2026-08-18 - Town Council Work Session

00:34I'm Just

13:13Good afternoon everyone.

13:18started by standing

13:25to the flag of the United States of

13:27America and to the republic for it

13:29stands one nation [clears throat]

13:31under God indivisible with liberty and

13:33justice for all

13:41your gohead

13:45agenda

13:46Changing license

13:5625

14:03>> I'll make a motion with one note just to

14:05say that as always whenever you see

14:08these sort of these sort of changes on

14:10the agenda it's usually not because

14:11we're adding stuff it's because we

14:13recognize we are biting off for

14:18I move

14:19second.

14:27I just want to make one introduction. I

14:29have special guest

14:33Apex High School

14:37also did the same

14:41time too many hours. He's got to get in

14:44close right now.

14:50Safety. Sorry.

15:03>> All right. Thank you, mayor. Thank you,

15:05council. We're going to dive right in.

15:07We have uh as council member Gray

15:10alluded to, we have a robust agenda and

15:12not a ton of time. The goal just to

15:15maybe help set expectations on time. We

15:17feel like you need at least an hour to

15:19talk about the building customer service

15:21piece. So, we're hoping to get through

15:23items two and three. Two I think will be

15:25quick. I know we have Mr. Car here from

15:27Rotary that's going to say a couple

15:28things. We're hoping to get through two

15:30and three and get into that billing

15:32issue. So, you're good. I'll dive in on

15:36Christmas update. We've got Lisa listed

15:38here. She's here to support if I have

15:40questions. I just got to give a quick

15:42overview and then ask Mr.

15:46So we will uh start in the the parade

15:49since we last spoke. The two big

15:52questions were the route and then any

15:55insurance issues related to that route.

15:58Route the parade will be as has been in

16:02the past through downtown. We don't know

16:04exactly what the condition roadway will

16:07be if one lane will be open or two

16:09lanes. We know at least one will be

16:10open. Uh so we're planning as if only

16:13one lane will be open and the size

16:16constraints that were I think Mr.

16:18Carmarmac said about eight floats that

16:20potentially would have to shrink down or

16:23change. My understanding is that maybe

16:25four have already acknowledged a change.

16:27We're still working with the other four,

16:29but they're still working the other

16:30four. Not that there's an issue, it's

16:32just working through logistics. Uh so

16:34any float that could not go if it was

16:36down to one lane you couldn't make the

16:37size constraints it would then turn off

16:40on Saunders and that would be the only

16:42divergent point of the parade route. So

16:45we feel like that may impact up to four

16:48floats now where we are so not a large

16:50number of but at the end of the day it

16:52may be no floats if those four can

16:54change or if both lanes end up being

16:56open at the time. So that's route and

16:59logistics. The other piece related to

17:01insurance and I'm sure Mr. product will

17:03talk about this. It's my understanding

17:04that their insurance provider, they've

17:06worked with our contractor and gotten

17:08the language all together and we're good

17:10to go on the insurance side. We'll turn

17:12it over to Mr. Carmarmac to address

17:15that. Come on up if you want. Whatever

17:18you're comfortable with. You have back

17:19there.

17:28So, thank you for this opportunity.

17:30Thank you for everybody's help to kind

17:32of get here. Um, I'll just briefly touch

17:36y'all got a big agenda. Um, we have

17:39worked with the insurance company. Um,

17:41we were prepared for that to be a more

17:43difficult conversation, but that was

17:45surprisingly easy. So, we appreciate the

17:47contractor knowing the situation working

17:49with us. Um, so that literally is a

17:52twohour type raification. So, that's

17:54that's done. We just got to ask for the

17:57paperwork to be done and the insurance

17:59[clears throat] company said they can do

18:00that in a one business day. So that's

18:03the only thing. But we're we're looking

18:06good shape. We're planning to open up

18:08registration on September 7th if we get

18:11the go ahead. Um I'm actually going down

18:13to Friendship High School this

18:16afternoon, this evening. We're going to

18:17mock up a marching band going through

18:20the current route as it sits right now.

18:22So, we're going to see what that looks

18:25like so we can inform the bands as to

18:27what we see and what we can anticipate.

18:29So, we appreciate Apex Friendship being

18:32willing to uh be that mockup holder for

18:35us. Um, but other than that, if I if I

18:38take a moment and just couple of new

18:40things or a couple of things is this

18:42year we're gonna one of the local

18:44businesses has reached out to us and

18:47we're going to have a sponsor for the

18:49Christmas parade that will dramatically

18:52increase the amount the Rotary Club's

18:54able to give to the nonpus. So, that

18:57will be announced here shortly. But, um,

19:00one of our local businesses was

19:02graciously came to us and how can we be

19:04a part of it? So that would increase our

19:06giving. Uh

19:08has reached out to us again. They want

19:10to participate. Um when we first started

19:12this last year was the first time we did

19:14this and

19:17expectations were kind of low for what

19:20feedback we would get. They were maybe

19:23we could get 2,000 or so people. Their

19:26data shows that on the night of the

19:28Christmas parade itself, we had 6,3 thou

19:316,300

19:33unique visitors live watching the parade

19:37and they've had since another 2,200

19:40view it in on YouTube. So we're at 8,500

19:45people.

19:46So um that has caught their attention.

19:49And

19:51to put that into perspective, that

19:53almost doubles what some of the other

19:56local agencies or the local other

19:59municipalities have done. So in

20:01perspective, we kind of double that. So

20:03that kind of raised their attention,

20:07but other than that, we look good.

20:09Hopefully we can progress downtown. But

20:12thank you.

20:13>> Thank you. And I want to say, you know,

20:16it's interest you brought up the

20:17sponsors and

20:23special

20:28and the day are open. I'm not surprised

20:30everybody has

20:32a good day. Any questions for Miss Car?

20:37What's the next steps?

20:39>> Uh so next steps said the parade will

20:42open up on the seventh. So from a

20:44logistics

20:46mention next steps. Well, I think we're

20:48waiting till October just

20:55found

20:57it by

21:01um we've got everything scheduled for

21:05either way.

21:10Make sure we can go forward, but we've

21:12got planned um to sort of make sure you

21:15got all the situations.

21:18I think we're going to be

21:26either way.

21:28>> Thank you so much for that. So

21:32today

21:33>> right now the the expectation is that

21:35we're going forward as normal with the

21:37break with the slight modifications that

21:39had to talk about with the potential

21:40before but everything else is business

21:43as usual from our perspective group.

21:47A couple questions.

21:50Some of the concern of this member was a

21:53contractor

21:54construction zone about liability.

21:57You're talking about insurance. Does

21:58that take care of now or we're good

22:00there?

22:01>> Yeah. Yes. Um they looked at our general

22:04insurance policy that we have and that

22:08made met their needs. Um as as part of

22:10policy, we had the town as an additional

22:13insurer. So they just wanted to add the

22:16contractors additional insure as well as

22:18the county

22:18>> right

22:19>> but they were comfortable with our

22:20liability policy as it sets without any

22:22change

22:23>> and the other kind of question I have is

22:25let's assume that we have one side

22:28>> as it is bigger today so I guess the

22:31west side is still is still closed or

22:35you know so would we prevent spectators

22:38from being tied so they had between us

22:42so they're not

22:46It kind of depends on how much I know

22:48that

22:52certain things

22:55about that but it's kind of depend

23:06but as soon as we have a better sense

23:09where we're going to be in summer then

23:11we'll be satisf

23:13or cannot we do not think there's going

23:14to be that much of a impact last year

23:18let me sit on that small little strip at

23:21the five for ADA so we are you know

23:24going to possibly open that up possibly

23:27not we did go ahead and we have the

23:30bleach again uh that we got so we feel

23:32like we're not that much um it'll just

23:35be a safety concern and it's really

23:37going to come down to where are

23:42We're we're proceeding that's why the

23:44department seeing that the worst case

23:46condition is now we could have great

23:50tomorrow. We're assuming that's the

23:51worst case condition. If it opens up,

23:54great. Wonderful. But

23:57that concept

24:03on that

24:08motion session

24:17session

51:17All

51:37right, we're ready.

51:42All right, we're back in session.

51:49All right. Yes, sir. So, if you're good,

51:51we're gonna hit item number four. So,

51:54I'm gonna turn it over to Sean and John

51:57who have a presentation.

51:59It's Sean. You can start us off.

52:01>> Yeah, I'll kick off. John's gonna

52:04council John's going to do most of the

52:07um discussion to start with and then

52:08I'll jump in and we'll go back to

52:10gentlemen. Uh we just we want to give

52:12you an update of where we are um with

52:14utility billing as it relates this is

52:16primarily as it relates to the past two

52:18accounts and then kind of show you the

52:20numbers and then discuss what challenges

52:22we're we see that are coming up and we

52:24want to go through based off trying to

52:26get back to standard procedures. Um, and

52:28then we also want to go into as we've

52:30gone through this, it's been a great

52:31learning experience to discuss what we

52:33want to change in kind of that customer

52:35service policy think practices

52:37procedures. And so we want to go over

52:38some of those things that we're putting

52:39together to change eventually we'll

52:41bring to you in a full policy program uh

52:43manual. Uh, and then some more immediate

52:46for some direction on some more

52:47immediate uh process pieces that we

52:51would like to change and we want to make

52:52sure we got some uh some buying

52:54consensus from the group before we do

52:56that. So with that, John, I'll just hold

52:58through just let me know when you look

53:00through on each one. But this this just

53:02kind of outlines what I just mentioned

53:04to you. We're going to do go to pass

53:05through accounts plan response. This is

53:08coming up and then some of the proposed

53:10changes.

53:12Um I do want to point out this stays the

53:15same. This really is what we're we're

53:17focused on working off of in terms of

53:19the purpose and our guiding principles

53:20as we work through this. um making sure

53:23that it's about making sure we're um

53:26understanding our customers needs,

53:28working with them best we can and still

53:29fulfilling our responsibility to the

53:31town. Both there's a legal

53:33responsibility and you know and

53:34obligation um to the the management

53:37side. With that, I'll let John give you

53:40some updates on the numbers.

53:43>> Uh okay. So, um, these are all, you

53:47know, as of about two week two weeks ago

53:50data. Um, we have 30,883

53:54active customer accounts as of August.

53:56We have 4,000 customers who have passed

53:58due number.

54:003,600 of those are residential accounts.

54:02A little under 400 are commercial

54:04accounts. Uh, I give you some data on

54:07like what's the maximum what's the

54:09average pass due amount. Um, we have

54:12some residential customers who are quite

54:14large. That $19,000 is a little bit of

54:16an outlier. It drops down to 12, the

54:19next next highest one. The average on C

54:22the average on our residential account

54:23is $1,100

54:26and then $1,800 for commercial for the

54:29total pass number. That's about 4.7

54:32million. Um, it's about 1.9 is kind of

54:36what I might call medium-term pass due.

54:38It's between 30 and 90 days and then we

54:41have a little under three million is

54:43that long-term this is something that's

54:45been owed to the town for more than 90

54:47days.

54:48This those totals don't include the

54:50payment plans which are

54:55so payment plans a little over 500

54:58payment plans. Um only about $1.2

55:01million was the ending balance as of

55:03July 31st.

55:05>> [clears throat]

55:05>> The vast majority of those are

55:07residential customers. We've only had

55:09about 10 commercials customers sign up

55:12for payment plans. Um just as a

55:15historical note, we've not typically

55:17engaged in this practice. So operating

55:20in a pretty unusual scenario here. So

55:23that follows. Uh we have had 39

55:25customers who voided their plans as of

55:28July 28. That was mostly due to

55:30non-payment mispayments or

55:32disconnections. is what I mean by

55:33disconnections which is they signed up

55:34for a payment plan for a couple of

55:36months and then moved out of Apex. Um so

55:40in those cases we consider that plan

55:42void because they're not going to be

55:44able to make payments after

55:46>> in that case what is our

55:49requirement and or possibility to cover

55:56we are still aware that somebody owns

55:58money.

56:00So, are we still legally bound to go

56:02pursue those payments? And if so, how?

56:05>> So, there's [clears throat]

56:07three things we can do. Two of which we

56:10are already doing. The first is we are a

56:14member of a it's a consortium that it's

56:16a service provider for like essentially

56:19bad debt for utilities. We use it for

56:21credit checks, things of that nature.

56:23But the other option we can do is we can

56:25send it to them. And so let's say they

56:27move out of Apex, they move into another

56:28utility service that also uses this

56:31portal. You know, we say they left Apex

56:34owing us $3,000. They try to establish

56:37service in Holly Springs just as a

56:40random stone road. Uh Holly Springs

56:43would be able to see that they owed the

56:44town money and then that would be a

56:46factor in whether or not Holly Springs

56:47established service. They might, you

56:50know, require a higher deposit. They

56:52might require them to get whole with us

56:54before. And the third thing we can do is

56:56we can refer to private debt collector

56:58agencies which is something the town

57:00hasn't really done in a while. So we're

57:02doing the and the last one is we send it

57:04to state debt set off which is basically

57:07like a garnishment service operated by

57:09the state. If they're owed any money by

57:11the state um before the state will pay

57:14them. The state would pay us is

57:16basically.

57:17So they go out and they they they owe us

57:21$3,000. They buy a lottery ticket. They

57:23win. and they turn it into the lottery

57:24commission. The state's going to garnish

57:27the lottery winnings and pay the tiff to

57:29make us say

57:32>> which out of those three are we doing?

57:34>> We refer them to, you know, basically a

57:37network of other utility providers and

57:39we send it to debt. The only part we

57:41haven't we haven't done is actually look

57:43for private debt collector.

57:46We sell it to private debt collectors

57:48out

57:51>> whether give me a sense as to whether

57:56that is utility providers.

58:00>> My understanding is that's pretty

58:01unusual because you would disconnect to

58:03enforce collections long before it got

58:04to

58:08>> but the situation you didn't have that

58:11option. So, how much uh what's the

58:15balance associated with security?

58:17>> Uh it was only about $77,000

58:20that it was pretty low. It was a fairly

58:23small portion.

58:24>> And so for those that were reported

58:26because they didn't make payments, are

58:27they included in the numbers above?

58:29>> No.

58:31>> That ending number is the actual ending

58:33balance of payment plans that are

58:35established.

58:36>> Uh I know the numbers are

58:39>> Oh, uh no, no, those are just active

58:41customers.

58:42We don't report

58:46to credit.

58:48>> Well, that is something. Yeah, that's a

58:49part of the

58:53>> Yeah.

58:54>> Yeah. So, people actually hear that they

58:57affect their credit score.

59:00>> Yeah. Probably should think.

59:02>> Yeah.

59:05>> I know we don't

59:15questions or thoughts on so that's where

59:17we are what the uncollected debt is the

59:20past two balances where we are um so

59:23what I want to go into now are these are

59:26some of the challenges that well we've

59:29worked through a lot but we've had two

59:31years now where we have we have standard

59:33process the first late fees have been

59:34instituted they were on this the most

59:36recent cycle one bill beginning this

59:38month that went out that'll be on the

59:40cycle too that is wrapping up now. Um,

59:43so those late fees are going on. That's

59:45one, you know, it's 1% of bill. That's

59:47what late fees are. Um, but that also

59:50kicks off going toward potential

59:52disconnects for non-payment. Um, and

59:55that the first cycle from that that

59:58would happen would be the end of

59:59September. So, it's it's just about a

1:00:0190-day window for them. Um, on on that

1:00:05process,

1:00:06what we are preparing for is you've seen

1:00:11you see, let's see, let me go back to

1:00:12this. If you see this number here, um

1:00:16these are you know these this is a past

1:00:18two amount. These are people that have

1:00:19not set up hand plans even though we've

1:00:22been discussing this for seven months

1:00:24now since February at least you know

1:00:27February you know so six months. Um so

1:00:31we and we've put information out sent

1:00:34through uh bill inserts. It's been on

1:00:36social media. It's been newsletter. We

1:00:39we sent out about payment plans. What it

1:00:40means get on payment plan. We'll

1:00:42continue not to do disconnect, not to

1:00:44break. Um but you see the number of

1:00:48customers here. Uh primarily there's

1:00:50ones over 90 days. That's that's what's

1:00:52kicking into the disconnect. So you're

1:00:54looking at about 1,800, [clears throat]

1:00:56you know, 144 businesses, 1660 on the

1:01:01residents that are going to be subject

1:01:02for dispens.

1:01:04Um well, depending on the dollar amount,

1:01:07it's actually a little bit smaller, but

1:01:09um we we have a dollar amount threshold

1:01:11as well over the 90 days. Um but you

1:01:13look at some of those numbers, those

1:01:15maximums, that's the amount due and even

1:01:17the averages. Um, so you can see that

1:01:20the maximums are really are outliers

1:01:21based on the averages are much lower

1:01:23than that. But that if if a resident

1:01:27comes and tries to set up a 12-month

1:01:29payment plan for $19,000,

1:01:33they're still not going to be able to

1:01:34make payment and they're still going to

1:01:36end up in a situation where they're

1:01:38subject and that's a concern for us. Our

1:01:41goal is not to disconnect service. Our

1:01:43goal is to provide

1:01:46is provide clean reliable water, safe,

1:01:49reliable energy and then there's paper

1:01:52for the use of that service. That's

1:01:55that's our that service provision is

1:01:58what we're out. It's not disconnect.

1:02:01So, we're trying to work through what

1:02:02that looks like. um knowing that we do

1:02:05have a responsibility and legal

1:02:06obligation to collect um to the best of

1:02:09our ability and for the um and for the

1:02:13sustainability of the operation of

1:02:14business operation that enterprise. So,

1:02:17we're trying to keep this in mind to be

1:02:18prepared for what we are potentially

1:02:21running into when the dis.

1:02:24We've got a lot of folks that are going

1:02:26to be, you know, if you owe if you owe

1:02:29$1,000, it might be a little more

1:02:31manageable, right? You know, you're a

1:02:33little that's adding a little less than

1:02:34$100 a month on a on your on top of your

1:02:37regular bill for 12 months. If you owe,

1:02:40you know, $12,000

1:02:42over, you know, a year, they'll push

1:02:45people not going to be able to afford an

1:02:47extra thousand on top of the reg.

1:02:51So,

1:02:51>> they're not going to make a payment and

1:02:53they're going to fall into this

1:02:54connection right now. That would be

1:02:55about a thousand customers.

1:02:57>> I don't want to make assumptions to what

1:02:58people can and cannot afford, right? If

1:03:00you write off the $9,000 utility bill,

1:03:04like there's something on the other end

1:03:05of that that lot of energy, right?

1:03:08That's your regular consumption, you

1:03:11probably have something to back that up,

1:03:13right? And so I I appreciate that we're

1:03:16trying to the edge basis of what we

1:03:19might run into. Um, but I don't want to

1:03:22make an assumption just because somebody

1:03:24owes $12,000 they cannot pay the payment

1:03:28plan somebody

1:03:33understood and heard because we're in

1:03:35the same boat that from staff standpoint

1:03:37we we we don't know we don't want to

1:03:39make that assumption either which is why

1:03:41I want to what I'm going to walk through

1:03:42here is what we've identified as our

1:03:44potential challenges and what we have

1:03:45set up set our goals and then through

1:03:47the process that we're looking at

1:03:48because the idea is we do know there are

1:03:50fols out there that should can pay and

1:03:53should pay and so we have that and then

1:03:55but at the same time we're keeping in

1:03:56mind the people that are for whatever

1:03:58reason in the situation and so here just

1:04:01I'm going to present to you what our

1:04:03plannings and what how we're working

1:04:05through this to help as many people as

1:04:09possible stay connected while collecting

1:04:11the payments that that so we're seeking

1:04:13that balance so here's the that that

1:04:17kind of sets up the dilemma they're

1:04:18working force you can see these six

1:04:20these Five points here. It is about

1:04:22balancing. That's connection in the

1:04:24collections. Um and we we realize that

1:04:26there's large psy amounts. There's

1:04:28payment plan limitations and then

1:04:30there's that risk of disconnection both

1:04:32for in terms of from both sides. There's

1:04:35a risk of customers getting disconnected

1:04:36not have service and then there's a risk

1:04:39for us or business side disconnection

1:04:40which John just mentioned if we can't

1:04:42collect at some point. Um and that goes

1:04:45into the last one too. you know, the

1:04:47customer ability recovery. If a renter

1:04:50just disconnects and goes at this point,

1:04:52um, you know, because we've had two

1:04:54years of no disconnections, you we've

1:04:57increased that that liability, that

1:04:59potential risk of not collecting.

1:05:01Normally, like John mentioned, this

1:05:03happens a lot sooner and so that you you

1:05:05minimize that risk. We want to get back

1:05:07to that um to minimize that risk and

1:05:09also minimize what a customer what

1:05:11someone owes. They don't want to owe a

1:05:13lot either. I mean, so trying to check

1:05:15there. Um, for each of these, you can

1:05:16see there have goals. I'm sorry, it's a

1:05:18little smaller. Um, but trying to uh

1:05:21have goals about how we want to be

1:05:23consistent in what our plan is, making

1:05:25sure we're providing opportunities, um,

1:05:28that they're reasonable and avoiding

1:05:30disconnections where all possible. Um,

1:05:32but making sure

1:05:35going into each of those,

1:05:38here's what we have. So, this is that

1:05:39first one. um establishing a consistent

1:05:42and equitable approach. Uh just letting

1:05:45you know what we've done. We we're

1:05:46offering interest repayment plans. We've

1:05:48been that's been set up for like I said

1:05:51almost, you know, half a year now or

1:05:52more. Um this is for customers with past

1:05:56two balances. It's just it's been out

1:05:58there. Set up the payment plan. Stay

1:06:00current on it. You won't be subject to

1:06:01late fees. You won't be subject to

1:06:03discount. That's what we're encouraging

1:06:05people to do. But you saw we've only we

1:06:07have about 500 people out of 4,000

1:06:11really out of the main one's the 90 days

1:06:13right now is our threshold. So we have

1:06:14about 1,800 um so we had a little over

1:06:18we have 1,800 people who have not set up

1:06:20payment plans that are subject you

1:06:22potentially subject to disconnect a

1:06:24thousand right it was 1100 I think is

1:06:26our number that's subject to

1:06:27disconnection based off of their dollar

1:06:29threshold and the number of days pass

1:06:32through they they have so setting up the

1:06:35payment plans Um, you know, we've been

1:06:38trying to encourage you getting these

1:06:40plans now. Don't wait till you're ready

1:06:41to be cut off because that's the

1:06:43concern. That's the dilemma, right? We

1:06:44don't want to cut you off, but you had

1:06:45to set the payment plan and now you're

1:06:47coming one setting up, but then you may

1:06:49not even be able to stay current on that

1:06:50plan. Um, and then maintaining that plan

1:06:54keeps them avoiding or keeps them from

1:06:56being disconnected and helps them late

1:06:58fees. Um,

1:07:00we are trying to provide these

1:07:02opportunities. again been offering this

1:07:04since since February. Um for the

1:07:07disconnection, we do have a calendar in

1:07:09place and you can see the numbers up

1:07:11there. That's the not counting them

1:07:13actually getting the bill and all the

1:07:15information being on the bill that would

1:07:16count as an as a notice as well. These

1:07:21these other four notices up here are

1:07:23when we're going to send out letters,

1:07:25make phone uh have uh we have robocalls

1:07:27set up. They can also receive email and

1:07:29text if it's been set up in the system.

1:07:31So, we are providing notices for when uh

1:07:34folks need to uh make a payment, set up

1:07:37a payment plan um before disconnection

1:07:40happens.

1:07:42Go not to disconnected, but um and then

1:07:45we're and we are working with partners

1:07:47to connect them to assistance programs.

1:07:49Um again, recognizing that there are

1:07:51some folks that may be in a different

1:07:53situation um than others. There are

1:07:55we've had people come in and just pay

1:07:57off their the full thing. has happened,

1:07:59but we also know there's going to be

1:08:00people that come in. We don't know the

1:08:02circumstances. Trying to be trying to be

1:08:05understanding of that. Um, and they they

1:08:08may certainly qualify and need some

1:08:10assistance. We're trying to make sure we

1:08:12get that in place for their benefit and

1:08:14and it's definitely a mutual benefit.

1:08:18Um,

1:08:20trying to provide time to resolve these

1:08:22past two balances. Um, we have 12

1:08:25months. That's what we've been offering.

1:08:28uh we do have the capability now to

1:08:30extend that. I don't we we don't we

1:08:35don't recommend that that apply to every

1:08:37single account, but there are certain

1:08:39accounts that we understand that it may

1:08:41need to be longer than that. And the new

1:08:43system does allow us to do that. Um so

1:08:46we can talk about about that a little a

1:08:48little bit more. Um we've also right now

1:08:52what we're doing is what we want to do.

1:08:54These are things I'm telling you what we

1:08:55want to do. make sure we for those we've

1:08:58had some folks that they've set up

1:08:59payment plans. They may make

1:09:00appointments for a while then they miss

1:09:01payment or two and try and get back on.

1:09:04Um or we have ones that that well

1:09:08they're they're making a payment plans

1:09:09but it's it's been a lot for them you

1:09:12know trying to work through it and maybe

1:09:13now if they restructure it right they

1:09:15maybe they were on it for maybe they had

1:09:17a six or nine month payment plan set up

1:09:19hey if I can get the rest on 12 month

1:09:21I'll be fine and that makes sure that

1:09:23they that enables them to keep up and

1:09:26stay current. That's what we want as

1:09:27well, that that compliance piece. Um,

1:09:30for those people that are in payment

1:09:31plans and it's kind of a we're willing

1:09:34to do kind of a one time like

1:09:35restructure refinancing of that now.

1:09:37Hey, make a payment, get get set up. We

1:09:40want you to be able to be on a plan that

1:09:42you can afford that you can make. So,

1:09:44we're offering that to the want to offer

1:09:45that to people that are on payment plans

1:09:47now. And then for those that um that get

1:09:52on it um get on them now and as we go

1:09:56into the disconnects, we want to be

1:09:58mindful like things happen. Get it. Um

1:10:01we can't keep doing that. It's how we

1:10:02got in the situation we're in. Uh but

1:10:04there may be, you know, that first time

1:10:06through, hey, you've been making

1:10:07payments for three or four months, you

1:10:09miss one. Technically, it would be

1:10:12you're off the payment plan, you're such

1:10:14a disconnect. Okay, let's get, you know,

1:10:16things happen. Let's get you set back

1:10:18up. Allow for that that one time

1:10:20disruption and trying to be trying to

1:10:22work work with people as we can with but

1:10:25limitations on how often. Sorry. So, um

1:10:30that's that's again that's the

1:10:32reasonable time that we're trying to

1:10:34work through to provide this. We want to

1:10:35get we want to get caught back up as

1:10:37quick as we can to but knowing it's

1:10:38going to take a year or more. people

1:10:42that slide. Um the 12 months current

1:10:45payment plan is already extended from

1:10:48what we used to do which are six month

1:10:50plans. Correct.

1:10:51>> Right. That's right.

1:10:52>> So we're already giving people six

1:10:54months grace periods given the situation

1:10:57that we're want to kind of keep that in

1:10:59mind that we don't keep

1:11:01>> extending that timeline. Uh you know I'm

1:11:05I want to be sensitive to the people

1:11:06that are truly

1:11:09in financial hardship.

1:11:11Right. But let's recognize that the vast

1:11:14majority of people that we're talking

1:11:15about have chosen to be in the situation

1:11:19by willingly not making payments when

1:11:22they know they knew they owe the town

1:11:25for their electric service.

1:11:27>> So I want to be a little bit careful by

1:11:31making it too loose, right? Because

1:11:34these are, you know, again, vast

1:11:37majority, right? Certainly there's

1:11:39people that are truly under financial

1:11:40hardship, but the vast majority of the

1:11:42accounts that we're talking about, this

1:11:45is a situation of their own.

1:11:48>> Yeah. And the largest amounts are

1:11:50accounts that have made payments in 20

1:11:53to 24 months. And I mean, and that's

1:11:55that's that's where we those are the

1:11:57largest ones, but you saw the average

1:11:59was about $1,100 or so.

1:12:02That's one that we would it should say

1:12:0412 months or or less deposited. So the

1:12:08ones that are $6,000,

1:12:13$500,

1:12:14you're asking them to take on another

1:12:16car payment, something that we're trying

1:12:19to be, we want to make sure we get how

1:12:21do we keep them from being disconnected,

1:12:22I'll get if it's not a feasible payment

1:12:24for me. So we're trying to find that

1:12:27balance of making sure it's something

1:12:28that they can live with and and we can

1:12:30live with to get where we need to be.

1:12:33So, how how do we set the criteria to

1:12:35make sure that we this is an equitable

1:12:39solution and we're not taking this like

1:12:41you know one case at a time uh because

1:12:44there needs to be some rules of the road

1:12:47to

1:12:47>> and we're working through what what

1:12:49those look like and so we have some

1:12:51guidelines that we we have prepared um

1:12:55and trying to and part of this is to get

1:12:58some feedback from council what you're

1:12:59comfortable with and also understand

1:13:01where head and what's considered brief

1:13:03And so you know internally as we've

1:13:05discussed the weekly standing whatever

1:13:09um standing weekly meeting if not more

1:13:12to go over these things and it's so if

1:13:14it's hey if it's say $2,400 if you got

1:13:18$2,400 or less we're talking a 12 month

1:13:22if you got over that we can start

1:13:25talking a little bit longer. um and just

1:13:28trying to decide is $200 extra on top of

1:13:31someone's bill a reasonable amount is

1:13:33yeah where do you draw the line on that

1:13:34you know

1:13:36we can't go look we can't keep going out

1:13:38years and years on

1:13:40>> and so is that based because like $200

1:13:43is a very friendly number right

1:13:46>> we do not have the ability

1:13:48and and I would say I don't know that we

1:13:51want to get into income based on setting

1:13:53up payment plans um

1:13:57you know either because they're not

1:14:00trying to just provide service. We're

1:14:01not providing grants or anything. And so

1:14:05the assistance programs that are set up

1:14:08are income based based on your income.

1:14:11I'll touch on some of those to kind of

1:14:13help where those are here that offset

1:14:15some of that.

1:14:18Um

1:14:20so and then again trying to avoid

1:14:23disconnection

1:14:24getting back to standard operating

1:14:26procedures. So in part of this again

1:14:28right now temporarily

1:14:31someone suspending what formal

1:14:33operations would be and where we want to

1:14:34be in the future if you get

1:14:36disconnected. So we get to that point

1:14:38they haven't made a payment plan they

1:14:39haven't set a pay plan to be they just

1:14:42haven't made their payments and they're

1:14:43disconnected. the past policy in the

1:14:46standard policy just like everywhere

1:14:49utilities is to get reconnected you got

1:14:50to pay your bill

1:14:53and that's where we eventually want to

1:14:55get back to and again if you're if

1:14:57you're cutting off with this with a

1:14:58shorter window that balance should be

1:15:00hopefully something that's man right but

1:15:02now we've got two years worth or

1:15:03something and so if we cut that person

1:15:06off that has a $19,000 balance they're

1:15:08not coming up with 1800

1:15:11and so we want so our go we want to

1:15:14something we we do if you're going to

1:15:16get reconnected. It's not oh we're just

1:15:18reconnecting you need to have something

1:15:20but a little discretion on what that is.

1:15:22So we'd like to start with can you pay

1:15:25some people will be able to pay full and

1:15:27that's that's ideal but can you at least

1:15:30can you pay half you know can you pay

1:15:31half can you pay something and and the

1:15:33bottom line will be to get something to

1:15:36reestablish connection you need to pay

1:15:38some sort of lump sum and you need to

1:15:40get

1:15:42like it's not going to be keep going

1:15:43like if you want to do reconnection

1:15:45staff established get on a payment plan

1:15:47and make the lump payment and get that

1:15:49amount. So trying to make sure we get

1:15:50something trying to make sure we get

1:15:52people on a payment plan. Um and then we

1:15:55have the uh what we would also typically

1:15:57when you reconnect there's a service

1:15:59charge kind of get everything set back

1:16:00up when you go through reconnect all

1:16:02that. Right now we would wait that you

1:16:05wave that first time that fee that first

1:16:07time connected as well. It's a nominal

1:16:10fee. Um but it does help that recover

1:16:13that cost is required. But again, just

1:16:15trying to get them reconnected about

1:16:17that first time through.

1:16:20Um, and then, you know, establishing

1:16:23effective collect balances after service

1:16:25ends. This is a little bit to what John

1:16:26was talking about earlier. This is a

1:16:28little it's come a little bit harder

1:16:29just because of the amounts. Um, but we

1:16:32want to make sure that look, we're

1:16:33getting accurate final final time bills

1:16:35out when they they owe it and if it

1:16:37needs to be sent to debt set off or

1:16:39other things that we have that option.

1:16:41Um the other piece is internally you

1:16:44have sometimes you have people that are

1:16:45just moving down the street and

1:16:47technically it's a different account in

1:16:49a new location, different service

1:16:51address. In the past it's been you got

1:16:53to pay this you got to close this

1:16:55account out pay it in full and then move

1:16:57our new system we can transfer that that

1:17:00balance in that account. And so right

1:17:01now, if someone's moving down the street

1:17:04and they're carrying balance, if they've

1:17:05been making their payments and they're,

1:17:06you know, they're they're staying up, we

1:17:08would allow them to carry that transfer

1:17:10with them and just be added to that. Um,

1:17:12so not trying to, you know, we want to

1:17:14make not put them in an extra hardship

1:17:16just because they're happy. And now this

1:17:18would be people again, they're on

1:17:19payment plans, have been making

1:17:20payments, um, and they're trying to, you

1:17:23know, get if they if they're moving and

1:17:26they got a back payment, it would be

1:17:28just like getting a reconnection. You

1:17:29need to make a payment. You need to get

1:17:31on plan and then we can transfer it. But

1:17:35you can't because you can't leave just

1:17:37oh I'm moving now my account behind as

1:17:40work. You're tied to that account and

1:17:42you're in our system. So

1:17:43>> we uh legally allow

1:17:47property for us in

1:17:50>> I'd have to check on utilities. Brian I

1:17:53don't know.

1:17:55Not not a great action

1:17:57civil action. He probably still I mean

1:18:00he went to court

1:18:14on property

1:18:16to check that

1:18:20>> but renters also

1:18:23>> renters will be an issue on that one

1:18:24because we cannot legally hold the

1:18:26property handler unless they are also

1:18:29the contracted party. So if the services

1:18:32in the renters's name

1:18:34then we don't have we don't even really

1:18:37have a civil action to guess this

1:18:40problem

1:18:42because people move

1:18:48the longer this

1:18:51is less

1:18:53I'm just wondering if there's other

1:18:55protections in place.

1:19:00Yeah, I don't believe we're able to put

1:19:01a lean on the property. I mean, the

1:19:03mechanics on the statute is

1:19:06>> Yeah, it's it's it's very specific and I

1:19:13g

1:19:17we don't we don't have a we don't have a

1:19:18statuto that

1:19:21process

1:19:22>> the financial risk management Mr. right

1:19:24now is extending this where it is right

1:19:26now. Right, truncating we're not moving

1:19:28further. That's why we're council

1:19:32is put move back towards standard

1:19:33operating procedures the late fees

1:19:36disconnects and for the utility the

1:19:38disconnect is your primary and most

1:19:42effective tool of compelling payment.

1:19:45And so that's where that's what

1:19:47typically works. That's what we go

1:19:49through. business, you don't usually

1:19:50have a 20 month, four month period of of

1:19:54time where people make them make

1:19:55payments at all. And so we're we're

1:20:00feeling that we're trying to back

1:20:02through that regardless of their reason

1:20:05or uh for not making things.

1:20:09Um

1:20:10>> I have one question. Can you go? Yeah.

1:20:14that uh refer eligible balances to state

1:20:19that set up. Can you uh explain how that

1:20:23that work?

1:20:25>> No, that's where but they got they they

1:20:27have a balance. That's where John

1:20:29mentioned we would send it to the state

1:20:30and they would garnish anything. So if

1:20:32they're owed state income tax and

1:20:35lottery, anything they come across that

1:20:36the states owe. So that that's the

1:20:38closest the collections that we do and

1:20:40that's common through municipalities and

1:20:42counties that have utility system

1:20:44authorities throughout the state. That's

1:20:46the most common sort of collection that

1:20:48we do. So it does go to another

1:20:52that's quasi collection agency if you go

1:20:54clearing house. So so we we do collect

1:20:57some back on that. It's just not like a

1:20:58one time thing.

1:21:00>> Okay. So um you mean the state can offer

1:21:04some compensation to the economy tax

1:21:08>> as it becomes available for that

1:21:12in a way but only when it comes only

1:21:14when it comes available for that

1:21:15individual the state does not go the

1:21:17state does not act like a like a debt

1:21:19collector they're not going out and

1:21:21doing it's where it comes up at a like I

1:21:25said a tax refund Johnny the example

1:21:27lottery something that the state would

1:21:28normally pay to that individual. If

1:21:32we've turned them their their name into

1:21:34state or to

1:21:37pay us instead of pay so

1:21:41amount

1:21:42>> it could be it just depends you know how

1:21:45lottery they got

1:21:52>> that's right I don't know yeah I don't

1:21:53know what the

1:21:57>> state

1:22:02and give it to you.

1:22:03>> Yeah. Do

1:22:04>> you have a sense of how much of that

1:22:06ends up being collectible when you go to

1:22:08state debt set off and how would that

1:22:11compare to private collection and how

1:22:13much it be worth?

1:22:16>> We only get like a couple hundred bucks

1:22:18a month from the state debt set off for

1:22:20all of the debts we've sent off

1:22:22>> in perpetuity. Really?

1:22:25>> Yeah. We don't we don't go

1:22:26>> several.

1:22:27>> Normally we don't have this much. That's

1:22:30not much. That's not

1:22:32>> guess how much the debt would sell for

1:22:35private collector.

1:22:38Then we don't then we'd have to look

1:22:41into what our

1:22:43legal

1:22:48I'd be interested see

1:22:52if the option is elect

1:23:07we do

1:23:08set out the statute and setting up the

1:23:10enterprises. I'll understand that u

1:23:14the risk created as stretches out

1:23:18to one where they realize hey I can just

1:23:21sort of just walk away

1:23:25or whatever and then just go to the st

1:23:31so it's interesting connected pain but

1:23:33the longer that stretches up um the more

1:23:36risk we take on

1:23:37collectible. And I know it's unusual,

1:23:41but it sounds like a private collection

1:23:42would keep it collectible longer. You

1:23:44know what I mean? Like it would

1:23:45eliminate almost that incentive

1:23:50eventually

1:23:53the ability to send it to state off.

1:24:00>> Let me generally you send it to death

1:24:03set off when you hit the statute of

1:24:04limitations on collecting it. So all of

1:24:07our services do have a statute of

1:24:09limitations. The town can enforce

1:24:10collections.

1:24:12Applying private property as well.

1:24:17>> It varies by service. Um

1:24:21sewer is the shortest at three years.

1:24:25>> The shortest

1:24:28I'm not sure what

1:24:31they're more than three years.

1:24:35No, we we'll investigate. We can

1:24:37investigate further. We'll get

1:24:40what are on the private side for now.

1:24:43Like just having to point. Can you hit

1:24:46on like internally what we're trying to

1:24:48do to make sure to create situations

1:24:50that keep people connected while making

1:24:52sure we get to make the motion to

1:24:55balance operation that we can that keeps

1:24:58people connected in Apex and keeps them

1:25:01able to pay so they're we're moving

1:25:03forward.

1:25:05So that's what we're working through.

1:25:07>> What happens if someone

1:25:10utility just in normal course of

1:25:12operation someone utility account dies

1:25:15we attempt to collect from the estate or

1:25:17we just write it off at that point?

1:25:23[clears throat]

1:25:23>> Well I guess I don't I don't know how

1:25:26uniform we have been about it but there

1:25:28have been some instances where we've

1:25:30gotten notice from an estates and

1:25:34the town attorney folks have helped me

1:25:36or help someone in finance do the

1:25:38paperwork to file against the incident.

1:25:40So that is an option but it's rare and

1:25:43it mostly it really depends on if we

1:25:45know the person's pastor.

1:25:54Um, so that's just kind of let you know

1:25:56what we're working through like what

1:25:58kind of the the challenge we see coming

1:26:00up with these imbalances and even in

1:26:03setting up payment plans like it's not

1:26:06we're going to have a people that may

1:26:08not be able to pay or stay current and

1:26:09then they're going to be subject to

1:26:10disconnect. So we're just want to walk

1:26:12you through how we're planning to

1:26:14address that, what

1:26:17what compromise we're working through

1:26:18with them at the same time trying to get

1:26:20keep them connected but get the payments

1:26:22that are owed. Um, so we know that this

1:26:24doesn't stretch out anymore. We already

1:26:27know it's 12 plus months now just to

1:26:29even get back to, you know, the current

1:26:32or get back to capturing that

1:26:35revenue at this point. So um the next

1:26:39part that we'll go over is some of the

1:26:41broader policy things that we're looking

1:26:43at um that we want to that we are

1:26:45implementing or want to change including

1:26:46kind of the temporary stuff and making

1:26:48sure you understand where we are now,

1:26:50what we're doing and see if you got any

1:26:51questions or thoughts on that.

1:26:53toward we want to be gi

1:26:59ask about two

1:27:02considerations that

1:27:05one is

1:27:09profiles of those types of customers.

1:27:12you know, you perhaps have one customer

1:27:15who's over 90 days and owes thousands

1:27:21and has been in no communication with

1:27:24the town. Um, and I imagine you have

1:27:28another profile of

1:27:32workingclass folks who that $200 is a

1:27:35killer for them. And yet perhaps there's

1:27:38some sort of communication. Again, I'm

1:27:39trying to find each end of the spectrum

1:27:41in terms of those what those profiles

1:27:42look like. we have to treat those

1:27:46equitably in terms of if you've got

1:27:48somebody who's in communication with you

1:27:50and for obviously the communication it

1:27:52could also fit um but I'm just looking

1:27:55at you're much more likely to collect at

1:27:57least some with someone who's in some

1:27:59sort of communication with you I would

1:28:01think and I would imagine the

1:28:03probability

1:28:05is significantly reduced

1:28:08if you're talking about someone who has

1:28:10never communicated with do we have

1:28:13handle those you know so

1:28:16legally and ethically we do not

1:28:18discriminate on how each customer

1:28:20service provider

1:28:24circumstances that come up there's

1:28:26customer service discretion in terms of

1:28:28how things can be can be handled and I

1:28:30say that that does again we're trying to

1:28:32establish the guidelines to be

1:28:34consistent to be to be equitable

1:28:37>> where we're going to what you're going

1:28:38to see get to is there's people that are

1:28:40working through it we know that and

1:28:42they're going But they're we're what

1:28:44we're presenting to you is ways that

1:28:46we're working to try and make sure that

1:28:49we get them in a situation that is

1:28:51manageable and they can get there and

1:28:53whether it's the payment plans, whether

1:28:54it's they make a payment and do the the

1:28:56payment plan and then bring that payment

1:28:58plan down. We're going to we'll get into

1:29:00some of the customer service piece just

1:29:01a couple slide or sorry customer

1:29:03assistance just a couple slides that

1:29:05helps offset. Um so working through them

1:29:08now that will be offered to everybody

1:29:10and then there's certain parameters

1:29:12around like say the customer assistance

1:29:13program or certain people will qualify.

1:29:16Um you will get to a point in this

1:29:19process as we laid out where we're

1:29:20helping them but then you the person

1:29:22that's not communicating when they get

1:29:25disconnected there is a final

1:29:26disconnect. That's what we want to make

1:29:28sure everybody's aware of is that we

1:29:30can't keep pushing the because

1:29:32eventually it means the demise of the

1:29:33whole opera of the whole enterprise and

1:29:35then then you're not serving the other

1:29:3929 30,000 customers that are you know

1:29:43like said the grand scheme of things we

1:29:44have about 1100 that right now would be

1:29:47cut off out of almost 31,000

1:29:50that's a small percentage wise but still

1:29:521100 people no one wants to cut off

1:29:56so Um, so percentage wise it's small,

1:30:00but we're still trying to make sure that

1:30:01we serve L residents, all customers. Um,

1:30:05and so we do work with our customers,

1:30:08but there are um there are because we we

1:30:11know what we do have. We we get to there

1:30:13are medical exceptions. There are

1:30:15circumstances that do allow for that

1:30:18that customer service discretion. Yeah.

1:30:20So, we're trying to outline what those

1:30:21are and then what's the ones that

1:30:23everybody doesn't know what's going on.

1:30:24And here's where here's the line. come

1:30:26to you can you can be what's what's owed

1:30:31or and part of what I'm pulling from is

1:30:33what council zig said earlier about just

1:30:35like if you racked up 20 grand in

1:30:38utility bills

1:30:41like they already have the facilities to

1:30:44draw that kind of capacity in the first

1:30:46place as opposed to

1:30:50home. Thank you.

1:30:54>> Okay. Uh so really we'll just this is

1:30:57just kind of a summary that we're trying

1:30:59to balance you know keeping people's

1:31:01power underwater running while also

1:31:03collecting what is owed to the town. Um

1:31:06you know we've talked through we've got

1:31:08significant past two balances. We need

1:31:10to balance flexibility with

1:31:11accountability. Um we do have the

1:31:14ability at least on the electric side to

1:31:16be able to you know if somebody gets

1:31:17back in good standing we can turn their

1:31:19power back on pretty quickly. It's

1:31:20remotely. We don't have to roll with

1:31:22truck out.

1:31:24Um, we've got these are the tools. Um,

1:31:26specifically it's, you know, we're we

1:31:29allow them to make partial payments. We

1:31:31let them sign up for payment plan. We're

1:31:33going to talk a little bit about a

1:31:34financial assistance program. We're

1:31:36going to let them restructure the debt.

1:31:38You know, if a 12 month if you can't you

1:31:40can't do, you know, $300, $400 extra per

1:31:44month, we cancel it and we start over on

1:31:46a new 12-month plan is kind of what

1:31:48we're thinking. Um, of course, and you

1:31:50know, we don't want to make a bad

1:31:51situation worse. We're talking about not

1:31:53doing the standard reconnection fee to

1:31:55charge somebody for the cost of

1:31:57reconnecting.

1:31:58This is just a summary slide. We're

1:32:01talking, you know, on the left here,

1:32:03short-term policy versus long-term

1:32:05policy. Shortterm, as we work through

1:32:07the problem, we've got, you know,

1:32:10disconnections would occur at $1,000

1:32:12rather than 500. That mostly that drops

1:32:15300 400 people off the list. Um, in the

1:32:18short term, if they keep not paying,

1:32:20they will be on in a future period. Um,

1:32:24the the disconnect, there is a

1:32:25disconnect between when the bill goes

1:32:27out and when somebody gets turned off.

1:32:29Under the current schedule, we're

1:32:30talking 84 days. Long term, the goal is

1:32:33we can get that down to 45 days between,

1:32:35you know, genuine past due gen. That's

1:32:38about assessing risk. How can we close

1:32:40the gap between somebody not paying and

1:32:43trying to collect?

1:32:45We're going to let it folks make a

1:32:46partial payment rather than do the full

1:32:48balance. We're talking through, you

1:32:51know, allowing residential customers to

1:32:52go up to a 24-month plan into some more

1:32:55extreme circumstances of financial

1:32:57hardship and letting commercial

1:32:59customers go up to 36 months. So, any

1:33:02questions about that? It's just kind of

1:33:03>> why why go back to long-term policy is

1:33:08residential only up to 12 months,

1:33:09commercial is not?

1:33:11>> Why is commercial allowed 12 more months

1:33:14or 50% the commercials are some of the

1:33:16bigger balances.

1:33:17>> So it's

1:33:18>> also commercial entities I imagine.

1:33:23We'll take this. We'll take those

1:33:25guidance.

1:33:25>> I'm just wondering what the rale is

1:33:29allowing commercial%

1:33:31extension on res.

1:33:34>> It's mostly about amortizing it. Um,

1:33:38the one of the the biggest customer

1:33:40element is the biggest commercial

1:33:41customer we had that owed us like almost

1:33:43$49 $50,000.

1:33:45We did sign them up for a 12-month

1:33:47payment plan and I think maybe one month

1:33:49went by before they said it was a going

1:33:51concern for their business

1:33:53>> because it

1:33:54>> was a going concern for their business,

1:33:56>> additional because it was thousands

1:34:00because we were trying to advertise 50

1:34:02grand over 12 months.

1:34:09by

1:34:11the thing is that you know think about a

1:34:13business definitely with a business

1:34:15versus a resident like we you with a

1:34:17business you will not have collection

1:34:20option

1:34:21>> right and so if they owe they owe4,000

1:34:25$40,000 you know 4,000 a month over over

1:34:2912 months or maybe 2,000 over 24 months

1:34:32or you get

1:34:351,200 over 36 hours if it's if it means

1:34:39a greater chance of us recouping the

1:34:40money because they can stay in business.

1:34:42That's that's where that's the thinking

1:34:44behind. However, these are points that

1:34:46we're looking for your direction, you

1:34:48know, a consensus consensus on. If

1:34:50collectively y'all have concerns about

1:34:52this, we can pull back on it. We we're

1:34:54we're letting you know what we see and

1:34:56then what we're recommending on how as

1:34:58we think through how we're addressing

1:35:00these operations. But that's how we got

1:35:02there. Ideally

1:35:04commercial we we've not before this

1:35:07incident there's never been commercial

1:35:09paint so this is that's new in itself

1:35:12and ideally it would not be something

1:35:13you do their business as part of their

1:35:16operation that's what they should plan

1:35:17for and you put in place and so we're

1:35:20trying the long term

1:35:21>> which is the long term

1:35:22>> long term you know

1:35:23>> just be residents and no more

1:35:25>> yeah six to nine months now this problem

1:35:27has sorted itself out a commercial

1:35:29business gets in a rears and we're not

1:35:31even going to consider request long term

1:35:34but as we work through the next you know

1:35:36>> we're just

1:35:42>> and there is a slide there is a slide

1:35:43later on specifically about manual plans

1:35:45as well so there's some kind of

1:35:47additional chase for that

1:35:50so I'll move to the next one

1:35:54so real quick I wanted to say uh five

1:35:57minutes on the clock folks from neighbor

1:35:58up are here who help us administer our

1:36:01uh customer assistance plan. Um these

1:36:04are some changes we can make um or we're

1:36:09thinking about making. This is a rough

1:36:10draft. You know, we're going to if we if

1:36:12we're feeling good about these three

1:36:13ideas or these two main ideas, you know,

1:36:16we can come back with specifics. Um one

1:36:18thing we don't do currently, uh our

1:36:22assistance is fixed per household

1:36:24without regard to the size of that

1:36:25household. So one of the ideas we're

1:36:28asking for you know kind of up down

1:36:30maybe proceed with this is

1:36:33we make the customer assistance program

1:36:35scale based on household. So the first

1:36:38part of that is you know it's rather

1:36:39than you know 636 max no matter how big

1:36:42your household is we would scale that in

1:36:44the eligibility criteria to where if

1:36:46they get up to six people in the

1:36:48household they could get up to $1,200.

1:36:50that is one way we can kind of support

1:36:53you know working families in the

1:36:54community without you know probably

1:36:57without really breaking the bank too

1:36:58much but also this is a more normal

1:37:00structure for this kind of assistance

1:37:02program as well. Um the second piece was

1:37:05is uh we have an eligibility income

1:37:09criteria um but it is several years

1:37:12stale at this point um based on area

1:37:15median 80% of area median income from

1:37:17like 80 was 2022

1:37:202022. So what we would want in ourou

1:37:23with neighborhood going forward is

1:37:25automatic adjustments to that so that

1:37:27that goes up as our rates go up and as

1:37:30those kinds of HUD determinations go up

1:37:32as a means of keeping us ahead of both

1:37:35inflationary pressures but also just the

1:37:37general economy

1:37:40>> the number of 80%

1:37:44>> I mean the actual figure like

1:37:48>> 100,000 I'm Just

1:37:58>> for family of four 76,500

1:38:02>> family

1:38:08>> 76,500

1:38:10>> 7600

1:38:17>> that would go up but that's that's

1:38:19basically the 22.

1:38:21>> Yeah, that's what I was say.

1:38:22>> Yeah. So,

1:38:29>> yeah.

1:38:37Family one is 784,000.

1:38:51initial.

1:38:55>> Yeah, it's pretty.

1:38:57>> Yeah, the the current PO purchase order

1:39:00for it is down 12, but then we also have

1:39:02funded it from Apex Cares. Um, and we're

1:39:05working out the proportion of Apex Cares

1:39:07that we can this Yes, we did. We did

1:39:10refill it every year

1:39:11>> effectively. Yeah, we've been putting

1:39:14aside money in the town budget towards

1:39:15Apex Cares. portion of a takes care goes

1:39:18to

1:39:19>> the portion not let's say refill like it

1:39:21wasn't that initial allocation of

1:39:23council but there has been some money

1:39:28there's the initial

1:39:30so there's some remaining that

1:39:37>> any questions com comments concerns on

1:39:39that particular piece

1:39:47So let me jump to the next slide. Mr.

1:39:48Mayor, [laughter]

1:39:50uh so you know, one of the things we

1:39:51were actually just talking about uh

1:39:53before the meeting started is, you know,

1:39:54neighbor does have other funding sources

1:39:56that they use to support folks in need.

1:39:59Um Wake County Energy Assistance, you

1:40:02know, handles all of the standard

1:40:04government programs, lie heap, things of

1:40:06that nature.

1:40:07uh United Way runs 211 which also does

1:40:10occasionally connect people with kind of

1:40:12charitable organizations and then there

1:40:14are state government programs that don't

1:40:15help with bills specifically but can

1:40:17help with the equipment.

1:40:20We of course try to emphasize those in

1:40:22all of ourations.

1:40:28All right, so jumping into the policy

1:40:30itself, we're talking about updating a

1:40:32policy that was last approved by town

1:40:33council in 1995. Um it is a a sevenpiece

1:40:38document. Um, just to quickly kind of

1:40:40set, we're talking about removing three

1:40:42sections from it. Um, that document also

1:40:45had a lot of rules and regulations about

1:40:48electric

1:40:49car services and public work stuff.

1:40:51We're talking about carving those out

1:40:52into separate documents so that you have

1:40:54a customer service policy that's

1:40:55primarily administered by the finance

1:40:57department. Um, oversight from town

1:41:00management.

1:41:03Uh so each of these slides is kind of

1:41:05new idea or revised policy kind of

1:41:08trying to adapt to changing

1:41:09circumstances. Um it's a problem

1:41:11statement and the goal is just for you

1:41:13to kind of give me immediate thoughts,

1:41:15concerns, follow-up questions later if

1:41:17you'd like.

1:41:19Um obviously first one is let's cut out

1:41:23all of the items about technical service

1:41:26delivery about how people get electric

1:41:28water or trash collection. keep this

1:41:30focused on, you know, the document that

1:41:34customers that's part of their contract

1:41:35with the town to receive services.

1:41:42Next one we're talking about is, you

1:41:43know, the 1995 policy. You know, we've

1:41:46got informal and formal version of this.

1:41:48It's yet we have pauses in

1:41:50disconnections between 32 degrees or

1:41:52above 100 degrees quote all day long uh

1:41:56or during specific months. So, you know,

1:41:58we're doing this less in November or

1:42:00December or January, but that also also

1:42:03overlaps with temperatures. Uh, in case

1:42:06anybody hasn't noticed, the weather

1:42:07pattern has changed in North Carolina

1:42:09since 1995. So, we do need to revisit

1:42:12this a little bit. Uh, so kind of our

1:42:14first draft recommendation is is that we

1:42:16would have an extreme weather

1:42:17disconnection policy that restricts

1:42:19disconnections when temperatures are

1:42:21forecasted to be above or below that 32

1:42:23degrees or 100 degrees for a period of

1:42:26greater than 12 hours. So during the

1:42:28heat of the day, it's over 100. During

1:42:30the cold of the night, it's like 200.

1:42:33>> I uh Yeah, I was just gonna say I spoke

1:42:36with town manager about the story in

1:42:38Rocky Mountain. Correlation doesn't

1:42:40equal causation, but it's a tragic story

1:42:42of three people who passed away um

1:42:44because they had been disconnected by

1:42:46the town. Um they did not receive

1:42:48payment. There was a disconnection.

1:42:51However, um the concern here is whether

1:42:54or not those that their fatal those

1:42:56fatalities that was exacerbated by the

1:43:00extreme weather and they um I believe

1:43:02we're adjusting it to 90 degrees

1:43:04Fahrenheit um or below in the summer and

1:43:06obviously I don't know what the winter

1:43:08time uh but is there a way that are we

1:43:11able to establish that here or is that

1:43:13something you need to go back and figure

1:43:15out what the appropriate temperatures

1:43:16are?

1:43:18We we welcome your input at this point

1:43:20and 100 degrees I don't know what the

1:43:22rale was in 1995

1:43:25seemed like a highlight

1:43:28kind of

1:43:30>> I mean 100 degrees outside is

1:43:33ridiculously hot

1:43:37>> certainly go collect data on days last

1:43:40year 90 degrees

1:43:42>> give us thresholds to look at run the

1:43:44numbers and say on average

1:43:47>> 50 days or above 90

1:43:50>> because to me the fact would be you know

1:43:53what's in our kind of like our highest

1:43:57average you know number of like heat

1:44:01you know excessive heat dates figuring

1:44:03out what those numbers were and then

1:44:06because it takes into account daytime

1:44:08and night

1:44:10and I feel like that's a good starting

1:44:11point for us

1:44:14I feel like everybody's come up with a

1:44:16temperature just a cup would sound like

1:44:20this 100 which does make a lot of sense.

1:44:22So I I like the idea just giving us a

1:44:25little bit more of a range. I feel like

1:44:28that number is probably going to be

1:44:29closer to 90 92 probably

1:44:33worth practice. So it's 100 degrees on

1:44:36Monday we're not going to turn you off

1:44:37and then it's going to be 90 90 degrees

1:44:39on Tuesday we're going to turn you off

1:44:41or it's a following billing cycle. How

1:44:44does this how does this work?

1:44:46>> It would fall within like it would be

1:44:48way to the next. So based on like just

1:44:52using these numbers, so let's take the

1:44:53cold that that's pretty standard. So say

1:44:56we've got three or four straight days

1:44:58where it's you know 32 32 degrees for 12

1:45:02or maybe the whole time we get a few

1:45:04days where it might not get above

1:45:05freezing. We're not going to disconnect

1:45:07it. Then then you know that's Monday

1:45:11through Wednesday and then Thursday

1:45:13we're back up to 45 and the forecast is

1:45:15it's going to stay in the 40s then

1:45:17you're such that customer is subject to

1:45:20disection at that time. So it doesn't

1:45:22wait it's [clears throat] just it's

1:45:23points in time of when that temperature

1:45:26is affecting

1:45:28how people

1:45:30questions maybe

1:45:32you mentioned earlier that we do

1:45:35connection

1:45:37water

1:45:41>> you thought about stage disconnection

1:45:42where we do the electric first and then

1:45:45keep the water just for efficiency on

1:45:47our side

1:45:48>> we're we're talking about if they have

1:45:50Electric electric would be the

1:45:51disconnection and we wouldn't touch the

1:45:52water.

1:45:53>> Yeah.

1:45:56>> We typically you don't to experience

1:45:59typically is when you cut the electric

1:46:02you've done what you need to do to get

1:46:04people.

1:46:06The only reason we the only reason we

1:46:09historically the only reason we have

1:46:10disconnected water sewer is that's the

1:46:12only service.

1:46:16Uh the second question is and this kind

1:46:19of ties to the um degrees.

1:46:24Do we just do a compassion and sort of

1:46:28connection when it's 112 degrees so

1:46:30they're back on during 4 to 6 p.m. or

1:46:33whatever

1:46:35that or is that logistically difficult

1:46:38as well to avoid I don't want to say

1:46:41it's not possible. I think we would have

1:46:42to look at what the logistics are for

1:46:45that in terms of actually how the system

1:46:49>> we can

1:46:49>> how they cooperate.

1:46:50>> Yeah, we can explore that

1:46:52>> more frequent people list. So it's it's

1:46:54sort of like there's

1:46:56I guess what I was getting at before

1:46:59sewer is almost like there's this can

1:47:01actually wouldn't be an onoff like stage

1:47:04like your electric storm but it'll come

1:47:06back if it's 110 degrees and maybe

1:47:08that'll go for a while and then finally

1:47:10okay you're just the system that sort of

1:47:12thing. So again sort of you know kind of

1:47:17[clears throat]

1:47:18>> that would be a logistical right there

1:47:19but I think it would be very very

1:47:22difficult for staff to do because that

1:47:25would be an individual cutting them all

1:47:27and off and what have been missed right

1:47:30I mean so it becomes very difficult it's

1:47:34not we we do not have

1:47:39thinking that through

1:47:41because let's

1:47:42or use Monday because Friday as the

1:47:45example Monday we disconnect Friday is

1:47:49excessive

1:47:50do we re establish somebody's been on

1:47:54for that many days or is it hey you were

1:47:56just unfortunate enough that you got

1:47:57disconnected before we had to see you

1:48:00know three days before so those are the

1:48:01sort of that's the sort of stuff that

1:48:03I'm thinking in my head that I

1:48:06don't want an answer now but I generally

1:48:09want to know what our thought process

1:48:14How do we handle that? Or if or even the

1:48:17larger picture is a recommendation as to

1:48:19whether or not we should

1:48:23>> and there are as we've seen already

1:48:25there probably

1:48:30is your official forecast

1:48:32there. There's so many say it's going to

1:48:34be excessive for the next 15 days

1:48:36according to the National Weather

1:48:37Service. You can you can look at a bunch

1:48:39of different things.

1:48:42Again, it gets complicated.

1:48:44Why we put so much emphasis on trying to

1:48:47not get this point because slice.

1:48:50>> I totally see that. And that's why I'm

1:48:52like I don't think there's an answer to

1:48:53that here. I think it's much more of a

1:48:57let's figure out what our what what our

1:48:59data set's going to be to help us at

1:49:00least be able to come up with a policy

1:49:02that can at least I mean we're not going

1:49:05to solve 100% of the problem 100% of the

1:49:08issue. Thought it was very telling that

1:49:10Sean in those slides you you call the

1:49:13challenges and the limits. The limits as

1:49:15we learned in the military is you have

1:49:17two or more bad choices, not two or more

1:49:21choices where there's a positive either

1:49:23side. It's a it's downside. So I thought

1:49:26of dilemma was very appropriate because

1:49:28that's what we're really working with

1:49:30here. Um I do have one question at the

1:49:33end that I I want to pose to John and

1:49:35you uh once you're done with all I'm

1:49:38getting through this because I it'll

1:49:40help me kind of get a sense as to what

1:49:42our

1:49:45so to speak.

1:49:47>> My question is if somebody some

1:49:50household got disconnected right then

1:49:53the weather like um above 90 right? Yes.

1:49:58And then we need to recct so for the

1:50:02several days you know um the weather is

1:50:05extremely hot we keep it connected. So

1:50:08who will pay this um utility bill this

1:50:12period at three or five days the town of

1:50:14that hospital?

1:50:17Who is responsible for the

1:50:19>> saying if we turn it back on it would be

1:50:21>> yeah when yeah you disconnect it then

1:50:23you have to turn back on because you

1:50:26know the extreme weather. So for the

1:50:28several days we have to keep it

1:50:30connected. Who is responsible for this

1:50:34three or five days of bing

1:50:37consumer? basically

1:50:40the meter spinning.

1:50:44>> Oh, okay. They got disconnected because

1:50:46they you know they then you they didn't

1:50:51reply you. So you turn it on. So they

1:50:54can say I didn't reply. So it's kind of

1:50:58tricky here, right? Yeah. Because they

1:51:00didn't request. Yeah. So this is

1:51:04complicated actually.

1:51:08Thank you forri

1:51:14still

1:51:23>> and I think looking at I think looking

1:51:25at

1:51:27we have so we can look at

1:51:35I think we're looking at The policy

1:51:36shouldn't be interpreted such a way that

1:51:38oh we just happen to have cold spell

1:51:40July

1:51:42through and it's 75 degrees July 7th.

1:51:45Okay let's listen to everybody on July

1:51:4714th back.

1:51:50>> Yeah.

1:51:53>> Okay. Uh so the next item is just

1:51:56talking about the payment plans. We can

1:51:59do payment plans for a period longer

1:52:00than 12 months. Um so just to remind

1:52:03there is a legal statute of limitations.

1:52:06So there is a time at which you know

1:52:07somebody between somebody receiving

1:52:09services and the town's ability to

1:52:11really pursue it outside of disconnect

1:52:13kind of goes away. Um sewer fees of

1:52:17course is shortest at three years. So we

1:52:19can go longer than 12 months. Um the

1:52:21risks are you know somebody signs a

1:52:24residential lease they're probably

1:52:25signing it for 12 months and then we put

1:52:28them on a 24-month payment plan. they

1:52:30move at the end of those 12 months. That

1:52:32is a real risk. Um certain kinds of

1:52:35commercial businesses don't have long

1:52:36lifespans. Uh they might exist for a

1:52:39year or two and then so we put them on a

1:52:4136. So the staff recommendation was is

1:52:43we would allow longer payment plans

1:52:46through the rest of this calendar year,

1:52:48but then it is there is a definitive end

1:52:49point in which we're just you know

1:52:51you're only doing 12 months and it's

1:52:53only for residents.

1:52:56>> It's set up now.

1:52:58My question is especially for the

1:53:01commercial

1:53:03some businesses they actually are

1:53:06seasonal dur during certain months of

1:53:09the year they perform really well and

1:53:13earn lots of money but during another

1:53:15several months they actually almost no

1:53:18business. So how how do you handle this?

1:53:23If you give them you know average like

1:53:25um like each month they pays like for

1:53:29example 3,000 right through 36

1:53:33they it's um they are able to pay it

1:53:38during the you know better for month

1:53:41that they won't be able to pay it during

1:53:44the you know

1:53:47uh

1:53:49almost no business

1:53:51>> right yeah

1:53:54I

1:53:55guess my immediate response to that is

1:53:57that's kind of why the town probably

1:53:59hasn't been in the business of offering

1:54:01that business at all. Their business

1:54:02model can't afford to keep the lights on

1:54:05for a couple months and

1:54:07>> their business model can't afford to

1:54:09keep the lights on for a couple months

1:54:10and that's just why we're not in

1:54:12>> doing this at all.

1:54:16>> Like that I like the staff

1:54:18recommendation on this one. It helps. I

1:54:20I mean to me I think we get a real I

1:54:25think we identify the two different type

1:54:28of actors by those who take advantage of

1:54:31the data plans and those who say they

1:54:33don't want to um and

1:54:37you know for those who want to take

1:54:38advantage of it I think

1:54:41having the option was necessary to be

1:54:43able to make that extension beyond 12

1:54:45months I think is probably appropriate.

1:54:48Um,

1:54:50this gives us kind of a drop dead thing

1:54:53basically saying if you haven't

1:54:54participated in this in a program by

1:54:57now, you're not going to get a chance to

1:54:59take full advantage of the additional

1:55:01benefits. It it it helps address moral

1:55:04hazards. So, I like it.

1:55:06>> John, I have a question about the town's

1:55:08build software.

1:55:10Do our adjacent municipalities

1:55:14also use that software?

1:55:17They use a different

1:55:20>> I think car's carri's on Oracle.

1:55:23Holy Springs uses Tyler. They're moving

1:55:25to Oracle.

1:55:29>> Reason why I'm just thinking about the

1:55:31possibility

1:55:35and how they're most likely to end up.

1:55:40uh

1:55:41>> then that can speak back to your debt

1:55:43collection and and it will attach that

1:55:46software that's

1:55:49>> I realize

1:55:50>> yeah that's that's a

1:55:52>> there's a service we send files to

1:56:03you

1:56:15Do we do have a couple of those? Yes.

1:56:18>> A pass due. No, I don't think

1:56:22>> nothing. That's I haven't recognized

1:56:24this. If we do, it wouldn't be a

1:56:26>> think so.

1:56:28>> Yeah, I don't think there Yeah, I don't

1:56:29think that there's any kind of this is

1:56:31serve multiple households accounts that

1:56:33are in this bucket of people.

1:56:34>> I'm trying to There are some trying to

1:56:43Okay. Um, so the 1995 policy has a lot

1:56:47of provisions about overcharges and

1:56:49undercharges on various services. We

1:56:51obviously have a financial legal

1:56:53obligation to ensure you know that we're

1:56:55billing appropriately and collecting

1:56:57appropriately. Um, well, we're looking

1:56:59at some kind of way to clarify kind of

1:57:02make it as uniform as possible. Um so we

1:57:06were having a recommendation of if

1:57:08there's an error in the customer's favor

1:57:11they have been you know uh undercharged

1:57:14by the town and the town discovers that

1:57:17we're going to go back you know we would

1:57:18limit that back filling to six months

1:57:22and then if they are you know being

1:57:24overcharged by the town you know we

1:57:26would offer adjustments for at least a

1:57:28period of 12 months and so that keeps it

1:57:30kind of simple and uniform

1:57:33has just been a way to kind of sort

1:57:35different kinds of adjustments into two

1:57:37buckets and then treat them appropriate.

1:57:48>> Uh the other one was refunds. The 1995

1:57:51policy doesn't really discuss or there's

1:57:53not really a lot of authorization to do

1:57:55refunds outside of um when the accounts

1:57:58closed and the folks are moving away

1:58:01outside of Apex. Um, so we were

1:58:04thinking, you know,

1:58:07you could do it and they also now have

1:58:09like real time access. You can pop in

1:58:11the portal. You can see if you have a

1:58:12debit or a credit balance. Um, we were

1:58:14saying as just a rule of thumb, um,

1:58:17customers could request a refund of

1:58:18credit balances if it's more than two

1:58:20times their most recent. It's just kind

1:58:22of old circuit breaker for folks who

1:58:24overpay the town sometimes by accident

1:58:27or, you know, they get to budget billing

1:58:29settle up. you know, just give us a rule

1:58:31of thumb that we can work on. Anything

1:58:33bigger, anything smaller than that would

1:58:35be subject to some kind of supervisory

1:58:37management.

1:58:39>> So, are we talking that like as soon as

1:58:41the average balance hits 2x8

1:58:45bill, we would issue a check for

1:58:49>> we would ask for to ask like they could

1:58:51request it because right now they can't

1:58:52request a refund at all.

1:58:59simple, easy to understand. You know,

1:59:01it's well, I think one of the reasons

1:59:03why the old policy is like the time

1:59:05period between billing, by the time they

1:59:07we they could see they had a credit, the

1:59:09next bill was already due and we're kind

1:59:11of technologically past that

1:59:23I don't know mechanics.

1:59:27account for us. But I mean, it seems

1:59:30that if there's an overpayment, why

1:59:34credit?

1:59:34>> Oh, we do.

1:59:35>> I mean I mean I mean just continue to do

1:59:37that.

1:59:38>> We we do. It's just every now and then

1:59:40you've got someone that's like, "Hey,

1:59:42I missed it in my checkbook. I made a

1:59:44double payment." And they get in a

1:59:46situation where they might have a

1:59:48financial hardship now because they paid

1:59:50us. And it's really for that situation.

1:59:52We don't anticipate it happening a lot.

1:59:54It's really and that's why we tried to

1:59:55carve it out like again at least two

1:59:58times your bill because oh I overpaid by

1:59:5910 bucks we'll credit it'll go on your

2:00:01credit you know it'll be it'll be on

2:00:03your account you get get that money for

2:00:06it. So it it's really we don't see it

2:00:08happening a lot and it's really just

2:00:10make sure that there's folks we don't

2:00:12create

2:00:13>> okay that that scenario you want me to I

2:00:16was like okay that makes sense.

2:00:22Um, so another one we've run into is

2:00:25we've had, you know, solar customers

2:00:27recently, you know, a lot of interest in

2:00:29their billing. Um, they've almost all

2:00:32got an app on their phone that connects

2:00:34to their solar panels and they're

2:00:35comparing that against what their bill

2:00:36says every month. when they're on cycle

2:00:40two, which is midmon the 15th to the

2:00:4215th billing periods. Obviously, that,

2:00:44you know,

2:00:46takes a lot more time to respond to

2:00:47their concerns when you're having to,

2:00:49you know, back out everything after the

2:00:5116th, put it on. So, we were thinking

2:00:53over time we would actually migrate all

2:00:55the solar customers to the same billing

2:00:58period. So, everybody's solar is in the

2:01:00same service period and it's one that

2:01:02would align with calendar month. So we

2:01:04get to to where their bills try to match

2:01:06up against the apps they've got on their

2:01:08phone measuring in the reporting cycles

2:01:11>> best they can

2:01:12>> as best we can.

2:01:13>> Yeah. Our meters are the authority on

2:01:15>> match.

2:01:16>> It's never going to match but

2:01:18>> I think we be very we should be very

2:01:19careful about telling us not to we don't

2:01:23have any usage about what goes on on the

2:01:26house side for that. The inverter gives

2:01:29the power that it's producing as it's

2:01:33producing it, but it doesn't say what

2:01:35the house is using.

2:01:38And then then you have what's what the

2:01:40house doesn't use comes into our system.

2:01:42And that's the only piece we pick up is

2:01:45what comes into our system. to what's

2:01:48coming into our system will not match

2:01:50the program.

2:01:55>> Usually what percentage it goes to our

2:01:58system?

2:02:00>> It varies.

2:02:02This wouldn't be to be an example. Just

2:02:03would be to make it easier to closer for

2:02:07comparison and address.

2:02:09>> It's mostly so that we're speaking the

2:02:10same language

2:02:12is just kind of the idea here. even

2:02:14though it will never match, the numbers

2:02:16will never precisely add up to two

2:02:18different systems and beyond their meter

2:02:21is a black box to us once they've

2:02:23slapped some solar rays on the roof kind

2:02:25of a thing. But we thought this might be

2:02:28some way to get us towards at least

2:02:32treating those customers in a more

2:02:34meaningful.

2:02:36>> It would help. I agree that it would

2:02:38help from a standpoint of

2:02:42how we deal with solar customers.

2:02:47>> I know.

2:02:52>> This is one um that might um invite some

2:02:56discussion. Um, so we often get into a

2:03:00dispute where we're talking to renters

2:03:03and they are they've leased their

2:03:05property and the property owners

2:03:06responsible for the maintenance of the

2:03:08equipment, the HVAC alarm. Um,

2:03:12seems like there's high use, there's a

2:03:14water leak. Um, the landlord says, I've

2:03:17had somebody look at it, there's no leak

2:03:19on this side.

2:03:21Our folks look at it and we say, it's

2:03:24not on our side. One thing in the

2:03:26toolbox that some North Carolina

2:03:28utilities have done is they've got a

2:03:29policy where

2:03:31at some point there is a circuit breaker

2:03:33so to speak where we can notice the

2:03:36property and we can say you know right

2:03:38now the tenant is the contracting party

2:03:41for services.

2:03:43The next time there's a changeover

2:03:47you as the landlord the property owner

2:03:48will have to be the contract.

2:03:51And that is one way we could move

2:03:52towards, you know,

2:03:55smoothing over some of these issues

2:03:56where a tenant gets caught in the

2:03:58middle.

2:03:59It of course could improve collections.

2:04:02It's a financial risk thing where you

2:04:04know the obviously the landlord is going

2:04:07to have a little bit more of ability to

2:04:09pay most likely than a renter might. Um

2:04:14so but it's one of those things where if

2:04:15you're interested, we could come up with

2:04:17some kind of threshold. There's been too

2:04:18many high bill complaints. there's been

2:04:20too many delinquents at this particular

2:04:22kind of address.

2:04:24We would then notice the property owner

2:04:26and say, "Hey, going forward,

2:04:30you're going to be the responsible

2:04:31contracting for this address."

2:04:33>> So, it's very specific property. It's

2:04:35just not a blanket rule. That's every

2:04:38>> No, we could owners.

2:04:41>> Yeah. Legally, we couldn't just say

2:04:43property owners in Apex forever the only

2:04:46people [clears throat] who can contract,

2:04:47but we could try to establish some

2:04:49process. So,

2:04:51>> so the property gets flagged the next

2:04:52time the current

2:04:54>> contracted party drops out.

2:04:55>> Y

2:04:57>> it can only be reestablished in the

2:04:58current.

2:05:00>> Yeah.

2:05:01>> Yeah. It wouldn't be that, you know, the

2:05:02renter moves out was $3,000. We can't

2:05:05hold the property owners, you know,

2:05:06responsible for that $3,000.

2:05:09Um, but we could say, you know, going

2:05:11forward that bill's got to be in your

2:05:12name and it's got to be your

2:05:14responsibility. You need to break that.

2:05:21>> I've got a few real big questions on

2:05:24that

2:05:28rather than showing up everybody's time

2:05:30on sitting down to talk about that.

2:05:33Okay, I've got I have some genuine

2:05:35questions about

2:05:37the impact this will have on not like a

2:05:41multi- unit

2:05:43but on the single unit

2:05:47and a lot of the things that are tied

2:05:50with, you know, like if you're going to

2:05:53school, you got to have a bill. The

2:05:54bill's got to have your name on it, that

2:05:56sort of stuff. So, uh, yeah, I'm a

2:05:59little heartburn about this one.

2:06:04It should be pretty rare, right? And if

2:06:07I if I catch what you're saying, there

2:06:09may be situations where the property

2:06:11owner doesn't want to deal with what

2:06:13could be a maintenance issue because

2:06:16they're not attracted with the town.

2:06:19They can just say, "Oh, no. This problem

2:06:21here." And we have no way of forcing

2:06:22them. the rental

2:06:25and this would be a way of saying okay

2:06:27well you know it is someone contract so

2:06:30they can be responsible but you hold

2:06:32them responsible

2:06:34>> yeah yeah totally see what what what the

2:06:37intent is going to be I I have a lot of

2:06:40skepticism about the rarity assumption a

2:06:43lot of skepticism

2:06:46because I can see this essentially every

2:06:49time there is a new tenant this is going

2:06:51to be an issue because I've yet to be

2:06:53and anybody here always knows there's

2:06:56that period of time that month before

2:06:58they leave that month after they leave

2:07:00there's a bill somewhere that to me

2:07:03looks like a trigger so it's and if that

2:07:07happens pretty frequently

2:07:12I just want to think this one through a

2:07:14little bit more I like I like the idea I

2:07:18skeptical of some of the con I'm just

2:07:20skeptical of some of the things that we

2:07:22We haven't had a chance to discuss and

2:07:24as I said I'll we'll sit down and we'll

2:07:25talk

2:07:27this is

2:07:29come out of time probably ask all

2:07:30questions I have good

2:07:34make sure

2:07:40>> I'm okay with this

2:07:51Uh and then so the last one really the

2:07:54last policy is so we've got some

2:07:57challenges in our budget billing

2:07:58program. Um really if you look at the

2:08:01old policy it's it really doesn't

2:08:04imagine that somebody might sign up for

2:08:06budget billing and not pay or that they

2:08:08might miss a payment they might get

2:08:10penalties or that they would be subject

2:08:12to disco kind of kind of operates a

2:08:14little bit like an IU in some ways in

2:08:16the old policy. you know, they're going

2:08:17to settle up with us within a calendar

2:08:19year and everything will be okay. Um,

2:08:23it it's really that's not really

2:08:26standard practice for a lot of

2:08:27utilities. Like if you sign up for

2:08:28budget billing with Duke, that's that's

2:08:30a real contract that you have to sign.

2:08:32It's an agreement that you're agreeing

2:08:33to pay the same number 11 months in a

2:08:35row and then the 12th month is

2:08:36different. Um, so we would like

2:08:41permission or we recommend that we we

2:08:42actually have a policy where we review

2:08:44compliance with budget billing every

2:08:46month. Are they on track with their

2:08:48budget? If not, um, and you know that

2:08:52they could be removed for non-payment or

2:08:54not keeping up, falling behind, or, you

2:08:57know, paying anything different than the

2:08:58number they've agreed to pay. They've

2:08:59agreed to pay $300 a month. You know, it

2:09:02creates accounting headaches if they pay

2:09:04$310.

2:09:06um you know trying to move this towards

2:09:08a genuine contract of paying 11 times in

2:09:12a row the exact same number and it's

2:09:14that 12th time is different.

2:09:17So that's the recommendation.

2:09:26>> What's the 12th month? Does it vary per

2:09:28person or is it always

2:09:30>> June?

2:09:30>> It's always June.

2:09:33>> Doesn't have to be.

2:09:34>> Doesn't have to be. We can change it. We

2:09:34can make it. Yeah, right.

2:09:36>> September, October

2:09:38>> always

2:09:40based on their previous year

2:09:43based on the increased rates or

2:09:44something usages that they

2:09:46>> think they're take their last 12 months

2:09:49divide by 12 or just by know the rates

2:09:51went up by 3%.

2:09:56>> So just real quick one slide about

2:09:57future state. Um what we're talking

2:10:00about doing um we you know Sean and I

2:10:02have been discussing as part of the rate

2:10:04study we're doing raftless with rafflas

2:10:06is you know we move the utility services

2:10:08effective rates later in the year so

2:10:10that you know rate increases aren't

2:10:12happening the exact same month of summer

2:10:14you know when the bills normally pretty

2:10:16high anyway to everybody run air

2:10:18conditioning. Uh we're looking at uh

2:10:21September go live on being able to

2:10:24actually push their usages, their

2:10:25kilowatt hours, their water to the

2:10:27customer portal so people can go and

2:10:28query that information.

2:10:30>> Yes.

2:10:31>> Excuse September.

2:10:32>> Yeah. Next month we're we're final

2:10:34testing.

2:10:36>> I mean this has been in the works while

2:10:38you depend on getting good we get a

2:10:41certain uh hit a certain threshold of

2:10:44new meters meters.

2:10:47you're still relying on a lot of

2:10:48communication technology like the meters

2:10:50still read it's not the meters and it's

2:10:52not even the billing it's the

2:10:54communications you know in between you

2:10:56know just like your Wi-Fi doesn't work

2:10:58at home or your cell again you know and

2:11:00so hey that didn't didn't send that hour

2:11:03or that 15 minute interval so then you

2:11:05look at the chart and it's like got you

2:11:07know got here and reading here and

2:11:09missing one here and it comes back here

2:11:11so you're looking at those things so we

2:11:14got to figure out make sure that people

2:11:15understand

2:11:17the meter is still up any regional

2:11:18entry. That's correct. Right. It's just

2:11:20that we're working on that, but it's

2:11:22it's coming and it'll be a very useful

2:11:24tool for folks to be able to see what

2:11:26they're, you know, hopefully monitor

2:11:28their own habits because we don't know

2:11:30their habits, but people seem to think

2:11:32that we know their habits and we don't,

2:11:34you know, and we can say, hey, you can

2:11:35look at what your usages are.

2:11:38And there was I mean on this subject

2:11:41there were a lot of problems made

2:11:42initially about features like uh we can

2:11:45detect in real time when there's a leak

2:11:47you know see a steady kind of usage

2:11:50overnight typically

2:11:53still

2:11:53>> yep it's still planned we have those

2:11:55actually a lot of our le detection is

2:11:56already in place

2:12:01>> and the last one is kind of

2:12:06kind of I think what's going to deliver

2:12:08some real dividends adding billing

2:12:10cycles. Um you know we would reduce

2:12:13because right now you know our cycles

2:12:15our cycle one or cycle two is we're

2:12:17basically billing you know that is the

2:12:20entire customer account for Holly

2:12:21Springs. So every two weeks we're trying

2:12:23to push out bills with more services for

2:12:25something the size of Holly Springs

2:12:27right for their customer account. Um

2:12:30we're thinking that you know we can

2:12:32reduce the amount of time squeezed um on

2:12:36reviewing variances

2:12:38the gap between the service period and

2:12:40when the bill is actually issued

2:12:44give more time for customers to

2:12:45disconnect and reconnect because right

2:12:46now between cycles we're having to you

2:12:48know shut down all the activity on

2:12:50specific you know disconnects and

2:12:52reconnects. And then of course, you

2:12:54know, you can kind of imagine why it

2:12:56might be more effective if we were

2:12:58getting this down to, you know, our

2:12:59current customer account spread across,

2:13:00you know, we got one person handling

2:13:038,000 customers rather than one person

2:13:04handling 17,000 customers. But we got to

2:13:07work through the logistics on that, but

2:13:08we think that would be a big process

2:13:10improvement transfer in how the town's

2:13:12doing business on this topic.

2:13:15>> To speak on a more steady state,

2:13:17>> yeah,

2:13:19>> it would mean there's a lot you see a

2:13:21lot of. It'll take us a little bit to

2:13:22get there. We're not pushing right now

2:13:24trying to work with those things that

2:13:26we're the the data is coming. We want to

2:13:29get that out there and then I think we

2:13:32would like to in this coming year when

2:13:33we talk about rates then set the rates

2:13:35change when the rates go into effect.

2:13:39>> That's what I was about.

2:13:40>> Cycle three is quarterly storm water

2:13:42billing. So it's kind of already staked

2:13:44out in our process. So we're going to

2:13:47move to four or five.

2:13:48>> Yeah, there is already three. It's just

2:13:50not it's not quite where storm water

2:13:53went.

2:14:05I do have one quick question because I

2:14:07know in terms of the

2:14:10entire well not

2:14:12>> the

2:14:14entire process of our loss is something

2:14:17that kind of anticipated we would be

2:14:19taking some form of financial loss on

2:14:22this back when this entire endeavor

2:14:24began. Um

2:14:27to me it seems as though there's almost

2:14:30kind of a anticipated loss mount. we

2:14:34have an idea of what

2:14:36our realistic

2:14:38loss amount is.

2:14:41Yeah, I don't know that we John and I

2:14:42have actually discussed that in terms of

2:14:44not the specific number but

2:14:47>> accounting for how many people we

2:14:49anticipate how many people

2:14:50>> we know yeah we look we look at the risk

2:14:52and we know know what's there um

2:14:56>> we do anticipate that there will be some

2:14:58lumps I mean we don't know what those

2:15:00centers are and the part of what we're

2:15:02trying to do you know in this is a risk

2:15:06mitigation of how much of that do we

2:15:07lose right creating opportunities for

2:15:09people to Okay. And not just walk away

2:15:12that sort of thing. There might be

2:15:13collections options. We are trying to

2:15:15minimize it. So we're looking at a bunch

2:15:16of things to to I don't we hesitate to

2:15:20put a number on it or even say a

2:15:22percentage where we are now because we

2:15:24haven't implemented all the tools that

2:15:26we have. So splate these to encourage

2:15:29people to pay the disconnects to

2:15:30encourage people to pay and then

2:15:32encourage them to set payments. I think

2:15:33when we go through

2:15:36we go through the first when each cycle

2:15:38goes to that first disconnect realm and

2:15:40all the people that are not listening

2:15:42and not paying attention or whatever

2:15:45other reasons that they may not set up a

2:15:46payment plan um that's

2:15:48>> that's going to be a trigger and when we

2:15:50and when we can see then how many people

2:15:53are able to set up paying plans and get

2:15:55in manage a manageable state then I

2:15:58think we'll have a better idea of being

2:15:59able to say okay out of that here's a

2:16:02percent the payment plan. Here's a

2:16:04percentage of what we're seeing is are

2:16:05able to follow through on the payment

2:16:06plan. This is a number that we something

2:16:09that we are potentially going to have to

2:16:11figure out what our collection options

2:16:13are or what

2:16:15>> I I I understand where my colleague, you

2:16:21know, operate under the idea that, you

2:16:23know, a lot of people just kind of dug

2:16:24this hole for themselves. I I think

2:16:27there were a number of people who did

2:16:28that. I appreciate the approach that you

2:16:30guys have been taking on this because I

2:16:32do think it's a focus on how do we

2:16:35prevent the disconnections because

2:16:37ultimately if you do the disconnection

2:16:39our ability to make a recovery of the

2:16:41cost drops substantially. So the longer

2:16:45we can keep people continuing to pay the

2:16:47better off we're going to pay.

2:16:49offsetting that with the idea of if you

2:16:51have a $100 payment plan and a $200

2:16:55bill, you maybe you may be walking folks

2:16:59through a longer period in which things

2:17:03may become more awkward for us all. So I

2:17:07I I get those those factors. I mean, I I

2:17:11I

2:17:12tend to be much more on the those who

2:17:15made the willing decision to say, "I'm

2:17:18not paying for whatever reason, even

2:17:19though we had countless meetings,

2:17:22countless face to face, countless

2:17:23opportunities for people to be able to

2:17:25ask why their bill may have been, you

2:17:27know, may have had a discrepancy or

2:17:29not." And then after having that

2:17:31presented to them, they didn't report. I

2:17:34think those folks are in a completely

2:17:36different category than the person who

2:17:38is I'm just financially struggling right

2:17:41now. And to me, the downside is I don't

2:17:44know how to make that distinction. And

2:17:46I'm not sure outside of asking these

2:17:48persons.

2:17:50I'm not sure how we make that that how

2:17:52we make that distinction. So I think

2:17:53your assumption that you are operating

2:17:55on which is do what we can to provide

2:17:57customer service, do what we can to

2:17:58provide the recovery. I think it's an

2:18:01appropriate tone to take. Um, and I but

2:18:04I think that tone becomes moderated by

2:18:07how much we're looking at in terms of

2:18:08our anticipated loss amount and that's

2:18:12that to me I mean there's always going

2:18:13to be that that loss amount will

2:18:15probably be at least variable but to

2:18:18some extent fixed because we know the

2:18:20cost of how much chasing that number is

2:18:23going to be that I think is a number

2:18:26that is useful for us because as we're

2:18:28talking about things such as private

2:18:30collections you

2:18:32asking if it's worth the squeeze because

2:18:35I don't know if I want to pay $20 to get

2:18:37$10 back

2:18:41and I don't know how much it's going to

2:18:43cost. So just that's why I asked that

2:18:46question. you I you don't if you haven't

2:18:48now I'd be glad while you guys are on it

2:18:50but I think it's an important number for

2:18:51us to start thinking through figure out

2:18:53where that del

2:18:56>> I I think your comments also speak to

2:18:58the broader

2:19:00how these funds are set up I mean at the

2:19:02end of the day it's an enterprise fund

2:19:04>> so our goal is to try and help people

2:19:08one get through this point distribution

2:19:10put a big emphasis there for obvious

2:19:12reasons the other is kind of the unsaid

2:19:14advocacy or

2:19:16whatever percent 95% 96% that have paid

2:19:20their bills that ultimately if we have

2:19:22to have a write-off that all factors

2:19:23into our rates as we forward and even

2:19:26with that there's a potential that those

2:19:29rates then put other people at risk or

2:19:32maybe just now being able to make it and

2:19:33we have to raise a little bit more to

2:19:35make up for it. So we're putting people

2:19:37in the future in jeopardy of not being

2:19:38able to pay the bills as well. So it's

2:19:40it's to everyone's benefit to get these

2:19:43payments in. But we also at some point

2:19:46have to be a little balanced being

2:19:48heavy-handed to protect the rateayers

2:19:50that are following. So I think that's a

2:19:53key point and I it's a point I made one

2:19:58per section. You're not sticking it up

2:20:00by by not being really sticking up.

2:20:04And so you know fear pressure pressure

2:20:06is fantastic for the basis. Okay. So,

2:20:10the for those folk out there listening

2:20:13to this and you're still hanging in

2:20:14there, um you know, if you're aware of

2:20:16somebody who is probably telling

2:20:18everybody that pay their electric bill,

2:20:20right, you're ultimately the one

2:20:25that's so um you know, get the word out

2:20:29that it's not a for

2:20:35your points, the overwhelming majority

2:20:37that's has paid the bills

2:20:41with the charge chart which you know

2:20:43those are panel

2:20:49>> and and there are ways and maybe

2:20:50neighbor address this there are ways

2:20:53that people who would like to pay more

2:20:54that can afford to pay more could maybe

2:20:56contribute to the different funds that

2:20:58are available for people to apply for

2:21:01assistance so that is a way for to also

2:21:04help your neighbors paying their bills

2:21:06if they're in situations you get in

2:21:08touch with some of the partners that

2:21:09John listed out including April.

2:21:19>> Hey guys, appreciate it.

2:21:21>> Lots of information. Thank you. Thank

2:21:24you. Appreciate it.

2:21:26>> Next steps.

2:21:27>> Can we talk next steps for one second?

2:21:29>> Yes.

2:21:30>> You think next steps are so for us we we

2:21:32want you to be aware of what we're

2:21:34heading into and how we're responding to

2:21:35it. um because we know that we all will

2:21:39also receive those contacts. Um so we're

2:21:43just letting you know how we're working

2:21:44through that what the plans are and then

2:21:46if you had any concerns one year we

2:21:47appreciate the feedback today. Um you

2:21:49know the kind of the the policy manual

2:21:52piece like John mentioned we are working

2:21:53on it and drafting it out and um because

2:21:56it needs to be updated needs to be

2:21:57revised. There needs to be

2:21:58clarifications. There needs to be more

2:22:00modern attempts to to do things and so

2:22:03that'll come to you um in the weeks to

2:22:05come. I mean, we're working on going

2:22:06through. We want to make sure it we'll

2:22:09bring that to you. That will actually

2:22:10need to be a formal um you know,

2:22:12presentation to you or at least approval

2:22:14by you at a council. So, you'll you'll

2:22:16see that it's not just

2:22:19that's really it. Um we'll keep you

2:22:21updated on the numbers as we go through.

2:22:23Um John updates and I so can provide you

2:22:27updates to where we are with the

2:22:30numbers. And like I said, it looks uh

2:22:32September I think it's around September

2:22:3422nd or so 24 somewhere around there.

2:22:36That's the first that button on the

2:22:38disconnect. Um we have we are we have an

2:22:41operational plan in place for the four

2:22:45weeks surrounding that cycle one and

2:22:48cycle two disconnects. Like we've got a

2:22:49plan in place for how we're like making

2:22:51sure we're here to respond help from our

2:22:53partners neighbor. All that's in place

2:22:55to um to to be able to take care of

2:22:57those folks. So after that we'll let we

2:22:59be able to let you know how that went

2:23:01and you know how we expect that all of

2:23:03us to get back to what would be

2:23:08our standard operating which was meant

2:23:10to facilitate to be more efficient not

2:23:12just for us but for our customers keep

2:23:14everybody manageable situation more

2:23:21that so that that's been part of it too

2:23:25we don't want to get the background

2:23:26passion task. That's why that

2:23:29operational plan is addressing that. um

2:23:31how many even changing the the the rate

2:23:35the dollar threshold from 500 to a

2:23:37thousand was evaluating what the

2:23:38workload potential work like what that

2:23:40could be and we were able to we looked

2:23:43at that I think that's about 400 people

2:23:46that off that what would be the

2:23:48disconnected list going to that um so

2:23:52that's potentially 400 people that we'd

2:23:54rather have them come and set payment

2:23:56plan but potentially for that aren't

2:23:57being disconnected or calling to make

2:23:59sure they don't get disconnected

2:24:03Um, not yet. I mean, they get to that

2:24:05next actually. They've already gotten

2:24:07letters because I think they were

2:24:09>> that 5 any 500's already got they got a

2:24:12letter back in June in May, beginning of

2:24:15June. So, they got that initial letter

2:24:17say this is coming. Now, anybody now

2:24:20that the threshold, they're going to get

2:24:22letters um about, you know, coming to

2:24:25the actual specific date.

2:24:28Anything

2:24:31else?

2:24:36>> What's um council's preference on the

2:24:38final item? I requested a rest

2:24:43over

2:24:45at the same

2:24:57day.

2:25:04I mean it's it's he put it on the I mean

2:25:08I I say this about education I think all

2:25:11of us clear about the process.

2:25:15Um yeah,

2:25:16>> he has questions about

2:25:19the process for me was a formalization

2:25:22of an informal process where the input

2:25:25of council was provided to the mayor so

2:25:28that he

2:25:30would have informed information

2:25:40specifically it speaks to

2:25:43policy procedure

2:25:45This

2:25:56[clears throat]

2:26:01nomination

2:26:08one there among council and mayor one

2:26:11when there's

2:26:12members of council

2:26:14um one when there is no consensus and

2:26:16then the last one when there's no

2:26:18recommendation.

2:26:20So those were kind of the five scenario

2:26:26just so that we're clear

2:26:28of appointment

2:26:35right before those appointments. Uh

2:26:38I think we still have to formally adopt

2:26:42policy

2:26:43stuff

2:26:46then. So the only scenario that I don't

2:26:50think we fall for yet when the mayor

2:26:52doesn't make a recommendation because

2:26:55right now that is got to official start

2:26:59of the the process

2:27:02and from my understanding we as council

2:27:05do not have the authority

2:27:07to suspend the rules and make our own

2:27:10recommendations

2:27:12to the mayor and I don't want to make it

2:27:13about the person the role of mayor

2:27:16position

2:27:17doesn't make a a recommendation.

2:27:21So

2:27:23that's that's one scenario that I think

2:27:25we're finding ourselves in right now

2:27:27where no recommendations made.

2:27:28Therefore, no both have been taken. Um

2:27:32and so what I'm thinking is just kind of

2:27:36where my head is at this that specific

2:27:39scenario

2:27:41that you know a we're letting people

2:27:43serve in roles that have expresses,

2:27:45right? I think that's kind of counter to

2:27:48setting term limits on these roles to

2:27:50begin with. I think it's been respectful

2:27:53for those people in the role because now

2:27:55we're kind of forcing them into you know

2:27:58extended service right or force them to

2:28:01resign which

2:28:04way that's something that somebody who's

2:28:06committed to role.

2:28:10Um I also think by not progressing on

2:28:13some of these appointments you know

2:28:14people have interest they have stressed

2:28:17they've gone through the process of

2:28:19filling out application and we're

2:28:21sitting on it for six months without

2:28:23doing anything with them. I think again

2:28:25a big respect to the people that have

2:28:29expressed interest in serving the town

2:28:31in these capacities and and so no matter

2:28:35how you determine it I think you know

2:28:37the fact that we have these vacancies

2:28:40that billing for whatever set of reasons

2:28:43that I think we have solve for for most

2:28:45of the case

2:28:48and all that but what's really kind of

2:28:51holding things up is no recommendation

2:28:55effectively

2:28:58at this point in time powerless to

2:29:06the spotlight of pin action only ask the

2:29:10question of who's the plot and then the

2:29:13public gets a chance to see

2:29:15>> fair but that doesn't necessarily mean

2:29:18that's we're going to get and so it's

2:29:22like to see, you know, an update to

2:29:25policy or law where we council can

2:29:29enforce a nomination or make our own.

2:29:37>> I would just suggest you could do that,

2:29:39but you need to do that in order.

2:29:44>> But we can change.

2:29:46>> I think yes. I think the question is,

2:29:49you know, is it the desire of council

2:29:51that the mayor have sort of how to call

2:29:55it but like pocket veto on the process

2:29:57by not recommendation.

2:30:00Um that's tended seems to be that's how

2:30:03it works. That's not the intention if it

2:30:06won't work like change the law and say

2:30:12it's clear that the intention is the

2:30:15mayor recommendation

2:30:23time

2:30:26but that time frame is one of

2:30:30>> that's one of the clarification

2:30:31questions we have these I I mean, I hope

2:30:34we're all in agreement. We want to get

2:30:36to a regular order where we're

2:30:37processing these appointments in a

2:30:38timely fashion. It's the one now where

2:30:41the previous ones are backing up to the

2:30:43next.

2:30:46We got to just roll through these things

2:30:48and it shouldn't be that big of a deal

2:30:50because

2:30:52every six months

2:30:55some of these boards are statutoily

2:30:57required and therefore by not having

2:31:00them fully served seems to be undermined

2:31:06business.

2:31:08What's the appropriate do we are we

2:31:10talking about that now then or we

2:31:11talking about that on the 25th? I think

2:31:13on the 25th we have the appointments

2:31:16from June are coming back up again

2:31:20and we have recommendation we don't have

2:31:23a recommendation

2:31:28and what we do

2:31:30this you know August

2:31:39[clears throat]

2:31:42will be to update the ordinance.

2:31:46Um

2:31:47I want to make it specific because the

2:31:50thing may

2:31:52basically give us

2:31:56council

2:31:58to at any time whatever place

2:32:02without considering the mayor's motion.

2:32:07Um I think a time limit or time frame

2:32:10might be appropriate to add in here for

2:32:12recommendations are expected. Um at

2:32:16least 30 days prior to expiration of the

2:32:18existing terms so we can vote people in

2:32:21before the terms expire

2:32:24or shortly there instead of having that

2:32:27process starts after the terms have

2:32:29already expired. Uh again that kind of

2:32:32forces us into a regular cadence where

2:32:35we're reviewing these upcoming

2:32:36terminations

2:32:38people and continue service

2:32:43or support.

2:32:58I will I mean are we ready to do this or

2:33:02I'm good to go. There's two there's two

2:33:03parts

2:33:06like there's the ordinance which affects

2:33:09um

2:33:11most of the boards the town code and

2:33:13there's the UDO which is specific I

2:33:15think to pluster

2:33:18process so although the ordinance is is

2:33:23just you just say words here there you

2:33:27have a hearing they don't have a hearing

2:33:32amendment Yeah.

2:33:42>> So I guess what what I'm hearing is that

2:33:45it's it's unclear

2:33:47I mean right now whether you want to

2:33:49want want to move forward with directing

2:33:52staff to prepare an ordinance amendment

2:33:55or not.

2:33:57So I I don't want to operate in a gray

2:33:59space where there's an assumption that

2:34:01we are doing an ordinance amendment or

2:34:04propose proposing an ordinance or we're

2:34:06not. So, do we want to hold on that or

2:34:09are we giving direction?

2:34:10>> I I and

2:34:14some from my colleagues here, but I

2:34:17would like for staff to prepare the new

2:34:18appropriate language to update the

2:34:21ordinance and need to go and get the

2:34:24motion or get the get the process

2:34:28>> and and that direction is to include a

2:34:31time limit for the mayor to provide a

2:34:32recommendation or to keep it. I'm I'm

2:34:35proposing a time limit that says that

2:34:37recommendations need to be made uh at

2:34:40least 30 days prior to term expirations.

2:34:46And if no such recommendations are made

2:35:00just

2:35:12okay. So you're saying to prepare it,

2:35:18>> I want to dig some language.

2:35:23>> I like I like

2:35:26>> Yeah, I mean we need to get that

2:35:28fashion. I would also consider that if

2:35:32we go that direction and time it such

2:35:34thatffects amendment at the same time

2:35:37maybe we're not like in this state we

2:35:40have some adopted some

2:35:43later

2:35:45some other there

2:35:48so yeah we can put them on the same

2:35:50schedule right understanding that

2:35:53amendment requires additional staff that

2:35:56we do the adoption of codes You're an

2:35:59introduction

2:36:03at the same

2:36:08when when do you all want this to come

2:36:10out?

2:36:13>> Okay. So, we got appointments on the

2:36:1525th. So we'll leave on the 25th hearing

2:36:18and then we'll work the planning with

2:36:21amendments the code mirror them together

2:36:25then kind of get process presentation

2:36:29before the appointments

2:36:31that all requested.

2:36:34>> Yes.

2:36:35>> Yes.

2:36:36>> And then we have five and remind me of

2:36:38the five appointments was there on four

2:36:41of them? There was just one that right?

2:36:45>> Um we didn't get any we didn't get any

2:36:48recommendations from the mayor for for

2:36:50any of the appointment we got no

2:36:53recommendations.

2:36:54So I think most boards have consensus

2:36:58but we didn't get any recommendations

2:37:00which is

2:37:02recommendations.

2:37:12>> Okay. It's a PowerPoint uh before the

2:37:15appointment presentation on the bid and

2:37:18then direction is given to to draft and

2:37:21ordinance and go

2:37:23for council to consider.

2:37:28>> Yes.

2:37:30for the on the 25th. Are you going to

2:37:31give us I mean my understanding we have

2:37:34four consensus

2:37:37will you be able to tell us a little bit

2:37:39about what wasn't consensus because that

2:37:41may sway some conversations

2:37:46>> sure I can do that now

2:37:54voted so I can just

2:37:58>> we have somebody who boards Yeah,

2:38:01>> that was Yes, that's

2:38:03>> taken care of.

2:38:06That's correct.

2:38:08>> Yes, another vacancy.

2:38:12>> So, you've got culture and arts that has

2:38:15several vacancies. You got parks and

2:38:16rag, you've got um planning board, and

2:38:21you've got multimodal

2:38:24four boards that are coming back. And

2:38:25each one of those toys has multiple

2:38:27positions and in some cases multiple

2:38:30categories. So like for parks and rec

2:38:32there's three regular positions plus a

2:38:34senior plus a

2:38:49>> uh any other

2:38:55Yes.

2:39:08>> All right.