2026-11-04 - Multimodal Transportation Advisory Board

01:03Yeah, that's brutal. You got your

01:05pediatric one?

01:05>> Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:06>> Over there in the party. Yeah, it does.

01:09Yeah, it does.

01:11>> Okay.

01:14>> Good.

04:05>> Mhm.

06:07>> Mhm.

08:10>> Mhm.

10:12>> Mhm.

10:56>> The chair of bicycle ambassador

10:59for our um

11:01I'll take my little place to try to

11:03shoot the lights out of here. So, thank

11:04you all for being here now.

11:05We're excited um today to have um

11:09one of our new

11:10appointed ambassadors for member. So, I

11:13want to welcome Ryan Shirley. Um and I

11:16think it'd be great if um Ryan you

11:18wouldn't mind just

11:20talking to tell us a little bit about

11:21yourself with real picture of bicycle

11:24music and and we'll be able to add your

11:26expertise to our bicycle board. So,

11:29thank you for your time and we're

11:30excited that you got appointed by the

11:32town council.

11:33And um

11:34we'll go ahead and

11:36let you just say a few words as a well

11:39I'll begin with like welcoming you and

11:41um let you just share your interests in

11:44being on the bicycle team.

11:46>> Okay.

11:48So, I'm Ryan Shirley. I'm actually from

11:50South Carolina, but I moved to North

11:52Carolina specifically to the Raleigh

11:53area because of tech jobs.

11:56And during COVID when everyone had

11:58nothing to do but spend their time on

12:00the internet, I got orange pilled. If

12:02you know what that means, you're my

12:02hero.

12:04Uh and then

12:05I wanted to live as car-free as

12:08possible. I was living in Clayton at the

12:10time in this massive single-family

12:12neighborhood.

12:13It was really the only place I could

12:14move to at the time cuz it's so

12:16expensive.

12:17But then when I did my research, I

12:19figured out a little bit more about the

12:20area. I moved to the Apex. I wanted to

12:23be in the a spot where I could walk to

12:25as much as it's possible. I actively

12:27wanted that. And

12:29I can walk to Food Lion, I can walk to

12:31church, I can walk to this, which I did

12:33today.

12:34And

12:35I love it. And it was actually worked

12:37out so well while being Orange Peel I

12:40actually sold my car and I have owned

12:43a couple of different e-bikes and a

12:44recreational bike that I

12:46sometimes bike all over the place with.

12:49And I take my child to school with the

12:52bike. It's it's fantastic. It It's

12:55basically like having a car but without

12:58paying for a car. Um

13:00I hope to bring that enthusiasm to the

13:03rest of the town and hopefully build out

13:06the rest of Apex to live car-lighter

13:09car-free. That might be a challenge if

13:12you don't live anywhere near a bus

13:13route, but

13:15That's what we're here to do. That's

13:16what we're here to

13:18See what parts of Apex we can bring that

13:20forward. And I'm really glad the town

13:23council

13:24voted me in and

13:26let's let's see what we can do together.

13:30>> Welcome.

13:30>> Thank you.

13:32>> Um since we're new and people want to

13:35you know introduce ourselves real

13:36quickly, we'll just go ahead and start

13:38with you and would you just do a quick

13:39introduction and then we'll get started.

13:41>> Okay.

13:42>> Um hi, my name is Nisha and I'm the

13:44youth representative for this board and

13:46I'm a senior in high school.

13:50>> I'm Noah.

13:52Um

13:53been on the board for only a year, so

13:56I'm I'm new to the to the board, but

13:59very excited to serve as vice chair

14:02and been in Apex for about 8 and 1/2

14:04years now.

14:05>> Very good.

14:07>> I'm Dana Beren, I'm the chair and I've

14:09um

14:09been living in Apex for about 25 years

14:12and I work at Wake Med and so excited

14:16that you joined us on Thanksgiving.

14:18They're more than welcome.

14:19>> I'm Elizabeth, also car free. We have so

14:21much in common. I've already learned

14:23that it loves the route 9.

14:24>> Yes.

14:25>> So, bravo to you here. I do about 50% of

14:28my errands on foot, and the rest kind of

14:31every bus that runs through Apex.

14:33>> Fantastic.

14:35>> Jennifer Aylor.

14:37Apex team.

14:39Eight.

14:39>> Eight, 89, somewhere in there.

14:41>> Um

14:42>> [clears throat]

14:42>> and uh I do drive. I'm not a regular bus

14:45user, but I would like more transit in

14:47the Apex area. Um just so I have another

14:49choice to get around here.

14:51>> Absolutely.

14:52>> It's good to hear everyone. Uh Town

14:54Council member, still mobile, uh

14:56but happy to have you all the team here.

14:58I'm the Council representative to the

15:00advisory board.

15:02Uh born and raised in the Netherlands,

15:03uh so you know much uh thought a little

15:06bit more intense than than the Apex

15:08system here in the Netherlands. The

15:09public transit, bikeability,

15:11walkability, uh also a little bit

15:12smarter.

15:13>> Sales are there.

15:14>> It's not entirely fair to compare, but

15:16uh you know I do bring with me some

15:17compassion and love. So

15:19Yeah, I've been involved in all sorts of

15:20transportation. Just happy to have you

15:22all coming to our

15:24I'm a recovering cyclist, so I have uh

15:26triathlon

15:28participants

15:30a couple times, so you can cover in

15:32there. So

15:33I'm still working on it, but um

15:36So yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:38I know it's like to hop on a bike and

15:41there are no

15:46And I appreciate seeing you guys' point

15:48of view and suggestions.

15:49to the board.

15:51>> Well, thank you for that. I actually

15:52didn't know you were from the

15:53Netherlands.

15:54>> Mhm.

15:54>> Uh when did you move?

15:56Uh how old were you?

15:57>> 97.

15:58So I was 23.

16:00>> Okay, so you you had a lot of exposure

16:01there.

16:02Uh you anywhere near Rotterdam,

16:04Amsterdam?

16:05>> I went to school in Rotterdam. I lived

16:06near there.

16:08Gouda, Gouda.

16:09>> Yeah, I'm about to

16:10>> Gouda, yeah. Um but it's uh

16:13I grew up small town in the Netherlands,

16:14so it's a little

16:16>> Okay. Fantastic.

16:17>> I went to public schools there. Yes,

16:18they are very small people.

16:20>> Yeah.

16:2110 years old and

16:23my knees are the dirt like in the bolts

16:24out.

16:25>> [laughter]

16:29>> Good afternoon, Ryan. We have Matt that

16:31Alan Bowman. It's a pleasure and

16:32privilege to serve the town park here.

16:35May I ask my first question? Um,

16:37we are your administrative contact if

16:39you need anything that you can't get

16:41from from Shannon or or need any

16:43assistance.

16:44Assistant with what?

16:46We're glad you're here. Okay, thank you.

16:50>> I'm the next and Katie Schwing, I'm the

16:51transit planner for the town.

16:53Um,

16:55I work with Shannon in the long-range

16:56side of the planning department. Um,

17:00I guess I can answer any transit related

17:01questions.

17:04>> Chris Watson, uh, long-range planner

17:06like all of us and I'm also the staff

17:08liaison. So, a lot of communication goes

17:10through me.

17:12>> We'll be We'll be fine.

17:13>> And if you've been to a Strong Towns

17:14rally meeting,

17:15>> Strong Towns everything.

17:19>> Um, and I'm Shannon Cox, uh, the

17:21long-range planning manager. I've been

17:23with the town, uh, over 10 years. It's

17:26been great. Love to work with the town.

17:28Um,

17:29great group to work with.

17:31We started and I started it, um, as a

17:33transit advisory committee and we've

17:36morphed over time. Some have been with

17:38us a really long time. Um, and others

17:40are new and that's great.

17:43>> Hi, I'm Jenna Shultz, I'm senior planner

17:45in our long-range division. All of my

17:47work is focused on bicycle and

17:48pedestrian planning.

17:50Safe Routes to School and feasibility

17:52studies.

17:54>> Fantastic.

17:55Thank you all.

17:59>> I'm Katie Schwing.

18:01This is the topic chain,

18:03um, has um, resigned.

18:06About two weeks So, we will be working

18:09to um, town council to make another

18:11appointment.

18:12When we get to

18:15the meeting when we're going to be

18:16having a meeting about this one. That's

18:18why that would be fine. We'll be having

18:19a meeting with them then. We'll

18:21We'll make sure to keep them in mind.

18:23That's why get through the agenda.

18:25Um at this point, um

18:28I'm basically asking if anybody has

18:29public comment.

18:30So, um

18:32we'll go ahead and move on to the next

18:34agenda item.

18:35>> Can I ask that everyone talk very loud?

18:37I have a little hearing loss, I'm having

18:39a hard time hearing the whole room.

18:41>> Okay. Sure.

18:44So, we'll call on Alan Comer.

18:46And Alan, you want to talk about the

18:48office for a little bit.

18:49Uh talk about the work plan and annual

18:53report for the Town Council.

18:55>> Sure.

18:56So, um

18:57let me know if if I'm not talking loud

18:58enough.

18:59Um so, for many of you know that the

19:02Town Council adopted a resolution about

19:04the Board of Administrative Policy back

19:06in July of 2025.

19:08And that kind of sets out the standards

19:11as it relates to attendance, membership

19:13regulations, composition, etc. beyond

19:15just what's included in the work plan.

19:17Uh included in the Board of

19:18Administrative Policy is a component

19:21around the annual report. And so, the

19:23annual report is to make sure that the

19:26public is fully briefed on the work that

19:28the Board has done over the last fiscal

19:30year. It allows an opportunity for the

19:33Board to propose any sort of additional

19:36scope of work or any additional

19:39needs that they feel that there are

19:41would be beneficial to the work that the

19:43Board is doing. It also covers um some

19:46transparency things. So, I know you

19:48members are on the Board, what does

19:49attendance look like? It um covers uh

19:53subcommittee work, etc. And so, it's

19:56really to make sure that the Council has

19:57full visibility as to what the Board is

19:59working on, and any sort of future

20:02proposed goals that the Board may have

20:04in the next fiscal year.

20:06Because the report is aligned with the

20:08fiscal year, it's also to help the

20:10Council if there's any sort of financial

20:12impact to the proposed goals, they are

20:15able to consider that as part of the

20:17budget process.

20:18And so, this will be the first round of

20:20annual reports since that uh policy was

20:23adopted. And so we met with staff and we

20:26are we've got the template kind of

20:28outline and we will be passing that

20:30along to your staff liaisons to work

20:32with the chair of your board. And this

20:34is for every advisory board.

20:36Um

20:37and then those will come back

20:39February-ish and

20:41>> [clears throat]

20:41>> present to council February-March

20:43timeframe. And so the goal is to allow

20:45the board an opportunity to provide any

20:48sort of input or insight, but it's

20:50really driven by the chair, the staff

20:53liaison working with the board itself to

20:56to develop out those goals. You all met

20:59um two work sessions ago to kind of

21:02define what transit priorities that you

21:04all had and and what those projects look

21:06like. And so I think there's a lot of

21:07objectives that already been

21:08established, but certainly if there's

21:10new things that we want you all to have

21:12an opportunity to to take a look at

21:13that. But then it's really a report of

21:16the progress and the work that had gone

21:18on from this board. And it's an

21:20opportunity for council to say, "Hey, we

21:22really appreciate this work.

21:25We're missing We're We're missing this

21:26component or we've forgotten about this

21:28or have you all considered X?" And so

21:31it's an another opportunity for a

21:33two-way dialogue. Uh sometimes I think

21:35in the past um board members were

21:38appointed they kind of served throughout

21:40their term and they never really felt

21:42like they got feedback back from

21:44council. Is our work being effective?

21:46Are we not? Etcetera. And so this is

21:48another way to make sure that that gap

21:51communication closed just a little bit

21:53um to to ensure that council is

21:55communicating to the board members what

21:57their expectations are. In addition to

21:59the board sharing, "Hey,

22:01here's what we've been told we could do,

22:02but we want to think creatively. Here's

22:04what we think is untapped areas of

22:07work that can be done." So hopefully

22:09that provides a little bit of context.

22:11I'll let the board and council members

22:12determine if he has anything that he

22:13wants to add um because it's really

22:15about making sure the board is not only

22:17staying within the purview of the

22:19ordinance and what the plans that are

22:20being adopted, but also thinking about

22:24of

22:24and how to do anything.

22:28Um

22:29Yeah, so

22:30kind of some of the last points that

22:32Allen made are are kind of the key in,

22:34right? So, the feedback that we got from

22:35our advisory boards is that they, you

22:38know, we do these meetings and then

22:40then what, right? Is this, you know,

22:43anything ever done with with, you know,

22:45what has been discussed? And

22:47so,

22:48we wanted to make the the whole

22:50interaction with the boards a little bit

22:51more constructive, right? And then not

22:54only um give the board a chance to read

22:57out to council that year what we've

22:59done, here's what our plans are, and so

23:02forth, um

23:03but also allow council them to offer

23:06some some feedback and guidance.

23:08Uh because what we found was was a

23:10little bit of a disconnect where there

23:12the boards were not really delivering

23:13what council was was hoping for, was

23:15expecting,

23:17uh and the boards were not really

23:18getting that feedback, right? So, they,

23:20you know, they kept meeting and and, you

23:22know, best efforts uh were put into it

23:24forward,

23:25but, you know, there was some some

23:27misalignment. So, um

23:29that's that's the part why we uh

23:32actually had no read out. We had

23:33discussed annually, we discussed

23:35quarterly at at the time, but that's,

23:37you know, became a little bit a little

23:38bit much for for the board's president

23:41in particular, right, to prepare these

23:43uh these briefings, and not all boards

23:44meet very frequently, so

23:46um but anyway, um we started with the

23:49annual and then we moved on to you know,

23:51maybe look at opportunities again to

23:53bring the boards in uh a little bit more

23:55frequently, and and really, you know,

23:57have more of a two-way dialogue there so

23:59that

24:00council is really getting

24:02guidance and input from the boards as,

24:04you know, as the boards are in

24:05attendance, but also, you know, have a

24:07little bit of the uh

24:08a process where they can offer some some

24:10feedback, right? Instead of holding

24:12members of the boards, uh and people go,

24:14"Well, what did I do, right? Or, you

24:16know, what did they Why are we not

24:18meeting expectations?" And nobody ever

24:20and and in the back and forth.

24:23So, um

24:24I think it's a great it's a great

24:25opportunity. It's it's a opportunity to

24:27shine the light on on each of these uh

24:29these president and advisory boards.

24:31earlier that

24:32the state didn't give you the sign of

24:33the

24:34strength and you make the time in the

24:36area available. I want to make sure that

24:39you know, we capitalize on that. We use

24:41that wisely, right? And and people are

24:44not just performing it.

24:53>> The planning is done on a fiscal year

24:56schedule, so July of

24:58July of 10. And so the report being

25:01compiled now will cover July through

25:03kind of this December period of time.

25:06The July through through the end.

25:08And then coming back and presenting and

25:10we initially had it to be presenting in

25:12January recognizing that with staff that

25:15there there was some

25:17additional time that may be needed and

25:18so we pushed that back into the February

25:20time frame, which still aligns nicely

25:22with the budget process if there's any

25:24budget information, but um that's the

25:27plan.

25:28>> I just wanted to give everyone a heads

25:29up and give you the prize of the annual

25:31report. And we know that it's covered in

25:33your ambassador orientation, which most

25:35of you have participated in.

25:38Um some more recently than others, but

25:40um it's covered in that as well.

25:42But we just wanted to remind the board

25:43that it's coming up time to do that.

25:46Um

25:47so you might be hearing or seeing

25:48something more from us.

25:53>> Excuse me,

25:55session two.

25:57And for the minutes of the heads up, I

25:58wanted to mention that.

26:00>> You're welcome. You're welcome. And just

26:01in case you're wondering,

26:03other communities do this.

26:05Other communities do have an annual

26:06report component and a requirement.

26:09Um so this is while this is something

26:11that this is a work on APEC is doing, it

26:14is something that other jurisdictions

26:16are are doing and we think it's a good

26:18model to follow just in terms of best

26:20communication practices.

26:30>> This is the point where we're going to

26:30go ahead and

26:31look at

26:33the Approving the minutes

26:36that

26:38we had in the past couple of months.

26:41And the first requested action would be

26:44approving the meeting minutes

26:47from

26:48July 8th and September 9th regular

26:51meetings.

26:53Is there any new

26:55discussion or any changes to anyone's

26:59satisfaction?

27:00>> I have a correction for July 8th. I had

27:03sent this to

27:05Brice and Allen. Hopefully you can help

27:07me explain if it's confusing. This is on

27:09page 15 of the agenda packet.

27:12>> They should be Everybody should have a

27:14copy of this one cuz I requested that

27:16you do.

27:17>> Oh, is it in the packet?

27:18>> Yes.

27:21Your your email request changes the

27:22middle of the packet of the minutes.

27:24Okay.

27:25>> Oh, bravo. Thank you. I had it right

27:28here and I didn't recognize it there.

27:30Okay, that makes it much easier. Thank

27:31you. So, there's a point in the minutes

27:35where Patrick Curley had asked

27:38why our statistics were higher during

27:40the winter months. It seemed confusing

27:42and not normal and not

27:44this is what we discuss and I had

27:47explained it's because this past winter

27:50when

27:52launched, there were more homeless

27:54people who were coming from Raleigh and

27:56from Cary and riding the bus in the

28:00worst weather. It is, you know, usually

28:02on rainy, cold, icy days when there were

28:04not local residents on the bus. It was

28:07just a few homeless people sitting on

28:08the back. But in the

28:11minutes as written up, all it says is

28:13that you talked about possible reasons

28:16behind an increase in ridership. And in

28:18fact, it had been a very definitive

28:20statement by me based on my observation,

28:22right? Not confirmed legalistic facts,

28:25but an observation. So, I thought we

28:27should be specific and have the word

28:29homeless in the minutes. Remember Brice

28:31shared her observation that homeless

28:33passengers live on the bus to stay warm

28:36during winter months.

28:44>> Just to clarify that

28:46page and what line number.

28:49>> That was page 15 of the entire agenda.

28:52Lines 30 through 32.

29:09It's a double number. So, it's page 13

29:11of the minutes, but page 15 of the

29:13entire So, it's the final page of what's

29:16been printed for you.

29:26Any other changes to the July list?

29:30The July

29:31>> meeting.

29:32>> meeting.

29:36>> [clears throat]

29:37>> If

29:38If not, um

29:39I I would like to make a motion to

29:41accept the minutes of the July 13th

29:43meeting and make edits on that.

29:47I would like to make a motion to accept

29:48the recommended

29:49Make a motion to approve.

29:51July 13th meeting.

29:53Is there a second?

29:55>> I'll second.

29:58>> There's a motion and a second.

30:00Um all those in favor, say "Aye." All

30:01those opposed, say "Nay."

30:02>> Aye.

30:03>> Anyone opposed?

30:06Okay, thank you.

30:07So, um then we're bringing up the

30:09September 9th, 2026 regular meeting. Are

30:12there any

30:13edits, recommendations for that?

30:17Those minutes?

30:19Not if you would like to entertain a

30:20motion to accept those minutes.

30:27I'll motion the September 2nd meeting.

30:29September 9th, thank you. Is there a

30:31second?

30:33Okay.

30:34Thank you.

30:35All those in favor, please say "Aye."

30:37All those opposed, say "Nay."

30:38>> Aye.

30:38>> move.

30:39>> Do you want to vote?

30:41Okay.

30:42The minutes for September 21st

30:45Anyone would like to look at the

30:46previous minutes from the September 21st

30:49Community Outreach Sub Committee

30:51meeting?

30:53I would

30:54Someone would like to make a motion.

30:56I move to approve

31:06I don't think you have to be on that

31:07committee to approve those.

31:08>> Okay. Is anyone going to make a motion

31:10for the same thing?

31:10>> Mhm. Yeah, yeah. We can go ahead and

31:13approve them.

31:14Um we can make a motion to

31:17>> I make a motion to approve the September

31:1921st meeting minutes.

31:21>> Is there a second?

31:23>> I second.

31:25>> I wish you would

31:26say "I"

31:27>> I I

31:28>> Do you want to vote?

31:30Thank you.

31:31Any minutes you would like to approve

31:33from the previous

31:34October 7th, November 12th

31:36Infrastructure Sub Committee meeting?

31:38Is there a motion to approve those?

31:39>> I move to approve the October 7th

31:42Infrastructure Sub Committee meeting

31:44minutes.

31:45>> Thank you.

31:46Is there a second on that?

31:48There's a motion and a second. All those

31:49in favor please say "I" and "Nay"

31:52>> I I

31:53>> Do you want to vote?

31:55Thank you.

31:56And then um approving the meeting

31:59minutes from October 27th and October

32:021st for the Safety and Accessibility Sub

32:05Committee meeting.

32:06Okay.

32:07With you.

32:09August 27th and October 1st

32:13Did I get your approval on that again?

32:14August 27th and October 1st

32:18Safety and Accessibility

32:20And I think that committee

32:21of course has been changed to the Safety

32:23and Accessibility Sub Committee.

32:26>> I was going to discuss that because do

32:28we have to have two separate remotes for

32:31October 27th and October August 27th and

32:35October 1st because at that time it

32:36wasn't called the Safety and

32:38accessibility subcommittee?

32:40Or can we do both?

32:43>> [clears throat]

32:43>> And like historically change the name of

32:45the

32:46subcommittee?

32:48>> Um let's just for these um and and

32:51making sure we identify them separately

32:54when speaking separately. Let's um

32:57Let's

32:58Let's uh start with October 27th safety

33:01subcommittee.

33:02And uh

33:03separate those out. Make a motion

33:06for August 1st now.

33:07>> August 21st?

33:08>> You don't keep saying

33:10What am I saying?

33:11>> October.

33:11>> October.

33:12>> [laughter]

33:12>> August 27th.

33:14>> August 27th is a good day.

33:15>> Yeah, I'm sorry.

33:16>> It's true.

33:17>> I'm going to get August

33:19August 27th. Is there a motion on the

33:21floor to accept those minutes?

33:2727th.

33:29Safety subcommittee.

33:30Is there a second?

33:32>> I second.

33:33>> There's a motion on the floor.

33:34All those in favor, please state it by

33:36saying "Aye."

33:37>> Aye.

33:38>> Any opposed?

33:40Any opposed?

33:42Uh

33:42we have the last minutes of the October

33:451st

33:46safety and accessibility subcommittee.

33:50Is there a motion on the floor?

33:54>> I make a motion to

33:56accept the October 1st week minutes.

34:00>> Is there a second?

34:01>> Uh for the safety and accessibility

34:02subcommittee.

34:04>> I second. Okay.

34:06There's a motion and a second.

34:08All those in favor, please state it by

34:10"Aye."

34:11>> Aye.

34:12>> Any opposed?

34:17Appreciate that.

34:18>> [clears throat]

34:19>> Appreciate everybody taking the time to

34:20really look through that and provide

34:21feedback.

34:24This brings me on

34:26to the next agenda item, which is the

34:295-year capital improvement

34:32the capital

34:33infrastructure subcommittee members.

34:37>> So one of the work plan tasks for the

34:40infrastructure subcommittee is to

34:42provide input on the capital improvement

34:44plan. So, that's been the focus of our

34:46last two meetings. So, I want to start

34:48out with an overview of the capital

34:50improvement plan annual process, how

34:53that's developed over time, and then

34:55some input opportunities.

34:57So, starting at the top of the figure on

34:59the left, so in the July to September

35:02time frame, staff evaluates and adds new

35:05projects and considers the

35:06prioritization of unapproved of

35:09unapproved projects from the previous

35:11fiscal year. And then right now where we

35:13are in the October to December time

35:15frame,

35:16the draft CIP is completed and the staff

35:19a staff committee scores projects

35:21against an evaluation matrix and the

35:24budget priority survey is conducted. And

35:26that's currently open and on the website

35:28if anyone's interested in taking that

35:29survey.

35:31And then in the January to December,

35:33excuse me, the December to January time

35:34frame,

35:36the CIP is presented to council and the

35:39project survey tool is compiled and

35:40distributed to council.

35:42And then in February, the prioritization

35:45results are received and discussed by

35:47town council at their annual retreat.

35:50And then in the March to May timeline,

35:52town council the town council directed

35:54CIP is used as the basis for developing

35:57the upcoming fiscal year budget.

36:00And then the final step in the April to

36:01June timeline, budget public hearings

36:04are held at every town council meeting

36:06within that time frame following the

36:08budget presentation.

36:10And where the public has opportunity to

36:12provide input as well.

36:14And then I want to provide these few key

36:17times for input. The one I mentioned

36:19first is that budget priority survey

36:21that opened on October 1st and will

36:24close on December 1st.

36:26>> [clears throat]

36:26>> And then input is requested from this

36:29group prior to December 1st and before

36:32the town council work session on the

36:34CIP.

36:36And then a pre-budget public hearing is

36:39held for town council on January 12th.

36:42And then again, there are public

36:44hearings at every council meeting

36:46between April 27th and June 8th.

36:49So, this is the annual process, kind of

36:50to lead

36:52good understanding of how this works

36:53before we get into the details of

36:55projects.

37:00So, now we'll get into the

37:00infrastructure subcommittee's priority

37:02projects.

37:04And Noah's going to go through the ones

37:06that I've highlighted, but I wanted to

37:08give you an overview of what this slide

37:09includes. So, you have this in a paper

37:12copy

37:14at your desk.

37:15And so, this is preliminary, this is the

37:18staff requested CIP. This is not the

37:21adopted CIP that's available online.

37:24So, it divides by fiscal year starting

37:27with FY18, so the upcoming fiscal year

37:30first, so 2027-2028.

37:32And then, for the

37:33The CIP is a 5-year plan, and then

37:36there's a future year column.

37:38And that final row is the total cost

37:42estimate, or the total cost for that

37:44fiscal year for the transportation

37:46element. And then, the final column is

37:48the total capital cost over the 5-year

37:51period plus the future years for each

37:53project.

37:55And at the last infrastructure

37:57subcommittee meeting, the committee

37:59provided input on priority projects for

38:02multimodal transportation. I'll hand it

38:04over to Noah to run through those, and

38:06then I have slides to get into the

38:08details of each.

38:09>> Thank you, Jenna.

38:11So,

38:12as she mentioned, we met as a committee

38:13last week

38:14our subcommittee last week to go over

38:17all of these recommended projects from a

38:21prioritization standpoint. I just for

38:23your background knowledge, there was

38:26a more drafted version of this, and that

38:29wasn't necessarily reflected on here,

38:32but I think staff did a great job

38:35piling all the projects and putting them

38:38into

38:39um this preliminary format. So, just

38:42want

38:43you all to understand that this wasn't

38:46uh taken in a vacuum. It was um

38:49carefully gone through and much

38:51appreciated, very informative when we

38:53met. So,

38:56what you see is a list of prioritized

38:59projects from a multimodal

39:02uh

39:03infrastructure standpoint. What I mean

39:06by that is you can probably make an

39:08argument that almost every single of

39:10these projects

39:12is important from a

39:14pedestrian, a bus, or uh

39:17cycling standpoint, but what we as a

39:20subcommittee wanted council and staff to

39:23understand is that these projects

39:25are uh critically important to maintain

39:28the infrastructure of the town.

39:31So, the Apex Peakway North widening,

39:34that project is underway already, so

39:37there's no really stopping the train, so

39:40to speak, for that. Um

39:42so, moving forward, there wasn't

39:45necessarily anything that we that we

39:47questioned. Uh safe routes to school, so

39:50that preliminary $2.35 million includes,

39:54I think, Council Avenue, Apex BBQ,

39:58and Kelly Road, Salem Church Road, uh

40:01sidewalk design piece, and Richardson

40:04Road sidewalk design and right of way.

40:07So,

40:08that was another piece from a multimodal

40:11standpoint. S Line mobility, uh

40:15uh West Williams sidewalk,

40:19uh pretty self-explanatory.

40:22One thing that as a subcommittee we

40:25questioned was the possibility for Go

40:28Apex annual improvement in FY28.

40:32And from our understanding from staff,

40:34that's just a pure capacity standpoint,

40:36so as much as we would love for FY28 to

40:39have

40:41um opportunities for Go Apex annual

40:43improvement included in the budget,

40:45um

40:46staff's ability to execute that relative

40:50to all the other projects on their plate

40:52um was uncertain.

40:55Uh and then if you look further down

40:57with some of the

40:58larger bucket of safe route school

41:01projects

41:02um

41:04there are

41:06at least from our perspective

41:09there's no reason why we prioritize one

41:12safe route versus the other.

41:14Uh

41:15we didn't have the

41:17knowledge or

41:19uh

41:21reason to say that Green Level Church

41:23side path versus Rich- Richardson Road

41:26versus Salem Church Road should be

41:29prioritized one versus the other.

41:34Same same with the

41:36three projects further down.

41:39It's my understanding correctly but that

41:41those ones required kind of prerequisite

41:44items to occur in order to get to that

41:47point or there there's other factors at

41:50play

41:51that uh

41:54would

41:54effectively prevent the town from

41:56starting any sooner

41:59even if we had all the money in the

42:01world.

42:02Is that Is that correct?

42:04>> Yeah, capacity [clears throat]

42:05to design and

42:07>> Exactly.

42:07>> and develop those projects.

42:08>> Exactly. So

42:10I'll pause there

42:12um

42:13the the get feedback from the larger

42:16group on if you think one

42:18there are any

42:19project not necessarily that the this

42:22committee would say yes or no but any

42:26that we wants we want council to say hey

42:29this is really important for

42:32uh

42:34an intact sanctuary.

42:36That's number one and then number two is

42:40does this committee have any reason to

42:41think that one safe route to school

42:45project should be prioritized over

42:48another specifically in FY29.

42:52>> You know, did you want to highlight that

42:53Olive Chapel Road signal as well?

42:56>> Yes,

42:58the Olive Chapel Road

43:00Apex Barbecue Road improvements. That

43:02one is near and dear to my heart cuz I

43:04pass that every day, twice today in

43:05fact. But it's my understanding that the

43:08town is in the process of obtaining

43:10right of way. So that is the reason why

43:13that one was kicked to FY 29 from FY 28.

43:20>> Maybe I missed this, but what what

43:22do the high rises depict in the picture?

43:25>> What, as an infrastructure subcommittee,

43:28we felt

43:30are important from a multimodal

43:32standpoint.

43:33So not that

43:34that they're all important, but we just

43:36want four

43:38educational awareness be to the projects

43:40that would really benefit the town from

43:42an impact standpoint.

43:45>> Thank you.

43:46>> You're welcome.

43:49>> Um,

43:49is there any way like we could get

43:52what schools

43:54squash community during

43:57when school starts or when school ends?

43:59Like

44:00for example, when cuz I go to Green

44:02Level, um there are a lot of communities

44:05near our school, so the students have to

44:08really big road. So I feel like we

44:10should fund that, but I'm not saying

44:12that we should prioritize schools cuz I

44:15don't know

44:17how to prioritize schools.

44:19Olive Chapel

44:22>> We have data when we meet with the

44:23principals about every other year. One

44:26of the that items that I ask them or the

44:28assistant principal is how many student

44:30walkers and bikers to have an idea that

44:33gives us an idea. I don't know if

44:34traffic you're referring to drivers or

44:37walkers and bikers, but that gives us a

44:39data point for

44:41how many people are currently walking or

44:42biking to school.

44:45>> Yeah, I was talking about both.

44:48Cuz

44:49the Green Level there is like the

44:51curbing lane is right next to where the

44:53walkers are. I mean, since school as

44:56well. So, yeah. I was just saying that

44:59um I think the data would be helpful if

45:02we walked the bike down. We walked the

45:05No.

45:14>> Salem Church Road, one is fascinating to

45:16me.

45:18I haven't seen a map. I've I've tried on

45:22many of these plans I talked to Ken

45:24online. I haven't seen a map of the one

45:26for Salem Church Road. Everyone They're

45:28going to think I bring that up.

45:30>> It's You have the map It's between

45:32Dotson Way and public green lights.

45:40>> Some of it's being constructed by

45:42private development, so we're filling in

45:43the gap.

45:46That's to get to Lower Park Elementary.

45:50>> Oh.

45:53Okay, that's not a Salem Church.

45:56>> Okay. Yeah, the one that's

45:57>> Okay.

45:59So, selfishly, I would like that one

46:01because it's a huge gap as a bicyclist

46:04to get from Apex to Cary, at least as as

46:08long as we're waiting for a Davis Drive

46:10to be

46:11uh re-aligned.

46:13Uh

46:16>> Jenna, I think it might be helpful, and

46:19I know there's a lot to it, but if you

46:21could briefly recap how Safe Routes to

46:24School projects are prioritized.

46:27>> Yeah.

46:27>> I could I pull up our website?

46:32I think I could That would help me.

46:34>> I don't know if it's We have a really

46:35big spreadsheet that lists a lot of

46:36things. The one sheet on the website has

46:38a good list of them.

46:53>> [clears throat]

46:57>> You have the uh

46:59You have a base of all the sidewalk and

47:02sidewalk gaps in town.

47:04And there

47:06there

47:07scores and they have a general sidewalk.

47:10Let me open that in a second. But

47:11there's a PRI level priority that is

47:13assigned to each one.

47:15We'll get it

47:18>> [laughter]

47:25>> We use the We use the number factor.

47:27Some of the key ones are here. It's the

47:28weather or not Have Have you been

47:30talking about whether or not it provides

47:31safe access to school. If there's been a

47:33citizen request, so there's

47:36um a form on the website if someone

47:39sees the need for a sidewalk, they can

47:41submit that form. It comes in my inbox

47:43and I get our spreadsheet.

47:45And then whether there's an observed

47:47physical pedestrian route. So if they

47:49include that in their submission or if

47:51staff have observed or were out at a

47:54building and someone mentioned so I'll

47:55think this is a place where we update

47:58it.

47:59The observed pedestrian route. Then

48:01crash information. So if there's been a

48:03bicycle or pedestrian crash along that

48:05sidewalk gap.

48:07As well as if it's within the high crash

48:09network or injury network and that's

48:11part of the town's vision to do

48:13work. So looking at crashes in both

48:17contexts.

48:18And then the facility type. So in in

48:21this case, primary road context,

48:22thoroughfares, which are

48:24major roadways, receive a higher

48:26priority than collectors. Those receive

48:28a higher priority than residential

48:29streets.

48:31And then the context.

48:33The town is divided into four contexts.

48:36And we prioritize those within the town

48:38center, which is primarily within the

48:40peak way. And then transit-oriented

48:42development, places where we have

48:44existing and planned transit.

48:46Those two contexts are prioritized.

48:48There's also the suburban and rural and

48:51those aren't

48:52So those don't get as many points. They

48:54get a lower score but we want to promote

48:56and walking and biking within the main

48:58research.

49:00And then whether there's a reasonable

49:01route

49:02alternate route available. So, if

49:04there's a sidewalk on the other side of

49:06the street or if there's a parallel

49:08street nearby, maybe it's in the

49:09neighborhood, but there's a pretty

49:11direct alternate route.

49:12So, we don't So, we don't really put

49:14them in the resource list because we

49:16allocate the needs to where they're

49:17truly needed.

49:19And then we look at the destination

49:20within a quarter mile.

49:22I don't have the full list with me, but

49:24it's

49:26parks,

49:27schools, libraries, apartment complexes,

49:30shopping centers, number of places where

49:32you'd want to walk to buy things.

49:35And then existing and proposed bus stops

49:38within a quarter mile. And then we also

49:39look at GoApex ridership.

49:42And then taking cost cost and

49:45feasibility into consideration,

49:47whether or not the sidewalk gap is less

49:50than a quarter mile in length, it's a

49:51little bump up cuz that's more

49:54achievable with manual allocation of

49:56funding. And whether or not it crosses a

49:58significant barrier. So, this doesn't

50:01come into play very often, but if

50:03there's you're crossing a major roadway

50:05as part of this project. And then

50:07there's one subjective piece to this

50:09that staff, based on conversations with

50:11principals and observations and

50:14conversations with with the public,

50:16there's a relative need piece. So,

50:19that's the subjective piece that we can

50:20give it a high, medium, or low relative

50:22need and that gives us the weighted

50:24score. So, these are primarily the the

50:27things that are considered to score the

50:29projects. And then we have to look at

50:31cost and getting them completed over

50:33time and that influences the staff the

50:36outcome of the projects.

50:39>> Thank you, Jenna. Appreciate that.

50:41>> And I don't know if your website

50:43features the information map.

50:44Um the West Williams uh sidewalk

50:47project.

50:48>> What is the like scope cuz I know West

50:50Williams is a very

50:52broad

50:53>> You can look at that on the website.

50:55>> I know we looked at that map before.

50:57Um where is

50:59the sidewalk project? Just want to

51:00figure out which one it is.

51:03>> So, it's it's new. figure eight creek.

51:06>> Mhm.

51:06>> Okay.

51:07It's the the main feature

51:09I don't know what the main feature is.

51:11Widening

51:12the sidewalk on the bridge over 64 and

51:14adding a vertical barrier.

51:15>> Okay. Yes.

51:16>> And then it's back to

51:18And then and then filling in the gaps

51:19between

51:20the Indian Valley and Figure Eight Creek

51:21on

51:22the bottom

51:24>> Please.

51:26>> [laughter]

51:27>> Oh my goodness, that would be such a

51:29>> my catalyst.

51:31>> Can I ask what the so in the

51:34the preliminary CFD request plan

51:37Sabre Road school for 2018 is

51:39unspecified. What's is included whereas

51:42all the other line items didn't seem to

51:44refer to specific projects.

51:46>> This one is

51:47because it's automated

51:49in fact building

51:51We have to make it big that came in that

51:52were really hard.

51:54So we want to make sure we look at the

51:55leader

51:57and Sabre Road.

52:00So it's

52:02um

52:03This one is a gift. The design and

52:05right-of-way phase the town storm water

52:06setting for a little bit a big portion

52:08of right-of-way that we got from the

52:10main

52:11Um all phases of the impacts Sabre Road

52:14and impacts impacts are two roads side

52:18by side and another side road.

52:20The design phase of that Sabre Church

52:22Road and the side road.

52:23And then the design and right-of-way

52:24phase

52:25on the church road.

52:27>> [clears throat]

52:27>> The budget is going to I don't even know

52:30how to get the money submitted.

52:32The budget is we're planning to combine

52:36the one that overlaps here. Like for

52:38example, Sabre Church Road also has a

52:41line here. They're going to combine

52:42them.

52:44So it'll change in the future.

52:50And I have individual slides for the

52:51other ones that never aligned.

52:58>> But to answer your question from earlier

53:00to the chair, it sounds like when these

53:02were prioritized

53:04some of the data

53:06and other data points were taken into

53:09consideration when they were prior-

53:11prioritized against the matrix.

53:12>> Mhm.

53:15Okay. That's now I like it in in your

53:18recommendation. So, you highlighted

53:19these as okay, these we believe are

53:21important from a multi-modal transport

53:23of view.

53:24Um is there a

53:27more specific task here? You know, for

53:29example, the three that are towards the

53:31bottom that are kind of outliers. Right?

53:34Is there a specific task to pull those

53:36in and I can say, "Hey, can we do this

53:38sooner?"

53:40Um so, I understand you you kind of said

53:42that these are important to us.

53:45But are you tying that to an actual

53:47recommendation and also say, "Hey, we

53:50recommend that we address this in 2029

53:53instead of waiting until, you know, 30

53:55or 31?"

53:57>> So, good question. So,

53:59our recommendation is to move forward

54:02with the FY28 and FY29 projects as

54:06indicated in their budget. And as far as

54:09these ones down the

54:12down further below, as much as we would

54:13love to prioritize them earlier, which

54:16would be a recommendation, it's our

54:18understanding that due to capacity and

54:21milestones that have to have to happen

54:23before

54:24>> [clears throat]

54:24>> you know, at that point, that as much as

54:26we would want to move them up,

54:29we don't have that

54:30ability.

54:32>> So, there is.

54:35My council point of view on that.

54:37If we believe that this is important

54:41for a couple of other stuff you

54:42mentioned, right? Like, you know, the

54:44staff anything there there has to be

54:45staying there there, too.

54:48Um

54:51a recommendation can have both the

54:53capital and operating expense.

54:56If we say, "Hey, look, this is really

54:58important to the town

55:00and from a multi-modal point of view, we

55:02recommend

55:03that we don't wait for you to

55:05I start doing this now, you know?"

55:07Well, thanks, Ronald.

55:09We want to pull another, you know,

55:10$200,000 forward.

55:13Staff came and said, "Okay, that's

55:14great, but you also got to find me

55:16$100,000 for Peppers staff or any other

55:20company

55:22to fill in the capacity that we need."

55:27A little bit more thinking, right? Uh

55:29and then, you know, the staff obviously

55:31needs to be okay with that.

55:33But

55:35just because we don't have capacity

55:37doesn't mean that

55:38we should automatically have to exclude

55:40it. I mean, if if

55:42you feel strongly with it, the committee

55:44feels strongly that this is a project

55:46that needs to be prioritized,

55:48then you can do

55:50staff, you know, and then and then the

55:52department directors can work out the

55:53what what's the implication

55:56if we were to do that.

55:57Right? Is there another, you know,

55:59project out there that needs to be put

56:00on the table that then correlates to the

56:03capital plan?

56:05>> So, all completely understood. From our

56:08subcommittee's standpoint, we did not

56:11think that

56:12there was a reason to prioritize the

56:15capital expense any sooner than the year

56:18indicated on the plan, which then would

56:20mean

56:22from our understanding that a different

56:23project, money being all else equal,

56:26that we would have to replace

56:28the project that we would forward

56:30with a different project.

56:32>> So, I I appreciate that.

56:34>> We did not think

56:35>> I I just wanted to make sure that

56:37it was thought about.

56:38>> Yeah, it was it was thought about in

56:40trying to balance

56:42the additional staff that would need to

56:44be done to

56:46start any safe route to schools

56:49um these to, you know, for Olive Chapel,

56:52Mount Zion Church, or Lower Duncan any

56:54sooner than what was indicated.

56:58>> I have one more quick question

57:00just to make sure I'm reading your chart

57:01correctly. Um

57:03if you go to page 10, you know, the

57:05commitments not having

57:07a monetary line item for

57:08>> 28.

57:09>> 28. Does that funding want started till

57:11fiscal year 29?

57:14>> I mean, to me that seems like quite a

57:16gap. Like I know that I think they would

57:18fund the 8 year improvements.

57:20But then there's Is that a 3 year gap

57:22then for 27 funding? Or is there 27

57:25funding to go with that same year

57:27improvements?

57:28>> Yeah, I can clarify that. Um we have

57:32FY15, 26, and 27

57:36GoApex improvements still in the queue

57:39that we're working through.

57:41So the staff recommendation was pause

57:43for FY18 and request funding again for

57:46FY19 because we're also building new bus

57:49stops.

57:51So that that was the staff

57:52recommendation.

57:53>> The projects are currently in the works

57:55for FY18.

57:57It is.

57:58For 28, is there cash flow?

58:00The things that have to get done.

58:01>> Yes, so that there will be work going

58:03through 28, ongoing work to improve bus

58:06stops and build new bus stops.

58:09Um we just didn't think we needed to

58:11request more funding for FY18 because we

58:14have so much in the works.

58:16>> Do I have four GoApex priorities? Let me

58:19throw these out and see how they match

58:21what staff is already planning and what

58:23the committee might support. First would

58:25be faster roll out of shelter benches at

58:28bus stops for weather protection. I

58:31think non-riders, residents, when they

58:33think about the bus, they just feel

58:35sympathy for the pitiful people who are

58:37out there in the heat or the cold or the

58:39rain and unprotected stops is a real

58:42barrier to ridership. And it definitely

58:44for people who ride the bus, it means

58:46that you don't ride on bad weather days.

58:48So that we really get shelters on more

58:51stops and we do that faster. We treat

58:53because it's urgent, sort of health

58:55issue. And also overcoming reluctance to

58:58try the bus. The second one for me, and

59:00I had some slides to talk about at the

59:03end of this session and uh other

59:05business, is adding a Walmart adjacent

59:08bus stop. I think making that easier to

59:11get to Walmart would really a food

59:13convenience for the bus.

59:15Third for me is relocating the dangerous

59:18right turn road bus stop at Winning

59:21Street and Olive Chapel. We've talked

59:23about this at meeting before and Mr.

59:26Zimmerman seemed to have some support

59:28for that, but the bus drivers in my

59:30experience consider it the most

59:32dangerous.

59:33I'm one of the people who would normally

59:35use that as an exit from the bus and

59:37both I and the other rider who uses that

59:40Walmart stop, we don't like asking the

59:42drivers to stop there. It is so hard and

59:45dangerous for them to then force their

59:47way back into ongoing southern traffic.

59:51And then the fourth for me

59:53is the unexpected problem at the

59:55municipal building layover point because

59:58passengers are being forced to

1:00:00disembark. And I've talked about it at

1:00:02other meetings. So, we really need

1:00:04better lighting and security. I

1:00:06personally would no longer I no longer

1:00:09ride GoApex after dark because I don't

1:00:12think it's safe there, right? More

1:00:14homeless people riding. I've had now

1:00:17homeless mentally ill passengers.

1:00:19They're more noticeable, people with

1:00:21active auditory hallucinations. It just

1:00:24doesn't feel as safe as the bus did a

1:00:26year ago. And that bus stop at the

1:00:28municipal building, being forced off the

1:00:30bus and the bus driver circles back and

1:00:33it's just you sitting there. You feel

1:00:34really vulnerable after dark. So, that's

1:00:37probably not too expensive, but I feel

1:00:39like that's something we should be

1:00:40fixing as fast as

1:00:43Any of that already on your list,

1:00:45Shannon?

1:00:47>> So, I think that Katie might want to

1:00:50speak [clears throat] to this. I think

1:00:51that um some of those could fall under

1:00:55GoApex bus stop improvements.

1:00:57Um we do have a policy

1:01:00that we follow for identifying and

1:01:02prioritizing those improvements. Um so,

1:01:05I think we'd have to look at each one

1:01:07specifically. Some of these have already

1:01:08been looked at. So, do you want to add

1:01:10anything?

1:01:12>> Yeah, I mean

1:01:13um

1:01:15We're aware of all of these things.

1:01:17Um some of these things may

1:01:20seem like simple fixings, but actually

1:01:22take a lot more time than you think they

1:01:24would to work through, and we are in the

1:01:26process of working through those. Some

1:01:28of these will be addressed through our

1:01:29FY25 capital improvement batch is

1:01:34awaiting to be obtained for capital

1:01:35improvement right now.

1:01:37It takes a long time.

1:01:39Um

1:01:39and you know, the the Walmart stuff we

1:01:42talked about earlier, but

1:01:45there are

1:01:46private land map, you know, zoning

1:01:49agreements to Walmart that we need to

1:01:52work through to be able to get my

1:01:53avenues to make happen.

1:01:56Um and we're, you know, even working

1:01:58with IT and making

1:01:59with private the see what we can do

1:02:02about improving security at the

1:02:04uh

1:02:05labor

1:02:07location as well. So, all these are in

1:02:08progress. Um you have to ignore them.

1:02:11They're

1:02:12They just take time.

1:02:14>> Thank you. Never hurts to stress the

1:02:16urgency when one has a chance. On a

1:02:19different topic, I have a question about

1:02:21the bike lane, and I'm glad Ryan is here

1:02:23to be much more expert than I. For the

1:02:26South Salem Street bicycle connection,

1:02:29thrilled. I'm a big supporter of that,

1:02:31even though I don't ride a bike

1:02:32personally. Is that only a painted bike

1:02:35lane, or is there going to be any

1:02:37protection between cars and the

1:02:39cyclists?

1:02:40>> So, we're in the like preliminary design

1:02:42phase right now. There'll be a public

1:02:43meeting on December 3rd with

1:02:46the

1:02:47the more details. There'll be renderings

1:02:49of what that could look like. It's going

1:02:51to be a mix of facilities ranging from

1:02:54shared lane markings, side path, and

1:02:57striped bike lanes.

1:03:04>> Well, I'll just say cuz I'm not very

1:03:06smart about it, but here's what experts

1:03:08on the internet seem to think is

1:03:10helpful. Reflective flexible posts,

1:03:13wheel stops, concrete curbs, flower

1:03:16planters, and Jersey barriers. I had

1:03:19written that list before I knew you were

1:03:20here, Ron, so

1:03:21>> Yeah, I've heard all this with the

1:03:22Jersey barrier. I know I've seen it

1:03:24before. Yeah.

1:03:25>> This I'll note that where bike lanes are

1:03:27planned, there are sections where

1:03:30I don't have it in front of me, but

1:03:31buffers are included.

1:03:33Like a a striped buffer. But we're not

1:03:35looking at vertical separation aside

1:03:37from the side path section.

1:03:39>> Yeah.

1:03:40>> So,

1:03:41as a biking perspective, obviously we

1:03:43can make this one connection as flawless

1:03:46as possible, but from a town

1:03:48perspective, we also need to focus on

1:03:51entropy

1:03:52where all destinations are equal in

1:03:56getting to as safe as possible. Cuz

1:03:59clearly we could we could do something

1:04:00crazy like add a pedestrian bridge and

1:04:03it'd be fantastic to get from South

1:04:05Salem to downtown from Pleasant Park.

1:04:09Uh but going over an interstate like

1:04:11that, a future interstate or a highway,

1:04:14they definitely need more than I think

1:04:15they need more than just a

1:04:17a painted line.

1:04:19Uh I like the side path that's already

1:04:21on Salem Street right now going down

1:04:25towards Pleasant Park.

1:04:27Uh but if you're crossing the

1:04:28interstate, uh if anyone knows the

1:04:31barrier that's near Beaver Creek where

1:04:35it crosses 64, I think at minimum you

1:04:38need a concrete wall between you and the

1:04:42rest of the cars, especially coming off

1:04:44of a highway.

1:04:45If if you're asking for recommendations

1:04:48or a version that that that works. Uh

1:04:50but I will definitely be at the December

1:04:53uh public forum to to see what effect is

1:04:57already planned.

1:04:58>> That'd be great. But I will note we hear

1:04:59mixed

1:05:01forcing a cyclist into a barrier area

1:05:04can cause some safety concerns if

1:05:06there's

1:05:07an obstacle, if there's an object in

1:05:09there, they're kind of trapped.

1:05:10>> That is true.

1:05:11>> Just something to consider.

1:05:13>> That is true.

1:05:15Uh now it would be quite a long barrier,

1:05:17too.

1:05:19Uh

1:05:21Yeah, if any

1:05:23any and all thoughts are are just being

1:05:28heard right now. So, uh

1:05:33>> Yeah, the December 3rd meeting is a

1:05:34great time. There'll be renderings to

1:05:35show what this could look like.

1:05:39>> Yeah, I'm definitely not on any

1:05:41transportation

1:05:42uh

1:05:44board or I get I am on the board, but

1:05:46I'm not on the I'm not

1:05:48>> a staff member?

1:05:49>> Uh so, I I I haven't like literally

1:05:51spent hours researching this and like

1:05:53talking to people, but like as a

1:05:55cyclist, I can just tell you what I find

1:05:56comfortable

1:05:58in in certain areas. Obviously,

1:06:01by definition, the safest way for anyone

1:06:03anyone to be on a bike is just to have

1:06:05interaction with as

1:06:06little cars as possible.

1:06:08Uh but that that barrier like if someone

1:06:12put a shopping cart in there, which

1:06:13could totally happen,

1:06:15that would be quite unfortunate.

1:06:16>> If we have the width to do something

1:06:18wider on both sides, that would be

1:06:19great.

1:06:20But we're so limited to keep the two

1:06:22travel lanes,

1:06:24some narrow median,

1:06:26and then the width for bike lane. That

1:06:28That is That's one of the more

1:06:30constrained sections in this part.

1:06:32>> Right.

1:06:33Whatever happens there, definitely needs

1:06:35to be

1:06:37two lane like 10-ft something, either a

1:06:41painted buffer or a side path,

1:06:43because you're not going to be able to

1:06:45cross the street on Salem Street uh on

1:06:48that highway and then come back.

1:06:50You know what I mean?

1:06:52>> Cross the street where?

1:06:54>> Like imagine if they was you go right on

1:06:56the right side of the road, and you go

1:06:58left on the left side of the road.

1:07:01Uh but here, like you have to be on

1:07:04the north side, because you're not

1:07:07you're not going to want to cross the

1:07:08street just to cross the bridge and then

1:07:09cross the street again to get on the

1:07:11side path.

1:07:15Anyway,

1:07:16>> I think we're going to need to look at

1:07:17the design

1:07:18map when it's

1:07:20>> Look [clears throat] at that.

1:07:22>> December 3rd

1:07:23>> I think

1:07:25>> Is the meeting

1:07:26will be here it will be lasted to be

1:07:28here at 4.

1:07:31>> Please cut me off whenever otherwise I

1:07:32am

1:07:38I would have every road design like the

1:07:40net

1:07:42If you keep me talking but I

1:07:44That's the whole thing.

1:07:46They have 50 years to make their roads

1:07:48and make sure they are like

1:07:51>> That's just someone.

1:07:58So to go back to your comment earlier

1:08:00Jennifer about why there was a gap in FY

1:08:032018.

1:08:05Do you still have concerns? Are you

1:08:07recommending

1:08:09>> concerns still up the go way to be in

1:08:11priority of the transit go way ridership

1:08:13since the system

1:08:14the proposed improvements need to

1:08:16continue and I guess

1:08:19a better understanding of what the

1:08:21current list of projects looks like 2026

1:08:24and 2027

1:08:25will make me more confident that they

1:08:27will actually happen.

1:08:29It sounds more like a

1:08:30objective to do list with that a little

1:08:32bit. So if there's no funding allocated

1:08:35in 2028

1:08:36is the money we have a lot of 2026 and

1:08:382027 going to be enough to complete the

1:08:41proposed projects for go way next.

1:08:44I guess my question.

1:08:46>> So I'm sketching it out right now. It

1:08:48should be guys basically through our

1:08:51existing bus stop improvement policy. Um

1:08:56recommendations for go way

1:08:58route one.

1:08:59Um

1:09:00we will also be working on building new

1:09:03bus stops for you know future service

1:09:06needs

1:09:07in the same time which is although a lot

1:09:11of

1:09:12work

1:09:13doing another round while we're also

1:09:16building new bus stops it will be more

1:09:17cost effective. So that is the reason

1:09:19for for that gap years. Um

1:09:22we do also you know if we find we end up

1:09:25being over budget for whatever reason,

1:09:29we have the ability to,

1:09:32you know,

1:09:33request more grant funding or or things

1:09:35like that through an amendment process

1:09:37that we can use.

1:09:38We find it

1:09:40forbidding.

1:09:41For example,

1:09:42rather than applying for another year

1:09:45of

1:09:45grant funding. Um so, there's there's

1:09:48other ways we can we can,

1:09:51you know, adjust if

1:09:53we're we're having

1:09:56I don't

1:09:57know if it's

1:09:57>> [clears throat]

1:09:57>> mutual, but um

1:10:00we didn't want to have another year of

1:10:01grant funding to manage while we were

1:10:04still working through all of this.

1:10:07>> Kitty, in the last Safety and

1:10:08Accessibility Subcommittee meeting, you

1:10:10heard this possibility, wonderful,

1:10:12wonderful possibility, that we might get

1:10:14better vehicles to Morrisville. Is that

1:10:17happening and happening soon?

1:10:21>> We We still don't have a definitive

1:10:23answer, but nothing has changed for

1:10:27Go Triangle. Um

1:10:29we heard that this week Morrisville

1:10:31should be moving their fleet

1:10:34from

1:10:35the larger vehicles to the mini vans to

1:10:37the Smart Shuttle service.

1:10:39Bring up

1:10:40vehicle um from the Go Triangle fleet.

1:10:44Um

1:10:45there's there's a number of things they

1:10:47have to do to kind of transition it from

1:10:49the Smart Shuttle service.

1:10:51Um

1:10:52we're still working through that with Go

1:10:53Triangle, so I'm not going to

1:10:55promise a certain date or anything, but

1:10:57we're working

1:11:01>> There is a bus driver telling people,

1:11:03and he's saying it with great

1:11:04enthusiasm, and we're hearing it with

1:11:06enthusiasm, that that horrible Champion

1:11:08bus is gone December 1st, the one that's

1:11:10currently on route. So,

1:11:13I think the word is out there.

1:11:15In case you ask, you're thinking better

1:11:17buses are coming.

1:11:19>> We Go Triangle has not confirmed that,

1:11:21but

1:11:27>> So, just circle again,

1:11:29hit this staff have the ability to be

1:11:32more specific in what those FY26

1:11:35and 27 projects that are currently in

1:11:38the queue that might alleviate some of

1:11:40the concerns about um if we were to have

1:11:44a gap year in '28, making sure some of

1:11:47the projects in line are being

1:11:49considered.

1:11:50Is that possible?

1:11:54>> It's It's all the stops. They can vote

1:11:56on the stops.

1:11:57>> It's all the stops.

1:12:00Okay.

1:12:01>> to the bus stops in the bus stop

1:12:03improvement policy. So, not So, there's

1:12:06a qualification and prioritization

1:12:07process to get enhanced

1:12:10um

1:12:11uh

1:12:12amenities like shelters and

1:12:15bike racks.

1:12:16Transit stops are included.

1:12:18Um

1:12:19but they will all the

1:12:21the scope being cleared

1:12:23at least building out the amenity

1:12:26on top of which is

1:12:27in all cases

1:12:29figuring right-of-way, um which is kind

1:12:31of a lengthy process, um and although

1:12:35any road that needs a bus stop on it in

1:12:37the right-of-way requires a building

1:12:39permit, which is also a lengthy process,

1:12:41so

1:12:42we've we've scoped it out. It's just a

1:12:45long process

1:12:46to get.

1:12:49>> Does that answer your question?

1:12:52>> For now, yes.

1:12:52>> For now? Okay. I know there's a lot to

1:12:55balance and you don't want to stack the

1:12:57to to burn out

1:12:58and there's a

1:12:59immense number of priorities.

1:13:01Uh so, as a subcommittee, we did not

1:13:03think that there was

1:13:05um

1:13:08um

1:13:10any reason for us to counter their

1:13:11recommendations.

1:13:12>> I understand. I guess we talked about

1:13:14the bus that we

1:13:16talked about in our meeting, so it's

1:13:17kind of on the forefront of my mind as

1:13:19far as having

1:13:20any measurable transit services in Apex.

1:13:24And even if it's a limited circulator

1:13:25bus that does communicate to the larger

1:13:27system,

1:13:28still make sure we have a system that

1:13:30people feel safe riding, want to ride.

1:13:33And then it's a feeling versus you

1:13:35hopping in your car. Um, but the system

1:13:37deserves weeks. Where is that two weeks?

1:13:39So, that's why the funding was just a

1:13:41priority for me because are we actually

1:13:42going to keep it running and functional

1:13:45and continue to make those improvements?

1:13:48So, it did sound like things at least

1:13:50were in the pipeline to get

1:13:51accomplished, so that does make me feel

1:13:53a little bit better.

1:13:58>> Any comments from anyone else?

1:14:01Okay.

1:14:03Um

1:14:04Councilwoman Barry, I'd like to make a

1:14:06motion.

1:14:07Um I would like to move to recommend

1:14:09that town council prioritize the

1:14:11projects identified by the

1:14:13infrastructure subcommittee as presented

1:14:15in the staff CIT request.

1:14:19>> I'll second the motion, I'll second it.

1:14:22It looks like it's

1:14:24You've got a motion and a second.

1:14:26Any

1:14:27further discussion?

1:14:29All those in favor, please confirm by

1:14:31saying "Aye." Anyone else? Aye.

1:14:33Anyone else?

1:14:34Abstain.

1:14:40>> And what this will look like is we'll

1:14:41pass these along to the budget

1:14:43department and make sure that they will

1:14:46put a a note or some sort of a flag on

1:14:49the slides that are presented to

1:14:51council, so they'll see which ones the

1:14:53INTAB has prioritized.

1:14:55Understood.

1:15:00>> Brian, you look like you're about to say

1:15:02something.

1:15:03Uh it's a lot to take in. Uh I just know

1:15:07the

1:15:09the subcommittee can staff for a lot

1:15:11harder than you think, but in my first

1:15:13board meeting, I don't want to be real

1:15:15needy there. Um I'm just excited

1:15:17any of this business get on a a list of

1:15:21projects to be

1:15:22built and funded all of this.

1:15:25And of course I want it all tomorrow,

1:15:26but as you mentioned, staff is limited

1:15:28on its funding somewhat.

1:15:30We have to prioritize based on prior um

1:15:33all [clears throat] sorts of all sorts

1:15:34of reasons.

1:15:36Um

1:15:37it Yeah, that's all.

1:15:39>> Okay.

1:15:42>> Thank you.

1:15:44At this point, we'll move into the next

1:15:45agenda item, which is

1:15:49the fiscal year 2027 outreach plan

1:15:51subcommittee update.

1:15:54And I think we're going to call on Chris

1:15:56to give us an update on the community

1:15:59outreach committee.

1:16:00>> Yes, I have our updates. Um so, the

1:16:03community outreach subcommittee last met

1:16:05in September to

1:16:07uh talk about the FY27 outreach task, um

1:16:10including um the first one being the bus

1:16:13operator appreciation day. Previously,

1:16:15that was discussed as bus operator

1:16:16appreciation week.

1:16:18Uh the committee decided to

1:16:20uh refine the scope a little bit to make

1:16:22it a little bit more feasible. We talked

1:16:24about um after this meeting, we're

1:16:25requesting board members fill out a

1:16:27thank you card that we'll then retain,

1:16:29and it will be an element of our bus

1:16:32operator appreciation day.

1:16:34The group is still talking through the

1:16:36specific elements of what that day will

1:16:37look like. Uh an example included having

1:16:41a team member chair for using the

1:16:42council for a minimum of the day,

1:16:45potentially having them have thank you

1:16:46cards. So, we'll continue to talk about

1:16:49the appreciation day at our next

1:16:52meeting, but we are eyeing January

1:16:55timeframe

1:16:56for when that day would be.

1:16:59We'll also discuss the scope and

1:17:01timeline of the Go Apex Look at Getting

1:17:03Campaign, and as a reminder, that will

1:17:04include targeted outreach for um

1:17:08specific audiences such as youth,

1:17:10seniors,

1:17:11uh staff, and subcommittee are still

1:17:13thinking through what specific design

1:17:17and what that outreach might look like.

1:17:19We are aiming for the springtime to

1:17:20launch that campaign.

1:17:23Our goal as a staff is to have some

1:17:25conceptual designs for the subcommittee

1:17:26to review at our next meeting in

1:17:28December.

1:17:30Um

1:17:30and then the intent behind that would be

1:17:33to bring in board members to be actively

1:17:35involved in the dissemination of that

1:17:38targeted outreach.

1:17:40In addition to serve as board

1:17:41ambassadors for outreach.

1:17:43We're still thinking of talking through

1:17:44that element as well.

1:17:47The committee also discussed future

1:17:49outreach opportunities.

1:17:51Moving forward, I'm going to send out an

1:17:53updated sign-up survey similar to what

1:17:55we did last time. And I'm going to

1:17:56change upcoming outreach volunteer

1:17:58opportunities for board members to

1:17:59attend.

1:18:01I know we shared previously the public

1:18:04forum, small events, so the attempt will

1:18:06be to kind of have all that information

1:18:08in one spot.

1:18:10For all board members to see which who's

1:18:13going to which event and what time.

1:18:15We're also going to add to that sign-up

1:18:17[clears throat] sheet

1:18:19a specific in town Great X bus tour. The

1:18:23intent of the subcommittee was to have

1:18:25this group look at their calendars

1:18:27before the meeting closed. I think by

1:18:29two different dates. As long as we don't

1:18:31obtain quorum on the bus, we have the

1:18:33time.

1:18:34So, that's just something that we had

1:18:35discussed previously. I want to bring

1:18:38back to this group to get advice to

1:18:40speak base to take the bus together.

1:18:45We also reviewed previous tasks that we

1:18:46completed. This included

1:18:50attendance and participation in Transit

1:18:51Week. There was an event at the Cherry

1:18:53Depot, and then we also had an event at

1:18:55Beacon Street where we talked to the

1:18:56presidents. And some of the board

1:18:58members also attended the senior health

1:18:59and wellness fair at the senior center.

1:19:01And we talked through some of the

1:19:02lessons learned.

1:19:04And considerations for future outreach

1:19:06as well.

1:19:07And then we also talked about cyclists

1:19:09outreach.

1:19:11The intent was made to provide a formal

1:19:13motion to council to consider cyclist

1:19:15advocate appointment.

1:19:17Huge Ryan, thank you and welcome.

1:19:21So, that item was taken off the agenda.

1:19:23And then other business included

1:19:26exploring adding a medical facilities

1:19:28and paratransit component of the Look

1:19:30and Gain campaign. That was previously a

1:19:32recommendation from the Safety and

1:19:33Sustainability Committee. So, staff is

1:19:35working with Um, the subcommittee to

1:19:38incorporate that into the larger public

1:19:40meeting campaign and then again

1:19:42encourage or invite or coerce to submit

1:19:45an application

1:19:47with classes, senior citizens, and the

1:19:49like.

1:19:51And then lastly, as a reminder, our next

1:19:53meeting will be on September 7th. And we

1:19:55also went ahead and scheduled the rest

1:19:57of our this year

1:19:58meetings.

1:20:00So, make sure Is there anything that I

1:20:01left off?

1:20:03>> I think so.

1:20:03>> That's great.

1:20:06>> [clears throat]

1:20:11>> Thank you.

1:20:12Infrastructure sub committee?

1:20:16>> Um

1:20:17Basically, we just had a meeting

1:20:20and

1:20:21um they subsequently sub committee

1:20:23meetings throughout the rest of the

1:20:25year.

1:20:26>> [clears throat]

1:20:26>> Is there anything you'd like to add,

1:20:27Jenna?

1:20:28>> No, thanks.

1:20:32>> And this Thank you, accessibility sub

1:20:34committee.

1:20:36>> Do you have anything?

1:20:41>> [laughter]

1:20:41>> Um,

1:20:43we have made some progress and um we're

1:20:45working with town staff about having

1:20:47more language documents available and

1:20:49making sure our ridership knows the town

1:20:52schedule, the stops, and just more

1:20:54information on the grant that is

1:20:55available to them.

1:20:57Um, I visited the senior health fair and

1:20:59that was a very productive event to be

1:21:00able to reach people about our system of

1:21:03transit or transit options that are

1:21:05available. It's not but we're not aware

1:21:07of that.

1:21:09Um, we have In our last meeting, we

1:21:10addressed um the boarding slope again,

1:21:13the um overall general layout of the bus

1:21:16lane, and when you board, um you can't

1:21:18have your cart, stroller, or if you're

1:21:20in a wheelchair. We think that it's

1:21:22getting that seating accessibility can

1:21:24be challenging. Um, we've been asked to

1:21:27collapse your cart or collapse your

1:21:28stroller to board.

1:21:30Um, we've asked the town staff to speak

1:21:32to um the Go Ahead and Go Care drivers

1:21:37and to just address the policy in

1:21:38general

1:21:40um because I'm I agree with you on the

1:21:41legal aspect of it being discriminatory

1:21:43and I mean I by parents with possibly

1:21:45one or two children in a stroller or to

1:21:47collapse the kids out of the stroller,

1:21:48collapse that stroller, and then board

1:21:50the bus is a little bit excessive if the

1:21:52kids are comfortable and safely strapped

1:21:53in.

1:21:54Not being able to board that bus without

1:21:56having to disrupt everyone's day. Um, it

1:21:58also slows the bus down in my opinion.

1:22:01If you have to get everybody on the bus

1:22:03and seated on the bus, then collapse the

1:22:05stroller, that takes time. Or unpack a

1:22:07cart full of food from the food pantry

1:22:09to collapse your whole cart. Um, I think

1:22:12that's an

1:22:13an excessive ask of someone that's using

1:22:15the bus system, and we're already

1:22:17limited limited in the ridership.

1:22:20Then if they know, "Okay, but I'm going

1:22:21to bring my cart from the food pantry,

1:22:23and I'm going to have to unpack every

1:22:24single thing in this cart to get it to

1:22:26close."

1:22:27That's an excessive request in my

1:22:29opinion. So, I don't think that we're

1:22:30grateful that the town staff was willing

1:22:32to reach out to the transit providers to

1:22:34address that in their paperwork and how

1:22:36their drivers handle that. Because I

1:22:39mean, the bus is not

1:22:40typically like shoulder to shoulder

1:22:42excessively crowded. Uh, and I I mean,

1:22:45we both agree that if it was something

1:22:46that everyone is safe and the patient

1:22:48and stroller could be collapsed, great.

1:22:50Do that. It'll make a little more room

1:22:52on that bus, but you're not in the way

1:22:54of 10 people

1:22:56by having that stroller out and trapped

1:22:58between the seat in front of you.

1:23:00>> [clears throat]

1:23:01>> We've also uh

1:23:02we're circling back to the safe routes

1:23:04to school discussion. Uh, we did talk

1:23:06briefly about it. Uh, wanting to

1:23:08possibly follow up with some of the town

1:23:11staff's outreach efforts to the school

1:23:13principals as far as what their walking

1:23:15school population look like. Is it maybe

1:23:17a way to help us prioritize any planning

1:23:20or any other outreach efforts to get

1:23:22kids to walk or bike to school? To know

1:23:24which school may have the highest

1:23:25density of those students.

1:23:29This meeting?

1:23:30>> That was great. I do have an update some

1:23:33news in case anyone's interested. The

1:23:35Campo Regional Transportation

1:23:37Organization and a neighboring region is

1:23:40sponsoring a free transportation safety

1:23:44It's Tuesday, December 8th, 8:30 a.m. to

1:23:481:00 p.m. at the McKimmon Center at NC

1:23:51State. It's accessible quite easily.

1:23:54I've already registered. It sounds

1:23:56great. Jay Hardee is a

1:23:58He's a former transit authority, a

1:24:01well-known journalist. He's going to be

1:24:03the guest expert. The workshops and

1:24:05breakout sessions sound great. I'm

1:24:07encouraging Jenny to go. Are staff

1:24:09planning to attend?

1:24:11>> I believe so. Our Vision Zero, which is

1:24:13the town's safety action plan, um

1:24:16is led by the transportation and

1:24:18infrastructure development department.

1:24:21Um one of our transportation engineers

1:24:23heads that up. I believe that she's

1:24:25planning to go.

1:24:27>> If anyone's interested, feel free to let

1:24:29me know, or I'm sure Chris could forward

1:24:31you the registration information. I

1:24:33think it's going to be fabulous. It's a

1:24:34free event and a way to meet regional

1:24:38advocates. Advocacy is a whole category

1:24:41of registrants in addition to staff and

1:24:43elected officials.

1:24:45What's the date and It is December 8th,

1:24:48a Tuesday, 8:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. in

1:24:52Raleigh.

1:24:58>> And just a comment, we we heard some of

1:25:01the outreach

1:25:02feedback

1:25:04feedback about the collapsing of the

1:25:08strollers and all that, and I would

1:25:09really appreciate that

1:25:11other conversations, so

1:25:14But both of

1:25:15It It would [clears throat] be good to

1:25:15hear us on that because

1:25:17look at the other areas of the transit

1:25:19systems, and

1:25:20and if you were to change your policies,

1:25:22that could be

1:25:23I mean, you can you can imagine

1:25:25a larger city making residents do that.

1:25:28It's probably It It just felt

1:25:30like unreasonable, so I'm grateful I

1:25:32found you willing to hear us on that.

1:25:34>> Mhm.

1:25:35>> I'm also very grateful for that because

1:25:37as somebody who's been in a situation of

1:25:38having a collapsed or stroller,

1:25:40it's it is incredibly annoying. But

1:25:43whenever I was in

1:25:46I've only ever been I've only ever been

1:25:47to one other place

1:25:49on transit with a a child in a stroller

1:25:51and that was ironically in the UK.

1:25:53And no at no point did they ask me to

1:25:55take collapse the stroller on commuter

1:25:57train, on bus, on this, on the light

1:25:58rail, no no.

1:26:01>> And which is Boston for three years,

1:26:03there were plenty of people with

1:26:05strollers and rolling carts

1:26:07and it's like they were never asked to

1:26:09collapse it.

1:26:10If it was in the way, if the bus or the

1:26:13train was super crowded, sometimes they

1:26:15did collapse it but we never saw like

1:26:18transit staff approach them and say you

1:26:20need to do this or you can't board the

1:26:24I can't imagine being a parent like

1:26:26already stressing using transit to get

1:26:28to Walmart to pick up your child at the

1:26:30office appointment and then

1:26:31you go to ride the bus and all of a

1:26:33sudden they go, "Oh, you have to take

1:26:33the child out, collapse the stroller."

1:26:36Like if if the child is strapped in,

1:26:38they're honestly to me safer in that

1:26:40stroller than seated on a bus seat or

1:26:42seated in your lap as you're like trying

1:26:44to juggle them, the the stroller,

1:26:46whatever else you have with you.

1:26:47>> Absolutely. And some of those strollers

1:26:49can get really complicated. Like all

1:26:51this stuff is inside.

1:26:52>> that's now upset cuz you unstrapped them

1:26:55and they might have been safely playing,

1:26:57eating, sleeping, whatever they were

1:26:58doing in their stroller and now they're

1:26:59in your arms boarding

1:27:03the bus as you're trying to wrestle the

1:27:04stroller on board. So

1:27:06>> And if you've looked at census data

1:27:08of the entire country, Apex is like the

1:27:11top 10

1:27:13and families

1:27:15uh like households with families in

1:27:17them. Like number one was some random

1:27:19census designated place in New Jersey.

1:27:23Uh but we were like number two or three,

1:27:25something crazy. I don't know where we

1:27:26are now. It's been a a year or two since

1:27:28I've looked at that data.

1:27:28>> I'd love to see that if you have it.

1:27:30>> I spend so much time on census data,

1:27:32it's unreal.

1:27:34Um I have a programming background so

1:27:36I've downloaded tons of information and

1:27:39like it's a whole thing.

1:27:41Um but I I can I

1:27:42think from my 2020 or 2023 data I can

1:27:45tell you

1:27:46but I have the same thing. And I have a

1:27:48lot of those documents at home.

1:27:50>> So, if you're interested in that kind of

1:27:52data, we don't have rankings compared to

1:27:55other communities, but

1:27:57um on the town's website, there's a

1:27:59social data explorer

1:28:01um that our GIS team built that

1:28:04extrapolates a lot of that census

1:28:06information. Um it's available and

1:28:08mapped for anybody.

1:28:09>> Thank you.

1:28:12>> And on the topic of that, there is a

1:28:14website called OnTheMap.census.gov,

1:28:18I think.

1:28:20And it'll actually tell you

1:28:22who commutes outside of Apex and where

1:28:24do they go.

1:28:26The latest data, I think it's from 2023.

1:28:28Uh but it's still fairly recent, you

1:28:30know, after COVID has settled and people

1:28:32are mostly back at work or stable. And

1:28:35you know, a lot of people that live in

1:28:37Apex

1:28:38they they cluster around RTP, Raleigh,

1:28:42Duke, you know, where all the big

1:28:44hospitals are.

1:28:45Um then the ones that work in Apex,

1:28:50most of them live in Apex, which is

1:28:51actually rare because if you I did this

1:28:53data in other Cary and other places,

1:28:55like most people who work in Cary don't

1:28:56live in Cary, but most people who work

1:28:58in Apex live in Apex, which is

1:28:59fantastic, by the way, for biking

1:29:01because if you're within 4 miles of

1:29:04wherever you work or wherever you're

1:29:05running your errand, you can absolutely

1:29:07bike that. And in Apex, all we're

1:29:09missing is a few key network

1:29:11connections, and you can bike anywhere

1:29:13in this entire town.

1:29:15Um if you've got the lights and or an

1:29:17e-bike. And whenever we do have open to

1:29:19that discussion if you want to

1:29:21bring up a few things about e-bikes.

1:29:23>> Thank you.

1:29:25So, um

1:29:26well, can we ask Ronnie to join the

1:29:28committee?

1:29:29Motion to

1:29:31>> Can we wait? So, other business? Okay.

1:29:34>> Yeah, we'll we'll do that.

1:29:36Um at this point from the subcommittees,

1:29:39um requested action is to ask the

1:29:42sub-accessibility

1:29:44committee to consider

1:29:46um recommendations related to going 60

1:29:48ft tall.

1:29:51Correct. This is in in that in the

1:29:52agenda packet actually twice, even

1:29:54though we've never actually discussed it

1:29:57at the sub committee. I have additional

1:30:00recommendations to make sure that in the

1:30:02future new tours, they don't become as

1:30:05problematic as the current Salem Street

1:30:07construction ones. It was a one-year

1:30:10detour that it ended and left people

1:30:13only got 4 days of notice with a

1:30:15complete disruption in the logistics of

1:30:17the lights. I had lots of arguments and

1:30:19concerns about it. Staff started to have

1:30:22a little tentative maybe possibility of

1:30:26reconsidering that detour, but then

1:30:28decided it was too late in the year cuz

1:30:30the detour was going to

1:30:31finish in January anyway. It's too late

1:30:35to reverse it, so we're trapped with it.

1:30:36And I thought the only way to

1:30:38kind of make this even miserable for me

1:30:41personally and for other people who

1:30:43impacted by spots could at least come

1:30:45out of it with recommendations that this

1:30:47doesn't happen again. So, when our sub

1:30:50committee tried to decide is it

1:30:51appropriate for us

1:30:53to include accessibility to tackle it.

1:30:55It wasn't one of our original

1:30:57assignments

1:30:58from the full board. So, we'd like your

1:31:01permission

1:31:02to tackle it sub committee level.

1:31:05Or we could bring it to the full board

1:31:07and you know, we could

1:31:08use 30 minutes of time to talk it

1:31:11through here, but I feel like the sub

1:31:12committee might be a better place to be

1:31:14the negotiated here staff perspective.

1:31:21>> Any discussion?

1:31:26>> I'll make a motion.

1:31:28>> Question.

1:31:28>> I'll move. I move that we officially are

1:31:31going to add discussion about Go Apex

1:31:34detours and recommendations for future

1:31:36detours to the allowed scope of the

1:31:38safety and accessibility sub committee.

1:31:42>> I second that motion.

1:31:44>> Motion made and seconded.

1:31:46>> Mr. Bagby, do you have anything to add

1:31:47to the minute?

1:31:48>> I.

1:31:49>> Mr. Hood?

1:31:52Mr. Holland?

1:31:53>> Yes.

1:31:55>> Okay.

1:31:56>> Thank you.

1:31:56>> Thank you. good day everyone.

1:31:58So I'm going to call on Chris. There is

1:32:00a new item on the agenda for next agenda

1:32:03item.

1:32:04>> Yeah, I'd like to share two kind of call

1:32:07outs I want to do. First one is to go

1:32:09Apex

1:32:11staff and our communication team will be

1:32:13providing further or in depth

1:32:16notification to the public but the route

1:32:19one will be returning to the traditional

1:32:21routing trying to get them off here on

1:32:23the system here

1:32:25once these other streets get projects is

1:32:27done. So once we get a little bit more

1:32:28details we'll release

1:32:30formally to the public.

1:32:32The subject date

1:32:34and that change will come into effect.

1:32:35We just want to release give this for a

1:32:37heads up.

1:32:38But that change will be coming to effect

1:32:40once the street skate project is done.

1:32:42And then another item is

1:32:45the key plan public forum and Tina do

1:32:47you know if you want to say a few words

1:32:49at this time?

1:32:51>> Um it's next week.

1:32:54Yeah, it's

1:32:55November 12th.

1:32:57Open to the public from 4:00 p.m. to

1:32:597:00 p.m. and it'll be at the senior

1:33:01center.

1:33:03This is a big meeting. This is where

1:33:05we'll have the land use and

1:33:07transportation recommendations ready for

1:33:10public input

1:33:12and we'll lead into the actual plan

1:33:14document. So would love for the entire

1:33:16board to

1:33:18make sure you come by.

1:33:19See what we've got. Give your input.

1:33:22We will be posting materials online

1:33:24following the public meeting. So if you

1:33:26can't make it you have an opportunity to

1:33:29look online and share your comments that

1:33:31way too.

1:33:39>> [clears throat]

1:33:40>> Any other things Tina?

1:33:42Okay, I think I said Wednesday but

1:33:44November 12th is a Thursday. Yes,

1:33:46Thursday November.

1:33:54I'm just a call out on page 120 of our

1:33:57agenda packet. Within that really long

1:34:00list of missed trips and delays with

1:34:02known causes and mechanical issues,

1:34:05certainly become obvious. For the bus

1:34:09that I most want to get rid of, the

1:34:10Arboc with the steep boarding slope, if

1:34:13we can replace that with a more recent

1:34:16Champion bus borrowed from Morrisville,

1:34:18that would be great. Something staff

1:34:20might not know is Arbocs throughout the

1:34:22system are losing their ability to kneel

1:34:25or lower. So, it should make it almost

1:34:28impossible to get up the slope if the

1:34:30driver doesn't pull on the curb. So, you

1:34:32have to jump up and over and then slope.

1:34:35There's just a new mechanical failure.

1:34:37And I haven't seen it on the Go Apex

1:34:39Arboc, but it's probably coming on the

1:34:41other rest of them. Their kneeling

1:34:43ability is dying.

1:34:47Is there anything else you can tell us

1:34:49about the cancellation? Is the solution

1:34:51to replace the vehicles?

1:34:53>> One thing I would just say, um it is a

1:34:56agency-wide

1:34:58issue. Um it's not specific to Go Apex

1:35:00route one other Go Apex route 22 bus or

1:35:0315 16. They're experiencing issues

1:35:05amongst their entire fleet.

1:35:08>> I'm sorry, if you can say that louder.

1:35:10>> No, so Go Triangle is experiencing

1:35:11maintenance issues across their entire

1:35:13fleet, not just Go Triangle Apex route

1:35:15one

1:35:18vehicles are experiencing this issue.

1:35:20So, they're they're aware of it and

1:35:23you know, usually they send out a

1:35:24supervisor or a mechanic to address the

1:35:27issues they have online maintenance.

1:35:30>> In my experience, the exact same thing

1:35:32happened late summer last year and it's

1:35:34particularly on these lightweight

1:35:35vehicles. I think that's a problem that

1:35:37needs to be grappled with if you think

1:35:39of the future of a transit system in

1:35:42Apex and regionally, we're getting these

1:35:44short lifespan

1:35:47build-a-bus cutaway vehicles, right? The

1:35:50the cheapest bus. It's two different

1:35:52manufacturers, the chassis and then

1:35:55something gets slapped on top of it

1:35:57where there's known mechanical problems,

1:36:00but if there's no other vehicles that

1:36:03are on the market

1:36:05and we've got buy America requirements

1:36:07federally, it's something to grapple

1:36:10with. It's beyond, you know, the our bus

1:36:11was I mean, beyond the pale because the

1:36:14boarding slope is flat.

1:36:16Small vehicles.

1:36:20That could have been one of the things

1:36:21that I wish the state plan would talk

1:36:23about

1:36:23in Pennsylvania. Put this in writing,

1:36:25you know, how are we going to drive up

1:36:27with the driver shortage and the vehicle

1:36:32issue in Apex and Raleigh.

1:36:34And then

1:36:36this is something I've talked about, but

1:36:37I thought we could do something on one

1:36:39of the charts and then it will let me

1:36:41hush up on this topic and be permanently

1:36:44and if you look at page 121,

1:36:48there's a chart on the top. Go in fact

1:36:50route one boardings by month.

1:36:52And I just like you to look at FY 2016

1:36:55the gold mine and the boardings look

1:36:58like they're increasing pretty much in

1:37:00mid April and that's when

1:37:04the Go Triangle Market policy at the

1:37:06municipal building began. So, people get

1:37:09double counted. Fourth Street, get off

1:37:11the bus and then get back on even if

1:37:13they're going to ride it, but it's also

1:37:15when we increase frequency. So, there's

1:37:17buses every 30 minutes, two buses on the

1:37:19road during prime time in the same hour,

1:37:23but it means that if you look then at

1:37:25the purple line way up the top, that

1:37:28those numbers really don't compare FY 23

1:37:32and FY 27, there's two very different

1:37:34scenarios going. And I've seen some

1:37:37references by elected officials and by

1:37:39other people as if

1:37:41this was just nothing but the buses

1:37:43exploding in popularity. There's other

1:37:45things going on. So, if we put a

1:37:48footnote or disclaimer under the chart

1:37:51every single time, then I feel like it's

1:37:53covered and I don't have to say it

1:37:55again. Something like this. One, two

1:37:58vehicles are now in operation during

1:38:00prime hours and two, the what have

1:38:03language you want to use, I call it a

1:38:05"florist misses market" policy, but

1:38:07continuing passengers must be aboard at

1:38:09Wrenn's ability to explain the data

1:38:13after April 26th.

1:38:16The sample just consider that.

1:38:20>> [clears throat]

1:38:25>> We will consider it and talk about it.

1:38:28>> [laughter]

1:38:36>> I just want to think back to the related

1:38:37two of

1:38:39the mini markets.

1:38:41It's not only the one to

1:38:43Kimbrough just

1:38:46>> I do have other business. I pre-prepared

1:38:48this, so the fourth tab on your

1:38:51computers, you have a document that's

1:38:53just called "PowerPoint Presentation" in

1:38:55the tab, but if you look at it, it's

1:38:56about Walmart access on GoApex. One nice

1:39:00thing is Zach and I I think are entirely

1:39:02in agreement on this, so I'm going to go

1:39:04fairly quick, but I wanted you to be

1:39:06able to visualize what we're talking

1:39:08about. And here we've all been to that

1:39:10Walmart, but if you're not walking it

1:39:12off the bus, it seems a little bit

1:39:14different. So, I just put a diagram, a

1:39:16map, so you can see that it's a little

1:39:19ways to go from the bus stop near

1:39:21Kimbrough through this down to the

1:39:23Walmart. You've got a long stretch on

1:39:26Apex Peakway, and you also have to get a

1:39:28head crosswalk sometimes are quite

1:39:30heavily trafficked intersection there at

1:39:33Kimbrough and Apex Peakway. Walmart, of

1:39:36course, is a major employer in addition

1:39:39to a budget shopping destination.

1:39:41So, I'll just share a little story.

1:39:43There's a woman and I haven't seen her

1:39:45in ages, so I don't know if she still

1:39:46works at the Walmart, but she was older

1:39:48than me, probably in her late 60s. She

1:39:50worked as an overnight custodian, and

1:39:52she missed the very last GoApex bus, the

1:39:559:10 p.m. one. She'd ride it to the

1:39:57Walmart, and then she'd have to do that

1:40:00walk after pitch black. And the way she

1:40:02sort of demonstrated to me is that she'd

1:40:05her purse to her chest with both hands.

1:40:07She'd stare really straight ahead, kind

1:40:11of clench her shoulders over, and just

1:40:14walk as fast as she could. And it made

1:40:16her scared. And then she worked there on

1:40:17a night shift, and she came back on the

1:40:19very first loop that said dance the

1:40:21following morning. And she did this five

1:40:22nights a week. So, that makes it, you

1:40:25know, you might not feel so much

1:40:26sympathy at me dragging my dog through

1:40:28that or something. I've been down Apex

1:40:30Way, but for people who are depending on

1:40:32that work and having to do that after

1:40:33dark, I think we need a better option.

1:40:37And let me highlight a couple things

1:40:39here. If you see on the bottom of that

1:40:41first page, I'm going to show this long

1:40:44stretch on Apex Peak Way. And one thing

1:40:47I think about for personal safety is

1:40:49screamability.

1:40:50When I'm close to home on Hunter Street,

1:40:52everyone knows me in those houses,

1:40:55right? They're sweet little bundle-less.

1:40:57If I screamed or ran up to a doorbell, I

1:40:59think people would help me. But this is

1:41:00a stretch where there is no one to run

1:41:04and rescue you. There's a no fence, and

1:41:06then a long kind of grassy area, and

1:41:08then a huge parking lot. You are a long

1:41:10way from the car people and the Walmart

1:41:14security guard, especially at night. I

1:41:17did a little personal poll of every lady

1:41:19over 50 who I personally saw on a bus,

1:41:22would they walk it after dark? Every

1:41:24single one said no. And now, obviously,

1:41:26it's dark really early. So, it starts to

1:41:29shrink your universe of when you can do

1:41:32your shopping.

1:41:33On uh the second page, there's some

1:41:36pictures of what is actually brilliantly

1:41:38designed. So, I'll make sure Kady and

1:41:40team know I'm complimenting you. If you

1:41:43have to walk into a shopping center,

1:41:45this is actually a wonderful one. It's

1:41:48You can kind of see how both for for

1:41:50wheelchairs, for strollers, or

1:41:52pedestrians like me, you're really

1:41:54protected there from the cars. There's a

1:41:58sign telling cars to stop and defer to

1:42:00you. The one place you would have to

1:42:02cross is front of vehicles.

1:42:04[clears throat]

1:42:05And then there's a separated uh

1:42:07walkway, cement that then takes you all

1:42:10the way into the store. So, it's

1:42:11actually really safe once you get here.

1:42:14It's just you have to add in all of this

1:42:17long distance. It's a total of of 3/4 of

1:42:20a mile each way to get from the bus stop

1:42:23to the Walmart.

1:42:24I personally live 2 miles my house to

1:42:28Walmart. And so that would be 4 miles if

1:42:31I walked the whole way round trip. If I

1:42:33take the bus, I still have to walk 2

1:42:36miles round trip to get to Walmart. It

1:42:38just And it's because the walking

1:42:40distance is too far both on the Walmart

1:42:43side as well as from my home on. On the

1:42:46bottom of the second page, you can just

1:42:48see there's a real pictures of my

1:42:51overloaded roller cart which I used

1:42:53because of the hand injury. But then

1:42:55it's a minor hassle. Well, it's

1:42:58it's a minor hassle to get to Walmart. I

1:43:01tend not to go for if I just need

1:43:03allergy killing and a walk. Just being

1:43:05at Food Lion and get it even if

1:43:07Walmart's cheaper. So, once I go I stock

1:43:09up. And I know other people who do the

1:43:11same thing. It's a hassle. So, then

1:43:13you've got a really heavy thing to haul

1:43:14back home and haul on the bus and haul

1:43:17that food for a mile. So, it all kind of

1:43:20adds up. If I'm headed towards Walmart,

1:43:24I'm on the bus only for 6 minutes. That

1:43:27part is really fast, right? It's a

1:43:28straight line. From I go down Highway

1:43:3155, turn once, and then the bus stops.

1:43:33So, that's only 6 minutes on board, but

1:43:35it's a total of 30 minutes with all of

1:43:37that so much walking and waiting time.

1:43:39So, kind of wanted to put that in

1:43:41perspective because otherwise it seems

1:43:43like, "Well, it's not that far to walk."

1:43:44But everything is cumulative. Then on

1:43:48the third page, I have two examples

1:43:51I think are better options, some

1:43:53inspirations. Um the wonderful Go Cary

1:43:57Route 1 you can go from downtown Apex to

1:43:59downtown Cary. You go to the library if

1:44:02you need. And then you can switch to my

1:44:04beloved Go Cary Route 4 which goes on

1:44:07High House. It goes to the Walmart

1:44:09Neighborhood Market that is at High

1:44:12House and Highway 55. And if you look at

1:44:14these pictures on page three, the bus is

1:44:17just right there. The bus stop is at the

1:44:19Walmart entrance. And the section second

1:44:22picture I like even better because from

1:44:24inside the lobby, climate controlled,

1:44:27you can see the bus stop. You can wait

1:44:29inside in comfort until the bus is there

1:44:31and then uh load on. The bus has a

1:44:34layover here and sometimes it's even 5

1:44:36to 8 minutes. So, usually the driver and

1:44:39all the passengers, whether they're

1:44:40shopping or not, run in and use the

1:44:42Walmart restroom because always a

1:44:43priority for bus people. And that bus

1:44:46comes by every 30 minutes. So, you could

1:44:48take that bus, I could do hours of

1:44:51billing and a head of lettuce, pay for

1:44:53them quickly, use the restroom, get on

1:44:55the bus. It's cuz it's low hassle to

1:44:57reboard. So,

1:44:59and for our friends on staff, this would

1:45:02be brilliant if you can get us this

1:45:04close to Apex Walmart.

1:45:05>> It's safer, too.

1:45:06>> I can't really say about that. I've been

1:45:08going at night, right? Yeah.

1:45:10>> Completely forgot having to leave the

1:45:12Walmart, cross that parking lot where

1:45:14there have been people

1:45:17on whatever they were on.

1:45:18>> Yeah, it's the offense to get up that

1:45:21hill cuz it is an incline parking lot

1:45:23Walmart to the valley across that bus

1:45:25stop.

1:45:26I have no idea if they're going to like

1:45:27it at that bus stop.

1:45:29Cuz the bus driver is getting there to

1:45:30see you which is why you're getting

1:45:31across three lanes

1:45:32from the Walmart to get on the bus.

1:45:34>> That bus has a decent amenity, but at

1:45:37night, the kind of the bus that I was

1:45:39talking about to you guys now once

1:45:40there. So, it is with software they got.

1:45:42Sometimes it's a time point for them so

1:45:43they have to stop and wait if they're

1:45:45off schedule by a few minutes. But yeah,

1:45:47you're completely right. If one word,

1:45:49you're coming across the intersection

1:45:51and you see the bus coming, they're

1:45:53unlikely to realize that you're trying

1:45:54to stop because they just want to get

1:45:56there.

1:45:56>> You have to make sure the car see you

1:45:58cross it. I mean, that's a pretty

1:45:59well-traveled

1:46:02Good. Well, they're going to be off

1:46:03schedule, but last time I was there, it

1:46:05was fairly up in trouble.

1:46:06>> And people in page I think he's an

1:46:08aggressive right and left hand driver.

1:46:10So, we can aim for really close for

1:46:13activity. And then finally, I put on

1:46:15page three, I mentioned this, but I

1:46:17wanted to put it in writing. My favorite

1:46:20program in the area now for senior

1:46:23transportation is this Go Durham Access

1:46:25Senior Shuttle. It's once a week for a

1:46:28day between 10:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m.

1:46:31They come to specific senior living

1:46:33communities, focus on the low-income and

1:46:35mostly minority population. And then for

1:46:38those 5 hours, they get taken to the

1:46:40Walmart and or food lion. They just keep

1:46:42looping back and forth through the door.

1:46:44And I hear it's incredibly popular. And

1:46:47so, Monday it's one senior community and

1:46:49Tuesday they go to a senior community.

1:46:51I've heard from the Durham staff that it

1:46:53was a a really successful program.

1:46:56I think this is a great way to fill in

1:46:58gaps where Go Apex doesn't go, where

1:47:00people are living out line and they're

1:47:02not eligible for paratransit. But if,

1:47:04for example, there was a weekly shuttle

1:47:07from the senior [clears throat] center,

1:47:08which I can walk to, to Walmart on a

1:47:11Tuesday or Thursday afternoon, that

1:47:12would be the most important thing in my

1:47:14week. I would go every week, same mall,

1:47:16Thursday. They would take me right to

1:47:18the door of Walmart and bring me back.

1:47:20Even though it's just a limited amount

1:47:22of groceries and three grocery bags, I

1:47:24wouldn't be able to bring in my giant

1:47:26cartful of weed whackers, but they would

1:47:28take care of the essential purchases.

1:47:30That's it. Any questions? Otherwise, I

1:47:33think staff have a response and what

1:47:35they're looking at.

1:47:41>> So, yeah, I was going to let you know

1:47:43that we we have

1:47:45talked with Harris several times

1:47:48about

1:47:49going to the Walmart.

1:47:50Um and even you know, the bus out there,

1:47:54they were in the parking lot, and we're

1:47:56ultimately basically

1:47:59declined that option because uh risk

1:48:03factors that Harris

1:48:05uh seeks to avoid. So, they they don't

1:48:07like going in the private parking lots.

1:48:10Anyway,

1:48:11um

1:48:12and it's been an ongoing

1:48:16conversation that we've had with them

1:48:18you know about our routing.

1:48:20Um, the other issue is the need for

1:48:24the route to make a left turn back out

1:48:28of the parking lot to continue on the

1:48:30route for Joey Texaco 1,

1:48:32which is the only way to

1:48:34turn on Gateway,

1:48:36which is which was another

1:48:38>> [clears throat]

1:48:39>> risk factor that they weren't willing to

1:48:41accept before where it was the same.

1:48:44Um,

1:48:45I

1:48:46you know, got this week

1:48:49um, in our transit plan map as a future

1:48:52thing for Joey Texaco 1

1:48:55um, to continue working

1:48:57for it

1:48:58getting this access uh, to the Walmart.

1:49:01Um, we're continuing towards there and

1:49:03continuing to

1:49:05advocate with our CID department about

1:49:08prioritizing possibly a traffic signal

1:49:11at Brown Trail Way and Gateway, which

1:49:14they let me know once once

1:49:17uh, the Southwest Connector is open,

1:49:20they might be able to look at that and

1:49:22see what's more in the future

1:49:25if they're allowing us left turns.

1:49:27Um, but Jerry wants to see if he you

1:49:30know,

1:49:31anytime they have a big left turn, they

1:49:32don't

1:49:33like waiting left turns where there's no

1:49:35signal, you know, to protect them. Um,

1:49:38so we've we've had many conversations

1:49:40about this. It's it's ongoing.

1:49:43Um, [clears throat]

1:49:44I agree with you. I mean, I completely

1:49:45agree. It's it's something

1:49:48that we would love to see with the route

1:49:50not

1:49:51you know,

1:49:52for for many reasons. It's Walmart and

1:49:54Gateway that is

1:49:56uh, any bus route in the country's not

1:49:58up to this situation. Um,

1:50:00we have significant grade issues. Um,

1:50:03Walmart was built before

1:50:05they were considering transit

1:50:07connectivity um,

1:50:08and

1:50:10there's just you know, challenges

1:50:15Um,

1:50:16I've seen shoppers out of the in areas.

1:50:18You know,

1:50:19I'm going to go on here to see that

1:50:21working with them.

1:50:22Um,

1:50:23if you have money that they're um,

1:50:28you know, there is service that we can

1:50:30consider as possible options in the

1:50:33program of the transportation studies.

1:50:35And then um, so that we're looking for

1:50:38here

1:50:38are doing that now, so we're looking for

1:50:41and it will help

1:50:43to identify mobility gaps for the

1:50:45hearing impaired and we are looking at

1:50:47the funding that we have. We'll work

1:50:48with them and have a discussion.

1:50:50Um, the type of thing is

1:50:53within the real house of the city of

1:50:55Farmington, but we are going to be

1:50:57looking at that holistically um, and not

1:50:59predetermine any solutions, you know,

1:51:01until we see

1:51:05I will say for our council member that

1:51:07in my opinion the best thing we could do

1:51:10with money related to transit now

1:51:12because there are so many barriers for

1:51:14the older riders, especially people with

1:51:16walking canes, people with mobility

1:51:19issues. Who say that Go Apex currently

1:51:22under the parameters really from Go

1:51:24Carry. Of course this embarkment with

1:51:26people waiting, slow, not stopping right

1:51:29at Walmart, that we need to find some

1:51:31other option to help the older riders

1:51:34take care of essential business. And for

1:51:36me the shuttle idea that pilot has a

1:51:39shuttle where it's one afternoon a week

1:51:41to target destination and take you

1:51:43directly to Walmart and or Food Lion.

1:51:47I feel like we are really at the point

1:51:49where we need some mitigation. There are

1:51:51so many accessibility barriers.

1:51:53>> It may be difficult to

1:51:56consider that.

1:51:59Good stuff.

1:52:01You know, there's other studies that

1:52:03play into both the

1:52:05um,

1:52:07the housing development uh, on the

1:52:10North East Street that might

1:52:12forces to be considered in the bus in in

1:52:15that area. Right, but there's there's

1:52:17other things that that need to be in

1:52:19there. So, you know, that's the the goal

1:52:22is

1:52:23of the board you know that's

1:52:25we we spend some time on

1:52:27the last

1:52:29I support the staff

1:52:31and the board of directors.

1:52:33part of the large offensive

1:52:35operation

1:52:38Yes, but this is exactly the type of

1:52:39stuff that

1:52:41we put together on the advisory

1:52:45staff or

1:52:46you know

1:52:48the good climate

1:52:49people are saying

1:52:51>> I have a quick question.

1:52:52>> Sure.

1:52:53>> You were mentioning the northeast street

1:52:55car development to bring the bus to them

1:52:58but adding a stop there also.

1:53:00>> So there's So it's going to be in a

1:53:02affordable housing development next to

1:53:04what is already a affordable housing

1:53:06community center so we want to see

1:53:08um

1:53:10increase the accessibility.

1:53:12Been discussing that for years A where

1:53:14we killed off that conversation.

1:53:16>> I'm looking at the train to plan map as

1:53:19a

1:53:19community center.

1:53:20>> Yeah,

1:53:21we've already talked about one in in the

1:53:23area so

1:53:25I mean there there's things kind of

1:53:26written in the work and so but that

1:53:29doesn't solve

1:53:30the need that we're looking for right

1:53:32we're looking for another type of

1:53:34transit activity that we are not

1:53:37already considering but I think it's

1:53:38something that the bus system has to be

1:53:41and go to the door for people that walk

1:53:45by.

1:53:45>> So that's a good idea.

1:53:46>> Um

1:53:47right.

1:53:47>> That's a good idea.

1:53:48>> But you know

1:53:51again

1:53:52point being

1:53:53it is another method that we want to

1:53:55have to be

1:53:57you know what the list of menus or the

1:53:59menu of local options that

1:54:02us let's kind of put it together in a

1:54:04more complete proposal.

1:54:07We can step back and look at this. This

1:54:09is what we would like to see another

1:54:11project that we could go from school to

1:54:13school

1:54:15or that we could operate shuttle

1:54:17the transportation hub that we have

1:54:20It's point point connection that whether

1:54:22whether we expect or want to be there

1:54:25>> This is

1:54:25>> for the current Walmart stop. And when

1:54:27we get to the bus stop, I'm not really

1:54:29impressed. So, the Walmart that I got

1:54:31off on that stop,

1:54:32that stop, to me, I'm guessing it serves

1:54:35the apartment complexes, maybe some of

1:54:37the other housing developments through

1:54:39there.

1:54:39>> So, it serves the senior resident

1:54:41community. It's also a trans- transport

1:54:44point for one of the carry that sit

1:54:47there, but it is a bit of a walk from

1:54:50>> And it seems like an extensive walk. I'm

1:54:52thinking if I'm using a walker or cane,

1:54:55pushing a stroller,

1:54:56>> Right. So, it is it's

1:54:58not ideal, by any stretch, you know, to

1:55:00get to Walmart from from that stop.

1:55:02>> And to me, that's why we have a transit

1:55:05system. It's trying to connect people

1:55:08that don't have vehicles, that don't

1:55:09have family to drive them from point to

1:55:11point to get what they need. And if

1:55:14you're asking a resident to ride the bus

1:55:17and walk a quarter mile,

1:55:20a little mile, even, I mean,

1:55:22it seems like the specific is

1:55:24not achieving its goal.

1:55:26Because you're dropping them off

1:55:28down the street way out of Walmart down

1:55:30there.

1:55:31>> So, we can get with the managers.

1:55:34There's obviously conversations that

1:55:36need to happen with the go barrier

1:55:38getting to

1:55:40the Walmart lot at the end of the week.

1:55:43The operator is not

1:55:44helpful there.

1:55:46You you

1:55:47and I are on the way.

1:55:49Uh it sounds like there's an ongoing

1:55:51process.

1:55:53The agreement and negotiation is up. Um

1:55:56Right. So, and you know, um

1:55:59but if

1:56:01you know, as an alternative to with with

1:56:03a moderate investment, we can

1:56:06make the the parking lot more

1:56:07accessible, right?

1:56:11They don't want an intersection or

1:56:12something like that.

1:56:14Okay, let's have that conversation. And

1:56:16maybe that helps CACFP

1:56:18requests

1:56:20to operate within the intersection and

1:56:22sort of resolve the walking and

1:56:23potentially

1:56:24difficult transportation.

1:56:26But, we'll be on the point of the

1:56:29there's if the board wants to make a

1:56:31recommendation like that

1:56:33then please do. Okay, we'll give the

1:56:34paper some chance to do

1:56:37We'll look at it. So, if if staff has a

1:56:40chance to review

1:56:41and I think I'm not the best person to

1:56:42do that.

1:56:43I'll come to my office

1:56:45and I'll do 2,000.

1:56:47>> I want to make sure I first okay you

1:56:48said because I am first hearing chief

1:56:50prosecutor to me.

1:56:51Um the drivers may be concerned with

1:56:54is the issue getting in and out of the

1:56:56Walmart a lot back onto that main

1:56:58thoroughfare to continue the route on

1:57:00time?

1:57:00>> If if if I understood correctly, so

1:57:03right now the only way because if you

1:57:05look at the route for for the bus that

1:57:09it goes down Eagler. So, if we detour

1:57:12into the Walmart parking lot basically

1:57:16the bus needs to come out and take a

1:57:19left hand turn to get back onto the

1:57:21Eagler.

1:57:22>> To continue on that same

1:57:23>> To continue on to the other

1:57:25dirt path that is going around.

1:57:28Um

1:57:29and apparently again the the operator

1:57:32has some concerns around the the ability

1:57:35of the bus to you know pull out of that

1:57:37out of that intersection and what you

1:57:39guys need to cross over.

1:57:42Um the deep way to make a left hand left

1:57:44hand turn

1:57:45>> It's four lanes of travel.

1:57:46>> Because it's four lanes of travel and

1:57:48people kind of come come you know around

1:57:50that bend pretty pretty quickly. So, I

1:57:52can I can see the concern but then again

1:57:55if the if the requirement would be for

1:57:58the

1:58:00happy path would be that okay if this is

1:58:02if this intersection becomes signalized

1:58:05and then the bus can make a safe turn

1:58:08and that will be the solution.

1:58:10Then what the board here is going to

1:58:13propose is that we put another project

1:58:15on the CAP plan

1:58:16to look at potentially signalizing that

1:58:18said intersection.

1:58:19>> So, there's not a signal on the widening

1:58:21plan for that section.

1:58:23>> There is no widening plan that that's

1:58:25already at four lanes across the street.

1:58:27>> Okay. And that was there's a bigger part

1:58:28of the widening plan.

1:58:30Whatever it was there. on that good.

1:58:31>> Yes, that's a very different part.

1:58:34>> [clears throat]

1:58:35>> Yeah, and so

1:58:37typically signals are only installed

1:58:39when they meet specific warrants.

1:58:42And so that's why at this point there's

1:58:44not

1:58:45a signal there.

1:58:46Um, but yeah, Katie Katie has tackled

1:58:50this with

1:58:52Go Carry with

1:58:53transportation department. I mean, tried

1:58:57multiple options looking at different

1:58:58re-routing. So, it's definitely

1:59:00something that she's worked on.

1:59:03>> I mean, when when the bus leaves the

1:59:05stop at the senior living community

1:59:08what's its next stop in that route?

1:59:10Does it then head further down the creek

1:59:12way to come back into town or

1:59:15You know better than

1:59:16>> the

1:59:17Viking Industrial Area North Park.

1:59:20Um, then it continues westward on the

1:59:23Woodland Drive.

1:59:26>> I guess that's what kind of my question

1:59:27is,

1:59:28what's the rest of the route look like?

1:59:30Would there be a way

1:59:31it to put Walmart on some other part of

1:59:34the loop to make sure they don't come

1:59:35into the parking lot so it's not as hard

1:59:36on the driver if they're not coming on

1:59:38the signal or something.

1:59:40But I just think if if we're trying to

1:59:41meet people's needs that are riding that

1:59:43bus that don't need to transfer at the

1:59:46senior living community

1:59:48not stopping at something like a Walmart

1:59:50or stopping at the grocery store or

1:59:52something, it's just

1:59:54it defeats the purpose of having it.

1:59:57We're trying to get them to the right

1:59:58place. This is just

2:00:00>> Yeah, and we also just have challenges

2:00:02with the run time. Run time of going

2:00:04that far clients. So,

2:00:07we need have very little little room to

2:00:09do

2:00:11um, because

2:00:13you know, the time we have to complete

2:00:15the loop.

2:00:16Um,

2:00:17so

2:00:18in the future

2:00:20we're working towards

2:00:22an environment where we have better

2:00:24operational ability and better

2:00:26operational flexibility through having

2:00:2810 minute flexibility months which would

2:00:30allow us to

2:00:32potentially interline or or do things

2:00:34that we can't with much

2:00:36more um

2:00:39uh

2:00:40you know, options as far as

2:00:43online or

2:00:47So,

2:00:49right now we we can't promise to add

2:00:51anything

2:00:52to to our route because we just don't

2:00:54have

2:00:55enough

2:00:56capacity.

2:00:58Other examples of that,

2:01:01group living to

2:01:03essential shopping model of shuttles.

2:01:06So, does it seem like it might be

2:01:08cheaper to launch than implementing a

2:01:10full fixed route? Would we have to buy

2:01:12additional bus stops? It seems like it

2:01:14could be with a smaller vehicle, similar

2:01:17to what Morrisville switched to. So, I

2:01:19could do that kind of research. I'm not

2:01:21sure how if if there's any interest in

2:01:24this from the group and from staff, how

2:01:26we move it forward fast enough for the

2:01:28budget cycle.

2:01:30>> So, just a suggestion, um if if it's the

2:01:33shuttle type option, the mobility

2:01:36solution study is really intended to

2:01:39look at what are the gaps in our in

2:01:44serving specifically people with

2:01:46[clears throat] disabilities, seniors,

2:01:48and others who may not be um you know,

2:01:51adequately addressed with current

2:01:52transit. And then to look, you know,

2:01:56after we really understand the need

2:01:57holistically, what are all the possible

2:02:01solutions.

2:02:01>> That's a slow

2:02:04study at our

2:02:05speed. Your timeline's, no offense, but

2:02:08it's slow in the planning world.

2:02:10>> Yeah.

2:02:10>> Yeah, but

2:02:11>> Welcome to the speed of government.

2:02:13>> But, you know, so it's very difficult.

2:02:16A lot of and and Katie just explained

2:02:18that step earlier.

2:02:19A lot of it involves other departments,

2:02:22right? And then obtaining right of way

2:02:24or property acquisition, and none of

2:02:26that is

2:02:27quick.

2:02:28And

2:02:29uh and you know, who are operating on

2:02:30DOT roads,

2:02:32getting DOT to review a plan can

2:02:35sometimes take up to 6 months, right?

2:02:37And then you know, in the meanwhile we

2:02:39go bankrupt.

2:02:40So, you know, it's

2:02:41not necessarily a timeline that the

2:02:43staff

2:02:45And then so, I I get it, it's

2:02:47frustrating. It's a number It's

2:02:49extremely frustrating when you get stuff

2:02:50done and you know, everything just seems

2:02:53to

2:02:54take forever. Uh but it takes forever

2:02:56for a reason that's not always within

2:02:58the control of you know, the people

2:03:00that's

2:03:01are equally motivated to get the job

2:03:02done.

2:03:04I understand we're looking for for quick

2:03:06solutions.

2:03:07Uh I do agree with

2:03:09uh Shannon that the the

2:03:11mobility studies is probably the right

2:03:13way to address a brand new type of

2:03:16service.

2:03:17Um if the existing service is, you know,

2:03:21not able to handle

2:03:23Um

2:03:24>> [clears throat]

2:03:24>> or you know, we we got another change in

2:03:26the system like or you have to discuss

2:03:29what you recommend to the mover.

2:03:33I don't know.

2:03:34Extremely low usage. If we were to take

2:03:37some of those out of the

2:03:41But again, like the results circle the

2:03:43problem of getting in getting out.

2:03:46Operator

2:03:48Uh

2:03:49you know, making that turn to the

2:03:51facility in the So,

2:03:54again, happy to explore any and all of

2:03:56that.

2:03:57Um

2:03:58But I just thought that one one thing

2:04:02The dominant paradigm of the things that

2:04:04needs to be different from

2:04:07>> Could I ask staff to share at least with

2:04:09me and maybe everyone wants an

2:04:10electronic copy of what's already

2:04:12written about the mobility study? I

2:04:15think you have a proposal or something.

2:04:17The scheme for that that would be

2:04:19helpful.

2:04:20>> Um yeah, I'm about to head out. I'm

2:04:22sorry I have a commitment, but um

2:04:24we have a request for proposals that's

2:04:27out now. That's something we could

2:04:29definitely share.

2:04:31>> Yeah. And if you

2:04:33if you want to see here I can email an

2:04:36update, but it's you know, on our

2:04:37business property

2:04:40but they they

2:04:41Oh, it's on mine already?

2:04:42>> Yeah.

2:04:43It's about to close. So.

2:04:45>> [laughter]

2:04:46>> Well, thank [clears throat] you everyone

2:04:47for indulging me in that.

2:04:49Appreciate that.

2:04:50And I'm done. Do you want to adjourn?

2:04:52Okay. I think we've got a couple of

2:04:54things.

2:04:55Um

2:04:56one is

2:04:59something to ask.

2:05:01Any other business to bring up?

2:05:04>> I don't know.

2:05:05Necessarily I just find like that

2:05:07prepared.

2:05:08Uh but I did want to just ask

2:05:11if anyone here has

2:05:13considered or if the town council has

2:05:15considered

2:05:16just at a high level of

2:05:19three or four items.

2:05:20Modal filters, which if you don't know

2:05:22what that is, it's a way for someone to

2:05:25walk or bike from one street to another

2:05:28without a a car being able to go

2:05:29through.

2:05:30Different than a sidewalk or a greenway.

2:05:33It's literally like

2:05:36bollards

2:05:37in between a road that block a car from

2:05:40being able to drive through. It's very

2:05:41cheap things to to add, but it you know,

2:05:46helps with the neighbors with their

2:05:48traffic, you know, having cars run down

2:05:50it, but it allows people to walk and

2:05:52bike through it.

2:05:54Uh second thing is smaller fire

2:05:57I know it's really hard to get a smaller

2:05:59fire truck right now in America, but if

2:06:01we were to do that, it would make it so

2:06:03that at some point we could narrow our

2:06:04roads and have smaller crosswalks and

2:06:06smaller streets in general, which would

2:06:08slow them down, would improve the

2:06:10comfort of walking and biking and so on.

2:06:13>> Something with smaller cars then?

2:06:15Big way.

2:06:16>> And the cars aren't getting smaller, but

2:06:18the fire trucks because they're so long,

2:06:21they

2:06:22require the

2:06:24the corners around roads to be

2:06:27>> I sent you a mass or five-page

2:06:29dissertation that I got from the fire

2:06:31chief uh because for years been chasing

2:06:34them for a smaller

2:06:35smaller trucks and you know,

2:06:38>> I figured someone has probably looked

2:06:40into that. I know at some point during

2:06:43I know at some point you mentioned like

2:06:44Dutch trucks in in one of the town

2:06:46council meetings, so I I figured that

2:06:49was brought up. I just wanted to

2:06:51clarify that.

2:06:53And then lastly,

2:06:55um just

2:06:56it's a suggestion. I don't know if this

2:06:58is even possible, but

2:07:01if people are having a financial issue

2:07:03of getting into cycling because in a in

2:07:05a physical issue because they're not

2:07:07strong enough,

2:07:08uh

2:07:09you know, we have a lot of hills. 4 to

2:07:116% grade is pretty easy to find. And if

2:07:14you don't know what that means in the

2:07:15cycling world, that's like a mountain.

2:07:17It's like basically 6% is basically you

2:07:19can't you can't go over that with

2:07:21without an e-bike.

2:07:23So, like has Apex or anyone ever

2:07:25considered

2:07:27like helping to fund e-bikes for others

2:07:31to buy? I know like there's a scam where

2:07:33you could like, "Oh, I live in Apex, so

2:07:34I'm going to get an e-bike so I can move

2:07:35out." I know that's a thing to consider,

2:07:37but

2:07:39um I know a bike share program is really

2:07:42expensive and very difficult to

2:07:44maintain. Maybe that's maybe not the

2:07:46commitment that Apex is ready to be, but

2:07:48maybe just uh

2:07:50a short-term

2:07:52you know,

2:07:53Apex loaner program where

2:07:55we're going to help uh

2:07:58with with members of the community that

2:07:59can't afford an e-bike to have an

2:08:01e-bike. And then all of a sudden,

2:08:03uh you buy a pannier and like all those

2:08:04other stuff that you can do with your

2:08:05groceries really easily. And

2:08:10on finally on the topic of that, any

2:08:12developments that we have that are quite

2:08:14far to bike,

2:08:15are we

2:08:17considering showers being built into

2:08:19them like if it's an office or anything

2:08:22that has people who work in a a closed

2:08:25environment

2:08:27where they need to be clean? They can

2:08:29feel fine getting an e-bike for like 10

2:08:30miles or so.

2:08:32>> They probably have a locker room

2:08:34set up in an office space. Why don't you

2:08:37mention it?

2:08:37>> Yeah, so if you You to like huge office

2:08:40buildings like Fidelity or something

2:08:41like that. They probably do have a

2:08:43shower built in whenever you bike there

2:08:45or whatever, you can take a shower at

2:08:48their gym and then you can go to work.

2:08:49This is very common in big cities. But

2:08:51when you pay taxes, have you ever

2:08:52thought about that?

2:08:53>> I did.

2:08:54The town doesn't have the ability to

2:08:56park.

2:08:57>> Okay.

2:08:58>> So we'd be competitive zoning and you

2:09:00know, okay, we're going to zone this for

2:09:01light industrial, you can go in an

2:09:03office building. But what if it develops

2:09:06to become adult, all right? But we have

2:09:08that

2:09:10>> Okay. That That clarifies it a little

2:09:12bit.

2:09:13>> I like the idea.

2:09:14>> Yeah.

2:09:19Uh so those are the things I wanted to

2:09:20mention. We don't have to do anything

2:09:22motions about that.

2:09:23Um I just wanted to

2:09:26bring some light to the office.

2:09:28>> I'll back you up on a loaner program for

2:09:30bikes. I think younger commuters who are

2:09:32taking the bus would be really happy if

2:09:34they could afford to have a bike.

2:09:36It would be easier to work out.

2:09:37>> Cuz those are like good ones are like

2:09:39$3,000. You can get a a decent one for

2:09:411,500, but even that, that's a lot.

2:09:45>> Are there any grant programs available

2:09:47in the town that you're for?

2:09:50>> We can e-bike voucher.

2:09:52>> Yes.

2:09:55>> Not really in North Carolina.

2:09:58I think vouchers are being learned.

2:10:00Yeah, a lot of it's very limited.

2:10:01>> Yeah.

2:10:02>> Okay.

2:10:05>> I want e-bikes in there which

2:10:08>> And there's no e-bikes in there.

2:10:10And there's the

2:10:12kind of e-bike

2:10:12>> But you know, the no throttle ones.

2:10:14>> Not that it's bad.

2:10:15>> I don't like throttle bikes.

2:10:17>> So the throttle ones are

2:10:20a little bit of a

2:10:21menace right now,

2:10:22>> They really are a lot of safety and

2:10:24safety concerns and safety issues.

2:10:27Um but kind of the pedal assist bikes

2:10:33So the short answer is like no, we have

2:10:34not considered any program.

2:10:39>> I think age interest growth for people

2:10:41that want a bike, Can't afford said

2:10:44bike.

2:10:45But

2:10:46like

2:10:46>> So, I mean, for years I

2:10:49helped out

2:10:51in both the high school ministry and the

2:10:53church.

2:10:55We just shut down permanently.

2:10:58We donated bikes for free.

2:11:00So, we we had community

2:11:02community nights.

2:11:05Um

2:11:05>> And the community members working that

2:11:08>> Yeah, they they they basically like you

2:11:10know, you can

2:11:11walk in there and do it.

2:11:13Give you a bike now and

2:11:15Um

2:11:16So, there's a lot of

2:11:18Yeah, the ton of

2:11:21interest from the community. Yeah, we

2:11:23had some

2:11:25Um we had three bikes that people

2:11:28donated for the month.

2:11:29And we could not give them away. Um

2:11:32so,

2:11:32>> But that was kind of my concern. Like

2:11:33it's it's town for my opinion and to

2:11:36invest in that.

2:11:36>> Oh, that's the simple

2:11:38one person, right? So, um you know, I We

2:11:42we we like I said, we

2:11:43we had we had a couple of that.

2:11:45People just didn't want They they didn't

2:11:47want to know.

2:11:48>> Yeah, or didn't have a way to use the

2:11:50email.

2:11:51>> So, anyways, um we we we were not very

2:11:54successful with some of the dots.

2:11:56Also, you know, they I'm more worried

2:11:58about how to construct them like that.

2:12:02Who is qualified

2:12:06Um

2:12:07something like that.

2:12:08means

2:12:10We're considering if there is a niche

2:12:12I don't know if this town is or our

2:12:13examples they can have some programs.

2:12:15Okay. That's uh that's where we have the

2:12:17money to get the food from.

2:12:23>> I think one thing that communities run

2:12:24into like the challenge of tracking

2:12:27these bikes once they're given away,

2:12:28they can be sold.

2:12:30So, they may get

2:12:31>> Yeah, that was one of the things I was

2:12:32thinking

2:12:34>> still have the bike.

2:12:38>> Your first comment about bollards.

2:12:41>> Bollards?

2:12:41>> Yes.

2:12:42>> Bollards?

2:12:42>> Lack of technical expertise what you

2:12:44described as bollards. Were there

2:12:45certain intersections or locations you

2:12:47had in mind or were you just thinking

2:12:49broadly?

2:12:50>> Yes. So, the

2:12:53North Salem Street rezoning that I hear

2:12:56people complaining about traffic.

2:12:59Um

2:13:00just put a motor filter in there.

2:13:03Um you know, make it retractable. Maybe

2:13:06just make it removable so that like

2:13:09emergency vehicles can get through

2:13:10there. They don't

2:13:11>> Sorry, you're saying there's one that's

2:13:12already there?

2:13:13>> No.

2:13:14No, I'm saying if if there's contention

2:13:16about traffic, you can have a motor

2:13:18filter so that it's connected, but only

2:13:22certain vehicles can get through it, not

2:13:25everyday traffic.

2:13:26>> Like restricted

2:13:30>> Yes.

2:13:31>> Basically, so think of it as this.

2:13:33So, if you think of how our

2:13:35neighborhoods are all connected,

2:13:36neighborhoods and all that sort of

2:13:37thing, they might be fighting up against

2:13:39each other. But unless there's a street

2:13:41stop, there's no need to

2:13:43So, think of it as a small pathway

2:13:45through you know, through the woods that

2:13:47that's you know, allows you to walk or

2:13:48bike through.

2:13:50Um but cars cannot get through.

2:13:53Um

2:13:54>> Like a greenway.

2:13:55>> Almost. That's the feeling just if I'm

2:13:57in your neighborhood

2:13:58>> It really is like a road that has

2:14:01bollards just plopped in the middle of

2:14:02it.

2:14:03>> So, the um

2:14:04>> Just trying to get visual here. What are

2:14:06you

2:14:06>> Yeah.

2:14:07So, um

2:14:08>> Cuz when you talked about them letting

2:14:09emergency vehicles have access

2:14:11that's

2:14:12You see how if you can't walk or bike

2:14:14through your neighborhood or anything

2:14:15like that.

2:14:16>> Yeah, and so I would I would argue

2:14:17that's not that's not going to happen in

2:14:19that in that area of the city. So, we

2:14:21will not give up a road connection.

2:14:24Right? Uh and then we would have to

2:14:27just you know, adjust it.

2:14:29>> Okay.

2:14:30>> Under normal circumstances, uh because

2:14:33those stub streets are there for a

2:14:34reason, right? They are emergency

2:14:36>> I I think they should be connected,

2:14:38absolutely.

2:14:39>> They they're meant to fill out the inter

2:14:40plan.

2:14:43>> Mhm.

2:14:43>> Um but I can see a use between existing

2:14:47neighborhoods, right? Where you know, we

2:14:49improve the bikeability, walkability by

2:14:52having some short connections.

2:14:54>> So, we have talked about that, but

2:14:56as new developments come in, if they

2:14:59have the ability to connect to existing

2:15:01greenways to make those connections.

2:15:03Um,

2:15:04I know that that's reached town council,

2:15:05but

2:15:06I know we've definitely talked about

2:15:08it several meetings.

2:15:10>> And just to jump in on that, I think

2:15:13most of the handle that seems really

2:15:14noticeable here.

2:15:15>> Kind of like we are in areas that are

2:15:17more of

2:15:18a completed grid, and there you go a lot

2:15:21of like through traffic, through

2:15:22residential streets, through other

2:15:24things like that. And also, all using to

2:15:26divert traffic so that you can't just go

2:15:29straight through the intersection. You

2:15:31have to turn right, straight, or left.

2:15:33But, I suppose it's simple, but here

2:15:34it's kind of adapting to everything in

2:15:36the structure

2:15:37when traffic patterns change. Um,

2:15:41so, I mean, Apex is probably

2:15:44um,

2:15:45almost the opposite problem in some

2:15:47places where there's not quite enough

2:15:48connectivity, and so, you get some

2:15:50streets where everyone has to go that

2:15:52way because there's no other option.

2:15:54Um, so, I think what you're saying, um,

2:15:56Mr. Wagner, is, you know,

2:15:59looking looking at areas where we can

2:16:02still more connectivity is probably just

2:16:07as important as controlling some of

2:16:09those areas where there's a

2:16:12too much uh, uh,

2:16:13traffic going through the area.

2:16:16>> Um,

2:16:16>> And and again, I like the idea that we

2:16:18start nothing out there.

2:16:21We want to get a bicycle position for A

2:16:23and B,

2:16:25and we're stuck either there because,

2:16:27you know, there's no connectivity to

2:16:28these two neighborhoods. So, we got to

2:16:30do that.

2:16:31You go around, or you got to go to the

2:16:33State Road, and then there's a sidewalk

2:16:35there, but you cannot

2:16:37uh, you know,

2:16:39they would have a very short greenway

2:16:41that could connect these these

2:16:43neighborhoods. You know, those are

2:16:45investments that

2:16:46we have to consider, right, to improve

2:16:48the overall walkability. Right.

2:16:50>> Right.

2:16:50They build their own path, and it starts

2:16:52>> Right. Yeah, exactly.

2:16:55>> The word already exists in the

2:16:56dictionary. Paved with that and it's

2:16:57clearly new.

2:16:58>> No, of course there there needs to be

2:17:01communal spaces in the communal space.

2:17:02Yeah, and I think there's a difference

2:17:04between like, you know,

2:17:04>> Both sides of the road.

2:17:07>> Um so it's it needs to be, you know, HOA

2:17:10owned property to HOA owned property. So

2:17:12the

2:17:12>> Stakeholders.

2:17:13>> Right.

2:17:15Um but but yeah, so I

2:17:17it's it's it's

2:17:18good idea. I like I like it.

2:17:21Um I'm not

2:17:22I'm stuck in that middle of the road

2:17:23right now.

2:17:24I don't know if I can put these things

2:17:25right there right now, but

2:17:26>> Right.

2:17:28I mainly bring that up to educate. I

2:17:30don't have any specific locations that I

2:17:32believe require it. And as

2:17:35as she mentioned, they are usually at

2:17:36larger grid systems. So if

2:17:39if these were ever to pop up, they'd

2:17:40probably be at the old traditional grid

2:17:42of Apex.

2:17:44Um if traffic ever got insane there,

2:17:46like maybe

2:17:47Tuttle Avenue or something like that.

2:17:49Um but yeah, I I've mainly just bring

2:17:51that up for education. If

2:17:55Kirkland or anyone is aware of that

2:17:57stuff, then

2:17:59But I do agree like Apex

2:18:01is definitely a space where

2:18:03it'd probably be easier, probably more

2:18:05beneficial to add

2:18:07greenway like

2:18:09links to existing roads where right of

2:18:13way

2:18:15residential

2:18:17agreements can be made.

2:18:21>> Indeed.

2:18:24>> [clears throat]

2:18:25>> Um in

2:18:26business

2:18:27>> Just reminders. Um I'll leave the thank

2:18:29you cards for the bus operation on

2:18:31Appreciation Day. If you have time to

2:18:33sign one or break it out, I'll leave

2:18:34them on this table. And then the

2:18:36committee also asked the group to

2:18:37consider identifying two dates that work

2:18:39with their own schedules for bus tour. I

2:18:41know it's not the best time. I can also

2:18:43put out some proposed dates in the

2:18:45survey. Just let me know that later. Or

2:18:47if board would like to share some just

2:18:49general availabilities that I can kind

2:18:51of bring back to the subcommittee. I

2:18:53should have done that so.

2:18:55But if the board feels like the new

2:18:55program will be ready to be

2:18:57in two days.

2:19:01>> What is What is the night of the tour?

2:19:03Do it. Do it.

2:19:05Did you hear what he said? I couldn't

2:19:07hear what he said.

2:19:08>> The dates for the appreciation day that

2:19:10we're doing it on.

2:19:11>> You know the bus tours, so uh

2:19:14board guided

2:19:16group bus tours. Um that's been

2:19:18something that the committee talked

2:19:19about in the past uh organizing. So it's

2:19:21part of that effort to organize. Uh just

2:19:24offering an opportunity to either public

2:19:26commerce and then provide two potential

2:19:27dates

2:19:28uh to have two different groups.

2:19:30>> And then into the other bus thing we're

2:19:32just riding our circular.

2:19:34>> The intent was just to ride route one.

2:19:36Now there's

2:19:39collective interest to ride route three

2:19:41or five or eleven, we can also organize

2:19:43that.

2:19:43>> And I think for me not being a normal

2:19:46traditional like everyday bus rider

2:19:49and I haven't ridden a bus in several

2:19:50years, I think it might be worth seeing

2:19:53what our circular route looks like and

2:19:55then see what the transitional municipal

2:19:57building to the Cary lines looks like.

2:20:00Even if we don't go too far into Cary or

2:20:02just stop at downtown Cary, come back

2:20:03home just to see what the process looks

2:20:05like for people that do this everyday.

2:20:07>> Ironically, if you ride the Cary route

2:20:09nine, you're going to want to go all the

2:20:11way to the end.

2:20:14I know.

2:20:17>> Yeah, I understand.

2:20:17>> I never got route nine.

2:20:20>> [clears throat]

2:20:20>> I yeah, yeah. I appreciate it.

2:20:21>> Thank you. Thank you.

2:20:24Let's do it three.

2:20:26Email?

2:20:26>> Okay. So I'll

2:20:28I was going to say to confirm we can't

2:20:30have quorum on the bus route either,

2:20:31right?

2:20:32>> Correct. That was the intent of having

2:20:33two separate dates.

2:20:35As long as as long as you don't have

2:20:37five on one.

2:20:42>> And uh the last thing is just we'll have

2:20:44a new appointment or a new appointment

2:20:47for

2:20:48the town council on Monday.

2:20:51Don't be

2:20:52any recommendations, so

2:20:54Yeah, we we're so

2:20:55excited that you joined us, Rohan, as a

2:20:58like business person.

2:21:00If we can find a paratransit rider, I

2:21:03think that's really the missing piece.

2:21:09That would be great. We've already used

2:21:11the Go Lake Paratransit.

2:21:18And that would be something easier. And

2:21:20the last is and I don't know

2:21:23the best way

2:21:25to ask you, maybe give us some guidance

2:21:27on this. Is it that if Rohan's

2:21:29interested in this document, can you

2:21:31just let me know or how does that work?

2:21:34Is that going to be appointed? What does

2:21:35that mean?

2:21:36>> I think consistent with previously, we

2:21:37would want a motion to officially

2:21:39appoint you. I mean, you can obviously

2:21:41vote for whichever committee or

2:21:42whichever subcommittee you think you

2:21:44would be a good fit for.

2:21:45And then the board would just need to

2:21:47make a motion on that.

2:21:50>> [clears throat]

2:21:50>> So, if you like if you know now, we can

2:21:53do that now.

2:21:54>> I

2:21:54>> I would like to work through the minutes

2:21:56and sort of see the scope.

2:21:59>> I do not know now, but while I research

2:22:03that, is there one in particular that

2:22:05you think you'd be a good fit for?

2:22:07>> I think we're greedy for safety because

2:22:09I'm just being greedy.

2:22:11I think everyone wants to

2:22:12>> I would say it's really more about what

2:22:13you find interesting.

2:22:17Or I should say the most interesting.

2:22:19>> Infrastructure.

2:22:20>> Safety.

2:22:21>> Safety is interesting.

2:22:24>> Yeah, research.

2:22:26>> It's all our committees that welcome it.

2:22:29>> I mean, selfishly, because our

2:22:32infrastructure subcommittee is down to

2:22:34two members because Sacket has resigned,

2:22:38I would say

2:22:39we would welcome you with open arms, but

2:22:42obviously,

2:22:43that's just me. How often do we meet?

2:22:46How often do we meet? We meet every two

2:22:48months.

2:22:49>> And all the subcommittees have

2:22:51established their meeting cadence.

2:22:54>> Do you have the FY? So, if you also make

2:22:56time to use those dates.

2:22:57>> Yeah.

2:22:58>> What's your calendar?

2:22:58>> Yeah, we already have all those meeting

2:23:00dates. We set those up last week for the

2:23:02remainder of the year.

2:23:04>> And I think those are in all the minutes

2:23:06when that company dates are. So, if you

2:23:08want to take a look

2:23:09at that, because um

2:23:12>> Those may not be because those were set

2:23:14when they were on the 29th, but I can

2:23:16give you those dates.

2:23:18>> I know. Yeah.

2:23:19I wasn't sure if I could get them.

2:23:20>> Okay.

2:23:21>> Yeah, I'll just break out all the

2:23:23subject meetings.

2:23:25>> I appreciate that.

2:23:30Any other business?

2:23:32>> No discussion today. It's time to bring

2:23:34it to a turn.

2:23:35>> Thank you.

2:23:38>> I move to adjourn. Thank you.

2:23:40>> Yes, we will second the motion.

2:23:46>> Did the action get recorded?

2:23:48>> Okay, you're exactly right.

2:23:53>> We do return.

2:23:55>> That was the only motion we turned in.

2:23:56>> Agreed. I second that motion.

2:23:58>> There's a motion in the second. All

2:24:00those in favor signify by saying "Aye."

2:24:02>> Aye.

2:24:03>> Aye.

2:24:04>> Thank you for participating. Good

2:24:05afternoon.

2:24:06>> Thank you. Thank you.

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