2026-10-07 - Data Center Subcommittee Meeting

01:10congress.

01:32Yes.

11:30order the October 7th data center

11:33subcommittee meeting. Now that we have

11:34established a quorum, welcome back

11:36everybody and let's go ahead and jump

11:41right in. Tonight we'll be talking about

11:43noise.

11:52This is a side thing, but they they put

11:55a little label on here saying to please

11:57stand in front of this podium when

11:58you're speaking. It's just it's been

12:00needed. It's funny. [laughter]

12:02People people will naturally stand over

12:04here. All right. Well, good evening,

12:06subcommittee members. It's nice to see

12:07you all again. It's nice to see the new

12:08members who have joined us, Kimberly and

12:10Romesh as well. Um, we've met on we've

12:13had a couple meetings already so far.

12:14The next one in our series is going to

12:16be on noise and how uh noise impacts are

12:18created at data centers and how to

12:19mitigate those maybe potentially.

12:22Additionally, in front of you there is a

12:24a pretty lengthy draft of a noise

12:26ordinance related to data centers in

12:28front of you. This is a just a working

12:29document. This is um not been vetted by

12:32any other departments or anything else

12:33like that. This is just kind of getting

12:34a feel for the subcommittee's desires

12:37and wants and to provide direction. Um

12:40this information will be posted online

12:41later on after the presentation. We'll

12:43go ahead and get started.

12:46So, do a quick little noise overview.

12:48We're going to talk about noise types

12:50and sources for data centers. So, we're

12:52just talking about noise types. I'm

12:54going to start off by letting you know,

12:55and it's probably pretty obvious, I am

12:57not an engineer, a mathematician, or

12:59anyone who deals with uh some of these

13:01complex things. So, I'm going be doing

13:02my best to kind of give you the layman

13:03understanding of some of these. So, if

13:05there's any questions I can't answer,

13:06I'll be happy to reach out to someone

13:07who can answer them for you. Um, but

13:09we'll try and get through this as best

13:10we can with all of our expertise in the

13:11room.

13:13So, talking about noise types, there's

13:14there's uh different uh hertz and

13:16frequencies and ranges that make up

13:18noise in general. Um the human range

13:20falls between 20 hertz and uh 20,000

13:23hertz as you can see here on the screen

13:24in front of you or on your screens in

13:26front of you. There's infrasound, which

13:28is sound that's it's too low for us to

13:29be able to audibly hear. Um but there

13:31may be some physical feelings from that

13:34as well. And then there's ultrasound,

13:35which is also beyond our normal range of

13:37hearing, but may be uh used in different

13:39areas and aspects. We'll focus more on

13:41infrasound today because this can be

13:44generated by large machinery and other

13:46powerful sources on sites and things

13:47like that which play kind of plays into

13:49the center. So we'll touch briefly on

13:50that.

13:53And when it comes to planning and kind

13:54of land use options and things like that

13:56and especially municipal um noise

13:59ordinances and things like that, most

14:00noise ordinances in the last probably 50

14:03years have looked at um looking at the

14:05decibel ranges and really looking at the

14:06decibel weighted scales for A, which

14:09really is a human focus centric. And

14:11this graphic just kind of illustrates

14:12what an A scale looks like. So, it looks

14:15at all the hertz, it looks at different

14:17hertz and ranges and provides um a

14:19weighted measurement, but really it kind

14:21of filters out all of the lower

14:23frequency noises that humans really

14:25don't pick up on and things like that.

14:27So, there's kind of there there are

14:28definitely gaps in it as well. More

14:30municipalities as uses like these hypers

14:33scale data centers and things like that

14:34are coming online and coming online

14:36closer to residential uses are starting

14:38to adopt more of a also measuring for

14:41the weighted seale as well. And so that

14:43takes into effect a little bit a bit

14:45more of the overall um frequency range,

14:49but sometimes there's still stuff

14:51lacking there. We'll talk about that a

14:52little bit later. And you have to really

14:54get into the nitty-gritty and kind of

14:55look at the octave band sound levels,

14:57which is kind of looking at each

14:58individual little band to see where the

15:00noise is actually being generated

15:02because sometimes you may be generating

15:04a lot of noise and it hurts way down

15:06here, but it won't show up if you're

15:07doing an A-weed measurement with the

15:09device on the side.

15:13So just looking at kind of a a generic

15:15layout of a data center and where the

15:18noise may come from. We have substations

15:20which can produce low hums, medium to

15:22low high frequency sounds. There'll

15:24obviously be the HVACs and the air

15:26handlers. There'll be generators,

15:28cooling towers, air chillers, and all

15:30things like that which are all going to

15:31make a variation of noise depending on

15:33the the the

15:36overall percentage of workload they're

15:38using. But the thing about data centers

15:40that we'll keep in mind is that

15:42especially the hypers scale data centers

15:43which we talked about they operate with

15:45the 59s they're always operational. It's

15:47247 and so that's kind of the

15:49differentiating thing between this and

15:51maybe another industrial user who also

15:53has um noise generating equipment but

15:56usually there's an operation hours

15:58unless it's something very specific.

16:02So just going to run through these real

16:03quick. Some of you have seen this stuff

16:04before. So substation noise again this

16:07can generate 80 to 100 dB um in the a

16:10weighted scale. I have a little graphic

16:12here just to show you kind of like this

16:14humming. This lower frequency noise is

16:16pretty dominant here between 20 and 200

16:18would be the low frequency and then it

16:20starts reaching the Aweed higher

16:22frequency there range. These can be very

16:25large um when you're talking about the

16:27data centers that one that was proposed

16:29here and others that are being proposed

16:31that are much larger. These facilities

16:33are having to build these substations on

16:35site and they can be massive and they do

16:37generate some noise itself.

16:40We talked about the air handling units.

16:42These are kind of what they look like.

16:43They can be um on they can move air

16:47around on the facility itself. They can

16:48be located on different places whether

16:50that's rooftop, on the ground, anywhere

16:52they need to be. They can generate the

16:54low frequency noise as well.

16:57Aircooled chillers, we talked about

16:58those. There's another illustration. Um

17:00they do produce different frequencies

17:02from different parts of the machine

17:03itself. So um you may have mid to high

17:06from the low to bottom areas and then

17:08mid to low to mid frequencies being

17:10generated from the uplast fans. A lot of

17:12the lower frequencies is going to be

17:14generated from the air moving and air

17:16cooling equipment on site as with the

17:18fan and stuff as well.

17:24Backup generators obviously they're

17:26they're going to be definitely um noise

17:28contributors. Um so this really goes

17:30into effect as well. I don't know if you

17:32guys have heard news. There's a lot of

17:33data centers that are coming online with

17:35um their own uh on-site generation

17:39power. So depending on how they're doing

17:40that, if they're using diesel generators

17:43to help provide some of the power, that

17:44means the diesel generators are running

17:45even more often than than they would if

17:47it was just for backup energy alone and

17:49cailment. So these potentially are

17:51producing a wide spectrum of frequency

17:53of noise on the site given its use.

17:57Again, cooling towers. Again, given the

18:00large amount of fans and that with

18:01moving air moving through them, they

18:03again are going to produce a lot of

18:04sound on the site, which we we've talked

18:06about before.

18:08Some of the just some typical of the

18:10decibel levels that are at some of

18:12these. So, diesel generators can, you

18:14know, anywhere between 75 to 85 when

18:16they're enclosed, 95 to 105 when they're

18:20un unenclosed. Air coolers, we're

18:22looking at um 80 to 95. cooling tower is

18:2670 to 90 dB and on and on. Um you can

18:29see the substation around 60 to 80 dB

18:33and that provided the uh the range of

18:35where these were all measured at

18:38and the construction noise and traffic

18:40and fuel deliveries as well. So all of

18:41these things u many of them will be

18:43going at the same time on any site

18:44whatsoever. So you have a lot of areas

18:46where a lot of loud noises are coming

18:48and it takes a lot of consideration and

18:49thought to try and minimize or prevent

18:51it.

18:54So the way the reason data center is

18:56different kind of touched on is that the

18:57continuous noise 247 for most of these

19:00facilities is really going to have an

19:01impact especially on people who maybe

19:03they don't hear it when they're at work

19:05or they're away or they're at school but

19:06when they get home and they're trying to

19:07relax or spend time with their family

19:10that constant noise is there and it can

19:11be a little detrimental to their health.

19:12Talked about the generators and the low

19:14frequency noises how those can impact it

19:16as well.

19:19And so talking a little bit about best

19:21ways to to manage it and why why there

19:24are issues that come up is the DBA

19:26obviously isn't even isn't capturing a

19:28lot of those lower frequencies. It's not

19:30being checked for measured. But even

19:32when you're doing DBA and DBAC sometimes

19:35there's a gap that still gets missed.

19:37And so that's why um you'll see when

19:39you're reviewing some of the material in

19:41front of you on the proposed language

19:43for a UDO amendment um it's actually

19:45talks about incorporating maybe all

19:46three or having the one-/ird octave band

19:49which allows you to see an even more

19:50detailed version of the noise being

19:52generated at each band of frequency.

19:57Uh we also have to consider when we're

19:58talking about noise that the weather and

20:00temperature can affect it as well. Um, I

20:02am not an expert on this, but

20:04essentially downwinds can help move

20:06noise and push it. Temperature can help

20:08adjust where the noise is. Relative

20:10humidity also plays a factor. So, that's

20:12also something that needs to be

20:13considered at any type of modeling or um

20:16testing it as well, like need to test on

20:18a clear day where there's no potential

20:20for wind, weather, or anything else to

20:21kind of give you a false positive or

20:23false result.

20:26So, there's a couple things. Um, some of

20:28these were were graciously provided or

20:30shared with us from uh residents in the

20:32town. I thought this one was really

20:34interesting. We talked about Prince

20:36William County in Virginia quite a bit.

20:38Um, this was a data center noise study

20:40report done by um uh PhD uh John Lever

20:44out there. He I believe it was a county

20:46commissioner, but he also taught uh at

20:47George Mason. He has a quite an

20:49extensive uh background. Um I have

20:52obviously not have the criteria to

20:54really measure or judge um John's

20:57material here but I thought it was a

20:58great thing to look at and kind of get

21:00an idea of all the work he did. Um this

21:02will be provided to you on the website

21:03and sent to you as well after this

21:04meeting so you can review it at your

21:05leisure.

21:08So some of the things he looked at he he

21:09took looked at all these different small

21:11areas and he studied them and he was

21:13trying to predict what the range of the

21:15noise would be with the builtout data

21:17centers and how that would increase

21:18given the area. So he looked at all

21:20these different areas. One thing that's

21:22interesting to note is that um for the

21:24summary of the tables, he also looked at

21:25the local noise ordinances, specifically

21:27Prince William County, and he wanted to

21:29see that what percentage of those areas

21:32that he reviewed would actually be

21:33violating their current noise ordinance

21:35if they were fully built out. So from

21:37his results and his studies, it looks

21:39like almost all but two would be 100%

21:43would be violating their own noise

21:44ordinance in place right there at the

21:45time. So best intentions, you had a

21:48noise ordinance. You wanted people to

21:49follow it, but things happen and

21:52unfortunately unforeseen circumstances

21:54and in the fast pace of this probably

21:55led them to have issues with that.

21:59Again, on this table six here, um this

22:01looks at a little bit more specific. The

22:03current noise with the added data

22:06centers and then the multiplier and then

22:08the closest data centers in feed. So

22:09here you can kind of see exactly how far

22:12away these data centers are and still

22:13how much of a a growth there will be in

22:16overall noise. So at the very top the

22:18clubhouse we're going from 50.5 to

22:20potentially 68.7. That's quite the jump.

22:23It's a lot of noise being generated. Um

22:25you can see some here are going up into

22:27the 70s from the generation and they're

22:30still very far away. So just creating a

22:32lot of noise in general and that's

22:34something to be aware of. He created

22:35some great illustrations and maps

22:38that uh I'm share with you now. So um

22:41the red is all currently operating data

22:42center buildings with road noise. So

22:44that's taken into effect and then the

22:46net noise is after buildout. So these

22:47are modeled and anticipated. So again

22:50you can kind of see how how much noise

22:52some of these are providing or creating

22:54addition. So you have the Carter wood

22:56area here which right now is about 44.1

22:59very quiet. Uh and then it's increasing

23:02to 65. So that's a pretty perceptible

23:04change that people will probably notice.

23:06Um you normal normal conversation is

23:09about 60 dB. Um, but when you're going

23:12from that much of a jump, it starts to

23:14feel louder and louder and louder.

23:18Here's another example of another small

23:19area that he looked at um with predicted

23:22noise intensities. Again, these are

23:23predicted, so it it's there could be

23:25some issues there, but it's still

23:27interesting. Again, you can see that

23:29even as far away as some of these are,

23:31which are almost almost a mile in some

23:32cases, there's still a very large

23:35increase in the amount of data center uh

23:37noise that was generated from what was

23:39originally there. Again,

23:42here's another example of of data

23:44centers with near a brickyard.

23:47And you can see that um if only the

23:49brickyard data center buildings were

23:50built, the the overall increase goes up

23:54a little bit, but then at total build

23:56out we're going up another two and a

23:58half, a little under two and a half

24:00decibels in these areas. So really

24:02contributing. So, and I believe that,

24:04you know, they're trying to achieve the

24:06best they can with their noise

24:07ordinance, but clearly just the volume

24:09and how much of this infrastructure is

24:11going in is just hard to calculate. I

24:13think most local municipalities don't

24:15have the expertise or the staff prepared

24:17to really kind of model these things out

24:18appropriately.

24:21Um, another example here, this will all

24:24be provided to you. It just kind of

24:25gives you a really good idea of distance

24:27required, how the noise

24:30so in in his uh report, it's very long.

24:33Um, so that's why I didn't print it out

24:34for you today. Uh, he did have a summary

24:35and recommendations. His summary

24:37included that the Prince William County

24:40government um do a better job at

24:42fulfilling its obligation to protect

24:43residents by having reliable noise

24:45projections um for these proposed uses

24:48and that North Virginia um should really

24:51find better opportunities and better

24:53more qualified staff to be able to kind

24:55of implement and make sure that the town

24:57and the counties themselves are

24:58protecting their residents. So you did

25:01provide recommendations here. Um they're

25:04not very specific. They're just things

25:06like you need to modernize or noise

25:08ordinances to be participate and expect.

25:10Yeah. Not not very specific, but I will

25:13point out that um Prince William County

25:15has taken some of this to heart and they

25:17did update their noise ordinance in May

25:19of this year and they're they're changed

25:21some things. One thing they're doing is

25:22they're now looking at that multiple

25:23band review so they can kind of see

25:26where these issues are coming from.

25:27They're increasing the distance and

25:28they've kind of taken away a lot of

25:30byight development as well. So they are

25:32working on trying to go in the right

25:33direction. But um

25:35>> are they are they trying to deal with

25:37the uh

25:39idea of multiple data centers being

25:42close to each other and multiplying that

25:45noise?

25:45>> Yeah, that's that's where it's going to

25:47have to I think us people like us who

25:50have not don't have any active data

25:51centers are going to have the the

25:52ability to kind of see the mistake that

25:54they made and work on that. I'm not

25:55sure. I'm hoping that they are because

25:57they obviously have a lot already on the

25:58ground and they need to do that. But as

26:00you can see in that in that work that

26:02it's about full buildout. It's not we're

26:04not allowing not potentially not

26:05allowing any type of phasing and then

26:07we'd have to consider all their uses

26:09potentially with a noise mitigation

26:10plan.

26:11>> And so the ordinances that they're

26:13tightening up are those are not being

26:15applied retroactively.

26:16>> They cannot usually I mean so if it if

26:19any new development there might be

26:21regulations and each state is a little

26:23different on what what they can do. um

26:26like if if we have a non-conforming use

26:28now um it would really depend on the

26:30complaints and things like that of what

26:32we can enforce but if they were approved

26:33and have been an operating users it's

26:34it's really difficult to go back and try

26:36and mitigate that but sometimes it's

26:38helpful sometimes you can go and have

26:39conversations with neighbors and there

26:41could be effects and works and also

26:43depends on where the power is vested is

26:45it a police power is it a planning power

26:47>> I guess I'm a little confused so on on

26:49let's you were talking about data center

26:51whe when they do a full build out

26:53they're going to exceeded the noise

26:56ordinance.

26:58Uh how can they do that? Uh

27:02I mean sure they get approval to do x

27:06number of buildings and stuff but

27:09that all come under overall noise

27:12ordinance

27:13>> thing. I mean that just because they

27:15they got permission to build more

27:17doesn't mean they have to or they can't.

27:20>> Yeah. Part of the problem is that a lot

27:22of jurisdictions weren't looking at

27:24noise being added to the area

27:25whatsoever. They would look for um what

27:28was required as part of your application

27:30submittal and they would review that. A

27:32lot of times when there's more

27:33complicated or um difficult to

27:36understand reports, they come from an

27:37engineer of some sort and they put their

27:39seal on it and they claim that's true.

27:40Um, one interesting fact about about

27:42John's report also is that he reviewed u

27:45an Amazon warehouse uh data center and

27:48he found the report to be um to be

27:51lacking credibility. He thought he

27:53thought there was flaws and he he points

27:55out as part of his report as well. So

27:57there's there's probably I'm not even

27:59going to say that they're deliberate,

28:01but you know there's incompetencies

28:02everywhere.

28:03>> Yeah.

28:07So um one thing to also consider about

28:09noise, it's not just annoying, but these

28:11constant noise annoyances essentially

28:13can impact our health and our lives. Um

28:15there's decades of research and

28:16systematic reviews that have kind of

28:18shown this uh correlation or this

28:21relation to noise of different varying

28:23frequencies and constant it constant

28:25presence on what that can do to our

28:26overall health. um some of the strongest

28:29evidence. It really speaks to kind of

28:30how environmental and transportation

28:32noise um not so much data centers yet

28:35because it hasn't been done is not there

28:36yet, but I think we're going to see if

28:38we continue this scope that uh these

28:40types of uses may also have the impact

28:43um especially since you know think about

28:45airports when they start being built and

28:46things like that and people weren't

28:47thinking about now you see all these

28:49sound barriers and things like that

28:50trying to mitigate it but there's still

28:52you know vulnerable populations that are

28:53around existing airports that still

28:55struggle.

28:56>> Yeah. So the the first point is health

29:00health impact right um I think there is

29:03a there is a talk about um the wildlife

29:08also impacted because of the the noise

29:12the

29:15this this animals listen to that you

29:18know the high frequency and uh their

29:21sleep and their behavior and their you

29:25know reproductive to you know

29:27capabilities all that impacted

29:30um anything on the on the wildlife also

29:33you know help

29:34>> yeah the North Carolina Wildlife

29:36Resource Commission put out something

29:37we're we're in talks with them as well

29:39because um during our conversations we

29:41discussed this and we realized that the

29:43high frequency noise is going to affect

29:44creatures like bats and things like that

29:46um and then there are opportunities and

29:48stuff like that but there isn't a lot of

29:49literature that they found yet on the

29:51low frequency noises and how that's

29:52going to affect them um but we've asked

29:55for more information from them to

29:56provide us with any kind of studies or

29:58research that shows this constant 247

30:01noise how that will impact. Um we will

30:03look at their their flyer or their their

30:05document that they provided as part of

30:06this. Um and their recommendations

30:08really come down to at this point in

30:09time um making sure that you have

30:12acceptable buffer and habitat for these

30:14areas and things like that. I don't know

30:16if it's enough after um reviewing kind

30:19of what other places are doing just for

30:21human impact. Um, I think that given

30:24some of our furry neighbors are a bit

30:26more sensitive to these type of things

30:27as well that it may need to be increased

30:29or continue to be looked at. And I think

30:30as more research comes out about that,

30:31we'll be able to address that a bit

30:33better.

30:33>> I was reading something the other day

30:35that indicated that

30:38there was more there were more studies

30:40documenting the adverse effects on

30:42wildlife than were on on humans. At

30:45least being able to correlate.

30:48>> I can find a lot on light. Um and I mean

30:51a lot of studies a lot of studies on the

30:53negative effects are done on animals

30:55like there's a lot of Yeah. So I mean a

30:58lot of these

30:59>> health research things are actually done

31:00on animals and then they're yeah

31:05>> so you're talking about in a laboratory

31:07setting versus wildlife.

31:09Well, I to be honest, I don't know how

31:12they conducted the studies. Uh, but it

31:15was a discussion about various studies

31:18that have taken place. Uh, the

31:22effect on on wildlife. Uh, they could

31:25document the impact better than they can

31:28on humans because it's a lot easier to

31:32isolate

31:34a stud.

31:38And there's there's a study that um the

31:40link is included to this one where um it

31:43was it was an old factory and there was

31:45a a methane um methane stack and

31:49essentially they went in and did a

31:51health assessment for it because people

31:53were reporting all sorts of symptoms and

31:54issues from it and um from the noise and

31:59they concluded that it's hard to really

32:00kind of track when you're in the open

32:02environment like that to really figure

32:03out what's causing this. Like we don't

32:05know what these people are exposed to

32:06elsewhere.

32:07But a lot a lot of the research is is

32:09done with laboratory animals and they

32:11are able to kind of extrapolate that

32:13information. Yeah. Um this has a lot so

32:17we provided you with a lot of um links

32:20and um citations for this time. You

32:24don't have to go through all of them but

32:25if you want to look through some of them

32:26they're they're very insightful. Um some

32:28of significant associations identified

32:29between um the environment and noise is

32:33it's a wide ranging. So we have you know

32:34cardiovascular disease and elevated

32:36blood pressure um all different types of

32:39mortality issues, diabetes, hearing

32:41disorders, neurological outcomes and

32:43other hormonal and reproductive issues

32:45I've seen in some of these studies as

32:46well. Um it's it's really interesting.

32:49Um and definitely it's kind of

32:50surprising that there hasn't been more

32:52talk about just general noise overall in

32:54general in the public. But um so like I

32:56said there's two pages of studies that

32:59we provided. Some of these were were

33:00provided by staff and some of them were

33:02provided by residents um in our

33:03community that they found that they

33:05thought was worth sharing and I think

33:06they were they were some high quality

33:07studies as well. So we'll share those

33:10with you. These will all be on the

33:11website as well as well as um provided

33:13to you guys later in an email back.

33:17Here's the wildlife section. So um like

33:19I said providing appropriate buffers and

33:22setbacks is is what they really

33:23recommend for habitat. Um, you know,

33:26they have like maintaining 150 foot

33:27natural buffer around wetlands and other

33:30important habitat areas. They're really

33:32they focus a lot on lighting. So, you

33:33know, minimizing the artificial lighting

33:36impacts. So, having cut off lights,

33:38maybe having dimmers, having them turn

33:40off, things like that is important. Um,

33:41I think we'll see more from them come

33:43out as uh data centers really start to

33:45roll through North Carolina. Um, I will

33:47continue to look in other jurisdictions

33:49to see if they're thinking about it.

33:50Unfortunately with data centers at the

33:52time it's kind of a human centric topic

33:54but I do think there is impact and just

33:56can't extra.

33:59So there's two pages you'll receive this

34:00document as well.

34:03So as far as mitigation goes um we kind

34:06of talked about how previous codes would

34:08look at the Aweed um measurements for

34:11noise ordinances and try and balance

34:12that. And then we're talking about

34:14adding the C- weighted so we can kind of

34:15capture more of those low frequencies so

34:17we can see what the A was missing. And

34:19then there's the Z or really that that

34:21really is just an unweighted scale. So

34:23it looks it looks across at all of them

34:25here to kind of see what's being

34:27populated by the noise that's being

34:28created in frequency. Um so it kind of

34:31looks like this. And so one third octave

34:32band provides a little bit more detail

34:35as well. So you could see kind of here

34:37the noise being generated is really

34:39generating a lot of decibb in between

34:41the uh 250 and 400 hertz range here. and

34:44it's generating some in the 40 range,

34:46but some in the 4,000K range as well.

34:49But it gives you a bit more

34:50understanding of the wire the noise is

34:52coming from versus just maybe focusing

34:54on um just the maybe the 250 or 250 to

34:59the 1,00. Sometimes looking at A is

35:02enough. Sometimes it's efficient

35:04depending on the use and the type of

35:05product or engagement.

35:09Um, so talking we talked to a uh a an

35:13engineer who works primarily for a large

35:15company. Um, I won't say their name, but

35:18he does a lot of work and we talked to

35:19him about like how do we try and

35:21mitigate this if if this is a use that

35:22maybe town council does want to see or

35:24even just any other type of industrial

35:26uses. Um, he really strongly talked to

35:29us about noise barriers and acoustic

35:31louvers and things like that to try to

35:32mitigate the sound. Um, these need to be

35:34as close to the source as possible.

35:37walls far away do very little and

35:39they're not as effective. Um, and then

35:41sound can travel and move around them.

35:43There are different types of barriers.

35:44Um, there's reflection barriers which um

35:48make bad neighbors I feel like because

35:50you're taking the noise and bouncing it

35:51off the wall and essentially sending it

35:53somewhere else. Um, I think that's an

35:55easy fix for a lot of people because

35:56they can probably get the measurement

35:57they need to on their property line, but

36:00then who knows what it's doing down the

36:01road and it's someone else's problem in

36:02a few years to fix. there's adding

36:04absorption or absorber walls. So these

36:07walls um are filled with different

36:09material. So they're able to kind of

36:10capture a bit of that noise as well. So

36:12less of it is able to to permeate and go

36:14beyond. There's defraction which again

36:17is kind of breaking up the sound into

36:18different areas. So a little bit of it

36:20goes a bunch of different ways. It

36:21reduces the intensity. And then lastly,

36:24distance is always a powerful thing. Um

36:26sound waves that can't be reflected,

36:28absorbed, or defracted may only be able

36:29to be addressed by separation from noise

36:31sources in the sensitive receptor. um

36:34some of the infer infrasound, the lower

36:36frequency sound, the waves are longer,

36:38they can bend, they can go around, they

36:41can go through different things. Um and

36:43so sometimes the effectiveness of the

36:44noise barrier really depends on multiple

36:46things.

36:48So the benefit is if um say we had an

36:51industrial use and we were we were doing

36:52all this testing or having them do

36:54provide the modeling and we saw that

36:56there were more low frequencies than

36:58anticipated we would know that maybe

37:00some of these uh walls like a reflective

37:02wall or things like that may not be the

37:03right solution there maybe need to look

37:05at different things as well in the

37:06process

37:08um benefits of noise barriers. So, it

37:10does reduce can help reduce the noise

37:12pollution. Um, with that can help

37:14improve the health and well-being of

37:15neighbors nearby and even employees. No

37:17one stops to think about employees. I

37:19know it's it's hard to have sympathy

37:20when you're getting paid, but um I

37:23visited some sites for some industrial

37:25uses and I I really have uh developed

37:27some empathy for people that deal with

37:29noise or smells or things like that. Um

37:31it does promote aesthetic appeal. You

37:33can't see as many of these noise

37:34generators. I don't know how much more

37:36attractive um these boxes are and I'll

37:38show you a couple pictures of the boxes

37:39themselves, but um it does it does look

37:42a little different. And then um there is

37:44some environmental impact if you

37:46incorporate maybe some green

37:47infrastructure or noise barriers. We'll

37:49talk a little bit about um relying on on

37:52plantings and green noise barriers as

37:54well in a minute.

37:57So blocking sound transmissions. Um this

37:59was taken by uh this table here is from

38:01the the highway federal highway um

38:04authority and it just kind of breaks

38:06down materials and the the approximate

38:07sounds transmission and loss values for

38:09common materials.

38:11So you can kind of see how it breaks

38:12down the thickness here of the material,

38:14the weight and then the overall

38:16transmission loss um the sound that's

38:18that's being displayed. Um we talked

38:20about this blocking the infrasound is

38:21very difficult to block. Um conventional

38:24sound proofing doesn't work as well.

38:26there's multiple pathways. Um, and this

38:29is where having some type of consultant

38:31is really going to come in handy who can

38:33actually look at what sound's being

38:34generated, where it's moving to, how

38:36it's going, how it's being affected by

38:37the environment and the weather in that

38:39area and uh try and really maximize

38:42protecting the the sensitive receptors

38:43in the area.

38:46So, so just some um some illustrations I

38:49I thought were helpful to look at. So,

38:50this is this is a chiller. You might see

38:53there's fans on the top. So noise is

38:55coming from the fans and coming from the

38:56bottom.

38:57So they their goal was to try and uh

38:59minimize the the sound being generated

39:02from this. And so one thing they did was

39:03an acoustic barrier with an absorption

39:06wall. And so these absorption walls are

39:08filled with different uh mediums inside

39:10and then to help absorb some of the

39:12sound itself.

39:15>> Does the lifespan of one of those walls

39:19is there a lifespan on them?

39:20>> I will have to find that out for you.

39:22Yeah.

39:22>> Um thean usually pretty rusty. The

39:25equipment will get replaced before the

39:27wall would, but

39:30that wall, what's going to happen is

39:33it's going to get the crap beat out of

39:34it when they're doing maintenance

39:36because they're not going to care. So,

39:38they're going to back into it, bump into

39:41it, hit it with a tool box, hit it with

39:44a part. So eventually they get all it's

39:47almost like a industrial garage door

39:50where it just you know the fork list has

39:52hit it a couple times and it's seen

39:55better days but over time they're not as

39:57effective just from getting abused.

40:00>> That's that's a great point. That's one

40:01reason that like wood and other

40:03materials that can crack or have porous

40:04material become ineffective as well. So

40:07that's a potential to happen. Sure. Um

40:09yeah, and then you'll see in this

40:11picture here, there's actually um

40:12additional covering to help mitigate the

40:14noise down here. Um one issue though

40:17I've read about is that when they do

40:18maintenance, they'll take them off and

40:19forget to put them back on. So it's on

40:22for the the initial and then it doesn't

40:24get back on. So then you have the noise

40:25be generated from that.

40:26>> All of these suggestions are separate

40:30from

40:32requirements on equipment. Correct.

40:34because you can specify

40:37covers and limitations on the equipment,

40:41but we're not going to talk about that.

40:44>> We're not. No, we're not. We're so that

40:46would be up to the the professional for

40:49doing the the the sound modeling or the

40:51the noise mitigation plan part of the

40:52part of the UD amendment to come up with

40:54what would be best to approach it

40:55because I don't think one problem we

40:57have in planning is if we get too we we

40:58get prescriptive and we say you have to

41:01do this when it's not the best option

41:02for doing what they need to do. Yeah.

41:04>> And things do change. Um, this is just

41:07really to help everyone understand like

41:09kind of what's being used out there now.

41:11Um, so these are louvers that move

41:13sound.

41:15Additional uh walls are just showing

41:17some concrete footings. This is how big

41:18some of these can look like and be

41:21more barriers that are showing a thicker

41:23louver there. The the acoustic pergola

41:26above top helps pass the noise. We'll

41:28see an example of what that looks like.

41:30So from from their uh their their

41:33presentation they provided that they

41:35were able to reduce sound. Um the

41:37pre-insulation is the red here. So you

41:39know it's at 80 frequency it goes up and

41:41then in the higher frequencies it goes

41:43down. So from the 80 to 70 they're able

41:45to reduce it about 8 to 10 dB um by

41:48using those things. What's important

41:50about that is with we saw all of the

41:52different things they did all these

41:54different materials and they were still

41:56only able to reduce it by eight or 10

41:57dB. So there there is a limit to how

42:00much you can actually reduce. You'll see

42:03products um product pages and details

42:05that'll promise a certain decibel range.

42:08It's almost never possible to obtain the

42:10highest level that they promote.

42:14So back to this. Here's a a large

42:18potential future data center

42:19development. Lots of buildings. You

42:21know, it doesn't look too bad. We have

42:22we have lots of uh wet ponds. We have

42:24some vegetation still on site. There's

42:26buffers all around it.

42:28problem. So, we're talking about noise.

42:31Look how close they are to the roads.

42:33There's some there's maybe 75 ft in some

42:35of these areas or more of vegetation,

42:37existing vegetation present. We from my

42:40uh conversations with sound experts. Um

42:43vegetation does very little to actually

42:45help. It needs to be earth. It needs to

42:46be actual strong materials in the way.

42:49And so, if if a site comes in like this

42:51and we might think like, okay, they're

42:52providing all this good stuff. they're

42:53not tearing up the environment too much

42:55as far as what they're leaving in place.

42:57Um, we really have to be mindful when

42:59we're drafting our details and our

43:01settings about proximity and um, how

43:04we're going to mitigate. If there's a

43:05site that comes in that's maybe

43:07constrained

43:08um, and they have an area where it's

43:10shorter, you know, it's really important

43:11for us to have these standards of like

43:13what the minimum distance is from our

43:15sensitive users and things like that in

43:16place. So, that's just an example kind

43:19of that.

43:21Um this is just a inverse square um

43:25reduction uh example. So as you move

43:28further away from the sound source

43:30itself you start to see a reduction in

43:32sound pressure so decibb. So obviously

43:35the further away you get you see the

43:36most reduction. So again that kind of

43:38reinforces making sure that these are

43:40properly distanced.

43:42Um and then what's left is going through

43:46the paper in front of you guys line by

43:48line. I want to stop though to see if

43:50there's any questions. We're probably

43:51going to have lots of conversations on

43:52this and if we don't get through all of

43:54this today, that's fine. We still have

43:56time dedicated to drafting.

43:57>> The earlier graph is based on,000 ft.

44:01What you saying the distance?

44:03>> Uh it's supposed to be I think it's what

44:06they Yeah, I believe it's

44:08>> 1,00 ft and it will reduce by 60.

44:12>> Maybe it's meters. I'll have to double

44:13check on that. I apologize. I thought it

44:14was on the graph itself. Okay.

44:24So it sounds like similar to air quality

44:27distance isn't really an important

44:30>> distance keeping people

44:33safe. Yeah,

44:37I think you know we're very good at

44:39engineering and one day you know someone

44:41will come up with something that really

44:42helps but does help to kind of put some

44:45space between you.

44:50>> One one question I've got about

44:51setbacks. Um

44:55we can make a setback two miles

44:58>> but if if the the noise

45:02can be 60 Let's say it's property line.

45:05It really doesn't matter how far back

45:08that setback is.

45:09>> Yeah.

45:12>> If you they can be as loud as they want

45:14to be up till they get that property

45:16line.

45:17>> Yeah. If you want to go ahead to

45:20section,

45:27start at section four.

45:36So, um, this is this is different than

45:38probably what we've discussed a little

45:39bit in the past, um, where we talked

45:42about measuring the sound maybe at the

45:43property line and maybe that might be

45:45the way it goes forward. But, um, having

45:48spoken to residents and looking at

45:50different what different places are

45:51trying to do. Um, some of these ideas

45:53actually came from legislation that was,

45:56uh, proposed and in the house for South

45:59Carolina. And so I thought these were

46:00interesting. Um so the first they have

46:03to provide this mitigation plan. Um one

46:06of the contents is they have to show uh

46:08the land use of every property within a

46:09mile. Um they have to show the

46:11prevailing winds, the temperatures,

46:12inversions and all things like that that

46:14might protect that might affect the

46:15sound traveling. Um, additionally on

46:18page

46:19on page one here, but I do have it

46:25broken down.

46:27There's a section called points.

46:42Okay. Points of compliance. Thank you.

46:44There we go. Uh it's still in four. It's

46:45on it's uh starts at D

46:48>> points of compliance.

46:51>> So uh there's there's there's four of

46:53these here. Um first one at least one in

46:57so that designate points of compliance

46:58at one at least in direction uh in which

47:00a protected property line so a sensitive

47:02user within 3,000 ft. Um there is no

47:04maximum the town may designate more if

47:06there seems to be problems with noise

47:08traveling and causing issues. Um on the

47:10facility property line facing each

47:12protected property and 25 ft from the

47:13exterior wall of the nearest dwelling or

47:15noise sensitive use. Um they can we can

47:18also set different locations as well of

47:20like areas that should be considered and

47:22measured um for these types of issues. I

47:25think just trying to do a band-aid of

47:28property line is easiest, but I don't

47:30know if it's it's it's appropriate in

47:33this text too. It also requires that

47:34they have that that constant monitoring

47:37system installed.

47:39um which would help alleviate some of

47:42the concerns I think with having staff

47:44to always be able to go out and respond

47:46and do the measurements perhaps they're

47:48not prepared or trained for where at

47:49least if you have the continuous

47:51monitoring is functioning properly you

47:53can send that information to a to an

47:54expert to review and they can provide a

47:57report maybe on an input on how to

47:59mitigate some of that stuff as well. Um,

48:02so being having to be able to really

48:03account for

48:05noise disturbances in a greater area

48:07outside of the property honestly sounds

48:08like is what you're concerned about,

48:10John. It's like

48:11>> Yeah. So, I think

48:12>> well, I mean,

48:14I guess my my

48:16what sort of hit me was uh you know, if

48:19if we're measuring the the the noise

48:21levels at the property line of the

48:24facility,

48:25>> uh

48:31seems like if we're trying to keep the

48:32noise down, if it's pretty far set back,

48:37noise can be pretty loud

48:40at the sight

48:41the building side,

48:42>> right?

48:43>> And

48:45that might create issues, other

48:48environmental issues, uh, particularly,

48:50you know, up in the air.

48:52>> Yeah. But also like where where the

48:54equipment is located is going to be a

48:55really big deal. It's much harder to to

48:58mitigate. I think rooftop equipment as

48:59well, uh, just given the way that the

49:01sand can travel and especially the the

49:03wind is less less to impede the wind up

49:04there. Um, you make great points and I

49:08think that's where this conversation is

49:10kind is kind of going like and because

49:13there's an there's not an understanding

49:14we we think we see the 60 dB pop up on

49:17the meter at the property line and we

49:19think it's good. We don't understand

49:20that how the the lower tonal noise is

49:22traveling and that goes much further and

49:24that's really impacting people's lives.

49:26Um, you can do that like kind of

49:28googling lawsuits and things like that

49:30related to this. A lot of times the ones

49:33that are currently I've seen in

49:34litigation are mostly related to um I'm

49:38gonna say shady um crypto money

49:40facilities because they they really just

49:42abuse their neighbors and they don't do

49:43a good job of being good neighbors. Um

49:45but I think you'll as these data centers

49:48get bigger and bigger we'll see

49:49different issues come up with them but

49:50in ways I will always be

49:52>> yeah

49:54so so for the sound generating the

49:56equipment right um the the data center

50:00itself and then u

50:03these uh generators diesel generators

50:06they often do the testing you know

50:09backup

50:10>> verification right

50:12>> are we seeing anything specific speak to

50:15um those generators specific rules for

50:19the sound because they they also under

50:22compliance basically oh you know

50:24generator is generator you know nobody

50:26cares right but we still have some

50:29regulations on

50:30>> there's there's language proposed

50:32language in this that would have them

50:33have to provide modeling for full

50:35buildout and full operation. So that

50:36means we want to see all of your blowers

50:39all of your coolers running at the same

50:41time at full full capacity. We want to

50:43see what noise is being generated from

50:44your generators if you have to run those

50:45at full capacity. Um that that's the

50:48intent here. That could change. Um

50:50you'll have input on that, but that was

50:52to capture that because you're right,

50:54they're they're going to be testing

50:55their generators every month um in

50:57different batches or pots probably

50:58depending on the size and then god for

51:01it'll happen. Curtailment will happen as

51:03we're trying to build generation and

51:04things like that. They're going to have

51:06to turn them on. And it may not be all

51:07these diesel generators. If there's

51:09opportunity for natural gas, there may

51:11be natural gas. Or if the the company

51:13can afford it, they may try and do some

51:15type of other um battery storage or um

51:19yeah, things like that.

51:33I I know the the color of the roofs or

51:38anything any restrictions on that you

51:41know we need a green roofs or anything

51:43like that it's a visual I know it's not

51:46a aostic related

51:48>> would you repeat that I'm sorry

51:49>> the roofs basically there are some

51:51regulations

51:53>> uh for roofs in general

51:54>> colors yeah

51:55>> um oh for colors

51:57Um, no, but we've we've talked about in

52:00planning in general, um, we're part of

52:03another subcommittee for for trees in

52:05urban heat island about um painting

52:08roofs or having different materials for

52:09roofs and stuff like that to help

52:10mitigate some urban heat island effects

52:11and things like that. Um, no. If there's

52:14anything specific that you think should

52:15be addressed for

52:17>> one of the policy other places I saw

52:19that I think that's one thing I can I

52:22can point to the reference that uh what

52:25I read.

52:26>> Oh, sure. Well, so cool roof and

52:29material restrictions regulations

52:32prohibit highly reflective material.

52:35>> Okay. Yeah.

52:36>> Okay. And that glare into surroundings.

52:40Okay. That's what they thought. So

52:42prevent those those uh you know

52:44reflective. Okay. And they also mandated

52:48a green roofs vegetation layers are

52:50highly reflective cool roofs. Okay.

52:53Combined with permeable asphalt to

52:56manage heavy thermal output and reduce

52:59storm water runoff.

53:01So

53:03So just I my reading and I thought you

53:06know that just

53:07>> Yeah. Oh does does it say um where's

53:09that from? Uh I think this is a part of

53:13the one thing and uh architectural urban

53:17design integration basically part of

53:19>> I mean I'm I love green walls and green

53:21roofs. Um I'm pro that uh I' I've got

53:25I've gotten so much push back about even

53:26putting solar on their roofs that I

53:29would have a hard time imagining they

53:30would put any type of living organic

53:32material in there.

53:33>> And I think a green roof does best when

53:35it's you don't have large structures

53:38blocking. you know, you want sort of a

53:40uniform vegetation and that needs to be

53:42kind of

53:42>> flat um to be able to maintain something

53:46like that.

53:47>> If we're talking about anything more

53:50than just a real small data set, I think

53:54you're you're going to have

53:56some issues with

54:02one of the things with that green roof

54:04you talking about wildlife stuff. being

54:08able to make use of that as well.

54:12I think they will have a hard time with

54:14with the noise coming out

54:17and the vibrations of the building

54:19itself.

54:21>> It' be really interesting to see how

54:22well the vegetation does on those roofs

54:24right there from all that all that

54:26onslaught of noise and heat that they

54:28like to eat. Curvy pavement is in the

54:32general EAB

54:35requirements or the you know our

54:37provisions that we can note

54:40they should do it but would they do it?

54:46>> I don't think anybody yet

54:48has agreed to that

54:50>> which is ridiculous because it's not

54:52complicated.

54:52>> No, it's it's not. and and we so our our

54:55firm sit at in Virginia. We have a lead

54:59platinum building and it used to be a

55:01really gross brown site and so we tore

55:05up we had to tear up half the parking

55:07lot anyway. It's all pvious. It collects

55:09all the water. They haven't had a single

55:11issue. And in fact, it's wonderful

55:13because I've been there. Every time I go

55:14to our office, it's rain and I can walk

55:16inside without stepping in pedals. My

55:18shoes don't get all wet.

55:19>> I don't know. There's like some weird

55:22stigma between like I have to maintain

55:24it. It's concrete exercise.

55:26>> You go down to the beach and I mean

55:28they've got impervious surf.

55:30>> Yeah.

55:31>> All over the place.

55:37>> I think it's becoming easier to clean.

55:39Like people are developing different

55:41machines that can make sure that they're

55:42Yeah.

55:43>> Well, it's not a new technology.

55:46So, at some point you just have to

55:48embrace it.

55:49>> Yeah.

55:50>> Yeah.

55:52So just want to walk through we'll walk

55:53through these just just briefly. Um so

55:57we kind of we talked about having tiers

55:58before the the tiers the the overall

56:01loads this may change and adjust as as

56:04we continue to learn more and maybe talk

56:05to some um more people in the industry.

56:07But just for the illustration purposes

56:09and get kind of moving forward we have

56:11them broken up into three tiers. Um we

56:14talked about before that maybe each of

56:15these tiers would trigger additional

56:17requirements on site. Um and so it's

56:19kind of how we move forward here.

56:22Um again, so we have a section no

56:24segmentation. So the tier is set by the

56:26total connected load at full buildout of

56:28all phases and all buildings under

56:30common ownership or control the same

56:31adjoining parcels. So trying to mitigate

56:34them building one thing and then coming

56:35in two years later without knowing

56:37what's happen. So well there will still

56:39be loopholes um but trying to mitigate

56:41that.

56:43Um one thing I I see popping up a little

56:45bit more now is like no waiverss by

56:47private agreement. So no agreement,

56:49easement or consent between the operator

56:51and any property owner, tenant or

56:53government raises a limit or shortens a

56:55setback in this article that may get

56:57removed by legal when they look at this.

56:59But essentially what it's saying is you

57:00can't buy an exception

57:06because there will probably be a

57:07different property owner at some point

57:08or different uses that want to go in.

57:10Yeah. Um this is

57:12>> are there any like uh for tier one tier

57:15two tier three the differences in the

57:18regulations whenever what we cannot you

57:21know allow what we cannot allow I don't

57:24know that

57:24>> yeah no no it's okay we haven't we

57:25haven't shared any of that language yet

57:27um we talked about doing that earlier on

57:29in a different meeting but there will be

57:30so like a tier like the smaller tiers

57:32are going to be kind of your smaller

57:33facilities so there'll be less

57:34generators less cooling towers on site

57:37and so they'll have some some basic

57:38standards like probably noise will a big

57:40one where they may still have to

57:41mitigate the noise on site, but maybe

57:43they can have smaller setbacks for for

57:45things like that or other site elements.

57:48Yeah. Which will change, but there's

57:49going to be a lot more um restrictions

57:51put on these higher tiers, these bigger

57:53facilities.

57:56So, these are some definitions. Um

58:00here

58:02we'll build out sound nighttime

58:04operations sensitive users operators

58:09properties

58:11explain the third octave band total

58:12sound

58:14uh the town acoustical consultant pops

58:16up a lot. Uh it's an independent

58:18acoustical engineer selected and

58:20retained by the town and paid from funds

58:22provided by the applicant or operator.

58:24uh the consultant may not have worked

58:25for the applicant or the operator an

58:27affiliate with it in the prior three

58:28years. Again, this one is probably going

58:30to get changed or amended. I don't know

58:32how easily it is uh in the current state

58:35of the field to find an engineer who

58:37hasn't worked for somebody.

58:39>> Um it's fairly easy.

58:41>> Oh, it is okay.

58:42>> Um there are firms that specialize only

58:45in doing the tax

58:47>> and stuff and the compliance part of it.

58:49Um, and just because to be fair, most

58:54people don't really care when they're

58:56designing. It's just one of those that

58:58it things get written and we assume

59:02we're good and then it's only when

59:04there's a problem afterwards. So, there

59:05are firms that will that can do it. Um,

59:09and I think there are probably enough

59:10that you could even just change some of

59:12the verbiage [clears throat]

59:14to where you have maybe you have

59:16agreements with multiples

59:18>> and so that way it's a oh well you

59:20worked with this one but we have two

59:22more we can pick from and that gives you

59:24a little bit of you know

59:26>> Yes. because I don't think I think a lot

59:28of the data center too the the design

59:32it's not coming from local engineering.

59:34It's coming nationally. So, they're

59:36going to either have someone on their

59:38staff or they're going to have a

59:39national firm they're working with. So,

59:42small businesses and places around

59:44Raleigh that do it would probably love

59:47to be the consultant and have projects

59:48that they can pick up.

59:50>> That's good. Yeah, I do appreciate the

59:51idea of having like a perhaps a

59:53revolving list or something there

59:54because yeah, different parties. Yeah.

59:58>> Um, under noise sensitive use, I see

1:00:00that at least on the paper version, it

1:00:02has conservation area in brackets.

1:00:05>> Oh, um, anything in a bracket is

1:00:08probably stuff that's open to change or

1:00:10an engine. So conservation area um that

1:00:13one I want to talk about more if it's

1:00:15going to be UDO specific resource

1:00:17conservation areas or if it's going to

1:00:19be more encompassing of like habitat

1:00:20recognized habitat or things like that.

1:00:22So right now it's just conservation area

1:00:24but it may change to be something more

1:00:25specific.

1:00:36So we talked about in the past uh

1:00:38presentations about doing different

1:00:40noise studies and things like that uh

1:00:42like uh premodeling kind of getting idea

1:00:44of what the ambient noise is or current

1:00:46noise is on the site and understanding

1:00:48how the use is going to impact that with

1:00:49its additional noise. Um that's still

1:00:52something that I think we should retain

1:00:53and have. The only thing that's changed

1:00:55here is instead of requiring the post

1:00:58construction study, you have the

1:01:00continuous study that goes on from the

1:01:02from the outgoing. So you're just

1:01:04constantly collecting data and if

1:01:05there's anything you have the ability to

1:01:06amend it. Uh this might be a cost

1:01:08barrier for some. I don't know what the

1:01:10cost is unfortunately of it. But um it's

1:01:12for smaller ranges, but they may not

1:01:14need as much of it as say a larger site

1:01:16that has to put um meters all over the

1:01:19place in different areas. So

1:01:21>> well, I think there needs to be

1:01:22continuous I I think that's a lot of

1:01:25people's opinion for for these larger

1:01:27facilities though.

1:01:39>> So I just wanted So the things in

1:01:41brackets may change.

1:01:43>> Things in brackets are probably going to

1:01:46be adjusted just because you'll see some

1:01:47of these like um they have like

1:01:50distances like 3,000 ft or something

1:01:52like that which is probably going to be

1:01:54changed or there'll be like u like size

1:01:56limitations and things like that that

1:01:58there will just have probably be changed

1:01:59through conversations with one you you

1:02:01guys yourself and then with other

1:02:03departments and other experts as well.

1:02:05It's just areas where we should have

1:02:06discussion. Yeah. So if you see

1:02:09something in a bracket that you're

1:02:10curious about, let's talk about it

1:02:11because that's why we're here. Yeah.

1:02:13>> Yeah.

1:02:13>> Um and so then there will be a a final

1:02:17version that where where those numbers

1:02:20are fixed. Oh, you you will have a Yeah,

1:02:23you guys will

1:02:24>> Okay. And then Okay.

1:02:25>> Yeah, this is this is a this is a first

1:02:26look at this. Um there was a really good

1:02:29uh recommendation from one of the

1:02:31residents that given we have two members

1:02:33that are going to be um off the board in

1:02:36January that getting any type of

1:02:38language in front of you, even if it's

1:02:40early draft language, would be

1:02:41beneficial. Um and so that was the

1:02:43intent of this is to is to start working

1:02:45on that, getting your input now. Um and

1:02:47then moving moving forward. Of course,

1:02:49we do have set aside time to do just

1:02:51drafting, but in case anything comes up

1:02:53and we don't want to miss the

1:02:55opportunity to talk to you.

1:03:03Does anyone have any um I know there's a

1:03:06lot to look at there. any main any big

1:03:09concerns when it comes to noise that you

1:03:12could talk about that maybe is addressed

1:03:13in there or not addressed in there

1:03:17that come to mind.

1:03:38Number eight, noise mitigation. Evidence

1:03:41of a reasonable expectation.

1:03:47That doesn't seem very

1:03:50>> what number.

1:03:51>> Um, let's see.

1:03:54>> C8. I'm sorry. C8.

1:03:56>> What section?

1:03:57>> Four.

1:04:02What is what is ev what what would

1:04:05evidence of a reasonable expectation be?

1:04:11Um

1:04:15I think this would be every intent of

1:04:18like going through everything that's

1:04:20required in section six and the other

1:04:21sections and showing that you have

1:04:22followed it to the the rule itself that

1:04:25you provided all the measurements and

1:04:27things like that. Um, I think that's

1:04:29kind of what we're looking at. It's like

1:04:30the intent. It's like I I don't think

1:04:32there's an intent here how it's written

1:04:34to provide them anything other than like

1:04:36a margin of like the three decibels,

1:04:37which is like below it at nine. Um, it

1:04:40wouldn't be like you tried your hardest

1:04:41to prove that you could do it, but you

1:04:43can't get below 10 dB of over the limit.

1:04:45That's not the intent. I think it's

1:04:47really kind of kind of emphasize and

1:04:48appreciate number nine a bit more that

1:04:50you made like you're three over. We

1:04:53understand that. But you made every

1:04:54attempt to kind of meet the intent and

1:04:55there is that that variation allowed.

1:04:59>> That language can change. Absolutely.

1:05:09>> We've got protected property

1:05:12>> in the definitions.

1:05:16I'll scroll.

1:05:19>> Where did the sound limit come from in

1:05:21section six?

1:05:23sound limits [clears throat] were taken

1:05:24from multiple they were they were

1:05:26influenced by multiple sources. They

1:05:27were taken from um Prince William

1:05:30County's new sound ordinance. They were

1:05:32taken from the South Carolina proposed

1:05:34bill. They were taking it from the

1:05:35Colorado oil and gas um noise ordinance

1:05:38they have specifically for that. Um some

1:05:40of them in the table that you'll see the

1:05:42day and nighttime um or the uh C

1:05:46weighted decibb they're in brackets at

1:05:4860. I think this number this number is

1:05:50definitely going to change and be

1:05:51varied. I just need to speak to someone

1:05:52who has a bit more expertise on kind of

1:05:54where that should be in that line

1:05:55because at this moment in time I I don't

1:05:56know exactly how that should be aligned.

1:05:59My concern is that some of these are

1:06:01real high and there is a stark

1:06:04difference between

1:06:07designing for equipment, industrial

1:06:10equipment that is not continuous versus

1:06:13a continuous noise of something at a

1:06:15data center because even industrial

1:06:17equipment there are very few things that

1:06:20are continuous and the impact of that

1:06:24noise and you know if you were to say

1:06:27hey our data center is going to be

1:06:28industrial, it can be at 80 all day

1:06:31long, 247.

1:06:34That impacts your hearing significantly

1:06:36more than if it was 80 and it happened

1:06:39over the course of an hour. And so those

1:06:41numbers

1:06:43are high. And as an engineer that has

1:06:46had people complain about chillers

1:06:50at a school on adjacent property and we

1:06:52went and measured and it was 50. I can

1:06:56only imagine if we have a data center

1:06:58with

1:07:0015 20 sitting there how well that's

1:07:03going to be for everyone all the time.

1:07:06>> So the the the dec table table table one

1:07:09uh in section six the that's for the

1:07:11receiving property. So that would be so

1:07:14like an industrial site next to another

1:07:15industrial site. So that still might be

1:07:17high and that's fair. Um but it wouldn't

1:07:19it wouldn't specifically be like they'd

1:07:20be allowed to do 80 next to a school or

1:07:22anything like that. That would be the

1:07:23more protected user which would be the

1:07:2455.

1:07:25>> Yeah.

1:07:27>> Well,

1:07:29I saw something from from Solar City who

1:07:32got some some stuff in which I was

1:07:34shocked to see

1:07:37pleasantly shocked. Uh their commercial

1:07:39industrial limits. They've got a

1:07:42different

1:07:44different category. They got 7 a.m. to

1:07:4610 p.m. in industrial. They got 65 dBA.

1:07:50>> Mhm.

1:07:51>> 70 DBC

1:07:54and then it's lower for, you know, 10

1:07:57p.m. to 7 a.m.

1:07:58>> Yeah.

1:08:03Even even being industrial, I think

1:08:05that's a little high.

1:08:06>> Sure. No, I I think that's fair.

1:08:13>> So So testing

1:08:16u the people nearby let's say today

1:08:22there is no as usual running and uh they

1:08:26want to test tomorrow

1:08:28the neighbor are they going to see

1:08:30increased in a sound because of

1:08:32generators

1:08:35uh do they is that a noticeable for them

1:08:37or do we need to inform the residents

1:08:40hey we are testing tomorrow you will see

1:08:42a little more noise them what is the

1:08:45operational data center operational

1:08:47sound is.

1:08:49I think

1:08:51should we inform them you know in

1:08:53advance like okay we will be testing on

1:08:56this day. Um there there is language in

1:08:59here about having to inform the town

1:09:01whenever you have to use your generators

1:09:03for something other than testing other

1:09:05than emergency situations and you have

1:09:07to inform them of what the emergency

1:09:08situation is to kind of prevent that. Um

1:09:11I think what happens and I don't I don't

1:09:13know how the would do this. I see your

1:09:15point. Um, we wouldn't be able to reach

1:09:17out to every property owner nearby and

1:09:19let them know that they're going to be

1:09:20testing their generators at a certain

1:09:22time. Just like the town doesn't reach

1:09:24out to anyone when the Sharon Harris

1:09:25alarm went off today. I mean, we might

1:09:27make a a Facebook post so no one gets

1:09:29scared, but

1:09:30>> Sharon Harris puts out

1:09:31>> they put out they put out. Yeah. So, it'

1:09:33be the property owner or the user, I

1:09:35think, should be a good neighbor and let

1:09:36people know. They should have the

1:09:38obligation to it shouldn't be up to the

1:09:40town to tell them when when they're

1:09:42going to be tested.

1:09:43>> It should be up to the the

1:09:46>> and testing generators has to happen on

1:09:48a regular cycle and so it should be

1:09:50similar to the Harris testing where it's

1:09:53a the third Wednesday of the month at

1:09:56this time we're going to do it you know

1:09:59unless there's some random active nature

1:10:02or something we can't test.

1:10:08But the the town will be informed about

1:10:11that.

1:10:12>> So we have it for for Yeah,

1:10:14>> I think I saw somewhere. But I'm I'm

1:10:16worried about uh the residents if they

1:10:19get or not.

1:10:22>> Yeah, they'll be there'll be set aside

1:10:24timing for when they can run them too.

1:10:26So during the day so they can't run them

1:10:27at night.

1:10:27>> Yeah, working days. I think they were

1:10:29talking a nonh holidays

1:10:33town holidays.

1:10:45Is there a proposal for a

1:10:49how far a detention center needed to be

1:10:54from a sensitive property?

1:10:57>> I think I think it landed on

1:11:01I don't remember if it was 1,000 or 1300

1:11:03ft. It was it was something in that

1:11:05line. The planning board amended it to

1:11:07to increase it.

1:11:08>> Okay.

1:11:08>> Um I I can look it up. I don't have it.

1:11:10>> I was just curious how that compares to

1:11:12like the minimum setbacks here in

1:11:13section 7.

1:11:21>> And these are in brackets again. So I

1:11:23think I think there there's room to have

1:11:24discussion like you know um that the 500

1:11:29ft for the tier one for like this is

1:11:31like a very small independent data

1:11:33center not necessarily like we talked

1:11:35about like the um internal or um

1:11:38enterprise data centers themselves that

1:11:40are part of another use. So this this is

1:11:43kind of the 1010 here is for that tier

1:11:44one to be kind of like we're building a

1:11:46very small data center focused um

1:11:49development

1:11:56The goal the goal is um to in previous

1:11:59sections like do the surveys and the the

1:12:01modeling out to a greater distance like

1:12:03we saw 3,000 ft to to understand the

1:12:05land uses around it to where the

1:12:07receptive users are. But then you can

1:12:08see the setback is is only the highest

1:12:10for the highest one was 1500 feet. Um so

1:12:13not not even it's only half of what that

1:12:14was. Um but you know that's that's just

1:12:17kind of a starting point where I think

1:12:21um where I've heard some people talk

1:12:22about uh the 500 not not quite being

1:12:25enough um and thousand since we don't

1:12:28have any on site. Let's let's go a

1:12:30little further.

1:12:46This train would probably exceed some of

1:12:48the standards that

1:12:51>> but it's a short burst,

1:12:52>> right? Yeah.

1:12:53>> Yeah. This would be akin to like putting

1:12:56grew up in a mil town with

1:12:58>> Yeah.

1:12:58>> They ran 247.

1:13:00>> Yeah.

1:13:02>> Seven miles from a smelting and that was

1:13:06247 too.

1:13:09>> I visited that that time often.

1:13:12I've experienced the noise.

1:13:20Growing up

1:13:27the low hum of that smelting plant you

1:13:30could

1:13:32it was it was

1:13:34I don't know how far away you could hear

1:13:36but

1:13:38it was pretty constant.

1:13:43Did did we do we have any data centers

1:13:46nearby and did we visit any time or the

1:13:50environment board or

1:13:52>> the environment board hasn't done any

1:13:53kind of trip or anything uh together

1:13:55they may have gone independently I think

1:13:56Melissa may have visited one on our

1:13:58travels um she could probably talk to

1:14:00you about it um but we haven't done any

1:14:01kind of major trips or anything to to

1:14:03one data centers um to really get a feel

1:14:06for we might have to go kind of far um

1:14:08so I'm not sure what the logistics with

1:14:10that would be like but um if you're

1:14:12traveling, I can try and find your data

1:14:14centers and I can uh you can add them to

1:14:16your stops on your Google Maps.

1:14:18>> Yeah.

1:14:18>> Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:19>> Yeah. Um there's there's nothing of of

1:14:22real substantial size nearby locally

1:14:25nearby. Um but there's there's some

1:14:29in Charlotte and the larger ones.

1:14:32>> Statesville. Yeah. And then um

1:14:37>> there's the maiden facility. Apple

1:14:39facility is really big. Um but there's

1:14:40nothing out there but cows already. So

1:14:42that's not

1:14:43>> I have a friend who designed some for

1:14:45Google after

1:14:47>> yeah be helpful.

1:14:52>> I noticed there was something in the

1:14:54room sort of reminded me of this about

1:14:56vibration is do data centers

1:15:01generally produce

1:15:04vibration like the

1:15:06it's not like a train per se but there

1:15:08is there is vibration generated from the

1:15:10movement of the fans and the generators

1:15:12are running. There's there's vibration

1:15:13generated from that for sure. Yeah. So,

1:15:15there could be potential vibration.

1:15:17That's where having the distance kind of

1:15:19helps with that. But, um

1:15:21>> the equipment will have to have and it's

1:15:24something that can be determined, but

1:15:28you can do vibration separation for all

1:15:32the equipment.

1:15:34fairly complicated slash expensive, but

1:15:36it, you know, especially the outdoor

1:15:38equipment because it's all sitting on

1:15:39concrete pad and that vibration when you

1:15:42add the number of it.

1:15:44>> Yeah. And and so there's you can

1:15:47basically have them put a springloaded

1:15:51concrete pad on top of the pad

1:15:54>> like an elevated platform made of

1:15:55materials to help mitate that.

1:15:57>> And does vibration typically dissipate

1:16:01rather quickly or does it soils or

1:16:05>> it usually is pretty quick

1:16:07>> and so and and like we'll do it for all

1:16:10the equipment in building because they

1:16:12travel because it's hard surfaces but

1:16:14with the soil outside it should be

1:16:16pretty

1:16:17>> okay

1:16:18>> stay right in there but it just again

1:16:19it's a lot of equipment and when you get

1:16:21everything vibrating if you were to all

1:16:23be on the same frequency at the same

1:16:25time the harmonics of it will make the

1:16:27impact bigger

1:16:28>> right so I noticed that it does say a

1:16:30data center facility shall not cause

1:16:33groundborn vibration that a person can

1:16:35perceive without instruments at any

1:16:37point on another property.

1:16:39>> They probably

1:16:40>> okay.

1:16:43>> Okay.

1:16:44>> Yeah, that's what

1:16:45>> that that was added out of concern from

1:16:47residents.

1:16:48>> And so if somebody was like, well, I can

1:16:50feel vibration that would then get

1:16:52looped into this the complaint system

1:16:54and mandatorily tested. Okay.

1:17:16So anytime if they change the equipment

1:17:20for a maintenance

1:17:23um do we need to still test from a

1:17:26costic uh you know ranges perspective

1:17:28from a compliance perspective? So that's

1:17:31that's also the benefit of having the

1:17:33continuous monitoring is that that the

1:17:35change of equipment would still be

1:17:37captured through that and we would be

1:17:38able to see if there's any variation in

1:17:40the noise being produced and whether

1:17:42they're still in compliance or whether

1:17:43they're exceeding that

1:17:46because that that's a great point and

1:17:47that's where I've gone back and forth on

1:17:49trying to figure out the best path

1:17:51forward for measuring is equipment is

1:17:53going to change without a doubt. It'll

1:17:55make it maybe more efficient, it'll be

1:17:56better, it'll be quieter, but it it may

1:17:58not it may be worse equipment or

1:18:00different equipment that has different

1:18:02properties. Um, and so if we

1:18:04overregulate exactly the type of

1:18:07enclosure or mechanical, we're going to

1:18:09miss something.

1:18:12>> Someone forwarded an article for the

1:18:15subcommittee on the new technology of

1:18:18cooling.

1:18:20Well, and the problem is is creating

1:18:23specifications, you end up soul sourcing

1:18:27technology

1:18:29and it

1:18:31>> ethically you shouldn't be doing that

1:18:33from an engineering standpoint.

1:18:35Engineers are going to fight you on

1:18:36that. Developers are going to fight you

1:18:38on it. So you just you can you we

1:18:41shouldn't say you have to use a certain

1:18:43technology. We could just establish

1:18:45these are the baseline efficienc.

1:18:51>> Yeah.

1:18:53>> Well, that's your guys's job. [laughter]

1:19:04>> Have we looked at Ashray standard 90.4?

1:19:09>> No, because I do not have access to the

1:19:12manual. I cannot I cannot get access to

1:19:15it.

1:19:15>> Would you like me to purchase it?

1:19:18>> Oh, I I don't want anyone to purchase

1:19:20anything, but

1:19:22>> not a deal. Um,

1:19:24>> well, we have a tiny bit of money left

1:19:26in the budget.

1:19:27>> Let me I let me reach out. I I

1:19:29>> if we if we need to purchase it, it's

1:19:30$178.

1:19:33Um, but I my thought is that

1:19:37that would probably be a fabulous

1:19:40>> Absolutely. this is our baseline and

1:19:43then we can decide what need to be above

1:19:45it especially because smarter people

1:19:47than all of us have done all that

1:19:49research and written it. I agree 100%

1:19:51and I have spent a lot of time trying to

1:19:53find um

1:19:54>> there will be no free copy of it

1:19:55actually very protective of their PDF.

1:19:58>> There is there is absolutely not a free

1:19:59copy of it. I I I can confirm.

1:20:02>> Yes.

1:20:03>> They also have a very strict rule that

1:20:05their stuff cannot be um used by AI. So

1:20:08therefore it can't be distributed that

1:20:10way either.

1:20:11>> Okay, that's good to know.

1:20:12>> And so it is illegal to upload any of

1:20:14their documentation to AI.

1:20:16If the board feels like having that

1:20:18material would be useful, I am happy to

1:20:20go to other people and and recommend

1:20:22that we we get that. I would I would

1:20:23like to have it. I just

1:20:24>> I think that would be

1:20:26>> I would recommend it and I am I am

1:20:28rowing when we get it to read it and

1:20:30make a presentation about it.

1:20:33>> That's wonderful. Thank you.

1:20:34>> I would recommend it.

1:20:36>> Absolutely.

1:20:37>> Try to get it.

1:20:39>> So if you don't know 90.4 Four is ashray

1:20:44standard for data center efficiencies.

1:20:47It is an offshoot of ashray 90.1 which

1:20:51is commercial building standard

1:20:52efficiency which is written to be used

1:20:56as a code. So um like North Carolina

1:20:59uses the international um energy code I

1:21:04can't think but the our energy code is

1:21:06IEC 2015. Um and so that says that you

1:21:10can use ashray 90.120.

1:21:13So it's backdated a little bit. Um and

1:21:16so Ashray decided that we needed a

1:21:19standard that's just data centers. So,

1:21:21they wrote one all about energy

1:21:23efficiencies and based off of where

1:21:26technology is, what they think the like

1:21:28minimum efficiency for everything should

1:21:31be. I haven't dug into it too much. Um,

1:21:33but usually there is some sound related

1:21:37stuff into it, but it'll deal with

1:21:39water, electricity, all equipment

1:21:41efficiencies, set points, all sorts of

1:21:44stuff. and they they specifically have

1:21:46recommendations just for HVX systems and

1:21:48cooling systems and like separately from

1:21:50data centers as well, which would be be

1:21:51great to actually have to. Um, so yeah,

1:21:54I will I will I hear your your input and

1:21:57I will take this to someone above me and

1:21:58let them know that we are interested in

1:22:00having access. Maybe maybe someone in a

1:22:01different department has access they

1:22:03could allow me to read their copy or

1:22:05something for not in their presence so

1:22:08it's not stealing [laughter] in their

1:22:10presence.

1:22:23So would all of this So we heard a

1:22:26little bit about people generating their

1:22:28own electricity prior getting connected

1:22:30to the grid. Um

1:22:34>> if that in fact happens, would all of

1:22:36this apply to that equipment?

1:22:38>> It it would all apply.

1:22:40>> Okay.

1:22:40>> Because it is measuring the sound for

1:22:41the site.

1:22:45I thought it was a 50 mega megawatt unit

1:22:49greater than 50 or more, right? They

1:22:51generate their own

1:22:54>> they generate their own the power. Um

1:22:58so they I'm not sure

1:23:01have to have supplemental sources.

1:23:03>> Yeah, especially if they're waiting on

1:23:05on new generation to come online from

1:23:07Duke. Some places are like bringing in

1:23:09generators or they're bringing in or

1:23:11connecting to gas lines or something

1:23:12else to kind of get going.

1:23:14>> Um, we heard from I mean I sound like

1:23:17that there was no movement on it, but at

1:23:19one point someone was talking about the

1:23:21small modular nuclear reactors like

1:23:23there's just a rush. They're trying to

1:23:25move as fast as they can and they don't

1:23:26want to wait 10 years in the queue.

1:23:29>> Yeah. I mean that's that's what they're

1:23:31>> that's the bottleneck.

1:24:03So during the humidity, right, during

1:24:06the humidity, the sound will be more. Is

1:24:08that what it says? How the weather

1:24:10changes the sound?

1:24:12>> That changes how the sound moves through

1:24:13the air, whether the temperature and the

1:24:15relative humidity. I I can't go explain

1:24:17it in great detail. Maybe our engineer

1:24:19could do it a little better than I can,

1:24:21but essentially it will affect the sound

1:24:22like whether where it where it's

1:24:23sitting, how far it travels and things

1:24:25like that as well.

1:24:27>> There there'll be a document included um

1:24:29that you guys will get a link to after

1:24:31this that you can read more into it. Um

1:24:33I will just publicly admit that

1:24:36>> waves travel differently in air than it

1:24:38does in water

1:24:40and that's that's the more humidity the

1:24:43starting to get water. Got it.

1:24:59and I apologize I couldn't have a an

1:25:02expert here to speak to you. Uh the the

1:25:04ones I've been I've been trying to use

1:25:05as a source were we're unfortunately not

1:25:07open to to coming in and speaking um

1:25:09from a professional standpoint. But um

1:25:12if at some point we need to reach out to

1:25:15someone maybe just there some additional

1:25:17questions or something like that, I'm

1:25:18I'm always happy to reach out to other

1:25:20people and see if we can get stuff done.

1:25:22And um just being respectful of

1:25:24everyone's time. If if if this is

1:25:26working for y'all and you're enjoying

1:25:27being able to ask questions as we read

1:25:29through this, that's wonderful. I'm

1:25:30happy to be here. If any of you would

1:25:32feel it'd be better to read this and

1:25:34come up with questions separately on

1:25:35your own, I that's fine as well. I just

1:25:38let me know what you're most comfortable

1:25:40with.

1:25:40>> Well, I mean, I think it's helpful to go

1:25:42over it, but absolutely suspect once I

1:25:46actually read it. I'm happy to

1:25:48>> Oh, yeah.

1:25:49>> Oh, yeah.

1:25:50>> I know. Sometimes when I'm in a meeting,

1:25:51I I'm like over I'm either very present

1:25:54or I'm very into the document.

1:25:56>> Yeah.

1:25:57>> So, is there a target date to complete

1:26:00and all that?

1:26:01>> So, we do have target dates um set on

1:26:03the calendar on the website. Um so, so

1:26:05we're ahead of that right now. This is

1:26:07this is kind of trying to get a little

1:26:08bit ahead of that. So, you have time to

1:26:10review this and provide input. Um, yeah,

1:26:13we're just trying to to move a little

1:26:14quicker knowing that we have two members

1:26:16that that are going to be leaving.

1:26:18>> I'll go through them.

1:26:24>> And this is electronically sent, right?

1:26:27>> It'll be electronic.

1:26:28>> It will be. Okay.

1:26:30>> Um, and just and just for you you

1:26:32members of the board, I'm happy to share

1:26:34a word document so you can make comments

1:26:35and notes if that's easier. The only

1:26:37thing we ask is that you don't do it

1:26:38collectively outside of the meeting

1:26:40because there's there's open meeting

1:26:41laws that we have to abide by

1:26:53and I noticed something about

1:26:55decommissioning. Um

1:26:58is that sort of just like there's no

1:27:01decommissioning plan that's going to be

1:27:02required. is just sort of if and when

1:27:04that happens, will there be any

1:27:07expectation expectations laid out for

1:27:10that?

1:27:10>> The decommissioning plan? Yeah. Like an

1:27:12inventory of essentially everything on

1:27:14site, how they plan to to to remove or

1:27:16mitigate the hazardous materials and

1:27:18things like that. Yeah. It'll be a whole

1:27:19thing

1:27:19>> that will be will that be required as

1:27:21part of like

1:27:22>> not Yes. As part of the as part of the

1:27:24ordinance or as probably a zoning

1:27:26condition.

1:27:26>> Okay.

1:27:26>> For reszonings. Yeah.

1:27:28>> Okay.

1:27:29And then at the the very end um of the

1:27:32of the document, you'll have like uh

1:27:34model zoning conditions. These are just

1:27:36some things that we could consider.

1:27:38Everything obviously in the ordinance

1:27:40itself that doesn't make it or we can't

1:27:42enforce through the ordinance could be a

1:27:43zoning condition if they agree to it. Um

1:27:46I could see there also being the

1:27:47opportunity to have probably development

1:27:49agreements for large data centers or

1:27:51things like that where there is there

1:27:53opportunities to partner with the town.

1:27:55Um so there will be some adjustment

1:27:57there as well.

1:28:04There was um in the South Carolina

1:28:07proposed bill there was uh the penalties

1:28:10were very high and I I know a lot of

1:28:12people would be very interested in that.

1:28:14Um, I removed the totals from your draft

1:28:17to be decided um until I can get legal's

1:28:20input on what's legal in North Carolina

1:28:22to be. But in South Carolina, the

1:28:24proposed bill was like started at

1:28:26$10,000 and went up to $35,000 a day for

1:28:30violations. So, it's much higher than

1:28:33usually your ordinance violations

1:28:38>> day.

1:28:41Sadly though, that's probably not

1:28:44actually that much money compared to the

1:28:46sale that we

1:28:47>> to be fair if you don't finish projects

1:28:50on time your daily penalty can be very

1:28:54high too. So [clears throat] it's just

1:28:56an incentive to actually spend the money

1:28:58and get things

1:29:00good for South Carolina.

1:29:02>> I I don't think it's passed yet, but it

1:29:04was introduced. Well, considering they

1:29:06still don't have an energy code that's

1:29:08been written in the past 20 years, I'm

1:29:11not

1:29:12>> I appreciate the dreamers like me.

1:29:14[laughter]

1:29:26>> Is there a general practice uh how they

1:29:28test frequent how frequently they test

1:29:32>> uh broken down in here? There are

1:29:37So there we have listed commissioning

1:29:39test. So before they even get their

1:29:41their CO, there's follow-up test and

1:29:45there's a continuous monitoring. Um they

1:29:49report any outages for the monitoring.

1:29:51There's quarterly surveys and then there

1:29:54there's also public reporting. So this

1:29:56states that the town shall post

1:29:57monitoring data and surveys results. So

1:30:00um it says results monthly. So

1:30:01essentially the goal here would be

1:30:03probably have a we have a website where

1:30:04you can go check out if if we move

1:30:06forward with that you check out sounds

1:30:08see what's going on uh and then keeping

1:30:11records and things like that.

1:30:15>> You say uh the operator shall keep

1:30:18equipment maintenance records

1:30:21for five years. That

1:30:25something y'all typically do?

1:30:27>> No, this is me being a little grabby

1:30:30with information.

1:30:31>> I mean, I understand the sound data. I

1:30:35got that. I'm just

1:30:36>> Well, they should have maintenance

1:30:37records because it's proof that they're

1:30:38actually keeping it up and what will

1:30:41happen on equipment if you don't

1:30:43maintain it, then now your compressors

1:30:45start doing weird wonky things and the

1:30:47sound they make is different and crazy.

1:30:49And at least if you have the data to

1:30:51say, well, you haven't maintained it,

1:30:53you have to fix it. Always good to know.

1:30:56>> I don't know. you might have more

1:30:58understanding this is are these

1:30:59equipment always bought outright or are

1:31:01they they financed or they leased or

1:31:03anything? Is there a reason that they

1:31:04would have to provide a maintenance

1:31:06record for that at all?

1:31:07>> No. Um but they should have a

1:31:11ease of warranty they should have that

1:31:13they're they're maintaining it. Um, and

1:31:16a lot, especially these data centers,

1:31:18um, I don't know if because they're

1:31:21staffed so lightly, I don't know if they

1:31:24actually will have someone on staff

1:31:26doing maintenance or if it's going to be

1:31:28contracted out.

1:31:29>> And so then they will have records

1:31:32because that's how they're going to

1:31:33build them. And so that really

1:31:36>> anybody who's running any type of

1:31:38facility should keep their maintenance

1:31:41records for a minimum of five years.

1:31:42>> I'm not saying they should they should

1:31:44already I'm just

1:31:45>> and and it should just

1:31:47>> Yeah, it should be an easy thing to have

1:31:49access to, especially now, you know,

1:31:51most people are keeping track of this

1:31:53stuff online and using some sort of free

1:31:56or extremely cheap software to just know

1:31:58who's doing what when.

1:32:00>> I think the intent was to if if there is

1:32:03something going wrong and they're like,

1:32:04we we haven't changed our operation at

1:32:06all. We're not sure why we're not

1:32:07meeting these levels. You know, we see

1:32:09like, okay, well, what's coming we think

1:32:11it's coming from this. Let's look at the

1:32:13maintenance. Oh, done maintenance on

1:32:14this.

1:32:34>> They don't like this mandatory trigger

1:32:37number one.

1:32:42Yeah, that that number is in brackets.

1:32:47>> So the

1:32:51>> that that's just a

1:32:54number.

1:32:55>> I can see somebody or a group or

1:32:57neighborhood playing that.

1:33:00>> Yeah, I I think other parties will read

1:33:03number two and just think we don't need

1:33:06>> Yeah.

1:33:07>> number one. Earlier you mentioned civil

1:33:10penalties for a violation in Charlotte

1:33:14or somewhere $35,000 per day. Is that

1:33:17what

1:33:18>> South Carolina proposed a bill that

1:33:20would uh have essentially fees that were

1:33:2410,000 20,000 and $30,000?

1:33:27>> We have not determined that one.

1:33:29>> We have not. We have to our legal

1:33:31department will have to confer what we

1:33:32are legally allowed to what the maximum

1:33:34is for that because right now the

1:33:38160

1:33:40160b I think it said is like

1:33:44if you don't have it stated in your

1:33:45ordinance it's like $50 a day. You can

1:33:48do a maximum of 500 for Yeah, it's it's

1:33:51very low.

1:33:52>> Very low. And it may have to be low and

1:33:54then that will remove a lot of teeth for

1:33:57enforcement but being able to monitor it

1:34:00will still help.

1:34:01>> That wouldn't show up on

1:34:04>> No. $50. No.

1:34:08So I see that there's a curtailment

1:34:10protocol thing for sound. Do you

1:34:14anticipate there being some kind of

1:34:16curtailment thing if there were large

1:34:18water user

1:34:21and and let's just say that there's an

1:34:24extreme drought and and we're getting

1:34:25down to a point where it's

1:34:28people having water versus data center.

1:34:30>> Oh, sure. Um we talked we we briefly

1:34:33talked about that with Jonathan Jacobs.

1:34:36We'll have to probably revisit that with

1:34:37him to see what he can do as part of I

1:34:39think it was a

1:34:41was it an it was a certain type of

1:34:43permit that they have to get through him

1:34:44where he can have different conditions

1:34:46part of that permit. It would probably

1:34:48be something we couldn't codify itself.

1:34:52>> That probably would be helpful to have

1:34:56>> in in this

1:34:58in the ordinance.

1:34:59>> Oh, I I'll have I'd have to check with

1:35:01him to see if it's

1:35:03>> possible.

1:35:07their permits and agreements are are

1:35:08also fighting in a different way. So

1:35:24is there a is there anticipation that uh

1:35:26how many data centers

1:35:30we might be looking in it?

1:35:32>> No. Um there's not I I I'm also not

1:35:36privy to conversations with economic

1:35:39development at this time. So I don't

1:35:40know if they're talking to anyone there.

1:35:42The one site where the original

1:35:45developer was looking at was pretty

1:35:48ideal from a data center perspective

1:35:50just given its proximity to like high

1:35:52voltage lines and the water reclamation

1:35:54facility nearby. Um,

1:35:58given the kind of conversations that

1:35:59this board has had in the past about

1:36:01having like very large minimum area

1:36:03sizes and things like that, it kind of

1:36:05limits the possibility of where data

1:36:07centers could potentially go. Um, but

1:36:10there's there's probably areas that

1:36:12still exist in Apex, but we're running

1:36:14out of area. We're running out of room

1:36:15for like a large facility.

1:36:23>> And I still think you wouldn't want

1:36:25guns.

1:36:27>> [laughter]

1:36:28>> Oh, for the hunting.

1:36:29>> Yeah, the game land. Yeah, that's

1:36:31adjacent to it. Sure.

1:36:56So, one section in the enforcement which

1:36:58I I'm not sure how well received it will

1:37:02be is e um later development is

1:37:05protected. Typically, this is not the

1:37:07case. meaning that if you build a home

1:37:09or subdivision next to one of these

1:37:11facilities, it's kind of like you should

1:37:13have known better. Um, this isn't here

1:37:17just as kind of a a first step that we

1:37:20want to protect everyone as much as

1:37:21possible, but with the understanding

1:37:22that this may be something that is also

1:37:25altered or removed as well. But,

1:37:29you know, we're talking about how we

1:37:30want to see our community develop and

1:37:31things like that, maybe we do want to

1:37:33have protections for future development.

1:37:38I would say so because I mean that sort

1:37:40of triggers you know down the road

1:37:42probably land use changes.

1:37:45>> It does. Yeah. You end up usually like

1:37:46you have a user adjacent or even

1:37:48sometimes across the street and it's

1:37:50kind of a undesired use or something and

1:37:53the property across the way can't get

1:37:54developed the way it was intended to and

1:37:56so someone will come in eventually and

1:37:57resone it to probably industrial as well

1:37:59and

1:38:00>> and then you're kind of inching forward.

1:38:02>> Exactly. Yeah.

1:38:15So next steps will be what?

1:38:19>> So next steps um you will kindly review

1:38:23and provide me feedback on that

1:38:25information. And um we will proceed.

1:38:26We'll have um we'll have our next

1:38:28neighbor our next resident call meeting

1:38:30uh next week on the 14th where I'll

1:38:32gather input and feedback from the

1:38:33residents and provide that to you later

1:38:35on. Um and then from there we will

1:38:38prepare for next month's uh meeting

1:38:40which will be public safety uh fire and

1:38:42police come and give a presentation. Um,

1:38:45I don't think that they will actually

1:38:47have a lot that needs to be codified,

1:38:48but anything that they do, I will meet

1:38:50with them and try and get you some draft

1:38:52language as well. And then we'll move

1:38:53closer and closer to starting the

1:38:55drafting period. Um, I'm going to try

1:38:57and get a real rush on it for you guys

1:38:59so you can really have a a strong sense

1:39:01of like what's being proposed so you can

1:39:03feel comfortable with that.

1:39:04Additionally, um when we do reach the

1:39:07end of your terms, if you would ever

1:39:10like to participate in the resident side

1:39:12of it to help things moving forward and

1:39:13provide your input, um since all these

1:39:15will be streamed moving forward, you'll

1:39:17be able to watch and you can ask your

1:39:19questions over them as well. That will

1:39:20be an opportunity as well.

1:39:22>> And then it will go out to public

1:39:23comment at some point.

1:39:25>> Oh, absolutely.

1:39:25>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean this is open to

1:39:27public comment um every EAB meeting if

1:39:30anyone would like to come and address

1:39:31the board about about the subcommittee

1:39:33stuff and then before this ever gets

1:39:35adopted or anything like that it'll go

1:39:37before before planning board and

1:39:39>> council

1:39:40so you'll be available to speak lots of

1:39:43times and I think everyone would would

1:39:45appreciate that. Yeah.

1:39:49So, do you have any additional questions

1:39:52right now for Bruce or

1:39:56what?

1:39:58>> I'm good.

1:39:59>> Okay. Shall we go ahead then?

1:40:03>> All right.

1:40:05629. Thank you so much, Bruce.

1:40:11I'm

1:40:12>> so glad you told me that.