2026-09-09 - Multimodal Transportation Advisory Board

00:05Um, hello everybody. Would like to um go

00:09ahead and call the multimodal

00:10transportation advisory board committee

00:13um together today again. And I hope

00:16everybody's had a great summer. And I

00:18want to remind everybody, and

00:19[clears throat] we'll talk about this

00:20throughout the meeting, but um it's

00:22triit week September 8th through 12th.

00:26So, there's a lot of events going on and

00:28we'll talk more about those today, but

00:30uh just excited about the week so that

00:32we can do our extra promotions of

00:35transit during this week. Um um hey

00:39there. Um it looks like um we have um

00:44someone here from the community for the

00:46public comment. So, I'd like to call up

00:50Sandy Miller. Sandy, if you wouldn't

00:52mind coming up, we'd love to hear from

00:54you um to share your comments. I believe

00:58they may have discussed with you. Hey,

01:00welcome. Welcome. We appreciate you

01:01coming tonight. We usually don't get

01:03visitors, so we're excited. Anytime the

01:04community can come,

01:07share comments that. But now, Jen had

01:09mentioned that you all meet and she

01:11knows I do a fair amount of cycling. And

01:13>> excuse me, can you step up to please?

01:15>> So, we'd like for you to come on up. So,

01:17come on up and give us your name and um

01:20where you live and we've got three can

01:22give you three minutes um to share um

01:25your thoughts and comments to our um

01:28advisory board.

01:29>> Okie do. Um Sandy Miller um 103 Halls

01:34Court um just kind of down the hill in

01:36the Ape or Heatherwood Town Homes. Um

01:40like I said, uh Jen had mentioned, you

01:42know, you all do this and she said,

01:43"Well, you cycle. Do you have any

01:45thoughts or out?" I was like, "Well,

01:46I'll shoot." Um, so I usually disappear

01:50from my front door and head basically

01:53west, but I end up going through Apex to

01:56do so. Um, somewhere between

02:0125 and 45 miles and kind of out and

02:04about. Um, going through uh like the

02:08roads like in Apex. Um, roads are in

02:12great shape and you know, curbing and

02:13lights and whatnot. And I've got three

02:15blinkers um on my bike and loud

02:18obnoxious clothing. So um I'm if you're

02:22going to hit me, you're going to have to

02:23try. Um so um let's see. And I've I've

02:27really not had any issues um with, you

02:30know, getting run off the road or

02:32anything like that. Knock on something.

02:34Um there have been a couple of occasions

02:37I know and I don't know like I asked Jan

02:39I said well you know uh in town, out of

02:42town and she said whatever.

02:44Okay. So, um there are some um in town

02:48when roads have been improved um if you

02:52will and say if one is coming like into

02:55Apex off of um on old one and um there's

03:00a neighborhood on the left and they

03:02wanted to restrict

03:04people coming out of that neighborhood.

03:06So rather than being able to go left and

03:08right out of there, they've got a burm

03:11in the down the center of the road. It's

03:15like, well, that I can see why that is a

03:17good thing. But from from a cyclist

03:20point of view, the shoulders to the

03:22right of the white line are limited. Um,

03:25so cars don't really want to wait for a

03:29cyclist to go by. So despite the fact

03:32that there's a burm there, they will

03:34squeeze by and it's scary as heck. Um,

03:37so and again, I'll I'll ride the white

03:39line or to the right of it if I can. Um,

03:43I will not ride, side note, in a group.

03:46I know that there are a lot of bike

03:47shops that do do that. I will not

03:49because you get a group of cyclists and

03:51they don't yield. And as a driver,

03:55that's frustrating. as a cyclist is

03:57scary as heck because again the drivers

04:00get angry and it's it's a mess. So I'll

04:02I'm a solo rider. So I'll squeeze over

04:04to the right. Um maybe the only other

04:07thing that drives me baddy, although I

04:10can understand why from a um

04:15uh roads standpoint, it is a good thing.

04:17But the the ribbing, the um rumble

04:21strips or whatever you call them,

04:22they're on the right hand side of the

04:24road and um in the center as well.

04:26Again, I understand why um from a

04:29driver's point of view. Oops. Is that my

04:32three minutes?

04:33>> Sorry, you can finish your

04:34>> Okay. Um, but anyway, so great from a

04:37from a car safety standpoint, from a

04:39bike standpoint, also scary because I

04:42can't go to the right of that white line

04:44because it's, you know, shake your

04:46fillings loose. So, you end up out in

04:48the lane with the with the cars. So,

04:52again, from a cyclist point of view, um,

04:54I I really don't like those. And there

04:57they've been added more and more places.

04:59And again, I understand, but um from a

05:02cyclist point, I really don't like that.

05:04And it curtails where you can ride. So

05:07anyway, is that my three minutes?

05:09>> Okie dokie.

05:10>> Thank you so much.

05:11>> Thank you for listening. I appreciate

05:12it.

05:12>> We appreciate the input. [clears throat]

05:14Thank you.

05:17[snorts]

05:18All right. We'd like to call on the town

05:21clerk's office um to go through some

05:24administrative um updates.

05:34Okay,

05:35good afternoon. I am not Ashley U, but I

05:38am here in herstead. Um, so presenting

05:41to you all two items for consideration.

05:44Uh, the first is proposing moving the

05:46November 4th meeting um to the training

05:49room uh training rooms 3A and 3B. Um, so

05:53separate from the council chambers where

05:55you all normally meet. And then the

05:56second item is included in your agenda

05:58packet is the meeting schedule for

06:00calendar year 2027. This keeps um the

06:03consistent second Wednesday every other

06:06month at 4:45 at town hall. Um you have

06:10the schedule in your agenda packet. I

06:12have not received any comments on that.

06:14So just looking for a motion to adopt

06:17both the amendment of the schedule for

06:19November 2026 as well as amendment to or

06:23adoption of the 2027 meeting calendar.

06:26So moved

06:27>> or both?

06:28>> Yes.

06:28>> Okay.

06:30>> Would someone like to second?

06:32>> I'll second. Jennifer second.

06:36We've got a motion and a second to um

06:39approve the November 4th meeting to the

06:42training room and to approve the meeting

06:45calendar. All those in favor, please

06:48signify by saying I.

06:49>> I. I.

06:50>> Anyone oppose?

06:52>> Okay. Both of those car.

06:54>> Thank you. Thank you.

06:58[clears throat and cough]

06:59>> At this time, um, we'll go through the

07:02meeting minutes

07:07and I'll look to Chris Watson. Did you

07:10have a couple?

07:10>> Yes. Just one quick comment before

07:12handing it back over to you, Madam

07:13Chair. Uh, I want to call everyone's

07:15attention to the July 28th safety

07:18subcommittee minutes. Um, on page two of

07:21the minutes, which it will be page 43 of

07:24your entire agenda packet, um, uh,

07:27member Bruner has asked that we add the

07:29following statement to, um, the bottom

07:32of that page. Right after it says,

07:33member Bruner shared that direct

07:35complaints are difficult on a low

07:36ridership route because it becomes

07:38personal. Um, we are going to add um if

07:42it's if it if it passes here on a low

07:45ridership bus, complaining about a

07:47specific driver is risky because the

07:48driver can easily identify who made

07:50their complaint and retaliate by not

07:52picking you up at the stop. And then

07:54there's one more change um to the same

07:56minutes on page three. Essentially, we

08:00will just be removing the statement

08:02where it says briefly talked about

08:04extreme heat, bus driver shortage, and

08:06accurate bus stop signs C attachment.

08:09Um, that is currently under the followup

08:11from staff section. Moving that up to

08:14emerging issues items. First, want to

08:17pause, make sure that that's an accurate

08:18representation of the request, and then

08:20hand it back over to you for discussion.

08:22>> Correct. Thank I didn't realize that was

08:24all going to come formally. I thought I

08:26was editing drafts, but thank you for

08:28carrying that over.

08:29>> So, that's just a request um for

08:31revisions for the safety minutes and

08:32then all the other regular meeting and

08:34subcommittee minutes are as um what's

08:37included in the packet. No changes to

08:39those.

08:41I'll hand it back over to you.

08:43>> Chris, um on those So, can you give us

08:46the line number? That may be helpful

08:48because I know we've got line numbers on

08:49some of those pages.

08:52just just for those that may be looking

08:54and following along.

09:02>> Sorry, I thought I had it pulled up.

09:10[snorts]

09:23Okay.

09:29I think you had mentioned page 43,

09:32which would be page two of the minutes,

09:34but I just want to make sure that we've

09:35got the line number.

09:36>> Mhm.

09:38>> Correct.

09:50Okay. So the first revision on page 43

09:53of agenda packet page two it will be

09:56line number

09:59um

10:0527.

10:06So directly following line 27 carries

10:08over to line 28, we will add the

10:10statement that I read directly following

10:12that sentence.

10:14>> Okay.

10:15>> And then the second one,

10:18page three, carrying on to page four, um

10:22the emerging issues related to priority

10:24task. And then on that line 45, we will

10:27move that

10:29from the following section.

10:32>> Okay. Thank you. Any questions about

10:36those before we

10:39So, um, we'll start with, um, uh,

10:44approval of the minutes starting with

10:45the May 13th. I'd like to see if anybody

10:49would like to entertain a motion to

10:50approve the meeting minutes from the May

10:5313th regular meeting. Would someone like

10:56to make a motion?

10:57>> So, move.

10:59>> We have a motion.

11:00>> Seconded

11:00>> and a second.

11:03So, sorry to interrupt, but I'm helping

11:05to take notes. Would And I can't see and

11:09>> Okay.

11:09>> Okay.

11:10>> Who was who was the If you could just

11:11state your name.

11:13>> Noah.

11:14>> Uh Noah.

11:15>> Noah top.

11:17>> For the motion. Yes.

11:19>> Patrick Curley for the second.

11:20>> Thank you.

11:21>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

11:23>> I. I.

11:24>> Anyone opposed?

11:27>> Okay. So moved. And at this point, um,

11:30would someone like to entertain a motion

11:32and please state your name, um, to

11:35approve the minutes for the July 17th,

11:37um, move to this is Gay. July

11:40>> Gay. Anyone second?

11:42>> I'll second. Second.

11:44>> Okay, it's a motion and a second. All

11:46those in favor signify by saying I.

11:49>> I.

11:49>> I.

11:50>> Anyone oppose?

11:52Thank you.

11:54Now, we'd like to see if anyone would

11:55like to entertain a motion for the

11:57minutes for the July 6 infrastructure

12:00subcommittee meeting.

12:03>> A motion.

12:04>> This Patrick Pat made the motion. One

12:08second.

12:10Uh, Gay, I'll second.

12:12>> Okay. All [snorts] those in favor,

12:14please signify by saying I.

12:16>> I.

12:16>> Anyone opposed? [clears throat]

12:18Thank you.

12:20Um, at this point, we'll um ask for a

12:23motion to approve the minutes from

12:26Can I do both of those at the same time

12:28with the edits? Are y'all okay with

12:29that?

12:30>> That okay. The June 18th and the July

12:3528th with edits that were shared um just

12:38a few minutes ago um for the safety

12:41subcommittee meetings. Is there a motion

12:43um on that? I do have one question

12:46>> before we approve um the item in our

12:49minutes about possibly amending the name

12:51of the committee. I know it may be later

12:52in the agenda. I want to make sure if we

12:54don't need to do it now.

12:55>> Correct. That will be later in the

12:57>> later. Making sure. Then I'll make a

12:58motion to approve the minutes. Jennifer

13:00Aaylor.

13:01>> Thank you, Jennifer. Is there a second?

13:04>> I'll second it. Second.

13:05>> Okay. All those in favor signify by

13:07saying I.

13:08>> I.

13:09>> Anyone opposed?

13:11Okay. Thank you guys. a lot of minutes,

13:13a lot of lot of great work going on. So,

13:15thank you so much,

13:16>> Madam Chair, if I may take a point of

13:18privilege. Um, last meeting that that I

13:21attended was I missed the July meeting.

13:23I was out of town, but the meeting in

13:25May, uh, I very confidently stated that

13:28the subcommittees could meet u, you

13:30know, because there were not enough

13:32people to make a quorum so the sub

13:34committees could meet without public uh,

13:37uh, disclosure or public um,

13:39announcement of those meetings. I very

13:41confidently stated that and I was very

13:42confidently wrong in all of [snorts]

13:44that. So I'm I know that Chris and uh I

13:47think uh Katie sorted that out with with

13:50the subcommittees. So I appreciate

13:52everybody kind of rolling with the

13:54incorrect guidance that I had had

13:56provided at the time. U and I do

13:59appreciate the subcommittees getting

14:00together and reading through the minutes

14:02and some of the topics being discussed.

14:05So uh thank you all for uh meeting and

14:07getting together.

14:09>> Thank you. Thank you.

14:13>> Okay, at this time um we'll go ahead and

14:16talk about the subcommittee work. Um the

14:19fiscal year 2027 work plan subcommittee.

14:22We have updates from each of the

14:24committees. I believe um and uh I'll

14:28start with community outreach.

14:30Um

14:32the community outreach committee met

14:36on um July 17th from 3:00 to 5:00 at the

14:39Mason Street Municipal Building. And

14:42you've of course um seen the minutes,

14:44but just wanted to give an update that

14:46um during our meeting we looked at the

14:492027 tasks assigned and um uh went

14:54through and really uh

14:58set some goals and and looked forward to

15:00try to getting a lot more community

15:02engagement from our groups and to make

15:04sure we're supporting the staff um out

15:07in the community. um

15:10uh at we decided that we wanted to

15:13operate informally without a chair and

15:15we would give updates to this committee

15:17as a specific uh agenda item and I

15:21volunteered to be the representative um

15:24at this meeting. Uh, one of the primary

15:26focuses that we had at our committee

15:28meeting was to increase MTAB involvement

15:31in community outreach and we discussed

15:34ways for us to get involved. And so many

15:37of you saw all of you saw the um signup

15:40sheet that we did and actually we had an

15:43event yesterday and we have an event

15:45tomorrow and we've got an event this

15:47weekend. So, a lot of a lot of great

15:50events and a lot of great opportunities

15:51for outreach for all of us. So, I think

15:55um it's exciting that we can go ahead

15:56and start getting more involved and that

15:58was one of the things I think all of us

16:00talked about at the work session. So, I

16:02appreciate all of you signing up and I

16:04think there's still a couple other spots

16:05left, but we'll continue to do that to

16:08continue to um educate the community for

16:12us to work together with the staff and

16:14to do all we can to increase transit,

16:18increase communication, and and really

16:21help people know um the resources that

16:23are available. Um the the events coming

16:26up were the Pleasant Park Access Study

16:28that already happened on September 3rd.

16:31Try Transit was yesterday. There's the

16:33senior health fair on um Saturday. Touch

16:36of Trucks coming up in October. And then

16:39um we want to participate in future

16:42North Carolina DOT projects.

16:46Um outreach materials. I think the staff

16:48has a lot of um um materials, but we

16:51want to make sure we develop audience

16:53specific materials for seniors and youth

16:56and highlight transit benefits such as

16:59free service, service every 30 minutes,

17:027 days a week, key destinations that are

17:05served through transit, sustainability

17:07and affordability, and bicycle

17:09skateboard accessibility. Um under

17:12number two, one of the priorities was

17:14bus driver appreciation. I really want

17:16to make sure we explore ways to

17:18recognize Go Apex bus operators and

17:21raise public awareness of transit and

17:24ideas included coordinating um with go

17:27carry initiatives because they have a

17:29lot of initiatives going on. We want to

17:30make sure we coordinate with them.

17:32featuring uh driver profiles on social

17:35media, encou encouraging riders to thank

17:38drivers on designated day, thank you

17:40messages, reordering go Apex thank you

17:44cards, and encouraging elected officials

17:46in our committee to to to ride and thank

17:49drivers personally. So, we'll have plans

17:51for that. Under number three, we wanted

17:54transit promotion campaign and we

17:57discussed opportunities um through the

18:00potential look again campaign and

18:02proposed activities for promote expanded

18:05service, provide route maps, conduct

18:08train the trainer, engage apartment

18:10communities and employers and uh

18:13consider public art as highly visible

18:15bus stops. Um

18:18number four, transit data and analysis.

18:21Uh felt like the staff um at the meeting

18:24discussed several transportation efforts

18:26that are already underway. So we agreed

18:28to pause that work for now and um look

18:31at revisit it when future gaps are

18:34merging and then the same for bicycle

18:36and pedestrian outreach. We want to make

18:38sure um we all talked about that there

18:41was a lot of discussion on transit about

18:43bicycle and and pedestrian

18:45transportation and we the discussion in

18:48our committee was adding bicycle and

18:50pedestrian outreach to future community

18:53outreach opportunities and maybe discuss

18:56uh discuss appointing a cycle advocate

18:59or champion for MTAB. And it was great

19:01to have her public comment today and

19:04include this topic on future MTAB

19:05agendas. So our action items were create

19:09the event signup which was done. Uh

19:12draft a participation invitation,

19:14reorder go apex thank you cards, develop

19:17targeted outreach materials, create a

19:20route map and plan a group MTAB ride. So

19:25we need to do that. We're all going to

19:26go ride the bus together. So that'll be

19:28fun for us to do that. And then discuss

19:30bicycle pedestrian outreach strategies

19:32at future meetings. Um our future

19:34meetings. And our next meeting is

19:36September 21st at 3:30. So off to a

19:39great start. So um uh I'd appreciate Do

19:42you have any comments? Anything I left

19:44out, Gay? And um

19:47>> I don't think so.

19:49>> Yeah.

19:50>> Okay. Off to a great start. Um at this

19:53point, uh we'll ask for the

19:56infrastructure committee to give a

19:58report.

19:59>> Sure. Uh we met on uh July 6th. Um,

20:04Sacket and Noah and myself and staff uh

20:08met uh here and uh we identified three

20:12kind of targeted uh tasks uh for our for

20:15our subcommittee. The first one was

20:18looking at street design and UDO

20:19amendments and you know we'll revi

20:21review and provide feedback to the peak

20:23plan 20 uh 55 standards when they come

20:26out later this month. We have a meeting

20:28scheduled for later this month to

20:29discuss that. So um and the bicycle and

20:32pedestrian UDO uh updates in October. So

20:36um

20:37uh we have not met since that meeting

20:39that first meeting but uh we do plan a

20:41meeting later this month. Um second task

20:44was for uh project prioritization for

20:46the CIP and we'll we'll support the CIP

20:48review process and advocate for

20:50multimodel projects uh with there's some

20:52key touch points in September uh with

20:55preliminary staff request and also in

20:57October which is after the where staff

21:00requests are submitted and before the

21:02fiscal year 20 uh 2028 budget hearings.

21:07Uh hopefully the recommendations will

21:08help integrate multimodal priorities

21:10into the town budget which is you know

21:12kind of the over overarching uh goal for

21:14that. And the third task was uh

21:17supporting uh grant uh submission

21:19letters. The committee will work with

21:21staff to draft letters supporting

21:23transportation grants. U that's

21:25generally in October and January. Um and

21:29then uh the last thing is we scheduled a

21:31meeting for September 24th to start

21:32discussing the CIP and the peak plan

21:34updates.

21:37That's where we are right now.

21:39>> Thanks, Patrick.

21:40>> Thank you.

21:40>> Thank you.

21:42>> Thank you.

21:44>> And we'll call on the safety

21:46subcommittee.

21:47>> Yep. Your safety committee's down here.

21:50Elizabeth and I have met three times so

21:52far in June, July, and August. Um we

21:54addressed two of the main priorities on

21:57the giant spreadsheet of um established

22:00from our working group. uh the main one

22:02looking at bus safety and then we

22:04initially started out discussing the

22:06slope of the bus like that boarding

22:07slope issue. We've since expanded that

22:10discussion a little bit to deal with the

22:12detour to deal with issues of bus safety

22:14at the individual bus stops, setting up

22:17shelter, um better lighting, um better

22:20marking and signage, excuse me, for the

22:22bus stops. Um and then just the overall

22:25uh factors that go into selecting a bus

22:28and some of that is out of our control

22:29as there is a third party also involved

22:31and with go carry um to establish the

22:34kinds of buses we have available for use

22:36but just making sure we can address

22:38those safety concerns. Um and in our

22:40most recent meeting in August, we

22:41discussed um like loading and unloading

22:44with passengers with carts and baby

22:46strollers and some of the um rules and

22:49decision-m that those have to be closed

22:51as you board the bus. Um being possibly

22:54an unreasonable request for moms with

22:56small children or uh people coming from

22:58the food pantry with a fully loaded cart

23:00having to unload those items and then

23:02board the bus. Um it's timeconuming. It

23:04could be potentially dangerous if they

23:06trip and fall unloading those packages.

23:08So, just things to to address and the

23:10town has been very helpful and

23:12responsive in addressing some of the

23:13concerns we've established or things

23:15we've asked for feedback on um as

23:18they've met with town of Kerry

23:20representatives and local law

23:21enforcement as well um for safety around

23:23like the Mason Street bus terminal to

23:26make sure that the riders as you have to

23:27debus when the drivers go on break that

23:30people are safe and that you're not

23:32being um approached by some of the um

23:35unhoused individuals that spend their

23:36day on the bus. and then debus and

23:39panhandle while they wait um just to

23:41make sure people are safe and able to

23:43ride that bus and not have to worry

23:44about those concerns getting from point

23:46A to point B. Um our next meeting I

23:49believe is October 1st and we will also

23:51try to address our second agenda item um

23:54dealing with safe walking to school

23:56which also addresses sidewalks,

23:57crosswalks, um signage, driver awareness

24:00that you're in a school zone, things

24:02like that.

24:04>> Thank you. question. Um,

24:09is the is the subcommittee, the two of

24:14you, um, planning to attend the, I

24:18guess, awareness event on e- scooters

24:21and ebikes that the town has publicized

24:23for October.

24:24>> I don't know that we have planned to go

24:25to that. We can certainly try to add it.

24:27I am going to the senior healthcare,

24:29[clears throat] see when the the e

24:31scooter event is happening.

24:32>> Okay.

24:33>> See what the information is about.

24:35>> Okay. I know that has more of a youth

24:37focus that I'm understanding.

24:38>> It does have more of a youth focus, but

24:41the

24:43um I'm planning to attend, but I wasn't

24:47sure if either one of you it's for the

24:49community as well to help understand

24:52um what the uh guidelines and laws and

24:56the dos and don'ts and what you can and

24:57can't do.

24:58>> I'm definitely interested in the issue

24:59itself. I don't think I knew that when

25:01they had actually set up the date for

25:02it. But I saw they were planning

25:03something, but I'll definitely try to

25:04see if we can make that happen to get

25:06more input.

25:07>> Okay. I think it's in October. I'll have

25:09to check.

25:10>> Yeah, I know the mayor's at least

25:11listening to some of those issues and

25:13[clears throat] concerns thankfully.

25:14>> That'd be good to share with the

25:15committee everybody, but I'd like to

25:17maybe attend that, too.

25:20>> Whenever you find out,

25:22>> I think that's a good example of needing

25:24specialized expertise. Like, I would

25:26have nothing to add to a discussion of

25:28e- scooters except, you know, a couple

25:30personal observations. I think we do

25:33certainly need a bicycle representative.

25:35I hope the town council will think about

25:37that with future nominations and someone

25:40with insight into all the scooter moped

25:42issues.

25:49Thank you for all the updates. Great

25:51committee work. Um we do have a couple

25:54of requested actions. Um I um uh was

25:59added um on to the committee outreach um

26:05community outreach subcommittee and I

26:07think that needs to be a motion. So

26:10would someone um be interested in um

26:14>> I'll make a [clears throat]

26:16>> to add me to the subcommittee.

26:18[laughter]

26:19>> Is there a second?

26:20>> Second. Okay.

26:21>> Thank you. D.

26:23>> All those in favor please signify by

26:24saying I. I

26:26>> Okay. Any oppose? [clears throat]

26:29>> Thank you. We also um have asked to

26:32rename the safety subcommittee to the

26:34safety and accessibility subcommittee.

26:38Is there a motion um on the floor to

26:40rename that subcommittee?

26:44I move that we rename that safety

26:47committee to the safety and

26:48accessibility subcommittee. If anyone

26:50wants an explanation, let me know.

26:55This is Patrick. I second that.

26:57>> Okay. All those in favor signify.

26:59>> This would be a point to have

27:00discussion, right?

27:01>> Yeah. I'd love to hear.

27:02>> Yeah.

27:04>> Well, use the steep boarding slope as an

27:06example. Someone was climbing up there,

27:09slipped and fall, elderly person breaks

27:11their hip on cement. It's a safety and

27:13an injury. But what's really happening

27:15with the steep boarding slope is the

27:17folks who are at risk, people who

27:19consider it dangerous to get up and

27:21down, they have simply stopped riding.

27:24based on my observations and what bus

27:26drivers have said. So what became a

27:28safety challenge for the riders they

27:31observed as an intolerable risk and so

27:35they simply stopped riding. So we've

27:37spent a lot of time in the subcommittee

27:38hoping that they'd switched over to

27:40paratransit. In most cases the oldest

27:43riders who were using walking canes who

27:46battled the slope had uh English as a

27:48second language limited English skills.

27:51So how do we find them to make sure they

27:53know that if the bus doesn't work there

27:55is a paratransit option that just

27:57there's a lot of overlap between safety

28:00and accessibility and for me I I think

28:04accessibility is the bigger barrier at

28:06the moment it's perceived safety risks

28:09mean people are not writing

28:12>> thanks

28:14so expands the scope of

28:16>> well I think the rest of the group sort

28:18of wants it to narrow the scope I want

28:20talk about every operational risk there

28:22is, but there is a sense that the two

28:24really overlap.

28:27>> Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily say that

28:28expands the scope, but that would be a

28:31different conversation,

28:32>> but it um perhaps more accurately

28:35describes Yes.

28:36>> Right. what they're looking at.

28:40>> Understood. Yeah. Any other discussion?

28:43>> There's a m sure.

28:47>> Okay. I just real quickly going to uh I

28:50looked up the escooter event location is

28:54to be determined, but it's on October

28:563rd at 10:00 a.m.

28:58>> Thank you.

29:01>> Thank you. So, there's a motion um on

29:04the floor and a second to rename the

29:06safety subcommittee to the safety and

29:08accessibility subcommittee. All those in

29:11favor, please signify by saying I.

29:13>> I.

29:14>> I.

29:14>> Anyone oppose?

29:16Okay, thank you. Appreciate that

29:19recommendation.

29:20>> Before we leave this topic, may I ask a

29:23question?

29:24>> Um,

29:26so as part of the infrastructure kind of

29:28subcategory,

29:29um during the work session back in

29:32March, I believe, uh we identified kind

29:35of street designs as a an opportunity

29:38area

29:40uh to look at. And I kind of want to tie

29:41that back to the public comment that we

29:42just received, you know, around our

29:44street designs. Um, but I don't think I

29:47heard anything from the infrastructure

29:49subcommittee around uh street designs in

29:52general. It was the updates were a

29:54little bit more focused on the uh the

29:56investment planning and all that, which

29:57was another part that we had identified.

30:00Is that still something that that the

30:01subcommittee is looking at or and simply

30:04hasn't gotten to yet? um where you know

30:08where does that kind of sit or is is

30:10anybody covering that uh that street

30:12design question because again like you

30:14know just taking some of the public

30:15feedback you know there's there's some

30:17demand for making our streets a little

30:19bit more uh you know alternate transit

30:23uh friendly right and so I don't want to

30:25lose sight of that that's that topic

30:27that we had discussed back in March

30:29>> yeah we're supposed to meet in September

30:3124th a couple weeks uh to discuss the

30:34street design and the UDO amendment for

30:36for

30:36>> Wonderful. Thank you. Sure.

30:39>> And could I interject there as well? Um,

30:42also as part of our peak plan, our

30:45comprehensive plan and transportation

30:47plan update, the scope includes

30:50examining our street sections and

30:52updating those based on um

30:57context area. Not to get into too much

30:59detail right now, but the street might

31:02look different in an area more uh

31:05suitable and oriented toward walking,

31:08biking, taking the bus compared to other

31:10areas. So that's part of that peak plan

31:13scope um and will be included in the

31:17public forum three as well as shared

31:19with the board for

31:27>> any other questions about subcommittee

31:29work.

31:33So, [clears throat] um, one of, um, the

31:35next, um, agenda item is bicycle

31:39outreach and [clears throat] engagement.

31:41And, um, in our community outreach

31:43subcommittee, we talked about, um,

31:46possible strategies for reaching

31:48bicyclists. So, we put that as an agenda

31:50item to open it up for discussion to see

31:55what

31:57we have any ideas about ways, additional

31:59ways um that we reach out and get more

32:03input from the bicycle community. It

32:06sounds like

32:09the October 3rd date is great for us to

32:11know because that that's part of that as

32:12well.

32:17So, we're looking for suggestions on how

32:18to reach out to the bicycling community.

32:22>> I do have a quick question for some and

32:26our public comment speaker may have some

32:28input on this. Um, are the trail heads

32:30for like the tobacco trail. Is there

32:33bulletin boards still? I used to run out

32:35there and there used to be places where

32:36you could put information up and I

32:38didn't know if we could do something

32:39like a QR code or something to get

32:41people like to do an input survey or

32:44something kind of how we've talked about

32:45doing on the bus kind of in [snorts] the

32:47same way just to reach a different

32:48group.

32:52>> I I don't know if that's still there. I

32:53go there once in a while but I don't

32:54know if there's still a bulletin board

32:56there or not.

32:56>> Yeah, I know there used to be. I just

32:58don't know what this the setup looks

32:59like out there anymore. One place I I I

33:02play disc golf at this nature park on

33:04Saturday mornings and there are bicycle

33:07gatherings and literally

33:10100 I don't know maybe 100 bicyclists.

33:13>> Yeah. Like one cycling clubs.

33:14>> Yeah. Yeah. Huge packs of bicycles going

33:16up. And it' be a great place. You know,

33:18it's more of a inerson kind of thing

33:20than than posting or but you know I

33:22don't know if that's a possibility. I

33:24guess we have to figure out like if it's

33:26a scheduled meeting every Saturday or if

33:28it's [music]

33:29once a month or like if it's a a cycling

33:31shop organizing that to be able to

33:35>> connect with them. [music] I know like

33:37meetup.com has [clears throat] Apologize

33:40I'm yelling over the train. Um

33:41meetup.com has like cycling I'm sure and

33:44other hobby hobbyist kinds of things. Um

33:46that would maybe be good outreach to

33:47talk to cycling shops to see if they

33:49know um some of those local gatherings.

33:52I can try and talk to them when I'm

33:54there next and see where they're coming

33:55from, how to reach. It's a big It's a

33:58large number of bicyclists.

34:00>> Yeah. Is there someone that's kind of

34:01clearly they're a leader or organizer?

34:02>> There's a pace car they have, you know,

34:04with flashing lights and stuff. So, I

34:05mean, it's pretty serious, you know. So,

34:07yeah.

34:09>> I've been keeping notes of Facebook

34:11comments from serious cyclists who have

34:13lots of opinions and seem to have

34:15expertise and connections, so I can

34:17share those with the subcommittee. I

34:18guess just a handful of folks who seem

34:21like they would be good resources.

34:24>> There's there's also a um the Carolina

34:27Brewing Company has a cycling club. They

34:29meet on Sundays, I believe. Uh but a lot

34:33of people from Apex go um to uh you

34:37know, so there's there's some organized

34:39clubs in the area like that.

34:43Is the thought that we're trying to get

34:47input from the cyclists on what they

34:49would like to see or are we trying to

34:51address identified concerns?

34:55>> I think I think a little bit of both

35:00learn more about the needs and

35:01>> okay

35:03>> and uh we just haven't haven't focused

35:06on that as much. So, we sort of felt

35:09like there was opportunity for

35:12gathering more information and then as

35:16we're

35:18having infrastructure

35:20conversations and further conversations

35:24about meeting the needs of bicyclists,

35:26making sure to share that information

35:27back. So,

35:28>> Okay,

35:34>> great. Well, thank y'all. Thank y'all.

35:36That gives us a start and again we've

35:38got a meeting coming up in a couple

35:40weeks and that'll that'll help us have

35:42further conversation about that topic.

35:45At this point we'll um call on Katie.

35:47She's going to talk to us about the 2035

35:49weight bus plan.

35:55Chair

35:56just a point of uh clarification. I

35:59think we need to follow up on the

36:00escooter event that's being held on the

36:02October 3rd date because I'm not sure

36:04that that's a town event. Um, and so I

36:08want to clarify. Um, let us let us

36:11research that and follow back up with

36:12you.

36:13>> Okay.

36:14>> Cuz that that may be something one of

36:16the elected officials is hosting. Um,

36:18and so I just want I don't want this

36:19committee to be misled or confused that

36:22it's a townled event or town sponsored

36:24event. So, let us reconnect on that and

36:27we'll follow out

36:28>> follow back up with you all.

36:29>> Thank you.

36:30>> Okay. Thank you.

36:36>> All right. I'm going to use this new

36:38setup here. Um, do I have control of the

36:42PowerPoint? Yes. Okay. Hello. Um, I'm

36:45just here to give an overview of the

36:48Wake bus plan update that is um in

36:52progress currently.

36:54um give an overview of what what the

36:57project is, how Apex fits into it, and

37:01what you all can do to provide input um

37:04to this this plan. Um so the Wake bus

37:08plan is one of a few different types of

37:11plans that is part of the overall Wake

37:14Transit program. So, you're probably all

37:17familiar with that program, but um just

37:19as a refresher, it's the countywide

37:21investment strategy um for transit

37:25improvement and expansion in Wake County

37:27that is primarily funded through our

37:29halfsent sales tax that was approved in

37:312016. Um and there's a myriad of

37:35planning that gets done to ensure that

37:38um there's, you know, investment that is

37:42well thought out throughout the county.

37:44So, the Wake bus plan follows the

37:46overall Wake Transit Plan update and it

37:50focuses just on bus services um and

37:54associated capital projects. Um and it

37:57also develops short range transit plans

37:59for the main uh transit agencies in the

38:02area which are Go Raleigh, Go Triangle,

38:04and Go Kerry. Um, and those short-range

38:07transit plans are actually detailed to

38:09the project level of identifying which

38:11routes are prioritized for funding

38:14within the next three years. Um, so it

38:16gets pretty detailed.

38:18Um, where it sits in the overall plan

38:21hierarchy for Wake Transit is kind of

38:24what I alluded to before. It's it's more

38:26detailed than the overall 10-year

38:29strategy. Um, and it it kind of gets at

38:34the bus service for those main three

38:36agencies. Um, and it's not the only

38:40planning that gets done at that level.

38:42There's also other planning um that we

38:44do as part of the CFA program and that

38:46gets done for other types of projects.

38:49Um, so it does not include CFA projects.

38:52So Apex and all the other smaller

38:55municipalities are responsible for our

38:57own detailed transit planning. Um and we

39:02apply for funding through the CFA

39:04program. So this bus plan does not cover

39:07that program. Um, it also doesn't

39:10include rail or other types of transit

39:12projects that the overall strategy might

39:15include. And it doesn't include projects

39:19that those other agencies, GO Carry, Go

39:21Triangle, and um, Go Raleigh might um,

39:26uh, initiate that aren't funded through

39:28the Wake Transit program. So they they

39:31have their own funding sources that they

39:33might choose to fund projects through

39:35and those wouldn't be included in this

39:36because this is really feeding into what

39:38what is funded through that that

39:40program.

39:43So I just said the CFA program which

39:45we're a part of is is not part of this

39:47bus plan. So how is this relevant to

39:48Apex? Um well we do have a pretty big

39:52stake in this process because it leads

39:55to project ideas that could still serve

39:59Apex. So the go triangle route 305, the

40:03the go triangle route 311 and the go

40:05carry route 9 are all routes that are

40:08funded through the wake transit program.

40:10And the town of Apex doesn't put any

40:12budget, you know, towards those routes

40:16from from our town budget, but we still

40:18benefit from them. Um, and so with the

40:21bus plan, now is the town's chance to

40:24weigh in on new proposed improvements

40:27and expansions, you know, into the

40:29future. Um, this plan will also

40:34um look at ways to prioritize community

40:39transportation hubs, which were

40:41identified as a new item in the the

40:43latest overall transit plan update that

40:46was approved last year. And we think

40:48Apex is a great place for a community

40:51transportation hub and is a great um

40:54kind of uh match for what we're planning

40:57with the Apex mobility hub that we've

40:59talked to you all about before that um

41:02could be a potential future passenger

41:04rail station, bus transfer area, etc.

41:07So, so we're looking at at those through

41:10that lens as well um from a staff point

41:12of view. But these are all things that

41:14are up for uh review and public comment

41:17as it goes through this wake bus plan

41:20update for potential funding.

41:23So where we are right now in the project

41:25is is phase one and that is really um

41:31what the what the project team is

41:33focusing on is gathering input from the

41:35public and stakeholders about what are

41:39what we prioritize first. Um,

41:43there's a public survey out right now

41:47that I'll get to in a in a minute that's

41:50really just throwing a bunch of stuff

41:51out there and asking for reactions. Um,

41:54it doesn't mean that any of those things

41:56are set in stone yet. And um really that

42:01this this point of the project is

42:02gathering input. um into 2027 is when

42:06the project team is is planning

42:08[clears throat] to try to use that

42:10feedback to develop the list of

42:11recommendations and in which point there

42:15will be more for review and and comment

42:18on. Um, so the idea is to finalize this

42:23for

42:24summer 2027 with some projects

42:28potentially getting funding as as soon

42:30as FY28 depending on how the timing

42:32works.

42:34Um,

42:36as far as our marketing for phase one,

42:39um, uh, one a member of the the Campo

42:43project team, uh, did a tableabling

42:46event, um, totally like Spanish language

42:49focused at Compare Foods on August 5th.

42:52Um, our planning team sent out an email

42:55blast on August 12th. Chris put up

42:58flyers in our Go Apex bus shelters. And

43:01then tomorrow we'll be outside of the

43:03Mason Street Municipal Building as part

43:05of our triit week um booth and we'll

43:09have information about this project as

43:10well. Um we did get some preliminary um

43:13feedback from the project team that go a

43:16that apex in general is um

43:20proportionately over represented so far

43:22in the survey results which is a good

43:24thing for us because it means that more

43:27people from Apex are providing input

43:29than they would guess just based on our

43:31population proportion. So, it seems like

43:35the out outreach is working so far, but

43:38we could always use more input as the

43:40project goes on.

43:42Um, oh, and yeah, and Gay signed up for

43:45uh a slot tomorrow, so she'll be there,

43:47and Linda will also be there in the

43:49afternoon, so we're excited about that.

43:52Um, so I just wanted to give a quick

43:53overview of the routing concepts. Um,

43:56has anyone actually taken the survey yet

43:58by chance?

43:58>> Yes.

43:59>> Okay, awesome.

44:00>> And attended one of the meetings.

44:01>> Oh, great. Okay, awesome. Um,

44:04>> and in person, a focus group.

44:06>> That's great. Yeah,

44:07>> it's transit related. We're there.

44:09[laughter]

44:11>> Um, so you're familiar with this, but

44:13for those who haven't taken it yet, I

44:14encourage you to take it. Um, there is a

44:17map that is currently only found within

44:19the survey itself that outlines some

44:22kind of initial proposed routing

44:24concepts that are in no way finalized,

44:26but are out there for reaction. Um, and

44:31the project team is seeking input. Apex

44:34staff did not develop these project

44:36concepts, so we're reacting to them as

44:39well as you right now. Um, but the

44:42there's three that

44:45would serve Apex essentially. Um there's

44:47a proposed go carry route 10 concept

44:51that um would travel from downtown Apex

44:54to the Wake carry area through 1010 road

44:59and Kildair Farm road um which would be

45:03an hourlong runtime and would

45:06essentially be stylized as a go carry

45:10route if it if it gets prioritized for

45:12funding.

45:14Um there's also a proposed new go

45:18triangle route called the triangle

45:19regional express concept which would go

45:23from Fuway Marina to Holly Springs to

45:25Apex and then get on 540 as an express

45:30to the regional transit center in RTP.

45:34Um,

45:36again, these are still conceptual, so

45:38the routing isn't finalized, but the

45:40idea would essentially be a connector to

45:43get, you know, folks from Fugua, Holly

45:46Springs, Apex to um regional

45:49connections.

45:52And then there's also a proposed Apex

45:54Raleigh Express which would replace Go

45:57Triangle route 305 to try to streamline

46:01the routing from Apex to downtown

46:03Raleigh.

46:05um hopefully save a little time, but we

46:06we don't have any numbers yet on the

46:10actual timing, but it would it's

46:13conceptualized to start at Vidia, go to

46:18downtown Apex, and then get on 64, hop

46:21off at Tryan Road for Wake Med, and then

46:25back onto the freeway to downtown

46:28Raleigh.

46:31Um, and I'm I'm not going to go over

46:34these in details, but there's basically

46:36a question asking about reactions to

46:38those routing concepts and then some

46:40kind of general kind of ranking

46:42questions about what types of priorities

46:45um, respondents have for transit

46:48improvements. So, you know, more

46:50amenities at bus stops, more crosswalks

46:52and sidewalks, what's the priority

46:55there? because there is funding for

46:56pedestrian improvements associated with

46:58transit access in the plan. Um

47:03what types of services are the most

47:05important to focus on? That's you know

47:07up to individual respondents to

47:10determine. You kind of pull and um sort

47:14um priorities.

47:17um

47:19kind of similar question, what what

47:21types of service improvements

47:23and then anything else you would like to

47:25see. So, it's open-ended. Um so, I just

47:28wanted to bring attention to that and

47:30request that you take a look and and

47:32fill out the survey if you have time. Um

47:35we're still looking through it ourselves

47:37at the staff level, but I I already have

47:39some just, you know, conceptual

47:41questions for the project team that

47:43we'll be working through. But I also

47:45just open the floor and if there's any

47:47questions that we can either relay to

47:49the project team or that you just might

47:51have about the project.

47:52>> Katie, will you be able to get the

47:54filtered survey responses for just the

47:56apex population?

47:58>> Um I can request them.

48:01>> I think that would be useful for us.

48:03>> Yeah, I think it's um through public

48:05input and I believe that they have the

48:07ability to do that. Um so I can I can

48:10request that. Yeah.

48:16May I ask a question?

48:17>> Yeah.

48:18>> Um

48:20based on the proposed routes, the three

48:23routes that you just referred to,

48:26um is there any connectivity overlap or

48:29conflict with our own go Apex bus routes

48:34that we have been planning out?

48:38I'd say there's probably not that much

48:40conflict actually with with what's

48:42planned so far. The the emphasis is on

48:47in the concepts that we've seen so far

48:50on making regional connections which we

48:52didn't really focus on with the

48:54prioritization study. I did have a brief

48:57discussion with the project team about

48:59the proposed change to the 305 into an

49:03more of an express route format because

49:06right now the 305 does have local stops

49:09in town and it serves the um or was

49:12planning to serve the Pine Plaza Drive

49:15area. Um

49:18it the routing on the 305 has been

49:20shifted a little bit for um operational

49:23reasons for go triangle, but it was

49:24their intent to serve that area. And we

49:26just talked through potential timing of

49:29Go Apex route 2 concept which would

49:33serve that area and and the the ARX

49:37conversion and not wanting to leave a

49:40gap where there wasn't um service in

49:43that area. Um, so that was like an early

49:46piece of feedback I had for them. So I

49:47think the timing of that one is probably

49:49the the thing we would need to pay the

49:52closest attention to. Um, but as far as

49:55the the Triangle Regional Express, um,

49:59there's

50:01um, it would only be um, an improvement

50:04because it would provide access down to

50:06Fugay, which we don't have right now. um

50:08and would still kind of mirror what we

50:11have with the 311 um which has started

50:14up service in August. Um it doesn't

50:16actually go all the way down to Holly

50:17Springs or Peuway. Um so I'm rambling

50:21now, but there aren't actually a lot of

50:24conflicts that I see. I think it it

50:26would improve overall regional

50:28connectivity without probably impacting

50:32our local connectivity too much.

50:34And would these routes

50:37congregate in the um mobility hub that

50:40we were planning?

50:41>> So they would they're all proposed a

50:44little bit differently, but a comment

50:46from staff would be that we would need

50:48them to serve that location to provide,

50:50you know, transfer opportunities.

50:53Um so that's a big priority for us. Um

50:57there the the concepts the routing

51:00hasn't been finalized, but that would be

51:01an important factor for us.

51:03>> Thank you.

51:05I would say for the express route

51:08replacing the go triangle 305 that in my

51:10observation there's lots of people apex

51:12people included who do use that to hop

51:15off at surprising kind of local stops.

51:18They're not using it just to go all the

51:20way to Raleigh. I think that classic

51:23commuter who's going from a suburb into

51:25Raleigh to work, that's not what in my

51:28experience the passengers look like in

51:29the 305. So, I would hate to lose too

51:32many of those intermediary stops. I

51:35mean, keeping Wake Carry is important

51:37and as you say, the Lake Pine Shopping

51:39Center, but then there's just odd

51:41unusual stops where I'm not quite sure

51:43what people are getting off to do, but

51:45it's always been all the way along 305.

51:49Lots of people hop on and off rather

51:51than like I often find if I ride the

51:53305, I'm the only person left when we

51:55get to Raleigh. People are not commuting

51:57directly to downtown Raleigh. They're

51:58getting off and in between places.

52:01>> Does the current 305 route go by Wake

52:03Mad Carry?

52:04>> Yeah, it sure does.

52:05>> So, they're keeping some of the same.

52:07>> Yes. Although, we should make a big

52:10stink about getting a much much better

52:12bus stop there.

52:14>> We've talked a little bit about that,

52:15too. Yeah, that's a it's a challenging

52:18area for pedestrian connectivity. Um

52:23Yeah. But coming out of the hospital,

52:25you know, I mean, for even a mammogram,

52:27for anything, it's like kind of a

52:28horrible, horrible place to wait.

52:32>> Uh 305 goes to Holly Springs now,

52:34doesn't it?

52:35>> Yeah. Now the 305 goes all the way down

52:37to the Walmart in Holly Springs.

52:39>> And if they replace 305 with this

52:42express, are we losing that kind of

52:43tail, the ability to go to Holly Springs

52:45from AF?

52:46>> Yeah, that's a good point. So, it would

52:48essentially have to be replaced by that

52:50other route, the

52:53the Triangle Regional Express that would

52:56go all the way down to Holly Springs and

52:58Fugquway. But that's a good point. Yeah.

53:00So, the timing of that would be

53:02important, too.

53:03>> And the new 311 that goes up Highway 55,

53:06that does go to Holly Springs Classic

53:08Park and ride spot. And well, just to

53:11make a little comment about the 311

53:13during the first two weeks it was in

53:15operation. I rode it for a curiosity.

53:18Everyone else on it that Friday were

53:20they were curious riders. They the

53:22drivers said they hadn't had anyone who

53:23was legitimately commuting. And on

53:25various transit posts, transit websites,

53:28people make videos about transit. They

53:30all were commenting that at least thus

53:32far in the first two weeks there weren't

53:34any legitimate that no one saw a

53:37legitimate person who parked and rode to

53:39a highpaying technology job in the

53:42research triangle park that it was so

53:45that's like really interesting whether

53:46the park and ride model I think we

53:49should watch 311. It'd be thrilling, you

53:51know, if they had 20 commuters riding

53:54that repeatedly, you know, at least

53:56during the morning and the afternoons.

53:57But thus far on the days that I rode,

54:00everyone was uh retired or disabled. And

54:03they were just curious like not a single

54:05one of us were going to use it for any

54:07kind of employment purpose. And the

54:09drivers kept asking, "Oh, are you going

54:11are you would you use this for a

54:12commute?" No. No. [laughter] No one ever

54:15was. So I think we just need to watch it

54:17and think about what are realistic

54:19expectations

54:21for a more affluent employed population

54:23to use the bus.

54:25>> I wonder what their outreach efforts

54:26look like if the if the route's fairly

54:28new with that parking ride. Like did you

54:31tell anybody that this was available

54:33that you could park and then get into

54:34your job at RTP?

54:36>> Right. Outside of bus world. I think

54:37that's the problem. If you're a bus

54:38person and you follow the bus news then

54:40you saw it everywhere. Have we told the

54:42RTP companies, hey, if you've got staff

54:44over here that live this far out, we've

54:47got a route for them.

54:49>> I will say one other little thing about

54:50the 311 is Go Triangle is great about

54:53having a public comment period, and it's

54:55well promoted again to bus world. I

54:58don't know about promotion to the

54:59general public, but they post service

55:01change comment periods on the bus stops

55:03and in the bus. And so I and I know

55:06there were other people the same way

55:08with the 311 service change. There were

55:10three of my requested route changes for

55:14Apex residents on the 311. For example,

55:17now it stops at High House and 55 where

55:21you can catch the Go Carry 4 and there's

55:23a Walmart neighborhood mart on one side

55:26of the intersection, a Dollar Tree on

55:28the other. And it was going to bypass

55:29that. And now it's stopping at the

55:32Aldi's on uh Highway 55 in Apex where I

55:36knew from a social media comments that

55:38there are people who live near there who

55:40really wanted access to the bus. So for

55:42them the 311 rather than being regional,

55:45it can be a short hop towards downtown

55:47Apex where they can catch the one. I

55:49mean that's in some ways the most

55:51valuable thing it does. And by that I

55:53mean maybe four or five people but you

55:55know ridership is low. So getting a few

55:57more people to be able to catch into the

55:59one which means they can catch into the

56:01nine or they could go to the four and go

56:03to the depot. Just the universe kind of

56:06opens up but on its own go triangle they

56:10were not going to do those stops. So it

56:11was a really good reminder to me that

56:13being loud and vocal and getting other

56:15people to say the same thing that you

56:17can change your route to serve our local

56:19population.

56:23Any

56:31other comments or questions?

56:37>> Any other comments or questions?

56:43>> Thank you, K.

56:44>> Okay. Yeah, that was an action. Yeah.

56:46>> Thank you so much. [clears throat]

56:48>> Okay. This time we're gonna call on

56:51Jenna to talk about letters of support

56:54for the infrastructure grants.

57:04Hi, good evening. So this requested

57:07action is based on the task identified

57:10in the group's annual task work plan.

57:14So, at our last, excuse me, at our last

57:15subcommittee meeting, we discussed

57:18potentially giving the authority to the

57:20sub the infrastructure subcommittee

57:23to be able to sign infrastructure grant

57:25applications. And this is really in the

57:28event that there's not a regularly

57:29scheduled MTAB meeting. And they would

57:32be signed on behalf of the subcommittee.

57:35And yeah, just wanted to get this

57:36group's thoughts and see if this is

57:38something you'd be interested in.

57:41[snorts]

57:43I think it makes sense to be able to

57:45look at grant applications and when they

57:48talk about signing the letters of

57:49support to be able to encourage the town

57:51to then apply for infrastructure grants

57:54>> for the town to Yeah. All right. With a

57:56letter on behalf of the subcommittee to

57:58support the town's grant application.

58:02Yeah,

58:02>> I think that makes total sense. I mean,

58:03if we're trying to get things done,

58:07>> I agree cuz I think as a subcommittee,

58:10we would have more insight into the

58:13short-term and long-term plans of the

58:15town and how the application would fit

58:18into that plan

58:20>> and we would work with the staff to

58:22develop the letters. Correct.

58:23>> Yeah. We dropped it up and then asked

58:25for review if that sounds good.

58:27>> Yeah. And and my question was that is um

58:31this would be the town wants to apply

58:33for a grant. It may be helpful to have a

58:35subcommittee submit a letter of support.

58:39>> So it's essentially just supporting what

58:41the town is already planning to do.

58:43>> And if it fits into the larger MTABS

58:46schedule, we may just bring it to the to

58:48we would bring it to this group. But if

58:49the timing doesn't work out Yeah.

58:52>> But we do only meet every other month.

58:54So you don't want to slow things down.

58:58Jenna.

58:58>> Yeah.

58:59>> Just a point of clarification again. The

59:01the letter would be on behalf of the

59:03subcommittee or the full board,

59:06>> whoever signs it. Correct.

59:09>> If if it was signed by the subcommittee,

59:11it would be on behalf of the

59:12subcommittee.

59:13>> Okay.

59:13>> Is what we're proposing.

59:14>> Okay. [snorts]

59:16>> So, the subcommittee would not

59:17necessarily sign on behalf of the board.

59:20>> Correct.

59:20>> They would sign on behalf of the

59:21subcommittee

59:22>> if it goes to them. That's correct.

59:24>> That's what we're proposing. cuz I think

59:25the idea is because we meet every other

59:28month if there's an application in the

59:31interim, not having to wait an entire

59:33two month period to sign that letter of

59:35support. Is that the thought?

59:36>> That's correct.

59:37>> Yes. Okay.

59:40And that makes

59:42sense to me, too. What What discussion?

59:45Any other discussion?

59:48If no discussion, um would someone like

59:51to entertain a motion?

59:55>> I move to grant authority to the

59:57infrastructure subcommittee to sign

59:59letters of support for infrastructure

1:00:00grant applications.

1:00:02>> I'll second that. This is K.

1:00:07>> Thank you.

1:00:08>> Any discussion on that? Any more

1:00:10discussion? Any questions?

1:00:13If not,

1:00:15okay. All those in favor, please signify

1:00:18by saying I.

1:00:19>> I.

1:00:19>> I.

1:00:20>> Anyone oppose?

1:00:22Okay, that's great. I think that's a

1:00:24great efficiency. That'll be great for

1:00:26y'all to review those. Okay, at this

1:00:29point, we'll call on Chris uh Watson to

1:00:32just give us someformational updates.

1:00:34Thanks, Chris.

1:00:38>> Um, thank you. I do not have any

1:00:40specific highlights. I did just want to

1:00:42remind everyone um that some of the

1:00:45information that Katie presented on the

1:00:48weight bus plan materials and links are

1:00:50included in theformational items as well

1:00:52as some of the peak plan 2055 um

1:00:56additional information and links as

1:00:58well. So, if you haven't already, um,

1:01:00please review those to learn more about

1:01:02both the W bus plan and upcoming PE plan

1:01:05items. And then the subcommittee meeting

1:01:06dates should also accurately be

1:01:08reflected in theformational packet. But

1:01:10other than that, do not have any other

1:01:11highlights.

1:01:18A question on the

1:01:20ontime performance for bus route one. I

1:01:24don't know if it's because it's the

1:01:26summer seasonality, but there seems to

1:01:28be a continuing negative trend of

1:01:30on-time performance

1:01:33from April to through July from 85% to

1:01:3675.6%.

1:01:38Do we know why?

1:01:40>> Yeah, I know we've had some incidents um

1:01:42during that time period, but I'll first

1:01:43hand it over to Katie in case you want

1:01:45to provide any specific context with

1:01:46some of those specific percentages.

1:01:50Um, so we're up I'm looking at the graph

1:01:53right now. Can you hear me? Sorry.

1:01:56>> Yes.

1:01:56>> Um, and we're it looks like for FY26

1:02:01we're in the 80s. So I'm I'm I'm

1:02:05wondering if you're looking at the the

1:02:07wrong fiscal year on the graph because I

1:02:09know last year we did have some ontime

1:02:12issues primarily.

1:02:13>> No. So, right. So, FY26, but then the

1:02:16first month being July continuing to dip

1:02:20and wanting to know outside of the two

1:02:22incidents mentioned on July 7th and July

1:02:2520th, is there any other known

1:02:27explanation?

1:02:29>> Um, I don't have those details.

1:02:31>> Okay.

1:02:32Well, I have theories about this. As a

1:02:34bus rider, it's very concerning to me

1:02:36that the bus is being detourred through

1:02:38the Salem Streetscape construction zone

1:02:41and that forces it over both sets of

1:02:44railroad tracks at Hunter across from

1:02:47Town Hall. So, it's not just, you know,

1:02:49we saw in the incidents that a bus

1:02:51missed a loop entirely because of the

1:02:53railroad tracks. It's routine. I took

1:02:56the bus yesterday on the first stop

1:02:59coming out of the construction zone at

1:03:01Suvita grocery store and it was already

1:03:0410 minutes late which is you know pretty

1:03:06unacceptable that early in the route.

1:03:10The other issue that's happening is

1:03:12there's a forced disembarkment at the

1:03:15municipal building and this partially

1:03:17explains boarding counts as well. So try

1:03:21to put this in context. Normally if I

1:03:23ride go Apex to a destination I board

1:03:26once, ride it to Walmart, reboard and

1:03:29take the bus close to home. Now what

1:03:31happens and this happens almost in every

1:03:33round trip. You go through the municipal

1:03:36building layover point. You used to be

1:03:38able to stay on that bus. You know it's

1:03:41only there for 3 to 10 minutes. So you

1:03:43stay in the air conditioning etc. But

1:03:46now it's a forced disembarkment since

1:03:48midappril. And that explains some of

1:03:50these numbers. So everyone has to get

1:03:53off. Not great for weather exposure, for

1:03:56safety, all kinds of problems. And then

1:03:58you reboard. So my trip that's two

1:04:01segments now is always counting as three

1:04:04segments. So that inflates numbers, but

1:04:06it's well known that the process of

1:04:08boarding and disembarking slows down bus

1:04:12service. So that's just another thing at

1:04:15the missile building. Every single time

1:04:17they have to wait for everyone to get

1:04:18off. in some cases, but someone who

1:04:21requires the ramp to walk off on because

1:04:23of the steep boarding slope and then

1:04:26because of now staff disagree with me. I

1:04:28believe that it's the detour and the

1:04:30railroad tracks are a big reason the bus

1:04:33is in my mind almost always behind

1:04:36schedule. Staff think it's traffic on

1:04:38Highway 55, which would certainly be a

1:04:40factor, but the the bus is behind

1:04:43schedule. So, the drivers are losing

1:04:46their break. They don't get a lunch

1:04:47break. only break they get is at the

1:04:50municipal building transfer point. So if

1:04:52they're behind schedule and they only

1:04:54get two minutes, they don't even have

1:04:55time to go to the restroom, eat a

1:04:56banana, smoke a cigarette. The drivers

1:04:58are speeding up once they're on the

1:05:01route, once they get out of the

1:05:02construction zone. It used to be that Go

1:05:05Apex would travel 15 to 20 m an hour.

1:05:07It's really slow because it's usually

1:05:09empty. It's usually doing the route and

1:05:11not stopping to pick people up. So the

1:05:13risk is normally ahead of schedule. Now

1:05:16the bus is coming out of downtown behind

1:05:18schedule and loop after loop after loop

1:05:21and the drivers are picking up speed.

1:05:23They're going like 45 to 50 m an hour on

1:05:26these rinky dink little buses, an Arbach

1:05:29and a Champion. And this is documented

1:05:32in videos. We're bumping and we're

1:05:34rattling and people are going airborne.

1:05:36People are being tossed out of their

1:05:37seats by a speeded up bus. So very

1:05:40strange things are happening with the

1:05:43drivers compensating for the detour,

1:05:46pulling into the municipal building a

1:05:48little bit late, dumping passengers off,

1:05:50racing to the restroom, making cell

1:05:52phone calls, picking up passengers. You

1:05:54can see how quickly we're late again,

1:05:57loop after loop, and then you get a

1:05:58train there, and you kind of see why,

1:05:59well, they just give up on finishing a

1:06:021-hour route.

1:06:05>> No, thank you. That actually answers my

1:06:08next question which would be what to

1:06:09explain or how to explain the increase

1:06:11starting in May but your forced

1:06:13disembarkment just explain that. So are

1:06:17we. So what what changed in in April May

1:06:19to that people cannot stay on the bus?

1:06:22Do we know?

1:06:23>> I'm sorry. Say that louder.

1:06:24>> So what what changed in April or May

1:06:26with the disembarkment? is go carry the

1:06:31Cary decision is that they were g what

1:06:33go carries transit director said to me

1:06:36and I'll let staff correct with their

1:06:38own interpretation but what I was told

1:06:40is that it's always been the policy is

1:06:43that just drivers have always been

1:06:45ignoring it and now that the municipal

1:06:47building has a little tiny shelter it's

1:06:50two seats and a wheelchair space a

1:06:52little shelter that go triangle paid for

1:06:55for the 305 that sort of let them say,

1:06:58"Well, we're going to force people off

1:06:59the bus, but they have somewhere to

1:07:01stand or sit as protection from the

1:07:03rain." And that led them to enforce this

1:07:05policy.

1:07:06>> But then when people get back on the

1:07:07bus, we count them again. Like, so

1:07:09somebody sitting there with a clicker

1:07:11going like, "Oh, yep. We got another

1:07:13rider."

1:07:13>> And so now that it took a little

1:07:15conversation, right, to get Terry

1:07:17decision makers to admit that in fact it

1:07:19did help a lot with boarding statistics

1:07:21for the Go Carry 9, which is low

1:07:23ridership, and for Go apex number one.

1:07:26forces an extra up and down. But there's

1:07:29also the whole security issue that the

1:07:31percentage of homeless riders is

1:07:33increasing fast and furious. When we

1:07:36went to a vision zero safety conference

1:07:39as part of the go apex delegation, a

1:07:43police sergeant from Apex police was

1:07:45there and he was the first person to me

1:07:47who confirmed that ridership

1:07:49demographics have 100% changed. We are

1:07:52so likely in the winter most passengers

1:07:55were homeless. They were coming from

1:07:56Raleigh or Kerry, sleeping on the go

1:07:58apex bus. And so part of the force

1:08:01disembarkment is about homeless

1:08:03passengers. It makes it a less desirable

1:08:06route. It used to be if you never had to

1:08:08disembark, you could go back and sleep

1:08:10and just circle hour after hour after

1:08:12hour. Go Apex One was the best place to

1:08:15sleep if you were homeless and it was

1:08:17usually an empty bus. No one was going

1:08:18to bother you. you go to the back and

1:08:20you never have to get out. So that's

1:08:22part of it. But if you're going to force

1:08:23the homeless to get off the bus every

1:08:26hour, so it's a less desirable place to

1:08:28sleep. What happens is if you have

1:08:30someone like me, an older woman who's

1:08:32housed, it's now me plus the homeless

1:08:35passenger who's sitting at the municipal

1:08:37building. The drivers with their radio

1:08:39connection dispatched, they go to the

1:08:41back. So they're a little more safe from

1:08:43the homeless. I had my first experience

1:08:45of being panhandled at the municipal

1:08:47building. And this was in the morning.

1:08:49It was like 10:30 in the morning. But

1:08:51the homeless fellow waited until there

1:08:54was no one. There weren't dog walkers.

1:08:56There weren't employees. There wasn't

1:08:57cars. And came over and asked for money.

1:08:59And I was okay saying no. But a few

1:09:02moments later, his buddy, a second

1:09:04homeless person, got off the 305. And

1:09:07now it was me plus two homeless men. And

1:09:09you just think about that, right? If

1:09:11this had been a late route, if it had

1:09:13been after dark, the municipal building

1:09:15is closed, there's inadequate lighting,

1:09:17there's no security, unlike the other

1:09:19transfer points where the homeless

1:09:20congregate, we don't have a security

1:09:22guard there. That for me it meant do not

1:09:25ride at night, right? That there's just

1:09:28enough of a risk of some pressure of it

1:09:30feeling less safe. So there's all those

1:09:33complicated factors of why go carry is

1:09:37doing forced disembarkment. The final

1:09:39thing and you're being nice to let me

1:09:41talk about this. It's a burning issue in

1:09:42my head is if you are someone like me,

1:09:45someone or someone older or someone with

1:09:46walking cane and you have trouble with

1:09:48the boarding slope and now we're forcing

1:09:50us to do an extra up and down. For me

1:09:53personally, the down hurts more than

1:09:56going up for my injured hand. Then for

1:09:59me it was the final straw. I try not to

1:10:01ride go apex anymore. I mean that was

1:10:03just it. We have a detour. We have a

1:10:05sleep soap. We don't have enough weather

1:10:07protection. we have less security

1:10:08concerns. And then finally, the up and

1:10:11down. It's more serious than you might

1:10:13think for the vulnerable passengers. If

1:10:15you're young, able-bodied, really

1:10:16athletic, then it's not that much of a

1:10:18[clears throat] big deal unless it's

1:10:20extreme heat and rain. But for others of

1:10:23us, it was sort of a final straw there.

1:10:28>> Thank you.

1:10:29>> Thank you.

1:10:30>> I'm also

1:10:30>> I did want to point out a few things.

1:10:32So, we did increase the level of service

1:10:35provided in April. um and it continues

1:10:38to increase since then. So I don't think

1:10:41the wrership increases, you know, 100%

1:10:46due to the the Mason Street Municipal

1:10:49Building um policy enactment um by

1:10:52Goary. Um

1:10:55additionally, I just wanted to point out

1:10:56that some of Elizabeth's comments are

1:10:58speculative. we don't have confirmation

1:11:01of all of these items and we have other

1:11:04anecdotal evidence that that you know is

1:11:07not necessarily corroborating all that

1:11:09information. So I do want to point that

1:11:10out that this is one person's

1:11:12observation

1:11:14and you know we do continue to work with

1:11:16goary to make sure we're providing a

1:11:18good service. So I I do really want to

1:11:20point that out.

1:11:23>> Thank you. I also wonder if some of this

1:11:25discussion can also be appropriate for

1:11:27the safety subcommittee to continue to

1:11:28kind of brainstorm some of these

1:11:30concerns and mitigation strategies um

1:11:32just because there's a lot that you

1:11:34brought up.

1:11:36>> I think also to know your question about

1:11:39um delays um for example last couple

1:11:42weeks there was a small delay when the

1:11:45senior center was closed. Uh some of the

1:11:47construction workers were parking their

1:11:48vehicles in that circle lot. So, I mean,

1:11:50that was a simple, quick fix, but those

1:11:53um routes, those trips were probably

1:11:56going to be delayed, too. So, it's

1:11:57probably a combination of some of the

1:11:59concerns that Elizabeth brought up and

1:12:00also just some, you know, day-to-day

1:12:03impacts.

1:12:04>> Sure.

1:12:13So, so the April, May, June 2026 numbers

1:12:16reflect the

1:12:18change in service frequency. So, the

1:12:21numbers went up, the the ridership

1:12:22numbers went up, but the the boarding

1:12:24per trip and the cost went down and the

1:12:26cost went up a little bit. Is that fair

1:12:28to say? Okay.

1:12:31>> And that is average boardings per trip

1:12:33rather than per hour.

1:12:34>> Mhm. So, it's not like you're dividing

1:12:36that by two buses.

1:12:39>> I don't believe that's how that's split

1:12:41up.

1:12:41>> Yeah. Revenue hour basically means for

1:12:44one vehicle. So, if we have two vehicles

1:12:47in service, um that's per vehicle.

1:12:52>> So, like in J July, we think during an

1:12:55hour with two different buses, there

1:12:57were over five people

1:12:59riding during that hour. Is that what

1:13:01the statistic means?

1:13:02>> Correct. Yep.

1:13:11Except of course you didn't have to

1:13:12recalculate based on the forced boarding

1:13:14at the municipal building. See it gets

1:13:16really tricky to convert this into human

1:13:18beings.

1:13:28Could I just ask one question? label of

1:13:30average boarding per trip and maybe it

1:13:32was discussed how do we define trip?

1:13:35>> What is a trip?

1:13:37>> What is a trip?

1:13:39>> Um so the official measurement for

1:13:42transit ridership is called an unlin

1:13:45passenger trip which is one person

1:13:47boarding and one person al lighting the

1:13:50bus. Um so it's it's um not a round

1:13:56trip. It's not somebody transferring to

1:13:58two different buses. It's one one body

1:14:02on one boarding.

1:14:06>> So So one body. So if me and Sam are

1:14:10there, if I board, is it a trip?

1:14:13>> Yep.

1:14:15>> And just because she's waiting, that's a

1:14:17trip or she doesn't even need to be

1:14:19involved.

1:14:21>> I'm not sure.

1:14:22>> Get on the bus, then it doesn't count.

1:14:23>> It doesn't count, right? Yeah. So

1:14:25waiting passenger doesn't count just

1:14:26once you get on. But even if you go just

1:14:28to one next step it's still a complete

1:14:30trip.

1:14:31>> Correct. Yeah.

1:14:32>> Versus somebody who went to the from the

1:14:34start to the end that's also a trip.

1:14:37Correct.

1:14:37>> Correct. Yeah. And larger agencies are

1:14:40required to measure something called

1:14:41passenger miles traveled which kind of

1:14:44gets that that that statistic that

1:14:45you're getting at. Um, but we don't we

1:14:49don't get that to that level of detail

1:14:52of like how many miles people are

1:14:54traveling.

1:14:55>> Got it.

1:14:56>> Could we do we have the technology to

1:14:58look at that?

1:15:00>> Um, go Carrie probably has the

1:15:02technology to do that through their

1:15:04APCs, but we it's not part of our

1:15:07contract to necessarily get it. We could

1:15:09request information on that.

1:15:18Thank you.

1:15:24>> Sorry, one more question,

1:15:25>> please.

1:15:26>> The ontime percentage on page 72

1:15:30versus the ontime

1:15:33percentage on page

1:15:3676.

1:15:38What's the difference

1:15:43>> for a specific month or

1:15:44>> let's just say June it says 94.4%

1:15:49on page 70.

1:15:50>> Uh it's paratransit the doortodoor

1:15:53service for disabled people is on the

1:15:56low second set. Yes. Versus a fixed bus

1:15:59route. Got it. [clears throat]

1:16:04>> And why is one higher than the other on

1:16:06time?

1:16:08So the door-todoor service is a

1:16:11reservationbased trip service. Um so

1:16:14those are a separate set of ridership um

1:16:18that are it's calculated differently. So

1:16:20those are the the vans that will pick

1:16:22folks up and drop them off at a specific

1:16:24address. Um and so they're they're

1:16:28they're a different form of travel and

1:16:30so we have to report those numbers

1:16:32differently to FTA and to um our funding

1:16:36partners. Um so it's just they're

1:16:38considered different data sets.

1:16:40>> Thank you.

1:16:44[clears throat]

1:16:54Any other questions on the info items?

1:17:04Okay, next up is other business.

1:17:06>> Thank you.

1:17:12>> Thank you. Okay, this is the um other

1:17:16business section where any board member

1:17:19can bring up anything um to introduce a

1:17:22topic that's not included on the regular

1:17:24agenda. Does anybody have um one of

1:17:27those items they'd like to discuss or

1:17:29bring to the bring to the advisory

1:17:32board?

1:17:43Okay,

1:17:45seeing none, if we don't have any other

1:17:48business,

1:17:50>> just one comment about you'll see

1:17:51November 4th is our next meeting. Just a

1:17:53reminder with the um proposal. Yeah.

1:17:57>> And we'll send out reminders before

1:17:59>> next regular meetings, Wednesday,

1:18:00November 4th. Um it'll be here before we

1:18:04know it. So again, um, to everybody,

1:18:07happy transit week and I appreciate all

1:18:10the works everybody done and I believe

1:18:12this is a first. [laughter]

1:18:14>> Get out a little early.

1:18:16>> We need to move to ajourn.

1:18:18>> Yes, it will. Um,

1:18:19>> so moved.

1:18:20>> Yeah. Do we have a second?

1:18:22>> I second it. Second.

1:18:24>> Okay, we have a motion, a second. All in

1:18:26favor of adjourning?

1:18:27>> I Anyone oppose and stay long.

1:18:32>> Thank you guys so much. Great work

1:18:33everybody. Thank you.

1:18:38[laughter]

1:18:38>> Wow,

1:18:39>> that's official.