2026-09-15 - Town Council Work Session

01:57No, sure didn't.

01:59She said,

16:34To the flag of the United States of

16:36America and to the republic for which it

16:39stands, one nation under God,

16:41indivisible, with liberty and justice

16:43for all

16:50agenda here. going over to town first

16:56and then we'll pass it.

17:01>> All right. Thank you, mayor. Uh good

17:03afternoon, mayor and council. Uh thank

17:05you for joining us this evening. Uh the

17:07first item is, as you know, a deferral

17:10from the August 25th meeting. Um,

17:12Council Member Gray had made a request

17:14to defer

17:16an agenda TC1 through TC6 to this work

17:20session September 15th. Um, and then on

17:22Friday, I also received a request that

17:24the mayor could withdraw his

17:25recommendations for the advisory board

17:27appointments. Um, so really just looking

17:30for direction from the elected body on

17:32what next steps look like.

17:34>> Adding to that, I will share that the

17:37recommendations

17:39for this meeting are for the record of

17:40this meeting. That's the right

17:52>> just the process

17:56what what do you all want to do? I mean

17:58my understanding is that um you have we

18:01have the nominations, we have the the

18:03records. So, um, if there's any

18:05clarification on what next steps look

18:07like in terms of the process, um, then

18:10now's the time.

18:12>> Do want to add, I know there was an item

18:14set to planning board which occurred

18:16last night. Um, one of the things that

18:19occurred the last section I was present

18:22when that language was created

18:26and referred to the planning board.

18:29made that because I did

18:33look

18:37>> that's

18:40about that now. I mean it's most

18:42planning boards they they think they

18:44would be right.

18:45>> Yeah.

18:46>> So it's it's an open matter. Let's I

18:49mean I would ask for consideration by my

18:52colleagues to have that conversation

18:53now.

18:55You guys are

18:58fine.

19:03>> I think the intent behind the BO

19:05amendment was to essentially place a

19:08time a time limit on how long we would

19:13have to wait for a time understand that

19:18for that for that day. And I think the

19:24larger portion on on that and I think

19:29that was brought up during the

19:31planning board's discussion yesterday.

19:35Um I know I've had a chance to watch the

19:37u watch the comments and watch the

19:41hearing. I think one of the questions

19:44that we would be very good to help

19:47answer is I think there appears to be

19:50some confusion as to why they were

19:52getting this and I think this would be a

19:54good opportunity to provide the

19:55background and explanation and that way

19:57they can have a better understanding as

19:59to what that language uh what the

20:02language is and what it's there for. I

20:04see that you put it up on on the screen.

20:05Thank you.

20:08Yeah, and there were there were some

20:09other changes, but a lot of the other

20:11changes were um just clarifying, you

20:14know, them being corporate limits and um

20:17we typically provide a recommendation to

20:18the county before

20:21representative appointed. Um so the

20:24primary

20:28um and this is for

20:32judgement and then the same for

20:36I I do want to add that based on my

20:38recollection,

20:41there's been two meetings that we

20:45one was a little bit more intense than

20:47the other, but I will add that. Um, I've

20:52always recommendation.

20:55The one with Tracy T involved, she was

20:58the only one who applied for that seat

21:01at that time. when we open that she was

21:04still the only so there was really

21:10no delay or intended delay for that

21:13position the other was Tina Sherman

21:16or chair

21:20again we didn't agree but that got

21:22resolved that I'll also add this u we

21:26still haven't finalized the process on

21:29planning board

21:31selection process

21:34Where are we at with that?

21:36>> Well, before we move forward, I do think

21:38I don't I don't remember the

21:41disagreement about Tina Sherman being

21:46because ultimately in the course of the

21:47vote,

21:51she moved forward.

21:52>> Sure. So I mean I think there may have

21:54been conversations and I think there may

21:56have been some perceptions as to the

21:58disagreement but I I don't I don't see

22:00that as being a disagreeing point

22:03by council and anybody because in the

22:05end when the vote came about there

22:07wasn't a was a yeah I mean am I am I off

22:12on that? Well, it it changed during the

22:14meeting. There was

22:17discussion

22:19because there was a disagreement with

22:20myation

22:22for

22:24the discussion led to Mr.

22:30>> I guess I remember that conversation and

22:32the discussion taking place before we

22:33got into the meeting but I don't I don't

22:35remember during the course of the

22:36meeting. It was before the meeting

22:38>> was initially disagreement spoke to me

22:41as reconsider. So

22:45>> because I remember having a lot of

22:46conversations with with the staff this

22:48prior to the meeting because I think

22:50it's very important that if there's

22:53going to be you know when we're having

22:55these meetings the expectation of the

22:58public is that we get things done.

23:02So I I don't remember that. I mean I you

23:06can have your recollection. I can have

23:07my recollection but my recollection was

23:09that that was not a fight that took

23:10place during the course of the meeting.

23:12>> So is is that

23:16the conversation like do you want to

23:18relitigate these meetings or decisions

23:21from the past or do we want to focus on

23:23the language here?

23:26Yeah, I was getting context

23:33that there's not been a recommenation

23:36presented that delay.

23:41I I

23:43respectfully disagree because we have a

23:45number of course positions that have

23:48expired where we have not yet

23:52new candidates for

23:56>> I think we are delay that's that was

23:58really the whole purpose of putting

24:00clockically

24:01you know in the language of the UDO

24:05uh because the current language as it

24:07reads [clears throat]

24:09Um basically the whole process needs to

24:12be discovered as I may

24:16if a mayor I don't want to make with us

24:19universally right but a mayor for

24:21whatever reason is not able or willing

24:24to make a recommendation

24:27we are stuck in in in these nominations

24:31I think that's disrespectful to first of

24:34all the people that serve in those

24:36positions because now they're serving an

24:38expired position positions

24:41where we still expected to continue the

24:43search because there's no on

24:46these eight expired.

24:52Uh so now we're expecting these these

24:54folks to serve beyond the term that they

24:57have committed

24:59uh for indefinite amount.

25:02I also think it's

25:04disrespectful towards the candidates

25:06that have applied for these positions

25:09and we're not, you know, we we last year

25:12updated the application process. We made

25:14it much more uh

25:18rigorous than what it was previously.

25:20And so here there's there's a number of

25:22people that have taken the time to

25:23submit their applications and we're not

25:25acting on these these appointments. So,

25:29I think we're we're in a place that

25:32we're kind of stuck, right? And so, you

25:34know, we have a list of nominations in

25:36front of us or a list of candidates in

25:39front of us for open positions that we

25:41have not got to for months now, right?

25:45These terms have expired.

25:47And so, I do believe that that's the

25:50current process that's allowed for

25:52delayed,

25:54you know, but these recommendations are

25:57not There needs to be another path for

25:59council community appointments. That's

26:01that's basically what the intent of the

26:03shot clock is is that you know we you

26:06know it needs to be routine business for

26:08us right nominations and then and

26:10appointments come up uh at least twice a

26:13year. Um so the intent here is to have a

26:18processing place where at least 30 days

26:21before the expiration of the term we get

26:23a recommendation from the mayor counting

26:25extra votes as we move on people roll

26:28out iniration date and then people get

26:41>> so we just again

26:45What's that? I have not

26:48I didn't pull it from the last

26:52but

26:53I'm asking is it to go to a regular

26:56dentist which is September 22nd.

27:02because there are people who want to

27:04wait and check out the

27:09[clears throat]

27:12not for

27:23opportunity to talk about it public

27:29or after that.

27:33Where's where's the process with

27:36one day that we stopped

27:38where we at?

27:39>> So, I sent you all an email on Friday

27:41that we were trying to schedule

27:42interviews for the one hour before

27:45September 22nd. Um, and so I've

27:48confirmed with both Tendai um Zang as

27:51well as Kyone Neville and both of them

27:53are available to do their interview on

27:55Tuesday right before the council

27:56meeting. So, um that

28:00It's been added to y'all's calendar and

28:02it's been scheduled. But um

28:05>> what's the detail of the process?

28:07>> Um so this will be the first time that

28:09you all have conducted interviews for

28:11planning board. Um there will be a list

28:13of draft questions that are circulated

28:15to you all similar to any other time

28:16that you all have participated in

28:18interviews. Um and once those questions

28:21are circulated to you all at the

28:23meeting, I will ask if you all have any

28:25changes. If you don't, then I would

28:27encourage you to ask the same questions

28:28of each candidate. Um, and then after

28:31the conclusion of the interviews, you

28:33all can make a recommendation at that

28:34time. Um, or wait until a meeting.

28:41>> I get a motion to go into close session.

28:59We can we can stay

29:03we can go to the executive conference.

29:04It might be easier.

29:06>> Okay.

29:07>> Or going to the executive

29:08[clears throat] conference.

29:18>> Yeah. I'm sitting here.

29:36>> Okay. Go ahead.

49:27check in with that team.

49:32We're off.

49:34Okay, we're back in session

49:36and

49:39yes in front of us right now discussion

49:43this item and then we'll move to

49:46the recommendation I made to different

49:56>> so just to get into some of the points

49:59that we weren't able to talk any close

50:01session that have to be made in open s.

50:04So I know that we've got our interviews

50:09with regard to planning board are coming

50:12up

50:14uh at

50:16>> 22nd. So we have those interviews coming

50:19up and those interviews initially were

50:21established that we would have those

50:23interviews back in April

50:26as a way of resolving

50:29and making a selection between two

50:32qualified candidates come on plan

50:35and that was a decision that was made

50:37back in April

50:42due to scheduling other things like that

50:44not able to get that done until

50:47August and then

50:50now we're in September.

50:53Take a look back

50:55and at some point time after those

50:57interviews that's when we will make

50:59decision

51:02we'll vote up or down the decision will

51:04be made after those interviews. That's

51:07right.

51:10Now with regard to those interviews, my

51:12understanding is that

51:14even with those interviews, once those

51:17interviews are concluded, the question

51:19will still come down to

51:22whether or not there's been a

51:24recommendation of that person by the

51:27mayor to vote up and down on. And it

51:30appears to be the position that unless

51:34the mayor makes the recommendation

51:39person

51:41and what's if we're voting on a person

51:44that person necessarily has to be

51:46recommended by

51:49that's my understanding of the you know

51:52I think that's a fair interpretation of

51:54kind of where we're at in terms of the

51:55overall process so the way that it looks

51:59to me is

52:01whether it's these

52:04issues that we were looking to try to

52:06resolve today in terms of board, various

52:09boards, or even with the planning board

52:12interviews for next week. Unless we get

52:15the recommendation from the mayor, we're

52:16just dead in the water.

52:20That's my take.

52:24And the mayor has indicated he is not

52:25making any recommendations today.

52:29So, I don't see how we can take action

52:31on anything today.

52:39So

52:41we could do one of two things. We could

52:42just

52:45make a motion to continue vote up and

52:47down on that.

52:50Continue it to a date that we think

52:51appropriate or we can do nothing have

52:56the matter be closed and then it gets

52:58continued over to the 27.

53:01It appears that the mayor's real concern

53:03is that he feels as though he has not

53:05had an opportunity to to play a role in

53:07this entire process. I I would only

53:10point out that we've been going through

53:11this for the last year, but I think it's

53:14I think it's his concern is fair in the

53:17sense that

53:20last work session when we did the CI

53:22step away and the discussion about the

53:24appropriate way of going with this UDO

53:28was ultimately kind of discussed with

53:30the intent of the UDO being

53:34we've got to figure out a way of making

53:35sure that we don't have vacancies

53:38sitting around for a year or a year and

53:4018 months.

53:43And I think that I think I think those

53:45are I think that's done in good faith as

53:47well. I think that's a statement in good

53:49faith which is trying to figure out how

53:51to do the shot clock and the mayor's

53:53already told he doesn't have objection

53:54to the shot clock. I think the question

53:56that we've got to talk about now is

53:58whether or not that proposal that was

54:01sent to the youth to the planning board

54:03that proposed change to the UV is

54:05ultimately where we need to go.

54:08or whether or not there [clears throat]

54:09needs to be a change in how that UBO is

54:12ultimately going to be addressed because

54:15of the concerns that as we are looking

54:18at this right now he wanted to vote on

54:20somebody mayor has not recommended him

54:22he has said he is not going to he not

54:24have the ability to vote up and down and

54:26close these

54:301 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

54:3511 12 13 14 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

54:41vacancies that we have open. That's

54:43great.

54:46>> If it's um three, four, five, six, 7, 8,

54:529, 10, 11, 12 that are currently needing

54:56action.

54:57>> Yes, I didn't get to finish. I was

54:58talking about current vacancies, but we

55:00can talk about current and projected

55:02vacancies because we have terms expiring

55:04when?

55:05>> December. That's how many months away

55:11[laughter]

55:11I know. Three months away. But I bring

55:14that up because we've got terms that

55:16have expired for for that same period of

55:20time. And if it took us, you know, a

55:22little over nine months in some

55:24instances, six months in other instances

55:26to get these things cleared away. My

55:28confidence in our ability to solve this

55:30problem in three months is I must say uh

55:34not high confidence is not high in that.

55:37So I think the larger picture needs to

55:40be addressed which is

55:42the

55:45filling of these positions

55:47is something that the council has said

55:50on numerous occasions is very important.

55:53They provide guidance, they provide

55:55input, they provide opportunities for

55:58community to be involved.

56:00Closing these things out at the first

56:02opportunity should be something that we

56:04should really look at seriously. I think

56:08my colleague comment that, you know, we

56:12don't want to leave just the open-ended

56:14question out there and I think that's

56:15right. I think that's I think that's the

56:18appropriate view to take. So, as we look

56:20at where to go, I think the question

56:22we've got to ask ourselves is will that

56:25current proposal as viewed by the

56:29planning board yesterday, is that going

56:31to ultimately solve the problem? And my

56:33argument is that it will not. I think

56:36the language needs to be changed so that

56:38it's the mayor may make recommendations

56:41and remaining and keeping the remaining

56:43portions so that if there is an action

56:45by the person sitting in the position of

56:48mayor it does not hold up the process

56:51>> is not section does

56:52>> yeah that's why I said when I say we

56:53keep section

56:56so great

56:58and I think I shared this at the

57:00beginning there are many dynamics she

57:02has processed

57:04the mayor is currently sitting at the

57:06seat has not

57:08process

57:11process

57:16again last

57:28question.

57:46So I will make a motion continue

57:51the provision of the advisory board

57:54appointments

57:56to the 22nd.

57:58They appear under the town clerk's

58:02portion of the agenda.

58:20second.

58:28So either way, we're not going to get

58:30these appointments.

58:32No recommendation.

58:34Uh so motion or not

58:38continue at some future date

58:43might be the 22nd might be something but

58:46I you know me not seconding the motion

58:51is

58:54expressing my frustation you know

58:56sponting these these nominations time

58:58and time again I make that point earlier

59:01I think of disrespect for people serving

59:03in these positions It's big. I think

59:05it's disrespectful to that client and

59:09you know I think we need our job.

59:17>> It's clear you got

59:21>> I would like [clears throat] to make a

59:22motion that um

59:25become policy that all vacies appear on

59:29every meeting going forward.

59:32>> Thanks. Sorry

59:35>> that all vacancies automatically appear

59:37on every

59:39motions no complications vacancy

59:42sessions

59:46all the details

59:49around

59:53me in this but I may just

59:57soing

1:00:03your

1:00:05Well, because I I second it perhaps

1:00:09prematurely, but I second what you said.

1:00:11So,

1:00:16>> got a bunch of appointments that expire

1:00:18on July 1.

1:00:20>> We should

1:00:22operating.

1:00:25>> What I'm saying is all vacancies would

1:00:28be July 15th.

1:00:31We've gone past that period for SEC is

1:00:34now open. I'm saying expire terms. So

1:00:39when the process were ideally to work

1:00:42already to happen, they'll just be there

1:00:45until we're ready to go.

1:00:46>> Yeah. No.

1:00:48>> No, I got it. That's why second

1:00:53>> you know someone expires July 1

1:01:02[clears throat]

1:01:06if we put it out there

1:01:09and we don't have candidates that also

1:01:12be a reason

1:01:17we need a vote. on the motion

1:01:21motion on the motion first or at least

1:01:23there needs to be a second in order to

1:01:24make that motion because I've already

1:01:28>> motion and you made a second correct

1:01:30then you have a motion that you're

1:01:31discussing. Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:35>> And and the motion is is that all

1:01:36vacancies

1:01:38that currently exist or or expired terms

1:01:41rather do I would say because we have we

1:01:43do have some people that are holding

1:01:45over um in positions that would

1:01:47otherwise be vacant. So we do have some

1:01:49people that are holding over. So expired

1:01:51terms andor vacancies will appear under

1:01:55the town search report at every meeting

1:01:57until they're acted on is what I'm

1:01:59hearing.

1:02:02the process that we want to see happen

1:02:14that I understand the mayor's request

1:02:16but kind of feels like a bit of a a

1:02:19compound for us going last point I made

1:02:23we do our job get these positions let

1:02:25them just show up making decisions on

1:02:28every agenda

1:02:29you know whatever whatever the reason

1:02:31for their [clears throat]

1:02:34regard to recruit people which doesn't

1:02:36really seem to be a problem

1:02:39or just move forward to the

1:02:40recommendation.

1:02:43So I support the motion that's made on

1:02:48>> and I I do want to draw at least some

1:02:52contrast to the issue of

1:02:55we don't have qualified candidates to

1:02:58apply because my understanding is

1:03:01reading the UDO be more than happy to

1:03:03hear people tell me I'm wrong but all

1:03:07that requires is that the man

1:03:13in other parties in order for what

1:03:16>> for for recommendation doesn't there's

1:03:19no there's no commentary with regard

1:03:21qualification background

1:03:24>> other than whether they're a resident of

1:03:26DTJ or otherwise

1:03:28>> correct

1:03:29>> but but I do think the rules of

1:03:31procedure does speak to that there's an

1:03:33application

1:03:34>> right there

1:03:35>> in a separate rules of procedure there

1:03:37is [clears throat]

1:03:38rules.

1:03:40I mean independent of that rule

1:03:42procedure says mayor makes a

1:03:44recommendation

1:03:48>> to clarify that recommendation you know

1:03:51isn't binding in a sense. Oh yeah. No,

1:03:54no. I think that's that's going to be

1:03:55the change. I think that's going to be

1:03:57the change that will ultimately the the

1:04:00thing that I want to make sure we are

1:04:01addressing is the problem of this mayor

1:04:05doesn't make a recommendation. We're

1:04:07sitting on an open mayor makes a

1:04:10recommendation, we all vote it down or

1:04:12doesn't care, then we still have the

1:04:15same problem of a vacancy. So what we've

1:04:18got to do is be creative enough to think

1:04:20about how do we solve the problem? The

1:04:22problem is the vacancy

1:04:26and we're not getting the appointment or

1:04:27recommendation from the mayor,

1:04:30>> but we still have the vacancy because

1:04:31that's the stop gap right now.

1:04:33>> That's the right 30 days,

1:04:35>> right? Yeah. And that's why I say that's

1:04:37where this is going to solve the current

1:04:39problem current that we have here. No

1:04:43recommendation, no moving forward.

1:04:46>> Like today, we have no recommendation.

1:04:48No moving forward. Well, until something

1:04:50changes, I guess to get a

1:04:52recommendation.

1:04:54>> I still think that the language I agree

1:04:55and I think the language in D should be

1:04:57more permissive as opposed to shall to

1:05:00may. That way, it gives the mayor

1:05:02flexibility to say, listen, I there's a

1:05:06bunch of folks who I don't want to pick

1:05:08from or there's a bunch of folks that I

1:05:11know or there may be a conflict or

1:05:13something else like that in this group

1:05:14of applicants. [clears throat]

1:05:16It shouldn't hold up the

1:05:20To that point, I also point out we're

1:05:22under no obligation once we get

1:05:33under

1:05:37no forcing function where someone

1:05:44question.

1:05:54>> I think the UDO says that somebody was

1:05:56ATJ or 18 and lives within our

1:06:00jurisdiction,

1:06:01>> right?

1:06:02>> U

1:06:04procedure, but that's more of an

1:06:05explanation, but UD minimum has

1:06:09qualification.

1:06:10>> But so do we

1:06:14I mean at the end of the day it's

1:06:15council's job to make people if council

1:06:19believes

1:06:21by majority that somebody is not

1:06:23qualified whatever the reason I don't

1:06:26think we need to specify

1:06:30any birthation

1:06:40right so

1:06:43So unless there there's so we have an

1:06:46application right and so just like with

1:06:48a job interview like you read the resume

1:06:52and you believe the candidate is not a

1:06:55right again that's an individual

1:06:57decision that each of us needs to make

1:07:01>> right I don't think we can capture in a

1:07:03few words what qualified means for every

1:07:06single position that's out there because

1:07:08somebody I believe might be well

1:07:10qualified for the parks and advisory

1:07:14boards might not be the right person on

1:07:16the board of

1:07:18any board of adjust.

1:07:21for legal background.

1:07:41>> I clarify your question separate from

1:07:43this. Don't we have a motion on the

1:07:44table?

1:07:46>> Okay. I didn't know I didn't know how

1:07:47this fit. the specific language

1:07:51on second discussion.

1:07:53>> Okay. But I mean we're talking about

1:07:54this stuff and it seems different from

1:07:57what from the motion itself.

1:08:26Okay. So, looking at the North Carolina

1:08:29League of Municipalities, they have

1:08:31started their uh by legislative goal

1:08:33setting process for 2728.

1:08:36Um and so part of this activity today,

1:08:38hopefully all of you have your phones.

1:08:40Uh we're going to ask you to scan a QR

1:08:42code and submit um some responses so

1:08:44that we can get a consensus built on

1:08:47these priority areas. So, finance and

1:08:50revenue, infrastructure, economic

1:08:51development, disaster recovery and

1:08:53resilience, housing and new development,

1:08:56land use and growth, local authority and

1:08:58governance, and operations. These are

1:09:01the categories set by the League of

1:09:03Municipalities. Um, and this process

1:09:05will help inform our own time of apex

1:09:09government relations agenda. And we have

1:09:12um a point kind of at the end of this

1:09:14activity um for JP to walk us through um

1:09:18what we envision the town of Apex's

1:09:20process to be. Um so again um the

1:09:24legislative goal setting process. There

1:09:26is a legislative summit coming up on

1:09:27September 30th that will be held in

1:09:29Winston Salem. This is for all um

1:09:32members that are part of the league. Um

1:09:34so about 550 municipalities or so um

1:09:38that are that are invited to

1:09:40participate. Um each of those categories

1:09:42will be asking council to rank one

1:09:44through five. Five being your highest

1:09:46priority um one being your lowest. Um

1:09:49and then what will happen next is we are

1:09:53asking you all to designate um an

1:09:55individual from the elected body. Mayor

1:09:57Pton currently serves on the legislative

1:09:59policy committee with the league. Um so

1:10:01designating him to submit um the

1:10:04responses on behalf of the town. Uh

1:10:06there will be a discussion at that

1:10:07legislative summit on September 30th and

1:10:10then the legislative policy committee um

1:10:13will kind of talk about where they see

1:10:16the items falling down. This is a

1:10:18calendar at a a quick snapshot for you.

1:10:20We're at step two of a eightstep

1:10:23process. So we're very early on um in

1:10:26this development phase. Uh, Mayor Proto,

1:10:29I don't know if you want to speak to any

1:10:31of the developments of the legislative

1:10:33policy committee um, at this time.

1:10:36>> Really, I mean, we're going through

1:10:37broadly the same last year where they

1:10:40have these sessions surveys for all the

1:10:43towns and then staff is going to go

1:10:45through the next couple steps and bring

1:10:47them into groups and then the work of

1:10:48the committee is to uh, kind of pump

1:10:51stuff between the groups and decide on

1:10:53the final step through a series of staff

1:10:55driven exercises.

1:10:57Lot of fun. Okay.

1:11:00So if you will um scan this QR code here

1:11:02for finance and revenue focus

1:11:06and then there should be a setup

1:11:08question.

1:11:25>> [laughter]

1:11:29>> It's asking me to sign in

1:11:33or

1:11:46refresh.

1:11:47>> Refresh. You should be good.

1:11:52>> Yeah, it was making you use an Apex and

1:11:54C. So, you should be good now.

1:12:01>> Just refresh.

1:12:11>> Yes.

1:12:25Some of these are

1:12:28>> sorry

1:12:33municipal

1:12:35the legislative policy committees

1:12:37category. So

1:12:38>> they are meant to be brief.

1:12:44specific. Um so for those also listening

1:12:48the categories are diversifying revenue

1:12:50streams

1:12:52authority, state funding and

1:12:54partnerships,

1:12:56general municipal finance

1:13:01and then of the categories

1:13:06the bottom

1:13:08um you you're ranking two.

1:13:11We've got one submission so far,

1:13:19two,

1:13:21three.

1:13:33There's no right or wrong answer.

1:13:34There's also a sheet at your table. Um,

1:13:37I talked about the main question here.

1:13:44For the stars, one star is least

1:13:47concern. That's correct. Five. Okay.

1:13:51>> Yeah,

1:13:54that's right.

1:14:00Anybody else?

1:14:04Move

1:14:08on to the infrastructure focus area.

1:14:19[laughter]

1:14:36I got to keep walking up here.

1:14:39[laughter]

1:14:41>> Okay,

1:14:47>> infrastructure you submitted.

1:14:50as Yes. The last

1:14:53>> This is the new one, right?

1:14:54>> This is the new one. That's right.

1:15:31We have no resp.

1:15:51>> One minute.

1:15:52>> Okay. [laughter]

1:16:01Thank you.

1:16:13>> Next one.

1:16:17>> This a new I have to get used to it.

1:16:22Lots of practice.

1:16:23>> Yeah.

1:16:46That one

1:16:49square to scan it.

1:17:12or four or

1:17:22Disaster

1:17:29relief.

1:17:52ask me to sign

1:17:56>> or

1:17:57>> for this

1:17:59>> uh refresh

1:18:09permission.

1:18:40responses actually housing and community

1:18:43development.

1:19:22We got two.

1:19:25Great.

1:19:32Thank you, bro.

1:20:23local authority in government.

1:20:37>> [laughter]

1:20:39[clears throat]

1:20:40>> You got one more cap.

1:20:57>> Which category?

1:21:00>> Local authority and government.

1:21:02>> Where am I?

1:21:14We

1:21:14>> got four.

1:21:47>> [clears throat]

1:21:52>> The final one is municipal capacity and

1:21:55operations.

1:22:21>> [clears throat]

1:22:46[clears throat]

1:22:58>> You ready?

1:23:00>> Okay, I'm done.

1:23:06Okay. And then I will email these

1:23:09results. Um, is there a motion to

1:23:11designate?

1:23:17>> Second.

1:23:17>> I

1:23:20[clears throat]

1:23:22did not.

1:23:26[laughter]

1:23:27>> I'm

1:23:29okay. and then JP's gonna walk us

1:23:31through kind of our plan.

1:23:33>> All right. So, what you kind of just did

1:23:35here was part of the mun process for

1:23:39what they're doing to kind of refresh

1:23:41their leg agenda. And one of the things

1:23:43that and I have been talking about that

1:23:45we're wanting to get set up is more of a

1:23:48formalized and process for our own

1:23:52internal kind of government relations.

1:23:54Um and the first thing um and main thing

1:23:57that we'll want to establish the start

1:23:59is a cross collaboration team. This will

1:24:02consist of the clerk's office, the

1:24:03manager's office, legal um and

1:24:06representatives from departments across

1:24:08the town. Um and it'll essentially be

1:24:11the central hub for evaluating and

1:24:14discussing legislation particularly

1:24:16during session. Um these will be the

1:24:19folks who the most um going to be a lot

1:24:22of department directors um involved with

1:24:25that. Um but it'll be the people who are

1:24:27providing feedback on pieces of

1:24:29legislation that are in the general

1:24:31assembly. Um we will be giving that

1:24:33feedback to checkmate our lobbying a

1:24:35lobbying group to know exactly where the

1:24:39the kind of pressure points are in

1:24:41certain pieces of legislation.

1:24:43um so they can take that um and do their

1:24:46work with us uh who do their work for us

1:24:49um on behalf of that. So essentially we

1:24:51will act as the uh go between between

1:24:55the lobbyist firm and with this

1:24:59staff members to try and keep

1:25:01communication collaboration very high.

1:25:05Um that's the main thing with the

1:25:06proactive legislation monitoring. Um, we

1:25:08want that to be want to kind of have a

1:25:11mechanism by where staff can provide

1:25:13feedback um and concerns that they may

1:25:16have on pieces of legislation as well as

1:25:18parts of the legislation that they think

1:25:20are beneficial or things that we want uh

1:25:22that we want to inform checkmate of what

1:25:26we want them to be looking for

1:25:29prioritizing. Um, another uh another

1:25:32aspect a public dashboard for impact.

1:25:35This is an idea that that we had floated

1:25:38and are considering. This wouldn't be a

1:25:40position necessarily of the town like

1:25:42whether the town is for or against a

1:25:44certain piece of legislation, but for

1:25:45example um if a piece of legislation has

1:25:48or may potentially have a positive or

1:25:51negative impact, this would be a way um

1:25:54that staff could provide that to us and

1:25:56then we could kind of put it out there

1:25:58as kind of an objective. Here is here is

1:26:00what staff believes the impact of this

1:26:02will be to the town and its operations.

1:26:05just from a kind of transparency

1:26:08perspective there. Um, specifically on

1:26:11the legislative priorities refresh, this

1:26:13is another component that we're going to

1:26:14be wanting to work with this evening on.

1:26:17Um, we're hoping to get kind of a

1:26:19similar schedule to the one you saw

1:26:21before. um something similar to this to

1:26:24you in the next few weeks in regards to

1:26:26what we are wanting to do uh to kind of

1:26:29go through the collaboration process um

1:26:32for the legislative priorities. Uh we

1:26:35want it to be an engaging process across

1:26:38um the elected officials um the staff

1:26:41through this collaboration team and in

1:26:42the community as well. Um, you know, we

1:26:44want to see if we can get something like

1:26:47a survey house in the community, give

1:26:49them some uh some time to digest it,

1:26:51give them give their feedback to us. Um,

1:26:55so that you all have not only staff and

1:26:57your own discussions on it, but you also

1:26:59have an aspect of what the community

1:27:01wants to see um in your legislative

1:27:03priorities approach.

1:27:05Um, and then we're hoping to kind of

1:27:06kind of have that leading into

1:27:09all that leading into kind of the

1:27:10February retreat time frames um either

1:27:14before or during where that where that

1:27:16comes back up to to be refreshed. Um,

1:27:19project funding catalog. Uh, this is

1:27:21another idea that we've had in regards

1:27:23to this cross collaboration team. One of

1:27:25the things that we want to do is put

1:27:26together um essentially a repository of

1:27:30different projects that either in the

1:27:32works or plan to be in the works in the

1:27:35future for the town. Any different

1:27:36department, small projects, big

1:27:38projects, um anything. The main reason

1:27:40we want to have something like this is

1:27:42you want to get information together on

1:27:44project timelines, project funding

1:27:46requirements, what the specifics of the

1:27:48project are, and have that in a central

1:27:50location um for multiple reasons. one so

1:27:53you all can see those projects that we

1:27:56can connect with our legislators on

1:27:58those projects and provide that to them

1:28:00so you hear some of the things that

1:28:01we're planning but we also would have it

1:28:03available when any grant or funding

1:28:06opportunities did come up lots of times

1:28:08those are pretty quick turnarounds as

1:28:11far as when we first learn of them weeks

1:28:13in some cases so we have a lot of this

1:28:16brand work already done we're not having

1:28:17to run around and try to figure out okay

1:28:20you guys have any projects that fall

1:28:21under this we may already a project

1:28:23identified and then we can kind of skip

1:28:25some time and um focus on the

1:28:28application. Um and then finally talk a

1:28:31little bit about legislative daily

1:28:33vision. Um that would be for kind of

1:28:35early part of next year. So typically

1:28:37February March time frame um and what

1:28:40we're we're wanting to do with that is

1:28:42of course invite our legislators at the

1:28:44general assembly potentially federal

1:28:45level to come in. Um, you know, we can

1:28:48always, uh, give a talk with them, you

1:28:50know, have a presentation, but the main

1:28:51thing we really want to focus on is

1:28:53going out into the community, picking a

1:28:55few key projects, um, that we want to

1:28:58highlight for them so that they can see

1:29:01specifically like here is this piece of

1:29:03land or, you know, we're going out to

1:29:05this park. Here's what we're

1:29:07envisioning. having staff and the

1:29:08subject matter experts actually go out

1:29:10there with them along with all all of

1:29:12you um and actually you know see have

1:29:15them see here here's what we're wanting

1:29:16to do it's not just a slide this is the

1:29:18actual location here are the details you

1:29:21know over here here's how we exactly

1:29:23envision this so we're hoping to have

1:29:25you know maybe two or three different

1:29:27projects that we can take them around um

1:29:31Apex to see to kind of give them more of

1:29:33a connection to the actual projects

1:29:35themselves rather than just spreadsheet

1:29:38or a poweroint. And then it also give

1:29:41you an opportunity as we're going around

1:29:43for you all to to be networking with our

1:29:45legislators um and to be strengthen

1:29:47strengthening our relationships with

1:29:49them as [clears throat] they continue to

1:29:50advocate for us. So that's just a brief

1:29:53overview of some of the things that are

1:29:54in the pipeline for our kind of

1:29:56government relations strategy. Is there

1:29:59anything else you wanted?

1:30:02questions.

1:30:06>> Thank you for doing this. This is um you

1:30:08know one of the tough parts about this

1:30:11entire process is working with our

1:30:15legislative legislative actions is

1:30:18making sure that we're much more on the

1:30:19proactive side as opposed to reactive.

1:30:21So, uh, my my thanks to our town clerk

1:30:25and JP for putting this together because

1:30:27it gets us as a town into a different

1:30:30scope when it comes to dealing with

1:30:32these issues. I mean, things like having

1:30:34a legislative day where people get a

1:30:36chance to see the impact of dollars

1:30:38helps them understand that when we're

1:30:40asking for money, this is a specific

1:30:42project that's been done. Here's the

1:30:44specific impact and then getting a

1:30:46chance to see the impact on the

1:30:47community. So it's I I I want to applaud

1:30:50both for for doing this because it may

1:30:53seem like a small point but the impact

1:30:55on this small movement is going to be

1:30:58huge. So thanks thanks for what you did

1:31:01on this.

1:31:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I definitely

1:31:03agree. Especially when the general

1:31:05assembly is back in session, those bills

1:31:07can come through very quickly. Um

1:31:09sometimes they can sit on them for six

1:31:11months and sometimes they shove them

1:31:13through the whole process within a week.

1:31:15So we kind of have to have this

1:31:17background ready so that we are able to

1:31:19respond in situations where things

1:31:21moving very fast. So we have the

1:31:24communication channels established to be

1:31:26able to respond accord.

1:31:29>> I have a question.

1:31:30>> Yeah. So um for this uh league of

1:31:33municipalities

1:31:35they are a organization right? So what's

1:31:40their role um for them you know to uh

1:31:46interact with the state you know uh NC

1:31:50you know uh general assembly to form the

1:31:54good you know um policies to help our

1:31:59municipalities.

1:32:00>> Well I would see them as being another

1:32:02avenue that we utilize you know um as

1:32:05part of our advocacy work. Um, so we

1:32:08have regular check-in calls with the

1:32:10league just like we do our with

1:32:11Checkmate or our or individual

1:32:13lobbyists. Um, if you look at a lot of

1:32:15the municipalities, they they do not

1:32:18have active lobbyists. And so the league

1:32:20is a member-based organization that is

1:32:22advocating for them um from from a

1:32:26statewide perspective. So So they're

1:32:29going to not always focus on legislation

1:32:32that may be specific to Apex. they may

1:32:34help us or have a strategy as it relates

1:32:36to them, but they're going to be looking

1:32:37at um larger sweeping bills that may

1:32:40have an impact across all municipalities

1:32:43or municipalities like I think this past

1:32:45year there was some legislation, you

1:32:46know, counties that are 20,000 or more.

1:32:50And so that's a majority of our counties

1:32:52in North Carolina. So I see them as

1:32:54being more big picture and certainly a

1:32:57partner as we look at this process.

1:33:00generally they uh act like uh lobbyist

1:33:05for the you know almost all

1:33:08municipalities.

1:33:09>> That's right.

1:33:10>> Okay.

1:33:10>> And and this is one the the government

1:33:12relations

1:33:14team if you will at the league is one

1:33:17component of the league. You know they

1:33:19have um comp uh claims kind of a area

1:33:23risk management area. know they have

1:33:25membership engagement where they hold

1:33:27trainings and conferences and those

1:33:29kinds of things. Um and so this

1:33:31government relations is one division if

1:33:33you will of the broader league.

1:33:40>> One quick question day as far as our be

1:33:44part of the

1:33:45>> Yes. Yes. Yes. And the the calendar that

1:33:48kind of started with that the league has

1:33:50developed is is what we're working to

1:33:52put together for this program. And so as

1:33:54we head into um kind of this, we'll have

1:33:57one for the town of Apex so that you can

1:33:59kind of follow along as to where we are

1:34:01at each stage in the process.

1:34:08Good job.

1:34:22>> It's a small.

1:34:26>> First of all, good afternoon, mayor,

1:34:28council. Thank you for having me at the

1:34:30the last moment that I think is very

1:34:33important conversation to have, one that

1:34:35we've been having for many years now.

1:34:37Um, today we're going to talk about a

1:34:40status update. I'm going to go over that

1:34:42really quick and then we'll get into uh

1:34:44grass clippings. Uh, we'll talk about

1:34:46the ordinance amendment uh that we hope

1:34:49to bring on the 22nd council meeting.

1:34:52And then the third bullet point there is

1:34:54related to um

1:34:58the request to check the feasibility of

1:35:00transitioning to a car model. One of

1:35:03those really related to what do you do

1:35:06with co-mingled waste and and where will

1:35:08it be disposed of? That was key factor.

1:35:11U so I'm going to go ahead and get

1:35:12started but I will uh be brief on the

1:35:15ordinance implementation given the time.

1:35:17um transition has gone extremely well

1:35:21really according to the playbook. Um I

1:35:24think the smooth transition that we've

1:35:26had, kudos to our communication staff.

1:35:29They have done a great job. Our internal

1:35:32staff, our drivers have been out there

1:35:35educating residents. Uh one of the

1:35:37things that we did was implement a tax

1:35:39system where hey, your pile was

1:35:41non-compliant. And uh I'll I'll be

1:35:44quick, but in July we issued uh 68

1:35:47non-compliant notices in 52

1:35:50of those 68 uh in July, three resolved

1:35:53themselves in August, five resolved

1:35:56themselves. Uh but overall

1:35:59uh surprisingly um about a third of

1:36:03those 68 tags, actually 26 in July and

1:36:0815 in August, the town collected as a

1:36:12courtesy. We went to the resident, we

1:36:14showed them why their pile was black and

1:36:16white. We helped educate them. That is

1:36:18our whole game plan. We are out here to

1:36:20try to educate the residents and using

1:36:23the tagging system has been very

1:36:25popular. Now, excess waste fees. Um in

1:36:30August we had 20 uh excess waste uh fee

1:36:34collection, $2,480

1:36:36of revenue. And in uh August we had 15,

1:36:41which is about 1,760.

1:36:43Now, surprisingly, you know, we have

1:36:46level one, two, three, and four in two

1:36:48cubic yard increments. Uh, 23 of those

1:36:51fell at the level one. So, uh, out of

1:36:54the 35 total paid piles collected. Um,

1:36:59majority of them, 23 were $80, five of

1:37:03them were $160.

1:37:05Two of them were $240.

1:37:08one level four $320 and one level five

1:37:13$400. So just in that short period of

1:37:16time, we helped residents that had great

1:37:19big piles collect those piles and they

1:37:22were willing to pay. Um very

1:37:24surprisingly, we've had very very little

1:37:27push back. Um most people know of the

1:37:30ordinance. We obviously, as you can

1:37:33expect, have some that didn't know about

1:37:35the ordinance or whatever. Well, those

1:37:36are the ones that we have with the the

1:37:38tax. So, we will continue on how you

1:37:41would get that. Uh we will go ahead and

1:37:44continue uh with the education component

1:37:48as we have uh previously shared with um

1:37:52I plan to do uh depending on uh

1:37:57I guess agenda items and timing maybe

1:38:00about six months in we'll give an update

1:38:02on just kind of how the transition's

1:38:04going. Uh but we can determine that

1:38:06somewhere in the future. Um grass

1:38:09clippings. Um

1:38:12I had prepared the handout there for

1:38:15you. Um this was a last minute deal. I'm

1:38:18afraid that we might run into some time

1:38:21issues, but I wanted to bring this

1:38:23council up to speed of kind of the

1:38:26reality of where we are. Uh I felt like

1:38:30it was important. This is this is not

1:38:33something this council has done. This is

1:38:35just the evolution of where we are as a

1:38:38town, how we managed our grass

1:38:40clippings. Um and so

1:38:44the bottom line is that we recently at

1:38:48the August 11th meeting, uh council did

1:38:52approve a disposal agreement with

1:38:54Liberty Waste Solutions, uh for

1:38:57everything but grass. We felt like we

1:39:00needed to secure everything that we

1:39:03could for a five-year term so we could

1:39:06make the transition to cars. Now,

1:39:10who knows what might happen with

1:39:11markets. If things happen and grass is

1:39:14able to be accepted for any reason or

1:39:16another, then we can bring that back.

1:39:18But we've got to move forward. So, we we

1:39:21need to let you know the realities of

1:39:23where we are um and how we got there.

1:39:26that um as part of that five-year

1:39:29agreement um I do have uh Dan Shields

1:39:33with us. I don't know if it's agreeable

1:39:35if anyone has questions if they can ask

1:39:37a person in the audience but if you need

1:39:39to talk with Mr. Shields you may

1:39:42remember in your August 11th uh packet

1:39:46there was a letter that explained what

1:39:49they did to try to accept grass and it

1:39:52was paragraph five. this point we've

1:39:55made every reasonable effort viable

1:39:57outlet for the grass material though

1:39:59both internal resources North Carolina

1:40:02DEEQ

1:40:04recommended external options and despite

1:40:06those efforts we have not been able to

1:40:08secure a facility willing to accept the

1:40:11material as a result we cannot accept

1:40:13the grass material I will tell you this

1:40:15firm did everything they could to help

1:40:17us they didn't just it wasn't their farm

1:40:20there was other composters around it's

1:40:23just one of those things that is that no

1:40:26one wants you know and the bottom line

1:40:28is we just cannot collect what we can't

1:40:32dispose of. So we have tried to put

1:40:35forward the disposal agreement of what

1:40:37we knew we could land on to keep the

1:40:40program viable and uh again that

1:40:44truthfully is is is the bottom. Um but I

1:40:48detail out a little bit about you know

1:40:50how we got here. um

1:40:54how we four years ago almost five years

1:40:58ago our current disposal outlet limit us

1:41:02to 20 and that's what launched us on

1:41:04this path to try to figure it out and

1:41:07here we are five years later you trying

1:41:10to do our best to figure it out but I

1:41:12think it speaks volumes to staff that's

1:41:15done all that we know to do we've

1:41:17reached out to everyone that we know

1:41:19including you know I and the state,

1:41:23everybody, every person possible compost

1:41:27wise if they could. Um, but I I knew

1:41:31that I preached this message and I've

1:41:34shared it with you. It is real now. We

1:41:37we're trying to move forward. We can't

1:41:40keep looking hoping that we can take a

1:41:42place. We have to have guarantees. So,

1:41:45we've got guarantees on everything but

1:41:48grass. So, what we're asking for still,

1:41:52as we discussed at the February

1:41:55workshop, is to go ahead at the council

1:41:57meeting on the 22nd is to go ahead and

1:42:00bring forward that ordinance amendment

1:42:03to eliminate grass effective January 1

1:42:07of 2027.

1:42:09Um, so that's why we wanted to come here

1:42:11and provide the details and have Mr.

1:42:14shields here in case you have anything

1:42:17related to to that time. Um,

1:42:21but it's it's it's difficult.

1:42:24I know we've tried, but the town

1:42:29infrastructure was never built to do

1:42:33accept this, process it, dispose of it,

1:42:36transfer it, and you can't make that

1:42:39happen overnight. We have tried to get a

1:42:42yard waste just a transfer yard for two

1:42:44years now here internally and it's still

1:42:47going through the process. There are deq

1:42:49[clears throat]

1:42:50permits. There's a whole lot to it and

1:42:53we just can't flip a switch and get

1:42:55someone to take. We're super fortunate

1:42:58that we do have uh uh our disposal

1:43:01partner right here in our jurisdiction,

1:43:04which saves all the time and fuel,

1:43:07eliminates the need to have to have a

1:43:09transfer yard, eliminates the need to

1:43:12truck transfer great big loads somewhere

1:43:15else, not only of of grass material if

1:43:18we could accept it, but all types of

1:43:20yards. So, this this agreement really

1:43:24five years helps put us on really the

1:43:26truthful path trying to priceize this. I

1:43:30realize

1:43:32that you would like a different outcome

1:43:34with it. We've tried all we can do.

1:43:37That's just the reality. But I'm happy

1:43:40to take any questions on that part

1:43:42before we go to the feasibility

1:43:44alignment. If you've got questions about

1:43:47grass as next steps

1:43:55>> and shields

1:43:57you come up here,

1:44:01>> right? Thank you.

1:44:08>> My question is

1:44:09>> yeah Dan Shields Liberty We Solutions.

1:44:12Glad to be here and answer whatever

1:44:14questions I can.

1:44:15>> So, give us just an overview of what you

1:44:17do with Liberty, what your current

1:44:19relationship with with Apex is before we

1:44:21get to the past question.

1:44:22>> Sure. Uh, vice president sales and

1:44:24marketing and uh my uh partner Rick is

1:44:29the one who manages our post collection

1:44:31operations including transfer station

1:44:33here at Apex as well as our lands.

1:44:35>> So, he was heavily involved in this

1:44:37process too.

1:44:38>> Our trucks take it to your

1:44:39transportation. your trucks will take it

1:44:42to auto.

1:44:43>> Yes. On 500 Christine.

1:44:46>> Uh great. So can you talk a little bit

1:44:48about respect to the industry and what's

1:44:50going on with brass and why this is such

1:44:52a big deal and why is it a big deal for

1:44:56>> Yeah. So um brass itself requires a

1:44:59different type of processing yard. Brass

1:45:02needs to be composted. It can't be mixed

1:45:05in with mulch like the rest of the yard

1:45:07waste can. We don't have a composting

1:45:10facility or operation in our footprint

1:45:12but also at impact. So we can't take in

1:45:15the product because we can't process it

1:45:17correctly. Therefore, we don't take it

1:45:19in at all. There are other facilities

1:45:22that do composting. Shamrock McGill,

1:45:26they're two of the ones that we

1:45:27contacted when we try to find an outlet

1:45:29for your grass. They're at capacity.

1:45:31They don't want anymore. So, we can't

1:45:34take it in because we can't process it.

1:45:36we can't take it in and transport it to

1:45:38somewhere else because we couldn't find

1:45:40an outlet for it. Therefore, it's just

1:45:42an unacceptable material for us to have.

1:45:47>> To follow up on that question, I we can

1:45:49pretty much envision that basically all

1:45:51the John and we can pretty much envision

1:45:54that, you know, neighbor neighboring

1:45:56communities that are still blowing

1:45:57grass, they're they're looking at the

1:45:59same type of that we're on right now.

1:46:03>> Yeah,

1:46:04absolutely. We've had conversations with

1:46:06all of them. Uh

1:46:09some of the folks that he talked to

1:46:11about the other facilities had already

1:46:13contract that capacity. We tried to

1:46:16contract that capacity. What happened?

1:46:18Uh

1:46:20I think what's happening is just because

1:46:23we didn't have the infrastructure, we

1:46:25were forced to to deal with it. I think

1:46:28it's a matter of time most likely. Dan,

1:46:31he's in that industry. He'll know better

1:46:33than I. But I think it's just the

1:46:35timing, you know, putting our best foot

1:46:38forward and not just hops skipping.

1:46:41We've got to have disposal comp

1:46:44to make our capital plant normal.

1:46:48>> Yeah. To just follow up with your point,

1:46:49[clears throat] some of these other

1:46:50places already had contracts in place,

1:46:52which is why the composting places are

1:46:54at capacity. So it is just a matter of

1:46:57time.

1:46:58>> So if their contracts aren't expired,

1:47:00then they're going to be right back in

1:47:02the same position that we are in. But

1:47:05we'll at least be ahead of the game on

1:47:06them because we have a piece of plan for

1:47:10five years. We'll beat them to the

1:47:13punch.

1:47:15>> What What is the specific problem or the

1:47:18difference with grass versus other yards

1:47:20that might can not be mixed or no

1:47:22longer?

1:47:23>> Sure. Great question. Um, grass

1:47:26clippings themselves a often have a high

1:47:28level of, you know, pesticides or

1:47:30herbicides in it. Uh, b it often can go

1:47:33to seed. Um, so when it's mixed in with

1:47:36mulch, there are two of the main issues.

1:47:39It's actually illegal to mix in grass

1:47:42clippings with our mulch and then resell

1:47:44it. It has to go through a separate

1:47:46processing essentially compost. So

1:47:49there's that. That's why there's the

1:47:51separation between yard waste and

1:47:53specifically grass clippings. Um,

1:47:55including the extreme amount of volume

1:47:57generated. Look, we get it. People show

1:47:59up. There's a couple of grass clippings

1:48:01here and there. When you're talking tons

1:48:03of material showing up, that's just that

1:48:06needs to have specific dedicated

1:48:07resources to process it. Correct.

1:48:13>> John, you you you did mention you

1:48:16alluded to, but do we as a town have the

1:48:20ability to go out and create this

1:48:23ability just to store our own grass

1:48:27someplace.

1:48:28>> No. So, we are trying to get a transfer

1:48:30yard in the event they would have uh any

1:48:33downtime or anybody. So, the town needs

1:48:35to be prepared in case we've got to

1:48:37store some material. So, we're trying to

1:48:38get a transfer yard. That's just for the

1:48:41transfer. It still has to go somewhere

1:48:43else which is machinery and equipment

1:48:45permits. Um you still have to have the

1:48:49composting part of it. Problem we have

1:48:52is that's a mixture. That's feed stock.

1:48:54How much grass, how much uh woody

1:48:57material, how much leaf material. And

1:49:00most towns cannot do it. Raleigh is able

1:49:03to do it. But there to Dan's point, you

1:49:05can use grass and mix it a little bit

1:49:08and make dirt. At the end of the day, a

1:49:09soil amendment is is off. But the

1:49:12problem we would have is just

1:49:14scalability

1:49:15and uh it would be so expensive.

1:49:19in my opinion to even try to go that

1:49:23>> and you wouldn't want to store grass

1:49:25clippings without the compost facility.

1:49:27Grass clippings themselves create heat

1:49:29and that creates fire hazard over time.

1:49:32That's why if you've ever seen like

1:49:34composting facilities, they're

1:49:35constantly turning the piles over so

1:49:38that it dissipates the heat that's

1:49:40creating it. If it's stored by itself

1:49:42for a period of time, it itself will

1:49:44create a fire hazard.

1:49:52Thank you.

1:49:53>> Thank you.

1:49:55Thank you.

1:49:56>> But I I knew that it would be very

1:49:58beneficial for council know how we got

1:50:00here. We've just been able to limp

1:50:02along, but we've grown so fast. So just

1:50:05think five years how much we've grown

1:50:07when we first got first notice of

1:50:10limitations

1:50:11on unwillingness to take but just ex my

1:50:14loss. Um

1:50:15>> I do have questions. Yes.

1:50:20>> Yeah. Okay. Um the next item that I want

1:50:24to talk to you about is um

1:50:27requested action on the transition to uh

1:50:31yard waste containers. We're at a

1:50:34inflection point where budget needs to

1:50:36know for starting the capital plan what

1:50:39the direction is. Now during the

1:50:41workshop uh you basically approved our

1:50:44option two which was a phased approach

1:50:47to this where we've already got budgeted

1:50:50uh half of the truck assets in the

1:50:52current budget. We don't want to pull

1:50:55the trigger on that until we know that

1:50:56council's in alignment and intends to uh

1:51:01uh address it in the budget session. So

1:51:03we talked with uh attorney Welch and he

1:51:07said that right now all that was being

1:51:09required is just formal authorization to

1:51:12move forward. The other reason is we

1:51:14want to plan our messaging our

1:51:17communication. So it's important not

1:51:18only on budget but for communications uh

1:51:22that we have that direction that yes

1:51:24council is is ready to move forward to

1:51:26containerization. So in and I could have

1:51:30it wrong, but I believe the essence of

1:51:33of the February meeting, I believe it

1:51:36was February retreat, was that that

1:51:38council wanted to study the feasibility

1:51:41of the transition. And the big component

1:51:44for me that I knew that you would need

1:51:45to know, we needed a commitment to be

1:51:48able to take the containerized yard

1:51:51weights. We now have a contract in place

1:51:54and a PO has been issued with a fiveyear

1:51:58uh agreement. So that part is is great.

1:52:01We can easily transition.

1:52:03Um but we need your direction uh to be

1:52:07able to to do this. Whether this is this

1:52:11meeting, which I know it could be, or if

1:52:13it's preferable for the 22nd, that would

1:52:16be council's prerogative. What we would

1:52:18like to try to have is at least a verbal

1:52:21approval to transition the containers.

1:52:24Now, happy to answer any questions. I

1:52:26think we've we've talked a lot about

1:52:29this in previous sessions and I think

1:52:31that's where we are certainly headed but

1:52:34I just need to be available to answer

1:52:37any questions to try to see if we can't

1:52:38get that through

1:52:44just seem consistent with what we have

1:52:46previously discussed and the direction

1:52:48that we have

1:52:50any

1:52:55two things that first off um question uh

1:53:0095 gallon park is that one per property.

1:53:05>> It is

1:53:07when I have more

1:53:09uh yard waste than just 95 gallon

1:53:13>> residents can can have other parts and

1:53:16remember we now have special collection.

1:53:18So if for some reason you needed an

1:53:20additional collection and you didn't

1:53:22have enough to go through, the town

1:53:24could work with you on collecting any

1:53:26excess yard waste. But residents can

1:53:30order one is just standing, but just

1:53:32like you can have a lot of residents

1:53:35have two recycle carts, some residents

1:53:38have two trash carts, but that's

1:53:41completely one is what's issued, but the

1:53:43residents have the option of getting

1:53:45more, but they could have

1:53:48One second. Thank

1:53:51the followups on that. Um they actually

1:53:54kind of go opposite directions. Um one

1:53:58is

1:54:01are neighboring municipalities. How many

1:54:03parks are folks allowed to have a

1:54:06program like?

1:54:06>> I I think uh I think Raleigh just

1:54:10through the capital I think they limit

1:54:12it to two.

1:54:13>> Okay.

1:54:13>> Uh my neighbor has two in Holl Springs.

1:54:16And I don't know if Holly Springs has a

1:54:17limit, but my neighbor has one for his

1:54:19front yard, backyard.

1:54:21>> Yeah, I was just in Kerry over the

1:54:24weekend and my and I saw

1:54:27some houses four carts out.

1:54:30>> Um, is that an additional charge in

1:54:33this?

1:54:34>> It is. It might be like the same monthly

1:54:36fee for whatever uh same service.

1:54:40Um,

1:54:41>> the next question is um for the HOAs.

1:54:46uh that have restrictions on parks. Um

1:54:53what

1:54:54what um process do you have there?

1:54:58Because obviously I can imagine living

1:55:00in a neighborhood where I have um

1:55:05perhaps even limited uh uh space in

1:55:09terms of my propert. My my property

1:55:13right now is.187

1:55:15acres which probably count square feet,

1:55:17right? And so there's very little space

1:55:20for additional carts. Um I could

1:55:23probably find a place in my house. Um

1:55:26but I know some neighbors not too far,

1:55:30literally a stones throw that would have

1:55:32difficulty complying with HOA

1:55:35restrictions and also being part of this

1:55:38program. So what help me reconcile how

1:55:43we roll that out in a way that's that's

1:55:46um Medusa.

1:55:47>> Sure. I think I I shared the example of

1:55:50Holly Springs and 12 Oaks where we met

1:55:52with their HOA board and what they did

1:55:55is they granted a year to enlarge

1:55:58enclosures. They had actually one vendor

1:56:00that came in and helped people up up fit

1:56:03it. Even though it sounds like much,

1:56:06it's not much longer than this thing.

1:56:08That that's real. I get it. But most of

1:56:12the time you can fit in your corral. Uh

1:56:16some of them are already built in with

1:56:18maybe a foot extra width. So it doesn't

1:56:20take long to wide it. That's if their

1:56:22HOA requires screening and it has to be

1:56:26screened. But uh what 12 Oaks HOA board

1:56:30has just had a year that was you know

1:56:32you had a year to get in compliance. So

1:56:34they they were supportive of the

1:56:36ordinance. But that's just one of those

1:56:38things we'll talk with HOAs. We'll make

1:56:40it work. And so that was going to be my

1:56:42recommendation is just um a proactive

1:56:46um upfront won't use the word aggressive

1:56:50but um uh highly responsive um education

1:56:55and um

1:56:58negotiation campaign.

1:56:59>> Absolutely. And our communications can

1:57:02certainly help us with that. And I'm

1:57:04always thinking that in terms of HOA

1:57:06board meetings and neighborhood uh uh

1:57:10meetings at club houses and things where

1:57:11people can you know see in the flesh and

1:57:14ask the questions.

1:57:16>> That's the best way. Absolutely.

1:57:18Community engagement. I see Brian's hand

1:57:19up too. We just kicked off what's it

1:57:21called again?

1:57:23>> Neighborhood program. So we are more

1:57:26than happy to support that. We already

1:57:27do our neighborhood meetings. Um we make

1:57:30a point to make sure that we are

1:57:32proactively meeting

1:57:33around. So, I'm actually emailing you

1:57:36now.

1:57:43>> The neighborhood leaders program is like

1:57:45an HOA of HOA

1:57:48>> for anyone who doesn't know that

1:57:54>> you had a question.

1:57:56>> Okay, you're done. Okay.

1:57:59So my question is um some residents who

1:58:03if they request two cars right so their

1:58:06monthly face things will be double

1:58:10>> it just be for the cart other words each

1:58:12cart have its own fee

1:58:15>> uh or yardway service will have its own

1:58:18fee. Now, one thing that we do have the

1:58:20opportunity because it is another budget

1:58:23cycle, we can work with our budget team

1:58:25to see what that that car is, it could

1:58:28it's typically the same because of the

1:58:31complexities in billing, utility billing

1:58:34system, the way our trash works now and

1:58:36recycling, it's extra cart. The second

1:58:40one is just however many you get. I

1:58:42anticipate it'll be that way, but

1:58:43there's always the opportunity to work

1:58:45with our budget team to see if there's a

1:58:47better

1:58:48>> Oh, okay. The charge is just for uh the

1:58:52second cart

1:58:53>> and our um public um works department

1:58:59will pick up if that they have two cars

1:59:01just pick up two cars without extra

1:59:04cost.

1:59:05>> That's right.

1:59:06>> That's good to know.

1:59:08>> What if three cars the same?

1:59:10>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.

1:59:11>> Okay. We are happy to pick it up. So

1:59:13it's a onetime charge.

1:59:15>> It it's basically per cart. So what

1:59:17happens is they get the cart

1:59:19>> and we are on it. It's you know your

1:59:22build month. So we just come every time

1:59:25it's collected.

1:59:26>> But it's per cart charge,

1:59:28>> right? It is a per cart charge.

1:59:31>> There's a monthly fee. If I have two

1:59:33cards, I pay more than one.

1:59:35>> That is correct.

1:59:37>> Yes.

1:59:38>> Monthly fee for each cart.

1:59:39>> Yes, ma'am.

1:59:41Okay.

1:59:41>> And that's standard pretty much anywhere

1:59:43you go as part.

1:59:45>> Okay.

1:59:45>> Based on if you want more, you just pay

1:59:51question

2:00:05>> I don't understand charges

2:00:08charges.

2:00:10implications. We stop collecting grass,

2:00:14>> we pay on a per ton. So, so basically uh

2:00:18you will see a reduction in our overall

2:00:21disposal which helps us bridge the gap

2:00:24of our cost.

2:00:26You're buying less fuel, you know,

2:00:28you're stopping. You still have yard

2:00:30waste, but you don't have the tonnage in

2:00:32the volume and we pay tons. So part of

2:00:34getting this program rightsized

2:00:38is is factoring that already. Uh again,

2:00:41as we get into budget planning, once we

2:00:44launch and we see what our disposal

2:00:46numbers are, that's going to be a direct

2:00:48budget impact.

2:00:49>> But our our yard waste charges prior to

2:00:52the current budget year less than full

2:00:54cost.

2:00:55>> Exactly. So this bridge

2:00:57>> we raised up this help avoid cost is

2:01:02increasing less.

2:01:06>> Correct.

2:01:09>> Okay. We've got communications now. Not

2:01:12sure who's going to be doing that with

2:01:13those stacies. Great.

2:01:16Come on down.

2:01:21>> We said you have 10 minutes like 10

2:01:23consecutive minutes. [laughter]

2:01:25I don't know. 10 a piece, 10 per person.

2:01:28>> I'm just going to skip what we are

2:01:30really interested in right now, which is

2:01:33letting our residents know

2:01:35service and that starts in October. So,

2:01:37midocctober. So, for our

2:01:41skip through to the to the different

2:01:43slide. So, uh the first round of

2:01:45communications really heavily involved

2:01:47in our ordinance changes. So, le or limb

2:01:49size and pile size, things like that.

2:01:51So, we're communicating heavily on like

2:01:53one of four topics um at a time. Of

2:01:57course, we're talking about everything

2:01:58at once, but really focusing in on these

2:02:01four separate topics all at once. So,

2:02:02that we've already done that. The

2:02:04airways ordinances um that happened in

2:02:06July. That was a major communication.

2:02:09This next emphasis is moving to bi

2:02:12collection. So, October 19th begins our

2:02:14B connection. We have a draft of the

2:02:17postcard that we're still revising for

2:02:19you guys. We'll send that out. um in the

2:02:21next few days after we get that final

2:02:23revision done. Um but letting people

2:02:25know uh there's two specific seasons for

2:02:27yard waste. There's a peak leave season

2:02:30um though and at that point you have an

2:02:32assigned week and your collection can

2:02:34happen at any time that week. So you're

2:02:36going to want to put your your waist out

2:02:38on Monday morning. But during regular

2:02:40season, which is most of the year during

2:02:42less volume, you're you will have an

2:02:44assigned collection day and your

2:02:45assigned collection day might that it is

2:02:47now might change. So there's a map

2:02:49resource um that we're going to be

2:02:52pointing our residents to making sure

2:02:53that they're signed up right next either

2:02:56through the mobile app or the website to

2:02:58ensure that they're receiving

2:02:59information directly from schedule. So

2:03:02bi-weekly collection is our big big

2:03:03thing right now. And then we will move

2:03:06to as we move towards the grass season,

2:03:09we'll really start hitting on

2:03:13collection at that point and then we'll

2:03:16do a reminder campaign in spring when

2:03:18people really start getting out in their

2:03:19yards and then we'll start start talking

2:03:22about carts whenever that comes into

2:03:24play. But those were the major themes.

2:03:28Of course, they were talking about all

2:03:29of those topics the whole way through.

2:03:31um they're really hitting home with

2:03:33certain topics during those

2:03:37questions about communication.

2:03:39Can we continue to hammer in the

2:03:41distinction between yard waste and

2:03:44grass? Because I think people think yard

2:03:46waste sometimes you're thinking grass

2:03:48and I know internally because we've been

2:03:51conditioned as well.

2:03:54>> We we talk in terms of yard waste

2:03:56understanding what that grass something

2:03:58else but I'm not sure we're conveying

2:04:01that to

2:04:04a good point. maybe an area.

2:04:06>> It's been kind of a gray area, no open

2:04:09intended, um that we're really sure

2:04:12grass

2:04:14and so now for sure we will make sure to

2:04:16separate um

2:04:19material.

2:04:23[laughter]

2:04:25>> Okay. Um just to be clear so by weekly

2:04:29collection

2:04:30um just for normal seasons but during

2:04:34the peak seasons right we collect more

2:04:37frequently we are going to start

2:04:39bi-weekly collection which is every

2:04:40other week um starting October 19th

2:04:43until the end of time. So that is the

2:04:46whole year through now moving to every

2:04:48other week during peak leaf season. um

2:04:52your your collection might be sort of at

2:04:55any time that week that you're assigned

2:04:57be. But during regular season, you will

2:04:59have an assigned day. It'll say

2:05:01Wednesday is your day. You should put

2:05:03your waist out. No earlier than 48 hours

2:05:06before.

2:05:07>> Okay. Just a black spot during the

2:05:10>> Yeah. I think the volume like we can't

2:05:12exactly guarantee it's going to be

2:05:13Monday or Wednesday or Tuesday.

2:05:14>> Okay. Got it. Yeah. Thank you.

2:05:16[clears throat] And we have we have two

2:05:19items planned for the 22nd,

2:05:21>> right?

2:05:22>> Yes. Uh the ordinance uh on the 22nd,

2:05:26the ordinance uh to eliminate grass

2:05:29effective uh January 1st, 2027. You may

2:05:33remember it was actually in the May 28th

2:05:36agenda and we we pulled it. It's the

2:05:39same basically it's the same ordinance.

2:05:42So we're bringing that forth on the 22nd

2:05:44for action. and then the uh path to uh

2:05:49transition to yard waste car. So those

2:05:51two items will be your uh requested on

2:05:56the 22.

2:05:58>> Can you say it again? Everyone can hear

2:06:00how leave collection work.

2:06:02>> How is leave collection going to work?

2:06:04So basically everyone puts out their

2:06:06leaves on either their awe beginning

2:06:08October 19th and the following week is

2:06:11the B week uh and then we flip flop

2:06:15according to the schedule

2:06:16>> on the curb or in the containers.

2:06:19>> What's that?

2:06:19>> On the curb or in the containers?

2:06:21>> We won't have containers yet.

2:06:23>> When we do have

2:06:24>> But when we do have containers, we do

2:06:26both.

2:06:27>> When we have containers, we want you

2:06:30early and often to put your leaves out.

2:06:32>> You got some overflow. You got it. We're

2:06:35going to do both.

2:06:38>> Yes. Yes. Now, you know, some some

2:06:41communities have gone to just carps only

2:06:44and uh it just depends on the lots. You

2:06:48know, if you've got a a lot, they're

2:06:50just not going to fit the carp. But you

2:06:51will be surprised how leaves push down

2:06:55if you just push them down. If you don't

2:06:56try to push them down, you don't get any

2:06:59if you keep pushing, pushing, pushing.

2:07:01But the hope is that first initial

2:07:05when they drop and it's weather

2:07:06dependent. Uh when they drop, take

2:07:09advantage of your collection, your

2:07:11bi-weekly collection. So every time

2:07:13we're there to collect, have it out,

2:07:16have it out, have it out. And then what

2:07:18happens is the leaf start, depends on

2:07:20the type of trees, it starts to Wayne.

2:07:23Your cart just picks in. Sucker trucks

2:07:26don't have to work as hard. They're

2:07:27still out. But the carts would then uh

2:07:31would would be ineffective.

2:07:34>> Um you said both. I mean either uh

2:07:38curbside or clean the cart.

2:07:42So I guess some people may just like to

2:07:46put the curb side.

2:07:48>> Yeah. Because we've got the vacuum

2:07:50trucks.

2:07:52There may be people that don't even put

2:07:54their car because they know we're going

2:07:56to be vacuum. But we realize there'll be

2:07:59smaller lots who will not have the

2:08:01volume. So then we come in and do that

2:08:04too. But we're we're also

2:08:08I want to say they're less reliable, but

2:08:09going forward relying more on carts and

2:08:13less on

2:08:14>> the trucks and suck up. So if you are

2:08:17someone that chooses to do that, that

2:08:19service may not be as reliable as the

2:08:22service or the carts.

2:08:24>> Correct. So carts, we anticipate picking

2:08:26those up all the time. Relief trucks,

2:08:28we've had a lot of maintenance issues

2:08:29with those. They go down. So you may

2:08:31have these out in front of your house

2:08:32longer if you are relying on that. It's

2:08:36fair enough.

2:08:37>> That's perfect. Well,

2:08:38>> you may have some seniors, they prefer,

2:08:41but just cur.

2:08:45Yeah. So probably do we have um a plan

2:08:49that if you know some senior they call

2:08:52said we just show them please make sure

2:08:56your volume truck just to come by and

2:08:58pick the yard

2:09:00>> and you know it'll be once we get

2:09:01transition it'll be a learning curve but

2:09:03I think we'll truly dial in we'll know

2:09:06what neighborhoods are typically heavier

2:09:08on on the leaves as far as where we've

2:09:10got to use that leaf act but I think

2:09:13you'll see some people that like to roll

2:09:16If you rake your le if you use a blower,

2:09:18that's one thing. But if you rake,

2:09:20you're going to rake and have them way

2:09:21over there and you kind of hit them with

2:09:22the road, you're going to roll that cart

2:09:24that pile. I did it last year. It's

2:09:26great because you just put your leaves

2:09:29at the point of collection, push them

2:09:32down, go to your next pile. Um, but for

2:09:35those that blow, we we understand that

2:09:37they'll just blow them out. So,

2:09:39>> can I ask about composting?

2:09:41>> Sorry.

2:09:41>> I know composting. Um, are there any

2:09:44services that you've seen? And this

2:09:45comes back like 20 years ago different

2:09:48states. We had yard waste containers.

2:09:52They also store food in it. So, it's a

2:09:53compost,

2:09:54>> too.

2:09:57Off of that.

2:09:58>> Great segue. So, we have had

2:10:01conversations with compost. Now, as you

2:10:04know, they're the provider around us in

2:10:07Kerry and everywhere else. uh they've

2:10:10been interested in is Apex interested in

2:10:13a food waste, you know, thing. First of

2:10:14all, they can already I think they

2:10:16actually have customers in Apex who

2:10:19subscribe to their service.

2:10:21>> Yeah, we we've told them about our

2:10:25issues with with grass collection and

2:10:28food waste and everything.

2:10:31I would not be surprised

2:10:33if they don't potentially consider

2:10:37offering

2:10:39food waste doortodoor subscription and

2:10:43maybe bagged grass potentially

2:10:47for those that just do not want to grass

2:10:50cycle that'll be expensive and it'll be

2:10:53an option and I can't speak for a

2:10:56private company but we have we have

2:10:59encouraged them to consider could it be

2:11:02part of their subscription model to

2:11:05offer a service that service to

2:11:07residents that truly do not, you know,

2:11:10want to deal with. Now, as you see in

2:11:13the handout, remember that contractors

2:11:15[clears throat] are uh required to

2:11:18remove their grass clippings already.

2:11:21This would just be an extension for

2:11:23those folks that don't use a contractor

2:11:25that want to do it themselves, that

2:11:27haven't tried mulching. I think if

2:11:29people try mulching, they'll find out

2:11:32they don't really want to pay to to have

2:11:35someone pick up a bag of grass, but

2:11:38that's a private business that, you

2:11:40know, I'm not involved in. But I do

2:11:42think the light bulb has gone off that

2:11:45they it might be their segway to get

2:11:47food place business, you know, but

2:11:50they've got to work out what to do with

2:11:54it as well. And that's the whole

2:11:56dilemma. They've all got that problem.

2:11:59But if a private contractor has a way to

2:12:02deal with it, that that's great if

2:12:04someone wants to subscribe to that type

2:12:07of service. So we are we are having

2:12:11conversations around that just just

2:12:14opening up options for

2:12:18serving as a resource.

2:12:22Appreciate the hard work on this. I

2:12:24think it's always important to remind

2:12:27those who are there but those in the

2:12:29room that this has been a four and a

2:12:31half year long runway that we've been

2:12:33on. And to be absolutely clear, if we

2:12:37had the choice of not doing anything and

2:12:39maintaining status quo, probably would

2:12:41have done that because it's a lot

2:12:44easier. The tough part is if we collect

2:12:47it and don't have any place to put it,

2:12:50we've got a problem and we can't collect

2:12:54because we don't have a place to put it.

2:12:56And I know that the tough part I

2:12:59appreciate the work that you you guys

2:13:01have all been doing with, you know,

2:13:03talking to neighbors about the yard

2:13:05waste and letting them know about the

2:13:07size of piles and stuff like that

2:13:09because it's I think it's making a a big

2:13:12difference when people are saying, "Oh,

2:13:14I didn't I always thought I just leave

2:13:16this pile of lumber out here and you

2:13:19guys would just take care of it." So,

2:13:20the one-on-one communications, I know

2:13:22one of my neighbors in particular, had

2:13:24conversations and literally was like, I

2:13:27didn't know that was a thing.

2:13:28>> Yeah.

2:13:29>> So, and and you guys ended up taking

2:13:31away. So, it's those one-on-one

2:13:34communications are absolutely key. And I

2:13:36know even though we're geographic, it's

2:13:38about

2:13:39>> taking the time to do that. It's it's

2:13:41not only critical and important, but

2:13:43something you guys take it seriously.

2:13:44So, my hats off to you on that. I think

2:13:47it's going to be incumbent upon us as

2:13:49council to make sure that we are singing

2:13:52and talking about this transition

2:13:55because the thing that is I think the

2:13:58most divisive component is if there's

2:14:01the idea that someone is saying well you

2:14:04know I I don't really like it but you

2:14:07know it's something that we've got to do

2:14:08or or well you know I wish we didn't

2:14:10have to change as well. I think the uni

2:14:13unonymity of voice will ultimately help

2:14:16you guys out with this because this

2:14:18isn't a decision that is being made

2:14:20simply because we're just looking for

2:14:22something to do. I mean, this is a okay,

2:14:25we got a runway that's been on for four

2:14:28and a half years. We've been trying to

2:14:29figure out every way of not having to

2:14:31deal with it and now we've got to deal

2:14:34with it. the plan that you're giving us

2:14:36is I think not only a fair one, but I

2:14:39think gives us a great deal of certainty

2:14:41economically, but I think also is gonna

2:14:44ensure that we're maintaining our role

2:14:46as being good environmental stewards.

2:14:48So, I think the way that you've got this

2:14:51is on the right track. It's up to each

2:14:54one of us to get out there and you know,

2:14:56I've had those conversations. My name is

2:14:58I know you guys had conversations with

2:14:59me. Why aren't you picking up my grass?

2:15:02Start to explain you know, they don't

2:15:05have a place to put it, things of that

2:15:06nature. It's that one-on-one

2:15:08communication that makes a big

2:15:10difference. But this is a change for

2:15:11everybody. But I think, you know, based

2:15:15on what you guys have done, this is a

2:15:17change for the better. And all changes

2:15:19come, but this is one of those changes

2:15:21that I think in the long run are more

2:15:24useful for all of us, but it maintain

2:15:26our environmental safety standards and

2:15:28make sure that we're, you know, it's a

2:15:30great place to live. And for anybody who

2:15:33is looking for an Eagle Scout project, I

2:15:35am 90% sure that you create an Eagle

2:15:37Scout project to collect yard waste and

2:15:40to put leaves for your neighbors or just

2:15:42be a neighbor. Pick up your neighbor's

2:15:44leaves. I do it.

2:15:45>> That's why I'm backwards.

2:15:48>> Well, I thank you for that. And uh you

2:15:50know, I realize it's going to be a tough

2:15:52decision. I realize it's pace set this

2:15:55morning, but I will also say look at the

2:15:57sustainability

2:15:59and people mulch their grass. Half off

2:16:02are already doing it. No commercial

2:16:05landscaper that I know that's outing

2:16:07yards have a bag on their just don't see

2:16:10it. They're using mulch. So I truly

2:16:13think that the adoption will come. I

2:16:16think they'll be, you know, pushed back

2:16:19as as we intend, but I think moving

2:16:22forward, it is such a positive step.

2:16:26Even just the aesthetics, just having

2:16:28that on the curb, just imagine what that

2:16:29looks like for. But it's it's the the

2:16:34most sustainable economic

2:16:37best thing I think.

2:16:40>> Thank you for that.

2:16:43>> Thank you. Any other business? Assuming

2:16:46that was a long 10

2:16:55Second.