2026-10-15 - Environmental Advisory Board

13:29Mhm.

15:24>> Mhm.

19:22>> No.

19:22>> No. Okay.

19:24Um all right, it is Good evening. It is

19:276:06. We're [clears throat] going to

19:29pick up where we left.

19:31Um

19:33See.

19:35So, first thing on the agenda,

19:37we are going to approve

19:40um minutes for August 20,

19:43for September 17,

19:45and for the tree planting sub committee

19:49minutes from August 24, 2026.

19:54>> I'm going to make that change.

19:55>> Okay.

19:57Um

19:57I can second that.

19:59>> Under discussion, I have a correction

20:02from

20:02the September 17

20:06EAB minutes,

20:07each and line 28,

20:11uh I was referring to August monitoring,

20:14EAB monitoring, either as the

20:17transcription said homeowner monitoring.

20:20>> So, I think that's correct.

20:22>> I have a correction.

20:25>> [clears throat]

20:30>> Do you

20:31uh I have a motion to approve the

20:33correction?

20:35>> Thank you. Motion to approve the minutes

20:38with Suzanne's correction

20:40included.

20:42>> Okay.

20:43>> Second.

20:45>> All in favor?

20:46>> Aye.

20:46>> Aye.

20:47>> Aye.

20:48>> Passes.

20:50Um

20:50next thing on our agenda, uh subject

20:53public hearing.

20:55On the

20:56Bill Dan,

20:58um

20:59Bill Dan, good evening.

21:00>> It's up

21:01here.

21:01>> Yeah, if you can

21:03state your name and address for the

21:05record, please.

21:07>> I was told that you can hear me but it

21:08won't be on the camera.

21:10>> I'll be putting you on the camera.

21:11>> You can stand You can have like circle

21:12on the ceiling. That's a mic.

21:14So, you want to stand there to be picked

21:16up well, and then you

21:18facing.

21:18>> Okay, sure.

21:20Somewhere around here?

21:21>> Yeah, right in here. That's good.

21:23>> Okay.

21:24I'm going to set my timer as well.

21:27I'm Bill Dean.

21:29I'm Bill Dean. I live at um 2556 People

21:32Grant Drive in New Hill.

21:34And um

21:36Welcome to the new board members. There

21:37were a couple uh I think for the data

21:39center meeting.

21:41Uh subcommittees. So, I'm here to

21:42discuss uh subcommittee

21:45uh data center meetings um that have not

21:47been very well publicized, attended or

21:50attended, and only recently have they

21:52been recorded for review.

21:54I missed the meeting on water topics,

21:55which is my specialty,

21:57which was not recorded, and I would like

21:58to have gone been able to be there gone

22:00over it.

22:02Why should the public bother attending

22:03subcommittee meetings when we're not

22:05allowed to speak nor have copies of

22:07slides or documents that are provided to

22:09the board? It's much easier for us to

22:11wait for the YouTube video if it gets

22:13recorded.

22:14Recall the AAB committee voted to

22:17approve the Ateli

22:19application

22:20last November immediately after develop

22:23the developer made a slide presentation

22:26but with no public input.

22:28On September 18th, 2025,

22:31about 13 months ago,

22:33I attended a small Apex planning meeting

22:37discussing the Ateli application.

22:41Diane, the planning manager,

22:44said the town needed to hire a noise

22:47expert as soon as possible

22:48because one is not available on staff.

22:52Randy, the town manager,

22:54said frequency and tone are important

22:56information to get, not just decibel

22:57levels,

22:59which the police get called to enforce.

23:02Harry on the town council

23:04mentioned enforcement for data centers

23:05operating 24/7

23:07would be much different than calling the

23:08police for a loud party.

23:10We discussed that independent noise

23:12consultant would be needed to write the

23:13ordinance. Apparently that never

23:15happened. And during the 7 months before

23:17the application got withdrawn by the

23:18developer in early March of this year,

23:20and the purpose of the 1-year moratorium

23:23was to gather information and develop

23:25documents including a noise ordinance.

23:28There are many other topics I think that

23:30should be discussed during the 1-year

23:31moratorium such as artificial

23:33intelligence.

23:34Last Wednesday, Bruce presented to the

23:37AAB uh data centers subcommittee a

23:40review of noise technical information

23:42and draft ordinance. He acknowledged not

23:45an expert in the area and wanted to

23:47present information as a layperson.

23:50I noticed the YouTube video has 120

23:52views so far, which is pretty good.

23:54Yesterday we joined

23:56a community community teams meeting led

23:58by Bruce to discuss these issues where

24:01we learned that the planning department

24:02is fast-tracking the noise ordinance

24:04apparently because two current board

24:06members are going to

24:08uh and its terms expand at the end of

24:10the year.

24:11Town plans to have the ordinance in

24:13place before new applications are

24:14submitted with a future noise consultant

24:17locked into monitoring and enforcing the

24:19ordinance to be paid for by the

24:20developer.

24:22So I hope others agree that this does

24:23not make sense. I suggest slowing down

24:26the process to review the ordinance so

24:29we can make more of a discussion on

24:32noise and other problems. Thank you.

24:36>> Thank you, Bill.

24:40Moving on um

24:42with the agenda

24:45Council member Council member Robert

24:47>> Yeah, thanks.

24:48>> Yes.

24:50Uh good evening, everyone. Um

24:53Good to see you all.

24:55And I have a couple things on my list

24:57today to chat about. The first is

25:01really quickly the town council did

25:02adopt UDO amendments and town code

25:04changes related to board appointments

25:08last meeting. The intention of this is

25:10that we're going to be a lot more

25:11consistent

25:13and reliable calendar driven in how we

25:15do the appointments.

25:17My My hope is it's like clockwork. We

25:19got appointments coming up. We vote the

25:21day before or the rather the meeting

25:22before.

25:24People will get appointed and go on and

25:26we won't leave vacancies so long. I know

25:28we have a vacancy here

25:30you know for resignation

25:32and I think that's getting lumped in

25:33because we're so close to another cycle

25:35of appointments for this board. I

25:36believe there's eight up. That's like

25:38almost everybody this coming December.

25:41So

25:43think about that and you know I do

25:45believe you have to resubmit your your

25:47your stuff if you want to be

25:49reappointed. We have a very strong track

25:51record of reappointing

25:53people who do want to continue serving.

25:55So I'm going to encourage you to do that

25:56but new process and I'm hoping it'll

25:59it'll be positive.

26:00Some other notes.

26:03I feel morally obligated to mention

26:05early voting is going on right over

26:07there. So everyone here who didn't vote

26:10yet, this guy voted. Everybody else when

26:12this meeting is over walk on down there

26:14and vote.

26:15It'll be running for the next two weeks

26:17up until the actual election.

26:19Um

26:21The topic I want to mention about

26:22conditions.

26:24This isn't widely known but there have

26:25been a couple

26:27a couple rezoning cases where we've

26:29secured cash from a developer in lieu of

26:32other conditions they couldn't do.

26:34On the

26:36Apex Gateway they actually committed to

26:39$200,000. Half of which went to trees

26:41for the triangle, half of which went to

26:44forget which organization. It's

26:45significant. It was a good chunk of

26:46their operating budget. Trees for

26:48triangle was really happy with that.

26:50That's something that you know I pressed

26:52for because I wanted some loosening of

26:53some

26:54uh, tree safety industry for something

26:56that that, uh, you know, um, was bad or

27:00I thought was bad, so I,

27:02suggested that. They came back and did

27:03it. It was great. So, just keep that in

27:05mind. We've also done them at least once

27:07before here before I got here. I've also

27:08donated some cash,

27:10uh, to help tree canopy uh, restoration

27:12in the area when they couldn't do the

27:14calculations showing the replantings

27:15were sufficient.

27:17And that's something I've been, uh, you

27:18know,

27:20thinking about a lot over the years.

27:22It's just how can we keep our tree

27:23canopy? And I think,

27:25you know,

27:27people should replant as much as they

27:28they should save as much as they could.

27:30And what they can't save, they should

27:31replant. What they can't replant, they

27:33should, uh, cause to be replanted by

27:35other people. That's my opinion.

27:37Uh, so I thought I'd bring that up in

27:38light of tonight's discussion. Um, the

27:40last thing I want to talk about was the

27:41North Salem flood, which is the,

27:45sort of active development everyone's

27:46talking about in town. Um, I know the

27:49the,

27:50uh, residents nearby put signs up.

27:51You've probably seen them. Uh, that was

27:53scheduled for a vote on Tuesday, but it

27:54got continued because the developer

27:57ended discussions with the neighbors and

27:58the council wanted to work more on some

28:00of the, uh, issues.

28:03And there's a couple really interesting

28:04things about this. And And Bill, maybe

28:05you'll remember this. This is the, um,

28:08uh, so when it comes to storm water,

28:11there's there's two things I've learned

28:13that you have to be concerned about.

28:14It's, um,

28:15peak flow rate, like how much gallons

28:18per second actually flow. And we have

28:19rules around capping that to be equal to

28:22the, um,

28:24you know, pre-development value. And

28:26there's there's, uh, levels of it, you

28:28know, your 1-year, 10-year, uh, 25-year,

28:3150-year, billion-year, whatever it is.

28:33It's all capping the flow rate. Uh, but

28:36critically, that's actually not the same

28:38as the volume. Like, when you develop a

28:40property and you add impervious surface,

28:42there's going to be more water coming

28:44off it. It just is. It doesn't It goes

28:46in the pond, doesn't go back up around.

28:49The pond restricts the flow rate, but

28:50the total uh still increases and can

28:53cause downstream issues.

28:55So, um there's this concept of how can

28:57we

28:59uh

28:59what does it look like to cap the volume

29:01somehow or stretch out the volume for

29:03longer?

29:04And um

29:05an interesting thing happened here in

29:07this property. And this is I bring up

29:09Bill because it's a rule you were

29:10fighting for. I looked back in the

29:11minutes. And like 2004 here,

29:15and you finally got it in 2015.

29:17And then it was extended in 2019 where

29:19Apex actually does have a volume

29:22regulation

29:23uh capacity retention. So, not only do

29:26we have to cap

29:28and and this is the uh Upper Beaver

29:29Creek Basin it's called, I think. And we

29:32have to cap a 25-year

29:34uh flow rate, max flow rate has to match

29:36pre-development for 25 year. And you

29:37have to retain your pond has to be big

29:40enough to hold a 10-year storm for the

29:42area for what your impervious surface

29:44is.

29:45And that 10-year storm uh that capacity

29:49uh the UDO says, I'm not an expert, but

29:51the UDO says it uh they have 72 hours

29:54they must discharge over 72 hours as

29:56opposed to the flow rate, which is over

29:57an hour or two sometimes they they

29:59reduce it. So, what's interesting is

30:02yeah, uh

30:03Bill suggested it in 2004, Weatherly

30:06shot him down. You got the cool dozer in

30:082015,

30:10uh which created it for uh and this this

30:12was even for this part, it's for the uh

30:14the other guys over there called the

30:15library.

30:17Um that other basin is William Creek or

30:19something like that. But it's the same

30:21situation where it's, you know, a a

30:23developed basin with older neighborhoods

30:25that didn't have any storm water

30:26retention at all.

30:28Um this 25-year flow, 10-year volume,

30:32and uh staff extended it, it looked like

30:34in 2019. Um a staff initiative just

30:37said, "Oh, let's add this basin as well,

30:39it has the same issue."

30:41And I think this might be

30:43the first development in Apex that this

30:45rule actually applies to. We actually

30:46went through the process and they're not

30:48exempt cuz if you're a certain size you

30:50can exempt from our rule if under an

30:51acre. But I think this might be the

30:53first time it actually happened. So it's

30:54really interesting to me uh to see what

30:56happens and how it could address some of

30:57the issues that um

30:59that Head and Hall has been seeing. And

31:01uh I looked around the state and I

31:02couldn't find anybody that has a rule

31:04like this. At least this extensive. Um

31:06Chapel Hill was close. They have a 2-in

31:09um of rainwater retention. Um in Apex

31:13it's it's 1-in across the board. And but

31:15in this zone it's a it's a full 100-year

31:17storm. I think it's I think it's 6 in or

31:197 in or something.

31:21So that's a little interesting. Uh in

31:22general, if you look at the packet, what

31:24they I know we talk a lot about year

31:25conditions and how they relate to their

31:27final application. And I'm trying to

31:28find what they did. They did a lot of

31:30stuff. They added native vegetation,

31:31which is requested. Pet waste stations

31:33is always

31:34uh pollinator habitat. It looks like um

31:38uh HOAs can't ban them. They're

31:39preserving a particular tree that would

31:41that was brought up. I think this is in

31:43March maybe. It was before you guys uh

31:45you guys were around then. Uh EV wiring

31:47the townhomes, green building

31:49certification, bus stop, and uh

31:51stormwater capped.

31:53Uh they have agreed to a 50-year storm

31:55on top of their own 25-year in addition

31:58to the 10-year retention.

31:59Um

32:00I'm wondering if

32:02like my theory is maybe the 50-year

32:05flow rate was easy to do since they had

32:06to do the 10-year retention anyway. Like

32:08it was the same size pond and they just

32:09put a different size in there.

32:11Anyway, it's good.

32:13They did not agree to your request for a

32:1430-ft buffer

32:16um

32:17or uh a 6% solar requirement.

32:20And uh

32:21that's where that's at. So it continued

32:23from the town council meeting to

32:24November 10th

32:26and they're continuing to evaluate the

32:28feedback from the community.

32:29And a lot of the concerns are around

32:31stormwater because Head and Hall has

32:32creeks and and those creeks are buffers

32:35are being eroded and

32:37getting in people's yards and all that

32:38stuff and the increased volume

32:40regardless of the flow rate is a is a

32:42concern if if the response is due it.

32:45So that is all the hot topics I think

32:47that I had in mind

32:49to mention.

32:51Thank you all again for all the work

32:52that you do

32:53and I will make sure that all the

32:55appointments get done quickly for

32:57December. Encourage you all to reapply.

32:59You're doing great. So.

33:01Any questions?

33:03>> Is it that only new buffers that you are

33:06inviting the

33:08>> That we are It is not yet. It will be

33:10soon. So yeah, the the application

33:12window and that was the thing is because

33:14of the resignation

33:16there's a window to to apply or we're

33:17coming close to opening the window for

33:19the December ones. I

33:20I think we try to advertise for 60 days

33:23or something. So it's like, you know,

33:26like this week is like when the there

33:28should be soon postings for the EAB

33:30spots and I'm not sure how many of you

33:31are planning to reapply. Some of you may

33:33be turned out how many real slots will

33:35be versus renewals, but it will you'll

33:37be absolutely notified. I think the

33:39clerk will probably send you an

33:40individual email saying, "Hey, if you

33:42want to reapply

33:43uh put it in here."

33:45So.

33:47>> Question. Um I heard there was some

33:50debate over

33:52um filling vacancies like I guess

33:55council approves candidates and then if

33:59a candidate's not approved or if there

34:01is a vacancy that council could then

34:02recommend somebody. Did that go through

34:06or

34:08>> There was there was a UDO amendment to

34:10allow council to Well, the mayor will

34:12still recommend someone for the sporting

34:14belt if if the council does not agree

34:16with it, they are allowed to recommend a

34:18qualified person.

34:21>> Yeah, so I'll simplify it even further.

34:24The state law says council makes all the

34:25appointments, period.

34:27Um our UDO said the mayor makes the

34:29recommendation

34:30and that

34:32that sentence that the mayor makes a

34:33recommendation has been interpreted in a

34:36variety of ways, one of which is that

34:38the process perhaps can't even start

34:40until the mayor makes a recommendation.

34:42So, that's a situation where the mayor

34:43hasn't made recommendations, or he's

34:45made them and withdrawn them, or he's

34:46made them and then we say, "No, we don't

34:49want to appoint that person." And he

34:50puts the same person and says, "Well, I

34:52really want this person." And we're just

34:53like, "Okay." So, the new process does

34:55away with that and now it's just the

34:56mayor makes a recommendation and we say,

34:59"That's fantastic." And then we vote for

35:00some people and then it just happens,

35:02like I said, driven by the calendar.

35:04We'll just do it the meeting before and

35:07I encourage all my colleagues to not

35:10take it too personal or care about the

35:12results. We do dozens of these a year

35:14and if you want someone on a board or

35:16you think they're great and they don't

35:17get on, just have them apply next time.

35:19You know, we do probably 50 or so

35:21appointments between all the boards. So,

35:23it's not a not a huge thing. So, to me

35:25it's about consistency and reliability

35:28and not having vacancies and uh and and

35:31not having to ever talk about it again.

35:33It's also a key

35:35feature that I was looking forward to.

35:37So.

35:38>> Thank you.

35:38>> Yes.

35:39>> Is there a set um

35:41like a set window before your calendar

35:43ends where you should um receive

35:46something from

35:47>> Yeah.

35:48>> Yeah.

35:48>> Yeah, so the clerk should reach out to

35:50you directly at the same time he opens

35:53the applications. And when we get the

35:55packet of all the applicants, it does

35:57list here's who the incumbents are and

36:00if they're re-applying.

36:02And and typically if you've, you know,

36:04cuz the experience you have on the board

36:05is extremely valuable. We don't want to

36:08switch arbitrarily. So, we we like

36:09people to serve out multiple terms and

36:11and you know, we do want people

36:13there to be turnover to get

36:14opportunities for others to serve, but

36:17you know, on a regular board with people

36:18resigning, that that happens naturally.

36:20So, you know, we may get one or two or

36:22three that are

36:24termed out, but I

36:26you should be hearing from Allen, um,

36:29probably around the same time I guess

36:30the booster meeting. I can find out the

36:31exact date, but I suspect it'll

36:33definitely be before the next meeting in

36:34a month. It'll be the middle of

36:35November, and I think the appointments

36:37are supposed to be

36:39um,

36:40you know, done at the first meeting in

36:42December, like

36:43you know,

36:457th or whatever the day happens to be.

36:47And we'd like to have,

36:48you know, the applicants all

36:51already sorted out for them.

36:56>> You okay?

36:57>> Great.

36:59>> Um,

36:59moving on, Beth and Allen.

37:02>> Yeah, I'll make this quick. Um, first of

37:04all, we do have our youth voting

37:06representative, Hi Angela, welcome. Glad

37:09to have you.

37:11Um, we've got two events I want to tell

37:13you about. First off is Arbor Day. Um,

37:16it's this Saturday at Huffman Park, 9:00

37:19to 12:00. This is the town's first real,

37:23I guess, solo Arbor Day. And usually we

37:25do something in conjunction with Earth

37:27Fest in April, but now it's a

37:29requirement of Tree City to host a

37:32specific designated Arbor Day event. So,

37:35that's what this is this year. Um, it's

37:37going to be an educational opportunity.

37:39We're going to have organizations there.

37:41I'll be tabling as well, so if anybody

37:43wants to table with me, please feel

37:45free. Um, Walk the Trees of the

37:47Triangle, Green Waste Company, Apex

37:49Youth Council is going to table, um, a

37:52couple other groups, but then it's also

37:53a service kind of morning. So, we'll

37:56have the Tree City proclamation, um,

38:00given by council. Um, the mayor's going

38:02to speak, and then we're going to get

38:03into service portion, which we're

38:05planting a uh

38:08you know, kind of getting like an Arbor

38:09Day tree, an honorary one, and then

38:11replacing two dead trees, and giving

38:14some re-mulching around the park.

38:16Um, Leaf and Limb and Deep Planet

38:18Forward are coming to help us with that.

38:20It's going to be a demonstration to

38:21volunteers that are coming. So, it

38:23should be a fun morning, free little

38:26event to celebrate our trees.

38:28And then, the next event is on the 22nd

38:30of October. And we're doing another

38:33Creek Cleanup Discovery event with Our

38:35River Assembly. So, Sandra will be back

38:38again to help with that. Um love her,

38:40miss her. Uh it's 6:00 to 7:00 at the

38:44Nature Park.

38:45So, on the not the um

38:47ball field side with the amphitheater

38:49side under the shelter.

38:52It's fun, family-friendly. Um there's a

38:54volunteer or it's not volunteer, but you

38:57sign up through the volunteer portal if

38:59anyone's interested.

39:01Um 22nd, 6:00 to 7:00 at the Nature

39:03Park.

39:05And Arbor Day is at Pleasant Park.

39:07I've got that info later, don't be late.

39:09Give it to you after this meeting.

39:12And I think that's it.

39:13>> So, one of the out of the way is as I

39:15said we have

39:16two active subcommittees that are

39:18currently working on different things.

39:19One is the data center subcommittee, and

39:21we also have the tree canopy

39:22preservation subcommittee. I did want to

39:24kind of put it out there now that we do

39:26have two members on our data center

39:27subcommittee. So, I'm hoping this

39:30So, I wanted to put this out there that

39:32if anyone's interested in joining that

39:33subcommittee at that time, it's a good

39:35time to start thinking about it and

39:36maybe looking at some of the stuff that

39:37we've talked about. If anyone is

39:39interested but they feel a little

39:40overwhelmed by all that, maybe missing a

39:42lot of meetings or not being aware of

39:44what's going on,

39:45then you can email offline and get

39:47caught up today and everything like

39:48that. But, this will be something that

39:50we'll we'll try to

39:52put out to y'all soon as we consider it.

39:54Just

39:54It is it is a big ask, it's a lot of

39:56work. But, I think you'll find it really

39:59educational and rewarding being able to

40:01be a part of this process.

40:03>> And I will add, Bruce, you're you're

40:05modest, you're not going to mention

40:06this, but like this subcommittee process

40:07and Bruce's work is being recognized

40:10around the state as kind of being a

40:11leader in

40:13understanding and driving this process

40:15and and developing rules is is brought

40:18up at um the league conference that I

40:20was at

40:21pretty sure about it, too. Like people

40:22are really looking at what he backs is

40:24doing and this isn't just some random

40:27off-the-wall work. It's it's getting

40:28noticed and I think a lot of people uh

40:32I believe what we'll see is is what

40:34comes out of here may maybe the model

40:36for a lot of the states cuz we're we're

40:37ahead of a lot of other municipalities

40:39than where we are in the calendar, too.

40:41>> What was she the the

40:43noise draft? Motionary ordinances is on

40:46the website. It is on the website.

40:49Everybody in here I suggest you go on

40:51that website and

40:53take a look at it because you'll have to

40:55deal with it

40:56at some point.

40:58>> It's the that that language on the

40:59website is really kind of

41:02getting conversations going on what's

41:03expected both ways. It could be the

41:05protective measures and it's not an

41:07official draft.

41:08>> Nobody Nobody's really had a lot of it.

41:12Who is the planner?

41:13>> It's an input getting put in, but it's

41:15>> You know, the what?

41:16>> Right. Right.

41:17>> And I have additional things I can send

41:20to you or to the second committee on on

41:22noise sound and things that have been

41:23done in other states. It's helpful.

41:25>> Yeah, absolutely.

41:26>> Okay.

41:26>> Please send anything you like and I can

41:27always share it.

41:28>> That's fine.

41:29Yeah.

41:34>> Hey Bruce.

41:36Um we'll be going we'll be going through

41:37both this and um

41:40the work session um us

41:42it's the reason why we're up here in the

41:44on the third floor

41:45for the suggestions on the conditions

41:48discussion by by John.

41:53Um

41:55You

41:56You have to make a motion for that.

41:58Yeah.

41:59Yeah, sorry.

42:00>> No, I understand.

42:02>> Okay, good.

42:05>> I I've got some handouts

42:08everybody.

42:12And if somebody wants to

42:14come in and get them.

42:17I'm going to

42:18It should be one per lot.

43:12You have one property. Okay.

43:23Um

43:28The uh

43:30There's no new recommendations that uh

43:33we've got in place now that

43:35evolved since the beginning of this

43:38board.

43:40Board was set up in 2019 and had their

43:43first meeting in January of 2020.

43:47Uh at that time,

43:49there were no recommendations at all. Uh

43:53What we were charged with was

43:56making recommendations on our zoning

43:58ordinance.

44:00But sometimes uh

44:03figured out that we we need to have some

44:05sort of format and some standard

44:07recommendations that uh

44:09would be consistent across all of the

44:12all of the

44:13requests.

44:15Um

44:16it's gone through several iterations

44:19since then and

44:20what you got now and

44:22what's on the left side. Um

44:26We spent a lot of time

44:28in a

44:29different subcommittee a few years ago

44:31coming up with uh

44:33what we thought would work for now. Um

44:39I've

44:41I've raised the the issue I guess back

44:44in August or whenever it was. Um

44:46that uh

44:47might ought to take another look at it.

44:53Uh my my

44:54>> [clears throat]

44:54>> primary interest was in in maybe trying

44:57to categorize

45:00different recommendations that we have

45:02in

45:04community group hearings.

45:06What we impact to the environment of

45:09what we impact to the environment

45:12Um

45:13and that idea

45:16was originally suggested by the

45:18councilman

45:19Mr. Gay.

45:20So

45:21and we sort of blew it off at the time

45:24but uh after having met with the

45:26planning board

45:28or having seen how the planning board

45:30acts

45:33clearly that

45:34they look more at well

45:36how many recommendations did they

45:38developer adopt versus

45:41the total number that we had and it

45:43really didn't

45:44look at the impact of of the

45:46recommendations. Uh so

45:49I'm I'm thinking that we need to go

45:51through each one of the recommendations

45:53we've got

45:54uh and then maybe put a classification

45:57on them.

45:59I don't have any strong feelings on

46:02how many categories we'd have uh

46:05really sort of

46:08simplistic and and sort of provides a

46:10little guidance.

46:14That would be one approach to take.

46:16Another approach would be to to

46:18go through and

46:21revamp the whole

46:22recommendations here.

46:27My opinion on that is that we not do

46:30that.

46:33Over Over time, the uh amount of

46:35rezonings that that we review uh at the

46:39decrease because the size of the

46:42uh rezoning requests is

46:4510 acres and up.

46:46Uh so

46:48we don't get involved in as many as we

46:51as we once did.

46:52And

46:54I think we would be better spent

46:57using our time and

47:00seeing what we can change in the UDO we

47:03have.

47:04That will have a more longer-lasting

47:06impact.

47:08But we still need to make have some sort

47:10of recommendations on on requests that

47:12come through.

47:14So that's

47:16that's why I think we probably need to

47:18come up with some sort of category.

47:24One last thing I think uh is important

47:26that is

47:28when we make

47:30motions

47:32to

47:35Yes, the only consideration

47:37recommendation

47:40no particular request.

47:43I think we need to

47:45point out whether we think

47:46that it has

47:48what is being proposed will minimize the

47:50environmental impact

47:53on town. There's a

47:55language

47:56uh in the UDO that

47:59says all of these uh

48:01rezoning requests uh

48:05there needs to be some sort of standard

48:06saying whether or not it it minimizes

48:09the environmental damage. There will be

48:11environmental damage on every single one

48:13of these requests.

48:15No way around it.

48:17Question is, does it minimize the

48:18impact?

48:20And I think when we make a motion

48:22uh to adopt particular recommendations

48:25to the town staff, we need to specify

48:27whether or not we feel like our

48:29recommendations would uh

48:32match that.

48:36That will That will let the town council

48:38know what we think for sure on all of

48:41this.

48:43And you know, if we don't If somebody on

48:46the board doesn't think it does, then

48:48I think that's fine.

48:50I don't think we need to have unanimous

48:52consent on this stuff.

48:55But you do have to specify if you got a

48:57problem. So,

48:59and that that will help us, I think, in

49:00the long run.

49:03So, that's

49:04that's why I'm trying to deal with this

49:06tonight, and in a short time or so.

49:10A definite short time. I I can't

49:12reapply, so

49:15I wanted to get this out, and and if if

49:17we're going to be, you know, working on

49:18this

49:20for the February meeting, that's that's

49:22one thing, but I I I would really like

49:24to see maybe these

49:26uh categories uh be added to each one of

49:30the

49:31recommendations, so that so that we can

49:35say, you know, well, they met

49:37That's a low low-tier recommendation.

49:41Throw away all the

49:43more important ones.

49:45But that would that would provide more

49:46information to the planning board and

49:48town council.

49:50>> Okay.

49:51Um

49:52there are a couple of

49:54minor changes I think that we need to

49:57add

50:00to the current even if we don't do it.

50:03>> Before we dive into the individual

50:05changes, could I speak to something that

50:07you said? Because um as a new board

50:10member reviewing these recommendations,

50:12I felt a similarly like some of these

50:15have more environmental value than

50:17others. So, I support

50:20that however we do it. Um I did a sort

50:22of similar exercise that I sent to Nora

50:25and I don't know if he sent it to you

50:26guys. Do you have that where you could

50:28pull it up real quick and I can just

50:30show you like the way I was thinking

50:32about it which is not a tier one, tier

50:34two, tier three kind of thing, but is

50:37getting at the same thing and and I'm

50:39not saying my way is right way, not, but

50:42it's

50:43um

50:44but one way to look at it because one of

50:46the challenges that I had with looking

50:48through the

50:49recommendations is they're all

50:51categorized by like storm water and

50:53water quality or

50:55um

50:56you know, uh

50:58sustainable buildings or something like

50:59that. So, almost each one has equal

51:01value when in reality

51:04um when you're thinking about things

51:06like RCA, you know, it's hitting water

51:08quality, it's hitting biodiversity, it's

51:10hitting lots of things. And so, um

51:14you might want to make it bigger. If you

51:16scroll, um okay, so

51:20I could run the computer for a second if

51:22you want me to do it.

51:24That'd be easiest. Okay, sorry. Excuse

51:26me.

51:29I do a lot of um

51:32building building code stuff.

51:34And so,

51:37when I was looking at it, um

51:42I think I have it here.

51:45Show me the water.

51:48Okay.

51:52>> Um

51:54I

51:55I took a look at these different

51:57recommendations by like what are they

51:59good site analysis and layout site

52:01design and their purpose of

52:02operations maintenance. So

52:05I categorized them by that to try

52:08to try to determine um

52:11where recommendations are hitting.

52:13The majority of them are in site design,

52:15which is not surprising. We didn't have

52:16any that really addressed impacts during

52:18construction.

52:19Which is also not surprising. We can get

52:21into that later, but the main thing that

52:24I did after I sort of categorized them

52:26by that without

52:27touching them

52:29was I

52:31I was looking at these different

52:32categories here. This one has only one

52:34of the inputs on water waste, clean

52:36energy, lighting, deep planning,

52:38and building.

52:39Whereas if you're looking at them like a

52:41green building code standpoint,

52:44you'd be looking at things like like

52:45biodiversity, carbon reduction, and

52:47seques- sequestration,

52:50community health and well-being, and

52:52water.

52:53So

52:54I then through the help of open

52:58I then go through and um

53:00categorize these different

53:03recommendations by like what they hit.

53:06And the value of that, I think,

53:09getting to your tier one, tier two, or

53:11three is that some have like way more

53:15checks

53:16than others, you know,

53:18in terms of what they're impacting.

53:23So

53:25and I can go through what these

53:26different categories are. I didn't mean

53:28to like hijack the meeting here, but um

53:31I think we're saying the same thing.

53:33>> Yeah, we are. We're saying We're saying

53:34exactly.

53:36>> Can you add noise in there? I mean, with

53:38us talking about things with the data

53:41center sustainability. Yeah,

53:43and there's others I can give you but

53:45that's

53:46going back to this talking about noise

53:47that would be definitely a

53:49future one to have up there.

53:59You know I think they're different ways

54:01you know whether what noise hits or

54:03whatever. Um

54:06What's the connection you want to follow

54:08up on to

54:09the biggest thing with the data center

54:10discussion makes me think about it.

54:13Uh but

54:15You know I've got definitions for each

54:18of these categories and the different

54:19types of things that might apply to it

54:21if you wanted to look at it through

54:22these lenses.

54:24Um

54:25the way that

54:27this is Oh there it is. There's a site

54:29analysis and layout and why that didn't

54:31show up before.

54:33Um these are the same recommendations

54:34here in black as our two other problems

54:37here.

54:38Uh that I didn't even talk much about. I

54:40had some potential new suggested ones in

54:43red if we get some new ones.

54:46Um

54:48And then the material selection, you

54:50know these are the ones that were

54:52addressed. You guys want to go through

54:53this you can. Again I don't want to

54:55hijack the meeting.

54:56Um operations and maintenance we had a

54:58few so I put

55:00one more potential new recommendation in

55:02the comments.

55:04Construction, we didn't have any in

55:05construction so I had one in there.

55:08But perhaps a kind suggestion might be

55:10let's go through your changes to the

55:12existing ones

55:14and then we can address potential new

55:16ones and then maybe categorization.

55:19>> Yeah yeah

55:21and my I had a couple of them just adds

55:23to the current plan.

55:27One thing which uh I can't believe it

55:31we don't have it written down

55:33was that uh

55:35so it comes a recommendation.

55:39Number 39 of plain energy for

55:43non-residential

55:45not show up in the residential part.

55:51I'm surprised that

55:53they have to talk about it.

55:55I think we need to add that

55:57in, please.

55:59You know, if

56:01we're going to keep this sort of format,

56:03we certainly need to have something like

56:05that in the residential.

56:08If

56:10it isn't there, so

56:11>> Sorry. What number are you talking

56:13about?

56:13>> 39

56:16>> Okay.

56:19Is that a new one?

56:21>> No, that's an existing one

56:24in the

56:25non-residential category section.

56:28>> Oh, I see.

56:30>> It is It

56:31It's not something that's in the

56:33in the residential section.

56:38It

56:38>> in a fact

56:40>> That's really where we typically

56:42you ask for.

56:44>> I'm going to throw another wrench in the

56:45works here, but I find it kind of

56:48confusing that there are so many pages.

56:51Can we just not have like

56:53all the recommendations this applies to

56:55residential and this

56:56applies to non-residential that way we

56:58don't wind up with this type of

57:00>> There There are There are some

57:03things in here that

57:05don't apply to residential don't apply

57:09to non-residential areas.

57:12And when when this thing was developed,

57:14there was

57:16some confusion

57:18from developers over, you know, well, I

57:21don't know whether this will apply to me

57:23or not.

57:24And that's why that's why we got them

57:26categorized that way.

57:28>> What I was thinking you have one list

57:30and you have a check box of applies to

57:34>> [clears throat]

57:34>> and maybe that's still confusing for

57:36people but

57:38you know

57:39>> It's shorter than it was before.

57:51>> That's it's kind of like what I did

57:53here, right? Like you've got a check box

57:55residential non-residential. That would

57:57be checked or not checked already. You

58:00know, like this applies to

58:02just a way of having one list.

58:07I I think it's personally taking

58:10both ideas and combining them

58:13would be the way to go and

58:15you know, I I've only been on since

58:17about February

58:19but

58:20this is more of what I was hoping when I

58:23came on

58:24to the board to get delved into so

58:28I'm excited with what you got here.

58:33>> So what actually So this this line if

58:36you can see it is sort of what we have

58:38a problem.

58:40So

58:41if I'm going to number

58:43check box row we're going to actually

58:45say this one this one and this one.

58:47>> No. No. I'm talking about instead of you

58:51have

58:52residential and non-residential

58:54development category so you've got part

58:56one residential and non-residential

58:58and then you've got part two which is

59:01what residential

59:03So I'm just saying you could have one

59:05list of recommendations and you could

59:07have a column to the left of the numbers

59:10or to the right of numbers whatever

59:12where you have designated whether this

59:14applies to residential projects or

59:17non-residential projects.

59:19So you just have one list.

59:25Yeah.

59:26It would be like 11 out of 17.

59:29Well, I think he can resize things. We

59:32can make it horizontal, whatever.

59:34There's all kinds of formatting things.

59:36I'm just saying instead of it being

59:37eight pages, it could be four pages

59:39because you've already, you know, on the

59:41same thing as the road, you don't have

59:42to repeat it.

59:43>> Yeah. Yeah.

59:45>> So, so according with this approach, it

59:47looks like a more analytical way.

59:50But is there anything like a matrix we

59:52can get out of it and then we can

59:54categorize with a low, high, medium

59:56thing?

59:57>> Is that

59:58I think when you when you look

1:00:00categories

1:00:02by side

1:00:04that's

1:00:05that sort of gives you an impact, but

1:00:07but

1:00:08the concern I have with that

1:00:12simple as it is is it's not going to

1:00:16bowed well when when the planning board

1:00:18looks at it and the town council looks

1:00:20at it. They're

1:00:22>> Well, okay. Wait, let's just talk about

1:00:24this.

1:00:25Like this is just a simple formatting

1:00:27thing that could be applied to the

1:00:30format we have. Ignore the categories or

1:00:33whatever.

1:00:34It's just I'm saying that's all I'm

1:00:36referring to is like you can

1:00:38you can designate this way.

1:00:40So, you have one list of items instead

1:00:42of

1:00:43Okay.

1:00:44>> A lot of it

1:00:46>> Um

1:00:48Now

1:00:50I don't know are these UDO driven? Are

1:00:53these came up?

1:00:54Or or is it just

1:00:56>> Yeah, I think they were

1:00:58They were UDO driven.

1:01:00>> Some of these are these are not UDO.

1:01:02So, this is why they're suggesting some

1:01:04of the additions.

1:01:05>> But then it's they they were categorized

1:01:08and then

1:01:11for how I I think

1:01:13people in planning look at

1:01:16these things.

1:01:18It's really helpful

1:01:20developing the

1:01:22Well, there we go.

1:01:27What I recall

1:01:30it was it was we were we were trying to

1:01:33put together issues that were

1:01:36clearly storm water

1:01:38water related.

1:01:40Things that were clearly building

1:01:42related.

1:01:44>> Oops.

1:01:45>> I'm sorry.

1:01:45>> Okay.

1:01:46>> [laughter]

1:01:57[clears throat]

1:01:57>> And there it goes again.

1:01:59>> [laughter]

1:02:02>> Is it a timing thing?

1:02:05>> [laughter]

1:02:07>> But they're supposed to be on separate

1:02:08switches.

1:02:10Sorry.

1:02:11>> It's okay.

1:02:14Okay, so you're saying these were

1:02:16kind of like flood and idea related to

1:02:18like building

1:02:19>> Well, not not necessarily the idea, but

1:02:21categorized in areas where specific

1:02:23people look at

1:02:25But the clean energy and the light the

1:02:27lighting efficiency uh

1:02:29is probably not as important as it once

1:02:31was because of the changes that we got

1:02:34pushed through in the UDO

1:02:37section.

1:02:40Clean energy uh

1:02:46I think that's Is that what that says?

1:02:47Clean

1:02:47>> Yes, yes, clean energy.

1:02:49>> I don't know that it is.

1:02:51It You probably can't make it big enough

1:02:53for me.

1:02:54Um

1:02:56>> [clears throat]

1:02:57>> I don't think there's anything in the

1:02:59UDO specific to that.

1:03:02But there is for planning and

1:03:03landscaping things like that.

1:03:08>> And these are along the lines of the

1:03:09purposes in the activities in the UDO.

1:03:12What it says in the UDO.

1:03:16What the law allows.

1:03:17>> Should I give it back? Um

1:03:21>> They closed the

1:03:22index page.

1:03:24>> Please please say that these categories

1:03:26were set up

1:03:30probably in the first edition and all we

1:03:32did was sort of clean things up in the

1:03:35this particular way.

1:03:37But I think this is the third revision

1:03:39of the

1:03:41recommendations that were

1:03:42made to the board before.

1:03:47>> My only challenge with them and I cuz I

1:03:50had this question like where did they

1:03:51come from, what are they related to and

1:03:53I thought that they must be sort of in a

1:03:54way like food driven or at least

1:03:58similar. My only challenge is that

1:04:02I mean

1:04:04planting and landscaping is

1:04:06sounds more like something that you add

1:04:09rather than something that you protect

1:04:11to me.

1:04:13>> Well, I I think I think

1:04:16from the recommendations that that we

1:04:18have in this book

1:04:20we're taking what's there and

1:04:23landscaping minimizing the disruptive

1:04:26landscape that we're going to do.

1:04:28Mhm.

1:04:33>> The challenge is that they don't they

1:04:34aren't quantifiable and so getting to

1:04:38what we're meshed with asking, could it

1:04:40be used in a matrix and if you call

1:04:43these, we can come up with whatever the

1:04:45heck we want to call them.

1:04:46But if you can get to a point where you

1:04:48can say this one has five check boxes

1:04:50then it

1:04:52>> Oh, I I agree. I mean I

1:04:55I think that's that's useful and

1:04:57to us. I'm not

1:05:01I think it's going to be helpful to the

1:05:03planning board or town council on

1:05:05visualizing how important

1:05:08whatever recommendations they adopt are.

1:05:11That's my that's my concern.

1:05:13>> Well, maybe you could make a definition

1:05:15where you said if something is dressed

1:05:17as any categories, it's automatically a

1:05:19tier

1:05:21one as in preferred category.

1:05:24And maybe because my only challenge with

1:05:25tier one, two, and three is

1:05:28what's the basis for that? How do you

1:05:29define that it's the reason why it is

1:05:32that?

1:05:33You know, other than the board says that

1:05:35it is.

1:05:36>> I don't change site to site. So, you

1:05:37don't have any block in the in the

1:05:39tiers, I think. I think this approach is

1:05:40interesting and I think maybe reworking

1:05:43how the score recommendation is received

1:05:46and maybe what goes to the staff report

1:05:47as well as additional information on

1:05:48like what scored very well might be the

1:05:50best and the most efficient way to

1:05:52communicate that information, but in

1:05:53something like this for the the board

1:05:55itself while you were just listening to

1:05:56these anything type of attempt to rate

1:05:58yourself, stop the board yourself like

1:06:00I'm not rating

1:06:01Getting my facial expressions

1:06:02>> That definitely would be helpful.

1:06:03>> Yeah, something like this for the board

1:06:05itself and then

1:06:06um reworking this to to match

1:06:08essentially whatever we do decide that

1:06:10should be the zoning conditions that you

1:06:12guys agree upon and then we can talk

1:06:14about how that gets translated and

1:06:15communicated to the board.

1:06:18>> So, what if there's a zoning condition

1:06:20that's approved by the board with the

1:06:22signs because it was site specific, then

1:06:24it would not come

1:06:26and that would be approved by the board.

1:06:29Yes.

1:06:30And once the board goes,

1:06:32you know, then

1:06:34then you can consider Well, that's the

1:06:35final

1:06:36>> I think I just think that we've had

1:06:37various different

1:06:39visions like change

1:06:41Um you can give an example

1:06:42>> No, I think for the

1:06:44downtown

1:06:46for the bus shelter bus

1:06:50I don't

1:06:52>> Okay. I I think, you know, we can you

1:06:54can suggest zoning conditions that are

1:06:56appropriate and meet the the you even

1:06:58the responsibilities of of the agency

1:07:00itself for protecting

1:07:01um uh

1:07:02all the conditions and modify the

1:07:04process and present

1:07:06is not site inappropriate. Um I think

1:07:08you said it's to adjust the conditions

1:07:10for why we're not seeing this here.

1:07:11>> Like that would be transportation and

1:07:13carpooling

1:07:14like transportation.

1:07:17>> Again, these are all these are all

1:07:18things that they have to agree to and

1:07:19there might be further discussion of

1:07:20that when you have your meeting with

1:07:22them and their recommendations.

1:07:23>> Right, but I mean, you know, it would it

1:07:25would go in like it would be no

1:07:27different than saying, "Well, we also

1:07:28recommend this this."

1:07:31Somehow kind of just one of those

1:07:33situations

1:07:35we don't have a guess on why they are.

1:07:37>> And for an inconsistency and bring

1:07:39ability, though, it it it really

1:07:41benefits us to kind of really

1:07:43narrow down what our standards and any

1:07:45conditions would be so they understand

1:07:47what they're coming into. There's cuz

1:07:49otherwise what's going to what's going

1:07:50to happen is you're going to maybe

1:07:51suggest a zoning condition to them right

1:07:53then and there while they're still in in

1:07:54all the process and they're just they're

1:07:56jumping to the answer and maybe commit

1:07:58to it right then and there.

1:08:00>> But isn't it like if they don't come

1:08:03>> Right, but then if if

1:08:05if it was a counselor or planning board

1:08:06and it's something like they requested a

1:08:08bus shelter

1:08:10for commuting.

1:08:12And is that something that they have to

1:08:13fulfill that requirement against versus

1:08:14maybe a larger stormwater

1:08:17and if you know, it's I think I think

1:08:19you guys need to kind of figure out what

1:08:21you want these to be so they can be

1:08:22prepared for next week before you let

1:08:25them in.

1:08:25They're going to have to if if they

1:08:26include

1:08:28I think some type of shelter to

1:08:29encourage public transportation to

1:08:31reduce carbon emissions and things like

1:08:32that, that's fine. We can talk about

1:08:34that, but I think

1:08:36their debate is adding a fine. If it's

1:08:38not related to something like this, I

1:08:39think you have a site where it is is a

1:08:42good intention, but it doesn't meet

1:08:44what's going to happen on the site here

1:08:45and that I think is inappropriate. Um

1:08:48but like just coming up with anything

1:08:49out of line, I don't know if that's

1:08:50inappropriate.

1:08:51Cuz they have that time to think and

1:08:52consider it. It it is.

1:08:54>> I did suggest something on alternative

1:08:57transportation and connectivity.

1:08:59So, like maybe it's to Bruce's point, we

1:09:02don't have enough different options in

1:09:04there.

1:09:04>> Yeah. Yeah. We might need that stuff.

1:09:08I mean when we were we were doing this

1:09:12that was before we started thinking

1:09:15about thinking about

1:09:17transportation issues.

1:09:22I probably should have been thinking of

1:09:23that for a long time.

1:09:27>> And for me that's where looking at sort

1:09:29of the impact categories got me thinking

1:09:31about that because uh

1:09:35reducing carbon emissions is part of the

1:09:38environment. Getting people off the

1:09:40road, encouraging walkability,

1:09:42bikeability, things like that.

1:09:45Um we should be encouraging that, having

1:09:48recommendations that encourage those

1:09:50things.

1:09:52And I didn't see anything in there

1:09:54related to

1:09:56>> And so what would happen if the

1:09:57developer

1:09:59So they just say Um

1:10:00what's the worst the expectation for

1:10:02them just to get off the list? And

1:10:04that's our

1:10:06step.

1:10:07>> I think I think the expectation right

1:10:09now is probably for them to get off this

1:10:11list or there are conversations that

1:10:13happen with uh sort of moderate now that

1:10:15the departments where they're they're

1:10:16concerned that or they think they were

1:10:18at additional protections.

1:10:20Perhaps that are conversations they have

1:10:22with you guys as part of mediation

1:10:24things, but

1:10:25um

1:10:26I mean that's what we're trying to work

1:10:27to really figure out what you guys want

1:10:28to say on this list so that we can

1:10:29fairly communicate our expectations at

1:10:31the time.

1:10:37>> Do you have situations where you do a

1:10:40a work meeting like this where you have

1:10:42both CAB and planning to discuss?

1:10:46>> No.

1:10:47>> No, that's what I was thinking.

1:10:49Just wondering.

1:10:53>> I thought people asked that.

1:10:55>> Did you have other um

1:10:57changes and recommendations?

1:10:59>> I think it was

1:11:00just uh

1:11:02one little

1:11:03part by part by part. Uh

1:11:07Uh on the stormwater description

1:11:12part three

1:11:19at the very top

1:11:23it talks about uh

1:11:26This may be done on private sites and

1:11:28not within a public right-of-way.

1:11:31And then it has a

1:11:32The last sentence is note that number 36

1:11:35is an exception that can be done in the

1:11:36public right-of-way, but it should be

1:11:36number 34, not 36. Number 36 should be

1:11:37number 34.

1:11:38Number 36

1:11:43Number 36

1:11:45uh

1:11:48>> 30

1:11:48>> On page six of eight.

1:11:50>> Yeah.

1:11:50>> Uh in the

1:11:54part three down in the residential

1:11:56stormwater conservation water quality

1:12:00section header

1:12:03Okay. What page? Page 24?

1:12:06It should be

1:12:07should be number 34.

1:12:1136

1:12:13what I raised right now.

1:12:14>> All right.

1:12:19>> Did you say that again, John? I missed

1:12:20what you said.

1:12:22>> Okay.

1:12:23Uh

1:12:24There's a

1:12:26section that says stormwater and water

1:12:28conservation water quality

1:12:32There's a little gray section

1:12:34below the description.

1:12:37Last sentence says, "Note that number 36

1:12:40is an exception that can be done in the

1:12:42public right-of-way."

1:12:44But number 36 should read 34.

1:13:08>> I have a question about your document.

1:13:09Um

1:13:09>> Yeah.

1:13:10>> For the numbers for the the conditions

1:13:13they go from one you can go to three,

1:13:16skip to seven. Are you

1:13:18Is there anything you're leaving out?

1:13:20>> Say he's not right.

1:13:21>> Yeah. Are you

1:13:24Are you kind of like combining things?

1:13:26Are you

1:13:26adding any things?

1:13:28>> Um

1:13:30For me

1:13:31I really wanted to see which conditions

1:13:34were addressing like the phases of a

1:13:37development development of a project.

1:13:40And so [clears throat]

1:13:42like as when I'm designing a project I'm

1:13:43a landscape architect.

1:13:45You know, there's certain environmental

1:13:47ways you can protect the environment at

1:13:49the beginning stages which is site

1:13:51analysis and layout, you know, like and

1:13:53that's getting at like protecting your

1:13:54RCA. It's

1:13:57preserving upland or wetland habitat,

1:13:59things like that. Then there's only the

1:14:01site design phase like once you sort of

1:14:04like analyzed your site and you figured

1:14:06out what your constraints are, then it's

1:14:08looking at the actual design itself.

1:14:11Then there's the materials that go into

1:14:13the project.

1:14:15And once it goes to construction,

1:14:17there's impacts that occur during

1:14:19construction. Then there are

1:14:20environmental impacts that occur as the

1:14:22site's being operated and maintained. So

1:14:25what I did was I fed the PDF of the EAB

1:14:29recommendations into Copilot

1:14:33Enterprise AI and

1:14:36and it sorted them by these different

1:14:38categories that I was given it. So

1:14:41uh

1:14:42these different number conditions

1:14:44apply to site analysis and layout, these

1:14:46apply to site design is applied to

1:14:48materials. We had zero conditions that

1:14:50apply to construction. We had a few

1:14:52conditions that apply to operations and

1:14:54maintenance.

1:14:55So,

1:14:56these numbers refer to the reference

1:14:58numbers giving the conditions as

1:15:00drafted.

1:15:02And this is the site analysis layout

1:15:04section. That's why they sort of skipped

1:15:06down.

1:15:11>> Were there Were there any

1:15:12recommendations that didn't fall into

1:15:14any of your categories?

1:15:17>> No.

1:15:17>> Okay.

1:15:18Good.

1:15:22>> So, I mean, I don't know how

1:15:25you would recommend that we go through

1:15:27this process. And here's part of me that

1:15:29like feels like it'd be worthwhile to go

1:15:31through to read every condition, but I'm

1:15:33new to the board, so they're new to me.

1:15:35You guys may have been reading them for

1:15:37a while.

1:15:39Uh

1:15:40I have some new ones that I might

1:15:41recommend, but

1:15:44you know, if you really think that the

1:15:45categorization is something one way or

1:15:47another that you want to look at or

1:15:49address,

1:15:50that's the only way to start. There's a

1:15:52lot, and I don't want to be mindful of

1:15:54everybody's time.

1:16:00>> For board members who have reviewed

1:16:02presenting to the project site and

1:16:04reviewed this document these conditions,

1:16:07what are your views? Where does it fall

1:16:08in short? What Is there any time when

1:16:09you're talking to the applicant that you

1:16:11feel like something's being left on the

1:16:13table? Like,

1:16:15what is it that's repeatedly coming up

1:16:17that just doesn't feel like it's it's

1:16:18hitting a hard that's easy to change,

1:16:20easy to address,

1:16:22easy to find too?

1:16:25>> Um

1:16:26I'll give you some potential ones that I

1:16:29drafted.

1:16:31Um

1:16:32Habitat connectivity and wildlife

1:16:33corridors.

1:16:35I guess.

1:16:37Susan and I were talking during the tree

1:16:38canopy subcommittee like protection of

1:16:40public habitat is important.

1:16:42And it's true.

1:16:44But then it's also the connection from

1:16:45lowland to upland habitat.

1:16:48And is there any mechanism within

1:16:53the UDO or within our recommendations to

1:16:55encourage that?

1:16:57And

1:16:58I will admit I have not reviewed these

1:17:00100% enough to know, but

1:17:04I mean

1:17:04>> I think it addresses it well.

1:17:06>> Yeah.

1:17:07>> So, not specifically. And there there

1:17:10can be issues with fragmentation of RC

1:17:12areas even though it's trying to

1:17:13encourage you to try to force them the

1:17:16areas to be connected. It's a slow

1:17:18struggle to incentivize a big

1:17:19difference.

1:17:20>> And so, this was one um

1:17:23where

1:17:23we would ask the applicant during the

1:17:25rezoning to identify wildlife and

1:17:28propose preservation areas and wildlife

1:17:30corridors through wildlife habitats.

1:17:33I'm a shaky for some reason today.

1:17:35Forgive me.

1:17:36Rambling a little bit.

1:17:38Um that maintain connections among

1:17:40existing or proposed natural areas with

1:17:42the space or period buffers with

1:17:44resource conservation areas, other

1:17:47significant habitat areas of the

1:17:48property.

1:17:50Where applicable, habitat on adjacent

1:17:52properties. Now, I know they can't

1:17:53control it, but if we know that there's

1:17:55like RCA on adjacent properties or

1:17:58there is existing vegetation with the

1:18:00ability to connect that, that would be a

1:18:01benefit.

1:18:03Where feasible, preserved areas shall be

1:18:05configured as continuous habitat,

1:18:07wildlife corridors rather than isolated

1:18:09areas of open space. EAB shall review

1:18:12what applicants propose for habitat

1:18:13preservation areas and wildlife

1:18:15corridors as part of the rezoning.

1:18:17Approved preservation areas and

1:18:19corridors shall be integrated into the

1:18:21rezoning plan for green except for

1:18:23necessary crossings of infrastructure

1:18:25specifically that are not

1:18:27We don't get into site design, per se,

1:18:29but like it would be really great if

1:18:31they could

1:18:32show us a map, hey, here's how we're

1:18:36doing this.

1:18:37Because part of my concern is if it just

1:18:40goes to planning,

1:18:44you know, there's

1:18:46there's a potential that it could get

1:18:47watered down, and I don't mean any

1:18:49disrespect by that, but when people are

1:18:51following the letter of the UDO, and the

1:18:53UDO only says protect

1:18:56sensitive areas,

1:18:58or, you know,

1:19:00you have to meet this letter of RCA,

1:19:03then it can become people have to have

1:19:04to see.

1:19:05If there's nothing in the UDO to protect

1:19:07it, please.

1:19:11>> I I'd like to say I I agree that we need

1:19:14something like an overlay map. I think

1:19:16that's what you're talking about.

1:19:18Uh to show the corridors that are

1:19:19expected

1:19:21through the areas. Now, they can be

1:19:22adjusted on properties, but it has to

1:19:24meet the intent of that

1:19:27overlay map.

1:19:29And it's too late for a lot of spots,

1:19:31but it we're still growing out somewhat.

1:19:34I it really it should have been done a

1:19:36long time ago.

1:19:38Just to show those corridors.

1:19:42>> How would you How would you grade uh

1:19:44they I think the good corridors to the

1:19:46bad corridor based on like are we going

1:19:49to look at a site, say,

1:19:51maybe they're dedicating their 30% of

1:19:53RCA, and then they're doing their best

1:19:54again to make sure that's continuous,

1:19:56and it's touching everything, but this

1:19:57corridor because of their future earlier

1:19:59development hasn't got as long or stays

1:20:01in one else. There's not as much

1:20:02connectivity to give the RC

1:20:04>> There is a way.

1:20:05>> That's the problem we have. I understand

1:20:06what you're saying.

1:20:07But uh do the best we can to give as

1:20:10much corridor as possible. And then I

1:20:12What I was

1:20:13thinking is they can adjust that, but

1:20:15they have to try to make the

1:20:16connectivity that was intended by the

1:20:19map.

1:20:22>> I think I'm

1:20:24not sure if I'm understanding you now.

1:20:26Are you asking for the town to produce a

1:20:28map?

1:20:30>> I am.

1:20:30>> Okay.

1:20:32This is suggesting that the applicant

1:20:36you know, denote

1:20:39the corridor that they are protecting.

1:20:42And the idea would be that you are

1:20:44connecting RCA in upland areas into

1:20:47lower areas. I love the idea of the town

1:20:49having maps. The town does not have a

1:20:51map.

1:20:52>> That's correct.

1:21:02>> But what we're talking about is stuff

1:21:04that is not currently RCA.

1:21:07Stuff that is um

1:21:11It It's a means of connecting extreme

1:21:13borders of wetlands and things that are

1:21:15typically considered as RCA as well as

1:21:17other areas upland areas.

1:21:21It's preventing fragmentation of

1:21:22forested areas.

1:21:24>> Well, typically the RCA tends to go

1:21:26along stream areas

1:21:28uh or forest

1:21:30buffers look around the development, but

1:21:32mainly that's the critical to me is the

1:21:34stream area to make sure that there is

1:21:36connectivity. And typically I think we

1:21:38get it almost naturally to an extent

1:21:41because you can't build in wetlands, you

1:21:43can't build by streams.

1:21:45>> But then you wind up with no uplands.

1:21:47You wind up with no uplands beside the

1:21:48buffer in this right area. You wind up

1:21:50with no uplands.

1:21:54By upland you mean beside the buffer?

1:21:56>> Yeah, make sure everything

1:21:57>> Yeah. Yeah.

1:21:58>> I understand what you're saying and I

1:21:59agree.

1:22:01But where we have it now it isn't.

1:22:11>> Can I make a significant point on that?

1:22:13You know, that that there is an It's not

1:22:16called Eno Newhall. It is. It has a

1:22:19different name now, but there was an Eno

1:22:20Newhall wildlife habitat connectivity

1:22:24model

1:22:26um that's out there that actually has

1:22:28modeled viable

1:22:30corridors.

1:22:32If you just overlay that over on top of

1:22:35our property,

1:22:36because if you do the 30 by 30 we know

1:22:38pixel. If you overlay that on our

1:22:40property,

1:22:41we might be able to see where the warm

1:22:44or cold or areas are.

1:22:46Because it does have the corridors and

1:22:48then they have a habitat.

1:22:50So, it may just be a matter of having an

1:22:52additional map

1:22:55or doing some modeling in the town of

1:22:56Medina.

1:22:57Using these first like that.

1:23:00So, we can do that.

1:23:01>> Yeah.

1:23:04>> So, the only thing

1:23:06that I think we

1:23:07should strike if you guys are

1:23:08considering it is that they

1:23:10shall be able to approve those type of

1:23:12habitat reservation. Um,

1:23:14they still have to go through that

1:23:15process of coming to

1:23:17essentially discover that that we don't

1:23:19have that.

1:23:20So, this

1:23:21I mean I don't know if they they come

1:23:22back and they may agree that it's not to

1:23:23come back to you guys. And then you will

1:23:26be able to see or approve it over in our

1:23:28department of planning.

1:23:30But if they suggest that they elect to

1:23:32go with the reserve habitat connecting

1:23:33to the corridors and provide or use some

1:23:35type of tool that you had and they're

1:23:37showing that

1:23:38or their their application that they're

1:23:40producing then

1:23:41I don't know if you guys want to have

1:23:44anything.

1:23:45You guys have to put a percentage to

1:23:47review and approve

1:23:49proposed habitat areas.

1:23:51>> Well, my hope would be that they review

1:23:53this first before handing the site.

1:23:56Like that they wanted to do and then

1:23:57they would present to us a map and say,

1:24:00"Here is how we are preserving

1:24:03and it doesn't mean that they

1:24:04necessarily don't assess them.

1:24:06They have to be able to protect

1:24:08protecting contiguous habitat.

1:24:13I mean, part of my challenge with us not

1:24:16having any review or approval is

1:24:23leaving it open to position.

1:24:25>> We we don't we don't have the ability

1:24:28to approve anything.

1:24:30We have the ability

1:24:31>> [clears throat]

1:24:32>> to approve recommendations.

1:24:35>> Um yeah, I get you. I get you. You're

1:24:38You're looking at the map of what

1:24:39they're proposing.

1:24:41It could change. It could change, but

1:24:43like if in general we agree with this.

1:24:46If they all agree to this, then they'll

1:24:47all be voting on the grants.

1:24:49So, the bubble diagram is ready to be

1:24:50mapped.

1:24:52Then we'll do it.

1:24:57If that

1:24:58you know, new hope type of that.

1:25:01So,

1:25:03>> [clears throat]

1:25:07>> Anything that needs to be done?

1:25:13It could eventually be revisited again

1:25:15in the future. We also get it in this

1:25:16round or something.

1:25:17>> Yes, the board the board

1:25:20has that.

1:25:21>> And and ideally that they will probably

1:25:23be voting on.

1:25:24Thanks for that ambitious situation.

1:25:26Yeah, I think that

1:25:26>> We're already on a mission, already.

1:25:28>> Yeah.

1:25:30And I know this.

1:25:31You know, Nora, I'm happy for you to

1:25:33share what I've seen

1:25:35with others. Um

1:25:37And what I would just share before is

1:25:38that they're still looking at the

1:25:39infrastructure. That's good.

1:25:42This is a lot to do.

1:25:43Um

1:25:45The other one I have is alternative

1:25:46transportation connectivity.

1:25:49The projects are to provide pedestrian

1:25:50and bicycle greenway connections after

1:25:52all of the long meeting that

1:25:54that has to do with the development.

1:25:57And where it's going to be able to

1:25:58connect to existing or planned

1:25:59facilities on adjacent properties and in

1:26:02the surrounding area.

1:26:04And there's greenway.

1:26:06>> So, yeah, they're they're already T and

1:26:08E and and also I mean and and

1:26:10transportation are already looking at

1:26:11these things and working with our, you

1:26:13know, future

1:26:15planning after that.

1:26:18Besides where they can be going on the

1:26:32>> I guess

1:26:33are there instances where

1:26:35it's not required, but it could be

1:26:38provided?

1:26:39That's

1:26:42>> Most likely they will always have They

1:26:44will always have to provide at least

1:26:46some type of pedestrian connectivity and

1:26:47there will be some type of sidewalk or

1:26:50somewhere on the site. It may be

1:26:51internally. Um

1:26:53Remember anywhere you're outside of the

1:26:56disturbing natural area that would be

1:26:58allowed to be staying on site areas?

1:27:01disturbing area you guys want to

1:27:03preserve

1:27:06>> Well, I mean

1:27:09this is not but it is to within our site

1:27:12but

1:27:15but I mean it doesn't benefit the park

1:27:16or the residential properties.

1:27:18It's more of a decision now.

1:27:22But

1:27:23feel like that's why

1:27:25being in the park room because we did

1:27:26have a board member several years ago

1:27:28who was very concerned about

1:27:30connectivity. So, we got away from that

1:27:32because it wasn't monumental in the

1:27:34zoning commitment.

1:27:36>> Mhm.

1:27:36>> So, having something like that would

1:27:38address

1:27:41There's a new subdivision going in down

1:27:44Old US 1 towards the old hill and they

1:27:46put a sidewalk in

1:27:49across from the subdivision on the

1:27:51railroad side.

1:27:53I'm hoping at some point the plan is

1:27:56it's going to connect, but right now

1:27:57it's the sidewalk to nowhere. But yeah,

1:28:00I mean that

1:28:02I agree with you there needs to be

1:28:04>> I've seen that one.

1:28:05>> You've seen it, yes.

1:28:06>> Yeah, but it can I be extended I guess,

1:28:08but

1:28:09>> But it's very odd.

1:28:11>> [clears throat and laughter]

1:28:12>> Maybe it'll help for us

1:28:14have a presentation by the

1:28:15transportation group to tell us like

1:28:19Let's review the plans for greenways,

1:28:21sidewalks. I mean like but I know

1:28:23there's road sections and all that have

1:28:26things, but

1:28:29I mean like

1:28:31there's some that don't.

1:28:32That's So there isn't any sidewalk like

1:28:36or it's one side, you know, and

1:28:39doesn't create a very walkable

1:28:41environment.

1:28:42Um I have this little neighborhood that

1:28:44does have sidewalks. It does have

1:28:45connection to greenway. I live there for

1:28:47that reason.

1:28:49But I don't know fully

1:28:51what all of our codes are requiring.

1:28:54>> W- One issue with the more sidewalks you

1:28:56have, the more storm water you get so

1:28:58you can achieve it.

1:29:01I mean there's there's going to be a

1:29:02trade-off.

1:29:04>> Yeah, there are trade-offs, but don't

1:29:05you get more storm water issues from

1:29:08having to build bigger roads because you

1:29:10have more cars on the road? So

1:29:13long-term ultimate goal is to get people

1:29:15out of their cars. It's to encourage

1:29:17alternative transportation, buses, and

1:29:19rail, and

1:29:22>> This needs some of the transportation to

1:29:23have to explain

1:29:25um current plans and how that all works

1:29:27together.

1:29:28>> I feel like that would be a good idea.

1:29:29>> Yeah, I I we're already working

1:29:32activity. It It is a

1:29:36>> But this is only true for a residential

1:29:39>> No, no.

1:29:40>> But uh but a

1:29:41rural area

1:29:42But if it is a rural area then

1:29:49enforceable, right?

1:29:50>> So if it it would have to be some kind

1:29:52of regional

1:29:53or like a county.

1:29:55It's only in certain areas. You can't

1:29:57just have anything. A rural rural

1:29:58development has to be the same with its

1:30:00sidewalks or something.

1:30:05>> [clears throat]

1:30:06>> All of these

1:30:07greenways they don't currently have

1:30:09anything greenway

1:30:11>> Question on whether or not

1:30:14the town supports green roofs, but

1:30:17again, it's an optional zoning

1:30:18condition.

1:30:20And it just says, you know, if they

1:30:21wanted to put in a green roof, then

1:30:23that's what it would be. 40% of eligible

1:30:25roof area

1:30:26shall be designed and constructed to

1:30:28the city code.

1:30:30On location configuration, plant shall

1:30:32drain into irrigation for hardscape or

1:30:35honestly determine the same thing.

1:30:40The benefits of green roofs are

1:30:42water rebates, habitat benefit,

1:30:46shading, you know, one of the things

1:30:48that we look at is, you know, reducing

1:30:49urban heat island, but

1:30:51it's about nature.

1:30:53As cool as roof surfaces.

1:30:56Cisterns and water reuse.

1:30:58Uh the project shall install a cistern

1:31:00or a rainwater harvesting system. This

1:31:02one says amenity center, but it's

1:31:03actually um it says it's intended to be

1:31:05residential property.

1:31:08They have another version that I copied

1:31:10the wrong email from, where it's just um

1:31:12they'll install it in a building or

1:31:14whatever

1:31:16to capture roof runoff for reuse in

1:31:18landscape irrigation or other permitted

1:31:20non-potable on-site uses.

1:31:23>> This one even building to talk to the

1:31:25Department of Town and Village Affairs

1:31:27also has

1:31:28uh along with having stormwater

1:31:29retention to control the

1:31:31the peak as well with that holding tank

1:31:34before it goes out there. It didn't have

1:31:36water flowing down here, so whatever we

1:31:37have to be careful on the sizes.

1:31:39The system that it ends uh with the goal

1:31:42of this just to be to use on on

1:31:44landscaping that is with the potable

1:31:46water.

1:31:47>> Correct.

1:31:48I mean, it could be used on landscaping,

1:31:49you can also use cisterns to water

1:31:51things like

1:31:52um

1:31:54what field

1:31:56You can use them to water

1:31:59like what tennis

1:32:01you know, there's there's various

1:32:02different

1:32:04ways to to use cistern water. And I mean

1:32:07you still have to meet pretty close to

1:32:09the need of

1:32:10water.

1:32:11And so I mean I think that would still

1:32:13be accurate in that there's no water

1:32:14coming to you

1:32:15as it goes through the life cycle of the

1:32:17project. They would be using

1:32:19>> It would, but I I still think it would

1:32:20get complicated because then also if if

1:32:22it is from a toxic industrial business,

1:32:25then I would never do this for sports

1:32:27fields and things like that. And so they

1:32:29would also

1:32:30>> How are you billing them for the water

1:32:30bill?

1:32:31>> People who water don't get billed. If

1:32:32there was ever saying anything we're not

1:32:34putting in there.

1:32:34>> You're right. That's the water bill.

1:32:35This one is charged to the air.

1:32:37Plus

1:32:39I I know. I want to talk about it.

1:32:41>> We're doing it in Raleigh for the

1:32:43stormwater and stormwater project, but

1:32:45we are a lot of different groups from

1:32:48our office.

1:32:48>> Yeah, I know.

1:32:53>> It is a It is one of the environmental

1:32:55aspects of the property development. I

1:32:57mean it's It's human waste. They're

1:32:59there and they're there and

1:33:01I mean it's not significant, but it's

1:33:03something. And they're

1:33:05And they can be visible or non-visible,

1:33:07but when they are visible they're

1:33:11>> I think one problem with cisterns is

1:33:13that how big are you going to make them?

1:33:16Because if it's a barrel, it doesn't

1:33:17hold hardly any water. I mean it might

1:33:20hold a quarter inch of storm rain.

1:33:22>> that a rain barrel?

1:33:24>> Yeah, but I I ran through the numbers at

1:33:27one time and you have to have an awful

1:33:28lot of barrels. I think you're almost

1:33:30better off to try to push that

1:33:31stormwater pond, honestly.

1:33:33>> Well,

1:33:34>> to go bigger because

1:33:37I'm I'm not sure you're willing to put

1:33:45Okay.

1:33:45>> And they are

1:33:47I can show you examples of cisterns.

1:33:49They're not just the rainwater barrels.

1:33:50They can be quite large. They can even

1:33:52be underground.

1:33:53But they they protect and then they

1:33:55release and they

1:33:57release either as irrigation or they can

1:34:00release it on their own but

1:34:03you can get more assistance but

1:34:06>> I think it'd be interesting cuz I come

1:34:08from California and I tried 50-gallon

1:34:10barrels to try to collect the water off

1:34:12my roof

1:34:13and this was like that fast the things

1:34:15filled up

1:34:16cuz it it just

1:34:18it's difficult to get a large enough

1:34:20volume. You can calculate it out.

1:34:22>> use it for the storm water pond. These

1:34:24things do go through the storm water

1:34:26review. So, it determines how much you

1:34:28can capture and then how much needs to

1:34:29go into alternative methods.

1:34:32And the release rate is all of storm

1:34:34water regulation.

1:34:36And I can get

1:34:38>> Really, I mean

1:34:40cisterns like think about some of the

1:34:41older neighborhoods in the 80s and

1:34:43earlier with uh

1:34:44Ed Hall and and also Shelly's Landing,

1:34:47Jala wanted Old Woods, Noland

1:34:50that don't have ponds and designed with

1:34:52any storm water

1:34:54measures in mind in the 80s and earlier.

1:34:58I've often thought like if a mass

1:35:00deployment of cisterns to the

1:35:02neighborhood could provide something and

1:35:04if the math would work out and I have no

1:35:06idea what the math would be, you know,

1:35:08to to sort of improve their storm water

1:35:11situation on their creek that runs

1:35:12through the neighborhood.

1:35:13Um so,

1:35:15I think it uh

1:35:17it's that I mean it's something we

1:35:17talked about with wasn't there one

1:35:19development that um

1:35:20Carl wanted to do where they couldn't

1:35:22have a storm water pond room? He's like,

1:35:24"Well, I could just big cisterns on all

1:35:26the houses and it'll be the It was like

1:35:28four houses or something.

1:35:30Um so, I think the idea has merit but I

1:35:32also think beyond just a zoning

1:35:33condition of asking someone to do it,

1:35:35like they could dig a bigger pond. I

1:35:37think I'm thinking more of the situation

1:35:39where

1:35:40existing neighborhoods

1:35:42don't have ponds, can't get a pond cuz

1:35:45you you'd have to pay a million dollars

1:35:46and knock down a house or two to start.

1:35:49Um

1:35:49could the town, you know, could be

1:35:51champion a program that would find

1:35:54funding to deploy these to the

1:35:55neighborhoods or at least the

1:35:58you know, the the higher parts of the

1:35:59neighborhood and and try to give them

1:36:01some storm water measure. And and again,

1:36:04would the math work out that it would be

1:36:05meaningful or like Bill is saying, would

1:36:07it just be you know, [clears throat]

1:36:09a decent amount but like it's a drop in

1:36:10the bucket of the overall cost.

1:36:13>> I'll tell you when we're sitting here, I

1:36:14did a quick

1:36:15calculation

1:36:17for a

1:36:20Well, I did 4,000 square feet, 2,000

1:36:22square foot house.

1:36:23A tenth of an inch is about a or a tenth

1:36:26of a foot, so you're looking at

1:36:27200 cubic feet

1:36:30of water off of a 1-in storm.

1:36:33That's That's where the problem comes

1:36:35in, I think. And then if you multiply

1:36:36that by eight to get the gallons,

1:36:38you got 1,600 gallons coming off of the

1:36:41roof

1:36:42from a 1-in storm.

1:36:44And

1:36:46>> individual residences is a big

1:36:48difference.

1:36:49Say this is more I mean,

1:36:51if it's if it's for an individual

1:36:53residence or for residences, it's kind

1:36:54of

1:36:57I don't know what you want to call it,

1:36:58but it's not significant impact.

1:37:01I would think this is more for

1:37:02commercial and where it's like they

1:37:04already plan on having irrigation and it

1:37:06keeps them from having potable water for

1:37:08irrigation.

1:37:09And so, they're using it for irrigation

1:37:11purposes.

1:37:13Or they're using it you know,

1:37:16Yes, that's generally what it's used

1:37:18for. It is for irrigation and it's easy

1:37:20for

1:37:20reducing potable water use for

1:37:23irrigation.

1:37:24>> But you I I really don't don't believe

1:37:26you could go to just a

1:37:28a cistern barrels, you'd almost have to

1:37:30build a

1:37:31cement concrete

1:37:33catch basin. I've seen those on old

1:37:35house old old houses. That's where I

1:37:37thought you'd have to go.

1:37:39>> I mean, just like a rain barrel. So,

1:37:41they are they're big and like I said,

1:37:43sometimes they're even underground

1:37:45and they're built in as part of the

1:37:47irrigation system where

1:37:49you know, it knows how much you have and

1:37:51then it taps the water meter for

1:37:53additional water. They're they're big.

1:37:56I can give you guys more than

1:37:58For the sake of time, I'll suggest we

1:38:00move on.

1:38:02A minimum of 1% of permanent open space

1:38:04area shall be planted as pollinator

1:38:06habitat.

1:38:08And this we didn't have anything in

1:38:09there really about pollinator habitat.

1:38:11We just They couldn't prevent pollinator

1:38:12habitat, I think, but nothing in

1:38:14particular on that.

1:38:15>> There's a speaker speaker speaker

1:38:16speaker.

1:38:22>> Uh 13

1:38:24It's

1:38:25It's actually my favorite.

1:38:26>> Say that one

1:38:27>> It states to the project on sure that

1:38:29100% of the landscaping shall be native

1:38:30species and shall provide a diverse

1:38:32component pollinator food bird food

1:38:34sources.

1:38:35Special attention shall be provided to

1:38:37diverse abundant pollinator bird food

1:38:39resources including plants that bloom in

1:38:41succession through the fall. Landscaping

1:38:43should be coordinated with and approved

1:38:45by the client.

1:38:48>> Okay, good. So, I missed that. Um

1:38:50Does it give a percentage of the

1:38:52landscape or

1:38:53>> Yes.

1:38:54>> Okay. 100% 100% of the

1:38:57>> According, um I think that one

1:39:00specifically I think in some fashion it

1:39:02pairs well with the green roofs.

1:39:04Would that be something that

1:39:06the division can suggest?

1:39:08Um if if they're building green roofs,

1:39:11why don't we just go ahead and

1:39:13create a

1:39:15pollinator habitat?

1:39:16>> Makes sense.

1:39:17I mean, it's a legal document

1:39:19or add that to the green roof one that

1:39:22recommended

1:39:24the pollinator

1:39:27>> Can you speak a little on the native

1:39:28forest establishment? I don't know if I

1:39:30missed that.

1:39:32>> I skipped it. I'm sorry.

1:39:35Um

1:39:36Native forest establishment The project

1:39:37shall establish a minimum of 400 square

1:39:39feet or acres of densely planted native

1:39:42forest vegetation consisting of multiple

1:39:44vegetative layers including native

1:39:46canopy trees, understory trees, and

1:39:47shrubs.

1:39:48The planting area shall be designed to

1:39:50establish a naturalized forest community

1:39:53shall be maintained by the property

1:39:54owner or association.

1:39:56Um

1:39:58It's the idea that a lot of our

1:40:00landscape recommendations are generally

1:40:04um

1:40:05outside of buffers are generally uh

1:40:09not targeted towards this, you know,

1:40:11they're they're targeted for more

1:40:12aesthetic reasons, screening reasons.

1:40:15Um

1:40:17And a lot of times like they favor

1:40:20we they favor protecting trees, but we

1:40:21don't necessarily

1:40:23favor the recreation of forests.

1:40:26And so

1:40:28this would be the idea of taking like

1:40:29you have a site like one of the ones we

1:40:31reviewed the last time which a lot of

1:40:33the courses are in their

1:40:34former farm state trying to be

1:40:36established as forest community.

1:40:38Um replacement on site.

1:40:42>> This this is already codified

1:40:43essentially.

1:40:44>> It is a requirement for RCA if they have

1:40:47areas that

1:40:48sufficient material they're required

1:40:51several

1:40:52feet of

1:40:53a certain distance of forest material.

1:40:56>> Again, for RCA it's not necessarily

1:41:02but

1:41:06>> We have to we do have to play

1:41:08I don't know if you had I'm not I'm not

1:41:10sure if I have to be able to I have to

1:41:11be able to

1:41:12you're already reducing

1:41:14then getting a game or eight or just one

1:41:16footage for this

1:41:18already to be inside that's like 30% of

1:41:20the area already. We just have to be

1:41:22able to work with the developer if you

1:41:23want to stand that and that's

1:41:25I mean it's going to go into other

1:41:26things and

1:41:28It it may be in

1:41:29>> RCA that was just trees.

1:41:32>> Bruce Bruce

1:41:33it may be helpful though to to

1:41:35differentiate between the canopy and the

1:41:38understory.

1:41:42But, try to get them to to diversify.

1:41:46One of the one of the things

1:41:49You know, I mean, we're we're trying to

1:41:50do that, but trying to limit the

1:41:52percentage of native plants.

1:41:55Or native trees.

1:41:56We're trying to create a little more

1:41:58diversity there.

1:42:00Maybe maybe putting putting that

1:42:02language in what we've got already.

1:42:07One of our other conditions.

1:42:12To me, that that that sounds helpful.

1:42:14>> It You already You already have

1:42:17We have conditions for native species

1:42:19already in it.

1:42:21So, we're re-enforcing um

1:42:24Maybe we can we can talk about that

1:42:25more. I just

1:42:27It's

1:42:28>> I agree that the developer's not

1:42:30That's never going to get it done.

1:42:32>> Okay, so we don't have to do extra, but

1:42:34I think to John's point

1:42:37maybe we need to encourage understory

1:42:39planting.

1:42:40We can put in

1:42:42CA

1:42:44Maybe we can do a video update as

1:42:46opposed to a PAP recommendation, but

1:42:50Um

1:42:51>> So, the challenge and this is where it

1:42:53gets a little more polluted is because

1:42:56prescriptions made at the state level

1:42:58where we can actually amend

1:43:00in our our ordinance itself because

1:43:02we've got performance standards. We're

1:43:04going to be we're not residential

1:43:06property.

1:43:07That a lot of this is going to have to

1:43:08be kind of addressed

1:43:10through the native species at the

1:43:12ordinance and then the ordinance itself.

1:43:14>> Okay.

1:43:14>> So, there there is that there is that

1:43:16change in the

1:43:17very narrow thread through the city

1:43:19hall.

1:43:20>> So, it could be rewritten so that

1:43:23um

1:43:24a couple of native species

1:43:26for CA plants could include additional

1:43:28understory.

1:43:30Is that an option?

1:43:33>> Uh Andrew, what do you think of that?

1:43:34>> I

1:43:36>> I have a question about all these

1:43:39native forests and the the corridors

1:43:42that

1:43:43we're we I think we all want this.

1:43:47How do we enforce it? Like who goes out

1:43:50and who says you know what, this is

1:43:51good, check.

1:43:53>> [clears throat]

1:43:53>> The town doesn't have a natural resource

1:43:55department.

1:43:56Are the developers hiring environmental

1:43:59fellows?

1:44:01Who hydrologists or arborists? Like

1:44:03who comes and and says this is okay?

1:44:06Because we're not going out to the site.

1:44:08>> I think that's a great question because

1:44:10I don't understand why the way of doing

1:44:13things everywhere seems to be let's

1:44:16clear cut, flatten it, and then

1:44:20put whatever here and there and and

1:44:22taking what tree canopy there is and

1:44:25changing the whole terrain.

1:44:27>> I think I think we all want this, but

1:44:29how do we how [clears throat] do we

1:44:31successfully

1:44:33deploy it or or enforce it or you know

1:44:36suggest it? Um

1:44:38Do you think the test required that they

1:44:39hire doctors to get out and provide uh

1:44:43just enough of those?

1:44:45>> Just an arborist.

1:44:46>> Just just arborist go out and certify

1:44:48the gate or see areas. Arborist are

1:44:51towards the tree save areas to make sure

1:44:53that they are appropriate and they need

1:44:54to attend it.

1:44:55And the organic first service science

1:44:57for various

1:44:59>> But but does your statement anything

1:45:01about a biologist?

1:45:10So it falls a little short of I guess

1:45:13our vision.

1:45:16But we wouldn't know

1:45:18how things should come.

1:45:20I just I go ahead and say

1:45:22>> I just feel I think do understand forest

1:45:24communities and what it comprises of

1:45:26forest communities whether or not the

1:45:29town requires that in their reporting. I

1:45:32don't know.

1:45:32>> So, what are the colleges?

1:45:34Maybe be a better fit instead of an

1:45:36arborist.

1:45:38Okay, I think arborist are important.

1:45:40>> Susan absolutely. Susan is nodding yes

1:45:42over there.

1:45:43>> [laughter]

1:45:44>> But yeah, I yeah,

1:45:46maybe an ecologist or compared with a

1:45:49compared with an ecologist. But

1:45:52>> Well, the town does have at least one

1:45:53arborist. How many do we have?

1:45:55>> We just have one. That's all we have is

1:45:57one.

1:46:00>> Um just so the video is saying now and

1:46:03under the RCA section it says what is

1:46:05sufficient amount of RCA available. So,

1:46:07that would be ideally the undisturbed

1:46:09healthy forest areas. Um

1:46:12and undisturbed non-vegetated areas that

1:46:14meet the minimum size standards for RCA

1:46:16and is planted to achieve a diverse

1:46:18native plant population by including

1:46:20large canopy tree layers, small

1:46:21understory tree layers, and ground

1:46:23layers shall be allowed.

1:46:24So, they already have to apply to

1:46:26>> Yeah.

1:46:27>> So, because already the things needed.

1:46:31>> Um that's part of this process here

1:46:33before we have

1:46:35So, right now we do have a modified

1:46:36language that

1:46:40Guys, which there is just about the

1:46:41right amount of So, right now we can

1:46:43just modify that.

1:46:44for other development.

1:46:46So, this one

1:46:48But we do have a native plant so it's

1:46:49sufficient for a certain percentage of

1:46:51rated spots.

1:46:52>> Okay. So, you already have it here.

1:46:55Which base is shrubs?

1:46:57>> That's the big question for RCA is

1:47:01>> Can I request a 5-minute break?

1:47:04>> Okay. So, we have a motion for a

1:47:065-minute break.

1:47:07>> I'll make the motion.

1:47:08>> I'll second.

1:47:09>> All right.

1:51:51>> How much weight do you want for the last

1:51:53few incentive?

1:51:55We do whatever you need to do to get the

1:51:56points.

1:51:58And then

1:51:59come back.

1:52:03>> Okay. All right.

1:52:05>> Oh, do we need a motion?

1:52:07>> This is automatic.

1:52:10I'll take you back.

1:52:11>> I can't spend it all day.

1:52:13>> It has no meaning.

1:52:16>> There is

1:52:17There is nothing under using like

1:52:19reclaimed materials in the general

1:52:21requirements.

1:52:2220 points.

1:52:24And um

1:52:28The one of most common that people can

1:52:29do is like

1:52:31re-use trees at home or re-use trees

1:52:35that have been through some things. Like

1:52:36if you have to knock it down, you can

1:52:38re-use it again on site.

1:52:40But then

1:52:41this also speaks to uh using regional

1:52:44resource materials, so not having to go

1:52:47as far to

1:52:49go over to the building and do the

1:52:50covering and stuff.

1:52:51So, this one's about regional reclaimed

1:52:53materials.

1:52:54The project shall incorporate locally or

1:52:56regionally sourced reclaimed or salvaged

1:52:58recycled or salvaged materials used to

1:52:59satisfy requirements.

1:53:02Both kinds of credits may be awarded if

1:53:04any landscape structure site furniture

1:53:06recreational features at the base or

1:53:08other site features.

1:53:10They want to demolish everything on the

1:53:12two solid development sites shall be

1:53:15prioritized for achieving.

1:53:19I don't know what you guys think about

1:53:20that conclusion.

1:53:24First you have the inches.

1:53:29>> You educate me on the details.

1:53:31Yes, it does.

1:53:33>> Um the benefit is that you are

1:53:36going far and wide to

1:53:38both materials.

1:53:40So if you can get um

1:53:42you know, materials from a local vendor

1:53:45or whatever you can find here closer by,

1:53:47that's preferable

1:53:48from an environmental standpoint.

1:53:51Um

1:53:52Do you do the same thing with the other

1:53:53materials?

1:53:54People.

1:53:56And then also

1:53:58we're using uh

1:54:00only using mulch is better for

1:54:03a lot of

1:54:05Um do they weigh more?

1:54:07>> I don't think so.

1:54:10>> You know, that makes me think of one

1:54:12about um

1:54:14operations and maintenance building

1:54:15building.

1:54:16>> Follow one.

1:54:18>> It may be a little bit more difficult.

1:54:20But

1:54:21you know.

1:54:23Um

1:54:24I have one on construction here.

1:54:27Uh

1:54:29Construction is the goal to get the

1:54:30other up there to see like final

1:54:33products or where they're involved in

1:54:35the construction.

1:54:37I did try to look at one that would be

1:54:39done. It said the pro- the project shall

1:54:41establish the implementing construction

1:54:44and demolition material management plan

1:54:46that prioritizes reuse, salvage, and

1:54:47recycling

1:54:49for beneficial repurposing of material

1:54:51generated on site.

1:54:53Materials to be reused shall include

1:54:55where available suitable concrete,

1:54:57steel, soil, asphalt that we're

1:54:58replacing.

1:55:03The primary

1:55:04stuff going into the waste stream,

1:55:06reusing it where you can.

1:55:13It's a challenging one.

1:55:15In the sense that

1:55:25>> If you review as a board or I had an

1:55:28applicant before you

1:55:29What is the simple word or the

1:55:31suggestions

1:55:33This one.

1:55:36The types of types of things you would

1:55:38consider as a

1:55:39subdivision was green field.

1:55:42The types of things that

1:55:44that you want to see in both of them.

1:55:49>> Bricks.

1:55:50Like someone's knocking down bricks

1:55:53or used bricks for example.

1:55:56Concrete, you know, you can crush

1:55:58concrete and use it as base.

1:56:02Or incorporate it as an aggregate into

1:56:04materials.

1:56:07Reusing soil I think makes sense if it's

1:56:10beneficial soil.

1:56:11>> I think we had a thing about soil.

1:56:16>> I think the motion that added

1:56:18>> No, I thought it was

1:56:20I'm thinking of the incorporation.

1:56:35>> Yeah, 21.

1:56:39>> I'm good.

1:56:43>> So, solar ready basically construction.

1:56:48So, so, solar ready. Readiness for a

1:56:51solar.

1:56:55So, they they they're solar specific.

1:56:57So, do you have a

1:56:58we have one ticket?

1:56:59>> Yeah.

1:57:06>> We have one of our meetings containing

1:57:08up.

1:57:16So this would be more like

1:57:19>> Well, it depends. So like for your

1:57:20company or for other other big projects

1:57:22or other types of materials.

1:57:28>> And there might be also

1:57:30the ability to send something to a

1:57:32recycling plant as opposed to like a

1:57:34burning plant.

1:57:37I think that's a good question that we

1:57:38have not been asking. When there are

1:57:41structures on properties, where where is

1:57:44the material going?

1:57:50And it's something that we could do more

1:57:52research on. We want to figure it out,

1:57:54but

1:57:55waste is a big part of

1:57:59environmental impact with those

1:58:01landfills.

1:58:06>> I think I think there's something there.

1:58:07It is putting the question out there

1:58:08something

1:58:10You guys really are getting

1:58:13And I think I think I can come to the

1:58:15developer and say I'm going to

1:58:17put one house on my 100 acre property.

1:58:19I'll I'll be I'll settle with that. The

1:58:21bricks will be in there, but you're not

1:58:22getting much for

1:58:26>> The landfill we have um

1:58:29We are

1:58:30trying to incorporate integrated pest

1:58:32management practices intended to

1:58:33minimize routine pesticide herbicide and

1:58:35synthetic fertilizer use.

1:58:37And we'll be limiting priority areas to

1:58:39areas where treatment is necessary

1:58:41rather than treating the entire

1:58:42property.

1:58:45I'd love cuz there's funding submitted

1:58:47to actually implement it. Where you have

1:58:50been you're talking about business or

1:58:52even an HOA, find a a company that would

1:58:55actually

1:58:56follow

1:58:59>> I think it's

1:59:00>> Yeah, I mean, they just don't

1:59:04I mean, they're few and far between.

1:59:06If you're a place where you're trying to

1:59:07do things with an HOA, you're looking at

1:59:09a gamble.

1:59:10We hired this company number one for the

1:59:11house.

1:59:12>> Yeah, and we do what they try.

1:59:13>> And these other people

1:59:15>> Our neighborhood's doing that right now.

1:59:18>> And it cost them all $5,000.

1:59:20>> They're trying to do it in the best way.

1:59:22>> They're They're

1:59:23having them basically re-look at

1:59:25everything that the developer had put in

1:59:28place with the HOA company that they

1:59:31originally picked.

1:59:32And now they're having to basically redo

1:59:36everything.

1:59:38And some of that is

1:59:40people don't want to pay

1:59:43that weren't in there before. And so

1:59:46which thing? I I love it, but on the

1:59:49flip side

1:59:50I see the other side where everybody's

1:59:52complaining.

1:59:53So

1:59:56>> What about

1:59:57us providing them a list of uh

2:00:00possible vendors that we somehow

2:00:03>> I like that.

2:00:04I like that.

2:00:05Yeah.

2:00:05>> I think now

2:00:07>> I can't

2:00:07>> You're not supposed to provide them.

2:00:09And if you're not

2:00:11>> Okay.

2:00:15>> It happens with specific vendors.

2:00:16Sometimes they have to choose from them.

2:00:18And they all get some of those vendors.

2:00:20>> business

2:00:20>> That vendors are no longer available

2:00:22here.

2:00:23>> Instead of vendors, could you just say

2:00:27have you considered

2:00:29doing

2:00:31this?

2:00:33>> I think that's a good

2:00:34conversation to have in the future with

2:00:36you.

2:00:37That's what the word

2:00:38I I think that they may come back with

2:00:40something similar to what Susan said.

2:00:43And off setting the cost of the HOA

2:00:45itself. It's It's a challenge, but I

2:00:48mean, for each project that's up to you

2:00:49guys to discuss whether if it's worth

2:00:51that effort.

2:00:53It may be quite a challenge. We I think

2:00:55we would probably have additional

2:00:58things that are really tough

2:01:00getting into what that aspect looks

2:01:01like.

2:01:04That kind of thing. If you get 30, we

2:01:06can even find it probably a lot of

2:01:11>> So,

2:01:12on the [clears throat] maintenance side,

2:01:13I think I was going through my last

2:01:15call.

2:01:17So, we we have a regulation that we

2:01:20should plant so so many trees, okay? For

2:01:23construction, and they they plant it at

2:01:26From a maintenance perspective,

2:01:29the survival rate, right?

2:01:312 years later, they're like, you know,

2:01:33they just

2:01:35planted 20 trees, okay? And it passed

2:01:38the regulation like, okay, they are

2:01:40meeting that.

2:01:41But the survival rate is, you know, is

2:01:44still not at 100%.

2:01:47So, so we are losing. From a maintenance

2:01:49perspective, do we have anything like,

2:01:52you know,

2:01:53that 3 years, 5 years later falls fall

2:01:56off?

2:01:57From a maintenance perspective, that is

2:01:59that

2:02:04>> One is a lot of times the S people like

2:02:06there's a tree that died and going over

2:02:08there is supposed to be there. We

2:02:09require There's part of the approval to

2:02:11keep three trees.

2:02:12We have We don't know about it, so we

2:02:14have to wake up.

2:02:15Go out.

2:02:18The first 3 years you should be

2:02:21inspected. Do regular inspections and

2:02:23then keep your check there and make sure

2:02:24that they stay alive over the first 3

2:02:26years, but anything that dies is getting

2:02:28to be a challenge

2:02:30for maintenance.

2:02:31>> Do we have a specific channel where

2:02:33people can call in

2:02:35where they see a problem?

2:02:36>> I mean, go through the voicemail.

2:02:39>> [clears throat]

2:02:39>> If it's if it's property that we have

2:02:41department had

2:02:42like that. Like

2:02:43>> Is there a direct line for people to do

2:02:44that, so

2:02:46how do how do they do it easily?

2:02:48You know, I go down and I look at uh

2:02:50Kroger's parking lot and there's trees

2:02:51here and there.

2:02:53And as part of the color of the person

2:02:55>> There's some over at the middle school.

2:02:57>> Yeah.

2:02:58>> You can submit a report of complaints

2:03:00through the town's website. You can pick

2:03:02a category of complaints if it's

2:03:06>> Okay.

2:03:09See, I've been around for

2:03:1183 years and I didn't even know that.

2:03:12>> Oh, I'd love the report of complaints.

2:03:15>> [laughter]

2:03:16>> But that does that only apply when it

2:03:19was part of the zoning?

2:03:22>> Uh the board of appeals

2:03:24So Well, there there are tree

2:03:25requirements

2:03:27as part of the UDO itself and then there

2:03:29may be additional tree requirements as

2:03:30part of the zoning.

2:03:33So, but they both apply unless one

2:03:36overrides the other. But they both

2:03:37usually both apply, so the tree is

2:03:39required in the parking

2:03:41tree requirement criteria.

2:03:44>> I I think you mentioned something about

2:03:47about the fact that something

2:03:49we or

2:03:50powers that be don't know if it's

2:03:52supposed to be there or not.

2:03:53>> We can look at the plans. We have the

2:03:55plans to look at. I was saying more so

2:03:57the individuals

2:03:59who drive by every day, who live in the

2:04:00neighborhood that didn't know that

2:04:02they're supposed to replant a tree yet.

2:04:04Yeah, so they don't know to call or let

2:04:05us know or contact HOA, so it gets lost

2:04:08there.

2:04:09>> Is it possible to suggest or enforce

2:04:12tree tagging?

2:04:14Like tree tags, like metal tree tags.

2:04:17Uh

2:04:18Anybody familiar with that?

2:04:19>> Enforce what?

2:04:20>> Tree tags.

2:04:21>> Tree tags?

2:04:23>> And the purpose is to

2:04:25count or

2:04:26>> not to count, but for anybody I mean, if

2:04:29Bill goes

2:04:30Kroger's and he sees trees that are dead

2:04:32and and has a tree tag and it's

2:04:35part of this condition, like

2:04:37>> that should be addressed. They should be

2:04:40removed or replanted.

2:04:48>> There's nothing about our town.

2:04:50>> No, I don't know how effective it would

2:04:51be. Um

2:04:54Cuz I don't know

2:04:56I don't know if anyone would see it and

2:04:57know what that is.

2:04:59That would be a challenge to them.

2:05:02>> Would the property property owner know?

2:05:05Would you have to assess the property

2:05:07owners in my town?

2:05:09that tree is

2:05:09>> I I also don't think the property owners

2:05:11are something important.

2:05:14>> There was a tree in back of Kroger that

2:05:16had was full of mistletoe. You know, I

2:05:18did report it to our town arborist, but

2:05:20nothing I don't

2:05:22still there. Christmas is here. If

2:05:24anybody wants mistletoe.

2:05:26>> I don't think I don't know if they're

2:05:27allowed to go on private property

2:05:29>> Um should we remove mistletoe from

2:05:32>> Well, I know we can't, but I I would

2:05:34think that you could recommend to them

2:05:36and say, "Hey, your tree's going to die

2:05:38in 2 years if you don't do this."

2:05:41Um

2:05:42and then you will have to replace it.

2:05:44Cheaper to take off

2:05:46and keep a tree in quality shape than it

2:05:49is to replace it.

2:05:51I can say that was just my own personal

2:05:53>> So what

2:05:54what you think then? What should he do

2:05:56if they

2:05:57say, "We're just letting it die."

2:05:59>> And not everybody's going to know about

2:06:00the complaint thing you were talking

2:06:02about.

2:06:02>> I agree.

2:06:03>> Something we can add to the EAB page or

2:06:07something about

2:06:10tree down or you know, something. This

2:06:12is where you can report it.

2:06:14So it's more specifically easy to find.

2:06:17>> Cuz

2:06:18well, I'm I'm

2:06:19thinking should it be on the EAB page or

2:06:21should it be somewhere else?

2:06:23>> Yeah. And it could yeah, it could be

2:06:25that, too.

2:06:26>> So like

2:06:26>> I don't know if

2:06:27>> We we just lost

2:06:28>> Go to forest space

2:06:29>> Yeah.

2:06:31>> I think part of the challenge is that

2:06:32people don't know like if a tree is dead

2:06:34like

2:06:35is it is it required to be replaced or

2:06:39like is that just life it happens.

2:06:42So I think a lot of people don't report

2:06:43stuff.

2:06:44If a tree is down then that's kind of

2:06:47more of a maintenance issue and like I

2:06:48think people do.

2:06:51>> If it's a young tree

2:06:54and it's a new development I think

2:06:57I think logic would probably dictate

2:06:59that if it was part of the agreement. I

2:07:01mean I live in a neighborhood where it's

2:07:04a fairly new

2:07:05uh

2:07:06you know

2:07:07fairly new homes. There's a common area

2:07:11a field that's surrounded by trees and

2:07:14there there are tons of dead trees that

2:07:16just didn't make it for years. Um

2:07:20and I wonder

2:07:21I wonder is that you know was that part

2:07:23of the agreement? Is that supposed to be

2:07:25rectified?

2:07:27>> Is this the development that turned over

2:07:28to the residents? Did the developer bow

2:07:30out?

2:07:31>> Yeah.

2:07:31>> Okay, so now it's the HOA's

2:07:33responsibility.

2:07:35>> Sometimes there's a one year warranty on

2:07:36plant material but if it's past the one

2:07:38year and then

2:07:39sometimes even contractors negotiate

2:07:41their way out of the one year warranty.

2:07:45And I don't

2:07:46like you said the town follows up but

2:07:48like they're not checking if like

2:07:49landscape material like shrubs and stuff

2:07:51is removed and stuff like that and

2:07:53because I have clients who literally

2:07:54told me well I really don't want to do

2:07:56this so I'll put it in cuz it's required

2:07:59but I'm going to take it out.

2:08:00>> So

2:08:01or or or that's what I think it is.

2:08:03>> Mhm.

2:08:05Or if the people who came in and planted

2:08:08worked for the contract contractor or

2:08:10whatever and didn't know even what

2:08:13proper things that was our problem was

2:08:15like when our house was built they just

2:08:17plopped plants in and and and oak tree

2:08:20next to the water line and we're like

2:08:21that's not going to work so we had to

2:08:23move everything around after we moved

2:08:25in.

2:08:28>> And if they're not uh

2:08:31>> If a tree If a tree dies in your

2:08:32backyard,

2:08:33>> Like, typically, who who requires it to

2:08:35be there?

2:08:36>> I uh If you signed up on the plans and

2:08:38everything, once you retain control of

2:08:40that property, we really can't dictate

2:08:43what happens to the tree or not.

2:08:45So, HOA is a little different, but if

2:08:48you look at this as an individual

2:08:49property, you're going to have to pay

2:08:50for

2:08:51If you do it in your neighbor's if you

2:08:53die in the first place.

2:08:54>> Well, it

2:08:55>> It's a common area where

2:08:56>> Okay.

2:08:57Okay.

2:08:59>> But, in commercial areas, Bruce, do we

2:09:01have control?

2:09:02>> Yeah.

2:09:03>> It was pretty

2:09:03>> I think we would The challenge would be

2:09:05So, you'll have to probably get someone

2:09:06that's zoning compliance officer to go

2:09:07out there, go out there and review the

2:09:08plans,

2:09:09and then how it works is there's there's

2:09:11a ratio of required number of plantings.

2:09:13There's our state requirements

2:09:15on our plans.

2:09:17We

2:09:18had a tree, shrubs, and everything going

2:09:20with that offer.

2:09:21And sometimes

2:09:23sometimes they overplant and the tree

2:09:24dies. And if it died, they aren't even

2:09:25required to be there, and so that may be

2:09:27the case where it wasn't required to be

2:09:29there. They tried to put extra plantings

2:09:30in. They died. There's nothing we can do

2:09:32about that.

2:09:34So, typically, you know, if you ever see

2:09:36perimeter plantings go down, you see

2:09:38like large

2:09:40established wood areas start getting

2:09:41destroyed and things like that, that's

2:09:43absolutely call again people to go out

2:09:45there, but I think most people they

2:09:47don't see that kind of thing. They're

2:09:48probably just not noticing or thinking

2:09:50about it. You guys are all very

2:09:51conscientious individuals who care about

2:09:53trees and the environment, so anything

2:09:55You guys are also focused on some of

2:09:57these things. And you want to find

2:09:58someone to talk to. You can call and

2:10:00report it, too.

2:10:01So, talk to your neighbors and stuff

2:10:02like that.

2:10:03>> Just reminding

2:10:05>> They see trees down in HOA area. So,

2:10:07they'll reach out. The HOA itself, if

2:10:09they have a payment if you guys are in

2:10:10violation, they can call us.

2:10:12They want They don't always have to

2:10:13report. They can call us, ask us

2:10:15questions if they're required to be

2:10:18>> So, Bruce, if I know there's all these

2:10:21uh

2:10:21those conditions,

2:10:23uh environment,

2:10:25Most of them are like you know yes or no

2:10:28whether applicable or not. Applicant is

2:10:30going to do that.

2:10:31From from a decision part of decision

2:10:34side or administration side

2:10:39Are you considering anything like a

2:10:41performance scorecard based on the

2:10:44metrics capturing all this, you know

2:10:47You know this is a score.

2:10:49Um

2:10:50environment wise you know this is a

2:10:52score.

2:10:53So is it like good to have that so that

2:10:56decision can be made easily.

2:10:58Some people might be good in certain

2:11:01areas. Okay.

2:11:02Some you know water, you know, but they

2:11:05might be compromising a little bit in

2:11:07the other areas. But that gives you

2:11:09overall score.

2:11:11Decision can be a you know if you meet

2:11:14this minimum criteria you pass.

2:11:17Uh based on this kind of metrics.

2:11:20Otherwise you know we are taking yes or

2:11:22no and based on the observations we are

2:11:25giving.

2:11:26But

2:11:26but my thought is to share is get a kind

2:11:29of environmental performance score based

2:11:32on all these conditions and make a

2:11:34decision.

2:11:36>> I

2:11:37advise not grading uh

2:11:40careful grading like a score or grade

2:11:42for a per condition or item because then

2:11:46then the person that has developers

2:11:48going to come in and figure out how they

2:11:49need to hit that number that you have in

2:11:51the cheapest way possible.

2:11:53And you may not get what's best for that

2:11:55site individually. I think what's really

2:11:57interesting about what you're doing here

2:11:58with the grading kind of a scorecard for

2:12:01the board just to kind of acknowledge

2:12:03that does it is it addressing water

2:12:04quality water quality storm water

2:12:06quality

2:12:07uh waste management like how how is it

2:12:09benefiting the environment this specific

2:12:11site is interesting.

2:12:13I still don't think that fair value be

2:12:15appropriate but

2:12:18if we did go down that path, we would

2:12:19not be like a one for each of the items

2:12:22and it's but then again, they're going

2:12:24to they're going to hate your system.

2:12:26>> We we can give you all the options, like

2:12:28materials, right? For bricks, this is a

2:12:30score, okay? For concrete, this is a

2:12:33score. Are you using a steel?

2:12:35>> Yeah, construction is a

2:12:37>> So, for any other section, you can give

2:12:39all that, you know, possible things.

2:12:42And then come up with a score.

2:12:44Okay, I'm just giving an example.

2:12:46>> Yeah, yeah.

2:12:47>> So,

2:12:47>> I don't

2:12:48I don't know that

2:12:49if you can do something like that, I

2:12:51don't think you can say, well,

2:12:53if you get 10 or 15 or whatever,

2:12:57that's good.

2:12:57>> I'm writing it down.

2:12:59>> Right.

2:13:00>> And and

2:13:01it has to be subjective either way, like

2:13:04you don't want to be like, "Oh, you did

2:13:06really well on condition four, so I'm

2:13:09going to give you five points for that."

2:13:11And and that might change based on for

2:13:13me personally, as an individual, that

2:13:14would might change depending on the day

2:13:16I had. Like, how how well I actually

2:13:17think they're actually trying to meet it

2:13:19for that side of town. Like, my score

2:13:20could be different.

2:13:22Like, each kind of project makes that

2:13:23So, there's concern there.

2:13:25>> I

2:13:26I get it.

2:13:28All of these thoughts. I mean, because

2:13:30like as a new board member coming in,

2:13:31I'm like, "Okay. So, they're applying

2:13:35for a rezoning. They're trying to change

2:13:37the use of the site."

2:13:40Like, what is the goal of the checklist

2:13:43was kind of my ask and it's like,

2:13:46"I if I'm a developer, I'm going to go,

2:13:47okay, I can do a couple of these little

2:13:50things, but then like it comes to the

2:13:51board and the board's like,

2:13:54oh, this isn't enough." And so like like

2:13:56what is enough? And I think this is

2:13:59where like we can point to things like

2:14:01the town of Apex has

2:14:05surveyed their residents and tree canopy

2:14:07is the number one thing. And so because

2:14:09of what the town has said is important

2:14:13to them. Therefore,

2:14:15to your point,

2:14:17John,

2:14:18um

2:14:19this is a high-impact category and like

2:14:22the board values high impact or whatever

2:14:25it is, um however we want to quantify it

2:14:29or not quantify, however we want to

2:14:31designate it,

2:14:33we value these more than others. And so,

2:14:37we can then look at it and it's like,

2:14:39oh, well, they

2:14:40picked you know, five of our high impact

2:14:42or they picked, you know,

2:14:4410 of our lower-impact ones, but they

2:14:47they picked a lot, you know, and so you

2:14:49can

2:14:50at least you have some means of weighing

2:14:52like what they're doing.

2:14:54>> Well, I think we need to

2:14:56couch this with this board's new power

2:15:00of being able to vote up or down.

2:15:03>> Yeah.

2:15:03>> I mean, the zoning condition is designed

2:15:06to minimize its environmental impact.

2:15:09The proposed conditional zoning district

2:15:12uses to minimize

2:15:14its environmental impact.

2:15:15To protect from significant

2:15:17deterioration of water and natural

2:15:19resources, all of that natural resources

2:15:21and other natural resources. So, that's

2:15:23what they're proposing to

2:15:25add.

2:15:26And so, they are proposing these

2:15:28conditions and half the conditions they

2:15:30picked,

2:15:32do they do that?

2:15:35>> I mean,

2:15:35>> Where does it say that?

2:15:36>> Each rezoning

2:15:37>> Each rezoning request is going to

2:15:40>> be different. The

2:15:41geography of the site and

2:15:44uh

2:15:44resources that are on the site, natural

2:15:47resources on the site, they're always

2:15:48different.

2:15:50>> But anyway, what she was talking about

2:15:52was there was a recent UDO amendment

2:15:54that this board had you guys to provide

2:15:56a recommendation on rezoning.

2:15:59Uh but I just say the condition number

2:16:01five inside the UDO itself, which is

2:16:03minimize its activity

2:16:06to the drainage.

2:16:07>> And is is that on?

2:16:09>> It's not on. It's not on.

2:16:13>> Maybe it should be on the document.

2:16:16Because that then I think also gives

2:16:18developers lens what we're looking at.

2:16:20It reminds those of us, like me, who are

2:16:22new to the board

2:16:24that our charge is to make sure that

2:16:25they minimize impact.

2:16:27>> There's a one of the one of the handouts

2:16:29I gave out we haven't looked at.

2:16:33I probably should draft minutes.

2:16:37On the uh

2:16:43one of the surveys you did whatever

2:16:45whatever it was

2:16:47it was it was trying to address what the

2:16:50residents

2:16:52were more concerned about

2:16:53environmentally and

2:16:55I'm not sure this is in

2:16:59the right correct order, but there

2:17:00there's six items there that

2:17:03that the residents had expressed concern

2:17:06about and a

2:17:07desire to protect

2:17:10So when we're when we're going through

2:17:12all this

2:17:13by one

2:17:15>> [clears throat]

2:17:17>> try to make sure that that

2:17:20is included or is reflected in in our

2:17:22recommendations.

2:17:24But I I

2:17:25I know the clear-cutting thing

2:17:27probably not something we're going to be

2:17:29able to

2:17:31to deal with much.

2:17:33>> Well, we'll see what happens.

2:17:34>> We have we're going to be taking some

2:17:36information from the

2:17:37tree committee capital improvement as

2:17:40well saying

2:17:41update

2:17:43and we've heard from council that they

2:17:45are very strongly in favor of that being

2:17:47increased and production would just sit

2:17:49worse. So we may see changes in safety

2:17:52requirements and how that's really going

2:17:54to impact that. So that there's actually

2:17:55several of these things on here that

2:17:57we're going to potentially be addressed

2:17:59through this process and that's canopy

2:18:01preservation or anything like that.

2:18:03Clear-cutting

2:18:04um

2:18:05the mitigation fund which I know Jerry

2:18:07was speaking to when he was here about

2:18:09allowing an F and C and U or something

2:18:10like that for developments where

2:18:13Okay, they're going to give us a large

2:18:14chunk of money that you can use to save

2:18:15those areas for development.

2:18:18Other other jurisdictions do have that

2:18:20they are more responsible to hire

2:18:22foresters and other department members

2:18:24to help have a greater storm water

2:18:25program through those funds.

2:18:27Um so those are things those are things

2:18:28we're working on to connect some of

2:18:29those um so again maybe addressed

2:18:32with our weather building conditions if

2:18:34they allow us for video gaming.

2:18:37Um

2:18:38video gaming is always fun and so are

2:18:39keeping light.

2:18:40I can't feel the weight of what they got

2:18:42there but um yeah, so this

2:18:45>> I think this actually was a treatment so

2:18:47convenient with

2:18:48>> If you give most of them I would have to

2:18:50only three.

2:18:50>> Well, there was a lot of tree canopy

2:18:52stuff happening.

2:18:53>> Yeah.

2:18:53>> I mean that's I mean that's what it was.

2:18:55>> It is a very big

2:18:56>> I did this a while back.

2:18:58>> Yeah.

2:19:00>> [clears throat]

2:19:01>> And you're you're

2:19:02pretty self-contained and you're going

2:19:03to work very hard and you're dealing

2:19:05stuff outside of me.

2:19:08>> Oh, I'm sure they are.

2:19:15>> So what are our next steps here, I mean

2:19:18>> That's a good question.

2:19:23>> Well, I think

2:19:24I think we agree that

2:19:27somehow finding a way to prioritize

2:19:30these things and the things that were

2:19:32important that came out in the survey

2:19:34and that also meet the condition

2:19:37number five

2:19:39whatever it is that um you so succinctly

2:19:41stated

2:19:42that um

2:19:44if we can find a way to prioritize them

2:19:46against that that would be a good thing.

2:19:48At least for ourselves internally.

2:19:50>> And I think it would be good

2:19:53for the brush beaver

2:19:57let the planning board and the town

2:19:59council know

2:20:00they've gone above and beyond

2:20:03and they've done a really well with

2:20:04this.

2:20:06Like I said, I

2:20:08when I first

2:20:09when I started this, when I started

2:20:11looking at it, my my sole goal was to be

2:20:13able to

2:20:14take what we have in place

2:20:17and and sort of

2:20:19categorize it as to well, this is really

2:20:21important, this is important, but it's

2:20:23okay, and this you know, that's a

2:20:26throwaway, but

2:20:28and and that's sort of a

2:20:30posture I was looking at.

2:20:35So, I

2:20:38Yeah, I I

2:20:40I don't I don't have any

2:20:42strong feelings one way or the other.

2:20:45>> I think we need to think through how we

2:20:47prioritize these.

2:20:48>> Oh, we did. We did.

2:20:50And that was

2:20:52one of the I sort of come up with a

2:20:55with a number guy.

2:20:59>> Yeah.

2:21:00>> Well, how I felt this should be anyway.

2:21:03>> Well, based upon what conditions

2:21:07are these one through six

2:21:10the right ones, are they enough, you

2:21:12know?

2:21:12>> Well, this this is

2:21:15this is just something else that

2:21:17this is three hands here.

2:21:20What y'all want us to do?

2:21:22Give the direction how to do it.

2:21:24Oh, yeah.

2:21:27>> So, this is just sort of very very

2:21:29narrow, but three building, whereas the

2:21:32terms of this board and and

2:21:35number five is the big one.

2:21:37>> Number four, I like it.

2:21:40>> You guys have a hard job of having to

2:21:42get

2:21:43these kind of developments in front of

2:21:45you for the first time and trying to

2:21:47figure out exactly how to

2:21:48how to analyze a site one of the most

2:21:50important.

2:21:52Um, I'm happy to reach out to maybe some

2:21:55type of experts provide additional maybe

2:21:57education or something like that if

2:21:59anyone is interested in getting some

2:22:01type of education for the board itself.

2:22:03It probably would be at a regular

2:22:06meeting but we could maybe have somebody

2:22:07come in and

2:22:08talk about sites and what we're looking

2:22:10for and I think Susan did a really great

2:22:11job I think for us when she was showing

2:22:12us the whole board and things like that

2:22:14and then having more of that would be

2:22:15helpful.

2:22:17I'm sure cuz I know it is a hard it's

2:22:19hard.

2:22:20>> I'd like the transportation and the

2:22:21depth of the

2:22:22the good

2:22:24How's that there there are clearly

2:22:25environmental impacts and

2:22:28effects

2:22:29of how how we design our transportation

2:22:31network around this town.

2:22:35>> Yeah, I'd love to hear like

2:22:37their

2:22:38the environmental ones that they use. Do

2:22:40they use a new build scenario when

2:22:43evaluating these projects or is it just

2:22:45like

2:22:46one more lane that'll solve it?

2:22:52>> Yeah, well the big push if you're going

2:22:54to fix the transportation you really

2:22:56need to try to put jobs

2:22:58and locations next to the

2:23:00next to the subdivisions as much as

2:23:02possible and we tried to do that a long

2:23:04time ago and frankly I felt got pushed

2:23:06back from planning department.

2:23:09They seem to like housing and more

2:23:11housing.

2:23:17>> I mean

2:23:18>> Is that not the former mayor pushing

2:23:20that?

2:23:21>> You probably so. I'll tell you the big

2:23:23one that really bothered me was

2:23:24Sweetwater. You know where Sweetwater

2:23:26is?

2:23:27I did my very best to make that a light

2:23:29industrial park because you look at all

2:23:31around it and there's housings

2:23:33everywhere.

2:23:35Then the long of it is that

2:23:36>> the bus to run out to Sweetwater. I'm

2:23:38like, "What about the people who are

2:23:40like so close to downtown?" You know,

2:23:43like you just hop on a bus instead of

2:23:44having to drive to the park. But

2:23:47we're trying to get people to

2:23:48Sweetwater.

2:23:50>> Well, my complaint is that nobody lives

2:23:51there. They live across 64 cuz people

2:23:53are trying to get over to Sweetwater

2:23:55without getting run over.

2:23:57So, there's that, too.

2:23:59>> That's where Darwin comes into

2:24:00>> Should have put a bridge in.

2:24:02>> You could get a conversation happening

2:24:03up there in the south.

2:24:05With NCDOT and the pies.

2:24:08>> Yeah,

2:24:09I don't know. There's There's There's a

2:24:10whole lot of

2:24:12stuff going on.

2:24:14So, just

2:24:15So, we can run with it and

2:24:17maybe think we can move toward by If you

2:24:20give the word lights, we can take

2:24:22these these six here and try and compare

2:24:24them, figure out

2:24:26what we have that's actually helping us

2:24:27address the needs of our

2:24:30Obviously, there'll be different

2:24:30recommendations and things of that

2:24:32nature. So, I just say as we're

2:24:33presenting to the council itself, um

2:24:36if this

2:24:37layout

2:24:38is helpful,

2:24:40I think we can work with

2:24:41work on this a bit more, we can

2:24:42coordinate, and fix some ideas and maybe

2:24:44see see what we can do with something

2:24:46like this that would be helpful while

2:24:47you're reviewing.

2:24:48And we can start brainstorming ideas on

2:24:50how to effectively communicate

2:24:53how well it's going to work without

2:24:54having to integrate a system to your

2:24:56system.

2:24:57>> I I I think that's a good idea. I think

2:24:59she's got a good

2:25:00good set up there.

2:25:01>> Do you want to use these six or do you

2:25:03want to use what's listed in the video?

2:25:05I'd say do these.

2:25:08Maintaining and acknowledging natural

2:25:10terrain to the extent reasonable and

2:25:12practical.

2:25:13Maintaining and encouraging native plant

2:25:15and wildlife species cuz they

2:25:17Utilizing environmentally responsible

2:25:18building practices, improving the

2:25:20bicycle and pedestrian environment,

2:25:23improving water quality, and then

2:25:25consideration of visual aesthetics as it

2:25:27pertains to the natural environment.

2:25:30Preserving and improving shade trees.

2:25:32I think those are the duties outlined

2:25:34>> Yeah, I would say those are good ones to

2:25:35go with. Yeah.

2:25:38>> And the the the six things I threw out

2:25:40was

2:25:43We need to make sure that that our

2:25:45recommendations uh cover that.

2:25:48>> Yeah.

2:25:48>> Not necessarily that those are in.

2:25:50>> Can you send out um

2:25:53that list this list in

2:25:58My Chart to people just to people can

2:26:00noodle on all of them.

2:26:02>> Yeah.

2:26:02>> That That is a

2:26:05Um

2:26:06I have a I guess a I have a proposal

2:26:10question.

2:26:11Thinking about next steps because uh you

2:26:13know, if I'm summarizing what John is

2:26:15trying to do, he's trying to

2:26:17add weight to certain things and I think

2:26:20what uh Courtney has done

2:26:24very well is flesh out some of the stuff

2:26:27and even add some stuff. Um we mentioned

2:26:31uh Courtney mentioned the survey that we

2:26:34did uh leading up to Earth Day on Earth

2:26:36Day

2:26:37using that as a basis for for what you

2:26:40mentioned that hey, you know, the the

2:26:41people rate that do the things that they

2:26:43want.

2:26:44>> Isn't that right?

2:26:44>> So, my That's right. That is right.

2:26:47Right. So, my proposal

2:26:48>> That's not That's not That's not

2:26:51Yeah, I

2:26:52That's from the pre-camp thing.

2:26:53>> Yeah. Right. Um

2:26:55I was just thinking out of the example.

2:26:57But my What What I'm asking is

2:27:00why don't we move to create a a a more

2:27:03robust this survey I can go out to

2:27:07more of the my constituents instead of

2:27:09just the ones that visit our booth

2:27:11on that day or Earth Day, which I don't

2:27:14know what

2:27:15maybe 50

2:27:16or

2:27:18Um and and I think after the after

2:27:21that meeting after Earth Day, I think we

2:27:24mentioned that we could have done maybe

2:27:25a better job of like

2:27:27verbage general request

2:27:28>> Right.

2:27:29>> I think why don't we move to flesh out

2:27:31some of the things we got what the

2:27:33people want.

2:27:35What is important to the the town of

2:27:36Pakistan? We can use that as the weight

2:27:39for the things that

2:27:41Courtney um is suggesting and and you

2:27:45know and John's vision what he he's

2:27:47planning on doing or what he wants to

2:27:49do.

2:27:50Because that sounds like something that

2:27:52we maybe want to work on.

2:27:54>> Yeah, I like that idea. I do too. I do

2:27:56think a survey may take a little while

2:27:58to vet the questions and get it out. So,

2:27:59I think we can still go ahead and start

2:28:02our work um

2:28:04looking at

2:28:06uh

2:28:08the UDO amendments and then this as a

2:28:12start

2:28:14to look through that lens while the

2:28:16survey is being worked on and maybe

2:28:18since you volunteered

2:28:22the surveys, you could take a look at

2:28:24the questions and what other things

2:28:26might want to be updated.

2:28:34>> Maybe maybe maybe

2:28:37There's an update

2:28:39in years.

2:28:40>> I'll keep finding it.

2:28:41>> Yes, yes, yes.

2:28:42>> You are Have there been any

2:28:43environmental questions?

2:28:46>> theory depreciation

2:28:47>> Actually, yeah. And that that is yes.

2:28:50So,

2:28:51I brought that up that there appears to

2:28:54not be any

2:28:56planning for open uh

2:28:59the open space hearings

2:29:01>> in the version we saw

2:29:03>> Yeah.

2:29:04>> last. So, I'll let you do the work that

2:29:06you want to work with.

2:29:07I mean on that I have to announce that.

2:29:10So, that that next meeting will be

2:29:122:30 to 3:30 meeting is a task force

2:29:15meeting

2:29:16next week. And then there is the public

2:29:19open house that's been actually

2:29:21scheduled.

2:29:22>> Yeah, but the the next forum

2:29:23>> the next presenting the material that

2:29:25anybody can remember to encourage you

2:29:27all to do that. And it's on

2:29:30November

2:29:328th

2:29:34>> Mhm. reason the forms are really good

2:29:36for gathering information on how

2:29:38residents want to see Apex in the future

2:29:41laid out. This is essentially what we're

2:29:43creating in the place in that which is

2:29:44the language

2:29:46I'm basing that and how Apex how the

2:29:49residents want to see Apex but whether

2:29:50it's going to be who want more

2:29:52redevelopment and intensity of higher

2:29:55density in certain areas where it makes

2:29:56sense to give you similar city homes,

2:29:58things grow out, things like that.

2:30:00Building on the green field areas. It's

2:30:02a place to get feedback on that input.

2:30:03So,

2:30:04>> It's November 12th.

2:30:06From 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. this is a drop-in

2:30:08and it's at the Senior Center on

2:30:10Meadowbrook Avenue. Everyone

2:30:13>> What was the program name?

2:30:15>> It's just called the Peaks Plan 2035.

2:30:18So, it's the town's long-range plan for

2:30:19the future.

2:30:20November 12th.

2:30:21>> 12th. From 4:00 to 7:00.

2:30:22>> 4:00 to 7:00. There's There's for the

2:30:24four channels.

2:30:25>> Okay.

2:30:26>> If they If they There should be a

2:30:28website that links you to a lot of

2:30:32And for whatever reason if anyone on the

2:30:33board would like to provide input or

2:30:36during the meeting, let them know we'll

2:30:37get to them.

2:30:42>> I like the idea of a survey. I like the

2:30:43idea of using it as a draft one. My only

2:30:45concern,

2:30:46and playing devil's advocate, is

2:30:48I feel like the questions have to be

2:30:50carefully worded in a way I mean because

2:30:53a lot of the public is not necessarily

2:30:55educated about the environment or about

2:30:58the development process.

2:30:59>> I was actually just thinking about that.

2:31:01I mean I I didn't get to say that in my

2:31:03original pitch but

2:31:05we have to be a little bit more

2:31:06thorough.

2:31:07Right now our questions are very general

2:31:08like, "Hey, do you like the

2:31:09environment?"

2:31:10>> Yes, they do.

2:31:11>> Exactly. Um,

2:31:12it's like asking somebody, "Do you want

2:31:14a a new pair of sneakers?" Somebody's

2:31:15going to say yes but you need them for

2:31:16what? What do you need them for? Do you

2:31:18need them for weight lifting?

2:31:19What do you need them for?

2:31:22So, your point is we're asking, right,

2:31:24"How much do you want to pay for this.

2:31:27Um, we would need to

2:31:30take this.

2:31:32I I mean, I guess we can use this as a

2:31:34backbone for the survey and possibly add

2:31:36more to it, but like, hey,

2:31:39do you care about

2:31:41uh repurposing materials? Do you care

2:31:43about reusing some of this stuff or do

2:31:44you

2:31:45do you not care if it just goes to the

2:31:47landfill? Do you care about,

2:31:49you know,

2:31:50uh green roofs?

2:31:52Uh these are things that, to your point,

2:31:54people are not thinking about.

2:31:55But everybody's going to say, yes, I I

2:31:57like the environment. I like clean

2:31:59water. Um

2:32:01but do you like it enough to

2:32:03pick this over this, right?

2:32:06Um I I guess that's what I'm

2:32:08what I'm trying to say. I think we need

2:32:10a a more fleshed-out survey. Uh and if

2:32:13we have to do it in parts, like we can

2:32:15separate it into water or

2:32:17building or construction or

2:32:20however we want to do it, so it's not

2:32:22this full-length survey that people look

2:32:26at and they're like, no, I don't mind.

2:32:27Right? Uh it could be like in phases. Um

2:32:31I guess that's what I'm envisioning um

2:32:34that can help us um add some weight to

2:32:37some of those things that matter.

2:32:39That we think should matter, too.

2:32:41>> It's about the outcome and the result

2:32:44that we receive. If it's not and we

2:32:46disagree,

2:32:47what do we do?

2:32:48>> That's also a values thing, like the

2:32:51community values, which is very

2:32:53important.

2:32:54But we still as board have to decide,

2:32:56does this particular project minimize

2:32:59>> We have We have an obligation.

2:33:01>> We have a charge.

2:33:02>> Yes, but it could help support

2:33:04>> Yes.

2:33:04>> Yes.

2:33:05>> It supports basically why we are

2:33:08Maybe it will allow us to emphasize

2:33:10certain areas other more than others.

2:33:13>> That's what I was going to say cuz I,

2:33:16before being on the EAB, was asked the

2:33:19um one when the tele came and presented

2:33:22it to you all. And I know as far as the

2:33:24boxes,

2:33:27you checked the boxes, but at the same

2:33:29time, I know you especially had a a lot

2:33:31of questions,

2:33:33which I thank you for.

2:33:35But but you know, that's a perfect

2:33:37example why something like this needs to

2:33:40exist.

2:33:41Um

2:33:42and that's our job.

2:33:45>> So, are we going to have another I don't

2:33:47know. Next meeting

2:33:50can be like this again or like what

2:33:51exactly is the next

2:33:53>> Well, and the next meeting is December

2:33:5510th.

2:33:56>> Oh, wow.

2:33:57>> There's no November meeting. They said

2:33:58they combined them for the holidays.

2:34:01>> Can we

2:34:03work session?

2:34:04>> Yeah, can we do a work session?

2:34:05>> Yeah.

2:34:07I like that.

2:34:08>> Just because it's not Thanksgiving week.

2:34:11>> It can't be November 10th.

2:34:12>> I

2:34:19>> Can we also communicate via a different

2:34:21format like on a Google Doc or

2:34:24Excel? We cannot.

2:34:27>> It has to be

2:34:28the official minutes.

2:34:30>> All right, because that that would be

2:34:31more efficient.

2:34:36>> But having the dialogue

2:34:37is important.

2:34:48Well,

2:34:51>> So, then are we going to call a special

2:34:53meeting or how is that possible?

2:34:57>> You mean to do that?

2:35:01Well, yeah, we'll have to notice it.

2:35:02You'll have to essentially pick a day to

2:35:07>> The normal meeting would have been

2:35:08November 19th.

2:35:11But but my birthday

2:35:13>> It's my birthday.

2:35:15>> Happy birthday.

2:35:16>> I think I'm okay.

2:35:17>> I'll look at on

2:35:19defense of my calendar.

2:35:22I probably got it set.

2:35:26>> [laughter]

2:35:29[clears throat]

2:35:31>> And with this these special

2:35:34What do they call them? The special

2:35:35meetings.

2:35:37Would it just run the same way or is

2:35:39just

2:35:40more like a

2:35:43work session?

2:35:47>> We know we have to state the purpose and

2:35:49the purpose of the meeting.

2:35:50>> You need to have the purpose meeting so

2:35:52we will have to stick to whatever the

2:35:53purpose is.

2:36:02>> She's going to share it.

2:36:05I don't think I can.

2:36:06>> They were also some recommendations came

2:36:09from Capital News not here today.

2:36:12And some of it is pre-technical. So we

2:36:15can also talk about that stuff a little

2:36:16bit if you want to.

2:36:19>> I have a slight concern is it totally

2:36:21ruling out any kind of like lean beliefs

2:36:23campaign especially with their yard

2:36:26waste issues?

2:36:27>> I think we should.

2:36:29>> Yeah.

2:36:30Okay. Yeah. I know storm water usually

2:36:33like

2:36:34and the belief like promotes that

2:36:37specifically

2:36:37>> Yeah, we should do a different official

2:36:40program.

2:36:41>> That would be great. Education.

2:36:46>> Unless I have to hear meat lovers.

2:36:53>> Yes. All right.

2:36:54Do we I have a motion to set a special

2:36:58meeting for November

2:37:0019th at 6:00 p.m.?

2:37:02>> Yes.

2:37:03>> I'll make a motion.

2:37:04>> Second.

2:37:06>> I'll second. All right. All in favor?

2:37:09I.

2:37:11Against?

2:37:11>> I.

2:37:13>> Okay.

2:37:30>> You look like you're motioning to just

2:37:31state that we're going to be meeting to

2:37:33further discuss.

2:37:34Just say that we're going to condition.

2:37:36>> Yes. Yeah, um

2:37:37um I am going to amend uh the motion to

2:37:42state that we'll be meeting to hold a

2:37:44special session to continue working on

2:37:48some of the conditions over reason.

2:38:00All right.

2:38:02You want to go through the meeting

2:38:03tonight, you say?

2:38:04No problem.

2:38:06Anyone Everyone in favor? Anyone in

2:38:08favor?

2:38:13I'll list.

2:38:17Okay, wait. Hold on.

2:38:19Moving on. Announcements and petitions

2:38:22by board members. Does anyone have

2:38:24anything else?

2:38:25>> Chair, for a second.

2:38:26>> I don't have a board member, but I'll I

2:38:28mean I'm not

2:38:29but I'll bring this up.

2:38:31Recently in a

2:38:33president by the board

2:38:35like the ACOM meeting, all the all the

2:38:38ACOM members were there.

2:38:40Adam reminded us that if you

2:38:43are present in a meeting and you get up

2:38:46to go to the restroom, and you're on

2:38:48your phone, whatever, if you leave the

2:38:49room and a vote is taken, your vote is

2:38:53automatically yes.

2:38:55No matter what it is.

2:38:55>> It's an automatic yes?

2:38:57>> Like a yes.

2:38:58>> Oh, okay.

2:39:00>> Yeah.

2:39:01If you

2:39:02are leaving early and we motion to let

2:39:06you leave early, like we know it. It's

2:39:09motion.

2:39:11You leave.

2:39:12Then you have no vote.

2:39:14Either way. But if for some reason you

2:39:16just leave and you're out of the room

2:39:17permanently and

2:39:18the vote happens, you vote again.

2:39:21>> Can we make a motion to ask the voter to

2:39:23go to the bathroom or something like

2:39:25that anyway? Aren't we supposed to?

2:39:28>> You don't need to ask permission.

2:39:29>> Okay.

2:39:29>> Like it's like yes, if you were going if

2:39:31you know you have to leave early, you

2:39:33should motion.

2:39:34>> Next time

2:39:38>> [laughter]

2:39:44>> We're doing a good half hour of meeting

2:39:45and I got to take a five minute break

2:39:47time.

2:39:48>> [laughter]

2:39:49>> I'm really sorry.

2:39:52>> Somebody brought that up. What happened?

2:39:55I'm just like I'm wondering if

2:39:56the vote is yes.

2:39:58>> So if you walked out, does that count as

2:39:59avoiding voting?

2:40:00>> Yeah.

2:40:02>> All right.

2:40:03>> I don't know what they're talking about.

2:40:05>> Huh? Laura, you have a quick thing that

2:40:06I wanted to say for many months. Um is

2:40:09it possible to add uh funding and

2:40:11expenses to the staff on our sheets?

2:40:13Just so we know because I think you

2:40:14mentioned that this is

2:40:17Oh, good.

2:40:18But I believe

2:40:20Well, there's there's a there's a

2:40:21definite

2:40:23to get

2:40:24a technical manual

2:40:27for the town staff.

2:40:29>> I think that's coming

2:40:31soon.

2:40:34That's what it seemed like when we had

2:40:36this meeting that the clerk was working

2:40:38on

2:40:39making that.

2:40:41>> How about the data center subcommittee?

2:40:44>> I think there's a plan.

2:40:45>> I answered there's an ANSI manual.

2:40:48Would be helpful for the data center.

2:40:51>> Oh, are you talking about the videoing,

2:40:52the fact that there was no video? Was

2:40:54that a technical issue?

2:40:55>> No. No. No, this was this is an ANSI

2:40:57manual that uh

2:40:59town doesn't have access to funds. They

2:41:02cost money.

2:41:04And uh

2:41:06>> Oh, are you bringing this up because you

2:41:08would love or not love, but you would

2:41:11>> I would love actually I would love

2:41:13>> What do you think?

2:41:14>> If we could

2:41:16He's part of our budget.

2:41:17>> I think for that.

2:41:24>> Okay.

2:41:25But so that that is the reason why I'm

2:41:27here

2:41:28asking that. I think because I think

2:41:30this this board does get funding, I

2:41:32think suggestions by members like, "Hey,

2:41:35how can we use this money or uh

2:41:38>> How much do we have?

2:41:38>> use of much love. What can we use it

2:41:40for? And then people can have

2:41:43viable suggestions.

2:41:44>> Yeah.

2:41:47>> Yeah, uh I'm going to give you some but

2:41:49I think we had some of those already

2:41:51leading up to like right at the very end

2:41:54of our

2:41:59>> That reminds me of Terry's comment about

2:42:00the tree mitigation and funding. We

2:42:02should also think about that before the

2:42:04next meeting, too.

2:42:06Just what our thoughts on it,

2:42:09whether or not there's a zoning

2:42:12code amendment or not that allows for

2:42:14that.

2:42:17I mean, I personally didn't love the

2:42:19opportunity. I didn't love that like we

2:42:21voted for something and then they

2:42:23allowed like a tree mitigation in lieu.

2:42:25And went elsewhere.

2:42:27>> Right.

2:42:28>> And it's like and we don't know yet

2:42:30because like you and I were talking

2:42:31about it during the tree canopy

2:42:32subcommittee like

2:42:34like trees for the future. Are they

2:42:35planting in Apex? Are they planting it

2:42:37locally? Like or

2:42:39you know, and if it's going to the

2:42:40operations fund, yes, it's helping the

2:42:42town of Apex, but is that actually

2:42:43helping tree canopy? So

2:42:46>> Usually with the

2:42:47I sit on another park and recreation

2:42:49department. It's like the money is tied

2:42:50to that and it's specifically

2:42:52tree maintenance and preservation but

2:42:54that doesn't happen.

2:42:55But they also got to at some point

2:42:57because I know

2:42:58we have a former arborist on our staff

2:43:01who told me that when he worked there he

2:43:03only worked on straight and narrow

2:43:04trees. He had a fund

2:43:06and right now the fund has about 12

2:43:08million dollars. They can't plant those

2:43:09trees. There's not enough area to plant

2:43:11more trees than fit in the state right

2:43:13away and things like that. More

2:43:14dangerous.

2:43:15And so it's yeah.

2:43:18>> I had a position where you had to

2:43:24>> Any others?

2:43:26>> [clears throat]

2:43:26>> Any other comments, questions?

2:43:27>> You know I was just going to say this

2:43:28was a great

2:43:30great work session. So thank you.

2:43:33>> Thank you Gordon.

2:43:34>> Thank you. Thank you for calling me an

2:43:37idea and I

2:43:39I appreciate all the engagement. So

2:43:40appreciate it.

2:43:42>> Do I have a motion to adjourn?

2:43:47>> [laughter]

2:45:44>> Mhm.