2026-11-05 - Parks & Recreation Commission Meeting

00:03All right, whenever you're ready.

00:06>> Call to order

00:08Call to order today's November 5th

00:10meeting of the Parks and Recreation

00:12Commission.

00:13Um may we have attendance, please?

00:15>> Commissioner Chetronie?

00:17>> Yes.

00:18>> Commissioner Doughty?

00:19>> Here.

00:20>> Commissioner Serrato?

00:24Commissioner Stratton?

00:27>> Here.

00:27>> Commissioner Turner?

00:28>> Here.

00:33>> Okay. Um

00:34if everyone's had a chance to review the

00:36minutes, any comments, questions,

00:38concerns, or motions?

00:41>> I motion to accept them.

00:45>> [clears throat]

00:46>> I'll second.

00:49>> Commissioner Chetronie?

00:51>> Yes.

00:51>> Commissioner Doughty?

00:53>> Yes.

00:54>> Commissioner Serrato?

00:58Commissioner Stratton?

01:01>> Yes.

01:02>> Commissioner Turner?

01:03>> Yes.

01:05>> Moving into our public participation

01:07portion, there will be a 2-hour time

01:09limit for this meeting unless a majority

01:11of the commission members present vote

01:12to extend the allotted time.

01:14So, if there's anybody in the public in

01:17person or online that would wish to

01:18speak on something on the agenda, now is

01:20your time to do so.

01:27Anyone online?

01:29Okay.

01:31Uh Rob, Commissioner's report.

01:34>> Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh so, our

01:37first item on this is the Bell Pond

01:40Master Plan update.

01:42Um and

01:45so, we have a presentation for you. It's

01:47included in the packages as well. Um

01:51but, we'll put it up here as well.

01:53And want to just talk through So, we

01:56took the comments that were part of the

01:59original of our meeting that the last

02:02meeting and we

02:04made

02:06some adjustments based on our review of

02:08the site just in general. Um and what

02:12you see here are the five things that

02:14we've looked to

02:15uh improve. So, updates to the existing

02:18playground, accessible beach access,

02:21court refurbishment, uh which would

02:23include uh sports lighting,

02:26parking improvements, and then

02:28uh pond bank restoration area as well.

02:32Uh there will be also building

02:33renovation, uh but

02:36that's more just involved in as an

02:38overall component of it as well.

02:40Um so,

02:42uh your first item there is just sort of

02:45the mapping of the site.

02:47Uh that is the entire park. So, the red

02:49dotted line is the entire park facility.

02:53Um

02:54and

02:56what but what we're working on now is

02:58the black dotted line that's in there,

03:00which is just where the beach, the

03:02playground, the building, and that

03:04infrastructure is located.

03:07Uh so, this is the picture of the

03:09existing

03:11uh location that's there. So, when you

03:13look at this from top to bottom,

03:16uh

03:16top is the parking lot. To the left of

03:18the parking lot is the basketball court.

03:20To the right of the parking lot is the

03:22grass area and the beach.

03:24Uh as you can come down further is the

03:27playground,

03:28uh and the building, and then the

03:30connector path

03:32that brings you down towards

03:35uh the pond edge as you go towards the

03:38back of the property. Uh so, this is the

03:40area that we've talked about. This is

03:41the area that you know, we've just made

03:43discussions about um

03:47possible tree removal, possible limbing

03:49up of tree areas to try to clean some of

03:52those areas up, um

03:54uh and that kind of work.

03:58So, here's the Here's the overall plan

04:01uh that we're proposing.

04:03So again, working from the top down to

04:06the bottom,

04:07top left-hand side is the basketball

04:11court. So we've extended out the

04:13basketball court to become a full-size

04:15NBA

04:16size basketball court. That's our

04:18standard

04:20for

04:21Worcester Parks and Rec.

04:22And we have included new lighting on the

04:25site for that as well.

04:28If you go down a little bit further,

04:29there's a new access point that brings

04:32you up to the top of the hill.

04:34So currently, the access point is off of

04:37Belmont Street. So you have to raise up

04:40off of a 8

04:4210-in reveal of a curb

04:46while traffic's coming in both

04:48directions

04:50with two lanes in certain at certain at

04:52certain areas.

04:53And so the thought process for us is by

04:56extending the basketball court, we

04:59change this and put the this sort of

05:01access way

05:02that further up connects to the current

05:04pathway that's there, but make it part

05:06of the park and park and inside the

05:08park.

05:09Just a much safer way to for access

05:12points. It also helps us with some

05:14erosion-related issues that we currently

05:16have there. And it just it just makes

05:19the the system work much, much better.

05:21And for future renovations to either the

05:23top of the hill or other areas,

05:26that would give us some assistance.

05:29Parking lot relatively stays the same,

05:32but we just enhance the parking lot.

05:35Um

05:35we put in wood guardrail. We secure the

05:38parking lot so that you can't take

05:41vehicular traffic

05:43onto the beach or you know, up the

05:46roadway or the the sidewalks. We would

05:49be able to do some of that internally

05:51for park-related needs, but not allow

05:54general public to have that access.

05:57And then, if you go continue keep going

06:00to the right, there'll be some seasonal

06:03a walkway there and then some seasonal

06:05seating that we would put out for

06:09um the beach season over in that area.

06:12Um a new wall that will go in for the

06:15beach,

06:16upgrade the beach and then have this

06:18fully accessible route that's going to

06:20come from the building as well as from

06:22the parking lot as well as from the

06:25sidewalk. All of it reconnects onto the

06:27beach and we're able to

06:30lessen the length of matting that we

06:33need to put in while getting people uh

06:36relatively I mean in our eyes as close

06:39as we really can without doing, you

06:41know, major work within uh a good

06:43portion of the of the wetland area.

06:48Overall,

06:49um

06:50that gives us some of that uh

06:52flexibility there

06:54um and gives us uh just a better overall

06:57beach beach operational component. Uh

07:00the building will be completely boxed

07:02in.

07:03Uh right now they're sort of an uh a

07:05cutout in the middle. Uh it's actually

07:08what it ends up becoming is a location

07:10for trash, uh a location where people

07:14can hide, a location where uh just

07:17inappropriate things can happen. Uh so

07:19we'll be take getting rid of that,

07:21renovating the the the two bathrooms

07:23that are there

07:24for men and women, uh renovating the the

07:27guard area and the storage facility area

07:30on that end of it. We will be looking to

07:32expand the playground that's right above

07:34that uh to in include more and

07:37additional

07:38uh play equipment, play value on that

07:41end of it. Uh streamlining the the set

07:44of stairs or the access point going to

07:46the top of the hill,

07:47um and then putting in a wall that will

07:49sort of hold back that

07:51that

07:52um the wall the the hillside so that we

07:56can build these other improvements.

07:59Um and also helps us to to be able to

08:00release some of the issues regarding

08:03hiding spots uh that become problematic

08:06on our end of it.

08:08Uh and then we'll do some wetland

08:10renovation along that uh

08:12the top and bottom of the beach.

08:14Uh those areas right there just do some

08:16minimal uh renovation in that area

08:20uh to make up for any other improvements

08:22that we're doing on the site that we may

08:24need to do as part of our uh

08:26conservation commission review.

08:28So, we've identified that already.

08:33Um

08:34so, at least on our end of it, I happy

08:36to take any questions from anybody. If

08:38there's uh concerns or anything along

08:41those lines.

08:42Uh

08:43if not, then my recommendation would be

08:46to approve the master plan to move

08:49forward to the city council.

08:53Uh one other piece to it, we will also

08:55have you know, we'll put in some

08:57seasonal benches and picnic tables and

08:59that on in here as well. We may also

09:01include We have some on there, but we

09:03may augment those with some seasonal

09:05ones as well that will give us during

09:07the

09:08the swimming season give us some extra

09:10space for picnic areas and and that like

09:12we've done in our other facilities.

09:18>> I think we have a hand online, Jeff.

09:24>> Yeah, so uh quick uh question on this

09:27one. Um with regards to the uh like

09:29overall, this looks great um at least

09:32from my perspective, you know, I really

09:33like the the revisions that were made to

09:35the plan. Um the accessibility, the the

09:38increase in the court sizes was

09:39playground. Um I totally understand the

09:42reason for the move of the access off of

09:45Belmont Street. I think that that's also

09:46really good um safety component as well.

09:50It's a lot safer for the park staff.

09:51It's safer for the pedestrians. The

09:53question I guess I'd have uh Rob looking

09:56at this plan,

09:57is there any consideration of possibly

09:59trying to line up the entrance to the

10:02and again, having to think about the

10:04parking lot, would it be possible even

10:06to line up the entrance to the parking

10:07lot with the street that's kind of

10:09across Belmont.

10:11And my thought just being, you know,

10:13that may be ideal rather than having

10:15sort of two intersections

10:18uh you know, spaced out just slightly to

10:20just if they could align. And I don't

10:21know if that's possible with the the

10:23plan or if that was something that was

10:24considered and maybe not recommended by

10:26traffic and and and transportation.

10:31So,

10:34>> I see what you said. I I think a lot of

10:35times, Eric, when you do that, you kill

10:37[clears throat] the flow of the It's

10:39It's easier for a car to come in

10:40straight

10:41and loop around the way it's going.

10:44>> So, we're pretty lined up right now

10:47overall.

10:49Um

10:53I mean, we could look at

10:56sliding it maybe to the right.

11:00>> It does look like that street allows for

11:02parking on both sides, so it's therefore

11:04wider.

11:05>> Right.

11:05>> So, it is obviously going to narrow.

11:08>> So, if we're going to do that, Brandon,

11:10if you can go up to the Sorry.

11:16>> Yeah, it does look like there is one

11:18edge

11:20that aligns relatively well with the

11:22street. Um I will note that the street

11:25does have appear to have double-sided

11:28parking parallel parking on either side,

11:30so it is going to be wider.

11:32Uh it's not necessarily centered,

11:34obviously, but it's pretty darn close

11:37when it comes to general traffic flow of

11:40in and out. It is

11:42pretty but we can definitely

11:44refine it, you know, as needed on our

11:47side of it. I wouldn't look to make any

11:50major changes just as it relates to curb

11:52cuts. Uh that's a fairly

11:55hefty permit at times.

11:58>> So, I think what we

11:58>> Not a problem. No, I appreciate that.

12:00>> Yeah, I think what we'll we can look at

12:02is see how much, if any, we can you

12:05know, we can

12:07you know, maybe make that a little bit

12:08wider or or

12:10we'll we'll check that out. Um

12:13but I I think as of right now, I think

12:15it looks relatively

12:18you know, consistent with what we're

12:20with what we have or you know, that that

12:23setup looks relatively consistent with

12:25the lineup of the street above it.

12:30>> To follow up on Eric, now that I look at

12:32Are you going to try Are you going to

12:33request traffic try to move the

12:34crosswalk in line with the sidewalk that

12:36you're pouring?

12:38Is

12:39>> So, the sidewalk Any changes to the

12:41sidewalk area, we would let DTM

12:43>> Okay.

12:44>> take a look at our design and then let

12:47them make that determination.

12:49We will put the If there's any

12:51improvements to that sidewalk that we

12:53need to do because of utilities coming

12:55in or whatever else, we would work with

12:58DTM to make a determination on where

13:01they want to keep the the route. Now,

13:04part of the problem with that site

13:06there, right? Is you got to remember

13:07that that there's a hill that goes down

13:09to the left-hand side going down Belmont

13:11Street, right?

13:12>> Yeah.

13:12>> So, if you put it too far up

13:15>> slope

13:15>> now you now you now you get blind spots

13:19as a possibility [clears throat] as

13:20people are coming up the hill and not

13:22being able to see it. So, I think the

13:24sidewalk is where it needs to be,

13:27unfortunately, just because of

13:29sightlines for both the drivers coming

13:31up and then those that are coming from

13:34sort of Green Hill Park from the

13:35Shrewsbury

13:36sort of the lakeside towards downtown.

13:40Um but, we can have DTM take a look at

13:43it and see if they have any if they want

13:44to make any recommendations.

13:46>> I'm sure they will.

13:48>> Anything else, Eric?

13:49>> No.

13:52No.

13:54>> Nothing on my end.

13:55>> The other part to moving that I would be

13:58worried about is losing spaces because

14:00this um I'm not sure how many spaces are

14:03currently at this location, but during

14:06the summertime, this is a heavy heavy

14:08densely populated um and I'm not even

14:11sure that this would be be for parking

14:14for to

14:17satisfy

14:18the type of use that this site gets.

14:21Um

14:22the other thing I was looking at was um

14:25the amount of spaces. Is this more

14:28spaces, less spaces, the same amount

14:30that's there?

14:32>> I believe I believe it's more or less

14:34the same amount.

14:35>> Yes.

14:36Yeah, it's more or less about

14:38approximately the same on our end of it.

14:40Um we didn't

14:42we when we laid it out, we laid it out

14:45for uh pretty much what's there um for a

14:49couple of reasons. One,

14:51trying to lessen the the impact of

14:55pervious pavement impervious pavement,

14:58right?

14:59Because that's something conservation

15:00commission is going to ask us about. And

15:02so we didn't want to try to overextend

15:05because we were extending on the

15:06basketball court

15:07>> Mhm.

15:08>> um a little bit. And then the walkways

15:10were extending out a little bit more of

15:12a walkway area. So

15:13>> Mhm.

15:15>> We pretty much kept it the same. There's

15:16not a lot of space really to go anywhere

15:19anywhere else there

15:20um to build a workable park workable

15:24parking lot. Um you have a major hill on

15:27towards the bottom of the picture.

15:29You have the beach on the right and then

15:31you have the basketball court and all of

15:34that on your left. So

15:35it's a tight spot

15:37um

15:39but

15:40I mean, I know when we get busy there, a

15:42lot of people use the side streets for

15:44parking. Um and I think

15:47>> one lane.

15:47>> And I think what we really need to do is

15:49look at just making sure that DTM

15:53takes a look at the at the crosswalks

15:55and make sure that those are in the

15:57appropriate location. I think that helps

16:00with that particular issue.

16:02>> Um just one other thing through the

16:04chair to the commis- uh to the

16:06commissioner

16:08um

16:09is the two handicap spaces is that

16:12enough for this amount of parking

16:15spaces?

16:16>> Yes. So there's um

16:18two for the first 25 and then one every

16:22every 25 after that.

16:23>> Okay.

16:24All right. Um my other question is where

16:28those trees are, is that where the dip

16:30of the hill starts? Cuz I know it the

16:32the basketball court is kind of like

16:35really where the end of the dip starts.

16:37Is that right here where that pathway is

16:40going to be?

16:41Yes.

16:42>> You got that right there?

16:43>> Yeah. These these two sides Is there any

16:47possibility to put parking there?

16:50It's Or is it too tight?

16:51>> Did you get the photography? Those are

16:52the lines that get closer together. They

16:54get closer together.

16:55>> We wouldn't be able to put

16:57>> anything here.

16:57>> parking

16:58at that location.

17:00>> Thank you.

17:06Uh yes.

17:07Uh one more question through the chair

17:09to the commissioner. Uh the basketball I

17:11probably asked this last time. It'll be

17:13fenced?

17:14Yes. Okay.

17:15>> Yep. Fully fenced. 10-ft high.

17:17>> Okay.

17:18>> Um pretty much

17:20just to make sure that the ball stays

17:21within

17:22we you know, within the um confines of

17:24the

17:26uh of the court.

17:27>> Okay.

17:27>> So, it'd be no different than what you

17:29see. It'd just be larger

17:31>> Okay.

17:31>> and have lights.

17:32>> Okay.

17:33>> Now, we will be putting lighting in the

17:34parking lot. There'll be lighting on the

17:36building. Um

17:39Well, we're going to start with lighting

17:41going down the pathway.

17:42>> Mhm.

17:43>> Um we'll end where you see that

17:46currently ending right now. Uh but

17:48lighting will go to where the the black

17:51dotted line is going down along the

17:52beach. We'll limit that on that side of

17:55it. But, we'll have enough

17:56infrastructure

17:57>> Mhm.

17:58>> in our design to be able to then in a

18:00future phase move forward with

18:02additional lighting going further down.

18:05You can back up, Reagan, please to

18:08>> Over there.

18:09>> One more.

18:11Right. So, there's a walkway that goes

18:13there. We would We would build in enough

18:15to be able to get to this back portion

18:18Um, the of the facility.

18:20Now,

18:22I do not plan at this time to

18:25um,

18:26to build out electrical use to the top

18:29of the feet the top area, to that open

18:32area up top with the basket with the um,

18:34soccer field is up top.

18:36>> Mhm.

18:37>> If and when we decide to do something

18:39with that portion of this property, um,

18:41we would bring in a new service from

18:44someplace else. Uh, so we wouldn't be

18:46looking to do that uh, to bring that in

18:49and have enough service to be able to go

18:51up that hill cuz I don't envision us

18:53coming up that hill with electricity. I

18:56think we would come in off of Mayfield,

18:58which is the the one on the left-hand

19:00side there.

19:01>> Mhm.

19:01>> Um, it'd be a little bit shorter of a

19:03run. Uh, we could work with public

19:05schools to maybe even bring it up

19:07through a portion of their property.

19:09It's just a much easier and and

19:12much more capable fit with that side of

19:15it than what we have than trying to

19:17bring it all the way up that steep hill,

19:19ruin all those trees, ruin a lot of that

19:21kind of stuff there.

19:24>> Thank you.

19:26>> Are you all set?

19:27>> I am.

19:28>> Um,

19:29Brian, did you have anything?

19:31>> Reagan, can you go back to the

19:35>> Oh, I see now.

19:37>> No, no, I'm good. Thank you. I love the

19:39design. I love what we're what we're

19:41doing.

19:42No questions.

19:45>> I I think the design looks

19:47uh, uh, very very nicely done. I like

19:49the flow. Nice job uh, nice geometry to

19:51the sidewalks and things like that from

19:52the aerial view, but um,

19:54if we have no other comments

19:57from the commission,

19:59I don't think anyone else has anything.

20:02No one else online?

20:03>> Uh,

20:04one other note, Mr. Chairman, we will we

20:06are looking at shade as well,

20:08particularly on the playground. Uh,

20:10we'll look at that as a as a

20:12functionality. Um, on the shade piece

20:15that came up at our last meeting as

20:16well.

20:17>> I do have we do have someone that popped

20:19up.

20:24>> I just wanted to ask a question in

20:26regards to like the walkway. Is it

20:28expanding around like the

20:32court?

20:32Is it just going to stay

20:34same walking area?

20:37>> So, there's going to be no walkway

20:40around the court. Uh your entrance will

20:42be pretty much where it is there right

20:45now. Um

20:47in the plan,

20:49uh the gray area that's surrounded is

20:51really your run out room

20:53uh as required for a for a court. Um so,

20:57there'd be no walking around the court.

20:59Uh no walkway around the court.

21:05>> Thank you.

21:06>> You're welcome.

21:08Is that it, Jeff?

21:11So, Mr. Chairman, um if there's not

21:14nothing else, my recommendation would be

21:16is approval of the

21:18master plan with two items. We'll look

21:21at the

21:23um

21:25We'll look at the the sidewalks with DTM

21:27and the and the connection between the

21:30parking lot entrance and the walkway

21:33across the and the the road the street

21:35across the street cross Belmont Street.

21:37Um and then uh I think other than that,

21:40that would be I think that's the only

21:42other change that maybe we would look

21:44at, but other than that, I think we're

21:45pretty set on sort of layout.

21:48>> Looks good. If So, I can get a motion

21:50from a commissioner?

21:51>> I'll motion to accept the uh master plan

21:55for Bell Hill um

21:57with

21:59any changes needed based upon DTM

22:03recommendations.

22:08>> Can I get somebody to second?

22:11>> Second.

22:14>> Eric.

22:14>> Eric.

22:16>> Commissioner Cicerone.

22:17>> Yes.

22:19>> Commissioner Doherty.

22:21>> Yes.

22:22>> Commissioner Stratton.

22:24>> Yes.

22:25>> Commissioner Turner?

22:26>> Yes.

22:33>> You turn Rob again?

22:34>> All right. So, Mr. Chairman, thank you

22:37very much.

22:43I'm going to ask Weston & Sampson

22:45engineers to

22:48to do the presentation on the Worcester

22:50Common Master Plan.

22:52So, we've done a lot of work in looking

22:54at renovating this space, keeping it as

22:59a

23:01you know

23:03365

23:05day

23:06a year event space as well as a

23:09space for

23:11just general use.

23:14And we're looking for 18 hours a day and

23:16we're also looking for

23:19trying to make sure that we have, you

23:20know, all season weather uses. So,

23:24Worcester Common is one of our main

23:25facilities that really focuses on just

23:29general use and events.

23:31The more the

23:33most people when they want to have an

23:35event, they're looking to have it at

23:36Worcester Common. And

23:39you know, what we've learned over the

23:41last 20 years with the ice rink and and

23:44the sort of the layout and everything

23:46else, we we've realized some areas that

23:48we need to look at sort of expanding,

23:52look at areas to enhance

23:54the operational side

23:56to give event organizers better spacing,

24:00better use, better capabilities to have

24:04large-scale events.

24:07No different than our Festival of Lights

24:10or our festivals or anything along those

24:13lines. So,

24:14I'm going to ask Reagan to one introduce

24:16herself and then have her go through the

24:20presentation and we'll be happy to take

24:22any questions.

24:23>> So, Reagan.

24:23>> Okay, great. Good evening, everyone.

24:26Reagan Andriola, senior project manager

24:28and landscape architect with Weston

24:30Sampson. I So very excited to be here.

24:32It's been several months.

24:35Summer last time we were in here spring.

24:38And so we're excited about where we've

24:40landed with the design.

24:42We're going to do a few slides in the

24:44beginning just to recap some of existing

24:46conditions, the feedback that we had

24:48received so far just in case anyone

24:50hasn't been part of the prior two

24:52meetings that we had. You want to jump

24:54to the next slide?

24:55Brendan.

24:56Okay, so quick cap recap on master plan

25:00goals. What we're trying to do is

25:01increase our site accessibility, add

25:03more year-round programming like Rob

25:05mentioned, refresh refresh existing

25:07amenities by providing upgraded

25:10permanent infrastructure and improving

25:12just the overall use of the common. So

25:14we're really we're falling into two

25:15categories here. Improving and replacing

25:20infrastructure that's already there

25:21that's aging and then adding amenities

25:23and programming that currently don't

25:25exist. And the idea is that by doing all

25:27of that, we bring more people to the

25:30common.

25:31Next slide.

25:32Just a refresher on the scope of work.

25:35We are doing this particular section

25:37here in the red dashed line. We're not

25:39focusing on the entirety of the common.

25:42So really the area where the rink is

25:44right now between City Hall Plaza and

25:46down to the World War II Memorial.

25:49We are not touching the memorial. That

25:51will remain of course.

25:53So if we look here just a few of the

25:54existing elements that are out there now

25:56that you may or may not

25:57not be aware of.

25:59Starting we'll kind of do

26:00counterclockwise. 1:00 there are

26:02temporary support building. That's that

26:04small shed.

26:06That has only a few years left on its

26:08permit through Mass Historic. So

26:11that is used by DCU for skate sales or

26:16skate rentals during the winter seasons

26:18for the rink and used by other the bid

26:21and cultural events that are out there.

26:24So

26:25moving around we have the large lawn

26:28area on the right side on the Front

26:30Street side. Um, currently unprogrammed

26:33space, but it is used during the winter

26:35months for all the snow removal off of

26:37the rink is stored there. There's a big

26:38pile of snow.

26:40Um, moving around obviously the world

26:42>> Like one second Reagan, just uh,

26:44reiterate on that grass area on the

26:45Front Street side, which is the right

26:47hand side of your of the photo here. Um,

26:50that area was initially designed or

26:53initially permitted in in the master

26:56plan from 2004. That was supposed to be

26:59a support building. So, that grass area

27:01was actually going to be a support

27:03building that would have housed the

27:05chiller and the related infrastructure

27:08for the rink.

27:09And,

27:10um, sort of a it was the northern

27:12terminus of the Blackstone Valley

27:14bikeway. Um, that never came to to

27:18completion. Um, the that area has just

27:20been grass. Uh, it gets beat up on a

27:22regular basis just because of the way we

27:24use it.

27:26Uh, but what we are looking to do is

27:28reprogram that as you'll see in the

27:30upcoming photos of what we're what we're

27:33trying to do in that space. But,

27:34programming-wise, that was going to be a

27:37building and that entire green space was

27:39going to be

27:40um, a building in that location. Sorry,

27:42Reagan.

27:43>> Nope, that's okay.

27:44Um, in the center obviously we have the

27:47oval ice rink. Um, it's about 12,000

27:50square feet.

27:52Used 3 months out of the year by DCU.

27:55Um, as Rob mentioned the uh, aging

27:58infrastructure that has been there for

27:5920 years now. Um, it has served it us

28:03well, um, but is aging.

28:06And in the upper left corner is a

28:07support building foundation. So, there's

28:09about a 30 by 20 foot foundation that

28:12was actually built, um,

28:14for to house a building there. Um, some

28:16of you may or may not have even noticed

28:18it. It's tucked in there. Um, but

28:20there's no building on it. So, um, as

28:22you'll see coming up that that is a

28:23great um, space for us to use as we uh,

28:27advance

28:28the design here. Obviously there are

28:30trees on the left hand side. We did a

28:32tree survey, which I believe is the next

28:34slide. Um combination of Actually, do

28:38you want to just flip to the next one,

28:39Brenda? Beautiful. Um combination of

28:43conditions here. The red is in poor,

28:45yellow is fair, and then we have a

28:47handful in good condition. Most of those

28:49are smaller. The good condition ones are

28:51smaller and or um on the outskirts of

28:54the limit of work.

28:55Um but again, you can see here that we

28:57don't have any trees on the right-hand

28:59side. One of the elements here is that

29:01we are limited with shade. Um so we have

29:04this wide-open space in the middle.

29:06So thinking forward as we want to

29:09provide shade for the space, but also

29:12redevelop um

29:14or maintain the the skating out here.

29:18Uh there are limitations because because

29:20the skating rink must be one monolithic

29:22pour of concrete. We cannot have any

29:24sort of um breaks in that or structures.

29:28Um you know, shade structures. So we

29:30have to think about spanning that. So

29:31that is one of the constraints that we

29:33have been considering as we move

29:35forward. Uh next slide.

29:39We did quite a bit of public engagement.

29:41This is our third meeting here tonight,

29:42but we have also met with DCU Center

29:44several times. We've met with the

29:46Worcester Cultural Development Division.

29:48Um we've received feedback from um the

29:52Public Safety Department as well as um

29:54some information from the BID. So Public

29:57Safety and accessibility, obviously

29:59their concerns are perimeter safety um

30:03and security along the boundaries.

30:05Obviously, we want this site to be open

30:07in order to get food trucks and all the

30:09different um users of the park um of of

30:13the common, but we also need to secure

30:16it, too. There are bollards currently

30:17around the perimeter, many of which are

30:19broken. So thinking about strategic um

30:23control of those edges, as well as

30:27enhanced lighting

30:29and security um out there.

30:31We've also heard feedback um in wanting

30:34increased programming, obviously from

30:36arts and

30:37cultural the cultural development

30:39division.

30:40So, and we've heard about wanting to

30:42expand the skating rink to support more

30:44activities, full-size rink for hockey,

30:47curling is is becoming more popular,

30:51more things that we could do out there,

30:53as well as thinking about a flexible

30:54stage for concerts, performances, civic

30:57events, that. And then, obviously, our

30:59amenities. We want to update the

31:02upgrade the actual amenities that go

31:05along with the rink.

31:07So, an

31:08operations building. We've spoken with

31:10the DCU about the logistical challenges

31:13that they have with the current shed

31:15there and its proximity

31:18from the rink.

31:20So, thinking about ways that we can

31:22improve that, improve spectator seating,

31:25as well as having additional electrical

31:28and water access for users of the

31:32common. More shade. Obviously, that has

31:35been a bigger a big note from the

31:38public, as well, that it gets so hot out

31:40there in the summer. So, how can we

31:41provide that shade

31:43um

31:44while also addressing all these other

31:46concerns. Next slide.

31:49Looking back this looking through at

31:52other public spaces, we're trying to get

31:53some inspiration on

31:56you know, other civic spaces and what

31:59you could do with hardscape, with shade

32:01structures. So, this is just um a

32:04grouping of some of our inspiration

32:06photos. You'll see how this plays in

32:08into our next slide. We're just going to

32:11jump right into our concept here. So,

32:13this is our master plan concept. We have

32:16um

32:17expanded the mids area to fit a

32:20full-size hockey rink. You'll see that

32:21in the next slide, but before I get to

32:23that, one of our constraints and

32:25considerations was we do not want to

32:26have a space that in the other 9 months

32:29of the year, when a rink is not being

32:30used, it looks like an empty rink in the

32:33middle, right? Um we didn't want that.

32:35So, we are playing with strategic

32:39and creative use of the ground plane and

32:43different pavement and hardscape

32:45patterning,

32:46um,

32:47shaping of the,

32:49uh, planting areas all around. How can

32:51we be strategic about getting plantings

32:54interior, but while still leaving that

32:56space in the middle that would fit your

32:58rink infrastructure? And then how do we

33:00provide shade? Um, so again, we'll kind

33:03of go counterclockwise around here.

33:06What we have in the top right corner, in

33:08place of the existing shed structure, we

33:10have a new operations building. This is

33:12a 40 by 24 size building,

33:15um, larger than what is out there now

33:17and which will support,

33:18um,

33:19DCU's operations in the winter months

33:22and then,

33:24um, the BID, cultural development, any

33:27other users of the site throughout the

33:28rest of the months, um, rest of the

33:30year, other 9 months of the year.

33:32Mirroring that on the left side, top

33:34left corner, in place where that

33:36existing foundation is would be our

33:38maintenance building. And we're tucking

33:41both of these right in on either side of

33:42City Hall Plaza and you'll see on, um,

33:44upcoming slides that these would mimic

33:47the, uh, architecture of City Hall. So

33:50we'd have that historical facade on the

33:52buildings. The maintenance side would be

33:55during the winter months the Zamboni

33:57could be stored there. Currently DCU

33:59drives that back and forth, um, every

34:00day, so we'd have storage for the

34:02Zamboni in the winter months and then

34:04the rest of the year, um, that space is

34:06where you can store the boards

34:09and all the infrastructure for the

34:10actual hockey rink. Um, and then

34:12obviously back to the operations

34:14buildings, that's where ticket sales can

34:15happen,

34:16um, and we also have an additional

34:18storage area in that space.

34:21Um, as we move along the side, um, we

34:23have what we are calling a multi-use

34:25stage plaza. We have a uh,

34:28sloped up platform area on the Front

34:31Street side. And what we wanted to do

34:33was provide an area that acts as a

34:35stage, however, on every day, you know,

34:38the Monday through

34:39Monday through Friday use, folks can sit

34:42up there. Um it also provides a slightly

34:44elevated space for looking down on

34:46whatever activities are going on in the

34:48middle.

34:49Um so really multi-use

34:51space. And you'll get to see them this

34:53in our 3D renderings coming up where

34:55it's a little bit easier to visualize.

34:58Um

34:59as we come around, we have the World War

35:01Memorial that will remain. And then

35:04mirroring that multi-use stage plaza on

35:06the Front Street side, we haven't raised

35:09seating plaza on the Franklin Street

35:11side. That comes up slightly

35:14um about a foot and a half higher than

35:16the rest. So again, this creates

35:18nice tight lines across the whole

35:21common, but also creates more of a

35:23pocket room, if you will. So it starts

35:26to break up that huge expanse of

35:28pavement and create these smaller

35:30gathering spaces, while also still

35:33having direct sightlines throughout. Um

35:36nice little raised planting areas, um

35:38for our lawn and shade trees. And then

35:40we have that way to integrate more shade

35:42trees and and green space into the

35:45common. We're pulling that in a little

35:46bit tighter.

35:48Um and then obviously the big piece

35:50across both of on the right side are two

35:53architectural shade structures. You'll

35:55see them better as we come into the the

35:57next few slides. Um but the idea is that

36:00these are really an interesting focal

36:02piece, provides uh shade throughout the

36:05year. It also will shade that side of

36:08the rink which currently melts a lot

36:10faster because of the way the solar

36:13uh gain is in that um

36:15January-February months. So we're hoping

36:18by covering that, that helps us um with

36:21the rink.

36:22Um and then it also maintains you still

36:25have views through to City Hall.

36:27Let's jump to the next slide.

36:31This is showing you how the rink fits

36:33into that space.

36:34Um so you can see it tucks right in

36:36there. The shade structure would span

36:38over it, creating a really cool

36:40architectural

36:41um interest in the common and

36:45in this [clears throat]

36:46um this view you can see on the page

36:49north side right below the City Hall

36:51Plaza stairs is where we would have the

36:53team benches um for the hockey rink and

36:56then on the other side on the south side

37:00uh sorry, page south side would be

37:02temporary spectator bleachers that could

37:04be brought in um for folks watching

37:06games, watching your everyday um free

37:09skate out there.

37:11On the far left

37:13on that raised plaza area that would be

37:16in the winter where we could have the

37:18storage that Rob was mentioning was

37:20previously on the Front Street Lawn

37:22side. We would instead be using that

37:25raised plaza area where we can store

37:27some of the snow that gets removed off

37:29the rink. Um and then that's that's off

37:32to the side and you still have

37:33circulation all around the rink.

37:36Um we would also be integrating new

37:38lighting um which you'll see in the next

37:40few slides. So the shade structure is

37:42what we're proposing something it's made

37:44out of an ETFE is what it's called and

37:46it's light, flexible

37:48um

37:49panels

37:50>> [clears throat]

37:51>> that we can do. There's, you know, a

37:53multitude of of colors and materiality

37:55that we can choose from. We would again

37:57try and choose a framework that matches

38:00uh the City Hall and in those warm tones

38:03and really

38:04um matches with the historical look of

38:06the whole space.

38:09Next slide, please.

38:11Um this is just zooming out so you can

38:13kind of see how it tucks into the whole

38:14overall

38:16common and the neighborhood context.

38:19Um so it's almost we're keeping that

38:21oval but just expanding it a little bit

38:23bigger. Next slide, please.

38:26This is just to show your site

38:27circulation that really um even with

38:30these shade structures you still have

38:33circulation throughout and really no

38:36obstructions um and multiple ways that

38:38people can navigate through the space.

38:41Next slide.

38:43Um this is just a little bit of our

38:45shade structure inspiration. Obviously,

38:47these are much larger

38:50and a little bit more ornate, but that

38:52top middle one is is probably one of the

38:55closest images that we

38:58were drawing from for the idea of the

39:00shade structure over that stage area. So

39:04again, it almost becomes like a stage

39:07pavilion the way you have that shade

39:09structure over the elevated platform.

39:12Next slide,

39:13please.

39:14Um

39:15again, just seeing showing the side by

39:17side.

39:18I had mentioned previously some of the

39:20hardscape options that we were thinking

39:23about. Obviously again, the rink itself

39:26cannot has to be one all concrete

39:28monolithic pour. Um and also because

39:32this gets used

39:34for roller skating

39:35in the summer months and that's very

39:37popular. We can't be doing any sort of

39:40etching or texture on that surface. So

39:43we'd be mainly using an integral colored

39:45concrete in that area.

39:47But then on the perimeter through that,

39:49we have the opportunity to use whether

39:51it's concrete unit pavers, granite unit

39:54pavers,

39:56and exposed aggregate. We have could do

39:58a series of these different types of

40:00applications along the the edge to break

40:04up the mass of the concrete and really

40:06give it some more interest on the ground

40:09plane.

40:10Next slide, please.

40:13Um site lighting as I mentioned, we

40:15would be integrating all new site

40:17lighting and we would have

40:19the idea would be to integrate lighting

40:21into that shade structure as well. So a

40:23really cool element um in the winter

40:26months.

40:27Um year round really, but

40:30this would be new sports lighting

40:32similar to what's out there now, but

40:34refresh sports lighting to light up the

40:36rink as well as your typical pedestrian

40:38lighting throughout and then we have

40:41the option to potentially explore seat

40:44wall lighting.

40:46Next slide.

40:48Um again, the architectural inspiration

40:51for the two buildings that we are

40:52discussing. Obviously, City Hall has

40:55some beautiful architecture that we can

40:57draw from. Uh, and that would be the

40:59idea to have matching roof line,

41:01windows, granite facade, um, with the

41:04same detailing. Next slide, please.

41:07And these are very preliminary, but the

41:09idea is that these are the maintenance

41:10and operations building. The left one

41:12on, um,

41:13on the left side, that would be your

41:15maintenance,

41:16um, building. That's where your Zamboni

41:18would be stored in the winter, and then

41:20the other months is where the hockey

41:22boards and glass and all that

41:23infrastructure could be stored.

41:26Um, we would have the garage doors look,

41:27match the look of the doors on City Hall

41:30Plaza.

41:31And then the other side, um, would be

41:33the operations building, where you'd

41:35have, um,

41:36windows that would work for your

41:38concessions, your sales. But again, we

41:40would have those mimic, um,

41:43architectural components of City Hall.

41:46Next slide.

41:48Now we're just getting into some details

41:50in our 3D renderings of some of the, um,

41:52more specific areas. This is that raised

41:54plaza area that was on the Franklin

41:56Street side, and you can see it's very

41:58subtle, um, just a couple steps up in

42:00the middle, and then on either side it

42:02they it's gently slopes up, ramps up.

42:05Um, and then again, the idea is that you

42:08can have these slightly mounded lawn

42:10areas with,

42:12um, shade trees, so you get that

42:14integration of landscape and green space

42:17in amongst the paving,

42:20um, but still maintain views through the

42:23common. Next slide.

42:26Um, these are some possible seating

42:28options that we're exploring. On the far

42:30left is that proposed seat wall design,

42:33where we would potentially have it

42:34slightly sloped and curving.

42:37Um, and then underneath, you can see in

42:39the,

42:40uh, top image is where we could where

42:43exploring integrating lighting

42:45underneath there. So you have a nice

42:47soft,

42:48um, light. And then obviously, we'd have

42:50strategic locations for

42:53traditional benches throughout the site

42:56as well as some granite blocks um

42:59similar to that middle picture middle

43:01left picture. So there we have a variety

43:03of it um

43:04but for the most part that that seat

43:06wall design is something that we think

43:08would be really nice in the space.

43:11>> [cough]

43:11>> Next slide. [clears throat]

43:13And then we can start to look at some

43:15views. So this is our bird's eye view

43:18looking down

43:20of the shade structure. Next

43:24slide, please.

43:26Looking at this in the summer months,

43:28how people could use the space.

43:30Next slide.

43:32In the winter with a rink.

43:35Um next slide, please.

43:38Here's that view of the raised plaza on

43:40the

43:42um

43:43on the Franklin Street side. The other

43:45idea and we'll be getting to a slide

43:47about this a little bit later is that um

43:50the other detailed and technical benefit

43:53of doing this raised plaza is

43:56potentially doing

43:58using these pedestal pavers so that

44:00underneath that becomes a storm water

44:03storage space and as well as if we store

44:06the snow piled on there as it melts

44:08through um you know that just kind of

44:11goes through that void space underneath.

44:14Um so I think it's a really neat

44:16engineering and kind of technical piece

44:18that solves several

44:21um

44:22technical issues that are out there and

44:24logistical um things related to the

44:27rink. So

44:28um

44:29again that gives us a really way

44:31interesting way to do use design details

44:34in the paving but also solve an

44:36engineering

44:38issue and logistical nightmare with the

44:41snow.

44:42Next slide, please. Okay, here's another

44:44view of that raised plaza.

44:46Um again

44:49um

44:50becomes sort of like its own room. Next

44:53slide. This is a view from the World War

44:55II Memorial looking back at City Hall.

44:58As you can see, the views straight to

45:01the City Hall are not

45:03obstructed by the shade structure to the

45:05right, but it does give an interesting

45:08um visual component to the space. Next

45:11slide.

45:13Um this would be looking from the Front

45:15Street entrance at the operations

45:17building to the right

45:20going underneath the shade structure.

45:23Next slide.

45:25This is looking from the Franklin Street

45:26side with um City Hall to your left and

45:30then looking through under those shade

45:32structures.

45:34Next slide.

45:36Um this it would be on top of that stage

45:39area, if you will, um that raised plaza

45:41area looking down on the central space

45:44of the common. Next slide.

45:47Um from a little [clears throat] further

45:48back

45:50um to the common. Next slide.

45:53Um this would be the view from Front

45:55Street.

45:58Next slide.

46:00Um and then sort of zooming out to give

46:02you the whole downtown context of how

46:04that would fit into the space.

46:07Uh next slide.

46:10These are the pedestal pavers that I was

46:12mentioning. Um so again, there's the

46:14potential option to utilize these

46:17um in certain portions of the plaza um

46:21and the common. And again, they can also

46:24have integrated heating in them. So the

46:26idea is that instead of having a huge

46:28pile of snow that's there till May,

46:30right?

46:31Um that the snow pile would melt a lot

46:34quicker. Um we've also talked about

46:37integrating radiant heating into the

46:39accessible ramp, um which is actually a

46:41component I forgot to

46:43point out in the master plan, but we are

46:45adding in an accessible ramp from City

46:47Hall Plaza immediately down to the

46:49common.

46:51Uh next slide, please.

46:54And lastly, we were talking about site

46:56security, bollards, and some strategic

46:59force protection. So, currently the

47:00bollards that are out there right now

47:02are broken.

47:03Um so, we're looking into something that

47:05is a little bit easier to manage,

47:08something that is retractable, a

47:10mechanical bollard instead of something

47:12that has to be locked or unlocked and

47:14lifted up and taken out, and something

47:16that's a little bit sturdier,

47:18um but also looks nice. So, there's

47:20options for that. And then again, some

47:23strategic placement of the force

47:25protection, these blocks similar to what

47:26you have at the corner already with the

47:28Worcester um letters in it, but putting

47:31those at some of the intersections where

47:35um the where there are cross streets

47:37that are coming in towards the common.

47:39So, that would be outside along the

47:41perimeter that we're considering, and

47:42then that also serves as seating, and

47:44that can be done nicely

47:46um without looking like we're caging in

47:49the the common, right? So,

47:51um and I think that's all we've got.

47:55Sorry, that was it was long, but it was

47:57a lot

47:58>> [laughter]

47:58>> There's a lot of key pieces that we've

48:00done.

48:01Actually, Brendan, the last two slides

48:02are just the overall. If you want to

48:05I tucked them right at the end, so if we

48:06want to

48:08look at them.

48:09Um

48:10yeah, the accessible ramp that I

48:12failed to mention is right there.

48:15Um I don't know if you can point to it,

48:16Brendan.

48:17Um between the operations building and

48:19the existing stairs.

48:21So, that way we have a direct access

48:23down from City Hall Plaza right there.

48:28All right.

48:29Questions? Or Rob, anything that I

48:32missed?

48:34>> Uh any any hands up online from our

48:36commission members, Jeff? I see one

48:37popped up.

48:51Eric.

48:54Yeah, um so, uh I love this. This looks

48:56great. Um I really like the um, the

49:00overall design.

49:02Um, I appreciate that those, uh,

49:04operation buildings are going to match

49:05the style of City Hall.

49:08Um, and I think that the architectural

49:11shades are really nice touch as well.

49:13Um, I think that can be one of the

49:14issues, you know, we run into with that

49:15plaza especially during the summer

49:17months that it just gets really warm and

49:20sunny out there and that, you know,

49:21having some additional shade can be

49:22really helpful. Um, the the two kind of

49:26questions I have, one is just with

49:28regards to the, um, accessible ramp with

49:32the radiant heating or the, um, pedestal

49:35pavers or radiant heating kind of for

49:37for that section,

49:38do we have an idea of what the

49:42sort of, um, I guess failure rate of

49:44those are? I love the idea that for the

49:47the maintenance and the and the crew

49:49kind of keeping those clear and clean

49:50that they have sort of some some

49:52mechanisms to help with that and

49:53especially with the ramp because I know

49:55that can be a pain to to shovel clear,

49:57but it is really important to have that

49:59available. Um, do we do we know if those

50:02are something that are reliable? That

50:04we're not going to have, you know, be

50:05installing a system that, you know,

50:07tends to have a pretty high failure rate

50:09if that makes sense.

50:11>> So,

50:12to through the chair to the

50:13commissioner,

50:15um,

50:16we currently have the ramp that's

50:18outside of our office at 50 Officer

50:20Manny Familia Way

50:22has a heating component to it. Um,

50:26we've had it's 22

50:28years old.

50:30Uh, maybe a little bit older than that.

50:32Um, we've had a couple of minor things

50:34here and there, but overall it works

50:36really, really well.

50:37Um, it's pretty consistent on our end of

50:40it.

50:41Uh, it works the way we need it to work,

50:43uh, on that end of it. Um, as it relates

50:46to the

50:48heated pedestal pavers, I'll throw that

50:50back at Reagan. I don't have a lot of

50:52history, at least on my end of that, but

50:54I'll I'll let Reagan talk a little bit

50:56about that.

50:57>> Well,

50:58>> [clears throat]

50:58>> again, there's a couple different, um,

51:00options, but with the pedestals

51:02specifically and adding in those trays,

51:05um the great the part about that is that

51:07it gets an electrical it can be an

51:09electric system, so you don't have to

51:11have

51:12um the same level of um infrastructure

51:17that the radiant heating needs, like the

51:20um all the piping and everything.

51:21Um and again, because it's an individual

51:24component, it's very easy to take that

51:26heating element um off of each paver

51:29except its own individual tray. Um and I

51:32do know that these are wildly popular at

51:36um

51:37ski resorts, right? So, in a lot of ski

51:39resorts, they use these as um as decks

51:43and outside of the um facilities. So,

51:47I don't have I can't say exactly

51:51um

51:52what the failure point may be, but I you

51:54know, again, I think that they're um

51:57it's an easier

51:59system to replace versus some of the the

52:02more embedded um

52:05radiant heating systems, if that makes

52:07sense. And Brandon, I know we've done

52:09the Arlington City Hall, that was a

52:11radiant heating system, right? And

52:13that's has been very

52:16like no problems there.

52:17Yep.

52:23>> Great, thank you. I I appreciate that.

52:26Um and I'm glad to hear that it sounds

52:27like these are fairly reliable systems.

52:29>> Yeah, I mean, I think the technology as

52:32it has developed over the last 25 years

52:36or since radiant, you know, heating has

52:38really come into its own, it's gotten a

52:40lot more uh durable, a lot more

52:43consistent. Um we're seeing where

52:45they're using very low, as Reagan

52:48mentioned, very low electric current. Uh

52:51they're they're actually putting

52:53uh metal

52:54um we'll call it metal shavings uh

52:58within concrete panels. The current runs

53:00through the metal shavings uh and serves

53:03as um

53:04a heating system. They're using it on

53:07bridges

53:08um

53:09and so you're actually removing the

53:12mechanical system. It just becomes an

53:14electrical current at that point.

53:21Did you have a second

53:23part, Eric? I thought you said two

53:24things.

53:26>> Sorry, I did. Yes. Uh the the second

53:28thing I have just cuz I I wasn't seeing

53:30it on the map.

53:31Um and and please keep me honest on this

53:34uh as well, Rob. Um

53:36uh

53:37bike racks. Um I didn't seem to see

53:39those anywhere in this in terms of

53:40places people can actually, you know,

53:42park park their bikes.

53:44Um so I'm just trying to sort of

53:45identify like where would that be in in

53:48this sort of plan?

53:51>> Uh

53:52So, through the chair, uh those would be

53:54at the entrances. Uh we would find a

53:56home to be able to put those into. We We

53:59did not put those on the plan in this

54:01sort of iteration.

54:03Uh I knew you were going to ask that

54:05question.

54:06Uh so, uh but they will be on the final

54:08plan as we move forward, but they would

54:10be at the entrances. We We don't want

54:12people biking across the common.

54:15Uh we want people to be able to put

54:16their bikes at the at the entrances to

54:18the common and be able to

54:20um store them in those locations.

54:24>> Uh and that's that sounds good as long

54:25as there there's adequate bike parking

54:27cuz I do think with some of these

54:28events,

54:29um especially, you know, in the nicer

54:31months, it's great when people can

54:32actually show up. They can get their

54:33bike. They can park their bike and kind

54:35of go enjoy and then when they're done,

54:37leave by bike cuz we know parking can be

54:38very complicated in the city, especially

54:40when there's an event. But otherwise, I

54:41think this looks fantastic.

54:44>> Thank you, Eric.

54:46Jeff, was this I see more hands, I

54:47think.

54:51>> Hey, this is Brian Doherty. I I think

54:52you we've all covered it. I'm I'm I'm

54:54not going to beat a dead horse. I think

54:55the plan is phenomenal. I love the

54:57design. I love the thoughtfulness. The

55:00feedback that was taken into account of

55:02the you know, over the course of the

55:04first two meetings we've had and then of

55:06course the feedback that they went out

55:07and um surveyed, you know, uh different

55:09departments and got the feedback. I

55:11think it was implemented um flawlessly

55:14as as expected. Um and I'm just really

55:16excited about the next steps. Really

55:18well done.

55:21>> Thank you.

55:23Anyone else, Jeff?

55:26Natalie?

55:27>> Um

55:29I have a few questions about the design.

55:31Um overall, it looks like the design is

55:35adding um

55:37some square footage onto these

55:38buildings, these existing buildings. I

55:41know that um one of them

55:43is doesn't even

55:45have um

55:46existence right now, but my worry is

55:49about the canopy. I do understand that,

55:52you know,

55:53we're we're taking away that green space

55:56towards French in front of French

55:57Street. And then I do see that there is

56:01eight trees. There's three in poor

56:04condition and five in fair condition,

56:06and then the rest there's 13 left. But

56:09with the extension of the size of the

56:11oval and the extension of the size of

56:15both of these buildings, how much of the

56:17tree canopy are we and the hardscaping

56:20of the staging and the pavement down at

56:23the bottom, we're taking out a lot of

56:25the canopy in a very hot zone. How much

56:28of the canopy are we taking out and are

56:30we replacing overall with these um these

56:33designs?

56:39>> Uh yes, you're right. The the trees on

56:41the Franklin Street side, there are a

56:44number that we would have to take out in

56:46order to accommodate.

56:48Um

56:48And the rink fits without that, but then

56:50we need to be able to get the access

56:52around it. So, there is I can't tell you

56:54the exact number. Um I I'd have to do a

56:57quick count to see how many exactly we

56:59are removing. Um but we are trying to

57:01maintain um at least a handful of the

57:04large ones on that Franklin Street side,

57:06and then we are adding them back in,

57:08you know, along those perimeters and

57:10those um those new islands that we're

57:13placing. So,

57:14um we could give you a you know, a net

57:16number or try to make sure that we're

57:18hopefully at like a

57:20no net loss of trees. We're also adding

57:23a few more um along the face of Sea Hall

57:25Plaza.

57:27Um and then tucking a few more in on

57:29either side of the stairs there. So,

57:31um I think there's a possibility to

57:34again maintain the number of trees that

57:36are there at least, you know, replace

57:39one for one.

57:40>> I do see on the map on the existing the

57:43tree analysis map I I have it pulled up

57:46that seven of them are actually like

57:48right in

57:49where you want to put the um

57:51the staging.

57:53The only thing

57:55I just worry about the hot zone being

57:59downtown and the bottom pavement part

58:02where that huge walkway is, that's all

58:05trees right there that are coming out

58:07just on this side, which makes me worry

58:11that it's going to get even hotter down

58:12there. And

58:14it gets roasting down there. And you

58:16know, the fact that they're losing the

58:17green patch, which I know it's really

58:20hard to

58:21do anything with that green patch. It's

58:23just there. Um I like that it's being

58:27included into the oval and then you're

58:29putting the shade canopy over it, but

58:31then it just leaves that other piece to

58:33where

58:35it's more

58:38I don't know, we're we're losing more

58:39trees is basically my biggest

58:43my biggest thing. We're losing more

58:44trees downtown

58:46in one of the hottest part is parts of

58:48the city. So, um I worry about that

58:51overall.

58:54>> So,

58:55through the chair,

58:57needs to be some give and take when

58:59you're looking at, you know, trying to

59:01build this out for what we have going on

59:04down there. So, understanding your point

59:07and that's one of the reasons why we've

59:08sort of pushed on the shade side when it

59:11comes to this sort this

59:13this shade component that goes over the

59:15rink and and comes in that area.

59:18Understanding that piece of it.

59:20Secondarily, I think on our end of it

59:22when we go into final design, you know,

59:25we'll look at these

59:27you know, based on the final layout of

59:29everything, these

59:32grass areas, these areas where we can

59:35put trees into

59:37and identify larger trees, right? Maybe

59:40instead of doing a small 2-in caliber

59:43tree, maybe we're looking at putting in

59:46a 5-in caliber tree or something larger

59:48into that space to make up years of time

59:52to to take a you know, that were that we

59:55may be taking away in some of the other

59:57locations.

59:59Um

1:00:01In the end, when you when you're down

1:00:03there and you look at how the common

1:00:05gets is operated, uh

1:00:08the more space the more protection we

1:00:11can have with these raised beds, with

1:00:14these areas where the trees are can go

1:00:17and only pedestrians can really get to,

1:00:20um the better off we are because what

1:00:23we're doing right now is we're putting

1:00:25all of these events into those grass

1:00:28areas, we're compacting that whole area,

1:00:31um and

1:00:33if you walk down there anytime right

1:00:34now, you'll see the tree roots, you can

1:00:36see all of that. So, part of it is also

1:00:38the long-term protection of what you're

1:00:40trying to keep and what you're trying to

1:00:42add in there. And by putting these

1:00:44raised beds in there or these raised

1:00:46areas, I think we're what we're doing is

1:00:47we're helping those trees survive better

1:00:51for the longer term. Um many of those

1:00:53trees are yes, they're old. They are as

1:00:56you you know, you can see on the plan,

1:00:58there's a bunch that need to be removed

1:00:59that are in very poor condition.

1:01:02Um we've been trying to stay on top of

1:01:04those with our forestry division to try

1:01:07to keep them as long as possible. Um

1:01:11But unfortunately, at sometimes you're

1:01:12going to get to that point where you're

1:01:13going to have to take him down, and for

1:01:15me, I'd rather do that

1:01:18when we do the renovation, and then have

1:01:20the new trees ready to go and put in,

1:01:23than leave a tree, and then

1:01:26if if we think that it's in fair

1:01:29condition, leave it, and then all of a

1:01:30sudden, 2 years, 3 years later, we're

1:01:33you know, we're going back, and we're

1:01:34cutting the thing down. So,

1:01:36there there's a give and take on it. I

1:01:38completely understand your component of

1:01:40it. The Front Street side, that grass

1:01:42area,

1:01:43it was always designed as a building.

1:01:45That building would was much larger than

1:01:48those two buildings that we're proposing

1:01:50put together.

1:01:51Um so,

1:01:52um

1:01:54I think what we're looking to do is

1:01:55trying to tuck those up into an area

1:01:57that is usually is really unusable right

1:02:00now operationally for us. Um and and

1:02:05then giving us that full flexibility for

1:02:07the events that we do have on the

1:02:09common, and then try to keep people and

1:02:12these that the equipment that they bring

1:02:13in onto hardscape areas,

1:02:16which then allows the tree areas and all

1:02:19of that to continue to flourish on that

1:02:22end of it. Um but, I'll be honest, there

1:02:25is a give and take. We've talked about

1:02:26on our end of it, the trees,

1:02:30so when you look on the bottom of the

1:02:31page, those trees going down Front

1:02:34Street towards Church,

1:02:36um the trees that are in the middle,

1:02:39that middle walkway, there's opportunity

1:02:41there to

1:02:43um as part of this, or or as part of

1:02:46another program, go in and and put new

1:02:49trees in those locations as well,

1:02:51um to continue to enhance what we have

1:02:54for

1:02:55for tree availability, and for shade

1:02:57availability. Um

1:03:00the problem is is we're trying to manage

1:03:02events, people, shade We're trying to

1:03:05manage a lot of it, and so what we're

1:03:07really looking to do is use

1:03:09infrastructure as part of the shade

1:03:11component, right? So, the shade there,

1:03:14the picnic tables would look to prob

1:03:16would look to have some type of

1:03:18umbrellas like we do now on the common.

1:03:20Um

1:03:22so we would look to really include that

1:03:23where it's a little bit more usable for

1:03:26events um while still giving the shade

1:03:29that we need to give.

1:03:31>> I think overall looking like re-looking

1:03:34at it with the tree analysis, I think

1:03:36overall the trees that you're taking out

1:03:39are going to be the ones that are

1:03:40problematic already um overall.

1:03:44The other thing if there are use cheap

1:03:48liberty excuse me, if there are uh

1:03:50through the chair to the commissioner,

1:03:51if there are usable trees, are you

1:03:53replanting those in different places or

1:03:56are we just getting rid of them?

1:03:58>> No, we would not uh transplant any of

1:04:00the trees. Okay. Um

1:04:02Disney may have a really good operation

1:04:04uh but their budget is unlimited um when

1:04:07you go to build uh Animal Kingdom or

1:04:10something else and you want to take a

1:04:11huge tree and put it in.

1:04:12>> Hey, listen, I'm a tree hugger but not

1:04:14that much when it costs too much.

1:04:16>> Um so at least on our end [laughter] of

1:04:18it I I I think our goal really is in the

1:04:20end is to save what we can save, save

1:04:22the best that we can save and then look

1:04:24at that and say, "Okay, well,

1:04:26what is the right tree in the right

1:04:29place?

1:04:31What do we need it to do?

1:04:33And then

1:04:34look to

1:04:36get a larger tree, plant that tree um so

1:04:39that the people that come after all of

1:04:42us, right?

1:04:44Look at and say, "Okay, these people

1:04:45really thought through this in regards

1:04:47to you know, what they what they needed

1:04:50to do and and how they needed to

1:04:53um install this." And and that's really

1:04:55the end goal for us.

1:04:57I think that

1:04:59by taking out some of those

1:05:01the

1:05:02the trees that are in that in decline

1:05:04and sort of moving down on the health

1:05:06side

1:05:07uh by doing that, we're we're more able

1:05:10to plant something that's going to be

1:05:11there for generations to come than to

1:05:14leave there and then in

1:05:17handful of years bring in a truck to

1:05:18have to you know, cut the thing down and

1:05:20remove it.

1:05:22>> I agree. I I totally agree. Through the

1:05:24um chair to the commissioner, um I want

1:05:27to say

1:05:28that, you know, overall

1:05:31I love this plan.

1:05:33Um and I love the design of that kind of

1:05:37funky architecture to like go over as

1:05:40shade, overall. And

1:05:44you do a really great job, Commissioner,

1:05:47with um

1:05:48thinking about our future generations

1:05:51when it comes to these parks and

1:05:52ensuring that, you know, there is still

1:05:55some green space.

1:05:57Doesn't mean I'm not going to challenge

1:05:59you all the time, but

1:06:01>> [laughter]

1:06:02>> I do I do really do love this design and

1:06:04I do think that, overall, this looks

1:06:07really great. I think you guys did a

1:06:10wonderful job with this.

1:06:12Um

1:06:13just with the hardscaping, when you mean

1:06:16hardscaping, I know that this was a big

1:06:18thing, um for

1:06:21um Commissioner Stratton previously with

1:06:24the hardscaping. Is this hardscaping

1:06:26going to be something where it's

1:06:28functionable enough where if I need to

1:06:31pull out like a picnic chair or

1:06:32something like that, that it's still

1:06:36um aesthetically pleasing and functional

1:06:40for a long-term sit-down or a lay-down

1:06:42if I want to type thing going on?

1:06:46>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I

1:06:48think you're talking maybe two different

1:06:50things about like the seat walls and

1:06:52that sort of

1:06:53sitting on them, the comfort of that, as

1:06:55well as the actual hardscape, the the um

1:06:58material. And I know we've talked with

1:07:00Parks about there's other

1:07:03um considerations always, the

1:07:04maintenance, the plowing, the how, you

1:07:06know, something that or salting and

1:07:08sanding. We want to make sure whatever

1:07:09we put out there doesn't get damaged by

1:07:11what we need to do to

1:07:13um maintain the site year-round, right?

1:07:16Um

1:07:18but the you know, the idea is that there

1:07:20may be areas of unit pavers that those

1:07:22are easy to swap in and out if needed to

1:07:24be replaced. Um

1:07:26and

1:07:27and shouldn't limit the use of the space

1:07:31in any way or restrict anybody's

1:07:33comfort. So.

1:07:35>> And to uh the earlier comments regarding

1:07:39shade and

1:07:40you know, we would work with the

1:07:42commissioner and

1:07:44uh

1:07:45operations maintenance

1:07:47picking various textures, various

1:07:49colors. Uh cuz you can significantly

1:07:52reduced

1:07:53ground floor temperatures through using

1:07:55lighter pavers.

1:07:56>> Mhm.

1:07:57>> Um

1:07:58and, you know, we can break up what is a

1:08:01larger space, break the scale up by

1:08:03using various textures and

1:08:06uh

1:08:06techniques that help

1:08:08it feel a little bit more intimate, a

1:08:10little bit more comfortable. So.

1:08:11>> Awesome.

1:08:12Thank you for that.

1:08:14>> One of the things to the commission

1:08:17that we do now and I've done since I've

1:08:20been

1:08:21uh with the city of Wester is we bring

1:08:23in our maintenance crews to take a look

1:08:26at these designs.

1:08:28Um

1:08:29because they're the ones in the end that

1:08:30are going to be maintaining these

1:08:31facilities, right? They're going to be

1:08:32the ones that are going to need to

1:08:34understand how it operates and, you

1:08:37know, what they can and can't do. And

1:08:38so, we try to work really closely with

1:08:40our maintenance staff to be able to know

1:08:43what do we got to bring in? How do we

1:08:44got to bring it in? Where does it need

1:08:45to go?

1:08:46Um the snow has been, you know,

1:08:50probably one of the bigger challenges

1:08:51for us on this um

1:08:54in designing out how and where it's

1:08:56going to go.

1:08:56>> Mhm.

1:08:57>> Uh

1:08:58because we have that issue now and it's

1:09:00just where, you know, the idea right now

1:09:02is we're going to flip it from one side

1:09:03to the other side. But, how does that

1:09:05all happen? Um and how do you get in?

1:09:08And how do you do those things? So, I

1:09:10think for us it's it's a lot about

1:09:13trying to make sure that

1:09:16we meet the needs

1:09:18of our

1:09:20residents.

1:09:21>> Mhm.

1:09:21>> Um the events. But, at the same time

1:09:24make it so that the maintenance side of

1:09:26it is a critical important component to

1:09:29what we do

1:09:31because if I can't maintain it or if we

1:09:33as a city can't maintain it

1:09:35then you know we've wasted that money

1:09:37and that that piece because we're not

1:09:40doing it justice.

1:09:41And that's one of the things that we're

1:09:43always looking at in ball field design,

1:09:46court design, whatever is to make sure

1:09:49that we're able to maintain it. And

1:09:51ideally my goal in every single design

1:09:54that we do is to is

1:09:57to reduce the maintenance or the hand

1:10:00work that's required. So when I say hand

1:10:03work I'm talking about trimming

1:10:06with a

1:10:07you know with a weed eater or a trimmer

1:10:11trying to make sure that when our staff

1:10:13are out there and they're on a nice big

1:10:15mower they can just mow.

1:10:17When they have to get off

1:10:19that's just time. That's more and more

1:10:23and more time. So our goal really is is

1:10:25to try to minimize that and minimize the

1:10:27hand work to allow our staff to be able

1:10:29to complete their jobs quicker

1:10:32and easier even though we're expanding

1:10:34the opportunities at a particular

1:10:36facility.

1:10:37>> I appreciate that. I really do because

1:10:39you know at the end of the day um

1:10:42I don't think it's always

1:10:45um thought of about the folks that are

1:10:49the ones maintaining it and so I

1:10:50appreciate that commissioner

1:10:52and I appreciate that when you guys are

1:10:54designing you're looking at that as well

1:10:57because it's very important because the

1:10:59people that are the ones out here doing

1:11:01it every day

1:11:03um

1:11:04their opinion counts and should be

1:11:06included as well. So thank you.

1:11:11>> Not to belabor anything one thing I know

1:11:13we have a hockey rink up there.

1:11:15It's just I I love sport I'm I'm huge at

1:11:18it but we'll look at used if there's no

1:11:20place for the teams to

1:11:22get dressed beforehand. That's all.

1:11:25Have you thought about that? If you I

1:11:26mean if we if it's not if it's not

1:11:27accountable, I say get rid of I mean, I

1:11:29love I like the oval better than the

1:11:31round. To me, that's a it's a more

1:11:32pleasant shape. But, if there's no place

1:11:34for them to get rid of it to use it, I

1:11:35don't want to advertise as we're doing

1:11:37it if it's not going to get used. I

1:11:39would love to see Friday night hockey,

1:11:40you know, Worcester public schools

1:11:42hockey. But, other than that, I think

1:11:45Rob is looking for a motion to approve

1:11:47this master plan to

1:11:48>> Uh no, Mr. Chairman, we we still have

1:11:50some tweaks to make to this.

1:11:51>> Okay.

1:11:52>> Um so, we would be looking just to file

1:11:54this item right now. We'll come back

1:11:56with a um

1:11:58a a final We're not a final We'll

1:12:00probably a final design, probably at our

1:12:02next meeting. Uh we have a couple of

1:12:04steps that we still need to follow. Uh

1:12:06we need to go to Worcester Historical

1:12:08Commission and Mass Historic. Uh so,

1:12:11before we make final determinations of

1:12:13what everything's going to be, uh we

1:12:15want to get those

1:12:16uh at least started in the review

1:12:18process before we finalize anything.

1:12:20>> So, if we can get a motion to file this

1:12:21item from somebody.

1:12:23>> I'll motion to file uh this item.

1:12:28>> Do I have a second?

1:12:33>> Second.

1:12:33>> Second.

1:12:36>> Eric.

1:12:37Eric.

1:12:38Mhm.

1:12:41Commissioner Chessaroni.

1:12:42>> Yes.

1:12:43>> Commissioner Doughty.

1:12:46>> Yes.

1:12:47>> Commissioner Stratton.

1:12:50>> Yes.

1:12:50>> Commissioner Turner.

1:12:51>> Yes.

1:12:53>> Rob, uh Noon Square.

1:12:57>> One second, Mr. Chairman.

1:13:00>> One.

1:13:00>> Thank you.

1:13:09Two.

1:13:24>> Let us be quiet.

1:13:25>> Okay.

1:13:47>> Did you extend it?

1:13:53>> No, I was talking about the monitor.

1:13:56>> What?

1:13:57>> The monitor, it's extended.

1:13:58>> Yeah,

1:13:59I got it.

1:14:37>> Oh, no.

1:15:00Oh, what's this?

1:15:12>> No, it's weird.

1:15:38>> Make it your main screen.

1:15:41>> What?

1:15:41>> Is that checked? Make it your main

1:15:43screen.

1:15:54>> Just slide it left or right.

1:16:08>> What?

1:16:09>> Just try to shut it.

1:16:11I'm pretty sure it's on.

1:16:21If you can search your screen.

1:16:31>> Nope, we have everything.

1:16:41All right, perfect. Thank you.

1:16:43>> Mhm.

1:16:50>> Uh so through the chair, I just wanted

1:16:51to bring this back up uh one last time.

1:16:55Uh we've included in and around the

1:16:58memorial uh plant beds. Uh we've

1:17:00included a plant bed over near the

1:17:04uh entrance to the handball court. We've

1:17:06made some changes and widened made some

1:17:09pathways wider for accessibility well

1:17:12for our vehicle turnaround areas.

1:17:15Um and we included some

1:17:17uh bike racks on either end. So uh

1:17:20ideally what I'd like to do is just have

1:17:22it reapproved with those changes on

1:17:25there. So visually it's there and it's

1:17:27consistent um with the items that we

1:17:30discussed at the last meeting.

1:17:33>> Okay, I motion to

1:17:36I motion to accept the final master plan

1:17:40for parks

1:17:43um for Newton Square

1:17:46um

1:17:47with the revisions that were made.

1:17:56>> I'll second.

1:17:58>> Second.

1:18:01>> Hold on before you go. I don't know if

1:18:02there's any questions or anything.

1:18:03>> Does anyone know know hands online or

1:18:05anything?

1:18:06Uh

1:18:07No, you're good. Okay.

1:18:11So, Eric seconded it?

1:18:14>> Um Commissioner

1:18:16Cetrone?

1:18:16>> Yes.

1:18:17>> Commissioner Doherty?

1:18:22>> Yes.

1:18:24>> Commissioner Stratton?

1:18:26>> Yes.

1:18:27>> Commissioner Charney?

1:18:28>> Yes.

1:18:31>> Okay, Rob. Item D, commission of sale of

1:18:33alcoholic beverages in city parks.

1:18:36>> Yes, Mr. Chairman.

1:18:40Our next item is some recommended

1:18:43changes

1:18:43>> You're a good boy.

1:18:45Who's a good little boy?

1:18:47>> I think I am.

1:18:49>> [snorts]

1:18:50[laughter]

1:18:51>> Um

1:18:53My

1:18:54The next is some changes recommended

1:18:56changes working with the license

1:18:58commission for the sale of alcoholic

1:19:01beverages in city consumption and sale

1:19:03of alcoholic

1:19:05in city parks. In your folder, you have

1:19:07the approved version

1:19:10um that was approved

1:19:12uh last year

1:19:14uh well, earlier this year. And then the

1:19:16second is revisions that we're

1:19:19requesting um

1:19:22and the number and where they would go.

1:19:24So, we would like to have those changes

1:19:27put into the policy um and accept those

1:19:32uh on behalf of both the license

1:19:34commission and us

1:19:36um to sort of streamline a little bit

1:19:38more the process

1:19:40uh in in how things

1:19:42happen.

1:19:43>> So, what is the

1:19:45section two item four wait there's

1:19:48Okay, section not I don't Okay.

1:19:50>> So, section two is procedure I'm sorry.

1:19:53>> Isn't section but isn't section

1:19:54>> Section two is policy.

1:19:56Section it didn't print up the right

1:19:58way.

1:19:58>> Your section two number four in the in

1:20:00the changes is the same thing as the

1:20:01section one number four.

1:20:04Isn't it?

1:20:05>> It's section two.

1:20:06>> Okay, yes they they say the same the

1:20:08same thing don't they?

1:20:10>> Um there's a few a few different words

1:20:12in it.

1:20:13>> Yeah.

1:20:15Yeah, it I it's changed on the

1:20:18given day at a park unless otherwise

1:20:21it's slightly different.

1:20:23>> Yeah.

1:20:23>> Same concept just more clear.

1:20:25>> Yeah.

1:20:28>> And then

1:20:28number

1:20:30I was looking at the wrong number five.

1:20:31>> Erica Bryan?

1:20:34Jeff to any of them? Have any of them?

1:20:40>> Nothing on my end.

1:20:43>> Natalie?

1:20:43>> Nothing on my end.

1:20:45Thank you.

1:20:45>> Just in the um in the main one that we

1:20:47previously approved it has policies and

1:20:50procedures as number two.

1:20:52>> Yes.

1:20:53>> Just update that.

1:20:54>> to update that as well. Yes.

1:20:55>> Yeah.

1:20:56Um

1:20:56but no I um

1:20:59I motion to approve the changes and

1:21:02revisions requested by the license

1:21:04commission.

1:21:06>> And then a second.

1:21:13>> Second.

1:21:14>> Bryan?

1:21:14>> Doughty.

1:21:16>> You got one.

1:21:17>> Woohoo.

1:21:18>> [laughter]

1:21:19>> You got one Bryan.

1:21:20>> He started two minutes ago.

1:21:21>> Got to let him get one up you know at

1:21:22least during the meeting.

1:21:23>> Ah god

1:21:25Eric's fast on the draw.

1:21:26>> Commissioner Chuchuruoni?

1:21:27>> Yes.

1:21:28>> Commissioner Doughty?

1:21:30>> Yes.

1:21:31>> Commissioner Stratton?

1:21:34>> Yes.

1:21:35>> Commissioner Turner?

1:21:36>> Yes.

1:21:37>> Give up got policy?

1:21:39>> So, Mr. Chairman

1:21:41um

1:21:42attached is the recommendations for

1:21:46uh golf course changes.

1:21:48Um

1:21:49these are

1:21:51uh

1:21:53these are our changes for the upcoming

1:21:542027

1:21:57um

1:21:58season.

1:21:59Uh so, there's a couple of policy

1:22:00changes. Uh we've been having some

1:22:02problems with people uh taking our

1:22:06buckets

1:22:08uh and golf balls from the golf course,

1:22:11from the driving range, and taking them

1:22:13home.

1:22:15Um we seem to lose uh good number of our

1:22:18baskets uh and and golf balls in that

1:22:22fashion, so we want to at least have

1:22:24something on record for

1:22:27uh that if that becomes a problem with

1:22:29an uh individual. And the same thing

1:22:32with our golf cart feet, our golf carts,

1:22:35and the key to our golf carts. Uh so,

1:22:38both of those two items, they are

1:22:40exactly the same in in regards to what

1:22:42we're looking to do. It's just uh the

1:22:45removal of those from the property um

1:22:48you know, particularly the baskets and

1:22:50the balls is theft, and then the key

1:22:52uh is another issue that

1:22:55you know, allows somebody to be able to

1:22:56take a cart anytime they want, and we're

1:22:58trying to

1:22:59uh minimize that functionality as well.

1:23:04Um on the fee side,

1:23:06we're looking to add a new season pass,

1:23:08which is a junior golfer.

1:23:10Um we currently

1:23:13uh it's for 7 days. So, we currently

1:23:16have a 5-day in our junior golfers.

1:23:21Some of them don't read the fine print,

1:23:23or their their parents and guardians

1:23:25don't read the fine print that it's a

1:23:265-day, and they come up on a Saturday

1:23:28and want to play on a Saturday. Um so,

1:23:31to streamline that, what we'd like to do

1:23:33is add a second, no different than we

1:23:34have for the majority of our other fees,

1:23:37other um season passes, which is a 5-day

1:23:41and a 7-day. Um and just add this 7-day

1:23:44in there

1:23:46um um, at an increased price point. Uh,

1:23:48that's

1:23:49uh,

1:23:50uh, you know, for weekend use where we

1:23:53get the majority of our a lot of our

1:23:55play as well as that time frame in the

1:24:00uh, on a Saturday and Sunday is what we

1:24:02would consider prime golf uh,

1:24:05golfing time. So, we wouldn't put any

1:24:08restrictions on it for after 12:00 or

1:24:12anything like that. It would be just a

1:24:13flat

1:24:15uh, item where we would just have that

1:24:17on there.

1:24:18We are looking to increase all of our

1:24:20season passes by $100,

1:24:23um, except for the junior weekday and

1:24:26the new junior 7-day.

1:24:29Increase our golf cart rentals by a

1:24:31dollar. Uh, so it'd be a dollar for nine

1:24:33and a dollar for 18. Um, it wouldn't be

1:24:37$2 for 18. It'd just be a dollar for

1:24:39each.

1:24:40Uh, increase green fees by a dollar

1:24:43across all structures.

1:24:45Um, increase the morning special that we

1:24:48have by $2, which reflects the dollar

1:24:51and the dollar.

1:24:52Um, so from 51 to 53.

1:24:55Change our outing tournament to

1:24:59um,

1:25:02change our outing tournament just based

1:25:04on the the increase in fees.

1:25:08Uh, leave all pricing structures in

1:25:10place, but remove the $5

1:25:12uh, per person pro shop credit offered

1:25:14for full service outings. Um, and then

1:25:18as required,

1:25:20uh, continue to allow the director of

1:25:22golf to recommend specials and limited

1:25:24fee changes that are time specific.

1:25:27These recommendations will be will be

1:25:29then be

1:25:30then required Department of Parks,

1:25:32Recreation, Cemetery Commissioner

1:25:34approval.

1:25:36Uh, attached is a glance competitive

1:25:39pricing comparison where Greenhill Golf

1:25:42Course stands with other courses

1:25:44uh, in the area.

1:25:47Um,

1:25:48we feel, at least based on what we're

1:25:51seeing here, uh, we are,

1:25:53you know,

1:25:55pretty much right in the middle is where

1:25:57I would consider us, um, where I would

1:26:00consider us where we should be. Um, and

1:26:02please note that these are 2026

1:26:05fees that we base this on. This is not

1:26:072027 fees.

1:26:14Mr. Chairman, I would ask for once if

1:26:16there's any questions, happy to take

1:26:17them, and then a motion to approve.

1:26:21>> I'll go with Erica Bryan. Any Any

1:26:23questions?

1:26:29>> Nothing on my end.

1:26:33>> Bryan?

1:26:35>> Thank you. Nothing on my end. Thank you.

1:26:37>> Natalie?

1:26:39>> I have a couple questions.

1:26:40>> You want trees.

1:26:41>> Yes, let's add some more trees in there.

1:26:44>> [snorts]

1:26:45>> How about some bushes? Blueberry bushes.

1:26:46Ooh, that would be good on the course.

1:26:48Um,

1:26:49through the chair to the commissioner,

1:26:51um,

1:26:52is there a weekend pass for adults?

1:26:55>> There is no weekend. It's either a

1:26:57five-day or a seven-day.

1:26:59>> Okay. I just want to make sure because I

1:27:01was going to say, um,

1:27:03could we do a two-day for a weekend, but

1:27:05that makes sense then.

1:27:07Um, and then the other thing is is these

1:27:10changes, um,

1:27:13when you

1:27:14when we're introducing new changes, is

1:27:17this something where you're posting

1:27:18signs,

1:27:20um, just so that new members are aware,

1:27:22or is it more posted on the internet?

1:27:24Um,

1:27:25>> So, what happens is is when it comes to

1:27:28the season passes, act all of this

1:27:30information, but specifically season

1:27:32passes, um, anybody who's interested in

1:27:35the season pass will get all of this

1:27:37information,

1:27:38>> Okay.

1:27:38>> um, upon them

1:27:40requesting it. So, we do all of our

1:27:43changes now in anticipation of

1:27:46January, uh, January 1,

1:27:48>> Mhm.

1:27:48>> uh, when we start offering our season

1:27:50passes for 2027.

1:27:52And at that point this would be this

1:27:54will all be online. It will all be

1:27:56available all be part of the package for

1:27:59for that.

1:28:03And then

1:28:06once that is done on there they'll be

1:28:10they're available both online and with

1:28:13our and at the golf course for if

1:28:15there's any information. So when you go

1:28:16online to go book a tee time you'll see

1:28:19what that is and you'll be able to do

1:28:21that and that all gets updated once this

1:28:23gets approved by the commission.

1:28:24>> Okay. And when they can like confirm

1:28:26their membership do they get like the

1:28:28rules and regulations? Okay. Perfect.

1:28:30>> And one of the things that we're working

1:28:31on right now on the rules and

1:28:33regulations is

1:28:36and we're doing it on the park side as

1:28:37well. In some cases we have them in

1:28:40different areas. Like we have a rules

1:28:42and regulations but then on the permit

1:28:44application there's a whole bunch of

1:28:45wording on there. So what we're going to

1:28:47do what we're doing now is going to

1:28:49consolidate all that stuff into one

1:28:51document. So like on the park side all

1:28:54of our rules and regulations, permit

1:28:56requirements, everything will be on one

1:28:57document. At the golf course all of our

1:29:00rules and regulations and everything

1:29:01else will be on one document. And so

1:29:03we're going to put all of that together.

1:29:05Um

1:29:06it's much easier for individuals to

1:29:09find. It will be much easier for them to

1:29:11understand. It will be much easier for

1:29:13them to sign off on when they sign their

1:29:16application for a season pass.

1:29:19So that way it's it's a little bit more

1:29:21consistent.

1:29:23Um

1:29:24I mean it's the information is all

1:29:25there. It's just

1:29:27in some cases in different documents. So

1:29:29we're going to streamline that into the

1:29:30one.

1:29:31>> Okay. Great. Thank you for that.

1:29:36>> I've got no comments. I don't even know

1:29:38what a golf club is so

1:29:40um if we have any motions to approve the

1:29:43rule changes and fee changes.

1:29:46>> I motion to approve the rule changes and

1:29:48fee changes for 2027.

1:29:52>> Second.

1:29:54>> Third.

1:29:56>> Quick draw McGraw over there.

1:29:59>> Commissioner Checherouni.

1:30:01>> Yes.

1:30:01>> Commissioner Daughtry.

1:30:04>> Yes.

1:30:05>> Commissioner Stratton.

1:30:10>> Yes.

1:30:10>> Commissioner Turner.

1:30:12>> Yes.

1:30:13>> Moving on to old business. Individual

1:30:15organization group who has placed an

1:30:18item on the agenda may speak for no more

1:30:19than 5 minutes in total

1:30:21on the item they have submitted. And we

1:30:23are back to the request of Park Spirit.

1:30:25I believe we have a sheet at the end of

1:30:27the

1:30:29agenda here with answers to Rob. If you

1:30:31want to kind of guide us through that,

1:30:32or

1:30:33>> So Yes, Mr. Chairman. So, the first

1:30:36items on there is the request.

1:30:39Um the second item on there is the

1:30:43memorandum from

1:30:45um our city solicitor.

1:30:48And then

1:30:50the other items on there are

1:30:53updated informational with

1:30:56um

1:30:58the approvals and acts and that kind of

1:31:01stuff. So,

1:31:03um that information is there based on

1:31:05what the law department supplied to me.

1:31:08Um I will

1:31:10say to you and anybody else um that

1:31:14we've had it for a little bit. We went

1:31:15into spring, we went into summer.

1:31:18I missed it on trying to

1:31:20get it back out. Um but everything is

1:31:23everything is here now with this

1:31:24document that the law department gave me

1:31:27to supply back.

1:31:28>> I guess this is I mean the middle has

1:31:30brought this up. If you guys want, do

1:31:31you want to say anything? Yeah, please.

1:31:33It's

1:31:39>> Rick Miller,

1:31:40uh

1:31:40board member of Park Spirit and Friends

1:31:42of Newton Hill.

1:31:43Um

1:31:45I'll try to be brief here.

1:31:47I just want to say

1:31:49quite frankly, I find

1:31:51the response from the law department.

1:31:54Disrespectful. Disrespectful to

1:31:56taxpayers. Disrespectful to this

1:31:59commission.

1:32:01Um

1:32:02These were

1:32:03the second time around with these

1:32:05questions and this second time was

1:32:08clearly spelled out what we were looking

1:32:10for.

1:32:13For example,

1:32:15providing missing copies of documents

1:32:17that were originally requested. Signed

1:32:19copy of the 61 decree.

1:32:22Provide a copy of the open court session

1:32:24referenced in the decree.

1:32:28And to get response from the department

1:32:31that says thoroughly addressed, no

1:32:33further information forthcoming and no

1:32:36no signed copy,

1:32:38no copy of the open court session.

1:32:41Then on one of the documents that's

1:32:43included,

1:32:45which is transferred to school

1:32:47department approved by city council,

1:32:50which is

1:32:51dated July of 1960.

1:32:55That was not the

1:32:57approve uh

1:32:59transfer to the school department. That

1:33:01was just the transfer to initiate the

1:33:04decree.

1:33:05It wasn't what we were looking for.

1:33:08So, as a tax paying citizen, I find this

1:33:12disrespectful all the way around. The

1:33:14city speaks of transparency and when

1:33:17citizens come forward and want just some

1:33:20simple documentation, that's all we're

1:33:22looking for.

1:33:24And we get

1:33:30information like that. Thoroughly

1:33:31addressed, no information forthcoming.

1:33:34Um if you're just going to fill a bunch

1:33:36of legal jar- jargon, then that's just

1:33:38disrespectful to everybody

1:33:41in this city.

1:33:42Um

1:33:44That's all I got to say. Thank you.

1:33:55>> Good evening. Carolyn Miller, 23 Germain

1:33:57Street, board member of Park Spirit.

1:34:00The chair and the commissioners, Park

1:34:01Spirit

1:34:02respectfully requested the commission

1:34:04support an independent legal and factual

1:34:06review of the legal opinions and

1:34:09supplemental responses provided by the

1:34:11city solicitor's office concerning

1:34:13Wister Parkland.

1:34:15This request is not based on a

1:34:16disagreement over legal conclusions

1:34:19alone. It is based on significant

1:34:21unanswered questions regarding the

1:34:23factual and legal foundation of those

1:34:25conclusions.

1:34:28For more than a year, Park Spirit has

1:34:29sought clarification and supporting

1:34:31authority for statements made in the

1:34:33city's legal opinion regarding

1:34:35Elm Park chapter 154 of the acts of

1:34:381882,

1:34:39chapter 121 of the acts of 1960,

1:34:43article 49 of the Massachusetts

1:34:45Constitution,

1:34:46and the 1960 through '61 proceedings

1:34:49that authorized the transfer of Parkland

1:34:51for Doherty High School.

1:34:54In response, many of our questions were

1:34:55either not answered directly,

1:34:58referred back to previous answers, or

1:35:00were met with conclusions unsupported by

1:35:04statutes, constitutional provisions,

1:35:06court decisions, legislative history, or

1:35:09documentary evidence.

1:35:11Of particular concern is the city's

1:35:13assertion that article 49 had no bearing

1:35:16on the 1961 proceedings. Article 49 was

1:35:20part of the Massachusetts Constitution

1:35:22at the time and remained in in effect

1:35:25until article 97 replaced it in 1972.

1:35:29Yet, no legal analysis or supporting

1:35:31authority has been provided to explain

1:35:33how the city reached that conclusion.

1:35:36Another concern is around the first

1:35:37statement made around Elm Park,

1:35:39encompassing 87 acres. The city

1:35:41solicitor stated the park is actually

1:35:4358.38

1:35:46acres.

1:35:46The number removed Doherty, the fire

1:35:48alarm building, now a bank, and Park Ave

1:35:51from the initial overall Parkland.

1:35:54The land the bank building sits on is

1:35:56leased to the bank. So, it's not sold to

1:35:58the bank. So, you don't take that out of

1:36:00the parkland. It's still parkland today.

1:36:02Again, no legal analysis or supporting

1:36:05authority

1:36:06was provided.

1:36:08We're also concerned by unresolved

1:36:10questions surrounding the 1961 court

1:36:12proceedings. Park Spirit has repeatedly

1:36:14requested documentation

1:36:16supporting the city's reliance on those

1:36:18proceedings, including questions

1:36:20regarding the absence of a signed

1:36:22decree, the absence of evidence of open

1:36:26court proceedings, and the lack of

1:36:28supporting court records.

1:36:30Rather than addressing these concerns

1:36:32directly, the city has declined to

1:36:34provide the requested explanation and

1:36:36documentation.

1:36:38These issues go well beyond a simple

1:36:40difference of legal opinion. They raise

1:36:42questions about whether the legal advice

1:36:45being relied upon by this commission is

1:36:48supported by a complete and verifiable

1:36:51factual record.

1:36:53Therefore, I respectfully request the

1:36:55commission seek an independent review by

1:36:57a qualified reviewer who is not

1:36:59affiliated with the city solicitor's

1:37:01office, and will provide a public record

1:37:04report identifying the statutes,

1:37:07constitutional provisions, court

1:37:09records, legislative acts, and

1:37:11documentary evidence supporting each

1:37:13conclusion reached.

1:37:15If the city's legal conclusions are

1:37:17correct, an independent review should

1:37:19confirm them.

1:37:21If important facts, records, or legal

1:37:23authorities were overlooked, the

1:37:25commission and the public deserve to

1:37:27know that as well.

1:37:29The protection of Worcester's public

1:37:30parkland is too important to rest on

1:37:33unanswered questions.

1:37:35The public deserves transparency,

1:37:37documentation, and confidence that all

1:37:39applicable laws were properly considered

1:37:42and followed.

1:37:43Thank you for your consideration.

1:37:49>> Um

1:37:50I'll start with Eric O'Brien. Do you

1:37:52have anything?

1:37:57>> Brian, why don't you go first?

1:38:10>> Brian, any comments or questions?

1:38:18>> Um, I would just reiterate exactly what,

1:38:21you know, what the people are saying. I

1:38:23can understand the frustration and I

1:38:24understand the all of the the details

1:38:26that have been presented. We're waiting

1:38:28we're still waiting for the report from

1:38:30from the city and um,

1:38:32I would love to be able to hear what

1:38:34they have to say and what the report is.

1:38:36We're still waiting.

1:38:38Thank you.

1:38:38>> Right.

1:38:41This was the report.

1:38:42>> Brian, you don't you didn't get the

1:38:43minutes, right, Brian?

1:38:44Or the agenda?

1:38:47>> No. No, I didn't.

1:38:48>> They're at the end of the agenda is the

1:38:50city's response to the questions.

1:38:52>> Oh, wow. Geez. Sorry. Yeah, I was

1:38:54getting a bounce back all week until

1:38:56today. So, I didn't have a chance.

1:38:58>> So, I I think they're they're their

1:39:00comment is

1:39:00>> Not to worry. I can chime in.

1:39:02>> Okay. Thanks, Aaron.

1:39:02>> Thank you.

1:39:04Yeah, sure sure shortly. Sorry, Brian.

1:39:06So,

1:39:07I I forgot that you were having the

1:39:09email issues. Um, so I think from my

1:39:11perspective on this, you know, I think

1:39:13that the you know, the Millers' request

1:39:15again makes a lot of sense to me. And

1:39:18part of this is the

1:39:20asking for the the source, the

1:39:22documentation. And you know, I my

1:39:25background is in research and and

1:39:28education and quite frankly,

1:39:31being asked to provide a source is a

1:39:32very common and expected

1:39:36item. So, so I do have concern with

1:39:38regard to the legal department saying

1:39:41this has been addressed in full and

1:39:43nothing else will be provided.

1:39:45If that's the case, but they are not

1:39:47actually providing

1:39:48the documentation,

1:39:50um, to me that is deeply concerning both

1:39:55in terms of

1:39:57either the lack of work and or research

1:40:00being done to address the issue

1:40:02um, or

1:40:04that the resource, um, the the the um,

1:40:09reference, rather, um, may not exist.

1:40:12Um, you know, if you can't produce it,

1:40:14then it it calls into question its

1:40:16existence, um, which which is deeply

1:40:18concerning to me. Um, you know, my hope

1:40:21would be my hope had been, quite

1:40:23frankly, um, given the previous, uh,

1:40:25issues around this that the the law

1:40:27department would have a rather robust

1:40:29and well-documented response. Um, and

1:40:32the response attached the agenda, in my

1:40:35opinion, is lacking with with regards to

1:40:38that. Um, and I would agree it is deeply

1:40:41concerning as a as a fellow tax payer

1:40:43payer that I would expect to see this

1:40:46documentation. Um, so

1:40:49from my perspective, I feel like this

1:40:51needs to

1:40:52do sort of, you know, one or two things.

1:40:54And, you know, one is either this needs

1:40:56to go back to law department, and quite

1:40:58frankly, it is not reasonable to tell

1:41:00them come back in 3 months. I really

1:41:03want to see this in a month. You know,

1:41:04they they've had plenty of time. If

1:41:06they've dragged their heels, that's on

1:41:08them, in my opinion. They need to move

1:41:10this up the the list and and get the

1:41:12documentation, um, to support those

1:41:14positions, or

1:41:16you know, someone from the law

1:41:17department can come to us and speak in

1:41:20person and reply. Um, you know, I think

1:41:22that, you know, sending it in writing is

1:41:24fine when that response is, uh, quite

1:41:27frankly, well-referenced and complete.

1:41:29And this one is not. Um, I am not

1:41:31satisfied with this response. Um, so I

1:41:34absolutely understand the Millers'

1:41:36perspective, too, of, you know, and this

1:41:38would be a question to the assistant

1:41:39commissioner,

1:41:40is there an ability to request an

1:41:43outside opinion for this? Um, you know,

1:41:45is there an avenue in which we can do

1:41:47that? Because, again, um,

1:41:49given given the delays, uh, that we have

1:41:52had with the law department, um, I'm,

1:41:56you know, my my faith in their swift and

1:42:00well-documented response is, uh,

1:42:03waning, to say the least.

1:42:09So, through the chair, um

1:42:16you can request something, but in the

1:42:18end the that final determination is not

1:42:21made by me or made by this commission.

1:42:24Uh the commission has no authority to

1:42:27um

1:42:28you know,

1:42:29require

1:42:31either another department or somebody

1:42:33else to do a audit or to do anything

1:42:37along those lines.

1:42:38Um my recommendation

1:42:41uh would be that

1:42:43this item be pushed to the city council

1:42:46um and go that route

1:42:49uh based on

1:42:51our side of it,

1:42:53uh

1:42:53right now to be very honest with you,

1:42:56we're sort of in the middle of

1:42:58a

1:43:00discussion point between

1:43:02an entity here and um

1:43:06a lot of department. I don't have that

1:43:07information. I'm not a lawyer. I never

1:43:10pretend to be a lawyer.

1:43:12Um so,

1:43:13uh to me it seems like th- those

1:43:16functionalities really need to go in a

1:43:18different

1:43:20in a different area, which in my eyes

1:43:22would be to the city council and have it

1:43:25done through that mechanism that can one

1:43:29ask for it to happen, two be able to

1:43:32work with the manager to fund it if

1:43:33that's the case or whatever.

1:43:42>> Natalie?

1:43:44>> So,

1:43:45um

1:43:48there's a lot to unpack with this

1:43:50situation.

1:43:52The first thing is is that

1:43:57overall

1:43:59with this memorandum

1:44:03my first thing is is it says that in

1:44:06chapter 154 of the Acts of 1882

1:44:09confirmed and adopted, not repealed. And

1:44:12this is the law that the voters put into

1:44:14effect, is still into effect since

1:44:17since 1884, right?

1:44:20So, this act is referencing

1:44:24the Massachusetts General Law

1:44:27that is on the books.

1:44:30And

1:44:33this means that

1:44:39the law that is on the books

1:44:44if I'm not mistaken, is

1:44:47the MGL 45 section 2 that says a town

1:44:52may elect board parks [snorts] and

1:44:54commissioners consisting of three to

1:44:56five persons and prescribe their terms

1:44:59in office. Or members of a town planning

1:45:02board or department of public works or

1:45:05road commission and may, if so

1:45:08authorized by vote, the town act as a

1:45:11parks commission therein.

1:45:13In a town

1:45:15which has not elected a board of parks

1:45:18commissioners or has not authorized a

1:45:20town planning board to so act, the

1:45:22selectmen shall be such parks

1:45:25commissions and have authority to

1:45:27approve or disapprove the acquisition of

1:45:30lands by eminent domain as set forth

1:45:34in section 79

1:45:37chapter two uh chapter 92 and shall have

1:45:42all other powers and duties of a parks

1:45:44commission.

1:45:46So,

1:45:48here's the thing.

1:45:50The way that the law is written is that

1:45:53we are supposed to have powers over the

1:45:56parks.

1:45:58And

1:46:00that is the simplest question that we've

1:46:03asked the law department. Is that true

1:46:05or is that not true?

1:46:08And if that is true in 1960

1:46:12was the Parks Commission the ones that

1:46:15released the land?

1:46:18I see the City Council here on this

1:46:20document, but I don't see the Parks

1:46:22Commission.

1:46:23This is problematic and

1:46:26it is definitely quite

1:46:30problematic because we sit here as

1:46:32commissioners. We are legally bound and

1:46:36held to whatever goes wrong with

1:46:39anything that deals with these parks as

1:46:42commissioners.

1:46:43>> I'm going to stop you for 1 second.

1:46:46Can we have a motion to extend this

1:46:48meeting by 10 minutes?

1:46:53>> 2:07

1:46:54>> a motion to extend by 10 minutes.

1:46:56>> I'll second it.

1:47:00>> Could we get a roll call on that?

1:47:05>> Commissioner Chetronie?

1:47:06>> Yes.

1:47:08>> Commissioner Daughtry?

1:47:10>> Yes.

1:47:11>> Commissioner Stratton?

1:47:13>> Yes.

1:47:14>> Commissioner Turner?

1:47:15>> Yes.

1:47:16>> Continue, Natalie, sorry.

1:47:18>> No problem.

1:47:19So, it then becomes

1:47:23if we as a commission get into any legal

1:47:28issues,

1:47:30our lawyer is the law department when it

1:47:33comes to that.

1:47:35So, I understand

1:47:38where

1:47:39the law department

1:47:42is busy,

1:47:43but at the end of the day, this is not a

1:47:46satisfactory

1:47:48answer to any of the simple questions

1:47:51that we've asked. And it is quite

1:47:54disrespectful

1:47:56as a lifetime resident and a taxpayer

1:48:00here

1:48:02to continually get this type of

1:48:04pushback.

1:48:06This does not

1:48:08it if all in all,

1:48:12we are Parks Commissioners and we can be

1:48:15sued just as city councilors can be sued

1:48:17for these issues.

1:48:19This is not a personal attack on the

1:48:23parks commission

1:48:25or at the commissioner himself, but this

1:48:29is definitely a legal term that needs to

1:48:34be

1:48:36properly vetted and spoken about. And

1:48:41this back and forth really does have to

1:48:45stop. You know, we're appointed here not

1:48:48to just sit here and and do the bidding

1:48:51here and there, but you know, city

1:48:53councilors can come in here

1:48:56and ask for things from the commission,

1:48:59but we can't get them to come in here

1:49:03and address this issue.

1:49:08It's problematic.

1:49:13>> If I may too, Natalie, I think one of

1:49:15the

1:49:16one of the areas that for me kind of

1:49:18comes up with this

1:49:20is, you know, I I and you know,

1:49:23I don't think anyone is making

1:49:25suggestion that, you know, oh, you know,

1:49:28we just built this brand new school,

1:49:29let's get rid of it or anything like

1:49:31that. Like that's not realistic, you

1:49:32know, none none of us would expect that.

1:49:34None of us would want that. Um but I

1:49:35think that there is concern that, you

1:49:37know, especially quite frankly recently

1:49:39we've been hearing too that, you know,

1:49:40burn code is going to need to be redone

1:49:42and it's going to be expensive. And the

1:49:45city, you know, has its, you know,

1:49:47financial, you know, limitations.

1:49:50So, one of the concerns that I certainly

1:49:53have is is there going to get continue

1:49:55to be a chipping away of parkland as,

1:49:58oh, this is easy land that we can go

1:50:00after

1:50:02to, you know, for when we don't want to

1:50:04spend money on schools and, you know,

1:50:06acquiring land for schools through

1:50:08either eminent domain or, you know, uh

1:50:11you know, other projects. So, I I think

1:50:13that

1:50:14you know, speaking back to sort of what

1:50:15Natalie was saying, I I think that

1:50:18it is reasonable for us to want the law

1:50:21department to provide an actual

1:50:23response. You know, quite frankly,

1:50:26you know, from my my perspective, this

1:50:28feels phoned in given the volume of time

1:50:31that they had. And I realize they are

1:50:32busy. They have a lot of other stuff

1:50:33going on. You know, it we're the second

1:50:36biggest city in New England. I'm sure

1:50:38they wish they had more staff. However,

1:50:41I think my first step would be I from my

1:50:43perspective, I'm willing to give them

1:50:45one more shot. Great. Either come here

1:50:48and talk to us or provide a more

1:50:51detailed response. And if they're not

1:50:53going to do that, then I think as a

1:50:55commission, you know, we're going to

1:50:56have to decide how we want to handle

1:50:58this. You know, for me

1:51:00I you know, I was hoping that we would

1:51:01get answers that quite frankly would

1:51:03settle this this you know, for this

1:51:04meeting and frankly for the last few

1:51:06meetings.

1:51:07But I I think that

1:51:10it would be really nice if we could

1:51:12you know, ask them to frankly provide us

1:51:16a

1:51:17true response to this.

1:51:19>> At the end of the day,

1:51:21through the chair, at the end of the day

1:51:25what do we need to do?

1:51:27File

1:51:30file a petition

1:51:32at the city council?

1:51:37>> I think that that was Rob's suggestion,

1:51:39sending it to the city council.

1:51:41>> Well, sending it to city council doesn't

1:51:45doesn't

1:51:46doesn't answer the law piece of it.

1:51:49It'll answer to the city council, but

1:51:53Do you understand what I mean?

1:51:56>> [snorts]

1:51:57>> We can send it to the city council, but

1:51:59at the end of the day

1:52:01if we send it to the city council,

1:52:03where's it going to die?

1:52:04Are we going to get it back?

1:52:11>> Carline?

1:52:13>> We we could take

1:52:15I'm sorry. I was going to say we could

1:52:16take a two-pronged approach to this,

1:52:18too. We could do both in my opinion. We

1:52:20could motion that, you know, not only

1:52:22send, you know, send a copy of this to

1:52:24city council asking them to direct the

1:52:27law department to provide us with a

1:52:29thorough and detailed legal explanation

1:52:31given their failure to do so at the

1:52:33time. We could send it to the law

1:52:35department, back to the law department

1:52:37asking them to say, "Hey, we're sending

1:52:39it to both. We'd like you to give us a

1:52:41real response."

1:52:42You know, sort of a, "Hey, we're sending

1:52:44a message to, you know, to mom and dad,

1:52:46but we're giving you the opportunity to

1:52:47talk to us first."

1:52:50>> Okay. Go ahead. One second. All right.

1:52:53>> Carolee Biller again, 23 Germaine

1:52:55Street. My key thing is 1882 was adopted

1:52:59in 1884. It empowered this commission to

1:53:02have the the responsibility and the

1:53:05authority to protect the parks and do

1:53:08what it needed to do to make sure they

1:53:09were protected forever as parkland.

1:53:11So, city council shouldn't have that

1:53:14much of a say in this. It's a parks

1:53:15commission issue even though you've been

1:53:17told

1:53:19incorrectly that you have no power. That

1:53:21they confirmed that 1882 has been in

1:53:24place forever.

1:53:25So, those powers are there and somehow

1:53:27they need to be brought back to the

1:53:28commission so we can get answers and

1:53:31make sure they're not going to take any

1:53:32more parkland and fix potentially some

1:53:35of the issues that have taken place and

1:53:37get them to

1:53:39correct what's gone on in the past so it

1:53:41doesn't happen again.

1:53:44>> So, through the chair, there are

1:53:45mechanisms to transfer parkland and

1:53:49for other purposes.

1:53:51Right? So, there are there are

1:53:52mechanisms in there in that are required

1:53:56um but can do that. Um so,

1:54:00whether or not that happened in 1960 or

1:54:02whenever um is

1:54:05is not anything that I have

1:54:06documentation on or

1:54:09or would be

1:54:11um or would you. Right? So, that would

1:54:13be

1:54:15you know, the law department, mass

1:54:17start, freedom of information act.

1:54:21I I know. I mean, it would something

1:54:22along those lines,

1:54:24um but

1:54:26there are mechanisms built in. We've

1:54:28done it for Worcester Technical High

1:54:30School. We've done it for others, so

1:54:33there are ways to to do that to be able

1:54:35to get that cleared up. Um

1:54:38and so

1:54:40again, my recommendation

1:54:42um is that

1:54:44this really should be going to either

1:54:47the city council in a petition or have a

1:54:51counselor put an order on or do

1:54:53something along those lines.

1:54:55Um

1:54:56or a

1:54:58FOA

1:54:59that would ask for that information.

1:55:02Um

1:55:03So, it I mean, it just seems like what

1:55:06what's happening here is

1:55:09you know, it it's

1:55:10we've gone through a bunch of this

1:55:11already with the law department and

1:55:13other issues regarding Dorothy and now

1:55:16we're sort of coming around the backside

1:55:18with it, too, and and I just think that

1:55:22it it should go where it needs to go,

1:55:23which is

1:55:24to the law department for that and let

1:55:26them come back with the information

1:55:28that's necessary because we do not I do

1:55:30not have that information to be able to

1:55:32supply.

1:55:34>> I agree. I agree.

1:55:36>> It's Carly Miller again. Just one note,

1:55:38the 1882 Act, the law that's there, does

1:55:41not allow any public park land to be

1:55:44put aside.

1:55:45And that's one of the issues that's

1:55:47there and all and and we've done over 6

1:55:49years worth of extensive um

1:55:51research on this. All the ones that were

1:55:53done in 1960

1:55:55did not they concealed the 1882. That's

1:55:58why it was never brought up. That's why

1:55:59things weren't stopped. And there's

1:56:01there's records in the Senate, the

1:56:03House, and the the Senate that actually

1:56:06show the 1961 was pulled back and forth

1:56:09from the governor back and asked not to

1:56:11go through with it, but it was pushed

1:56:13through. So, there's a lot of

1:56:14information here.

1:56:16My key point is we've been to this law

1:56:18department and we've asked them twice

1:56:20and they're giving us incorrect

1:56:22information, incomplete information. So,

1:56:24we're beyond that. So, somebody needs to

1:56:27kind of hold them accountable to provide

1:56:30the real,

1:56:32you know,

1:56:33documentation that's out there to show

1:56:35what's going on. Cuz technically, there

1:56:37is a bunch of missing stuff that's out

1:56:39there because it just wasn't done.

1:56:41But 1882 does not, and actually, I

1:56:43believe David Moore said that in one of

1:56:45the meetings in here. He's never seen a

1:56:47park surplus

1:56:48transaction at all. And why? It was

1:56:51illegal to do one. 1882 says you can't.

1:56:54So,

1:56:55just some pieces that are there.

1:56:58Eric,

1:56:59>> um I think that your two-pronged

1:57:02approach um worked well

1:57:05uh through the chair to Eric. I think

1:57:06that worked um that sounds like

1:57:10a way to get this ironed out

1:57:14respectfully

1:57:16um and include what Commissioner um

1:57:20Antonelli said is to

1:57:23um

1:57:25in that process, petition the counselor

1:57:29in petition a counselor, all the

1:57:32counselors, some of the counselors, one

1:57:34of the counselors,

1:57:35and um

1:57:37request that the law department give us

1:57:40more information. Quite frankly, I I

1:57:43think this document is insulting.

1:57:51>> So, I think from my perspective, the you

1:57:53know, I I

1:57:55you know, I I think that that might be

1:57:57our option. So, I I guess on my end um

1:58:01you know, I will probably first make a

1:58:04motion to

1:58:06um

1:58:07you know, ask the department to send

1:58:09this back to the law department asking

1:58:12them to provide a more robust

1:58:13explanation.

1:58:14Um you know, and to kindly provide the

1:58:18references supporting this.

1:58:25>> So, are you making a motion for that?

1:58:28>> Yes. I will make a motion to send this

1:58:30back to the law law department uh asking

1:58:34them to provide a more robust

1:58:36explanation and to provide their

1:58:39references.

1:58:42And you know, in in that, you know,

1:58:46I'll I'll leave it at that. So, that

1:58:48that's my motion. So, thank you.

1:58:50>> I'll second.

1:58:53>> Commissioner Checherunee?

1:58:54>> Yes.

1:58:55>> Commissioner Daughtry?

1:58:58>> Yes.

1:58:59>> Commissioner Stratton?

1:59:01>> Yes.

1:59:02>> Commissioner Turner?

1:59:03>> Yes.

1:59:04>> So, Eric, did you want to make a second?

1:59:06Okay.

1:59:07>> Yes. And and Rob, if, you know, kindly

1:59:10when when that is sent back to them, you

1:59:11know, just if you can kind of let them

1:59:13know again, you know, we are just we're

1:59:15looking for something a bit more robust.

1:59:16But, frankly, the the response that we

1:59:18received from them was not viewed as

1:59:20satisfactory. Um the the second motion

1:59:24that I'd like to make is that we send

1:59:27this to the city council asking them to

1:59:32also direct the law department to

1:59:35provide a robust

1:59:37uh response and explanation with

1:59:40references.

1:59:42>> I second that.

1:59:45>> Uh through the chair, that would need to

1:59:47come from the commission. That will not

1:59:48come from the administration.

1:59:51So, if the commission wants that, then

1:59:52you can approve that, but it need to

1:59:54come from somebody from this board to

1:59:57supply that.

1:59:58>> So, Eric, if you like to handle that.

2:00:03>> Uh yeah. So, I guess the question is uh

2:00:05Rob, would that be something that uh

2:00:08just, you know, write a write a petition

2:00:10and send it to the uh city council?

2:00:13>> With our signatures, I guess.

2:00:15>> Through the chair, it would be a uh if

2:00:18you go on the city clerk's calendar,

2:00:21there's a petition item there. You can

2:00:24if you fill out the petition and send it

2:00:25in that way.

2:00:27>> Okay. I will I will do some digging into

2:00:30that and uh I'm certain, you I can sort

2:00:32of you know come back if I have

2:00:33questions about that process.

2:00:36>> So we making a motion to keep this item

2:00:38on old business?

2:00:40>> I will make a motion to keep this on old

2:00:42business until we receive our updated

2:00:45response.

2:00:45>> I'll second it.

2:00:49Commissioner

2:00:50Commissioner Cetrone?

2:00:51>> Yes.

2:00:53>> Commissioner Doherty?

2:00:56>> Yes.

2:00:57>> Commissioner Stratton?

2:00:59>> Yes.

2:01:00>> Commissioner Turner?

2:01:01>> Yes.

2:01:02>> Moving on quickly for 2 minutes we have

2:01:04no new business to discuss on the

2:01:05agenda.

2:01:07And we have no table business to

2:01:09discuss.

2:01:10Anything else anyone wants to bring up

2:01:11quickly before we have a motion to

2:01:13adjourn?

2:01:13>> I motion to adjourn.

2:01:17>> Second.

2:01:23>> Commissioner Cetrone?

2:01:24>> Yes.

2:01:25>> Commissioner Doherty?

2:01:27>> Yes.

2:01:28>> Commissioner Stratton?

2:01:30>> Yes.

2:01:30>> Commissioner Turner?

2:01:31>> Yes.

2:01:32>> Meeting adjourned.

2:01:34>> Woo! Right on time.

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