2026-08-25 - Public Works and Traffic and Parking Joint Committee

0:05Good evening everybody. Uh welcome to

0:07our joint meeting this evening. Um

0:12public works subcommittee

0:14and

0:16traffic and parking subcommittee.

0:18Um I'll introduce my members of my

0:21committee and then I'll turn it over to

0:24um Council Rivera for his committee. Uh

0:29to my right is councelor District 3

0:31council John Fazolo and uh at large

0:35counselor Satcha Mitra should be here at

0:39any moment.

0:42I'll turn it over to councelor Rivera.

0:44>> Oh, thank you. Um I have we have uh

0:47District 2 councelor Robert Vad online.

0:49I got District 4 city councelor Louis

0:51O'A here. We also have online with us uh

0:55um assistant director Todd Karine. Um,

0:58Department of Transition Mobility, uh,

1:00Commissioner, uh, um, Stephen Raleigh

1:03and also Frank Marini, Marinichio, Apex

1:07Company. Did I say it right? Marinacio.

1:11Thank you. No problem. Close enough. All

1:13right.

1:14>> And from here we have Commissioner of

1:17Public Works, Commissioner Wessling, and

1:19Assistant Commissioner J. Melo. Thank

1:22you. Um,

1:26yeah.

1:29Approval of the minutes.

1:32Order that the city council standing

1:34committee of public works hereby

1:35approves the minutes of the public works

1:36subcommittee on July 24th, 2026.

1:43>> Councilors Friso,

1:48>> yes.

1:50>> Mitra,

1:51>> yes.

1:52>> And chairperson, councelor econom.

1:54>> Yes. Also approve amendments for traffic

1:57and parking. Um, city council standing

1:59committee of traffic and parking hereby

2:01approves a minutes of traffic and

2:02parking committee meeting of August

2:0419th, 2026.

2:06Roll call.

2:07>> Councilors Bada.

2:09>> Yes.

2:09>> Oh,

2:10>> yes. And chairperson councelor Rivera.

2:12>> Yes.

2:14>> Thank you, Mr. Clerk. if you would just

2:15go over the virtual attendee call-in

2:17information. And I don't know, maybe you

2:20can just just give a brief overview of

2:24how this

2:26setup is working for the the public just

2:29so they're aware of it.

2:31>> Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. So,

2:32item 1A, virtual attendee call

2:35information. Pursuant to chapter 20 of

2:36the acts of 2021, in order to ensure

2:39active public engagement, the city of

2:40Wester currently allows for both

2:41inperson and remote participation at all

2:44of its meetings. To partake in the

2:45meeting, you can either come in in

2:46person or you can join via Zoom. The

2:48Zoom link is listed on the agenda on the

2:50municipal calendar of the city's

2:51website. And there's also a phone number

2:53for this meeting. The meeting is

2:5616468287666

2:58and the access code tonight is

3:00161-599-2759.

3:04And thank you again counselor for the

3:06opportunity to kind of explain this. So

3:08right now both the public works

3:10committee and the traffic and parking

3:12committee have opened their own

3:14meetings. There are two agendas but it

3:16is for you know one general discussion.

3:18The item before you, item 3A, was

3:21referred to both traffic and parking and

3:24public works committee at the July 21st

3:26city council meeting um to allow for

3:28this kind of robust discussion that

3:30impacts both of the committees as it was

3:33determined by the city council. Um

3:36essentially, you are both running your

3:38own meetings simultaneously and at the

3:40same time, and it allows for this

3:42further discussion to take place. So,

3:45um, with that, you're welcome to kind of

3:47take that item and, um, hold any

3:49discussion. You would each make your own

3:52motion whether you'd like to hold the

3:53item or file the item, um, at your own

3:57discretion, so each committee can do

3:59what they want with the item ultimately

4:02once they're complete with it.

4:04>> Thank you, Mr. Clark.

4:05>> Thank you.

4:07Um,

4:09so do do each of us need to read the

4:12item in our own committees or is just

4:16one reading of the item?

4:18>> Mr. Chair, I would say one one reading

4:20would suffice. It's the same exact item.

4:22It just was referred to both committees.

4:24>> Just want to make sure. Item 3A, order

4:27of council Tony Econom requests the

4:29standing committee on public works meet

4:32jointly with the standing committee on

4:33traffic and parking for the purpose of

4:35reviewing [clears throat] and discussing

4:37the city's strategic pavement management

4:39plan. Further request Commissioner of

4:41Public Works and Commissioner of

4:42Transportation and Mobility attend the

4:44joint committee meeting to present the

4:47city's 2025 pavement management

4:51prepared by Apex Companies LLC

4:54and

4:56I couldn't tell you how to pronounce it.

4:58Um, CYVL.ai.

5:04That's how that's how I'll deal with

5:06that. So, thank you. Um is it who would

5:10like to open?

5:13Commissioner Westerling

5:15>> through the chairs. I want to thank both

5:18of the committees coming together this

5:20evening. I know that the counselor's

5:22time is uh very precious and uh this is

5:26this is an important discussion that

5:28we're having this evening because we

5:30want to have an informed policy decision

5:33as we move forward. I know that many of

5:36you, if not all of you, have been uh

5:39briefed on the pavement management plan

5:41that was uh that was produced last year

5:44by the Department of Transportation and

5:45Mobility. But we wanted to give you

5:48again an overview of that pavement

5:50management plan along with the uh

5:53potential pavement preservation

5:55techniques that are identified in that

5:56plan as well as the lessons learned from

5:59last year's pavement preservation work,

6:02namely the rubber chip. Uh so

6:05Commissioner Raleigh has put together a

6:07presentation that we're going to walk

6:08through talks about the again the

6:10pavement management program the

6:12techniques we're going to give you the

6:14good the bad and the ugly so that uh we

6:18can have again an informed policy

6:20decision with that.

6:24Yeah, thank you through the through the

6:25chair. Um AJ, we have a slideshow if

6:28you're able to to share that. And I'll

6:31echo Commissioner Westerling's uh words.

6:34I want to thank the committee for

6:35hosting this conversation.

6:38Um

6:44thank you counselor.

6:52So, we want to take the opportunity to

6:54review the pavement management program

6:56and talk about some of the more

6:57important aspects of that program.

7:00>> Uh AJ, oh, you're already there. You're

7:02ahead of me.

7:04One of the things you'll you'll see in

7:06our presentation and and we're going to

7:08actually go back and forth quite a bit

7:10here. I think we'll treat this like a

7:11fairly informal conversation because I

7:14know that we all have different um

7:16things we'd like to contribute to it.

7:18Um, but you'll see an emphasis in

7:21particular on pavement preservation. So,

7:23those are techniques that are intended

7:26to uh really extend the life of the

7:29roadway and get the maximum lifespan

7:31that you can out of a roadway in uh in

7:34good condition.

7:36As we do this, we want to walk through

7:38just a quick overview of the different

7:40types of treatments that the city is

7:42considering, both those that we've

7:45employed in recent years, uh, as well as

7:48some others that we haven't yet, but

7:50talk about some of the pros and cons of

7:52those and some of their characteristics

7:54and when they're appropriate. Uh and

7:57then really just to focus on, you know,

8:01to kind of wrap this up on three

8:02aspects, which is those pavement

8:04preservation techniques that I I

8:06mentioned, we're going to want to

8:07emphasize the importance of having

8:10advanced planning and flexibility as

8:13we're running uh a pavement management

8:15program. And then relying on what's

8:17known as the pavement condition index or

8:19PCI. You've pro you're probably familiar

8:21with that term. You'll see it a lot in

8:23this presentation. that is a

8:26standardized

8:28uh way of measuring the structural

8:31integrity and condition of roadway

8:33surfaces that's used across the nation.

8:36Next slide please.

8:40So the pavement management plan itself

8:43was officially released in January of of

8:4625. So uh about a year and a half ago,

8:49but we actually started working on that

8:51plan in uh late 2023, early 24. Uh, and

8:56it was a collaborative effort between

8:58DTM, who was a new department at that

8:59time, the Department of Public Works,

9:02and we worked with a consulting team

9:03that was led by Apex Companies, and and

9:05Frank is here um, representing Apex

9:08today and has a lot of great knowledge

9:10that he's uh, able to share with us um,

9:13and that went into the development of

9:15this plan.

9:17So just briefly when we use the term

9:19pavement management what we're really

9:20talking about is an intentional and

9:23systematic process of assessing the

9:26pavement condition of our roadways and

9:29then prioritizing

9:31how we apply everything from pres

9:34preservation treatments to maintenance

9:36to full rehabilitation of roadways in

9:39the way that's most costeffective and

9:41makes the best use of resources. So,

9:43what we're really trying to do is

9:44stretch our dollars as much as we can

9:46and keep as much of that roadway network

9:49in good usable condition.

9:53Next slide, please.

9:55So, you obviously aren't going to be

9:57able to pick out the details here, but

9:58just wanted to give you an overview of

10:00the tool that was built as this program

10:02was was developed. So this is a a

10:05GISbased

10:07um mapping system that has every block

10:10of roadway in the city, every block of

10:12public roadway. Um and the platform is

10:15available to DTM staff, DPW staff. We

10:19both regularly use it. The consultant um

10:22helps us with some of the updates as

10:24well. And as you can see, it provides

10:27information on the pavement condition

10:29for every block of public street in the

10:32city. And that's that's colorcoded. Um,

10:34so in this case, green means pavement

10:37condition is fantastic. It's between 90

10:40and 100. That's basically a street

10:42that's just been reconstructed or

10:45resurfaced within the last few years

10:46most likely. And then it works its way

10:48down to yellow, orange, and red are

10:50those streets that are uh that are

10:53reaching the point of failing. I do want

10:56to note this information is also

10:58available online to the public. So, one

11:00of the cool things about this tool is

11:01there's a a public interfacing version.

11:04The color scheme is going to be a little

11:05bit different because we converted it to

11:07meet accessibility standards and you

11:10can't really use reds and greens at the

11:11same time when you do that. But for you

11:14know the internal facing tool, we're

11:15still using the color scheme that you

11:17see here. Just wanted to explain that in

11:19case there's any confusion. So, in

11:21addition to having this map, we have all

11:24sorts of cool tools that are rolled up

11:26into it. We can generate reports

11:28automatically that give us a list of

11:30street segments by pavement condition,

11:33by council district, um by potential

11:37treatment types, um all sorts of things.

11:41Next slide, please.

11:43And then the other aspect is that you

11:46can click on any link, any uh block in

11:50the city and see what the conditions are

11:52for that. So, it'll show you the name of

11:54the street, where it's located, the

11:57roadway surface material, how long it

11:59is, the approximate width of the street,

12:02then of course, most importantly, the

12:04pavement condition.

12:08Any any questions so far?

12:12All righty. Next slide, please.

12:15when I refer to PCI or pavement

12:17condition index, this is the uh the

12:19table that outlines what that range is.

12:23So we again we start at 90 to 100 that

12:25represents good condition. Um and those

12:28are roadways that really don't require

12:29any sort of treatment at all. Not even

12:31routine maintenance at that point. They

12:33are essentially brand new or or close to

12:36brand new. Next category down about 80

12:39to 90. That's satisfactory condition.

12:42That's where we start looking at what we

12:44call routine maintenance and um

12:47assistant commissioner Melo is going to

12:49get into some of these options that

12:50we're using and considering using. Um

12:53but the idea here is that these are very

12:56cost-effective treatments at this point.

12:58So by spending just a little bit of

13:00money, you can greatly preserve the the

13:02length or the lifespan of roadways in

13:05this category.

13:07Next step down 65 to 80. Those are roads

13:09that are in fair condition.

13:12This is getting to the point where

13:13you're going to start maybe hearing some

13:15complaints from residents or people are

13:17going to start noticing that um you know

13:19the roadway can visibly noticing the

13:21roadway surface is deter deteriorating.

13:25Here we look at targeting them with

13:26preventative maintenance. So, these

13:28become more intensive treatments, but as

13:30you can see, looking at the typical

13:32costs, and I'll caveat that by saying

13:34these are pretty broad ranges here, but

13:37just to give you an idea of what the

13:39treatments cost, it's still

13:40significantly less expensive than full

13:43reconstruction of the roadway, which we

13:45need to do as as the roadways further

13:47degrade. And then finally, the last two

13:49categories, 50 to 65 and and 0 to 50,

13:52those are in poor or very poor uh

13:55condition. At this point, the roadway,

13:57you don't have any choice. You have to

13:59do major rehabilitation to the roadway.

14:01Um, which is obviously a much more

14:03intensive process and a much costlier

14:06process.

14:07>> Commissioner, excuse me. Um, real quick,

14:10I just ask a question. Either e either

14:13you or commissioner is looking at the

14:14answer. out of uh all the streets

14:17because I see you have it colorcoded and

14:19the whole um di diagram and everything.

14:23How many streets in the city of Whistler

14:25are we aware of are in the major

14:27rehabilitation area? Do you have a

14:30number? Do we have a number?

14:31>> Yeah, Mr. Chair, we do. We're actually

14:32we have a slide near the end that'll uh

14:34give us a a preview of that. So,

14:36>> do your thing.

14:40>> I'm going to go ahead and turn it over

14:41to Commissioner

14:42>> Malo.

14:43>> Thank you, Commissioner Ry. So uh AJ

14:46could we get the next slide please?

14:48Thank you. So this figure here shows the

14:51impact of pavement preservation on PCI

14:54rating for a road. So when a road is

14:56paved we give it a 98. That's a fresh

14:58brand new road. That's up all the way on

15:00the left top here. Then excellent. So

15:02over about the first 15 years or so 75%

15:05of the anticipated age of the roadway

15:08you see about a 40% quality uh decline.

15:11So that's where your cracks you're

15:13unraveling. you're starting some

15:14delamination things of the like. Um the

15:17second 40% quality drop uh occurs in a

15:20much shorter period of time. So it

15:21occurs in about 10% or so of the road's

15:24life. Um and that happens very rapidly.

15:26So the objective is to make it so that

15:29we never really let a road get below the

15:32fair line. Um and you can kind of see

15:34what would happen. It's a little bit

15:35higher than uh generally you can keep a

15:38road with the the spiky thing up at the

15:40top there, the shark fin if you will.

15:42Um, but the next slide, and we're not

15:44quite ready for that yet, but um, we'll

15:46kind of get in some some additional

15:48information on that. You can see here if

15:50we spend a dollar or two per, you know,

15:54uh, foot or lane mile on the road, how

15:57much further that goes when the road is

15:58in good condition versus when it

16:00degrades. As soon as we get below that

16:02fair point, the amount of money that we

16:04need to spend on the road goes up by a

16:05factor of 10, 15, or 20. So it's very

16:08important that we capture our roads in

16:10that upper band and keep them there. Uh

16:12AJ, next slide please.

16:15[clears throat]

16:19So uh this particular image here kind of

16:22gets at what I was just speaking about.

16:24So this shows uh the lifespan of a road

16:27if instead of allowing the road to

16:29degrade all the way to a point in which

16:31significant or major rehabilitation was

16:34required, we performed routine

16:36maintenance on the road. So you can kind

16:37of see the lines dip down to a circle

16:40and then they get kicked back up and

16:41they go down to a circle and get kicked

16:43back up. That represents regular routine

16:45or preventative maintenance on the road.

16:47So the road naturally declines in

16:49quality over time. A processes are

16:51performed to the road that is very

16:53cost-effective and restores that quality

16:55and we keep uh essentially I used the

16:58term keepyuppy before but essentially

17:00keep pushing the balloon that is the

17:02quality of the road up in the air. Um

17:04there is a very informative line on this

17:06figure here. It's a pink line. It says

17:07the complaint line. So that's that 65

17:09PSI that Commissioner Raleigh had spoke

17:11about. So really our objective is to

17:14constantly keep that the condition of

17:16the roads above that line. Ideally, if

17:18we're doing things holistically uh and

17:22efficiently, we can uh you can kind of

17:24see there's this line almost averages

17:26around 80, right? So a PCI 80 is a

17:30relative target for where we would like

17:33the majority of the roads in the city to

17:34fall. And with preventative and regular

17:36maintenance, we should be able to

17:38accomplish that. Uh, and now AJ, if you

17:40don't mind the next slide.

17:43This image right here is of a road that

17:45is PCI 80. Uh, so you can see the road

17:48is in generally great condition. Curb is

17:51nice and straight. There's plenty of

17:52reveal. There's still a nice crown on

17:54the roadway. Um, any sort of cracking in

17:56the road that has occurred has been

17:58cracksealed. There is some patching. Uh,

18:00so not a perfect road, not a brand new

18:03road, but definitely a very high quality

18:05road that will give you a nice ride and

18:07won't be jarring your car. So that's

18:08that's what an 80 represents. And with

18:11prop or regular application of

18:13preventative maintenance, this is what

18:15we should be able to achieve. Uh, AJ,

18:17next slide, please.

18:20So this particular slide is informative

18:23as to what happens if you perform

18:25pavement preservation processes and what

18:27what happens if you don't. So these uh

18:31particular roads, if you see there's

18:32actually a joint that kind of straddles

18:34the right side of that yellow line. The

18:37that's actually the town line in between

18:38these two municipalities. So these two

18:41municipalities are in Connecticut. So

18:43you know regionally local and in 2004

18:46they teamed up and performed a 2-in mill

18:48and overlay. So the whole road received

18:50the same process in 2004.

18:53In 2010, community on the right

18:56performed a crack seal in conventional

18:58micro. Um, so it's, you know, the black

19:01lines we saw in the last picture plus a

19:03thin uh lift of a cementous material

19:05over the road to reestablish the riding

19:07surface.

19:09Community on the left decided not to

19:11perform that treatment. So this picture

19:13was taken eight years following the

19:15crack seal and conventional micro and

19:17you can see the impact of pavement

19:19preservation versus not. So the roadway

19:22on the right hand side still in great

19:25condition after eight years. Maybe some

19:26minor cracking that you can kind of see

19:28along the road, but nothing that's

19:30anything deeper than superficial or

19:32impacting the actual structural uh

19:35integrity of the road. the road on the

19:37lefth hand side, that road is is fairly

19:39blown out and now that has reached the

19:41the point that we need either minor or

19:43major rehabilitation and the dollars

19:45spent per lane mile on that road are a

19:48factor of 10 if not higher than the road

19:50on the right. So this is very

19:53illustrative as to you know the the

19:55value and importance of pavement

19:57preservation. Mr. Podle, next slide,

19:59please.

20:02>> Yeah, and Mr. Mr. Chair, I'm going to

20:03jump in for just one slide here before I

20:05hand it back over to Assistant

20:07Commissioner Melo. Um, so I think the

20:09last slide, you know, depicted one of

20:11the big advantages of a pavement

20:12management program that has these

20:14varying levels of treatments, which is

20:16that you're keeping your road in

20:18acceptable condition for a much longer

20:20time. So instead of uh instead of

20:22drivers suffering with the roadway on

20:24the left where it was degraded and

20:27that's not going to get replaced for

20:29some time because the community has to

20:31find the the money necessary to do it.

20:33They're dealing with a roadway in very

20:35poor condition for a long time. Through

20:37the pavement preservation, the community

20:38on the right was able to keep that

20:40roadway in a relatively good condition

20:43over the longer term. So that's one of

20:45the key benefits of a pavement

20:46management program. The other one is

20:49frankly financial. Um, and that's

20:51because what we're doing in a pavement

20:53management program is we're spending the

20:55available resources as strategically as

20:57possible. So these these two tables are

20:59actually out of the pavement management

21:02uh plan itself.

21:04When that plan um it was released in

21:072025, but we actually started working on

21:09it in 2023. So in 2023, it estimated

21:12that the total backlog of of

21:16street

21:18um resurfacing and maintenance work at

21:20that time was $288 million. Now that's

21:23sort of a fictitious number, right? No

21:25community can ever go out and fix all

21:26the streets at once, but it's helpful in

21:29helping people, I think, understand the

21:31magnitude of the challenge that we're

21:33facing here. And it's a a challenge that

21:35communities all across the country face.

21:38um I think made worse here because of

21:40some of the winter um maintenance

21:43impacts that that we bear and that the

21:45roads suffer from. So, it's a

21:48significant issue. On the left was is a

21:51graph showing what happens if you don't

21:54really have a pavement management

21:55program in place and you're doing what

21:58most communities before they have a

21:59pavement management program do, which is

22:02you're just trying to fix those worst

22:04roads as you get money available to do

22:06it.

22:07Um, at the time we did the full scan of

22:10the street network, our average PCI uh

22:14was rated at 69.6.

22:17Um, and you can see in that table on the

22:19left. If we followed that approach at

22:22that time, if we wanted to just maintain

22:25the streets at the level they were,

22:27which that's a little bit lower than

22:29we'd like to see on a citywide basis, we

22:31were looking at about $19.4 million per

22:35year. So each and every year spending

22:36$19.4 million um on the the pavement

22:41management program.

22:44Just a a reminder that's in 2023.

22:47There's been, you know, considerable

22:48inflation since then, but more so than

22:51just inflation, we're seeing the cost of

22:53this type of work increasing at a faster

22:56rate. So in talking with with Frank,

22:58some of the data both regionally and

23:00nationally is showing that these costs

23:04are probably in the order of 30% higher

23:06now just in that 3 to four year period.

23:10So if we wanted to using that approach

23:12at the time, if we wanted to um and I

23:15should point out $19.4 million is more

23:17than the city has ever had available to

23:20put into our street resurfacing program

23:22historically. I think there was one year

23:24where we came close to finding the those

23:26kinds of resources as a a one-year

23:29spend, but at the point this plan was

23:31developed, um, you know, we were

23:33typically down in that 12 to$13 million

23:36range. So, you can see if you're

23:38spending 12 or $13 million and you're

23:40spending that amount of money, that's

23:42that's the wrong line. That line falls

23:44off pretty quickly. And in a fairly

23:46short period of time, this was

23:47forecasting that we were going to see

23:49our PCI drop to somewhere around 50. So

23:52that's that's a bad outcome.

23:54Uh the graph on the right is

23:58taking the pavement management plan as

24:01proposed which included a heavy emphasis

24:03in these pavement preservation

24:05techniques

24:07um and then projecting that out forward

24:10over a similar uh time span. So what

24:12that showed is that for the amount we

24:15had been spending historically, we could

24:17keep the PCI at about about the same

24:20level if we spent that amount every

24:23single year um and constructed that

24:25amount of work every year. It also

24:29brings into range the possibility of

24:31actually improving our our street

24:32system. I don't think any of us are

24:34happy with the the PCI condition of the

24:36the street network. It's you know we

24:39want to see that improved over where it

24:40is. So, a pavement management program

24:44starts to make that a possibility, a

24:45real a real possibility. So, um at that

24:48time, somewhere around $16 million

24:51following the pavement management um

24:53prescribed approach was forecast to

24:55increase um the PCI somewhere up closer

24:58to 80. So that's getting close to the

25:00point that that Jay mentioned is um you

25:03know that's a really high level target

25:06for a citywide measure that that in

25:10general you find the public's going to

25:11be quite satisfied with. At the time

25:14that was looking at a $16 million

25:16investment a year, you know, now that's

25:18probably somewhere around a $20 million

25:20investment a year just to kind of

25:21ballpark that.

25:26>> Thank you, Commissioner Raleigh. Uh AJ,

25:28if you wouldn't mind. Next slide,

25:29please.

25:31So, uh, what we're going to go into now

25:33is kind of some of the more finer

25:35details or fine details, I should say,

25:37over, uh, or concerning these various

25:39maintenance, uh, options. I apologize in

25:42advance if I bore you folks. So, uh,

25:45these three things right here are what

25:47we consider our primary options for

25:49routine maintenance. Uh, crack seal, I

25:51think this is one everyone is familiar

25:52with. Those are the big squiggly lines

25:54down the road. We take a rubber modified

25:57product uh an asphalt liquid product and

26:00inject it into cracks. And what that

26:01does is it prevents water from intruding

26:03into the crack and it prevents the

26:04freeze thaw cycle from uh further

26:06degrading the roadway. This is generally

26:08the first treatment process done on any

26:11road. We perform this on all roads uh at

26:15age five. So as soon as a road hits five

26:17years, it's automatically on this list.

26:18We go out and we do this process because

26:20it's generally as the industry has found

26:22when that needs to be performed.

26:24Fog seal uh is a process in which um

26:29excuse me as I try to make this painful.

26:32Um a liquid is applied to a roadway

26:35which restores some of the asphaltic

26:37proteins um in the road. So essentially

26:40as you see a road uh go from black to

26:43gray over time those are different

26:45molecules in the asphalt degrading and

26:47this process adds those back into the

26:49roadway and essentially rejuvenates it.

26:52Um as uh Commissioner Westerling had

26:55mentioned uh we're going to talk about

26:57the good and the bad of these processes.

26:58We don't want to leave anything uh not

27:00uncovered. This particular process we

27:02have shied away from due to the uh

27:04application involved with it. Uh so this

27:07generally needs a rather long time to

27:09set up and can leave the road uh tacky.

27:12So we have generally avoided this

27:14process in the city due to the impact

27:16that it would have on mobility. Um and

27:18then the third process we have here is

27:21uh permanent patching. So this is when

27:23we get uh you know something that's like

27:25a significant pothole, a rather large

27:27crack or any sort of defect that really

27:29needs to be cut out and removed from the

27:30road. We go all the way down to the base

27:33pavement course, dig that out and put a

27:34patch in. Um the only issue with

27:37patching anything, right, is you've now

27:38compromised the surface of the asphalt.

27:40So no matter how we seal that, it's

27:42never going to be 100%.

27:46moving into preventative maintenance.

27:47Um, so these are the things that we like

27:49to perform on a road to to play that,

27:52you know, keep the balloon up game, if

27:53you will, where we're keeping our roads

27:55above 65 in that complaint line, trying

27:57to keep them around 80. Uh, so the first

27:59on here is rubber chip seal. Uh, so this

28:02is an application of a liquid asphalt uh

28:05with stone over that and then the stone

28:07is uh worked into the asphalt. Um as we

28:10have observed over the last uh treatment

28:13of this um there are issues with this

28:16well can be issues with this treatment

28:17as well namely the accumulation of loose

28:20aggregate

28:22um this particular treatment is probably

28:25the most cost effective in this whole

28:28menu of options here. So uh recognizing

28:32the significant issues that we faced

28:34with this process over the last season,

28:36DPW, DTM, our consultant and our

28:39industry uh vendor partners are working

28:42to develop our medial plans as to how to

28:45go back and approach this again in

28:47future years u solely based the value um

28:51this provides to the city.

28:52Microsurfacing is another option

28:54available. Um microsurfacing and bonded

28:57wearing course are very similar

28:59processes. So

29:00>> if I could interrupt just a moment.

29:02>> Council Frisa has a question.

29:06>> I apologize through you Mr. Chairman on

29:08this on we're talking long patch

29:11program.

29:11>> Um so this would be slide 12 councelor

29:15permanent patch long and sight specific.

29:19>> Okay. I had a question on the line

29:21permanent long patch. Should I

29:23>> Yeah, go ahead.

29:24>> Ask it. Um

29:27at our last traffic and parking meeting

29:30I attended um many residents on uh Lake

29:34AB came out and spoke on um the manhole

29:40covers sinking

29:42and

29:44heavy truck traffic uh when it hits it

29:47that makes you know the uh the uh noise

29:52and the sound much more alarming. in the

29:55long patch pro program when that is you

29:59know an example of a a manhole cover

30:02sinking do we does that is that

30:06addressed in that program

30:07>> so prior to performing any of these

30:09pavement processes whether it's chip

30:11seal crack seal um long patching what

30:14we'll do is we'll perform immedial work

30:16to the localized pavement so if there's

30:19sunken gate boxes or manhole covers

30:21those are addressed if there's cracking

30:23those that's addressed if there's an

30:24underlying issue that's addressed

30:26because if we don't essentially we're

30:28just painting over an issue. So if there

30:30is something like a sinking manhole

30:33that's going to be in the area we would

30:34look to reset that in concrete.

30:36>> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.

30:38Thank you Mr. Chairman.

30:43>> Thank you. So uh microsurfacing and uh

30:46bonded wearing course. So these are very

30:49similar processes. Um both uh in essence

30:52restore the riding surface to the road

30:54by applying a thin layer of either an

30:58asphalt uh mixture in the the uh case of

31:01ultra thin bonding c uh wearing course

31:03or for microsurfacing a cementous based

31:05mixture. Um these are really great at

31:08providing a nice smooth road surface. Um

31:11so if you look at the surface of a ultra

31:13thin bonded wearing course treated road

31:14or a microsurface road it looks very

31:17smooth. The counter to that is that

31:21these treatments are applied very thin.

31:24So under an inch um and because of such

31:28they're prone to surface cracking. Now

31:30both of these processes [clears throat]

31:33include placing a membrane uh under the

31:39[clears throat] uh the surface

31:40treatment. Right? So that's going to

31:41prevent intrusion from water uh through

31:44the surface cracks into the underlying

31:46pavement. So despite the fact that you

31:48do see surface cracking with these

31:50processes, the underlying asphalt has

31:52been um treated and is preserved. But

31:58you know, one of the common uh bits of

32:01feedback that we are received from

32:02municipalities that engage in

32:04microservicing and bonded wearing

32:05courses, hey, you know, this is already

32:08starting to crack after a year or two,

32:09folks. And it's like, well, yes, that is

32:11what is going to happen with that

32:12material. However, the underlying

32:14asphalt is not compromised, nor is the

32:16ride quality. And those cracks can be

32:18addressed by crack sealing as well. Uh,

32:20cape seal is actually a combination

32:23process. So, this particular process is

32:25a rubberized chip seal followed by a

32:27microsurface.

32:28Um, as you could imagine, when you

32:31combine two treatment processes like

32:33this, the cost goes up. So as much as

32:35possible u DTM DPW and our consultants

32:38try to find single application processes

32:41and try to stay away from things like

32:42cape seal which will drive up the cost.

32:47Let's see next slide Mr. Podle. Thank

32:50you. Um [clears throat] so now we're

32:52getting into minor rehab. Um, and these

32:54are the more intensive things that are

32:55really going to take a roadway and

32:58reduce its ability to function as a mode

33:01of transportation and mobility for an

33:02extended period of time. Additionally,

33:05these are much more cost effect uh

33:07costly processes. Right? So, both in

33:09terms of impact to the community and

33:11impact to our budget, it's um a focus of

33:15ours to stay away from letting roads get

33:16to this level so we do not have to apply

33:19these processes. Unfortunately, that is

33:21not, you know, we don't live in a world

33:23where we can stay away from them, so

33:24they are still used in the city. Uh, hot

33:26inplace recycling is an option that has

33:29been utilized in the past. Um, and this

33:31process essentially scarifies the road,

33:34heats it up, and then you take that

33:36recycled material and replace it on the

33:38road. Um, this application, in the

33:41opinion of DPW, I

33:43>> I don't want to interrupt. Yes. Um, do

33:45you prefer if we have questions of that,

33:47do you prefer wait till you're done or

33:50interrupt because we don't want to

33:51interrupt.

33:52>> Council, you guys can feel free to

33:53interrupt.

33:54>> All right, councelor O'Hara has a couple

33:56questions for you. So, thank you, Mr.

33:58Chairman. Sorry, this is two

34:00departments, so I just wanted to make

34:01sure two committees wasn't sure if there

34:03you go and then we come after. But thank

34:04you. Thank you, Council Rivera. Um, just

34:06to circle back real quick on the on the

34:08rubber uh chip seal, microsurfing and

34:11cape seal. Um,

34:14did you mention that

34:17obviously there were some issues with

34:18the with the uh the chip seal? Did you

34:21mention that you guys were that you were

34:24looking into better ways? Uh, in my you

34:28explained it and what were some of the

34:30main major issues with it?

34:32>> Yeah, so I I kind of left it at about a

34:3410,000 foot and I I mentioned that we're

34:36looking at remedial action as kind of a

34:38a partnership, but I can delve a little

34:40bit further into that. So what we found

34:43um through our forensics to be the

34:45primary issue experienced with chip seal

34:47was the accumulation of [clears throat]

34:50excess chip. Um generally in other

34:54communities this isn't as great of an

34:56issue for a number of reasons. Um, the

34:59two biggest ones that stuck out here

35:01were the grade of our streets because we

35:03have significantly steeper slopes than

35:05most other communities and the

35:08volume and extent of street parking. So,

35:12when we performed

35:14uh post application sweepings of these,

35:19the efficiency of that was greatly

35:21reduced by a number of cars parked on

35:23the roadway. um which was then

35:25exacerbated during the winter when cars

35:28are off the roadway um due to threat of

35:31being uh towed during plowing. And at

35:34that point, say you know, you have 20%

35:37of the roadway which might not have been

35:38adequately swept due to parked vehicles.

35:41Well, all that chip that was accumulated

35:43in that which may have been in a

35:45concentrated pile that could have been

35:47easily swept up is now in a concentrated

35:49pile that is easily cast onto everyone's

35:51lawn. Um so we've found that um that

35:57particular bit of the process can be

35:59much better addressed.

36:01Additionally, we're looking at some

36:03items that involve temperature

36:05application. So what we have found was

36:09especially around uh steeper parts of

36:12the roadway, there was some shoving of

36:13the material. And when we went back and

36:16looked at the time of year at which this

36:18was performed, it was particularly hot

36:20like uh approaching 90 or hotter some

36:23days. Um and that actually can go ahead

36:26and have a detrimental effect on the

36:28application of the other way in so much

36:30as it doesn't allow the material to

36:32adequately set up. So um we're in

36:36combination the the four parties

36:37involved here. We're looking at ways to

36:39modify our specifications to account for

36:42those items.

36:43>> Thank you. um to the chair. Um I know

36:46councelor Conwell had mentioned that

36:48people were finding it in in in their

36:49homes and their beds. Um I remember

36:52going down one of the streets in my

36:53district and it looked really nice right

36:56from a distance. Uh but to your point on

36:59the towards the sidewalks there was

37:00those issues where it was really loose.

37:03Um is it more of the installation

37:06process versus coming back and doing the

37:08sweep? Is it more of the installation

37:10process to make sure it is settled in

37:12and and set down much better versus

37:16coming back and sweeping up the loose

37:18ends versus on the edge. And when I mean

37:20on the edge is probably about could be

37:22about a foot out from the sidewalk where

37:25I'm guessing maybe laying it down a

37:28little bit better or what it what what

37:30was the issues? Why couldn't that be

37:31done the same way it is in the middle of

37:33the road? Why isn't it from sidewalk to

37:36sidewalk as smooth as it can be and then

37:38come back around and get the loose

37:40particles?

37:41>> Yep. So there are some limitations for

37:44how close these machines can get, right?

37:46So they're not going to rub right up

37:47against the curb, but they will get very

37:49close, you know, within inches. Um, but

37:51again, most of that accumulation of

37:53material is really due to the post

37:55application sweeping. Um, more material

37:58is cast onto the road during application

38:01than will lie on the road following

38:03compaction. And that's simply due to the

38:05fact that the contractor wants to ensure

38:07that there's a a full application of

38:08stone. In this particular case, it is

38:13the majority opinion of the group that

38:16the cleanup work just wasn't sufficient

38:19and most likely due to, you know, as

38:21we've experienced with snow plowing

38:23issues with parked cars. It is um it

38:26does represent some fair challenges for

38:27us. So, we're working to establish

38:31better guidelines for how we perform

38:32these post application processes.

38:35>> Okay. Lastly, through the chair real

38:36quick, um, you know, there are these

38:39three options or four, but it seems like

38:42the the Cape Seal, um, as it says it's a

38:46it's a mixture of it's it's actually

38:49could be both in a way. Would it just

38:52make more sense? I know costwise, but

38:55seeing that there are some issues with

38:57both of them, would it just make sense

38:58just to go with the cape sale versus

39:02one and then if there's issues, we got

39:04to go back anyways. So to the chair to

39:06the

39:07>> Yep. Thank you, counselor. So um DPW and

39:11DTM are investigating the use of cave

39:13seal this year. So we do have a pilot

39:15program that has gone out to bid that

39:16we'll be uh performing throughout the

39:18city. Um, you know, the big

39:21consideration there is you kind of

39:22nailed it as cost. Um, I think if we had

39:26our way about it, u we would mill and

39:28overlay everything, right? And we

39:29perform none of these pavement treatment

39:31processes because that's going to really

39:33get you a higher quality road.

39:35Unfortunately, just the reality of

39:36funding kind of makes that uh, you know,

39:39a non-starter. Um

39:42there are certain areas where perhaps a

39:45cap seal is a more appropriate treatment

39:46process than a chip seal. Um but

39:50generally in terms of budget, we

39:52wouldn't be able to outright remove

39:54chips seal as a process and go over to

39:56cape seal. It's about a factor of two to

39:58three times more expensive to cape seal

40:00rather than chip seal. So um the cost

40:03does add up. That being said, um you

40:05know, there are potentially some

40:06applications where it's better, say a

40:08higher volume roadway or something with

40:10a steeper grade and know the things that

40:13we're looking at kind of expanding this.

40:15Um so, one of the items before I go back

40:18into the nitty-gritty here with these um

40:21treatment processes that Frank actually

40:23noted when we were speaking earlier is

40:26our pavement management program is

40:28actually the second largest in New

40:30England. I mean, that's obviously by

40:32virtue of the fact that we're the second

40:33largest municipality in New England, but

40:36it is the second largest in New England

40:38outside of Boston. So, um, getting a

40:41program like this to operate at 100%

40:44efficiency and output takes some time

40:47and some growing pains as we've

40:48experienced with the chip seal. But I uh

40:51speaking for the team here, uh you know,

40:55we're all very committed to make sure

40:57this works because this is the tool that

40:58we need to to bring the city's payment

41:00up to where it needs to be.

41:02>> Um not to continue boring you

41:04>> through the chair, if I could just just

41:06add a couple things. So, um I agree,

41:09councelor Roa sort of highlighted the

41:11the big why don't you do that, which is

41:14it costs more. So cape seal costs

41:17probably somewhere around twice the

41:19price of of rubber chip seal. It's still

41:22a significant improvement, you know,

41:24following these four tiers and using

41:26preventative maintenance where it makes

41:28sense as opposed to waiting for

41:29everything to degrade. So it's still

41:31better than that,

41:32>> but you're not stretching your dollar as

41:34as far as you were previously, which

41:35means that we're treating

41:38uh less mileage roadway for the same

41:39same amount of money. Um the second

41:42thing and and Frank just reminded me of

41:44this is that um with a cape seal once um

41:50once you've cape sealed the street

41:53you're limiting the treatments that you

41:54can then apply the next time around. So

41:57that means you have to go to a more

41:58expensive treatment like a millin

42:00overlay or something like that when it

42:02eventually gets to the point where you

42:03need to to do the next thing. Now, all

42:06roadways are going to eventually get

42:07there, but you get there the next step

42:10with a cape seal. So, that's something

42:11to keep in mind as well.

42:13>> Yeah. So, really that's any of those

42:16processes. So, we say with a cape seal.

42:18So, it's cape seal microsurface

42:21ultra thin bonded course kind of um and

42:24that's due to the material, right? So,

42:26with the cape seal and the microsurface,

42:28it's essentially a cement blend you're

42:30putting on the top of the road that's

42:32not going to want asphalt to stick to

42:33it. So we can't go ahead and overlay

42:35that afterward. We either have to

42:36continue to microsurface that once it's

42:38been microsurfaced or we have to mill

42:40off the microsurfacing and then apply

42:42another treatment.

42:44>> May I chair?

42:46>> If I may

42:49um just to commissioner Melo I just had

42:51a question about the the you know

42:52understanding that the chip and seal and

42:54that you know there's been material is

42:57there any concern that the loose

43:00material from chip and seal would impact

43:03are um you know storm water runoff and

43:06and catch basins and and is is it would

43:10it be is there any consideration to that

43:12and could that be like an addition an

43:15additional

43:17cost potentially like just 2DW in

43:20general? So, I was just curious if if is

43:22there any because I'd like to see us

43:24move away from the chip seal just

43:26because it seems like it's a it's a real

43:28challenge to to clean up afterwards and

43:31I I also worry, you know, what how

43:33that's going to impact our storm water

43:36infrastructure as well. Is there any

43:38concern about chip seals getting into,

43:42you know, our our catch basins?

43:44>> Thank you, counselor. So,

43:45[clears throat] um there's a few parts

43:47to this. During the actual application,

43:50the vendor lays down over the catch

43:52basins a a large piece of heavy metal,

43:55right? So the chip uh during its

43:58application does not make it into the

43:59drainage system because of that. Um the

44:02[clears throat] first sweeping of the

44:04chips roads is done immediately. So it's

44:07like the first day or something. So

44:09that's capturing most of the heavy

44:10material. And then [clears throat] over

44:13time um you know at a week and then a

44:15month um the volume of material that's

44:17captured during subsequent sweepings is

44:20considerably less. Um

44:23with respect to the catch basin um I'm

44:28sure

44:29>> no not to be flippant but essentially

44:31the purpose of the catch basin is to

44:33catch things like

44:34>> um chip before they enter the drainage

44:36system. So if some does enter the catch

44:39basin, it's not, you know, you know, the

44:42end of the world or a large deal.

44:44>> Um, and from speaking with uh assistant

44:47commissioner Ghard, I don't understand

44:50there to be a significant increase in

44:52catch basin uh collection. Um, you know,

44:54and that was also assistant well I

44:56should say director Harris over in

44:59sewers. So, um, we haven't seen a

45:02massive uptake where it's like, oh man,

45:05we had an extra 50 yards of material

45:07next year and we're going to see $30,000

45:09in increased cost. So, that thankfully

45:11hasn't translated into anything there.

45:14>> It's good. I, you know, I'm also

45:15concerned about just uh what type of

45:19chemicals and things like that that are

45:20that are, you know, might be leeching

45:22off of those materials that even if

45:25they're not blocking, you know what I

45:26mean, drain sewage uh or catch basins

45:28that water runoff is still containing a

45:31lot of just materials and sediment or or

45:33even chemicals that are part of but I

45:34understand that's something that's

45:36probably a little bit inevitable. Um,

45:39but I appreciate that. I was just

45:41curious how much of an impact that that

45:42might have had. And my follow-up

45:44question is hot in place recycling, I'm

45:46assuming, is more expensive than the

45:48chip seal. Is that correct?

45:50>> Uh yes, councelor that is correct. Um

45:53>> okay.

45:53>> There are some uh and I'll dive back in

45:56here in a in a moment to uh the various

45:58processes. So hot in place recycling. Um

46:02I think that sounds great, right? Uh

46:05because it says it's it's 100% of the

46:07material is recycled on place and it's

46:09environmentally friendly. Um, the fact

46:11of the matter is is that hot inplace

46:13recycling has some pretty significant

46:16drawbacks to it. Um, unsure if anyone

46:19had the opportunity to tour the process

46:22when we were last using it in the city.

46:24Um, but it gives off an awful lot of

46:28heat. So, um, for example, any sort of

46:32nearby or overhanging trees are

46:34typically burned. Um, so the branches

46:37are burned, the you know, smaller trees

46:39can be killed. So it has a lot of

46:41negative impacts on vegetation.

46:44The second bit that we found um with hot

46:46and place recycling is that you are

46:49putting back the same amount of material

46:51that you were taking out which presents

46:53some issues because the process for hot

46:55and place recycling does not leave a

46:57wearing surface afterwards. It leaves a

47:00road surface that is much more akin to a

47:02binder. Um, so from there we have to

47:04surface hot inplace roads and unless we

47:07were to use a process like

47:08microsurfacing or ultra thin bonded

47:10wearing course which we've kind of

47:12already cited the drawbacks from

47:13applying those uh you would then have to

47:17mill the gutter line down the roadway or

47:19mill the you know or mill off some part

47:22of the road that you just recycled in

47:24order to account for adding a wearing

47:26surface. Right? So that's kind of what

47:28we experienced on Mil Street is by the

47:30end of that process having to do the

47:32extra things such as a 4 foot wide

47:34gutterline mill and flaring pavement

47:36out, it actually ended up almost being

47:38as expensive as uh just a standard mill

47:40and overlay. Um [clears throat] the

47:42third uh part that ourselves and our

47:45pavement consultings don't particularly

47:47like about hot and place is that there

47:49is no standard for what compaction is on

47:52a road that has been hot and placed. So,

47:54one of the most important things that we

47:56look at when paving a road is if the

47:58road has been compacted correctly,

48:00because that's what's going to allow the

48:02asphalt to really achieve its full

48:03lifespan. Unfortunately, with this

48:06material, there's no way to determine

48:08what full compaction is because there's

48:09no way to take a sample, take it to a

48:12lab, judge what its compaction is prior

48:14to the process, and judge what it can be

48:16after. So, it leaves us in a world where

48:19we're not quite sure of how the road is

48:21underneath. So uh DPW has moved away

48:24from applying this process in the city.

48:27Um its cousin cold in place uh in our

48:30opinion is an excellent process. Um

48:33for a [clears throat] number of reasons.

48:34One there isn't the uh generation of

48:36excess heat. Uh two the compaction

48:39issues aren't as apparent. And then the

48:41third bit of that is that cold in place

48:43recycling the road u can be driven on as

48:47soon as the process is performed. So

48:49this treatment train goes down the road,

48:52grinds up the road, adds some material

48:54back in, and then that places it back

48:56down, and that road is back in service

48:58that day. So this is a great process to

49:01be used on uh arterial and collector

49:04roads with uh pavement thickness that

49:06can uh support the process. Um for

49:09example, we used this on granite street

49:11uh about a year or two ago, and you can

49:14go out and check out that road, and it's

49:15in great condition. Uh mill and overlay

49:18is a kind of a classic treatment we're

49:19all familiar with. That's we take the

49:20big old sandpaper machine down the road

49:22and we grind the top of the road off or

49:24sand the top of the road however you

49:26like to think of it. Uh and

49:27>> and Jake, sorry to I'm just going to

49:29interrupt briefly. So there's a typo in

49:31your slides so don't read the definition

49:33of milan overlay because it's wrong.

49:36[laughter]

49:36>> If I read that I would expect you to

49:38glare at me heavily, sir. Thank you. Um

49:42>> so uh milanov is just that. We take a

49:44machine, it's got a big drum down the

49:45road, we mill off an inch or two of

49:47asphalt depending on what's out there

49:49and the recommendation of consultant and

49:50then we add the same amount of asphalt

49:52back.

49:54>> Can I ask a question before we get off

49:56topic? Yes, Mr.

49:57>> I prefer you probably finish then I'll

49:59ask other questions. But on the roadways

50:02that had the chip seal done and

50:06it has not taken as well.

50:09Is it

50:11is there the an option to go over it

50:14with the cape seal process or is that

50:17not an option? I'm just trying to think

50:20of a way to shut it down. Right. Put a

50:22clamp on it.

50:24>> As long as the road has not degraded to

50:26some [clears throat] condition that we

50:28generally would not expect. Yes, we

50:30could cape seal or microsurface over the

50:31top of that. Um,

50:34>> okay. Just I was just curious something

50:36[clears throat] to maybe have further

50:38discussions on on and at least the

50:39streets that you know we've all of us

50:42have talked about that have for whatever

50:44reason did not take well. You know, not

50:46on all of them, but the ones that were

50:48of the poorest condition

50:51after it was done.

50:53>> Thank you.

50:53>> Y if I may just just to jump on that on

50:56the on the um the cape seal to the

50:58chair. Um

51:00[clears throat] you you're looking to

51:02pilot this. Is that is that true? And

51:04then correct is that

51:05>> within the budget already. How how is

51:07that funded?

51:09>> Yep. So uh we have a uh DT DBW and DTM

51:14have a dedicated pavement u management

51:17budget. Uh in that it's broken down into

51:19different categories. Major

51:20rehabilitation, minor rehabilitation,

51:22preventative maintenance and all the

51:23different categories we're speaking

51:24about. Uh initially we had money

51:27budgeted to be performed as chips seal

51:29for this year after the performance of

51:31that process last year that was placed

51:32on hold. So we're using the monies that

51:34were set aside and budgeted for chips to

51:36explore these other preservation

51:38options.

51:38>> So no additional money would be correct

51:40or needed or from any other department.

51:42>> Correct. Thank you.

51:45>> So kind of at the bottom of our scale

51:46here uh we have uh full depth

51:49reclamation. Um, so this is uh the even

51:52bigger grinding machine that goes down

51:53the road and instead of just kind of

51:55taking the top layer of the asphalt off

51:58with full depth reclamation, you are

52:00taking the entire asphalt matrix plus

52:02the soil underneath it and grinding it

52:04all together to produce new base course.

52:06Um, this is a much more intensive

52:07process. This requires removing all of

52:09the structures and castings in the road,

52:11lowering them, removing your curbing and

52:14doing all these things. Um, this process

52:17also requires removing excess material

52:19from the road, right? So, whatever we're

52:21going to put back in asphalt, we have to

52:23take that out in terms of reclaimed

52:25material. So, this process is very

52:27timeconuming. It's very impactful for

52:29the neighborhood. Um, so we tried as

52:33hard as we possibly can to not perform

52:35this process on roads. In some cases, it

52:38has to be done if there's a large scale

52:40water main break or a utility project.

52:42Unfortunately, this the ground is so

52:43disturbed, we'd have another option. Um,

52:45but generally, this is the last thing

52:48that we want to do. This is really the

52:50last option we have for fixing a

52:51roadway. And then full depth

52:53reconstruction. Um,

52:57you can only reclaim a road once in its

52:59lifetime, right? So once it road if it

53:02has to be reclaimed has been reclaimed

53:05unfortunately due to what you've done to

53:07the underlying soil the base is what we

53:09call it you can't reclaim that again

53:11because you'll change the consistency of

53:12that in uh ratios in that material too

53:15much. So the only option left if a road

53:18has been reclaimed and goes so far down

53:20the PCI chain that it needs to be

53:22addressed is to rip all the material in

53:25the road out which is a very labor

53:27intensive process and extremely uh

53:30disturbing to the neighborhood. So at

53:32all costs we avoid that process right

53:35there. um as we've talked about before

53:39um you know these processes are

53:43varied in their application right so if

53:45we can do stuff that's preventative

53:47maintenance we're talking $10 $15 a

53:49square yard if we're down here it's over

53:52100 um so to 150 so we're talking almost

53:56a factor of 10 higher to address a road

53:59with either full depth reclamation or

54:00reconstruction rather than just chip

54:03sealing or something along those lines

54:05so it's Um when you talk in those

54:07numbers, you can see how vitally

54:09important it is to make sure our roads

54:10don't reach this condition.

54:14Uh Commissioner, is this uh shall I

54:17continue here or is this slide for

54:18yourself?

54:19>> Uh through through the chair, I I don't

54:20think we talked about the rest of the

54:22order, so I think we're going to going

54:24to wing it here a little bit, but I I

54:25can jump in just real quick and and hand

54:27it back to you. Um

54:30the next few slides really just sort of

54:32recap the current program and we've

54:34we've actually done that already so I

54:35think we can move through them pretty

54:36quickly but um yeah just starting out

54:40again looking at this balanced approach

54:42with pavement preservation techniques.

54:44Um

54:47looks like AJ's already to the next

54:48slide. So um just to recap the current

54:51program characteristics. So there's

54:52routine maintenance which includes uh

54:54crack sealing and the permanent

54:55patching. As assistant commissioner Melo

54:58said, we haven't we haven't done fog

55:00seal for a variety of reasons. So we're

55:01really focusing on those um those two

55:05treatments.

55:06Uh really this coming year, and

55:08gentlemen, correct me if I'm wrong, but

55:10this coming year is the first time we've

55:11had a a really serious patching program,

55:14permanent patching program proposed. So

55:16that'll be a a good tool to add. um you

55:20know pavement preservation candidates.

55:22So those lower cost treatments are based

55:25on making sure the street has an

55:28appropriate PCI so it's still in good

55:29enough condition that you can extend the

55:31life of the street before it

55:32deteriorates too far. Um in terms of

55:36arterial and collector roadways, those

55:39are uh addressed uh those have been

55:44selected historically uh by DPW or more

55:48recently in combination by DPW and DTM

55:51based on the PCI. Um they're also I

55:54should mention those are the streets

55:55where we usually see a more extensive

55:57project. So, you're us at that point

55:59when the roadway conditions that bad,

56:01you're usually looking at having to um

56:04upgrade the sidewalks, replace those. Um

56:07on arterial streets and even collector

56:09streets, often there's safety

56:11improvements that it makes sense to

56:12incorporate at that time because you've

56:15got the street torn off. There's no more

56:17cost-effective time to make changes

56:19than. So any sort of, you know, if

56:21there's been prior items that have been

56:23approved by either of your committees um

56:26on that street, we'll try to incorporate

56:27it into the street design at that point.

56:30Um the local roadways have traditionally

56:32been handled differently. So that's

56:33where we've relied predominantly on the

56:36district counselor's picks. So every two

56:38years. Councilor,

56:41not to interrupt you, but can you give

56:44examples of arterial streets, collector

56:46streets, local streets,

56:49just so us and the audience has an idea

56:52of what those streets are. I don't need

56:54a lot of them, just a handful.

56:56>> Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'd be happy to. And I

56:57I will note um we did sub recently

57:00submit an item on this um in response to

57:03a a request by councelor Metitra. Um so

57:05if folks are interested in doing a

57:07deeper dive um you have that available

57:10but so starting out at the highest

57:12category uh principal arterial are

57:14that's our our most major roadways. Um I

57:18should say the classification system is

57:19actually administered by the Federal

57:21Highway Administration. So this is a

57:22nationwide system. Um and if you want to

57:26change the classification of a roadway

57:28there's a long involved process to do

57:30that that ultimately involves approval

57:32through the FHWA.

57:34Um so principal arterials again those

57:37are your major streets. So we're talking

57:38about Belmont Street um Gold Star

57:42Boulevard, Park Avenue carries a lot of

57:45traffic serves not only trips in the

57:47city of Worcester but people passing

57:48through the city of Worcester longer

57:50distance trips typically freight trips.

57:53There's another classification of our

57:55arterial streets below that called minor

57:57arterials. Some people hear the word

57:59minor and think oh that's not a

58:00significant street. It's actually the

58:01second highest classification of

58:03streets. So these are also important

58:05regional streets but just a little bit

58:07different characteristic

58:09um tend to have you know more frequent

58:11driveway access or cross street access.

58:14So it's um it's a little bit more I like

58:17to think of it as more urban in

58:19character typically but but not always.

58:21Um collectors are kind of the in between

58:25streets that collect traffic from

58:28individual neighborhoods and distribute

58:30it to that arterial system. Um, and then

58:34your local streets are, you know, what

58:36you think of in your neighborhoods. And

58:38those can actually those exist both in

58:40residential neighborhoods, but also in

58:41commercial and mixed use areas as well.

58:43So, a lot of the smaller side streets in

58:45downtown are actually classified as as

58:47local streets. So, that's the hierarchy

58:50uh involved with those. Thank you. Y

58:55um so just to reiterate again uh the

58:57local streets have uh traditionally been

58:59selected by district counselors and

59:01that's based on constituent input um

59:04petitions that have been heard by the

59:06public works committee and approved uh

59:09information concerning the pavement

59:10condition and planning level cost

59:12estimates for for uh improving those

59:14streets

59:17um with this new tool that we have. It's

59:20not that new anymore. We've had it for

59:22three years, but it's uh with the tool

59:23that we have, we actually scan the

59:26entire street system about every

59:30you really want to do it every 3 to 5

59:32years. Um so we last did this in 2023.

59:36We're talking with DPW about um bringing

59:39the equipment back out and doing another

59:40scan to get an updated picture, but it's

59:43not a black hole between when we last

59:45scanned it and now. The model

59:47automatically assumes a standard rate of

59:51degradation for each and every link in

59:53the system. And then every time DPW

59:56completes a project, we'll go in and

59:58we'll manually change that PCI to 100 or

1:00:01something close to 100 um to reflect

1:00:03that that street's been addressed. Then

1:00:05every like I said four to five years,

1:00:07you do the entire scan and you get an

1:00:09updated you know picture of the whole

1:00:11system.

1:00:13And then the last thing I want to

1:00:14mention this slide is just um that uh

1:00:17we've got a pavement management page

1:00:19that can be accessed either through

1:00:21DPW's website or through DTM's website.

1:00:24So whichever one you're poking around

1:00:26on, you can find your way there. Has a

1:00:28[clears throat] lot of great

1:00:28information. It has the pavement

1:00:30management report itself for people that

1:00:31want to dig further into that. And it

1:00:34also has the interactive map that shows

1:00:37the pavement condition as well as a

1:00:39separate map that shows the ongoing

1:00:41projects in the city. So if you're

1:00:43curious about a street construction

1:00:45project in your neighborhood, you can go

1:00:46on there, you can click on it, you can

1:00:48get information on what's being done,

1:00:50the schedule, who to contact in terms of

1:00:52the uh inspector on the project and that

1:00:54kind of thing.

1:00:56>> One more question from councelor Fzolo

1:00:59>> to you, Mr. Chairman. Um, could someone

1:01:02answer me the question? Um, the streets

1:01:06and sidewalks that will be done this

1:01:08year

1:01:10that a district counselor picks,

1:01:14the ones that will be performed this

1:01:16construction season, when will they

1:01:19start?

1:01:22Have they started?

1:01:23>> Yep. [clears throat] So, through the

1:01:25chair, um,

1:01:27during this construction season, they're

1:01:29already active. There are already roads

1:01:31active under construction that were

1:01:33selected as counselor picks. Those

1:01:36counselor picks are not from this past

1:01:39December though. Those picks will be put

1:01:41into construction contracts for the

1:01:43coming construction season. So whether

1:01:44it be the 2728 construction season, uh

1:01:48just due to the timing for how the picks

1:01:50are made, it generally takes a year or

1:01:53two before a road selected by a

1:01:55councelor actually makes it into a

1:01:56resurfacing project. So, um, yeah, to

1:01:59circle back and answer your question,

1:02:01the roads that were selected this year,

1:02:03um, those are due to be constructed

1:02:05[clears throat] over the 27 and 28

1:02:07construction season.

1:02:08>> And if I, if I could, um, just to add to

1:02:10to, um, Assistant Commissioner Melo's

1:02:13response, um, a couple things to keep in

1:02:15mind is when there are utility holds,

1:02:18then one of the unfortunate things is,

1:02:20you know, if we find out there's utility

1:02:22work that's needed in the roadway, it

1:02:23doesn't make any sense to go ahead and

1:02:24resurface the roadway and then come back

1:02:26and tear it up.

1:02:27So sometimes you'll find projects get

1:02:30deferred out for several years. So one

1:02:32of the things we've started doing is

1:02:34providing the council with periodic

1:02:36construction status updates. Um we did

1:02:39not provide one to council in August

1:02:41because of the single meeting and

1:02:43knowing we were going to have this

1:02:44meeting. We didn't want to interject

1:02:46something new right before the meeting.

1:02:47But you'll get the next updated report

1:02:50in September and that has every project

1:02:52that is either currently planned or

1:02:55under construction when it was selected

1:02:57if it was a a district counselor pick

1:03:00and what the best estimate of when that

1:03:02that work will take place uh at the

1:03:05present time is.

1:03:06>> Okay. Through you, Mr. Shannon, as a new

1:03:09counselor, this is all new to me and I

1:03:11appreciate being educated,

1:03:13but I can remember giving be we I was

1:03:16giving a list of streets and sidewalks

1:03:19that were I thought supposed to be

1:03:22completed this construction season. Is

1:03:25there such a list?

1:03:29I thought I I know I received one with

1:03:31names of streets and sidewalks to be

1:03:33done.

1:03:34>> Yeah. Through through the chair. So,

1:03:35they haven't started. Excuse me,

1:03:37Matthew.

1:03:38>> Yeah, through the chair. So that I

1:03:40believe if we're talking about the same

1:03:41list, that would have been the most

1:03:43recent counselor selections. And as

1:03:45assistant commissioner Melo said, those

1:03:47are being bid out for construction the

1:03:49following year.

1:03:50>> Okay. So they won't be done this year.

1:03:52So, what streets and sidewalks, last

1:03:55time I'll ask, what streets and

1:03:56sidewalks that a district council has

1:04:00picked maybe two years ago that might be

1:04:04this construction season? When will they

1:04:07start?

1:04:08>> Oh, have they started? I have not seen

1:04:11any in in district three.

1:04:12>> Yep. So, those roads have started. Um,

1:04:16so if I can pontificate on why you might

1:04:20have not seen work in your particular

1:04:21district, um, the contractors generally

1:04:24like to mobilize to one area in the city

1:04:26and then work there. So I know there's,

1:04:28you know, for example, like Hadwin Road

1:04:30was a counselor selection and that road

1:04:32is is quite dug up at the moment. Um,

1:04:34I'm just citing the one road that can

1:04:36come to my mind off hand. Um, so what

1:04:41may be experiencing in your district is

1:04:43the contractors simply have not

1:04:45mobilized to that area as they're

1:04:47dealing with streets that are open in

1:04:49another part of the city. We try to

1:04:51restrict the contractors to having only

1:04:53a certain amount of footage open at any

1:04:55given point in time because we don't

1:04:56want them leaving the whole city open.

1:04:59Um, but there are roads in district 3

1:05:02that will be constructed in FY, you

1:05:04know, in calendar year 26 and calendar

1:05:06year 27 that were counselor picks. I

1:05:08appreci I appreciate you um again

1:05:11informing me, educating me. I appreciate

1:05:13that. I I I'll backtrack. One street

1:05:16that I've noticed sidewalks and street

1:05:18that has started is Actton Street. So,

1:05:22is that a street that was scheduled to

1:05:25be done this year?

1:05:27>> I'll have to dig a little bit to provide

1:05:29that exact information. So, if you don't

1:05:31mind a few minutes, um I can get that

1:05:32information.

1:05:33>> That's fine. Okay. Thank you. I I

1:05:34appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

1:05:37line.

1:05:37>> Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

1:05:38>> Sorry.

1:05:39>> Uh through the chair. Thank you very

1:05:40much. What I will do is I will reforward

1:05:43the July construction project uh report

1:05:47that was provided by DTM and DPW and

1:05:50that lists all the streets in every

1:05:52category so that you can look and see

1:05:54which streets are expected to be

1:05:56completed by when.

1:05:59>> Council, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh

1:06:02yeah, I don't want to keep everybody,

1:06:04but I do have some some questions

1:06:06regarding, you know, a lot of the work

1:06:07that's been done. Um so through the

1:06:10chair to commissioners uh is it safe to

1:06:13say that the the PCI so residents will

1:06:16understand um if they're not sure the

1:06:18PCI will determine what process is taken

1:06:21like what's the next process and then

1:06:24obviously

1:06:25does that turn back to the counselors to

1:06:27decide what will be done or is that

1:06:29something that you guys will continue to

1:06:31just say hey we'll do this before it's

1:06:34time to bring it to the council

1:06:37>> so through the chair If I and gentlemen

1:06:39please please jump in if if you have a

1:06:41different perspective on this but for as

1:06:43I understand the question um we we're

1:06:47still following the process as we have

1:06:49previously um district counselors select

1:06:53local streets based on information we

1:06:55share with you as well as petitions DTM

1:06:58and DPW uh select arterial and um

1:07:01collector streets. The types of

1:07:03treatments that are proposed for those

1:07:05streets though will be tied to that PCI

1:07:08band that it falls in. So, we're using

1:07:10the appropriate type of treatment given

1:07:13the condition of the street. So, we

1:07:14don't want to spend, you know, $100 a

1:07:16square yard doing

1:07:19reclamation on a street that's has PCI

1:07:2275, for example.

1:07:23>> Okay. Thank you. So then, you know, one

1:07:25of my major concerns is, and I I believe

1:07:27you guys have been dealing with this as

1:07:28well, is when it comes down to the the

1:07:32inspections

1:07:34um of the work that's being done um the

1:07:37the the prior the the the setup, the

1:07:40work that's being done, and then after

1:07:42um and also the works, the sewer

1:07:44projects that they're, you know, they're

1:07:46properly they're restored or the work is

1:07:49being done correctly. has some of those

1:07:52um have you strengthened those

1:07:54inspections? Have you um how are those

1:07:56conversations have have come along with

1:07:58some of the contractors? Because there's

1:08:01many times within the district, you

1:08:02know, some projects are being done um

1:08:05but there's just not satisfied.

1:08:08It's not good for the residents, but

1:08:10they say they completed the work and

1:08:11then we have a hard time getting that

1:08:13contract back. So, I just want to know

1:08:15how have those conversations been?

1:08:17[snorts]

1:08:17>> Yep. So through the chair, um,

1:08:20[clears throat]

1:08:21punch list items on projects are

1:08:24essentially, you know, the crux of your

1:08:26conversation or what you're focusing on.

1:08:29And I think

1:08:33generally I've found over the course of

1:08:35my career, those are the items that you

1:08:37just have to nag a contractor to

1:08:40perform.

1:08:41um they are something that

1:08:44we are working to close the loop on but

1:08:49it is difficult sometimes to get these

1:08:52things performed in a timely fashion due

1:08:54to the type of worker involved. Now

1:08:56please bear with me for a second. Um and

1:08:59this is not to provide excuses for

1:09:00contractors because that's the last

1:09:02thing I'm in business to do. It's more

1:09:04to provide just kind of a reality

1:09:06picture here. So

1:09:09contractors essentially do one thing. So

1:09:12they're a paving contractor, they're a

1:09:14excavation contractor, they're utility

1:09:16contractor.

1:09:18All of the rest of the services that

1:09:19these guys provide on a roadway to us

1:09:21are subcontracted. So if it's moving a

1:09:24casting, moving curbing, installing

1:09:26concrete, generally all that work is

1:09:28brought in from a consult a

1:09:30subcontractor from out of house. when we

1:09:33have items that are punch list items

1:09:35that unfortunately fall through the

1:09:37crack. Um, and that can be for any

1:09:40number of reasons. Um, it can be

1:09:43difficult to get a contractor to come

1:09:45back and do them when we, you know,

1:09:47within a prescribed timeline say you

1:09:49need to do this by the end of the month.

1:09:51Um, and that can be for, you know,

1:09:54generally for scheduling reasons, right?

1:09:56So the contractor has to bring that

1:09:58subcontra contractor back into the city

1:10:01and get them to perform that work. If

1:10:03there's not sufficient volume, say they

1:10:05only have to go and do a number of homes

1:10:07frontages, their subcontractor just

1:10:09won't show up. Um so that's kind of the

1:10:12re unfortunate reality there is

1:10:13sometimes for example lmen seed. Um

1:10:16there are a number of roads that have um

1:10:20you know over the course of the winter

1:10:21it was it's become apparent that the lom

1:10:23that was placed was uh inadequate.

1:10:27Well the problem is that the landscape

1:10:29crew that puts the lom in won't be

1:10:30coming back until they have a massive

1:10:32amount of lom to put in. So as we

1:10:34continuously poke the contractor they're

1:10:36just not able to really get anything

1:10:38done on their end which leaves us with

1:10:41two choices. uh going after the

1:10:44contractor for liquidated damages, which

1:10:46represents a greater cost to the city

1:10:48than we're going to get. The juice isn't

1:10:50worth the squeeze there often, unless

1:10:52it's a a massive issue that's arisen. Or

1:10:55we could pull the um retainage for a

1:10:59job. And again, that's very

1:11:02timeintensive process, right? So, we

1:11:04have to file some paperwork, go through

1:11:06a legal process, essentially take their

1:11:07retainage, and then we'd have to

1:11:08contract the performance of that workout

1:11:10anyway.

1:11:12So, um, we focus a lot on punch list

1:11:15items because they come up at the end of

1:11:17the year, uh, when contractors, labor

1:11:19forces are typically diminished and guys

1:11:21are getting laid off and contractors are

1:11:23looking to be done. Um,

1:11:26uh, but the unfortunate part of that is

1:11:28some of these just do fall through the

1:11:29cracks. So, we are working with the

1:11:32contractors. We have one particular

1:11:33right now that I'm meeting with actually

1:11:35tomorrow to address a number of concerns

1:11:36that have been brought up multiple

1:11:38times. Um, but it is an issue that we

1:11:40are continuously addressing.

1:11:41>> Yeah, I I I believe it's it's

1:11:43frustrating, right? It's frustrating for

1:11:44us counselors where, you know, we we we

1:11:46hear from our residents that the roads

1:11:48and sidewalks and we want to support

1:11:49them and then it's it's just not done

1:11:52well and and the city takes the takes

1:11:54the hit on it. So within this bid

1:11:57process, is there those conversations

1:11:59that within the bid process they have

1:12:02when the work is done um the inspections

1:12:05and even though they leave is within the

1:12:07bid process they have someone ready to

1:12:10go in cases of those issues versus oh

1:12:12they're going to have to come back three

1:12:13months later or it's too late now in the

1:12:16year it's cold out now you're going to

1:12:18have to come back now the residents are

1:12:20deal with those issues and and also you

1:12:22know um utility

1:12:25um companies come in, they cut up the

1:12:28sidewalk, they don't come back, they

1:12:30throw down um the black top on a on a

1:12:33sidewalk and they don't come back and

1:12:35it's left like that. uh Perry the street

1:12:38and we we've talked about Perry numerous

1:12:40times and it's unfortunate for the

1:12:41residents to to to have a road and the

1:12:43sidewalk like that but a lot of work is

1:12:45done throughout the city and district 4,

1:12:47you know, um has a lot of those areas

1:12:49where utility trucks come in, they tear

1:12:51up the road, they tear up the sidewalk,

1:12:53they throw down the the the the asphalt,

1:12:55the black top and they head out and

1:12:57whatever it may be. And it's not, you

1:12:59know, not done to anyone's liking, but

1:13:02it just stays like that. It just seems

1:13:03like nothing. we're not getting any

1:13:05headway and we continue to go back and

1:13:07forth with with these um with these

1:13:09companies. Um and it feels like our

1:13:12hands are tied with them because the

1:13:14amount of work that needs to be be done

1:13:16in the city and I understand but it's

1:13:18like they're able to do that and just

1:13:20continue to do this process where we're

1:13:22now you're saying you're meeting with

1:13:23someone where you have constant

1:13:25conversations with them over and over

1:13:26again and for me it's like well this is

1:13:28your job this is your responsibility.

1:13:31Um,

1:13:32>> if I can I jump on that?

1:13:36>> It's eating me up inside. So, I got to

1:13:37say it. I got to get it out of me.

1:13:42>> There's a There's a issue with the

1:13:44process.

1:13:45There's an issue with the process.

1:13:49We represent

1:13:51the city of Worcester and our

1:13:52constituents, the taxpayers.

1:13:55when work gets done,

1:13:58somebody must

1:14:00go to that site, inspect it, and you

1:14:04know, I'm I'm going to use the issues

1:14:06that I'm dealing with now.

1:14:09That material that was put down that

1:14:11they sprayed grass seed over

1:14:15was not adequate material from the

1:14:17beginning. It should have never been

1:14:18signed off on. It should never been

1:14:20accepted.

1:14:21That's where the that's where we need to

1:14:25change our process.

1:14:27So

1:14:29the inspector who's on site says, "No,

1:14:31that gravel that you put down that we

1:14:33just hydro seated is not suitable for

1:14:36growing grass." So now that poor

1:14:38resident, those residents on that street

1:14:41now are done dealing with it this year.

1:14:44Now they're back into this this upcoming

1:14:46year dealing with the same issue. That's

1:14:49the that's my biggest frustration.

1:14:52Um, and that's where I, you know, as

1:14:55council hater said, the process needs to

1:14:58change and there's got to be better

1:15:01oversight over what we expect

1:15:06collectively as a municipality for the

1:15:08people that we represent. That's my

1:15:11frustration.

1:15:12Um,

1:15:14with that, I know council I don't know

1:15:16if you're done. No, just to your point,

1:15:18you know, there's times where we hear um

1:15:20some people won't do certain jobs in a

1:15:22city because we're not paying enough,

1:15:24right? But I'm pretty sure we're paying

1:15:25good money for for them to do this work,

1:15:27right? So, that's a different type of um

1:15:30ball game there. So, it's not like we're

1:15:32not paying the money for it and and the

1:15:34and the work we're getting in return is

1:15:35just it's unacceptable and you know,

1:15:37there's a lot of money that's goes that

1:15:39goes out there. It's frustration. Um,

1:15:41and then on top of that, it's also the

1:15:44communication to our residents about

1:15:46these projects. Um, you know, I'm

1:15:50dealing with uh Endeott Street and then

1:15:52obviously Chandler Street that'll come

1:15:54down the road, too. So, I just want to

1:15:56make sure we get ahead of making sure we

1:15:59provide as much information to these

1:16:00residents with all these projects in

1:16:02multiple languages. Make sure they're

1:16:04involved um so they can give us valuable

1:16:07information on what's going on and

1:16:09what's needed in the in in the

1:16:10neighborhood. and then understand this

1:16:12this whole process. Um, again, it's it's

1:16:15something that as counselors, that's

1:16:16that's where, you know, they hold us

1:16:18responsible, but when we're in this like

1:16:21like uh councelor Econom said, it's the

1:16:24process and this process is holding us

1:16:26back and it's making the city look bad.

1:16:27So, I just I really want to force and

1:16:29push the fact that we we got to do a

1:16:31better job on pushing back and making

1:16:32sure this work is done properly and we

1:16:35notify the residents as much as possible

1:16:37on this process. Thank you. So through

1:16:39the chair, if I may.

1:16:40>> Yes.

1:16:41>> So your your points are well taken,

1:16:43right? There are processes in place that

1:16:46we are continuing to improve upon. $20

1:16:49million worth of work going on in the

1:16:52city is a lot of work. So the inspectors

1:16:54are under a lot of stress. That's no

1:16:56excuse for poor quality work, but that's

1:16:59something that we're continuing to work

1:17:00on and something that we are dealing

1:17:02with our contractors at the start of the

1:17:05job and at the end of the job. And as uh

1:17:08as Mr. Melo mentioned,

1:17:11staying on them on the punch list

1:17:13requirements because we're paying good

1:17:16money. We expect good work in return. So

1:17:19that's something that we're working on.

1:17:21Um I've been to a couple of

1:17:23publicformational meetings where there's

1:17:25going to be um a lot of work and a lot

1:17:29of changes to the the roadway itself.

1:17:31for example, um, College College Hill.

1:17:36Uh, and the one before that was

1:17:39>> Mass. Yeah.

1:17:41>> Uh, so we're getting out there well in

1:17:44advance of these projects even being

1:17:46designed. Uh, we're we're out there with

1:17:48preliminary designs for the residents so

1:17:50that we can hear the residents, hear

1:17:53their concerns, and make changes where

1:17:55we can in those designs. Uh, and I will

1:17:58credit the engineering division. and

1:17:59they go out and they they put flyers on

1:18:02all the doors to identify uh the work

1:18:05that's going to be done, an estimated

1:18:07time of when it'll be done. And

1:18:08Commissioner Ry mentioned something

1:18:10earlier. Uh we've developed a more

1:18:12comprehensive website where if residents

1:18:15have questions on a roadway, they can

1:18:17click on the road, it will give the

1:18:19inspectors information in the

1:18:20engineering office so they know who to

1:18:22contact and make complaints and express

1:18:24their concerns. So it is a process that

1:18:27every day we're trying to improve upon.

1:18:31>> The chair

1:18:32I just have a followup. I just wanted to

1:18:34kind of reiterate what some of the other

1:18:35counselors have said and also I think to

1:18:38just express I think for a lot of

1:18:39residents and for counselors too you

1:18:41know we're understanding how long the

1:18:43work takes and so um you know it is I

1:18:45think additionally frustrating to see

1:18:47when contract work happens that you know

1:18:51it's residents have waited a while for

1:18:52something to happen for whatever the

1:18:54work may be and then the work is subpar

1:18:56and and and you know what I mean then

1:18:58understanding how long it takes to get

1:19:01to circle have everyone circle back I

1:19:04think is just I wanted to add to what my

1:19:06colleagues had said and and about just

1:19:09you know needing to do better and I

1:19:10think the the um new ordinance or or

1:19:13policy that was put forward to extend

1:19:16the warranty that utility companies need

1:19:18to come back you know to work on those

1:19:20utility patches I I think is a great

1:19:22step but I I agree with the um you just

1:19:25needing to deliver you know hold

1:19:27contractors to a better standard and I

1:19:29think of the what happened earlier this

1:19:32summer on park a where there were

1:19:34sections of sidewalks that were just

1:19:35open for for for weeks um on a you know

1:19:39very busy area. So um yeah, I just

1:19:42wanted to reate that and I had one

1:19:45follow-up question regarding crack

1:19:47sealing. Um has that work are there

1:19:50roads that in each district that have

1:19:52been identified for crack sealing and

1:19:55when can we expect that work to start?

1:19:58>> So if I may to the first you can take

1:20:01the second one. Go ahead.

1:20:02>> Go ahead,

1:20:03>> please. No.

1:20:03>> Okay. Um, relative [clears throat] to

1:20:05the crackling counselor, um, that work

1:20:07has been put out to bid. We anticipate

1:20:09that work being uh, No, I'm sorry. I

1:20:11have to stand I have to correct myself.

1:20:13That work was awarded recently. So, we

1:20:15anticipate that work beginning

1:20:17uh this fall. Um, we will be up against

1:20:20it when it comes to time. It gets a

1:20:21little too cold to crack seal towards

1:20:23the end of October or so. Uh, so that

1:20:25work will most likely pick back up in

1:20:27the spring. Um but we do have roads uh

1:20:29that have been identified um including a

1:20:32number that uh the commissioner has

1:20:33passed me uh from your desk. So those

1:20:36will be addressed um over the coming

1:20:38construction season.

1:20:39>> If I may, Mr. uh Mr. Chairman, it's

1:20:42important to understand that the city

1:20:44cannot advertise for new contracts until

1:20:47the budget is ordained by the city

1:20:49council. So that occurred sometime mid

1:20:52July. So the FY27

1:20:55funding was not available until mid July

1:20:58and that's the only time that we could

1:21:00then begin the bidding process. So FY27

1:21:04we're going to see a lot of work done

1:21:06but several of those contracts aren't

1:21:09even open yet because we can't advertise

1:21:11until uh again the funds are available.

1:21:14So there's a lot of work forthcoming but

1:21:17it it takes time to get through that

1:21:19contracting process. If I could also add

1:21:22Thank you.

1:21:23>> One item that I think is of relative

1:21:26importance when it comes to the volume

1:21:28uh

1:21:29our contractors. So we have roughly five

1:21:32resident inspectors

1:21:35uh for con or asphalt jobs in the city.

1:21:37We have engineers who are resident

1:21:39engineers on you know water and sewer as

1:21:42well up in engineering. But we have

1:21:43about five uh gentlemen who do road work

1:21:46for the city. So each of those uh

1:21:48inspectors is managing about $4 million

1:21:50worth of construction work. Um

1:21:55at a project at that level if mass dot

1:21:58would be performing it there'd be about

1:21:59four guys on it. So in terms of capacity

1:22:04our my team or our team is asked to do

1:22:07an awful lot um several act orders of

1:22:10magnitude greater in my opinion than

1:22:13their counterparts in other

1:22:14transportation organ organizations. So

1:22:16while I do as commissioner Wesling said

1:22:20fully appreciate and agree with the fact

1:22:22that we've had issues with completion on

1:22:24these projects um I don't want that to

1:22:26lie at the feet of the gentleman who

1:22:27worked for me very hard. So

1:22:30if I may that there's no doubt right but

1:22:33that's information we need to know too

1:22:34right because that's information we need

1:22:36to talk to the city manager about if we

1:22:38don't have the manpower to do the job

1:22:39properly

1:22:41we need to we need as a council we need

1:22:45to collectively look to to change that.

1:22:48So, you know, that information does

1:22:50help. Um, if if I can just change course

1:22:54just to let the people in the audience

1:22:57give their two cents.

1:22:59>> Oh, sorry.

1:23:05>> Just your name and city of residence,

1:23:06please.

1:23:07>> Good evening. Maria Kaplanis. I live

1:23:09here in Worcester. I live in 01602. And

1:23:12Councilman uh Rivera is my

1:23:15representative.

1:23:18So, I just want him to come back to the

1:23:20table. He's busy.

1:23:21>> Yeah.

1:23:28>> Good evening, Councilman Rivera. You've

1:23:30received my emails and my pictures. I'm

1:23:33here to talk about my little slice of

1:23:34heaven on Kums Road. It's a dead end

1:23:37that abutts Foley Stadium. And you've

1:23:40all seen my emails. I'm not sure if

1:23:43you've come to my little slice of

1:23:45heaven. Councilman Rivera, you've

1:23:46inherited me from Etel Hajier. She also

1:23:49saw my emails and my pictures. If I was

1:23:52techsavvy, I would put them up to show

1:23:54you that my street is no longer a

1:23:57street. It's down to the dirt. I have a

1:24:0067year-old husband.

1:24:02I'm almost there myself. We have a

1:24:04tenant. There's a young couple next

1:24:06door. Took five months to sell that

1:24:08house next door. We have two huge humps

1:24:12and our road is down to the dirt. You've

1:24:15seen the pictures. I've said it three

1:24:17times. Look back into the thread and

1:24:19share it with your councilman.

1:24:22It's distressing. It's not safe. It's

1:24:25unattractive. It's messy.

1:24:29And

1:24:31I live in the best house in the city of

1:24:33Worcester. My house of Butts Foley

1:24:35Stadium. I have the best view in the

1:24:37city. and I have I live in the culde-sac

1:24:41of CalPley and uh Kulage Road. Please

1:24:45take care of us. I thought I was on a

1:24:47list. I received the emails. It seemed

1:24:50to have gone ahead and then I just

1:24:52called on a whim to verify and I was

1:24:55pushed back again. Help me help myself.

1:24:59If the city can't help me,

1:25:02can I keep my taxes? Can I pay a

1:25:04contractor?

1:25:06We finally were blessed that we saved

1:25:08enough money. We had our driveway

1:25:10and the guy said, "I'll do it for you. I

1:25:12know someone in the city, but I know

1:25:15someone, too. I know you. I voted for

1:25:18you.

1:25:21Help me. Help my husband. Help the

1:25:24walkers in on Kum's Road. We are three

1:25:28homes. It's weird geographically. We're

1:25:30three addresses on Kums Road. Even

1:25:32though we have five homes, people come

1:25:34down there all the time. Halloween with

1:25:37their babies, with their cars, walking

1:25:40their dogs.

1:25:42We have a beautiful, beautiful deadend

1:25:45street in Worcester. Fix it for me,

1:25:47please.

1:25:49This is 3 years in and it's only getting

1:25:52larger

1:25:53because what gets put off is not going

1:25:56to go away. It's going to get bigger. 17

1:25:59Kums Road 1517.

1:26:02>> Okay.

1:26:03>> I'm hearing all the speak and I have to

1:26:05say, Councelor Folo, you speak my mind

1:26:07in almost every meeting. I love how you

1:26:10represent me with your questions and

1:26:12your comments. You really do. Um, Mr.

1:26:16Econom, we know each other from kids

1:26:19through our church community, but you

1:26:21also represent me. I really love the way

1:26:24you advocate for all of us.

1:26:28I'm really understanding your speak now

1:26:30as a larger picture. Money, time,

1:26:34management.

1:26:36That's on you. That's why we voted for

1:26:38you, right? We do other things in the

1:26:39city for you. Do for us.

1:26:43>> Thank you, Maria.

1:26:44>> Can I just ask Maria a question? You

1:26:46said that your your street was selected

1:26:49already to be fixed.

1:26:50>> We were and then we weren't. So, I got

1:26:53the emails and then I called 311 again

1:26:56and said, "It's almost winter. Where is

1:26:59the con construction?" And she says,

1:27:01"Oh, it's been push pushed off. You

1:27:03didn't make it on the cutoff." I I had

1:27:05three papers. I didn't bring them with

1:27:07me tonight. We had already been accepted

1:27:10again.

1:27:13>> You want to talk?

1:27:13>> I'm not here to complain. I'm here to

1:27:15advocate. I'll I'll touch base with

1:27:18Commissioner Raleigh on on that street

1:27:20stuff like that just to get an update on

1:27:22on the emails and stuff you sent us.

1:27:25>> It's already down to the dirt, so it

1:27:27can't get worse. It can only get larger.

1:27:30But if you give me the go-ahad, I'll

1:27:32bring my tar guy back. He's happy to fix

1:27:34it. I just really don't know how to find

1:27:37a way around it.

1:27:40Thank you for your time. Thanks for

1:27:41everything you do. One thing before you

1:27:43go, you and I were talking about the

1:27:45water issue.

1:27:46>> Yes.

1:27:47>> Is that something? Maybe

1:27:48>> because I abut Foley Stadium

1:27:51pretty much onethird of the length at

1:27:53the baseball field section in the back.

1:27:58It must be a bog. There's water

1:28:00everywhere. You can't see it. It's under

1:28:02the surface, right? It's like a water

1:28:03catches water. I don't know the

1:28:06geographical term. Do you're nodding.

1:28:09So, you see where I live? You're looking

1:28:11it up. No, if I may through the chat.

1:28:13>> Yes, go ahead.

1:28:14>> So, uh, a couple of things. Number one,

1:28:17with regard to the drainage issue, we'll

1:28:20speak to Commissioner Anteneelli and see

1:28:21what he's got for issues on the baseball

1:28:24field and how it drains off of uh that

1:28:27property onto private property. Uh, and

1:28:30secondly, your com your concerns about

1:28:34uh Kums Road. Is that the sidewalk or

1:28:36the road?

1:28:37>> Oh, the sidewalk.

1:28:38>> The sidewalk.

1:28:39>> The sidewalk. But if I may, since I'm in

1:28:42front of it,

1:28:44>> I'm going to come back anyways.

1:28:45[clears throat]

1:28:46>> So this time last time last year, winter

1:28:48time, the first snowfall, we have a snow

1:28:52bin that the plow can drive through

1:28:54because we're a dead end. So they can go

1:28:56all the way to the end, right? There's a

1:28:59a weird [clears throat]

1:29:01>> cut out.

1:29:02>> There's a square at the end of my

1:29:03street. It's not a street. It's where

1:29:06you could have walked into the field,

1:29:07but they shut that door. So that's where

1:29:09the snow plow goes. But the snow plow

1:29:11this year didn't bring the snow into

1:29:13there. He left it on the street. So what

1:29:16that did was accumulate all winter long

1:29:18at every huge snowfall. We had snow. We

1:29:23had a an ice pile in the middle of our

1:29:25street. We couldn't get out of our

1:29:26driveway

1:29:28because he didn't push it in far enough.

1:29:30So it impacted at the edge of our road

1:29:33starting on both mine and the across

1:29:35sister Julie Amy uh our driveways.

1:29:41So a lot of curious things.

1:29:43>> Yeah.

1:29:43>> Thank you.

1:29:45>> Thank you for listening.

1:29:45>> Thank you.

1:29:46>> I appreciate it.

1:29:47>> Thank you.

1:29:47>> Yeah.

1:29:48>> Thank you. Good evening.

1:29:54>> Uh Fred Nathan Worester. So I've been

1:29:57sitting here for an hour and a half.

1:29:59We've talked about the color schemes.

1:30:01We've talked about the chip uh ceiling

1:30:04or and crack ceiling. There's a lot of

1:30:07mumble jumble and slides and everything.

1:30:10I just want to ask one thing about

1:30:12something that has not been talked about

1:30:14at all.

1:30:17My friend John Prisa's district with all

1:30:20the trucks from CSX, how much how much

1:30:24damage has that done to Grafton Street

1:30:26proper?

1:30:29I mean, has it made a good part of

1:30:31Grafton Street almost untraable?

1:30:35Who knows?

1:30:37Um,

1:30:40something that you kind of touched up

1:30:42about uh just a small amount

1:30:46uh dealing with the amount of uh people

1:30:49that you have working in the DPW.

1:30:53Hopefully there will be enough people on

1:30:57board uh through the chair. Um if there

1:31:02are not enough people on board with the

1:31:05DPW,

1:31:07we have been paying for the last couple

1:31:09years probably three times the amount uh

1:31:13because we've needed private

1:31:15contractors.

1:31:17It would be nice if they could pay the

1:31:20Worcester people and not the private

1:31:23contractors to handle all the snow.

1:31:27Obviously, that's not possible because

1:31:30uh the city of this size, it takes a lot

1:31:33of money. I mean, but when they're

1:31:35spending I I don't know how much money

1:31:38has been spent, but I've been told more

1:31:41money than you could think has been

1:31:43actually spent on private contractors

1:31:46compared to paying the people from uh

1:31:51who actually work for the DPW. I mean,

1:31:53I'm sure he'll make a comment, but uh

1:31:56but I've heard that. I don't know how

1:31:58true it is. I'm I'm putting it out here.

1:32:00If it's true,

1:32:02it's not right. If it's if I'm wrong,

1:32:05well, then I'm wrong. But if I'm right,

1:32:09uh, we should have enough people working

1:32:11in the DPW. I get it. You got to go

1:32:14through civil service, but it kind of

1:32:18makes us look like a laughingstock. If

1:32:22>> bring this back to

1:32:23>> Yes. I just wanted to bring it all into

1:32:26context, Sam.

1:32:27>> Thank you.

1:32:27>> Because it's all interwoven. Uh no

1:32:30matter how you look at it, uh the roads

1:32:35are the roads and the roads lead in and

1:32:38the roads lead out. And if enough people

1:32:40get sick and tired of the stuff, they

1:32:42might move out.

1:32:44>> Thank you.

1:32:45>> Just a thought.

1:32:46>> Thank you. Is there anyone online, Mr.

1:32:49Mr. Clerk?

1:32:51>> Mr. Chairman, there is no one online at

1:32:52the time.

1:32:53>> Okay, great. Um,

1:32:56I don't know if we have to go much

1:32:58further on the It's pretty

1:32:59self-explanatory. The rest of it's just

1:33:01kind of what we're doing, what we're not

1:33:02doing. Um,

1:33:07so you guys started this in 2024. Is

1:33:10that is that accurate?

1:33:13>> That's that that's correct. Yeah.

1:33:14>> And how's it how how are you seeing

1:33:16things from your from your end of it?

1:33:18How are how are you seeing the progress?

1:33:21And then I'm going to go to Council Me.

1:33:23>> Yep. Uh sorry council

1:33:24>> through the chair. I think like any

1:33:26process um and I apologize I'm like the

1:33:30hokey analogy guy so I will avoid that

1:33:32here but this is like learning a new

1:33:33hobby for us right so um

1:33:38with a city this large uh despite the

1:33:41professionalism that's contained between

1:33:43DTM DPWR consultant and everything else

1:33:46this is still the second largest

1:33:47pavement management system in New

1:33:49England which you know comes with some

1:33:51challenges. So I feel like our first uh

1:33:55run through this we've shown uh the

1:33:57utility and efficiencies that can be

1:33:59provided by using this program. Um I

1:34:01think we've seen more ground level

1:34:04challenges when it comes to the

1:34:05application of different processes. you

1:34:07know, chips seal is a good example, but

1:34:09um in terms of the value this can

1:34:12provide, our budget

1:34:14um the value this provides for planning,

1:34:17the efficiency for addressing PCI and

1:34:20improving the road the city's roadway

1:34:22network, all of that is very apparent.

1:34:24Um,

1:34:25you know, if anything from this process,

1:34:27I think one of the things that we can

1:34:30take away is, uh, as Commissioner

1:34:32Raleigh at earlier is, um, although

1:34:34we've had projections from 2023 that

1:34:37kind of showed what we need to have for

1:34:39investments, um, I think that is the one

1:34:42part of the program that unfortunately

1:34:44isn't reflective of reality anymore. And

1:34:47that's not due to the fault of of any of

1:34:50the members of the team. Uh that's

1:34:51really just the economy being a runaway

1:34:53train at the moment. Um so even with our

1:34:55best projections for how inflation would

1:34:57have impacted the plan, unfortunately

1:35:00those have kind of been um cooked a

1:35:02little bit. Um but in terms of the

1:35:04actual utility and efficiency of it, I

1:35:06think that's already shown its value.

1:35:09>> Thank you, Council Me.

1:35:13>> Thank you, Chairman. [clears throat] U

1:35:15first of all, I I really would like to

1:35:17thank Commissioner U.

1:35:21Don Westclinger here and assistant

1:35:24commissioner J Melo and also

1:35:28commissioner [clears throat]

1:35:30uh Steve Raleigh along with the

1:35:32assistant commissioner appreciate you

1:35:34coming and giving us uh really good

1:35:37knowledge about how the system works. uh

1:35:41I'm not an engineer and uh really

1:35:44none of these things that you explained

1:35:47today was in my knowledge before but I

1:35:51learned some but again I think uh I as a

1:35:55counselor count more on our expert

1:35:58engineers like you all your department

1:36:00what you do is what I trust that is done

1:36:03the best way so

1:36:06I still feel that uh at the end of the

1:36:09day we want to see we want to see

1:36:11results we're not here I think the joint

1:36:14meeting was done probably to exchange

1:36:16some ideas and thoughts and see how we

1:36:18can improve our situation

1:36:22u yes definitely I think the process is

1:36:26something it's not only the this

1:36:28particular aspect of the city but many

1:36:30aspect of the city uh needs to have an

1:36:33improved process in my opinion not only

1:36:36this but that we have to work on But I

1:36:40think at the end of the day we want to

1:36:41see results. You know I know that we

1:36:44have challenges. I know we have

1:36:46difficulties. I know that there are all

1:36:48the things that I learned today the PCI

1:36:50level the you know minor uh preparation

1:36:54or the major rehabilitation or the

1:36:57system that we use to fix the fix the

1:37:00streets and make it good. The end of the

1:37:02day I think you know we're trying really

1:37:04to entice and attract businesses to our

1:37:08city. Uh I've been in the city council

1:37:11this probably my 32nd week and I have

1:37:15gone about at least 30 ribbon cutting I

1:37:19would say to see that how businesses are

1:37:21coming.

1:37:23I always think that we got to retain

1:37:25them. If they are walking or driving on

1:37:29the street where they don't find it

1:37:31comfortable certainly someday they'll

1:37:34probably not be here and they'll leave.

1:37:36And that's where I think we're gathering

1:37:37together to see that how we can make

1:37:40this city more attractive and more

1:37:43comfortable to live and do business,

1:37:45raise family and do everything. So this

1:37:47is an important part in my opinion

1:37:50having city of booster comfortable

1:37:52streets. That's why I requested what are

1:37:55the major arteries that you think and

1:37:57thank you very much uh commissioner

1:37:59rally for giving me that list and I

1:38:01think there are about 20 of them that

1:38:03you listed. I like to see that those 20

1:38:06if not all which is costing us about

1:38:08$300 million to do back in couple years

1:38:11back that you mentioned here which

1:38:13probably not going to be I'm not saying

1:38:14that we should do all the streets in a

1:38:17year. I am of the opinion that let's

1:38:19pick three or four streets at a time and

1:38:22see it within the budget or what it

1:38:24takes for us to really fix and make

1:38:26those streets. So at least the residents

1:38:29know that we have a plan, we have a

1:38:31project, we have a standardized system.

1:38:34Personally, I think we lack

1:38:35standardization. Don't we have a

1:38:38standardized system that the city of

1:38:40Worster should have roads of particular

1:38:43standard so much PCI? Now I know the

1:38:47private streets are not probably part of

1:38:50our maintenance but do we have any

1:38:53responsibility to see that even private

1:38:55streets have some kind of standards that

1:38:57should be kept maintained by the city to

1:39:00bring safety for those who live around

1:39:04there. So I have a question that you

1:39:07know how do we really resolve this issue

1:39:10because I like to see at least the major

1:39:11arteries are maybe in the next 3 four

1:39:14year project if this could be done I

1:39:16have already requested the manager to

1:39:19look into it I have requested the other

1:39:21day a loan program if we take extra

1:39:24money for this project how much it would

1:39:26cost for the city to have an extra

1:39:29budget so we're looking into it and I'm

1:39:30really going to very strongly come back

1:39:34and request DPW DTM

1:39:38to give us a result that okay we have

1:39:40done 20 major streets done

1:39:45commissioner Ali you just mentioned that

1:39:47the

1:39:48streets are selected by the district

1:39:52counselors

1:39:53I wasn't aware that it is always

1:39:55selected by the district counselors I

1:39:57believe if the district counselor

1:40:00say for example didn't select any do we

1:40:03have a system that our inspectors will

1:40:06kind of make a round of the city and

1:40:08figure out which street needs to be

1:40:10taken care of. Do we have a proactive

1:40:12approach or we always depend on the

1:40:15district councilors to come back to you

1:40:17to see these streets need to be done?

1:40:20I'm not sure uh how does that work. I'm

1:40:23sure I have also given some requests to

1:40:27pave and resurface some of the streets

1:40:29even though I'm not a district council

1:40:31but I think we all can do that in my

1:40:33opinion but uh I'm not looking for an

1:40:37answer right now but I I'm just

1:40:39suggesting that

1:40:41to commissioner here commissioner there

1:40:44that all of us here together I like to

1:40:47see that our streets we do like for

1:40:50example we're doing Park Avenue right

1:40:52now from uh say I believe Chandler to

1:40:56[snorts] Salisbury Street that area is

1:40:59going to be done and then it looks like

1:41:02sometimes some areas are done they look

1:41:04like patchy they don't look so good you

1:41:06know we don't want to have a good

1:41:08appearance of our city to attract

1:41:10everybody to come here

1:41:12after we do all these I understand the

1:41:15budgeting is the issue and we may just

1:41:16do a portion of the street because

1:41:19that's the major part where the PCI is

1:41:21below the standard.

1:41:24Can we after all pave the whole street

1:41:27so that it looks good like just the

1:41:29paving just like we do driveway paving

1:41:31so it looks black top and looks nice. I

1:41:34don't know but I'm not an engineer but I

1:41:36think I let's let's see that the city

1:41:37looks good and the necessary things that

1:41:40needs to be done is done in the right

1:41:42way with the proper patching approach

1:41:45taken which I believe few people are

1:41:48expert on it. what is done uh I don't

1:41:51understand so much the engineering part

1:41:53of it but I trust that our experts are

1:41:55doing the right thing and we should have

1:41:57inspectors after those contacts get the

1:42:00job done we should have enough

1:42:01inspectors to go and make sure that it's

1:42:04done right and if not then there should

1:42:06be some kind of consequences

1:42:08so that's my my request I would like to

1:42:11see that in coming few years we have

1:42:13done at least the major arteries thank

1:42:15you for giving me the names of the art

1:42:17because some of them are probably done

1:42:18some of them are really good like burnt

1:42:20coat street looks nice to me. I go to

1:42:22Newton Avenue beautiful but I go to

1:42:25Marboro Avenue I can't even walk so I

1:42:28think we need to have a standardization

1:42:30in our city that at least this level of

1:42:33standard standard system should be there

1:42:36in each road particularly the major

1:42:38arteries. So that's what my suggestion

1:42:40is that what can we do maybe let's put

1:42:43together our mind and see budget if the

1:42:46money is not there how much we need

1:42:49manpower is not there like council

1:42:51economist said let us know what do we

1:42:53need because we need to get it done I

1:42:55think I like to have people say woo

1:42:58streets are very nice right now

1:43:00everybody say that our streets are

1:43:02horrible I want to change that image

1:43:06thank you

1:43:08>> commissioner

1:43:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, we share

1:43:14common goals here, right? We would love

1:43:15to have all of our streets at an 80 or

1:43:19above PCI. I give credit to the folks

1:43:22that came before me, uh, the folks over

1:43:24at DTM, the folks at the DPW who put

1:43:26together this pavement management plan

1:43:29starting in 2024 and and produced in

1:43:332025. Before that, the city didn't have

1:43:37a standardized approach to how to best

1:43:41get the biggest bang for the buck with

1:43:44the limited funds that the city had for

1:43:46the roadways. Uh this year we're putting

1:43:49some $20 million down into the roadways.

1:43:52Previous years was averaged about 13

1:43:54million. So we were always falling

1:43:56behind. So I want to thank the city

1:43:58manager and the city council for funding

1:44:01up to $20 million this year. That's

1:44:03terrific and that will make a bigger

1:44:05impact. Um, and I know that uh there's a

1:44:09there's an interest in paving more of a

1:44:12road than is selected for resurfacing.

1:44:16I'm going to put this in an analogy. If

1:44:19the if the paint is peeling in the

1:44:22bathroom and you need to paint the

1:44:23bathroom, then you take care of that.

1:44:25You don't paint all the other rooms in

1:44:27the house just because uh one room needs

1:44:30painting. So that's an analogous to Park

1:44:34Avenue. The section that was done was uh

1:44:37more of a poor condition, a lower PCI

1:44:40than the rest of it. And we would love

1:44:42to have been able to mill and overlay

1:44:45all of Park Avenue, but then that would

1:44:48take away from those limited funds uh

1:44:50that are necessary for pavement

1:44:53preservation, counselor selections,

1:44:55arterial road reconstruction, and other

1:44:58roads that are done.

1:45:00Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:45:01>> I just I just like to, you know, thank

1:45:03you for the analogy you gave of the

1:45:04bathroom. See, my bathroom is my

1:45:07bathroom. It's private. I can do

1:45:09whatever I want. Nobody else is looking

1:45:11at it. This is the city. This is where

1:45:14I'm attracting outsiders to come and

1:45:16live. I want the city to look beautiful,

1:45:19look good, look comfortable, look right.

1:45:22And that's why I'm saying that do that

1:45:24piece of park. That's fine with me. But

1:45:27then [clears throat] pave it all the way

1:45:29like we do the driveway to make it look

1:45:31good. I mean I do have to make sure that

1:45:34the city looks better than my patching

1:45:38in my bathroom because that's only me.

1:45:40So I hope you understand what I'm trying

1:45:42to say. We try to bringing in businesses

1:45:44bringing in people live here thrive with

1:45:47their businesses

1:45:49make their kids go to school have a

1:45:51great school. So that's all the ultimate

1:45:53plan and all these things make that

1:45:56happen and that's why my request is to

1:45:59see that what it takes to do that. You

1:46:01let us know what is not available to you

1:46:04and we'll see what we can do through the

1:46:06administration to get you that to make

1:46:08that happen. That's all. Thank you.

1:46:10>> Thank you counselor.

1:46:13>> I just want to add and kind of like put

1:46:15it into into perspective here. So, you

1:46:17know, Jay went through all of the

1:46:19techniques that are available in the

1:46:21toolbox and we want to keep all of those

1:46:23available because we need to use all of

1:46:26them. There's $480 of road. That's

1:46:30insurmountable. So, if you use the the

1:46:33funding that Steve showed earlier of $14

1:46:35million a year, if we let all the roads,

1:46:38if all the roads were in that worst

1:46:40category at $160, the most expensive

1:46:42category, you can pave five miles a year

1:46:45out of $480,

1:46:47that would take you 96 years to touch

1:46:50every road in the city. And nothing on

1:46:52that list will even come close to

1:46:55lasting for 96 years. If you use the

1:46:57pavement preservation program um which

1:47:01most of the mileage of roads about 160

1:47:03miles of that system is in that category

1:47:07at $15 would be 50 miles a year. So

1:47:10every year your construction

1:47:13um program would be touching 50 miles of

1:47:16the city instead of five and that way

1:47:19you could resurface every road about 10

1:47:21years. Um so you touch the whole city in

1:47:2410 years. So it just kind of shows the

1:47:26we need all of these. Not every road is

1:47:28in that category or in the worst

1:47:29category. So it's a mixture of them. And

1:47:31plus with all the intricacies of all of

1:47:33those things in the toolbox, we just

1:47:35need them all to have a comprehensive

1:47:37system so that we can pave as much as we

1:47:40can with the money that's available. And

1:47:42if we just focus on the worst roads,

1:47:44we're not going to get that far and

1:47:45we're going to be even more um digging

1:47:48ourselves into a hole. So that's kind of

1:47:50what this program is based on. Um, so

1:47:52that you're doing all these different

1:47:54types of treatment for the right road at

1:47:55the right time to try to keep the

1:47:57status, keep those roads that are in

1:47:59good condition in good condition while

1:48:01fixing some of the bad ones to bring it

1:48:03up into that good condition. But as the

1:48:04roads make it into that good condition,

1:48:07you keep them there and you preserve

1:48:08them at a lower cost. So,

1:48:11>> thank you. I I like this system. I'm

1:48:14glad we finally have a proc excuse me,

1:48:19[clears throat and cough] a process for

1:48:21it.

1:48:25you know, we're we're still at the

1:48:27infancy of it, so it's going to take

1:48:28some time for for it to really show out

1:48:31there. Um, the question I have is how

1:48:35how do you guys attack it? Like I'm I

1:48:38look at the um

1:48:40the 65 to 80 PCI as being the biggest

1:48:44chunk

1:48:46of mileage

1:48:48um in the preventative maintenance.

1:48:52Is that an area that we're working more

1:48:54on to keep things more prevented in more

1:48:57preventative stage? Are you spending

1:48:59more time on minor rehab? How how does

1:49:03it work from your guys' standpoint?

1:49:05>> How do you look at it,

1:49:06>> Mr. Chair, I think you you've hit the

1:49:07nail on the head there, which is that is

1:49:09our biggest category, and that's also a

1:49:11category where there are still

1:49:13cost-effective treatments. So, it's

1:49:14important for us to really emphasize and

1:49:18apply those preventative maintenance

1:49:19treatments and prevent as much of that

1:49:22mileage from falling into the next

1:49:23categories as we can. So, that has to be

1:49:26a a key part of the program. Um, and

1:49:28just, you know, for everyone's

1:49:30information, you're referencing um the

1:49:32chart on on slide 20, and this gets to

1:49:34councelor Rivera's question earlier

1:49:36about how many miles do we have in each

1:49:38category. So you can see here um

1:49:41>> too just for clarification um I see the

1:49:44miles but

1:49:46in a broader um picture I I was I don't

1:49:50know if you guys have this or not but

1:49:52just an example let's say city of

1:49:53Worester has

1:49:55a thousand streets right how many of

1:49:58those are in the really need repair and

1:50:03some how many are maintenance you know

1:50:05and based on the color configuration

1:50:08that you gave was 1, two, three, four.

1:50:10Do we have that kind of numbers or no?

1:50:13Just mileage.

1:50:14>> So, it's all in the in the DTM report on

1:50:18the pavement management website. So, we

1:50:19have it broken out by percentage of

1:50:22roads and there's a list of every of we

1:50:24have um you know internally with DBW a

1:50:27list of all the roads and all the

1:50:28categories so that we can make these

1:50:30decisions. Um but basically it's how

1:50:33they make the decision is based on that

1:50:35data as a planning level and then go to

1:50:37engineering from there. Um but in that

1:50:40report it also shows the allocation of

1:50:42Jay mentioned earlier that okay this is

1:50:44the budget for the year. Um there's so

1:50:47much percentage of that budget allocated

1:50:49to each type of those repairs. Um and we

1:50:53looked at two funding scenarios. So, we

1:50:54said, "Okay, um the if we didn't do any

1:50:58preservation and all the money we put it

1:51:00in, um the worst category, it would cost

1:51:04us $20 million just to to stay status

1:51:06quo. Um but in moving those percentages

1:51:10around, putting more percentage into the

1:51:12paving preservation to keep those roads

1:51:14good that are already in good condition,

1:51:16uh we can reduce the amount of money

1:51:18that we need each year to about 14

1:51:19million. So um we look at that

1:51:22percentage to see um that will change

1:51:24from year to year also depending on how

1:51:26many roads are in that category. Um but

1:51:28right now there's about 30% of the roads

1:51:30are in that pavement preservation or 160

1:51:32miles um in 2023 when they were scanned.

1:51:36So um we look to scan the roads every 3

1:51:38to 5 years because the further we get

1:51:41away from scanning the roads the more

1:51:43relying on modeling and you know

1:51:45predictions and actual not actual

1:51:47numbers. So,

1:51:48>> not that it's important, but just out of

1:51:50curiosity, how many rows does the city

1:51:52of Wester have in total if you have that

1:51:55on you

1:51:56>> through the chair? I I would have to

1:51:57report back to you on do maybe it looks

1:52:01like assistant commissioner Melo may may

1:52:03know here.

1:52:04>> That's we do it more in miles and square

1:52:06yards because it's like the length of

1:52:08the roads because it could be 10 roads

1:52:11in 480 miles or it could be 10,000 roads

1:52:14in 480 mi. We have that number. It's

1:52:16just

1:52:17>> the other the other thing we through the

1:52:18chair the other thing we find is that

1:52:20the condition of a road may vary from

1:52:23block to block. So there's some roads

1:52:24that have say four blocks that are you

1:52:27know in terrible condition and need

1:52:28major rehab and the next eight blocks

1:52:32perhaps were done more recently and are

1:52:34candidate for a different treatment.

1:52:37>> Councelor Fizzola has a question.

1:52:40Just quickly, I I I'm just going from

1:52:45memory. Just recently, I thought I heard

1:52:4916 million earlier $19 million. I

1:52:51thought we were spending $22 million on

1:52:54streets this year. Somebody

1:52:57>> Yeah, Commissioner Wesley can verify

1:52:59this year. This year is our highest I

1:53:01think um funding level ever but

1:53:04historically we have in the past

1:53:06typically been at around 12 to 14

1:53:09million a year

1:53:11through the chair that is correct. Uh

1:53:13last year we did increase the monies in

1:53:16the uh so this would be FY26

1:53:19we increase the monies in the

1:53:20resurfacing budget to match the $19.2 $2

1:53:22million uh threshold that wouldn't be

1:53:25needed to bring up the roads to the PCI

1:53:28that we've uh kind of been harping on.

1:53:30Um the only issue really that we've also

1:53:33cited there is that money has now become

1:53:36inadequate to reach that. So this year

1:53:39we were given additional resurfacing

1:53:41funds through administration and we're

1:53:43putting very good use to those. Um

1:53:45however, if we want to achieve the goals

1:53:48laid out in the payment management plan,

1:53:49we need to explore um making that a

1:53:52permanent shift uh just due to

1:53:54inflationary costs. Otherwise, we're

1:53:56going to be back um just kind of trying

1:53:59to tread water.

1:54:01>> Mr. Chairman, I want to give credit to

1:54:02Jay Melo and his team because you

1:54:04received how much for Grafton Street?

1:54:06>> It was $2 million.

1:54:08>> So, above and beyond the local funds. Uh

1:54:11the engineering team found $2 million

1:54:13from Mass DOT to resurface a major

1:54:16section of Grafton Street.

1:54:18>> Yeah.

1:54:19>> Okay. Thank you. Through you through you

1:54:21Mr. Chairman. So um that 2 million is

1:54:25additional to the 22 million.

1:54:28>> Uh

1:54:30uh through the chair that is correct.

1:54:31So, uh, we were given additional monies

1:54:33for resurfacing through, uh,

1:54:35administration and then, uh, through

1:54:37some strong partnerships we have over at

1:54:38Mass DOT and their pavement preservation

1:54:40folks, we were able to achieve, uh, some

1:54:42funds to pave almost another two miles

1:54:44worth of, uh,

1:54:45>> Oh, that's great news and I appreciate

1:54:48that. The only other thing on page two,

1:54:51I see this pavement management system

1:54:53dashboard. Out of all the colors,

1:54:56unfortunately, I see more red than

1:54:57anything. Is that is that the case where

1:55:00our streets are are in that much need of

1:55:02repair that we have

1:55:05>> through the chair there's a lot of red

1:55:06it's not it's not the majority it's not

1:55:08the highest category um but there's

1:55:10there's a lot it's about um sorry I need

1:55:14to turn to the slide where I can

1:55:16actually see the percentage

1:55:17>> I can assist you there commissioner it's

1:55:1921%

1:55:21looks a lot on the map it looks a lot

1:55:24more than 21% but that's

1:55:25>> the red really jumps out Yeah. Okay, Mr.

1:55:29Chairman, thank you very much. I

1:55:30appreciate your information, team. Thank

1:55:32you.

1:55:34>> Um, I don't know if there's any other

1:55:36questions,

1:55:39>> guys. I I just want to thank you all. I

1:55:41appreciate you coming in and just

1:55:42enlightening us as to what's available

1:55:44to us as a municipality.

1:55:47Um,

1:55:48my my sense is in the next couple of

1:55:50years, we're going to see more a greater

1:55:53impact um through this programming. um

1:55:56which is phenomenal. Um I look forward

1:55:59to hearing more about

1:56:03what we can do with some of the chip

1:56:05seal fails. I think that's important for

1:56:08people. They're struggling with it. It's

1:56:10affecting their everyday life. Um but I

1:56:14appreciate I appreciate the management

1:56:16the pavement management program. I think

1:56:18it will do what it set out to do for us.

1:56:22So thank you.

1:56:24>> Mr. Mr. Chairman, can I ask for feedback

1:56:27from the counselors? If there is a road

1:56:29that we believe uh that the rubber chip

1:56:32failed to share that with us so we can

1:56:34go out, inspect it, we can bring the

1:56:36contractor out, inspect it. Um but we

1:56:39did a lot of roads last year. I don't

1:56:41believe that they've all failed. Uh but

1:56:43if you've got that feedback, and we can

1:56:46also do an inventory, but if you've got

1:56:48that feedback, we can take a closer

1:56:50look.

1:56:50>> And I And I Sure. Of course. And I still

1:56:56I like the chip seal process because

1:56:58I've seen it in other communities and it

1:56:59worked. Whatever happened on the few

1:57:01streets where it didn't work I feel is,

1:57:06you know, a roll of the dice that on

1:57:08that particular day or that particular

1:57:10week something failed in their system.

1:57:14Um but I do think it's a it could be a

1:57:16very useful tool

1:57:19um for us here in in our city. So,

1:57:22>> Mr. Chairman, you're absolutely correct.

1:57:24We would love to mill an overlay or full

1:57:26depth reconstruction every 450 miles in

1:57:30the city. We simply can't afford it. So,

1:57:32this extends the life of existing

1:57:34pavement. Doesn't come out to the same

1:57:36level as a brand new pavement. But

1:57:39without doing that, those roads would

1:57:41deteriorate until they failed. At which

1:57:44point, the city would be able to go in

1:57:45and would have to do work

1:57:47>> because I see the value. If you can

1:57:48preserve a street for another five

1:57:50years, eight years at a at a you know,

1:57:53just like at your own home, you know,

1:57:54you do it at home, you know, you spend a

1:57:57couple bucks to paint that room, okay,

1:57:59that room's done. I don't have to worry

1:58:01about it again. So,

1:58:04um, if there aren't any more questions

1:58:06from my my uh committee members,

1:58:13Mr. Chairman, um, Mr. Clerk. Um, I'd

1:58:17like to make the motion um to hold this

1:58:19item in committee

1:58:21with the roll call vote, please.

1:58:23>> Councilors Fizzolo,

1:58:26>> yes.

1:58:26>> Mitra, yes. And chairperson, councelor

1:58:29Conor,

1:58:29>> yes.

1:58:31>> And uh, traffic parking is going to do

1:58:34the same thing. Want to hold it, keep it

1:58:36in our agenda for future discussions.

1:58:39Roll call.

1:58:40>> Councilors Bada.

1:58:42>> Yes. Oh,

1:58:44>> yes.

1:58:45>> And chairperson councelor Rivera.

1:58:46>> Yes.

1:58:49>> Uh for um

1:58:53for my committee of public works motion

1:58:56would be to adjurnn.

1:58:58All in favor?

1:59:00>> Opposed? So vote.

1:59:03>> And for traffic and parking uh meeting

1:59:06adjourn. Roll call.

1:59:08>> Councilors Bada

1:59:11>> Oha.

1:59:12>> Yes. Yes. And chairperson counc.

1:59:14>> Yes.