2026-10-15 - Finance Committee

00:04Good evening and welcome to the October

00:0615th, 2026 finance committee. Um we'll

00:10call this meeting to order and begin

00:12with uh our introductions. To my right,

00:14>> Dave Remington,

00:16>> Dennis Okonnell,

00:17>> Kelly Barner,

00:18>> Milan Kitkar,

00:19>> Jean Budenhagen,

00:20>> Victoria Pittney,

00:21>> and I'm Jim Flynn.

00:26>> Item number two, approved minutes. Um,

00:28did anyone have a chance to everyone

00:30have a chance to look at them?

00:31>> Do we have a meeting?

00:32>> I say call to order.

00:33>> Okay.

00:34>> Okay. Um,

00:35>> nothing.

00:36>> Any edits or comments on the uh the

00:38agenda on the uh meeting minutes? If

00:40not, can I get a motion?

00:42>> Motion to approve.

00:43>> Second.

00:45>> All those in favor?

00:46>> I I

00:49>> number three, uh, the town manager

00:52report. We're going to get an update on

00:53the 20 uh 27 revenues.

00:58Thank you. So before we get into an

01:01update on local receipts to date, um I

01:04just want to provide an update on the

01:05overall FY27 budget after the setting of

01:08the tax rate on Tuesday. So on Tuesday,

01:10the select board voted to set the tax

01:11rate at $11.38.

01:14This is down 12 cents from the FY26 tax

01:17rate, which was $150.

01:19uh the average single family tax bill

01:21will be going up um $167.71.

01:26And so just to note that, so to balance

01:28the FY27 budget with the increased state

01:31aid that was received after town meeting

01:34and additional new growth, uh to balance

01:37the FY27 budget, we were able to reduce

01:40the estimated amount for local receipts

01:42by about a million dollars. So you might

01:44notice that this total amount that's in

01:47front of you is less than the estimated

01:49amount that we took to town meeting. So

01:51the town meeting estimated amount

01:55for local receipts was 19,455,000.

02:00We've reduced it to 18,419,000.

02:06And so looking at local receipts through

02:08the first quarter of FY27, we've

02:10collected 20% or just under $3.7

02:14million. Um I will note that some of the

02:18categories like motor vehicle excise the

02:20largest commitment is in February. So

02:23we'll expect to see that. But everything

02:26seems to be trending on pace so far

02:28through the first quarter.

02:31>> Chair question.

02:32>> Yeah. Go ahead. How does this compare to

02:34last year at this time of year? This

02:35what basically after one quarter.

02:38>> So last year through the first quarter

02:42we had collected

02:49uh $3.6 million

02:52>> which was

02:52>> 3.66. So

02:54>> about the same percent

02:55>> about the same. Yep.

03:00Anyone

03:02else?

03:03>> Are we going to go down through these

03:05items or

03:06>> if there's any in particular? We we

03:08definitely can. Um

03:10>> I'd just like to talk about that

03:11homeless transportation a little bit.

03:14>> Yep. So, I'll just start from the top.

03:16So, motor vehicle excise, like I said,

03:18the biggest commitment will come out in

03:19in February. So, um even though it's

03:22only about 9%, this is on track with

03:24what we expect. And then the other

03:27excise category. So hotel, meals and

03:30cannabis. This is received from the

03:32state quarterly. Um and hotel is

03:37pleasantly trending ahead of what we

03:39thought. Um with no hotels in town, this

03:41strictly comes from short-term rentals

03:44like Airbnbs.

03:47Meals tax is trending. And then

03:49cannabis. We we've continued to kind of

03:51see a little bit of a decline in this.

03:54um but with three quarters left, not

03:56concerned at this point in time.

03:59And then I'll tie penalties and interest

04:00and then investment income um both

04:03together. So we just received the first

04:06large quarterly investment income

04:09payment that we get and that was about

04:101.1 million and that is on track with uh

04:14pre the previous year first quarter.

04:18um other trash. So the landfill. So this

04:22is a category that with the reduction of

04:25about a million dollars, we did lower

04:26our estimated amount for this just based

04:28on the estimate that we received from

04:31Wheeler for this fiscal year.

04:35And then

04:38um so this the other departmental

04:40revenue categories as you can see a

04:42little a little skewed um but small

04:46budget amounts.

04:50licenses and permits about a quarter in

04:52being 24% on track.

04:57>> And then Jean, you wanted specifically

04:59to talk about the homeless

05:00transportation

05:03and just the actuals. when they had the

05:06workshop with the the select board, they

05:09were talking about we just had an

05:11additional number of immigration

05:14and families being brought back into

05:16town and is this transportation going to

05:21cover this

05:24the year?

05:28Um I I think that comes in like a

05:30lagging quarter from the state. So, I

05:33would think that that's probably

05:34indicative of the end of the prior year

05:36school year. Um,

05:39it's that's the federal McKini Vento

05:42Homeless Assistance Act. Um,

05:46this is one of the categories that we

05:48worry about every year because we're

05:49never sure what at what funding level

05:51the the state's going to reimburse us

05:54back or reimburse us at or what cost

05:56shares we're going to have to do. Um,

06:00so I think we'll just need to I don't

06:03think this is the only payment that

06:04we're going to get this year, but we can

06:06try to get a little bit more information

06:07on that. Um, like I said, because it's

06:10such a lump sum, I think it's probably a

06:12lagging quarter from the end of last

06:13year.

06:14>> Yeah, we received $78,000 in August and

06:17about $35,000 in September.

06:20>> Could I just just one followup? Uh the

06:24last time we were involved in this

06:27program, we had a lot of the families

06:30that moved in wanted their children to

06:33stay in the same school systems where

06:35they were being relocated from.

06:38>> Mhm.

06:38>> And it kind of telescoped very quickly

06:42on you. So,

06:44>> but does the state cover all that or we

06:49So, it's split between the

06:51municipalities. It's a 50/50 cost share

06:54on that transportation

06:56>> between the sending district and the

06:58home district.

07:00>> 50%.

07:01>> 50/50. Yeah.

07:03>> Thank you.

07:05>> Of course.

07:06>> So, did you say the the trash and

07:08landfill you reduced it by about a

07:09million?

07:10>> No, I'm sorry. So, overall local

07:12receipts,

07:13>> right,

07:14>> we reduced by a million. Um, that one we

07:16reduced by about 150,000.

07:19>> Okay. I misdeed you then. I was like

07:21that didn't add up then. Thank you.

07:30>> And you shed some

07:31[cough and clears throat] light on the

07:32department revenue for schools like what

07:34does it include?

07:39>> Um I can try and get some specifics

07:42about that.

07:44>> Okay. Yeah. I just want to

07:45>> Yep.

07:46>> understand what that

07:48>> Yeah. There are a few different accounts

07:49that kind of funnel into that bucket.

07:51Um, so I can have that for the next

07:53meeting if that's okay.

07:54>> Yeah, that's fine. I mean, if you have

07:55some high level idea now, that's fine

07:57too. Uh, or next meeting is fine.

07:59Thanks.

08:04>> Yeah, I had a You said more?

08:06>> Yes,

08:06>> all set. Um, I had a couple questions as

08:09well. Um, on the cannabis piece, can you

08:14remind me how many establishments or

08:16retail facilities we have in town? I

08:19think we all know it's going What was

08:21our peak? Was it three,

08:23>> four,

08:24>> two?

08:24>> It's always been two.

08:26>> Okay.

08:27>> The the select board authorized uh host

08:30community agreements with two other

08:35um establishments that weren't retail.

08:36So, we have two licenses. Those have

08:38always been filled, but then they

08:40authorized two other host community

08:41agreements, but those businesses never

08:43actually opened.

08:44>> They never Okay.

08:46>> Okay. Thank you. And then just going

08:49back to Jean's comments on the

08:51transport, the homeless is u just a

08:53couple follow-ups on that.

08:56Is that specific to students and busing

09:00kids to and from school or is there

09:02other additional transportation

09:06>> um for that line specific? Yeah.

09:07>> Yeah. That line specifically is for um

09:11transporting

09:13students among school districts. Again,

09:15if they had um you know, if they show up

09:18in Shrewsbury and they designate um I'm

09:22not the expert on this. The school would

09:24be um but they designate another

09:27district and they need transported to it

09:29like where they're formally from then we

09:31[cough] we have to cover some of that

09:33cost.

09:34>> Okay. And the state funds like $35

09:38million to help reimburse some of those

09:40costs, but normally our costs far

09:43outstrip what we get reimbured for,

09:45>> but the spirit of the program is the

09:47children.

09:48>> Yes, exactly.

09:49>> Y

09:50>> and then um just lastly on that topic,

09:54Gan had referenced he had heard there's

09:56been an an increase in that. Is that

09:59true? I hadn't heard that. So what um

10:03the schools had mentioned is that the

10:06Worcester City Motel, which is a a state

10:10um supported uh homeless shelter, um was

10:15going to be it was expecting to to get

10:18an additional families because several

10:21of the other shelters in the region were

10:23being closed, but this one was remaining

10:25open.

10:25>> Okay.

10:28>> Thank you.

10:28>> Question.

10:30What does a town save in the school

10:32budget by people choosing to go to their

10:35original district or whatever? So, I

10:37mean, if we're Sounds like we'll be

10:39transporting a lot of kids out of out of

10:41district, paying for that, but what

10:43would that how many students is that? Is

10:45that

10:46>> 20 100?

10:48>> I I don't know what those numbers are

10:50right now. Um, and I don't think that

10:54we've necessarily seen that increase,

10:55but I guess it's

10:56>> Well, I don't think I'm saying we could

10:58if they all went here, I think we'd have

11:00an increase because we'd probably need

11:01more teachers. I'm wondering what is,

11:03you know, are 20 staying here and 100

11:06>> going back to their, you know, home

11:09district,

11:10>> which I can understand why they'd want

11:12to, but

11:13>> um, so it may not be as bad if we're

11:15paying transportation to put them in

11:18those schools.

11:21or it could be worse.

11:22>> Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm I'm

11:23happy to try to get that information

11:25from the schools on where we are

11:27specifically with these the students

11:29this year.

11:29>> And this is really a state issue more

11:31than a town issue.

11:35>> Yeah,

11:35>> just sort of on on what Dennis said.

11:38>> So, is this in the school budget? Like I

11:41know they do special education busing

11:42and regular busing. So, is this part of

11:45the school budget or it's part of the

11:46town budget that we're talking about? So

11:48the expenses are on the school side.

11:50>> Okay.

11:51>> And and anticipated in the overarching

11:56revenue umbrella.

11:58>> Okay. Thank you.

12:01>> Okay.

12:01>> And just to so just to follow up on the

12:04departmental revenue for schools, um the

12:07bulk of that 154,000,

12:10146,000 of it is out of district

12:13vocational transportation, a

12:15reimbursement from the department of

12:17education.

12:19So if I may follow up. So is that

12:21related to the leaster

12:23school you know that we transport for

12:26high school kids?

12:27>> I believe so.

12:28>> Vocational.

12:30Okay. Thank you.

12:35>> Okay. Anything else on the revenue

12:37update from Alex? Now we can proceed to

12:403B. um discuss the FY27 meeting

12:45schedule, cadence, um agenda and

12:47workflow. Um I had asked Alex to add

12:50this to our agenda. [clears throat] I

12:52thought it'd be a good opportunity based

12:54on some of the conversations we had at

12:56our last meeting, maybe use it as a

12:59placeholder to just talk about some of

13:01the things we're looking at or I've

13:03heard whether through the community or

13:06through our conversations. Um, I guess

13:09the most obvious, well, what I was

13:11thinking and we could talk about it.

13:12I'll kind of throw the framework out

13:14there and then you guys can we can all

13:16chime in. Um, we could add a we we call

13:20the meeting to order. I think moving

13:22forward what's now number two. Um, we

13:24could maybe change to updates andor

13:26communication where we have a standing

13:29couple high visibility topics that we

13:33would like an update on. Um the first

13:36one that comes to mind for me would be

13:38um the master steering committee that we

13:41appointed Vicram um onto the board onto

13:45that committee back in August I think

13:48thereabouts and I know they've met a few

13:50times. We don't have to we're not going

13:52to obviously get anything today with him

13:54not here but again this is just for

13:56topics for discussion. Um, my other

13:59three, and I'd say all of us have had

14:01these these discussions, um, would be an

14:04update on where we are with the schools.

14:06Um, you know, some of that ties into

14:08some of the conversations we're asking

14:10the manager today that, um, we can get

14:14ahead of. Um, two would be the uh, DPW

14:19or the I guess the it would be the mun

14:22is it the MFA? Is that the proper the

14:25municipal facilities? organization

14:27[cough and clears throat]

14:29>> committee.

14:30>> Thank you.

14:31>> Yep.

14:32>> Um

14:34add that to me. That's two. And then the

14:36last one would be um what the override

14:39may look like um as we get into budget

14:41season. Um as my fourth year on this

14:44board, I feel like, you know, sometimes

14:47we know these things are out there, but

14:48then we kind of get, you know, hit over

14:51the head with information and we're

14:53trying to do our piece. So, um I think

14:56it's something we can keep on. That's

14:57not to say,

14:59um the town manager's office will have

15:02an update each and every month. He may,

15:03he may not. Um but I'll pause there for

15:08a second, open it up to questions or

15:09comments. Um I will say I think we do

15:13want to try and get in front of the um

15:15school committee ourselves specifically.

15:19Um, I'm not sure how fair it is to ask

15:22some of the questions we may have um to

15:25to Kevin and Alex um when I feel they

15:28may have that information at their

15:30fingertips. Now, we can talk about

15:31frequency and interaction, things of

15:34that nature, but that's kind of where

15:36I'm at. So, I'll pause there and open it

15:38up to discussion. Any thoughts?

15:41>> I think it's a good idea.

15:43>> Thank you.

15:43>> I do. I mean, there's a lot of things we

15:45bring up one meeting and we by the time

15:47we get to the end of the meeting, we

15:48forget we want to bring it up in the

15:50next meeting. So, I think there's

15:52probably a few key things.

15:55>> Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I know we've

15:56talked a lot about tri boards, whatever

15:59it is, whether it's school committee,

16:00you know, um I was part of the last one.

16:03Um I'm not sure that's really the best

16:06avenue. I think, you know, when I talked

16:07to Alex about this, um, you know, maybe

16:10we can just get in front of the the

16:12school folks ourselves and and and have

16:14that

16:15>> select board.

16:16>> Well, we can start with ourselves and

16:18then bring them in once we kind of have

16:19our bases covered. Um, not opposed to it

16:22and um just feel like we've been asking,

16:24it's really not gone anywhere. So, we'll

16:26just take the bull by the horns and

16:27reach out to them ourselves.

16:28>> Don't have a problem asking every week

16:30and letting it go out there that we keep

16:32asking for it and not getting it.

16:33>> Yep. Well, we can also take a Yeah. the

16:36initiative. So, um that'll be one thing

16:38we can do. And then, uh you know, um

16:42>> I guess I'm agreeing we don't need a tri

16:43board. We could have

16:44>> Right. But I'm not saying it won't lead

16:46to that. Yeah.

16:47>> But, um with a new superintendent, um

16:51you know, it' be nice to interact with

16:53them. Um you know, I think we all kind

16:56of realize it's they've got a lot on

16:58their plate as well. and if we can kind

17:00of ease into some [clears throat]

17:02some of that information instead of

17:05showing up on a Saturday in March trying

17:08to drink out of a fire hose. You know, I

17:10think um you know, we've all been on

17:12this now for several years, most of us.

17:14So, um you know, I know that's a

17:17conversation Gan and I have had in the

17:18past as well. So, those we're not going

17:22to get into any of them today, but that

17:23was kind of the framework. Is there any

17:26any that I'm missing that you'd like to

17:28add? I don't want it to become a huge

17:29master list, but I think it's important

17:31to the community on, you know, th those

17:34three that stick out. Um,

17:38>> anyone else?

17:39>> Well, I just have a question. Like,

17:41>> sure.

17:41>> Mechanically, how do you see that in

17:43your head? Like, does someone actually

17:44sit up the schoolboard and talk to them

17:47like we're on the committee or is it

17:48we're in the audience, we come up, ask

17:49questions, or we observe it? So, where

17:52like how far do you see that going?

17:54>> I wanted to hear your feedback first. My

17:56my if I had my brothers, I'd be like we

17:59appoint similar to what we did with

18:01>> Vicram.

18:03>> We reach out to the superintendent and

18:05we ask, hey, is there some sort of

18:07frequency we could connect with her and

18:09we being maybe two members of this board

18:11who then in turn report back to us with

18:15an update no different than what

18:16Vicram's doing.

18:18>> And if you know, see what they say. I

18:20don't want it to become redundant

18:21either,

18:22>> right? Um, but that was kind of I don't

18:24think all all of us present need to go

18:27to one of their meetings or vice versa.

18:29I think but we also need to stay in our

18:31lane, right? And just we're here to

18:32collect information,

18:34>> you know, not not dictate.

18:35>> I agree with that. But I think the lane

18:37is to try to figure out what they're

18:38trying to do with their budgets.

18:39>> Yeah. And that's that's

18:40>> and what their pain points are ahead of

18:42time so as we go through the budget, we

18:45>> better understanding of why they would

18:46have done A, B, or C.

18:48>> Right. So,

18:51>> Jean,

18:52>> I I I think it's a great idea. The only

18:54thing I think I would add to it is

18:56before you move forward to that,

18:58>> we'd have some type of a workshop where

19:03everybody could get kind of their input

19:07out on the table, what they're really

19:09looking for. That would be my opinion.

19:12If one or two people are going to go and

19:15sit with them, that's fine. But the rest

19:17of the committee, I'm sure, has some

19:18thoughts and ideas and maybe just kind

19:22of an informal work. I think our

19:24informal workshops were fantastic that

19:27we did have and get it out. So,

19:30everybody's kind of in agreement what

19:31we're looking for and say, "Oh, how come

19:33you didn't do that? How comes we didn't

19:35get that?" That that type of that's my

19:38only feeling.

19:38>> We can do that, right? Absolutely,

19:41Kelly. And I would just add, I mean,

19:43definitely I think we're all interested

19:44in what's going on in the schools, new

19:46superintendent. I think as we start to

19:49have some of these other conversations,

19:50especially this year, I mean, what she's

19:53now six weeks into a fresh term being

19:56superintendent, also getting that back

19:57and forth around timing. So, I

20:00completely agree. We don't want to wait

20:01until Saturday in March, but now's also

20:04probably really fast. So maybe a little

20:06bit of back and forth figuring out both

20:08the cadence but also when does it make

20:09sense that things have started to settle

20:11in a little bit so that we can it

20:13becomes forging a relationship as

20:14opposed to just you know

20:16>> developing piling on.

20:17>> Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah, I'm super

20:19sensitive to

20:21>> they make those. like to see it start

20:23earlier than later because again the

20:25whole idea is we get informed about what

20:29their goals are for the budget and we

20:32can make up our own you know not make up

20:33we can do our own research on what we

20:35think you know is is good for the town

20:38or not good for the town.

20:39>> Sure.

20:40>> Yeah.

20:40>> No, I'm up

20:42>> because that's the other thing. We don't

20:44want to drink from a fire hose three

20:45nights in a row because we start we

20:47finally get the meeting in February.

20:49>> Yeah. No, I don't I I'm sure we can do

20:51something a little bit sooner than that.

20:52Um if not next month,

20:54>> um or maybe December. I mean, I know

20:56meeting monthly kind of always puts us

20:59>> depending on the time of season at a

21:01disadvantage. But um I think what we can

21:03do is um is reach out or I I'll reach

21:06out with with with you guys on board um

21:09to the school committee and uh get their

21:12thoughts as well. I'm sure they'll be

21:14open to it and uh report back and then

21:17we can piggyback Jean's idea for a

21:19workshop

21:21and then that can just kind of develop

21:23on its own organically as we go into

21:25November and December.

21:27>> That'd be perfect actually right in

21:29terms of timing and well in advance of

21:33March as Kelly noted.

21:35Um,

21:37so

21:39any other topics? Those I mean again I'm

21:42not looking to grow the list but I just

21:44want to make those are the ones that

21:45came to mind for me.

21:47>> So I know um I'm just so that's the

21:50schools but for the like the DPW

21:52construction [clears throat]

21:54>> the override are you sort of having one

21:56person from a committee sort of take the

21:58lead on one of those and then come back

22:00and do that is how you're envisioning so

22:02that as well. Well, I'm not sure

22:04honestly. The schools seem to be the

22:06easiest cuz it's someone that there's a

22:08someone we can work with. Um, I think we

22:11may lean on on the manager's office. The

22:15the truth is I I I don't probably stay

22:18on top of every meeting, but I know we

22:21are moving forward with the municipal

22:23building in terms of there's a committee

22:26just having a quick having it on the

22:28agenda where someone can say, you know,

22:31if we're not able to watch that

22:32particular meeting of that week, I don't

22:34even know how often they meet to be

22:35honest with you, but if someone could

22:38report back or you know, we do it's a

22:41good idea actually, you know, if someone

22:43wants to take the lead on that and

22:45attend the meetings and just say, "Hey,

22:46this is their timeline,

22:48>> right?"

22:48>> Um, I think it just, you know, we're not

22:51trying to

22:53delineate,

22:55>> you know, the the intent here. I just

22:58want to be able to have an idea like

23:00what's coming, what's the managers, you

23:03know, what's the priority, you know, as

23:05we wrap up 26 and go into 27 and um be

23:10informed and then, you know, allow the

23:12community as well

23:14>> um you know, I know we have our upcoming

23:17um fall town meeting or late fall, I

23:21think last last meeting, correct me if

23:23I'm wrong, Kevin, we're not going to

23:25have any financials on that at all

23:27right.

23:29>> So, um you know, [snorts]

23:32wherever these conversations take us can

23:34dictate, you know, I I kind I'm, you

23:37know, kind of organically, like I said

23:38earlier, see where it goes. Um you know,

23:41do not a point. Does anyone want to

23:43volunteer to say, "Hey, this is what I'm

23:45hearing. This is what's coming out." Um

23:48that's my mindset. I feel like I'm

23:51seeing everyone shake their heads in

23:52agreement. Um I don't want to belabor

23:55the point. Um, do you want to keep it at

23:58at those four now?

24:00>> I would keep it.

24:01>> Let's see how it goes with those four.

24:02>> Yeah. Yeah. Because they're high level

24:04enough,

24:04>> right?

24:05>> Um, you know, it's the first time in my

24:07journey here where Vicram kind of it got

24:10me thinking it's like

24:11>> I don't ever recall having to um vote

24:14someone to go join another committee.

24:17Um, you know, I've heard in the past

24:19too, right? We've got to be sensitive

24:20that finance committee members

24:23can't navigate elsewhere on other

24:25meetings. I I don't know how strict that

24:27is, but um obviously we did it vicram at

24:31their request. So I'd say this is the

24:33framework. We got four. They're pretty

24:35high visible topics in town.

24:37>> Um we'll have a better pulse on them.

24:39And then as we move forward and

24:42questions arise to Jean's point, hey,

24:44you know, it' be nice to know about

24:45this, we can ask so and so to take that

24:48away to then there.

24:49>> Mhm.

24:50>> Um assuming everyone's on board and

24:53including the folks we'll reach out to,

24:54>> right?

24:56>> All right. Anything else on that?

24:58>> We're good.

24:59>> So next steps.

25:01>> So next steps is I'll work with Alex on

25:03the agenda for for November's meeting.

25:06Okay.

25:06>> Um one is always called to order. two

25:09will be this update section with these

25:11four topics. Um within that I will reach

25:15out to the school folks and see if we

25:17can connect or I can connect with them

25:19and report back that they're you know

25:21I'd be interested in their take as well

25:24you know um and then we can talk about

25:29um if there's anything tangible that

25:31comes between now and then with um you

25:34know it's a little early for budget

25:35season right I mean that's more November

25:37December

25:39um that they're on there that we can

25:40start poking holes in or asking

25:42questions and then maybe that becomes a

25:44meeting of or a sub committee of one or

25:47two. That's my mindset.

25:49>> That's fine.

25:50>> Okay.

25:52All right. Moving on. Number uh 3C

25:56reviewed draft special town meeting

25:59warrant.

26:01>> All right. Please

26:02>> I can walk through what we know right

26:04now for the warrant. So the select board

26:07uh we gave them a high level overview at

26:10their meeting on Tuesday. There's

26:11currently five warrant articles. Uh the

26:14first is uh request for special

26:18legislation.

26:20Um

26:23the intent of the special legislation is

26:25to exempt the positions of deputy chief

26:28and captains within the police

26:30department from civil service. So we

26:33remain a civil service community under

26:36the civil service law which is chapter

26:3831 of the Massachusetts general laws. So

26:41by default every position unless

26:43exempted through uh special legislation

26:46within police and fire um are within

26:49civil service. Um, as you'll recall, we

26:52recently uh funded the rank of captain

26:55at the annual town meeting in May. And

26:57we've been through kind of planning and

27:00working with the unions

27:02and um come to the conclusion that we

27:06would like to have them outside of civil

27:08service, which um to date the unions and

27:11I don't expect any changes support. And

27:14then since captains would be out of the

27:16union and since we have a deputy fire

27:19chief position who or not out of the

27:21union um out of civil service since

27:23captains would be out of civil service

27:26and we have a rank of deputy chief

27:27within the fire department that's

27:28outside of civil service we would also

27:30remove the deputy police chief if we

27:33ever move forward with the creation of

27:35such position which I assume eventually

27:38we will. Um, so it would be opportunist

27:41opportunistic for the deputy chief, but

27:44you know the and while we're getting the

27:46captains out at the same time. So that's

27:48special legislation that would need to

27:49be approved through the general court.

27:55The second article is also

27:58um civil service related.

28:00In 2001 at the annual town meeting, the

28:04town accepted a specific um option under

28:09the civil service law, section 58A,

28:14which establishes a maximum age

28:17restriction of 32 years for the original

28:20appointment to the position of a

28:22firefighter, police officer. So

28:24basically, if you're

28:26over 32 years old, you cannot be

28:30appointed as a police or firefighter for

28:32the first time in any civil service

28:34community. Um,

28:37not really clear what the purpose was in

28:402001. I've heard some anecdotal things

28:42about

28:44um age of officers trying to hold on too

28:49long as they get up in age and trying to

28:52meet their retirement um numbers. Um but

28:55what we're facing right now which we

28:57think uh supersedes any of that is we're

29:01having trouble recruiting and um

29:05specifically within police or excuse me

29:07specifically in the fire department as

29:09we look to stand up an ambulance service

29:13and we need uh well tenured people the

29:16first day on the job. Um, if someone's

29:19not in another civil service community,

29:21but they're 33 years old and they've

29:24worked for UMass for the last 15 years,

29:26we wouldn't be able to hire them into

29:28our system. So, we're looking to rescend

29:30that authorization from 2001 to accept

29:33that general law. We'd no longer be

29:35subject to it, and we'd be able to make

29:38hiring decisions uh excluding age as a

29:42basis, as a restriction.

29:45So those are kind of two personnel

29:48related matters and maybe I'll just stop

29:49there to see if there's any questions

29:51through the chair. Dennis,

29:54>> what is the benefit of pulling those

29:56positions out of civil service? How does

29:58that benefit the town?

30:00>> It's really um

30:02recruitment and promotion. How you

30:04select the the people into the

30:07positions. Um if you're in civil

30:10service, use a bubble test. Who's ever

30:12the highest on the test? If they're in

30:14the top three,

30:15um, you have to select from those three

30:17people. If they're outside of it, you

30:19use more of a business-based approach,

30:22an assessment center, or just a straight

30:24business interview to make those

30:26selections.

30:30>> Uh, for the age, are we putting a new

30:32age or no age at all for hires?

30:35>> Um, the only way to put an age outside

30:37of 32 would be special legislation, and

30:39we don't want to wait for that. So,

30:41we're just eliminating any maximum major

30:44requirement.

30:44>> And how many years before they can do a

30:46retirement for a fireman replacement?

30:48>> So, they're um [clears throat] it

30:51depends, but it's uh you can if you have

30:55the years, you can retire at 55 with a

30:57full pension in police and fire. Anyone

30:59in group four,

31:02>> is it 20 years at 55?

31:05>> Um it's more than 20 years now. I think

31:08it's like 24 years or something like

31:10that at 55.

31:12>> There's no maximum age. They can go

31:13forever.

31:14>> There is a maximum age for um both

31:17police and fire. Do you know what it is?

31:18>> 65.

31:19>> 65.

31:20>> Oh, okay. Thank you. [clears throat]

31:23>> He he answered my question, but I just

31:25do one one followup. if they stay on or

31:29they still increase their retirement

31:32with years of service

31:35>> to a certain extent. They can never

31:36exceed 80% of their top three or five

31:40years depending on whenever they're

31:41hired and what their rules are, but it

31:43doesn't ever go above 80%.

31:46But if they're say if they're if they

31:49don't have the years of service and they

31:50stay until they're 56, they are earning

31:54closer to that 80%. But they'll never

31:57you'll never go above it.

32:00>> One followup, and this is something that

32:01happened on our the last job I was on,

32:04we had age problems where they made

32:06waiverss for people. They came on, but

32:08they couldn't get their time in for

32:09retirement. Does that matter at all?

32:11Like if they go to 65 but they came on

32:13at 50,

32:15>> they don't get any retirement. Correct.

32:17>> They need 10 years to be vested.

32:19>> Okay. But they wouldn't get there's no

32:22special. It's not they're not because if

32:24they go to 65 and that's the age, they

32:26don't automatically get any additional

32:28thing. Okay.

32:31>> Kelly,

32:32>> one followup question just back on the

32:34the civil service exemption for the

32:36three police positions. That's

32:38specifically about the position,

32:40correct? There could be somebody that's

32:42currently in a civil service-based

32:44position that could interview for those

32:46jobs. It just wouldn't be part of the

32:47interview and selection. So, changing

32:49that doesn't necessarily create a break

32:51where somebody would get a promotion

32:53from a civil service position into one

32:56of those within town.

32:59>> So, it would create a break. So, moving

33:02into this non-Ivil service position, you

33:04would lose your civil service status.

33:06>> Okay. Um, what an employee can do is

33:09apply for a one-year leave of absence

33:11from civil service, giving them that

33:14one-year time frame to determine if

33:16they'd like to stay in the non-ivil

33:18service position or if they'd like to

33:19move back.

33:21>> So, it's a little bit more complicated,

33:22but it doesn't bar someone from going

33:24from one position into the other.

33:26>> No.

33:27>> Okay.

33:29And last item, if someone moves out of

33:32civil service, do they are they now at

33:35at will employee?

33:37>> Yes.

33:37>> Okay. Thank you,

33:41>> Melinda.

33:41>> And so for um non- civil service

33:46employees, is the retirement age still

33:4865 or can they go beyond that?

33:50>> They're still in the same group for the

33:53retirement system. So there would be no

33:55change. It would be 65 years old. Thank

33:58you.

34:02>> Have we given any thought to

34:06getting out of civil service altogether?

34:10There's been a lot of banter about that

34:11whether you read it or you have friends

34:13or family or police officers or

34:15firefighters. Um

34:19>> I don't know what the metrics are in

34:20mass, but is this the way of the future,

34:23do you think, or is it still a

34:25developing story?

34:26It's still a developing story.

34:28Shrewsbury has taken a step on both

34:30police and fire moving into a new hybrid

34:34model where we're able to hire 50% of

34:36our employees through what they call the

34:39local register which is, you know,

34:42advertising a position like you would

34:44for any other position in town on the

34:48town website. Um, we have a memorandum

34:50of understanding with the state of

34:52Massachusetts and at the end of a 5-year

34:55period, we need to be equal with the

34:57amount of hires that we've made through

34:59the local register and the amount of

35:01hires that we've made through civil

35:02service. When you look at the startup of

35:06our new ambulance system, uh, we pulled

35:09a civil service list. I think we had one

35:12paramedic sign. So, it it's going to be

35:15very challenging to be equal at the end

35:18of the five-year period if we need to be

35:20hiring paramedics and experienced

35:23paramedics.

35:25>> Okay.

35:27Can I do one followup on this? On the

35:29paramedic, are we offering any

35:32incentives to EMTs to come aboard with

35:36some type of financial aid to become a

35:38paramedic?

35:40So, we are offering incentives for

35:43people who are currently licensed um and

35:46people we are offering incentives for

35:48people who are coming on who are EMTs

35:51and who are EMT paramedics to try to

35:53incentivize those very qualified people

35:55to join the town of Shrewsbury because

35:57we need qualified paramedics to start up

36:00our service. and we're incentivizing our

36:03existing staff as well um through

36:07stipens. And then we are offering to

36:10send two existing employees every year

36:14so long as there's funding to become

36:17certified as a EMT basic or an EMT

36:20paramedic. So we have a few different

36:22lenses that we're incentivizing

36:24qualified people to come to Shrewsbury

36:26and our existing staff to become

36:29qualified to work the ambulance. Yeah.

36:31So, theoretically, you can be all ready

36:34to go and not be able to go.

36:37>> That's basically what it's going to boil

36:39down to. But you've got to have the

36:41paramedics.

36:41>> That's right. [snorts]

36:42>> They've got to be on board. Uh if you're

36:44going to operate

36:46>> yourself. So, is there any way any we

36:50spent this money, we got the EMTs in

36:53place, we're ready to go that we can

36:55swap off with people from UMass that

36:59with their paramedics and things. So, we

37:01haven't got an ambulance and EMTs just

37:04sitting there.

37:06>> Yeah, we I mean we don't have to run the

37:08ambulance 247 to start with. So, we

37:11could, you know, run it just daytime or

37:13nighttime hours. you know, we are having

37:16our first operations meeting with UMass

37:18at the beginning of November. Um, I

37:21think things will get better as we um

37:23kind of progress in our recruitment and

37:26and use the hybrid model and um try to

37:30recruit folks in um as things kind of

37:33clear up. It was that that first list we

37:35got was not desirable, but it's evolved.

37:38Right.

37:38>> Right. on our local list. We have a rich

37:42candidate pool and we're pursuing

37:44interviews.

37:45>> So that would be the the non-ivil

37:47service list if you want to call it

37:48that.

37:49>> I do want to just follow up. Okay.

37:51>> How about the administration side of it?

37:55>> Have you are you recruiting people now?

37:58>> We we've um promoted from within. So,

38:03um, Lieutenant Adam Towner is now

38:05Captain Towner and he's the, uh, EMS

38:08coordinator for

38:09>> I mean, a little bit below that level,

38:12the people that are going to send out

38:14those bills and get us the

38:16reimbursement.

38:17>> We're going to hire that externally.

38:19We're going to contract that all out.

38:20>> Oh, you're going to contract that out?

38:22>> Yeah.

38:23>> Because that's the key to the whole

38:25thing,

38:25>> right? is the

38:26>> is is the billing to get it out there

38:28and get the reimbursement and the

38:30payback on there.

38:33>> Thank you.

38:35>> One question. It's probably more

38:37operational than you'd want to answer,

38:39but what about people that go out and

38:41don't have insurance and can't pay? Um

38:46with do we do collections? What do we

38:48>> We'll set rules with um our collection

38:52company 30 6090 and what the procedures

38:55are and um our budget estimates all

38:59build in you know loss and uncollectible

39:03and things like that.

39:03>> What was that estimate roughly?

39:06>> Um I I I can't remember. I want to say

39:08off the top of my head it was around 15%

39:10or something like that. Yeah.

39:16Just one last question for me on this.

39:18So, [clears throat] it's interesting

39:20that the 50/50 is is is noteworthy. I'm

39:24assuming Kevin or is the police chief

39:27and fire chief are they advocating to

39:31>> go this route?

39:32>> Yeah, absolutely.

39:33>> Get away from that that

39:35>> old model. Um

39:38>> well yeah and the you know to your

39:39original question it is definitely

39:41evolving story and it um

39:44there's some risk on the other side um

39:46because you um you see a lot more

39:51transitions among departments.

39:54So if you put yourself in the pool with

39:56non-ivil service um departments then you

40:00get you have a lot more movement of

40:02patrol officers you know between

40:05departments and you know don't get that

40:07cohesion and longevity

40:09>> that you tend to have a little more of

40:11within civil service.

40:13>> Okay.

40:15>> All righty. So

40:18those were the So right now we're

40:20looking at two personnel articles and I

40:23think you said at our last meeting we'll

40:24have a handful of

40:26>> Yeah. So I can go through those. Sorry.

40:28So no worries. I just wanted to pause.

40:30So since those two were so similar.

40:32>> Okay.

40:32>> Um so the next two are zoning based

40:34articles. The first one is to

40:38um

40:40update our zoning bylaw related to uh

40:43aviation facilities and unmanned aerial

40:45systems. So, this is our uh update of

40:48our bylaws to regulate where drone

40:51launching facilities could be located

40:53within the community. There's a lot of

40:55press activity on this right now. Uh

40:57we've been working closely with the town

40:59of Westboro and both the state and

41:02federal delegations. Now, you may have

41:04seen yesterday um both state senators

41:07and congressman McGovern and uh Congress

41:12uh Tumi have both uh signed off on or

41:16all four of them signed off on a letter

41:17requesting that the FAA

41:20uh do a sightspecific review of the

41:22Westboroough facility where the drones

41:24that would be coming into Shrewsbury

41:25come from. um that's in response to the

41:28FAA kind of issuing a blanket license to

41:30Amazon to operate anywhere in the United

41:32States without any further review or

41:34specific requirement. So um I'm not sure

41:37if it's going to be effective, but um

41:39there was an article in the Globe about

41:40that as as well yesterday. So it's this

41:43is our work at um saying, okay, we know

41:46we can't may not be able to regulate

41:49them when they're in the air. That's the

41:50FAA, but where would they be able to

41:52launch from in Shrewsbury? you know, we

41:54have other logistics facilities. Um,

41:57where will this technology go? Right?

41:59We're all guessing at that. If you know,

42:01Door Dash and smaller delivery companies

42:04who want to use this technology as well

42:05are not using 5 foot x 5 foot drones

42:08like Amazon does, like where, you know,

42:10where can they go from and and what how

42:13does that impact life from Shrewsbury?

42:14So, that's what we're trying to regulate

42:16through this article. Still work in

42:18progress. Uh, we have a draft. It's a

42:20council right now and we're still really

42:22working on it. The public hearings for

42:24both of these articles will be on

42:26November 4th in front of the planning

42:28board.

42:31Um and then the second zoning article is

42:33updating our bylaws related to um

42:38electronic data storage facilities

42:40commonly known as data centers. So we

42:42have computer data storage centers as a

42:46use now within our zoning bylaw and we

42:49would just look to update them to really

42:51deal with the challenges of a modern

42:53data center which is a lot of utility

42:56consumption, electric consumption, water

42:58consumption and and noise of course. So

43:02um we're updating our our bylaws here uh

43:05for that purpose. So those are the two

43:07zoning bylaws.

43:12Is that it? So,

43:13>> uh, there's one more article. Yeah, one

43:15more article. So, just, um, so we have

43:1815 Maple Avenue. That's the Empire Dry

43:21Cleaner Building. It was taken by tax

43:22title purposes. And so, when land comes

43:24in and is taken by tax title, it's under

43:26the care, custody, and control of uh,

43:28the tax title custodian who is the

43:30treasurer collector. And um while it has

43:34that designation, the the treasury

43:36collector has the authority to dispose

43:38of that property to recoup those costs.

43:40So we know we're not going to sell it.

43:42Uh that was a vote of the select board.

43:44So what we do with this article was

43:46designated as general municipal. That

43:48means first and foremost that if the

43:52town were to sell it in the future, it'd

43:53have to go back to town meeting for

43:55approval. Um, and second, it protects

43:57our interest in that property a little

43:59bit more from things like adverse

44:01possession than it would be if it's just

44:02sitting under a tax title designation.

44:05So that's that's the two primary reasons

44:08that we would uh offer that article.

44:10>> Okay.

44:12>> Jean,

44:13>> could I ask a question? And it's it's

44:15not there uh what you just discussed for

44:18this special town meeting. We normally

44:21have reports

44:24>> to the town meeting.

44:25>> Mhm. And I'm wondering if it's about

44:26time for Selco to report

44:29at least where they stand. I mean, we've

44:32given town land to them.

44:34>> They've started, you know, reviewing it.

44:37There's a little earth movement.

44:40>> They've done some purchasing of

44:41additional property.

44:43>> But everybody is asking the question,

44:46well, what's happening? What are they

44:47doing? You think it's time to just a

44:50simple general report that you know

44:53we've run into a few little problems

44:55here and there or

44:57>> Yeah.

44:57>> and explain it to the town meeting or

44:59have people just forgot about it?

45:01>> I can certainly ask them. Um I know that

45:05they paused their project for six months

45:09um back in midsummer or early summer. So

45:11I'd have I can check in on that. Um, we

45:14can certainly get this committee an

45:15update and report on it as well, but um,

45:18I think they're really just struggling

45:20with the cost of everything right now.

45:21>> No, I I completely understand that, but

45:23I I just think it's owed to the town

45:26meeting members

45:27>> or the town itself. I mean, we've given

45:30land

45:31>> to an organization within the

45:33organization and what progress or just a

45:36little date

45:38>> what's going on.

45:39>> Okay,

45:40>> that's let me we can we can work on

45:42that. Yep.

45:46>> So, we're at seven, Kevin. Seven

45:48articles.

45:49>> No, five total.

45:50>> Oh, five total.

45:51>> Yep. Just the five.

45:52>> Oh, okay. Um, do you see that growing or

45:55it could?

45:56>> No, I don't. No,

45:57>> I think it's it's pretty standard.

45:59>> Okay.

45:59>> Or pretty excuse me, pretty locked in.

46:01>> Any other questions on on that update?

46:04No. Oh, I'll end

46:05>> on the uh zoning related articles that

46:08are coming up, you know, especially for

46:10aviation. I know our police department

46:12has you know couple of drones.

46:16>> Are there any exception clause?

46:17>> Yeah. So municipal use would be exempted

46:20out you know and public safety use would

46:23be exempted. So there are exemptions.

46:25This is really regulating

46:27um commercial drone activity within the

46:30community.

46:31>> Okay. And then regarding the data

46:33center, you know, like are we putting

46:35some kind of a minimum maximum capacity

46:38like what kind of

46:39>> things we are kind of putting?

46:40>> Yeah. So these these zoning bylaws are

46:43focusing on um electricity consumption

46:46and other utility consumptions.

46:48>> I do have to say like uh we we know

46:51rather large facilities could still be

46:53cited in Shrewsbury, but what they call

46:55these hyper facilities that you see out

46:57in the Midwest, they take a thousand

46:59acres. So, like we're not really worried

47:01about anything like that. You know, we

47:03know it's New England and that land

47:04doesn't exist anymore, but um something

47:07still quite large, you know, of a

47:09warehouse size that we're seeing in the

47:10community could be possible and and

47:12that's kind of what we're focused on,

47:14but it will be like tiered. So, the

47:17state has um data centers tiered below

47:2115 megawws and above 15 megawws. So, I

47:24mean, I think we'll be pretty similar in

47:25those designations.

47:27>> Thank you.

47:28I just do want we've still got a a

47:31normal public hearing on the 19th of

47:33November.

47:34>> That's right.

47:34>> On these others.

47:35>> Yeah. And we'll be very thorough and

47:37give you all [clears throat] the details

47:39at that time.

47:41>> I think that's a a great thing that can

47:43puts out [cough]

47:44all [clears throat] these dates

47:46>> on there. I think that's something

47:48>> that uh is very helpful.

47:51>> Thank you.

47:54>> Okay. On that note, we can go to uh

47:56agendum four. just reviewing the meeting

47:58schedule. Um

48:01I think we we set the framework last

48:03meeting. Jean just touched on the 19th.

48:05Um

48:08so that'll be a public hearing. Um then

48:10we're on again in December 7th. So

48:13that'll most likely because of the

48:14minimum amount of articles that'll be a

48:16one hopefully just one night, right?

48:18Yes, sir.

48:18>> Um

48:19>> no predictions.

48:20>> I understand. [laughter]

48:21>> Talking drones.

48:24>> Uh yeah.

48:26and then the 17th and uh 21st of January

48:29into the new year. Um any comments or

48:33concerns, questions there?

48:35>> Okay, we're going to head to item five,

48:37other business. We kind of touched on

48:39that earlier. I don't know if any folks

48:41have anything else they'd like to add.

48:42>> Did Did you get a chance to run the open

48:44obligation report

48:47that we talked about the last meeting?

48:48>> Oh, the warrant articles.

48:51>> I will have that for your next meeting.

48:53Yeah, I mean you Yeah, because just just

48:55to see what money we have out there

48:56because I know like the DPW has a lot of

48:57money, but I don't know if that's going

48:58to be

49:00>> as long as it's ongoing, it's it's a

49:02valid obligation.

49:03>> Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.

49:05>> Oh, thank you.

49:08>> Anything [snorts] else there? Well, from

49:11correspondence, I'll take uh number six

49:13is a

49:15motion to adjurnn.

49:17>> So moved. A motion to adjurnn.

49:20>> Second.

49:20>> All those in favor? Hi,

49:24>> we are returned. Thank you very much.