2026-10-13 - Common Council Public Works Committee

06:47There's two issues here, the salt and

06:49the fuel, right?

06:51>> Yes.

06:52>> And then um

06:54So, if you can just walk me

06:56through, or at least somebody watching,

06:58walk us through

07:00um [snorts]

07:01what this is about, you know, in terms

07:04of

07:06getting the salt, let's let's do the

07:08salt first. Getting the salt and you got

07:10all these organizations that are coming

07:12to you

07:13to get salt from you.

07:15>> Yeah, so we have uh agreements with uh

07:18Centro

07:20um SUNY Upstate

07:22>> Mhm.

07:24And then uh um

07:24>> and Syracuse Housing for our salt.

07:28Um so, those agreements uh they come and

07:31get salt from us

07:32throughout the winter winter months.

07:35Um

07:36and then on a separate uh

07:39contract, we We

07:40uh

07:42Onondaga County

07:43uh for fuel.

07:45>> Mhm.

07:46>> We also have Syracuse City School

07:48District uh

07:50for fuel.

07:50>> Yeah.

07:52>> And we have uh Syracuse Housing for

07:54fuel.

07:56So, those are the six things that we uh

07:58provide to some of our local entities.

08:03>> So, and I guess I guess this is this

08:05contract has been on for a while.

08:07>> Yeah, since I've been here.

08:09>> Yeah, right.

08:10So,

08:12why are these organizations coming to us

08:14directly? Is there Is there reason why

08:16they buy from us as opposed to going to

08:18the other vendors?

08:20>> Uh

08:20I couldn't really tell you that. Uh it's

08:23just like I said, it's always been that

08:24way since I've been here. Uh

08:27I'm not sure when the agreement start

08:29started, but that's been the agreement

08:31since I've since I've took office.

08:33>> Okay, so I I I the other piece that I

08:36really want to know is the

08:39when we do this,

08:40you know, how much

08:42manpower goes into it in term of the

08:44cost to to us from the employee side.

08:48>> So, fuel is not much, right? They go up

08:50and pump their own fuel. So, uh I

08:53believe it's 6 cents a gallon for

08:55administration fees for

08:58fuel.

08:58>> Okay.

08:59>> Uh

08:59>> Right, I see that. 6% and then 5%

09:01administrative. Yeah.

09:02>> Yeah, and then $5 for salt. The salt is

09:05really not a big deal as well. We have a

09:07salt dome operator

09:10who sits up there and provides us DPW

09:13with salt. So,

09:15once they once uh entity comes in and

09:17wants salt, they'll load them up.

09:19They'll write out a ticket, see what,

09:21you know, they'll get weighed.

09:23Um

09:24we already pre- determine the uh width

09:27and uh depth of the truck that they

09:30bring, and um we incorporate that into a

09:33cost. They fill out a form.

09:35We get it signed by our supervisor

09:37that's on hand, and then they go on

09:39their way.

09:40>> What about the revenue side? It it it's

09:43What about what what we put in

09:45uh in term of what it cost the city

09:48versus what the city

09:51sell?

09:53To to the vendors.

09:54>> Yeah, so some of the numbers that I did

09:57get from Jenna who couldn't be here. Uh

09:59she's ill today.

10:02Um

10:03I know we spent last year on fuel

10:07about 1.2 for unleaded, 1.2 million,

10:10and about 630,000

10:13for diesel. So, about 1.8 last year.

10:17Not Excuse me, not last year. Uh 2024.

10:21And then last year, 2025, we spent 1.5

10:25on unleaded,

10:26997,000

10:28on diesel. So, about 2.5 million on

10:32total fuel last year.

10:34>> About 2025.

10:36Right.

10:37Okay, so

10:39So, salt

10:41uh So, that's that's that's what we

10:43spend to get

10:44>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

10:45>> So, as this So, so if if

10:49if these three vendors are coming in and

10:52they are pumping as well, they are

10:53taking.

10:54>> Yeah.

10:54>> How much are we generating from what

10:57they are buying?

10:59>> Not much.

11:01No, not much.

11:02I believe the county uh total revenue

11:04was about $2,400.

11:06>> $2,400?

11:08>> Yeah, I believe so.

11:09>> these vendor these vendors are coming to

11:12to our city, pumping gas, and and

11:14leaving. And basically it cost cost cost

11:17them nothing.

11:17>> Yeah, that don't I don't think they got

11:20into this to uh

11:23to make a uh a lot a profit per se.

11:26Uh

11:28So, I I guess I can't uh speak for the

11:30agreement that happened over the years,

11:32but um

11:34yeah, from my

11:35>> Do Do we know what we get in exchange to

11:37this because fuel is so expensive

11:39country?

11:40>> So, we do get

11:41>> What What are we getting in in trade to

11:43say, "Okay, we are spending one 2.5

11:46million dollars

11:47>> Yes.

11:47>> on a fuel, we have three organization

11:50that are coming in

11:52uh and pumping and and leaving?

11:55And

11:57what's what's what's the trade?

12:00Or we don't know yet.

12:02>> I don't have a I

12:04trade per se central I I don't think

12:07they would give us anything in return.

12:09>> Okay.

12:10>> Not to put any slight on central, but uh

12:13uh Circa's house in the same way

12:15um

12:16um and the school district.

12:19That those are talks that I think are

12:21being had had behind the scenes. I think

12:24they should be given a little more, but

12:26that's just my personal opinion, not

12:28uh the opinion of the administration.

12:30So.

12:31>> Mhm. Mhm. Okay.

12:33Okay. I I This is interesting.

12:35Yeah.

12:36It's interesting. So So, I I take with

12:38the fuel being like that, the salt is

12:40the same way, right?

12:42I mean I mean there is what? Uh a salt

12:4475

12:46So, salt

12:47>> For salt is 70 per ton. 70 $70 and 80s

12:5185 cents per a ton, right? And then five

12:55$5 per ton administrative fee. So, at

12:58least there's there's a payment there,

13:01>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

13:01>> There's a payment. There There's

13:02something coming in, right? But I guess

13:04my question is if they are pumping this

13:06much, how much ton do they take? How

13:09much do we put in to make sure

13:12I mean I how much do we spend to buy?

13:15And

13:16and are we breaking even? Because in

13:17government, we don't make profit, but we

13:19got to break even,

13:20right? Otherwise, it make right?

13:22>> I I I believe whatever we pay, we charge

13:26like I said 5 cent per gallon on top of

13:30that for an admin fee. So, we do make

13:33more than what we put in.

13:35Um so, if the cost goes up fuel,

13:38>> we charge 5 cents per gallon more

13:41than the cost that actually went up. So,

13:43we do get a little bit there. Um salt's

13:46the same way. Cost rise, then we charge

13:48more. So, it's it's

13:51it's not really apples to apples. Not

13:53saying that uh we want to get into this

13:55to um

13:56make a profit, but I think, like I said,

13:59my personal opinion,

14:00I think we should be charging a little

14:02more than we do.

14:04Um

14:04but, like I said, I'll leave that up to

14:07uh finance and administration.

14:08>> And and really, part part of why I

14:10really want to look at this is is

14:12everything is rising around us.

14:13>> Yes.

14:14>> The cost is going up,

14:15>> Right.

14:15>> Yes.

14:16>> And and sometime as a city we shoot

14:18ourself in the foot because we we stay

14:21the same while everything else is just

14:23climbing climb climbing, and then I

14:26agree. Sometime we don't catch up

14:29to what we need to catch up to

14:31make what we need to make. Not to make

14:33profit, as we keep saying,

14:35but at least

14:36to mitigate the cost of what we are

14:39putting up front, right?

14:40>> Yeah.

14:41>> Um so, I I I think we should we should

14:43really look at these contracts and see

14:46where we are, you know, with the same

14:48with the same, you know,

14:50the area cost and what we are charging

14:54and

14:55>> I agree I agree wholeheartedly. I think

14:57that we should look at not just cost,

14:59but services as well. Like

15:01>> um

15:02you know, if

15:04like I said, my personal opinion,

15:05>> Yeah.

15:06>> I think the school district should, you

15:08know,

15:09put in a little more. Like and then I'm

15:10not saying money-wise, but maybe, you

15:12know, it could be services, plowing

15:14around some of the city schools, um

15:17things like that, of that nature. I

15:18don't want to

15:19get here and bash the city school

15:21district. no,

15:21>> it's just it's it's what it is.

15:23>> Yeah. Yeah.

15:24>> It's what it is.

15:25>> So, I I think I you know you know I have

15:28questions here. I even had a question of

15:31asking if if they are coming and fueling

15:34and leaving. For example, the smallest

15:36organization that Evan has got something

15:38for us?

15:42>> Yeah. Good morning, counselor. Um Evan

15:44Loving, budget director. Just wanted to

15:45add quickly to what the commissioner was

15:47saying. So, in the budget for this year,

15:49we did budget uh a little more than

15:51$650,000

15:53from outside agency fees. So, like we're

15:55obviously charging for the cost of fuel

15:56and we're charging an administrative

15:57fee.

15:58These things aren't um millions of

16:00dollars, but they're, you know, in the

16:02six figures. The other thing I'll add is

16:04that uh one of the things that we've

16:05been talking about is as we look at

16:07capital planning, if we're going to have

16:09these agreements long-term, um the you

16:13know, should we be talking to our

16:14partners and looking for contributions

16:15on the capital side as well? Like if

16:17we're going to need a new fuel island,

16:18if that's a fuel island that we're going

16:20to be sharing, then, you know, where how

16:22should we balance those costs? So, those

16:23are the thing conversations that we are

16:25having. Um so, I just want to make it

16:27clear that, you know, it's not like

16:29the this is the way things have been

16:30done and we are taking a fresh look at

16:32it and see whether or not it's the way

16:33we want to be doing things in the

16:34future.

16:35>> Yeah. Yeah. And absolutely. And and

16:38small things, we start We got to start

16:40somewhere, right?

16:41>> Yeah.

16:41>> And I think this this it's

16:43very important that we look at this

16:45contract very closely.

16:47>> I agree.

16:47>> And um

16:49so, we we we're going to flush them out

16:51and really cuz it it looks like we have

16:541-year, 4-year renewal, right? And then

16:57in 4 years, we could be

16:59Look, it it jumped from 1.8 in 2024 to

17:032.5.

17:04>> Yeah. That's $700,000.

17:06>> Cost rise. Fuel

17:08>> That is $700,000 that that that, you

17:11know, in 2020

17:132027, it might it might double, you

17:16know? And then then then they're paying

17:18nothing and we are putting the pumping

17:20it in so we can support them. It's It's

17:23I think something got to give.

17:25Something got to give.

17:26>> I agree.

17:27>> So, I I think if

17:28not to

17:30uh further any time

17:32or take any more time, I think we got to

17:34just look at these contracts and

17:37um

17:38see where we can correct them

17:40before we move forward with them.

17:43Um

17:44cuz I I don't I don't think uh

17:48I don't think we are

17:50doing ourselves a favor by signing off

17:52signing on to this like this.

17:54It's not uh and it's our job as

17:57counselors to make sure

17:59I I guess it is

18:00>> responsibility is exercised well.

18:02>> I agree with you, counselor.

18:03>> Yeah.

18:04All right.

18:06So,

18:07counselor,

18:07>> I apologize, but

18:08>> we we were about to wrap it up. You got

18:10to be You got to be

18:12pressing matter question.

18:14>> Well,

18:15are we talking about the days?

18:17>> Yeah, we are talking about the fuel and

18:20the salt.

18:20>> Mhm.

18:21>> uh contracts.

18:22>> The fuels and the salt contracts.

18:23>> Yeah, that's it.

18:23>> Okay. So,

18:25sorry. Michelle, I understand that you

18:27had said that we were not in any danger

18:29of running out of

18:31road salt this year. I think a lot of us

18:34were still very scarred by the memory of

18:36the universal shortage of road salt

18:39years ago. Um

18:40and I know that your department had also

18:42looked into alternatives. Are any of

18:44those alternatives viable into the

18:45future? Are there anything Is there

18:47anything we should be planning for? I

18:48know we have a new salt barn and that we

18:51have these partnerships that buy salt

18:53from us. So, all those structures seem

18:55to work out in terms of feasibility of

18:58road salt usage for the city for the

18:59future.

19:00>> So, we don't like I I mentioned before,

19:02we don't see

19:04uh

19:06a need uh to do anything different now.

19:10Uh we do have a different vendor from 2

19:12years ago from when we did have the

19:14shortage.

19:15It wasn't on them. It was like I said it

19:17was a nationwide shortage, but we do

19:19have a new vendor and they seem to be

19:21working very well with us.

19:23So in light of these

19:26small contracts that we have with these

19:28entities, we don't have a we don't see a

19:30problem.

19:32>> And I know that part of our climate

19:34sustainability plan is the concept of

19:36switching over fleet vehicles to

19:38alternative sources. Now you have heavy

19:40use vehicles, so likely those would not

19:42be alternative or electric.

19:46>> No.

19:47>> No.

19:47>> No.

19:48>> Okay.

19:48>> I'm sorry.

19:49>> But are we having any sort of concern

19:52about fuel pricing even in our bulk

19:54pricing?

19:56>> I don't see a concern at all as of right

19:58now.

20:00Like the counselor said before, we're

20:02going to look at these other entities

20:04and see if we can

20:06as you say flush out some of the

20:08the cost, but we don't we don't see any

20:11problems.

20:13>> Is there anything that you haven't been

20:14able to to

20:18buy off of the state's

20:20vendor list or anything else in terms of

20:22equipment usage that you're having

20:24difficulty obtaining?

20:25>> No, not to my knowledge.

20:27Our our fleet manager Jeff Forgola is

20:30great at finding unique things and

20:34trying to get every department what they

20:36need.

20:37So I haven't ran into any problems so

20:40far.

20:43>> What about is there a substitute for

20:45salt?

20:46Say we ran out of salt and we were

20:48struggling.

20:50Does that do we just leave the ice to

20:51melt or are there other mechanisms?

20:53>> There's other substitutes. We don't want

20:55to get into those, but if we had to

20:57there's you can use sand, people use

21:00sand, you can use brine.

21:03There's other things that we could use

21:05if we did uh

21:08come into a bind. We do have our uh

21:10treated salt that we get uh

21:13on a regular, which is great for

21:16uh lower temperatures. So, we use that

21:17as well, so.

21:19>> Okay. So, so So, what what would be an

21:21advantage of a salt over over a sand? Is

21:24it the quick

21:26>> I actually think that the the brine is

21:28the more universally utilized

21:30alternative, right? It's an industrial

21:32byproduct byproduct of pickling.

21:34>> So, brine is great, but you know, you

21:36got to equip trucks to outfit the brine,

21:39so right now

21:41>> It's a different distribution method

21:42than the salt.

21:42>> Yes.

21:43>> Which would require new

21:44>> New equipment, new things. Yeah, so it's

21:47it's a little tough. I think the salts

21:49works really good when used properly

21:51um at the right times. Um we usually try

21:54to put a base layer down before we even

21:56have a storm, so when we

21:58do come through, we can scrape it up

22:00just really really well. Um so, yeah,

22:03we've been doing that for a while and

22:04it's been really working.

22:06>> Would does brine have the same corrosive

22:08impacts on vehicles as road salt?

22:11>> I wouldn't know that off the top of my

22:13head, but I know Anne, who's one of the

22:15experts, can

22:16>> Sorry, I've been jumping at the chance.

22:19Uh yeah, it's salt. It's made from salt.

22:21It is exactly the same corrosive

22:23properties. Sorry, Anne Fordock, first

22:25deputy commissioner. Um brine is

22:28uh

22:29a pretreatment.

22:30So, it is something that you need the

22:32exact right road conditions to apply

22:34onto the roads. So, if it was raining,

22:36you would not want to use brine.

22:38Um and uh the magnesium chloride treated

22:41salt that he was mentioning, we use that

22:43for lower temperatures, but obviously

22:44when we had the salt shortage, we were

22:46using any kind of salt. And sand we

22:48cannot use here because of our catch

22:50basins. Um it would load up all our

22:52catch basins.

22:53>> Okay.

22:54>> So, um you know, if you live out in

22:55Spafford or Marcellus or whatever, you

22:57could probably, you know, throw some

22:58sand down in a pinch. We we never want

23:00to do that here. It would cause a lot of

23:02problems for us.

23:05So.

23:06>> So, where do people use brine

23:07effectively?

23:08>> Um Fayetteville's been uh kind of the

23:10leader in in brine and brine production.

23:14Um you can use brine in like pre-wetting

23:16tanks on the side of the plow to help

23:19activate regular salt faster, and you

23:21can add magnesium chloride to the brine

23:25to get to that lower level temps as

23:27well, but again, that's adding equipment

23:29that that then break

23:30onto our trucks. Um but it even for

23:33Fayetteville, it is very specific road

23:35conditions for pre-treating the road.

23:38Like you know a big storm's coming, and

23:39you have the right road conditions of

23:41dry

23:42to pre-wet the roads, and it it's going

23:44to save you time

23:45uh when you're trying to then make up

23:47that time from that snowfall to get the

23:49roads

23:50roads plowed.

23:52>> And one question about plowing as

23:55addition, but it's interesting to hear

23:56that Fayetteville, right, our neighbor

23:58to the east is doing this. So, it's not

24:00just like climactically different. I was

24:02expecting you to say like Georgia, but

24:05Fayetteville does it, so it would be an

24:07option, but again, right under the right

24:09conditions or under the right per unit

24:11pricing, right? If it was exponentially

24:15less than road salt, we would want to

24:17consider whether

24:18>> Fayetteville makes it, too.

24:19>> They make it.

24:20>> Yeah.

24:20>> Okay.

24:21Interesting.

24:23Um

24:24we do

24:25have a large group of citizens who are

24:27very interested in protected bike lanes,

24:29and the consistent

24:33I don't obstacle that comes up is the

24:35idea of not being able to clear them

24:38with plows

24:40or to impact plow delivery.

24:44Do we have a solution to that?

24:49>> I mean, it's part of the road, so we're

24:50plowing it. We're pushing it back as

24:52soon as we can.

24:54>> We We preach

24:55plowing to the curb, right? So, that's

24:58our that's our motto when we plow is

25:01trying to get it to the curb.

25:03I mean, like everything, we're not 100%

25:05[clears throat]

25:06at what we do. We can get better. Um

25:08there are certain situations where we do

25:10leave a little

25:11slush there and we don't come back for a

25:14while and that kind of creates a mess

25:16for bike lanes, but we do our best.

25:19Um

25:20those guys uh work around the clock and

25:23try to get as much as they can, but uh

25:26there's also roads that we don't hit

25:28100%, so.

25:30>> Sorry, I guess to clarify my question,

25:32the obstacle to putting them in place is

25:34the idea that they would not be able to

25:35be cleared by by a plow in the event of

25:38snow, not that there's snow in the bike

25:40lanes. Right now, there's snow in the

25:41bike lanes and we have even-odd parking

25:43that continues to put cars in the bike

25:46lanes.

25:46>> Yes.

25:46>> Um

25:48if we were to have single-sided parking

25:51and a protected bike lane on one side of

25:54the street going forward, do we have a

25:56solution for clearing that in the event

25:59of snow, which I think we all understand

26:02to be an inevitability?

26:03>> So, if we had one lane, yeah, I mean, we

26:05wouldn't have to do changeovers, which

26:07would be great, but then again,

26:09it'd probably be a logistical nightmare

26:11if you parking on one side and wouldn't

26:13able to

26:14move over so we can plow the other side

26:16when you move your your car. You know,

26:18anybody sees that when your car is

26:20filled with snow and you move, you leave

26:22that

26:23what would you, you know, a trail of

26:25a mountain of snow when you brush it

26:27off, so um neighbors expect us to clear

26:30that up.

26:31Um

26:31>> In other communities, though, they have

26:32like essentially street clearing days,

26:35right? So, it's your time to move your

26:38car between midnight and

26:40you know, midnight Monday and midnight

26:42Tuesday and then that lane would get

26:45cleared by a scheduled plow or a

26:47scheduled street sweeper, essentially.

26:50So, like if it wasn't if people were

26:52digging out their cars, but snow was

26:54left behind, we could think about a grid

26:58system where people's lanes would be

27:00shifted so that they'd get the cars off

27:02the street and then

27:03be able to plow that area, right?

27:05>> Yeah, in a perfect world that'd be

27:07great. I mean, I Oswego

27:09does this very well. I mean, they

27:12have

27:13I don't I don't know what they call it,

27:14maybe a state of emergency where all

27:16vehicles get off the road and they have

27:19designated areas where they park at.

27:22Syracuse is a little tougher to do,

27:24right? I mean, we have, you know, houses

27:26that don't have

27:28driveways.

27:29You're probably miles away from a park,

27:32so you can't, you know, park there if we

27:34open it up to you.

27:36Um

27:37It's a little tougher We have a lot of

27:38sports stadiums, though.

27:39>> Yeah, I mean, that would make our lives

27:40easier and make our lives

27:43lives easier if we didn't have any

27:45obstacles, right? I mean, if we didn't

27:46have any cars

27:47>> coordinated system, right? I mean, let's

27:49be clear. When when we have the fair,

27:51people park in designated lots, and then

27:53there are shuttle bus to areas that they

27:55need to go to.

27:57Um similar things happen when there are

27:58giant concerts or when we have giant uh

28:00wonderful amazing acts like the Savannah

28:03Bananas at uh which I miss, which was so

28:05sad. [laughter]

28:07Um at the arena.

28:08>> I heard that's a good act.

28:09>> Oh, I heard it was amazing. I'm just

28:11really sad.

28:12Um but if we, you know, again, if we had

28:15a state of emergency protocol where

28:18people needed to move their cars to the

28:19nearest designated area, whether that

28:22was a sports stadium parking lot or

28:24whatever whatnot, and there were Centro

28:26buses that could shuttle them back to

28:27quadrant systems,

28:29it's not a perfect solution for every

28:31single person, but at the same time, it

28:33would help us, right, clear the streets?

28:36>> I would love it. I mean,

28:38I'm here to say put my like I said, my

28:39personal opinion, I would

28:41I would be thrilled to have that. I

28:43mean, I know our guys would be, too.

28:45When they didn't have to come to a road

28:47where it's double parked and now you're

28:50stuck there for an hour and you can't

28:52get on with your route.

28:54Um

28:55yeah, it's

28:56>> a 3:00 a.m.

28:57>> Yeah.

28:57>> wake up call with the plow honking its

28:59horn.

29:00>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I would love

29:02it if we can get that done, that'd be

29:04great.

29:06>> So, if in fact we could figure out a a

29:08system to clear the snow embankments

29:10from shoveled out cars in a way that

29:13would leave a protected bike lane able

29:15to be either plowed or shoveled, we

29:17could make that work.

29:18>> Yeah.

29:20>> Thank you.

29:20>> Commissioner, we are in October

29:23and

29:25great Syracuse weather might might bring

29:27us the

29:30>> Super snow

29:32>> I heard that before.

29:33>> maybe 2 weeks. How How many trucks

29:36do we have ready to go?

29:40>> That's a good question. Off the top of

29:42my head, I wasn't prepared for that.

29:44But I think it's 24 or 25

29:48>> Okay.

29:48>> big plows.

29:49>> Okay.

29:50>> Uh

29:51>> I would have to get that get back to you

29:52on that one with a definite but it's

29:53definitely

29:54>> But we have enough

29:56>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's the the plows

29:58aren't going to be the problem.

29:59>> Okay.

30:00It's the drivers.

30:02>> I mean, we can speak about that another

30:03time, but yeah, it's it's the drivers.

30:06>> Thank you.

30:07>> You're welcome.

30:10>> I know that the driving and the CDL

30:12licensing has been uh kind of a bugaboo

30:15for a while. It seems like it's a

30:17similar issue for a school district and

30:19for Centro buses. Everyone needs the CDL

30:21drivers. Is there any way that we could

30:24share

30:25a pool of drivers or have some sort of

30:28uh

30:30second string or drivers that are not on

30:33for Centro that day that would drive for

30:34us?

30:35>> So, it's driving a plow is is not the

30:39same as driving a bus.

30:41I don't want to minimize the efforts

30:44that our bus drivers do, but driving a

30:46plow, you should come down and

30:48be a spectator in a plow. It's

30:51it's

30:53nerve-racking. Like when you going down

30:55and it's snowing maybe an inch, an inch

30:57and a half an hour, and you got two

30:59double-parked cars, and you know you can

31:00try to get through, but

31:02you you know, you you can't see.

31:05You know, and then you got pedestrians,

31:07you got people in the road riding their

31:09little vehicle bikes. You got all these

31:11things that you have to go through your

31:13mind, and you're

31:14you're you're pretty much on a timeline,

31:16right? You don't want to spend 4 hours

31:17in a quadrant, right? Because residents

31:20will be ticked off that they did not get

31:22their driveway plowed. I mean,

31:23driveways, their road plowed. So, uh

31:26yeah, it's just different. I wish we

31:27could. I wish there was a pool where we

31:29can pick from a bunch of plow drivers

31:33that can come in season. And it's not No

31:35offense to Like I said, it's not No

31:36offense to the state or the county. It's

31:38not like

31:39those guys can put their plows down and

31:41drive straight.

31:43Don't make no turns.

31:44Maybe right turns to get on and off a

31:46street. But our our drivers

31:49we're constantly making turns

31:52and obstacles and things like that.

31:54>> Definitely sorry to interrupt you.

31:55>> No, that's all right.

31:56>> Uh there are definitely some streets

31:58that have both side parking that really

32:00are

32:01problematic.

32:02>> Yeah, go to Tip Hill.

32:05>> They're narrow. They're narrow, and they

32:07continue to be narrower with the snow

32:09being

32:09>> all this place, Hell's Kitchen, up over

32:11by Westcott. I mean, that is

32:13double-parked every day.

32:16And it's tough with students there, and

32:18it's tough. It's really tough.

32:20>> When we ask people to move their cars

32:22every day, inevitably somebody's going

32:24to forget.

32:25>> Oh, yeah.

32:26>> Right? That that seems to be

32:28if we made it a less

32:31daily transition, less than daily

32:33transition,

32:34I think people might have a better shot

32:36at remembering.

32:38>> Yeah,

32:39>> mean the sharing of drivers is

32:42great. If they didn't have to

32:45you know, be so focused every minute

32:48they are working. And then when you are

32:49sharing those the drivers

32:52you got to also do

32:54factoring the the exhaustion. And then

32:57with the exhaustion, more accidents.

32:59You know, so it's it's it's

33:02I I don't know. I I think this this may

33:03need some sort of collective

33:06brainstorming to really

33:08figure out how to get more drivers.

33:10>> I've been trying to brainstorm for 9

33:12years now. I mean this is

33:14not unique this year. We've been going

33:16through it every year and we try to give

33:19our drivers breaks in between, but snow

33:21don't stop and we're 12 hours on, 12

33:24hours off.

33:25I mean that don't leave a lot of time

33:26for sleeping and family, right? I mean

33:28those guys are exhausted and

33:30and we have a job to do and they

33:32understand.

33:33Um

33:34>> Is there a shift in were did drivers

33:37used to be allowed to leave earlier or

33:39there

33:40shift in contract in some way, shape or

33:42form?

33:42>> I I mean

33:45>> Is it sanitation?

33:47>> No. No. No.

33:48No. We uh

33:50we come in at 6:00 and

33:52stay to 6:00.

33:54It's 6:00 to 6:00 and 6:00 to 6:00.

33:56That's what we If it's snowing, we're on

33:58and

33:59that's what we do.

34:00Night and night out.

34:01>> Thank you for answering my questions.

34:02>> Yes.

34:03>> Thank you.

34:04All right, thank you very much.

34:07>> All right, Commissioner, thank you for

34:08coming. That will conclude our meeting

34:10for tonight.

34:10>> Okay.

```*