2026-10-13 - Board of Aldermen

00:34I don't know what

00:38it's not on the script. I don't know

00:40what it is though.

00:42>> Anybody on Zoom?

00:43>> It's not on. It's not on the agenda. Dr.

00:45Sullivan,

00:45>> you have it on your agenda.

00:46>> It's not about having

00:49>> So, it's just not being taken up.

00:51>> We should pass the resource. I'm going

00:52to call the regular meeting of the board

00:54to order on Tuesday, October 13th, 2026

00:58at 7:30 p.m. in the aldermanic chamber,

01:00which has been duly noticed in two

01:02places, including the city's website in

01:05accordance with the requirements of RSA

01:0791A. Tonight, the prayer will be offered

01:10by city clerk Dan Healey, and Alderman

01:12Smith will lead us in the pledge

01:13[snorts] to the flag.

01:14>> Almighty God, we have the high honor and

01:17the serious duty to manage the affairs

01:19of our beloved city. Fill us, oh God,

01:22with a spirit of unity and

01:24understanding, which enables us to face

01:26our multiple problems, with a serene

01:28mind, with justice and charity for all,

01:31so that any and all decisions made by us

01:34will always be for the betterment and

01:36greater happiness of all our fellow

01:38citizens. So help us God. Amen.

01:42I aliance to the flag of the United

01:46States of America and to the republic

01:48for which it stands. One nation under

01:51God, indivisible, with liberty and

01:54justice for all.

02:05>> Let's start the meeting by taking a roll

02:06call attendance, please.

02:08>> Alderman Clemens

02:09>> here. Alderman Cle

02:11>> here.

02:13>> Alderman Rean

02:14>> here.

02:15>> Alderwoman Smith

02:17>> here. [snorts]

02:18>> Alderman Theo

02:19>> here.

02:20>> Alderman O'Brien

02:21>> present.

02:23>> Alderman Greg

02:24>> here.

02:26>> Alderman Dow

02:27>> present.

02:28>> Alderman Sullivan

02:29>> here.

02:31>> Alderman Senate

02:32>> here.

02:33>> Alderman [clears throat]

02:34Johnson

02:35>> present.

02:36>> Aldwoman Kelly.

02:39Alderman Morgan

02:40>> here.

02:42>> Alderman Lopez.

02:45>> Alderman Wolshshire

02:46>> here.

02:47>> 13 present, two absent.

02:49>> I did hear from all the women's uh Kelly

02:52that she had a a sick child, so she will

02:54not be joining us this evening.

02:59Also joining us this evening is Mayor

03:01Jim Donas and Corporation Council Steve

03:03Bolton. Mayor, did you wish to address

03:04the board this evening?

03:05>> Uh yes, Madam President. I had a few

03:07items. Um, first of all, I wanted to uh

03:10direct the attention of uh the board of

03:14alderman to the memo which uh came from

03:17Amy Gerard and is number one on the

03:19communications. Um, it outlines how the

03:24city has saved about or will save about

03:28$600,000 in total as a result of locking

03:32in lower than market current market

03:34rates for

03:36uh fuel

03:38uh and uh also electricity. Most of the

03:43savings come uh from the electric

03:45savings, but that has to do with the uh

03:49power that is being purchased at much

03:51less than the Eversource rate of about

03:5414 cents per uh kilowatt hour. So, I'd

03:57like to certainly thank Amy Gerard and

04:00everyone involved here. I'm sure Doria

04:03Brown was involved as well uh in

04:05achieving these savings for the

04:07taxpayers of the city of NSHA.

04:10Uh next uh madame president I wanted to

04:14uh mention that an item on the agenda

04:16tonight is the there are a number of

04:18bond issues on the uh agenda but uh one

04:22of them the largest one is for the

04:25completion of the uh public works garage

04:29project which was begun with phase one

04:33that was the construction of the office

04:35which exists out at the landfill now. Uh

04:39and we have also of course uh borrowed

04:42and invested money in designing the

04:44project. Uh but the garage that we have

04:47um was built in the 1970s on

04:54I'm going to say on the cheap. Um it is

04:57outl out used its um life. It has

05:02extended beyond its real life and is in

05:05such bad shape now that the u the garage

05:08needs to be replaced for the benefit of

05:10the public works uh employees and the

05:15functions of public works which touch

05:18employees which touch our residents

05:20every every single day. And I see we

05:22have a number of our public works

05:24employees and Paul Shay, a commissioner

05:26here tonight. Uh I assume in support of

05:29that project, which is very

05:33much needed. Um, Madame President, I did

05:36want to inform the board of some bad

05:38news which we got uh from the state of

05:41New Hampshire, which is that we've been

05:44we've learned that the

05:46school aid that the city will receive uh

05:49is going to be a little more than $4

05:53million less uh than uh in the prior

05:57fiscal year. In proposing the budget, we

06:00had assumed a $2 million um decrease,

06:03but it turns out it's going to be four

06:06four and a and a half approximately.

06:10Um this is very unfortunate. Um it

06:14reflects, I believe, a lack of support

06:17at the state level for

06:20our New Hampshire's [snorts] children.

06:22Um people have said and I think it's

06:25correctly said that a public education

06:28system is the basis of the American

06:30dream. And why is that true? because

06:35that is how kids that don't have a lot

06:37of means, who don't have

06:40um parents who can support private

06:43education

06:44>> [snorts]

06:44>> uh could get ahead uh by uh learning in

06:49the public schools, making something of

06:51their lives and their families and

06:53realizing what we call the American

06:55dream.

06:56So the state's lack of support for

06:59public education

07:01uh I find uh distressing.

07:05The

07:07we know and we've discussed this

07:09numerous times before, but the New

07:11Hampshire Supreme Court has ruled over

07:14and over again that the state of New

07:17Hampshire is not coming even close to

07:21satisfying its constitutional obligation

07:24under the New Hampshire constitution

07:26uh to provide an adequate and even

07:28that's a low bar, but an adequate

07:30education for uh our children. Uh this

07:34occur of course occurs at the same time

07:37when

07:39um we see the legislature has abolished

07:41many sources of revenue that uh have

07:45benefited uh and those those policies

07:47have benefited uh more affluent

07:50residents and big corporations. The

07:52cutting of the business taxes over time,

07:55the elimination of the business profits

07:57tax. uh when the decision came, should

08:00we reduce property taxes and help with

08:02that or should we uh make these changes

08:06that uh benefit uh kind of a select few?

08:09Uh the choice has been to u not to

08:14support public education and not to help

08:17property taxpayers

08:19uh across the state. And I wanted to

08:22mention in addition as part of this that

08:25as we see the voucher program growing

08:28like by unbelievable leaps and g and

08:31bounds. It is up 600% in five years uh

08:36to the point where now it is $64 million

08:38and in the current fiscal year is the

08:41projected amount and it's I'm sure going

08:43to keep growing. uh instead that in my

08:47opinion that money should be directed

08:49into the public schools. Uh we see

08:52property taxes

08:54skyrocketing across the state because of

08:58school costs which also are going up

09:00very quickly. Uh special ed costs,

09:03transportation, these things are going

09:05up way more than the rate of inflation.

09:08And at the same time, the state is

09:10reducing uh education aid for Nashville

09:13and many other cities and towns uh

09:15across New Hampshire.

09:18Uh so I wanted to let [snorts] the board

09:19know that um there is going to be a $2

09:22million problem. Of course, we'll cover

09:25it with property taxes, but uh an

09:27additional $200 million reduction uh $2

09:31million reduction uh by the state of New

09:33Hampshire.

09:35And finally, Madame President, I want to

09:37mention that on Monday, October 26,

09:40we're going to have city hall uh uh

09:44trickor treat. Um the I think it starts

09:48at uh around 3:30 and goes to 5. uh

09:52children from all over New H Nashville

09:55can come to city hall to the various

09:57departments and can um do trick or

10:00treat, receive, you know, their little

10:03treats, candy and the like. Uh our city

10:06employees do this every year and uh they

10:09I know they do a really good job in

10:11decorating and uh in handing out treats

10:16to the kids. Actually, it's 3:00 to 5:00

10:18p.m. and this is on Monday, October

10:2026th, uh, which is Halloween week. Uh,

10:23so we hope that as many kids as possible

10:26can come to city hall and enjoy that

10:28particular,

10:30uh, Halloween event. And that's all I

10:33have, Madam President. Thank you, Mayor.

10:35Responses to the remarks of mayor.

10:38>> Alman Tibo.

10:39>> Thank you, Madam President. Um, yeah,

10:41that people continue to think there's a

10:43myth in this city that the downshifting

10:46is not not affecting us in in Nashville,

10:49but we are last in school education

10:52being uh supported by the state. That's

10:5650th. And we have a governor that lives

10:59literally in this city and doesn't help

11:01support public education. Her kids went

11:04to private. I'm sure the governor before

11:06that went to private. They just don't

11:08care. And if we It's disgusting and it's

11:10sick because what's going to happen is

11:12we're going to cut programs. That's

11:14what's going to happen. And we're going

11:15to cut teachers and we're going to cut

11:16schools. And maybe cutting schools is

11:18okay. Cutting programs is not. And

11:20that's what's going to happen. Our taxes

11:22are going to go up and things are going

11:23to get cut that people are used to

11:24having. And that's just, you know,

11:27people have to go and vote for the right

11:29choices and make sure that we save

11:31public education because it's going in

11:32the wrong direction. and kids who need I

11:35there's there's other cities and towns

11:36in the state where they've cut sports

11:39programs and art programs and music

11:41programs. If you don't play sports, you

11:44want other programs, whether it's music

11:46or art or [snorts] something else that

11:47you can go to. And if we have to cut

11:49those programs, Superintendent Andre

11:51said it when I said if we cut 2 million

11:53out of this budget, what happens? First

11:54thing he said is cut programs because

11:56you can't cut a school like this and and

11:58you can't cut teachers like this when

12:00you've already had the contract out,

12:02right? So, the first thing that would be

12:03cut is programs and that would hurt our

12:05students. So, I don't see why uh people

12:07still think the city's at fault here

12:10when we clearly have the facts that it's

12:12coming from up in the state. Thank you,

12:15>> Alderman O'Brien.

12:17>> Thank you, Madam President.

12:19[clears throat]

12:20As some of you know, I spent 16 years up

12:23there in conquered.

12:25Some of those 16 years have been very

12:28shameful to me of the way the city of

12:31Nshawa has been treated and this example

12:35of education is the prime example.

12:40I would like to turn the tune to

12:43something a little bit more radical

12:45because the majority of the house is

12:50call it for what it actually is

12:52Republican and these people evidently

12:56don't have a care. I'm not saying all

12:59Republicans don't have a care for

13:01education, but they look disdainfully

13:06to citizens of Nasha, Manchester, Salem,

13:09our larger communities. They're more

13:12worried about having their view of the

13:15mountains up there in Bartlett. They

13:18never supported us with projects that

13:21would benefit our city, that probably

13:23would help out in this situation.

13:25[clears throat]

13:25And I'm talking about commuter rail.

13:28But now they've added an extra $2

13:32million to our taxpayers,

13:36which is going to make us do some very

13:39serious cuts. Are we going to

13:42potentially

13:44downsize the police, the fire

13:46department, as well as education to make

13:48up the additional costs?

13:51Would it not be cheaper? and entertain

13:54my thought to probably deduct from what

13:57the state wants in taxes $4 million.

14:02Let them sue us and tell them why we're

14:05doing it. Because we are committed

14:09[snorts] by our charter and by all rules

14:12in the state constitution to educate our

14:14young

14:16and we're doing a good job of it except

14:20we're getting blindsided hit in the back

14:23to which any football ref would have

14:25thrown the flag but there's nobody up in

14:28conquered to throw flow the flag. So,

14:31we're independent. [snorts]

14:32We're on our own. Maybe we should

14:34collaborate with our friends in

14:36Manchester. Look at some radical means.

14:40Take them to court. Mr. Bolton, are you

14:43busy? You [laughter] know,

14:45>> we have taken the court to court.

14:48>> I understand that, you know, and

14:50corporate council, what you say is true

14:52and doing a fine job, but it falls on

14:56deaf ears.

14:58The Republicans have been in charge of

15:01the House for many, many, many years.

15:06I saw even an ex alderman come up to the

15:10state and hit one of the local state

15:14representatives

15:16to write a bill to

15:19institute the uh the spending cap. And

15:24you know who voted? people from

15:26Bartlett, Lancaster,

15:28everybody else. But all 28 refs from the

15:33city of Nashville voted against it. But

15:36it fell upon deaf ears because of the

15:39skewed numbers up there at the state

15:42house. And I'm trying to wonder why does

15:47somebody from Bartlett

15:49or [snorts] wherever land or somewhere

15:52up there, what gives them the right to

15:55affect my sovereignty

15:57as a national resident on how we choose?

16:02So maybe it's time. Uh I know we've hit

16:06the seaw wall legally, but they're not

16:09going to know that we're, you know, we

16:12can either be pacifist with this and

16:13roll over and [snorts] let them, okay,

16:16you know, the state rub our belly or we

16:19can turn around and nip them. You know,

16:22it's just like something needs to be

16:25done. And $4 million

16:29is no chunk change.

16:32>> [snorts]

16:32>> And that's got to come out of our

16:34taxpayers.

16:35And I hope elections are coming. That's

16:38our way to rectify things. And I hope

16:42people do some soul searching and see

16:44what's happening up there. You know, I'm

16:48not saying we get great representation.

16:50There's 400 reps. They only get $100 a

16:53year. It act for 16 years. It actually

16:56cost me more money

16:59to be a state rep than I was actually

17:01making. Since I'm no longer the state

17:04rep, I had to go out and get a paper

17:06route to make some extra money.

17:09But the thing is this is a ridiculous

17:14and ridiculous system and now it's

17:16affecting us. And let's look at some of

17:19the things that they have done. Charter

17:21schools are public schools. We bust the

17:24kids. They're coming up with vultures.

17:28This is getting way way way way too

17:31much, you know. My parents sent me to

17:34parochial school because that was our

17:37Irish Catholic faith.

17:39You know, and they made the sacrifices

17:42to do that. If your kid wants to go to

17:44charter school, so be it.

17:47But funded yourself. That was always a

17:50choice. If you can't fund it, we do

17:52[clears throat] supply an excellent an

17:55excellent educational program. Is the

17:58state blind that we do not have kids

18:01that go to Nashville High and Nashville

18:03South that don't go to Harvard? They do.

18:08We supply good education in the city.

18:11The only one that's strangling us is the

18:14state of New Hampshire. What happened to

18:17live free and die? Thank you, Madam

18:19President.

18:20Alman Johnson,

18:21>> thank you. I spent two years up at the

18:24state house and I couldn't wait to get

18:25out. I'll tell you. And I was on your

18:27side of the aisle. [laughter]

18:29>> So, because I'll tell you it was

18:32Alderman Clemen's mother and Betty

18:35Laskkey who asked me to run and he has a

18:38wonderful mother, you know, great

18:40father, great family he comes from. But

18:42I just want to give a little bit of

18:44history and maybe um um Madame Chairman,

18:48you can um make sure I'm correct here

18:51because when I was on the board here, we

18:53used to get windfalls from the state. We

18:55used to get 30, 40, $50 million. We used

18:57to get quite a bit of money and the

18:59poorer towns didn't get it, but we got

19:01it under Bernie Strea and I remember

19:03that and it and our education we were

19:05flourishing. But I guess things then

19:08changed. But when I was in the state

19:10house, I also said we've never

19:13identified or came up with the meaning

19:16of what is an adequate education for

19:19kids. So, we're throwing mud against the

19:21wall because what is an adequate

19:23education? We also heard from the school

19:25district that we were short two 240

19:28less free and reduced lunches and about

19:31210 less children. So that's going to

19:34affect it anyway because if you have

19:36less kids in the system, the state isn't

19:38going to pay you as much if you don't

19:39have as many kids in the system. And the

19:42school district also told us that they

19:44were short. We had to give them $150,000

19:47because they were short in the lunch

19:49program, which was self- sustaining all

19:52along. And then when you listened to

19:53them, they said, "Well, part of it is

19:55because we gave them benefits." Well,

19:58you can't give something if you don't

20:00have the money and then it's going to

20:01put you in the red and you shouldn't be

20:04in the red. I mean, it's a school

20:07district. So, the school district also

20:09has to make a lot of tough decisions

20:11that we can't make for them. And I

20:14understand we're going to be short

20:15money. But on the other hand, if your

20:18population is decreasing, like in any

20:20business,

20:22if your business is losing money, you

20:24have to make adjustments somewhere so

20:26you don't go belly up. And the school

20:29district could go belly up. The state

20:32could take them over. But you know what?

20:35They have to make tough decisions. And

20:37you can't always blame everything on the

20:38state because if they made a bad choice

20:40and gave benefits that cost their lunch

20:44program

20:46not to be able to support itself

20:47anymore, that's not the state's fault.

20:50So, I mean, we can blame a lot on the

20:52state, but we can also blame a lot here

20:55on fiscally responsibility that people

20:58have to own up if they're not making the

21:00right choices within the district. Thank

21:02you very much.

21:03>> Cool. Further, anything further?

21:05Recognition period

21:07>> none

21:09>> reading minutes of previous meetings.

21:10There being no objection, I'll declare

21:12the minutes of the special and regular

21:13board of alderman meetings of March

21:1523rd, 2026, May 12th, 2026, and

21:18September 2020 28th, 2026 be accepted,

21:22placed on file, and the reading

21:23suspended. Communications requiring only

21:25procedural actions and written reports

21:27from liaison. Communication has been

21:29received from Amy Gerard, purchasing

21:32manager, and Doria Brown, energy

21:34manager, regarding energy contract

21:36savings in cost avoidance.

21:39>> There being no objection, I'll accept

21:40the communication and place it on file.

21:42Without objection, I'll suspend the

21:44rules to allow for communication that

21:46was received after the agenda was

21:48prepared.

21:49>> Communication has been received from Liz

21:51Hanam, economic development director,

21:53regarding disposition of 342 Main

21:56Street. There being no objection, I'll

21:58accept the communication and place it on

21:59file.

22:03Period for public comment relative to

22:06items expected to be acted upon this

22:08evening. We have two people signed up.

22:10Lori Odolano

22:21Lori Erdolano Nasha I'm not going to

22:23rehash. I came out to the um alderman

22:25hearing on the spending of these

22:27resolutions and the bonding of money and

22:29I participated in that and there's no

22:30reason for me to have to rehash that

22:32here. But I would like to say that all

22:34of the resolutions that are 2.5 million

22:37or less I would have liked to have seen

22:39the language change to say they'll

22:41either be bonded or um surplus money

22:44will be used to pay for them based on

22:47what is left at the end of the year or

22:49by Q3. I don't think these bonds will be

22:51sold by the end of the year. And I think

22:53that we should um see what's left. We

22:56always do Christmas shopping in June

22:58where we come in and have $20 million

23:00and we say, "Oh, there's all these

23:02projects we didn't budget for and now

23:03we're going to go do them because we

23:04have surplus." No more Christmas

23:06shopping in June. Take that money and

23:08pay down bonds that you're taking out

23:11that don't meet the objective of the ad

23:12hoc committee. Director Cummings made a

23:15very interesting statement in that

23:16meeting. He said that the reason you're

23:18bonding the million dollars or two is

23:21because it takes time to [clears throat]

23:23implement that program. What does that

23:26mean? It's on the third year. How much

23:28time does it take? There was no

23:30explanation given. Somebody in this

23:32chamber should ask um Director Cummings,

23:34what does that mean? When is the time

23:37going to be right that you have money

23:39that you don't have to bond a million,

23:411.5, 2, 2.5? pay it down out of surplus

23:45and put the option in the resolution.

23:47Also, I'd like to speak to the um

23:49walking um or the um disabilities um

23:52Zoom meeting uh ordinance. You know,

23:55I've expressed my concerns about that. I

23:57am really concerned that the uh sponsor

24:00of that is being hung out to dry by the

24:02legal office by not getting the right

24:04interpretation or reading. Now, Alderman

24:06Kelly did not vote on that in personnel

24:08administrative affairs because she

24:10wanted the input of legal. She's not

24:12here. So, the very reasons why we didn't

24:15get a vote is because she was coming

24:16here to get Legal's advice. I hope

24:19tonight you asked some very direct

24:21questions to Legal on do they back this

24:24ordinance as written. Steve Bolton used

24:26some very artful language, one sentence

24:29where he pinned Alderman Johnson three

24:31times by name and then said, "We agree

24:34to the form, but the form had no

24:36analysis section." The analysis has

24:38changed completely from February. This

24:41is not an RSA driven ordinance. It's now

24:43an ADA title 2driven ordinance.

24:46Documentation in the new ordinance or

24:47amended is not defined. It does it only

24:50covers full board of alderman meetings.

24:53And some of these things have to be

24:55addressed. And I don't know if approving

24:58a you know bad written ordinance is

25:00better than approving nothing. I can't

25:02answer to that. Maybe it is. But legal

25:04should be asked that. and they should be

25:06put in a corner and identified on do you

25:09support this beyond the form. I don't

25:12want to know about the form. I want to

25:14know the uh the function and the

25:15liability issue here. I've got 30

25:17seconds left. I thought the presentation

25:20on school funding from conquered was a

25:22disgrace. What was said here? Nobody

25:24should be picking on private education.

25:26The mayor sent his kid to private

25:28education. We have aldermen in this

25:29chamber that use private education for

25:31their kids. We should not pick on that

25:34ever. Ever. ever, ever. We leave that

25:37alone. That topic doesn't go on the

25:39table. And the mayor did not disclose

25:41why there is a shortage in this funding.

25:43He went right to the disgrace of it all.

25:46And enrollments are down. Many, many

25:48things said here could be could be

25:50picked apart and I will do that, but I'm

25:52out of time. Thank you,

25:56>> Paul Shay.

26:00Um, Border Public Works Commissioner

26:01Paul Sha, I came before you uh a number

26:05of times to speak in favor of the bond

26:07items relative to work of uh the public

26:10works division uh including the garage,

26:13uh the pool, wastewater treatment, and

26:15other items. Of course, I am here in

26:17support of those this evening as well.

26:20Uh again, I'm also here this evening in

26:24support of I I believe it's um

26:282602

26:30uh the item relative to public comment

26:33uh for people with walking disabilities.

26:36I think it's a very good move in the

26:37right direction. It's my belief that we

26:40have a a a practical uh track record of

26:45of allowing for public comment during

26:47times when we were doing the social

26:50distancing stuff. Uh the infrastructure

26:52is there. I also believe that it is

26:57absolutely the case that there are

26:58people who are excluded from having an

27:00opportunity to speak. And though they

27:04have an opportunity to write in and

27:06though they have an opportunity to phone

27:08their elected representatives, that's

27:10not the same as coming before the forum.

27:13Coming before the forum, you're able to

27:15express truly how you feel before the

27:17group as they're about to make their

27:19decision. that the weight of those

27:20feelings comes with that commentary when

27:23it's given in that way.

27:25Further, I believe that and I haven't

27:28tracked this so well. I don't know how

27:31and if it's been amended. I I do believe

27:33that it should be opened up. Um I

27:36believe that uh people who have uh

27:40disabilities that are not necessarily

27:42physical uh or not necessarily mobility

27:45related may be prohibited from

27:47participation.

27:49um even with regard to uh uh mental

27:54disabilities or um neurody divergent uh

27:59ways of being. So if if someone has

28:02autism for example, they may be

28:03overstimulated by this environment. Uh

28:06being in this room with a lot of people

28:08with a lot of energy sometimes can be a

28:10lot and if you're someone who's very

28:12sensitive to that. Uh coming here is a

28:16lot different than logging in maybe

28:19turning off your headphones in the the

28:21leadup to the moment for public comment

28:24and then tuning in and participating in

28:26that way. And so I would encourage you

28:29to consider if there's some space for

28:32that between now and passage opening

28:34that up.

28:34>> One minute.

28:35>> Thank you very much. Um you look back to

28:39my last participation here before you. I

28:42brought my son with me. Uh, many of you

28:44may have noticed that he was climbing up

28:46the walls. Um, and he was very good. He

28:49did a good job. And he was climbing up

28:51the walls. He was jumping around on the

28:53back bench. Um, and and it it's tough to

28:58be

28:59uh a parent. It's tough to participate

29:03as a parent. Uh we've had a number of

29:05public meetings over time where parents

29:08have gone to great lengths to

29:09participate and then end up there for 3

29:11four hours to to be able to participate

29:14in various things. So I'd encourage you

29:16to open it up further. Uh I believe we

29:18have infrastructure for that and uh

29:20should something like this uh be amended

29:23to come before the board of public

29:25works, I would further support that. I

29:27believe we're also equipped to handle

29:28that level of participation and I I

29:31think it's a good thing. I think it's

29:32democratic. Thank you.

29:37>> That concludes the first public comment

29:39period. Communications requiring final

29:42approval.

29:43>> Communication has been received from

29:44Mayor Jim Dantress regarding multi-year

29:47award copier lease and maintenance

29:49agreement.

29:50>> Alderman Greg.

29:52>> Thank you. I'd like to make a motion to

29:53accept, place on file, and approve a

29:56contract for replacement copers for risk

29:58management to in community development,

30:00DT DPW administration, and the

30:03legislative office with Toshiba

30:05Financial Services in the amount not to

30:08exceed $35,220.

30:10That's $587 a month for 60 months.

30:14Funding will be through Department 120,

30:16Technology Maintenance Fund, General

30:19Fund 54, Property Services.

30:22You've heard the motion. Is there

30:23discussion on that motion?

30:27>> Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

30:29>> I.

30:29>> Opposed. That motion carries.

30:32>> Communication has been received from

30:34Mayor Jim Donress regarding multi-year

30:37contract award internet service.

30:39>> Follow Smith.

30:40>> Yes. Thank you, Madam President. I'd

30:43like to make a motion to accept and

30:45place on file and approve a 36-month

30:48extension contract for the continued use

30:50of the city's primary internet service

30:53with Fidium Enterprises Services LLC in

30:57the amount not to exceed $29,484.

31:03Funding will be through department 120

31:05technology maintenance fund general fund

31:0855

31:11for other other services.

31:13>> You've heard the motion. Is there

31:15discussion on that motion?

31:18>> Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

31:20>> I.

31:21>> Opposed?

31:22>> That motion carries.

31:23>> Communication has been received from

31:25Mayor Jim Donas regarding multi-year

31:28contract award Microsoft software

31:30assurance program. Alman Clemens.

31:33>> Thank you, Madam President. I move to

31:35accept, place on file, and approve a

31:37three-year contract to continue the

31:38city's participation in the Microsoft

31:41Software Assurance Program with SHIE

31:44International Group in the amount not to

31:46exceed 68,3108.

31:50Funding will be through Department 120,

31:52Technology Maintenance Fund, General

31:54Fund, 55 other services.

31:56>> You've heard the motion. Is there

31:57discussion on that motion?

32:00Seeing none. All those in favor say I.

32:03>> Opposed.

32:04>> That motion carries.

32:05>> Communication has been received from

32:07Mayor Jim Dantress regarding

32:09million-doll contract construction for

32:11the wastewater treatment facility phase

32:14one upgrade.

32:16>> Alman Greg.

32:17>> Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to

32:19accept, place on file, and approve a

32:21contract with Lorero Building

32:24Construction LLC for the phase 1 upgrade

32:27project contingent upon approval of

32:29additional bond funding in the amount

32:31not to exceed 11,692,4156.

32:37Funding will be through Department 169

32:39wastewater fund bond pending approval 81

32:42capital outlay improvements.

32:44>> You've heard the motion. Is there

32:46discussion on that motion?

32:49Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

32:51I.

32:52>> Nay.

32:53>> Opposed. Nay.

32:54>> Motion carries.

32:56Communication has been received from

32:59Mayor Jim Donas regarding million-doll

33:01contract award wastewater treatment

33:04facility phase one upgrade construction

33:06engineering.

33:07>> Aldwoman Smith.

33:08>> Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to

33:10make a motion to accept and place on

33:12file and approve a contract with Wright

33:15Pierce for construction administration

33:17services for the phase one upgrade

33:20project and the amount not to exceed

33:231,361,000.

33:26Funding will be through the department

33:28169 wastewater fund bond pending

33:31approval 81 capital outlay outlay

33:35improvements.

33:37>> You've heard the motion. Discussion on

33:38that motion.

33:42Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

33:43>> I.

33:44>> Opposed.

33:46Motion carries.

33:48>> Communication has been received from

33:50Mayor Jim Donress regarding tax

33:52increment financing development program,

33:54Renaissance Park audio system change

33:57order number one.

33:59>> Alman Clemens.

34:00>> Thank you, Madam President.

34:02I move to accept place on file and

34:04approve change order number one with any

34:07mobile audio to include a dedicated

34:11control tablet and a multi- angle camera

34:14system in the amount not to exceed

34:16$3,597.

34:19Funding will be through department 183

34:21economic development fund riverfront

34:24tiff fund

34:2670 project contingency

34:29>> heard the motion. And is there

34:30discussion on that motion?

34:33Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

34:35>> I.

34:36>> I.

34:36>> Opposed?

34:37>> Nay.

34:38>> That motion carries.

34:40>> Communication has been received from

34:41Matt Sullivan, community development

34:43director, regarding city of Nshawa,

34:46right of first refusal, NH DOT, right

34:48ofway adjacent to main dunstable road.

34:51>> Oldman Clemens.

34:52>> Thank you, Madam President. I move to

34:54approve a communication from Matt

34:56Sullivan, community development

34:57director, dated October 7th, 2026,

35:01relative to the city of NSHA right of

35:03first refusal, New Hampshire DOT right

35:06of way adjacent to main dunul road and

35:09issue a communication to New Hampshire

35:12DOT waving the city's right of first

35:15refusal.

35:16>> You've heard the motion. Is there

35:18discussion on that motion?

35:21Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

35:23I.

35:24>> Opposed.

35:25>> Motion carries.

35:27>> Petitions?

35:28>> None.

35:28>> Nominations, appointments, and

35:29elections?

35:30>> None.

35:31>> Reports of committees.

35:35There being no objection, I'll declare

35:36the reports of the June 3rd, 2025, March

35:399th, 2026, March 23rd, 2026, June 11th,

35:442026, and September 1, 2026 budget

35:47review committee be accepted and placed

35:48on file. I

35:49>> think so. Confirmation of mayor's

35:51appointments.

35:52>> Arts Commission.

35:54>> There being no objection, I will confirm

35:55the reappoint of Charles Emmens, 8

35:58Strawberry Bank Road, Unit 4, Nashville,

36:00with a term to expire July 30, 2029 to

36:03the Arts Commission. Is Mr. Emmens

36:06available as [clears throat]

36:08he will be sworn in at a later date.

36:11>> Business and Industrial Development

36:13Authority. There being no objection, I

36:16will confirm the reappoint of Kyle

36:18Andred, 12 Mountain Laurels Drive,

36:19Nashville, with a term to expire

36:21September 13, 2028 to the Business and

36:23Industrial Development Authority. I do

36:26not see Mr. Andred. He will be sworn in

36:28at a later date.

36:31>> Electric Aggregation Committee. There

36:35being no objection, I'll confirm the

36:37reappoint of Frank Tease, 93 Conquered

36:39Street, Nashville, with a term to expire

36:41August 31st, 2028 to the Electric

36:43Aggregation Committee. I also do not see

36:46Mr. Te's. He will be sworn in at a later

36:48date.

36:50>> Homeless Services Gap Analysis

36:53Committee. There being no objection,

36:55I'll confirm the new appointments of

36:56Jane Goodman, 2 Quincy Street, NSHa,

36:58Latona Mousioli, 3 Crown Street, Nasha,

37:01and Tonia Nisley, 83 Major Drive, Nasha,

37:03to the homeless services gap analysis

37:05committee.

37:07I don't see any of those individuals.

37:09They will be sworn in at a later date.

37:15Unfinished business resolutions. Second

37:18reading of R-26-057,

37:21approving the borrowing of an additional

37:23$345,000

37:26from the Clean Water State Revolving

37:28Fund for the Four Hills Landfill PAS Lee

37:32shape removal and destruction pilot test

37:34project.

37:35>> Alman Dow

37:36>> like to make a motion for final passage

37:38of R2657

37:40by roll call pursuant to charter section

37:4349.

37:46You've heard the motion. Is there

37:48discussion on that motion?

37:51>> Seeing none, would the clerk call the

37:52role, please?

37:53>> Alderman Clemens,

37:54>> yes.

37:55>> Alderman Cle,

37:56>> yes.

37:58>> Alderman Ravan,

37:59>> yes.

38:00>> Aldwoman Smith,

38:01>> yes.

38:02>> Alderman,

38:03>> yes.

38:04>> Alderman O'Brien,

38:06>> yes.

38:07>> Alderman Greg,

38:08>> yes.

38:09>> Alderman Dow,

38:10>> yes.

38:11>> Alderman Sullivan,

38:12>> yes. Alderman Senate,

38:14>> yes.

38:15>> Alderman Johnson,

38:16>> yes.

38:18>> Alderman Morgan,

38:19>> yes.

38:20>> Alman Wilshshire,

38:21>> yes.

38:22>> 13 yay, zero nays.

38:24>> And that motion carries. And resolution

38:272657

38:29is declared duly adopted.

38:31Second reading of R-26-059,

38:35authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

38:37to borrow an amount not to exceed $3

38:40million through the issuance of bonds

38:43and/or a loan through the New Hampshire

38:45Department of Environmental Services

38:48State Revolving Loan Fund for the

38:50Wastewater Treatment Plant Phase One

38:52Upgrades Project.

38:54>> Alderman O'Brien.

38:55>> Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to

38:56make a motion for final passage of

38:58R-26-059.

39:03>> You've heard the motion. Is there

39:05discussion on that motion? Alderman

39:06Sullivan.

39:07>> Thank you very much, Madam President.

39:08Just a question I didn't hear or don't

39:10recall hearing in committee when this

39:13came up. It says here andor. It's either

39:16uh it's either bonds and or a loan. Can

39:20can anyone field the question as to do

39:22we know with some certainty which it

39:24will be

39:26>> aloud? Uh it depends on which has the

39:29lower interest rate I believe.

39:35>> So whichever one is more cost favorable

39:37to the city of Nashville.

39:39>> Followup.

39:40>> Yes. It's my understanding like the

39:42previous

39:44um resolution is that uh this revolving

39:47loan fund as long as we dot our eyes and

39:50cross our tees there is no there is no

39:53interest on that loan. Um that's why I

39:56was asking

39:58that's my understanding of it.

40:01>> Okay.

40:05[snorts]

40:05>> Yes.

40:09you don't like it.

40:10>> Hi, Carolyn Okconor, assistant director

40:11of public works. Um, no, there's

40:13interest on the SRF loan. It just could

40:16be a lower interest rate than the bonds

40:17at the time. So, we review it once we're

40:20ready to sell it.

40:20>> Okay. Thank you very much.

40:22>> Thank you.

40:24>> All said, Alman Sullivan.

40:25>> Yes. Okay. Thank you.

40:26>> Any further discussion?

40:29Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

40:34>> Call the RO. It takes 10 votes.

40:36>> Okay.

40:38Will the clerk please call role?

40:40>> Alderman Clemens,

40:41>> yes.

40:42>> Alderman Cle,

40:43>> yes.

40:45>> Alderman Rean,

40:46>> yes.

40:47>> Aldwoman Smith,

40:49>> yes.

40:50>> Alderman Tibo,

40:51>> yes.

40:52>> Alderman [snorts] O'Brien,

40:53>> yes.

40:54>> Alderman Greg,

40:56>> yes.

40:56>> Alderman Dow,

40:58>> yes.

40:59>> Alderman Sullivan,

41:00>> no.

41:02>> Alderman Senate,

41:03>> yes.

41:04>> Alderman Johnson,

41:05>> no.

41:07Alderman Morgan,

41:09>> yes.

41:10>> Alman Wilshshire,

41:11>> yes.

41:12>> 11 yays, two nays.

41:14>> That motion carries and resolution 2659

41:17is declared duly adopted.

41:19Second reading of R-26-060,

41:23authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

41:25to issue bonds not to exceed $4,275,000

41:31for the city's sewer infrastructure

41:33improvement in sewer and drain casting

41:36replacement programs.

41:39>> Alman Cle,

41:42>> I'd like to make I'm sorry.

41:44Am I reading this properly? Yes. Okay.

41:47Um,

41:50I think I'm missing something, but um, I

41:52make a motion to authorize the mayor and

41:54city treasurer to issue bonds not to

41:56exceed $4,275,000

42:00for the city's sewer infrastructure

42:03improvement and sewer and drain casting

42:05replacement programs.

42:08>> So,

42:09>> by roll call, please.

42:11>> By roll call.

42:12>> Okay, there's just discussion on that

42:14motion.

42:15>> I just had to read this part. Sorry.

42:17Seeing none, would clerk please call the

42:19role.

42:20>> Alderman Clemens,

42:21>> yes.

42:22>> Alderman Cle,

42:23>> yes.

42:24>> Alderman Rean,

42:26>> yes.

42:27>> Aldwoman Smith,

42:28>> yes.

42:29>> Alderman Tio,

42:31>> yes.

42:31>> Alderman O'Brien,

42:33>> yes.

42:34>> Alderman Greg,

42:35>> yes.

42:36>> Alderman Dow,

42:37>> yes.

42:38>> Alderman Selvin,

42:39>> yes.

42:40>> Alderman Sennet,

42:41>> yes.

42:42>> Alderman Johnson,

42:44>> no.

42:46Alderman Morgan,

42:47>> yes.

42:49>> Alderman Wilshshire,

42:50>> yes.

42:50>> 12 Yays, one nay.

42:52>> That motion carries and resolution 2660

42:54is declared duly adopted.

42:57>> Second reading of R-26-061

43:02authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

43:04to issue bonds not to exceed 2,550,000

43:08for various wastewater capital

43:10improvements. Alderman tobo

43:12>> like to make a motion for final passage

43:14of R-26-061

43:17by roll call.

43:19>> You've heard the motion. Is there

43:20discussion on that motion?

43:24>> Seeing none, will the clerk pull the

43:25role, please?

43:26>> Alderman Clemens,

43:27>> yes.

43:28>> Alderman Cle,

43:29>> yes.

43:30>> Alderman Rean,

43:31>> yes.

43:32>> Aldwoman Smith,

43:33>> yes.

43:34>> Alderman,

43:36>> yes.

43:36>> Alderman O'Brien,

43:38>> yes.

43:39>> Alderman Greg,

43:40>> yes.

43:41Alderman Dow,

43:42>> yes.

43:43>> Alderman Sullivan,

43:44>> no.

43:46>> Alderman Senate,

43:47>> yes.

43:49>> Alderman Johnson,

43:50>> no.

43:51>> Alderman Morgan,

43:53>> yes.

43:54>> Alderman Wilshshire,

43:55>> yes.

43:57>> 11 yays, two nays.

44:00>> That motion carries.

44:03Second reading of R-26-062,

44:08authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

44:11to issue bonds not to exceed $2 million

44:14for various improvements at the solid

44:16waste department for Hills Landfill.

44:19>> Alowed like to make a motion for to

44:22table R262.

44:24I'd like to speak to it for a second.

44:26>> Can't

44:28speak to it. Once you make the motion,

44:29you can go to table. All right, let's

44:32go.

44:32>> Motion is to table.

44:33>> Motion's to table.

44:35>> By roll call.

44:38>> Would the clerk call the role, please?

44:41>> Alderman Clemens,

44:42>> yes.

44:43>> Alderman Clay,

44:44>> yes.

44:45>> Alderman Rean,

44:47>> no.

44:48>> Aldwoman Smith,

44:49>> yes.

44:51>> Alderman,

44:52>> no.

44:54>> Alderman O'Brien,

44:56>> yes.

44:57>> Alderman Greg,

44:58>> yes.

45:00Alderman Dow,

45:01>> yes.

45:02>> Alderman Selvin,

45:04>> yes.

45:05>> Alderman Senate,

45:06>> no.

45:08>> Alderman Johnson,

45:10>> yes.

45:12>> Alderman Morgan,

45:13>> yes.

45:15>> Alderman Wilshshire,

45:17>> yes.

45:18>> 10 nays, three nays.

45:20>> That motion carries.

45:24Second reading of R-26-063

45:29authorizing [snorts] the mayor and city

45:30treasurer to issue bonds not to exceed

45:332,678,828

45:38for the purchase of solid waste capital

45:40equipment.

45:41>> Alman O'Brien.

45:42>> Thank you, Madam President. And I'd like

45:43to make a motion for final passage of

45:45bar-26-063

45:49by roll call pursuant to uh charter

45:52section 49.

45:54>> You've heard the motion. Is there

45:55discussion on that motion?

45:58>> Seeing none, will the clerk call the

46:00role, please?

46:01>> Alderman Clemens,

46:02>> yes.

46:03>> Alderman Cle,

46:04>> yes.

46:05>> Alderman Raan,

46:06>> yes.

46:07>> Aldwoman Smith,

46:09>> yes.

46:10>> Alderman,

46:11>> yes. Alderman O'Brien,

46:13>> yes.

46:15>> Alderman Greg,

46:16>> yes.

46:17>> Alderman Dow,

46:18>> yes.

46:19>> Alderman Sullivan,

46:21>> yes.

46:22>> Alderman Senate,

46:23>> yes.

46:24>> Alderman Johnson,

46:25>> no.

46:26>> Alderman Morgan,

46:28>> yes.

46:29>> Alderman Wilshshire,

46:30>> yes.

46:31>> 12 yays, one nay.

46:32>> That motion carries and resolution 2663

46:35is declared duly adopted.

46:41Second reading of R-26-065

46:45relative to the fiscal year 2026

46:48transfer of 150,000 from department 191

46:52school account 71221

46:55computer equipment to fund 1000

46:59department 21000

47:02food services fund account 4910

47:050 transfer from general fund for the

47:08purpose of funding fiscal year 2026

47:11expenditures in the food services

47:13special revenue fund.

47:16>> Alderman Johnson.

47:17>> Thank you. I'd like to move to recommend

47:20final passage of R-26-065.

47:25>> You've heard the motion. Is there

47:26discussion on that motion?

47:30>> Seeing none, would the clerk call the

47:32role, please?

47:33>> Alderman Clemens,

47:34>> yes.

47:35>> Alderman Clay,

47:36>> yes. Alderman Raan,

47:38>> yes.

47:39>> Aldwoman Smith,

47:41>> yes.

47:41>> Alderman Tibo,

47:43>> yes.

47:43>> Alderman O'Brien,

47:45>> yes.

47:46>> Alderman Greg,

47:47>> yes.

47:48>> Alderman Dow,

47:49>> yes.

47:50>> Alderman Sullivan,

47:51>> yes.

47:52>> Alderman Senate,

47:54>> yes.

47:55>> Alderman Johnson,

47:56>> yes.

47:58>> Alderman Morgan,

47:59>> yes.

48:00>> Alderman Wilshshire,

48:01>> yes.

48:02>> 13, yay, zero nays.

48:05>> That motion carries. And resolution 2666

48:08is declared duly adopted.

48:12>> 65

48:13>> 65

48:13>> 65

48:14>> I'm sorry.

48:16>> Uh second reading of R-26-066

48:21authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

48:23to issue bonds not to exceed $5 million

48:26for the repair and renovation of two

48:28public inground swimming pools.

48:31>> Alderman O'Brien.

48:33>> Thank you, Madam President. I would like

48:34to make the motion for final passage of

48:37bar-26-066

48:40by roll call pursuant to charter section

48:4249 let the kids swim.

48:45>> You've heard the motion. Is there

48:46discussion on that motion? Alderman

48:48Tibo.

48:48>> Thank you. I spoke to this uh last week

48:51in committee. I also just want to say

48:52that um you know it sounds like you know

48:555 million is a lot for two pools but I

48:57think that's been unfortunately the

48:59going rate in the cities and towns in

49:01the state. Um uh when Mr. Conan was was

49:04speaking about it. I actually went back

49:06and looked it up. Centennial Pool was

49:07put in in 1856. So, it was called

49:10Centennial Pool, not because it's

49:11supposed to last a h 100red years. It's

49:13already been almost 70. So, I think it's

49:15time that these pools get updated. At

49:17that time, they put in three pools over

49:19the last over those few years. And I

49:21think uh I think it's time that we get

49:23those things replaced. So, I I say vote

49:25for it. Let the kids swim. Let them

49:27learn. It's the best place for them to

49:29uh get cool in the in the summertime.

49:31>> Thank you,

49:32>> Alman Johnson. Thank you.

49:33[clears throat] I just want to let

49:34everybody know why I'm not voting for

49:35these. I don't think that these aren't

49:37worthwhile projects. It's just that it's

49:39small money and it should be bonded

49:41because the bonding in my opinion should

49:43be for like the public works garage for

49:46$43 million and we're never going to get

49:49caught up as we keep bonding because I

49:52if my math is correct with all of these

49:54projects you're talking over 20 years

49:56over $25 million in interest. That's a

50:00lot of interest to be paying. That's

50:01including the garage. So, how do you get

50:03caught up? You're paying interest. And

50:06you shouldn't pay interest like this on

50:08smaller monies. The bonding should be

50:11for big projects like the DPW garage. If

50:14you want to do the fire station, that's

50:16where the bonding should be, not for

50:19smaller projects because we're going to

50:20be over that 25 to30 million a year by

50:24the time we're done with all of this

50:26that Director Cummings said we could do.

50:28And that was before I was elected. and I

50:30listen to everything very carefully that

50:32we shouldn't be bonding more than 25 to

50:34$30 million a year and I just can't

50:38because these bonds, somebody's got to

50:40pay for the bonds and it's going to be

50:42coming back on the taxpayers. So to me,

50:44this is small money which should not be

50:46bonded and that's why I'm voting against

50:49it. Thank you,

50:52>> Aldman Sullivan.

50:53>> Thank you. I [clears throat and cough]

50:54Excuse me.

50:56I think that when you if if a member of

50:59the public were to read this resolution,

51:02I think they would think that we are

51:04repairing these pools. In spirit, we

51:06are, but it's really a rip and replace.

51:09>> And uh in my day job, I am uh uh I I

51:13spend a lot of time with metal,

51:15specifically stainless steel, and those

51:17costs are up 12% year-over-year, plus

51:20minus.

51:22So, it's my hope that uh if this passes

51:25that we

51:27uh get moving on this. Um I think it's

51:30important that we uh you know supply

51:33this part for you know it's just a it's

51:36um you know it's a quality of life issue

51:39I think for a lot of the kids in the

51:40city and um you know what's interesting

51:44is one of the pools is the Rotary pool.

51:47uh being a member of National Rotary as

51:50I am, um I would be interested to see if

51:53there might be uh some funds, which I

51:56will go and and and talk to them. I

51:58mean, they built it from everything that

52:01I could read to find out if maybe they

52:03could help us out with that. Um I know

52:05we we tried with the stage and that

52:07didn't really work out, but uh maybe

52:09those are conversations we can have um

52:12offline.

52:16Further discussion.

52:19>> Seeing [snorts] none, will the clerk

52:20please call the role?

52:21>> Alderman Clemens,

52:22>> yes.

52:24>> Alderman Cle,

52:25>> yes.

52:26>> Alderman Rean,

52:27>> yes.

52:29>> Aldwoman Smith,

52:30>> yes.

52:31>> Alderman Tibo,

52:32>> yes.

52:33>> Alderman O'Brien,

52:34>> yes.

52:36>> Alderman Greg,

52:37>> yes.

52:38>> Alman Dow,

52:39>> yes.

52:40>> Alderman Sullivan,

52:41>> yes.

52:43>> Alderman Senate,

52:44>> yes.

52:45Alderman Johnson,

52:46>> no.

52:48>> Alderman Morgan,

52:49>> yes.

52:50>> Alderman Wilshshire,

52:52>> yes.

52:52>> 12 yays, one nay.

52:55>> That motion carries and resolution 2666

52:59is declared duly adopted.

53:02Second reading of R-26-072

53:07authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

53:09to issue bonds not to exceed $43,500,000

53:14for the design, construction, and

53:16equipping of a division of public works

53:18garage and fleet maintenance facility.

53:21>> All them endowed

53:22>> like to make a motion for final passage

53:24of R 26072 by roll call pursuant to

53:27charter section 49. Like to speak to it

53:29briefly.

53:30>> All them doubt. Uh we had an excellent

53:32presentation followup and budget

53:34committee. Uh this the savings that we

53:38will receive by building this garage

53:40will almost pay for it. Uh we the

53:44sustainability issues are are immense.

53:46Uh um and that was pointed out and also

53:50I think one of the most important things

53:52is that the health and welfare of our

53:55city employees. the the older garage is

53:58is is it has multiple things that can

54:01cause health problems and the new garage

54:04will won't. So, uh I ask for everybody's

54:08support.

54:11>> You've heard the motion. All right.

54:12Alderman TBO.

54:13>> Thank you, Madam President. Um so, in

54:16the original meeting um that we had on

54:18this, I was uh not I voted for it, but I

54:20wasn't sure how I was going to vote in

54:22this committee. I'm still not 100% sure.

54:24Um, you know, I was happy to find out

54:26that the numbers that we saw in the

54:27presentation were not done by the BPW

54:30commissioners, but they were actually

54:31done by the architects. So, that made me

54:32feel a little bit more comfortable,

54:33especially the 25 to $40 million

54:36savings, which again, I I still think is

54:38somewhat of a guess, but at least I know

54:40that they've done this in other uh

54:42cities and towns, and so they they have

54:44some knowledge of what the savings might

54:46be. Um, it's a lot of money and I'm

54:49irritated to the point of we didn't

54:51spend a few million for a resource

54:53center and it's probably the vote I will

54:54regret most not voting for that resource

54:56center for just a few million and we're

54:58voting you know we're going to spend

54:59over 50 million on this. Um, and so I

55:02realize that um, you know, people think

55:05that it's just a storage for cars and

55:08and and trucks and vehicles and at the

55:11end of the day that's not what it is.

55:12It's not just a garage. It's it's a

55:15place where people work. Um where they

55:18congregate where they need to be when

55:20there's storms, when there's trouble

55:21that they need to be out there. It's a

55:23place to make sure the the vehicles that

55:27we spend a lot of money on are

55:29maintained uh with by mechanics and um

55:32so it's it's important that uh we do

55:35this. So, I'm probably going to vote for

55:36it, but uh it's a lot of money and uh we

55:39have a we we can't forget that in a

55:41couple weeks we got another whole set of

55:42bonding. We got a fire fire department

55:45bonding. We got library bonding. Um so,

55:48we have a lot. Um and uh you know, we we

55:52can't forget that those are going to be

55:54important items, too. So, people that

55:55are all gung-ho for this got to remember

55:57those things are important in different

55:59ways as well. Our fire department is

56:01extremely important. And I know Alderman

56:03uh O'Brien's been wanting, you know, to

56:05to take care of them for a long time.

56:06And I certainly came onto this board

56:08wanting to make sure that we had another

56:09fire department or at least a a better

56:11one because we don't have enough

56:13compared to what they tell us we have.

56:15So, um you know, when we're bonding

56:16stuff, we have to think about stuff.

56:18We're going to be bonding in a few weeks

56:19or we're thinking about bonding or

56:21voting. So, I just want people to keep

56:23that in mind. Um and and we can't be

56:25shortsighted that we have stuff coming

56:27up in the future, too. So, how much do

56:29we want to bond?

56:30>> Alderman Sullivan. Thank you. Uh when I

56:33first looked at the price tag of this, I

56:35think it was I think it was 54 million

56:37and it made my eye twitch and and I

56:40realized that

56:42uh I was a hard no at first and um I

56:45decided what I would do is I would dig

56:48into it a little bit. Director Photo was

56:51uh kind enough to uh give me a personal

56:54tour of the current streets uh property

56:58facility over on Stadium Drive. And I

57:01pretty much uh halfway into that meeting

57:04uh changed my mind. And I think that the

57:08the price tag of this is it's pretty

57:10big, but the liability

57:13>> is even bigger. Mhm.

57:15>> And that to me is when I uh I I had

57:18asked, you know, when does this building

57:20pay for itself? How long does it take

57:22for for it to pay for itself? And while

57:24there was some uh calculus done, which I

57:28appreciated

57:29overall, when I just saw the liability

57:31and I thought, okay, if a truck gets uh

57:34if it catches on fire, yes, insurance

57:36will cover it, but insurance doesn't

57:39make the supply chains move faster. And

57:41if we're down by five snow plows, uh I

57:44don't know about my colleagues here, but

57:46snow plowing is a pretty popular uh item

57:49in my inbox. Uh so I I thought about

57:53that and but I I dug a little bit deeper

57:57because uh director photo let me know

57:59that this has been a conversation going

58:01on for 15 years.

58:03And I went back to when uh the city

58:07bought Burke Street. the city uh sold

58:10Burke Street, uh most of the land, not

58:13all of it. And then I looked at all of

58:16the other projects that happened in the

58:19city ahead of this. And it seemed like

58:24what we did was we put the the would

58:27like to haves ahead of the need to

58:29haves. And now here we are in October of

58:342026

58:36uh

58:38you know with with this in front of us

58:40with a lot more to come as my colleague

58:43mentioned in a couple of weeks

58:45and going back to the beginning of the

58:47meeting I think this point should not be

58:49lost.

58:51While I do understand there is the the

58:54the narrative the story about the state

58:56the state the state I would encourage

59:00everyone to draw a circle around tonight

59:02and in two weeks because this bond

59:05payment alone if you use the uh figures

59:08that we use this year

59:11this bond alone

59:13is 1% on the tax rate that's the debt

59:17service that we're going to pay on that.

59:20So, I am going to support it because

59:23this is something we need,

59:26but I just wanted to include those other

59:28points there and um I appreciate the

59:32time and hope it passes. Thanks,

59:34>> Alderman Clemens.

59:35>> Thank you. Um, I I too originally was uh

59:39not in favor of um

59:43this project and not uh not because I

59:47didn't think that we need a new facility

59:49that I recognized um but because of the

59:54uh the cost and I have to hand it to

59:58Commissioner Greg for really going in

1:00:01and digging into the numbers, getting

1:00:03them from

1:00:05um

1:00:08uh the architects, I guess, um the

1:00:11design firms and in looking at what um

1:00:19the actual cost of this is going to be

1:00:21because in reality, if those savings are

1:00:24are even half true, it should that the

1:00:27savings alone will cover the debt

1:00:28service. So to me, that's what I was

1:00:33looking for. I was looking for

1:00:36what is the justification of spending

1:00:38all of this money and the justification

1:00:40is the savings alone is going to pay for

1:00:42the debt service. So, we're at a wash in

1:00:45my opinion. We're pretty close to it.

1:00:48So, I I I'm going to support this. Um

1:00:53and um you know, that was that was the

1:00:57catalyst of of the uh of my my decision.

1:01:02Alderman

1:01:04Senate.

1:01:05>> Thank you, Madam President. Um, previous

1:01:07two speakers uh touched upon a lot of

1:01:10what I um what I wanted to rub mark on

1:01:12here. Um, I wouldn't say necessarily

1:01:15that it was a hard note when I first saw

1:01:16this, but it it certainly was a bit of

1:01:19sticker shook. And um,

1:01:22I've found this over the over the course

1:01:25of time as it's evolved to be just one

1:01:27of the more frustrating ones to chew on

1:01:29because it's it it has been a long time

1:01:32coming. I mean, I I can, you know, the

1:01:35the issues that have um arisen at the

1:01:38current garage didn't pop up overnight.

1:01:40Um, I can recall 25 years ago, um,

1:01:43parking my car at the, uh, lot that's

1:01:46closer to the YM, what's now the YMCA

1:01:48and walking down Riverside to Nashville

1:01:50High and wondering what the hell that

1:01:51gross building was, um, because we

1:01:54didn't know and it it looked gross then.

1:01:57And, you know, one of the first um, one

1:02:00of the first tours that I did take when

1:02:02I came on this board was with uh, DPW.

1:02:04had like my crash course DPW day and one

1:02:07of the first places they took me was

1:02:08that garage and

1:02:10I

1:02:12it's difficult to ask our city employees

1:02:14who we rely on for so much uh to work in

1:02:17those conditions, you know, especially

1:02:19situations where at least one of them I

1:02:21know very personally uh longer than I've

1:02:23known any of you. So, you know, to to

1:02:28know that a facility is needed um

1:02:33doesn't necessarily make the sticker uh

1:02:34easier to swallow. I would have liked to

1:02:36have seen this done

1:02:37>> all at once when we built the new

1:02:39facility. Um obviously that didn't

1:02:42happen. Um but saying no now is only

1:02:47going to make that sticker price go up.

1:02:50Uh so I feel now is the right time to do

1:02:53it. DPW has really come to the table

1:02:55with everything that we've asked for in

1:02:58this chamber. I I remember the earliest

1:03:00presentations where we had an outside

1:03:03consultant telling us that as well it's

1:03:04just more costefficient to keep uh a

1:03:06truck indoors. Well, any of us could

1:03:08have said that and we we asked for more

1:03:12and we got more. Everything that we sent

1:03:15back to them, they delivered on and they

1:03:18delivered with backed up factual

1:03:21information that demonstrated the need

1:03:23for this. So, I think I think it's time

1:03:25to rise to that need. Thank you,

1:03:27>> Alderman O'Brien.

1:03:29>> Yes. Thank you. Uh I'm going to support

1:03:32this. I am a liaison to the board of

1:03:35public works and

1:03:37um chairman of the infrastructure

1:03:39committee and being chairman of the

1:03:42infrastructure committee. Do you know

1:03:43how much money we have invested for past

1:03:47projects

1:03:48right out here? Two parking garages

1:03:51because of neglect

1:03:53>> by the city.

1:03:55When you have a city engineer come up

1:03:57and tell you, "Oh, you got to do

1:03:59something because they're going to fall

1:04:01down."

1:04:03We're looking at this right now. One of

1:04:06my colleagues brought up 15 years ago.

1:04:09Wouldn't it have been grand if we built

1:04:11this facility 15 years ago? I guarantee

1:04:15you the price we're talking about today

1:04:18would not be the sticker shock that

1:04:20we're seeing here. The more we delay on

1:04:23infrastructure projects,

1:04:26they're going to go up in price. We

1:04:28delayed this one year, I guarantee you

1:04:31it will go up in price. Keep in mind,

1:04:34we're supposed to be custodians.

1:04:38Leaving something in the future that's

1:04:41got to be quality for our employees and

1:04:44for our constituents,

1:04:47and that includes infrastructure.

1:04:52public works garage, fire stations.

1:04:55You know, we have a fire station that's

1:04:57in fairly good shape that horses ran out

1:05:00of because we invested into it. We need

1:05:05to invest. So, I know, hold your nose,

1:05:09despise the sticker shock, but I hope

1:05:12you vote appropriately as custodians

1:05:15for a better nationalist future. Thank

1:05:17you,

1:05:18>> Aldman Johnson. Thank you very much. You

1:05:21know, I know the garage is needed. I

1:05:25walk through it. I had a son that used

1:05:27to work there as a mechanic and I saw

1:05:30the conditions. My biggest problem, and

1:05:33again, if I'm need to have a new DPW

1:05:37garage and I need a new fire station,

1:05:40what are we willing to give up? If these

1:05:42are the two important buildings, do we

1:05:43also put in the library that maybe we

1:05:47don't? Which is the importance? That's

1:05:49the question here. Where's our

1:05:51priorities? I understand that we have to

1:05:52do maintenance on buildings. I

1:05:54understand that we have let them go. But

1:05:58we can't do everything because it's only

1:06:011% on the tax rate, but when you add

1:06:03another building, it's 1 or 2% on the

1:06:05tax rate. And then you add another one

1:06:07is two or three. And by the time you're

1:06:09done, you add 8% or 9% on the tax rate.

1:06:12And then people can't afford their homes

1:06:15anymore. And is that fair to them?

1:06:19you know, so I have to say what is our

1:06:21priority in all of these projects. So I

1:06:24didn't vote on the smaller projects

1:06:26which was 5 million, 2 million, 3

1:06:29million because I don't believe that

1:06:30should be bonded. The money should be

1:06:32here where it's a long-term project that

1:06:35you need that 20 years to pay it out.

1:06:38But we're paying 20 years. We are now

1:06:40leaving this debt for our grandkids and

1:06:44great grandkids. I'm not going to be

1:06:46here in 20 years. I'm going to be 73 on

1:06:48Saturday. I'm probably maybe I will be

1:06:50here in 20 years 93 and still may be in

1:06:53this chamber aggravating everybody here.

1:06:55I don't know. I don't know. But what I'm

1:06:58saying is that we're putting the debt on

1:07:00people that aren't even around at this

1:07:04point in time. So that's where my

1:07:06concern is. I know these projects are

1:07:08important, but I can't say I'm going to

1:07:10do this. I'm going to do a fire station

1:07:12and the library. To me, this would be

1:07:14more important than the fire station

1:07:17because it deals with snow plowing and

1:07:19deals with fire. That's common sense

1:07:21here. But I can't put all this debt on

1:07:25people knowing that they might not be

1:07:27able to afford it. I don't want to see

1:07:29somebody say, you know what, my taxes

1:07:31went up again another 8% and I can't

1:07:34afford my home. What do I do? What do I

1:07:36do? We're talking about people who are

1:07:39homeless right now. Do we want to put

1:07:40people out of their homes because they

1:07:42can't afford their taxes and then we

1:07:43lean their homes? So that's where I'm

1:07:47coming from. What is the priority and

1:07:49for how much are we going to bond? This

1:07:51is 43 million. So even this is spread

1:07:55out two years. That's 20 million each

1:07:57year. And then you're adding another 20

1:08:00million. That's 40 each year. So that's

1:08:02where my issue comes in. How are we

1:08:05looking at all of this bonding so

1:08:07everybody can afford to pay their taxes?

1:08:10I think it's a worthwhile project. I

1:08:13haven't I haven't wrapped my head around

1:08:15the fact that it's just another layer of

1:08:18bonding that I don't think the taxpayers

1:08:21can afford to do smaller projects and a

1:08:24big projects all of this with all of

1:08:27this bonding. Thank you.

1:08:30>> Who hasn't spoken yet? Uh, Alderman

1:08:33Tibo.

1:08:34>> Um, thank you, Madam President. So, one

1:08:38of the things I I don't think it

1:08:40concerns me because but it not having

1:08:43them all here, the big projects that

1:08:45we're going to be looking at this year

1:08:47is concerning because what if the DPW

1:08:48garage was next time and the other two

1:08:50were this time and we vote for the these

1:08:51two now and we get to that one and we

1:08:53go, "Oh boy, that's probably the the

1:08:55bigger project to do because there's

1:08:56more more people involved." But all

1:08:59three of them affect staff. You know, uh

1:09:02library has some things that inside it

1:09:04that don't uh that don't work anymore.

1:09:06Uh certainly the fire department, they

1:09:09live in those buildings, literally live

1:09:10in them. So, you know, we want to make

1:09:13sure they're okay. So, having

1:09:16to decide which one is critical now. Um,

1:09:20and doing this one first, it it makes me

1:09:24just kind of nervous that that maybe the

1:09:27other two don't get done or only one of

1:09:28them gets done or maybe none of them

1:09:30gets done. Um, I would have preferred to

1:09:32have all of them on one night so we

1:09:34because they're the big ones and

1:09:35[clears throat] I think we probably need

1:09:36to talk through the big ones. Um, so I

1:09:40don't know. It's almost like a Sophie's

1:09:41choice I guess in the projects because

1:09:43you know I mean doing all three can we

1:09:44afford all three of them? I don't know.

1:09:46I don't know yet. Alderwoman Smith.

1:09:50>> Thank you, Madam President. um as I you

1:09:53know as one of the new newer individuals

1:09:55around the horseshoe one of the first

1:09:56things that I did was you know take a

1:09:59tour of our department of public works

1:10:01and um my colleague um Alder and

1:10:05Sullivan you know said

1:10:08if you walk through there one just you

1:10:12know one we're grateful for all the

1:10:13staff that work there and and show up

1:10:15for us every day and they put you know

1:10:18put themselves out there but the

1:10:20liability issue the safety issues and I

1:10:23am sure that individuals who came before

1:10:25me tried to make the best decisions

1:10:27possible. Um but also as my other

1:10:30colleague Alderman O'Brien has said you

1:10:32know we are the custodians and as

1:10:34another member of the infrastructure

1:10:37committee you know that we have to take

1:10:40care of our infrastructure and I'm sure

1:10:42individuals you know 5 years ago 10

1:10:44years ago well like let's put this off

1:10:46and we'll wait and we'll wait. Well, we

1:10:48are now up against the wall and we must

1:10:52repair, we must replace, we must

1:10:55reinvest because we are the custodians

1:10:58of the city. And yes, I I have concerns

1:11:01regarding the bonding, regarding the

1:11:03expenses, but I'm sure they have this,

1:11:05you know, 5 10 15 years ago.

1:11:08And if we had made different decisions

1:11:11then, we might financially be at a

1:11:13better point now. But we're at the point

1:11:15where we we must spend, you know, it's

1:11:19just a matter of what do you do when

1:11:20things are crumbling down and and that's

1:11:22where we are now. I think we're beyond

1:11:24some situations where we can just patch

1:11:26and repair that we're just really having

1:11:29to look at our infrastructure and when

1:11:31you've got facilities and buildings that

1:11:33are 50 to 100 years old and pipes that

1:11:36need replacement or reinforcement and um

1:11:40you know being able to protect the

1:11:41vehicles, it's an investment. We don't

1:11:43want to keep making investments into

1:11:46facilities or equipment that we're not

1:11:49protecting because then we're just

1:11:51spending more money replacing it. So

1:11:53although I appreciate all the comments

1:11:55and including you know my colleague

1:11:57Alderman Johnson, I understand what you

1:11:59are saying and you're like what do what

1:12:01do we do? And as Alderman Tibo said I

1:12:04feel like it is definitely a Sophie's

1:12:06choice but at this point we don't really

1:12:08have a choice. We have to do the right

1:12:10thing for the citizens of NSHA.

1:12:14>> Thank you, Alderman Clemens.

1:12:16>> Thank you. Um,

1:12:19I didn't get to attend but one of the

1:12:23debt service committee because of things

1:12:25going on in my uh personal life at the

1:12:28time, but uh that committee did a a

1:12:32great job. Um

1:12:35and all of these things were on the

1:12:38that plan.

1:12:40So, you know, these these uh

1:12:46especially this one in front of us is

1:12:48was on that plan. And um yeah, I mean,

1:12:52it's it's it's expensive, but again, you

1:12:55know, as as we were quoted, the

1:12:59it's going to pay for itself.

1:13:03and and I hope that that leads to, you

1:13:06know, the budget in in the um public

1:13:10works department not coming in as high

1:13:13in the next couple of years. Um maybe

1:13:15not next year, but you know, I'm sure

1:13:17we'll see those savings. Maybe we'll see

1:13:20longer life. And maybe it doesn't come

1:13:21that way, but it comes in the l in the

1:13:24lifespan of the vehicles because they're

1:13:26stored in inside. It's going to come in

1:13:28different ways, right? So, you know,

1:13:32again, this is this is something that um

1:13:38is a long time coming.

1:13:40The work has been done. I think Alderman

1:13:43Senate said it perfectly that, you know,

1:13:47kept going back to them and saying,

1:13:48"Come back with something else. Sharpen

1:13:50the pencil." Well, the pencil's

1:13:52sharpened. It's as sharpened as it's

1:13:53going to be. And when you look at the

1:13:56presentation that was given to us, if we

1:13:58wait doing this even more, the price is

1:14:01just going to keep going up. And I think

1:14:02we all know that. Um, as far as what do

1:14:06we what do we do? We do everything.

1:14:10That's my opinion. I'm going to vote yes

1:14:12on all of this bonding because the the

1:14:15fact of the matter is these are projects

1:14:17that need to be done. It's not a

1:14:19Sophie's choice for me.

1:14:21It's very easy choice for me because the

1:14:24debt service committee has done the job.

1:14:27They've budgeted out what the bonding is

1:14:30going to look like over the next 30

1:14:31years. We have projects so we can pay

1:14:34for them.

1:14:36The issue that that Nasha is having is

1:14:39not the spending that we're doing here

1:14:42within the city.

1:14:44The issue comes down to the state not

1:14:47funding its obligations to us and

1:14:49handing us surprise $2 million, $2.5

1:14:52million bills like they did like the

1:14:55mayor said tonight.

1:14:57That's the problem. The problem is up in

1:14:59conquered. The problem is at the federal

1:15:01government where we're not getting

1:15:03reimbured for things that we used to get

1:15:04reimbursed for. Now, you can make the

1:15:07argument that that means that we have to

1:15:10then cut.

1:15:12And I'm sure that that's what the people

1:15:14up in conquered want us to do. I'm sure

1:15:16that that's what the Republican

1:15:17legislature wants every city like

1:15:20Nashville to do as well. You know what?

1:15:22Eventually, we'll just strangle them

1:15:23enough that they close a school, lay off

1:15:26teachers, and do the things that we want

1:15:27to do, but we don't have the guts to

1:15:29actually do up here in conquered.

1:15:32Well, I I'm not for that, and I won't do

1:15:34that. What I'll do is I'll encourage

1:15:36people to vote the other way

1:15:39and we'll continue to do things like

1:15:42this uh fac this facility tonight and

1:15:46figure out how we can do it in a way

1:15:49that's going to pay for itself. And we

1:15:51have it's going to pay for itself

1:15:52because it's going to cover the vehicles

1:15:55and we're going to see that savings.

1:15:56It's $500 to $900,000 in annual savings.

1:16:01That's crazy.

1:16:03Just to build a building. That's

1:16:05fantastic.

1:16:07So to me, what does that enable us to

1:16:10do? Well, that enables us to do all the

1:16:12other bonding that we have in front of

1:16:14us. It also enables us to do things like

1:16:17the resource center because now we have

1:16:20now we have this building. It's paying

1:16:22for itself. It's saving us money here so

1:16:24that we can spend money over here maybe

1:16:27on human services and things that are

1:16:29more important, right?

1:16:32All of this is a balancing act. None of

1:16:35this should be taken in a silo and

1:16:38looked at. You have to look at the

1:16:39entire thing. Have to. And in this

1:16:43particular project that we're talking

1:16:44about, it pays for itself.

1:16:47That's the bottom line. Yes, it's

1:16:49expensive.

1:16:51Yes, we're going to pay interest on it.

1:16:53But it p the it the savings alone once

1:16:57this thing is in place is going to pay

1:16:59for the debt service. I don't know what

1:17:01else there is to say on it.

1:17:06>> Further discussion.

1:17:10>> Would the clerk please call the role?

1:17:12>> Alderman Clemens.

1:17:13>> Yes.

1:17:14>> Alderman Cle.

1:17:15>> Yes.

1:17:16>> Alderman Rean.

1:17:18>> Yes.

1:17:19>> Alwoman Smith.

1:17:20>> Yes.

1:17:22>> Alderman. Yes.

1:17:24>> Alderman O'Brien.

1:17:25>> Yes.

1:17:26>> Alderman Greg.

1:17:28>> Yes.

1:17:29>> Alderman Dow.

1:17:30>> Yes.

1:17:31>> Alderman Sullivan.

1:17:32>> Yes.

1:17:33>> Alderman Senate.

1:17:35>> Yes.

1:17:36>> Alderman Johnson.

1:17:37>> No.

1:17:39>> Alderman Morgan.

1:17:40>> Yes.

1:17:42>> Alman Wilshshire.

1:17:43>> Yes.

1:17:43>> 12 yays, one nay.

1:17:45>> That motion carries. And resolution 2672

1:17:49is declared duly adopted.

1:17:52Second reading of R-26-073

1:17:56changing the purpose of up to 3,183,200

1:18:02of unexpended bond proceeds from various

1:18:04division of public works capital

1:18:06projects to the division of public works

1:18:09garage and fleet maintenance facility

1:18:11projects.

1:18:12>> Alman,

1:18:13>> I'd like to make a motion for final

1:18:15passage of R-26-073

1:18:18by roll call pursuant to charter section

1:18:2049. I'd like to speak on it briefly.

1:18:22>> Alderman Tol.

1:18:23>> Um, thank you, Madam President. Um, last

1:18:25week I voted against this, so it's

1:18:28interesting that I'm reading it, but uh,

1:18:30I guess you know, Alderman Clemens just

1:18:32convinced me that I should vote for

1:18:33everything. So, I'm going to change my

1:18:34vote and I'm going to vote yes when this

1:18:35comes up. So, thank you.

1:18:39>> Further discussion.

1:18:43>> Seeing none, would the clerk please call

1:18:44the role?

1:18:45>> Alderman Clemens?

1:18:46>> Yes.

1:18:47>> Alderman Cle?

1:18:48>> Yes.

1:18:49Alderman Rean,

1:18:51>> yes.

1:18:52>> Alwoman Smith,

1:18:54>> yes.

1:18:55>> Alderman,

1:18:56>> yes.

1:18:57>> Alman O'Brien,

1:18:58>> yes.

1:18:59>> Alderman Greg,

1:19:01>> yes.

1:19:02>> Alman Dow,

1:19:03>> yes.

1:19:04>> Alderman Sullivan,

1:19:05>> no.

1:19:06>> Alderman Sennet,

1:19:07>> yes.

1:19:09>> Alderman Johnson,

1:19:10>> no.

1:19:12>> Alderman Morgan,

1:19:13>> yes.

1:19:14>> Alman Wilshshire,

1:19:15>> yes. 11 yays, two nays.

1:19:18>> That motion carries and resolution 2673

1:19:21is declared duly adopted.

1:19:24Second reading of R-26-074

1:19:28relative to the creation of three new

1:19:30expendable trust funds in the transfer

1:19:32of 790,387

1:19:36from prior year escros into various

1:19:39expendable trust funds for the division

1:19:41of public works infrastructure

1:19:43improvements, park rehabilit

1:19:45rehabilitation, community development

1:19:47infrastructure improvements, general

1:19:49transportation improvements, downtown

1:19:52improvements, waterways in water bodies

1:19:55in school deferred maintenance.

1:19:58>> Alderman Tibo.

1:19:59>> Uh, I'd like to make a motion final

1:20:01passage of R-26-073.

1:20:04Uh, is this a roll call? By roll call.

1:20:07>> No, I don't think so.

1:20:08>> 74.

1:20:09>> 74.

1:20:12>> Oh,

1:20:13yeah. No, we don't have to do this by

1:20:15roll call though, right? No.

1:20:16>> Okay. Um, I don't want to speak to it.

1:20:20>> Okay. Any further motion? Is there

1:20:23discussion?

1:20:25If not, all those in favor say I.

1:20:27>> I.

1:20:28>> Opposed?

1:20:28>> Nay.

1:20:29>> That motion carries and resolution 2674

1:20:32is declared duly adopted.

1:20:36>> Alman Clemens.

1:20:37>> Thank you, Madam President. I would move

1:20:39to withdraw from the budget review

1:20:41committee resolution R264

1:20:45for a second reading.

1:20:50All right. the motion.

1:20:53Is there discussion on that motion?

1:20:56See? None. All those in favor say I.

1:20:58>> I.

1:20:59>> Opposed?

1:21:00>> Nay.

1:21:01>> That motion carries.

1:21:03>> Second reading of R-26-064

1:21:08authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

1:21:10to issue bonds not to exceed 5,173,428

1:21:16for the purchase of capital equipment.

1:21:19Alderman Clemens.

1:21:21>> Uh, thank you. Um, Madame President, I

1:21:24move to amend R 2664

1:21:28by replacing it with the handout placed

1:21:30on our desks this evening from Treasure

1:21:32Tax Collector Mahaland.

1:21:36>> You've heard the motion. Is there

1:21:38discussion on that motion?

1:21:41>> Seeing none. Oh, Alderman Sullivan.

1:21:43>> I'm confused. Why are we doing this?

1:21:47I would defer to the uh the tax

1:21:50collector. She's here.

1:21:52>> She is here.

1:22:01>> Good evening.

1:22:01>> CFO Enright.

1:22:04>> [clears throat]

1:22:04>> So, this resolution is being amended uh

1:22:07due to the fact that the original um

1:22:10purchase uh requested by the fire

1:22:13department for their equipment was um uh

1:22:16was listed as grant funded on part of

1:22:19it. And in order to be able to um get

1:22:23the funding appropriately aligned, um we

1:22:26felt it was appropriate to um list the

1:22:30items specifically as to what the amount

1:22:33was going to be used for which pieces of

1:22:36equipment. Um the total amount has not

1:22:39changed of what was approved in the

1:22:42budget. It is just within the fire

1:22:44department identifying exactly the items

1:22:48that are being replaced in the exact

1:22:50amount that they're being replaced for.

1:22:55>> You all set?

1:22:58>> Uh no, I'm just uh thank you for asking.

1:23:01Um, I'm trying to understand because

1:23:04this wasn't originally on the agenda

1:23:09and I'm trying to

1:23:12go back to what the motion was. You're

1:23:14pulling it from budget and bringing it

1:23:17forward for a final vote tonight.

1:23:19>> No,

1:23:21my next motion will be to put it back

1:23:23into budget uh once we amend it.

1:23:26>> Oh, I understand.

1:23:28Thank you for clarifying. Yes, no

1:23:30problem.

1:23:33>> You've heard the motion. Is there

1:23:34further discussion on the motion?

1:23:38Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

1:23:40>> Opposed?

1:23:41>> That motion carries.

1:23:44Alman Clemens.

1:23:45>> Thank you. I move uh that R 2664 as

1:23:49amended be forwarded to the budget

1:23:51review committee and that the public

1:23:53hearing scheduled for Monday, October 26

1:23:55be held on resolution R2664

1:23:59as amended.

1:24:01>> You've heard the motion. Is there

1:24:02discussion on that motion?

1:24:05Seeing none, all those in favor say I.

1:24:07>> I opposed. That motion carries

1:24:11unfinished business ordinances.

1:24:14Second reading of O-26-00002

1:24:18allowing electronic public comment for

1:24:21people with walking disabilities.

1:24:23Alderman Johnson.

1:24:24>> Yes. I move um for final passage of

1:24:290-26-002

1:24:31and I'd like to speak on it please.

1:24:33>> Alderman Johnson.

1:24:34>> Thank you. I know there's been a lot of

1:24:37talk on my ordinance. people didn't like

1:24:40the wording of um walking disability.

1:24:44So, I want to thank my two colleagues um

1:24:47Alderman Greg and Alderman Morgan

1:24:49because they kind of put their heads

1:24:51together with me and we did some changes

1:24:54which is on everybody's desk tonight.

1:24:59Um

1:25:02I would like to read it into the record,

1:25:04please. The changes.

1:25:07>> Is this an amendment? Are you making an

1:25:09amendment?

1:25:09>> Amendment. Excuse me. Yes. I like to

1:25:11amend it.

1:25:12>> Okay. What's your amendment?

1:25:13>> My amendment is a request

1:25:17uh request for remote public comment may

1:25:19be submitted at any time and shall be

1:25:21decided within five business days of

1:25:24receipt. An approved request shall

1:25:26remain in effect for 3 months. Renewal

1:25:29requests may be approved without new

1:25:31documentation when an individual's

1:25:33condition is unchanged.

1:25:36And I'd like to read the second part of

1:25:38it, too. Thank you. To participate

1:25:41remotely in board of alderman meetings

1:25:43as a reasonable accommodation under

1:25:45title two of the Americans with

1:25:46Disabilities Act, an individual shall

1:25:49provide documentation from a medical or

1:25:51other qualified provider of a disability

1:25:53that limits the individual's ability to

1:25:56participate in person. Request shall be

1:25:58decided within five business days of

1:26:01receipt. Documentation shall be kept

1:26:03confidential to the extent permitted by

1:26:05law. An individual whose request is

1:26:08denied may appeal in writing to

1:26:10corporation council who shall decide an

1:26:13appeal within five business days of

1:26:14receiving it.

1:26:17>> Thank you.

1:26:19>> So are you making a motion to

1:26:21>> I'm making a motion to amend. Thank you.

1:26:25>> Alman Clemens.

1:26:27>> Uh yes. Question on the amendment. Um,

1:26:29what what does does this replace

1:26:34uh does this replace language?

1:26:37Does it add language? What? Yeah,

1:26:40>> Johnson.

1:26:40>> Thank you. We're just adding the

1:26:42language to kind of um make everybody

1:26:46more understandable because there was

1:26:49questions about things were left out

1:26:50because I know Alderman Clemens, you

1:26:53know, um put in that would take effect

1:26:55November 15th and that um risk

1:26:59management would be the one that would

1:27:01determine the eligibility because we

1:27:03don't do it. We don't deal with ADA and

1:27:04that shouldn't be our job. We're just we

1:27:07just pass um ordinances and resolutions

1:27:10and vote on spending. That's basically

1:27:13it. So this way it will give people that

1:27:15opportunity. I think it closes the gaps

1:27:18of the question because people talked

1:27:20about we didn't like the walking

1:27:21disability. Um so this kind of defines

1:27:25it under ADA title two and that's where

1:27:28your decision would be made under the

1:27:31law.

1:27:32>> Alman Clemens.

1:27:34>> Yeah. So does does this amendment

1:27:36include the things made the amended the

1:27:38amendments made at committee and add

1:27:41this?

1:27:43>> Yes.

1:27:44>> Okay.

1:27:48>> All the men down.

1:27:49>> Yeah. Just for clarification, I think

1:27:51that when we say remote public comment

1:27:55may be submitted, we should probably add

1:27:57to whom

1:27:59>> I well, we had excuse me,

1:28:01>> I know it's in maybe in a previous

1:28:04paragraph, but for clarification, it

1:28:06should be here as well.

1:28:10>> Management ADA specialist.

1:28:12[clears throat]

1:28:12>> So, you're amending the amendment to add

1:28:15>> specialist risk management. Yes. Thank

1:28:17you.

1:28:19Further discussion

1:28:22Alderman Greg.

1:28:23>> Thank you, Madam President. So, I think

1:28:25with this amendment, what we're trying

1:28:26to do here, um what um Alderman Johnson

1:28:29is trying to do is make this when you

1:28:31look at our timeline, we talked about

1:28:33this legislation. It was talked about in

1:28:34committee and it's such a short timeline

1:28:36between when we have our um what's going

1:28:40to be um coming up and then having that

1:28:43done. And I don't think that two days

1:28:45like we get our schedule on Friday and

1:28:47then we have Monday sometimes and then

1:28:49Tuesday. So this is a more reasonable

1:28:51way and it sets a clear expectation. It

1:28:54also sets a time frame of 3 months which

1:28:56a lot of times if somebody has a

1:28:57temporary uh disability maybe they have

1:29:00had surgery or something 10 to 12 weeks

1:29:02is a pretty normal time. So it kind of

1:29:04sets that um and for a longer term it it

1:29:09doesn't make an unfair position too

1:29:11where people have to continue to bring

1:29:13in their um their um gosh form and have

1:29:18that completely resubmitted. So I think

1:29:20this is an important uh piece of

1:29:22legislation and I think this is an

1:29:24important step for us and uh this

1:29:27amendment just kind of refineses that

1:29:28and gives some clearer expectations on

1:29:30that.

1:29:31>> Thank you Aldman Sullivan. Thank you. Uh

1:29:35going back to the committee, there was

1:29:37talk of a start date on this and I don't

1:29:41recall uh if if there was I didn't see

1:29:44one on the ordinance. Um I do recall it

1:29:48being discussed. I don't recall if it

1:29:50passed or not. So I'm just asking the

1:29:52question.

1:29:55>> You have the answer on

1:29:56>> it did. It was November 15th.

1:30:00>> November

1:30:00>> and that passed. Sorry. in the

1:30:02committee. It did and it's under

1:30:04discussion tonight right now from what

1:30:06from my understanding.

1:30:10>> Alman,

1:30:11>> I'm going to let him speak because he

1:30:12hasn't spoken yet. Alman Senate and then

1:30:14Alderman Don.

1:30:15>> Uh thank you, Madam President. I

1:30:16actually had a question along those same

1:30:19lines procedurally. Um as I I wasn't

1:30:23present for that meeting, but I I

1:30:25certainly watched the discussion and as

1:30:27I recall there were amendments um

1:30:30presented at that meeting. I can't

1:30:32recall off the top of my head if they

1:30:33passed or not. I'm hearing that they did

1:30:37um from Alderman Clemens. Um but if

1:30:40that's the case, then wouldn't those

1:30:42have been the first things that we would

1:30:44have voted on here tonight? Is the

1:30:46um the ordinance as amended?

1:30:49>> That's leading me to wonder if maybe

1:30:51those amendments did not pass at

1:30:53committee.

1:30:54>> Donna has something to say.

1:30:56>> Okay. [laughter]

1:30:57>> Excuse me. um the motions that had

1:31:01failed. So the recommendation from

1:31:04personnel was to bring it with no

1:31:06recommendation to the board of alderman

1:31:09>> as originally written.

1:31:10>> As originally written

1:31:11>> Okay. Thank you. That clarifies it. So

1:31:12the only amendment that's before us

1:31:14right now is the one that has been

1:31:16offered tonight by alderman Johnson.

1:31:17>> That is correct.

1:31:18>> All right. Thank you,

1:31:21>> Alderman Johnson.

1:31:22>> Thank you. I would like to amend this

1:31:25further

1:31:26>> and then where I am going to no if I'm

1:31:28what the motions that failed in

1:31:31committee

1:31:31>> order you there's already been one

1:31:33amendment an amendment to the amendment

1:31:35you can't go a third

1:31:36>> can't go three deep okay so

1:31:41who else had their hand up alderman Da

1:31:43did too

1:31:44>> well I

1:31:47answered the question because my

1:31:48question was when you look online at the

1:31:50ordinance all you see is the original

1:31:52without anything that happened at the

1:31:54committee. So, we as a board have never

1:31:56actually seen any revised ordinance

1:31:59other than what we're trying to do

1:32:01tonight. And I'm just wondering whether

1:32:07if it if those failed at the at the

1:32:12committee level. I'm I'm

1:32:15I'm I'm sort of in favor of what we're

1:32:17trying to do, but I want to make sure

1:32:19we're doing it right. And and I'm not

1:32:22sure that we're going about this the

1:32:25correct way.

1:32:27And the other thing is when we finally

1:32:30decide how this is all going to work, I

1:32:32think we need a procedure

1:32:36out of this so that

1:32:39when somebody's trying to

1:32:42run the Zoom part of this that they know

1:32:44what they're doing. And and uh my other

1:32:48question would be who's going to be on

1:32:51the Zoom making all these decisions on

1:32:54who is and isn't available to come in? I

1:32:57in my thinking it can't be Donna sitting

1:32:59up there. She has too much to do. So who

1:33:03I mean I don't have a problem with

1:33:04somebody doing it. I just like to know

1:33:06who and and how we're doing that.

1:33:09>> Okay. I saw Alderman Morgan's hand up

1:33:12first.

1:33:13>> Thank you, Madam President. Um through

1:33:14you to corporation council. Um, I think

1:33:18I can speak for many of us here when we

1:33:21were a little confused about how this

1:33:23ordinance came up to us from committee

1:33:26because in committee it had passed with

1:33:29the date uh change and also the the

1:33:32language change saying all persons with

1:33:34disabilities as stated under um article

1:33:362 and believe that it was just this

1:33:40amendment that would need to be done. So

1:33:42would you tell us what would be the

1:33:44correct where do we go from here? Give

1:33:46us a road map to pass this plus the

1:33:51other two changes that we were under the

1:33:53impression were already made.

1:33:55>> Okay. I think there's a funal mis

1:33:58fundamental misunderstanding of what

1:34:01happens in committees.

1:34:03Committees can make recommendations to

1:34:06this board. They can make a

1:34:09recommendation to pass a piece of

1:34:12legislation as it exists. They can make

1:34:15a recommendation to reject

1:34:19a piece of legislation as it exists

1:34:23to indefinitely postpone.

1:34:26They can make a recommendation to amend.

1:34:30It is a recommendation.

1:34:32The committee cannot amend a piece of

1:34:36legislation. Only this board can recom

1:34:40can actually amend the legislation. So

1:34:45you saw an example of that just a few

1:34:48minutes ago when a matter was withdrawn

1:34:53from committee in order that this board

1:34:55could make an amendment to it before

1:34:57re-referring it to committee so that the

1:35:00public hearing could be held on the

1:35:04legislation as amended.

1:35:07So that's the first thing. Second thing

1:35:12you can't

1:35:15It's it's not going to be comprehensible

1:35:19to whoever was going to put this

1:35:20together and codify it in the ordinance

1:35:23book and and on the website to just read

1:35:28this language without saying where it

1:35:31goes and what language comes out of the

1:35:37ordinance as originally introduced. So

1:35:40if for example

1:35:42in this new language it doesn't talk

1:35:44about walking disability. It talks about

1:35:47any disability

1:35:49that limits participation.

1:35:52Right? So maybe you want to include an

1:35:55amendment to the title to eliminate the

1:35:58word walking.

1:36:00>> Maybe you want to leave in the language

1:36:04that says the city of Nashville ordains

1:36:07that part one admin

1:36:10legislation chapter 5 da da da da da is

1:36:13amended so that this language that you

1:36:17want gets inserted in the correct place.

1:36:20Maybe you want to make it

1:36:23specify that the language now in the

1:36:28resolution as originally as the

1:36:30ordinance as originally proposed

1:36:33is deleted by amendment because right

1:36:36now all of this stays and this gets

1:36:39tacked on presumably at the end.

1:36:43The other thing I will say is

1:36:46the office of corporation council should

1:36:48not be part of the process of approving,

1:36:51denying or appealing because at some

1:36:54point we are likely to wind up in

1:36:58litigation or administrative

1:37:01procedures

1:37:03under the ADA act or the state law

1:37:07equivalent.

1:37:08And it'll be that office that is going

1:37:12to provide the defense to the city and

1:37:15say that what the city has done is in

1:37:17compliance with the law or at least try

1:37:20and make the best deal we can to be for

1:37:24the benefit of the city. If you

1:37:28put the cor the office of corporation

1:37:30council as part of the proceedings, we

1:37:33will not be able to do our job in

1:37:36defending the city when there is

1:37:38litigation or administrative procedures.

1:37:41Now, if you want to have to hire outside

1:37:43counsel, that's another expense that

1:37:46you're providing for needlessly.

1:37:50Now, [sighs]

1:37:51we could help you with all of this, but

1:37:53this seems to have come up like this

1:37:56afternoon,

1:37:58>> and

1:38:00Dory was out who had been working with

1:38:04Thomman Johnson on a different

1:38:07amendment.

1:38:09Um, and I think that was part of what

1:38:12was considered at committee, but other

1:38:14things might have been considered at

1:38:15committee also.

1:38:17But frankly, I don't think you're ready

1:38:20for this right now. Now, you certainly

1:38:23don't have to

1:38:26provide

1:38:28for all of the procedures and tell the

1:38:32people who operate the video and so

1:38:36forth exactly how they're going to b go

1:38:38about doing it. Correct.

1:38:40>> You can basically

1:38:43point or expect them to determine some

1:38:46efficient manner. And if they tell you

1:38:48it's impossible, well, they'll come back

1:38:51and tell you that, I presume.

1:38:54On the other hand, it may be that you

1:38:57don't need a lot of this. The city is

1:39:02subject to the Americans with

1:39:03Disabilities Act.

1:39:05>> You can't change that. You can't pass

1:39:08something that that that

1:39:12does less than that.

1:39:15So to a large extent

1:39:18everything you want is already covered

1:39:22and there's one person of whom I'm aware

1:39:26that has requested an accommodation

1:39:30and there's an interactive exchange

1:39:33going on between that requesttor and the

1:39:37risk department who's managing the ADA

1:39:40compliance for the city discussing what

1:39:43is a reasonable accommodation under the

1:39:46circumstances.

1:39:48I don't know when that's going to be

1:39:49resolved. I am not a part of that, but I

1:39:52know that is what the law contemplates

1:39:55that there is a

1:39:58interactive exchange concerning what's

1:40:01an appropriate accommodation

1:40:04and my understanding is that is taking

1:40:05place.

1:40:07You can do more than the law requires.

1:40:11You can decide everybody, anybody

1:40:14anywhere could participate remotely by

1:40:19video. Um, what you can't do is less

1:40:22than the ADA requires be done and that's

1:40:25being done. May not be being done as

1:40:28rapidly as some people like. I think

1:40:31that's unfortunate,

1:40:33but

1:40:35that's uh what I have to say on the

1:40:37process.

1:40:38>> Followup.

1:40:39>> Yes. Thank you for taking the time to go

1:40:42through that. Um, I have a follow-up

1:40:44question.

1:40:46So,

1:40:47my takeaway from what you said is

1:40:52we say vote no on this current

1:40:54amendment, which is with the language

1:40:55that was printed out and is in front of

1:40:57us. And then from there we could then

1:41:01make a motion to add in what we had

1:41:04discussed in committee which was

1:41:06changing the title all persons with

1:41:08disabilities and an effective start date

1:41:11to give our staff whom we trust to do

1:41:15their job well and know what needs to be

1:41:17done and not dictate to them how to do

1:41:19their job.

1:41:21And then if down the road if you say,

1:41:25"Hey, we forgot to put in X, Y, or Z.

1:41:28Legal would like to make this

1:41:29amendment." We could do that at that

1:41:31time. Is that correct?

1:41:35>> You

1:41:37you depends what you want to do. I mean,

1:41:41it's possible to imagine things that

1:41:43would violate the law that someone might

1:41:46want to do, but absent that, this board

1:41:49can

1:41:51pass something and then amend it and

1:41:54repeal it next week and and add to it,

1:41:58subtract from it

1:42:01what what the board considers

1:42:04appropriate.

1:42:06I I do think you want to have your

1:42:08actions done in a way that becomes

1:42:12comprehensible so that what you want to

1:42:15have happen is the result that's

1:42:17achieved.

1:42:20>> Thank you.

1:42:22>> Okay. I have Alman Clemens.

1:42:24>> Thank you.

1:42:25So, I I I appreciate the commentary from

1:42:29Corporation Council because

1:42:32I thought we had it right in committee

1:42:36and I think the amendment tonight is not

1:42:39something I can support because it's too

1:42:43um

1:42:45prescriptive

1:42:47to what our [clears throat] um

1:42:51it it's too prescriptive to But,

1:42:56you know, to to our city departments, I

1:42:58I I think that the risk department can

1:43:00figure it out.

1:43:02They know the process. Let them do it

1:43:04rather than it being dictated from us.

1:43:07Um,

1:43:08you know, let them determine the

1:43:10eligibility, right? So, if a person, you

1:43:13know, we can add in if if we don't think

1:43:15that three business days is enough time,

1:43:17you know, certainly we could change that

1:43:19to like five

1:43:21uh business days.

1:43:23Um, but you know, I I I liked the

1:43:28language that was there before. Um,

1:43:34[snorts] because it was it was simple

1:43:35and it let the risk it basically let our

1:43:39it let our department collaborate,

1:43:42right? Because here's here's what's

1:43:44going to happen. the I I

1:43:49what's going to happen is the

1:43:51legislative office

1:43:53uh it

1:43:56the folks who run the cameras and Zoom

1:43:59as well as Risk are going to have to get

1:44:01together and they're going to have to

1:44:02come up with some kind of process and

1:44:04how everything works. I do not want and

1:44:07nor do I think that the board of

1:44:08alderman should be involved in dictating

1:44:11how that goes. And I think this

1:44:14amendment, while well-intentioned

1:44:16tonight, goes a little too far down that

1:44:18road.

1:44:19Um, so what I would like to do is is

1:44:22stick with the original

1:44:24proposed amendment back in

1:44:27uh the from the committee and and you

1:44:30know, again, if we want to change it

1:44:32from three business days to five

1:44:33business days, that's that's fine. But

1:44:37um but that that would be my

1:44:39recommendation.

1:44:43I have a lot of I have a lot of names.

1:44:45Alderman Craig.

1:44:46>> Thank you, Madam President. So to

1:44:48corporation council, I I don't like to

1:44:52legislate if we don't have to legislate,

1:44:54if we already have something. So are you

1:44:55saying that on the record that if

1:44:57somebody right now cannot come in or has

1:44:59a disability, we already have a process

1:45:02that they can write in to have a Zoom?

1:45:05Um because I kind of thought that's what

1:45:08you know under ADA it's reasonable

1:45:09expectations but are they able to

1:45:12testify on Zoom currently or we would

1:45:14need to legislate that to make that

1:45:16possible?

1:45:17>> You don't need to legislate that.

1:45:21>> Right now the city is required to comply

1:45:24with the Americans with Disabilities

1:45:27Act. Where do we have this?

1:45:30>> One person has made a request

1:45:35That request is being evaluated and

1:45:38there is an exchange back and forth

1:45:40between the requesttor and the wrist

1:45:42department is my understanding. There

1:45:45have been certain

1:45:47>> Did someone say something?

1:45:48>> That's incorrect.

1:45:50>> Don't speak out. Not on the horseshoe.

1:45:52So,

1:45:54>> and

1:45:56my understanding is there have been

1:45:58replies

1:46:01replies back and a further reply where

1:46:05what is a reasonable accommodation which

1:46:08doesn't interfere with the nature of the

1:46:12uh activity is being discussed.

1:46:16So what I'm saying is if the ADA

1:46:19requires it and it and the ability to

1:46:23participate by Zoom is the reasonable

1:46:26accommodation, the city will be required

1:46:29to is required to make that available.

1:46:36>> Followup.

1:46:37>> Yes.

1:46:37>> So how can we ensure that it's because I

1:46:39I think that there's um the dividing

1:46:42line is here. We do have a re we have a

1:46:44reasonable way for them to communicate

1:46:45with us right now. They can email us um

1:46:48you know they can email the entire board

1:46:50but I know that the spoken word and you

1:46:53know people being able to express that

1:46:55is really really important. So right now

1:46:57we do have the ability to do the zoom

1:47:00because part of this is well how are we

1:47:02going to do zoom that's part of the

1:47:03arguments against it but we that could

1:47:05be it wouldn't be something where we say

1:47:08well you can just send in an email. We

1:47:09do have that that option right now where

1:47:12people could request a Zoom.

1:47:13>> I don't I don't believe that that is

1:47:18>> I believe accommodations of of Matt are

1:47:21being discussed.

1:47:23>> Okay. Thank you,

1:47:26Alderman Tibo.

1:47:27>> Thank you, Madam President. First, I

1:47:28want to thank Alderman Morgan and

1:47:30Alderman Greg for helping Alderman

1:47:32Johnson work with this. I like when

1:47:34alderman work together alike. Alderman

1:47:37are able to get together and work on

1:47:38something. Um, I can't support this. I I

1:47:41couldn't I'm against Zoom for everyone.

1:47:43[laughter] I just think it it's not the

1:47:45right way to go. But

1:47:47this thing keeps getting more convoluted

1:47:49every time we get it. We've talked about

1:47:50it several times in committee and it

1:47:52just gets more things added on to it.

1:47:54More we to Alderman Clemen's point, we

1:47:58the passer don't pass them. Let them

1:47:59figure out how to administrate it.

1:48:01That's not our job to figure out who's

1:48:03going to do it. That's that's somebody

1:48:05else's. We just decide on it or don't

1:48:07decide on it. But honestly, I don't know

1:48:09what we're doing here. Just open up Zoom

1:48:11to everyone. I I don't know why we're

1:48:12spending so much time going through this

1:48:15for one segment of the population when

1:48:17probably most of us can probably claim

1:48:19disability. I know I can and most of

1:48:22probably a lot of us can. So, why don't

1:48:24we just open it up? What are we doing?

1:48:26And why are we only doing it for one one

1:48:28meeting? Why aren't we doing it for

1:48:29committees? Oh, Commissioner Shay wants

1:48:32it for Board of Public Works. Let's do

1:48:33it. What are we waiting for? Committees

1:48:35is where a lot of the work happens. So

1:48:37why would we say we just want people to

1:48:39do it in board of alderman but

1:48:40committees? No, can't do it in

1:48:42committees. But planning board does it?

1:48:44That's a committee. So I don't know why

1:48:46we don't do it in there. So we want to

1:48:49do that. I'd be in support of it. Let's

1:48:51open it up for everyone. And I don't

1:48:52like Zoom, but I'd be in support of that

1:48:53because I think that's the right way to

1:48:55go because this is convoluted. Trying to

1:48:57figure out all these three day, five

1:48:58day, this, that. What do they submit?

1:49:00Who reviews it? It's it just seems too

1:49:03out of control. Just make it easy. Just

1:49:06make it easy. Open it up to everybody.

1:49:09>> Oldman Johnson.

1:49:11>> Thank you. I tried to make this very

1:49:14easy when I um submitted the ordinance

1:49:18to the uh personnel administrative bath

1:49:20committee. All I did was take the RSA

1:49:24from the state. We got hung up on the

1:49:26word walking disabilities. But we can be

1:49:30more restrictive than less restrictive

1:49:32than the federal government. You know,

1:49:34it defined every it defined arthritis.

1:49:38It defined medical conditions. It

1:49:39defined lung problems. It defined

1:49:42everything that a person who has a

1:49:45disability and every and most of the

1:49:48committee didn't like it. Cardiac

1:49:50condition, you know, that's that's not a

1:49:53walking, that's a medical condition, but

1:49:55it causes you not to be able to walk a

1:49:58lot of through a lot of areas. like if

1:50:01you have a cardiac condition, you can

1:50:02park your car, but you might not be able

1:50:04to walk a block or two. But it it talked

1:50:08about lung disease. So, I tried to make

1:50:10it simple. ADA, title two of ADA

1:50:14requires local governments, as attorney

1:50:16Bolton said, to give people with

1:50:18disabilities an equal opportunity, the

1:50:20word is equal opportunity, to benefit

1:50:23from their program, services, and

1:50:25activities. Local governments can't deny

1:50:27people with disabilities the chance to

1:50:29participate participate or make them

1:50:32participate in different programs than

1:50:33others than available to others. All I

1:50:36wanted to do was give people an

1:50:38opportunity and I started small in order

1:50:42to see how it worked because on the

1:50:45committee meetings we don't have Miss

1:50:47Ray or Mr. Healey here to run

1:50:50everything. So it would be a whole big

1:50:52new process of people learning. I went

1:50:54to it. I did the leg work on all this to

1:50:58make sure it could work. And all I did

1:51:00was get stonewalled attitudes. And I'm

1:51:04going to say it from the committee

1:51:06chairwoman on everything. All I wanted

1:51:09to do was just be able to for people who

1:51:11cannot walk or had a medical problem to

1:51:15be able to talk with us through Zoom.

1:51:19But according to our attorney, we don't

1:51:22even have to have legislation.

1:51:24The federal government says we can do

1:51:27this. So the question is, are we in

1:51:29violation of the federal government

1:51:32under ADA title two? May I ask that

1:51:36through the chair? You can ask.

1:51:39>> My understanding is there's only been

1:51:41one pending request and that's being

1:51:44worked on. you you don't get in

1:51:47violation

1:51:49until you've denied someone that

1:51:51opportunity

1:51:54that that there as as I understand it

1:51:56there's been no final denial

1:51:59that request is being

1:52:02engaged in in discussion.

1:52:05>> May I respond? Yes.

1:52:07>> Well, that's not true, Attorney Bolton,

1:52:09because last year when I had my broken

1:52:11kneecap, I requested to be able to zoom

1:52:15because I could not walk and I was

1:52:17denied by the ADA specialist. And he

1:52:20went to the Department of Transportation

1:52:22to ask if in fact I should be able to

1:52:26zoom. And I spoke to the person of the

1:52:29Department of Transportation. I have all

1:52:30my notes clear and the name of the

1:52:32person. and I was denied that right to

1:52:36be able to zoom. And he told your ADA

1:52:39specialist, I would suggest you allow

1:52:41her to zoom. My long-term memory is

1:52:44better than my short-term memory. And

1:52:46I'm

1:52:47>> I don't know anything about that.

1:52:48>> Well, I'm I'm making that comment

1:52:50because when you say no one's been

1:52:52denied, I was denied last year and

1:52:54that's why I had the chair. Although

1:52:56there was a comment that somebody said

1:52:57to me, maybe we should charge you for

1:53:00the chair. And I said to that person,

1:53:02maybe you should refund me all my taxes

1:53:04over the years. But but I know

1:53:06>> I was not involved in that. I know

1:53:07nothing about it.

1:53:08>> Well, I was involved.

1:53:09>> You asked me a question. I'm trying to

1:53:11answer your question.

1:53:12>> So

1:53:13>> I know of no current violation that's

1:53:17occurred.

1:53:18>> So all I'm saying is that I think the

1:53:22wording was good that we came I came in

1:53:25with attorney Clark. We made it simple.

1:53:28Alderman Clemens added risk management I

1:53:32believe in the committee and then the

1:53:35start date of November 15. I would

1:53:37withdraw my amendment. Thank you.

1:53:39>> Thank you. Next I have Alderman

1:53:41Sullivan.

1:53:42>> Thank you. uh through you to um

1:53:45corporation council. Um if I if I'm

1:53:48hearing you correctly and I I'm familiar

1:53:50with the back and forth and what was

1:53:52offered as far as uh I wrote it down

1:53:54appropriate accommodations

1:53:57and and Zoom wasn't on the menu of

1:53:58choices. Is it

1:54:02are are we just overthinking this where

1:54:04we can just say we're the the city of

1:54:06NSHA um says that Zoom in the city of

1:54:11Nshawa is uh an appropriate

1:54:14accommodation for uh folks with

1:54:16disabilities.

1:54:18>> Isn't it that

1:54:19>> Well, you could suppose the disability

1:54:22is colorblindness.

1:54:25Suppose it the the particular disability

1:54:27doesn't interfere with giving public

1:54:29comment. Is that really what you're

1:54:32asking?

1:54:32>> No, what I'm asking is

1:54:35it I mean under this ordinance we we

1:54:38were talking about the

1:54:41um the walking disability and now it

1:54:43seems like we're we've now gone to uh

1:54:46under title two of the American dis. So,

1:54:49I'm okay with refining it, but I'm just

1:54:51trying to understand if we're there. You

1:54:54know, there's a lot of words here and

1:54:55and just going off what you said, are we

1:54:58just overthinking it? And that we all we

1:55:00want to do is just say we want to add

1:55:02Zoom when when when uh when a resident

1:55:06who can't make it into city hall wants

1:55:09to speak on an issue and we say you can

1:55:12do A, B, or C, all we're looking to do

1:55:14is add one choice. Can't make it because

1:55:17of a disability or can't make it because

1:55:20of other reasons.

1:55:21>> Can't make it because of a disability.

1:55:24>> Okay. Well, see, it's complicated. I

1:55:26don't know that it's being overly

1:55:28complicated, but it just the fact is it

1:55:31is complicated.

1:55:34>> You could certainly say Zoom

1:55:37participation is going to be available

1:55:40to everyone

1:55:42for all meetings.

1:55:44Um there's nothing illegal about doing

1:55:47that. You have the power to do that. Uh

1:55:51it's it's a question of whether you want

1:55:52to. But if you want to track the

1:55:57Americans with Disabilities Act,

1:56:00>> well that there are

1:56:04a qualified disability is disabil is a

1:56:07disability that limits the participation

1:56:10in the program or activity. So that's an

1:56:13analysis that has to be done. Now and

1:56:18then reasonable accommodation

1:56:21also pertains to would the requested

1:56:25accommodation interfere with the nature

1:56:27of the program or activity? Would it

1:56:30create an undue burden or expense?

1:56:34So

1:56:38you you can make these decisions.

1:56:42I suppose in a general fashion,

1:56:46but the ADA doesn't anticipate you doing

1:56:49that. So, you're going beyond what the

1:56:52ADA would require.

1:56:56>> A comment if I may

1:56:59>> before I hand that off.

1:57:01>> Yes.

1:57:02>> Uh, this ordinance has been filed since

1:57:043F. It's 13 October and we're still

1:57:06having this conversation. I don't

1:57:08understand why it didn't happen earlier.

1:57:11That's my comment.

1:57:13>> Alderman Senate.

1:57:15>> Thank you, Madam President. Uh that's

1:57:17exciting. I get to take it in a

1:57:18different direction. Um

1:57:21because I have to agree with the um with

1:57:24the commentary that it is becoming

1:57:28complicated. Now, to be clear, I was in

1:57:31favor of the original ordinance as

1:57:33Alderman Johnson wrote it. I was in

1:57:36favor of the amended ordinance that

1:57:39didn't make it to us tonight. I'm in

1:57:42favor of Zoom in general and I've been

1:57:44in favor of that uh since it was

1:57:46eliminated in August of 2022. Um I

1:57:50actually spoke at that meeting, not as a

1:57:52member of this board via Zoom uh because

1:57:55I um had a COVID exposure and didn't

1:57:59want to share that with uh you folks

1:58:01that were sitting in the chamber at the

1:58:02time. Um

1:58:06the the broader point that I want to

1:58:08make um that's been pointed out is why

1:58:11are we legislating this? And I have to

1:58:12agree with that question. Um Zoom was

1:58:15eliminated on the back of a um a

1:58:19communication from you, Madam President,

1:58:21that asked the board if we could have a

1:58:23discussion on whether or not to continue

1:58:26uh remote participation in meetings. Um,

1:58:28and then following that communication, a

1:58:31motion that night to terminate public

1:58:33access to Zoom via public meetings. We

1:58:36got rid of it that [clears throat]

1:58:38quickly. It seems to me that if we

1:58:40wanted to bring it back, which I

1:58:42wholeheartedly do, we can just make that

1:58:44motion to reimplement um Zoom uh public

1:58:49access for uh for board of alderman

1:58:53meetings and standing committees. I

1:58:56haven't quite organized my thoughts

1:58:57enough to decide if I'm just going a go

1:58:59ahead and make that motion, but I think

1:59:01that's uh food for thought in the

1:59:02discussion. Thank you.

1:59:04>> You alman Clemens.

1:59:06>> Thank you. I'm going to make an

1:59:08amendment. I'm going to propose an

1:59:09amendment.

1:59:11Uh and this is uh slightly modified from

1:59:14what was in the uh committee.

1:59:18So, the title of the ordinance,

1:59:21allowing electronic public comment for

1:59:24people with disabilities as defined in

1:59:27the Americans with Disabilities Act,

1:59:31section 12,

1:59:34any person with a disability as defined

1:59:36in Americans with Disability Act,

1:59:39parenthesis C42 US Code 12102 and

1:59:44parenthesis,

1:59:46may electronically participate In public

1:59:48comment at a full board of alderman

1:59:50meeting if at least five business days

1:59:53prior to an upcoming meeting, the person

1:59:55notifies the board of alderman's office

1:59:58of their intent to participate in public

2:00:01comment at a full board of alderman

2:00:04meeting and provides documentation of

2:00:07their disability.

2:00:08The risk management department shall

2:00:10determine the eligibility. The effective

2:00:14date of this ordinance shall be November

2:00:1615, 2026.

2:00:19And I'd like to speak to that

2:00:22>> Clemens.

2:00:23>> This was what was

2:00:26discussed in committee exactly uh with

2:00:29the exception of in the committee it was

2:00:32three business days instead of five.

2:00:34Um

2:00:36what was discussed in committee is that

2:00:38this is going off of the Americans with

2:00:41Disabilities Act and it is particular to

2:00:45that section of US code that I had laid

2:00:48out. Um so a person would have to

2:00:54fit within that definition of the US

2:00:56code. Um

2:00:59the risk management department would

2:01:02determine their eligibility

2:01:04and again having an effective date

2:01:07starting November 15th gives all the

2:01:11relative departments about a month to

2:01:13get this done before the second meeting

2:01:17in November.

2:01:20So that that is the um my amendment and

2:01:24I hope that uh you all will support it.

2:01:28Aldman Morgan.

2:01:30>> Thank you, Madam Chair. I was going to

2:01:33say everything that my colleague just

2:01:35said, um, but went ahead and said it for

2:01:37me. Um, so I will just reiterate that

2:01:41yes,

2:01:43technically in theory, but not in

2:01:46practice, we allow those with

2:01:48disabilities to join uh via Zoom. This

2:01:51was sent um originally in February. It

2:01:55was our second ordinance of the year. Um

2:01:59and since then someone has sent in um

2:02:03the accommodation request and has been

2:02:05denied. This was not written because of

2:02:08that person. So that story is inaccurate

2:02:12and I don't like the way that that's

2:02:13being painted. So I would just like to

2:02:16make that clear and um hope that you

2:02:18support with the amendment that my

2:02:21colleague had just made.

2:02:24Alderman Rea.

2:02:26>> Uh, thank you, Madam Chairman. Um,

2:02:30I have to agree

2:02:33um with Alderman Senate and Alderman

2:02:35Tibo.

2:02:37Uh, this is too complicated.

2:02:40There's nothing wrong in the 21st

2:02:42century

2:02:44with Zoom.

2:02:46We can do it. I do it at home. There's a

2:02:50bunch of people there. There are 20 or

2:02:5330 people in meetings. There are 50

2:02:55people in meetings. It's not rocket

2:02:58science anymore.

2:03:01And if we simply allow Zoom access for

2:03:06anyone that wants to participate in our

2:03:09already public meetings,

2:03:12I think that should be fine by us. Thank

2:03:15you,

2:03:17>> Alderman Tibo.

2:03:18>> Thank you, Madam President. Um,

2:03:21a couple things. I mean, I just want to

2:03:23say that we can do Zoom, but like Board

2:03:25of Education couldn't, so because they

2:03:27don't have the the technology set up.

2:03:29Um, and I think they should be also part

2:03:31of that, to be honest. They should set

2:03:32it up. Um, if we're going to do it. Uh,

2:03:36so I I mean, I'm still not going to vote

2:03:38for Why are we legislating something

2:03:40that is already built into this the

2:03:42federal law? Like, I don't understand

2:03:44why we have to make it into our law if

2:03:46it's already a law. like I don't get

2:03:49that. I don't understand what we're

2:03:50doing here. I would also um

2:03:54like to um and and to Alderman

2:03:56Sullivan's point, I mean, we got this

2:03:58legislation. Legislation shouldn't just

2:04:00be passed or not passed right away.

2:04:02Sometimes you got to talk about it. Uh I

2:04:04know at one point the chairwoman wanted

2:04:06legal to come in, so we waited till

2:04:08legal could come in to one of our We

2:04:09only meet once a month. Um it's not like

2:04:11we meet every other week like some

2:04:13committees. Um so, uh I don't even know

2:04:16if we met every single month. And I know

2:04:18Alderman Johnson was getting some stuff

2:04:19and and getting it changed. So things

2:04:22happened. That happens. It's there's no

2:04:24like, you know, there was one meeting

2:04:25where we didn't take it off the table

2:04:27and maybe we should have and you know, I

2:04:29agree with Alderman Clemens. We probably

2:04:30should have taken it off the table. So

2:04:32we did, I guess, stall one meeting, but

2:04:34outside of that, there was no stalling.

2:04:36Um, so I don't want to make it sound

2:04:38like this was on the table and and we

2:04:40just didn't care or wanted to try to

2:04:42keep it there. That wasn't the point.

2:04:43Even this last time it was 22. it failed

2:04:46and we put it here as a not, you know,

2:04:49not supporting it. Basically, the two of

2:04:51us didn't support it, so it fails. Um,

2:04:53we didn't have five members at the time.

2:04:55So, uh, but I would I would like to

2:04:57corporation council through you to

2:04:59corporation council. We just heard an

2:05:00accusation that someone was denied. Can

2:05:02you speak to that at all? Because we're

2:05:04hearing that what you were saying is

2:05:06inaccurate. And I'm just kind of curious

2:05:08who's right. Is it Alderman Morgan or or

2:05:10Corporation Council? There was an

2:05:12applicant

2:05:22accommodations

2:05:23were offered.

2:05:25There has been a response back from the

2:05:30requesttor

2:05:31and a further communication from the

2:05:35risk department.

2:05:37They have not yet agreed as to what is a

2:05:41reasonable accommodation to my

2:05:43knowledge. Maybe they agreed and didn't

2:05:45tell me, but that's that's that's what I

2:05:49know of the situation and I don't know

2:05:52that I've seen every piece of

2:05:54communication that's gone back and

2:05:56forth, but those are the ones that I am

2:05:58generally aware of.

2:05:59>> Thank you.

2:06:02>> You all set? Alderman Tibo?

2:06:04>> I'm all set.

2:06:05>> Alderman Senate. Thank you, Madam

2:06:06President. Um, on the amendment, I want

2:06:09to thank my um, my colleague at large,

2:06:11Alderman Clemens, for uh, bringing these

2:06:13up. Earlier in the um, discussion, I had

2:06:16asked about the the procedure from

2:06:19committee to this point and um, and I

2:06:23and I understand how we got here, but I

2:06:25just went back and um, pulled those um,

2:06:28the summary minutes of the personnel

2:06:30meeting where this was heard and sent to

2:06:32us with no recommendation. And I do just

2:06:34want to point out for again food for

2:06:36thought for the discussion that prior to

2:06:40the recommendation for final passage as

2:06:43amended that ultimately led to just the

2:06:46original ordinance being sent with no

2:06:48recommendation.

2:06:49The amendments that Alderman Clemens

2:06:51offered just tonight um with the caveat

2:06:54of changes that he made this evening,

2:06:57those amendments did pass committee.

2:07:00>> Um

2:07:00>> they did.

2:07:01>> They did. That's it's right here. The

2:07:04the motions by Alderman Clemens to amend

2:07:06and then to further amend. And those

2:07:08motions were carried. I believe the

2:07:10reason they didn't get to us was because

2:07:12the motion to recommend as amended did

2:07:15not pass. So these amendments were

2:07:18palpable to the majority of that

2:07:20committee. Um so I think that's worth

2:07:22considering as we consider this

2:07:24amendment here tonight. Thank you,

2:07:26>> Alderman Greg.

2:07:28>> Um thank you, Madam President. I just

2:07:29wanted to thank my colleague um Alderman

2:07:32Cle alderman at large Clemens for um uh

2:07:35giving us this amendment in this plain

2:07:37language. I think that um even though we

2:07:40currently have a process where we have

2:07:42to um accommodate people, I think this

2:07:45shows I do think after hearing this

2:07:48discussion, we are going to need to

2:07:49legislate some of this because I do

2:07:51think that we need to have it on record

2:07:53that we find it important that um our

2:07:56constituents be able to speak with us

2:07:58and that we are able to see them

2:08:00communicate with us on Zoom. So, I

2:08:03appreciate that uh amendment and I'm

2:08:04happy to support it.

2:08:06>> Alderman Dow

2:08:09Yeah,

2:08:11I sort of really don't have a problem

2:08:12with the amendment

2:08:14as alderman at large Clemens

2:08:18presented it. I would never be in favor

2:08:21of opening up generally to zoom. We'll

2:08:24never get out of these meetings and you

2:08:27know we didn't have a great

2:08:29representation on that type of activity

2:08:32during COVID. We did it because of the

2:08:34pandemic, but we had so many problems

2:08:37that, you know, it was ridiculous. Now,

2:08:42I think that

2:08:44first of all, I'm not sure we need

2:08:46legislation because I think ADA covers

2:08:48it. And if somebody asks for an

2:08:50accommodation,

2:08:52I think we could let them put in

2:08:54something that they're cleared for three

2:08:56months and and can come in at any time

2:08:59during that three months if they have

2:09:01that disability. But that's changing the

2:09:03ordinance again. Again, I'm not sure we

2:09:06need an ordinance. I I think ADA covers

2:09:08it. You know, we're trying to legislate

2:09:09a federal issue.

2:09:12Um,

2:09:15but I I think that what we're trying to

2:09:19do in Alderman Clemens, and I assume

2:09:22that the language you stated is all that

2:09:24will be in the legislation. Okay.

2:09:29And I'm wondering whether we should have

2:09:30a trial period.

2:09:33You want to start at November 15th, say

2:09:35it goes till uh February 15th and see

2:09:39how it works. Uh otherwise we're back

2:09:41here and have to take legislation and

2:09:44then we'd be in a prop, you know, going

2:09:46through taking away 88.

2:09:49Uh, and I assume in your legislation

2:09:53that it only allows people to

2:09:55participate in Zoom on the first public

2:09:57comment period.

2:10:00Once that's done that, they don't they

2:10:02can't be on Zoom anymore. If that's not

2:10:05the case, I'm not supporting it.

2:10:10>> Alvin Smith.

2:10:12>> Thank you, Madam President. Um,

2:10:16my head's about to explode. So, one of

2:10:18in my other role, I actually supervise

2:10:20disability support services for a couple

2:10:23of institutions. So, one of the things I

2:10:25just wanted to share and I appreciate it

2:10:27hearing um our corporate council sort of

2:10:29remind us that we're we're required to

2:10:31follow um the ADA period. Um so, we're

2:10:35all if someone makes a request, we need

2:10:38to, you know, make an accommodation for

2:10:40that. So, I feel like there are two

2:10:41separate things here. one that I'm

2:10:45reading and seeing having to do with um

2:10:48allowing electronic public comment slash

2:10:51this period right there. So, there's a

2:10:52request for that. Um and when I start

2:10:55thinking about an accommodation or

2:10:57reasonable accommodation, that's going

2:10:58back to the ADA. And I think that we as

2:11:01the horseshoe, we don't determine what

2:11:03that reasonable accommodation might be,

2:11:06whether it's Zoom or not or depending on

2:11:08the disability. That's what the ADA is

2:11:10for. and we have individuals who will

2:11:12determine that. I think for us it's more

2:11:15about maybe individuals having more

2:11:17access or accessibility to the meetings

2:11:20and individuals wanting to be wanting to

2:11:22be able to participate without quote

2:11:25being here physically whether that is a

2:11:28Zoom or something else but whatever the

2:11:31electronic um public comment however

2:11:33that would be allowed whether that was

2:11:35is just audio or audio and video which

2:11:38is something separate um and and Zoom

2:11:42might work for some but to me that

2:11:43separate because when I hear Zoom, that

2:11:46doesn't necessarily mean that that's a

2:11:47reasonable accommodation for all

2:11:50individuals. So, that's why I'm keeping

2:11:51that separate. So, I don't think we need

2:11:54to legislate um ADA because we already

2:11:57have that. Once again, anyone can make a

2:11:59request and then we would be required to

2:12:01be to provide um what would be a

2:12:04reasonable accommodation depending on

2:12:06that individual's documented disability,

2:12:09etc., etc. But I think there is a

2:12:12request that's out here for individuals

2:12:14to be able to participate but not

2:12:16necessarily be right here in this

2:12:19meeting, you know, physically. So, it's

2:12:21a matter of looking at how do we allow

2:12:23for electronic or public comment for

2:12:26individuals who for whatever reason

2:12:28cannot physically be here. Um, we do it

2:12:31in some ways for individuals whether um

2:12:34and it should be for all meetings. I

2:12:36don't think we should limit it if we're

2:12:37going to allow it. it should be

2:12:39available for whatever committee or

2:12:43committee meeting or board meeting if

2:12:45we're saying that we're our goal is to

2:12:47increase participation and to allow our

2:12:50citizens to be able to participate. So,

2:12:52just wanted to put that out there. But

2:12:54we don't need to legislate something

2:12:57that's already been legislated and that

2:12:59is the ADA.

2:13:01>> Alman Tibo.

2:13:03>> Thank you, Madam President. So again, I

2:13:05don't think we need a law to to tell us

2:13:07what the law already tells us. Um, you

2:13:09know, I can tell I'll put it on record

2:13:11right now. I want to follow whatever the

2:13:12ADA guidelines are for disabilities to

2:13:14be able to zoom in. Boom. There it is.

2:13:16It's on record. So, we don't need to to

2:13:18put it down in a in an actual ordinance.

2:13:20The goal shouldn't be to put in laws

2:13:23that equal other laws that are out

2:13:26there. Um, we have a law that supersedes

2:13:28that. We wouldn't do that in the state.

2:13:29State has laws. We don't go to try to

2:13:31put in our own law that because we're

2:13:33not going to be able to supersede it.

2:13:34So, we should go by that and I support

2:13:36that. Um, the reason why we supported

2:13:40the amendments in committee was because

2:13:42if it did pass, I preferred it with the

2:13:44amendments. I was never going to vote

2:13:45for it, but if it passed, I wanted the

2:13:47amendments passed because those were

2:13:49better amendments were better for the

2:13:51bill than what it previously was. So

2:13:54that's why we did that even though we

2:13:56decided to send it uh with no no

2:13:59whatever.

2:14:00Thanks

2:14:02>> Alderman Johnson. Thank you. So if we

2:14:06already have a law ADA title two and if

2:14:09we're saying that we don't need this

2:14:11then by November 15th ADA title 2 takes

2:14:15effect immediately and then they have 5

2:14:19days to send in their request

2:14:22and it just takes over if we don't need

2:14:25if if this is what you're saying ADA we

2:14:27don't need to put any more laws on the

2:14:29books and this starts November 15th but

2:14:32if we don't have this on the books We're

2:14:34not going to have anything to follow any

2:14:37guidelines. This is our guideline. And

2:14:40the fact that what is a reasonable

2:14:43accommodation? It's a reasonable

2:14:44accommodation for the city to send an

2:14:46Uber to pick somebody up and then

2:14:49there's a liability on the city if that

2:14:52Uber gets into an accident because we

2:14:54hired them. What is that reasonable

2:14:56accommodation if that person can't walk

2:14:59because they have lung problems? Let's

2:15:01say. So to say a reasonable

2:15:03accommodation might be to send an Uber.

2:15:06When I read that, I was shocked. I was

2:15:09totally shocked. How could you do that

2:15:11to somebody? That's that's kind of like

2:15:14laughing in their face that they have a

2:15:16disability and we're just going to send

2:15:18an Uber. The mayor and I discussed that

2:15:20at a meeting last week. We said we

2:15:22offered to send her an Uber. We send an

2:15:24Uber to pick somebody up. I mean, what

2:15:27happens if she needed help to get into

2:15:28the vehicle? You're having a stranger

2:15:30help somebody that you don't even know

2:15:32who they are and if they get into an

2:15:33accident, who then is liable for this?

2:15:35This really is a violation, I would say,

2:15:38in my opinion, of ADA, and it's a smack

2:15:41in the face to a citizen. Thank you,

2:15:44>> Alderman Clemens.

2:15:45>> Thank you.

2:15:47The So, the importance of having this

2:15:52ordinance is

2:15:55for the following reason.

2:15:58This states that the board of alderman

2:16:03is giving this option to folks who

2:16:07qualify under that particular section of

2:16:09US code as disabled.

2:16:13Right now absent this

2:16:17there is no direction from this board of

2:16:19alderman as far as what could be a

2:16:22reasonable accommodation. But stating

2:16:24this clearly, we are saying yes, this is

2:16:26a reasonable accommodation and this

2:16:28shall be what we do. If the person is

2:16:31determined to be eligible under that

2:16:33code, then they will be able to

2:16:36participate

2:16:37electronically.

2:16:39That's why this is needed because it

2:16:42gives directions to the rest of the

2:16:44department what we want or the I'm

2:16:46sorry, the rest of the city. what we as

2:16:48a board want

2:16:50folks with disabilities to be able to do

2:16:53as far as participating in public

2:16:55comment at the board of alderman

2:16:57meetings. That's why this is needed.

2:17:04>> Alman Dow and then Alman Cle.

2:17:07>> Yeah, you just said during public

2:17:08comment period. I said after public

2:17:10comment period they're taking off

2:17:14because they can watch it on the TV.

2:17:15It's live broadcast. All the meetings

2:17:18are live broadcast.

2:17:19>> So we don't need to keep them on Zoom

2:17:23during the rest of the meeting.

2:17:24>> This contemplates both public comment

2:17:26periods.

2:17:29>> So we're trying to accommodate them

2:17:31because they have something to say for

2:17:33something that's being legislated.

2:17:36I think that if they have something

2:17:38else, at least my constituents, I get

2:17:42emails, notes, and letters all the time,

2:17:44and I usually call them and and talk to

2:17:46them. So,

2:17:49if you want to have it have them allowed

2:17:51in again at the second comment period,

2:17:53yes. But in between, they're definitely

2:17:56muted or off.

2:17:59>> Can I respond?

2:18:00>> Supported

2:18:00>> to that quickly. Alderman Clemens.

2:18:02>> I think that is again I think we're

2:18:04getting into the weeds and I think

2:18:06that's something that you know the

2:18:08legislative office along with the the

2:18:10camera crew along with it is going to

2:18:13determine and I agree with you. They

2:18:15probably will do that. But we don't need

2:18:17to legislate that kind of stuff. We we

2:18:20just we just don't.

2:18:23>> Alman Cle.

2:18:24>> Uh thank you. Um Madame President, I've

2:18:28been really quiet through all of this.

2:18:29Um, but after listening to what um,

2:18:32legal counsel has to say, I am not

2:18:35opposed to this legislation.

2:18:37But I am opposed if it's only going to

2:18:40be for the full board of alderman

2:18:42because based on what legal has said,

2:18:45any meeting, any public meeting where

2:18:48someone requests accommodations

2:18:52must be at least acknowledged

2:18:56and and so on. Am I correct? May I ask

2:18:58legal counsel that question?

2:19:00>> Yes,

2:19:01>> I think that's probably correct.

2:19:03>> So, by us putting in here just that and

2:19:06I'm going to make a side comment. I'm

2:19:08not going to um try to argue the point.

2:19:12Um but I do think that um as we have to

2:19:16legally do that, I think then we're

2:19:17going to need training

2:19:20as a person who clerks on those other

2:19:23meetings how we're going to handle that.

2:19:24I'm just putting that out there. I'm not

2:19:26saying that. That's part of the

2:19:27legislation. I just want that because we

2:19:29already have a law that says all

2:19:33committees, all public comments.

2:19:36I do think this I do agree with my

2:19:38colleague to the left here that

2:19:40basically says is this gives um a voice

2:19:43to the board of alderman saying that we

2:19:45are for this and so on. Um but I think

2:19:49by and I understand um wanting to take

2:19:52baby steps and so on, but I don't think

2:19:54we can limit it

2:19:55>> to just this. I I would love to be able

2:19:57to do that, but based on what legal

2:19:59council says, it's got to be all

2:20:01meetings all the time. And I don't know

2:20:04how this is going to go out to all

2:20:08public meetings. I go to many public

2:20:10meetings that don't have electronic Zoom

2:20:13and so on. So, I just want to put this

2:20:15out there. Thank you.

2:20:17>> Welcome.

2:20:20>> So,

2:20:21Mr. Clerk, [laughter]

2:20:23where are we with this? I I know

2:20:25Alderman Johnson withdrew her amendments

2:20:28>> and then Alderman Clemens um made an

2:20:31amendment amendment

2:20:32>> that was I believe mostly the committee

2:20:34what was discussed in committee but

2:20:35changing it from 3 to 5 days.

2:20:38>> We do roll call too please.

2:20:41>> Okay. So we're voting on the amendment.

2:20:44Alman Clemens amendment.

2:20:47>> Can can uh Alderman Clemens read his

2:20:50amendment? So we need

2:20:51>> Yes.

2:20:52>> We're refreshed.

2:20:54I will I will reread it. So the title of

2:20:56the ordinance

2:20:58is changed to allowing electronic public

2:21:00comment for people with disabilities as

2:21:03defined in the Americans with

2:21:04Disabilities Act.

2:21:06And then section C part 12 reads any

2:21:11person with disability with a disability

2:21:14as defined in the Americans with

2:21:16Disability Act. C42 US code 12102 in

2:21:21parenthesis

2:21:23may electronically participate in public

2:21:25comment at a full board of alderman

2:21:27meeting if at least five business days

2:21:30prior to an upcoming meeting the person

2:21:33notifies the board of alderman's office

2:21:35of their intent to participate in public

2:21:37comment at a specific full board of

2:21:40alderin meeting and provides

2:21:41documentation of their disability. The

2:21:44risk management department shall

2:21:46determine eligibility. The effective

2:21:48date of this ordinance shall be November

2:21:5015, 2026.

2:21:53>> Alderman.

2:21:55>> And just for clarification, you're

2:21:57replacing what's in 12 now with your new

2:21:59wording.

2:22:00>> Correct.

2:22:00>> Okay. So, we need to state that. Also,

2:22:03the analysis talks to walking

2:22:05disability. So, are you going to how's

2:22:08the analysis going to change?

2:22:11>> I I don't I don't know.

2:22:14>> [snorts]

2:22:14>> the analysis. I didn't write the

2:22:16analysis the analysis.

2:22:18>> So the analysis

2:22:19>> it would be rare to change the analysis.

2:22:21We do the analysis as the legislation is

2:22:25originally presented and

2:22:28board makes amendments hither and we

2:22:30don't change the analysis. We could

2:22:34directed to do so but it's not

2:22:36automatic.

2:22:40Okay.

2:22:41>> We ready to vote?

2:22:42>> Mhm.

2:22:43Would the clerk please call the role?

2:22:45>> Alderman Clemens,

2:22:46>> yes.

2:22:48>> Alderman Cle,

2:22:49>> yes.

2:22:50>> Alderman Rean,

2:22:51>> no.

2:22:53>> Alderwoman Smith,

2:22:54>> no.

2:22:56>> Alderman,

2:22:57>> no.

2:22:59>> Alderman O'Brien,

2:23:00>> yes.

2:23:02>> Alderman Greg,

2:23:03>> yes.

2:23:05>> Alderman Dow,

2:23:07>> yes.

2:23:10>> Alderman Sullivan,

2:23:11>> yes.

2:23:13Alderman Sennet,

2:23:14>> yes.

2:23:15>> Alderman Johnson,

2:23:17>> yes.

2:23:18>> Alderman Morgan,

2:23:20>> yes.

2:23:21>> Alderman Wilshshire,

2:23:22>> yes.

2:23:23>> 10 yays, three nays.

2:23:26>> That motion carries.

2:23:29>> Now we need a motion for final passage

2:23:32as amended.

2:23:33>> So moved.

2:23:35>> Okay,

2:23:37further discussion on that. Roll call

2:23:40has been requested. Would the clerk

2:23:43please call the role?

2:23:44>> Alderman Clemens,

2:23:45>> yes.

2:23:46>> Alderman Cle,

2:23:47>> yes.

2:23:49>> Alderman Rean,

2:23:51>> no.

2:23:52>> Alwoman Smith,

2:23:54>> no.

2:23:55>> Alman Tebo,

2:23:56>> no.

2:23:58>> Alderman O'Brien,

2:23:59>> yes.

2:24:01>> Alman Greg,

2:24:02>> yes.

2:24:03>> Alman Dow,

2:24:05>> yes.

2:24:07>> Alderman Sullivan,

2:24:08>> yes.

2:24:10Alderman Senate.

2:24:11>> Yes.

2:24:13>> Alman Johnson,

2:24:14>> yes.

2:24:16>> Alderman Morgan,

2:24:17>> yes.

2:24:20>> Alman Wilshshire,

2:24:22>> yes.

2:24:24>> 10 yays, three nays.

2:24:27>> That motion carries and ordinance 262

2:24:31is declared duly adopted as amended.

2:24:37New business resolutions. First reading

2:24:40of R-26-075

2:24:43authorizing the mayor

2:24:46in city

2:24:48city authorizing the mayor to enter into

2:24:50a second amended federal aid project

2:24:52agreement with the state of New

2:24:54Hampshire in the town of Hudson for the

2:24:57purpose of rehabilitating the Taylor

2:24:59Falls and Veterans Bridges and to accept

2:25:01an additional $231,94129

2:25:07for the objects.

2:25:08>> Additional sponsors, Alderman Clemens,

2:25:11Alderman Cle, Alderman Ravan, Alderman

2:25:14O'Brien, Alderman Greg, Alderman Dow.

2:25:18Given its first reading, I'll assign

2:25:19that to the finance committee. First

2:25:22reading of R-26-076

2:25:25relative to the acceptance of $45,180

2:25:29from the United States Department of

2:25:31Justice into police grant activity 2025

2:25:34justice grant justice assistance grant

2:25:38multi-jurisdictional

2:25:39>> additional sponsors Alman Cleman Smith

2:25:43alderman O'Brien alderman dowed alderman

2:25:45Sullivan alderman Senate Alman Morgan

2:25:50given its first reading I'll assign that

2:25:51to the human affairs committee.

2:25:55>> New business ordinances.

2:25:57>> Uh first reading of O-26-025

2:26:01increasing the elderly and disabled tax

2:26:04exemption maximum allowed individual and

2:26:06combined net income amounts. Additional

2:26:09sponsors, Alderman Ravan, Alderman

2:26:13Smith, Alderman Greg, Alderman Sullivan,

2:26:15Alderman Senate, Alderman Morgan, and

2:26:18myself. Given its first reading, I'll

2:26:21sign that to the personnel

2:26:22administrative affairs committee and the

2:26:24board of assessors.

2:26:26>> First reading of O-26-026

2:26:30regarding approvals for gasoline,

2:26:32electricity, and natural gas contracts

2:26:35in purchasing extensions or renewals.

2:26:38Additional sponsors, Alderman Ravan,

2:26:40Alderman Smith, Alderman O'Brien,

2:26:42Alderman Dow. Given its first reading,

2:26:44I'll assign that to the personnel

2:26:45administrative affairs committee. Period

2:26:48for general public comment. We have two

2:26:50people signed up. Lori Oralano

2:27:03Gloria Ordano Nasha. I'd like a copy of

2:27:06this ordinance, whatever it is, however

2:27:09it lands, and um consider this a right

2:27:11to no request. I want to address

2:27:13attorney Bolton. I want to address the

2:27:14mess of this. Very hard for me to sit

2:27:17back and follow. You're a liar. A

2:27:20complete liar. When you come to this

2:27:23board and you tell them this is what

2:27:25happened, the person wasn't denied,

2:27:27there's ongoing communication, and then

2:27:29you say, "Well, I really don't know."

2:27:31After you're pressed, you don't know.

2:27:34Miss Culloon received a letter on

2:27:36September 12th acknowledging a request

2:27:39that she made twice starting on August

2:27:423rd 5th well beyond the 15 days. The

2:27:46letter on the 12th from risk management

2:27:48said we need 15 days. We'll get back to

2:27:50you. Actually, they need and on

2:27:52September 25th, she got a letter. The

2:27:54letter states that, hey, the city can't,

2:27:57although the city is not providing the

2:27:59specific accommodation requested, which

2:28:02was Zoom access for somebody disabled.

2:28:04What we'll do for you is arrange for an

2:28:06Uber, pay for it with somebody else in

2:28:08the Uber, potentially other people

2:28:10picked up, make the call 72 hours in

2:28:12advance. Miss Johnson's comments were

2:28:14spoton. Write written public comment.

2:28:17Send it in. And if you have trouble with

2:28:19our seating, we might provide a cushion.

2:28:22Then it says, "We understand that these

2:28:24alternatives may not provide the same

2:28:25method of participation you requested.

2:28:28However, based on the city's current

2:28:29procedures and available resources, they

2:28:31offer established means for members of

2:28:33the public to communicate with the board

2:28:35without creating a separate remote

2:28:36public comment system. Thank you for

2:28:38bringing this forward and for your

2:28:40interest in participating in the public

2:28:41process." done. That's a denial. There

2:28:45was no appeal process given to her.

2:28:47Nothing. She wrote to the mayor thinking

2:28:50that was an appeal process. That was 16

2:28:53days ago. She received no response.

2:28:56There has been no back and forth

2:28:57communication that attorney b told you

2:29:00about. It's done. She's now working

2:29:04legally to pursue this matter. And I

2:29:06don't know. I can't even tell what you

2:29:07passed tonight. I don't know if you

2:29:09passed for board of alderman meetings

2:29:10only. This is a woman who is totally

2:29:13wrapped up in the finances. She's first

2:29:16request is going to be for a finance

2:29:18meeting for a budget hearing for budget

2:29:21committee and she'll say, "Well, we

2:29:22didn't pass an ordinance for that." ADA

2:29:25allows her to have that. Your ordinance

2:29:28is crap. It's not written well. And you

2:29:31came tonight after a February 3rd or

2:29:34ordinance and engaged in a discussion

2:29:36that should have taken place 6 months

2:29:37ago and you're a liar.

2:29:40Same thing you do in court, you do in

2:29:42this chamber. I'm disgusted for this

2:29:44woman. And you told people, citizens

2:29:47like me, come in and advocate for them.

2:29:49They can't speak. Have somebody come for

2:29:51you. I've been that person. Have I been

2:29:54treated with respect? I learned things

2:29:56today about I would have ordered the

2:29:57legal office to do a new analysis. This

2:30:00is written so differently. I would have

2:30:03ordered a new analysis. And Miss

2:30:05Johnson, as far as I'm concerned, you

2:30:06got screwed. I hope you put your

2:30:08complaint in. You're spot on on the

2:30:10issues and this city should have known

2:30:12about it.

2:30:15>> Matthew, I'm sorry I can't read the last

2:30:17name.

2:30:18>> I shouldn't have written in cursive.

2:30:20[laughter] My bad. Guy out though.

2:30:22>> We need your name in uh town of

2:30:24residents, please.

2:30:25>> Uh Matthew Guyot, Nasha. So, hello

2:30:27everybody. Um I was very saddened to

2:30:30hear about the education cuts today and

2:30:33I'm glad to hear the commitment to

2:30:35public education from most of the board

2:30:37here. Um, I'm also very happy that the

2:30:40vast majority of the budget goes towards

2:30:42education in this city. You know, we all

2:30:44recognize when there is no meaningful

2:30:46public option, only the kids who have

2:30:49money are allowed to receive the tools

2:30:50that help them succeed into the future.

2:30:53So, hope we can all recognize that

2:30:55public education is a right in that way.

2:30:57Um, but unfortunately, we don't see

2:30:59things like public housing in that same

2:31:01light. You know when the private sector

2:31:04is allowed to be unleashed on any sector

2:31:07of life with no competition from the

2:31:09government, you [snorts] see

2:31:11monopolization of services, a a decrease

2:31:14of quality and an increase of costs

2:31:16because where are people supposed to go?

2:31:18We see the same situation happening with

2:31:20health care right now where people need

2:31:23health care and they're going to pay

2:31:25whatever they need to for it. and with

2:31:27no meaningful government alternative.

2:31:29That just means that they're at the

2:31:30whims of private companies. We're seeing

2:31:32the same thing with housing right now.

2:31:35So, Alderman Johnson said we would have

2:31:37to raise taxes to pay for all of this.

2:31:39And yeah, that is a problem because we

2:31:42put all of our funding into property

2:31:43taxes. Then, yeah, people will be priced

2:31:46out of their houses.

2:31:48And the problem here is not taxes, but

2:31:50it's the fact that we don't have any

2:31:51meaningful progressive income tax in

2:31:54this state that funds things like this.

2:31:56like every other state and country that

2:31:58already has uh funding these services

2:32:01figured out. You know, we've been

2:32:03talking about funding needs as want as

2:32:06um needs versus nice to haves. Well,

2:32:10public human services that is a that is

2:32:12a need. People need places to live. Uh

2:32:14people need somewhere that they can go

2:32:16with dignity just like, you know, we

2:32:19agree here that our kids deserve

2:32:21education because it helps us build a

2:32:22better society going forward.

2:32:26And [clears throat] I'll leave it off

2:32:27with this. Um I'm very glad Alderman

2:32:29Greg is um engaging the nonprofits and

2:32:33trying to figure out where uh things are

2:32:36where things can be different in the GAP

2:32:38study right now. And I'm very excited to

2:32:39see the results of that. Uh but real

2:32:42money needs to be spent on this because

2:32:45housing is a right and the amount of

2:32:48abandoned buildings that I see around

2:32:50NSHA um are ones that can be you know

2:32:53bought up and repurposed. When I was

2:32:56here last time I mentioned that the

2:32:59budget for the police in this city uh

2:33:01the mayor proposed a million dollars

2:33:03more than what the police were actually

2:33:05asking for. And I think now that we're

2:33:07experiencing

2:33:09uh something where we're receiving

2:33:10education cuts, it's a good time to look

2:33:12at where our priorities are at now. And

2:33:14if we really want to be stewards for the

2:33:16people of the city, I think we need to

2:33:18prioritize actually uh real housing

2:33:21solutions along with the same reverence

2:33:23that we give public education. Thank

2:33:25you.

2:33:27>> Thank you.

2:33:31That concludes public comment. Me

2:33:33remarks by members of the board. I'm

2:33:34gonna start over here tonight.

2:33:37Hold me John. Thank you. I just wanted

2:33:41to bring to attention that I have asked

2:33:44since the end of August for information

2:33:47regarding Peak Drive and I had asked the

2:33:50director and she sent it over to Mr.

2:33:54Perry. I had a meeting with the mayor.

2:33:56I've asked for information on 14 Malbury

2:33:58Street from Director Cummings and I keep

2:34:03getting

2:34:08and I just keep getting a message was

2:34:11sent to you regarding record request and

2:34:14they keep pushing me off. It started

2:34:16August and now what now it's October

2:34:19like 29th if I can get this information.

2:34:22I'm sorry. You know, I feel bad for the

2:34:26citizens of this city who request and I

2:34:29feel bad that as an alderman, I made a

2:34:32request and I can't get this information

2:34:34because I'm getting it not only for

2:34:35myself to see the history of teak drive

2:34:38this for my constituents also because I

2:34:40had gotten invoices and the city we paid

2:34:44outside council $8,700 for that. And

2:34:47then also with Malbury Street, we paid

2:34:50over $2,000 for outside counsel. And you

2:34:53know, we as a board have a right to see

2:34:55how the money is being spent for outside

2:34:57counsel. And I asked for this

2:34:59information and I can't get it. And I

2:35:02think it's about time that we start

2:35:04taking a look at why information can't

2:35:06be supplied even to the board under the

2:35:09right to know. I've just asked for a

2:35:11simple sent out an email asked request

2:35:13of the director. She sent it over to Mr.

2:35:16Pin and that's where it's sitting. I

2:35:18keep getting more and more. Another

2:35:20couple of weeks, another couple of

2:35:21weeks, another couple of weeks. Well, as

2:35:24an alderman, I'm trying to get

2:35:25information from my constituents and I

2:35:28see when you do it to residents how

2:35:30frustrating it is. And so, I did have a

2:35:33meeting with the mayor. Nothing's come

2:35:35out of this. And I think it's a sad

2:35:37situation here that when you're sitting

2:35:39alderman and you try to backtrack and

2:35:42see what happened with all this

2:35:44information and why your constituents

2:35:46were so upset when they were going to

2:35:48put road in um you can't get the

2:35:51information. On another note, I just

2:35:54want to say thank you to everybody in

2:35:56the community again, you know, for their

2:35:58support yet with me um with everything

2:36:02and the board here. Um, you know, I

2:36:04think everybody was great to me in 10

2:36:07weeks of my husband passing and and I

2:36:12want to say to Alderman Clemens, one day

2:36:14at a time and that's what I'm doing.

2:36:16Thank you,

2:36:20>> Alderman.

2:36:22>> Yeah, just a couple quick things. One,

2:36:24um,

2:36:26Burke Street came up earlier in the

2:36:28evening. Um, we originally bought Burke

2:36:32Street property down there because we

2:36:34needed to secure some additional land

2:36:37for the wastewater facility because of

2:36:40increasing federal requirements on

2:36:43cleaning the water. At the same time, we

2:36:46looked at evaluating that building that

2:36:48was there to see if it could be used for

2:36:50DPW garage. After an engineering

2:36:52analysis, it couldn't be. So we sold the

2:36:56property and I don't know if we made

2:36:59money or we certainly didn't lose money

2:37:00I don't think and we got the property we

2:37:02needed for the wastewater facility. So

2:37:04that's Burke Street.

2:37:06The other thing is um I recently

2:37:09attended an American Institute of of uh

2:37:13architecture meeting in conquered and uh

2:37:17Haramman and Harvey Construction

2:37:20received an excellence in design from

2:37:24AIA National Association for the design

2:37:27of the McCarthy Middle School. So that

2:37:30was a very prestigious award and uh the

2:37:33city should be proud that that building

2:37:35is recognized nationally.

2:37:38The other thing is uh I know that we're

2:37:41passing a or a lot of bonds but it's two

2:37:46separate issues. Some of the bonds that

2:37:48we talked about tonight are paid for out

2:37:52of enterprise funds, wastewater

2:37:55collection money that and I don't even

2:37:58know if we can use that cash.

2:38:01We had to pass that. But so those are

2:38:04those bonds.

2:38:06But the state has a bonding limit

2:38:10that the city can't exceed.

2:38:14the board of alderman decades ago, I

2:38:16guess now, passed resolution that

2:38:19lowered what we could spend, lower than

2:38:21the state, and we're not even close to

2:38:24it.

2:38:26So,

2:38:28that's set up. Bond council looks at

2:38:30that and and that's why we have such a a

2:38:32great

2:38:34uh bonding rate from the agencies,

2:38:37better than the state of New Hampshire,

2:38:39which probably isn't that hard. uh and

2:38:43we try to maintain that. That's still

2:38:45we're still in a great position on

2:38:47bonding. I know it's a lot of money, but

2:38:49if we have things that need to get done,

2:38:52we need to do them. So, I just want to

2:38:55bring that up.

2:38:57>> Alman Greg,

2:38:58>> thank you, Madam President. I'm going to

2:39:00take it a little bit different

2:39:01direction. And October is domestic

2:39:03violence awareness month and I wanted to

2:39:05take a moment to recognize that here in

2:39:07New Hampshire more than half of our

2:39:09homicides are tied to domestic violence.

2:39:11That's according to the state department

2:39:13of justice and that was actually just

2:39:15reported this week. Nationally about one

2:39:17in four women and one in 10 men will

2:39:20experience violence or stalking by an

2:39:22intimate partner in their lifetime. In

2:39:24this state it's considerably more.

2:39:26Domestic violence isn't always physical.

2:39:29It can look like punching holes in

2:39:30walls. destroying your things, tracking

2:39:33your phone and reading your messages,

2:39:35belittling you, controlling the money,

2:39:38or slowly cutting you off from friends

2:39:40and family. It isn't always bruises.

2:39:43Very often, it's fear in silence. As a

2:39:46survivor, I know how heavy that silence

2:39:49is. That's why it matters so much to me

2:39:51to speak openly so that we so that the

2:39:54shame and stigma land where they belong

2:39:57and not on the people living through it.

2:39:59If you're listening tonight and you

2:40:01recognize your own relationship and what

2:40:04I've described, whether you're the one

2:40:06being mistreated or you're worried about

2:40:08how you are treating someone you love,

2:40:10there is always an opportunity to stop

2:40:13the cycle. Help is available and it's

2:40:16always confidential. The National

2:40:18Domestic Violence Hotline is 1

2:40:208007997233.

2:40:24The New Hampshire statewide hotline is

2:40:271866443574

2:40:31and right here in Nshawa, bridges can be

2:40:33reached 24 hours a day at 6038833044.

2:40:39You are not alone. Thank you,

2:40:43>> Alderman.

2:40:44>> Thank you. I got a couple things I want

2:40:46to say. Um first off, I I just want to

2:40:48say uh congratulations to Alderman

2:40:50Johnson. I know she's been going through

2:40:51a ton of stuff and we beat her up all

2:40:53the time and honestly you've got a

2:40:55couple things past the 30 seconds extra

2:40:58and and today the zoom things that

2:41:00alderman would not be working with you a

2:41:02year ago to get stuff done. So how you

2:41:04get the these guys to work with you

2:41:06amazing amazing stuff. So I know you

2:41:08you've had a rough go but I think you've

2:41:10been obvious honestly one of the more

2:41:12effective alderman in the last couple of

2:41:13months getting stuff done that you would

2:41:15think never would get done. So great job

2:41:17there. Um, I try to give props when I

2:41:20see them. Um, as far as the the voting

2:41:24no on the tabled item earlier, I just

2:41:25wanted to say I voted no on that because

2:41:27I didn't know what we were what we were

2:41:28tableabling. We couldn't talk about it.

2:41:30So, I was like, I'm not I'm not voting

2:41:32yes on that. So, that's why I voted no.

2:41:34I I don't really know what we did there.

2:41:36So, um, as far as, uh, the gap analysis

2:41:40to the point of the person that spoke, I

2:41:43want to thank Alderman Greg for for

2:41:44working on it, but I also want to thank

2:41:45Alderman Lopez because he's on it as

2:41:47well, and I think his experience will

2:41:49bring a lot to that. So, I too am

2:41:50looking forward to seeing what

2:41:52differences it brings from what the city

2:41:54has told us were the gaps. So, I'm

2:41:56looking forward to that quite a bit.

2:41:58Speaking of that, also the resource

2:41:59center. I'm hoping that we get working

2:42:00on that. Um, we should have one by now.

2:42:04We should have had one. We should have

2:42:05voted for it. Um I'm irritated that I

2:42:08didn't vote for it and I'm irritated

2:42:10that we didn't vote for it. Um it was

2:42:12close to passing. We could have passed

2:42:14it. We need it. Um desperately need it

2:42:16in the city. We're heading into the cold

2:42:18months and we're not going to get

2:42:19anything soon. Luckily, we have the we

2:42:21have Harbor doing a temporary one for

2:42:24us. So, thank God for that, but we need

2:42:26to to make sure we start getting a

2:42:28property for this. And finally, um, it

2:42:31was mentioned in the first, uh, public

2:42:33comment that we were attacking private

2:42:35schools. I don't think anyone was

2:42:36attacking private schools, but when

2:42:40people go to private schools, they and

2:42:43they run the state, they may tend to not

2:42:45care as much about public education. And

2:42:48so, that's the inference I was making. I

2:42:50wasn't saying, I don't care if people go

2:42:51to private schools. That's great. Um,

2:42:52more power to them. Some of them are

2:42:54great and great people come out of

2:42:56private schools just like public

2:42:57schools. But it's not our job to run

2:43:00private schools. It's our job to make

2:43:01sure public schools have the money they

2:43:03need. And with the state cutting back

2:43:04one way or the other, we don't have the

2:43:06money to make sure they're getting the

2:43:08education they need. And as it was, we

2:43:09had to take money out of a computer to

2:43:11put into food service, which should be

2:43:13paying for itself, but it's not. So, uh,

2:43:16there's definitely an issue there that

2:43:17we have to solve. And if we're losing

2:43:19money from that, I don't care about the

2:43:21private schools right now. I care about

2:43:22what we are in control of. We are in

2:43:24control of the for the most part public

2:43:27education with the exception of we're

2:43:28not getting the money we need to help us

2:43:30be in control of that along with the

2:43:32BOE. I don't want to take the BOE out of

2:43:34course they do a lot of work on it too

2:43:36but they're going to have some tough

2:43:37tough tough decisions that they're going

2:43:39to have to make in this next uh budget

2:43:40season and it's not going to be pretty.

2:43:42Um and uh we're going to have to find a

2:43:44way to help them out from our side to

2:43:46make sure the kids have what they need.

2:43:48So I'm I'm concerned. I'm very concerned

2:43:50about that. I wasn't dissing private

2:43:52schools,

2:43:54more to them, but more stuff has gone to

2:43:57private schools from the state lately

2:43:58than it should be, vouchers and so

2:44:00forth. So that's what I just wanted to

2:44:02clear that up. I I don't want anybody to

2:44:03think I'm against private schools and

2:44:05definitely not. Thank you,

2:44:08>> Alman. Alderman Smith.

2:44:10>> Yes. Thank you, madam um president. Um

2:44:13just want to make a comment. I mean

2:44:14because earlier I think I'm still

2:44:15reeling from the loss of support from

2:44:18the by the state for our schools and it

2:44:22makes me immediately think about you

2:44:23know we talk about our infrastructure

2:44:26but you know more than that are what's

2:44:28important to me are our children uh

2:44:30we've often been voted one of the great

2:44:32you know great cities to live in um and

2:44:34that's because of you know our citizens

2:44:37our families our schools and I really

2:44:40wanted us to think about you know the

2:44:42impact that this is going to have on us

2:44:44and how we can better support um our

2:44:46board, our school boards. Um there's

2:44:49certain things to me when I start

2:44:50thinking about cuts that I'm just hoping

2:44:52that I just think that we can't do

2:44:55without them. And and I think arts,

2:44:57athletics, special education, the

2:45:00different programs and things that often

2:45:02that get targeted when there are budget

2:45:04cuts, these programs, you know, help our

2:45:07students. They help to build our

2:45:08citizens. They help to build character.

2:45:10They're very important. They're

2:45:12complimentary to the the the three Rs,

2:45:14we used to call them, reading, writing,

2:45:16and arithmetic, although I know that

2:45:18starts with an A. Um, and I just want to

2:45:21make sure that we stay focused on that,

2:45:24that we want to make sure we have

2:45:25balanced citizens. And I think that we

2:45:27can't have that if we're not supporting

2:45:30not just, you know, what happens with

2:45:32the three Rs, but to make sure that our

2:45:34students also continue to have access to

2:45:37special special education, to athletics

2:45:40and the arts because it helps to build

2:45:43better strong citizens. It helps them to

2:45:46develop their character and have great

2:45:48possibilities and uh and personalities

2:45:50and to build their confidence so that

2:45:52they can go on because without that I

2:45:54think our city will be

2:45:57will s will suffer even more losses. Um

2:46:00and you know we are the place that I

2:46:02think a lot of families want to come to

2:46:05and stay here and be here and yes we

2:46:07need more housing. Um, but at the same

2:46:09time, I really want to make sure that we

2:46:11start looking at, and I know we're doing

2:46:13the best that we can, how we're spending

2:46:15our monies, how we're investing in our

2:46:17infrastructure, how we're investing in

2:46:19our community, and how we're investing

2:46:21in our citizens because, as um, I still

2:46:24am hearing in my ear um, O'Brien say, we

2:46:27are the custodians of the city, and I

2:46:30know we all take that responsibility

2:46:31fairly seriously. So, thank you,

2:46:35>> Alman Rivan.

2:46:37>> Thank you. Uh, I agree that healthc care

2:46:40is a right. I heard that tonight in

2:46:43public comment and I wholeheartedly

2:46:45agree.

2:46:47Uh, the federal government, as I

2:46:49understand it, please correct me if I am

2:46:52wrong, but as of October 26th,

2:46:57one of the prescriptions that I need to

2:47:00keep me healthy is going to go up by a

2:47:04factor of six and a half.

2:47:08six and a half times

2:47:11simply because I get it out of the

2:47:13country and the federal administration

2:47:17is saying no, you can't do that anymore.

2:47:20So

2:47:22if if you are in the same boat, please

2:47:26take a look, take a listen. October 26th

2:47:29is a hard deadline as I understand it.

2:47:33Um, second, a comment about public

2:47:36education here locally.

2:47:38Um,

2:47:40the board of education already took it

2:47:42on the chin

2:47:44>> this year. They they did us a a

2:47:48budgetary large favor and it is sad to

2:47:53know that we may be unfortunately in the

2:47:56position that they have to do it again

2:48:00and we need to try not to have that

2:48:04happen.

2:48:06Um, next

2:48:09understand that the that the folks in

2:48:12control

2:48:13at the state level in conquered,

2:48:16we call them Republicans.

2:48:19They are not

2:48:22the people in control

2:48:24in conquered,

2:48:26the majority that call themselves

2:48:29Republicans are not Republicans. They

2:48:32are free stators. They do not want to

2:48:36fund public education

2:48:39because they want individuals to be

2:48:42responsible for paying for educating

2:48:46their children. I don't agree. I was

2:48:49raised in a public education environment

2:48:52and it did me the the good that I

2:48:54needed. It's the reason that I'm sitting

2:48:57here today.

2:49:03Lastly,

2:49:05uh about infrastructure. Um

2:49:10well,

2:49:12here's here's what happened. My wife

2:49:14went up to conquer. She's a state rep.

2:49:18And there was a

2:49:20a bill on the table

2:49:24basically that said, "Hey, let's raise

2:49:28the limit on the amount of money that

2:49:32somebody can make,

2:49:35but their so that their children can

2:49:37still get free lunches. So, it's at X

2:49:41and let's put it higher than that so

2:49:44that more kids can get a free lunch.

2:49:48and the the Republicans put it on the

2:49:51table.

2:49:52And then because it was noon,

2:49:56the leader of the Republican caucus,

2:49:59got up to the front of the well and

2:50:01said, "Remember everybody,

2:50:04uh, Walmart is funding a free lunch for

2:50:07all of us in the cafeteria."

2:50:10So the legislaturators got a free lunch,

2:50:13but the kids didn't. So my sister goes,

2:50:17my sister,

2:50:19oh dear, my sister was a an educator and

2:50:23and and a proud one for 35 years. My

2:50:27wife said, "You know what? I I went down

2:50:30to the to the basement where the

2:50:33cafeteria is and I started talking to

2:50:36people. I I and I said to some of these

2:50:38Republicans that I knew, you know, can

2:50:41we can we just take it off the table?

2:50:44not necessarily to pass it, but but just

2:50:47so we can talk about it, to understand

2:50:50what what the situation really is and

2:50:53why people are taking the stances they

2:50:55are. And a couple of Republicans said,

2:50:58"Yeah, that's reasonable. I I' I'd do

2:51:00that."

2:51:02Then she went to somebody else and she

2:51:05said, "What about you?

2:51:07What What do you think?"

2:51:10And that person said,

2:51:14"They're not my kids."

2:51:18That's what we are fighting against,

2:51:20ladies and gentlemen. That attitude that

2:51:24there is no common good anymore. I'm

2:51:28allowed to be selfish. I don't think

2:51:31that way. I wasn't raised that way. I

2:51:33wasn't educated that way.

2:51:36The citizens of Nshawa

2:51:39are my responsibility.

2:51:43>> Alman Clay.

2:51:44>> Uh thank you um Madame President. I

2:51:47apologize. I have a number of things

2:51:49that I want to speak on. Um but I'd like

2:51:52to first uh start by giving my

2:51:55condolences to the Lis List family. Um

2:51:58the passing of their matriarch.

2:52:01She was 100 years old and she just

2:52:03recently passed away. Um, she was an

2:52:06amazing woman. A woman who never left

2:52:08her house without having perfect makeup,

2:52:11perfect hair, and always went to vote.

2:52:15Amazing to see her come to the polls.

2:52:18And um she for those that um saw the uh

2:52:23World War II um historical society um

2:52:28video that they did, she spoke on her

2:52:30role during that time and working in the

2:52:33factories while the men were over and

2:52:35fighting. There's so many more stories

2:52:37that I'm sure her family and so on could

2:52:39share. So um it's a very sad day that

2:52:42she has passed.

2:52:44I also want to um comment about the

2:52:48education. I know it was said that we

2:52:50have a lower number of of students and

2:52:52so on and therefore our cost should go

2:52:54down. Sadly, yes, we do have a lower

2:52:58number of students, but the average

2:53:00student is costing more because they

2:53:02have increased needs. We have to

2:53:04remember that also all of these p

2:53:07non-public schools that have students

2:53:10that need IEPs must be given by the

2:53:15national public school system. That

2:53:17costs us money. So those students don't

2:53:20get counted, but yet there's a cost to

2:53:22it. So we can't just say the number of

2:53:25students have gone down, therefore we

2:53:27don't need as much money. Um, I think

2:53:29that is is

2:53:32not black and white. There's just so

2:53:34many gray areas there. And special ed

2:53:37can't be cut. That is a requirement by

2:53:41law. We have to have a special ed

2:53:42program. All of these other schools do

2:53:45not. So, we need to keep this in mind

2:53:47while we're talking about that. The

2:53:49state just cut us $4 million. We

2:53:51anticipated $4.5 million. We anticipated

2:53:54two million. That means that we all have

2:53:56to pony up that other $2 million, $2 and

2:53:59a half million dollars. And yes, that is

2:54:02a state problem. That is not a national

2:54:05problem because they've done it

2:54:06throughout the entire um state.

2:54:09I also want to make some announcements

2:54:11of some my favorite holidays coming up,

2:54:14Halloween. And um as a result, I want to

2:54:18let everybody know the incredible things

2:54:21that are happening by the city of NSHA.

2:54:24Um the mayor mentioned the um the one

2:54:28that will be happening here, but there's

2:54:30also the Gley Park. Um I call Gley Park,

2:54:33but it's actually just called the Nasha

2:54:35Halloween Boo Bash and it's held in Gley

2:54:38Park on the 17th of this month. Um which

2:54:42is this coming uh Saturday and it'll be

2:54:44from 3 to 6. and I will be there in my

2:54:48true costume as the wicked witch. Um, at

2:54:51the Gloria Timmans Community Center,

2:54:53once known as the Arlington Community

2:54:55Center, there will be a Halloween party

2:54:57on the 20th from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.

2:55:01The um

2:55:03those are just a couple of the things

2:55:05that are happening. I also wanted to add

2:55:06that the historical society on the 27th

2:55:10at 7 p.m. will be having the Mary Estie

2:55:13her life execution and her historic

2:55:16legacy. We have a relative of hers that

2:55:19lives here in Nshawa and she speaks

2:55:21about this. Um and on 11:17 part of the

2:55:25historical society is between 12:30 p.m.

2:55:28and 3 p.m. they're going to have a story

2:55:30walk. It sounds really interesting and I

2:55:32can't wait to go. Due to this holiday,

2:55:35just as a side note, trash has been

2:55:36delayed one day for all of those that

2:55:38are listening. I talked about that the

2:55:41city does so much. Parks and Rex is um

2:55:45while it does cost, they've also put

2:55:47together New York City um trip, shopping

2:55:50or whatever on the 12th of December and

2:55:52a Celtics game on the 4th of November.

2:55:56There's also the June Karen senior

2:55:58outing which is November 1st from 12:00

2:56:00p.m. to 2 p.m. for all Nashville

2:56:03residents over the age of 60. You do

2:56:05have to reach out to DPW to get those

2:56:06tickets and so on. And after this long

2:56:10giving you of all the things that are

2:56:11happening, I want to thank the mayor and

2:56:13uh director Hannam for meeting with me

2:56:16and a number of my constituents from

2:56:18Jackson Falls to go over a lot of issues

2:56:21that have been going on and so on and

2:56:23get clarification over some back and

2:56:25forth things. So while sometimes yes, we

2:56:27feel like we hit roadblocks whether

2:56:29we're um an alderman or a a resident,

2:56:33sometimes just sitting in the room and

2:56:34having a conversation is the best thing

2:56:37to do. So, I'd like to thank you, Mr.

2:56:39Mayor, for doing that and m and director

2:56:41Hannam. Thank you, Madam President.

2:56:43>> Alman Clemens.

2:56:45>> Thank you, uh, Madame President. Um, so

2:56:49I had, um, actually been meaning to

2:56:52mention this and

2:56:54glad I, uh, getting the [clears throat]

2:56:56the opportunity. So, most people will

2:57:00who who really truly know me um know

2:57:04that uh one of my favorite haunts

2:57:06downtown is O'Brien Sports Bar. And um

2:57:10one of the servers there um his name was

2:57:15Scotty. Scott Bubar passed away on

2:57:18August 27th. And Scotty was a presence

2:57:21downtown. And if you were ever down

2:57:24there, you probably noticed him with his

2:57:27massive dreads. And uh if you ever went

2:57:30to either O'Brien's or uh Oddfellows,

2:57:34you might have had him as either a

2:57:35bartender or a server.

2:57:37Super nice guy. um he would always talk

2:57:41politics with me, particularly local

2:57:44politics, and always share his opinion

2:57:46on what was going on in the city, and

2:57:48never failed to mention the fact that he

2:57:53lived in Tom Lopez's old apartment.

2:57:55[laughter] So, um Scotty was definitely

2:57:58a character and I know that he is

2:58:01looking down on this meeting right now

2:58:04being like, "Why are you wasting your

2:58:06time on me, man?" But he appreci but he

2:58:09appreciates it. I know that. So, uh,

2:58:12somebody like that should always get

2:58:14their due. Um, because even though their

2:58:16mark on the city might be small, uh, he

2:58:19actually had a a pretty big impact on

2:58:21me. And so, thank you.

2:58:26>> Okay. Committee announcements.

2:58:30>> I'm sorry.

2:58:32I I just wanted to mention that O R

2:58:3526062

2:58:36went back to the committee because the

2:58:38DPW missed sending us a recommendation

2:58:41on that particular item. So that's why

2:58:45it went back to budget

2:58:47>> committee announcements.

2:58:49Alman O'Brien

2:58:52>> uh tomorrow night 7 o'clock here in the

2:58:54chamber infrastructure committee.

2:58:57>> Alman Tibo.

2:58:58>> Thank you. Uh, next Tuesday, planning

2:59:00and economic development. Uh, I think we

2:59:02have a presentation uh, from e economic

2:59:04development.

2:59:08>> Alderman Clemen.

2:59:09>> Motion to adjurnn.

2:59:12>> Motion to adjurnn. All those in favor

2:59:14say I.

2:59:15>> I.

2:59:15>> Opposed. We are journed at 10:29 p.m.

2:59:19Thank you everyone. Thank you.

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