2026-09-09 - Personnel and Administrative Affairs Committee

00:35Alderman Derek Tibo is here. Alderman

00:37Paula Johnson

00:38>> present.

00:39>> Alderman at large Ben Clemens, vice

00:41chair here. Alderwoman at large,

00:43Shashana Kelly, chairwoman.

00:45>> I am here. I'm attending remotely due to

00:47childcare issues and I'm alone in this

00:49room and I can hear everyone.

00:52>> Uh we also have so we have four in

00:54attendance. That is quorum also in

00:56attendance. We have alderman uh Patricia

00:58Cle. We have Dave Buchet, superintendent

01:01of wastewater. We have um uh corporation

01:05council Steve Bolton. We have Mayor Jim

01:07Donas. We have director uh Lisa Photo.

01:11Um did I get everyone that I know?

01:14>> Yep.

01:15>> Right.

01:15>> Okay. Uh I am chairing the even though

01:18our chairman is here with us on TV

01:22tonight.

01:22>> Recording in progress. I am uh chairing

01:27because our our ordinances specify that

01:30you cannot share a meeting over Zoom. So

01:33just so everybody knows that um I will

01:37call for public comment. Is there anyone

01:38that wishes to come and speak

01:41you have uh [clears throat] three and a

01:42half minutes and it's related to things

01:45on the agenda. Lori Ordano NSHA I want

01:49to talk about the increase in sewer um

01:51fees and charges and you know there's a

01:53citizen Laura Calhoun who's done a lot

01:55of research on this and um the

01:58observation based on data she got

02:00through right to know request is that

02:01more and more people are not paying

02:03their sewer bills. there's been uh um

02:07significant and sharp increase of people

02:09not making payment to the tune of well

02:12over 10,000 unpaid bills and the budget

02:16and the allocation that has to be placed

02:19in I think this year to cover these

02:21unpaid bills amounts to somewhere on the

02:24order of $3 million. My question is I

02:28don't know why this is happening. I

02:29don't know why people neglect to pay

02:31those bills. I don't know if it's a

02:32hardship issue, um, stress on budgets,

02:35finances, that doesn't really matter.

02:38It's just that there's this growing

02:40trend and it's here and now. And I'm

02:42wondering if sewer bills can be folded

02:46in and mailed as part of your tax bill

02:49and put in as a single bill that's paid.

02:52It used to be, I talked to people who

02:54told me they didn't pay their sewer

02:56bills. they skipped them, but that their

02:58mortgage company eventually picked them

03:00up and they were paid when the mortgage

03:03company um got hold of the bills that

03:06somehow came through the city. My

03:08understanding is that's not happening

03:10anymore. And I think we used to go

03:13after, you know, people who didn't pay.

03:16Um maybe you could put leans on. I don't

03:18have all the language. Laura's really

03:20the best person on this, but she's not

03:22here. Um, and you know, we're not doing

03:26that either. So, you know, I don't like

03:28what I see going on with the increase in

03:31rates because the people who don't pay

03:34obviously have to, you know, the people

03:35who do pay have to pick that up and have

03:37to carry that on their shoulders. And I

03:39think it's going to be a continuing

03:41trend for people not to pay, especially

03:43if there's no penalty. You're not

03:45caught. You're not there's no lean.

03:47There's no um there's no penalty to not

03:50pay. So, I'd like to know if we could

03:52just put it into the property tax bill,

03:54make it all one twice a year instead of

03:57quarterly and do it that way. And the

04:00other thing is, uh, I don't know if I'm

04:02allowed to talk about, um, 262, if

04:04that's going to come off the table

04:06tonight.

04:06>> You You may talk about it.

04:08>> Thank you. Um, you know, the person who

04:10would be here in participating via Zoom

04:12would be Laura and she hasn't come out

04:15because she cannot drive at night and

04:18she has real mobility issues and she

04:21does a lot of work in research and maybe

04:23you folks don't agree with her and don't

04:25like her research, but I think she

04:27should have an opportunity to come and

04:29dial in on Zoom and tell you about those

04:31issues. And you know, the state of

04:33Massachusetts has extended their remote

04:35access from COVID. They extended it to

04:382025. Last year they extended it through

04:402027. And they're allowing their

04:43meetings to continue with remote access

04:45through 2027 for people for people with

04:49disabilities.

04:50>> Um, you know, I really appreciate that

04:53Ben tried to get this off the table. I'm

04:56really shocked that this was put on the

04:58table back in the winter and we're here

05:00discussing it. I support it. There's

05:02another gentleman who planned to come

05:03out to a meeting who texted me when I

05:06got here and said, "I'm too dizzy

05:07tonight. I can't come." And he's another

05:10perfect example of somebody who could

05:12zoom in if it were available. I support

05:14it for these folks. It doesn't benefit

05:16me. I think it's important and I think

05:17we should do it. Thank you.

05:20>> Thank you. [clears throat] Is there

05:21anyone else this evening?

05:24>> Uh seeing no one, we will go to

05:25communications.

05:28We have a communication from director of

05:30public works Lisa Photo regarding

05:31referral from board of alderman

05:33ordinance 0-26-023.

05:36>> Uh there being no objection I will

05:38accept the communication and place it on

05:40file.

05:41Um we have interviews

05:44>> uh for the historic district commission

05:46we have Gordon new appointment 69

05:48conquered street national 3064 term to

05:51expire July 16th 2029.

05:55All right. Well, welcome and I will turn

05:57it over to uh to the mayor.

06:00>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. [clears throat]

06:02So, um I am nominating or I have

06:05nominated Marne Gordon to the historic

06:07district commission. Um, Miss Gordon has

06:12had a career in the business world,

06:15mostly in sales, but uh, in addition to

06:18that lives within the district and, uh,

06:21is very familiar with its operation

06:24because she has, um, applied for at

06:29various times for renovations in her

06:32home, which have been approved by the

06:33commission. But, uh, so she understands

06:35the way the commission works very well.

06:38uh having been through through it

06:39several times. Uh so I think she will be

06:43you know a great addition to the

06:46commission and um

06:50the commission has existed since for a

06:54long time. uh and um uh I think they do

06:58a good job of uh making sure that the

07:03improvements which occur within the

07:05district comply with kind of the

07:06historic character of of the

07:08neighborhoods which are incorporated in

07:11the district. Uh but I will now turn to

07:15Miss Gordon and ask that she tell you a

07:18little bit about herself and of uh her

07:22interest in being on the historic

07:24district commission.

07:25>> Okay.

07:26>> Hello. Good evening. Thank you so much

07:27for this opportunity to chat with all of

07:29you tonight. I'm very excited to be part

07:31of this historic district commission. My

07:33husband and I have lived at 69 Conquered

07:36Street for 20 years. We actually just

07:38celebrated 20 years this past August

07:416th, I think. Anyway, 20 years of um

07:45living in a beautiful historic 1889

07:48built Victorian home that we lovingly

07:51restored.

07:52Uh and [clears throat] with that, we

07:55spent a lot of time working with the

07:57historic district. Um,

08:00and

08:01you know, after multiple applications

08:04and processes, finished off our home and

08:07we've loved living there, you know,

08:09every every minute of it. Um, we also

08:12had subsequent applications through the

08:13historic district for um, a hot tub that

08:16we installed few years ago. It was like

08:19a COVID hot tub. And um most recently,

08:22I'd say it was about two or three years

08:23ago, we submitted an application for a

08:26shed to be put on the property as well.

08:28And so those were our three experiences

08:31working with Carter and the historic

08:33team. And um you know, we've just like I

08:36said, three different rounds, multiple

08:39conversations, multiple meetings. So,

08:41I'm familiar with the processes of the

08:46this historic uh district commission

08:49board and what the objectives are. Um,

08:52also because I do live in the north end

08:54and I live across the street from

08:57multiple properties that have undergone

08:59renovation or are in process of

09:01undergoing renovation. So, I've been

09:03more involved as a regular citizen going

09:05in and sitting on some of these meetings

09:07and knowing the rigors that my husband

09:09and I went through to get certain things

09:11processed, we thought it would be

09:13important to sit in on some of these

09:14other ones since the these are our

09:16direct neighbors to make sure that the

09:18properties are restored to um the same

09:22degree

09:24uh of of oversight that that we were

09:28required to to follow. So, um, with

09:31that, we met some of the builders and

09:33everything. I just really enjoy the

09:34process. And I think, um, having

09:36renovated

09:38this home, but also have I renovated two

09:41other homes prior to this, um, I do have

09:44some experience in renovation, and I

09:47think I can offer some some good insight

09:49and, um, I think I I could I could bring

09:52value to the board.

09:54>> Great. Thank you so much for uh for

09:56that. I'm going to open it up to the

09:58committee for questions. Um, Alderman,

10:02>> thank you. Um, thank you for stepping

10:04forward. Um, and and uh wanting to be

10:07part of one of our volunteer committees.

10:08It's uh uh it's good. Historic district

10:11commission has been one that we've been

10:13lacking in in getting membership. So,

10:15it's good to start to see people come

10:16forward and and be part of that. Um,

10:19excuse me. Um, I've been on the historic

10:22district commission. on the alternate

10:24now where Alderman Cle is has picked up

10:26this year, but she's done she's been on

10:27it for a lot longer than I have in

10:29multiple roles. Um, but it's important

10:31to me that we get right the right

10:32people. I don't even live in that

10:33district. I live on the other side of

10:35town, but it's important to me that we

10:37keep the as you know, the historic areas

10:39of our city historic and uh, you know,

10:43and I'm, you know, member of the

10:44historical society and I want to make

10:46sure that. So, it's good to see

10:47somebody. Obviously, we want people that

10:48live in that area and care about the the

10:50the

10:52I guess the uh spirit of that area and

10:54making sure that, you know, uh

10:56everything stays as close to possible in

10:58a modern world as we could possibly have

10:59it, right? I know they probably didn't

11:01have a nice hot tub in 1880, but um so I

11:04appreciate that the that the committee

11:06looks at that and makes sure it fits

11:07into the framework of the the city. So,

11:10thank you for stepping forward and uh I

11:12really appreciate your service to to the

11:14the board.

11:15>> Great. Any other committee members?

11:19Seeing none, I will go to uh Alderman

11:21Cle.

11:22>> Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um as as um

11:26my colleague just said, I'm on the

11:28historic district commission as the um

11:30leazison to the board of alderman. Um

11:32and our last meeting, we had some very

11:35vigorous discussion about some of the

11:37changes that need to be made. um for for

11:40instance because you said about the what

11:42you had to go through and lots of

11:44discussion and coming back and and so on

11:46and that's very arduous and I I I I'm

11:50sure that you were very frustrated by

11:51the time you were done. Maybe you

11:53learned a lot and it was a lot of give

11:54and take. Um but is there anything you

11:57can think of um that might have been

11:59able to help that process? So I'll give

12:01you kind of a heads up. One of the

12:03things we talked about was to um kind of

12:06as people put in an application for

12:07change that the um the permit

12:10department, the planning department

12:11actually kind of gives you a a to-do

12:13list, a list of things that you should

12:15be uh prepared to discuss and kind of

12:17more of the um for instance, um the

12:21reason this came up was because we've

12:22had um a property that's come to us many

12:25times and they just had to come to us

12:26because they want to put a um um a kind

12:30of air conditioning unit, a heating unit

12:31on top of their building um which is

12:34permitted as long as the HDC says it's

12:37okay but in order to do that they had to

12:39put up this fencing and they said I wish

12:40we would have known about this

12:42>> before because I've already got the roof

12:44in and now I've got to make all these

12:45changes and so on. So that kind of

12:47started our conversation. Is there

12:49anything that you can think of through

12:50your processes that you've gone through

12:52that you think might have helped and so

12:54on and and do you think that by what

12:57you've gone through is going to help

12:58them? I think uh what would have been

13:02helpful

13:03>> is as you just said have kind of a list

13:06of things to of list of considerations

13:08and things that you have to come

13:09prepared with for that first meeting. Um

13:13and that's something that can be

13:15discussed by the historic district

13:17commission. We can brainstorm that and

13:20come up with that checklist of of

13:22things. Um I think that would be that

13:24would have been super helpful for us.

13:26Um, I think it would have been super

13:28helpful for the folks who who had come

13:31to the most recent meetings that I was

13:33part of because they both came with

13:35different sets of information. Um,

13:39and they needed more. They weren't they

13:42weren't prepared enough. Um, and I had

13:44been to two meetings.

13:46One gentleman, I think it was Crimson

13:49Properties came. We gave him a kind of a

13:51laundry list of things to come back

13:53with. He came back with it for his

13:55second meeting at the same time someone

13:56else came for their first meeting. And

13:59so while we were moving forward with

14:01Crimson, we had to like help this other

14:04guy figure out what he needs to bring

14:06for the next time. Had he had that list

14:08in advance, um I think that would have

14:11made things more efficient and uh like

14:14time efficient for him and for the

14:16committee.

14:17>> May I?

14:17>> Yes. Yes, please.

14:18>> Is there anything specific you can think

14:20of in your case that might have helped

14:21you? This is 20 years ago. Okay. It's

14:24hard to say um

14:27>> 20 years ago. But I will I will say this

14:30though, one of the things that did come

14:32up I think having been part of those two

14:35meetings just as a you know a

14:36neighborhood uh resident.

14:39Um,

14:42it would be helpful not to just have a

14:44checklist of things that you need to

14:45bring, but just have an outline of

14:49standards that we're trying to hold to.

14:53Um, some of those standards might be

14:56um you have to come prepared with

14:59drawings and in sketches or or some some

15:02kind of schematic of things prior to

15:04some people bring them, some some people

15:06don't. um pre-approved

15:10materials.

15:12So that that takes less time, you know,

15:15in conversation about um will we allow

15:19vinyl windows, right? Because some of

15:21these properties, and I'm friends with a

15:23lot of folks in the neighborhood, some

15:24of the properties have been renovated

15:26with vinyl windows, but then this

15:28gentleman came to say, "Hey, I'm would

15:30like to do vinyl windows." And the

15:32answer was like, "Yeah, I don't think

15:33so."

15:34>> [laughter]

15:34>> you know, so we can't we have to we have

15:36to hold to like our standards of what is

15:39acceptable because you don't want to put

15:41some people through the ringer when

15:42you've already made an approval. So, I

15:44don't know if there's like an SOP or

15:46standard operating procedures for for

15:49folks that come through or for the

15:51committee to say like, okay, this is

15:52we're already going to do this. You have

15:54to bring a sample and then we'll make a

15:56decision on that sample. Same thing with

15:59like um Hardy board and I know that came

16:02up. If you think about these huge

16:04beautiful homes that require so much

16:08maintenance and it's so expensive moving

16:11into the next 20, 30, 40 years

16:16like Hardy board, this is something for

16:17the commission to obviously talk about,

16:20but it looks it looks lovely and it

16:22lasts forever. So in terms of

16:26maintaining these homes, it would be

16:27more cost-effective if somebody wants to

16:29use Hardy board, but because it's not a

16:31natural wood product, the initial

16:34response is it's not being restored to

16:36its original

16:38uh um you know, original materials with

16:42the original materials. At the same

16:44time, I think as as um folks who want to

16:49protect the integrity and the beauty of

16:50these homes, making them

16:54uh affordable to maintain. I think

16:58is actually something that needs to be

17:00considered for the longevity of the

17:02home, right? Because wood will rot if

17:05it's not taken care of. We see what's

17:06happened to some of these beautiful

17:08homes. They are legitimately melting,

17:11right? And so we have to think of these

17:13costs going forward and if if um if

17:17that's something that can the commission

17:19would provide as long as the exterior

17:22looks and is maintained as it's in the

17:25look of it as wood and I don't know if

17:28you guys know what Hardy board is. Um

17:31then that's something to be considered.

17:32That's just one example. So I'll stop

17:34talking now because I feel like I'm

17:36chatting too much. [laughter]

17:38But those are some of the things that I

17:39think would be helpful. some standard

17:41operating procedures, some materials

17:43that we we agree are are okay to use for

17:47future renovations, and I'm sure other

17:50things will pop up um as I'm as we're in

17:55conversations.

17:56>> Mr. Chair, can I just make a comment? I

17:59100% agree with everything you just

18:00said, and I thank you for that. At our

18:02last meeting, that was kind of some of

18:04the things that we were talking about.

18:05The average person didn't know that they

18:07had to have this fence that would block

18:08whatever they put up on top of the roof

18:10because no matter what view, you have to

18:12be able to not see it,

18:13>> right?

18:14>> And it has to be within the So, I love

18:16that idea. I've been on the commission

18:18where yes, they've approved final

18:19windows and then the next person comes

18:21along, it's more in the center of

18:24conquered street and they say no versus

18:26when it's on Manchester Street, they may

18:27say yes.

18:28>> So, I 100% agree with you. I thank you

18:30for your answer and I look forward to

18:32them saying yes to you. So, thank you.

18:35>> Great.

18:35>> Uh, anyone else?

18:39Well, seeing none, I I do want to just

18:41say the conversation here tonight has

18:44impressed me enough.

18:47Um, beyond that, um, you know, I think

18:50you're a good steward to the

18:51neighborhood. Um, and certainly the

18:55historic district commission, um, will

18:58be well served with you. So, I I intend

19:00to to support your nomination.

19:03Thank you.

19:05>> All right. I think that was our only

19:08interview tonight. Correct.

19:10>> Thank you.

19:11>> All right. Thank you. Uh application to

19:14license Hawkers peddlers itinerant

19:16vendor's license.

19:17>> There is none.

19:18>> Appointments by the mayor. I'd

19:20>> like to make a motion to recommend the

19:23following. New appointment to the

19:24historic district commission Mary Gordon

19:25with a term to expire July 16th, 2029.

19:29and to recommend reappoint of Joseph

19:31Dukette to the airport authority with a

19:32term to expire August 31st third I'm

19:35assuming that's 2031 and not 3031.

19:38[snorts]

19:38Um cuz that would be I don't think he's

19:40going to be alive then. [laughter] Um so

19:43yeah 2031 I'll amend that.

19:45>> Okay. Any discussion on the motion?

19:48[clears throat]

19:48>> We have to do roll call.

19:49>> We do have to do a roll call.

19:52Uh would the clerk call a roll?

19:53>> Yep. Uh Alderman Tibo says yes.

19:57Um, Alderman Paula Johnson.

20:00>> Yes.

20:01>> Uh, Alderman at large Ben Clemens.

20:03>> Yes.

20:04>> And Alderwoman at large Kelly.

20:08>> Yes.

20:08>> So, there's four yeses and those are

20:11approved.

20:12>> Okay. Uh, unfinished business.

20:14>> There is none.

20:15>> New business resolutions?

20:17>> None.

20:17>> New business ordinances.

20:19>> We have O-26-23

20:21increasing sore use fee rates and

20:24charges. I'd like to make a motion to

20:25recommend final passage. Um, and we do

20:28have two presentations that they will go

20:31through. [snorts] Uh, which one are you

20:32going through first?

20:34>> Just say a few opening words if that's

20:35okay and then I'll hand it over to you

20:37last.

20:38>> Sure. Okay. Please come forward. If you

20:40want to come forward to

20:42>> Sure. Absolutely.

20:43>> If you think you're going to be that

20:44long.

20:45>> It might be easier for us to

20:47>> Yeah, for sure.

20:48>> 100%.

20:49>> Okay.

20:51We also have Frank here who's our Yeah,

20:54bring them up.

20:55>> Come on up, everybody.

20:58>> Or the marrier.

21:10>> We'll try not to be too longwinded.

21:13>> So,

21:15>> director photo.

21:16>> Thank you. Uh, good evening. Lisa Photo,

21:18director of public works. With me this

21:20evening is Carolyn O' Conor, assistant

21:23director of public works who's on uh

21:25Zoom, Dave Bush, superintendent of

21:27wastewater, Noel Osborne, assistant

21:29superintendent of wastewater, and our uh

21:32consultants, Frank Aayod is here, and

21:34Olivia August, also from Hazen and

21:36Sawyer, is is on Zoom, and I think she

21:39will be presenting in in a little bit.

21:41As you know, the wastewater treatment

21:43plant is the most critical asset the

21:45city owns. If it doesn't function

21:47properly, there's not a switch that we

21:48can send our wastewater any anywhere

21:51else. The wastewater facility is not

21:53funded by property taxes. I want to make

21:56uh that clear for all our residents

21:58watching. It's funded by a separate

22:00wastewater user fee that is collected

22:02and placed in the wastewater fund. We've

22:04hired Hazen and Sawyer to do extensive

22:07analysis of exactly where our wastewater

22:09rates should be using a sophisticated

22:11model. The model helps ensure that we're

22:14maintaining a healthy wastewater fund

22:16balance while not overcharging our rate

22:18payers. You'll see the year-over-year

22:21increases have been trending down due to

22:23a thoughtful approach to the phasing in

22:26of projects. You'll hear more about our

22:28wastewater treatment facility, but it is

22:30heavily regulated by the state of New

22:33Hampshire and EPA and very expensive to

22:35operate. The user rates are derived from

22:38capital projects and permitting

22:40requirements that are necessary to

22:42maintain compliance and keep the plant

22:45operating for NSHA residents. And I just

22:47one other clarifying point that I wanted

22:49to make is that if the rates are

22:52approved, they would not take effect

22:53until January 1 of 2027. So,

22:57>> okay.

22:57>> And with that, I'll hand it over to uh

22:59Superintendent Bush.

23:00>> Right. Thank you,

23:02Superintendent David Bush. I'm going to

23:04start with the presentation that has the

23:06wastewater plant picture on it.

23:08>> Okay.

23:18>> Right. Thank you.

23:19>> Uh so I'm going to give a brief overview

23:21of the wastewater facility. Uh and then

23:23I'm going to go over some projects uh

23:25just to kind of get an idea of what what

23:27types of projects we do that are

23:28factored into a rate study.

23:34Uh so the wastewater treatment facility

23:36itself sits on 28 acres off of Sawmill

23:39Road. Uh there's a bird's eye view of

23:41the facility. Uh the whole goal of the

23:45wastewater facility is to collect waste

23:46water uh throughout the city, treat it,

23:49and we we put clean water into the

23:51Marramac River. We service approximately

23:5489,000 residents in the city of Nasha.

23:56We also treat the waste water from

23:59Hudson uh small part of Marramac which

24:02is by uh Pentuk Square and also

24:04Tingsboro Mass over by the mall.

24:09The original facilities design flow is

24:1116 million gallons per day. Uh currently

24:14where we average uh 12 million gallons

24:16per day. Uh with the aid of the wet

24:20weather treatment facility which is also

24:21located in the same footprint, we can

24:23treat up to 110 million gallons per day.

24:27We also treat an average of 8,000 uh

24:29800,000 gallons of septage. This is from

24:32homes that are on septic systems just

24:34outside of the gravity system.

24:39Uh in the collection system, these are

24:41some of the things we maintain. Over 400

24:43miles of collection system, underground

24:46piping, 12 pump stations in the system,

24:49nine combined sewer overflow structures

24:52as well as eight siphon chambers. Uh,

24:54siphon chambers are located in areas

24:56where the sewer system dips under water

24:59bodies.

25:00>> Can I ask?

25:01>> Yeah.

25:02>> Um, sorry. Thank you. Um, Mr. Chair, um,

25:05I just wanted to know, I didn't see it

25:06in here, maybe it is somewhere. Um, how

25:08old is the plant?

25:10>> Uh, that dates back to Well, parts of it

25:12date back to 1959.

25:13>> Okay. Thank you.

25:15>> And it's kind of had improvements over

25:16the years and

25:17>> on. Okay. Thank you.

25:19>> You're welcome.

25:21Uh so we'll go over some of the

25:23wastewater projects we have and and most

25:25of the projects are geared towards uh

25:27safety uh for our employees uh

25:30maintaining our assets uh and also

25:34meeting regulatory compliances.

25:37Uh picture on the left is our pump

25:39station phase 2 upgrade. We have updated

25:42all of our pump stations throughout the

25:44city in two different phases. We just

25:46completed our phase 2 upgrade. All the

25:48pump stations received new controls, new

25:51pumps. Uh some of them got new buildings

25:54like the one here, Blackstone. Uh and

25:57some received new emergency generators.

26:01Our dry well valve and pipe replacement

26:03project that took place at the

26:05wastewater facility. Uh pictured on the

26:08right is uh some of the piping that got

26:10replaced. It's large pipe 36 in we all

26:12the way up to 42 in piping got replaced.

26:16uh and and some of the large valves that

26:18were also in there. Um some of the the

26:21larger cost to this project comes with

26:23the fact that we had to bypass up to 50

26:26million gallons of water per day around

26:29this building so that we could replace

26:31the pipes that it normally goes through.

26:36Other projects at the facility, uh we

26:38did a fire alarm upgrade. Uh we have

26:40approximately 16 buildings in the

26:41facility itself. Uh the it was an aged

26:45fire alarm system. Uh now it's up to

26:47code, all addressable

26:50gas monitoring system upgrade. We have

26:53uh several areas within the wastewater

26:55plant that has potential of uh toxic

26:58gases uh that employees can walk into.

27:01So it's important to have some of these

27:02uh notification systems to make sure

27:04it's safe to enter.

27:07Uh loading dock and tank coding. This is

27:09kind of one of those projects where

27:11we're we're [snorts] maintaining the

27:12existing assets. Uh we have some small

27:14tanks on picture on the right hand side

27:16that uh we had to resurface the tanks, a

27:20retaining wall in the back and in the

27:22background is our loading dock which is

27:23a steel structure that uh was starting

27:25to rust and uh needed some concrete

27:28repair as well.

27:32Some current projects going on, we have

27:34a skater system upgrade going on. Uh the

27:37skater system is a program system that

27:39we use internally. The operators use it

27:41uh to monitor equipment to control

27:43equipment. We also receive real-time

27:46data with the equipment that uh gets put

27:48into a software program where we can

27:50report all our our numbers to regulatory

27:53agencies on a monthly basis. Uh we had

27:56updates to the software, the hardware,

27:59uh also some security updates so that we

28:01can protect ourselves against cyber

28:02attacks.

28:05The phase one upgrade is one we're

28:07working on now. Uh the construction

28:09hasn't begun yet. Uh but that is a uh

28:13construction all throughout the facility

28:15based off of our 20-year wastewater

28:17plan. Things that were cited with our

28:19existing infrastructure that needed to

28:21be repaired. Uh replacing major gates in

28:24the facility. Some uh flow meters that

28:27are on the ground. Uh some building

28:29upgrades, HVAC system all throughout the

28:32facility. the the major gates. Another

28:35cost increase of this is we also have to

28:36bypass that flow again around these

28:38processes in order to to replace some of

28:41the equipment that that needs to be

28:43replaced.

28:47Uh a future capital project we were

28:49looking at this was the class A

28:50bioolids. Some of you probably heard me

28:52mention this at some other meetings. um

28:55because of regulatory uh requirements,

28:58we have to get rid of our bioolids, but

29:00we produce a class B bioolids. Uh it's

29:03been harder to well, some regulations

29:07that have come down have made it hard to

29:09land apply. Uh we saw our cost double

29:13for for managing the bioolids. Some

29:15states have started to not accept land

29:19application of bioolids. Um, this

29:22particular project we put on pause right

29:24now because we're looking at the

29:25feasibility of potentially using our

29:27bioolids at the Four Hills landfill. Uh,

29:31what we have to do is look at what that

29:33might look like. Uh, how we could amend

29:35the product in order to make it meet all

29:37the requirements of the landfill. Uh, it

29:40would benefit the landfill and using it

29:41as a a cover benefit us cost savings for

29:46getting rid of the product. Uh, so

29:48that's something we're we're currently

29:49looking at.

29:50>> [snorts]

29:52>> And this is the part I'll turn over to

29:55assistant superintendent Noel Osborne.

29:58>> Thank you. Yes.

29:59>> Um so we'll be talking I'll be talking

30:01about the ongoing cap capital projects

30:04that we have here. Uh these are accounts

30:06that every year we put money into for uh

30:09ongoing expenses. So the consent decree

30:12operational expenditures dates back to

30:14the 90s when we had a consent decree

30:16saying from the EPA saying that we had

30:18to get rid of the CSOS. Um we had

30:22further discussion which resulted in the

30:23wet weather flow treatment facility

30:25being built uh as well as some

30:27improvements within the collection

30:28system. Um but there is uh additional

30:31work that needs to still be done.

30:34There's a post construction monitoring

30:36plan, a long-term control plan, um, and

30:39potential further CSO controls. Uh, some

30:41of this is in limbo, waiting on the EPA

30:44to actually get back to us. Um, but we

30:47we keep planning for it. It's it'll

30:49happen eventually, I'm sure. Uh, the

30:51inflow and infiltration, this is just

30:53looking at uh the collection system and

30:56finding where the clean water is coming

30:59into the collection system because we

31:00don't want to treat clean water. We want

31:02to treat the dirty water, right? So, um,

31:05locating that and eliminating that. Uh,

31:07that's roof drains and and breaks in,

31:10uh, the pipe that allows the groundwater

31:12and and things of that nature. Sump

31:13pumps being piped in, uh, that sort of

31:15thing. Um, annual storm water management

31:18abatement. This is looking at storm

31:20water control outside of the facility,

31:22but in the city. So, swailes and um, you

31:26know, green infrastructure like rain

31:27gardens and porous concrete, porous

31:29pavement, things of that nature. the

31:31Marramac River levy rehabilitation. Um

31:35the back in the 50s the Army Corps built

31:37that nice uh levy for us to protect

31:40Nasha from flooding. Uh and we do have

31:43inspections annually. We actually just

31:45had one this morning. And this fund uh

31:48allows us, this account allows us to u

31:50pay for the maintenance, the mowing of

31:52it and things like that. And then

31:54whatever deficiencies they might find

31:56which you know if there's animals

31:58burrowing in it or trees that are

32:00growing too close to the levey it can

32:02impact the structural integrity. Um and

32:06then cso flooding any problem areas in

32:08the city we do look at further

32:10separation of the the combined

32:12collection system where it makes sense

32:15and where it's appropriate to kind of uh

32:18take care of those those problem areas.

32:20So this covers the work and the

32:22restoration there.

32:26Uh these are the permits that the

32:28wastewater facility holds on behalf of

32:30the city of NSHA. So you can see that

32:32they're pretty extensive and I'm not

32:34going to go into each one of them

32:35because they are pretty uh uh involved.

32:38But the the big one is the NPDES, the

32:40National Pollutant Discharge Elimination

32:42System, which is the EPA permit. It

32:44includes state standards because the

32:46state of New Hampshire is actually more

32:48strict in a lot of areas than the EPA.

32:51Um and this covers us. It's

32:53all-encompassing. It it covers uh all of

32:55the waste water that we treat, all that

32:57we discharge, the bioolids um and and

33:00all of that. It uh takes care of the

33:03collection system, the uh it requires us

33:06to have emergency generators on site

33:08which have supplemental uh permits here

33:11like the air permit, the AS above ground

33:14storage tank, underground storage tank

33:16uh permits. All of that is just driven

33:19by that NPDES permit. And

33:23subsequently, we have these governing

33:25documents that are required by these

33:27permits. And these are documents that

33:30the city uh works with consultants to

33:34create like the collection system on&m

33:36and the long-term control plan. And

33:38that's giving us achievable goals that

33:40we can set to say, okay, we're going to

33:44uh CCTV X number of linear feet of the

33:47collection system or we're going to

33:48inspect this many catch basins in the

33:50collection system, things of that

33:53nature. Post construction monitoring

33:55plan, again, that's one that's in limbo,

33:57but is based off of the consent decree.

33:59Um the MS4 is the uh um the permit for

34:05the storm water citywide outside of the

34:08footprint of the actual wastewater

34:10plant. Um so there's a storm water

34:12management plan that is driven by that.

34:15And you'll find that you can connect a

34:18lot of these permits and governing

34:20documents right back to the projects

34:21that we're we're doing. These are a lot

34:24of regulatory based compliance-based

34:27projects.

34:30Um, I'm going to turn it over now to

34:32Hazen and Sawyer. I have Frank Aayat

34:34with me.

34:37>> Welcome.

34:37>> Okay, thank you. Uh, my name is Frank

34:40Aat. I'm with the engineering firm at

34:41Hazen and Sawyer. We are a consultant to

34:43the uh, public works on a number of

34:47engineering projects. One of which is

34:48the analysis of sewer rates. Um, we

34:52developed the model approximately six

34:54years ago. I believe this is our third

34:56update to the model. Um, in that update,

34:59we analyze operating and expenses costs,

35:02uh, annual debt service and an

35:04integrated capital improvement plan to

35:07replace aging infrastructure and, um,

35:11keeping up with the ever stringent

35:14environmental regulations.

35:16Um, at this point, I'd like to turn the

35:19presentation over to my associate,

35:21Olivia August, who's um, joined us by

35:24Zoom. She's in our financial services

35:26group and she's going to walk you

35:28through the data that we analyzed this

35:30year um as well as the analysis that

35:33went into it and the recommended rate

35:35increases for 2027, 2028, and 2029.

35:41So, with that, Olivia, I'll I'll I'll

35:44move the slides at your command. Okay.

35:46>> Thank you. Uh good evening, everyone. Um

35:49the agenda I'd like to cover today is as

35:52Frank said going a little bit um into

35:55the background of the rate model that we

35:57developed its purpose the function it

35:59serves um all of the data sources that

36:02we use to feed into the model to develop

36:04these recommendations and projections um

36:07based on future revenue requirements and

36:10needs. the projected wastewater expenses

36:13and capital projects. I will not go into

36:15as much detail as you just heard, but I

36:16will reiterate um some of those projects

36:19that um you just learned more about. And

36:21then uh finally go through the proposed

36:24wastewater rate increases for fiscal

36:26year 2027 through 2019.

36:30So a bit of background u the rate model

36:32is a financial model that's used to

36:34inform equitable, fiscally responsible

36:36and defensible rates. It is built using

36:40historical usage and building data. We

36:42have several years of data that's

36:44brought into this on top of historical

36:46financial information just debt service

36:48payments and planned uh capital

36:51investments

36:53as well. So the next five-year capital

36:55plan is also an input into this model.

36:58And the model is going to be is

37:00Excelbased but uses PowerBI for the data

37:03model and visualizations. The Excel is

37:06where we take all the financial

37:07information that I just mentioned and um

37:11update it each year to make sure it

37:13reflects current finances and plans as

37:17well.

37:18A bit more on the data sources. As I

37:20said, we have usage data from several

37:23years. We rely on the most recent usage

37:25data. So the fiscal year 2025, we have

37:28the full year for that which is used as

37:30well as um the fiscal year 2025 actual

37:33revenue and expenses. We have the sewer

37:36rate increases that were previously

37:38approved as well as the next five years

37:40of capital requests. We have the latest

37:43dates debt service schedule as well as

37:45any planned debt service payments to pay

37:47for those capital expenses. Um and then

37:50operating and capital equipment reserve

37:52fund balance which I'll talk more about

37:53later.

37:56So you can see here the projected

37:57expenses um over the last five plus and

38:02and into the future they're projected to

38:04increase as we talked about the several

38:07projects that are regulatory required

38:09maintenance that's needed at uh the

38:11plants stations um and throughout the

38:14system

38:15expenses are projected to increase over

38:17the next five years and therefore we

38:19need to increase rates u to make sure

38:21that there's s sufficient revenue to

38:24cover these projected expenses and these

38:27projects that are are required as well.

38:32Some of them being, as you learned more

38:34about earlier, the wastewater treatment

38:36plant uh phase one upgrades, [laughter]

38:38the wastewater maintenance facility, the

38:40sludge storage tank upgrade, the consent

38:43decree operational expense expenditures,

38:46inflow and infiltration program, storm

38:48water management, the river levy

38:50rehabilitation as well as uh expenses

38:54related to CSO flooding and future class

38:57A bioolid solution.

39:01>> [cough and laughter]

39:01>> I wanted to give a bit a bit of

39:03background on cost escalation

39:05specifically to the sewer market. So if

39:08you look at this chart, the dark brown

39:10line is showing you the inflation cap

39:14the consumer price index inflation over

39:16the last 10 plus years. And you can see

39:19that the pink and orange which indicate

39:21O andM and capital expenses especially

39:24since uh 2020 have drastically surpassed

39:27the CPI averaging on an annual increase

39:31of about 8% for capital expenditures

39:33which is going to be the majority um of

39:36overall as well as 6% annually

39:38increasing for O andM when CPI has

39:41averaged around 4.5. [snorts]

39:45So based on the the projected expenses

39:49and the rate model that we um put this

39:51information into, these are the proposed

39:53rate increases we have for the next

39:55three years. A bit of background in 2024

39:58after um not increasing rates in 2023

40:01there was a substantial increase needed

40:03to kind of um uh increase the fund

40:07balance recover costs of 15%. The last

40:10two years we've had uh to increase rates

40:1310% and now we're leveling off um and

40:16proposing for the next three year years

40:18an increase of 7% per year.

40:24I want to show what that means. 7% can

40:26sound um like a lot and it's and I don't

40:30want to you know undermine it is an

40:32increase but when we look at your the

40:35average user and the average monthly

40:37bill this increase would roughly equate

40:40to around $3 increase per month in the

40:43sewer bill. So this is your typical

40:45residential user. They have a 5/8 inch

40:48meter and around 5cccf per month of

40:52usage. Um and so currently that user

40:56would pay around $43 a month for their

40:58sewer bill and with a 7% increase that

41:01would go up to $46.

41:03Um and then following year that would go

41:05up to 49 and 52. So wanted to show that

41:10what that would mean in terms of a bill

41:12impact perspective.

41:16We also looked at rates from neighboring

41:19utilities to compare where Nasha stands.

41:21And as you can see, uh, Nashville is on

41:23the lower end of the surrounding

41:26utilities we looked at, uh, others being

41:29Manchester, Conquered, Keane, Derry,

41:31Salem, and Portsmith. Um, important to

41:35note that while 7% might seem like a

41:37lot, it's it's lower than some averages

41:40and increases we found in um, some of

41:42these neighboring utilities. Manchester

41:44has approved a 19% annual increase over

41:482025 through 2028

41:51um to their monthly bill which means

41:53right now they're slightly higher than

41:56Nasha's bill but very soon it'll be um

41:59almost $15 $16 higher than Nasha's bill

42:03$65 per projected for 2028 where

42:06Nashville is projected to be 49.

42:09Additionally, concrete recently

42:11implemented a 16% increase to sewer

42:14rates. So, we're seeing high increases

42:16needed across the board to cover um as

42:18others talked about bioolids regulations

42:22um and other requirements for the sewer

42:24system.

42:26One thing we always consider when uh

42:28looking at rate increases is

42:29affordability. the uh EPA has metrics

42:33and standards to make sure that the

42:36average um sewer bill for the lowest

42:39quintile

42:40income users is below 2% of their median

42:44of their household income. So we made

42:46sure that through these increases that

42:48is maintained and that the portion of

42:52the bill is well below that 2%

42:54threshold.

42:58One item I mentioned earlier was fund

43:00balance. Fund balance is the amount of

43:03money needed to have in reserves for

43:06rainy day expenses for um things such as

43:11unexpected lower usage um that might

43:14reduce revenue or other um emergency

43:17needs. So there's three components in a

43:19typical fund balance uh goal and you can

43:22see that these are pulled from um a

43:25combination of your of the government

43:27financial finance officers association

43:30credit rating such as S&P Moody's and

43:33Fitch and other municipal bond

43:34covenants. The first is operating

43:37expenses. The fund should have at least

43:39four months of operating expenses. It

43:42should and that's your darkest color at

43:44the bottom. On top of that, it should

43:46have 25% of your annual capital

43:48expenses.

43:49That's that slightly darker green. And

43:52then it should have one full year of

43:53debt service um payments to make sure it

43:56can cover those costs as well. So this

43:58year is looking at as costs increase,

44:02the fund balance over the next few years

44:04will also need to increase to make sure

44:06that this reserve is meeting these three

44:09goals. So, our recommendations are to

44:12make sure that the fund balance is being

44:14maintained at a level at or above these

44:16goals, but also being considerate of

44:19making sure that it's not um exceeding

44:22unnecessarily to make sure it's

44:25equitable for the user.

44:29As you can see here, one of the

44:31financial metrics we look at and

44:33combination of others, I don't have all

44:34of them here today, but one of them is

44:36net revenue. So this is um pretty

44:39simpler. It's pretty much uh the

44:41difference between your expenses and

44:44revenue for the year. U a negative net

44:46revenue means your expenses are

44:48projected to exceed your revenue. So the

44:52goal is always to have a baseline of a

44:56positive or zero baseline. Making sure

44:58that um there's no projections that need

45:01us to dip into this reserve

45:02unnecessarily

45:04um and making sure that we're

45:05maintaining that fund balance. So you

45:07can see here with this 7% increase over

45:10the next three years, we're projecting

45:12that the the net revenue would stay at

45:15zero if not positive to make sure that

45:17the fund balance is maintained. We also

45:20look at other metrics such as debt

45:21service coverage, operational ratios to

45:24make sure that this rate increase and

45:26the funds as well as projected revenue

45:29meet those financial metrics as well.

45:35I believe that's all the slides we have

45:37today.

45:38Thank you.

45:39>> Okay. Well, thank you all for uh for the

45:44presentations. Um Director Photo, did

45:48you have anything else to say before we

45:49get into questions or

45:51>> No, I don't. Okay. Happy to enterain

45:53questions.

45:54>> All right. Great. So, I'm going to open

45:55it up um to questions and comments. Uh

46:00is there any alderman that like to

46:02speak? Alderman Johnson.

46:03>> Thank you. Um I started investigating

46:07some of this with the rate increases

46:10and I found out there's about a million

46:13dollars worth of um sewer fees that

46:17haven't been paid. Um that's what I've

46:20got. It It's really disheartening

46:23because I'm looking at the increases

46:26again. We just went through three years

46:28worth of increases.

46:30And although it says it's not a lot of

46:32money, but we our bills aren't monthly.

46:35Our bills are quarterly.

46:36>> Correct.

46:37>> And during the summer, our bills tend to

46:40go up because of the amount of water we

46:42use. Am I correct?

46:44>> It's based on

46:45>> No. No. The the usage is is based on on

46:49the winter usage,

46:51>> right?

46:51>> Yeah.

46:52>> Excuse me. It's your your sewer bill is

46:56based on winter usage, not not spring

46:59and summer usage.

47:00>> Well, that's what I was not told years

47:02ago. It was based on Excuse me. All

47:06Yeah. When [clears throat] I was on the

47:07board before, they told us it was

47:09different. That's how come I know this.

47:11This is why I'm asking these questions.

47:13Sure.

47:13>> You know, everybody could shake their

47:14heads. No.

47:16>> But, you know, I see when my bills go

47:19up, my wastewater bill goes up. It seems

47:22to go up higher around this time of

47:24year.

47:26>> Well, if I if I may.

47:28>> Yes, you may.

47:28>> That That's because the the the bills,

47:31>> right,

47:31>> get c they jump in July,

47:34>> right?

47:35>> That's when usually January and July is

47:38when they go up, right? Am I correct?

47:40>> Uh the they usually start in January.

47:43The increases are usually in January but

47:46but then but the billing wouldn't happen

47:48until

47:50uh at CFO right can you we don't waste

47:54we public works does not do any of the

47:55billing that's done through the uh the

47:58treasur's office so maybe she can help

48:00us even though uh my my my question was

48:03even though the rates actually are in

48:05effect January 1 the first sewer bill

48:09does not go out until

48:12>> um gone in Right. CFO. It It depends

48:15whether they're quarterly or monthly.

48:17They we do send out bills quarterly and

48:20monthly, but the rate increase is

48:23January 1st,

48:25>> but the change yearover-year

48:28for your flow charge, which is uh

48:31dictated by your Penachuck water usage

48:36from October to March, and that begins

48:41in July. That's what I

48:42>> So, you would see the increase in July

48:45on the flow charge.

48:47>> Okay.

48:48>> Yeah.

48:48>> Thank you.

48:49>> You're welcome.

48:50>> Uh, Alderman Johnson,

48:52>> thank you. U, could I have Miss Enright

48:54come back up?

48:55>> Sure, please.

48:56>> Yes, please. Thank you.

49:01>> Thank you. May I ask a question?

49:03>> Of course. Yeah.

49:03>> Thank you.

49:04>> I've been corresponding with your office

49:07trying to find out how much outstanding

49:10um unpaid

49:12um sewer bills. Am I correct? Is about a

49:14million dollars worth. I think that was

49:16my last email. It was said somewhere

49:18around there.

49:20>> The correspondence that we had with you

49:22was five years of delinquencies and it

49:25was $1.7 million,

49:27>> which 1 million is current bills that

49:30are not due.

49:32>> Okay. So, my question here, if I may

49:35continue,

49:35>> of course. Yes. The floor is yours until

49:37you Yep.

49:38>> Okay. so I don't have to keep dancing

49:41and for um what do we do because this is

49:44important to everybody because you're

49:45asking us to raise you want increases

49:48and yet we have people who owe money and

49:51somebody's got to take the brunt of this

49:52also you know because if we're not

49:54collecting it

49:56do we collect the outstanding fees that

49:59haven't been paid what do we do

50:01>> yes according to um the statute we

50:04collect sewer fees in accordance with

50:06RSA80 which is the tax collection

50:08process which involves a leaning and

50:12ultimately a property deeding on uh

50:15unpaid delinquencies.

50:16>> And how many do we have um leaned? So

50:20right now that owe us

50:23>> um

50:26at this given moment we have

50:28approximately 600 properties that are um

50:32leaned

50:33>> that are leaned.

50:34>> Yes.

50:35>> Okay.

50:37I I'm having a hard time with raising it

50:40again. I when three years ago I asked

50:43about this I believe director photo I

50:46had a long conversation with you and

50:47other people about this um why we raised

50:51it and could you refresh my memory why

50:54we raised this three years ago over this

50:57last three-year period exactly

50:59>> to be honest with you I would have to

51:01look back on Johnson I don't have that

51:03at my fingertips right now

51:05>> okay okay I'm it's just given that you

51:08know penetruck is asking for 21% plus

51:11increase. Right now, property taxes

51:14aren't going to probably be about an 8%

51:16because the mayor's going to put $6

51:18million down. I just think that, you

51:21know, we're coming to a point that the

51:24taxpayers feel we got to have a break

51:26here. You know, every year it keeps

51:29going up. And I understand. And I know

51:32what you want to do with the facility

51:34also. You want to put a garage in a new

51:36building eventually. Am I correct?

51:39We haven't really discussed that at this

51:42point. Uh but event the it's not wanting

51:46a new garage. There may be a bioolids

51:49drying facility that would need to go

51:51where the current garage is, which would

51:53force that the current garage to be

51:56moved to a different location. That that

51:58would be the driver behind that. But

52:00again, that's really dependent upon what

52:02we decide we're going to do. As the

52:05superintendent said, we're trying to

52:06look at other options for the bioolids

52:09that would be less expensive and one of

52:12those op a great option would be to try

52:14to use it for cover at the landfill. So,

52:17we're looking at that. In fact, I think

52:18Hazen and Sawyer will be looking at that

52:21for us on on options on how we might go

52:23about doing that. So, there's a lot of

52:25things that are still

52:28uh up in the air in terms of that. I

52:30wish there was some options that for one

52:32year we wouldn't raise the fees so

52:35everybody it would just kind of be flat

52:38and then maybe the next year because

52:40it's been said to me when I was on the

52:41board we didn't raise anything and

52:42that's not true. You know, we raised it

52:45when we had to raise it and if we didn't

52:47have to raise it we didn't. And so I

52:52just think that at this point in time,

52:54people just need to have a little bit of

52:55a break. And if you didn't have to raise

52:58it one year and then the next year do

53:00your increase, not a large increase, but

53:02the same increase that you're going to

53:04do now, I think it would be a lot easier

53:06for people to understand and to be able

53:09to cope with it at this point in time.

53:11Thank you.

53:12>> And I and I understand what you're

53:14saying and we're certainly trying to

53:16keep the rates as low as we can. The

53:18problem with not having an increase, and

53:21we did that, is that we ended up with a

53:2315% increase. And and that's what

53:26happens because unfortunately, whether

53:28we have an increase or not, these

53:30expenses don't go away and our

53:31compliance issues don't go away. So,

53:34what we're trying to do is get it to a

53:36point where we're leveling off so we're

53:38not having those large increases. And we

53:42there was a there was a point in time

53:44talking about history uh Alderman

53:46Johnson when the fund was was

53:48essentially depleted. It was all the

53:50money was put I I'm not sure exactly but

53:53put us in a really really bad position

53:56and we don't ever want to want to be in

53:58that situation again. And and again we

54:00don't want to have 15% or 19% or or you

54:04know 16% increases like we're seeing our

54:07our counterparts having. So I think

54:09having sort of those low steady

54:12increases, you know, makes the most

54:14sense in terms of not having very large

54:17increases in the future.

54:18>> May I respond?

54:19>> Of course. Yes.

54:20>> Because I wasn't on the board when there

54:21was a 15% increase. I was gone after

54:242005. And I didn't return to the board

54:27until this year 2026.

54:30And so I don't know what happened in

54:32between how things got depleted. I mean,

54:35I guess you might say it was poor

54:37management. or something because people

54:40should be looking at the funds and how

54:42the money is being dispersed.

54:44So, you know, I've got a letter from a

54:47constituent that's talking about between

54:49the property taxes, the sewer, the

54:51wastewater taxes, the the u penetruck

54:54water that's going up. You know, it it

54:58gets to that point and time again, I'm

55:00going to say it. People don't know where

55:03you're going to get the money sometimes

55:04to pay. You know, the biggest hit is the

55:07property taxes.

55:08>> Sure.

55:09>> And so again, this year, you know, we're

55:12gonna get a big hit uh because the

55:15budget. But thank you very much.

55:17Appreciate it.

55:19>> Thank you. Uh any other questions,

55:22comments? Uh Alderman Cle.

55:24>> Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I was

55:27on the board when we had to make the 15%

55:30and um I'm sure the the chair will

55:33remember that discussion. it was we had

55:36gone years without actually having an

55:38increase and when it came to that point

55:41and I remember um Alderman Clemens

55:43actually saying we can't do this we have

55:46to start looking at doing this every

55:48single year or and so on and we agreed

55:51that we would have those couple of years

55:53of higher ones so that we could come

55:55down and that we could level but we had

55:57to get the account to that if we go back

56:00without doing this increase and and and

56:03um you know to my colleague from W 5. I

56:06don't disagree with one thing that

56:07you've said. Um I completely understand

56:09all your comments and statements, but I

56:12was here on that board when we had to

56:13make that hard decision. I think we

56:15actually you wanted a even higher one or

56:18was there was a discussion of and we

56:20kind of put we did a small one and then

56:23kind of jumped up to that that larger

56:25one if I remember correctly. But um

56:28there was a lot of conversation. It

56:29wasn't just like a let's do this. Um

56:32there was a lot of painful um

56:33discussion. There was let's do this cut,

56:35let's do that cut so that we had didn't

56:37have to do it. But we put a plan in

56:39place and the plan in place would be

56:41that we would do exactly what we're

56:43doing now and that we would work it. Um

56:45and I've heard you say before we have to

56:48have a plan. We have to look forward.

56:49That's what this is. This is that plan.

56:51And if we start to veer from it, we're

56:53going to get back to the suddenly next

56:56year won't be 7%, it'll be 10% again. um

57:00and maybe the year after that's going to

57:01have to be 10% to make up for the 7%

57:03that we didn't put through there. By

57:05doing this, we're actually doing less

57:07than we did in the previous year. So,

57:08while I completely respect everything

57:10that you say, and I understand what

57:12you're saying that's you're you're not

57:14wrong in anything you're saying, it's I

57:16think it would be fiscally irresponsible

57:18if we don't do some kind of increase at

57:21least every year and and try to keep

57:23things steady. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

57:25>> Thank you.

57:26>> Any other questions, comments?

57:30Well, I I as the previous speaker said,

57:33yeah, we we did I was on the board when

57:37that 15%

57:39came up and it was you know it it was a

57:42shock and you know the the discussion

57:46was at the time we don't want to have

57:49that happen again and uh so you know

57:53while

57:56while the 7% over the next three years

57:59um

58:01is higher than than we would you know

58:04than anybody would want. The reality is

58:07is that the

58:10these costs are are are mandated a lot

58:13most of them are mandated through the

58:16state or by uh the EPA and we have to do

58:20them. And the other part of it is is as

58:24director photo said it's the it's one of

58:25the most important facilities in the

58:27city and we don't want it to fail. So

58:31keeping up with with the basic

58:32maintenance of it is is extremely

58:35important. Um it's a health concern

58:39um that we have to uh to do these things

58:42and unfortunately the cost of of of

58:46construction with inflation and

58:48everything else is through the roof

58:49right now. Um and you know so that if if

58:54that if that number wasn't so high the

58:56number in that 7% would be lower.

59:00[snorts]

59:01So, you know, I we got ourselves to in

59:052024, we we said, "Okay, we'll go

59:07through with this and then we're at a

59:10place now where we're better off than

59:12our counterparts." Um so, you know, I

59:17reluctantly uh will be supporting this

59:20um because the reality of it is if we

59:22don't do this um we're we're just going

59:25to hurt ourselves

59:27because we're going to have to increase

59:29it. So, if we don't do 7% this year,

59:31we'll have to do 14% next year. If we

59:34don't do anything the next two years,

59:35we're going to have to do 21% the year

59:37after, and maybe even more. Who knows?

59:40So, I I just think we we should do what

59:44um

59:46what what's been presented to us and uh

59:49and move forward that way. Uh, Alderman

59:52Johnson,

59:52>> thank you. uh question it says here um

59:57on the overview it also services Hudson

59:59Marramac and Tingsboro is that those the

1:00:02towns or

1:00:04>> Yes.

1:00:05>> It's just a small portion like Marramac

1:00:07it's Penachuk Square at the end of

1:00:09Amherst uh and then Tingsboro is where

1:00:12the mall is.

1:00:13>> So just small section

1:00:14>> just because they're within our

1:00:15parameters

1:00:16>> right so are we getting revenue from

1:00:19from them?

1:00:20>> Yes. And about how much do we get from

1:00:22them? Do we know?

1:00:24>> I'm not sure.

1:00:25>> Okay.

1:00:26>> I Carolyn, I don't not sure if you're

1:00:29available and can answer that question

1:00:32or not, but

1:00:35>> she's on Zoom. I'm not sure.

1:00:37>> Issues.

1:00:39>> Oops.

1:00:40>> Sorry, had trouble getting my camera up.

1:00:42Um, Hudson contributes 12.58%

1:00:47to the cost of plant capital projects

1:00:50and um, I would have to go and look up

1:00:52what last year we received for um, for

1:00:55their flow charges,

1:00:58but they do pay for for being able to

1:01:01use the facility.

1:01:05So that is calculated into the increase

1:01:08that you're asking the citizens.

1:01:13>> Um

1:01:13>> that is that is considered

1:01:15>> that is considered.

1:01:16>> Sure.

1:01:16>> Yes.

1:01:17>> And um

1:01:20this isn't let me refresh my memory.

1:01:22This this account is it subsidized more

1:01:27by the general fund or is it just by

1:01:30fees?

1:01:31>> Simply by fees.

1:01:32>> Just by fees. Correct. Okay.

1:01:36Thank you.

1:01:38>> Okay. Uh further discussion.

1:01:43>> Um seeing none, uh the motion on the

1:01:46floor is to recommend final passage. Um

1:01:50would uh the clerk please call the role.

1:01:53>> Uh Alderman Tibo votes yes. Alderman

1:01:55Johnson,

1:01:55>> no.

1:01:56>> Alderman Clemens,

1:01:57>> yes.

1:01:57>> Alderman Kelly,

1:02:00>> yes. uh 3 to one it passes.

1:02:03>> Okay. Uh thank you everybody for for

1:02:06coming this evening and all of the

1:02:08presentations and that will be forwarded

1:02:10to the board not tomorrow night. I don't

1:02:12think it'll be the following meeting. So

1:02:16>> Okay. Thank you.

1:02:19>> All right. Um

1:02:21next we have tabled in uh committee. Is

1:02:25there anyone here present who would like

1:02:27to take something off the table? Well

1:02:30actually I think

1:02:32we actually

1:02:33>> yeah we had already taken off Paula's it

1:02:35should have been in

1:02:37>> so we have so we yeah it should not be

1:02:40actually in table it should be in new

1:02:42business uh ordinances so

1:02:44>> right

1:02:45>> uh that one is

1:02:48>> uh ordinance 26002

1:02:51so it's technically not tabled so do I

1:02:54have a uh a motion

1:02:55>> yeah I'd like to make a motion to remove

1:02:57from the table O- 26. Don't need to

1:02:59remove it.

1:03:00>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'd like to make a

1:03:02motion uh to for O-26-002

1:03:06to uh recommend final passage.

1:03:08>> Okay. Motion is for final passage.

1:03:11Alderman Johnson.

1:03:12>> Thank you. I'd like to see this finally

1:03:14passed. This has been sitting in this

1:03:17committee way too long. Um under the um

1:03:21title two of the ADA

1:03:23um law. I don't I see that attorney

1:03:28Bolton is here. I don't know if he'd

1:03:30like to speak on this. Um I did get a

1:03:34legal opinion from attorney Clark

1:03:36regarding this, but um there's no reason

1:03:39why we cannot have um members of this

1:03:44community that are disabled to be able

1:03:46to zoom in. Um I did have

1:03:50recommendations. I did the last time I

1:03:53took it off the table. Um there was a

1:03:55sample letter that you could send in um

1:03:58to request this. I know two members of

1:04:00the public have requested this already

1:04:03through risk and I will say last year

1:04:06when I broke my kneecap I went through

1:04:08risk and they questioned the New

1:04:12Hampshire Department of Transportation

1:04:14and whether or not they should

1:04:16[clears throat] allow me to do and I

1:04:18spoke to the gentleman. He said, "I

1:04:20would recommend that you allow her to

1:04:23participate by Zoom." I will also say

1:04:27that the planning board allows everybody

1:04:29to participate by Zoom. And this board,

1:04:32we have the capability. We had members

1:04:35of the of the administration, staff,

1:04:38employees

1:04:40here zooming. We have an older woman

1:04:42that's zooming tonight and yet people

1:04:44who are disabled, members of the

1:04:46community can't do it. I think it's a

1:04:48shame.

1:04:52>> Uh, Alderman Tibo,

1:04:53>> thank you. Um, I I'll say something that

1:04:55often gets sent back to me when I say

1:04:57things. We're not the planning board,

1:04:59right? When I say Manchester, people go,

1:05:01"We're not Manchester." So, we're not

1:05:03the planning board. Um, you know, they

1:05:06have their own staff that handles all

1:05:07that stuff. It's not the same staff,

1:05:10legislation staff that handles us. We

1:05:11get Donna. Um, they have a a whole

1:05:14department. Um, so I'm not I'm not for

1:05:17this. Main reason is again you're saying

1:05:20people with disabilities, but it clearly

1:05:22says here walking disabilities. So

1:05:25again, how are you proving that? Um, and

1:05:28you know, uh, the person that spoke in

1:05:30public comment, she said, I was on my

1:05:32way here and somebody said they were

1:05:33dizzy and they weren't coming. So if we

1:05:35had Zoom, they'd just be able to Zoom.

1:05:37They would not be because who are they

1:05:39going to reach out to to Zoom if it's 7

1:05:42o'clock? Donna is not here. We're not

1:05:45able to give them a Zoom link. I'm not

1:05:46checking my email to see if anybody's

1:05:49So, how would we have let that person

1:05:51into Zoom? So, I don't think this

1:05:53legislation really explains how would we

1:05:55implement it. And it's going to be

1:05:58painful for Donna Graham to have to try

1:06:02to figure this out. And what if Donna's

1:06:04out? And what if the backup can't figure

1:06:06like there's a lot of ways that this

1:06:07could go wrong and not do what it means

1:06:10to do it. How do you prove who has a

1:06:11walking disability? Anybody can say they

1:06:13have a walking disability.

1:06:16You will get your turn to speak. You can

1:06:17put your hand down. So, you know,

1:06:21anybody can say they have a walking

1:06:23disability. I have neuropathy in my

1:06:24feet. I can say I have walking

1:06:27disability. I can't feel the bottom of

1:06:29my feet. I can't feel hot water or cold

1:06:31water. I could I could say I could zoom

1:06:34in if I was a member of the public. So,

1:06:35how am I going to prove that to Donna

1:06:37Graham? So, I'm going to vote no. and

1:06:40and doesn't matter what you think. I'm

1:06:42still going to vote no. Like you I'm I'm

1:06:44not going to change my mind on this.

1:06:46That's how I feel. And so you can say

1:06:48whatever you want, but I'm still going

1:06:49to say this legislation is so generic it

1:06:53doesn't explain how you would actually

1:06:55solve for it. So I I can't I can't vote

1:06:59for it.

1:07:01>> I'm going to uh ask um Attorney Bolton

1:07:05to to to weigh in on on this um a little

1:07:09bit. And I have a question. Um,

1:07:13how is the how would

1:07:17would this potentially lead to

1:07:19discrimination to to some people and not

1:07:23others? I guess is my my question. The

1:07:25way that this is written,

1:07:29>> well, it doesn't provide other than

1:07:32walking disability. The definition of

1:07:35disability in the American Disability

1:07:38Act is far broader and deals with all

1:07:42kinds of other conditions that may may

1:07:46cause people hardship and maybe some of

1:07:50them would like the same consideration.

1:07:54Uh so someone

1:07:58to to just give an example, someone who

1:08:00is blind and unable to drive here

1:08:04uh might say, "Well, I have a

1:08:06disability. I'd like to be able to make

1:08:09public comment by Zoom." So that's a

1:08:12possible case. Frankly, it's a case that

1:08:15could be made now, but I don't know that

1:08:17any blind person has requested

1:08:19accommodation in that way. So they a

1:08:23request has to be made and evaluated and

1:08:27weighed against the

1:08:31against the hardship that it would

1:08:33entail which can be a financial cost. It

1:08:37could be disruption to the operation of

1:08:40the city. Uh if if the analysis were

1:08:45that this would change the whole

1:08:49way meetings are run and uh take a great

1:08:53deal more time and the board would be

1:08:56unable to deal with

1:08:59legislation that it's here to deal with.

1:09:02Then maybe you'd say well

1:09:05opening it up too far is going to be

1:09:08create a problem. So, we have to find an

1:09:10alternative.

1:09:12Uh, if you're worried about people

1:09:13driving in the dark, you may want to

1:09:15have public comment sessions

1:09:19before the sun goes down. Or you may

1:09:22want to provide other means of having

1:09:25the public provide input.

1:09:28Um,

1:09:30send in videos of them explaining their

1:09:33positions, for example.

1:09:36Uh but all of all of that is for this

1:09:39board to determine, but this ordinance

1:09:42deals with a very small portion of a

1:09:46much bigger issue.

1:09:48>> Thank you, uh, Attorney Bolton. Um, I

1:09:51had Alderman Johnson. Next.

1:09:57>> Well, I've asked and before I when this

1:10:00first um I introduced it, I was more

1:10:03than happy to add um people who have a

1:10:07disability

1:10:08caused blindness, being blind, and other

1:10:12medical issues. This was written off of

1:10:16the RSA because this is basically what's

1:10:20used most of the time with the RSA. But

1:10:23if you think about this, a walking

1:10:26disability, if you have a heart

1:10:27condition, that's a medical condition.

1:10:29And the walking disability is caused

1:10:31because of the heart condition. If you

1:10:33can't breathe and you have to use

1:10:34oxygen, that comes underneath that. So

1:10:38when you take a look at the RSA, it

1:10:41lists some of the disabilities. We can

1:10:44amend it and add people who have a

1:10:46vision problem that should be able to

1:10:50remote in. But the government is getting

1:10:53stricter now. We all know that they just

1:10:56added in caption for meetings.

1:11:00And the next part is going to be I

1:11:02believe next April 15th is going to be

1:11:04for the vision impaired.

1:11:07And so this can always be amended to add

1:11:12more as we go along here if we have

1:11:15people who need to have the

1:11:17accommodations.

1:11:19But you know, I'm going to go back and

1:11:21Attorney Bolton knows, you know, and

1:11:23I've got my paper here that because the

1:11:25board of ed had to write

1:11:28um

1:11:30a policy

1:11:32because you can't discriminate if you

1:11:34can't wear a mask and you're sick. and

1:11:36they had to write a whole policy on that

1:11:38and nobody cared about that during COVID

1:11:40if people were sick and you couldn't

1:11:41wear masks because of medical

1:11:43conditions. And I brought that to the

1:11:45Office of Civil Rights and I'm going to

1:11:47be very honest here. I'm so aggravated

1:11:49about this. I did file a complaint with

1:11:51the Office of Civil Rights again on this

1:11:55because there is no reason why this

1:11:58cannot be brought forward and start

1:12:01building on it to at least give some

1:12:03people the opportunity. And yes, we are

1:12:06not the planning board, but if the

1:12:08planning board has the good sense to be

1:12:10able to allow people to zoom in, whether

1:12:13they're disabled or not, we're doing the

1:12:16biggest disservice because we are the

1:12:18board that makes the policies. We are

1:12:20the board that spends the money. We are

1:12:23the board that controls the city. And

1:12:26yet, it's not important for our

1:12:29constituents to weigh in on anything if

1:12:32they can't make it here. And last year

1:12:35when I was told definitely disabled,

1:12:39couldn't walk, and I have a disability

1:12:41anyway cuz I got license plate on my car

1:12:43that says I'm disabled.

1:12:45That's a slap in the face to people who

1:12:48are disabled. I mean, we we're told that

1:12:52you can't discriminate against anybody.

1:12:54We need to love everybody, but a person

1:12:56who's disabled doesn't matter. Well, I'm

1:12:59going to tell you, we have rights also

1:13:01out there under ADA, and it was Senator

1:13:06Kennedy that started this whole thing.

1:13:10>> Thank you.

1:13:12>> Next, I had uh Alderwoman Kelly.

1:13:17>> Uh thank you and thank you for to

1:13:19attorney Bolton for being here. I had

1:13:20similar questions um that you had asked,

1:13:23so I won't reiterate those. Um, and I

1:13:26will just weigh in a bit on the

1:13:28discussion. Not not very different than

1:13:31what I've said before. I thought that

1:13:33Zoom for everybody is important, but the

1:13:34biggest thing I worry about with this is

1:13:37if we only give it to people with

1:13:38walking disabilities, are we putting

1:13:40ourselves at risk of being um, you know,

1:13:44sued by someone who gets denied because

1:13:47we don't think what they said is a

1:13:48walking disability. So, I thought that

1:13:50the originator of the this piece of

1:13:53legislation was going to work on it and

1:13:55bring it forward more broadly. I will

1:13:57not support it the way it is.

1:14:00>> Uh, Alderman Cle,

1:14:02>> thank

1:14:04you. Um, Mr. chairman. Um I I have to

1:14:08say that my concern is that um the the

1:14:11the comments that were brought up um by

1:14:14the public about the two people that

1:14:16they experienced um I don't know if the

1:14:19first one um does or doesn't have a

1:14:21walking disability, but the the um

1:14:23criteria for this particular ordinance

1:14:25is 3 days. So if someone called and

1:14:28said, "I'm dizzy and I can't make it,"

1:14:29that doesn't follow the 3-day

1:14:30requirement that's within this this

1:14:32ordinance. So, they wouldn't have been

1:14:34able to um are we opening ourselves up?

1:14:37One of the reasons why we um moved the

1:14:40public out of um the Zoom was our lack

1:14:44of being able to control um things that

1:14:47were happening. We had a lot of people

1:14:49that were um talking over other people

1:14:52and we would try to mute them and they

1:14:53would unmute themselves. Um the CTV

1:14:56people didn't have the control. We had a

1:14:58gentleman who was um uh naked and uh

1:15:02stood up and his wife handed him his b

1:15:04the baby to cover himself. There were

1:15:06people that would hold up signs um to um

1:15:10and you know freedom of speech, all of

1:15:12all of that and so on. But it does

1:15:13become a distraction when you're trying

1:15:15to get the work done. So, um, my my

1:15:18concern is that, um, I said this before

1:15:22at at other meetings is what if someone

1:15:24is, um, you know, they slip on the ice

1:15:28on their way here to the meeting and now

1:15:30they suddenly can't come. We we've told

1:15:31them that nope, there's no Zoom link,

1:15:33there's no public Zoom link out. They'd

1:15:34have to go through all these processes

1:15:36of of signing up, of doing some kind of

1:15:40whatever the process is going to be. I

1:15:41don't think there's a clear enough

1:15:42process in it, but whatever the process

1:15:44is going to be. Um, that is my concern.

1:15:48So, I'm going to bring it down to the

1:15:51public's ability to reach to us. Um,

1:15:54whether it was I think it was mentioned

1:15:56that they could send in an audio or

1:15:58something like that. Right now, they

1:16:00have the ability to call us. My

1:16:02constituents call me all the time. They

1:16:04have the ability to send me an email. I

1:16:06have two or three emails for the next

1:16:08board of alderman um that have been sent

1:16:10to me um because they can't make it

1:16:12because they're not going to be in town.

1:16:13Um so there's all kinds of ways of

1:16:16reaching us. We're not prohibiting them

1:16:18from doing any of these of these things.

1:16:21Um while I do respect what the intent of

1:16:24this is, um I I keep hearing the words

1:16:27this is the first step. I think and I I

1:16:29I do not mean to speak to intent, so I

1:16:32am going to apologize ahead of time, but

1:16:34I do think in my heart um that the

1:16:36intent is to bring Zoom back to the full

1:16:38public. Um and I think that is the

1:16:41ultimate goal. Again, I'm speaking

1:16:43intent, so I apologize for doing that. I

1:16:46know that is not the right thing or the

1:16:48right process to do. Um but the um the

1:16:51the issue here is that

1:16:55I think that we're going to have control

1:16:56issues. we can't stop. We can't mute

1:16:59people. They'll have the ability to

1:17:01unmute themselves. If we had a different

1:17:03system, I've been on other systems where

1:17:05they have this um waiting room kind of

1:17:07thing. That's going to be an expense to

1:17:09the city. Plus, there's the additional

1:17:11licenses. We've had times when we've had

1:17:13the public here. I don't know how many

1:17:15of those people um had any kind of of

1:17:18disabilities. Um but if suddenly all of

1:17:20a sudden it's there, now we have license

1:17:22issues and and so on. Um and and to the

1:17:25um the maker of this particular one, I

1:17:27know one of the things that she had

1:17:29spoken about was her own physical

1:17:31disability um and not being able to do

1:17:33it. And the truth is you you were given

1:17:36accommodations of a of a very more

1:17:38comfortable chair and so on and then as

1:17:40you would come and you would leave you

1:17:41would walk up and down the stairs and I

1:17:43think that was great exercise and I

1:17:45admire you for doing that. However, you

1:17:47know, if if someone were to see that,

1:17:49and I'm not saying because I know you

1:17:51had that severe knee problem and so on.

1:17:53The point that I'm trying to make is if

1:17:55someone were given the privilege of

1:17:57doing that and then somebody sees them

1:17:59walking down the street, are we going to

1:18:00have problems saying, "Well, you gave it

1:18:01to them and you didn't give it to me and

1:18:04I have this temporary issue and so on."

1:18:06So, I think there's going to be an

1:18:08equity inequity and I I have some

1:18:10concerns about that. So,

1:18:12thank you for letting me speak.

1:18:14>> Thank you, uh, Alderman Johnson. Thank

1:18:16you.

1:18:18Yeah, I did get a chair, but I did ask

1:18:21to come in here when I couldn't walk. I

1:18:23did ask to zoom and I couldn't walk

1:18:25basically for 10 weeks. I had a brace on

1:18:28and I did go up and down the steps

1:18:29because it was good exercise and I still

1:18:32have a disability prior to this. I just

1:18:35want to read this to you because this

1:18:36was passed and I believe attorney Bolton

1:18:40knows about this. This is the board of

1:18:43eds be equitable access to public

1:18:46meetings. Now, this was passed by our

1:18:50New Hampshire RSA 354- State Commission

1:18:54for Human Rights and it was title two of

1:18:56the Americans with Disabilities Act. And

1:18:59I'll read this. The National Board of

1:19:01Education, the board recognizes the

1:19:03importance of conducting this was

1:19:05written when I was on the board. Um,

1:19:09attorney Clson had to write this because

1:19:12the Office of Civil Rights, um,

1:19:14Department of Education stepped in,

1:19:17conducting his public meetings in a way

1:19:19that makes them accessible to all who

1:19:22wish to attend and to participate,

1:19:25including individuals with disabilities.

1:19:28This is not only a legal requirement

1:19:30mandated by the provisions of title 2 of

1:19:33the Americans with Disabilities Act and

1:19:36New Hampshire RSA 354- A. Now the state

1:19:41can't be less restrictive. They have to

1:19:42be more restrictive. Okay. It is also

1:19:46consistent with the fundamental tenants

1:19:49of good government. The policy applies

1:19:51not only to members of the public but

1:19:53also members of the board and employees

1:19:55of the Nashville School District. in

1:19:57conducting its public meetings. The

1:19:59board will provide a venue that is both

1:20:01safe and free from physical and

1:20:04operational accessibility barriers. The

1:20:07board will also ensure that its

1:20:08communications with individuals with

1:20:10disabilities, including its

1:20:12communications during public meetings

1:20:14are as effective as its communications

1:20:16with others. To assist in complying with

1:20:20the importance policy, the board

1:20:22encourages any public meeting attendee

1:20:24who may need additional reasonable

1:20:25accommodations to notify the board

1:20:28president and or the superintendent of

1:20:30which such requests as much prior to the

1:20:34accept applicable public meeting as

1:20:37possible. The president board and or the

1:20:39superintendent will then work directly

1:20:41with the requesting attendee in as

1:20:44confidential a manner as possible to

1:20:46provide the requesting attendee with the

1:20:48necess necessary reasonable

1:20:50accommodations. Any information provided

1:20:52by requesting attending as part of this

1:20:55process will be kept as confidential as

1:20:57possible. All new members of the board

1:21:00will be required to go under undergo

1:21:02training.

1:21:04So, this came out of the fact because I

1:21:06filed the complaint with the Office of

1:21:07Civil Rights and they were told they had

1:21:10to come up with a policy and here's the

1:21:13policy. So, here's a policy with another

1:21:15board and here's a policy I'm asking

1:21:18with this board.

1:21:20We can't go back and say because people

1:21:24showed the private parts or whatever

1:21:26that we can't allow people who are

1:21:28disabled not to be able to zoom. That is

1:21:32discrimination of the biggest kind. This

1:21:35city takes federal and state funds. And

1:21:39I spoke to the Office of Civil Rights

1:21:41already. You're getting federal and

1:21:43state funding. You can't discriminate

1:21:45because you're afraid somebody might

1:21:48zoom make faces or something like they

1:21:50did in the past.

1:21:53I've sat down. I obviously I mentioned

1:21:55it to attorney Clark. Nothing else came

1:21:58out of this. You know, it's easy. I can

1:22:00amend it to add that we will not

1:22:02discriminate against people who have

1:22:04hearing problems, vision impairment,

1:22:08but this basically and here's the

1:22:11paperwork from the board of ed and it

1:22:13does not break down everything because

1:22:15you don't have to break it down. If a

1:22:17person is disabled, the person's

1:22:19disabled and the reason we did it off of

1:22:22the walking disability because it

1:22:24encompasses people's physical

1:22:26conditions. So if you had a brain

1:22:28aneurysm like my mother did the problem

1:22:31she was disabled was because of the

1:22:33brain aneurysm not because of the so

1:22:36much of the walking it was the medical

1:22:38problem. If you have emphyma you can't

1:22:41walk because of the emphyma the medical

1:22:44problem which causes the disability. And

1:22:46when we say we won't do this because

1:22:49you're afraid that everybody's going to

1:22:51open it up to everybody. I'm not looking

1:22:53to open it up to everybody. I'm looking

1:22:55to open up to people who cannot

1:22:57physically come in here. And when we

1:22:59don't want to do that, shame on us

1:23:02because we're dis we're now

1:23:04discriminating and you're not allowed to

1:23:06discriminate because of a disability.

1:23:08And whether people like what I'm saying

1:23:10or not, it is the truth. I fought for

1:23:14this when I was on the board because I

1:23:17couldn't wear a mask because I couldn't

1:23:19breathe with it. And it was like, well,

1:23:22the uh Mrs. Johnson, if she comes in

1:23:24without a mask, have the police remove

1:23:26her from the building. Is that right? Is

1:23:30that the right thing we do? Is that what

1:23:32we're supposed to be doing as human

1:23:33being? You know, people say we have to

1:23:35love everybody. Hate has no place, but

1:23:37hate is having a place here for a person

1:23:40who's disabled. Thank you very much. And

1:23:42shame on us,

1:23:45>> Alderman Tibo. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um,

1:23:50I mean, no shame on us. I mean, you

1:23:53didn't write legislation that

1:23:54encompasses this legislation in itself

1:23:57is discriminatory. Currently, no one can

1:24:00zoom from the public. Not one person

1:24:02from the public can zoom. City staff and

1:24:05alder. That's it.

1:24:07This would make it discriminatory

1:24:09because only part of the population

1:24:11would be able to zoom in. So, you can

1:24:14say every condition basically makes you

1:24:16not be able to walk. But there's some

1:24:18people with disabilities that can walk

1:24:20that still might not be able to come in

1:24:22for whatever reason. So this is

1:24:24discriminatory. So to to shame us all

1:24:27because we want to make sure that this

1:24:29is a safe space and that people can use

1:24:31our tools, right? People can participate

1:24:34in our meeting. They send in letters,

1:24:38they call us, they talk to us. There

1:24:42there's other ways to communicate with

1:24:43the board. We get emails to all of us

1:24:45all the time. There's somebody in the

1:24:46audience that emails us every day. So,

1:24:49we do get emails to the po board. So,

1:24:52there are ways for people to come in.

1:24:54I'll tell you now. Do they zoom in the

1:24:56board of ed?

1:24:58You were on the board of ed. Did you

1:24:59make sure everybody could zoom?

1:25:00>> They're not they're not equipped like

1:25:02this.

1:25:02>> Well, you should have got them equipped,

1:25:04right? Cuz that's discriminatory. Why

1:25:06are you talking to me when I'm talking a

1:25:08question?

1:25:08>> I'm not. It's rhetorical.

1:25:10>> Please.

1:25:11>> It's rhetorical. The board of ed cannot

1:25:13zoom in. And I didn't see any

1:25:15legislation at the time to get the tools

1:25:17to buy the equipment to do it. Could

1:25:20have been done. Anything can be done if

1:25:22you have the money to pay for it. If you

1:25:24want to pay for it. So I when you when

1:25:26you look at us and you you shake your

1:25:28hand and you say shame on all of you, I

1:25:31don't I don't like that. I don't think

1:25:33that's the the way to get anybody to try

1:25:35to do legislation that you want us to

1:25:37do. Shaming us isn't the right way.

1:25:40Maybe putting legislation in that

1:25:41actually makes sense and encompasses

1:25:43everything. Walking disability, again,

1:25:46how are you going to determine someone's

1:25:47going to call us and say, "Hey, I just

1:25:49had a stroke last week. I can't get in.

1:25:50Can you just pass me through?" How are

1:25:52we going to determine this? I don't That

1:25:55isn't even defined anywhere in this. So,

1:25:59again, I'm still not voting for it. And

1:26:02has nothing to do whether I care about

1:26:03the disabled or not. I do. But this is

1:26:06not the right legislation.

1:26:09Uh, Alderman uh, Cle,

1:26:12>> thank you. Um, I I I appreciate the

1:26:14moment. Um, I just want to clarify the

1:26:17comment. Um, I think it was taken

1:26:19incorrectly when I commented about the

1:26:21able-bodied person that had done what

1:26:23they had done. My comment was just that

1:26:25if we had opened it up to everybody,

1:26:28this could become an issue. It had

1:26:29nothing to do with someone who was um,

1:26:32disabled. It had nothing to do with

1:26:33someone that was like that. Again, I

1:26:35don't um think that this is uh good

1:26:39policy. We put in the three days. I feel

1:26:42like again, I'm going to just reiterate

1:26:44what I said. If someone has a problem

1:26:47within two days or that day, uh it was

1:26:50brought to our attention that there was

1:26:51someone who who was dizzy and unable to

1:26:54um be able to come in um at that moment.

1:26:58Um but maybe they would have been able

1:27:00to the day before. I don't I don't know

1:27:02cuz I'm not I don't know this person.

1:27:03and I didn't speak to this person. Um,

1:27:05but I I my concern is that even with the

1:27:103 days notice and and and how did they

1:27:12prove it? Um, the best of my knowledge

1:27:16um when it comes to the walking

1:27:17disability for the placard like I had to

1:27:19do and in order to get that was I had to

1:27:22have a doctor's note. Are we going to

1:27:23require people to have a doctor's note?

1:27:25I I don't want to get into that kind of

1:27:27business, but um you know, I'd have to

1:27:30leave it up to uh legal as to that if

1:27:32that would be the requirement or if we

1:27:34can just say you say it and therefore

1:27:36we're going to believe the public

1:27:37because we we should be believing our

1:27:39constituents and so on. Even though

1:27:40there will be a handful that will push

1:27:42the envelope and so on, I do believe

1:27:44that we should believe all those who who

1:27:46speak to us. Um, but anyways, my my

1:27:49comment was just to clarify that I was

1:27:51not speaking about this disabled when I

1:27:53spoke about that those people that were

1:27:55yelling and holding signs and and and so

1:27:57on. I was speaking about the general

1:27:59public if this went further um because I

1:28:02had just spoken to intent which I really

1:28:04should not have. So, thank you for

1:28:07allowing me that.

1:28:09>> Alderman Johnson.

1:28:10>> Yes.

1:28:12the meeting that I was not a um what was

1:28:15it July when I presented a whole packet

1:28:18and I was told nobody had a chance and I

1:28:21just handed it out and then I put my

1:28:24ordinance back on the table.

1:28:27It talks about

1:28:31um

1:28:33let me get to the beginning here.

1:28:36Sample language written request.

1:28:40It's again I'm just going to say we did

1:28:45it from the state RSA

1:28:48and I don't have a problem going back

1:28:50and rewriting it again. I really don't.

1:28:53But I again, I don't know if anybody had

1:28:56a chance to read this that I handed out

1:29:01that meeting when I was told I couldn't

1:29:05take anything off the table, which I

1:29:07think we got a legal opinion now that we

1:29:09can. Um, and I gave it to everybody to

1:29:13review and everything that I've handed

1:29:15and I've consulted with attorney Clark

1:29:19on this.

1:29:21I'm not a lawyer. I don't write things.

1:29:24I've got to make sure that is written

1:29:27legally.

1:29:30And so I don't mind going back to the

1:29:32drawing board again. I'll go back to a

1:29:34drawing board again.

1:29:37I'll just do some more research on

1:29:38everything.

1:29:40>> Is that a motion?

1:29:42>> I'll make a motion to table it again.

1:29:45>> Okay. Motion is to table. Non-debatable.

1:29:47Can the clerk please call the role? Uh,

1:29:51Alderman Tibo votes yes. Alderman

1:29:54Johnson,

1:29:54>> yes.

1:29:56>> Uh, Alderman Clemens,

1:29:58>> yes.

1:29:59>> And Alderman Kelly,

1:30:01>> yes.

1:30:03>> And it passes. It's, uh, back on the

1:30:05table. All right. Um the only other well

1:30:11ordinance 26004

1:30:14is on the table which is repealing the

1:30:18prohibition on camping on public

1:30:20property. Uh does the sponsor wish to

1:30:23remove that?

1:30:24>> Keep it on the table. Both of those can

1:30:25stay on the table.

1:30:26>> Okay.

1:30:28Uh

1:30:31the um

1:30:34also the other one uh ordinance 2605.

1:30:38Oh, both of them. I'm sorry. I didn't

1:30:39hear that. Okay,

1:30:40>> that's okay. I could probably speak a

1:30:41little louder. Yeah, just leave those on

1:30:42the table.

1:30:43>> Okay.

1:30:44Uh public, we're now we're at public

1:30:47comment

1:30:49and you have three minutes. Please city

1:30:52name and uh city.

1:30:55>> Lori Oralano, Nshawa. Um, I just want to

1:30:59read you um what Massachusetts had.

1:31:02Massachusetts has enacted legislation

1:31:04extending remote and hybrid access to

1:31:06municipal public meetings through June

1:31:0830th, 2027, expressly recognizing that

1:31:11remote participation expands civic

1:31:13access for residents facing barriers

1:31:15such as disability. This year they have

1:31:18two pieces of legislation on the table

1:31:20and are considering permanent leg

1:31:22legislation to modernize remote

1:31:25participation in public meetings for all

1:31:27people. That's what's going on down

1:31:29there. They do it for disabilities. I'm

1:31:32thoroughly disgusted with what I heard

1:31:33going on here. Where was Attorney Bolton

1:31:36to give the opinion on whether the

1:31:39legislation was legally sound? What was

1:31:42Dory Clark doing for months with you? I

1:31:46mean, she went to Dory Clark to produce

1:31:48legislation that is supposedly keeps us

1:31:51out of liability. If the walking

1:31:54disability is not broad enough, why

1:31:56didn't legal make it broad enough to

1:31:59include everyone? Derek Tibo is

1:32:01concerned how do we how do we enforce

1:32:04this? Who who gets called, you know,

1:32:06when somebody has a disability? You have

1:32:08an ADA compliance officer and Ross

1:32:10Stugus and Gender Shane. The two people

1:32:13that I referred to wrote letters to the

1:32:15ADA compliant officers. They're supposed

1:32:18to respond in 15 days. One filed a

1:32:22formal complaint. They haven't been

1:32:24responded to. And I said, "Just wait

1:32:27because this meeting is going to h

1:32:28happen. You help me figure out how they

1:32:31can file with human affairs or DOJ or

1:32:33whatever because it's not right. I don't

1:32:36understand why this is going on for 6

1:32:38months. You're a lunatic, Trish Cle.

1:32:41When you go off on, oh, this is going to

1:32:43expand to everyone. This is a disability

1:32:46issue. The naked person and the stuff

1:32:48that was out of control. I was at a lot

1:32:50of those meetings. There was so little

1:32:52of it and the public participation was

1:32:55so broad. And remember, we were in

1:32:57COVID, a pandemic of unprecedented, you

1:33:01know, status. Very difficult time. Get

1:33:04those memories out of your head and

1:33:06focus on what she's trying to do. and

1:33:09Paula and just go back and I would re

1:33:12Dory Clark a new one. I really would.

1:33:15Why did she produce legislation like

1:33:18this for you that isn't broad enough?

1:33:20Why didn't legal say tonight, "This is

1:33:22going to get us in trouble. It's his

1:33:25attorney who helped write it."

1:33:26>> 30 seconds.

1:33:27>> Make it broader. Paula, freaking tear it

1:33:30right open and open it for everyone. And

1:33:33then your compliance officers who are

1:33:35already appointed in this city will be

1:33:37the ones to determine. I can tell you

1:33:39there are people the person who was

1:33:40dizzy is over 85 years old. I think that

1:33:44person is not a night driver should

1:33:46automatically be granted access. The

1:33:50other person, Laura, you know Laura, she

1:33:53does not come out at night. Totally

1:33:55unstable. Not a night driver. Really

1:33:59much more diminished health.

1:34:01>> Absolutely. A clear person who belongs

1:34:04in that category. People shouldn't have

1:34:06to fight for this. I'm disgusted with

1:34:08what I heard tonight.

1:34:10>> Disgusted with the legal representation

1:34:12from the city.

1:34:16>> Attorney Wilton, would you like to

1:34:18respond?

1:34:23>> We do what an alderman wants us to do as

1:34:27far as writing it up. We don't rerun

1:34:31the entire operation of the city when

1:34:33someone comes in with a specific

1:34:35request. We are not allowed not to do

1:34:39that. Mrs. Johnson wanted walking

1:34:43disability. She wanted the placard to be

1:34:46the proof. That's what was written. I

1:34:48spoke to Dory Clark about this. We

1:34:51recommended against it. It was what Mrs.

1:34:54Johnson wanted. That's what got

1:34:56produced.

1:34:57>> I hope that's in the letter from legal

1:34:59that came to this board that legal

1:35:01wanted.

1:35:01>> Mrano, please. You had you had your time

1:35:05of crap from you. Attorney Bolton.

1:35:09[sighs]

1:35:09>> Attorney Bolton, if you'd like to

1:35:11continue and I apologize.

1:35:13>> The fact is

1:35:16the ADA,

1:35:17it's a federal statute, applies to this

1:35:20city.

1:35:23The policy adopted by the board of

1:35:26education basically recites what is

1:35:30required by the ADA. Whether you adopt

1:35:33that policy or a different policy

1:35:38or Mrs. Johnson's

1:35:41Allivan Johnson's

1:35:43proposed ordinance, the ADA still

1:35:47applies to this city.

1:35:50What you probably want to do is to

1:35:55affirm that you will comply with the ADA

1:35:58by adopting something similar to what

1:36:00the board of education has done. And you

1:36:04want to expand the process for

1:36:06considering

1:36:08each request for accommodation.

1:36:11What accommodation is desired?

1:36:14What are the barriers to providing that

1:36:17accommodation if any? Is cost a factor?

1:36:22Is the alteration in the nature of the

1:36:27governmental function an issue or not?

1:36:31I don't think this is something that Jen

1:36:34Det and Ross Dugis can assess. If

1:36:38something is going to cost a lot of

1:36:40money, the alderman have to be involved

1:36:42in making those kinds of decisions. So,

1:36:45you may want to put in place a process

1:36:47of how these decisions are going to be

1:36:50made. If you want them to be made by Jen

1:36:52and Ross, you could put that in, I

1:36:55suppose. But whether you pass the thing

1:36:58that was before you tonight or not, the

1:37:02ADA still applies.

1:37:04So,

1:37:07if you need to upgrade

1:37:10the video equipment

1:37:12in order to accommodate the number of

1:37:15requests that would be anticipated,

1:37:18you have to assess that. I'm in no

1:37:21position to help you with that. You're

1:37:23going to need people from it or or

1:37:27video experts

1:37:30to do [clears throat] that.

1:37:32Um, I know that when we've had

1:37:36substantial numbers of people

1:37:40zooming in, sometimes there have been

1:37:43difficulties.

1:37:45The whole sound,

1:37:47you know, turns off, no one can hear

1:37:51anyone else. And sometimes the picture

1:37:54goes off on some people, not all people.

1:37:58uh those those issues will be more

1:38:02frequent the more

1:38:05broadly the video function the zoom

1:38:08function is made available. So you all

1:38:11have to think about all that.

1:38:15>> Thank you uh attorney Bolton. I I

1:38:18appreciate that. Um so we we are in

1:38:20general discussion at this point. Um I

1:38:23saw Alderman Johnson's hand first.

1:38:25>> Thank you.

1:38:28In answer to the board of ed,

1:38:31we myself and Mrs. Brown talked about

1:38:35trying to expand everything in the

1:38:37school and we could not do it in that in

1:38:40that um conference area.

1:38:43We we tried to and the issue here is

1:38:47that

1:38:49and also an in ADA if I'm correct

1:38:52the accommodations can't be overly cost

1:38:58costly to expand it if I'm correct. Um,

1:39:03attorney Bolton, if I'm incorrect, just

1:39:05let me know. But I think I read that you

1:39:08can't

1:39:08>> Well, that's not what the law says. But

1:39:11>> am I close to it?

1:39:12>> The accommodation has to be reasonable.

1:39:15>> Reasonable.

1:39:17And so this is you heard it, you know,

1:39:20from the attorney. Basically, I don't

1:39:23remember how far back the conversation

1:39:25was with attorney Clark. Maybe I did say

1:39:28use the um ADA the walking disability as

1:39:33a point because that would kind I

1:39:35thought it was broad enough but I know

1:39:37that we have a couple of other issues

1:39:39but it's still under ADA and where we've

1:39:43already do the zooming in here and I did

1:39:47check with it and I did all my homework

1:39:50with it and I was told it wouldn't be a

1:39:51problem and I was told by uh Mr. Healing

1:39:55and by Miss Graham that they could bring

1:39:57them in and control it over here. So I

1:40:00did everything that I was asked to do at

1:40:03the beginning. I went knocking on

1:40:05everybody's doors and again like I said

1:40:08I spoke to the office of civil rights.

1:40:10They said you get federal and state

1:40:12funding.

1:40:14[clears throat]

1:40:14So and you heard it from the attorney.

1:40:17Thank you attorney Bolton. I greatly

1:40:19appreciate your help here. And

1:40:21>> I think you mean the Commission for

1:40:23Human Rights.

1:40:25>> No, I spoke to the Department of Civil

1:40:27Rights.

1:40:29I I called the Department of Justice

1:40:31Defense.

1:40:33I did call them. Um, and I did note my

1:40:37conversation with them. And I have a

1:40:40call into the Human Rights Commission

1:40:42again, too. How to file a complaint. I I

1:40:44just don't remember how to file another

1:40:45complaint.

1:40:47But the last time I did file my

1:40:49complaint with human rights, I had three

1:40:51counts of probable cause. And remember I

1:40:53said one thing was the last meeting. I

1:40:56said they didn't have to interview

1:40:58anybody because this told the story, the

1:41:00video and I just sent them the link to

1:41:03the YouTube video.

1:41:06And so they they watched it.

1:41:11three counts of probable cause

1:41:14because the board of ed didn't do what

1:41:16they should have done. I read you the

1:41:18whole board of ed policy

1:41:21and I'm glad what I did because I don't

1:41:23think anybody whether you can't see, you

1:41:26can't walk, you can't hear, whatever

1:41:28your disability is,

1:41:31you should have equal rights under the

1:41:33law, you get that protection.

1:41:36Thank you.

1:41:38further general discussion. Uh, Alderman

1:41:41Tibo and then Alderman Clay.

1:41:43>> Yeah. I mean, I just want to say this

1:41:44because every time I say it, I get

1:41:47snapped at. Um, we're not Massachusetts

1:41:50and people will use another state or

1:41:52another town when it benefits their

1:41:54discussion. But when I or one of us use

1:41:56it, someone else goes, "We're not

1:41:57Manchester. We're not Massachusetts.

1:41:59We're Nasha." And so, I'm going to say

1:42:01the same thing. We're Nashville. We

1:42:02ain't Massachusetts. Don't compare us.

1:42:04Don't mass us up. Uh people, we're New

1:42:07Hampshire. We're in Nashville.

1:42:11>> Okay. Uh Alderman Cle.

1:42:13>> Uh thank you um Mr. Chairman. Um I want

1:42:15to say that I admire the maker of the

1:42:17ordinance for willingness to um redo

1:42:20this again. And I want to make broad

1:42:22comment here that um this isn't the

1:42:25first time that your willingness to pull

1:42:27this and do this. So when you say that

1:42:29this has been there since January, you

1:42:32personally have pulled this back a

1:42:34couple of times. And I know that I have

1:42:36spoken to you a number of times and said

1:42:38is it going to be be taken off the table

1:42:40and you have said you weren't sure

1:42:43whether or not you were going to be able

1:42:44to and so on. So um some of the delays

1:42:47are not because this board did that. Um

1:42:50they were just happen stance. I'm not

1:42:52putting blame on anybody. I'm not but I

1:42:54want the public to know that this board

1:42:57did not um cause those delays. maybe the

1:43:01last time. Um I I can't disagree with

1:43:03that other than I believe the chairwoman

1:43:05said that um not having a heads up um

1:43:08kind of was was an issue and I I did

1:43:11agree with her because I if I had known

1:43:14that it would have been brought up, I

1:43:15would have attended that um that

1:43:17meeting. Um but I did not because I

1:43:20didn't believe it was and there were

1:43:21things and I'm not on this committee.

1:43:23You say the work belongs in the

1:43:24committee. So I try to do my best to be

1:43:26here. So, um I did appreciate the

1:43:29chairwoman saying that she would prefer

1:43:31not to be taken off the table. Um and

1:43:33for that, um again, I admire the the

1:43:36maker of the ordinance, um Alderman

1:43:38Johnson, and I will will say that for

1:43:40willingness to try to to work this out.

1:43:42But I also want to make a comment that

1:43:44if we um my concern, and I've said this

1:43:48over and over again, I don't care what

1:43:50the um the person from the public wanted

1:43:52to call me or say anything about about

1:43:54me, that that's her right to speak. and

1:43:56and so on. Um I disagree that I am truly

1:44:00of my own mind. Um um however, it's her

1:44:04opinion and and um she speaks it loudly.

1:44:06Um I have not once raised my voice here.

1:44:09I've been very calm. Um I try to say as

1:44:12many good things as possible because I

1:44:14don't think that this is bad idea. I

1:44:17just think this particular legislation

1:44:18is bad legislation and it does not fall

1:44:20on legal. It falls on us. Um legal does

1:44:23their job. I've given something to

1:44:24legal. has come back to me and said,

1:44:26"Oh, that's not exactly what I what I

1:44:28meant." And sometimes I actually have

1:44:30meetings much like you have. So, um, I

1:44:32want the public to know this and that's

1:44:34the reason why I'm I'm saying these

1:44:35things, not for the people here, but for

1:44:37the people out there that are either

1:44:39listening live or will be um following

1:44:41up on uh YouTube on the on the media

1:44:44link. So um but the the issues that I

1:44:48have and I hope that when you go forward

1:44:50that we talk about true not just

1:44:53disabilities. I mean I I want to say

1:44:56what about that person who just fell and

1:44:58suddenly needs it. Will we have that

1:45:00ability to on the fly give a zoom link?

1:45:03Well, we have to give individual Zoom

1:45:04leaks to everybody um so that we we know

1:45:08who it is or do we do a general one and

1:45:10what if they share it with someone and

1:45:12now suddenly somebody else is showing

1:45:14up? Do we do we will have the ability to

1:45:17knock them off if they're not on the

1:45:18list. However, what if my friend I I get

1:45:22this link and my friend um suddenly has

1:45:24a problem and wants to be there and I

1:45:26share that link with them. They have a

1:45:27disability and so on. I think this is

1:45:30really a a really indepth so you know my

1:45:33question not to legal now um because we

1:45:36I don't want to go debate on this or or

1:45:38so much but my question will eventually

1:45:41be um

1:45:43what is what is the outcome do we

1:45:46currently if we did nothing if we did

1:45:48absolutely nothing um as as one of my

1:45:51colleagues from W 9 says if we do

1:45:54nothing what will happen um I mean

1:45:57that's the key for us to here. And

1:45:59again, I'm not asking I'm just putting

1:46:00it out there as a rhetorical uh

1:46:02question. We hear all the times we'll be

1:46:03sued and and we'll have all these counts

1:46:05and so on, but if we have other ways of

1:46:08the public being able to speak. Now, I'm

1:46:11going to throw my monkey wrench into it

1:46:13when we have public hearings. That might

1:46:16be a different situation. Maybe there we

1:46:18need to do special accommodations. Um,

1:46:21and we're only talking about the board

1:46:23of alderman, but are we putting at risk

1:46:25any of the other committees that don't

1:46:27even have video? Um, are we going to

1:46:29have to say the public wants to speak at

1:46:31conservation or the HDC because they're

1:46:34in a butter or or something of that

1:46:36nature? This could balloon out. And I

1:46:39know I will be called a lunatic because

1:46:41I'm I'm looking around every corner and

1:46:43and every ifands or buts and and maybe

1:46:45it's ludicrous what I'm saying here, but

1:46:47whatever it is, um we have to think

1:46:50about all of the ramifications. So

1:46:52again, I thank you um Alderman Johnson

1:46:55um for for willingness to do this, but I

1:46:58want to make the public known you've

1:47:00been willing to do this and you have

1:47:01done the work and so on. So this delay

1:47:03is not because of this board or the

1:47:05board of alderman. Let's make that very

1:47:07clear. So, thank you.

1:47:09>> Uh, thank you, uh, Alderwoman Kelly.

1:47:13>> Uh, thank you. And I just wanted to

1:47:15thank Attorney Bolton for being here

1:47:17this evening. There were a number of

1:47:19legal questions that I had and I

1:47:20appreciated, um, the conversation around

1:47:22that. Um, I will reiterate, there's

1:47:26Miles. It's almost bedtime that time.

1:47:28Um, I will reiterate that uh when this

1:47:32is intended to be taken off the table, I

1:47:34would appreciate. I know it is not by by

1:47:38ordinance that you need to tell me, but

1:47:39if you tell us in advance, then people

1:47:41who want to speak to it can come to it.

1:47:42Public who are interested in weighing in

1:47:45can come to it instead of taking it off

1:47:47the table without the chair or anyone

1:47:48knowing. if I know in advance of the

1:47:52agenda putting together, we can give

1:47:53people heads up and make sure that

1:47:56anyone that we might have questions um

1:47:58that we would like answered can be here.

1:48:00And that's that's how we're supposed to

1:48:01work in committees. That's how we're

1:48:02supposed to work. If we have questions

1:48:04about something, we went legal there, we

1:48:05went on it there. Um there's specific

1:48:08alderman who, you know, are passionate

1:48:10about it that want to be there. We try

1:48:11to give heads up and that's just a

1:48:13courtesy um that I have seen on on my

1:48:15time in the board. you don't have to do

1:48:17it, but that is why we were hesitant to

1:48:20take it off the table the last time. Um,

1:48:23because we honestly wanted to have a

1:48:25true conversation about it. You have

1:48:27been bringing it back and back and back

1:48:29with edits. Um, and I appreciate that

1:48:32goiveness, but I also would appreciate

1:48:35making sure that people who really want

1:48:36to weigh in on it can. And I will say

1:48:38one other thing and this is you know to

1:48:42someone who just spoke before me. You

1:48:44know we have learned unfortunately due

1:48:47to you know circumstances that have come

1:48:49out of some of more recent policy

1:48:52decisions that we can surprise un you

1:48:56know have these unexpected consequences

1:48:58of a decision that we make in this

1:48:59chamber whether it's a flag pole or

1:49:02whether you have to say your you know

1:49:04where your address on the record. um

1:49:06we've had a lot of things especially

1:49:09around this area um become something

1:49:12that we are you know we're up against a

1:49:14lawsuit about. So I think it's very

1:49:15important for us to give due diligence

1:49:18to the policies that we're considering

1:49:20in front of us. Thank you.

1:49:23>> Go to bed, Miles.

1:49:25>> Uh thank you. Um

1:49:27>> yes, I'm not alone anymore, but he is

1:49:29not giving me any policy advice.

1:49:31Um,

1:49:33so I I I agree with uh with our

1:49:37chairwoman. Um, I think it is important

1:49:40that um,

1:49:43you know, that we have that that we

1:49:46should have the, you know, if we're if

1:49:48we intend to take something off the

1:49:50table, we we really should do everyone a

1:49:53courtesy and just, you know, say, "Hey,

1:49:56you know, I I was planning on this." Um,

1:50:00and that just gives the board an

1:50:01opportunity to to come if they want to

1:50:04or um, whatever. That being said,

1:50:10I will always vote to take something off

1:50:12the table when it's when a sponsor wants

1:50:15to. Um, because we can always put things

1:50:19back on the table. It doesn't mean that

1:50:23you can't take it off and have, you

1:50:25know, a a small discussion about

1:50:28something. I think the last time there

1:50:30was a communication,

1:50:32um, you know, so it it, you know, it

1:50:35goes both ways. Um it certainly goes

1:50:38both ways, but I I do agree that that in

1:50:41general we should we should just give

1:50:43each other the courtesy and you know say

1:50:47I you know in advance I'd like to to do

1:50:50this and then that way that gives um

1:50:53other members of the of the board the

1:50:55ability to come and and also weigh in.

1:50:58Um

1:51:00I'm going to go to now remarks by

1:51:02alderman.

1:51:05Oh, that wasn't remarks.

1:51:06>> No, that was general that was general

1:51:08discussion. Now we're remarks by

1:51:09alderman.

1:51:11>> I got none.

1:51:12>> Alderman Clay. Uh,

1:51:13>> thank you um very much. Um, I just I

1:51:16just want to comment that prior to this

1:51:18meeting here, I was at the Gley Park

1:51:19Advisory um uh committee. Um, a

1:51:23committee that was actually approved in

1:51:262022 by this by the board of aldermen.

1:51:29Um, and they've just really started

1:51:31getting together. Um it's a a really

1:51:33exciting um group of people that are

1:51:36looking at um Gorilli Park trying to

1:51:39consider a a master plan on how to

1:51:41maintain it, which is kind of what our

1:51:43our expectations and so on was of it. Um

1:51:46it's a the the dynamic conversation that

1:51:49this group has. I want to give kudos to

1:51:52it. um you know they're finding their

1:51:54way but I want to also thank um Director

1:51:58Sullivan because he's been going to

1:52:00these committees and helping them to

1:52:02design a master plan or or giving them

1:52:04ideas of how to do it. Um Gley Park is

1:52:07such a large park. Uh we think of Gley

1:52:10Park as just where the picnic tables are

1:52:12and where the other but it's not.

1:52:14There's the Manchester Street of it.

1:52:15There's the woods that are between that.

1:52:17There's the picnic area. There's the um

1:52:20the stage. There's the gardens. There's

1:52:22the woods. I mean, all the all the um

1:52:24fields, the woods that go behind it,

1:52:27there is the um when we go a little bit

1:52:29further there, we've got the boat ramp

1:52:31and so on. So, there's many aspects of

1:52:33it. It's a unique park. It's not like

1:52:35really, which is just a natural park. I

1:52:37mean, sorry, Minds Mine Falls, which is

1:52:39just a a a natural park. So, it has its

1:52:42uniqueness to it and so on. And this

1:52:44group of people have really started

1:52:45working really hard. They have 90-minute

1:52:47meetings. Um, and they're now going to

1:52:49start looking at each um, director

1:52:51Sullivan gave them direction of of break

1:52:53the park up. So, they're going to look

1:52:55at six different aspects of sections of

1:52:58the of the park and so on. Um, but I

1:53:00want to give the real kudos to um, uh,

1:53:04Miss Looney who has been doing the

1:53:06history of Gley Park and it is so

1:53:09amazing. They're going to be putting up

1:53:11a Facebook page and sharing this history

1:53:13of the of the um um the grave sites that

1:53:17are there of the um the history the deed

1:53:20of the property. It was not just one

1:53:23deed. There were multiple deeds. It's

1:53:24not just um so the the the family

1:53:28truthfully um the family um from Jay

1:53:31Gley his daughters wanted to turn it

1:53:34into a poor farm. They didn't want the

1:53:36city to have it. Um but he gave it to

1:53:38the city with a lot of different what

1:53:40needs to be done and so on. And it's

1:53:42really exciting to learn so much history

1:53:44about um this this park. Um just like

1:53:47Minefalls, you know, it's been

1:53:48interesting to learn about Minefalls,

1:53:50how it came to be in the city's hands

1:53:52and so on, as is Gley. Um you know, Trip

1:53:55Adviser, it's the number one spot to

1:53:57stop in NSHA. So um thank you for

1:53:59allowing me to speak on that. I'm really

1:54:01excited about it.

1:54:02>> Any other uh remarks by alderman?

1:54:06I just want to quickly thank uh our

1:54:09election workers for yesterday.

1:54:12Everybody did a fantastic job. Uh city

1:54:15clerk um hopefully is resting. Um we

1:54:20this is the first year that the

1:54:21ordinance I sponsored um which

1:54:25previously I sponsored the previous one

1:54:27which moved the election when there was

1:54:30an election on a Tuesday and we had a

1:54:32board meeting it would move to the

1:54:34Wednesday

1:54:36and um

1:54:39having talked to our current city clerk

1:54:42he's like I'm still exhausted [laughter]

1:54:44on Wednesday

1:54:46because the amount of work that I have

1:54:48to do on Wednesday

1:54:51just to get stuff up to the state. And I

1:54:53said, "Then let's do Thursday." And this

1:54:55board agreed with that and I think it's

1:54:58a good thing. So we'll have our full

1:55:00board of alderin meeting uh tomorrow

1:55:02night on a Thursday for the first time

1:55:05and uh I think it's a hopefully um Mr.

1:55:09Healey is well rested and um uh we'll

1:55:13see everybody there.

1:55:16Uh, Alderwoman Kelly.

1:55:18>> Ah, thank you. I I was actually going to

1:55:21say almost the exact same thing because

1:55:22I thought about you when I was like,

1:55:23"Oh, that's right. Our meeting's on

1:55:24Thursday." So, um, you know, our city

1:55:27clerk can get some good sleep because I

1:55:29know, uh, they were up late. So, uh,

1:55:31thank you to all the city workers and

1:55:33everybody who came out to vote.

1:55:34Obviously, it's very important to get

1:55:36out and vote in every election. Um, and

1:55:38I I thought there was a good turnout.

1:55:39So, um, I had something else, but it's

1:55:42gone. So, I'm just going to let it go.

1:55:44>> Okay.

1:55:46All right. Uh, we are at that fun part

1:55:49of the meeting, and this time I get to

1:55:52throw it to Alderwoman Kelly.

1:55:54>> I I knew what my other thing was. Thank

1:55:56you for chairing this evening. My

1:55:57husband is in DC, so I appreciate that.

1:56:01Um, and I would like to make a motion to

1:56:03adjurnn.

1:56:04>> Motion is to adjourn. Would the clerk

1:56:06call a role?

1:56:07>> Um, Alderman Tibo says yes. Uh, Alderman

1:56:11Johnson,

1:56:11>> yes.

1:56:12>> Alderman uh, Clemens,

1:56:14>> yes.

1:56:15>> And Alderman Kelly,

1:56:17>> yes. Good night, everyone.

1:56:18>> Or nothing. And we journed at 8:56 p.m.

1:56:22Thank you, everyone.

1:56:23>> Good night.

1:56:24>> Good night.

1:56:25>> Good night.

```*