2026-09-01 - Budget Review Committee Special Meeting

00:08Okay, I'd like to call the budget review

00:10committee to order September 1st, 2026.

00:13This is a special meeting of the budget

00:15review committee and the in the almatic

00:18chamber has been duly noticed in two

00:19places including the city's website in

00:22accordance with the requirements of RSA

00:2491-

00:25A22.

00:28Would the clerk please call the role?

00:32>> Alman at large Wilshshire

00:35absent. Alman at large Michael O'Brien

00:38is present.

00:40Alderwoman at large Kelly

00:42>> here.

00:44>> Alderman at large Alicia Greg

00:46>> here.

00:48>> Alderman Derek Thibo

00:49>> here.

00:51>> Alderman Paula Johnson

00:53>> present.

00:54>> Alman Tim Sennet

00:56>> here. and Richard Dow

00:58>> present.

01:00>> Also in attendance, Don Enright, CFO of

01:03Nasha, Tim Cummings, uh, and Megan

01:08Cameron from the mayor's office, and Tim

01:10Cummings from, uh, uh, administrative

01:12services.

01:13>> Okay. [clears throat]

01:14>> And Alderman Trish Cle.

01:17>> And there's a bunch.

01:18>> Oh, Mr. Raven, too. Okay.

01:21>> Over here.

01:22>> Andgan.

01:24Huh?

01:24>> Morgan, too.

01:25>> Oh, I When did you say

01:27>> [laughter]

01:28>> She's fast the whole game.

01:30>> I didn't think this meeting would be

01:31that exciting. Quiet and fast.

01:33>> Well, it just got

01:34>> And Alderman Sullivan, too.

01:37>> Yeah. So, the first item in the agenda

01:39is public comment, but we're not taking

01:41up any actions tonight. There'll be no

01:43actions coming out of this committee. Uh

01:45this committee is is is to provide um

01:51suggestions to administration on how we

01:53want to see the presentation of the 28

01:56budget. And um I'm going to go around

02:00and

02:02talk and call on the budget committee

02:04members first. I'm just going to go

02:05around in order because I'm sure

02:06everybody has something to say. So we'll

02:08do it that way to be fair and then I'll

02:10call on people that aren't on budget

02:11after that.

02:13So before we get started uh

02:18okay one of one of the things is uh and

02:21I've heard from a few people um as far

02:24as the entire board of Alban we will

02:27request whether you want the budget in

02:29the regular book format which is this

02:34which is that's the 24 budget so or uh a

02:38three- ring notebook and you'd have to

02:41do that in advance before we at the

02:42budget. Um so tonight we'll talk about

02:46changes you'd like to be considered. Uh

02:50we're taking again we're taking no

02:51action. Um we'll have the discussion

02:55with the CFO and and and others in the

02:58administration when they come back with

03:00what we are suggesting and see what we

03:02can do. Um I would ask that if somebody

03:06comes up with a suggestion, please just

03:08agree with them. Don't re you know

03:10reiterate it again. So in the essence of

03:13time.

03:16So with that being said, I'm going to

03:19start on this side. Um and the first

03:23member is Alman Kelly.

03:25>> Well, I actually wanted a point of uh

03:26clarification if we've already So you

03:28asked us to email you our our our

03:30thoughts. Do you want us to go over what

03:32we emailed or just add any additional

03:34things?

03:36Um, I have I have a email from Alderman

03:41Johnson and Alman Greg. I don't actually

03:44need and look yours up, but if but I

03:47think you should probably reiterate what

03:50you're considering.

03:52Um,

03:53>> I'm trying to find mine. I'll I'll

03:55remember them off the top of my head.

03:56Okay.

03:57>> You're the first in line on the budget

03:58on that side.

03:59>> Great. Sounds great. [laughter] I'll

04:00just I'll just wing it. Um, okay. So, in

04:03terms of uh suggestions, I know that a

04:05lot of people have covered some of these

04:07things, but getting the budget earlier

04:08than we normally do would be great. Um,

04:11one of the things that we request we

04:14requested sort of late was what you

04:16spent last year in that category. My

04:19thought was that it would be really

04:21interesting to see a running average

04:22like average over three or five years

04:25might be more beneficial than what they

04:26spent last year because sometimes we see

04:29you know there was a huge bump on that

04:30because of x y and z that one year um a

04:34contract renewal those types of things.

04:36So I was thinking maybe a running

04:37average might be more interesting. Um

04:39and I would you know obviously lean on

04:42the advice of CFO but that was one of

04:44the things that I wanted to see. Um, I

04:47do this as my own. It's But I always

04:50have the previous budgets pages and I

04:52put it in there in the back. Um,

04:56>> are you talking about the top line or

04:58you talking about every single line?

04:59>> I'll put the whole thing in there. But

05:01that's that's just more of a I like

05:03having the whole thing so I can go back

05:04and forth. Um, so I think biggest things

05:06for me were potential running average on

05:08what that line item was previous years.

05:11The only other thing which I didn't put

05:13in the email to you but I have been

05:14thinking about is I really want some

05:17clarity when we move a line item because

05:19I think sometimes things are moved to

05:21you know show that the department did X

05:23Y and Z or stayed under that you know 3%

05:26but I think that that's just a lot of

05:30we don't have to do it that way just

05:32just be clear as to what we're doing

05:34like don't move it into one person's or

05:35another or be very clear as to why

05:37you're making those choices. Um, but a

05:39lot of times line items move and that's

05:41hard for for this budget to follow as

05:43well as, you know, the public to follow

05:46or why did it move from administrative

05:48affairs to this. And I think in some of

05:50those summary pages that would be really

05:53helpful to have because I'd rather have

05:55that information before we go into the

05:57meeting and then I can ask more detailed

05:59questions. So I think those were sort of

06:02my top lines. I'm sure other people have

06:03others, but those were my top lines. Was

06:05getting it earlier, maybe a three-run

06:07average. Let's try not to move line

06:09items if we don't need to. Um I think

06:11that gets confusing and if you do, I

06:13want to know what that is and if we can

06:15get it in advance, then we have to all

06:17ask the same questions going into our

06:19budget discussions.

06:20>> Just for clarifications on the moves, do

06:23you want that just at budget season or

06:25do you want to know when it happens

06:26during the year? I think at budget

06:29season like I think I I I know that um

06:32you know Miss Karen has done a great job

06:33of making this book very you know robust

06:35and it has a lot of detail but I feel

06:37like that would be much more beneficial

06:39to me to know than like all the

06:40highlights of what you know payroll did

06:42in 2026 great but like tell me what's

06:45different from this budget to last

06:46budget and if you can outline some of

06:48that before we have our meeting we can

06:51have shorter meetings

06:53>> got them covered

06:57point of clarification ation. Um, are

07:00you speaking in terms of a narrative um,

07:05explanation? Is that what you're kind of

07:06looking for? Like in in each department

07:10um, if there's been a change in

07:12operation kind of have like a narrative,

07:15>> I think so.

07:16>> That would point it point out a an

07:18operational change.

07:20>> I think that would be helpful in that

07:21sort of front area where we talk about,

07:23you know, what you did last year. That's

07:24great. But like, do you still have the

07:27same amount of employees? Did any

07:29employees move under someone else? Did

07:30you move a line item from parks and

07:32wrecks to whatever, right? I think that

07:35those things have happened, you

07:36[clears throat] know, organically or

07:37we've gone back to ways that

07:38administrations have done different

07:39things like Tim didn't have that

07:41position. That position did not exist

07:42when I started, right? Fine. But I think

07:45if we can have some of that narrative in

07:46the book, it'll save us a lot of time.

07:49>> Okay. Thank you for the clarification.

07:51>> Yeah.

07:51>> Well said, Johnson. Thank you. Um I know

07:55I sent you a list back during budget

07:57time when you asked for it. I think I

07:59sent you an email because I I can't find

08:01it any place. And

08:03>> I got a copy. You want me to give it to

08:04you?

08:04>> Um yes, that would be great.

08:13>> Thank you.

08:14>> Yep. [clears throat]

08:20>> Okay. Um, I'll start with something a

08:23little bit fresh here. First of all, it

08:25might be on here also. Um, the school

08:28district and I pulled up um part of

08:30their budget. They list every employee,

08:33what department they're in, and their

08:35salaries with their names.

08:38Um, I think this is very important for

08:41the citizens to see um what the

08:45employees are making um because I know

08:47when we asked for it, this is what we

08:50got. And I know online on Facebook this

08:55is what was printed. This is what was

08:57sent a spreadsheet and I printed it out.

09:01Um

09:02I think the budget has to be definitely

09:05transparent

09:08and um if you don't want to add the

09:10names you put the positions

09:13with their salaries. So this way

09:15everybody knows in which department what

09:17the salaries are what the positions are.

09:20I think it's very important. Um the

09:23other

09:25thing is um I'd like to see actuals on

09:30the line items. Item one, see summaries

09:32of everything lumped together because I

09:35it's hard to understand the budget when

09:37you say that this department um x amount

09:41of um let's say um I'm trying to pull

09:45something out. Um

09:48um let's say snow plowing. Can you give

09:51the amount the overall but you don't

09:54break it down at all into that's a bad

09:57example. Um it is it is um

10:01>> you need a budget

10:01>> five made.

10:04Um but I find that everything is lumped

10:08too much. equipment, you know, break

10:11down every equipment line versus having

10:14it all lumped together because you'd

10:17like to know what type of equipment,

10:18what it was used for. Um, so I think

10:22that needs to be better rather than a

10:25summary because if you're going to be

10:26looking at the budget and you're what

10:29I'm told you have to reduce the line

10:31items, you can't go bottom line, which

10:33you can. um it's hard to do everything

10:36on a lump item because you can't break

10:39it down to see exactly what it

10:41represents and I think that's a very

10:43important issue. Um I do agree with my

10:47colleague to the right with um the 3 to

10:505year average. I think that's very

10:52important. I'm glad she brought that up.

10:55Um

10:57um back every line item should fall

10:59under I said number two, but this isn't

11:01going to help you right now. Um I think

11:03the capital reserve and enterprise fund

11:05has to be spelled out really um

11:10good. So people who don't have the

11:12experience of being on the budget

11:14understands it. Um, I think I would like

11:17to see more the wastewater and

11:20definitely the enterprise fund. Um, how

11:23it's being funded more um how much the

11:25city is contributing on the enterprise

11:27fund versus um getting it from um fees

11:32um from demolition and all that. I know

11:34there's there's a lot of questions going

11:36on about that.

11:37>> I think we used to have that in the back

11:39of the book because it's not part of the

11:40actual tax rate. So, but we can include

11:43it because it's been included in

11:45previous years. Yes. And that's very

11:46important. Um, and I, you know, and I'm

11:50glad you put that also question whether

11:52or not the budget books versus loose

11:54leaf binders, but I take a budget book

11:56over loosely binder. It's more compact.

11:59Um,

12:01and I like the way they highlighted

12:05and the objectives and the

12:06accomplishments. I think that's very

12:09useful to us because we can see what

12:11they've been doing all year round and we

12:13can kind of weigh it with um what the

12:15costs are. So, I thought that was

12:18excellent. Um

12:22I think I'll leave it at that cuz you

12:24have the rest of mine.

12:25>> Yep.

12:26>> If you need to integrated. Thank you.

12:28>> Senate.

12:29>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um,

12:32I'm not looking for too much that's

12:35novel out of the fiscal budget. Um, as

12:39presented,

12:40um, I just want what I've come to expect

12:43from it. Um, that was a big pain point

12:45for me earlier this year when we first

12:47received the budget. I actually pulled

12:50up a copy of one of the pages um, from

12:52when we first received it. And in this

12:55year's proposed budget, we had three

12:57columns of data. We had the fiscal year

13:0026 adopted. We had the fiscal year 27

13:03department proposal and the fiscal year

13:0627 mayor proposal.

13:09Previous years we'd had five columns of

13:11data. We had the previous year's

13:14adopted, the previous year's available,

13:18the previous year spend as of 331,

13:22the current year proposal and the

13:25current year mayor's proposal.

13:28that that should be to me standard um

13:31with whatever we receive. Uh I I know

13:34that there was a lot of why bandied

13:37around. Um my biggest issue with that

13:41was that we were the the explanation

13:43that we were given was that the the

13:45timeliness that we wanted the budget in

13:47caused the information to be complete.

13:50But um looking back on the previous

13:52year, we we received this complete

13:55information within the same week of

13:57April that we received it this year. So

14:00the the the timeline adds up pretty

14:04closely. And it was in the previous year

14:05that we had actually had a meeting in

14:07here and made a stink about um getting

14:10the budget earlier than we were

14:12expecting. Except I think we were

14:14expecting like May 1st or something at

14:15the time. We said no, it's got to be

14:17earlier. So, it is doable. Um, I know

14:21for fiscal 26, we had gotten a document

14:24that was um that wasn't as pretty to

14:28look at. It was mostly just um data and

14:31numbers. I I can't speak for the rest of

14:34my co the my colleagues, but I I'm fine

14:37with that. Um departmental objectives

14:40are great. Um, the visual aids are

14:42terrific, but for the purpose of this

14:45committee, what what I need in front of

14:47me is the budget. Uh my only other pain

14:51point that I I will bring up and I I

14:53recognize that this is something that's

14:55not as easy to pin down, but almost

14:59immediately when we received the budget,

15:01we received it accompanied by a memo

15:03that detailed a list of changes that

15:06would need to be um proposed and voted

15:08on before we could even vote on the

15:10budget. Uh most of them were um

15:13explained as um clerical errors. couple

15:16were um were last minute differences

15:19that needed to be accounted for. Um

15:23I I can't sit here and say that I have

15:26the best way to present that

15:27information, but a a separate

15:31all-encompassing um chart showing those

15:36is difficult for me to navigate within

15:40>> the confines of

15:42>> the entire um budget. calendar works.

15:45So, what I would prefer to see if

15:47something like that does need to come in

15:49the future

15:50>> is um you know perhaps that memo, that

15:55chart, fine, but maybe with especially

15:59for the members of the budget review

16:00committee who may still be receiving the

16:02binder. Um something akin to like golden

16:04rod pages, you know, this page will

16:08change because of this proposed

16:11amendment already tacked on to the

16:13budget. um something that we can slot

16:16into the budget book so that we have

16:19original pages as proposed by the mayor

16:21and then a golden rod page detailing how

16:25this final budget would look if we were

16:28to approve, you know, the proposed uh

16:31memo of changes that need to come almost

16:34immediately.

16:35That's really all I've got at this time.

16:38Uh those were my two real big pain

16:40points in trying to um trying to review

16:43and navigate this budget this fiscal

16:45year.

16:45>> Yeah. After I go around with everybody

16:48including the non-budget members, then

16:49I'll see if you have additional

16:52Greg.

16:53>> Um thank you. Just a couple things. So

16:55one, I think that um we have a lot of

16:58the ingredients here to do it right. And

16:59I've heard transparency and it's a good

17:02idea, but it doesn't look transparent

17:03right now. So, I think a couple things

17:05could help. Um, to flag what is new or

17:08what's jumped, like even just like an

17:10asterisk, like any line item that's new,

17:12so we know what's changed. It's easy for

17:14us to see. It's easy for us to talk

17:15about with our constituents. Um, I'd

17:18also like to see it separated what we

17:20can control um from what we cannot like

17:23contracts, debt service, that kind of

17:25stuff that comes in at a fixed um you

17:28know, or even things that the state

17:29mandates, whatever that is. I'd like to

17:31see that difference like what we cannot

17:33do anything about. Um it would be nice

17:35to have that flagged in there. Um I'd

17:38also like anytime that there's a new

17:40position that we have like an

17:42explanation of that position, not just

17:44them coming in and talking about it. I

17:46know they have to give that when they're

17:48giving it to the city. We should be able

17:49to see that in the budget. So that way

17:51maybe there's something we're missing

17:52when we're deciding whether or not to um

17:55fund this particular new position. So I

17:57think that's one of the bigger things.

17:59Um

18:01and let's see. Um I think too I think

18:06the department heads a lot of them do

18:08this but not all of them to talk about

18:10service levels if we're funding the full

18:12amount versus I think it should be

18:14expected that we have conversations if

18:16we can't fund that full amount. We heard

18:18a lot of like this is what we have to

18:20have this year period end of sentence.

18:22And while I think that's probably right

18:24for most of them it's probably not the

18:27case overall. I mean, everybody's going

18:29to come in and plead their case, but we

18:30need some real numbers so that we can

18:32talk about it so we're not slashing just

18:34the bottom line at the end of it. So,

18:37really just a little bit more

18:38transparency and that's it.

18:40>> All set.

18:41>> Mhm.

18:41>> Although,

18:42>> thank you, Mr. Chair. Um,

18:45you know, I think for people that were

18:47new to the process this year in general,

18:49I I think this year was not the best

18:50year for them to see it cuz it it the

18:53book was different

18:55um as far as columns and uh I think it

18:58was clunkier in general with all some of

19:00the mistakes, some of the things that

19:02had to be switched around. So, you know,

19:04I think in years past it's gone a little

19:06better um in general. So, I just wanted

19:09to say that. I don't want to make people

19:10think that, you know, every the last 10

19:12years has been a horrible mess because

19:13it hasn't been. Um, so I think I I heard

19:17something earlier about it being moved

19:20earlier potentially and I I think the

19:22problem with us moving it earlier to

19:24begin with is what happened this year to

19:26a certain extent. I think the the the

19:28date that Alderman Senate was talking

19:30about is the correct date. Um, but I

19:32don't think we should go even earlier

19:33than that. think, you know, as far as

19:35the the paragraphs and the objectives

19:37and the stuff they do

19:39that can be done, I would think at least

19:41started much earlier. I do a newsletter.

19:43I don't do it all on Friday. I do pieces

19:45of it leading up to Friday and whatever

19:47comes on Thursday, I put it in Friday, I

19:49send the newsletter out. So, people can

19:51be departments can be working on that as

19:53the year progresses and then it's a lot

19:55easier just to pop that in there. Um, I

19:58like Alderman Johnson said, I like to

20:00see what these departments are doing

20:02because when somebody says, "What does

20:04this department do?" I can, you know,

20:07say some facts back because obviously we

20:08don't know. When I read those things, I

20:10go, "Oh, they did that." I don't know

20:11everything they do because not all of it

20:13has to be approved through us, right?

20:15Um, so it's good to see what they do.

20:16It's good to see what uh things they

20:20they did that whether they won an award

20:22or, you know, something that we can

20:24really speak about to our constituents.

20:26Um, so I I worry if if we get too much

20:29earlier than that, um, I'd be concerned.

20:31The other piece about being earlier, I

20:32worry about, you know, we we want that

20:35column and I love the column of what we

20:37spent so far. Obviously, if we go

20:39earlier, it's going to be even less than

20:40than that, right? So, that's tricky

20:43because we, you know, that column goes

20:44all the way till basically the end of

20:46May. We get this April, we're only

20:50getting it maybe from January's data or

20:52February up to February. And I hear a

20:55lot of people say whether it's alderman

20:56or or public or whatever they go, you

20:58only spent this much and you got this

20:59much of a gap. You got to cut that. But

21:02we've learned and director Cummings can

21:03say this, some departments do things,

21:06spend money at the end of the year. So

21:09we don't have the insight to see that

21:11coming. So I would like departments to

21:13come with, hey, I know we haven't spent

21:15the money yet, but it's already

21:17earmarked for this. If they don't have

21:19anything here, Mark, then at least we

21:21know that they're coming in way under

21:22budget and maybe we should look at that

21:24for next year. Um, but I like to see

21:27what they've used because maybe they

21:28have come in way under, maybe they're

21:29coming in over and we got to maybe we

21:31have to adjust that for next year. So,

21:33um, I do like that column, but the

21:35earlier we have the budget come

21:36obviously the more we have to think

21:37about what's going to be in that gap gap

21:39time that they use. Um to Alderman

21:42Kelly's uh comment about the moving

21:45money around um I 100% agree on that. I

21:48mean, parks and wreck was a great

21:50example because they split the

21:51department parks and wreck and it seems

21:53like every year some line item is split.

21:56And I'm going to going to be um

22:01I am going to be uh I guess I don't know

22:05if the word's generous or or to say that

22:08I don't think anybody's doing anything

22:10to h you know screw with the money, move

22:13it around. I think that there are actual

22:15legitimate reasons why they're doing

22:17some of these things. Whether it makes

22:18sense to break up parks and wreck,

22:20whether it makes sense to cut this line

22:22item and put it under a totally

22:23different department, but those things

22:25happen every year. And we're always

22:27chasing that. Okay, where did that money

22:28go? Why is this zero? Oh, it's zero

22:30because it is now split over here. And

22:32so I think there needs to be more either

22:34transparency or more clarity about where

22:37that why there the split, where that

22:40money is going. Um, so I agree with that

22:42piece. Um,

22:45one thing I would like to see is when

22:48departments come in here and talk to us,

22:50and this may be a hard thing to to

22:51really line up, but each one has a

22:54really different take on their

22:56department. Some will just speak on a

22:59couple of items and go questions. Some

23:01will give a complete presentation on

23:03everything that's going on, every line

23:04item, and then we get questions. Um, I

23:07would like to see it a little bit more,

23:09I don't want to say standard, but at

23:10least a little more coming in with the

23:13same items. I would personally like more

23:15line items gone over. Some some uh

23:18departments just hit the couple of

23:19changes they had and move on and say,

23:21"Hey, what do you got?" I feel like when

23:24they're doing that, they're trying to

23:25stay off maybe some of the items they

23:27don't want us to ask. And, you know,

23:29we're a smart budget committee. Most

23:30people are are still going to find

23:31those, but it would be nice if we talked

23:33about them um as we go. Um, and again,

23:36I'm not thinking anybody's doing

23:38anything sketchy, but to, uh, Alderman

23:40Greg's point, uh, everybody's trying to

23:44get the money that they get, and they

23:45know if if they get their, you know, if

23:47someone else is getting the money, they

23:48may not get the money. So, everybody

23:50needs the money. They're all mostly good

23:52reasons for getting the money, but at

23:55the end of the day,

23:57we got to cut somewhere. We got to keep

23:58it low somewhere. So, I get why

24:00departments are try to be careful about

24:02how they approach those meetings because

24:04they don't want to give up too much and

24:06then all of a sudden they're giving up

24:07more money than department X, Y, and Z.

24:10So, I would like a a more standard or

24:13more line item approach to going through

24:14the line items a little bit more um and

24:17explaining more about the departments in

24:19general about what those line items mean

24:21because unless we're asking those

24:22questions sometimes, I mean, we're not

24:24we don't meet with those departments

24:25separately all the time. We may when we

24:27first become alderman. We may if we have

24:28a question, but we're not in there all

24:30the time going over the budget book with

24:32them. And some people may. Um, but

24:34we're, you know, not all of us have the

24:35time to do that, I'm sure. So, I would

24:37like to see that. Um,

24:42uh,

24:44see, um, the only other thing I have

24:46here, um,

24:49if if you add the jobs and the salaries,

24:52I would like to to see the names off

24:54there. Um, if it's, you know, if it's if

24:57it's department heads, I don't really

25:00care so much because everybody knows

25:01Steve Buckson's the fire chief. Tim

25:03Cummings is director of human ser, you

25:05know, HR. But I don't think we need to

25:07put, you know, hundreds of teachers

25:08names on there. We can just put teacher

25:10level whatever and what the salary is.

25:13Um, I just I just there's a point a

25:16point in the staffing where I think,

25:17okay, maybe that's you want to put my

25:19name, alderman, whatever, and we know

25:21what we get. All 9,000, I don't care.

25:23Put that on there. But as far as the the

25:26teachers and stuff, I think and firemen

25:28and policemen, I think that's going a

25:30little far. Obviously department heads,

25:32that's fine. You only get one of most of

25:33them or a couple chiefs or whatever. I

25:36think I don't care about that as much,

25:37but I do care about the uh the other the

25:40other jobs in the city. Um and I think

25:43uh that's probably it.

25:46>> Okay. And just wanted to point out this

25:48is the FY24 book and for each one of the

25:53different divisions they had the

25:56services they provide, the goals they

25:58had for the year and the highlights and

26:00accomplishments for the year.

26:02>> I love that.

26:03>> Yeah.

26:04>> So,

26:07I don't know when we stop. I just happen

26:09to have the 24 books in [laughter]

26:13I'm going to go around again. I'm going

26:15to start with it. Alman Morgan,

26:17>> thank you. Um, I'll keep it brief.

26:19>> I'm sorry. Nice.

26:21>> Alman O'Brien hasn't gone.

26:22>> Alman O'Brien [laughter]

26:23finish.

26:24>> I I am on this committee.

26:26>> Okay. All right.

26:28>> Um, I [clears throat] really don't have

26:30much. My I always looked at it my

26:33position as an alderman is supposed to

26:34be custodial.

26:37I'm supposed to leave this place and

26:41make Nashore a better place than when I

26:44came on board.

26:46And uh I think we're on the right track.

26:49I I've heard a lot of your ideas. I

26:51think of a lot of them are good except

26:53for one, and I'll get into that. But the

26:56thing is, uh in thinking as a custodian,

27:00you got to look at what we went through

27:02like in the past budgets. Uh we came off

27:05of things such as and we still have it

27:07like the spending cap, but look what

27:10we're spending in doing the roads. We

27:12just had uh uh a bill that we just voted

27:15on to put a million dollars in to

27:18complete the road projects. Why? Cuz

27:21when we had the spending cap, we spent

27:22nothing on our roads and they look like

27:24crap. You know, people with potholes and

27:28I used to get calls and everything else

27:30like that. So now we're robbing Peter in

27:33a way to pay Paul. And I hope in future

27:36budgets we may get to the point where

27:38all these lack of attention to

27:41infrastructure

27:44will be you know adjust itself and maybe

27:46the tax rate could stabilize a little

27:49bit more but when you don't pay for the

27:51place like in the Hunt building where

27:54one broken window created thousands of

27:58dollars in damage to the building.

28:01It would have been cheaper to fix the

28:03window at the time, but they didn't. So,

28:07you know, we're catching up on these

28:08things. And I think we're doing good.

28:10So, you know, it's like in the movie I

28:13saw once, you know, Jurassic Park where

28:15they said, "Nan, don't get cheap on me."

28:18But, you know, you got to keep that in

28:20mind. Thinking like a custodian,

28:23we have things that we're supposed to

28:24maintain and keep the city good. I mean,

28:27who ever thought

28:30that we needed to put security systems

28:32in our school?

28:35You know, there was an unanticipated

28:38cost factor. But now, I'm glad that we

28:41did it because, you know, in today's

28:43age, we we only deal with the reflection

28:46of the population

28:48that is presented to us, our citizens,

28:52you know, and we seen another place.

28:55people going to schools with guns,

28:57disgruntled parents because of divorce

28:59or whatever particular reason, dragging

29:01a kid out without permission and

29:03different things. At least we're trying

29:06to guarantee the safety, but these

29:07things cost money. And uh the final

29:12thing, you know, because I am really

29:14content. I hear what you're saying with

29:16the books. You know, if they're easier

29:17to read, all the better. Those are

29:19improvements and I can support that. But

29:22putting names to the employees,

29:25you know, when I was sleeping off duty

29:29in my bed and the phone rang at 1:30 at

29:33night, I went on the clock.

29:36Okay. And yeah, you could publish my

29:39salary, but every single year my salary

29:42is up from emergency calls and

29:45everything else like that. So, was it

29:48inflated? Did I do anything wrong? I'm

29:50sorry. When I went to work, I expect

29:53like you do to be compensated. Raise

29:56your hand if you're working for free

29:58here.

30:01Well, you own a business, [laughter] but

30:03I hear what you're saying. Being a

30:05business owner is tough. And I agree

30:07with you. But the thing is, we all get

30:12look for some degree of compensation.

30:14So, what do we want to do with names

30:16to go with salaries? Where's that dot

30:20going on the board? So we can have

30:23something that we can pick on somebody

30:25because their name or the job that they

30:27did. I mean, if something is outrageous,

30:30then we should call in the division of

30:33director and have them justify.

30:37Why is that person so much? Oh, well,

30:40there was a murder in town and he's our

30:43lead investigator and he put a lot of

30:46hours into that case. these unforeseen

30:49things like they say with you know with

30:52the school department who ever thought

30:54parents would do some harm or somebody

30:57would do harm to our children. So we got

30:59to anticipate that when we look at the

31:01budgets but all in all I'm pretty good.

31:04I think the city is running pretty good.

31:06I I think we've seen where an award we

31:08got again in the paper uh on one of the

31:12groups that come up with us. I mean, I

31:14think we're conscientiously trying here

31:17and pretty happy with that. So, I'll let

31:20that go. Thank you.

31:21>> Alvin Morgan,

31:23>> thank you. My apologies.

31:26>> No, that's all right. No, you bring up a

31:27very good point. A business owner is

31:29tough, darling. Yes.

31:31>> Um I I'll keep it brief. Would you like

31:33the answer in the three- ring binder now

31:35or later?

31:36>> No, later.

31:36>> Perfect. I'll give that later. Um I

31:39agree with everything my um my

31:41colleagues have said previously. A few

31:43additional things I would say and I'll

31:45start with what I was going to say last

31:48um because it follows up really

31:49beautifully with what my colleague just

31:51said. I would like to see something I

31:55didn't see last year that I've casually

31:56mentioned many times this year when I

31:58see something is broken is I say put in

32:00a maintenance request and the response I

32:03usually get is well how do we do that?

32:06How who where how? So, I would like to

32:10see um to see something of a maintenance

32:14person with some kind of a tool like

32:16Click Cix that works really well within

32:19the city where city staff or employees

32:22would be able to quickly submit

32:23something like a broken light switch, um

32:26chipped paint on the wall, a broken

32:28window, uh because it's how we take care

32:31of the little things that really show

32:32that we take pride in in our buildings,

32:35in our city, in ourselves. Um, so that

32:38would be something I'd like to see for

32:40next year, however that may look. Does

32:42it already exist? Maybe.

32:45We'll see. Um, and then I'll add the

32:47other things. Any outstanding

32:49liabilities like the COVID monies or the

32:51HUD dollars that we had to move around,

32:54that would be really great to see. um

32:56even if it's not tied within the budget

32:58necessarily, we would still like to see

33:01any outstanding liability so it's not um

33:04not a surprise for the following year

33:06earlier. Yes. Um but also what I would

33:10like to see is that when each department

33:13presents that they actually come in with

33:15their year-to-ate spend um as as close

33:18as possible. And then the last thing is

33:22a little bit counter to what everything

33:24else we just said was that in the

33:26summary section, I love all everything

33:28with the accomplishments. Um, but also

33:31what they didn't include in the budget

33:33that they would have really had wanted

33:35to um maybe it's a I don't know a new a

33:39new truck, an extra um electric charging

33:42station, but the thing that they didn't

33:44include that they really would have

33:45wanted to so that maybe that could then

33:47end up on some other capital expenditure

33:50list or projects or special projects or

33:52something like that.

33:55June Karen's first question every budget

33:58season was

33:59>> what did the mayor cut out of your

34:01budget? [laughter]

34:02>> Yeah.

34:05>> So uh it's and

34:10uh that would probably be best presented

34:12when they do their division reviews I

34:15think. So

34:17>> all right uh let's see Alman Sullivan.

34:21Thank you very much. And I uh I

34:23appreciate my colleagues and what

34:25they've said tonight. And um I think

34:27that I think what I'm hearing is that we

34:31you know we're here tonight to to give

34:33some constructive criticism uh for next

34:37year and

34:37>> or positive.

34:38>> Yes. Um, and as I look at uh the the the

34:43budget that we now have and that we

34:46deliberate over,

34:47>> it's approaching when you take operating

34:50funds, special revenue funds, etc.,

34:52etc., approaching about a half a billion

34:54dollars in

34:55>> in uh revenue and expenditures uh etc.

35:00So I think overall

35:02it's really important that and I and I I

35:05say this

35:07uh

35:09you know just we've got to be tight. You

35:12got to be really tight on those numbers.

35:14And by that I mean, you know, I had I

35:17had looked at there were about 15 to 16

35:19line items and it approached about

35:22quarter of a million dollars

35:25uh that that the budget committee was

35:26running at about six weeks where it

35:28wasn't it wasn't right. So I I I preface

35:32my comment by saying I think that those

35:34numbers need to be tight tighter.

35:38Um,

35:40overall, I know you're talking about the

35:42three- ring binder and whatever. I love

35:45the digital budget book. I love that

35:47thing. It is on my desktop. It's on my

35:51iPad all the time. I can flip through

35:53different uh departments like that. I

35:56think that is a fantastic development

35:58that um it's great. um going through

36:02some past budgets. I went back to

36:062012

36:08and some of them are just to see how

36:11different administrations

36:13put their presentations together.

36:16And uh one thing that I that I took away

36:20is that I would love to see I and and I

36:23like the accomplishments and and the

36:25mission and I and when I was on the

36:27budget committee, I would ask for this

36:28all the time, but I'd love to see the

36:30mission, the department. Maybe it's a

36:32one sheet. It is a one sheet. It's a

36:34summary.

36:36It's uh the department, the mission of

36:38the department, how many full-time

36:40employees they would have if they're

36:42fully staffed, full and part-time. I'd

36:45also love to see at the time that they

36:47published it, how many openings do they

36:49have and how long they were open. It's

36:52it was information that I always asked

36:54on the budget committee. So, I know

36:56that's that's kind of something that I

36:59always look at and

37:03I think that overall

37:06as kind of a cover page to the budget

37:09and I uh I didn't I I look and I looked

37:12every year and I know it was brought up

37:14in the public hearing but

37:16I would love to see

37:19from the fiscal year that we're coming

37:21out of how much tax revenue we needed to

37:24collect to cover the operating budget

37:26and if the budget passed as presented,

37:29how much tax revenue we would have to

37:32collect based off um all the properties

37:36and and how they're assessed. And then

37:39really one simple line is 1% on the tax

37:43rate would equal certain amount of

37:45money. I think last year was 2.8 million

37:47if I remember. So that [snorts] way we

37:50always know what the number is and going

37:52into the budget season you know exactly

37:57how much more tax revenue needs to be

38:00raised to cover the operating fund. I

38:03think that would really help the budget

38:06committee

38:08uh next year and on the go forward as

38:11far as how to piece the budget together.

38:14Um, and I'll just circle back to my my

38:18positive comment about the digital

38:19budget book. I love that thing. Two

38:21thumbs up.

38:23>> The only problem I think we have with a

38:24digital budget book is the page numbers

38:26don't line up with a printed one. And

38:29that confuses a lot of people.

38:31>> I don't even look at the page numbers.

38:33[laughter]

38:35>> Okay, you're all set. So, I appreciate

38:39>> Alderman Smith, you have any?

38:41>> Yes. Good evening. Excuse my voice. I've

38:43got problem I guess. Sorry. Um for me um

38:47so it was my first budget meeting

38:50whatever it was um

38:52interesting. Um I would appreciate

38:55having I've heard about the transparency

38:58that would be helpful. Um but also it

39:01would be great to see like the actuals.

39:03I think someone talked about year-to-

39:05date you know expenses like based on the

39:09budget that the different departments

39:11had approved. what did they actually

39:13spend? Um, and then based on what their

39:17request is, what is that percentage

39:19increase over what they've gotten that

39:21prior fiscal year? That would be very

39:24important. Um, because to me, I'm I'm

39:26always curious when I see something like

39:28a 200% increase. I'm like, why? What's

39:31going on? Because it makes me want to go

39:33back and then individually check some

39:35line items. So, I think that information

39:38would be helpful. Um, and I appreciate

39:41what um, Alderman Sullivan just said

39:44about, you know, what's the tax revenue

39:45we need to collect because when my

39:48constituents are saying, why are our

39:50taxes going up? And I'm saying, well, we

39:53need to cover city expenses. And, you

39:56know, for them, it's not adding up, and

39:58I don't believe that we're collecting

40:00probably enough to cover our expenses.

40:03So being able to articulate that and

40:05then to indicate where the funding is

40:08actually coming from, I think would help

40:10our constituents to better support the

40:13decisions that are made regarding the

40:15budget.

40:16>> So

40:17>> okay,

40:18>> other than that, thank you.

40:19>> Follow.

40:22>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, yeah, I I

40:26agree. It was my first budget and it was

40:31you have to put that in quotes

40:32interesting. Um

40:36the one of the first uh requests uh to

40:41meet a constituent was with somebody who

40:45wanted to go over the budget. So I sat

40:48for

40:51two and a half hours as this person went

40:54over the budget.

40:57line by line, page by page, and pointed

41:00me at the discrepancies uh that we

41:03eventually got Golden Rod papers for.

41:06But so my my main

41:10um

41:12hope for for the 28 budget is that we a

41:17make sure that we have one piece of data

41:19in one place that the amount of human

41:24input is reg reduced to a minimum.

41:28Uh so that and and that we make sure

41:32that the software has cross checks and

41:36um checks and balances so that we ensure

41:40that when we get our first budget, it is

41:43at least consistent

41:46and so that we can

41:50look at it and know that that um those

41:53things that need to be tied together,

41:55those things that are based on

41:56percentages, for example, are in fact

41:59accurate. Um

42:02because that I will tell you that

42:03meeting was difficult for me. Um

42:08and and secondly,

42:10I'm

42:13concerned that there are things that I

42:15think that the the city should be

42:17handling in a rotating fun phase uh

42:22fashion. the way that we handle

42:26um paving roads. [laughter]

42:29Why don't we handle um operating

42:32uh upgrading uh or maintaining our

42:36infrastructure like our fire

42:38departments, our police department and

42:42and that kind of thing. On the same way

42:46that we have um a a rotating look or a a

42:50rotating budget that says we will spend

42:53a certain amount of money on

42:57this police department or or this uh

43:00fire department

43:02um and etc. the hunt building uh the

43:06school buildings etc. There's JCCSB

43:10true and and we should have essentially

43:13an eye toward making those

43:17um what sometimes look like um

43:22extraordinary requests turn into oh well

43:26we we budget for that every year because

43:29we know essentially how much we budget

43:32every year for those expenses and

43:35they're not they're not um we don't

43:39require

43:40those departments to come come to us

43:43with their tin cup in their hand and say

43:45please can we fix the shower in the fire

43:48department on Pine you know Pine Hill.

43:53Um

43:55it should we should handle it in a more

43:58um

44:00regular fashion.

44:04Sir, hold and clean.

44:06>> Uh, thank you. Um, yeah, this budget was

44:08a little bit more chaotic due to some

44:10errors and and so on, and I I'm not

44:12pointing fingers on at anybody. Um,

44:14personally, I know you said you didn't

44:16want to hear about who wants what, but

44:19the idea, the reason I like the

44:20three-wing binder is exactly what um, my

44:23colleague from W 7 said, if there are

44:26errors, we can get a golden rod copy and

44:28I can put that page with the incorrect

44:30page and it kind of helps me. So, as I'm

44:32going through the budget, um I love the

44:35digital budget. Also, um the problem is

44:38those page numbers don't match. So, when

44:40we put out when we put out the agenda

44:42and we say page number X, it doesn't

44:45match. So, when I'm sending out my

44:46newsletter, I have to go through the

44:48digital one, figure out what page number

44:49it is because our constituents don't get

44:51a budget book. So, we do need to make

44:53that and that does matter. Um I I know

44:56it's a little bit more difficult because

44:58the way the pages fill on the um but we

45:00have to figure out how we get it in

45:02there so that it does it does match.

45:04That is important or we have when we do

45:07our agenda we tell them what the digital

45:10pages are then it's fine. Um but that

45:12that is that is really important because

45:14we're asking our our constituents and

45:16our residents and so on to to look at

45:18the online. They're not getting a hard

45:20copy of everything. Um, I agree with I'd

45:24love to see, you know, uh, how many

45:26openings do you have and and so on, but

45:30telling me that I've had three openings

45:32for, um, you know, the past four years,

45:35I'm not going to necessarily want to cut

45:37those three people because they're still

45:39trying to recruit them and how much

45:41overtime and how much everything else is

45:44um, being used because we can't get

45:46those positions filled. We did this at

45:48the VA. we would say, "Okay, well, can

45:50you create different positions that can

45:51get filled that might be able to do the

45:52job?" So, being creative, but those are

45:55questions that we can ask at the at the

45:56budget time. Um, so wanting the openings

45:59doesn't mean that I want to cut those

46:00positions. I just think it's a it's a

46:02good thing because I also want to know

46:04how much overtime was uh doing that. Um,

46:08pardon my language. I I was writing the

46:10stuff down. Um, and I'm trying to read

46:12my own writing here. Um, again, I really

46:14like the golden rod copy because it kind

46:16of stands out and tells me that this is

46:18wrong and I can put that page next to

46:20the corrected page. Um, and um, I think

46:24it was mentioned a couple times here

46:26about the actuals. I think when um, the

46:28individuals come in to um, speak to

46:31their budget, if we can get their actual

46:33year to date at that time, I think

46:36that's really important for the budget

46:38committee and for the rest of us. And

46:40I'm going to ask that every time the

46:41budget committee gets something, it goes

46:43to the full board because there are

46:45times I come to there and I see that

46:46it's on people's desk and I grab it and

46:48go make copies of it. And I'm going to

46:50have to vote at the end and I might not

46:51be able to necessarily come to a budget.

46:53So I think everything should go to the

46:54the full uh budget and not just that.

46:56But I also think not just at the

46:59department meetings, but then before we

47:01come to the public hearing when we're

47:02going to be doing vote if we can

47:04actually get the actuals at that time.

47:05So that would be a two time. one time

47:07when they're coming to speak and then

47:09the other time when we're actually going

47:10to vote on the budget or we're going to

47:11have the public hearing so the public

47:13can actually see the year to date um as

47:16well. Um uh I'm sorry I'm just really

47:19having a hard time reading my own

47:21writing here. I can't wait to get this

47:23off and it's just been put on. Um

47:26I think that's it. Um and I I appreciate

47:30the time.

47:30>> Okay. I've always told Donna and I've

47:33mentioned it to the budget committee

47:35several

47:37a lot of times over the last few years

47:39that anybody that asks questions that's

47:42on from the divisions that question goes

47:46to all the alderman and the answers go

47:47to all the alderman not just the budget

47:49committee.

47:50>> Thank you.

47:51>> I'm going to go around and follow up

47:53with Alman Kelly

47:55>> since I had to go first and I was not

47:56quite ready. I found my I found my email

47:58to you and I had a couple of um comments

48:02around after everyone has spoken. So, um

48:05we did that. So, it came up a couple of

48:08times. The staffing a lot of times it's

48:10in the back of the book. I think it

48:11should be with the department. So,

48:12you're not going to the back of the book

48:14to try to find that. So I think the

48:15department should have the overall

48:17narrative of you know how many people

48:19they have, what are their open

48:20positions. Um and then the salary should

48:23be in that part of the book so that I

48:25can easily find it and not have to go to

48:26the back. Um one of the other things as

48:29I've been hearing everyone talk is I

48:30think there's data and there's narrative

48:32and I think we need both. Um I

48:35personally don't feel that year-to- date

48:36spending is necessarily super helpful

48:38because they might know that their grant

48:41money runs out on this day and that's

48:42the day they're going to spend it. So,

48:44I'd rather know that like, hey, in my

48:46narrative, my yearto-end spade is this,

48:48but I know I'm going to use 100% of it.

48:50That's much more interesting to me um

48:52than just how much they've spent. Um,

48:55what did I put? So, in terms of

48:57narratives, we talked about any changes,

49:00staffing narrative about how many people

49:01do you have, what are your open

49:02positions? Um, I also added

49:05infrastructure narrative. So, what does

49:08your infrastructure look like? whether

49:09that's fleet or buildings. Are there any

49:12studies that are current? If we could

49:14have those linked, that would be

49:16amazing. Like we have a lot of facility

49:17studies, but if you weren't on this

49:19board when they did it, it's sitting

49:21somewhere. You've never seen it. Um so

49:23that could be interesting to have. Uh

49:25what else did I have? Oh, my favorite. I

49:28know you hear me say this every single

49:30year. Um I feel very strongly that we

49:33need to start the budget earlier. I

49:34understand it's a big undertaking. I

49:37know it it takes the department heads a

49:38lot to put it together. Uh but I kind of

49:40just did a running average of when we've

49:42done the public hearing. June is is too

49:46late. We were up against graduation. It

49:49only gives us one board of alderman

49:50meeting to really consider any changes.

49:53Um I much prefer when we had it. I'm

49:55looking at let's say 2025. It was in

49:57early May. It was also in sometime in

50:00April in one of the years in the past

50:02five years. So, I do think giving us

50:05enough time so that we can have the

50:07public hearing, so that we can have

50:08discussions, so that we don't feel as

50:10though, you know, we're up against that

50:12deadline and we can't like have

50:14conversations or ask questions. Um,

50:17also, it's impossible when you're trying

50:19to get into May and, you know, all of a

50:21sudden the end of year school stuff is

50:23happening. I know that that changed our

50:25calendar three or four times. Um, so I

50:28would like to see us done sooner. The

50:30other thing that came to me while we

50:31were talking, it would be really

50:33interesting if we got in maybe January

50:36or February, even if it's just a memo

50:39around what state legislation went

50:41through and what that might potentially

50:42do to our budget, because there's quite

50:44a few things that often come through, uh

50:46whether it's changing how much they're

50:49going to give per pupil, um or spending

50:52cap changes, anything like that. I think

50:54that would be interesting to have at the

50:56front of our minds as we go into budget

50:58season. I know you can't I'm not putting

51:01you on the spot. You can't, you know,

51:03know everything, but I do think by

51:05January we know what pieces passed and

51:08what might potentially um hit the

51:10budget.

51:12Um let me look one more thing.

51:18Oh, my favorite. I don't know how I

51:20missed this one. Other contract

51:22services. I want to I want narrative on

51:23that. Um because it is always a black

51:26box that we don't necessarily know

51:27about. I don't need you to tell me every

51:29single thing. Um, but I feel like it is

51:31a line item that changes dramatically

51:33within most departments [clears throat]

51:35and I want clarity going into our

51:38discussions around where that is headed.

51:41Did I catch everything

51:44here?

51:46Oh, just a couple comments. I appreciate

51:49the idea of the tax rate. We don't know

51:51that when we get the budget because the

51:53county budget has to come in and other

51:55things. So, we can't we can't actually

51:57know until those dollars come in. So,

51:59it's really hard for us to say, "Oh,

52:00this is going to do this to the tax rate

52:02because there's lots of other pieces

52:04that actually come into that, including

52:07what are we deciding to put to surplus."

52:09So, I appreciate that thought process.

52:12It just, as I've understood over my nine

52:16years on this committee, it's it's we

52:18can't really pinpoint that until we get

52:20all the pieces, and we don't have all

52:21the pieces when we start the budget.

52:24>> Yeah. the uh the budget change doesn't

52:28ne percentage order doesn't reflect the

52:30tax rate change and and that's a lot of

52:33people don't understand that because the

52:35tax rate is set by the state

52:37>> after a number of other things come in

52:38>> including our county budget

52:40>> uh the other thing is starting earlier

52:42the the only oh not the only but one of

52:46the issues starting earlier is that like

52:49police fire DPW all their budgets have

52:53to go through their committees

52:55internally

52:57before they h can be even given to the

53:00mayor. So,

53:02you know, I mean,

53:06it has to be an optimal time for them to

53:09start the process. And I'm not sure we

53:12know exactly what that is, but

53:16um the earlier we start, the more we

53:18open ourselves up for changes to the end

53:20of the year because things are always

53:22changing. So

53:23>> yeah,

53:24>> but we can look at that.

53:25>> Yeah, my response would be that, you

53:26know, looking at of the five last five

53:29years, like early May feels a lot less

53:32stressful than early June. Um, and we've

53:35shown that we've been able to do it in

53:36the past, so I think that that's fair.

53:38Um,

53:40I had two more. Sorry if I could. Um, I

53:45don't think this is going to be popular,

53:46but I would like it this way. Um, I

53:48think in past years, we had doubled up

53:49more departments, so we had fewer

53:51nights. There's a lot of nights we come

53:53in, fires the only thing on the thing

53:54and we're here for a half an hour. So, I

53:57I prefer I I think what they used to do

53:59at Marathon all in one day. I don't want

54:01that. Um but I I think I would rather

54:03have four long nights than 10 10 onehour

54:08nights. Um and then the last thing, this

54:10is really silly, but I did ask for it a

54:12bunch of times this year because I have

54:14gone back to the I like the book. I I I

54:17I came around, didn't I? I came around

54:19because I do a you know the pages etc.

54:22Uh but when the departments come in

54:25>> if they could have their whatever

54:26they're presenting printed for us and I

54:29would love it if it was punched but I'll

54:30punch it myself that way I can put it in

54:32the section with my book. Um that

54:34doesn't always happen. It comes later

54:36that kind of thing. So that's it.

54:38>> We do have a machine in the back that

54:39can punch multiple pages. But um um and

54:44you just brought up something else I was

54:46going to comment on, but

54:48>> what did I say before that? Doubling up.

54:50>> Yeah. Oh, doubling up. Yeah. Uh

54:54that works if everything runs smoothly.

54:56>> I know. I know.

54:57>> But the other thing I wanted to mention

54:58is years ago, because I've been through

55:0116 budgets years ago, we used to do the

55:03school department on Saturdays. Mhm.

55:06>> So

55:08for that,

55:09>> so

55:10>> it probably be

55:11>> Johnson followed.

55:12>> I remember when I first got on the

55:14board, we did the school district on a

55:16Saturday and I remembered it was snowing

55:18that Saturday, my first year in May, and

55:20I was like snow.

55:21>> Wow. Um I don't mind doubling up, but I

55:25really don't want to do four

55:26departments, maybe two,

55:28>> because of the fact there's so much to

55:30absorb in one night. And if they're

55:33really if it's a really heavy

55:34department, you know, it's it could be I

55:37don't mind shortening it, but I would

55:39just say no more than two. Um so we're

55:42not here to 12:00 to midnight. Um I

55:47talking about the um expenditures I

55:50think by wrapup we should be able to get

55:52a better idea of what the departments

55:55have because we're talking June and

55:57they're and they should be done

55:59hopefully in the May invoices that

56:01they're paying out so we can get an idea

56:03where they're at. I think that's a very

56:05important part. And I remember last year

56:07asking during the budget time where the

56:11budget is right now, what do you predict

56:13the increases of the taxes would be?

56:16Just to get an idea. I couldn't get an

56:18answer to that. I I don't think I really

56:21ever got an answer to that. Maybe very

56:23late on. But I think when you're looking

56:27at the budget, you also need to know

56:28where do we stand with a possible

56:31increase. Now, I read the memo from the

56:32mayor and how much he's going to put

56:34down towards the tax rate. $6 million.

56:38Okay. So, if we're talking $6 million we

56:41have in surplus at the end, well, maybe

56:44we should get an idea really what the

56:46surplus is as we're going through the

56:48budget by the time we're finishing up

56:50that budget wrap-up. So, we just have an

56:52idea of the surplus because I know a lot

56:57of people very upset with an 8%

56:59increase. That's not even talking about

57:02the county,

57:04okay? It really hurts on a lot of people

57:07that can't afford it because they're

57:09very fixed incomes.

57:12And so I think we need to be

57:16more,

57:19how do I put this? I have to say lately

57:22my brain doesn't work as fast as it did

57:24with everything that's gone on. But I

57:26think we need to be very transparent on

57:29where we are with everything in the

57:31budget. I'm I'm happy that all a lot of

57:34colleagues on the board here is talking

57:36about transparency.

57:38I think when we ask questions, we need

57:40to get an answer. And if we can't get an

57:42answer that night, we need to get it

57:44within a reasonable amount of time. Not

57:46waiting till the next budget meeting

57:48because by the time you get to the next

57:50budget meeting, you're wrapped up what's

57:52coming on board and you can't go back

57:54and say through the chairman even. So he

57:58disperses it. So it doesn't look like

58:00we're having a meeting or Donna

58:02disperses it out to the full board so

58:04everybody has an idea what the question

58:06was and what the answer needs to be. Um,

58:10and um, going back to the employees, the

58:13school district does it every year in

58:15their budget. If you, and I brought it

58:17up here, they have the back of the book.

58:19They have every employee in the which

58:21department, the names, and the salaries.

58:24I don't have a problem if we just do the

58:27names for the directors and in the

58:30administration and you don't and you

58:32just put the salaries for everybody else

58:34and they're just a title of what where

58:37they are in um the city budget in their

58:40department. But I think in order to have

58:42true transparency, the school district

58:44has done it all the time. And when I sat

58:46on the board on that board, nobody ever

58:49called me up and said to me, "Oh, I

58:50don't like this person's salary." And

58:52they gave me the name. Nothing ever was

58:54said,

58:56okay? It's just it's city money.

59:00The citizens pay for everything that we

59:03do. Even the grants come from taxpayers

59:06money somewhere and it that's what you

59:09call true transparency. So I appreciate

59:11the time. Thank you.

59:14>> I wonder all in Senate Sullivan.

59:18>> Yeah. Thank you. Um yeah, I don't I

59:22don't know why we want to put names out

59:23there. I just think that's I mean we

59:25like our employees, right? We want our

59:27employees to not have to worry about

59:29that. But that's that's fine. Um if the

59:32school district does it, then whatever.

59:34Um as far as like asking questions, um

59:38you know, I don't like predictions. I

59:39don't like saying, "Hey, predict this.

59:41Tell me what the tax rate is going to be

59:42next year." I don't like that because

59:44it's based on just a guess. And when

59:47people hear what somebody guesses or

59:49somebody predicts it might be, if

59:51they're running with that whether it's

59:52right, wrong, low, high, they're running

59:55with that. And if it's low and then it

59:57becomes high, they say, "Hey, you

59:58predicted this. Why is it this?" Or vice

1:00:00versa, right? Um actually, they probably

1:00:02like it the other way around. If we

1:00:04predicted high. So just always predict

1:00:05the highest tax rate you can. When it's

1:00:07lower, we'll be good. Uh I just I think

1:00:09that's a tough

1:00:11thing to do without all the data

1:00:13present. And I know as you get closer to

1:00:15it, we can kind of guess where it's

1:00:17going to be, but I just think that's

1:00:19that's tough. Um, I mean, you can look

1:00:21around. Nashville is not the only one

1:00:23that has tax problems. Everybody does.

1:00:25Every single town and city has a high

1:00:28tax rate right now. It's not indicative

1:00:29of how bad Nashville is or how good we

1:00:31are. It's it's it's where things are

1:00:33going. And I think I still think we do a

1:00:35pretty good job doing this. Even in

1:00:36among the chaos that we had last year, I

1:00:39still thought we put a I mean, I didn't

1:00:40vote for the budget. I voted no. So, but

1:00:43I thought it was pretty close. I just

1:00:44didn't like the extra ad at the end. And

1:00:47I'll get to that in a second as well.

1:00:48Um, as far as earlier, I mean, if it's a

1:00:51couple weeks earlier, I'm fine with

1:00:53that. Um, I just think the earlier we

1:00:55get, if we're starting to do this this

1:00:56thing in February, half the year is

1:00:58barely done. They don't even have the

1:01:00the receipts back from the beginning of

1:01:02the year. So, now we're trying to decide

1:01:05what the budget for next year is, and we

1:01:06haven't even gone through a half a year

1:01:07of expenses yet. So I start to get

1:01:10nervous about well now are we going to

1:01:11have a bunch of supplemental

1:01:12appropriations later because they

1:01:13couldn't predict what they may need may

1:01:16not need because you know 5 months goes

1:01:17by and things can change in the city.

1:01:19Roofs can cave in streets can go you

1:01:22know things can happen whatever the the

1:01:24the problem may may be or the challenge

1:01:26may be. Um so I I don't want to go too

1:01:29earlier just because of that and I want

1:01:31to make sure we get as much information

1:01:33as we can to be able to make the

1:01:35decision. And as as far as um

1:01:38you know the year- end stuff, um

1:01:42I like the year end. I know some people

1:01:43do and some people don't. I like it, but

1:01:46again, the departments have to come with

1:01:48what they haven't expensed yet or what's

1:01:51coming up because it's going to skew it

1:01:53if they if they haven't bought all the

1:01:55things they're going to buy, but they

1:01:56know they're going to buy them. Well,

1:01:58that doesn't tell the story unless they

1:01:59tell you that or unless you ask that

1:02:01question. Hey, you've only spent

1:02:02200,000, your budget 400,000. We're

1:02:04going to cut your budget next year. you

1:02:05know, well, we got 200,000 more stuff

1:02:06still being bought. [clears throat]

1:02:08So, that's tough. Um, I know as it gets

1:02:10closer to May, June, we can start to get

1:02:13a better handle, but and and maybe uh

1:02:16our CFO can answer this later, but um I

1:02:20don't know how quickly those receipts

1:02:21get paid out so we get that money in

1:02:23even when we get close to the year end.

1:02:25So, I just, you know, I get nervous

1:02:26about that. I just want to make sure we

1:02:28know what's still left to pay for. Um,

1:02:33the other thing I want to mention,

1:02:36probably the last thing I want to

1:02:38mention here, um, is

1:02:42the and and it runs into what Alderman

1:02:44Kelly wanted with the extra meetings put

1:02:46together. Um, I say if we only have an

1:02:49opportunity to have one board of

1:02:50alderman meeting, why don't we just have

1:02:51a special also? So, you know, I wouldn't

1:02:54necessarily say we need to cram them all

1:02:56in. Just put a special on the board. So,

1:02:58if we do need an extra meeting to go

1:03:00through it, we just have an extra

1:03:01meeting there. Um, if it's on a

1:03:03Thursday, it's on a Thursday. You know,

1:03:05wherever we can fit it at that point.

1:03:07Um, I don't like to bunch them up too

1:03:09much because I think we if we do for a

1:03:10night, we're trying to rush through some

1:03:11of them. That's how I feel. Two, if you

1:03:14do fire and you do whatever the smallest

1:03:16department is, okay, you can do that. Do

1:03:18the small one first that gets out of the

1:03:19way and then you do the fire. That's

1:03:21fine. Um, we've done that in the past

1:03:23and I think that works pretty good. Um,

1:03:27why I say that, and I think what I was

1:03:29going to say before Alderman Kelly

1:03:31brought that up, is I don't and and I'm

1:03:33gonna get hammered for this probably. I

1:03:35don't think we ask enough questions. And

1:03:37I put that on myself as well. I don't

1:03:39think I ask enough questions of the

1:03:40department. Sometimes we just, okay,

1:03:41that's good. Okay, we're done. And I

1:03:43think we should ask more questions about

1:03:45their budget and line items. And I know

1:03:46some people that do ask a lot of

1:03:48questions. So, it's not everyone. I I

1:03:50would say to people that aren't on a

1:03:52budget committee,

1:03:53come to more budget meetings. And if you

1:03:55can't, you can always send a question to

1:03:57us and we can ask it for you. Um so that

1:03:59way at least it gets out there, we can

1:04:01at least start talking about it before

1:04:02we get to the the whether it's the

1:04:04public hearing or the final couple of

1:04:06board meetings that we have to to go

1:04:08with. I would I would expect that, you

1:04:10know, for alderman that that really want

1:04:12to ask questions about the budget, come

1:04:13to the, you know, our last budget

1:04:15meeting when we do amendments and stuff

1:04:17like that because I think that's the one

1:04:18where you can't put an amendment out

1:04:21there, but you can ask us to do it for

1:04:23you. And I think that's the best time to

1:04:25go through anything we got out there.

1:04:27And I'm not saying that means then we

1:04:28rubber stamp the budget in the alder

1:04:30meeting because things come up, you

1:04:31think of things, that's fine. But I just

1:04:33think the more work we can do leading up

1:04:36to that last meeting will make it easier

1:04:37if you're going to vote for the budget

1:04:38or not going to vote for the budget. Um

1:04:40I changed my mind. I was going to vote

1:04:41for the budget. I changed my mind at the

1:04:43last meeting. So um I [clears throat]

1:04:46think we should ask more questions and I

1:04:47I get out of some of those meetings and

1:04:49I go I should have asked him a tougher

1:04:50question on that or oh I felt good about

1:04:52those questions but I should have asked

1:04:53a couple more here. So, um, and, uh,

1:04:56that's just about preparation. And like

1:04:57I said, I take responsibility. And I

1:04:59know some people say I ask a lot of, you

1:05:01know, whoever says they ask a lot of

1:05:02questions. I'm sure they do. Um, but I

1:05:05think some of us, including myself, I

1:05:07think need to need to be more uh, or

1:05:10maybe better questions. Like you said,

1:05:11Alderman Karen used to always ask that,

1:05:14what didn't you want? You know, what did

1:05:15you want that didn't get on this budget

1:05:18because the mayor cut it? Um, and I

1:05:20thought that was a great question. And I

1:05:21feel like I should have asked that

1:05:22question a lot this year because I like

1:05:23that question. So that's it. Thank you,

1:05:27>> Alen. Ryan,

1:05:29>> um [snorts] I just want to go on record

1:05:30of saying I would [clears throat] I

1:05:33would be strongly against putting names

1:05:36next to salaries. Uh there's a lot of

1:05:40social engineering that could go on when

1:05:44employees know who makes what. And

1:05:48um it's

1:05:50it's it's

1:05:52enough transparency to put um a budget

1:05:57or someone's salary or some group's

1:06:00salary and the number of people who hold

1:06:03that salary. That's enough transparency

1:06:06I think for our constituents.

1:06:09>> Okay. By the way, most salaries are

1:06:11union controlled. So, and we don't print

1:06:15what they get paid, we print their

1:06:18salaries because like fire department,

1:06:20police department, there's a lot of

1:06:21overtime and they get paid more than

1:06:24what their normal salary would be

1:06:25because they're working a heck of a lot

1:06:27more hours. Alman Kelly Cle,

1:06:30>> that's okay. I take that as a

1:06:32compliment. Thank you very [laughter]

1:06:33much. Um, it's not the first time it's

1:06:36happened. Um, first off, I I just want

1:06:39to comment if I may about the

1:06:40legislation. um January, February is

1:06:43actually when new legislation's coming

1:06:45in from the state house. And um so it's

1:06:48it's one thing for us to know what they

1:06:50did the previous year, but we don't know

1:06:51what they're coming at us for. So just

1:06:54to kind of keep that in mind, January,

1:06:55February, they're actually just getting

1:06:56the legislation and they're starting um

1:07:00they're starting to vote on it, which

1:07:01will affect your next year's

1:07:03>> That's what I was going to ask.

1:07:04>> It will affect your next year's budget

1:07:05because they're going to vote on it by

1:07:08May, May, June. And um so it could Yeah.

1:07:12>> So I think it's maybe it's a good idea

1:07:14for us to know what's coming up so that

1:07:16maybe we can petition and speak to our

1:07:19representatives. Just I just as a state

1:07:21rep I just want to let you know that um

1:07:23they start putting the the legislation

1:07:24in September to November. Um but they

1:07:27actually start working on it in January

1:07:29and it does it doesn't even do crossover

1:07:31until April. So um anyways um I just

1:07:34wanted to clarify that um when I worked

1:07:37for the uh for the federal government I

1:07:39I I did it but I also I started my

1:07:42career in fiscal and one of the things

1:07:44that we had and I don't want to put this

1:07:47for us to do this but one of the things

1:07:49that we had was every week we got um a

1:07:52department budget every single week we

1:07:55had to I worked in fiscal we had to

1:07:57create this is what they what their

1:08:00budget plan was this is what has um been

1:08:03spent year to date and this is um what

1:08:06the obligations are and this is what's

1:08:08remaining. You know, I think maybe if

1:08:11you got that once a month or something

1:08:12like that one, you know, that might kind

1:08:15of help you to see how things are

1:08:17progressing and and the obligation

1:08:19column was as important as spent

1:08:21year-to- date because even though it has

1:08:24a check hasn't been written, we know

1:08:25it's been obligated through a contract

1:08:27or something like that. So, that was

1:08:28kind of really helpful to kind of give

1:08:30us a feeling as to how things were

1:08:32going. Um, I wouldn't want us to have to

1:08:35do that once a week. That would be

1:08:36ridiculous. But, you know, once a month

1:08:38when the budget meeting is if you just

1:08:40kind of got this, you know, glance. It

1:08:43didn't give all the line items. It just

1:08:44kind of gave the department and kind of

1:08:46gave a feeling as to where they were. I

1:08:48I think that would really be helpful as

1:08:50you're going into [clears throat] the

1:08:50budget and you can kind of see how

1:08:52things are are going. Um the um I have a

1:08:56question to the chair um because um

1:08:59Alderwoman Kelly um brought up the fact

1:09:02about you know April May and so on at

1:09:04the start of the the budget but I was

1:09:06kind of being confusing about also was

1:09:08it when we started talking about it or

1:09:10when we had the public hearing I would

1:09:12always want the public hearing after all

1:09:14of the commit after all the departments

1:09:16have come in but is there a regulation

1:09:18that says we have to have the public

1:09:20hearing that we can't have the public

1:09:22hearing before any the departments come

1:09:24in because I think this last year we did

1:09:26a couple departments afterwards.

1:09:28Correct.

1:09:30>> Yes. Um

1:09:32I'm not sure there's legislation. I was

1:09:34thinking about that today. We always had

1:09:37it at the end.

1:09:38>> Yeah.

1:09:39>> Uh this year we get trapped with a

1:09:41number of of

1:09:44>> things that pushed it to where it was.

1:09:47So and none the least of which was the

1:09:50site itself. Right. Although everybody I

1:09:54heard back from that evening likes it in

1:09:57that room rather than the auditorium. So

1:10:01um but we can talk about that as we go

1:10:04along as well. Um so but my my my

1:10:08question about it was um just to

1:10:11consider um because that becomes an

1:10:14issue of when we have to schedule the

1:10:15public hearing. Um, so did we want to do

1:10:18the public hearing at the beginning,

1:10:20kind of hear what the public has to say,

1:10:21or do we want to wait for them to hear

1:10:22what all the I'm just putting that out

1:10:24for you guys to think and talk about?

1:10:26I'm not on the I'm not on the committee,

1:10:27so I just didn't know if that was um

1:10:30kind of a um um and oh my god, this is

1:10:34horrible to have to read. Um um okay.

1:10:37And as far as like the names, um I I am

1:10:41I understand that the that

1:10:44the names have been given out in the

1:10:46past through a right to know request and

1:10:48it ended up on social media and I saw

1:10:50the nasty horrible comments that people

1:10:52were making about our employees. Why is

1:10:53this employee getting paid that much?

1:10:55They're lazy. They're this or that.

1:10:57That's why I would not want to do it. I

1:10:59understand it was under right to know. I

1:11:00worked for the federal government and I

1:11:02took care of the foyer request which is

1:11:04kind of the equivalent of our right to

1:11:05know request. Um, it's the Freedom of

1:11:07Information Act. Um, when someone would

1:11:09call and say, "I want to know what that

1:11:11person got paid." We never gave the

1:11:12name. We never gave that. We gave them

1:11:14what the um, and and I know things are

1:11:17different, but we gave them what the job

1:11:19title was and what the range of pay for

1:11:21that job title was. We didn't

1:11:23necessarily give the specific salary. I

1:11:26know things are different here, but I'm

1:11:27just trying to say is that on the

1:11:28federal government, and I did look up

1:11:30FOYA as far as that's concerned, and

1:11:32that's still how they do it. They don't

1:11:34give the name to it. They give the

1:11:35position and what the the starting and

1:11:38the ending rate is for that because with

1:11:40all the steps. I'm just trying to keep

1:11:42this in mind because like I said that

1:11:43right to know spreadsheet ended up on

1:11:45Facebook and there were some horrible

1:11:47comments about our employees and I just

1:11:49I think it was you know we want to

1:11:52recruit people and I and I know for a

1:11:53fact there were some people that were

1:11:55thinking of coming here and kind of

1:11:57called and said I'm seeing these nasty

1:11:58things. Do I really want to go there? I

1:12:00don't want that to happen. And and the

1:12:02truth is I understand where the public

1:12:04was coming from, why they were angry

1:12:06with these salaries and so on because

1:12:07they're not necessarily being paid that

1:12:09and they don't understand what that job

1:12:11entitles. They just look at well this

1:12:13person I know them, they're not worth

1:12:14that and so on. But it became a a

1:12:17personal issue and and that gives me

1:12:19anxiety. Um I don't want to hurt our

1:12:21employees in in that rate. Um I will

1:12:24admit that um you know the every

1:12:27municipality I have talked to colleagues

1:12:30um throughout the entire state in

1:12:32different from from the west to the east

1:12:35to the north into the south areas within

1:12:37within here. Um and every single

1:12:40municipality is complaining about the

1:12:42high tax rate and so on. So I understand

1:12:45that that's coming from the state and I

1:12:47know no one wants to hear about it but

1:12:49really is a trickle down. our state has

1:12:51a a balanced budget. They have to

1:12:54balance their budget. So, when they cut

1:12:56revenue um and increase expenses, I know

1:12:59no one likes to talk about, you know,

1:13:00what's going on with the schools and the

1:13:02vouchers and so on, but they're adding

1:13:03to that and they're cutting revenues

1:13:05because they've cut tax and they and

1:13:07they've done this. They have to balance

1:13:09their budget. And the way they balance

1:13:10their budget is to pull the money from

1:13:12the municipalities. And that's how they

1:13:14balance their budget. I I was um on

1:13:18state Fed for a number of years and they

1:13:21they talked about wanting to and by the

1:13:23way the balance budget is a

1:13:24constitutional thing within our within

1:13:26our state. Um you know they wanted to

1:13:29try to force the municipalities and one

1:13:31of the people that was very very keen

1:13:34and we were opposition on everything. Um

1:13:37Al was very keen on that and he said to

1:13:40me the one thing he regretted was

1:13:41fighting for a balanced budget because

1:13:43he said it doesn't stop them from having

1:13:45a high budget. It just means they have

1:13:47to balance it. So for every dollar that

1:13:49goes out they have to dollar that comes

1:13:51in and our state keeps cutting revenue

1:13:53and it means that the cities the

1:13:55municipalities are the ones that have to

1:13:56pick it up and and we need to understand

1:13:59we need to understand that. And I have

1:14:01like three other things that I've

1:14:02written here and I cannot um um Oh yeah.

1:14:06One of the things I want to talk about

1:14:07is is the transparency. We keep talking

1:14:09about transparency. I think the city is

1:14:12transparent. I think it's it's hard to

1:14:14put every piece of detail into a budget

1:14:17book or every piece of detail into a

1:14:18memo and so on. Um people say that I I

1:14:21talk a lot and that's because I try to

1:14:23get as much detail and information out

1:14:25so people can't say, "Well, what are you

1:14:26hiding?" Um, but sometimes it becomes

1:14:29confusing, you know, when you give out

1:14:30too much information and so on. Um, I

1:14:33think they try to be as transparent. My

1:14:35first year here, I thought the budget

1:14:37book was unbelievably

1:14:39um, very well-versed. It was really

1:14:41thick. We had, you know, all the goals

1:14:43and everything else like that. Um, I

1:14:45love the five columns. I just want to

1:14:46kind of reiterate to that to kind of go

1:14:48back to that. But I want to say I think

1:14:50we have been transparent. Um, and I and

1:14:52I think when people skip certain line

1:14:54items, I think it's because they feel

1:14:55it's obvious. I don't think they're

1:14:56trying to hide anything. Um, so I really

1:14:59want to make that clear because I think

1:15:00the public is hearing us and saying we

1:15:02want to be more transparent. I think it

1:15:04kind of then leads to the fact that we

1:15:06haven't been transparent and maybe we

1:15:08could be better on certain things, but I

1:15:09think we are and I think we have to give

1:15:11the props. I think we have to give the

1:15:13positives and I and I love that um,

1:15:15Alderman Sullivan, you know, gave a

1:15:16positive of two thumbs up. Okay, my

1:15:19thumb's a little bit odd, [laughter] but

1:15:20two thumbs up to the digital just ignore

1:15:23the pink thumb. Yeah, two dozen two

1:15:25[laughter] thumbs up to the digital. I

1:15:27think sometimes we have to put the

1:15:28positive out there and not keep talking

1:15:29about the negative. I think we have some

1:15:31really good employees and I want to keep

1:15:32them. Um and but everybody can always do

1:15:35better. So, thank you.

1:15:37>> Okay, just uh Sullivan,

1:15:40>> thank you. I I just wanted to clarify

1:15:43um

1:15:45because I heard it a couple places. I'm

1:15:47not asking for anybody to predict the

1:15:50tax rate. What I'm asking for is how

1:15:53much tax revenue we collected in the

1:15:55prior fiscal year and as the budget is

1:15:58proposed and what in what's in front of

1:16:00us. How much tax revenue given what we

1:16:04know. I don't leave the tax rate of

1:16:07$1853

1:16:09over there in a bucket. I understand

1:16:11that we don't do that, but I I'm just

1:16:14asking if the budget were to pass as

1:16:17presented, how much tax revenue we would

1:16:20need to collect in order to cover the

1:16:23operating budget as proposed. So,

1:16:26there's that. And then one other

1:16:28comment, if I may.

1:16:29>> Uh, we talked about timing. I did dig

1:16:33into that pesky thing called the city

1:16:35charter. And it says the mayor shall

1:16:38submit the proposed budget to the board

1:16:40of aldermen at least one month before

1:16:43the start of the fiscal year of the

1:16:46budget. Now granted when that was

1:16:48written the budget was probably a

1:16:49million dollars. So I understand that.

1:16:53Um, and then also on the public hearing,

1:16:56all it says is a public hearing on the

1:16:58budget shall be held before its adoption

1:17:01by the board of alderman at such time

1:17:04and place as the board of alderman shall

1:17:06direct and then public notice. There's

1:17:08no time specified in the charter as far

1:17:11as when and whatever. So, I just wanted

1:17:13to throw that out there.

1:17:15>> That's it. Thanks for doubling back on

1:17:17me. I appreciate it.

1:17:18>> Yeah, I got a couple things. Um, one,

1:17:22when it comes to scheduling our

1:17:23meetings, the budget meetings, Donna has

1:17:28a nightmare trying to find available

1:17:30dates because of all of our regular

1:17:32committee meetings. And then she has to

1:17:35go to all the different divisions and

1:17:37find out if they can come to that night.

1:17:39So, it's not an easy thing to put that

1:17:41together. And we, this past year, we

1:17:43went through three or four iterations

1:17:45before it was final. It's very It's not

1:17:48as easy as one might think. Um the other

1:17:51thing is um a lot of a lot of people

1:17:55don't realize that a lot of our senior

1:17:56people in NSHA that work for the city

1:17:58have senior degrees,

1:18:02you know, and have extensive resumes and

1:18:06backgrounds,

1:18:07you know. So if you're trying to look at

1:18:09salaries, you know, you have to compare

1:18:12them to salaries in the in the private

1:18:14sector, which believe me are a lot

1:18:16higher.

1:18:18The other thing is um I get regular

1:18:22inputs from New Hampshire Municipal

1:18:24Association and for some unknown reason

1:18:26I get re the minutes and findings of the

1:18:30governor's council every time they have

1:18:31a meeting. Don't ask me why. It may be

1:18:34because at one point I was a Republican.

1:18:36So, but there's a lot of legislative

1:18:39items that come through on a regular

1:18:42basis that we should know about as a

1:18:44board and somebody should be reporting.

1:18:49I'm not going to put that on you,

1:18:50Alicia. Somebody You're getting off

1:18:52anyway.

1:18:53>> Yes.

1:18:54>> But, you know, somebody should be giving

1:18:56us the input. I don't know if we can

1:18:58provide inputs to the to the legislature

1:19:02and conquer. They may have prohibited

1:19:04that. I know. yet.

1:19:07>> They've prohibited a lot of people from

1:19:08giving them any kind of input, but um at

1:19:12least we should know about it and how it

1:19:13may impact our budget

1:19:16and as soon as they're considering it,

1:19:20not after they pass it, that's too late.

1:19:22That's, you know, the horses in another

1:19:24county when you left the door open. So,

1:19:27um but I don't think we get enough of

1:19:30that. I've had, you know, several times

1:19:33when I looked at the legislation, I

1:19:34said, "Oh my god, if that thing passes

1:19:36at the state, we're going to be

1:19:38seriously impacted." Now, fortunately, a

1:19:40lot of those things were shot down by

1:19:42our legislators, so that's a good thing.

1:19:46Um, can you wait for automatic comments?

1:19:49>> No, it's not an aldermatic comment.

1:19:52[laughter]

1:19:53>> What?

1:19:53>> It's not an alderman comment.

1:19:55>> All right,

1:19:57>> I'll be brief. I just wanted to say I

1:20:00appreciated the conversation around the

1:20:02the state and when the budget happens. I

1:20:04understood what I think are important

1:20:06just like you were saying. I thought it

1:20:08was really interesting to think about

1:20:10having the public hearing first

1:20:13if we're not bound by it. It's really

1:20:14interesting. We hear from the public

1:20:16right at the onset and then we can carry

1:20:18their questions forward.

1:20:20>> We can discuss that as we go. Yep. Al

1:20:24T-Bone.

1:20:25>> Yeah. Thanks. I mean I I I think that's

1:20:27an interesting idea. The reason why I

1:20:29would not do that or I don't like that

1:20:30is because

1:20:32they're getting the book and then right

1:20:33away they're coming up like they haven't

1:20:35heard the like some of the details on it

1:20:37with the departments. And I think if

1:20:39they hear that they might have more

1:20:41questions. If they're doing it right at

1:20:43the front, they haven't heard a lot of

1:20:45the speaking points to it. So I think

1:20:48for them it it might be more

1:20:49advantageous for them to do it at the

1:20:51end um because then they can say

1:20:53whatever they want about everything

1:20:55we've talked about for the last two

1:20:56months.

1:20:58Alman Clean.

1:20:59>> Uh, thank you. Um, the reason I brought

1:21:01it up was I I don't necessarily think

1:21:04that they do speak to what what's been

1:21:06happening at the meetings. I think they

1:21:07speak to the book or what they see in

1:21:09the book and so on. Um, there's also

1:21:12another chance when we um we start to

1:21:15vote on it and every time you have a

1:21:17meeting um the public has a right for

1:21:19public comment both prior and post um

1:21:22those presentations. So, I I do think it

1:21:24would be good because I do think it's

1:21:26it's insightful for us to hear from the

1:21:28public what they're looking at the book

1:21:30vanilla whether they know any of the

1:21:32detail behind it and so on. I think it's

1:21:33it's a good thing for them to to get

1:21:35their information out. Um but if I may

1:21:37also speak to the um the comments about

1:21:40the about the legislation. Um it the

1:21:43legislation comes through and by

1:21:45December they know what the the the

1:21:47legislation is. And to your to your

1:21:50point of yes, we can all as citizens, we

1:21:53have the right to go up and speak in

1:21:56front of them. We have the right they

1:21:58have online comments and I do it all the

1:22:00time. I'm getting online and I'm saying

1:22:03I give my opinion, I give my, you know,

1:22:06my position and so on. Um whether I'm

1:22:08for it, whether I'm against it, the

1:22:10truth is that I I can't say that that

1:22:13does sway those that are voting on it,

1:22:16but it goes into the public record. So

1:22:18they know that if a hundred people said

1:22:21we don't like this and they put it

1:22:23forward that becomes part of the public

1:22:24record. So I still think it's important

1:22:27and incumbent and all citizens not just

1:22:29this board anybody who's in the public

1:22:31anybody who's in the public to to speak

1:22:33out or speak for whatever you whatever

1:22:36you feel and I think that's very very

1:22:38important.

1:22:39>> Okay.

1:22:42Okay. I'm trying to wrap it up but go

1:22:44ahead. I'm just very quick because I'm I

1:22:48can't remember 100% correctly, but I

1:22:50thought when I was on the board the last

1:22:52time that Strea and his office had a

1:22:55legislative liaison that went up to

1:22:57conquered and knew what was going on

1:22:58with the bills and then they could bring

1:23:00it back to us to let us know what was

1:23:02happening in conquered. That should be

1:23:04happening. Um and it's and even if

1:23:08they're not up there, they should be

1:23:09communicating the mayor's office with

1:23:11what's going on the proposed bills. So

1:23:13then we know as budget season's coming

1:23:16what's up, what's in the committees for

1:23:19education, for police, fire,

1:23:21transportation, whatever it's going to

1:23:23be in those committees because I used to

1:23:24sit on federal and state and veterans

1:23:26affair. I don't think Al was on my

1:23:28committee at that point.

1:23:30>> I don't he might have been.

1:23:31>> Oh yeah.

1:23:32>> But um it was a very interesting

1:23:34committee. But we should be that's what

1:23:36should be happening because most of us

1:23:39can't get up to conquer because I mean I

1:23:41work every day and [snorts] so if it

1:23:43comes from the mayor's office and it's

1:23:45just phone calls to find out what's

1:23:47going on up in conquered they can find

1:23:49it out from the Democratic party they

1:23:51can find out from the Republican party

1:23:52what bills are coming up into each

1:23:54committee and that's really what we need

1:23:57as we're getting closer to budget time.

1:24:00>> Yep. I think the person that used to be

1:24:02that was Lanigan and I think he re

1:24:04writes for the union leader now and yeah

1:24:06every Saturday they go through exactly

1:24:08what's going on in the legislature.

1:24:09Alderman Greg

1:24:11>> um it's really Thank you. It's really

1:24:13easy to get online and kind of see what

1:24:15bills are in committees and stuff. So if

1:24:16anybody needs help um looking that up

1:24:19and how to track and all that kind of

1:24:20stuff, I'm happy to talk to anybody

1:24:22because it sounds like we don't have a

1:24:23liaison right now. So I think it's part

1:24:25of our due diligence to kind of look at

1:24:27that and keep up with that. Um and it's

1:24:30one of us can't talk to everybody unless

1:24:33it's in a meeting about um you know what

1:24:35we're seeing on there. So, um but I'm

1:24:38happy to help any any individual who

1:24:41maybe is struggling with how to kind of

1:24:42look at what bills are coming and what's

1:24:44happening with the bills and all that.

1:24:46So, I think we can do that.

1:24:47>> I do know that the uh mayor and division

1:24:50directors have testified and conquered

1:24:52repeatedly uh chief of police, the fire

1:24:55chief.

1:24:56>> Yep. Um, it's just I don't think the

1:24:58feedback comes back here,

1:25:00>> right? But there's ways to watch it. So,

1:25:02I'm happy to show people how they can

1:25:04watch that.

1:25:05>> Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. You can speak

1:25:06to anybody about any legislation going

1:25:08on up at conquered. You can't speak

1:25:10about legislation in the chamber. So, I

1:25:12just want to be clear of that. You can

1:25:13talk to anybody about anything that's

1:25:14not legislation. So, I just want to make

1:25:17sure people knew that.

1:25:18>> So, the next item on the agenda is

1:25:20public comment. Is there anyone that

1:25:21wishes to present in public comment?

1:25:28My name is Bill Faro. My home is number

1:25:3035 Indian Rock Road. I'm going to read

1:25:34this first. My background and experience

1:25:36in training in developing and man

1:25:39managing budgets makes me very

1:25:41inquisitive. That's why I choose to

1:25:43speak occasionally.

1:25:45There were a bunch of things that were

1:25:47talked about tonight. I just want to

1:25:48give a comment on a couple of them. Um

1:25:49there was talk about books versus

1:25:51binders. Please get spreadsheets. You

1:25:54shouldn't be looking at paper. This is

1:25:552026. With a spreadsheet, you can filter

1:25:58stuff on and off. You can combine stuff.

1:26:00You can hide stuff. The mayor often

1:26:02times talks about drivers in the budget.

1:26:05You want to be able to combine that and

1:26:07see that. You can't do that when you're

1:26:08flipping pieces of paper. The tool that

1:26:10the city uses in developing a budget can

1:26:14extract spreadsheets very easily. That's

1:26:16what you should be looking at.

1:26:18There was talk about reporting uh

1:26:22average actuals for some number of

1:26:24years. Please don't do that. What you

1:26:27want to see is you want to see trends,

1:26:29not averages. It's very common for a

1:26:32year to be high or low. You don't want

1:26:36to develop an average based on that. You

1:26:38want to see what the trend is. Is it

1:26:40trending up? Is it trending down? Is

1:26:43there no trend at all? Think about uh

1:26:45wages for a minute. You don't want to

1:26:48see averages of wages. That means

1:26:49nothing. You want to report trends or

1:26:54report three years worth of actuals and

1:26:56let somebody figure out what the trend

1:26:58is. If you want to report an average,

1:26:59too. But that you should not be

1:27:01budgeting based on historical averages.

1:27:05Um there was talk about reporting

1:27:07salaries. That's probably a bad idea. Um

1:27:10it's just going to anger people. And

1:27:14why would why didn't you just see that?

1:27:16You're developing a budget. You're not

1:27:17going to change that. You can't you're

1:27:19not going to change the salaries. You

1:27:20can't ask to change the salaries. You

1:27:23should be focusing on the numbers, the

1:27:25the budget numbers, not the salaries.

1:27:27You can't change the salaries.

1:27:30Um

1:27:32a couple other things that were not

1:27:33talked about.

1:27:35There's no math at all in those books.

1:27:38There's no basis. There's no rationale

1:27:40for any of the numbers.

1:27:42The developers should be reporting their

1:27:44basis, their math for every line.

1:27:49Maybe they make some assumptions. That's

1:27:50fine. But there's always some math

1:27:52behind it. You should be able to see

1:27:54that

1:28:00there was some discussion about

1:28:01questions. I sat through a few of those

1:28:03meetings and I watched a bunch of them

1:28:05and I spoke at a couple of them. you

1:28:06don't ask questions. And when you do ask

1:28:09questions, they're more about policy

1:28:11than about the numbers. If if you're not

1:28:14going to ask questions about specific

1:28:16numbers, it doesn't make a lot of sense

1:28:18to have somebody come in and present

1:28:20their budget if if you're just going to

1:28:21ask them about policy, not the numbers.

1:28:25I look at this thing, I have no

1:28:26experience in developing municipal

1:28:28budgets, but I look at this questions

1:28:30come flying off the page at me. You

1:28:32should be able to ask questions about

1:28:34the numbers.

1:28:37That's enough. Thank you.

1:28:39>> Thank you.

1:28:41>> All right. Uh remarks by alderman

1:28:45>> Sullivan.

1:28:46>> This is a really good exercise tonight.

1:28:47I appreciate you uh holding the meeting.

1:28:49I think it's uh it's great to look back

1:28:51and ask for feedback and I really

1:28:53appreciate it. I think that's

1:28:55>> good on you, Mr. Chairman. I think at

1:28:57the beginning of the year there was so

1:28:58much confusion over over

1:29:01the budget and and the presentation and

1:29:04the book and everything else that I

1:29:05think we needed to reboot and that's why

1:29:08this meeting all senate.

1:29:10>> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um I would have

1:29:13liked to have included this at the end

1:29:15of the discussion but um I was actually

1:29:18finishing up the exercise while

1:29:20discussion was going on here. I just I

1:29:22was curious about the budget delivery

1:29:23date. this, you know, was an issue to

1:29:26some people. Should we get it later?

1:29:27Should we get it earlier? Uh, I went

1:29:29back from we started fiscal 27 and went

1:29:32to fiscal 17.

1:29:35Um, not to um go on averages um

1:29:40necessarily, but the average delivery

1:29:42date is midappril. Um, looking back the

1:29:46last couple years, we've got it

1:29:47midappril. Um, we had a run of miday,

1:29:51which I would like to never see again.

1:29:54Um, we actually had a one, two, three,

1:29:57three-year run where we actually got it

1:29:59mid-March

1:30:01>> and then late April and miday again. Um,

1:30:07Excel tells me that the average is April

1:30:0917th. Um, if we stuck to an average on

1:30:12that delivery date, I'm happy with that.

1:30:15Um, I just thought that would be an

1:30:17interesting token to uh, note in

1:30:19people's heads. That was the date that

1:30:21we received the

1:30:22>> average

1:30:23>> over 11 years.

1:30:24>> Okay. [snorts] Kelly.

1:30:26>> Ah, thank you for doing that. That's

1:30:28something I had on my list. Um, I just

1:30:31didn't get enough at opportunity to

1:30:34focus on the positive. I think this

1:30:36meeting was very positive. Having this

1:30:38conversation, [clears throat] we all

1:30:38agreed that there were some bumps during

1:30:40this budget um season, but I think that

1:30:44having everyone in the room and having

1:30:46this discussion was really important. I

1:30:48wanted to give uh give a shout out

1:30:51because I loved the spreadsheet that we

1:30:53used this year at the end where we

1:30:56tracked every single person's motions

1:30:58and whether it passed or failed and I

1:31:00thought that was a really nice clean way

1:31:03to go into our wrap-ups and also to then

1:31:05speak to it um in in the budget um to

1:31:09the to the full board. So, I appreciated

1:31:11that addition this year and I know we're

1:31:13all going to do even better this year.

1:31:16Thank all Morgan.

1:31:18>> Thank you. I um appreciate the extra

1:31:20minute to pull up the date and time. So

1:31:24um I had asked for uh I had asked

1:31:26president for uh decorum um after going

1:31:30back and forth with uh New Hampshire

1:31:32Municipal Authority November 7th at 700

1:31:36p.m. um they have proposed a training.

1:31:39It wouldn't necessarily be on decorum

1:31:41specifically, but on I don't have my

1:31:45glasses on. Conflicts of interest and

1:31:47ethics for local officials. Um, so that

1:31:51will be coming down the road.

1:31:54>> Okay. Clean.

1:31:56>> Uh, yes. I I I do want to thank you, Mr.

1:31:59Chairman, for having this meeting. I

1:32:00think it was extremely informative and I

1:32:03think all of us brought our own history

1:32:05here. you know, our experience of having

1:32:07been up in the state house or having

1:32:08been on other committees and and how

1:32:11different places do it. It doesn't mean

1:32:12necessarily we can adopt that to it, but

1:32:14I'd also like to thank um Miss Enright

1:32:17for um all that she did this past year.

1:32:19I know there were errors and you would

1:32:21run around and try to get all that

1:32:22information to everybody. And I know it

1:32:24was difficult. Um I think this was your

1:32:26first year of the full budget on your

1:32:28own. So, I I appreciate everything you

1:32:31had to do. And I also appreciate you the

1:32:34spreadsheet that you you did and

1:32:35everything with all that. Um, so we

1:32:37could kind of see how things are going.

1:32:39We had kind of had that running number.

1:32:41Um, and I and I do appreciate it. So,

1:32:42and I know this year you're open to some

1:32:45of our comments and and uh, thank you.

1:32:47Thank you for what you do.

1:32:48>> You're welcome.

1:32:49>> Okay. So, I've got like five pages of

1:32:51notes. I'm sure Miss Enight [laughter]

1:32:53has lots of notes and uh what I'm going

1:32:55to ask is CFO Enright and administration

1:32:59to get back on the things that were

1:33:01suggested tonight with their feedback

1:33:02back to us and then we can then discuss

1:33:05them at another meeting and come up with

1:33:08some final

1:33:10roads to a new budget process.

1:33:13All right,

1:33:16Senate

1:33:17>> motion to adjurnn.

1:33:19>> Motion is to adjurnn. All in favor

1:33:20signify by saying I. I

1:33:22>> opposed. Motion carries. We'rejourned at

1:33:26>> 8:33. I don't count.

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