2026-10-06 - Budget Review Committee Special Meeting

06:52Oh, remember the three minutes. Okay,

06:55TV. Hope TV is ready. Going to call the

06:58budget review committee to order. It's

07:00October 6, 2026.

07:03It's 8:55 p.m. We're in the aldermatic

07:05chamber. The meeting's been duly noticed

07:08in two places, including the city's

07:10website, in accordance with the

07:11requirements of RSA 91-822.

07:17And would the clerk please call the

07:18role?

07:20Alman at large, Michael O'Brien is

07:22present. Alderman at large Kelly,

07:25>> right here.

07:27>> Alderman at large, Alicia Greg,

07:29>> here.

07:31>> Alman Derek Tibo

07:33>> here. Alderman Paula Johnson

07:37>> present.

07:38>> Alderman Tim Sennet absent.

07:42Alderman Richard Dow

07:44>> present. Uh

07:45>> also in presence is Alderman Rean.

07:49>> Okay. Uh Alman uh Senate had a

07:54medical issue.

07:59All right.

08:00And we have direct the photo online.

08:05>> Yeah.

08:06>> Steve, Jeff Laflur, Ryan Conit, Dan

08:09Hudson,

08:11>> and Tim Cummings.

08:13>> Yeah.

08:19>> I think uh

08:22>> Maddie Greg is still on.

08:25>> No. Yes, he is.

08:26>> Yes, he is.

08:29Okay. First item on the agenda.

08:33>> Excuse me.

08:34>> He just said he's here.

08:37>> You heard his name.

08:38>> Oh.

08:41Um,

08:43the first item on the agenda is public

08:46comment. Is there anyone that has any

08:48public comment on items being addressed

08:50in this meeting?

08:52Seeing none

08:55>> communication.

08:59[clears throat]

08:59>> We have a communication from Lisa photo,

09:01director of public works. reason

09:04referral to the board of alderman of

09:06R-25-059

09:09and R-25-060

09:15and R25-

09:18um 061

09:21and I'll just read them out without the

09:23R25s 063 066

09:27072 and 073

09:29>> there being no objection I'll accept the

09:31communication place them on file Board

09:33of Public Works recommended all of those

09:35resolutions. Unfinished business.

09:37>> There is none.

09:38>> New business resolutions

09:40>> before us tonight is R26059

09:43authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

09:45to borrow amount not to exceed $3

09:47million.

09:48>> Oh, excuse me. We're going to go out of

09:50order.

09:52Um, let's do uh 72 and 73 first so we

09:56can let the consultants go unless

09:58there's an objection.

10:00>> Okay.

10:01>> Okay.

10:02before us tonight. Uh 26072

10:06authorizing the mayor and city treasur

10:08to issue bonds not to receive $43

10:12million.

10:13>> 43500

10:14>> yeah $43,500

10:17I stand corrected for the design

10:19construction and equipping equipping of

10:22division of public works garage and

10:24fleet maintenance facility. Mr.

10:27Chairman, I make the motion to recommend

10:30final passage. Okay. The amount is

10:3243,500,000

10:34and the motion by Alden O'Brien is to

10:37recommend to the full board final

10:39passage of R26072.

10:43Discussion. Alman Tibo.

10:46>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, one thing I

10:49wanted to correct that was in public

10:50comment earlier is that someone said

10:52that every single one of the bonds

10:54tonight would pass no problem because

10:56most of the board endorsed it. Six, most

10:58of these things are six or seven.

11:00alderman endorsing it. So, that's just

11:02not true. Um, that's leaves nine, eight

11:04or nine left to to endorse. I mean, to

11:08to to say yes. So, you never know.

11:10People change their minds, too. I just

11:11don't want people to think that all

11:12these are just rubber stamps and um we

11:14think about them. Um, for this

11:16particular one, I mean, the ultimate

11:19cost of this going to 53 million, that's

11:21a lot of money. Um, imagine what we

11:23could do for the homeless with just a

11:25few of that those millions, right? Um,

11:29but we don't have that project on here,

11:30right? Or or I know we have the resource

11:34center coming maybe, but it's a lot of

11:36money here. We passed up a resource

11:37center for just a few million dollars.

11:40So, this is a lot of money. People are

11:41going to say, "Oh, you can you can uh

11:45store vehicles. You can keep them nice

11:47and warm and toasty with radiant

11:49heating, but where the about the people

11:52that are out in the cold?" So, um,

11:56I mean, it's all great. I mean, half

11:58these numbers that I'm looking at, I

12:00mean, they're guesses to to a certain

12:02extent. They're all guesses. I mean, we

12:04say it when we're any of these projects

12:06that that when we ask the question,

12:08well, where are you getting that number?

12:09And they're like, well, you know, we're

12:10looking at this year and we're adding

12:13some inflation to it and, you know, I

12:16guess that's what it's going to be. And

12:17by the way, if you do this in 10 years,

12:19it's going to be 300 million to do.

12:21Okay. Well, I get that. Of course,

12:22everything goes up, right? So, I get

12:24that every time you pass off something a

12:26year, it's going to go up. I understand

12:28that. Um, but some of these numbers are

12:31you don't have finite numbers because we

12:32haven't got the bid out yet and people

12:35haven't bid on it. So, usually we try to

12:37go above and beyond because we want to

12:40make sure we don't go over and we want

12:42to make sure we have some surplus. I get

12:44that as well. So, I just think it's a

12:46lot of money and I think people are

12:48going to question it out there. Um, I I

12:52believe it's in the bonding plan as far

12:53as we're not going to go out and just

12:56sell $53 million of bonds tomorrow. It's

13:00going to be planned over the time of

13:02hopefully to make it 25 million per year

13:04because that's what's in our our our

13:06average 25 million per year. Um, but I

13:10mean that's where I'm coming at it from.

13:11I'm not saying I'm not voting for it,

13:13but um as I originally endorsed it as

13:15well, but when I come to start thinking

13:17about the money we're spending on this,

13:19it's it's a lot for for this. And we

13:22don't we can guess on how much it saves

13:25in keeping a car out of the cold, but

13:29how much does it really save? And I know

13:31people will come up with things, I read

13:32this in this magazine, I read that in

13:34this magazine, yada yada, whatever. But

13:37it's, you know, it's hard to quantify

13:39that in actual dollars, I think. So,

13:42we'll see if I actually uh endorse or or

13:44I vote on it or not. We'll see. Two

13:47things. One, uh the final vote will be

13:50at the board of alderman. It will need

13:5110 votes.

13:53And the other is that we did have a

13:55presentation as we were going along

13:57about from qualified sources about the

14:01maintenance of equipment and cold starts

14:03versus stored vehicles inside. And the

14:06money we save in in saving vehicles and

14:10keeping them longer in maintenance is

14:13probably going to pay most of the debt

14:15service. So, um

14:17>> I've seen them all and uh I know but we

14:20still voting it for it tonight, not just

14:22at the board of alderman tonight.

14:25>> Any other questions? Alman Johnson,

14:27>> thank you very much. If I may ask

14:29Director Cummings a question.

14:32>> Director Cummings,

14:35go ahead.

14:36Um, you said that this project was going

14:40to be right now you're asking us to bond

14:4243,500,000

14:45and then we were adding in the 3.1

14:48million.

14:49That comes to about 46,683,200.

14:55But you're saying the whole project is

14:56probably going to be about $53 million.

14:59Where's the difference?

15:03>> Rick Cummings.

15:06Uh thank you. There was a prior um uh

15:10authoration of about $5 million on this

15:12on this project.

15:14>> My continue for what

15:16>> design that was.

15:18>> We approved money for the design. So

15:20>> any additional questions?

15:22>> Yeah. I may I just say something here

15:25because you know you got all this in

15:26here and you don't see it. I just want

15:28to make a comment please.

15:30>> I'm not thrilled about this project. Um,

15:33we're told that this building will last

15:3550 years. We have to maintain it. We're

15:38going to be bringing a lot of vehicles

15:39in. I spoke to a lot of mechanics. Um,

15:43I'm not thrilled with the garage. I

15:45think there's other ways you can house

15:46the vehicles without putting that big

15:48garage in and keep them out from the

15:50element. A matter of fact, one of my

15:52constituents was saying that to me today

15:54when I picked up my senior ticket for

15:57the outing. Um, that was that was today.

16:00Yesterday, yesterday I think it was. um

16:02he was bringing bags of bagels for

16:04everybody. Um but you know, I have

16:07discussions with a lot of people. I

16:09think this is a very expensive project.

16:12I think there's other projects out there

16:14that we need to do. I'm concerned with

16:17when you look at the bond the way it is

16:20now. Over the years, it was never taken

16:22care of. There's ventilation pro. I I

16:24agree that there's a lot of ventilation

16:26problems in there. Um I went through it

16:29and one time I walked out of there, I

16:31couldn't breathe. Um, but my concern is

16:35we never maintain and this is a lot of

16:38money to go in there, build the

16:40building, and it's going to house

16:42everybody because I know the original

16:44building, the administration building

16:46was supposed to house everybody, but it

16:48there's not enough room in there. And I

16:50just want to make sure and about this

16:54project here because we don't do the

16:56best at times maintaining things. And um

17:00and I'm also have a concern about the

17:03traffic going up West Holler Street

17:05because we're going to be putting more

17:06cars going from Riverside up to the

17:09landfill. And people say, "Well, might

17:11only be another 50, you know, here and

17:13there." But that's a lot because we have

17:15so much congestion in one area that I

17:17was told I have to find the money to fix

17:20that one area that uh I'm concerned

17:22about this. So, I'm not going to be

17:24supporting it tonight, either one of

17:27these resolutions. Thank you.

17:31>> Uh, Director Cummings.

17:32>> Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Tim

17:33Cummings, director of administrative

17:34services. Uh, just to talk a little bit

17:36about the maintenance uh issue since it

17:39was just uh brought up. I completely

17:41agree. I think all of you know at this

17:43point I've talked about the fact that we

17:46need to maintain our assets. We need to

17:49maximize the life of those assets. I've

17:52presented to you and I've I've committed

17:54to you that incrementally through our

17:57operational budget we are going to do

17:59that and uh I submit to you we've been

18:02working towards that and case in point

18:04we've seen the library uh come on into

18:07the facilities group um and um we are

18:11expanding our

18:14um facilities group uh in the budget we

18:17just approved a facilities manager that

18:19we'll be hiring in January and director

18:22photo and I have been ongoing

18:23conversations to make sure that we are

18:26maintaining and and being the best

18:28stewards of our capital assets as as

18:31much as possible. And so making sure we

18:33have that operational plan is is is uh

18:36fundamental. I submit to you that that

18:39that commitment is not going to waver

18:41because we we recognize how how truly

18:44important it is and we are working

18:45within the

18:48uh constrained resources that we have to

18:50prioritize it but it's it is a big

18:52priority uh for us Jim and I heard some

18:56comments also just a moment ago about

18:58the uh cost estimates and so I just want

19:01to take a a moment and and and reassure

19:05uh this body that the numbers that

19:07you're seeing before you for the uh uh

19:10hard construction costs have been

19:12vetted. Um it's been an ongoing

19:15conversation uh amongst the design and

19:18consulting team um over over the last

19:21year or so. Um and certainly the u

19:25numbers before you now have been studied

19:27um diligently over the last few weeks.

19:30If you'd like, I could have uh the

19:32owner's project manager, Joe Sullivan,

19:34who's here this evening, uh come up and

19:36speak in a little bit more detail about

19:37how we arrived at that $43 million

19:40figure if you'd like.

19:41>> Anybody want that?

19:43>> No.

19:44>> Okay. Thank you,

19:46>> Alman Greg.

19:48>> Thank you. So, I think that this

19:50obviously this is this amount of money

19:52is always hard to swallow, but I do

19:55think that when we are being um diligent

19:58with our duties here and how we invest

20:01the tax dollars, which we're all

20:02taxpayers to, it's what what does that

20:05return look like? And I do think that

20:07this pro project is a strategic project

20:10for the city because it looks forward.

20:12It's not just trying to fill in a gap or

20:15whatever. For those who have gone to the

20:17streets department, you know that doors

20:19aren't even like lining up anymore. That

20:21building is literally crumbling.

20:22Something has to happen. So rather than

20:25just build something that will be

20:26another temporary fix, which that was

20:28supposed to be, this invests in the

20:31future of our city. As far as whether or

20:34not, you know, we're taking into account

20:37um you know, money for the homeless or

20:39any other project in the city. This is

20:42also a very big important project

20:45because there isn't anything in this

20:47city that that touches anyone that DPW

20:51doesn't have a hand in every single day.

20:53And you know, we're talking about

20:55efficiencies and getting our first

20:57responders when we have snow days. Um,

20:59having that all at one facility, which

21:02we've talked about. We could rehash all

21:04of this, but I think that yes, this is a

21:06big cost, but this is a cost that's

21:09going to save in a lot of ways. It's

21:11also looking forward as the city builds,

21:14as we continue to grow, as we do have

21:16more housing, we're going to need these

21:18services much more um organized, and

21:22this looks forward to that. I think DPW

21:24has done an amazing job at lining out

21:26this project, figuring out where they

21:28could cut, where they could not cut, and

21:30how to make this um the best that it can

21:32be for the city. So, I do think it's a

21:35lot of money, but it's the type of

21:37investment that we should be looking at

21:39for the city.

21:41>> Debo.

21:42>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

21:42>> I think we've all tooured the facility.

21:44We know it's terrible. Um, I don't think

21:46that's in doubt at all. Um, but like I

21:49said, people dying out on the streets is

21:52just as important as putting uh, you

21:54know, trucks in a in a in a garage. And

21:57I've been for this the whole time, so I

21:59don't want to I'm not necessarily

22:01changing my view on it, but I don't want

22:04to minimize that either. We turned down

22:06a resource center. People in this

22:08literally in this horseshoe right now

22:10turned down for a few million dollars.

22:12So including myself. So I get it. Um we

22:16need this. Uh we absolutely need this.

22:18And my my other point is really about

22:20the maintenance. Well, there's two

22:21things. So the maintenance and the

22:24savings. I think the hard costs may be a

22:28real number, but the savings isn't like

22:31we don't really know. I mean, there's a

22:3325 million to 40 million. That's a big

22:35gap um in savings um over 50 years. So,

22:39that's that's a big gap. Um you know, 40

22:42would be great. Still not even a million

22:44a year. So, um so I'm that's concerning

22:47because I that you're never going to

22:49know exactly until the savings starts

22:51coming in on that. Um, maintenance-wise,

22:54that's great that we're putting forward

22:56thinking on maintaining our buildings

22:58and infrastructures in the city. What

23:01about when you get a new mayor in here?

23:03What about when you get new alderman and

23:05new heads of things? That doesn't mean

23:08they're not going to

23:10pay attention to maintenance. So, just

23:12because we're thinking about it doesn't

23:14mean the next administration or

23:16administrations down the road are going

23:17to have the same feelings as us about

23:19maintenance. So, how do we guarantee

23:21that things will be maintained or this

23:24building will be maintained? We don't we

23:26don't have that. Obviously, this one

23:27wasn't. So, someone left it to just rot

23:29cuz it is in bad shape. So, I think, you

23:32know, if I say yes to this tonight, it's

23:35going to be with a caveat that I'm still

23:37going to be thinking about this leading

23:38up to the board me the the board of

23:39alderman meeting to decide whether I'm

23:41going to be one of those votes, one of

23:42those 10 votes when we get there. And

23:45you know, our track record of having all

23:4715 here isn't always uh uh good. So, I

23:51don't know if that still means we have

23:52to have 10 or if we it's a percentage of

23:54the whole. I'm not even sure about that.

23:56But um but yeah, so if I vote yes

23:59tonight, it doesn't mean I'm voting yes

24:00at the the board of alderman.

24:02>> So, relative to maintenance, um when

24:05that building was built, the materials

24:07weren't built for maintaining. Um, the

24:11two high schools were built 20 years ago

24:14and people go in them today and they

24:16look brand new because they were built

24:18to be maintained and they are maintained

24:22uh, as well as all of our new schools.

24:25So, and as we heard from the contractor

24:28and from sustainability,

24:30they're putting a lot of effort into

24:32making sure this building is not only

24:33maintainable,

24:35but as a huge savings relative to health

24:38benefits, emissions,

24:42uh you know, things that we've been on

24:44this board asking for for a long, long

24:46time. when we build a building uh

24:49Alderman uh from Ward 5 used to always

24:53be after the sustainability things.

24:55Well, this building will support we

24:59heard from people on the sustainability

25:01issue.

25:03It's built to last. It's built to last

25:06and they said 50 years.

25:08the high school and the that we've been

25:12in mil middle school at Elm Street

25:14lasted almost a hundred years and that

25:16was built under war funds. So things

25:20have changed. The the building materials

25:22today are built to to be maintained

25:24easily and last. And and I think the

25:28savings

25:29are

25:31if you just take the savings in public

25:33health from the employees that are

25:35working there. That's critically

25:37important to me.

25:39These people deserve a good place to

25:41work. Yes, it's nice. We're going to

25:43keep the equipment longer

25:46and that saves us money. So there's a

25:49lot of ways with savings. Now can you

25:52quantify it to the dollar? Hell no. We

25:54don't know what's going on with with the

25:56economy especially now. But you know and

26:00as far as other boards are concerned

26:02those two high schools been through

26:03multiple boards of alderman and they're

26:05maintained. So I don't think that's an

26:08issue. Any other comments?

26:12All right.

26:14Motion on the floor is to recommend to

26:16the full board final passage of R26072.

26:22The clerk uh we don't have a

26:24>> voice vote. Yeah,

26:25>> voice vote. All those in favor signify

26:27by saying I.

26:28>> I opposed.

26:30>> Nay.

26:31>> Abstain.

26:33>> Motion carries.

26:35Also before us tonight is 2673

26:40changing the purpose up to 3,183,200

26:47of unexpended bond proceeds from the

26:49various division of public works capital

26:52projects to the division of public works

26:54garage and fleet maintenance facility

26:58project. Mr. Chairman like to make a

27:00motion to recommend final passage.

27:02Motion on the floor is to recommend

27:04final passage to the full board of

27:05R26073.

27:07Discussion.

27:10Seeing none, all those in favor signify

27:13by saying I.

27:15>> I.

27:16>> Opposed? I

27:17>> abstain

27:22>> division.

27:24All those in favor raise your hand.

27:30All those opposed.

27:32Motion carries.

27:34>> Extension.

27:35>> One of them staying.

27:37>> One of them staying.

27:39>> I'll let them hear your voice on that,

27:41Mike.

27:42>> All right. So now the consultants can

27:45>> unless you want it on the record.

27:46>> Go forth and prosper. It's

27:48>> fine. I've said it a billion times. I

27:50abstain.

27:52>> Okay. We're going back to the front,

27:55right, Mr. Chairman?

27:56>> To the front. Yeah.

27:57>> Okay. Tonight [clears throat] before us

27:59is R260059

28:02authorizing the mayor and city treasur

28:04to borrow an amount not to exceed $3

28:07million through the issuance of bonds

28:10and or loans through the New Hampshire

28:12Department of Environmental Services

28:14state revolving loan fund for the

28:16wastewater treatment plant one upgrades

28:20project. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make

28:22the motion recommend final passage.

28:25>> Okay. Okay. The motion on the floor is

28:26to recommend to the full board final

28:28passage of R26059.

28:31Discussion. Alman Johnson.

28:33>> Thank you. As I went through some of

28:35these resolutions, this is small money

28:37like $3 million, $2 million.

28:41Why are we bonding this and I asked the

28:44mayor and he said we have no money. And

28:47but when like I said earlier when I

28:49calculated

28:51that for 20 years

28:54we are spending $124

28:58million in just interest alone.

29:02Why would we bond this 2.5 million for

29:0520 years? Is that the one? Um it it just

29:09doesn't make sense.

29:12That's money. That's spent money

29:15on the interest.

29:18That's a lot of money on interest. I

29:21think the decision was made by the chief

29:23financial officer and and the mayor and

29:25his staff that this is one that should

29:28be bonded and not cash.

29:30>> Everything seems to be bonded.

29:32>> If I Yes,

29:33>> if I may, Mr. Chairman, and again, this

29:35is something we discussed uh at length

29:38during the ad hoc committee. For the

29:39record, Tim Cummings, director of

29:40administrative services. Um, I think

29:43it's a very fair point. We are working

29:45towards a goal of trying not to bond

29:48anything under about 1.5 million or or

29:50thereabouts. We cannot do that

29:53immediately overnight. Why? Because in

29:57our operational budget, how much do we

30:00set aside for capital projects using

30:03cash?

30:06>> The answer is $1.4 4 million. So, in our

30:10general operating fund, we set aside

30:12about $1.4 million to use for cash. Uh,

30:16I understand that that is low. I

30:20understand that there's a desire to

30:22increase that and it's something that I

30:24think the mayor and and myself and CFO

30:27Enright have all acknowledged and we say

30:29we'll work towards growing that budget,

30:32but it's going to take time. It's going

30:34to be incremental. And so until we can

30:36do that, we are needing to bond lower

30:39dollar amounts. And we made that uh

30:42point during the ad hoc committee

30:44because we know we will grow that budget

30:46over time to increase the capacity so we

30:49can start to afford some of these lower

30:52dollar amounts of of projects uh using

30:55using our cash.

30:56>> Thank you.

30:58>> May I respond to that?

30:59>> Hold on, Johnson. Yeah, you know, that's

31:03like someone giving saying to somebody,

31:05here's a credit card you can go out and

31:07spend, but don't worry about getting

31:09cash later on because you'll keep using

31:11the credit card and then when you want

31:13to use the cash, you can't because you

31:14keep paying back your credit card and

31:16all this high interest. And I think

31:19that's a poor way to run a city because

31:22it's the money that you're spending on

31:24interest. It's almost like it's for 20

31:27years. 20 years, you bonded my

31:31grandson's life and maybe my grand my

31:33great grandchildren over 20 years and

31:37even my kids right now. And that's and

31:40you're just bonding for 20 years on low

31:43money.

31:45I'm not going to support this because

31:46that's $124 million over a 20-year

31:50period that could be used for other

31:52projects, smaller projects rather than

31:54paying interest. Thank you,

31:57>> Director Cummings.

31:59Certainly. I I mean I I I hear the

32:01point. I acknowledge it. It's certainly

32:04one that is is is valid. I I think uh

32:08it's also sometimes lost on us that we

32:11also have an obligation to make sure

32:13that the future taxpayers who are going

32:15to be reaping the benefits of some of

32:18these assets also have a hand in paying

32:20it. That's one of the reasons why

32:22sometimes we we choose to uh bond

32:25projects and and have the the the life

32:29of the project be of a certain period.

32:31So it's it's paid for incrementally over

32:34the years ideally o it's being used over

32:37the years of the people who are

32:39receiving the benefit of it. NSHA very

32:42conservative and so in that case we tend

32:44to bond projects for only 20 years but

32:46then we expect a project life to to last

32:4930 years or or longer sometimes 50

32:52years. I mean I I look at the uh the the

32:55parking garages as a as a good example.

32:57We are we built those garages in the in

33:00the late 70s early 80s. Um we h we are

33:04trying to maintain them as best as we

33:06can but we got our 20 years out of those

33:10out out of those garages. We are now

33:13reinvesting

33:14in them and I hope we get another 20

33:16years or or longer and that is good uh

33:21municipal management and and financial

33:23planning. Thank you.

33:24>> Can I ask a question Mr. Chair?

33:27>> Yes.

33:27>> Of Mr. Buché on the wastewater treatment

33:30plant.

33:32>> Yes. By the way, this could be a loan

33:34rather than a bond.

33:36>> Correct.

33:36>> It's both mentioned in the in as one or

33:39the other,

33:40>> right? But you're still talking 4%

33:42interest. Either way,

33:43>> that's for the bond, not for the

33:44interest. We don't know what the

33:45interest is. That's why they have a

33:47decision to make.

33:48>> Okay. But still, a loan or bond is still

33:51paying interest on it.

33:53>> Question through the chair, please.

33:55>> Yes. Go ahead.

33:56>> Okay. on R-26-059.

34:01That's a the treatment plant phase one.

34:04How long are these upgrades going to

34:06last for?

34:07>> Uh so these are repairs to existing.

34:09>> Okay.

34:10>> Uh so these items, this facility has

34:14been around since the 60s,

34:16>> right?

34:16>> Early 60s. So we're expecting over 60

34:19years we we should be able to maintain

34:21these. [snorts]

34:21>> But these are repairs. How long is this?

34:23The $3 million that we're using for the

34:28treatment plant phase one upgrade

34:30project. Is this going to be 20 years

34:32worth this upgrade that that's on this

34:35bond? Is this going to last 20 years for

34:38the loan and or the bond?

34:42>> Some pay. We're hoping they will because

34:44some of these things are electronic

34:46components and and those have a life

34:49expectancy. We hope to get 20 years out

34:51of them. The ones that we're replacing

34:53have lasted 20 years, so we're hoping

34:55these would.

34:57>> Thank you.

34:58>> You're welcome.

34:59>> All right. Any other questions?

35:03>> Okay. Motion on the floor is to

35:05recommend final passage to the full

35:07board of of R 26059. All in favor

35:11signify by saying I. I.

35:13>> Opposed?

35:14>> Nay.

35:15>> Motion carries.

35:17Also before us tonight is R 26-60

35:21authorizing the mayor and city treasur

35:22issue bonds not to exceed 4,275,000

35:28for the city sewer infrastructure

35:30improvement and sewer and drain casting

35:33replacement programs. Mr. Chairman like

35:36to make the recommend recommendation of

35:39final passage. The recommendation is for

35:41final recommend final passage of the

35:43full board of R260.

35:45Any questions?

35:48>> Seeing none, all in favor signify by

35:50saying I.

35:51>> I. Opposed. Motion carries.

35:55>> Also before us is R-26-061

36:00authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

36:02to issue bonds not to exceed $2,550,000

36:08for various wastewater capital

36:10improvements. Mr. Chairman, I would like

36:12to make the motion to recommend final

36:15passage.

36:16>> So the motion on the floor is to

36:17recommend to the full board final

36:19passage of R26061.

36:21Questions, [snorts] discussion?

36:24>> Seeing none, all in favor signify by

36:27saying I.

36:27>> I opposed.

36:29>> Nay.

36:30>> Motion carries.

36:31>> Also, we have R-25-

36:34excuse me, R-26.

36:37It was a year later. 062 authorizing the

36:41mayor and city treasurer to issue bonds

36:43not to exceed $2 million for various

36:46improvements of the solid waste

36:47department for four hills landfill. Mr.

36:50Chairman, I would like to make a motion

36:52to recommend final passage.

36:54>> Motion is to recommend R 26062 to the

36:57full board for final passage. Discussion

37:01seeing none, all in favor signify by

37:03saying I.

37:04>> I opposed.

37:06>> Nay. Motion carries.

37:09Mr. Chairman, uh before us is R263,

37:14authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

37:16to issue bonds not to exceed 2,675,

37:22uh828

37:25for purchase of solid waste capital

37:27improvements. Mr. Chairman, I would like

37:29to make the motion recommend final

37:31passage.

37:32>> Motion on the floor is to recommend

37:33final passage to the full board of R

37:352603. questions?

37:39Seeing none, all in favor signify by

37:41saying I.

37:42>> I.

37:42>> Opposed?

37:43>> Nay.

37:44>> Motion carries.

37:46>> Mr. Chairman, also we have R-26-066

37:51authorizing the mayor and city treasurer

37:53to issue bonds not to exceed $5 million

37:56for the repair and renovation of two

37:58public inground swimming pools. Mr.

38:01Chairman, I'd like to make the uh

38:03recommendation of final passage. Motion

38:06on to floor is to recommend to the full

38:07board final passage of R 26066.

38:10Discussion.

38:12Alman Tibo.

38:14>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I think you

38:16know 5 million is a hell of a lot of

38:18money for a couple of pools, but

38:21if our superintendent says that's what

38:24it costs, that's what it costs. Um, I

38:26trust that they've done the uh the work

38:29on this. So, as far as pools go, I mean,

38:32they mentioned, you know, kids going

38:35there that don't have pools at their

38:36house, all that kind of stuff. One thing

38:38they they failed to mention, too, is is

38:40the fact that there's been lots of kids,

38:42including my three, that have learned

38:43how to swim there. Um, and so when we

38:46[snorts] have all the pools active in

38:47the summer, that's where kids go to

38:49learn how to swim. It's a fairly cheap

38:51uh way to to be able to uh you know

38:54teach your kids how to do that when you

38:56don't have access to water and uh places

38:58to go and and uh also cools kids off in

39:01the summer when it's extremely hot,

39:03especially people that just don't have

39:04access to pools. So, I think it's a

39:07worthy um spend um to make sure that

39:10kids have somewhere to go to uh stay

39:12cool and to learn how to swim. So,

39:15>> that also applies job opportunities for

39:18some of our kids. Alam. Yes. Alvin

39:20Kelly.

39:20>> Uh, so I I wanted to echo the comments

39:23that were made both in the public

39:24hearing and from my colleague just a

39:27moment ago that these pools are a really

39:29important equity thing for people in our

39:31city. And it's I'm always so proud when

39:33I get to talk about this. For many kids,

39:34that is their summer. Um, but I also

39:37pulled some statistics. I looked up, you

39:40know, average size of these. And this is

39:42on on the very low end. They actually

39:44did a reconstruction in Connecticut for

39:46about 4.2 to for one pool. Um whether we

39:50come in exactly there, I think you have

39:52to like make the argument that this is

39:54100% worth it. And considering that the

39:56average span of a pool is really about

39:5830 years, we got about 60 out of them.

40:00Um and I think our our city and and our

40:03children deserve this. Hold on. Ryan.

40:06>> Yeah. I just uh from tonight's

40:08testimony, I just want to go on record

40:10as saying recognizing

40:12one of our youngest members in our

40:15citizen in attendance, Patrick Sheay,

40:18who thinks this is a wicked good idea.

40:21>> Thank you.

40:22>> He's in bed by now.

40:24>> Any other questions or concerns?

40:28>> All right. Motion on the floor is to

40:30recommend to the full board final

40:31passage of R260.

40:36Oh, here it is. 066.

40:39>> Uh, all in favor signify by saying I. I

40:42opposed.

40:43>> Nay.

40:43>> Motion carries.

40:45>> Mr. Chair, that completes the items on

40:47the agenda.

40:48>> All right. New business ordinances.

40:50>> None.

40:51>> Table in committee?

40:52>> None.

40:53>> General discussion. All of Tibo.

40:55>> Sometimes you combine them. So, I'm just

40:57going to I'll say my remarks now. I just

40:59want to apologize to Alderman Johnson

41:01for last night. So, I will say that

41:03between me and her, we're we're probably

41:06uh two of the few aldermen that you can

41:08never call us probably fake because we

41:11tell what's on our mind and to our

41:13detriment at some point for both of us.

41:15Um we are passionate about what we do

41:17even though we are on the wrong on the

41:19different sides almost every time on

41:21some of these issues. Um, I was

41:23passionate last night and I raised my

41:25voice a little bit and I don't think I

41:26should have, but um I I won't won't take

41:28back my disagreement, but I I still

41:30think that uh I probably raised my voice

41:33a little too much. So, I apologize for

41:35that and uh uh I'll continue to try to

41:37work on that myself. So, thank you,

41:39>> Alivan Johnson.

41:40>> Thank you. No need to apologize. You

41:43know what? I just look at it this way.

41:44We get into discussions and when the

41:46discussion's over with, I move on, you

41:49know, and it's just that you and I are

41:51passionate about just like this. My

41:53point here tonight was it wasn't I

41:55didn't want to do things. It's that

41:56interest that's were paying and even on

42:00the pools is over $2.1 million in

42:03interest that we could do and use for

42:05other projects in this city like what

42:07you talk about, you know, the homeless

42:09and the resource center. So to me,

42:11that's money. It's like rent money is

42:13spent money. And I would like to see

42:16money instead of using it to bond, which

42:18everything said bonding, not loans. Um

42:21I'd rather see that money used in other

42:23areas that we need in this city than to

42:26pay out in interest. And um over 20

42:30years, it doesn't seem like a lot, but

42:31it really is because does anybody have

42:3521 2 $2.1 million in the back pocket,

42:39you know, to spend on anything? But I

42:40appreciate your apology and I respect

42:43you for it and I thank you and I enjoy

42:45working with you on the board even

42:47though we're on different sides

42:48sometimes. You know, we all can't think

42:50alike. It'd be pretty dull on this

42:52board.

42:53>> Thank you, [snorts]

42:55>> Kelly.

42:56>> We're in general discussion, correct?

42:58>> Yes.

42:58>> All right. I'm going to ask a annoying

43:00question, but I'm going to do it

43:01anyways. So maybe you know this

43:04historically, but it occurs to me that

43:07we have these public hearings and then

43:08it goes to committee, but we don't even

43:10know if we're going to have the 10

43:11votes. Could we just have the special

43:13board meeting and then go into the full

43:16board meeting so that all of these

43:18consultants don't have to come back a

43:19third or fourth? I mean, I think we've

43:21talked to them six times at this point.

43:26>> Have to check with

43:28legal on the timing. I think they're

43:31>> is it okay? may not be able to do that.

43:33>> Okay. Just just try to think of

43:35efficiencies cuz we are not enough of

43:37the board for that to be approved.

43:40>> No, that's true of almost all

43:42legislation.

43:44>> But these ones where they're like three

43:45quarters or even more so

43:47>> committee first. It was to committee

43:48first.

43:49>> Yeah.

43:49>> You said you had other questions.

43:51>> Nope. That's it. I'm good.

43:52>> I have a question on her question.

43:53[laughter]

43:55>> Alman Tebo,

43:56>> so I I mentioned it earlier about the 10

43:58votes. Um, it sounds like Alderwoman

44:00Kelly might have to abstain even in the

44:02board of alderman vote. So that knocks

44:04that down, you know, 15 alderman down to

44:0714. Is it still 10 votes or is it a

44:09percentage of the 15?

44:11>> I think it depends on what

44:13>> 10.

44:14>> It's 10 no matter what.

44:15>> 10 no matter what.

44:16>> Y Okay.

44:18>> I Mr. Chairman, may I

44:21>> O'Brien?

44:22>> I will check. But we follow Mason's

44:26rules of order which is the same thing

44:28that is discussed up at the state house

44:30and reason I didn't record her extension

44:35you cannot abstain if you're present and

44:38seated you have to vote

44:40>> okay according to Masons within the

44:43state house and they have to verify and

44:45correct me if I'm wrong Greg you know uh

44:48if you were up there you could take a

44:50walk

44:52but you got to vote If you're in the

44:54chamber, you have to vote.

44:55>> Yeah.

44:56>> Now, whether it applies here in this

45:00smaller version, we'll have to see. I'll

45:02ask legal.

45:03>> Legal has told me to abstain on any

45:05votes with that company. That's what

45:07they have required me to do.

45:09>> I am following legal's council.

45:12>> Other people are abstained from

45:13>> I think it's outside of Mason's. I think

45:16it's probably

45:18in the city charter or

45:20>> correct. Actually, it's mentioned in the

45:22legislation, but anyway. All right,

45:24there are no others. Um, couple things.

45:27First of all, I want to thank all of the

45:29people here from BPW. I know you guys

45:31long hours and I was glad that at least

45:34at this level we can pass these pieces

45:38of legislation on to the full board with

45:39approval and uh you guys do a great job

45:43and keep up the good work. Mhm.

45:46>> The other thing is these resolutions

45:48come out real a lot earlier than our

45:51public hearing and our meeting. In fact,

45:54it takes 15 days before it can go to a

45:56public hearing. If we have an issue with

45:58how it's going to be funded, I think

46:00that's the time you meet with the mayor

46:02and the finance and the and the city CFO

46:05to see if there's another way of

46:07financing it. It's sort of late to try

46:10and do it at this level.

46:12So if if we want to pay cash, we should

46:17you find out the why the reasons we

46:19can't. So I just wanted to say that. So

46:23all right,

46:23>> I have a question. Sorry, I know I said

46:26I wasn't done, but or I said I was done.

46:28>> Alman Kelly,

46:29>> hypothetically, we don't cover all this

46:31bonding at this at the full board. Do we

46:34have to go back to the ad hoc plan and

46:36readjust?

46:38>> Say that again.

46:38>> Hypothetically, not all of these things

46:40pass at the full board. Do we have to go

46:42back to the ad hoc plan and readjust?

46:46>> Um,

46:48I don't know. Um,

46:50>> what do you think, Director Cummings?

46:54>> I if I may, Mr. Chairman, um, Tim

46:58Cummings, director of administrative

46:59services, to answer your question

47:01specifically, you don't have to, right?

47:04So, it's advisory only. It's nonbinding.

47:08Uh, certainly that was good work. That

47:11was good policy direction and certainly

47:13a plan that we should be using to help

47:16inform your decision- making as you go

47:18forward. I can tell you internally

47:20between uh the CFO and myself, we're

47:23constantly having this constant

47:25conversation about how to to try to make

47:28things all work and fit together and

47:30we're doing the best that we can. Um and

47:33and we're re-evaluating the numbers as

47:35they're as they're being developed. Um

47:37and certainly as the develop as the

47:39budgets uh and and these projects get

47:41redefined, we are certainly seeing how

47:44that fits in our in our ad hoc plan.

47:46I'll give you an example and it's not up

47:48this evening, but in the ad hoc plan at

47:51the time we were thinking that the new

47:53quote unquote ERP system that um where

47:57we're where uh trying to to get

48:00underway, we had that at $10 million.

48:03the resolution that actually got laid

48:05before you for consideration is only $9

48:07million. And so we know that that's

48:09going to free up about $1 million of of

48:12capacity. And certainly we're we're

48:15thinking about those things along the

48:16way as we're as we're continuing to move

48:19forward trying to, you know, balance all

48:22the various competing uh needs and

48:24issues. Thank you.

48:26>> Yeah. Couple other things I just thought

48:27of. One is um

48:31you know we have a lot of people every

48:32budget season that want us to

48:36estimate our numbers closer and not have

48:38excess revenue. If we don't have excess

48:41revenue, we won't have any cash to do

48:43anything with. Um so that's where the

48:47mayor comes out with his end of the year

48:50with you want to spend some of the

48:51money. we 6 million towards the tax rate

48:54and there's a reason we don't go much

48:56higher than that because it would just

48:58cause the next year to be a catastrophe.

49:01So um you know it's a fine line you know

49:05we want to have be funding things with

49:07cash. We need the cash. So where do you

49:09get the cash? It's uh you'd have to have

49:11it from revenue from selling a lot of

49:13car licenses and dog licenses and other

49:17places. Um, so,

49:21um,

49:24anything I guess that's that's all I

49:26had. So, Alden O'Brien, do you have a

49:28motion?

49:29>> Oh, yes, I do. I'd like to make a motion

49:32to adjourn.

49:33>> Motion on the floor to adjurnn. All in

49:34favor signify by saying I.

49:36>> I.

49:38Motion objourn. Motion.

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