2026-07-22 - Board of Health

00:05[music] Good evening. Uh, today is

00:07Wednesday, July 22nd. This open meeting

00:10of the town of Auburn Board of Health is

00:12being operated as a hybrid format under

00:14chapter 22, the acts of 2022. The public

00:18can join the meeting remotely by phone.

00:21number is 1 2245013412

00:27an access code of 645782357.

00:33The public can also join the meeting via

00:35computer at httpsme.go.com/awuburn

00:44conference room 1. All supporting

00:47materials that have been provided to

00:48members of this board are available on

00:49the town's website. The public is

00:51encouraged to follow along using a

00:52posted agenda. As a preliminary matter,

00:55this is my name is Eric Uterson,

00:56chairman of the board of health. Permit

00:58me to confirm that all members are

01:00present and anticipated on the agenda by

01:02participating remotely and can hear me.

01:04Members, when I call your name, please

01:06respond in the affirmative. Carolyn

01:07Griffin,

01:08>> I.

01:09>> Carol Westerman,

01:10>> I.

01:11>> Town officials and employees

01:12participating, when I call your name,

01:13please respond in the affirmative.

01:15Darlene Coyle,

01:15>> here.

01:16>> Jordan Brusso,

01:17>> here.

01:17>> Tim Pratt,

01:18>> here. Roxanna Kennedy

01:19>> here.

01:20>> Tanya Corbo

01:21>> here.

01:22>> Uh please note that each vote taken in

01:24this meeting will be conducted by a roll

01:26call uh roll call vote. And please note

01:28that this meeting is being recorded by

01:30Alan Cable Television. And are there any

01:33members participating remotely

01:37hearing and seeing none I will call the

01:38meeting to order.

01:41All right. So first on our agenda this

01:43evening uh we have a reorganization of

01:45the board. Um so with the new terms up

01:49>> um yep

01:51>> uh so thank you very much. Uh so with

01:53the um the new terms um uh for this

01:56portion um we are going to take uh

01:59nominations from the board for the board

02:02of health chair. Do I hear any

02:04nominations?

02:07>> Eric Artis.

02:09Okay. Uh, so we have a nomination from

02:12Carolyn Griffin uh for Eric Uterson for

02:15chair of the board. Do I hear a second?

02:17>> Second.

02:18>> Cara has second it. Um, and are there

02:22any other nominations?

02:26Hearing and seeing none. Um, I will take

02:28a roll call vote. Um, Carolyn Griffin,

02:32>> yes.

02:33>> Cara Westerman,

02:34>> yes.

02:34>> Ericson,

02:36>> yes.

02:36>> Okay, thank you. So, we have a uh chair.

02:39Um and then for um uh can I hand it back

02:43over to you for vice

02:44>> chair please? Um so entertain any

02:47motions for vice chair.

02:51>> I would entertain a motion for Cara

02:53Westman.

02:54>> I second that.

02:56>> Right. All those in favor signify by

02:58saying I. Carolyn Griffin

03:00>> I.

03:00>> Eric Art I. And Carol Westman.

03:04>> Very good. We have a chair and a vice

03:06chair.

03:07>> And now we're going to get into Thank

03:08you. uh 6 p.m. hearing for 15 Murray a

03:11that is a dog hearing.

03:14Let me just pull up the script here.

03:19So [snorts] I will entertain a motion to

03:21open a dog hearing um for

03:24um the um so this is for 15 Marie A.

03:33>> So moved.

03:34>> Is there a second? Second

03:37>> and all those in favor signify by saying

03:38I. Carolyn Griffin

03:40>> I.

03:40>> Carol Westerman.

03:41>> Eric Otis I. The hearing is now open.

03:45>> Uh the purpose of this hearing is for

03:46the board to hear evidence concerning 15

03:49Murray A involving the dogs Milo and

03:52Luna regarding multiple complaints of

03:54the dogs being at large in excessive

03:56barking and to make determination as to

03:59what action to take if any regarding the

04:02dogs involved.

04:04The board will hear from representatives

04:06from the town who are involved in

04:07investigating the matter. The the board

04:09will also hear from residents of the

04:11town and other witnesses involved if

04:13any. The board will also provide the dog

04:16owners the opportunity to testify if

04:18those if they so choose. And then the

04:20board will um continue continue or close

04:23the hearing and make a decision on what

04:24should be done in the case and issue an

04:26order accordingly.

04:30Uh, can I have the um

04:35anyone who is providing testimony uh

04:37witnesses and or owners of the dog, if

04:39you may please stand?

04:44>> Okay. And you're the interpreter, ma'am.

04:46Excellent. So, she can stand right up

04:48there. Um, and is there anyone else

04:50providing testimony today regarding this

04:52dog hearing um or one of the witnesses?

04:57Okay. Um, ma'am, may you please raise

05:00your right hand?

05:02Uh, do you solemnly swear to tell the

05:04truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

05:05the truth? So, help you God.

05:10>> Yes, I do.

05:10>> Thank you. Um, all right. And the town

05:14officials, animal control officer,

05:15Tanya, um, may you raise your right

05:18hand. Um, do you solemnly swear to tell

05:21the truth, the whole truth, nothing but

05:22the truth? So, help you God.

05:23>> Yes.

05:24>> Thank you. All right. Um

05:30so now we will go to the uh actually

05:32Miss um Miss Corbo if you would uh mind.

05:37>> Um we started out around August 2024 um

05:42with barking complaints and loose dog

05:45complaints um at 15 Murray A. The first

05:49time I was out uh visiting, I was able

05:51to briefly speak with Jenny um through a

05:55camera that was on their house. Their

05:57dog was running around the neighborhood.

06:00Um she asked that I put the dog back

06:02into their backyard through a little

06:05gate. Um I did so following that was um

06:12quite a few complaints coming in about

06:13the dogs out. Um, I have people calling

06:16that they've almost hit the dogs. Um,

06:18the dogs are lunging at neighbors and

06:21neighbors dogs. Um, it's just been uh a

06:27lot of incidents from August to June

06:3023rd, 2025. We had another complaint

06:32about the dogs um running down the

06:35street. Then July 28th, 2025,

06:39um PD was called at approximately 10 PM

06:42for excessive barking um coming from the

06:45house. Nobody was answering the door. Um

06:48another time I went out to try to speak

06:50to the owners. Um and I believe it was

06:54their son that answered the door and

06:56said this parents were out of the

06:57country. I did give them letters um from

07:00the town saying we need to speak with

07:01them. I didn't get any uh contact back.

07:06Um then we did try to, you know, tell

07:09them the dogs aren't licensed.

07:10Unfortunately, the dogs are running

07:12around the neighborhood. We don't know

07:14because they're not licensed, we don't

07:15know if they're up to date in rabies

07:17vaccines. Um

07:20so it it's been ongoing trying to get to

07:23work together. Um unfortunately, it just

07:26hasn't happened. Um when we had the last

07:29hearing last month, um the next day I

07:34got a phone call from one of the

07:35neighbors saying right after the meeting

07:37the dog was loose in the neighborhood

07:39again. I did get another email today

07:42from the same person with pictures that

07:45unfortunately did not print. Um the dog

07:48was loose this Monday again in his yard.

07:51Um the dog now is up to date um with the

07:55licensing and vaccines as of the last

07:59meeting. Um

08:02so it's just

08:04been kind of ongoing of the dogs loose

08:06constant barking and we've been trying

08:09to work with them but just haven't been

08:12able to really effectively communicate

08:14and come to a solution.

08:16>> Okay.

08:19Thank you. Um, ma'am, this is now your

08:21time to provide any testimony based upon

08:24what you've heard from the animal

08:25control offices for the um for the board

08:27to consider.

08:38>> I really know who's making this

08:40complaints.

08:51I don't really know why he's making

08:53these complaints. He doesn't even live

08:56like next to me or across the street

08:58from me. He lives diagonally from my

09:01house. I don't know if this is racism.

09:10Sometimes my dogs are in the garage and

09:13he is lighting the dogs with a lamp on

09:16purpose.

09:29During the night, there's some foxes in

09:31front of my house and my dogs start

09:34barking and also the foxes start

09:36barking. So, it's not even my dogs who

09:38are making that noise. So,

09:51I already put a fence in front of my

09:53house, but my next door um neighbor, if

09:57he wants my dogs not to get into his

10:00property, he should put a fence, too.

10:24And you did mention that the the dog was

10:26wandering around when you went to the

10:28house. My son forgot to uh put the dog

10:31in and that's why he was loose.

10:48I don't know what's going to be the

10:49decision of the judge. I don't know what

10:51to do. What do you want me to do with my

10:52dogs? Should I give them away? Should I

10:55uh put them on adoption? My kids need

10:58their dogs, so I don't know what to do.

11:19I think my neighbor is invading my priv

11:21privacy because we're not able to do

11:24nothing. We are not able to put music.

11:27We're not able to do nothing freely

11:29because everything bothers my neighbor.

11:36anything further?

11:39No.

11:39>> No.

11:43You

11:43>> the decision is in your hands.

11:46>> Thank you very much for providing your

11:47testimony. We will certainly take that

11:48all into consideration.

11:50Uh, one of the things that I will

11:52mention is um as to your question on

11:57what exactly you should do or or not

11:59knowing what to do.

12:02Um, that is a a question that could have

12:04been asked to the dog officer when they

12:06had come to your house at any one of

12:08those numerous occasions. Do you

12:10remember the dog officer coming to your

12:11house at all?

12:18>> Yeah, she did. Did you have a

12:20conversation with her at any time?

12:34I did apologize. My son forgot to put

12:36the dogs in and they did um did pee and

12:41I apologized to her and I said this

12:43won't happen again.

12:45>> But that was the last time. What about

12:47all the times previous to this?

13:06Yes, I did. I did see her like twice

13:10>> when she knocked on your door. Did you

13:13think to come to talk to her and ask her

13:15questions as to why she could be there

13:17and what the complaint was and what

13:19could be done to remedy the situation at

13:22the time of the issue?

13:25Unbelievable.

13:44Yes, I did know because uh her car said

13:47um pest control and I I I am trying to

13:51put my dogs

13:53back in the yard and you know to have

13:55them um not to be wandering around.

14:02and my daughter is in charge of walking

14:05the dogs.

14:06>> But did you have a conversation with the

14:09dog officer when she presented herself

14:11to your property?

14:25Yes. that time that I got home and my

14:28the dog was wandering around.

14:36>> Yes. And my son was there and I don't

14:39know what what was the conversation with

14:41my son that time.

14:45>> We have um dates here going back to July

14:5028th of 2025,

14:53almost a year ago.

14:55And I have testimony from the dong

14:57officer that she was at your house and

15:00that um there was a fence gate broken.

15:04Um that she communicated with you

15:07through a security system. Um and then

15:11there was also times where it looked

15:14like folks folks were home but um no one

15:19came to the door. So why I'm pursuing

15:22this question? Did you want to

15:24interpret?

15:25>> Oh, she already heard this.

15:27>> Okay. I'm sorry. Why I'm getting to this

15:30point is we're now at a dog hearing. And

15:32a lot of these and a lot of times when

15:34we come to these dog hearings, it's

15:35because of a nonresponsive owner.

15:51>> Yes. Uh maybe we were not home when she

15:53got when she went to our house and the

15:57fence. Talking about the fence, I put a

15:59front fence and um on the side of the my

16:02my neighbor's home, I put something

16:09like a black black fence

16:12>> because we have pines there. So, we put

16:15a small black fence on my uh neighbors

16:21um next to the our neighbor's home.

16:25Are your dogs licensed currently with

16:28the town of Auburn?

16:31>> Yes, they're up to date.

16:34>> She licensed them June 1st of this year.

16:41>> Yes, because I was out of

16:50I was I didn't have a job, so I didn't

16:52have any money to license the dogs. So,

16:55I either pay the rent or license the

16:57dogs.

17:01>> Any other board members have questions?

17:05>> Are you aware if your dog has bit

17:07anybody?

17:10>> No.

17:18Yeah, they only hear noises and it's

17:20like a warning

17:22and

17:25>> and they bark. [clears throat]

17:26>> We have testimony from two people.

17:29>> Sorry.

17:32>> I think it's normal for dogs to bark.

17:35>> Yes. Um, we have testimony that was sent

17:38to us from two people who have um said

17:41that they've been bitten by the dogs

17:44when they've been loose.

17:49>> I don't know who they are,

17:51>> Mr. Corbal.

17:52>> So, there is four different people

17:54complaining of the dogs. It's not just

17:56one person. Um, I never got an official

17:59complaint. Um, one fellow did reach out

18:02to me after the last meeting that we had

18:05and he said he was in fact bit by the

18:07dog and apparently that was one of the

18:10reasons why he did put up a fence in his

18:12yard was to keep these dogs out. Um, I

18:15said in the future going forward he said

18:16it was a couple years back that the dog

18:19bit him or a year or so ago I said in

18:21the future if you get if you get bit you

18:23need to report it to us. We do and I

18:25explained the rabies protocol. Um and he

18:28said it's an ongoing issue. And then

18:30there's another neighbor saying that the

18:33dogs are now lunging at them, growling

18:36on their property. Um they're scared for

18:39he's scared for his wife and his new

18:40puppy mainly. Um there's not been a

18:44bite. He said they try to get his ankle

18:46and he kind of kicks them away because

18:48he is scared to get bit.

19:01As far as I know, they haven't bitten

19:03anybody. I know they kind of scare the

19:07person, but not bitten.

19:12>> Not that I know.

19:16>> You You have a home security camera?

19:22>> Yes. the outside.

19:23>> Was it pointing in the area of the

19:25garage?

19:28>> Do you have any footage that shows the

19:31one of the alleged complainants flashing

19:33a flashlight in the direction of your

19:35dogs making them bark?

19:49Yeah. No, because the camera it's like

19:52looking forward and the the neighbor

19:55lives like diagonal from my house,

19:59>> right? But does this does the camera

20:02face your garage? Does it monitor your

20:03garage area at all?

20:09Yes, the front of my house and forward.

20:13>> Okay.

20:14>> So, it is able to see folks from the

20:17street looking at your garage.

20:23>> Yes, of course.

20:29>> And the back also they it detects when

20:33they go by the house. You had stated

20:36earlier that one of these alleged

20:39complainants, someone that you know who

20:41it is, was flashing a light in the

20:44direction of your garage, making your

20:46dogs bark.

21:03Okay.

21:06Yeah. Well, they don't go by. They from

21:08their home, he uses the lamp to light my

21:12the dogs. That's when they start barking

21:15because they see the light. Okay.

21:20Have any other questions?

21:28I don't think so.

21:34Right. Um, is there any other um, so no

21:38one had any other additional um,

21:40testimony or evidence to be presented?

21:43And I will entertain a a motion to close

21:46the hearing.

21:47>> So moved.

21:48>> Is there a second?

21:49>> Second.

21:50>> And all those in favor signify by saying

21:51I. Carolyn Griffin.

21:52>> I.

21:53>> Carol Westerman. Ericson. I. All right.

21:56Hearing is now closed. Board will now

21:58um, deliberate.

22:00Um, I'm sorry. Closed. The testimony is

22:02now closed. We'll now deliberate. Um,

22:04are there any um

22:08>> um

22:09Tanya, could I ask you to um remind us

22:13again about um when they're a nuisance

22:16dog or what,

22:19you know, what would be a little bit

22:20more of um

22:22>> a foundation to keep the dogs enclosed

22:26and and how we determine.

22:29Um, so typically in this case, if you

22:32were asking my opinion on the nuisance

22:34versus versus dangerous dog, to me it

22:36would be more of a nuisance, um, where

22:38we're having dogs constantly in the

22:41neighborhood in people's yards, on their

22:43patios. Um, the barking is pretty

22:47excessive. Um, from what I was told by

22:50multiple neighbors, the dogs are kept in

22:52the garage um,

22:55pretty much all the time. Um, and that

22:57was another thing also in the report was

23:00the feces um, and the urine going out

23:02into the road. Um, so it's it would

23:06definitely be more of a nuisance for

23:08this one. Um, you know, where I I kind

23:13of question it where I I didn't get an

23:16official report about the bite. So

23:17that's not something that I do have on

23:19record. Um, so that's just kind of what

23:22I would be leaning towards if you're

23:24looking for a suggestion on that aspect.

23:27>> What um would be the recommendations for

23:30the options of the board um to move

23:33forward with this?

23:34>> Sure. I did print out um three separate

23:36ones if you'd like. Sorry. Um as as my

23:41recommendation with all the complaints,

23:43um the top one would be the licensing.

23:45uh make sure the l the every year the

23:47dogs are licensed so we do know that

23:49they're up to date on shots. Um it would

23:52be fence repairs um with a hopefully a

23:55time deadline set by the board of health

23:57for the completion of that. um possibly

24:00dog training with a professional dog

24:02obedience trainer um for a period I'd

24:05say of 6 months with progress reports

24:07coming back to the animal control

24:09officer um with a set time frame coming

24:12from the board of health um electric

24:14collars the e-collars either for the

24:17barking and keeping them on the property

24:20um the officers as well has confirmed

24:23when they've had to go out that it was

24:25coming from the garage nobody was

24:27answering the door Um, so that hopefully

24:30would kind of mitigate some of the

24:31excessive barking. Um, and that each dog

24:36would have an order made for both of

24:38them if this were to even come back in

24:40the future. Hopefully, they won't be

24:42getting out if one does bite. Um, that

24:44would kind of bring us into the

24:45territory of nuis dangerous. Um, and

24:49just having them separate would be

24:51beneficial.

24:58Can I say Can I Can she said something?

25:00Can she say something?

25:02>> Sure.

25:19>> Yes. Um, as you said, um, I can't put

25:23the dogs inside the ho the house. I have

25:25to keep them in the garage because I if

25:27I leave them in the house, they're going

25:29to, you know, make a mess. So, I'm going

25:32to have um they're going to stay in the

25:34garage and at night they stay in the

25:36garage, too.

25:45>> And during the day, they stay at the

25:47deck.

25:52Based upon the recommendations, do any

25:54board members have any? Uh,

26:02>> I would um

26:04recommend that this dog, Milo and um

26:07Luna, be considered nuisance dogs.

26:10>> So, we'll have to take them um both

26:12separately. Okay.

26:13>> So, we have to we'll do Milo first.

26:15>> Okay. Um, I'd like to make a motion to

26:20declare Milo a nuisance dog.

26:25>> Is there a second?

26:28>> Second.

26:29>> And all those in favor signify by saying

26:31I. Carolyn Griffin.

26:32>> I.

26:33>> Cara Westerman.

26:34>> Eric Art. I.

26:36>> And now for the orders for such dog.

26:41>> So they're in compliance with licensing.

26:43We know that.

26:44>> Yes. Um, fence repair.

26:48>> I would say fence repair needs to be

26:50completed.

26:54>> Um,

26:59I know that she said money's an issue.

27:01So,

27:03>> and I think in consider and and ma'am,

27:05what we're doing now is we've uh we're

27:07going to take into consideration your

27:09your testimony. I know you had you had

27:11told us that money was an issue. So,

27:12we're going to go through this list and

27:14see um how we can best um deal with with

27:18the order in consideration of of what

27:20you had in testimony.

27:31>> So, I do entertain a motion um that for

27:34Milo we um the licensing compliance,

27:37which we're in compliance with, that's

27:39already been taken care of. fence repair

27:41or replacement.

27:42>> Yes.

27:43>> Outdoor containment, which she seems to

27:45be in compliance with. Um, barking

27:48mitigation measures.

27:51>> Yes.

27:51>> Leash restrictions

27:55and electronic training and continuation

27:58uh containment collars.

28:01Is there um that that Yeah. So, just to

28:04review, uh I would entertain the motion

28:05for uh for Milo the fence repair or

28:08replacement, outdoor containment,

28:11barking mitigation measures, leash

28:13restrictions, and electronic training

28:15containment callers.

28:18>> So moved.

28:20>> Is there a second?

28:21>> Second.

28:22>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

28:24Carolyn Griffin.

28:25>> I.

28:26>> Hara Westerman.

28:27>> Eric Ot.

28:29Now moving on to Luna. Is there a motion

28:32for Luna?

28:35>> The motion to um

28:38also declare Luna a nuisance dog with um

28:44the same conditions which include fence

28:46repairs, outdoor containment,

28:50barking mitigation measures, leash

28:53restrictions,

28:54and electronic training and containment

28:57callers. license

28:59>> and the license is up to date. Um and

29:02and continue to keep the license up to

29:04date as required by the animal control

29:07officer.

29:08>> Is there a second?

29:12>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

29:14Carolyn Griffin

29:15>> I.

29:15>> Carol Westman.

29:16>> Ericson I. Right. So, ma'am, the um the

29:20board has determined both dogs to be

29:22nuisance nuisance animals, and there are

29:24recommendations

29:26um which we've set forth in

29:28consideration of um the issues you had

29:30provided in in prior testimony. Um we'll

29:34have you work with the animal control

29:35officer um moving forward to to you

29:39know, make sure that those are are are

29:40being carried forth.

29:41>> Can we get the documents translated?

29:44Will it not be?

29:45>> Yeah. And we'll we'll get all of this

29:47translated into May I have timelines as

29:50well?

29:52>> Um,

29:52>> for the fence repairs?

29:54>> Yes.

29:55>> Thank you. Sorry.

29:56>> Sorry.

29:56>> No, that's okay. I would um

30:04>> What do you think is the reason?

30:05>> Yeah. What do you think of the

30:08circumstances?

30:09>> 30 days, 60 days.

30:10>> I think that that's

30:11>> whatever. Okay. All right. All right. In

30:14consideration of what you said

30:15>> to um amend our finding for Milo, the

30:19fence repairs need to be completed

30:21within 30 days.

30:27>> And is there a second?

30:28>> Second.

30:29>> And all those in favor signify by saying

30:30I. Carolyn Griffin.

30:32>> Hi.

30:32>> Car Westerman.

30:33>> Eric Ut.

30:35>> And the same order amended for Luna also

30:40the repair of the fence within 30 days.

30:43Second.

30:44>> All right. And is there um Oh, so so

30:47move was it motion? Second. All those in

30:49favor signify by saying I. Karen

30:51Griffin.

30:51>> I.

30:51>> Cara Westman.

30:53>> Eric Art. I

30:54>> All right.

30:58Hearing is closed. Uh so I'd entertain a

30:59motion to close the hearing.

31:01>> So moved.

31:02>> And is there a second?

31:05>> Second.

31:05>> And all those in favor signify by saying

31:07I. Carolyn Griffin. I

31:08>> Carol Westerman.

31:09>> I. Ericson. Okay.

31:13Ma'am, that the hearing is closed and

31:14you can work with the the um uh the

31:17animal control officer on the next steps

31:20on on how to mitigate this problem.

31:23>> Um she has a question. Are do those

31:26steps can she work with her right now or

31:29when after when are they going to talk

31:31about

31:32>> at some point within the next 30 days?

31:33Um she will make at a at a time where

31:36you're available. Um but remember if if

31:39you are home um or another responsible

31:42adult to be home then please answer the

31:44door and and and speak with her.

31:57Okay. Thank you.

31:58>> Okay. Thank you. All right. Next on the

32:02agenda, we have a dog hearing for at 610

32:06um for uh 12 Pine Valley Road. Uh I will

32:11entertain a motion to open the dog

32:13hearing.

32:15>> So moved.

32:16>> Is there a second?

32:17>> Second.

32:18>> All those um all those in favor signify

32:20by saying I. Carolyn Griffin.

32:22>> I.

32:23>> Eric Addison. I Carol Westerman. Hi.

32:25Sorry, you took out of footage.

32:27Um, the purpose of this hearing is for

32:29the board to hear evidence concerning 12

32:31Pine Valley Drive involving the dog

32:33tuxedo getting loose from his house and

32:36attacking Tiger and to make a

32:38determination as to what action to take,

32:40if any, regarding the dog or dogs

32:43involved.

32:44The board will hear uh from the

32:46representatives of the town who will be

32:48involved in investigating the matter.

32:50The board will hear from residents of

32:52the town and any other witnesses um

32:54involved, if any. The board will provide

32:57the dog owner the opportunity to testify

33:00if they so choose. The board will then

33:02continue or close the hearing and make a

33:04decision as to what should be done in

33:06the case and will issue an order

33:08accordingly.

33:13The witnesses for this hearing uh are

33:15any of you present uh in the audience

33:17today? Could you raise your hand please?

33:20Okay. Um, so I I I see you all in front.

33:24Can you all please raise your right

33:26hand?

33:28And do you solemnly swear to tell the

33:30truth, the whole truth, nothing but the

33:32truth. So I help you God. Thank you.

33:35And the investigating town official beh.

33:46>> Yes.

33:47And the complainants, they may be um the

33:50complaint is part of that initial group

33:52that I had. Yes. Okay. So, you've

33:54already been sworn in. Um

33:57Okay.

34:00>> Yes.

34:00>> I'm sorry. I just want to make sure. Um

34:02did you open?

34:04>> Yes.

34:05>> Oh,

34:05>> we open the hearing correct today.

34:07>> I just wanted to make sure. I know we

34:08went through this. I just want to make

34:10sure. Okay.

34:10>> Yeah.

34:11>> Um

34:14Okay. Uh Miss Corbbo. Um on 610 I got a

34:19rabies or possible rabies vaccine notice

34:22from um Veg and Shrewsbury. I was

34:25notified that a dog broke out of a door

34:31um of his front house, ran into the road

34:33and attacked another dog. Um these dogs

34:37was were tuxedo. Um he is the one that

34:41broke through the door and he attacked

34:44Tiger. Tiger and his owner um were

34:47walking down the road. Tiger was on

34:49leash. Um Tuxedo

34:52um broke through the front door and

34:54attacked him multiple times with bites.

34:56Um in the packet that you guys got were

35:00pictures of the wounds. Um

35:04and those do you have those?

35:07>> Those are were part of this packet that

35:09>> Oh, were they? Oh, I'm so sorry, Tanya.

35:11Yes.

35:11>> Okay. Um, so I did speak with the owner

35:15of Tiger. Um, obviously she brought him

35:19right to Veg. They, um, did everything

35:21they could. He had two separate visits

35:24from there. Um, I spoke with the vet

35:28that was working on him and due to the

35:31injuries, um, they had to euthanize

35:34Tiger. Um, this was not, uh, one bite.

35:40This was multiple bites as you can tell.

35:42Um I did speak to the owner um of Tuxedo

35:46and she did notify us that this has

35:48never happened. Um first time dog has

35:51been around people. Dog goes to dog

35:53parks. Um

35:56but unfortunately in cases like this

35:59it's just it's it's not one single bite.

36:02It's a little concerning for us. Um, we

36:06did this morning get an email from the

36:09owner. Um, and she asked for this to be

36:12also um, kind of sent into you guys.

36:16People did write letters um, on behalf

36:20of Tuxedo

36:22um, stating

36:24um, he's a good dog. Uh, so that's just

36:27I did just get them this morning, so I

36:29apologize they're not in the packets.

36:31Um, and there's also a question as to

36:34when I got the initial report, um, Tiger

36:38was walking with his owner down the

36:40street on leash. Um, and then this

36:42morning when I spoke to the owner of

36:44Tuxedo, um, she said that was incorrect.

36:47Um, so she also included a picture

36:49showing uh, dogs are not there, but

36:52where she thinks that it did take place.

36:55Um, so that's also in question.

36:59>> Repeat that last part. I'm sorry. Um, so

37:01on the picture that was sent in today,

37:04um, the owner of Tuxedo, um, is saying

37:07that the attack did not happen in the

37:10street where it got reported, that the

37:12attack happened in this area that's

37:15right on the sidewalk, her property

37:17line. Um, so that's kind of also in

37:20dispute right now. Uh, again, this just

37:22came in this morning, so I apologize. It

37:24was not in your packet. If you want, I

37:26do have a copy of those.

37:30So this is alleging where the the the

37:32bite had taken place was correct. Red

37:35circle was

37:35>> correct. Uh correct. Um in in my opinion

37:38it's even if it was on the road versus

37:41sidewalk slash yard. Um the alarming

37:46thing for me is the multiple bites in

37:48the wounds for this. It was not just a

37:50one one and done.

38:12Right. Um so hearing that the town's um

38:16presentation of of the incident in the

38:18in the complaint um the the dog owner um

38:23do you have Oh, I'm sorry. The

38:24complainant. Are the complaintants

38:26present? Yes. May you approach the

38:28podium, please?

38:35Okay. And you're

38:38you are I'm sorry, your name.

38:40>> My name is Jean Brewer. I live at 14

38:44Deerfield Circle, which is in essence a

38:48direct extension of Pine Valley. You

38:51come down Deerfield Circle, you cross

38:54Potter Farm Road and Pine Valley

38:57continues.

38:58>> Thank you. Okay, you may proceed.

39:01>> Okay. Um the morning

39:07of Wednesday, June 10th, I was walking

39:10my 70B greyhound tiger.

39:14Uh I'd had him seven months.

39:18[snorts] He is my third greyhound.

39:21And uh we've always walked the entire

39:24Porter farm development without an

39:26issue.

39:28Uh uh

39:30more recently prior to June 10th,

39:34we would come down Pine Valley, but not

39:38yet hit the culde-sac part, the circle,

39:44and Tuxedo would be barking at us from

39:47across the culde-sac on the other side

39:50at his house. So, we would just turn

39:54around and go back up Pine Valley and

39:56not go down there.

39:58Um, this particular morning as we walked

40:00down, I looked out and I did not see

40:03Tuxedo outside the house,

40:06I saw Mrs. Jolly on her front porch with

40:11a parcel. So, Tiger and I crossed the

40:16the kind of like the common area where

40:18the gazebo and the grass and all the

40:20bushes are in the middle of a culde-sac.

40:24And I said, "Betty, can I help you with

40:26that?" And we proceeded from that grassy

40:31area into the street, the culde-sac.

40:35And that's when tuxedo came rushing out

40:39of the house.

40:41Uh, I would say that Betty and I both

40:45were in absolute shock.

40:48uh tuxedo. I'm sorry. Tiger, my

40:51greyhound

40:53had a leash, had his collar and his

40:57license on his collar. And when Tuxedo

41:02hit him, he did to the dog officer's

41:05point. I said we were walking down the

41:07street. He hit him and knocked him onto

41:10the grassy area between the street and

41:13the sidewalk.

41:15And then after the sidewalk starts Mrs.

41:17Jolly's property. So yes, technically we

41:21were not in the street. We were on that

41:23little grassy strip. He knocked Tiger

41:26over onto his back [snorts]

41:30and just proceeded to bite him very

41:32aggressively. And Tiger was screeching.

41:36I reached down and I grabbed Tiger's

41:38collar and I tried to drag him backwards

41:42away from it

41:44and

41:46I tried to grab Tuxedo's collar and pull

41:49him this way away from Tiger and I

41:52couldn't.

41:53And thank God Sophia was home. She came

41:57out, got tuxedo and took him back in the

42:00house.

42:03Um,

42:05I took him immediately up to the

42:07veterinarian emergency group on Route 9

42:10and they worked on him for about six

42:12hours.

42:14Uh, I sent pictures to the dog officer.

42:18He had significant injuries to his neck,

42:23his legs where tuxedo bit him both top

42:26and bottom when he bit

42:28um his left flank and his butt

42:32and his groin area. They had to put

42:36drains in his neck and in two places in

42:40his groin area to help the wound

42:45heal or the the infection drain or

42:47something. Um

42:52they said bring him back on Friday

42:55the 12th so we can take the drains out.

42:59And in the meantime he was home. He was

43:03he was listless. He he had no energy. He

43:06wouldn't eat.

43:08He was bleeding still. He was urinating

43:10on his bed because he it was hard to get

43:13up.

43:15So when I took him back, they said, "We

43:16can't take the drains out."

43:19So I said, "Will it help if you keep him

43:21for the day and introvenous might work

43:24faster?" And they said, "Yes."

43:27So I called them back at 6:00 and the

43:31veterinarian said the doctor said Tiger

43:34is not responding.

43:36He is still laying down. He is whining,

43:40crying. Um we have increased the

43:45strength of his pain meds. We have

43:47increased his antibiotics. He just is

43:52not turning the corner. I want to keep

43:55him overnight. So I said, "Okay."

43:59So I called them Saturday morning and

44:01they said

44:04they were concerned that sepsis was

44:06setting in. And so they contacted a

44:10surgeon at TUS

44:13to confirm and maybe take their

44:16assessment a step further. And the

44:19gentleman, the surgeon from TUS said,

44:21"Yes, I will come in for $6,000 cash

44:25before I look at the dog." So I

44:31was a little disrespectful and said,

44:33"Thank you, but I don't want the

44:34surgeon."

44:36Um,

44:38so I I went in to the veterinarian

44:41emergency group, spoke to the doctor and

44:44said,

44:46"If he is not responding, how long do

44:49you think it will take him to recover?"

44:52And she said, "The wounds are deep.

44:54We're afraid they've punctured the

44:55abdomen.

44:58It's going to take him months to recover

45:02from these wounds."

45:05So,

45:07as a responsible dog on owner, I I I

45:10can't just see my dog suffer if I

45:13brought him home. All I could do was

45:14stuff a pill in his mouth every 8 hours,

45:16you know. So,

45:20I talked to the doctor and we agreed to

45:22euthanize him.

45:25Uh the following week, I went down to

45:29Mrs. Jollie's house. And I will say that

45:32um they have been extremely gracious. I

45:36have got to know Christine a little bit

45:37more, the dog's mom. She's a lovely,

45:41lovely young woman. Uh they have come

45:45forth and paid all of the vet bills,

45:48which approached $6,000.

45:52Uh

45:54Sophia, I am grateful for that she was

45:56there to bring Tuxedo in the house that

46:00day.

46:01Uh the attack was completely unprovoked.

46:06I don't know what made him come out of

46:07the house. We were not talking or

46:10singing or jumping around or making

46:13actions or, you know, anything to to

46:16rile a dog up.

46:19Uh

46:22he has barked at us like I said earlier

46:24from across the culdesac

46:27and other neighbors have seen that and

46:29they said Jesus Jean you're not even off

46:32Pine Valley yet and he's barking at you

46:35from across the culde-sac.

46:37I'm afraid to go down there. They do

46:40have him on a kind of a cable tied to

46:43the front porch.

46:45However, that's a strong dog and I'm

46:48afraid that little wooden ballister

46:50that's holding his cable is going to

46:52break and I'm afraid to go down there.

46:56Other neighbors of mine have said that

46:58he has barked at them and they said they

47:01would be here tonight, but they are not

47:03and I'm disappointed.

47:05Um,

47:11I I very much want to get another dog

47:14and I've pretty much decided that if I

47:17walk it, it will be somewhere else

47:19because I'm don't want to walk around

47:22Potterer Farm anymore.

47:25And I feel very guilty that I couldn't

47:27protect the dog that I rescued

47:32and I couldn't make him feel better.

47:35And uh in talking with Christine, you

47:39know, our talks were cordial, they were

47:41civil,

47:44and uh I feel terrible that it happened.

47:52At a minimum, I think the dog needs to

47:54be removed from the residence

47:57because a dog of that size and that

47:59aggressiveness, although it has not been

48:01demonstrated before,

48:04he does not belong in an over 55

48:06community.

48:08I'm almost 72 years old and if I'm

48:11afraid to walk in my neighborhood,

48:13that's not right.

48:15Uh there are grandchildren around. There

48:17are other dogs, small dogs around.

48:21So, um,

48:24with that, I I, uh, [sighs]

48:29I I think that's it. Um,

48:33the neighbors that said they would come

48:35and have not have said that the dog does

48:38not wear a muzzle when it's on when it's

48:41outside, which was what the dog officer

48:44recommended. I don't know if that meant

48:46just during the quarantine period or

48:50going forward. He is on a leash going

48:53forward, but they said there is no

48:55muzzle. People have said they come out

48:58of their house,

49:01they look around. Okay, fine. I'll bring

49:03my dog out now.

49:06I don't think we should have to live

49:08like that. I'm a dog lover and I I don't

49:11want to hurt Christine or Betty or

49:13Sophia, but

49:16it happened

49:18and you've got pictures.

49:22So that's it.

49:24>> Thank you for your testimony.

49:26>> Sorry.

49:29>> The um sorry

49:32>> uh testimony from the the the dog

49:34owners. May you been coming up

49:42>> and just state your name, ma'am.

49:44>> Christine Apple.

49:46>> Okay.

49:50>> Um I have

49:53>> Could you come

49:53>> tuxedo for three years? Um and I will

49:58say he does bark when

50:02there are people that pass in front of

50:03the house. when he sees a dog. However,

50:09and I don't want

50:12this is no way, shape or form to take

50:15anything away from this horrible

50:17incident because it was tragic,

50:21but I've taken full responsibility

50:25for what happened.

50:27I have the dog has never had an incident

50:33in the three years that I've owned him.

50:36And whether and as far as people, we

50:40have people in and out of our house all

50:42the time.

50:44My mom has a book club that comes over

50:49um with people in the neighborhood and

50:52tux sits under the table waiting for

50:55scraps. Um, they sent you letters saying

50:58that they never once felt fear. My

51:01neighbor that lives right next door to

51:03me has never felt any fear.

51:07I'm asking

51:09when I found out what happened. I

51:12immediately checked and I do want to

51:14correct the door was not broken.

51:18What happened was the latch was a little

51:21loose. So when he barked at the door,

51:24the door opened and he came out.

51:28I the day that I found out this

51:31happened, I immediately fixed that lock.

51:36I put a gate across

51:41the front porch

51:43so that even if he got through the door,

51:47I don't know if you can see this or can

51:49I

51:50>> You want if you want to bring it up, we

51:51can take a picture.

51:56>> That gate goes right across. So even if

51:58he got through the door,

52:02>> there's a gate.

52:02>> What kind of dog is he again? He is a

52:05lab box off boxer cross.

52:07>> Okay.

52:10>> Um

52:12and actually this is

52:15>> Yeah.

52:17>> which is in the back.

52:21Um

52:23this is playing with

52:26>> the dog that runs loose in the

52:28neighborhood.

52:32And as far as the elderly people in the

52:35neighborhood, this is a picture of him

52:37with the book clubs.

52:43My elderly

52:45father who has since passed. This was

52:47his companion.

52:54And Tuxedo has been to the dog park

53:00a bunch of times.

53:02which I have pictures

53:04>> I think

53:05>> along with the pictures of the cats.

53:07>> Yeah.

53:07>> Thank you.

53:08>> Thank you.

53:09>> I just have you to go back to the Yeah.

53:11And I guess we'll we'll just I guess the

53:13the director would like copies of these

53:14if that is okay with you.

53:16>> Sure. Okay. Okay.

53:18>> But what I want to say

53:22is that I did take responsibility. I

53:25feel horrible

53:27about this loss.

53:29There's nothing I can't imagine the

53:32heartbreak that Jean has gone through. I

53:35was horrified

53:38to hear this happened. We had never

53:40experienced a single thing. And as soon

53:44as I found out something happened, I

53:47fixed it immediately

53:50so that he can't get out.

53:54As far as the muzzle, I was never told I

53:56had to muzzle my dog.

53:59Um, that was never explained to me. He

54:03has always been up to date on all

54:05vaccinations.

54:08He's licensed.

54:10He goes to

54:12He goes to the

54:15rest home with my

54:18boyfriend to visit some of the people

54:20that have Alzheimer's.

54:23So he's

54:25not

54:26this one incident does not define him.

54:31And the reason why I'm fighting so hard

54:34is he means the world to me, my

54:37daughter, my mom, and my dad that

54:39passed. He was her.

54:42He was his companion.

54:45Yes, he does bark at people going by. He

54:49barks at people halfway down the street.

54:52He has never been loose.

54:55He has never been unsupervised.

54:59He's always in the backyard.

55:01It was a tragic

55:04accident that the door

55:07has since, like I said, I put these

55:10things in place

55:12so that this could never ever happen

55:15again.

55:19So I just ask that you take that into

55:22consideration

55:23and the fact that he has been in a 55

55:26and older community for over 3 years

55:30with zero complaints,

55:33zero reports

55:36and neighbors that come over to give

55:38them biscuits.

55:44And this is my daughter. Hello.

55:47>> Hi.

55:48>> Um,

55:49>> I guess I can just speak on the day of

55:51the incident since I grabbed my dog

55:54away. So, um, just to kind of clarify,

55:57make it a little more make more sense.

55:59Uh, our door, we have like a screen door

56:02and then the front door. So, the front

56:04door was kind of open. It was the screen

56:06door that was closed and the screen door

56:08that had the issue with the the latch.

56:11Um, I was in my room, which is on the

56:14first floor of my house, so I can hear

56:16like the door open and close. So, I knew

56:19my grandmother was going, she was going

56:21to the laundromat, I believe. So, she

56:23left the house. Um, Tux likes to watch

56:27her walk out or anyone. He just likes to

56:28sit there and watch. So, I wasn't

56:30thinking anything of it. The door to my

56:32room was open, so I could hear pretty

56:33much everything. Um, I heard the screen

56:36door open and then just like some type

56:39of I don't know. I heard the door open

56:41and then something. So, I ran out and

56:43then I since grabbed his collar and then

56:45pulled him back into the house. Um, then

56:48I brought him in the house. I closed

56:51both doors tightly and

56:55I guess that's all I can say on the day.

56:57That's what I did. Yeah.

57:00Um, I'd say Tux, other than this

57:03horrible incident, is a good dog. Um,

57:06he's a loud dog. I'll say he does bark,

57:08but never

57:11besides this one-off incident would I

57:12say it was malicious in any way. Um,

57:16he's just very expressive. I don't

57:18really know how to describe it, but he

57:19does make a lot of noise, but very

57:21rarely is ever or if ever um with like a

57:27malicious or negative intent, I would

57:29say.

57:32>> Thank you for your testimony.

57:33>> Thank you. See, um, in hearing the the

57:37the town's testimony and and both of

57:40your, uh, testimony as well, um, first I

57:44I want to say that if if there's ever an

57:46example of how two dog owners should,

57:50you know, conduct themselves during a

57:52horrible incident, this would be an

57:53example. I apologize deeply for this

57:57incident having to happen. I apologize

57:59to the the the poor euthanization and

58:01death of your dog. And I'm I'm sorry

58:03that your dog had to be involved in this

58:05as well. Um, you know, we've been doing

58:08dog hearings for for some time now. Um,

58:11and I don't think I've ever seen a dog

58:13hearing like this where two owners have

58:15come together and acted so

58:17professionally. So, I want to applaud

58:20you and also um just thank you for for

58:24taking this seriously and also um you

58:27know just seems like being good people.

58:29So, I want to thank you both very much

58:31for that.

58:33Um, and I do you any comments before we

58:38go into the

58:39>> No, I think you said that perfectly.

58:42>> I echo your your comments. It's a tragic

58:45situation and the

58:48>> and the togetherness through this is

58:52um

58:54it's it's emotional. It's emotional for

58:56all of us sitting here hearing it. So, I

58:59I can't imagine your your loss and your

59:01part in it, but thank you for your

59:03cooperation.

59:05>> Uh, Miss Corbo, do you have any

59:06recommendations for the board?

59:08>> I do. Um, before I start with the

59:10recommendations, um, and I do I do hear

59:14both sides. Um, I'm not saying that, you

59:17know, he's he's a bad dog or, you know,

59:21that's that's the hard part here. I do I

59:23see the pictures. He's he's adorable. My

59:26concern as the animal control officer

59:28and animal inspector is going forward um

59:30where this has happened once already. Uh

59:33I know we frequent the dog park which

59:36honestly it makes me a little worried um

59:40after seeing this. Um my recommendations

59:44um would be that he is kept up to date

59:46with the licensing. Um unfortunately he

59:49was not licensed when this did happen.

59:52Um, so that was a little difficult

59:54figuring out if we were up to date on

59:57shots or not. Um, I do have the

1:00:00recommendations again printed out if you

1:00:02would like to see those. Um, some sort

1:00:06of secure confinement in the front of

1:00:08the house. Uh, I do see the picture of

1:00:10the gate. Uh,

1:00:13it's that's not that it's not going to

1:00:16hold him back. Um, so we have to think

1:00:18of something other than that gate,

1:00:20whether it's going to be, you know, he's

1:00:22got to be on a leash or I don't know if

1:00:24there's a bigger fence out there, if

1:00:26it's a fenced in yard. Um, but there

1:00:28will have to be some kind of additional

1:00:31containment measures. Um, when he is off

1:00:34the property, I do recommend that he is

1:00:37on a leash. Um, he is under control by a

1:00:41competent adult over the age of 18 years

1:00:44old. um and that he has a properly

1:00:47fitted muzzle at all times while he's

1:00:50off the property of 12 Pine Valley

1:00:52Drive. Um the other suggestions were

1:00:54owner education, um possibly a

1:00:57behavioral um evaluation by a

1:01:00professional. Um I'm not sure if he's

1:01:03microchipped or not, but I do recommend

1:01:05that he is to be microchipped as well.

1:01:08Um

1:01:10and then you know always at the very end

1:01:13which is not you know a current

1:01:15recommendation that I am making in this

1:01:17case but the option is there for um

1:01:20euthanization

1:01:28>> and um in looking at these um I know

1:01:33ma'am you had mentioned that you you

1:01:35wanted a dog to be at a minimum removed

1:01:37from the home. Um I I will say that we

1:01:40we've never done that in years. Okay. Um

1:01:44we we certainly are not I don't believe

1:01:46we're at that point um yet with this

1:01:49being with the the history that was

1:01:51provided for that. Um but based upon the

1:01:56the evidence that was uh presented by

1:01:58the town, the complainant, and then also

1:02:00hearing the dog owner's testimony, um is

1:02:04there a motion on um tuxedo being voted

1:02:07as a a dangerous dog?

1:02:17>> I'll make a motion to deem tuxedo a

1:02:21dangerous dog. Is there a second?

1:02:25>> I will second that. And all those in

1:02:27favor signify by saying I. Carolyn

1:02:29Griffin.

1:02:30>> I.

1:02:30>> Cara Westerman.

1:02:31>> I.

1:02:32>> Eric Addison. I. So, tuxedo has been

1:02:36determined a um a dangerous animal. Now,

1:02:39we'll just go through what um based upon

1:02:42the um dog office recommendations, what

1:02:46um what would be most appropriate. So, I

1:02:49think in reviewing these in and hearing

1:02:52what she had said, um I I do have one

1:02:58question as far the properly fitted

1:02:59muzzle at all times when off the

1:03:01property at 12 Pine Valley Drive. Um the

1:03:04dog does frequent retirement homes. You

1:03:06were saying

1:03:08>> he did

1:03:09>> in the past. When was when was the is

1:03:11this a regularly scheduled thing?

1:03:13>> It was my boyfriend. Um, it's a home.

1:03:19>> Okay.

1:03:20>> And which unfortunately first they

1:03:23visited us since.

1:03:26>> Okay.

1:03:26>> I do not

1:03:30pretty much anywhere. Um and he is my

1:03:35child

1:03:41all the way back

1:03:43not

1:03:51thank you

1:03:52seriously and I honestly

1:03:59if I recall my daughter was dangerous

1:04:04Okay. All right. I You guys have any

1:04:06issues hearing that? She already said

1:04:08that. So, okay. Um based upon um Oh,

1:04:13yes. U just actually could you just come

1:04:15up to the microphone just a larger room

1:04:17here. Sorry.

1:04:21>> Just one point I failed to make and when

1:04:24Christine mentioned it, it joged my old

1:04:27brain. uh the time that I had tiger I am

1:04:31a eucharistic minister for my church St.

1:04:34Joseph St. Charlton and as such I visit

1:04:38the nursing home and a lot of people in

1:04:40individual houses that cannot get out I

1:04:44bring communion to them and Tiger was

1:04:47always by my side. So, like tuxedo, he

1:04:51was in an environment with a lot of

1:04:53people and we never had a problem with

1:04:56him, but I just wanted to

1:05:00Greyhounds are docselled. They don't

1:05:02have a fight instinct. They have a sleep

1:05:04instinct.

1:05:06So, that was all.

1:05:07>> Thank you. Um, so hearing that in in

1:05:11regards to um Tiger being deemed as

1:05:14dangerous dog, I would entertain a

1:05:15motion. Um,

1:05:18oh,

1:05:21>> uh,

1:05:23sir, you you weren't unfort you weren't

1:05:25sworn in at the beginning of the

1:05:26hearing.

1:05:30>> Yeah,

1:05:30>> that's registering. Unfortunately, we

1:05:32unfortunately

1:05:36>> what what what is your name and and what

1:05:41>> go over there? I just have a couple

1:05:42questions for you before we decide. Um,

1:05:50so the the the hearings are are

1:05:51scheduled and we do hear we do put

1:05:53everyone under oath initially. Um, you

1:05:58know, because we've been hearing

1:05:59testimony from everybody now and then

1:06:01now this we're we're at the end and and

1:06:04now this is kind of a

1:06:05>> Well, it's my understanding that you

1:06:06were maybe going to ask for people to

1:06:08speak in support of either side and that

1:06:10never happened. So, I'd like to take

1:06:12this opportunity to address the board

1:06:14and

1:06:15>> we we do ask for those who want to

1:06:17provide testimony at the beginning of of

1:06:18of the hearing and and and we didn't uh

1:06:20we we didn't see you. But given that you

1:06:23are here, um, as long as any board

1:06:24members don't have any objection, um, we

1:06:27will allow you to to hear um to to to to

1:06:31speak. But yes,

1:06:32>> if I may, I think you might want to

1:06:34reopen the hearing just to make sure

1:06:36that

1:06:37>> the hearing wasn't closed yet. Was it

1:06:39>> the test?

1:06:41>> The testimony, but are you providing

1:06:42testimony or are you

1:06:44>> I would I would just like to speak about

1:06:46the situation and the dogs involved.

1:06:50>> Okay. Okay. So, I I guess we'll consider

1:06:51that testimony. So, we're going to have

1:06:52to reopen the the testimony portion of

1:06:55of the hearing. Um, is there uh I

1:06:58entertain a motion to uh open the

1:07:00testimony portion of this reopen the

1:07:02testimony portion of this hearing.

1:07:04>> So, moved.

1:07:05>> Is there a second?

1:07:06>> Second.

1:07:07>> And Carolyn Griffin

1:07:08>> I.

1:07:09>> Carol Westman.

1:07:10>> Car Eric Addison. I serve seaweed

1:07:12testimony.

1:07:14>> All right. My name is Walter Stewart. I

1:07:16live at 39 Potter Farm Road here in

1:07:18Auburn. Um, I have seen Jean in the past

1:07:21walk her dog. Uh, and that dog is always

1:07:23on a leash and is very docile. I have

1:07:26also seen Tuxedo walked in the

1:07:28neighborhood and again always on a leash

1:07:31and under control. But Tuxedo is a

1:07:34bigger dog and I am concerned that if

1:07:38whatever caused him to go off this time

1:07:40were to happen again that she would not

1:07:43be able to control that dog. I've had

1:07:45big dogs before and I know when they get

1:07:47inspired they take off and they are

1:07:50nothing but muscle. Uh I have a dog

1:07:53presently and a 25-lb dog. I walk the

1:07:56dog completely throughout Potter Farm

1:07:59Road at least once a day. Uh I do not

1:08:02take my dog down Pine Valley anymore. I

1:08:05you know I just don't want that

1:08:08happening again. So, my position here is

1:08:12that

1:08:13uh if the dog is going to remain in the

1:08:15neighborhood that it should be muzzled

1:08:18every time it's on a walk, not just if

1:08:21it's going to the nursing home or

1:08:24wherever. If if the dog's on a walk in

1:08:26the neighborhood and it has been, then I

1:08:28would like to support the fact that it

1:08:30be muzzled during those walks.

1:08:34>> Anything further? Okay. Thank you.

1:08:37>> Thank you. um make a motion to close the

1:08:39testimony portion of the hearing. All

1:08:40those in uh well entertain a motion to

1:08:44close the testimony portion of the

1:08:45hearing.

1:08:45>> So moved

1:08:46>> and is there a second?

1:08:47>> Second.

1:08:48>> Carolyn Griffin.

1:08:49>> Hi.

1:08:49>> Carol Westerman.

1:08:50>> Hi.

1:08:50>> Eric

1:08:50>> Addison. I

1:08:52>> All right. So seeing um in hearing now

1:08:55all testimony. Um I would entertain a

1:08:58motion with the following

1:08:59recommendations. Uh based upon the

1:09:02animal control officer uh a secure

1:09:04confinement area. um with a uh locking

1:09:09gates uh potentially with f fencing. Um

1:09:13have that the the dog would be leashed

1:09:15um and under control of an adult over 18

1:09:17years old and properly fitted with a

1:09:20muzzle at all times with all um when off

1:09:22property at 12 Pine Valley Drive. Um

1:09:25he's already microchip identified.

1:09:29um the dog uh remain in compliance with

1:09:31local bylaws and be remained and um be

1:09:35licensed.

1:09:39>> So moved.

1:09:40>> Is there a second?

1:09:41>> Second.

1:09:42>> And all those in favor signify by saying

1:09:44I. Carolyn Griffin

1:09:45>> I.

1:09:45>> Cara Westerman.

1:09:47>> Ericson I.

1:09:49>> Right. I would make a motion now to

1:09:51close the hearing.

1:09:52>> So moved.

1:09:54>> And is there a second?

1:09:55>> So yes. Uh, all those in favor signify

1:09:58by saying I. Carolyn Griffin,

1:10:00>> I.

1:10:00>> Carol Westman. Eric Art. I All right.

1:10:03Thank you all for coming.

1:10:08>> Yeah. We'll we'll have you work with the

1:10:10with the dog officer with with the

1:10:11minutes and all. Okay.

1:10:14>> Thank you.

1:10:18Next um is the renovation for um a

1:10:23grease tank request for Duncan store 386

1:10:27on Southbridge Street.

1:10:34>> We have um representatives here from

1:10:37Duncan Store.

1:10:39Thank um

1:10:44All right.

1:10:50Um, I would entertain a motion to open

1:10:53the hearing uh for the Duncan store um

1:10:56located at 104 um No, sorry. Uh

1:11:02386 South Street. Um

1:11:06>> so moved.

1:11:07>> Is there a second?

1:11:12>> Second. Sorry. Okay. Um, all those in

1:11:14favor signify by saying I. Carolyn

1:11:16Griffin

1:11:16>> I.

1:11:17>> Cara Westerman.

1:11:18>> I.

1:11:18>> Eric Otter. I. The hearing is now open.

1:11:22So, this is a hearing in regards to uh

1:11:25revised kitchen plan um and um a plan

1:11:30review which had come before um the

1:11:33board in regards to a a grease trap

1:11:36issue um or recommendation. The um Miss

1:11:40Brusso, you have um

1:11:41>> uh Yes. So, uh, what I can do is, uh,

1:11:44kind of give you a time frame of how

1:11:46this, uh, came to the board. Uh, just

1:11:49going through, uh, what prompted, uh,

1:11:52this request. Uh so a little over a

1:11:54month ago uh the board uh the health

1:11:57department received a call from the

1:11:59Duncan's uh property management team

1:12:01where they were requesting a uh

1:12:04renovation project and uh inquiring

1:12:06about what the health requirements would

1:12:08be to ensure that the renovation project

1:12:10was done up to the health code

1:12:13standards. Um I provided them uh

1:12:16guidance on a plan review application um

1:12:20and what would be needed uh to complete

1:12:22that application. Um this uh property

1:12:26management team was very motivated. They

1:12:27got it back to us um the very next day

1:12:31uh for where I was able to give them

1:12:33some initial feedback kind of informally

1:12:36uh where there was questions on what

1:12:40their internal and external grease traps

1:12:43are. In typical plan reviews, uh, where

1:12:46there's a new business, uh, restaurant

1:12:48going into an establishment or if

1:12:50there's a change of ownership or if

1:12:52there's a renovation, uh, we typically

1:12:54ask that the, uh, establishment provide

1:12:58inspectional reports or letters um,

1:13:00verifying that equipment is in um, good

1:13:04repair and working order. Uh, our

1:13:06concern specifically was for internal

1:13:08and external grease traps. Um, they were

1:13:11able to provide me a service report uh

1:13:15from Patriot Services indicating that

1:13:17their internal grease trap was recently

1:13:19looked at and serviced and in good

1:13:21repair. Um, the direct quote from this

1:13:24report said, "The interior grease trap

1:13:26at this location is operating properly

1:13:28and in current and currently in good

1:13:30condition." Um, so it was then

1:13:34identified that there was no external

1:13:36grease trap at the property. Um the

1:13:39health department uh provided our local

1:13:42uh board of health regulations

1:13:44identifying whenever there is a change

1:13:46of ownership, a new establishment

1:13:48opening or a renovation of a kitchen

1:13:51area, uh it would be prompted to bring

1:13:53that establishment into current code. Uh

1:13:57this would require an external grease

1:13:59trap. Um,

1:14:01I then offered uh a walkth through to go

1:14:04through the um

1:14:07existing establishment and go over what

1:14:10their proposed changes are for the

1:14:12renovation. Uh, one of their comment my

1:14:15initial again informal comments was uh

1:14:18it looked like they were moving around

1:14:20some of the locations of sinks and there

1:14:22was um a removal of a handsync. they

1:14:25immediately uh revised their site plans

1:14:27and put that handsync back on the plan.

1:14:30So that is still um in good standing

1:14:33with with our uh standards for

1:14:35handsyncs. Um during this walkth through

1:14:39I believe it was June 16th. Um I walked

1:14:44behind it's a there's a three bay sink

1:14:46in the back area prep area and there's a

1:14:49storage closet. you can walk through

1:14:51that storage closet into a basement

1:14:54crawl space area where their internal

1:14:57grease trap is located. Um, for which we

1:15:00were able to see that the internal

1:15:02grease trap was uh leaking and um it it

1:15:07it had seen better days. Uh so I did

1:15:10identify that as a concern uh given the

1:15:12most recent um service report from

1:15:15Patriot Services. Um, verbally the

1:15:18property management team was very um um

1:15:23agreeable and stated that they would re

1:15:25be replacing the internal grease trap.

1:15:28Um,

1:15:30no questions asked. That was that was

1:15:32certainly something that they uh saw the

1:15:35need and immediately made um the the

1:15:38determination on site. Um, I do have a

1:15:41picture that I took on that date um in

1:15:44your packets. Um,

1:15:47since then I have consulted with the

1:15:50sewer uh superintendent and assistant

1:15:52DPW director Pete Maria um who um asked

1:15:58for some initial information um some

1:15:59additional information. I I just

1:16:01received it on Monday. Unfortunately,

1:16:03the sewer sub um superintendent is not

1:16:05in the office right now, so he wasn't

1:16:07able to take a look at it before this

1:16:08meeting. Um he wanted a site plan

1:16:11identifying the sewer lines leaving that

1:16:13property and going to the the sewer main

1:16:16in the street on Southbridge Street. Um

1:16:20and he also wanted to we board of health

1:16:23and sewer wanted to coordinate a site

1:16:25visit to

1:16:27flip the nearest manhole to uh inspect

1:16:31the um what they call a sewer lateral

1:16:33where the sewer main leaves the building

1:16:36to the sewer main to see if there is any

1:16:39um grease, fats um and oils maybe

1:16:43accumulating in that um connection um

1:16:46portion. Uh so that is still pending. We

1:16:49have not done that site visit yet um

1:16:51since there's been some uh time off in

1:16:54various offices. Um I did also speak to

1:16:57the plumbing inspector. Um

1:17:00he did advise part of the um upgrade to

1:17:04the internal grease trap that is needing

1:17:06to be repaired or replaced. Um the

1:17:09question was could they replplum the um

1:17:13plumbing fixtures to go through the

1:17:15internal interceptor and um

1:17:20would that be a sufficient um

1:17:22alternative to requiring the external

1:17:23grease trap? They um provided us an a

1:17:28proposed plan of that revised plumbing.

1:17:30Um the plumbing inspector did confirm

1:17:32that there are um that is allowed per

1:17:35the plumbing code. Um however, he did

1:17:39provide some updates to the plumbing

1:17:40code and stated that um he um

1:17:46it is my opinion that this application

1:17:48should definitely require an external

1:17:49grease trap uh per the plumbing

1:17:51inspector. I have a copy of this email

1:17:53available for for your review as well.

1:17:56Um

1:17:58uh so those are the um

1:18:02that's a summary of the situation. I

1:18:05know Duncan has expressed they're very

1:18:06eager to start this renovation progress.

1:18:09This was a hurdle for them and they did

1:18:12uh delay their initial um anticipated

1:18:15start date to make sure that they were

1:18:17in compliance and um they submitted

1:18:20their variance um or waiver request um

1:18:24during my site visit on June uh 16th

1:18:2917th.

1:18:31what what is the the benefit of an

1:18:34internal versus external grease trap?

1:18:37>> So, typically an internal grease trap is

1:18:40um standard um internal grease traps

1:18:43would be connected only to wearashing

1:18:48um basins like a three-bay sink. Not

1:18:51it's not common but sometimes through a

1:18:53dishwasher. Uh so that doesn't include

1:18:56floor drains, prep sinks, mop sinks,

1:18:59hand sinks, or anything else in that

1:19:01kitchen that might be plumbed going

1:19:03through um to the to the sewer line um

1:19:06main. Um an external grease trap does

1:19:11encompass all plumbing um involved in

1:19:14the kitchen food service areas um and is

1:19:17something that is in the ground in the

1:19:20typically in the parking lot outside and

1:19:22buried in the ground. So, it is a

1:19:24subservice tank. Uh, it's usually a 15

1:19:28to maybe 2,000galon tank. So, it is much

1:19:31larger and um can accommodate larger

1:19:34volumes of of

1:19:37fats, oils, and greases or fogs that may

1:19:40go into the sewer lines to um help

1:19:45eliminate them from the the sewer main.

1:19:48Um

1:19:50internal grease traps may need more

1:19:52frequent servicing and are often again

1:19:55much smaller um

1:19:59to compared to the external grease trap

1:20:01which is often thousands of gallons or

1:20:04at least

1:20:08>> and sir your name.

1:20:10>> Good evening. I'm George Delegas. I'm an

1:20:12architect and I'm also a kitchen

1:20:15designer and uh I work in house for the

1:20:18owner of of the restaurant. Um I and uh

1:20:23I did meet with Jordan as she mentioned.

1:20:25We we we checked out the uh the back

1:20:28rooms and so on. We had a a long

1:20:30conversation regarding the uh the

1:20:32greasing existing grease strap which is

1:20:34not in good condition. Apparently the

1:20:36the service company we use claimed that

1:20:38it's in good condition is not true. So

1:20:41that's correct, which which is why we're

1:20:43proposing replacing it and making some

1:20:45other improvements as well. I I bury a

1:20:48drawing here which is the plumbing

1:20:49drawing that Jordan has electronically.

1:20:51I don't think you're going to be able to

1:20:52see it if I put it up, but I have copies

1:20:54of it.

1:20:55>> I believe we have Is it the same copies

1:20:57that we received in our packet?

1:20:59>> Are these the ones that you sent in to

1:21:00me on Monday?

1:21:02>> One that I sent to you

1:21:03>> on Monday.

1:21:04>> Monday. Correct.

1:21:04>> Uh no, those are not in your packet.

1:21:06This is the uh the plan the renovation

1:21:09plan site plan.

1:21:10>> So what if you can um I mean I'm no

1:21:13expert in in in plans um unless anyone

1:21:16else would want to see them but just uh

1:21:18what are you exactly did just summarize

1:21:20what exactly you're doing to the

1:21:21property.

1:21:22>> Yes. Thank you. Let me kind of start uh

1:21:25go back a little bit in terms of the the

1:21:28uh uh the building itself was initially

1:21:31designed as a Burger King. Uh when the

1:21:34current o owner purchased it about 20

1:21:37years ago, it's been remodeled or

1:21:39renovated twice. Uh uh the store is very

1:21:43big. Nothing that you know we really

1:21:45don't need anything that size. We

1:21:47typically uh uh need something less than

1:21:50half the size. So, it happens to be a

1:21:51big store, but a lot of the space is not

1:21:54really uh useful. I'm just trying to

1:21:57make the point that it's it's a big

1:21:58building, but it's uh it's it's really

1:22:00um it's a Dunkin Donuts that that

1:22:02performance in the way that others do.

1:22:05Um the um reason for the renovation is

1:22:08because every 10 years, uh Duncan

1:22:10requires us to renovate them because

1:22:13they want new finishes. Uh in this case,

1:22:16they have a new layout for the service

1:22:18area. or it's a uh requirement. It's not

1:22:21something that we uh we need to

1:22:23typically do. The equipment, most of it

1:22:26is the same. Um uh the uh the front line

1:22:30does have a a a baker case, which is the

1:22:32new concept versus the donuts in the

1:22:34back. It's in front and and it also has

1:22:37a an A tap system, which is a chilled

1:22:40coffee. Other than that, it really uh

1:22:43it's all the same. meets Duck and Don's

1:22:45coffee

1:22:46and and uh bakery goods. Nothing is is

1:22:50really different. Uh the point that I'm

1:22:52trying to make here is that nothing will

1:22:54change after we renovate the store in

1:22:55terms of having additional customers. Uh

1:22:58it it it's just not going to happen

1:23:00again. We have to make this uh uh this

1:23:03renovation and that's what we're doing.

1:23:06Um the um uh Dunkin Donuts basically uh

1:23:11heats food uh does not cook food. Uh we

1:23:15do have uh uh coffee and we use cream

1:23:18and and and that's a concern. Cream has

1:23:21fat. So I and right now the uh the only

1:23:25thing that is connected to the uh grease

1:23:28uh trap is a three-base sink. That's it.

1:23:31So everything else uh uh goes down the

1:23:34drain. We have a floor uh floor sinks

1:23:37which take the coffee and they take the

1:23:40cream as well and and dumps it into the

1:23:43the sewer. It doesn't go into the the

1:23:46grease uh trap. That's how it is

1:23:49currently. So, and as I uh uh take over

1:23:52the stores and we're renovating, then I

1:23:55discovered all kinds of things I had no

1:23:56idea about and that's what we

1:23:58discovered. and and obviously after our

1:24:01meeting with with um Jordan as well, the

1:24:05the logic thing to do would be not only

1:24:07to replace the existing grease trap

1:24:10inside but and put the three base sink

1:24:12on it but include the floor drains,

1:24:15floor sinks and also the uh a new item

1:24:18we added which is a rinse sink which

1:24:21everything gets dumped into. Uh that

1:24:23will go directly to the grease trap. Um

1:24:26so therefore what we have currently will

1:24:29be sub substantially improved. Nothing's

1:24:31going to go out to the sewer. So the

1:24:33point I'm making is that by making that

1:24:35change we feel that uh it would be more

1:24:38than adequate in taking care of the the

1:24:41grease that is produced. We do have a

1:24:42regular service. So it will be it will

1:24:45continue to be a service regularly.

1:24:47brand new uh um uh uh uh grease tank

1:24:51which is you I mean grease trap is what

1:24:53we we're suggesting

1:24:56uh and again considering the kind of

1:24:59restaurant we are and the fact that

1:25:01we're not really we don't have a grill

1:25:03you know we don't have we don't produce

1:25:05grease the primary thing is really the

1:25:07dairy that uh um uh uh grease or uh that

1:25:12would be uh it needs to be uh taken care

1:25:14of which currently not uh I I guess

1:25:17Jordan, the the uh SW department hasn't

1:25:19yet inspected the connection, the sewer

1:25:21connections. Uh but certainly I'm not

1:25:25sure what they will find, but certainly

1:25:27that will be that the condition will be

1:25:29improved substantially because we're not

1:25:31going to be dumping directly because as

1:25:33you said, the cream the cream goes

1:25:35directly to the shoreline. You will no

1:25:36longer do that. So we are proposing

1:25:39making all these upgrades for the

1:25:41interior grease trap and and asking that

1:25:44that that you wave the requirement of

1:25:46putting in a grease tank outside.

1:25:51Do

1:25:52>> you have an estimated cost on the the

1:25:54what

1:25:54>> the cost? We actually we estimating 15

1:25:57to 20,000 to to do that. It's a major

1:26:00and it's it's a it's a major change. We

1:26:02have to dig you dig a hole, put it in,

1:26:04it'll shut down the drive-thru. It's

1:26:06costly obviously, but uh um yeah, it's

1:26:10not it's not it's not a small expense.

1:26:12The the owner who I work for has about

1:26:14120 stores and I've worked on all of

1:26:16them. I've been with a company uh 12

1:26:20years. Actually, one of the things I I

1:26:22forgot to mention, our construction

1:26:24manager, Angela Simon, is also here. But

1:26:27anyway, um so u and I know there's a

1:26:32uh new regulations. I have not

1:26:34encountered any city of town requiring

1:26:36on an existing donkey don putting in a a

1:26:40new uh putting in a a grease tank. So

1:26:43this is highly unusual with in my

1:26:45experience. I worked in Massachusetts,

1:26:47New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont. It just

1:26:50you know it's just not something that

1:26:51that is commonly asked for on an

1:26:53existing uh restaurant and yeah in this

1:26:56case being a Dunkin Donuts which doesn't

1:26:58really produce uh much grease.

1:27:02How big is the grease trap that is there

1:27:04now that you've agreed that is fall?

1:27:06>> I'm not sure. Probably 40, 50 pounds.

1:27:08I'm not sure. And actually the the sub

1:27:11that I have from the mechan plumbing

1:27:13engineer, I looked it up to see what the

1:27:15capacity is. It talks about the weight

1:27:18of being about 900 lb, but it's not

1:27:20telling me what the capacity is. like we

1:27:22can apparent apparently them they make

1:27:24it 40 50 100 and we can put in whatever

1:27:28whatever uh um you know the board uh you

1:27:30know would like us to do so we have no

1:27:32issue with the size of it but again it

1:27:35is in I have have it actually here in

1:27:37the handout and but I'm not sure uh what

1:27:40it and the model number is there as well

1:27:42I'm not sure what size it is but we're

1:27:44amendable to to putting in a larger size

1:27:47uh whatever is needed

1:27:50Um,

1:27:52now this this grease just so I have this

1:27:55correct this this grease trap is only

1:27:58off of a three-base sink and

1:28:01>> right now it's only the three bay sink.

1:28:03That's where we discovered and and

1:28:04correct. That's all that's all that that

1:28:06is connected to.

1:28:08>> You're proposing now that you're going

1:28:10to replplum everything this into a

1:28:13larger internal.

1:28:14>> Correct. And what we need to do is cut

1:28:16cut open the floors because that's where

1:28:18the floor sinks, floor drains are. So

1:28:20it's a big it's a big expense, a big

1:28:22project, but it is it is important.

1:28:25Yeah, we definitely don't want to be uh

1:28:27um you know dumping uh uh grease down

1:28:31the drain. We inherited this this this

1:28:34building. I'm surprised 10 years ago

1:28:36when it was renovated and 20 years

1:28:39before then that you know I guess there

1:28:41was no requirement. I guess it wasn't

1:28:43necessary even for the Burger King they

1:28:45were cooking. I'm surprised they were

1:28:47they were not required to put in a tank

1:28:49on such a large uh building as well. But

1:28:51anyway, here we are and we're just uh

1:28:54requesting that that you uh wave the uh

1:28:58requirement and we'll make whatever

1:29:01adjustments inside the building uh you

1:29:03would like us to make.

1:29:06>> Great. Well, thank you. Actually,

1:29:10I I do have one one further question.

1:29:12The these renovations um that you're

1:29:14doing, is it like aesthetic renovations

1:29:17or are you are you expanding? Are you

1:29:20putting in more stuff to expand?

1:29:21>> No, as a matter of fact, this a food

1:29:24service facility.

1:29:25>> The service line is exactly the same.

1:29:28We're not changing the size, the shape.

1:29:30As a matter of fact, we're shrinking it

1:29:32because we just don't need it. and and

1:29:34there's an upper there several storage

1:29:36spaces

1:29:38that they're just sitting there. It's

1:29:40just extra space. We're not expanding.

1:29:41We don't need to expand. We're shrinking

1:29:44it actually because it's the whole

1:29:45building is way too big. We even

1:29:47considered tearing it down and building

1:29:48a new one actually uh because it's just

1:29:51not very useful to us in terms of terms

1:29:53of the size that it is. Uh and then the

1:29:56equipment we're not adding anything

1:29:58anything new. Uh but like I said, the

1:30:02concept has changed where the coffee is

1:30:04is in the back as opposed to the front

1:30:07and the baking the bakery cases is in

1:30:10front. So, you know, and I don't know

1:30:11whether you've seen any of the new

1:30:13Duncan that's a new concept.

1:30:15>> U

1:30:17>> and you and just to make sure I

1:30:18understood, you said that nothing's

1:30:20really being cooked there. Um um no, the

1:30:23donuts are delivered all cooked and

1:30:26>> yeah, we we we don't we just heat. I

1:30:28mean I mean everything is seated.

1:30:30>> Uh so anything any pans that we may have

1:30:34I mean there you know donuts have uh

1:30:36have frosting but you it's not really uh

1:30:39uh those are washed in a three bay sink.

1:30:42Uh and that's about it. we really don't

1:30:43have uh uh cooking uh pots and pans and

1:30:47and then the uh and obviously all of the

1:30:49uh the um uh you tell you know that the

1:30:53public uses they're all plastic paper

1:30:55you know so so there's nothing we're not

1:30:57washing anything else.

1:31:00>> Okay.

1:31:02All right. Um

1:31:05any board members have any questions at

1:31:06all?

1:31:11So, I guess when I like review the the

1:31:13the matter here and you you've had the

1:31:15business, it's clear this hasn't, you

1:31:17know, changed um owners at all. Doesn't

1:31:20sound like you're expanding the size of

1:31:22the building or expanding the actually

1:31:24downsizing for what you

1:31:25>> Yeah. Well, actually, we're thinking

1:31:26about tearing down some of it, even

1:31:29cutting it down, but that's not really

1:31:30practical to reduce the size. It's

1:31:33really too big.

1:31:34>> Yeah. Um

1:31:37now the the size so the one that's there

1:31:40is inadequate and it looks small based

1:31:42on my non-professional um assessment of

1:31:45grease traps. It looks small for that

1:31:47type of building. Um the one that you're

1:31:50putting in is is much bigger. you were

1:31:52saying

1:31:54>> which the the the grease strap usually

1:31:57we use I think a 50 gallon most of our

1:31:59stores what I recall and typically when

1:32:02we renovate them we find they're too old

1:32:04or something's wrong with them and we

1:32:06replace them just on the spot we don't

1:32:09really explore them until they we have

1:32:11the the plumber and sort of this

1:32:14standard procedure and we would have

1:32:15done the same with existing mind we

1:32:18wouldn't have connected the other uh the

1:32:20the other plumbing fixtures do it. Uh

1:32:23but but we you know we plan to and we

1:32:25will.

1:32:28As far as the ownership, I think one of

1:32:29the issues came up. The owner of the

1:32:32store is still the same. The operator is

1:32:34still the same. Uh this is a big company

1:32:37and and actually the store still pays

1:32:39rent. He pays to a different owner. Now,

1:32:41how these entities work, I'm not sure,

1:32:44but uh nothing nothing has changed.

1:32:47There's no new owner for the store. uh

1:32:50and and they're paying a rent I think to

1:32:51another entity to another LLC. I'm not

1:32:54sure h how that worked. Uh but there was

1:32:56a purchase of the property which

1:32:58includes the uh retail building in the

1:33:01back. So the whole property was

1:33:02purchased about

1:33:053 four years ago I think.

1:33:09>> Okay, Miss Brusso.

1:33:10>> Yeah, through the um thank you. I just

1:33:12want to make a couple of clarifications.

1:33:14Um they uh Dunkin Donuts has uh been at

1:33:18this location for for several years. Um

1:33:21and this renovation is what is prompting

1:33:24this this requirement for our local uh

1:33:28require um our local uh external grease

1:33:31trap requirement. Um I do want to

1:33:33specify they do have um a menu that has

1:33:38grown extensively. Um they have modified

1:33:40things where

1:33:4215 20 years ago Duncan was um baking

1:33:46their bagels at each store. They were

1:33:48making their donuts in store. They have

1:33:52re consolidated that. So a lot of it is

1:33:54coming in. Um they're not making their

1:33:56bacon um from raw bacon, but they are

1:33:59they do still have a substantial menu

1:34:01where there is a lot of animal byproduct

1:34:04and um as he mentioned the dairy for

1:34:08creamers. um of all kind do have a

1:34:12substantial amount of grease. Um as you

1:34:14can see in the picture, there is a

1:34:16pretty large hue of of grease around the

1:34:19internal grease trap. Um another

1:34:22important consideration to note, the

1:34:24internal grease traps are it's not my

1:34:27code, it is the plumbing code. There is

1:34:30uh a sizing requirement based on what is

1:34:34connected to it. So for this case I it's

1:34:38existing I I don't know but let's just

1:34:40assume the internal grease trap that was

1:34:42installed so many years ago was sized

1:34:46appropriately to the inter the threebase

1:34:49sink that is existing. So they scale the

1:34:52size of those basins to determine what

1:34:55size the internal grace trap is. That's

1:34:56something that a plumber would need to

1:34:58verify. Um, in the email that the

1:35:01plumbing code uh the plumbing inspector

1:35:04emailed, he references the section of

1:35:06the of the plumbing code. Um, we the

1:35:09plumbing inspector would need to review

1:35:11the plans that you sent on Monday to

1:35:13verify um the size of the internal

1:35:17grease trap that is um that would be

1:35:20necessary to add all the extra plumbing

1:35:23fixtures that would need to then be

1:35:24rerouted to this internal grease trap.

1:35:27Um, I'm not too well verssed on sizing

1:35:30and and the plumbing code. So, that

1:35:32would be something I'd need to rely on

1:35:33the plumbing inspector for. Um, and

1:35:36again, the plumbing uh inspector is

1:35:39strongly in favor of the external grease

1:35:41trap. Um, the sewer superintendent is

1:35:43also in uh favor to it. In our eyes,

1:35:47this is an improvement um for for

1:35:50everyone involved for the the town

1:35:52sewer, for the establishment, for the

1:35:54property, and for the health of of the

1:35:57public as well.

1:36:02It's I I was just going to make a

1:36:04comment because it um it's a little

1:36:06concerning that you know that yes, you

1:36:08have internal grease trap, but obviously

1:36:11it wasn't really taken care of and

1:36:14that's a concern for me. Yeah,

1:36:18>> I spoke with the plumbing inspector,

1:36:20correct myself. Uh, and he doesn't have

1:36:22these drawings yet because I wanted you

1:36:24to to to see them and ask him questions

1:36:26such as what should be on the uh, grease

1:36:29trap. Uh, and I said pants sinks. He

1:36:31said no. For example, I just wanted to

1:36:33make sure that that we were covering

1:36:35everything. Obviously, not the toilet,

1:36:37you know, and so on. But I wanted to

1:36:39confirm uh, for example, that the hand

1:36:41sinks did not need to be connected to

1:36:43the to the tank.

1:37:00So, just to so Miss Brusso, are they

1:37:04expanding a food service facility?

1:37:08>> Uh, they wouldn't be expanding. They're

1:37:10not adding any square footage to the

1:37:12establishment, but they are

1:37:13reconfiguring

1:37:14the the um existing

1:37:19they're not making it smaller. And there

1:37:22does show sign of grease leaking into

1:37:24their own plumbing uh due to the

1:37:27internal grease traps condition. And uh

1:37:29the there is a significant reconfiguring

1:37:32of what is existing to the equipment

1:37:35that they have and the layout of their

1:37:38existing

1:37:39>> and and other things are going to be

1:37:41added now to that grease trap that

1:37:44wasn't formal wasn't formally added. The

1:37:47cream and such sounds like and

1:37:50>> uh yes so that would um

1:37:52>> should address that to you probably.

1:37:54Yeah,

1:37:55>> there is uh substantial um it's new

1:37:58equipment um newer equipment uh that

1:38:01they might be e trading out or upgrading

1:38:04um for dairy dispensers, coffee makers

1:38:08um other forms of um

1:38:12hot warmers and uh prep areas. And uh

1:38:17>> so in addition to the cream, there are

1:38:19foods that that have that grease that

1:38:22would

1:38:24That that is correct. They do have um

1:38:27they're not necessarily um like a big

1:38:30example would be uh bacon. They're not

1:38:32cooking their bacon from a raw state

1:38:35where it does produce a significant

1:38:37amount of that's that when it's hot

1:38:41liquid oil, grease, uh lard. They're

1:38:45cook they're receiving their bacon

1:38:47precooked u refrigerated and then

1:38:50they're reheating it. So there is still

1:38:52significant grease. it's just much less.

1:38:54Um, but believe it or not, the the

1:38:56creamers do make a substantial impact on

1:39:00>> along with whatever comes off of the

1:39:01bacon a

1:39:02>> and other animal byproducts such as the

1:39:04cream cheese, the cheeses, the the other

1:39:07animal products that they have.

1:39:11>> Make a comment regarding the the bacon

1:39:13is pre-cooked. You're correct.

1:39:15Apparently, they put it on on a little

1:39:17paper tray and and they toast it. So, so

1:39:21that tray gets thrown away. It does not

1:39:23get washed. So, there's no grease really

1:39:25produced uh uh uh by the bacon itself.

1:39:29Uh in terms of the cream, they've

1:39:31expanded to almond. There's oatmeal and

1:39:35regular. So, I'm not sure how much uh

1:39:38grease uh those other milks have. And

1:39:40this is really one of the changes. And

1:39:42the menu obviously does change and you

1:39:44it has to change, but the but the coffee

1:39:46is the coffee and and uh and and it's

1:39:49pretty much Yeah. And the food changes

1:39:51somewhat, but still the, you know, the

1:39:53bagels are there. They're not producing

1:39:55grease. They come uh pre-cooked to to to

1:39:58a greatest extent. Uh a lot of them

1:40:01actually come frozen. So they put them

1:40:04in the oven to heat them up. So so

1:40:06they're not really cooking. Uh and um

1:40:10but yes, there are changes, you know,

1:40:12many changes as well. Um,

1:40:16>> so if if I heard both of you correctly,

1:40:18so now with this the board of health's

1:40:20food protection uh regulations chapter

1:40:2310 section listed there,

1:40:27it sounds like they're not expanding the

1:40:29food service facility. It sounds like

1:40:31you're reconfiguring.

1:40:33The other question I have for Miss

1:40:35Brusso, it also says in here that um

1:40:41uh and so we know that there's no

1:40:44external um grease interceptor, but it

1:40:48says that they need to submit a letter a

1:40:50written determination from the Auburn

1:40:52Sewer Commissioner as to whether an

1:40:54external grease interceptor will be

1:40:56required. Do we have that?

1:40:58>> No, I did meet with him last week. he

1:41:01was going on a vacation. So, he verbally

1:41:03did say that he was in agreeance that we

1:41:05should have an external grease trap, but

1:41:07I don't have anything in writing from

1:41:08him. Um, this request did come to our

1:41:11office. As far as I'm aware, this was

1:41:13not submitted to the sewer department

1:41:15directly. Um, and I do want to just

1:41:17clarify in our regulation, it does say

1:41:19existing facilities which will be

1:41:21renovated to include or expand for the

1:41:23food service facilities. So, they are

1:41:25doing a substantial renovation.

1:41:28>> Yeah.

1:41:31If I may,

1:41:33>> I believe that the um um designer has

1:41:37submitted plans. Um obviously the the

1:41:40board could take that under

1:41:42consideration for the sewer um sewer

1:41:45superintendent to review um upon his um

1:41:50uh return.

1:41:52>> When when do you when is he coming back,

1:41:54do you think? I'm not sure if it was

1:41:56sometime this week or by the

1:41:58>> It's just like a short typical summer

1:42:00vacation.

1:42:01>> Yes. Gotcha.

1:42:02>> So, you have the option to continue

1:42:04>> for more information.

1:42:07>> Okay.

1:42:09Um, I'd like to make a motion regarding

1:42:14the um

1:42:17request

1:42:18for the waiver for the grease tank to be

1:42:23external or internal to be continued

1:42:27to our next meeting so that we can get

1:42:30information back from the um SOR

1:42:32director

1:42:34reviewing new plans that just came in.

1:42:39I'll second that. And is there a uh

1:42:43>> very much and all those in favor signify

1:42:46by saying I Carolyn Griffin

1:42:48>> I.

1:42:48>> Carol Westerman.

1:42:50>> Eric Hardison I. So it'll be continued

1:42:52until the the sewer commission of Pines

1:42:55and then it'll be taken up by the

1:42:56school.

1:42:57>> Okay. And and if they if they require it

1:42:59then I mean that's

1:43:01>> you need to get some feedback from

1:43:03department. Yeah. But thank you. Jordan

1:43:05has been great at having said that. Very

1:43:07thorough, very professional, and we

1:43:09appreciate it.

1:43:10>> Okay.

1:43:10>> Thank you.

1:43:11>> All right. Thank you very much.

1:43:12>> I would now entertain a motion to close

1:43:13the hearing.

1:43:15>> So, [laughter]

1:43:17>> so moved.

1:43:18>> Um, all those in favor signify by saying

1:43:20I. Carolyn Griffin. I

1:43:21>> Carol Westman. Ericson. I. Hearing is

1:43:23now closed.

1:43:25>> All right.

1:43:26>> Have a good evening.

1:43:26>> Thank you. You're as well.

1:43:29last um for the we have a bunch of

1:43:33hearings now scheduled. I'm going to

1:43:35take these um

1:43:40>> I guess we're going to we're going to

1:43:40take them all separately. Unfortunat um

1:43:42unfortunately there's there's same

1:43:44business multiple violations. Yeah.

1:43:46>> Um, so I will entertain a motion to open

1:43:50up a hearing for um, uh, the tobacco

1:43:54non-payment hearing for the second

1:43:56violation of instate uh, instyle Galaxy

1:43:59Newan 385 Southbridge Street. Is there

1:44:02um,

1:44:03>> yeah,

1:44:04>> so moved.

1:44:05>> Is there a second?

1:44:06>> Second.

1:44:07>> And all those in favor for opening the

1:44:08hearing signify by saying I. Carolyn

1:44:10Griffin.

1:44:10>> I.

1:44:11>> Carol Westerman. I

1:44:12>> Eric Arson I. All right. Hearing is now

1:44:14open. So before the board, um if we

1:44:17remember from last week,

1:44:19um the um the owner of um the uh this

1:44:25InStyle Galaxy at 385 Southbridge

1:44:27Street, um was he that was his second

1:44:30violation and he was issued a

1:44:32responsible finding by the board um

1:44:35under protest and that he also um uh

1:44:39this hearing is to determine whether or

1:44:42not um um if he plans to pay that uh

1:44:47that violation.

1:44:49Um is the the owner is is Mr. um Harry

1:44:54Harani present?

1:44:59Not seeing him in the off um audience

1:45:01not seeing him remotely. Um I find that

1:45:04he I would entertain a motion that he

1:45:06still remains responsible for this. Uh

1:45:09he's not here to offer any any

1:45:10testimony.

1:45:13Um, yeah.

1:45:15>> So moved.

1:45:16>> So moved. Okay. And uh is there a

1:45:18second?

1:45:18>> A second.

1:45:19>> And all those in favor signify by saying

1:45:21I. Carolyn Griffin.

1:45:22>> I.

1:45:22>> Cara Westerman.

1:45:23>> I.

1:45:23>> Rick Oson. I.

1:45:25>> Right. Make entertain a motion to now

1:45:28close the hearing for the second

1:45:31violation. Um, all those in favor of uh

1:45:35Is there a motion?

1:45:37>> It's a move.

1:45:38>> And second.

1:45:40>> I. And all those in favor signify by

1:45:42saying I. Carolyn Griffin

1:45:44>> I.

1:45:44>> Cara Westman.

1:45:45>> I.

1:45:45>> Eric Addison. I.

1:45:47>> Now um and I will now entertain a motion

1:45:50for the same store install Galaxy News

1:45:53Stand 385 South Street um for a hearing

1:45:57for a third violation.

1:46:01>> Um so moved.

1:46:03>> Is there a second?

1:46:04>> Second.

1:46:04>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

1:46:06Carolyn Griffin.

1:46:07>> I.

1:46:08>> Carol Westman.

1:46:08>> Hi.

1:46:09>> Ericson. I hearing is now open.

1:46:12So this is a uh owners to request uh an

1:46:16an appeal for a third violation of an

1:46:18act to modernize the tobacco control um

1:46:21based on 105 CMR 665 um a fine of $5,000

1:46:26and a 30 consecutive business day

1:46:28tobacco permit suspension. Um

1:46:33my my question that I had on this one is

1:46:36he the

1:46:40he had um until June 4th to request a

1:46:44hearing. The email to request the

1:46:46hearing was dated on 6:18

1:46:49and so he he's way past the deadline.

1:46:53Why is this why was this one before the

1:46:55board?

1:46:57Have you he missed the deadline by that

1:46:59much?

1:47:00>> Yeah. So, I can speak to that. Um, so he

1:47:02submitted his request on I believe June

1:47:0422nd. Um, we're passing out these

1:47:06summaries and recommendations to you.

1:47:08Um, we're on to the

1:47:11uh agenda item E for the uh tobacco

1:47:14control third violation. Um

1:47:18so this was a courtesy that the um

1:47:22establishment owner has had expressed

1:47:24during the first meeting that there was

1:47:26concerns with timeliness to the mail and

1:47:29receiving his certified options. So, as

1:47:31a courtesy, uh, the health director and

1:47:34myself, uh, spoke with the tobacco

1:47:37control director and were in agreeance

1:47:39that granting the appeal hearing as a

1:47:42courtesy was, um, something that we

1:47:45could and had the authority to do.

1:47:47>> Okay. So, it was it was done as a

1:47:48courtesy.

1:47:49>> As a courtesy.

1:47:49>> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

1:47:52>> Um,

1:47:53again, uh, gentleman wasn't here a

1:47:55minute ago. However, um, in case he is

1:47:57here again, is Mr. Um Harry Hajani

1:48:01present.

1:48:03I do not see him remotely. There is no

1:48:06one here. There is no one in the waiting

1:48:08room. Um so he and he did request this

1:48:13hearing. Um,

1:48:16based upon that, um, I would, um,

1:48:21entertain a motion to uphold the

1:48:23findings of the order, um, and the

1:48:25retailer to pay $5,000

1:48:28and issue a 30-day suspension. Um,

1:48:32with um, now I I don't know when when

1:48:35the be.

1:48:36>> So, uh, if I could offer, um, we do have

1:48:39the, um, tobacco alliance uh,

1:48:42administrator here. um if we could have

1:48:45her input as to when these uh dates

1:48:47would be identified um we would rely on

1:48:51them to

1:48:53assist with this.

1:48:53>> Okay.

1:48:55>> And ma'am you can just state your name,

1:48:56your title and um when you think these

1:48:59dates would be applicable. Sure.

1:49:02>> Joan Hamlet, director of the boards of

1:49:04health tobacco control alliance and I'm

1:49:05also a tobacco control agent for the

1:49:08town of Auburn. Um what we would

1:49:11recommend usually for a 30-day we start

1:49:12on the first of the month to keep it

1:49:14simple. So we would recommend a

1:49:15September 1st through September 30th

1:49:18date. Um it's toward the end of the

1:49:20month. We still have to give a hearing

1:49:22outcome notice and written notice for

1:49:24them and to prepare for a 30-day permit

1:49:27suspension. They would need to, you

1:49:30know, figure out legally where they can

1:49:31move their product and get their product

1:49:33out of the store. Um so we would

1:49:35recommend a September 1st

1:49:38through September 30th date.

1:49:44>> Um All right. So then uh I will um so

1:49:48keeping with my um original motion. So

1:49:50so entertain a motion for um the fi to

1:49:54uphold the findings of the order um and

1:49:56the retailer to um to pay $5,000 fine

1:50:0030-day suspension. those dates to be

1:50:02September 1st through September 30th.

1:50:05>> So moved.

1:50:06>> Is there a second?

1:50:07>> Yes, I second.

1:50:09>> And all those in favor signify by saying

1:50:11I. Carolyn Griffin.

1:50:12>> I.

1:50:13>> Car Westman.

1:50:14>> I.

1:50:14>> Eric Art. I.

1:50:16>> All right. Um

1:50:18I would now entertain a motion to close

1:50:20the hearing for the third violation.

1:50:23>> So motion.

1:50:24>> And is there a second?

1:50:25>> Second.

1:50:25>> And all those in favor signify by saying

1:50:27I. Eric Artison. I. Carolyn Griffin.

1:50:30>> I. Carol Westerman. I

1:50:32>> I will now entertain a motion for the

1:50:34same business

1:50:36uh open a hearing for to hear uh

1:50:38evidence regarding the fourth violation

1:50:41um for this business and is uh yes

1:50:45entertain that motion to open the

1:50:46hearing.

1:50:46>> So moved.

1:50:47>> Is there a second?

1:50:49>> And all those in favor signify by saying

1:50:51I. Carolyn Griffin.

1:50:52>> Hi.

1:50:52>> Cara Westman. I

1:50:53>> Eric Art I. So before us is a um owner's

1:50:57request for another hearing um for

1:51:00permit revocation review. Um the way I

1:51:03understand it is um we have a

1:51:07non-payment of a second violation that

1:51:10he hasn't paid. We have a third

1:51:12violation where we have now suspend. He

1:51:15has to pay and that's an additional

1:51:17$5,000

1:51:19or what was this is an additional

1:51:20>> Yeah, it's a for this violation it's

1:51:22it's completely separate. So, we're

1:51:24we're having he requested an appeal

1:51:26hearing first. We would only have a

1:51:28revocation go on to the revocation

1:51:30portion of the hearing if you find him

1:51:32not um if you find him responsible for

1:51:35this fourth violation. So, for this

1:51:37fourth violation, it's another um $5,000

1:51:41fine, but because at the fourth re, it's

1:51:44a revocation hearing, but he requested

1:51:46an appeal before the revocation hearing.

1:51:48So, it's a combined um so you would your

1:51:51options are to to find him responsible

1:51:54for the $5,000 and you can either give

1:51:57him another 30-day suspension and a

1:51:59chance and continue the revocation

1:52:02without a finding as long as there's no

1:52:04other violation in 36 months or you can

1:52:06move right into not give that one more

1:52:09last chance and you can go right into a

1:52:10permanent permit revocation for

1:52:12excessive non-compliance.

1:52:13>> I mean, just I'm sorry just to be clear.

1:52:16So, it's it's a two-part. So, if the

1:52:19board is going to find uh the retailer

1:52:23responsible for that fourth violation,

1:52:26then you would make the determination on

1:52:28that. And then your options are for the

1:52:32$5,000

1:52:34that comes with the the the fine comes

1:52:36with that violation and either the 30

1:52:39days or if you are choosing a tobacco

1:52:43permit

1:52:46revocation. So he he doesn't keep his

1:52:49tobacco permit. So those are the

1:52:51options. Correct Joan?

1:52:52>> Correct.

1:52:52>> And revocation is permanent.

1:52:54>> Is permanent. and it doesn't stop him

1:52:57from annually asking the board to

1:52:58reconsider, but it is it's considered

1:53:01permanent.

1:53:02>> I I have an issue with the fact that

1:53:03he's requested this and

1:53:07you in in the spirit of cooperation

1:53:10allowed this and he's not here.

1:53:16>> So, if I if I could speak to that. Um so

1:53:19we have um obviously uh three separate

1:53:23hearings here that uh we wanted to um

1:53:27provide this process um and provide to

1:53:31the board all the information that you

1:53:34are um that you need in order to make an

1:53:37informed decision. So we did do that. Um

1:53:40we have um notified Mr. Harjani um the

1:53:45uh business owner um properly. We've

1:53:48done certified in regular mail. We have

1:53:50proof of that. Um and

1:53:54obviously this um this meeting was set

1:53:57um several weeks ago. Um Mr. Hajjani uh

1:54:02did reach out um over this past weekend

1:54:06um asking for um uh asking for us to um

1:54:13>> 45day stay.

1:54:15>> 45 day stay. And I'm sure Miss Hamlet um

1:54:19can speak to that um that request. Uh we

1:54:23have sent that to town council. Town

1:54:25council advised that we can move forward

1:54:27with these hearings which is why they

1:54:29are before you. Um so Mr. Harajani has

1:54:31been notified that we were moving

1:54:34forward um with this meeting tonight in

1:54:38these hearings.

1:54:40>> Now I just a a question on the process

1:54:43because I know that was in dispute. Um

1:54:46there was disputes about uh the first uh

1:54:49evening that he had said um that um you

1:54:53know there was no evidence in it but we

1:54:54we we've saw that.

1:54:56>> Um during that first hearing um he also

1:55:00made allegations that he was being uh

1:55:02targeted or picked on. And at that time

1:55:06we determined that you had done every

1:55:09business that day and we got him to

1:55:12agree that that was not the case that he

1:55:14was singled out.

1:55:16>> Just walk me through exactly how the

1:55:19third and fourth. Now I understand the

1:55:22first second um that's why he he was

1:55:25here the first time when we told but now

1:55:26the the third and the fourth um walk me

1:55:29how walk me through what what made you

1:55:32do the third and fourth and then um your

1:55:36your your usual and customary practices

1:55:39with with these types of investigations.

1:55:41>> Okay. Um so the third vi violation

1:55:45occurred because his second violation he

1:55:48he had a permit suspension.

1:55:51Um for the second second violation

1:55:55>> there's only a hearing if the retailer

1:55:56wants one. So if the retailer is willing

1:55:58to pay the fine and move forward with a

1:56:00permit suspension there's no hearing. He

1:56:02did not notify, we did not have um

1:56:06apparently he sent an email that the

1:56:08board was not aware of requesting a

1:56:11hearing. So when we showed up on May 1st

1:56:14for his his permit suspension, which a

1:56:17couple other retailers had them, we

1:56:19inspected his store and he was um he

1:56:23still had products out for sale and the

1:56:25clerk called him on the phone. Jody

1:56:27called me on the phone who conducted the

1:56:30inspection and he said his claim was

1:56:33that he had requested a hearing and that

1:56:37he it was his understanding it's lifted

1:56:40until somebody notifies him of the

1:56:41hearing date which is actually the

1:56:43process that the day before we had

1:56:46contacted the office and he had they

1:56:48didn't have knowledge of him asking it

1:56:50when he he got his uh manager on the

1:56:53phone and they emailed us right away

1:56:55while Jod was still in the store um

1:56:57forwarded it and it it was sent to

1:56:59Jordan and CCD and everything and we

1:57:02forwarded it to uh Jordan and Darlene

1:57:04and they confirmed okay we we missed

1:57:05this so we will give you a hearing. So

1:57:08while we were in the store, we said,

1:57:09"Okay, no, you you don't have to do

1:57:10anything. You're going to get your

1:57:12hearing. You don't have to do anything

1:57:13to the hearing." And then that's what

1:57:14happened. In the meantime, Jod was

1:57:17present in the store and on the shelves

1:57:18and it was not a retail inspection where

1:57:20we check everything. Right out on the

1:57:22shelves was non-compliant products that

1:57:24conflict and were violation of the state

1:57:26law. So while I was on the phone, Jody

1:57:29said, "This is what I found in the

1:57:30store." And I explained to him and his

1:57:32business manager that these are

1:57:34violations. These are products that

1:57:36you're not allowed to have. You We have

1:57:38educational sheets that we give you the

1:57:40packet every year, went over it with

1:57:42you. We had your staff sign for them. We

1:57:44were had inspected your store previously

1:57:46and these products weren't here, but

1:57:48these products are flavored and they're

1:57:50illegal. We're going to have to move

1:57:51forward. You know, we were here because

1:57:53we thought we were here for a permit

1:57:54suspension.

1:57:55>> So, it non-compliance.

1:57:58>> Yeah. So, it would have

1:57:59>> That's the third one.

1:58:01>> So, that was the third violation on May

1:58:021st. We were there for a permit

1:58:04suspension check.

1:58:08And then for the fourth violation,

1:58:11um we were doing a um reinspection. Um

1:58:15anybody who's had a violation of the

1:58:17state law has to be reinspected by the

1:58:18end of the fiscal year. So on June 12th,

1:58:21which was, you know, almost six six and

1:58:23a half weeks later.

1:58:26>> If you could come up here.

1:58:27>> Yeah.

1:58:29>> And can I ask you something? So when you

1:58:31said he had the flavor products on the

1:58:33shelf, if he had never had any

1:58:35violations or anything and you just

1:58:36walked in there doing inspection and

1:58:38seeing that it would have been a

1:58:40violation regardless. So okay, I just

1:58:42want to make sure.

1:58:43>> Um these are the pictures of what was

1:58:45found color pictures and we brought a

1:58:48packet for everybody. The these are the

1:58:51products that are

1:58:52>> that was from June 12th when

1:58:54>> Oh my Jordan and Tim accompanied

1:58:58>> I'm sorry. This is the one from the

1:58:59third.

1:59:01Um,

1:59:05>> so the fourth one was during a you went

1:59:08back

1:59:08>> for the fourth one

1:59:10>> to check again and this fourth one was

1:59:12found.

1:59:13>> Correct.

1:59:14>> If I may through the chair. Um, this was

1:59:17cor this was following our June 1st

1:59:20board of health hearing where we did

1:59:21find him responsible. We set the 7-day

1:59:23suspension. This was the initial start

1:59:26of that 7-day suspension where we go

1:59:28there, the products were still available

1:59:30and there were products in violation

1:59:34>> as seen in this picture.

1:59:35>> So the these are the the when Jod went

1:59:38there for the permit suspension have to

1:59:41microphone please.

1:59:43Hey,

1:59:44>> when Jodie went to the permit suspension

1:59:46[clears throat]

1:59:47inspection, this is what she could

1:59:49visibly see from beh without researching

1:59:51looking just as you know on the other

1:59:53side of the counter. These were the

1:59:55products. We did not search the store

1:59:56further.

1:59:58>> Um because there's enough here. There's

2:00:00several violations here to constitute a

2:00:02state violation. So

2:00:03>> um and she wasn't there for a whole

2:00:06store check.

2:00:08>> So [clears throat] we got on the phone

2:00:09and said, "Okay, so we want to let you

2:00:10know these need to be removed. they need

2:00:12to be gone. I spoke to him directly. Um

2:00:14it does constitute another violation. We

2:00:17don't have the choice to not move

2:00:19forward with the violation

2:00:20>> and um you know we went over everything

2:00:23at great lengthy conversation um that we

2:00:26had with the four of us on the phone. We

2:00:28had contacted Darlene and Jordan

2:00:29immediately after went over everything

2:00:31that had happened. Move forward with the

2:00:33violation.

2:00:37>> Again timelines with me. So we have so

2:00:40the second violation we we I understand

2:00:43that like he requested um the he was

2:00:46aware of this of the of the two days

2:00:49suspension at that time

2:00:51>> correct

2:00:52>> seven days

2:00:52>> seven oh that's right seven days because

2:00:54we had issued that at that meeting and

2:00:56he was present here for that

2:00:58>> at June 1st meeting

2:00:59>> June 1st meeting so he was aware that he

2:01:02was supposed to be of the dates of the

2:01:04suspension

2:01:05during the time of that suspension

2:01:09order. You visited the store and found

2:01:11him in non-compliance.

2:01:12>> So on June June 12th, I was completing

2:01:17the permit suspension and Jordan and Tim

2:01:20came with me for that. And when I walked

2:01:23into the store, I immediately saw a

2:01:25flavored product on the shelf underneath

2:01:28the counter. That was that was the

2:01:29backwards white underneath the counter

2:01:32because we need to check to make sure

2:01:34that there's no product within the

2:01:36service area. Um, and so underneath the

2:01:39counter there were um an open carton of

2:01:43Newport non- menthol

2:01:45cigarettes and a a carton of Newport

2:01:48non- menthol that was sealed. And there

2:01:51were also sleeves of um nicotine

2:01:55pouches.

2:01:57So the humidor was also not covered.

2:02:01That needs to be um obscured from public

2:02:03view. So So that was not covered. And

2:02:07then in the back storage area,

2:02:10we found a bag of the flavored hemp

2:02:13wraps from the previous violation that

2:02:17were just in the back storage area. And

2:02:19then the boxes of the products were

2:02:23accessible to a clerk. So a clerk could

2:02:25have just not saying that they would,

2:02:27but they were accessible to a clerk.

2:02:30They weren't sealed or anything. Mhm.

2:02:33>> So

2:02:35we So he was at What were the dates of

2:02:37the uh suspension?

2:02:40>> It was a 7 day. So the the permit

2:02:43suspension was starting on uh June 12th.

2:02:47>> June.

2:02:48>> June 12th. And then you arrived at the

2:02:51store when?

2:02:52>> On June 12th.

2:02:53>> You went on June 12th. Okay. So you you

2:02:55were there. Excuse me.

2:02:58>> So you were there on June 12th. He was

2:03:00aware of the suspension on June 12th and

2:03:03you went there to make sure that he was

2:03:05in compliance with that. He was not.

2:03:08>> And then that promulgated the third

2:03:10violation.

2:03:12>> That was the fourth.

2:03:13>> That's the fourth.

2:03:14>> That's the fourth.

2:03:16It was in partial compliance because

2:03:18stuff was boxed in the back and then the

2:03:21stuff was stuffed under the counter, but

2:03:23nothing all the instructions were given

2:03:25to him that no tobacco product could be

2:03:27in the service area and it had to be in

2:03:29secured boxes and either locked or

2:03:32secured boxes so staff wouldn't have

2:03:34access to it. So when Jody and Jordan

2:03:37and Darlene got there, they were working

2:03:40with him to he was the the store Jod

2:03:44said it was the store manager said he

2:03:45was willing to move remove the products.

2:03:47So they ended up becoming in compliance.

2:03:49They were in partial compliance and then

2:03:51they became in compliance because they

2:03:52removed all the products from the store

2:03:54and the following Tuesday it was checked

2:03:56by a secret shopper and adult secret

2:03:58shopper and they weren't selling.

2:04:00>> So we believe we only checked that one

2:04:02Tuesday. We believe they complied with

2:04:04the permit suspension. They just didn't

2:04:06pay the the their $2,000 fine. That

2:04:11that's what led to the two the

2:04:13non-payment hearing, but then we had to

2:04:16write the fourth violation because at a

2:04:17permit suspension

2:04:20inspection, we found all the flavored

2:04:23products because the law says they can't

2:04:25be on your premises. They have to be

2:04:26completely removed. if they're found

2:04:28anywhere in a floorboard, a locked

2:04:30cabinet door, a closet, they're presumed

2:04:32for sale if they're in the on the

2:04:34premises of the building.

2:04:37So, that's what constituted the fourth

2:04:39violation.

2:04:42So I I guess what what I'm getting I I

2:04:45want to make sure that we're not in like

2:04:47a double jeopardy type of situation here

2:04:49where

2:04:51and again he's not here but if you know

2:04:54we've given so the second violation that

2:04:57was for a

2:05:007-day suspension.

2:05:01>> Okay.

2:05:02>> So that 7-day suspension was when again

2:05:05I get these dates down. So, uh, the

2:05:06chair, just to clarify, so that second

2:05:09violation occurred on March 28th. The

2:05:12order letter was sent out on April 8th,

2:05:15and the original suspension date was for

2:05:18May 1st. So, that is automatically

2:05:22determined in their enforcement letters,

2:05:24and they g they mailed that out on April

2:05:268th.

2:05:28>> So, then his permit was suspended from

2:05:31May 1st to May 7th

2:05:33>> initially.

2:05:34>> Okay. But so that was because that was

2:05:36the So second violation was the fine and

2:05:38the suspension.

2:05:39>> Yes.

2:05:40>> Okay. Now let's go to the third

2:05:42violation.

2:05:44So I guess so back so the second

2:05:45violation did you go to the store during

2:05:48that time period to make sure that they

2:05:50were in compliance on those seven days?

2:05:52>> So the March I mean I'm sorry the May

2:05:541st was the the day one of the permit

2:05:58suspension. But this is where there was

2:06:00some confusion because I guess he had

2:06:02requested

2:06:04>> to have um a hearing and so I showed up

2:06:08unaware

2:06:09of that request and that's when I saw

2:06:11the flavored products on the shelf.

2:06:15>> We checked with your office and he

2:06:17hadn't to everybody's knowledge he

2:06:19hadn't request it but there was an email

2:06:22and he sent us the email while we were

2:06:24on the phone with him. We contacted

2:06:26Jordan and Darlene and they did find the

2:06:28request. He did send it in in a timely

2:06:30manner. So if we had known that, we

2:06:32never would have discovered these

2:06:34products. We went there because we it

2:06:35was unknown to us that he requested a

2:06:37hearing in a timely manner.

2:06:39>> Okay.

2:06:40>> And we found him in non-compliance for

2:06:42another reason. But Chris um is here and

2:06:46he can speak to that why it wouldn't be

2:06:48double jeopardy.

2:06:52>> I I guess I'm I'm confused of like the

2:06:55dates. There was a meeting, there wasn't

2:06:56a meeting, something got missed. I I

2:06:58want to make sure that we're not

2:07:00>> so

2:07:00>> it is

2:07:02>> so the April 8th order it if you look at

2:07:05the packets where they specify the

2:07:07boards of health tobacco control

2:07:09alliance the April 8th order is it's two

2:07:12letters in one. So, the second letter

2:07:15specifies the all predetermined sus

2:07:187-day suspension because that appeal

2:07:22fell through the radar and was not known

2:07:24to us and or to the Lemonster tobacco

2:07:27agents. They were

2:07:30they went to fulfill that 7-day

2:07:33suspension without knowing of this

2:07:35appeal. So, in that appeal or in that

2:07:39initial site visit to start their

2:07:41suspension, they found a flavor

2:07:44violation

2:07:44>> and yeah and I get it and he's saying

2:07:46well that wouldn't have happened if you

2:07:48hadn't come but it's kind of like if a

2:07:50tree falls in the woods make noise I

2:07:52mean it's still a violation how

2:07:55>> so then we honored his request and put

2:07:58him on for an appeal

2:08:00>> and then um we had the meeting scheduled

2:08:03June 1st which we went through so it is

2:08:06it is confusing and I can appreciate the

2:08:10board um asking these questions because

2:08:13quite honestly it is it's backto back

2:08:17violations within over like the past 3

2:08:20months and while they're there to check

2:08:25for um this the to make sure the um

2:08:297-day suspension is happening they're

2:08:31finding other products and it's going on

2:08:34like that. So if it is

2:08:38difficult to follow but that's why we

2:08:41wanted to have this as a public process

2:08:44separate hearings and if the board had

2:08:47has any concerns at all that they want

2:08:50to give the retailer another chance. I

2:08:54mean that is why we're here to discuss

2:08:57this with the tobacco alliance to

2:08:59identify what they do um and how we move

2:09:03forward. I do wish the retailer was here

2:09:07um because this is his chance to to

2:09:10provide his input on what's happened.

2:09:14And

2:09:16I mean, you know, the the thing here

2:09:19about the um

2:09:21that there was a notice and then like

2:09:24physically couldn't a parent drafting on

2:09:27June 12th. Um, but that is in the

2:09:32board's latest correspondence, but that

2:09:35that those dates really are correct. I

2:09:37mean, right. Yeah, it's

2:09:40>> so that June 12th

2:09:42>> was that day

2:09:43>> was that fourth violation, but it was

2:09:45the suspension honoring the 7-day

2:09:48suspension from the second.

2:09:49>> It's just Yeah. Like how

2:09:52>> I got you. He had six weeks to remove

2:09:54his illegal products from the store and

2:09:56didn't prior to and he knew we were

2:09:59coming for that permit suspension.

2:10:04>> He had advanced notice that we gave him

2:10:06a courtesy call. We told him we were

2:10:08coming,

2:10:08>> gave him instructions of what he needed

2:10:10to do for that.

2:10:11>> Well, so he it really wasn't a surprise

2:10:13that

2:10:13>> Yeah. So, it it's there's a a history

2:10:16here of just not complying with laws

2:10:19that he's been educated on. And what we

2:10:22do have for the board is three points of

2:10:25education just in the past year prior to

2:10:27these violations where he signed

2:10:31[clears throat] signed his staff signed

2:10:34we hand delivered the it's usually 14 to

2:10:3718 pages a year our annual package we

2:10:39hand um delivered them and somebody from

2:10:42the store signs that they received them.

2:10:44So we have three in the last um two in

2:10:482025 um and one in 2026 for FY26 prior

2:10:54to these violations. So extensive

2:10:57education with every retailer in Auburn

2:11:00and I've been doing this for 33 years

2:11:03and I have 46 communities over 500

2:11:05retailers. We have never seen anything

2:11:08like this. This is a first um for us to

2:11:10have each reinspection we're finding a

2:11:13new violation or each reason where they

2:11:15are legitimately for you know it's not

2:11:17targeting this happened we have to go

2:11:20now another violation happened we have

2:11:22to go there's a permit suspension we

2:11:24have to go

2:11:24>> help help me understand just because I

2:11:26want to make sure I understand the

2:11:28process so those packets that you have

2:11:30signed off by his

2:11:33staff acknowledges the fact that you

2:11:36gave them the educational resources to

2:11:38rectify the situation. Correct.

2:11:40>> Yes. I did not provide the whole entire

2:11:41packet. I provided the education where

2:11:44he was in violation.

2:11:46>> And there's three sheets three different

2:11:49um times of the year.

2:11:52>> So,

2:11:55where I'm getting hung up on this is he

2:11:58did request

2:12:00a hearing.

2:12:04How did how did we miss this email that

2:12:07he requested a hearing?

2:12:11>> So, unfortunately, we did we did miss

2:12:14that request that he sent. Um, I have to

2:12:18take responsibility of it. Um, I think

2:12:21the email went to the tobacco control.

2:12:24It went to myself. Um, and we missed

2:12:29that first request. When it was

2:12:32discovered, we said, "Okay, we need to

2:12:35set we need to set this retailer up for

2:12:39a um uh the request that they're asking

2:12:43for um to appeal it." And so we went

2:12:47through that proper process. Um, and

2:12:49that is the meeting that we set for

2:12:51June. Um at that last meeting uh June

2:12:551st we did do that appeal um I think you

2:12:58do um recall uh Mr. Harjani had at that

2:13:04time he brought in uh a similar request,

2:13:07an omnibus request um stating that he um

2:13:14he felt that his store was targeted um

2:13:18for this type of um action. Um he

2:13:23questioned the inspection of it being

2:13:27valid. He questioned were their um valid

2:13:31inspectors and was the um was the

2:13:34product and the sale valid. So he had

2:13:38many

2:13:40many um concerns uh that you heard at

2:13:44that meeting.

2:13:44>> So although the email was missed he

2:13:47still had he still had the opportunity

2:13:49you re reached out and he still had the

2:13:51opportunity that he attended that

2:13:52meeting.

2:13:53>> Right. So we

2:13:54>> he would

2:13:54>> right. So for the June um the June

2:13:58meeting um that was his appeal. Uh so it

2:14:02was missed on email. However, it was

2:14:06delayed but he did get the um the appeal

2:14:10hearing.

2:14:13>> He received his due process.

2:14:18>> We just dealt with third violation this

2:14:20seat. Correct.

2:14:24I believe you've closed that hearing.

2:14:26Yes.

2:14:30>> So the third and the third violation and

2:14:32the fourth violation he hasn't had a

2:14:34hearing for.

2:14:36>> He requested an appeal hearing on the

2:14:38third and for the fourth it's an

2:14:39automatic revocation hearing but he

2:14:42exercised his right to ask for an appeal

2:14:44first. So that's why it's a dual hearing

2:14:48because on the fourth violation, the

2:14:50state law requires the board to review

2:14:52them to, you know, for permit

2:14:54revocation. Um, doesn't mean you have

2:14:56to, but it's just required to hold that

2:14:58hearing. So when he got the notice that

2:15:00there was a rev that there'd be a

2:15:02revocation hearing, he exercised his

2:15:04right and asked for an appeal. But he

2:15:05did ask for an appeal. It's my

2:15:07understanding that um he had

2:15:09communication with your office that by

2:15:11phone and email he could be here. And

2:15:13then late Sunday night, the your agents

2:15:17found an email from him that they opened

2:15:19Monday morning asking for a 45 onbous

2:15:23stay of appeals. Doesn't apply. It's not

2:15:26the procedure. It doesn't apply. Um

2:15:29Chris reviewed a copy of that letter. I

2:15:31reviewed it. Um everybody reviewed it

2:15:33and it was left up to your office if you

2:15:35wanted to um you know delay this. We

2:15:40recommended not delaying it because he

2:15:42requested the hearing. He confirmed he

2:15:44could be here and then in the 9inth hour

2:15:47was, you know, making demands for things

2:15:49that don't apply to the hearing process

2:15:51and looking for evidence that doesn't

2:15:53exist um and whatnot.

2:15:54>> And was that for the third violation?

2:15:57No, that was this was just this past

2:15:59Monday that he sent that for the

2:16:01>> what you had just said when he was here

2:16:03present that that the last time that we

2:16:06met with him and he was asking for

2:16:08>> that was on the second violation.

2:16:09>> That was for the second violation.

2:16:11>> You did not ask for um he asked for an

2:16:14appeal on the third. He asked for an

2:16:16appeal on the third two weeks late

2:16:19>> and that that was granted for tonight.

2:16:21He didn't show and you closed it and

2:16:22found him responsible. And now for the

2:16:24fourth, he also asked for an appeal and

2:16:27he's still not here.

2:16:30>> So this evening we took up a third

2:16:34violation.

2:16:35What was the date of that third

2:16:37violation?

2:16:38>> May 1st.

2:16:39>> May 1st.

2:16:41Okay.

2:16:44He had requested

2:16:47um that he wanted a he he wanted he

2:16:52requested at a hearing to so that he

2:16:54would not be on suspension from May from

2:16:56May 1 to May 7. Correct.

2:16:59>> That was

2:17:00>> No, that was the that was his first

2:17:0130-day. He would he would have been on

2:17:03suspension for um July 1st to June July

2:17:0830 30th,

2:17:10but he he requested the third and the

2:17:12fourth

2:17:14>> the he requested the third one late and

2:17:16the fourth one on time.

2:17:18>> So we honored combined them into this

2:17:20meeting,

2:17:20>> but he didn't request the third one late

2:17:22because we did find

2:17:24>> the third violation. What? I I want to I

2:17:27want I'm sorry if I mean

2:17:30>> I really want to make sure that we're

2:17:31not that we're getting this correct

2:17:33>> for him, but he he was not late on

2:17:35requesting that. He did request it. We

2:17:37didn't see it.

2:17:38>> No, that was his second violation. That

2:17:40was his second violation for the youth

2:17:42sale

2:17:43>> that you had the previous meeting.

2:17:45>> Okay. The third violation he requested

2:17:48two weeks late and then also put a

2:17:51request for the fourth and your office

2:17:53decided to move forward and let him be

2:17:56heard on both.

2:17:59>> I'm under the impression that for the

2:18:01third violation

2:18:03he he did meet it on time. That was the

2:18:06one and I just asked this question. That

2:18:08was the one that he sent in because we

2:18:13we talk about it here. It says the

2:18:14holiday was marked. it was done late,

2:18:16all this other stuff. When in fact, we

2:18:17found it and it was not late.

2:18:20>> That was for the second violation of

2:18:23March his youth sale on March 28th,

2:18:252026. That was for your hearing that he

2:18:28was granted. This occurred after that.

2:18:33This violation was in process. It was

2:18:35not discussed at your last meeting.

2:18:37That's why he asked an for an appeal.

2:18:40And um he did ask for it two two weeks

2:18:43late. and it's up to the discretion of

2:18:44your office and your board if you're

2:18:46going to allow him to have that appeal.

2:18:49And they told us, you know, we were

2:18:51informed that there was going to be a

2:18:53third and a fourth.

2:18:54>> So the appeal is for today for number

2:18:56three and four.

2:18:58>> Yes.

2:18:58>> This board, this has never come before

2:19:00this board yet

2:19:01>> and she failed to show for number three

2:19:03and number four.

2:19:04>> The hearing he requested

2:19:08>> and you were going to explain to us why

2:19:11it's not double jeopardy. the issue of

2:19:13finding the flavored tobacco on the day

2:19:16that she showed up.

2:19:18>> Yeah, absolutely. So, upon a violation,

2:19:21a reinspection, as Joan said, is

2:19:23required.

2:19:25And even with if someone requests an

2:19:28appeal, they still need to comply with

2:19:30the law.

2:19:32>> So, it doesn't freeze everything.

2:19:34>> Yes.

2:19:34>> So, they're still responsible for

2:19:36removing the product. Mhm.

2:19:38>> So my understanding is with the second

2:19:41violation [bell] failed to youth in

2:19:44March, he had a full hearing on that

2:19:47>> and you determined in a meeting I think

2:19:49I was here that he was responsible.

2:19:52Now tonight it's just the third and

2:19:54fourth

2:19:56um violations before you. So that those

2:19:58are the ones we're hearing tonight. But

2:20:00it is not double jeopardy.

2:20:03>> He should have been following that

2:20:04regardless of anything.

2:20:05>> Yes. can't suspend. Um it does not allow

2:20:09him to violate the law. He doesn't have

2:20:12some sort of protection in that regard.

2:20:14Um

2:20:15>> and would double jeopardy be you charged

2:20:17them for the same incident twice? That

2:20:20is that what double

2:20:22>> double jeopardy is? You can't you can't

2:20:25um

2:20:27you can't hold them responsible for

2:20:29something that they were found not

2:20:31liable for.

2:20:32>> Right. So it doesn't apply in the third

2:20:34employ violation. But I understand the

2:20:36question, you know, what does does he

2:20:39get a pass

2:20:41if he requests a hearing? Does it does

2:20:44it somehow insulate

2:20:47uh someone from further inspections? It

2:20:50does not. Inspections can continue after

2:20:53that.

2:20:56>> So, has he served a 30-day suspension

2:20:58yet?

2:20:58>> No, because he asked for an appeal. And

2:21:01so he hasn't served the 30-day and he

2:21:03hasn't served and he hasn't paid the

2:21:04$5,000.

2:21:06>> And you already found him responsible

2:21:08for it to be reissued

2:21:10>> tonight. But the third one we have

2:21:12>> So he has a 30-day that he has to serve

2:21:14now. Okay. Um and now we're on So that

2:21:19that hearing was was was since closed.

2:21:21So right now tonight we voted that he

2:21:24has a $5,000 fine and then now a 30-day

2:21:27suspension. Mhm.

2:21:28>> Um and that's on and Okay. So now on for

2:21:32the fourth violation this evening before

2:21:34us is

2:21:38another 5,000 30-day or complete

2:21:41revocation.

2:21:42>> Correct.

2:21:43>> Okay.

2:21:44>> Correct.

2:21:49>> I'm I'm still not able to wrap my head

2:21:50around this and I I don't want to hold

2:21:52this up all night. This is messy. I'm

2:21:54sorry.

2:21:54>> Sure. If if I may

2:21:56>> on all on all accounts

2:21:58>> if here's the thing it is the whole

2:22:00thing is confusing because of the way

2:22:03that this has happened because these

2:22:06backtoback violations have occurred and

2:22:09um the retailer has asked for appeals

2:22:12legitimately and we want to give him his

2:22:14due process. Um if the board um wants to

2:22:19continue it um they can continue this

2:22:22last one for reviewing the information,

2:22:26making sure that um you are comfortable

2:22:30knowing what the facts are. Obviously,

2:22:32we want the we we want anybody that asks

2:22:34for an appeal to have their due process

2:22:37to come to give their um their testimony

2:22:40and for the board to be able to ask

2:22:42questions. Um we are confident that Mr.

2:22:47Harjani was informed of this meeting. Um

2:22:51he was aware of it. We notified him. We

2:22:54went through all the steps, the proper

2:22:56process. Um and unfortunately I he he's

2:23:00not here. Um but certainly we don't want

2:23:04to have the board continue. If there's

2:23:06any questions at all, anything that we

2:23:10can do to try to help you with this, we

2:23:14want to do do that. We have reached out

2:23:16to town council. Um, town council uh

2:23:19actually spoke um with uh Jordan today

2:23:23and they did um take a look at the

2:23:27appeal that came in late Sunday night.

2:23:30Um, we saw it Monday morning and they

2:23:33said that we could move forward.

2:23:36However, if there's questions that you

2:23:39have further for town council or we want

2:23:41to review this internally, I have no

2:23:43problem, you know, doing that and Jordan

2:23:48and I can get any information that you

2:23:49need. We can break it down. We can uh

2:23:52work with uh Joan and her team. Nobody

2:23:55wants to take any severe action on

2:23:59somebody

2:24:02with such an important permit. You know,

2:24:06we never want to take a permit away from

2:24:07somebody, but you have to also look at

2:24:10like the whole picture in what's

2:24:12happening here. We want somebody to

2:24:13comply. That's ultimately what we want.

2:24:16So, can we give them education? Can we

2:24:17give them chances? Can we work with

2:24:20them? We we want to do all of that.

2:24:23Th this is considered egregious. This is

2:24:26not common.

2:24:27>> Yeah, you we have had other communities

2:24:29that have gotten to the permit

2:24:30revocation. We have never had anybody in

2:24:33this short period of a time keep

2:24:35accumulating this much violation. So

2:24:38this is a egregious non-compliance

2:24:41with no apparent efforts of the retailer

2:24:44to make any corrective steps to cor when

2:24:48you know once he's violated been told

2:24:50what he needs to do. It's it's almost

2:24:53like how do we how did we get to another

2:24:56inspection and you still have the stuff

2:24:58in your store when all the education has

2:25:00been provided.

2:25:02Um, so on the 7-day suspension after the

2:25:05second hearing,

2:25:07>> right? He he was when you visited him

2:25:12that that was that was the one that the

2:25:16stuff was out in the open. You had seen

2:25:20it. He was supposed to be suspended for

2:25:217 days.

2:25:22>> It was under the Jod. It was

2:25:24>> regardless where it was, it was present.

2:25:25>> Yeah. May

2:25:26>> it wasn't secured properly.

2:25:28>> He was supposed to be suspended for

2:25:30seven days. You showed up there during

2:25:32that time period. You saw the illegal

2:25:34material that

2:25:37fired off the third violation. He

2:25:40requested a hearing to stop

2:25:44to for a uh a hearing for the third

2:25:47violation which occurred on May 1st.

2:25:50So he and and this is where I'm I'm and

2:25:52this was the previous hearing had I I

2:25:54wish I had known the information that we

2:25:56actually did in fact have proper dates

2:25:58on

2:25:59>> this that he requested this hearing.

2:26:03>> Um

2:26:07>> I'm [snorts] sorry this this is just too

2:26:09easy. Um I'd entertain a motion that um

2:26:11we take no action on the the fourth vi

2:26:14violation. Is there Yeah, I would

2:26:16entertain a motion that we take no

2:26:18violation um no action on the fourth

2:26:21violation.

2:26:25>> Um

2:26:27can I ask one more question to to Darene

2:26:30or Jordan? Um, regarding all his

2:26:33requests here, is that stepping up? Um,

2:26:38I know the on the bus is not an issue

2:26:40here, but um, he was talking about all

2:26:44the emails and logs and things like

2:26:47that.

2:26:50>> This was reviewed with legal.

2:26:52>> So, it was um, uh, sent to our um,

2:26:57tobacco control. So, um, uh, Joan and

2:27:00her team reviewed that request. Um, and,

2:27:05uh, we also sent it to town council. Um,

2:27:09again,

2:27:11if there is

2:27:13more clarification that you need,

2:27:16there's obviously we want to make sure

2:27:19that

2:27:20you have all your questions answered

2:27:22about what is in his request.

2:27:24>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I was just kind of

2:27:27wondering um

2:27:31about that.

2:27:31>> Okay,

2:27:32>> Joan, do you have um input on that

2:27:35request?

2:27:36>> You you provided advisement on it

2:27:38>> a little bit because obviously I'm your

2:27:40agent. I'm here to advise you. We have

2:27:41Chris with technical assistance. Your

2:27:43town council is not here, but Chris can

2:27:46speak to technical assistance of the

2:27:47process. This is a state violation

2:27:49recorded in the state database. we have

2:27:51to report back to the state if the board

2:27:53board finds them responsible or not

2:27:55responsible and a not responsible

2:27:57finding is because the board believes

2:27:58the evidence doesn't support the

2:28:00violation. Um so I would highly

2:28:02recommend continuing the hearing to be

2:28:05presented maybe Mr. Hani could make it

2:28:09the next hearing. Um and then whatever

2:28:12it just seems like we keep going back to

2:28:14the second violation and there's

2:28:16confusion. So maybe we could come up

2:28:18with a chart because the second

2:28:19violation was where we lost the email

2:28:22and you keep looping it into the third

2:28:24violation. And the third violation is

2:28:25where he didn't request it on time and

2:28:27after two weeks he was given a courtesy

2:28:29to still be allowed to be heard where

2:28:31where he didn't ask for it. Um Jordan

2:28:35could have said I'm sorry. Darlene could

2:28:37have said um we didn't request it. We're

2:28:39not we're not going to allow you to be

2:28:40heard. You're responsible for it. And

2:28:42then we'd be into a non-payment hearing

2:28:44with him. Um, as a courtesy, we could

2:28:47have when when we show up at a retailer

2:28:49and they're selling tobacco or they

2:28:51didn't secure it properly, there's a

2:28:53confiscation process. There's another

2:28:54finding. As a courtesy to them, we

2:28:57allowed them to fix it while we were

2:29:00there and remove the product so we

2:29:02didn't have to go through that

2:29:04enforcement process. This is

2:29:06overwhelming for us, too. Um, so if

2:29:08we're not presenting it clear enough,

2:29:10um, because to say no action, somebody

2:29:12has to report to the state because we

2:29:15got to go back in that database and that

2:29:16case needs to be closed and that's not

2:29:18an option to just take no action. So,

2:29:22um, I wouldn't know how to advise

2:29:23forward. Perhaps if if I may suggest if

2:29:28the issue is the fourth violation, it

2:29:31sounds like it is because you've already

2:29:33done the determination on the third,

2:29:35perhaps continue your determination

2:29:39of the fourth violation as opposed to no

2:29:42action and obtain the additional

2:29:46materials you were suggesting. If if if

2:29:48I'm capturing the if I'm capturing the

2:29:51intent of what you were saying

2:29:53>> and we still have to do a reinspection.

2:29:55So what are we going to do if we go this

2:29:56triggers a reinspection that we have not

2:29:58done? We have to do a reinspection for

2:30:00the third violation and a reinspection

2:30:01for the fourth violation. So now we

2:30:04could end up with a fifth and a sixth

2:30:05violation situation if he if he still

2:30:08has those products in the store or we

2:30:10find something else um in his store. Um,

2:30:15and again, we're when you get to the

2:30:17point where there's four violations,

2:30:20it's it's excessive non-compliance.

2:30:24But, um, and our recommendation would

2:30:26be, you know, we it was in a store. He

2:30:30didn't do what he was instructed to do,

2:30:31what he was supposed to do. We would we

2:30:33were had planned to a responsible

2:30:35finding 5,000 and we it's up to the

2:30:39board but we always recommend 30 days

2:30:42another 30-day suspension and continue

2:30:44the revocation without a finding pending

2:30:45that there's not another violation in

2:30:47the 36 months. Um, but you could also do

2:30:50that. Can they continue continue the vi

2:30:53instead of saying no action, we're going

2:30:55to continue this violation without a

2:30:57finding pending that there's not another

2:30:58one. And then if there's a fifth

2:31:00violation, it reopens this one.

2:31:05>> So

2:31:08the email that he sent requesting a

2:31:11hearing,

2:31:13was it actually sent on time?

2:31:16>> There were two though

2:31:16>> for the second violation. Yes. And for

2:31:19the fourth violation, the omnibus

2:31:21hearing came in on June 18th for both

2:31:24the third and the fourth violation in

2:31:27one appeal request. It technically met

2:31:30past the third violation,

2:31:34but it was in compliance with the fourth

2:31:36violation appeal period.

2:31:41how you know I'm thinking that maybe you

2:31:45know like a like you said a continuence

2:31:47without finding pend or and maybe have a

2:31:52like a a nice timeline and that you know

2:31:55if m and give Mr. Hajani the same

2:31:58timeline and if he's in you know

2:32:01agreement with that timeline and

2:32:03everything and we are and everything

2:32:04still stays the same in terms of the

2:32:07violations which I kind of expect it

2:32:09will obviously then I think it would

2:32:12kind of satisfy the need for more

2:32:16clarification and that we did give Mr.

2:32:20Hani

2:32:22quite a bit of leeway, too.

2:32:25>> So, he's held for the first three and

2:32:27then the fourth would be a continuence

2:32:29for him to be here in in person. We're

2:32:32giving him the opportunity to be here in

2:32:34person for the fourth.

2:32:37>> We can get I mean, I would assume that

2:32:39he would come here in person. I think I

2:32:41I need a a better timeline. I'm sorry.

2:32:43I'm too confused about all these

2:32:45violations. you can continue the hearing

2:32:47and we can pick it up at the next

2:32:49>> continue it that's what my

2:32:50recommendation but I mean I I

2:32:52facilitated a motion but um it was it

2:32:55was not um moved does any board member

2:32:57have another motion

2:32:59>> so moved

2:32:59>> well if if you

2:33:01>> we can just repeat it

2:33:02>> so yeah that motion that I was going to

2:33:05facilitate was that we take no action

2:33:07>> that we so um

2:33:09>> I was going to continue

2:33:11>> so if someone has another motion I will

2:33:13hear that motion

2:33:15>> I move for the continuence of the fourth

2:33:17hearing to allow us to get a more

2:33:20complete timeline and offer that same

2:33:24information to Mr. Harjani before we

2:33:26make our final ruling.

2:33:28>> Is there a second?

2:33:30>> Second.

2:33:30>> All those in favor of the motion signify

2:33:33by saying I. Carolyn Griffin.

2:33:34>> I.

2:33:35>> Cara Westman.

2:33:36>> I.

2:33:36>> Ericson. I.

2:33:38>> All right. Um, now I will entertain a

2:33:41motion to close the hearing.

2:33:43>> So move.

2:33:44>> Is there a second? Second.

2:33:45>> And all those in favor signify by saying

2:33:47I. Carolyn Griffin.

2:33:48>> I.

2:33:49>> Cara Westerman.

2:33:50>> I.

2:33:50>> Eric Artison. I. Hearing is now closed.

2:33:54>> Uh, moving on with the agenda. The the

2:33:57regional to uh health emergency

2:33:59preparedness coalition.

2:34:01>> Thank you. Uh so this is our yearly um

2:34:06uh our yearly request from the board to

2:34:08identify uh myself, Jordan, and Tim um

2:34:13as the representatives uh to attend the

2:34:15region 2 public health uh coalition um

2:34:19for the Auburn Board of Health. And um

2:34:22if we can uh get your support on that,

2:34:26it would be a motion to allow us to

2:34:29continue as the Auburn representatives.

2:34:33>> I would entertain a motion for Darlene

2:34:36and Gordon to continue on that and Tim

2:34:39to continue um on that uh preparedness

2:34:42coalition.

2:34:43>> So moved.

2:34:44>> Is there a second?

2:34:45>> Second.

2:34:46>> And all those in favor signify by saying

2:34:48I. Uh Carolyn Griffin.

2:34:50>> Hi.

2:34:50>> Cara Westman. Hi,

2:34:51>> Eric Godson. Hi.

2:34:52>> Thank you.

2:34:53>> All right. Um,

2:34:57so looking at director's updates here,

2:35:00um, the fee schedule, we're still we've

2:35:02had such busy agendas, we're not able to

2:35:04get much on that.

2:35:05>> Sure. Yep.

2:35:05>> Um, tobacco update, the permit renewal

2:35:08schedule.

2:35:09>> Yeah. So, I just wanted to let the board

2:35:11um know that uh June was our renewal

2:35:15period. So, we actually um uh have

2:35:18renewed all of our uh retailers um with

2:35:22tobacco permits.

2:35:24>> Okay. Uh solid waste and recycling then

2:35:27there's a new hauler in town republic

2:35:29services.

2:35:29>> Yeah. So, new hauler um Republic

2:35:32Services started on July 1st and um uh

2:35:36you may see uh some of those uh

2:35:38notifications go out um and um we're

2:35:42working with them closely for their

2:35:44drivers to learn the routes and um uh

2:35:48making sure that uh services um is

2:35:52appropriate

2:35:54>> that does that replace C.

2:35:55>> Was it Cassella?

2:35:57>> Uh previously it was Cassella.

2:35:58>> Okay. Yes.

2:36:01>> And then um the uh the final thing I

2:36:04just wanted to let you know um so we've

2:36:07had a pretty busy um last couple of

2:36:10months. Um we had the townwide cleanup

2:36:12day um is always in May and then we had

2:36:16our uh house uh household hazardous

2:36:18waste day um was uh the beginning of

2:36:22June. Uh so both of those months were

2:36:24packed with um events. All of um all of

2:36:28our staff have been um attending all of

2:36:32these events. Um these happen on

2:36:35weekends. They've done a bangup job. I'm

2:36:38so proud of them. Um we al also have our

2:36:41solid waste and recycling coordinator uh

2:36:43Colleen um assisting uh as well. And um

2:36:47we had a huge uh huge showing of CERT

2:36:51members uh community emergency response

2:36:54team members led by Kathy Stone. Um and

2:36:58we couldn't have done it so well without

2:37:01um everybody that uh helped out. So uh

2:37:03police, fire, um C were a huge help in

2:37:07all of these. So I just wanted to

2:37:09recognize them and um let the board know

2:37:12that we do have um so much support to

2:37:14the health department.

2:37:16Sounds great.

2:37:17>> Thank you.

2:37:18>> Um, right. Any other updates? No maven

2:37:22stuff at all.

2:37:23>> Um, no, I don't think so. We, um, uh,

2:37:26will bring the, uh, the monthly report,

2:37:29uh, to the next meeting.

2:37:30>> Excellent.

2:37:30>> Okay.

2:37:31>> Okay. Um, any board members have

2:37:33anything?

2:37:33>> No.

2:37:34>> No. Um, seeing none, uh, entertain a

2:37:38motion to adjurnn.

2:37:40>> So moved.

2:37:41>> There a second.

2:37:42>> I second. Uh, all those in favor signify

2:37:45by saying I. Carolyn Griffin

2:37:46>> I.

2:37:47>> Cara Westerman

2:37:47>> I.

2:37:48>> Eric Cardison I. Thank you all very

2:37:50much.