2026-09-24 - Historic Preservation Commission

00:48Good evening and welcome to the

00:51September 24th, 2026 meeting of the

00:54Historic Preservation Commission. My

00:56name is Nathaniel King. I'm the chair of

00:58the commission.

00:59>> [gasps]

01:00>> From the commission members present are

01:02starting with

01:04Peter Keeble.

01:05>> Peter Keeble.

01:08>> Matthew I Camp, alternate member.

01:11>> Um

01:12Commissioner Sachs.

01:14>> Katie Coe.

01:17>> And from the city of Bangor we have

01:20>> Annie Collette, planning officer.

01:25>> Matt Altiero, planning analyst.

01:27>> And then our consultant

01:29>> Mike Pullen, architect.

01:32>> [gasps]

01:33>> So, the Historic Preservation Commission

01:34has two roles. First, we serve as the

01:37Bangor Center Revitalization Area Design

01:40Review Committee

01:42designated under Section 71 of the city

01:44ordinances, which covers review issues

01:46in the downtown and waterfront areas of

01:48Bangor. Second, the commission has

01:51several responsibilities in the Historic

01:53Preservation section of city ordinances,

01:55Section 148, including issuing

01:57certificates of appropriateness for

01:59construction of or changes to buildings

02:01within the city's designated historic

02:03districts.

02:04We may need to review a proposal under

02:06both design review and historic

02:08preservation criteria.

02:11So, if all regular members are in

02:13attendance, our associate members

02:14participate in the meeting but do not

02:17vote on motions.

02:19In the event that any regular members

02:20are absent, associate members will vote

02:23such that there is a majority vote to

02:25pass any motion.

02:27And

02:28historic preservation applications must

02:32receive a majority votes for certificate

02:34of appropriateness to be issued

02:36and the same for design reviews.

02:39So, the order of the meeting will be as

02:40follows. I will call the applicants in

02:42the order they appear on the agenda.

02:44When I call you when I call your

02:45project, I'll ask you to present your

02:47application to the podium.

02:49Uh please make sure that the mic is on.

02:51And when question and then once you have

02:53made your presentation, I will first ask

02:55for the consultant's report, second for

02:57questions from commission members, and

02:59third for questions or comments from the

03:01audience.

03:03When questions are completed, the

03:05commission will have a discussion of the

03:07proposal and the standards of review

03:08under which the proposal is being

03:10considered.

03:11When discussion is complete, the

03:13commission will take action on the

03:14proposal to approve, deny, or otherwise

03:17handle it.

03:18When a proposal is being evaluated under

03:20both design review and historic

03:22preservation criteria, the commission

03:24will make separate motions related to

03:26each type of review.

03:29I will then ask for commission member

03:31votes.

03:32So, some final points for applicants

03:34before the HPC. If it looks as if your

03:36project will not be approved, you may

03:39choose to withdraw your application,

03:41amend your application, and then

03:43resubmit your application for a future

03:45meeting, saving the application fee.

03:48If you disagree with the decision of the

03:49commission regarding your project, you

03:51have the right to appeal the decision to

03:53the Board of Appeals.

03:55And all projects need to be started

03:57within 6 months and completed within a

03:59year, otherwise a new application to the

04:02commission will need to be made and

04:03approved prior to starting your project.

04:05I believe that's changed, hasn't it?

04:07It is not 6 months, it is a year. A year

04:11and 2 years, excuse me. All projects

04:13need to be started within a year and

04:14completed within 2 years.

04:17So before we begin, are there any

04:18additions to the agenda for

04:20consideration?

04:25No?

04:26Okay, then I will pull up my agenda and

04:29we will see

04:31what we have on there.

04:33Okay, so the first old business is

04:36approval of the meeting minutes from

04:38September 10th, 2026.

04:40If there are no changes, I'll entertain

04:42a motion.

04:44>> I'd like to make a motion to approve the

04:46meeting minutes from September 10th,

04:482026. They look great. My name's in

04:50there too much.

04:53>> Is there a second?

04:55>> Second.

04:57>> Yes.

04:58>> I'll abstain. I wasn't there.

05:01>> I have to abstain. I was recused.

05:02>> Okay. And I wasn't there either.

05:04>> And I vote yes, so they pass.

05:07Okay. And then the next item old

05:09business is adoption of findings and

05:11decision for 217 York Street.

05:14>> I would like to make a motion to adopt

05:16the findings and decision for 217 York

05:18Street.

05:22>> Second.

05:24>> Yes.

05:25Yes.

05:27>> Abstain.

05:29>> Abstain.

05:31>> And I vote even though I wasn't there,

05:32but I reviewed the uh

05:35>> I wasn't there, you can.

05:36>> Yeah, you can.

05:37>> Okay, then I'm abstaining as well.

05:39>> And then I vote yes.

05:41So I believe it passes.

05:43And we will adopt the decision for 217

05:45York Street.

05:47So move on to the next item, which is

05:49new business. So, we have a certificate

05:51of appropriateness for 225 Cedar Street.

05:55The applicant is One Stop Home Repairs.

05:59If you would like to approach.

06:03>> Silly question as he approaches. Um I

06:05have hired this wonderful business

06:06before. Does that mean that I have to

06:08recuse myself?

06:11>> You've hired them before. I mean, the

06:13past doesn't really have relevance. It's

06:15you know, if you're looking at hiring,

06:17maybe.

06:19>> Awesome. Thank you.

06:23>> My name is Howard Welden. I'm uh

06:26work for One Stop Home Repair. I'm

06:29doing this applicant for the window

06:31project at 225

06:34Cedar Street.

06:36I'm not sure

06:40um

06:41what else I've presented some photos.

06:46Uh packet to the city for

06:49we're changing out 14 windows. There's

06:52uh

06:53photos in there of the property.

06:55Um

06:57there's

06:58uh Sanford Hill line, which is from

07:01Matthews Brothers is the window

07:03that seems to be the most appropriate

07:06historic window to

07:08change out that would be energy

07:10efficient.

07:12And

07:13on the um

07:15I I call it the bump out. There's a

07:17family room downstairs and a bedroom

07:20upstairs.

07:22And um

07:23uh

07:24windows are double hung um 6 over 6.

07:29There is uh

07:31thinner uh

07:32mutton

07:34option that can goes more with uh

07:38era of the of the windows. So, I think

07:41that's um looks good.

07:44The

07:46windows that are there presently, the

07:48ones upstairs are

07:51I would guess maybe a '70s version. I'm

07:53not sure the

07:55when that bump out was put on, whether

07:58it was originally there with the

08:00structure or not, but

08:03I think that these windows are the black

08:06to go with the others would be in

08:07keeping of the

08:09historic look of the house better than

08:12they are now, actually, so

08:15Um

08:19Do you have any questions for me or I

08:22don't

08:24This is I think my first time here for

08:27applicant for this, so I'm not I'd have

08:29to

08:32answer what I'm here to answer any

08:34questions, whatever I can do, so.

08:36>> So, we'll go ahead and proceed with

08:37consultant's report.

08:40>> Thank you, Howard.

08:41Complete application, more than

08:43complete. We probably didn't need all of

08:45the copies of every window that

08:48that they make in their line, but I had

08:50a couple of points and you responded to

08:52those, but so the commission can hear

08:54it, if I could go back through those

08:55with you?

08:56>> Absolutely.

08:57>> I know [clears throat] at the

08:58pre-application we had with you, you

08:59indicated that the windows would be

09:01custom-made and aluminum clad. This

09:04application proposes vinyl windows.

09:08Can you explain what the change was or

09:11>> I was

09:12to be

09:14uh

09:15I was remiss in

09:16knowing looking deeper into the window

09:20book itself. I was under the

09:22understanding that they were

09:24I'd seen some line of theirs that was

09:26aluminum clad and I assumed that, which

09:28is not a good thing to do, so.

09:30>> But you're going with the Sandford

09:31Hills, which is all vinyl.

09:34>> Correct.

09:34>> Yeah.

09:35>> [clears throat]

09:35>> Next point I have was will the

09:37windows maintain the glass width and

09:39height of the existing windows?

09:42And will there need to be any infill

09:44materials around the windows if there's

09:46if they were stock windows?

09:49First part was will the glass remain the

09:51same size?

09:53>> Yes, that's the reason to do new

09:56construction. We can

09:58>> Okay.

09:59>> Uh

09:59>> [snorts]

09:59>> but then when you do the stops or the

10:02replacement kind of you

10:04the

10:06uh

10:07bring the window and everything goes in

10:09the existing opening so that oh the size

10:11can shrink in that case. But this

10:13>> Mhm.

10:15>> This this this will be the the same same

10:18size.

10:19>> I think Howard actually provided some

10:20dimensional information in the packet so

10:23it seemed to satisfy that question.

10:26Um

10:27>> [clears throat]

10:27>> the existing six over six muntins

10:29featured narrow putty glaze versions.

10:33These will be SDLs. That means simulated

10:35divided lights.

10:37And will they match those details? I

10:39think you've already said you're going

10:40to go with the narrowest muntin that

10:42they have.

10:43>> the half inch.

10:44>> Half inch.

10:44>> Yeah, the half inch.

10:45>> Okay.

10:47The [clears throat] original windows

10:48were painted black and you said that the

10:50new windows will match that color,

10:51black.

10:52>> Yes.

10:52>> Okay.

10:54Um

10:55why is the exterior trim being replaced?

10:58[snorts]

10:59>> Uh because they are new construction

11:01windows so they have a nailing fin on

11:03them so you have to remove the trim.

11:05>> Yeah.

11:06>> Um

11:07>> Get that.

11:08>> to install them.

11:09>> The other thing I wanted to just mention

11:11was in the pre-application, I'm just

11:13holding up I think this was the best

11:15photo

11:16you provided. This looks like this. Cuz

11:19you can see all the windows that I think

11:21that of the total of 14

11:24in the bump out or the sunroom

11:26so-called. There was also a window up

11:28here, this window, which was changed out

11:31without review of the commission, which

11:34we were going to include in this

11:35application.

11:36>> Okay.

11:37>> So, will that make it 15 windows?

11:39>> Yes.

11:40>> So, you the commission understands

11:42there's a window upstairs that was

11:43replaced. Here's a close-up shot of that

11:46in the packet.

11:47It's all black. [clears throat]

11:49It has six over six muntins.

11:51Yeah.

11:52>> And that will use the same simulated

11:53divided lights?

11:55>> Yes.

11:56>> It has the same

11:57>> It's already been put in.

11:58>> It does.

11:59>> It's already been put in.

12:00>> It's already installed?

12:00>> It's installed.

12:01>> Oh, okay.

12:02>> It was there previously, so we thought

12:04we'd include it just to make a clean

12:05application.

12:07>> matches.

12:07>> Shape that.

12:07>> Include that with that with that with

12:08it.

12:10>> So, there's none on the front. When I

12:11count 14 on that photograph that you

12:14gave us, it looks like there's the

12:16driveway side, then there's the back

12:18side. That totals 14, so is there no

12:21windows replaced on the street side, on

12:24Cedar Street side?

12:26>> That view that you see the the the one

12:30Uh that's the street end.

12:32>> Oh, that is the street end.

12:33>> Yeah.

12:33>> Okay.

12:34>> The other one would be and there isn't

12:35any windows on that.

12:36>> There's none on the back side.

12:38>> Just a door on the second floor and a

12:40door on the first floor.

12:41>> Perfect. Thank you.

12:43Follow ahead.

12:45Unless you guys have more questions.

12:49>> Okay, and now I'll kick it over to

12:50questions from the commission.

12:53>> I have a couple questions. Is the trim

12:54that you're removing to install the

12:56windows going to be replaced in kind? Do

12:58you have details of the trim?

13:00It's going to match.

13:02>> Uh the one uh

13:04question is uh

13:06the sill

13:08uh which is uh

13:10uh

13:10part that slopes on the outside to to to

13:13that aspect.

13:16They do have in the in the book they do

13:18have incorporated sills that would would

13:21go with those windows.

13:23But I'm not sure

13:25uh

13:26So, to your question, yes, it will be in

13:29like kind. I'm not sure if it's going to

13:30be wood in order to

13:32make that uh sill, that slope sill, or

13:36whether we're going to use the vinyl,

13:37but

13:38you can see in the bottom picture,

13:40it's a long continuous sill that goes

13:43all the way across. So,

13:46I'm thinking that we're going to have to

13:48do a wood sill attached to that, so it

13:51looks the same.

13:53>> And the the height of the sill will be

13:55the same.

13:56>> Yes.

13:57>> Correct.

13:57>> Yeah.

13:58>> I think that's an important design

14:00element.

14:00>> Yeah.

14:04>> Thank you.

14:05>> You're welcome.

14:10>> Uh there was a mention about storm

14:12windows.

14:14>> Like right now, the windows have

14:16combination storm windows applied to the

14:19outside.

14:20>> I see.

14:21>> Those will not be put back. They're more

14:23of a

14:24add-on

14:2660s, 70s, 80s, that stuff. So,

14:30it would

14:32Uh the reason I did include that picture

14:35of the window that was already done, it

14:36would they'll look like that.

14:39Which is just a screen. There's no

14:41because they're insulated glass and that

14:43the storm window's not needed.

14:47>> And so, in essence, the windows will be

14:49easier to see because they don't have

14:52the add-on storms and will look more

14:54like this.

14:55>> I would say, yes. Yeah.

14:57>> Great.

15:00Any additional questions?

15:03>> Okay.

15:05Are there any questions from anyone in

15:06the audience, online or in person?

15:11No? Okay. I will close the public

15:13comment and we will move to commission

15:14discussion.

15:17>> Just us.

15:23>> I really don't have a lot to say other

15:24than I think it looks very appropriate.

15:26They've done a good job with this. I

15:27think your your presentation stuff you

15:29brought us was excellent. And uh so

15:32[clears throat] I I don't have any

15:33particular concerns or things to

15:35discuss.

15:36>> Yeah, I'd echo that sentiment. Okay.

15:39>> Yeah, I think it was a complete

15:40application and if we if the sill were

15:43replaced in kind with

15:45same thickness and the trim is replaced

15:48the windows trim is replaced in kind

15:49then I have no objections

15:51to it.

15:57>> Same.

15:59>> Okay.

16:01>> Well, I don't have any issues with it. I

16:03think it's appropriate and I think if

16:05the window sills are being replaced in

16:07kind then I think that's

16:09easily done.

16:10>> Yeah.

16:11>> And you you confirmed that is something

16:13you're going to be doing replacing in

16:14kind if if

16:15>> Yes.

16:16>> possible or you're already doing it.

16:17>> It is in kind.

16:18>> Okay.

16:19>> I have to look again at the photo but I

16:20believe the second floor and the first

16:22floor have that sill on them.

16:25Even though they're a uh

16:28newer window

16:30on the second floor. The older windows

16:32are I would think originally uh

16:33downstairs and that

16:36uh

16:37sunroom but the upstairs ones are but

16:39they still have that sill

16:42on them.

16:44So.

16:46Okay.

16:49>> All right. Well, then

16:52there are no further comments for

16:54discussion or no your last green? Not

16:56green? Okay.

16:58Then let's find the form so we can

17:01make some motions.

17:06Okay.

17:07So, I would entertain a motion to mark

17:11the procedural background as complete

17:13for this application.

17:15>> Move that we mark the procedural

17:17background as complete.

17:18>> Seconded.

17:21>> Yes.

17:22>> Uh yes.

17:23>> Yes.

17:24>> Yes.

17:25>> And I also vote yes.

17:27Procedural background is complete.

17:30The next motion covering section four

17:32applicable provisions and findings part

17:35one.

17:36>> I'd like to move

17:38that the commission finds that based on

17:40exhibit one {dash} and two the

17:42application satisfies historic

17:44preservation code 148 {dash} 9A

17:47requiring that any alteration or

17:49structural preserve or enhance this

17:51historical and architectural character.

17:55>> I second.

17:58>> Yes.

17:59>> Yes.

18:00>> Yes.

18:01>> Yes.

18:01>> And I also vote yes.

18:04I would

18:05>> Can I suggest that before we move on

18:07that we move that the yellow highlighted

18:10uh

18:12sections are not applicable to this

18:14application and that they be removed

18:17from the document.

18:20>> Yeah, if you want to make that motion.

18:23>> I move that the

18:25yellow highlighted paragraphs in our

18:27document be removed.

18:29Um

18:31Do you want me to detail which they are?

18:34>> No.

18:34>> Okay.

18:36Um

18:36and not included with this is they are

18:38not relevant.

18:39>> I second.

18:41>> And that is for second that is for parts

18:43two and part three?

18:44>> Yes.

18:47>> Okay.

18:49>> Yes.

18:50>> Yes.

18:51>> Yes.

18:51>> Yes.

18:52>> And yes.

18:53>> Okay.

18:54So now we can move into the motions for

18:56part two starting with part two

18:59number two.

19:00>> Part two number two I move that the

19:02commission finds that based on exhibit

19:04one {dash} two the application satisfies

19:07historic preservation code 148 {dash}

19:099B2B

19:11requiring that rehabilitation work does

19:13not destroy the distinguishing qualities

19:15or character of the structure and its

19:18environment.

19:19>> I second.

19:21>> You?

19:22>> Yes.

19:24>> Yes.

19:25>> Yes.

19:26>> Yes.

19:26>> And I also vote yes.

19:28>> We're just going to be talking for a

19:30little bit. You can sit down.

19:31>> Okay. Yeah. Thank you for catching that.

19:33>> [laughter]

19:35>> I've got my thing on the screen here, so

19:36I'm not paying attention.

19:38>> I move that the commission finds that

19:40based on exhibits 1-2, the application

19:41satisfies the historic preservation code

19:44148-9B2C

19:46requiring that while repair is

19:47preferable to replacement in the event

19:50that replacement of deteriorated

19:52>> Or deteriorated, that's an interesting

19:54word.

19:55>> Both

19:55architectural features is necessary, the

19:58feature being replaced in design, color,

20:01texture, and other visual qualities and

20:03where economically and technically

20:05feasible materials.

20:07>> I second.

20:09>> Yes.

20:10>> Yes.

20:11>> Yes.

20:11>> Yes.

20:12>> And I also vote yes.

20:15>> I move that the commission finds that on

20:17based on exhibits 1-2, the application

20:20satisfies the historic preservation code

20:22148-2B2D

20:25requiring that distinctive stylistic

20:27features or examples of skilled

20:29craftsmanship which characterize the

20:31historic structures is not damaged or

20:33destroyed wherever possible.

20:35>> I second.

20:36>> Yes.

20:38>> Yes.

20:39>> Yes.

20:39>> Yes.

20:40>> I also vote yes.

20:42>> I move the commission finds based on

20:43exhibits 1-2, the application satisfies

20:46the historic preservation code 148-2B2I

20:50requiring that when wherever possible,

20:52all alterations to structures shall be

20:54done in such a manner that if they were

20:56to be removed in the future, the

20:58essential form and integrity of the

20:59original structure would be unimpaired.

21:02>> And you do mean 148-9.

21:04>> Did I say 148-9B2I?

21:07Yep. Reading [snorts] it correctly.

21:09>> Then

21:09>> I second with 9 ft.

21:12>> [laughter]

21:13>> Yes.

21:15>> Yes.

21:15>> Yes.

21:18>> Yes, I'm sorry.

21:20>> And I also vote yes.

21:22>> Okay. All right, we're at the decision.

21:24>> I move that the commission finds that

21:26based on the findings of ordinance 1-2

21:28section 4 of this document, the project

21:31meets the requirements for a certificate

21:32of appropriateness and therefore grants

21:35a certificate of appropriateness for the

21:36proposed projects.

21:39>> I'll second this time.

21:41>> Yes.

21:41>> Yes.

21:42>> Yes.

21:43>> And I also vote yes.

21:45>> And it passes 5-0.

21:49>> Thank you.

21:50>> You're welcome.

21:51>> And Anya, did you get the typo in

21:55the form?

21:56>> I did not, sorry.

21:57>> Um there in page two

22:00uh in part two number three, it should

22:03be deteriorated not deteriorate.

22:06Sorry.

22:08I've never caught that.

22:10>> [laughter]

22:11>> You're the first one that got it.

22:12>> Sorry.

22:13>> Everything we've done so far has asked

22:15to be completely redone.

22:16>> Oh, did oh, don't put that evil out

22:17there, Ricky Bobby. Don't even joke.

22:20Don't even joke. Okay. Thank you very

22:23much for coming tonight. Appreciate.

22:25Yeah. Take care.

22:27>> So that concludes the new business and

22:29so now we can move on to the other

22:31business, which is open discussion.

22:34And this is a space to talk about any

22:35subjects related to historic

22:37preservation generally in the city that

22:39the commission might want to discuss.

22:45Discuss.

22:50>> Was there any intent for this time?

22:54Uh when we when the original special

22:57meetings were scheduled, it was to

22:59provide extra time for discussion if

23:01members wanted to talk about anything in

23:02particular.

23:03>> We have any open things we've discussed

23:05in the past that are not yet resolved?

23:07>> I don't think so.

23:08>> Like the really cool uh provisions for

23:11like archaeology in the city of

23:13Lakewood.

23:13>> [laughter]

23:14>> We'll be working on those hopefully this

23:16winter, but yeah.

23:19Got my hands full with the land

23:20development code right now.

23:24>> Uh is there any more talk of um

23:26artifacts doing more surveys of

23:28residential areas or parks or over by

23:33the old air force base which we

23:34discussed? Has that gotten

23:37anywhere?

23:38>> We would need more funding for that.

23:40We've paid for those through grants

23:42through the past several years. Um

23:45I don't think we had the capacity to

23:46apply for a grant this past spring.

23:48Um

23:50Certainly it's something if another

23:51grant comes up we can discuss doing

23:53that. Um

23:55but they're

23:57>> Well, I thought maybe some more of the

23:59parks. Um

24:01I think we haven't surveyed in little

24:02city yet.

24:04I think that would be a good place to do

24:06it.

24:07Um

24:09maybe by the air force base cuz I think

24:11that's

24:12kind of an overlooked area.

24:15And what Nate's brought up with with the

24:17archaeology I think is a really

24:18important area where we explore.

24:24>> I'm sorry. You can assess everyone's

24:26backyards.

24:27>> Um

24:28>> We can go shovel test everyone's

24:29backyards.

24:31>> Yeah, I think with archaeology um Nate

24:33has brought up some good suggestions to

24:35me about um there is a database wasn't

24:37there archaeological sites that you

24:39mentioned? I thought a database.

24:42>> There is a state database but you have

24:43to have credentials to access that

24:45database. It's not just open to the

24:47general public cuz it's against state

24:49law to

24:50share um archaeological site information

24:53without people that don't have a

24:54dedicated access to it.

24:56>> Right.

24:56>> Or um

24:57reason or right to access it. Like

24:59landowners or professional

25:01archaeologists.

25:02Um,

25:05I'm trying to think what it was we did

25:06talk about. I think we did I know we had

25:07talked about some of Portland's

25:09ordinances with archaeology.

25:11And then just concerns about metal

25:13detecting on city-owned and state

25:15property in in the town.

25:18>> So, um,

25:20>> [clears throat]

25:21>> did you have in mind designating

25:23archaeological sites, or were you

25:26more so you were looking at ordinance

25:27language that was

25:28>> More

25:29>> when people were digging?

25:30>> More ordinance language for development

25:33for development to consider

25:35>> Mhm.

25:36>> archaeological sites. Cuz right now, if

25:37you when you look at the code code, it

25:39is primarily above ground resources.

25:41It's all above ground resources.

25:43Um, and you know, a lot of the

25:46pre-contact sites in the city of Bangor

25:48proper are deeply buried.

25:51But, for example, looking at downtown,

25:52building the new Y,

25:54you know, there was a lot of ground

25:55disturbance that took place there, and I

25:57think it's just important that

25:59as we look at how the city develops and

26:00is growing,

26:02you know, we have a lot of things that

26:03we need to take into account. We have

26:05Native American sites at water

26:07confluences and such. We have historic

26:10era sites throughout Bangor, and as the

26:12years march on,

26:14you know, this date, 1976, call

26:16qualifies as historic.

26:18Um, 50-year with the 50-year rule.

26:21So, we don't want to be so

26:24locked in on our gorgeous above ground

26:27resources we ignore what's under our

26:29feet. It's just making sure the city

26:31kind of has a plan to deal with those,

26:33and

26:34a way to work with, you know,

26:36construction developers, whatever, to

26:38everyone kind of work together. Usually,

26:40you can be dealt with just as simple as

26:41having a plan for the finds.

26:44Find something, these are the things you

26:46need to stop work for, and these are

26:48not. Work with maybe the historic

26:50society or somewhere that can be the

26:51repository for some of these artifacts.

26:54Things can go to the state museum. That

26:56all gets worked out, but

26:57>> Okay.

26:58>> Portland did a good job at addressing

27:00that and and kind of their city code.

27:02I'm a big fan of stealing things from

27:03other other towns as I've said on the

27:05record repeatedly.

27:07Um

27:08>> Yeah, definitely if we can take some of

27:10that language, that would be helpful.

27:12So, it wouldn't be I guess recommended

27:15to designate specific archaeological

27:17sites or

27:18>> No, just because when you designate

27:20somewhere as a known archaeological

27:22site, you open up the potential for

27:23looting.

27:24And like I know just driving around

27:26town, I've seen a few hobbyist metal

27:28detector folks

27:30poking and prodding on some places that

27:31are city property and private property

27:34as long as they have landowner

27:35permission, they're allowed to do things

27:36like that.

27:38But, you know, I think the city

27:41could take a look at that,

27:43come up with something that's beneficial

27:44for the metal detectorists and for the

27:46city.

27:47Um you know, a a good example is

27:51South Carolina has a it's called a hobby

27:53diver program where

27:55you can go out after some training

27:57through the state and dive on these

27:59shipwrecks and collect things from the

28:01shipwrecks, but the state gets first

28:03round of refusal. So, if you find a

28:04bunch of cool things, state looks at

28:06that and says, "We want these things.

28:08The rest of this is yours to do with

28:10what you please."

28:11City could probably consider something

28:14like that for metal detecting where if

28:16you're metal detecting on city property,

28:17you report what you find, the historic

28:19society maybe gets first right to say

28:22yes or no,

28:23you know, to keeping something and then,

28:25you know, the rest of it goes with the

28:26metal detector.

28:27>> You'd probably want to involve the

28:28tribal community as well.

28:30>> You You would.

28:33Um

28:36It's also about

28:39It's It's a tricky spot. So, there's

28:42there are Native American sites in in

28:44Bangor proper,

28:46but a lot of what you're going to find

28:47right now is going to be historic

28:48period.

28:49>> Mhm.

28:49>> And you're not going to get to the

28:50Native American sites in Bangor unless

28:52you're out there with the backhoe, like

28:53a literal backhoe or excavator.

28:57Um but the city could definitely add

28:59language about Native American objects

29:01and the tribes cuz the tribes all have

29:03their designated repository. They can

29:05get the facility on Bar Harbor they use.

29:07>> Yeah.

29:08>> Um

29:09so that's something the city will want

29:10to take into account if someone is

29:11finding Native American objects and

29:13such, but

29:14>> Yeah.

29:15>> Um

29:16>> I brought up since you were talking

29:17about the why and you know deeper ground

29:19disturbance, I think it's important to

29:20have

29:21>> Yes, and that's where, like I've said,

29:23like when you work with these

29:24developers, you say like here's the kind

29:26of things we want you to stop work if

29:28you come across and contact the city.

29:30You know, here's pictures of what we

29:32call funerary objects, that dark greasy

29:34dirt that's common with burials, you

29:37know, these sorts of objects. If you

29:39need to immediately see human remains,

29:40things like that, you need to

29:41immediately stop work and here's the

29:43process to go through. Cuz right now, I

29:46don't believe the city has anything in

29:47their code about it and

29:49I mean, assuming you don't you find

29:50anything, you know, sort of human

29:52remains, you

29:53throw it in the trash pile or whatever.

29:55>> I also like to note that if we're doing

29:57that for the metal detectorists, we

29:59should include the magnet fishing folks.

30:02Yeah, though the rules in waterways

30:03might be different.

30:04>> So within waterways, um like land

30:07owners, property owners own to the low

30:08water lines now thanks to the Maine

30:10Supreme Court.

30:12Um so

30:15the if it's city property, I believe the

30:16city ownership would extend to the low

30:18water line and then state ownership

30:19begins.

30:21Um if it's on pri- if it's private

30:22property, so if you have a house at the

30:24edge of the river, your pri- property

30:26line extends down to the water line. So

30:28if it's within your private property,

30:30again, you can sort of do what you want.

30:33>> I've seen folks

30:34I've seen folks uh doing it off the

30:36Kenduskeag bridges.

30:39>> Then that's yeah, that's different,

30:40especially and this is a thing for the

30:42of Bangor to note, when you're doing the

30:43Kenduskeag bridges, there are no one

30:46Penobscot River Expedition shipwrecks

30:47there,

30:48and the city should make sure people are

30:49aware that those wrecks are property of

30:51the United States Navy, and any objects

30:53that are removed from those shipwrecks

30:55could subject you to federal penalties

30:58for disturbing uh those federal those

31:00federally protected wrecks.

31:01>> Not even one cannon? Not Not

31:04Just one of Paul Revere's cannons?

31:06>> Nope.

31:07>> [laughter]

31:08>> Nope, all of those those wrecks are uh

31:10property of the Navy cuz the Navy does

31:12not

31:13um

31:14relinquish title to any watercraft or

31:16sunken craft up to and including

31:18aircraft, tracked vehicles, anything

31:20without an explicit rule

31:22>> And there's submarines that

31:25the antique ones. Sorry, I was just

31:27remembering the ones that are like early

31:29early submarines that they

31:31>> Yeah.

31:32Well, no, these are all sorts of things

31:33that the city, you know,

31:36well-meaning, but does need to make sure

31:37they don't

31:38especially where you have

31:40federally protected shipwrecks right

31:42there off of

31:43you know, you can see the the general

31:45area from um SeaDog. Mhm. You know, both

31:49city of Bangor and city of Brewer need

31:51to make sure there's some communication

31:53about the protection of those.

31:55You know, especially as not such a big

31:57deal up here, but bottle coning is

32:00kind of a popular pastime where I'm

32:01from. Actually Civil War relics, so.

32:04>> It would be really cool to add signage

32:06of those on our waterfront.

32:07>> I was just about to say that.

32:09>> Well, funnily enough, um that was

32:11something I was going to bring up to our

32:13Parks and Rec Director and I found out

32:15actually um that he's been working with

32:18Downtown Bangor Partnership to add

32:19signage. He wants to do like more of the

32:21history of the waterfront and the river,

32:23and I mentioned Nate um the

32:26Revolutionary War shipwrecks that we

32:28covered in James Walk and highlighting

32:30those as well, so.

32:31>> And coincidentally, my friend from grad

32:33school is uh works for Navy History here

32:35is command in their underwater

32:36archaeology branch, so it would be no

32:37problem to convince him to write

32:38something up.

32:39>> Yeah.

32:40>> So he's

32:41>> Um I think if you are doing signage that

32:44that language that Nate said about

32:46removing items should be on that sign.

32:49>> Yeah, I was just thinking that like if

32:50we're going to highlight that there

32:51should probably say something about

32:52that.

32:53>> And the same thing goes like even diving

32:54on them and things like that like this I

32:56don't believe that they're

32:57where you can readily dive on them.

33:00Trying to remember where the unredacted

33:01report kind of said they were at.

33:04But

33:06where there's a John boat and a will,

33:08somebody's going to find a way.

33:09And um I think it's you know that

33:12signage does need to talk about the how

33:15they're protected, the penalties, and

33:17also that like, you know, you should

33:18dive, you should treat these things with

33:19respect. Sometimes wrecks like these are

33:22technically burials if anybody dies on

33:24had died on the wreck, the remains could

33:25still be there.

33:27Um but these are all important things to

33:29consider with especially with submerged

33:30wreck sites, but the magnet fishing is a

33:33good point and also the other part is

33:35cannonballs can still explode.

33:37>> Mhm.

33:37>> Even if they're a couple hundred years

33:38old, they very much can still explode.

33:41So if, you know, Jim Bob and Lurleen

33:43haul up some cannonball on, you know,

33:46the Josh Chamberlain Bridge, there is

33:48that they are handling unexploded

33:50ordnance. They could potentially,

33:53you know, could

33:54you know,

33:55go boom.

33:57There's a not zero number of people that

33:59die every year, you know, playing with

34:00Civil War ordnance or Revolutionary War

34:02ordnance.

34:03>> Um

34:05and also dangerously that is

34:08I mean not close close, but relatively

34:10close to the capped portion of the river

34:13to keep

34:15the deposits from the old business that

34:18was on the railroad side. Um that

34:20there's

34:21capped deposits of what is it, lead? Not

34:24lead. Mercury.

34:28Yeah.

34:29>> It's like the fish, I guess.

34:31Yeah, so there's is of those

34:33>> One of many, yeah.

34:34>> fun things.

34:34>> One of many reasons.

34:36>> [laughter]

34:39>> Um kind of going back to the signage, um

34:42we talked to some

34:43at one of the previous meetings about

34:45putting signage up in like the historic

34:47the historic like the designated Bangor

34:49historic landmarks. And I still I still

34:52think that's a really nice idea.

34:54So, if grant funding or parks and rec

34:56money or whatever

34:58kind of silo you can pull from, I think

35:00that'd be a nice way to engage people as

35:02they just walk around neighborhoods.

35:03>> Yeah, for sure. I've seen some good

35:05examples recently um

35:07when I went to Denver for planning

35:09conference, they had really nice

35:10signage.

35:11So, it's on my list.

35:12Great ideas.

35:15>> And we've also got the bonus of having

35:16the public history kids up at UMaine.

35:19You know, they can help out with

35:21developing some of this stuff too as

35:22part projects and then things like that.

35:25>> Is that Liam's class?

35:27>> I think so, yeah.

35:29I was actually downtown the other day

35:30and I saw all of Liam's signs and I they

35:32were they're just they're so nice. Yeah,

35:34it's nice improvement down there.

35:36>> I saw somebody reading one on Kenduskeag

35:38today, so.

35:40Yeah.

35:42Thanks, Liam. [clears throat]

35:43>> Yeah, absolutely.

35:44>> [laughter]

35:46>> Well, one other thing I um

35:50I got my head a couple years ago

35:52and talked to the city engineer at the

35:54time

35:55about brick sidewalks

35:58in the historic area.

36:00Um like Broadway across from Mex.

36:03There is a very important early brick

36:06structures there and benefit greatly

36:08from a decent brick sidewalk.

36:11>> It'd be a nice delineation of those

36:13areas.

36:13>> It's not long, but it's

36:15almost from State Street up to

36:18Somerset.

36:19That stretch.

36:21But um

36:22and I sent examples of it to uh Jeff.

36:27And he's got he's got so many things

36:29going on.

36:30So, I think it kind of got lost.

36:32So, I could try again if you think that

36:34makes sense.

36:35>> I I do. I think that is a nice I like

36:37the the delineation of space.

36:39You know, it can catch someone's eye and

36:41then engage.

36:44I think it's a nice idea, Mike.

36:45>> The way they do them in Portland, too,

36:47which is different than up here where

36:49they just put pavers down on the sand is

36:52they actually do a bituminous walk

36:54that's dropped about 6 in or so.

36:56And they put in a 2-in sand layer on top

36:58and then they put the pavers on top of

37:00that.

37:01So, it's much more stable

37:04and doesn't come apart like some of our

37:06paver walks.

37:07>> I was going to say my opinion of the

37:10brick um

37:11sidewalks has drastically changed since

37:13I moved my mom to town and she's using

37:15her walker on these sidewalks and

37:17>> Dangerous.

37:18Up and down Yes.

37:19>> Yeah.

37:20>> They're broken and some are missing

37:21completely. A foot can go right in

37:23there.

37:25Anyway.

37:26>> Yeah. So, I I love that idea with

37:29the it did it additional work to make it

37:32so that it will last longer and be safer

37:33longer.

37:35>> I think that's a clever solution.

37:42>> And another thing to think about with

37:43the signage, too, I don't know if you've

37:45ever

37:46tried to engage some of these

37:47organizations, but um

37:50Eagle Scout projects, things like that.

37:53It's always a good signage or something

37:55like that or doing something with

37:56historic preservation could be a good

37:58opportunity for

38:00for a scout or

38:02we have anything related to

38:05Civil War sites, anything like that.

38:08Engaging with the veteran community

38:09might be good for that, too.

38:11Upkeep, things like that.

38:13I know when I worked at the Aviation

38:14Museum down in Pensacola,

38:17a lot of like the aircraft and um

38:21runs with were taken care of by, you

38:23know, veterans from that base or from

38:25those specific squadrons or those type

38:27of squadrons that still lived in the

38:29area.

38:30So,

38:31something to think about.

38:34>> Another thing to think about. I I like

38:35that idea of, you know, looking at other

38:37resources, etc. If we were to have

38:39different groups, Eagle Scout projects

38:42or otherwise, doing signage, it would be

38:44good to define a sign format, if you

38:48will,

38:49that would be recognizable as an

38:50historic,

38:51you know, plaque or sign, uh so that,

38:54you know,

38:55going around the city, it would be

38:56consistent. And you saw one, it would

38:58look, you know, you'd know what it was

39:00by just sort of seeing it. Say, "Oh my

39:01gosh, that's a historic, you know, sign.

39:03I think I want to take a look at that."

39:05Um there'd be some way to,

39:07I don't know, have a coordination of,

39:10you know, working on different possible

39:12sources for doing this work.

39:15>> But with a standardized form.

39:17>> Yeah.

39:17>> That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's

39:19what I'm saying.

39:21>> Yeah, when I was initially

39:23>> [clears throat]

39:23>> thinking about signage for the

39:24districts, I

39:26you see them a lot, like the in a lot of

39:28historic districts, like the metal

39:30signs, you know what I'm talking about?

39:32I was kind of thinking about format. If

39:34we were going to go with something.

39:36>> Yeah, I think that's a I think that

39:37those are very nice and they're not

39:39intrusive, but noticeable still.

39:42>> And being similar to what other places

39:44use, I mean, it

39:46gains even more of that consistency, if

39:48you will.

39:49>> Do you mean like the bronze plaques?

39:51>> Yeah.

39:52>> Yeah.

39:53>> Yeah, walk around Alexandria, Virginia,

39:55they're all over the

39:57>> Those are castings.

39:58>> Oh, they're castings, yeah.

40:00>> Bronze castings.

40:01>> Really nice.

40:02>> Yeah.

40:03>> Bronze is going to handle the winters up

40:05here.

40:05>> I guess that's a true.

40:07>> I mean, we could, um

40:10get the archaeology students to talk to

40:11the art students. They can do bronze

40:13pours up at the university.

40:17You think they would do it as like a

40:18project?

40:20>> Um the sculpture classes are already

40:21doing bronze Well, they used 20 years

40:24ago they used to do bronze pours

40:27in the sculpture program.

40:29I have some in my house, but

40:32uh

40:33not mine.

40:34But

40:36uh

40:36yeah, so that is something that they

40:38could do have the capacity to do.

40:45Bronze melts at a surprisingly low

40:47temperature.

40:49>> Well, um

40:51any of you are welcome to reach out to

40:53the art students. If you don't have

40:54time, we can take that on, but I mean

40:56that's certainly within your purview as

40:58commissioners.

40:59You want to see if maybe they take that

41:01on as a project.

41:03We don't have to wait for grant funding.

41:06>> So, Anya, just like a functional

41:08question, if one of the commissioners

41:09was to reach out,

41:11would you want to be copied on the

41:13emails? What's the What's the procedure

41:15to do it the right way?

41:17>> I mean, I don't have to be, but it'd

41:19probably be good so I'm kept in the

41:20loop.

41:21You know.

41:22>> Probably good too just for

41:24sunshine or whatever.

41:26>> Exactly.

41:26>> Yeah, that way the city's in the loop or

41:28someone pulled you in for whatever

41:30reason.

41:31>> Yeah.

41:32>> That's why I asked.

41:32>> Yeah.

41:36No, I got I got me an idea too of

41:37reaching out to the archaeology

41:38department there and maybe about cannon

41:41recording, the city's cannon.

41:43Getting some recordings of one of those,

41:45paperwork for the city, that way y'all

41:47can track them while they're breaking

41:48down and and degrading.

41:50Especially that one down by the river.

41:53It needs some TLC. The one over here is

41:54in pretty good shape, the Spanish one.

41:56>> Yeah, that's bronze.

41:59Probably.

42:00>> Yeah.

42:00>> Trying to think.

42:02>> There's an a steel or iron one that's in

42:04really tough shape.

42:05>> I think that's the one Yeah, I think

42:06that's the one down by the river.

42:07>> Yeah.

42:08>> Yeah, and then there's another one in

42:09front of

42:11Historical Society, right?

42:12>> Mhm. That one's also in

42:15>> Is it still there or did they move it?

42:17>> think it's there.

42:18>> Oh, I remember it being there.

42:19>> I remember it used to be.

42:20>> there.

42:20>> I was just there the other day and I

42:22didn't even register.

42:24>> It might be just stored someplace else.

42:32We just

42:35>> [clears throat]

42:35>> did the whole yard over.

42:37Following the fence went in there.

42:40And messed up the yard so bad.

42:42Put sod down.

42:45Anyway.

42:48All good ideas.

42:50>> Yeah.

42:51>> There's never a lack of historic

42:52preservation work to do.

42:59>> Yeah.

43:03>> Mhm.

43:04I wonder

43:06Should I maybe look up something real

43:07quick while I'm thinking about it.

43:09I believe Maine Archaeology Month is

43:11coming up.

43:15I want to say that's in October.

43:20Yep, October is Maine Archaeology Month.

43:23So, that might be something worth

43:24highlighting

43:26on um

43:27>> And you said '76? Anything before '76?

43:30When was Carrie um

43:32When did the book Carrie come out? That

43:34was a little bit before then?

43:36>> The genre that I don't typically read.

43:39In fact, no idea what it would be.

43:40>> Is Stephen King technically historical

43:42property?

43:43>> Technically.

43:45Star Wars is historical property.

43:47>> Amazing.

43:47>> Like we have we have some some trainings

43:49that we give to some of our staff and in

43:50the trainings we have pictures of like

43:52sites where they found

43:54Star Wars figurines or like where there

43:56used to be houses, neighborhoods, and

43:57stuff. And it's like, yeah, these are

43:59historic objects cuz these are like

44:00episode four

44:02Luke Skywalker or whatever.

44:04>> Datable material.

44:05>> Datable material. It's just yeah, and

44:07it's over 50 years of age. So, because

44:09typically in historic preservation,

44:10right, it's anything 50 years and and

44:12greater. And what I always tell like my

44:14staff is if they run into buildings,

44:15farm buildings, it's like you ask that

44:17farmer producer when it was built. If

44:19they say anytime anytime, you know,

44:22today or 2 years down the road for the

44:25implement that it's going to be 50 years

44:27of age, and we need to account for it.

44:29And it's just wild cuz they'll be like,

44:31"Yeah, '76

44:32is 50 years ago."

44:37Yeah, I know. The older folk has a

44:39little more of a Yikes moment. You know,

44:42when they start saying '86 is historic,

44:44then I might be be sitting there going,

44:45"Oh."

44:46>> Well, I I feel like creeping.

44:48>> [laughter]

44:49>> Yes, the endless march of time is

44:50coming. But, yeah, it could be a fun

44:52thing to highlight

44:54for Maine with Maine archaeology month.

44:56And this thing, you might be able to

44:57reach out to

44:59MHPC. They may have some material or

45:01some stuff, posters, or something.

45:04>> Is there anything in Bangor that you all

45:06think we should highlight for that?

45:08>> I mean, obviously the wrecks because

45:10Revolutionary War 250th.

45:12>> Yeah.

45:12>> I mean, that's never a bad thing to to

45:14highlight.

45:16>> Yeah, I think that would be a nice time

45:18to start bringing them maybe a little

45:20bit more to public attention.

45:21>> Yeah, especially if there's signage on

45:23the horizon potentially.

45:25>> That was the Penobscot Expedition.

45:27>> Mhm.

45:29>> Do you need I have a book on

45:33Not big, but

45:35quite a nice book about the whole

45:37>> Okay.

45:38>> That's the one right there.

45:40I can find it.

45:54>> Other than these two, I don't know. I

45:55don't think I have anything else to talk

45:56about.

45:57>> I'm sorry.

45:58I distracted him. Okay.

46:00>> Um do you all want to talk about uh

46:03potential dates for your next special

46:05meeting?

46:06>> Well, I think that's a good idea.

46:08We're doing them quarterly, correct?

46:11>> Yeah.

46:12It is tough with the holidays 3 months

46:14from now. Um, we do have a potential

46:16date on December 17th, though, if that

46:18works for people.

46:21>> Or should we push it into the new year

46:24and skip the holidays?

46:26>> And make it the next year's problem.

46:27>> 17th is

46:29>> [laughter]

46:31>> Um, we have

46:33>> I'm even still here, James.

46:35>> Oh, really?

46:37Uh, we could do January 7th, January

46:3921st, or January 28th.

46:45>> I I obviously I don't have anything on

46:46my calendar that far out.

46:48>> 21st.

46:51>> I mean, first

46:52>> We're going to meet on 7th.

46:53>> 7th?

46:53>> Yes.

46:55So, I think then the 21st is really the

46:5720th.

46:58>> I think we're actually meeting the

46:59weekend between the week between the 7th

47:01and the 21st. I've got it on the 14th.

47:04>> the second Thursday, isn't it?

47:05>> Yeah.

47:06>> Yeah.

47:07So, 21st or 28th?

47:11>> Was there availability the 28th, Anya?

47:14>> So, there's 2 weeks.

47:16>> Yep.

47:17Um

47:1921st would be better for me if that's

47:20possible.

47:22>> I just pressure all have stuff that far

47:24out on my calendar.

47:25>> Well, that's 3 days before my birthday,

47:27so I'm making a wild guess that I might

47:28make plans.

47:29>> what?

47:30>> [laughter]

47:31>> That is fair. I

47:32>> Honestly, I'm thinking better of myself

47:34than I should. I probably will not have

47:36made plans.

47:37>> [laughter]

47:38>> I'm most hopeful for the 21st.

47:40>> The 21st is yeah.

47:41>> 21st is fine.

47:42>> Thank you.

47:44>> That's appreciated.

47:45>> Yeah.

47:46>> Okay.

47:47>> We can have a pre-birthday celebration.

47:50We just Do we have to have the meeting

47:51here or we can just have it at Chili's,

47:53right?

47:54>> [laughter]

47:55>> Bring bring the little penguin guy that

47:56we used to have.

47:59>> You had a little penguin guy?

48:01>> It was like a little like the owl. It

48:02was an owl.

48:03>> Oh, the owl.

48:04>> Do you remember the owl?

48:06When When we were upstairs in the old

48:08chamber.

48:08>> fan would keep zooming at random if you

48:10like with like sniffle and lock on you.

48:13Zoom right into your face.

48:15>> Yeah, that thing.

48:16>> Figuring out how that worked when first

48:18got it was interesting.

48:21>> The owl like the the thing like the

48:22recording thing?

48:23>> Yeah, it was that the little camera

48:24thing would sit there for Zoom calls or

48:27whatever and if like whoever was talking

48:29it would like lock onto them and like

48:31they would be on camera. But if you made

48:33any noise at all it would just lock onto

48:37you.

48:37>> And heaven forbid you had like like a

48:39cold in the winter you were the you were

48:41the star attraction.

48:44>> It's just yeah. It put you front and

48:47center. But then it would also because

48:49it wasn't just the one screen it had

48:50like other screens so you would be on

48:52the call and it would like have the

48:53person talking and it just be like

48:55bouncing between whoever's making noise

48:57on the other camera. That's Yeah, I hate

48:58those things. We had them at work.

49:00Um but that's not what we're here to

49:02talk about. So I know all the folks are

49:04ready to go home.

49:06Uh if there's nothing else.

49:07>> You were creating a historic document to

49:09let people know what the owls were.

49:11Yeah.

49:11>> Yeah.

49:12Yeah.

49:13>> It's the history of the HBC.

49:16>> [laughter]

49:16>> I I do not think there's any further

49:18business.

49:20>> Yeah, so I don't have any other business

49:21so I will use my one power if nobody

49:23else has anything to adjourn this thing.

49:25>> Beautiful.

49:27>> We did it.