2026-09-08 - Advisory Committee on Homelessness

01:39I lose.

01:40>> I lose this connection.

01:41>> Yeah.

01:42>> All right, it is 5:15. We're going to

01:44call to order this meeting of the

01:47Advisory Committee on Homelessness.

01:49Um, so today we do have a relatively

01:52short agenda

01:54from an items standpoint. However, the

01:58topics are going to probably take up

02:01quite a bit of our time, which is why we

02:02determined to leave this agenda a little

02:04bit lighter. So, our first agenda item

02:09is a discussion of the three plans that

02:11were submitted by community members.

02:16One by Sprague, one from Fish, and the

02:21Bangor Opportunity Plan, that one is

02:23Russell.

02:24>> Western Russell.

02:26>> So,

02:28with that, has everyone had a chance to

02:29review those plans?

02:34I will open it up for

02:36comments, thoughts, questions regarding

02:39these these three initial plans

02:40submitted by the public.

02:43>> Do we want to pick one and talk about

02:45it, and then pick another one and talk

02:47about it?

02:50Or do we want

02:50>> We we can. I mean, so when I was

02:52reviewing the three plans, it felt

02:55to me that they kind of were looking at

02:57it from different perspectives, right?

03:01Sprague's was really more of a

03:02community-wide strategic framework

03:05view on the issue, whereas

03:08Councilman Fish's was more like the

03:10organizational management piece of it,

03:15and then the Bangor Opportunity Plan

03:17being more of an implementation road map

03:19emphasizing the housing and public

03:21health and all of that. So, I don't know

03:23if it makes sense to start

03:25at the highest [clears throat] level in

03:27the plan that kind of covers that, and

03:28then work our way down through more

03:30operational.

03:31So, I guess that would be

03:38Sprague.

03:48>> Hello.

03:48>> Hi, I'm here.

03:49>> Oh, turning to Sprague's conversation, I

03:51really appreciate

03:52Mr. Sprague's

03:54attention down in the document and it

03:57obviously showed that there was a lot of

03:58activity in

03:592023 when he was a part of

04:02his activities and

04:03I appreciate the opportunity to have

04:05looked at it as the context of what's

04:07new now. That's kind of how I like when

04:10I had

04:11my review of this was what has been in

04:14place, what is new now and what are we

04:15looking at going forward.

04:17So

04:19how I

04:22My response to the whole thing is fine.

04:32>> Thoughts, comments?

04:39>> Well, I I

04:41felt like it was uh

04:43in the Roman numeral section

04:46So this is

04:47Ben Tree just for viewers at home. Like

04:50that we've had some concerns like who's

04:53speaking? I can't tell. So this is Ben

04:54Tree.

04:57Fair fair question.

04:59So I felt like this was

05:02like 25 conversations that could be had

05:06and so it doesn't direct anyone to do

05:08anything really. Like none of these are

05:10are actionable.

05:12And all those and it sounds like you

05:14could

05:15you could go in completely diametrically

05:17opposite directions and still be meeting

05:19that criteria.

05:21Each of the 25

05:24Roman numeral items

05:27The point is that the conversation needs

05:29to be had. So so he's pointing out the

05:31conversations, not pointing out like

05:32hey, you should do this, you should do

05:33this, you should do this.

05:35As opposed to Russell who's saying here

05:38are specific actions to take. That that

05:40was my main observation. There wasn't a

05:43conversation in there where it was like

05:44yeah, we shouldn't have that

05:45conversation.

05:47But playing five conversations is a lot

05:49to have. So, we probably do need to

05:51think about um

05:52any of those do we need to be involved

05:54[clears throat] with and how many are

05:56conversations somebody else can be

05:57taking the lead on.

05:58>> So, quickly, when did it actually come

06:00up the plan?

06:02>> Going from Sprig?

06:03>> Yeah, 2023, I think.

06:05>> So, do you remember the conversation

06:06that happened? I I just want I don't

06:07know the background. What happened when

06:09it came out in '23? What was the

06:11discussion and say, "Hey, you want to

06:13table this?" Or I don't know.

06:15>> I wish Counselor Sprig were here cuz I

06:18was not here

06:21in 2023. My understanding is that sort

06:23of as he was departing his time on

06:25council, he submitted the plan and that

06:28there was not much discussion

06:30>> Discussion to say

06:31>> at the time.

06:34>> And that was something he came up with

06:37on his own, was it the council charged

06:39him to

06:41>> It was something he did on his own.

06:43Yeah.

06:48>> I I think when I was reading it um

06:52and maybe I I don't know. I was not a

06:55good day or whatever, but it felt like

06:56it was very overwhelming for what we

06:58have to do.

07:00Uh because as I said, there's so many

07:01pieces that I could say I can make sense

07:03of except but I think it's I know

07:04reality-wise there's no way

07:06resource-wise I can make that work. So,

07:09um

07:10it's it's

07:12it's it's almost if let's say the same

07:14it's the same paper. You know, all these

07:16things. It's like you come up with these

07:17ideas, but the top three Christmas wish

07:19list is these three things. And then you

07:21work your way number two priority,

07:23number three kind of thing. And

07:25again, I didn't see that. So, again,

07:26it's up to us to figure out, but it just

07:28felt a little off of it.

07:33>> [clears throat]

07:34>> Yeah, what

07:38All right.

07:39>> And what you said kind of rings in my

07:41ears and I um

07:44you would said that they didn't the

07:46document didn't particularly produce any

07:49outcomes. They really just more of a

07:52view overview of the situations in in

07:55many areas.

07:56Um so what I did in my review was

07:59actually make a couple of things that I

08:01was I was compelled to in reading this

08:03document. Um

08:05because some of it rang true for me. Um

08:08I believe that the document talks about

08:10how fostering and and bolstering family

08:12homeless services in Bangor. That's one

08:15of the areas I would like to see

08:17um this committee really work on is

08:20um if we could say that Bangor has no

08:22homeless students, I I'd be pretty proud

08:24to put my name on it.

08:26And um I think it's something that we

08:27can do.

08:30Um

08:35It also talks about the outreach system

08:37as it was then and it really hasn't

08:38changed that much in the last 3 years.

08:40So bolstering outreach services in the

08:42Bangor area I think would be a good

08:45outcome.

08:46And um

08:48it talked about warming centers. They

08:50were just coming into play then and we

08:53have a few years of data on that. Um

08:56so one of the suggestions that I would

08:58make is making warming centers a

09:00permanent part of Maine's emergency

09:02infrastructure.

09:05And now it it's it's it's funded in

09:07through emergency services. The grant

09:09changes every year. The funds the funds

09:11are applied for yearly. There's no grant

09:15cycle involved. There's no guarantee

09:17that the funds would be there. Um and

09:19that's just the first concern around

09:21warming centers. So if we could focus on

09:23warming centers, I think every every day

09:25every time I come in

09:27>> Well, I think that actually was put in

09:28the

09:296-month plan we got in the

09:30>> Yeah.

09:31>> the plan and I could see this

09:33potentially

09:35addressing two things. One is obviously

09:36the homeless who need it. But you may

09:39also have a lot of angle residents

09:41totally whatever facing insecurity in

09:43terms of getting heat. They could also

09:45use it. So you almost can have a whole

09:47bunch of people

09:49and rather that we can help them than

09:51basically forcing someone home, you

09:53know, but

09:54elderly for example can't afford to say

09:56I got to give this up and I'll be home.

09:57So I think we can kind of, you know,

10:00multiple targets with that even the

10:02simple thing in the other six months.

10:04>> And when you say warming centers just to

10:05clarify do we need day warming centers,

10:08night warming centers, or both?

10:10>> Well, I think that's a conversation

10:12that's something we should probably put

10:13on the agenda as a standing item. And

10:16day and evening warming centers are uh

10:19um

10:21uh currently they're only they're

10:22weather related you know and they're

10:24they're they're temporary and so

10:26yeah, the conversation of extending that

10:28has been had.

10:35>> Although night is probably

10:37equally [clears throat]

10:37good but to night is when everyone stays

10:40home. So that's when they need it. Where

10:42in the daytime they could be busy

10:44running around for appointments and

10:45stuff so you don't need that as

10:47specifically.

10:48>> Um only if you're housed.

10:49>> If you're housed

10:50but even if you're not housed they they

10:52go to they used to go to appointments.

10:53So

10:54>> Which appointments?

10:54>> Like medical appointments.

10:57>> That

10:58I mean

10:59>> It's unfortunate.

11:00>> Limited and also a lot of our folks that

11:03are unhoused and

11:05the highest risk and often that usually

11:08needs the most visible are folks that

11:10have severe persistent mental illness

11:12and those folks struggle to get to

11:14appointments. So and

11:17that's only a small portion of maybe a

11:19day a week. So

11:22>> But having said that having made that

11:23point I want these warming centers just

11:25rather than just a place where you can

11:27sit down and stay warm. I think because

11:29it's intentional piece.

11:30>> And the ones that we have that's how we

11:32utilize them now, actually.

11:35>> Excuse me.

11:35>> But I I really did also think that what

11:39the point you made around folks that are

11:40vulnerably housed.

11:42Um, we see that even still in the

11:44summertime, folks get how they become

11:46wildly lonely and depressed and they

11:48access them during the day just for the

11:49socialization piece or for food or or

11:53warmth. So, I think there's great

11:55benefit.

11:55>> Yeah, I do worry this this winter

11:57especially with the fuel the way it is,

11:58more people will be at risk of this

12:00situation.

12:00>> Yeah.

12:02>> And I I think just on a point of

12:04clarification, I think maybe from an

12:06agenda point of view, these two things

12:07might be better off as separate

12:08conversations.

12:10Um, because the funding comes from

12:11different places and the expectations

12:14are slightly different.

12:16Um, it might actually be a better as a

12:19two agenda item understanding.

12:21>> I would agree with you.

12:22>> I would agree with you, actually.

12:23>> Yeah, so is is the funding for that

12:25state funding? Um,

12:27and so

12:30I agree this is important, but I'm not

12:33sure whether the state

12:35This is

12:36I'm trying to do the saying what who I

12:38who I am for the viewers at home. This

12:40is Ben Treuhaft.

12:42So,

12:44so I

12:45I I I don't know what impact we can have

12:48on

12:48if we're saying hey, the funding source

12:50ought to be stable, but then the funding

12:53source doesn't pay attention to us cuz

12:55they didn't

12:56bring about this commission. You know,

12:58is is one of them daytime is is like

13:01daytime funded through city channels and

13:04nighttime through the

13:06state or like are they both state or

13:11Yeah,

13:11>> [clears throat]

13:12>> I would presume

13:13>> Bruce, do you know the answer to that

13:15question? Um, does I know that

13:19nighttime warming shelters are funded

13:20through the state. Is the well funded

13:22through the state as well? I didn't

13:24think so.

13:24>> Volunteer, which just had that gentleman

13:26that ran the 100 miles. It just raised

13:29$17,000 for for them.

13:32Um all their stuff is through their

13:34church contacts and through

13:37pretty much that. That's it. Volunteers

13:39and stuff like that.

13:41>> And I know some of the day warming

13:44centers had a flood or some city funded

13:47support, right? And that was in a

13:49one-off like didn't break out some

13:51last year. Shut some funding.

13:54>> That was for the overnight.

13:56>> Okay. That was for warming.

13:57>> Yeah.

13:58>> But that came from city or opioid

14:00settlement or

14:00>> I don't know what where that fund came

14:03from.

14:03>> So we got a one-time general assistance

14:07payment that didn't have a lot of

14:09strings attached to how we used it and

14:11we used that to fund the warming

14:12centers.

14:14>> I guess my my point is gosh, it does

14:17seem to come from a lot of sources.

14:19Saying this ought to be permanent. Um

14:23it sounds like there could be a pretty

14:25significant price tag associated with

14:26that. So I I just I'm just putting that

14:29out there that especially if a lot of

14:31the funding or some of the funding is is

14:33from the state government. Um

14:35that makes it even

14:37harder cuz

14:38it's not funding that we actually have

14:40any control over or recommendation to.

14:42Yeah.

14:43>> No, but we could possibly help

14:46identify what those sources are cuz I

14:48would presume that there are a lot of

14:50grants out there not just from the state

14:52but from public foundations, private

14:53foundations. And

14:56>> [clears throat]

14:56>> making sure that the organizations that

14:58are operating these facilities

15:00know where those funds are. That could

15:03be a recommendation that we could make

15:04forward is

15:06is is there a resource for these folks

15:08centrally located that shows where where

15:10fund city or otherwise are available to

15:13help them be able to

15:15underwrite these things that we all

15:16agree are needed, but we also all

15:19understand come with the price tag and

15:20the city cannot just put a bill on an

15:23unlimited bill.

15:26>> A good point. Like we can't tell the

15:27state, "Hey, give us more." Like

15:29>> We can.

15:30>> We can.

15:32>> We can ask for anything we want.

15:34>> So, we should be able to say to the

15:36state,

15:37um with this funding should come some

15:38standards, you know, uh citywide

15:41standards, uh

15:42staffing ratios, um training levels,

15:46you know, something like that. Um I

15:47think that there's an opportunity to

15:50to in increase the

15:53the service tenfold with um

15:55a little bit of a little bit of um

16:00a little bit of preparation planning on

16:01this from this group, I think we could

16:02help a lot. Um

16:05in in in in in what they're doing and

16:07what their mission is every every year.

16:09Um

16:10you'll notice that

16:11warming centers specifically have

16:13cycles,

16:14and those cycles run about 3 months.

16:17Um the open cycle runs from November

16:20through April, but then there's the

16:22closed and planning cycle that's April

16:24through August, and then there's the the

16:27grant funding and and preparation that's

16:30August through November, and then

16:31there's again a second cycle of November

16:33through April being service provision.

16:36So, we're constantly cycling through

16:38this

16:39through this with all with with warming

16:41centers. What What part of the cycle are

16:43we in right now? People are looking at

16:45finishing up, spiffing up their grants,

16:47getting their applications in

16:49um

16:50>> [clears throat]

16:50>> right before right before they're

16:53viewed, which is the deadline is fairly

16:55soon.

16:56>> Yeah, we meet we we meet all through the

16:58summer, all the warming centers, and um

17:02Jen Lawler, who is the top coordinator,

17:04so we meet every month, you know, what

17:07do we need to do this month, and we're

17:09always getting prepared for the winter,

17:12you know, wintertime. So,

17:14we're pretty much on top of it.

17:16>> We meet with the board of the final

17:17lines for everyone's grant applications.

17:20So.

17:22>> And the grants are through the continuum

17:24of care, right? The

17:26main housing and the continuum of care

17:28sets the standards for those.

17:30Um

17:32there's a letter that comes in on the

17:34city has to support a letter. What I've

17:37always wondered what was in the letter.

17:38Does it just say that it's an occupancy

17:40or is there are there other other other

17:43things besides occupancy that

17:45>> That's just a letter of support, right?

17:48It lists, you know,

17:50what they've done in the years past, you

17:52know, how they support our unhoused.

17:55So, it's all set. Yeah.

17:57>> Thank you.

17:58>> So, we're talking about potential

17:59funding sources for for warming centers

18:01or what is if I can get caught up a

18:03little bit.

18:04>> Yeah, not particularly. We we're we're

18:05starting

18:07kind of the conversation with the

18:09Sprague plan and then it kind of morphed

18:12into a little bit of a

18:15you know, where where are the the

18:16commonalities between these plans and

18:18the need to warming centers came up. So,

18:21we've kind of gone a little bit of a

18:22tangent, but I think a worthwhile one

18:25to have this conversation. It helps us

18:27also

18:29wrap our heads around

18:30what we can and can't recommend or what

18:33we should and shouldn't recommend. I

18:35mean, kind of where our parameters are

18:37when it comes to looking at these things

18:38holistically.

18:41>> So, not specifically to funding sources,

18:43more generalized like

18:45>> Right.

18:47I mean, just to weigh in on

18:49the

18:50the matter of budgetary issues like

18:53that is really where I did the bulk of

18:55my

18:56experience was at a

18:59um

19:00Bangor is probably second most

19:02high volume

19:04warming center.

19:05And you know, what I can say is, you

19:08know, we did a pretty amazing job

19:12uh with what we but we were woefully

19:14underfunded.

19:16Um and the

19:18fiscal issues contributed to the quality

19:22of what we were able to deliver. And I

19:24think that, you know, if we could

19:25improve that quality, not only would,

19:27you know, it mean

19:29more lives saved and more lives

19:30rehabilitated because these people are

19:32more willing

19:33to take advantages of sort of to take

19:35advantage of services when they're happy

19:37and they're comfortable and they feel at

19:39peace

19:40um in their community, but it

19:43means that we could offset

19:46um some of the city's other costs um in

19:49dealing with like a full acute

19:50expression of homelessness

19:52by

19:53um putting these people in community

19:56with the provisioners of their care

19:59that they're going to be seeing anyways.

20:00I mean, a lot of people that volunteer

20:02and staff our warming center were people

20:04who were doing street outreach. They

20:05were They were street pastors. They were

20:08pastors of local ministries. They

20:10were recovery professionals. They were

20:12recovery coaches. They were in Narcan

20:14trainings, you know, so it's like

20:18I think that um

20:20you know, ultimately the squeaky wheel

20:22gets the grease.

20:24Um and I think what most people agree

20:26when they look at Bangor is that in

20:28terms of the unhoused

20:30crisis, we're a very, very squeaky

20:31wheel. So, why why dress ourselves up

20:33and say, you know, like let's put a nice

20:35price on this. There's not a nice price

20:37to be had

20:38here.

20:39You know, it's

20:41like

20:42this is going to take a pretty creative

20:45cut wherever we we draw it from

20:48to to create change. You know, like

20:51we're not going to just In my opinion,

20:52we're not going to be able to shuffle

20:54what we currently have

20:55and merely rearranging the pieces is

20:58going to create a We need an infusion

21:01of new resources and outlets to

21:05address the deficit that already exists

21:07there. You know.

21:09At least that would be my thought.

21:10>> Um

21:11>> [clears throat]

21:11>> So, if we think of uh

21:15Council uh former Council member

21:16Sprague's uh

21:19document as having 25 conversations to

21:21be had and Jay started us with a couple

21:23of them that uh the warming centers and

21:26the goal of every child having a home in

21:28Bangor.

21:30Uh

21:31another one that I think relates to some

21:33of the feedback that we got this week is

21:35uh number 10, uh work with

21:37organizations.

21:38Um I'll just leave out the names of the

21:40organizations, uh but to develop uh

21:43strategies to mitigate needle waste. And

21:45and I know there's work being done

21:47around that and and there's numerous

21:49organizations that are involved in

21:51various ways. Uh but I I think that I

21:54think that relates um to to some of the

21:57messages that we got um

21:59about I

22:01something that's a a concern for people,

22:03a problem for people. Uh certainly

22:06um

22:07that that could be something that we

22:08have as like a I don't know if that's a

22:10regular agenda item necessarily, but

22:13something that we could identify as

22:16a thing that has to be part of any plan

22:17that we come up with as is

22:20reinforcing

22:21needle exchanges and needle waste as as

22:25a part of that conversation that we need

22:27to have.

22:28>> And I think also that is

22:32something I hear about from our folks

22:34that are unhoused as well, that they

22:35feel strongly about needle waste as

22:39well. And the majority of our folks want

22:42to be able to either have a part in

22:45solving that problem.

22:46Um

22:47or have an easier way of

22:50disposing needles. So, and that I think

22:54concern is not just from our house

22:56community or unhoused community as well.

23:00>> Yes, I thought of that and that's what

23:02I'm hearing is more boxes and more

23:04needle boxes.

23:06>> Can I help clean up? I get that a lot.

23:08Is there a way for us to help, too?

23:11>> It's obviously not everyone, but there's

23:13there's a surprise. I think it was a

23:15surprise.

23:17It'll smile.

23:18That's what it is.

23:22>> Do you think your blood or generally I

23:23know a lot of house people litter,

23:26right? [clears throat] You know,

23:27and all the most house people don't like

23:29litter, right?

23:32>> This is truly not different.

23:35>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

23:38>> A lot clean.

23:41>> I've seen on social media that a lot of

23:42the unhoused are organizing and handling

23:45needles and

23:45>> Yeah. I've been prescribing a lot of

23:48post-exposure prophylaxis to folks that

23:50are trying to do well in their community

23:52and have had accidental needle sticks

23:54themselves.

23:55And because of the HIV outbreak are

23:57coming and asking for treatment after a

23:59needle stick. And this is folks that are

24:01housed, this is folks that are unhoused,

24:04um but feeling very strongly that they

24:05want to help clean up their community.

24:08>> Do we need words of wisdom on

24:12you know, like a public service on how

24:14to have to handle needles?

24:16>> Mhm.

24:17You know, no one else

24:19>> Can you say that a little louder?

24:20>> Oh, sorry. Um

24:22No, I have a public service on how to

24:23handle needles.

24:25You know, some people, you know, even

24:26the ones who want to pick it up, they

24:28just have no clue what to do.

24:30>> And

24:32we learned I think first were you

24:33involved in this when we were trying to

24:35figure out there are guidelines on

24:38certain websites that

24:40are different. Do you want to speak to

24:43that a little bit?

24:43>> the trash.

24:44>> Uh-huh.

24:45>> Yeah.

24:46>> [laughter]

24:47>> I really don't want to talk.

24:49Yeah, but I mean I think so the

24:51>> Conflicting guide

24:51>> There's conflicting guidance out there

24:53about what to do with

24:55needle waste and whether it can go in

24:57the trash, but for purposes of Bangor's

25:00waste stream,

25:02the typical guidance is to put the

25:04needles in like a used laundry detergent

25:07jug, and that is not good for us because

25:10of how our trash gets processed through

25:12our particular waste center. And it

25:15essentially creates projectiles

25:17that are very dangerous. So,

25:20so yeah, we have I mean, particularly in

25:22the city, we have a real challenge with

25:24properly disposing of the needles.

25:26>> So, what is how how is that challenge

25:29communicated to the public? Right. How

25:31is it done?

25:32>> Yeah,

25:33I I know

25:34some amount has been done, Bruce, but I

25:36don't know the details of what has been

25:39communicated.

25:40>> I don't know how it's been communicated,

25:41but I I do know that

25:43we have

25:44areas where we can they have all the

25:46count, right? That they can put their

25:48needles in. It's just people aren't

25:50using them.

25:51>> And and, you know, even like having been

25:54a primary care provider, it was not

25:56uncommon guidance for us to say, "Your

25:58diabetic needles, if you don't have a

25:59sharps container to put them in an empty

26:01laundry container or, you know, laundry

26:03detergent bin, and then you can throw

26:05that away." So, this also is helpful for

26:08anyone that's disposing needles, whether

26:10it's for illicit use or for private use.

26:12>> And honestly, when I in campsites, and I

26:15don't know about you, Amy, and a lot of

26:17these needles haven't even been used.

26:18They're they're they're

26:21They open a package, they use a needle,

26:23and the rest of the needles are just

26:25left on the ground. And so, I mean,

26:27that's what we're seeing when you see

26:29you go into a campsite, you see, you

26:31know, 30, 40, 50 needles we're seeing.

26:35Probably needles that have never even

26:36been used.

26:38>> So,

26:38>> Right now, we in the planning department

26:42are exploring

26:44the response by Casella and their recent

26:46pilot in the state of Vermont to work

26:48with a needle manufacturer to learn how

26:51to recycle those.

26:53Cuz if you layer the EPA and the

26:55recycling aspect on disposal,

26:59there there could be some

27:01work to be done there with getting

27:03someone to actually dispose of

27:06at medical facilities, but then also in

27:08the general waste.

27:11>> Um I was going to say, so what does this

27:13waste management facility um

27:16prefer? I mean, what would they be

27:18capable of handling? Because shouldn't

27:19we, you know, sort of

27:21work from the top down if if that in

27:23terms of our message, you know,

27:25especially if there's already

27:26conflicting guidance, shouldn't we just

27:27go with the pinpoint where where the

27:29where the bottleneck is? And I mean, is

27:31there something that they

27:34think could be used to dispose of them?

27:36That won't create projectile.

27:38>> I presume sharps boxes.

27:39>> Yeah, I I they don't want they don't

27:41want needles, period. I think this the

27:43sort of the end result. Um and I think

27:45probably

27:47I Am I correct, Bruce, that really and

27:50Gunnerman is the one who's paid the most

27:52attention to this issue? So, this is a

27:54topic that we want to dig into at a

27:56future agenda. I think Jen, perhaps with

28:00our public works director, would be the

28:02right folks to sit down and talk to you

28:04in detail and answer questions.

28:07>> Sounds like it's worth adding on to the

28:09list of priorities.

28:11>> I would agree and given the plethora of

28:15messages that we've received regarding

28:18the topic, I think it probably is one

28:19that warrants prioritization. So,

28:22>> Do you know is Jen

28:24going to be available for that meeting?

28:25>> She will be at your next meeting, yes.

28:27>> I thought so, but I just wanted to

28:28double-check. So, if we can add that to

28:31the agenda for the next meeting if

28:32everyone on the committee is okay with

28:34that, and then we can go with deeper

28:36conversation because it certainly sounds

28:38like this is a conversation that needs

28:40to be had. It also sounds like one that

28:41we might be able to provide

28:42recommendations relatively quickly to

28:45council on things that they can do to

28:47help.

28:48>> Is there

28:49Is there data on the sort of needle city

28:53exchange, whatever it is that we can

28:55have before the meeting?

28:57>> Yeah, there should be because the city

28:59Well, I'll say if the city has a

29:01contract with Wabanaki for the needle

29:03pickup and disposal, then we do have

29:05good data about anything that goes

29:08through Wabanaki,

29:10um which I think would be helpful to

29:11you. So, I can have that information to

29:13you.

29:13>> Something to give us a map or

29:15>> Brittany's hands up. I don't know if she

29:17has something for you.

29:18>> Brittany,

29:18sorry.

29:20>> Don't be. I'm sorry that I needed to be

29:22remote today. Um is there a Is there a

29:26map of

29:27um

29:28disposal locations for the city, like

29:31including where there are boxes across

29:33the city?

29:36Bruce, do you know?

29:38Isn't there one on our website? Sorry.

29:39>> I'm sorry. I I should have

29:41said that again.

29:42>> Um uh is Doesn't our website have a map

29:44of all the needle disposal locations?

29:47>> Yeah.

29:48>> Including the boxes across the city,

29:50just like

29:54I believe so, but Bruce and I are both

29:57waffling as we look at each other across

29:59the room. No, that's [laughter] okay.

30:01All right. [clears throat]

30:02>> It is on the city site, yeah.

30:03>> Do we have a rough estimate of what the

30:05total number of

30:07>> Yeah.

30:07>> drop sites are? I was searching

30:09>> It was what you were talking about.

30:10>> Yeah.

30:11>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

30:15>> That doesn't

30:16That doesn't sound like an abundance to

30:17me.

30:18>> to say that doesn't Yeah.

30:20>> Go ahead, Brittany. I'm sorry.

30:22>> Yeah, I mean, I was just I can take a

30:23look at the website while I'm sitting

30:26here, too. I was just thinking

30:27similarly, um that it it's really

30:30interesting to hear about the waste

30:33management stuff because that is such

30:35like widely shared information amongst

30:37syringe exchanges and other folks, too.

30:40And like there are some syringe

30:42exchanges that are giving out laundry

30:44detergent bottles or other things so

30:46that um

30:47so that things can be disposed of

30:50properly and I'm sure that there are

30:51many of our community members that are

30:53like spreading that information and then

30:55to hear that that's sort of counter to

30:57what we want to be happening I think is

30:59also a problem.

31:02So, thanks for raising that.

31:05>> And a great thing to communicate to the

31:08public.

31:09And to keep that important.

31:11>> Yeah, for sure.

31:14>> Awesome. So, we will make sure that is

31:15on the agenda for the next meeting if

31:18city staff can just have that

31:19information from Anarchy

31:21the exact number of

31:24disposal sites that we have.

31:26>> And the cost associated.

31:28I'm curious about that. City ones.

31:34>> I'm sorry.

31:35>> The city has three locations on its

31:37website.

31:38>> Okay, but I don't have the other four.

31:40Okay.

31:41Well, we'll talk about it right now

31:42we're here.

31:43So, so so if we could just compile all

31:45that information for the next meeting

31:47and then I think

31:48>> And the cost.

31:49>> You had a great point there the cost of

31:51operating those not just to install but

31:55somebody has to

31:56maintain that.

31:58That would be

31:58>> And also also I don't know if they have

32:01I guess a factor is like how how full

32:03are they?

32:05Um because like

32:07I know I know I know I know I know I

32:07know but the thing is I'm really curious

32:09because like how often

32:10you want to get rid of it and maybe you

32:12know clean up things like that because

32:14seven may not be enough. I mean I'm just

32:16saying

32:17>> I mean it doesn't sound like enough just

32:18throwing up a

32:19>> I mean if there's one that's like you

32:21know very low volume then obviously

32:23we'll place maybe without one there. I

32:24was just I was just don't know.

32:26>> What what I hear from folks who are

32:28unhoused and

32:29you know, I think everyone knows that

32:31that I like to be a bit of a problem is

32:33that like

32:35people don't really have a passion for

32:36creating needle waste, but they can't

32:39seem to find the needle boxes. They

32:40don't seem to be in the area where the

32:43use is. Um and so the people are having

32:47to uproot

32:49their schedule in one way or another um

32:52to get there or at least it wasn't, you

32:54know, communicated uh as we've said

32:57fully um although it's somewhat the

32:58needle waste probably needs to be like

33:00towards garbage cans.

33:02Because seriously, how otherwise have

33:03you seen a location? That means I have

33:05Someone has to hold on to the needle

33:06until they get to that spot.

33:08>> Yeah.

33:09>> And throw it out.

33:09>> I think all of these are great points,

33:11but if we're going to put this on the

33:12agenda for next week, like I let's carry

33:15this conversation next week and move

33:16forward with the conversation maybe for

33:18today.

33:18>> Two weeks nothing.

33:19>> Or two weeks. Sorry. Sorry. So many of

33:21these things I forget with.

33:24>> I'd like to move like to make an actual

33:26motion uh that we put winter um

33:30winter warming centers as an agenda

33:32item, a standing agenda item on our

33:35>> I think that's

33:36a good suggestion.

33:37>> Is there something specific related to

33:40winter warming centers that we want to

33:43to tackle or is it a very general

33:45>> I think it's a very

33:46general In my thinking, it's a very

33:48general

33:49um agenda item that something is almost

33:53always going on with a warming center,

33:54whether it's the middle of summer or if

33:56it's the middle of winter.

33:57>> preparation phase there and planning

33:59phase.

34:00>> Just giving the opportunity for us to

34:02pay some some quick attention each time

34:05uh

34:06what's going on at the warming centers,

34:08where are they in their planning and

34:10preparation,

34:11uh are they

34:12and how how can the city support that?

34:15Um

34:16would be

34:17just a

34:18a quick check-in. Each time.

34:21Even every other.

34:23>> Yeah, I'll second that motion.

34:26>> All right. We got We have a motion to

34:28put

34:29warming centers as a standing item on

34:31the Is that something you want me to

34:32give an update on

34:34>> That will be something. Yeah.

34:38>> Yeah.

34:39>> Okay.

34:45>> Yeah. I think we're good. We'll just

34:47We'll just make sure it's on there and

34:48we'll we'll get that out to you and then

34:50>> the

34:51>> Okay.

34:53We'll make it easy.

34:55All right. Anything else with regard to

34:58the spring for mobile and I know we went

35:00a little bit

35:02by by there but

35:04It'll be a good topic for the next

35:25>> You know,

35:26Mr. Spring identified mental health and

35:29substance abuse as an important part of

35:31a homeless response.

35:36It's just something we've got to

35:37continually continually look at and what

35:39are our what are our our mental health

35:41and substance abuse providers doing

35:43around homelessness?

35:54proved to me.

35:57>> And I also think that's something that

35:59when we're talking about communicating

36:00what work is being done to the public,

36:03talking about what services are being

36:05provided because I do think that there's

36:08Again, this was 2023 but I had already

36:11been doing street medicine for 3 years

36:13when this came out and it's kind of

36:15I don't think people are aware of the

36:17amount of medical outreach that gets

36:19done particularly with mental health and

36:21substance use disorder services. Like I

36:23got most folks don't know there's a

36:24psychiatrist that can do our have a

36:26street medicine team.

36:28Um

36:29And also, what work is being done and

36:31then if there's questions about what

36:33that means for clients and how we can

36:36get folks to engage because just because

36:38there's a psychiatrist on the team

36:39doesn't mean

36:40everyone gets

36:42wants to engage in mental health

36:44support. But, I think that could be

36:46something that could be communicated and

36:48how does the city support organizations

36:51that are doing that work because it is a

36:54very specialized type of medicine that

36:56people

36:58there's

37:00it's it really truly is a specialty

37:02level of medicine that you do need extra

37:04training to do and do properly with a

37:06lot of support in a way that's different

37:09than a traditional medical office. So,

37:11there are things, in my opinion, that

37:13could be done to support the

37:14organizations that are doing work or

37:17provide education for organizations that

37:19are interested in doing the work so that

37:22harm isn't done to the population cuz

37:24similarly, I'm not going into the

37:25hospital to do open heart surgery. I've

37:27never been trained to do that. I

37:29wouldn't want someone that has no idea

37:30what they're doing with street medicine

37:32thinking that they're going to come out

37:33and save the world. There could be

37:34incredible harm to be done to the

37:35population cuz they're quite vulnerable.

37:37>> I think in terms of medical and health

37:40and substance abuse,

37:42I think we need to figure out where the

37:44pain points are

37:46that you can quickly get

37:48resources there. I mean, street is one

37:50thing.

37:51Emergency room is another one. I mean,

37:53we are dealing with like half the time

37:54people are coming in and then everyone

37:55places to go and then you're stuck. We

37:57try to find places but we have no places

37:59to take them. So, I so I send them to so

38:01huh?

38:02>> Yeah. Can I talk to you?

38:03>> Yeah, yeah.

38:04>> Um

38:06So, you know, we were talking shoo

38:09uh in earlier sessions about creating

38:11sort of

38:12like

38:12webs of, you know, going through the the

38:15ecosystem of various resources, you

38:18know, uh food banks,

38:20um

38:21>> Yes.

38:22>> Mhm.

38:22>> Um and one of the things that we talked

38:24about is like sort of how

38:26there is the public narrative of what is

38:29available and then there's the actual

38:31narrative for every unhoused person of

38:33what's available, right? Because we we

38:35say every shelter,

38:36you know, wants you. And then, you know,

38:39if you're doing outreach with these

38:41individuals on a daily basis, you find

38:42out that that's not not necessarily

38:44approximate to the truth.

38:47And, you know, I'll say from my own

38:49experience, you know, um I tried to take

38:52advantage of crisis services a few

38:55months ago or weeks ago, whatever, and I

38:58found out a lot that was really

38:59interesting.

39:01I mean, one um

39:03one of my health conditions um creates

39:06like chronic skin lesions.

39:09And

39:10ultimately, um I found out that I had to

39:13see a medical provider, that they cannot

39:15furnish a medical provider if if you

39:17wanted [clears throat] to to see one,

39:19but I would have to see one

39:21um to be admitted or access crisis

39:23services, to even have an assessment to

39:25find out if you qualify, to even find

39:26out if you can or cannot use crisis

39:29point-blank. You can't have that

39:30information until you've had a medical

39:33appearance. And so, I got um

39:36medical clearance um

39:38and ended up like stranded at St. Joe's

39:40at

39:42like 6:00 a.m.

39:43And then they medically cleared me. The

39:45doctor was like, you know, you're you're

39:46the president, congrats. And I was like,

39:48awesome.

39:49Um and then I I found out that even

39:52though I was medically cleared and able

39:54to access crisis services,

39:56um well, not not able to access the

39:59the crisis team

40:01in their discretionary capacity still

40:03won't take me

40:04because they don't have any staff that

40:06feel comfortable addressing someone who

40:08might have skin wounds.

40:09Um

40:10and I said, that is just really curious

40:12to me because, you know, I broker this

40:15resource all the time. I tell unhoused

40:17people um

40:19and you know, I don't have to tell any

40:21medical providers here that

40:23they have chronic skin lesions involved

40:25with their

40:26you know, all the time you know, often

40:28times associated with their substance

40:30use

40:31uh disorder or complicated by it. And I

40:32was like, so what do those people do?

40:34You know, these intravenous drug users

40:36who have open wounds with delayed skin

40:38healing, where are they going?

40:40And they were fairly open with me. They

40:41said, well, they're not going here. Like

40:43they were very direct, you know, like

40:45we're not you know, like as much as we

40:46want to help those people if they're as

40:47you described

40:49we probably would tell them the same

40:51thing.

40:52>> And I think again, doing mental health,

40:55I have to

40:57kind of

40:58highlight I think when people say crisis

41:00service it doesn't mean a crisis

41:01services. So because the crisis service

41:03to me is always psych because that's

41:04mental health we can do that. And we

41:06would see I mean not we but I mean what

41:09crisis crisis service see no matter what

41:11the issue is because you're presenting

41:13whether it's home or emergency but

41:15promise the placement afterwards, where

41:17you going to go? So hospitals may not

41:19take someone because of medical issues.

41:21Shelters may not take someone because of

41:23medical issues or behavioral issues.

41:25That's the matter. We have patients who

41:26basically can't go to shelter because

41:27they're banned going there, right?

41:29Against the concept. So I it's like I

41:31they they they can't go anywhere because

41:33no one will allow them to come in.

41:35So I think they'll get the eval that's

41:37where what happens after that.

41:39>> Not everyone actually gets an eval

41:40though in reality.

41:42>> Like I like I said, I couldn't even meet

41:43with the assessment person until I had a

41:45medical clearance and I got it and

41:48I was boo-booed out of there.

41:49You know, and I just I wish that we had

41:51a way or we could

41:53create a way to shake these trees and

41:54find out, you know,

41:56um

41:57where the

41:59>> [laughter]

41:59>> the hidden pain

42:01>> [clears throat]

42:01>> points are because we know, you know,

42:03from our own speculation and from the

42:05feedback that we've gotten where people

42:07feel that the pain points are, you know,

42:09and there's a lot of commentary you

42:11hear, why are these people just

42:13languishing on the streets? Why haven't

42:14they gone to the ER? Why haven't they

42:15gone to crisis land?" They

42:18You know, it's not it's not that deep,

42:20you know? They they've tried.

42:22>> [clears throat]

42:22>> They've tried.

42:23>> They I have to say that the the

42:25landscape of crisis services is in in

42:28flux right now. It's changing. Uh the

42:31crisis receiving centers are are opening

42:34so that you won't have to go to

42:35emergency rooms to to receive services.

42:38There's crisis crisis mobile services

42:40that are are just now emerging. And uh

42:43they're both

42:44being um

42:46um

42:47they're hiring up with peer supports

42:49right now in both of those, which is

42:50pretty cool. So, you're going to have

42:52>> [clears throat]

42:52>> um a little bit more of a mobile service

42:55and a little bit of a service that's a

42:57little bit more detached from the

42:59emergency room

43:01uh for for many people. So, there are

43:04changes coming in so in in crisis

43:06services in the next few months.

43:13>> All right.

43:14>> Anybody else have comments on the spray

43:16proposal before we move on

43:18next?

43:25Okay.

43:26All right. So, the next proposal that we

43:28reviewed

43:29we are lucky enough to have the author

43:31here.

43:33Councilwoman Fish.

43:34>> I apologize for being late. Today just

43:37got away from me and I apologize.

43:40>> Your timing was impeccable because we

43:42were just getting to you.

43:44Um so, what we've been doing just to to

43:47catch yourself up um is just kind of

43:48walking through these and allowing

43:50everyone to have a discussion. So,

43:52um I will open the floor for discussion.

43:56Councilwoman Fish is

43:59>> And I don't know that when I put this

44:01together, I was really looking I didn't

44:03know what to do with it. I had two or

44:04three months um

44:06um to dedicate to of the research and I

44:10went to the University of Maine resource

44:12directory, which is

44:13very helpful. And just wanted to start

44:16to see if we could accumulate

44:19what, you know, what our resources were

44:21with non-profits. Pre-COVID, they were

44:23like 200, 300. Post-COVID, they were

44:251,300 and I didn't know

44:28where they all were and what they were

44:29all doing. I wanted to have a better

44:31understanding of that. And I just got on

44:32the phone and started calling a number

44:34of communities in cold weather climates

44:37similar in population to ours.

44:40Only one or two were service centers.

44:42That's Bangor's unique for our size

44:45to be this small that we're a service

44:47center. And I just put everything that I

44:49found in a report. Not to make

44:51recommendations, but just to give an

44:53overview of what those two or three

44:55months provided. I just say two weeks

44:58old as November, December, January, I

45:00think. So, I thought I would just share

45:02that and see if there was anything out

45:05of these.

45:07I grouped with adjacent corporate so

45:08much time in both of those reports.

45:12I don't know if I can answer anything.

45:14I'm not the expert here. Like I said,

45:15I'm here to answer and I just wanted to

45:17share that for you all.

45:19Guys, uh

45:21you know, extrapolate anything that

45:23might be useful.

45:29>> Are there any highlights that you wanted

45:31to to discuss before we move over?

45:34>> I mean, I think the thing that I got

45:37excited about

45:39was and I I didn't bring I had like a

45:42book of notes, but one of the community

45:45um

45:46mayors or chairs I had talked about a

45:49hub like a theory of change.

45:51And

45:52that it was a 24/7 and I don't want to

45:54take everybody's time. I think we talked

45:56a little bit about that. And

45:58this particular chair there a community

46:00similar to our size. I think actually a

46:02little bit bigger, but they were not the

46:04service center. They actually were a

46:06community that used the service center

46:08that had the hospitals and more

46:09resources, but they paid a fee and they

46:12collaborated with that service center.

46:15Um

46:16to have a 24/7 crisis kind of a

46:18clearing, someone who call, and it's

46:20kind of a triage. And this person had

46:22all the resources available and could

46:24kind of quickly decide and make some

46:26calls as to where the best contact uh to

46:29handle uh that person out in crisis and

46:32that they had, you know, not not just

46:34someone with uh substance abuse

46:36addiction, but someone that might be

46:38coming to the community expected a job,

46:39didn't have it, didn't have any place to

46:41go.

46:41>> Could be somebody with a medical crisis.

46:44Uh I think a lot of perhaps our VCAT

46:46deals with now, but more than crisis

46:48thing. And there was actually two or

46:50three trained people that knew all the

46:52resources and knew how to quickly be

46:54able to act on that because I think um

46:58before someone had mentioned,

46:59unfortunately the way we work now

47:02when they're in crisis, they need they

47:04need help at that time. And by the time

47:06we're getting to them

47:07the crisis has passed or they've moved

47:09on and we can't find them. So um

47:12in this particular a counselor said,

47:14"We're very happy to participate." There

47:17was money somehow they had a working

47:19agreement with the service community and

47:21they contributed money and they

47:22contributed somehow there was a

47:24collaboration. And uh they were very

47:27happy to be part of that service

47:28community contribute to it.

47:30So um

47:31I thought

47:32that was

47:33>> I think

47:34>> I think though I think this came up in

47:35one of our previous meetings about

47:37having a

47:38like what we're calling concierges, like

47:40you can call them if some if they they

47:42they don't know where to go and someone

47:44can tell them where, but I think along

47:46that line we it's we need to figure they

47:49this whole thing needs to have a system

47:50of warm handoff.

47:52Like they would say, "Yeah, Amy is a

47:54resource." I'm going to say, "I got to

47:55be a way to pass on even let's just say

47:57call for go there but the people never

47:59do that. Or people put no no no how to

48:01do that. They say no no no just they try

48:03to say no and they don't know how to

48:04navigate it. So, um

48:07uh it's like a 988 for the for this kind

48:10of stuff.

48:11>> It's 211.

48:12>> It's 211, yeah.

48:15>> I think it's a I think it's a tremendous

48:16idea. I mean, obviously we do have like

48:18211 but we don't have resource brokers

48:21who are dedicated to this sector of

48:25crisis.

48:26Um

48:27and I also think that the like if we

48:29were to create or even explore the idea

48:31of the concept,

48:34you know,

48:35uh [clears throat]

48:37>> Do we need a

48:38need a a warm hand off to get anyone to

48:40take advantage of the services?

48:42>> Can I ask a quick Bruce, how often do

48:44you warm hand somebody off if you

48:46interact with somebody that that needs

48:48services, met somebody?

48:50All the time.

48:52>> Every day.

48:53>> Yeah, call Amy all the time.

48:55It's always calling someone to

48:57>> I call you?

48:58>> Yes. We're always all calling each other

49:01uh to make sure the person gets the

49:02resources that they need. Um

49:05so I yeah, I mean it's all of our jobs

49:08are that. I mean, if Amy like person

49:10call me, Pat calls, you know, we're

49:13always kind of working with each other.

49:15Um we did at the Hope House at one time

49:18years ago had a phone. It was a a line

49:22that we had open to um

49:25to do exactly what you were talking

49:26about. People could call, they call that

49:28number

49:30and we do like a diversion. Like we talk

49:33through their situation with them so

49:35that maybe we can help them get back to

49:37a family member or maybe we can help

49:39them get back into some whatever their

49:41situation is or we can help them get

49:43into a shelter. So, I mean, we did that

49:45for

49:46two or three years, right? Um and so and

49:49then I think that number got out there

49:50so everyone knew that number.

49:52Um and I think it was posted on some

49:54websites and stuff.

49:56Um

49:57and I think it worked really well,

49:58honestly.

49:59>> I think we have a like a great structure

50:02>> Yeah.

50:02>> um informally for the warm handoff

50:05community of it, but there's there's no

50:07like centralized human

50:10and the majority of our folks don't have

50:12phone access and phone access

50:14consistently. So, we think a working

50:16order or a place where folks can go at

50:19least during business hours that they

50:21can connect to.

50:22Um

50:23But yeah, I think there's a lot of good

50:25already going on. There's

50:26>> And then I know that the police police

50:28liaison will be able to do the same

50:29thing, too. They do a warm handoff,

50:31whatever services they do. But the one

50:34But the one thing to remember though,

50:35each of these warm handoff, how much

50:37time does it take? A lot of time. So, if

50:39you have multiple people calling, you

50:40can freeze the line because of the fact

50:42that you don't have enough people to

50:44pass the you know,

50:46the handoff.

50:47>> Well, and it also, at least from

50:50like state clinician's perspective,

50:52the amount of time that's non-billable

50:55hours

50:56for some organizations, again, just

50:59reinforces the fact that there's not a

51:00lot of community organizations that are

51:03able to continue doing the work because

51:04it's wildly expensive and it's not

51:06reimbursable.

51:08The folks that are still doing the work

51:09have figured out the workarounds to stay

51:11sustainable, and usually what that means

51:14is you have a small group of people that

51:15are doing a lot of non-paperwork.

51:18>> And unless unless the warm handoff is to

51:23a place where

51:24you can fill, and that's actually as a

51:27feeder system. So, you know, yeah, the

51:29somebody that works. I mean, some of

51:30those like you got some of our patient

51:31services, you know they're not going to

51:32make money, but you know they're feeding

51:34patients to you, kind of thing like

51:36that.

51:36>> However, if you're expected to meet a

51:39productivity expectation, and I have 10

51:43hours of patient time, and I have to do

51:4410 hours of patient time, somewhere in

51:47there I also do additional 5 hours of

51:49warm handoff time. That's it's just the

51:52reality of it is it's a systems issue

51:54that is far above the city's level. That

51:57more to do with the healthcare

51:58reimbursement.

51:59>> Well, and I think one of the larger

52:01issues is

52:03Oh, sorry. Is there's a little bit of a

52:05lag, so I'm really sorry if I keep

52:06interrupting people.

52:08>> Oh, you're perfect.

52:09>> Okay. And one of the

52:11So one of the larger issues is that you

52:13know, some of these systems that Bruce

52:15and Amy are touching on really get back

52:17to the

52:18like the larger problem of like they're

52:20not permanent solutions. They're very

52:24like very temporary in the moment. Does

52:27this place have a single bed for

52:30tonight? Can you go into the overflow

52:31for tonight? Is there a bed at crisis?

52:34Can we get someone to the ED? And like

52:36and then we know all of those things

52:39aren't permanent solutions to the to the

52:42to the real problem. Um and so the

52:44infrastructure is important, but then to

52:46have the resources available

52:49to make sure

52:50to exist to have the stock to exist

52:53to make sure that people are there for

52:55longer than just a handful of hours so

52:57that the problem doesn't perpetuate the

52:59next day. I think is really the root of

53:01like what we're getting at.

53:03>> You can pass it again. You can find it,

53:05right? We offer we do street so I'll

53:07just use us as an example. PC she do

53:09street medicine.

53:11We have scheduled visits and then we

53:13also added walk-in hours. So what I have

53:15me as a clinician have an entire

53:17afternoon of scheduled visits and I will

53:19see anyone that walks in. So for

53:21instance Friday in 3 hours I saw 16

53:23patients.

53:25That includes mental illness. That

53:27includes substance use disorder. That

53:29includes traditionally scheduled

53:31patient.

53:32And you're getting phone calls for warm

53:34handoff. That for most folks is not a

53:37sustainable

53:38situation, which is why we have a hard

53:41time sustaining organizations that do

53:43the work because you either burn out the

53:46single person that's able to do it or it

53:48becomes financially unsustainable.

53:52>> But at the same time, what happens is

53:54if I've done it too, is the but the

53:56bottles one hand off this doesn't need

53:58to be done by me or you.

54:00Someone else can solve but no one's

54:01spending money for

54:02>> because you're having to pay for

54:04somebody that's not available and that

54:06just cost the organization money that

54:08they can't recoup.

54:09Which is again why a lot of these

54:11organizations are not financially

54:13sustainable to do this kind of work. So

54:15a lot of work is not reimbursable and

54:18it's very expensive to provide.

54:19>> And they're working numerous counties.

54:21Right.

54:23A lot of these workers are.

54:25>> I agree that it's not a permanent

54:27solution. I don't think that it should

54:30It's not the kind of It's not even the

54:31type category to speaking of issue that

54:34should be addressed at the Passion

54:35Project by providers who are doing

54:37gorilla case management in between

54:40um seeing their patients and trying to

54:43provide for their families. I don't

54:45think that that, you know,

54:47just looking at the the calculus is

54:49going to

54:50uh work well forever um or even ongoing.

54:54I think it would be great like Counselor

54:57Fish said to have like a durable

55:00um

55:01you know, outright um

55:03solution and I know that in

55:05um

55:07an earlier session or maybe even before

55:09[clears throat] this um group of us had

55:10a panel,

55:11the city created an RFP

55:14um I applied for um

55:17a shelter program, a daytime shelter

55:19program, and it even specifically

55:21included a shuttle service.

55:24I think, you know, if we're if we're

55:26already doing an RFP for that, you know,

55:29we're uh sent cognitively saying that

55:31that is something that we would think

55:33over, you know, why not do it for

55:35something like this? say

55:37we'll um do an RFP for

55:40you know, a recovery center or

55:43um

55:44medical institution, church, all of

55:47these sort of um

55:49institutions who are covering

55:52homelessness

55:53and say, you know, we'll give you a

55:55certain amount of money to hire these

55:58community advocates or whatever you want

56:00to call them, you know,

56:03and they can operate the warm line and

56:07um broker those services. And if again,

56:10if we're already they've already carved

56:12some

56:13mental space for a

56:17uh shuttle service, bundle it with that

56:19in some way or another, you know, say,

56:21"Okay, well, you know, it's

56:24this hour. Obviously, you're not going

56:26to be able to hop on the bus and get to

56:30you know,

56:31wherever you might need to go or

56:32wherever you need to go.

56:34Um

56:35But luckily, you know, our partner

56:37agency or maybe even if it's in the

56:39agency itself, it's a recovery center or

56:41church. Maybe it's already there. You

56:43know, but there's a shuttle service that

56:45we can broker you to or and we'll

56:48pop you right down there.

56:50>> So, what Whitney Boilan has a whole Is

56:52it the home team they have in? Home van?

56:55Yeah.

56:56>> Yeah.

56:57>> If I remember, I visited that years ago

56:59and that that was um

57:01Was that funded by like downtown

57:03businesses and um the hospitals,

57:06correct?

57:07>> Yeah, I don't know about the hospital

57:09systems anymore, but it was partially

57:10funded by the Portland Downtown District

57:12for a number of years. Um

57:15and then yeah, and Milestone runs it and

57:17so I don't know I know they get some

57:19city CDBG funding and so like I'm not

57:23sure how else they piece it together,

57:25but yeah.

57:26>> I I went for I went for a ride with them

57:28one day and the amount of work that they

57:30do to help people's amazing and at that

57:34time this this city didn't need

57:36something like that. But I believe that

57:38we probably do now.

57:40>> Was is that coming out of the Portland

57:42service center?

57:44>> No.

57:45>> No.

57:46>> Okay.

57:46>> No, it's part of them it's part of

57:48Milestone Shelter.

57:52>> Yeah, I think that

57:54whenever

57:56we're

58:01sort of

58:03asking this painful money question of

58:05like

58:06any anything creative that we do is

58:08going to be associated with that. So we

58:09really created tough.

58:11We should be looking at our our business

58:13partners and people who actually are

58:16going to be saving themselves money by

58:20you know,

58:21joining up by

58:25by contributing. Like we should be

58:26looking at at those people who

58:28are already, you know, experiencing

58:31um

58:33a burden or some pain or discomfort, you

58:35know, on a on a business

58:37uh standpoint like the hospitals and

58:41businesses

58:44to this or

58:45putting into this fund um

58:48would actually save you money

58:48downstream, you know.

58:53>> So So usually you said formal committee

58:55too.

58:57>> And I think too that, you know, with a

59:00communication hub um when you are all

59:03that's and and deeply ingrained in your

59:05segment of day-to-day, but in the public

59:08I'm more, you know, everyday person of

59:10business and other business people, we

59:12don't even know ourselves who to call.

59:15So I think if there was if there was a

59:16clear announce and we even had you know,

59:19stand thing or or there was a

59:21well-known, you know, 211 with you know,

59:24other than just 911, but the clearing

59:26house where

59:28um I've had two situations in the last

59:30couple of weeks where I went to a

59:31listing I had and somehow on house

59:34people had gotten in.

59:35And there were there were a lot of

59:38needles and and stuff around that I had

59:41gone there before the showing, luckily,

59:44but I wasn't even sure who to call. I

59:46called Willie only cuz you know him and

59:47I said, "What do I do?" And he said,

59:49"Well, it's private property and

59:51technically I'm not supposed to, but

59:53I'll come and take care of that for

59:54you."

59:55I'm counselor, I didn't really know who

59:57to call. Then I was surprised I just

59:58figured, "Oh, Willie, he'll come get

1:00:00it." And he said, "Well, it's private,

1:00:01so really I'm not." So, I didn't know

1:00:03that. So,

1:00:05uh I think everyday people if they're

1:00:06encountering on the street, I think part

1:00:08of their fear is they don't know what to

1:00:10do. You know, I think everybody thinks

1:00:12they don't want to see them, they're

1:00:13scared of them, and I think part of it

1:00:15is, you know, where they're not used to

1:00:16You guys are used to it, you're familiar

1:00:18with it. The everyday person is not.

1:00:22Uh they don't know um if they are in a

1:00:26in a in a position where they can

1:00:27communicate with law enforcement well,

1:00:29or if not, you know, they they don't

1:00:31know who they should call to even help

1:00:33these people. So, if there was a person

1:00:36or if there was a clearinghouse of

1:00:38someone that was sort of well-rounded

1:00:40with all the different services and know

1:00:42who to call, and even for the public,

1:00:45that would be if it was for a ride or or

1:00:47person seems to be in crisis or I found

1:00:50somebody in my house or I've gone to a

1:00:51listing and here's a situation and I

1:00:54it's not safe for buyers to come in and

1:00:56you know,

1:00:57who do I have come help me in this

1:00:58situation?

1:01:00>> And I think that goes back to kind of

1:01:02what we talked about the last meeting

1:01:03about the communication piece.

1:01:05Making sure and we've talked about

1:01:07several items today that I think we all

1:01:09agree the

1:01:11public is unaware of

1:01:13How are we as a city getting that

1:01:16information out to people in ways that

1:01:19they're are going to receive it?

1:01:21I will tell you until I joined the

1:01:22committee, I've never been on a C event

1:01:24website. So if you're just posting it on

1:01:26the website

1:01:28it's not getting very far unless someone

1:01:30is actively regularly looking for it. We

1:01:33have to proactively try to get that

1:01:35information out to people.

1:01:37You don't want them

1:01:39having that negative experience and

1:01:41going what am I supposed to do because

1:01:43now they're in an

1:01:45elevated emotional state and less

1:01:48rational versus if you could hit them

1:01:50when they're irrational.

1:01:51I remember that Facebook post or I

1:01:53remember that PSA I saw on the news,

1:01:55right? Whatever it is.

1:01:57Getting that information in front of

1:01:58them.

1:02:00>> I think a lot of the folks that are

1:02:01doing the work love to jump in and solve

1:02:03a problem.

1:02:05>> [laughter]

1:02:06>> I'm sure it's really helpful, right?

1:02:09I know I would have.

1:02:11>> So

1:02:13what I'm hearing, I think

1:02:15um the idea of a hub is

1:02:18uh a centralized contact point of

1:02:20contact for triage and communication

1:02:22around homelessness.

1:02:24Um

1:02:25I I was wondering because we use the

1:02:27word hub in a couple of different ways.

1:02:29Uh one of them is the hub seven

1:02:31coordinator who

1:02:33uh we already have kind of a hub and the

1:02:34question that I had was how does this

1:02:36differ between from the from the hub?

1:02:38And I think you've answered that for me.

1:02:40I appreciate that. So you're looking for

1:02:43a point of contact someone could call

1:02:45and say eviction happening in a few

1:02:48months. I'm looking for plan A, B, and

1:02:50C. I'm still in the process and you can

1:02:52have somebody who would actually work in

1:02:54that way triage.

1:02:56Um

1:02:58I know the Bangor area homeless

1:03:01uh shelter has a diversion they have

1:03:03diversion funds and diversion program. I

1:03:06mean that's one of the places that folks

1:03:07call for diversion.

1:03:09Uh I don't know used to be go talk to

1:03:10Maria. I don't know if it's still go

1:03:12talk to Maria.

1:03:13>> Or Janice.

1:03:15Or Janice.

1:03:16>> Or Janice.

1:03:16>> Janice is at the forefront.

1:03:18>> So,

1:03:18>> um um

1:03:19>> Which I have to Sorry to interrupt real

1:03:21quick, but I have to say that the

1:03:22diversion program has definitely been

1:03:24more of an active role in what I do, and

1:03:27my communications with them has been

1:03:29top-notch. Um they It's It was very

1:03:32difficult not long ago trying to get

1:03:35somebody I don't want to ever evict

1:03:37anyone, but it has to come to that.

1:03:39Still trying to find them support, but

1:03:41or get funds so they're not unhoused.

1:03:44And

1:03:46just recently, like I've really have

1:03:48worked well with them, and they they've

1:03:49saved a few people, and now we're

1:03:52working on, you know, payment plans with

1:03:54those people and so forth. So,

1:03:56that is a great

1:03:58>> safety net of the map for people.

1:03:59>> They really do. It has been It has been

1:04:02a lifesaver for many recently.

1:04:05>> You know, they're not well-known either.

1:04:07Like Like at

1:04:09Together Place, like I'm always harping

1:04:10about the diversion fund, and everyone

1:04:12is like, "What are you talking about?

1:04:13You just send them to a person."

1:04:14>> And honestly, as you know, a landlord,

1:04:17it was when I

1:04:19first heard it, it was a phone call, and

1:04:21someone said they're coming. And I'm

1:04:21like, "Okay, I know all these, you know,

1:04:23funds. I'm trying to get to GA. I'm

1:04:25trying to get to wherever I can." And I

1:04:27was like, "You're who?

1:04:29>> [laughter]

1:04:29>> You're what?"

1:04:30And I was like, "This is amazing. Okay,

1:04:32let me learn more." But they The

1:04:34staffing has been great and very The

1:04:37communication has been great. The

1:04:40follow-up has been great, which is

1:04:41really what is needed.

1:04:43Because I can, you know,

1:04:46we try to take the extra step to make

1:04:49all these contacts, but it's nice to

1:04:50have somebody responding and staying on

1:04:53us as well to say, "Okay, you know, I

1:04:56can gather We can give them this. What

1:04:57if What can we work out for the

1:04:59remaining?" You know, and then working

1:05:01together, which is key to keep people

1:05:05to keep them housed. So, just on a side

1:05:08note of that, like I It's definitely

1:05:09been

1:05:10>> We should celebrate, for sure.

1:05:11>> Yeah, it's definitely been

1:05:13It's good to celebrate.

1:05:14>> I think in house I think that no, she

1:05:16would be the person for diversion, but

1:05:18it would be one place like if I happen

1:05:20to walk into a listing, who would I

1:05:22call? If there was one number or or

1:05:24someone found someone that was in crisis

1:05:27or there's a whole multitude. This is

1:05:29when you call BCAT or this is when to

1:05:31call this person. So it would be nice if

1:05:33there was a 24/7 in a really common way

1:05:36to get that number out so that it would

1:05:38help

1:05:40the rest of the community who that's not

1:05:42partial professional who don't know also

1:05:45how they could communicate. Maybe you

1:05:47guys need to be able to know who's you

1:05:49know, you all know who to call, but the

1:05:52rest of the community don't know.

1:05:54>> And I can't stress this enough. Have

1:05:56some kind of place that folks that don't

1:05:58have a phone can walk into.

1:05:59>> Yeah, for sure.

1:06:00>> In the same way HCS has their lobby

1:06:02support.

1:06:03>> Which is why I think dropping this over

1:06:05to like a recovery center is great

1:06:07because one, that's almost what they

1:06:08spend the whole day doing. Like that is

1:06:11like one of the biggest ways we build

1:06:13recovery muscle is by brokering

1:06:16resources and letting people know that

1:06:18they are resource on a daily basis.

1:06:20Um and a lot of people just don't know

1:06:22what's out there um

1:06:24or if the landscape has changed. Um and

1:06:27I just think like recovery centers are

1:06:28doing that who sort of in the same way

1:06:30that you know, you were talking where

1:06:31they're burning their wicks at both end

1:06:33ends not sure how to

1:06:35get compensated for this. Um

1:06:38and

1:06:39you know, if they are they're designed

1:06:42to be walked and they're designed to be

1:06:44uh

1:06:44accessible. They're designed to be

1:06:47uh

1:06:48low barriers.

1:06:50So like they're already places where do

1:06:52those factors

1:06:55alienate some of the population that may

1:06:58need those services?

1:07:00I mean we've talked a little bit about

1:07:02folks with high expectation versus low

1:07:04entry. Uh those with the high

1:07:05expectation less likely to go to a

1:07:09recovery center to get those services

1:07:12versus a centralized hub that is

1:07:17not focused on a specific subset within

1:07:21the house.

1:07:21>> The folks These folks are on a

1:07:22continuum. They're not on the one point

1:07:25that's the same thing as that. So,

1:07:26there'll be times when they feel the gap

1:07:28and then there are times when they can

1:07:30manage and there are other times when

1:07:31they can't and they want the help. So, I

1:07:34think we have to back to that, you know,

1:07:36even though

1:07:37the low

1:07:39whatever expectation ones, they still

1:07:41have moments when they can do much more

1:07:43stuff on their own. It's all at the end

1:07:45of the day it's a crisis. If there's no

1:07:47crisis, I they have more time to process

1:07:49it. But, unfortunately, these folks do

1:07:51live in crisis mode, you know, like it's

1:07:53like whack-a-mole process kind of thing.

1:07:55So, they they basically, you know,

1:07:56that's when they would need they would

1:07:59find benefit from this.

1:08:01>> From a public safety perspective, I

1:08:03agree with what you're all saying right

1:08:04now because if like Council Fish

1:08:06outlined in your proposal, is the the 24

1:08:09hours. Uh

1:08:11what we see is

1:08:13if somebody's in crisis in the middle of

1:08:15the night, that's when the resources are

1:08:17scarce or

1:08:18they may need help at 3:00 in the

1:08:20morning, but then if we say resources

1:08:23are not available until

1:08:24later, they may not seek the help then.

1:08:27So, that's

1:08:29you're all saying the same thing and I

1:08:30completely agree with you.

1:08:31>> Finally, if you think about it, when

1:08:32people are in crisis, that's when you

1:08:34can get things in. But, that's when you

1:08:37can't find anything.

1:08:38>> [clears throat]

1:08:39>> Okay. I just

1:08:40wanted to

1:08:41>> [cough]

1:08:43>> uh point out a distinction that

1:08:45something happened in the conversation.

1:08:47We have slowly moved from

1:08:49um talking about a hub to giving it a

1:08:52bricks-and-mortar identity

1:08:54uh as part of a recovery center. And

1:08:56that's that's interesting. So, it became

1:08:58almost as a service of the recovery

1:08:59center.

1:09:00>> Well, well, I think Council Fish said

1:09:03earlier in the

1:09:05this this

1:09:06proposition that the idea was to have a

1:09:08brick and or no, it was it was named

1:09:10full review to dialogue and problem

1:09:13people not having a phone. And I you

1:09:16know, it was said that like if the hub

1:09:17is is not going to be useful

1:09:19to and

1:09:21there is functionally no hub for someone

1:09:24who doesn't have a phone and those

1:09:25someones are all over Bangor.

1:09:27Um

1:09:28and so I think, you know, that is what

1:09:31we're we're

1:09:31>> I I think you're right. I think it kind

1:09:33of migrated but I think

1:09:35I think at the same time it's if we're

1:09:37talking about the same thing, right? I

1:09:38think we're all in agreement and now

1:09:40we've kind of gotten into the minutia

1:09:41which probably isn't the place for us to

1:09:43be today

1:09:45of where the said hub should be but I

1:09:48think

1:09:49it's pretty unanimous that that there's

1:09:52agreement, I think uh that there is a

1:09:55need for a central resource for folks

1:09:58and and not just those who are

1:10:01experiencing homelessness but also for

1:10:03the public to have those questions and

1:10:06run into situations the housed and the

1:10:09unhoused they need a single source to go

1:10:11to that is easy to communicate, it's

1:10:14easy for the city to share out there and

1:10:16say this is your resource, go get it.

1:10:19Not this is your resource for this time

1:10:21and this is your resource for that time

1:10:23and oh call BB for this one but Bruce is

1:10:26there if it's

1:10:28all the different things that that play

1:10:30into it. There's got to be

1:10:32one place housed, unhoused you can go to

1:10:36and you know you're going to get the

1:10:38answer that you need because it sounds

1:10:40like a lot of the resources are out

1:10:43there and there are people doing it. The

1:10:45problem is the lack of information and

1:10:47coordination getting people to those

1:10:49resources, having that central point

1:10:53hub

1:10:55is what it sounds like is missing.

1:11:01>> We have really good uh

1:11:03I mean, been doing this for a long time

1:11:05as Amy has. It is we have really good

1:11:07structure

1:11:08bones here and what we're missing is the

1:11:11gaps. There's gaps in this and that's

1:11:13what we need to try to figure out is how

1:11:14we fill those gaps really uh because for

1:11:17example, I'll use it when we find

1:11:20someone that wants to go into detox that

1:11:22and we get someone in detox, right? They

1:11:24go through that process, right? 7 days,

1:11:27they're back on the streets.

1:11:29Right back doing the same thing. So,

1:11:30that's a gap in our community that we

1:11:32just don't have it at the next place to

1:11:33put that person when they're ready.

1:11:36And um there's a lot of little things

1:11:38like that I think that we

1:11:40as a you guys as a committee we can look

1:11:42at um

1:11:44and see what we're doing really well cuz

1:11:45we do a lot of things really well in

1:11:46this community. Um I mean, we have a low

1:11:49barrier shelter. We have you know, the

1:11:53downtown shelter which is a little bit

1:11:54different um

1:11:56is a

1:11:57you know, higher barrier too but it just

1:11:59a little different there what they

1:12:01allow.

1:12:03Um

1:12:05we have the PATH team. We have lots of

1:12:07stuff that in Amy's team, the Options

1:12:09team. We do really good work, the

1:12:12Together Place.

1:12:13Um we just need to figure out where our

1:12:15gaps are and how we can I think

1:12:18when someone's ready be able to fill

1:12:20those gaps

1:12:22um

1:12:22>> Uh so

1:12:24>> Well,

1:12:25>> Shh.

1:12:26>> I don't agree with you.

1:12:27>> What kind of agree?

1:12:31>> Who was that?

1:12:32>> Okay.

1:12:32>> I was just going to say something

1:12:34alongside that is that we do come up

1:12:37with really great ideas. We developed a

1:12:40tenant assistance program to fill that

1:12:43diversion gap, the one number that's on

1:12:45your fridge when it's all about to go

1:12:47downhill. But like we can't

1:12:50it's not unified. We didn't fund the

1:12:52program. We created it, we didn't fund

1:12:54it, so it sits there as here's another

1:12:57potential tool, but no one is sewing

1:13:01those together to say here's the Bruce's

1:13:04gaps and these ideas and we're going to

1:13:07kind of

1:13:08sew those together.

1:13:14>> Um, so just to kind of piggyback what

1:13:17Bruce was talking about

1:13:19um and not to get too deep dived into

1:13:21it, but I have um

1:13:23two boys that are have are addicts and

1:13:27had struggled for many years in this

1:13:28area and uh as a parent trying to get

1:13:32them help was insane. Um

1:13:35and they are both out of state in

1:13:37recovery and running one is running his

1:13:40own sober living now and the detox here

1:13:44was released in that 7-day and exactly

1:13:47what they're saying that gap almost

1:13:50killed him. So, that gap that is there

1:13:53definitely needs to be filled. The only

1:13:55gap I could find was in New Hampshire

1:13:58um to get him help and follow that path

1:14:02of saving his life, which was detox to a

1:14:07more strict

1:14:09facility that you know, these are your

1:14:11steps, you can't have your phone, you

1:14:12can't you know, you still have to urine

1:14:14test, screen test, you can't work yet,

1:14:17you going to then after that you go to

1:14:19this next level of sober living where

1:14:21now we're going to help you find a job,

1:14:23we're going to keep you in this

1:14:24community, we're going to bus you to

1:14:25meetings, you know, it was this full

1:14:28it's a whole thing and it has saved

1:14:29them. It's three, four years of being

1:14:33sober and but they cannot come back

1:14:35here.

1:14:36Um they they come back here they just is

1:14:39not good, right? There's there are good

1:14:41things happening since that took place

1:14:44and I think that we're starting to fill

1:14:46some of those gaps and like what you're

1:14:48doing on the street, what you're doing

1:14:49on the street, those necessarily weren't

1:14:51here when

1:14:53when we were looking for those that

1:14:55help.

1:14:56Um so that's steps, right? But I think

1:14:58it's finding those gaps because we have

1:15:00many that need help.

1:15:02Um and they just keep getting released

1:15:05back into the same pack uh that they've

1:15:09been in and it's all around them. So

1:15:12just my two cents.

1:15:13>> So

1:15:14>> I think also it's um I think we have the

1:15:16private sector as well that we could

1:15:18pull into this um in this clearinghouse

1:15:20because Fresh Start in I know a couple

1:15:23of realtors. I know Amy Baldwin, I can't

1:15:25remember if she's a realtor.

1:15:27Um

1:15:28or Whitney

1:15:30Whitney just opened in West.

1:15:32>> Yeah, and sober living that is great.

1:15:34>> Sober living is

1:15:35>> It it really is great. We're talking

1:15:37about people that are hard

1:15:39core addicts that have been doing it for

1:15:41a long time.

1:15:43And going into a sober living place with

1:15:46no really treatment is really not going

1:15:50to work for that population. And that's

1:15:52what we see on the streets, I would

1:15:54think, right? I mean

1:15:55>> It's a it's a it's like the stages of

1:15:57grief, right? Like you

1:16:00>> And having a great fit for folks where

1:16:02they're at is so important, but I think

1:16:03again having a hub and someone that

1:16:06goes, "Ooh, you'd be a great fit for

1:16:08this sober living core." No, "We got to

1:16:10get you the heck out of here." And this

1:16:12is who we connect you having that

1:16:14centralized institution, I think is so

1:16:15helpful.

1:16:16>> So we we've had the conversation a

1:16:18couple times about having a jail. Get to

1:16:20you in just a second.

1:16:23Bruce, is it possible to have something

1:16:25for the committee in an upcoming meeting

1:16:27that kind of maps out where those areas

1:16:31that are missing are? You know, whether

1:16:33it's a a journey map of, you know, if

1:16:36somebody's traditional I can and get

1:16:38something to get a structure together of

1:16:40what we have in our community and then I

1:16:42think talking through that as a group,

1:16:45you know, you can find out where those

1:16:47gaps are.

1:16:48>> That would That would be incredibly

1:16:49helpful. If the rest of the community is

1:16:50okay, I'd like to have that. Do you

1:16:52think maybe not the next meeting, but

1:16:54the following meeting? Is that enough

1:16:55time for you to prepare for that?

1:16:58>> And I'd also be curious to add

1:17:00for like vulnerably housed folks, so I

1:17:03think of things like meeting assistance,

1:17:04right? And all the things that as

1:17:07patients walk into your office and

1:17:08they're like

1:17:09"I'm hungry and I'm cold. Refill my

1:17:12blood pressure medicine." You're like,

1:17:13"Wait, what? Back up." So, uh

1:17:16I think when we're thinking again like

1:17:17it's a continuum

1:17:19of needs. So, the highest risk these are

1:17:23the resources that we have the

1:17:24vulnerable and then like, you know, like

1:17:26you're saying, "I'm a real estate agent

1:17:28and I walked in like this is what's

1:17:29going on." Um

1:17:32are so important even if we don't know

1:17:34exactly the information like I would

1:17:36imagine patients would be able to take

1:17:37it with one of the three numbers.

1:17:40>> Yeah.

1:17:41Check.

1:17:42Um

1:17:45I've heard that there's a lot of

1:17:46bottlenecks and it's funny to me because

1:17:49each one of them comes back to the same

1:17:50solution. So, I'm going to say it each

1:17:52time. I I've said it

1:17:54at the last meeting and the one before.

1:17:56Um

1:17:57Bangor has about 70 low barrier

1:18:01shelter beds and about 40 recovery beds

1:18:04at the Bangor Area Homeless Shelter. So,

1:18:06we've got a 60/40 split on recovery

1:18:08going on here in Bangor. Um the Hope

1:18:11House has a low barrier shelter, but I

1:18:13don't believe that they have a day

1:18:14program, a low barrier day program.

1:18:16>> people to stay during the day. I was

1:18:18going to ask you that, but they do allow

1:18:19people to stay in during the day that

1:18:20are in shelter.

1:18:22>> Yeah, it's just folks that are um

1:18:25it's only it's uh it's 56 beds, so far

1:18:29less than 70. Um

1:18:31>> I would like for it to be 70, but

1:18:33>> Yeah, and so people who are there can

1:18:36stay all day, but um

1:18:38but nobody else, unfortunately.

1:18:41>> So, looking at looking at a shelter that

1:18:44was a recovery shelter connected with a

1:18:46low barrier day program that are not

1:18:49necessarily connected physically, but

1:18:52adjacent to each other in the community

1:18:54and run together, I think this is going

1:18:56to take care of a lot of the bottlenecks

1:18:57that we've talked about. I just in my

1:18:59gut it just seems as though, you know,

1:19:0230 40 beds of recovery-focused

1:19:04sheltering um along with a low pro low

1:19:08low barrier day program, come as you

1:19:10are, come on in, but if you really are

1:19:12looking to put your shoulder into it and

1:19:14lean in, we've got a shelter bed for you

1:19:17and you can really lean into recovery

1:19:19and uh start a savings account, get on

1:19:21your feet. Um

1:19:24I think that's a missing point. We don't

1:19:25We just don't have enough of it.

1:19:28If I could copy and paste the Bangor

1:19:30area shelter, I would.

1:19:35>> I'm happy China Buffet.

1:19:37>> What's for dinner?

1:19:40>> I think there's a need for both.

1:19:43>> Yeah, I I agree. I would say, you know,

1:19:46I there is I think part of what is

1:19:49lacking when we like talk about this is

1:19:51that there is a continuum of needs for

1:19:53all sorts of people like Tony just

1:19:55mentioned, you know, it's like and we

1:19:56need if we don't have a spread of a menu

1:20:01of options for people,

1:20:03um we don't you know, we need to have

1:20:07the ability to offer people what they

1:20:09need in that moment. And so, um I want

1:20:13all, you know, 40 whatever beds at the

1:20:17Bangor area homeless shelter to be

1:20:19filled and the reality right now

1:20:21um and what we hear pretty often when

1:20:23like as providers we get a blast of what

1:20:26beds are available every day

1:20:29um is that

1:20:31there are many times that those beds are

1:20:34empty because the people that you know

1:20:36our community is talking about the

1:20:37community at large and the folks that

1:20:39are unsheltered in the parks

1:20:42or you know are living in encampments

1:20:44for one reason or another not able to be

1:20:47successful at any given time at the

1:20:49Bangor area homeless shelter right now

1:20:51because they're just not in the space to

1:20:53be able to

1:20:55rise to what you know the expectations

1:20:58that that shelter has and that shelter

1:21:01needs to exist so that when people are

1:21:04in a space where they can meet those

1:21:06expectations

1:21:07they can go there. You know the the hub

1:21:10coordinator that we just keep that we

1:21:12keep talking about Jen you know she

1:21:13doesn't reach out to Hope House anymore

1:21:16to ask us how many shelter beds we have

1:21:18available on any given day because the

1:21:20answer is perpetually zero. There's we

1:21:22we never have an open bed at the Hope

1:21:25House. Once in a while there's movement

1:21:27throughout the day where someone chooses

1:21:29to exit and we fill it the same day but

1:21:32there are never times that we're sitting

1:21:34with empty beds overnight. So sometimes

1:21:36the folks that Amy's you know seeing and

1:21:39on outreach or that Bruce is connecting

1:21:41with on the daily even if they're

1:21:43calling someone at the Hope House there

1:21:46often isn't the ability for them to get

1:21:48in to to any of those places cuz they're

1:21:50just or to to the Hope House I mean

1:21:52because there just isn't an option.

1:21:55Um

1:21:56and so when I think about the folks that

1:22:00the small population of folks that we

1:22:03hear people talking about it is the sort

1:22:06of like low barrier entry point and

1:22:09options for people that we that we need

1:22:12to figure out how to be able to

1:22:15have access to.

1:22:17Um

1:22:25>> Thank you.

1:22:26That was for you.

1:22:37>> Sorry, I can't hear you.

1:22:39>> Oh, I was just thanking you for for

1:22:41sharing.

1:22:42>> Thank Thank you, too.

1:22:44>> Um

1:22:45am I wild for thinking that the only day

1:22:48center

1:22:51sanctioned day center that is open not

1:22:53just to people who are already in

1:22:55a

1:22:57facility is the library?

1:23:00>> Brick Church is open Tuesdays and

1:23:01Thursdays, not five days a week.

1:23:05>> I mean

1:23:06so

1:23:07>> I mean, the downtown shelter has their

1:23:09day center that's open to anyone that

1:23:11would like to go in there.

1:23:13Um the Hope House obviously has their

1:23:15doors open to people that are staying in

1:23:16that shelter.

1:23:18>> Right? You said the the Bangor Area

1:23:20Homeless Shelter?

1:23:20>> They have their day center open. I mean,

1:23:22it's not big, but it and it does, you

1:23:25know, anyone can come in and out of

1:23:27there. Um

1:23:29the Brick Church is open two days a

1:23:30week.

1:23:31>> Does the day space for Bangor Area

1:23:33Homeless Shelter those still the same

1:23:35expectations apply as for folks that are

1:23:37staying in the shelter around meals?

1:23:38>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:39>> So, it's a higher expectation.

1:23:41>> Higher expectation, yeah.

1:23:42>> Okay.

1:23:43>> Um there's also the clubhouse at the

1:23:45Hope House.

1:23:46>> Okay.

1:23:47>> I think you need a referral for that.

1:23:48Yeah. I think you need a referral for

1:23:50that. And so, that again, that's a very

1:23:52low There's an opportunity for people to

1:23:54be at There are actually to help those

1:23:55issues to go down that path. Yeah.

1:23:57>> But in terms of the the gaps that you

1:23:59and Jay were talking about, like one

1:24:02thing that I know just from my own

1:24:04recovery, thankfully I am not in

1:24:05recovery from drugs or alcohol, but you

1:24:07know, I we all are in recovery from

1:24:09something, is that idle hands are the

1:24:11devil's work, you know, in in one way or

1:24:13another, like

1:24:15you were like you were saying, like I

1:24:17you know

1:24:18it is said all the time that like

1:24:21you know, it takes

1:24:23at least three

1:24:24you know, like relapses before recovery

1:24:26starts to stick, you know? And different

1:24:29people will give you a different number,

1:24:31but whichever number I think they're

1:24:33they're thinking um

1:24:34of how many times it

1:24:35>> It's done.

1:24:36>> Yeah, it's 2,000.

1:24:38>> Strongly done it, too.

1:24:40>> Strongly done it, too.

1:24:42>> And like right now, the way that it is

1:24:45where people don't have a way to get

1:24:46away from their idle hands, don't have a

1:24:47way to engage um

1:24:49the community, we're basically just

1:24:52putting them in a pressure pot. Like

1:24:53we're putting them in a crock-pot

1:24:55letting them simmer

1:24:56um

1:24:57right in moments and right in the places

1:25:00where the acuity is the worst. Like I

1:25:02know a lot of people who understand the

1:25:05compulsive part of their substance use.

1:25:07They understand completely. They know

1:25:09that if they are around substances, if

1:25:11they are around enablers, and if they

1:25:13are around dealers, that they will use.

1:25:15There's no question for them.

1:25:17That will happen.

1:25:19But

1:25:20this is where they can go. They can go

1:25:22to the Bangor Area Homeless Shelter

1:25:25where there are expectations, and go to

1:25:27the library, which is a library. Um or

1:25:30they can go to the Brick for 1 or 2

1:25:32days.

1:25:33For the rest of that time, they're in

1:25:34that crock-pot with

1:25:37dealers and people who are in different

1:25:39stages of recovery than them.

1:25:41And

1:25:42like a lot of those gaps, you know, I

1:25:44can't say that they were vaporized, but

1:25:47like if we were

1:25:48rather than putting them in a crock-pot

1:25:51of

1:25:52of dealers, if we were putting them in a

1:25:53crock-pot of community where they can do

1:25:55art, where they can do reading, where

1:25:57they can do play therapy, where they can

1:25:59have good conversation, where they can

1:26:01talk about their faith or their

1:26:02background or whatever, and they can

1:26:05engage in the wholesome part of Bangor,

1:26:07of the whole part of Bangor. Like I

1:26:09think that a lot of those

1:26:10gaps would really narrow very quickly.

1:26:13But we just don't have

1:26:15the space for that. That is truly

1:26:18full throated in its

1:26:20commitment to that. We have a lot of

1:26:22spaces that are like, "Hey,

1:26:23we're doing X, Y, and Z, but you know,

1:26:25why not throw in why not throw in a

1:26:27little bit of day space, you know, like

1:26:29it just doesn't

1:26:30cut it, you know?

1:26:33>> Is it a

1:26:34misconception by the majority of the

1:26:37general public that

1:26:40the majority of our unsheltered come

1:26:42away?

1:26:43>> Is it a misconception?

1:26:45Oh, you know, if you're asking me, you

1:26:48know, just to speak, you know, not

1:26:51empirically,

1:26:52major, major, major misconception.

1:26:55And even the concept of away is a

1:26:58concept that doesn't describe a lot of

1:27:00the unhoused well. A lot of these people

1:27:02were born in Bangor or have lived in

1:27:06Bangor since they can remember. All of

1:27:08their formative experiences were in

1:27:09Bangor. But,

1:27:12they're [clears throat] all over the

1:27:12country. They're they're train hopping.

1:27:15I can't tell you some how many people

1:27:17I'm talking to someone and they're like,

1:27:18"Oh, yeah, I'm I'm a Bangorian, you

1:27:21know, I was here,

1:27:22you know, I remember when the RVs was

1:27:24open or whatever." And I wasn't even

1:27:26here for that. And then they're

1:27:28they're like, "You know, and then come

1:27:30come summer I'm I'm down in in New

1:27:32Jersey and then I'm somewhere else and

1:27:34I'm

1:27:35train train hopping to get here and

1:27:37there, you know, I

1:27:39I think that one, you know, it is a big

1:27:42misconception and then two, I think that

1:27:45there are a lot of people who fuel and

1:27:47grow this misconception because they've

1:27:50realized they can use it as a tool to

1:27:52turn neighbor against neighbor, right?

1:27:54Like people stop asking deep questions

1:27:56about the unhoused once they believe it.

1:27:59>> All I ask is, you know, I myself when we

1:28:03had the encampment,

1:28:05um, I would, you know, if I crossed

1:28:07paths, I would just say, um, you know,

1:28:10"How are you doing? How did you here? Uh

1:28:13you know, where are you from? And do you

1:28:15have family? Do you have anybody to

1:28:16help? And from my interaction during

1:28:19that two or three months,

1:28:21um I had several people say they were

1:28:23from Dover, or they were nearby, or they

1:28:24came because friends were there. It was

1:28:26kind of their community. And um and

1:28:28nearly half of them told me, you know,

1:28:30they were from New York, Boston,

1:28:33Wisconsin. And um and I know other

1:28:36people downtown when they're running

1:28:38into them,

1:28:39a lot of people saying that. And I know

1:28:40our chief came to uh to an

1:28:43uh

1:28:44meeting of a couple of ops meeting, I

1:28:46think, and gave us stats that for 1

1:28:49month we had 40 new people that were,

1:28:54you know, that I think they're out there

1:28:55every day, and they kind of recognize

1:28:58people. And obviously in the summer

1:28:59there's more, but there were 40 or so

1:29:02new people. And the next month it was

1:29:04like 41. So, these are people that are

1:29:07coming back to a community or a family

1:29:09they knew. But we only have so many

1:29:11resources, and somehow we have to get a

1:29:13handle on um and you're right, it's

1:29:15complex. It's not that simple. But, you

1:29:18know, if Portland or or Roostick or

1:29:21Massachusetts or New Jersey or Missouri,

1:29:24I can remember speaking to uh the

1:29:26gentleman at the Wellness House.

1:29:29Um and he said strangest thing last

1:29:31week, uh we had three people from

1:29:33Missouri. Missouri

1:29:35middle of winter

1:29:36>> Oh, yeah.

1:29:36>> come off the bus. And um as much as we

1:29:39want to help everybody, you know, we

1:29:41only have so many resources. So, once we

1:29:43figure out what the gaps are, we have to

1:29:45figure out, you know, what we do have,

1:29:47what our limitations are. And um how we

1:29:50can help,

1:29:51you know, how we identify those we can

1:29:53help, and and how we can identify those

1:29:56we can't help, because we can't help

1:29:57everybody as much as we want to.

1:29:59>> Well, you're right. There are a finite

1:30:02amount of resources, and there is an

1:30:03infinite infinite amount of issue that

1:30:07needs to be

1:30:08addressed.

1:30:09I just personally don't believe from my

1:30:11own experience and my own work in

1:30:13advocacy that it is going to lead to a

1:30:16substantial improvement for away or for

1:30:19lifelong Bangor or for anybody actually

1:30:22to use a demographical

1:30:24um

1:30:25approach

1:30:26to

1:30:27um triage those resources.

1:30:29>> True. I think that it it where it will

1:30:31be important is when we have to apply

1:30:33financial resources.

1:30:36>> And and I I think counselor I think

1:30:38she's saying I'm not trying to speak for

1:30:40her but I think if I understand what

1:30:41you're trying to say is is one of the

1:30:43challenges we have to try to figure out

1:30:45how to manage is helping the people that

1:30:47are here

1:30:48not an influx of folks

1:30:51on existing right? We we don't have the

1:30:52resources to help the folks that are

1:30:53already experiencing it in our

1:30:55community. And when we're adding more

1:30:57people potentially

1:31:00potentially

1:31:01um it's only going to exacerbate issues.

1:31:03So how do we ensure that we're not

1:31:05adding additional as we're trying to

1:31:07have conversations about

1:31:09um you know

1:31:11catching people before they fall into

1:31:13the that that situation right? We were

1:31:15talking about that earlier some of the

1:31:17resources that the Bangor almost had

1:31:18right?

1:31:19Let's try to stop the

1:31:22dam the the water so to speak so that we

1:31:25can take care of the issue here and take

1:31:27care of the people that we have now

1:31:29already needing resources.

1:31:32>> I want to talk about that a little bit

1:31:33just because so for instance you know

1:31:35I'm not from Bangor part of the reason I

1:31:38moved to Bangor was I was single mom and

1:31:40I was dealing with a wild family

1:31:41situation. I needed to live in a place

1:31:43that was affordable that I could get a

1:31:45job and take care of my kid by myself.

1:31:48Which is not an uncommon thing

1:31:52to an area that has a resource that you

1:31:55see hope and future in.

1:31:57In the same way that I know folks that

1:32:00are from Bangor that moved towards

1:32:01Portland because they discovered they

1:32:02have a medical issue and there's no

1:32:04medical providers in Bangor. So, I think

1:32:07that's a really important line we should

1:32:08draw.

1:32:09And

1:32:12I again, I think having a space

1:32:16not necessarily even a physical space,

1:32:18but for instance, a hub.

1:32:20Let's use that as an example.

1:32:23I don't think because we have a hub of

1:32:25information all of a sudden people are

1:32:26like, "Let me go to Bangor. I'm going to

1:32:27get everything I need." Because the

1:32:29reality is

1:32:30the resources are finite. So, if this

1:32:34was 10 years ago, the housing situation

1:32:36say that Bangor's facing right now, I

1:32:38might not have moved to this area

1:32:39because housing is limited and it is

1:32:42quite expensive now. So, I think that's

1:32:44the other piece is if we're trying to

1:32:46set up

1:32:47um

1:32:48a structure that can serve folks that

1:32:50are vulnerable,

1:32:51it's hard to predict what next year in

1:32:54Bangor is going to look like. So, I

1:32:57totally appreciate that piece of it and

1:32:59understand that resources are finite. I

1:33:00just think it'd be really hard to define

1:33:03resources and how we limit them based on

1:33:09where this client might or might not be

1:33:11from. I think about some patients that

1:33:13are fleeing domestic violence situation.

1:33:15I think about folks that have severe

1:33:16persistent mental illness and their

1:33:18provider is here or they come here for

1:33:21medical care and they get discharged by

1:33:23the hospital. It's not the hospital's

1:33:24job.

1:33:24>> car breaks down and they're on their

1:33:26last dollar. Yeah.

1:33:27>> Or they're here for seasonal work. Or

1:33:29there's so many situations that's not

1:33:31necessarily that it was their

1:33:32fault and they didn't necessarily come

1:33:35to Bangor specifically for the

1:33:36resources.

1:33:37>> Right.

1:33:38>> I I think it's just really complex.

1:33:40>> Just a

1:33:41>> Um

1:33:42some of the data that you had discussed

1:33:44that I think Chief Hathaway brought to

1:33:46council like the 40 new people, that was

1:33:48discussed in our first meeting. I was

1:33:49thinking ECAP data. I don't know if

1:33:53We collect ECAP data and it was talked

1:33:55about.

1:33:56So, the people 40 people that you

1:33:58referenced that were identifying that

1:33:59was self-reported that they were not

1:34:01from Bangor. That's that's where that

1:34:03came from

1:34:04directly from the individual. But, I

1:34:06think one of the things that you

1:34:08touched on as well is uh

1:34:11I I feel like there's a bit of a

1:34:12difference between coming to Bangor

1:34:13because resources are are available,

1:34:15they're accessible, they have resources.

1:34:17And coming to Bangor or being brought to

1:34:19Bangor and um

1:34:22being directed to general assistance. I

1:34:24think that might be one of the things

1:34:26that other communities may be missing is

1:34:28if somebody presents and are in need of

1:34:30general assistance, directing them to

1:34:32resources in opposed to

1:34:35to Bangor.

1:34:36And then they end up um

1:34:38being directed to general assistance

1:34:40because we're efficient and

1:34:42uh

1:34:43>> I don't think that's it.

1:34:45>> Right, that's not that person's fault.

1:34:46That's somebody said, "I'm putting you

1:34:47on a bus and I'm shipping you out."

1:34:49That's not that person's fault.

1:34:50>> There's There's a lot of different ways

1:34:52that people can come homeless on our

1:34:53streets.

1:34:54>> Yeah.

1:34:54>> our community. We have two major

1:34:56hospitals. We have a mental health

1:34:58hospital. We have 20 recovery houses. Um

1:35:02I mean, I could go on and on. Methadone

1:35:04clinics, huh?

1:35:05>> We have a jail.

1:35:06>> We have a prison.

1:35:07>> Yeah.

1:35:07>> Wait, and all these places discharge or

1:35:11or

1:35:12or you know, people are discharged out

1:35:14of their places and you know, if that

1:35:17person's unhoused in their community,

1:35:19they're going to stay around here

1:35:20because it's so that we have a bus

1:35:22system, we have jobs, we have all this

1:35:24stuff.

1:35:25I don't think that you're ever going to

1:35:27get to the point where you can say, "Oh,

1:35:28that person needs to We need to not help

1:35:31him." Cuz I mean, honestly, I'd help him

1:35:33cuz he's a human being in front of me.

1:35:36Um

1:35:37I don't know. That's just kind of I

1:35:38don't know if we can ever stop the

1:35:40inflow of people.

1:35:41>> And And if I if I can just I don't think

1:35:44I don't think anyone was saying we don't

1:35:45help people.

1:35:50It was never like nobody was implying we

1:35:52don't help them.

1:35:53>> No, I didn't I thought I didn't mean to

1:35:54say that.

1:35:54>> Well, it's important to address the

1:35:56the ideologies that maybe that's not

1:35:59where you two are at. Maybe you practice

1:36:02this ideology and

1:36:04maybe maybe neither [clears throat] of

1:36:06you truly have a discrete ideology about

1:36:08this at all. Maybe you're just going bit

1:36:11by bit. But, you know,

1:36:13semantically speaking, it is important

1:36:14for us to dig into because it goes into

1:36:17what Bruce said, how are we humanizing

1:36:20people who

1:36:21are in Bangor

1:36:23and all Does it um

1:36:25>> Yeah.

1:36:25>> But, you know,

1:36:26>> [clears throat]

1:36:27>> if I can just say, you know, one thing

1:36:29is that like

1:36:31there there is a narrative that people

1:36:32shop or they're shopping for a place to

1:36:35go and and somehow Bangor is a high

1:36:37ticket item to be homeless, um which I

1:36:40don't know if I personally agree with

1:36:42that. Um

1:36:44And then we're ending up here and

1:36:45there's, you know, precious

1:36:47uh resources and we get into this uh

1:36:51litigation issue where

1:36:53you know, it's it's a very basic and

1:36:55alarming calculus like I said before,

1:36:57finite resources, infinite problem.

1:37:00Um and you two are I think it was mostly

1:37:03you, Alfin, who were saying that, you

1:37:04know, like um

1:37:05plugging up the dam, you know.

1:37:08And um plugging up the dam is important,

1:37:12but I don't know if that's what the

1:37:13homeless response team

1:37:15or group or the

1:37:17environment ecosystem, whatever you want

1:37:19to call it, is for. Where's the dam

1:37:21physically, right? Like the people who

1:37:23are plugging up the dam are two, three,

1:37:25four stops

1:37:26before us. The way that we can address

1:37:28that component

1:37:30is by presenting a united front, not

1:37:33asking, "Well, if this person was

1:37:35shocked or or farmed over to Bangor,

1:37:36couldn't they have just gone to

1:37:37Portland? Portland has more money."

1:37:40If we continually play that game, which

1:37:42is what so many communities across the

1:37:44country and across Maine are doing,

1:37:45playing that game day in and day out of

1:37:48of tag with an unhoused person.

1:37:51Um we're never going to plug the dam or

1:37:54make the dam stronger. The best thing in

1:37:56my point of view that we can do

1:37:58just make sure the dam is held strong to

1:38:00begin with. Just present a united front

1:38:03so that Portland is giving it 100 and so

1:38:06that Bangor is giving it 100 and so that

1:38:08there aren't any communities that are

1:38:10saying, well, like let's look at

1:38:12Portland. They've got 150. I'll give it

1:38:1470. Like if we're all giving it 100

1:38:17then

1:38:18you know, we have

1:38:20we're we're closer to a solution than we

1:38:22are if we were

1:38:23>> I think somehow we have to come up with

1:38:24an equation so that there's only going

1:38:27to be someone in the perfect world we'd

1:38:28have all the money to help all

1:38:30And I get what you're saying it's

1:38:31complex and when they're here it's not

1:38:33their fault that they've been released

1:38:34from the hospital and they're out on the

1:38:35street or they've just been out of jail

1:38:37and they're going to start a new life

1:38:39and they don't have any place to go. So

1:38:41I I understand that but the bottom line

1:38:43is it's going to boil down to just

1:38:45limited resources. So how do we qualify

1:38:48who's going to end up getting those

1:38:49resources? Somehow one has to meet the

1:38:53other. Somehow we have to figure out,

1:38:56you know,

1:38:57we can't we're failing now because we're

1:38:59not reaching everybody.

1:39:00We have to figure out well, what

1:39:02resources do we have? Communication,

1:39:04communicating to the public that but

1:39:06most of these people really are from

1:39:08Bangor. They didn't get, you know, they

1:39:09didn't, you know, throw a a dart on the

1:39:12wall and they weren't, you know, some of

1:39:13them didn't get tickets but they're here

1:39:15but how do we manage? How do we quantify

1:39:18and qualify and identify

1:39:20with the limited resources we have who's

1:39:23going to be the recipient of those

1:39:24because it's going to boil down to that.

1:39:25We don't like to hear it. We'd like to

1:39:27hear we could help everybody but the

1:39:28reality is it's the taxpayers when it

1:39:30comes from the city. Me being on the

1:39:32city council speaking and I can't speak

1:39:34for the council but we would certainly

1:39:37want to participate in any way we can

1:39:39applying for grants, being a partner but

1:39:41it a lot of you know, we're going to

1:39:43have to come back to the taxpayers for

1:39:45some of this money and they're

1:39:46experiencing living it as well the

1:39:49residual of all this and they're talking

1:39:51among themselves and and and have their

1:39:53own myths and ideologies. So I think

1:39:56communication

1:39:57>> Yeah.

1:39:57>> And you know, I mean I've had some

1:39:59misconceptions as well and I know

1:40:01there's a lot out there.

1:40:02>> I mean I'm sure that I do too and I do

1:40:04think that it it's like you said

1:40:07um you know, it

1:40:09is heavily a a communications issue

1:40:11because a lot of people

1:40:14when we're doing this resource

1:40:17analysis and and figuring out

1:40:19who we can and why we can't broker

1:40:22resources we don't realize that

1:40:24each one of these people is a potential

1:40:25resource to the community. Each one of

1:40:27this person that we're paying our tax

1:40:29dollars to now could be paying their tax

1:40:31dollars towards our social security, you

1:40:33know, a year or two down the road. Maybe

1:40:35they're going to work longer than we do.

1:40:37Maybe they're paying even more. So real

1:40:39quick babe

1:40:40>> Do I I just also want to point out that

1:40:41I think it is our responsibility as a

1:40:43community to have conversations that are

1:40:47a little bit uncomfortable, right? And

1:40:49and I get that this is not

1:40:52it's not the the perfect solution or the

1:40:54perfect conversation to be having, but

1:40:56it's one that needs to be had I think

1:40:59respectfully. [clears throat]

1:41:01Um and there's going to be more of these

1:41:03conversations where we're going to have

1:41:05to look at things that are that are

1:41:07uncomfortable and have those

1:41:09conversations. And so

1:41:12um just

1:41:14reminding everybody to make sure that

1:41:15we're respectful of everybody

1:41:18everybody in this group. We all bring an

1:41:20expertise. We're all incredibly valuable

1:41:22to this committee and bring a

1:41:24perspective that's unique for each of us

1:41:26and incredibly valuable.

1:41:28But we also have to be comfortable

1:41:30having

1:41:31conversations and to bring up the

1:41:33viewpoints, right?

1:41:35The the question's a legitimate

1:41:36question, right? But the answers are

1:41:38also legitimate, right? It's It's hard

1:41:39to quantify. We don't know.

1:41:41>> I'm very thankful for

1:41:42people who engage.

1:41:44And And yeah, like that's

1:41:46one of the things that has a Oh, I'm

1:41:48sorry. I'm cutting you off. Ben, um

1:41:50but I I just wanted to say that. I'll

1:41:52speak it in. It won't even have

1:41:54happened. I'll be just so good. Be nice

1:41:56for once, and you're going to be proud

1:41:57of me, Ben.

1:41:58>> We're not there.

1:41:58>> Okay. Um

1:42:00I I just want to say that like I'm I'm

1:42:02thankful that you engaged and you asked

1:42:04the tough question because like that's

1:42:06one of the things that has disheartened

1:42:07me being

1:42:08>> [clears throat]

1:42:09>> a citizen of Bangor is the lack of tough

1:42:11questions that people are asking and the

1:42:12lack of of dialogue people are having.

1:42:16Um

1:42:16you know, not just with people who they

1:42:18know will automatically agree with them.

1:42:19So, I I thank you for

1:42:21>> Ben.

1:42:22Um we have about 20 minutes left, and I

1:42:25feel like Justin Russell's plan is is

1:42:29substantial enough it would be great to

1:42:31discuss in a future meeting rather than

1:42:33squeeze it in. I had uh looked down to

1:42:362C, and there was I had a a few things

1:42:39under that, and I just wondered where

1:42:40where we wanted to go with those

1:42:42on the agenda.

1:42:44I

1:42:45>> Yep.

1:42:45>> I just wondered where we wanted to go.

1:42:47>> Can I just throw one quick thing in

1:42:48before you get to

1:42:50Um just to piggyback on

1:42:52previous discussion about people coming

1:42:54from different jurisdictions here and

1:42:56things like that. Something that we need

1:42:57to do

1:42:58we need to hope that to have in the

1:43:01future special with other jurisdictions

1:43:03uh other municipalities because that is

1:43:06a that is a concern because we got to do

1:43:08whatever we're going to take for

1:43:09everyone to see here. I mean, we're not

1:43:10going to say you came from there, we're

1:43:11not seeing you pass up. But But at the

1:43:13same time,

1:43:14we need to have that honest discussion

1:43:16outside folks. This is

1:43:18>> Yeah.

1:43:18>> And tell hey guys,

1:43:19>> Yeah.

1:43:19>> you can't keep send you know, keep

1:43:21sending people past here. I mean,

1:43:22because if we don't have that

1:43:24conversation, they say, "Well, great.

1:43:25There's more resources. Keep going. Keep

1:43:27going. Keep going."

1:43:27>> Ben said earlier Tony in an earlier

1:43:29session like, "Why don't we ask these

1:43:31people for money?" I mean, that's what

1:43:32you said earlier.

1:43:34Yeah, you can contribute. Yeah, you can

1:43:35contribute to this here. Yeah.

1:43:37>> If they want to. I agree completely

1:43:38because the reality of it is

1:43:41the question stands, here's our

1:43:43resources, how can we use them the most

1:43:44efficiently? And boom, that's all you

1:43:46can do with that. You can only do what

1:43:47you can do. So, in a perfect world,

1:43:49every single person that's here we get a

1:43:51shelter bed for and we do this, we do

1:43:52that's not reality. Here's the resources

1:43:54that we have and what I think this

1:43:56committee can do is here's the best way

1:43:58to spend this kind of money. Here's

1:44:00where you can prioritize things and

1:44:02we'll serve as many people as we can

1:44:03with what we have.

1:44:05Um

1:44:05and then I think also that gets us out

1:44:07of the semantics of like how many are

1:44:08here, how many are from there, but 100%

1:44:12>> I mean, again, that would be great, but

1:44:13if you don't, it's you know, reality is

1:44:16for them to say no, we don't do that,

1:44:17that's I mean, that's like

1:44:19we all know that's not happening.

1:44:22>> We know

1:44:23to Ben's

1:44:25No,

1:44:25to Ben's point,

1:44:27everybody is good with us moving the

1:44:29Russell

1:44:30>> Yeah, definitely to the next week. Yeah,

1:44:31correct.

1:44:32>> Or [clears throat] to a future to a

1:44:33future meeting because I don't have the

1:44:34time.

1:44:35>> Yeah, I agree.

1:44:36>> Um and then so

1:44:39discussion

1:44:40um

1:44:41So, we got three items there that I know

1:44:43you mentioned letter C.

1:44:45>> Um but A comes before C, so

1:44:47>> A comes before C, so

1:44:49uh what additional information does

1:44:52committee does committee want or need

1:44:53from city staff? I know we've already

1:44:55asked

1:44:56>> Oh, he left me.

1:44:57>> Um that's why you

1:44:58>> Yeah, he knew you were going to ask.

1:45:01He knew I was going to

1:45:02>> [laughter]

1:45:02>> ask him his homework assignment, so So,

1:45:04we have requested some information from

1:45:06Perus. Uh are there any other things

1:45:09especially pertinent to we discussed for

1:45:12the next meeting uh

1:45:15a couple of different items that we

1:45:16wanted to talk about.

1:45:19>> And we were talking about we we we put

1:45:22on

1:45:23we did

1:45:24the cooling center check-in and we also

1:45:26did um

1:45:29communications. What What else did we

1:45:31>> We were going to talk about the hub.

1:45:32>> We're going to talk about the hub.

1:45:34>> Um and that

1:45:35>> and what that actually means or could

1:45:36potentially mean like

1:45:38>> So, is there data that we as a committee

1:45:41feel like we're going to need in

1:45:43preparation for those discussions?

1:45:45>> So, one thing that I want is I want to

1:45:47hear from more people than Bruce. You

1:45:49know, I want people because, you know,

1:45:51obviously Bruce is a literal expert in

1:45:53this, you know, as

1:45:55or as we can say an expert is.

1:45:58But, you know, a lot of people are

1:45:59working in different sectors in the

1:46:01city. Um

1:46:03and you know, like our our police um

1:46:06and then, you know, we have

1:46:08data and we have operations. We have all

1:46:10sorts of people who are experiencing a

1:46:13different facet of the gap. And I would

1:46:15like I would just like to hear from more

1:46:16people what they think

1:46:18the gaps are. I mean, isn't that some of

1:46:19the homework that we gave Bruce to give

1:46:22us a skeleton of the

1:46:23>> Well, that's actually letter B.

1:46:25>> Oh, okay.

1:46:25>> What uh what outside

1:46:27stakeholders do we want? And so, I mean,

1:46:31I guess the question would be do we want

1:46:33to try to invite like one or two?

1:46:36Um like I I would just be cautious of

1:46:39having a room full of 30 people that are

1:46:42that are from all the different

1:46:43organizations because we will get no

1:46:45conversation done.

1:46:47>> Jay?

1:46:48>> I would like to see um someone from the

1:46:50continuum of care come in and give us a

1:46:52an overview of what at the state level

1:46:55is going on for homeless services. Um

1:46:58also the Region 3 Homeless Council

1:47:01uh

1:47:01representative to have them come in.

1:47:03Could also talk with Jen, our hub center

1:47:06coordinator, and talk about what they

1:47:07do.

1:47:08I think it would be helpful for this

1:47:10group to have an idea of what happens at

1:47:12the state and federal level um because

1:47:14those funding those funding outcomes are

1:47:17um

1:47:18forcing us to have conversations about

1:47:20the programmatic ends, just like the

1:47:22warming centers, right? The COC sets

1:47:24that funds means the housing pays for

1:47:26it. Um

1:47:27so they set the standards and now we're

1:47:29operating with that with that set of

1:47:30standards that we don't even really may

1:47:32not even know as a group what those are.

1:47:34>> Is that something city can help

1:47:35coordinate?

1:47:36>> I just wanted to jump in and make sure

1:47:38you saw in the email from Robin on

1:47:40Friday that the Hub 7 coordinator is

1:47:45actually coming to present to council

1:47:47tomorrow night. Um I very much doubt

1:47:51that she's going to be interested in

1:47:53coming for a second meeting. So I think

1:47:54it might be ideal if members of this

1:47:58committee could listen in to that

1:48:00meeting and then maybe identify what

1:48:03additional information if any you're

1:48:05hoping to get from her.

1:48:06>> That's tomorrow?

1:48:07>> That's tomorrow um during council

1:48:09committee meetings. It

1:48:11>> know even what that is as if I don't

1:48:12know because I don't know.

1:48:14>> They start at 5:15. This is not an easy

1:48:16answer. They start at 5:15 but this item

1:48:19is very late on the agenda. So I can't

1:48:23give you an exact time when it will

1:48:24start. It will most likely be after 6:00

1:48:27p.m.

1:48:28>> [clears throat]

1:48:28>> Is that on GovOps or

1:48:31>> GovOps.

1:48:31>> Yeah, it's GovOps so if you're going on

1:48:33the city bank portal

1:48:35>> It's like GovOps meeting.

1:48:37>> So on the bank portal

1:48:38>> You can see their whole agenda.

1:48:40>> it's like a pagan curse or something.

1:48:42>> GovOps.

1:48:44>> She's coming to the GovOps meeting

1:48:46tomorrow.

1:48:47I probably could close with that.

1:48:48>> Okay. It's going to be on that.

1:48:50Okay.

1:48:51>> So it sounds like the Hub coordinator is

1:48:54going to the government ops

1:48:56to give them kind of an overview of So

1:48:58they're very much in the same situation

1:49:00that we may be in. We don't really

1:49:02understand the full job description of

1:49:04the seven Hub seven coordinator. Uh I'll

1:49:06[snorts] definitely listen in.

1:49:08>> I would I would like to hear from case

1:49:09management agencies and see

1:49:12what they're saying because these are

1:49:13the people who are throwing their heads

1:49:15against the wall

1:49:16on a daily basis.

1:49:18>> I would prefer to hear from OBH, the

1:49:20office of behavioral health that runs

1:49:21the contracts

1:49:23for the case management.

1:49:29>> The head homelessness task force can

1:49:32come and speak with you as well. They've

1:49:34let me know that they're able

1:49:37>> So, we've just listed a lot of people

1:49:39all right.

1:49:40>> It's going to take three meetings to get

1:49:41all of

1:49:43>> So, I guess my question to to the the

1:49:46committee is do we think it's worth

1:49:48having somebody for the next meeting or

1:49:51do we start to have this these

1:49:52conversations cuz the needle like

1:49:55Harm reduction was the other thing that

1:49:57we have to talk about for the next

1:49:58meeting. So,

1:49:59you know, those those are some pretty

1:50:01substantial topics that may

1:50:06cause us to have like oh, okay. We in

1:50:08order to get further on this pro this

1:50:11this subject, we need this expert.

1:50:14Or somebody that we think can can

1:50:16benefit.

1:50:17Actually.

1:50:18>> Well,

1:50:19my thought is like why

1:50:21cuz we have we have such a great body of

1:50:24work here. I mean, we've got the good

1:50:25bones. We've got the plans. We've got a

1:50:28lot of issues not issues, but

1:50:31like

1:50:32sort of compartmentalized structures

1:50:34here that we could throw our

1:50:37weight behind any even any one of them.

1:50:39Um,

1:50:40from

1:50:41the from the hub

1:50:44to

1:50:44>> the students.

1:50:46>> Yeah, to to to just so we could you

1:50:49know, to

1:50:50um, communications to including needle

1:50:53boxes. Like we already have some of the

1:50:56tools to fulfill our mandate here. Why

1:50:59would you know, how many forums are we

1:51:01going to have and how many dialogues are

1:51:02we going to have like

1:51:04um,

1:51:05wouldn't it I I think it would be a

1:51:07little interesting. I'm not saying that

1:51:08we shouldn't hear from these

1:51:09stakeholders.

1:51:11But, I think it'd be interesting to just

1:51:13maybe start pivoting to conversations

1:51:15about the viability

1:51:17of

1:51:18just like let's pick three or four of

1:51:19these good ideas.

1:51:21>> I believe that's what we've done for the

1:51:23next meeting. Right. We we've chosen

1:51:25three that we feel like are ones that we

1:51:27can have meaningful conversation and and

1:51:30hopefully start providing

1:51:31recommendations to council feeling that

1:51:34the that the harm reduction and needle

1:51:36waste was a big one which ties in

1:51:39communication, ties in some of these

1:51:41other things.

1:51:42>> Ties in in the bank or opportunity plan

1:51:44cuz there was some touch around needle

1:51:47waste in that that I thought would be

1:51:49interesting.

1:51:50>> So so to your point too, I I think we've

1:51:53that's what we've done. We've identified

1:51:54a couple of things and so for for the

1:51:56next meeting we'll we'll try to tackle

1:51:58some of those to get to that point where

1:52:00we are making recommendations on things

1:52:02to council so that they can

1:52:05do what it is they do.

1:52:06>> [laughter]

1:52:07>> Well, rather than go to each one of

1:52:09these people and have them come like I

1:52:11mean from

1:52:12my experience organizing like

1:52:15you talk to

1:52:17you talk to Barn or whatever they're

1:52:18like, well, you know, it's we do want to

1:52:20be heard but we don't want every staff

1:52:21member to go there right now. In fact,

1:52:23none of them want to come as much as we

1:52:25love you. Um

1:52:26So I like I feel like we could just do

1:52:28do that like, you know, like say, oh,

1:52:30I'm comfortable, you know, if X talks

1:52:33about it or Y talks about it.

1:52:34>> There's so many stakeholders. I feel

1:52:36like we could list 80 different

1:52:38stakeholder groups. Um

1:52:40What if we all uh

1:52:42email

1:52:43me as a secretary. I'm willing to be the

1:52:47the secretary guy. Yeah.

1:52:50Do my first thing as secretary. Um

1:52:53two two uh stakeholders that you'd like

1:52:57uh to hear from. I'll pass that on that

1:52:59on to Alton. Uh we can discuss it at the

1:53:02next meeting. Then we won't have to

1:53:03brainstorm it here. We You just kind of

1:53:05name

1:53:06uh that'll be a maximum of 18 uh

1:53:09uh names

1:53:11and

1:53:12from there. Does that seem fair?

1:53:13>> That seems like a great idea.

1:53:16>> Yeah, I'd be happy to help with that,

1:53:17too.

1:53:18>> Yeah.

1:53:19>> I'm happy to receive those stakeholders.

1:53:22Do you want to just add to myself?

1:53:23>> Do you want to just the person's name or

1:53:25do you want like a kind of a

1:53:26justification as to why

1:53:28>> Uh

1:53:29my feeling is

1:53:31I'll pass it to Alton and we'll discuss

1:53:33>> But having some justification may be

1:53:35helpful because I mean I know I am not

1:53:39necessarily subject matter expert in all

1:53:41of the minutia that that that you would

1:53:43like your skill set is very different

1:53:44than mine and your knowledge base is

1:53:46very and so you may throw some names on

1:53:48there and I'm like I don't even know

1:53:49what this title is.

1:53:50>> Right, right. If you just said Mary

1:53:51Smith and then I'm like which Mary Smith

1:53:53are we talking about? Like, you know,

1:53:55like Mary Smith head of homeless

1:53:58XYZ, you know. Yeah, right.

1:54:00>> So just a little context would be super

1:54:01helpful.

1:54:06>> Awesome.

1:54:07>> Sure.

1:54:07>> What else do we have here?

1:54:09>> Does anyone have anything else that we

1:54:11would like to discuss

1:54:14this evening?

1:54:17On the agenda otherwise?

1:54:19>> Not this evening.

1:54:21But other other week's agenda items,

1:54:25one thing that came up repeatedly in the

1:54:29uh packet and the emails from members of

1:54:31the public was uh mental health and I

1:54:34heard several times that people

1:54:37uh across mental health like bio

1:54:40Sometimes it was blue papering and I

1:54:42feel like there's a lot of different

1:54:44perspectives around blue papering. We

1:54:46have a number of people even in our

1:54:48group who have more knowledge than I do

1:54:50certainly about uh blue papering and by

1:54:53that I I mean

1:54:55involuntary commitment of somebody to a

1:54:57mental health

1:54:58for mental health.

1:55:02phrase.

1:55:03I wonder if we could just get a little

1:55:05bit of information about that at some

1:55:07future meeting. It doesn't even need to

1:55:08be the vice act, but sometime before the

1:55:10end of of the year, if we could get some

1:55:14information cuz I feel like people often

1:55:15have a an elevated sense of the power of

1:55:18the state to put put a person in a

1:55:21mental health facility.

1:55:22>> Yeah, and I agree with Robin. Wouldn't

1:55:24help us?

1:55:25>> Yes.

1:55:27>> I think

1:55:28the only thing is like it's you know,

1:55:30when the involuntary process is a tool,

1:55:33no different from anything else. And

1:55:35>> Okay, well, this is true. I'm I'm

1:55:37concerned about time. I just wonder if

1:55:38we could do it in a future

1:55:39>> No, no, I'm not saying it here, but I'm

1:55:40just I'm just even having a discussion

1:55:43here because it's anything that really

1:55:45you basically have to take away

1:55:47someone's civil rights. When you do

1:55:48that, I don't you know, I don't think

1:55:50that's a tool that we want to be using

1:55:52in any kind of format.

1:55:53>> I I'm not recommending that we use it.

1:55:56I'm saying the communication I'm saying

1:55:58the general public have a belief that

1:56:01somebody with a MD or whatever can go

1:56:04out and just remove your civil rights.

1:56:06And they want that to happen more often.

1:56:08And

1:56:10I think I have

1:56:10>> We have the same react. We all have the

1:56:11same react.

1:56:13>> I'll just tell you that's actually not

1:56:15as much as me sometimes. It's more him.

1:56:19Because they actually they actually not

1:56:21even remove

1:56:22They want him to take someone away.

1:56:24Period. It doesn't matter where he takes

1:56:25them to.

1:56:26So, I think that I think that's what

1:56:28they're looking for.

1:56:29>> So, I just think some information so

1:56:31that we've got that so that we all have

1:56:33a common sense when people

1:56:36talk to us about it what the actual

1:56:38rules are. The other thing that I

1:56:40thought looking at the messages is

1:56:43a lot of folks have a sense that

1:56:45unhoused people shouldn't be in a

1:56:46specific spot. And I wonder if a

1:56:49conversation we could have at some point

1:56:51in the future is instead of saying

1:56:53unhoused people shouldn't be in this

1:56:55park or that park, which could be a

1:56:57conversation. We talked about how

1:56:58stigmatizing that could be. If instead

1:57:01we talked about places where we did

1:57:03think would be

1:57:06more likely place for homeless services

1:57:09to be provided. If people are providing

1:57:11feeding services, if people are handing

1:57:13out propane in a given park, um

1:57:16you're going to have homeless people

1:57:18going to that park. And so I think if we

1:57:21were to talk in a more positive sense

1:57:23about where

1:57:24things probably ought to happen rather

1:57:27than places where they are

1:57:29Yeah, shouldn't happen because the

1:57:31constant refrain is, "Well, you always

1:57:34list places they can't happen and no one

1:57:35says they can't happen." And

1:57:38that stops us from making good judgments

1:57:40sometimes about, you know,

1:57:42uh

1:57:42or it can take a month and a half to

1:57:44determine, "Should this sidewalk be

1:57:46passable?" Or or whatnot. So

1:57:48So I think framing more positively,

1:57:51"Well, we have other places that we want

1:57:54um

1:57:55want services to be provided." Can can

1:57:57be a more positive conversation and get

1:57:59away from some of the

1:58:02negative

1:58:03"Well, you can't be on this space."

1:58:06kinds of conversations. I just wonder if

1:58:07that could be Not that it could be any

1:58:09second,

1:58:11Yeah.

1:58:12>> And I think that's one of the things

1:58:13that we need not just like our city

1:58:15partners help with, but we need our

1:58:16elected officials to put their face

1:58:18their money where their mouth is on and

1:58:21and get behind this city.

1:58:22I mean at least for me that's what I I

1:58:24think I don't want to hijack your thing,

1:58:25but like it's part of communications,

1:58:28right? It's part of I mean I get that

1:58:29it's a interpersonal thing, but

1:58:32you know, most of us aren't in that the

1:58:34sector of people who are saying, "Well,

1:58:35they shouldn't be here." Most of us have

1:58:37this table right now.

1:58:38>> Right.

1:58:38>> All right. Otherwise we

1:58:40are

1:58:40>> Those are just two things I'd like to

1:58:41see on future agendas. Not a not a

1:58:44tonight thing.

1:58:45>> Yeah. But, you know, it'd be good to

1:58:46talk about our communications. I mean,

1:58:48isn't that an agenda item for our next

1:58:50meeting is talk about communications?

1:58:51>> That's what my suggestion was was uh the

1:58:54at the end of the night or something.

1:58:56>> Yeah, you said at a future meeting

1:58:57doesn't have to be next meeting. But I

1:58:59thought

1:59:00you know.

1:59:02Anyone have anything else before we call

1:59:04this meeting?

1:59:07Once twice

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