2026-10-15 - Town Council Work Session

03:51We'll call to order the October 15th

03:54council work session and I'll turn it

03:56over to our interim manager, Russ Over.

03:59>> Thank you, Mayor. I'll go through the

04:01agenda tonight. Um we'll review the

04:03upcoming meeting schedule. Um our main

04:05topic will be uh the uh starting a

04:07conversation around um a project that

04:10will be master planning for historic

04:12preservation and then I'll give a few

04:14updates and I think we do have a close

04:16session before we adjourn tonight. So

04:18let me throw it to Jenny to go through

04:20the upcoming calendar.

04:23>> Um yes. So this is the upcoming

04:25calendar. So we have the 15th tonight,

04:2822nd, 27th, 16th. Um and then that kind

04:33of gets us through mid- November

04:36and then the quarterly on the 5th.

04:41And also um at your table we had sent

04:45out and I think Julie had been

04:46communicating with you about the holiday

04:48and observances reference list. we had

04:51asked for feedback on it um and

04:53incorporated any feedback that we did

04:55receive into this um and so just making

05:01tonight's kind of the check-in that

05:03everybody is okay with us using this

05:05moving forward to make the meeting

05:06schedule

05:10and if there was any changes that we

05:12want to talk about here that'd be great.

05:16Are we putting them on the calendar or

05:18are we avoiding all of these holidays

05:21because that makes things very

05:22difficult.

05:23>> Yes. So you'll recognize that we have

05:25the state recognized holidays and the

05:27carry recognized holidays. And then we

05:28have the observances that we schedule

05:30around. We don't put these on the

05:32calendar in any way, but we do um are

05:35mindful not to schedule council

05:36meetings. And then we have additional

05:39observances that we're just mindful of

05:40when scheduling the meetings. And so we

05:43use this list um when we

05:46u make the board meetings when we make

05:49the um council meetings like a dates.

05:54Just one thought and one suggestion I in

05:56the private sector what we have is a

05:58separate holiday outlook file so that

06:01people have this information on their

06:04calendar like this is Passover this is

06:07so that otherwise they don't have to

06:08refer to another sheet of paper. I don't

06:10know if you all have thought about that,

06:12but I would imagine if I were sitting

06:15with my uh human relations, inclusion,

06:18and diversity folks, they would probably

06:20suggest that finding a way to make it

06:23easy access might be something we'd want

06:26to consider. I don't know if that's ever

06:27come up before.

06:29>> Um, it has, but we can pass that along

06:32to them.

06:33>> We could do that as long as there's

06:34agreement by council on what the

06:35observances are.

06:37>> Yeah.

06:37>> Would help us make sure we got

06:39everything. So, if these dates were the

06:41ones, [clears throat]

06:42>> I know some of them are on there. I've

06:44seen them before. Um, you know, for

06:47instance, I know I've seen a someone

06:49post a Ramadan one and and an Outlook,

06:51but I I I just think it's a a nice way

06:54to celebrate our diversity and it

06:56doesn't mean that you have to, you know,

06:58avoid that holiday, but it might be nice

07:00to help recognize folks and help them

07:04feel like they belong.

07:07>> Yep. Anyone else have any suggestions or

07:11comments?

07:13>> Sounds good. We will um share the

07:17schedule with council um next week and

07:20then the 27th we'll present the schedule

07:22here at the work session and then on

07:25Thursday the 10th um in December we will

07:28adopt the 2027 meeting calendar along it

07:31will be council's and I know you've

07:33adopted some of the 2027 but this will

07:35just be for the whole year and um it

07:38will include the boards as well.

07:41>> Thank you. All

07:43right. Thanks, Jimmy. All right, we'll

07:45move on to our main topic for tonight.

07:47Historic preservation master plan and

07:50assistant planning and community

07:51development director Katie Dry will

07:53present this item.

08:01>> Good evening, um, mayor and council. I'm

08:04happy to be here tonight to talk to you

08:06about the historic preservation master

08:08plan.

08:09And I'm actually going to talk to you

08:11about two things tonight. First, um,

08:13with, uh, the adoption of the fiscal

08:16year 2027 budget, there was funding

08:18approved for a master plan update for

08:20historic preservation. So, we're going

08:22to talk about that, but first, we're

08:24going to start with a program overview

08:26of historic preservation and some of the

08:29work that's occurred um, under this

08:31program.

08:38So for the purpose of tonight, we've

08:40divided the work in historic

08:42preservation into four phases. Starting

08:45with foundational historic preservation

08:47work, which included adaptive reuse of

08:50buildings um followed by early council

08:53and community vision, which in um

08:56included the 2010 historic preservation

08:59master plan. Uh we then turned policy

09:02into action by implementing uh the plan

09:05and setting up the program for historic

09:07preservation. And then that brings us to

09:10where we are today, which would be

09:12talking about an updated historic

09:14preservation master plan.

09:17So Carrie has worked in historic

09:19preservation for many years. Um, in

09:21fact, before 2010, when we adopted our

09:24first preservation master plan, um,

09:26Carrie was actively working in adaptive

09:28reuse of historic buildings and sites.

09:31This included strategic partnerships to,

09:34um, bring these buildings to life. Um,

09:36the Paige Walker is one of our most

09:38recognizable historic landmarks in

09:41downtown. Um, this project cost $1.3

09:45million, which keep in mind this was

09:48early 1990s money, which certainly

09:50wouldn't get you as far as a project of

09:53this magnitude for today, but uh this

09:55was a great example of early public

09:58private partnership where Harry worked

10:00with members of um with members of the

10:02public who um actually ended up becoming

10:05the Friends of Paige Walker, which are

10:07is our historical society to save and

10:10renovate this building.

10:12Also, we've got the Kerry Art Center,

10:14which was formerly Kerry High School and

10:16under ownership of the Wake County

10:18Public School System. Now, under Car's

10:21ownership, um we were able to renovate

10:23and um put this this building into

10:26active use as a Kerry Art Center um when

10:29it opened in 2011, and this was a $13

10:32million project again in 2010 and 2011.

10:37And does anyone know what this third

10:39building is? Kerry theater.

10:41>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you, mayor.

10:43[clears throat] This uh $6.1 million

10:46project um brought back to life um the

10:50Kerry Theater. So, this is a picture of

10:52the theater from the 1950s. And over

10:56time, the building had been renovated,

10:58had been altered, had different uses,

11:00and we've been able to bring it back to

11:02its former state once again bringing

11:05people to downtown Kerry to enjoy um

11:08live movies and shows.

11:12So, this early work in preservation and

11:14adaptive reuse really helped to build

11:16the foundation for our first

11:18preservation master plan, which was

11:20adopted in 2010.

11:23This master plan was intended to be a

11:26foundational plan. Um, it officially

11:29established preservation as a work area,

11:32a program area within the town of Kerry.

11:35There were some key recommendations of

11:37which included um to dedicate staff to

11:40work in historic preservation and then

11:43also to create K's first preservation m

11:46or first historic preservation

11:48commission to help implement the master

11:50plan. And of course, this plan um really

11:53just documented what we already knew,

11:55which is car's history matters and it

11:57matters to our residents.

12:00We then turned policy into action by

12:03implementing the plan. And um in 2014,

12:07Kerry established its first historic

12:09preservation commission. And then in

12:112017 um continued to um implement the

12:15goals of the plan by adopting the

12:17imagine carry community plan which

12:19incorporated the work of the

12:20preservation master plan into the

12:22imaginary plan. 2017 was also a year in

12:26which Kerry was recognized as a

12:28certified local government. Um and then

12:31we were able to implement the plan

12:33through some um projects that were

12:35funded through the 2019 shaping car's

12:37tomorrow bonds.

12:41So in order to set up our program which

12:44was envisioned in the 2010 master plan,

12:46we had to get to work and um and that

12:49involved programmatic setup. So before

12:522010 and the adoption of the master

12:54plan, we were working in preservation as

12:57I shared. Um we were part of the Wake

12:59County Historic U Preservation

13:02Commission and in order to form our own,

13:04we had to withdraw from Wake County. So,

13:06this is actually a copy of of the letter

13:08that I found from our town manager at

13:10the time, Ben Shyver, um to the Wake

13:13County manager indicating that we were

13:15withdrawing from the Wake County HPC,

13:19which led us to be able to establish our

13:22first HPC in 2014.

13:25And um the North Carolina General

13:28Statutes under 160D

13:31gives local governments the enabling

13:33legislation to form historic

13:35preservation commissions. And historic

13:37preservation commissions, unlike some

13:39other boards, um do have the ability to

13:43make decisions, um hold public hearings,

13:47and those required LDO amendments to

13:50accompany the establishment of the HPC.

13:53So when the HBC was set up, there was

13:55also a series of text amendments with

13:57our LDO that were adopted at the same

13:59time.

14:02Continuing on with our program setup, in

14:052017, Carrie was accepted as a certified

14:08local government. This is a designation

14:11that means that our program meets

14:13criteria at the state and federal level

14:15for historic preservation. It also

14:18enables us to receive funding from the

14:20federal government.

14:23In 2017, um, K's council adopted the

14:27Imagine Carrie community plan. Um, as

14:29part of this, we incorporated the

14:30historic preservation master plan into

14:33that. So, pulling the goals from the

14:36master plan into the overall vision for

14:39Car's uh, growth.

14:432019 car's voters had a chance to um

14:46once again weigh in on the program

14:49implementation for historic

14:51preservation. Um by approving the 2019

14:54shaping carries tomorrow bonds. Uh we

14:57were able to deliver on some of the key

14:59u plan recommendations.

15:01um one of which was the Ivy Ellington

15:04house and we celebrated the completion

15:06of that project last year and uh Ivy

15:10Ellington was also last year awarded an

15:12Enthian award through Capital Area

15:15Preservation.

15:17The 2019 bonds also enabled us to do

15:21some phase one structural rehabilitation

15:24on some properties that the town of

15:26Kerry owned throughout the throughout

15:28the town. So, two in the Carpenter area

15:31at the AM Howard Farmhouse, which is at

15:33Good Hope Farm, as well as the CF Frell

15:36store. Um, and also doing work for

15:39Barnabas Jones, which is [clears throat]

15:40in Jacksmith Park.

15:44Of course, all of these pieces come

15:46together with the Nancy Jones House,

15:48which was built around 1803 and is the

15:51oldest known residential structure

15:53within the town of Kerry. Um Carrie um

15:57took ownership of this site in 2019. Um

16:01this house was actually under ownership

16:02by private property owners for many

16:05years. And when Carrie took ownership,

16:07the the land in which um the house sat

16:10was actually owned by a different

16:11entity. So Carrie took the house but had

16:14to move the house in order to preserve

16:16it. Um so the house was moved in 2021

16:20and then in 2022 and 2023 received a

16:23designation. So, we um we were able to

16:26receive confirmation in 2022 that the

16:29house retained its status um as being

16:32listed on the National Register of

16:34Historic Places. And then in 2023, um

16:37K's council designated it as a local

16:40Kerry Historic Landmark.

16:44Of

16:46course, work continues on the Nancy

16:47Jones House and this is going to be one

16:50that will continue to receive various

16:52sources of funding and public private

16:54partnerships. So, in 2025, um we were

16:57able to work with a historic

16:59preservation restoration contractor to

17:01do some work on the house. Um, we've

17:03also just recently been awarded $10,000

17:07through the Certified Local Government

17:09Program, um, which is an exciting

17:11project we'll be implementing, um, with

17:13our partners, the Historic Preservation

17:15Commission. And then, of course, we're

17:17continuing to work with the Friends of

17:18the Page Walker who are looking for um,

17:21options to explore public private

17:23partnership opportunities for funding

17:25for this house.

17:30>> So, this brings us to a question. Yes,

17:32[clears throat]

17:32>> we get the I would say the most

17:34questions about the status of the Nancy

17:37Jones House. Is it structurally fit?

17:42Does it you know we we say that we that

17:45it's mothballled?

17:47[clears throat] Can you give more

17:48information about that? You you

17:50mentioned the 2025 maintenance. How is

17:53it doing? Because when you drive by it

17:56kind of looks like it's crumbling to the

17:58layman.

17:59>> Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. Um,

18:02and we do um that's something that we

18:04are actively monitoring. Um, we did uh

18:07we did hire a professional to do a

18:09structural assessment of the house and

18:11they have found that the house is

18:13structurally sound. We actually have a

18:15summary of the assessment on our on our

18:17website under the Nancy Jones House web

18:19page as well. So, because that is a

18:21frequent question that we get, that's

18:23something that we do want to share with

18:24members of the public. So, I think the

18:27way I would describe it is it's it's

18:29been it's been moved and um it's been um

18:34examined to be structurally sound and uh

18:37we actually did go out on site with the

18:39state as we were preparing for this

18:41certified local government um uh funding

18:44that we were applying for and they also,

18:46you know, confirmed, you know, it seems

18:48to be settling very well in this new

18:50location. um confirming structurally

18:53sound and just continued work of course

18:56will need to happen um over time for the

18:58preservation of the site.

19:00>> Thank you.

19:04>> So this brings us to where we are today

19:06which is um updating our master plan.

19:09So, it's been a total of 16 years since

19:12the adoption of our first master plan.

19:14And of course, Carrie has changed our um

19:17and uh the times have changed and so

19:19great time to go back out to the public,

19:21evaluate our initial programmatic setup

19:24and to explore our master plan update.

19:27So, since 2010, um we now have in our

19:30inventory a total of 13 Kerry historic

19:33landmarks. Our historic preservation is

19:36a very active board, very engaged, and

19:39they've been operating for 12 years. Um,

19:42as I noted, we are a certified local

19:45government um community, which is a a

19:47very high level recognition. We now have

19:5111 historic sites under ownership of the

19:53town of Kerry and successful completion

19:56of the 2019 bonds.

19:59So to continue on with you know what

20:01we've done um we these this is a map of

20:04the sites that we have in our ownership.

20:06We have a total of six sites within

20:08downtown Kerry. Of course we talked

20:10about Nancy Jones on Chapel Hill Road.

20:13Two two sites in the Carpenter area, one

20:16in Chadam County and then one at

20:18Jacksmith Park and south of Kerry.

20:22Uh this is a table showing each of the

20:24sites that we own. um essentially when

20:26the structures were built and their

20:29status. So the sites at the top

20:31highlighted in blue are those that have

20:33been activated. Those are those early

20:35adaptive reuse sites that I talked

20:37about. Um so these are um under the you

20:40know ownership and operation by the town

20:42of Kerry. Um the two sites in the salmon

20:46color are um active and leased by

20:49businesses. We also have three that are

20:52in gray. Those are stabilized sites and

20:54we use the 2019 bond funding for those.

20:57And then more recently, we've been able

20:59to acquire the last two in green which

21:01was a Nancy Jones house and the Markham

21:03barrel cabin and out buildings in

21:05Chattam County.

21:09So this brings us to the master plan

21:11scope. So, the master plan will

21:13accomplish several things, including

21:15updating our existing historic

21:17preservation master plan, assessing our

21:20existing conditions,

21:23uh being sure to align with the Imagine

21:25Carry community plan policies,

21:28especially the newly updated um update

21:30we added to Imagine Carry that council

21:32approved last year. of course looking at

21:35other town [clears throat] um plans and

21:36policies. Uh there there will be public

21:40engagement associated with this plan

21:41update,

21:43a review and update to our regulatory

21:45framework

21:47and an evaluation of the effectiveness

21:50of our current programmatic um programs

21:53um but then also recommendations for

21:55what's next.

21:58So, here's our preliminary schedule, and

22:01this starts with uh this summer,

22:02council, when you approved the budget

22:04for this year, which included funding

22:06for the plan. And um I'd like to share

22:10that HPC actually had their October

22:12meeting last night, and um has built in

22:15the master plan as one of their key work

22:17plan items for this board year um and

22:20even going into early next board year.

22:23So, as far as next steps go, we would be

22:26um releasing an RFP to select a

22:28consultant for this work in the fall and

22:30winter of this year. Um we would then be

22:34working towards public engagement and

22:36drafting the plan spring and summer of

22:38next year. um hoping to have a draft

22:40plan published for public comm community

22:42in community consideration in the winter

22:44of next year and then taking the plan

22:46through the formal regulatory process

22:49which of course would be going to public

22:51hearing before council the planning and

22:53zoning board and then back to council

22:55for a final decision.

22:58So happy to share this update with you

23:00and I'd love [clears throat] to be able

23:01to answer any questions that you have. I

23:04I appreciate uh the update and it's

23:07interesting since I've been mayor how

23:09the priorities have changed. I want to

23:11mention former council member Ed Yerhod.

23:14This was his passion and he helped

23:18generate the interest and the priority

23:20get getting that up at a higher level

23:22and I hope the citizens will keep it a

23:25high priority because to me it's very

23:27important uh that we are able to save

23:30these structures and and keep the

23:32importance of our history

23:35active and alive.

23:37Thank you.

23:41>> Process question the historic

23:44preservation master plan is part of

23:46imagine the imagine carry big document.

23:50>> Um is it integrated like some of the

23:53others or is it standalone so that you

23:56can just do the updates and then when we

23:59eventually approve it does it get folded

24:01back into it or does it remain alone?

24:03How does that work?

24:04>> Yeah. Yeah. So right now it's actually

24:06it's actually both. So um because the

24:09master plan was adopted at the time

24:12imagine carry was being crafted um they

24:15actually pull the recommendations of the

24:17plan into like the body the body of the

24:19plan. So it's it's fully integrated in

24:22in it in its current state. So when we

24:24do the master plan update, we would um

24:27we would likely update the master plan

24:30but then also update imagine carry so

24:32that we are ensuring that the new plan

24:34be also integrated into the overall

24:37imag.

24:37>> Two documents live or are there two

24:40documents or is it one document with

24:42just this section or how does that work?

24:45>> I think it could be either way but

24:47historically we've had separate

24:48documents. You the housing plan is a

24:50separate document that sort of thing.

24:52Yes,

24:53>> it's it's a great question. There's no

24:55wrong answer. I think um when we were

24:57going through the match and carry

24:58process, I just remember it was

24:59important and I remember doing a

25:00presentation, we had a gazillion

25:02documents and we're trying to make this

25:03one.

25:04>> Um but then you have these important,

25:06you know,

25:07>> plans and it it had been prior council

25:10preference, if I remember it, um to not

25:13lose it in the rest of the document. Um

25:17if y'all want to give input to that, um

25:20it's helpful. But I think what we find

25:21is then we we have one document. It just

25:23keeps growing as extra plans are

25:25attached to it and maybe that's the best

25:27way to be. Um but if there's a

25:29preference by anyone, I would love some

25:31input as we go. It's certainly not a

25:33decision tonight.

25:38>> Thank you.

25:38>> Thank you.

25:39>> Just wanted to say how proud I am of the

25:41work that has gone on for her historic

25:43preservation over the past decades. Long

25:46before I was on council and even before

25:49I lived in Kerry, I I I don't know why I

25:53tell this story over and over again

25:55because it's probably not a very

25:56flattering story, but I hated history in

25:59school and became a teacher and just did

26:03did not love history. And I really did

26:06as as a as an public school educator who

26:10was born and raised and taught only in

26:13North Carolina public schools.

26:15absolutely fell in love with Kerry

26:17before I moved here because of Kerry

26:20High School being the first public high

26:23school in North Carolina. and then

26:26moving here and

26:28eager to to join council knocking doors.

26:31It was too many hours that I spent on

26:33some porches that I should have knocked

26:35a whole lot more doors talking to

26:37residents and really hearing the rich

26:40history and talking to a member of the

26:42friends of Paige Walker the historical

26:44society and they said you know you

26:46really should you really should think

26:48about being our liaison. Ask the mayor

26:50if you if you get elected if you could

26:52be our liaison. And the more time I

26:55spent talking in the community, that's

26:57what people were talking about. You

26:58know, Carrie, there's so many wonderful

27:02things and progress going on in Carrie,

27:04but also keeping in mind the importance

27:07of sense of place and how preserving our

27:10history helps us maintain that. So, I'm

27:13so thankful for all of the efforts that

27:16the community has put in and council

27:18through the years, partners and staff,

27:22and I hope we um can continue that.

27:26>> You know, I want to share that uh Dr.

27:29Craig, since I was on the council, I

27:31feel you're in love with history. I

27:33never heard [laughter] anything like

27:35history before. Um, it's it's it's

27:39just something special about Carrie. And

27:42I I've also sometime I don't tell this

27:44story as often, but I when I joined

27:47council, I had lived in 23 homes in my

27:5046 years on the on this earth. And so I

27:53never lived in one place for very long.

27:56And so now that I've lived in Kerry for

27:58almost 14 years, it it really does feel

28:01special. So, I mean, perhaps it feels

28:03like this to everybody who stays in a

28:05place for long enough, but to be able to

28:07raise my family here, it just feels

28:10really special. And but I think it's

28:12it's more than just it's it's the people

28:16and the things. And but it's a lot of

28:19the history that we're preserving that

28:21really means a lot to a lot of people.

28:24>> And I'll add because I think I saw her

28:26in the audience, but Chris Carmichaels

28:27back here, she's a gem of staff that we

28:29have. and Chris and I met with um folks

28:32with the friends and I know Katie hit it

28:33but to highlight the fact that they are

28:35um wanting to do some fundraising with

28:38us and partnership to it. Maybe it's a

28:40grant or we've got to work through the

28:42process um but to hopefully work on the

28:44Nancy Jones house in the coming years

28:46and I know they're working on some

28:47things to establish that uh group that

28:50can start fundraising. But it just hit

28:51me as how much of a team effort it is

28:54with the um seeing Katie up here doing

28:56the presentation from a planning

28:57department. Uh the plan the um parks

28:59department that runs a lot of

29:01programming in it and then we couldn't

29:02do any of that without maintenance

29:04including as you were mentioning Lori

29:06about um maintaining at least in the

29:08state it's in the Nancy Jones house

29:10through public works. So I'm glad uh a

29:13lot of effort goes into this even though

29:15uh Katie is certainly the mouthpiece

29:16tonight and thank you for doing that

29:18Katie.

29:21All right. Thank you.

29:22>> Thank you.

29:22>> Thank you.

29:24>> All right. I'm going to do a few

29:25updates. And the first uh well, the

29:29updates are really going to be in case

29:31um mayor you have any recommendations or

29:34um announcements for the rest of the

29:35council from the committee updates. I

29:36don't think y'all met, so you may not.

29:38>> Yeah, we haven't met.

29:40>> All right.

29:40>> And Britney's doing a lot of work.

29:42[laughter] Waiting to see all of that.

29:43>> I will have my homework done by next

29:45week, mayor.

29:46>> All right. We're going to hear some

29:47additional services that were of

29:48interest regarding um our external

29:51auditor Cherry Beckert and I'm going to

29:54give an update on the rectangular rapid

29:56flashing beacon uh being installed at

29:58Ederley and then early voting started

30:01today. So

30:03with [clears throat] no updates from you

30:04all on the committee, we'll move to

30:06Cherry Beckert and bring up Kimberly

30:09Branch, our finance director, to lead us

30:11through this.

30:12>> Oh, where am I going without the

30:13clicker? [laughter] Y'all know I have

30:14slides. Good evening, mayor and council.

30:18I am here as a followup um to your

30:20discussions that you all started in on

30:22May 14th. You all had some questions

30:25about what type of advisory services or

30:27additional services could Cherry Becker

30:29possibly um have for us that will allow

30:32us to strengthen our framework um

30:35strengthen some of the perception that

30:36we have. And so on September the 22nd,

30:39um they submitted a proposal to us on um

30:43some focus areas that they've identified

30:46based on the work that we've done just

30:47over the past few years that can help

30:50look at our operations, look at the

30:51oversight and even reporting. And so

30:55that um proposal included four areas of

30:58focus. The first one's policy and

31:01procedure evaluation. here. Of course,

31:03they can look at any policy and

31:04procedure that we want them to look at

31:06that you all want them to look at um and

31:09provide recommendations, even rewrites.

31:12Secondly, they um would like to do a

31:15financial operation health check. What

31:17that is is just an overall review of

31:19several processes and procedures that we

31:21have. It's looking at people, process,

31:23and technology. From there, they can

31:25make recommendations if there's any

31:26areas that we might want to go into

31:28deeper. Um but that's what that health

31:31check would provide. Um we all we also

31:33have here financial dashboarding. This

31:35is something that I have been wanting to

31:37do for a very long time since we've um

31:39got on the our new Oracle Fusion Cloud

31:42system in that these dashboards could

31:44provide decision makers whether it's um

31:47the directors or um the executives um

31:52just um like timely information

31:54reporting different metrics things like

31:57that. So they come in, they look at,

31:59they make recommendations on those

32:00metrices that would be good for us to

32:02review, but they also set the dashboards

32:04up, they provide the training and all

32:06the things that we would need to carry

32:08those um that that dashboarding on. And

32:11lastly, they recommended fraud

32:13prevention and mitigation. As you can

32:15imagine, this would allow them to do

32:16risk assessments. It would allow them to

32:18look at our internal controls and if

32:20there are any gaps there, they said, you

32:22know, they make recommendations for how

32:24we can um improve

32:27with those four areas of focus. They of

32:29course provided us with some pricing um

32:31here. Um I won't go through each one of

32:34the four, but the range would it it

32:37depends on what you all discuss of what

32:38you want um done. It can be from $5,000

32:42up to about 75 80,000 depending on what

32:45you all um want.

32:49looking at next steps based on what you

32:51all discussed today. We will follow up

32:53with Cherry Beckard and we will start

32:55talking about statement of work. Um and

32:57from at that point we will have a more

33:00um defined scope of pricing that we will

33:03come back to you all in a staff report

33:05making the recommendation to pull from

33:06your midyear appropriation um during a

33:09later meeting. And we are proposing that

33:12well we know that this work would begin

33:14sometime after the work that we're doing

33:16now with our fiscal year 2026 audit

33:19which is probably in the spring of 27

33:25discussion.

33:28>> Can you talk a little bit about what

33:31this looks like on the ground? So you

33:35mentioned if you go back to the list

33:38[clears throat] you mentioned as an

33:39example which I thought was a great

33:40description financial dashboarding.

33:43So is that coming in and building up

33:46financial dashboard for us that will

33:49live in perpetuity. So they're doing

33:51like the work of a contractor or they do

33:54that every year. What does that look

33:56like? my understanding. Now, of course,

33:59when we sit down and do the statement of

34:00work, we'll be able to find it a little

34:02bit more. But from preliminary

34:03conversations, they come in, they hear

34:06from us about some things that we may

34:08find useful. They make recommendations

34:10for some things that may be useful to

34:12municipalities um of our size, but they

34:15create the dashboard, they build it,

34:17>> and they provide

34:18>> in our system.

34:19>> And our Yes. Yes. pulling our data.

34:22um and they provide the training and

34:24what's needed for us to maintain it. Um

34:27that that's preliminary conversations.

34:29Now whether they're available to you

34:31know manage it and continue it we have

34:34not had that discussion from our

34:35discussions. It was more about equipping

34:37us. So what are the kinds of problems

34:42that you hope it might solve or what are

34:44the insights you think that financial

34:47dashboarding might provide

34:49>> because I don't know enough about it to

34:51help decide which of these is better

34:54which ones do we need. So from my

34:56perspective, it's more about equipping

34:58um the department heads for example to

35:00be able to come in each morning. They

35:02may be able to pull up a dashboard in

35:03the system, you know, their results,

35:05revenue, well, not revenues, h their

35:08expenditures, um performance, um

35:10measures,

35:11um any other metric metrices, it allows

35:14them to have that information. We don't

35:15have that today. So most of the

35:18financial reporting that our directors

35:19may get now and let you know we we have

35:22some ad hockey throughout the

35:23organization but um is more about when

35:26we do quarterlies or when they call and

35:28they ask it's not self- serving for

35:30them. So this will allow them to be able

35:32to do that.

35:33>> That's really helpful.

35:34>> Yeah,

35:34>> I can see that insight being really

35:36valuable.

35:36>> Yeah.

35:40>> Have you gotten feedback from the

35:42departments so far? Are we early enough

35:45that we haven't had too many I mean are

35:48do we have some departments that are

35:49like we need this like yesterday or

35:52>> so I have not heard that we are early to

35:54where we can start you know um asking

35:56those questions what I do know is

35:59through [clears throat] various

36:00conversations some people may have some

36:02level of dashboarding that they're doing

36:05so I I know that it's useful if other

36:07departments hear about it they're like

36:08yeah that will be useful you know that

36:10that type of um conversation that we've

36:12had so

36:15Uh for number two, financial operation

36:17health check. Uh could you please

36:20explain more details because um that um

36:25let us know is need more there more

36:28risks or you give details like numbers

36:31of the health check.

36:33>> Um I don't know what their deliverable

36:35per se will be at this time. What I my

36:37understanding is that this will be an

36:39overall review of processes in general.

36:41We have a whole bunch of processes that

36:43we're financial processes that we're

36:44running across the organization. So

36:46they're able to see um what we're doing,

36:49how we're doing, connecting the people,

36:51the processes and technology to see if

36:53there's work, if that's working, if

36:55there's any gaps. But what this will

36:57allow them to do is to see those

36:59processes where we may have larger gaps

37:02that we may need to do a deeper dive

37:04into for improvements. You know, we

37:06might need to do something differently.

37:08And that's outside perspective

37:10independent

37:11>> review.

37:12>> Yes.

37:12>> So to speak.

37:13>> Yes.

37:14>> Yeah.

37:16>> The my gut reaction if you're looking

37:18for [clears throat]

37:19because I are you looking for direction

37:22>> here or thought my gut reaction the most

37:24important one is policy and procedure

37:26evaluation and update. Um I think that

37:30is in some respects how we policy 175

37:34was overlooked of the 33 and a third and

37:39for me that is that just bubbles up to

37:42the top but identifying which of the 191

37:47>> right

37:48>> policies need [clears throat]

37:50Jerry Beckard's review would be an

37:54entirely different discussion.

37:56>> Yeah. Um, but that's just one just

37:59because it it came up in the audit. It

38:01was the reason for

38:04everything

38:05that from my perspective that that would

38:08be the most important.

38:10What [clears throat] what you'll be

38:12surprised

38:14is as much as I'm a data nerd

38:16>> and like the idea of the financial

38:18dashboarding, I would put that last and

38:21the reason is because ERP systems are

38:23not that hard. And if we were to find

38:28externs or other people, I mean, that

38:30would be the easiest to find college

38:33kids. I mean, I've built one of those

38:35myself. So, it's and with AI tools now,

38:38it's

38:38>> it would be probably the most impactful

38:41from a visibility perspective. The only

38:44thing I would say that would be

38:46different would be if there was a way to

38:48use a dashboard for pecards

38:50>> given again

38:52>> taking what we can do based on where

38:55we've been that would be the one that

38:58I'd pull out because I think that might

39:01from a visibility perspective that might

39:03offer more transparency

39:06um also some real eyes on that from from

39:11everyone. So, but I but the others

39:13health tech I think that's important but

39:15the policy for me fraud prevention you

39:18all caught that right you you've found

39:21that the when we had some issues before

39:24right the checks

39:25>> um I think it's important but if I had

39:27to put them in priority order that would

39:29be personal

39:31>> but are you looking for priority order

39:33are you looking for us to discuss that

39:35price list and say which one of these

39:37you want to do

39:38>> I would love for the direction on which

39:40ones you'd want or if you don't want to

39:42do anything or you want to add anything

39:44was also kind of the the point to bring

39:46it to you. It's not a decision

39:48>> per se tonight on the funding or

39:50otherwise

39:51>> but it'll allow us to bring you a staff

39:53report back based on the feedback we

39:54hear tonight. Yeah.

39:55>> If there's consensus.

39:57>> So then that would bring up the question

39:59is there any you don't want feedback on

40:03>> because to me Sure.

40:05>> bring it back.

40:06>> It's easy to decide what you don't want

40:08some that rather than what you do want.

40:09Is that what you mean?

40:11Yeah, I'll admit I'm I'm torn because

40:14considering our current circumstances,

40:16we gave you the direction that we said

40:18maybe some additional scrutiny is

40:20warranted. Um, now that we know the

40:23dollars it will take for that additional

40:25scrutiny. I don't know if I'm quite as

40:27enthusiastic.

40:28Um, in part because uh our our audits

40:33have not been problematic. Um, you know,

40:35our our audits from a procedural

40:38standpoint, I mean, we just renewed our

40:40contract with Cherry Beckard, so we have

40:42faith in their auditing work and our

40:46audits, help me out, Kimberly, with the

40:48the turn of phrase, clean.

40:50>> Yes.

40:50>> Clean.

40:51>> Clean. Our our audits have been clean.

40:55Um, and so

40:58I would I I'm hesitant to invest these

41:01dollars,

41:03not not feeling entirely confident that

41:06it's a a investment that's needed, that

41:09we'll get the return on investment for

41:11what is a fairly significant amount of

41:13additional money when our audits have

41:17been delivering what's been expected.

41:20Um, you know, I mean, I suppose I'll

41:23I'll ask the question that's a little

41:24bit of the elephant in the room. Would

41:26any of these additional services

41:28>> My question

41:29>> brought to light any of the issues that

41:33happened in recent years, would it have

41:36surfaced those concerns to council any

41:39sooner? I mean if this is part of an

41:41annual audit process, I mean dashboards

41:44ongoing notwithstanding, but if this is

41:47done on an you at a a a annual basis as

41:51a point in time,

41:53would it have surfaced anything any

41:55sooner because it wouldn't have been

41:59right an an ongoing process?

42:02>> Yeah. So are you asking me for my

42:04recommendation like

42:05>> I that was that was a messy question.

42:08Yeah. Um, so throughout all of the work

42:10that we've been doing, I've always said

42:12like we can include we can improve on

42:14our internal controls like at every

42:16level we can improve. So I do think

42:18fraud prevention and mitigation where

42:19they're assessing assessing risk

42:22>> pairing it with internal controls is a

42:24we could that would add value um for

42:26sure because it would allow us to know

42:28the areas that are at risk that we need

42:30to um work on. So I appreciate

42:34I appreciate se several of them. So I'm

42:36not going to Yeah. [laughter]

42:38>> Prioritize it for you, but I do think

42:40fraud prevention mitigation

42:42>> would have helped.

42:43>> Has Cherry Becker

42:46>> is this a list that they suggested?

42:49>> This is a list that they suggested based

42:51on the work. They know what we've um

42:53been responding to. So, yes, this is

42:55their list.

42:56>> So, I'm just curious if they had said

42:58any more that, you know, we we now know

43:01that this happened and if they have

43:04thoughts on if any of that

43:07you know, being that they do this work

43:09every day.

43:10>> Also, we have been made aware that we

43:15had an internal auditor.

43:19>> I I don't know when it was. I guess

43:21before me um but and that we um that

43:24that position was taken away. So, what

43:27differences will it bring with an

43:29internal auditor coming in and the work

43:32that they would do?

43:33>> I was going to add to that. That's

43:34probably why to some degree it's good

43:36timing because we're currently

43:37recruiting for that position. It may

43:39have closed that you don't have the

43:40latest.

43:41>> Um so this would be done in advance and

43:44can then help us establish um you know

43:46maybe better internal audit process

43:48through some of these services. Right.

43:50So I feel like that's why if we're going

43:51to use Cherry Beckard more, it's good

43:53timing.

43:54>> Um and then it'll remain to be seen um

43:57what we do in that program and how many

43:59staff might be required to do what we

44:01wish to do. As you know, we're hiring

44:03one person and I don't want to put too

44:04much pressure on them. Um, but depending

44:07on what we end up finding out of more

44:08best practices, we may want to do more

44:10internal auditing throughout the the

44:12entire year.

44:13>> Right? So perhaps we think about it as

44:15being an initial step and then we have

44:20our internal auditor come on board and

44:23then we go from there to see

44:25>> because it may not be that we would need

44:27all of this annually and maybe it would

44:30but

44:31>> that we're not necessarily

44:34>> I don't know that's a lot of numbers to

44:35add up in my head but if we're not

44:36necessarily doing all of that every year

44:38right but right what of that would we

44:40wanted as an initial step with our

44:42internal auditor coming on And I think

44:44that's how we're looking at at it as an

44:46internal step.

44:48>> Um, and there's also the timeliness

44:50component, right? Like, so they're an

44:52external independent contractor, which,

44:55you know, has a different voice than

44:57people from the inside. So that kind of

44:59allows us to have a to build a

45:01foundation based on um their work, their

45:03independent work.

45:05>> That's a I mean, that's a really good

45:06point that you bring up. Are are there

45:09are some of these

45:11aligned in a way that either our

45:14internal auditor

45:17could actually implement? Is there value

45:19to having them outside rather than

45:21inside? It seems to me that I mean just

45:24thinking of policy 175

45:27honestly we should have caught that

45:29right or or sorry we at the council

45:33should have been aware of that. Maybe

45:34>> do you want to state for the public what

45:36that is? Oh, sorry. That was the that we

45:39should have a fund balance of 33 and

45:41a3%.

45:43That wasn't called out in the internal

45:44audit because we didn't have a service

45:47that said, "Please align your audit

45:51to um to our policies.

45:54The um visibility of that not was

45:58actually called out in the OSA report.

46:02So I do think that if an internal

46:05auditor is going to

46:08do number one as an example, then we'd

46:11have visibility to it. We might not need

46:14an external auditor to do it. I but I

46:16don't know what the job description is

46:18of an internal auditor compared to this.

46:21Is this normally done by an external

46:24group or are these things done by an

46:27internal group?

46:29>> [clears throat]

46:30>> So an internal auditor in looking at

46:33this list um and thinking about the work

46:35my understanding now there's you know

46:37there could be some expanded um

46:39understanding they would definitely work

46:41in the number fours and they would

46:43definitely work in the twos.

46:45>> Okay.

46:46>> Yeah. But from a rewrite policy that

46:49type of thing that is one of those if we

46:51get some assistance we'd like it from a

46:53timeliness let's go ahead and get it

46:55knocked out. Um a third party could do

46:57that for us. And Kim, it it also to be

46:59fair, it doesn't mean that your staff's

47:00not doing it. It's an audit to what

47:02we're already doing.

47:03>> That's right. That's right.

47:04>> So just another checks and balances to

47:07the team.

47:08>> Yes. So the purpose of the internal

47:09auditor too is to allow Carrie to be

47:12audit ready when needed. So they're

47:15doing separate plans, procedures,

47:17testing what we're doing so that we can

47:19make those improvements to process or

47:22whatever those improvements need to be

47:23so that we're ready for the um audit

47:26time, external audit time.

47:29>> Is is it common to have one auditor for

47:33an organization and budget this size?

47:37>> Um not going to I don't I'm not I can't

47:40tell you that research on that. I would

47:41say one is better than what we currently

47:44have had.

47:44>> That's right. That's right.

47:45>> Let's give ourselves some credit.

47:47>> That's right.

47:48>> And you we can build more as we go and

47:51as we learn and what their duties and

47:53responsibilities are.

47:54>> Yep. I I think you're all hitting on um

47:57some important things which is a year

48:01into this

48:03um

48:05u we've learned a lot. we all learned a

48:08lot and uh and there's a lot of changes

48:11already being made um already have been

48:14made and so I think I hear what you're

48:17saying uh is you know you're just kind

48:19of questioning this a little bit more

48:21when you know we already making progress

48:24and so the the way I would probably

48:27describe it um well there's kind of two

48:29things uh we would really want um this

48:35to be able to serve you in the way that

48:37you would like it to serve you, if that

48:39makes sense. Um because that's part of

48:42the benefit of the um external auditor

48:46doing it is is to provide you with some

48:49things that you might need. Um having

48:52said that, from the staff's perspective,

48:57uh Lauri, you kind of hit on it. I mean,

48:59we're going to be doing all these

49:00things. It's just almost like fast

49:03helping to fasttrack some things, if

49:05that makes sense.

49:06um kind of give a little bit of extra

49:09push

49:11um because we're already well on our

49:13way. You know, the in hopefully we'll

49:15have an internal auditor um soon. The

49:18internal auditor will work on um

49:20procedures associated with that.

49:23>> Um of course, we're working on the

49:25procurement um policy um ideas and

49:29recommendations for you as well as the

49:32fund balance ideas and recommendations

49:34for you. Uh and so it's really helping

49:38to kind of help push some things along a

49:42little bit faster. Um but equally as

49:44much to serve the interest that you have

49:46in the information that you would like

49:48to receive for which you know you're

49:50receiving significantly more than you

49:53did a year ago.

49:56>> So are there any OSA

49:58line items that align with any of these

50:02proposed items? Would it behoove us to

50:07>> we should say

50:08>> do it

50:09>> um internal staff teams are already

50:12working on all the recommendations. So

50:14this is not to supplant anything that

50:15we're currently working on on the

50:17schedule that we've um provided the OSA

50:20and that we intend to meet. Um I think

50:23it's best and Dana kind of said it would

50:25bolster where we're at or maybe where

50:27we're headed you know moving forward.

50:29>> Would any of them help you do that

50:30quicker or better or faster? I don't

50:34believe quicker or faster.

50:36>> Yeah, because this is just giving us a

50:38framework and some things to work in the

50:41future. It's going ahead and identifying

50:42some things we may need to work on.

50:44>> And I view it as kind of a third party

50:46looking at the policies and procedures

50:48we've just updated and saying, "Yeah,

50:51>> do we have it or no, you missed it or

50:53yeah,

50:54>> just help the council to make better

50:57decisions like faster decisions to give

50:59us confidence that those uh policy or

51:03procedures are working well.

51:05>> A second opinion.

51:06>> A second. Okay.

51:10>> And I I feel the policy and procedure

51:13uh should be the most important one

51:16because the council are always making

51:19very few decisions in limited meetings.

51:24So which whatever will help us to make

51:27high quality decisions I think that will

51:29be very helpful uh for the rest and I

51:33what I heard from Dana is like it will

51:36help the council will need them right

51:39>> to

51:41>> I I think you could um you could use it

51:45as a way to kind of doublech checkck

51:48things I I think is the best way to

51:49describe it.

51:51>> Okay. Thank you.

51:52>> Again no decision and I Um, keep talking

51:55about it if you wish. I think we can

51:58refine this and bring it back in a staff

52:00report and then you can

52:01>> with recommendations.

52:02>> Yes.

52:02>> Yep.

52:03>> If that's

52:05right,

52:06>> thank you.

52:10>> Well, there you go. See, next steps

52:12[snorts]

52:13[laughter]

52:13>> just like you said. Um I just wanted to

52:16provide an update on um you know some

52:20information that's kind of come out

52:22>> um you recently working with the

52:24residents along Ederly and then with the

52:26DOT but obviously we got approval by the

52:29DOT to install an uh intermediate

52:32measure um which is a rapid flashing

52:35beacon and you all council appropriated

52:37$50,000 to do that. So that will be a

52:40installed next week and we'll include

52:42this information in tomorrow's weekly

52:44report. Um and obviously as an interim

52:47measure DOT um and us are putting

52:49information on our websites regarding

52:51this and then DOT will continue along

52:53with the project that they hope to do um

52:55you know in the next year for a um

52:57pedestrian hybrid beacon ultimately.

53:00>> So this will include um signs at the

53:03crosswalk with push buttons. It will

53:05also include some uh signage in advance

53:07of the crosswalk. All that will flash um

53:10and light up like you've seen in other

53:12places in Kerry. Um and I think some

53:14stop signs u pedestrian type stop signs

53:17as you approach the crossing. So just

53:20wanted to give a quick update as that's

53:21going to start happening next week.

53:26All right. And then as you may have seen

53:28and we certainly saw uh at town hall

53:30today with uh parking and uh lines

53:32outside of Herb Young, but early voting

53:34uh for the general election started

53:36today and just wanted to make this

53:38announcements for those that may be

53:39watching. Um there are two sites or

53:42there are multiple there are 18 sites in

53:44Wake County. Uh one is here at Herb

53:47Young Community Center and another one

53:48is at the senior center in Kerry and the

53:51uh dates and times are listed. And then

53:53there are several sites in Chattam

53:55County and two very close proximity to

53:58us. Um well, one closer but in Apex as

54:01you approach Jordan Lake and two options

54:03in Pittsboro. So again, you can find

54:05more about this information on the

54:07website and I imagine lines will

54:09continue for the next two weeks.

54:12Uh just real quick on the moving forward

54:13dashboard. Um as we do with each um work

54:17session, there will be more updates made

54:19this Friday and then there's a series of

54:20staff reports that will be on your

54:22agenda for next week with updates um on

54:25several recommendations that you'll

54:26actually even take action on at your

54:28next regular meeting. So I won't go

54:30through all of them tonight. Um but

54:33including the Cherry Beckard item is

54:35really part of the moving forward.

54:38So, um, unless there's any questions,

54:40that's all I have for tonight.

54:43>> Is that the end of the agenda?

54:45>> Yes, sir.

54:46>> I would entertain a motion to go into

54:47close session.

54:49>> Uh, pursuant to GS1 143 318 11A13 and 6.

54:54I move that we hold a close session to

54:56consult with attorneys employed by and

54:58or retained by the town in order to

55:00preserve the attorney claim privilege

55:01between the attorneys and the town.

55:04prevent the disclosure of information

55:05that's made privileged or confidential

55:07pursuant to the laws of the state or not

55:09considered a public record within the

55:12meaning of chapter 132 of the general

55:13statutes and to consider the

55:15qualifications, competence, performance,

55:17character, fitness, conditions of

55:19employment or appointment or initial

55:22employment of one or more individual

55:23public officers or employees.

55:25>> There's a motion. Is there a second?

55:28>> Second.

55:29>> Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

55:31>> I.

55:32>> Any oppose? Motion carries and we are

55:33now going into close session.

2:27:23Council is reconvening the work session

2:27:26after our close session. We have no

2:27:27further business. So, this work session

2:27:30has been ended. Thank you.