2026-09-28 - Council Recommendations Committee

04:58Sorry for closing the door.

05:00>> [laughter]

05:01>> Locking you out.

05:03>> Chrissy's tough.

05:04>> We're not going to lock you in.

05:13>> And Mayor, we are live whenever you're

05:16ready to go.

05:16>> Okay.

05:17Go ahead and call the recommendation

05:19meeting to order.

05:22We Our last order of business was to

05:25give an update to the council. We talked

05:27to them about

05:29salary and allowance recommendations

05:33and creating a resident committee. We

05:35also gave them an update on benefits.

05:38Uh at the time Well, still is true that

05:42any changes we make to the salary

05:44would come after the next budget or be

05:46part of the next budget. Uh but it's

05:49been pointed out to me since that time

05:51that the auditor expects us to have a

05:56change in place by February, which would

05:59mean we probably need something done by

06:02January, which probably means we need to

06:05create create the committee as soon as

06:07possible.

06:08So, I would recommend that we spend this

06:11evening working on

06:13the charge for the recommendation

06:16committee, and maybe that only take a

06:18few minutes, and then we'll go back to

06:20where

06:21we were last time in the deep dive.

06:22>> We've got plenty of work to do, so we

06:24can dive in anywhere.

06:25>> And and our next meeting, just so we are

06:29in sync, was October

06:32>> 22nd.

06:33>> Thank you.

06:34>> Yes.

06:35>> All right, we'll look.

06:36October 22nd, and do you know what day

06:38of the week that is?

06:39>> Thursday right before a council meeting.

06:42>> Okay, it's Thursday, [clears throat]

06:43October 22nd.

06:44>> Yep.

06:45>> Got it.

06:46>> And

06:47to help with the discussion, I'm going

06:48to pass out

06:50uh recommendations residents task force.

06:52It's kind of like a something to work

06:53from as you start your discussions. The

06:55front being just staff impact, so it's

06:57more of a FYI, but the back being um

07:02the way we're thinking about how we

07:03assist you in creating this committee

07:05from the clerk's office, knowing that

07:06we'll probably be involved with like

07:08gathering names and making sure they're

07:10um

07:12aware of the charge and the

07:14um appointment process, is we just

07:16dropped it email.

07:18And um this is kind of something to

07:20start with.

07:21>> That's so helpful. Thank you.

07:23>> And while she's passing that out,

07:26so any recommendations

07:28we make tonight that needs council

07:31approval will go to

07:34which meeting?

07:36So, if we say council needs to approve

07:40creating this committee, actually

07:42creating it because I think

07:44the direction was to ask us to move

07:47forward in this process.

07:50And now what we're going to do tonight,

07:52I think, is um

07:55make a recommendation that okay, this

07:57committee needs to be created in October

08:00um with member from each advisory board

08:03and

08:04here's the charge or things we'd like

08:06them to focus on.

08:08So,

08:09that would be in the October

08:13what meeting?

08:14>> Yeah, um

08:18So, if you were to return back to the

08:19town board, there's two meetings in

08:20October. There's October 8th and then

08:22October the 22nd.

08:24>> So, we can at least say council, we need

08:27you to create that committee, approve

08:29creating that committee.

08:31And then in October 22nd

08:33for the council meeting, we can give the

08:35charge. God, that's kind of late.

08:37Hopefully not.

08:38Uh maybe we can get it done this

08:40>> Mhm.

08:40>> So.

08:41>> And

08:42just as a reminder, the action at the

08:43work session was to form a resident

08:45committee to recommend um compensation.

08:48Each advisory board designate a member.

08:50Recommendations committee define the

08:51charge

08:53and work to begin later this year or

08:54early next year.

08:55>> So, we already passed that.

08:57>> So, Lisa, is that the way you understand

08:59it?

08:59>> Yes, so I think you're

09:00down to working

09:01>> Okay. Okay.

09:02>> So, you're down to working on the

09:04charge.

09:04>> Okay.

09:05>> And

09:05>> That's even better.

09:06>> in an an order of operations question,

09:10we can though maybe do something

09:12simultaneously, which is to say uh the

09:15clerk's office could send out this email

09:18to start the recruitment process even as

09:21we're still developing what the charge

09:23will be when that

09:25when the the composition is finalized.

09:27>> Yeah.

09:27>> Okay.

09:29Okay.

09:29>> So, it sounds like maybe we can

09:31>> Mhm.

09:31>> do a few things at the same time.

09:33>> Yeah, and then

09:35um line within here just about a related

09:37charges can be modified. This was just

09:39draft, um,

09:40but just wanted to give them something

09:43that they can expect if they haven't

09:45watched any of this.

09:46>> Sure.

09:46>> Mhm. So, hopefully.

09:51I

09:51I didn't look back at that motion, but

09:52the motion was to form a resident

09:54committee to recommend compensation. So,

09:56I would just clean that up here.

09:58>> Mhm.

09:58>> So, glancing at this, this was assuming

10:01one meeting a month?

10:03>> Um, you

10:05um,

10:07>> Which

10:08>> Yeah. The emails on the back, the front

10:10page is um, staff impact per one meeting

10:13a month. It was just more of an FYI.

10:15There's not

10:17um,

10:18when you get into

10:22when you get into maybe if you look at

10:23the back page to decide on public access

10:26beyond attending in person and calling

10:27in. So, if you live stream it, that's

10:29where some of the staff impact comes

10:31into play as well. Cuz that does um,

10:34bring in additional staff members for

10:36live stream

10:37assistance.

10:39>> Okay.

10:42Do you think we should let the committee

10:45determine how often they want to meet?

10:48We've got Thanksgiving, we've got

10:50December holidays,

10:52and we're hoping they're done by

10:53January, end of January.

10:57>> I think it'll partly depend on how big

11:01the charge is, too.

11:02>> Mhm.

11:03Okay.

11:04>> So, maybe once we have a

11:08firm definition of the scope of work,

11:10that might let them know just how much

11:13we're tasking them with.

11:15>> Okay.

11:16>> And

11:17they can go beyond

11:18um,

11:19I said the OSA deadline is February, but

11:22they could go beyond that on other

11:23things that maybe are related to the

11:24Womble and the Gerrymander.

11:27>> Mhm.

11:29Yeah, they don't have to end in January.

11:32Yeah.

11:33Okay, where would you like to begin?

11:36>> Well, this email that Jenny has provided

11:39us. So, Jenny, this is going to staff

11:41liaisons to outline the process for them

11:44to get our board chairs. So, just sort

11:48of going through a a chain of command,

11:50so to speak. Um so, I mean

11:52uh I think this looks like a a great way

11:55to get the process started.

11:57And I think you've uh left a lot of room

12:00in the language here for us to continue

12:03to draft the charge.

12:06>> I would rewrite that first sentence, and

12:08that's the only place where I would

12:11uh finagle the copy a little bit.

12:14Um

12:16Okay. I mean, since we've received

12:18approval to create a resident advisory

12:20task force to

12:24I don't know that assist council with

12:26recommendations related to the

12:28investigation is tight enough to make it

12:30clear.

12:31I would say

12:33to

12:35make recommendations

12:38for

12:41new policies

12:44that were identified by the the three

12:49investigations, if we want to use that

12:50word, um last year.

12:54Does that Does that make sense? Like, I

12:55know that's kind of splitting hairs a

12:56little bit, but

12:58to make it clear what we're asking them.

13:00>> Yes.

13:00>> All right, makes sense.

13:07>> Yes, I I agree with that language, and

13:09we can make that

13:13>> New policies to address issues

13:15identified, is that what you meant to

13:17say?

13:17>> specific

13:19or council specific issues identified in

13:22last year's investigations.

13:24I think mak- making it clear that we're

13:26asking them to make recommendations to

13:28address

13:31>> [clears throat]

13:31>> what was recommended. But the problem is

13:35we're the recommendations committee

13:36asking them to recommend

13:38recommendations.

13:41To do the recommendations recommended.

13:47>> [laughter]

13:47>> I sound like a lawyer.

13:53>> [clears throat]

13:54>> But other than that, this

13:58>> Yeah, I mean

13:59write it in a way that will send it to

14:01the staff liaison and the clerks.

14:03They'll pass it along hopefully to the

14:05whole board. So we write it in a way

14:07that maybe people read it before and

14:09they come ready with it whether or not

14:11they need a volume.

14:12>> Absolutely. Yeah.

14:19>> Okay.

14:20>> And I was just looking. I want to make

14:21sure

14:23I'm clear and we're clear when we talk

14:24about

14:25>> February 2027.

14:27>> Um

14:29date of implementation

14:31that we communicated to the auditor's

14:34office.

14:35That was on council travel meal expenses

14:39and council education reimbursement

14:41policy.

14:42>> Okay.

14:44Which I wasn't sure that's what you're

14:46charging the task force with. So I

14:48wanted to just be clear. Is there

14:50another one, Jenny, am I missing?

14:51>> The compensation.

14:52>> The compensation was not a auditor they

14:56don't audit her.

15:00>> I just put artificial pressure on the

15:02community the task force if we don't

15:03have to.

15:05I think the way it

15:07I'm just looking at what's online from

15:09the

15:10our response to the auditor.

15:14Um we write in a way

15:17So there's two of them. Council

15:19education reimbursement policy, council

15:21travel bill and expense policy.

15:23And our day of implementation of policy

15:26will be considered with related council

15:28training education policies. Council

15:30policy approval is targeted for

15:31completion by February 2027 and requires

15:33a vote by council in open session.

15:39Yes, so I don't know that we've

15:41come to that decision yet. My personal

15:45preference

15:47recommendation, my my personal

15:49recommendation to the recommendation

15:51committee before we recommend it to the

15:52council

15:53>> [laughter]

15:54>> is uh

15:56that we

15:58continue our work as a body on

16:01>> Mhm.

16:02>> the work essentially we were doing last

16:04week, travel, training, and meals, and

16:07that we narrow the scope of the resident

16:09advisory committee to compensation.

16:12Being salary and allowances.

16:16>> Agree. And then if we can't What the way

16:19I envisioned it is if we come to an

16:22impasse say

16:23where we're just not sure like we think

16:25one of these things, we could also bring

16:28ad hoc questions to them. They can

16:31always say no, we don't want to consider

16:32that or or if they must disband or you

16:35know, something like that. But we you

16:37know,

16:39maybe we when we do the charge, we can

16:41say and if you know, you're willing and

16:43able to continue to serve, we may have

16:45additional ad hoc

16:46um

16:48considerations for you to potentially

16:50make a recommendation to council on.

16:52>> So,

16:54the sentence will go second sentence

16:56will topics will include compensation

16:59and allowances for elected officials and

17:01potentially

17:04la la la.

17:06>> Yeah, I I

17:09I could see rewriting that sentence. So,

17:10topics will include compensation and

17:12allowances for elected officials

17:15and take out that second clause there

17:18between the commas and just leave it and

17:20potentially other related matters

17:22identified by council.

17:27Because to your point, Chrissa, I could

17:29see a universe, depending on how our

17:31work goes, in which we

17:33do get a version of travel, training,

17:36and meals recommended,

17:38voted, and approved by council while the

17:41resident committee is still doing their

17:43work. And as opposed to tasking them

17:45with creating that out of whole cloth of

17:50them being essentially an extra set of

17:52eyes to say,

17:53>> If we so choose, right?

17:54>> If we so choose, here is our new policy.

17:58Is it It's maybe it would be an

18:00opportunity to see alignment with

18:01whatever the recommendations that the

18:03committee is going to bring, but that we

18:05could have we could still continue down

18:07this path.

18:08>> We could also have a majority of council

18:10support something that some work product

18:12like that, but we could have three that

18:14go, "I'm only in here's what I prefer."

18:16And, you know, even if we did have a

18:19simple majority, it might in that case

18:22be something that you would take to a

18:23group for

18:25kind of unbiased third party feedback.

18:29>> So, now I'm going to

18:32>> [clears throat]

18:32>> go to technical stuff. If I'm a

18:34committee member, the first thing I'm

18:36going to ask is

18:38what night are you guys meeting on? Cuz

18:41I can only meet on blah blah blah blah

18:42blah.

18:44So, we probably need to decide the night

18:46and we probably need to know what's

18:48available.

18:49>> So, Ginny did

18:52include the bullet there.

18:53>> I haven't turned the page.

18:55>> That

18:55the recurring meeting dates have not

18:58been established. The task force will

19:00determine its meeting schedule once the

19:02membership is in place, and that is how

19:04we did it.

19:05>> Okay.

19:05>> We chose our members first and then the

19:07three of us sat down and compared

19:09calendars. So, maybe it does make sense

19:11to let them first choose their members.

19:14And you know, maybe we should point out

19:17though to the staff liaisons as they're

19:19helping the boards decide amongst

19:21themselves. We have not yet determined a

19:25recurring meeting time and place, but

19:26think about your feasible availability

19:31should you want to throw your hat in the

19:33ring.

19:33>> Okay.

19:35Because if we Yeah, I mean

19:40the people that volunteer the most tend

19:41to have the tightest schedules.

19:44>> [laughter]

19:44>> Right? And you'll end up with kind of a

19:46mix of I can do anytime. I'm retired and

19:49I'm only available for these two hour

19:51blocks every week.

19:51>> Cuz I would assume we are thinking of

19:54evening times like most of our boards to

19:57accommodate standard work schedules.

20:00>> We could um we

20:03we actually had a paragraph in there and

20:04took it out. We know that it won't occur

20:06on the same night as another meeting

20:09because that would take away that would

20:10give that person who volunteers an

20:13absent from the board.

20:14>> Yeah.

20:14>> And so we found some slots that we could

20:17offer a Wednesday maybe at 5:00 before

20:20HPC.

20:21>> It would probably be really helpful if

20:23you listed the probably most likely

20:25potential meeting times that don't

20:27conflict with current board schedules

20:29cuz that's actually a really good point.

20:32If I'm on the

20:34public art advisory board I'm like,

20:36well, as long as it's not 6:15 on

20:38Wednesdays, I'm good and not thinking,

20:40oh, well, others are on Mondays and

20:41Tuesdays and

20:42>> I have to admit, I am shocked that there

20:44is any date and time on the calendar

20:46that we could manage to find.

20:48>> Okay, there [laughter] you go. We will

20:50also throw out like they could do

20:51daytime meetings. So we do have the

20:53senior board that meets during the

20:54daytime and so

20:57we'll do daytime meetings as well just

20:59depending on the makeup of the board.

21:02>> Well, you know what? And you did uh

21:04I thought I saw the language in here or

21:05perhaps it's on the other side. Oh, just

21:07had a public access, but um you know

21:11what would be the flexibility for the

21:13standing

21:15members to meet remotely um

21:19because I'm sure that could open up a

21:20lot of daytime access for working people

21:22if they could hold the meeting remote.

21:26>> It would be up to you all and also

21:28decide if you wanted to make this like

21:30an in-person or maybe

21:32>> I think remote is fine.

21:33>> I think for this it

21:35>> Yeah.

21:35>> Anything we can do to make it more

21:38as flexible as possible for the

21:40residents

21:41>> It's almost 2027. Everything should be

21:43remote at this point. Says the woman who

21:45works remotely.

21:46>> Yeah, above and beyond. So I I have no

21:48objection to giving them a a full remote

21:50option.

21:52For the whole board or just a hybrid for

21:54those who want to come in and

21:58>> I would make it the whole board.

22:00It'd probably be easier.

22:05>> We can make anything happen.

22:07So.

22:08>> It's always very awkward to be here with

22:10one or two people and

22:11>> Yes.

22:12>> Yeah.

22:13>> What does that do to staff if it's only

22:15remote? Is it better or worse?

22:17>> Well, I'll tell you

22:19I don't think we have a preference

22:20better or worse. If they do remote

22:24um

22:26and let's see. If we do remote and it's

22:29during the day, you know, that works

22:30well cuz the building

22:32we don't have to open the building at

22:34night for somebody to be here and stuff

22:35like that. And

22:38if

22:39if you're also good with like the public

22:41joining remotely, I don't know if that's

22:43a call-in or if you want to live stream

22:45it. We can all make that happen. So I

22:48would say it eliminates that physical

22:50building and all the stuff that goes

22:51into that.

22:52>> I'm inclined to go that route.

22:55>> I'm there.

22:55>> Fully remote, okay.

23:02Do you

23:04Does the public access this as a live

23:05stream or just call in like we do other

23:07boards?

23:09>> Like other boards.

23:10>> Yeah.

23:12>> I'm assuming that's simplest.

23:13>> Yeah.

23:20Yeah, I could see this opening up a lot

23:22of scheduling opportunities

23:24for our volunteers. Because that and

23:28because they're not actually like making

23:31final decisions, Lisa.

23:33Like fully remote is okay because of

23:34it's an advisory board.

23:36>> Mhm.

23:36>> [clears throat]

23:38>> It It Is it when there's voting involved

23:41that it needs to be not remote?

23:43>> Yes. Well, so the council has a separate

23:46statute that governs the council and

23:48that statute indicates that you all need

23:50[clears throat] to be in person to vote.

23:51>> Mhm.

23:52>> Um for boards and commissions,

23:54um we just need to have open meetings.

23:57>> Okay.

23:57>> can be, you know, any way we want to do

23:59it.

23:59>> Except for board of adjustments one of

24:02our special our special boards.

24:04And when they do something

24:06quasi-judicial, it's a little different.

24:08Um but the rest of the boards that are

24:09just making recommendations, that's

24:10fine.

24:11>> Okay.

24:16>> Okay.

24:18What else about meetings?

24:21>> And then the third thing is just that

24:24council is on appointment. That is by

24:26the mayor.

24:27>> Mhm.

24:28>> And um you should typically be at a

24:30regular meeting

24:32or open session. It could happen at work

24:33session. So deciding

24:35if you wanted the council to want to it.

24:40>> I would say no.

24:41>> I think this is a very specific case

24:43where we are looking to get as much

24:46objectivity as possible. I think the

24:49answer is no if we don't absolutely have

24:51to.

24:51>> You don't have to.

24:52>> Okay. I like that, too. I mean, I've

24:55always felt that when a council member

24:59is present at a board meeting then and

25:02participates or says anything

25:04>> Or is even if it's virtual is even just

25:06a fly on the wall.

25:07>> Yeah, that just skews everything. If you

25:09stay away and let them do their business

25:12>> Yes.

25:13>> you'll get better results.

25:14>> Agreed.

25:16>> Only thing is what if they have a

25:18question?

25:19You know, but we have a staff liaison,

25:21right?

25:21>> You could have a staff liaison, yes.

25:23>> I think that would work.

25:24>> Mhm.

25:25>> Thank you, Chris.

25:26>> Yeah, somebody that can answer our

25:27questions. I'm sure there'll be

25:28questions.

25:29>> Mhm.

25:33>> I thought that was

25:40And I would say again if you're limiting

25:42their scope primarily

25:44>> to compensation and allowances.

25:46>> That was really a Cherry Becker

25:48recommendation.

25:49>> Okay.

25:49>> And so that doesn't have

25:51an associated time frame with it.

25:53>> Okay.

25:54>> I've also what I would call a citizen

25:56recommendation as well. I think that's

25:58the thing I've heard almost the most

25:59about at this point is

26:01>> Yeah, in fact you all are really adding

26:03the compensation [clears throat]

26:05You're taking the broader look at it.

26:06The recommendations from the various

26:08folks were a little more narrow, so you

26:10broadened it out to take a more holistic

26:11look.

26:12>> Okay.

26:13>> Yeah.

26:24All right.

26:34So, we ready to dig into the charge?

26:38>> Sure.

26:46>> One thing that pops in my head is I

26:49think I mentioned it before is

26:52compensation

26:54total compensation should be fair

26:56and be in line with other municipalities

27:00larger and smaller than us.

27:02>> Mhm.

27:03>> Um

27:05and that would be something I would hope

27:08that they would work for.

27:10Um and the reasoning behind it is I

27:12don't want

27:15someone not to run for office because

27:17they can't afford to.

27:18>> Mhm.

27:20>> It's perfect. It's perfect example.

27:22>> Mhm.

27:23Mhm.

27:24I know I've had this question before.

27:26I think this is a glimpse into how my

27:28brain works is starting with the end in

27:30mind before we cracked it. So, also a

27:33question for staff.

27:35What do we envision

27:38the actual

27:39charge document to look like? Are we

27:43going to be tasked with creating that?

27:46Would that fall to staff?

27:50How detailed does that need to be? So,

27:53uh getting back to what is the

27:56deliverable and that helps me think

27:58about what exactly we need to craft.

28:01>> do you have?

28:02>> EAB and P&Z.

28:04>> You have the agenda packet at the

28:05beginning of Does EAB do that with an

28:07agenda packet? Here's what we're going

28:09to discuss and here's the things

28:12in order.

28:13>> Yeah, basically just a pretty standard

28:15agenda.

28:17I don't know that I would call them

28:18that.

28:19>> Okay. So, so what I would expect is for

28:22it to be similar to how my board

28:25liaisons approach it where here's the

28:28upcoming meeting, here's the agenda

28:29packet, here's any resources you need to

28:31consider the piece of public art we're

28:32going to review or

28:34the

28:35the speaker that's coming to talk to the

28:37senior advisory board and here's the

28:38additional resources.

28:39>> Okay.

28:40>> And if there were

28:42um

28:43like specific like here's what you might

28:45be voting on here or here's what you

28:47might be reviewing, it would be

28:49part of that agenda.

28:50>> So, my my brain tells me that there

28:53would be an initial agenda that would

28:54have something similar to an agenda

28:56packet.

28:56>> Okay.

28:57>> That would include some resources

28:58they're going to need. Like here's, you

29:00know, the current pay scale and, you

29:01know, whatever it is that is decided,

29:04cuz that's where I'm actually at the

29:06beginning of like, what do they need to

29:08do this? They need a lot of stuff we

29:10have in this folder. Here's the council

29:12research. Here's um a comp like we used

29:15to get when we did reviews, we'd get a

29:18compensation comp, you know, here's how

29:19it is comparable to other cities and

29:22whatever. So, just sort of that

29:24foundational information, and then

29:26literally two paragraphs that say,

29:27here's what council has asked you to do,

29:30um so that it's extremely

29:32clear what we are asking them to do and

29:35and I think it's important we include in

29:37there what we're not asking of them or

29:38what what

29:40they can choose to do or not do. Like

29:43that's in my head. Like in that I think

29:45it get us what we're looking for.

29:47>> Yeah.

29:47>> And just a suggestion, cuz I'm looking

29:49at

29:51this piece here from a long time ago,

29:52but it has the five or six different

29:55recommendations from Jerry Becker at WAM

29:57Office of State Auditor.

29:59And so, I was envisioning something like

30:01this where you're saying the task force

30:04will will consider or will recommend a

30:07comprehensive policy addressing like a

30:09sentence or two where you all sort of

30:11similar to how their recommendations to

30:14us from Jerry Becker and the others

30:16were.

30:17Is you know, you're kind of giving the

30:19task force

30:21and like you said, it could just really

30:22be the a sentence or two for what

30:25they're supposed to do. And then

30:27whatever backing materials you want to

30:28give them, and then I would expect them

30:30to go out and find their own and

30:31resources stuff.

30:33>> Yes, I could see giving them just cuz we

30:35have it so readily accessible, Charlotte

30:37and Raleigh's

30:40reports that they created. Um cuz I

30:43think that's

30:45the a template of sorts. I mean, again,

30:47the scope of those two committees was

30:49much broader than ours will be um

30:53cuz they were looking at that.

30:54Uh

30:55term lengths and election cycles and you

30:59know, their council's much more broadly.

31:01Um

31:01but I think all of that

31:04salary comparison data

31:07is is a template that we've had in mind.

31:10>> Yeah, and

31:13he Well, here's why I think they need

31:15foundational information. Whatever

31:17foundational information we would

31:19say is a trusted source that we would be

31:21basing a decision off of, I'd like them

31:23to be looking at the same thing. I

31:25suspect I could go to 1AI and you can go

31:27to another and we can ask at the same

31:29stuff and it'll give us not the same

31:31information.

31:32>> Mhm.

31:33>> Um

31:34so what I don't want is for us working

31:36on separate sets of info, but also

31:40I do believe we should leave it as

31:44non-directional as possible and I

31:47completely understand and agree with

31:49what you said about kind of a floor for

31:52the salary so that it's not

31:55I think most people understand that if

31:57you don't pay us anything, you're only

31:59going to get wealthy and/or retired

32:01people or people that own their own firm

32:04serving. I do believe people understand

32:06that, but I don't want to be too

32:08terribly prescriptive.

32:09>> Yeah.

32:12>> if a group of nine citizens

32:14residents say we're not worth a penny,

32:19we need to hear that for whatever

32:21reason. I don't believe that's the case.

32:23I think

32:24people value what we do.

32:27Um I think even those that are angry at

32:30say me personally today still probably

32:32don't think I should do this without

32:33compensation.

32:36I would prefer not to give them too many

32:39guardrails because that feels a little

32:41bit too much like trying to steer the

32:43ship. They don't want people to point us

32:45and go, "Yeah, but you said they had to

32:47do this thing." So,

32:49you know what I mean? It just feels more

32:51um

32:52neutral.

32:53>> Yeah.

32:53>> To to not give them too many

32:55instructions.

32:57>> back to my question of

32:59are we producing this document or

33:03do you think you should produce this

33:06document to make sure it it aligns with

33:11town practices for our advisory board?

33:16>> I'll leave that to Jenny. I'll also just

33:17say what I was

33:19picturing again was like a two-sentence

33:21charge and then you could tell us what

33:23information you wanted to share with

33:25them and then that would just be easy to

33:27put the packet together. But if you all

33:28came up with that

33:29>> Okay. With a two-sentence charge.

33:31>> that paragraph, two-sentence charge and

33:34then said and I want them to have the

33:35Raleigh study and the Charlotte study

33:37and the whatever the list of things is.

33:40>> And then just

33:41>> Send the clerk the packet.

33:43>> go to work. I mean

33:45for me, this isn't necessarily um

33:49you know, I'm I'm going to brainstorm

33:50here. Not necessarily the final language

33:53we'll craft in the charge, but I mean

33:54what I am personally hoping that we will

33:57get from the residents is

33:59uh

34:01an understanding of what fair

34:04compensation looks like by doing all of

34:07the comparative research. I would really

34:09love to know

34:11different ways of arriving at that

34:14compensation, whether it is a single

34:17salary

34:19and it's a salary plus the allowances

34:22um

34:22and I would really like to answer the

34:24question of the pros and cons of either.

34:28>> Mhm.

34:29>> You know, the pros and cons of

34:31a single salary compensation versus the

34:36way we and it seems all of our peers do

34:38it of

34:40the salary plus the allowances. And

34:43that's the data I'm hoping

34:46to get from this.

34:47>> Now let's go in at that a different way.

34:49I'll just ask questions. Should we get

34:50allowances or not?

34:53>> And what should our total compensation

34:55be?

34:55>> That's it.

34:56>> I I would ask them how much they think

34:58we should get paid.

34:58>> Mhm.

34:59>> And how that pay should be delivered.

35:01>> Mhm.

35:02>> Um

35:03and specifically

35:05do you think, you know, it's we should

35:08have allowances? And if so, how much

35:10should those allowances be? What is a

35:12reasonable amount? And And then the

35:14final part of the charge, I would ask

35:16that they determine um if, when, and how

35:18our pay should be increased.

35:20>> [clears throat and cough]

35:21>> The future.

35:22>> I would like to say three things I

35:23wanted to

35:24>> Like is it 3% a year? Is it Cola? Is it

35:27like what what does that look like? Or

35:28do you think it should be

35:29>> I'm saying How do you maintain

35:31compensation over time?

35:33>> Yes.

35:34>> Um I'm also curious and Lisa, I don't

35:37know if you have the answer to this off

35:38the top of your head. I mean, the

35:40statute to me reads very broad.

35:44It says, you know, salary plus

35:48reimbursements or fixed allowances um

35:50and I can't recall now precisely what

35:52the language is, but fixed allowances

35:54for expenses. Um it seems

35:58almost all municipalities have defined

36:00those expenses as some version of

36:01technology and some version of car.

36:06But I haven't seen that specified

36:08anywhere. So is that basically just

36:09convention that we've all more or less

36:11looked at one another and said these are

36:13the categories? Cuz I haven't seen

36:14anybody with any other categories. So I

36:18mean

36:19you could be mistaken to think that it

36:21was prescribed by statute because it

36:23seems to be so standardized.

36:25>> Well, there was it some of them tech is

36:27broken down, you know, cell is separate.

36:30I saw some that had internet stipends. I

36:34saw some that had executive allowances.

36:37Um just a handful

36:39where it was sort of a

36:40And I think those didn't have other

36:42allowances. They just sort of had a

36:44here's a here's a little bit of money.

36:45We know this cost you money to be in

36:47this role, you know, wrapping all the

36:48allowances into

36:49>> Yeah. Yeah.

36:51>> kind of for

36:52I think probably for simplification.

36:54>> Yeah. Cuz that would be the big question

36:57for allowances. It'll be

37:00if to have them or not. And if you have

37:03them

37:04what are the categories? And if you have

37:06the categories how much?

37:08>> Yeah, and the statute says if you do the

37:11fixed allowance, a fixed allowance for

37:13travel and other personal expenses of

37:16office.

37:17>> Okay.

37:18>> So that's that's all of kind of guidance

37:21you get from the statute.

37:22>> Okay.

37:25>> Excuse me.

37:27Do we want them to

37:31write the policy or a draft the policy

37:34or just make recommendations so we can

37:36draft the policy from?

37:38I'm assuming we're looking for the sort

37:40of bulleted recommendations.

37:43>> That's what I'm looking for.

37:43>> And then we can craft the policy

37:46along with folks that know what they're

37:48doing when it comes to writing policy

37:50and then

37:51>> Mhm.

37:51>> we can have them sign off on it.

37:54Like yep, that's what we intended and

37:55then that's what's signed.

37:57>> Yeah.

37:58Cuz I think really if they give us

38:02a format and figures, right? So how

38:06compensation is structured plus amounts

38:09or ranges or whatever the the

38:11recommendation is, we can then probably

38:13take that and plug it into a policy

38:17framework.

38:19>> I know we rarely do this.

38:21Uh uh we're a full sentences

38:22organization, but I think this would be

38:24clearest done in bullets.

38:26>> Mhm.

38:27>> Council asks that you make

38:29recommendations

38:31on how we should

38:33craft a policy to address the following:

38:35council compensation, sub-bullet.

38:38>> Mhm.

38:39>> Yeah.

38:40Salary. Allowances. Should we have

38:42allowances or not? Um, you know, new

38:44bullet.

38:44>> If so.

38:45>> If so, yeah. Like like that to make it

38:47very very clear. So, it's it's Sometimes

38:50I think you put everything into a

38:51paragraph, it's easy to miss what you're

38:54looking for. And then we can share the

38:56>> Yeah.

38:57>> recommendations that we're trying to

38:58address.

38:59>> And I don't know if it's worthwhile to

39:01point out what the really the

39:02overarching goal is, which is

39:05to arrive at a compensation that feels

39:08fair and transparent for us to be able

39:11to share with the taxpayers of Cary.

39:14>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. Do you want a

39:17Ricola?

39:19>> Yes, I've got one.

39:20>> I've always got I've always got

39:22>> I'm choking on, but

39:23>> 10 or so Ricola's here.

39:24>> [clears throat]

39:29>> Haven't coughed all day.

39:31>> I've got a decent neck.

39:33>> [laughter]

39:34>> You need that

39:35that option.

39:36>> These things are magic. The original.

39:42>> [clears throat]

39:48>> Yeah. And to me, the primary documents

39:51to supply them with, I think, are

39:53Charlotte and Raleigh. I don't know if

39:55we come up with any

39:57thing else. Cuz again, you know,

39:59it's sort of a fine line between

40:01equipping them with helpful references

40:04and

40:05uh narrowing

40:07the research that they, you know, they

40:09should be free to to do themselves.

40:12>> Here's what I have.

40:13>> Actually, that's a really good point.

40:15Cuz then we can incorporate their

40:17research. Maybe we can also say, "And

40:20please show us the resources you used to

40:22make this decision." So then we can be

40:25>> Absolutely.

40:26>> Let them be the

40:27>> I think it's partly the best sources.

40:29Sorry, they're up. Partly by the other

40:30resources. Cuz I felt like they were

40:32well documented. I felt like they had

40:33rich appendices that really showed

40:36showed their math, showed their work on

40:38how they arrived at their decisions. And

40:40so I think that might be helpful not

40:41only for the substance of the report,

40:44but for an example of what a final

40:46product can look like, too.

40:48>> Yeah. You're right. You're right.

40:49>> I'm looking at Councilwoman Mayor Pro

40:51Tem Bush's um

40:53email that she sent to you early on. And

40:55she had a At the very end has a

40:56references page.

40:58Um and so it might be helpful to look at

41:01that. Or if you remember it, um but

41:04she's she gave a Stanford Law Review

41:06article, which the lawyer in me

41:08>> [laughter]

41:08>> loves. Um and then she gave a several

41:11bullets of some of the Raleigh primary

41:13sources. And then she gave a a link to

41:16Charlotte,

41:17Wilmington, and some out of state

41:20uh Spokane, I don't know. Some out of

41:22state things.

41:23Um so if that's if those are the things

41:25that you're referencing, it might

41:28be easy to just include that.

41:30>> Absolutely.

41:31>> That full list is

41:32>> We could also ask this committee if

41:33they'd like some of the previously

41:36pulled resources that we were

41:38considering.

41:38>> That'll be attached to your minutes for

41:40your first one.

41:41So it's already

41:42>> It's already out there.

41:43>> Or yeah, okay. Already.

41:45Perfect.

41:48>> So we're in agreement that we're going

41:49to back off a little bit and let them

41:50>> Yeah, I mean I have a lot of I mean the

41:52the point is for us to back off.

41:54>> [laughter]

41:54>> I know.

41:55>> No, no, no. Just reiterating, right?

41:58Uh and uh no, I have a lot of faith in

42:01our very smart residents to figure this

42:04out.

42:06>> Okay.

42:08The list I've got.

42:10Lori's email, which has references.

42:13In addition,

42:15we want to give them our current

42:17>> think we just just said we don't want to

42:19give that to them, didn't we?

42:22>> I would suggest I would suggest just the

42:23references list if you like

42:25>> I was talking about.

42:25>> Not not the entire Oh, not the write-up.

42:27Okay.

42:28>> Just the list of references.

42:29>> Oh, yes, it is. Agree. Agree.

42:32>> Okay. So, it's Lori's references. I'll

42:34call it that.

42:36And then we want to make sure they have

42:39the salary comparison data.

42:43>> No, I don't think so.

42:44>> No?

42:45>> I think that's what they're gathering. I

42:47cuz I I think we let them decide what

42:49the right reference points are.

42:52>> What what cities and I do think they

42:54need to know exactly what we're

42:56currently paid, so we'll need to give

42:57them that.

42:58>> my next one, current compensation and

43:00allowances.

43:02All the studies, Raleigh, Charlotte,

43:04Wilmington,

43:05um and out of state that was referenced.

43:10Do we want the state statutes and the

43:13town ordinances for them to look at? Are

43:16we only following the state statutes?

43:20>> Did we decide that when we talked about

43:22it? Didn't you say we could pick? You

43:24can pick one or the other.

43:26Um and I

43:28we have been operating under the statute

43:30because only if you use the statute can

43:33you do the fixed allowance.

43:35Um you know, where it's a set amount per

43:37month versus having to track actual

43:39expenses.

43:41Um

43:42>> So,

43:42>> So, I would suggest

43:43>> We're going to eliminate town ordinance.

43:45>> Statute it is. Yeah. So, we can give

43:47them a copy of the statute. They have.

43:50>> Okay.

43:52>> I guess it's a question.

43:55You know,

43:57I I think this is uh uh

44:00example of how my my own thinking had

44:03already gone down one path, which was,

44:06you know, salary plus allowances or just

44:09salary, but hadn't really considered the

44:11alternative, the statutory alternative,

44:14which is reimbursements.

44:17Um

44:18do we want them to explore that route?

44:22Um cuz we've talked about this a little

44:25bit about coming up with solutions here

44:28that are going to create really onerous

44:31uh systems for staff. Um and I can't

44:35envision a reimbursement system would

44:38not require significant staff time

44:42in this arena. Not talking about travel

44:44and per diems and that sort of thing,

44:46but talking about, you know, presumably

44:48in the In this arena, this is mileage,

44:50right? This is like tracking mileage,

44:53which is some kind of form and some kind

44:55of approval process.

44:58Do we want the committee to consider

45:01that? Um

45:03>> Well, if they're taking allowances, I

45:05think they got to consider everything,

45:07but

45:08>> Okay.

45:08>> I'm hoping they don't.

45:10>> I mean, again, whatever they produce, no

45:12matter what they produce, ultimately I

45:14would literally

45:16I do not have time to track every mile.

45:18I mean

45:19Yes.

45:19>> It's just I can't

45:22I can't. I have to give up showering.

45:24Like there's just no time left in my

45:26day.

45:27>> Yeah.

45:27We'd just forego it. Yes.

45:29>> Which would be really unfair, but if

45:31they feel strongly that that's

45:34the best way

45:35>> maybe we we let them ask that question

45:37of if you go that route, what does

45:40implementation cost? So, that's a cost

45:43as well.

45:45>> So, how how would you recommend we

45:47implement? That's actually really good

45:48point.

45:50It's a really good point.

45:51>> But, I suppose it's it's a worthwhile

45:53question for them to leave on the table.

45:55>> Yeah. And

45:59don't we have a process though to

46:00reimburse employees currently?

46:02>> Mhm. Yeah.

46:04>> And in fact the statute language is

46:07if you do the reimbursement route,

46:08reimbursement for actual expenses

46:10incurred in the course of performing

46:11their duties at rates not in excess of

46:13those allowed to other city officers and

46:15employees.

46:17So essentially, as I see it, you're

46:19choosing between

46:20reimbursement for actual expenses

46:22incurred the way employees are

46:24reimbursed

46:25or the fixed allowance.

46:27>> And do we have any thoughts?

46:31>> Yes.

46:34>> So you could direct them to look at

46:36one

46:39say these are the two options.

46:45>> Well, you know, I think we allow them to

46:48explore all of the options afforded by

46:51statute.

46:59>> Or can I try to summarize what I heard?

47:01>> I'm not like

47:03traveling as much as other like there's

47:05just it

47:06affects me less.

47:10But I know that for some people that

47:12would be

47:14>> Yeah.

47:16But again, whatever they produce is

47:18ultimately a recommendation. So to us.

47:22>> Sure.

47:23>> So we can still say

47:26thank you for

47:28bringing that alternative to our

47:29attention, but

47:31in our capacity as policy makers

47:34>> Or we could send it back and say we we

47:37find that this recommendation creates

47:39these problems.

47:40>> Mhm.

47:41>> Can you help us?

47:42>> That's true. That's true.

47:44>> Mhm.

47:46But I think it doesn't hurt to start

47:49with

47:51a broad scope and let them

47:54go down these paths.

47:56>> I agree.

47:57All right. Do you want me to try to

47:59summarize what I think I heard?

48:01So, in the charge or bullet points,

48:05we can then say, you know, we we would

48:07like you to help us determine our

48:09allowances.

48:11I mean, our compensation. Allowances are

48:14not uh reimbursements or not.

48:17Uh

48:18total compensation.

48:20How is the And how is the compensation

48:22increased?

48:23Those are the main ones I heard.

48:28>> Yes.

48:29Yes.

48:30>> [snorts]

48:30>> So, let me ask a technical question. Do

48:34we consider the matter of benefits

48:37settled based on our conversation at the

48:40work session?

48:41>> going to actually bring that up. We have

48:43a policy 117, which covers all that. We

48:46brought it for council, and there was no

48:50motion to change that. So, to me, that

48:52one's resolved.

48:53>> Mhm. Just leave it. Uh we have a written

48:56policy, leave it as written.

48:58>> And now we all know what the policy is

49:00and exactly what the benefits are

49:01because you know, I I'd heard this and

49:03that. I was off Let me be clear. I was

49:06offered an opportunity to enroll at open

49:09enrollment every year. And I just was

49:12like, yeah, yeah, I don't need that. I

49:12have insurance. So, I didn't pay that

49:14much attention. I'm sure I would have

49:16been explained thoroughly thoroughly to

49:18me had I shown interest in goodness.

49:22>> I just want to

49:23>> And you don't have to enroll, why would

49:25>> But you

49:26>> Wait, absolutely.

49:28>> So, I would just don't want to the way I

49:29said it flippantly, I don't want to

49:30imply that nobody gave me any

49:32information. It's just I

49:33>> It was information you didn't need, and

49:35so you triaged that.

49:36>> Correct. Um but now we all know because

49:40it really is sort of a matter of policy,

49:42too. So, from that perspective, I should

49:44have opened my ears and paid attention.

49:47>> That's so great. We don't have to make

49:48that part of the advisory committee's

49:50work. We can also say that we've decided

49:54that our

49:54>> One checkmark.

49:55>> existing policy stays as written.

49:57>> Yes.

50:03>> Look at us accomplishing things.

50:04>> All right.

50:06>> I don't

50:07>> [clears throat]

50:07>> remember that was related to one of the

50:09recommendations. Right. So, it would

50:11nothing will change on the dashboard.

50:12>> Okay.

50:13>> Oh.

50:13>> Yeah, I looked at that earlier and I was

50:15like, [laughter] "Dang it."

50:16>> But, um Catherine Throgmorton on staff

50:19does keep a list of all policies and

50:21procedures

50:23and when they were last kind of reviewed

50:24and looked at, so we can get her to

50:26update and say, "Well, Council 117 was

50:29reviewed

50:31by Council in

50:32>> Thank you, Lisa.

50:34>> Oh, smart.

50:34>> You're giving us Yes, some credit for

50:36our work.

50:39>> Okay.

50:41Done with this?

50:42So,

50:44next is I

50:46>> You want us to write that up?

50:47>> Yeah, I was going to say I send

50:49something to you.

50:50>> Oh, no. I'll have it on the video.

50:51>> Okay.

50:52>> So, it'll be very clear.

50:53>> Okay.

50:54>> We'll just look at that.

50:56>> [laughter]

50:56>> And then we'll take back that back to

50:59Council to say this is the charge we're

51:03>> I feel like we got permission to

51:04>> Okay. You're motioning. Okay.

51:06>> We did cover it.

51:07>> Yeah.

51:08>> I think the the Council full Council

51:10needs to to be presented with the

51:13committee the resident committee's

51:15recommendation next.

51:16>> Yes.

51:16>> Right? That's my next step.

51:17>> I I am all for streamlining, so that

51:20sounds great.

51:22>> Okay.

51:23We have 30 minutes left.

51:25>> Okay.

51:27>> Back to where we were.

51:28>> Let's do it. We'll just keep chipping

51:31away at it.

51:36Okay. So, we left off

51:40somewhere

51:42around what? Per diems?

51:46We were sort of you know, we we'd gotten

51:48a little bogged down in the minutia of

51:51each one and then we, I think, backed up

51:54and said, "Maybe before we do that, we

51:56should take more of a holistic look at

52:00all of them and then we can in totality

52:03think about how to craft all of the

52:05specifics." Um

52:07so, I mean, the first page I think we

52:09got a little more detailed and then we

52:11started to to pick up a little bit of

52:13steam with some of these others. Um

52:17and so we were

52:18talking about this travel category,

52:22you know, where something like local

52:25conferences belongs. What do we even

52:28call that? It's not quite training, it's

52:30not quite travel cuz it's in town. So,

52:33do you call it in-town travel? But so it

52:35it exists there right now. We were

52:37looking at then

52:39what is the definition of, you know, I

52:42think what you would commonly think of

52:44as travel, you know, somewhere overnight

52:47and we were looking at different

52:48definitions of that. Is it simply

52:50defined as a trip overnight? Is it

52:53defined within some kind of mile radius?

52:57I think we had agreement about what the

53:00reimbursable expenses are and that was

53:03pretty standardized across the

53:05comparison municipalities.

53:08Um we did talk to Lisa about the per

53:12diems of

53:13choosing to just mirror whatever staff's

53:16travel per diems are. Um so that might

53:19be easy. And then uh so that that was

53:24the travel category. Do we want

53:27to talk about any I mean, all of that

53:28still has to be refined.

53:30We We did not come to uh craft any final

53:33language there, but do we want to keep

53:35talking about travel or do we want to

53:37look at training and then go back and

53:39look at everything?

53:41>> I had a note in your ear

53:45specifically to start here for training.

53:47>> Okay.

53:48>> So

53:48>> Then let's do it.

53:49>> My note tells me we were we're good.

53:52>> There you go.

53:53>> Until we got to training.

53:54>> Okay.

53:54>> So training.

53:58You know, we've talked a lot about

54:00whether or not you have a list of

54:03pre-approved trainings. Morse will get

54:06very prescriptive. I mean, they list

54:08like the course number of School of

54:10Government courses.

54:11>> Oh, wow.

54:12>> I am more inclined

54:15to say, you know, I mean, two of our

54:17most trusted

54:19regional, you know, statewide and local

54:23organizations are and there's so much

54:25overlap there. League of Municipalities,

54:28School of Government. I mean,

54:30uh so I left it really broad that

54:32perhaps

54:33anything offered by either of those

54:34entities could essentially be

54:37pre-approved. This, of course, though,

54:39still that doesn't exempt it from

54:42counting towards

54:44whatever dollar amount allocation you

54:46decide per council member. So it's not

54:49to suggest that it's exempt from

54:50counting, just that it's pre-approved.

54:53But whatever expense uh

54:56the of any of those courses would still

54:58count towards your total and it would

55:00still go through that reporting

55:02mechanism that we've developed with

55:03consent agendas, but that it wouldn't I

55:06mean, depending on when we get back to

55:09the actual dollar amounts we were

55:10talking on the first page, I mean, if we

55:12do have uh

55:14a $750

55:16threshold, I can't imagine anything from

55:19either of these two entities coming in

55:21above that anyway. So I think in more

55:23ways than one, it could probably be in a

55:26category of not requiring

55:29a council approval vote. Um

55:33and then, you know,

55:36if we elect to designate these

55:38pre-approved trainings or not, there

55:41still leaves the question of well, what

55:44is an appropriate training?

55:46Um, and so again, in our our chart here,

55:49we see how some of the other

55:51municipalities define it. Um,

55:54you know, Morrisville

55:56used the language of serving a public

55:58purpose and they explicitly

56:01uh excluded tuition and degree expenses.

56:05>> And these are policies only for their

56:07councils, not not inclusive of staff.

56:10>> These are yes, council policies. Um,

56:16>> Excuse me.

56:17>> So, I I you know, I mean

56:20the language I used here, you know, was

56:22subject to the same approval process

56:24that we've identified for some of these

56:27other categories.

56:29Um,

56:32Mhm.

56:35I mean, all of these things

56:37there's so much overlap. There's so much

56:40overlap between

56:42a conference, a training,

56:45local travel,

56:47when is it

56:48uh

56:50you know, when it is when is it out of

56:52town travel? You know, I mean,

56:55do we need to have so many

56:57distinctions of categories?

57:00Um,

57:00you know, we might be

57:02>> or

57:03>> parsing it too much.

57:04>> Flip it the other way and make the

57:06council member write a justification for

57:08going.

57:09Some businesses do that

57:11for all courses and travel,

57:14you know,

57:15>> But then who approves it? We don't have

57:16a boss to approve it for us.

57:18>> it would be on

57:20>> All seven.

57:21>> Consent or whatever for all seven and

57:23the world to see.

57:27So, if you're not comfortable with your

57:28justification going, then probably

57:30shouldn't be going.

57:32>> I'll be honest, when I was flipping

57:33through this before

57:35the Durham definition of

57:38appropriate training

57:40Excuse me, seemed

57:43and I know we're talking about the

57:44travel to and from really right now, but

57:46also that to me seems to

57:48fit the spirit of what should be an

57:49allowable

57:51training expense as well. Probably

57:53better than anything else I saw.

57:56Yeah.

57:57And I mean, depending on the content of

57:59a conference

58:00you know, a conference is a training of

58:02sorts, right? I mean, you're there to

58:04learn. So I mean, even like the

58:05definition between conference, seminar,

58:09workshop, training whatever they call

58:11them.

58:12>> Exactly.

58:13>> Yeah.

58:13Yeah.

58:14Um but it, you know, I don't know about

58:16subscriptions and memberships

58:18necessarily.

58:19Um

58:21they are, you know, it's one of those

58:23things that's going to get a little

58:24murky.

58:25I don't know that we can avoid any

58:27murkiness. For example, my North

58:28Carolina Coalition on Aging

58:31I personally would be a member

58:33regardless, but it certainly does

58:35overlap very significantly with my work

58:37with the town.

58:38I pay my own membership. I'm a private

58:42member.

58:43There are quite a few things I may

58:45Carissa Johnson or I call it my

58:48johnson.carissa@gmail.

58:52Have at it.

58:53Um but that's there's those memberships

58:55and then there's the

58:56[email protected].

58:59They're different memberships to me.

59:01Um and you know, so those I pay myself

59:04and these,

59:06you know, I would consider letting the

59:07town pay for, but

59:09you know, most of my stuff is personal.

59:11I would like it to continue past if I

59:13got unelected tomorrow, you know, those

59:15are are things that I'm a member of. My

59:18Sierra Club membership

59:20is like personal membership, not a town

59:23thing, but

59:25if I put a paragraph into a,

59:27you know,

59:29it just gets murky and a little weird.

59:32>> Yeah.

59:32>> For those memberships, you have

59:33different needs, too. It's the mayor,

59:35right? There's associations and all.

59:37>> Just we talked about this a little bit

59:39last week. You know, Jenny helped us out

59:41with some language about organizational

59:44memberships versus personal memberships.

59:47Because as I understood it, it was

59:51the memberships that really more apply

59:54to the role. And And right now, that

59:58role is filled by a Mr. Harold

1:00:00Weinbrecht, but it's really the mayor of

1:00:02Perry, whomever that may be, belongs to

1:00:05this membership. And I

1:00:08don't know

1:00:10that

1:00:11some of those other scenarios, that's

1:00:12not necessarily true.

1:00:14>> Right.

1:00:15>> Right.

1:00:15>> Yeah. It's under We have a um

1:00:19a lot of memberships. So,

1:00:21think about CAMPO, we pay out there, try

1:00:24Central Pines South, pay out there, the

1:00:26Mayors Association, the Mayors

1:00:29Association has Central Pines. So, like

1:00:31um

1:00:32>> [clears throat]

1:00:32>> we do have a place in our agenda where

1:00:34those overall, no matter the person,

1:00:36only the role would apply to that

1:00:39membership.

1:00:41>> And we don't haven't paid any individual

1:00:44memberships like that.

1:00:46>> And so that we haven't, just as a matter

1:00:49of practice, done that so far.

1:00:53I mean

1:00:54>> Not that I'm aware of.

1:00:55>> Yes. So, I mean, I'm

1:00:56disinclined to then introduce that.

1:00:59>> Right. Right.

1:01:00>> So, I mean, I I think maybe

1:01:02subscriptions and memberships I've got

1:01:04my little

1:01:05pen cap on.

1:01:06>> I think they have subscriptions. I don't

1:01:07know what you would subscribe me to that

1:01:09would be necessary in the course of my

1:01:12duties.

1:01:12>> been part of just our historical way of

1:01:15operating, it doesn't seem like one,

1:01:18then there's probably significant

1:01:20demand, and then why get lost in the

1:01:22weeds of figuring out what this might

1:01:23apply to if it hasn't historically

1:01:26applied?

1:01:28>> And if council did want us to subscribe

1:01:30them to something, we would offer it to

1:01:32everybody. So, that would be

1:01:34>> Ah, okay.

1:01:35>> You know, it would be if one person

1:01:36asked us to subscribe them to something,

1:01:38we wouldn't offer that to everybody if

1:01:40they thought it would help them in their

1:01:41role.

1:01:43And you know, now

1:01:45and we're we're bringing stuff to

1:01:47council about when we're using funding

1:01:49that's something we could put on the

1:01:50work session under the meeting schedule.

1:01:52Like somebody's asked us to subscribe,

1:01:54want to know who else was interested.

1:01:56>> Okay.

1:01:56>> Yeah.

1:01:56>> That's helpful. Thank you.

1:01:57>> Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:58And that could arise then through our

1:02:00normal mechanisms of somebody bringing

1:02:02something in a 3x4 and then it gets put

1:02:04on an agenda somewhere to talk about

1:02:05with everyone.

1:02:06>> Okay.

1:02:08Um okay, well in the spirit of just

1:02:10continuing to get sort of the overview

1:02:12of all of these different categories,

1:02:15let's move on to local rules. I do find

1:02:18this to for me be one of the trickiest

1:02:21categories.

1:02:23Um

1:02:24So, you know, again

1:02:27I divided it this is somewhat artificial

1:02:29and arbitrary in how we categorize these

1:02:33different kinds of expenses, but this

1:02:35was my stab at it. A seat at a

1:02:37pre-purchase table. We talked about that

1:02:39a little bit about when the town is a

1:02:42sponsor of an event and there are 10

1:02:45seats at a table. Claiming those seats.

1:02:48Um when that isn't the case and it would

1:02:51require

1:02:53individual tickets to be purchased for

1:02:55council members.

1:02:57Um we've talked with legal a little bit

1:03:00about um

1:03:02when that event might be hosted by one

1:03:05of our

1:03:07contracted nonprofits and what that

1:03:09means and how then that's defined as in

1:03:13our um

1:03:14that that relationship affects our

1:03:16notion of what constitutes a gift. Um

1:03:20and then, you know, I mean, an

1:03:22overarching question for almost every

1:03:24category here is is relevance. When is

1:03:27an event considered relevant to council

1:03:29work and when is it personal?

1:03:31Um

1:03:34and then, you know, I I threw in this

1:03:36last category, we might scrap it all

1:03:37together, but meals that are not a

1:03:40formal event. Um and, you know, I mean,

1:03:43to be frank,

1:03:45this is a consideration I think we have

1:03:48because [clears throat] of uh the

1:03:49results of the reports that we've

1:03:52received that I don't know that a lot of

1:03:55councils have grappled with, but

1:03:58meals with staff, meals with

1:04:00constituents, you know, these are not

1:04:01formal events, these are not, you know,

1:04:03tables at a a luncheon, but just the

1:04:08we're doing a working lunch with a bunch

1:04:09of staff.

1:04:11Do we specify that that is a personal

1:04:14expense? Do we want that captured in

1:04:16policy somewhere?

1:04:19>> Mhm.

1:04:22>> So, I mean, I I'm curious if these

1:04:24categories and distinctions even

1:04:27I mean, especially for you, Mayor, who

1:04:30has done your fair share of these

1:04:32community events in this role,

1:04:35if these categories even sort of comport

1:04:38with your notion of

1:04:40how events in the community operate and

1:04:42intersect with your

1:04:45your council role.

1:04:46>> Categories are fine, but there's

1:04:50there's indirect benefit and direct

1:04:52benefit

1:04:53for attending a a lot of these events,

1:04:56such as the nonprofit

1:04:58you mentioned.

1:05:01They are a community partner.

1:05:03And to show support and be a part of

1:05:08their event,

1:05:10I think is

1:05:12part of our job.

1:05:14Um like going to a chamber event is part

1:05:16of our job. Um because it's the business

1:05:20leaders there that work in our community

1:05:23that generate tax base and so on and so

1:05:25on.

1:05:26And then the nonprofits [clears throat]

1:05:28um such as uh Neighbor Up. Uh they're

1:05:31handling a lot of the issues with

1:05:34affordable housing and everything.

1:05:37All of them have benefit to our

1:05:39community. And uh all of that should be

1:05:41taken in consideration. I would hate for

1:05:44it to be

1:05:46I sit down at the table. Sorry, I can't

1:05:48eat.

1:05:49>> Yeah.

1:05:49>> Um but I'm here to support you.

1:05:51>> Yeah.

1:05:52>> That's offensive.

1:05:53>> Yeah.

1:05:54>> To our community partners.

1:05:56Um and that I don't think that is what

1:05:59public wants.

1:06:00>> No.

1:06:00>> I think the public wants to know, what

1:06:02are you spending our money on and why?

1:06:05>> Mhm.

1:06:06>> And that's what you know, and to me a

1:06:09simple justification even if it's a

1:06:10sentence.

1:06:12I don't have any problem justifying

1:06:14anything I do. If somebody wants to know

1:06:15why I'm doing something, I'd be glad to

1:06:17tell.

1:06:17>> Yeah.

1:06:18>> I'm not hiding anything. Um but other

1:06:21council members that don't have a lot of

1:06:22experience, I don't know if you feel

1:06:24comfortable with that.

1:06:25>> No, I you know,

1:06:27>> [clears throat]

1:06:27>> I I've thought a lot about this. Um

1:06:33you know, it

1:06:35I I thought about it in two ways. One is

1:06:38yes, we are individual human beings who

1:06:40are going there and perhaps eating the

1:06:43food that is offered there. But we're

1:06:45not there as people for personal

1:06:48benefit. We're really there representing

1:06:50the role. You know, I I don't think that

1:06:52my community partners in most cases go

1:06:55to lovely care that Britney Richards is

1:06:57there. They want council member from

1:06:59district A to be there to signify that

1:07:03the town, the council, the community is

1:07:07represented there.

1:07:09Um and so I think having our roles

1:07:13represented in these community spaces is

1:07:15important, even if that role means we as

1:07:18people or people that are there and may

1:07:20also eat a meal while we're there. Um

1:07:23and also and I I want to phrase this

1:07:24delicately because I value all of our

1:07:29vast array of community and cultural

1:07:32organizations. And if I could clone

1:07:34myself as even as a private resident, I

1:07:37would want to go to everything, but I

1:07:39cannot and we all have competing demands

1:07:42for our time. And so the delicate part I

1:07:44want to say, but I think is part of this

1:07:45conversation is if not for

1:07:49that role, that representing council, I

1:07:53would not attend most of these events.

1:07:56Not because they're not lovely and not

1:07:57because they're not valuable, but

1:07:59because in my private time, I probably

1:08:02would not prioritize

1:08:05that time and that expense to be there.

1:08:08But because I am on council, it is now

1:08:10important, but you know, thinking

1:08:13>> exactly right. That's exactly how I

1:08:15feel.

1:08:15>> go to one a year, not four. Right? I

1:08:19wouldn't go to four in one week.

1:08:20>> Exactly. And [laughter] so I don't think

1:08:24it makes sense to ask us

1:08:28to have to pay our own way to all of

1:08:31these events when we are there very much

1:08:35in the execution of our duties. We are

1:08:38going because we're on council, even if

1:08:40there's some small measure of if you

1:08:42want to describe

1:08:44perhaps eating some food at an event as

1:08:46a private benefit, then okay, then maybe

1:08:48there is some small private benefit, but

1:08:50it is very much

1:08:53in the execution of our official duties.

1:08:55Bless you.

1:08:57In the execution of our official duties

1:08:58for a public purpose.

1:09:00>> [snorts]

1:09:01>> Hey, Jenny, um the when somebody invites

1:09:04us to an event and you put that

1:09:08really you you send us like, "Hey,

1:09:09they've requested your presence and

1:09:11here's [clears throat] the purpose of

1:09:12the event and all that." Does the cost

1:09:14of the event

1:09:16um

1:09:17is that included in the thing that they

1:09:19they fill out when they request a

1:09:21council member attend something?

1:09:23>> Um it's not. We usually do go look for

1:09:26it or see

1:09:28um

1:09:30I

1:09:31Most of the time, you know, the events

1:09:32that do cost something we're familiar

1:09:34with, they're usually the routine events

1:09:35and then we go and find that. We try to

1:09:37put that in that email and say, "Do you

1:09:39want us to use town funds or do you want

1:09:40us to use

1:09:42um

1:09:44your personal you know, or do you want

1:09:45to pay for it personally?" We try to put

1:09:47that in the calendar entry.

1:09:48>> Mhm.

1:09:49>> Um but we are happy to add that, you

1:09:51know, as a form to say is there any cost

1:09:53um associated

1:09:53>> associated with this event, yeah.

1:09:55>> associated with this event. Mhm.

1:09:59>> But cuz I what I also don't want to do

1:10:01is have organizations

1:10:04lean into just giving us free food cuz

1:10:06we can't have that either.

1:10:07>> Yeah.

1:10:09>> Whether they're nonprofit or not, it's

1:10:11still inappropriate.

1:10:12>> Mhm.

1:10:13>> Um

1:10:16and I agree with with what you said.

1:10:18You're that's exactly right.

1:10:21It is

1:10:24a weird line of what is within the scope

1:10:27of our duties because

1:10:29to say this delicately,

1:10:31we get invited to a lot of stuff. Yes.

1:10:36Some of it only has

1:10:39the only

1:10:42corroborating thing between me, Carissa

1:10:46Johnson, and this organization that's

1:10:48invited me to their event is just that I

1:10:51hold public office. Yes. But it has

1:10:53absolutely nothing to do with the price

1:10:54of potatoes.

1:10:56Um but they would really like me to come

1:10:58to the

1:10:59>> Mhm.

1:11:00kickoff event to their

1:11:02screen printing business. Like, whatever

1:11:04it is.

1:11:05>> Or so many cultural celebrations. And we

1:11:07love about it but we have

1:11:10a lot of cultural celebrations.

1:11:12>> Yeah, but some of them really that it's

1:11:13the the

1:11:16town or public the greater public good

1:11:18business is I showed up.

1:11:20>> Yes.

1:11:21>> That's the value. It's not a um

1:11:23I'm not going to go there and learn

1:11:25about

1:11:27public policy.

1:11:28>> No.

1:11:28>> I'm going to go and meet constituents

1:11:31and show my support and do my best to

1:11:35>> And I think that's meaningful but it

1:11:36shouldn't be. Again, I don't think it's

1:11:38meaningful that

1:11:40I show up. I think it's meaningful to

1:11:41them that a member of council shows up

1:11:44and that is part of this work.

1:11:47>> Mhm.

1:11:47>> Cuz it's very easy for me on a Saturday

1:11:50afternoon to say, "Does anybody care

1:11:52that I'm there?"

1:11:53>> Right.

1:11:54>> Me. Right. I'm sitting in an audience.

1:11:56Um, cuz we get invited to events like

1:11:58that as well, right? Where maybe even

1:12:00your interface with constituents is

1:12:02fairly limited because you're in a

1:12:04darkened auditorium watching a

1:12:06performance. And so it's easy to ask,

1:12:09"Would anybody miss me?" I don't know. I

1:12:11don't think they're going to miss me.

1:12:13But having a member of council there

1:12:15confers for their organization, whether

1:12:18it's prominence or legitimacy or

1:12:20connection

1:12:21>> or respect

1:12:22>> or respect, right? I So, there it

1:12:25there's something essential and

1:12:27important about council participating in

1:12:30these events. Even when you're

1:12:32absolutely right, there's no necessarily

1:12:35tangible exchange. It's not a learning

1:12:36opportunity. But that is

1:12:39it's this is a weird gig. This is not

1:12:41This is not a you know, in so many ways,

1:12:43you know, it's very tempting to want to

1:12:45draw analogies to the private sector.

1:12:48You know, this is how the world of work

1:12:50works. This is not a job like any other

1:12:53sector. Um

1:12:55>> Very different.

1:12:57>> There So, there is something intangible

1:12:59about your attendance at the meal, the

1:13:01performance.

1:13:02>> Intangible. 90% of my constituent

1:13:04interactions are at events.

1:13:05>> Mhm.

1:13:07>> The huge majority. And it's where people

1:13:09get to deliver complaints in person.

1:13:12It's important I hear them in my ears

1:13:14and not always be a email. So, there's

1:13:17there is a lot of value just in that

1:13:20sort of multilateral communication

1:13:24conduit that events tend to be.

1:13:27So, I you know, between events and and

1:13:30registration for events,

1:13:32um as long as they're public to me they

1:13:34just need to be listed somewhere.

1:13:36So-and-so attended this thing.

1:13:38You know.

1:13:38>> Yeah. And I I mean

1:13:39>> A monthly calendar. I don't care what it

1:13:41is. Just, you know,

1:13:43>> We

1:13:43We do list out your We got it glance.

1:13:46So, your schedule at glance is on the

1:13:47website.

1:13:48>> See?

1:13:49That's That's appropriate.

1:13:51>> it.

1:13:52And it shows where you're going. And it

1:13:54talks about like it being an official

1:13:55role as a council member. And so,

1:13:59somebody could go there and

1:14:01we could go back and see you know,

1:14:02things as well. But, we just put one

1:14:04week out there and we update that on

1:14:06Wednesdays.

1:14:07>> Well, in in the

1:14:09>> I've never seen it. I'll have to go look

1:14:11at it.

1:14:12>> Yeah.

1:14:13I have to share it with you.

1:14:15>> As an extension to what you were saying,

1:14:17I do

1:14:19I have an opinion when it comes to meals

1:14:21in general, whether it's us or staff.

1:14:23I think one of the

1:14:25one of the things that the general

1:14:26public doesn't appreciate is the hours.

1:14:29Uh we work through meals frequently. I

1:14:32do not think it's inappropriate for me

1:14:34to have lunch on the town dime if I'm

1:14:36working through lunch, if I'm working

1:14:37through dinner.

1:14:38Um I'm not eating

1:14:40tomahawk steaks or anything like that.

1:14:42It's you know, it's it's but I'm I'm I'm

1:14:44also not eating McDonald's. You know, a

1:14:47moderately priced meal whether it be me

1:14:50or staff. Our staff also works through a

1:14:53lot of meals. Sometimes more than one a

1:14:56day. I think we've swung too far in the

1:14:59direction of no food for anybody. Um and

1:15:02I think just with

1:15:05what we need is not a policy change when

1:15:07it comes to food. We need a behavior

1:15:09change that is modeled by leadership.

1:15:13And so we we've I think we swung way too

1:15:15far over here and then we swung way too

1:15:17far over here. And that reasonable happy

1:15:19medium, I think, is very achievable.

1:15:22Um everybody, I think

1:15:26And I've I've heard you express this

1:15:28before really well.

1:15:30Harold, there there is

1:15:34the vast majority of the transactions

1:15:36were appropriate. There were a handful

1:15:39that were extremely inappropriate. Um

1:15:42that's the behavior we need to manage.

1:15:45The behavior.

1:15:47But also the attitude.

1:15:50We forget about the attitude that that's

1:15:51okay. When you've got some folks

1:15:53thinking that's okay, you've got a

1:15:55pocket of problems. Um I think we we

1:15:58manage that attitude. Um and then I

1:16:02think reasonableness will

1:16:04will prevail. I just I I don't think

1:16:07taking any um

1:16:10The word I want to use is agency. So if

1:16:13if

1:16:14staff is

1:16:17plowing

1:16:18and they want to order pizza

1:16:20order pizza.

1:16:21You know, if there's a weather event, if

1:16:23there's a

1:16:25just the busiest day ever and

1:16:26everybody's here for 12 hours

1:16:29order Panera. I don't care. Like that I

1:16:31don't I don't think that's inappropriate

1:16:33at all. And that's one of the challenges

1:16:35I find that kind of what I talk to

1:16:37people. They're not saying we're mad

1:16:40that staff or council's being fed.

1:16:43They're mad that there's extravagance,

1:16:46and that word is inappropriate just in

1:16:47the context of um really high-priced

1:16:51meals, you know, and and and so I think

1:16:53that's all the attitude and the behavior

1:16:56is what we we need to manage for those

1:16:58sort of top end, but I I think the

1:17:00remainder of it is discretion, I think

1:17:03is

1:17:04there's we should allow for some

1:17:05discretion.

1:17:06>> And the there is a staff work group

1:17:09working on meals for staff. You know,

1:17:12that's part of different recommendations

1:17:14that you all are looking at. So, there

1:17:15is a staff group that's looking at

1:17:16updating the policies on that.

1:17:18>> and that's good. And so, they'll have

1:17:20cuz there is policies already, but they

1:17:22weren't universally followed, right? So,

1:17:25that's what

1:17:26>> been updated in a long time.

1:17:27>> In a while, yeah.

1:17:28>> Yeah. So, let me ask this.

1:17:31Who makes decisions for meals with staff

1:17:35and council? Does council want a part in

1:17:38that?

1:17:41The one at restaurant keeps getting

1:17:44ticked.

1:17:45When I was president of the mayors

1:17:47association,

1:17:48I worked with Ray's and got the meals

1:17:50down to $30 a plate.

1:17:52>> Mhm.

1:17:52>> I think that means per deal.

1:17:55That can be done. Do we want to get

1:17:57involved in that?

1:17:59Is that I mean, that's really operations

1:18:03to me.

1:18:03>> Yes.

1:18:04>> And we shouldn't do that. And if we have

1:18:06a staff committee working on that, do we

1:18:08need to be involved in that even though

1:18:10council is involved in that? However, it

1:18:13looks like we're ignoring

1:18:15what people complain about.

1:18:16>> Right.

1:18:17>> So.

1:18:18>> And that Ray's meal, that was do I

1:18:20remember correctly that one was $63 a

1:18:22person or something like that?

1:18:25>> No, I have no idea.

1:18:26>> Yeah.

1:18:27I I can't remember specifically.

1:18:29>> nothing. I just attended. And as I've

1:18:32said before, I weigh 148 lb. You can

1:18:35take a meal away from me. I don't care.

1:18:37>> [laughter]

1:18:37>> It I mean, it just doesn't matter.

1:18:39>> Are you a pregnant again?

1:18:42>> It's not about the food.

1:18:43>> [laughter]

1:18:44>> Well, yeah. And so, I would say

1:18:48that

1:18:49there needs to be an obvious ceiling. Um

1:18:52but, saying, you know, you need to no

1:18:55lunch can be more than $9 is

1:18:59Do you know what I mean?

1:18:59>> Yeah. Well, I mean, I will also go on

1:19:02record with very much agreeing with you.

1:19:04I mean, anybody who's walked watched one

1:19:06of our work sessions, I'm sure has seen

1:19:08that dinner is provided on those

1:19:10evenings, a modest dinner of pizza or

1:19:12some subs.

1:19:13Um

1:19:15those evenings can go so late. I am

1:19:18continually astounded by the commitment

1:19:20of our staff and the hours that they put

1:19:23in. I am not interested in taking pizza

1:19:25and subs from folks who have worked a

1:19:27full day and might be with us until

1:19:29midnight.

1:19:30>> Mhm.

1:19:31Mhm.

1:19:33Yeah.

1:19:34And

1:19:35just to get back to exactly what

1:19:38>> [laughter]

1:19:38>> the State Auditor's office asked, that

1:19:40you all are looking at.

1:19:41Meal expenses during council travel was

1:19:44really what that one was focused on.

1:19:46I mean, I think it's great, like I said

1:19:48before. You you need to kind of look at

1:19:50it all together.

1:19:51Um but, the specific recommendation here

1:19:53was um

1:19:55a policy related to meal expenses during

1:19:57travel.

1:19:58And

1:19:59>> Okay.

1:19:59>> Staff has a policy on that.

1:20:00>> And that, yes.

1:20:01>> Per diems will be the easiest.

1:20:03>> Yeah, I was going to say, we should

1:20:04follow staff.

1:20:04>> I was just going to say, I thought we'd

1:20:06already agreed to just follow the staff

1:20:08per diems.

1:20:09>> And as the auditor's report points out,

1:20:12you know,

1:20:13a lot of the examples are when per diems

1:20:16don't apply because they were local.

1:20:19And then, but still used the the travel

1:20:22per diem as a benchmark. Well, had the

1:20:24per diem had it applied, this is how

1:20:26much you would have maybe expected to

1:20:28pay per meal.

1:20:29Um

1:20:30and so, you know, that's why

1:20:32that's why I knew this was going to be

1:20:35particularly thorny.

1:20:37>> So so, per diems is per day, which is

1:20:40what it that means, or is it per meal?

1:20:43>> Uh the way we have it set up, and I

1:20:45don't remember the numbers, um but

1:20:47there's a breakfast, there's a lunch,

1:20:49and there's a dinner. So, you know,

1:20:51breakfast is $7, and lunch is 12, and

1:20:53dinner 15, or whatever the numbers are.

1:20:55Um so, it's not And so, it's that

1:20:57specific. For example, I just traveled

1:20:59for a conference. I left on Wednesday

1:21:01after lunch. So, I'll get the per diem

1:21:03for Wednesday evening meal, but not for

1:21:06Wednesday breakfast or lunch, cuz I

1:21:08didn't leave till after lunch. Right?

1:21:09So, it's not truly a per day, it's

1:21:11really a per meal.

1:21:12>> So, when I traveled for a living, gosh,

1:21:15way back when, we had a per day. And so,

1:21:19and [clears throat] actually, we had

1:21:21lunch at the top of the World Trade

1:21:23Center when that existed. That's how

1:21:24long ago it was. But to do that,

1:21:28we basically skipped breakfast and had

1:21:30McDonald's [laughter] for dinner or

1:21:31something. But we got to go up there

1:21:34and have lunch up there. I mean, that

1:21:36that's how we did it back then. And that

1:21:38makes sense, because if you're budgeting

1:21:41a certain amount of money, as long as

1:21:43you don't go over that budget, you know,

1:21:45and you're not wasteful.

1:21:47>> And the per diem is the way staff does

1:21:49it. Again, I don't have to turn in any

1:21:50receipts.

1:21:52They know We know that I ate something

1:21:54for dinner Wednesday night, you know, so

1:21:57if you don't turn in a receipt to kind

1:21:59of

1:22:00back that up. So, it's very simple for

1:22:02my staff. It's just automatic.

1:22:05>> All right. As a keeper

1:22:07As a keeper of time, I've failed. We're

1:22:10past time. It is 6:33.

1:22:12>> I think if you chose to do something

1:22:14like that with per diem, we as staff

1:22:16would email you and say, "This is what

1:22:17you're receiving." And so, you're not

1:22:20You have the ability to object and say,

1:22:22"I was really late." Or I didn't make it

1:22:23that, you know, like so.

1:22:26Cuz staff does like fill out a form and

1:22:29that's a little bit more, but we would

1:22:30just email you and say here's what

1:22:32uh

1:22:34you know, we're submitting for you to be

1:22:36reimbursed up

1:22:36>> And that would go into our paycheck.

1:22:39>> Yes.

1:22:39>> Would it get taxed?

1:22:41>> Yes.

1:22:42>> Cuz it's another

1:22:44>> I haven't

1:22:44>> fringe benefit.

1:22:45>> I can tell you in a couple of weeks if

1:22:47mine gets taxed when it comes in.

1:22:49>> Yeah, I'm

1:22:49>> I'm wondering if it did but I think it's

1:22:51going to

1:22:51>> I think some taxes

1:22:52>> Because it's a because it's a flat fee

1:22:54and not specific reimbursements, right?

1:22:57>> Yeah.

1:22:59>> Okay.

1:23:00>> So, it's really

1:23:0128.6%

1:23:03or whatever the heck it is less that

1:23:05you're actually getting back

1:23:07than that way.

1:23:08>> So, we want to pick up where

1:23:09>> next time.

1:23:10>> That is exactly my question, Mayor.

1:23:12Is there

1:23:14something

1:23:15I could see this going one of two ways.

1:23:18Just like I took a stab at this rough

1:23:21draft, I will take a stab at

1:23:25>> decision points.

1:23:26>> Well, I feel like we made some

1:23:28>> Yeah, we're close to decision points, I

1:23:30think.

1:23:31>> this into the slide deck we would like

1:23:34to present to our colleagues.

1:23:35>> Yeah, cuz we agreed on like here's the

1:23:37threshold and here's the bucket. Like

1:23:39not the bucket amount, but

1:23:41>> How about I do that then?

1:23:43Um I will take this document and our

1:23:47hours of conversation that I'm very

1:23:49grateful I can go back and look at

1:23:51recordings of and convert it into a

1:23:54slide deck for a potential way to

1:23:58present this to our colleagues to

1:24:00actually

1:24:01craft a more final version of the

1:24:03policies. Um but that's what I can bring

1:24:07back to us at our next committee meeting

1:24:11is the rough draft of that slide deck to

1:24:13get it into shape to take to council. Is

1:24:15that where we're at?

1:24:18>> Yeah.

1:24:19In the meantime between now and the next

1:24:21committee meeting.

1:24:23Jenny is sending out a letter that's

1:24:25revised.

1:24:27And what else do I need to do?

1:24:32>> Yeah, so we'll take the revisions to the

1:24:34email and we'll send it out this week

1:24:36and get that um started and um

1:24:40then we'll kind of see what our

1:24:41responses are, but we'll maybe keep you

1:24:43updated along the way.

1:24:45If we get it out this week, then that

1:24:47means it does go in the October meetings

1:24:50for the boards because they're putting

1:24:52their stuff together now.

1:24:54I'm sure they can.

1:24:56>> Yeah, and probably we should brief

1:24:58everybody just to make absolutely sure

1:25:00they understand it in our 3x4s because

1:25:02they'll be a council liaison at each of

1:25:04those advisory board meetings and

1:25:05they're going to turn to their council

1:25:06liaison probably with some questions

1:25:09just to make sure they they know

1:25:12basically what we just discussed that we

1:25:14we chose to be not too prescriptive

1:25:17about the information they use to make

1:25:19these determinations and

1:25:22I'm sure you'll share the email with

1:25:23council, so it shouldn't be

1:25:26Yeah, should be more than a few minutes

1:25:28in each 3x4 just to make sure everybody

1:25:30remembers cuz I think Bella wasn't

1:25:31there.

1:25:33Right, so it'll be new to her.

1:25:34>> And Bella won't have one cuz she's the

1:25:37BOA cuz she doesn't get one.

1:25:40>> But she will with the new creative board

1:25:43as soon as you ask me to appoint.

1:25:45>> Yes, yes. Actually the liaison for that

1:25:48one?

1:25:48>> Yeah.

1:25:49>> I think this one will happen first and

1:25:50then that one, so

1:25:53>> Okay.

1:25:53>> Okay.

1:25:54>> Thank you.

1:25:54>> All right, we're adjourned.

1:25:56>> Thank you.

1:25:56>> Thank you.

1:25:57>> Absolutely.

1:25:59>> Always. I've always got

1:26:01a a couple or two or three.