2026-10-22 - Town Council Meeting

01:59Mhm.

03:54>> Mhm.

04:11>> hearing.

04:14>> Call to order the October 22nd meeting

04:17of the Cary Town Council.

04:20And at this time I'll recognize Council

04:22member Richards who will have our

04:23ceremonial uh

04:25>> What? It is actually Article number one.

04:28Yes.

04:29>> Council member Huang who has our

04:30ceremonial opening.

04:31>> Thank you.

04:32>> My bad.

04:32>> Mayor.

04:33Thank you. Good evening, everyone.

04:36Um October is breast cancer awareness

04:38month, a time to raise awareness,

04:41honor survivors, and remind ourselves

04:44the importance of the early detection

04:46and supporting one another.

04:49Breast cancer is the second leading

04:50cause of cancer death among women in the

04:54United States after lung cancer.

04:57Uh one of my friend was diagnosed while

05:00she was pregnant.

05:03Not only did she survive, but also she

05:05welcomed a healthy baby. And his son is

05:09the same age as my daughter.

05:11Um as women we often wear many hats as

05:15mothers, wives, professionals, and

05:17public servants.

05:19We spend so much time caring for others

05:22that sometimes we forget to care for

05:24ourselves.

05:26But beyond all the roles we play, we

05:28need to re- remember to be ourselves, to

05:32be kind to ourselves, and to make our

05:35own health a priority.

05:37I also want to recognize the families,

05:39caregivers, and loved ones who stand

05:42beside those facing breast cancer.

05:44Your love, your love, patience, and

05:47support make a tremendous difference.

05:50Now, it's my honor to read today's

05:52proclamation recognizing Breast Cancer

05:55Awareness Month.

05:59And I did my annual mammogram check

06:01yesterday.

06:02>> [laughter]

06:04>> Whereas October is recognized as Breast

06:07Cancer Awareness Month, bringing

06:10attention to the importance of breast

06:12cancer education, early detection, and

06:15access to care. And whereas breast

06:18cancer affects individuals and families

06:21throughout Cary,

06:23underscoring the importance of

06:25awareness, prevention, and support for

06:28those impacted by the disease.

06:30And whereas local healthcare providers,

06:33community organizations, and advocates

06:36play a vital role in promoting

06:38screenings, sharing resources, and

06:40supporting patients and survivors.

06:43And whereas

06:45Cary encourages residents to prioritize

06:48their health, support those affected by

06:50breast breast cancer, and join in

06:53raising awareness throughout our

06:55community.

06:57Now, therefore, I, Council Member Bella

06:59Huong, on behalf of the Cary Cary Mayor

07:02and Council, do hereby proclaim October

07:05as Breast Cancer Awareness Month in

07:07Cary, North Carolina, and encourage all

07:10residents to help promote awareness,

07:12early detection, and provide support to

07:15those impacted by breast breast cancer.

07:19Proclaim this 22nd day of October, 2026.

07:24And lastly,

07:27I would love to invite you all to join

07:30us at the Diwali celebration at Cary

07:32Downtown Park on October 26th.

07:36I hope to see you all there.

07:38Now, please rise and join me to the

07:40Pledge of Allegiance.

07:43>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

07:47United States of America.

07:49And to the republic for which it stands,

07:52one nation under God, indivisible, with

07:56liberty and justice for all.

08:00>> [clears throat]

08:01>> Thank you, Council Member Wong.

08:04First order of business is to adopt the

08:06agenda, and I would entertain a motion

08:09to do so.

08:10>> Moved.

08:11>> Is there a second?

08:12>> Second.

08:12>> Do we have a a change to the

08:14>> We'll get to it.

08:15>> Okay, sorry.

08:16>> Yep.

08:17Um

08:18All in favor uh of the motion, please

08:20say I.

08:21>> I.

08:22>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

08:24We're now at our first and only

08:26presentation, and it's a good one.

08:28Presentation of Cary Band Day

08:30proclamation,

08:32and I'll invite Council Member Craig,

08:34who might be the only

08:36Cary Band Day mother ever to do this

08:39proclamation. [laughter]

08:40>> That's a first.

08:41>> That's a first. Uh and the

08:43representatives from Cary High School to

08:46the podium for the presentation.

08:58>> I am very excited to present the

09:00proclamation for the 67th Cary Band Day,

09:04and this year we are calling it Scary

09:06Band Day. It will be on October 31st,

09:10which it as far as I know is a first,

09:12also. Um my son is a junior in the band,

09:15and as you can tell from my Cary green,

09:18which Cary green, by the way, is for

09:20Cary High.

09:21Um

09:23But, uh I'm very I'm a very proud band

09:26parent, and so thank you all for being

09:28here. Um

09:30and I will read the proclamation.

09:33Whereas the Cary High School band has

09:35long been recognized for outstanding

09:37musical and marching excellence, earning

09:39both national and regional recognition

09:42for its impressive achievements.

09:44Whereas the dedication and talent of

09:46Cary High School band members bring

09:48pride to our community while also

09:50reflecting their commitment to academic

09:52achievement and personal growth.

09:55And whereas music enriches lives,

09:57connects cultures, and serves as a

09:59powerful force for unity, creativity,

10:02and shared celebration.

10:04And whereas 2026

10:07marks the 105th anniversary of the Cary

10:10band, which started in 1921,

10:13and continues to inspire generations.

10:16Whereas for 67 years the Cary band has

10:19proudly hosted North Carolina's premier

10:21celebration of marching band excellence

10:23and music education.

10:25Now, therefore, I, Council Member

10:27Michelle Craig, on behalf of the Cary

10:29mayor and council, do hereby proclaim

10:32Saturday, October 31st, 2026

10:35as the 67th Cary Band Day, and urge all

10:39residents of Cary and the surrounding

10:41areas to join in honoring and supporting

10:43this long-standing Cary tradition.

10:45Proclaimed this 22nd day of October,

10:482026.

10:51And if any of you are missing me on

10:53Saturday, I'll be selling concessions

10:55starting at 9:00 a.m. [laughter]

10:58But I I am from North Carolina and I

11:01marched with South Johnston High School

11:03for a short time in high school. My

11:05husband is from Virginia and there was

11:09no

11:10event you wanted to attend more than

11:11Cary Band Day. So, it's very much a

11:13regionally celebrated thing. We're so

11:16excited for Cary Band Day as always, and

11:20here's the proclamation.

11:23>> [applause]

11:29>> Uh thank you. My name is Brandon Martel.

11:31I'm the director of Cary High School. On

11:34behalf of all of us, thank you so much

11:35to the town of Cary for supporting our

11:38event and uh, celebrating our school and

11:40celebrating our students. Thank you.

11:42>> Thank you.

11:44Look forward to scary day.

11:46>> It's also our major fundraiser. That's

11:49as we are underfunded by the school

11:51system and beyond, um, the arts are not

11:54supported as much as they should be.

11:55Please come out and and support us on

11:57Saturday.

11:58>> Thank you.

11:59>> [laughter]

12:02>> Okay, we now move to our third agenda

12:05item, public speaks out. We've included

12:08instructions for speaking at this forum

12:10online and on the printed agenda.

12:13There were three opportunities to

12:15participate in public speaks out through

12:18written comments, by calling in, or by

12:21attending here in person tonight.

12:23If you are here in person and would like

12:25to speak, please take a seat

12:28in the rows to my right that are

12:29highlighted.

12:31Public speaks out speakers have 3

12:33minutes each for their comments and may

12:36speak on any topic as long as it's town

12:39related

12:40and is not a public hearing. And the

12:42public hearings get more time, so that's

12:44to your benefit.

12:46The 3-minute time limit will be

12:48enforced, not to be rude, but to be fair

12:51to all of our speakers.

12:53You will You'll start off with a green

12:55light with the lights on the podium

12:58there.

12:59And when it turns yellow, that means you

13:00have 30 seconds remaining, and when it

13:02flashes red, that's the point I'll

13:03interrupt you. Again, not trying to be

13:06rude, but trying to be fair to all of

13:08our speakers.

13:10I would ask that all speakers be

13:11respectful in their comments and direct

13:14those comments to the entire council and

13:17not to one individual.

13:19And I thank everyone in the audience for

13:21understanding that this is a business

13:24meeting and respecting that this is a

13:26business meeting,

13:28please do not applaud, make remarks from

13:30your seats, use props, or do anything

13:33else that may distract from this meeting

13:36and our speakers.

13:37So, now is the time for public speaks

13:40out. And first, I'll call on our clerk

13:42to share the number of written comments

13:44and call on any registered speakers.

13:47>> We had seven written comments and four

13:49registered speakers.

13:51Um

13:52the written comments have been emailed

13:53to council prior to meeting, provided to

13:55council upon arrival, and attached to

13:57the online agenda.

13:59Our first speaker is a call-in speaker,

14:01and it's Le Chun Young.

14:05Can you confirm you can hear us?

14:08>> Yes, I can.

14:10>> Please proceed.

14:11>> Please proceed.

14:13>> Thank you. Um thank you very much. Good

14:16evening, uh mayor and members of the

14:17council. Um I appreciate the opportunity

14:20to speak this evening. I'm sorry that

14:22I'm not able to attend in person, but um

14:25I'm sure everyone would prefer that I

14:26keep my distance.

14:28>> [clears throat]

14:28>> I'm a little bit under the weather. So,

14:30my name is Le Chun Young, [snorts] and

14:33I'm representing my family's business,

14:35uh the Sea Depot, along with um other

14:37merchants on East Chatham Street in

14:39Maynard. Um my family moved to Cary

14:41about 40 years ago, when we've been been

14:44residents. I too went to Cary High, um

14:47but uh supported the community. We've

14:49been employees and and now small

14:51business owners. Um my dad built the Sea

14:54Depot in 2006.

14:57So, about 20 years ago. Now, my own

15:00boys, um age 13 and 17, come in to help.

15:03Um they bring their friends. They

15:05proudly show them what their grandfather

15:06has started. And they all think it's so

15:08cool. And I I really think it's because

15:10it's an anomaly these days to see an

15:11entrepreneur that didn't build a cell

15:13phone app,

15:14uh but an actual physical store. So, I

15:17don't take any of it for granted. Um

15:18it's pretty special to see three

15:20generations connected by, you know, one

15:22little seafood market that my parents

15:24started. But our business affects

15:26families beyond Cary. Um we work with

15:28North Carolina shrimpers and fishermen.

15:30We've been bringing fresh um coastline

15:32seafood to our neighbors and we support

15:34the state's Got to Be NC initiative. So

15:36when customers shop with us, they're

15:39also supporting other North Carolina

15:40families. Um and so why am I speaking

15:43today? Because the Seafood Bowl is

15:45located at 750 East Chatham Street, um

15:47Suite G. We are the first storefront on

15:50the corner facing Chatham and Maynard.

15:52Um there has been a project named

15:56Project 5718 where on the drawings we're

15:58identified as business one, building one

16:01where this proposed project footprint

16:04will take place. Um so this isn't a

16:06distant concern as we understand it for

16:08our family. It's it's going to directly

16:10affect us. And so there are many stories

16:13like ours, um different cultures,

16:15different businesses, um you know,

16:17families who have invested many, many

16:18years building something in here. And of

16:21course we want to support, you know,

16:23kind of making the mail the railroad

16:25>> [clears throat]

16:25>> crossing safer, but the question is

16:28that I have is, you know, have we fully

16:29accounted for the businesses that may

16:31lose their building? Um what happens to

16:33those that remain, um but lose parking

16:36spaces and access and visibility during

16:38construction?

16:39Um you know, oftentimes we don't realize

16:41this, but a business doesn't have to be

16:43demolished to be lost. You know, we're

16:45we are preparing um a formal comment to

16:47the NCDOT. But tonight, you know, we're

16:50asking Cary to help bring the right

16:52people together, meet the merchants, see

16:54how the businesses operate, um help us

16:56get an accurate, updated assessment of

16:58every affected business, and help us

17:00work with NCDOT and and on a practical

17:03plan assessing our business during

17:05construction. So we're asking for your

17:07leadership in making sure that the

17:09people affected have a meaningful voice.

17:11Um we want safer crossings. We want Cary

17:13to keep growing. We just don't want you

17:15to do it without us.

17:17>> I'm sorry to have to interrupt you.

17:19Thank you.

17:22>> Our next registered speaker is in

17:23person, Mark Stollman.

17:36>> Could you move to your left, please?

17:37Thank you.

17:38>> Here you go.

17:39Good evening, Mayor and council members.

17:41My name is Mark Stollman. I live in

17:42downtown Cary.

17:44I'm here tonight to talk about um

17:47something that I think can help you

17:48guys. I know that there's a big effort

17:50now to

17:51do a lot of things related to the audit

17:53to help restore the trust in Cary. And I

17:56would have you

17:58Some of the big things I've heard about

17:59are, you know, transparency

18:01and access to information is is

18:03something people would like to see

18:05worked on.

18:06And I think if you look at what the town

18:07of Apex has done with their P-card

18:10monthly report Cary may want to look at

18:14that to see if that's something that

18:15they could also look into. Apex

18:17basically

18:18gives a report line by line of every

18:21P-card transaction. They post it out on

18:24their website, so anybody in the public

18:26can look at it, but it contains the date

18:29the department

18:31what it is that was bought the approval

18:34on it, but I think it's

18:36it's a really good step to maybe

18:39alleviate some of the FOIA requests that

18:41you may get about P-cards. If it's right

18:44there or a website where you could see

18:46it. They do it pretty timely, too. If

18:48you went out there today, you could see

18:49September's P-card transactions. So,

18:52consider that in your

18:55continuing efforts to work on things.

18:58And

18:59I think that would be a great step for

19:00Cary to take. Thank you very much for

19:02your time.

19:04>> Our next in person speaker is Mario

19:06Ernst.

19:31>> Good evening. My name is Mario Ernst.

19:35And well, I'm and thank you mayor, the

19:37council members and staff for at least a

19:40a new resident in the area come and

19:42comment.

19:43Uh I moved with my wife about a year and

19:46a half ago

19:47from Los Angeles to be with our kids

19:50and grandkids and great grandkids for

19:53that matter.

19:55One of the things that uh we learned

19:57coming from Los Angeles is

19:59we have a lot of diversity in Los

20:01Angeles. But what's different there than

20:04here is if I want to go from one

20:06community to another, I have to drive 30

20:10minutes in one direction for Chinatown,

20:1230 minutes for Koreatown. If I want to

20:14get to the

20:15uh the Hispanic area that's in downtown.

20:20Chatham

20:21and

20:23Maynard Crossing

20:25is probably one of the most unique

20:28economic diverse

20:30business environments and cultures that

20:32I've ever seen in my entire life.

20:36And it hurts me to say

20:38that we're going to try to eliminate all

20:41these businesses,

20:42all this history

20:44over so many years and generations of

20:46immigrants, immigrants families

20:50just for widening road.

20:54I understand public safety. I'm very

20:56aware of that.

20:58But I think if we

21:02erase part of our culture,

21:04we're going to erase part of ourselves.

21:07So I say this as a new resident

21:10to the Cary area.

21:13And I would ask you really three

21:15different things

21:16or three unique items.

21:18Somewhat similar to what Li Chen said

21:20this evening.

21:21One,

21:23go out there and visit. Just check out

21:26what you have. I don't think anybody

21:28really is

21:29understands the unique

21:33diversity that exists there.

21:36I mean, I can read off the the list of,

21:39you know,

21:39Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Caribbean,

21:42Haitian,

21:43Kore- uh Middle Eastern, I North

21:46African, it's it's utterly amazing. And

21:49India, I'm sorry, India, Pakistan,

21:51there's so many I can't even remember it

21:53for the cultures. All in one small,

21:56dense area. You can visit lots of

21:58countries in just one day.

22:00So, I ask three things. First, as I

22:02said, if you could walk through and

22:04visit and talk to the owners and see

22:05what they've done. Secondly, I ask this

22:08council to work with the NCDOT

22:11and the merchants and the property

22:12owners

22:14to poo ways to perhaps preserve the

22:17district

22:18as a culture destination, not just

22:20simply a relocation of 60 businesses

22:24and then scatter them all over the city.

22:28And then finally, work with the

22:29businesses of themselves. Do an

22:31up-to-date business impact study. Not

22:35one based from 2018.

22:37>> I'm sorry, I have to interrupt you. You

22:39left the copy with the clerk. She'll

22:40make sure we get a copy.

22:42>> Thank you.

22:42>> Thank you.

22:44>> Our um last registered speaker is

22:47Esmeralda Angel.

23:06>> [sighs]

23:07>> Okay.

23:08Um, hello.

23:09My name is Esmeralda Angel. I'm

23:11representing my parents um, local

23:13Mexican restaurant down the street,

23:15Esmeralda Grill on East Chatham Street.

23:18So, off what Mario is going, we do

23:21we would like if you could redo your

23:24economical impact analysis because

23:27realistically it's not actually

23:28representing what's actually happening.

23:31It's going off of what was originally

23:33going to be done when you were going to

23:34go through the trailer park, but um,

23:37mainly anything like

23:45it's going to displace a lot of people

23:49and a lot of workers and a lot of work.

23:52My mom saved for about 18 years before

23:55she was able to open that place. She

23:58poured herself into it.

24:01>> [snorts]

24:01>> I mean, there's not a day that she

24:02doesn't take off because that's that's

24:04everything to her. That's the way that

24:06she was able to feed me and my siblings.

24:09She was lucky enough to give

24:12people

24:14the opportunity to do the same thing for

24:16their children. She's

24:18not only she helping the economy in

24:20Cary, she pays her taxes, she provides

24:23jobs, she does so much for the

24:25community. So, I really think it's

24:26unfair that we're going to be displaced

24:29just because you want to expand the road

24:31in that area. I believe there's a lot of

24:33other ways

24:35to get that done. I don't think you

24:37necessarily have to go through a lot of

24:38people's hard-earned money

24:41and what people depend on

24:43in order to do that. There's a lot of

24:45other ways to accomplish it. I mean

24:48like he said, go to the area, see what's

24:50around there. There's so many great

24:52things. There's a lot of great people.

24:54There's so many kind people, great

24:56businesses. I mean, you'll learn a lot

24:58about us.

24:59And not only that, we also have another

25:01business in in the same shopping center

25:04that provides groceries and food for

25:06people and money services. There's a

25:09money service business in that area too

25:11that helps people send money to their

25:13family members if if they're sick, if

25:16they need help in anything. I mean, it's

25:18it's a great place. I just don't

25:19understand why we can't find another way

25:22to not go through there.

25:25Like I think there's something else we

25:27can do and I would wish that you guys

25:30would look into that and hopefully

25:32realize that there is something else to

25:33be done.

25:35Thank you.

25:36>> Thank you.

25:38>> That's our last registered speaker.

25:40>> If you are here this evening and would

25:42like to speak at public speaks out, now

25:44is your opportunity and I would invite

25:46you forward.

25:47>> [snorts]

25:52>> Thank you for the opportunity to speak

25:54to you tonight. I'm Margaret Partridge,

25:56a resident of Cary since 1990,

25:59a local chapter chair of the North

26:01Carolina Native Plant Society, and a

26:04member of the newly formed Invasive

26:06Plant Removal Coalition of Cary.

26:10In 2013, the Native Plant Society

26:12adopted a segment of Black Creek

26:15Greenway as part of the town's

26:17Adopt-A-Spot

26:18program.

26:20The town agreed to allow green trash

26:23removal. That is, removal of non-native

26:25invasive plants.

26:27And rather than that being a mistake,

26:30it has allowed volunteers to remove

26:33literally groves of privet and

26:35Elaeagnus, resulting in the restoration

26:38of the only plants that provide all the

26:41ecological services our

26:44wildlife and we require to thrive. That

26:47is our Piedmont native plants.

26:50I have witnessed a grove transform from

26:53mostly privet to our native buckeyes

26:57just by removing the competition.

26:59Volunteers have done the majority of

27:01this work without requiring any services

27:04from the town.

27:06Some of these non-native plants

27:08um metastasize from plantings required

27:12by the old town code. But recently, I

27:16have observed a new planting of

27:18non-native and potentially invasive

27:20plants on a new segment of Black Creek

27:23Greenway. So, I have concerns that the

27:25town has not put into practice written

27:27policies.

27:29Last May, I asked to move our work on

27:32Black Creek Greenway to a new segment. I

27:34was informed that the town was putting a

27:37pause on new invasive removal projects.

27:40I had a long conversation with staff at

27:42that time.

27:44During this pause, the Invasive Plant

27:46Removal Coalition of Cary was formed and

27:48it includes members from 10

27:50environmental organizations.

27:53We met with staff on September 3rd and

27:55were assured that a new process was

27:58ready to go.

27:59And here we are still on pause.

28:02In these 6 months, the invasive plants

28:04are certainly not pausing and they

28:07continue to invade and degrade our

28:09precious natural areas.

28:12Aspirational words in plans don't get

28:16the job done. Only action will and Cary

28:19is losing out on some wonderful expert

28:22assistance.

28:24Cary used to be ahead of the curve, but

28:26currently it's other local

28:28municipalities that see volunteers as a

28:30solution. Chapel Hill does

28:33and so far in 2026, Keep Durham

28:36Beautiful has logged almost 900 hours of

28:39volunteer invasive plant removal.

28:42Cary used to be a great partner in this

28:45realm. Please allow us to resume this

28:48important work. Thank you.

28:50>> Thank you.

28:52Next speaker, please.

28:56>> [clears throat]

29:01>> Good evening, Mayor Weinbrecht and uh

29:04council members.

29:05My name is Alex White and I am the owner

29:07of Cooper's Furniture at 820 East

29:10Chatham Street. Cooper's has been

29:12serving this community since 1929,

29:14nearly 100 years. We've been at our

29:16current location in Cary since 1949.

29:21I purchased the business last year after

29:23spending 28 years working for the

29:24Cooper's.

29:26I took on that responsibility and a

29:28large SBA loan

29:31uh knowing that I was inheriting

29:32something special. Generations of loyal

29:34customers,

29:35a reputation built on trust, and a

29:37business that continues welcoming new

29:39families as Cary grows. And that's

29:41something I want to keep building. Our

29:43business is a little different from some

29:45of the merchants you've heard from

29:46tonight. We're not directly on the

29:48corner of Chatham and Maynard, but that

29:50doesn't mean the proposed changes won't

29:51affect us. According to the proposed

29:53map, our building is in the easement

29:55path and will have to go, according to

29:57DOT employees at the meeting on October

29:596th.

30:00Uh meaning relocation for us, which is

30:02expensive and uh

30:05possibly just not possible. Uh our

30:07business furniture shopping is a

30:09destination visit. People come to

30:11browse, compare, sit on a sofa, and take

30:14their time making a decision. We want

30:15that experience to be enjoyable, not

30:17stressful. We have a large parking lot

30:19for a reason. Customers need convenient

30:21access and furniture deliveries and

30:22pickups require space for trucks to

30:25enter, maneuver, load, and leave safely.

30:28>> [snorts]

30:28>> So, when we talk about these changes to

30:30traffic patterns, road closures,

30:32detours, parking, and construction

30:34access, those aren't minor

30:35inconveniences. They can affect whether

30:37customers choose to visit us at all.

30:40We recently shared our concerns on

30:41social media and the response reminding

30:44us of how much this business and this

30:45area mean to the people who shop here. I

30:48recognize the need to improve safety at

30:50the railroad crossing and I understand

30:52that projects like this involve

30:53difficult decisions, but there's no

30:55one-size-fits-all solution for the

30:57businesses along this corridor. A

30:59restaurant, a grocery store, a seafood

31:01market, and a furniture store all

31:02operate differently. Their customers

31:04arrive differently, their deliveries

31:06work differently. That's why I'm asking

31:07Cary and the NCDOT to sit down with the

31:10businesses, come out, look how the

31:12proposed changes will affect each

31:13property, not just on a map, but in

31:16everyday operations. Let's understand

31:18that the tradeoffs and the work toward

31:20and work toward a solution that improves

31:22safety while minimizing unnecessary

31:24disruption to the businesses that have

31:26served this community for generations.

31:28We've been here for nearly a century and

31:30we'd like to keep

31:32welcoming Cary families for many more.

31:35And I have over 8 million left on an SBA

31:38loan and I don't know how I'm going to

31:39pay it if this goes through.

31:41Thank you.

31:41>> Thank you.

31:43Anyone else for public speaks out? Yes.

31:50>> Thank you, uh, Mayor and the Town

31:52Council. Um, I have a small business,

31:54Discovery Automotive on 1400.

31:56>> give us your name, please?

31:57>> Dave Lipman.

31:58>> Thank you.

31:59>> Yeah. And, um,

32:01around 2019-2020,

32:03we got we went to a meeting about this

32:05railroad and the road, everything. And

32:08at that point, it was going through the

32:10trailer park. And just 3 weeks ago,

32:13that's the first time I heard anything

32:15different and this isn't giving anybody

32:17a lot of time, but 3 weeks and this has

32:19been going on for 6 years, we we're just

32:22finding out about this. So, all these

32:24small businesses, when you look at the

32:26plans, the road doesn't need to be

32:28widened 100 ft. It doesn't make any

32:30sense. There's there's enough room on

32:32the road. I know that the road has to go

32:34down 27 ft. I've been to lots of roads

32:37where there's retaining walls and you

32:38drive down and all the small businesses

32:41can stay in business. It's not really

32:42fair to kick out all these small

32:44businesses.

32:45And it seems like a gentrification of

32:48Cary. That's what it seems like.

32:49Literally, you're coming down Maynard

32:51and then you're going down Chatham. All

32:53those businesses. Why couldn't you go

32:55across the road where there's one

32:57building and widen the road and you

32:59don't take out all the businesses on

33:00Chatham? Or

33:02there's a lot of other options, but

33:03you're literally giving us 3 weeks to

33:06find out about this when this has been

33:07going on for 6 years. Kind of behind

33:10closed doors and not telling anybody

33:11about this. This is like 3 weeks ago was

33:13the first time I heard about these

33:14plans.

33:15Our business is on Maynard.

33:17I don't even see one bike rider a day on

33:20Maynard. So, all these plans to make all

33:21these bike paths, no one's using these

33:23roads for bike paths. The roads are wide

33:26enough to go back and forth.

33:29It's not that busy on the road and I

33:31just don't understand

33:33why there's not another method to do

33:34this without putting everybody wouldn't

33:37say out of business, but when you have

33:38to move, it it can put you out of

33:40business. So, that's what I want to say

33:42today. Thank you.

33:43>> Thank you.

33:44Anyone else for public speaks out?

33:50>> [clears throat]

33:51>> Hello council. My name is Garrett Sharp.

33:54I am an ecologist at NC State and I just

33:57wanted to support Margaret's request to

34:00work on the greenways by providing a

34:02little bit of context about how bad this

34:04problem is in our city.

34:06So, I do private removal just for free

34:09or donation as a hobby.

34:11I've worked on 32 yards and I'm working

34:13on four or five more. In those yards

34:15over the past two and a half years, I

34:16have removed nearly 8 tons of English

34:19ivy. One and a half tons was on less

34:21than a third of an acre.

34:23So, this stuff spreads like wildfire. A

34:25lot of people are too old or too busy,

34:28have kids, have businesses to even think

34:31about removing this stuff and stuff both

34:34in private and public property. Like

34:36Margaret said, metastasizes. Birds

34:39eat it, poop it somewhere else, becomes

34:41a new problem. So, at least removing it

34:43off the trees reduces spread. There's

34:45also no regulation on planting any of

34:48these plants. Lowe's and Home Depot are

34:50not required to warn anybody that these

34:52things are essentially cancer on our

34:55properties.

34:56Uh every yard has at least one invasive

34:59around my neighborhood.

35:01Uh I try to convince them to remove

35:02them. Not all do.

35:05Uh so, removing it at least from the

35:06public space removes that threat from

35:09the public to the private land as well

35:11as to other public land. And I would

35:13just highly recommend uh that you

35:16consider letting us work on it because

35:18we want to do it for free. We literally

35:20just want to get this stuff out, see the

35:22native plants and native habitat rebound

35:25from

35:26decades of using these plants. Thank

35:29you.

35:29>> Thank you.

35:31Anyone else for public speaks out?

35:35Seeing no one, I'll close public speaks

35:37out. Usually, I don't do this, but Mr.

35:39Overton, is there a liaison on staff

35:41that can help people this great

35:42separation project? Because

35:45there's a couple of things. One, it's

35:46not a town project. We didn't design it.

35:49Well, there's more than a couple of

35:50things. Two, it's an S-Line project,

35:52which is going to be required over time.

35:54Three, it's on the tip. I think it's in

35:56the back 5 years. So, it's at least 5

35:59years away.

36:00And if we can have someone that can

36:03answer questions, so people are informed

36:05and not terrified and upset, that would

36:08really help. Uh because it seemed like

36:10NCDOT did a poor job of giving

36:13information if they terrified these

36:15people that work there and live there

36:17and

36:18>> Sure. I'd probably uh suggest folks uh

36:20send it to 311 with what their

36:22information is. That way we can route it

36:24to our transportation department. Uh

36:26they work closely with DOT, and we can

36:28make especially ensure that they get

36:30their comments in. The comments we heard

36:32tonight is the comment period uh for the

36:34public meeting that they just had. We

36:36understand is open through next week.

36:37>> So, it's a multi-year process. They're

36:40nowhere near doing what they're going to

36:42do. Please contact 311. They need to

36:46hear your comments. They need to

36:48understand your concerns. So, please

36:51make sure and if you can't get through,

36:53let me know. I'll help you get through.

36:55I've got contacts uh with CAMPO and

36:58NCDOT and we make sure your message gets

37:01heard. So, thank you for being here.

37:03>> [email protected]

37:06>> Yep.

37:08>> Just send an email and they'll get you

37:09to the right people.

37:11>> Thank you. Okay, we'll move to item

37:13number four. It's the consent agenda for

37:16benefit of people watching our meeting.

37:19We're going to take a moment to review

37:20the consent agenda items.

37:23Please understand on the consent agenda

37:25that we have minutes. We have recognized

37:28and appropriate funds from the North

37:30Carolina

37:31uh from the state of North Carolina's

37:332026 local law enforcement bonus

37:36program.

37:37Contracts Capital Ford and Piedmont

37:39Truck Center for purchases of

37:42fiscal year 2027 new and and replacement

37:45fleet vehicles. Council direction on

37:48special commission report

37:50recommendations.

37:51And I've heard from our mayor pro tem

37:53that she would like to pull the council

37:55direction on special commission report

37:58recommendations. So, if approved, the

38:01council will put this on the discussion

38:03agenda. Would council members like to

38:05pull any other items from consent for

38:09uh discussion? If not, I would entertain

38:11a motion to approve the amended consent

38:14agenda.

38:15>> So moved. Second.

38:17>> and a second. Discussion. All in favor,

38:19please say I.

38:20>> I.

38:20>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously,

38:23which takes us to public hearings. Same

38:26rules apply for public hearings that

38:28apply for public speaks out, except

38:30speakers now have 5 minutes each for

38:32their comments. Our first public hearing

38:35is the draft 2025-2026

38:38Community Development Block Grant or

38:41CDBG Consolidated Annual Performance

38:44Evaluation Report or CAPER Housing

38:47Programs Manager Mary

38:51How do you say

38:51>> Letterly.

38:52>> Letterly.

38:53>> Like a letter.

38:54>> Letterly will present this item and

38:56council may take action.

39:00>> Good evening, Mayor and Council.

39:02I'm glad to be here with you tonight to

39:03introduce the draft 2025-2026

39:07Consolidated Annual Performance

39:08Evaluation Report, also known as the

39:11CAPER.

39:14Tonight, we are reporting at a high

39:16level on how Cary achieved housing and

39:18community development outcomes with the

39:21over $2.4 million

39:23in federal and local funds invested

39:25during fiscal year 2026.

39:28To fulfill federal community

39:29participation guidelines, Council must

39:32hold a public hearing on this report.

39:34Tonight is that public hearing.

39:37Staff will include any comments received

39:39with the final CAPER filing with the

39:41federal government.

39:42After tonight, no further Council action

39:44is required on this item.

39:48The CAPER is the Consolidated Annual

39:51Performance Evaluation Report.

39:52This report is required by the

39:54Department of Housing and Urban

39:55Development or HUD

39:57annually for communities who receive

40:00Community Development Block Grant or

40:02CDBG funds.

40:04And it details how Cary spent federal

40:06and local funds to implement housing and

40:09community development goals within a

40:11specific fiscal year.

40:14As I As I we're here tonight to review

40:16just the fiscal year 2026 CAPER,

40:20but you may recall that HUD requires

40:21communities to establish several plans

40:24around CDBG funds.

40:26First, a consolidated plan identifying

40:28housing and community development needs

40:31over the next 5 years.

40:34Last year, Council adopted the 2025-2030

40:37Consolidated Plan that set goals for how

40:39CDBG funds will be used in that 5-year

40:42span.

40:44Within each of those 5 years, an annual

40:46action plan allocates funds to

40:48initiatives furthering established

40:50goals.

40:51Each April, you review the annual action

40:54plan, allocate funding, and set goals

40:56for the upcoming fiscal year.

40:59And finally,

41:00the Consolidated Annual Performance

41:02Evaluation Report, the CAPER, reports on

41:05Cary's progress toward 5-year and 1-year

41:08goals during the last completed fiscal

41:10year.

41:12And so, just to underscore that, the

41:14annual action plan that you saw a few

41:15months ago in April is not considered in

41:18this CAPER. We'll report on progress

41:20towards those goals at this time next

41:23year, once fiscal year 2027 has ended.

41:29>> [snorts]

41:29>> Before diving into the specifics of the

41:31fiscal year 2026 CAPER, I'll remind

41:33Council and our residents how this work

41:35aligns with Cary's Community Plan and

41:37Housing Strategy.

41:39As you know, Cary's work in housing is

41:41rooted in the vision established in the

41:43Imagine Cary Community Plan and the 2021

41:47Cary Housing Plan, which you fully

41:49integrated into the 2024 update to

41:51Imagine Cary.

41:54Cary envisions our housing as high

41:56quality and sustainable with diverse

41:58choices to meet our residents' needs.

42:01Ultimately, we envision housing in Cary

42:03to further the opportunity for all

42:05residents to enjoy the high quality of

42:07life our community has to offer.

42:10And while we are focused on all housing,

42:13as with many things that government

42:14does, we focus in particular to where

42:17there may be gaps in what the market

42:18provides.

42:20We know that the market is natural We

42:23know that the housing market is

42:24naturally better at serving households

42:26at and above 80% of the area median

42:29income or AMI.

42:31And does not as easily meet the housing

42:33needs of those with low to moderate

42:35incomes, seniors, and individuals with

42:38disabilities.

42:39So, we work with and guide the market

42:41where we can, and then focus our

42:43programs and partnerships in those areas

42:45where the private sector is not as

42:47naturally positioned to meet the needs

42:49of our residents.

42:50As shown above, the median income for a

42:52household of three in our area is

42:54$119,500,

42:57for example.

43:00To further the vision and goals of

43:02Cary's plans, we implement a

43:03comprehensive strategy that works across

43:06the housing continuum in each of these

43:08high-impact areas.

43:10New housing opportunities, housing

43:12rehabilitation and affordability

43:14preservation, housing stability and

43:16affordable living support, and nonprofit

43:19capacity building.

43:20Now, I'll share the progress that we've

43:22made in these key areas over the last

43:24fiscal year.

43:26First, in the new housing opportunities

43:28strategic area,

43:30>> [clears throat]

43:30>> 111 new affordable homes were developed

43:33during fiscal year 2026.

43:36These were in Rose Park Manor, White Oak

43:38Town Homes, and LaVona Cary.

43:41All three of these properties, which

43:43were developed and are managed

43:45privately,

43:46committed to providing affordable units

43:48as part of the rezoning process.

43:50Additionally, Cary awarded funding in

43:52previous fiscal years to support two of

43:54them, given their significant

43:56affordability commitments. Rose Park

43:59Manor and White Oak Town Homes.

44:02Rose Park Manor opened 81 affordable

44:04age-restricted apartments just outside

44:06of downtown Cary and serves residents

44:09between 30% and 60% of the area median

44:11income or AMI.

44:14White Oak Foundation opened 30

44:16townhomes, 15 of which are for residents

44:18at or below 80% of the AMI.

44:21At Lavano Cary, 15 of the 280 apartments

44:25are available for residents at or below

44:2780% AMI.

44:29No public funds were committed to this

44:31development.

44:34Additionally, as of the end of fiscal

44:35year 2026, Cary has 531

44:39new affordable homes in progress that

44:42will be coming to our community over the

44:43next several years.

44:46Marigold Cary will bring mixed-income

44:48apartments to town-owned land at 921

44:51Southeast Maynard Road, over half of

44:53which will be for residents between 30%

44:55and 80% of the area median income.

44:58They look forward to welcoming residents

45:00next summer.

45:02The Cary Center, a mixed-income

45:04development partnership between DHIC,

45:07The Carying Place, and Greenwood Forest

45:09Baptist Church, will bring a total of 62

45:12affordable units for residents between

45:1430% and 60% of the AMI, along with a

45:17daycare and nonprofit office space.

45:19This project is currently in the

45:21development plan review process.

45:24And in the pipeline, we have additional

45:27market-rate developments that committed

45:29to reserve up to 418 units through the

45:32rezoning process.

45:3440 of these units are part of

45:35development plans that are approved to

45:37start construction.

45:39226 have development plans under review.

45:43And the remainder have recei- have

45:45received rezoning approval, but have not

45:47yet submitted a development plan to

45:49staff.

45:52In the housing rehabilitation strategic

45:54area, we preserved 40 homes with local

45:56nonprofit partners Preserving Home and

45:58The Carying Place.

46:01Preserving Home operates our Healthy

46:02Homes Cary homeowner occupied home

46:05repair program, which preserved 36 homes

46:08this fiscal year.

46:10The Carying Place, which has a portfolio

46:12of 15 transitional homes for homeless

46:14working families in Cary, rehabilitated

46:17four of their units to ensure continued

46:19affordability.

46:21While both programs can serve residents

46:23up to 80% of the area median income,

46:26most are below 60% and many below 30.

46:30Of the homes served by the Healthy Homes

46:32Cary program, over 80% were east of Cary

46:35Parkway. So, in addition to helping our

46:37residents in need, we know this program

46:39is improving the quality of the housing

46:41stock in our oldest neighborhoods.

46:46In the housing stability support work

46:48area, over 500 households were provided

46:51homelessness support and prevention

46:53services.

46:54This assistance was through NeighborUp's

46:56administration of the Stable Homes Cary

46:58program, and additional programs run by

47:01the Carying Place, White Oak Foundation,

47:03A Doorway to Hope, and Triangle Family

47:05Services.

47:07In addition to providing general

47:08emergency assistance to many Cary

47:10residents in need, this year the Stable

47:13Homes Cary program helped households in

47:15the Chatham Estates community find

47:17housing options in the face of

47:18displacement.

47:20Over 40% of former Chatham Estates

47:22residents are able to continue living in

47:24Cary, and over 80% in Wake County.

47:28Through Stable Homes Cary and the other

47:30partner programs, Cary supported

47:32transitional housing, life skills

47:34training, emergency food and rental

47:36assistance, street outreach, and case

47:38management to help residents find and

47:41maintain stable housing.

47:45Cary's annual CAPER also reports on our

47:47community engagement and regional

47:49collaboration efforts.

47:50Key highlights included hosting three

47:52educational events at the Senior Center

47:55to share information on housing

47:56resources and programs, including the

47:58Healthy Homes Cary program.

48:0136 housing-related social media posts

48:03sharing information about our programs,

48:06presentations to 10 boards, commissions,

48:08and regional partners.

48:10We are active in the Wake County

48:11continue continuum of care that

48:14collaborates on the county's

48:15homelessness response, and this year I

48:17was elected to serve on that board.

48:20And we initiated a resident education

48:22campaign to heighten awareness around

48:24the Healthy Homes Cary program among

48:26seniors and within our older

48:27neighborhoods.

48:30All of these exciting outcomes were

48:32possible to due to over $2.4 million in

48:35investments.

48:37Of those funds, over $1.6 million were

48:39Cary general funds, and over $800,000

48:43were federal CDBG funds.

48:45Similar to many capital projects, our

48:47partner organizations complete projects

48:50and administer programs over multiple

48:52fiscal years.

48:53The expenditures shown here were

48:55approved by council in the fiscal year

48:572024, 2025, and 2026 Cary budget cycles.

49:02As a reminder, the funds you approved

49:04earlier this year are not considered

49:06here as they're being spent in the

49:08current fiscal year. We'll report at

49:09those at this time next year.

49:13To fulfill federal and local notice

49:15requirements, Cary began a 17-day public

49:18comment period for the draft CAPER that

49:20began on October 7th and will end

49:23tomorrow, October 23rd.

49:25Notice of the public comment period and

49:27tonight's hearing was shared in a News

49:29and Observer newspaper ad, posted in

49:31multiple places on Cary's website,

49:34visible on the physical notice board at

49:36the entrance to town hall, and emailed

49:38to local housing stakeholders.

49:41As of 5:00 p.m. today, two comments have

49:43been received on the draft plan, which

49:45noted the measurable results garnered

49:47through Cary investments.

49:49A summary of comments received before

49:51the close of the comment period tomorrow

49:53will be included in the plan before

49:55final submission to HUD at the end of

49:57this month.

50:00This concludes my presentation and after

50:02the public hearing, I'm happy to answer

50:04any questions you may have.

50:05>> Thank you.

50:07So now is the time for the public

50:10hearing for

50:14forgot what we titled this draft

50:162025-2026

50:19CDBG consolidated annual performance

50:21evaluation report CAPER and the housing

50:25programs

50:27housing programs.

50:28That was mouthful.

50:30Okay, so now it's time for this public

50:31hearing and I'll call on the clerk for

50:33any written comments or any call-in

50:35speakers.

50:36>> We received one written comment. This

50:38has been emailed to council prior to the

50:40meeting, provided to council upon

50:41arrival and then also attached to online

50:43agenda.

50:44>> Any

50:45>> No registered speakers.

50:46>> If you're here in the audience and would

50:48like to speak at this public hearing,

50:49now's your opportunity.

50:51Anyone to speak at this public hearing?

50:55Seeing [snorts] no one, I'll close the

50:56public hearing and open it up to council

50:59members for questions or comments. I'll

51:00just say

51:01thank you so much.

51:03I would like a link to her slides.

51:06I'm including that in my annual address

51:09next year. That was really good. Um so

51:12great summary of everything that's going

51:14on. It take me a while to pull all that

51:16stuff together. So thank you.

51:18And other colleagues

51:19>> I have just one comment.

51:21I'm [clears throat] so proud of y'all. I

51:24could Seriously, I'm tearing up.

51:26Just fantastic. So proud to sat here and

51:30watch you do such great work.

51:33>> You have great partners.

51:34>> Second. Yeah.

51:35>> [laughter]

51:35>> There you go.

51:37>> Anyone else?

51:38>> What only thing I would add is I really

51:41every year we get a report. We get the

51:43CAPER, we get the CDBG every

51:46I think it's interesting that we didn't

51:47get a lot of people come to comment

51:49because I think in many respects they're

51:52really happy with the work that's going

51:54on. But I think what's so tremendous

51:56about this year

51:58is something that you all did. Um and I

52:01think with the innovative spark

52:04that um

52:05Council Member Council Johnson said,

52:07which is what can you do to help Chatham

52:09County?

52:10>> Chatham Estates.

52:11>> Chatham Estates sorry, Chatham Estates.

52:13Um

52:14you you all came up with something and

52:16to know that 500 households, 500

52:19families were helped and it is well

52:22documented. 80% are able to stay in Wake

52:26County is is a much um brighter

52:30and um hopeful result than I would have

52:33thought when we started this.

52:35And I I think that's really

52:38that's really uh showing what you all

52:40did and put your heart and soul into.

52:42The other thing I think that's really

52:44amazing, the one number that surprised

52:46me was that you leveraged $20

52:50in private partnership funds.

52:52So it's not just the $2.4 million that

52:55our taxpayers, our federal taxpayers,

52:58Cary taxpayers, but it's the $20 in

53:01private um additional funds that you

53:04leveraged to make this happen. That's

53:06that's remarkable. So I think that work

53:08is is quite important and thank you for

53:11everything you've done.

53:13>> Do you need one else?

53:15Again, thank you, Ms. Latterly, and we

53:17will

53:19take this into account and

53:21feel good about it and move on and try

53:23to do even better next year.

53:26Um no motion is needed from the council

53:28and we'll move to our next item. Thank

53:30you.

53:32The second public hearing is the open

53:34space plan act

53:3746 Imagine Cary community plan and rich

53:40chapter updates. Urban Forester Leslie

53:42Mormon will present the item. Council

53:45may take action.

53:48>> Good evening, mayor and council members.

53:50I'm here tonight to introduce the Cary

53:51Open Space Plan and associated amendment

53:54to the Imagine Cary Community Plan.

53:56The Open Space Plan is an aspirational

53:58roadmap to implement long-term vision of

54:00open space in Cary.

54:02It is rooted in the Cary Community Plan

54:04and aligns with Cary Sustainability and

54:05Climate Action Strategy, Urban Forest

54:08Master Plan, and the PRCS System Plan.

54:11This is a 10-year strategy for

54:12implementation.

54:13Will adapt and evolve as new

54:15innovations, resources, and growth occur

54:17across our landscape.

54:21Tonight, we're holding the public

54:22hearing on Cary's Open Space Plan and

54:24the corresponding comprehensive plan

54:26amendments. There are three key

54:28takeaways.

54:29First, the plan establishes five goals

54:31and 13 objectives to guide Cary's Open

54:34Space Network.

54:35Second, it reflects the belief that we

54:37can support both healthy ecosystems and

54:39a growing community.

54:41Finally, the proposed Act 46 amendments

54:43will incorporate open space priorities

54:46and updated language into chapter 8

54:48enriched of the Cary Community Plan.

54:51These amendments are essential to

54:52putting the Open Space Plan into

54:54practice

54:55and ensuring its policies can be

54:56implemented and enforced.

55:01The process to update the plan began in

55:03fall of 2023

55:05following the council's request to

55:06revisit the original 2001 Open Space

55:09Plan.

55:10Over the past 2 years, staff have

55:12reviewed the existing plan, gathered

55:13staff and community input, developed

55:16goals and objectives, and incorporated

55:18feedback through a public comment period

55:20and a working session with council back

55:23in 20 August 28, 2025.

55:26Tonight's public hearing and the

55:27associated comprehensive plan amendments

55:29are the final steps in that process.

55:35One of the plan's first steps was to

55:37clearly define open space in Cary.

55:39It includes both publicly and privately

55:42owned land and what land and water that

55:44preserve natural, historic, and cultural

55:46resources, support ecological

55:48resilience, provide ecosystem services,

55:51and help protect against flooding.

55:54This graphic illustrates how open spaces

55:56under different ownerships, state,

55:58county, town, and private, connect to

56:00form a broader network across Cary.

56:02Open space isn't just about individual

56:04properties. It's about how these areas

56:06work together to benefit our community.

56:12To understand where high-quality open

56:14space exists in Cary, we started with an

56:16ecological framework that looks at open

56:18space as a connected network rather than

56:20a collection of isolated properties.

56:23Connected green spaces function more

56:24effectively because corridors and

56:26smaller stepping stones allow wildlife,

56:28water, and other natural resources to

56:30move across that landscape.

56:33Those smaller connections become

56:34especially important in our fragmented

56:36landscapes.

56:38The framework also helps us identify

56:40gaps in that network.

56:42When gaps become too large, wildlife may

56:44no longer be able to move between

56:46ecosystems, and water quality can

56:48suffer. Identifying these gaps helps us

56:50pinpoint opportunities for restoration

56:53and strengthen Cary's overall open space

56:55network.

56:58Examples of stepping stones can include

57:00smaller parks like Carpenter Park

57:02um or HOA open space and stormwater

57:04ponds. Even someone's backyard can count

57:06as a stepping stone.

57:08Patches include larger spaces such as

57:10Bond Park and Hemlock Bluffs.

57:12And corridors include

57:14um spaces like Lynn Branch off of Cary

57:16Parkway, White Oak Creek Greenway, or

57:18even our larger streetscape streetscape

57:21buffers can act as a corridor.

57:25The plan identify identifies five types

57:28of open space throughout Cary,

57:30which will be shown over the next few

57:31slides.

57:32Um which includes both publicly and

57:34privately owned properties.

57:39Knowing the extent and location of each

57:41open space type

57:43helps determine the different state

57:45different strategies that can be put in

57:46place.

57:49We can identify how each of the open

57:51space patches are connected and the role

57:53each plays within Cary's open space

57:54network.

57:59Each open space types

58:01presents a unique set of opportunities

58:03as well as challenges.

58:10Together, these five open space types

58:12help us understand not just how much

58:14open space we have in Cary, but where it

58:16exists, what role it plays, and how we

58:18can better protect and connect it for

58:20the future.

58:21Currently, Cary has 42% open space, of

58:24which 30% is considered protected open

58:26space,

58:27which includes not only Cary parks, but

58:30also preservation easements, state and

58:32county owned protected land, and the

58:34100-ft buffers around our streams.

58:37I do want to point out that the maps

58:39generated throughout this process are

58:40just a snapshot in time and show the

58:42potential open space in Cary.

58:44But as growth and development continues

58:46and land uses change, that potential is

58:48going to be altered.

58:52Building the landscape of ecology

58:54framework we discussed earlier, we

58:56categorized Cary's open space into

58:58patches, stepping stones, and corridors

59:00to better understand how connected our

59:02network is and where those gaps exist.

59:06That analysis helped us develop Cary's

59:08open space vision map.

59:10It provides a long-term framework for

59:12protecting, enhancing, and connecting

59:13our natural areas by identifying key

59:16ecological sites, important connections,

59:18and places where conservation and

59:20stewardship can have the greatest

59:22impact.

59:24Ultimately, the maps helps us balance

59:26growth with open space preservation and

59:29guide future development and

59:30decision-making across Cary.

59:34Community input was an important part

59:36part of the process from the very

59:37beginning, providing opportunities for

59:39residents, boards, and staff to share

59:41their priorities and help shape the

59:43plan.

59:44Engagement included a community survey,

59:46focus groups with teens, older adults,

59:48and cultural arts representatives,

59:50pop-up events at Spring Daze and Lazy

59:51Daze, and three public workshops.

59:54These efforts help ensure that community

59:56that the community priorities and

59:57perspectives were reflected in the plan.

1:00:01The open space plan is a living document

1:00:03that sets visions for Cary's future

1:00:05while remaining adaptable to to evolving

1:00:07community needs. It begins with the

1:00:10plan's purpose and planning context,

1:00:12examines Cary's existing open space

1:00:14system and ecological connectivity, and

1:00:17defines the five types of open space.

1:00:20From there, the path forward outlines

1:00:22the goals, objectives, and actions that

1:00:24will guide our work.

1:00:25Because this is a 10-year plan, we've

1:00:27also developed an implementation matrix

1:00:29identifying action leads, partners, and

1:00:31approximate timelines.

1:00:33This help will help staff set

1:00:34priorities, coordinate efforts, and

1:00:37track progress.

1:00:40Ultimately, five goals were developed to

1:00:41guide Cary's open space conservation

1:00:43resource resource management efforts.

1:00:46They focus on protecting, connecting,

1:00:49managing, supporting, and growing our

1:00:51open space network.

1:00:53Together, these goals provide These

1:00:55goals provide a clear path forward for

1:00:57protecting Cary's natural resources

1:00:59while supporting a growing community.

1:01:03Minor updates to the enrich chapter are

1:01:05proposed through act amendment.

1:01:07Act 46 will incorporate the open space

1:01:09plan into the Imagine Cary Community

1:01:11Plan and ensure that the comprehensive

1:01:13plan continues to reflect Cary's open

1:01:16space policies, goals, and direction.

1:01:19These proposed updates to the enrich

1:01:20chapter under Act 46

1:01:23will provide consistency between the

1:01:24adopted open space plan and the

1:01:26community-wide policy framework

1:01:27established within the Imagine Cary.

1:01:33This concludes my overview of the open

1:01:34space plan and Act 46. Following the

1:01:36public hearing, Council may recommend

1:01:38the amendment

1:01:40to the Planning and Zoning Board for

1:01:41review, and the Planning and Zoning

1:01:42Board may recommend them back to Council

1:01:44for final action and adoption.

1:01:46There are no budget no budget decisions

1:01:48being made here tonight. However, upon

1:01:50plan adoption, the open space plan will

1:01:52guide future budget requests and

1:01:54priorities. Following the public

1:01:56hearing, Paul and I will be

1:01:57available for questions.

1:01:59>> Thank you, Ms. Mormon.

1:02:01So, now is the time for the public

1:02:02hearing for the open space

1:02:08Imagine Cary plan enrich

1:02:10update.

1:02:11And I'll call on the clerk first to read

1:02:14any written comments and call on any

1:02:16call in speakers or registered speakers.

1:02:19>> We had one written comment. That comment

1:02:21was emailed to Council prior to the

1:02:22meeting, provided to Council upon

1:02:24arrival, and attached to the online

1:02:25agenda.

1:02:27We had one registered speaker, and it's

1:02:29in person, Sarah Martin.

1:02:40>> Good evening, friends.

1:02:42My name is Sarah Martin, and I currently

1:02:44serve as the chair of the Town of Cary

1:02:47Parks, Recreation, and Cultural

1:02:48Resources Advisory Board.

1:02:51I'm also a member of the Wake County

1:02:54Open Space and Parks Advisory Committee.

1:02:58And I rise this evening to support the

1:03:00adoption of Cary's newest

1:03:03uh draft of an open space plan.

1:03:06I asked staff to look back at our

1:03:09minutes of previous PRCR Advisory Board

1:03:13meetings over the

1:03:14the past 4 years to determine how much

1:03:17time we had spent working on this

1:03:20matter.

1:03:21Open space plan was the primary focus of

1:03:24three board meetings.

1:03:26Additionally, it was referenced during

1:03:29presentations and discussions about the

1:03:31PRCR

1:03:32system plan eight times.

1:03:35And

1:03:37the Imagine Cary Community Plan three

1:03:39times. So, we've spent quite a bit of

1:03:42time during our monthly advisory board

1:03:44meetings talking about this open space

1:03:46plan and how it relates to other issues

1:03:49in Cary.

1:03:52Cary was actually the first municipal

1:03:54government in Wake County to complete an

1:03:57open space plan.

1:03:58That was adopted on August 23rd, 2001.

1:04:03Wake County then adopted a consolidated

1:04:06open space plan in March, 2003.

1:04:11And then, they revised that again in

1:04:13September of 2006.

1:04:16That Wake County open space plan

1:04:19urges every municipality and all of Wake

1:04:22County to promote protection of a

1:04:25minimum of 30%

1:04:28of Wake County's land and water as

1:04:31permanent open space.

1:04:33And this balances the

1:04:36ecological carrying capacity of our land

1:04:38as well as balancing the developed and

1:04:41undeveloped land in our community.

1:04:45I really appreciate the detail that

1:04:47Leslie went into about the definition of

1:04:50open space and how Cary goes through

1:04:52that. I will say that Wake County and

1:04:54other municipalities within Wake County

1:04:57may use slightly different words in

1:04:59defining open space, but we are all

1:05:02looking at the same thing. As this

1:05:04region as a whole continues to grow at

1:05:09just

1:05:10unbelievable uh rates.

1:05:13So,

1:05:14we are hoping that we will be able to

1:05:17maintain at least a minimum 30% of Cary

1:05:22as being protected open space, and I was

1:05:25thrilled that she had all of those

1:05:27statistics included within her

1:05:29presentation.

1:05:31I just want to take a moment to again

1:05:35urge the adoption of this plan. It has

1:05:37been well thought through.

1:05:40You have looked at it on numerous

1:05:42occasions as well.

1:05:44And I look forward to Cary's continuous

1:05:46focus on open space and the benefits

1:05:49that it provides to our families and

1:05:51citizens. Thank you.

1:05:53>> Thank you.

1:05:54>> No additional registered speakers.

1:05:56>> If you're in the audience and would like

1:05:58to speak at this public hearing, now is

1:06:00your opportunity. Anyone to speak at

1:06:02this public hearing?

1:06:04Seeing no one, I'll close the public

1:06:06hearing open it on up to council members

1:06:08for questions or comments.

1:06:11>> I would just say that [clears throat] as

1:06:12a liaison for parks and recreation

1:06:15board, I'm very proud of the work that

1:06:18the board has done on this front, and

1:06:21this has been the central focus for the

1:06:23discussions. Um

1:06:26the commitment that Cary holds towards

1:06:29preserving the space in the community, I

1:06:31think it's commendable, and um

1:06:34I hope the board um

1:06:37the the council today considers um

1:06:39uh

1:06:41adopting

1:06:42the the plan.

1:06:45Do you have anything else?

1:06:46>> Other comments?

1:06:47>> Uh

1:06:49if if there's one topic that I'm

1:06:50particularly passionate about, and that

1:06:53I am completely content to be a broken

1:06:56record on and champion, it is our green

1:06:59spaces, our open spaces, our wildlife

1:07:01habitat. So, I don't think it is any

1:07:04surprise to staff or my council

1:07:06colleagues, and hopefully to the Cary

1:07:08constituents as well that your

1:07:11environmental advisory board staff

1:07:12liaison wholeheartedly supports this.

1:07:17>> Bella, were you saying something, too?

1:07:18>> Oh, yeah. I I

1:07:20This presentation is great. I really

1:07:22love that. Thanks to the PRC

1:07:24advisory board, too. And the staff had

1:07:27put a lot of efforts on this.

1:07:29And I was like, who designed the maps?

1:07:32Like, I was I love that. It's a

1:07:36beautiful stuff. Yeah.

1:07:38They did a great job. Thank you.

1:07:40>> Anyone else?

1:07:41>> Yeah, I just I just forgot to

1:07:43I just forgot to thank Sarah for coming

1:07:45today and speaking. It's always a

1:07:47pleasure to hear from you. Thank you so

1:07:49much.

1:07:50>> Great. I just want to thank you, Ms.

1:07:52Mormon. This is the second time I've

1:07:53seen you speak specifically about how

1:07:58um

1:07:59what open space really is. I think what

1:08:01most people think, and I did until the

1:08:03first time you enlightened me, I thought

1:08:05open space was a field or a patch of

1:08:07woods, and that's that, and as you get a

1:08:10bunch of those and you're doing really

1:08:11well,

1:08:12right?

1:08:13Now I understand so much better,

1:08:15especially from your I love a good

1:08:17illustration, that open space should

1:08:19connect. Now I do I really do see it

1:08:22differently. Um I I understand better

1:08:25the wildlife corridors and why it's

1:08:28better for six of my neighbors to all

1:08:30have natural areas in our yards instead

1:08:32of just one or just me and and and I

1:08:35also better understand when I'm looking

1:08:37at that map why um

1:08:40regionally we shouldn't hyper-develop

1:08:42one area and ignore, you know, any path

1:08:45from A to B for animals and plants and

1:08:49all that, but what I didn't understand

1:08:51until the last presentation you did and

1:08:55then this one is how important it is

1:08:56that plants and water be able to move

1:08:59through these corridors as well. So, I

1:09:01just want to thank you. You took someone

1:09:04who thought she knew a thing or two,

1:09:06showed me I didn't, and then taught me

1:09:09the thing or two I thought I knew

1:09:10initially. So, I just want to thank you

1:09:12for that. It's been extremely enli-

1:09:14enlightening.

1:09:15>> Success.

1:09:16>> Yeah, I guess it since we're all uh

1:09:18commenting, there are two things that

1:09:19really stood out to me.

1:09:21Um one was the 42% open space

1:09:25and equating that to about 34

1:09:28square miles.

1:09:30So, 34.6 or something like that, which

1:09:34um is is not an insignificant number.

1:09:38Um so, I was glad to see that. The other

1:09:41I very much aligned with the whole

1:09:43ecological corridor. I was thinking of

1:09:45it as hallways connecting rooms in a

1:09:47house, right? And those ecological

1:09:50corridors are really important. I also

1:09:53want to make a shout-out to the the way

1:09:55that the open space plan is written. I

1:09:58mean,

1:10:00the average nerd who might like it. It's

1:10:02really well written because, you know,

1:10:04there's a nice, you know, section on

1:10:06tree canopy. There's a whole page on

1:10:08invasive species. So, for those of you

1:10:10who came talk about that, um

1:10:13it looks like we are making some

1:10:17um alignment there and maybe and

1:10:18hopefully we'll we'll get some

1:10:19additional partnership. But, you know,

1:10:21117 pages is not um

1:10:24>> [clears throat]

1:10:24>> generally a light read, but it was

1:10:26actually kind of a fun read because I

1:10:28felt like

1:10:29Councilmember Johnson was saying, as I

1:10:31was reading it, I was learning something

1:10:33along the way. So, I I really like how

1:10:36you all talked about like the uninvited

1:10:37guests of of uh invasive species and

1:10:40English ivy along the way of also

1:10:44talking about why ecological corridors

1:10:46are so important. So, really great

1:10:48really great job.

1:10:51>> Thanks, everyone. This will next go Oh,

1:10:54I'm sorry.

1:10:54>> Well, I'm just reiterating the same

1:10:56thing, but as you said, everybody else

1:10:58has commented, so I feel like I need to

1:10:59say something also.

1:11:00>> [laughter]

1:11:01>> Um but um Leslie, when you came and

1:11:04presented at the Historic Preservation

1:11:06Commission recently,

1:11:08like all week long I've been thinking

1:11:10about my backyard being stepping stone

1:11:13as I watch the deer run from one patch

1:11:16of woods over here through my

1:11:18heavily tree

1:11:21>> Treed?

1:11:21>> Treed.

1:11:22yard um and into the next patch. And as

1:11:26as Council Member Cole Johnson said, I

1:11:29also thought the open space was the

1:11:33what we used to call the rugby field

1:11:34down from where we live, but it's it's

1:11:37my backyard also. And um it it

1:11:41today feels like such a a moment of

1:11:44it's all feels so relevant, um which I

1:11:46think is what we need people to feel is

1:11:48how relevant it is to them and that

1:11:51English ivy I need to go tackle again.

1:11:54>> Me, too.

1:11:55>> Me, too.

1:11:56>> Anyone else? Thanks, everyone. This will

1:11:58next go to our Planning and Zoning Board

1:12:00for their review and their feedback

1:12:02before returning to Council for

1:12:04consideration at a future date. Thank

1:12:06you, Ms. Moore.

1:12:08We now move to our first discussion

1:12:10item, Green Level Church

1:12:13at Mills Farm Rezoning. Planning Manager

1:12:15Aaron Puckett will present the item and

1:12:17Council may take action. Ms. Puckett.

1:12:21>> Thank you and good evening, Council.

1:12:23This is a request to rezone

1:12:24approximately 11 acres located along the

1:12:27eastern side of Green Level Church Road

1:12:29and within the Green Level Special

1:12:31Planning Area.

1:12:32The site may look familiar to some of

1:12:34you as there was a public hearing held

1:12:36in 2022.

1:12:38However, as this case has been in

1:12:39process for several years and some of

1:12:41you were not on Council at the time of

1:12:43the public hearing, I do want to take a

1:12:45moment to review a brief history of the

1:12:46case so far.

1:12:50Staff hosted a neighborhood meeting for

1:12:52this request in July of 2022.

1:12:56And a public hearing was held for this

1:12:57item at your November 2022 meeting.

1:13:01The planning and zoning board then

1:13:02reviewed the request in February of

1:13:042023.

1:13:06At that time, the board found the

1:13:07request inconsistent with the plan by a

1:13:10vote of five to four,

1:13:11citing the use and density as key

1:13:13factors in their decision.

1:13:16At your July 2026 meeting, just a few

1:13:18months ago, Council referred the case

1:13:20back to the planning and board for

1:13:22additional consideration at the

1:13:24applicant's request, as they were

1:13:26proposing a change to the use and

1:13:28several other zoning conditions.

1:13:31And at their meeting in August, the

1:13:32planning and zoning board found the

1:13:34request consistent with the plan by a

1:13:36vote of five to one.

1:13:40The site consists of four parcels and is

1:13:42located between the Sutherland

1:13:44neighborhood to the south and the

1:13:45Toscana neighborhood to the north.

1:13:49According to Cary's GIS, there is a

1:13:51potential stream buffer crossing the

1:13:52property. Field verification of such

1:13:54features is required at time of

1:13:56development plan review.

1:13:59The site is located in close proximity

1:14:01to Thomas Brooks Park, which is to the

1:14:02northeast. There is future street side

1:14:05trail proposed along both the Mills Farm

1:14:07Road extension as well as Green Level

1:14:09Church Road along the site frontage.

1:14:11And this would help complete the current

1:14:13gap between trail that is north and

1:14:14south of the site.

1:14:17The site is also located within the

1:14:19Green Level Special Planning Area in the

1:14:21neighborhoods east of Flat Branch

1:14:23subarea, as shown on this map with the

1:14:25blue star.

1:14:27This area begins the gradual downward

1:14:28transition in density

1:14:30moving west from NC 540 towards Chatham

1:14:32County, and recommends that new

1:14:34developments be shielded from view of

1:14:36thoroughfares and collectors via a

1:14:38clustered development pattern, preserve

1:14:40open space, integrate elements that

1:14:43hearken back to the historic rural

1:14:44character of the area, and limit the

1:14:47aggregate density of the sub district to

1:14:49a maximum of three units per acre.

1:14:53The rezoning proposes a density of 3.5

1:14:56units per acre, which is higher than the

1:14:58recommended aggregate of three,

1:15:00and exceeds the density of other

1:15:01subdivisions in Green Level to date.

1:15:04Currently developed sites within

1:15:05neighborhoods east of Flat Branch, which

1:15:07is the area outlined on this slide,

1:15:10range from about 1.1 to 2.7 units per

1:15:13acre, which means that the aggregate

1:15:15density of the developed areas of the

1:15:17sub district would remain below three

1:15:19units per acre if this rezoning is

1:15:21approved, even at this higher density.

1:15:26The site is currently zoned residential

1:15:2740,

1:15:29and the applicant proposes a rezoning to

1:15:31transitional residential conditional use

1:15:33or TRC.

1:15:36The applicant has offered several zoning

1:15:37conditions. These include limiting

1:15:39development of the site to a maximum of

1:15:4139 dwellings, and this was reduced from

1:15:4444 dwellings, which was proposed at the

1:15:46time of the public hearing.

1:15:49Limiting uses to detached dwellings and

1:15:51associated neighborhood recreation and

1:15:53accessory uses, previously townhouses

1:15:56were also proposed.

1:15:58Providing a minimum of 7,200 square feet

1:16:01of community gathering space, which is

1:16:02triple the LDO requirement.

1:16:05Providing a 60-ft wide streetscape along

1:16:08Green Level Church Road, which may be

1:16:10averaged.

1:16:11This does exceed the LDO requirement by

1:16:1310 ft, and the applicant proposes

1:16:15additional plantings within this

1:16:17streetscape.

1:16:20Providing a 30-ft type B buffer along

1:16:22the eastern property line. This will

1:16:24meet or exceed the LDO minimum,

1:16:26depending on the lot size ultimately

1:16:28developed.

1:16:30Providing an EV charging ready

1:16:31receptacle for each unit.

1:16:34Providing a decorative wood fence

1:16:36feature at Mills Farm Road and Green

1:16:37Level Church Road, to be approved by

1:16:39planning staff for consistency with the

1:16:41rural look of the area and with at least

1:16:44five additional native trees in

1:16:45proximity to the fence.

1:16:49Conditions further commit to calculating

1:16:50lot size separately from any stream

1:16:52buffers,

1:16:54providing a 65-ft building setback from

1:16:56the closest lots in Sutherland to the

1:16:58south with some additional open space in

1:17:00between,

1:17:02clarifying no direct driveway access to

1:17:04Mills Farm Road, which is a collector,

1:17:07and include architectural conditions

1:17:09such as a mix of building materials on

1:17:11front facades, pitched roofs, and a

1:17:13prohibition on vinyl siding, as well as

1:17:15two car garages for all units, in

1:17:17addition to a number of other more

1:17:19minimal architectural treatments which

1:17:21were included in the staff report.

1:17:25Finally, several conditions have been

1:17:26added to address road improvements,

1:17:28including providing sidewalk on both

1:17:30sides of all streets built with

1:17:32development of the site. This is

1:17:33consistent with conditions offered by

1:17:35the recent rezoning to the east.

1:17:39Restriping the existing northbound right

1:17:41turn lane into Carpen Lane to provide

1:17:44additional storage and bring it into

1:17:45compliance with today's standards.

1:17:48Striping the widened pavement of the

1:17:50Green Level Church Road frontage south

1:17:52of the proposed Mills Farm Road

1:17:53intersection, which would provide a

1:17:55northbound right turn lane onto Mills

1:17:57Farm Road.

1:17:59And providing additional street lighting

1:18:00along the east side of Green Level

1:18:02Church Road from the site's northern

1:18:04property line to Carpen Lane.

1:18:08At their meeting in August, the Planning

1:18:10and Zoning Board considered the revised

1:18:12request, and they found it consistent

1:18:14with the Imagine Cary Community Plan by

1:18:16a vote of five to one.

1:18:18The one board member who voted against

1:18:19consistency noted that density was one

1:18:22of the largest concerns when the item

1:18:24came before the board previously, and

1:18:26this had not been fully addressed, so

1:18:27cannot be considered fully consistent

1:18:29with plan policies.

1:18:32Following the Planning and Zoning Board,

1:18:34the applicant clarified a condition

1:18:36related to EV charging receptacles to

1:18:38note a minimum amperage and added a

1:18:40commitment to a 30-ft type B buffer

1:18:42along the eastern property line.

1:18:44This buffer is the required LDO buffer

1:18:46today, but could otherwise be less in

1:18:49the future without this condition

1:18:51depending on the lot size developed and

1:18:53the timing of the development to the

1:18:54east.

1:18:58Staff finds that the request supports or

1:19:00partially supports some live, shape,

1:19:02engage, move, and enrich policies.

1:19:06The request does provide housing on an

1:19:07infill site.

1:19:09Regarding transitions, the proposed

1:19:11density is higher than that of

1:19:12surrounding neighborhoods.

1:19:14We do note the construction of the Mills

1:19:15Farm Road extension will naturally

1:19:17provide some separation between this

1:19:19site and properties to the south.

1:19:22Construction of Mills Farm Road, which

1:19:23will include street side trail, is

1:19:26required by the LDO and supports

1:19:28connectivity goals of the engage and

1:19:29move chapters.

1:19:31And pre-wiring for electric vehicles and

1:19:34increased streetscape

1:19:36help to modestly address some enrich

1:19:38policies.

1:19:40Regarding the Green Level Special

1:19:41Planning Area,

1:19:43the maximum gross site site density

1:19:45proposed is higher than the aggregate

1:19:47maximum density recommended for

1:19:49neighborhoods east of Flat Branch. The

1:19:51small site acreage means that the

1:19:52proposed density will not substantially

1:19:54increase the overall density of this

1:19:56subarea.

1:19:58But three units per acre would be more

1:20:00directly consistent with the plan and

1:20:02existing patterns of development.

1:20:05The small site and the existing site

1:20:07constraints, along with the slightly

1:20:09increased streetscape, do help with

1:20:11screening of the sensor development.

1:20:13Conditions do not explicitly address

1:20:15clustering.

1:20:16But on balance, staff finds the request

1:20:18is consistent with more policies than

1:20:20not, and we recommend approval.

1:20:22>> [snorts]

1:20:24>> This concludes my presentation, and I'm

1:20:25happy to answer questions.

1:20:28>> Thank you.

1:20:30Excuse me.

1:20:31I'd open it up to council members for

1:20:33questions or comments.

1:20:36Or if you're ready for a motion,

1:20:38go for that.

1:20:42>> This project is in my district, so I'll

1:20:44just um

1:20:46kind of make a quick comment. I cannot

1:20:49support this project because um of the

1:20:51density. It is um right adjacent to It's

1:20:55really borderline with historic

1:20:57district, and this density is not

1:21:01uh appropriate for that area. Um

1:21:05especially when there was a lot of

1:21:07feedback that we received from the

1:21:09neighbors. Um

1:21:11and it's an ongoing issue.

1:21:13When I spoke to the planning staff, they

1:21:15did mention to me that the drop is not

1:21:18that huge. It's only three units, but I

1:21:20think that's a ongoing conversation with

1:21:23the applicant, and they're not willing

1:21:24to

1:21:25um good on by three more units. So,

1:21:28this is my decision.

1:21:30>> Okay.

1:21:31Other comments, questions, motion?

1:21:34>> I just I've got one quick clarifying

1:21:36question. So, the stream buffer

1:21:39in general, um

1:21:40when we see a map and there's a stream

1:21:43buffer indicated,

1:21:44uh

1:21:45are we

1:21:46when we indicate the stream buffer, are

1:21:48we saying there is an ish stream buffer

1:21:52there, and we need to get on site and do

1:21:55some kind of very um

1:21:58specific surveying or something to

1:22:00identify exactly where it is, how wide

1:22:03it might be? Uh is it sometimes there is

1:22:05or there isn't?

1:22:06>> Correct. So, what's shown on our maps

1:22:08are our current best guess. Um the

1:22:11applicant, if this is approved at time

1:22:13of development plan, would have to have

1:22:15that surveyed, and they would have a

1:22:16buffer determination done. So, from very

1:22:19preliminary information that we have

1:22:20from the applicant, I believe they had

1:22:22had a determination potentially done in

1:22:24the past, um or have done some

1:22:26preliminary surveying that shows that

1:22:28they believe the stream buffer maybe

1:22:29only goes like halfway up into the site.

1:22:32Um, so it could be slightly different

1:22:34than what's shown on the map. The the

1:22:35GIS is not exact, but that would be

1:22:38required at time of development plan

1:22:39review and our staff to review that to

1:22:41confirm.

1:22:42>> Yeah, I just follow up.

1:22:43>> Absolutely.

1:22:44>> So, is this a question of whether it's

1:22:46an intermittent stream or not?

1:22:49Is that going to determine the buffer?

1:22:51>> I don't know the exact details. Um,

1:22:54but yes, presumably there is a stream

1:22:56there. It's shown as a buffered feature.

1:22:58They would need to confirm whether it is

1:22:59a buffered feature or not.

1:23:00>> I just wanted to make sure I I really

1:23:02understood that because it, you know,

1:23:05I I believe that if that is fully a

1:23:09buffer as it appears on the GIS,

1:23:11realistically they wouldn't be able to

1:23:13build as many homes as they would be

1:23:15approved for.

1:23:17Correct?

1:23:18>> Correct. Yes. And again, I believe from

1:23:20what they've shared with us, they

1:23:21believe it's probably smaller or shorter

1:23:24north to south than what's shown there.

1:23:26Um, that they'll be be able to develop

1:23:28more of that northern part of the site

1:23:30than the stream buffer would otherwise

1:23:31show. But we would have to confirm that

1:23:33at development plan.

1:23:34>> And we just won't know that until then.

1:23:35I appreciate the clarity. Thank you.

1:23:38>> So, I do have a follow-up question. Um,

1:23:41so in case if there is um, a buffer and

1:23:43they, you know, they're not able to

1:23:45build on the entire

1:23:48um, available land,

1:23:51what is the commitment for minimum lot

1:23:53size here?

1:23:55>> So, for transitional residential, the

1:23:57minimum lot size is 5,000 square feet.

1:23:59So, they're they're fairly small lots.

1:24:03>> And um, you mentioned Vistoscana and

1:24:06Sutherland, what is the minimum lot

1:24:09size?

1:24:09>> So, they are R40, but they developed

1:24:12under the conservation residential

1:24:14overlay district, which means they are

1:24:16slightly smaller. I believe the ones

1:24:18that you see closest there in Sutherland

1:24:20are closer to about a quarter acre. I

1:24:23would have to double-check the exact

1:24:24acreage there, but you can go smaller if

1:24:26you use that conservation residential

1:24:28overlay because you're trading it off by

1:24:30preserving large swaths of open space.

1:24:33>> Okay.

1:24:34So, uh I have a question. Uh just

1:24:37double-confirm

1:24:38uh the condition is maximum 39 detached

1:24:42dwellings.

1:24:43>> Correct.

1:24:43>> Even even we approve that, if the

1:24:45drawing

1:24:47come out to be only 33 or 35, that's the

1:24:50maximum they could build. So, the

1:24:53builder developer could have more room

1:24:56to consider

1:24:58how many dwellings they are going to

1:24:59build. Is that correct?

1:25:01>> Yes, so 39 would be the maximum, and

1:25:03that's not uncommon that they'll sort of

1:25:06ask for the most they think they can fit

1:25:08when they're looking at a probably 2D

1:25:10layout of the site, and once they

1:25:11actually get into topography and and

1:25:14grading and buffer features and things

1:25:16of that nature, it's possible that the

1:25:18the number of lots would drop.

1:25:21>> And they uh take the town homes out of

1:25:24the plan.

1:25:25>> Correct. Yes, town homes are no longer

1:25:28um

1:25:28a requested use type.

1:25:30>> And the change from uh after the

1:25:33planning zoning board like approve the

1:25:36proposal,

1:25:37I mean, uh they they have changed the uh

1:25:39EV charging.

1:25:41Will could you um

1:25:43how me understand, will they cost more

1:25:45for the developers?

1:25:47>> Not necessarily. So, the way the

1:25:49condition was initially written, um it

1:25:51only spoke to volts. And I'm not an

1:25:54electrical engineer, but my

1:25:55understanding is that really for EV

1:25:57charging, you should have a voltage and

1:25:59an amperage.

1:26:01Um

1:26:02because our LDO does not give us any

1:26:04guidance on EV charging, we've typically

1:26:06let the market kind of determine, and we

1:26:09accept the zoning condition that they

1:26:10give us what they think the um the

1:26:13correct voltage or amperage is. Um in

1:26:16this case, we had a planning and zoning

1:26:18board member specifically ask, you know,

1:26:20if you're going to offer certain bolts,

1:26:22you should offer amps as well. So, they

1:26:24that's really more of a clarification

1:26:26than anything.

1:26:27>> thank you. I think that will help a lot

1:26:29of residents driving EV cars.

1:26:33Cuz I use that at home.

1:26:35Thank you.

1:26:36>> One more question. So, if there's a

1:26:37buffer

1:26:39um, and the condition says that at

1:26:41maximum 39 detached dwellings, they

1:26:43could still build 39 units um, in the

1:26:47area where it's like they can build. Is

1:26:50that correct?

1:26:51>> They cannot plat lots into the buffer,

1:26:53and they also have written themselves a

1:26:54condition to not count the buffer area

1:26:57towards lot size, which state law

1:26:59otherwise allows you to do. So, 39 is

1:27:02the maximum. If that buffer feature is

1:27:05as shown on the map, it's quite possible

1:27:07they could get fewer. Um, if the buffer

1:27:09is closer to what they have kind of

1:27:11shown us in early stages, which is it's

1:27:14much shorter um, as far north as it

1:27:16goes,

1:27:17potentially they could get closer to

1:27:19that 39. We won't know until we see an

1:27:22engineered site layout what can actually

1:27:24be fit there.

1:27:26>> Okay. Thank you.

1:27:27>> Aaron.

1:27:28>> Uh, sorry.

1:27:30Can you walk us through how to think of

1:27:33this notion of aggregate density? Uh,

1:27:36cuz this was really the crux of the

1:27:39planning and zoning conversation, and I

1:27:42believe that was really the determining

1:27:45factor in the one dissenting vote as

1:27:47well. You know, they had a robust

1:27:49conversation about what aggregate means

1:27:53and averaging density.

1:27:55Uh, is you know, it would be easy to

1:27:57look at the proposed density and compare

1:28:00it to the aggregate and say, "Well, it

1:28:02exceeds that density."

1:28:05But, as an aggregate, it's not a maximum

1:28:08density for every parcel. It is an

1:28:11average, and so, you know, the math of

1:28:14it would be that some would potentially

1:28:17exceed that aggregate, and then you

1:28:20would average out to it. So, some would

1:28:22be below, some would be above. So, just

1:28:24by virtue of being above, depending on

1:28:27your interpretation, your reading of it,

1:28:29doesn't necessarily mean

1:28:31the proposed density is misaligned. Uh

1:28:35Can Can you Can you talk about that

1:28:37conceptually, and have I framed that

1:28:39correctly?

1:28:40>> Yes, you almost don't need me to, but

1:28:41>> [laughter]

1:28:42>> it's a great explanation.

1:28:44But, you're absolutely right. That this

1:28:46area can still easily hit the aggregate

1:28:49if we have some of these smaller sites

1:28:51or some that don't go too far over. It's

1:28:54just a matter of how do we balance that

1:28:56and then also consider it amongst all of

1:28:58the other policies. Is that higher

1:29:00density and smaller lot size an okay

1:29:02transition here? Those are the types of

1:29:04questions that are

1:29:06again, ultimately staff found it was

1:29:08consistent, but would maybe have been

1:29:10more

1:29:11directly consistent with all policies if

1:29:14it met sort of both those transitions

1:29:16and that that density. But, you hit the

1:29:18nail on the head. It is absolutely

1:29:20possible that multiple developments,

1:29:22especially ones that are this small,

1:29:24could go three and a half, four units

1:29:26per acre, and will still be well within

1:29:28that aggregate because it is an

1:29:30area-wide calculation.

1:29:33>> And it's hard to find a single-family

1:29:35rezoning now. Mostly are apartments. So,

1:29:39really I'm glad to see something like

1:29:41for single families.

1:29:44>> I just have uh two questions. One is um

1:29:46we There was a mention about the

1:29:48historic district that abuts this.

1:29:50Besides the split rail fence, is there

1:29:54anything else that

1:29:56um would align with a historic district?

1:30:00And if not, should there be, or or have

1:30:04we ever provided guidance to

1:30:06development. This particular location is

1:30:10unique because it is adjacent to our

1:30:12historic district and also what's in the

1:30:14historic district is the Sutherland

1:30:16neighborhood that you see there, which

1:30:17is a more recent development.

1:30:19So it's it feels a little bit different

1:30:22than something like being in the heart

1:30:24of Carpenter where you really want

1:30:25architecture that reflects those

1:30:27buildings.

1:30:29So for better or worse the sort of split

1:30:32rail fence with some extra native

1:30:33plantings and that little sort of rural

1:30:35wink has been something that's been done

1:30:38with other projects in the area like the

1:30:40Mills Farm Road projects you see in the

1:30:41R12 sort of southwest of this site.

1:30:46And again this has been in process for

1:30:47some time. That is a condition that

1:30:49dates back to 2022.

1:30:51There wasn't anything that I think

1:30:54flagged in staff's mind of really being

1:30:56needed here beyond that just based on

1:30:59kind of the historic district being what

1:31:01it is to the south. It's not directly

1:31:03adjacent to a historic building or

1:31:04something like that. But that is

1:31:06certainly something that

1:31:09you know, doors open for you to comment

1:31:11on. But but that's where we ultimately

1:31:13landed just just based on some precedent

1:31:15I think from other sites in this area.

1:31:17>> Right. I remember when we used to have

1:31:19conservation district and we thankfully

1:31:22moved away from the the swales and all

1:31:26of that that were in some of the

1:31:28neighborhoods

1:31:30after we realized that residents

1:31:32actually missed the curb and gutter and

1:31:34did not prefer the swales in their front

1:31:36yards after all. It was a good idea

1:31:39but we moved away. What one other

1:31:41question

1:31:43and

1:31:44it might be an applicant question. I've

1:31:45heard various people talk about what is

1:31:48possible size-wise to build on 11 acres

1:31:52given the stream buffers. We've all

1:31:53alluded to that. And I also see the

1:31:56develop or the applicants desire

1:32:02to to have the largest number that they

1:32:04might possibly build to, which is 39. Do

1:32:08we actually know if 39 will fit?

1:32:11>> We don't yet. So, we've not seen an

1:32:13engineered site layout. We've seen some

1:32:15very rough high-level initial sort of

1:32:18layouts that got close to I think like

1:32:2033 or so. Um but again, those those

1:32:24haven't been engineered. Our engineers

1:32:25haven't reviewed them. So, I can't say

1:32:28with certainty whether someone could

1:32:30hypothetically fit in 39 if everything

1:32:33works out for the best, if the stream

1:32:34buffer is small.

1:32:36Um you know, depending on the ultimate

1:32:37alignment of Mills Farm Road, but there

1:32:39are a lot of constraints on this site.

1:32:41If I was to guess, I would guess they

1:32:42will get fewer than 39 just based on

1:32:44past development review experience, but

1:32:46we can't say that for certain.

1:32:48>> Understood. Cuz if it was closer to 34,

1:32:5035, it would be exactly at three

1:32:54>> I think 33 would get them to three

1:32:57units.

1:32:58>> Three. So, it would be closer. So,

1:33:00um it's a shame if it could really only

1:33:03do 34 and it you know, and um

1:33:07and what we really hoped for was three.

1:33:09It It's a shame that we didn't come in

1:33:11with 34 because then

1:33:13you know, we'd be aligned more closely

1:33:16to that aggregate number that we are

1:33:18hoping for, but but I appreciate your uh

1:33:22your guestimate of what you

1:33:25what you think might be, but I've heard

1:33:27many people say that 39 seemed a bit

1:33:29tight for that and

1:33:31>> We believe so.

1:33:33>> Okay. That's That's helpful to me. Thank

1:33:34you.

1:33:36>> We ready for a motion?

1:33:38>> I'm only happy to uh I move that we

1:33:41adopt the following documents attached

1:33:43to the online agenda, statement of

1:33:45consistency for 22 REZ-06 Green Level

1:33:48Church at Mills Farm Road, and the

1:33:51rezoning ordinance for 22 REZ-06 Green

1:33:53Level Church at Mills Farm Road.

1:33:55>> I'll second.

1:33:56>> There's a motion and a second.

1:33:57Discussion?

1:33:58All in favor, please say I.

1:34:00>> I.

1:34:01>> Those opposed?

1:34:02>> No.

1:34:02>> Me.

1:34:02>> No.

1:34:04>> No?

1:34:05>> No.

1:34:06>> No?

1:34:06>> No.

1:34:07>> No?

1:34:084-3.

1:34:11Motion passes. Sorry, 4-3.

1:34:13>> Hold on.

1:34:15Just the nose [clears throat] again, if

1:34:16you could raise your hand.

1:34:17Okay.

1:34:18Thank you.

1:34:20>> Thank you.

1:34:22We now move to our second

1:34:27Are we taking

1:34:29second and third items together?

1:34:31>> And I'll do the one that was pulled from

1:34:33the consent

1:34:33>> second, third, and the pulled item all

1:34:34together.

1:34:35>> Yep.

1:34:36>> [clears throat]

1:34:36>> So, having said that,

1:34:38uh I'll recognize Interim Manager Russ

1:34:40Overby.

1:34:40>> Thank you for clarifying. Good evening,

1:34:42Mayor and Council. Cary is committed to

1:34:43serving our community with integrity,

1:34:45accountability, and excellence,

1:34:47and we'll keep doing that at Council

1:34:49meetings, talking about how we are

1:34:50moving forward.

1:34:53Um so, tonight, there are three staff

1:34:55reports on the agenda related to the

1:34:56special commission report conducted by

1:34:58our independent law firm, Womble Bond

1:35:00Dickinson. And again, this includes the

1:35:02one pulled from consent agenda.

1:35:05Over the past 11 months, we have taken

1:35:06many steps to strengthen how our

1:35:08organization moves forward, supporting

1:35:10investigations by the NC Office of State

1:35:12Auditor, uh completing the first

1:35:14employee survey in more than 10 years,

1:35:16and directing an outside law firm to

1:35:18conduct an independent comprehensive

1:35:20review.

1:35:21This work has resulted in 20 uh 39

1:35:23recommendations, which are tracked on

1:35:25our Moving Forward Dashboard, and work

1:35:27is underway on all 39 recommendations.

1:35:31The special commission report, uh

1:35:33initiated at Council's direction,

1:35:35focused on comprehensive review of

1:35:36selected P-cards and reimbursements,

1:35:39financial reporting to Council, and the

1:35:41town's workplace environment. The report

1:35:43was presented to the Council in July

1:35:462026, and recommendations have been

1:35:48added to the Moving Forward Dashboard,

1:35:50and staff has begun working through the

1:35:52recommendations.

1:35:54Tonight, are three recommend recommended

1:35:57actions related to the town's workplace

1:35:59environment. Those include adopting a

1:36:01policy regarding employee surveys,

1:36:03amending the personnel ordinance to

1:36:05clarify the town manager's

1:36:07supervisory authority, and amending the

1:36:09budget ordinance regarding notification

1:36:11to council for

1:36:12position changes.

1:36:15Additionally, there are nine

1:36:16recommendations included in the special

1:36:18commission report that state the council

1:36:20shall direct the town manager. Tonight,

1:36:23we are bringing forward those nine

1:36:24recommendations through a staff report

1:36:26as a formal mechanism by the town by

1:36:28which council is officially

1:36:30um directing the interim manager to take

1:36:33action suggested in the special

1:36:35commission report. And I'll walk through

1:36:37these in greater detail in just a

1:36:38minute.

1:36:41>> [clears throat]

1:36:41>> The first recommendation for council is

1:36:43to adopt a policy related to employee

1:36:45surveys. The attached policy 192, a new

1:36:48policy, adopts the special commission

1:36:50report recommendations for surveying

1:36:52employees at least every 3 years.

1:36:55I'll It also addresses expectations of

1:36:57frequency, confidentiality, and

1:36:59anonymity, and reporting on

1:37:01accountability.

1:37:04We know that employee satisfaction is

1:37:06critical uh to high-performing

1:37:07organizations and ensuring our employees

1:37:09can serve our community with excellence.

1:37:12Cary is taking concrete steps to listen

1:37:14to employees

1:37:15um and a policy requiring the town

1:37:17manager to regularly administer an

1:37:19organization-wide

1:37:21survey as is an example of Cary is

1:37:22moving forward by ensuring Cary systems

1:37:25and culture reflect the standards of our

1:37:26community. Thank you for the council for

1:37:29funding the most recent employee survey,

1:37:31which occurred this year after more than

1:37:3210 years without one.

1:37:35Oops.

1:37:36Oops.

1:37:38Um while the policy adopts the special

1:37:40commission report recommendations of

1:37:42surveying employees at least every 3

1:37:44years, consistent with Cary's biennial

1:37:46survey uh residential surveys

1:37:48satisfaction survey practice, staff

1:37:50plans to conduct the next survey or

1:37:52surveys every 2 year and the next survey

1:37:54is anticipated in FY2028.

1:37:57This will also give us time to implement

1:37:59our supervisory advisory groups

1:38:01organizational priorities that have been

1:38:03worked on this summer by group of peers.

1:38:08The next item for Council's action

1:38:09tonight is to amend the personnel

1:38:11ordinance to clarify the town manager's

1:38:13supervisory authority. The personnel

1:38:15code ordinance is set as a set of

1:38:17ordinances within the town code. And the

1:38:20General Assembly defines the town

1:38:21manager as the chief administrator of

1:38:23the town and is responsible to the town

1:38:26council for administering all town

1:38:28affairs and responsible for directing

1:38:30and supervising administration of all

1:38:33town departments, offices, and agencies.

1:38:35The town manager also serves as the

1:38:38final authority for hiring, disciplinary

1:38:40action, and separation of employees. The

1:38:42proposed ordinance amendment makes this

1:38:44change as recommended in the commission

1:38:46report.

1:38:49The next recommendation recommended

1:38:51actions for Council is to amend the

1:38:52budget ordinance and require written

1:38:54notification by the manager to the

1:38:56Council of any modifications to

1:38:58positions, including justifications for

1:39:00all positions eliminated, modified, or

1:39:02repurposed. Additionally, this budget

1:39:05amendment corrects a type of typo

1:39:07typographical error and reflects the

1:39:09number of FTEs at the time of the budget

1:39:11adoption to be 1,353.

1:39:14Those two positions were a transit

1:39:16position

1:39:17and a new position in the clerk's office

1:39:19that was added mid-year FY2026

1:39:23that were included in the budget but not

1:39:24in the staffing document.

1:39:27Lastly, there are nine recommendations

1:39:29included in the special commission

1:39:31report that state Council should direct

1:39:33the town manager to take various

1:39:35actions. The staff report serves as the

1:39:38documentation and formal mechanism by

1:39:40which Council is officially directing

1:39:42the town manager to take various

1:39:44actions.

1:39:45Work teams have begun working on all of

1:39:47these items and when future actions

1:39:48associated with any of these

1:39:50recommendations require review or

1:39:52approval by council, staff will bring

1:39:54forward additional staff reports to the

1:39:56council.

1:39:58And again, I'll highlight our dashboard

1:40:00because with regards to all three

1:40:02investigative reports, I'm pleased to

1:40:03say that all recommendations are

1:40:05underway and residents can follow the

1:40:07progress of each on the moving forward

1:40:09dashboard. The actions tonight will

1:40:11result in three status changes. Two

1:40:13items will be moved to complete and

1:40:15another recommendation will move into

1:40:16the development category.

1:40:20So, in terms of next steps, uh staff

1:40:22will include funding for the next

1:40:23employee survey in the fiscal year 2028

1:40:26budget, develop a standard process for

1:40:28notifying council of position changes,

1:40:31and provide reports and information in

1:40:33all recommendations to council by the

1:40:36end of this fiscal year.

1:40:38So, with that, there are several

1:40:40recommendations uh for your approval

1:40:42tonight and I'll just read them. Uh

1:40:44adopt policy 192, an employee engagement

1:40:47survey, amend the personnel ordinance to

1:40:49clarify the town manager's role as chief

1:40:51administrator of the town, amend the

1:40:53budget ordinance to require written

1:40:55justification to council of any

1:40:57modifications to positions,

1:41:00and then direct to the town manager to

1:41:01take action on the uh Womble Bond

1:41:03Dickinson on the recommendations listed

1:41:06on this slide. Um I believe we will uh

1:41:09even our town attorney may help you do

1:41:11this in one recommendation if you'd

1:41:13like.

1:41:14>> Yes, you have motions at your seat, um

1:41:16options for you to choose from.

1:41:18>> And I'm happy to answer any questions if

1:41:19you have them.

1:41:20>> Questions? Comments?

1:41:22>> Just have one comment. I Did you say

1:41:25that your intent and plan is to do

1:41:28surveys every other year?

1:41:31>> Every other year.

1:41:32>> Every other year.

1:41:32>> Oh, I thought you said three.

1:41:33>> So,

1:41:34>> Two years, but kind of within two years.

1:41:36>> two years, but the policy says every

1:41:38three years.

1:41:39>> The policy as recommended by um the

1:41:42independent um

1:41:43investigator said within every three

1:41:46years.

1:41:47>> Within Yeah. I

1:41:48>> So, we're trying to do it sooner than

1:41:49that, but also allow enough time to

1:41:51maybe complete some of the initiatives

1:41:53from a prior year survey.

1:41:55>> Yeah. No, I I absolutely appreciate your

1:41:59intent to do it every other year. I

1:42:01mean, we do our

1:42:02resident biennial survey every other

1:42:04year.

1:42:05Um I

1:42:07From my perspective, three years is too

1:42:09long. Um we lot can happen in Look, a

1:42:13lot can happen in a year.

1:42:14Lot can happen in three years. If your

1:42:16intent is to do it every other year and

1:42:19matching it to the way we survey our

1:42:21residents, I would love to see that

1:42:24policy 192 would match your intent,

1:42:27which would be every two years.

1:42:29Um that's Besides that, I

1:42:32love how

1:42:34um how it was written, how we're

1:42:37making realization, making real what

1:42:40what the recommendations are saying, but

1:42:42that out of all of that, that would be

1:42:44my suggested update. Is to make sure

1:42:47that our intent um that the ordinance

1:42:50matches our intent.

1:42:51>> And could you comment on that? Is that

1:42:54that just extra cost or

1:42:56Um it's just it Well, it will cost for

1:42:58the survey, and we'd like to do that as

1:43:00part of a budget process. Uh but if

1:43:02that's your intent to make a change, I

1:43:04think we could walk you through, Lisa,

1:43:07some possible language to make that so

1:43:08that we could go ahead and adopt that

1:43:10tonight.

1:43:11And I'm pulling up our ordinance

1:43:12probably as Lisa is.

1:43:17Other questions?

1:43:20Comments?

1:43:21>> I don't know if anyone else would be

1:43:22open to that, but I would

1:43:24um love that your intent match the

1:43:26ordinance rather than

1:43:28say we're going to target three and then

1:43:30we might or not.

1:43:31>> I agree. Every 2 years

1:43:33feels to me

1:43:35more timely. [clears throat]

1:43:36Um 3 years seems to me like a

1:43:39significant amount of time between

1:43:42temperature checks as to the

1:43:45feelings and thoughts and morale among

1:43:47staff. I think we would um

1:43:50we had

1:43:52the repeated asks for a survey

1:43:56and heated.

1:43:57I can't even I can't even count how many

1:43:59times Council Member Bush brought this

1:44:01up

1:44:02since I joined Council a little over 4

1:44:04years ago. Had that been done

1:44:07there would have been things that we

1:44:09would have been aware of far in advance.

1:44:12Um and I think we probably

1:44:16>> would be in a different place.

1:44:17>> We'd be in a different place and I think

1:44:19now we have an opportunity to prevent

1:44:20that. That's a lot of times when there's

1:44:22problems, one of the hardest things to

1:44:24do is figure out how to prevent the

1:44:25problems. And I feel every 2 years feels

1:44:28more preventative. Every 3 3 years feels

1:44:32more

1:44:33reactive. So for that reason I support

1:44:36an amendment to to move it to every 2

1:44:38years as well as intended.

1:44:40>> Lisa, I have a question for you. So the

1:44:43policy probably says that you know the

1:44:44survey will be done every 3 years.

1:44:47But but it is subject to Council's um

1:44:51decision.

1:44:52Um we could say that we want this next

1:44:55year for for pulse check. Is that

1:44:58correct? Is there room for that?

1:45:02Um

1:45:02>> Yes, the wording right now is at least

1:45:04every 3 years. So that means it could be

1:45:07>> 1 year, 2 year, or 3 year. Got it.

1:45:09>> And if and then the suggestion probably

1:45:11is just to change that to at least every

1:45:132 years if if you'd like.

1:45:16>> Yeah, I I would love to echo with um

1:45:18Mayor Pro Tem Bush and uh Council Member

1:45:21Council Johnson cuz I feel the

1:45:24organization's culture is the most

1:45:26important thing. And as so many years,

1:45:29over 100 years, carried just grows so

1:45:32well and plans so well just because the

1:45:34culture. And we delayed the previous

1:45:38past couple of years survey and we have

1:45:42take the pain already, so we prevent

1:45:44that.

1:45:45>> 10 years.

1:45:45>> Yeah, 10 years. We didn't do it.

1:45:47>> That's uh we learned the lesson. Now we

1:45:50need to change and match the policy with

1:45:53our practice.

1:45:54Agreed.

1:45:56>> Any other comments? Are we ready for a

1:45:58motion?

1:45:58>> I can do the motion.

1:46:00>> Okay.

1:46:01>> So I will do it with the amendment that

1:46:04you mentioned. I move to approve the

1:46:06following actions.

1:46:08Um

1:46:11Sorry.

1:46:12And do you want to take them one at a

1:46:13time?

1:46:14>> Do you I Do I do it all at once?

1:46:16>> statement.

1:46:17>> Do I do option three or option two on

1:46:19this list?

1:46:20>> Um so option three and I would just do

1:46:23the policy statement for now.

1:46:27>> Okay.

1:46:28>> And um if I could suggest

1:46:30um you could move to approve policy 192

1:46:33with one amendment to change the word

1:46:36three to two

1:46:38um in the first bullet point.

1:46:40>> Okay.

1:46:41I move to approve the following actions

1:46:43with the amendment specified below for

1:46:46um

1:46:47policy 192 employee engagement uh

1:46:50surveys with a modification of the

1:46:53timeline to be changed to two years um

1:46:57instead of three.

1:47:00All recommendations not specifically

1:47:02identified in this motion shall be

1:47:03handled or otherwise directed by

1:47:04council.

1:47:06>> Yeah, you can stop there. That's good.

1:47:07>> Okay. I'll second.

1:47:08>> There's a motion and a second.

1:47:09Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

1:47:12>> I.

1:47:12>> I.

1:47:12>> Any opposed? Motion's unanimous.

1:47:16Do we want to continue?

1:47:19Is there anything else?

1:47:19>> We have the personnel ordinance.

1:47:21>> Yep.

1:47:21>> Ordinance.

1:47:22>> Mhm. [clears throat]

1:47:24>> Did you want to keep going?

1:47:25It's okay, you can take the second one.

1:47:27>> [laughter]

1:47:28>> Um

1:47:29make motion to amend the personnel

1:47:31ordinance to clarify the town manager's

1:47:33role as the chief administrator of the

1:47:34town, which is the WBD 13, and to amend

1:47:39the budget ordinance to require written

1:47:41justification to council of any

1:47:42modifications to positions, which is

1:47:44also um WBD 16.

1:47:48>> There's a motion.

1:47:49>> Second.

1:47:49>> And second.

1:47:50All in favor, please say aye.

1:47:52>> Aye.

1:47:52>> Aye.

1:47:52>> Any opposed?

1:47:53Motion's unanimous.

1:47:56One more.

1:47:57Right?

1:47:58>> I'll put a motion.

1:47:59>> The one to

1:48:01>> I'll put the motion to direct the town

1:48:02manager to take action as prescribed by

1:48:04Womble Bond

1:48:06Dickinson WBD on recommendation

1:48:080307091014171920

1:48:13and 21, and to provide the reports and

1:48:15information noted in the recommendations

1:48:17to council by the end of fiscal year

1:48:192017.

1:48:20>> There's a motion.

1:48:22>> Second.

1:48:23>> And a second and a third. Discussion.

1:48:26All in favor, please say aye.

1:48:27>> Aye.

1:48:27>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

1:48:31And that concludes this item, and

1:48:33council needs to go into closed session.

1:48:36I would entertain a motion.

1:48:38>> Do we handle We have the one moved from

1:48:40consent.

1:48:41>> Um that was the very last one you just

1:48:43>> Okay, so we just didn't call it that.

1:48:45>> Yep.

1:48:46>> All right. Um pursuant to GS

1:48:48143-318-11-A-1-3 and 6, I move that we

1:48:49hold a closed session

1:48:53to consult with attorneys employed by

1:48:54and or retained by the town in order to

1:48:56preserve the attorney-client privilege

1:48:58between the town and the attorneys to

1:49:01prevent that the disclosure of

1:49:02information that is made privileged or

1:49:04confident confidential pursuant to the

1:49:06laws of the state are not considered a

1:49:08public record within the meaning of

1:49:09chapter 132 of the general statutes, and

1:49:12to consider the qualifications,

1:49:14competence, performance, character,

1:49:16fitness, conditions of appointment

1:49:19or conditions of initial employment of

1:49:20one or more individual public officers

1:49:22or employees.

1:49:23>> Second. Motion.

1:49:24>> Second.

1:49:25>> And a second. Discussion. All in favor,

1:49:27please say I.

1:49:28>> I.

1:49:28>> Any opposed? Motion carried unanimously,

1:49:30and the council will now move into

1:49:32closed session.

1:49:33One

1:53:09>> Mhm.

1:55:04>> Mhm.

2:00:49>> Mhm.

2:02:44>> Mhm.

2:04:39>> Mhm.

2:06:34>> Mhm.

2:09:32>> We'll reconvene our council meeting at

2:09:34this time.

2:09:35We have one other order of business this

2:09:38evening.

2:09:39And I would entertain a motion to

2:09:42appoint Russ Overton as our town

2:09:45manager.

2:09:46>> I'm happy to make that motion.

2:09:48>> I'd second that.

2:09:49>> Second that. Any discussion?

2:09:52I'm sure we have a lot to say.

2:09:54Um been a

2:09:56a tough

2:09:5711 months.

2:09:59To move this organization forward, which

2:10:01is a strong organization,

2:10:03we need somebody that knows Cary

2:10:06very, very well.

2:10:08Somebody that has the experience

2:10:11and the knowledge to keep Cary one of

2:10:13the best communities in the nation.

2:10:16And in my opinion, I can't imagine

2:10:19that there is anybody in this country

2:10:22that would measure up to our interim

2:10:24manager, hopefully to be our manager in

2:10:27just a few moments.

2:10:29So,

2:10:30thank you for being willing to do this.

2:10:32And thank you for my colleagues for

2:10:34tough 11 months.

2:10:36And before I pass it on to my

2:10:37colleagues,

2:10:39I have to talk to the staff a little bit

2:10:41first.

2:10:43What you've been through almost 11

2:10:45months to the day

2:10:47has been unimaginable.

2:10:50You are the reason that the town is one

2:10:54of the greatest places in America.

2:10:57You are the town's biggest asset.

2:11:02You're the main reason we're

2:11:03consistently recognized as one of the

2:11:06greatest places to live, work, and play

2:11:10in America.

2:11:11You've been doing your job

2:11:14plus additional work with all the audit

2:11:17stuff, public records stuff, etc., etc.

2:11:22To say say thank you isn't enough,

2:11:26but please know that this council

2:11:30is very grateful. Words cannot express

2:11:33what we feel about you.

2:11:36You are the best of the best.

2:11:39And with our new leader, I am hoping he

2:11:43will lead you to even greater things

2:11:45than this town has ever seen before.

2:11:48So, once again, thank you.

2:11:50And I'll turn it over to my colleagues

2:11:51for their thoughts and comments.

2:11:55>> Oh, well, I think you said it

2:11:58better than I expected and hoped.

2:12:01Because I you you said it from the

2:12:04heart. And I believe that one of this

2:12:08the things that we've all

2:12:11watched

2:12:12is the steadfast and thoughtful

2:12:14leadership that you have demonstrated

2:12:18through a very difficult time. You

2:12:20stepped up. You provided stability at a

2:12:23time

2:12:24of great concern.

2:12:27And I believe that staff

2:12:31and our citizens took notice of it.

2:12:35We received emails from many folks who

2:12:37said

2:12:39as much as Carrie has been in the news

2:12:43I love this place.

2:12:45And what you have shown is that you love

2:12:48it and that all of the staff as well

2:12:52love it as well. Um one thing I do also

2:12:55want to weigh in on is that in this time

2:12:58of uncertainty

2:13:00we have seen staff

2:13:03continuously

2:13:05and seamlessly keep the town humming.

2:13:09If you hadn't read the paper, you would

2:13:11not know that anything was different.

2:13:14And that's what

2:13:16being a public servant is is continually

2:13:19serving through thick and thin and

2:13:21through good times and bad. And you have

2:13:24led this team

2:13:25well for the last 11 months and I look

2:13:28forward to your continued leadership.

2:13:30>> Thank you.

2:13:33>> I always

2:13:34>> I definitely have thoughts. Um I feel

2:13:36like more than one of us is going to use

2:13:38the word steadfast. Uh that is if if I

2:13:41had to choose one um word in particular

2:13:44to describe how you led this

2:13:46organization out of absolute chaos. It

2:13:49was with a a steadfast approach. And I

2:13:52can't thank you enough because

2:13:54one of the things I think um

2:13:57may not be obvious from the outside is

2:13:59that we needed all of us needed mooring.

2:14:02When the when this all happened, it was

2:14:05very, you know, upsetting and and it was

2:14:07very difficult to not know what was

2:14:09going to happen next.

2:14:10And and senior leadership on staff, Russ

2:14:14in particular, you acted as mooring for

2:14:16us and and kept us um

2:14:18focused. I think there's quite a few

2:14:20times where you had to refocus me where,

2:14:22you know, let's do all the things all at

2:14:24once and okay, let's do this in a timely

2:14:26manner. I believe that you um we didn't

2:14:30intend it to be this way, but you

2:14:32auditioned for this job. You you you

2:14:35were on trial almost and you you

2:14:37exceeded, I think, any and all

2:14:39expectations I had. So, I want to thank

2:14:41you for that. This period um

2:14:44I know for a lot of people they they

2:14:46don't understand how difficult it is to

2:14:48make progress quickly. I believe the

2:14:50progress that's been made with your

2:14:52leadership and again, quite a few people

2:14:54on staff pitched in day in and day out

2:14:57and might I add 12 plus hours a day.

2:15:0212 plus hours a day. There was rarely a

2:15:05moment where most of our senior

2:15:07leadership was not available. Um and

2:15:09they answered calls, they were there,

2:15:11they showed up.

2:15:12Over and over and over again. That's the

2:15:14very definition

2:15:15of steadfast. So, I want to thank you

2:15:17for that. I had absolutely no

2:15:18reservation whatsoever

2:15:20um in speaking up and saying

2:15:22I I don't believe we need to look

2:15:23outside of Cary. I think we have the

2:15:25leaders right here in house. So, thank

2:15:28you and I'm really really happy that

2:15:29we're doing this. Thank you.

2:15:33>> I will go.

2:15:35As has been said over and over, I think

2:15:37this is one of the times where we

2:15:39can't say it enough that this has been a

2:15:43tough almost year

2:15:45for for

2:15:47all of our staff, for our council

2:15:49members, for our community.

2:15:52People who love Cary so very much. And

2:15:55so, thanks again to all of the staff and

2:15:58the support

2:16:00that you you give to us as council

2:16:02members, to the community and to each

2:16:04other. Um Um, it we

2:16:06we see it and we recognize how you've

2:16:08held each other up

2:16:10through all of this and Russ has been

2:16:12key to that.

2:16:14It takes

2:16:15It takes just a moment to break trust

2:16:18and it takes much more time to build

2:16:20that back.

2:16:22And

2:16:24I'm sure no matter how we decide to move

2:16:27forward

2:16:28with our next town manager that

2:16:31there will be some opposition.

2:16:33Everybody's not going to think the same

2:16:34on that, no different than we

2:16:37did not all vote together on some things

2:16:38tonight. That's that's the way people

2:16:41work and that's okay.

2:16:43But

2:16:44I am confident that as we're working

2:16:46together and from what I've seen in my

2:16:48almost three years on council that I'm

2:16:51confident that we can and will do this

2:16:53moving forward together. Russ was a key

2:16:56staff member. As someone said, it was

2:16:57like auditioning.

2:16:59Before we even knew, he was auditioning.

2:17:02He was a key staff member that I would

2:17:03always reach out to to help me grow in

2:17:06my understanding as a new council member

2:17:08and

2:17:10not once has he let me down.

2:17:12Um, I haven't seen him let any of us

2:17:15down. I know

2:17:16that can

2:17:18as nothing's promised.

2:17:21So, we have to make the best decisions

2:17:23that we can with what we know

2:17:25to this point and what I know to this

2:17:28point is that I I also have no

2:17:30reservations moving forward with Russ

2:17:34being our next town manager.

2:17:36>> Thank you.

2:17:37>> I would say that, um, I had the pleasure

2:17:40of working with Russ for 3 years because

2:17:42first 2 years as a deputy town manager,

2:17:45I was assigned to you. So, you were

2:17:47really responsible to help me through

2:17:50the different, um,

2:17:51things that I was working on and

2:17:54um, you always carried that positive

2:17:57attitude

2:17:59that if we

2:18:01don't know the answer, let's go and find

2:18:02the answers.

2:18:04And um I have to share that, you know, I

2:18:06agree with uh most of my every with

2:18:08everyone here.

2:18:10Not most, but everyone. That um

2:18:14that there was no playbook given to us

2:18:16when this everything started collapsing.

2:18:20But your positive attitude,

2:18:23your the calmness that you brought into

2:18:25the to into these meetings kind of

2:18:28helped each one of us navigate through

2:18:30this difficult situation.

2:18:32And

2:18:33I am grateful that you didn't really run

2:18:36in the other direction and said, "Guys,

2:18:38I can't do this." So, thank you so much

2:18:40for not divorcing us at a critical time,

2:18:44but also accepting this um challenge and

2:18:49opportunity to to steer the ship. Um

2:18:54My personal observation about Russ is,

2:18:56and I I'm sure everybody will agree,

2:18:59and I had to write this so that I don't

2:19:00forget, that um

2:19:02one thing very critical or important to

2:19:05know about Russ is that Russ loves Cary.

2:19:09And he has the best interest for Cary in

2:19:12his heart. And I'm very confident that

2:19:15Russ will work extremely hard

2:19:17to to help us regain the trust that was

2:19:21lost. It's going to take time, but we

2:19:23are all in this together and we really

2:19:25want you to be successful, Russ.

2:19:27>> Thank you.

2:19:30>> I felt adamantly that what Cary needed

2:19:33at this moment most was stability, and

2:19:37stability from someone with a deep

2:19:40knowledge of Cary, and like Council

2:19:41Member Bonsall said, a deep love for

2:19:44Cary. And I have complete confidence

2:19:47that Russ is that leader, and I feel

2:19:50really honored that I am on council at

2:19:52this moment to help initiate a new

2:19:54chapter for Cary.

2:19:57>> Take us home, Bella.

2:19:59>> [laughter]

2:19:59>> Yes. Let me close and Russ is the first

2:20:03town manager I met.

2:20:05>> [laughter]

2:20:05>> Cuz

2:20:06um

2:20:07>> That's true.

2:20:07>> as new

2:20:09council member, we're on board on such a

2:20:12reset mode. So,

2:20:14Russ has provided so much information

2:20:17for us to learn and especially the for

2:20:21the staff come to us to for us to learn

2:20:24so many things. But as the times for

2:20:26last 11 months, I can see that Russ is

2:20:29not

2:20:31working for himself. He's trying to

2:20:33uplift

2:20:35his

2:20:36assistant town managers and other

2:20:38directors. That makes me feel he is the

2:20:41true leader

2:20:43cuz it's not just promoting himself.

2:20:46And the true leader is not the title.

2:20:48It's the people who love to follow him.

2:20:51That really makes me feel Russ is the

2:20:55man.

2:20:56>> [laughter]

2:20:56>> Thank you, Russ.

2:20:58>> Thank you.

2:20:58>> for

2:21:00marrying us. Thank you.

2:21:02>> [laughter]

2:21:03>> May I May I amend my

2:21:04>> Sure.

2:21:04>> If I don't amend my remarks, I'm not

2:21:06going to be able to sleep tonight and

2:21:08it'll it'll it'll eat at me.

2:21:10>> Say steadfast again.

2:21:11>> I need to I need to really from the

2:21:14bottom of my heart thank

2:21:16all of our staff. I mentioned senior

2:21:19leadership and while they are the folks

2:21:21that I interface with, I think more

2:21:23frequently,

2:21:24our entire staff showed up and that was

2:21:28one of the things um that, you know,

2:21:30when I when I think about what kept the

2:21:32town going, it was, you know, everything

2:21:35from

2:21:36short-staffed first responders to rank

2:21:39and file staff, the the garbage still

2:21:41got picked up, the public works still

2:21:43got worked.

2:21:44I don't know a better way to say that.

2:21:46Um but, you know, the the PRCR

2:21:48department ran like, you know, as

2:21:50beautifully as it always does. All of

2:21:52those different departments and the

2:21:54whole entire staff really showed up and

2:21:56did what they needed to do

2:21:59to make sure that the average individual

2:22:01in Cary didn't feel the pain that the

2:22:05staff was actually

2:22:07experiencing. So, I wouldn't have been

2:22:09able to sleep if I didn't

2:22:11do that because I said that very poorly.

2:22:12I really should write my remarks down

2:22:14instead of

2:22:15>> Can I say you said it so well and that

2:22:16echoes like, you know,

2:22:18we all agree with you and that echoes

2:22:20everybody's emotions here. Like, we

2:22:22won't be able to pull out of this

2:22:24situation if it wasn't for the staff and

2:22:27the leadership we have here.

2:22:28>> Yeah.

2:22:29>> All right, we have a motion on the

2:22:30table. All in favor, please say I.

2:22:32>> I.

2:22:33>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously

2:22:35and to make this official, I want to

2:22:37invite Mr. Overton down to the podium.

2:22:57All right, repeat after me.

2:23:00I, Russ Overton, do solemnly swear

2:23:03that I will support maintain the

2:23:05Constitution laws of the United States.

2:23:08I You have to go a little slower.

2:23:10>> All right, or you can read it all.

2:23:11>> [laughter]

2:23:11>> I'll just read it all and and I I I'm

2:23:14good.

2:23:14>> Just say I do.

2:23:15>> Take two.

2:23:16>> I will.

2:23:17>> Russ Overton, do you solemnly swear that

2:23:19you will support maintain the

2:23:21Constitution laws of the United States

2:23:23and the Constitution laws of North

2:23:25Carolina not inconsistent therewith and

2:23:27that you will faithfully discharge the

2:23:29duties of your office as town manager of

2:23:32the town of Cary, so help you God?

2:23:35>> I do.

2:23:36>> Congratulations. Thank you very much.

2:23:39>> [applause]

2:23:47[applause]

2:23:57>> All right. Thank Thank you all very

2:23:58much. Especially for your kind words.

2:24:01First I want to thank the mayor and

2:24:02council for the trust and confidence

2:24:04you've placed in me. I'm truly honored

2:24:06and humbled by this opportunity.

2:24:09I want to thank my wife who I told not

2:24:11to come tonight because I figured I

2:24:12wouldn't be able to get through my words

2:24:14without that, but she's watching at

2:24:16home.

2:24:17And our three daughters for their love

2:24:19and support because I couldn't do this

2:24:21without them.

2:24:22Thanks to staff that stayed

2:24:24to do this. I couldn't do it without you

2:24:26and you and everyone else are the reason

2:24:28that I wanted to take on this position,

2:24:30quite frankly. After nearly 25 25 29

2:24:34years with Cary,

2:24:34>> [laughter]

2:24:35>> it's hard to put into words how much

2:24:36this place means to me and the people

2:24:38that I work with mean to me. As a matter

2:24:40of fact, I'll tell a short story that

2:24:42with my wife there was a time and

2:24:43continues to be that time if she goes

2:24:45anywhere,

2:24:46she has to tell me to shut up about

2:24:48talking about Cary

2:24:49because I want to just, as you said, I

2:24:51love this place. I know you all love

2:24:53this place and I think that's what makes

2:24:55us so special.

2:24:57Um

2:24:58you know, so it's the people that make

2:25:00this place so special who deliver our

2:25:02services to the Cary residents each and

2:25:03every day and they make our community

2:25:05great and make me want to take this job.

2:25:07I'm incredibly proud of what we all

2:25:09continue to accomplish together. I

2:25:11believe our best days are ahead of us

2:25:14and what excites me most is working with

2:25:16this and the entire Cary team and the

2:25:18opportunity to continue to build on

2:25:20everything that we've accomplished

2:25:22together. I'm grateful for the

2:25:23opportunity. I'm excited about the

2:25:25future and I'm ready to get working to

2:25:27move us all forward together. Thank you

2:25:30so much and I appreciate everything you

2:25:32do for the community as well. Thank you.

2:25:36>> [applause]

2:25:41[applause]

2:25:42>> All right. Couldn't end a meeting on a

2:25:44better note than that, so I would

2:25:46entertain a motion to adjourn.

2:25:47>> So moved.

2:25:48>> Second.

2:25:49>> There's a motion and a second.

2:25:50Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

2:25:52>> I.

2:25:53>> I.

2:25:53>> Any opposed? Motion carries and we are

2:25:55adjourned. Thank you.