2026-09-24 - Town Council Meeting

04:15call to order the September 24th meeting

04:17of the Kerry Town Council.

04:23As you may have noticed, we're missing

04:25some council members this evening. Miss

04:27Richards is going to be joining us

04:29remotely tonight as she is not feeling

04:31well. And Miss Bonsel is unable to

04:34attend. I want to check and make sure

04:36that Miss Richards can hear us. Miss

04:39Richards, can you hear us?

04:42>> I can. I hope you can hear me. And my

04:45apologies for not being with you in

04:47person. Thank you for accommodating me

04:49tonight.

04:49>> And thank you for not sharing [laughter]

04:52>> not sharing your sickness.

04:55>> So, we're

04:56>> happy to do my part.

04:59So, we're going to start with the

05:00ceremonial opening and I'll call on

05:02Council Member Craig for that.

05:04>> Good evening, everyone. There are many

05:06important observances that take place

05:09throughout September. Earlier this

05:11month, I had the opportunity to speak

05:12about suicide prevention month and the

05:14importance of mental health, reducing

05:16stigma, and making sure people know that

05:18they are not alone. Tonight, I'd like to

05:20recognize another important observance.

05:23September 15th through October 15th is

05:26National Hispanic Heritage Month and I

05:29want to take a few minutes to recognize

05:30and celebrate the Hispanic and Latino

05:32members of our Kerry community. Kerry is

05:36home to about 192,000 residents and just

05:41under roughly under 9% of our community

05:44identifies as Hispanic or Latino.

05:47These individuals are our students and

05:50the teachers, staff, and others who

05:51support them and care for our schools.

05:54They are our small business owners and

05:56employees, our parents and grandparents,

05:59our co-workers, our neighbors, our

06:02friends and our community leaders. They

06:04contribute to Carrie every day and they

06:06help make our community the vibrant and

06:08welcoming place that it is. I [snorts]

06:10don't know if I've mentioned this

06:12before, but starting last year, I began

06:15teaching English as a second language at

06:17the same school in Kerry that I've been

06:20at I've been associated with for more

06:21than 10 years. So, every day I have the

06:24privilege of working with multilingual

06:26learners and families and seeing

06:28firsthand the many cultures, languages,

06:30and experiences that our families bring

06:32to our schools and to Carrie. Hispanic

06:35Heritage Month is an opportunity to

06:38recognize not only the rich cultures and

06:40traditions of the Hispanic and Latino

06:42community, but also the people who are

06:44building businesses, educating our

06:46children, raising families, serving

06:49their neighbors, and helping shape Car's

06:51future.

06:52It also reminds us about something

06:54important about Carrie. Some Hispanic

06:56and Latino families have called Carrie

06:58home for generations,

07:01while others have recently chosen Carrie

07:03as their place to build lives, raise

07:05their families, pursue their dreams, and

07:06contribute to our community. More than

07:09one quarter of K's residents were born

07:11in another country. Together, these

07:14stories are part of what makes Kerry the

07:16diverse and welcoming community that it

07:18is. And I hope that as we celebrate

07:20Hispanic Heritage Month, we also

07:23reaffirm something that I believe is at

07:25the heart of Carrie,

07:27that is every person who calls Carrie

07:29home should know that they belong here,

07:31they are valued, and that their

07:33contributions matter. Carrie is a

07:36community for everyone.

07:38You probably can't see behind my

07:40computer, but I'm wearing a t-shirt

07:42tonight under my blazer just as um it

07:46has the flags of some of the um

07:49countries um of Hispanic and Latino

07:51origin. Um just as when I display flags

07:55of the countries that my students

07:56families identify with in my classroom,

07:58when I wear this shirt, my students get

08:01excited about seeing flags from places

08:03that are special to their families and

08:04to their classmates families. And this

08:07evening, as we say the pledge of

08:09allegiance, I ask that you pause to

08:11reflect on what it means to be a nation

08:13and one community that truly cares for

08:15all of our people. Thank you. And please

08:18join me for the pledge of allegiance

08:26to the flag of the United States of

08:28America and to the republic for which it

08:31stands. One nation under God,

08:35indivisible, with liberty and justice

08:37for all.

08:41[clears throat]

08:44[snorts]

08:45>> First order of business this evening is

08:48to adopt the agenda. We have a suggested

08:52amendment to the agenda. Since we are

08:53missing two council members for a vote,

08:57I would recommend that we take item

08:59three out off discussion. uh from this

09:03agenda and move it to our next agenda

09:05which will be sometime in October. Um

09:08and that would be my recommendation and

09:10if you feel uh inclined to do so I would

09:13entertain a motion.

09:14>> Uh so moved with the recommended

09:16amendment.

09:17>> Second.

09:18>> There's a motion and a second.

09:19Discussion. All in favor please say I.

09:22>> I.

09:22>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

09:30We have no recognitions, reports, and

09:32presentation. That's what surprised me.

09:35So, we're going right to public speaks

09:37out. And we've included instructions for

09:39speaking at at this forum online and on

09:42the printed agenda. There are three

09:44opportunities to participate in public

09:47speaks out through written comments, by

09:49calling in this evening, or by attending

09:52here in person tonight. And if you are

09:54here in person and would like to speak

09:56at public speaks out, I would ask that

09:58you take a seat in the roads to my right

10:00that are now highlighted. Public speaks

10:03out speakers have up to three minutes

10:05each for their comments and may speak on

10:08any town related topic as long as it's

10:11not a public hearing. And that works to

10:14your advantage because you get more time

10:16at a public hearing. The threeminut time

10:19limit will be enforced. Not to be rude,

10:22but to be fair to all of our speakers.

10:24We have a timer on the podium. It'll

10:26start off with a green light. When it

10:29turns yellow, that means we have 30

10:31seconds remaining. When it flashes red,

10:34that's the point. I'm going to interrupt

10:36you, not to be rude, but to be fair to

10:38all of our speakers.

10:41I would ask that speakers be respectful

10:43in their comments and direct comments to

10:46the entire council and not to an

10:48individual. And I thank everyone in the

10:51audience for understanding and

10:53respecting that this is a business

10:56meeting. Please do not applaud, make

10:59remarks from your seats, use props, or

11:02do anything else that me may distract

11:04from the meeting. So now is the time for

11:07public speaks out and I'll call on our

11:09town clerk to share the number of

11:11written comments and call on any

11:13registered speakers.

11:15>> We received five written comments. These

11:17comments have been emailed to council

11:19prior to the meeting, provided to

11:21council upon arrival, and also attached

11:22to the online agenda. And we have two

11:25registered speakers, Emma Kate Burns and

11:29Nashant Shaw.

11:39[snorts]

11:44>> Okay, you go first.

11:56Can I get you to move to your left?

11:58Thank you.

11:59>> Hi. You may remember me. My name is

12:02[clears throat] Emma Kate Burns. I am

12:03the government relations director for

12:04the American Heart Association. Um, and

12:07I believe that it was removed for the

12:08ordinance for tonight, but I will still

12:10um speak in support of the smokefree

12:12ordinance that you all will consider at

12:14your next meeting. Um, I'm here today to

12:17express the American Heart Association's

12:19strong support for the proposed

12:20amendments to carry smoke-free air

12:22ordinance. Um, as you have seen

12:24throughout the past few weeks, the

12:26American Heart Association is not alone

12:27in our support for this proposal. You've

12:30heard from a broad cross-section of the

12:32Kerry community that includes students.

12:34You're going to hear from a physician in

12:36a few minutes here, public health

12:38advocates, and more. and their voices

12:40have reflected a common belief that

12:42clean air in our public spaces is

12:44something the residents of Kerry

12:46deserve. At its core, this ordinance is

12:48about protecting public health. There is

12:50no safe level of exposure to secondhand

12:53smoke or aerosol from tobacco products.

12:56Whether someone is eating dinner,

12:57attending a community event, or enjoying

13:00one of Car's vibrant gathering spaces,

13:02residents should not have to choose

13:04between participating in their community

13:06and protecting public health. We

13:08recognize that some concerns have been

13:10raised regarding the potential economic

13:11impact of these policies, but

13:13fortunately, smokefree and aerosol-free

13:16policies have consistently been shown to

13:18have no negative impact on hospitality

13:20revenue. [snorts] Following North

13:22Carolina's implementation of smokefree

13:24bars and restaurants in 2010, the North

13:27Carolina Lodging and Restaurant

13:28Association reported no negative impact

13:31to businesses, with some even reporting

13:32a positive impact.

13:35Um, in addition, smoke-free environments

13:37are often more attractive to families,

13:39visitors, and customers who prefer these

13:42spaces free of aerosol and um,

13:44secondhand exposure from tobacco.

13:46[snorts] The American Heart Association

13:48believes that local governments play a

13:50critical role in advancing public

13:52health. Kerry has long been recognized

13:55as a town that values innovation,

13:57quality of life, and the well-being of

13:59its residents. Upholding the town's

14:01smoke-free ordinance and bringing it

14:03into the 20th century with these

14:04amendments will continue that tradition

14:06and demonstrate that carries has a

14:08commitment to protecting the health of

14:10current and future generations. So

14:12again, on behalf of the American Heart

14:14Association, I urge you to vote yes at

14:16the next meeting um regarding the

14:18smokefree air ordinance amendments.

14:20Thank you.

14:21>> Thank you.

14:30Good evening. Um, members of the Kerry

14:32Town Council, thank you so much for the

14:34opportunity to be here today. My name is

14:35Nishant Shaw and I'm a preventive

14:37cardiologist at Duke Health as well as a

14:38clinical investigator at the Duke

14:40Clinical Research Institute. Uh, and I'm

14:42here to respectfully also ask um to

14:46support our adoption of proposing

14:47updates to the smoke-free air ordinance

14:50along with your consideration to the

14:51change in the language. Unfortunately,

14:54in our country, one person dies of heart

14:57disease every 36 seconds. And as a

14:59cardiologist that also lives in Kerry

15:01and cares for this community, I

15:03unfortunately see the effects of tobacco

15:05use every day on people's cardiovascular

15:08health, not to mention lung cancer, lung

15:11health, cancer beyond the carton lungs,

15:15and other consequences of tobacco smoke.

15:18While significant progress has been made

15:20in reducing smoking rates, which is

15:21lovely, we still need to do a better job

15:24as heart disease is the number one cause

15:26of morbidity and mortality, not only in

15:28North Carolina, but in the US and across

15:31the world. I'm also very concerned about

15:33the effects of secondhand smoke. more

15:35and more literature is coming out

15:37showing the adverse effects of

15:39secondhand smoke not only to older

15:41individuals with other health related

15:43issues but also our children who are

15:45growing and and bodies going through a

15:47lot of changes.

15:49Um there's no safe level of exposure to

15:51secondhand smoke and in fact secondhand

15:54smoke emissions are more than just water

15:56vapor. They are carcinogenic. They have

15:58heavy metals uh and they have ultrafine

16:00particles that can lead to a lot of

16:03abnormalities.

16:04I'm also concerned about the optics of

16:06what smoking in public spaces looks like

16:08especially for children who are growing

16:10up and trying to understand you know

16:12what their identities are like. it. The

16:15role modeling behavior of smoking that

16:16leads to adverse health outcomes has

16:18been shown to lead to more smoking and

16:21by changing uh the way we approach that

16:24in our public spaces may help better

16:26role model to the future generations.

16:30As a resident of Kerry uh and what I

16:32love about Kerry is it's long recognized

16:33as a community that prioritizes health,

16:35quality of life and forward thinking.

16:38And the current smoking ordinance was

16:39adopted nearly two decades ago before

16:41ecigarettes became widespread and before

16:43we fully understood many of the risks

16:45associated with secondhand smoke as

16:47well. So updating the ordinance is a

16:49very practical and evidence-based step

16:51that reflects current science and

16:53current public health practices as well

16:55as current guidelines. So by adopting

16:57these ordinance changes, Carrie will

16:59certainly help ensure that residents,

17:00workers, and visitors in particular also

17:03our children can enjoy cleaner air in

17:06healthier public spaces. So, thank you

17:08for your time, uh, your leadership, of

17:10course, and your commitment to the

17:11health and well-being of Carrie. Thank

17:13you.

17:13>> Thank you.

17:15>> No additional registered speakers.

17:17>> If you're in the audience who would like

17:18to speak at public speaks out, now is

17:20your opportunity. And I would invite our

17:22first speaker forward.

17:34Uh, good evening, mayor and council.

17:36Jason Baron with Morning Star Law Group

17:37here on behalf of the applicant in

17:3922REZ20, which is the first uh

17:43discussion item that you have on your

17:45agenda, the Austin Commons resoning. Uh

17:48just want to update you on where this

17:50case has been since you last saw it.

17:51It's been here a couple of times uh

17:53previously the public hearing uh a while

17:55ago and then most recently this year.

17:57And there were questions that were

17:58raised at that meeting. Before I get

18:00into those changes, just want to remind

18:02you this is a truly vertically

18:04integrated structure parked mixeduse

18:06development. This is is there's going to

18:08be residential developed over retail. I

18:10believe it's the first develop

18:12development of its type uh for the most

18:14part in the Austin area that is kind of

18:17[snorts]

18:17embodying the vision of what Austin was

18:20supposed to be from day one. It's

18:21creating what we believe will be a more

18:23urban environment and the conditions

18:25that are associated with the case and

18:26the commitments that have been made are

18:28going to ensure that with respect to the

18:30questions that we received at the last

18:33meeting and the changes that have been

18:34made. Uh there were questions related to

18:36environmental commitments associated

18:38with the case. I just want to remind you

18:40there's a solar commitment related to

18:41the the pod one phase which is the car

18:44wash. Uh there are six EV charging

18:46stations in each of pods two through pod

18:49five. And then uh the last environmental

18:52commitment I want to talk about are

18:53Silva [clears throat] cells. Um and

18:56council member Con Johnson, I believe

18:58you may have put on your Facebook page

19:00at one point talking about what a

19:02tremendous advantage silver cells are in

19:04terms of preserving uh the the

19:07livelihood of trees that are planted in

19:09projects. Every single street tree that

19:11is implemented as part of this

19:13development that's along a public street

19:15will have a silver cell associated with

19:17it. So those trees will be able to

19:19achieve their maturity. They will grow

19:20to full maturity, provide critical shade

19:23in these areas. Um so we're happy to

19:25make that commitment. Uh Council Member

19:28Craig, you had a question about minimum

19:30residential commitment, just making sure

19:32that residential would be delivered with

19:33the site. An update that's been made is

19:35committing to 500 residential units as a

19:37minimum. The maximum remains what it

19:40was, but there is a minimum of 500

19:41units. And last, but certainly not

19:43least, there's been a lot of discussion

19:44of phasing associated with the delivery

19:47of the car wash and making sure that

19:49that vertically integrated mixeduse

19:51design, which is really the key

19:52component. It's the core of the

19:54development would be delivered so that a

19:57car wash wouldn't be standalone. We have

19:59previously had, excuse me, the car wash

20:02tied to just the pod two development. We

20:05have since updated that to add pod three

20:08as well. So both sides of that primary

20:10entrance of the development will now

20:13come out of the ground at the same time

20:15that the car wash is. So we're happy to

20:17answer any questions you all may have

20:18when you get to that item and we

20:20hopefully uh will receive your support

20:22tonight. Thank you.

20:23>> Thank you. Next speaker, [clears throat]

20:24please.

20:34>> Hello.

20:35>> Could you move to your left? Thank you.

20:37Right here.

20:38Hello. Most of you know who I am. My

20:40name is Matthew Grankkey. I have lived

20:41here since 1992, so quite a while. Um,

20:45I'm here to throw my support behind

20:48making the Transportation Working Group

20:50into the Transportation and Mobility

20:52Committee. I think that is a very good

20:54idea and I'm all for it. Um, I think

20:57it's very important, and I've mentioned

20:59this personally to many council members

21:02before, that our government be proactive

21:04instead of reactive. um especially in

21:07light of recent tragedies that have

21:08happened, I think it's important that we

21:10have a formal committee established that

21:13can uh look out for these kinds of

21:15issues and make sure that they are

21:18prevented. And as someone who bikes a

21:21lot around town and puts a lot of adults

21:24and children on bikes through the

21:25bicycle project that I run, um it's

21:27definitely an important issue to me. So,

21:29I really hope you guys move forward with

21:31it. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

21:42Good evening everyone. I'll have a

21:43comment very similar to the person

21:44before me. I'm Chuck Bryan. I'm a Carrie

21:46resident and I'm a board member of Carry

21:48On Bikes, a bike advocacy organization

21:50here at Kerry Pedestrian. Also, I also

21:54support the change of this working group

21:56to a committee. Um even though any group

22:01by any title and structure can uh

22:04perform the functions of what is desired

22:07in this committee, terminology such as a

22:10title is very important because it not

22:13only shapes the uh it primarily shapes

22:17the perception of the significance of a

22:20group. And we believe that

22:23uh if the council is serious about

22:26engaging with citizens uh to hear about

22:28what they want uh for safe transport

22:31across the town uh this is a very good

22:33step to take. So thank you very much and

22:36I support we our whole group supports

22:38this. Thank you.

22:40>> Thank you.

22:42>> Next speaker please.

22:51Good evening

22:54members of the town council. Mr. Mayor,

22:56my name is Elliot Tardiff, Kerry

22:58resident since 2014, and it's a

23:00privilege to speak with you all this

23:01evening. I want to take my time to talk

23:04about the word no. It is a word as a

23:07parent of two boys I'm quite familiar

23:08with and I'm sure you who are parents in

23:11the days are quite familiar with too.

23:13It's also a word that I am happy to see

23:15this town council using with greater

23:17regularity and to the benefit of the

23:20town's people. I want to document these

23:22uses for the record, some of them at

23:24least, and ask for more. Recently, you

23:28said no for now to data center

23:30development in this town. This is

23:32commendable. Many words and a few. Data

23:36centers have a lot of work to do to be

23:38better corporate citizens and neighbors.

23:41Speaking of, when the ALPR companies

23:43come calling, you know what to say to

23:45them, too. In recent days, you've

23:48signaled that you will say no to selling

23:50the town land near Kerry Elementary,

23:53which is also commendable.

23:55You also said no for now to redeveloping

23:58the town hall complex into some mixeduse

24:01monstrosity. This is also to your

24:04credit. While said to individuals, I'll

24:07go on the record here and state my

24:08belief that the redevelopment of

24:10downtown Kerry has been mismanaged.

24:13Too much residential and commercial

24:15intensity in too small a space. This

24:18proposal would have been the coup d'et

24:20grfully,

24:22no. Keep it on paper and out of reality.

24:26Further, as the recent water mane break

24:29has laid bare, this town isn't planning

24:31its infrastructure ahead for the future.

24:34It's trying to keep up with what's

24:36already here and it's not batting a

24:38thousand. I urge you to say no more

24:41often to new residential development in

24:43this town, at least until you have a

24:45complete understanding of what's here

24:48because right now you don't. Finally,

24:52consider a salary adjustment as

24:54discussed in a recent committee meeting.

24:56Not until the stasis are full-time

24:58employees of this town. No. Again, the

25:02business of this large dynamic town, one

25:04of the most desirable in the country,

25:07requires full-time attention from its

25:09leadership. This deis should reform

25:12itself accordingly. In some, thank you

25:15for no and more of this, please. Thank

25:18you for your time. Next speaker, please.

25:31Good evening, council members. My name

25:34is Sad Khan. I'm a junior at Green Hope

25:36High School, a proud Kerry resident, and

25:39a member of the PO Youth Empowerment

25:41Team. Thank you for giving me the

25:43opportunity to speak in support of this

25:45tobaccof free ordinance. As a student,

25:48I've seen how vaping has become

25:51increasingly normalized among young

25:53people. Students may start because their

25:56friends are doing it, because they want

25:58to fit in, or because they believe

26:00vaping is harmless. What begins as a

26:03curiosity can develop can develop into a

26:06nicotine addiction.

26:09That is why the spaces where young

26:11people gather matter a lot.

26:13Children, families, and friends should

26:16be able to enjoy parks, greenways, and

26:19recreational areas, community events

26:21without exposure to heck, secondhand

26:24smoke or vaping aerosols. The Wake

26:27County tobacco control dashboard shows

26:30the many municipals across our county

26:34and have different levels of tobaccof

26:36free protections.

26:38Some communities have already adopted

26:40stronger 100% tobaccof free policies.

26:44This gives Kerry an opportunity to

26:46strengthen its protections as well. But

26:49I want to emphasize one thing. 100%

26:52tobaccof free means no designated

26:55smoking or vaping areas in our shared

26:58outdoor spaces. Designated areas still

27:01allow tobacco use in places where

27:04children and families gather and they

27:07can continue to normalize these products

27:09around young young people. This is not

27:12about controlling what adults choose to

27:15do in their personal lives. It is about

27:17establishing a clear standard for the

27:20public spaces as we all share.

27:23So tonight, I respectfully ask you all

27:25to support the 100% tobaccof free

27:29outdoor public spaces in Kerry without

27:32designated smoking or vaping areas.

27:34Let's all choose cleaner hair, healthier

27:37spaces, and a stronger future for Kerry.

27:39Thank you for your time and

27:40consideration. Thank you.

27:44>> Next speaker, please.

27:54Good evening, mayor and council members.

27:56My name is Mansiv Sho. I'm a a senior at

27:59Greenh Hope High School and I'm also

28:01here to speak about the town's smokefree

28:03and tobaccof free air ordinance. I've

28:05spoken about this ordinance at various

28:07other council meetings and I'm back

28:08because the kids in this town are

28:09counting on this ordinance. I'm here

28:12with the PO youth empowerment team, but

28:13more than that, I'm here for the kids in

28:15Kerry who want to grow up in a

28:17smoke-free environment. I live here,

28:19too. So, it's my hometown, and I want it

28:21to be a place where being healthy is the

28:23default. Right now, vapes are easy to

28:26find and easy to see. Kids sell them on

28:28buses. Bathroom alarms go off in

28:30schools. It's almost become background

28:32noise. And that's the scary part. When

28:34it turns into background noise, kids

28:36stop asking whether it's okay, and it

28:39turns into more of the norm. And the

28:41numbers show how fast that's happened.

28:43Wake County's own figures show that

28:44vaping among North Carolina high

28:46schoolers went from 1.7% in 2011 to

28:5020.9%

28:52in 2019. That's an increase of over

28:541,000% in less than a decade. So how

28:58does it spread? According to UNCC's

29:01North Carolinians for a tobaccof free

29:02generation policy brief, over 43% of NC

29:06teens who vape get their vapes from a

29:09friend, not a store, a friend. It

29:11spreads through what kids see around

29:13them and what feels normal. What matters

29:16most to me is that among many teens,

29:18vaping is still seen as cool. And what

29:21people consider cool is shaped by what

29:23they see around them. That's exactly why

29:25this ordinance matters. When clean air

29:27becomes the standard in places we all

29:29share, it no longer becomes what the

29:31cool kids are doing. It becomes

29:33something that looks out of place. It

29:35looks uncool. Th that shift only happens

29:39if the message is consistent. Young

29:41people don't experience carry in certain

29:43zones. They they have no way of knowing

29:46where one rule starts and another

29:47begins. They simply notice what's around

29:50them. So the clearest message we can

29:52send is a consistent one. smoke free,

29:54vape free, and tobaccof free in all of

29:57our public spaces so that no young

29:59person has to guess. This council has

30:01the power to make clean air the norm for

30:03the next generation of carry kids. I

30:05urge you to vote in the next council

30:07meeting. Thank you for your time and for

30:08your leadership.

30:10>> Next speaker, please.

30:31Good evening, council members. My name

30:32is Yoshasi Saxana and I'm a high school

30:34junior at NCSSM Durham and I'm a youth

30:37leader with the POE Center for Health

30:39Education's Teen Health Advisory

30:40Council. I want to talk today about the

30:43tobaccof free public places ordinance

30:45and why it matters for young people in

30:47our community. I want to begin by saying

30:49that I appreciate Car's commitment to

30:51creating these public spaces and

30:53appreciate the effort to make our parks

30:54healthier places for families and young

30:56people. I also want to share what

30:59tobacco and nicotine use looks like from

31:01the perspective of a high school

31:02student. Every day, students can walk

31:04into bathrooms filled with vape clouds.

31:06We see people vaping before school, in

31:09parking lots, around recreational

31:10facilities, and at community events.

31:13Because young people encounter it so

31:15frequently, tobacco and nicotine use

31:17become to feel normal. And that

31:19normalization matters. When young people

31:22repeatedly see smoking and vaping in

31:24public spaces, it can contribute to the

31:26perception that tobacco use is not

31:28particularly harmful or serious. This

31:30can lead to a kind of desensitization,

31:33especially when the long-term effects of

31:35nicotine were not immediately visible.

31:37And nicotine use among young people is

31:39not insignificant in our area. According

31:41to the North Carolina Youth Risk

31:43Behavior Survey, 21.4% of North Carolina

31:46high school students reported using an

31:48electronic vapor product containing

31:50nicotine. For teenagers, the concern is

31:53not simply whether someone chooses to

31:55use a tobacco product. It's also the

31:57environment surrounding that choice.

31:59Public spaces help shape what young

32:01people perceive as normal, acceptable,

32:04and common. And these effects extend

32:07beyond the people that use these

32:09products. Young people who do not smoke

32:11or vape can still encounter secondhand

32:13smoke or ecigarette aerosol in shared

32:16public spaces. When tobacco use is

32:19permitted around us, we simply cannot

32:21choose to avoid that exposure. And I

32:24believe that consistency is key. People

32:27do not experience the triangle as

32:29completely separate jurisdictions and

32:31families move between municipalities

32:33every day. When tobacco regulations

32:36change from one to another, residents

32:37and visitors may not know which rules

32:39apply in which city boundary.

32:42Consistency matters for implementation.

32:44If Broly and Carrie have similar

32:46expectations for tobacco use in public

32:48spaces, residents receive one clear

32:50message about what is expected.

32:53Clarity and consistency are especially

32:54important when the goal is protecting

32:56young people. As a teenager and as a

32:59resident of Kerry, I want young people

33:01to have public spaces where healthy

33:02choices are supported. And ultimately,

33:05it's about the environment we create for

33:07the next generation. I appreciate Carrie

33:09for taking steps toward tobaccof free

33:11public spaces and the commitment to

33:13keeping our spaces clean. I hope that

33:15you consider voting in favor of this

33:17ordinance at the next meeting. Thank

33:18you.

33:18>> Thank you. Anyone else for public speaks

33:22out?

33:24Seeing no one, I'll close public speaks

33:26out and we'll move to the consent

33:29agenda, which is item four. And for the

33:32benefit of people watching our meeting

33:34via streaming, I'll take a moment to

33:36review our consent agenda items. Please

33:39keep in mind that one vote approves all

33:42of these items. On the consent agenda,

33:45we have council member travel and

33:47training expenses for August 2026

33:51budget adjustment arbitrage funds

33:54capital area metropolitan planning

33:57organization budget amendment. Bid award

34:00for the 2026 force main inspection and

34:03maintenance project. Bid award for

34:06Optimus Farm road Optimus Farm roadwater

34:10main extension and interconnect

34:13interconnect

34:15contract for integrated fuel management

34:18services. Contract amendment for

34:20management and operations of fixed and

34:23demand response transit services.

34:26Contract amendment for value engineering

34:29for Western Wake Regional Water

34:31Reclamation Facility Project.

34:34notification contract with Cisco Capital

34:37for information technology equipment.

34:40Would council members like any of these

34:42items pulled from the consent for

34:44discussion? If not, I would entertain a

34:47motion to approve the consent agenda.

34:49>> So moved.

34:50>> Second.

34:50>> There's a motion and a second. In

34:52discussion, I'll call on Miss Richards,

34:54see if she has any comments.

34:59>> No, mayor.

35:00>> Okay. Other comments from council? All

35:03in favor of the motion, please say I.

35:05>> I.

35:06>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

35:09That takes us to public hearings.

35:13If I can catch up. Here we go.

35:22We have only one public hearing this

35:25evening and that is 26A6 Evans Road

35:29annexation and principal planner Rachel

35:32Smith will introduce this hearing and

35:34council may take action on this item.

35:36Mrs. Smith.

35:38>> Good evening council. This is case

35:4026A06.

35:42a petition to annex approximately 46

35:44acres of unadressed property on Evans

35:46Road about 500 ft north of Silver Grove

35:49Drive. The property owners petition to

35:52annex the site so they may build a new

35:54detached dwelling home and connect to

35:56carry utilities. The property is vacant,

35:59contiguous to carry corporate limits and

36:02within Car's extr territorial

36:03jurisdiction. It is zoned carry

36:06residential 20 which permits the

36:08proposed detached toll in use. So a

36:10resoning is not needed.

36:12There is no intervening right ofway

36:14associated with this with this request.

36:16This evening, council is asked to hold

36:18the public hearing on the annexation

36:19petition. And following the public

36:21hearing, I'm available for any questions

36:23and council may take action on the

36:25annexation this evening.

36:27>> Thank you, Miss Smith. So, now is the

36:29public hearing for 26A6

36:31Evans Road annexation. And I'll call on

36:34the clerk to share any written comments

36:36or call on any registered speakers. No

36:39registered speakers nor written

36:40comments.

36:41>> If you're here in the audience and would

36:43like to speak at this public hearing,

36:44now is your opportunity and I would

36:46invite you forward. Seeing no one, I'll

36:49close the public hearing, open it up to

36:51council members for questions or

36:53comments. Miss Richards, any questions

36:56or comments?

36:59>> No, mayor. Thank you.

37:01>> Okay. I would entertain a motion to

37:03approve the annexation. U make a motion

37:06that we approve 26A06

37:10Evans Road annexation.

37:12>> Second.

37:12>> There's a motion and a second.

37:13Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

37:16>> I. Any oppose? Motion carries

37:18unanimously.

37:20>> We now move to discussion items. Our

37:23first discussion item is 22Z Alustin

37:26Commons PDP. Planning manager Aaron

37:29Pucket will give a report and council

37:32may take action. Miss Pucket. Thank you,

37:34mayor, and good evening, council. This

37:37is a request to reszone approximately

37:3822.74 acres at NC55 highway and Petty

37:42Farm Road. You held the public hearing

37:44for this request in April of 2025, and

37:47you continued this item in March of this

37:49year when it came before you last.

37:54Site is located on the east side of NC55

37:56highway with frontage on both sides of

37:58Petty Farm Road. The Noval Kerry

38:00apartment development is located to the

38:02north. Austin Town Center is across NC55

38:05to the west and a town of Kerry water

38:08tower is located directly south of the

38:10site.

38:13The site is currently zoned office

38:15research and development or OAD. It's

38:17also within the mixeduse Overlay

38:18district and the Austin activity center

38:21which allows for a variety of uses.

38:24and the applicant proposes to reszone

38:26the site to mixeduse district or MXD

38:28with a preliminary development plan and

38:31the mixeduse overlay will remain.

38:34The proposed preliminary development

38:36plan is divided into five pods. Pod one

38:39is a commercial pod which may be

38:41developed with singlestory commercial

38:42uses and surface parking. This is the

38:45only pod where a car wash is permitted.

38:47Pods two and three are mixeduse pods

38:50which may include commercial, office and

38:52residential uses. Buildings may be

38:54between three and seven stories and at

38:56least 75% of parking will be in

38:59structured parking facilities. At least

39:017,500 square feet of commercial uses

39:03will be vertically integrated in both of

39:05these mixeduse pods.

39:08Pod 4 contains only residential uses and

39:11may also be in 3 to sevenstory buildings

39:13with at least 75% structured parking

39:15required.

39:18Pod five is an office pod. Commercial

39:20uses are also permitted in this pod.

39:22Buildings will again be between three

39:24and seven stories and at least half of

39:26parking will be in structures.

39:30The proposed uses and intensities for

39:32the site include up to 625 residential

39:35units which may consist of multif family

39:37units or life care community, a maximum

39:4030,000 foot car wash, and in addition, a

39:44minimum of 15,000 and maximum of 25,000

39:47square feet of commercial uses other

39:49than the car wash such as banks, bars,

39:52restaurants, and retail stores among

39:54others. and a minimum of 50,000 and

39:57maximum of 200,000 square feet of

39:59office.

40:02The applicant has also provided several

40:04development standards that would apply

40:05specifically to a car wash use on pod

40:08one. These were added after the public

40:10hearing last year. These include fully

40:12enclosing all equipment, including

40:14vacuums in the building, limiting

40:16drive-thru lanes, through the building,

40:18to just one, installing eight solar

40:20panels on the roof, designing building

40:23facades with 85% masonry material in at

40:25least two colors, which exceeds the

40:28community appearance manual requirement

40:30of 75% masonry, and phasing the car wash

40:33to ensure construction has begun

40:35elsewhere on site at the time of its

40:37completion.

40:39The applicant has also offered to

40:41provide streetside trail along all site

40:43frontages.

40:44In addition, the site will be subject to

40:46right-of-way dedication and improvements

40:48along all frontages as applicable,

40:51including a third northbound through

40:52lane on NC55.

40:55Transportation improvements are proposed

40:57at all of the seven site access points,

40:59and this would include right turn lanes

41:01at three sight access points along NC55.

41:05And the development is also required to

41:07construct the portion of the Mcrimman

41:09Parkway extension through the site which

41:11staff anticipates will stub to a

41:13potential future grade separated

41:15crossing.

41:18The preliminary development plan offers

41:20streetscapes and buffers mostly

41:22consistent with minimum LDL widths and

41:24planting rates and commits to screening

41:26parking decks via wrapping or partially

41:29wrapping them with buildings in pods

41:31two, three, and four. and in five, they

41:33may be screened with green walls or

41:35artwork.

41:36At least 5% of the units will be

41:38affordable at 80% of the area median

41:40income for a 30-year period. At least 5%

41:44of the units will be a maximum size of

41:46750 square ft. And this condition may

41:49overlap with the previous condition

41:51about the 80% AMI units.

41:54There will be at least 48 electric

41:56vehicle charging spaces distributed

41:58across pods 2 through five.

42:018 foot wide sidewalk will be provided on

42:04internal streets and travelways.

42:07And over 20,000 square feet of community

42:10gathering space will be distributed

42:11across the site with at least 500 square

42:14feet in pod one and 5,000 square feet in

42:16the others.

42:18The applicant has requested several

42:20modifications, including some

42:21modifications to streetscapes and the

42:24internal transportation network, which

42:26were detailed more fully in your staff

42:28report.

42:30The planning and zoning board reviewed

42:31this request in July of 2025 and they

42:34found the request consistent with the

42:36imaginary community plan by a vote of 8

42:38to1 with a one vote for inconsistency

42:41noting the proposal was only partially

42:43consistent with plan policies and also

42:45that it was important the request be

42:47discussed when it returned to council as

42:49it was very complex. This request was

42:51scheduled for final decision in both

42:53September and October of last year, but

42:55removed both times at the applicant's

42:57request, after which time a phasing

42:59condition was initially added. And then,

43:02as you are aware, the request was

43:04scheduled for decision at your March

43:05meeting earlier this year, but was

43:07continued indefinitely after a motion to

43:09approve failed to pass.

43:12The applicant made several changes to

43:14condition since the case was continued

43:16in March, including adding a minimum

43:18number of residential units, 500 in

43:21addition to the maximum,

43:23adding a minimum height of 18 ft to the

43:26one-story building in pod one. And for

43:28reference, one a one-story, excuse me,

43:31one commercial story typically averages

43:33about 15 feet in height.

43:36Specifying there will be two colors of

43:38masonry for a car wash in pod one.

43:42specifying that at least 500 square feet

43:44of the community gathering space in pod

43:46three, which again is one of the

43:48mixeduse pods, shall include real or

43:50synthetic grass and include at least

43:52three items from a pick list such as

43:54seating, plantings, art, or others.

44:00and the applicant modified the

44:01previously offered phasing condition to

44:03specify that no certificate of occupancy

44:05will be requested for pod one prior to

44:08construction commencing on pod two and

44:10pod three which are the two mixeduse

44:12pods.

44:14While the condition does allow a car

44:15wash to be the first use constructed on

44:17site and does not dictate phasing for

44:19the entire project or ensure the timing

44:22of f full buildout of the mixeduse pods.

44:24It would ensure that a car wash cannot

44:26be completed and occupied unless

44:28vertical construction, which is at least

44:31erecting columns, has begun on buildings

44:33in those two central pods, subject to an

44:36approved development plan.

44:39A full analysis of the case against the

44:41imaginary community plan was provided in

44:43your staff report. Generally, staff

44:46found the proposal meets a number of

44:47live, shop, and engage policies

44:50and does at least partially meet some

44:52shape, work, and move policies. The

44:55proposal also offers a number of

44:57commitments consistent with the vision

44:58for destination centers. These policies

45:01are most directly addressed by pods 2,

45:03three, and four. On their own, these

45:06central pods are aligned with the

45:07destination center guidance.

45:11Pod 5 can also be consistent in its

45:13proposal of complimentary office uses

45:15and structured parking, although the

45:17lack of detail and phasing makes it

45:19difficult to deem fully consistent with

45:21plan policies.

45:23And finally, pod one on its own is not

45:25consistent with destination center

45:27guidance due to the proposed use and

45:29form and the vehicular oriented nature

45:31of this pod.

45:33Overall, the proposal does not fully

45:35address all applicable policies, but

45:37does largely offer positive commitments

45:39in line with plan guidance and therefore

45:42on balance, staff recommends approval of

45:44the request.

45:47This concludes my presentation and I'm

45:49happy to answer any questions.

45:50>> Thank you, Mr. Pucket. I have a

45:52procedural question and I'm going to

45:54look at Mr. Barry and M. Johnson while I

45:57ask you this question.

45:59I thought you said a planning and zoning

46:02board member voted no because he wanted

46:04to make he she wanted to make sure this

46:07was discussed.

46:09I would prefer and this is something we

46:12can work on 3x4s or whatever that they

46:15are able to vote their conscience and as

46:17a body recommend that we discuss it if

46:22we can do that and I think our policy is

46:23practice not policy right or the putting

46:27on the consent agenda is practice not

46:29policy correct

46:30>> I believe

46:32>> yeah I think we'd have to update a um a

46:36procedure of how we do that but we can

46:38take a look at that discuss it,

46:39>> but it's something to consider in the

46:41future because I really want to know

46:43what they think. I don't want them

46:44voting no just because they want us to

46:46discuss it. So,

46:47>> yes. Anyway,

46:48>> and I don't think it was only that. I

46:50think there was some language they used

46:52about it meets some policies. It doesn't

46:54fully meet everything I want it to meet.

46:57And also, I recognize this probably

46:58needs further consideration. So, I

47:00wanted to accurately reflect what they

47:02said, but I take your point.

47:04>> Okay. Thank you. And Miss Richards, I'll

47:06start with you first. see if you have

47:08questions, comments about this.

47:11>> I appreciate that, mayor. Thank you. I I

47:13do have a few brief comments and I'm

47:15sorry that council member Bonszal isn't

47:17with us this evening because I first

47:19want to commend her for being such a

47:21tireless advocate for her district and

47:24for working so diligently with the

47:25applicant to improve this proposal. I

47:29thank the applicant for being receptive

47:31and responsive. And I personally

47:34appreciate the investment in soil cells

47:36for the proposed street trees to ensure

47:39the health of those trees and for the

47:41preservation of a champion tree on the

47:43property. And I can support this much

47:46density in this location because it is

47:48within one of our designated destination

47:50centers. And our destination centers are

47:52the place where the imagine carry plan

47:54says density and this kind of commercial

47:57development is most appropriate. And I

47:59think that then allows us to preserve

48:02other parts of Terry to be less dense

48:04and less developed. So had I been

48:06casting a vote tonight, I would have

48:08been supportive.

48:10>> Thank you, M. Richards. I'll open it up

48:12to my colleagues for questions or

48:14comments.

48:16>> Yeah, I can go first. Yeah. Yeah. Um I

48:18agree with uh council member uh Richard

48:22and uh she said that this is the destin

48:25destination center and uh it shows the

48:28density here is good fit. uh and I saw

48:33the

48:34uh the changes that the uh the phase

48:38that part two and part three will be

48:40developed together compared to last

48:43time. It was the change right and also

48:47saw the uh the improvement about the uh

48:51the trees the storm water system the

48:54sailor soil.

48:56Yeah, that I learned that from you as

48:58well. [laughter]

49:00And uh one question is the u affordable

49:03housing 5% of the units. So my question

49:07is uh is the p two and p three the total

49:10units will be developed like 5% of units

49:15and also what kind of units are they

49:18onebedroom or two bedrooms? Uh do they

49:21have several options for those

49:23affordable housing?

49:25>> Yes. So, the bedrooms or the size of the

49:27units beyond that commitment to a a

49:30certain percentage, it'll be smaller

49:32units. We we don't know. They haven't

49:34committed to a certain number of

49:34bedrooms. That would be a development

49:36plan question. Regardless, they do still

49:38have to make sure at least 5% and it

49:40would be by phase. So, if pod 4 develops

49:43last, 5% of whatever amount is in that

49:46pod would still have to be affordable.

49:48So, it is by phase. um with the

49:51inclusion now of a minimum number of

49:53residential units in addition to the

49:54maximum, we know we'll at least get 5%

49:57of 500 is 25 units. So we have some

50:00certainty now that we would at least get

50:0225 units at 80% AMI whereas before we

50:05only had the maximum. Okay, that's uh a

50:09little bit concern for me because I

50:11would love to have more affordable

50:14housing to be developed together during

50:16the first phase so we could provide to

50:19the needs of our community. Um but in

50:23general, I'm pretty supportive of this

50:26uh the changed proposal. Thank you.

50:29>> And and on the affordable housing, just

50:32to remind everybody, 80% of AMI is over

50:35$100,000 a year. So, not really

50:37affordable. I love the 750 square foot

50:41because that's naturally affordable.

50:43We've talked about that before

50:45>> and so that's almost guaranteeing that

50:48some of them will be affordable. So,

50:51love that. And uh uh I was originally

50:55concerned about this project because I

50:57thought it would be a car wash only or

50:58could be a car wash only. So, now that

51:01we have more guarantees that that

51:02wouldn't be the case, then I can support

51:05it. main like like Miss Richard said

51:07it's in a destination center. So other

51:11comments?

51:12>> Well, I'll I'll just quickly mirror what

51:14you said, Mr. Mayor. The um Silva cells,

51:18of course, I I'm I go on and on and on

51:20about them because now that I've I've

51:23I've gone to other cities and and saw,

51:25oh, okay, this is real shade. Uh one of

51:28my goals in life is to make us not all

51:30bake in the sun in every built

51:32environment and carry. And if you want

51:34people to linger in this mixeduse um

51:39community is really what it is, they

51:42will if they're not frying like beetles.

51:44So very big fan of that. Um those trees

51:46will reach more maturity, height, um

51:49density of leaves, all the things. So

51:50it's it's also, as I understand it,

51:53really great to run wires and pipes and

51:55all kinds of things through as well.

51:57Right. I'm looking at I'm waiting for a

51:59nod from Mr. Barry at the end there. Um,

52:02but I will say this project began its

52:04journey through our um not short process

52:09to be reszoned quite a while ago. Quite

52:11a while ago, we were not as

52:13sophisticated with um what we asked for

52:16and or what we

52:18asked is the right word and when it came

52:21to affordable housing. So, we were less

52:23um we were just really happy to get

52:27anything sometimes. Um, and then you

52:30know, as the mayor's mentioned here, 80%

52:33is, you know, that's a lot. That's

52:36people making a a pretty darn good

52:38living. One of the reasons why I

52:40advocate for smaller footprint living

52:43spaces is because those are naturally

52:45going to be more affordable. um whether

52:47they're restricted by um you know really

52:50they probably don't even need to be

52:51restricted to 80% or less because those

52:53are the most likely individuals that and

52:56especially in a in a garden apartment

52:58where a more luxury community those are

53:00the individuals that are likely to to

53:02live in those smaller units of people at

53:03that 90 to $100,000 income household

53:06income level wouldn't be I mean out of

53:08the ordinary I will say that um having a

53:11condition with the 5% being kept at a

53:15smaller size and also having a condition

53:19um to reserve 80% or less for 30 years

53:23or or less, right? Those are each

53:26excellent. They should be mutually

53:29exclusive. Having them overlap um and be

53:33applied to the same group of housing

53:36units doesn't live up to the spirit of

53:40what I expected when those were offered

53:42as a condition. And I hope as we we get

53:45more and more sophisticated that I don't

53:47see that again. Um it's just it it just

53:50doesn't it doesn't that's not what we

53:53meant. That's not what we thought we

53:54agreed to. And and I just want to be

53:58very very um explicit in that that is

54:02one condition to me that is not two nor

54:05is it a generous condition. And I do

54:07understand there are significant um

54:10financing and other issues. you know,

54:13you still have to do this at a profit

54:15and these are not nonprofit builders

54:17that are um building affordable housing,

54:19you know, as as a career. So, I do

54:21understand that the inclusion of the

54:23affordable housing is challenging as it

54:26is. But, um, you know, I just I just

54:28want to be clear about, you know, what I

54:30think about a condition like that. You

54:32know, I would have rather just see the

54:33the smaller size condition. Um, I I'm

54:37I'm quite pleased with those because I

54:38really do, as somebody who lived in 748

54:41square feet for a long time, I really do

54:43know that those that smaller housing

54:45footprint can make a big difference for

54:47for folks that, you know, just can't

54:49afford the average carry cost. I'm still

54:53um supportive of this project. I think I

54:55never had a problem with the car wash. I

54:57always thought it was a good idea. As a

54:58matter of fact, if you remember that, I

55:00think everybody giggled at me, but here

55:01we are talking about a car wash at the

55:04end. So I just want to share my

55:05perspective and I do support this

55:07project though.

55:09I think I can probably quickly echo

55:12everything that everyone has said so

55:14far. And just to just to restate again,

55:19at first look, it would have been

55:23I I think I can say pretty exciting if

55:26we were looking at 25 units at 80% AMI

55:31for 30 years and 25 units at 750. And we

55:36we don't know that for sure. I think it

55:38is a step in the right direction as as

55:41you said and what we want to see more

55:43of. Um

55:45I lived in a 600 foot apartment um as a

55:49brand new teacher and um would

55:53definitely like to see more of those. I

55:55am very pleased with um the statement of

55:58the minimum number of units because that

56:00at least tells us we're getting at least

56:0425 something that should be more

56:06affordable than market rate.

56:11>> Um well, first off, I think we've all

56:12said it, but I'd like to thank the work

56:15that the applicant has done. I know this

56:17has been a a long slot and different

56:20folks and you've been through different

56:22councils, too, right? which is no great

56:25uh or it's quite a great feat to have to

56:28bring new council members up to speed as

56:30well. Um and tried to uh juggle all the

56:35various um desires that each one of us

56:37had. Um also want to thank the applicant

56:39for putting the latest visions into the

56:42plan.

56:43not only did you listen, but you took

56:46action. And so that's really really

56:48helpful. Whether it's um from the

56:51environmental items, the EV, the solar,

56:54the silver cells, the I mean just the

56:57structured parking alone, we know how

56:59expensive that is. Um and that's re

57:02where a destination center and

57:03structured parking really do come

57:06together. and and deck screening. I

57:09don't know who asked for that, but thank

57:10you for asking [laughter]

57:11because uh that's also going to make a

57:13difference. Um but as the mayor has said

57:16and I've heard from developers, I think

57:20what we're hearing at this table is that

57:22our methodology for affordable housing

57:25isn't working as well as we had hoped.

57:28It was a great idea and I still think

57:30it's a great idea, but with the change

57:32in the environment, the change in

57:34financing, you know, it it was a way for

57:37us to get some affordable housing when

57:39we had none.

57:41>> Um, and so,

57:44as you mentioned, 80% AMI isn't reaching

57:47the workforce need. It's not meeting the

57:49needs of teachers, 911 operators,

57:52police, fire, and and people who work in

57:55our restaurants. Um, and 750 square feet

58:01gets there from a naturally occurring

58:03perspective. Although a single mom with

58:06two or three kids is going to have a

58:08challenge

58:10in 750 square feet. So having options

58:16really hits more people, not just the

58:19small apartment entry level college

58:21student. So, I'm supportive of this and

58:25I'm very supportive. Thank you so much

58:27for adding the phasing. But, uh, one

58:30thing I would like to make a comment and

58:32maybe this could be a future discussion.

58:35I'm not a council initiated item.

58:38>> [laughter]

58:38>> Um, but it would be great if we had

58:41other tools in our toolbox for having

58:45more affordable housing that is a winwin

58:48and a partnership with our development

58:50community rather than, you know, a

58:54strain on them. Uh Raleigh has some

58:58great tools where they use a housing

59:00fund and a developer can make a donation

59:04to that housing fund and then not be

59:06strapped with this 30-year commitment

59:10>> to provide it and we along with our

59:13nonprofit partners take it on. I think

59:16what I'm feeling is there might be other

59:19ways to make a better

59:22um better dent yeah in in what we can

59:25do. So that has nothing to do with this.

59:28I'm very supportive of it, but I I

59:30recognize that as our economy changes,

59:35as the financing becomes more difficult,

59:38it might be a way for us to get more

59:40affordable housing. But having said all

59:42that, putting it out there, I I am

59:44supportive of this as well.

59:45>> Can I just share I I agree very very

59:48much. It was recently explained to me by

59:52someone who designs um a lot of these

59:54communities that um you know we're not

59:57in the managing checking how much you

1:00:00make and making sure that you qualify

1:00:02business. And he said he was telling me

1:00:04that if we were to embrace smaller

1:00:08units, not all studios, you know, my 748

1:00:12ft was two bedrooms, right? But if we

1:00:14embrace the smaller unit approach then

1:00:17it's less of a financing problem for

1:00:20them or or management and it becomes a

1:00:22geometry problem and he said and we can

1:00:25solve a geometry problem. So just I like

1:00:28that idea very very much and of course a

1:00:30lot of the books you know we're reading

1:00:31a lot of the same books we are

1:00:33>> um they they really because you know

1:00:35we're approving and they're staggered

1:00:37but what we're looking at is losing in

1:00:4030 years or sometimes 20 years we're

1:00:42going to lose unit after unit after unit

1:00:44so these have a shelf life

1:00:46>> right

1:00:46>> which I think it's good because we have

1:00:48a significant issue right now but it

1:00:51doesn't longterm um exactly

1:00:54>> solve any affordability issues. Yeah.

1:00:56And not to belabor the point and yes and

1:01:00that one of the challenges is having a

1:01:04more of a variety of affordable housing

1:01:07>> and I I think the idea of having some

1:01:10smaller units for natural occurring

1:01:12housing. I know this this applicant uh

1:01:15was also involved in the Banebridge um

1:01:18development which happens to without any

1:01:21conditions have more than 13% of their

1:01:24units at 750 square feet because the

1:01:27market is there for that. So if the

1:01:31market's going to address some things

1:01:32that's great. I'd like to address what

1:01:35the market can't hit and I think that

1:01:38that is some of the bigger units.

1:01:40Anyway, with that, since we all spoke,

1:01:43um, may make a motion that we move to

1:01:46adopt the following documents attached

1:01:49to the online agenda for the statement

1:01:52of consistency for 22 Alustin Commons,

1:01:56PDD, and the reasonzoning ordinance 22

1:02:00Austin Common PD. I'll

1:02:02>> second it.

1:02:03>> Motion and a second. Discussion.

1:02:06Miss Richards, anything under discussion

1:02:08for you?

1:02:13I take that as a note. [laughter]

1:02:15>> Sorry.

1:02:17Unmuting myself. No comments for

1:02:19discussion. Thank you.

1:02:20>> Okay. Thank you. Uh all in favor of the

1:02:22motion, please say I.

1:02:23>> I.

1:02:24>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

1:02:26Thank you.

1:02:27>> Thank you.

1:02:27>> Now move to our second discussion item.

1:02:30And it's amendment number one to the

1:02:33number five mixeduse downtown

1:02:34development project agreement for the

1:02:37flat iron mixeduse development and

1:02:40principal planner Rachel Smith will

1:02:42present this item and council may take

1:02:44action. Miss Smith.

1:02:46>> Hello again council. This item is

1:02:49amendment one to the number five

1:02:50mixeduse downtown development project

1:02:52agreement for the property at 602 West

1:02:55Chattam Street and 523 Old Apex Road.

1:02:59Tonight, I'll provide some background on

1:03:00the project, outline outline the terms

1:03:02of the original agreement, and cover the

1:03:04key terms of the amendment before you

1:03:06for consideration tonight.

1:03:10Two names come up with this project.

1:03:12Number five refers to the site's

1:03:14original gas station, the fifth in its

1:03:16franchise, and known on the books as the

1:03:18number five.

1:03:21Flat Iron is the development's name,

1:03:23taken from the property's triangular

1:03:25wedgelike shape, which gives the

1:03:26building an iron-shaped silhouette.

1:03:33Council approved the resoning and the

1:03:35original development agreement for this

1:03:36site together in December of 2022.

1:03:40The resoning went from town center

1:03:42mixeduse district to town center

1:03:44highintensity mixeduse district.

1:03:47The site is comprised of two parcels

1:03:49that collectively sum to about 2 acres.

1:03:53602 West Cadam was most recently the

1:03:56former Sitco gas station which has been

1:03:58removed and 523 Old Apex Road has a

1:04:02small warehouse building previously used

1:04:04as an automobile repair facility.

1:04:09The irregular shape of the property and

1:04:11its considerable roadway frontage,

1:04:13nearly 900 linear feet, have design

1:04:15implications in the site's

1:04:17redevelopment.

1:04:19In terms of the imagine Kerry community

1:04:20plan, the property sits within the

1:04:22downtown Kerry special planning area,

1:04:25West Chattam Gateway sub area,

1:04:28and is within K's downtown business

1:04:30improvement district established to

1:04:32encourage private redevelopment and

1:04:34investment in the downtown core.

1:04:38In addition to the approved resoning,

1:04:40the development agreement locked in

1:04:43a mixeduse building with 150 to 200

1:04:46multifamily units, a building height of

1:04:5050 to 75 ft,

1:04:535,000 to 10,000 ft of commercial space,

1:04:57at least 10 EV or electric vehicle

1:05:00charging stations,

1:05:03at least 400 square ft of pvious or

1:05:05green roof area, Facades

1:05:10with 5% more masonry than would

1:05:12otherwise be required by the community

1:05:13appearance manual or CAM.

1:05:17Elimination of the existing private pump

1:05:20station and replacement with municipal

1:05:22gravity sewer lines and pedestrian

1:05:25improvements including one pedestrian

1:05:28beacon.

1:05:31The flat iron development plan was

1:05:32submitted by Kain Realy in December of

1:05:352025. and now has had several rounds of

1:05:38technical review by the applicant and

1:05:40staff. Meaning there is a greater

1:05:42engineered understanding of the site

1:05:44context, land development ordinance

1:05:46requirements and development objectives.

1:05:50Opportunities for additional public

1:05:52utility benefits to the area and system

1:05:55beyond the needs of the site have been

1:05:57identified

1:05:59and streetscape and pedestrian

1:06:01improvements have been designed to match

1:06:03site conditions and best practices.

1:06:08In addition to the understanding

1:06:09provided by the plan review process,

1:06:13market and financial conditions have

1:06:15shifted since 2022

1:06:18and the passage of a recent House bill

1:06:20by the state legislature means Carrie

1:06:22could no longer sit set parking

1:06:24minimums.

1:06:26This combination of added clarity and

1:06:29change conditions has identified terms

1:06:31that facilitate better community

1:06:32outcomes with less public investment.

1:06:38Here are the key terms of this

1:06:39amendment.

1:06:41The amendment restructures, simplifies,

1:06:44and as I mentioned, reduces K's

1:06:46financial commitment.

1:06:48The original agreement had two

1:06:50reimbursement obligations which were

1:06:52estimated collectively at up to $2.5

1:06:54million in 2022.

1:06:57The amendment proposes crediting back

1:07:00the actual utility development fees

1:07:02incurred by the project of approximately

1:07:041 million.

1:07:06This is a $ 1.5 million cut from Car's

1:07:09total potential obligation.

1:07:13The permitted multif family units go up

1:07:15by 50 units from 150 to 200 to 200 to

1:07:19250 while building height and all other

1:07:22design obligations stay unchanged.

1:07:28A minimum parking commitment of 271

1:07:30spaces is now included. Locking in

1:07:33parking after parking minimums go away

1:07:35when state legislation takes effect in

1:07:37January.

1:07:40And as the public improvements have

1:07:42scaled up, the amendment reclassifies

1:07:44the pump station elimination and the

1:07:46sewer and water main work as public

1:07:48improvements and refineses the

1:07:50streetscape and pedestrian and bicycle

1:07:52facilities, which I'll walk through next

1:07:54in more detail.

1:07:59The new exhibit E to the amendment shows

1:08:01the streetscape and pedestrian

1:08:03improvements the develop developer will

1:08:05build along the site frontage.

1:08:08This includes 14 soil cells or sila

1:08:11cells and green infrastructure

1:08:15plus pedestrian and bicycle facilities

1:08:17that exceed standard requirements

1:08:19including a covered bus shelter that is

1:08:22integrated into the building

1:08:25as well as wider sidewalks.

1:08:29As discussed in the staff report, the

1:08:31developer is proposing a rectangular

1:08:33rapid flashing beacon at the West Cadam

1:08:35and West Park Street crosswalk as part

1:08:37of a design modification request through

1:08:39the development plan review process,

1:08:41which keeps the town's flexibility to

1:08:43evaluate the request on its own merits.

1:08:47The new exhibit F shows the public

1:08:50utility improvements.

1:08:53This includes the the elimination of a

1:08:56private pump station

1:09:00and connecting to a new public gravity

1:09:02sewer main to the existing public line,

1:09:06thus bringing off-site properties to the

1:09:08north into the public system with new

1:09:10service laterals.

1:09:14Developer will also extend public water

1:09:16man and the West Cadam Street rightway.

1:09:23By offering an estimated 1 million

1:09:25utility fee credit under the amended

1:09:27agreement, Carrie gained substantial

1:09:29public utility improvements built in

1:09:30coordination with the project rather

1:09:33than funding this same work with capital

1:09:35dollars later. The FY2028 budget will

1:09:39anticipate this credit by revising

1:09:41projected fee revenues and future

1:09:43budgets won't carry the capital cost of

1:09:45these public utility improvements.

1:09:50This evening, council may make a

1:09:52decision on the proposed amendment.

1:09:54Staff recommends that council adopt the

1:09:56attached resolution approving amendment

1:09:59one to the downtown development project

1:10:00agreement for the number five mixeduse

1:10:02development. I'm happy to answer any

1:10:05questions that you may have.

1:10:06>> Thank you, Miss Smith. Mr. Richards, any

1:10:08questions or comments?

1:10:11>> My only comment is this feels like a

1:10:14win-win for the town. We are getting uh

1:10:17even more from this uh from the plan,

1:10:21the original development plan for less

1:10:23investment of town dollars, including

1:10:25the improved streetscapes and pedestrian

1:10:28improvements. And much like the

1:10:30conversation we just had about smaller

1:10:33square footage units, meaning that those

1:10:36units then might be naturally affordable

1:10:39housing by virtue of being smaller. I

1:10:42think increasing the number of units

1:10:45means we will get more smaller square

1:10:48footage units and we just talked about

1:10:50those virtues and so for those reasons I

1:10:53am supportive.

1:10:54>> Thank you Miss Richards. Open it up to

1:10:57colleagues at the table questions or

1:10:59comments. Well, I I guess I'll go first.

1:11:02And those of you here know sometimes I

1:11:05talk about the fact that I look for

1:11:06problems or detailed problems and um and

1:11:11I had a lot of questions, not detailed

1:11:14problems, but really needed additional

1:11:18detail about how this was going to work.

1:11:20And um full disclosure, it's a tenth of

1:11:23a mile away from my house. So yes, I'm

1:11:26as some people may say, I can see it

1:11:29from there. Um, I actually I think

1:11:32there's so much to be excited about this

1:11:34project because when it first came four

1:11:37years ago, we had some some quite lively

1:11:41discussions about what well first what a

1:11:43flat iron could be and thank you uh for

1:11:45explaining that some folks didn't know

1:11:47that a flat iron billing actually

1:11:49represented an iron. So that's helpful

1:11:52for some people. Um, but I think there's

1:11:54so much to be excited about because it

1:11:57does several things. It reduces the

1:12:00originally approved amount that we were

1:12:03going to partner with the developer on

1:12:07um from original 2.5 million to um about

1:12:12a million which is quite a cost savings.

1:12:14The integrated bus stop is quite unique

1:12:17because today two of the bus stops

1:12:20around there one's actually in the dirt

1:12:23um and another one across the street is

1:12:25actually on a nice concrete pad. But I

1:12:27don't think we've seen in Carrie an

1:12:29integrated bus stop yet.

1:12:31>> It's pretty exciting.

1:12:32>> It's pretty exciting for those of us who

1:12:33take the bus from time to time. Um the

1:12:36wider sidewalks, the pedestrian beacon,

1:12:39which we hear so many people so excited

1:12:41about now at the right place. Um, and

1:12:45the new public water man is really

1:12:48exciting because we had to put on hold

1:12:52um a sidewalk on that side of the street

1:12:54coming down because we didn't have um

1:12:58enough money to do that new public water

1:13:00main feature. So, that actually starts

1:13:02that process so we can continue safer

1:13:05mobility down that street. So, um I I

1:13:09think it has so many great components of

1:13:13it. I'm definitely supportive of it.

1:13:16>> Other comments or questions?

1:13:17>> Could you go back to the parking slide?

1:13:23I'm pretty sure I understand. But

1:13:28[clears throat]

1:13:29I mean, I understand that

1:13:32with the changes in

1:13:35the changes the legislature has made

1:13:37that

1:13:39we can't hold developers to parking

1:13:42commitments. vote.

1:13:47I mean, nothing changed from when we met

1:13:50with them before, except for they don't

1:13:53have to do the parking. Is that

1:13:56what you're saying? I mean, they they've

1:13:57written it in here.

1:13:59>> The 271

1:14:01um obligation was written in after they

1:14:03met with you.

1:14:04>> Okay.

1:14:06>> Can you clarify further?

1:14:09They could by right develop with no

1:14:11parking spaces whatsoever if they wanted

1:14:13nobody to ever come to their business or

1:14:15live there

1:14:16>> after January 1st.

1:14:17>> After January 1st and we can legally

1:14:21accept a condition for a parking minimum

1:14:24>> in the development agreement. You can

1:14:27>> this is not in the resoning.

1:14:28>> This is in the development agreement.

1:14:29>> Okay. We can in the development

1:14:31>> and the original development agreement

1:14:32didn't talk about parking because we had

1:14:34>> there was no need to.

1:14:36>> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. But

1:14:39I I'll just share a couple of quick

1:14:41observations and an anecdote as usual.

1:14:44Um this is

1:14:46this is a you described it as a mutually

1:14:49beneficial amendment and I think that's

1:14:51a bit of an understatement. Um the

1:14:56increase in units that additional

1:14:59potential 50 units at at this um in this

1:15:03development. we were invited to meet

1:15:05with the applicant's team and their um

1:15:08attorney and some of our staff so that

1:15:09it could be explained to us. Um so they

1:15:12they brought us the you know changes and

1:15:14basically the details to remind us of

1:15:16this project when they were requesting

1:15:18that we consider this amendment. And at

1:15:21the time it was explained to me that the

1:15:23building itself was going to be no

1:15:25bigger. It would just have more units in

1:15:27it. And I want to make absolutely sure I

1:15:29have that correct. Okay. So that that is

1:15:33why we see this as potentially um more

1:15:36affordable housing, not probably

1:15:38affordable, but um long-term

1:15:41uh a little bit less expensive because

1:15:43of the size, although it's a really

1:15:45really great location, and I think this

1:15:47is going to be a highly desirable place

1:15:50for folks to live. So I think at least

1:15:52for the immediate future, it's going to

1:15:54it's going to be at a premium. But the

1:15:57the the applicant, I just I've got to

1:15:59commend you for reading the room. I

1:16:02don't think anybody's ever read the room

1:16:03better. They came with like there was

1:16:06something for everybody in this

1:16:08amendment, right? And it was I didn't

1:16:11even know about the covered integrated

1:16:12bus stop until now.

1:16:14>> Um I've not seen that before. I was just

1:16:17like oo, you know, like this is it's it

1:16:19that felt um really insightful because

1:16:22of the location especially. Um, it's not

1:16:25too far off of what I believe is going

1:16:27to be the destination for BRT when that

1:16:30is built. Correct. So, you'll be able to

1:16:32get from from this area to downtown

1:16:36Raleigh pretty darn fast. And that's

1:16:38that's that's exciting. But this public

1:16:41infrastructure

1:16:43um obviously it very much benefits your

1:16:46development, but it also very much devel

1:16:49benefits the taxpayers of Kerry. Uh, so

1:16:51I was really thrilled to see that.

1:16:53Obviously that uh the trail it's it's a

1:16:56lot of places for people to walk. We

1:16:58already have a lot of people walking

1:17:00over there and now they'll be able to

1:17:02walk on a wider path and they won't fry

1:17:05like beetles. Uh because you'll have a

1:17:07very significant number of mature trees

1:17:10lining the the project. So, I just

1:17:12wanted to because I feel enthusiastic

1:17:14about this project. I wanted to make

1:17:15sure to say all those things really

1:17:17enthusiastically into here because this

1:17:20since I joined council four years ago,

1:17:22we've been talking about this project. I

1:17:25feel like it I feel like it's totally

1:17:27different um and very I think

1:17:29significantly improved. That's that's my

1:17:31opinion on this one. So very much

1:17:33>> and not only can the people living there

1:17:35benefit from that covered integrated

1:17:39into the building bus shelter,

1:17:41>> but that's a public bus shelter. I mean

1:17:45it's it's a public bus. So the people

1:17:47walking on those new improved pedestrian

1:17:51areas can also use the bus. So

1:17:54>> you're tickled.

1:17:54>> Oh, I'm so excited. [laughter]

1:17:57>> They're coming. I um so Rachel, could

1:18:00you turn the next one to the saving of

1:18:04car's $1.5 million?

1:18:07>> Um the financial commitment reduce car's

1:18:12financial commitment that's the

1:18:14applicants voluntarily to reduce uh to

1:18:19pay more for this project, right? So

1:18:21could save the towns. It's just a

1:18:24completely different structuring

1:18:26>> of who pays for what and who does what.

1:18:28>> Okay. So I I feel it's quite responsible

1:18:32uh um applicant developer trying to uh

1:18:36build a very good relationship with

1:18:39Kerry and I'm I'm very excited for this.

1:18:43Um and I'm very excited for the first

1:18:46flat iron building in Kerry because the

1:18:48first one I saw was in um New York. I

1:18:52think this is the second actually. I

1:18:53think there's one at the other end of

1:18:55Chadam that exists.

1:18:56>> That's right. Soon to be popping. I

1:18:59promise you that.

1:19:00>> This one will be more famous I think.

1:19:01>> Yeah. So almost Cadam the two the two

1:19:05ends are bookended by Flat Iron

1:19:07Buildings which it's like we planned it.

1:19:09That's pretty cool.

1:19:10>> I think there's a t-shirt coming in that

1:19:13flat iron book end.

1:19:14>> Yeah. Flat iron book. And I I I just

1:19:16wanted to ask um especially the the more

1:19:19tenured and experienced council members,

1:19:21this appear like this type of sort of

1:19:24pivot away from the town having to

1:19:28invest more in developments to get uh

1:19:31you know more cool stuff built in that

1:19:34area. It's this seems to be a pivot

1:19:35where I feel as though the investment in

1:19:38downtown has paid off and now folks

1:19:41really want to be there. Um, and so

1:19:44they're they're willing to invest more

1:19:47in the media area. Um, and I hope to see

1:19:50uh more things come in with this sort of

1:19:53pivot towards, you know, don't ask us

1:19:56what we can do for you, but what can you

1:19:58do for our our downtown neighborhoods?

1:20:02>> Um, I don't know if I maybe I'm

1:20:04misreading that, but I do I feel like

1:20:06there's a lot of people who really want

1:20:07to be near the downtown corridor, both

1:20:09business and residential. I wanted to

1:20:12say one more thing and perhaps other

1:20:14council members can help me because I'm

1:20:16not sure exactly how to word it, but

1:20:19some of the things I've been seeing on

1:20:21social media

1:20:23for for people who

1:20:26are not excited about more densely

1:20:29developed areas,

1:20:32even when we talk about destination

1:20:34areas and residents putting the time to

1:20:38sit for the planning of the imaginary

1:20:40plan and things like that to determine

1:20:42where the density would be. Some people

1:20:48are not realizing and so I wanted to

1:20:51state it again that

1:20:54this was approved previously by a

1:20:56previous council and that this is an

1:20:58amendment and I I know it's it's on the

1:21:01screen it says amendment key points like

1:21:03I know I just wanted to state it one

1:21:04more time that this is

1:21:08we're probably it hasn't come for a lot

1:21:11of discussion like you know when we get

1:21:14something for the first time we have the

1:21:15public hearing hearings and over and

1:21:17over four months we are talking about

1:21:19it. So that is the difference with this.

1:21:21It was already

1:21:23already approved by a previous council

1:21:25and it's just the amendment tonight.

1:21:28>> That's right. And they could build today

1:21:29under the currently approved which would

1:21:32cost Carrie

1:21:34a million and a half dollars more. We'd

1:21:36have a lot less.

1:21:38>> So yeah, good point.

1:21:40>> We ready for a motion?

1:21:42>> Yes.

1:21:44You want to join?

1:21:47>> I think I can.

1:21:48>> Or do you have it?

1:21:49>> Yeah.

1:21:50>> Great.

1:21:50>> Um I um I I propose that we adopt the

1:21:55attached resolution approving amendment

1:21:57for downtown number five flat iron

1:22:00development.

1:22:02>> Motion

1:22:03>> and the second discussion.

1:22:06>> Miss Richards, anything under

1:22:08discussion?

1:22:10>> No additional comments, mayor.

1:22:11>> Okay. All in favor of the motion, please

1:22:13say I. I.

1:22:15>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

1:22:18Our third item was removed from the

1:22:20agenda at the beginning of the meeting

1:22:22when we amended the agenda and that is

1:22:25the smoking ordinance which we will come

1:22:28to at our next meeting. And that takes

1:22:31us to our fourth and final item which is

1:22:35transportation and mobility committee

1:22:38committee to a formal board for

1:22:40council's operations procedure. The

1:22:42council as a whole may take one of the

1:22:45following actions. Discuss the issue and

1:22:48take action at the meeting if no

1:22:51information is required from staff and

1:22:53if council does not seek public input.

1:22:56refer the request to a future meeting at

1:22:58which time staff with staff

1:23:00recommendations will be prepared decide

1:23:03not to pursue the council initiated

1:23:06item. So this was initiated by council

1:23:09by Mayor Pro Tim Bush and so I'll turn

1:23:11it over to her for her comments.

1:23:14>> Thank you mayor. Um, so for those of you

1:23:16who aren't aware, the transportation

1:23:19working group was actually established

1:23:21through a council initiated item. At the

1:23:23same time, we did the senior advisory

1:23:27board and oh, the um, human relations,

1:23:32inclusivity, and diversity board. Um,

1:23:34those out of those three, two of those

1:23:36have already been uh, changed into

1:23:39formal boards and that happened in 2020.

1:23:43and um they began meeting in 2021. And

1:23:47since that time, this group who've been

1:23:49meeting now for about five years,

1:23:52they've been a great uh ongoing forum

1:23:55mostly um for staff to leverage um where

1:23:59they have great discussions about

1:24:00transportation mobility issues. They've

1:24:03looked at some um our bike plan, our

1:24:06BRT, our um master plans, and other

1:24:09transportation initiatives. and they've

1:24:12acted in many ways like like a formal

1:24:15advisory board. They had regular

1:24:17meetings. You can even if you're online

1:24:19today, you can look up some of their

1:24:21presentations and see what they talked

1:24:23about. Um and even

1:24:27even though they are a working group,

1:24:30they we haven't really had a lot of

1:24:31change. They're um the membership is

1:24:34through the staff, not through a council

1:24:38um opportunity. And there's no way for a

1:24:41citizen to just or resident to just say,

1:24:44"Hey, I have some transportation ideas.

1:24:46I would like to apply for this for this

1:24:49board." Because they're not a formal

1:24:50recognized board. Um and I my thought

1:24:55was that it might be time to have

1:24:58transition this ad hoc board working

1:25:02board to move to a formal board

1:25:05especially as we're encountering more

1:25:07pedestrian safety mobility concerns as

1:25:10transit is expanding

1:25:13um we see now um transit expanding to

1:25:16maybe west Kerry and to South Kerry and

1:25:19as new conversations come online Um so I

1:25:23uh asked for us to discuss this, see

1:25:25what that might look like. Um as an

1:25:28aside,

1:25:30many of our um sister municipalities

1:25:33have either bike, pedestrian,

1:25:35transportation working groups, and I

1:25:37think that we could have some great

1:25:40insight from our the intellectual

1:25:43capital that is in Kerry in this

1:25:47important area. Um so I thought I'd

1:25:49bring it forward as a idea to transition

1:25:51and I asked um the member of go triangle

1:25:55[laughter] faong to to um participate.

1:25:59>> Yeah. Thank you uh Mayor Pretan Bush. I

1:26:01am happy to second this item. Um I'm a

1:26:06the new council member and was appointed

1:26:08last year by mayor to the go triangle

1:26:11and I see the this area the

1:26:14transportation and transit is developing

1:26:16very fast. The new um uh mobility hub

1:26:20for the go triangle and also carrier is

1:26:22going to develop our new hub as well. Uh

1:26:26I see the the needs of this area but we

1:26:29don't have a formal transportation and

1:26:31mo mobility uh committee and I know our

1:26:36transportation director and our transit

1:26:38director Kelly and Cassie they are so

1:26:42busy. Uh the residents send me emails to

1:26:45me and we have different information and

1:26:49with the residents. So when they saw the

1:26:51buses uh not fully occupied and when

1:26:54they see some sidewalks why we we don't

1:26:57have enough sidewalks in south island of

1:27:00Kerry.

1:27:02a lot of these kinds of questions uh and

1:27:05our staff is very uh prompt uh responded

1:27:09to our residents but I think we need

1:27:12more residents voices and put those to a

1:27:15a formal committee and even we they have

1:27:19for uh regular meetings and could put

1:27:21those issues into their like the

1:27:24planning zoning. So we could consider

1:27:27even with new um development they have

1:27:30the new corridor uh transportation study

1:27:33they could learn this first and

1:27:35communicate with public. So I think this

1:27:38will I only see the benefit for the town

1:27:41council and our town. So I really uh

1:27:44would love to uh bring this uh from

1:27:46mayor Bush to discuss with you all and

1:27:50also uh here this one is not going to

1:27:53overburden our staff. I'm willing to

1:27:56relieve our staff to bring more issues

1:27:58to the board so they could discuss more

1:28:02because there are a lot of um

1:28:04professionals

1:28:05professionals in carry their

1:28:07transportation or transit professionals.

1:28:09They could uh study first and bring us

1:28:12more options like for us to make a

1:28:15choice give us more options and um yeah

1:28:19that's what I think. Thanks,

1:28:21>> Miss Richards. Any comments?

1:28:25>> Yes, Mayor. Uh, thank you, Mayor Prom

1:28:27Bush. I think knowing that history was

1:28:29particularly helpful to know that we

1:28:31have two other formal boards that were

1:28:34suggested at the same time as the

1:28:36transportation and mobility committee

1:28:38that have since transitioned into

1:28:39becoming formal boards. So, that parody

1:28:42I think is is compelling and I think if

1:28:44we find value in the committee, then

1:28:47recognizing it as a formal board makes

1:28:49sense. And so the action that my

1:28:52colleagues take tonight, I support

1:28:53whichever of the um uh options that are

1:28:56available to us for a council initiated

1:28:58item.

1:28:59>> Thank you. Um I'll weigh in pass it

1:29:02down. My concern is what does this mean?

1:29:05Staff staff has a list of items that

1:29:08they could probably do 1/4th of in the

1:29:11next year and this adds to that list.

1:29:14Would it be better in the next budget

1:29:16year? I don't know. But I would like to

1:29:18know the staff impact and if staff come

1:29:20back and says maybe at the next meeting

1:29:23say hey we got this no big impact let's

1:29:26do it then I'm fine with that I just

1:29:28want to know what the staff impact is I

1:29:31don't want to continue to pile on which

1:29:33is what I feel like we've been doing so

1:29:36that's my only concern other than that

1:29:38great idea

1:29:39>> I will share that so that folks are

1:29:42aware this is a working group that does

1:29:45have minutes presentation posted um

1:29:49right so there a lot of that work that's

1:29:52being done by some of the great staff

1:29:54that we have um is there and in place

1:29:58and will continue likely one way or the

1:30:01other whether a formal board or not but

1:30:03I do recognize that being a formal board

1:30:06does have you know well I I'm not sure

1:30:09if they did went through ethics

1:30:10trainings on a on a working group but

1:30:13obviously there are some of the things

1:30:15that associated assiated with that but

1:30:17you know there are WebEx meetings set up

1:30:19so a lot of that work is already done

1:30:21today it's not like we're starting from

1:30:23scratch

1:30:25>> other thoughts comments

1:30:30>> for for the emails and the communication

1:30:32that I get that are not

1:30:35zoning related it's feels like it's

1:30:38predominantly transportation pedestrian

1:30:41safety things like that are the

1:30:43questions that I get often So I'm feel

1:30:47like I'm constantly

1:30:49emailing Cassie

1:30:52like it feels like every other day at

1:30:54this point.

1:30:54>> I agree.

1:30:56So I I think we

1:30:58we definitely

1:31:01just need more people power in the you

1:31:04know in the thought process of of this

1:31:07and and it would be my hope that that

1:31:10could potentially

1:31:12relieve a tiny bit of the burden for

1:31:14staff. Al although I'm still going to

1:31:16call Cassie.

1:31:20>> Anything else? I just

1:31:22I I

1:31:24truly believe that our advisory boards

1:31:28are absolute gems when it comes to

1:31:31feedback and input and and I know it is

1:31:35a lot to manage. just the logistics of

1:31:38it is is

1:31:40I don't know the burdensome is the word

1:31:42but it's a lot for staff but there the

1:31:45feedback is is so valuable that I as far

1:31:48as I'm concerned we can't have too many

1:31:51advisory boards

1:31:53sorry

1:31:55>> let me ask a question before I ask for a

1:31:58motion is there any way to get impact

1:32:01information at the next meeting if we

1:32:04decided to make a decision at at that

1:32:06point or is that just piling on more to

1:32:09ask you for impact information?

1:32:11>> I think if we're looking at what the

1:32:13initiated items are, if you wanted us to

1:32:16bring back options and information, we

1:32:19do that in the form of a motion. Um, and

1:32:21if we'll do that as quickly as we can. I

1:32:23don't want to necessarily hone us in to

1:32:25the next meeting, but if it's

1:32:27>> a small amount of information, we can

1:32:28bring it back quicker. If it's a larger

1:32:29amount of information, that takes

1:32:31longer. The the reason

1:32:33>> I kind of was was pushing a little bit

1:32:35is because our new boards and

1:32:37commissions come online

1:32:39>> October next month.

1:32:40>> Yeah.

1:32:41>> October.

1:32:41>> So trying to line them up would be

1:32:43perfect. So

1:32:45>> that's the only thought if we're going

1:32:46that route. I have no idea where we're

1:32:48going.

1:32:49>> Yeah. I'm not sure when we converted

1:32:51senior advisory board or the H if we did

1:32:55an impact, but they were both working

1:32:58groups

1:32:59>> and obviously were in a different piled

1:33:01on though.

1:33:02>> Sure. Sure. Sure.

1:33:03>> Yeah.

1:33:05>> But um well, I'll I'll make a motion.

1:33:07See if it fails. I'll make a motion that

1:33:09we um

1:33:12we move forward with uh converting the

1:33:15transportation working group uh idea

1:33:18into a formal um transportation and

1:33:21mobility

1:33:22uh board. I don't know if commission

1:33:25board. Some of them are boards. Some are

1:33:27the comm are there rules around that? I

1:33:29would say to go with board to be more

1:33:31consistent.

1:33:32>> Board would be okay.

1:33:33>> Can I ask a question?

1:33:34>> Sure.

1:33:34>> Well,

1:33:35>> can we get a second first?

1:33:36>> Second.

1:33:37>> Thank you.

1:33:37>> Can I ask a question? So, we have 189

1:33:41applicants uh this year for the the

1:33:44total uh boards. So, if this passed, can

1:33:48we pick the applicants from that pool?

1:33:51>> You can do anything you want.

1:33:52>> Oh. Oh.

1:33:54>> Council can do anything they want with

1:33:55boards and commission. You can wipe them

1:33:57clean and start over,

1:33:59>> okay,

1:33:59>> if you wanted to. I wouldn't recommend

1:34:01that,

1:34:02>> but uh you can do anything you want. So,

1:34:04if this council decided they wanted to

1:34:05create a new transportation mobility

1:34:08board and pick from current applicants,

1:34:10you can certainly do that.

1:34:11>> Yeah, we are responsible council

1:34:13members. [laughter]

1:34:14>> Yeah. But realistically, it did do you

1:34:18envision keeping the roster that

1:34:21currently serves on the committee,

1:34:23converting it to one of our formal

1:34:25advisory boards, and then having the

1:34:28future appointments, be part of the the

1:34:31June recruitment that we already do um

1:34:34and have a council member own the

1:34:36appointment process and then a staff

1:34:38liaison. So, it would function the same

1:34:40as our other advisory boards.

1:34:42>> Exactly. I believe that was the similar

1:34:44way we did for the senior board.

1:34:47>> Uh HR ID,

1:34:48>> sorry. H I thank you. Where just

1:34:51basically rolled into an official board.

1:34:53>> I made I made that assumption, but I

1:34:55figured I'd

1:34:56>> say it out loud.

1:34:56>> Summarize

1:34:57>> it. I to be fair uh the people that are

1:34:59currently on the board, some of them

1:35:01have been on for five years. Uh some

1:35:04filled some slot. There were a couple of

1:35:06people that filled slots. So in a normal

1:35:09board they would be um meeting the end

1:35:11of their board life you know on on this

1:35:15but I think many of them would want to

1:35:16continue

1:35:18>> and uh I just want to comment

1:35:21because this year is my first time to

1:35:23interview the applicants and I feel our

1:35:26residents care residents are so willing

1:35:28to be on the board so this one I feel

1:35:31there's one more opportunity for them to

1:35:33serve like more um it'll be very honor

1:35:39for them to

1:35:40>> more spies.

1:35:41>> Yes, that's great.

1:35:43>> So, I'm very sensitive to staff impact,

1:35:46so I'm not going to support this. I

1:35:48would prefer to find out what that

1:35:50impact was before I continue to pile on.

1:35:53As I said, we have pages and pages of

1:35:55requests for staff and this is not even

1:35:58on those pages. Uh, so this is another

1:36:00one and I don't see the urgency. Why

1:36:04can't we wait till the next meeting or

1:36:05the meeting after to get the information

1:36:08we need? Um, and I certainly am in favor

1:36:11of the board being a permanent board.

1:36:14Don't get me wrong, I just want to be

1:36:15careful we don't keep overloading our

1:36:18staff, especially when it's not. We have

1:36:20to do this right now and I don't see

1:36:22this as that kind of urgency. So, those

1:36:26are my comments. Any other comments?

1:36:29Miss Richards, do you have any comments

1:36:31on the motion?

1:36:34Mayor, I I do share your concerns about

1:36:37uh imposing on staff. I'll say at my 3x4

1:36:42yesterday, we had a healthy debate about

1:36:46what actually makes more work for staff.

1:36:49Is it being very deliberative and asking

1:36:52for more data points before we make a

1:36:55decision or is it better to just act

1:36:59decisively and adjust course as

1:37:01necessary? I don't have the answer for

1:37:03that. I can appreciate either side the

1:37:05argument. Um

1:37:08so perhaps the easiest thing for staff

1:37:11actually is to just move forward with

1:37:13Mayor Prom Bush's motion. Um, and so I I

1:37:17will just add that to the record for

1:37:18consideration.

1:37:19>> Okay. Any other comments?

1:37:21>> And to I thought about actually

1:37:23volunteering that I brought that up

1:37:25during our 3x4 this week. Um, just sort

1:37:28of asking like, hey, sometimes do you

1:37:30wish we just make a decision or, you

1:37:32know, um, and it wasn't that it wasn't

1:37:34about this particularly. It was just,

1:37:37you know, in general often our our

1:37:40direction is we need more information

1:37:42and we very much often do need more

1:37:45information. Um, so she's absolutely

1:37:47right. We did have a brief discussion

1:37:49about that in our 3x4s. So we are I

1:37:52think we're trying not to be

1:37:55performatively concerned about staff

1:37:58time, but we are trying to figure out

1:38:01the best way. I think we all are in our

1:38:04own way to not make things any more

1:38:06difficult than they have to be. Um, so

1:38:08I'll just say that was the the spirit in

1:38:10which I offered that question. Um,

1:38:12Council Member Richard said it far

1:38:14better than I did, though I stumbled

1:38:16through it. [laughter]

1:38:17>> Very good. Any other comments? All in

1:38:20favor of the motion, please say I.

1:38:21>> I.

1:38:22>> Those opposed, no. Motion carries four

1:38:24to one.

1:38:26>> That concludes our agenda. We have no

1:38:29closed session. I would entertain a

1:38:30motion to adjurnn. So moved.

1:38:33>> Second.

1:38:33>> Motion and a second. Discussion. All in

1:38:35favor, please say I. I.

1:38:37>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously

1:38:39and we are ajourned. Thank