2026-09-10 - Town Council Meeting

02:19Call to order the September 10th meeting of the Cary Town Council. And at this time I'll recognize Council Member Con Johnson for our ceremonial open.

09:25Thank you, Mayor. As I'm sure everyone is aware, tomorrow is September 11th. There's probably nothing I could say that hasn't been said or that folks don't feel in their hearts.

09:39I think probably the most appropriate way to mark this anniversary and to remember those that, you know, were victims of the attack and who were so brave during and after the attack is to join us in a moment of silence.

09:56Thank you so much. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

10:13Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

10:34First order of business is to adopt the agenda. There has been a request to amend the agenda to include a council initiated item.

10:43The elderly drive crosswalk and interim pedestrian safety improvements to tonight's meeting under discussion. Is there a motion to adopt the amended agenda?

10:56So moved.

10:57Is there a second?

10:58Second.

10:58Second.

10:59Discussion? All in favor, please say aye.

11:01Aye.

11:02Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. That takes us to recognition's reports and presentations. And our first recognition is for Go Carry 25 Anniversary Proclamation.

11:15And before I read this proclamation, it's hard for me to believe that I was on council when we were discussing whether or not we should have transit because we had no transit.

11:26It started with door to door service and then we received federal funds for having fixed routes.

11:32So it's amazing that we've made it 25 years and our Go Carry service continues to grow and I'm proud of that.

11:39So I think it was a good decision at the time and it's still a good decision.

11:42So celebrating that, I would like to read Proclamation. Whereas in 2000, the Cary Senior Citizens and Citizens with Disabilities Task Force presented recommendations to the Cary Town Council that helped establish the foundation for Cary's first public transportation system.

12:04And whereas in August of 2001, Cary launched CTRAN as a door to door transportation service for adults age 60 and older and people with disabilities beginning 25 years of public transit service here in Cary.

12:21And whereas CTRAN expanded service to the general public in 2002 and in 2005, the Cary Town Council approved a five route fixed route bus system connecting the community to employment, education, medical care, business and other destinations.

12:43And whereas Cary continues to expand and improve its transit system through additional routes, Sunday service, passenger amenities, new technology and stronger connections with neighboring communities and the regional transit network.

13:00And whereas in 2016, CTRAN became Go Carry, establishing the name Cary residents know today while continuing the town's commitment to safe, reliable and accessible transportation.

13:17And whereas Go Carry has provided more than 5.75 million passenger trips through its fixed route and door to door services and is supported today by more than 120 employees who contribute to its operations and continued success.

13:41And whereas Go Carry celebrates 25 years of service, Cary recognizes its important role in connecting people and looks toward continuing investment in transit and regional connectivity.

13:56Now, therefore, I, Harold Weinbach, Jr., mayor of the town of Cary, North Carolina, on behalf of the entire Cary Town Council, do hereby recognize and celebrate the 25th anniversary of Go Carry and extend our appreciation to the employees, partners, riders and community members who have contributed 25 years of public transportation here in Cary for claim this 10th day of September 2026.

14:27Thank you to all who have made Go Carry a huge success and we look forward to continuing to expand our services.

14:36All right. So with that, Mr. Overton, I'm going to turn it over to you for an update.

14:42All right. Thank you, Mayor. I have two items for you tonight. I'll start with the usual quick summary of the work session that we just had.

14:48Staff provided counsel and I'd say staff with training on fund balance. We covered definitions, best practices around fund balance amounts and in some different ways fund debt balance can be calculate other than Cary's current policy.

15:02I think this is a good start to a conversation and we'll do more. I anticipate doing other parts of this probably in November and moving forward, I'd expect us to make this at least an annual training for counsel and staff.

15:14Finance Director Kimberly Branch did a great job walking us through a lot of information, quite frankly, a lot of math and if you're interested in learning more, I'd encourage everyone to watch the recording on Cary's YouTube channel.

15:26For my second item, I want to spend a minute on tonight's consent agenda because it looks a little different than what you may have been seeing in the past and moving forward, I think you should expect to continue to look this way or at least something similar.

15:39First, you'll notice there are a lot of items that's a result of the recent changes made by counsel to your delegation of authority resolution and the thresholds for what individual staff, including myself can sign and approve without coming to you.

15:53So now many more items are coming before the council. Some of these are pretty standard items that simply help us keep the Cary machine moving to make all this new information a little easier for the council and residents to follow.

16:05We've grouped the items into buckets. Thank you to Lisa and Jenny for their work in helping us get there tonight. You'll see new designations, including bid awards and contracts, and you'll see some informational items that are being included simply for transparency.

16:20So you can see more of what's happening across the organization with these new designations. This new format is still a work in progress. We'll learn from it, make adjustments where needed and evolve as we go.

16:31Appreciate everyone's support as we work through this together, and that concludes my report tonight.

16:37Thank you, Mr. Overton. We now move to the third item on the agenda public speaks out. We've included instructions for speaking at this forum online and on the printed agenda.

16:49There were three opportunities to participate in public speaks out through written comments by calling in or by attending here in person tonight.

16:59And if you are attending here in person tonight and would like to speak, I would ask that you take a seat in the rows to my right that are highlighted.

17:06Public speaks out speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it's not a public hearing.

17:17The three minute time limit will be enforced, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers.

17:24We have a timer on the podium, which will start out with a green light when it turns yellow. That means you have 30 seconds remaining.

17:32And when it starts flashing red, that's the point I'll interrupt you because your time has expired again, not trying to be rude, but trying to be fair to all of our speakers.

17:42I would like to ask the speakers to be respectful in their comments and direct those comments to the entire council and not to an individual.

17:51And if you're here in the audience, I would ask that you please understand and respect that this is a business meeting.

17:59Please do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use prompts or do anything else that may distract from this business meeting.

18:08So now is the time for public speaks out.

18:11Now, first call on our town clerk for information about written comments and call on any registered speakers.

18:18We received five written comments. These have been emailed to council prior to the meeting, provided a council upon arrival and attached to the online agenda.

18:26We have two registered in-person speakers. They are Pamela Pinckney and Hanif Williams.

18:33Ready to touch anything? Good evening, everybody. I'm Pamela Pinckney.

18:57There's a couple of things in the community that I am concerned about that I would like for you all to consider.

19:04The library needs some updates. There's no options to do faxing, scanning and some things that people may need some services with.

19:15And the round number of bus five, people are walking from Penny, Penny Lane at Penny Drive, Penny, whatever the penny is.

19:28They're walking down to Tryon Road because the route five has signs posted and disabled people are walking from Penny Road down to Tryon Road because the Cary commute does not provide them transportation.

19:50I would ask that you would look at that.

19:52As I stated when I was here last time, I'm a presidential candidate for 2028. P2052.03 is my number and I had a concern for what I saw last week or the last time I was here.

20:05I saw some people crown the mayor a king and then call him a criminal in the same breath and that bothers me because people don't know what it takes to sit in those seats that you sit in.

20:20They just vote you in to your seats but they don't know the sacrifices that you make and the things that you have to go through to make decisions, reasonable decisions for our lives and I was very bothered by that.

20:37As I told you before when I was here, I'm grateful for the sacrifices that you make.

20:44I didn't get to have time with my family because my parents were out in the community but I want us to be more mindful when we come down here to address you all.

20:54To find out what it is that we can do to make it better for you all since we did or you have been elected into these seats and I was a bit offended by the mayor being called a king on one hand and a criminal on the next hand.

21:11People like to see us be more respectful and more compassionate. Many people believe that preachers and political leaders are supposed to be in a merciful position where we are beggars but we're not.

21:27We're leaders and I ask that we would be more respectful and I speak in reference to public comment or anyone coming before you all.

21:35Let us have more compassion for you all and I thank you all very much. Have a good evening.

21:41Our next and last register speaker is Haneff Williams. Mr. Williams. I don't think we'll hopefully Mr. Williams will come in before we finish public speaks out so I'll open up public speaks out to those who have not signed up and invite them forward.

22:12Hello. Hello. Good to see all of you. My name is Jennifer Robinson. I live at 100 Benwell court and following up on the last speaker. Thank you for your service and for all that you do for the citizens of Cary.

22:23I'm coming today because I understand that you may be talking about some larger real estate discussions at the upcoming quarterly meeting and that may involve discussing the library site or what we refer to as the old library site on South Academy Street.

22:40So I wanted to talk a little bit about that. Many of you know I was served on the council I joined the day that Harold served or joined, which was in 1999. And before we even joined the council, the previous council members had already been talking about how to revitalize downtown Cary,

22:59and the mayor and I had the privilege to be part of the group that went through the machinations of planning downtown, and it happened over the course of decades.

23:11It was a very long process to the point where people were saying to us, stop planning start doing right. And so what you see now is the product of those plans and all of the actions that people have taken the South Academy Street areas referred to in our Cary community plan as a historical

23:31and cultural core. The South Academy Street is referred to as a built environment that supports art, cultural activities and community gatherings. It has visions for what we expect to happen in the South Academy Street area, including to the point where it describes

23:51primarily two stories except for landmark public and institutional building so we have this vision set up, looking at the value of the land, the old library site is probably the very most valuable site that we have in Cary, and its value is approximately

24:092 million an acre, a little bit less, a little bit more, depending on how you look at the numbers. So the concern that I have is one that began a couple years ago where people were talking about the idea of possibly putting affordable housing on that site.

24:27There are a lot of sites around Cary that can support affordable housing, and I would suggest that putting it on the most valuable parcel of land in Cary is probably not the best use of the land.

24:40I would liken it to putting affordable housing on your beachfront property, but in addition to that, when you build housing you're building it for a set number of people, and the idea of the South Academy Street area was to be an attractor to use it for

24:58economic development and to generate people coming to Cary and enjoying it. Over the years we've had a bunch of different suggestions for that land. A long time ago when Bill Coleman was the manager, he was talking to the cat's cradle and chat him about it.

25:15I'm sorry, the end. Thank you. I hope you guys are wise. Thank you. Anyone else for public speaks out. Good evening representatives. I hope you're doing well today.

26:05My name is Jenna and I'm the co president of a high school heart club and American Heart Association chapter. I'm here with other members from my chapter to discuss the updates to carry smoking ordinances, as opposed by the American Heart Association.

26:19Currently in Cary, based on both local and state ordinances, smoking and lighted tobacco products are prohibited in many public and enclosed spaces, including Tana carry spaces, restaurants, and hotels.

26:32However, these prohibitions do not extend to cigarettes, more commonly known as vapes, because he cigarettes are not lighted tobacco products.

26:41I asked that the council consider making revisions to the smoking ordinance to carry to include e cigarettes and all aforementioned smoking regulations, as well as extend these regulations to include all indoor spaces.

26:53I asked that such revisions be made due to the detrimental health effects e cigarettes have on users, some even more so than lighted tobacco products, e cigarette liquids are irritating to lung pathways containing chemicals like diacetyl scar lung tissue and lead to lung diseases, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease

27:13with respect to heart health, increasing heart rate, blood pressure and atherosclerosis, eventually leading to strokes over time, the chemicals and e cigarettes also cause issues in brain development, which specifically affects adolescents like myself.

27:27Unfortunately, the list of health detriments continue.

27:30I asked you to keep all these health detriments in mind when you review these smoking ordinances, and hopefully change them in order to benefit the community's health.

27:38I would like to pass it off to my fellow member, Arin, in order to talk about the effects that e cigarettes specifically have on adolescents. Thank you.

27:47As an as an adolescent, I'm aware of how susceptible young individuals my age are to addiction. We are often called screenagers. After all, e cigarettes in particular are particularly addictive to teenagers such as myself nicotine itself is already an addictive substance.

28:19However, for adolescents, it is particularly potent on our still developing minds. Our brains are still growing and have a large amount of plasticity, but brain aims to build connections at a faster pace during this time, leading to addiction pathways being created even even faster.

28:37Our reward centers are still developing, meaning we are more receptive to nicotine, we are more receptive to nicotine addictive properties and more likely to fall into these nicotine addictive properties.

28:49Finally, the flavorings and advertising used by e cigarettes and their companies are targeting younger audiences like myself, increasing adolescent nicotine addiction, implementing smoking ordinances that my fellow member had mentioned would set a better example for students such as myself,

29:06showing a clear stance against e cigarettes would dissuade students from being inclined to try e cigarettes, seeing less of these tobacco products in the community would lead to less teenagers being encouraged to try these products, as well as reduce second hand smoke.

29:20As a student, I asked that this counselor consider the health and well being of adolescents like myself, in particular when reviewing the ordinances, remembering that we are, we are one of the most susceptible to this issue.

29:32I now pass it over to my fellow member namashree another one of another member of the green level high school American Heart Association club to address the qualms about changing the ordinances. Thank you.

29:42>> I understand that there may be potential qualms about such revisions, especially with concerns that businesses such as bars and restaurants may face negative outcomes. However, I would like to direct you to the second page in the handouts I have distributed.

30:10As smoke free regulations are changing every day, many studies have conducted to show the potential effects that these regulations may have on restaurants and bars.

30:19As you can see from the handout, multiple states experienced no statistically significant change in business or revenue sales for restaurants and states like Ohio and Texas.

30:29Another study was conducted to see whether implementation of local based smoke free policies implemented in states like Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, and West Virginia, which showed no negatives on restaurant employment.

30:42West Virginia experienced a significant increase in restaurant employment in smoke free counties.

30:48Overall, smoke free policies did not significantly affect restaurants or bars revenue or employment, especially not in a negative way.

30:56Moreover, these policies can make these spaces more welcoming for employees, families, and other individuals, as well as decrease how much access cleaning these businesses much do.

31:06This encourages businesses for these institutions rather than less.

31:11As we finish off, I would like to pass it off to my fellow member Joshita.

31:15Hi, so my name is Joshita I'm a part of the high school American Heart Association, our school. So I understand that myself and my fellow members have taken up quite a bit of your time this evening, and I thank you for listening for all this time.

31:39Taking all things that myself and my fellow members have spoken, I ask you to consider revising the ordinances to include e-sabrets and all smoking regulations, as well as extend these regulations to include all indoor spaces for the betterment of the public health and well being of students like myself and the community.

31:59Thank you so much.

32:00Thank you. Anyone else for public speaks out saying no one I'll close public speaks out and we'll move to the consent agenda, which is item for for the benefit of people watching our meeting on streaming devices I'll take a moment to review our consent agenda items.

32:23Keep in mind that one vote approves all of these items on the consent agenda we have Council recommended advisory volunteer appointments 26 a oh six Evans Road annexation.

32:3825 a oh nine Jacobs Creek 25 rez 16 Jacobs Creek Lane bid award for the South carry water reclamation facility UV disinfection facility improvement project contracts for janitorial maintenance services notifications for Napa genuine parts purchase order and South wake landfill

33:03order but council members like any of these items pulled from the consent agenda for discussion. If not I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda.

33:14So moved. Second, there's a motion and a second discussion. All in favor of the consent agenda please say aye. Aye. Any opposed motion carries unanimously. We have no public hearing so we'll move to discussion.

33:29The council initiated item is Eterly drive crosswalk interim pedestrian safety improvement initiated by Bella Huang and Lori Bush her policy when a council initiated item first appears on the agenda, the council, as a whole may discuss and take action refer the request

33:48your meeting for a staff report and recommendation, decide not to pursue the request. So first recognize council member for her remarks and then column mayor pro tem bush.

34:01Thank you, Mayor, about this council initiated item, I would love to talk about the history first that crosswalk is close to the symphony Lake Greenway, and it was August 26 in the morning, a pedestrian was crossing the on the crosswalk and was hit by a car, which is

34:28still under investigation. And it was a fatal crash. And the residents, the pedestrian lived in Lionsgate. That was a Wednesday. And Thursday morning, we had, I had a meeting with about nearly 10 staff talking about this incident.

34:53And I need to thanks to our police chief salt and our transportation director Cassie, they did a lot of behind the scene work, and they talked to the duty staff and got got all the information then.

35:10So, this after, before the crash, the duty already approved the budget for that is the pH. Let me check the for permanent pedestrian hybrid beacon PHP, and it will be an installed in 2028, and then the crash happened in August, and then the

35:43DOT give us recommendation that town of Kerry could put an interim safety solution which is rectangular rapid flashing beacon, and that needs to be our town's budget to pay for it.

35:58So, and also last week, house representative house representative, Julie one haven she also contacted duty, and we had a meeting with the Lionsgate HOA and residents, also including the NC Senator Lisa Grafton, three of us talked with the residents, so we heard a lot of concerns about the safety over there.

36:27Some people said we shouldn't put a crosswalk over there, but that was put in 2019, which is because the residents were running across the street, which is even more dangerous.

36:39So we put that in 2019 and thanks to the police department and our transportation department. This Tuesday we had a community meeting, met with, I think there are, there were 40 residents over there, and the mayor pretend Bush was was there, and I was out of town.

37:00And we heard a lot of discussion, but I see that I saw the residents are in a very calm emotion, a lot of good discussion. And now, I would love to move this forward with, we can move forward with, with the temporary interim safety solution about this crosswalk and still looking to

37:28the investigation and study the traffic over there.

37:34And we can learn based on the concerns we should put a crosswalk or not crosswalk but I think that's needs to be a suggestion from the professional investigation.

37:46We need to, Mayor pretend Bush to second this request, and then is to the budget is the most important. It's about 50,000 and need to be our responsibility to move that forward.

38:03So I would love to discuss with our council colleagues to see your ideas and suggestions.

38:11So, first, I would also like to echo councilmember Wong's thanks to staff to the police department to all of all of the folks who've been involved, the, especially the neighbors who came out to the community meeting.

38:28This meeting I actually expected to be quite contentious, but instead it was filled with neighbors wanting to help neighbors, people coming up with all kinds of ideas for how we could address this problem.

38:44I would say half of the room wanted the crosswalk removed and the other half of the room wanted the crosswalk to have the beacon. So, the idea of studying this a little bit more with the support of the North Carolina Department of Transportation

39:01with, by the way, I should also say that Becca from NCDOT was there as well, providing a lot of data to make an evidence based decision.

39:13Also, I will say that one of the interesting items to note if you didn't read the paper, I was surprised to hear that there's more, it's more than just a crosswalk and if you've been to that area, it is a connection to a greenway.

39:30It's right off of a well-used sidewalk and because of the geometry of that road, the limited visibility and the tendency for people to speed, the police were able to, in an enforcement effort right after the accident, ticketed more than 21 people in the span of just a few hours over three days,

39:56which goes also to show that there is a challenge in that area and some behaviors that absolutely need to change.

40:05Obviously, enforcement is, how does the Chief say it, one of the tools in the toolbox along with the upcoming already approved and funded NCDOT beacon.

40:20But why I think this is important and one of the reasons why I seconded it is I'm not sure that the residents here should have to wait two years basically for this problem to be addressed for them.

40:37There are a lot of changes. They talked about guardrails. They talked about a lot of things that are absolutely worth investigation.

40:44But if we have the ability and the funding to do something immediately, to let these neighbors know they shouldn't have to wait for weeks to safely cross the street.

41:00I do support the temporary already approved by NCDOT because this is their road flashing signal at the crossing right now while we wait and do investigation and a permanent one is fully funded by the NCDOT.

41:19So from my perspective, it's fixing an immediate need, addressing an immediate need and a risk, but also still following through on the real solution, the true solution that NCDOT has already approved and funded.

41:36So I'll add in my comments. I can say that the story of this tragedy was just heartbreaking on all sides. The gentleman that hit it with his kids in the car hit her with the kids in the car. That was just crushing.

41:53And the fact that she lost her life that way. I had a mother-in-law lose her life in an accident not that long ago and we suffered through that. So my heart goes out to all of those involved.

42:06On the other hand, I want to make sure that everybody understands that this is a DOT road and I want to ask the question, why can't we do the full improvements and get reimbursed?

42:20Why do the carry taxpayers have to pay twice for their improvements? So if anybody can tell me what DOT's improvements would cost and why they would or would not reimburse us if we go ahead and do those improvements for them, loan them the money to do the improvements.

42:38But it's their responsibility and we've already paid for it and we shouldn't have to pay for it again and they should pay for it now and we can loan them the money if they can't get the money now. But those are my thoughts.

42:52I don't want funds to be taken away. My worst case scenario in my mind is funds taken from the budget in an area, let's say another intersection that's critically dangerous and then we have another tragedy because we move funds. Of course that's a worst case scenario.

43:12I'll tell you what the NCDOT said. That question was asked and perhaps Ms. Cassie can also come and add. But the NCDOT said that one of the reasons they have to wait until October is one is the funding mechanism.

43:30It doesn't come, the actual funds, they're federal funds. It doesn't come until October. Plus there's Duke Power. They have to bring power. They have to buy right away on the sides of the road.

43:43Cassie, do you remember there were three or four things which would make the permanent solution a longer time frame. Whether or not we up fronted the money, I don't know if that would shorten the time frame.

43:56But the cost for temporary in an email that was shared from staff was $50,000 for a temporary. But I'll let Cassie let me know what I got wrong.

44:08I think based on what NCDOT has shared with us and what Bekah said at the meeting, there are some technical issues that will have to be worked out there.

44:17Also, for DOT, it's the federal funding and the requirements that come along federal funding, just the structure of that takes longer was what DOT shared and then capacity from their staffing levels as well.

44:34But the funding shouldn't be the issue. We can front them the money. That's what I'm going to try to get at.

44:39Absolutely. We have not talked with them about that. I can't answer that today.

44:43Do you remember how much the full cost of the permanent -- their grant is for $350,000.

44:51Does the permanent solution include a raised walkway that would serve as a traffic calming and a speed reduction measure?

44:57It does not. Their funding only covers the mast arm that would have the red and yellow lights on it, as well as a little bit of money in case they needed to buy any additional right of way.

45:10They are working on the design right now. They have not finished out the details of the plan yet.

45:19So I'm going to ask another question that you can't answer.

45:23Sure.

45:24If we put in a temporary solution and we have another tragedy because the permanent solution wasn't in place, how effective is this temporary solution?

45:34And I know you can't answer that question, but maybe you can give me some insight of how it would help because I'm still want to go in full.

45:44Let's do it all. We'll fund them the money, get it done as quick as we can, and they pay us back.

45:50And, Mayor, I might suggest, because if you are to ultimately decide to send this back to staff, we'd prepare a staff report to highlight answers to your questions.

46:01If you want to keep doing it on the fly, we can do that, but we're not capturing those details in, say, a report.

46:07So it might be easier to collect information.

46:10Can we do it at the next meeting because I feel urgency from my colleagues, or is that just too fast?

46:18Depending on how many questions you have, but we could start the process.

46:24If some of the process is to ask DOT questions about whether or not fronting the money could make it move faster, depending on their ability to answer that soon or know the answer, we may not have that in the staff report.

46:38If the intent is to move fast, yes, I'd suggest you send it to us so that we could do some research and then get it back to you on an upcoming agenda.

46:46The next meeting is in two weeks.

46:49I have a question, too. Sorry, piggybacking on what Mayor just asked, I probably will rephrase this question a little bit from my understanding.

46:59The issue seems to be more of a driver behavior issue.

47:06So when we put a beacon light, it's just a light flashing when the beacon is, but the other one's a PHP, which is like the one by Cary High School.

47:16I want to also share that, Cassie, if you could explain, the PHP is the highest standard of crosswalk light.

47:25In Cary, you only have three of them, so it's kind of rare to see in the whole Cary traffic lights.

47:33So that's why that crosswalk, I think, is very important to look into just because the DOT has approved the budget for that kind of thing.

47:42No, I'm not saying it's not needed. I'm just saying, is that enough, like just putting a beacon light because it seems like this is a behavior issue.

47:52So is enforcement also needed in addition to the beacon light?

47:58I think as you heard earlier explained, Chief Salt also said that that's just another tool that we have in the toolbox.

48:06The rectangular rapid flashing beacon was recommended as an interim solution by NCDOT. We did not propose that to them,

48:15but they offered that as a solution in the interim as they prepare the design and award the construction for the PHP,

48:25which actually functions more like a traffic signal and why that's the highest standard of pedestrian crossing device that is out there today.

48:35No device you'd be able to guarantee anything, and everything is a behavioral issue at the end of the day.

48:42We are approved, recommended by DOT, NCDOT. That's why we can bring this initiated item here.

48:50Without the DOT's recommendation, we can't do anything on that crosswalk.

48:55And DOT is not willing to fund the temporary solution, even though it's their responsibility.

49:04They were not able to offer that right now.

49:06So carry taxpayers have to pay an additional $50,000 to do DOT's job.

49:13Okay. Another question, Cassie. Does that mean all our carry, the DOT's road in carry,

49:23if we need some kind of improvement, I'll pay that carry or that's DOT's funding?

49:30If there's any improvement needed, we work with DOT.

49:36So we have projects in the budget even this year that are on DOT roadways,

49:42but we've gotten permission from them to make those improvements within their roadways.

49:45So we have balanced out spending carry dollars to make those improvements on NCDOT's roads.

49:53Some of those we get through grant funding, which is also, you know, which is NCDOT allocated funding.

49:58But there's a collaborative effort. But anything we do in DOT's right-of-way, we do have to get permission for.

50:05So that's the carry dollars put on DOT's road is not the first time it should be?

50:13No.

50:14Can you talk about the actual temporary solution?

50:19It would be there for -- should Council decide to do something like this?

50:24It would be there for the interim time between now and when the permanent solution.

50:30Is that then -- is that an asset of the town that's then used somewhere else at a later time?

50:36Yes, we are spec'ing things that we could then remove and put somewhere else.

50:40That's a good question.

50:41We would use that.

50:42So we would invest in that and be able to use it again.

50:45Okay.

50:46I feel better about that.

50:47That was my primary question was whether we could get some mileage out of this once the permanent infrastructure is in here.

50:56May I request, Chief Sald if you're comfortable doing so, can you give us some enlightenment or an opinion on whether or not long-term speeding

51:06enforcement is a solution to a problem such as poor behavior at or near pedestrian crossings?

51:13I regularly hear folks requesting, you know, why don't the police pull everybody over all the time is essentially what it boils down to.

51:22Of course, it's never said that way.

51:23And I'm wondering if you could just share some thoughts on that, you know, as a tool in the toolbox and what kind of maybe operational or budgetary burdens that places.

51:34Yeah, my younger days when I was writing a lot of citations, one of the common questions I get is why didn't you write everybody else and stop everybody else.

51:41One of me.

51:43It's long time enforcement for a specific location is not sustainable.

51:49That's the bottom line.

51:50We don't have the resources to cover the problems we have there.

51:54The other intersections and locations where we've had fatality accidents or serious injury accidents.

52:00We don't have enough resources to just cover the school zones for speeding enforcement.

52:05And that's obviously our most valuable assets as well as our children.

52:11So it is not sustainable.

52:14As we talked about in the meeting on the other night, we were out there and we're going to be there for a while.

52:23We're going to monitor behaviors when they start to slow down that we're going to have to relocate, but we're going to have to maintain this.

52:32It's going to be a maintenance issue as rather a solvability factor.

52:36You know, we have to look at each location differently.

52:40This one is a little bit unusual because of the contour of the land, the speed and the design of the road.

52:49DOT and our transportation department has been working on this.

52:55The real issue is we have made adjustments through the years, but the environment has changed through the years.

53:04And so even though a solution of a crosswalk back in 2019, I think you said, was appropriate at that time.

53:12Well, now we've got a through road.

53:14Now we have more traffic and we have a much greater population.

53:18You constantly have to make adjustments in that.

53:21And so, no, it's not sustainable.

53:24Thank you. I appreciate that.

53:25And since I've put you on the spot already, would you be willing to just address how simply lowering a speed limit maybe can help in an issue like this,

53:36but it's not a straight up solution when we have excessive speeding in an area.

53:43And I am not a traffic engineer.

53:46Let me qualify that qualified at the other night.

53:48I want to qualify it tonight.

53:50We've got these folks back here reducing the speed limit, say, by five miles an hour.

53:56It's 40 miles an hour out there at that location.

53:58I really don't think we'll have an impact on that because it's a behavioral issue.

54:04We're dealing with individuals.

54:06You've got the human factor involved, and that's always a factor in every accident that we have.

54:11It's a factor, if not the factor, in this accident.

54:17Distracted driving, you know, we talked about the environment.

54:21There's also new technologies that help distract drivers as well.

54:25And we're always going to be combating those things.

54:29I rarely ever do this.

54:31And, manager, I apologize for it up front.

54:36I think it is probably a wise decision to put a short-term or a temporary solution out there

54:43with lighting that could be moved elsewhere later,

54:49give us a tool that we could use at another location.

54:52And it's simply because of the curve in the road.

54:54It's simply the design of the road for the speeds.

54:57It's simply because we go out there to validate whether speed is an issue or not,

55:01and we determine that within two hours.

55:05And I think a lot of this -- and the other thing that we determined out of this, too,

55:10is most of the drivers that are coming through there are not from the neighborhood.

55:13They're using it kind of as a cut-through.

55:17And so, in this case, I would say it's probably appropriate,

55:23particularly if it's a tool that we could use elsewhere once the funding is approved.

55:30I have a few questions, and thank you to my fellow council members

55:33for marking two off my list, so I don't have six anymore.

55:37When Mayor Pro Tem Bush was talking earlier,

55:43she mentioned about ongoing study.

55:48So I want to just clarify, are we talking about the investigation,

55:53gathering additional information there, or continuing to look at,

55:56or that that crosswalk should be moved, or things like that?

56:00I don't know who is appropriate to answer that.

56:04We'll discuss those with NCDOT.

56:07There were a lot of suggestions from the community on Tuesday night

56:11that would need to be taken into consideration.

56:14There's a lot of conversation still happening.

56:17I think it was October, 2028.

56:20Is that the date that was mentioned?

56:24Is that when it would be installed,

56:26or when they would start the planning process?

56:29That is when they would bid the project for construction.

56:33I just wanted to be really clear that that's going to take a long time.

56:37Is that going to be in 2028?

56:39They're currently working on the design.

56:41I don't know all the requirements that they have to meet for the federal grant,

56:44but the work for the project has started with NCDOT.

56:49Okay, and how long, based on projects we've done before,

56:55I know we have one at Cary High,

56:57how long, if we gave the okay immediately,

57:00how long would we estimate we would be able to have something in?

57:06We don't want to put it in a month before the federal one or whatever.

57:11Yes, the temporary.

57:12How long would that say?

57:13If we go with the rectangular rapid flashing beacon,

57:17we're talking months versus two years.

57:21But for a specific schedule, let us get back to you,

57:23because you have to order the signs.

57:25Months, I think, is what I was looking for.

57:27Plan the install.

57:28And then my last thing is just an advocacy piece.

57:33Far beyond just this crosswalk issue,

57:38I would encourage our residents to reach out to the state legislature

57:43and let them know that you believe increased funding

57:48to the North Carolina Department of Transportation would be a good idea,

57:52because Cary taxpayers are putting the bill for things that are safety issues.

57:58Great point.

58:00Any other questions, thoughts?

58:03Are we ready for a motion?

58:07Yeah, so I'm curious what the best thing to do,

58:12and it seems like if I were to straw pull it,

58:15that people are leaning towards a temporary solution

58:20while we look for a permanent.

58:23Did I read that right?

58:24Yes.

58:25Because I wouldn't want to make a motion.

58:27So do you want to make a motion?

58:29If Mayor Pro Tem could make the motion more specific and accurate,

58:33I would love you to make the motion.

58:36Okay.

58:37So I'll make a motion that we ask staff to move forward

58:43for the temporary weekend while we wait for and continue work

58:50on feedback from the -- that we received from the residents

58:55and with the North Carolina Department of Transportation

58:58and also that we approve funding of $50,000 from the council fund --

59:08Midyear appropriation?

59:09Was it?

59:10Your midyear appropriation?

59:11I couldn't remember the term.

59:13Midyear appropriation, council midyear appropriation fund.

59:17So that -- by the way, I'll make that motion.

59:21Can I --

59:22Someone will second it.

59:23I have a question.

59:24Okay.

59:25Do we want to consider --

59:26Wait a minute.

59:27Can I get a second?

59:28Second.

59:29Okay.

59:30Do we want to consider an amendment just for expediency?

59:32I've used that word like three times today.

59:35Maybe set a higher limit so that if it ends up being

59:39$60,000 or $70,000 or something like that,

59:41like up to a little bit of wiggle room

59:44so that staff doesn't have to come back

59:46and we don't slow things down.

59:48In that vein, if I could --

59:49I want clarification on the slide in front of you.

59:53Are you taking action under item one?

59:56So you're directing action?

59:57Or are you asking staff under bullet two

59:59to come back with more information about these sorts of things?

1:00:02Directing action.

1:00:03Okay.

1:00:04I wanted to be clear.

1:00:06And I used the $50,000 number that was from staff,

1:00:10but if staff is giving the indication

1:00:13that they need more funding, I'm happy to amend my --

1:00:16Oh, they have not --

1:00:17I'm simply thinking with inflation

1:00:19and, you know, things just seem to always go this way.

1:00:22If it's 55,000, don't want to delay work

1:00:25so we could maybe with the expectation of the --

1:00:28My suggestion, make it $50,000 and if we need more,

1:00:31we'll immediately bring something back to you.

1:00:33Okay.

1:00:34And by the way, just made the motion

1:00:37and thank you for the second.

1:00:39But the reason I made it that way is so that staff

1:00:42could move forward without having to wait

1:00:44for another council meeting, especially given the fact

1:00:47that it's going to take a couple of months

1:00:49to do the work anyway.

1:00:50So that's why I made it that way.

1:00:53So we have a motion and a second.

1:00:56All in favor?

1:00:57Aye.

1:00:58Any opposed?

1:01:00The motion carries unanimously.

1:01:01Thank you.

1:01:03We now move to a closed session,

1:01:04and I would entertain a motion.

1:01:06Pursuant to GS 143, 318, 11A, 1, 3, and 6,

1:01:12under that we hold a closed session

1:01:14to consult with attorneys employed by and/or retained

1:01:16by the town in order to preserve the attorney

1:01:19claim privilege between the attorneys in the town

1:01:23to prevent the disclosure of information that is made

1:01:26privileged or confidential pursuant to the laws

1:01:29of the state or not considered a public record

1:01:31within the meeting of Chapter 132 of the general statutes

1:01:34and consider the qualifications, competence,

1:01:36performance, character, fitness, conditions

1:01:39of appointment or conditions of initial employment

1:01:41of one or more individual public officers or employees.

1:01:45There's a motion.

1:01:46Is there a second?

1:01:47Second.

1:01:48Motion and a second.

1:01:49Discussion?

1:01:50All in favor, please say aye.

1:01:51Aye.

1:01:52Any opposed?

1:01:53Motion carries, and we move to closed session in 1035.

1:01:56We will reconvene our council meeting.

4:47:38We have concluded our business.

4:47:40I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

4:47:42So moved.

4:47:43Second.

4:47:44Motion and a second.

4:47:45Discussion?

4:47:46All in favor, please say aye.

4:47:47Aye.

4:47:48Any opposed?

4:47:49Motion carries.