2026-10-08 - Town Council Meeting

02:59Heat. Heat.

03:21I

03:46feel happy.

04:16Call to order the October 8th meeting of

04:19the Kerry Town Council. And at this

04:21time, I'll recognize Council Member

04:23Richards for our ceremonial opening.

04:26>> Thank you, Mayor. So, Monday is Columbus

04:30Day or alternatively, Indigenous

04:33People's Day. And so, whether you are

04:35thinking through the lens of the arrival

04:38of Europeans or the many people who were

04:40already living here, it had me thinking

04:43about community and uh a place that we

04:46call home. And Carrie is a place where

04:50so many of us, maybe even most of us,

04:52have moved from elsewhere, my family

04:55included. And I think that's part of

04:57what makes Kerry really special is that

05:00so many of us have the privilege to

05:02intentionally get to choose to call

05:05Kerry our hometown and that there's a

05:07deep appreciation for what makes us a

05:10unique place to live. So if you were

05:12lucky enough to be born here and live

05:15your whole life here and your family

05:16roots and carry run deep, thank you so

05:19much for welcoming the rest of us and

05:22then also acknowledging the people who

05:24were here before any of us. And so if

05:26you will indulge this history major in a

05:30brief reading of a history passage, this

05:33is also a shameless plug for the books

05:37you can purchase at the page walker. So,

05:39if you do not know, our Page Walker Arts

05:42and History Center has a collection of

05:45local history books for purchase. I have

05:48my parents to thank for adding to my own

05:50personal library. So, this is around and

05:53about Kerry by Thomas Bird and I will

05:55read a very brief passage.

05:59The town of Kerry was incorporated in

06:011871, but that was only a milestone in

06:04the history of this area, not the

06:06beginning of it. People of European and

06:09African ancestry had lived here a

06:11hundred years before Kerry began and

06:13Indians were here 10,000 years before

06:15that. The Tuscerora, an Irakcoy speaking

06:18people, were using this part of North

06:20Carolina as a hunting ground when the

06:22first Europeans arrived on the coast.

06:25However, the power of these Native

06:26Americans had been broken in the

06:27Tuscerura War of 1711 to 14 before

06:31settlers reached this far inland. Those

06:34who who survived moved in 1766 to New

06:37York to live with their distant Irakcoy

06:39relatives. The first white settler here

06:42was Francis Jones who received a 640

06:45acre grant on March 25th, 1749.

06:49The land extended along Crabtree Creek

06:51through part of what is now Preston and

06:53what is now District A. So, if that was

06:57a tantalizing introduction and you want

06:59to read the rest of the book for

07:01purchase at the Page Walker History

07:03Center. And with that, let's rise for

07:05the pledge of

07:05>> allegiance.

07:10Algiance to the flag of the United

07:13States of America and to the republic

07:16for which it stands. One nation under

07:19God, indivisible, with liberty and

07:22justice for all.

07:25Thank you, Miss Richards. I have that

07:26book. Now I got to go back and read it

07:28again.

07:30>> All right. I would like to request an

07:33amendment to tonight's agenda to add the

07:36appointment of a council liaison to the

07:38newly created transportation and

07:41mobility advisory board under

07:43recognitions and reports. So is there a

07:47motion to adopt the agenda as amended?

07:50>> So moved.

07:51>> Second.

07:52>> Motion and a second. discussion. All in

07:54favor, please say I.

07:55>> I.

07:56>> Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

07:59>> We are now at our first recognition.

08:02Since council amended the agenda to

08:04include the appointment of a council

08:06liaison to the transportation mobility

08:08advisory board, I would like to appoint

08:11council member Bella Hang to serve in

08:13this role. And she is grac graciously

08:16accepted. Thank you so much.

08:18>> Thank you.

08:19>> You look shocked.

08:21Don't look shocked. I thought last time

08:22you just like joked me.

08:24>> Oh, no. No. [laughter]

08:26>> Thank you. I'm so honored. Thank you.

08:28Thank you. I'm so honored.

08:29>> Staff is still working through the

08:31logistics of establishing the advisory

08:34board and appointing a council liaison

08:37at this time. We'll help move that

08:38forward uh as staff prepares to bring

08:41forward recommendations for board member

08:43appointments with the goal of hold with

08:46the goal of holding the first meeting in

08:49early winter of next year. So, thank

08:51you, Miss Wong.

08:52>> Thank you.

08:53>> So, no vote by councils necessary for

08:55this. I'm allowed to make these

08:57appointments. So, the next item on our

08:59agenda is a recognition of outgoing

09:02board members. And I'd like to take a

09:04moment to recognize the volunteers who

09:06have just completed their terms on K's

09:10advisory boards this year. These

09:12residents have generously given their

09:15time, their experience, and unique

09:18perspectives to strengthen our

09:21community. Serving on an advisory board

09:24is a meaningful commitment and takes a

09:26lot of time when we're so grateful for

09:29the many hours they have devoted to this

09:31important service. And so on behalf of

09:34the entire Kerry Town Council and our

09:37community, I want to thank each and

09:39every one of them, each and every one of

09:41the outgoing board members for their

09:43service and for sharing their knowledge

09:46and expertise with us. And I appreciate

09:50all and we appreciate all that you have

09:53done uh contributing during your time on

09:57the boards. So, I'd like to name each

10:00one of these individuals and hopefully

10:03they're joining us via live stream or

10:06here in the audience this evening. So we

10:08have Vince Beast, Lily Chen, Andy Co,

10:12Michael Counter, Victoria Ellis Ford,

10:15and Fitz, Shuchi Gupta, Chris Henden,

10:21John Emanuel, Barry Mitch, Patrick

10:23Murray, Dean Perry, Ness Shortley, Paula

10:27Smith, and Jill Strait. Thank you so

10:29much. A hand for these outgoing board

10:32members, please.

10:36>> [applause]

10:37>> All right. Now, I'm going to turn it

10:39over to our interim town manager, Russ

10:40Overton, for his update. Thanks, Mayor.

10:43I'll give a quick recap of the work

10:45session we had before tonight's meeting.

10:47We covered several topics. First, Kelly

10:49Blazy and Heather Willahan gave us an

10:50update on our future downtown multi

10:52multimodal transit facility that will be

10:55located off of North Harrison Avenue

10:57along the railroad tracks. Kelly gave

10:59well they both gave a great presentation

11:01on where the project's web pa about the

11:03project webpage that can be seen on

11:05kerrync.gov and you can go there if

11:07you'd like to learn more. Uh Jimmy

11:10Simpson also gave us an update on our

11:12continued high fuel prices and how

11:14they're affecting our budget. We talked

11:16about what the general assembly is doing

11:17to to provide some relief including

11:20temporarily temporarily suspending the

11:22state gas tax uh for the public. We also

11:25discussed some new legislation from the

11:27general assembly related to the byite

11:29residential development. This would

11:31allow developers to build apartments on

11:33redeveloping properties that have

11:34existing commercial, industrial, and

11:36business zoning without a resoning or

11:38town council approval. So basically, old

11:41shopping centers, office parks, and

11:42things like that could become apartments

11:44without coming here uh to you all first

11:47and thereby having uh public input.

11:50What's interesting is that the

11:51legislation only applies to four

11:52communities in North Carolina.

11:55And finally, I gave council a preview on

11:57some changes to the moving forward

11:58dashboard. So, we covered a lot of

12:00ground um earlier today on some pretty

12:02important topics and I encourage anyone

12:04who's interested to go back and watch

12:06the recording on our YouTube channel.

12:07That concludes my comments, Mayor.

12:09>> Thank you, Mr. Overton. Now, it's time

12:11for public speaks out. We've included

12:13instructions for speaking at this forum

12:16online and on the printed agenda. There

12:18were three opportunities to participate

12:20in public speaks out through written

12:22comments, by calling in or by attending

12:25here in person tonight. If you are here

12:28in person and would like to speak,

12:30please take a seat in the rows to my

12:31right that are now highlighted.

12:34Public speaks out speakers have three

12:36minutes each for their comments and may

12:38speak on any town related topic as long

12:41as it's not a public hearing. 3minut

12:44time limit will be enforced. Not to be

12:47rude, but to be fair to all of our

12:49speakers. We have a timer on the podium.

12:52It'll start off with a green light, and

12:54when it turns yellow, that means you

12:56have 30 seconds remaining.

12:59When it turns red, that's the point.

13:01I'll interrupt you. Again, not trying to

13:02be rude, but trying to be fair to all of

13:05our speakers.

13:08I would ask that speakers be respectful

13:10in their comments and direct those

13:12comments to the entire council and not

13:14to an individual. And I thank everyone

13:17in the audience for understanding that

13:20this is a business meeting and I ask you

13:22to please respect that. Please do not

13:25applaud, make remarks from your seats,

13:27use props or do anything else that may

13:30distract from the meeting. So now is the

13:33time for public speaks out and first

13:34I'll call on our clerk to share any

13:36written comments and call on any

13:38registered speakers.

13:40>> We've received one written comment.

13:41These have been this comment has been

13:43emailed to council prior to the meeting,

13:45provided to council upon arrival, and

13:47attached to the online agenda. Um, we

13:49have four registered speakers. Our first

13:51one is Mansive.

14:06Good evening. Thank you for having us

14:08tonight, mayor and council members. My

14:10name is Mansive and it's great to be

14:11back before you. I think I can speak for

14:14everyone sitting behind me when I say

14:15that we really appreciate the

14:17opportunity to be here to advocate

14:18specifically for the tobaccof free

14:21public places ordinance. In fact, if you

14:23take a look behind me, you'll see my

14:25fellow advocates here tonight and you

14:27can see how deeply our youth um

14:30community cares about this issue. You've

14:33heard a lot of statistics and policy

14:34arguments from us throughout this

14:35process. So tonight, I just want to

14:37share one final perspective. As a young

14:39person who lives in this community, we

14:42don't experience Carrie in designated

14:44zones. We walk through parks, attend

14:46community events, go to public

14:48facilities, and spend time with our

14:50friends without thinking about where one

14:52smoking zone begins and another ends. We

14:55just notice what's around us. And that

14:57matters because youth people learn what

14:59is normal by what we see around us. More

15:02than one in five high school students in

15:05central North Carolina currently use

15:07ecigarettes. That's not just a statistic

15:09for us. Those are our classmates, our

15:12friends, and the people we see every

15:14day. I've watched vaping become so

15:17common among students that it can feel

15:18like background noise. And that's

15:20exactly what concerns me. When something

15:24becomes normal enough, people stop

15:26questioning it. That's why I don't think

15:28smoking zones are enough. A smoking zone

15:31might separate tobacco use from other

15:33people physically, but it doesn't

15:34separate behavior from the environment.

15:37Young people can still see it, and we

15:39can still absorb the message that

15:41tobacco use belongs in our public

15:43spaces. So tonight, when you vote, I

15:46hope you remember that this ordinance is

15:47about more than where people are allowed

15:49to smoke. It's about what we choose to

15:52make normal for the young people who

15:53live here and to enforce it as soon as

15:56possible to limit the amount of people

15:57affected. Thank you so much for

15:59considering this ordinance, for

16:01listening to us throughout this process

16:03and for giving young people a seat at

16:04this table.

16:06>> Our next register speaker is a followed

16:09by Sudep.

16:26Good evening, mayor and council members.

16:29Thank you for the opportunity to speak

16:31before the council. My name is Aurard

16:34and I have lived in Kerry for the past

16:36eight years. I'm also a member of the

16:39youth empowerment team at the post

16:40center.

16:42Before entering high school, many of us

16:44have had that talk from our parents

16:47about waping, smoking, and the risks

16:49that come with them. And honestly, it's

16:52easy to brush those warnings off and

16:54think they're exaggerating.

16:56But once you get older, you start to

16:58understand why those conversations

17:00matter. When we talk about making car's

17:03public spaces 100% tobaccof free, we're

17:07not only talking about preventing

17:08secondhand exposure. We're also talking

17:11about what young people see as normal.

17:15Parks, greenways, athletic fields, and

17:17other public spaces are places where

17:20kids spend time with their families and

17:22friends. If smoking and vaping are

17:24common in those spaces, then over time

17:27they can start to feel like just another

17:29normal part of everyday life. A 100%

17:32tobaccof free policy sends a clear and

17:35consistent message. Tobacco and vaping

17:38do not have to be a normal part of our

17:40shared spaces and life. This policy is

17:43not about judging people who use tobacco

17:45or nicotine products. It's about

17:47protecting the spaces that belong to

17:49everyone. a child at the park, a family

17:52walking on a greenway, or any Kerry

17:55resident should be able to enjoy those

17:57spaces without unnecessary exposure to

18:00tobacco smoke or vape aerosol. Kerry has

18:04the opportunity to be proactive. We do

18:07not have to wait for a problem to become

18:08worse to start taking action. I want

18:12Carrie to continue being a place where

18:14being healthy is the default, especially

18:16for the next generation growing up here.

18:19Thank you for your time and thank you

18:20for considering this policy.

18:23>> Next speaker is Houd Houd Deep followed

18:27by Hannah Williams.

18:38Good evening, mayor and members of town

18:40council. My name is Sudep Karapa

18:42Pandian. I'm a senior at Green Hope High

18:45School. I'm here tonight to speak on

18:47behalf of our families, our children,

18:48and the well-being of the town of Kerry.

18:51Smoking has created an atmosphere which

18:53is not safe for our loved ones, and the

18:55people we care about. When our parents

18:57or author figures smoke or vape, it

19:00creates a cascade effect that encourages

19:02you to do the same. In my personal

19:05experience, when neighbors in my

19:07neighborhood smoke, members of other

19:09families started doing the same thing.

19:11This is a serious concern when we are

19:13trying to protect our community and

19:15children also learn from parental

19:17behavior which is another reason why it

19:19is important to have tobaccof free

19:21spaces. Having tobaccof free spaces can

19:23provide our community and future

19:25generations with a safe environment to

19:28thrive without having the contagion

19:29effect that tobacco and vapes produce.

19:32In addition to this information, CDC

19:34highlights that establishing a 100%

19:36smoke-free home policy and 100%

19:39smoke-free public spaces reduce youth

19:41experimentation with cigarettes and

19:43other tobacco products. This proves that

19:45tobacco use isn't just an individual

19:48habit, but a ripple effect that directly

19:50shapes the health and safety of our

19:51community. Beyond just my neighborhood,

19:54I witnessed this ripple effect firsthand

19:56across Kerry. I see people vaping in

19:58cars while driving down our roads and in

20:00outdoor concerts and events. This

20:02doesn't just affect youth. It normalizes

20:04nicotine in everyday life and affects

20:06every resident that shares these public

20:08spaces. As a community, we want to take

20:11steps to prevent the younger generations

20:12from developing the habit of tobacco

20:14use. We need to pro we need to promote

20:17well-being by expanding tobaccof free

20:19spaces across all all town parks,

20:22plazas, recreation centers, and public

20:25outdoor spaces throughout our entire

20:27local community.

20:28Extending these smoke-free spaces

20:30throughout Kerry reduces exposure to

20:32secondhand smoke and vape and reinforces

20:34clean, healthy public norms. By creating

20:37100% tobaccof free spaces, Kerry can

20:40break this cycle. It will protect our

20:42air quality, remove triggers for young

20:44people, and provide a clean and safe

20:47environment where families and future

20:48generations can thrive. Thank you for

20:51your time, your leadership, and for

20:52considering this policy to keep Carrie

20:54safe and healthy for everyone.

21:21Good evening, mayor, town council, and

21:24madame clerk. Before I mention uh what I

21:28want to say is that I work in research

21:30science and one of the projects that we

21:32do, we work for the EPA and we test the

21:34air quality in the air. what these

21:37brilliant bright lights are talking

21:38about needs to be deeply considered. Um,

21:41and not only just what they have heard.

21:44Um, I care deeply about this town and my

21:46request tonight is about strengthening

21:49public trust through meaningful dialogue

21:52and measurable accountability.

21:54There's been council members that have

21:57reached out to me the past few weeks.

21:58I've been a little bit under the

22:00weather. I have enough strength to stand

22:01before you tonight before I pass out.

22:04But um I appreciate that. I recognize

22:07and I appreciate the efforts of

22:10uh existing uh engagements that we have

22:13for our residents here in Kerry. The

22:15district meetings and formal

22:17conversations

22:18and public comment all serve valuable

22:20purposes. However, the existence of

22:23those platforms does not by itself

22:26demonstrate that residents concerns have

22:28been meaningfully addressed.

22:31uh this particular uh uh uh this body

22:37has has has have heard from me privately

22:39about this this town hall and I'm going

22:42to say it one time and then I'm going to

22:44say it one more time before we get to

22:46November and there's a reason why I'm

22:48doing that and I've already articulated

22:49that to you clearly inside of emails

22:52that I will conceal to the public as for

22:55right now

22:57uh council's assessment of its outreach

23:00matters Excuse

23:02me.

23:04Um, that does not mean that the

23:07residents feel that their voices have

23:11been heard. With that in mind, I'm

23:13respectfully requesting these three

23:14things. First, schedule a dedicated

23:17community town hall before the end of

23:20this year. I have clearly articulated in

23:23the emails privately to this board why

23:25I'm saying before this year.

23:28I I I want this on the record why I'm

23:30saying this, okay? Because there was a

23:33meeting that we had in the middle of the

23:35summer. It was a packed house. It was

23:38just hostile. And I believe in February,

23:41I mentioned that if we don't get this

23:43thing under control, you're going to

23:44have a hostile meeting with that. So,

23:46there's a reason why I'm saying to do

23:48this before the year.

23:50Um, the second thing would be to publish

23:53an accessible accountability update

23:55identifying corrective actions. And I

23:57know that the interim town manager has

24:00uh done a great job with articulating

24:03the progress moving forward and I

24:05appreciate that. Um these uh requests

24:08that I'm making is not um withstanding

24:11those that work that in which you're

24:13doing and I appreciate that Mr. Overton.

24:16Third is to review the implementation of

24:18policy 191 which I do not like how it

24:21was presented. I think we had another

24:23resident that talked about that. Sorry,

24:25>> I'm going to I'm going to finish my

24:26sentence before we before we finish

24:28that.

24:29>> Thank you.

24:29>> The policy 101. Excuse me. Excuse me,

24:32sir.

24:33>> Excuse me. Your time has expired.

24:35>> Policy 101. I don't like how it was. Do

24:37>> we have any other registered speakers?

24:39>> Okay. Thank you.

24:40>> Policy 101.

24:41>> Anybody else in the audience that would

24:43like to speak, please

24:46come forward.

24:57Good evening, mayor and town council. My

24:59name is Patrick Murray and I just

25:00finished my second term on the

25:02information services advisory board.

25:04Thank you for the recognition earlier.

25:06Serving on that board has been very

25:08rewarding in many, many ways. One thing

25:10that I learned in serving that board is

25:12the appreciation that the town and the

25:14council have for the aging population in

25:16Kerry. trying to make it a welcoming

25:18place that people can can stay and enjoy

25:20and have a great life. Having said that,

25:23the FBI has been tracking Bitcoin

25:26ATMbased scams. They've identified over

25:28400 million

25:31losses. But what's astounding in that if

25:34as if that's not bad enough, 47% of that

25:38has been targeted at elders, losses by

25:41elders. I know the AP has tried to work

25:44with the North Carolina legislature to

25:47come up with bans or other things to

25:49prevent that. They've not been very

25:51successful in getting that on their

25:53agenda. Carrie has about 18 Bitcoin ATMs

25:57according to a Bitcoin ATM map, right,

26:00which is easily found by any potential

26:01scammer.

26:04If Kerry is unable to consider taking

26:07action or are unable to wait for North

26:10Carolina to take action, I would

26:11encourage you to think about what can be

26:13we we done here to reduce the impact to

26:18um the el elderly people living here.

26:20Right? If you cannot ban ATMs,

26:24look at other regulations. Are there

26:26transaction limits? Can there be a

26:28requirement of putting flyers right on

26:31those ATMs, making potential uh uh

26:35victims aware and more and more smart

26:38before they put their cash into that ATM

26:40and send it off to some scanner's

26:41wallet. So, it would be something that I

26:43would like the council to take up to

26:45help protect the elders living in this

26:48community and making Kerry a even safer

26:51place to live for all ages. Thank you.

26:53>> Thank you. Next speaker, please.

27:04Good evening

27:06members of the town council, mayor, Mr.

27:08Overton. My name is Elliot Tardiff,

27:10Kerry resident since 2014, and it's a

27:12privilege to speak with you this

27:13evening. I want to take my time this

27:15evening to talk about progress. Progress

27:18has been in the news here in recent

27:20weeks with the disclosure of the NC DO's

27:23intent to renovate the railroad crossing

27:25at Maynard and East Chattam Streets.

27:28While the state DOT is the responsible

27:30agency and ultimate arbiter of this

27:32project and attendant impacts to

27:34surrounding businesses, I'll nonetheless

27:36state for the record my belief that the

27:38existing proposal does not sufficiently

27:41minimize impact to area businesses. Good

27:44corporate citizens and neighbors, I

27:47argue, are being needlessly sold out in

27:50the name of progress.

27:52Better can be done by them. This should

27:54be a shared belief of everyone on this

27:57day and a belief to inform your

27:59conversation with state partners. I ask

28:02you as our elected leaders to lift up

28:04your voices to demand better progress.

28:08Second, I've noticed that the town is

28:10using dashboards to display progress on

28:13any number of different matters from the

28:15post auditor and WBD action items to

28:19open record requests, permits, and more.

28:22This is a commendable and efficient

28:24means to serve the people and businesses

28:26of this town. Pace of respective

28:28progress notwithstanding, I'd like to

28:30offer an addition. I wanted to touch on

28:33a request that I made before this day in

28:35February asking for the addition of

28:38pedestrian sidewalks and crossing

28:39signals at Kildair Farm Road and Kilmain

28:42Road. While I understand these requests

28:45and proposals must go through different

28:48stages of work

28:50uh before becoming reality, I'd

28:52nonetheless be interested to see where

28:54this is. Has it been discussed? Are

28:56there plans in the works to address it?

28:58You should consider expanding your use

29:00of dashboards to incorporate requests at

29:03venues like public speaks out. You are

29:06our elected leaders. It would for this

29:09resident and others go a long way if I

29:12knew I was being heard and what progress

29:14has been made. Finally, I wanted to

29:17acknowledge the recent tragic passing of

29:20Kerry Detective Alicia Brown and also

29:22the Durham firefighter who died in the

29:24line of duty this morning. Peace be with

29:27the fallen, their loved ones, and their

29:29colleagues. Thank you for your time.

29:31>> Thank you. [clears throat] Anyone else

29:32for public speaks out?

29:36Seeing no one, I'll close. Public speaks

29:38out and we'll move to the consent agenda

29:41portion of tonight's meeting, which is

29:43item four. If you're following along,

29:45I'll take a moment to review the consent

29:47agenda items. Please keep in mind, one

29:50vote approves these items. On the

29:53consent agenda, we have adjustments to

29:55the adopted meeting schedule, amendment

29:58to fee schedule, contract amendment for

30:01engineering design and inspection

30:03services for water main replacement

30:05project and 23 REZ14 Hatcher property

30:10reszoning. Would council members like

30:12any of these items pulled for

30:14discussion? If not, I would entertain a

30:16motion to approve the consent agenda.

30:18>> So moved. Second.

30:20>> There's a motion and a second.

30:21Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

30:24>> I.

30:24>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

30:27>> We have no public hearings. So, we move

30:29to discussion items

30:32and that is 6.1 which is ordinance

30:36amendment regarding smoking and use of

30:38ecigarettes. Assistant town manager

30:41Scott Barry will present the item and

30:44council may take action.

30:49Good evening, mayor and council. This is

30:51a council initiated item to amend our

30:54code of ordinances that deal with

30:56smoking and the use of electronic

30:58smoking devices.

31:00I'll walk through what our current

31:01ordinance covers, what's changed, and a

31:04proposed update if you choose to move

31:05forward.

31:08Over the past year, Carrie has seen our

31:10neighbors adopt changes to their smoking

31:12regulations, and we've heard from

31:15residents both through written

31:16communication and public speaks out

31:19about desired updates. During the April

31:22council meeting, a council initiated

31:23item was brought forward by council

31:25member Bush and Craig that was discussed

31:27directing staff to advance the proposed

31:29amendment before you this evening.

31:34Our current ordinance dates to 2007. It

31:37prohibits only lighted smoking and only

31:39in town buildings and transit vehicles.

31:42It doesn't address electronic smoking

31:43devices, doesn't cover count town

31:46property outside of buildings, doesn't

31:48cover our park system, and has no rule

31:50for privatelyowned public places.

31:53[snorts]

31:57The amendment before you does three

31:58things. First, it broadens the

32:00prohibition to include products that

32:02emit secondhand emissions, not just

32:04lighted tobacco. Second, it extends

32:07coverage beyond town-owned buildings and

32:09vehicles to all town grounds, the entire

32:12park system, which includes parks,

32:13playgrounds, event spaces, greenways,

32:15and trails. And third, it adds a new

32:18prohibition in privatelyowned enclosed

32:20public places townwide subjects to the

32:22exemptions that the state requires.

32:26Here's what that looks like across our

32:28spaces. Both lighted smoking and

32:30electronic smoking devices would be

32:32prohibited. I will note the asterric

32:34calls out the flexibility of the town

32:36manager to designate outdoor smoking

32:38areas on town property. This would

32:41include areas for employees as well as

32:43designate smoking areas in our venues

32:45like Cocoa Booth.

32:50The inclusion of public places is

32:52probably the most significant update.

32:54Restaurants and bars are already

32:55smoke-free under state laws. What's new

32:58is an equivalent rule for electronic

33:00smoking devices. Beyond those, the

33:02proposed amendment also prohibits

33:04smoking lighted and electronic in retail

33:07stores, offices open to the public,

33:09gyms, entertainment venues, and similar

33:11spaces. The far right column highlighted

33:14in gray shows the space where state law

33:16would still allow use. These include

33:18private residences, vehicles, tobacco

33:20shops, cigar bars, and private clubs.

33:24[snorts] As you can imagine, enforcement

33:26of this would be an education first for

33:28public spaces. If someone is smoking,

33:31the person in charge of the space should

33:32direct them to stop. Continuing to smoke

33:35is an infraction. This could incur a $50

33:37fine issued by a sworn officer. And by

33:39state law, those penalties go to the

33:42school system. For business operators

33:45that would allow smoking, it's also

33:47education first with escalating fines up

33:50to $200 for repeat violations. This

33:52section would be enforced by the county

33:54health director and town employees could

33:57be subject to discipline under our

33:59personnel ordinances.

34:02Staff is proposing that if council

34:04adopts this ordinance, it takes effect

34:05July 1st, 2027.

34:09This implementation date will give staff

34:10time to assess signage, coordinate with

34:12Wake County Public Health, prepare

34:14materials for employees, residents, and

34:16operators, and it also aligns with the

34:17fiscal year.

34:20In [snorts] summary, the proposed

34:21amendment prohibits smoking and

34:23electronic smoking devices across town

34:25buildings, vehicles, properties, and

34:26parks, and enclosed public places with

34:28the manager's ability to designate

34:30outdoor smoking areas on town property.

34:35All right, kind of a new slide, but

34:36because this is an ordinance change, if

34:38this is approved by five members

34:40tonight, um it would pass. If it's

34:43approved by four members, it returns for

34:44a later date and has a second vote.

34:49And with that, council can adopt the

34:51ordinance amending article three of

34:53chapter 14 of the town of Kerry code of

34:55ordinances with an effective date of

34:56July 1st, 2027. And I'm happy to answer

34:59any questions.

35:00>> Thank you, Mr. Barry. I'll open it up to

35:02council members questions, comments.

35:05>> Um, I'll just make a couple of comments.

35:08One of the things that I think is

35:12not necessarily covered in um, Mr. Bar's

35:15report is the complexity that exists um

35:19with our sister um municipalities and

35:23counties. There is this strange and

35:27complex

35:28uh weave of different ordinances and

35:31regulations. And so some of the

35:34challenges that there is is that what

35:36may be allowed in one community is not

35:40allowed in another. So as you're let's

35:42say going from location to location

35:44although the state law is clear um it is

35:48not as clear in the municipal level. So

35:50I wanted to call that out because I

35:53think that Wake County made the changes

35:56um Morrisville Kerry um and I understand

35:59that um Apex is now looking at it as

36:02well. So I think that commonality that

36:05shared commonality is also important.

36:08One other thing I'd just like to call

36:10out because we did receive a couple of

36:12emails from um well, we received one

36:15email from someone that was concerned.

36:17This isn't about telling adults that

36:20they cannot vape. It's about saying that

36:23in places where we have all agreed that

36:26we should we all have agreed that

36:29smoking doesn't belong that vaping

36:32should follow that same clear rule and

36:35guideline. Um, and also it expands it.

36:39It expands it to public spaces in

36:42private locations, including our parks

36:45and greenways. I have had many um many a

36:50family call and say, you know, I took my

36:52my child to the downtown Kerry Park and

36:54there were all these smokers around and

36:56I just didn't feel like they could play

36:58near the playground. So I just wanted to

37:01call that out that you know their

37:02personal their personal choice remains

37:05but shared air I think requires shared

37:08consideration.

37:11>> Other thoughts, comments?

37:15>> I agree and I I was happy to to second

37:19this. Um,

37:22the effects of smoking has had a a huge

37:25effect on my family, though we can't say

37:28definitively. That's how things came to

37:31be, but I've had multiple family members

37:33who have passed due to lung cancer. So,

37:37it was easy for me to say, "Yes, we

37:39should have a public discussion." the

37:41public discussion was much more

37:45difficult and enlightening because

37:47there's a lot of different factors to

37:49consider. It's not just about

37:53health well-being for

37:56it is about health well-being, but it's

37:58also about

38:00finding ways to be sure that we're not

38:06that it's about health and not being

38:07punitive. And so having having things

38:11written in here like the town manager

38:16has the ability to designate specific um

38:19outdoor smoking areas I think is very

38:22important. And also want to point out

38:25that our our ordinances

38:28when we when we pass something it we

38:30don't just set it aside and never look

38:32at it again. that there's always

38:34opportunity as we gather more

38:36information and learn new things to make

38:39changes to that. But I think um as

38:43people are also contacting us and saying

38:46make sure you're not infringing on

38:48personal rights that

38:51the ability to breathe air without

38:54secondhand

38:56spoke is infringing on a personal right

38:59in my opinion. Um, and I think we can I

39:04think we're finding a a reasonable

39:06balance with with this. But I I'm so

39:10sorry. And so I wanted to specifically

39:12name that we have heard um the the Youth

39:16from Post Center that we have

39:20we hear you. We hear what you're saying

39:22and we will continue to listen and that

39:25your your words haven't gone unnoticed

39:27and we appreciate your time. And I think

39:30that's what's helped when there are so

39:32many competing priorities right now for

39:34us to go ahead and make this decision to

39:36move forward.

39:40You

39:40>> know, Council Member Craig and Mayor

39:42Prom Bush, I think you spoke to the

39:44personal liberties argument so well. Uh,

39:47you know, that's a reasonable argument

39:49to make, but I think it's important to

39:51note that this is not preventing adults

39:53from continuing to exercise their free

39:56choices in any number of private and

39:58other public spaces. And I think it's

40:01not dissimilar to if you went to a

40:03friend's house and they said, "Oh, I

40:05don't allow smoking in my house." We

40:07would respect their personal right to

40:09say, "I don't want smoking in this

40:11space." And we're saying that about the

40:13town spaces that belong to all of us.

40:16Uh, I think particularly as a mom of

40:19teenagers and pre-teens, I am

40:22particularly supportive of the public

40:25health aims of a policy like this and

40:27our young people here spoke to that so

40:29well. So, so thank you for surfacing

40:31those concerns. Um, my only concern is

40:37the implications for our town employees.

40:39So, I would just like to ask staff as we

40:43operationalize this and we've given

40:45oursel plenty of time to do that that we

40:48are really mindful that this is

40:51supportive of healthy habits for our

40:53staff um and not punitive. I would

40:56really love instead of uh this resulting

40:59in personnel disciplinary actions that

41:03the consequence would be cessation

41:06programs or other kinds of of supportive

41:08help. So that this isn't uh uh punitive.

41:11This is not meant to punish anyone. This

41:14is meant to endorse healthy habits for

41:17all of our residents and ensure clean

41:19air for all of us.

41:22I would like to say something too. So

41:25this is a first of all I want to thank

41:28the youth for being here. Your advocacy

41:31and your um passion on this really is

41:34very inspiring and I will I will

41:37encourage you to continue to advocate no

41:40matter where we land today on this

41:42discussion because the conversation is

41:46not whether we want this or we don't

41:49want this. It's about you know what is

41:52the ordinance and what is the language.

41:54So I just want you to uh understand that

41:57you know um your advocacy matters and

42:01you know it has definitely brought this

42:04attention to this topic. So I'll just

42:08say something about my and I probably am

42:10sharing too much information here. I

42:12made some notes also so that I don't

42:14forget anything but um I'm highly

42:17allergic to smoke uh to a degree where I

42:20cannot be in a room where there is even

42:23a candle burning. Um I start choking I

42:26can't talk it's getting very severe day

42:29by day. So through my personal health

42:32experience and um through my personal

42:34opinion, I feel

42:37exactly where you are, you know, we

42:39cannot encourage smoking in public areas

42:42for people, you know, who do not want to

42:44share that air. But um I also want to

42:48tell you that I never felt any issue

42:49walking into downtown Kerry Park or Bond

42:52Park. Um I could freely walk. In fact, I

42:56had my daughter's graduation party there

42:58and we never felt anything. So, I just

43:01want to share my personal experience

43:02with you. Although I understand the

43:04advocacy part, but um I also recognize

43:09the health concerns and you know the

43:11problem um the youth is facing. I'm a

43:15daughter of a 18-year-old child that was

43:19um that went to high school and she

43:22would come back and share how the

43:24environment sometimes could be very

43:26triggering and you know it it's very

43:29widespread. Um so I understand where

43:32you're coming from.

43:34Um from an uh ordinance perspective, I

43:37understand what the current ordinance is

43:40and you know I would totally support

43:42this ordinance if we can add um other

43:45new ways of smoking. We can add that but

43:49I cannot support it in its entirety

43:52today and um that is because I have not

43:56seen any data on this. I have not seen

44:00any evaluation from the town staff with

44:03pros and cons. So my decision if I were

44:06to vote on this today would be purely

44:08emotional and um things that you've

44:12mentioned you know we will have to do

44:14from an inform enforcement standpoint. I

44:18think that's very concerning for me

44:19because um I understand we're being

44:22proactive but there are so many issues

44:24right now that our staff needs to spend

44:26time on and the money um that we will be

44:29spending on this um entire enforcement

44:32and the focus I think it will take away

44:35um the focus from very critical items

44:38that are pressing for the town today

44:41like moving forward dashboard coming up

44:44policies you know making those changes

44:47And I feel that's a priority for me.

44:51I I think um in my opinion ordinance

44:55should be developed thoughtfully

44:58considering the public health benefit,

45:00the extent and location of the problem

45:03and forcibility and the resources need

45:06needed to implement them.

45:08[clears throat] I want us to clearly

45:09identify the problem we're addressing

45:12and understand how the proposed

45:13ordinance would help. So, um I would

45:18love to see data. I would love to see um

45:21some metrics that could tell me that

45:23Kerry is moving into that direction

45:25where this has become a nuisance or this

45:27has become a problem and I'd be happy to

45:29support it. But I don't I don't have any

45:32data today to say that and I cannot

45:36support this change just based on

45:38emotions and personal health issues.

45:43>> Any other comments? Uh I would love to

45:46add some comments as well. Uh first of

45:48all thanks to our uh my colleagues have

45:51covered 99 99.9% of all the all the uh

45:56um thoughts and I would love to uh shout

46:00out to our young people as well

46:03especially for the past council meetings

46:05that came out to public speaks out. Uh I

46:08grew up in a second uh uh in a home. My

46:11dad smoke every day and I smoke. I grew

46:14up with the secondhand smoke. Uh thank

46:18God I'm still healthy. [laughter]

46:21But uh I want to share that um

46:23especially to the young people you came

46:25out to express your um opinions and

46:29advocate for this. When I was your age,

46:32I don't know there is option. The

46:35environment showed me my uh my dad and

46:38his friends, everybody is smoking

46:40everywhere and it's very normal to uh

46:45make the uh teenagers to mimic the

46:48adults behavior. But this ordinance I

46:51feel is the benefit for the public good.

46:56So for Carrie, I don't I don't see a lot

46:59of uh people smoking in public, but

47:01still because I'm only one person uh and

47:04I can see from the other public speaks

47:07out and also emails that people are

47:10smoking but this ordinance will help

47:13people to find the right place to to

47:16smoke. And also I would love um Mr.

47:20Barry, could you um u mention about the

47:24businesses uh especially for those

47:27businesses that could be affected? Um

47:30other than that, I will support this

47:33ordinance, but I want to double check

47:35with the businesses.

47:37>> Yeah. So, part of this ordinance applies

47:40to what is called enclosed public

47:43places. So, it's not places that the

47:45town owns, but it's businesses that you

47:46referred to. Uh currently, you know, you

47:49can't smoke cigarettes, lighted

47:50cigarettes or cigars in restaurants or

47:52bars. That's a state rule. This um

47:55amendment would also include then

47:57electronic smoking devices in those

47:59restaurants and bars. It would also um

48:03it would prohibit both cigarettes and

48:05electronic smoking devices, things that

48:07create smoke um in places like retail

48:11stores, banks, these offices, fitness

48:13centers, entertainment venues, and hotel

48:16lobbies. And then the the rule does not

48:19apply to certain places like um that are

48:21businesses like tobacco shops, cigar

48:24bars, if you have a private club, if you

48:26have a country club or if you're in a

48:28smoking room in a hotel.

48:30>> Oh, thank you, Mr. Barry. Um I feel

48:34pretty confident of these um businesses

48:37especially in the public use uh

48:40situation. Uh but for the restaurant and

48:42bars, we don't have any uh power to

48:46control that. It's already under state

48:48law, right?

48:49>> For smoking of cigarettes. Yes.

48:50>> Okay. Thanks.

48:52>> Um

48:54I very much want this to be a unanimous

48:57decision. So I'm going to ask this

48:59question. If a motion comes up and fails

49:02tonight, it comes back at a later date

49:04and only four have to approve that.

49:07>> Let me show your slide again.

49:08>> Yeah. So it takes five votes tonight,

49:12>> correct?

49:13>> And so if you don't get five votes

49:15tonight, then what happens?

49:16>> Then it would come back at a later

49:17meeting and it would only take four

49:19votes.

49:19>> Who determines that meeting? The time

49:21timing,

49:22>> the manager's office.

49:23>> Okay.

49:24>> Putting it back on.

49:25>> I would love Miss Bonsel's questions or

49:28her data to be collected and and I would

49:30love this to be a unanimous decision. I

49:32think that's very important. It's a very

49:35important message to send. Um, if there

49:38is no motion made tonight, what happens?

49:40Still requires five.

49:41>> Yeah. The first time it's voted on, it

49:42would require five to pass.

49:44>> Well, I just want to understand, you

49:46said you wanted it to be unanimous, but

49:49so you you want to postpone it until

49:52Miss Bonsal, Council Member Bonzel has

49:55the data. She may or may not,

49:57>> right? So, if you made a motion and you

50:00don't get five, then it comes back

50:02again, you could take four. But my hope

50:04is that you get seven. I see what you're

50:06saying. Yeah. Well, I I so I appreciate

50:10the questions and I thought Dr. Nishant

50:14Sha who was here at the last meeting who

50:17was phenomenal uh Duke cardiologist gave

50:21us a great deal of data that um from a

50:25cardiology and heart disease perspective

50:28one person in every I think he said 33

50:31seconds um dies of heart disease where

50:35um where there's evidence that smoking

50:36and smokers face a substantial high risk

50:40that one in uh I believe it was 10 kids

50:44um I'd have to look at the post center

50:46kids um is vaping and of those kids 90%

50:50of them are using flavored

50:53um

50:55um flavors to keep them addicted to

50:58nicotine. Um we also know that smoking

51:01and vaping also has a higher degree of

51:04stroke associated with it and we don't

51:06have as much data on vaping because it's

51:08relatively new. But my question to you

51:11would be are you looking specifically

51:13for carry day because we won't have

51:14vaping data but we already know that

51:17smoking and the carcinogens that come

51:20from the vapor from vaping

51:23um is not harmless. I'll say it's I

51:26don't want to say it is harmless. So

51:27what kind of data are you looking for?

51:29because I thought we got quite a bit

51:32from both the kids, the advocates and

51:35the

51:35>> so I think what you're saying is the

51:38data that to show that um smoking is

51:41injurious to help. I think we all agree

51:43on that one thing. Um none of I'm a mom

51:47of a teenager. I know what kids are

51:49doing and it's it's not good. It's sad.

51:52But um I don't think that's my question.

51:56My question is in Kerry, I want to see

51:59and hear from the manager and and the

52:02staff on that this is an issue and um

52:06how many complaints are we getting? Do

52:09we have police chief saying that there

52:12it's a nuisance in the park and people

52:14cannot stand there? So I think some sort

52:17of data backed and the reason why I'm

52:20asking this question is because I

52:23genuinely believe that we need to be a

52:24little bit more intentional and

52:26thoughtful on these ordinances because

52:29of enforcement challenges and um

52:33and we don't want to set a precedent

52:35that we we're trying to put an ordinance

52:39because we believe that this should not

52:42happen here. like is there any factual

52:46evidence that this is happening here and

52:48we need to take care of this by putting

52:50an ordinance is my question. So I'm not

52:52saying

52:53>> well it's not against the law now.

52:55Right. So that's the nobody is I'm I see

53:00what you're saying. You want to know

53:01okay are there people vaping? Right. And

53:03and so we want to expand the I'm sure

53:06they're vaping. I know that you know

53:08from being a teenager's mom that the

53:11kids get together there are parties and

53:13they vape and you know things happen but

53:15is this happening in downtown Kerry

53:17Park? I mean there has to be some sort

53:20of mechan or tool to understand I mean

53:24we we can put these ordinances but if

53:28there is no data supporting those

53:29ordinances how difficult enforcement

53:32will become for the police I mean we I I

53:35would like to understand that what like

53:38um are we going to change all the signs

53:40what is the cost of those signs going to

53:42be do we have the budget for to do those

53:45things or we are going to get that money

53:48from from another bucket to do that. So

53:52I think these are very logical questions

53:54to think about. Nobody is arguing that

53:56um smoking is injurious. I cannot even

53:59breathe when there is smoke around me.

54:02So I just I want some information and I

54:05appreciate what mayor is saying that we

54:08all need to have the right information

54:11before we move forward. But I would

54:13totally understand if you have five

54:14votes today and five and I'm not against

54:17the intention

54:19and um of what you're doing. I just I

54:22feel I'm I don't have enough information

54:24to say this is a problem in Kerry today.

54:28>> My [clears throat]

54:29concern is what because I write so many

54:32notes. Um, when I go back to my notes

54:36and I hear in addition to what you were

54:39saying that it sounds like council

54:41member Bonszel may not support this

54:43tonight without having additional

54:45information, I also heard you say

54:48concerns about the timing of this with

54:50other priorities. And so my question

54:54would be, are we imposing

54:57more difficulties with what we're asking

55:00of staff by collecting data versus what

55:04this says here for the fiscal impact

55:06that signage will be updated

55:08consistently with current maintenance

55:10schedules and

55:13that the cost will be absorb anticipated

55:15to be absorbed within existing operating

55:16budgets. So, I I don't have a specific

55:20number and that might matter to to to

55:23others tonight before taking a vote, but

55:26it might cost the town more of staff's

55:29time to collect the data. Personally, I

55:33on a daily basis, I probably don't even

55:36notice. Um, growing up with smokers as

55:40well, it's normal when I get in the car

55:42with my dad. Um, it's like roll down the

55:44window cuz anyway, that's his personal

55:47business. But I

55:50I I do go to Cocoa Booth Amphitheater

55:55and I there's definitely vaping going on

55:58there within the within the crowd and

56:02there's also I've at I've attended large

56:06events at the downtown Kerry Park. So,

56:08I've personally witnessed it myself and

56:10in in my opinion,

56:14making the policy consistent with

56:17ecigarettes, with what we've already

56:20known for a very long time about

56:23cigarettes, making that consistent

56:25is something that we should just do

56:28based on the data that's been collected.

56:30American Heart Association and and and

56:33the doctor and many other people who

56:34have presented information.

56:37But that's my perspective.

56:40>> It is a good perspective and thank you

56:42for sharing your experience. Um but

56:44these are all personal experience like

56:46what council member Wong said, we are

56:48just one person speaking for this.

56:50There's no

56:52>> re like what you said too, there's no

56:54real data. So, um I'm okay with voting

56:59yes for this, but I just need to know

57:01from police chief how will the

57:03enforcement work or we're just doing

57:05this because we want to feel good

57:06tonight that we are we have made a

57:09difference by putting this ordinance.

57:12Are we really going to enforce this or

57:14how are we going to enforce this? I

57:16think Scott made a great point about

57:17it's um education first

57:21and if you're looking for the police

57:23department to be the first pass at

57:26enforcing vaping laws that's um

57:29probably going to be an impact to the

57:31police department which is why I think

57:32it's best to focus on education

57:35>> like how that part is not clear to me

57:39>> how would you do it you so it's it's

57:40part of a this this is um I think what

57:43council member Bush was alluding to this

57:45then aligns car's regulations with the

57:48types of regulations that our neighbors

57:49have passed. So you have a consistent

57:51message across, you know, Wake County um

57:54area. But ultimately, it's people

57:56learning, it's us putting signs up as we

57:58replace signs. That's our approach for

58:00this.

58:01>> And I'm I'm assuming that similar to the

58:04way um Raleigh did it, there'll be

58:07social media campaign. I'm sure our

58:09partners at the American Heart

58:10Association will be putting out

58:12information. It's it's about education

58:14first, right? And and I do appreciate

58:18the fact and and I'm glad you mentioned

58:20it again. It's it is about aligning the

58:23fact that we when we made our ordinance

58:2520 years ago, vapes didn't exist. And if

58:29the harm from vaping is similar in many

58:34ways to the harm from smoking, and we

58:36already all agree that smoking is

58:38detrimental, then it seems a natural

58:41consequence to also um to prohibit

58:46vaping in these these same spaces.

58:50And uh I would love to share that uh for

58:53the past several council meetings I see

58:56the poll center and American heart

58:58association uh volunteers came up and uh

59:02talk about this uh for the education I

59:04think they will be the very good partner

59:07with us for the education with public um

59:12that will we'll continue this uh

59:14conversation with them

59:15>> and before I see you're leaning in I do

59:17want to give a shout out to the American

59:19Heart Association. They've been really

59:21great at sharing um model language from

59:24the North Carolina Department of um

59:26Health and Human Services, sharing the

59:27Wake County ordinance, sharing the um

59:32Raleigh ordinance and specifically what

59:34was really helpful to me sharing their

59:36feedback um when they started to talk to

59:39businesses, what is the business impact

59:41and actually uh letting us know that

59:44businesses were very supportive of this

59:47expansion. So Scott, I saw you leaning

59:50in.

59:50>> Scott, what I'm um understanding from

59:53today's conversation is there's no cost

59:56right now that uh except the staff time.

59:59So our police is not going to

1:00:02>> we're not adding police officers or

1:00:05anything like that.

1:00:05>> We are not

1:00:06>> correct.

1:00:07>> Okay. So this is more of

1:00:08>> Yeah. Not for this ordinance. Right.

1:00:10>> So what we are doing as part of this

1:00:12ordinance is only going to launch the

1:00:14social media campaign which is only

1:00:16going to be like you know educating

1:00:18people through different mediums that we

1:00:20have but um it's only going to require

1:00:22the staff time and there's no additional

1:00:24funding that will be required to make

1:00:27any changes to existing infrastructure

1:00:30to enforce this. that just there is an

1:00:34an item in the staff report where

1:00:36there's a fiscal impact which is what

1:00:38council member Craig was reading that

1:00:40said that signage will be updated

1:00:42consistently with the current

1:00:43maintenance schedule and this is exactly

1:00:45what um she pointed out. So it the costs

1:00:49that are anticipated are to be absorbed.

1:00:51I just want to make sure that people

1:00:52understand what we're doing because um

1:00:55there's lot of gray area in this

1:00:56discussion and even I don't feel very

1:00:59comfortable like um um at this point

1:01:02that I have 100% of information on what

1:01:06exactly the plan is and how we're going

1:01:08to execute this. I really appreciate

1:01:11council member Benel's questions and

1:01:13this continued discussion just now

1:01:16really helped me to better understand

1:01:18this ordinance and I think the more

1:01:20discussion during this council meeting

1:01:22the better for the public. Appreciate

1:01:24that.

1:01:25>> M

1:01:26>> what what I was going to add was uh this

1:01:29is certainly not the first vote. It

1:01:31definitely won't be the last where we as

1:01:33individuals have reached different

1:01:35conclusions about whether or not we have

1:01:37enough data to make what we feel is an

1:01:40informed decision. Um, and I think that

1:01:42just speaks to differences in individual

1:01:45personalities and the the kind of data

1:01:47that you need to make a decision you

1:01:49feel comfortable with. So, I think if

1:01:51council member Bonsol does not have her

1:01:53questions adequately addressed um and

1:01:56she feels more comfortable with a no,

1:01:58that makes sense. At the same time, I'm

1:02:00hearing that at least four of us have

1:02:03reached a conclusion that we do have

1:02:05enough data. And so, Mayor, I don't know

1:02:09that one council member's reticence

1:02:12warrants asking staff for additional

1:02:16staff time to answer more questions when

1:02:18I am perceiving that the majority of us

1:02:21have had our questions adequately

1:02:24addressed.

1:02:26So, I guess I'll make a motion that we

1:02:28adopt the ordinance amending article 3

1:02:30of chapter 14 of the town of Kerry Code

1:02:33of ordinances with an effective date of

1:02:35July 1st, 2027.

1:02:37>> There's a motion.

1:02:38>> Second,

1:02:39>> and the second, excuse [clears throat]

1:02:40me. Uh, I will support Miss Bonsel

1:02:44because I think it's extremely important

1:02:46that this be unanimous. Um, so if this

1:02:50fails, then it'll come back and by that

1:02:52time I hope we have seven. That's my

1:02:55hope. I totally support the motion, but

1:02:57I'm gonna vote against it because I

1:02:58>> vote against it

1:02:59>> because I want a unanimous vote. That's

1:03:01where

1:03:02>> Well, you should be aware that I don't

1:03:04believe

1:03:05>> I don't believe you will get a unanimous

1:03:07vote.

1:03:07>> Well, we'll see. I want the opportunity

1:03:10to get a unanimous vote. I want it to go

1:03:12down in the books. Is the council

1:03:13unanimously approved?

1:03:16>> So, so that's where I am. I think it's

1:03:18healthy for us to recognize that

1:03:21unanimous votes

1:03:24are not necessarily always healthy.

1:03:27>> I got that.

1:03:27>> But I but I respect But I respect your

1:03:30opinion. Just as I respect that, I would

1:03:33never ask anyone to vote yes on

1:03:36something that they didn't feel

1:03:37comfortable for because I I believe your

1:03:41discomfort is small that you absolutely

1:03:44know that for health reasons that this

1:03:47is a good thing.

1:03:48>> Yeah, I might, you know, I'm open for

1:03:50conversation and discussion. I it's not

1:03:53written in stone, but I need I don't

1:03:55think I have enough information to make

1:03:58this decision because any decision that

1:04:00we make is going to have a big impact.

1:04:02It's

1:04:02>> fair. And um I just don't think I'm

1:04:05there today and I want to be very

1:04:07intentional about my decision- making.

1:04:10And I I appreciate that we all have

1:04:13different levels of information that we

1:04:15need. I I remember the RHA amendment. I

1:04:19didn't have the amount of information I

1:04:20needed to to vote. I I also am cognizant

1:04:24that we've talked about this at the

1:04:26table at the table for at least four

1:04:29times and also very cognizant of the

1:04:32number of times that the American Heart

1:04:34Association and all of these advocates

1:04:37um and the and the youth who have come

1:04:40to I would say at least five meetings to

1:04:43speak ma maybe eight meetings I think to

1:04:46speak and advocate and um I I just want

1:04:50to thank them because I I imagine if

1:04:52this um does not pass, they will be at

1:04:55the next one. And I want to recognize

1:04:57the fact that it takes an enormous

1:04:59amount of enormous amount of time for

1:05:02the public to be engaged consistently

1:05:06and that is a lot of passion. So I

1:05:08really thank them for that.

1:05:10>> Okay, good discussion. All in favor of

1:05:12the motion, please say I.

1:05:13>> I.

1:05:14>> Those opposed

1:05:16two motion requires five votes. If it

1:05:18fails, it will come back to us at an a

1:05:22future meeting. Hopefully the next one,

1:05:24but I don't know how fast.

1:05:27>> Does something change between now and

1:05:30the next meeting other than we have an

1:05:32additional council member?

1:05:34>> Right. Can we ensure that council member

1:05:36Ponal gets whatever information she

1:05:37>> But I think mayor is right there with me

1:05:39too. And I hope that you know we both

1:05:42can get the information. If if you are

1:05:45satisfied and have the information you

1:05:48need, if you reach a point where you

1:05:50said, "I have all the information I

1:05:52need, but I'm not going to vote for it,"

1:05:54then that's acceptable to me, too, that

1:05:56I can now vote for this ordinance. But I

1:05:59would really like this to be unanimous.

1:06:01>> Okay.

1:06:02>> And just to be clear, this is

1:06:03communication that council member Bonsaw

1:06:05can direct with staff and we're not

1:06:07asking staff to bring back to the full

1:06:09body.

1:06:10>> That's right.

1:06:11>> More staff report. Okay.

1:06:14>> And do you need any additional

1:06:15information as well?

1:06:16>> I'm good right now.

1:06:17>> Okay,

1:06:18>> Grace. Thank you'all. Thank you. I need

1:06:21a motion to go into close session. Uh

1:06:23pursuant to GS143 318 11A13 I move that

1:06:28we hold a close session to consult with

1:06:30attorneys employed by Ann or retained by

1:06:32the town in order to preserve the

1:06:34attorney client privilege between the

1:06:36attorneys and the town prevent

1:06:37disclosure of information that's made

1:06:39privileged or confidential

1:06:41pursuant to the laws of the state or not

1:06:44consider a public record within the

1:06:46meaning of chapter 132 of the general

1:06:48statutes and to consider the

1:06:49qualifications competence performance

1:06:52character fitness witness conditions of

1:06:53appointment or conditions of initial

1:06:55employment of one or more individual

1:06:56public officers or employees.

1:06:59>> There's a motion. Is there a second?

1:07:01>> Second.

1:07:02>> Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

1:07:04I.

1:07:05>> Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously

1:07:07and the council will move into close

1:07:09session at 1035.

2:11:56We'll reconvene our council meeting. We

2:11:59uh concluded our agenda. I would

2:12:00entertain a motion to adjurnn.

2:12:03>> So moved.

2:12:04>> Second.

2:12:06>> Any discussion? All in favor, please say

2:12:08I.

2:12:08>> I. Opposed. Motion carries. We are

2:12:10adjourned. Thank you.

2:12:17Oh my goodness.