2026-07-21 - Town Council Work Session

03:54Well, good evening everyone. Today is

03:56the council [clears throat] work session

03:58on Tuesday night and I am not Mayor

04:01Harold Weinre [laughter]

04:03[gasps] and the reason for that I'm

04:05going to hand over to um interim town

04:08manager Russ Over.

04:09>> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Bush. Be very

04:11formal tonight.

04:12>> Yeah.

04:13>> Um yes, as you can see, the mayor is not

04:15here. Thank you, Lori. Um the mayor

04:17asked me to read a statement as to why

04:18he's not here. So, as you can see, Mayor

04:20Wine Breck is not with us this evening.

04:22Um, last week, the mayor's

04:23mother-in-law, um, as you all know,

04:26passed away very unexpectedly. Our

04:27thoughts are with him and his family

04:29during this difficult time. Um, he's

04:31exactly where he needs to be tonight

04:32with his loved one. So, thanks for

04:34standing in.

04:35>> My pleasure.

04:37All right. First on the agenda stays

04:38with you, right?

04:39>> It does. All right. So, here is the

04:42agenda for tonight. We're going to um

04:44have a brief discussion, if you will,

04:46about a couple policies um that are

04:48coming before you on Thursday night. Uh

04:50we'll do a council initiated item, which

04:53is the external human resources

04:55consultant for council, uh which I think

04:57um you brought forward, so we'll let you

05:00say some words on that. And then I'm

05:02going to do uh several updates. Um I'm

05:05actually going to preview I won't

05:06preview, but I'll want to run through

05:08the dashboard. We've talked about it a

05:10lot in the last week. Um I alluded to

05:12it. Um I'm going to bring it on the

05:14screen and we're just going to kind of

05:15go through some of those items [snorts]

05:17especially so the public can see. Um

05:20going to run through since it's you've

05:22got another council initiated item. Um

05:24we were talking internally about what do

05:26we do when we're done with them. You all

05:27take action. You know that you take

05:29action. We don't really bring it back to

05:31you and say hey this one's done. Um so

05:33we're just going to go through a little

05:34bit of a tracker there and talk about

05:35some that are in process. Uh something

05:38that you all wanted done was um uh

05:40probably a a vote I believe on the

05:42council out and about. So I'll let you

05:44talk about that, maybe take some action

05:46and then assistant town manager Stacy Ti

05:48is going to do a um revenue update for

05:50us and then we'll toss it to Jenny to do

05:53a um um some scheduling review for some

05:57of the upcoming meetings. If that sounds

05:58okay, we'll proceed.

06:01>> All right. So the next item is the

06:03council initiated.

06:04>> Oh, I'm going to do policy first.

06:05>> Oh, sorry. Yeah. [laughter]

06:07>> Got all excited, didn't I? Yeah. I was

06:09so excited.

06:10>> All right. So, the policy updates

06:12tonight or policy statement 143 and 190.

06:16143 um is your rules of order. And just

06:19very quick um we've talked about that,

06:21but that's going to be on the consent

06:22agenda on Thursday night. And it

06:24includes a you know a relatively um

06:28quick update regarding language of live

06:30streaming council meetings, minute

06:31meetings expectations, and quorum notice

06:33requirements. uh Jenny can answer any

06:36questions if you have any. Um obviously

06:38there's a staff report for all this with

06:40the attached um updates. So if there's

06:43not any questions, I'm going to move to

06:45policy statement 190 which is new.

06:49All right. So this is our anti-

06:51retaliation uh and protection for

06:54reporting improper activity. would be a

06:56new policy statement

06:58and specifically this is something that

07:01um as later we're going to review the

07:03dashboard but I want to go ahead and

07:04reference it because this was um

07:07actually ended up being in three of the

07:09recommendations. So Cherry Beckert was

07:12the first to bring this up. Um and it's

07:14just I won't read them, but you see

07:16where the um specifically in orange the

07:18word retaliation is mentioned and for

07:20Wimble Bond WBD Wimble Bond Dickinson

07:23had two to have an anti- retaliation and

07:26or protection against retaliation as

07:28well as a confidential employee tip

07:30line. So we're kind of merging those two

07:32together as you um preview this for you

07:35tonight and you will take action on

07:37Thursday.

07:39All right. So, I I mentioned it. You

07:40first saw it or maybe heard about it

07:42with the um Cherry Beckert on uh with

07:45our annual audit um internal audit

07:47[snorts] and that was on February 5th.

07:50Um we already have a non-discrimination

07:53anti-harassment. So, that provides some

07:55protections. It's not exactly the same

07:58as a uh as this uh staff reviewed peer

08:02municipalities. Can I let's see I had

08:05that in front of me just to give you

08:07some update on the work but specifically

08:09looked at and called um and I should say

08:12that staff from our um organizational

08:14development department the legal office

08:16and HR were specific to working on this

08:18and bringing uh the manager's office

08:20some recommendations but they looked

08:22towards other jurisdictions that have

08:24this specifically Charlotte Greensboro

08:26Durham Wilmington and Fateville all have

08:28some form of this whether it's a policy

08:30or something that's in their um uh

08:33policy uh sorry their employee handbook

08:35type documents. Their work that they did

08:39um kind of looking at thinking about

08:41who's covered, what counts as

08:43retaliation, how to report it, and what

08:46happens when violations occur was kind

08:47of some marching orders, if you will.

08:50I'll give you some more details, but

08:52employees may report concerns to any

08:55director, any attorney, the legal

08:57department, um or the internal auditor.

09:02um there are alternative reporting

09:04procedures um when there's potential

09:07conflicts and Lisa specifically went

09:09through that. So the staff report

09:11details, you know, kind of some of the

09:13whatif scenarios. There's a provision to

09:15uh report things on counsel if if you

09:17will. Reports may be made anonymously.

09:20Um that brings up the issue if you know

09:23you can't be too specific or if it's too

09:25anonymous. uh an anonymity may limit the

09:28availabil ability to investigate. Uh but

09:32the town will protect confidentiality to

09:34the extent permitted by law. Carrie will

09:36promptly, thoroughly, and fairly

09:38investigate all reporting um or of

09:40suspected improper activity and

09:42retaliation, including referring

09:44allegations to um legal violations or

09:46misuse of public funds to the town

09:48attorney.

09:50So depending on who it goes through, the

09:52uh attorney's office would play a

09:53prominent role and could even um hire

09:56outside investigators to help uh review

09:59something depending on who the tip was

10:01about. So then speaking of a tip line,

10:04uh which was one of the specific

10:06requests, we think that we should just

10:07go ahead and include a tip line in this.

10:10We're researching options for what that

10:12will mean. So you take action on a

10:14policy, we want to establish a a

10:16standard procedure that would go with

10:17that. That would be an internal document

10:20of how to do this. So, you know, should

10:22you adopt this on Thursday, we'll enact

10:24a policy and then we'll bring it along

10:26with establishing a tip line and uh

10:28figuring out if there's a substantial

10:30cost to that or not that we would have

10:32to bring back to you. Um, I'm not sure

10:34that it's a huge cost, but we'll make

10:36you aware of that as well.

10:39Um, so the next steps, I'm getting into

10:41the next steps a little bit, but upon uh

10:44potential taking actions, we've got to

10:45communicate this effort um, you know,

10:47with staff um, includes supervisors and

10:51department leadership and how this

10:53policy could affect um, working within

10:56it. We want to integrate it into

10:58onboarding and relevant training

11:00materials for new um employees and then

11:03obviously do the standard procedure that

11:05I mentioned and then monitor the policy

11:07for effectiveness and recommend updates

11:09since this would be the first time we

11:10had one. I hope we would learn um and

11:13potentially update it as necessary and

11:15then also figure out how we um keep you

11:18in the loop to any personnel action from

11:21it should there be any. With that, um,

11:25I'll open it up to any comments or or

11:27questions. And I will do a brief

11:30presentation on this at the council

11:31meeting on Thursday as well before you

11:33take action.

11:37>> No questions.

11:38>> I have I have a question.

11:41So, if an employee reports it to a

11:44director, if I wrote it down correctly,

11:46an attorney in the legal department or

11:48an internal auditor,

11:50>> would they have to report it to the town

11:52manager?

11:54>> It would at least depend on what it is.

11:55>> It depends on

11:56>> if it's about the manager, then it would

11:58not be reported to the manager.

12:00>> Okay, that was my question

12:02given everything and just making sure

12:05there's a a safe avenue. Of course, you

12:09being you would be Lisa the only person

12:12on that list that wouldn't report to the

12:15town manager. So,

12:19>> and yes,

12:20>> I have one piece of feedback. Um, every

12:23year, my regular employer, we go through

12:26our onboarding process, you know, to

12:28reelect for our annual benefits. Um, and

12:31every year we're assigned, sometimes all

12:34at once in a flurry, a lot of annual

12:37required training. What I'd like to see

12:39in the policy is for it to be very

12:41explicit that the we'll will will in

12:46some way revisit the anti-retaliation

12:48process and policy annually as part of

12:52and [snorts] y'all know better than I do

12:54fill in the blank um you know where it

12:56could be most appropriately sort of

12:58tacked on just to make sure new

13:00employees are are aware of it that it's

13:02reinforced

13:03um and just revisited. I just like it to

13:05be pretty explicit because what I don't

13:07want for us to do, I think we've all

13:10learned the hard way that having a

13:11policy is 49% of the battle, right? 1%

13:15[clears throat] is people knowing about

13:16it and the other 50% is making sure it

13:18works.

13:19>> I just made that up on the spot, by the

13:20way. I'm very proud.

13:21>> Yes.

13:22>> Yes. [laughter]

13:23>> So, are you requesting then a sentence

13:26added to this policy before you adopt it

13:28Thursday? We can work on that in the

13:30next day or two.

13:31>> Yeah.

13:31directs the manager to um

13:35>> help me how exactly what you want the

13:36manager to what

13:37>> well I'd like to know if my colleagues

13:39think that's a bit too much or

13:42>> do you have it could be incorporated in

13:44the standard I'm picturing that when we

13:47do the standard procedure that's when

13:49we'll figure out how we're going to

13:51implement it with staff and how it will

13:53be part of orientation or getting it out

13:56to existing staff. So, I feel like we

13:58don't really know how that's going to

13:59work yet and we won't until as a staff

14:01we work through the standard procedure.

14:03>> Yeah, that that's what I'm asking is

14:05that it's um that there's language that

14:09says it will be part of new employee

14:12onboarding. It will be revisited

14:14annually during

14:17use some kind of general words um to for

14:21to reinforce its availability uh to all

14:24employees or something like that. Can I

14:26suggest?

14:27>> Sure.

14:28>> Um that at the end of the policy, the

14:31last sentence is that the town manager

14:33or designate is authorized

14:35um and we could say and directed to

14:38create standard procedures to further

14:40implement this policy including to

14:42provide training to all new and current

14:44employees on a periodic basis. Something

14:46like that.

14:47>> See exactly. Is there any current

14:51>> um when I worked in the private sector

14:53every year we had to sign a code of

14:56business conduct guidelines especially

14:58if you worked with government because

15:00you had to ensure that you identified

15:03and you understood that you weren't

15:04allowed to give gifts more than $25. So

15:07you would have to sign that.

15:09>> Um which is obviously the same thing

15:11with government employees. Is there any

15:13sort of policy so that you can ensure

15:16that obviously there's the onboarding

15:19but just a reminder

15:21>> for anything with regards to training.

15:24>> There's no written policy that requires

15:26that right now.

15:27>> That might be a something we should look

15:29at especially if we have PECARD

15:32potential training changes. We have

15:35other types of training changes some

15:37sort of

15:39>> we do it annually. I don't know if

15:40that's the right cadence, but something

15:42that reminds people of what's important.

15:46>> Yeah.

15:46>> And when folks are Go ahead. I would

15:48just recommend one thing which is I mean

15:51it would not go in this policy but it

15:53could be a practice perhaps at the town

15:55level where we could um reinforce a

15:59training for managers on you know what

16:02are the consequences of retaliation and

16:06how how that could lead to even you know

16:09losing your job. So it's we are handling

16:12this issue twofold.

16:14Not just developing this training or a

16:18policy

16:18>> but also training the managers who are

16:21overseeing some of these employees.

16:24>> So um gear training towards possibly if

16:27you're supervisor a little bit different

16:29than a subordinate who doesn't supervise

16:32or something like that. I I think we

16:34could add you know

16:35>> Yeah. And I think so HR has instituted

16:37some supervisor training within the past

16:39year that um they're encouraging all

16:41supervisors to take. Um and I feel like

16:44the things that y'all are getting ready

16:45to do, this being the first of probably

16:47many that are end up going to be end up

16:50getting incorporated into a more regular

16:52cadence of trainings. And so that's

16:54something else I think the manager will

16:55need to work through is what does that

16:57look like? What's mandatory? What's

17:01repeated every year, every two years,

17:02every three years? And so I think it'll

17:04be part of that broader discussion as we

17:06move forward with additional policies

17:07too.

17:08>> And we do do an employee orientation for

17:11folks that come on. They get a lot of

17:12materials. I don't know if they how much

17:14is signed or not signed.

17:16>> In the old days, you used to sign a lot.

17:17I think now you do a lot electronically

17:18when you join.

17:20>> So what mayor prom just said is exactly

17:23what happens in the corporate world. You

17:24you get that training that if you if

17:27there is a complaint and you retaliate

17:30XYZ could happen. In the end there is a

17:32digital signature

17:34>> where you sign it and you acknowledge

17:36the receipt of the

17:38>> probably goes in your personnel file.

17:39>> Right?

17:40>> If there were something like that,

17:41>> right?

17:42>> Well, especially now with cyber security

17:44being so important, all of our conduct,

17:48business conduct guidelines included

17:50things like that because those come you

17:52might have gotten the onboarding package

17:5420 years ago.

17:55>> Yes.

17:55>> Right.

17:56>> 28 18 sorry 28 18 29. So cyber security

18:01wasn't as much an issue then.

18:04>> Yeah.

18:04>> So it might be good to take a look into

18:07what's possible and they also track

18:08that. So if you didn't sign it, you

18:11received consistent emails reminding you

18:14to do so. And I'd say u maybe

18:16[clears throat] it's a good continued

18:18and ongoing conversation as we have

18:20other policy updates and maybe think

18:22comprehensively about what um policies

18:24we wish to add to type that type of

18:26procedure by itself even with onboard or

18:29other onboarding or other um annual type

18:32training reoccurring trainings

18:33throughout someone's career right

18:35[snorts]

18:35>> because that is a good point and um we

18:38mentioned some at a director's meeting

18:40recently [snorts]

18:42>> so I'd say we keep that top of mind a

18:45little bit as we as you'll also be

18:47seeing other um policy changes in the

18:50next um few months.

18:52>> But if we're seeing consensus on the

18:53sentence that I

18:56>> added,

18:57we can add that um we can add that to

19:00the online version and then have it so

19:01that when you adopt it Thursday night,

19:03that piece will be in there.

19:05>> So, we will see this on Thursday's

19:06agenda.

19:08>> Yes, you will.

19:08>> And it's a discussion item.

19:10>> It's a discussion item. Yes. But I

19:12wanted to take some time tonight to

19:13preview it with you and this was good so

19:16that we know if any changes we can make

19:17them before the meeting. So thank you.

19:20All right.

19:22All right. Now I'm going to move to the

19:25um council initiated item external human

19:27resources consultant for council. And

19:29I'll think we'll turn it over to you so

19:31you can um run through what you um put

19:34out there and have any comments on it

19:36and we'll talk about what your options

19:38are to take action.

19:39>> Great. I'll uh just review. Um this

19:44recommendation came from the WBLE Bon

19:46Dixon um section called workplace

19:49environment improvements. I think it was

19:51number one on that list.

19:52>> I had it as this was

19:54>> well number one on that list as well

19:55>> on that list but number 11 in the big

19:57list

19:57>> right

19:58>> um but number one in the workplace

19:59environment improvement and many thanks

20:02to council member Richards for seconding

20:04it. Uh the goal was that we should uh

20:08look to an outside consultant to help us

20:11with our annual performance reviews of

20:14the town manager, town attorney, and

20:15town clerk. And for folks who aren't

20:18aware, um in the past up until right

20:21now, we've always leveraged our own HR

20:24department to do that. And that um what

20:28WBLE said was that puts them in a a very

20:31precarious situation. and the people

20:33that they report to um are they're

20:36actually seeing their performance

20:37reviews and helping with that process.

20:39So, that was part of the suggestion. Um,

20:42also included in the request is to um

20:46allow a a bit of a wider uh net than

20:49that to also be able to provide us with

20:52objective HR advice. So, it's a little

20:55bit wider than just performance review,

20:57but a little bit wider. Um, and I'll let

21:00Council Member Richards weigh in on that

21:02as well.

21:03>> Well, thank you, Mayor Prom, for joining

21:05forces to advance this uh uh policy

21:08change or or uh to get additional

21:11resources that we need. And as many of

21:14you know, but we haven't yet had an

21:15opportunity to discuss as a body. I was

21:18able to attend a school of government

21:20training back in April uh evaluating

21:23manager and board performance. And so I

21:25I brought the um uh book that was part

21:27of the the course and uh the school of

21:31government recommends exactly this as

21:33well. I mean I think especially for a

21:34municipality of our size, you know, they

21:36they don't tend to prescribe

21:39oneizefits-all, but it's strongly

21:42recommended and suggested. And so I

21:44think this dovetales nicely with best

21:47practices with our Womble Bond Dickinson

21:50recommendation. Um but we know that this

21:52takes some staff resources um and we

21:55have to discuss of course budget um and

21:58and how we would implement this. Right.

22:01And so the rest of the council initiated

22:03request actually asked that staff bring

22:05back to council for consideration a

22:07recommended scope of services based on

22:10these ideas. Um and I believe um you

22:14also went to that. Did you also go to

22:16the school of government?

22:17>> Um they touched on it on on boarding

22:19session. Um, and then you went to a

22:21different training and uh, Scott Barry

22:23was at a session this week and had him

22:26do some research on it as well with with

22:28uh, folks at UNCC School of Government.

22:30>> Great.

22:30>> Probably y'all heard the same thing, I

22:32would imagine.

22:33>> So, the idea would be to bring back a a

22:35scope basically a scope of work, a

22:37proposed approach, costs, a contract

22:40term, and any additional considerations

22:42that we're not thinking of right now at

22:44this table. Um and then to ensure that

22:47we would have access to that independent

22:50HR

22:52professional support that that keeps HR

22:55at arms length from the folks that we

22:57are we are engaging with

22:59>> and I did reach out to the professor of

23:03both that [snorts] training and uh this

23:06is broadly her her scope of expertise

23:08too. I have not heard back from her yet,

23:10but to ask school of government what

23:13support they might be able to uh provide

23:15for us. Um and uh you know if we get to

23:18that point of if they were able to

23:20recommend potential firms um consultants

23:25um and so uh if I could pass that along

23:28absolutely

23:29>> to perhaps you Lisa should we connect um

23:32I can do that as well

23:33>> or even bring them in possibly

23:36>> and I this I know the answer but I want

23:39to make sure that we're talking about

23:41this and people who are watching they

23:43also see you know what what the thought

23:46processes. I know it's a recommendation.

23:49So there are two things um on my mind.

23:51This HR consultant is not going to

23:55replace the director position that we

23:58will have that we we need to backfill

24:00for Renee. Correct.

24:02>> Correct.

24:03>> Yes. I was not hearing it that way.

24:05>> This is a special purpose for or small

24:11um time frame that we're going to hire

24:13and just kind of

24:15is by project or is part-time?

24:18>> Well, and we heard it as um for your

24:20appointed positions, right?

24:22>> I view it as what you're asking is to

24:24look for um consultants. Um they will

24:28probably be lawyers, but there could be

24:29HR consultants that would assist you

24:31with the overall review process for the

24:34three appointed positions, which

24:36typically is not something that's

24:38happening year round. So, it would be

24:40someone who would give you that focused

24:41advice at review time, but then also be

24:43available on call for you if you had

24:45questions or concerns about performance

24:47during the year. Someone that the

24:49council could reach out to um separately

24:52and and talk to. So, that's kind of what

24:53I'm hearing and that we'll be looking

24:55at.

24:56>> That's right. Question. I have a second

24:57question. Um so, now my mind always

25:02rings about, you know, where the money

25:04will come from. Have we kept some money

25:07in the budget for this or how are we

25:10going to pay this consultant?

25:12>> Uh you have you have at your discretion

25:14$750,000 for midyear appropriation.

25:17Should you want to use that pot or you

25:20could ask us to bring you other options

25:21if you want, but we'd probably recommend

25:23considering that first. But we'll we'll

25:26research the cost and bring you that

25:28back before you have to make any

25:29decisions.

25:30>> Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. Uh um I have a

25:34question about the review because I

25:36think it's this is very important

25:37especially for the town manager because

25:40we oversee three persons and the town

25:44manager cover over 1300 staff. So uh

25:47another question is we review it

25:49annually or semiannually because uh in

25:53the private uh companies usually we set

25:56the goals for the CEO and uh we check it

25:59quarterly

26:01half a year or annually to make sure the

26:04ship is still targeting to the to the

26:07destination and uh if it's annually

26:10checked I'm not so confident about if we

26:14go the other way how far away from the

26:17destination and especially I think it

26:20will benefit the town manager to review

26:23his own job. If the council wants him to

26:26put more effort on some issues, he could

26:29do more. So I I I have a question if

26:34anyone can give us a budget for if we

26:37need more services like this, how much

26:39would it cost?

26:39>> We can look at that and I think that

26:41would be something you'd talk through

26:42with the consultant that you pick. you

26:44know, what would they recommend, how

26:46often? Um, and and it could be a

26:48different cadence. You know, here at the

26:50town when we have a brand new employee,

26:51they get reviewed every three months,

26:52it's six months, etc. Then it goes to

26:55annual reviews.

26:56>> So, you know, there's they could talk

26:58with you about what kind of cadence

26:59makes sense for different positions.

27:00>> Question. Are you saying, and this is

27:03just I'm not picking on you, promise.

27:05I'm just kind of clarifying. Uh are you

27:08saying the quarterly performance of the

27:10town or the quarterly performance of

27:12that individual?

27:13>> Individual individual because we are uh

27:17we are working with town manager to

27:20manage the whole town because we cannot

27:23work with every dayto-day job because

27:26that's too much. But still the town

27:28manager could um give us more feedback

27:31during the year. So it's not the end of

27:34the year you see oh we have so many

27:36questions but during the year we have

27:39like our quarterly meeting so we meet uh

27:42we can or town manager can give us a

27:45report of anything we want him to do or

27:48he want to do more

27:51>> and Lisa can correct me if I'm wrong but

27:52all that would occur in a close session

27:56>> that part of it the reporting out on the

27:58personnel you know whether it's either

28:00of the three appointed positions those

28:02discussions would happen in close

28:03session.

28:04>> So my point is it'd be at your

28:05discretion as to hold those um close

28:07sessions after meetings that you're

28:09having. And best practices would tell

28:10you that continuous feedback is um the

28:12best option of anybody that is

28:14supervising another person.

28:18>> Lisa, you said a new employee, you would

28:21usually do a three-month review, six

28:23month, and so on. Has that been the case

28:25for new town managers in the past?

28:28>> Um well, it's been 10 years since we had

28:30a new manager. Um, so I don't I don't

28:33>> I don't remember. Okay.

28:34>> Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to guess

28:36probably not. [snorts]

28:37>> Yes.

28:38>> I think the best idea or that I hear

28:41from everyone is understanding from this

28:44HR professional what the best practices

28:46are. Um, also, you know, maybe reviewing

28:50our policy associated with the appointed

28:53with the appointed individuals and

28:55whatever those personnel related

28:57questions might be that come up like

28:58should it be should be on probation

29:01basically or should there be a quarterly

29:03check-in? I mean, private sector has a

29:06variety of ways to do it. So, it would

29:08be great to get that policy or that

29:10expertise

29:11>> and I think it will dovetail um with

29:14your future discussions about appointing

29:15a permanent town manager and what the

29:17contract for that position looks like

29:19and how that plays into the review

29:20process and all those things. So,

29:22they'll all they'll all tie together.

29:24>> Yeah, good points.

29:26>> Okay, we need a motion.

29:28>> Um, yes, you have three Well, it didn't

29:30do it.

29:31>> Yeah, at your seat there is a print out

29:33from policy 143. You see that on the

29:35bottom of when this meeting when at a

29:37meeting when this item first appears,

29:39you have um three options. You can

29:42discuss the issue and take action. If no

29:44additional information is needed, refer

29:46the request to a future council meeting

29:47at which a staff report with a staff

29:49recommendation will be prepared or

29:51decide not to pursue the council

29:53initiated request.

29:56>> Do we have a motion then for the updated

29:59policy 143?

30:01>> Oh, no. No.

30:01>> Oh, we don't need that here. No, no, not

30:03for the updated policy. These are your

30:05options for taking a motion on your

30:06council initiated items.

30:08>> Oh, I mean,

30:09>> Gotcha.

30:10>> Yes. And that's the name of it. So,

30:11that's what we would capture.

30:13>> I think we're going with number two,

30:14right? The refer the request to a cons

30:17future council meeting

30:19>> at which time a staff report with staff

30:22recommendation will be prepared.

30:25>> A motion. Does future council meeting

30:28mean always a Thursday night council

30:30meeting or does that it could is that

30:32inclusive of a work session?

30:33>> Um we've talked about staff reports are

30:35more typical to go to a regular

30:38scheduled council meeting. Um so if it

30:40has a staff report with it, we'd

30:42probably think about sending it to that.

30:44But now that everything is um live

30:45streamed or televised, we have some bit

30:48of flexibility to bring it to either

30:50>> because we can do what we did tonight

30:51with the um other two policies which is

30:54talk about them

30:55>> prior to voting on them as well. So

30:57there's

30:58>> being given options much like you've

31:00done in the past where there's like

31:02option one, two, and three I think would

31:04be helpful in this situation because I

31:07couldn't even fathom a guess what the

31:09cost is, you know, how much services do

31:12we need? It's just uh it's hard to even

31:16guess what

31:17>> any of those are and I don't want to go

31:19into this guessing at all. So

31:21>> but would would it to answer Karissa's

31:23or concern do you think we can probably

31:27before it comes to the council we can

31:29discuss during 3x4s then it comes to

31:31work session then it goes to the council

31:33meeting for

31:34>> certainly try to do that

31:35>> voting maybe right

31:37>> especially when it comes to the cost I'm

31:38sure it'll have lots of zeros attached

31:41>> right

31:42>> just so I understand in the past we've

31:45done a council initiated item everybody

31:48votes on whether or not this Council

31:50initiate item is a uh request for

31:54additional information to come back.

31:56>> That also that needs to be voted on.

31:58>> Yes.

31:59>> Yes.

31:59>> And then it comes back and that's a

32:01second just for people watching so they

32:04understand why we'll see it twice.

32:06[clears throat]

32:06>> So is the suggest is your suggestion I'm

32:08trying to understand the motion to put

32:10it on the next agenda or do you want to

32:13vote now?

32:14>> I think

32:15>> on the the council initiated it

32:17>> you said I heard I heard the motion. Can

32:19I do I need to take it back? How do I

32:21take it back?

32:22>> I heard number two, which is refer the

32:23request to a future council meeting. So

32:25date undetermined at which time a staff

32:28report with the staff recommendation

32:29will be prepared. And I think the

32:30clarification was if a presentation

32:33could count as a staff report.

32:35>> Yeah.

32:35>> So that you could talk through options.

32:37>> Yeah. We need some a little bit of time

32:40>> probably longer than next.

32:41>> It won't be the next. Yeah, of course.

32:44>> Yeah. So there's no date here.

32:46>> It says future council meeting. So, is

32:48it valid or no?

32:49>> No, that's fine. That's

32:50>> And that's pretty typical of how um

32:52you've you've done that.

32:54>> I've already put the motion. I don't

32:55know.

32:55>> Yes. [laughter]

32:56>> I just wanted to make sure that we were

32:58on the same page.

32:59>> Yes.

33:00>> Is someone second?

33:01>> Second.

33:02>> Great. All in favor?

33:04>> I oppose. Okay. The motion passes.

33:09>> Thank you. All right. We're going to

33:11move through several um manager updates

33:16and I'm going to start with um our

33:17moving forward dashboard and a little

33:19bit of information about that. Uh

33:21obviously the on July 16th the state

33:24auditor's investigation report was

33:26released. Um we held a news conference

33:28and we launched launched a public uh

33:31dashboard as well. So this is a

33:33screenshot of it. I'm going to um go to

33:36it on the website for a little bit

33:38interact with it uh for a bit.

33:41And so so you know there are 39 total

33:43recommendations. Five from Cherry

33:45Beckards, 13 from the Office of State

33:47Auditor, and 21 from the Womble Bond

33:49Dickinson report, which you will also

33:51receive a um report on uh from someone

33:55with that firm on Thursday night

33:59on the dashboard. Um it is um let me go

34:04back for a second for this. Obviously,

34:06you'll see um how there are four

34:09buckets. Um specifically,

34:12they are um of a key and they are

34:16council expenses and reimbursements, PE

34:19cards, fund balance, and financial um

34:22reporting. And then there's workplace.

34:24So, they're the four um charts,

34:28but there are also um the status of each

34:31recommendation. So, we've got night not

34:33started research uh development complete

34:36and we've got some in uh various stages

34:38probably more that aren't started

34:40especially since um we just received the

34:42WLE uh Bond Dickinson report.

34:45So, I'll just see that there

34:47graphically. All right. So, let me The

34:49guys are going to Oops. I'm going to

34:51leave it here for a second. They're

34:52going to bring it up for me, I believe.

34:55I'll switch over.

34:58All right. This is where someone can

34:59yell at me because I am running with a

35:02mouse. Um, so you see we've got it.

35:04We've established the get the facts page

35:06moving forward. And this is kind of the

35:07jump page with a little bit of

35:10information, but um, including links to

35:12the reports, but what I'm going to focus

35:13on tonight is really clicking this

35:15button, which pretend I clicked it

35:18because it's already clicked for me. Um,

35:21and we're just going to jump to the

35:22other. So I'm highlighting what, you

35:25know, each bar is specifically. And I

35:27know this is kind of hard to read on

35:28that.

35:30Uh you see the 39, but you can filter

35:32it, which might be helpful for some

35:35through any Cherry Beckard. It'll make

35:37mention that Cherry Beckard had five

35:39recommendations.

35:41Um you know, the state auditor had 13

35:46as mentioned and WLE Bond uh 21. Then

35:49you can filter it through any bucket

35:52um workforce. I'm going to give you some

35:55of those numbers, but I did just want to

35:56briefly, you know, it's it's scrollable

35:58to see what each recommendation was

36:00specifically from the report if you

36:02don't want to read them out of the

36:03report. It'll be updated periodically

36:06with um regards to what changes. We went

36:09through a little bit of the numbering

36:10convention. Um so I think this will be

36:14helpful for folks to to see um as more

36:17things turn um green and completed.

36:20Specifically, I was going to um give you

36:21a little bit of data on what each one

36:23was, but Cherry Beckert had five

36:25recommendations. Two were of council um

36:28expenses and reimbursement. One was

36:30about PEC cards, one was about fund

36:32balance and financial rating, and one

36:34was about the workplace um which

36:37actually is the um that you'll be taking

36:39action on th Thursday with regards to

36:41anti- retaliation. The state auditor had

36:43two with regards to council expenses and

36:45reimbursements. They had 13 total. Let

36:47me back up. 13 total, two with council

36:49expenses and reimbursements, six related

36:51to PECards, five related to fund balance

36:54and financial reporting, and none with

36:57regards to workplace. Wombleon Dickinson

37:00had 21 total. Um they had none related

37:03to council expenses and reimbursements,

37:06four related to PE cards, six related to

37:08fund balance and financial ratings, and

37:11then 11 with regards to workplace. And

37:14as you've already seen tonight, some

37:16some overlapped to some degree. Uh but I

37:19just wanted to spend some time to

37:20highlight it and get any feedback um or

37:24comments that you may want to have with

37:26regards to the dashboard.

37:28>> I just want to say um that there has

37:31been a lot of discussion about the

37:33compensation for um council. Do you

37:36think this would be a good time to get

37:39that on the list? I think if you would

37:42like to, I'm glad you brought it up. If

37:44y'all have um specific priorities,

37:46especially with the Won Dickinson report

37:48or others that you would like to give,

37:50um staff's been working on um some

37:52timing some from some of these and

37:54obviously the state auditor asked us to

37:56give them timing. Wobble Dickinson is

37:58the one you'll um officially or we've

38:00received, but we'll receive a report on

38:03it on Thursday and staff's going to work

38:04through that. So, if you'd like to

38:06provide any um

38:09discussion or prioritization, um you

38:12know, I hope you don't have to council

38:14initiate too many of them since we have

38:17the whole list, but that just gets into

38:19helping us prioritize it. Several are

38:21regarding policies that are specific to

38:23you and I think it might be helpful to

38:25spend a little bit of time if you even

38:27wanted to focus on those. Um and you

38:30mentioned compensation. I think travel

38:32was one, meals. Do we do we have

38:34compensation on the list? I'm pretty

38:36sure it came from state auditor's

38:38office, right? Because they did talk

38:39about the compensation.

38:42>> Um,

38:43>> do we have a policy on that list?

38:44>> You do not have a policy.

38:46>> No, I'm saying do we have that

38:47recommendation? Sorry, not policy but

38:49recommendation on that list or

38:52something. I think they they as us to

38:54give uh like compensation policy about

38:58education or all kind of

39:01>> that was initiated

39:03in January by me but I'm wondering about

39:06the compensation like did state

39:09>> focus on transparency don't

39:10>> yeah did state auditor um mentioned in

39:13the report that we

39:15>> he verbally I believe he verbally or in

39:18the report said he'd like to see it um

39:20on our budget. Okay.

39:22>> Is an a fairly obvious here's the exact

39:25costs and compensation

39:26>> for transparency

39:27>> item if I remember that correctly.

39:29>> The um Cherry Becker. So this was really

39:31helpful. I pulled up the dashboard and I

39:32filtered it by council um and one of the

39:36Cherry Becker um recommendations was to

39:39consider adopting a policy um addressing

39:43allowable expenses um for council. And

39:47so I think um a lot of it's related to

39:50travel and different things, but I think

39:51I think it's partly in there and it will

39:53be part of what we talk about. You know,

39:55we're not just going to bring you a

39:57policy that only talks about travel or

39:59one specific thing. The auditor, while

40:01he talked about car allowances, he did

40:03not make a specific recommendation that

40:05said Carrie should,

40:08>> you know, do something specific related

40:09to council compensation or car

40:11allowances. Certainly something we can

40:13look at.

40:14>> Yeah. Maybe um allowances. I'm sorry. I

40:17I thought I saw it. Car allowances was

40:18specifically called out in the Cherry

40:20Becker um recommendation.

40:23>> Well, I think this is fantastic just as

40:26a visual representation of the work

40:29that's happening in a way for residents

40:30to check our progress, but a maybe a

40:34procedural question is this is a lot of

40:37recommendations, 39 total

40:38recommendations. you know, our town

40:42response to the state auditor in

40:44particular, we offered some broad

40:48timelines um and perhaps even uh more

40:52more than timelines uh when we would

40:55hope to have most of this work

40:57completed, but um that doesn't specify

41:01of course the prioritization in what

41:04order. Are you thinking of proposing to

41:08us some kind of calendar schedule of how

41:13exactly we're going to tackle all of

41:15this and in what order and when and at

41:17what meetings and how

41:19>> and we'd like [clears throat] to um

41:21because we'd like to kind of give a a

41:23thinking towards milestones possibly

41:25deadlines for all of them. We don't have

41:27that for WBLE Bond Dickinson yet where I

41:30think it might be helpful for y'all are

41:31some of these are policies that relate

41:34to you. They're not staff policies. So,

41:36if you get into compensation or travel,

41:38>> um that's an area where I think it it

41:40could be helpful if y'all wish to assist

41:42in the working of that. Um

41:45>> when you say that, does that mean you

41:46want council initiated items for those

41:48items? Is that what

41:50>> um I'm saying we don't have to have

41:51that, but it would be helpful if you

41:53wish to talk about it. It doesn't have

41:54to be tonight obviously, but if there's

41:56some thinking of that because it could

41:58be helpful if um a a group of council

42:01members or an individual council member

42:02wish to um um there's ways of doing that

42:06um through committees or task force or

42:09temp of a temporary nature. have uh one

42:11council member lead on the effort to do

42:13research on your behalf um talk to you

42:16individually or otherwise and give us

42:18your feedback of what you wish to see

42:20versus the way we normally do it of

42:22giving you options of how to proceed.

42:25>> Um certainly it's a little bit nuanced

42:27when they're your compensation or you

42:30know travel they would be your

42:32preferences not ours. So you may be best

42:34to give us um you know feedback on how

42:36to develop such policy. Uh I have a

42:39question about the council's

42:40compensation because uh Britney and I

42:43were just for seven months and we were

42:46on board and everything is there and we

42:49just receive whatever the town provide

42:52to us. So I I think uh like Sera and a

42:56lot of council members also the same

42:58thing when they f they were first

43:00elected. So how do we get the history?

43:03How was those compositions or what kind

43:06of policies were created and how the at

43:11that time the council decided to provide

43:14those compositions to the council but

43:17not that council council were elected

43:20we're not appointed by anyone because if

43:23we make a

43:23>> that was in 2016 right

43:26>> it predates my tenure as town attorney

43:28it predates Russ as interim or deputy

43:31manager I believe we're not familiar

43:34with exactly the history of the

43:35timeline.

43:36>> So I think that's also should be a a

43:38flag for us to take a look at that

43:40deeper

43:41>> because all I I think all the

43:44conversation is reasonable if we have a

43:48discussion in public and we are not shy

43:51to take any benefit from the town. I

43:53think we work and that's all the elected

43:57officials have some kind of conversation

44:00but uh the transparency is most

44:03important. If we discuss in public and

44:06we agree with everyone especially with

44:09some uh consultants uh professional

44:12recommendation we can take it no matter

44:15um we cut or we add that's all the

44:20recommendation we can discuss. Yeah.

44:22>> So there should be some I I agree. I

44:25think part of the issue is getting

44:27whatever best practices there are

44:30understanding how the rest of the

44:31municipalities

44:33in North Carolina operate as well as

44:36what this body wants. I mean I the

44:38history is important just to figure out

44:41how we ended up here.

44:43>> But I for me it's more about what should

44:47it be and how are we aligned to some of

44:49our regional partners. Right. So Russ,

44:52is it possible for us? I know you want

44:55us to weigh in since this is council

44:57policy and you know we have to determine

45:00what works for us as a body and you know

45:03what would be acceptable and not accept

45:05things like those. But would it be

45:07possible for staff to research and share

45:09with us like what other municipalities

45:11are following?

45:13>> Yes. And anything's possible. Um

45:16>> that's why if you want us to do it, we

45:18can do it. If y'all would rather

45:19accomplish it in a different means, um,

45:21y'all can also do it.

45:22>> How would we go about establishing

45:25a committee, workg group, whatever it

45:28would be appropriate for because this is

45:31I've heard about it happening before,

45:33but it hasn't happened in my time.

45:35>> Yes.

45:35>> On council,

45:37>> I mean, I maybe I'll let the clerk do it

45:39because you'd establish a group, but it

45:41would be subject to quorum rules and

45:43then you would want to establish whether

45:45it's held on um televised in some way.

45:48Yeah. And all your work session and

45:50regular meetings are now. So it could be

45:52a committee that meets here that is

45:55smaller than quorum of council and the

45:58council would vote on that establish the

46:01chair of the committee and then also the

46:03duration of that committee as well

46:07>> and all the technical details of who's

46:09taking you know do you have clerk

46:11support? Is there someone taking you you

46:13would have to take minutes

46:14>> um you would have to have you know um

46:16and vote on your minutes and publish

46:18your minutes just like a regular council

46:19meeting

46:20>> and they would be noticed so they would

46:22you would have to establish a type of

46:23schedule.

46:24>> Yep.

46:24>> I do think that's a good idea to at

46:26least take the four council related

46:28items

46:29>> and take those off of

46:32>> full staff. You have 30.

46:36Yeah. Right. 30 I don't know 39 of them.

46:39>> 39.

46:39>> 39. So you have 33 others to well I

46:42guess that's six that's four 35 others

46:44that you want to that you'll be working

46:46on and I think that we can take on that

46:49burden of determining for ourselves

46:52>> what we want to be held to and I'm happy

46:54to um help figure out what that looks

46:58like

46:59>> the group and bring it back with maybe

47:02work with Jenny or Lisa on what does the

47:05structure look like

47:06>> and we could bring you back some options

47:07for a structure y'all can decide

47:09>> that would be who's on it if you wish us

47:11to do that and we probably did the same

47:12thing but I put the four know they're

47:14harder to read

47:15>> depending on your eyes how far you are

47:17away or easier um but there's those were

47:19the four

47:20>> does it need to be a nonquorum

47:22>> it would be to be three or less

47:25>> and if we do that it does not need to be

47:27televised my only reason for asking is

47:29so that we don't take on additional

47:32expenses

47:32>> that would be council's decision

47:34>> be your choice

47:34>> that's my next question like and now

47:36we've got to

47:37>> but I think

47:38>> incur the video expenses I'm also

47:39worried that you know if we come up for

47:42something ourselves it might be seen as

47:45you know conflict of interest that we

47:47are kind of planning for ourselves and

47:48then voting and saying yes this is what

47:50we want instead of us like if a staff

47:54recommends something and a committee

47:56discusses and makes a suggestion to

47:59council we can make changes based on

48:02what our deliberation is going to be

48:04that would be the process that we have

48:06followed right

48:07>> well you'd want to take action action in

48:09an open setting, televised meeting. I

48:12imagine it'd be

48:13>> so it's like a working group. The three

48:15people aren't making the decisions for

48:16the whole group. The three people are

48:18like a working group

48:19>> to then bring recommendations, a list of

48:22recommendations,

48:22>> right?

48:23>> Perhaps or options back to the larger

48:25group to then

48:27>> talk about.

48:28>> So, it's just a it's a way to narrow the

48:30scope of all the work so we're not doing

48:33that work at the big session. I think it

48:36will be and probably should be

48:37scrutinized either way openly like I

48:40mean I I think no matter how it

48:44>> how we initiate the process and go

48:46through it it I mean it should be

48:48scrutinized and I mean I think it's fair

48:51but I'm fine with taking minutes and all

48:53of that. I just am looking for ways not

48:56to add additional expenses. Perhaps we

48:59can do it like we do the board meetings

49:00where people can listen in

49:03>> and um like we do the boards and

49:06commissions

49:07>> and we don't have the full setup

49:09>> and that has a webex so people can join

49:11in if they want right Jenny

49:13>> they could join in yeah

49:14>> so there is no additional expense for

49:16video

49:17>> right

49:18>> um and airing or something right

49:22>> so what would be the ne we've discussed

49:24it what's the next step then

49:26>> you you would need to establish here.

49:28>> Well, I would say if you would like

49:29staff to bring you back recommendations

49:31on how to do it,

49:32>> that's what I was

49:33>> That would be great.

49:33>> Sounds like another council initiated

49:35item in which you would need to take a

49:36vote to say, "Hey staff, we'd like we're

49:39voting to tell you staff to bring us

49:41back recommendations."

49:42>> For staff to bring us recommendations on

49:45how to do it, not

49:46>> how to achieve

49:49decide to do a committee.

49:51>> What's that?

49:51>> Or you could decide. I think what Lisa

49:54is suggesting is that staff could a

49:56committee could be one of the things

49:58staff recommends to us in a future in in

50:01a larger scope of how we're going to get

50:03this work done.

50:05>> Um because I would love to expand it

50:07beyond I you know I'm just thinking

50:09again procedurally of how we do all of

50:12this. And so perhaps the onus is on

50:15council to tackle these four in whatever

50:18venue and format that we do that work.

50:21That leaves 35. That would be mostly

50:23staff's perview.

50:25If the recommendation that would come

50:28back to us would be procedural. Here's

50:30the recommendations for how council

50:34could address these four issues. Here's

50:36how we're planning on from now until I

50:39think our our auditor response most of

50:41it was February of 27, right? May

50:44>> here's between, you know, now and late

50:47winter, early spring of next year. We're

50:50planning on [snorts] in some order of

50:53operations tackling the rest of the rec

50:55beginning and an ending.

50:57>> Yeah. [clears throat]

50:58>> Yes.

50:58>> Is how my brain works. Uh if that makes

51:02sense to everyone else.

51:04>> Yeah. Absolutely. I I do feel strongly

51:06though that we should manage this and

51:09not have staff

51:11>> work on these limited to the scope of

51:13the four

51:14>> these four.

51:14>> Nobody's going to come back. No

51:16committee is gonna form and then come

51:17back and say let's raise pay to 100

51:19grand and do this and that right there

51:20just

51:21>> and if they do others can vote right

51:23>> because it's it's just a working group

51:25and the work

51:27>> no decisions would be made without just

51:29to be clear one more time [laughter]

51:31>> no decisions would be made without open

51:32session of full counsel. So, is it

51:34possible to make a motion here that we

51:36are going to form a committee

51:39>> um to look at the four council related

51:41items that came out of the

51:43recommendations

51:44>> um and um who wants to be on that

51:47committee?

51:48>> Second,

51:49>> wait,

51:50>> wait. Do we need to do we need to

51:52identify all the components so that we

51:53can make progress? I don't want to

51:55>> give staff a process and then come back.

51:57I mean, yeah,

51:58>> I think we need to come back to you with

52:00like the layout of like how we're going

52:03to operate the committee,

52:05>> when you're going to meet,

52:05>> when you're going to

52:06>> that has to be part of the committee

52:08motion to form a committee.

52:11>> We need to know um have decisions about

52:14and maybe need to think through like is

52:16it the WebEx? You know, it has to be

52:17open to the public. So, um what room we

52:20recommend? I think the motion probably

52:22should be that we let the staff come

52:25back with the process, make a

52:27recommendation, and then we can pick one

52:28of the options from that and then move

52:31forward with forming a committee.

52:33>> I I think you can you can do it in I

52:35would say it doesn't sound like we're

52:36ready to do it all tonight, meaning make

52:38all these decisions,

52:39>> right? Um, so you could do as council

52:42member Bonsel said and kind of push all

52:44the decisions off and have staff bring

52:47you back kind of a menu of

52:48recommendations.

52:49>> Interested in forming a

52:50>> should be, you know, should it be live

52:51streamed or not? You know, what are the

52:53options? Or if you were ready to form a

52:55committee tonight, you could do that

52:57piece and say, well, this is who the

52:58committee is going to be, and then staff

53:00come back to us with the technical

53:01details and we'll then decide later how

53:05those meetings are going to work. I

53:07would prefer I don't want to speak for

53:08anyone else, but I'd like to make some

53:09progress in instead of just always

53:12waiting for a staff report, waiting for

53:13a staff report. That's just me.

53:15>> Yeah,

53:16>> I would prefer like, you know, letting

53:18the staff take the lead and bring that

53:20process. Plus, mayor is not here today.

53:22What if he wants to be in this

53:24committee?

53:24>> I did think about that. Would would he

53:27have the option to join since he's not

53:29here?

53:30>> Can it be a rolling group? And the old

53:33operations we used to have, remember way

53:36back when had an operations committee

53:38and a

53:39>> you changed when council changed, I

53:42believe. So it was more

53:44>> yearly. Exact every two years.

53:46>> Okay. It was an appointment. It was an

53:48appointment to the Okay. I couldn't

53:49remember what it was. [snorts]

53:51>> Okay.

53:52>> So this would pro hopefully temporary a

53:55year. I'm hoping.

53:57>> Yeah. I can't read that specifically,

54:01but um do we feel confident? Does

54:03everybody who can read that feel

54:05confident that it would be one committee

54:07for all four?

54:08>> So those four, let me give you the uh

54:10bucket if you will, but it's council

54:11expenses and reimbursements. They were

54:13the one specifically

54:15um to council. Okay.

54:17>> The four of them aren't really distinct.

54:19They overlap in area. So four separate,

54:22but there's overlap between the four.

54:23>> Yes.

54:26So, um, I'm trying to move us forward.

54:28So,

54:28>> is there perhaps a compromise between

54:30the two, which is to say, we definitely

54:32want a committee, but we're not going to

54:35make the decisions on the committee

54:36tonight as as opposed to we don't know

54:39what format we're going to uh tackle

54:41this in at all, and we want to form a

54:45committee and decide on a lot of the

54:47logistics tonight. we say we feel like a

54:50committee is going to be the right move

54:52but come back to us with the specifics

54:54on it.

54:55>> I think that's fair.

54:56>> Right.

54:56>> So a combination of the motion. The

54:59motion then is the council would like to

55:01form a committee would like staff to

55:03come back with the processes for

55:05understanding the um implementation the

55:09you know the um attendees the

55:12participation and transparency efforts

55:15associated with that committee uh

55:18creation.

55:18>> Yeah, that would be

55:19>> I'd second that.

55:20>> Oh, okay.

55:20>> That sounded like a motion.

55:22>> All right. Oh, so who had the motion?

55:23Britney with Zara.

55:25>> Um um I second it. So Britney, go for

55:27it. Okay. You don't have to repeat it.

55:29Okay. I just want to make sure.

55:30>> So So moved then. [laughter]

55:34>> All right. So all in favor

55:36>> I

55:36>> I

55:37>> Any opposed?

55:38>> Okay. Motion moves forward.

55:39>> All right. Well um thank you for that

55:41discussion.

55:43>> I also have another motion um as well.

55:46>> Uh with regards to some of these.

55:49>> No. U with regards to uh our current

55:52agenda. I'd like to um make a motion to

55:54amend tonight's agenda right now for

55:57discussion later to add an item to

55:59consider the timing of the public

56:01hearing for the resolution uh

56:04authorizing Raleigh Housing Authority to

56:06acquire and preserve mixed income

56:08housing in Kerry. So, so that we can

56:10talk about it. So, amending tonight's

56:13agenda so that we can talk about it

56:14later.

56:15>> Second.

56:16>> Second.

56:17>> Are you saying later like tonight's

56:20meeting?

56:20>> Add it to the end of tonight's agenda.

56:22Yep. So what are we discussing?

56:26>> We're just right now we're just this

56:27tomorrow or not or are we discussing

56:29that in detail?

56:30>> The first part is amending the current

56:32agenda so that we can talk about it. So

56:35I don't know what what that will be but

56:38amending the current agenda.

56:39>> Okay.

56:40>> So we have a second. Any more

56:42discussion?

56:43>> Hey. All in favor?

56:45>> I. Any opposed?

56:47>> Okay. So the agenda is amended and we'll

56:50talk about it at the end. All right.

56:52Thank you.

56:52>> Yes.

56:53>> All right. Um, since we're talking about

56:56um several of these things, I thought it

56:57would be nice to just bring you back um

56:59some of the council initiated items

57:01you've really done over the last eight

57:02months and maybe bring some clo even

57:04though you've um finished some of these

57:06is just acknowledge the work that's been

57:08done and the fact that some of the

57:10status is complete. Um and this has this

57:13is our tracker. um want to figure out a

57:17cadence of doing this um so that you can

57:20see the work that you've been doing

57:21because at a regular meeting you're just

57:23taking the action of something. So we

57:25know like as the first um row um change

57:29discretionary authority and so um you

57:32know when that was done the fact that it

57:34was complete some of these we maybe

57:37still be working on the second one with

57:38um Sria and Michelle um some are

57:41complete some will be wrapped up into

57:43the into the uh work that's going on

57:45with the uh recommendations that have

57:46been made but we know an easier one down

57:49below with the RFP for the independent

57:52external auditor that work was done and

57:54that's complete. eat. Um, I'm not going

57:56to talk about the gravel lot again

57:57anymore.

57:58>> I I would record with that though. That

58:01lot looks terrific.

58:02>> It does.

58:03>> The a very good job was done with a

58:05limited more limited amount of money.

58:08And I every time I walk by it, I'm

58:10impressed. So, I just want to say that

58:12well done.

58:13>> Thank you, Jimmy.

58:14>> Who's that? Jimmy. Well done, Jimmy.

58:16Well done, Jimmy.

58:17>> So, Russ, can I say something? Um for

58:20those watching um online and people

58:24probably don't understand what does this

58:26council initiated item means like you

58:29know could we touch upon that just for

58:32few seconds just to talk about

58:34absolutely

58:34>> how did this pop up on your list?

58:36>> Yes. So, your rules of order um give Did

58:40I say it right?

58:42>> Yes. Um give you um you've adopted this

58:45as a way to and any individual council

58:47member can bring up an item as long as

58:49you have a second and per your rules of

58:51order. Um it's Jenny and I, but we're

58:54really Jenny's going to we're going to

58:56get this placed on agenda for you as you

58:57saw earlier this evening and you can

58:59take one of three actions. Um, and so

59:02all of these came before um a televised

59:06meeting um a previous meeting where they

59:09came up and you took action to I think

59:11in almost all of these to send them back

59:12to staff to bring you more information.

59:14Then you took action at a further

59:16meeting. Um so I think the date

59:18submitted is meaning to be the date that

59:21you emailed it um to us.

59:23>> I think I emailed

59:2612:15.

59:26>> Okay. All right.

59:27>> So

59:28>> I second it on the first. So I think um

59:31that and we'll work on the submitted

59:33date

59:33>> and we presented this on January 6th in

59:36the work session.

59:38>> Yes.

59:38>> And I think um I just want to add that

59:40some of these issues that we as a

59:42council have seen over the last eight

59:45months. That's what we sent to the

59:48staff. And for a council member, we

59:52needed a second by the policy and the

59:54mayor does not need a second. Mayor

59:56could just get anything added to the No,

59:59no, he needs a second.

1:00:00>> Okay, he needs a second, too. Okay, got

1:00:02it.

1:00:04>> Um, and for the same thing, since you

1:00:06there are many of these just as a

1:00:08tracker, we're still working on some and

1:00:10we'll add the one from tonight as well.

1:00:12Um, so I wanted to give you a little bit

1:00:14update on where we are with some of

1:00:16these. Um and recently we've talked

1:00:20about smoke-free ordinance and moratorum

1:00:23and on the ebikes as well to give you a

1:00:26specific updates um with one that was to

1:00:28partner with Wake County Public Schools

1:00:30for safety improvements. We have a

1:00:31meeting with uh school officials next

1:00:33week to see about doing more on that. So

1:00:35we'll bring that back and more. And I

1:00:37actually I did see John walk in um but

1:00:41and I don't know if he has anything to

1:00:43add to this or not or if y'all have any

1:00:44questions but um a while back you also

1:00:47did um uh a request to do a Cricut RFQ.

1:00:51So we've done that. Um interestingly we

1:00:54only received one statement of

1:00:56qualifications. it's from a real estate

1:00:58um development firm and um really at

1:01:01this point I just wanted to make that

1:01:03you know known that we've gotten the

1:01:05qualifications back and we'll update you

1:01:07at a future meeting if it's what that

1:01:10means moving forward because you would

1:01:11typically move forward to a um request

1:01:14for proposals from that group and so we

1:01:17need to evaluate that and bring it back

1:01:19and this was for Cricut at um Mills

1:01:21Park.

1:01:22So, just a few updates on council

1:01:24initiated items.

1:01:27>> All right.

1:01:27>> Can we do the RFQ again? Is that um

1:01:30>> Oh, you could. Yes.

1:01:31>> Is that something that's done on a

1:01:33regular basis where we don't get enough

1:01:35responsible minimum, you know,

1:01:37responsible bids back on things or we

1:01:39don't get

1:01:40>> I don't remember doing it off. I think

1:01:42that's a good question because um John

1:01:44did we get lot of bids and they like

1:01:47none of them were

1:01:49>> they none of them qualified or they were

1:01:52there were some issues that's why we

1:01:54rejected those and only one could make

1:01:56it to the final list.

1:01:58>> Yeah. So at this point we haven't

1:02:00rejected or finished evaluating. We just

1:02:03received but we did receive just the

1:02:05one. Um, and quite frankly, we were a

1:02:07little surprised that it was that number

1:02:09in terms of low. Uh, and so we'll look

1:02:12at that. We've got some evaluation to do

1:02:14of the one that we received and then

1:02:15we'll come back to you guys for what

1:02:17action you guys want to take on that.

1:02:19>> That's odd because I got a call at least

1:02:22from three different groups about this

1:02:25and um I did not know what the processes

1:02:28and I just said go talk to the staff. So

1:02:31I'm surprised that you know

1:02:32>> Yeah, we had we had lots of conversation

1:02:35with lots of different folks. We held

1:02:36multiple uh different meetings that were

1:02:39open to anybody who was interested in

1:02:40learning more, answering questions, all

1:02:42of those things. And we did a pretty

1:02:44extended uh time frame. We did 90 days

1:02:47uh for folks to be able to submit. And

1:02:49so we felt like initially we were going

1:02:52to see far more responses than we

1:02:54actually received by the due date um

1:02:56with only one coming in. But I don't

1:02:58know if they've even met the

1:02:59qualifications or what they've

1:03:01submitted. Uh we're still kind of

1:03:02processing all that. But we'll be back.

1:03:04Thank you.

1:03:05>> Yeah. You're welcome.

1:03:06>> Yeah.

1:03:06>> It's been some amount of time. So I

1:03:08thought it was you just do an update.

1:03:09>> Yeah. [snorts]

1:03:11>> So more information soon, I hope.

1:03:14>> All right. Um this was something that I

1:03:16think y'all asked to bring back. Uh

1:03:18really it was um you've done a council

1:03:20out andabout um email.

1:03:23>> Yeah, it was a newsletter.

1:03:25>> Yeah. Jenny, why don't you just

1:03:26detailing it?

1:03:27>> So, council out and about, it was a

1:03:29newsletter um

1:03:32I think um the former town manager was

1:03:36involved in the creation of it um

1:03:38related to the newsletter that he sends

1:03:39out as well. And it we started it back

1:03:43in August. Um we ended it in May. And

1:03:46because we took council action to create

1:03:48the newsletter, um we were just coming

1:03:51back tonight to take action to remove

1:03:53it. And the newsletter covered

1:03:55activities that council participated

1:03:56during the week. It was posted on

1:03:59social.

1:04:01>> And I'll just start part of um why I

1:04:04asked to bring this up was although I

1:04:07think it's a wonderful opportunity to

1:04:09share what everyone does in community.

1:04:12Um I felt like that we all had a variety

1:04:15of different ways to share that whether

1:04:18it was social media, our own individual

1:04:20newsletters. And my original thought

1:04:24was, you know, we we need to be taking

1:04:26things off of our, you know, hardworking

1:04:29staff's plate at this time while

1:04:31resources are stretched. So then, and

1:04:33since we do have other mechanisms by

1:04:35which to do that, um, why don't we do it

1:04:38on our own rather than asking staff to

1:04:39put that together for us?

1:04:42>> I shared with Sean that I did not feel

1:04:44like this was a good use of our clerk's

1:04:46office time um, when it was initially

1:04:49brought up. So, I am very very much in

1:04:51favor of discontinuing it.

1:04:53>> And Jenny, just to confirm, engagement

1:04:55with this content was pretty low.

1:04:57Correct.

1:04:57>> Very low.

1:04:58>> Yes.

1:05:01>> Just a motion. That's what we need.

1:05:03>> So, do you want me I'll make a motion

1:05:05that we stop the council out and about

1:05:08second.

1:05:09>> Who's a second? Sorry. I'll

1:05:11>> second.

1:05:11>> Three.

1:05:13>> All right. Any other discussion?

1:05:16>> No. All right. All in favor? I

1:05:19>> post. All right. Bye-bye. Out and about.

1:05:23>> Bye-bye. Thank you. Well, hello,

1:05:26assistant manager Stacy Ti, and she's

1:05:28going to go through some uh revenue

1:05:29updates for us.

1:05:30>> Yeah, it's been a little while. It's

1:05:31been a I don't know, probably about a

1:05:32month since I've stood before you all,

1:05:34right? Um so, we're going to take a

1:05:35little trip backwards to fiscal year

1:05:372026. Recently, when we've been talking

1:05:39together, we've been talking about 2027,

1:05:41and that's where we find ourselves

1:05:43today. But I want to give you an update

1:05:45on some of our larger revenue sources.

1:05:47This is the typical routine update that

1:05:50you all get. Um, we're going to start

1:05:52with a conversation about sales tax. Um,

1:05:55this should look familiar to you all.

1:05:56The orange line represents uh fiscal

1:05:58year 2026, the year that we just

1:06:01completed. You're not seeing things. The

1:06:03orange line really does extend just to

1:06:05April because if you remember the way we

1:06:08get that revenue, it runs about two and

1:06:09a half months behind when the sale

1:06:11happens in April. We get that revenue in

1:06:13July, right? Um, so you can see where

1:06:15we're trending along the way compared to

1:06:17the prior fiscal year of 2025. And on

1:06:20the next slide, we'll get into a few

1:06:22updates. Um, this box to the left is

1:06:25giving you year-to- date carry sales tax

1:06:28revenue information. And it's showing us

1:06:30year-to- date in fiscal year 25, we were

1:06:32at about 48.8 million. And year-to-

1:06:35date, again, this is through April sales

1:06:37in 2026 of of the year we just finished,

1:06:40we were at 51 almost 51.3 million. up a

1:06:43little bit. Um we do still have two more

1:06:46months that we will receive. September

1:06:48we'll get our last distribution. Um but

1:06:50you can see that in April the 20 April

1:06:532026 the sales tax receipts were 5.1

1:06:56million and that was up just a very

1:06:57small amount 39%. I think it was about

1:06:59$20,000 over April of the prior year. Um

1:07:04April 26 sales tax receipts were 8.42%

1:07:08lower than the prior month or March of

1:07:10this fiscal year. And right now we are

1:07:13projecting, and this is a projection,

1:07:15right? It could change. I just said we

1:07:16still have two more months of revenue to

1:07:18to bring in on this area. Um, but we are

1:07:20projecting uh $62.2 million in sales

1:07:23tax, which would exceed budget by about

1:07:264.2% or $2.5 million, which is would be

1:07:30lovely if it if it came through that

1:07:32way.

1:07:33So that sales tax,

1:07:35>> excuse me, Stacy, is this one of the

1:07:37factors that contributes to our talking

1:07:40about projected budget numbers and not

1:07:43concrete budget numbers um particularly

1:07:45towards the end of a fiscal year?

1:07:47>> Absolutely. It is. I love that you

1:07:49stopped me and pointed that out. Yes, it

1:07:51is great news that we project we're

1:07:53going to be $2.5 million above in this

1:07:55revenue source, but we don't have the

1:07:57information in yet from the state on the

1:07:59remaining two months and we don't know

1:08:00what kind of sales we're talking about

1:08:02for those months. So, that could dip. It

1:08:04could mean that we meet our budget

1:08:06number. It could mean we go below our

1:08:07budget number. Could mean we exceeded.

1:08:09But yes, that's why we do projections is

1:08:11to help us understand what we think we

1:08:13may be looking at. And then the actuals

1:08:16when we know those, we know those. And

1:08:17when we budget at the beginning of our

1:08:20budgeting process for the the future

1:08:22fiscal year. Yes.

1:08:23>> Can you remind us where we come up with

1:08:25or or what organizations help us

1:08:28estimate what we think our increase in

1:08:31sales tax revenue might be for the

1:08:34future fiscal year.

1:08:35>> Yeah. Love these questions. It comes

1:08:36from a number of areas. First, we look

1:08:38at historical. Uh we secondly look at

1:08:41information that the North Carolina

1:08:42North Carolina League of Municipalities

1:08:45uh presents. They produce a quarterly

1:08:46revenue report. It's very helpful to

1:08:48kind of understand trends that they're

1:08:50seeing. Uh we watch what uh economists

1:08:52in North Carolina, particularly some of

1:08:54those banks out of the Charlotte area,

1:08:56what they're projecting. Um and that is

1:08:58generally the resources that we go to on

1:09:00sales tax when we're trying to

1:09:02understand what that picture might look

1:09:04like for a given fiscal year.

1:09:06>> So clear. Thank you so much.

1:09:07>> Good deal. And though

1:09:09>> not the only reason, not the only factor

1:09:11in thinking about our fund balance and

1:09:14which we just made decisions about how

1:09:17much fund balance to use, but because we

1:09:19are projecting.

1:09:20>> Yes.

1:09:20>> And don't know what those numbers

1:09:22actually are was why we have to be a

1:09:24little more conservative. Correct. Is

1:09:25that correct?

1:09:26>> Well said. Would you also say that we

1:09:29were more conservative, more liberal

1:09:32than the recommended um experts that you

1:09:36just shared?

1:09:36>> For 2026, we were probably a little more

1:09:39conservative. We I'm not going out on

1:09:41that limb yet for 27. It's too early in

1:09:43the fiscal year. You're not going to get

1:09:44me there yet. Um [laughter] but yes, I

1:09:46would rather personally be a little bit

1:09:48more on the conservative side because

1:09:49then if you do earn a little more then

1:09:51you are con if things go well with

1:09:53spending and all things hold true then

1:09:55you are contributing a little bit more

1:09:56to fund balance right but yes there is

1:09:58definitely I talk a lot about art and

1:10:01science um sales tax is not a science

1:10:03sales tax is an art right trying to

1:10:05understand how that particular revenue

1:10:08is going to come to be

1:10:10>> okay thank you

1:10:11>> thank you

1:10:12>> all right yeah I don't want to rush you

1:10:14property tax collections. This is a

1:10:16different story, but I bet we're going

1:10:17to have some of the same questions.

1:10:18How's that? Um, in this case, the year

1:10:21is complete. We have received our our uh

1:10:24property tax revenue from uh our

1:10:27counties, Wake Chadam, and Durham.

1:10:29Again, orange line is 2026, the year we

1:10:31just completed. Blue line prior year.

1:10:34It's very hard, and we'll talk about it

1:10:35in a minute, and I'm going to step out

1:10:36of my box, but this orange line is just

1:10:39a titch below where we were the year

1:10:42prior. Just a very small amount. Um, but

1:10:44that's not really a surprise. We've been

1:10:46talking about that throughout the budget

1:10:47process and some of the things that

1:10:49we've been seeing. So, looking again at

1:10:51this is a year-to-ate chart. In this

1:10:53case, it was year-to- date through June

1:10:54because we had received those receipts.

1:10:56There may be a few things in true reps

1:10:58through the audit that may happen, but

1:10:59for the most part, this is a solid

1:11:01number. Um, so in 2025 at year end, we

1:11:05were at about 167 million. 26 at year

1:11:08end still projecting 178.3 if you round

1:11:11up. Um so 26 property tax actual revenue

1:11:16is estimated to be about 0.56%

1:11:19or approximately $1 million below

1:11:21budget. Um some of that is you know uh

1:11:25we collect the majority of our property

1:11:27colle tax every year but there are some

1:11:29residents that do not pay but it's a

1:11:30tiny amount. Some of this is taxbased

1:11:32changes that we've been talking about uh

1:11:35particularly in Wake County that

1:11:36information that we received from our

1:11:38tax administrator there. Um but all in

1:11:41all it is good news. It is 0.56% less

1:11:44than budget as as estimated but that is

1:11:46a million dollars. Um so take that into

1:11:49account with what we just talked about

1:11:50with sales tax. If we think that's going

1:11:52to be up and this is going to be down to

1:11:55some degree they wash. Um 2026 property

1:11:59tax receipts are estimated to be 6.54%

1:12:03higher than prior year. So while this

1:12:05year is a bit below budget, we are

1:12:07trending more than the prior year. But

1:12:09that is that is also due to the fact

1:12:11that we did have a tax increase in 2026

1:12:15above 25. We raised the tax rate 1.5

1:12:17cents in 26. So that's primarily the

1:12:20difference there.

1:12:22So questions on this one. I don't want

1:12:24to go too fast.

1:12:25>> Do you ever expect to get the 1 million

1:12:28that you expected?

1:12:31I mean, this is pretty tight at the end

1:12:33of the year, so I don't know that we're

1:12:35going to receive this, but um it's not I

1:12:38mean, you very rarely you very rarely

1:12:40receive exactly what you budget. How's

1:12:42that for the factors that I discussed,

1:12:44what people folks that don't pay their

1:12:46bills, that pay them late in the next

1:12:47year, whatever the case may be, or

1:12:49simply just it's all working from an

1:12:51estimate anyway at the beginning of the

1:12:52year, an estimate of the tax base and

1:12:54all of that. Good.

1:12:58Other questions on that? Yep. For people

1:13:01who may be tuning into this that didn't

1:13:04see prior discussions we had, some of

1:13:06this is because it's they are disputing

1:13:08it. Is that correct?

1:13:10>> Some of that can be um some of this is

1:13:12if you recall, we lost about $200

1:13:14million of assessed value in Wake

1:13:15County.

1:13:16>> I just wanted to make sure we just

1:13:18restated it one more time.

1:13:19>> Yes. Yes. And that loss, I want to be

1:13:21clear since we're restating, it was

1:13:24primarily primarily but not completely

1:13:26attributed to the charitable uh

1:13:28charitable tax exemption uh legislation,

1:13:31also known as the blue ridge or the

1:13:33loophole um tax exemption that we've

1:13:35talked about legislation that's being

1:13:37reviewed at the state level.

1:13:39>> Someone emailed me about this. I think

1:13:41it was Mike Green who asked this

1:13:43question or it could be someone else. I

1:13:46apologize if it was not my green but um

1:13:49how many properties did we say and Tana

1:13:52I think I copied you on that email. How

1:13:55many properties were in the list where

1:13:57the property tax was being disputed for

1:14:00>> the last the last information that we

1:14:02received is that there were six under

1:14:04review. Um but I don't have a number for

1:14:06how many prior to that and that was Wake

1:14:09County specific provided by Wake County.

1:14:12I just wanted to make sure it was clear

1:14:14to anyone watching that we're being good

1:14:15stewards, that we're not just saying $1

1:14:17million is nothing and that it's not

1:14:20important.

1:14:21>> Every dollar is important.

1:14:24>> What one million below the budget,

1:14:27>> correct? We are estimating a projection.

1:14:29Again, this will all be vetted

1:14:31throughout the audit process, the

1:14:32year-end audit process that is just now

1:14:34kicking off,

1:14:35>> but the estimate right now is that we

1:14:37will be under budget. we will receive a

1:14:39little bit less than our budget.56%

1:14:42less than our budget

1:14:44>> which equates to about a million

1:14:46dollars.

1:14:46>> So that's the reasonable range of the um

1:14:50>> it is not unreasonable in revenue

1:14:51estimates but to the prior point every

1:14:53dollar is important.

1:14:58>> Okay, I'm going to go one more uh

1:15:00building permit. This is the only slide

1:15:02we have here. It's just a very quick

1:15:04update. This is a very just u it's a

1:15:07very variable revenue source, right?

1:15:08It's definitely not one that has a

1:15:10continuous stream you can count on. Um

1:15:12but we do anticipate coming in above

1:15:15budget on this. Um again, you can see

1:15:17both points go out through June, but we

1:15:20still have to go through our year-end

1:15:21audit process where everything is

1:15:22reviewed and double checked to make sure

1:15:23it was accounted for properly. Um don't

1:15:26expect much change on that picture. Um

1:15:28but is good news. Also good news for

1:15:30development. you know, a little spike.

1:15:31It's dipped again, but we'll see what

1:15:34happens in the year 27.

1:15:36>> Can we raise that? Didn't we raise the

1:15:38cost of that of the permit for a

1:15:40building permit

1:15:40>> in 2027 for the budget year we're now

1:15:42in? Again, this is 2026 year just ended,

1:15:45but yes,

1:15:46>> but moving forward, we we raised the

1:15:48cost a little bit. Yes.

1:15:48>> A little bit. Yeah.

1:15:49>> Okay.

1:15:51>> All right. One more. Last one. Solid

1:15:54waste. This one looks pretty

1:15:55predictable, right? This is one where

1:15:57every month your bill comes in, people

1:15:58pay your bills. Um and really the only

1:16:01difference between the two was in 2026

1:16:03we increased the solid waste fee. Um

1:16:06again we've increased that in 27 as

1:16:08well. Um very steady just a little bit

1:16:11higher revenue because of the fee

1:16:13increase.

1:16:14>> So the revenue of the solid waste fee um

1:16:18will go to the utility

1:16:20>> to the general fund because the

1:16:21expenditures associated with that are

1:16:23budgeted in the general fund within

1:16:24public works.

1:16:27Just make sure what are those revenues

1:16:29that go into

1:16:30>> the water bill revenues go into utility

1:16:33fund.

1:16:33>> Correct. Yeah.

1:16:34>> Correct. They are build together which

1:16:36does create a little confusion because

1:16:38you do pay your solid waste fee with

1:16:39your utility payment together on your

1:16:42utility bill. So

1:16:43>> and solid waste fee is something you've

1:16:44talked about in the form of a cost

1:16:46recovery amount. Correct. to pay for the

1:16:48solid waste service even though it goes

1:16:50to general fund but just more recently

1:16:52in budgets you've talked about it as to

1:16:54what you wish to recover

1:16:56>> on a

1:16:56>> right and we moved that up because it

1:16:58was at 97%

1:17:01907

1:17:04to a higher cost also continues to go up

1:17:08>> so if you don't do anything the percent

1:17:09would go down

1:17:12>> yeah so I think that closes things out

1:17:14and brings things back to you Russ

1:17:17>> does and I'll turn it over to Jenny for

1:17:19what should prove to be a fun part of

1:17:21the agenda [laughter]

1:17:23>> as we look at your schedules.

1:17:25>> Yes. So, you got full warning that we

1:17:27were going to go through schedules

1:17:28today. And so, just kind of a couple

1:17:30things at your seat as you think about

1:17:32this conversation. You have your 2006

1:17:35um 2026 meeting schedule followed by the

1:17:38proposed one starting January through

1:17:41March in 2027.

1:17:43And um this was initially adopted by

1:17:45council on December the 4th, 2025. The

1:17:492027 will come back to council in the

1:17:52December, but we we'd like to plan out a

1:17:55far in advance. And so we start

1:17:57scheduling them and populating them on

1:17:58your calendar as well and then bringing

1:18:01them forward when we adopt your calendar

1:18:03throughout the year. Um next you have

1:18:07it's a list of dates. Um that's our

1:18:09reference list of holidays that um that

1:18:12are carry state holidays, carry holidays

1:18:14and then also dates that we observe um

1:18:17because we know they have impacts on

1:18:18people attending um also then followed

1:18:21by a list of dates that we are mindful

1:18:24of but they don't influence our

1:18:25scheduling of meetings. So these are two

1:18:28things um that we send out each year to

1:18:30council. I think we've been doing the

1:18:32reference list for I want to say three

1:18:34years now. Um, it just helps with our

1:18:36scheduling. And since we're talking

1:18:38about schedules, I thought it'd be good

1:18:39just to bring those, have them at your

1:18:40desk where you and then also so you get

1:18:42familiar with them. Hopeful.

1:18:45But, um, so

1:18:48out to the fun part.

1:18:52>> All right. We're going to go through

1:18:53quarterly date review. So, the purpose

1:18:55of tonight's activity

1:18:58>> is to look at for an August September

1:19:02quarterly date. Um you'll see in red I

1:19:05have the original date highlighted

1:19:08and you'll see August. This comes

1:19:10straight from your council

1:19:12your um meeting schedule calendar

1:19:16online so you can kind of see

1:19:17everything. Um the X's is marks out one

1:19:23um dates that are not available from a

1:19:26staff perspective. Also some of those

1:19:27dates on that reference list list that I

1:19:30gave you. So,

1:19:33we need to find one that is after the

1:19:35August 13th date. Um, and I put these at

1:19:39the top. The new date cannot be the same

1:19:41week as a regular council meeting.

1:19:42That's just a lot on staff to try to get

1:19:44ready for both. And,

1:19:47um, also noting that the mayor is not

1:19:49here tonight, we'd like to find maybe

1:19:51two to three dates that would work. I

1:19:53can run those by him and then have a

1:19:55date that would um, be on your agenda

1:19:58for Thursday so that we can get it

1:19:59settled. and um quickly get the calendar

1:20:03updated and everything. And so I didn't

1:20:06ex out anything from your um personal

1:20:09calendars or personal obligations. So

1:20:11those are the things that you bring

1:20:12forward tonight to to see, you know,

1:20:15which date may work best.

1:20:20And so we need a quarterly date that's

1:20:24in August or September is the first

1:20:27thing to

1:20:27>> Yes. look at

1:20:29>> and we already have one scheduled for

1:20:30November. Is that also to be discussed

1:20:32or no?

1:20:33>> Yes. And at a previous work session, I

1:20:34think Lori, you said that you could not

1:20:36make the November one, right?

1:20:37>> So, it's the conversation of, you know,

1:20:40would you want to reschedule that and if

1:20:42so, looking at that tonight as well.

1:20:45>> I also mentioned in 3x4 this week that I

1:20:49think it's time for us to just decide on

1:20:52how much flexibility we want to we have

1:20:54to keep doing this,

1:20:55>> right? Um we get because we get it this

1:20:57so far in advance if people can't come

1:20:59they can't come right unless we're not

1:21:01going to have a quorum of course.

1:21:02>> Yes.

1:21:03>> Uh but it's

1:21:04>> Yep.

1:21:05>> Just to just for

1:21:06>> how important is is it to everyone if

1:21:09one person can't make it correct.

1:21:11>> Right.

1:21:12>> And I I appreciate that because I missed

1:21:15them before. So I understand that the

1:21:18need or desire

1:21:21>> for some people to need to be here but

1:21:23um I'm not Yeah. I'm not

1:21:24>> Oh, I get it. But in the same breath, I

1:21:26introduced the idea that we should move

1:21:29the annual retreat date because it falls

1:21:31on my birthday every year. [laughter]

1:21:33>> No.

1:21:33>> Or the weekend of my birthday, right? Um

1:21:36so take take that for what you want.

1:21:38>> Well, and and I'll add with um

1:21:40technology now, you can call in. Um you

1:21:43can watch it later. Yes.

1:21:44>> Um there's just a different means that

1:21:46you're able to stay up um to date with

1:21:47what happened at a meeting,

1:21:49>> right? Yes.

1:21:51So Jenny, do you need dates proposed

1:21:53then for August?

1:21:54>> Yes. So August, September, especially

1:21:56for the August, September date, you

1:21:58can't go to October. You know, you're

1:22:00kind of bleeding into the November um

1:22:02time frame. So I mean, we can start with

1:22:06the 17th, 18th, um 25th, you know, any

1:22:12of these dates kind of moving forward.

1:22:1425th would not work for me from I'm

1:22:17going to I will not be available

1:22:19starting from 19th August I have to go

1:22:22drop off my child in DC so I will not be

1:22:26I will be very grumpy

1:22:27>> you said not after the 25th

1:22:30>> so um 19th from August 19th

1:22:33>> and then I'm out on vacation

1:22:36>> and do you know the mayor's unavailable

1:22:37on the 18th

1:22:39>> unable 18th

1:22:41>> and so Jenny we usually aim to have

1:22:44these on Thursdays, but it looks like in

1:22:45the interest of getting this scheduled,

1:22:47any weekday is up for grabs.

1:22:49>> I think so. Yes.

1:22:50>> Being mindful of the criteria at the

1:22:52top.

1:22:52>> Yes.

1:22:52>> Yes.

1:22:54>> Jenny, um 17th, 18th of August, or

1:22:58September 15th, I'll propose any of

1:23:01these dates if

1:23:04>> you said that.

1:23:04>> You just said you couldn't do the

1:23:06>> You just said you couldn't do the the

1:23:0817th or 18th. No, she said

1:23:09>> no I said 17 18th I can from starting

1:23:12from 19

1:23:14and not available

1:23:15>> but Jenny said the she knows the mayor

1:23:17is not available on the 18th but so the

1:23:1917th

1:23:20>> could be

1:23:21>> is in contention [laughter]

1:23:22>> could be an yes if we want to talk about

1:23:24the 17th first

1:23:25>> the 17th is okay

1:23:27>> the mayor and I are traveling I don't

1:23:28know when he's coming back but I won't

1:23:30be back until

1:23:32later on the 17th but if it's just me

1:23:35I'm comfortable with others moving

1:23:37forward That sounds like a lot. I I say

1:23:41probably those dates are for the best.

1:23:43>> So, we can go down to the maybe because

1:23:45we went to the next week because it's

1:23:47the same

1:23:47>> as a council meeting

1:23:48>> as a council meeting date. So, then you

1:23:50go into the 31st, the week of the 31st.

1:23:53>> I'm um out of country. I'm um I will be

1:23:57back on 7th September. So, any date

1:23:59after that would work. How about

1:24:01September 15th?

1:24:03>> September 15th. Okay, we can look at

1:24:04that one if everybody wants to weigh in.

1:24:06Works for me.

1:24:08September 15th.

1:24:09>> September 15th worked for me.

1:24:14>> Bella, anyone have a problem with

1:24:16>> I don't plan too far away from it.

1:24:18[laughter]

1:24:19Just go ahead.

1:24:21>> It doesn't help to plan ahead.

1:24:23>> The date pick the date. [laughter]

1:24:28>> Should we put two on the calendar just

1:24:30in case? Should we Can everybody look at

1:24:32the 29th? September 29th. So that in

1:24:36case Harold work

1:24:37>> both work for me

1:24:41>> works for me.

1:24:41>> Both work for me too.

1:24:43>> Okay.

1:24:43>> Jenny, can we put the block on the

1:24:45calendar so that we don't overbook

1:24:48ourselves because I would hate for these

1:24:50dates to get blocked. [laughter]

1:24:52So, I'll go ahead and put the blocks on

1:24:54tonight after this meeting and then um

1:24:57figure out the um I'll talk to the mayor

1:25:00tomorrow and then we'll have the list on

1:25:02we'll amend the agenda on Thursday to

1:25:04include the final date.

1:25:09>> Jenny, if you wanted up to three dates,

1:25:11>> you could add the 16th as well or does

1:25:14anybody have a conflict? 15.

1:25:15>> 16th is a Sunday.

1:25:17>> Oh, September.

1:25:18>> Oh, September 16th.

1:25:24I I can't be here the 16th.

1:25:26>> Okay,

1:25:27>> that matters.

1:25:29>> Yes.

1:25:29>> Yes, I think that matters. [laughter]

1:25:32>> You decide my vacation days like you say

1:25:35more than I do usually. So, yes, we'd

1:25:37like you to be here. [laughter]

1:25:39>> Well, I was I was going to spread the

1:25:40love to this wonderful group could lead

1:25:43you through a quarterly meeting.

1:25:45>> Happy birthday. Mhm.

1:25:47>> So, we'll Sounds like we'll go with the

1:25:4915th and the 29th.

1:25:56>> I don't know of any I don't hear of

1:25:58anything else available.

1:26:00No, I mean, if you want another one, um

1:26:03maybe the 2nd of October. Oh, no. Sorry.

1:26:08It's blocked.

1:26:09>> I see.

1:26:09>> And we can ongoing

1:26:12September.

1:26:12>> Might be too close.

1:26:13>> Why not the first week in September?

1:26:15Sure is out until the 7th, right? Yeah.

1:26:21>> Yeah.

1:26:23>> I will be in Europe, but if you guys

1:26:25want to go ahead and have the meeting,

1:26:27so be it.

1:26:27>> I [laughter] mean, we'll check maybe if

1:26:29>> the third

1:26:30>> find out if he's available for one of

1:26:31those and if we need to come.

1:26:33>> Yeah.

1:26:34>> If we need to back off and make it the

1:26:36third.

1:26:38>> So, the third would be the third option.

1:26:40>> Yeah.

1:26:41>> Yes.

1:26:42>> Third is not an option for me. Okay,

1:26:44make note.

1:26:47Okay.

1:26:50All right. Um, in November, are we

1:26:52leaving as scheduled?

1:26:54>> Just Just leave it. I'm not going to

1:26:56force everybody else to move it because

1:26:58I'm not here.

1:27:00>> What's the date? November 5th.

1:27:02>> 5th. Yeah, because then you back it into

1:27:05Thanksgiving and people who are

1:27:07>> Yeah, that one hard for me to move.

1:27:11>> That's fine.

1:27:12>> There's not much room. call in from

1:27:15Europe.

1:27:16>> No, it wouldn't.

1:27:20>> Oh, another [laughter]

1:27:22>> Wait,

1:27:23>> wait, there's more.

1:27:24>> There's more.

1:27:25>> Oh my god.

1:27:25>> And we have to take in consideration our

1:27:27optional dates, too. So, um, at the June

1:27:3223rd work session, council asked that we

1:27:35schedule start scheduling joint meetings

1:27:37with a couple municipalities.

1:27:39And I um so these are after hours. I

1:27:43don't know if that makes it a little

1:27:44easier. Not a full day. They would be

1:27:47>> when you say after hours, that means

1:27:49like after 5 5 p.m. Okay.

1:27:51>> Yeah. And so we're just looking for um

1:27:55and we highlighted a couple options

1:27:56knowing that you know you just filled up

1:27:58two options

1:28:00with a quarterly potential and we can

1:28:03still look at those but five to six

1:28:05preferred dates that I can go to the

1:28:07clerks of these municipalities

1:28:10um and say to them like here's [snorts]

1:28:12four dates which one works best for you

1:28:14and just kind of work through the list.

1:28:20I I'm I was just I was going to say we

1:28:22could do it after or quarterly, but I'm

1:28:23always so pooped my brain is squishy. I

1:28:25don't want to do that.

1:28:26>> And if you go long that kind of

1:28:28>> Yeah.

1:28:29>> Um

1:28:30>> I know we might have some challenges

1:28:32with like Morrisville, their council

1:28:35meetings are on Tuesdays, right? So that

1:28:38might limit different ones. I'd really

1:28:40like to not miss a volunteer border

1:28:44commission, but I understand that's

1:28:47>> potential. So maybe we could lean into

1:28:49some of the other days when there aren't

1:28:52when they aren't there.

1:28:53>> How many meetings do we Oh, we need

1:28:55four.

1:28:56>> We'd like five to per six five to six

1:28:58preferred dates and then there's four um

1:29:02joint meetings that council has

1:29:03requested.

1:29:04>> And what is this yellow?

1:29:06>> Yellow is the ones that we suggest. Um

1:29:09just kind of we

1:29:11>> knowing that we had to pick so many, we

1:29:12thought we would just like start

1:29:14somewhere. Yeah. Wednesday, September

1:29:1716th is is going to be okay. My public

1:29:19art board is very they're very nice

1:29:21people and will understand.

1:29:22>> Okay. And does that work for others?

1:29:24>> Which one was that again?

1:29:26>> September 16th.

1:29:27>> Yes. Yeah, that works for me.

1:29:29>> And on September 2nd, my senior advisory

1:29:32board's at noon. So, it doesn't

1:29:33interfere with if we want to do after

1:29:355:00 p.m.

1:29:40>> So, you're out. Is that okay with you?

1:29:42>> Which date?

1:29:43>> Um, September the 2nd. Yeah. I'm not

1:29:45>> Oh, that's right. You're in Europe.

1:29:46>> Yeah.

1:29:48>> So, that's for all the console meeting.

1:29:51>> Yeah.

1:29:53>> And well, could we say let's the 15th

1:29:56and the 29th as long as Harold is

1:29:58available that we schedule one?

1:30:00>> Mhm.

1:30:01>> On [snorts] one of those days.

1:30:03>> Yeah.

1:30:05>> Opposite the quarterly.

1:30:07>> Yeah.

1:30:07>> Yes.

1:30:08>> But not in conjunction. Yes. Yes.

1:30:11[laughter] So, whichever one Yeah. a

1:30:13flip-flop and we can I mean you know

1:30:15this one can go into October and

1:30:17November.

1:30:18>> Yes, let's look at October

1:30:20>> as well. it, you know, October the 15th,

1:30:23even though you see um something there

1:30:26for a volunteer committee, it's the

1:30:28greenway committee, so account there's

1:30:30not a council leazison involved in that.

1:30:34>> You don't have the

1:30:38the the Hamsa Diwali dance here like

1:30:42what date is that?

1:30:44>> Oh, what the actual performance?

1:30:46>> It's on the 10th.

1:30:46>> It's on Saturday.

1:30:48>> Oh, okay. So on the

1:30:50>> 19th

1:30:51>> September

1:30:52>> October 3rd to the 17th I am out of the

1:30:55country.

1:30:55>> October 3rd to the

1:30:57>> but I'm not going to Yeah. I'm not going

1:30:58to block off half of the

1:31:00>> month

1:31:03>> and and I'm up to the 6th on October the

1:31:06weekend through the 6th. So the 5th and

1:31:10the 6th. So those two wouldn't work for

1:31:12me. But the 12th,

1:31:16>> Chissa, would you be okay

1:31:18>> if we

1:31:19>> I'll live.

1:31:20>> Okay. [laughter]

1:31:21>> So, maybe the the 12th and what about

1:31:23the 15th?

1:31:2515th works for me, too.

1:31:29>> My calendar resets every year as the

1:31:31school year sets, so I have nothing on

1:31:33here. So, I'll just have to be flexible,

1:31:35okay, to be there when I need to be

1:31:37there.

1:31:38>> November 9th and 16th are great for me,

1:31:40too.

1:31:46that work for everybody? I mean the

1:31:47other option would be the 26 October 26.

1:31:51I mean

1:31:53>> I know you the planning and zoning board

1:31:57is recorded but

1:31:59>> you don't generally interact with them.

1:32:00They run their own meeting. So

1:32:03>> that might I have a thing on

1:32:06>> say I have something on my calendar for

1:32:07that day.

1:32:08>> Yeah. October that is the downtown park

1:32:10Dvali.

1:32:10>> Oh. Oh, it's not on my other calendar.

1:32:16Never mind.

1:32:19And then there's the 16th of November.

1:32:24The 16th also November 16th work for me

1:32:28too.

1:32:28>> And November 9th

1:32:30>> and not not for me. The 9th. I'm not

1:32:32here. You're not here.

1:32:34>> I'm not here on 16th and 17th October.

1:32:36But I'm not going to hold my breath for

1:32:38this one.

1:32:38>> The 16th of October. Right. Okay. Yeah,

1:32:41those aren't any of the proposed dates,

1:32:43so that's good.

1:32:43>> Okay.

1:32:44>> Yeah, I think we have enough um to work

1:32:46with, you know, 15th starting in

1:32:48September the 15th, 16th, 29th, October

1:32:51the 12th, the 15th, and then um November

1:32:56the 16th.

1:33:03>> Works. Okay. You sure you got what you

1:33:06needed? Cuz this is this strike while

1:33:08the air is hot. I mean, I don't know if

1:33:10I can come back. [laughter]

1:33:12Um,

1:33:14okay. And the last one is to talk about

1:33:16the retreat date for the 2027.

1:33:19So, it is, if you wanted to kind of put

1:33:22in the perspective date, you would go to

1:33:24your meeting schedule for 2026 and flip

1:33:27to the next page. It's 2027.

1:33:30Right now, we're holding the fourth

1:33:31Friday and Saturday, the 26th to 27th

1:33:35um for the annual meeting.

1:33:37>> [snorts]

1:33:38>> Say that again. The 26th and 27th annual

1:33:40meeting,

1:33:41>> February.

1:33:42>> Yes.

1:33:44And so there's been the request to

1:33:46change it. Um, as Carissa said, and just

1:33:49looking at the weekend before

1:33:53>> that's so far out, it doesn't matter.

1:33:55[laughter]

1:33:56>> Well, what I'm asking,

1:33:57>> my vacation's a year ahead. I'm what I'm

1:33:59asking is for us to permanently move it

1:34:01to the third

1:34:03third weekend in fe February instead of

1:34:06the final weekend in February.

1:34:08>> Is it a random date? I mean, we need it

1:34:10to be a certain time.

1:34:13>> Um, it doesn't need to be a certain

1:34:16time. If we had I mean I think it's

1:34:20always we compare it to like the

1:34:22logistics. So, um, if we had some

1:34:26expectations of when council wanted it,

1:34:28then that would help kind of narrow down

1:34:29also the logistics as well.

1:34:32>> I I actually like your idea of changing

1:34:35it in our heads to be the third weekend

1:34:37of February rather than the last one

1:34:39because I think that way it's a target

1:34:41for all of us and we know that for the

1:34:43future rather than always celebrating

1:34:46your birthday and

1:34:47>> then they don't have to race home and

1:34:49have a surprise surprise party again.

1:34:53So, I'm good with that if that's I don't

1:34:55have anything and I'll block it.

1:34:58>> Okay. Does anybody else have any

1:35:00problems with that?

1:35:02>> I don't plan that far on. So,

1:35:04>> Oh, we [laughter] need to check with

1:35:05Harold, too. I don't think I brought it

1:35:07up to

1:35:07>> all these dates. I'll run by him. I'm

1:35:09sure he's going to be listening in

1:35:10tomorrow or even tonight right now. Um,

1:35:13but that works. So,

1:35:16we will have we'll bring this back on

1:35:19Thursday and then also update the

1:35:21retreat date on Thursday, too.

1:35:23>> Thank you.

1:35:23>> So, we got it.

1:35:25>> I'm solid.

1:35:26>> I'm really going to miss having Chris a

1:35:28birthday cake at the retreat, but

1:35:30[laughter]

1:35:32>> that's it for you, Jenny.

1:35:33>> That's it.

1:35:34>> All right. Before we adjourn, you

1:35:36amended your um agenda um for one

1:35:39additional item. So,

1:35:40>> that's right.

1:35:41There's been um a significant amount of

1:35:43discussion about the Raleigh Housing

1:35:45Authority, which is currently on the

1:35:48agenda for Thursday. Um and there not

1:35:52only have there been obviously resident

1:35:54concerns, but recently heard that um the

1:35:58Raleigh Council was not aware of as well

1:36:02of the Raleigh Housing Authorities and I

1:36:04think a few of us received some calls

1:36:06about that today. Um, in order to allow

1:36:09us some additional time, I'd like to u

1:36:12make a motion to remove the public

1:36:15hearing that's item three for the RHA

1:36:17resolution from the July 23rd agenda to

1:36:21and I would need a second and then we

1:36:23could discuss it.

1:36:24>> No, second. Okay. Anyone want to weigh

1:36:27in?

1:36:30Well, we haven't had a chance to discuss

1:36:32because it is a relatively recent

1:36:35addition to an agenda and we haven't had

1:36:36a chance and I haven't had my 3x4 this

1:36:38week yet either to know the timing of it

1:36:41and I don't know if Heather might need

1:36:42to chime in. Was this time sensitive

1:36:45because of the nature of the sale?

1:36:48>> Yes. So, what they provided

1:36:53us, but based on their contractual

1:36:56arrangement for making a um purchase

1:36:59request for that property, they needed

1:37:01it to be done.

1:37:02>> Uh sooner rather than later by the end

1:37:04of July, I believe. Yeah, maybe July

1:37:0627th. I can't remember the date.

1:37:07>> They already paid the um down payment.

1:37:11Not not down payment, but like

1:37:12>> earnest money,

1:37:14>> due diligence.

1:37:14>> Due diligence is like $2 million. If

1:37:17they don't go ahead, they will lose the

1:37:20two million. So that's why they're in a

1:37:22uh urgent, but they can still without

1:37:24our um uh this um carry everything, they

1:37:29can still go ahead with without this

1:37:31ordinance. So um

1:37:34>> I want to make sure I understand the

1:37:35motion is for us to remove them from our

1:37:38agenda.

1:37:38>> It is currently on the agenda to discuss

1:37:41and to make a go no-go decision

1:37:44>> tomorrow. Uh th

1:37:46>> Thursday

1:37:47>> because today is Tuesday.

1:37:49>> Sorry. [laughter]

1:37:50>> But the applicant wants it on the agenda

1:37:52on Thursday as of what we know right now

1:37:55because they scheduled a meeting with me

1:37:57tomorrow to try to run through this. I'm

1:38:00curious about the president of

1:38:03being asked to vote yes or no on

1:38:06something and us removing it from an

1:38:09agenda when it's been requested to be on

1:38:12the agenda.

1:38:13>> I mean, that's a great point. I also am

1:38:15concerned that there's not enough I

1:38:19don't want to use the word due diligence

1:38:21but discussion and that they're they and

1:38:24we are prepared to make a decision on

1:38:27Thursday.

1:38:28>> Yeah.

1:38:28>> Um without giving a time certain of when

1:38:31they may or may not return. I just think

1:38:34that from my perspective there's still a

1:38:37lot of work and a lot of

1:38:39intergovernmental relations that need to

1:38:41be talked about. I'm quite concerned

1:38:43when a Raleigh city council member calls

1:38:45you and says, "We didn't know about

1:38:46this."

1:38:47>> Oh, I completely agree.

1:38:49>> I don't think it's I I feel like they

1:38:51they need an opportunity to do that

1:38:54ground work before they come to us.

1:38:56>> And that sounds like new information

1:38:58that you got today, which probably

1:38:59wasn't discussed in the 3x4s for others,

1:39:02but I'm along with Council Member

1:39:05Richards. I'm wondering if it's like you

1:39:08assume you missed something if you

1:39:09haven't if you weren't editing if if

1:39:11there's anything staff would like to

1:39:14tell us that we haven't been told since

1:39:16we haven't had our 3x4s this week or can

1:39:20and st can staff also speak to what

1:39:23council member Wong was just saying what

1:39:25happens what happens if we vote yes on

1:39:30what was just proposed. So we had our

1:39:333x4 um Chris and I met with um the staff

1:39:37and mayor was there too and we discussed

1:39:39this briefly at least from in that

1:39:42meeting at that moment and I believe

1:39:44that every day it changes. So I I just

1:39:47want to make sure that you have not

1:39:48missed out any information like

1:39:51>> usually never but you always assume you

1:39:53have if you

1:39:54>> Heather's ready to share

1:39:55>> at least in that meeting um I don't

1:39:58think we had all the details to be

1:40:00shared with the council members. So I

1:40:03felt like leaving that meeting that I am

1:40:05not ready to vote on this particular

1:40:08that's just my opinion. I don't think

1:40:10the expectation was for us to feel

1:40:11comfortable voting on it after that

1:40:13without getting and as we always tell

1:40:15people, we haven't had the hearing yet.

1:40:17I can't tell you if I support or don't

1:40:20support something if I haven't had

1:40:22>> the staff report, which is always

1:40:24critical, right?

1:40:25>> And, you know, hear from the the

1:40:26applicant.

1:40:27>> Like right now, I'm tempted to pull

1:40:28things up on my phone, but I don't want

1:40:30to look like I'm like texting someone.

1:40:31>> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter]

1:40:33And clearly there's new information

1:40:35seemingly every hour on

1:40:37>> but just before other but just to be

1:40:39clear the intention was to vote on it

1:40:43>> tomorrow. Thursday

1:40:47saying it. Yes.

1:40:48>> I'm hoping Heather you can add clarity.

1:40:50I'm sorry Miss Wheeland if you can add

1:40:52some some clarity into what the

1:40:53repercussions would be if we do not

1:40:55allow the public hearing and vote as

1:40:57requested. Well, I can I can share with

1:40:59you that the Raleigh Housing Authority

1:41:01asked us to put this forward to you for

1:41:04consideration

1:41:05um during the due diligence period when

1:41:08they have an offer in on the property

1:41:10Amberwood at Lockmeir. So, that this is

1:41:12the soonest that we could bring it

1:41:14forward for community and council

1:41:16consideration.

1:41:17Um and they petitioned us to do that and

1:41:20provided the information that they are

1:41:22under contract to do so. Um it's

1:41:24naturally occurring affordable housing.

1:41:26Um and so um based on the housing plan

1:41:30and and some of our imaginary community

1:41:32plan policies and and them being a um

1:41:34state chartered government agency, we

1:41:37wanted to bring that to you for your

1:41:39consideration um as they requested. And

1:41:42so um in the in the prior couple weeks,

1:41:45we have, you know, continued to get

1:41:47questions from residents um and

1:41:50potentially, you know, information that

1:41:53residents and that you might want. And

1:41:55then um today it um this is not this is

1:41:59new information to me but um the Raleigh

1:42:01Housing Authority indicated that their

1:42:03board um and um whatever governance they

1:42:07need from their um elected officials

1:42:08that that had been procured. So um so

1:42:12that is new information if there's not

1:42:14full alignment um on their end but we

1:42:17were bringing it forward to your for

1:42:18your consideration um based on their

1:42:21request you know um and their um due

1:42:23diligence period.

1:42:25>> Yeah.

1:42:27>> Can they move forward if we don't vote

1:42:31or we vote no? They have indicated to us

1:42:34that their due diligence period ends on

1:42:36Monday and they cannot operate in

1:42:39karaasa housing authority without this

1:42:41authorizing resolution. So that would be

1:42:42their decision to make whether they

1:42:44wanted to, you know, withdraw from their

1:42:46due diligence period or wanted to move

1:42:48forward. I don't know what they would

1:42:50choose to do, but if they want to

1:42:52operate as a housing authority, they

1:42:54would need your your your authorization

1:42:56to do so. And they still right now are

1:42:58in their due diligence period. So they

1:43:00certainly have put money on the line and

1:43:02my understanding is that would become

1:43:03hard money on Monday. Um so hence their

1:43:06their request for you to consider it um

1:43:09at this time.

1:43:11>> Yeah. So my so my concern is having

1:43:13heard from a Raleigh council member um

1:43:15for those of us who who know Raleigh

1:43:17Housing Authority

1:43:19um is partially funded by the city of

1:43:22Raleigh um receives authorization from

1:43:24Raleigh. um some of their board members

1:43:27are appointed by the Raleigh City

1:43:30Council and my feeling is that it might

1:43:33be shortsighted to ask Carrie for

1:43:36authorization for the Raleigh Housing

1:43:39Authority

1:43:40um to be here when they aren't aligned

1:43:43yet as it was shared with me with

1:43:46Raleigh. So that they're using Raleigh

1:43:50funds

1:43:52>> in Kerry and I would it just for me the

1:43:55right uh moment is to to slow down allow

1:43:59Raleigh and the Raleigh Housing

1:44:00Authority to align internally and then

1:44:04have a a deliberate

1:44:06>> discussion about you know how we all can

1:44:09work together in a regional affordable

1:44:10housing way because we're all well I

1:44:13don't want to say all but uh majority of

1:44:15the of the council I know wants to

1:44:17preserve affordable housing but and but

1:44:20we need to have expectations and

1:44:22discussions about safety and

1:44:24accountability and the use of public

1:44:27funds. So I'm afraid that this is this

1:44:32is too quick

1:44:34>> for us to make a well informed data

1:44:37informed decision

1:44:39>> and I'm not sure why did they not engage

1:44:42the council before giving this due

1:44:45diligence because it's a big amount. Did

1:44:47they did they not want to

1:44:52>> I can't speak to their their strategy

1:44:54around their own council engagement.

1:44:55>> Yeah, great question. Yeah, this might

1:44:58be a similar answer. By statute, they

1:45:02have to request our authority to operate

1:45:04as a housing authority within our

1:45:05municipal borders, but there was no

1:45:08equivalent or ordinance that they had to

1:45:11get authorization from Raleigh.

1:45:14Um my understanding is no. Their board

1:45:17is appointed and once they're chartered

1:45:19um you know I don't they're and and we

1:45:21um

1:45:22>> you know weren't monitoring their own

1:45:25governance within their board. You know

1:45:27it's the executive director that's

1:45:28making the request to us. So we're

1:45:29bringing that forward you know in

1:45:30earnest to you um with the presumption

1:45:33that they're following their own um

1:45:36governance procedures.

1:45:38>> Out of curiosity when did the due

1:45:40diligence period begin? I don't know

1:45:42exactly when it began, but they've

1:45:44notified us that it ends on Monday. And

1:45:47we first um were uh approached about

1:45:50this at the be beginning of June. So,

1:45:52this is the the soonest that we could

1:45:54bring it forward to an agenda for you

1:45:56and you know pull a staff report

1:45:58together.

1:45:59>> Yeah.

1:45:59>> Did did they indicate that they could um

1:46:02extend it in any way or they were not

1:46:04able what do you know about that the end

1:46:06date? They indicated that there's no

1:46:09further time in this contract due

1:46:11diligence period, but I don't know, you

1:46:13know, potentially. Um, I think it has

1:46:16been on the market.

1:46:18>> Um,

1:46:19>> and I want to mention that uh, Mayor

1:46:22Proan Bush uh, to add this to our

1:46:24discussion today, especially a lot of

1:46:27things happened today before the work

1:46:30session and I appreciate uh, Scott and

1:46:33Heather bringing the time. is very tight

1:46:36meeting because I was just came back

1:46:38midnight today and we had a meeting with

1:46:41Lochmir HOA this noon during lunchtime.

1:46:46So uh also we heard a lot of questions

1:46:49from the residents and I think that's

1:46:51very important and they're not against

1:46:54affordable housing. they just need more

1:46:57information and feel the timing is too

1:46:59rush [snorts] and for our council me uh

1:47:02for me I feel it's hard to make a

1:47:05decision for such a short time and uh

1:47:08Heather you could uh bring in more

1:47:11thoughts on the resident size uh I think

1:47:14uh the people in front of the um screen

1:47:18will hear more.

1:47:20Yeah, we met with several me residents

1:47:22at Lockmir and there's been a, you know,

1:47:24a number of comments that we've received

1:47:27um as we often do when we put out a

1:47:29public hearing notice. Um and so that is

1:47:31is not unusual, but um we've done our

1:47:34best to respond individually to comments

1:47:36that had questions in them. Um but

1:47:39certainly, you know, the the residents

1:47:40raised um legitimate questions from

1:47:43their perspective um across array array

1:47:46of issues. So, um, I think many of the

1:47:49questions are addressed in the staff

1:47:51report, but but not all of them.

1:47:54>> So, Heather, you don't have a crystal

1:47:56ball, unfortunately, to tell us how this

1:47:58all plays out.

1:48:00I I do just want to think about though

1:48:02the consequences of, you know, any one

1:48:06course of action because my fear is the

1:48:09possibility in a a perfect world, we

1:48:12would have all the time we needed to

1:48:14collect all the information we wanted

1:48:15and to answer all of the residents

1:48:17questions before we made a decision.

1:48:20My fear is if we delay this vote or

1:48:23remove it from the agenda on Thursday,

1:48:26there's the scenario where that delay is

1:48:28effectively foreclosing the possibility

1:48:32of this being preserved as affordable

1:48:36housing. And it sounds as if and we

1:48:39don't get to make Raleigh Housing

1:48:41Authorities decisions for them, but it

1:48:43sounds like one course of action for

1:48:44them could be that then this deal

1:48:47doesn't proceed. And we know that then a

1:48:51likely scenario is this goes back to the

1:48:54open market and a private entity

1:48:57purchases it and we've talked about the

1:48:59scenario if it's refurbished and rents

1:49:00are raised. So my my fear is is that it

1:49:04sounds as if

1:49:06we remove it from the agenda in order to

1:49:08have more time to make a decision.

1:49:10Really we might in some ways be making

1:49:12that decision tonight.

1:49:14>> Sure. If we

1:49:15>> making a decision to not make a decision

1:49:18is a decision.

1:49:18>> Yes.

1:49:19>> Yeah.

1:49:20>> So, it's not as it's not as if we we

1:49:22don't know for certain that removing it

1:49:24from the agenda tonight actually gives

1:49:26us the opportunity to consider this

1:49:29exact scenario at a later date. It might

1:49:31be that this scenario then is no longer

1:49:34on the table and

1:49:37>> we're in danger of affordable housing.

1:49:39>> Yeah. And we're also in not in danger

1:49:42but

1:49:44>> uh there's a consideration about being

1:49:46re good regional partnersh

1:49:49>> right and it there's also a

1:49:50consideration about

1:49:52our Raleigh neighbors using their money

1:49:56>> to fund affordable housing in Kerry. I

1:50:00don't have a problem with that as long

1:50:01as they don't have a problem with that.

1:50:03[laughter]

1:50:04>> And I don't know that there is enough

1:50:06transparency.

1:50:08>> Yeah.

1:50:09>> That I would feel comfortable

1:50:11making that decision. That's how I feel.

1:50:14Don't get me wrong. I I there's a lot of

1:50:16great things. There's a lot of pros

1:50:18about this. There's some considerations

1:50:20and issues but the base the foundation

1:50:23on what what we do from a governance

1:50:26perspective which is to be good regional

1:50:28partners to understand we wouldn't want

1:50:30if the roles were reversed we wouldn't

1:50:33want that.

1:50:33>> Yeah. So that's how

1:50:34>> and I also want to say something u

1:50:36Michelle to your point um that you know

1:50:40my understanding of the conversation

1:50:43from our 3x4 meeting was and Heather you

1:50:47could probably confirm my understanding

1:50:49that just because let's assume that we

1:50:53all vote no for RHA to

1:50:57>> like if we like on Thursday if we voted

1:50:58no

1:50:58>> on Thursday if we were to vote I mean um

1:51:01that property is still um an affordable

1:51:05housing

1:51:07um property.

1:51:08>> It's not

1:51:09>> for sale. Correct.

1:51:11>> For sale.

1:51:11>> Correct.

1:51:11>> But but it is for sale, but it still has

1:51:13that affordable housing component. So,

1:51:15we're not losing that right now. But if

1:51:18that were to be purchased by someone

1:51:20else, then that would be a subject for

1:51:23conversation on how would that change

1:51:25and how would that impact. But if

1:51:27there's also a component of taxes,

1:51:31right? um if the other um

1:51:36builder or agency whatever purchases

1:51:39this uh property like how would the tax

1:51:44be treated? Are we going to

1:51:45>> what other builder or agency are you

1:51:47referring to?

1:51:48>> Like not agency. I mean I'm talking

1:51:49>> Oh, you mean if just somebody else

1:51:51>> like yeah if somebody else like XYZ

1:51:53comes in I was like what did I miss? And

1:51:55if it's a private builder, let's say

1:51:56private builder, then you know you get

1:51:59taxes and right now we don't um with

1:52:01this deal you don't get taxes. So there

1:52:04is pros and cons in both sides. As far

1:52:06as I'm concerned, I'm not ready to make

1:52:08that decision because I don't have all

1:52:10the variables to make that decision and

1:52:13I feel if if I make a rushed call on

1:52:16this um I might regret later on. So

1:52:20that's where I am.

1:52:22>> Yeah. And I I agree. I think it's just

1:52:25the clarity that removing it from the

1:52:27agenda might mean we are making that

1:52:30decision tonight. This there is the

1:52:33possibility then that it does not come

1:52:35back to us as affordable housing. And I

1:52:37I want to share I I agree with every

1:52:39single word you said

1:52:41uh Mayor Prom Bush Lori I did every word

1:52:46and to quote you that and

1:52:50you are you were literally pulling the

1:52:52words out of my head and so for me this

1:52:56is just I'm only speaking for me. I

1:52:58cannot support this motion to remove it

1:53:00from the agenda because we were asked to

1:53:04to make a decision. Um, and I don't feel

1:53:08comfortable making a decision by

1:53:10stepping back and saying, "Uh-uh, I'm

1:53:12I'm not going to vote on this. I don't

1:53:14like ma I don't like stepping away from

1:53:18something and that being that action

1:53:20being a decision." Um, so it and for me

1:53:24it's simply we were asked to make a

1:53:26decision. It is rushed. It's going to be

1:53:29we're going to be bombarded with

1:53:30information in the next 48 hours. That

1:53:33is not an ideal way to come to us and

1:53:35get us to make a thoughtful decision. It

1:53:38could make all of us so uncomfortable.

1:53:40We vote no because we don't feel

1:53:41confident enough to vote yes. But I feel

1:53:45like we were asked to make that decision

1:53:46and

1:53:47>> and it's simply just a you know what, if

1:53:50somebody comes and asks asks me to make

1:53:52a decision, I feel like it's their right

1:53:55to rush me.

1:53:56>> Oh. Wait, we don't always have all the

1:53:58time in the world.

1:53:58>> Do we need a vote on this? Like who is

1:54:00going to support and who is not going to

1:54:02support or are we just going

1:54:03>> This is just whether or not it stays on

1:54:05the agenda to make that decision on

1:54:07Thursday.

1:54:08>> Right. So, are we going to vote on that

1:54:10or No?

1:54:10>> Well, there is there's a motion and a

1:54:12second. So, right now we're in the

1:54:13discussion phase and then we'll take I'm

1:54:16not I I will be totally transparent. I'm

1:54:19totally with you. I would much prefer to

1:54:22make a decision

1:54:24>> in a month.

1:54:25Well, when I had not even no, not even

1:54:28if I had the answers to all of the

1:54:30questions and that and I knew,

1:54:33>> you know, whether or not the Raleigh

1:54:35Council was going to be supportive of

1:54:38using Raleigh dollars and carry if I

1:54:40knew the answer to that, yes. But can we

1:54:43get an answer for that in two days? I'm

1:54:47not sure.

1:54:48>> Yeah. Right. Council member Con Johnson,

1:54:50I I do lean though towards your way of

1:54:53thinking about it that not ideal to have

1:54:5648 hours from tonight or maybe a little

1:54:58bit less in order to answer those

1:55:00questions and to gather all the data,

1:55:03but we could try our best and if we

1:55:06don't get sufficient answers or we get

1:55:08answers that one way or another,

1:55:10>> break by the way, they're not coming

1:55:12back until mid August.

1:55:13>> Yes. Then we

1:55:14>> at city council. So

1:55:15>> we always can vote no. you know, leaving

1:55:17it leaving on the agenda at least gives

1:55:19us an opportunity to have tried our best

1:55:21in the next 48 hours to yes

1:55:24>> answer these questions to our

1:55:25satisfaction and take a vote and if we

1:55:28don't then a no vote is still available

1:55:31to us

1:55:31>> and I understand why my colleagues feel

1:55:33the opposite because that's how I felt

1:55:35earlier and then I was like

1:55:37>> I didn't want to leave this until

1:55:38Thursday and then have someone come and

1:55:42say we didn't know anything about this.

1:55:44>> Yeah.

1:55:44>> Right. And

1:55:46>> thank you. Yeah,

1:55:46>> I wanted us to have this discussion. If

1:55:49we if [snorts] we're up for leaving it

1:55:51on the agenda, I'm fine. But I didn't

1:55:54want the new information that both Bella

1:55:57and I heard.

1:55:58>> Yeah.

1:55:58>> Um to just leave it without being in

1:56:01this new age of um making sure everybody

1:56:04knows everything

1:56:05>> and this is the best way to tell

1:56:08everyone.

1:56:09>> Yeah. Especially transparency is the

1:56:11most important thing we need to do. And

1:56:13I have a question for Heather. If we

1:56:16push that uh uh proposal after

1:56:22July and the RHAs still go ahead to

1:56:26purchase the property, can they come to

1:56:29the council ask for the same proposal?

1:56:33>> I don't know the answer to that, but

1:56:34they have indicated to me that they

1:56:36would likely not move forward with this

1:56:39contract. That doesn't mean they

1:56:40couldn't engage in a new contract if the

1:56:42property is still on the market.

1:56:44>> Um, but I don't think their intent based

1:56:46on what they've indicated to me, their

1:56:47intention is to move forward with your

1:56:49authorization or not move forward with

1:56:51this contract period.

1:56:54>> Um, yeah.

1:56:58>> So, I get any more discussion? Guess

1:57:00we'll call the question. So, uh, all in

1:57:02favor and use your hand of removing it.

1:57:05I think that was my motion to remove it

1:57:08from

1:57:08>> the um July 23rd agenda. Um say yes.

1:57:14Two, three. Okay. Opposed. It's e

1:57:17>> it's even.

1:57:18>> It's even. So

1:57:19>> motion fails.

1:57:20>> Motion fails, right?

1:57:21>> We needed Harold. [laughter]

1:57:25>> Harold's going to watch this.

1:57:26>> And that is why there's an odd number.

1:57:28[laughter]

1:57:28>> Yeah.

1:57:30>> All right. So it stays on the agenda.

1:57:32>> Mhm. And we will

1:57:33>> unless you were to amend the agenda on

1:57:35>> we still could and I would love to share

1:57:38with you that uh chief salt provide the

1:57:40public safety data and he couldn't

1:57:43provide more details because the the

1:57:45timing is so so tight. So I'm um I want

1:57:50to make this decision with confidence

1:57:52but now it seems the timing is too rush

1:57:55for us.

1:57:58>> So that might make you lean a particular

1:58:00way on Thursday. My point with um if we

1:58:02were to learn more information ahead of

1:58:04the meeting that you wish to consider

1:58:06removing it from your agenda,

1:58:08>> we can

1:58:09>> we can amend the agenda.

1:58:11>> I think the way I'm looking at this is

1:58:13not from a perspective what you said

1:58:15because of the information and the time

1:58:18uh tight timeline. I'm not looking I'm

1:58:20not going to be looking at this as from

1:58:23affordable housing

1:58:26um perspective or kind of that we are

1:58:29retaining affordable housing by voting

1:58:31yes on this. I'm going to be looking at

1:58:34it from a very different lens that I

1:58:36don't have enough information to make

1:58:38that decision in such a tight timeline.

1:58:40Mhm.

1:58:43>> All right.

1:58:44>> Michelle Craig,

1:58:46>> while we have you still here,

1:58:49>> have we seen anything like this before?

1:58:52I mean, like some of the questions we've

1:58:53been seeing are, you know, you only gave

1:58:56two weeks notice or whatever. And

1:58:59>> my initial thought was

1:59:01>> council, I mean, staff did what was

1:59:04appropriate.

1:59:06>> We followed all the statutes on notice.

1:59:08Mhm.

1:59:09>> So, um, and again, given the time frame

1:59:11and their request to have it heard

1:59:12before July 27th, this was, you know,

1:59:15really the

1:59:16>> the best we could do,

1:59:17>> but we could revisit this. And in

1:59:19transparency, I'm meeting with the

1:59:20applicant tomorrow.

1:59:22>> I hope

1:59:23>> uh early evening and I think a a council

1:59:25member or two are joining. I I don't

1:59:27have enough information to say now,

1:59:30>> I don't want them, you know, on I don't

1:59:33want this on the agenda on Thursday and

1:59:35here's why.

1:59:37not just to frustrate you as I often do,

1:59:40uh, Lori, but I might change my mind

1:59:42completely tomorrow, you know, and and

1:59:44be the one saying, "Hey, let's amend the

1:59:46agenda." And I I don't know. Uh, but I

1:59:48just wanted to be transparent and say,

1:59:49you know, we are meeting with the

1:59:50applicant. Um, I feel like my due

1:59:53diligence in this situation is not it's

1:59:56not necessarily to go get the hose, hook

1:59:59it up to the fire hydrant and all that,

2:00:01but it is to try to drink from the fire

2:00:04hose when all the information is blasted

2:00:05at me. So, I would if the applicant is

2:00:07listening, I would hope that they work

2:00:10really hard to get us all the

2:00:11information and answer the questions um

2:00:14to the best of their ability that were

2:00:16posed by residents because the neighbors

2:00:20near this community,

2:00:23they've [clears throat] got, you know,

2:00:25questions that I'm sure they've heard

2:00:26before. I don't think probably the the

2:00:29neighbors in Kerry are going to invent

2:00:31new questions for the Rally Housing

2:00:33Authority that other neighbors in other

2:00:36with other developments haven't already

2:00:37asked them, right? So, um maybe a a FAQ,

2:00:42you know, with

2:00:43>> I mean, one of the great things about

2:00:44having this discussion out in the open

2:00:46as well from a transparency perspective

2:00:48is the applicant probably is listening

2:00:50and watching um as I'm sure um our

2:00:54Raleigh friends as well. And so they I

2:00:57think having this conversation makes

2:01:00them realize we care about this

2:01:03relationship enough. We care about the

2:01:06process quite a bit and we want it to be

2:01:08done right.

2:01:09>> And so if things can get done in 48

2:01:12hours, that would be great.

2:01:13>> And we don't want to upset our neighbors

2:01:15either. You you said that well. This is

2:01:18>> right. And it seems like it might be

2:01:20incumbent on the applicant to do some of

2:01:22that uh bridge building, right?

2:01:24>> And come to us with maybe some uh

2:01:27remedies.

2:01:27>> Gives us an opportunity to have this

2:01:29discussion out in the open so that they

2:01:33realize that we are all concerned about

2:01:35this as well. So maybe that might help

2:01:38move things along. So,

2:01:40>> and for the record, I just wanted to say

2:01:41my vote right then was to allow two more

2:01:44days to gather information with I mean

2:01:46there are meeting requests and such and

2:01:49I also want to be a good partner with

2:01:51with Rally.

2:01:52>> Agree. Yes.

2:01:52>> Yes.

2:01:53>> I agree with everybody [laughter]

2:01:55but somehow disagreed with the motion.

2:01:57That's a first.

2:01:59>> All right. Well, I think that's it.

2:02:00Anything else from staff? All right.

2:02:02Well, then this meeting's adjourned.

2:02:04Thank you.