2026-08-12 - Planning Board Meeting

0:07being 6:30, I'm going to open up the August 12th um child and planning board meeting.

0:13Um first on the agenda is our ANRS. Um I we

0:24have one for um Smith Road um you want to do?

0:33Yeah, we we we reviewed this everything, you know, conforms to zoning. Building commissioner signed off on it. No, no issues on our end.

0:43And this is your this is your Yes. Correct.

0:45And you just just another I'm com mining two lots. I was going to build a single family home and a large like a barn garage.

0:59Which two blocks again you can combine? Yes. Three.

1:02Can you just you want to just Yeah.

1:04You can just So it's lot three and four.

1:08So this is the lot behind that. Yes. Correct.

1:12Y and then Yeah. The right the house [clears throat] is going to go right over there.

1:16So three and four to create to create. Yes. 23 acres. Correct. Yeah.

1:24It's still a reduced frontage.

1:27It's already has a variance. It's reduced. Yes.

1:34Cuz originally those two lots are two separate buildables and I'm just combining them. That's 123 ft total.

1:42Yeah. So it is a reduced lot.

1:46These two lots here are reduced. Yes, [clears throat] correct. Does that does that change anything?

1:53If anything, it makes it more right.

2:02Make a motion to accept the for property.

2:06Second. All in favor? I need the signatures.

2:22Jame, we have four copies. So, you can have one back. Correct. One for us, one for the clerk.

2:28There's four copies. We should walk.

2:34We just have to sign one paper.

2:40place in there. Exercise.

3:06So, three cups. How many do you need sign?

3:13Just one paper and then the stamp.

3:54Is there anybody for the um quadridge channel?

4:00So, we'll just table that and come down to that. Yep.

4:03Um Take them with you.

4:08Yes, the myar. And take the myar and one paper. No, just the myar.

4:33Thank you everybody. They do not know. It'll come.

4:36So, yeah, we made it. Okay. We do.

4:45still supposed to say you were supposed to say I or you

4:54um we have um the uh child and housing production plan

5:02draft that we're supposed um and so we are supposed to accept it we do accept it and and join the um select board I

5:11guess that's the process right to make it official document. Um, so I'll just start with that. I did

5:21review this thing and kind of like nine pages of notes. Um, and and of course I'm reviewing it from the view of master

5:29plan and so that's why I think I have so many issues because what the plan actually says doesn't make a lot of

5:36sense what the master plan does. Um, so since the master plane is getting redone

5:44now, this does seems like it's being put in the right place. So, so we have and so we have to do so um

5:53[clears throat]

5:54the the true reason for this is we can't apply for a lot of grants if we don't at least have one done. So, we don't qualify for a lot because we don't have

6:01enough low-inccome properties and and um some of the other uh you know stats that the state's looking for to give us

6:08money, but um having one does allow us to apply for grants. So, obviously we we we want to have a solid plan. Um and it

6:17is kind of a cookie cutter template sort of fill in the blanks.

6:20Um I have a lot of I I have a lot of comment about like the sur people that took the survey. such a small tiny bit of population focused on the very best survey.

6:29So it was but um but um you don't need to know all of my opinions yet. I will share them by email to everybody.

6:37This is the final copy.

6:40This is the draft. So the draft that's submitted. So um I [clears throat] don't honestly even know who was on the committee. I don't think anybody on the

6:48plane was on the committee, right? I mean I would have you would have known.

6:51So, um, okay.

6:54But, so what is I mean, is there anybody in the public here to We're here to talk about it. [laughter]

7:02And that's why so that's why so we're going to open it up. We're not going to vote or anything. We just wanted to kind of introduce it and and um and talk

7:10about what's in it um and whether what we want to support in it and stuff like that. So, uh yeah, absolutely. Why don't you guys We'll open it up to the public.

7:22We're We're actually from Central Mass Regional Planning Commission.

7:24So, you were on the committee that put this together or you We're the consultant. Consultants, right?

7:29Is it okay if we come up here? It's better to be seen. Oh, no. Please.

7:38Um I'm sorry.

7:40Question here. um is I mean one of the main reasons to have this I mean would be to produce affordable housing

7:47obviously but is to prevent affordable housing units 40 units being imposed

7:54upon us that we don't have a lot of say in yeah that's one of the um useful tools of having an active housing production

8:03plan um they're five-year plans that are um approved by the state um and if you have one that um has been approved by

8:11the state in the last 5 years. And the town is able to produce a half percent of its uh year-round housing stock as

8:19affordable units. Um so for uh Charlton based on the most recent census, that would be 26 affordable units. If you

8:27were to produce that in a year, you could um uh be able to not issue uh comprehensive permits to developers that

8:35are seeking those to develop more densely in single family zoned areas. So that is one of the benefits. Um another is just to have an active plan in place.

8:43I mean we did reach out to the community. We held a few workshops. Um we put out the survey as well. Um there was a lot of representation on the

8:51committee which we had monthly um committee meetings since October 2025 um from the senior center. I mean there was I think we did try to reach out to

8:59members of other boards but um I didn't even didn't even um see it invite. I mean that's not your pro I mean just because we have a little

9:08communication issue in this in our town hall. So um the former planner was also um involved at the onsite or something as well.

9:17I I have another question. Um I saw a survey at the senior center that seemed to be produced by a committee of residents. Didn't look it

9:25didn't have the stamp of of any of your involvement. I think this was at least a year ago. So would you had when would

9:33the surve I If I saw your survey, where was it? Where was it?

9:38It was on the town website um for a while. It was um posted on I think any like social media pages. There were flyers that were hung up at um uh in

9:48town hall and I think the post office and a few other locations. It was in the senior center um as well. So this was

9:55during I think um late fall of 2025 is when it was open. So, do you think it was October?

10:03That might have been a different survey because this was October 2025 to December 2025.

10:08That might have been for the potential senior. It could have potentially be for the senior um community center. I mean,

10:17the senior center um maybe maybe I think it might have been something that they did before they engaged CNP.

10:27There was also a route to corridor study. Um, we kicked it off in October, so it's been a little less

10:37sure. Yeah. Um, do you want me to talk any more about it? Like kind of go through it or just answer questions?

10:42Um, I don't know. How do we want to do the the format? Do you want to do a brief presentation? Yeah, I can just kind of go through it.

10:48Um, yeah. So, like I said, this kicked off in October 2025. We had a steering committee. Um, I'll introduce myself also. I'm Emily Glovis from the Central

10:56Massachusetts Regional Planning Commission. I'm the um manager of housing programs and joined with Emily TBO. So Emily G and Emily T. Um we uh uh

11:05met with the committee kind of guided the process provided any kind of technical expertise through this. Um and

11:12then we were joined by Andrew Goolas of course and um and the former planner as well. Um so that was kind of the representation from the town and we had

11:21um I think there was five members on the steering committee um all of which are kind of um members of the um senior

11:28center. Um and yeah just want to also shout out thank them for their participation and thank everyone who took the survey and joined the

11:36workshops. Um I would like honestly I would have taken if I and I am I'm on the planning board so it's funny that I didn't I didn't even know about the survey. I didn't

11:43even see it on like social media or anything. It's It's not It's I mean sometimes

11:51I I agree. I I didn't see that. I didn't go the process was even going on until I saw that the draft copy. It's probably

11:59less than half survey and and I had a lot of data crunching. There's just a lot of facts.

12:05There's a lot of data [clears throat] in the plan. Yeah. It's about 30 pages of just the most up-to-date census data and then a community survey, any local data

12:13that we could collect. Um, so that's kind of the first like twothirds of the plan is a lot of of the data crunching and everything. Um, what

12:21is here? What are there any gaps? Um, and then we go into discussing the um kind of like barriers to housing production, if there's any kind of

12:30environmental things, um regulatory barriers, things like that um that came up. Um, and then the last part is the

12:38recommendations as well. Um, so you know, I only brought one copy of the survey results. I'm sorry. I should have

12:46brought more, but if you want to pass it around, I think you probably have Okay, if you have them, just if you're curious.

12:54Um, let's see. Um a lot of the issues that were raised were around uh senior housing um and affordability

13:02particularly for um folks who um have retired or living on fixed incomes. Um and not only of the affordability aspect but also the physical constraints of

13:11larger single family homes on kind of larger lots. Um kind of folks who have uh built connections here, raised families um and their children are now

13:20adults and have moved out and feeling as if these homes are too big for them to live in. So wanting of course to remain

13:27in this um community but having limited options for something that's more affordable, easier to take care of. Um

13:35so uh a lot of the discussions were around kind of options for that moving forward. Um one of the things that came up was like cottage housing communities,

13:43smaller homes. You still get that independent single family home. um you can have guests over and everything, but it's more in a a a

13:51slightly denser community circled around a um perhaps like a garden area or shared kind of sidewalks, things like

13:58that. Um we talked about accessory dwelling units as an option. Um having more uh flexibility and um kind of clear

14:06direction around how to um create an ADU. Um we talked about home sharing as a potential option. There are existing

14:16home sharing organizations out there that um will help kind of um vet uh different households to partner them

14:23with perhaps a a younger maybe a college student who's looking for a rental option or even um an exchange of kind of

14:31services around the house, helping out um older residents um with household tasks. Um so there were a lot of kind of

14:38creative discussions around there. Um and a lot of that is outlined in the in the recommendation section.

14:46Um yeah, we talked about kind of mixed use options kind of um locating future

14:53housing with um you know a potential um you know future a grocery store would come up a lot. the need for kind of that

15:01or or shopping options or health care and making sure that those kind of services and amenities are near housing especially for older folks um who might

15:10not necessarily have access to a car. Um see um and then just to talk a little bit

15:18about the uh existing affordable housing stock in regards to chapter 40b. Um so

15:27um under this law, every community in Massachusetts has to reserve 10% of its housing stock um as deed restricted

15:34affordable units um for households earning 80% or less of the area median income. Currently Charlton is at 1.74%.

15:43So you're not at that 10% threshold. Um it has 89 units of deed restricted affordable housing where you need uh 511

15:52total affordable units to comply with this. Um so while the town is not alone in this, there are plenty of communities out there who have not met this

16:00threshold. Um it does leave the town vulnerable to the comprehensive permits like I was talking about a little bit earlier. Um so that's something that's

16:08outlined in the plan as well. Um um and then I will say that the

16:17recommendation section we broke it into kind of four different um subsections.

16:22So the first is funding and capacity building. Um there's leveraging financial resources as well as like technical assistance and professional

16:30and community support resources. Um an example of a recommendation is to pursue adoption of a municipal affordable

16:37housing trust fund. Um uh the second um kind of group of recommendations is zoning and policy

16:44changes. Um so since regulatory barriers can end up preventing um really much needed housing types. Um there were um

16:53recommendations for changing zoning or implementing policies um to help facilitate the the construction of certain types of housing. Um like I said

17:00that that um are called for. Um so yeah, for an example, pursue uh zoning changes to allow cluster developments of small

17:08homes such as cottage housing communities or tiny housing communities.

17:11Um uh another one in there was uh to pursue zoning tools including chapter 40r 40s

17:20um that incentivize and direct housing growth to well suited areas. So, these are um a couple and it's described in the plan in more detail, but a couple of

17:28um state uh zoning kind of programs that um the town could could look into to incentivize um starter homes and um affordable housing.

17:38Um the third group is housing planning and development strategies. So, these are ways that the town can provide support for projects. Um you know,

17:46recognizing that like the town is not the one creating the housing, it's it's uh the on the private and public side.

17:52Um so but to to support that by removing certain challenges and barriers to creating housing through partnerships, advocacy um and just like taking the

18:01necessary steps on the town side that it can to prepare for new development. So for example um one of the recommendations is to create an

18:09inventory of sites that demonstrate suitability for or affordable housing development. Um and then in the plan u

18:16there is a map kind of towards the end I think on page 67 that um these are the areas that just as a starting point were discussed as areas that would be

18:24appropriate um for future housing whether um there's land that's available um the owners are trying to sell it or

18:31it's near um kind of major corridors um um or other services and amenities. And

18:40then the just the final um section of strategies is the housing preservation strategies. So just making sure that any existing affordable housing is preserved

18:48so the town doesn't lose those important units um from what is called the subsidized housing inventory or the SHI.

18:54Um and just exploring ways that residents uh that the town can support residents and local housing organizations um as well as restoring any vacant or abandoned properties.

19:05So, um, yeah, I think that's that's kind of my quick summary. Um, but I'm happy to answer questions and like clarify

19:13anything about the process at all. And I know you're not going to vote on it tonight, but that is like the ultimate goal [clears throat] is to um adopt the

19:21plan by this board and then we'll bring it to the select board for their um vote of adoption and then we can submit it to the state for a five-year approval.

19:30I one of my big issues is throughout like within um the um sort of like the

19:40suggestions or the strategies like it it's like um it says for example

19:47um the photogen and it says pursue adoption and the idea

19:54um like I would be happy to say like um look into or research the process

20:02because I'm I'm like, "Wow, we can financially almost all of our money goes to the school district, right?" So, we're we're we're living in this this

20:11tight budget and some of the suggestions were, you know, take some of your your fees and even your f and and and have

20:18the town start funding a trust to help build these. How that's we're I mean, right now we're wondering, you know, can

20:25we afford the the to fix the school that's, you know, that's falling down right now, right? So, like we're so um

20:34the like pursue adoption, it just seems like it's we're jumping way ahead. It's more that just a terminology um to to

20:43research or consider or you know to to [clears throat] have a committee and and we love committees and this you know a

20:51committee you know look into the possibility it just and a lot of the terminology was like that let's pursue it without like um

21:00more versus again research the possibility um I don't maybe this is just the standard wording um and maybe that pursue means means um we're going

21:09to we're going to see if it's actually a possibility before. But again, throughout that, I find that that like

21:16yes, we're going to do that. Like we'll write the master plan like we read it and like that's something we're going to

21:22do again. Um you know, I'm that way. I mean a lot and that

21:31yeah definitely don't want to like set the tone up for failure or anything. Does that make sense?

21:36again because I I can't see us I mean I guess everybody can throw in five bucks and we can start a trust but you know you need to have a a real funding source

21:45if you're going to and but I I just can't see that happening when I look at our what our potential revenue is and our

21:52you can bring a a tax increase to the town right we can give everybody we could raise you know I think we talked about preservation

22:00before it down there Is it an appetite for that?

22:06Um, we're going to adopt the Community Preservation Act. All right, everybody in town, we're going to raise everybody's taxes 2%. Like, we're going to support our like they're going to be

22:14like at the town meeting, they're going to destroy us. Like, they're going to play. So, that's it's I there's just no way that's ever going to happen. So,

22:22pursue the um the uh community preservation act. No way. Maybe we support a study. Um, so it's a work.

22:32It would be interesting to bring that in front of the county. We would be they might actually boo us. The select board has to do that.

22:40Right. So that's what I'm just again that that terminology. I think that really needs to be tweaked in this. Um I I would feel uncomfortable voting saying, "Yeah, I'm I'm Let's go vote.

22:50Let's let's pursue." I just don't think that that's um the way it is. Um but I will again I

22:58have nine pages of notes so we won't go through my notes. I will I will email them um to um Jane and she can uh share

23:05with the board and then we can discuss if I'm being a little crazy with some of my comments.

23:11Um and does the board want to speak or do you want to open it up to the public

23:18for comments or how do you want to I just had a question to chair. So, thank you. There's a ton of research put into

23:26this. I appreciate all the development work that you guys did and you must have excellent databases to get all this stuff. So, uh and thank you for making

23:34it actionable. So, you you closed with the whole like this is what we should do and that's important. That's how we make

23:41progress in the 5,000 some odd units that we counted. Uh these are the housing units in Charlton.

23:505,000. Okay. Right. 5,000. Did Did that include the overlook?

24:00Oh, that's a good question because some of the overlook units are not are people living there full time or are they just there for a short time for

24:08recovery? That is okay. So, those would be included. Yes. Because it's yearround, but they don't own them. I mean they

24:17Yeah, I guess they would be considered rentals. Yeah, they're kind of rentals. Yeah. So, I don't know what your rules are.

24:25It is. But yeah, but they don't owe a a deed to the thing. They they pay [clears throat] in, pay rent, and then

24:34they get some of that back to their estate when they That's a good question. I will definitely verify that. I assume that those are included, but that brings up a

24:42good question of like for example like college housing like is that included in I don't cuz it's these are year round college

24:51but similar I feel I don't how vulnerable are we at any

24:56given moment to be to having a comprehensive permit

25:04at any time a developer could come we just have to and it actually kind of because maybe that maybe since we had no [clears throat] water or no sewer, they would actually build that for our town.

25:15So, it's a very positive that's that's one of the problems with Oh, that's one of the issues with sewer and water connections.

25:23I mean, we I don't even think there is enough. We have no capacity for sewer.

25:27They actually have to build their own sewer system, build their own sewer, build their own.

25:31I mean, I guess I mean I guess for which is feasible some of these developments. So, they they do do that.

25:37So, there may be some appetite then for not preventing what you have to say.

25:44No, I'm I'm I'm just [clears throat] to be unbiased in in saying like the

25:51potential. I just I um I just don't see the ability to ever build um a a project

25:59with that a unit big enough to actually change our percentage that would so we so here's an so we have a lot of

26:08um and another like saying we have a lot of we have commercial and industrial properties and any place where one of those kind of facilities would go would

26:16would really be in one of our commercial or um industrial zoned areas So what we would have to do is we would have to say

26:23we don't really want any tax revenue from from businesses [clears throat] to come in and create you know because that's really where

26:31they would only fit. That's where the water is available. So we would have to say yes we're going to sacrifice the tax revenue that we would get from a business coming in and paying us taxes

26:40and helping us fund it down by and we could build one of those. We could we could build you know a large apartment complex. Um but we would it would be the

26:49change of zoning and we would be sacrificing potential tax revenue to do so. So it's a balance we want to bring in um say

26:57[clears throat]

26:58the low low-inccome housing but do we do we sacrifice potential revenue that we need because

27:06well in some cases that's the appropriate spot for the low housing because it's [clears throat] near that's exactly true.

27:12And if you really look at this and we scrutinize our and I'm sure you guys did kind of scrutinize our our our zoning and our mapping where actual, you know,

27:21tax revenue would would be we would have to to give up that tax revenue and say we want to bring in a

27:30board. It's really our only again as much as land is that's the the only place that would support something like

27:36that. So with again all these um I I I would I I've been on this one for a long

27:44time and I've never really worried about anybody bringing in like anybody fix I never thought about anybody fixing the

27:50issue we have. I I I'll be in a situation where a lot of us are in the situation where we're going to want to sell our houses and get into something

27:58smaller. I mean we don't have that. It's a huge issue. We don't um have that available in our town. I know many many

28:06many senior citizens that are land rich or house rich and and they have rights for low income. There is no place for

28:13them to go. So that's an issue. However, we can't resolve that issue by giving up

28:20potential revenue tax money from our businesses that would come in and use that area. This one of those things that the town has to go on and consider.

28:31If I may, Madam Chair, just one of the things to consider with uh the the 40B

28:38process is if we adopt this uh this just gives us what's called safe harbor, which means you can [clears throat] deny a 40B. So all these considerations with

28:46no balance in land use, things like that. If somebody comes in with a gigantic project that completely waves all zoning requirements and it provides

28:5615% affordable housing, if the town doesn't think it's a good idea, people are opposed to it, there's really

29:04nothing the town can do. It kind of ends up like the LG situation, it's happening, appeal it all you want, the housing appeals committee is going to

29:10say, "Too bad, you can't deal with it." And if you are at that 10% affordability or in our case, we've adopted this and

29:18we have that safe harbor. What that allows is you can still say yes to these things. And in fact, there's kind of two

29:25types of 40bs. There's friendly 40bs and hostile 40bs where sometimes a 40B is just a great way to get a lot of housing

29:32offline. Um you can even have it sometimes where it's 100% of the units will be affordable and there'll be different variations of affordability

29:40from you know 80% 50% 30% whatever it is. It just now gives the town the ability to say no where right now if

29:48somebody comes in with a 40B they're basically saying this is what we're doing and we're going to do it. That

29:54being said because of the sewer issues it I I think we're we're not a prime target for them. They

30:02need to they need to bring bring in water to bring in [clears throat] and it said we're zero capacity of the sewer. So they would have to actually build their own sewer plant. There's not

30:11a septic system big enough to to satisfy uh you know something that big. But worth noting is the state generally

30:19doesn't consider you can deny in you know very very narrow set of circumstances and the state generally

30:27hasn't considered lack of sewer capacity or lack of water capacity to be um a reason for denial and that has

30:34overturned uh but they'd have to build it though they and then is it then the responsibility of the developer to to do it or

30:43unclear I I haven't been in uh haven't seen seen those situations, those results, but I know if that was denial, who does that fall on to deal with that?

30:51Well, well, they're not going to have the talent.

30:53It is the builder's responsibility to do that, but there are systems that they can build for multi that that are I'm not going to say they're cheap, but they're possible.

31:05All right. Do we want to table this till next week maybe and give uh another opportunity?

31:10Yeah, we have a lot. I mean, I

31:12[clears throat]

31:12honestly I just there's just some tweaking of the words that I would get pursued to, you know, research or or or

31:20consider. Um I there's there's other questions, but what what um maybe this board we can put together a basic list of questions.

31:32Would that make sense? And then we can send them over.

31:36Um we're not hostile to anything. We just know that kind of we we've been doing this for a long time and it's very

31:42hard. Um I said we we truly um I can say my own mother-in-law was looking we're looking for some place for her to stay cuz she was so lovely to have in our

31:51house but she really um and there's just no options locally and what we do have. It's not like we we

31:58our our locals can use it because it's it's a priority from the state. So we're really in a in a bad position with our

32:06fellow citizens. question. Just a couple questions. [clears throat] Um those projects uh at the Shbury

32:13Wester line right at the market to where they put those condos up and there is any of that project

32:22part of like an 8020 plan or is it all market?

32:26I'm not sure. Um I'm not sure. Okay. Well, let me get the more simple one. in Auburn right behind

32:33Sheldon's up on the hill there's at least 200 units that were just built in the last 18 months. Do you know about those?

32:40Yeah. Was that the redevelopment of the Mary? There was like an old school that they redeveloped and added that Mary school up at center.

32:50I'm talking about right at the Oxford Oxford line. Okay. I'm not familiar with that. You're not familiar with it? No.

32:57U go on Google Earth. I mean take a ride up there. It's incredible. Each build building, I think, is 36 units, three

33:05stories tall. There's got to be 15 to 18 of them. You don't know anything about that?

33:12Okay. Well, okay. If I'm just curious, if it was an 8020 deal, you mean like 80?

33:19Well, if you want to build a project and you're looking for special financing, you got to put in a town request, you got to put in a percentage of uh of affordable new units. That's for 40B.

33:31No, not 40 bill. No, just just a some there are plans out there that that this is what it calls for.

33:39Uh our own town of childhood uh 55 and o [clears throat] over you have to do 10%.

33:46If it's in the bylaws, it is in the bylaw. And our former uh

33:51[clears throat]

33:52uh director Alan Gordon, I don't know if you had a chance, did you read our 40B bylaw.

34:02He's got a hurdle in there. I know there's a couple of them that started in Charleston. They had to stop because at point in time you got to come up with a

34:11percentage of cash, tens of thousands of dollars to continue. And that's usually the stopper because a lot of times you

34:20don't get the bill builder. You get you get the permit uh advocate who puts permits together. Then he takes the

34:28package and tries to sell it. What Allan did was you want to put the permits together. You're going to come up with

34:34this sizable amount of cash. Did you read that in there? You didn't see it.

34:40I'm not sure. I'll have to check again. We already have we already have roadblocks in there as far as 40D go. They may say, "I want to

34:48do a 40B." Well, go ahead. Oh, yeah. By the way, you're going to have to come up with with with with a third of your project cost as a deposit.

34:57I mean, talk about flying away, you know, they're gone. That's what that's what usually turns.

35:07Yeah. Again, so we We do need senior housing and and I don't think anybody's denying that, but

35:14I I just I just um I can't even imagine this community or our school districts being able to deal deal with basic like

35:23family housing. We can deal with it. We One other point is the town of Climouth,

35:29the largest land mass in the state, they've got seven manufactured homes developed uh parks there. There's got to

35:39be 5 to 800 manufactured homes. And why isn't the state advocate advocating those

35:46very re reasonable? Oh yeah, they only pay $12 uh uh fee. There's there's no real estate tax on it because it's chatt mortgage.

36:03Very good. I said enough. So, no, we're we're trying to develop and we we have the the comprehensive housing plan and we're trying to we have to vote to um

36:12support it or not. And so, we I just want to make sure that if they're voting to support it that it it has a lot of

36:20it's has a lot of common sense to what to what child needs. So, that's the issue

36:27with with the stretch code. Nothing supported.

36:32Sorry. Take a T. Look, look at it. A lot of communities are finally waking up and saying, you know, start a homes in this town of 550.

36:42Start a home. Crazy.

36:45So, again, we have this like if but how do we really do something if there's so many roadblocks, but it would have been

36:52interesting to be on this this um maybe um let us we all I'm sure we all have comments. I'm not sure if everybody read

37:00this entire thing. um let us um digest it, get organize some questions and some comments and I don't know it's still

37:08draft form but so again if like I feel so much more comfortable supporting this if we were again we just tweaked the

37:16words um pursue to research and I'm not sure if that hurts us when it gets when it goes to a state to get approved

37:24because um I I you know if there were new ideas to fund the trust that's great I I um I'm not here saying we don't want

37:33low-inccome housing. We do. I see. I I I I know people in the community um that

37:41that really need they're in a situation where they could really, you know, um need it um use it and to be able to

37:49remain here a lot. So, lots of grandparents, right? So, um I just want to make sure that the board is comfortable with it before. Um

37:58so, we'll do that. Do I have any other comments from the um audience that I that so we'll continue this public hearing?

38:06Well, it's on a public hearing. So, it's just discuss any votes or public meeting.

38:10It's a public meeting. So, um do we do we need to vote to continue it or No, just

38:17you just have it on the agenda for when next.

38:20Yeah, let's put it on the agenda for the next meeting. Second. Yeah. All in favor.

38:28So if everybody [clears throat] will just send anybody from the public or anybody that's listening send the um send your comments if you want a copy of

38:36the plan. You can reach out. You know it can be emailed um to anybody that's listening.

38:43Do you have this electronic? Who has this?

38:46I have it electronic and I'll go ahead and post it on the planning board web page just review it.

38:52What is the time frame that we're looking to submit and approve? Is there um you guys have it? It's really whenever you're comfortable.

38:58There's not a strict All right. Perfect. Thank you so much.

39:03Thank you both.

39:04We we we we need this uh um in any negative comments that I made. I again we have bad communication sometimes in

39:12this town hall and I I'm just surprised that um I sit on this board and I didn't even know that this was all happening. Um surprising.

39:20I find that surprising also.

39:22So yeah, but again not not on you. It's on on us for not communicating with all.

39:28Um, thank you so much for presenting for your comments. We will email you with appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

39:39square

39:54land management LLC from Griffin Road.

39:58Um I think there's just a bill change request for this and uh I'll just note I have for all of

40:05you there's report um myself and Mike Andre site they're doing um

40:14everything looks good we've got the updated plans everything looks good on our end oh you are the only comment that I want to point

40:22out here is uh plan board may accept modifications of field change on the condition of the updated firetruck sweep path analysis be

40:30provided and demonstrates the required emergency vehicle access is maintained and I think that's a reasonable condition and I'm asking for that to be

40:39waved because that's a whole project in itself. [clears throat] Okay. I spoke with the chief. Uh we're not restricting

40:47the flow in any way. We have an opening there between the two existing buildings if they were built as on plan of 30 ft.

40:55moving the building and combining it still will leave 30 feet state of mass I believe it's a 20 foot width so we're

41:02still going to have our 10 foot of expansion you know what I mean it's already there so there's no change

41:11um I respect that Mike Andre put that on there but it's not something that my engineer can just simply put in a program it's something that you have to

41:19sub out and it's a and it's an extra fee and there's no purpose for it So I did, you know, speak to the chief uh prior to

41:27the meeting and said, "Chief, we still are going to maintain a 30 foot because that's what we have between the buildings. So whether I take, you know,

41:35these two things and and I and I got 30 ft here and I move it here, I'm still going to have 30 ft here." Now that's it. You know what I'm saying?

41:42But you're going to still have access to both.

41:45Oh, the buildings are getting merged. I I I guess I I don't know what the the field change is, but then so that's it's

41:53[cough]

41:54believe I believe I sent that out. It's just showing the I can go ahead and print a copy if you need one.

41:59I can draw it right here for you if you like. Okay, so basically we got an existing building. Okay, that's uh 20 ft wide.

42:07We got 30 ft. Okay. Yep. 30 ft. And then we got a 10ft building.

42:12Okay, that's 10 ft. I'm moving this 10ft building right here. Okay. And now from

42:19the back of this building to the front of this building will still give me 30 ft. The only reason I'm doing is just to pull it away from a ledge front that's right there.

42:29That's all. Nothing changes. So this building becomes 30 ft wide. Okay. By the width. This building goes away and

42:37the driveway just moves over to where this existing building was and still 30 ft. Okay.

42:43So there there's no change. You know what I mean?

42:46It's just the the ledge is is vertical right there. I'm pulling it away.

42:50So that becomes one building instead of one building instead of having two a 10 a 20 by whatever the length is and a 10 by whatever the length is, it becomes a 30 by the length like 249 or something.

43:01Is this the property line?

43:03No, the property line's way. So yeah, that doesn't affect anything. It's up the ledge. There's already the chain link fence is in place for the building.

43:11Everything's there. So the curb is going to be here. Okay. Instead of here and here for the fire trucks. That's it.

43:18So it's it's just putting the taking this building, sliding it together, and we're going to still have 30 ft.

43:25And there's more than one building up there, though. Is it?

43:27There's there's 11 buildings, and there'll be nine now.

43:30Okay. Okay. So, it's just one building that's changing. Two two of these exact same buildings.

43:35So, when you drive up here, you're just going to come down this roadway instead of coming down between them. So it actually gives more room because we do

43:43have a trench uh drainage rail right here.

43:47So it makes it nicer with the sweep around. No, that's 25 ft radius and we have plenty of this building has moved this direction.

43:57Did you get that for me? Excuse me. Did you get the measurement?

44:00This was a separate building is now measurement of [clears throat] no from the uh southboard to the

44:08Oh, I didn't. What was that? You said for a um the link for the selfbridgeidge to the far end.

44:14I will get that. All right. I'll the survey is away until this coming Monday.

44:18I'll have them survey and get it overbridgeidge to the very end. Yep.

44:21Just so I know for the for the poll in the host. I will get that. I apologize.

44:33Do you see it on there? It's a little confusing sometimes on there. Would you like me to I I can see it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

44:40And none of the parking's moving.

44:43Nothing. Just those two buildings cuz it will leave me more access to clean that that water swaleway between the burns.

44:53It's just we have no problem. It's just that we can just drive straight up. Okay. Okay.

44:59Yeah. As long as the fire chief doesn't have an issue with that component of that then is building. We met on it. The

45:07only thing I asked him has nothing to do with the movement, but I was just curious.

45:10So, it's just a make. All we're doing is just starting. So, this roadway squeeze in between these two buildings is just going to go around the outside. And he

45:19was just Well, no. Just the ledge face was so high. I didn't want it that close to the back of the building.

45:30You want to see? Okay.

45:34We're just asking They're just asking to instead of the submitting a claim that this is just a continuity as a field

45:42change and Mike recommends that we do as long as our um as long as fire is is

45:49happening. So, um I'm sorry.

45:56How do you get to the middle unit step? You don't it it's only still two doors.

46:02So the unit becomes instead of a 20 foot wide unit with two doors on each side, it becomes 30 ft wide with two doors. So just a bigger unit.

46:10Yeah, cuz the interior wall moves. So you could make that a 10 by by 10x 10 and then a 10 by 20 or you could leave

46:18it all open and have a 10x30. So that middle wall is like that petition right there for the for the room. You you divide up what you want.

46:27So you you reduce the number of units, but you made something bigger. Yes. Exactly.

46:32Yeah. Overall, middle units. No. No male units. No. No. No. Sorry. No. That's good.

46:40So, um, do we have a motion to accept this as I'll make a motion to accept the forage

46:49road uh as a field change field change number two.

46:54with the condition that he provides the measurements um to the chief the for the distance that's

47:01I think that's a distance just for the uh hose and I'll do that um second

47:09all in favor I beautiful thank you

47:19thank you chief I appreciate it no

47:31So we have audience um Nick Sarah is next on the um agenda that they have requested to move it to their meeting of September 16th, 2026.

47:42Um do we need a vote for the uh you don't have to take a motion unless it's just a public meeting.

47:49All right, we have the um Vansky [clears throat] um site plan application for 123 M road and that's the new one.

48:03So, uh in accordance with section 27.1 and 27.2, two, the child and zoning bylaw.

48:12The child and zoning board will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, August 12th, um 6:30 in the planning board

48:20office in New York City Mcken Street building on Main Street um on the application of Robert Lemansky, 157

48:27Sunset Drive, Child Mass for site plan approval to construct the 7,254 square foot commercial building. The

48:34property is located at 123 Whistler Road, child and gas access 26 block, parcel 16 in the zone community business.

48:46Madam Chair, Kevin Quinn is engineering or the representing the owner and applicant. Rob Lemansky is the applicant. He's with me tonight. He promises he's going to say nothing.

48:58We'll see how that goes. We'll see how that goes.

49:02I'm not sure I believe it. This could be a problem.

49:07So, we have an application for site plan review in front of the board. The plan calls for 7,500 foot building with the site improvements. Um, the parking area for the site has 40 parking spaces.

49:17That's um over the um zoning requirements, 30 would be required. Um Rob has a prospective tenant who feels

49:25that he needs more parking. We like that from a site design standpoint. gives us a good sense that we have a client that knows what they need and we can

49:32accommodate those needs. Um, we have a storm water system designed in compliance with the storm water u management handbook. Um, and I know

49:41Graves has had some comments on that um, which I'll come back to in a minute. Um, we did get comments from Graves Engineering. We responded August 5th. I

49:50guess Mike's away on vacation has been away on vacation. So, I didn't hear back from him. I don't know the board has but um, he we expect to have back hear back

49:58from him. So, I I don't know if the board I don't think the board would want to make a decision in the absence of your engineer waiting for that. Um, a couple things came along that I just

50:06want to take a minute to mention. Um, Mike asked if we would produce a uh a phototric plan, lighting intensity plan.

50:14Um, we do those sometimes. Um, in this case, we're in a commercial district.

50:20We're surrounded by um nonresidential properties and we have bought 20. Um the bylaw says we have to provide you the

50:28lighting plan, but it doesn't say an intensity plan for a metric plan. So if it's suitable to the board, we would ask that you set that aside, but I would

50:36look to the board to give us direction on that.

50:39Um [clears throat] addition, yes, I would only be concerned about the excessive light spilling out on Route 20 and causing traffic issues. That's

50:47I think that would help Route 20, but that would be It depends on how the It depends on which direction. Yeah. Yeah. So, um I

50:56think that's one reason that we would request it. I don't know. We can we can discuss that, but like I said, um there's also they've noted that the

51:06driveway is not compliant with the separation from two drives. The drive is supposed to be separated by 50 ft. Okay.

51:13The driveway that we proposed is actually reflecting the existing driveway. It was installed by Mass DOT when they reconstructed in 20. the curb cut and driveway were put in by DOT.

51:24We're just extending that driveway. So, we would ask the board consider waving that requirement for that separation. It

51:31would be disruptive to our plan. In any case, um I can show you that this is the uh the proposed drive which as I say is

51:40just an extension of the existing driveway and curb cut and the one next door is is less than 50 ft. If we have

51:47to push this driveway over, it's pretty disruptive to our plan. We could probably make it work, but the plan would work best as we've laid out. And

51:56we laid it out based on the existing physical driveway that was installed where the curb cut is for that property.

52:03No, I'm sorry. Yes. Right. Yeah. Actually, they they put in the curb cut and they even put in a an apron and a little bit of a driveway.

52:10Now, doesn't that other driveway isn't there a water tank up there?

52:13That's that's next to us. Yeah, that's right. The water tank directly behind this.

52:17That's why the way the cottonwood's done.

52:19No, no, no. That just I got to share. So that cuts right there. Okay.

52:25Which is right next to where God wanted your cut to be. Right.

52:30They Sorry.

52:31That's Mass Highway already wanted they that's where Mass Highway.

52:40So even if we if we allow and if we wanted to move it, they might not let you move it anyways. Well, life would be more complicated.

52:48Say that. Um we'd have to dismantle some of it and reconstruct it. And it would be, as I say, we kind of built the plan

52:54around that curb cut. Um it would be disruptive to our plan to to relocate it. I think um from a a functionality

53:02standpoint and certainly um I think the board could certainly uh speak to the neighbor next door who happens to be sitting to to my left um who owns this driveway complaint.

53:13Yeah. Um we the board can consider it and we take control. What's his shaded?

53:20That's that's the the property next door. That's his pavement.

53:24[clears throat]

53:25The gray. Yeah. Green is is green space, right?

53:28But this property does I have to Kevin.

53:33Sorry. Um the the driveway part if you go back in history Mr. Tberry the

53:40original owner of the property some 60 70 years ago. He used to have his his

53:48farm stand on that property. He lived across the street and uh and actually he owned he owned the other corner as as

53:55well. But that's where his wife would go over and tend to this the vegetable stand on the property.

54:04Yeah. Well, again bought it from the T. Yeah. Okay.

54:08So, it was over the years. Yeah. That's where the opening is. So, fine. The opening just passed it on and passed it on.

54:16Can I answer a question?

54:18Is that the only waiver really looking for? That's the only one that we we see.

54:25Bill, we can stack some up if you want us to. Yeah. Yeah. Surprise.

54:34There was another question in the gra report about the storm water management being Yeah.

54:42being odd. Yep.

54:43Um here's what here's what we do. He would call it irregular or unusual and I would call it innovative. Um [laughter]

54:53it's not that I have my salesman's hat on, but um we have a have a um a storm water collection area above the site and what it does, it collects the offsite

55:02runoff and uses that runoff for recharge. Now the storm water management policy um addresses treatment of storm

55:09water collected from paved surfaces before you can recharge it. Um, in this case, we're collecting clean runoff and recharging that, which from an

55:17environmental standpoint, I I submit is much more desirable. Um, Graves Engineering, Mike's a a talented and

55:26critical guy, but he's also logical and I think he will listen to this and I would look forward to us a little bit a discussion with him. But I think,

55:34frankly, I think it's a it's a good idea. Um, and and I think I think Mike will concur with it if we get a chance to discuss.

55:43And we're also recharging the pavement runoff or well we meet the recharge standard by collecting the offsite runoff. So it's

55:53we infiltration is large enough to capture all absolutely that will right there. Yep.

56:02Oh bre.

56:11So, we'll let the engineers meet and will the coordinator.

56:28And so, you've had time to see Graz. You've seen his comments.

56:33We got their initial comments and we actually responded to them the first week of August. But as I say, Mike's been away, so he has an alternative.

56:41Yeah. July 27th.

56:43So beginning there was a couple. Yeah. Storm water storage calculations.

56:52As I say, they're like you change, get location.

56:57We we think we're pretty good with storm water design, but those guys always come in with great questions and they they

57:04always kind of challenge us, which is good. That's what's And did you make the updates that he requested on his?

57:12Yes. With the exception of the [clears throat] uh um the phototric plan. Yeah. And the relocating the driveway.

57:18Okay. I think we've responded for obviously elevations and all. I believe we've responded. I mean, Mike would have to review that.

57:26I'm satisfied with it. Right. Right. Right.

57:28How about the sight distance on the road?

57:31Yep. We showed him the the sight distance if you're looking west is 5 60 ft way over and there's jersey barriers in the

57:40middle of Route 20. So there's no need for sight distance looking but it would be hundreds hundreds of

57:47feet if you did measure and that was a field verified site too. Now are they building mounted lights?

57:54What's on the um we have building mounted lights? I don't think we have any um I don't think

58:02we have sight um I think pole mounted but I think we have building mounted I think it's calling for either two or three.

58:10Yeah. But what we do is this building is going to have uh a fullsided roof and in the set there just like we did with the

58:19the vets is we'll put in the socket lights which you know gives you coverage walls coming down and and I will say

58:27this is that we we did put up two pole lights. One of the pole lights over the vets shines to the east. We had it we had

58:36adjust it three times because as you come up by the hill there that light even though it was we had it

58:43on the parking lot that it was still glaring on. That's I mean that's my biggest concern is the glare on the highway coming that

58:51correct was right and there's no pool lights for this

58:59building for this no I think I believe I think there's a couple installment but no on this side this

59:08it would have the architect the architect has come up with a couple they would be in the the front left the

59:15front corner uh which should be east and I think he's got one uh over on the right corner which would be west coming

59:24in this way but nothing going towards route 20 there's no uh lights on route 20 near

59:33you right now no lights on section the instruction

59:41and then the uh commissioner made some mention of the retaining walls control instruction on those

59:50detail. We have um I I have a question the rest

1:00:00item here mentions talking to DOT. Can you check with them

1:00:07to see how they feel about as far as the driveway?

1:00:11Well, yeah. We have to we have to file a a permit application with DOT anyway. So you believe that that can be resolved?

1:00:20The district bylaw is us, right? The distance.

1:00:23Yes. Right. The bylaw is your your zoning by separation. So I mean I mean I guess might have a

1:00:30comment or something like they it's really up to us to wait. They put that in there.

1:00:36Did they put it in knowing where the other driveway is already? Yep.

1:00:39So thank you for that.

1:00:42So that's that's the neighbor has two driveways going in. It's kind of a loop run. Is that right?

1:00:49Yes. Yes.

1:00:58Um, how many like units? Is this just one tenant?

1:01:03Um, right now we anticipate 6,000 ft goes to the prospective tenant that that Rob is is working with and there's a

1:01:11remaining 1500 ft that would go be Seek all on one. How tall is this? One level building.

1:01:21One level. Open span the whole thing. Open span. Yeah.

1:01:27I'm sure it's a top secret tenant, but do you have what is what what does it what industry is it?

1:01:36It's a tenant we already have. I mean, what they want to do is is uh increase their space. They already have 18,900

1:01:45square feet. Now they want Okay. I want want this 6,000.

1:01:49I was waiting for something exciting to come to town.

1:01:52Well, they were in town. They already in town grocery store. Yeah. Any doors loading?

1:02:01No doubt.

1:02:04So So it's not warehousing.

1:02:07No, don't office. And then then then maybe some type of retail on on the car.

1:02:16The elevation drivers look good. It's a nice looking I'd love to say it's a Trader Joe's, but

1:02:23save my wife some driving, but you work on that.

1:02:26No, I can't. I'd love to, but they wanted to go to Starbridge. That's what they wanted to go. They didn't.

1:02:33What's your plans for for heating and cooling this?

1:02:38Um probably propane. Yeah.

1:02:42Um and then uh with the air conditioning is just regular uh

1:02:50conventional units that mount outside with the uh heat pumps with the uh air handles on the inside. I mean old school.

1:02:58Yeah. Um heat pumps. So you can't afford them.

1:03:07What are the plans for this property? That's my neighbor likes to go hunting.

1:03:12So [laughter] it goes up there. Yeah. But uh no plans yet.

1:03:19Got the farm stand back.

1:03:21Well that then would then would be over the 43,280 square ft disturbed area and we got which happens there.

1:03:31Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Disturbed.

1:03:35Go to town of Abin. It's only what 6 6,000 square ft disturbed area. You got to go

1:03:43through through hells but you got to go through.

1:03:50So do we want to um [clears throat] continue the public hearing?

1:03:55I assume that we should have a graves report for September 2nd. Do we have room on the schedule for

1:04:02We have as much room on the second as we do on the 16th. So just as bad for both.

1:04:07I I would there already a placeholder on there for you guys one of those

1:04:15or second we could at least review. We we have the fundamentals.

1:04:24We have a chance to to the rest of this stuff. All right. I'm making a before we before we do that, what do we think about the photo?

1:04:31Oh, sorry. Um, we did have an opportunity, the fire inspector did have an opportunity to review the plans. Um,

1:04:39he wasn't able to send his comments in, so uh, he elects to send it with me. Um, the only thing that we're asking for is

1:04:46an EAS box um, to be mounted on the building so we can gain access into the building. It's a pretty standard request

1:04:53for all commercial properties. Um it just limits our uh damage to the building in the event that we have to uh

1:05:00get into the building off hours um for alarms. Um he wasn't able to uh he he

1:05:08says it appears that we have the ability to get our fire apparatus around the building. He's just um wondering if we can get a radius study um for we have your truck access.

1:05:16Yeah, exactly.

1:05:18So, just to confirm, just to make sure that we can get access, um, and I'm sure you know that as long as the building is under 7,500 ft, it

1:05:25doesn't require a sprinkler. Um, that's why it's $74.99.

1:05:29Well, that's what when he measured it and he he told me that it it was that and I go, "Mr. Very, very smart man."

1:05:37So, um, that's a coincidence.

1:05:39Yeah, exactly. And so he just he had that noted just to confirm that it's um less than the 7500 square feet just so

1:05:46that way it doesn't require that. But that was that's it. Um we didn't have any other uh notations on the on the plan. So

1:05:55uh chief again I got the look the Knox box. Yeah. You know what the

1:06:03Knox boxes? You know those little boxes you see outside building. What do you think it cost for Knox box? I'm going to go and go buy an ox pot.

1:06:11And again, it's it's a it's a reasonable request.

1:06:15It used to be $456, but do you think they went down? Of course not. It's incred It's just nuts.

1:06:23I don't think we have any control over the price of that, though. So, preaching to the choir here.

1:06:28I don't again, Chief, am I required by law to have one?

1:06:32You're not required by law to have one, but it is in your best interest. Well, sometimes, you know, you break down the

1:06:40front door, it's less money than with that Knox. [laughter] There was there was a recent business that unfortunately uh did not have one

1:06:48and we had to access their business um using our uh firefighter conventional

1:06:54devices. And um he he then put a Knox box on because he realized

1:07:00so um at the front door. Yeah, he realized that it was much cheaper to put

1:07:07the box and um to your point, I believe the price has actually come down significantly and you may have put

1:07:15the wrong box on because we just priced one out for a business and I think it's

1:07:23I I think it's $300 or less to be honest with you.

1:07:26So So it's Yes, I believe it is. I believe it's $300 with the company. I just priced one out for business. So, I can get you the

1:07:35flyer tomorrow. So, um for that it's a lot cheaper than the cost of replacing a door, right?

1:07:43I can't pretty thick Polish guy.

1:07:47Um a friend of mine was tearing up building down uh in north of Boston in the Knox

1:07:58box was there. So he says, "John, you know, put that aside." A offduty fireman came by and said, "I'm

1:08:07from the fire department. I want to take the box." Took the box. What do you think that box mean? Anyways, moving on. Nice job.

1:08:16Right there.

1:08:17I'll make a motion to to uh send this public hearing to September 2nd or uh

1:08:2523 was all in favor. I thank you. Thank you.

1:08:32In the meantime, thanks. Thank you.

1:08:36[clears throat]

1:08:36Sorry.

1:08:40Let's wait to hear back from Grace. I I I think we need to know what's going on the lights and make sure that there no

1:08:49Can we down lights and not

1:08:57shielded just shielded so that they

1:09:03don't want to have Yeah, we

1:09:12to look at the lighting plan just to make sure that there there's no reflection. Let's say completely down lights. They don't reflect. I think it

1:09:20was if I correctly it was do but that they could light down.

1:09:33Yeah, I'm okay with

1:09:47always have somebody tell us. Yeah, you guys just

1:09:53All right. So, we have um Great LLC. Um,

1:10:08yeah.

1:10:18Oh, no. You're right.

1:10:24In accordance with the section 207.1 and 27.2, the zone by the child and planning board will hold a public hearing on

1:10:31Wednesday, August 12th. Um in the planning board office um main street

1:10:38mass on the application of great grace for uh LLC Village Street Mass for site plan

1:10:47approval to renovate the existing 2312T building into a proposed restaurant. The property is located at 61 North Street

1:10:56Child 35 D7.2

1:11:03said property zone village for us.

1:11:11Um, okay. So, basically there's no changes upside. Um, I had talked to Curtis Oh, Commissioner Curtis, sorry.

1:11:23And I mean there's more parking than what's required in the existing parking.

1:11:27There's 16 regular spaces towards the front. There's four handicaps right by the um door, entry door. And there's

1:11:35five what I consider employee parking um out to the left. And so technically you have 16 regular five employee and four.

1:11:45But what's required is 12 spaces and four um well there's four handicap so I consider

1:11:54they're having about four employees so there's plenty of parking back here and we have plenty of parking up front plus the handicap parking

1:12:01and it's all based on the amount of tables right in the restaurant right so that the population is based on

1:12:09yeah with the uh um occupancy which is pretty you know there's only so much So, you only can put so many tables. So, it's not going to change.

1:12:17It's not, you know, right. And actually, to be honest, um the the sitting area, if you guys want

1:12:26to just kind of take a look, is right here. And then the kitchen and everything else is over here. The kitchen area and everything else takes

1:12:34up more room than the actual seating area.

1:12:42Sorry to frame the face. I just figured you guys didn't have No, we didn't. We don't have these.

1:12:47Well, cuz they didn't ask for one for me, but that's why I brought Lisa's copy.

1:12:55So, I think that you were potentially asking to to um wave the the site plan

1:13:04application u because there isn't any Well, yeah. I had just asked the question and it was your first week,

1:13:11wasn't it? Yeah. So, so this was something kind of we we I took this in as a site plan application. Um it was

1:13:20this week and kind of reviewing the bylaw, but I actually realized that this can the whole thing can be waved and I

1:13:27I'll just kind of go through uh here where uh this is included in your packet. It is 207.1

1:13:35uh D uh 2 C through F. Um so the planning

1:13:44board may in any particular case where such actions allowed by law in the in uh in the public interest and not inconsistent with the purpose and intent

1:13:51of the site plan review wave strict compliance with its rules and regulations and plan board may wave the requirement for site [clears throat] plan review where there is a change in

1:14:00use or occupancy and no substantial construction or improvements to the site will occur and the waiver may only be granted after a finding by the planning

1:14:09board that the proposed use will not substantially affect existing drainage, vehicular and pedestrian circulation patterns and any of the other standards

1:14:17for criteria provided for here and after in this section [clears throat] and sufficient parking exist the new proposed use and this fits all those

1:14:27criteria. Uh no changes to the exterior, everything's moving on the interior and based on their proposed [clears throat] use they they have sufficient parking.

1:14:35So if you folks are be able to make that finding which I believe you have sufficient evidence to do so um you can

1:14:42uh in either case you can permit it however you see fit um in all cases it

1:14:50uh is permissible with what is considered there's a lot of flexibility

1:14:57and I did look at this and I I I'm not sure what we are kind of look at in on

1:15:06Yeah. I just I think I have a couple questions if I can through the chair. Um what type of restaurant is it? I mean it's what type of food or is it that is there substantial takeout involved?

1:15:18[clears throat]

1:15:18Might be a pickup. I haven't decided yet, but it mostly maybe a pickup and a special dining restaurant. So it's it's

1:15:25how many how many tables do you expect or it's about 30 d 30 customers?

1:15:3530 customers. Okay. With substantial takeout. I mean the only reason I'm I'm asking is is is the the traffic in and

1:15:43out of there. Is that enough if you've got 30 people in there and there's still people coming in to pick up food? And I just something to think about.

1:15:52Um based on what like what we had at with like Charleston pizza, you know.

1:16:00Yeah. I mean I guess that might be similar. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:06So, um can I just just

1:16:14my assumption being a parent being whatever is you know to go

1:16:22to a pizza place or a pizza restaurant whatever you know and you go in is actually sitting there.

1:16:30It's to me it would be more fun to just go out and sit there and so you don't have to clean up my house afterwards.

1:16:37But I mean it's just there will be tables um you know so I think that once

1:16:43people get to know that there's enough space and whatnot they won't just order everything to go.

1:16:50So that's usually I have I have another restaurant in Sbury.

1:16:56So usually I got to pull him every table is busy. Okay.

1:17:00So customer just decide to take it to the Okay. Take it to the next the next the next town. Yeah. Okay.

1:17:06What's the seating actually going to be? Um I have that. Hold on. 34.

1:17:15Yeah. All right. I did read that.

1:17:20It actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. Something like that.

1:17:32I've just seen some restaurants that have way too much parking for what they have for indoor customers and mostly

1:17:41take out. And I've seen other restaurants that don't have nearly enough parking for the numbers customer.

1:17:47you don't and you don't know, you know, um like hopefully it'll be a big hit, right? And it'll be packed all the time.

1:17:54Um so I'm just thinking if it if it's packed all the time, is there enough space for

1:18:02you? 34 say 15 10 12 tables. Does that sound about right? 12 tables.

1:18:12Probably okay.

1:18:13Yeah. And there's a there's a lot more spaces there than what's actually required.

1:18:18So we have an overvailable I mean there's a there's a calculation right how many tables you have in the restaurant to the seating plan. So that that's how they they calculate it.

1:18:30Um and then so that's I mean if it was if it was any sort of a drive-thru or anything then that would

1:18:38be a huge you know that would be a huge issue. Um, but it's a it's certainly a better set setup than what we have currently.

1:18:48Yep. Across across the street. Um, like and how how bad is that? Yeah.

1:18:54But sometimes with the backing out thing and stuff it gets it gets kind of just trying to avoid that going forward.

1:19:00[clears throat] That's all I'm looking at is trying to avoid something.

1:19:04You I mean obviously you know your competition.

1:19:07So, um that's what we're but there's significantly more parking at least

1:19:14close right to the um the whole you know all the parking spot like in

1:19:21front of the grocery store and everything over there.

1:19:24Does everybody else feel comfortable about Yeah. 25.

1:19:32Well, I'm just wondering about the traffic being a major intersection for the town and right up the street from that. They're going to be trouble coming in.

1:19:42All the big the big issue is when all the kids come get out of Bayath and you can't get up down that road, you're stuck.

1:19:49That area is is designed for these type of businesses.

1:19:52Oh, I agree. No, but I'm just saying the thing to think of is, you know, the people coming in and out. You know,

1:20:01I like if it was um a movie theater, right? And and I'll just make it up and everybody leaves at the same time.

1:20:09Yeah. coming in.

1:20:10There wasn't a bunch of people that are going to be leaving at once. And I mean, I mean, there'll be sort of like a rush time during the time, but I don't think

1:20:20I just, you know, um, throw everything out there if we just there were some concerns that Kurt had.

1:20:27Um, I don't know whether we can address those plans or do you want to go through without going the full site plan?

1:20:33Yeah. Uh so one of the ones he said was it's not listed in the village district which I'm not sure about that one was listed in the village district. Um just

1:20:41saying that the applicant should list uh the location of proposed signage just to to have that included on the plans and

1:20:49consult with the board of health regarding cooking facilities, public water supply, sewage disposal. That's all going to have to happen.

1:20:56Have you guys already met with the board of health?

1:21:02Now, we wanted to I've talked to Commissioner Pis several times. Um, and basically at first he thought that we

1:21:11were changing the outside the the building or whatnot and I kept telling him we're not changing anything outside.

1:21:16Stays the same. Stays the same. Um, and whatnot. So, once we get through this, I told him I give him a call and the

1:21:24engineer myself and I will probably meet with them. And I I'll also note it was actually uh trick that pointed me in the

1:21:31direction of this waiver provision here that option. So he has no objections to that.

1:21:37I mean I truly think it's more of more of like a fire issue with any of the any of the tanks they have. More of a you know um what a health issue with all the

1:21:46the food inspector. So I I I don't think we need to put you through the um the fund of a a site plan review um or the

1:21:55the There was already sighting done on this property anyways and nothing's really changing on the part of the sponsor.

1:22:02So, I just going to say structurally I don't know exactly if you can do it, but

1:22:10you know, we can we can always let that that come up later. You could give a a conditional waiver of just saying, you know, all the conditions you want there.

1:22:16That still requires approval from fire, uh, board of health, any other bodies.

1:22:21Again, it's one of those things. It's true whether or not you say it, but it's always good to say it.

1:22:26Yeah. And then we um there's an engineer involved that'll be stamping the plans and he's already looked at everything and done everything and the code review

1:22:34and everything else. So, when was the last site plan?

1:22:502009. There's two stamps.

1:22:56Oh, there's a stamp right there. I can't read that. 2011. Oh, yeah.

1:23:08[clears throat]

1:23:20[clears throat]

1:23:20Okay. What do you need for the decision tonight? Anything?

1:23:23We have to I would say we have to vote whether if we want to wave the site plan

1:23:30that you know all those approvals.

1:23:34Correct. And it's worth noting I know some folks here are for public comment.

1:23:39Just one thing I'll I'll mention procedurally uh to those not in the the planning board know site plan approvals are are

1:23:46non-discretionary um it's a it's a review um but they're permitted by right and if you meet the

1:23:53criteria the permits get issued so just bear that in mind that is procedure like to let people know that

1:24:01but if we force the site plan we'd have to approve it anyways with modifications we wanted

1:24:10would we require any modifications? I guess that's that's kind of the So, what this does is it it's just it

1:24:18wait it sort of takes away the cost of all the permits and and uh and the uh and have the engineer show up and present and all that to just make the

1:24:27you know to not spend the money for something that you sort of you don't really need, right? because there's no

1:24:34changes. It's already it was already reviewed in you know 2011 with no changes. So the waters nothing changed in that.

1:24:43Are both of these properties under the same ownership?

1:24:47No one there's this one property. Oh, this this one right here. Yes.

1:24:52Yeah. No, this is um this is a different Yeah.

1:24:56There's a different there's a right of way for for access. There is a there is a sharable Broadway I think. Okay.

1:25:03The back the side.

1:25:05Yeah. I mean that that that access to it looks like access to the employee parking around back would be through the other property or through offer road.

1:25:16The it used to be a parking lot. Yeah. That's how you get to the back. Yeah.

1:25:22So I I have to assume there there is a right of way right away to use that for how you get to the dumpster.

1:25:29Yep.

1:25:35So do we have public any public comments?

1:25:37I I have a question. Uh Tamar Eperian 59 North Main Street. Um I have a question about um proposed hours.

1:25:49It's going to be 11 to 10. What? I'm sorry I didn't hit it.

1:25:5711 to 10 or 10 to 10 something like that.

1:26:06Family pizza. How is it going to be like say pizza places at the same spot?

1:26:13So most of them is going to affect us. [snorts] It adds a little bit of competition with that. Great.

1:26:23Um I don't think this board has any authority to more discussion uh limit what type of business it is or

1:26:32it's it's all

1:26:44um I don't know if you want we reviewed the plans as well. Um, we didn't have any issues with access to the site for

1:26:52fiber apparatus. Um, we've we've been there a bunch of times um before for the other use of the building. Um, as far as

1:27:01EAS, um, you guys are fortunate there's already an EAS box on the building. So, um, 500 bucks.

1:27:08Yeah. $350.

1:27:12Um, we'll just need to get, uh, keys updated um, for it. And then the only other concerns for um will be handled

1:27:19through the building permit process such as um kitchen hoods, fire alarm upgrades, and stuff like that. We we'll end up dealing with that um as that um

1:27:27process um goes through, but we didn't have any other issues with it. So

1:27:37when did the ownership of the property change? Okay. just this year.

1:27:49Just a quick question.

1:27:52Noting terms still as I'm coming up to speed. I don't know if our zoning bylaw does have anything about hours of operation that limits it. I don't know

1:28:00if that ends up being processed through the select board or anything that is put on as part of a waiver. If you folks go the waiver route, if you might want to even just

1:28:08I've never looked. We've always asked about the hours of operation, but we've never really in the but we've never really and then it's on

1:28:16the record because they in the minutes, but we but it would be it's the building enforcement that would in Is there are you a liquor license?

1:28:27So is that restriction?

1:28:29There may be bylaws, but there would be liquor license. Maybe if you have a liquor license or planning liquor license for hours.

1:28:40Is that how you intend full liquor beer or wine liquor license?

1:28:44Oh, special permit. You couldn't live with that for Yeah. For by That's all that's the select, not us.

1:28:54Excellent.

1:28:55All right. Do you guys know what time the other pizza places or the other um restaurants that are across Charlton Woods rolls up their sidewalks

1:29:02at 10:00. So as Charlton [laughter] rolls up their sidewalks at 10:00, nobody's allowed out.

1:29:11I just assume that but you said wine and beer liquor

1:29:18license that you pursue special process section.

1:29:29So I thought that was more for a special.

1:29:38Yeah.

1:29:42So I guess we need to So I I you know one thing I we could do is we we could limit the hours from 10 to 10. Is that

1:29:52suitable for you for if it's early?

1:29:56Well, I I you know, we whether it's upholdable or not, I

1:30:04think uh yeah, I think the concern here is, you know, you're not are we inadvertently permitting, you

1:30:12know, what could be a 24/7 business. Not saying that you plan on doing that, but that that might be Well, he said um 11 or say 11 to 10.

1:30:2510 to 10.

1:30:2710 to 10. I think that's 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.

1:30:29Or it just wants to know and then I'll just submit something if you want to make that part of the application and if you need to change it, you have to come back.

1:30:37Sure. Modify.

1:30:39So 10 to 10 10 to 10.

1:30:41Then you folks can modify that in a in a public meeting. You would need to do a cold resubmit, but just something the board has to sign off on.

1:30:51So, are they they still need to file an application through the planning board or there is no everything's been filed. Um they it they

1:30:59they did all that. It's just a question if it's Yeah. the waiver of the need for the full site plan.

1:31:04Um with the conditions I'll make a motion to wave the requirement for site plan for this

1:31:10property. I'm sorry. uh to 61 North Main Street, Shelton for Great Grace LLC with

1:31:19conditions with the the condition that their hours be allowed from 10 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.

1:31:28Second motion.

1:31:32I I any other public comments though that Sorry.

1:31:44Thank you. Thank you, Dylan.

1:31:48[cough]

1:31:50Every time Curtis sees my phone number, he does want to answer. Don't worry, that's the phone rings.

1:31:57That's [laughter] number special. Yeah, I appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:32:05Good luck. I appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you.

1:32:14What What are you going to call it? What's the name? Do you have a name yet? Do you have a good name for me? What's your What's your restaurant?

1:32:22Pizza.

1:32:24Don't name it child pizza. Whatever you Yeah. No, no family, no house. I'm going to I'm going to surprise you. Regional House of Pizza and Seafood.

1:32:33[laughter] I think that one What is it? Regional House of Pizza.

1:32:37And make sure your last four numbers are 2666 number.

1:32:44You got that on your speed dial or what is it? 266.

1:32:47266. It's I think is the rest of them.

1:32:52[laughter]

1:32:531666.

1:32:55You know what the fun about? I have tried this by mistake because he means the other one.

1:33:01Right. It's how you end up trying them all. Wrong number. I'm going to try to do the best.

1:33:08Appcate.

1:33:11[laughter]

1:33:12Thank you very much. Who knew?

1:33:21I need a substation.

1:33:22Okay. Well, I have Oh, that's

1:33:29we have so we have um Freedom Enterprises um

1:33:39they with the proposed gas station they're um they're they're having they already continued to

1:33:48September 2nd 20 years ago. think we have to vote on that because I think we they already have it on this part of the agenda. Um Jesse and Jesse Properties

1:33:57LLC um they requested an extension to September 16th.

1:34:05Okay. All right.

1:34:06Um so um do we need a motion to make a motion to extend the Jesse Jesse

1:34:14application to September 16th, 2026 meeting? Second. Second. All in favor?

1:34:21I I um we have Do you want to hold on to this Jesse and Jesse stuff for next time?

1:34:28Yeah, you can. Yep.

1:34:34Then you've got um I miss them. Yep. They're requesting.

1:34:42Uh we have Oh, sorry. We have New England Power Company. Um they requested uh continuing to September 16th also.

1:34:51Okay. I have a motion. I move that we uh postpone the site plan uh for power company to September 16.

1:35:03Second.

1:35:05Okay. All um and so we have Fabiola the Caesar

1:35:15um for Pon Hill. Um there is and it's they requested a continent to um

1:35:23September 2nd 202. I move that we postpone the RA estate

1:35:33subdivision modification to the September meeting. Second. All in favor?

1:35:39I then Brady the Smith Road. So, I don't think I included anything in your packet here for this one. That was my mistake.

1:35:45It was just an email that I've received what it's uh it was a special permit that it approved. It's going to expire in October and he's receiving

1:35:53[clears throat] an extension. He's building single family home um a lot on Smith Road.

1:35:59What date it to?

1:36:02I believe uh you can send it to any date, but I would think it was October 22nd was the date of 2027, which I

1:36:10recommend that that should be plenty of time. needs almost started construction but you know against that deadline. So we just vote on that.

1:36:20Yep. I I move that we um approve the annual

1:36:26extension for the Smith Road lot owned by Brady.

1:36:34Second.

1:36:35All in favor? I I we have another ANR, right?

1:36:46And then there is just a we suspect somebody when they came to grab an ANR might have grabbed too many

1:36:53ANRs. Um so then we just need a resigning of an ANR yet already approved. This is this one here.

1:37:01Files for them.

1:37:02This is for powers. We So we've got a power ones. Yeah. and the resign.

1:37:08[clears throat]

1:37:08Did they file the other ones for it? October 20 years.

1:37:16No problem. Two different dates.

1:37:20Lots here for you folks. One here. Everything's good on our end.

1:37:30I think the one thing was there wasn't like a statement of purpose on here.

1:37:33here. I don't think that's required, but um as far as we can tell, everything with the division is not required.

1:37:41It is. And I think they just show what [clears throat] are you trying to do here? Yeah. Which is kind of the summary of it.

1:37:48So they did it. They just did labeling.

1:37:51Yeah. I I think that's typically how we see it.

1:37:54Yeah. I think it's we're combining this lot and that lot or splitting this and that. That's all that Yeah. That's why I felt like this was

1:38:02sufficient. Something the building commissioner pointed out. I'm like, seems like they get most of the way there.

1:38:15Oh, I see. But he's not actually saying.

1:38:26Yeah. I mean I it it doesn't visually show what he's what is he trying to do.

1:38:32I thought it was me but I'm reading this upside down. So I I think I can read it from here.

1:38:40Lot one and two meanings division writing lot one and two.

1:38:45I mean I mean one okay so this was all one big lot

1:38:55and he's dividing it into two lots. Do you want them to reprint one that actually spells it the statement of purpose? Everybody feels comfortable

1:39:02signing it like this. It's up to you folks.

1:39:18cutting this piece out here.

1:39:23Cutting off lot two from this larger lot still has front edge.

1:39:29So on the application he wrote to create a parcel for conveyance to an abunding lot. That's what um the purpose was.

1:39:38That made me sell this whole thing. Yeah.

1:39:47I'm a little lost.

1:39:51That's probably what he's Yeah. So he's look he's he's given a

1:40:00he's selling a piece to the neighbor and and so Oh okay and all right and bills will still be a requirement

1:40:11we used to most people actually saying you know purpose when I'm on it and and so yeah

1:40:24basis for any objection no I would um I mean As an auditor, I'd say incorrect. Send it back. But as not

1:40:32as a non- auditor, I'd say, you know, good enough.

1:40:35Good enough for as a set of plans. Um a legal set of plans, right?

1:40:42This is this is powers. I make motion to accept the ANR for 48 cartridge road powers dividing into that.

1:40:53All in favor?

1:40:54I I thank you.

1:41:05over there. Come sign. This is a resign.

1:41:08That's just a resign. Yep. That's the one you guys did on July. We have a Do we have a date on it?

1:41:13Um, do we have What's the original date? July 15th.

1:41:17Yeah, I would put the original July 15th was approval and Yep.

1:41:2815. Yes.

1:41:32[clears throat]

1:41:53One of the paper one of the paper ones.

1:42:12Just one.

1:42:17So, oh, we have the paper ones for the other one, right?

1:42:24Then they're like, "Oh, we pretend that the baby probably just works paper.

1:42:34So, do we know who took it? No. No. They never brought it back.

1:42:40That's just They were like, "Oh, they're we're just going to throw it away." Yeah.

1:42:44Maybe one day we'll we'll move all this stuff around. Who knows?

1:42:50It'll be like it'll be delivered, you know, you know, in secret back. Slide it under the door.

1:42:57It'll be under the door when you come in.

1:43:01We'll find even on Earth Day, we'll find it on the side of the road. [laughter] All sides.

1:43:11Yeah, we got that one.

1:43:20Decommission bond. Uh that's also just passing back to be addressed at the 16th meeting. No, uh nothing needs to be for

1:43:28that. know you said there's a planning director report I'd like to just have a a session here might give you guys updates planning department wise

1:43:35one thing uh that we've been dealing with here that I would like to make a change on is how we do public notice

1:43:42currently what we do is we'll send applicants down to the assessor's office they have to get the whole list from the

1:43:49assessor then they make up the envelopes then we charge them for the envelopes and then we have Jane essentially stuff each envelope [clears throat]

1:43:56with a notice and then it goes out with a um what's the little green slip called? I'm blanking on it. Certified.

1:44:02Certified. Um what you can do, and what is very common in other towns, I'll sometimes get the

1:44:10postcards, is a postcard notice. It makes it that it cuts the time down significantly of Jane's time. It makes

1:44:17it significantly more simple for the applicant because it's can be a it's not a problem for obviously larger

1:44:25um applications and you can certainly have that as an option for uh larger developers like Amazon. I would

1:44:34still recommend that they go the certified mail route. Um, what it does from switching from a postcard from

1:44:40certified mail is on an appeal, if somebody were to say, "I was never notified." Certified mail does give you, you know, [clears throat] a little extra

1:44:48layer saying, "Hey, we sent the certified mail." Postcard, you still have a record of who you sent that to.

1:44:54Um, but they but they don't have a record of it was actually delivered to them.

1:44:58Correct. Because you will still get them back when it says, you know, not deliverable. We still receive them. We still keep that part of the record. So yeah, we

1:45:05so our right and it's and it's so I I did I researched that myself when we were talking about this. So it's our

1:45:12bylaws say that we we do it. So it's it's we do it as as child planning board, but the state law statewise we

1:45:20don't have to do it. It's a So, I'm I'm curious if we can if we could wave it when we feel it's

1:45:28reasonable to wave it and keep I don't want to um I don't want to not have it for like the Amazon projects and how do you put in

1:45:37ready in a bylaw oh a project this size or up. Can we just have the ability to wave it as as a a discretional

1:45:46discretionary wave it as the board and do we have to change the bylaw just to be able to wave it because we we have

1:45:54to change it anyway. Is it whatever we want it to? I mean, we could look at changing bylaws and it's sense.

1:46:03I know it's an expense for the applicant, but it's also little insurance for the town.

1:46:11Yeah. if it's done.

1:46:12I mean, I I um like for example, we have we're we're the when we do the lighting

1:46:21plan for um recreation, then it's just going to come out of the town's money and go back in and we'll

1:46:28and we'll be able to Right.

1:46:32Now, does the town send these out or is the applicant required to send these out? We send them out. But the applicant pays for them out.

1:46:41So [clears throat] the town is then liable for the if there's an issue about receipt, it's the town who gets you know somebody's saying I didn't

1:46:48receive notice and we're the ones that have to I trust the town. I don't trust builders. So yeah, we will developers I don't and then there's a post office.

1:46:59We we will be sending them out. It's not really the cost so much that I'm worried about because again that's that's on it's yeah the the the complexity of you

1:47:08know staffing all the envelopes. It's just it takes a lot of Jane's time for something that can you know takes several hours when you have a lot of uh

1:47:16applicants and it can be 15 minutes at most for you know regardless of how many because now you're just stacking you

1:47:24know this many of this many sheets [clears throat] of postcards so it simplifies it. Um what if you needed certified postcards?

1:47:34Yeah. Can't you have a certified postcard? I I swear I've got one. not save any time.

1:47:39Yeah, I think you're kind of right back to where you'd have to put, you know, the each post everyone by hand.

1:47:46Exactly. There's no automated way to do that.

1:47:51Yeah. Um postcard just just decision on that tonight though, right? No, it requires a change in the bylaw.

1:47:59Then the approach I would recommend would be to make an administrative determination because it passed the company to you guys and it's already been advertised and done.

1:48:06Um but that would be my recommendation. So one of the things to kind of start thinking about um and it's on regular site plans and

1:48:15special permits both that's a lot. What um [cough]

1:48:22is the warrant for the town meeting the fall town meeting already been closed? That that happens.

1:48:30Oh, still open. Still open. Just opened it. Just opened. Yeah.

1:48:34Yeah. Please put a note and propose some language maybe for a bylaw change.

1:48:42And and is everybody everybody wants the ability to wave it, right? That that it's it's it's a requirement, but the ability to wave it or something like that, right?

1:48:51Right. with uh we'll go into a post card, but uh can use certified mail

1:49:00upon determination by the planning board. Do you want to do determination by by the planning board or do determination by the planning office?

1:49:11That way it doesn't have to probably the planning office I think is I will write up the language for that.

1:49:21Yeah, I would see what the language already says, too. I don't know what it what it says. I like I'm just happy. I mean, I don't know truly if it has to if

1:49:28if if um an applicant's already talking to us if if we have to spend

1:49:35five minutes saying, "All right, Joe Smith, he's like, [clears throat] you know, um

1:49:42but it could they could delay it a month from, you know, when the postcards would go out for a special time meeting because now you we'd have to

1:49:51have a meeting, then go back to them and say, "Okay, you don't have to do this." And then it'll be another two weeks before they can,

1:49:58you know, come back again. I think that it was something minor enough just the office to the other administrative determination.

1:50:10And there's probably there's probably warnings already from from town that it'll uh I'll write up the language that

1:50:17will go on the agenda for the vote on the second. So that way then they have time to get on the war article. Good. Okay. I will go ahead.

1:50:26Anything else we need to put on the article?

1:50:28Yeah. Right. What other language do we need?

1:50:30Is there anything else? We did we made some major changes last time. So yeah, I don't see anything that we need to push.

1:50:38Um the maybe a high density

1:50:46I own highdensity housing zoning district or something like that. It's kind of red

1:50:53where high density housing is preferred to go rather than everywhere. I can um if

1:51:00folks are interested, I know when I was in East Hampton, one of the one of the provisions that we had in our bylaw was for multif family development that I

1:51:08actually thought was quite good. Um it was very heavily utilized. Basically, my time up was if somebody was going for a

1:51:16special permit for developing housing, it would be through this provision was very flexible. would allow for people to develop those types of

1:51:22in all zones or in a particular zone in all zones, but it would be uh depending on what zone you were in would

1:51:30determine what the requirements are. So, if you're in, you know, the the urban district, you know, you only need 5,000 square feet per unit where when you're in the rural district, you

1:51:38I'm just telling you that that there's that's not going to pass. Nope.

1:51:42All right. if we don't if we don't limit it to like say village district and um certain areas because everybody is going to say I definitely don't want to do

1:51:51plaques on my street or on my in my neighborhood. They're going to come and they will go absolutely against it. So, want a chance of passing?

1:51:59Yep.

1:52:00Um, I don't know. I'm sure you've seen it when you go to the town meeting and everybody shows up for that one thing because there's no way.

1:52:06Well, I can understand that somebody that buys them a large lot residential neighborhood thinking they're going to get, you know, large lot residential

1:52:13houses don't want high density housing in their in and you can completely limit what zones

1:52:19this is in. Um we have very few zones in this town and al and the a zone takes up

1:52:2690% of the land. So we would have to and that's where the complaints are going to come from.

1:52:30And if you say that it like like even if you sort of make it like special permit and we can decide they still won't trust us to decide. They'll they'll they'll

1:52:38come and you have to be very um uh careful about about changing

1:52:45things in this town. people get very so I don't know we may we maybe look at you know some of the CB zones we have or

1:52:54you know and I'm thinking some of these properties along Route 20 um

1:53:02would be would be suitable for that yeah type of um street even for

1:53:09so this is this is our 40 up here this is CB sorry this is all CB up through trolley crossing

1:53:17RSC does don't allow CB down here. We allow housing. CB allows for that.

1:53:23CB allows CB ralay districts like uh you know high density housing overlay districts in some of these these zones along here.

1:53:36Yeah, there's a lot of options.

1:53:37I mean, I think that's that's something that we're going to have to it's going to take a little while, but we probably have CMRC P the like planning to be able

1:53:47to actually have somebody come in and help us some of those hours we've earned.

1:53:52So, I mean, we've got this R40 section behind um behind the the Dunkin Donuts and that area back there, which makes sense.

1:54:01Which makes sense. That's But that's not something we'll be able to do for the next town meeting, but definitely maybe put that on our agenda.

1:54:08Yep. And just for funding, maybe it's something else.

1:54:10We need to start kind of pushing to definitely do something like that. And just yet the kind of that that consideration of what um you know one of

1:54:19the advantages of something like this is is so not that because you again you can borrow it entirely from uh the

1:54:26agricultural district but generally the way that this has been approached is that for every unit that you wanted to build in for example agricultural you

1:54:34need 60,000 square feet. So if you have a, you know, a 600 square 600,000 square

1:54:41foot lot, you can now build six units on it. The idea you could have done that anyways rather than spread out and then

1:54:49our no then I just it just you got to you got to make decisions

1:54:56like for the people who are voting for you, right?

1:55:00So, you've got a The only problem with that is you've got a small residential street and you've got a person that's got, you know, 30 acres of land and wants to put in 300 houses or or whatever, you know, 30 15 duplexes.

1:55:13Yep. And 20 30 duplexes. Um, and you definitely I I think folks are right. you you know the town better than I do.

1:55:21It's uh I just don't think it's I just all you got to say that there's going to be more than a six family effort more than right like or anything in this town

1:55:29and you're going to get people are going to all of a sudden we have 100 people who show up and all of a sudden you have you know 600 people that show up to vote

1:55:37against something specifically and then because they don't like you because you proposed that they're going to vote on everything [laughter] else they want to.

1:55:44Um yeah and again this is where we put these things where does the traffic go

1:55:53where does it have the and I'm not a person that's like I'm not one of I'm not saying oh we can't we need

1:56:00for sure um maybe even maybe even housing with kids because we don't have any kids in our school district anymore but um we need senior housing

1:56:08desperately we need we have uh um personally I've known people that have had to move out of town um because

1:56:16they're now living on here every time and and they just can't afford to and there's not even a small house to buy.

1:56:22We never have to mind like you know rent units to rent, right? So it's it's a huge issue but um it's that balance.

1:56:31So how do we fund a housing affordable housing trust fund?

1:56:36Raise everybody's taxes 2%. Well, I mean, how about some of these large businesses that are coming in um you know, make out, you know, a tiff deal or

1:56:46or whatever like that. You've got big battery energy farm and they can fund partially or Amazon wants to go to flex delivery. They can fund

1:56:54partially 20 corridor study brought this. But you're right. We can make a tiff deal, but are we giving are we giving that money toward the trust fund

1:57:02or are we giving that money toward like the des the the desperate schools that we're like we're like we're talking about 30 million.

1:57:11You're ever going to you're never going to you're never going to cure the school problem.

1:57:15Well, but I mean right now they're asking for 10 million. It's 30 more million next year. It's more it's it's you know eventually the high school is going to be it's going to be 100

1:57:23million. And um it's all the harder maintenance that's and the state's not kicking in what it used to. So, it's all falling back on the town again. So, that's

1:57:31that's the problem is do you do you put money in in in an account where you know when you're when you're desperate to um

1:57:39and we have the senior center that that that are like I don't think you need a fund anyway. If you make it attractive enough zoning,

1:57:48then they will come and you know denser housing units and make some more affordable.

1:57:58So I had a like they really were like where we could potentially put anything like that is really the place where we

1:58:06make you know we would have our businesses where all of our revenue is and so do you take the potential like do

1:58:13you say no Amazon we don't want your million dollar a year. What we really want is a giant 400, you know, with

1:58:21it'll solve our low-inccome housing problem. You're sacrificing.

1:58:24However, now everybody's everybody's taxes has to go up to fund what the schools need. Is that is that what we

1:58:32do? And what kind of decision is that as elected officials in in the town, right?

1:58:38because that's um people don't people don't didn't want to spend a few million

1:58:44for a fire station for 25 years, right? Like is that what we're going to say we're we're going to take away this

1:58:52tax revenue because eventually, you know, land [clears throat] is a limited resource list. So that's that's the problem with how do you how do you how do you how do

1:59:00you make it look bit better for developers? I mean that's that's the biggest thing is you look at the developers and they're not making any [clears throat] money on affordable housing. Yeah. Yeah, they got to get

1:59:08they they've got to get some some other incentives from the state to you know well us I mean the town needs some

1:59:16what's what's our incentive what really what is it I think we're trying to reinvent a real here we can't can't use this has been examined in other

1:59:24communities it doesn't work well you know I was just going to say I know with with affordable housing there are a lot of financial incentives um to

1:59:33do affordable housing both at the state and federal level Um, and a lot of times there's there's generally a matching

1:59:40from the town, which usually will come out of something like a CPA fund, which we don't have, but there are still other ways that that it

1:59:48can be funded. I know I remember working on a 40B years ago, the funding structured something like where, you

1:59:55know, businesses can buy these tax write offs in the form of this affordable housing tax credit essentially. Yeah. Tax credit for that.

2:00:04So it was always a, you know, a reliable funding source because everybody wants these tax credits. So they sell them every year that would go into the

2:00:11housing. So that's but that's less for us, right?

2:00:15That's less for the town and it's all about the town, right?

2:00:18The town I think a lot of towns are in the same ratio that we have. None of them are and and until you get to over that

2:00:27threshold, you still like there's a lot of grants are still not eligible. It's like so, so like how much do you give up and what's the long-term benefit? And

2:00:36I think we have some protection in our bylaws already. Um, as you pointed out, the third down cash deposit thing. I

2:00:44remember with Allen talking about that, that's a pretty big hurdle that slows things down quite a bit. So, I don't

2:00:51think that's such an urgent, you know, imminent threat that somebody

2:00:59Yeah. Yeah. And that and that's it's uh no water is a better one.

2:01:03The the lack of the the water and sewer is I think the biggest protection. But if we were to solve the water and sewer

2:01:12and really get those up and running, I guarantee you you start you start seeing hostile 40 days. We would be such a target for them.

2:01:20A big enough development can do their own treatment.

2:01:23Yeah. [clears throat] Community steward. you have enough land in and you know regen area and some of

2:01:30these systems that are coming up now and community well a solar farm to go along with it to help power it

2:01:37power makes it makes it all right so is there anything else that

2:01:44we have on any other business that's uh those are the big ones do you I guess just to finish this

2:01:53conversation off do you want to put some lang language into the next town meeting for housing changes.

2:02:01We don't we don't I don't think we have no I think I think we need like potentially CMRTC outlet for that, right? Like someone who

2:02:09can really and that's we can't do that for the next meeting. There's no way. Um how's it planned, master plan? And then that's the next thing we should probably do around next year.

2:02:18And um so if everybody will just um maybe everybody email their comments to

2:02:25um Jane and Dylan and um so we can kind of get I I really want them to change

2:02:32pursue to research or again consider or something because because imagine saying we're going to

2:02:40raise your taxes a half a percent and put it in this fund.

2:02:43We're going to pursue that like would be laughed out of that would be laughed out of that.

2:02:48Can you can you throw that document on the SharePoint?

2:02:50Um I just emailed that to you folks. I can throw it on the SharePoint. Okay.

2:02:55Uh oh, yeah. I if it was on a spot of the SharePoint, we could all add comments or something back.

2:03:01And I uh I'm internally working out the uh my filing system here. Once I I feel

2:03:08confident with there, I'm going to just essentially copy it over to the SharePoint. And you kind of see that in the Yeah, there's some things that I'll

2:03:16probably at this point be removed from this ship, but that's that's kind of BG I think is still on there. I think I might make a historic folder. There you go.

2:03:23Things in there. Yeah. Okay. Definitely clean it up.

2:03:27I I like your idea about putting it by application and street, not by meeting date like we had and that messes up.

2:03:37Yeah, that's true. It'll make it easier to refer it later.

2:03:40You can what you just need to know what year it was and then it'll go on like that. like that.

2:03:47Got that. And then yeah, I I as we keep going, I will kind of try to give you folks some ideas of different towns,

2:03:56different bylaws, stuff like that that may be worth considering, just, you know, workshop it to make it good for Charlton. Where I'm at right now, I'm

2:04:04still still in Vermont and in Milford, so working in Charleton. So hopefully this will be I will be at least in

2:04:12Milford at the start of next month. if not in Charlton still looking for a place and once I'm actually out in this area we have no affordable housing in this

2:04:20housing [laughter] you know even if it's affordable it's not affordable so it isn't even like one of my goals is going to be to try to

2:04:28start meeting on Fridays with some of the surrounding towns uh planning directors town administrators get a sense of how they're operating

2:04:36what you know maybe they're doing that we could could adopt over here that might exactly so it seems like all of us have the same

2:04:45issues with like less and less money from the state and trying to figure out how to, you know, um not to put your

2:04:52fees too high but enough like like like the um

2:04:59Okay. Anybody else make a motion to close? Second. All in favor?

2:05:07I I