2026-10-14 - Flock Presentation

00:04All right. So, what we're here for is

00:06first of all, my name is Anthony

00:07Robbins. I'm a lieutenant of the police

00:08department.

00:09Um

00:10and I'm here tonight to try and give you

00:12a little bit of

00:14information about Flock, how we use

00:15Flock,

00:17and

00:18then we'll answer some questions.

00:20Um I would ask just uh Mr. Bock is on

00:23here from Flock.

00:25Um if you have any questions for him

00:27directed to Flock,

00:29he can ask those right at the end of the

00:31presentation so I can He's got other

00:33commitments and I can get him

00:35moving along and then I'll stay as long

00:37as I need to to

00:38answer whatever you have and demonstrate

00:40whatever you need to demonstrate. Does

00:41that work for you, Carl?

00:45>> That sounds great. Thanks.

00:46>> Okay.

00:49So, what is an automated uh license

00:52plate reader? So,

00:54they're cameras that are specifically

00:56designed.

00:57Um

00:58they have an optical character

01:00recognition software in there that

01:02recognizes license plates.

01:04Um

01:06there are many forms of it and traveling

01:08all over our license plate readers are

01:09fixed fixed mounted. They're static to a

01:12pole. Um

01:15and our vendor is Flock Safety.

01:18So, Flock cameras photograph vehicles

01:20that pass the camera. They log the plate

01:22number, an image of the vehicle, GPS

01:24coordinates of where the camera was at

01:27the time, and apply a timestamp,

01:30and then put that into a searchable

01:32database.

01:34Uh software from Flock runs

01:36like I said, OCR on the plate, uploads

01:39the record to the Flock's cloud within

01:40seconds. And each record contains the

01:43plate number, a full frame vehicle

01:44photo, the camera's GPS coordinates, and

01:48the time of the uh

01:50the date and time of the image.

01:53A lot of people see cameras around town,

01:56see cameras in general, think they're a

01:57Flock camera. This is what a Flock

01:59camera looks like.

02:00Um

02:01So, I know we've had some other

02:03inquiries about cameras.

02:05This one is

02:06what we use, and this is what it looks

02:08like.

02:09Um they're solar-powered, they have a

02:10battery backup.

02:12They sit about 12 to 14 ft off the

02:14ground.

02:15Uh

02:16Ours are all ins- I'm sorry. Three out

02:19of the four of ours are installed on

02:20independent poles.

02:21One is installed on a shared pole.

02:24Uh they're used for investigatory

02:26purposes, and they provide us with

02:27precise data regarding vehicles.

02:30Uh we find it to be a force multiplier.

02:32It allows us

02:34uh to do more and do more faster.

02:38>> Is is that what's on the uh police

02:40vehicles as well, or is that different?

02:42>> We don't have any cameras on the police

02:44vehicles.

02:45>> Oh, okay.

02:46>> So, we have nothing on our vehicles at

02:48all. I just We have four cameras,

02:50and they are mounted to poles.

02:52>> So, no other surveillance anything on

02:54those cameras.

02:55>> We don't have We have body cameras, but

02:57we have no cruiser cameras, and we have

02:59no other plate reader technology.

03:02So.

03:03What does a Flock uh license plate

03:06reader collect? Um it gets the license

03:08plate number, full and partial mar- uh

03:10matches, uh a full frame photograph of

03:13the vehicle, camera GPS coordinates,

03:16a time stamp accurate to the second,

03:18vehicle color, make, body type,

03:20and other attributes, roof racks, bumper

03:23stickers, image patterns, missing

03:24hubcaps,

03:25>> cats, spoilers,

03:26>> and a direction of travel.

03:28Um

03:30If a camera is pointed in a direction

03:31and the car is going in

03:33one direction, we know the direction of

03:35travel. We don't know where it's going,

03:37where it's come from, but we know that

03:38it's either

03:40uh going north or south if it was in

03:42front of the library.

03:47So, what Flock does and doesn't do.

03:49Um

03:50A Flock

03:52camera takes a point in time picture of

03:54a vehicle traveling on a public road.

03:56All of our cameras are on public ways in

03:58the public capturing vehicles in the

04:01public on the travel.

04:03Uh on the travel portion of the way, so

04:04that on the road.

04:06Uh they capture the make, model, license

04:08plate.

04:09They support only criminal

04:10investigations or other our

04:12investigations, missing people, crimes,

04:15what have you.

04:16Um

04:17and they keep permanently a record of

04:19every search made by a member of law

04:21enforcement. So, they dump their data

04:25every 30 days,

04:26but the search search is conducted by

04:29police officers uh

04:32are are retained permanently.

04:35Um

04:36what they don't do.

04:37They have no facial or voice recognition

04:40capability.

04:41Uh they don't allow for the searching of

04:43a person, a pet, clothing type.

04:46Uh they don't connect to the registry uh

04:49or contain any information about the

04:51driver. Uh

04:53and that's what say uh I apologize.

04:54Driver of the vehicle. Uh they also

04:56don't give us the

04:58you know, the year of the vehicle. They

05:00don't give us other, you know, sub

05:02models, what have you. Uh

05:04it generates it does not generate

05:07automatic traffic enforcement tickets

05:09and it does not track the vehicle

05:10continuously.

05:11Um

05:12>> Is the camera just constantly like when

05:15you're on the pike?

05:16Uh

05:17>> So, there

05:18there is an

05:19Carl, just correct me on this. There's

05:20an algorithm built into the camera where

05:23it's not taking video, it's taking

05:24stills in a

05:26>> Actual still pictures.

05:27>> still pictures, right. There are no

05:28videos.

05:29>> So, it must

05:31happen when it

05:33So, when a vehicle is nearing. Like it's

05:36not

05:37>> taking It It can be motion or it can be

05:39a uh like a six I believe it Carl,

05:42correct me if I'm wrong. It works out to

05:44six stills per second or so.

05:45>> Okay.

05:47>> Yeah, so it's it'd be motion activated

05:49when it senses the presence of a vehicle

05:50and taking still photos.

05:52>> Thank you.

05:56>> So, assurances that Flock is made to us

06:00um

06:02for privacy protection, the data is 100%

06:05owned by the customer, in that case the

06:06town of Charlton.

06:07Um and will never be sold. Private

06:10customers don't have access to

06:12government data or hot lists, and we

06:13don't have access to their

06:15data as well.

06:16Okay?

06:17Um

06:19the Flock automatically deletes data

06:20after 30 days by default. And a Flock uh

06:24LPR only takes images of publicly

06:26available information. So, the courts

06:28have said that a vehicle on a public way

06:30is in the public view, and that's

06:33where we have our cameras positioned,

06:35and that's where we take pictures.

06:37Um

06:38and only the the agency decides uh who

06:41to share with, not Flock. And again,

06:43there's no facial recognition, and they

06:45assure us of that.

06:46>> But, what happens when they integrate

06:48with other companies that are offering

06:49that or about to offer that?

06:51>> Flock is its own independent company, it

06:53does not

06:54>> the data, though. They make it access to

06:56other They make it accessible to other

06:57companies.

06:58>> Carl, can you hear that question?

07:01>> Novimoto, for example, has promised to

07:03do facial recognition as soon as you let

07:05them or as soon as somebody's

07:06interested, wants to pay for it. I don't

07:09know if they're going to make it active,

07:10but

07:10>> Can you hear his question, Carl?

07:12>> Yeah, related to facial recognition,

07:14it's not something that we make in any

07:16of our devices. It's honestly not

07:18something our customers are asking for.

07:20Um so, it's not anything that we have or

07:23plan to do.

07:23>> Well, you know, I know there's a company

07:24actively trying to sell that service to

07:27uh different police departments across

07:29the country saying that they're going to

07:30do it. So, what's the difference if one

07:32person does it, two people do it? I

07:33don't care if it's Flock. If somebody

07:35else can do it, it's the same thing.

07:36>> We don't subscribe to them, and we

07:38wouldn't Would you agree, Chief, we

07:39wouldn't have that data?

07:41>> No, but it all goes to Flock. It's not

07:42You don't get access to it. No, that's

07:44That's a

07:45>> It's a hindrance to you cuz you can't

07:47see all of it, but they have the access.

07:49They can sell the data to whoever they

07:50want.

07:51>> They don't They assure us they don't

07:52sell that data and they don't

07:54They give us assurances in the contract

07:56that they don't do that.

07:58And that would be a breach of contract

07:59and we'd have a an action against them.

08:01>> Well, how are you ever going to know?

08:04You're not going to see it happening in

08:05San Diego. You're not going to have any

08:06You're not You're You You have other

08:07things to do.

08:08You're not going to

08:09>> Well, I mean, it Word travels fast on

08:11this stuff if

08:13if it if it came out

08:14>> enough cuz you don't seem to know about

08:15what I'm talking about.

08:16I just picked up the data off the

08:17internet 10 seconds ago and we put

08:19>> You got to be careful what you read

08:20about what you see on the internet, too.

08:21>> Oh, but these are legitimate news

08:22sources that have that

08:24>> That's

08:24>> Oh, absolutely. There's a bunch of

08:25garbage on the internet.

08:26>> I I would tell you this, though, if the

08:28data of Flock was breached, you'd get a

08:31picture of your license plate. Same

08:32thing I can walk out and take a picture

08:34of your car right now. Might show me

08:36going down the street, but it's not a

08:37person. It doesn't track a person. It

08:39tracks a vehicle type.

08:41>> Yeah, but will you promise to never tell

08:43anyone

08:43>> China would do with my license plate.

08:45>> Would you promise to never use that

08:47technology

08:47>> I don't know what China would do with my

08:48license plate. I don't know what China's

08:50going to do with that information.

08:51>> Well, they could do all sorts of stuff

08:53with your information.

08:54>> Well, I mean, what's to prevent

08:55>> happens when facial recognition

08:57recognition comes in? Japan starts to

08:58use it.

08:59>> I promise not to use it. Do you?

09:01>> Well, let's get Let's get that codified.

09:03>> It's not something we're interested in.

09:04>> It It Flock

09:05already uses facial recognition. It's

09:07fed into AI systems everywhere and you

09:10can absolutely identify people by what

09:12in the vehicle just through the ALPRs.

09:15>> Let me work through the PowerPoint and

09:16then we'll address questions. Okay?

09:19Um

09:20So,

09:21Flock data is encrypted in transit and

09:23it rests

09:25um in a line with the FBI uh

09:27uh CJIS uh system.

09:30It's uh

09:31the

09:32aligns with the National Defense

09:33Authorization Act. It's independently

09:36audited for breaches, Um and everything

09:39is aligned with international standards

09:42for data security, and

09:45there's a higher education community

09:47vendor assessment tool.

09:49Flock is also aligned with security

09:51protocols established by

09:55the NIST cybersecurity as well as the

09:56cloud security

09:58CAIQ framework, and their data is stored

10:01on the AWS government cloud.

10:07Motivators for police departments to use

10:09ALPRs: crime prevention, developing

10:11investigative intelligence, locating

10:14missing or endangered persons,

10:16recovering stolen vehicles,

10:18enhancing public safety through

10:19vehicle-based intelligence,

10:21increasing officer efficiency and to act

10:23as a force multiplier,

10:25to exonerate innocent persons, provide

10:28real-time alerts, and identify vehicles

10:30associated with wanted persons or

10:32criminal activities when they're in

10:33trouble.

10:35The addition of cameras in Charlton. The

10:38Charlton Police Department followed

10:39national trends regarding the addition

10:41of body-worn cameras and ALPRs

10:43in locating suspects or missing and

10:45endangered persons. It's estimated that

10:48approximately 70% of all investigations,

10:51whether a missing person, whether a

10:53criminal act involved a motor vehicle.

10:55Video evidence assists in fair

10:57prosecutions, police accountability,

11:00ALPR devices allow for the police to

11:03focus on real-time data.

11:05Photographic evidence and Flock images

11:07presented to jurors allow jurors the

11:08opportunity to examine the information

11:11that led police to making a conclusion

11:13regarding an investigation.

11:15Flock images also assist in the

11:17exclusion of persons unrelated to the

11:19investigation of an event.

11:24Why do we implement ALPRs?

11:28Starting increase in criminal activity

11:30and mental health events between 2020

11:32and 2023. Couple examples, bank

11:35robberies.

11:36Uh we had two bank robberies. We had

11:38several commercial, residential, and uh

11:41and commercial breaking and entering.

11:43We've had multiple motor vehicle thefts.

11:45We've had breaking and enterings into

11:46motor motor vehicles.

11:48We've had hit-and-run crashes with

11:49serious personal injury and property

11:51damage.

11:52We've seen an increase in mental

11:53health-related calls where people were

11:54reported to be in motor vehicles.

11:57We've also seen a regional crime trend

11:59uh

12:00where residents of Sharon were

12:01victimized or the individuals

12:03responsible for committing the crimes

12:05uh had ties to the area or traveling

12:07through Sharon in motor vehicles.

12:09Um these investigations um resulted in

12:12the identification and prosecution of

12:14several suspects

12:15and locating several persons in crisis.

12:17However, officers spent hundreds of

12:19hours investigating these events,

12:21eliminating uninvolved parties, and

12:23identifying evidence prior to the actual

12:25apprehension of suspects or locating an

12:27individual in crisis.

12:29In several of these instances, the loss

12:31of time impacted the investigation or

12:33locating the person

12:34who needed assistance.

12:39As a result of these investigations, the

12:41question was asked, "Can we give our

12:43officers a better tool to help prevent

12:44and solve serious crimes and locate

12:46individuals in crisis?"

12:48Um

12:49stationary cameras, everybody has them.

12:51Ring cameras.

12:53Uh um

12:54you know, you have a people have cameras

12:56fixed to their houses, businesses have

12:57cameras. There's a lot cameras

12:59everywhere we go in society. Um but a

13:02stationary camera without ALPR

13:04technology

13:06um

13:06we found them

13:08they were beneficial that they gave us a

13:10picture of a car, but they didn't give

13:11us anything else and made us reactive

13:13rather than a proactive uh police

13:15department.

13:16Uh generally, the crime occurred first.

13:19We then had to determine what camera

13:21might have caught uh captured something.

13:23And then locate the footage, review it,

13:25and try to identify a vehicle or other

13:27piece of information to advance our

13:29investigation.

13:31We were looking for technology

13:34that could efficiently help us identify

13:36a vehicle associated with a crime and

13:37determine where that vehicle may have

13:40been at a specific point in time. We

13:42also wanted the ability, when we had a

13:44specific vehicle connected with a

13:45legitimate law enforcement concern, such

13:47as a stolen car, a wanted person, a

13:49missing person, or an active

13:51investigation, to receive information

13:53that could help our officers know it was

13:54in town and locate it or determine where

13:57it was possibly headed.

14:00This would assist us in directing

14:01resources to prevent another criminal

14:03act or to locate a person in crisis so

14:06they can receive medical care or mental

14:08health services in a more timely manner.

14:13The capabilities of Flock provided this

14:15tool with the safeguards we felt were

14:17necessary regarding the information

14:18captured, the network capabilities, the

14:21data retention, and the customer

14:22service.

14:26We understand that with greater

14:27capacity, there need to be greater

14:29safeguards. So, system audits. The

14:32system can be audited at any time

14:33showing exactly what's searched and by

14:35whom, both within the department and

14:38searches conducted by other agencies.

14:40Retention rules. Flock data is

14:43secured for a maximum of 30 days,

14:45with the data being owned by the

14:46Charlton Police Department and stored on

14:48the Flock network.

14:50We have it set up so that there's no

14:51searches for immigration or reproductive

14:53rights issues. In some states, these are

14:55crimes.

14:58We don't allow searches for those

14:59reasons. They are excluded searches.

15:02Um we did this based on some positions

15:05from the ACLU in accordance with the

15:07Massachusetts Shield Law. Um

15:10and then limit data sharing. We limit

15:12our data sharing to agencies with a an

15:14investigative purpose in town.

15:17We don't just

15:19it's like group select agencies. We

15:21select

15:22for a purpose.

15:25>> How do you stop ICE from getting that?

15:27And

15:28what if the feds just want to issue

15:31>> So, if the

15:32>> request for that. I know you said you're

15:33not sharing it, but

15:34>> We don't share it.

15:34>> What stops anybody else from just

15:36logging onto cameras and looking?

15:37>> Because they are

15:39we know who is searching, the reason for

15:42their search, and it's identifiable back

15:45to a person.

15:46>> So, if the federal government could

15:47require it, and then

15:49there's no way to stop it, and we have

15:50cameras everywhere.

15:52Regardless. Like you can't You're not

15:53going to

15:54>> Well, I mean, if the federal

15:55>> If they ask for it, but they ask for all

15:56of it. Like you have

15:57>> Let me Let me finish this, and then

15:59we'll go back to that. But I'll

16:00>> All right.

16:00>> I'll keep it.

16:02So, um terms of service and data

16:05ownership. As part of the protections to

16:07ensure that the data belonging to the

16:08Charlton Police Department is properly

16:10used,

16:11um

16:12we've ensured that Flock uses the

16:14information, and it's included in the

16:16that it shall

16:17uh

16:18not include any sharing by Flock of any

16:20customer data.

16:22Flock does not own

16:23um and shall not sell any of our

16:25customer data.

16:26At the end of the retention period,

16:28Flock will delete all customer data.

16:31And civil civil, immigration, and

16:33reproductive health crimes in other

16:34states shall not constitute a risk of

16:36imminent harm, and are excluded as

16:38search reasons through the Charlton

16:40uh interface.

16:44Privacy protection should not depend on

16:46assurances and a good policy and

16:48procedure. We understand that. We have a

16:50policy um

16:52that was created

16:54directly at Flock and ALPRs for the town

16:56of Charlton.

16:57Previously, we treated Flock data as

17:00CJIS data, um which is a higher level of

17:03protection, um

17:05but it it missed some of the stuff that

17:07ALPRs

17:09uh are specific to. So, we have a CJIS

17:12policy that's still in effect, and we

17:14have an ALPR policy.

17:16Individual accountability of each

17:17officer. Officers are subject to

17:19discipline for abuse based on

17:21circumstances of the violation. Every

17:23officer, anybody that searches Flock.

17:26There's a code. Um

17:29it's assigned to every single search. We

17:31know who searched it, which agency they

17:33searched from, the time and date of the

17:35search, and what they searched.

17:38We conduct internal audits of the

17:39system.

17:40Uh we use it the AI assist function to

17:44determine other patterns. Um

17:46we've just gotten into that uh that

17:48feature.

17:49But we manually audit the the searches

17:53that are conducted.

17:54Um

17:55and then we have technology controls and

17:57contractual restrictions. Um

18:01we limit searches for certain for plates

18:04only. Um

18:06we limit searches um

18:10so that somebody has to put in a call

18:12number or and a reason why they're

18:15searching.

18:19So we've had a lot of Flock successes in

18:21Charlton.

18:22Um Michelle, one of the times she came

18:25in to speak to me, had asked and I have

18:28not gone through and just compiled a

18:29list. This took me a few days. It the

18:32chief can tell you I

18:34live with this now. But um

18:37you know, we put the the Flock cameras

18:39out and

18:41it was mentioned in a a training um that

18:44we have Flock.

18:45Within

18:47it was days of us uh having Flock

18:49cameras.

18:50Um

18:52we used the cameras to identify a double

18:54homicide suspects in Worcester who were

18:56believed to be traveling on Stafford

18:58Street back to New Jer- uh Jersey and

18:59New York.

19:00Um

19:02we quickly found a resident uh with

19:04dementia who had left their residence in

19:06a vehicle uh without a phone.

19:09Uh we have officers that have worked

19:11with the deep that work with the DEA.

19:13Um,

19:14and there was a very high-profile

19:16recent, um,

19:19drug seizure and drug prosecution at the

19:21federal level that we assisted with that

19:23had ties to Charlton in the area. Um,

19:27we assisted the Mass State Police,

19:29um,

19:30in ruling out that somebody came through

19:32Charlton, so

19:33uh, following homicide. So,

19:36like I said before, we can identify a

19:38suspect and we can also rule somebody

19:40out. Um,

19:41and that's why I included some of these

19:42things.

19:43Um,

19:44we've located people related to, uh,

19:48thefts in storage areas,

19:50um,

19:52identified suspicious, uh, suspicious

19:54people who were believed to be

19:55surveilling a residence for a breaking

19:57and entering.

19:59Um,

20:00we assisted in the identification of

20:02vehicles

20:03and suspects involved in fraud where the

20:05victims were defrauded of $21,000.

20:08Um, but you can I can just keep going

20:11through this if you want to see, but

20:12like,

20:13hit and runs,

20:15um,

20:16if we look at dumpings that have

20:17happened at the town cemetery on Route

20:1920,

20:20um,

20:21the recovery of stolen vehicles.

20:25Several property crimes have been

20:27solved. Um, again, assisting other, uh,

20:31agencies. Again, illegal tire dumping on

20:33several occasions.

20:35Um, you might not think that tire

20:36dumping is a big deal. I don't know if

20:38anybody saw the stuff at Zorba's and

20:40some of the other places.

20:41Uh, tires cost

20:43tens of thousands of dollars to remove.

20:46Um, and we were able to identify

20:47somebody off of that.

20:49Um,

20:51again, hit and runs, breaking and

20:52enterings, stolen vehicles.

20:55And these are just

20:57a snapshot of what we've used it for.

20:59Um,

21:01this is a a big one, um, in my opinion,

21:03in winter 2026. So, when you

21:07own a home or you have a mortgage or a

21:09home equity line,

21:11a lot of your data is

21:13open it's a public record.

21:15Um there are people

21:18and criminal organizations that go in

21:20and mine that data

21:23and they were writing checks against

21:24people they were

21:26timing out the payments that people had

21:27made, so they knew that on a home equity

21:30line that people had

21:32I have a $50,000 home equity line, the

21:33person's had it for so many months,

21:35they've paid it down

21:37you know, to $40,000

21:39and they were writing checks on the

21:41remaining amount that was left the line

21:43of credit. Um we had several of those

21:46here in town, several in Oxford

21:49and when we put everything together um

21:52we were able to trace from Maine to

21:54Georgia

21:55um where this crew had had defrauded

21:58people of of

22:00a significant amount of money. It to the

22:01point where we still haven't figured out

22:04exactly the total amount. It's that

22:06high.

22:07Um

22:09>> How did the cameras

22:11How did the cameras help? I mean

22:12>> So, the person drove by the library

22:13before they went to Cornerstone Bank. Um

22:16and they were wearing they were changing

22:18up their clothes, they were changing up

22:19their disguise, but a person remembered

22:21the car. Um the bank camera didn't

22:23capture

22:25the best image, the flock camera

22:26captured the best image of the car.

22:28Um and they were going from an Oxford

22:31branch to a Charlton branch and that's

22:33how they were uh

22:35identified.

22:37Um we again hit and runs, another

22:40missing elderly person.

22:44Um

22:46in the spring of this year

22:48um there was a site in Charlton that was

22:50used as what they call a cool down

22:51location for stolen cars.

22:53Um because of our location

22:56and the roads that surround us and go

22:58through us um we tend to be a hotspot

23:01for stolen cars. What they were doing is

23:04putting a car in a parking lot, letting

23:07it sit for a bit to see if it had uh

23:10telematics that if they deactivate the

23:12telematics in the car. And they were

23:15putting them in parking lots to wait and

23:16see if their telematics

23:18deactivations had worked before they

23:20moved the car somewhere else.

23:22Um

23:24we've had North Carolina

23:26uh

23:26in the spring of this year report to us

23:28a lot of stolen vehicle activity

23:30uh in Charleston.

23:32And

23:33um we've seen it used in investigations

23:36for an assault and battery with a

23:37dangerous weapon, several domestic

23:39violence cases. Um and um a stolen

23:43vehicle investigation from a commercial

23:45property with multi-state ties.

23:53Again, I did them up until fall of this

23:55year. Most recently, um we used it

23:58um a party that had made a terroristic

24:00threat to a facility here in Charleston.

24:03Um when we put the plates in the in the

24:06Flock system, we're able to show that

24:08the person was in town the night before.

24:11Um

24:12but we've got some highlights here.

24:15A lot of it is

24:18basic stuff with

24:21quality of life issues. Somebody

24:22dumping, somebody, you know, illegally

24:24dumping, somebody stealing somebody's

24:26property, somebody stealing somebody's

24:28money.

24:29Um

24:30and identifying and locating people

24:33needing help.

24:38So, these aren't just hypothetical uh

24:40hypothetical examples of what the

24:42technology might accomplish. These are

24:44real successes that the uh Charleston

24:46Police Department has had where we've

24:48solved crimes and recovered and arrested

24:50people.

24:51Um they resulted in Charleston residents

24:53and business owners being able to seek

24:55restitution for property crimes. and

24:57they've assisted in getting uh persons

24:59in crisis

25:00uh to services to assist them.

25:04This is the nuts and bolts of it, okay?

25:05This is my cruiser.

25:07Um what happens when an officer checks a

25:09plate? This is the image that you get,

25:12okay?

25:13Um I personally like this image

25:15only because certain

25:18Has anybody ever tried to use an OCR

25:19scanner on a piece of paper?

25:21Sometimes it'll juxtapose numbers,

25:23letters.

25:24My license plate has an eight and a B

25:26next to each other. It's able to

25:27identify and separate out the eight and

25:29the B.

25:30Fives on a

25:32on the Xerox copier will sometimes come

25:34up as S's, okay? It identifies a five

25:37and two more eights, and it does it

25:39successfully.

25:41I didn't pick up on that until about 2

25:43weeks ago when I was

25:44>> Do you know the rate that it picks up

25:46successful?

25:47>> We've never had a miss. We've never had

25:49a a misread.

25:52>> Out of

25:53millions of photos?

25:54>> I would say more than a half a million,

25:56if not more.

25:58>> There was a recent misread where a

25:59family was yanked from their car and

26:01held at gunpoint on the ground because

26:05an eight was a B.

26:06>> In Charlotte?

26:07>> No, not in Charlotte. But millions of

26:08reads and no misreads just in Charlotte.

26:11>> We've had no misreads in Charlotte.

26:13>> How do you know you don't have misreads?

26:14>> They pre-checked them all.

26:15>> Every time we've checked one, we've

26:17never had a misread.

26:18>> But that's only in the times you

26:19checked. I mean

26:20>> We don't have a an ability to do it

26:22otherwise.

26:23So,

26:26So, this is

26:27if we were if my cruiser is involved in

26:29a crime, this is what we would get,

26:32okay? So, it's a picture of the car, a

26:34picture of the license plate, and the

26:35location with a time and date stamp uh

26:38of where the camera was that captured

26:40it. If you look,

26:42it gives you the license plate. It tells

26:44you that it's an SUV, that it's a Chevy,

26:46and it's either silver or gray, time

26:48stamp, organization that

26:50uh looked for it. It'll look up top and

26:53it see my name at the top. So, it

26:55identifies me as the person searching

26:57it.

26:58I did this for training demonstration,

27:00so I gave the

27:01the search reasons and the case number.

27:03Um,

27:04but again, it's a device that LPR, grid

27:06coordinates, and a physical address.

27:11So, when an image is captured, the

27:13officer then must run the plate number

27:14through the CJIS system and the RMV to

27:16find out who the car is registered to.

27:18There is nothing in Flock that gives us

27:20who the car is registered to or any

27:22other details.

27:23Um,

27:24>> Except a

27:25just a search button, right?

27:27What do you mean? Just so you have to to

27:28find out the who owns it, you have to

27:30search it up. So, you have to type it in

27:32manually or

27:33>> We type it in manually.

27:34>> That's that's like six whole letters,

27:36right? It's not actually just hitting a

27:37button.

27:37>> system, though.

27:38>> system.

27:38>> Different system.

27:39>> That's also a system we've had for 40

27:41years.

27:42>> I mean, I've got CJIS. I'm not trying to

27:43accuse you guys of do of being bad or

27:46having bad or having bad intentions or

27:48whatever, right? Small town of Charlton,

27:50we're all cool, right? But

27:52it doesn't stop there. It's not that's

27:55not just you guys. You have great

27:56intentions in using this. We're nobody's

27:58saying you don't. You've done some great

28:00things with it, but

28:02where's it going? And you said you know

28:03I've committed no crimes. I mean, you

28:04violated my fourth amendment when you

28:06took a picture.

28:07>> I did violate your fourth amendment, but

28:08we'll discuss that later, okay?

28:09>> So, I I'm trying to hold them

28:11>> opposite. So, the CJIS and the RMV is

28:14also monitored and audited. So, every

28:17every search is is recorded in there as

28:19well. All right, officers must have a

28:21legitimate reason for using these

28:22systems. An officer will know um, who's

28:26won't know whose car

28:28it is unless they use the RMV. Um, these

28:31are the two ways to get a name

28:33associated with a plate. And then

28:35the hot list for people that have been

28:37entered as wanted for serious crimes,

28:41um,

28:42in NCIC,

28:44um, or for missing persons, which are

28:45also entered in NCIC.

28:48A Flock alert alone is not probable

28:50cause and requires an officer to verify

28:52the data and make independent

28:53observations what they see.

28:56If if we get a Flock alert that my car

28:59is wanted, we get behind a car, the

29:02officer

29:03is going to confirm that what they see

29:06on that plate matches what's on the

29:08Flock data. They're not going to make a

29:10stop just off the Flock alone.

29:15So, I saw this over the weekend and I

29:17added it. I don't know if anybody saw

29:18this on

29:20um

29:22on Facebook.

29:24There was a comment added to the to the

29:26Facebook post where the person had more

29:28information and I don't know how um

29:32than I had in CCHIS. Okay? And it was a

29:35publicly searchable they said it was

29:38publicly searchable. So, I Googled the

29:40license plate

29:41and I was able to find out a a lot of

29:43stuff about the motor, about um the

29:46mileage on the car, um it kind of the

29:49vehicle identification number,

29:51um

29:52and

29:53it kind of was

29:56an eye-opener to me as to what is

29:58publicly out there regarding your stuff.

30:01Um and it goes above what I have access

30:04to as a police officer. Um

30:06just off of a Google search.

30:09So, Flock audits. So, this is what an

30:11organizational audit looks like. Um

30:14if you

30:16uh

30:17search, um it'll tell you the reasons

30:20that we search, it'll tell you um who

30:24searched, it'll give you a breakdown of

30:26of times and dates of the searches as

30:28well.

30:29Oop.

30:30>> How

30:32real quick on the audits, how often

30:35are audits performed and are they

30:37standard or are they also a a audit, you

30:41know?

30:41>> So, we do an audit once a month because

30:42everything's retained.

30:43>> Okay.

30:44>> And then we do

30:46uh the AI assist will alert us to an

30:48irregular search pattern. And I can go

30:51into that one second.

30:52>> Okay.

30:53>> This is what an audit looks like. This

30:55is the ID for the search. Um

30:58the person who searched it, the network

30:59searched, date times, reason for the

31:02search.

31:03Um case numbers.

31:05Um I did block some of this stuff out

31:07because I knew we were being recorded

31:08for

31:09uh

31:10public access.

31:12Um it'll tell you the filters. It'll

31:14tell you uh the search time and the

31:17search type, okay? Um

31:19with regard to your question about

31:21audits.

31:23So, we have one audit that we identified

31:26and then

31:28it was an abnormality

31:29and

31:31the AI audit function also identified

31:33it. What it turned out to be, we looked

31:35into it, what it turned out to be is it

31:37was somebody wanted for another crime.

31:40Um

31:41they were believed to be traveling

31:43to Charlton from a neighboring

31:44community.

31:45Um an officer sitting on Route 20 where

31:47there's no flock cameras,

31:49um went to his

31:52uh MDT,

31:54the computer inside the cruiser, puts

31:56the

31:58uh license plate in there

31:59and continually hits refresh on Stafford

32:01Street because he believed, "Hey, the

32:03car

32:05laws of probability, the car's going to

32:07go down Route 20 or Stafford Street. I

32:08can sit on Route 20 and with my eyes

32:10look, but I can't be in two places at

32:12the same time and I can see if that car

32:14is going to go by

32:15um

32:17on Stafford Street."

32:18Because he kept hitting refresh every

32:20minute,

32:21um it identified a pattern that, "Hey,

32:23he's repetitively searching this plate.

32:25Why is he repetitively searching this

32:27plate?" And then we were able to see,

32:29"Oh, there was a an incident in another

32:31community

32:32uh related to that vehicle."

32:38So, we also

32:39retain these um

32:42It's the same information in the last

32:43screen, but in Excel spreadsheet so that

32:45we can retain this information, get it

32:48in a a usable format that

32:50um that we can use. The biggest use for

32:53this, in in all honesty, is that

32:56somebody misuses Flock.

32:58Okay? If an officer if we determine that

33:01an officer misused Flock, this is the

33:03evidence that we would

33:04uh discipline them or take action with.

33:07Um

33:09that's what this is is in there for.

33:14So, where we place cameras and why.

33:16Flock cameras are run on solar power

33:18utilizing a secure wireless connection.

33:21So, we need sunlight and we need a cell

33:23connection. There are certain areas of

33:25town that

33:26that's not possible. So, we can't we

33:28can't use them.

33:30All right? We base the location on where

33:32we had seen trends in travel following

33:34investigations, of course in accordance

33:37with building codes, other regulations,

33:39and where we could get cells uh

33:41consistent cell service, and sun.

33:44We have four cameras right now. Route

33:45169 on Southbridge Road, Main Street in

33:48front of the library, Stafford Street at

33:50Route 20, and Stafford Street at

33:52Northside Road.

33:53Stafford Street is a very busy

33:56road for criminal activity. Just

33:59>> Are there a lot more that

34:01are going to be planned at this point?

34:03>> We have put a hold on everything right

34:05now, um but we did purchase we did enter

34:08into an agreement to purchase four more.

34:11Um but we have not installed them, we've

34:12not received them, and

34:14we agreed to put those on hold, and

34:16we hold true to our word.

34:17>> Curious if the the funding for the

34:19cameras, their upkeep, and the program

34:21comes from the police budget or the town

34:22budget?

34:23>> Comes from the police budget.

34:24>> Comes from the police budget.

34:25>> Yeah.

34:26>> When were the When How long have the

34:28cameras been installed?

34:30>> So, we entered into an agreement in '23.

34:33>> Okay.

34:33>> They were installed in

34:36uh

34:37between the fall of '24

34:40and the uh

34:42early part of '25. So,

34:45this is a video from Flock just to give

34:48you an idea of what Flock

34:49>> Ashley.

34:50I build software at Flock.

34:52You've probably heard of license plate

34:54readers and thought surveillance.

34:57I understand why it feels that way.

34:59But, that's not what we do.

35:01License plate readers take images of

35:03vehicles. Flock LPR is used after a

35:05crime happens.

35:07Things like stolen cars, hit-and-runs, a

35:10missing person.

35:12An officer can search for a specific

35:13vehicle tied to that case.

35:16The LPR system doesn't track people, and

35:18it doesn't predict when crime will

35:20happen. You can only search for vehicles

35:22on our LPR cameras.

35:24License plates, make, model, color, and

35:28other unique identifiers like bike

35:30racks, trailers, and toolboxes.

35:32There's no facial recognition and no

35:34ability to track a person. In most

35:37communities, the data automatically

35:38deletes after 30 days unless local laws

35:41require something different. The data

35:43collected doesn't live forever. Flock is

35:45built to help solve crimes faster and

35:48protect people's privacy. When you hear

35:50Flock LPR search, you may imagine some

35:53open, unrestricted database. Here's what

35:56the license plate reader search process

35:58actually looks like. The Flock system

36:00has built-in safety guardrails that

36:02limit who can access our tools.

36:04Law enforcement agencies also set rules

36:07based on their own policies. When an

36:09investigator is working on a specific

36:11case,

36:12say a kidnapping,

36:14they enter the offense type, case

36:16number,

36:17why they're searching, and narrow it

36:19down to a time and a place. Flock

36:21requires users to log why they're

36:23running an LPR search. If there's a

36:25match, the LPR search helps them figure

36:28out which car was there.

36:30And it does not give law enforcement any

36:32information on who was in that car,

36:35either the driver or any passengers.

36:37That's it.

36:38A focused tool to solve real cases.

36:41That means missing people come home

36:42faster,

36:44more justice for victims, and overall

36:46better safety for everyone. A fair

36:48question we get a lot.

36:50How do police chiefs, law enforcement

36:52leaders, and elected officials

36:55know what officers are doing in the

36:56Flock system? First, every search and

36:59sharing request is logged.

37:02Every search records who ran it, when,

37:05and why. Agency administrators can run

37:08audits to identify any searches that

37:10don't match normal casework.

37:12Agencies also own and control all of

37:14their data. Each law enforcement agency

37:16decides if and how they share their

37:19data, unless laws and policies dictate

37:21otherwise. Agencies can approve or deny

37:24data access requests from other law

37:26enforcement agencies on a one-on-one

37:28basis or by geographic radius. Some

37:30agencies will choose to join statewide

37:33or nationwide sharing networks where

37:35possible, and that's their choice.

37:37It's never auto-approved, and they can

37:39change the setting at any time. Flock is

37:41designed to provide evidence with

37:43transparency and accountability built in

37:46because we believe everyone has a right

37:48to be safe.

37:54>> Tell us if you've opted for statewide or

37:56nationwide or whom.

37:58>> We do selective, uh, we individually

38:01search, uh, individually approve every

38:03single one.

38:04>> Okay. So, there's no open sharing

38:06platform with any other agencies in the

38:07state?

38:09>> It's not open like

38:11>> We have 1,100 agreements open currently.

38:13>> 1,100 agreements.

38:14>> 1,109.

38:16>> You just basically said we don't.

38:19>> No, I said we don't we don't just open

38:21it up to everybody. We individually

38:23approve over the past 3 years requests.

38:27>> Sorry for

38:28I'll rephrase myself. Out of the 1,109,

38:32do they have open access or is each

38:34request individual for any data search?

38:38>> So they're limited we limit them to a

38:41uh

38:42vehicle search for plates only. No other

38:45analytic data or anything else.

38:47>> Such as what Charlton does itself, you

38:49said, yeah?

38:49>> I can show you that later. Um

38:52>> Just curious, sorry.

38:53>> No, that's fine.

38:53>> There's a lot to take in, so I questions

38:55are going to be difficult to follow.

38:57>> with you, that's why I handed out slips.

38:59If you if you have a At the end, I'll

39:01give you my email address if something

39:02comes up.

39:03You can

39:04>> Are those mostly local jurisdictions

39:07that we're talking

39:07>> A lot of them are local jurisdictions,

39:08but I'll explain it in a little bit.

39:10>> Okay.

39:11>> Um

39:12So the Charlton Police Department

39:14regularly assesses the value of the

39:15Flock product. Um and to see that it

39:18serves a legitimate public safety uh

39:21purpose here.

39:22We also ensure privacy protection,

39:24access limits, retention rules, and

39:26accountability standards are being met.

39:28Um

39:30We've seen that it's materially assisted

39:31us in in public safety objectives,

39:34solving crime, finding people.

39:37Um

39:38We've documented public safety outcomes

39:40um to justify the financial cost of the

39:42system.

39:44Um

39:45We've

39:46checked on policy, privacy issues,

39:49access, retention, and other violations.

39:52And if so, we're committed to taking

39:54corrective action on it.

39:56Um

39:57We've ensured that and checked to see

39:59that the limitation on data retention,

40:01information sharing, authorized access,

40:03and permissible uses remains appropriate

40:06and

40:06uh sufficient in accordance with changes

40:09in the laws.

40:10We've also checked on the vendor's

40:11contract terms, their data practices,

40:13system capabilities,

40:15and their proposed features that they've

40:17met

40:18um or that they require further review.

40:22We also look to see about additional

40:24privacy and any civil liberty laws,

40:27any technological issues, training,

40:29supervisor protections are needed based

40:31on the changes to the laws or other

40:33identified issues.

40:34We've also looked at the number of

40:37cameras we have, the placement, the

40:38deployment, and make sure that they

40:40relate to a

40:42public safety need.

40:43Um

40:45And we we assess whether the program

40:46should be continued, modified, reduced,

40:48or suspended.

40:49>> Is the police department the only

40:51units that have access to this

40:54information

40:55in terms of like it's not available to

40:59different town

41:00uh

41:01>> Like other town departments?

41:03>> No, just the Yes, other town

41:05departments.

41:06>> No, it's it's it's a

41:07It's Chelmsford Police Department owns

41:09the cameras and the data.

41:10>> Okay.

41:10>> Now, just to follow up with that,

41:13there's private individuals that could

41:14purchase a camera and they would get

41:16pictures of you know, if you're a

41:18business and you want to know who's

41:19coming in at what hours of the night. It

41:21I mean, there's nothing that prevents a

41:23private citizen from purchasing a camera

41:25privately.

41:26I mean, again, it's just going to show

41:27pictures and plates. They wouldn't have

41:29the ability to run the plate like the

41:30police would.

41:31>> But I can't speak for what private

41:33businesses do.

41:34>> And they don't have access

41:35>> 1,109 agencies as well do have access.

41:39The answer sounded like it's just

41:41Chelmsford, but there's also at least

41:431,109 agencies that have access. And and

41:46I can buy access to over 70

41:50police networks in Massachusetts for

41:52under $1,300.

41:56I would never do that, but that is under

41:58the radar, but absolutely

42:00>> I

42:01Yeah, so

42:02>> Why is Flock valuable to us in summary,

42:04okay? Faster investigative intelligence.

42:07It identifies vehicles quickly, turns

42:09the camera footage like a still image

42:12into something that we can work with.

42:14Um we've shown that it has proven public

42:16safety results. It's supported arrests,

42:18warrants, stolen vehicles, and the

42:20recovery of of at-risk juveniles and

42:23at-risk seniors.

42:25Better decisions, not just arrests. It

42:27helps us resolve misunderstandings and

42:29show when a vehicle was not involved.

42:32I'm going to bring up the bank robberies

42:33as a as an example, okay?

42:36We were given

42:38just multiple descriptions of cars, we

42:39were given multiple descriptions of

42:42plates, and what have you.

42:44It took us

42:45I was involved in it personally, it took

42:46us hundreds of hours

42:48to rule out junk, okay? When we could

42:51have been focusing on the the one person

42:54who was responsible.

42:56Um

42:57and

42:59some of these people

43:00had

43:02criminal histories related to robberies

43:04and related to other violent crimes, so

43:06you have to look at them.

43:07Um

43:08this system would have ruled them out,

43:10okay?

43:11Um and there are safeguards built into

43:13the program. We have a 30-day retention,

43:15we conduct audits, we limit sharing, we

43:18have data controls, and we review the

43:19system.

43:20Um

43:21that is it for my

43:23uh presentation.

43:25Um

43:26Karl uh Bock from Flock is on the Zoom

43:31right now. If you did have a question

43:33related to Flock corporate level,

43:36um

43:37you could address it to him, and then

43:39I'll stay and answer questions

43:41afterwards for whatever you need.

43:43So.

43:45Does anybody have a question for

43:47>> I did.

43:47>> Okay.

43:48>> a question for Karl.

43:49Um

43:51we talked about that

43:53the data is

43:55around for 30 days.

43:58My question is is it like

44:01January 1st to January 30th, and then on

44:04January 31st it gets dumped,

44:06or is it

44:08every day

44:10if something is 30 days or older, it

44:14rolls off?

44:16>> If it's 30 days or older, it rolls off

44:18is my understanding. Is that correct,

44:19Carl?

44:20>> That That's correct. It's a good

44:22question, and I think the best way to

44:23understand it is the moment a photo is

44:25taken, it's given an expiration date of

44:28when it should be deleted, and that

44:29happens automatically almost to the

44:31second to ensure that it's gone forever

44:34and it cannot be recovered.

44:37>> Carl, I have a question.

44:40Could you tell us, or do you have an

44:42idea how many accounts have been sold on

44:45the dark web, and perhaps what they've

44:47been used to access and and do?

44:49Can you give us any ideas on on the the

44:51downside, the negative sides of Flock as

44:53an entity?

44:55And and also, before I forget, um

44:59how many

45:00jurisdictions have I understand that

45:04privacy is not

45:06explicitly stated in the Fourth

45:09Amendment, but rights to a secure and

45:12you know,

45:13this How many federal agencies, how many

45:16federal

45:17have

45:18banned Flock for that reason, Fourth

45:20Amendment violations?

45:23>> Great. So, for the for the first

45:25question on cybersecurity and dark web,

45:27I'm not aware of access

45:30being able to be purchased through any

45:32kind of like nefarious actor. I but I

45:34will say this is a really serious and

45:36important cybersecurity question. We

45:38have mandated

45:40multi-factor authentication for each

45:42user in your department and all across

45:45the all across departments that use this

45:48to ensure that it's being accessed

45:49securely using best practices by

45:52by only authorized users.

45:54I will also say, you know, Lieutenant

45:57mentioned a lot of the cybersecurity

45:59audits.

46:00We just recently uh to conduct a

46:02third-party penetration test uh with a

46:04cybersecurity firm called Bishop Fox. Uh

46:07they were charged with being adversarial

46:09to try to penetrate looking for

46:11vulnerabilities in our software, in our

46:13hardware, in our cloud database, to

46:15identify any vulnerabilities so we can

46:17ensure that this information's being uh

46:20securely maintained. Um,

46:22so it's something that we need to be

46:23vigilant on as we know bad actors are

46:25going to be vigilant about that as well.

46:27Um, to your your second question about

46:30kind of the the legal landscape that

46:31we're in and how the courts have viewed

46:33the use of LPR um in Massachusetts but

46:36all across the country. You know, we've

46:38had more than 40 court cases uh that

46:40have shown that uh use of LPR

46:43information is consistent with the

46:45Fourth Amendment and in Massachusetts

46:47consistent with Article 14. Um, most

46:50recently in August uh there was a case

46:52um related to uh Commonwealth v. Saxon

46:56uh

46:56where a Superior Court judge ruled that

46:59um this the evidence gathered by LPR

47:02camera uh was uh allowed for the

47:05investigation of a of a of a homicide.

47:08Um,

47:08you know, as the courts continue to um

47:11you know, take these cases, you know,

47:12we're going to you know, make changes if

47:14we need to to stay consistent with state

47:16law. But um you know, as Lieutenant

47:18mentioned, the cameras are capturing uh

47:21an image in plain view literally looking

47:23for a government-issued document the

47:25license plate that has to be displayed

47:27on the rear of a vehicle um while

47:29traveling on a public road. Um, and

47:31because the there's limits to the time

47:34um

47:35and location. You know, these are fixed

47:36locations, the data is permanently

47:39deleted after the retention period, the

47:41courts have ruled that this is

47:42consistent with constitutional

47:43protections.

47:44>> Hey Carl, um if you're very familiar

47:47with all the

47:48uh cases that ruled them constitutional,

47:51I'm sure you're aware of the recent case

47:52in Oklahoma that ruled them

47:54unconstitutional under the Fourth

47:56Amendment at the federal level. Um

47:58wondering what your position is on that

48:01case as well. Um cuz they called out

48:04Flock specifically.

48:07>> Yeah, it's it's a more recent case that

48:08I'm not as familiar with. Um I will say

48:11that you know the the overwhelming

48:13jurisprudence on this at different

48:15levels of the courts have found this to

48:17be consistent with Fourth Amendment

48:18protections. And were that to change, we

48:21would we would make modifications to

48:23make sure that this is a tool that's um

48:25consistent with Fourth Amendment and uh

48:27protections from the Article 14.

48:30>> Could you could you tell us uh the four

48:32cameras we have and the two cameras that

48:34we have on order?

48:35Um I've seen several descriptions on how

48:37to hack it with the 3-second press of

48:39the button on the back of the camera.

48:41Are our cameras in town protected

48:43against that or are there any updates to

48:44the software that make it so anybody

48:47can't just go up there in then 5 seconds

48:49hack the cameras?

48:51>> Yeah, it's a good question and we're

48:53we're constantly pushing updates just

48:55like, you know, your your cell phone

48:56receives over-the-air updates to improve

48:59security

48:59>> Could I get a yes or no

49:00answer on that by any chance?

49:03Yes, our cameras are safe or or

49:06can our cameras be hacked with the

49:073-second button

49:08press?

49:09>> Yes, your camera your cameras are safe.

49:11>> our cameras are safe and cannot be

49:13hacked by a 3-second button press?

49:16>> Uh that's that's correct.

49:17>> Okay.

49:19Thank you.

49:20>> What does the green light do on so?

49:23Sorry.

49:24>> Uh how many Do you know how many uh

49:26currently installed roughly across the

49:28country? I've heard numbers from like

49:29100,000 to 300,000.

49:32Uh and how many different agencies are

49:35there that that would have that access

49:37across the country?

49:39>> Yeah, I've I've seen I've seen a variety

49:41of numbers. I I think the number that

49:43was consistently reported is 120,000

49:46across 6,000 um communities across the

49:49country. We're operating in in 49

49:51states. Um but your your current

49:54deployment is the the four the four LPR

49:56cameras

49:58that are fixed to poles.

49:59>> How many clients do you have? How many

50:01different agencies are out there that

50:03would potentially

50:04>> Oh.

50:05>> Uh so

50:05>> That's not a question I get a lot. I

50:06know I know that for the law enforcement

50:08side it's it's 6,000 law enforcement

50:10agencies across the United States. Um

50:13having said that, you know, we mentioned

50:14that there's you know, a possibility for

50:16private contractors to to contract with

50:19Flock. So the the origin of the business

50:21is actually a homeowners association

50:23tool.

50:25Uh uh there's a

50:26series of break-ins in a suburb of

50:28Atlanta and the the cameras were created

50:31to give law enforcement a way to to

50:33investigate those crimes. Uh so

50:35homeowners associations are uh you know,

50:38entities we contract with, you know, big

50:39box retail as they um

50:42looked for evidence to investigate um

50:44organized retail theft. Um

50:47and as we said, you know, if they choose

50:49to, those private entities can share

50:51their network with local with their

50:52local law enforcement to aid in

50:54investigations. That's their choice. Uh

50:56but those those um those private

50:58contractors or private entities, uh they

51:00don't receive any of the hot list that

51:02we described earlier. So they wouldn't

51:03see an Amber Alert or a Silver Alert. Uh

51:06but they can

51:07grant permission to local law

51:08enforcement to conduct an investigation

51:10if there's, you know, a burglary or

51:13or an

51:14organized theft.

51:15>> But it all feeds into Flock, right?

51:17Everybody feeds into the major Flock

51:19databases.

51:21Obviously Flock has access to all to all

51:23of them. 6,000 or 10,000, how many

51:25clients you have. It all goes straight

51:27to you and then is

51:29you delete it in 30 days?

51:32>> So it's deleted from the the Amazon Web

51:33Service GovCloud automatically after 30

51:36days. And as they all sharing decisions

51:38are by the customer. So some some

51:41agencies choose not to share at all.

51:43Some share choose to share regionally,

51:45statewide, or nationally depending on

51:47their local policy and state law. That's

51:49something that's can be changed anytime

51:51by the customer and not by Flock.

51:54And we think that that local control to

51:56customize, you know, how you want to aid

51:58a neighboring jurisdiction investigation

52:01is really powerful.

52:02>> But but that that Lieutenant That data

52:04has been Flock has that data. Does Flock

52:07as an entity delete that data every 30

52:10days or does it have have hold on to it

52:11for over a year as stated by Flock

52:14itself?

52:16>> So so contractually it's set for a

52:19permanent deletion by the customer. So

52:21it's gone forever. Flock doesn't have

52:23access to it. It's gone.

52:25Jurisdictions can choose their retention

52:27level. So for example, New Jersey by

52:29state law has a 3-year retention period.

52:31Virginia by law, those photos have to be

52:35deleted after 21 days. So state law and

52:38local practice can dictate that as well

52:40as local policy.

52:41>> But aren't they on a cloud server?

52:44>> On the On the Amazon Web Service Cloud,

52:46yes. And that's where they're scheduled

52:48for permanent deletion after the

52:50retention period expires.

52:52The The only way to retain it would be

52:54if it's downloaded for evidence in a

52:57trial, and then it would follow and then

52:59it comes off the Flock, you know, the

53:01the the PDF Lieutenant showed is that

53:04that download. That would follow the

53:06regular courts evidentiary retention and

53:08then be eligible for discovery or

53:10whatever is required for a court.

53:13>> A quick question to the Lieutenant.

53:15>> I'm going to If Does anybody else have

53:17questions for Carl?

53:18>> I I have a question. Yes, so my question

53:21is has Flock ever been hacked?

53:26>> It's a good It's a good question. So our

53:28our our Amazon Cloud

53:30system has never been breached. There

53:33have been limited instances where an

53:35individual camera was accessed and some

53:37of the data that's temporarily stored

53:40before it's sent to the cloud was

53:41accessed,

53:43but that's a limited um limited example.

53:46It it literally could be you know the

53:48same thing you or I could witness at a

53:49busy intersection as we're taking

53:50photos.

53:52That breach, you know, has been you know

53:54identified and mitigated, but at no

53:57point was the larger cloud

53:59infrastructure or

54:01what was was breached or hacked. It's

54:03something that we are constantly trying

54:05to stay vigilant on. We recently

54:08announced a bug bounty program for

54:11ethical hackers. If they were to

54:13identify a vulnerability, they can

54:14report it to us and get credit for for

54:17finding a flaw.

54:18We think that this is something that's

54:20really important that we need to stay

54:21up on.

54:22>> Is it true that a hacker was the one who

54:24actually pointed out the vulnerabilities

54:27to you?

54:29>> In some in some

54:31some of those cases

54:31>> blog post that was brought to federal

54:33court. Is that true? Are you

54:37>> You guys are full of

54:39>> Just

54:40Yeah.

54:41>> So, I I like to follow up on the

54:43>> Maybe maybe

54:44>> I'd like to follow up on the

54:45>> closing I can just say

54:47>> But

54:47>> Yeah.

54:48>> I'd like to follow up on

54:49>> Maybe in closing I I can just say that

54:51the the couple of examples I'll send you

54:54>> Carl, there's one gentleman in the back

54:55that's been trying to ask a question.

54:56>> Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

54:58>> So, just to follow up

54:59Yeah, I'm under the impression that

55:01Amazon's

55:03cloud services are pretty secure.

55:06But there was an article

55:08about Ledyard, Connecticut. You know,

55:10there's a casino in Ledyard. Maybe

55:12you've heard of it before.

55:14So, actually there are multiple articles

55:16about this. So, it's not just one news

55:18source.

55:19Uh basically it was Flock warns

55:21Connecticut police about security

55:23breach.

55:26Um and the records involved camera

55:29locations, camera

55:31and and other Flock devices, you know,

55:33like the type of device whether it's

55:35camera, Raven, microphone, whatever.

55:39And it's on a national scale, but for

55:40some reason this article said they

55:42warned Connecticut police. I'm not sure

55:43if they warned Massachusetts police,

55:45too, but

55:46this was apparently a big deal down the

55:48road in Ledyard.

55:50And they canceled their contract. Um

55:54I've seen

55:55the website that they referred to in

55:57this article, and it's on a national

55:59scale.

56:00You can see all the cameras in the

56:01entire country.

56:03And a bunch of those cameras

56:05>> It was referred to as a security breach.

56:06So, data breach, security breach,

56:08whatever.

56:09I don't know if it had to do with the

56:10Amazon cloud, but it was called a

56:12security breach.

56:15>> Yeah, that there's an there's an ongoing

56:17investigation, law enforcement

56:18investigation on that. Um I will say

56:20that the uh

56:22the Amazon Web Services Cloud uh was not

56:26accessed or breached. Um camera

56:28locations are something that we talked

56:30about tonight. These are devices that

56:32are in plain view. Um a lot of crowd

56:34sourcing has identified the locations of

56:37these these devices in the in the

56:39community. So, um

56:40>> I've heard that they're trying to make

56:41>> to answer your question, the the the

56:43Amazon uh Web Services

56:44>> to make it illegal to have something

56:46trying to trying to make it illegal to

56:47deploy

56:47>> to that. Just

56:48let

56:49>> Let Let the guy finish what

56:50>> Just let him finish answering his

56:51question.

56:52>> All right.

56:53>> Correct. Yeah, the the the cloud

56:54database was not breached.

56:59>> I have a question regarding the actual

57:00hardware.

57:02Uh we have Falcon. Is that the model we

57:05have?

57:05>> That's what we have, Falcon.

57:06>> Okay. Yes. Okay. Now, our Falcons we

57:09we're using them as just a

57:12plate reader.

57:13Is there any chance that

57:16the capabilities of that Falcon camera

57:19can be changed or upgraded to do facial

57:23voice recognition or

57:25is that hardware set? If there's a

57:27software update, can does it have more

57:29capabilities?

57:32>> So, the to answer your question, the we

57:35sell a single-purpose tool. That's the

57:37the LPR camera that takes the still

57:39video still photo of the rear exterior

57:42of the vehicle.

57:44Um it does, as we discussed, uh identify

57:47the state and license plate um

57:49information from the vehicle. It also

57:51looks for key vehicle characteristics,

57:53make, model, and color. So, that's kind

57:55of the enhancement of that. Um and I

57:58think the reason that's important and

57:59was mentioned a couple of times with the

58:01with a hit-and-run investigation, for

58:02example, the you know, the pedestrian

58:04struck by a vehicle, um it's unlikely

58:07that they'll have the confidence to

58:09remember the exact license plate, but

58:11with make, model, and color, they can

58:13give that to a detective to aid in the

58:15investigation to determine, you know,

58:16that you know, a suspect vehicle

58:18associated with that crime. So, it it is

58:20more than a just a license plate reader.

58:22It does look at the uh the exterior of

58:24the vehicle. Uh that can provide

58:26actionable investigative lead for for

58:29you know, justice

58:30>> for victims and to

58:31to help investigations.

58:32>> I understand that, but my question was,

58:35is there a possibility of increased

58:38um capabilities of the actual cameras

58:40that we own upon software upgrade?

58:46>> I I I can say for facial recognition,

58:47there's no way. Uh that's not something

58:49that we're interested in pursuing. Our

58:51customers aren't asking for it. Um at

58:53the point there is any kind of like

58:55additional software or additional

58:56devices that your you know, jurisdiction

58:59wishes to purchase, that would be an

59:01additional purchasing agreement that you

59:03would have to enter into.

59:05>> And they don't have facial recognition

59:07or voice recognition capability,

59:09correct?

59:10>> Correct. Yes.

59:11>> a software update.

59:12>> Even the hardware does not allow that,

59:14correct?

59:16>> We We do not do facial recognition. Uh

59:19the cameras are cameras. They wouldn't

59:20be able to do

59:22voice recognition.

59:23>> No, no. We know that it's It's doing it.

59:26Is it capable of doing that? Is it

59:29capable of upgrading with software

59:31upgrade?

59:32>> There's other companies offering to

59:34integrate all the information, so Flock

59:35keeps their hands clean and say they

59:37doesn't do facial recognition and they

59:39probably never will, but the Dizzimo

59:41promises that they can and they're

59:42actively getting people they're actively

59:44recruiting different police

59:47organizations to say, "Yeah, we want

59:48it." and then they'll finish developing

59:50it and sell it. So, what's up with all

59:52these Flock license plate readers in

59:54parks and playgrounds and places where

59:57there aren't license plates?

59:58>> Carl.

59:58>> What what what is the what are those?

60:00>> I just want to make sure you have a

60:01question. Carl, the Falcon does not have

60:04the capability

60:05the hardware does not have the

60:07capability for voice or facial

60:09recognition, correct?

60:10>> Ever.

60:10>> Correct.

60:11>> But the photos could be used by another

60:13company to accomplish the exact same

60:15thing.

60:15>> but not this.

60:17>> Carl, the face.

60:18>> Hold on one second. We have one more.

60:19So, do the Falcon model cameras can that

60:23feed into the Flock free form software

60:26that allows like a search by clothing?

60:29Like Flock's own website has like this

60:32example of searching for a man in a camo

60:33hat and a forest green sweater. Can the

60:36Falcon model cameras provide detail like

60:38that? The images look very clear

60:41contrary to a previous meeting that

60:43we've had where

60:45either the select board or officers here

60:47said they were not very clear photos,

60:49but they're very clear. So, do those

60:50cameras feed into that Flock software

60:53system and allow for this type of

60:54search?

60:57>> So, for LPR and for the Falcons, you

60:59cannot search for any

61:02person or person characteristics.

61:05We do sell like live video camera and we

61:08do offer software upgrades for for for

61:11live video.

61:12That's that's an option that you've

61:14chosen not to take, but no, the the

61:16Falcon cannot be used to search for

61:18human people characteristics. It's

61:20literally like plastic and metal.

61:22The exterior of the vehicle and

61:24attributes related to that.

61:26>> How long do these cameras last? Like

61:28when will they need to be replaced?

61:30We've already had them installed for a

61:31couple years. We're assuming at some

61:33point when there's better technology we

61:34might want to upgrade. I mean I would

61:36upgrade.

61:38>> So we upgrade on a lease subscription

61:40model.

61:41So it's a fully inclusive lease. Each

61:43camera is $3,000 for a year. That

61:45includes all the cloud storage,

61:48number of authorized users,

61:50and and periodic upgrades. So at the end

61:52of your contract if you choose to renew,

61:55you we'd want to make sure that you have

61:56the most up-to-date device on the pole.

62:00You know, I talked to you know, police

62:02chiefs all the time and they say there's

62:04there's a room in every police station

62:06where there's just all the old

62:07antiquated printers and technology

62:09that's out of step. So by you

62:11contracting with us with a lease

62:12subscription, you we're making sure that

62:15the device on the pole is up-to-date and

62:17accurate.

62:18>> So you So So part of our $3,000 a year

62:22gets an upgrade when it's available or

62:23when the camera runs out? Like how soon

62:26do we have to replace them?

62:28But I I missed I didn't

62:29>> Yeah, I mean that like

62:30>> We're going to replace

62:31>> That that would replace them. Or we're

62:32going to run them until they die and

62:33then replace them once they're

62:35>> Yeah, that that would come up in your

62:36renewal conversation to determine the

62:38state of the device and what's available

62:40to make sure that you're you know,

62:43using the best technology available.

62:45But

62:46maintenance and

62:48upkeep that's all included with the

62:51with the subscription model.

62:55>> Does anybody else have any questions for

62:56One more in the back.

62:58>> Yeah, so I have a question. Would you be

63:00able to tell us about the I think it's a

63:02software product called OS Investigate

63:06by Flock?

63:10>> Yeah, so we we have a number of hardware

63:12and software device

63:13packages. This is a tool that you've

63:16chosen not to pursue.

63:18Um,

63:19just like the live video camera or drone

63:21or the other kind of software

63:23enhancements. Um, the OS investigate is

63:26a additional

63:28uh software purchase that um brings

63:30together different amounts of

63:32information that's already available uh

63:34to local law enforcement to help with

63:36the investigation.

63:37>> Can you be a little more specific about

63:39that? Like give an example of its use.

63:46>> Oh, yeah. It's not something that I'm

63:48really well versed in. I'm happy to

63:50follow up or provide more information on

63:52our website about the capability. Um,

63:54you know, we were looking at uh

63:55presenting on the technology that you

63:57have tonight in your community and and

64:00not something that you decided not to

64:01purchase.

64:03But I there's information on the

64:04website, I'm sure.

64:06>> Just one small thing. Uh Pearl

64:10the cloud storage, because, you know,

64:13the data belongs to Charlton only.

64:16Uh

64:18how frequently are backups done? I mean,

64:20is it like a daily backup of everything?

64:22And as are the backups of our data

64:25separate from anybody else?

64:28And how many backups occur?

64:32>> I don't I'm not aware of any backup. It

64:34I mean, the the system is designed so

64:36that when the retention period expires,

64:38that data in its entirety is permanently

64:41and irrevocably gone. So, I

64:45That I mean, that's that's the way the

64:46system is designed so that you know,

64:48when when we we say it's gone off the

64:50Amazon web service cloud, it's gone

64:52forever.

64:54>> But I have a question. But what happens

64:56I have a question.

64:56>> We have one last question in the corner

64:58here.

64:59>> How does it work though if you every 30

65:01days this data is

65:04disappears, okay?

65:06But then the crime happens and then your

65:09court system or your lawyers need to

65:11find what happened on this day what 3

65:14years ago?

65:15How does Flock help you with the

65:16investigation if all that data is

65:19deleted?

65:20>> So, if

65:21>> Does that make sense?

65:22>> On our end?

65:23>> Yeah.

65:23>> That's Carl touched on a minute ago. If

65:26we had a specific vehicle, we download

65:29that that instance for that vehicle to

65:32preserve for evidence.

65:35But, if we were looking at if you were

65:38come home from Florida

65:40and you report, "Hey, my house was

65:41broken into." And you realize it's 60

65:43days ago. We're kind of out of luck

65:45because that 30-day window and we've

65:48tried to

65:49we've tried to get beyond it to see if

65:52we could and we can't. Like, we've had

65:55no success in doing that.

65:57Yes.

65:58>> And that's So, it helps if we know

66:00there's a crime that occurred cuz then

66:01we can save the data.

66:03But, if we don't know a crime, then we

66:05wait 15 45 days and we

66:07miss that opportunity and that's the

66:09problem. With something that's not

66:11immediately reported. But, if there was,

66:13you know, what to Anthony's point, we

66:14could retain something if we knew it was

66:16a stolen car, we could say, "Hey, this

66:18went by here. We don't know where it

66:20went, but it went by at 2:00 in the

66:22afternoon." We could save that because

66:24we know there's a crime of a stolen car.

66:26But, we couldn't do it 6 months from

66:28now.

66:28>> Right.

66:29>> That data would be It could have driven

66:30by at 2:00, but we won't know.

66:33>> Yeah, that's where I thought it would

66:34be. I know it's a helpful tool for you

66:36guys, but then I'm thinking, "Well, if

66:38it gets deleted every 30 days and

66:41something happens 3 years ago, how do

66:43you

66:43>> Yeah, it's not going to help us.

66:45It's not crystal ball. It's not going to

66:47help us 3 years ago. It's not. It's But,

66:49if we know about a crime right now, we

66:51could certainly save that data.

66:53>> Right.

66:54>> We can download that data and save that

66:56data.

66:57Um like we would with anything else

66:59like, so. Um you know, somebody could

67:02have a warrant today,

67:05clear it tomorrow, the case still goes

67:07to court, and we retain a copy of the

67:09warrant.

67:09>> You see that the officers wear body worn

67:11cameras?

67:13I'm not wearing one, so I can't point to

67:14it. He said not wearing one right at the

67:15moment, but you'll see the uniformed

67:17officers are usually wearing a body worn

67:19camera.

67:20They have to record in each interaction,

67:22and there's a time frame like if hey,

67:24this was just a

67:25uh a nonsense thing, we had a

67:26conversational, that might get deleted,

67:28you know, random yeah or something.

67:31However, because is there's only so much

67:32storage in the cloud that we can

67:34utilize.

67:35But if somebody said, "Oh my god, this

67:37was a you know, this guy hit so-and-so

67:39with a bat." They watched it, they would

67:40definitely save that, they'd label it so

67:43that it would retain longer because

67:45that's an actual crime and not a simple

67:47conversation.

67:49Does anybody else have any questions for

67:50Carl, or are we good? Thanks, Carl.

67:52>> I never got a description of what

67:53happens at the playground and why you

67:54got cameras there.

67:55>> I'm sorry, say that again?

67:56>> I never found out why there's flock

67:57cameras at playgrounds when there's not

67:59>> Oh, well, that depends.

68:00>> I I couldn't answer that. Carl, could

68:02you?

68:04>> Is it Is this like a camera you deploy

68:06to a

68:07playground or is it

68:08>> we only have four public ways. We only

68:10have four, there's 120 or 300,000 if you

68:13want to be honest, installed already

68:15across the country. So, one of those

68:17other ones.

68:18>> Are there not any installed at It

68:19weren't you giving a demo Somebody was

68:21giving demonstrations at a gym? It was

68:23something like that. I I've

68:25I've seen that story a hundred times.

68:27>> Yeah. So So to the again, my earlier

68:30point, we sell a number of different

68:31devices. Some include live video

68:33cameras.

68:34In some jurisdictions where they see

68:36vandalism in public parks after hours,

68:39they've found that a live video camera

68:42is helpful to invade to aid in an

68:44investigation or to alert

68:46to to alert local law enforcement if

68:50you know, if there's a trespassing or

68:52you know, other other crimes happening.

68:54Again, that that's not a technology that

68:56that you chose to deploy, but that that

68:58would be a use case.

68:59>> Those do like jackets or something.

69:01>> didn't buy any of those. So, they're not

69:03here. He's telling us about what we have

69:05here.

69:06>> Yeah, but I

69:07think we could put in anything else any

69:08other time and in a couple years we're

69:10going to have to adjust it and nothing's

69:12stopping us from buying four more after

69:14the four we have on the way. So, I want

69:16to know what they're about. Just because

69:18we don't have them in town here doesn't

69:19mean I'm not driving in Worcester

69:20tomorrow or or any number of other

69:22places in this country. Uh just because

69:25Charlton didn't buy them doesn't mean

69:26they're not good.

69:27>> this gentleman is telling us about

69:30Flock, what Charlton, not Flock.

69:32>> Well, well, he's he's from Flock. He can

69:34tell us about Flock all over, right?

69:36>> It's a general question of Flock.

69:38>> All right, it's not I mean, it's not our

69:40four current cameras and probably not

69:41our four next ones, but we need to know

69:44about about as much as might be

69:46installed without us really knowing

69:48about it cuz we approved it or forgot it

69:50to go to the meeting to not approve it

69:51like two years ago. Now they can put in

69:53whatever they want. So, I think it's a

69:54fair question.

69:56Just what's in Charlton? I don't live

69:58only in Charlton. I I I drive around.

70:00>> I can't speak for another town or

70:01another community.

70:02>> to Flock, right? I don't expect to

70:04what their technology are, what's it

70:05doing, what like

70:08and and what that really does for you it

70:10recognizes

70:12body shape and all that other stuff. It

70:13might not have facial recognition now

70:15like you said, but it does have other

70:17uses. So, I was just trying to get more

70:18clarity on that, but I guess we'll stick

70:20to Charlton for now.

70:22>> All right, everybody's

70:23Thank you, Carl.

70:25>> Thank you.

70:26>> Thank you. I appreciate it.

70:33>> Okay, does anybody have any specific

70:35questions to Charlton that we can help

70:36you with?

70:38>> No.

70:38>> Okay.

70:39>> What Where are we going to put those

70:41other four cameras if we do?

70:43>> Um we've put everything on hold so we

70:45don't

70:46>> And what do we do if I know this is a

70:49non-binding thing coming up in a week or

70:50whatever. What do we do if you get uh

70:52strong resistance to doing Flock? We're

70:54going to talk about this? We're going to

70:56take them down? We're going to at least

70:57stop

70:58putting up the form more if everybody

71:00votes to take them down. Can we at least

71:01stop putting up more until we

71:04Like where do we go? Where do we come

71:05back to that? If the vote is

71:06overwhelmingly people

71:07>> Thank you. No problem. Thank you.

71:08>> Sorry.

71:09>> The select board can override the vote

71:12next week or whatever.

71:14>> Well, it's not binding. So, the select

71:15board has to actively choose to take it

71:17up if they want to.

71:18>> But if they override it, we can move

71:20forward to a binding, right?

71:22>> Yeah, we have We have a binding thing in

71:23with the ACLU now.

71:25>> to do it in a in a different way.

71:27>> Okay.

71:28>> James, you

71:31>> The places I'm interested in putting

71:33them, if we get the you know, the four

71:35cameras go up, would be Route 20 mainly

71:37cuz we've got a lot of people

71:39>> Thank you.

71:40>> Well, they A lot of folks are coming out

71:41of Connecticut stealing cars. We just We

71:43just And we know they're going back and

71:45forth. That's kind of If we knew each

71:48end, we'd know at least they were in

71:49town, out of town. You know, we'd know

71:51that if we had one on each end of 20.

71:53>> I'm not here to deny that there are some

71:54good positive uses with this camera,

71:56right? I mean, the large majority of it,

71:58that's what's why it's tough to get

71:59anybody uh to see the the bad part of

72:02it. I mean, it's It helps It helps the

72:04police.

72:05>> It's all, you know, nobody wants to be

72:06followed. I mean,

72:08it's

72:08>> about this multiple times. Like I have

72:10an anti-police sentiment and sentiment.

72:12And that's not it. I I'm kind of more uh

72:15freedom and lack of surveillance and all

72:17that stuff. I mean, where it can go.

72:19Where it is today might seem safe,

72:20especially in this nice small town with

72:22good officers,

72:24you know, and stuff like that. You know,

72:26having but it

72:28feeds into everything else. It's It And

72:31it can get so much worse. Just because

72:33my phone always tracks me, doesn't mean

72:35I want something else to track me. Just

72:37because you've been stabbed once doesn't

72:38mean you want You want to be stabbed

72:40again.

72:40>> wrong, but nobody's willing to go back

72:42to landlines, either. Like the

72:44technology's there, and when you drive

72:46down the street, whether you want to

72:47admit it or not, you're in public. If I

72:49decide to wear an offensive shirt and I

72:51go walking down the street, that's a

72:53little different than if I wear that

72:54same offensive shirt in my house, and

72:55people are sneaking around and looking

72:57in my window. Well, that would be No,

72:59that would be wrong. You've got a right

73:01to privacy in your home. But, when you

73:03go out in public, and I I wear something

73:05offensive, and I walk down the street,

73:07it's fair game. That's the same thing

73:09with a license plate. You don't have You

73:11have to have a license plate on your

73:12vehicle. You have to have it registered

73:14and insured when you drive down the

73:15road. Those are rules that and laws

73:17we've all agreed to over the years. But,

73:19just

73:20>> don't have to wait let the state conduct

73:22like a search on you and

73:25create a database against you. And the

73:27state doing it is different than Google

73:29doing it. Just cuz I need their stuff

73:30and I click on yes, I'll do whatever you

73:32say. Nobody's reading that, whatever it

73:34is. Just because I say yeah, Google can

73:36look at my pictures, whatever, which I

73:37don't want them to, doesn't mean I want

73:39the state doing it. I mean, hey, fine.

73:41We You know, like if we can sit down and

73:42have coffee together, but I don't need

73:43you to know everything about me. Uh and

73:46and somebody else somebody with a bad

73:47actor to do that. That's what I'm trying

73:49to stop. I mean, where we're at now, if

73:50we're just doing it to to catch

73:52speeders, or we're not even doing

73:54speeders. We could not

73:55>> We're not doing speeders. We're not

73:56doing it.

73:56>> But, this all could be integrated in.

73:58>> for you, too.

73:59>> Okay.

73:59Okay.

74:00>> It's just it's it's

74:01um it's just your thoughts.

74:03Um

74:04now, from what I read in an article

74:07um in the Worcester Telegram and

74:08Gazette, I read that we are the only

74:11town in Worcester County left with

74:14functioning Flock cameras. Is that

74:16correct?

74:16>> I don't know.

74:17>> I don't know, to be honest with you.

74:18>> Okay, so that was what was reported by

74:20the investigative reporter.

74:22But,

74:23I actually have the article. I can send

74:24it

74:24>> No, no, no. Can you send me an I gave

74:26you my email earlier. Can you send me an

74:28email, and I will look for you and find

74:31it?

74:31>> Sure.

74:31>> Because

74:33I see Flock

74:34cameras in other towns, and

74:37>> But,

74:37>> we put them up.

74:38>> They have they have been

74:40decommissioned. They're not

74:41>> Somehow, but I don't think so.

74:42>> Okay, so that was my first question.

74:44Then my second question to you is, what

74:46are your feelings and your feelings on

74:49the large amount of towns surrounding us

74:53that have abandoned the technology? What

74:55what are your feelings on that? Do you

74:57think that we stand out, that we need it

74:59more than everywhere else? Like what

75:01what is what is it?

75:01>> I would say this,

75:02from my perspective, we were one of the

75:05first people to

75:07let's say jump on board with this stuff.

75:09We saw a lot of success.

75:11Um

75:12and a lot of the towns that have jumped

75:14off of Flock

75:16have inquired of us for Flock data,

75:19okay?

75:20>> using you guys?

75:21>> No, so they've inquired We

75:23We're selective in in what we do, but

75:26I'm saying prior to this, okay? They

75:27used us like

75:29>> So before they shut down?

75:31>> South Rich had a shooting, they would

75:32call us. Worcester, you know, other

75:34places have a shooting

75:36or another crime, they'd call us for

75:38Flock data, okay? I can't tell you why

75:41other towns

75:43>> Well, we know why.

75:43There's many of the towns that have

75:45released public statements released why

75:47they've abandoned the Flock technology.

75:49>> there's a campaign. I'm aware of that. I

75:51realize it's an organized campaign to to

75:53get rid of cameras.

75:54>> Worcester did not organize

75:56>> But well,

75:57you're here at a certain time and place,

75:59so I you're organized somewhat.

76:02And that's fine. Everybody's entitled to

76:03their own opinion. But

76:05a lot of times things get grouped as

76:07Flock. There's other products out there

76:09in other communities.

76:10>> We'll say Flock and Flock-like products.

76:12>> That's all. You know, I'm just saying.

76:13So whether it's Axon or Motorola or you

76:17know, I I got to go

76:18on a trip to the airport and I'm going

76:20to, you know, fly. I mean, I'm

76:21unfortunately I'm going to go walk

76:23through the airport and they're going to

76:24x-ray me and they're going to take check

76:26my bag and they're going to probably

76:28facial recognition that I'm unaware of

76:31and I

76:32it's just Does it make me feel like this

76:34things are great? No, it don't. It's a

76:36little eerie, but at the same time after

76:399/11 nobody had a problem taking off

76:41their shoes and going through a metal

76:43detector because it was like a, you

76:44know, a serious thing. I don't want the

76:46average person followed around or have

76:48any thoughts that we're trying to

76:50surveil them or

76:52>> I had never felt

76:53>> There's hundreds and hundreds of

76:54thousands, I would Anthony would correct

76:55me, of pictures that just disappear.

76:57Like they're not even We don't even look

76:59at There's days we go by without looking

77:01at Flock. But a department will call us

77:03and say, "We just had a hit-and-run."

77:06It's a lot easier if somebody said,

77:08"Hey, I just got a a red pickup truck

77:11ramming off the road went by the

77:12library." It's a lot easier to go, "When

77:13did it happen?" Okay, well, only four

77:15pickup red pickup trucks went by in the

77:17last hour. We only have to talk to four

77:20people versus

77:22there's 4,000 red pickup trucks in the

77:24area. We'd have a lot of suspects. So,

77:25that's that's where it helps us.

77:27>> I really appreciate the fact that you

77:30guys are We have an amazing police

77:33department. I really appreciate your

77:36passion and efforts for all this. And

77:38I'm I thank you for your answers.

77:40>> Um again, your time

77:41>> And your time tonight, yes. And um so so

77:44if I'm hearing you correctly, um when I

77:46asked you how you felt about the

77:48surrounding towns, you're looking at us

77:50as independent an island. Like we this

77:53is good for us. This is what we need. Is

77:54that what I'm hearing?

77:56>> Yeah, I I I think as as police chief, I

77:58know

77:59>> And that's where you're coming from that

78:00that's the justification for

78:01>> I know that things could have been

78:03different if these cameras were up in

78:05something like Holly Perini

78:07disappearance or Molly Bish. Like we

78:10might have had a suspect

78:12like that.

78:13>> Okay.

78:13>> You know.

78:14>> That's

78:14>> Do I want to

78:16you know, anybody I don't I'm not

78:17interested in I don't want people

78:18speeding going through red lights, but

78:20at the same time I'm not interested in

78:21tracking that down. I'm zero interest.

78:23>> Okay, that's what

78:24>> Zero interest. That's what police

78:25officers should go out there and

78:26unfortunately, if you decide to go

78:28through the red light and you get pulled

78:29over, that's on you. I don't make I

78:31don't think we need Big Brother

78:33Ooh, you know, you went 3 miles an hour

78:35over the speed limit. You're you a

78:37ticket in the mail. I don't I don't

78:39That's not what I'm looking for. I'm

78:40looking for serious crimes and you know,

78:44obviously there's minor crimes too, but

78:45you know, property damage when you're

78:47upset when somebody vandalizes your car

78:49or breaks into your car and you want us

78:51to and all we can say I don't know,

78:53nobody was there. Well, we can look at

78:55it well, all right, if it's 3:00 in the

78:56morning, and they probably drove down

78:58this street, there's a good possibility

79:00that there's only 10 cars. We got a What

79:02kind of a color was it?

79:03>> I'll give you one example like in line

79:06with what the chief said, okay?

79:08We had somebody try to falsely report a

79:10crash. Uh

79:12um

79:13Again, I'm going off my memory, so

79:14don't, you know, quote me on this. And

79:17this goes back a year, year and a half.

79:19Somebody tried to falsely file an

79:21insurance claim saying that their car

79:23was hit.

79:24And there was a flock image of them

79:26driving by

79:28with the damage on and then the flock

79:31camera with the same damage. They tried

79:33to falsely report it.

79:35They came to the police station, go to

79:37file a report saying that their car was

79:40involved in a hit-and-run.

79:42And we were we were able to say, "Hey,

79:43no. Like, you had this damage ahead of

79:45time. You're trying to like falsely

79:48say something that didn't happen, okay?"

79:50The same as we've excluded people. We've

79:52excluded suspects in crimes. We've

79:55uh

79:56we've used it to solve crimes, but we've

79:58also used it to exclude people out of

79:59crimes, too.

80:01And the biggest thing is, in my opinion,

80:04the biggest benefit is

80:06an elderly person, suicidal kid,

80:08suicidal adult,

80:10a person goes missing, a person is

80:11kidnapped. The The value of that, in my

80:14opinion, in

80:15returning somebody to their house, you

80:17can't put a dollar sign on it. Um you

80:19know,

80:20our property damage

80:22crimes that we're able to solve and

80:24property loss,

80:25um at least somebody gets restitution.

80:27Somebody gets it, you know, somewhat of

80:30being made whole. But those crimes where

80:32somebody might kill themselves or uh

80:35you know, somebody wanders off and they

80:37you know, they drive into a down a dirt

80:39road, those we can't put a dollar sign

80:41on those. And those to in my opinion,

80:44that is where the value is.

80:45>> So, it sounds like both of you are

80:47pretty kind of scared of like the more

80:50advanced capabilities of this system and

80:52wouldn't want that in our town, but

80:54>> We don't have a need for it.

80:55>> Yeah. And but say like,

80:57>> I don't know.

80:58>> 15 years down the line, both of you are

81:00not in the department or something like

81:01that, how do we ensure that the next

81:03person in your place has a similar

81:06feeling about like because the system is

81:08fully capable of like person searches

81:10and video things like that, how do we as

81:13a town ensure that we keep it at a level

81:15that both of you are saying is very

81:17beneficial to our department um and is

81:19not super invasive, I guess.

81:22>> I I would say that I mean, I maintain

81:25it, you maintain it, and I don't think

81:27to be honest with you, if you surveyed

81:28the police department, I mean,

81:29I I don't think there's anybody

81:30interested in in those capabilities

81:32because

81:33>> Well,

81:33>> I don't know.

81:34>> You bring up a good point.

81:35>> None of us know the future.

81:37>> I don't know. I mean, that's when you

81:38get involved and you say, "Hey, we don't

81:39want this new upgrade." or

81:41>> Well, that's where I was going with

81:42that. So, it's like

81:43>> So, basically, but

81:45with what he's saying, if you're

81:48if someone else, whenever, down the

81:50line, does go for I want the latest and

81:54greatest software and hardware,

81:56>> Cuz why wouldn't

81:57>> is that

81:58something

82:00that would then have to be approved by

82:03the select board?

82:05So, it would be

82:06>> It would depend upon how it was

82:07purchased. If it was purchased through

82:09the police department or whether it was

82:10purchased at town meeting through an

82:12article, then it would be, you know,

82:14depending upon how it was purchased.

82:16>> Through the Through the police

82:17department, you have the the strong

82:19chief statute or whatever that gives you

82:20like purchasing authority for these

82:21different systems, right?

82:22>> Within my budget.

82:23>> Yes.

82:23>> So, my budget goes through town.

82:25>> Yeah, so the budget's is to 9.

82:28>> There's also the budget I just can't

82:29spend money crazy. I get a certain

82:30number. It's like a checkbook. I got to

82:32balance the checkbook at the end and we

82:34have money left over.

82:37You know, one of the things that guys

82:38thought about uh

82:41and I kind of got a little wary of was

82:44you can put these devices on a vehicle.

82:47But the problem is is that when they are

82:48seriously they're they're hard wired.

82:51So, when that vehicle is not used it

82:53doesn't help it. So, you got to be using

82:54that vehicle

82:56specifically driving around. Well, let's

82:58be honest. You know, their offices are

83:00in doing reports. Like these things like

83:02machines like the Terminator. They don't

83:04tire. Like they're they're out there

83:0624/7 running and if you're looking for

83:09hey, this vehicle was just involved in a

83:11you know, whatever

83:13you know, a shooting.

83:14It's going to indicate

83:16to the officers, hey, that just went

83:17down Stafford Street. They don't have to

83:19know where it went, but they're going to

83:20know what time it crossed.

83:22Another thing that happens a lot of

83:23times in the police department is

83:26we work 24/7.

83:29Something will happen at 3:00 in the

83:30morning and they'll say, "Hey, there was

83:32a shooting on on Webster at 3:00 in the

83:35morning and they're looking for a blue

83:36Honda Civic."

83:39Well, 8 hours later it's a different

83:40shift. Do you hope they still remember

83:42that or if they read the log or they're

83:44still as vigilant looking for it? But

83:46that what what Flock will do or camera

83:48system LPI system is immediately notify

83:51that vehicle just went by because it's

83:54been looking for this.

83:55>> Yeah, now everybody knows.

83:58>> Where we live geographically is tough,

84:00too, because you can be in Connecticut

84:03with under an hour. You can be, you

84:05know, much under an hour. Rhode Island

84:06in under an hour. So, that's why

84:08typically when cars are getting stolen a

84:10lot of times they're going across state

84:12lines to make it hotter. So, sometimes

84:14as soon as we get a hit an indication

84:15that a stolen vehicle is coming in they

84:18can be, you know, across state lines in

84:20a matter of short short order.

84:21>> When I when I was on the road working

84:23midnights, if somebody called and said,

84:25"Hey,

84:26I just we they were few and far between.

84:28We didn't have a lot of cars stolen, but

84:30or more, but people, you know, a nurse

84:33coming home at 3:00 in the morning or

84:35somebody wakes up to go to bathroom and

84:36see somebody stealing a car,

84:38we would send if we had

84:40available people, we would send somebody

84:42to 20 and 80 as close to 84 because we

84:44knew the cars were going out of

84:46our pattern was they were going out of

84:48state.

84:49>> So, you still

84:50>> do that? But, do you rely on this to do

84:52so much on this guy?

84:53>> still do that, but

84:55it's a

84:56we're we have to

84:57we're predicting something where is

84:59Flock is static and it's there and it's

85:01watching like the cars going by it. So,

85:05we can focus on other areas

85:07like we know if a car gets stolen and

85:10it's going to Worcester, the Flock is

85:11going to catch it.

85:12>> Okay.

85:13>> Um if it's going to

85:15Connecticut by 31, we know the Flock on

85:18Main Street is going to grab it. Okay.

85:20Um so, we don't have to send somebody to

85:23those areas. We can go to

85:25area like the lesser

85:27>> Makes it a lot easier.

85:28>> probability, right. But, um it does

85:32help us. It does like it does increase

85:36our ability to solve crime and to be in

85:38two places at once.

85:40>> That Can you see the Masspike stuff?

85:42>> No.

85:42>> That's a separate separate issue.

85:45>> That's nothing. I don't even know if the

85:46state police can see their own see the

85:47pike.

85:48>> Can we see stuff? Like do you have

85:50access to stuff? Can we see something on

85:51a camera? I thought we're going to get

85:52to look at it.

85:53>> Yeah, I can set one up. Sure.

85:56>> Anthony, any idea

85:58>> I don't know.

85:59>> how many stolen cars probably a month

86:01come through town?

86:02>> I can find it in 2 seconds.

86:06It's going to take me 1 second just to

86:08log in and then

86:12>> Have either of you guys spoken to any of

86:13the local folks like you Everybody knows

86:16we still got them, they don't if you

86:17talk to them, but like

86:18>> I have

86:19>> Why'd you take them down? What was wrong

86:20with your What was wrong with you

86:21obviously some places think they're

86:23>> So, contract problems and what we got

86:25the same problems.

86:26>> So, this isn't hurting anybody.

86:27>> Be careful in what you see because a lot

86:29of places have

86:30suspended.

86:32>> Yes.

86:32>> They're not stopping using it. They're

86:34suspending it for right now until

86:36the like some issue.

86:38>> to calm down.

86:39>> Until they're voting. A lot of the towns

86:40are voting, right? Well, Southbridge is

86:43one that is the same.

86:45Yeah.

86:46They were

86:46>> I just need you to bear with me one

86:47second.

86:48>> Or you can just put it on pause and you

86:49can hit unpause real quick

86:52later if you

86:53unless you take them down or

86:56>> Do you have a comprehensive list of the

86:58towns that

86:59>> There's 30 plus a couple of weeks ago.

87:01>> Yeah, yeah, it's changed I'm sure since,

87:03but

87:04>> And there's certainly more than 120,000

87:05cameras out there or security devices

87:07out there.

87:10Yep.

87:12I might show them to you.

87:13>> Okay.

87:17>> The camera on 169 does not look 12 ft

87:19high, by the way.

87:20>> It is. I'm I'm 5 ft 7 and uh

87:24it does not look it. I'm telling you

87:26that 100%.

87:27>> tall.

87:27>> And

87:28>> The one in front of the library does,

87:30too, but the pole is all the way up.

87:31>> That one looks tall to me, but when I

87:32drove by the 169 one I was

87:34>> It's just It's just cuz there's nothing

87:35around it for perspective.

87:39>> I haven't gotten to walk up by like the

87:41Stafford Street one yet. I live right

87:43near it so I can pass it like leaving my

87:45house every day basically, but is that

87:47pole cemented right into the ground or

87:50are they installed in like a shearing?

87:53>> It's supposed to be a breakaway.

87:54>> Yeah, like a shearing plate.

87:56>> You know what? I

87:57I haven't looked.

87:58Uh

88:00Give me 2 seconds. Just a second.

88:03>> You know I'm sorry.

88:04>> How many things can they do at once

88:05towns?

88:06>> Yes.

88:06>> You know what I did read, you can Google

88:08it, is um Cambridge. So, you remember

88:10Cambridge, they voted to take them down,

88:12they had the shooting, and guess what

88:13they wanted to

88:15Oh, maybe we over overly hastily got rid

88:17of these cuz that might have helped.

88:19>> Yeah, but those had a lot of false

88:21positives with the shootings there.

88:23>> I'm sorry?

88:23>> There were a lot of false positives with

88:25that with that shooting with that noise

88:27camera thing, too. Yeah. It was making

88:29It was picking up on stuff that wasn't

88:30there.

88:31>> Oh, you're referring to ShotSpotter.

88:32That's uh

88:33>> ShotSpotter. Yeah, that's a different

88:34system. That's something that So many

88:35systems just like

88:36>> Yeah. No, you're right. You're right.

88:37That That hears noises that are similar

88:39to bullets and says, "Hey, uh

88:41there was a shooting in this area." And

88:43that's So, that's this That's what's

88:45come across is they thought that they

88:47might have overreacted getting rid of

88:48both to Brian's point, ShotSpotter and

88:51Flock, because when there was that

88:52shooting

88:53>> Have you had any conversations with like

88:55other police chiefs in the area about

88:57it? Have you talked to any of them?

88:59>> No. I mean,

89:01>> I mean, have they

89:04the ones that have disabled or

89:05discontinued their contracts? And I

89:07mean, have they

89:09all like

89:10disclosed everything why they did it?

89:12>> The most of it

89:13>> pressure or was it

89:14>> Yeah, I think I think most of them

89:16thought uh it just the you know, the

89:17juice wasn't worth the squeeze. So, um

89:21right now, it's it's a terrible time.

89:23Right now, I wouldn't want to be a Flock

89:24stock owner. You know, I mean, they've

89:26they've gone through the wringer.

89:28Um you know, and certainly

89:30I don't want to see them ever be used or

89:33misused.

89:34>> I I wasn't paying attention and I what?

89:36>> I was like, "Why is he talking about my

89:37family?"

89:38>> No.

89:38>> Almost nervous.

89:39>> I'm almost

89:40>> read chiefs text me and saying, "Hey,

89:42you at least have the courage to support

89:45the what it you believe positively

89:47does."

89:47>> Look, I mean, you know that I mean, us

89:50our concerns is not with you guys. Like,

89:52we don't we don't think our

89:55>> I brought cookies just so that we didn't

89:57have

90:00I don't want to

90:00>> I think that a lot of this comes from

90:03the

90:04>> There's a lot of mistrust, don't you

90:06>> You know, and you always wonder what's

90:07next or

90:08>> Yeah, and and that's where this comes

90:09from. This is by no means like any every

90:12single person I talked to about this

90:15there's by no means anyone is

90:17saying anything negative about our

90:19intentions in this town. It's the

90:22it's the mistrust of AI

90:25big corporations, data mining, that kind

90:28of thing.

90:29>> I feel like my friends with the police

90:30stickers might not work anymore though.

90:33>> Can I have one?

90:33>> Yes, they're here.

90:35>> Thank you. Hopefully so.

90:36>> So, this is what a stolen plate alert

90:38looks like.

90:40All right.

90:41Um

90:43picture of the car

90:44north side of Stafford Street

90:46uh

90:48and the license plate um date and time.

90:51Let me go into it and see if I can find

90:54>> Can you pull up something live? Can we

90:55see in front of the library right now?

90:58>> We don't have live, but we have

91:00>> When how often does it

91:01>> It's If something happened

91:02>> I'd have to know a plate going by. I

91:04can't just live stream uh I don't have

91:06the ability to live stream. You want to

91:08run my cruiser for going

91:10>> Check out I got the copy of the keys

91:11already, so

91:13>> What's that?

91:14I didn't hear you. What'd you say,

91:15Brian?

91:15>> I said I got a copy of the keys already.

91:17I'll just go do

91:18>> So, you're the same as everybody that's

91:19stealing cars. They uh

91:22is a technology out there you can buy it

91:24for

91:26uh

91:28I think it's a less than $3,000 you can

91:30clone the car. Like we've had a ton of

91:32problems with dealerships. They'll go

91:34in, they'll clone a key

91:36and the in the morning the dealerships

91:38come in and the

91:41uh the Dodge Charger is gone. The the

91:45pickup truck is gone because they cloned

91:46the key in the parking lot while they

91:49were there and then left. So.

91:51>> I can see how they'd have security

91:53cameras. They

92:00>> So, just unrelated. So, I am going away

92:03to the airport

92:05next Friday.

92:08So, I'm like, "I better pay for parking

92:09before cuz that's a nightmare getting

92:10down there and like, how are you going

92:12to get screwed?" And you know, so I'm

92:13going online and I try to like locate,

92:16you know, the my deal for parking. And

92:18you literally

92:20you put in your plate

92:22and it will, when I show up, it's going

92:24to the gate's going to open and then you

92:25put in the times and, you know, the I'm

92:27going to be there for 4 days and it's

92:29going to, you know, but literally you

92:30put in your license plate and state and

92:33license plate number and that's how it

92:36and then it gives you a you can also

92:37print off a um

92:40you know, the code, but but anyways,

92:42it's just so they said, "Hey, you just

92:43roll in and you just got the gate's

92:44going to open." And you've said that's

92:46common now at a lot of storage

92:48facilities.

92:48>> storage facilities

92:50are using it. So, this flock has two

92:52entities, private and public, okay? A

92:55lot of the private stuff that I've seen,

92:58um you're on a storage facility,

93:01um the gate opens

93:02when it read like

93:04I'm paying for 3 months of storage,

93:06these are the two cars that are going in

93:08and it the gate opens up when it sees

93:10the plate. Um

93:13and

93:14the other thing is like, we don't have

93:16them around here, but gated gated like

93:18condo

93:19uh complexes um open up same thing. You

93:23have two cars that they're allowed to be

93:25there, guest parking is outside and

93:28that's what opens up. So,

93:30um

93:31>> And I think there's a value to something

93:32like Amazon when they've got trucks

93:34coming in and out, they can probably

93:35keep track of what time somebody left

93:38when they loaded them up and what time

93:39they pulled out of the, you know,

93:40there's some stuff that you could see

93:42the private sector benefiting from.

93:44>> Yeah, I don't really have a problem with

93:45like license plate reading and cameras.

93:47It's more the system behind it that

93:49aggregates all your information and I

93:51think more so in like big cities that

93:53are using all of the features of the

93:55stuff and like that, that starts to feel

93:57like that.

93:58>> I can't envision a I don't want to

94:00envision a town where there's a

94:01camera on every corner. I don't. Like I

94:04just think

94:04>> It makes sense on businesses and things

94:06like somebody breaks into your shop or

94:07whatever like you have video and like

94:09stuff like that. I don't

94:11Yeah.

94:12You're in public like

94:14>> Yeah, I

94:15I mean if this technology goes airborne

94:17and we only control

94:18so much.

94:23>> I I work in AI development and it's

94:26terrifying. So that's why it scares me.

94:28>> That lady that was on the video, wasn't

94:30she an AI person?

94:31>> No, she was real.

94:32>> If somebody walks by that camera, do

94:34they get

94:34>> I've watched it twice now. You know, is

94:36that real or is

94:36>> It has to be real.

94:37>> I I had to look at it. She was not AI.

94:40>> That was uh

94:42poor technology for us. So I had a lot

94:45of trouble embedding a

94:47uh a video.

94:48>> So if I go over in front of the library

94:50right now and wave at it or put my hand

94:53up in front of it, is it going to see

94:54anything? You're going to be able to see

94:56it?

94:56>> No, uh

94:57all I'm going to see is the

94:59the a vehicle, but uh give me 1 second.

95:01I'm just running

95:02>> There must be somebody who's driven by

95:03in the past 5 minutes here.

95:06>> I'm going to drive by while you wave in

95:07front of it. I'm going to run the plates

95:08and see if it picks it up.

95:10So I keep I I used my plate, but like

95:14>> You'll be seeing a picture every 60

95:16seconds.

95:17>> I mean I drove I didn't drive by it

95:18today.

95:20>> So like

95:21>> Oh, thank you.

95:22>> You know what I mean? Like that's a

95:24Stafford Street.

95:25Uh

95:26behind Ted's. Like that's my cruiser.

95:29That's

95:30if we're searching for my cruiser.

95:32>> Is that at the fire department or at or

95:33the Ted's property?

95:35>> No, it's behind it's on Stafford Street

95:36behind.

95:38So

95:38>> I didn't look for it, but I heard it was

95:39Ted's property.

95:41>> I'll give you another example. The

95:43closest thing we could do

95:45to searching

95:47uh

95:50Give me a second here. The closest thing

95:52we could do to searching is

95:54give me a vehicle

95:57>> We can search by anybody's plate that

95:59drove by here today, right? Anybody

96:01drive by the camera an hour ago?

96:03>> I did.

96:04>> No, let's I don't want to because we're

96:06on cable access, I don't want to put

96:07somebody infringe somebody's

96:10rights.

96:11>> Like a red Camry or something.

96:13>> All right, body style. Do you want to

96:14sit in?

96:15>> Sure.

96:20>> Color?

96:21>> Red.

96:22>> I don't know.

96:23>> White, common color.

96:29>> You know what? I'm going to leave it all

96:30just to show you.

96:40>> Thank you all very much. I appreciate

96:42it.

96:43>> So, this is what we have.

96:45That's red sedan, okay?

96:48Um

96:49This is as close as we can get

96:55to real time. Like I can't

96:57>> That's That's fine.

96:58>> Um I can't get any

97:00>> That's 1,400 results in like 30 days or

97:03whatever it's going back 30

97:04>> Um I I only went back a week.

97:08I did 7 days. So, just to give you an

97:10idea, that's

97:12it like I can't randomly search like

97:15I don't have the capability to do some

97:16of the stuff.

97:17>> So, is each of those pictures just

97:18attached to one car?

97:20>> Like there's presumably like six little

97:21pictures there or are those all

97:23sequential six pictures I'm looking at?

97:25>> No, those are different cars.

97:26>> Yeah, but there's there's multiple

97:28pictures of each of those cars, right?

97:30>> No.

97:31>> So, so just one picture of that car.

97:33>> Just one picture of the car cuz it got

97:35it got what it's looking for, the

97:36license plate.

97:36>> That's my daughter.

97:38>> Is it really?

97:39>> Yes.

97:41>> She told me she was home.

97:43We're going to split a lottery ticket

97:44tonight.

97:49>> Um my god, no.

97:53>> I hope the plate comes up right now.

97:55>> I can't remember her license, but it

97:56could be

97:57>> If we did that, wouldn't it

97:58>> That would be weird.

97:59>> Then there's something else.

98:01>> Yeah, her car's not Her car's a room, so

98:04>> So, like, presumably you drive around

98:06all four of the cameras, and then I

98:07can't

98:08Oh, I passed all four of those cameras

98:10in some amount of time, and I've

98:11probably traveled this path to pass all

98:13four of our cameras in town.

98:15>> I I'll tell you this, be a lot of effort

98:16on you to go do that in this system, it

98:19looks like.

98:19>> Yeah, you couldn't just

98:21like it would

98:23it wouldn't pick it up. Like, I tried it

98:25with somebody that came in.

98:26If people have been asking for

98:28demonstrations, they couldn't make the

98:29meeting, we did some stuff with them.

98:31Um I actually had an officer drive

98:32around in his car

98:34so that we could show, "Hey, this is

98:36what it it does." cuz I knew his plate.

98:38Um

98:40the only

98:41Sorry, this week it's the crappy

98:42picture.

98:44If I did pick your daughter out, then

98:45we're going to buy a lottery ticket, cuz

98:47I literally picked just a random

98:49>> I don't

98:50She What is that the last 7 days?

98:53>> Yes.

98:53>> She's home from school.

98:55Go get her.

98:57I don't remember. I can't I'm a woman, I

98:59don't remember license plate numbers.

99:02>> All right, so

99:02>> You catch different ones every

99:03>> You guys ask some questions before, real

99:05quick.

99:07It's it's getting there.

99:09All right, so total volume of cars

99:12year-to-date volume, 5 million cars have

99:14been read

99:15in town.

99:16>> And those are non-unique, like it could

99:17be like my car multiple times.

99:19>> Yep, 100%. Okay.

99:21>> And you know, to your point, 40 times a

99:23day, you know, if you're going back and

99:25forth.

99:25>> Yeah, yeah.

99:25>> It just

99:26>> Like, just I'm going to scroll down. I'm

99:28limited a little bit by the

99:32by the screen, but like

99:35today, 23,000 cars

99:38in town that hit a flock, okay? There's

99:41a lot of traffic here.

99:43Um

99:43>> Oh yeah, I live right off Stafford. It's

99:45constant.

99:45>> Yeah.

99:47Forget it. You don't try to cross in

99:48Main Street.

99:49Main Street at 5:00 not fun.

99:56Or between like 2:30 and 4:00 across the

99:58school.

99:59>> Yeah, the bus is on.

100:03 | >> I've been here a long time. When I first

100:07 | started going to work

100:10 | I would just turn

100:12 | pull onto Main Street.

100:14 | Now, sometimes I'm waiting up to 5

100:17 | minutes

100:17 | >> Oh yeah.

100:18 | >> depending on when.

100:19 | But I don't work anymore, so that's

100:21 | okay.

100:22 | >> I should have tried to pass 169.

100:26 | When there's problems on the pike.

100:27 | >> Yeah, it's bad everywhere.

100:31 | >> Sorry, I'm trying to get a

100:32 | >> You never go Route 20 east

100:35 | >> No.

100:35 | >> on Sunday, well, any day around 3:00.

100:38 | >> Yeah.

100:40 | >> And you don't do it

100:42 | at the 4:00 or whatever on Sundays of

100:45 | the weekend people.

100:49 | >> And you go down to like the Walmart down

100:50 | there or whatever it's strawberry and

100:51 | you try to come back and you're stuck

100:53 | for 45 minutes and I try

100:55 | >> Well, no, that's when you just

100:57 | go and drive drive to

101:01 | >> Okay, so year-to-date

101:03 | stolen vehicles

101:05 | >> from 169

101:07 | >> 1,082

101:09 | um

101:11 | Sorry, stolen plates, stolen vehicles uh

101:13 | just in town 386. Sex offenders

101:16 | um 129

101:19 | gangs

101:20 | uh suspected terrorists have come up on

101:22 | an NCIC hit um 23

101:25 | >> So, how do you get these sex offenders

101:26 | and the terrorists? What, they just by

101:28 | their license plate?

101:29 | >> They have to register uh sex offender

101:31 | when they register in Massachusetts has

101:33 | to register with their license plate and

101:36 | any vehicle that they drive. So, if you

101:38 | go look at like our published

101:41 | uh statewide. Uh so, if you go on the

101:43 | Sex Offender Registry Board,

101:44 | um they have to provide their vehicle,

101:46 | they have to provide a a whole bunch of

101:48 | information as a condition of

101:49 | registration. Since they

101:50 | >> And certain levels are they

101:51 | automatically tracked as they come

101:52 | through town?

101:53 | >> They're not. No, it's mostly

101:54 | >> It says how many are up there, right?

101:55 | With

101:56 | >> No, so at certain levels. So, certain

101:59 | levels don't have to provide them,

102:00 | certain levels do, and then people that

102:02 | are in violation

102:04 | um

102:05 | who are traveling through. And it might

102:06 | be another state.

102:07 | >> They get like warrants and stuff, too?

102:09 | >> If you don't register If they don't

102:10 | register

102:11 | >> not you're not for the sex offenders

102:12 | specifically, for

102:14 | just just people with warrants or

102:15 | >> Yes, so like uh

102:17 | 14 warrants, we

102:19 | uh typically don't use it for warrants

102:22 | um

102:22 | because

102:24 | >> That's just Dan's point though.

102:27 | With a warrant, it's only if the I could

102:29 | have a warrant and drive somebody else's

102:31 | car and it's not going to indicate. It's

102:33 | only if I have a warrant and that car is

102:35 | somehow through law enforcement or

102:36 | something that's been attributed to me

102:38 | that they can put it in that file so

102:40 | that it's a hit to say, "Hey, there's a

102:42 | likelihood." But you

102:44 | you could have switched cars. You When

102:45 | you stop that car, that doesn't mean

102:47 | that person has a warrant. That just

102:49 | means there's a high likelihood

102:50 | >> You know that somebody with a warrant

102:52 | drove by you.

102:52 | >> The chief makes a good distinction there

102:54 | because

102:55 | um these are warrants in NCIC. So, these

102:58 | are warrants It doesn't just run WMS

103:00 | Massachusetts warrants. It runs vehicle

103:04 | ones that are linked to a person with a

103:05 | vehicle.

103:06 | So, it's and NCIC warrants are a higher

103:10 | degree There's more serious crimes.

103:12 | >> So, Flock integrates those

103:14 | >> Because they're nationwide. Those are

103:15 | run nationwide.

103:16 | >> So, you don't have to input like

103:17 | >> Those are

103:18 | >> the sex offenders of the town into here

103:20 | >> Those are at the

103:21 | uh federal level, NCIC.

103:23 | >> Do you have terrorists that come up also

103:25 | or just

103:25 | >> Um

103:26 | >> Is that what one of the lines was?

103:28 | >> Yeah.

103:28 | >> Yeah, but they yeah, uh gang activity at

103:31 | that's entered through NCIC. These are

103:33 | all NCIC. These are not things we're

103:35 | entering.

103:36 | Um

103:37 | but

103:39 | uh and we've had a missing person

103:41 | um

103:45 | just looking at my date uh

103:50 | hit there.

103:51 | Um

103:52 | >> So, this is so much better and worse

103:54 | than I thought.

103:55 | Like, there's a lot of positive aspects

103:57 | to it. There's a lot of cool things to

103:58 | it.

103:59 | >> good and there's bad.

104:00 | >> Almost everything Anything you do, I can

104:02 | tell you there's a pro and a con.

104:04 | Um and a lot of times when people will

104:05 | say, you know, like ICE is a hot-button

104:07 | topic. Again, this is a license plate

104:10 | reader. You'd have to have, you know,

104:12 | when we get like a a hit that there's a

104:14 | crime occurring, like we don't say, "Oh,

104:16 | there was a shooting down the in

104:18 | Southbridge or Worcester.

104:20 | What's their immigration status?" Cuz

104:22 | we're not going to stop them if they're

104:23 | this or that. Like, there's a crime.

104:24 | We're going to stop them. But, we don't

104:26 | take any federal action on somebody's

104:29 | immigration status. But, if there was a

104:31 | a shooting and that car had to be

104:32 | stopped whoever the suspects are in the

104:35 | car would get out, possibly arrested and

104:38 | then

104:39 | and I just want to say the immigration

104:41 | But, we're not hunting for immigration

104:43 | for somebody that's overstepped their

104:45 | visa or something like that.

104:46 | >> This is what the federal government's

104:47 | doing that. And you're You're providing

104:50 | >> I don't care what the federal government

104:51 | is doing, but I would tell you this

104:52 | probably.

104:53 | This is a license plate reader, not a

104:55 | person finder. You know, I mean, you

104:57 | might find a person that's driving a

104:58 | registered car if they had a warrant

105:00 | that was entered. But, it's not going to

105:02 | tell me if I don't know what car you

105:03 | drove here tonight.

105:05 | >> Yeah, but most most usually people are

105:07 | operating their own vehicles.

105:08 | >> Usually No, you're You're not wrong. I'm

105:10 | just saying that I mean, the chances are

105:11 | you could have driven something else

105:13 | here and you know, it is what it is.

105:14 | It's just going to tell us what vehicle

105:16 | went by at a certain time and place.

105:18 | >> I'm glad it's you guys at the helm of it

105:20 | because like this system is capable of

105:22 | so much more and other departments that

105:24 | might not be as

105:25 | >> You guys seem reasonable and respectful

105:27 | it.

105:27 | >> We appreciate that.

105:28 | >> Like I seem reasonable. I don't know

105:30 | what this

105:31 | >> That would have That would have looked

105:32 | too funny.

105:33 | >> The fact that the system can do it is

105:34 | the terrifying part.

105:35 | >> So, one other thing I talked about, and

105:37 | I haven't I've intentionally not cleared

105:39 | these out just so I I knew people are

105:41 | asking about them, okay? This is an AI

105:44 | audit function, okay? Remember I showed

105:47 | you before the Excel spreadsheets? So,

105:49 | this condenses it. It see

105:51 | So, you see searches beyond a 30-day

105:53 | timeframe.

105:55 | I intentionally

105:56 | tried to push a search beyond 30 days

105:59 | to show people I can't do it, okay?

106:02 | Um

106:04 | and it flags, "Hey, why is he He knows

106:07 | it's 30 days.

106:09 | Why is he searching beyond the 30 days?"

106:11 | So, it says

106:13 | it sends us a a

106:14 | a notification.

106:16 | Um

106:18 | and that's my cruiser that I

106:19 | intentionally tried to push beyond 30

106:21 | days, okay?

106:23 | Um

106:25 | Can I ask you not to hit the screen for

106:27 | a minute with the camera? Can you

106:29 | >> I'm below it right now, so it's not on

106:31 | camera.

106:31 | >> Okay.

106:32 | Um

106:36 | the

106:40 | Give me a second here.

106:45 | All right, so

106:47 | remember the ones I was telling you

106:48 | about with repeated narrow timeframes

106:50 | where somebody's hitting refresh?

106:52 | It's It's catching those, okay? That's

106:55 | somebody doing good police work. They're

106:56 | sitting on Route 20 or they're sitting

106:58 | somewhere where there isn't a camera,

107:00 | and they're using the camera to watch

107:03 | the other street so that they can find

107:04 | the person um

107:06 | and

107:07 | Flock We We talked to Flock about this.

107:10 | They said, "Hey, there's a

107:11 | custom feature

107:13 | in the program that we can set up so

107:15 | that it can do that without triggering

107:17 | this audit."

107:18 | >> I was going to say

107:18 | >> It will record it all, but it doesn't

107:20 | trigger the audit, okay?

107:23 | And I mean with anything there's things

107:25 | we learn

107:26 | like as we we use it, okay?

107:28 | >> one who does the audit? Is it

107:30 | >> I do it and I give it to Deputy Mason.

107:33 | So.

107:34 | >> An audit's not bad things. Keeps

107:36 | everybody honest. Like you know, if

107:39 | people know, hey, people look at this

107:41 | and and by the way, the system looks at

107:43 | this, too. So, there's two sets of eyes,

107:46 | the system and a you know, a supervisor.

107:50 | >> Um

107:52 | but that's that's like where it shows

107:54 | you that it's

107:56 | um

107:57 | the AI function. And I I haven't um

108:02 | I haven't cleared those out

108:03 | intentionally so that I could show them.

108:06 | Um

108:07 | >> Can you do um bumper sticker?

108:09 | >> Yeah, we can do that.

108:10 | >> I guess you said like there's a there's

108:12 | a false narrative out there that

108:15 | that you're looking for whatever. Say

108:17 | you're you're anti-Trump or you're

108:19 | anti-Harris or whatever and like somehow

108:22 | the police are going after these people.

108:26 | It doesn't bump a sticker though.

108:28 | >> It doesn't specifically look for a Trump

108:30 | or a Harris. It looks for a sticker. So,

108:33 | if he does a search

108:36 | of looking for maybe the person the sus-

108:38 | excuse me, the the victim says, "I don't

108:40 | know what kind of car it was, but it had

108:41 | a bunch of bumper stickers on the back."

108:44 | Then the officer could just look for

108:46 | bumper stickers.

108:48 | Now, it may not be a bumper sticker.

108:50 | Okay, it could be a something else, a

108:51 | decal or

108:53 | but anyway, something that the the

108:55 | software system recognizes that didn't

108:57 | come from the factory with that car.

108:59 | Like a roof rack or something that was

109:01 | put on later. So, that's why that

109:03 | ability to I'm sorry.

109:04 | >> You can't search the content of the

109:05 | sticker.

109:06 | >> Right.

109:06 | >> So,

109:10 | >> your daughter's car again.

109:11 | >> Yeah.

109:14 | >> I can't believe mean if it is to be

109:16 | honest with you. The the randomness

109:18 | All right, so like

109:19 | >> That's a lot.

109:20 | >> Here's a random sticker, okay?

109:23 | >> bit for sure.

109:24 | >> But you can't like we can't search by I

109:28 | picked stickers.

109:29 | Do you see where it just

109:31 | randomly grabs a sticker.

109:34 | Um

109:35 | >> But that might might be the victim's

109:36 | only thing was, "Hey, I don't know what

109:37 | the car looked like so fast, but it had

109:39 | a bunch of it had a front headlight out

109:41 | or it had a

109:43 | Yes, stickers on the back.

109:45 | >> Okay, you know, I don't know what

109:46 | stickers. Okay, it was red. We'll look

109:48 | for a red car.

109:49 | >> search criteria, not necessarily license

109:51 | plate. We can search color, make, and

109:53 | sticker. Color, make, and year.

109:56 | >> You need a couple identifiers. So like

109:58 | if you search just red,

110:00 | you're going to get it's going to

110:01 | overwhelm you, okay? If you get red

110:03 | sedan or you get red hatchback or you

110:06 | get red with a sticker, you need

110:07 | something to eliminate out

110:09 | other stuff.

110:10 | >> Yeah, like this search it went from like

110:11 | 1,400 down to six by adding stickers.

110:14 | >> Uh but I I

110:15 | walked out.

110:17 | Um

110:19 | I I kept it as a red car, sedan, you

110:21 | know, I narrowed it down. Um we had a

110:23 | hit-and-run where somebody was seriously

110:26 | seriously injured and the only thing we

110:27 | had, white car.

110:30 | We had a discrepancy at We knew it was a

110:31 | white sedan and it had a big sticker in

110:33 | the back window.

110:35 | And it took us weeks to figure it out,

110:37 | okay? And the person was like serious

110:39 | injury serious injury to the point where

110:41 | we were concerned they were going to die

110:42 | at first. Um but that's all we had to go

110:45 | with and we didn't have this system

110:46 | then. Um

110:49 | but I mean it does not give you

110:52 | um a whole lot to search other than

110:55 | that it's got a sticker.

110:56 | Um

110:58 | like

111:00 | >> You can't see You can't see the person

111:01 | driving.

111:02 | >> see the person in there.

111:03 | >> No.

111:03 | >> That's the best resolution you got.

111:05 | >> You know how like when you use your

111:06 | iPhone, it's got that yellow box?

111:09 | So the yellow box is looking for that

111:12 | plate. That's what it's it's aimed at

111:13 | that for an angle. That's why they use

111:15 | 12 to 14 ft. Um and that's

111:18 | >> possible right conditions and light and

111:20 | stuff you can get a picture.

111:21 | >> It's just

111:22 | luck.

111:23 | >> Yeah.

111:23 | >> Like it's literally cuz it's taking so

111:25 | many pictures so quickly, you'd have to

111:27 | you know, you could turn and not be

111:28 | facing I suppose, but

111:30 | >> Um

111:31 | >> generally we can't really tell who is

111:33 | driving. You know, people go up there

111:35 | like that's the car and then a lot of

111:36 | times that's the follow-up

111:37 | investigation.

111:38 | >> Yeah.

111:39 | >> If someone is in that passenger seat of

111:40 | the opposite side of the road, like you

111:42 | could probably see their face in that

111:43 | picture.

111:44 | >> They're not in the But you couldn't make

111:45 | them out.

111:46 | >> But you might get enough

111:48 | >> But some software enhancements can kind

111:49 | of pick can can

111:50 | >> I mean that we don't have them sitting

111:52 | there.

111:52 | >> So you can't do it, but some but

111:54 | potentially somebody else has.

111:55 | >> I'm sure the CIA could do a lot.

111:57 | >> They can do it from space now, right?

111:59 | >> I mean they're very able to do it and it

112:00 | is is pretty much

112:01 | >> build rockets for a living, so.

112:02 | >> Oh,

112:03 | wrong three letters to choose cuz

112:05 | they're not supposed to operate in the

112:07 | US.

112:09 | >> I'm going to try to look for a head-on

112:10 | picture and I'm not getting one to give

112:13 | you an idea of like the quality of an

112:15 | image.

112:16 | >> Well, it seems pretty good.

112:17 | >> Now, sometimes like what's helpful is if

112:20 | like on 169, if you're looking for a car

112:23 | at 3:00 in the morning, it's such a

112:25 | small pool of cars because you know, but

112:27 | now if you're looking at you know, 8:00

112:30 | in the morning when everybody's

112:30 | commuting to work, you might have

112:32 | hundreds of cars that go by with bumper

112:34 | stickers and things. I'm that's

112:35 | exaggerating a little bit, but versus

112:37 | you know, if 3:00 in the morning they

112:39 | went by with a bumper sticker, well,

112:41 | you'd probably be able to find it pretty

112:42 | quickly.

112:43 | >> That's the same camera I showed you a

112:44 | minute ago with the car coming at us

112:47 | and you can't see the driver.

112:48 | >> Yeah, I know.

112:49 | >> It is focused the primary image is the

112:51 | license plate.

112:53 | But I do think it's possible that you

112:55 | could get

112:55 | >> You could see a person. I mean,

112:56 | depending on where you are when it

112:58 | snapped the picture, you might, but you

113:00 | might not.

113:01 | But with you know, with slightly

113:02 | advanced cameras, you know, the next the

113:04 | next range whatever probably probably,

113:07 | but not currently.

113:09 | >> Well, I appreciate

113:10 | >> Yeah.

113:10 | >> all the information and all that.

113:13 | >> If you come up with any If you have any

113:14 | other questions, let