2026-10-19 - Special Town Meeting

00:08I'll start again. For the record, it is

00:10October 19th, 2026, and it is 7:18 p.m.

00:15I hereby call our town meeting to order.

00:22Per town of Charlton general bylaws,

00:24chapter 15, section 2, the warrant

00:27serving as the official notice of

00:29tonight's meeting was duly posted on

00:31October 1st, 2026 at each of the two

00:35post offices, town hall, and Dexter

00:37Memorial Hall located at the Charlton

00:39Public Library.

00:41Thank you all for coming this evening to

00:43discuss and vote on the articles before

00:45us.

00:47In the event of an emergency, please

00:49exit the auditorium, follow the posting

00:51exit signs both at the front and the

00:54rear of the auditorium.

00:56There are many people who are involved

00:58in making this meeting happen. I'd like

01:00to offer a special thank you. On my

01:03left, town clerk Karen LaCroix.

01:06Oh.

01:09Yes, agreed. Agreed.

01:11Uh let's see. Assistant town clerk Elise

01:13Cunningham checking people in. All

01:14right.

01:15Our finance director and town accountant

01:17Ashley Ober- Oberzut.

01:20And members of the finance committee,

01:21Hank Kaminski, chairperson. Ray Ray

01:24Bellacito.

01:26Alicia Jeek. Brian Finnegan, Jeremy

01:28Foskett, and Jamie Terry who is couldn't

01:31be here this evening.

01:33Also, a thank you to Kristen Lemire who

01:35recently resigned from the finance

01:37committee. We thank Kristen for her

01:38years of service.

01:43>> [applause]

01:45>> Since I have your attention and you

01:47proved that a moment ago,

01:50the finance committee has two open

01:52seats. If you have any interest and any

01:54um experience, financial experience, or

01:57municipal experience, um please uh make

01:59a point to come see me and uh fin fin

02:02finance committee chairperson Hank

02:04Kaminski.

02:07On my right, thank you to Charlton Town

02:09Council Robert Hanegan, town

02:11administrator Andrew Golis, members of

02:13our select board Stephen Karonis,

02:16chairperson,

02:17David Singer, vice chairperson, Michael

02:20Kevorkian, clerk,

02:22Karen Spiwak, member, Barbara

02:25Ziemislawski, member.

02:27And a few people not on stage I'd like

02:29to thank is to the volunteers in the

02:31hallway checking in people, to the

02:33planning board for their work on the

02:34sponsored articles tonight,

02:37to the assistant town administrator Mary

02:39Devlin for her continued support, to

02:41director Jeff Saul and AV expert Drew

02:44Anderson for providing sound and video

02:46for tonight's meeting.

02:49Thank you all for your commitment to the

02:51town of Charlton.

03:00We also welcome non-residents and

03:02residents who are not registered to vote

03:04to observe our town meeting,

03:07whom we ask to please take a seat in the

03:09designated areas which are located in

03:11the front of the auditorium as marked by

03:13reserved signs in the two rows are right

03:15here as I'm pointing out.

03:18These attendees are not allowed to speak

03:20during the meeting unless called upon by

03:22the moderator and voted by a majority of

03:25town meeting voters.

03:28Upon arrival, all voters should have

03:30received

03:32a copy of the warrant as shown

03:36and an electronic voting device.

03:40The voting device must be returned at

03:42the end of the meeting.

03:44If you need to leave the building for

03:45any reason, please return your voting

03:47device to the table at the entrance and

03:49ensure that it is not handed to another

03:52person. We do not want to delay this

03:54meeting if a device is taken or being

03:57improperly used. In a moment, we will

03:59test those devices before we begin.

04:03All registered voters shall remain

04:05seated during the meeting. Please be

04:07respectful and refrain from side

04:09conversations.

04:11Conversations detract from the ability

04:13of other voters to hear the proceedings.

04:16>> [snorts]

04:16>> You may rise to the point of privilege

04:19anytime you are unable to hear by

04:21saying, "Moderator, I rise to a point of

04:24order."

04:26Or it can be as easy as calling out, "I

04:28can't hear."

04:32I I got that one from the prior

04:33moderator, so I can't take credit for

04:35it.

04:38I am advised to inform you concerning

04:41disorderly conduct that under

04:42Massachusetts General Law, chapter 39,

04:45section 17, if you fail to comply with

04:49our established protocols, you will be

04:51warned by me,

04:53then asked to withdraw from the meeting,

04:55and then removed from the meeting if

04:57necessary.

04:59Thank you in advance for following our

05:01town meeting expectations.

05:06At this time, I ask you to rise, remove

05:08your hats, and join me in the Pledge of

05:09Allegiance. Please remain standing after

05:12the pledge for a moment of silence.

05:23>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

05:26United States of America, and to the

05:29republic for which it stands, one nation

05:32under God, indivisible, with liberty and

05:35justice for all.

05:39>> Please remain standing for a moment of

05:41silence as we reflect and honor the

05:43patriots of 250 years ago who paved the

05:46path of liberty so we may gather here

05:48tonight.

05:56Thank you. Please have a seat.

06:09At this time, I need to review some

06:11general reminders for the benefit of all

06:13and most especially those new to our

06:15town meeting protocols.

06:18Some of you may already be familiar with

06:19our procedures and I ask for your

06:21patience while we ensure that all

06:23present understand the rules and how and

06:26when to participate.

06:28You will also know note I will be

06:30sharing information that is already

06:32printed in your copy of today's warrant.

06:35Please know that I'm doing this for the

06:37benefit of people at home who are

06:38watching this meeting remotely.

06:42Town meeting is the legislative body for

06:44the town of Charlton and per town

06:46bylaws, chapter 15, section 7, we follow

06:49parliamentary procedures found in a book

06:52titled Town Meeting Time

06:55as you can see here,

06:57which is published by the Massachusetts

06:59Moderators Association. It's an

07:01important reference to keep us all on

07:03the same page and it is necessary for

07:05elected moderators to read the book and

07:07learn the protocols.

07:09I will guide the meeting tonight as we

07:11move forward.

07:17Please know, excuse me, please know all

07:19discussion must be directed through the

07:21moderator. When considering an action on

07:23an article, I will call for a motion on

07:25the article and then a second on the

07:28motion.

07:29I may ask for the recommendation of the

07:31Finance Committee, Select Board, or

07:33other board as appropriate.

07:36I will then open the floor for any

07:37discussion on the matter. If you wish to

07:40speak, please approach the microphones

07:42and wait until called upon by the

07:44moderator.

07:46Then state your full name and

07:47residential address in Charlton. You

07:49will need to do this each time you

07:51return to the microphone.

07:54Once I have recognized you, each voter

07:56will have 3 minutes to speak.

07:59Please prepare your thoughts and

08:00questions in advance.

08:02I will use the timer on my iPhone to

08:04ensure all voters have an equal

08:06opportunity to participate.

08:09All comments or questions must be

08:11directed to me and information shared

08:13must be relevant to the issue being

08:15discussed.

08:17All questions and discussion must be

08:19restricted to the matters of business at

08:21hand, specifically the article in the

08:24warrant for which a main motion has been

08:26made.

08:27Discussion of any other issue not

08:30outlined in the warrant will not be

08:32allowed.

08:34If needed, I will call upon town

08:36officials to respond as appropriate.

08:40Please avoid matters of personality.

08:44It is not appropriate to refer to other

08:46voters by name nor call upon others to

08:49speak.

08:51After discussion on the main motion has

08:53begun, if you wish to make a motion to

08:55amend the main motion, it must be

08:57addressed at the microphone and

09:00submitted in writing to me for review.

09:02There are forms up front here on the

09:04table that we ask that you fill out and

09:07have a a prepared if you have a plan to

09:10amend a motion.

09:14If there is a motion to amend and a

09:16second, the amendment will be considered

09:18first and then will require a majority

09:21vote of town meeting.

09:26When I call for a vote, your voting

09:28device will be activated.

09:30Press the green or it says 1A button for

09:34yes.

09:36Press the red or 2B button for no.

09:41Please be aware the remaining buttons

09:43are not used at all.

09:45And please make note that the third

09:47button indicates the letters ABS.

09:50This does not mean absolutely.

09:57I got that feedback the other day.

10:00If you wish to abstain from a vote, then

10:03you don't select any button at all.

10:06Feel free to refer to page two of your

10:09warrant booklet for a photograph and

10:11more detailed instructions.

10:15You may press multiple times.

10:18But the last vote you register will be

10:20the one that's recorded.

10:23Your voting device will show the word

10:25okay when your vote has been received by

10:28the voting system.

10:31We will use a test question to practice

10:33with the devices.

10:35And I'm Our town clerk is going to pull

10:37that up on the screen.

10:40Practice question, do you hand out candy

10:43on Halloween?

10:46Please vote now.

10:59>> [clears throat]

11:04>> 10 seconds remaining.

11:16Please stop voting.

11:18Thank you.

11:20We have recorded 207 in the affirmative

11:23and 146 against.

11:27The motion is adopted.

11:31I was glad it wasn't the other way

11:33around. The kids would be um stricken of

11:35candy in Charlton.

11:38I will now share with you the return of

11:41the warrant.

11:55Warrant for special town meeting,

11:57Monday, October 19th, 2026.

12:00To either of the constables of the town

12:02of Charlton in the county of Worcester,

12:05greetings. In the name of the

12:06Commonwealth of Massachusetts, you are

12:08hereby directed to notify the

12:09inhabitants of the town of Charlton

12:11qualified to vote in elections to meet

12:14in the Charlton Middle School, 2 Oxford

12:16Road, Charlton, Mass. On Monday, October

12:1919th, 2026 at 7:00 in the evening for

12:23the purposes of taking action on the

12:25following articles. I'm glad I had it

12:28accurate that time.

12:31Article 1, appropriation of funds for

12:33unpaid bills of a prior fiscal year. To

12:36see if the town will vote to raise by

12:39taxation, transfer, or borrow, and

12:41appropriate a sum or sums of accounts to

12:44be specified at the town meeting for

12:46payment of one or more fiscal years

12:49prior bills, fiscal years bills not paid

12:53due to an insufficiency or of

12:55appropriation or for other reasons, or

12:58take any action relative thereto or

13:00thereon.

13:03May I have a recommendation?

13:05Oh, excuse me.

13:07I I call for a motion.

13:10>> Mr. Moderator.

13:11I move that the town

13:13>> Steve, you got to go a little closer.

13:18>> I move that the following prior bills

13:21prior years bills not previously paid

13:23due to date to the late billing be paid

13:25from the following FY 2027 accounts as

13:28follows.

13:30Green dollars

13:31from the FY 27 municipal offices expense

13:34and equipment account to the Worcester

13:36Elevator Company,

13:38$294

13:39from the FY 27 sewer maintenance

13:41equipment account to Veolia North

13:43America,

13:45$294 from the FY 27 sewer maintenance

13:48equipment account to Veolia North

13:51America, and $3,725.64

13:56from the FY 27 sewer maintenance

13:58equipment account to Veolia North

14:00America.

14:01>> Thank you. Do I have a second from the

14:03floor?

14:04>> Second.

14:05>> Motion's been made and seconded. Do I

14:07have a recommendation of the Finance

14:08Committee?

14:09>> The Finance Committee supports this

14:10motion.

14:12>> Do I have a recommendation of the Select

14:14Board?

14:14>> The Select Board supports this motion.

14:16>> We will require a majority vote.

14:19Is there anything to be said on the

14:21matter?

14:26Seeing none,

14:28as I said, a majority vote will be

14:30required. It's time to vote. Please vote

14:32now.

14:34All those in favor vote by vote signify

14:37by voting yes, and if you're opposed,

14:39vote no.

14:5410 seconds remaining.

15:04Please stop voting.

15:06Thank you.

15:08We have recorded 336 affirmative votes

15:11and 20 votes against. The motion is

15:14adopted.

15:20Article two, inter- inter and intra

15:23departmental transfers and or

15:25appropriations for fiscal year 2027

15:28budget.

15:29To see if the town will vote to raise by

15:31taxation, borrow or transfer and

15:34appropriate from available funds

15:36including so-called free cash and or

15:39funds previously appropriated to other

15:41uses a sum or sums of money to accounts

15:45and for purposes to be specified at the

15:48town meeting or take any action relative

15:50there to or thereon.

15:53Do I have a motion?

15:56>> Mr. Moderator, I move to pass over this

15:58article indefinitely.

15:59>> Do I have a second?

16:01>> Second.

16:03>> What's the recommendation of the Finance

16:05Committee?

16:06>> Finance Committee supports this motion.

16:09>> May I please have a recommendation of

16:11the Select Board?

16:12>> The Select Board supports this motion.

16:14>> Is there anything to be said on the

16:16matter?

16:21Hearing none, a majority vote will be

16:23required here. It's time to vote. All

16:25those in favor please signify by voting

16:27yes. All those opposed please signify by

16:30voting no.

16:31Please vote now.

16:42Taking 10 seconds remaining.

16:52Please stop voting.

16:54We have recorded 308 votes in the

16:57affirmative and 36 votes against. The

17:00motion is adopted.

17:04Article three, amendments to the fiscal

17:07year 2027 budget. To see if the town

17:10will vote to amend the fiscal 2027

17:13budget voted at the May 2026 annual town

17:16meeting or take any action relative

17:19thereto or thereon.

17:21Do we have a motion?

17:23>> Mr. Moderator,

17:24I move that this article be passed over

17:26indefinitely.

17:28>> Do we have a second?

17:30>> Second.

17:31>> Motion's been made and seconded.

17:33May I please have the recommendation of

17:35the Finance Committee?

17:37>> The Finance Committee supports this

17:38motion.

17:39>> May I please have the recommendation of

17:41the Select Board?

17:42>> The Select Board supports this motion.

17:44>> Is there anything to be said on the

17:46matter?

17:51Hearing none,

17:53a majority vote will be required.

17:55All those in favor, please signify by

17:57voting yes. Those opposed, signify by

18:00voting no. Please vote now.

18:1610 seconds remaining.

18:24Please stop voting.

18:26We have recorded 315 votes in the

18:28affirmative

18:30and 29 votes against. The motion is

18:33adopted.

18:37Article 4.

18:40Miscellaneous capital items and related

18:42contracts. To see if the town will vote

18:45to raise by taxation, borrow, or

18:47transfer from available funds, including

18:50so-called free cash, and funds

18:52previously appropriated to other uses,

18:55and appropriate a sum or sums to

18:58purchase capital items

19:00and or for service, repair, improvement,

19:03architectural construction, renovation,

19:06improvement, and or other contracts

19:09relating to town buildings, facilities,

19:11or property, or to municipal services,

19:14and to authorize the select board, chief

19:17procurement officer, or other

19:19appropriate town official, board,

19:22commission, or committee to enter into

19:24such contracts or leases, and to take

19:26such other action as may be necessary or

19:29advisable to effectuate the purposes of

19:32such votes, or take any action relative

19:34thereto or thereon.

19:37Is there a motion?

19:39>> Mr. Moderator.

19:41>> Oh, just pull it forward.

19:45Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, it'll be right on

19:47it.

19:47>> I move that the town vote to transfer

19:49and appropriate the following amounts to

19:51the following departments respective

19:53accounts for the fiscal year 2027

19:55capital budget to be expended for the

19:57following purposes, each item being

20:00considered a separate appropriation, and

20:02to authorize the select board or chief

20:04procurement officer to enter in such

20:06contracts, including leases, and to take

20:09such other action as may be necessary or

20:11advisable to effectuate the purposes of

20:14the foregoing vote.

20:1650,000 from free cash for grant match

20:19and planning, 250,000 from free cash for

20:22a hydrologic and hydronic analysis of

20:26South Charlton Reservoir,

20:2850,000 from free cash for municipal

20:31building improvements, 80,000 from free

20:34cash for technology replacements and

20:36improvements,

20:38and 40,000 from free cash for

20:40replacement of carpeting at the at the

20:43library.

20:45>> Second.

20:46>> Thank you. We have a motion and a

20:48second.

20:49May I please have the recommendation of

20:51the finance committee?

20:53>> The

20:54The finance committee supports this

20:56motion.

20:57>> May I please have the recommendation of

20:59the select board?

21:00>> The select board supports this motion.

21:02>> Is there anything to be said on the

21:04matter?

21:05>> Mr. Mod

21:06>> Oh,

21:06I'm sorry.

21:07>> May May we

21:08>> Yeah, hold on 1 second. Go ahead.

21:11>> Yeah, there is a typo in our paperwork.

21:13>> This was 15.

21:15>> That's okay. I thought I heard that. So,

21:16I I Yeah, so the booklet is the typo's

21:19on the on the paper you're reading. So,

21:22we want to go back and clarify that.

21:24Conservation

21:2515,000, is that

21:27>> 15,000 for

21:49>> All right. Now, um go ahead.

21:51>> Stephen Sage, 41 Lincoln Point Road.

21:54Can we get a little bit of a

21:56idea of the scope of improvements for

21:57the

21:58municipal building as everything else is

22:00kind of said what it's for.

22:03>> I'll ask um the town administrator to

22:05answer that question.

22:06>> Mr. Moderator, this is primarily to go

22:08toward replacing various small capital

22:10items in our municipal buildings,

22:12primarily HVAC repairs in the town hall

22:14and at Fort River Health.

22:17>> Great. Thank you. Thank you very much.

22:19Is there any other Anything else to be

22:21said on this?

22:25All right.

22:27A majority will vote will be required.

22:29All those in favor, please signify by

22:31voting yes. All those opposed, please

22:33Oh, sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.

22:37>> Hello, Christopher Murillo, 47 Jenny's

22:40>> Oh, if you could I don't know if people

22:42can hear you. Go ahead. There you go.

22:44>> Hello, Christopher Murillo, 47 Jenny's

22:46Road. I was going to ask what is the

22:48exact department for information

22:50technology and what is the exact fiscal

22:53budget for 2027

22:55detailed for the certain technologies it

22:58is directed to for the fiscal year.

23:01>> I'll get an answer for you. Um Mr. Um I

23:03don't know who can answer that best.

23:06Our our town finance director.

23:08>> Off the top of my head, I don't know

23:10what his total budget is for the year,

23:12but the information technology, so that

23:1380,000 is for capital improvements

23:15town-wide. So, it would be replacing

23:18computers,

23:19um

23:20possible [snorts]

23:21like meeting room upgrades at the

23:22selectmen's uh office, but he uses it

23:24for um any IT improvements in town

23:28through any of the town buildings.

23:30>> All right, understood. Thank you.

23:32>> Thank you.

23:33Are there any other

23:36Are there any other

23:37questions on the matter or something to

23:39be said?

23:41All right.

23:42I know people probably already voted,

23:44but we haven't resolved uh finished

23:45that, so please please continue to vote

23:47if you haven't already or

23:50Oh, okay. So, it's sorry. So, it's open

23:52now. Voting now is open. Please signify

23:54by voting yes. All those in favor, and

23:56if you're opposed, signify by voting no.

24:1210 seconds remaining.

24:22Please stop voting.

24:25We have recorded 290 votes in the

24:27affirmative and 65 votes against. The

24:30motion is adopted.

24:33I am looking for motion number two.

24:36>> Mr. Moderator.

24:37>> I move that the town vote to transfer

24:40and appropriate the following amounts to

24:41the following departments' respective

24:43accounts for the fiscal year 2027

24:45capital budget to be expended for the

24:48following purposes, each item being

24:50considered a separate appropriation, and

24:52to authorize the select board or chief

24:55procurement officer to enter into such

24:57contracts including leases and to take

24:59such other action as may be necessary or

25:02advisable to effectuate the purposes of

25:06the foregoing vote.

25:08275,000 from free cash for the

25:11replacement of police cruisers.

25:13>> Is there a second?

25:16>> Second.

25:17>> Second. I hear the second, thank you.

25:19May I please have the recommendation of

25:20the finance committee?

25:21>> The finance committee supports this

25:23motion.

25:25>> And the recommendation of the select

25:26board?

25:27>> The select board supports the motion.

25:30>> Is there anything to be said on this

25:32matter?

25:36Go ahead.

25:37>> Stephen Sage, Lincoln Point Road. How

25:39many cruisers does this represent? Is

25:40this our usual two or is this three?

25:44>> Is that accurate?

25:46Go ahead.

25:47>> I believe it's three, but it also

25:48encompasses the technology that needs to

25:50go into the cruiser.

25:52Also.

25:55>> Thank you. Yes, go ahead.

25:57>> Gwendolyn Powell, uh

25:59235 uh Berlingame Road. Uh may I ask the

26:02urgency of replacing these cruisers and

26:05uh

26:06just in general like how urgent this is?

26:09>> Mr. Hank, do you

26:12So each year, this is not reoccurring,

26:14we get three cruisers, right? That's

26:17about the time that we lose three. And

26:19the reason why we do it on an ongoing

26:21basis, sometimes it can take a year,

26:24year and a half to get these cruisers.

26:25So you got to stay ahead of the game.

26:28>> Thank you.

26:29>> Thank you, Hank.

26:32Is there anything else to be said?

26:39This will require a majority vote.

26:42All those in favor, please signify by

26:43voting yes. All those opposed, please

26:46signify by voting no.

26:48Please vote now.

27:02>> 10 seconds remaining.

27:10Please stop voting.

27:12We have recorded 261 votes in the

27:14affirmative

27:16and 86 votes against with one

27:19abstention, but we're not using that

27:21button, so the motion is adopted.

27:29I'm looking for motion number three.

27:31>> Mr. Moderator,

27:32I move that the town vote to transfer

27:35and appropriate the following amounts to

27:37the following departments account for

27:38the fiscal year 2027 capital budget to

27:41be expended for the following purposes,

27:43each item being considered a separate

27:45appropriation, and to authorize the

27:47select board or chief procurement

27:49officer to enter into such contracts,

27:51including leases, and to take such

27:53action as may be necessary or advisable

27:56to effectuate the purpose of the

27:57foregoing vote. 110,000 from free cash

28:01for F-350 pickup truck support vehicle,

28:04100,000 from free cash to refurbish

28:07forestry one, and 61,000 from ambulance

28:10receipts reserved for appropriation for

28:12an ambulance life pack for the EMS car.

28:16>> Thank you. Is there a second?

28:17>> Second.

28:18>> Motion's been made and seconded. May I

28:21please have the recommendation of the

28:22Finance Committee?

28:23>> The Finance Committee supports this

28:25motion.

28:27>> May I please have the recommendation of

28:28the Select Board?

28:29>> The Select Board supports this motion.

28:32>> Is there anything to be said?

28:38Seeing none, we will require a majority

28:41vote. All those in favor, please signify

28:43by voting yes. All those opposed, please

28:45signify by voting no. Please vote now.

28:5510 seconds remaining.

29:05Please stop voting.

29:07We have recorded 287 affirmative votes

29:11and 69 votes against. The motion is

29:13adopted.

29:16I'm looking for motion number four.

29:18>> Mr. Moderator.

29:21I move the town vote and transfer

29:25Sorry. Vote to transfer and appropriate

29:27the following amounts to the following

29:28departments account for the fiscal year

29:302027 capital budget to be expended for

29:33the following purposes each item being

29:36considered a separate appropriation and

29:38to authorize the select board or chief

29:40procurement officer to enter into such

29:42contracts including leases and to take

29:45such other action as may be necessary or

29:47advisable to effectuate the

29:50the purpose of the foregoing vote.

29:52140,000 from free cash for F350 utility

29:56bucket lift pickup.

29:58300,000 from free cash for an excavator

30:01with rotary mower.

30:0250,000 from free cash for a wood

30:04chipper.

30:0524,000 from free cash for paving of the

30:08cemetery road.

30:098,000 from free cash for a Kubota

30:11tractor accessories.

30:1325,000 from sewer retained earnings for

30:16sewer plant office renovations.

30:20>> Second.

30:21>> Thank you. Motion's been made and

30:22seconded. May have May I please have the

30:25recommendation of the Finance Committee?

30:26>> The Finance Committee supports this

30:28motion.

30:29>> And the recommendation of the Select

30:30Board, please?

30:31>> The Select Board supports this motion.

30:34>> Is there anything to be said on the

30:35matter?

30:42Hearing none, this will require a

30:43majority vote. All those in favor,

30:45please signify by voting yes. All those

30:47opposed, please signify by voting no.

30:50Please vote now.

31:0310 seconds remaining.

31:16Please stop voting.

31:18We have recorded 280 affirmative

31:21affirmative votes

31:22and 70 votes against. The motion is

31:25adopted.

31:27Article 5

31:30New Senior Community Center and Police

31:33Department parking expansion design

31:35phase.

31:36To see if the town will vote to raise

31:38and appropriate funds by borrowing,

31:40taxation, transfer from available funds,

31:44or otherwise, a sum of money to pay

31:46costs of a schematic design services, as

31:49well as retaining of an owner's project

31:52manager for design and construction of

31:55of a new senior community center to be

31:59located on Masonic Home Road and

32:02additional parking for the Police

32:03Department, including payments of costs

32:06incidental and related thereto, or take

32:09any action relative thereto or thereon.

32:13Do I have a motion?

32:15>> Mr. Moderator.

32:17I move that the town vote to transfer

32:19and appropriate the sum of $500,000 from

32:23available free cash to the new Senior

32:26Community Center and Police Department

32:29parking expansion design phase account

32:32number as written for the purpose set

32:35forth in the article, and to authorize

32:37the select board and or the chief

32:39procurement officer to enter into such

32:41contracts and agreements and to take any

32:44other action as they deem necessary or

32:47advisable to effectuate the purpose of

32:49the foregoing vote.

32:51>> Thank you. Before I get the

32:52recommendation, you'll note in your

32:54warrant that the

32:56B was

32:58there was a correction to the state B B

33:00statement and that's because the lease

33:03and acquisition of interest to land was

33:05an error and that's out of scope based

33:07on the article, so that was removed.

33:11>> Second.

33:12>> Motion has been made and seconded. Do I

33:14have a recommendation of the finance

33:15committee?

33:16>> The finance committee supports this

33:18motion.

33:19>> Recommendation of the select board.

33:21>> The select board supports this motion.

33:24>> Is there anything to be said on the

33:25matter?

33:35>> Yes.

33:36>> Right in.

33:37>> That's Stockwell.

33:39>> Oh, yeah.

33:40Thank you.

33:42>> I'm the chair of the senior community

33:44center feasibility committee. We were

33:46charged four years ago by the select

33:48board to find a solution that would

33:49serve the whole community.

33:51After researching several options, we

33:53are here today to ask the community to

33:55approve

33:57Sorry.

33:58Sorry.

33:59After researching several options, we

34:01are here today to ask the community to

34:03approve the next design phase for a

34:05senior community center on Masonic Home

34:07Road next to the police station. We are

34:10recommending a new build as designed by

34:12Liro Hill on this 23 and 1/2 acre

34:15property that is centrally located on

34:17town-owned land and where there were

34:19previously vetted

34:21>> Yeah, we need to

34:22Yeah, we need one second.

34:23>> previously vetted site plans for public

34:26safety building and known topographic

34:28conditions.

34:29>> So, yeah, we're going to we're going to

34:31start over. Can you Can you adjust that,

34:33Drew?

34:34Yeah, so you're going to get right into

34:35the mic. Sorry, I know it's a pain, but

34:39There is feedback. There is feedback,

34:41Drew.

34:43Can you Can you Can you mute the other

34:45mics while we're doing that?

34:48>> How's that?

34:49>> Oh, that's better.

34:50>> Should I start over?

34:52>> Don't you mind, though.

34:53>> Should I start over?

34:54>> Yeah, would you start over, Pat? Thank

34:56you.

34:56>> Pat Stockwell, Sunset Drive. I am the

34:59chair of the Senior Community Center

35:00Feasibility Committee. We were charged 4

35:03years ago by the Select Board to find a

35:04solution that would serve the whole

35:06community. After researching several

35:09options, we are here today to ask the

35:10community to approve the next design

35:13phase for a Senior Community Center on

35:15Masonic Home Road, next to the police

35:17station. We are recommending a new build

35:20as designed by Liro Hill on this 23 and

35:231/2 acre property that is centrally

35:25located on town-owned land, and where

35:27there were previously vetted site plans

35:29for a public safety building and known

35:31topographic conditions.

35:33The financial impact and timeline is

35:35estimated to be the same for this site

35:37as for our other options, but with many

35:39more advantages. So, knowing we won't be

35:41starting from ground zero on this

35:43property is a huge plus.

35:45The site itself has many advantages. It

35:48has sidewalk access to many community

35:50venues both in the town center and in

35:53Shelton City. The building will be

35:54located on a single floor with

35:56same-level accessibility from all

35:58parking areas.

36:00The site has access to tie-ins for town

36:02water and sewer utilities. It has access

36:05to tie into municipal fiber for internet

36:07access.

36:09It is also across the street from the

36:11Overlook Senior Living Facility.

36:13The site has the potential for

36:15much-needed parking space both for the

36:17center itself and for an expanded police

36:19parking lot.

36:20It is a large lot with wetlands, trees,

36:23and open space, which offers a great

36:24opportunity for walking paths and hiking

36:27trails, potentially even tied in with

36:29Overlook's trails.

36:31It has the potential to place the new

36:34bandshell, paid for by Amazon, at this

36:36location for outdoor concerts.

36:39A new senior center, specifically, will

36:41free up much-needed space for municipal

36:43offices in the town hall.

36:46And a new community center will relieve

36:48pressure and complement services offered

36:50by our wonderful library.

36:53And finally, I just want to say this

36:54article is only asking for a transfer of

36:56funds for the design phase. It is not

36:59authorizing construction of a new

37:00center, which will potentially come much

37:02later if approved at additional town

37:05meeting and ballot votes.

37:07Thank you.

37:09>> I now go ahead.

37:13Yeah, I know. I know.

37:15>> My name is Bruce Smanen, five Pine Lane.

37:17I serve with Pat and several other folks

37:20on the signing feasibility committee.

37:22Um I want to talk a little bit about the

37:24current site and why we need an improved

37:26site. Um the current site has two

37:28floors.

37:30It has accessibility compliance

37:32challenges, which is a polite way of

37:34saying if you have a walker in a

37:36wheelchair, you're really challenged to

37:37get to the bathroom.

37:39Um the proposed plan would provide fully

37:41accessible space dedicated for use by

37:44seniors to enhance current programming

37:46and expand services available,

37:48socialization, informational and

37:51educational, cultural, medical and

37:53benefit support, and other activities.

37:55The proposed senior community center

37:57creates new office space designed to

37:59provide privacy for individual meetings,

38:02consultations, and assessments for

38:04seniors that is not available at the

38:06current site. It is significantly

38:08increases storage space for supplies and

38:10durable medical equipment, which are

38:13currently housed in all program spaces.

38:16The expanded space in the new senior

38:18community center allows for concurrent

38:21programs to be run during the day,

38:23something that is limited at the current

38:25site due to the size restrictions.

38:28The expanded size of the proposed senior

38:30community center project offers

38:32additional space to provide a broader

38:33range and scope of classes and programs

38:37to meet the varied needs of seniors in

38:39accordance with their various

38:41capabilities and interests, as well as

38:43allowing programming that meets the

38:44seniors where they are, such as recently

38:47retired, active agers, or those with

38:50more limitations. Current space

38:51limitations make that challenging. It'll

38:54provide upwards of 100 parking spaces.

38:56The current senior center has 13 parking

38:58spaces. Those additional parking spaces

39:01would support a range of other

39:02activities that might be possible for

39:04larger use of the senior community

39:06center and the entire property.

39:08The proposed site design allows for the

39:10senior center to create outdoor

39:12activities for attendees, such as

39:14barbecues, gardening, and landscaping.

39:16Housing the senior center in a dedicated

39:18senior community center building will

39:20enhance opportunities for interaction

39:22between seniors and the greater

39:24community, especially if the town

39:26decides to expand the use of the entire

39:28property to address other possibilities.

39:30Thank you for your time.

39:32>> Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll go

39:34on this side now. Go ahead.

39:36>> Um Patricia Reddick, 58 Daniels Road. Um

39:40be I plan to make a motion. Um before I

39:43do so, I just wanted to briefly explain

39:45why I'm trying what I'm trying to

39:47accomplish. I support moving forward

39:49with the design process for a new senior

39:51center. My concern is that we have an

39:54opportunity while we are um spending all

39:56this money on the design to look at this

39:59property more comprehensively.

40:01Um with approximately 20 acres, um

40:05before we determine where buildings,

40:07parking, utilities, and other

40:08infrastructure will go, I believe we

40:10should evaluate whether the site can

40:13also accommodate recreational or

40:15multi-generational community uses.

40:18Um I'm not asking us tonight to approve

40:21athletic fields or build anything

40:23additional or commit any additional

40:26funding. I'm so simply asking that those

40:29possibilities be considered during the

40:31design phase uh before decisions are

40:33made um that could have unintentionally

40:35eliminate them. Um planning for the

40:38whole property now makes much more sense

40:40than wishing we had um done so later. Um

40:44so uh I would like to move to amend

40:47Article 5 by adding the following

40:49language.

40:51>> I'll I'll take I'll take that.

40:54>> Can I

40:54>> Oh oh oh, sorry. I Yeah, go ahead.

40:58>> Um I after the word um police

41:01department, I want to add including

41:04evaluation in schematic design of the

41:07site for multi-generational community

41:09use including recreational fields and

41:12associated parking.

41:15>> That one said that.

41:16>> Yep, so I'll take that. I need to look

41:17at that.

41:21>> So we emphasizing the community center.

41:27>> Just one moment.

41:48I'm going to consult with our legal

41:50counsel.

42:20>> Thank you for the motion. I'm The motion

42:22is out of order. It's out of scope

42:24because it

42:25based on the town meeting time

42:27regulations,

42:29it is outside of the scope because based

42:31on the reasonableness test because

42:33someone looking at the warrant article

42:36as printed would not jump to assume

42:39recreational fields would be included in

42:41that. So, that is outside of scope and

42:43it's out of order. So, I cannot allow

42:45the motion to continue.

42:47Um so, carry on with the discussion. We

42:48are back to the original motion that was

42:51already on the floor. Thank you.

42:56Go ahead.

42:59>> North Service Road

43:00>> Uh

43:01just a minute. Go ahead. Yeah, try to

43:02talk right into it.

43:03>> Frank Iacono, 66 North Service Road.

43:07Uh a few weeks ago we had a we had a

43:08vote in town here about a large tax

43:12increase cuz we need a lot of borrowing

43:14to do what the town described as basic

43:17maintenance on our schools

43:20because we couldn't afford that.

43:22>> Yeah.

43:23>> And that vote failed.

43:24>> So, sir, that's I

43:25>> Well, that's It's just a point I was

43:26>> But yeah, you cannot make that point

43:27because it's not within the four points

43:29of the article. We're talking

43:30specifically of article five. It has to

43:33be about this.

43:34>> Specifically to article five, to make it

43:37brief and save your time,

43:39we don't have the money. If we can't

43:41afford to support the youngest

43:43generations in this town, we don't have

43:45the money to support the oldest

43:46generations in this town.

43:49Invest in your youth before anything

43:51else.

43:52Don't take from the future to support

43:54the past.

43:55That's all. Thank you.

43:56>> Thank you for your time.

43:59Now, now. No, no, no.

44:01We're not We're not going to do that.

44:04Go ahead.

44:05>> Mr. Moderator, can you hear me?

44:06>> Right in. Yep, there you go.

44:07>> I should know this by now, right? Miss

44:09Moderator, um Karen Spiwak, 187 Sunset

44:12Drive.

44:13>> Yeah, I can't hear her. Uh we need to

44:15I'm remain silent while we talk. Thank

44:17you.

44:18>> Karen Spiwak, 187 Sunset Drive.

44:23I'm asking the voters tonight to please

44:25support by this article by voting yes. A

44:28yes vote will allow the proposed

44:30Charlton Senior Community Center planned

44:32next to the Charlton Police Department

44:34to advance to its next phase.

44:36The plan also includes much-needed

44:38additional parking for the Police

44:39Department, open space, and space for

44:41community events. A yes vote will

44:43authorize, again as we said, the

44:45transfer of funds. This is not a tax

44:47increase. This is the process you go

44:49through when you want a project a

44:51municipal project to move forward.

44:53Charlton's growing senior population has

44:55long since outgrown its current space in

44:57the Town Hall's basement. These

44:59residents are our neighbors, relatives,

45:01and friends that need deserve a modern,

45:03safe, accessible center designed to meet

45:06their needs with hours of independent of

45:09the current Town Hall limitations.

45:11According to the National Council on

45:13Aging, research shows older adults who

45:16participate in senior center programs

45:19can learn to manage and delay the onset

45:21of chronic disease and experience

45:23measurable improvements in their

45:25physical, social, spiritual, emotional,

45:28mental, and economic well-being. Key

45:31factors of senior centers include social

45:33connected connection, health fitness

45:36programs that improve mobility, balance,

45:38and strength while focusing on reducing

45:41fall risk, nutritional support, computer

45:44training, and support services including

45:46health and insurance counseling,

45:48transportation coordination, tax

45:51preparation assistance, and more for a

45:53free or significantly reduced price.

45:57Our seniors have consistently supported

45:59our community from our children's

46:01education to public safety. Now it's our

46:05turn to support a project that will

46:06serve some of our most vulnerable

46:08residents. A yes vote on this is an

46:10investment in our future and in theirs.

46:13And I say, my personal opinion, is we

46:16cannot afford not to do this. Many of us

46:18can afford the health clubs, the the the

46:21tax people to do our taxes, so on and so

46:23forth. There's many seniors out there

46:25this is their lifeline, folks. Think

46:28about how many miles in travel. Think

46:30about as people age and you lose your

46:32partner and now you're sitting there and

46:34maybe you don't know how to do certain

46:36things. You don't have the the means to

46:38do it. This vote tonight is a will

46:41directly impact and reflect our moral

46:44compass as a town. Please support our

46:48seniors. Thank you.

46:50>> THANK YOU.

46:52>> [applause]

46:57>> GO AHEAD.

46:58>> I HENRY KAMINSKI, 10 Ebalou's Road.

47:02And I would ask the meeting tonight to

47:04please

47:05approve this motion.

47:07It takes more We've got a great town

47:09here. We've got a great police

47:10department, fire department. We've got a

47:13tremendous highway department. They keep

47:15our town good. But it takes more than

47:17just those things and a great school

47:18system.

47:20But it takes more than those things to

47:21make a good town a great town.

47:24Almost 30% of our residents are over the

47:26age of 55. And I think by 2030 they're

47:30going to be more like I know 35 or 37.

47:34It's important we take care of all the

47:36residents and we offer all the residents

47:38in town the best we can. So I'd ask you

47:40to approve this motion.

47:48>> Is there any anything else to be said on

47:50the matter?

47:58>> Somebody's coming.

48:04>> Yeah, turn it feel free to put it turn

48:06it up. Yeah. I mean no, I mean turn it

48:08up towards you. Yeah. There you go.

48:11>> Uh Robert

48:12>> Whoop, right into it.

48:13>> Robert

48:15Robert Cronin, 25 Estabrook Drive

48:18Uh

48:20speaking to suggest that uh

48:23people are talking about whether we are

48:25in favor of a senior center or opposed

48:27to a senior center, but I think we

48:29should consider that if we're built

48:31making a big investment in a new

48:32facility, it should be the best facility

48:34possible, not only a senior center, but

48:38uh e-

48:39to provide

48:41more

48:41resources is for the town. Uh

48:45I know the water and sewer commission is

48:46uh looking for uh more office space, for

48:49example, and uh if we uh pump the brakes

48:52and have a building that can do even

48:55more, then it will be a better long-term

48:58investment for our town. Because if we

49:00take the time to get this right, not too

49:01much time. People obviously are uh

49:04have been waiting for a while, but this

49:06building is going to be up uh hopefully

49:08for uh many years to come, and it will

49:10serve the town.

49:12And uh if we vote no, then we can have a

49:15uh better design in the future.

49:17And you know,

49:18it's going to uh spend a lot of money

49:20that uh could have been spent on

49:22something else like a better uh

49:24facility. And uh I say this as somebody

49:26who thinks that yes, a town with a lot

49:28of seniors should have a modern senior

49:30center, but it should have uh so much

49:32more. And uh the most efficient way is

49:35to uh get this one right.

49:37Uh

49:39Thank you.

49:44>> Go ahead.

49:45>> Yeah, Brian Powers, Partridge Hill Road,

49:47Charlton. Uh this is now I know we just

49:50changed the name of this to the senior

49:52and community center. Can we get some

49:54clarification of which aspects are the

49:56community center? Like what what is

49:59added beyond what's currently the senior

50:01center?

50:01>> Yep, let me forget an answer for you on

50:03that. Yep, just a moment. Did um Tom

50:05administrator, should I call the

50:06committee chair?

50:08Yep, so Pat Pat Stockwell is the

50:10committee chair of the

50:12of the senior center renovation, so I'd

50:13ask Pat to answer that question.

50:20>> Okay, the building has been designed so

50:22that it can be used as both a senior

50:24center and a community center. Um

50:27we actually went to Wayland and saw an

50:30example of that during the during the

50:31day Monday through Thursday, it's

50:34dedicated to the seniors and then

50:36evenings and weekends, it can be used by

50:38the community. So there's only a certain

50:40section of it where the administrative

50:41offices are that would be closed off

50:43when a community events were going on.

50:45Plus we have outdoor activities we can

50:47do now which is not possible today.

50:50>> So so

50:51So this design phase will be part of

50:53integrating these other community

50:55elements as well.

50:56>> question.

50:57>> Correct.

50:58>> Based on the the

50:59>> It's it's it's what she said it the

51:02community center as she described it.

51:05>> All right, so they're adding more things

51:06based on the

51:07I know they took a survey and stuff like

51:09that. Some of those things will be added

51:10to it.

51:10>> I'm going to ask Pat to I can't comment

51:12on that the survey

51:14>> Basically yes. I mean most of the

51:16feedback we got was regarding the

51:18seniors, but yes, we did get some

51:19community feedback and I mean there's

51:21activity rooms, there's all kinds of

51:23things that the community would be able

51:25to use in that building.

51:26>> I'm

51:27approving of that.

51:28>> Okay,

51:29thank you. Thank you.

51:32>> Thank you for your time.

51:34>> All right, now

51:38>> Uh

51:38Dan Prouty 134 Partridge Hill Road.

51:41>> Yeah, could you talk you got to talk

51:43>> Okay, I'm sorry. Is that better?

51:44>> Sorry about the technical difficulties

51:46tonight.

51:46>> Okay, Dan Prouty, 134 Partridge Road. Uh

51:49it's just a matter of semantics. This

51:52$500,000, that's the design of the

51:54building. It It reads like it's a design

51:57of the site.

52:00>> So, I can ask our town administrator to

52:02answer that question.

52:03>> It's schematic design of the site.

52:05>> Just the site?

52:06>> Site and building.

52:07>> Okay, excuse me.

52:09I'm before the planning board now

52:12with a site design

52:14for about 600 parking spaces.

52:18And the engineering's run 60 to 70,000

52:21dollars.

52:22And that's wetland mapping, the whole

52:24thing.

52:25So, why does it cost me

52:28as a developer for 50 years 60 to 70,000

52:32dollars

52:33and cost the town 500,000?

52:36>> Yeah, I I hear you called on for your

52:37question and I'm going to ask um I don't

52:39know if Andrew of Finance Committee can

52:41answer that question.

52:45>> Do you want her?

52:46>> No, I got it. Go yeah, so town

52:48administrator is going to answer that.

52:49Go ahead.

52:49>> Uh Mr. Moderator, this is um an estimate

52:52as to where we're at in the in the

52:53process.

52:57Based off of where we're at in the

52:57process and unknown of what the scope of

53:00building or the site is going to be,

53:02um any unused funds will be used to go

53:05toward the entirety of the construction

53:07project.

53:09>> Does that answer your question?

53:11>> No, because I I just can't see the the

53:14difference.

53:15>> Yeah, it's a town meeting. You can talk

53:16into the mic.

53:17>> to talk against the need. I'm just

53:20talking about I don't want to see it go

53:22in a site that's so expensive that when

53:25they come back, it's a million or two

53:27million dollars more than the town can

53:29afford.

53:31I mean I've I've been in the business

53:33for over 50 years.

53:35I've developed industrial parks.

53:37And I And I know numbers and

53:39even as 76 years old, every day I'm

53:42still working with engineers,

53:44wetlands specialists,

53:46and I'm writing checks, okay?

53:50So, I just hate to see the town,

53:54you know,

53:55get missed a big uh

53:57design firm and just run up,

54:00you know, run up a bill, and then it's

54:03so expensive,

54:04the town at that point

54:06says they can't afford it. I want to see

54:08this thing happen.

54:12And you know, and and one other thing is

54:14is maybe before you do this,

54:17included in this, you should look at

54:18another site. I think a marvelous site

54:21for this, if you go down Masonic Hill

54:22Road, and you're coming up from Route

54:2420, there's a site where they have some

54:28parking on grass.

54:30I I can't see if you went to Masonic

54:33Home and said,

54:35"Can we buy that piece of land at a good

54:37price?" Okay.

54:39No, I I I know. I'm just I'm just

54:41telling you my reasoning.

54:43Because I'd like to see this go forward,

54:46but I don't want it to be too expensive.

54:48Thank you.

54:49>> Yeah, so that's your timer there. You're

54:50out of time, but I'm going to get Yeah.

54:56I'm going to get an I want to get

54:58finished the answer there if um our

54:59finance director would like to say a

55:01word.

55:02>> Uh so, Mr. Moderator, uh this is just an

55:04estimate based on uh what it cost us to

55:07design the fire station. Um like Andrew

55:10said, any unused monies can go towards

55:12the cost of the project, but it's to

55:14hire an OPM, an owner's project manager,

55:17which you probably wouldn't have to hire

55:18as a citizen, um but by law we have to,

55:21and also hire an architect to design the

55:23building. And the reason that this site

55:25was chosen is cuz we already own it, so

55:27we didn't have to buy land.

55:30>> Thank you.

55:32Go ahead, sir.

55:33>> Mr. Moderator, uh Shay Matthews, 26

55:35number 10 Schoolhouse Road here in

55:36Charlton on information or

55:38clarification. The motion as written

55:40carries no verbiage about allocating

55:42funds not allocated for estimate

55:46evaluation or contractual agreements to

55:48be directed towards construction. Is

55:50that in effect part of the bylaws or

55:52simply an assumption for the process for

55:54Charlton? I just don't understand how

55:56those funds would be automatically

55:58allocated in this process where the

55:59motion doesn't address that at all.

56:05>> Go ahead, ma'am.

56:05>> So through the moderator, uh Mass

56:07General Law will allow us based on what

56:10the title of the article is to spend

56:11money on. So when the auditor audits us,

56:14as long as we're spending towards the

56:15cost of that project, uh you're allowed

56:17to do So

56:19myself as the accountant would allow

56:21them to spend money on anything towards

56:22the senior center community or police

56:24department expansion design phase that

56:26first and then any unused money for that

56:28would go towards that project. Which so

56:30that would be if we needed more money

56:32towards construction costs or such for

56:35that land.

56:36Or I mean it we could come back to town

56:38meeting and close it and apply it to the

56:40article.

56:43And then if it doesn't if we don't spend

56:44it and the project doesn't move forward,

56:46I would have to come back and close it

56:48at town meeting.

56:49>> Okay. Hold on one just hold your

56:51thought. I know I'm not you're going to

56:52give you more time. You just to be

56:53clear, that's the police department

56:55parking expansion. Correct. I just want

56:57to make sure that was clear cuz I don't

56:58think the word parking was said. Go

57:00ahead.

57:04>> I don't want to belabor this point, but

57:05design phase being automatically

57:07allocated to construction phase seems a

57:09little hard to to reconcile and doesn't

57:11seem clear from the language of the

57:12motion. Thank you for clarifying.

57:14>> Yeah.

57:14Thank you for your time.

57:17And now I'm on this side here. Yep. No,

57:19no. Hold on. I'm on this side. Go ahead.

57:21>> Hi.

57:22Linda Bellows,

57:24Oxford Road.

57:26>> So it's out again.

57:27>> Linda Bellows, 154 Oxford Road. How many

57:31bids did you do receive for this quote

57:33of $500,000

57:35or is it just an estimate?

57:38It's an estimate.

57:40>> It's just an [snorts] estimate. We can't

57:42go out to bid without having physical

57:43money.

57:44No one we can't go out to bid on on

57:47people without money. So once we if the

57:49money is approved tonight then we can go

57:50out to bid and go get quotes following

57:51procurement.

57:52>> So then would it come back to a vote and

57:56we would know how much the bid was and

57:58what you approved and what's left over?

58:02>> Go ahead Ashley.

58:02>> So through the moderator, so

58:05you wouldn't get a say on the quotes cuz

58:08you're allowing the chief procurement

58:09officer to do that with the vote, but if

58:11there was leftover money in the project

58:12if I can we can leave it and close it

58:15instead of applying it to the

58:16construction costs.

58:17>> But would you let us know?

58:20Would you put it out some way and let us

58:22>> like the bid was only a $100,000

58:25and we have $400,000

58:28left over. In a selectman's meeting that

58:30the um

58:32quotes usually get acknowledged during a

58:33selectman's meeting of and then they

58:35they would assign

58:37uh who they're picking at a selectman's

58:38meeting.

58:39>> I'm I'm just a little bit confused. I

58:41was with the child term rec committee

58:43and we did put out bids for different

58:45things and we were able to get bids

58:49beforehand

58:50for sites that we were looking at. I

58:53don't understand why you

58:55or you're just a

58:56I don't know. I don't understand it.

58:58When you get an actual bid why you

59:00couldn't come before the town and say

59:03the actual bid for site prep or

59:06is $100,000 would you prove approve the

59:10$100,000?

59:15>> Do you want to clarify?

59:16>> Yeah, say we're I'm going to ask the

59:17town administrator to continue to

59:19clarify.

59:20>> Say

59:21Mr. Moderator at this point we're at the

59:22pre-design phase.

59:24Mr. Moderator at this point we're at the

59:26pre-design phase where we're still

59:27trying to establish those costs. This is

59:29just a

59:31get some bids out there.

59:37Go ahead.

59:38>> We can't I can't go out to bid without

59:40have an estimate of how much it would

59:41cost. So, I can't go out to bid. When

59:43you go out to bid for an architect or an

59:44owner's project manager, which is what

59:46you need to design a building, I have to

59:48have a cost when you go out to bid, so

59:49they know what they're bidding on.

59:52>> I thought this is just the land, not the

59:55building.

59:55>> We already own the land. So, the land

59:57was already purchased years ago, and

59:59that was the former site of the public

1:00:00safety building right across from

1:00:01Masonic Home Road. That was put out. We

1:00:04didn't build a public safety building on

1:00:06that land, so we're looking to build a

1:00:08senior center community and expand the

1:00:10parking lot for the police station on

1:00:12this land. So, we already own the land.

1:00:15The 500,000 would go towards an

1:00:17architect, hiring an architect to design

1:00:19the building, and an owner's project

1:00:21manager, which will help facilitate the

1:00:23entire project through construction.

1:00:25>> So, it's to decide the site plan and the

1:00:28building.

1:00:29>> Correct.

1:00:29>> The whole thing.

1:00:30>> Correct.

1:00:31>> Right.

1:00:31>> us to construction documents, so we know

1:00:33how much the project will cost. And then

1:00:35that the project cost would come back to

1:00:37town meeting to vote on, and it would

1:00:40probably also go to a ballot vote, cuz

1:00:41you would need a debt exclusion to pay

1:00:43for the total cost. So, that will come

1:00:44back to the public, yes.

1:00:46>> Thank you.

1:00:47>> And yeah, and your 3 minutes is up. So,

1:00:49thank you so much. Thank you.

1:00:52I'm I'm on this side now. Um go ahead.

1:00:54>> Again, Karen Spiwak, 187 Sunset Drive.

1:00:58Um again, I'm talking as a resident, but

1:00:59I did full disclosure, I did serve as

1:01:02the Select Board member who was

1:01:03appointed to serve on the Senior

1:01:04Community Center. Just a few things I

1:01:06wanted to point out. It was always

1:01:08called the Senior Community Center. Um

1:01:10that was always the intent even when the

1:01:12Feasibility Study Committee was formed.

1:01:14The other thing I wanted to point out is

1:01:17many sites were looked at. This

1:01:19committee really did do their due

1:01:20diligence, and this has been literally

1:01:23around since the 1990s. We've been

1:01:25trying to do this since the 1990s. So,

1:01:28if people kind of you hear sighs and

1:01:30stuff, it's because

1:01:31they've We've been trying to get this

1:01:33accomplished. It would this We've never

1:01:34had a separate senior center.

1:01:37Uh and the other thing I just not to

1:01:39overly simplify, but this is simply the

1:01:42transfer of funds so we can get to that

1:01:45next phase and bring it back to the

1:01:46voters and say, "All right, now we have

1:01:48those numbers. You know, what do you

1:01:50want to do?" And

1:01:51your committee will probably go out and

1:01:53look to see, you know, if if there's

1:01:54anything we need to do to bring numbers

1:01:55down. There's all kinds of fundraising

1:01:57that can get done, grants, all kinds of

1:01:59opportunities. But please, let us just

1:02:01let them let us as a town get to that

1:02:03next phase, bring it back, and then we

1:02:06can have more spirited debate as as they

1:02:09would say. Anyway, please again, um vote

1:02:12yes and get us to that next phase.

1:02:16>> Go ahead.

1:02:20>> Can you hear me?

1:02:22Annette Mitchell, three Pikes Pond

1:02:24Circle.

1:02:25Moderator, I'd like to recommend that we

1:02:27move to vote.

1:02:29>> Do we have Do we have a second?

1:02:35At this time, I'd like to just pause for

1:02:37a moment and I'm going to ask the to

1:02:39clerk to put that in here.

1:02:42Well, I'd rather just do that. Yeah.

1:02:47We just need a moment. Thank you for

1:02:48your patience.

1:02:50And the motion is to move the question.

1:02:53We're voting on that first.

1:03:08I'm sorry.

1:03:09>> It's not working.

1:03:10>> It's not Yeah, she hasn't done it yet.

1:03:12We haven't voted yet. Sorry. I'll

1:03:14announce the vote once she's ready.

1:03:15Sorry.

1:03:16Yeah.

1:03:17>> [laughter]

1:03:18>> Yeah, I'll let you know. Don't worry.

1:03:23Okay. Okay. So, at this time we're

1:03:26voting on the move the question.

1:03:28Um all those in favor, you'll signify on

1:03:31your device by voting yes. All those

1:03:32opposed signify by voting no.

1:03:36Please vote now.

1:03:5610 seconds remaining.

1:04:03Please stop voting.

1:04:05We have recorded 323 votes in the

1:04:07affirmative and 42 votes against. The

1:04:10motion is adopted. Now, we're going to

1:04:12go back to Article 5, the original

1:04:15motion, and we're going to be voting on

1:04:17that right now. So, at this time we're

1:04:20going to give the town clerk a minute.

1:04:21You read Yeah, okay. Um at this time we

1:04:24need a majority vote. All those in favor

1:04:27of Article 5, the motion for Article 5,

1:04:29please signify by voting yes. All those

1:04:32opposed, please signify by voting no.

1:04:35Please vote now.

1:04:40>> [snorts]

1:04:50>> 10 seconds remaining.

1:04:55>> [snorts]

1:04:59>> Please stop voting.

1:05:01227 votes in the affirmative and 144 in

1:05:05the against. The motion is adopted.

1:05:09Article six.

1:05:16ARTICLE SIX.

1:05:19TRANSFER to from stabilization funds to

1:05:23see if the town will vote

1:05:25Who am I missing from? Oh, sorry. Sorry.

1:05:27To see if the town will vote to transfer

1:05:29and appropriate a sum of a sum or sums

1:05:32to or from the stabilization funds to

1:05:35take or take any action relative there

1:05:37to thereon. Do I have a motion?

1:05:40>> Mr. Moderator,

1:05:41I move that the town vote to transfer

1:05:43and appropriate the following sums to

1:05:45and from the following accounts and

1:05:47funds. Each such transfer to be

1:05:49considered a separate appropriation.

1:05:52100,000 from free cash to general

1:05:55stabilization fund to fund the

1:05:57stabilization account in accordance with

1:05:59the reserve policy. 50,000 from free

1:06:02cash

1:06:03to the capital stabilization fund to

1:06:05fund the stabilization account in

1:06:06accordance with the reserve policy. 1

1:06:09million from sewer retained earnings to

1:06:11fund future capital projects and 400,000

1:06:15from water retained earnings to fund

1:06:17future capital projects.

1:06:19>> Do I have a second? I do have a second.

1:06:22>> Second.

1:06:23>> May I please have the recommendation of

1:06:25the finance committee?

1:06:26>> Finance committee supports this motion.

1:06:29>> May I have the recommendation of the

1:06:30select board?

1:06:31>> The select board supports this motion.

1:06:35>> Is there anything to be said on this

1:06:36matter?

1:06:42Hearing none, this will require a

1:06:44majority vote. All those in favor,

1:06:45please signify by voting yes. All those

1:06:48opposed, please signify by voting no.

1:06:52>> [snorts]

1:06:59[snorts]

1:07:05>> 10 seconds remaining.

1:07:12>> [snorts]

1:07:18>> Please stop voting.

1:07:20We have recorded 287 votes in the

1:07:22affirmative and 52 votes against. The

1:07:25motion is adopted.

1:07:29Moving along to Article 7,

1:07:32amend general bylaws chapter 110 animal

1:07:35control to see if the town will vote to

1:07:38amend the town of Charlton general

1:07:40bylaws chapter 110 animal control

1:07:44section 110-2

1:07:47the light licenses and tags fees penalty

1:07:51by striking the underlying struck

1:07:53language as shown below

1:07:55additions underlying deletions shown

1:07:58with strike through.

1:08:00And you can the chart is printed in your

1:08:02warrant and I'd ask you to refer to

1:08:04those changes that are listed there.

1:08:08Additionally, G any person 70 years of

1:08:12age or older upon proof of age shall be

1:08:15exempt from the animal fee

1:08:18and you can see the cross out there.

1:08:20The owner of a kennel license age 70

1:08:22years of age or older shall be excluded

1:08:25from this exemption. These exemptions

1:08:27shall take effect upon the town as

1:08:29acceptance of the provision of MGL

1:08:31chapter 140 section 139C reading as

1:08:35follows no fee shall be charged for a

1:08:37license for a dog owned by a person age

1:08:3970 years or over in a city or town that

1:08:42accepts this provision. All other fees

1:08:44and fines and as otherwise provided for

1:08:47for in the animal control bylaws or

1:08:49Massachusetts general laws will apply or

1:08:52take any action relative there to or

1:08:54there on. Do I have a motion?

1:08:56>> Mr. Moderator.

1:08:57>> Point of order.

1:08:58>> Oh.

1:08:58>> The booklet specifies

1:09:01>> Right Dave, just write on your mic

1:09:02there. Sorry.

1:09:03>> booklet specified the booklet specified

1:09:0660 and over. I just want to make sure

1:09:07we're clear

1:09:08>> [music]

1:09:08>> with the people who are here if it's 60

1:09:10or 70.

1:09:11>> Okay, my my What is the booklet? Mine

1:09:13says 70.

1:09:17>> Right, but the chart says 60.

1:09:19>> The chart says 60, yes. So, I'd like

1:09:21clarification from the town

1:09:22administrator.

1:09:25>> Thank you for your question, Joe. Just

1:09:26hold on 1 second. Mr. Singer will get

1:09:28that information.

1:09:29>> Mr. Moderator.

1:09:30>> Go ahead.

1:09:31>> Paragraph G reflects Mass. General Law

1:09:33Chapter 140, Section 139C.

1:09:37The changes reflected that that were

1:09:40pointed out by Mr. Singer are in one

1:09:42110-2E,

1:09:44which reflects a differential between

1:09:46senior center 60 and over,

1:09:49which would be $5 $5 for intact, $0 for

1:09:54Thank you.

1:09:54>> Yes.

1:09:55>> Yeah.

1:09:57Thank you, Mr. Singer. Any

1:10:00I have a I'm looking for a motion.

1:10:05>> Move the town take affirmative action on

1:10:07the motion.

1:10:08>> Do I have a second?

1:10:10>> Second.

1:10:10>> Motion's been made and seconded.

1:10:16Oh, I did did Where You asked after or

1:10:18before?

1:10:19Did I do the recommendations already?

1:10:21>> No.

1:10:21>> No.

1:10:22>> not do it.

1:10:22>> No, we did not. So, that Thank you. No

1:10:24problem.

1:10:25May I have a recommendation of the

1:10:27Finance Committee?

1:10:28>> Finance Committee supports this motion.

1:10:29>> Recommendation of the Select Board.

1:10:31>> The Select Board supports the motion.

1:10:33>> A majority vote is needed. Is there

1:10:35anything to be said on the matter?

1:10:42Seeing none,

1:10:45all those in favor, please signify by

1:10:46voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:10:48signify by voting no.

1:11:05>> [snorts]

1:11:08>> 10 seconds remaining.

1:11:11>> [snorts]

1:11:18>> Please stop voting.

1:11:20We have recorded 301 votes in the

1:11:22affirmative and 41 against. The motion

1:11:25is adopted.

1:11:27Article 8

1:11:29amend general bylaws chapter 155

1:11:32licenses and permits

1:11:34to see if the town will vote to amend

1:11:36the town of Charlton general bylaws

1:11:39chapter 155 licenses and permits

1:11:44section 155

1:11:46dash two, list of delinquent taxpayers,

1:11:50by striking the underlined struck

1:11:51language as shown below.

1:11:54And additions are underlined, deletions

1:11:56are shown with a strike through.

1:11:58List of delinquent taxpayers, the

1:12:00collector shall annually and may

1:12:02periodically, that's that new addition,

1:12:04furnish to each licensing authority a

1:12:07list to all persons who have neglected

1:12:10or refused to pay any local taxes, fees,

1:12:14assessments, betterments, or other

1:12:16municipal charges, removing as you can

1:12:19see the words stricken out.

1:12:22And not

1:12:24and who have not filed in good faith a

1:12:26pending application for an abatement of

1:12:29such tax or pending petition before the

1:12:32appellate tax board or take any action

1:12:35relative thereto or thereon.

1:12:38Do I have a motion?

1:12:41>> Mr. Moderator, I move that the town take

1:12:43affirmative action on Article 8 as

1:12:45printed in the warrant.

1:12:47>> Do I have a second?

1:12:48>> Second.

1:12:49>> I have a motion and a second. May I

1:12:50please have the recommendation of the

1:12:52Finance Committee?

1:12:53>> Mr. Moderator, the Finance Committee

1:12:55supports this motion.

1:12:57>> May I please have a recommendation of

1:12:58the Select Board?

1:12:59>> The Select Board supports this motion.

1:13:01>> Is there anything to be said on the

1:13:03matter?

1:13:07Hearing none, a majority vote will be

1:13:09required.

1:13:10All those in favor, please signify by

1:13:12voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:13:14signify by voting no. Please vote.

1:13:18>> [snorts]

1:13:31>> 10 seconds remaining.

1:13:34>> [snorts]

1:13:42>> Please stop voting.

1:13:43We have recorded 265 affirmative votes

1:13:46and 63 votes against. The motion is

1:13:49adopted.

1:13:53Let's see. Article six.

1:13:56My mistake. I'm in Article nine.

1:14:02>> [clears throat]

1:14:03>> I I you guys are really paying attention

1:14:05and I think that's fantastic. Fantastic.

1:14:09Article nine, accept MGL Chapter 138

1:14:12Section 33B, sales of alcoholic

1:14:15beverages by on-premise licenses on

1:14:18Sundays and certain legal holidays,

1:14:20sales between 10:00 a.m. and 12:00 noon.

1:14:24To see if the town will vote to accept

1:14:26the provisions of Massachusetts General

1:14:28Laws Chapter 138 Section 33B, thereby

1:14:32authorizing the sale of alcoholic

1:14:34beverages by on-premise licensees on

1:14:37Sundays and certain legal holidays

1:14:41between the hours of 10:00 a.m. and

1:14:4312:00 noon or take any action relative

1:14:46thereto or thereon.

1:14:48I need Do I have a motion?

1:14:50>> Mr. Moderator, I move that the town take

1:14:52affirmative action on Article 9 as

1:14:54printed in the warrant.

1:14:56>> I need a second. Motion made and

1:14:58seconded.

1:14:59May I please have the recommendation of

1:15:01the select board?

1:15:02>> The select board supports this motion.

1:15:05>> Is there anything to be said on the

1:15:07matter?

1:15:13We will need a majority vote.

1:15:16All those in favor, please signify by

1:15:17voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:15:19signify by voting no.

1:15:21Please vote now.

1:15:35>> [clears throat]

1:15:39>> Uh please stop voting.

1:15:44We have recorded 258 votes in the

1:15:47affirmative and 70 votes against.

1:15:50The motion is adopted.

1:15:56Article 10, acceptance of Ashley Road

1:15:59and Amber Road as public ways.

1:16:01To see if the town will vote to accept

1:16:03as public ways Ashley Road and Amber

1:16:05Road. Said such ways as shown on a plan

1:16:08entitled Road Acceptance Plan, Ashley

1:16:11Road and Amber Road, prepared for and

1:16:14owned by Kenneth Kozlowski by Alpha

1:16:16Omega Engineering Incorporated, civil

1:16:19engineers, land surveyors, environmental

1:16:21consultants, 25 Highland View Drive,

1:16:24Sutton, Massachusetts 01590,

1:16:28to be recorded in the Worcester Registry

1:16:29of Deeds of said plan being on file in

1:16:33the office of the town clerk and

1:16:35planning board together with with and

1:16:38subject to access easements, drainage

1:16:41ways, and other rights as shown on said

1:16:44plan and such easements to accept such

1:16:47deeds of easement or fee for public way

1:16:50purposes and other instruments as the

1:16:52select board shall deem advisable to

1:16:55accomplish such acceptance or take any

1:16:57action relative there to or there on.

1:17:01Do I have a motion?

1:17:02>> Mr. Moderator, I move that the town take

1:17:05affirmative action on Article 10 as

1:17:07printed in the warrant.

1:17:09>> Is there a second?

1:17:11Motion has been made and seconded.

1:17:16What is the recommendation of the select

1:17:17board?

1:17:18>> Mr. Moderator, the select board supports

1:17:20this motion.

1:17:22>> Thank you. Is um is there anything to be

1:17:24said on the matter?

1:17:31Seeing none, this requires a majority

1:17:33vote.

1:17:35All those in favor, please signify by

1:17:36voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:17:39signify by voting no.

1:17:5710 seconds remaining.

1:18:00>> [snorts]

1:18:07>> Please excuse Please stop voting.

1:18:10We have recorded 252 votes in the

1:18:13affirmative and 77 votes against. The

1:18:16motion is adopted.

1:18:22Article 11

1:18:31Amend zoning bylaws, Chapter 200,

1:18:34Section 2, Definitions.

1:18:37Chapter 200-2.1,

1:18:40uses and structures.

1:18:42To see if the town will vote to amend

1:18:44the zoning bylaw, chapter 200, section

1:18:472, definitions, uses and structures by

1:18:50adding the definitions set forth

1:18:52therein, the complete text of which is

1:18:54on file in the offices of the town clerk

1:18:56and the planning board, or take any

1:18:58action relative thereto thereon.

1:19:02I will ask I'm going to ask the chair of

1:19:05the planning board, Patsy, to come

1:19:06forward and just state the motion,

1:19:08please.

1:19:15>> [clears throat]

1:19:15>> I move that the

1:19:17>> Oh,

1:19:18right into it.

1:19:19>> I move that the town take affirmative

1:19:21action on Article 11 as printed in the

1:19:23warrant.

1:19:24>> Is there a second?

1:19:26Second. And Patsy, I'm going to ask I

1:19:28don't Is there anything to be said cuz I

1:19:30don't know Patsy could give a

1:19:31a little overview to cuz I'm not going

1:19:33to read all this. But

1:19:35>> So, we

1:19:36>> Right up to yeah.

1:19:37>> Uh the planning board, we don't have a

1:19:39definition for data center in our zoning

1:19:41bylaws and we added um

1:19:44a

1:19:45a generic um description um just so we

1:19:48could have it so we could have some

1:19:49control over the process.

1:19:51>> That's great. Thank you so much. Um

1:19:55At this point um if this Is there

1:19:56anything to be said in the matter?

1:19:58>> Is there a recommendation of the

1:20:00planning board?

1:20:00>> Yeah. Well, yes, thank you.

1:20:03>> Uh the planning board recommends this

1:20:04motion.

1:20:06>> And if there's nothing to be said, we'll

1:20:08move on

1:20:09to vote. All those in favor, please

1:20:11signify by voting yes. All those

1:20:13opposed, please signify by voting no.

1:20:17>> Point of order.

1:20:19>> Yes.

1:20:20>> 2/3.

1:20:20>> Yeah, it does need a 2/3 majority. I

1:20:22apologize. Yes, it's as printed in your

1:20:24warrant. Yep, it does need a 2/3

1:20:26majority to pass.

1:20:29And that's per Massachusetts General

1:20:31Law.

1:20:4510 seconds remaining.

1:20:54Please stop voting.

1:20:58We have recorded 256 votes in the

1:21:00affirmative and 63 votes against. It

1:21:03does reach 2/3 majority. The motion is

1:21:05adopted.

1:21:10Article 12, and again I'll ask our chair

1:21:12of the Planning Board to step forward

1:21:14once I read in a when at your

1:21:15convenience.

1:21:18Article 12 amend zoning bylaws chapter

1:21:20200 section 3 use and intensity

1:21:22regulations section 200-3.2

1:21:26these use regulations schedule to see if

1:21:29the town will vote to amend the zoning

1:21:31bylaw chapter 200 section 3 use and

1:21:34intensity regulations use regulations

1:21:36chapter paragraph B

1:21:39use regulations schedule the complete

1:21:41text of each of which is on file in the

1:21:43offices of the town clerk and the

1:21:45planning board order to take any action

1:21:47relative there to there on and I would

1:21:50ask um

1:21:51Patty to make the motion.

1:21:54>> I move that the town take affirmative

1:21:56action on article 12 as printed in the

1:21:58warrant.

1:21:59>> Second.

1:22:00>> Motion's been made and seconded. What is

1:22:02the recommendation of the Planning

1:22:03Board?

1:22:04>> The plan The Planning Board recommends

1:22:05this motion.

1:22:07>> One great and I don't know if you wanted

1:22:09to say a few words um

1:22:11>> So, this is pretty simple. We're

1:22:13temporarily making um all data centers

1:22:16not allowed in any zoning district in

1:22:18the whole town.

1:22:28>> Thank you for the your help, Patsy, on

1:22:30that.

1:22:31Is there anything to be said on the

1:22:32matter?

1:22:37>> Mr. Moderator, Joe Spiwak, 187 Sunset

1:22:39Drive. What we've just done, if we pass

1:22:42this, is we've told any business that

1:22:43wants to come here and has a data center

1:22:45greater than 2,500 square feet in their

1:22:47home building, they can't come.

1:22:51Be very cautious.

1:22:53There's several banks in Southbridge

1:22:55whose data centers exceed the 2,500

1:22:58square feet. And wouldn't it be nice to

1:22:59be able to woo some of them here? But

1:23:01right now, we're saying, "Sorry,

1:23:04you can't come."

1:23:07Very concerned about that kind of

1:23:09support. And we say it's temporary, but

1:23:12temporary can be a long time.

1:23:14So, I would ask, through you, Mr.

1:23:16Moderator, to the Planning Board,

1:23:18what do we think temporary means?

1:23:19>> Yep, so I could ask the Planning Board

1:23:21to step forward and answer your

1:23:22question.

1:23:24>> [snorts]

1:23:25>> Uh who Yeah, who Thank you. I didn't

1:23:27mean you, Patsy. Anybody. Yeah.

1:23:31>> Can you hear me okay?

1:23:32>> Yep, and if you could identify yourself.

1:23:34>> Fantastic. Dylan Maxfield, uh 8 North

1:23:36Main Street, and I'm the Planning

1:23:38Director here in

1:23:39Uh the idea of this is it's not to be a

1:23:42permanent ban. It is supposed to be a

1:23:45moratorium, and during the moratorium,

1:23:47it prohibits data centers in all zoning

1:23:50districts until the town is actually

1:23:52able to develop a permanent process,

1:23:55which the town could decide at a later

1:23:57date. It may want to ban it, but that's

1:23:58not the intention of this um

1:24:01article before you.

1:24:03And moreover, in this article as well,

1:24:06it still allows for data centers as a

1:24:08subsidiary use. Uh for example, in Town

1:24:10Hall, we have a data center for some of

1:24:13our own um

1:24:15uh internal town processes. It's very

1:24:17common among businesses. It does does

1:24:20ban that use. It simply bans a data

1:24:22center as a primary use temporarily

1:24:25while the time town has time to review

1:24:28its process for permitting.

1:24:31>> All right. Does that answer the

1:24:32question?

1:24:34Now, I'm I'm going to have the gentleman

1:24:35come back if he

1:24:37Go ahead.

1:24:38>> Through you, Mr. Moderator.

1:24:39What happened in the last article is

1:24:41that you allow an ancillary use only

1:24:45only if it's less than 2,500 sq ft.

1:24:51>> And would you like to

1:24:52>> And I'm just telling you right now,

1:24:54having been in this business for 50

1:24:55years,

1:24:56all right, less than 50.

1:24:59Um

1:25:00there's many data centers around right

1:25:01now and and Southbridge is one of them

1:25:04with its 2,500 sq ft is nothing.

1:25:06For a data center, it's a joke. So, if a

1:25:08if a company wants to move in during

1:25:10this moratorium and say, "Hey, I would

1:25:12love to put my place on Route 20. I

1:25:15would love to come to Charlton." You

1:25:17can't permit it and there's no there's

1:25:19no appeal to this.

1:25:21>> Even by the special

1:25:22>> You're blocking You're blocking any

1:25:23development which includes a data

1:25:25center. Just be careful.

1:25:28Now, if you want to go back and look at

1:25:3011 and say, "Maybe we make 2,500 sq

1:25:33I'm I'm sorry, 2,500 sq ft a little bit

1:25:35bigger. Maybe we think about that." But,

1:25:37if you're going to block anything over

1:25:392,500 sq ft,

1:25:41that's a bad idea. I wouldn't support

1:25:42it.

1:25:44>> We had this question for the same voter.

1:25:46>> Is there anything else to be said on the

1:25:48matter?

1:25:49>> Just a point of order.

1:25:51>> If you could identify

1:25:52>> And I'm not sure if this

1:25:53>> If you could identify yourself, please.

1:25:54>> Okay. Dan Prouty, 134 Partridge Hill

1:25:57Road.

1:25:58Um

1:25:59just a question.

1:26:01Uh years ago we had a company come to

1:26:03the town, MCI. When they went broke,

1:26:05Verizon took it over.

1:26:07And that's a that was on my property and

1:26:10I sold them the property

1:26:12behind the industrial park. That's about

1:26:1440,000 sq ft now. Is that considered a

1:26:17data center?

1:26:19>> I would I would need the planning board

1:26:20to answer your question.

1:26:21>> That's what I'm wondering about and and

1:26:23that's the main switch center

1:26:25for air traffic control. They've got a

1:26:28line that comes up the turnpike, a line

1:26:30that up comes and Conrail, then a line

1:26:33that goes down on Northside Road.

1:26:35And um

1:26:37uh

1:26:38I mean, maybe we should take a

1:26:42a little breath back or

1:26:45step back

1:26:46and see if um

1:26:48uh this is even legal to infringe

1:26:53infringe upon a utility company.

1:26:58>> Yep, I'm going to have the planning

1:26:59board chair, Ms. Ridlack, answer.

1:27:02>> Um so, I can answer. Um so, this only

1:27:05gives us until the annual town meeting

1:27:08in the next the next article

1:27:11um if you read the long one, um

1:27:14only gives us till the annual town

1:27:15meeting in 2028 to come up with a better

1:27:18solution, to do the research, to bring

1:27:20in um consultants, lawyers, whatever

1:27:23else we need to make sure that we make

1:27:25the right decision for Chelmsford. We

1:27:26just didn't want something um brought in

1:27:29um that we had no control of. So, this

1:27:31sort of does the same thing sort of like

1:27:33when we do the we did the solar

1:27:34moratorium to um just put on the brakes

1:27:37a little bit so that we we don't rush

1:27:39into this. So, we you know, it very well

1:27:42could

1:27:43fit well in industrial zones. I'm truly

1:27:46not against data centers. Just just said

1:27:49put the brakes on to let us think this

1:27:51through. And again, the next article

1:27:53says that we only have until the annual

1:27:56town meeting 2028 to um come up with uh

1:28:00the

1:28:01what we really want to have permanently

1:28:03in the zoning bylaws.

1:28:06>> Thank you for Thank you for your

1:28:07explanation. Um I I see you. Just give

1:28:10me 1 second.

1:28:22I was just clarifying something for my

1:28:23own knowledge to make sure I had it

1:28:25right. Thank you for your time. Um go

1:28:27ahead and identify yourself.

1:28:28>> Cathy Stanley, 2 Potash Village Road,

1:28:30also town assessor. Want to answer

1:28:32question from Dan regarding

1:28:35um it's actually owned by MCI now. Uh it

1:28:38is

1:28:40we're going to be making some Dylan

1:28:42Planning Board's going to be making some

1:28:43amendments to the next article because I

1:28:45raised this question this morning. It

1:28:47was originally built in 1987. Few people

1:28:50know it's there because you can't see

1:28:51it. It's on Northside Road. It was a

1:28:54fiber optic switching facility.

1:28:56It may be a little bit hybrid now, so we

1:28:59may have you know it's a little bit more

1:29:01probably towards just because technology

1:29:03has advanced.

1:29:05Um and so we want to make sure since MCI

1:29:08is uh one of our top taxpayers in town,

1:29:11that I didn't want anything that we do

1:29:13here tonight to hurt that facility. They

1:29:16did take out a permit a few years ago.

1:29:18We're going to be making some

1:29:19adjustments to the next article to make

1:29:21sure that this preexisting use isn't

1:29:24going to be hurt in the process that

1:29:26we're doing tonight.

1:29:28I hope that answers the question, Dan,

1:29:30that you had.

1:29:31>> Yeah, I I

1:29:32hold on 1 second. Sir sir

1:29:35Mr. Prouty, we can't hear you.

1:29:37>> and building right now. MCI owns

1:29:40>> So

1:29:41yeah, so you've made your comment. Do

1:29:42you have anything further?

1:29:44No, okay. Thank you so much. This Okay.

1:29:48Go ahead.

1:29:51>> 47 James Road

1:29:52>> I'll pick the mic up. Yep.

1:29:55>> 47 James Road, Christopher Merlo. Um if

1:29:59you would like to clarify data centers

1:30:00more besides the given definition you

1:30:03have currently, um

1:30:05could you also specify the current

1:30:07things that are also making up the other

1:30:10things that are making data centers

1:30:12their known given definition that are

1:30:14making the aftermath of what's truly

1:30:18giving their name. Um,

1:30:20the current things like the noise

1:30:23they're emitting, um, just generally

1:30:25anything else besides the current given

1:30:26definition. And also,

1:30:29um, generally in my thought, I think

1:30:312028 is too soon for giving a final

1:30:34credit definition for the goal of this.

1:30:37Um, a lot of this is going too fast, so

1:30:40that is just my suggestion. Um, so if

1:30:42you can come up with a new definition

1:30:44that's more strict and more definitive

1:30:46for what is going on currently, that'd

1:30:47be great. Thank you.

1:30:49>> Okay, so you need a question question

1:30:50answered?

1:30:53Did you have a You wanted the question

1:30:54answered though.

1:30:56Okay.

1:30:59So, go ahead and if you want to answer

1:31:01the first part of his discussion.

1:31:06>> Yeah, the um

1:31:07>> If you could identify yourself again.

1:31:08>> Again, uh, Dylan Maxfield, planning

1:31:10director.

1:31:11Um,

1:31:12again, the the

1:31:14definition for data center was just

1:31:16trying to encap- encapsulate generally

1:31:18what we would consider a data center

1:31:20being,

1:31:21you know, racks of servers, um telecom

1:31:25equipment, that type of use for

1:31:28something like, you know, AI or

1:31:30cryptocurrency, that type of primary use

1:31:32is how we came to the definition of data

1:31:36center. Um My understanding now at this

1:31:40point though, we've already accepted

1:31:41that definition of a data center, so

1:31:43we're just on to the uh

1:31:45>> Yeah, no.

1:31:46>> where it's allowed.

1:31:47>> wanted the clarification, that's all.

1:31:48Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, go

1:31:51ahead, sir. Your turn.

1:31:57>> Do we still have sir? One Applewood

1:31:58Lane. Um I am a cloud engineer

1:32:02and I have worked in co-location

1:32:04facilities. And right now, the issue

1:32:07with data centers is basically hyper

1:32:09scalar scalars who are seeking places to

1:32:12put uh

1:32:14buildings that are going to going to

1:32:15consume massive amounts of resources,

1:32:17more than they have before. Uh so, I

1:32:20think that a temporary pause while we

1:32:24give space to consider how we are going

1:32:26to regulate the

1:32:28resource consumption in our town makes a

1:32:31great deal of sense. I don't think we

1:32:33can fight against it permanently. I

1:32:35don't think we should fight against it

1:32:36permanently, but being able to manage it

1:32:39and decide how we want to deal with it

1:32:40makes a great deal of sense to me uh

1:32:43from the perspective of uh

1:32:45somebody who deals with this every day.

1:32:47>> Thank you. Thank you.

1:32:49Thank you very much, and we'll go on to

1:32:51the next person.

1:32:53Go ahead.

1:32:54>> Scott uh Scott Neary, 12 Yowyn Road. The

1:32:57I like to echo what Mr. Spiwak said. Um

1:33:00I don't think we're worried about

1:33:02stopping the big data centers coming. I

1:33:03think everybody's in this room is

1:33:05probably a majority's for that. The

1:33:07problem is

1:33:08limiting it to scope of 2,500 square

1:33:10feet is going to stop legitimate

1:33:13businesses from coming in here. If that

1:33:14happens,

1:33:16next time this comes to vote for us to

1:33:18fund a school, fund a senior center,

1:33:20something like that, think about the tax

1:33:22money that's not coming in because we

1:33:23did this.

1:33:24>> Yeah, but I understood that was

1:33:25>> said no.

1:33:26>> Thank you. Thank you. And I understood

1:33:27that was the previous article, the

1:33:292,500.

1:33:31Um go ahead.

1:33:32>> Hi, Noreen Smith. I'm at 136 Dresser

1:33:34Hill Road. And I just wanted to clarify

1:33:36we're talking about Article 12, not

1:33:38Article 13 right now.

1:33:40>> Correct.

1:33:40>> Article 13 references an interim

1:33:43prohibition, but Article 12 makes no

1:33:45reference to that. My question is is

1:33:48Article 13 somehow contingent upon the

1:33:50vote on Article 12? Or are they being

1:33:53considered as entirely separate matters

1:33:56where we could vote yes or no, you know,

1:33:59for or against Article 12 and then still

1:34:01have the vote

1:34:03for Article 13?

1:34:04>> That's a great Yeah, go ahead if you

1:34:05want to answer that. Um Patsy or Dylan,

1:34:07whoever.

1:34:14>> I'll do my best to to answer this one

1:34:16because Article 12 does reference what

1:34:19would be Article 13 as section 200-5.23.

1:34:25So, if we were to vote for this section

1:34:27and then vote down Article 13,

1:34:30it would be pointing to a section of the

1:34:32bylaw that wouldn't exist.

1:34:34How that would go over legally, that

1:34:37might be a question for counsel on that

1:34:38one. But, they are separate articles,

1:34:41but they do reference each other. Yes.

1:34:44>> Thank you, and you still have your time.

1:34:46>> And just my final comment then, if we

1:34:49voted down Article 12, we would have the

1:34:51option still to vote for Article 13,

1:34:53allow for an end to a prohibition and

1:34:56give time for the town to consider this

1:34:59further. Is that correct?

1:35:03Do you want legal counsel? Do you want

1:35:05counsel?

1:35:08I'm going to have our town counsel.

1:35:11>> Mr. Moderator,

1:35:12Mr. Moderator, through you, I would

1:35:14agree that if you vote down

1:35:19If you vote down Article 12 and you pass

1:35:23Article 13,

1:35:25there is still a moratorium in

1:35:26existence, and so therefore, the fact

1:35:29that there's a specific provision in 7K

1:35:32that would say

1:35:35a data center is not allowed in any

1:35:37zone, would really not be relevant

1:35:39because there would be a moratorium for

1:35:41all zones.

1:35:45>> Okay.

1:35:46>> Thank you.

1:35:48And that answered your question. Yeah.

1:35:50Very good. Yeah, thank you. And go

1:35:52ahead.

1:35:53>> Good afternoon. Barbara Zaraski, 96 B

1:35:56Baker Pond Road. For the qualification

1:35:58to the planning board, so all the

1:36:00existing businesses

1:36:032,500 square feet and and above, we're

1:36:06going to leave them alone.

1:36:07>> Yeah, so that's the previous article.

1:36:09We're just talking about 12.

1:36:10>> And the part two question is

1:36:13if there is a business coming in say

1:36:15that passes, would you consider the

1:36:18special permitting at all or not?

1:36:22>> Hold on. Yeah, hold on. Yeah, you're

1:36:24welcome. Thank you for the question and

1:36:26planning board or did the planning the

1:36:28town planner want to answer this?

1:36:31Okay, our town planner will answer. Go

1:36:33ahead.

1:36:36>> Yes, correct. If we adopt these articles

1:36:40as they're written, then

1:36:42we would not there would be no special

1:36:44permitting process, no site plan

1:36:46approval process in place to hear a data

1:36:49center

1:36:50while these are all still on the books.

1:36:52So while the moratorium is in effect,

1:36:54just wouldn't be able to accept any

1:36:56application.

1:36:57>> Thank you.

1:36:59>> Thank you for your time. Yes, sir.

1:37:03Hold on.

1:37:04Go No, no, go ahead.

1:37:06>> Bill Borowski, 69 Hackety Road. I'd like

1:37:08to make a motion that we move the

1:37:09question and if you would consider be a

1:37:12voice vote instead.

1:37:16>> Motion's been made and seconded.

1:37:19And I will do a voice vote.

1:37:21All those in favor of moving the

1:37:23question, so again to be clear, we're

1:37:25not voting on Article 12, we're voting

1:37:27to to stop debate and go to 12. So right

1:37:31now the motion is to move the question

1:37:33and it's been seconded. All those in

1:37:34favor signify by saying I.

1:37:39All those opposed signify by saying no.

1:37:43Unanimous.

1:37:46The motion is unanimous.

1:37:49And now we will go back to Article 12,

1:37:52the original motion. Now that's on the

1:37:54table.

1:37:55This will For this to pass, it will

1:37:57require a 2/3 vote needed per Mass.

1:38:01General Law.

1:38:03At this time, you may begin voting. All

1:38:05those in favor, please signify by voting

1:38:07yes. All those opposed, please signify

1:38:10by voting no.

1:38:2310 seconds remaining.

1:38:34Please stop voting.

1:38:36228 in the affirmative and 93 votes

1:38:40against. It does reach 2/3 majority. The

1:38:42motion is adopted.

1:38:46We're moving on to Article 13.

1:38:51And right I'm going to read the article.

1:38:53I know that there's

1:38:55discussion about some amendment, but I

1:38:57want to put this on the floor first.

1:38:59Pardon me.

1:39:02Article 13 amend zoning bylaws chapter

1:39:05200 section 5 special regulations

1:39:10200-5.23

1:39:12data centers to see if the town will

1:39:14vote to amend the zoning bylaw chapter

1:39:17200 section 5 special regulations by

1:39:20adding a new

1:39:23chapter 200 5.23 data centers. The

1:39:26complete text of which is on file in the

1:39:29offices of the town clerk and the

1:39:30planning board or take any action

1:39:33relative thereto or thereon. I'm not

1:39:36going to read everything here. It is

1:39:37printed in your warrant and I'm going to

1:39:40I'll the chair of the planning board to

1:39:41make the motion.

1:39:43>> I move that the town

1:39:45>> Right, right, just a little bit more,

1:39:46Patsy.

1:39:47>> I move that the town takes affirmative

1:39:49action on Article 13

1:39:52as printed in the warrant.

1:39:54>> Second.

1:39:54>> Motion's been made and seconded. What is

1:39:56the recommendation of the planning

1:39:58board?

1:39:59>> The planning board supports this motion.

1:40:01>> Thank you. Is there anything to be said

1:40:03on this matter? Or

1:40:05and right now you're going to start your

1:40:06amendment. Go ahead.

1:40:07>> So,

1:40:08in reviewing the proposed definition of

1:40:10data center, we realize that it may we

1:40:13may have unintentionally captured an

1:40:15existing facility in Charlton, MCI

1:40:18Communications,

1:40:19now associated with Verizon, simply

1:40:22because it it existing operations appear

1:40:25to fall within the broad definitions of

1:40:29a data center.

1:40:30Um this is significant because MCI has

1:40:33historically been one of Charlton's

1:40:35largest taxpayers. The intent of this

1:40:37article is to give the town time to

1:40:40determine how we want to regulate new

1:40:43data centers going forward. I do not

1:40:44believe the intent was to inadvertently

1:40:48um restrict an existing lawful business

1:40:50that has operated in Charlton for many

1:40:52years. Um I want to make an amendment to

1:40:54simply clarify that the temporary

1:40:56prohibition applies to new data centers

1:41:00while any existing facility remains

1:41:02subject to the protections and

1:41:04requirements already provided under

1:41:06Massachusetts zoning law in our existing

1:41:09zoning bylaw.

1:41:12>> Thank you. And to clarify, that's that

1:41:14cross out cuz they don't have this in

1:41:16front of us. Yep, so the under

1:41:19Yeah, you want I have it, but if you

1:41:21want to review the specific area just so

1:41:23we're clear.

1:41:25>> So, under the interim prohibition, we

1:41:28are adding

1:41:29um

1:41:32uh site plan approval or special permit

1:41:35shall be issued for

1:41:37new data center in in um for a new data

1:41:41center in new new data center shall be

1:41:43established. Um we're just taking out um

1:41:47we're just adding the word in new.

1:41:49Um

1:41:50and we're adding at the end of the

1:41:53motion as used in the subsection, a

1:41:55pre-existing data center is one that has

1:41:58lawfully

1:41:59that was lawfully in existence or

1:42:01lawfully begun or for which a building

1:42:04permit or special permit was issued

1:42:07before the first publication of notice

1:42:09of the public hearing on the section.

1:42:12Any other data center is considered a

1:42:14new data is a new data center. Um

1:42:17pre-existing data centers shall be

1:42:19governed by MGL 40A

1:42:21um chapter 6 and 203.4

1:42:25of the zoning bylaw.

1:42:27So, what this does is it just um it

1:42:30excludes um MCI from um

1:42:33be being uh

1:42:35you know,

1:42:37non-conforming.

1:42:39>> Okay. And one one thing, Patsy, just to

1:42:41be clear, you talked about the no new

1:42:43data center shall be established. The

1:42:45words operated or expanded are being

1:42:48removed. Just Correct. Very Okay, just

1:42:51being clear.

1:42:52Um that's the amendment. So, I need a

1:42:54motion to approve the amendment to

1:42:57article 13.

1:42:59>> Make a motion to approve the amendment

1:43:00to article 13.

1:43:02>> Is there a second?

1:43:03>> Second.

1:43:04>> Motion's been made and seconded to

1:43:06approve the amendment. So, we're we're

1:43:08on the amendment right now. Is there

1:43:10anything to be said upon the matter?

1:43:13Yes, go ahead.

1:43:14>> Hi, Keith Albright, 55 Bond Road.

1:43:16Uh question about um so, you're talking

1:43:18about pre-existing versus new

1:43:19construction. Um so, what stops someone

1:43:23from taking a building as large as MCI

1:43:25and retrofitting it to turn it into a

1:43:27data center with all the noise and every

1:43:29all the other issues that can happen?

1:43:31>> I'll get any answer for your question.

1:43:32So, I don't know if town planner or uh

1:43:35town planner will help us assist with

1:43:37that.

1:43:40>> Yes, so that would be Dylan Maxwell,

1:43:42town planner. That would be considered

1:43:44change in use. So, when they would go to

1:43:46apply for any type of building permits,

1:43:48that would be reviewed by the building

1:43:49department that would see it is a change

1:43:51of use, look at the use table, would see

1:43:53that it's in fact a data center, and

1:43:55that is prohibited. So, they wouldn't be

1:43:57able to retrofit that facility. They'd

1:43:59have to be an existing data center, and

1:44:02then they'd be governed by the rules of

1:44:03pre-existing non-conformity.

1:44:05>> Thank you.

1:44:06>> Thank you very much. Thank you, Dylan.

1:44:08Any other Go ahead. Yep. Your Your turn

1:44:10on the right here.

1:44:12>> Dewey Sasser, 1 Applewood Lane, would

1:44:13like to ask the planning

1:44:15board if you had considered a power

1:44:17limitation.

1:44:19Typically

1:44:20>> to go through me.

1:44:21>> Uh sorry. Um

1:44:22typically uh

1:44:25when a new data center is put in that is

1:44:28more than about 5 MW, that can impact

1:44:31local residential power costs.

1:44:34So, I'd like to ask if they had

1:44:35considered that in

1:44:38when they were formulating this article.

1:44:40>> Thank you for the question. I'll ask

1:44:42someone a planning board member.

1:44:46Planning board member, if if you'll just

1:44:47identify yourself.

1:44:48>> Bill Fontaine,

1:44:4919 Pineland Drive, on the planning

1:44:52board.

1:44:53So, these articles in front of town

1:44:56meeting are just to make temporary

1:44:58changes to the bylaws. Uh we will be

1:45:01having extensive meetings,

1:45:03very late meetings to discuss exactly

1:45:06the definitions,

1:45:08power capacity limitations, size

1:45:11limitations, noise limitations, and you

1:45:14are all invited to these meetings when

1:45:16we have them to help us clarify the

1:45:19bylaws that we will rewrite all of

1:45:22these. So, I'm just kind of preempting

1:45:24any of this.

1:45:25We will be rewriting all of these bylaws

1:45:28in the future by the 2028 date.

1:45:32So, before there's a ton of questions

1:45:34about what we will and will not allow

1:45:37for data centers, we understand the

1:45:40concerns. We'd like to hear your

1:45:41concerns also at our planning board

1:45:44meeting. But first, let's just consider

1:45:47the quick amendments to our existing

1:45:50bylaws so that we can get data centers

1:45:53into the record and our bylaws to

1:45:55consider them in a more thoughtful way.

1:45:58Thank Thank you for for all your

1:46:00opinions.

1:46:02>> Thank you. Did Did you Did that answer

1:46:03your question, sir?

1:46:05Cuz you still have time as part of your

1:46:073 minutes.

1:46:08>> Thank you.

1:46:10I was actually thinking more on on

1:46:13the MCI facility that if they chose to

1:46:17increase their facility by say 10 MW,

1:46:20that could impact us and the amendment

1:46:22just passed to this

1:46:25article would allow that. Whereas if

1:46:28they were just doing ordinary

1:46:29improvement of the 1 or 2 MW level, it

1:46:32would not affect us.

1:46:34>> Yeah, and to be clear, where where where

1:46:36the amendment hasn't passed. We're

1:46:37discussing the amendment right now.

1:46:39Yeah, okay. Just to be clear. So, town

1:46:41planner does want wants to say a word.

1:46:43Go ahead.

1:46:48>> So, let me town council correct me on

1:46:50this way I misunderstand pre-existing

1:46:52non-conforming, but um

1:46:55they would be able to make modifications

1:46:56to their facility, but if they were to

1:46:58make you know, very substantial changes,

1:47:01then that would be considered outside of

1:47:03the scope of what pre-existing

1:47:05non-conforming allows, which generally

1:47:07it can't be substantially more

1:47:09detrimental than what the current use

1:47:11allows for. So, if they were say at I

1:47:13don't know, 1 MW or something like that,

1:47:15now they want to go to 10, that would

1:47:17generally be considered substantially

1:47:19more detrimental and wouldn't get that

1:47:21same protection from pre-existing

1:47:23non-conforming use.

1:47:25Uh if that answers the question.

1:47:28>> Yeah, okay. Very good. Thank you. And

1:47:31we're going to go over here. Go ahead,

1:47:32sir.

1:47:32>> Scott Scott Neary again, Yoman Road. I

1:47:34just uh Mr. Moderator, I'd like a

1:47:36clarification. The by all accounts MCI

1:47:38is a great partner of Charlton and what

1:47:41has been mentioned a couple times as one

1:47:43of the biggest taxpayers and we're doing

1:47:44something here to protect them, which I

1:47:46am for. However, I just want to make

1:47:48sure we're I'm clarifying this

1:47:50we're protecting them while saying no to

1:47:53everybody else for 2 years

1:47:56in business. Is that Can you please get

1:47:57that answer? That makes no

1:47:59sense.

1:47:59>> Understand. Yeah, well, get the answer

1:48:00and um town planner or chair of the

1:48:03planning board wants to answer that

1:48:04question, whoever.

1:48:05Go ahead and identify yourself again,

1:48:07please.

1:48:08>> Um Patricia Vidlak, chair of the

1:48:10Charlton Planning Board. Um so, not

1:48:12necessarily 2 years. Um we could go back

1:48:15and work on this for the next 2 months

1:48:16and and be ready for the next town

1:48:18meeting to present our changes. Um most

1:48:21likely we'll form a small um

1:48:24group committee

1:48:25and anybody interested is welcome to

1:48:27apply. So, especially people who have um

1:48:31knowledge and well, we could definitely

1:48:34do it sooner, but um

1:48:36we gave us ourselves enough time to make

1:48:38sure that we made the the right decision

1:48:41for the town.

1:48:43>> Thank you for answering that. Does that

1:48:44answer your question? Yes.

1:48:46Okay, great. Thank you.

1:48:48Go ahead and identify yourself, please.

1:48:50>> Hi, Jessica Wilson, 3610 Schoolhouse

1:48:52Road. Um I just wanted to first say

1:48:54thank you to the Planning Board for

1:48:55taking the time to research this as

1:48:57thoroughly as you're planning to. Um I

1:48:59was wondering two questions if um it

1:49:02would also be um studied about how it

1:49:05could the data centers can impact

1:49:06wildlands and farmland in our town. And

1:49:08then also once the study is completed,

1:49:10if it would be published for the town to

1:49:12also read.

1:49:14Thank you.

1:49:14>> Yeah.

1:49:18See, it's easy when you answer yes. All

1:49:19of

1:49:19>> is considered when we um

1:49:22change any zoning.

1:49:24>> Great. Thank you very much. Is there

1:49:26anything else to be said on the matter?

1:49:28Again, on the amendment.

1:49:31All right, hearing none, we are going to

1:49:33move forward on a vote on the amendment

1:49:35as discussed.

1:49:37We do require a majority vote for the

1:49:40amendment.

1:49:42All those in favor, please signify by

1:49:44voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:49:46signify by voting no.

1:50:0610 seconds remaining.

1:50:15Please stop voting.

1:50:18We have recorded 294

1:50:20votes in the affirmative, 29 in against.

1:50:23The motion is adopted. Now, we're going

1:50:26to return back to um Oh, we have a

1:50:29second amendment. We have a Yes, yes,

1:50:31thank you. So, we have a second

1:50:33amendment before we vote on Article 13.

1:50:37But, it's been amended already from the

1:50:39first motion. So, we're going to go to

1:50:41the second, and I turn to the town

1:50:42planner, Dylan.

1:50:45>> Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Um

1:50:47so, when putting this together,

1:50:49um

1:50:50the idea was to have this expire at 2028

1:50:55annual town meeting. If no action was

1:50:57taken, it's

1:50:58the moratorium. We specify when the

1:51:00planning board needs to have its results

1:51:02by, but one mistake on my part is I

1:51:05didn't make it,

1:51:07you know, crystal clear what happens at

1:51:10that point if no action is taken. So, I

1:51:12wanted to have an amendment here that

1:51:14reflects the point of this moratorium,

1:51:18which would be in section E, um duration

1:51:22and supersession. That would all stay

1:51:25exactly the same. There would just be a

1:51:27line added to the end of that that would

1:51:29read, "If at or before the 2028 annual

1:51:32town meeting, town meeting has not

1:51:33adopted an amendment to the zoning bylaw

1:51:36that regulates data centers or extends

1:51:38the duration of this section, then upon

1:51:40dissolution of the 2028 town annual town

1:51:43meeting, this section 200-5.23,

1:51:47the definition of data center in section

1:51:50200-2.1,

1:51:52and section 200-3.2b,

1:51:56uh 7k shall be repealed and no further

1:51:59forth of of effect without further

1:52:02action of the town meeting." Uh so

1:52:04again, just to kind of summarize that.

1:52:08My understanding is that

1:52:10this is what happens if we don't act,

1:52:13but this really clarifies that, so that

1:52:15way if we come to that town meeting, no

1:52:18action is taken, that there aren't any

1:52:20kind of hanging legal questions. It's

1:52:22very specific what happens, and then it

1:52:24gives us the town, you know, the real

1:52:26incentive to actually uh address these

1:52:29issues in a timely manner.

1:52:32>> Thank you. And I'd ask um um the chair,

1:52:36someone at the planning board to make

1:52:37the

1:52:37>> Motion to accept the amendment as uh

1:52:40stated by our planner.

1:52:41>> Is there a second?

1:52:42>> Second.

1:52:43>> Motion been made and seconded to accept

1:52:45uh to to amend the uh article 13 with

1:52:48the statements that were read. Is there

1:52:51um any um

1:52:54if anything to be said on that, the

1:52:56amendment?

1:53:03Okay. Hearing none,

1:53:05we will move to a vote. Again, we're on

1:53:07an amendment. It's the second amendment

1:53:09to Article 13. This requires a majority

1:53:12vote.

1:53:14All those in favor, please signify by

1:53:16voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:53:18signify by voting no.

1:53:3010 seconds remaining.

1:53:42Please stop voting.

1:53:45We have recorded 286 votes in the

1:53:48affirmative and 26 against. The The

1:53:52motion is adopted.

1:53:54So, now we're going to go back to

1:53:56Article 13 with the two amendments

1:53:59passing. So, the

1:54:01The motion has been updated for Article

1:54:0313. That is on the floor right now. Is

1:54:07there anything further to be said on

1:54:09Article 13 with the amendments?

1:54:15Hearing none.

1:54:16All those in favor, please signify by

1:54:19voting yes. All those opposed, please

1:54:21signify by voting no.

1:54:28>> [snorts]

1:54:38>> 10 seconds remaining.

1:54:46Please stop voting.

1:54:49We have recorded 279 votes in the

1:54:52affirmative, 35 votes against. That does

1:54:55reach 2/3 majority. The motion is

1:54:58adopted.

1:55:01We're going to move to Article 14, text

1:55:03but I think I've asked um

1:55:07a Mr. Bernard Gauthier to step forward

1:55:09to um to make the motion on this

1:55:11particular article.

1:55:16And I

1:55:17remind me you're a Charlton voter.

1:55:20>> No.

1:55:20>> Okay, so then I you we didn't get that

1:55:22clear. So, you'll have to have a seat.

1:55:24>> Okay.

1:55:25>> Sorry.

1:55:25>> That's okay.

1:55:27>> I know when I talked to you on the

1:55:28phone, I had thought that you were. So,

1:55:30that's fine. So, for Article 14, zoning

1:55:33map amendment, change 269 Worcester Road

1:55:37to see if the town will change the

1:55:39zoning designation of the property

1:55:41located at 269, previously 293A

1:55:45Worcester Road, Worcester Road,

1:55:47Charlton, Mass, identified as parcel

1:55:5036-B,

1:55:512.5, consisting of approximately 15 yd,

1:55:55plus or minus, from its current

1:55:59I'm sorry, 15 Do you guys are still

1:56:01paying attention? I love it. 15 acres,

1:56:04plus or minus, from its current zoning

1:56:06district of business enterprise park to

1:56:09community business. The proposed

1:56:11amendment shall be depicted on the

1:56:13zoning map attached hereto and

1:56:15incorporated herein by reference or take

1:56:18any action relative thereto or thereon.

1:56:21And I would ask our chair of the

1:56:22planning board to make the motion.

1:56:25>> I move that the town take affirmative

1:56:27action on Article 14 as printed in the

1:56:29warrant.

1:56:31>> Second.

1:56:32>> Motion's been made Thank you. Motion's

1:56:33been made and seconded.

1:56:37May I have the recommendation of the

1:56:38planning board?

1:56:39>> The planning board supports supports

1:56:41this motion.

1:56:42>> Is there anything to be said on this

1:56:44matter?

1:56:53>> [snorts]

1:56:53>> Go ahead.

1:56:54>> Josh Sabourin

1:56:56Josh Sabourin, 97 Blood Road. Can the

1:56:59owner of the property speak to why he's

1:57:01looking for the change and what he

1:57:02intends to do with the property

1:57:03thereafter?

1:57:04>> I'll second that motion.

1:57:06>> Oh, that's it. You came up for. Perfect.

1:57:08Thank you. And um we need a motion. So,

1:57:11we have a motion and a second to allow

1:57:12the property owner who's a

1:57:13non-registered voter in the town to

1:57:15speak. That requires town meeting

1:57:17approval to do so. So, I need um I'm

1:57:20going to do a voice vote. All those in

1:57:22favor to allow the owner of the property

1:57:24who is a non-registered voter to speak,

1:57:26please signify by saying "I".

1:57:28>> I.

1:57:29>> Those opposed, signify by saying "No".

1:57:32It's unanimous.

1:57:34Mr. Mr. um Gautier, I'd ask you to come

1:57:36forward and and speak a little about the

1:57:38property.

1:57:39>> Uh the property is uh located over

1:57:41behind um ADT, which is an auto mechanic

1:57:45uh facility on the corner of Carol Hill

1:57:47Road.

1:57:49Um this 15 acres

1:57:52uh is in the vicinity where the town

1:57:53itself has converted some land along

1:57:56Route 20 to community business.

1:57:58The reason for doing community business

1:58:00was it allows more opportunities for

1:58:03um

1:58:05uh services for the townspeople

1:58:07and not just an industrial site.

1:58:09So, that's what I was looking to do. Um

1:58:12as far as in exactly what kind of

1:58:15businesses would operate in there

1:58:17would um be determined by the

1:58:19performance study that would be

1:58:20performed

1:58:22once we know that we can do this.

1:58:24And then

1:58:25the planning board has to approve all of

1:58:28this in the in the future. I can't just

1:58:30go build whatever I want. Um but I want

1:58:33to do something that's more for the

1:58:34people.

1:58:35Um what I've been hearing is there's no

1:58:38small grocery stores. There's no

1:58:41um there's no finer restaurants in town.

1:58:44Um those are a couple of the things that

1:58:46we were looking at.

1:58:49>> Thank you. I would remain available.

1:58:51>> Oh, you I

1:58:53>> [laughter]

1:58:55>> Is there Is there to be anything said on

1:58:58this matter?

1:59:00See, I told you.

1:59:01>> Okay.

1:59:03>> Go ahead.

1:59:04>> Just Buick 187 Sunset Drive. So, this is

1:59:07actually

1:59:08nothing, the property owner, but for the

1:59:10the planning board

1:59:12>> Please.

1:59:12>> uh through you, Mr. Moderator. We've

1:59:14spent a lot of years in town not going

1:59:16for spot zoning, right? And trying to

1:59:17make things more contiguous and and and

1:59:20more kind of cohesive. And this looks

1:59:23like we're going back to spot zoning

1:59:24here. So, my simple question would be

1:59:27what is allowed in CB that's not and I

1:59:30guess this might be a very technical and

1:59:31long question. I'm not really looking

1:59:33just for the highlights here, but what's

1:59:35allowed in CB that's not allowed in BEP?

1:59:38>> Yep, and I'll I'll have the planning

1:59:39board members answer it or

1:59:42town our town planner will answer that

1:59:44question. Go ahead.

1:59:49>> Yeah, I know uh I don't have the whole

1:59:51zoning table in front of me, so I won't

1:59:52go through all of the uses, but I know

1:59:54in some preliminary conversations I've

1:59:56had with the property owner, one of the

1:59:58uses that he was considering would be uh

2:00:00residential, which wouldn't be allowed

2:00:03in

2:00:04um the business enterprise park. Um and

2:00:07I think yeah, restaurant as well was

2:00:09another use that was considered that

2:00:11would have been more suited to the

2:00:13community business. So, generally uh

2:00:17kind of the lower scale uh businesses

2:00:20uh lower impact is what would be

2:00:22allowable in community business. Um

2:00:25or generally something like heavy

2:00:26industrial even light industrial is is

2:00:28more suited towards

2:00:30business enterprise park, which is

2:00:31something that the property owner was

2:00:33not looking to do uh in my conversations

2:00:35with them prior to this coming for the

2:00:37planning board.

2:00:39>> Does Does that answer your question?

2:00:41Yes. Oh.

2:00:43>> Sorry, and just also answer the spot

2:00:45zoning question as we reviewed this as

2:00:46well where community business was

2:00:49um across the street and generally as

2:00:51you look along Route 20, you'll see

2:00:55business enterprise and community

2:00:57business kind of interspersed

2:00:59throughout. Um So, as we reviewed this,

2:01:02a change along Route 20 from business

2:01:05enterprise to community business didn't

2:01:08appear to us as spot zoning and I

2:01:09believe our our legal counsel didn't um

2:01:12find this to be spot zoning, either.

2:01:19>> Thank you for answering that and um I

2:01:22There's a diagram in the packet if you

2:01:24people got to the turn the pages about

2:01:27this article just to be clear that it is

2:01:29in the in the uh warrant booklet.

2:01:33Is there anything else to be said on the

2:01:35matter?

2:01:37You may have a seat. Thank you.

2:01:40If nothing to be said,

2:01:44at this um for this article, we need 2/3

2:01:47majority for this to pass per Mass.

2:01:49General Law.

2:01:52All those in favor, please signify by

2:01:54voting yes. All those opposed, please

2:01:56signify by voting no. Please vote now.

2:02:1210 seconds remaining.

2:02:20Please stop voting.

2:02:22We have recorded 260 votes in the

2:02:24affirmative, 56 votes against. It does

2:02:28reach 2/3 majority. The motion is

2:02:31adopted.

2:02:34>> [clears throat]

2:02:36[snorts]

2:02:36>> Article 15.

2:02:38Citizen's petition, automated license

2:02:41plate reader surveillance

2:02:44to see if the town will vote to adopt a

2:02:46non-binding resolution expressing the

2:02:49sense of town meeting that the select

2:02:51board should one suspend and deactivate

2:02:55the town's use of Flock Safety automated

2:02:57license plate reader cameras and

2:03:00and any substantially similar networked

2:03:02automated license plate reader system.

2:03:05Two, terminate or decline to renew

2:03:08associated contracts to the extent

2:03:10legally permissible.

2:03:12Three, authorize no expansion or

2:03:15additional acquisition of such systems

2:03:17and approve no further expenditures for

2:03:19their operation, maintenance, renewal,

2:03:22expansion, or replacement except for

2:03:25costs legally required to wind down

2:03:27existing operations.

2:03:29Four, require after satisfaction of

2:03:31applicable legal preservation

2:03:33requirements, the deletion of Charlton

2:03:35data retained by the vendor.

2:03:38And five, conduct a publicly noticed

2:03:41review before considering any future use

2:03:43of automated license plate reader

2:03:45technology or take any action relative

2:03:49thereto thereon.

2:03:51I'm going to ask the petitioner,

2:03:53Michelle Chalmers, to step forward

2:03:55to make the motion.

2:03:58>> [clears throat]

2:03:59>> And identify yourself, please.

2:04:00>> Michelle Chalmers, 46 Prindle Hill Road.

2:04:04I move that the town take affirmative

2:04:06action on Article 15 in the warrant as

2:04:09printed.

2:04:10>> Is there a second?

2:04:12Motion's been made and seconded.

2:04:15Is there anything to be said on the

2:04:16matter? Oh, and that that the town Did

2:04:18you want to start the first Yep, go

2:04:20ahead. The first Go ahead.

2:04:21>> That would be great. Yep.

2:04:22Uh

2:04:23good evening, everyone. Best for last.

2:04:26I'm speaking tonight about Article 15

2:04:29and why residents brought this citizens

2:04:32petition forward.

2:04:34In In

2:04:36Charlton installed four Flock

2:04:38surveillance cameras.

2:04:40The decisions about the technology, the

2:04:43vendor, and camera placement were made

2:04:46administratively.

2:04:48The selective board or the select board

2:04:50approved the use of town property.

2:04:53But the community never had a meaningful

2:04:55opportunity to understand or weigh in on

2:04:58what this technology actually does.

2:05:01For 2 years, these cameras have been

2:05:03recording license plates, vehicles, and

2:05:06their movements through our town.

2:05:09And what have we learned since?

2:05:11Our police department told us that more

2:05:13than 1,100 municipalities had access to

2:05:16Charlton's camera data.

2:05:19The police also told us that the FBI had

2:05:21requested access.

2:05:23Meanwhile, more than 40 Massachusetts

2:05:25communities, including many of our

2:05:28neighbors, have rejected, suspended, or

2:05:31discontinued Flock programs and other

2:05:34license plate readers.

2:05:36Why are so many communities

2:05:38reconsidering this technology? And what

2:05:41can Charlton learn from them?

2:05:43Because these aren't simply four cameras

2:05:46protecting our town,

2:05:48they're part of a growing interconnected

2:05:50surveillance network across America.

2:05:54And that raises a much larger question.

2:05:57Why are we building the infrastructure

2:05:59to track the movements of Americans who

2:06:02haven't committed a crime?

2:06:04Who controls that information? Who can

2:06:07access it?

2:06:08And who will control it 2, 5, 10 years

2:06:12from now?

2:06:13This isn't about opposing our police.

2:06:17It's about [clears throat] understanding

2:06:18the power of this technology and

2:06:20protecting our constitutional

2:06:23freedoms.

2:06:25We know more today than we did in 2024,

2:06:28and that's why this citizens petition

2:06:31matters.

2:06:32Tonight's vote may be non-binding, but

2:06:35it gives residents a chance to express

2:06:37their informed judgment.

2:06:40I ask the select board to listen

2:06:42carefully to what residents say tonight

2:06:45and take those concerns seriously.

2:06:48We can support public safety without

2:06:51surrendering our privacy, and decisions

2:06:54affecting our freedoms deserve

2:06:56transparency, accountability, and a

2:06:59voice from the people. Thank you.

2:07:10>> Go ahead.

2:07:11>> He's your first.

2:07:13>> I'm having gone I've been alternating.

2:07:14Go ahead.

2:07:15>> Great.

2:07:15>> Uh

2:07:16Good evening. Cutter Beck, 46 Gould

2:07:18Road, where I live approximately 1 mile

2:07:20from the Flock camera on the corner of

2:07:22Northside Road and Stafford Street. For

2:07:25those of you unfamiliar with the area,

2:07:26this street corner is home to a

2:07:28revolutionary era militia training

2:07:30field, and across the street is the

2:07:32historic Rider Tavern. This field was

2:07:34used by the citizens of Charlton to

2:07:36train against oppressive British rule.

2:07:38Now, the start of a very capable

2:07:39surveillance system sits at the same

2:07:41crossroads used by those brave citizens

2:07:43before us.

2:07:44This is only one of four cameras in town

2:07:46with four more possible

2:07:48unless we take this chance to vote on

2:07:50this resolution and open a dialogue on

2:07:52how much surveillance power we want our

2:07:54town to possess. I'm speaking you to you

2:07:56tonight not just as a neighbor, but as

2:07:58someone trained to understand these

2:07:59systems. I hold degrees in computer

2:08:01science, astrophysics, and German

2:08:03studies from WPI. My studies have taken

2:08:05me from the mechanics of AI to the

2:08:07history of how surveillance is used by

2:08:09state powers to extend reach over

2:08:10ordinary citizens. I'm a staunch

2:08:12constitutionalist who values privacy,

2:08:14the will of the people, and the

2:08:16long-term success of our town. I'm

2:08:18worried that the capabilities of the

2:08:20about the capabilities of the ecosystem

2:08:22Flock sells to customers like the

2:08:23Charlton Police Department.

2:08:25To the credit of the Police Department,

2:08:27I appreciate the multiple hours of

2:08:28extensive transparent dialogue I've had

2:08:31about how they currently use these

2:08:32cameras and the benefit it has provided

2:08:34the department. They have, however,

2:08:36expressed that they do not want too much

2:08:37overreach and Big Brother style powers

2:08:39in town that the Flock network can

2:08:41provide. I fear that utilizing even the

2:08:43most basic capabilities of this system

2:08:45opens the door to the future use of the

2:08:47Big Brother powers that the department

2:08:49currently denounces. Leadership in the

2:08:51police department will change at some

2:08:52point and I want to ensure that further

2:08:54surveillance is not brought into play in

2:08:56the future.

2:08:57While our town uses the current camera's

2:08:59still images only for license plate

2:09:01reading, car description searches, and

2:09:02traffic studies, other capabilities

2:09:04Flock sells are able to record video,

2:09:07search for people based on descriptions,

2:09:08detect sounds, and launch drones for

2:09:10investigation before police arrive at a

2:09:12scene. The cameras are not just like a

2:09:14person sitting in the same spot taking

2:09:16pictures of cars that pass by. They form

2:09:18a network around the country aggregating

2:09:20these images and videos for use by

2:09:22departments that share data with each

2:09:23other. Your cell phone images are not

2:09:25combined with over 120,000 other

2:09:27individuals to create an AI searchable

2:09:29network, but the Flock system does.

2:09:32Our department shares and approves

2:09:33searches from over 1,100 other police

2:09:35departments and they have the ability to

2:09:37search thousands of other departments'

2:09:39imagery in connection with crimes and

2:09:40other needs. While our department has

2:09:42expressed good intentions and safeguards

2:09:43thus far, I would be remiss to mention

2:09:45the numerous occurrences of misuse of

2:09:47the system throughout the country

2:09:49leading to the firing of officers due to

2:09:50stalking and following of intimate

2:09:52partners. There are audits in place to

2:09:54detect misuse of the Flock cameras the

2:09:55town has access to, but I would rather

2:09:57that not be even be a possibility in our

2:09:59town.

2:10:00Furthermore, ALPR networks are a massive

2:10:02technical and security risk for the

2:10:04town. Over the last year and a half,

2:10:05countless vulnerabilities in the Flock

2:10:07system have been publicly disclosed.

2:10:09More importantly, in sworn

2:10:11testimony to US Congress on September

2:10:1323rd, security researchers spoke of

2:10:15Flock cameras streaming with

2:10:16unauthorized access on the internet,

2:10:18easy breaches of the physical Flock

2:10:19cameras,

2:10:20>> your sentence, please?

2:10:21>> with granular invasion of privacy with

2:10:23cameras on a person's physical phone

2:10:24screen.

2:10:26>> Thank you.

2:10:26>> Thank you for your TIME THIS EVENING.

2:10:29>> [applause]

2:10:35>> GO AHEAD.

2:10:36IDENTIFY YOURSELF.

2:10:37>> YEP. HELLO, Christopher Merlo, 47 James

2:10:40Road. I was also liking to add on to a

2:10:43statement. Besides automatic license

2:10:45plate readers, there are other things

2:10:47similar in the system. They are also

2:10:50working in the same manner, like he said

2:10:52as well.

2:10:53Um drones and other similar things

2:10:56dedicated that are also directed to our

2:10:58technological devices. What people also

2:11:00don't realize as well that even though

2:11:03Flock is also the main subject of today,

2:11:06people can also, um

2:11:08you know, think for themselves. And

2:11:10also, there's ways to minimalize that

2:11:14vulnerability in your daily life as well

2:11:17without just relying on the playing

2:11:19board. So, there's other ways to do it

2:11:22without just going to the going to, um

2:11:25the town here today. But besides that,

2:11:27that's just another point. So, my point

2:11:29is there's other big things besides

2:11:32Flock, like drones and other things. And

2:11:34Flock is one of the major

2:11:36major other reasons that, um

2:11:40that the system is

2:11:43Yeah. Sorry, I I can't think of

2:11:44anything, but you get my point.

2:11:46>> Thank you for your comments.

2:11:49This side.

2:11:51Go ahead.

2:11:54>> Shay Matthews, 26 number 10 Schoolhouse

2:11:57Road. Sorry, I need a little more

2:11:58height.

2:12:01>> No problem.

2:12:01>> It's, uh, it's perhaps a bit of an

2:12:03overstatement to say it, but it's, uh,

2:12:05seems reasonable on a reflection of the

2:12:07evidence specifically presented before

2:12:08Senate before the Senate

2:12:10by security researcher Ben Jordan and

2:12:13other sheriffs and other testimony that,

2:12:16uh, we have already had and as in

2:12:18citizens arrested for stays for at least

2:12:2113 days as a result of placing a red

2:12:24Ford Bronco at at the position of an

2:12:26accident of a black Ford Bronco. And as

2:12:29a result of a lack of rigor, a lack of

2:12:31inquisitiveness, a lack of caution, a

2:12:33lack of curiosity by the involved law

2:12:35enforcement officials,

2:12:37a citizen, completely innocent, willing

2:12:39to offer testimony, offer evidence,

2:12:40offer receipts, and offer GPS history

2:12:43that it was not her at the accident was

2:12:45nonetheless incarcerated for at least 14

2:12:48days. Further, there is strong evidence

2:12:51that Flock does not work in good faith

2:12:52in participation or in partnership with

2:12:54the communities that it works with.

2:12:56After communities including colleges in

2:12:58Chicago have terminated their contracts

2:13:01with Flock, Flock has declined or

2:13:03has as of now not yet collected the

2:13:07recorders installed that they are now

2:13:10trespassing to collect information.

2:13:12Excuse me. And in addition,

2:13:14in addition to the 30-day retention cap,

2:13:17a logged case number should be included

2:13:19for each search. Already the awesome

2:13:21weight of this degree of surveillance is

2:13:23being shown to be used respons-

2:13:25irresponsibly with search justifications

2:13:28including things like LOL, LMAO, just

2:13:31finding my ex are all documented in

2:13:34evidence with timestamps and with

2:13:36corroboration from the community

2:13:38searched as a result of those efforts.

2:13:40We need to consider carefully whether

2:13:43and how we allow the surveillance state

2:13:45to continue to grow. I would encourage

2:13:47this august body and my fellow citizens

2:13:49to reflect on Lord Blackwell's

2:13:51formulation that it be better that the

2:13:54very bedrock that we inherited in our

2:13:56common law tradition here in the United

2:13:58States as we celebrate our 250 years,

2:14:00that it is better that 10 guilty go free

2:14:02than one innocent suffer.

2:14:04It is incumbent that we allow for

2:14:07innocence to be defended far more than

2:14:09it is important that we punish the

2:14:11guilty, that we know righteously and

2:14:14correctly that we not pursue everyone,

2:14:17but protect those who are innocent in

2:14:19fact and indeed. Thank you for your

2:14:20consideration, my fellow citizens.

2:14:26>> [applause]

2:14:31>> PETER COOPER JR., 194 BERRY Corner Road.

2:14:34Um, it can be

2:14:36a little tough in this era to understand

2:14:38exactly how much what tools, what powers

2:14:41we want to give the police. They're

2:14:42they're an important part of our

2:14:44community. They help keep us safe. It's

2:14:46good that they have some level of tools

2:14:49and ability to do that. And so, trying

2:14:52to figure out where that line is, I'm

2:14:54not really sure. Like, obviously a

2:14:56police officer sitting on a corner

2:14:58looking for a particular car going by,

2:15:00that's their job. That makes sense. You

2:15:03put a camera there, well, then it can

2:15:05look for every car that goes by.

2:15:07Um, but then it's tracking every single

2:15:10car that goes by, every single time, and

2:15:13not just license plates, but which

2:15:15bumper stickers it has, which color it

2:15:17is, all those details

2:15:19get logged and stored. And then you

2:15:20start putting those everywhere in town,

2:15:23and suddenly, as has just been said,

2:15:26you have a surveillance state where

2:15:28every move of everybody is tracked. And

2:15:30so, I don't know where the line is

2:15:32between that and a police officer can

2:15:35stand on a corner look at it, but this

2:15:37is definitely Well, we have now is past

2:15:39that line.

2:15:40And so, because I think that

2:15:44wanting a little privacy is not a crime,

2:15:46I would encourage people to support this

2:15:48measure. Thank you.

2:15:51>> [applause]

2:15:56>> Please go ahead.

2:15:57>> Jerry Sasser, 1 Applewood Lane. Uh,

2:15:59others have spoken to the civil

2:16:00liberties aspects, and I think that's

2:16:02very valuable, but I'm going to offer

2:16:05for additional information.

2:16:06Uh, a um, recent study by the Roseville,

2:16:10California police found a 71% error rate

2:16:14in stolen vehicle reports from Flock

2:16:16cameras.

2:16:17Um, this was uh, misreads on license

2:16:19plates where it would interpret an eight

2:16:21as a nine or something like that.

2:16:23Uh, a similar study, um, on a shorter

2:16:26time frame by the LAPD Inspector General

2:16:29Audit, uh, found approximately a 32%

2:16:32error rate in alerts. These were plates

2:16:34that were correctly read but produced an

2:16:37incorrect stolen vehicle alert as well.

2:16:39Uh, so from my perspective, uh, Flock,

2:16:42um,

2:16:43aside from the civil liberties issue,

2:16:44simply has far too high an error rate to

2:16:47be trusted.

2:16:49Thank you.

2:16:50>> [applause]

2:16:54>> Go ahead.

2:16:55>> Gwen Powell, uh, 235 Brillington Road.

2:16:58Uh, I want to thank everybody who's come

2:17:00with data and such like prepared

2:17:03statements. It's very, very clear that

2:17:05everyone is very passionate about our

2:17:07privacy, but also about the police force

2:17:11and how that power ends up being used. I

2:17:13would say that

2:17:15our expressions, at least in my opinion,

2:17:17this is not an anti-police, uh,

2:17:20sentiment. This is not an anti-authority

2:17:22sentiment. This is a sentiment for our

2:17:24rights, uh, to privacy and, uh, for our

2:17:28constitutional rights.

2:17:29Uh, so thank you, everybody.

2:17:32>> [applause]

2:17:33>> Uh,

2:17:34>> Robert Coleman, 25 West Applewood Drive.

2:17:37I just think another side of the

2:17:39conversation that, uh, seems to be

2:17:40missed it's

2:17:42some people have, uh,

2:17:44conceded that this is being run by local

2:17:46police, not some unaccountable

2:17:48bureaucracy thousands of miles away, and

2:17:50that these are not some crazy people or

2:17:54even people who don't know who we are.

2:17:56We elect the select board that is

2:17:58responsible for appointing these people.

2:18:01This is

2:18:02it's accountable, and other people have

2:18:05suggested that this could be part of

2:18:06some sort of runaway surveillance state,

2:18:09but the trend is in the opposite

2:18:10direction.

2:18:11Error rates are going to go down as the

2:18:13technology gets better. Accountability

2:18:16is going to increase, not only as

2:18:18individual stories highlight the reason

2:18:20for reform, but as Flock itself,

2:18:23certainly not happy about the bad PR,

2:18:25has every incentive to make a system

2:18:27that catches these things early. The

2:18:29reason we know about many of these

2:18:30abuses is because Flock found them.

2:18:33And so, to throw the baby out with the

2:18:35bathwater and

2:18:36stop a system that can catch a car

2:18:38thief, it can

2:18:41keep us at least somewhat safer, seems

2:18:43to be an unreasonable of a reaction. If

2:18:47we want to regulate the systems to make

2:18:49them more secure, we can make

2:18:50requirements that they take security

2:18:53measures, so that they can't be hacked.

2:18:55I certainly don't want them to be

2:18:55hacked. If we want a system that

2:18:58prevents people from being falsely

2:19:00pulled over, I and even detained, which

2:19:04I certainly agree with, we can simply

2:19:06have a higher standard of proof

2:19:08for pulling somebody over.

2:19:10And these are problems that can be

2:19:12solved without giving up the benefits.

2:19:14And uh

2:19:16if the recommendation of this vote were

2:19:19to be implemented, we would be throwing

2:19:21the baby out with the bathwater. And uh

2:19:23I think that a nuanced and effective

2:19:25policy is better than a uh

2:19:29overreaction, even if it's responding to

2:19:32real issues. We can work on them better

2:19:35than this.

2:19:36That's my view.

2:19:38>> Thank you for your um comment.

2:19:41And I'm going to continue here cuz

2:19:43they've been here for us to go ahead.

2:19:48>> Hi.

2:19:49>> [clears throat]

2:19:49>> Liz LaFrance, 13 Stafford Street.

2:19:51>> Thank you.

2:19:52>> Um I'm just saying today that I was

2:19:55never informed these were going to go

2:19:56in, and my house happens to be one that

2:19:58is on camera all day long, 24/7.

2:20:02These license These things capture

2:20:04license plates at approximately six to

2:20:0710

2:20:08um

2:20:09photos per second.

2:20:11That's great, except when you have a

2:20:13constant stream of cars and all the

2:20:15people that live around there being

2:20:16photographed 24/7. You can't go outside.

2:20:19You can't be in your front yard. You

2:20:21can't mow your lawn without being on

2:20:23camera.

2:20:26So, I hear about the Flock, the error

2:20:28rates.

2:20:30Yes, it's possible those error rates are

2:20:31going to go down.

2:20:33Are we finding them because Flock looked

2:20:35for them, or we finding them because we

2:20:36looked for them?

2:20:38Secondly, those will go down, but does

2:20:40our security go up?

2:20:42Anybody get a notification that their

2:20:44credit card was hacked?

2:20:46Hackers are not going to stop, and this

2:20:48data is valuable.

2:20:50Please get rid of the Flock cameras.

2:20:51THANK YOU.

2:20:55>> [applause]

2:20:58>> GO AHEAD.

2:21:00>> LEE, CAN YOU HEAR ME? HELLO. LEE

2:21:02FORGIONE, 20 Knollwood Drive.

2:21:05Um

2:21:06>> Oh, yeah.

2:21:07You turn the mic up if you have to. Like

2:21:09that. Yep, there you go.

2:21:10>> All right.

2:21:11Uh we're simply not voting on a camera.

2:21:13>> could start again though.

2:21:14>> Oh, sorry. Yeah. Lee Forgione, 20

2:21:16Knollwood Drive.

2:21:17Uh we're simply not voting on a camera.

2:21:20We're potentially authorizing a

2:21:22technology platform. Cameras can remain

2:21:24physically identical while the software

2:21:27behind them becomes completely

2:21:28different. Five years from now that

2:21:30platform could potentially have

2:21:31different analytics, different

2:21:33integrations, different retention

2:21:35periods, different sharing relationships

2:21:37and capabilities that haven't been

2:21:38developed yet.

2:21:39So, before anyone votes, I'd like to uh

2:21:41clear it like is there

2:21:43what prevents the system provided

2:21:45tonight from becoming a materially

2:21:46different surveillance system tomorrow

2:21:48without another vote?

2:21:50And if there is currently nothing

2:21:52preventing that, then why should we

2:21:53establish that protection before, not

2:21:55after approval?

2:22:00>> Thank you for your comments.

2:22:03Go ahead, sir.

2:22:04>> Robert McGrath, 83 Bond Road. I move to

2:22:07move the question.

2:22:09>> I have a mo- a motion to

2:22:11I have a motion to move the question and

2:22:13a second has been said.

2:22:15At this time, we're going to vote on the

2:22:17move the question stopping all debate.

2:22:20I would ask um if you are in favor to

2:22:23please signify by voting yes.

2:22:26Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Is there

2:22:28anything to be said on the matter as far

2:22:30as the motion to stop debate?

2:22:33Oh, I apologize. It's been a long night.

2:22:37Please, if all those in favor by moving

2:22:39the question, signify by saying I.

2:22:42>> I.

2:22:43>> Those opposed, signify by saying no.

2:22:46>> No.

2:22:47>> Motion passes. We're going to move

2:22:49directly to voting on Article 15.

2:22:56And there is no requirement for anything

2:22:58other than a majority vote.

2:23:04All those in favor, please signify by

2:23:06voting yes on your device. All those

2:23:08opposed, please signify by voting no.

2:23:2510 seconds.

2:23:31Please stop voting.

2:23:35We have 245 votes in the affirmative, 56

2:23:38votes against. THE MOTION IS ADOPTED.

2:23:41>> [cheering]

2:23:42[applause]

2:23:45>> BEFORE I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN,

2:23:46thank you for your patience with me.

2:23:48Thank you for your kindness, and I ask

2:23:49for a motion to adjourn.

2:23:51>> Mr. Moderator.

2:23:52>> Yes.

2:23:53>> we adjourn.

2:23:54>> Is there a second? All those in favor.

2:23:57>> [screaming]

2:23:58>> Have a wonderful evening. Thank you so

2:23:59much for your patience and kindness.

2:24:01We'll see you again soon.

2:24:05Most Meeting is adjourned.