2026-09-22 - Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting

0:07Okay. So, this is um

0:10Tuesday, September 22nd, 2026. Charlton

0:13Zoning Board of Appeals. Going to call

0:15the meeting to order. And do we have We

0:18don't have Brandy Schiller here yet. All

0:21right. So, we'll get back to Brandy.

0:24So, uh let's first review and approve

0:27the minutes from the last meeting. Do we

0:29have those?

0:31All right. Do I hear anything on the

0:33minutes from the last meeting?

0:36No.

0:37Is there any motions?

0:38Motion to approve the minutes.

0:40There's a

0:41second.

0:41There's a second on the motion to

0:42approve the minutes as as

0:45printed. All in favor say I.

0:47I.

0:48All right. That carries.

0:50All right. ZBA member reorganization. So

0:53once a year we have to set who is going

0:55to be the chair, the vice chair,

0:58secretary.

1:01Um we don't need a treasure.

1:06Uh clerk. There's a clerk. It's chair,

1:08vice chair, and clerk, I think. Right.

1:11All right. So who are we going to do?

1:16Do what is it right now? I'm the chair.

1:18Who's the vice chair?

1:20Rob.

1:21Rob's the vice chair. It's been so long.

1:23So,

1:24and who's the clerk?

1:25Who has been without a clerk since

1:28What does a clerk What do they all do?

1:31No, I mean, the only thing I So, he just

1:34says it's just has a mirror to check to

1:36make sure that I'm still breathing. So,

1:38you know, the chair is dead. The vice

1:40chair, you can step in. Um, other than

1:43that, it's not You You have clerk stuff

1:46that might need to get signed, but

1:47that's about it. There's not really any

1:48kind of major roles for anybody or

1:51whatever.

1:52So,

1:54it's up to you. We want to reach I I

1:56think we should name I would nominate

1:58Rob as the vice chair again. Jason is

2:01the clerk.

2:02Jason,

2:05you want to nominate Jason as the vice

2:07chair? Jason as the vice chair.

2:09Garrett the clerk. You want to do that?

2:10Garrett the clerk.

2:12Is that a nomination?

2:13I like that.

2:13You want me to stay chair? Does someone

2:15else want to be chair?

2:16You can be chair.

2:17Oh, thanks.

2:19You earned it. I've earned it. You can

2:21give it up.

2:24I'll give it up if someone else wants

2:25it. I don't really care. Um, I guess

2:28not. All right. So,

2:29season starting. I can't

2:32be hunting from now till next year.

2:35That's right. That's right. All right.

2:38So, do we have formal nominations? Does

2:41someone want to make the formal

2:42nominations?

2:45Anybody?

2:46So, I'll nominate Jason as vice chair,

2:51Garrett as clerk. Is a second on that?

2:53Second. All in favor say I.

2:55I.

2:55All right. Who wants to nominate the

2:57chair then?

2:58I'll nominate the chair.

2:59All right. So, there's a nomination for

3:01the chair. Is a second on that?

3:03I second it.

3:04All right. All in favor say I.

3:06I. Motion carries. We took care of that.

3:09Um,

3:10this is

3:11Bonavville. I was at that meeting.

3:13Oh, okay.

3:15Wrong room, huh?

3:16He is the petitioner.

3:18Okay. Do we have something from him just

3:20authorizing him to speak?

3:22Yes.

3:22Okay. All right. So, you want to come

3:24over here? Oh, no. He can't. Can he Can

3:26the camera see him from there?

3:28Yes.

3:30They'll see him. You should sit over

3:31here.

3:31Yeah. You sit right there.

3:32Okay.

3:35This is property located at 45 Lake View

3:38Drive.

3:38Okay.

3:39All right.

3:40Can you state your name and for the

3:42record, please?

3:43Yep. Raymond Bonville.

3:44Okay. So, you want to tell us

3:48and you're not the owner of the

3:50property?

3:50No.

3:51Okay. So, you want to What's your

3:53I'm the I'm the uh contractor.

3:56Okay.

3:56And um there was uh a tree that landed

4:00on the house.

4:01Yeah.

4:01And um totally demolished it.

4:04Okay.

4:05It's been uh in the family for like

4:07three generations.

4:09And uh we're putting it into the same

4:11spot that uh it was originally in.

4:14Okay.

4:16So what you're just asking for a special

4:18permit or you asking for?

4:20Yes. Special permit code.

4:24Special permit and the bearings.

4:29The septic and the water is is

4:34it's town

4:36in town water too, isn't it?

4:38No.

4:39want it as well.

4:40Okay.

4:48So, are you changing the dimensions of

4:50the with the exist how long ago did the

4:52structure get the roof fall on it?

4:56About two years ago.

4:57Okay.

4:59We're not past the point where it's

5:01considered abandoned, is it?

5:04Well, when it's my turn, I'll lay out

5:06the chronology.

5:12So this is your plan.

5:21So this is a the house is going to stay

5:23in the exact same spot. Correct.

5:39The well is in the front.

5:41In the back.

5:42Oh, I see it. I said just a cover. Yes.

5:45Um

5:57So it says connect to existing sewer. So

5:59that's

6:01yes connect.

6:04You guys have any questions?

6:07Rob agent Ryan what we the house isn't

6:11there's nothing on the property now

6:12right there permanent variance but what

6:15for

6:16just the what?

6:17Just the seller. Okay.

6:24Previous house has been demolished.

6:26Yeah, it was um um

6:33Okay.

6:36So, you're stating what's existing on

6:38here. Can you just let us know?

6:40Uh right now, there's nothing on there.

6:41You said part of the something. Uh yeah,

6:44just the uh just the cell hole and

6:46there's some more of the the old stone

6:49foundation and that and that's going to

6:51be removed too. Not much of it is left.

6:55Excuse me.

6:58Okay.

7:00You have any other questions? Garrett,

7:01do you have any questions?

7:04No. I'd like to hear Curtis's timeline.

7:06All right. So, we want to call the

7:07building inspector enforcement officer.

7:11Good evening, Kurt Mascus, building

7:13commissioner, zoning enforcement

7:15officer. If you don't mind, I have the

7:16usual set of handouts. One for her, you

7:19get the planning, so you can follow

7:21along. Thank you.

7:23And uh

7:26yeah,

7:31get one out of there. Give it to the

7:33nice lady over here.

7:37this way

7:39and some of these around that way.

7:45You're welcome.

7:48So, the subject property is on Lake View

7:50Drive. It's a 30 by approximately 100

7:53foot lot. It was improved by a camp

7:56style building

7:59uh shown uh in the next page on April of

8:022022 when I was summoned to the site

8:05because a tree had crashed down upon the

8:08building. Um

8:11in October 2024, Mr. Bonavville

8:14undertook demol demolishing the rest of

8:17the building without a building permit

8:20and ran into some issues with hazardous

8:24material on the site. Currently 45 Lake

8:27View Drive, page three is a vacant lot

8:31and we show 51 Lake View Drive to the

8:34right. U that's incorrect because that's

8:39can't be on both sides. That's not 51.

8:41It's

8:4347 or 49, something like that.

8:47And then 51 on the lower part of the

8:50page.

8:5151's the red one

8:53on the top.

8:54On the top.

8:55Yeah.

8:56Oh, it is 51. What's the next one? The

8:58white one would be 57

9:03maybe. I don't know. It's down the

9:05street. So,

9:05you're the you're the little red one.

9:07I am.

9:07Okay.

9:08Yes.

9:08Thank you for helping me with that.

9:11Um,

9:13so anyway, the the lower part of the

9:15page is the next house to the right with

9:17with an incorrect number. Uh, 41 Lake

9:20View to the left and there is a common I

9:23believe it's a piece of town land um

9:26that gives access to the lake. Uh 29

9:30Sunset Drive extensions across the

9:32street and then 42 Lake View also across

9:37the street. And as I started to say in

9:40April of 2022, the house was struck by a

9:44tree. In October of 2024,

9:49um, demo was started without a permit. A

9:51stop work order was issued. Between

9:54November and December, we worked with D,

9:57the applicant to deal with the hazardous

10:00material on the site. In February of

10:032025, the demo permit was issued and

10:07approximately in March of 2025, the home

10:11was removed.

10:13So, we're in a sort of funky state here,

10:16right?

10:17There was still part of a structure in

10:192025, though.

10:20No, there hasn't.

10:23Well, there was a structure in February

10:26of 2025.

10:27Okay.

10:29And in March, it was removed. So in

10:322025, so we're March, so we're less than

10:35two years

10:36into it if there was still portion of it

10:38portion of it there.

10:40Yeah.

10:40Okay. So now we have two issues. The new

10:43the new zoning laws say that um a lot

10:48that's pre-existing non-conforming to

10:50area frontage or both and the

10:53renovations do not offend the setback.

10:57Um I could issue a permit by right.

11:00Right. But they do.

11:02But they do.

11:03Yeah.

11:04And then we have Mr. Bonavville's plan

11:07submitted with the application

11:11which shows a slightly larger house than

11:15what was there. But we have a five foot

11:19setback on one side, a 5ft setback on

11:22the other, which obviously offends

11:24current zoning setback of 15 ft. M

11:27and we have a 30 foot front and rear set

11:30back which you know we don't have a

11:32problem with. So

11:33right just the side set back

11:35so it would require 10 ft.

11:36So we require a 10T variance on each

11:39side

11:39side and a special permit

11:42because it's a pre-existing nonwarming

11:44lot.

11:45The slight increase is that due to

11:47overhang or is it actually just the

11:50layout? That's I mean we're talking you

11:53know a foot or two you know of

11:56additional

11:58is proposing to stay 5t off the property

12:00line at 5t we don't get into issues with

12:04building code and having to rate walls

12:06because we're within 5t of the property

12:08line.

12:09Yeah.

12:10Um so that that isn't an issue for my

12:12other half.

12:13Okay.

12:14And um as he said there is municipal

12:18sewage on the street and and you know

12:20they indicate that it's a well on the

12:22street or on the property

12:23on the property. Okay.

12:25So right now it's six or seven feet off

12:27the line

12:28probably. But I I don't I can only go by

12:32what the plan was because there was no

12:34survey done to my knowledge of the house

12:37location was you know my brothers would

12:40have been is is if we approach this is

12:43and and in 2022 2023 2024

12:48you know oh yeah you want to remove and

12:50replace this building let's go to ZBA

12:52we'll get a straight special permit to

12:54change alter extend under the the other

12:56regulations you know the previous law

12:59Now we're into Okay. It offends the

13:01setbacks. So, we need a special permit

13:04because the lot's on sides.

13:05Yeah.

13:06And need variances on the two sides

13:08because it offends the setbacks.

13:11We got 30 ft of furniture on this, too.

13:13Huh.

13:16Yeah. It's tight.

13:17They're all tight.

13:18Yeah.

13:19So, that's what I have, ladies and

13:21gentlemen.

13:22Yeah.

13:23Foundation. Same foundation or replacing

13:26foundation? We're replacing it with a

13:28stone foundation,

13:34but the new foundation hasn't been put

13:36in yet.

13:37Nothing's been done. Nothing

13:40you're getting all the permits this time

13:42first.

13:42Yes.

13:47Okay. Um, we have some more butters

13:50here.

13:51Yep. Me.

13:52Okay. You want to

13:55I know, right? I did her house, too.

13:57Oh, did you?

13:58If you just so she can speak and get in

14:00the camera, if we could have her sit

14:01there for a moment. Okay.

14:03You want to just come up, state your

14:04name and address for the record.

14:05Yes.

14:06And then just um

14:09if you have any comments on property, so

14:12I have questions.

14:13Okay.

14:14Um Kim Mason, nice to meet you. 51 Lake

14:17View Drive, Charlton. This um is very

14:21important to us. this house. My

14:23greatgrandfather and grandfather built

14:25this little camp that we live in and our

14:28neighbors are wonderful and we want to

14:29do right by them. We just want to make

14:31sure that the house does not become one

14:34of those extra McMansions and encroaches

14:36on our property. Um

14:38the property line is so thin as it is

14:41anyway and we've always gotten along

14:42with those neighbors. They're great.

14:45Um it's ours our house is a camp as

14:47well. It's not a it's not a year round

14:49home. It's a camp.

14:51season.

14:52And so, um, it looks like it's larger,

14:56which is what I was worried about. Um,

14:58and it looks like it's closer, which is

15:00also what I'm worried about because it's

15:02already so tight on both.

15:05So, how much closer do you think it will

15:07be from the old house?

15:09See, you can even if you went down there

15:11now, you would be able to see where the

15:13old property was because the hole is

15:15still there, right?

15:16And we didn't we haven't touched it. We

15:18haven't done anything to it. and we

15:20we're the only ones next to it,

15:21right?

15:22Um and you can see that that there's

15:24more than seven feet there. So going

15:26down to 5T would we would definitely

15:29feel that. I was more concerned about

15:31the height too. Like I'm worried that

15:34there's a there's a limit on the height.

15:36Um Oh, and and I get so I understand

15:39like you can't go out so you're going to

15:41go up

15:42and and that happens. But is the front

15:44are they going to be pushed more in the

15:45front? Is there going to be like an

15:47extensive porch put on the front that

15:50you

15:51I did see that.

15:52Yeah. So, are you considering this the

15:54front or this the front? The road I

15:56would consider as the front.

15:57Oh, I I thought you always talk about

15:58the lake as the front.

16:00When you have a lake house, it's always

16:02the front lake.

16:03No, because

16:05we

16:05Oh, my grandpa was wrong.

16:07Well, I I know what lake people do, but

16:09I'll give you my opinion.

16:10I'll do whatever you want.

16:12No, I believe you. And you're you're

16:14lovely. I just want to make I'm talking

16:17about lake frontage.

16:19I don't care about the road.

16:20I don't look at the road.

16:22I actually hate that road and I will put

16:24that on record that the road is terrible

16:26and that I get a river through my

16:28property which is a whole separate

16:30problem that Ry tried to actually help

16:32me with and we do have a rare running

16:34through my property.

16:35It does not appear that I mean this is

16:37it. It looks like they're going to be 37

16:39feet off of the road and then at least

16:42that off between the back of the house

16:44to the lake.

16:45They were further back than we were. Are

16:47they Are they supposed to be that way?

16:50Yeah. So, this is your exist. This is

16:52your house right here.

16:53Yes.

16:54So, that's the back of their house would

16:55equal the back of their house front.

16:57And what about their porch?

16:59This doesn't have a porch in it. This

17:02is putting one back on.

17:04This plane doesn't have a porch. How are

17:06they going to get down the stairs?

17:08There's going to be a deck in the back,

17:10but not but no porch in the front.

17:14It's um it's a little one, Joan. It's

17:16just to get out and then take a left and

17:19go down the stairs.

17:21How many floors is the house going to

17:22be?

17:23Two.

17:24So, do you mean what it used to have,

17:26which is like the basement seller with

17:28the rock cellar and then one floor, or

17:31do you mean two up?

17:32Uh yeah, it's going to have a basement.

17:34It's going to have the kitchen on the

17:37main floor and the bedrooms upstairs.

17:39So, it is going to be a lot taller.

17:41No, not really because um the the attic

17:43had uh pretty close to 7 ft.

17:47Although although it was a a kind of a

17:50A12 pitch, but um alls we're going to

17:53really do is keep it the same try to

17:56keep it in the same spot, the same size

17:59house, everything. But the only thing

18:01that's going to be different is that

18:02they're going to have a remodeled uh

18:04basement, better basement. Instead of

18:06having a dirt floor and

18:07yeah,

18:08dirt there and everything, it'll be uh 8

18:11foot walls.

18:14So there is a there is a limit in in

18:17town to the height of the building. What

18:19is it? 20 36 feet to the mean roof

18:22height from the mean grade.

18:25I was just studying statistics today in

18:28AP. I was like that means average. I got

18:31you follow that.

18:34That was good. Okay. 36.

18:36So that's the So that's the top of the

18:39roof.

18:40That's the peak.

18:42So that's that's the height that they

18:43could go. They can't go higher than

18:44that.

18:45Okay. Uh in terms of the overall

18:48footprint

18:51from what the the zoning enforcement

18:52officer tells us, it is slightly larger

18:54than what was there before.

18:57I'm I'm only relaying what is shown on

19:00the plans. I have no measure.

19:02It appears slightly larger.

19:04you know, it appears. So, the red line

19:09in the existing house and a little bit

19:11of green around the outside is and at

19:14this scale, which is

19:18telling me that it's uh

19:221 in equals 10 ft, which is about right.

19:26I mean, that's a little more looks like

19:27a little more than a half an inch,

19:30you know. You're talking like you said.

19:31Yes. It looks like it was might have

19:33been seven feet from the property line

19:35before and he's asking specifically to

19:38be

19:395T

19:435T.

19:44Now that's that's the board's decision.

19:48You know that you know that's why we're

19:49talking about a special permit and a

19:51variance.

19:55So the variance is the board's way

19:58decision

19:58decision to Yeah, you just get the

20:01information.

20:02What's this thing?

20:03It' be nice for more detail like an

20:05elevation. There's no depth on it.

20:07767

20:09proposed roof drains. So, we have to

20:11deal with storm water management

20:15conservation.

20:17It's basically something

20:19roofed or something

20:23and then they get a new concrete wall.

20:26That's not

20:29That's conservation.

20:30Well,

20:31I wish that they could continue that

20:33into 51 Lake View.

20:35Well, okay. So, that two two things on a

20:38on a concrete wall at a lake. One, it's

20:41it's working within 100 ft of a well and

20:43you're you're on the lake. where almost

20:45anything you do.

20:46It sure is.

20:48Sure does.

20:48It does. And then um but if it is a

20:51retaining wall at the lake, then it

20:53would need a building permit, but it

20:55would be the building permit would be

20:56reviewed also by conservation because we

20:59work together around these properties.

21:01So if I ever got a cement front, then I

21:04would a cement wall by the lake, I would

21:06have to go through you guys, too.

21:07That's great.

21:10You should do it.

21:10Well, we don't want them to fall over

21:12and hurt people. Oh, I believe I

21:14understand. There's just a lot of steps

21:16and a lot of money.

21:19Okay. I hope it's not too close cuz now

21:22it's going to be taller.

21:26I hope it's not too close. That's all.

21:28But they're very nice and I want them to

21:30have their home back.

21:32Okay.

21:32That's all I have.

21:34So, generally, you're okay with this?

21:35I am generally okay with it. And I'd

21:37like for them to be able to have their

21:38home. And I've worked with Ray in the

21:40past. He is a nice man. He follows

21:43through.

21:43Thank you.

21:44You're welcome.

21:45Sounds like she would prefer it not be 5

21:47ft and stay at seven, but

21:48I would prefer I mean I would prefer

21:50that. I just don't want to screw over my

21:52neighbors, but I don't want to get

21:54screwed either.

21:56I I'm curious, Mr. Von. Is there an

21:58elevation plan?

22:03It's actually on here. You can see the

22:04elevation layout.

22:06No, that I think you're talking about an

22:08elevation of the building.

22:09Of the building. So, let me go look at

22:11my files. It might take me a minute to

22:14to print it out if you want to indulge

22:16me.

22:17I'm going to have Mr. Bonn come back. I

22:19don't mind unless you have anything else

22:21to add.

22:22I don't think you

22:23All right. Thank you. Uh, sir, do you

22:26have any

22:28Oh, no. I uh I'm the the new planning

22:30director here and

22:32Oh, I see. I'm sorry about that.

22:33I was working till 7. Your guys meeting

22:35started at 7:00, so I thought I'd come

22:36join see how you guys uh run your show.

22:38Nice.

22:40There is uh two steps

22:43down in the foundation.

22:45As the land goes on an angle like this,

22:49the foundation is going to sit like

22:50this.

22:54Mhm. Yeah. It'll be a step foundation.

22:55Yeah. So, it's going to be it the whole

22:58house ain't going to be no taller than

22:5924 ft

23:02from the bottom from the bottom of the

23:04ground at the back. You don't know how

23:07tall the old house was, though.

23:09Uh well actually um it it had a dirt

23:15cellar.

23:15Mhm.

23:16And it was sitting on peers.

23:19So in the back it will keep the same

23:22height. In the front you have to keep

23:25the same height because that's how you

23:28walk out. You walk out. You're right on

23:29land

23:31in the front.

23:32This will have a walk out basement.

23:33Yes. Okay.

23:34This will so that's how you access the

23:36backyard.

23:36It is that big. It was already that big

23:39already. You can walk right in.

23:41Okay.

23:43You had mentioned something about a deck

23:45that I don't see on the plans. Is

23:47uh

23:48Is the deck on the side or is it in the

23:50back?

23:50No, it's in the back. Uh in the front

23:54by the lake.

23:54By the lake.

24:00Well, I mean, if as long as if the deck

24:02is within the setback, then I'm not

24:04really too worried about that. It's just

24:06so have 15 feet on either side.

24:09Right.

24:10Right. If we're going to grant them a a

24:12variance on either side anyways,

24:17unless you want to specifically exclude,

24:19you know, a deck or whatever, we're

24:20granting a variance.

24:23No, I I understand that. It's just

24:25without seeing it here to have the plans

24:27approved and then add a deck later on.

24:30Right. But I mean, so if we grant a

24:31variance of 10 ft on either side

24:34and they add a deck and it's within the

24:35rear setback, he's not imposing on that

24:38variance any further than we've already

24:40granted.

24:40So granting the variance to the house

24:43does not grant the variance to the deck

24:45also.

24:47I think if we're going to grant a

24:49variance for the structure, unless we

24:51specifically exclude certain things, I

24:53think it would include the deck. If they

24:55decide afterwards that as long as they

24:57don't offend that variance, I think it's

25:00I think and it's part of that structure,

25:02I think they're okay. I mean,

25:03okay,

25:04but that would be up to Kurt.

25:05I have a question.

25:06Yeah.

25:09Variance is only for both sides, not the

25:11back and front.

25:12You don't need one for the back and the

25:14front, right? So the deck is the deck

25:17would automatically be allowed once the

25:19permates

25:19if his point is is that if you decide to

25:22put a deck on afterwards, right, the

25:25deck is going to offend the setbacks.

25:26But my point is that if we if we grant a

25:29variance and the deck's attached to the

25:31structure, I think it it it kind of

25:33carries with it.

25:35That's what I'm I'm I'm going to have to

25:38disagree with you on that.

25:39You don't think so? No, because we would

25:42have a action

25:45by the board that says according to this

25:48plan

25:50and that plan does not include a deck.

25:53If this was if this was an existing

25:55building,

25:57okay, under the way 4A is written, yeah,

26:00it says I can grant a permit as long as

26:04the work does not offend the setbacks.

26:07So adding a deck the full width of the

26:09house would now offend the setback.

26:12That's what I was wondering.

26:13Yeah, that's if we that's if we say

26:16according to this plan.

26:18Well, I'm I'm trying to the the big

26:20printer is warming up again.

26:22Okay.

26:23And I have a sort of crappy copy of a

26:26plan for this house.

26:30In a moment.

26:30By that logic, they could have a shed

26:32down by the somewhere too.

26:34Oh, please don't do that. That happened

26:35on my other side.

26:36I'm not Not saying they should, but

26:38please don't

26:39you want to say something?

26:40I I did, but I I wanted to get Kurt's

26:43take on it of a of an approach to adding

26:46a deck later that he may disagree with.

26:48Ultimately, he's the zoning enforcement

26:50officer. So, it will ultimately be his

26:52call if it comes back here. But, um,

26:55under pre-existing non-conforming, if a

26:58variance is granted here, um, the

27:01building commissioner does have the

27:03authority to

27:05um

27:07to allow for

27:09some intensification. Um,

27:13but again, it's it's his discretion. So,

27:16I just wanted to see kind of what his

27:18his take on was that and he has a better

27:19understanding of our bylaw of

27:23what degree he can actually do that and

27:24it's hard to say or you don't have a

27:26plan in front of you. Is this beyond

27:28that threshold or not? Uh because it

27:30could be a kickback to the the CDA.

27:33Let me ask you this question. You said

27:35you're just going to build a stairway.

27:36What how what are you what are you

27:38looking at in the

27:40middle the house is this wide? The deck

27:42is this wide and it has to be because we

27:45need to have two means egress. One of

27:49them is off the back deck with emergency

27:51exit.

27:52Oh, so it's a deck and stairs.

27:54Basically a landing out the building

27:56with stairs.

27:57Where is it going to be?

27:58I had thought they exited through the

28:00basement out to the level of the grade.

28:03Oh, no.

28:06Okay. So, this is the plan that was

28:09presented as part of the application

28:11that started this action.

28:13Oh,

28:18that's a much bigger deck.

28:21Yeah,

28:23that's in a That's a deck deck.

28:27House.

28:33All right. We have more to change the

28:36plan.

28:39This is the plan that you submitted as

28:41part of the application bill.

28:43Yep.

28:44Can Can you uh we take a closer look at

28:47that?

28:49So, it's showing a 12 by 30

28:52two deck.

28:55They're showing the building on the

28:57Well, they have a nice ortho of the

28:59building. This would be the lakeside.

29:02They're showing the building is 26 I

29:07think I'm reading this right upside down

29:08268 to the top on the street side

29:13and

29:1533 ft to the top on the lake side

29:20that would be under the you know mean

29:23height and elevation. So under under the

29:26zoning bylaw, it is not exceed the you

29:29know allowed height

29:3212 ft of the deck.

29:35We added that.

29:36What's the back of the house?

29:37Oh god, it I don't think I even need to

29:40It's coming to me.

29:41What's the rear set

29:44on that?

29:45Wow. It says that it's 1 in equals 10

29:49ft. So 10 20 30 40 50 If this is blown

29:55up to scale, well, that's an inch. So,

29:59it's saying that it's 50 feet from the

30:01lake. Add 12 ft, you're still more than

30:0430 feet from the lakefront.

30:06Yeah,

30:08we really don't know the exact

30:10measurements.

30:14Of what, sir?

30:16Of the from from the back of this deck

30:19to the lake.

30:23We don't really know for certain.

30:27There you go.

30:301 in equals 10 ft. 10 20 30 40 50 55 ft.

30:36So that'd still be okay.

30:38So even with a 12 deck that deck that

30:40deck would offend, but still have to go

30:43get a permit for the deck

30:46if he did it after the fact if it's not

30:48in the building permit already.

30:49Sounds like

30:50Well, no, he said that is in the

30:51building. what was submitted is

30:53submitted with the deck.

30:55But you know from this plan right here

30:57is is that that deck is going to offend

30:58one side of the setbacks at least.

31:01Looks like both sides

31:02probably both with the stairs cuz the

31:05stairs are only

31:08does it say how wide the stairs are

31:10here? How wide are the stairs for the

31:123T 3T?

31:15Yeah. So it's still going to offend both

31:17sides. How wide is the building?

31:20How does it affect both sides?

31:22Well, we're giving the sides sep

31:24if we let them build it as it is.

31:27It wouldn't affect the sides any

31:29different. It would just be the rear.

31:31So, we're treating as the deck being a

31:33separate entity for the house.

31:35No.

31:35Well, no. The paper we were originally

31:37given didn't show a deck.

31:38Didn't show a deck.

31:39Oh.

31:40So, you were asking us for if we're

31:42going to grant you a variance according

31:44to the plan and there's no deck, you

31:45don't get a variance for the deck. You

31:47can't build the deck.

31:48Yeah.

31:49Oh.

31:50Well, we need to tackle because that's

31:52not a second egress. So,

31:55the options

31:56you only need a three foot landing and a

31:58set of stairs for the second egress. You

32:01don't need a deck.

32:03No.

32:06Is it silly not to have a deck on the

32:08lakefront property? Probably.

32:10If you're going to have the stairs, you

32:12might as well have the deck. No. Is it

32:14Does it

32:16What is it? Is it the size that's that's

32:19an issue?

32:20So, what's

32:23I was think I was

32:25What's that process?

32:28We can have him do that if you want.

32:30Well, it's not up to me. It's up to him.

32:33No, no. So, but he submitted the this is

32:36the plan that's submitted to the

32:38building department.

32:39This isn't this isn't the same

32:42layout that is to us to us.

32:45So, if

32:48If we grant a variance based on this

32:51right here,

32:52he can't do that.

32:53He can't do that because he didn't get a

32:54variance for all of those things.

32:56So, either he has to change this plan

32:58or he has to change that,

33:00right?

33:00Or he changes that,

33:02right?

33:04So, would he need continuation and

33:07change it? Would he need to withdraw and

33:09reapply?

33:10No, I don't think we need to withdraw

33:12something like that. I think we would

33:13just need a continuence to to amend have

33:16an amended plan.

33:18But do you do you want to go and get

33:21that? Do you want to have all that stuff

33:23on the plan be or and wait or do you

33:27want to just give them

33:29just wing it and give it to them? That's

33:31up to you guys.

33:36Well, we can't use the plan as our

33:39as our variance or our special permit.

33:41We would have to word it.

33:43We'd have to put it in the wording. We

33:46can't say as drawn on the plan, but it's

33:49not on the plan. So, do do you

33:51understand?

33:52Kind of.

33:53Yeah.

33:54It's just because the the deck is a I'm

33:58I'm looking at it as it's a different

34:00entity to the house

34:02because if whatever is granted to the

34:06house

34:08um would be

34:11granted, right?

34:12Because it's a separate entity.

34:15That's what they're saying. It's a tax.

34:17If we approve this as plans are

34:19submitted, this plan doesn't have a

34:20deck, which means you don't have a

34:21variance for the deck when you go to add

34:23that later.

34:24The deck has to be 15 off of the off of

34:27the side.

34:28Yeah, that's on a stairway. That's a

34:29deck.

34:31That's a 12 by 23 deck. That's a

34:34nice size.

34:36And we're not saying we have a problem

34:37with it or not. We're just trying to

34:38make sure that what we decide on is

34:41correct.

34:42Okay?

34:43Because what we were previously deciding

34:44on was this, which didn't show the deck.

34:46Now, this one shows the deck.

34:48Okay. So, I should change this with the

34:50deck on it. So,

34:52if you're going to do that, then I want

34:54I'd like to see better numbers exactly

34:58where the footprint is in relation to

35:01the uh where the proposed is it already

35:03lined out?

35:04Yeah.

35:05You already make Is it So, you don't

35:07know But you don't know exactly where

35:08the property line is, do you?

35:09Oh, yeah. It's been surveyed.

35:11Okay.

35:12Yep.

35:13So, I would suggest maybe the board have

35:16a continuence.

35:19What What day do we have until this?

35:21Um, November 11th.

35:22Okay.

35:24Have Mr. That's Veterans Day.

35:28Have Mr. Bonavville make any amendments

35:31that he would like to the plans

35:35and

35:38have the surveyor stake out the existing

35:44house and the proposed house on the

35:46property and we can go take a look at it

35:48and then the board could do a site visit

35:51so that it's very clear.

35:56Will they even be able to stake out what

35:57the old foundation was?

35:59Oh, it's still there.

36:00He says part of it with the stuff is

36:02still there. Yeah.

36:03Only only a portion is still there,

36:05right?

36:06The hole is still there, right?

36:09What I'm thinking is as they as they

36:11remove the foundation, they probably

36:12expanded the hole bigger than the

36:14foundation. I guess

36:15there wasn't much of a foundation there.

36:17It was just collapsed in, you know, dirt

36:20floor, stone camp foundation

36:23hanging on by a thread.

36:26Is that something you can do?

36:29What is being proposed?

36:32Putting the whole structure in the

36:33foundation.

36:34What Curtis is proposing?

36:36So, what we'd like is we'd like a

36:38revised plan showing the deck and any

36:41other stairs or structures that are

36:44going to be on the house. If we grant a

36:46variance, we want to grant a variance

36:48for the whole thing that you so you're

36:50not coming back to us in three months.

36:51Like, oh, by the way, we want a deck

36:53next spring. and then we have to revisit

36:55the whole thing. So we I don't any

36:57anything else that's going to be built

36:59as part of rebuilding the um

37:02the house that we don't want it all in

37:05one plan. The other thing that we want

37:07is it it seems that it's not

37:13exact on how much of a variance you need

37:16on the side setbacks. So from testimony

37:19from the neighbor and from what it

37:21appears on the plan there is that your

37:24new foundation might be two or three

37:27feet wider than the than the the

37:30previous structure. So we'd want to see

37:33exactly how many feet from the line on

37:36each side are you going to be on the

37:37house including where the deck is. So if

37:41we're going to grant a variance, we're

37:42going to grant a variance for the right

37:43number, not just kind of wing it.

37:46It ain't winging it. It has to be in

37:48that spot.

37:49No, we're not I'm not saying that it

37:50doesn't have to be in that spot, but if

37:53if if the house was What is that? It's

37:5610 ft and you need seven. You're going

38:00to make me I can't do math. Um

38:05I did the new math. I just can't.

38:06So, if it was 72t off of the property

38:08line before, so you're looking at two or

38:10three feet on each side.

38:12Now, if it's five feet, then that's a

38:13three foot difference. You're looking at

38:14you're looking at a little bit wider of

38:16a house than what was existing there

38:18before.

38:19And not saying that we won't approve

38:21that, but we'd want to know.

38:23Okay.

38:24All right.

38:24Yeah.

38:25Sure.

38:26Is that what everyone you good with

38:27that?

38:27Basically, he just wants to see it on

38:29the plan.

38:30When's the next time that everyone can

38:31meet because we don't have to wait till

38:32November 11th.

38:34Exactly.

38:34What's it September?

38:36Just show show the setbacks.

38:37Does all the plants do that on the

38:39foundation? A a lot of a lot of

38:42engineers put them on there for us

38:44for the foundation.

38:45Yeah. They'll put exactly like how many

38:47feet?

38:47I've never seen one. I've I've always

38:49seen them on a plan.

38:50Yeah. They put And if there's an issue

38:52with the rear with the setback by the

38:54lake, then we'd want to see that.

38:55Well, this is So, you're telling me this

38:57is just foundation plan right here?

38:59Yep.

38:59So, basically, if you added the deck to

39:02the foundation plan, you wouldn't do

39:03that anyways. You'd have to do the other

39:05plan with the deck on.

39:09The house has it.

39:11Yeah.

39:11Does the board want to see the proposed

39:15house staked out on the lot

39:19and do

39:19Can you do that?

39:20I I don't I think if the engineer has it

39:24all in the plans and that's the engineer

39:26is the one staking it to begin with for

39:29doing the build. But it's it's up to you

39:31guys.

39:32We did it.

39:33You already staked it out.

39:34Yeah.

39:35All right. And

39:36I have a picture of the hole.

39:37Yeah. We we might do a site visit.

39:40Oh, okay. I didn't know if you wanted to

39:41see just to see if it's worth your time.

39:43Yeah, we'd like to. So, the the board

39:45would be its members um maybe stopping

39:50by and do a site visit. That's not going

39:51to be an issue.

39:52When When will that be? Can you give me

39:55time?

39:55I have no idea.

39:57I'll have the whole after the rains.

40:02That would be next week.

40:03Yeah.

40:03After the storms blow in

40:05like crazy this weekend.

40:09I just want to let you know though, if

40:10there's a tornado, my shed is all set.

40:14Okay.

40:17You guys are going to see me again

40:19because I live on uh 20.

40:22So, it would be 73.

40:24So, it wouldn't be before the this

40:25weekend. So, one day next week if if any

40:29member of the board wants to go, I won't

40:31schedule it because it's it's a vacant

40:33lot. So, it's not like there's somebody

40:34home or anything like that. Right.

40:36You know, if it's staked out, they can

40:37stop by and take a look. And it's not

40:39like they need to go and and they're not

40:41interfering.

40:41Be careful because it it is uh it is it

40:45is in rough shape right now. The stone

40:47wall that was in the front,

40:49we had to knock that down so that we can

40:50get in there and get things out. So, uh

40:53it is kind of a rough terrain.

40:55So, what is it?

40:57Just be careful.

40:57Today's the 21st. 22nd.

41:00May I show you what it was?

41:0129 would be next Tuesday.

41:05You want to do two weeks? Can everyone

41:07do two weeks from tonight?

41:08Oh, so

41:1129. So a week after the next

41:15No, it would be the first week in

41:17October.

41:20We have to dock. You can't h do.

41:22No, I'm just making sure. I'm going to

41:24New York and I'm going to Maine and I

41:26got some trip.

41:27Oh, you're no longer the vice chair and

41:29now that's it.

41:30Listen, trust me. I would have went no

41:32matter what. So, October October 6th

41:38through the chair. Can I show you guys a

41:40picture of what you're looking at?

41:41Sure. I can do October 6th.

41:46That's cool.

41:48Oh, okay.

41:49Yeah. If you could stake out

41:52and if we do if we do uh if any member

41:54of the board wants to do a site visit,

41:56it'll be after this week.

41:58You'll see it very well. You have a pen.

42:00I'm going to stick with

42:02I did

42:03Okay.

42:04From state to state, state to state,

42:06you're going to see exactly what

42:08Okay.

42:08Where the house is going to sit.

42:10Yeah.

42:10And um the the the

42:13setback from the lake

42:15Yeah.

42:15to the foundation.

42:17You're not looking for that.

42:18And you're not looking for a snake that

42:20goes from the snake out front. I'm more

42:23concerned about the sides unless unless

42:26the deck unless you're building a deck

42:28so big

42:29that it's going to offend between the

42:31lake and the house. So if you're going

42:32to be more than 30 if you're going to be

42:34within the 30 ft from the lake to the

42:36house with the deck then you're going to

42:38need to do that. But it's

42:39Oh, we're fine. We're fine.

42:41But if the deck is on the drawing the

42:43next time we meet

42:44Yeah. Any the deck

42:46So I'll have that done.

42:47Right. And and then exactly how many

42:49feet from the line to the side of the

42:50house. We I want to know that if we're

42:52going to grant if we're going to grant a

42:54variance on it, we rather do that. Can

42:56we do that? Can everyone do the six?

43:00I don't have We got one. No,

43:02we got one.

43:05Be good to see the the side lot line too

43:08though next to the house rather than

43:09just

43:09Well, there's a fence on that.

43:11You know, the the lot that the

43:14We can't do the 13.

43:15You can't do the six.

43:16No, I can do the 13.

43:18We cannot do the 13. So

43:21the 13th is I got to pick my wife up

43:23from the airport on the Friday.

43:25Well, it will not be here. So

43:27yeah, we cannot.

43:31The week after that's what the 20th week

43:34um if you want to. We do have an

43:36application on its way

43:39and I would depend if they're able to

43:42get the application in I would be able

43:44to have them as early as October 27th.

43:47So, if you'd like to combine both into

43:50that meeting, we can.

43:53I could do that and two days later.

43:55No, I can do the 27th.

43:57Does that work for you?

43:59Any day, every day works for me.

44:01Yeah, I can make the 27th.

44:02All right, we'll do the 27th and that'll

44:04work.

44:05Well, I just don't I I have some work

44:07function. I don't know what day it is.

44:09Um, this is October 27th.

44:12Today's the 22nd of It's a month.

44:14Okay. September.

44:15Yes. All right.

44:20All right. So, a motion to continue this

44:22till October 27th.

44:25I'll make a motion to continue to

44:26October

44:2722nd. 27th, excuse me.

44:2927th.

44:30Second.

44:30There's a second. All in favor say I.

44:33I.

44:33So, you're going to get us those things.

44:34Submit them to Dale for us.

44:37So, what was your question?

44:38What day is that for?

44:40On Tuesday.

44:41Tuesday. Tuesday.

44:42It's a Tuesday. We always

44:43We always try to meet on Tuesdays.

44:45Yeah.

44:47Okay. So, uh I'm going to get a plan um

44:51with the with the deck on.

44:52Yeah.

44:53And that'll match that.

44:55Yeah. So, whatever you going to put in

44:56the permit, you want to match with what

44:57you're going to do with us.

44:58Okay.

44:59Yeah. Because if we grant you a variance

45:01and it's not on there, then you may not

45:03be able to get it on the permit and

45:04you're back here three months from now.

45:06Yeah. And it has to be on there because

45:08it is it is not required for having two

45:11eresses.

45:12Yeah.

45:13And with the setbacks.

45:14Yeah. So at the deck with the setbacks,

45:19does the egress out of the bottom floor

45:21count?

45:23Excuse me.

45:23Does the egress out of the bottom floor

45:25count? Is there too?

45:26It's on It's on on the main is on the

45:29main floor.

45:30You need two on the main floor.

45:34All right.

45:35Thank you for your time.

45:36Do you want to discuss the um

45:41you print those out again?

45:43Yes. So, first you're on.

45:46Thank you.

45:48You're awesome.

45:48All right. Thanks, guys.

45:50Have a great Have a great evening.

45:51Um, we're provided with a draft

45:54application withdrawal form.

45:57So, um,

46:02didn't we talk about having a draft

46:05extension form?

46:06Yeah, we should have that, too.

46:08One at a time.

46:09We'll do one at a time. We got this.

46:11I'm sorry. I thought when I listened to

46:12the meeting, you guys said withdrawal.

46:14That's fine.

46:15Yeah, that's for sure.

46:17So, you guys want to accept this as our

46:19official uh withdrawal form?

46:22I make a motion to accept.

46:24Okay.

46:26Second.

46:26All in favor say I.

46:28I. Motion carries.

46:30Did you add in the changes already to

46:32this?

46:33I did. Yes.

46:34Okay.

46:34The section that we last talked about

46:37was 3.7.

46:44That was my favorite of all.

46:50I don't remember what I did.

46:53I believe

46:54I I had gave you some additional changes

46:56that I had forgotten before. That's in

46:58there too.

47:05You've taken all this. So, we pretty

47:06much went in agreement everything up to

47:08that point, right?

47:14All right.

47:18Still think we should have our annual

47:20meeting in Barbados.

47:22Sounds wonderful.

47:24We should have enough.

47:25I second that.

47:29I thought that sounds like a motion to

47:31me.

47:34Oh, wait. Now I have to sign for

47:35everything, right?

47:36Yes.

47:49It's okay. I waste the food.

47:52I didn't take the money.

48:04Have you ever once ruled out a bull?

48:07Yeah. Yeah. I've had to tell people to

48:12No g.

48:13That happened a few times and

48:16No. Yeah. Hilka. That happened. That was

48:18Hila was crazy. Um and then the landfill

48:22one

48:24the

48:26they appealed Cassella appealed.

48:30We had to get a special zoning officer

48:33for that. And because Kurt was within

48:36300 feet of the landfill or was close.

48:39And um he couldn't he couldn't make a

48:41determination. So they they got the the

48:44zoning enforcement office from Lexington

48:46came out and made a deter. Were you on

48:48the board for that? No.

48:50You were on the board for that. Weren't

48:51you for

48:52Cassella?

48:53I forget.

48:55And Cassella hired some big

48:57environmental firm law firm in Boston.

48:59And they just they just kept trying to

49:02like we want to question the zoning

49:04enforcement officer directly. And I'm

49:05like no that doesn't doesn't work that

49:07way. You ask you ask and then I can ask

49:10the zoning enforcement officer. That was

49:12a little contentious.

49:16Um

49:21no personal attacks on applicants or the

49:23board.

49:25Just me

49:27jumping across the table.

49:29No, no, they were throwing at me.

49:32So, this right here, supplemental

49:33information section 3.10. The board will

49:36not consider any supplement information

49:38submitted less than 72 hours in advance

49:40of the public hearing unless deemed

49:42appropriate at the discretion of the

49:44chair.

49:46Do you want to have that in there? Do

49:48you want do you want to leave it just to

49:50the chair? Yeah, because we just got

49:52supplemental information.

49:53Yeah, we accept I accept everything, but

49:56I'm not always going to be the chair.

49:58I see

50:01you keep saying that.

50:02Well, it's just a matter of when my wife

50:04hits me with a shovel and buries me in

50:05the backyard, it'll be

50:08And does that include the acting chair

50:09if you're not here?

50:10Yeah, that's the vice chair.

50:12Yeah, it does. I would imagine.

50:14Like, does it need to say it or does it

50:16is it assumed?

50:17No, I think it's assumed.

50:18Okay.

50:20Do you want to leave that in there?

50:22So, I think that that kind of is a

50:23fallback

50:25that if we wanted to if we wanted to not

50:27allow extra documentation, right,

50:30that we could have the option to do

50:31that. Now, personally, I'm not if

50:33there's extra documentation unless

50:36unless the board says to says

50:39we shouldn't accept that, I'm going to

50:41accept every piece of document for the

50:43record that I can. time it's appropriate

50:46to use it or keep it as if there's a

50:48situation where it's like this is

50:49getting out of hand and I'm going to

50:51just nip it in the butt,

50:53right?

50:53You know, that's the only reason why we

50:55should actually keep it.

50:56All right.

50:58Yeah. Because you you can you can accept

51:00it, but if if not, we can just fall back

51:03or whoever the chair is.

51:08Change.

51:10The record just show the vote of you

51:12show the vote of everybody when you do

51:14the thing.

51:14I do. Yes. But you guys um talked about

51:17it maybe a few meetings ago. You were

51:19discussing it, so I just highlighted it

51:21just to bring it up in conversation,

51:27but I do always um show everyone's vote.

51:31Um on the voting part, I think I think

51:35that should be a concurring vote of four

51:38sitting board members should be required

51:40to grant special um

51:46I think there should be a reference to

51:47the statute in that. So I think it's for

51:51us to require four. If they change the

51:53statute then why would we keep four? You

51:56know what I mean?

51:57Okay.

51:59The statute says that we have to have a

52:00four-fifths vote for five members.

52:04So just eliminate the four votes and

52:07just take the current vote pursuant to

52:09Mass General law chapter 48 or something

52:11like that.

52:13That way if the statute chang

52:14change it again, we don't have to change

52:15this.

52:16We don't have to change it.

52:30draft decision of the board.

52:41The text of the decision of the board

52:43shall be considered. So

52:47during the board's a sitting member of

52:49the board will generate a draft.

52:54Isn't that what we typically

52:57doing?

52:59Yeah.

53:07So, it doesn't have to be a a member of

53:10the board or city member. It just has to

53:12be somebody.

53:16Well, no. I was just

53:18I don't think we need to put that in

53:19there. What do you think? And if you

53:20guys recall at our last meeting when we

53:23did 1.3 for the quorum,

53:26yeah,

53:26we took out the verbiage

53:29on sitting board.

53:33So we still have that language

53:36even though we took it out.

53:37Correct.

53:39Consistent.

53:40Yeah, I think you're right.

53:41With the um verbiage that we're going to

53:44use.

53:44I don't think we we should have that

53:46thing in there. I don't think we we've

53:48never done that.

53:50Um what we could do we have something in

53:52here.

53:57So just something for us to note as we

53:59continue to review the document we can

54:02make those edits as well.

54:06So if we took that out we can remove it

54:09completely.

54:09Yeah. The board's written decision state

54:11the specific findings of fact and

54:13reasons for a decision based on the text

54:16of the decision of the board shall be

54:17considered discussed and voted on.

54:19So we're just talking out the first

54:21sentence. We just take out the entire

54:23because we don't need that. We're not

54:24because no sitting member is going to

54:26write the decision. Dale usually writes

54:27the decisions. Mhm.

54:29Um, one of the things that we do do

54:31though is that on bigger and more

54:34complex appeals

54:37and uh petitions in the past

54:41uh we have

54:44um allowed

54:47the parties to draft proposed findings

54:50of fact and we can accept

54:52the lawyers do it

54:53right. So when there's sometimes we have

54:54lawyers on multiple sides and we'll say

54:57draft proposed findings of fact and then

55:00they'll we can just we just take and

55:02accept the ones that we want and discard

55:05the ones that we don't want.

55:07The lawyers look at each others and then

55:09we agree upon it.

55:10Yeah.

55:11Accept it.

55:13So we could put in there something like

55:15the board may

55:19except Do we have to put anything in

55:21there? I don't think we have to. I think

55:23that's

55:23No, you don't think we have to that

55:25ability to just do it.

55:28Well, what was our Didn't we have a

55:31whole section for

55:31Yeah, we pulled a lot of that stuff out.

55:35Yeah.

55:43We have 31 that talks about findings of

55:47fact.

55:50Correct.

55:59Yeah. I mean, so 311 kind of says that

56:01we could do that,

56:03right?

56:03Yeah. I think that's what we went over

56:05last

56:09so we don't have to add it again

56:12on the written part. We should take out

56:14sit in 3.12. We should take out sitting

56:18each board member. Just keep take the

56:19word sitting out.

56:26Same thing with 313.

56:28Yeah, we're going to take that whole

56:29first sentence out because no member we

56:31don't typically draft that. Gale drafts

56:34them. So or we'll get the findings of

56:37fact and incorporate. the on the bigger

56:40ones, I would sometimes

56:43do a proposed decision based on what

56:45agreed findings of fact and then we

56:47would the next meeting we would agree on

56:49the final decision and then submit it.

56:52We've done that once or twice.

56:56Um,

57:23it's 3.17. that changed.

57:30They extended it. They extended the the

57:32the time limit for a variance greater

57:34than one year in the in July, didn't

57:37they?

57:38I'm asking you.

57:40Me?

57:40Yeah.

57:41Oh, when I I started here, I didn't have

57:43ZVA. I'm like, don't need to learn that

57:45one.

57:49Um I think that that's changed.

57:51It's my belief that it has.

57:53You're right. So, we just want to change

57:54it to reflect whatever the statute is.

57:56Perfect.

57:56Yeah.

57:58And the one time extension has changed,

58:00too. I think that that's changed as

58:03well.

58:04Do you sign the decisions?

58:06Yeah.

58:09Know that.

58:09Yeah.

58:11Do you have a special pen?

58:12Yeah, I do.

58:13It's not auto pen.

58:15It's an auto pen. I got a Joe Biden auto

58:17pen right in the middle of me.

58:21Um

58:23it is two years now.

58:24It is two. Yeah.

58:26So right must be exercised

58:42two or three times.

58:45Really?

58:46We might have.

58:46I think so. I'm pretty sure.

58:49That's crazy.

58:59I don't think I have any other changes

59:01on this.

59:04Most of it has to do with Did you have

59:07any other changes?

59:09I submitted a lot last time. Um,

59:12I just I just found one.

59:14Yeah.

59:15Um, yeah. So if we just take out sitting

59:18out of the entire document, we don't

59:19have to go through and find the two

59:21code. No, you can do that. 118.

59:23Yeah.

59:24Um 319 is the next section that we had

59:27to deliberate the findings which is the

59:31reconsideration piece.

59:34If we just want to take another look at

59:35that prior it through

59:38prior to the written decision any

59:40sitting member Yeah. You take any member

59:42may request that the chair call a vote

59:45to reconsider the

59:48I don't have a problem with that. We've

59:50never done that since I've been here.

59:55We don't I don't think we meet

59:57enough often enough that we we would

1:00:01have we would make a decision and then

1:00:05have another meeting before

1:00:09because you file it usually with the

1:00:10town clerk within two days, don't you?

1:00:12Yeah.

1:00:13I have two weeks.

1:00:14You have two weeks. Yeah.

1:00:16Remember going in front of Wister takes

1:00:18two weeks.

1:00:18What if we keep this here and somebody

1:00:21calls for a new vote? We could blow past

1:00:24one of our dates, right?

1:00:26No, we've made the decision. So, I think

1:00:28we may

1:00:29What if it gets reopened

1:00:32after we've made a decision?

1:00:33I don't know the answer to that.

1:00:35Go to the next next meeting that we're

1:00:37in session.

1:00:38That's my point. So if we do that then

1:00:41technically speaking is if we made a

1:00:42vote and made a decision and it hasn't

1:00:45been filed with the town clerk and we

1:00:48could advertise another meeting within

1:00:50the twoe period and vote to reopen it

1:00:55we we could logistically do that. it

1:00:58would be pretty tight,

1:01:00right? Particularly if they're at the

1:01:02end of when the actual

1:01:03if that if they're at the statutory end

1:01:06of their timeline, I I don't know

1:01:09whether or not that impacts that or not

1:01:11because it says you need to make you

1:01:13need to open the hearing and make a

1:01:14decision by a certain date. So, if we

1:01:16were to reconsider the decision, I don't

1:01:18I have no idea whether or not

1:01:21Yeah,

1:01:22it's the first decision that goes to the

1:01:23statute or it's the second one if we

1:01:25would decide to reopen it. It's you've

1:01:28it's never happened.

1:01:29I've never done it. I mean, I'm sure

1:01:30it's

1:01:31there. So, the only reason it would come

1:01:33up is if

1:01:34No one's ever done it while we've been

1:01:36on the while I've been on the board.

1:01:38Yeah.

1:01:39I was putting my worst case scenario cap

1:01:40on and some board member didn't like the

1:01:42decision.

1:01:43Oh, he's worried you're going to retire

1:01:45and it's going to be

1:01:49That's what it is.

1:01:50You see how easily I

1:01:53see I caught that. You can't you could

1:01:56we get through of that.

1:02:00It's okay

1:02:02enough.

1:02:02I don't I don't see

1:02:03I don't see I think we should just leave

1:02:04it in there. I don't say we didn't need

1:02:06to do it in that.

1:02:06No.

1:02:07And then we already we did the

1:02:08withdrawal that can withdraw by notice

1:02:10from the applicant in writing. Any

1:02:12application may be withdrawn without

1:02:14present by notice from the applic.

1:02:16Can I correct that to include the form

1:02:19that you guys approved today?

1:02:21Yes.

1:02:21Thank you. Was it withdrawals that we

1:02:24were getting people assigned or was

1:02:25there extension? I can't remember what

1:02:26we're doing them right.

1:02:28Yeah.

1:02:29Okay. So, we should

1:02:30Yeah.

1:02:30But now we've got a form.

1:02:32And I'll work on the extension.

1:02:37Couldn't tell if I think that's correct.

1:02:40I thought it said withdrawal.

1:02:42So before before publication,

1:02:45they can withdraw themselves. after we

1:02:48publish and the meeting is set then they

1:02:50have to request withdrawal from us and

1:02:52we have to vote

1:02:54and if they're no show then

1:02:56then we can make a decision we can't

1:02:57withdraw them

1:02:58rightision

1:03:00we have to make a decision within the

1:03:02time frame set so some we've we've had

1:03:05that before um

1:03:06I was worried he might not show up

1:03:08I think that was

1:03:10that was five it was uh what's his name

1:03:12on 508 something about the post office

1:03:15parking hot

1:03:17and everyone was like, "We're making a

1:03:19decision on that." I'm like, "Okay."

1:03:20Oh, yeah.

1:03:21Yeah.

1:03:24With

1:03:26it accessories,

1:03:27something like that.

1:03:29Yeah.

1:03:30Yeah.

1:03:32Uh

1:03:3341,

1:03:35the last sentence that says incomplete

1:03:37applications not accompanying by

1:03:39documents as required within the general

1:03:41filing requirements is may be denied by

1:03:45the board.

1:03:47Yeah.

1:03:48So

1:03:50do we have

1:03:52a process for that?

1:03:53Yes. So right now the full application

1:03:57has to be submitted to the town clerk. I

1:04:00think the the town clerk does an initial

1:04:01review, don't they? Or

1:04:02no.

1:04:03So they did the day submitted. If the

1:04:06implic she you'll review it. If the if

1:04:09it's incomplete, then it will get

1:04:11rejected and back out. So uh if it's an

1:04:13incomplete application, and we've had

1:04:15that happen a couple of times before.

1:04:17The reason why I ask is because it

1:04:19states that the denial is by the board

1:04:22and not by the clerk or by day. So if we

1:04:27have to change that particular language

1:04:29because it says the board reaches us and

1:04:31so we are the last here to actually

1:04:34receive.

1:04:34So we should just take the board

1:04:36information. So that's why I brought it

1:04:38up that we will need a revision to that.

1:04:40Yeah. So we just removed by the board

1:04:43just but may be denied.

1:04:47That's a good catch.

1:04:48Yeah, it is.

1:04:51And uh

1:04:52well what so what happened was on that

1:04:55is that the

1:04:58our recording person at the time

1:05:03someone was filing applications and I

1:05:05think they were like you know because

1:05:06they were only here on so before Dale

1:05:09the the person in her place before that

1:05:11was only here on Tuesdays and that was

1:05:13the only day of the week that she was

1:05:15here

1:05:15and the person before that was like that

1:05:17too. So we had someone coming in on like

1:05:20a Wednesday or Thursday. They would like

1:05:22slip it in the thing and say, "Oh, I you

1:05:25know, I dropped it off on Thursday." So

1:05:27now that's the day it starts. And there

1:05:29was this big thing. So now it goes to

1:05:30the town clerk and has to get stamped.

1:05:33So on the on the application, if there's

1:05:37something wrong or something not in it

1:05:39correctly,

1:05:40he gets rejected.

1:05:41It gets rejected. The clock doesn't

1:05:44stop.

1:05:44Yeah. It doesn't get denied.

1:05:47Doesn't get Right.

1:05:49Until it's complete. Yeah.

1:05:50Yeah.

1:05:51Can't make one application without it.

1:05:53It can't be denial.

1:05:54In 20 years, we've had

1:05:56we can deny

1:05:58one 40b application.

1:06:01So, so this board is not only has the

1:06:05authority for

1:06:08um

1:06:08I didn't know

1:06:09we have we have the authority for

1:06:12appeals, special permits, variances and

1:06:15affordable housing under chapter 40B

1:06:17that that goes doesn't go to the

1:06:19planning board comes to us. But we've

1:06:22had one full application in the 20 years

1:06:24we've been here and one amendment. Both

1:06:26of those times this board and worked

1:06:29very closely with the planning board

1:06:31because we don't have the ability to do

1:06:33peer review or anything like that. So,

1:06:34we would probably go to the planning

1:06:36board and ask for their assistance uh

1:06:38for some of those things.

1:06:42Why did we even get in the middle? Why

1:06:43doesn't it go to the planning?

1:06:44It's just the way the statute's written.

1:06:50We they had one that was they were

1:06:52talking about in a previous town

1:06:54administrator said, "Oh, well, we could

1:06:57probably just do it through the Sugman's

1:06:58office as a friendly thing." I was like,

1:07:01I it never came to fruition, so it's

1:07:03never a big deal, but I'm like, "Yeah, I

1:07:05don't have the authority to do that."

1:07:06Friendly.

1:07:07Yeah.

1:07:10Let's go call it.

1:07:11Um,

1:07:15one one thing going back to that one

1:07:18that we were just on.

1:07:19Yeah.

1:07:19If we're pulling by the board

1:07:24requirements may be denied

1:07:27within the front

1:07:32may be denied just period. Yeah.

1:07:36So that's not talking about the whole

1:07:39application itself just the submitt.

1:07:42What do you mean?

1:07:44So basically an application come in. Oh

1:07:46this

1:07:48This isn't filled out, right?

1:07:50Yeah.

1:07:50Okay. You're getting denied.

1:07:53So, off of denial, how long do you have

1:07:56before you can reapply?

1:07:57The next day,

1:07:58you can just go off next day.

1:08:00Well, you want to change it to

1:08:02So, it's not like

1:08:03all the denying.

1:08:04We're not denying the application. We're

1:08:06just denying the the the submission.

1:08:08That's all I That's all I want to

1:08:09clarify.

1:08:10So, should we put the submission be

1:08:12denied?

1:08:12Well, it says applications.

1:08:14So, it's not

1:08:16Okay. Yeah. As long as

1:08:17incomplete application is not

1:08:18accompanied by all documents required in

1:08:20the general filing committees.

1:08:24Should I put rejected?

1:08:26Yeah, put rejected. Change it to

1:08:27rejected.

1:08:28Just so we don't want any confusion in

1:08:31that part. Oh, you were denied on that.

1:08:33You know,

1:08:34are we good otherwise? What do you

1:08:36think?

1:08:37You feel good?

1:08:38Feel good.

1:08:40We can make the changes and I'll bring

1:08:42the

1:08:43and we'll just vote on it next time.

1:08:44Yes. Anything else that we need to do

1:08:46tonight?

1:08:47Yes, you did skip number five.

1:08:49Oh, no. What's

1:08:51Yeah.

1:08:52Oh, recommendations.

1:08:53Yes, we

1:08:54But Mary Beth isn't with us tonight.

1:08:57Kazinski.

1:08:58Uh oh, someone new for the board.

1:09:02Yeah. So, so this is Mary Beth Kazinski.

1:09:05She lives on Masonic Home Road. She's

1:09:07applying to the our board. Do we How

1:09:10many we have? Two.

1:09:11Six. So, we have enough room for one

1:09:13more, which I think um she's a mental

1:09:17health counselor. She's happy to provide

1:09:20her resume and request. She's got a

1:09:21master's degree. I think we should make

1:09:24a minimum requirement at least a PhD by

1:09:27everyone going forward.

1:09:29She have after meeting sessions.

1:09:31Yeah.

1:09:34Um yeah, I'm fine with that. Do you want

1:09:36me to make a vote on this? Does anyone

1:09:38want to

1:09:39recommend them

1:09:39to recommend the seleman nominate Mary

1:09:42Beth Kazinski? Does anyone want to make

1:09:45a make a motion? You're going to make

1:09:46the motion

1:09:47make a motion

1:09:48to uh to nom to recommend Mary Beth

1:09:52Kazinski.

1:09:53Second

1:09:53as an alternate member of the board.

1:09:56There's a second by Rob. All in favor

1:09:57say I.

1:09:58I.

1:09:59Motion carries.

1:10:02All right. Any other things we need? Is

1:10:04there a motion to

1:10:07end the meeting?

1:10:08Motion to adjurnn.

1:10:09Is there second on the motion? All in

1:10:11favor say I. I.