2026-09-22 - Select Board Meeting

0:03Okay, we'd like to call the meeting to

0:05order. Welcome to the Charleton Select

0:08Board meeting, September 22nd,

0:09[clears throat] 2026, 6:30 p.m. Town

0:12Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main Street,

0:15Charlton, Mass. This meeting is being

0:17recorded and broadcast live by Charlton

0:19Cable Access TV on Spectrum TV, channel

0:23191, and recording available on the

0:25YouTube channel for Charlton TV. Any

0:28member of the public who wishes to

0:30record this meeting must first notify

0:33the chair. If we could stand for the

0:36pledge of allegiance, please.

0:41I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

0:44United States of America and to the

0:46republic for which it stands, one nation

0:49under God, indivisible, with liberty and

0:53justice for all.

0:57>> [snorts]

0:58>> And Mike, do we have announcements, sir?

1:01>> Yes. Announcements for the select board

1:03meeting September 22nd, 2026.

1:06Dudley Charlton Regional School District

1:08Special Education, September 29th, 2026

1:11from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the

1:13Heritage School. Sample ballot on the

1:16town's clerk town clerk's page. yard

1:19waste drop off October 17th, 24th, and

1:2231st, as well as November 7th, and 14th

1:26from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the DPW

1:28located at 100 Flint Road here in

1:31Charlton.

1:32Special town meeting Monday, October

1:3519th, 2026 at 7 p.m. located at the

1:38Charlton Middle School. We have state

1:40election November 3rd, 2026. Early

1:43voting begins October 17th through

1:46October 29th, 2026.

1:49For more information, see the town

1:51clerk's page for details. The library is

1:53also having a spice drive for the

1:55Chip-in Food Pantry from Monday,

1:57September 14th through Saturday, October

2:0017th.

2:02They are accepting donations of new,

2:04unopened, unexpired spices for chipin to

2:08distribute with their monthly food

2:09pickups. You may drop off spices at

2:12either circulation desk.

2:14We have been celebrating mushrooms all

2:16month long. This Thursday, September

2:1824th, from 6:00 to 7:30 at Dexter Hall,

2:21it'll be all about mushrooms. Micologist

2:24Jonathan Crayons will be discussing the

2:27basic of fungal life and insights on

2:30foraging for food and special emphasis

2:32on common mushrooms that are likely to

2:35be found in our area. At the senior

2:38center, they have a blood pressure

2:39clinic from September 24th from 8:30

2:42a.m. to 10:30 a.m. There's also a

2:44monthly grief support on September 29th

2:47at 3:30 p.m. Interdimensional by Ronnie

2:51Leblanc from the Discovery and Travel

2:53Channels is October 5th at 10:30 a.m.

2:58>> Okay, thank you, Mike. And moving on to

3:01open form. Is there anyone here for open

3:03form?

3:06Please come up and

3:07>> say your name. Hello.

3:11>> My name is

3:13>> and I'm the chair of the senior

3:14community center feasibility committee.

3:17Um I just had a few things I wanted to

3:19clarify since the last uh select board

3:21meeting. Um the proposed article for

3:24tonight's discussion says senior center

3:27but I want to clarify that it is a

3:29senior community center. uh feasibility

3:31committee has always been called senior

3:33senior community feasibility without

3:36plans including community center space.

3:38Um and we've also gotten feedback from

3:41many residents expressing an interest in

3:42a community center which I think I had

3:44also mentioned the last time. Um I also

3:47want to clarify that the proposed

3:49article is not a feasibility study. It's

3:51for the engineering design phase. Um an

3:54an elaborate topographical analysis was

3:57done on the Masonic home road property

3:59for the public safety building and a

4:01Lero Hill feasibility study was a

4:03comparison of three options. The

4:05furniture store property, the town hall

4:08expansion and renovation and a new

4:10build. So this Masonic home choice would

4:13be using the new build from that

4:14proposal. Um, I want to reiterate that

4:17there are 3,960

4:19seniors out of a total population of

4:2113,685

4:23in town today, which is expected to grow

4:26to 5,000 in the next 5 years. And our

4:29data indicates that 1194 individuals use

4:33the center in some form today. And

4:36finally, I want to say the committee has

4:38had a little more time to research the

4:39Masonic home property. Um, and we

4:42support either the Masonic or the

4:44Dresser Hill because our goal is the

4:46same as it has always been to support

4:48our seniors and the community at large

4:50with the best possible solution. So,

4:53>> thank you.

4:54>> Thank you.

4:59>> I'll take the seat.

5:01>> Yeah. Yeah.

5:03>> My name is Bruce Mannon, five Pine Lane.

5:06Um, I'm also here asking for support for

5:08the senior community center. Um, we are

5:12really ready to go. We have web pages

5:14set up. Uh, I'm sorry, Facebook page set

5:16up. Um, we have

5:20t-shirts all set to go. We've got signs.

5:22We're ready to go. So, I'm hoping that

5:25we are able to leave here tonight and

5:27distribute that stuff right out front.

5:30>> I think we're probably going to address

5:31most of that when we get down to that on

5:33the on the item on the agenda, but

5:35Anyone

5:38else for open forum?

5:40>> Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask, do

5:41you want us to wait to speak?

5:44>> You were on the agenda. So, we just

5:47>> Yep.

5:50>> Anyone else here for open forum?

5:53Hearing one? Seeing none.

5:56>> Oh,

5:59>> good evening. Um, my name is Rebecca

6:01Cousins. I live at 107 Daniels Road. I'm

6:05here to um bring to the selectman's

6:08attention some of the concerns of the

6:13citizens of Charleton about the

6:15situation with the fire chief.

6:18Um I can tell you as an attorney

6:22I have concerns about

6:25someone being left in his position while

6:29there is an ongoing investigation.

6:32I think, you know, I'm going to have to

6:33um

6:35the board has a policy. The town has a

6:37policy and you being inherent, you would

6:39understand that that we don't we don't

6:41discuss personnel matters

6:44in open form.

6:45>> So this is

6:47>> certainly not an open form. And if we do

6:48discuss personnel matters, the board

6:51discusses them.

6:52>> Okay.

6:52>> And in an in an executive session, okay,

6:54at a posted meeting.

6:56>> So does the board want to know how the

6:58citizens feel or do you not want to

6:59know? We just not in open form talking

7:02about a personnel matter. We're we're

7:04aware of the situation.

7:06>> I I don't think it's just a personnel

7:08situation.

7:09>> It's it's a policy. It's it's it's it's

7:12beyond a policy. Actually, it's mass

7:15general law that we just don't discuss

7:17personnel matters in open.

7:19>> I'm telling you as a citizen what I

7:21know. You can do what you with it what

7:24you will. I'm not telling you what to

7:25do. I'm just telling you that

7:27>> and I'm just explaining the policy and

7:30the rules. I can't be

7:32>> I would like to be able to say what I

7:34have heard and know and what I

7:36personally feel about the decision of

7:38the board. If you would prefer I just

7:41put that in writing then I will be happy

7:43to.

7:43>> There has not been a decision on the

7:45board of the board though. Actually,

7:46we're we're we're starting to get into

7:48the weaves of this discussion where we

7:49don't discuss personnel matters. I can't

7:52make that any more clear.

7:53>> Okay. Well, I'm just going to tell you

7:54and I want to be on record saying this

7:56now that I feel the town is being put at

8:00risk for lawsuits. So, if you want to

8:02consider that just I'm going to have to

8:05ask it's a personel matter. I

8:07>> Please

8:08>> noted.

8:08>> Thank you.

8:11>> Anyone else for open form with a with a

8:14topic

8:16other than the last one?

8:20Moving on.

8:23Approval of the minutes of the board's

8:25meeting on September 8th.

8:28>> Motion to approve the minutes as

8:30written.

8:31>> Second.

8:32>> All in favor?

8:34>> I I

8:38appointments and resations.

8:40[clears throat] Andrew.

8:41>> All right. We received a notice from Liz

8:43France that she needs to resign from the

8:44master plan steering committee due to

8:46family obligations. The board should

8:48accept her resignation and a letter

8:50thanking her for her her service to the

8:52town is in your sign folder.

8:59>> Okay. Motion to

9:02accept.

9:03>> I move to accept the letter with regret.

9:07>> Second.

9:08>> All in favor?

9:09>> I.

9:12>> And we are a little early for our 6:45.

9:17I'll take the uh first few off the

9:19action items list.

9:21>> Yeah.

9:23>> All right. Uh the first action item is

9:25pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road

9:27bid award. Bids were open and read for

9:30pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road

9:32on September 2nd, 2026 at 2:00 p.m.

9:36After review of the bid, DPW

9:38Superintendent Peele is recommending the

9:39board award the bid to Mass Broken Stone

9:42Co. in the amount of $367,259.

9:47I'd recommend the board award the bid as

9:50requested.

9:52>> I would move to uh award the bid as

9:54requested.

9:55>> Second.

9:58>> All in favor?

9:58>> I

9:59>> I

9:59>> I. It's unanimous.

10:03>> Right. The next is a special alcoholic

10:05beverage license for the Overlook Fall

10:08Festival. attaches an application for a

10:11special alcoholic beverage license for

10:12wine and malt beverages from Daniel

10:15Drager of for the Overlook Fall Festival

10:18to be held Saturday, October 3rd, 2026

10:22from 11:00 a.m. to 4 p.m. at 88 Masonic

10:24Road. The application was forwarded to

10:27the police chief, building commissioner,

10:28and fire department for review, which

10:30all have approved. Per the board's

10:33policy, the dates on the license should

10:35include the day before the event to

10:37allow the alcohol to be delivered, the

10:38day of the event, and the day the day

10:42after the event to allow any alcohol

10:44left over to be picked up.

10:47I move to approve the special alcoholic

10:49beverage license as submitted by Daniel

10:51Darger for wine and malt u beverages to

10:54be used for the overlook festival with

10:57the dates on the license to be October

10:592nd 2006 to October 4th 2026.

11:02>> Second

11:05have a motion and a second. All in

11:06favor?

11:07>> I unanimous.

11:10>> Right. Next we have the Knights of

11:12Columbus request for a Tootsie Roll

11:13drive. The Knights of Columbus, Charlton

11:15Council 11379 is seeking to conduct a

11:19Tootsie Roll drive to benefit children

11:21with special needs and disabilities.

11:23They would like to set up a voluntary

11:24toll road on Saturday, October 10th,

11:272026 from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the corner

11:30of Main Street and Masonic Road. This

11:32request has been forwarded and approved

11:34by the by police chief Dow contingent

11:36upon the following safety precautions.

11:39All volunteers must wear bright colored

11:41vests, yellow, orange, green, or red,

11:44while soliciting donations. Orange

11:47traffic cones must be set out on Main

11:48Street and Sonic Road for a distance not

11:50less than 50 ft on each respective way

11:53prior to reaching the toll station. A

11:56minimum of five traffic cones on each

11:57roadway should be put in place at

11:59distance no greater than 10 ft apart.

12:01and signs warning voluntary toll road

12:03ahead must be erected on both Masonic

12:05Home Road and Main Street now less than

12:0775 ft from the toll collection area.

12:10Should the board approve this [snorts]

12:11request, I'd ask you consider including

12:12Chief Dow's recommendation into the

12:14motion.

12:16>> Do I have a motion?

12:18>> I move to approve as written.

12:20>> Second.

12:22>> All in favor? I

12:24>> I unanimous.

12:27[snorts]

12:31>> Sure. Um opioid settlement funds grant

12:35application. At the board's May 25th,

12:372026 meeting, Jim FA came before the

12:39board requesting fund funding from the

12:41opioid settlement fund in support of the

12:44mission of his nonprofit organization,

12:46Adam's Parachute. There's currently

12:4810,000 in uncommitted settlement funding

12:51under this uh under the opioid

12:53settlement. The board approved a grant

12:55application with a cap of $2,500 to

12:57those that apply if they fit within the

13:00guidelines of the use of the funds. We

13:03have [clears throat] received one

13:04application from Mr. FA for the minim

13:07maximum amount of $2,500 to be used for

13:09his nonprofit. I have refused the

13:12application and it supports the purpose

13:13of the funds to be used. I recommend the

13:15board approve the request.

13:18Do I have a motion to approve?

13:20>> So moved. Second.

13:22>> All in favor?

13:23>> I thank you for your work on that.

13:25>> No problem.

13:32>> All right. U

13:34before we get to our 4 645

13:38um HCA amendment with Troton Investments

13:41LLC pedals cannabis. The Cannabis

13:44Control Commission issued a host

13:45community notice dated August 21st, 2026

13:49determining that section 5810 of the HCA

13:53with Charlton Investments LLC pedals

13:55canvas is non-compliant under 935 CMR

13:58500.1804A

14:02and CMR 501

14:0558A

14:06because it requires payment of a

14:08community impact fee prior to the end of

14:10the current fiscal year or within 90

14:12days of the of the commission's CIF

14:15certification. In order to cure this,

14:17Charlton Investments LLC has amended or

14:20has proposed an amendment to section 5

14:22A10 of this agreement to delete in its

14:25entirety and replace with the following.

14:28The company shall have the right to

14:29dispute any community impact fee

14:31itemized in municipalities invoice for

14:34the licensed year. Companies shall

14:36annually pay any undisputed CIF no later

14:39than the date of the current current

14:41fiscal year or within 90 days of the

14:42date of the commission CF certification.

14:44Whatever is later

14:46is reviewed this amendment and would

14:48recommend the board approve.

14:51>> Do I have a motion? The motion to

14:53approve as written.

14:55>> Second.

14:56>> All in favor?

15:04We are at 6:44. I have a feeling the f

15:07camera would probably last a little

15:10longer than one minute.

15:12>> All right.

15:12>> You might want to

15:14>> we'll start the 6:45.

15:16>> All right. 6:45 meeting with finance

15:18committee finalized special town meeting

15:20warrant and motions and select board to

15:22close the special town meeting warrant.

15:25site board is scheduled to review and

15:27finalize the special time meeting

15:28warrant and motions with finance

15:29committee. The board will also need to

15:31close the warrant so our office can post

15:32it with the town clerk by October 1st.

15:35Uh just an outline of each article that

15:38was received. So uh article one

15:40appropriation of funds uh for unpaid

15:43bills of a prior fiscal year. Article

15:46two interdep departmental transfers and

15:48appropriations for FY27 budget. Article

15:51three, amendments to the FY2027 budget.

15:54Article four, miscellaneous capital

15:56items and related contracts. Article

15:58five, we have in here right now, new

16:00senior center design phase. I'll leave

16:02it up to the board if you want to make

16:04any amendments to that. Um, article

16:06seven, amend general laws, general

16:09bylaws, chapter 110, animal control.

16:11Article eight, amend general bylaws

16:13chapter 155, licenses and permits.

16:16Article 9, except Mass General Law,

16:18Chapter 138, Section 33B, sales of

16:20alcoholic beverage licenses by on

16:22premise licenses on Sundays and legal

16:24holidays with sales between 10:00 a.m.

16:26and 12 noon. Article 10, acceptance of

16:30Ashley Road and Amber Road as public

16:32ways. Art and then articles 11 through

16:3614 are zoning amendments to be

16:38recommended by the planning board. And

16:40article 15 is the citizens petition um

16:43non-binding related to automated license

16:46plate reader surveillance. So you're to

16:49go through each one of these with the

16:51finance committee this evening and

16:52provide your recommendation after

16:54closing the

16:55>> after closing. So I would I would um

16:58accept a motion to close the warrant.

17:03>> Do we close it before? You want to close

17:06the warrant so no new articles can come

17:09in. You can now make changes to the

17:11warrant

17:12>> warrant to remove or approve the mask.

17:14Okay. So I move to close the warrant as

17:17written.

17:17>> Second.

17:18>> All in favor?

17:19>> I

17:20>> I the warrant is closed.

17:26>> How do we want to handle the

17:27appropriation of funds to Well, actually

17:30the finance committee has to open their

17:31meeting.

17:32>> Yes.

17:34So I will call a meeting to uh the

17:37finance committee to order at 6:45

17:41and we have quum.

17:43>> Okay. So we

17:46>> welcome

17:47>> welcome [laughter]

17:48to good to see you.

17:51>> All right. So article one is

17:53appropriation of funds for bill for

17:55funds for unpaid bills of a prior fiscal

17:57year. We had three I'm sorry if we had

18:00four. Three of them were water sewer

18:02maintenance uh bills to Violia. We had

18:04one um municipal offices and expense

18:07equipment for Worcester elevator.

18:14>> So if we get started I will entertain a

18:17motion that the finance committee

18:19support article one as presented.

18:22>> I'll make a motion.

18:22>> I have a motion. Second.

18:24>> I have a second. Any discussion?

18:27Ray. All in favor say yes.

18:30>> Yes.

18:31>> Unanimous.

18:32>> Roll call vote because of Zoom or

18:34>> Yeah.

18:35>> Ray. Yes or no?

18:37>> Yes. Ray. Yeah. Thank you.

18:41And I would accept a motion from the

18:43board to accept article one to support

18:47article one.

18:49>> I move to support article one as

18:50written.

18:51>> Second.

18:52>> All in favor? I.

18:54>> Unanimous.

18:56All right. Article article two for

18:58interdep departmental transfers and or

19:01appropriations for the FY27 budget. We

19:03propose no changes to the FY27 budget.

19:06So the recommendation is to pass over

19:08this article indefinitely.

19:10>> I'll make a motion that the finance

19:12committee supports article two.

19:14>> Second.

19:15>> All in favor say yes.

19:18>> Yes. Ready? Say yes. Right.

19:21>> Yes.

19:24And I would I would accept a me a motion

19:27from our board for article.

19:30>> I move to um support the article two as

19:33written.

19:35>> Second.

19:36>> All in favor?

19:37>> I

19:38>> I

19:38>> I

19:41article three would be amendments to the

19:42FY2027 budget. Um again, we are

19:45proposing no additional changes to the

19:47FY27 [snorts]

19:49budget uh for taxation increases.

19:54So pass over pass over the article

19:56indefinitely. Sorry.

19:57>> Okay. You're going to pass over. So do

19:59we really need to take a vote of

20:00support?

20:02>> Recommend. You recommended.

20:03>> Recommend that we pass over.

20:05>> All right. I'll entertain a motion that

20:06we pass over article three.

20:12>> Second.

20:14>> All those in favor say I. Say yes. Ray.

20:17>> Yes.

20:18>> Unanimous.

20:19>> Now this was sponsored by the finance

20:21comm. Do we need to take a vote on that

20:23as well?

20:23>> Yes,

20:24>> we do. Okay.

20:26>> I would accept a motion

20:28>> to pass over on article

20:30>> three.

20:32>> I'll make that motion to pass over in

20:33article three.

20:34>> Second.

20:35>> All in favor?

20:36>> I.

20:38>> All right. Article four being

20:40miscellaneous capital items and related

20:41contracts. We break this into uh four

20:44separate motions. Uh motion one [snorts]

20:47is the general government side. So, it

20:50is $50,000 for grant match and planning

20:53funds for the select board, $15,000 for

20:56a hydraulic hydraulic and hydronic

20:59analysis of South Charleton reservoir

21:01from the conservation commission,

21:03$50,000 for municipal building

21:05improvements,

21:07um $80,000 for technology replacements

21:09and improvements, and $40,000 to the

21:12library for floor carpeting replacement.

21:14That would be motion one.

21:17Do we have a recommendation of the

21:19finance committee?

21:21>> Finance committee. I'll entertain a

21:23motion. We support article 4 as written.

21:26>> We make a motion. Finance committee

21:28supports article 4 motion one.

21:30>> Second.

21:31>> I have a second. Any discussion?

21:34There being none. All those in favor say

21:36yes.

21:36>> Yes.

21:36>> Ray.

21:37>> Yes.

21:38>> Unanimous.

21:39>> Okay. And select board on the same

21:43motion on the article. I move to support

21:46motion one article 4 as written.

21:50>> Second

21:51motion in a second. All in favor?

21:54>> I

21:56motion.

21:57>> Motion two is police items. Uh the only

22:00item for this year are our annual

22:02cruiser replacements in the amount of

22:04$275,000.

22:08I'll entertain a motion that finance

22:11committee recommends motion two of

22:15article 4. I guess we got to get that

22:16specific.

22:18>> I motion.

22:18>> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

22:21discussion?

22:22There being none, all those in favor say

22:24yes.

22:25>> Yes.

22:26>> Yes. It's unanimous.

22:30>> Okay. And the board of selectment on

22:32motion two of article four.

22:36I move to support article 4, motion two

22:38as written.

22:39>> Second.

22:40>> All in favor?

22:42>> I

22:44motion three.

22:45>> Yep. Motion three are items related to

22:47the fire department. Uh three items on

22:50the list for this year. An F350 pickup

22:52truck support vehicle in the amount of

22:54110,000.

22:56uh $100,000 for the refurbishment of

22:58Forestry 1 and 61,000 from ambulance

23:03receipts reserved from appropriation for

23:05the purchase of a life pack for the EMS

23:07car.

23:12>> I'll make a motion that the finance

23:13committee supports motion three, article

23:164.

23:17>> Second.

23:17>> Have a motion and a second. Any

23:19discussion? There being none, all those

23:22in favor say yes.

23:24>> Yes.

23:24>> Yes. Ready?

23:25>> Yes.

23:26>> Yes.

23:27>> Unanimous.

23:30>> Okay. And for the select board on

23:32article four, motion three.

23:36>> Make a motion that we support.

23:38>> Second.

23:40>> All in favor?

23:41>> I.

23:43>> Right. The last one out of this was

23:44motion four. These are items related to

23:46um DPW, highway, cemetery, and sewer. So

23:52um we have

23:55$140,000 to the highway division for an

23:58F350 utility bucket lift pickup.

24:01$300,000 for an excav excavator with a

24:05rotary mower for the highway division.

24:08$50,000 for a replacement wood chipper

24:11for the highway division. $24,000

24:14for cemetery road paving for the

24:16cemetery division. $8,000 for K Cabota

24:20accessories for the DPWs uh or for the

24:23cemetery division and $25,000 for office

24:27renovations from the sewer retained

24:30earnings for the sewer division.

24:34>> Entertain a motion that the finance

24:35committee support motion four of article

24:384.

24:39>> Motion.

24:39>> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

24:42discussion? There being none, all those

24:44in favor say yes.

24:45>> Yes.

24:46>> Ray. Yes,

24:48>> unanimous.

24:50>> Okay. And for the select board, we have

24:52a motion on article motion four on

24:54article four.

24:56>> I move to support article four option um

25:00motion four as written.

25:03>> Second.

25:05>> All in favor?

25:06>> I

25:10article five tried to take direction of

25:11the board as to the appropriate way to

25:15craft the wording for this one. So

25:16please tell me if you want to make any

25:18changes before posting. But

25:20>> no, sorry.

25:22>> Sorry. Art five as listed right now.

25:28>> Is uh new senior center and police

25:30department parking expansion design

25:32phase. Uh essentially this is a motion

25:34to appropriate $500,000 from available

25:37free cash to the stated purpose

25:42>> through the chair. Regarding the name

25:44that was brought up, I would like to

25:45suggest to avoid confusion and to be

25:48consistent that we insert the word

25:51community after

25:53senior. So it would be the new senior

25:56community center design phase. Uh this

25:58is consistent with what the committee

26:00was the select board um appointed many

26:03years ago. Um and it's what the chairman

26:08mentioned earlier today. It would be

26:11their preference to call it. There's

26:13enough confusion out there already.

26:15>> Yeah.

26:15>> So you're suggesting on under article

26:17five under a new senior center just the

26:20verbat

26:21>> senior community

26:22>> senior right here center.

26:24>> That's what that was the name of this

26:25feasibility study that

26:27>> actually wasn't actually wasn't the name

26:29of the original.

26:30>> No.

26:31>> No it was the activity center.

26:34community.

26:35>> It's semantics, but we have an activity

26:36center.

26:37>> But it's so but but it that's what's the

26:39committee was called. But people need to

26:42know and I I do I do want to point out

26:44too this is just to reference the

26:46project. At the end of the day down the

26:48road it may not be called, you know, who

26:51knows what it's going to be called. We

26:52know it's going to be primarily for

26:53seniors, but they they have new names

26:56for our senior centers now. So that's up

26:57to you. Typically, it's up to the

26:59building committee or but this is just

27:02so when we're referencing the project,

27:03it people understand it's senior

27:07community senior center.

27:09>> Yeah. I think it

27:10>> it's housekeeping really.

27:11>> Yeah.

27:12>> I think my only concern and maybe I I

27:15can probably be persuaded on that is is

27:18who has jurisdiction over the use of the

27:21building. If is is it the community or

27:25is it the council on aging that that

27:26says when you can use it or

27:28>> again this is this is just and the chair

27:31can correct me if I'm wrong but this is

27:32just to reference it to get the point

27:34across that there is in the design by

27:37Lero there is a space for the community

27:40much like the library we all know the

27:42library is the library but it has a

27:44space for a community to use off hours

27:47etc and of course we all know down the

27:49road that comes with policy development

27:51but the design um that was paid for by

27:55the citizens of the town as that

27:57community space. So, we just want to

27:59make sure we're being transparent. Um

28:01and it it honestly we need to avoid

28:04confusion because people are confused

28:06enough about

28:06>> I think that's I think that's why I

28:08asked the question.

28:09>> Yeah,

28:10>> it's a housekeeping item. Yeah.

28:15Is

28:18as far as the design of the building,

28:21>> people are going to ask what are you

28:23what do you want to build there? I mean,

28:25when when the chair came up in open

28:29form, she said it was um you still had

28:31multiple options. You were still looking

28:33at

28:36>> not now.

28:52project

28:58>> senior community visibility

28:59>> on Masonic home we're only talking

29:02Masonic home road

29:04>> no I'm asking the question have you guys

29:06has has the committee voted on that

29:09>> yeah it says it right here

29:14>> well and in article five through the

29:15chair it says a new senior center to be

29:18located on Masonic Home Road. So,

29:20>> no one's debating that. It's just what

29:22we're going to reference it to avoid

29:23confusion in the community. That's

29:25>> Well, no, but in her opening in her

29:26opening, she said there were three

29:28options. So, two options.

29:30>> That's what the project,

29:32>> right?

29:33>> And one of them was a new

29:36project

29:38new build.

29:40And and I believe the chair was was just

29:43reminding people that the money was

29:46spent and what it was spent on versus

29:47because people there's you know well

29:49they starting from scratch again.

29:50>> What it was what it was spent on was for

29:55a feasibility study to see if furniture

29:58was suitable for

29:59>> No, actually we have to we actually have

30:02a design of the building at the inside

30:04but the layout

30:05>> it was spent on three options.

30:07>> Yeah. three options actually for through

30:09the chair and I don't know if you want

30:10to just because you can

30:13>> it was it was a comparative analysis of

30:14of retrofitting that building to what a

30:17new a new construction would be

30:21>> different taking yeah new construction

30:24>> so this so this $500,000 that we're

30:26talking about would go towards

30:29that original plan

30:32>> no it's

30:34>> whichever one

30:36>> so we

30:37I I'm I'm more I'm driving down more to

30:39one square footage.

30:41>> Yeah. And I guess my question is so when

30:42are we so we want to push this this

30:44through without knowing

30:48where we going to appropriate that

30:49500,000 either or

30:51>> it says through the chair it says the

30:53article actually states construction of

30:56a new senior center to be located on

30:58Masonic home road right

30:59>> and additional parking for police

31:01departments. So what's the question?

31:03>> So no so this is are we sure on this? So

31:05why would Bringing up two different

31:07options is where I'm confused. So I just

31:09eliminate. So we already eliminating the

31:11other option of the furniture store and

31:13we just going with the option on the

31:15Masonic.

31:16>> Okay. Because that is what I was

31:17confused because we keep bringing the

31:19two options and this and another.

31:20>> People didn't understand what the money

31:22was spent on. Right. So

31:24>> okay, that's what it is. Okay.

31:25>> That's all. That's all.

31:28>> Okay. So then so so then with what

31:29you're saying Karen then we will also

31:31change that verbiage here. the new

31:33senior center police department parking

31:35extension. Right?

31:36>> So I I guess I would make a motion if

31:38the chair is okay with this that we

31:40insert the word that article five should

31:42read new senior and we insert the word

31:45community center and then and police

31:47department parking expansion design

31:49phase. That's that's all that's all

31:51we're looking

31:51>> in both in both places

31:52>> just for the word change.

31:53>> Yeah, that's it.

31:54>> Not not to do with the article.

31:57>> I agree. Yeah, that makes it much

31:59>> Would you like to second that?

32:01>> I second.

32:02>> Okay. All in favor?

32:03>> I

32:04>> I through semantics. [clears throat]

32:07>> Favor.

32:08>> Do you have a square footage in mind?

32:12Because the town meeting is going to ask

32:14that.

32:15>> But that's not that's not important

32:17tonight.

32:18>> What's that?

32:18>> I don't think that's important tonight.

32:21>> Lots of lots of information will be

32:23coming out, but to to the chair of the

32:26finance committee.

32:27>> So, is it my understanding you've

32:28changed the you've added the word?

32:30That's the new amended motion.

32:32>> Okay.

32:33>> Then I will entertain a motion that the

32:37finance committee support article 5 as

32:39amended.

32:43>> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?

32:47There being none, all those in favor say

32:49yes.

32:50>> Ray,

32:51>> yes.

32:52>> Yes.

32:52>> It's unanimous. Okay.

32:56And I would for the chair I would make

32:58the motion that the select board

33:00supports article five as amended

33:09>> just for design phase

33:11>> for for appropriation of that 500,000.

33:14So that was a place the placeholder that

33:16was a holder right that we were holding

33:18that one for the article five.

33:20>> So yeah. So what do we have to think

33:21about if you want to

33:23>> you have an open motion?

33:27>> Can I have a second for dis second for

33:29discussion?

33:30>> Have a second for discussion.

33:32>> I just want to clarify. Second for

33:33discussion.

33:34>> Yeah.

33:34>> So this is that was that's what we're

33:36holding. So now just so we're on the

33:38same page. So if we support this motion,

33:41we supporting the appropriation of of

33:43half a million dollars going

33:45specifically with a name change to the

33:48uh Masonic home. [clears throat]

33:51And it would be for the senior community

33:53center and police department parking

33:55expansion.

33:56>> And that is how it's going to be

33:57advertised and the t-shirts and

33:59everything. It's going to go to both.

34:01>> Well, we can't the t-shirt.

34:02>> I'm just making I'm being I'm being

34:03sarcastic, but you know what I mean.

34:05It's not that you're trying to make it

34:07sound better for us. So, this is going

34:10to be everywhere on the on the on the

34:11website, how you going to promote it and

34:13everything else in in between.

34:15>> I Yeah. Okay.

34:20Yeah. So, let's do a motion. That's

34:23>> So, this is basically picking up where

34:25the other left off. We're not starting

34:26from scratch. And that's what's

34:28important.

34:30>> You're not starting from scratch, but

34:31town meeting is going to ask the

34:33committee how big of a building you

34:35>> Yes. And you have they have and remember

34:37town meeting approved town meeting

34:39approved the $50,000 to get to this

34:42point. And we don't want to stall at

34:44this point because that would be going

34:46against what town meeting wanted us to

34:48do. And now we're going to put it before

34:49the voters of the town to see if they

34:51want to put the bill because they're the

34:53taxpayers. They're the ones that going

34:54to be voting the bill. So I don't see a

34:57problem letting democracy happen, but

34:59they'll have all the answers. I know the

35:01committee's got lots of information

35:02coming out.

35:03>> I I I'm um I'm a little stuck on this

35:06one.

35:07>> Well, by I'm I'm a little stuck on it

35:10only for the We don't know

35:13You still have to have an idea of what

35:15the the total cost of a building would

35:17be. And if we can only use square

35:19footage like that, how big of a building

35:21is someone's going to ask that

35:22>> through the chair that the the design if

35:24you looked at it is there and we did

35:27Andrew did great work projecting the

35:30cost and the time,000 square feet. It's

35:32the Lero project.

35:41because you can take that and move it.

35:44>> Andrew's options, the four options that

35:46he had for numbers.

35:48>> So the so then you're at 850 square

35:51feet.

35:52>> I'll note that this is on the basis of

35:55the design. Obviously by appropriating

35:57funds, you still have to hire a a

35:59owner's project manager and you have to

36:00hire an architect. Once you bring those

36:02on board, you can make you can

36:05essentially direct and work with them to

36:07determine what is the appropriate size

36:09either based off the feasibility or how

36:11much you know the the town potentially

36:14wants to pay for a building like this.

36:16So it may dictate that a smaller

36:19building is what is [snorts] necessary

36:21to pass muster.

36:23>> But we got to put it we got to we got to

36:25put it before the taxpayers to see what

36:28they want to do. What who are we to sit

36:31here and say I guess we could go and say

36:33you're not going to re you can not

36:35recommend it but I mean to me to not

36:38support it doesn't make a lot of sense

36:40because

36:41>> the taxpayers voted at town meeting to

36:43get us to this phase.

36:45>> No no it's like

36:46>> they voted on 50,000

36:48>> correct but not to throw it not to throw

36:50it out the window but to get

36:52>> this is this is to this is a completely

36:54different project.

36:57No, it's not.

36:58>> It's in a different

36:59>> It's the second phase of the of the

37:01first 50,000 miss.

37:03>> That's the way I look at it.

37:05>> This is how things progress.

37:13>> Um yes, sure.

37:15>> Exactly the way the library was.

37:18You had a feasibility study and then you

37:20had a design process. design process was

37:23with the architect to come up with a

37:27design that was appropriate.

37:31And so what you're doing is you're

37:32asking them to move forward to get a

37:35design using 500,000. Is that what I'm

37:39hearing?

37:40>> Right. Okay. And after that, we came

37:43back and asked the town for money based

37:46on the design that was presented.

37:50>> The town agreed. Yeah, I understand

37:53that. But this is But I'm also hearing

37:55the conflict that the design is already

37:57done. You're using the same design that

37:59was done.

38:01>> So it's 11,000 ft is what you're shoot

38:03it. It it you know what it's

38:05>> if we spend 15 minutes here is we could

38:08probably save an hour town meeting

38:10because people are going to have a lot

38:11of questions. What

38:12>> they're going to get answers, Steve.

38:14This is this is democracy. The town has

38:16spent a half a million dollars before on

38:19designs that have never been used.

38:21Actually, we spent 900.

38:22>> That's the town's decision. That's

38:24ultimately, look what happened with the

38:26public safety building. They ultimately

38:27decided not to.

38:28>> But we bring it forward. Yeah. Look at

38:29what happened. You're right. And we have

38:32$900,000 worth of plans sitting on a

38:34self on a shelf collecting dust.

38:37>> So, you're saying you think you know

38:38better than the taxpayers of this town

38:40that you're not going to give them the

38:41opportunity to Oh, you actually This is

38:43just a recommendation. We're rushing

38:45this to the point, why can't we just

38:49>> Well, you know, you could laugh all you

38:51want, but but it wasn't it wasn't the

38:55board that kept going back to Charlton

38:58Furniture for three years. It was the

39:00committee.

39:01>> Just point of order. This is not what we

39:04should be discussing. It should be

39:06>> do we support it because it's on the

39:08warrant now, but do because we closed

39:09it, but do we support make the

39:11recommendation or not? And then we let

39:13the people

39:13>> Okay. We closed it, but this is just a

39:15place. This is just a holder. So, we can

39:17remove it just as easy. This is not the

39:19one. I'm just saying technically

39:20speaking.

39:22>> You think that's the

39:23>> I can All right. Maybe Maybe we thinking

39:29>> to move something forward.

39:32>> No, we're going to either move it or we

39:33don't want to move it. Support it and

39:35move it.

39:36>> Okay.

39:36>> Okay. Karen, you want to do the option?

39:37You do the motion. There's a

39:38>> question. I'm we already I already

39:40>> I just I just thought that the purpose

39:42of tonight's meeting was for this board

39:44to bring forth something to the

39:46community to make a vote on. And so

39:48you're not not necessarily voting as a

39:50individual in this town to say you

39:53support spending $500,000 in this way.

39:56From my perspective, you're voting to

39:58say we are going to bring it to the town

40:00meeting and let the citizens decide. And

40:03so I think that some of the questions

40:05you have are very valid, but for town

40:07meeting night and not for this time

40:09right now.

40:10>> Absolutely.

40:11>> Yes.

40:12>> I think the first question you're going

40:14to come up with is

40:16>> But is that tonight's question?

40:18>> Well, if if

40:19>> there's going to be lots of questions

40:20you probably didn't even think of and

40:21they're all good ones.

40:22>> Oh, no. I thought about this quite a

40:23bit.

40:26>> I've had, you know, multiple years to

40:28think about it. Well, I just hope that

40:31people will come to the town meeting and

40:32they can be educated on it at the town

40:34meeting and they can make the educated

40:36choice.

40:36>> And that's that's the process that the

40:38people love and we know from former

40:40master plans that were done that when we

40:42looked into getting rid of town meeting

40:44and going to a different form of

40:46government that this is what the people

40:48this is like number one. Let us we like

40:50the fact we can get on the town floor

40:52and have these have these discussions.

40:54It's it's it's the process they never

40:56want to at that time they didn't want to

40:58get rid of.

40:59>> Okay. So again, I don't think any of us

41:01for five member board can sit here and

41:03say

41:03>> the risk the committee has here is not

41:06giving enough information to town

41:08meeting voters to make a decision and

41:10you get shot down.

41:12>> That's a risk.

41:13>> Then you get shot down,

41:14>> right? That's okay. You get shot down

41:16and that's right. Then they can vote.

41:17But you're not going to get those

41:18>> make your case against it. It's okay.

41:20>> Oh, I'm David. This is

41:22>> Yeah, but if I but if I make my case

41:24against it at town meeting and I say

41:26yes, here I'm a little bit hypocritical.

41:27Well, then don't re vote to not

41:29recommend it, but leave the article.

41:31Please let the let let the article stay

41:34and vote not to re

41:36>> But I agree with them what Jamie said.

41:39But um yeah, let we're all entitled to

41:41our opinions, but to block this from the

41:43the voters. And I will remind you,

41:44>> you know what? If if if there was if if

41:47if this is what we maybe

41:51can we change the wording on this a

41:54little bit

41:55>> to what

41:56>> to to $500,000 to help

42:00facilitate a design that will fit on

42:02that space.

42:04>> That's what

42:05>> that's what it is.

42:06>> This is No, but I'm hearing But I'm

42:08hearing But you just said the design is

42:09already done.

42:13So Steve, which is through you, which is

42:16good because the layout is done. So some

42:18of that 50,000, let's hope, was spent in

42:21the right way. So we, that's my

42:23understanding, we can take those plans

42:25that we already spend the money on and

42:27hopefully use it to elaborate on it, do

42:31more study and see if that fits in our

42:34land on Masonic

42:36>> and like like but this is the next

42:37phase. So, I would make a motion that we

42:40we we support we we support the rec that

42:43this article as

42:45>> presented with well as amended. I

42:47already did that, didn't I?

42:49>> And we had a second. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.

42:52>> We've amended with the community center

42:54next

42:54>> and all this does and then just as a

42:56reminder, all this does is get it to the

42:58people and the debate can happen and

43:00then you

43:01>> Yeah, that's

43:03>> I I don't believe anybody seconded it

43:05though. Yes,

43:06>> I second this and I said it and I go to

43:08what Karen said and this is my

43:11understanding that one of the

43:13>> most important jobs of select board in

43:17my opinion is to put hold and let

43:20through the warrant articles for that

43:23specific reason.

43:25So yes, is a democratic way of some Yes,

43:29that's one explanation. What I think and

43:30I'm not going to put words in your in

43:32you Steve, but what he's thinking that

43:34yes, this is our right to not to vote it

43:37in. So I want to be clear that this is

43:39not that we must to put it on the

43:41warrant. We can take it out because

43:44that's

43:46part of our responsibilities if we don't

43:49see it fit. So let's just clarify this.

43:51Now Karen made a motion to put this

43:55article five on the Warren

43:58amended adding

44:00>> the community center to the senior

44:01center.

44:02>> I made a motion to recommend it. It was

44:04to to to support

44:05>> to support it

44:06>> to support it. But you supported it

44:07amended. So should Right. So we were

44:10supporting amendment.

44:10>> That was for the wording change.

44:11>> The word it was for the wording change

44:13but then we so we had to say we support

44:15as

44:15>> so that's very clear. So now the motion

44:17on at the table is to support article

44:21five

44:22>> as amended

44:22>> as amended.

44:23>> And through the chair the last thing I

44:25will say just just a general reminder if

44:28you look at our organizational chart the

44:30citizens you are at the top we are at

44:33the next line.

44:34>> Correct.

44:35>> So you know we want we want those same

44:37citizens will might say how can you

44:40bring something in front of us if you

44:41don't even know how big it is. Well, we

44:43can

44:45>> we will address

44:46>> we will this will all get addressed and

44:48there'll be other questions you didn't

44:49even think of

44:50>> and and it gets addressed, but then the

44:52risk is is wasting $500,000.

44:54>> But it's up to the people to decide if

44:56they're going to do it. Are you are you

44:58I don't understand you're wanting to

45:01block this from the people who are going

45:04to be actually footing the bill. You

45:06want to don't you want to ask them? You

45:08think you want to?

45:09>> So So then so then what what should be

45:12should be included in this. What should

45:14be included in here is that you want to

45:16take the design, the Lero design from

45:18Charlton Furniture and move that layout

45:20to this spot, this site.

45:22>> That's that's what you're asking.

45:24>> No, doesn't matter.

45:25>> That that is No, but that that's what

45:26you just said. You said the design is

45:28done.

45:29>> No, the point when there was confusion

45:31when the chair of the feasibility study

45:33came up

45:35>> why she had mentioned all the other

45:36options just to let the people know how

45:38that $50,000 was spent. That was the

45:41purpose of saying of all of that. We

45:44wanted folks to know the citizens to

45:46know that the money that they approved

45:48at that last town meeting where it went

45:50and it wasn't wasted and this isn't

45:52starting from scratch. So they can take

45:54that and now it's time to tweak it and

45:56get fine-tuned and get the do the

45:58dollars

45:59>> and there's they have huge P publicity

46:02coming out all kinds of FAQs. So let the

46:05process happen. I mean not to so that's

46:09that's where we are now and

46:11>> so we just want to hope that at the town

46:14meeting there will be people there who

46:16both support the expenditure for the

46:19senior center and the people that might

46:21not but that's up to these people to

46:24decide okay

46:25>> you know if we if it's going to I'm with

46:28you on this

46:28>> I I will ask um I'll I'll support this

46:31to get put on the um

46:34on the town meeting as a town

46:36But I'm going to take the floor and I'm

46:38going to ask some questions.

46:38>> That's right.

46:39>> And hope you ask come to open house.

46:41>> How big is it going to be? What is it 11

46:43million? Is it 14 million? I don't think

46:45>> we encourage they encourage questions

46:46and I keep saying that because I'm the

46:48non- voting member on the advisory. So,

46:50but thank you.

46:51>> Yeah.

46:51>> Can we vote now?

46:52>> Yes.

46:53>> So, motion is second.

46:55>> Um, all in favor? I I

46:58>> I

47:04>> have a hard time with the two.

47:06>> Yeah, I am. Well, obviously I am too

47:09>> because the Yeah, I can't change my

47:15>> I

47:18>> thank you.

47:22>> Moving on to article six.

47:25This is for transfer to and from

47:27stabilization funds. Um our

47:30recommendation on this one is $100,000

47:33from free cash to the general

47:34stabilization fund to maintain our

47:37stabilization fund according to reserve

47:39policy. Um $50,000 to the capital

47:43stabilization fund for the same purpose.

47:47uh $1 million from retained or sewer

47:50retained earnings to the sewer

47:51stabilization fund and $400,000 from the

47:55water retained earnings water

47:57stabilization fund.

48:01>> All right. I'll entertain a motion that

48:03the finance committee support article 6

48:05as presented.

48:07>> Motion.

48:07>> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

48:09discussion?

48:12There being none, all those in favor say

48:13yes.

48:14>> Yes. I

48:16>> it's unanimous

48:19>> and a motion from the board for article

48:22six.

48:23>> I move that um the select board supports

48:25recommends article six as presented.

48:28>> Second.

48:29>> All in favor?

48:30>> I I

48:33>> All right. Article seven to amend

48:35general bylaws chapter 110 animal

48:37control. Essentially, this is the um

48:40board's request to add in a u Z license

48:46fee for seniors and create a new

48:49exemption for veterans. Uh we did

48:51receive uh some feedback from legal

48:54counsel related to um the original way

48:57that you guys had proposed the motion.

48:59They noted that because it is not an

49:02exemption under chapter M or MGL chapter

49:05140 section 139 that there needs to be a

49:09delta between the fee for um an intact

49:13dog versus a spade and neutered dog. So

49:17we can't do zero on both on both of

49:19them. So there has to be some type of

49:21fee for uh the senior citizen class and

49:25the veteran class. So, I don't know if

49:27you guys have any recommendations for

49:29that.

49:34>> Andrew, do you have a recommendation for

49:35that? To make it $5 and zero or

49:38>> that was a recommendation that I had

49:40received from member not here this

49:41evening. So,

49:43>> okay.

49:45>> To amend as five

49:47>> to Yeah.

49:47>> Okay. $5 for intact and zero for Okay.

49:52>> A motion and a second.

49:56Did we get a second?

49:57>> Second.

49:58>> All in favor?

49:58>> I

49:59>> I

50:02unanimous.

50:08>> I I will entertain a motion that we the

50:11finance committee supports article 7 as

50:13amended.

50:14>> Motion.

50:15>> Second.

50:16>> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?

50:19>> There being none, all those in favor say

50:21yes.

50:21>> Yes.

50:22>> Ray.

50:23>> Yes. Yes, it's unanimous.

50:30>> You guys take a motion on

50:32recommendation.

50:34>> Oh, a motion on a recommendation. Do I

50:37hear one?

50:38>> Second.

50:42>> I I move to

50:43>> Do I have a second?

50:44>> Second.

50:45>> All in favor?

50:46>> I

50:47>> All right. Article A is to amend general

50:49bylaw chapter 155 of licenses and

50:53permits. Uh this is actually requested

50:54through the building commissioner. This

50:56is just a mod uh to meet current master

51:00law related to delinquent tax uh pair

51:03and withholding of permits. Um it just

51:06adds in uh so currently the statute says

51:09the collector shall annually furnish and

51:11we're adding an inmate periodically and

51:14then striking out the language for not

51:17less than a 12 month period as it

51:19relates to uh look bad period. This is

51:23just to comply with current state law.

51:30>> I'll entertain a motion that the finance

51:31committee support article 8 as

51:33presented. I'll make a motion.

51:35>> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

51:38discussion?

51:39>> There being none, all those in favor say

51:41yes.

51:44>> Unanimous.

51:47>> And motion from the board.

51:49>> I move to support article 8 as written.

51:54>> A second.

51:55>> Second. All in favor?

51:57>> I.

52:00Article nine is to accept Mass General

52:02law chapter 138 section 33B uh sales for

52:06alcoholic beverages on premise license

52:08on Sundays in certain legal holidays.

52:11Um, essentially what this does is allow

52:13the local licensing authority, aka the

52:16select board, to um issue the the

52:20allowed times for opening on Sundays to

52:22go back to 10:00 a.m. Currently, without

52:26acceptance of the statute, noon is the

52:28earliest time. Believe there's currently

52:30legislation on the or not. There's

52:32currently a bill before the House right

52:34now, it's being considered that any town

52:35that accept the accepts this may go back

52:38to 8:00, but that's still pending in the

52:40legisle. But um first the first step

52:42would essentially be to accept this.

52:45>> Yeah. Okay.

52:48>> I'll accept a motion from the board.

52:50Motion to approve article 9 as written.

52:52>> Second.

52:53>> All in favor?

52:57>> All right. And the final one that the

52:58board needs to take action on would be

53:01relative to article 10, acceptance of

53:02Ashley Road and Amber Road as public

53:04ways. You previously held your public

53:06hearing related to this, so a formal

53:08recommendation would be suggested.

53:11[snorts]

53:14>> Okay. Do I have a motion?

53:17>> I move to support article 10 as written.

53:21>> Second.

53:22>> All in favor?

53:23>> I.

53:25>> Unanimous.

53:28and that the rest we don't have to um

53:31rest is you can adjourn your meeting

53:35a motion we adjourn the meeting

53:37>> motion I have a second any discussion

53:40there being none all those in favor say

53:41yes

53:42>> yes we're returned

53:45>> good night

53:51>> able to log off soon before we move on

53:53to the next

53:54>> thanks

54:04Thank you much.

54:08>> On to our 7 o'

54:29Somebody likes me.

54:33[clears throat]

54:41All right.

54:42it being well past 7 o'clock. Um, you

54:46have on your agenda Russ and Irish

54:48Jennings discussed complaints related to

54:50August 1st, 2026 event at the board's

54:53August 11, 2026 meeting. Police Chief

54:55Dow noted his concerns regarding the

54:57event held at 508 International on

54:59August 1st, 2026, regarding numerous

55:02complaints received from the event,

55:03including traffic and parking issues on

55:05Brookfield Road interfering with normal

55:08traffic flow. Uh both Russ and Irish

55:10Jennings have been invited to tonight's

55:11meeting and are here uh tonight to

55:14address the issues before you along with

55:15Chief D. Okay.

55:16>> And welcome Russ.

55:18>> Good evening Dave.

55:21>> So there was an event held at 508 on

55:24Saturday, August 1st.

55:27That event kind of got overwhelming as

55:29far as parking spaces. So the the

55:31parkers decided to park in residential

55:34areas causing a lot of disturbances to

55:36neighbors and

55:38like 508 to be a successful business and

55:41succeed, but they have to do show a

55:42modicum of respect to their neighbors.

55:45>> That's all I got.

55:47>> Okay.

55:49>> Russ, do you have anything to I mean, we

55:50did we saw some of the complaints and

55:52some of them we got emails.

55:55Um, have you figured a way to rectify it

55:58or

56:00>> um Yeah, of course. uh you know in

56:03business anytime you uh you have a

56:07problem you always seek a solution so

56:09that you know it doesn't exist in the

56:11future and that's naturally what we're

56:13doing.

56:14>> Yeah. Is it just something that got out

56:16of hand or or was it

56:19>> um

56:20you know it it was really a lot of

56:23factors. Um but uh you know fortunately

56:28we have some answers and uh you know

56:30we're working some things to uh

56:32alleviate any problems like this in the

56:34future.

56:38>> Any other questions from the board? I I

56:40don't

56:42um as far as notifying the town to let

56:44them know. That would be a

56:47to let to let the town know that that's

56:48happening would be a certainly a plus.

56:51Was it more employees that are needed or

56:55>> um No, I think it was just uh perfect

56:59storm if you would have it just a lot of

57:02different factors, but uh we've handled

57:05bigger crowds and we um you know we we

57:10tend to learn fairly quickly from our

57:12mistakes and like I say correct those

57:15pretty quickly. So

57:19>> I guess my my concern is at you know,

57:21the number of ticket sales or something,

57:23you have an idea of the volume of

57:25people. I just think we need it when you

57:27get to a threshold, you have to have a

57:30now it's time to have a real plan in

57:32place, you know, or we'll wing it, you

57:34know, because that's what happens. And

57:36um again, I want the business to succeed

57:38or just just don't want problems in the

57:40neighborhood. I have no ill will towards

57:42the family. Uh I just can't have

57:45neighbors calling saying they can't get

57:47out of their driveways and people

57:48urinating their lawns and things that

57:51because of an overflow of a crowd. Um,

57:55>> and Russ, those are legitimate

57:56complaints, too. And those emails, we

57:58all got them that weekend and the the

58:00following week. I mean, it's

58:01>> Well, I'm not here to argue that.

58:03>> Yeah. Yeah.

58:05>> We're just trying to figure out what's

58:06going to help it in the future. You know

58:08what I mean? Is it more employees

58:10getting people in faster? Was it a clog

58:11on the driveway because people were

58:13parked in the streets? Were you just

58:14over capacity or what was it?

58:17>> No, I think uh, you know, again, there

58:20was There was a lot of different

58:22factors. Um, some factors that didn't

58:24even weren't even part of our control.

58:27There were uh numerous traffic

58:30situations

58:31well beyond 508 and well beyond Charlton

58:34that affected traffic coming to our

58:37facility at a certain point in time. So

58:40the early rush that normally happens

58:42didn't necessarily happen until late

58:44because traffic problems elsewhere. So

58:47what happened was it was, you know, they

58:49staggered these events starting at 8:00

58:51a.m. Well, the 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 traffic

58:55all got backed up. So as a result of

58:57that, that came when it was 9, 10, 11,

59:00and 12:00. Um, shortly after 12:00,

59:06actually when the detail officer came on

59:08duty,

59:10there was no problem from that point on

59:12because the traffic just dissolved

59:14because the peaks went away and those

59:17congestive issues ceased to happen. So,

59:21when I say there was a perfect storm,

59:23there was a lot of things that happened.

59:24But

59:25>> the parking was Yeah, even it didn't

59:26just go away. The parking was still an

59:28issue along the sides of the streets

59:30blocking the road and

59:31>> well once that happens then that's

59:34that's an issue until the people until

59:36the people leave naturally. I mean when

59:38you park a car that's you know so but

59:41again we we have uh we have dealt with

59:45larger crowds um and know how to rectify

59:52the situation in the future.

59:54If I may say something.

59:56>> Sure.

59:57>> Your officers did a wonderful job. Thank

60:00you.

60:01>> Thank you.

60:01>> And some of the neighbors wanted to come

60:03up this evening and explain what

60:06happened on parts of the Brookfield

60:08Road.

60:09Some people were taking people and

60:12directing them into their driveways and

60:16charging them to stay there.

60:19So I said, "No, please don't come up. We

60:22we're going to what everybody has to say

60:25and correct it. And like I said, your

60:28men did a fabulous job. Thank you.

60:31>> Thank you.

60:32>> The only thing that's difficult without

60:34any notice is, you know, obviously

60:36summer is for everybody likes to take

60:38their vacation time. So my staff is not

60:40unique to that. They want to be off

60:42during the summer. So we typically run,

60:44you know, unless we have an event or

60:45something, we run bare bones sometimes

60:47to accommodate vacation time off and

60:49stuff. And when you have a big event

60:51[clears throat] and it's tying up

60:52offices for several hours, it's not

60:54fair. It just it's avoidable. So, we

60:56just need to do something in the future

60:58so that it doesn't happen again. But at

61:00this point, it's water under the bridge.

61:01I can't go back and finish J Whoopi's

61:03time machine and make things right. It's

61:06just

61:07>> moving forward. We've got to work

61:09together so that doesn't happen again.

61:11Do do you have like an idea of how many

61:13people are going to show up for random

61:14events or is it just a Facebook event

61:16that people show is coming or going or

61:20>> sell tickets?

61:20>> Is there ticket sales for that?

61:22>> So there there is there is typically

61:26what we require from the venue or from

61:28the people who are leasing the venue is

61:31four weeks prior to the event a number

61:34of participants. Okay.

61:36>> Okay. But

61:38given that it's an outdoor event um

61:41weather

61:42>> weather has a factor was gorgeous day um

61:46late registration

61:48had record number of people register

61:50late that you know they had never seen

61:53before um again all part of the perfect

61:56storm. Um so a number that they are

61:59required to give us four weeks in

62:00advance now dramatically changes two

62:04days one day day of so you know but like

62:09I say we've um

62:13we have good thoughts in mind and you

62:16know we're working through the plan to

62:18make sure it doesn't happen again.

62:22>> Yeah. I think that's all that it is a

62:24communication between your us and the

62:25chief. you have those great ideas, if

62:27you want to communicate them with him

62:29ahead of time, I think they will

62:30resolve, you know, lots of those issues.

62:34>> Teamwork.

62:37>> Yeah, I agree.

62:42>> There's no there's really no ask here or

62:45vote. Just to kind of anything you can

62:49do not to not to let that happen again

62:51would be

62:52>> Well, I mean, I certainly don't want to

62:53be here.

62:54>> Yeah. No, I Nothing against you guys.

62:57Nothing against you.

62:58>> I know. You got call down to the person.

63:02>> I don't I don't want to pay a $1,400

63:04fine either. Yeah.

63:06>> For a police detail.

63:07>> So, you know, it's

63:09>> which you you ended up doing because

63:12Yeah.

63:12>> Right.

63:14And no, it wasn't only that, but I was I

63:16remember looking at was when that

63:17happened and the attendees were unhappy

63:22>> unhappy no parking and that it was

63:24disorganized when I was reading some of

63:26the comments from the attendees and

63:27that's not good for you either.

63:29>> Well, Mrs. Jennings is not wrong. Some

63:30people profit, so they're probably not

63:33as concerned. They had people in their

63:35parked in their lawns and such and you

63:36know saw

63:37>> Yeah.

63:38>> saw lemons and made lemonade.

63:40>> Yeah.

63:42Maybe if you can just put in your, you

63:43know, no parking on the roads, cars will

63:46be towed. Cars will be towed because we

63:48did talk about that. This is, this goes

63:50back a couple of months, but we talked

63:52about

63:53>> if you put in no parking tow signs,

63:56that's

63:58>> they have to be temporary because people

64:00might not want that in their front lawn,

64:03>> right?

64:03>> Residents.

64:05>> We're going to follow your suggestion,

64:07Stephen. You deal with those complaints

64:08from that.

64:12Wonderful idea.

64:14>> See, Steve thought of that one.

64:15>> I bet you did. I bet you did.

64:18>> I think just notification to the chief.

64:20Yeah. A month out when you get your

64:22first example of how many people you

64:23expect and maybe a week before and the

64:25day of what you're thinking.

64:28>> Just keep them in the loop.

64:31>> Y.

64:33>> Okay.

64:34>> All right. Thanks for your time this

64:35evening.

64:36>> Thank you, Chief.

64:38>> Thanks for asking. Thank you, Mr.

64:40Jennings.

64:44>> Thank you.

64:53>> Moving on to our last

64:57right last action item for this evening.

64:59Town's use of flock automated license

65:01plate readers. At the board September

65:038th, 2026 meeting, Michelle Charmers

65:06came before you and asked to place the

65:09town's use of flock automated license

65:10plate readers on tonight's agenda for

65:12discussion. She provided her office with

65:15two citizens petitions for the upcoming

65:16special town meeting, one binding and

65:18one non-binding regarding the flock

65:20automated license plate as well.

65:22Signatures were verified by the town

65:24clerk's office. We received a request to

65:26remove the binding citizens petition um

65:28due to legal um questions on it and keep

65:32the nonbinding petition on for the

65:35October special time meeting. This the

65:37decision relates to relate to contracts

65:40rest with the select board

65:43stumbling over my word there.

65:45>> The microphones don't seem to be working

65:47very well. I don't know. I couldn't hear

65:50anything back there.

65:52>> I don't know. Is there

65:56>> that microphone not working well?

65:58>> I just couldn't really hear.

65:59>> I'm sorry. I speak really low, so that's

66:02my fault.

66:03>> I don't have that problem.

66:11>> Well, good evening. Good evening,

66:12everyone. Michelle Chalmer's, 46 Prindel

66:15Hill Road. Um, first I want to uh

66:18obviously thank the board uh for placing

66:21Charlton's use of flock uh automated

66:23license plate readers on tonight's

66:24agenda and allowing this public

66:27discussion and vote to take place.

66:30uh more than 160 residents um signed a

66:34petition uh requesting action on these

66:36cameras. Uh those residents represent

66:39diverse perspectives. Uh this is not uh

66:43simply my personal concern. Uh it is a

66:46community request for transparency,

66:49accountability, and a decision u by our

66:52elected officials. Uh, town council has

66:55determined that decisions involving

66:58these contracts fall within the

66:59authority of the select board. So, the

67:01responsibility for deciding whether

67:03Charlton continues, expands, uh, or

67:06discontinues this system therefore rests

67:09with you. We recognize that license

67:12plate readers may assist police in

67:15certain investigations. Uh this effort

67:18is truly not about opposing our police

67:21department or dismissing uh legitimate

67:24public safety needs. Uh it is about

67:27whether the benefit of this system

67:29justify automatically collecting and

67:33making searchable the vehicle location

67:36information of people who are

67:38overwhelmingly suspected of no crime.

67:42Charlton currently operates four

67:44cameras. The records also show a

67:47separate agreement for four additional

67:50cameras that according to the police

67:52department have not yet been received or

67:54installed.

67:56The board has an opportunity to act

67:59before this system doubles in size.

68:02I respectfully ask the board to vote

68:05tonight to discontinue Charlton's use of

68:08flock, stop the installation of the four

68:11additional cameras, prevent automatic

68:14renewal, and direct the town

68:17administrator and town council to pursue

68:20every legally and financially

68:21appropriate termination and refund

68:24option.

68:26I wanted just to confirm Andrew I think

68:28what you were saying is that the

68:30citizens petition when you close the

68:32warrant it is still on the petition

68:34correct okay so we want to make sure

68:36that the citizens petition is still on

68:38the warrant for town meeting um and so

68:43um it can stay on the warrant we'll take

68:45it off um once uh the board takes action

68:49uh consistent what with what the

68:51residents uh request uh the residents

68:54have made their concerns known and

68:56there's more uh citizens that will speak

68:59tonight and I think you've also received

69:01some emails. So tonight we are asking

69:03the board to respond with a clear and

69:06recorded decision. So thank you.

69:10>> Okay, who wants to go first?

69:12>> I think

69:15would you like to come up?

69:24Hello, my name is Christopher Willow, 47

69:26Jennings Road.

69:28Um, I do know that flock cameras are,

69:34you know, generally that is a lot of

69:35discussion that people have burn brain

69:38up over privacy concerns. Um, despite

69:42other major concerns people would have

69:44about them, I would also like to discuss

69:47other major concerns that these cameras

69:50have been involved with that are also

69:51impacting the East Coast and

69:53Massachusetts. Um, so generally these

69:58cameras have been leading to false

69:59arrest and they also

70:02>> Excuse me. Could you pull the microphone

70:03a little closer?

70:04>> Yes, of course.

70:04>> Especially when you're covering the

70:06office.

70:08>> Thank you. These cameras have led to

70:10false arrest and also false hot list

70:14assignments. These cameras also assist

70:16with AI recognition which can be

70:20determined to cars and other people that

70:23predict patterns, behavioral patterns,

70:26and other physical traits inside cars,

70:28bumper stickers, and anything else that

70:30is recognizable on in their environment.

70:34These car, not cars, these cameras

70:36specifically, some ALPRs also work with

70:40um ICE and some of them also work with

70:43other surveilling networks like

70:44Palunteer. Um, of course, there's other

70:47major details out there about this. I'm

70:49just

70:51spreading out more info that some people

70:54may not know. Um,

70:57despite this though, there's a whole

70:59bunch of concerns about them. And I

71:01would also like to say besides flock um

71:06taking down um the power or more likely

71:09shutting these things off, they have not

71:13been quote unquote put down um because

71:16there are some been some cases where

71:18they have been released back up to be

71:20put on power and that was with unknown

71:23authority being access to playing them

71:26back up on power. So what I have seen

71:29most people do to actually stop these

71:32things being um put on

71:36um generally to stop the privacy

71:41concerns and all that they will cover

71:43them or generally they will just cover

71:47the camera or microphone or anything

71:49similar to that is what helps most of it

71:52stop. And it can also, in my opinion,

71:54generally see who is trying to mess with

71:57the camera or who's not. Um,

72:01besides that, um, I would also like to

72:05discuss how vulnerably these canals

72:07cannibers cameras are. Um, they are very

72:10vulnerable to other digital attacks.

72:13They are vulnerable to everyone. Um,

72:17very vulnerable in all perspectives. Um

72:20just like all technology it's very

72:21vulnerable. Um also there are other

72:25major ALPRs in this environment as well

72:28despite being flock and those other

72:30major ALPRs are also being um used as

72:34alternative when these flock cameras are

72:36going down. So I know we're not talking

72:39about other major ALPRs but despite the

72:43flock cameras going down they will be

72:45used as the alternative to be brought

72:47back up.

72:49Okay,

72:54thank you for that. Is there anybody

72:55else that's wishing to speak before

72:57>> I'm just curious where is all your

72:59knowledge coming from? Are you involved

73:01in any ways with

73:02>> Say again?

73:03>> Where is your knowledge coming from?

73:05>> It's coming from other civil cases

73:08considering um outside Massachusetts and

73:11inside Massachusetts. By civil cases you

73:13mean you read about them or you

73:14participated in them or you uh

73:16>> documented those

73:18>> it's documented some in newsletters some

73:21in post it's all variety um various

73:25government sources um that's all I can

73:28say but it's generally documented

73:31>> thank you

73:31>> yes of course

73:32>> on social media

73:34[clears throat]

73:39Sh.

73:58Good evening, members of the select

73:59board. My name is Brian Powers. I live

74:01at 48 Partridge Hill Road here in

74:02Charlton. Uh before I begin, I want to

74:05say clearly that our local police

74:06department is fantastic and I deeply

74:08appreciate the work they do to keep our

74:09community safe. I want to acknowledge

74:12that most locals have no idea that we

74:13already have six operational flock

74:15cameras hidden across town, including at

74:17the library, Stafford Street, Route 169

74:20by Amazon and the Mass Pike. A year ago,

74:23this technology was instituted with

74:25almost zero public comment. But things

74:27have changed since then. More than

74:29120,000 of these AI cameras have sprung

74:31up. what seems like instantly across the

74:34country. What started as an isolated

74:37safety tool has rapidly scaled into a

74:40massive centralized corporate

74:41surveillance network and now we're

74:44talking about expanding our local

74:45footprint even further.

74:48While we all know that privacy concerns

74:50and abstract theories surrounding the n

74:51the nationwide scale exist, I'm not here

74:54tonight to debate them. Instead, I'm

74:56here to address the immediate

74:57operational, financial, and legal

74:59liabilities this specific contract

75:01brings to Charlton. Practical risks that

75:04our closest neighbors have already

75:06recognized and acted upon.

75:09We are an extreme outlier in our own

75:11backyard. Our direct neighbors are

75:13rapidly dismantling this exact system.

75:16South Beach has suspended its flock

75:17agreement due to lack of of guardrails.

75:20Auburn has ordered the complete

75:21deactivation and physical removal of its

75:24flock cameras. Douglas, Grafton, and

75:26Boilston have all followed suit and

75:28canceled their contract. If our closest

75:31neighboring towns have determined that

75:32flock is a liability, Charlton must ask,

75:35"Why are we doubling down by expanding

75:37it?"

75:38This is a procurement risk based on the

75:40exact same text we signed. Towns like

75:42South Bridge and Auburn halted or paused

75:45their programs because local officials

75:47in legal reviews raised serious alarms

75:49about the standard contract terms and

75:51municipal oversight. Because Flock Huses

75:54uniform boilerplate agreements

75:56nationwide, the contracts that

75:58Southbridge and Auburn found to be

76:00unacceptable are likely the exact same

76:03contracts that Charlton has signed. We

76:05need our town council to review this

76:07immediately before we deepen our

76:09financial and legal exposure.

76:12This is a massive fiscal and legal risk

76:14for our taxpayers. Independent audits of

76:17active deployments have revealed that

76:19Flock AI can suffer from error rates as

76:21high as 71%

76:24in vehicle reads. When a machine

76:26mistakes a zero for an O, it triggers a

76:29high-risisk felony stop. Towns across

76:32the country are facing massive civil

76:33rights lawsuits because innocent drivers

76:35are being pulled over at gunpoint due to

76:37software typos. By expanding this

76:40network, we are actively expanding

76:42Charlton's legal liability. I strongly

76:44support efficient public safety, but

76:47tools of this magnitude require deep

76:49public debate, clear metrics of success,

76:52and strict oversight. Tonight, I ask the

76:55select board to protect Charlton from

76:57legal liability, and align with our

76:58neighbors. Please vote to pause the

77:01expansion, place a moratorum on the

77:03current cameras, and direct town council

77:06to review the contract for termination.

77:08Thank you.

77:09>> Thank you.

77:10>> And not to add any other companies to do

77:12the same thing.

77:14>> I'm sorry. What was that?

77:15>> And not to add any other companies

77:17afterwards to do the same thing. Like

77:19don't just cancel Flock and bring on

77:20Axon. That doesn't do anything. It

77:22actually gets worse. So,

77:24>> okay.

77:26>> This um is there anybody else or

77:35Stephan Sage Lincoln Road? I just want

77:38to cl I'm also the chair of the

77:39Charleton Public Library. I just want to

77:42uh board of trustees. I just like to

77:44clarify that the flock camera or

77:47whatever kind of camera it is. It's was

77:48mentioned at the Charleton Library is

77:51not on Charleton Library's property. It

77:53is on the public sidewalk monitoring the

77:56crosswalk. Charlton Public Library had

77:58nothing to do about having a flock

78:01camera put into the library. Thank you.

78:04Okay.

78:11Is there anyone else to speak on the

78:12matter?

78:21>> Uh, Zach Stiffler, 29 West Applewood

78:23Drive. Uh, good evening. Uh, I'm here

78:26tonight to ask the select board to

78:28terminate its contract with Flock and

78:29remove all existing cameras from the ch

78:31town of Charlton. Charlton already has

78:34one of the lowest crime rates in the

78:35state. So before we create a permanent

78:37infrastructure for tracking vehicles and

78:39recording the movements of innocent

78:40residents which can be accessed not only

78:42by local agencies but federal agencies,

78:45some of which are actively engaged in

78:46dismantling dismantling civil liberties,

78:49we should ask two simple questions. Is

78:51this level of surveillance truly

78:52necessary in a town with an admirably

78:54low crime rate? And more importantly,

78:56does the potential harm to innocent

78:58citizens outweigh its benefits? Flock

79:01cameras do not simply look for people

79:02who are suspected of crimes. They

79:04collect information on everyone who

79:05drives past them. That being the case,

79:07how long before an innocent person is

79:09charged with a crime they did not

79:10commit? Because a car similar to theirs

79:12was witnessed at a crime scene or

79:14because a crime occurred at a place they

79:15frequent. If you ask Lindsay Issacs of

79:18Florida, Eve Pisarelli of Rhode Island,

79:20or Chisana of Colorado, they will tell

79:22you it has already happened. These are

79:24just the first instances in which

79:25individuals have suffered despite law

79:27enforcement acting in good faith. And I

79:29believe if mass surveillance uh becomes

79:31the norm, it is reasonable to assume it

79:32will not be the last. Uh for the sake of

79:35time, I will not go into detail

79:36regarding the potential for as well as

79:38numerous documented cases of abuse

79:40resulting from members of law

79:41enforcement not acting in good faith.

79:43However, and with no disrespect to

79:45Charlton Police Department, I will

79:47mention that a cursory Google search

79:48will provide no shortage of examples,

79:50including four that have occurred in

79:52Massachusetts. Uh the erosion of the

79:54Fourth Amendment is no longer a

79:55hypothetical concern. It is occurring in

79:58real time and affecting innocent

79:59citizens. I urge the board to find

80:01itself on the right side of history by

80:02rejecting mass surveillance, voting to

80:04remove flock cameras, rejecting further

80:06expansion of the system, and putting

80:08civil liberties and public trust before

80:09convenience. Thank you.

80:17>> Is there anyone else to talk on that

80:19before we start talking?

80:24[clears throat]

80:26I'll start off on this. So when this

80:30this started percolating over the

80:33summer,

80:34we started seeing a lot of things about

80:37flock and all that type of thing. The

80:39town of Charlton put them in place two

80:41years ago, not one year ago.

80:44There was discussion. It was an open

80:46meeting, just like the meeting tonight.

80:48It was posted.

80:50Um

80:52there was discussion back and forth

80:53about it when all this hype started this

80:55summer.

80:57Um,

80:58it's actually was it was Mike and I were

81:00talking about it at the end of July,

81:02early in a in August,

81:05and I thought it was important. Mike was

81:07actually um on that on the on the side

81:10of being against them,

81:13and I was trying to explain to him what

81:15we learned when we voted to put them in.

81:21So, a refresher was needed. So, we met

81:23with PD. I think all of us have

81:25individually if not Mike and I went

81:27together and YouTube went individually

81:29went through a training course on flock

81:32and we learned what the cameras do what

81:34they can't do

81:36we excluded all the hype

81:38um

81:40and it's it's a confusing part and I can

81:42understand why the public is confused

81:46but the um flock is not a pl is they

81:49confuse it with the platforms that mail

81:51tickets to you

81:53that's A lot of people are confusing it

81:55with flock is

81:59>> okay. Okay. Very good. Very good.

82:01[clears throat] Let me finish. Let me

82:03finish.

82:04It's not a It's not a platform that

82:06mails tickets. It doesn't have that

82:09technology. It is It is a simple little

82:11box

82:13that records.

82:16>> Excuse me. Could I finish though? It is

82:18a simple box. We've watched the

82:20demonstrations from PD. The camera

82:23itself is what I'm talking about now.

82:24It's a simple box that takes pictures.

82:27It is a It is no It's pictures of a

82:31license plate. Flock does not have any

82:34facial recognition in a camera. It does

82:37not take video.

82:39>> It's not just the license plate. You can

82:42see the entire area of where the camera.

82:45>> It takes the back of the car and it it's

82:47and it stores that information.

82:49>> Right.

82:51It is a It is a

82:53>> but it doesn't have the ability to tell

82:55you who is driving that car.

82:58>> It does not.

82:59>> Your camera might not, but their system

83:00does.

83:01>> Their clock system does not. That's

83:04where people are wrong.

83:05>> To somebody else who does. What's the

83:06difference?

83:08>> So, so what we So, we went Mike and I

83:11went yesterday and we had a meeting with

83:15Back Downer PD and Flock representatives

83:17on Zoom. They were for them and they

83:19explained the system. You can you can

83:22laugh all you want.

83:24>> Um

83:26we're terrified.

83:27>> Why would you? It's it's

83:29>> dangerous.

83:30>> So you trust software people that are

83:33manufacturing it over

83:35>> who owns it?

83:36>> Just

83:38a ton of water, please.

83:40>> What happens is the people at home when

83:42we're all talking, they can't hear what

83:44you're saying. And I've had many

83:46requests saying, "Hey, could you please

83:47remind folks if they want to say

83:49something? Come up so we can all hear

83:51you." Otherwise, the people at home

83:52can't hear what you're saying. So,

83:55excuse me for interrupting.

83:57>> Um, and I would just also like to say, I

83:59know we have the police chief here, not

84:01to put him on the spot, but if he I

84:03think offering him the opportunity to

84:05say a couple of things if he chooses. If

84:07not, that's

84:08>> I I'd like to finish just what I was

84:10saying because I if I may. All right.

84:12So, we

84:14you can, believe it or not, you can

84:16watch the demonstration.

84:18It's if you'd like to do that. The um

84:21it's a law enforcement tool.

84:24It It reads and stores a license plate.

84:28That is it. It does not do facial

84:30recognition. It does not do video. It

84:33takes

84:35a a trained law enforcement officer

84:38with a case with a case. He has to have

84:41a case number and a reason and a license

84:43plate number to type in that license

84:45plate and then they can look in and say

84:48and hit a camera and say, "You know

84:50what? That stolen car was on Stafford

84:52Street an hour ago." That's the only

84:55way. It's not looking for a crime. It's

84:58it's a tool to solve a crime. It and it

85:01doesn't do anything more than store

85:04license plate. It doesn't store the

85:05person's name, their information, where

85:07they live, their address. That is a

85:09separate tool that law enforcement has

85:10had in place for decades where they they

85:14use the seizure system where they use

85:15their they go in and tune it up and then

85:19they go searching for it.

85:21It's um

85:24the data as far as storing data right

85:26now the data flock flock stores the data

85:28for 30 days and then they erase it.

85:32There was legislation around the country

85:34that they're trying to make that 21

85:36days.

85:37Flock is now putting in what we learned

85:39yesterday is that they may put in a in a

85:43in the ability to re erase the

85:45information in seven days. That would be

85:48up to the choice of a of a police chief

85:51to do that. Um state legislation is also

85:54kicking in. You're seeing it in the

85:56state house. They're talking about it.

85:58What was it in um in Virginia? They're

86:00looking at a 21day

86:02just to erase all the information on

86:04fly. It is it is no different than going

86:07outside and taking a photograph of the

86:09back of my car right now. That it's it's

86:12the same it's the same thing. You can

86:14laugh.

86:15>> Is that

86:15>> I've I've watched the demonstrations.

86:17>> Can we watch the demonstrations?

86:19>> Yes, of course. Please do. Not tonight,

86:21but yes. You know, that's you know,

86:24that's probably the best point I've

86:25heard from from the from the

86:28>> the the opponents of this whole system

86:30tonight is can we watch it? Absolutely.

86:32The problem is education.

86:34>> Yes. Is that just the brochure or is

86:36there data saying that this is legit?

86:38Because I mean

86:39>> you could look at two things if if the

86:41chief allows it. You could look at what

86:43an officer does when he has a he has to

86:46have a case file a case number and a

86:49license plate in order to log into the

86:51system.

86:52>> Is that

86:55I you know I can't speak I can't Yeah.

86:58You know point of order though. Yeah.

87:00Please if if

87:01>> what's up the chief?

87:03Yeah, [laughter]

87:05>> may maybe some you know that was a good

87:06point though I did for bringing it up

87:08because we did talk about that it's

87:10really an educational process more than

87:13>> more than

87:14>> I would like it to be known that the

87:16case number thing is a new part of the

87:18system within the last month uh police

87:20officers were not required to have a

87:22case number before

87:24>> I can't I can't

87:25>> everything anything anything and

87:27everything from the officer physically

87:29logging in to the website is time and

87:32date stamp recorded from their names,

87:34the officer's names, the date, the time,

87:37and then they have to have a reason in

87:39order to pull the request to get the

87:41information, which would be a picture.

87:43Um, we have sat through hours of

87:46training uh through this. We had uh like

87:50Steve said, we had flock on on webinar.

87:53We zoomed with them for several hours.

87:55Um, I poked around because I like

87:58yourself had many questions from from

88:01the whole big brother surveillance kind

88:03of thing. Um, right down to is it

88:06tracking me where I go, how I get there.

88:08It's none of that. I I have to tell you

88:11I was completely

88:13I don't want to say upset, but I was a

88:14little upset at what these cameras

88:16actually had the functionalities and

88:18capabilities of doing. I I have wildlife

88:21cameras out in the woods that take way

88:23better pictures and are way more

88:24detailed than these. These things just

88:27take six pictures every second

88:30continuously, non-stop.

88:33>> Go ahead.

88:38>> Yeah, we're gonna have to Sorry about

88:40that. just

88:41>> um I believe Boston just got rid of them

88:43because one of the concerns was that

88:46even the even though the contract said

88:47that it would not or it would only take

88:50it for 21 days, 30 days, whatever it may

88:52be, that wasn't the case. They were

88:54finding it going into national databases

88:56being logged in these data centers.

88:58They'll stay there forever and then if

89:00they ever want to find anything about

89:01anybody, they can just type something in

89:03and it has our whole entire life in

89:06there. Like it's so it's just

89:07>> So that's not that's not the case.

89:08>> That's not the case. We we've released

89:10copies of contracts. We've released

89:11copies of terms and conditions. We we've

89:14asked the same questions to the chief. I

89:17asked Flock themselves the same thing.

89:20We own the data. We own the information

89:22that these cameras take these pictures.

89:25Nobody else gets them. And after I

89:27believe it's 30 days now, everything

89:29deletes and goes away. And and that is

89:31per the contract. That's that's written

89:33in there.

89:34>> And then I mean

89:36audit.

89:38>> Yes.

89:40the chief of police and whoever he

89:42assumes I'm assuming probably a captain

89:44and again there's a report that

89:45>> come

89:48we don't trust anybody else

89:50>> again no disrespect to the police but

89:53>> should there not be an independent third

89:55party agency making sure that the data

89:57is secure

89:58>> there is there is that's what I asked

90:00same thing

90:02>> I don't have the name of the company

90:03that does it

90:04>> actually but it's validated

90:05>> if we can stay on one if you're you all

90:08done with. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.

90:11>> Dan, you want to you want to

90:14put put you on the spot

90:17>> for anybody? This is our chief of police

90:18stand out.

90:19>> Welcome myself to the Lions, right?

90:21>> Yeah. Well, hey. Yeah.

90:25>> And Lieutenant Gribbons

90:26>> what flock does and doesn't do. Nobody

90:30wants to live in a police state. Nobody

90:32wants to be constantly under

90:33surveillance. When you have a flock

90:36camera, we'll use the live near the

90:38library. Sorry, near the library. When a

90:41plate goes by, it takes approximately

90:43six pictures of either your license

90:46plate or vehicle description. So, per

90:48second per second. So, it's not a video

90:50that's constantly running, but it's six

90:53quick snapshots. So, if somebody said,

90:56"Hey, I just got into a hit and run and

90:57a red pickup truck came by." We could

91:00now go and say, "We've got a hit and

91:01run. Did any red pickup trucks go by in

91:03the last five minutes?

91:06I could look at hours and hours of

91:08traditional video, but it wouldn't do

91:10all that work for me and just find it.

91:11What it's going to show me is a picture

91:13of your vehicles. People like, "What if

91:15the data gets released?" What Steve was

91:17implying was what gets released is a

91:20picture of your license plate. It

91:21doesn't. We have to do another step and

91:23go into what's called CIS and then run

91:25that license plate to get your personal

91:26information, which isn't part of the

91:28flock system. What the flex system is

91:30going to show is a picture of possible

91:32vehicle red pickup truck license plate

91:35123 ABC. That's all we got. Now, that

91:39may you may not be the person that

91:42caused what of the hit and run, but at

91:43least it gives us like three vehicles

91:46matching that description went by. We

91:47can go talk to three people. Oh, geez,

91:49you've got front end damage. You're

91:50probably the person that just did the

91:52hit and run. That's what we would do

91:53with that information. Um, Anthony can

91:56speak much more eloquently about it. Uh,

91:59as far as the technology,

92:01>> so the technology takes six stills per

92:04per excuse me, six stills per second.

92:07Um, it's not a, like the chief said,

92:09it's not a continuous video feed. Um,

92:13sometimes if a vehicle is traveling too

92:15fast, it doesn't catch it. Um,

92:19you know, it it uh it's set up on an

92:22algorithm. It works off the algorithm.

92:24It's not recording, like you said,

92:26video. It doesn't record voice. Um, and

92:32>> go ahead.

92:32>> This is just in the current state,

92:34right? There could be updates later

92:35where this

92:36>> I don't think we're interested in

92:37updating beyond that. I mean, we're not

92:39looking to get into like shot spotter

92:41and all these other things.

92:42>> Yeah. I think there's a fear of

92:45technology in general, like, oh my god,

92:46this is what's going to happen next.

92:48That's not what we're looking to do. But

92:50yeah, once it's in there, it's hard to

92:51get out.

92:52>> As a police chief, I don't know what I

92:54say to the family of Molly Bish or Holly

92:57Perini that we couldn't have helped

92:59identify a vehicle, maybe found that

93:01child before something tragic happened.

93:04You sure? You know, um we're not looking

93:06for we're not working with ICE that

93:08doesn't know a person's name. It doesn't

93:10have the ability to do that. But what it

93:12does is a red pickup truck. We can say

93:14that many red pickup truck go by Chevy

93:17and it could identify three or four

93:19Chevy red pickup trucks went by. If we

93:22were to say um you know this is the

93:25possible license plate, you know, 123

93:27ABC, it would say, "Hey, it went by the

93:30library heading that direct towards CVS,

93:33but it doesn't tell us where where you

93:35came from, what you were thinking about

93:36going to." I mean, people have this idea

93:39that it it's plotting out their whole

93:41day and saying, you know, is it going to

93:43tell me that I was having an affair on

93:45my wife? It it doesn't do any of that.

93:47It really doesn't. It literally takes a

93:48snapshot, which hopefully with six

93:50snapshots, we can get a license plate.

93:53It's not perfect. Doesn't always happen.

93:55>> It's true.

93:56But it gives us a better chance of

93:58finding a missing person, finding an

94:01elderly person with dementia that the

94:03family, you know, a a wife wakes up in

94:06the morning and says, "Hey, my my

94:07husband has dementia. The car is missing

94:09and you know, stuff like that." Um, now

94:12a lot of times all we can tell them is

94:13it went down Stafford Street where it

94:15went, we can say a direction of travel

94:17that we got a flock hit on that vehicle,

94:20the missing person, right? where it

94:22went, but we got a time frame that hey,

94:24it went by at 8 o'clock this morning,

94:27but we won't know that until we go look.

94:28>> Are you telling me that the system will

94:30not when you search that vehicle on that

94:34give you every hit in an area?

94:37>> What do you mean by that? So like

94:39>> when you search when you search for a a

94:42vehicle, are you searching for based on

94:44characteristics of the vehicle? Are you

94:46searching for based on plate? plate is

94:49our our primary,

94:51>> but you could be looking for a

94:52description to your point. So, it does

94:53two things. It does license plates.

94:55Sometimes people get the license plate

94:57wrong. They're off the digit or

94:58something like that. So, you can put it

95:00in. It comes up with close matches or

95:03you may get an exact match or vehicle

95:05description. It was a It was a brown

95:06van. Okay. So, we can put in we're

95:08looking for a brown van in the last 20

95:11minutes. Did it go by these cameras? But

95:13it doesn't tell us. You could be in

95:15town, but you didn't go by the flock

95:17camera. So that doesn't mean you're not

95:19in town. It just simply means you didn't

95:20go by a caught on say

95:26>> when you do that search, what is your

95:28limit? What is your limit in terms of

95:30time?

95:31>> What is your li limit in terms of

95:33location that the system returns? So

95:36we're limited maximum maximum

95:38>> our maximum limitation currently is 30

95:41days

95:43>> and distance location

95:46>> no wide

95:48>> we we can search nationwide if other

95:50departments have given us permission to

95:51search the cameras

95:53>> so that's a home petition thing where

95:56you basically say are you willing to

95:58share your information in Texas if they

96:00are then we could in theory say hey has

96:03this vehicle been anywhere in the last

96:0530

96:06It was it was in Texas.

96:10>> But unfortunately, we're trying to limit

96:13if we can have just one conversation.

96:14>> We're trying to limit it to New England

96:16for the most part unless it's a serious

96:17serious investigation.

96:21>> Roadways that that do come in trouble,

96:24right? Or areas where I'll give you an

96:26example. Stolen cars in in Charleton,

96:30they end up in Connecticut and they go

96:32to New Jersey, they go to they go to New

96:34York. Okay, drugs. Drugs that are coming

96:37into trouble are coming out of the

96:39south. Okay, they're coming out of

96:41Atlanta. They're coming out of Florida.

96:43Um,

96:45and we have roads adjacent to us that

96:49that travel into those areas. Okay. Um,

96:53Charlton does not have like you're not

96:57seeing it's it's not

97:00you're not seeing handhand drug

97:02transactions in Charlton as much. they

97:04they occur. Okay. But in Charlton, uh we

97:09are a the way the way I think to best

97:13describe it is we are the hub on a wheel

97:17of just roads. Okay? We have a lot of

97:20access to big roads. We have a lot of

97:21roads close by and our roads connect to

97:25other big roads. Okay? A lot of drugs

97:28come through. There's no that's not a

97:30secret. Okay? Um, and if you go to

97:33Dudley District Court and wonder, hey,

97:36why are there so many trafficking

97:38arrests in this area? It's because of

97:39the roads that are here. Okay. Um, and

97:42those roads, we all use them every day,

97:44but drug dealers and drug traffickers

97:46use them every day, too. Uh, and people

97:49doing other crimes, too.

97:50>> So, if there's an Amber Alert, not all

97:52drug, that's not always criminal, but if

97:54there's an Amber Alert for somebody

97:55missing or an elderly person, we can

97:57literally put that plate in and get an

97:59activation if they come into town. We

98:01may not be able to catch them or find

98:03them because they're continuing to

98:04drive, but at least we got we can notify

98:06the surrounding communities. Hey, this

98:08vehicle just went down Stafford Street.

98:10Don't know where it's headed, but it's

98:12in the area. It also puts vehicles that

98:15we're looking for. They're now in New

98:16Bedford. There's no reason for us to be

98:18driving around aimlessly looking for

98:20them anymore. We know they're not in the

98:22area. So, that's why sometimes it does

98:23help to reach out. Does the contract

98:25limit you to the

98:29is the contract limited specifically to

98:32the ALPRs that are currently built or

98:35does it does it also allow for

98:40oh

98:42does it allow for the condor models that

98:45allow free form? No, we we have Falcon

98:48models right now. Um those are the the

98:51ones that we have. Those are our

98:52contract. Um everything that I am seeing

98:56okay regarding Falcon there's no voice

98:59recognition. There's no facial

99:00recognition in that.

99:02>> Is there anything preventing the

99:04installation?

99:06>> We wouldn't sign a contract for a condor

99:08model. We can only sign for models.

99:14>> Ian, to your point earlier, we can only

99:17search flock.

99:19>> Okay. So we can't search an ax on

99:22camera. We can't search

99:23>> not not via this not via this system.

99:25Not via the system.

99:26>> We don't we don't have a contract with

99:28them to search. So we don't have that

99:30data available to us.

99:33>> Correct.

99:33>> I have a question on the suggestions

99:35point about scope of the searches. Um,

99:39would that type of search, say red

99:41pickup truck and in Charleton, including

99:44outside of Charlton, could that

99:46constitute a drag net search that was

99:49deemed unconstitutional? The Fourth

99:51Amendment earlier this year, 63 in a

99:54Supreme Court case.

99:57>> I think you'd have to give me more. Uh,

100:00 | >> Anony's got a law degree, by the way,

100:05 | >> but no, but I I see your concern. Okay.

100:09 | >> Um

100:11 | >> but I would say this to you. Okay. Who

100:13 | in the room doesn't have a smartphone?

100:16 | >> Okay.

100:18 | >> And that's what scares me more than

100:20 | anything else.

100:22 | >> No, I understand that.

100:23 | >> Carpenter 2018 Supreme Court case

100:26 | outlawed searches by location because

100:29 | you're not necessarily giving up your

100:30 | right to privacy um based on your

100:33 | location because a smartphone is a

100:35 | integral part of your life. there's a

100:37 | difference for vehicle.

100:38 | >> I'm not talking about that. I agree with

100:40 | you on that. It's a search warrant. It's

100:41 | a It's

100:43 | >> But my concern is the data that's in my

100:46 | phone. I can't control who it's being

100:48 | shared to. Okay. Um

100:56 | >> No, you can't.

100:58 | >> I turn off everything in my phone. Okay.

101:01 | And I'll give you an example. Today we

101:04 | had a fingerprint installed. fingerprint

101:06 | machine installed in the station and I

101:09 | got an ad for card stock. Okay, I didn't

101:13 | Google anything. I didn't look anything

101:14 | up and there's something beyond what I

101:17 | can control that's that's doing that.

101:20 | Okay,

101:21 | >> but I think that's that's part of the

101:22 | point.

101:23 | >> It's actually part of these

101:26 | cameras. I think we need

101:28 | >> for one second. Okay. So, I I have a I

101:34 | don't know AOL email address. Okay.

101:37 | >> So, I have a Gmail.

101:40 | >> Gmail doesn't give me an insurance

101:42 | policy that my data is not

101:45 | >> gives us an insurance policy.

101:46 | >> They give us an insurance

101:49 | to the bone there.

101:50 | >> Um I don't know where my data is being

101:53 | shared or what have you. Um and I get

101:57 | concerned about that. Whereas talk at

101:59 | least gives me some assurance and I I do

102:01 | see your concern.

102:03 | >> I understand we talked for hours.

102:05 | >> Yes.

102:05 | >> And I'm willing to talk to anybody in

102:07 | the room and and

102:08 | >> I just think we need to understand that

102:11 | just like you and I had this

102:12 | conversation that this is larger than

102:14 | Charlton. We can certainly talk about

102:17 | the individual circumstances of a

102:19 | dementia patient or a lost child. We

102:22 | agree with all of that. But if that can

102:24 | be used have that how do I access it? I

102:27 | can't. Somebody goes missing. I can't

102:29 | blow her six months.

102:31 | >> We didn't have any of this and you were

102:33 | fine.

102:34 | >> No, no, we wouldn't be fine.

102:35 | >> We still solve crime and police still

102:38 | did their job. So, I think we have to be

102:41 | understanding that this the capacity of

102:44 | these cameras and you and I sat down and

102:46 | you showed me, do you remember how many

102:48 | outside agencies, police offic uh police

102:52 | departments and sheriff offices that

102:54 | you've told me how many access to our

102:57 | cameras.

102:58 | >> 119 of 120,000.

103:00 | >> Yes. And then you had like 50 more that

103:03 | you had to give permission.

103:04 | >> 15, right?

103:05 | >> 15.

103:06 | >> So you have 1,200 or almost 1,200

103:09 | outside agencies, not even to do with

103:12 | Charleton that have access to our

103:14 | cameras. And I think we need to

103:16 | understand what can they see, when can

103:19 | they see it, where what are they doing

103:20 | with

103:22 | a horrible picture. [laughter] It's not

103:25 | even

103:25 | >> the picture that the camera takes. It's

103:27 | not a

103:28 | >> We're getting where I think the two

103:31 | people on the side of the road walking

103:33 | in old home day. I could see everything.

103:35 | I could see the dog. I could see

103:37 | everything in the picture. So, I don't

103:38 | >> How about the ring cameras? Do you got

103:40 | you have a ring cameras on your house?

103:42 | >> No,

103:44 | we're getting a little We're getting a

103:45 | little What? I'm

103:46 | >> I guess what I'm hoping is that we can

103:48 | before you vote. There's a lot of

103:51 | information that was not included. I

103:52 | sent you an email a couple days ago.

103:54 | Still have not got that information

103:56 | regarding my public records request. Um,

103:59 | what outside agencies can search or

104:01 | request Charlton's data? Does Charlton

104:04 | approve each outside search individually

104:06 | or do some agencies have continuing

104:08 | access? Can Charlton audit every outside

104:11 | search including who conducted it and

104:14 | why? I know you get a case and they say,

104:16 | "We need to see this. Why?" Okay. And

104:18 | then I think the town needs to

104:20 | understand you showed me one camera on

104:24 | Stafford Street in a 30-day period

104:27 | >> licensed or took pictures of a half a

104:30 | million different well not different

104:34 | half a million pictures. Yes.

104:37 | >> Half a million pictures of us.

104:40 | >> Right. And only of your car.

104:43 | No. Do you?

104:44 | >> Huh?

104:44 | >> Of your license plate.

104:46 | of the entire car.

104:48 | >> You can see the entire back of the car,

104:51 | not the license plate. If I'm if I am

104:55 | driving, if the if the picture is taken

104:58 | once every six seconds or six every 1

105:01 | seconds, you are going to get a picture

105:03 | of me

105:04 | >> in that if I go the same speed or a

105:07 | different speed. So, you can't just be

105:09 | careful with making those blanket

105:11 | statements because

105:13 | >> I know it doesn't intend pictures of

105:16 | people, but it does. And again, this is

105:19 | all we're asking for is transparency to

105:21 | be able to have this.

105:23 | >> You're you're actually you're actually

105:24 | not asking for transparency. We're

105:26 | trying to give you that. You're asking

105:27 | for You're asking to get rid of them is

105:29 | what you're asking.

105:30 | >> Well, I'm asking to get rid of them

105:31 | because we don't have the transparency.

105:33 | We don't

105:34 | >> If we can just if we can just hold that

105:36 | thought right there. Now there was some

105:39 | there was when we brought up the idea of

105:41 | training or or a seminar we could show

105:43 | people that I I was looking at a lot of

105:46 | people nodding their heads an

105:47 | educational format where people could do

105:49 | that. We saw it and we were convinced

105:52 | that it's not a threat. It's not I'm I

105:54 | don't like big government. I don't like

105:58 | >> big government looking down on me. I big

106:01 | brother all of that stuff. I don't like

106:03 | that. And and I'm sure and the chief

106:05 | that is not what this is. That is not

106:07 | what this is.

106:09 | >> I think I'm sorry, Steve.

106:10 | >> No.

106:10 | >> I think when these came out two years

106:12 | ago and there's been zero incidences

106:15 | here in Charlton of anybody abusing

106:17 | anything.

106:17 | >> That's not true.

106:19 | >> Yes, it is.

106:20 | >> Yes, it is.

106:20 | >> Yes, it is.

106:24 | >> Correct.

106:26 | >> Correct. Nobody Nobody has abused the

106:28 | cameras themselves.

106:29 | >> What do you mean abused the cameras?

106:31 | using them to find the chief's example

106:33 | of somebody cheating on somebody's wife

106:35 | or husband or whatever it is. There

106:36 | hasn't been any of that.

106:38 | >> Me personally, Charleston had to pay a

106:42 | me personally. What I experienced not

106:45 | you know what on that what we haven't

106:46 | talked about yet of the policy that's

106:48 | that's in place that the chief put in

106:50 | two years ago. There were five five

106:53 | reasons you can log into the system and

106:55 | five and more than five that you can't.

106:58 | And the ones that you can't are

107:00 | immigration purposes. There's a lot on

107:01 | there that you'd actually like to read.

107:04 | >> I have it, but it does it's not accurate

107:06 | like

107:07 | >> it's not accurate because you don't

107:09 | understand it or it's not accurate dates

107:10 | of when the policy who signed the policy

107:13 | and then what are the you know uh

107:15 | punishments if you will? What's the

107:17 | accountability in the policy?

107:19 | >> If if it's misused

107:21 | if it's misused, you're saying what's

107:23 | the accountability? No, that would be

107:26 | that would be a disciplinary action from

107:27 | the chief, but for sure.

107:29 | >> I know, but it's just not in the policy

107:31 | >> because it hasn't happened. Well, that

107:32 | hasn't Well, maybe we that I'm I don't I

107:35 | can't speak for him on that, but

107:37 | >> I also think we haven't heard enough of

107:38 | the good things that that the flot

107:40 | cameras have done for us.

107:42 | >> Like I don't know how many people have

107:44 | heard what happened at Bayath just last

107:46 | week.

107:49 | >> Have you? My son was in that class.

107:52 | >> Yes, I

107:52 | >> at that evening. And

107:54 | >> there was a shooter in route to cameras

107:56 | probably I would probably have no sound

107:58 | didn't help that

108:00 | >> that's how they caught the suspect

108:02 | >> and you certainly at that period

108:06 | >> Brown University and MIT that's how they

108:08 | caught it Marvin Antoine that just

108:10 | passed away last weekend at the football

108:12 | game down in in in Rhode Island or UMass

108:15 | Dartmouth he was stabbed to death flock

108:18 | helped catch that killer

108:20 | >> well I was a lot of good

108:24 | I am telling you I'm the mother. I'm I'm

108:26 | not speaking as the select board member.

108:29 | My son was in that class on No, you

108:32 | don't. Do you did you have a son in that

108:34 | class? No, you didn't. And because of

108:36 | those fl No, you don't. And in because

108:39 | of the flaw camera,

108:41 | >> call it whatever you want. I have a son

108:44 | tonight and that's it on that topic

108:47 | because Yes.

108:49 | >> Because because of that. So from because

108:52 | he never made it to the school

108:53 | apprehended him and

108:54 | >> the FBI was involved with the social

108:56 | media.

108:57 | >> Basha, please we can just try to try to

108:59 | get this back.

109:01 | >> Try to get this back on to some

109:02 | measurable outcome.

109:04 | >> FBI picked up something about a

109:06 | potential shooting.

109:08 | They reached out to our police

109:10 | department. They started to set up their

109:13 | standout points. That's how they tracked

109:15 | this guy. They they knew who made the

109:18 | post. They know where he was going

109:20 | because he was a student

109:24 | and that's how they caught him.

109:25 | >> He never made it to the school and you

109:27 | never heard about it because it wasn't

109:29 | technically an incident

109:30 | >> whether we had flock or not. They still

109:31 | would have done that to do with

109:36 | that because they he was apprehended.

109:38 | >> It is a it is it is a it's a tool in

109:40 | their tool box. It's not there.

109:42 | >> It's not the you don't understand

109:44 | >> about who else has access.

109:46 | >> All right. So is there you you sat

109:49 | through the presentation. You know who

109:51 | else has access.

109:52 | >> Is there a way

109:53 | >> but but on that note how many so moving

109:55 | forward and the chief I don't want to

109:57 | throw this on you but would you you and

110:00 | would you guys be willing to do some

110:02 | type of a demonstration somewhere?

110:04 | >> Yeah we were talking in the hall when

110:05 | you mentioned it. Um you

110:07 | >> I could he asked me the chief asked

110:10 | could you do a demonstration right here

110:12 | and

110:12 | >> not this second camera. You know

110:15 | >> the problem I have is that I need a

110:16 | secure IP address in order to use the

110:19 | camera. And we don't have a secure IP

110:22 | address here. Otherwise, I could I could

110:25 | do something for you. But we could

110:27 | definitely set something up if people

110:28 | would be interested.

110:29 | >> Oh,

110:29 | >> every time every time they log in,

110:31 | there's a multiffactor authentification

110:33 | or authentication that has to go through

110:35 | if he uses a different laptop or cell

110:37 | phone or however they get in. There's

110:38 | multiple layers of security for them to

110:40 | even get in.

110:41 | >> Yes, definitely.

110:41 | >> No, the the cell phone gives me the

110:43 | second authentication.

110:45 | 10 or 12 at a time to the chief in South

110:48 | Bridge.

110:49 | >> I'm sorry.

110:49 | >> Have you spoken to the chief in South

110:51 | Brbridge?

110:52 | >> Yes, I've had conversations with him.

110:54 | >> Do you know why he discontinued

110:56 | the block?

110:57 | >> Well, at some point the um the juice

110:59 | isn't worth the squeeze if he was going

111:01 | to get attacked and everything, but

111:04 | >> he got attacked as far as the usage of

111:07 | it saying, "Hey, this is we don't want

111:08 | it."

111:10 | >> But but

111:12 | at some point in time, you know, public

111:14 | opinion

111:15 | But he has expressed that they've

111:18 | utilized ours as far as calling us and

111:20 | saying, "Hey, we're looking for a

111:21 | vehicle that just took off. We just

111:23 | apprehended somebody that was involved

111:25 | in a shooting the other night."

111:28 | >> Old home day. There was a vehicle that

111:29 | drove by a stolen place from Georgia.

111:32 | Every day there's something that can be

111:34 | caught on these

111:36 | >> and and there's more good than bad.

111:38 | crime and all the details.

111:42 | >> At what capacity is the town going to be

111:44 | held if there's a lawsuit

111:46 | >> from why why would there be a lawsuit?

111:48 | >> Well, like there's been almost a hundred

111:50 | cases across the country, okay, of

111:54 | situations where the camera's been used

111:56 | in an incapacity where it was wrongfully

111:59 | charging the person.

112:01 | >> I don't know. I'm just speaking I I

112:04 | don't know of any in Massachusetts where

112:06 | that's happened. Okay. But if we got a a

112:10 | hit on a motor vehicle uh off a license

112:12 | plate, the officer is going to run that

112:14 | license plate, confirm it. He's going to

112:16 | visually confir he or she is going to

112:18 | visually confirm it before they make a

112:20 | stop. Okay.

112:21 | >> Obviously, but like in the in the grand

112:23 | scheme of like the big picture, right?

112:26 | How is there 100 incidences already?

112:29 | Right.

112:29 | >> We don't I don't know that.

112:31 | >> Why haven't you looked that up? You

112:32 | trust what they tell you from? Because

112:34 | because because we're we're because

112:35 | we're in the Troutton town hall

112:37 | discussing the town of Charlton.

112:40 | >> That's something we can verify locally.

112:42 | We verify

112:43 | >> any local news reports or any any of

112:46 | course we do. Of course we do. Do you do

112:49 | you do you watch on the same do you

112:50 | watch the ones where there's a positive

112:52 | that that have been coming out?

112:54 | >> Now there seems to be a shift in the

112:56 | media now. You're seeing news news

112:58 | channels even locally pick up flock and

113:00 | some of the good things about it.

113:01 | finally

113:03 | and they're talking about cases being

113:05 | solved. The hype is going on. It's I'm

113:08 | I'm really convinced it's an educational

113:10 | idea.

113:11 | >> I I was on the same side.

113:13 | >> Well, we're wrong. Like I said, I am

113:14 | limited in space, so I can't put 40

113:16 | people and and there's no way you can

113:21 | beative actions from Flock. I don't

113:24 | understand you in the past two weeks,

113:25 | you haven't looked it up. I mean, you

113:26 | might not believe everything, but

113:27 | there's all suicide.

113:28 | >> I'm on social media all the time. I see

113:30 | the negative hype, but but I but I've

113:33 | also been going through the training and

113:35 | there were people laughing when I said

113:36 | it doesn't do voice recognition. It the

113:39 | cameras we have it does not. There were

113:41 | people laughing when I said that. There

113:43 | were still people laughing when I

113:48 | movements. You have the license plate.

113:50 | >> It is a snapshot of a it's not

113:54 | >> but it doesn't but it doesn't look it

113:56 | doesn't private companies that

113:59 | information. The police can pinch your

114:01 | phone and find you so much easier.

114:04 | >> Same with the ring. Same with the social

114:06 | media. You people.

114:07 | >> All right. We haven't given this.

114:09 | >> If we get some more to hear, um Karen

114:11 | would like to speak and we haven't let

114:13 | her

114:13 | >> I've actually said haven't said a word

114:15 | yet.

114:16 | >> So, I think what this board needs to

114:18 | think about is

114:21 | this is this is we have a citizens

114:23 | petition. If this passes or doesn't

114:26 | pass, how are we going to react to that?

114:28 | because as far as I'm concerned and

114:31 | again they're great talking points

114:32 | tonight and I encourage everyone to you

114:34 | know become more informed so we can all

114:37 | have make a again an educated informed

114:39 | decision that night but at the end of

114:42 | the day this I can speak for myself and

114:45 | I want to know how the town's people

114:47 | feel because you are the ones that again

114:50 | I I referenced that org chart early on

114:53 | you're our boss bosses as far as I'm

114:55 | concerned and what you say at town

114:57 | meeting speaks loudly at least to me.

114:59 | But you're going to know both sides of

115:01 | it. The you decision regardless of what

115:05 | it is and our decision comes with

115:07 | consequences. Just get informed. But I

115:10 | and again I think we need to decide you

115:12 | know if I know it's a non-binding

115:14 | question. Non-binding question means if

115:15 | even if it passes that we're not

115:17 | obligated to take any action because

115:20 | it's non-binding.

115:22 | But I think we are obligated

115:25 | to do so because it's in the spirit of

115:27 | the question. We should in my opinion

115:30 | abide by what the town's people want.

115:33 | >> I and I think I I not saying I disagree

115:37 | with you, but but I think the problem a

115:40 | lot of the problem is people what what

115:42 | they're what they what they're

115:44 | understanding isn't the factual

115:46 | >> understood. Education is important and I

115:49 | think there's a way we can do it. I

115:51 | don't know how It's just what is that we

115:54 | have to decide on?

115:55 | >> I think

115:57 | >> so maybe does does this board want to

116:00 | move forward with any kind of motion

116:03 | regarding the outcome if this motion if

116:06 | the cition motion passes

116:10 | >> fill in the blank do we want to then

116:12 | pause or you want to wait

116:14 | >> I don't think he wants by the citizens

116:16 | decision I think he wants to

116:19 | make choice himself

116:23 | I was just trying to kind of contain it

116:24 | a little bit. And again, this is I think

116:26 | that we all I think the consensus is in

116:28 | this room that our Charlton Police

116:30 | Department really does a great job and

116:32 | we have confidence it's it's all the

116:34 | other unknowns out there. I I I get it.

116:36 | Good points made on both sides. But

116:39 | >> that's any I already said it and then

116:41 | >> I I I'm pretty firm on the Mike was a

116:44 | perfect example. Mike was like a lot of

116:46 | people in this room right now a month

116:49 | ago and he sat through the training and

116:51 | and him and I we argued about it and

116:54 | then I said fine let's go get some

116:55 | training and then it once you see what's

116:58 | available for and the the usefulness of

117:00 | the tool

117:02 | >> I I asked I'm sorry I asked multiple

117:04 | questions to everybody that was there

117:07 | involved and and I did ask about uh the

117:09 | threeletter agencies and if they had

117:11 | access and they don't. Um there was a

117:14 | lot of questions that I had I'm sorry.

117:15 | Which three?

117:17 | >> The threeletter agencies. N any of them.

117:20 | >> FBI,

117:20 | >> FBI, CIA, ICE, NH, NHS,

117:23 | >> any of them.

117:26 | >> Has I showed you four searches

117:30 | >> in the month?

117:31 | >> In the month. Okay. All have a reason.

117:33 | all have something associated with

117:34 | >> time, date, stamped receipts,

117:36 | >> but they don't have

117:37 | >> Would you agree that that was the only

117:39 | that and the US Postal Service and I

117:40 | explained to you those were the only

117:43 | ones that had a search in there

117:46 | >> for the last 30 days,

117:49 | >> right?

117:50 | >> You don't have that information. You

117:51 | couldn't give me the information before

117:53 | that. I asked for it, but you couldn't

117:54 | give it to me because I lose it for

117:56 | >> the last 30 days. Well, you have

117:59 | >> we should individual conversations here,

118:01 | but I don't have off the top of my head.

118:07 | >> All right, this

118:10 | >> we I think we could sit here and go have

118:13 | this back and forth go all night. I

118:15 | think the um

118:17 | what's before the board. It's obviously

118:20 | the it's going to be on the the article

118:23 | is going to be on town meeting,

118:25 | >> right?

118:27 | non-binding article and what are the

118:29 | wishes of this board. I really encourage

118:32 | people to take

118:35 | to however we do it some type of

118:37 | educational

118:39 | to attend it with an open mind and and

118:43 | it can't be if if it if it's an hourong

118:46 | presentation and there's bickering going

118:48 | back and forth that's going to be a

118:50 | three-hour long presentation. We don't

118:51 | want that. just come in and listen and

118:54 | and for an hour if you do it 15 people

118:57 | at a time. Is there any way you can do

119:00 | it in a room this size?

119:02 | >> Sure, I could. I just have to do some

119:04 | work. Yes.

119:05 | >> In in order to get the IT the IT part of

119:08 | it and just put something together

119:09 | that's

119:10 | >> what works better what works better for

119:12 | people. Is it evening or is it daytime?

119:14 | Is it

119:14 | >> you can probably size this and see

119:16 | >> there's only 15 at a time multiple sess.

119:19 | I don't know if we find a bigger venue,

119:20 | but it's the

119:21 | >> Dexter Hall IP address the IP a secure

119:23 | IP address is my biggest hangup.

119:25 | >> I think a room this size is probably I

119:27 | think that's just

119:33 | here.

119:33 | >> So,

119:35 | so I just I don't want to do the groups.

119:38 | >> I just have to find a place that can

119:40 | handle. So,

119:41 | >> you know, you know, we could we could do

119:42 | it here and this room is already all

119:44 | televised. People would be able to watch

119:46 | it from home. We got to make sure the

119:47 | >> the IP address.

119:48 | >> Yes. Why don't we get back on that?

119:50 | >> I asked if we could use this room

119:52 | because I just thought it would be

119:53 | easier.

119:53 | >> No, it it does make Yeah, it does make

119:55 | sense. And you you could actually people

119:56 | could almost zoom in with a question if

119:58 | they're at home with a question as well.

119:59 | >> And to be honest with you, I could zoom

120:01 | in people from that would be more

120:03 | beneficial.

120:03 | >> That would be excellent.

120:04 | >> Mr. Chair,

120:06 | is it is there a possibility that we

120:09 | could or you could sorry you the board

120:14 | could at least vote tonight to not

120:19 | install the other four cameras um before

120:23 | the town makes a decision. I don't know

120:25 | if that's I I

120:27 | >> I would take a I would I would take a

120:29 | motion right now that

120:30 | >> I'd prefer myself not to make any

120:34 | changes until

120:36 | >> training education is completed and if

120:38 | there's further questions or further I

120:42 | definitely don't want these around then

120:43 | we can take it from there but I don't

120:45 | where these things are bought and paid

120:47 | for and they're up and they're working

120:48 | and the contract is already going even

120:50 | if we took the

120:51 | >> cameras down still paying the contract

120:54 | In fact, it could not.

120:57 | >> We don't even have them.

120:58 | >> We're not going to get any.

121:00 | >> But is it Can you put that in a formal

121:02 | motion?

121:03 | >> Put that in as a motion.

121:05 | >> I'm uh Yeah, I make the motion to not

121:08 | make any changes until we have uh either

121:10 | an online Zoom or an education class uh

121:13 | given by the police department and

121:15 | potentially flock if they can get

121:16 | involved

121:17 | >> and see how many participation

121:18 | >> there was that last there was a

121:20 | gentleman from Flock that was going to

121:21 | be in the area.

121:23 | until after the vote on it.

121:26 | >> We have a motion. Do we have a second on

121:28 | that not to take a second?

121:30 | >> Just

121:31 | >> for for

121:32 | >> So we have a motion and a second not to

121:34 | take any action tonight.

121:36 | >> Um do we have a vote?

121:38 | >> I talked conversation discussion usually

121:40 | happens after the motion and the second

121:42 | Mr. Chairman.

121:44 | >> Okay. So, regarding this motion, um, why

121:48 | are we taking any action on anything

121:50 | until when we I I personally would like

121:52 | to see everything paused until after

121:54 | town meeting. I'm not sure why we have

121:56 | to double down on saying we're not going

121:58 | to do something.

122:01 | >> I I I'm just not understanding the need.

122:03 | >> We're just not The motion was not to

122:04 | take any action tonight.

122:05 | >> Correct.

122:06 | >> That's that's very clear.

122:08 | >> Well, I think we should commit to

122:09 | something.

122:12 | Well, I I think we should commit to

122:14 | something if I I personally want to

122:16 | know.

122:16 | >> No, no, no, no. We're actually following

122:18 | your request. You you wanted us to take

122:22 | a vote tonight,

122:23 | >> okay,

122:24 | >> to either do one of the three things,

122:26 | >> right?

122:27 | >> And we're taking a vote on that on your

122:29 | request.

122:30 | >> That's about as fair as you can get

122:32 | action. So, we have a motion and a

122:34 | second

122:34 | >> to to not to not move forward with

122:36 | anything

122:37 | >> not to install until

122:39 | >> until after the education and the people

122:41 | that showed up here tonight.

122:42 | >> Oh, so we're not going to I say it

122:43 | wasn't clear. It wasn't

122:45 | >> we're not going to install anything.

122:47 | >> We don't have anything to install.

122:49 | >> We don't have the cameras yet.

122:50 | >> I'm misunderstanding.

122:51 | >> If they come tomorrow, you could install

122:53 | them based on your motion right here.

122:55 | >> Chief, have they been

122:56 | >> I'm not I I believe the last time we

122:58 | audited cameras, it took till like

122:59 | November. So, I'm not anticipating them

123:01 | being in and obviously in a spirit of

123:03 | fairness, I would hold off until you

123:06 | have your moment. And

123:08 | >> so, I mean,

123:08 | >> so amend my motion to after the class in

123:11 | the educational course to not install

123:13 | the new cameras until this has been

123:16 | resolved.

123:16 | >> Yes.

123:17 | >> Until after town meeting.

123:19 | >> After town meeting.

123:20 | >> That would

123:21 | >> Yeah, after town meeting. I go

123:23 | >> Well, no. Is that then we know what the

123:26 | >> actually not to

123:29 | >> your first motion was

123:31 | >> I was trying to appease.

123:33 | >> Yeah.

123:34 | >> Well, no, but that's

123:35 | >> you can you can pull it back. We can you

123:38 | can resend it and then resend it and

123:40 | then make the right decision.

123:41 | >> I I would I would be a little less

123:44 | definitive. I I would

123:47 | >> just hold the topic in a

123:50 | >> just hold it into a bayance for right

123:51 | now.

123:53 | >> Do it. table it.

123:55 | >> Make a motion to table the subject.

123:58 | >> Second.

124:00 | >> All in favor?

124:01 | >> I

124:01 | >> I

124:01 | >> I

124:04 | tableling

124:04 | >> tableabling the subject.

124:05 | >> I trust that the chief won't install it

124:07 | before the meeting.

124:12 | >> Can I just ask for planning purposes? Um

124:16 | does an evening meeting or daytime

124:18 | meeting what works better for the

124:19 | majority of people?

124:22 | one in the day and one at night.

124:24 | >> I can work on that.

124:26 | >> Some people that can get through it.

124:28 | >> I totally understand that. That's why

124:30 | I'm asking the question.

124:30 | >> Can the meeting be taped and played over

124:34 | and over again the same way

124:36 | like board meetings can be played over

124:38 | and over again?

124:39 | >> The only thing is people wouldn't have

124:41 | the opportunity to ask questions if I

124:42 | was able to block it if

124:44 | >> but there'll be enough other questions

124:46 | recorded.

124:46 | >> That's fair. Can they bring data of how

124:49 | this actually is helped like proving it

124:51 | rather than just sales pitches?

124:53 | >> I can

124:54 | actually even going on the internet you

124:57 | can't find it anywhere just

125:00 | chief of police over here. No offense

125:02 | but you know

125:05 | >> okay if we can if we can um take those

125:08 | conversations off the we could still be

125:12 | appreciate they're good questions and

125:14 | we'll come out with some dates. Who do

125:16 | we

125:17 | um disseminate the information to?

125:19 | Michelle, I'm assuming you know all

125:21 | these you have access to

125:25 | >> what would be the best way to do

125:28 | >> state.

125:31 | >> What we're going to do, we're probably

125:33 | going to have to limit it to the amount

125:34 | of people we can fit in this room.

125:36 | >> Why can't we use a larger space?

125:39 | >> Why can't we use school or any other

125:41 | other places?

125:42 | >> The IP address is what he was concerned

125:44 | with. How about we see the participation

125:48 | IP address for more? We do another one.

125:50 | >> The odds of doing the IP address here on

125:53 | the town network

125:55 | >> is one thing, but then we also have the

125:56 | recording capabilities here in Zoom and

125:58 | all that right in this room. The schools

126:00 | don't have that. You can't you can't do

126:02 | a presentation at town meetings.

126:03 | >> So like the library [snorts]

126:04 | meeting room, I don't know if I have a

126:06 | cell connection there. We definitely

126:08 | don't have recording capability there.

126:09 | Right.

126:10 | >> Upstairs. I don't think so.

126:19 | What' you say,

126:20 | >> Drew?

126:25 | >> Oh, in the deck server.

126:28 | >> If the IP address, why don't you look

126:30 | into that a little bit? Yeah.

126:33 | >> Computer.

126:35 | >> I really think education is the is the

126:37 | key. And there's still going to be some

126:38 | people that are going to believe what

126:40 | they've been believing for the last 90

126:43 | days and it's not due to that.

126:47 | But it but there are people that it will

126:49 | change.

126:53 | So, is there

127:00 | >> one we're going to

127:06 | >> Okay, gentlemen, you're

127:07 | >> done. Am I out of the lines yet?

127:10 | >> Thank you, Chief.

127:11 | >> Thank you.

127:12 | >> Um, chief chief police chief of police

127:14 | contract coming up. [laughter]

127:19 | >> I'll be grayer.

127:23 | What what do we have left?

127:25 | >> We have the town administrators report.

127:27 | >> All right. Beautiful updates.

127:32 | First of all, financial reporting. For

127:34 | the second year in a row, the town of

127:36 | Charlton has been awarded the government

127:38 | government finance officers association

127:40 | certificate of achievement for

127:42 | excellence in financial reporting.

127:44 | Ashley,

127:46 | >> great work. the queen.

127:49 | >> Make sure she got her flowers tonight.

127:52 | >> Excellent.

127:53 | >> All right. Uh, fire substation. We're

127:56 | nearing the completion of this fire

127:57 | substation project on Oxford Road.

127:59 | There's still a considerable amount of

128:00 | work to be done within the building in a

128:02 | very short time frame. And by very

128:04 | short, I mean like a week and a half.

128:06 | Uh, currently substantial completion is

128:08 | targeted for October 2nd. This week,

128:10 | just about all trades are wrapping up

128:12 | their work in anticipation of final

128:14 | balancing and testing of systems to be

128:16 | completed next week. Obviously, dealing

128:18 | with all those little snafoos that, you

128:20 | know, all these projects have. Uh, but

128:24 | once we reach the final completion,

128:25 | we'll start moving furniture and

128:27 | equipment into the building.

128:29 | >> That's awesome.

128:30 | >> And then, uh, master plan. So, the

128:32 | master planning committee has been

128:33 | meeting regularly to develop an um

128:36 | community outreach strategy in support

128:37 | of the master plan. On October 18th, the

128:40 | committee will be hosting a community

128:41 | meeting uh to help inform the

128:43 | development of the master plan. It'll be

128:45 | at Dexter Hall over at the library. Uh

128:48 | probably I believe it's going to be for

128:50 | six o'clock at night. So, we'll have

128:51 | additional information on the town

128:53 | website in advance of that meeting, but

128:55 | more to come. That's what I got.

128:57 | >> That's it.

128:58 | >> Thank you.

129:01 | Select board requests for future agenda

129:03 | items.

129:05 | >> Please say no.

129:10 | >> Non-binding, but please say no.

129:12 | >> Not binding.

129:15 | >> Okay.

129:16 | >> Okay. And then next meeting

129:17 | announcement,

129:19 | Dudley Charlton special election,

129:21 | September 29th, 2026,

129:23 | >> 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m. Note

129:26 | that different times, 12 to 8 at

129:28 | Heritage School. Next regular meeting of

129:30 | the select board will be October 13th,

129:32 | 2026,

129:34 | 6:30 p.m. right here. And the special

129:37 | town meeting is October 19th at 7 p.m.

129:40 | Charlton Middle School. And I would

129:42 | accept a motion to adjurnn.

129:44 | >> Motion to adjurnn.

129:45 | >> Second.

129:46 | >> All in favor?

129:47 | >> I.

129:47 | >> I.