2026-09-22 - Right-of-Way Use Ad Hoc Committee

00:02You're good.

00:04>> All right. I appreciate everyone

00:05gathering together for the ad hoc right

00:08of way use committee on Tuesday,

00:10September 22nd.

00:12And um

00:14uh

00:15we have a new iteration of an ordinance

00:19in front of us.

00:20I do want to kind of go through a little

00:22bit of the

00:24series of activities that have brought

00:26us here today.

00:28But I just would ask if there's a motion

00:30in the room for approval of the agenda

00:32that's in front of you.

00:33>> So moved.

00:34>> Second.

00:35>> All in favor, please say aye.

00:36>> Aye.

00:37>> Any opposed?

00:38Hearing none, motion carries. All right.

00:40And you then you of course you have

00:41minutes in front of you from the June

00:425th meeting. And so I'll entertain

00:44motions for those as well.

00:47>> So moved.

00:48>> Second.

00:49>> All in favor.

00:50>> Aye.

00:50>> Aye.

00:51>> Any opposed? All right. Minutes are

00:52approved. All right. So

00:55um I found in this policy making work

00:58that sometimes you have to take a few

00:59swings before you hit a home run out of

01:01the park. And

01:02this is the case here. Um you remember

01:05that several months ago we updated our

01:08ordinance pertaining to rights of ways

01:12or corridors.

01:13And the intent was to make it very clear

01:17that there were some behaviors that were

01:19not safe and healthy. And we wanted to

01:21make sure that we were to the greatest

01:23degree possible kind of using the law

01:25eliminating those behaviors.

01:28Um that language passed commission. And

01:31then after passage, you discovered that

01:33well,

01:34the reality of the language that

01:37was approved and that we have in place

01:38currently is that it was somewhat

01:41circumstantial whether or not somebody

01:44could be legally asked to sort of move

01:46off of of a sidewalk for example if

01:49someone was laying down on a sidewalk.

01:51Um

01:52under some circumstances, say on a very

01:55slow morning, you could have somebody on

01:57a sidewalk and somebody in a wheelchair

01:59could navigate around that person.

02:01On a somewhat busier day,

02:03um you might find that there was so much

02:05foot traffic on the sidewalk that that

02:07it wasn't

02:08uh

02:09possible to navigate around someone.

02:12So,

02:13uh when we discovered that there was

02:14this somewhat gray area in the

02:16ordinance, you know, we came back to the

02:18table um to try and kind of create a

02:22greater degree of certainty.

02:24And that was when this committee looked

02:27at a model ordinance that cities like

02:29Savannah and Gainesville and Rome and

02:32Atlanta had adopted. And of course that

02:34passed out of the committee and was in

02:36front of the full commission at our

02:38first Tuesday voting meeting. And of

02:41course that did not pass.

02:44Uh

02:45certainly that was a much broader

02:46ordinance. That dealt really with all

02:48Athens-Clarke County public lands, um

02:51rights of ways, corridors, sidewalks,

02:55bike trails, but also all of the remnant

02:57properties that are in Athens-Clarke

02:59County's inventory, of which there are

03:01many many many. We have some natural

03:03areas that are not parks, we have some

03:06sort of random verges, we have some

03:08areas that are single-family like we got

03:11all kinds of property in the

03:12Athens-Clarke County inventory. If we

03:14saw a spreadsheet of it, it would be

03:15many hundreds of properties.

03:17Um and so it it it certainly I think was

03:19the impression of lots of members of the

03:21public and those commissioners who voted

03:23against that version that that ordinance

03:25was overly broad and that it just

03:28addressed too much um and particularly

03:31in an environment where people are

03:33concerned about the very real

03:36limitations on number of places where

03:38folks who found themselves homeless you

03:40know,

03:41um people didn't want to um basically

03:44swing with too big a hammer, to put it

03:46in that way.

03:47So, um

03:50Courtney Davis, uh who has now moved on

03:52to our fine friends across Broad Street,

03:55um has done a great job

03:57more narrowly tailoring an ordinance.

04:00As you know, most of the kinds of

04:03complaints that we get are from business

04:05people or patrons of businesses who just

04:08say, "Listen, I'm trying to get my cup

04:09of coffee or I'm trying to

04:12uh sell my my uh skirts and dresses and

04:16it it's difficult when there are people

04:18splayed out on the sidewalk or uh on the

04:21bike lane." Um

04:23and so, the ordinance in front of you

04:26addresses corridors and really even

04:29tightens it to commercial corridors

04:31because that's where we've gotten kind

04:33of the bulk of concerns is people just

04:35trying to go get their cup of coffee in

04:37the morning or just trying to go pick up

04:39their mail or do all the things you do

04:41in a commercial setting.

04:43So, um this retains the general

04:47prohibition on ingress and egress from

04:50any place, right? In the same way that

04:51somebody can't park in front of a

04:53residential driveway um and and block

04:56you. You know, you also can't block

04:58somebody by having a person or series of

05:01people lay down in front of your

05:03graphic, right? So, so this retains that

05:06but also makes it explicit that you

05:09can't lie down on the sidewalk, on the

05:12trail, on the vehicular road bed, or on

05:15the bike lane in commercial corridors

05:17and it defines all of those. So, just

05:20want to kind of put in front of you what

05:21is here.

05:23Now, under the way it's written now, um

05:27the this would apply to all commercial

05:29corridors, commercial neighborhood,

05:30commercial office, commercial rural,

05:32commercial downtown, etc.

05:34Um

05:35and and it would

05:37implement it all kind of at once.

05:40A prospect that I'll just put out there

05:42is that one thing we could do in terms

05:44of implementation that the commission

05:46has done in a couple of contexts before

05:48is do some implementation immediately

05:51and then delay some implementation by

05:53some measure of time, 6 months or 12

05:55months. And so an option that you could

05:57have is to say, you know, we want to go

05:59ahead and impose the corridor

06:01restriction on commercial downtown right

06:03now,

06:04give PD some time and advantage our

06:07partners like that

06:08to kind of get their feet wet and then

06:11say, "Hey, 12 months from now it's going

06:13to go live in other commercial

06:15>> commercial homeless

06:15>> So so that's the one opportunity that

06:17I'll I'll kind of put in front of you

06:18that's sort of a a variation on the

06:21subject.

06:22Um I'm going to stop talking, but but I

06:24also want to kind of turn it over to

06:25Ilka because one of the things that

06:28we're doing in concert at the same time

06:30is bringing some new resources to bear

06:33kind of around homeless service

06:34provisions because of course this

06:36conversation around corridors has been

06:38conjoined with all of the conversations

06:40that we've had as community members and

06:41as public servants around homeless

06:44services. So Ilka, can you say

06:46something?

06:46>> We want to do a pilot program.

06:48Regardless of our pilot

06:50>> Hold on.

06:51>> I don't think that's something we want

06:52to

06:52>> Well, so

06:53this is really I mean this is an

06:54ordinance update. And so

06:57if you choose the sort of two-step

06:59version where it goes live in commercial

07:02downtown immediately and then goes live

07:0512 months from now in commercial

07:06neighborhood, commercial office, etc.,

07:09you could frame that as a pilot.

07:11>> And we have said because it would be to

07:13your point, it gives opportunity

07:15to get the other service providers.

07:17>> Right. Right. And

07:18>> And what Ilka has been talking to get

07:20them in place. Now I think

07:25I mean, you know, his one of his

07:26colleagues and stuff to try to make sure

07:28that they understand that you know we

07:31That's the solution that we're trying to

07:33bring to the table.

07:34to build.

07:35Get this going and see how that works.

07:38And then maybe 6 months to a year we can

07:40say, "Okay, we're going full

07:43that was perfect

07:45we just pretend

07:46>> So that's what basically you you were

07:47suggesting there and that might I mean

07:49I'm I'm kind of with you in terms of

07:51especially if the service providers

07:53because I I hate um

07:56uh

07:57putting something in that's broader and

07:59then not being able to follow through on

08:01it as well in terms of having services.

08:05I mean there's people on the east side

08:06of contact and but if there's not this

08:08whole system that

08:10>> we're about to hear about so I guess we

08:11should hear about that first.

08:12>> Okay, I got a couple um couple that I'll

08:15start off with that y'all have sort of

08:17mentioned and um Deputy Chief Kelly

08:19please chime in as well cuz you are the

08:22expert on some of these but um you know

08:24there are four ACC PD co-responder units

08:28um and one will be redeployed to

08:31downtown beginning in October. So that

08:33will be very helpful. The co-responder

08:36units uh are police officers that are

08:38joined with social workers?

08:40>> It's a clinic clinical social worker uh

08:42through Advantage.

08:44>> Okay. So one of those teams will be

08:46deployed um downtown and will work out

08:49of the downtown station.

08:51Um so they'll provide outreach, crisis

08:54interventions, um be able to meet

08:56people's needs and that'll be

08:57coordinated with local businesses and

08:59then those local services providers that

09:01you mentioned um the homeless coalition,

09:04Advantage Behavioral Health, some of the

09:06other groups. Um second was

09:10engagement that'll be coordinated also

09:12through PD, local businesses, the

09:14Downtown Development Authority which um

09:17will be expanding those outreach

09:19services to folks most specifically in

09:21downtown. Do you want to talk a little

09:23bit about that piece?

09:24>> Yeah, so a lot of that's what we're

09:25already doing. We already are connected

09:27in with those resources really well. We

09:29would expand that specifically to the

09:31downtown area and then incorporate the

09:34business owners and our partners

09:35downtown a little bit deeper than what

09:37we're doing now. It really focuses it in

09:39more on this particular district and and

09:42area. So,

09:44>> I think I might have Can we go over that

09:46one again because I think I might have

09:47just spaced out for a half second, but

09:49the first one was stationing the

09:51co-responder team.

09:52>> Yeah.

09:53>> Yeah, one of the four will be stationed

09:54downtown. It'll work out of the um

09:57>> Yeah.

09:58>> police station that's right here at the

09:59bottom of the parking deck. So, we'll be

10:01right in the middle of downtown and be

10:03able to um go out and engage with folks.

10:05And then the second is helping to

10:08coordinate when those folks are out

10:10talking with people, coordinating with

10:12uh other service providers like

10:14Advantage, like the Homeless Coalition,

10:17um and other homeless services groups

10:20downtown.

10:21>> Yeah, and Commissioner Myers, as I was

10:22just pointing out, we're already engaged

10:23with a lot of those groups anyway. It

10:25would just be a little more focused to

10:26this area. So, we would leverage those

10:28partners that we already have and build

10:30on them.

10:31>> Yeah, is is this Is there a third thing

10:33or something?

10:34>> Yes, it is.

10:35>> I'm just trying to figure out Evan Mills

10:36shared something with me uh like a draft

10:38or something and I'm trying to figure

10:40out where if that was this or the next

10:42one.

10:42>> So, the third is um

10:44involves the affordable housing fund, um

10:47a pledge a pledge of up to a million

10:49dollars for the purposes of partnering

10:51with um one or more of the service

10:53providers to acquire

10:56uh property {slash} building to provide

10:59temporary emergency supportive housing

11:02um with an emphasis on serving folks who

11:04are who are currently making their home

11:06downtown

11:07um and sleeping outside in downtown. So,

11:09that would um

11:11kind of dovetail well with the

11:12resolution that the mayor and

11:14commissioner that y'all have already

11:16approved regarding homelessness.

11:19>> Thanks, Evan.

11:20>> Okay, so then following up on that that

11:22second point probably is

11:25what Evan shared talked with me like

11:28really a coordination with the where is

11:31all the service providers, what their

11:33roles are, what they could off offer,

11:36and how that would be used to all those

11:38connections.

11:40That coordination would be used to help

11:42with

11:43um the unhoused downtown.

11:46>> That's right.

11:47>> Okay.

11:49And then the million dollars, that's

11:54that would be How would that How would

11:56that

11:56>> We would be directing as a body that

12:00that amount of money would be designated

12:01from our housing funds and afford the

12:03purpose of acquisition or

12:07preparation of land and for the for the

12:08homeless.

12:09>> Okay, but that's for the land.

12:11>> Yes.

12:12>> And

12:12>> Well, in terms of kind of the the sort

12:14of the way the public dollars can be

12:15spent, you can

12:17you know, you can either partner with an

12:18entity that's another public sector

12:20entity like the housing authority. And

12:23and so you could grant them the dollars

12:25or you could do a competitive bid in the

12:27way that we've sometimes done.

12:28>> Right, right. But the the competitive

12:30bid would be for

12:33I think I guess it's what I'm thinking

12:36is is that we're talking about for the

12:37purchase of the land or if it was

12:40competitive bill bill I mean, a million

12:42dollars, as we know, doesn't go as far

12:44as we wish it would. But for the land

12:48and the services Is that all to be

12:50decided how that's going to

12:52>> That would be a later decision. But but

12:54we'd basically be fencing off those

12:56funds for that purpose.

12:58>> Okay.

12:59And um

13:00>> And I make it real clear to y'all that

13:02they have to be to me

13:04have to be service providers to provide

13:07those particular services to whoever

13:09we're going to

13:10I mean, that's that's going to be clear

13:11to the group.

13:13Um as we move forward in this process,

13:16that whoever we

13:17to Mayor's point, that we will

13:20RP or we designate the entity that they,

13:23you know,

13:24sort of do all this cuz again, we're not

13:26in the we're not equipped

13:29to run the run the run that on

13:31>> Yeah, we're going to be getting into the

13:32service provision space.

13:33>> Exactly.

13:34>> Right.

13:35>> Yeah, I just want to be clear though

13:37that whoever we that sort of providing

13:39is equipped to do that.

13:41>> Yeah, and I hope we've used our um

13:44we use our experience and knowledge that

13:47we learned from the operation of the uh

13:52>> We got King County.

13:53>> which had its positive, and it helped in

13:56some ways, but then there in terms of

13:58how we roll that out.

14:01Um

14:02Is there a timeline for that?

14:05>> So,

14:06I think you you probably need to hear

14:07from Andrew who's been staffing that

14:10group.

14:11>> Okay.

14:13>> There would certainly be a management

14:15action returning to the commission for

14:18more detail.

14:19>> And and and that's which is that's the

14:21resolution.

14:22>> He he Yes, sir.

14:26Which I have not been a part of. Can

14:27barely even talk about that.

14:29>> I know certainly indeed one of those

14:30things individually, but I haven't been

14:32attending.

14:32>> Yes, I did. I have I personally have not

14:34been a part of. I want to hear what

14:35actually going to come out of that which

14:37we must be

14:38you know, I was just trying to be

14:40involved in the lines of what's going to

14:42come out of that [laughter]

14:43as we move forward.

14:44>> And and to on the on the number

14:48on the one and two,

14:51do we have anything in

14:54do we have anything in writing on that

14:58before we get to this resolut- or as we

15:02get to this resolution?

15:04>> I think we can. I can follow up.

15:06>> the main interest indicated to me that

15:07he's going to have a memorandum

15:09outlining that.

15:11>> Can I ask a question about this?

15:13This is actually this is probably a

15:14legal thing here. The thing that the one

15:17thing I'm looking at here and I'm just

15:18wondering about

15:20was

15:22uh so I looked at it yesterday, I saw

15:24the commercial zone, but I didn't really

15:26focus in on the transportation corridor.

15:29So, let's see.

15:31It you know, on the first page there's

15:32the definition of the commercial zone.

15:35The camp

15:38Now, this is this is the ordinance that

15:39we already had in place.

15:41>> This is Yeah, this is a mark up of

15:4335.23.

15:44>> Yes.

15:44>> But the commercial zone was added.

15:47But then also the transportation

15:48corridor was added. So, my legal

15:51question is

15:53why did we Why wasn't it just said What

15:56What's the difference between

15:58what's written here versus no person

16:00shall camp in a commercial zone?

16:05So, why did we add Why did we narrow it

16:07to transportation corridor? I have or

16:11I mean, how does that affect what's

16:14He must have done that for some legal

16:16reason to make it easier or harder

16:19easier to enforce better to enforce the

16:22fear or something or other, right?

16:24>> I can I can start

16:25>> Yeah, yeah. Also, you can start with the

16:27Courtney Davis was the main attorney.

16:29>> So, we can in working on drafting this

16:31with Courtney,

16:33you know, it was evident from the

16:35conversation

16:36at the August voting meeting that that

16:38was very broad.

16:39>> Mhm.

16:40>> It was also clear from just the series

16:43of concerns that we received that it

16:46really is about those places where

16:48people are moving. People are moving

16:50their feet to the shop. People are

16:52moving their bikes to get to work.

16:54People are moving their cars to get

16:55places. And so, we sort of tailored it

16:58to that. So, that's what introduced the

17:00transportation corridor piece.

17:02>> Right. And this is that's a public part.

17:04So, let's say you have a business that

17:07has that's on a transportation corridor

17:11and has parking lot in the back that's

17:12private that's already

17:14that's private.

17:15>> Right.

17:16>> So,

17:19is there much pub-

17:21public prop- is there any

17:23Are there any examples of public

17:25property that are

17:28in a commercial zone that are not in a

17:30transportation corridor?

17:34>> There may be some remnant parcels that

17:36Athens-Clarke County owns.

17:38Um well, I mean, a good example, right?

17:40So, we were gifted some property

17:43um by property owners several years ago

17:45uh past the mall. That's That's some

17:47property we own that's adjacent to a

17:49transportation corridor, but it wouldn't

17:51be covered by this.

17:54>> So, it So, it does in that sense. The

17:55other thing was the the number one

18:00was and I'm trying to

18:02the number one on page two that's in

18:04gray

18:05No person shall interfere with ingress.

18:09Wasn't that in the previous version of

18:11the right or I mean, the one that we

18:12passed in June? The previous version the

18:15right

18:16>> the right

18:16>> Yeah, if you look at subsection

18:17>> Well, this is the current one.

18:19>> I have a copy of the previously supposed

18:21edited version.

18:22>> No, I mean, the cur- the one we voted on

18:24that was passed in June.

18:26>> This is the most current or whatever it

18:28was.

18:28>> Yeah, if you look at subsection B of our

18:30current code, that's where the that

18:32language appears.

18:34>> Okay.

18:35>> About interfering with the ingress and

18:37egress.

18:38>> Yeah, prohibited acts.

18:41Building interfere. Oh, so you mean

18:45We already had that and basically what

18:47we're

18:49did was you pulled it out into a one and

18:51a two. So, the the the phrase itself is

18:54not That was already in there. Number

18:56>> That is not a new language.

18:57>> That's not new language. It's new

18:59formatting.

18:59>> Correct.

19:00>> Okay. And then I think I think that's

19:02the only

19:03question I had about this. Was there any

19:05And the camp and camping is what we

19:07added in and already

19:10voted on in August, right?

19:12>> We land.

19:13>> Yes, but it it was not approved. The

19:15camping is Right, right. It was not

19:17approved. So, this is what we're adding

19:19What we're adding in this time is the

19:21commercial zone and the transportation

19:24corridor.

19:24>> So, you're connecting camping to this

19:26core.

19:26>> Right, right. And then number two, I

19:28just want to get the language cuz I

19:29wasn't I mean, it didn't have the time

19:32like I wanted to know which language was

19:34there in August and which wasn't. So,

19:36um the new stuff is the commercial

19:39zones.

19:41>> Everything's [clears throat] in gray.

19:42>> Well, not the camp camping Oh, camping

19:45was that was there in August that we

19:47voted on. So, that's This is I want to

19:49know what's new since August. And so,

19:52the number two there is just a

19:54formatting thing. It's nothing

19:55substantive. So, that's helpful.

20:01>> I think that's what you're Yeah, so why

20:02are just commercial zones? So, um I'm

20:06trying to think about the consequences.

20:07So,

20:08um

20:11um

20:12all the population moving out to

20:15Hancock industrial way.

20:17Right? Those are

20:20So, is that only home property?

20:22>> No, that's all

20:23recycling.

20:24>> There's some in there's certainly lots

20:25of private. But just sort of given that

20:28most of the concerns that I've received

20:31have been adjacent to commercial

20:32businesses. Cer- certainly the bulk

20:34downtown, but but also some in Carol's

20:36district and some in in in the extra

20:39district straight along Atlanta Highway

20:43near some grocery stores and things like

20:45that. So, it's kind of trying to tailor

20:48this to where the concern areas have

20:50been rather than being kind of getting

20:52back to you that overly broad area that

20:54that caused some

20:56discontent in August.

20:58>> So, I don't And I don't know if you were

21:00here you dismissed this very beginning

21:02part where we were talking about the

21:04Well, we we were talking about the

21:05services, but Kelly also brought the

21:07idea of doing this in two stages and

21:10then basically adding downtown first to

21:13make sure that we roll it out in a

21:15in a way where we actually see if we can

21:18do this well, and also working with this

21:20new

21:21team uh coordinated team structure that

21:26the police department and other um

21:29service providers are working on

21:30together. And I believe they were all

21:32going to make like MOUs together.

21:35No, I think

21:35>> Well, I think this this is uh just a

21:37focused um action as far as the existing

21:40teams that we have. We're taking what we

21:42have. An MOU already exists, and we're

21:44just pointing it toward a specific area.

21:47>> So, what would come out in that um memo

21:50from the pilot

21:53>> Okay.

21:55>> Six months old, yeah, let me explain

21:57that.

21:57>> So, I say I think that I think in terms

21:59of doing it in a tiered way where we try

22:03that downtown with this new system

22:06allows us to do it, see if we can do it

22:09in this

22:10clear

22:11a compassionate way where we're actually

22:13are really providing services

22:16and using coordinating with all the

22:18service providers and

22:21so I

22:22that that seems good. I mean, I'm still

22:24a little

22:26I don't know if the million dollars will

22:28Well, I'm worried that

22:30all of that money

22:32Yeah, no, I think it's yeah, I think

22:34that the first step of having doing

22:36something and saying yes, we're going to

22:37do something with this first. We just

22:39have to make sure we do it.

22:40>> Right.

22:40>> We learn our lessons and and do some

22:42things.

22:43Um

22:45>> Do I ask a question?

22:49Uh does panhandling the panhandling

22:52piece, for example,

22:54is the panhandling still the cover under

22:56this?

22:58>> So, panhandling because it's a

23:00constitutionally protected act. We're

23:01first to limit that implications.

23:03>> You know, you you you've got these kind

23:04of First Amendment implications. And

23:06then as recently as just last year, you

23:09know, the I mean just to kind of put it

23:11plainly, the the fairly conservative

23:13appellate court in this district struck

23:15down Alabama's panhandling ordinance.

23:18So, you know, we're just in a legal

23:20environment where um you know, flying

23:23flag is as you sometimes say, you know,

23:25has been perceived by the courts again

23:27and again, I mean dozens of times, as a

23:30legal activity.

23:31>> Well, I'm asking though.

23:34>> That's a different ordinance.

23:35>> I hear you though. So,

23:40how do we distinguish then with our

23:42special with our officers? Somebody will

23:44sit in all day

23:46signing.

23:48I mean not camping and not doing those

23:49other stuff.

23:51And still sort of I think I think I

23:53think that was something we tried to do

23:54with one of those boys.

23:56Somebody said taking up a space all day.

24:00Who knows signing. So, how do we do we

24:01die deal with that?

24:03>> So, I I mean I I think that illustrates

24:05the limit of the legal framework, right?

24:07So, you know, unless we're going to

24:10have a constitutional amendment that

24:13gets passed by

24:15requisite number of states or

24:18>> I'm just saying about the

24:19>> But I think that even I'm wondering what

24:20I think what you're might be asking is

24:22does this and this is the Austin

24:24question here, does the in section a

24:27little bit that we're looking at 3523

24:30the interference with sidewalks and the

24:32interference with ingress and egress and

24:34sidewalks, is there

24:38Like if I'm

24:39I can't lie on the sidewalk completely

24:42blocking it and hold up a panhandling

24:44sign.

24:45This is an extreme case, but you know,

24:47it says please, you know, give me some

24:49money and say, "Oh, it's okay for me to

24:51lie down because I have this sign."

24:54Right? That Which

24:56>> Sure, sure, that's a good example. And

24:58so, I think the question is in that

25:00scenario, is the person interfering with

25:02the ingress and egress of a building or

25:04private property or public area?

25:06>> So so, if you have a sign

25:08and you are interfering, sitting there

25:10all day, and you're interfering with

25:12this, then you can be cited for this

25:15violation.

25:16>> Yes, that's correct.

25:17>> Right. That's what you'd be. So, it

25:18doesn't it doesn't free you up. So, you

25:25>> People are sitting in front of

25:26businesses with the signs. So, that's

25:28why I'm saying how would that business

25:30owner

25:31You know, to your point, Mayor, okay?

25:33That's That's where the law runs into

25:35the hole in this.

25:36Then we got this ordinance in place. So,

25:38I don't know what else to be comfortable

25:39>> No, that's fair. So, under the First

25:41Amendment, the government can impose

25:43what's called reasonable time, place,

25:44and manner restrictions.

25:46>> Okay.

25:46>> And so, we could, you know,

25:48So, so, what how that translates to to

25:50common language is you you know, you can

25:52still hold your sign there under the

25:54First Amendment. But but we can regulate

25:57the manner in which you do that. You

25:58cannot block ingress and egress to a

26:01building to do that, but you can move

26:03further down the sidewalk and as long as

26:05you're not in violation of the

26:06ordinance.

26:07>> Deputy Chief Kelly, I I don't I don't

26:08want to lead you too much, but I would

26:10have to imagine that just in terms of

26:12practical engagement,

26:15somebody was splayed out on the sidewalk

26:17and happened to have a sign,

26:20would an officer direct that person to

26:21say, "Hey, you you you can sit on the

26:23bench with your sign. You stand with

26:25your sign, but but you can't splay out

26:27on the sidewalk because you're going to

26:28disrupt that area."

26:29>> Right. So, to your point and to to what

26:31Austin is saying, if we respond to a

26:33call like that, we're going to be

26:35looking at whether or not there's a

26:37violation of this more so than the sign.

26:40So, what is the environment? What are

26:41they doing? Where are they with the

26:43sign? It's

26:44almost less about the sign and more

26:46about is there if there's a a violation

26:48of this

26:50if this was put in place. So, that's how

26:52we would approach it.

26:53>> So, the So, in your saying is there's

26:54someone sitting downtown

26:57leaning against the wall a sign like

27:00Yeah. Feet away from the entrance to

27:01here in the downtown with a sign and

27:04sitting there with their legs crossed,

27:06you know, so they're not blocking the

27:08whole sidewalk. You don't have any

27:10There's nothing in here that can say,

27:12"Hey, you can't do that." You could be

27:13sitting there all day.

27:14>> Right.

27:16>> That's another thing.

27:16>> Yes, yeah. I think that's what it has to

27:18me.

27:19It has to be a case And that could be a

27:20conflict of our business zone. So, they

27:22get bowed I hear you, man.

27:23>> There's no right away like you got a

27:25business like

27:28you know, your business is there and the

27:29sidewalk's there. You don't have like a

27:321-ft right away.

27:34>> Well, there are some businesses uh it

27:36varies through the downtown areas

27:37whether or not the footprint of that

27:39business expands out into the sidewalk.

27:41That is really kind of a case-by-case.

27:44>> Oh, interesting.

27:44>> Some Some have it uh right up to the uh

27:47edge of the sidewalk and some have it

27:49out and we would have to look at that

27:51and determine whether or not there was,

27:53you know, a case of criminal trespass or

27:55something occurring in those

27:56circumstances, but that's very business

27:58specific.

27:59>> Okay.

28:00What would we need to add to this

28:03to have it

28:05apply to the downtown and have it then

28:08come back after a year or two?

28:11>> Yeah, I think we would um need to have

28:13some express language in the ordinance

28:15that it talks about when it becomes

28:17effective because under the charter um

28:20like let's say this passes out of

28:21committee, it goes to the full mayor for

28:23his

28:23the mayor signs it. Under Under the

28:25charter, the ordinance becomes, you

28:26know, um effective upon the mayor

28:28signing the charter. So, so unless

28:30there's some provision in here that

28:31says, you know,

28:33and and the attorney's office can help

28:34work something like this, but just, you

28:36know, um

28:38certain portions of this will not become

28:40effective until at least certain, you

28:42know,

28:42>> It It is Could you draft language that

28:44would have it um become effective upon

28:46my signature in commercial downtown in

28:4912 months hence for the other commercial

28:51quarters.

28:53>> Sure, we actually we actually

28:55You want to do 60 months?

28:57>> Or could you just roll it out

28:59in its entirety and we just we can

29:01review in a year?

29:03>> Review?

29:04>> Review it. And come back in with what's

29:06the data.

29:07>> I mean, I'm more

29:09just saying, I'm more concerned about

29:11seeing that it's done effectively. So,

29:13there's a lot of, you know, like I have

29:15people, you know, we're also going to be

29:17putting this cane downtown. So, there'll

29:19be people there, you know, there's a,

29:21you know, a one of the people, my

29:23constituents, who's like, you know, why

29:25can't there be someone there? Uh, you

29:27made this rule now. Well,

29:29we also have to make sure that we have

29:31our police able to, you can't have

29:34everyone every place. So, you want to

29:35make sure that you're not setting up a

29:37rule that people are saying, "You made

29:39this rule, and now you're not doing

29:40anything." So, I'd like to see that the

29:43rule and the service is provided

29:46makes sense.

29:47>> I think I told the group that we roll it

29:49out, make sure

29:51we see if it's successful

29:53in 6 months after we

29:55come back and review the state.

29:57>> [clears throat]

29:57>> We need to

29:59>> But

30:00>> So,

30:01how long do we get time? Maybe so build

30:03or maybe manage.

30:05We can look at whether some good things

30:06we've done, some things that have been

30:08successful.

30:09And then we can build on there with all

30:11of the the the all providers may be

30:13involved at that particular time. They

30:15give a little bit of an idea then then

30:16then explain it. Give our officers a

30:18chance to come back to us and say, "Hey,

30:19this one has worked." Half time work.

30:22And give a little bit of an idea and

30:23discuss. So, I think sometimes we do

30:25have to go we do try to do everything.

30:27We will ask for that. And sometimes we

30:29fail about that. And we roll it out like

30:31that, then we'll be a lot more

30:33successful as we move forward.

30:35>> That's very helpful to us. That's a

30:36crawl

30:37walk run approach, and it it helps us to

30:40assess it on a smaller scale.

30:42We did it. So.

30:44>> I would also like I mean I that

30:48understanding among the service

30:50providers in that memo from the the from

30:54the manager's office. I need to see that

30:56in writing. I want to make this really

30:58clear here that if I vote for this year

31:01to go out that I'm not I want to see

31:03that other efforts in writing before I

31:06will support this.

31:07>> In the MOU.

31:09>> That what we talked about was capital

31:10>> Well, the efforts that were that we were

31:12just shared. I want to see it in writing

31:14so that it's not

31:16and the two the second thing as well the

31:18because I already saw a draft of it so

31:20they know there's something out there.

31:22So, I want to I mean I don't know how

31:24that's

31:25I want to know that's that's really

31:26going to happen and this coordination

31:29with the

31:30this because it's very clearly defined

31:33who would do things and how they reach

31:34out and they find a place. There was

31:36even a something in that that said if

31:38someone you know if there was not any

31:40space they could find do something or

31:41other. So, I want to see what's laid out

31:44there.

31:45Um in

31:46>> Exactly what you're saying there.

31:48Um

31:49So, a a motion could be to

31:53pass this with the proviso that

31:56commercial downtown implements

31:58immediately, other commercial quarters

32:00implement in 6 months, and we direct the

32:03manager's office to prepare a memo

32:05concurrent with this.

32:08>> Right, come out of this committee

32:10>> right now. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:13>> So moved.

32:14>> Okay, hold on. Commercial quarters

32:16Sorry, downtown immediately.

32:18>> On the mayor's signature,

32:20they'll be effective in downtown

32:22commercial zones.

32:26>> 6 months and 6 months in other

32:28commercial zones.

32:29>> Yeah,

32:30it was a good

32:32>> And direct the manager's office to

32:34deliver a memo to the commission

32:36concurrent with

32:40>> Right, concurrent with the

32:42>> Gordon's language on the agenda.

32:44>> On the agenda. What about

32:45[clears throat] the um

32:47What's going on with the the million

32:48dollars uh

32:49>> So you would get a subsequent action to

32:53say, "All right, we fenced off this

32:54million dollars. Here is now how the

32:57manager's office is recommending

32:59delivery of that money."

33:01>> And can we get that at that on and get

33:03that within by the end of the year?

33:07>> 6 months.

33:08>> No, get the I mean get the beginning of

33:10it, right?

33:11>> 30 days, excuse me.

33:12>> Well, I think well, I think Harold and I

33:14I'm just thinking about I don't

33:16>> Yeah.

33:16>> I think I I want to speak to the mayor,

33:18but

33:20we have to vote as a body to

33:23okay the million dollars.

33:24>> Right, right, right.

33:25>> And we'll figure out later how it's

33:26going what's going to happen. I mean, I

33:27don't

33:27>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I just

33:29need to get it get it on to the

33:31so that it

33:33Well, I would I guess it's it's going to

33:34happen, you know, to get it on to the

33:36agenda, to get it into words, so that I

33:40I mean, is it going to be waiting? Is

33:41that million dollars waiting till next

33:42June?

33:43>> It's what we don't know. That's that's

33:44the thing. That's I think I think that's

33:47that's the thing.

33:47>> I don't I don't just after it's passed

33:50in the first in cabinet. It's It's the

33:52last time that we can take next year.

33:54>> Right, that's right.

33:57>> We're going to do something to do with

33:58that.

33:58>> Right.

33:59>> It's the last time we allocate

34:01about

34:02the money that's going to be spent. And

34:04we got the right service was matter.

34:08And do what we are asking them to do to

34:10help our homeless population and help

34:12this community out. What will be

34:15>> Right, right. Is Is that something that

34:17would be in the memo I mean, will will

34:21Bob be I mean, that's coming out of the

34:23subcommittee. Will that be something

34:24referenced in

34:26in the memo that's coming from Bob?

34:29>> I can ask him to do that.

34:30>> Yeah, because that would be helpful as

34:32well.

34:33>> I'm talking to the mayor's point.

34:35>> if we take that

34:37for all of the we're doing for

34:39P

34:40>> [clears throat]

34:40>> from our street and say that which which

34:42we're going

34:42>> Right. Right. Right.

34:43>> with specifics about how that million

34:45dollars is going to be spent, what's

34:46going to happen is it's going to be the

34:48uh purchase plan or a piece of paper

34:51somewhere.

34:52>> And and to be honest with the

34:53implementation of this, whatever happens

34:55with the um

34:57the million dollars, that's not going to

34:59happen

35:00>> That's a lie.

35:01>> overnight. That's not going to happen.

35:03Yeah, that's not going to That's not

35:04going to be happening probably till, you

35:06know, if you're going to be lucky if it

35:08happens.

35:08But, yeah, sometimes. So,

35:11um

35:12Yeah, specifics.

35:14>> We're talking about how we designated

35:15the release of million dollars. We just

35:16don't know.

35:17>> Right. But, we haven't officially done

35:19that. We just, you know,

35:21voted on that or it hasn't been

35:22presented in writing.

35:25>> But, that'll be part of the

35:26administrator recommendation.

35:28>> Okay.

35:28>> Yes.

35:31>> That you're talking about in this in

35:32this motion?

35:35>> That will be part of the memo.

35:37>> Okay. Okay, that's what I was asking.

35:39Okay, that's what I wasn't sure if that

35:40was going to be in there. Okay.

35:43I'm good.

35:44>> All right. So, we got a motion from

35:45Cara.

35:45>> Second.

35:48>> Any more discussion?

35:50All in favor, please say aye.

35:52>> Aye.

35:54>> Any opposed?

35:55Hearing none, motion carries.

35:57All right. Any other business?

36:00>> [snorts]

36:02>> All right. Motion to adjourn?

36:03>> So moved.

36:05>> All right. Got a motion to adjourn. All

36:06in favor, say

36:07>> Aye.

36:08>> All right. Thanks, everybody.

36:09>> Thank you, Bench.

36:10>> Thank you.