2026-09-15 - Mayor and Commission Special Called Session

00:10All

00:25right, everyone. So glad that you've

00:27decided to join us here at the Athens,

00:29clar county city hall tonight, Tuesday,

00:31September 15th, 2026. Uh we are gathered

00:34with the Athens clar county commission

00:36and myself the mayor uh for two

00:38gatherings tonight. Um we have a very

00:41brief special called session uh because

00:43there are a couple of items that we have

00:44to act on immediately. And then we also

00:47have our regularly scheduled agenda

00:49setting session for items that will be

00:51voted upon the first Tuesday of October,

00:53October 6th. Um so I'm going to go ahead

00:57and ask uh Clerk Howard to call a roll

00:59for us.

01:00>> Davenport

01:01>> here.

01:01>> Link

01:02>> here. Taylor

01:03>> here.

01:04>> Wright

01:04>> present.

01:05>> Fisher

01:05>> here.

01:06>> Johnson

01:07>> here.

01:07>> Co Pepper

01:08>> here.

01:09>> Meyers

01:09>> here.

01:10>> Thornton.

01:11>> Hamby

01:12>> here.

01:13>> We have a quorum.

01:14>> All right. Thank you, madam clerk. And

01:15I'll uh read the civility pledge

01:17provided to us by the Georgia Municipal

01:18Association. That indicates that the way

01:21we govern ourselves is often as

01:22important as the positions we take. That

01:24our collective decisions will be better

01:25when different views have had the

01:27opportunity to be fully vetted and

01:29considered. that all people have the

01:30right to be treated with respect,

01:32courtesy, and openness, that we value

01:34all input and commit to conduct

01:36ourselves at all times with civility and

01:38courtesy to each other. Uh so, uh we

01:40just have a single item that requires

01:42action tonight. Um and so now is the

01:45time for public input on that item. Um

01:47we're going to have several public input

01:49opportunities during the agenda setting

01:50session and they'll all follow

01:52effectively the same format. uh when it

01:54is time for public input on a set of

01:56items or an individual item. In the case

01:58of our planning and zoning matters,

02:00there will be a threeminut opportunity

02:02on that item for the public, you see a

02:04light in front of clerk Howard, it will

02:06begin green when you provide your name

02:08in place of residence. And at that

02:10point, you'll have three minutes to

02:11provide input. It will turn yellow when

02:13you have 30 seconds to rema remaining

02:15and then it will turn red when your

02:17three minutes is concluded. And I will

02:19thank you for your time with us. So, uh,

02:21with that said, um, I do need, um, to

02:25see if there's any public input on the

02:28single item that we have for new

02:29business tonight on a special called

02:31session, which is, uh, the funding

02:34request for inmate medical needs. Is

02:37there anyone to speak on that item

02:39tonight?

02:41>> I'd make a motion to approve, mayor.

02:43>> Uh, actually, uh, um, can you make a

02:45motion first that we suspend the rules?

02:47>> I'll make that motion, too, and then

02:49I'll follow it up. Oh, I guess we got a

02:51vote.

02:52>> Is there a second on suspension of

02:53rules?

02:53>> Second.

02:54>> All right, we have a second on

02:55suspension of rules because we have an

02:56item of new business. All in favor of

02:58suspending the rules for this item,

02:59please say I.

03:01>> Any opposed? All right, hearing none.

03:03Motion carries. All right. And uh so

03:05again, we have an inmate funding request

03:07for $430,000.

03:10>> Motion to approve. Mayor,

03:11>> motion for approval from Commissioner

03:12Hamby. Is there a second? Second.

03:14>> Second from Commissioner Meyers. Is

03:16there an ordinance associated with this?

03:17Attorney Drake,

03:20let me check, Mr. Mayor.

03:34While this is a very small piece of your

03:36$450 million that we'll spend this year,

03:39it's still an important piece, and so we

03:41want to go ahead and make sure we do

03:42everything appropriately.

03:50An ordinance to amend the FY 2026

03:52operating capital budget for Athens,

03:54Clark County, Georgia, so provide

03:55funding to the sheriff's office for

03:57expenses related to cost and providing

03:59inmate medical services and for other

04:00purposes.

04:01>> Thank you, Attorney Drake. I appreciate

04:03that. Uh Commissioner Hamby, uh

04:05following your motion, any remarks?

04:06>> No, no, just something we need to do.

04:08>> Commissioner Myers. Yeah, just uh

04:10quickly I want to thank uh Sheriff

04:12Williams for uh getting some responses

04:15to questions I asked. Um part of this

04:20increase uh is because of the number of

04:23inmates that we have is above what was

04:25forecasted. Um and medical expenses and

04:29bills coming in late. And so I just

04:31wanted to thank the sheriff for getting

04:32us that information. And uh you know

04:35perhaps in another time uh following up

04:38uh because it you know I did have that

04:41one question about the penalties for the

04:44insurance company Medicico which

04:46actually helps the price go down low but

04:49they're only penalties because of

04:50services not being um given seemingly

04:54given in the timely uh amount the timely

04:59time that they're supposed to be given

05:01in. So, um, you know, these are things

05:03we can continue to look in, but right

05:05now, I'm I'm happy to support this as

05:07we, uh, help the sheriff, uh, pay the

05:10bills from last year.

05:11>> All right. Uh, input from any other

05:13member of the body.

05:16All right. Seeing none, we have a motion

05:17on the floor from Commissioner Ham and a

05:19second from Commissioner Myers. All in

05:20favor, please say I. I.

05:22>> Any [clears throat] opposed?

05:24>> Hearing none. Motion carries. Uh, all

05:26right. Uh, only other thing that I need

05:27to do is I need to read into the record

05:30that I've reappointed Beth Higgins to an

05:32additional term on the audit committee.

05:34So, um, glad that she's going to

05:36continue as a member of the body along

05:38with Commissioners Fischer and

05:39Commissioners Meyers. All right. I do

05:41need a motion to adjurnn at this point.

05:42>> So, move

05:44second.

05:45>> All right. I've got a motion from

05:46Commissioner Taylor, second from

05:48Commissioner Hamby. All in favor, please

05:49say I.

05:50>> Any opposed? Right. Hearing none. Motion

05:53carries. All right. We are going to sail

05:56right into our agenda setting meeting.

05:59Uh first cluster of items have been

06:01previously approved as items on the

06:04consent agenda. Um and those are items

06:08one through nine. Uh at our voting

06:10meeting, those will be handled with a

06:12single vote. Um,

06:15>> I'm here.

06:18>> But I do need to ask, is there any

06:19commissioner who would like to remove

06:21any of those items one through nine from

06:22the consent agenda before we call for

06:24public input? Commissioner Davenport.

06:26>> Number five.

06:30>> Number three.

06:34>> Any others?

06:36>> Mr. Link.

06:37>> Oh, no. I think these guys

06:40these guys got them both. both the ones

06:42I was interested in. Thank you.

06:43>> Okay. Three [snorts] and five.

06:46All right. All right. So, uh members of

06:48the public, um now is the time uh when

06:51we would ask you to speak to any item on

06:53the consent agenda 1 through nine

06:56excluding three and five. Is there

06:58anyone here to speak to any of those

07:00items one through nine excluding three

07:04and five?

07:09Give you a second to check the agenda.

07:14All right, come on up again. Just

07:15provide your name, place of residence,

07:16and let us know which item you're

07:18speaking to.

07:19>> Alan Cleveland. I live on Westlake

07:21Drive. I serve uh at your pleasure on

07:23your historic preservation commission

07:25and I'm a board of trustee at historic

07:27Athens and I'm here to speak personally

07:29in favor of the agenda item for the west

07:32clocks the development um that was on

07:35our 2025

07:37places in peril for historic Athens. uh

07:40that PD that that was in place was for

07:43development several years ago that

07:44didn't manifest and I think this is a

07:47great example of adaptive reuse and I

07:50supported hope that you guys do too as

07:52their staff's planning staff has

07:53approved that with conditions. I'm also

07:55in favor of the renaming of the bridge

07:58for Weaver D's. Thank you.

08:00>> Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. And again, uh

08:02West Clock is item 10, so it'll get a

08:04separate opportunity for public input.

08:08Anyone else on items one through nine

08:10excluding three and five?

08:15All right. Um we then are going to move

08:19uh to discussion of our two planning and

08:21zoning items which are 10 and 11. So I'm

08:23going to relocate to down next to

08:26manager cow and we're going to get a

08:28presentation from planning director

08:29Bruce Lonnie on those two items.

08:50Christine, you did turn the air

08:51conditioner.

08:57>> [laughter]

09:09>> All right. Good evening. Uh we have two

09:11zoning items coming to you from the

09:13planning commission at their September

09:143rd meeting. The first of those uh is

09:17for 130 Newton Bridge Road. This is an

09:22amendment to a PD that it currently

09:24exists on several properties in that

09:26area. Um, shorthand for the area is the

09:29Westclocks redevelopment and um, this is

09:32a two-part request. So, it would require

09:36two votes for action. The request is to

09:39reszone from employment office plan

09:41development to commercial general and to

09:44reduce the overall plan development

09:45area. Uh, it would also create an

09:48overlay. Um, shorthand for the overlay

09:50is WCX, West Clocks, for the two parcels

09:53that are coming out of the plan

09:55development. The intention behind this

09:57is to provide for mixed use and to

09:59increase some flexibility that the PD

10:01didn't currently afford. Uh, the the two

10:04parcels coming out of the PD uh account

10:06for 19.47 acres of the total 35 acre

10:10plan development.

10:12There is a just under 235,000 square

10:15feet of shell space from the the former

10:18factory that's still on the site.

10:21Surface parking spaces. It's it's a

10:24range um that that is being requested

10:26and it's a range that exists on site

10:28because the condition of those those uh

10:30spaces uh is kind of hard to calculate.

10:33but a minimum of 462, a maximum of 693,

10:36and there presently is a roughly 3 and

10:381/2 acre green space along uh the

10:41frontage of Newton Bridge Road. So,

10:44here's a view of the subject property.

10:47Those are the two parcels outlined in

10:49red and black that are under

10:51consideration for coming out of the plan

10:52development and being subject to a brand

10:54new overlay district on top of the

10:56commercial general zoning.

10:58This gives you a sense of what the

11:00overall PD presently is. So that plan

11:04development boundary includes both the

11:06green area and the area to the south

11:08that's outlined in red and black. The

11:11area, as you can tell, the area to the

11:12north has largely already been developed

11:14and all but one feature of the PD has

11:17been built. The one feature that wasn't

11:19built is the connection to the greenway

11:21that was to be along the northern edge

11:23of the property. And that's why there's

11:25a leg that kind of goes off to the east

11:28and connects to that edge.

11:34Future land use would remain the same.

11:35Town center

11:38zoning depicted this would be the change

11:40here. EOPD on the left is what we have

11:42today and the southern half roughly of

11:47the request would become commercial

11:49general with the special district

11:50overlay sitting on top.

11:54This shows you the environmental areas

11:56that are nearby. There's a considerable

11:58amount of flood plane. Um, but none of

12:01it impacts this site directly.

12:05So, here's the survey. This is the site

12:07plan that was submitted to work from.

12:09This is just those two parcels um that

12:12that total the area that would be in the

12:14overlay.

12:16Here are some photographs of that area.

12:21The goal is to retain to the greatest

12:24extent peas feasible the uh existing

12:26factory structure and repurpose it. The

12:30image on the lower right corner shows

12:32that moment where the building meets the

12:35PD. So that's right now the PD line

12:38between um existing structure and I

12:40believe that's Wayfair.

12:44This is a view looking to the north

12:46across the storm water facility that was

12:48built as part of the PD that was um

12:50implemented. The aspect that was built

12:52out in the distance you see the

12:53apartments. I think those the flats at

12:55general time 210 total apartments, a mix

13:00of studios, onebedroom and two bedrooms.

13:04Another image of the area that's under

13:06consideration for being in the overlay

13:07and being resoned.

13:10This is the plan development. So this is

13:12the master site plan that was approved

13:15and and applies today.

13:18The area on the southern edge where you

13:20see that sort of quartered up building

13:23um that's the existing factory that was

13:25essentially thrown east west north south

13:28corridors through it. That's the part

13:30that would be coming out of the PD. The

13:32northern half as I noted built with the

13:35exception of the greenway connection.

13:38This was the architecture that was b

13:39that is binding as part of the PD. These

13:41were the images for the corner um the

13:44area of the property that we're talking

13:45about to be removed from the PD.

13:51So this is a comparative analysis. Um a

13:54couple things to note here is you plan

13:58developments have have expectations that

14:00are fairly rigid. And when you look at

14:03the existing PD, which is the column on

14:04the left, you see a specified amount of

14:09of commercial. You see a comparative

14:12amount on the right hand side that is

14:14proposed. The difference being that the

14:16PD says exactly where it's supposed to

14:18go and exactly what it's supposed to

14:19look like. The proposed overlay would

14:21give flexibility for that amount of

14:23square footage, which is an increase, to

14:25be moved around the site and to respond

14:27to market forces um with some

14:30tolerances.

14:33Couple other things to note. The PD had

14:35a hotel anticipated that is not

14:37anticipated, but would be permitted as

14:39part of the overlay. So, it's not a

14:41mustdo. The maximum building height

14:43would be increased by essentially a

14:45floor 15t. Um the tree management plan

14:49comes with some changes. Um there would

14:51be some additional coverage in trees

14:53that anticipated. Um but there is some

14:55relief put into this. Um and then the

14:59connection to future greenway we'll talk

15:01about as a condition that came from the

15:02planning commission.

15:06The prohibited uses as proposed by the

15:08applicant would be to not allow for

15:10quick vehicle servicing, vehicle repair,

15:12and auto and RV sales, distribution

15:14centers, self-service storage,

15:16construction material sales, kennels,

15:18data centers, gas stations, drive-thrus,

15:20and mortuaries. Um, permitted, however,

15:24would be commercial outdoor recreation,

15:26wholesale nurseries, light manufacturing

15:29with a cap of up to 50,000 square feet,

15:32sale of any products grown on site, and

15:34groundf flooror residential, which is a

15:36relaxing of a standard that would

15:38normally be found in commercial general.

15:40That wouldn't allow for that. This

15:41overlay is asking for that ability.

15:46So the other thing with this is to look

15:49at 50 beds per acre as a residential

15:51density. CG zoning allows for 24. The

15:54applicant has requested the ability to

15:56go to 50 as part of the overlay with a

15:58maximum building height of 80 ft. A

16:00floor area ratio not to exceed 3.0 which

16:04is essentially triple whatever your dirt

16:06is you get to have in building. So if

16:09you have a 1acre lot that's 43,000

16:12square feet a 3.0 0 would say

16:17129, right? Math on the fly. So, um

16:21there was also a request to have 24

16:24special events per year. Two per month

16:27was the request and so that would be an

16:30exception to our current standards for

16:31how we do temporary special events. Um

16:34but that is part of the overlay request.

16:37>> Not sure why we're excluding mortuaries.

16:41Certainly option to discuss if we need

16:45to make a change. Uh required parking a

16:481 to twobedroom unit uh would only

16:50generate one space which is a dialing

16:52down of the normal amount of uh parking

16:55expected. Three plusbedroom units at the

16:58request of the applicant is asking for

17:00one and three/4er spaces.

17:03Um what they're trying to not do here is

17:07not have a number generated that would

17:09require them to add additional asphalt,

17:12add additional coverage. Um and they

17:16feel pretty confident that with the

17:17flexibility in this overlay that they

17:18will have a mix of using that won't need

17:20it.

17:22Um they're also asking for the ability

17:24to not have to meet the design standards

17:26of the parking code with the exception

17:27certainly of meeting uh ADA

17:30requirements.

17:33So planning commission's recommendation

17:34was as far as the PD amendment to

17:36approve it. So that's a reduction of the

17:38total amount of the PD. The PD would

17:40live on, but it would be on the northern

17:42properties that have already been built

17:44out. The reszone was also approved with

17:47conditions and the creation of the

17:49overlay. Two conditions. One, the owner

17:51shall construct a multi-use path along

17:53the southeastern boundary of the

17:55property along Derry Packac Road. The

17:58reason for that alignment as we got into

18:00the analysis and we're talking with the

18:02applicant Athens clar county should that

18:05be built out has a better opportunity to

18:07connect across properties we already

18:09hold to eventually get over to Sandy

18:12Creek Nature Center and those properties

18:15on the northern edge you actually run

18:16into privately held property and so even

18:19if we got the connection on the northern

18:20edge with of the PD we' we'd be stuck um

18:24and and have to kind of work with yet

18:27another property owner to make a

18:28connection. Second condition, the

18:31project site shall maintain a minimum of

18:33three acres combined in maintained open

18:35space or community gathering space.

18:38That's essentially the area along the

18:40frontage of Newton Bridge Road.

18:44That concludes the staff report.

18:46>> All right. Thank you, Bruce. All right.

18:47Is any member of the public here to

18:49speak to item 10 tonight? The former

18:52Westquot factory.

18:55>> Thank you. Russell Edwards, 564 Palaski

18:57Street. It's been a long road and glad

19:00to be here this evening for the first

19:02time with the mayor and commission for

19:04three minutes to try to explain this

19:07huge project that we've been working on

19:08for more than a year. Uh August 18,

19:122025, we first met with Bruce Lonnie

19:14even before we [snorts] closed on this

19:16property. Met with planning staff on

19:18March 17th of this year to talk with our

19:21pre pre-application discussion. March

19:2424th, met with Mong Kogan and the state

19:26economic development officials. April

19:2824th, met with planning staff to begin

19:31talking about an overlay. May 12th, met

19:33again with planning staff to begin

19:36brainstorming, working together on the

19:38overlay. May 29th, we submitted our

19:40zoning application. July 2nd, we met

19:43with the Athens Planning Commission for

19:44the first time to receive comments and

19:46collaborate on the proposal. July 9th,

19:49we met again with the planning staff at

19:51their offices to incorporate the

19:53planning commission feedback. July 23rd,

19:56we met again with the planning staff to

19:57update our overlay draft. July 31st, we

20:01submitted our application for the

20:02planning commission vote. And September

20:053rd, we met with the planning commission

20:07where they unanimously approved this

20:09application. So, a lot of work, a lot of

20:12time with Mr. Lonnie and his great staff

20:15and their offices. Si six meetings just

20:17with Mr. Lonnie and his staff and then

20:19of course with the planning commission

20:21and one thing that we've all arrived on

20:23to this point is now we know sadly the

20:28PD has been a failure. The result of it

20:32is what you see today 19.48 acres of

20:36neglected land with over 230,000 square

20:40ft of a warehouse that has been

20:43neglected for decades. It's unusable

20:46without expensive renovations.

20:49And throughout this year, we've walked

20:51this site with dozens of people who want

20:53to start businesses in Athens. But

20:56frankly, the PD is too expensive to

20:59build, and it makes affordable rent

21:01impossible. The roof, as you can see,

21:03has a huge hole in it right there with

21:05trees growing out of it. The entire

21:08replacement of the roof we've got quoted

21:10is about $7 million.

21:13Uh we as the ownership group here all

21:16locally with with kids here locally. We

21:19acquired this property because we wanted

21:21some other place to take our kids to

21:23have a good time. Fun town. That's the

21:25name of our our entity. And so we look

21:28forward to collaborating further with

21:31the mayor and commission. We've had a

21:32great year putting our heads together.

21:35Again, unanimous approval from the

21:37planning commission. We wholeheartedly

21:39accept their conditions and look forward

21:41to activating this public hazard of a

21:44site. [laughter] Thank you.

21:45>> Thank you, Mr. Edwards.

21:47>> Good evening.

21:50>> Good evening. Uh, I'm Gray Riley. I live

21:52at 170 Hendricks Avenue um in Athens.

21:57And um I think Russell covered why um

22:01the plan development is a failure. Uh

22:04I'm I'm one of the members of the uh

22:06ownership group here and um

22:10want to explain the additional uh

22:13element of the overlay and why that we

22:16view that as as an essential part of

22:17this project. Um, in short, the the base

22:22zoning of what I believe is employment

22:25office is uh is not in line with the

22:28future land use map and and doesn't

22:31really conform to what I understand most

22:34the the community kind of envisions for

22:36this site. Um, the land use map

22:38qualifies us as a a town center and and

22:42that is reflected when you go there. you

22:45can see the potential of this place as a

22:48town center. It's it's massive. Um,

22:51frankly, uh, daunting if you're in my

22:53shoes. Um, but we are really excited

22:57about about that town center um, vision

23:01for this parcel. Personally,

23:04I spent a very hot summer here in town

23:08with uh two wild young boys, and it was

23:11very clear, very quickly um that Athens

23:16uh that we need more places for families

23:19to go that are out of the sun, uh

23:22whether it's indoor spaces or shaded. Um

23:25the the thought of u developing this

23:29into a place where I could take uh my

23:32little gremlins is um is really

23:36exciting. And when you go to the site,

23:39you kind of see pretty quickly that this

23:41is not a 200,000 square foot warehouse.

23:44It is uh it's basically

23:47um three big walls

23:50and and if you squint you can see how

23:53much potential it has. Um it's close to

23:56downtown.

23:57It's protected that space inside the

23:59walls is protected from a a busy street,

24:01but it's very accessible. Um it's just

24:05easy to get to and if it were if we were

24:07able to do it, I think it could be

24:10really fun. We've had a lot of

24:12conversations with operators of fund

24:15businesses as we sort of think of them

24:18and they all agree that the limitation

24:20is expensive rent and so um

24:24the overlay in addition to getting out

24:28of the PD will help us use the assets

24:31that we have there develop it as

24:34affordably as possible and pass those

24:36savings on. Personally,

24:38uh excuse me. So, we we've heard some

24:40questions about the funding of this

24:43project. The PD costs somewhere in the

24:45$50 million range to build out and it's

24:47very hard to do in phases and our

24:50strategy is going to be to build it in

24:52smaller chunks and have it hopefully pay

24:54for itself. I can leave it there.

24:56>> Uh thank you so much.

24:59>> Good evening.

25:00>> Good evening, mayor, commissioners. Uh

25:03I'm Chris Jackson, 987 R Street. I'm a

25:07little bit passionate about this

25:08project. one of the owners. Also, I've

25:10so I brought some notes. I'm just going

25:12to read my my feelings right now. You've

25:16uh you've heard from my partners with

25:18the why the the PD has run its course

25:21and why the future land use map honestly

25:24is correct about this place as a town

25:26center.

25:28I want to talk about the overlay because

25:30the overlay is what makes the town

25:31center real.

25:33Commercial general zoning gets us close,

25:36but the overlay carries the carries it

25:39the rest of the way and does two things.

25:42First, it opens the property for the

25:45uses a town center would run on. So

25:48that's outdoor recreation, public

25:50events, craft markets, room for people

25:54to gather. [snorts] Those are the uses

25:56that bring operators and entrepreneurs

25:58to this site. Over the past year, I've

26:02walked the property with dozens of

26:03people who want to start something in

26:05Athens, and those are the uses they ask

26:08about. Second, and this is part the part

26:12that I want to be clear about, the

26:13overlay writes three commitments onto

26:16this land. Those commitments bind us and

26:20any future owner who owns the place. And

26:23these are it commits this site to 50,000

26:26square feet of commercial space placed

26:28in service.

26:30That's real businesses and substantial

26:33amount of them on the ground before the

26:35rest of the project is built out. In the

26:3710 years I've been in Athens, I can't

26:40name another mixeduse project of that

26:42size actually delivered other than maybe

26:44Beachwood.

26:46Um that is a significant commitment to

26:49put on this land and it holds this site

26:52to the mixed use that the PD couldn't

26:54provide.

26:56Um, it also commits three acres to

26:59communal green space for the people who

27:01work and gather there. And it commits us

27:04to connecting this property to the

27:05greenway.

27:07The overlay also holds this land to town

27:09center uses permanently. So, no self

27:12storage, data centers, detention

27:14facilities, all that's ruled out for

27:16good. The last piece is the work I do

27:19every day. Um, this property already

27:22holds real value. the bricks, the

27:24concrete, the steel structure, the site

27:26work that was finished decades ago.

27:29So leveraging what already exists is how

27:32we keep rent reachable for local

27:34operators and it keeps that material out

27:36of the landfill. Here, historic

27:39preservation is the business plan. So,

27:41planning commission voted to recommend

27:43approval of both the actions needed.

27:45That's removing the parcels from the PD,

27:48reszoning to CG, and placing an overlay.

27:50and I'm asking that you guys consider

27:52and do the same. Thank you.

27:54>> Thank you, Mr. Jackson. Is there anyone

27:56else here to speak to item number 10?

27:59>> Good evening.

28:04>> Good evening, mayor and commissioner.

28:05Thank you guys all for being here. Uh my

28:08name is Kristen Bach and I am an

28:10independent business owner in Athens.

28:13I'm not an owner of this project, just a

28:16dreamer that has been brought in. Uh

28:20I also uh am an artist, art educator,

28:25advocate for the arts in our community

28:27and uh I'm also on or the chair of the

28:32Newton Bridge TAD Commission,

28:34which is where this property is located.

28:37Uh I'm here tonight to ask for your

28:40support of this project. Uh 25 years

28:43ago, I found Athens by way of its music

28:46scene. While going to art school in

28:48Minneapolis,

28:51I met a band that came through and they

28:54introduced me to Athens. [clears throat]

28:58We became friends and that was my

29:00connection to this city. I fell in love

29:03with the creative energy of this city

29:05and I wanted to be a part of it.

29:07I've put my heart into this community,

29:10started a business, a family, and made

29:13Athens my home. That creative spirit is

29:15our city's identity, and some

29:18communities really look for that and

29:20wish they had it. But we have it.

29:24It brings people

29:26to places. It keeps people here and it

29:30allows them to invest in their life

29:32here. For nearly nearly 50 years,

29:36Westclocks was a place where generations

29:38of Athenians worked and made things.

29:41Now, it's our time to

29:44for a new generation to come here and

29:47make things again.

29:49What makes this project really special

29:50to me is that these developers are

29:53thinking differently. I've spent a lot

29:55of time with them and they aren't simply

29:57talking about buildings or square

29:58footage. They're talking more about the

30:00culture,

30:02community, artists, musicians, local

30:06businesses, and creating a place that is

30:08truly authentic to Athens.

30:10They really care about the creative

30:12energy that we have in this city.

30:16West Clocks is perfectly positioned for

30:18this and it has surrounding

30:21neighborhoods, new housing that is going

30:23up, parks and recreation, and downtown

30:26is within an earshot if the bands are

30:28loud enough. I have long believed Newton

30:32Bridge is one of Athens's greatest

30:34opportunities for growth and magic to

30:36happen. West Clocks can become a

30:39cultural hub for this area. A place that

30:42connects neighborhoods, gives people

30:44reason to gather, create, experience art

30:46and music, and support independent

30:48businesses. As Athens grows, we need

30:51more than housing and commercial spaces.

30:54We need places that turns growth into

30:56community and where artists, musicians,

30:59makers, entrepreneurs, and small

31:01businesses can take root and sparkle

31:04like our community does.

31:05>> Thank you, Miss B.

31:09Good evening.

31:09>> Good evening. Hi. Um, my name is Ary

31:13Edwards. I live at 564 Palaski Street.

31:16Um, I purchased the store Agora um,

31:18behind the 40 W Club in 2002 and

31:21operated it as a vintage co-op. The

31:24lowcost rent and small spaces I was able

31:27to provide vendors incubated numerous

31:30businesses and entrepreneurs that are

31:32still active today. Community, Starlight

31:35Showroom, Vixs Vintage, Indie South,

31:39Loyo Records, just to name a few, all

31:41began inside Agora. I invested in

31:44Westclocks with the same idea in mind.

31:47If we can incrementally and affordably

31:50activate small spaces for entrepreneurs,

31:53we can create something really great for

31:55Athens. Low development cost and low

31:58rent helps locals first. Development

32:01conditions like what doomed the plan

32:04development increase costs that are then

32:07passed on to tenants and block

32:08opportunities.

32:10Please abolish the PD and allow me to

32:13unlock opportunities for local

32:15entrepreneurs like I did over 25 years

32:18ago in downtown Athens. This building is

32:21currently a public hazard. The community

32:24benefit is bringing it back into service

32:26and providing lowcost opportunities for

32:29local entrepreneurs. Thank you.

32:31>> Thank you, Mr. Edwards.

32:34>> Good evening.

32:36>> Hi, my name is Cla Klesneski and I live

32:39at 558 West Broad Street. I'm reading

32:42this statement on behalf of Julius

32:44Richie who regrets that he is unable to

32:46be here in person today. My name is

32:48Julius Richie. I live at 180 Fairway

32:51Circle in Athens, Georgia, Clark County.

32:53Um, I'm a native of Athens, Clark

32:55County, and I want to voice my support

32:57for the redevelopment efforts of the new

32:58Westclock owners. Their plan includes

33:01setting aside a space for the community

33:02to host affordable public events and

33:04gatherings. This is something that we

33:06need in Athens. I have worked with the

33:08owners on events in the past, and we are

33:10already planning an exciting outdoor

33:12event at the Westlock's property to

33:14encourage people to vote. I support the

33:17proposal, and I ask that you do the

33:18same. Thank you.

33:19>> Thank you, Mr. Kakowski.

33:22There anyone else here to speak to item

33:2410 tonight?

33:26All right. Hearing none, we'll come to

33:28commission discussion. Uh, Commissioner

33:30Thornton is on the phone with us and

33:32says she'd like to provide some input

33:33first as this is in District 9.

33:36>> Um, yes. Um, I do support this project.

33:40I have been in conversation. First of

33:43all, let me apologize

33:45um that I'm not there. I have a health

33:47situation going on. But um I do support

33:51this project um in its entirety. I do

33:55think it complements the the uh TAD

34:00infrastructure project that we passed

34:02not long ago in this district and the

34:04new housing that is coming down Newton

34:08Bridge Road. I think this is going to be

34:10a a a great asset for that area. But I

34:14do think it'll be an asset for um the

34:18total Athens um um community. I really

34:24would like to see um ideas and all the

34:28other districts that have pads that that

34:31make those connections. Um before I um

34:35say what I need, can can I make this

34:37motion now? Do you need me to? Uh so uh

34:40given this is agenda setting, we'll uh

34:42we'll make a motion at the next meeting.

34:43>> That's right. That's right. So with

34:45that, I'm saying would you please um

34:47call me back so I can get back on um and

34:52mute. So I'm sitting here quietly now

34:54wait for for you or Christine to call me

34:57back. But I think this is a great uh

34:59asset for the community and um I'd like

35:03to see where it goes. And I do

35:04appreciate the work and the efforts that

35:06this group have made. Also,

35:09>> thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner

35:11Fischer.

35:11>> Yeah, thank [clears throat] you, Mayor.

35:13And um I do want to thank the U Funtown

35:17LLC for putting this together um four

35:20years ago when I was first when I first

35:22became commissioner. I went out and

35:24looked at the Westcot property and I

35:26just thought, what an opportunity to

35:28really build something there that could

35:29really um benefit our community. And I'm

35:32glad to see it's finally going to get

35:34developed into the right way. It's going

35:36to be the connectivity from downtown to

35:39there on out further to Newton Bridge

35:41Road with multi-use path. Hopefully,

35:44we're going to have sidewalks there.

35:47Great. A lot of people that are living

35:49in that area can really utilize that

35:50space. So, I'm glad to see this and I

35:53fully support um what they're trying to

35:55do and I hope my colleagues feel the

35:58same way. So, thank you, Mayor.

35:59>> Thank you. Uh Commissioner Wright and

36:00Commissioner Link.

36:01>> Um yeah, I have a Bruce. I have some

36:04questions. Well, it's could be very

36:06simple question. The conditions um that

36:09staff wanted, are they the same

36:11conditions that the planning commission

36:13has in theirs?

36:14>> I they achieved the same thing.

36:16>> Okay.

36:16>> It was a different approach and and

36:19honestly, I think some of the feedback

36:21we got working with the applicant kind

36:23of helped land with where the planning

36:25commission recommendations are and we're

36:26comfortable with them.

36:27>> Okay.

36:28>> Thank you,

36:29>> Commissioner Link.

36:30>> Yeah. Um, I'm really glad to see that

36:33the planning commission received this

36:35favorably and is supporting it

36:36unanimously. Um, I was, this was in my

36:40district when it the PD was first

36:42proposed a dozen or so years ago. Um,

36:46and back then there was a lot of

36:48trepidation about um, redeveloping

36:51industrial sites. I I kind of had to

36:53nudge them into including the

36:54residential in the project and that has

36:57actually been quite successful. I'm

36:59really glad to see this project being

37:01taken over by local guys. Um, and I'm

37:04really looking forward to see what it

37:06becomes. I feel like the overlay zone

37:09gives them some creativity. They know

37:10this community. They know what this

37:12community wants. They know the people in

37:13this community. Um, having that

37:16flexibility will allow them to make the

37:18most of this project. And, um, it's

37:20already had a couple of community events

37:22on it. I' I've gone to the Indie South

37:24Craft Fair there a couple times and it's

37:26it was fabulous. Um, so I I feel like

37:28there are, you know, reasonable

37:29conditions and the flexibility allowed

37:32by the overlay will allow them to make

37:34the most of this project and I'm really

37:36looking forward to seeing it come to

37:38fruition.

37:40>> All right. Uh, appreciate the the

37:43application for this. Uh, I think this

37:45demonstrates to us that sometimes

37:46simpler is better and will result in

37:50more successful outcomes if we have just

37:52a few well-crafted contours around a

37:54project of this scale. So, I'm looking

37:56forward to seeing this come to fruition

37:59at the first Tuesday meeting in October.

38:02All right, we're going to go on to item

38:03number 11.

38:08>> All right, the next item is at 1295 US

38:10Highway 29 North. This is a reszone

38:13request. It also involves a future land

38:15use change.

38:18The future land use map change would be

38:19from neighborhood center to major

38:21corridor. The zoning map change would be

38:23from agricultural residential to

38:25commercial general. A fairly large

38:28change, but I think when you see the

38:31context, it it will make sense as to why

38:33that's being requested. The goal is for

38:36retail development that would include

38:37two standalone structures, surface

38:39parking lots for those, and a shared

38:42access drive that is also shared with

38:44the mobile home park uh immediately

38:46behind the property. This includes 2.38

38:51acres of an existing 4.17 acre parcel.

38:54So the request as it sits today would

38:56result in a split zone parcel, but the

38:59owners have already submitted a final

39:01plat to um address that issue. The

39:04application also anticipates the

39:07possibility of a variance request for

39:09buffer requirements between commercial

39:11and residential. Um they are

39:13anticipating some mobile home sites

39:15would be very close to the the rear

39:17property line and um I think they've

39:20already made application for the

39:21hearings board to hear that pending the

39:23outcome of uh this decision by the mayor

39:26and commission.

39:28Come on.

39:30Aerial view shows that it's currently a

39:32wooded parcel uh sitting along Highway

39:3529 North.

39:38It's immediately adjacent to the

39:40Pinewoods Mobile Home Park. Um this is a

39:42view for of that entrance into the park.

39:44That same driveway would also provide

39:46access to the commercial uses.

39:51From a future land use standpoint, it is

39:53a little piece of major corridor that is

39:57being requested to change to. And even

39:59though it doesn't touch another major

40:01corridor designated parcel, it's just

40:03across the driveway. So that same

40:05designation is on the western side of

40:08Highway 29 north as you head back into

40:10town.

40:11>> [snorts]

40:12>> The zoning request

40:14um that's depicted here shows the AR

40:17changing to the CG. And what you're

40:19seeing is how that split zone would play

40:21out until we get the the lot

40:23configuration straightened out. So, it's

40:25a CG rectangle with a an AR piece that

40:28would be recombined with pinewoods.

40:33Here are the environmental areas on the

40:34site.

40:36Nothing in the subject area, just some

40:38nearby.

40:40And this is the site plan. This is a

40:41conceptual site plan, so it's not

40:43binding. But it was important for us to

40:45see their intention because we needed to

40:47figure out access. And you'll see there

40:49is a condition of approval recommended

40:51from the planning commission that

40:52addresses that access.

40:55Some photographs as you look into this

40:58commercial area. The star in the lower

41:00lefthand corner kind of shows you where

41:01we were standing for the picture just

41:03above.

41:05And for context, this is the third of

41:08three items that you have heard. The

41:11previous two special use permits, one

41:13for Country Corners and Pinewood

41:14Estates, I know you're familiar with.

41:16This is that third piece for this

41:17ownership group to be able to start some

41:20cash flow to be able to finish these

41:22improvements in the mobile home parks on

41:25either side.

41:29From an analysis standpoint, this is a

41:31piece that's on an edge. So, it's a

41:33challenge when you look at just words on

41:35the page and and the various um future

41:38land use things that we've talked

41:39through. Um from a technical review

41:41standpoint, transportation and public

41:43works is recommending a 50-foot

41:45separation between any residential and

41:47commercial drives. They will be able to

41:49achieve that. um they're interested in

41:52mitigating some safety concerns that may

41:54be from commercial traffic with

41:56residential um sidewalk traffic,

41:58pedestrian traffic, and and folks

42:00[clears throat] coming in and out.

42:02Public Utilities also notes sewer is not

42:04presently available to this parcel, but

42:06a sewer main extension is required and

42:08could be feasible, and there have been

42:09active discussions with the applicants

42:11on how to achieve that. Regarding the

42:14comprehensive plan and the future land

42:15use map, this is on an edge. It's on a

42:17rural edge and it does extend some of

42:21the development capacity that we thought

42:23would stay a little further south, like

42:25I said, just on the other side of the

42:26driveway. Um, but it is a modest change

42:29from what was anticipated. [snorts]

42:33Similarly, the zoning map and the

42:34ordinance, we're look, we're talking

42:35about an AR zone parcel. That's our

42:37lowest density zoning, but it's right on

42:40the edge of some commercial. You have

42:41commercial rural just across that

42:43driveway. Um, and when and if sewer is

42:46provided,

42:47that is typically the key factor to

42:50unlock commercial potential going from

42:52low density CR to a higher density CG.

42:55Um,

42:58so planning commission's recommendations

43:00regarding the future land use change,

43:02there was approval. [snorts] Uh,

43:04regarding the change in zoning from AR

43:07to commercial general, it was also

43:10recommended for approval with a series

43:11of conditions. One was to provide

43:13sidewalk along Trail Creek Drive and the

43:16US Highway 29 North frontage to avoid

43:18those pedestrian vehicle conflicts.

43:21Those would be worked through in our

43:22plans review process with both

43:24transportation and public works staff

43:26and transit.

43:28Second condition is the applicant shall

43:30file a final plat which they have done

43:31since this came before the planning

43:33commission to resolve that split zone

43:35situation. So we'll end up with two

43:36parcels in short order. The third

43:39condition is that commercial traffic

43:41would be allowed to go 210 ft deep on

43:44Trail Creek Drive, but no further. That

43:47allows that opportunity for commercial

43:50entrance and exit without having to go

43:52through G DOT and request a curb cut,

43:54which is is not likely to be possible um

43:57given the short amount of frontage they

43:58have. We need that as a condition

44:01because it would be limited by the AR

44:03zoning if we don't have that as part of

44:05this approval. Fourth condition,

44:08only commercial rural uses would be

44:10allowed in those two structures until

44:13public sewer is available. And

44:16commercial rural has development

44:17standards that are very low impact.

44:19They're designed to be served by septic

44:20systems. When the sanitary sewer comes

44:23along, all the CG options should be

44:26viable because they'll have adequate

44:28service to provide them. So those are

44:29the four conditions of approval from the

44:31planning commission. And that concludes

44:33staff report.

44:35>> Thank you, Bruce. Is there any member of

44:36the public here to speak to item number

44:3711?

44:38>> Good evening.

44:40>> Good evening. I'm Jeff Carter with

44:41Carter Engineering Consultants, 1010

44:43Commerce uh Drive in Bogart. And just uh

44:46wanted to mention a couple of things

44:48tonight. Uh this is the same uh

44:50ownership group, same developers that uh

44:53we presented last month with Country

44:56Corners and Pinewood Estates. And we

44:57really we really think of this as one

44:59project. the fact that we're here

45:02tonight, not last month with this

45:04particular project had more to do with

45:05scheduling and and changing the land use

45:07than anything, but it's it's definitely

45:09as important as as any of the other the

45:11two projects that that um we talked

45:13about last month. Um and first things

45:16first, just an update on the water at

45:19Pinewood Estates that is under

45:21construction. They're actively working

45:23in replacing those water lines now. And

45:25so, uh, this, uh, by approving this

45:28reszone would definitely help, uh, go a

45:30long way to to help, um, pay for that.

45:33In terms of just a couple of, uh, Mr.

45:36Lonnie's, uh, comments and the staff

45:39report, just want you to know that

45:41sanitary sewer plans have been submitted

45:43and have been approved. And so, it's not

45:46a question of whether or not that can

45:49happen or not. Uh, we have not had the

45:51precon yet. We've not paid the fees. Uh

45:54so technically it's not permitted but

45:55plans have been reviewed um and

45:57approved. And so as far as the fire

46:00marshall uh's office, they've uh

46:02supported the project. Um the traffic u

46:05you know we did a traffic study, a

46:08really comprehensive traffic study here

46:10that studied every intersection from

46:12here all the way up to 70 highway 72. Um

46:15the comments had to do with pedestrian

46:18uh safety and we're fine with putting

46:20the sidewalks in. we agree with with

46:22their uh with their recommendation, but

46:24otherwise there was no um real traffic

46:27um issues here. Um and just um again,

46:32this is just revitalizing this area. Uh

46:34we look at it as redevelopment. We look

46:36at this as being a very cohesive

46:38development. Um the the owners are

46:41thinking this is going to be like a

46:43medical clinic or a small grocery store,

46:45something that really will benefit the

46:47immediate area. And so we think it's a

46:49really good really good area. You know,

46:51if you've been out this this way

46:52recently, it's it's commercial area. Uh

46:55there's a commercial general across the

46:57street. Uh there's just to the south,

46:59you know, there's a lot of lot of

47:00commercial development that's going on

47:02in this area. So uh we appreciate u

47:05appreciate your support and be glad to

47:07try to answer any questions that you may

47:08have. Thank you.

47:09>> Thank you, Mr. Carter. Is there anyone

47:11else here to speak to item number 11 on

47:13Highway 29? Good evening.

47:17Good evening. Uh thank you, mayor,

47:20commissioners. I'm Mike Warren, 3311

47:23Ivanho 30327.

47:26Uh I'm here on behalf of the ownership

47:28uh to address any questions. I thought

47:30Jeff did a really good job of of giving

47:33you an overview of our of our plans

47:35there. We think our residents need some

47:38support uh amenities, retail, uh light

47:42retail, that type of uh development. And

47:45uh so this is our our game plan. So if

47:47you have any specific questions, I'm

47:49happy to address those.

47:50>> Thank you, Mr. Warren.

47:53>> Any other input on Highway 29?

47:57>> All right, we'll come for commission

47:58discussion. We have uh Commissioner

48:00Thornton with us on the phone and this

48:01is Interdist District 9.

48:04>> Um thank you again. Hopefully you can

48:06hear me.

48:07>> Yes, ma'am. Um

48:09um this is another um uh project that

48:12has long been in the wings and waiting

48:15that I that I do support. Uh I

48:18appreciate um the uh work that staff and

48:23the developers and the owners have put

48:26together to make this happen. Um, I' I'd

48:30like to say when we talk about um

48:33community benefits,

48:36uh, these this these owners and

48:38developers has just take it taken that

48:41on. They they've done much more um for

48:46the benefit of the of the community and

48:49I want to applaud them and their efforts

48:51to make sure that sidewalks can be put

48:55in. um making that connection, even

48:58talking about a grocery store on that

48:59side of town. But I do support this. Um

49:03it's it's just a part two of uh last

49:06month's vote. And I do appreciate Mike,

49:09you sending me those pictures of them

49:12actually laying down the pipes. So kudos

49:15to you and and and your crew. Thank you.

49:18>> Thanks, Commissioner. Any other input

49:20from commissioners on this item?

49:24All right, we'll go ahead and move to

49:25old new business discussion. I'll

49:27relocate and let Andrew get his seat

49:29back.

49:36>> Shouldn't we have discussed that

49:37question?

49:39>> Okay.

49:52All right, friends. Now is that time for

49:54any input from members of the public on

49:56old and new business. Uh, which tonight

49:59are items 3, five, and 12 through 22.

50:033, five, and 12 through 22.

50:08All right, line up the podium if you'd

50:10like and uh again, just provide your

50:12name, uh, place of residence, and you

50:14will have three minutes of input. Good

50:16evening.

50:16>> Good evening. Toana Maddox, um, Pitt

50:19Road, and I'm here to speak on agenda

50:22item number 23, um, the renaming of the

50:26East Broad Bridge. I want to begin by

50:29saying that I respect Wever D, Mr.

50:31Weaver D, and his contributions to

50:33Athens. I have patronized his business

50:36and personally hired his restaurant to

50:38cater several of my functions. So, I'm

50:41not seeking to diminish his legacy or

50:43take away his right to be considered

50:46this honor. I am asking that Jesse

50:49Walton Barnett's legacy be recognized

50:52alongside his. Jesse Walton Barnett had

50:55a significant historical connection to

50:58the East Broad Bridge. In 1971, when

51:02East Athethers residents face bar

51:04barriers to travel, to work, to

51:06hospitals, to other relatives, she

51:10fought hard um as part of the model

51:12cities committee to establish this

51:15bridge as a symbol of closing those

51:17transportation barriers and confronting

51:20racism. Her advocacy was about more than

51:23a bridge. It was access, opportunity,

51:26dignity, and the well-being of East

51:29Athens residents. Her legacy of service

51:32extended far beyond this effort. She led

51:35adult education programs. She co-founded

51:37the Athens Human Relation Council. She

51:40co-founded a credit union, led the

51:42nutrition program. She spoke publicly on

51:45behalf of the poor, and she worked

51:47alongside other courageous women who

51:50brought basic necessities, including

51:52street lights and water, to East Athens.

51:56So, I'm asking that you all um one of

52:00you, Commissioner Patrick will please

52:04extend a commissioner defined option

52:08that will allow um both of their

52:11legacies to be recognized since there

52:13are two spaces of the bridge that both

52:16of them be um recognized for this honor.

52:18It's not about taking a name away. It's

52:21about making room for a full a fuller

52:24story of Athens. Let this bridge bring

52:26honor to our cultural history, our

52:29community advocates, and the people who

52:31fought for basic necessities and

52:33opportunities. Thank Sorry, Patrick

52:36Commissioner, but I know you met with

52:37them.

52:38>> Thank you, Dr. Maddox. Is there anyone

52:40else here to speak to any item of old or

52:42new business tonight?

52:43>> My name is Lyn King. I'm speaking on

52:44item 14, street sales and ordinance. I

52:48am owner of Dirty Dogs and I have

52:50operated a vending downtown after 23

52:53years. I have a degree in culinary arts

52:56and I have business allows me to provide

52:58for my family and purchase a home and

53:00put down roots here. I am a property

53:03owner. I live in district 6 and I pay

53:06business taxes and I pay fees and

53:09requirement to operate. I am here in 23

53:13years. Downtown permit had never been

53:15suspended. I have received one warning

53:18which was I had too many containers on

53:20the corners and in related to this

53:24ordinance of change it's about the

53:26grease the water waste water and

53:28sanitation concerning citation in

53:31support of the change I had none of them

53:35understanding the county has invested

53:37significant in college square and I want

53:40to do my part to keep the space clean

53:44and protected my concern is This change

53:46would prohibit on-site food preparation

53:49at college square even though I have not

53:51been responsible for the conduct being

53:54you cited. Food vendors provide

53:57something different uh from bricks and

54:00mortar restaurants. Some customers want

54:02to grab food and keep walking. Others

54:05don't want to wait for tables later at

54:08night. many restaurants and no many

54:11restaurants no longer serve food

54:14responsibility for the vendors.

54:17For this reason, I confused [snorts]

54:19by amendment four describing this ban as

54:23econ economic fair play. I'm I'm

54:26respectfully asking how you eliminate

54:28one type of small business in favor of

54:30another in economic fair. Downtown has

54:33room for both restaurants and

54:35responsible street vendors. I also

54:38believe in unfair

54:41I also believe in the unfair restrictor

54:43all vendors based on one incident that

54:45did not involve my business. If the

54:48vendor violated the rule, the vendor

54:50should be held accountable. Not every

54:52vendor with a clean record. Before you

54:54reach this conclusion that could prevent

54:57me from returning to the location where

54:59I have operated my business, I'm asking

55:02the commissioner to consider three

55:05questions tonight. First, is it

55:07reasonable to restrict an entire vending

55:09program because of one vendor? Two, why

55:13hold the rule breaker vendor why not

55:15hold the rule breaker vendor accountable

55:17instead of taking away my opportunity to

55:20provide for my family? I'm um following

55:24the rules. Third, my vendor fee has been

55:27increased. A small business a small

55:30business serve uh owner served downtown

55:33for 23 years. I'd like to know why that

55:36increase was determined for for future

55:38planning since it went up in 23 and now

55:41again this year. I'm asking to operate

55:44without rules. Without rules.

55:47>> Thank you, Mr. King.

55:54>> Good evening.

55:55>> Good evening, mayor, commissioners. Uh

55:57my name is David Lynn. I'm at 226 Hill

55:59Street. I'm here tonight representing

56:01the Athens Downtown Development

56:03Authority in your discussion on the

56:06street sales ordinance. Um we're here

56:08tonight on the basis of two themes. Uh

56:12essentially we're opposed to having food

56:14vendors on College Square. uh

56:16essentially based on past experience. I

56:19know that many of y'all that were

56:21involved in the almost $20 million uh

56:24Clayton Street streetscape program were

56:27as dismayed as I was when essentially we

56:30woke up the next morning after the

56:32concrete had cured and it was greatly

56:35discolor discolored by grease. Uh grease

56:38had been tracked down the sidewalks. Uh

56:41grease had been emptied into storm

56:42drains. Um, you could slide across the

56:46uh sidewalk crossings there in Greece.

56:49Um, this isn't personal. Um, we do feel

56:53that there's uh a a place for downtown

56:57vendors. It's just not in the middle of

57:00your brand new legacy project of College

57:03Square. Secondly, it is based on a

57:06fairness issue. We have uh this isn't

57:08the downtown of 1992 when this ordinance

57:11was crafted when we didn't have that

57:13many restaurants downtown. Uh today we

57:16have a very robust downtown restaurant

57:20uh uh system and many of those operate

57:23late at night. um local uh vendor, local

57:28restaurants like Little Italy and DPO

57:31and Eurrap and all the and the Grill,

57:34they all offer these types of offerings

57:36and it seems unfair that we would allow

57:40a government sponsored competition for a

57:43small fee uh to um compete with folks

57:48that are paying taxes and paying

57:51expensive rents to be on College Square.

57:53So, we please ask you to consider your

57:55investment, consider your past

57:57experience with the downtown vendors,

58:00and to um prohibit the food sales on

58:03College Square. Thank you.

58:05>> Thank you, Mr. Lynn. There anyone else

58:07here to provide input on any item of old

58:08or new business tonight?

58:14>> Good evening.

58:15>> Good evening, Mayor and Commission. Um

58:18appreciate the opportunity to throw my

58:20two cents in on something. Um, I'm here,

58:22my name is Melanie Ford and I live at

58:24176 Wendy Lane in Athens. Um, and I am

58:28here to talk about the new judicial

58:30center and the couple of options for

58:32that. Um, and I'm presenting u my uh

58:36preference for um the pocket park

58:39version um that would potentially uh be

58:43in favor of saving the moon tree. So, I

58:46just wanted to mention a couple of

58:47things. is I moved here about 32 years

58:49ago to uh as a contractor and worked on

58:52the [snorts] classic center project. And

58:53one of the things that really resonated

58:55with me when I came here just

58:57temporarily was the sense of community

59:00that this place had in Athens and um all

59:04the community support and some not

59:06support for the classic center and just

59:08in all the years that I've been here

59:10seeing how things have developed and

59:12been really impressed with the community

59:14here and that's what I fell in love with

59:16and why I decided to move here and make

59:18Athens my permanent residence residence.

59:21I think in the last few years there

59:22seems to be kind of a resurgence of um

59:25destroying some of our historic

59:26resources and one of the things that's

59:29potentially on the chopping block right

59:30now is the 120 Doherty Street building

59:32which was the former library and then in

59:35conjunction with that the Athens Moon

59:37Tree. Um about four or five years ago we

59:40did a rededication of the Moon Tree when

59:42we kind of rediscovered it. A lot of

59:44people in the community had forgotten

59:45that it existed but it's pretty special

59:48thing that we have here. There's less

59:50than 70 moon trees that are still um in

59:53existence in the United States. There

59:55were originally about 400 that were

59:57potentially planted and a lot of them

59:59really got forgotten about and the fact

1:00:01that we have one here in Athens is

1:00:02pretty special. It's been listed as a

1:00:04cultural resource and is a um national

1:00:07historic landmark as well. And we have

1:00:10on the Athens, Clark County government's

1:00:12website um a great video supporting it

1:00:15and how the Athens clar county

1:00:17facilities people take care of it. And

1:00:20it seems a real shame to just suddenly

1:00:22decide to get rid of it because we have

1:00:24determined that we need to put a very

1:00:26large judicial center on a very small

1:00:28piece of property over there. Um, so I

1:00:32just that tree was brought here about 50

1:00:35years ago and we made it part of our

1:00:37community and for us to now decide that

1:00:39we're just going to tear it down um

1:00:41seems pretty detrimental for the few

1:00:43amount of parking spaces that we might

1:00:45gain from it. Um, I also will say that

1:00:48for a long time, Athens, Clark County

1:00:50did not really plant plants in those big

1:00:52planters at 120 Doherty Street. And I've

1:00:54noticed in the last 5 years, they've

1:00:56started planting them again. And it

1:00:57really adds a lot to the streetscape

1:00:59there. And that and this tree, you know,

1:01:02are really nice additions to the fact

1:01:04that we have a lot of concrete and a lot

1:01:06of buildings over there. So, I think

1:01:08trying to maintain some of that is

1:01:09really important. Um I've heard some

1:01:12kind of false rumors that well the tree

1:01:14is in decline. Um and it absolutely is

1:01:17not and we have um arborists and urban

1:01:20land planners that have confirmed that

1:01:22that is not the case. And also

1:01:23>> thank you M for

1:01:25>> time is up.

1:01:26>> I'm sorry.

1:01:27>> Your three minutes has expired.

1:01:28>> Thank you. I appreciate it.

1:01:34>> Good evening.

1:01:35>> Good evening. Thank you mayor and

1:01:36councel. Uh, I have some a handout uh

1:01:39that I want.

1:01:40>> If you uh just leave those with the

1:01:41attorney, he'll distribute those to us

1:01:43later.

1:01:43>> Okay. You might pass them out so I can

1:01:47speak to that. I didn't know I was

1:01:49coming here until about 5:00. So, it's a

1:01:51rather crude sketch, but I'd like to

1:01:53speak about the judicial center and uh

1:01:56I'm very much in favor of saving the

1:02:00moon tree. I think it really is a a

1:02:02cultural asset for the community. My

1:02:04name is John While. I live at 330

1:02:06Westlake Drive and I'm a retired

1:02:09architect from uh from Atlanta. I'm

1:02:11married an Athens girl. So, you know,

1:02:14that's why I'm here, retired here. Uh I

1:02:16have a couple comments about the the

1:02:18current proposed design uh primarily

1:02:21about the orientation of the building.

1:02:24And you can see on the sketch uh that

1:02:27I've handed out uh the or the you you

1:02:30really have two buildings going on at

1:02:32the same time in my my opinion. Uh, one

1:02:35is the facade on Derty Street. The other

1:02:38is the corner of Lumpkin and Dari. And

1:02:42given the orientation of the building,

1:02:44the way it's set up, you really don't

1:02:46even see that entrance. That's the big

1:02:48statement. You don't see it if you're

1:02:50going from Palaski toward downtown. You

1:02:52see it coming the other way. So, I think

1:02:55if you reorient the building, flip the

1:02:57the plan around so that it backs into

1:03:00the back corner, it does a couple

1:03:02things. It respects the AM church that's

1:03:04on the corner down there right now. If

1:03:07you see the renderings that have been

1:03:08done, it coming from Darity up the

1:03:11street. It really overwhelms the

1:03:14building. The tower is there. It's right

1:03:15on top of the church building even. It's

1:03:17not, you know, major piece of

1:03:20architecture, but it's still a neighbor.

1:03:22And I think to respect it would be a

1:03:24would be a better way to do it. Um, so I

1:03:27would take the I would propose to take

1:03:30the facade, you know, of the two big

1:03:33statements, the one that faces Darity

1:03:36Street, I think, makes a better a better

1:03:38statement because it does address the

1:03:41the street. I would propose that you

1:03:43flip it around so that the low portion

1:03:45that's now in the back of the building

1:03:47would be on that corner toward the AM

1:03:50church so it wouldn't be so

1:03:51overpowering. and then perhaps an arcade

1:03:55gong Darity Street with people entering

1:03:57the building from that arcade. That way

1:04:00the the Moon Tree is not an

1:04:02afterthought. Right now it's just sort

1:04:04of tucked on the end of this other

1:04:06building that's been designed. If it's

1:04:07it's if you want to keep it, it would um

1:04:12you know, it just sort of backs up

1:04:13against the tall part of the building.

1:04:15This way you take the low part of the

1:04:16building, the tree is is more dominant

1:04:19then. And um so uh that's basically what

1:04:24I'd like you to consider. I think it

1:04:26would be a better piece of architecture

1:04:27if you if you have instead of two big

1:04:30statements, you have one and do it very

1:04:33well. So

1:04:34>> thank you very much.

1:04:40[clears throat]

1:04:42>> Good evening.

1:04:43>> Good evening. My name is Naly Benzing. I

1:04:46live at 140 Seminal Avenue.

1:04:49I'm a member of the Athens Tree Council,

1:04:52which was established 25 years ago to

1:04:54protect the trees of Athens. I'm in

1:04:56favor of keeping the Moon Tree in

1:04:58addition to the pocket park as

1:05:00illustrated on the plan alternative. I

1:05:03like some of your comments you just

1:05:05made. The park, I believe, will offer a

1:05:08place of soloulless. The Moon Tree is a

1:05:12living reminder of resilience. This tree

1:05:15is a piece of our history. A tree whose

1:05:18seed traveled to the moon back,

1:05:20survived, and continues to grow despite

1:05:23it all. Aren't these symbols of peace

1:05:26and resilience exactly what we want in

1:05:29front of our courthouse?

1:05:31We have hundreds, maybe thousands of

1:05:34parking spots, but we have very few

1:05:37parks and we have only one moon tree.

1:05:40Thank you.

1:05:41>> Thank you, Miss Benzing. Is there anyone

1:05:43else here to speak to any item of old or

1:05:45new business tonight?

1:05:48All right, we'll go ahead and move to

1:05:50commission discussion. Um, there a

1:05:52couple of items that were removed from

1:05:56consent agenda. The first of those was

1:06:00item number three. Commissioner Myers,

1:06:02you asked for discussion of this.

1:06:04Yeah, I just wanted to remove it to

1:06:06speak to it as a chair of the

1:06:08legislative review committee and then

1:06:10put it back onto the consent agenda just

1:06:13to explain it a little bit. Um the

1:06:16directive from the mayor was to look at

1:06:18the modifying consider modifying the

1:06:21definition of family um and the

1:06:23restrictions around that uh for

1:06:26homesteaded

1:06:27properties. Properties where person who

1:06:30owns a house lives in the house. Um well

1:06:33the reason why we are sending it out of

1:06:35committee so quickly was because it

1:06:37became clear very quickly that legally

1:06:41uh we were not in a in a place to do

1:06:43this. This is explained in the agenda

1:06:45report that uh if we if we try loosening

1:06:50the definition of family restriction for

1:06:52homeowners to allow more non-family

1:06:54members to rent with them, we run into

1:06:57legal concerns of what's called the

1:06:59dormant commerce clause of the US

1:07:01Constitution, which basically

1:07:03disapproves of local laws that favor

1:07:05people who live in state versus out of

1:07:07state. uh for some people like myself

1:07:10who was looking at the short-term rental

1:07:12uh ordinance and saying, "Oh, we we have

1:07:14a difference there. We have home

1:07:16occupation short-term rentals, the

1:07:18difference in that case is that our home

1:07:20occupation short-term rental applies to

1:07:23um applies even if the person running

1:07:26the short-term rental is renting it and

1:07:28not owning the house. Um, and so, uh, as

1:07:32much as we wanted to look at this, it

1:07:34became quickly clear that that was not

1:07:37an option to review this at this time.

1:07:40Um, I'd also want to say that anyone who

1:07:44is interested in the family ordinance

1:07:47restriction and how that's applied that

1:07:49they go look at the meeting that we had,

1:07:52which was back in

1:07:55August, I believe, when we discussed

1:07:57this. Um, and there's a good uh

1:08:00discussion enduring that from code

1:08:02enforcement and the the police

1:08:04department about why it's so difficult

1:08:07or how how that ordinance is being

1:08:10enforced. And the surprising thing for

1:08:12me on that was that the numbers reveal

1:08:14that there actually are very few um

1:08:17reports made though it's a big

1:08:19discussion in town. uh there aren't as

1:08:22many people who are reporting this to

1:08:23code enforcement and having going

1:08:25through the process um which which is

1:08:28hard to find against a person but there

1:08:31are not many people putting in

1:08:32violation. So anyway, I [snorts] just

1:08:34wanted to report that and make sure that

1:08:37it's clear and let that go back onto

1:08:40consent agenda assuming others want it

1:08:42back on the consent agenda.

1:08:43>> Thanks Commissioner Link.

1:08:45>> Yeah. Um I'm a little disappointed that

1:08:48we're not able to um move forward with

1:08:50this. Um and I' I've brought this up on

1:08:54in multiple times and in multiple

1:08:56meetings and retreats. Um I would really

1:08:58love to see us pursue some kind of um

1:09:02alternative special use permit process

1:09:04that would allow

1:09:08for

1:09:09some of these um single family homes to

1:09:13allow more than two unrelated people in

1:09:15them. if they meet certain conditions.

1:09:17Um ha have each of the properties be

1:09:21analyzed um much like you know we were

1:09:24doing with with short-term rentals. I

1:09:26know it was a lot. Um you know those

1:09:28properties all came before us one by

1:09:30one. I'd also like to see us require a

1:09:33home occupation

1:09:34license or some kind of licensing for um

1:09:38any property operating more than say

1:09:41three bedrooms. um maybe redefining our

1:09:43boarding house definition. I believe

1:09:46there's ways we can get at this issue um

1:09:50and allowing responsible homeowners to

1:09:53have tenants um you know and assure that

1:09:56they have appropriate parking on on site

1:09:58and that their tenants are behaving

1:10:00properly and to also hopefully

1:10:03incentivize um some of the violators.

1:10:07you know, folks who are renting out

1:10:11large houses to way more than two

1:10:13unrelated people. Um, kind of

1:10:15incentivize them to actually um, you

1:10:18know, start obeying the law and and give

1:10:20them the opportunity to um, you know,

1:10:24get a proper license for their activity.

1:10:26And if they can't meet the requirements

1:10:28of such licensing, then maybe they,

1:10:31you know, are no longer allowed to

1:10:32operate like that.

1:10:36got uh Commissioner Wright and then uh

1:10:38Commissioner Davenport.

1:10:39>> Yeah, I wanted to add u one of the

1:10:42examples that we um learned from in the

1:10:44committee was the discussion of um

1:10:48let's just talk about our fees for the

1:10:50roll carts service, the solid waste

1:10:53service. We cannot let someone who has a

1:10:57homestead exemption have a cheaper rate

1:11:00than a house that doesn't have a

1:11:02homestead exemption. So Melissa, what we

1:11:05were learning was it you just because

1:11:07you have a homestead exemption, you

1:11:09cannot have a privilege of a service or

1:11:13of something um of a different category.

1:11:15It has to be the same for everybody. And

1:11:18so in this respect, you can't have new

1:11:21rules for somebody in the in the vein of

1:11:25residency and in respect to ordinances

1:11:28that are met or not met. So that was one

1:11:31of the Did I say that right? The way we

1:11:34were talking about that.

1:11:35>> And so um and then also understanding

1:11:38that to um for code enforcement they

1:11:42have to monitor for 90 days and there

1:11:46has to be proof of the residency

1:11:49for over 30 days

1:11:52within that 90day block. And so we back

1:11:55to the August I guess it'd be the first

1:11:57Thursday in August meeting. We had a lot

1:11:59of those details come forward and we we

1:12:02learned a lot and and I think also while

1:12:04we were uh discussing the accessory

1:12:07dwelling units, we also had some lessons

1:12:10that we learned as a group on how uh you

1:12:14can't have different rules for different

1:12:16people based on their residency or their

1:12:19own property.

1:12:22>> Commissioner Davenport.

1:12:23>> Yeah, thank you. So yeah, I saw them

1:12:25watch the meeting online and um it was

1:12:27so I did encourage my colleagues to go

1:12:30back and visit it because that was a lot

1:12:31of good question asked by our fellow

1:12:32commissioners. Um I do I'm just

1:12:35wondering from Jud can we get an

1:12:38explanation um and is and maybe I missed

1:12:42it but Austin he explained it but um can

1:12:44he send us a memo as to um the US

1:12:48Constitution?

1:12:49>> I think he prepared one. I'll resend it

1:12:51out.

1:12:52>> Okay. if he's if he prepared one, can

1:12:54you resend it? But um you know, of

1:12:55course, I'm happy with this um coming

1:12:57back as is. Um but I did um I think it

1:13:01was like 43 homes last year that were

1:13:03cited or had been called in on for um RS

1:13:09zone, single family residents, having

1:13:11multiple um relatives or multiple people

1:13:14living in 43 seems very low when you

1:13:17consider district three. Um, but I'm

1:13:20getting a lot of calls from like Cedar

1:13:22Creek and Metal Creek. Well, not Metal

1:13:24Creek. Um, um,

1:13:27uh, well, not to name the the

1:13:29neighborhoods, but

1:13:31um, and so I just questioned how how

1:13:34that 43 number I think it was 43 came

1:13:37about.

1:13:38>> Yeah, I think that I think 43 is the

1:13:41correct number. And those were actual

1:13:43complaints, formal complaints filed and

1:13:45received.

1:13:47calls to commissioners don't constitute

1:13:49complaints. Certainly, I know you all

1:13:51are hearing from more folks than her

1:13:53actually filing in an official complaint

1:13:56with it. But that that's what that was

1:13:57referring to. And if you and I can't

1:13:58remember the exact numbers, but the vast

1:14:01majority of those ultimately came into

1:14:04compliance on their own without any

1:14:05additional enforcement. I think it were

1:14:06like two or three that ended up into

1:14:09some kind of um legal kind of

1:14:12proceedings associated with those. But

1:14:14yes, I mean certainly I have no doubt

1:14:16that you all are hearing many more than

1:14:17those, but until they become a

1:14:19complaint, they don't enter into that

1:14:22enforcement provisions, which themselves

1:14:24are difficult, but that's what that 43

1:14:26was referring to.

1:14:28>> Thank you,

1:14:29>> Commissioner Co Pepper.

1:14:31>> Yeah, and that was uh that study was

1:14:33over a four-year period. So that was 43

1:14:35complaints over four years. Very small,

1:14:39>> which is surprising.

1:14:42Commissioner Myers.

1:14:43>> Yeah, I I do want to say be uh that

1:14:46those documents are all still available.

1:14:48Sometimes things from previous meetings

1:14:51are are off somewhere else. But if you

1:14:54go to that um August uh on the calendar

1:14:57to August 6, I believe it is, and you

1:15:01look under the LRC meeting, there's a

1:15:03bunch of attachments including all of

1:15:05the uh cases that were filed and whether

1:15:09or not they were uh you know, unfounded,

1:15:12compliance, all the the outcome of each

1:15:15case. So um it is it is surprising. It

1:15:17was surprising to see the the small

1:15:20number.

1:15:21>> If you want to fall asleep tonight, uh

1:15:23the case law involved a case from New

1:15:26Orleans in which it was determined that

1:15:28you couldn't treat an outofstate uh

1:15:31owner of a property differently from

1:15:33somebody who owned that property in New

1:15:35Orleans and lived in New Orleans. So, uh

1:15:38ah the law. Uh Commissioner Link.

1:15:40>> Yeah, I have a question. Um, does a

1:15:42complaint mean that somebody is it only

1:15:44considered a complaint if the

1:15:46complainant leaves their name and agrees

1:15:50to like

1:15:51investigation?

1:15:52>> It would be a connection into code

1:15:54enforcement and so indicating through

1:15:56code enforcement that there is this

1:15:59issue that they would then follow up

1:16:00with an investigation. Typically what we

1:16:03hear is, you know, you all get you see

1:16:05somebody at an event or they call you or

1:16:07they email you and they say, "Hey, all

1:16:09this stuff is going on." and it's never

1:16:11actually then followed through with a

1:16:13contact in the code force, not from you

1:16:14all, but from from them, that's what

1:16:16would constitute. So, no, they don't

1:16:18need to actually, you know, it's not a

1:16:20um it's not like you're filing an action

1:16:23of the magistrate or police or anything.

1:16:25It's just starting a code enforcement um

1:16:27case. I just want to also be clear um my

1:16:30proposal to come up with a modified

1:16:32special use permit process. I would say,

1:16:36you know, if the homestead exemption is

1:16:38a criteria that comes, you know, against

1:16:42the constitution, that wouldn't be among

1:16:44the criteria. We'd look at stuff like

1:16:46parking, number of bathrooms, um, you

1:16:50know, trash hookup, just come up

1:16:54buffers, size of the lot. Um, you know,

1:16:57those are the kind of things that that,

1:17:00um, folks are more concerned with.

1:17:02They're they're more disturbed by a

1:17:04household full of like four or five

1:17:06young people throwing parties and

1:17:08blocking driveways and mailboxes um,

1:17:11than the fact that they're living there

1:17:13at all. So, and you know, a lot of the

1:17:14the problems come from properties where

1:17:16really [snorts] that large number of

1:17:19people coming and going is just too many

1:17:21for such a small lot, especially in our

1:17:23in town neighborhoods that are have tiny

1:17:25little lots and skinny little streets.

1:17:28>> For 20 years of my professional life, I

1:17:30advise teenagers to act like you belong

1:17:32where you are. And uh if one follows a

1:17:35few simple things, probably not going to

1:17:38get a call to code enforcement. All

1:17:39right, everybody. Okay with us back on

1:17:41consent.

1:17:42All right, moving on to item number

1:17:44five. Commissioner Davenport, you asked

1:17:45for a discussion of this.

1:17:46>> Yeah. Um, so just reviewing last week's

1:17:51work session. I was just wondering what

1:17:53does this body think about? Um, cuz the

1:17:56agenda item really spoke in favor well

1:17:58to me. I interpreted as speaking in

1:18:00favor of the smokers then, but um the

1:18:02police department seem to be cramped in

1:18:04the current space um based on the space

1:18:08allocation um review that we had last

1:18:10Tuesday.

1:18:12But um you know just you know I'm all

1:18:15for

1:18:18>> management. Do do you want to provide

1:18:19any context for

1:18:21BD downtown space?

1:18:23>> Yeah. So in the space allocation plan

1:18:26draft uh y'all will be presented that

1:18:29plan in the coming months. It does

1:18:31identify that PD downtown need space.

1:18:33Now the majority of that is actually on

1:18:35the storage front. Um,

1:18:38this could be accomplished in the

1:18:40current uh space that's held by the

1:18:43commercial tenant, but it also could be

1:18:45accomplished perhaps offsite uh in an

1:18:48adjacent parking deck or in another

1:18:49county facility. So, given that you all

1:18:53have not yet accepted that plan, that

1:18:54there's a business in place and that

1:18:56this is a three-year agreement, it

1:18:58became our recommendation that y'all

1:19:00could renew this lease pretty low risk.

1:19:02>> Yeah. And I think the chief indicated um

1:19:04also at that I think at that same

1:19:06meeting that you know we have shared

1:19:08with you all that we'll be relocating

1:19:10redeploying one of the co-response units

1:19:12into downtown and that he believes the

1:19:15current facility can accommodate that

1:19:17predominantly because he expects them to

1:19:19be out of the office and stuff but so I

1:19:21don't want to pretend it's not crowded.

1:19:23I think there there are definitely

1:19:25challenges but I think there are ways we

1:19:26can manage through that piece.

1:19:28>> Got Commissioner Hamby and Commissioner

1:19:30Link.

1:19:31>> Sure. I'll be quick, mayor. This comes

1:19:32up every three years when this person's

1:19:34in and this business's uh lease comes

1:19:37up. And it's unfortunate because this

1:19:39this business has been down here for 30

1:19:42years. And for us for us to just I don't

1:19:45know. I'm just let's just let's just

1:19:48stop doing this. The police will find a

1:19:50good spot. We'll we'll make sure the

1:19:52police are well taken care of, but let's

1:19:54don't just dismiss a business that's

1:19:56been downtown for 30 years and and

1:19:59paying their rent every month and uh and

1:20:02not causing any trouble. So, thank you,

1:20:05>> Commissioner Link.

1:20:06>> Yeah. Um my concern is, you know, we're

1:20:09facing extraordinary challenges with our

1:20:12homeless population downtown and um I'm

1:20:17just one and this I believe this is the

1:20:19only one of our um county owned spaces

1:20:22that we rent to a a business that isn't

1:20:25rented to a nonprofit agency um or some

1:20:29some agency that has, you know, some

1:20:31connection to serving the community. Um,

1:20:34I just wonder if, you know, in the

1:20:35foreseeable future, we might could use

1:20:37this space to deal with that

1:20:39homelessness issue by stationing um,

1:20:42service providers there who are going

1:20:44out into the streets and and moving

1:20:46folks to more appropriate places. I

1:20:49mean, we really need a day center. We we

1:20:51need a place to get folks [snorts]

1:20:53where they can hang out safely without

1:20:56disturbing the rest of the community and

1:20:58and getting some assistance.

1:21:00Um, you know, I really think we need to

1:21:02discuss more like the highest and best

1:21:05use for county property, especially

1:21:08downtown.

1:21:10>> Everybody okay with this on consent or

1:21:12do you want to leave it on discussion?

1:21:13Commissioner Johnson?

1:21:19>> So, I am interested in this item because

1:21:21I want to talk about thirdand smoke. I

1:21:24visited the parking services building

1:21:27where you go pay tickets. I was um

1:21:30accompanying someone that received a

1:21:32ticket and they just wanted to pay it

1:21:33before we left downtown. And as soon as

1:21:35we walked into the space to pay the

1:21:37ticket, the um parking ticket, we were

1:21:39hit with smoke and I asked without

1:21:43thinking, "Are you you smoke in here?

1:21:45You can smoke in the building like in

1:21:46here?" And she said, "No, it's from the

1:21:48the smoke shop next door." So there is

1:21:51such thing as third-hand smoke. and um

1:21:54just breathing contaminated air um poses

1:21:58a challenge to children, pregnant women,

1:22:01people any individual individuals with

1:22:03asthma or immuno compromise. That's a

1:22:05serious concern and I know those are not

1:22:08questions we can ask on interviews when

1:22:09we're interviewing for staff to work in

1:22:12that space. Also, according to the

1:22:15national I mean this is according to the

1:22:16National Institute of Health. Um

1:22:19I wanted to ask is smoke or smoking

1:22:24Does it? I'm sorry. I want to ask about

1:22:26the lease and if it explicitly states

1:22:28whether smoking, vaping, cigar sampling,

1:22:31or operating a smoking lounge is

1:22:33prohibited. Um, where smoking is

1:22:35permitted.

1:22:37>> If there's any responsibility on either

1:22:39part for environmental ventilation

1:22:41assessment on a regular basis.

1:22:45>> Quick search of the last lease we had.

1:22:47This one being a template of it. it does

1:22:49not speak to smoking.

1:22:51>> And and broadly, I I don't know if um

1:22:54planning director Lonnie is still here,

1:22:55but there is a provision of our um

1:22:59planning and zoning code that allows

1:23:01indoor smoking in those uh businesses

1:23:05that exclusively sell those products.

1:23:07So, that's a component piece of existing

1:23:09code. So my next question would be has

1:23:12Athesis Clark County evaluated potential

1:23:15secondhand and thirdand smoke exposure

1:23:18vent ventilation impacts insurance

1:23:20implications and future remediation

1:23:22costs. Has that been evaluated as this

1:23:24lease has been um renewed every three

1:23:27years? Has that evaluated ever? I mean

1:23:30when you anyone can go into the parking

1:23:32services building and smoke will hit you

1:23:34very strongly at the front door. It's

1:23:38it's it's not subtle at all.

1:23:40>> No evaluation's been completed.

1:23:43>> Are there is there an appetite or any

1:23:45interest in doing so for the protection

1:23:46of the employees that work in that

1:23:48space?

1:23:49>> Um so

1:23:51freelancing here a bit what the manager

1:23:54always likes to hear.

1:23:55>> This is the first time I've heard of a

1:23:57complaint. U

1:23:58>> no I'm not compl I mean no one's made a

1:24:00complaint. I'm just bringing this up.

1:24:01>> In my tenure with central services and

1:24:03with the government, I haven't heard the

1:24:04the police speak of smoke. I haven't

1:24:06heard of downtown parking speak of

1:24:08smoke. That doesn't mean that it doesn't

1:24:10exist. Just means that it's never been a

1:24:13complaint that's risen to the facilities

1:24:15management standpoint. So with that,

1:24:17there's been no reason to conduct an

1:24:19assessment.

1:24:20>> I would like to ask there there be

1:24:23consideration for some type of

1:24:25assessment. And I will say this, some

1:24:27people don't know what they can ask for.

1:24:29Um, and this was a young person that was

1:24:31sitting at the desk and that they're not

1:24:34probably thinking about their health as

1:24:35much as I think about my health at my

1:24:38age, but I do know secondhand and

1:24:40third-hand smoke is a real thing and

1:24:42people actually develop lung cancer um

1:24:44from third-hand smoke um all the time.

1:24:46It's a real issue and I I do understand

1:24:48how it's not on the forefront on

1:24:50someone's mind. they're happy to

1:24:51probably have a job. But it's something

1:24:54it's I see this as a responsible thing

1:24:56to do to evaluate that that um that

1:25:00space. I'm not sure how it smells in the

1:25:04police department, but it is clear at

1:25:06the front door of the parking services

1:25:09building. And if many people are going

1:25:11to pay tickets, more people are exposed

1:25:13to the same thing.

1:25:16>> Question.

1:25:16>> Uh Commissioner Fischer.

1:25:17>> Yeah. [clears throat] Um, do we have a

1:25:20smoking ban ordinance though in Clark

1:25:23County? Is there a smoking ban?

1:25:24>> Yeah,

1:25:25>> I think as was mentioned by the mayor in

1:25:27instances where a business's primary

1:25:30respons or primary business is actually

1:25:32selling tobacco products and other kind

1:25:34of things as this is they are actually

1:25:36able to act there can be smoking inside

1:25:39that that business not not to come in

1:25:42and smoke but actually as a part of the

1:25:44business um part of it. [clears throat]

1:25:45No.

1:25:46>> So, so if you go in, you can smoke. If

1:25:49you go into that establishment,

1:25:50>> it's a back area.

1:25:52>> Yeah. In the What was that?

1:25:55>> Like a hookah lounge.

1:25:56>> I believe there's a back area that's

1:25:58glassed in that is separate. So, if you

1:26:01were going in and I do believe the last

1:26:03time or one of the times this lease had

1:26:05come up before they had um done some

1:26:09improvements on checking the filters and

1:26:11everything and the improvements were um

1:26:15noted noticeable.

1:26:18And I don't know anything about

1:26:19>> it could just be a maintenance

1:26:20>> and I don't know anything about like the

1:26:21ventilation systems if there's any

1:26:22connection or crossovers from those or

1:26:24if it's just because of how the

1:26:26construction. I mean those are things we

1:26:28would if there was an interest in doing

1:26:29some kind of assessment like that. Those

1:26:31are things we would have to actually

1:26:33>> I'm going to agree with Commissioner

1:26:34Johnson then let's do an assessment and

1:26:36find out if there's any

1:26:39um smoke that's actually going into the

1:26:41parking area where people paying parking

1:26:43if you know. Now, there may not be a

1:26:44consensus among my colleagues, but I I

1:26:47will support that recommendation from

1:26:49her also to take a look at that because

1:26:51I I'll be honest with you, I thought

1:26:53that was a smoking van. I I didn't

1:26:54realize about the one inside the

1:26:56building,

1:26:56>> right? Just kind of a carve out

1:26:58associated with that.

1:26:59>> And so, just to if if this can stay on

1:27:04consent and have that be happening at

1:27:07the

1:27:08>> Yeah, that's right.

1:27:08>> in the background, so to speak. But I

1:27:11believe that they assessed making sure

1:27:13like the bathrooms, um, the vents

1:27:16anyway. I believe that there's probably

1:27:18some paperwork to go with.

1:27:20>> You're correct. Very much so,

1:27:21Commissioner Wright that this was looked

1:27:23at last time this lease was signed.

1:27:25>> When was the last time though?

1:27:26>> Three years ago.

1:27:27>> Three years ago.

1:27:28>> We'll produce the paperwork and let's

1:27:30see.

1:27:31>> That's fine.

1:27:32>> I haven't heard yet from Commissioner

1:27:34Myers or Commissioner Taylor. And then

1:27:35I've got Commissioner Link.

1:27:38Oh, that's me first. [clears throat]

1:27:40Yeah. Uh, I was just remembering that we

1:27:43actually did revise the um the smoking

1:27:46ordinances so that we are a uh so that

1:27:50we would be on the list of the American

1:27:52Red Cross um smoke-free communities. And

1:27:55if I remember correctly, there was a

1:27:59carve out for businesses that exist to

1:28:04smell to to you know as to sell smoking

1:28:08products that have already in existence.

1:28:10So we we do have a smoking ban and

1:28:14smoking ordinances. Um I'd have to

1:28:16review them, but I do remember that

1:28:18being an exception there for so that you

1:28:20weren't affecting it. Now whether or not

1:28:22the

1:28:24they're following all environmental

1:28:26regulations is another thing I don't

1:28:28know but I wanted to point out that we

1:28:30were an American Red Cross smoke-free

1:28:34community.

1:28:35>> Got a quick I know. Can I ask a quick

1:28:36question?

1:28:37>> Yeah. Yeah. If you have a follow up.

1:28:38>> Yeah. Okay. So, so we're clear.

1:28:42Any establishment then that sells

1:28:44tobacco products can a person actively

1:28:47smoke in that establishment? It's not

1:28:48any establishment that sells tobacco and

1:28:50we'll get the ordinance language for

1:28:51you, Commissioner. Um, but generically,

1:28:54it's those that exclusively sell smoking

1:28:58products.

1:28:58>> Thank you. Okay, that's fine.

1:28:59>> But but we'll get the ordinance language

1:29:01so everybody sees that.

1:29:02>> I have one more thing after the last

1:29:04person.

1:29:05>> I'll get Commissioner Taylor Link and

1:29:07then back to Commissioner Johnson.

1:29:08>> So, just to follow up. Um, so if a new

1:29:11store were to come online, that carveout

1:29:14would also include them, not just

1:29:16already established.

1:29:18>> I believe that's the case, but let me

1:29:20not say that in a verified 100% way

1:29:22because I want to make sure that

1:29:23language is in front of everybody

1:29:25because I've not looked at it in quite a

1:29:26while.

1:29:26>> Yeah.

1:29:26>> Yeah, I think obviously we can forward

1:29:28the the ordinance so that you can

1:29:30actually see it yourself.

1:29:31>> Okay. Thank you.

1:29:33>> Uh, Commissioner Lincoln, then Johnson.

1:29:35I I'd be in favor in of limiting this to

1:29:39a one-year lease so

1:29:41we as a body and as a government can

1:29:44better better assess um this space and

1:29:47the potential um our potential need for

1:29:51this space either as a local government

1:29:53or for agencies that are actually

1:29:56interacting with the community um

1:29:59especially the homeless community so we

1:30:01can start you know have a better shot at

1:30:03tackling some of our downtown issues.

1:30:06Commissioner Johnson.

1:30:08>> Yes. I would I am okay with it being on

1:30:12consent, but I wanted to ask while it's

1:30:14on consent, could you add language to it

1:30:16that would protect the the unified

1:30:18government like into the like into the

1:30:20lease or may maybe you can't leave it on

1:30:22consent if you make a change, but I'm

1:30:23I'm asking here um that assigns

1:30:26responsibility for smoke remediation,

1:30:28ventilation, cleaning, odor removal, or

1:30:31damage caused by tobacco residue and

1:30:34damage meaning cancer. um that I would

1:30:37like that to be clearly

1:30:40spelled out

1:30:42>> in the event that someone down the line

1:30:44says I worked there three years and now

1:30:46I have lung cancer and I never smoked a

1:30:47day in my life. If that language of who

1:30:50is responsible for that future phone

1:30:51call

1:30:52>> I think if there was if there was

1:30:54interest from the body to make to

1:30:57suggest to the tenant a change in the

1:30:59lease of that of that regard we we could

1:31:01do that and probably then would not be a

1:31:03consent agenda item. we would probably

1:31:05because we would have to come back and

1:31:06actually talk about um the item

1:31:08>> given the volume of questions here.

1:31:10We'll leave it off consent and um and

1:31:12we'll follow up with some of the

1:31:13information that folks asked about.

1:31:15>> Thank you.

1:31:16>> All right. Thanks everybody. All right.

1:31:17Uh moving on to item 12. Uh

1:31:21recurrent uh discussion here. The naming

1:31:23of the East Broad Bridge. Would anyone

1:31:25like to opine Commissioner?

1:31:29>> I'll consent. Um there's some

1:31:33>> Okay. So, just a little history here.

1:31:36Um, Miss Barbara Barnett, um, one of our

1:31:39neighborhood leaders, um, came to me two

1:31:42and a half years ago wanting to rename

1:31:44that bridge after her mom. And I, at

1:31:46that time, two and a half years ago,

1:31:48prior to some of the new commissioners

1:31:50coming on, I sent everybody an email. um

1:31:53she came and spoke and she gave a brief

1:31:56history about like her mom we name that

1:31:58wanted um her mom getting that bridge

1:32:01put in place and it was just a historic

1:32:04moment. I had no idea that we dee was

1:32:07going was doing another petition to do a

1:32:11um to do to rename that bridge. So I was

1:32:14kind of caught off guard and um but he

1:32:18got his application in. He did

1:32:20everything legitimate legitimately. Um

1:32:23however um when we wrote that ordinance

1:32:26about seven eight years ago could have

1:32:28been yeah six years ago. Um one of the

1:32:30thing that Commissioner Edwards

1:32:33like stated was you know we want to make

1:32:36sure that that person when we rename our

1:32:38facilities that that person has been

1:32:40deceased at least two years. So I've

1:32:43worked um worked with both parties. Um

1:32:46and I thought we had a compromise. Um, I

1:32:49would just need to speak with central

1:32:50services to to see if it's feasible.

1:32:53But, um, the main thing is that, uh,

1:32:57Barbara, she's been working diligently

1:32:58for two years to try to get the

1:33:00signatures. I believe in her effort. Um,

1:33:03but I also understand the legality that,

1:33:06um, Weaver D got his name in on time.

1:33:09Um, he did everything right. So, um I

1:33:14can give another crack at and try to

1:33:15figure out uh a a compromise, but that,

1:33:19you know, honestly, there are just two

1:33:20honest good people who just want that

1:33:23bridge named after different um for

1:33:27different reasons.

1:33:29Remind me, uh Manager Caller, assistant

1:33:31manager Saunders, what's the

1:33:35volume of names?

1:33:37>> Thousand. A thousand.

1:33:38>> It's a thousand. Thank you. All right. I

1:33:40was just trying to remember. Um,

1:33:42Commissioner Wright.

1:33:43>> Um, yes. I I um am looking at the dates

1:33:46of this agenda item, November 5th, 2025.

1:33:49I'm not sure why it wasn't in front of

1:33:51us at that point to vote. Uh, it did

1:33:55come forward. I feel like this year

1:33:57several times that's where the March

1:33:5812th date is and now the next round was

1:34:01July 21, but now we're voting on it um

1:34:05here in September. And we do have the

1:34:09protocols and the steps. And I'm not

1:34:12saying that the Bernett recognition

1:34:14isn't warranted, but it did not follow

1:34:17the check all the boxes. It's needed.

1:34:19And the Weaver D application did. Um,

1:34:23and I believe the um

1:34:27past tense of the person being named is

1:34:30for facilities and a bridge is not a

1:34:33facility is what I thought was the

1:34:35difference on that one. Am I freelancing

1:34:37it there?

1:34:40>> The nuance here is that it's a business

1:34:42name. So, it's not the Dexter Weaver

1:34:44Bridge, but it's the Weaver D's

1:34:46automatic for the people bridge.

1:34:47>> Okay. So, it doesn't need to have that

1:34:51three-year part to it because it's more

1:34:54of a phrase than um an official name of

1:34:58a person. Okay. Thank you for that. And

1:35:01um it definitely doesn't need to be on

1:35:03consent because there's clearly

1:35:04additional um things that are happening.

1:35:08And then I'm also wanting to hear from

1:35:10the other side of the bridge. I'm on one

1:35:12side and Tiffany, you have the other

1:35:13side.

1:35:14>> Oh, I do.

1:35:15>> Got uh Commissioner Taylor then

1:35:17Commissioner Link. Yeah, I um

1:35:21I I you know get all of the things when

1:35:25I when um they came before us the last

1:35:28time before it um we tabled it. Um Miss

1:35:32Bernett passed out a p a pamphlet. Um

1:35:36and in the picture it was of her her mom

1:35:39and I'm I'm guessing like the

1:35:41representatives at the time. Um, and so

1:35:45for for me, the fact that she sacrificed

1:35:50to even get the bridge. Um, and I know I

1:35:53I know formalities, I know um, you know,

1:35:57the process, but also she also had a

1:36:00disadvantage because she did not have a

1:36:02restaurant where UG students could come

1:36:04in and sign their name and order food

1:36:08and go on about their day. She actually

1:36:10had to knock on doors. not only did she

1:36:13have to knock on doors, but she also got

1:36:15some of her co-workers to also knock on

1:36:18doors. And so I think that her her hard

1:36:20work as well as her mom's hard work

1:36:23should also be established whether we,

1:36:26you know, put a plaque for Mr. Weaver

1:36:29and name the bridge the Jesse Barnett

1:36:31Bridge because without Jesse Barnett,

1:36:34there would not be a bridge. And so for

1:36:37me, you know, I think that there is a

1:36:40way that we um can do this the right

1:36:43way. Um

1:36:46yeah, I I'll stop there. I'll stop

1:36:48there.

1:36:49>> I will note that as a matter of existing

1:36:51infrastructure, there are two parallel

1:36:53bridges.

1:36:53>> There is

1:36:54>> immediately next to one another

1:36:56>> and should commissioners like to enjoy a

1:36:59set of weekend afternoons out, I would

1:37:01be glad to do some of the canvasing

1:37:03necessary to get the requisite

1:37:04signatures. So that's right. I think

1:37:06that's a solution that could be in the

1:37:08making, friends. So, Commissioner Link.

1:37:10>> Yeah, I agree with Commissioner Taylor.

1:37:12Um, I spoke with U. Miss Barbara

1:37:15Barnett. It was probably two close to

1:37:18two years ago and she mentioned she was

1:37:21undertaking this effort and, you know,

1:37:23I'd heard tales of Jesse Barnett and all

1:37:26her accomplishments for decades. Um, you

1:37:29know, it it's clear that Miss Jesse

1:37:31Barnett clearly warrants having a piece

1:37:34of infrastructure named after her. Um,

1:37:37you know, she doesn't necessarily have

1:37:38the star power of Mr. Weaver or that,

1:37:42you know, the existing popular business

1:37:44to gather those signatures. So, I can

1:37:46see how it, you know, she was

1:37:47challenged. I really hope we can come up

1:37:49with a compromise um so we can assure

1:37:52that Jesse Barnett gets a bridge named

1:37:55after her, a bridge that she actually

1:37:56helped bring to this community and among

1:37:59a long list of other things that she got

1:38:03done. Um, so yeah, um, I mean I I could

1:38:08see Weber's having a nice historical

1:38:10plaque because it certainly does have a

1:38:13name out there in the greater world, but

1:38:16you know that Miss Barnett has a direct

1:38:19connection to the actual existence of

1:38:21that bridge.

1:38:23>> Commissioner Myers.

1:38:24>> Yeah, a couple of things. Um, one just

1:38:27in in terms of the administrative

1:38:29comments at the at the end of the j the

1:38:31agenda report uh pull out a sentence

1:38:34from the policy that says Athensclar

1:38:37County Commission may make exceptions to

1:38:39this policy when warranted by

1:38:41exceptional circumstances. And this

1:38:43clearly seems like an exceptional

1:38:44circumstance where there are two people,

1:38:48entities, businesses, memories of that

1:38:51that deserve being honored in there. Um,

1:38:55and I also I looked really carefully

1:38:56about that name kind of thing the last

1:38:59time we went through this. And I believe

1:39:00in the agenda report it says that the

1:39:03exception is is because it's a cultural

1:39:06institution. Not because it's a

1:39:08business, but it's a cultural

1:39:09institution. Weaver D's. So, um, and

1:39:12that, you know, that makes sense. It is

1:39:13a cultural institution.

1:39:15>> Okay. I'm here. I'm here.

1:39:17>> Okay. Okay. [snorts] Um anyway, so I I'd

1:39:21like to I'd love if one of the

1:39:24commissioners from the area or or

1:39:26connected to the families would make

1:39:28some kind of commission to find option

1:39:30on this. I mean this is an honorarium. I

1:39:33mean no one lives on the bridge. It's

1:39:34not going to be in anyone's address and

1:39:36there are two directions to the bridge.

1:39:39So there's also the bridge for Jesse

1:39:41Barnett. It was a big deal connecting

1:39:44East Athens to the community. So perhaps

1:39:48one response would be to have her name

1:39:50on one side of the bridge and Weaver D's

1:39:52on another. Um I I although I love the

1:39:55bicycle bridge and the pedestrian

1:39:58bridge, it is um sort of sort of

1:40:02subservient to the main bridge where we

1:40:04have that that photograph of of Miss

1:40:07Barnett. I I look forward to supporting

1:40:10whatever kind of CDO comes forward from

1:40:13my colleagues who represent the area or

1:40:15the families involved.

1:40:17>> Commissioner Davenport.

1:40:18>> All right. Finally. So, um just heads

1:40:21up. Um I was told that

1:40:25certain people did what they were told

1:40:28to do and they don't want to make it a

1:40:30legal issue. So, I'm just trying to let

1:40:33y'all know that um

1:40:36people feel that they did everything

1:40:38fair and square and that bridge should

1:40:40be renamed after what they were got the

1:40:43signatures for. So, with that being

1:40:46said, if anybody would like to to help

1:40:48me or, you know, I can

1:40:52try to throw another give another swing

1:40:55at this and get people, you know, to

1:40:58compromise. But I did um we did sit at

1:41:01city hall about two months ago. We had

1:41:03an agreement. Um I just need central

1:41:06services.

1:41:08It's less of services. One is the bridge

1:41:10is leaders of services, right? And the

1:41:12other one is central services.

1:41:14>> TPW.

1:41:14>> TPW. Um so the question the last time I

1:41:18spoke with both parties was the question

1:41:20was where the plaque was going to be.

1:41:23So, if I can I don't know the

1:41:24administrative of how big that thing is

1:41:27going to be or is it going to be a

1:41:29standalone brick, but if it's just a

1:41:32plaque that you put on something, I

1:41:35think we have a compromise because

1:41:37that's what we agreed upon two months

1:41:39ago, it would just um Commissioner

1:41:42Devport, given your willingness to

1:41:44venture into this space, would you sit

1:41:46with myself and representative of the

1:41:48manager's office in the next couple of

1:41:50days?

1:41:50>> Yes.

1:41:51>> All right.

1:41:51>> Yeah, let's do it. All right, that's our

1:41:53story. We're sticking to it.

1:41:54>> Okay.

1:41:54>> All right, we're going to move on to

1:41:55item number 13. Uh, this was just an

1:41:58amendment to the FEMA assistance and

1:42:00firefighters grant acceptance that was

1:42:03previously before you.

1:42:04>> Consent.

1:42:05>> Consent.

1:42:06>> All right. Beautiful.

1:42:07>> Chief.

1:42:10>> Okay. Thanks everybody for crunching the

1:42:12numbers. All right. Uh, new business.

1:42:14Item 14 is the previously discussed

1:42:17street sales ordinance changes. Input on

1:42:20this item.

1:42:21>> Well, Certainly, but is there some input

1:42:23right now of substance? Uh, Commissioner

1:42:24Link.

1:42:25>> Yeah. Um, I have mixed feelings about

1:42:27this because I feel like, um, street

1:42:29bending adds to the vibrancy of our town

1:42:33and in any city, you know. Um, I I could

1:42:36see maybe restricting the food bending a

1:42:39little to assure that maybe grease isn't

1:42:42one of the items that is needed to

1:42:45prepare the food. um you know maybe

1:42:48limiting the certain spaces within

1:42:50college college square but I I I

1:42:56eliminating it all together I I I don't

1:42:58feel is appropriate. You know we we want

1:43:00that diverse activity in our community

1:43:03and in our in our gathering spaces. I

1:43:05think of like all the movies out there

1:43:07where people stroll up to a co the hot

1:43:10dog cart, you know, and buy their kid an

1:43:12ice cream cone. Um, you know, I really

1:43:15feel like that's part of the experience

1:43:18of living in a city is is being able to

1:43:20stroll by and grab a snack and wander

1:43:23on.

1:43:25>> Commissioner Fischer.

1:43:26>> Yeah,

1:43:28I agree with um Commissioner Link. Um, I

1:43:31got a couple of questions though. Um,

1:43:35are we going to continue to let vendors

1:43:38um be downtown when we have events?

1:43:41That's one question. Um, and then

1:43:44secondly, from what I read is on the two

1:43:46vendors that's constantly down.

1:43:51So, are we saying the compromise may be

1:43:56again that's why I'm asking the

1:43:56question, are we going to continue to

1:43:57have vendors downtown doing this when we

1:43:59do all these event? The compromise could

1:44:02be um with College Square that we still

1:44:06got to have vendors downtown, but

1:44:08College Square may be off. That's what

1:44:10the agenda is about. We're not

1:44:11eliminating. We're not eliminating

1:44:12vendors.

1:44:13>> Well, not according to this.

1:44:14>> Yeah. Just on College Square.

1:44:16>> No.

1:44:16>> All vendors.

1:44:17>> It said it's not according

1:44:20>> It's going to I read I read it the same

1:44:22way Dexter did.

1:44:23>> Yeah. It seems like it said Clayton

1:44:26Street and other parts of downtown. My

1:44:29understand the way I took it, Mike, if I

1:44:31read it wrong, please correct me.

1:44:32>> It's right here.

1:44:33>> The way I took it was

1:44:34>> on the on on the agenda. College Square,

1:44:37College Avenue between Broad Street and

1:44:39Clayton Street.

1:44:41>> Could you clarify, manager cow? I just

1:44:43want to make sure that this is evident

1:44:44to everybody.

1:44:48>> Yeah. I mean, the ordinance has gray

1:44:50shades to highlight additions,

1:44:52strikethroughs to highlight removals.

1:44:54the the main item you would look at here

1:44:57is

1:44:59>> um specifically a call out for College

1:45:01Square that that would not allow sale of

1:45:04food and beverages in College Square if

1:45:06you all chose to adopt this. So in other

1:45:09locations it it would continue to be

1:45:11allowed if

1:45:12>> so my question is if we have special

1:45:15events will pe will vendors be able to

1:45:18use College Square for special events?

1:45:19Yes, I think I think during through the

1:45:21special event permit process, different

1:45:24activities can occur including in

1:45:27College Square. So yes, I think the

1:45:29answer to that would be would be case.

1:45:30>> Well then well then that's an issue for

1:45:32me. So if we're going to do the doing

1:45:34special events, I'm not sure why we got

1:45:36to move vendors out who's been down

1:45:38there for years. So again, and if any

1:45:42vendors were breaking the law of putting

1:45:45um um grease down in the um in our storm

1:45:49water, then they either need to be fined

1:45:51or removed from downtown. But we should

1:45:53not punish people because some vendors

1:45:56didn't follow the rules. And again, if

1:45:58we're not doing what we supposed to do

1:46:00as a coal enforcement, that's on us. But

1:46:02we should not punish vendors who abide

1:46:05by the rules, do what they asked of, and

1:46:07then say, "You got to go. So it kind of

1:46:09contradictory to me if we're going to do

1:46:11this during festivals but then tell

1:46:13business you can't sit up um on the

1:46:16weekends or whenever you know during the

1:46:17night. So that just sort of my guess of

1:46:19it.

1:46:20>> Yeah. And I think it it indicates in the

1:46:21agenda report that there is one instance

1:46:23where there was a code enforcement

1:46:25action taken and that actually resulted

1:46:27I think in some changes in how the

1:46:30permits are allowed to be issued. So

1:46:31there now has to be mats underneath

1:46:33those. That's the only instance that

1:46:35we're aware of that actually required

1:46:37code enforcement interventions.

1:46:39>> So that can be that can be a correction

1:46:41that has already been put in place that

1:46:43we can use then. So

1:46:46>> I've got uh I've got effectively the

1:46:48whole commission lined up to speak here.

1:46:50Uh [laughter] Commissioner Wright is

1:46:52next. Um yeah, I I did want to just

1:46:55bring attention to Jay in the agenda

1:46:57report or actually it's in the ordinance

1:47:00uh as um Andrew had said grayed out

1:47:03areas. Street sales on College Square.

1:47:06It's food and beverages within the

1:47:07square shall be limited to prepackaged

1:47:09foods and beverages. So this is uh you

1:47:12know no on-site cooking or the food

1:47:15prep. And I'm just not sure um the part

1:47:19about a special event and this was all

1:47:21too before food trucks. This was pre

1:47:24food truck. So this is um updating this

1:47:27to the current mode that we have the

1:47:30healthy the the the board of health um

1:47:33oversight and then when it's special

1:47:36events and the ability to have the

1:47:38vending that has additional um

1:47:41checkpoints and authority and um

1:47:44supervision and this is um I think

1:47:48heading off what has already happened as

1:47:52unacceptable

1:47:54um on on the streets and um the fact

1:47:58that we're trying to get it limited to a

1:48:01cleaner, healthier um exchange of

1:48:05consumables is um I think long overdue.

1:48:09So, uh it's obviously not going to be on

1:48:11consent, but I hope that everybody will

1:48:13get their questions into um staff so

1:48:17that they can be answered uh for the

1:48:19totality of the updates that are here

1:48:22before us. Commissioner Johnson,

1:48:24>> I just want to point out to the

1:48:26commission that between July 6th and

1:48:28July 16th, there were a string of emails

1:48:30that asked all these questions and

1:48:32included some answers, but not all the

1:48:34answers. So, I ultimately um worked with

1:48:36the attorney's office to attain um

1:48:39additional information. But I want to

1:48:40start by reading an email from staff

1:48:42that says, "If you've received this

1:48:44email, it's because you currently hold a

1:48:46sidewalk vendor permit from Athens Park

1:48:49County government. As part of the FY12

1:48:51budget process, the mayor commission

1:48:53approved the following increase and then

1:48:56the increase. These new fees are

1:48:57effective July 1st. If you currently

1:49:00have a sidewalk vending site on College

1:49:02Square, you are advised that an agenda

1:49:04report is being submitted in August to

1:49:07mayor commission to eliminate food

1:49:10vendors.

1:49:12It does not say move. It says eliminate

1:49:14food vendors. And that is what I've

1:49:16read. So I wanted to go from there to

1:49:19the ch the issue that I have with this

1:49:22is this is not feel like a staff

1:49:25decision. This is a decision from an

1:49:28intergovernmental um partner. And I'll

1:49:31read you a February 12th email of this

1:49:34year. Angel [clears throat]

1:49:36James, that's the director and

1:49:37operational analyst at the central

1:49:40services department. The ADDA requests a

1:49:43change to the sidewalk vending permit

1:49:45program that excludes all on-site

1:49:47cooking and food preparation on College

1:49:49Square. Given the damage that food

1:49:51vendors inflicted on the recently

1:49:53installed Clayton Street sidewalks,

1:49:55which was two weeks two years before

1:49:57that, we feel food vendors should be

1:49:59prohibited from operating within College

1:50:01Square.

1:50:02The next response to um David Lynn, the

1:50:07dire one of the directors of ADDA to

1:50:09help us under determine if an agenda

1:50:11report will be needed for ordinance

1:50:13changes. We ask that you submit a

1:50:15request in writing to me and James. The

1:50:17issue I have is to determine if an

1:50:20agenda report is necessary for an

1:50:22ordinance change. How can staff make

1:50:24ordinance changes? That's a that's a

1:50:26that's a that's a problem that I have.

1:50:28Commissioner, I I I read into that that

1:50:30staff was trying to determine if there

1:50:31was just an operational change or an

1:50:33ordinance change.

1:50:34>> Well,

1:50:36>> yeah. And ultimately the conclusion was

1:50:38an ordinance change was required to

1:50:39honor what the request was.

1:50:42Well, well, first continuing on the the

1:50:46a letter was submitted um but from staff

1:50:51there was a recommendation from the

1:50:52deputy may deputy mayor deputy [snorts]

1:50:55manager to ask ADDA to put it on

1:50:59letterhead so that we can include it

1:51:00with the agenda. So, I want to pause

1:51:03there and say before I joined the

1:51:05commission and then into last um earlier

1:51:08this year, they the the LRC reviewed um

1:51:12noise ordinance violations in the

1:51:14downtown area for 19 months.

1:51:18This is something that falls in the same

1:51:21space in the same category as something

1:51:23that the LRC should have reviewed. It

1:51:25should not be a It should not be a

1:51:27recommendation. Um before we say if it's

1:51:30right or if it's wrong, if it's fair or

1:51:31if it's not fair, it should not be a

1:51:33recommendation from a none employee to

1:51:37staff for staff to get started on an

1:51:40agenda um before talking to um ma the

1:51:44manager's office, maybe having a work

1:51:46session to bring these issues to our

1:51:48attention to talk about if there are any

1:51:50um remediation steps. It went from this

1:51:53is what I want. We're working on it. Oh,

1:51:56can you provide open can you provide and

1:51:58um um letterheads this on letterhead

1:52:01formal a formal letter which which the

1:52:03adda did. I also want to read a response

1:52:07from the I'm not sure if he's been named

1:52:09director yet but interim director of

1:52:11central services m services Mr. James

1:52:13Alexander, who states, "As it relates to

1:52:16the damage that was done, staff

1:52:19recognizes that multiple potential

1:52:21sources could have contributed to the

1:52:24issue,

1:52:26including another nearby food vendor or

1:52:28other activities occurring within the

1:52:30area." Because of those uncertainty

1:52:33uncertainties, central services did not

1:52:35pursue enforcement based solely on

1:52:37allegations. They coordinated with the

1:52:40health department and all the

1:52:41communication that I received

1:52:44back and forth. All they spoke about was

1:52:48um numerous complaints involving the

1:52:50health department. And when I asked for

1:52:52the complaints, I I I could not get

1:52:55anything. And I was advocating for a man

1:52:58that is a constituent of District 6.

1:53:01He's he's provided for his family by

1:53:05operating a small business in downtown

1:53:07for 23 years without being suspended

1:53:11without a fine. He's not received I

1:53:14asked him earlier today if he had any

1:53:17any paperwork, any any documentation of

1:53:20any wrongdoing. He's and he brought up

1:53:23one time nine years ago, he had too many

1:53:25um um boxes around his vendor space and

1:53:30that was the only issue. So I just want

1:53:32to agree with Commissioner Fiser

1:53:36operating in the College Square space is

1:53:40um is okay. And I and I really am

1:53:44just just curious about the the phrasing

1:53:47of legacy project. you know when I asked

1:53:51the department you know just simply why

1:53:54there are two reasons given it was to

1:53:56protect this um big investment ACC is

1:53:59making and also for the betterment of

1:54:02and enjoyment of all okay so I've then

1:54:07pointed out every ACC building is a

1:54:10public invest is is a big investment um

1:54:13so essentially anywhere you move a food

1:54:15vendor fits the same criteria every

1:54:17investment is is a big investment that

1:54:20that at this Clark County builds. The

1:54:22second thing I ask, how do you how are

1:54:24you going to measure enjoyment,

1:54:27you have many people that are not going

1:54:29to enjoy the same things.

1:54:32And I state um you're going to have

1:54:35people that are street preachers. You're

1:54:38going to have people that are

1:54:38protesters. You're going to have people

1:54:40downtown that are singing. You're going

1:54:42to have people playing music. You're

1:54:43going to have people that are

1:54:44panhandling. You're going to have people

1:54:45that are unhoused. and you want to

1:54:48remove a food vendor that provides

1:54:50diversity in food offering.

1:54:53Everybody doesn't enjoy everything. But

1:54:56this is the response coming from the

1:54:57department after the fact after they've

1:54:59already started on an agenda item and I

1:55:01received the I looked up the original

1:55:04agenda item which was one and a half

1:55:06pages and it did not include any of the

1:55:09items that were included in tonight's

1:55:10agenda. The problem I have with this is

1:55:13this was not sourced by staff and it

1:55:15states in their their information back

1:55:17to me. That's the major problem. Second

1:55:19biggest problem is destroying a business

1:55:21that has been in place for 23 years for

1:55:24from um property tax um payer homeowner.

1:55:28Um this is how this person provides

1:55:30their business and they just want to

1:55:33eliminate food service. That's all for

1:55:36now.

1:55:36>> Thank you, Commissioner. I think you've

1:55:38stated your case, Commissioner

1:55:39Davenport.

1:55:40>> Yes. Well, um I'm indifferent on this

1:55:42one, but I tend to support this

1:55:44ordinance. We're not destroying a

1:55:45business. We're still the operator can

1:55:48still operate downtown. Um we did spend

1:55:51a lot of money and time and years um

1:55:54dedicating and revitalizing um College

1:55:57Square. So, um all we're doing is just

1:56:00trying to reinvision the the the space.

1:56:03The business can still operate. the

1:56:05business can um still get a special use

1:56:07permit to be used, but um yeah, I just

1:56:13Yeah, I tend to support this this

1:56:15ordinance as is.

1:56:17>> Commissioner Myers.

1:56:18>> Uh yeah. Um a couple questions. My my um

1:56:22reaction actually echoes a lot of what

1:56:25Commissioner Johnson said to some degree

1:56:27in terms of like we there's a problem

1:56:30and therefore we're just going to

1:56:32instead of dealing with the problem

1:56:35the specific problem in person just

1:56:37outlaw the whole thing. Um now

1:56:40[clears throat] maybe there's more to it

1:56:42than that but that's what we're seeing

1:56:44right here. Um, and so if there could be

1:56:48information from us about uh violations

1:56:51that have been s or citations that have

1:56:53made on food vendors and other vendors

1:56:55downtown, that would be helpful to know

1:56:57about it. Um, I I do want to say that I

1:57:00think it is important to

1:57:03address the cleanliness of of downtown,

1:57:06but I'm not sure if the right way to do

1:57:08that is to address this one vendor who's

1:57:11been down there for over 20 years. We

1:57:13just talked about a business downtown

1:57:15and respecting what that business has

1:57:17done. I I think there is something to

1:57:20that. Um, what I would suggest as well

1:57:23is for us to consider other ways um to

1:57:26keep downtown clean because it is

1:57:28clearly not just downtown hot dog vendor

1:57:33that is causing uh dirty sidewalks

1:57:36because I do remember the Clayton Street

1:57:39whole wonderful thing opening up and I'm

1:57:42then I'm walking down there about you

1:57:44know a month later and I'm like this

1:57:46looks pretty crappy already and it was

1:57:49like we need to have a way we need to

1:57:50have a cleaning service of pressure

1:57:54washing. I believe other communities

1:57:56that we all hear about like how

1:57:58wonderful Greenville is and I believe

1:58:00they have a whole way of uh you know

1:58:02really going down there and pressure

1:58:03washing their sidewalks. The same thing

1:58:05with our wonderful um rainbow

1:58:08crosswalks. It didn't take long for

1:58:10those to get all sort of not quite as

1:58:13bright as they were. And I kept wanting

1:58:15to come out there and bring my pressure

1:58:18washer down and clean them up. Um, so I

1:58:20think that yes, addressing the um the

1:58:24the cleanliness of our ground, our

1:58:27sidewalks and roads is important to look

1:58:29at. I'm not sure if this is the way to

1:58:32do it.

1:58:33>> Commissioner Taylor.

1:58:34>> Yeah, I agree [clears throat] with um I

1:58:38agree with everybody. I I just don't

1:58:40think that um I think that there is

1:58:43there should be um a better way um than

1:58:47you know if if it could be like proper

1:58:51grease storage if that could be mandated

1:58:54and not saying that this vendor um you

1:58:57know did anything with grease. Um but

1:59:01when I think about downtown I think

1:59:02about coming out of Insomnia and being

1:59:05able to get a hot dog. I think that that

1:59:08adds to the experience of being

1:59:10downtown. Um, and the fact that, um, we

1:59:14are a college town and food trucks are

1:59:17going to, um, you know, there's going to

1:59:21be more food trucks. Um, and so, yeah, I

1:59:24I Yeah, I agree.

1:59:27>> And Commissioner Taylor, in a throwback,

1:59:28you're not referring to Insomnia

1:59:30Cookies, are you?

1:59:32>> Way above the club. just to pre

1:59:36appreciate the reference to a past

1:59:37downtown business. I've got uh got

1:59:41Commissioner Hamby.

1:59:42>> I think Commissioner Co Pepper is

1:59:45>> Commissioner Co Pepper.

1:59:46>> Yeah. So, talking about the cleanliness

1:59:49of downtown, I feel like the food

1:59:52vendors are not the problem.

1:59:54It's the homelessness. And yet, we

1:59:57passed or we put we voted down something

2:00:00a couple of weeks ago. So now we're, you

2:00:03know, the downtown development authority

2:00:04is spent a lot of money on College

2:00:06Square. Uh we're going to restrict food

2:00:10vendors, but we're going to let homeless

2:00:11people hang out there. When uh

2:00:13Commissioner Myers has talked about the

2:00:15cleanliness and how we need to get the

2:00:17stuff cleaned up, that's majority of the

2:00:19problem. So I think we need to look at

2:00:20the priorities and see what the actual

2:00:22problem is instead of trying to regulate

2:00:25food food trucks.

2:00:27>> I have uh Commissioner Thornton on the

2:00:29phone, then Commissioner Hamby.

2:00:35Commissioner Thornon,

2:00:40>> maybe I can go.

2:00:41>> I'm going to move to Commissioner Ham.

2:00:42>> Sure. Thank you, Mayor. So, um, you

2:00:45know, when I first got on this

2:00:46commission, Mayor Davidson assigned this

2:00:48to uh to the LRC. Um, and I was chair of

2:00:52the LRC at the time and we we talked

2:00:55about the U food vending licensing and

2:00:59food vending processing and that's how

2:01:01Baxter Street got added to the list

2:01:04because of that. But y'all, you just

2:01:06need to think about this. We do

2:01:08currently limit where food vendors can

2:01:11go downtown. We're not getting rid of

2:01:14our food vendor licensing. We're just

2:01:16saying you just need to find a better

2:01:20spot and there are better spots downtown

2:01:22than College Avenue and or College

2:01:25Square. And the other thing that we that

2:01:27we need to be really thinking about the

2:01:29consequences of if the discussion here

2:01:31tonight is saying okay come one come all

2:01:34to College Square even though people

2:01:37it's a first come first- serve basis on

2:01:39who gets those permits. So and people

2:01:42don't realize that. So you've got folks

2:01:44watching from Timbuktu who may want to

2:01:47come on a football game night, set up

2:01:49shop right there in College Square, and

2:01:51it's going to make it difficult for our

2:01:53police officers or code enforcement to

2:01:56say something to them about that that

2:01:57hey, you're not allowed here. But if we

2:02:00pass an ordinance, if we modify this

2:02:02ordinance and say we don't allow it on

2:02:04College Square, then it's very clear to

2:02:06the people that we want to enforce this

2:02:08that there is none of this happening on

2:02:10College Square. So it it makes it it it

2:02:14just makes it so clear and you know we

2:02:16do have areas that people can go and do

2:02:19the food vending and we we have a you

2:02:21know it's a first come first- serve

2:02:23basis. We also limit on where food

2:02:25trucks can go downtown. They can't just

2:02:28go set up shop in front of the grill or

2:02:30in front of trapeze and sell their

2:02:32hamburgers. That's not fair to them,

2:02:34y'all. It's just not. And we're not

2:02:37trying to put anybody out of business.

2:02:39I'm not trying to I'm trying to save the

2:02:4130-year-old business dude for that sells

2:02:44cigarettes, but I'm I want the I want

2:02:46every I want the dude that's selling the

2:02:49hot dogs to stay in business, too. Uh

2:02:51but I also want us to make sure that we

2:02:55are we are good stewards of of what

2:02:57we're trying to trying to do and to make

2:03:00it easier for people to to to enforce

2:03:02it. I imagine the the gentleman that has

2:03:05the permit that waited in line that's

2:03:07waited in line for 20 years to get that

2:03:09permit on a first come first- serve

2:03:10basis would appreciate us uh making sure

2:03:14that our food per our food vendor thing

2:03:16is is is enforced and not allowing

2:03:19people that don't have that permit to

2:03:20come downtown on game days and compete

2:03:22against what he's doing. That's I mean

2:03:25that's look at let's look at it that way

2:03:26y'all. I'm not he, you know, you can set

2:03:29up shop across from across from College

2:03:32Square, right there, right there near W

2:03:34Street or right there on that corner. I

2:03:36mean, there's there's plenty of options

2:03:38available that that would that would uh

2:03:41uh provide the benefit and keep keep the

2:03:44business going. So,

2:03:46>> ma'am,

2:03:46>> uh so any rate, I was also chair of the

2:03:48of the LRC at the time. We talked about

2:03:51food food trucks. So, if y'all want to

2:03:52talk about that again, let me know. That

2:03:54was quite a quite a quite a thing.

2:03:56Commissioner Johnson,

2:03:57>> you remember that, don't you?

2:03:58>> Thank you. Um, to quote Commissioner

2:04:00Hamby,

2:04:02>> let's not dismiss a business that's been

2:04:04downtown 30 years.

2:04:05>> Y'all, let's not do that. Please don't

2:04:07interrupt me, y'all. Let's not do that.

2:04:09Patrick Davenport, Commissioner

2:04:10Davenport was only trying to point out

2:04:12that on when he watched the um work

2:04:16session and I asked the police chief if

2:04:18he was running out of space. He said

2:04:19yes, especially downtown. And so

2:04:23the com the point of him asking that

2:04:25question is I I'm because we chatted

2:04:28super brief was why not ex expand that

2:04:32space for the police um to use. Yeah, I

2:04:34do understand that there is storage. The

2:04:36majority of it is storage and you can

2:04:37put storage everywhere but

2:04:39decentralization has been proven not to

2:04:41work. Decentralization of services,

2:04:43materials and personnel has been proven

2:04:45not to be the most effective especially

2:04:47in a countyowned building. And I would

2:04:50imagine that's what um Commissioner

2:04:52Davenport was getting at when he was

2:04:54asking why not just expand the police

2:04:56presence there. But the discussion

2:04:58didn't continue because y'all let's not

2:05:01do that was said earlier. So I I just

2:05:04want to say there's no difference

2:05:06between a 30-year business and a and a

2:05:0923-year business. But I do want to point

2:05:12out some a comment speaker said

2:05:14government sponsored vendor that I don't

2:05:18know what that means. I'm going to

2:05:19Google it later. But I think it's a

2:05:21gross misstatement. I do not think it's

2:05:23competition. Um but I my with my degree

2:05:27in economics I do know that competition

2:05:29is good for all.

2:05:31Competition is good for all. Many people

2:05:34don't want to go inside a restaurant and

2:05:37sit down. Many people don't want to wait

2:05:39for a seat or a table to be available.

2:05:41Many people do not want to cry to crowd

2:05:43them and and squeeze and wedge

2:05:46themselves up to the counter of Little

2:05:47Italy as great as their food is to place

2:05:49an order when they can go to the hot dog

2:05:52stand, grab a hot dog, and keep going.

2:05:54There is there is a purpose in the

2:05:56diversity. But I also would would posit

2:05:59that there is some difference in being

2:06:02located on College Square where

2:06:04everybody sees you because they pass

2:06:06through that space versus being placed

2:06:08two blocks down um not in the line of

2:06:12sight of traveling all the time. There

2:06:14there there's a big difference and and

2:06:17possibly revenue

2:06:19um decrease potential by being moved.

2:06:22This person has built a business on this

2:06:24and I do think it's important of the

2:06:26location. It's not about the location,

2:06:29it's about returning to College Square.

2:06:32I want to also um mention that in my

2:06:35conversations with Mr. King, the person

2:06:38that came to speak and is one of the two

2:06:40hot dog vendors, as soon as they were

2:06:43notified that someone had poured oil, he

2:06:46was notified by email. He he promptly

2:06:48responded no. He didn't know anything

2:06:51about it. He was not involved. And he

2:06:54said as a protective measure for

2:06:55himself, he went that um shortly

2:06:58thereafter and bought a 5gallon wa

2:07:005gallon waste tank to house to to make

2:07:04sure he has all any in any extra any

2:07:07waste um that he had. He he every time

2:07:11he hears a warning or gets an email, he

2:07:13seems to respond accordingly to to be a

2:07:16good steward of the business and also

2:07:17the downtown community. he is um focused

2:07:21uh on the same thing that ADDA is, which

2:07:24is preserving how ADDA looks and make

2:07:26sure it stays nice and clean.

2:07:28>> Um I believe Commissioner Thornton was

2:07:30disconnected, but this question may be

2:07:33uh that I received via text maybe for

2:07:35the attorney or for the manager. And the

2:07:38question from Commissioner Thornton is

2:07:40could uh an existing vendor be

2:07:42grandfathered? Is that would that be a

2:07:45viable path?

2:07:48probably to do some research on that.

2:07:50>> Yeah.

2:07:51>> Okay.

2:07:51>> I don't know the answer.

2:07:52>> Well, we'll let her know or she may be

2:07:53able to view this as we speak. So, uh

2:07:56I've got Commissioner Link.

2:07:58>> Yeah. I mean, I just want to point out

2:08:00that it seems counterintuitive to invest

2:08:04all this money and effort into this

2:08:06beautiful downtown space for the public

2:08:09to enjoy the outdoors and then force

2:08:11them inside to grab a snack. Um, I

2:08:15really think that, you know, any problem

2:08:16that we have with our a downtown food

2:08:19prep vendor can be solved by simply

2:08:22tweaking the requirements, tweaking that

2:08:25that J, you know, being specific about

2:08:29what kind of food or be beverage

2:08:31preparation. If we've had a problem with

2:08:32grease, maybe we prohibit the

2:08:35preparation of foods that involve

2:08:37grease. Hot dogs don't involve grease.

2:08:39Any hot dog I've ever gotten from a cart

2:08:41came out of a bucket of hot water.

2:08:42>> You've been to the

2:08:45[laughter] No, actually I never have

2:08:47eaten at the varsity. I've been a

2:08:48vegetarian most of

2:08:51>> um

2:08:52>> so

2:08:54um yeah I mean I I mean I just think you

2:08:56know tweaking the ordinance it's you

2:08:59know the the definitions and and the

2:09:01type of food vending rather than

2:09:03prohibiting it alto together from that

2:09:05college square space. maybe changing the

2:09:08location a little bit um to to move it a

2:09:11little bit further away from more

2:09:13vulnerable pieces of infrastructure. I

2:09:15mean, I know that there's a big giant

2:09:17chunk of concrete that's opened up on

2:09:20College Square when that tree right

2:09:22across from the arch came down. Um I

2:09:25just feel like, you know, the rules can

2:09:27be tweaked a little bit rather than

2:09:28prohibiting.

2:09:30>> Got uh Commissioner Fischer, then we're

2:09:32going to close with Commissioner Hamby.

2:09:34And maybe the compromise

2:09:36could be uh since you get a special

2:09:40permit use to use it doing special

2:09:42events that we just don't let anybody

2:09:45use any food on in that area. Again, I'm

2:09:48just that could be a compromise

2:09:50possible. And [clears throat] to

2:09:50Commissioner Link's point, maybe we

2:09:52don't let people um

2:09:55fried foods there and things of that

2:09:57nature. And maybe that would, you know,

2:09:59be prepackaged food can be there. But I

2:10:01think, you know, maybe we can come up

2:10:03with a compromise.

2:10:04>> Yeah. From that.

2:10:05>> I do think we could there probably are

2:10:07some ways that if the if at the end of

2:10:09this one of the desires was to treat

2:10:12special events likewise, if you will,

2:10:14special event permits. I think there's a

2:10:15way to get there.

2:10:16>> Yeah. So, just Yeah. We just don't do

2:10:18any cooking in the new college square.

2:10:21Yeah.

2:10:22>> You know, if if we're going to do that,

2:10:24eliminate all that and that way the

2:10:26business can still be downtown, but they

2:10:28just don't be in College Square. That's

2:10:30>> I think that's fair.

2:10:31>> Let me say something. You don't mind

2:10:34once again. I'll just make the point.

2:10:35We're not eliminating food vendors.

2:10:37We're just we're just saying that you

2:10:39just we we just prefer you be in a

2:10:41different spot. We're not we're not

2:10:43trying to put anybody out of business.

2:10:45We're not uh we're not uh um we're not

2:10:48doing any of that. We're just saying,

2:10:50you know, let's like, you know, I'm sure

2:10:53all the food truck folks would like to

2:10:54pull up right beside the grill or right

2:10:57in front of Trapeze, but we don't allow

2:10:58that, y'all. There are things that we

2:11:00just don't allow uh to to make sure that

2:11:04uh the folks I'm not trying the

2:11:06competition I was talking about uh was

2:11:09competition that's not going through the

2:11:11process that's coming into town without

2:11:13getting a permit. You know, this

2:11:15gentleman is getting a permit, so that's

2:11:17good. But we we do have it is up to us

2:11:20to make sure that where the food trucks

2:11:22go and where the food vendors go are

2:11:25appropriate spots not only for for the

2:11:29um um comm community and town as a whole

2:11:32but also for for those businesses that

2:11:35are paying the property taxes and and

2:11:37have been doing so for years and the

2:11:40College Square is going to be open to

2:11:42everybody. in College Square. You know,

2:11:45the like I said, there's places across

2:11:48the street that could be set up and go

2:11:50grab your hot dog and there's going to

2:11:52be tables out at College Square that

2:11:54people can go sit and eat the hot dog or

2:11:56whatever they bring from Little Italy or

2:11:58wherever they bring it to. So, we want

2:12:01we want business downtown to thrive and

2:12:03we want the food vendors that get the

2:12:06permits and are doing the right thing to

2:12:09also thrive, but we do want to make sure

2:12:10that we we they are appropriated in the

2:12:13correct uh uh spots like we do with food

2:12:16trucks. That's all I had to say. Mayor,

2:12:18thank you. Look forward to

2:12:19>> given the passion on this topic. My

2:12:21recommendation to the body is that uh in

2:12:23the three weeks that we have, we've got

2:12:24an extended period of time, three weeks

2:12:26between now and the voting meeting, uh

2:12:27engage with your colleagues to come up

2:12:29with an option. Uh they get six votes.

2:12:31>> Got one more.

2:12:32>> So, Commissioner, let's move on. I think

2:12:34everybody's stated their case on on this

2:12:36>> quick, but it'll add to the discussion

2:12:38>> on this matter.

2:12:39>> Competitive

2:12:41>> very very quickly, very quickly. I would

2:12:43al I support um looking at the entire

2:12:46food process, all vendors um including

2:12:48food trucks and and also outside of um

2:12:51College Square because um there was an

2:12:53event not two months ago where there um

2:12:55there were food trucks lined up on

2:12:57Washington and there's a brand new

2:12:59building on Washington um that people

2:13:01were sitting on the steps to. So when we

2:13:03talk about protecting our our financial

2:13:05investments or legacy projects, whatever

2:13:08that means, I think it should we should

2:13:10look at all of those eliminations for

2:13:12all of those reasons that for for food

2:13:16food period downtown

2:13:18and I do favor moving um to a new

2:13:21location if that happens.

2:13:23>> All right, moving on to an item that I

2:13:26certainly hope will engender much less

2:13:27discussion. Uh we have a proposed

2:13:30vehicle addition to our fleet. Uh any

2:13:33input on this or would you like to move

2:13:35this one to consent?

2:13:37>> Love it.

2:13:39>> All right. Uh 16.

2:13:43>> 16 is

2:13:46uh Splus 2020 project. Uh and this is a

2:13:49proposed project concept also for

2:13:52vehicle for the police department and

2:13:54sheriff's office.

2:13:55>> Consent.

2:13:56>> All right. 16 is consent.

2:13:59lesson.

2:14:00>> All right. All right. Uh 17 is uh the

2:14:05space modernization project number one,

2:14:07the judicial center that we got the work

2:14:09session regarding a couple weeks ago.

2:14:12>> Not on concern.

2:14:14>> Commissioner Davenport.

2:14:15>> Um yeah, you know, by now everybody know

2:14:18I want to save trees. So, and I'd like

2:14:20to thank the the people who came up to

2:14:23speak in favor of it. Um and I do

2:14:25understand the concerns about parking.

2:14:27Um, you know, I just think we can hash

2:14:30that out with um some of the new

2:14:33developments that's taking place around

2:14:35town, especially in the back on Strong

2:14:37Street. But um hopefully we can move

2:14:40forward with with preserving the um Moon

2:14:44Tree

2:14:44>> and we will continue at the meeting to

2:14:47present both those options. So that

2:14:49option will still remain present as

2:14:52well.

2:14:53>> Commissioner Link.

2:14:54>> Yeah. Um, we had a pretty lengthy

2:14:56discussion of this at the tree council

2:14:57meeting um yesterday and I believe the

2:15:00tree council will be making a statement

2:15:03on it. Um, I learned from one of our

2:15:05experts on the tree council that lavaly

2:15:07pines have a lifespan of up to 400

2:15:10years. Um, you know, one in an urban

2:15:13environment might not live to be that

2:15:15long, but you know, it was clear that it

2:15:17could very easily live to be 150 years.

2:15:21um you know there will be impacts on the

2:15:24roof the root system even if it's saved

2:15:26but I I personally would rather see that

2:15:30tree fight it out than have us come and

2:15:34chop it down and you know the cost the

2:15:37the chopping it down would be primarily

2:15:39to save about seven parking spaces I

2:15:43believe um currently there are 24 spaces

2:15:46in that lot that are accessible to the

2:15:48public there about a dozen that are

2:15:50taken that up by the fleet. Um, you

2:15:53know, there there will be a net loss of

2:15:56about seven parking spaces, which from

2:15:59the design we see could very well be um

2:16:03made up for with some on street spaces

2:16:06where the driveway will be closed. I

2:16:08really appreciate the gentleman that

2:16:09came up to speak to us with the the

2:16:12alternative site plan because I, you

2:16:13know, I stated clearly in the work

2:16:15session, I have deep deep concerns about

2:16:17the design of the building.

2:16:19um you know, not just the style of it,

2:16:22but the the design of it being so um

2:16:25looming over the church and I feel like

2:16:28they're the massing of it could be

2:16:30broken up by some exterior design

2:16:33elements or by this reorientation that's

2:16:36been proposed. Um I am not prepared to

2:16:39approve that design. I'm prepared to

2:16:42approve a site plan that includes the

2:16:44moon tree. I'm prepared to approve the

2:16:47the flooring layout plans, but um you

2:16:51know the the actual design of the

2:16:53building, the exterior design elements

2:16:56of it, I I don't feel like it's

2:16:59sensitive to the public input that we've

2:17:02gotten, nor is it sensitive to the

2:17:05context of our community and the context

2:17:07of it being um situated directly

2:17:09adjacent to a very very historic church

2:17:13structure. quickly just real quickly

2:17:15just we're not so that design is not the

2:17:18design we we get another final design

2:17:21before building right it's just

2:17:23schematic design

2:17:25>> it's a schematic design the significance

2:17:27of that though because again I want to

2:17:28make certain that everybody kind of

2:17:30knows what's next the significance of

2:17:31that is that enables us to proceed both

2:17:35with securing the mechanism to move

2:17:38forward on financing so there's an

2:17:40element of that tied to that design and

2:17:42most importantly It allows us to proceed

2:17:44in securing the construction manager at

2:17:45risk who will then be involved in the

2:17:48final design as it goes through because

2:17:50they're trying to work from that that

2:17:51piece of it. So practically it's taking

2:17:54that schematic design and turning it

2:17:56into a final design. Again, I don't want

2:17:57to mislead anyone. It would not I would

2:17:59not view it as a conceptual design. It's

2:18:02one step past that.

2:18:04>> Thank you. Um, I I'd like I'd probably

2:18:07have some more questions um that would

2:18:09probably need to be answered by by the

2:18:12architects, the designers, the

2:18:14engineers. Um,

2:18:17>> just send those as soon as possible.

2:18:18>> Yeah. I mean, specifically with this

2:18:20concept of of reorienting the building

2:18:23um that would bring the lower side near

2:18:26the church and and have less massing

2:18:29hovering over that very prominent

2:18:31facade.

2:18:32>> Disher Hamby. Thank you, mayor. Um, you

2:18:36know, we've been wanting this courthouse

2:18:38now from going on over 10 years. We've

2:18:40known the current courthouse is is is

2:18:43not safe. Uh, we know it doesn't

2:18:45function well for how the courts of

2:18:48today need to function. Um, I find it

2:18:52amazing. I find it incredible. I find it

2:18:56also um uh that that we're going to base

2:19:01our decision

2:19:03a $250 million decision on a building

2:19:06that's going to and probably end up

2:19:08being more than that on a building

2:19:10that's going to be here uh for the next

2:19:13200 years if not more based on the

2:19:15current courthouse uh on a on a moon

2:19:19tree. I can't believe I'm actually

2:19:21saying that out loud. Uh is it a moon

2:19:24tree? Did Neil Armstrong have this seeds

2:19:27in his pocket when he stepped off that

2:19:29onto that moon? And we didn't even know

2:19:31it was a moon tree for God's sake until

2:19:34four years ago. Uh so, and the moon

2:19:37tree, we can build all you want to

2:19:40around this pine tree or the fancy pine

2:19:44tree that's out there. I'm sorry, but

2:19:46y'all this is absurd. We we're this B

2:19:49it's irresponsible and it's it borders

2:19:51on malfeasants that we're actually

2:19:54heading in this direction about building

2:19:56a building that's needs to function for

2:19:58this community for the next 250 years

2:20:02around a tree that's probably going to

2:20:04die as the building's being built uh or

2:20:08over the next 10 to 20 years or when I

2:20:11go get my saw out of my truck and take

2:20:14care of it tonight. So, uh, so all I'm

2:20:17saying is this, y'all make the right

2:20:20decision. Come on. We've been talking

2:20:21about this courthouse for years, and

2:20:23it's just silly. I love the Moon Tree. I

2:20:26love the people that love the Moon Tree.

2:20:28But we've got decisions to make, and

2:20:30we've got hard decisions to make. And

2:20:32this one shouldn't be it because we've

2:20:34got more important stuff in this

2:20:35community than to talk about how to

2:20:37build a building that is going to cost

2:20:40us $250 million of this community's

2:20:43investment around a tree that Neil

2:20:45Armstrong didn't even take to the moon

2:20:47with him himself. So, and there's also

2:20:50what 70 other trees across the country

2:20:53that have that that that

2:20:56are are some sort of moon tree. Um, you

2:20:59know, let's I mean, the staff has a way

2:21:02of making sure that the Moon Tree uh

2:21:06legacy lives on. Uh, it works for the

2:21:09hedges during this during the Olympic

2:21:11soccer game. It can work for the Moon

2:21:13Tree uh here in Athens. So, um, heck, we

2:21:17could build something inside the inside

2:21:20the courthouse and put the little

2:21:21saplings so the moon tree can grow right

2:21:24inside there. Uh, so let's let's Come

2:21:27on. Let's move on. Let's get this

2:21:29building going. Let's get this

2:21:31courthouse going. Let's get staff

2:21:34started in the direction they need to go

2:21:36and let's start talking about some

2:21:38serious things that we need to talk

2:21:39about in this community.

2:21:42Thank you. I'm glad I took my blood

2:21:44pressure medicine tonight because y'all

2:21:45really got me going tonight.

2:21:47>> Commissioner [snorts] Myers, you got any

2:21:48pills you can pass down the aisle?

2:21:52>> I'm get my house here.

2:21:54>> I filled my medicine box this morning. I

2:21:56didn't bring it with me. Um, so I'm

2:21:59good. Don't have any extra. Um, now I

2:22:03mean the reality is the building's the

2:22:05same whether or not the moon tree is

2:22:06there or not. So, you know, um, I

2:22:09understand it does

2:22:12I I have mixed feelings on the moon tree

2:22:14in terms of the most important things

2:22:16myself. Um, and it is just it's really a

2:22:20difference between the the building

2:22:21itself is the building and the it's the

2:22:23moon tree versus

2:22:26>> what is it? Nine more from the staff

2:22:28>> 10 more parking spots. I'm going to ask

2:22:31a real stupid question about the moon

2:22:32tree.

2:22:34>> Okay, I'm just going to go ahead and

2:22:35then I'll ask another question that's

2:22:36not so stupid. Uh um, you know, I looked

2:22:40at these two pictures. One has a moon

2:22:42tree in it, one it doesn't, but it

2:22:43doesn't change where the walls are. And

2:22:45I go look at the where the moon tree is

2:22:48right now. And the moon tree is in a

2:22:51little peninsula that sticks out in the

2:22:52parking lot.

2:22:55>> Why isn't the design just like keeping

2:22:57the same layout with the moon tree? I

2:23:01mean, can't you just like

2:23:02>> inject some special things into the

2:23:04ground and make it stronger?

2:23:06>> So, several questions there. One of them

2:23:09is the that the design seeks to lower

2:23:11the grade. it needs to lower the grade

2:23:13to really match what's back on Strong

2:23:15Street. And so to do that, if you're

2:23:17going to come all the way through to

2:23:19Doerty, you're going to have to have

2:23:20some grading that would impact uh where

2:23:23the Moon Tree is currently.

2:23:26>> Um the Moon Tree adjacent design or the

2:23:29option two, we'll call it the

2:23:30alternative. Um, if you all choose that,

2:23:34we will ask staff to go do some

2:23:37preservation work this fall um to

2:23:40stimulate root growth, which was kind of

2:23:42your second question.

2:23:44>> Um, I do want to point out that soil

2:23:46preservation is important, but that's

2:23:49not the only risk to the moon tree. One

2:23:51of the biggest risk in my opinion is

2:23:54actually the vertical element. how you

2:23:57work on that building and have things

2:23:59like crane swings and material storage

2:24:02and

2:24:03>> are getting those things. Again, what

2:24:06has been presented to you as an

2:24:07alternative is the best effort to

2:24:11preserve that tree while accomplishing

2:24:13the other goals of the project.

2:24:17No guarantees.

2:24:19>> Um and and following up on that, that

2:24:21was my moon tree question there. Um, I

2:24:24did review

2:24:27scan through the many comments that were

2:24:29in there and it brought up some points

2:24:31that um were helpful for me to look at.

2:24:34It didn't look like in terms of design

2:24:36there was any consistent numbering of

2:24:39who wanted what design in which way. And

2:24:41I um but one of the things that did come

2:24:44up was an issue that I you know a topic

2:24:47that I bring up and I've sort of let

2:24:49slide for a little bit here. Um, but

2:24:51there's that big glass atrium

2:24:54in there in this picture with with this

2:24:57design. Um, that's going to let a lot of

2:25:01sun and heat in there. And I know

2:25:02there's when when I was seeing the

2:25:05hospital building go up like that. Some

2:25:08of my 100% friends who who are like,

2:25:10"What? That's crazy. That's the kind of

2:25:12energy need to keep that thing cool is

2:25:14going to be crazy." Um, what kind of do

2:25:18we is there are there energy

2:25:20considerations with this design? Is it

2:25:22leadcertified?

2:25:24Is that large atrium going to just be an

2:25:28incredible heat sink? I guess it will be

2:25:31if that sun's coming from the side. Um,

2:25:33and you know what's the effect on the

2:25:36energy usage in the building because

2:25:38that is not all of the designs have

2:25:40those big glass atriums in them. Yeah, I

2:25:43think some some of those we don't know

2:25:45yet because that'll get its work its way

2:25:47through, but definitely the building is

2:25:49being designed in accordance with the

2:25:51sustainability provisions we have in

2:25:52place. It will have I don't know which

2:25:54lead certification, but it will have it

2:25:56will be built to lead standards and so

2:25:59that may require some additional

2:26:01treatments to the windows and those

2:26:02other kinds of things as it goes

2:26:03through. I think as the design evolves,

2:26:06we'll be able to answer more of those

2:26:08questions. What's the energy demand and

2:26:09those those types of things? But yes, it

2:26:11it it will be designed meeting those

2:26:12sustainability objectives.

2:26:14>> So is that big glass atrium, can

2:26:16something be done to that to mitigate

2:26:20its effect on the heating needs of the

2:26:23building or that's that big empty space.

2:26:28>> Andrew,

2:26:29yes. Uh so you can look at things like

2:26:32films and and ways to reflect that heat

2:26:34and light back out. You can also look at

2:26:37um how much glass is there and and is

2:26:39there uh barriers between it single

2:26:42similar to like a single pane triple

2:26:44pane window concept [clears throat]

2:26:46>> but that much glass on the south side of

2:26:49a building will be less energy efficient

2:26:51than if you did something that was like

2:26:53a brick veneer.

2:26:55>> Yeah, that's that's a issue. I mean, I

2:26:58was I was looking at the wonderful uh

2:27:00return on investments of some of the

2:27:01items that we just put onto the consent

2:27:03agenda where we're spending money on

2:27:06energy efficiency and it's being return

2:27:09on investment is two years or six years

2:27:11and then we're saving money for the

2:27:12remaining 15 years or whatever of the

2:27:15product. So, um that that is this is

2:27:17that's a concern of mine.

2:27:18>> I will say that it would be obviously

2:27:21significantly more energy efficient than

2:27:23the current courthouse that we're using.

2:27:24So,

2:27:24>> yeah. Well, I I hope so. Right. Right. I

2:27:26mean that's true of that's true of all

2:27:28>> taking that building offline and

2:27:30replacing it with this building. So yes,

2:27:31I think those things are all true, but I

2:27:33don't want to lose sight of the fact

2:27:34that we're taking a 100y old building

2:27:36and replacing it with a very

2:27:38contemporary modern building that will

2:27:40be built to lead standards. So So yes,

2:27:42and I and I think we can

2:27:43>> except for we're going to continue to

2:27:44use that courthouse.

2:27:45>> Correct. We'll have to come back and

2:27:47actually retrofit it probably to be more

2:27:48energy efficient as well. So yeah,

2:27:52>> Commissioner Co Pepper and then I'll

2:27:53return to Commissioner Link.

2:27:54>> Yeah. So, we're not engineers in here

2:27:57that we hired a professional that knows

2:27:59what they're doing in designing a

2:28:00building. I don't think us as

2:28:02commissioners need to question how they

2:28:04design it, whether it's energy efficient

2:28:06or not. I don't think they would have

2:28:08the uh portfolio of everything that they

2:28:11have done and got to where they are. Um,

2:28:14if they weren't. So, I think we need to

2:28:16take into consideration they they are

2:28:18experts in that field, not us. And we

2:28:20need to listen to their recommendations.

2:28:22And again, you all have set that

2:28:24standard of the lead. I mean, that

2:28:25that's not a, you know, it's not

2:28:27necessarily a given. You've set that

2:28:28standard. So, they'll have to design to

2:28:30meet that that need or that that

2:28:32certification. So,

2:28:33>> yeah, I'm I'm also I know that's out of

2:28:35order. Responding to several community

2:28:38input on that topic.

2:28:41>> Yes.

2:28:41>> I haven't heard yet from Commissioner

2:28:43Wright and then I'll return to

2:28:44Commissioner Link.

2:28:44>> Shocking, isn't it? [laughter]

2:28:47>> Just kidding. Um so

2:28:51again like I said in the work session

2:28:52this is about having secure and

2:28:54dignified

2:28:56modern building for the multitude of

2:29:01things that the community needs to go

2:29:03there for or is supporting somebody

2:29:06who's there. We have the driving in. We

2:29:09have the sheriff's delivery. We have all

2:29:11that drive-in stuff. There are so many

2:29:12elements that have been in consideration

2:29:14and discussed during the last 10 years

2:29:17of our needs here and what is not

2:29:21at the current courthouse that and the

2:29:24costs have changed and I can't help but

2:29:27think back on my year eight years on the

2:29:30school board that we were able to build

2:29:33schools on site in time in budget

2:29:38because the students were moved off

2:29:40campus and that didn't have to have the

2:29:43considerations of the children except

2:29:45for Clark Central because that took

2:29:46three years but it was big enough campus

2:29:49to move around and so for us to think

2:29:52about the logistics talk to somebody who

2:29:55you know that works in construction and

2:29:57talk to them about the challenges that

2:30:00happen when they have that silk fence

2:30:01around a tree or the different

2:30:03considerations that have to happen and

2:30:05what Andrew just said about the reality

2:30:09of building this if the

2:30:11plan was the one that moves forward

2:30:15um that it still

2:30:18might not survive the construction. So I

2:30:21wanted to be clear that we're

2:30:23propagating just like the tree that owns

2:30:25itself has been propagated. So no matter

2:30:28which one of these plans moves forward,

2:30:31we are still going to have propagated

2:30:34moon tree baby of and this is the mother

2:30:38of uh moon tree and that that would be

2:30:41going in we have a site specific for

2:30:43that

2:30:45new tree. Is that correct?

2:30:48>> There will be more than one

2:30:49>> I mean we'll have a batch to have them

2:30:51and so they can be

2:30:54>> okay. I just wanted to be clear on that.

2:30:56>> Got got Commissioner Thornton on speaker

2:30:59and then Commissioner Lincoln.

2:31:01>> Um, thank you. I um I don't know much

2:31:05about the Moon Tree uh at all, but the

2:31:08gentleman that spoke earlier gave an

2:31:12alternative um suggestion and I wish

2:31:17that staff would look at this and see

2:31:19the viability of it. Um because the

2:31:23design I know it's conceptual but the

2:31:27the the design we're we're we're

2:31:30debating about the moon tree and not

2:31:33mentioning anything about first amme um

2:31:38um church and it it's just it's just to

2:31:42me uh I think commissioner hamby said

2:31:46mound fee and I won't go that far but

2:31:49how do we put more emphasis on uh a tree

2:31:53than a church. Now, I'm I'm going to

2:31:55support this. Um but I do know that we

2:31:59have had situations what becomes what we

2:32:02vote on to be conceptual

2:32:05um turns out to be the the final thing.

2:32:08The only thing I would like uh staff to

2:32:12do uh mayor is to look at the suggestion

2:32:16of the gentleman that smoke

2:32:19spoke earlier um to see if it's viable

2:32:24that addresses the moon tree but more

2:32:26importantly the AfricanAmerican church

2:32:29first AMA.

2:32:31>> Yeah. And and we will share that

2:32:33information with the architects. It

2:32:34won't be staff it'll be the architects.

2:32:36Um and again I just want to make sure

2:32:40this is beyond concept. This is actually

2:32:42schematic. So basically what you see and

2:32:45what gets approved is essentially what

2:32:48we would anticipate the final design to

2:32:50be if approved. So I I don't want anyone

2:32:52to think that hey this design could

2:32:54change a whole lot going forward because

2:32:56it it probably won't change a whole lot.

2:32:57[laughter]

2:32:58But yes, we we'll share that. Um,

2:33:02then I really hope that you will look at

2:33:05the suggestion that the gentleman um

2:33:08mentioned um for not just the moon tree

2:33:13but um the church. So I I wish you would

2:33:17take in consideration or at least in

2:33:21look at the possibility of kind of you

2:33:23know tweaking the design um especially

2:33:27since it's schematic now and not

2:33:29conceptual.

2:33:30>> Yeah. Yeah. And we and like I said we'll

2:33:32share that information with the

2:33:33architects and get their opinion on it

2:33:35in the main Yeah.

2:33:37>> Commissioner Link.

2:33:38>> Yeah. Um, I I want to return to this

2:33:41concept of reorienting the building and

2:33:43bringing the the lower story side more

2:33:47closer to the church side and the moon

2:33:49tree. Um,

2:33:52Deputy Manager Sanders talked about the

2:33:55the danger to the tree and the

2:33:56construction with the cranes and stuff.

2:33:59Um, I believe those cranes aren't

2:34:02necessarily as involved when you have a

2:34:04lower scale, a lower story side. So I,

2:34:07you know, I feel like reorienting it

2:34:09would keep those cranes away from that

2:34:11side of the building and away from the

2:34:13tree um better assuring it would it

2:34:16would survive um and thrive. Also, from

2:34:20what I understand, this is part of the

2:34:21the conversation we had in the tree

2:34:23council is that the danger to the root

2:34:24system comes primarily from the footings

2:34:27needed for such a tall tall building and

2:34:31the tall part of the building is

2:34:33directly adjacent to where the tree is.

2:34:35a reorientation I would think wouldn't

2:34:38necessitate those kind of as deep

2:34:40footings and and would better um have a

2:34:44better chance of preserving the tree.

2:34:46So, um that I I I just feel like we

2:34:50really really need to consider this

2:34:52reorientation. I know there's kind of a

2:34:54an impact of, you know, riding down

2:34:57Doherty Street and seeing this crazy

2:35:00space age glass facade. I'm a little

2:35:02concerned about all that glass and the

2:35:04security. I mean, I thought one of the

2:35:05primary objectives of um rebuilding this

2:35:08courthouse was to have a very secure

2:35:10facility. I'm not sure that giant sheets

2:35:14of glass are are considered secure

2:35:16considering the threats that are made to

2:35:18facilities like that these days. So, I I

2:35:21feel like we need to consider that as

2:35:22well. Um and you know just I

2:35:26Commissioner Thornton brought it up too

2:35:27that the mass of this structure um

2:35:30adjacent to this very historic little

2:35:32brick church is really overwhelming and

2:35:35downright disrespectful. And you know I

2:35:38feel like some minor changes to the

2:35:42orientation and the exterior kind of

2:35:45decor [clears throat and cough] of the

2:35:46structure. um you know, the materials

2:35:49and decor of the exterior of the

2:35:51structure

2:35:53um could solve those problems. And and I

2:35:56really feel like the the input of the

2:35:57community has been completely

2:35:59disregarded in the style and and I don't

2:36:02even know why we take community input if

2:36:04we're just not even going to consider it

2:36:05at all.

2:36:07Commissioner Davenport.

2:36:09>> So, just looking at the schematic design

2:36:11on page 21, if we do if there's going to

2:36:15be some concerns from the sheriff

2:36:17department because one of their parking

2:36:19is coming off of

2:36:21um

2:36:23Lumpin Street. There's an enter and exit

2:36:26off of Lumpin Street for security

2:36:27reason. So, if the architect can address

2:36:30that concern as well.

2:36:32>> Yeah, I mean, like you said, we'll have

2:36:33the architect look at it. I mean, in

2:36:34fairness, this is a

2:36:37handdrawn sketch that was handed out at

2:36:39this meeting. So, we've got a 30% design

2:36:42by a professional architect that

2:36:43specializes in courouses. So, we'll have

2:36:46that architect take a look at what's

2:36:48been provided. So,

2:36:49>> and just pertinent to the topography and

2:36:51the question of sheriff's deputy access,

2:36:54um, one of the benefits of the topo that

2:36:57does exist on the site is that you can

2:37:00have the the judges and key staff enter

2:37:03at a different location than the sally

2:37:05port. So, the fact that those are able

2:37:07to be distinguished um because really

2:37:09you you have more than a full floor drop

2:37:12from the corner of Dhy and Lumpin down

2:37:16to Strong Street. That's that's I know

2:37:18one of the key considerations

2:37:19designwise.

2:37:20>> And the only the only other thing I just

2:37:22because I don't want to leave this I

2:37:23don't want to leave that statement just

2:37:24sitting out there. I I do think that the

2:37:26architects explained during the work

2:37:27session how they took and used the input

2:37:30that they got from the community to make

2:37:32adjustments to the design. So I don't

2:37:34think that the community input was

2:37:35disregarded. I think if you look at that

2:37:37list, I mean remember that list had

2:37:39people saying we want a modern building.

2:37:42We have people saying we want a building

2:37:43looks exactly like the existing

2:37:44courthouse. You can't actually achieve

2:37:46all of those at the same time. So I

2:37:48would not say it was disregarded. I

2:37:49would say that there are people who are

2:37:51going to like the design and there are

2:37:52people who aren't going to like the

2:37:53design. I mean that I think is is a

2:37:55given. But to say that it was

2:37:57disregarded I I just don't think is

2:37:59accurate. I think it is a design that

2:38:01may or may not meet what you all are

2:38:03looking for, but I think the architects

2:38:05did a good job of explaining how they

2:38:06incorporated that design, that input

2:38:08into that design along with the users

2:38:11group input, which means the sheriff has

2:38:13input in this, the judges have input in

2:38:15this. Um, there's a lot of people

2:38:17putting input into this thing, and the

2:38:19architect's job is to try to figure out

2:38:20how to make it work to the extent that

2:38:22it can. And that will be true anywhere

2:38:24in the community. I mean, that doesn't

2:38:26matter where the site is. all of the

2:38:27sites in our community are going to have

2:38:29similar kinds of considerations

2:38:30associated. I just didn't want to leave

2:38:31that statement just kind of sitting out

2:38:32there that it was just disregarded.

2:38:35>> Commissioner Fischer.

2:38:36>> Yeah, I think we need to go ahead and

2:38:38close this out too. I think we talked

2:38:40enough about but I think and I talked

2:38:41about this at the work session. I think

2:38:43the elephant in for me the elephant in

2:38:45the room is the price tag and how we

2:38:47going to pay for it. And then we still

2:38:49got to consider parking. I mean, we

2:38:51can't have a tradition center and we

2:38:54don't have adequate parking. And

2:38:58you know, that's going to be a hard sale

2:38:59for me, guys. I'm just going to tell

2:39:00you. And it's going to come on my watch.

2:39:03So, we got to really think about that

2:39:05price tag and the parking piece of this

2:39:08thing. So, just want to put that out

2:39:10there. Again, I talked about it at the

2:39:12work session and you know, we just, you

2:39:14know, and I don't want us to get so far

2:39:16ahead.

2:39:18We spent so much money on design and all

2:39:20this stuff that we can't pivot.

2:39:24So, I'm just putting that out there. So,

2:39:26>> I think it's notable because we're

2:39:28really at the not pivot point in the

2:39:30process.

2:39:30>> Well, we got well, we got we got to

2:39:32figure out we're going to pay for it,

2:39:33mayor. And and and if if we can't pay

2:39:36for it, we ain't going to build it. I'm

2:39:37not going to build it. So,

2:39:39>> and and just for public education, we

2:39:41have two routes to pay for it. Uh we

2:39:44have uh bonded indebtedness that could

2:39:48be covered by the next or bonded

2:39:50indebtedness that could be covered by a

2:39:52militike. So, those are those are really

2:39:54the two routes.

2:39:57>> Commissioner Johnson.

2:40:00>> Oh, I um I agree with Commissioner

2:40:02Fisher Fischer about my concern for

2:40:05parking. I do support the judicial

2:40:07center being constructed. However, I

2:40:10think it needs to be at the same time.

2:40:11We talk about parking. It should be at

2:40:15the same time, not afterwards.

2:40:17>> And and Bob, you may want to just

2:40:19address that just as it comes to the

2:40:20future parking opportunity.

2:40:22>> Yeah. So again, you know, there is a

2:40:24sequencing of this

2:40:26>> both approvals and project. So um as I

2:40:29think was shared at the work session in

2:40:30the in the presentation

2:40:33the first piece of this is the schematic

2:40:35design which will is what this is and

2:40:36what's moving forward. Second piece

2:40:39which will come in November has to do

2:40:41with the financing mechanisms to move

2:40:43some of those pieces in. It also comes

2:40:45with change orders. The change orders

2:40:47are related to the design. So we have to

2:40:50actually the architect that we've been

2:40:51using has been under contract to get us

2:40:54to this point. we have to change their

2:40:56contract in order for them to finish the

2:40:58rest of the design. We are also at that

2:41:00point proposing a change order in their

2:41:02contract to design the parking deck.

2:41:04Parking deck again is assumed to be at

2:41:06the lot adjacent to the uncommon. So

2:41:09half a block down if you will from that

2:41:11from that location.

2:41:13>> Those dollars, as Commissioner Fischer

2:41:14has um correctly indicated, those will

2:41:16be additional costs. We've we've said

2:41:17that kind of from the beginning piece.

2:41:19We have an estimate of what those costs

2:41:21are. we won't know till we get to kind

2:41:22of that 30% design piece with it as

2:41:24well. So there's kind of that sequential

2:41:26piece. So all of that is to say that you

2:41:29know you'll you will we are working

2:41:32toward a point at which as close as is p

2:41:34practical the courthouse would open

2:41:37concurrent with a parking deck as close

2:41:39as as practical with it because we

2:41:41recognize 40 something spaces is not

2:41:43going to serve this courthouse. We've

2:41:44got to have an additional parking deck

2:41:46um within proximity of it. So I just

2:41:48want kind of remind everybody kind of

2:41:49how that sequencing right now is

2:41:51envisioned to to lay out. Obviously any

2:41:53changes in this first step move that

2:41:55that calendar is what would occur.

2:41:57>> I I do understand the sequencing and and

2:42:00how that was unfolded. I think the

2:42:03overarching concern for myself and maybe

2:42:06commissioner Fischer as well is that

2:42:09maybe the sequencing is not what we are

2:42:12comfortable with. maybe the the parking

2:42:15and the design should be should have

2:42:18been together. Um he's mentioned several

2:42:20times like what's the cost? The cost.

2:42:22He's uncomfortable with the cost. It is

2:42:24um a large price tag, but it it's

2:42:27important to know the correlary parking

2:42:30um expenditures that's going to go along

2:42:31with it, not after it.

2:42:34>> Um that's that's for the whole

2:42:35>> and at this stage what we can offer and

2:42:37have offered is kind of an estimate of

2:42:38what those costs are because it's not

2:42:40it's not designed yet. And Bob, is it

2:42:42fair to say just in terms of the

2:42:44concurrent sequencing of the courthouse

2:42:46and the parking that the courthouse is a

2:42:49pretty complex uh structure? Whereas

2:42:52parking decks are a relatively simple

2:42:53construction project and and thus if you

2:42:57have final design of a parking deck lag

2:43:00final design of the courthouse, they

2:43:01could actually be completed

2:43:03approximately at the same time.

2:43:04>> Yeah. I mean, we're trying to avoid any

2:43:06delay with that by trying to design

2:43:08concurrent. I mean, you could take a

2:43:10position where design the courthouse,

2:43:12get it finished, then design the parking

2:43:13deck. We don't want to do that. That's

2:43:14why we're asking kind of for approval

2:43:15for the change orders so we can design

2:43:17those together. Courthouse is probably a

2:43:19two-year construction window. Parking

2:43:21deck will be less than that. Um, so the

2:43:24idea is to try to sync up those

2:43:25schedules um at the at as close to the

2:43:28same time as we possibly can.

2:43:30>> I've got Commissioner Myers and

2:43:32Commissioner Link.

2:43:32>> Yeah. Just uh qui quickly here, I do

2:43:35want to acknowledge that this this

2:43:37schematic that we are approving or not

2:43:39approving also includes interior designs

2:43:42and we have some of leadership from the

2:43:44courthouse here. Um, I went specifically

2:43:47in the agenda report to look to see how

2:43:51involved they were and I'm hoping that

2:43:55they were as involved and are as happy

2:43:57with this layout because, you know,

2:43:59there there's all of us who are going to

2:44:00be riding by it and the architecture,

2:44:03but the people who are using it every

2:44:05day are the ones who need to know that

2:44:06there's enough room, there's enough

2:44:08office space, there's restrooms in the

2:44:10right place and etc. So, uh, and the

2:44:13courouses work, all that kind of stuff.

2:44:15So, um I I hope that that

2:44:18um that agenda report is accurate and

2:44:21that the user group was very uh involved

2:44:24with this because I think that's really

2:44:26important. The other co the other thing

2:44:28is that at the work session some of my

2:44:30colleagues and mayor commissioner link

2:44:33and such made small um suggestions about

2:44:37design like those large columns on the

2:44:39left and I was just wondering about um

2:44:43or the ones that would be on Dority

2:44:44Street that are so high that they don't

2:44:46really you know provide any shade are

2:44:49those things that would might be

2:44:51adjusted in the next stage I mean when

2:44:54you're talking

2:44:55>> yes we actually asked Because as you

2:44:57remember kind of during the meeting I

2:44:58pointed out that we didn't have a quorum

2:45:00at the work session and in addition to

2:45:02that we didn't have agreement even among

2:45:03the folks that were there. The one thing

2:45:04that did kind of

2:45:06>> seem to resonate in within the group was

2:45:08around sort of the colonade and the in

2:45:10the columns that you're making

2:45:11reference.

2:45:12>> So we have asked the architects to take

2:45:13a look at that and see if there are

2:45:15alternatives that may we actually may

2:45:17have some of that information even as

2:45:19soon as the upcoming meeting. I don't

2:45:20know but it is one of those things. It's

2:45:22it's largely

2:45:25exterior kind of additions. It's not

2:45:28structural. It's not. So, I think there

2:45:29are ways to adjust that. Again,

2:45:31hopefully we'll have some sense of what

2:45:33the possibilities are even as soon as

2:45:35the the voting meeting because it was

2:45:37one that came up. I think that it felt

2:45:39like there was at least enough agreement

2:45:40on that um it warranted sort of a deeper

2:45:43look by the architects.

2:45:46>> Commissioner Lake.

2:45:47>> Yeah. I just one quick clarification on

2:45:49the the parking deck that will go along

2:45:52with this. Um parking decks are revenue

2:45:55producing

2:45:57structures. Correct. So the the payment

2:46:00scheme for paying for it is is a lot

2:46:03less complicated, a lot easier to to pay

2:46:05for it and have it pay for itself.

2:46:08Correct.

2:46:10>> Yes and no. Um so the reason I say that

2:46:12is because one aspect is remember this

2:46:15is a courthouse. I mean a a parking deck

2:46:17for a courthouse. So folks that are on

2:46:19juries, those kinds of things wouldn't

2:46:21obviously be would be not paying in

2:46:23there. Probably employees also similarly

2:46:26no different than our other um parking

2:46:27decks. Also we have an arrangement here.

2:46:30Don't know if this one would be arranged

2:46:32in the same fashion where we share in

2:46:34the revenues um that are generated in

2:46:36our parking decks. So um I would not

2:46:39classify it as a as a money maker. I

2:46:42would say yes, there are revenues that

2:46:44are collected that help offset or in

2:46:46[snorts] this case would help make some

2:46:47of the debt service um associated with

2:46:49with the deck, but certainly it's not

2:46:51going to cover the entirety of that that

2:46:52expense. You also can look at things as

2:46:54we have in the Washington uh Avenue um

2:46:57the Washington Street garage where

2:46:59you've got leasable space also that

2:47:00could also um do that. Now, that adds

2:47:03cost to the construction and and

2:47:04potentially the timeline for for the

2:47:07construction, but it may also offer some

2:47:09additional office opportunities or lease

2:47:11opportunities. Those are those are

2:47:13things I think we would look at as we go

2:47:15into the design of the of the parking

2:47:16deck. But yes, I mean the parking deck

2:47:18makes makes revenue and I think you

2:47:20would also want to size it so that it

2:47:22could help offset some of the other

2:47:24parking demands in downtown which

2:47:25certainly would drive revenue to to the

2:47:27garage as well and meet parking needs

2:47:29elsewhere.

2:47:31>> You need a recommendation on what to

2:47:33name this building?

2:47:35Starts with an H, ends with a Y.

2:47:40>> [laughter]

2:47:42>> I'm I'm I'm going to leave that in your

2:47:44own mind, Commissioner Hamby. I

2:47:46appreciate that. Um

2:47:48>> I'll put in the motion.

2:47:49>> All right. Uh item 18 is the Stonehenge

2:47:52Neighborhood Area Pedestrian Improvement

2:47:54Project.

2:47:56>> If I can add one, and this will probably

2:47:58keep it off consent. Sorry. Um, so the

2:48:01um, one item we want to note that will

2:48:03change between today and and regular

2:48:06voting is the the estimates that have

2:48:09been coming in for this project seem to

2:48:10indicate the base bid can be

2:48:12accommodated, but there's a couple of

2:48:14bid alternates that may not be able to

2:48:16be accommodated, but are pretty integral

2:48:17to the to the project. So, we're going

2:48:20to propose language for consideration

2:48:22that would allocate as much as a million

2:48:25dollars of any excess T-sl revenue

2:48:28earned through like interest and those

2:48:30kinds of things be dedicated to actually

2:48:32completing this project. So, that

2:48:34notation will end up in this agenda

2:48:36report between now and then. Um, and so

2:48:39probably will need to be on remain on

2:48:41consideration as well.

2:48:42>> Okay. Yeah, we'll leave it on

2:48:43discussion. Uh, there'll be a couple

2:48:45updates. Uh see number 19 is a

2:48:48department of transportation grant

2:48:50acceptance for an airport layout plan

2:48:53always evolving lay airport um consent.

2:48:56Okay with that.

2:49:00>> All right. Then we have uh three items

2:49:02that are title only. Uh there going to

2:49:04be some board authority commission

2:49:05ordinance changes as recommended through

2:49:07the committee process earlier. I think

2:49:09we're actually going to ask if it's okay

2:49:10if on the board authority commission

2:49:13ordinance change if we go ahead and

2:49:14actually table that over to a sub to the

2:49:18next meeting. There's some additional

2:49:19tweaks that need to be made in that in

2:49:21that ordinance. Even though it's title

2:49:22only right now, it's not really quite

2:49:24ready.

2:49:25>> All right. So that'll

2:49:26>> number 20 will probably move to October,

2:49:28November cycle. Staff just ask

2:49:30everybody's okay have everything there.

2:49:32Um, we do need a a formal update to our

2:49:36um, parking management agreement with

2:49:37the downtown development authority. So,

2:49:39uh, that's title only at this moment.

2:49:41Um, I'm calling a right-of-way committee

2:49:44meeting for next week. Um, Courtney

2:49:48Davis in the attorney's office has been

2:49:50updating a draft of our right-of-way

2:49:52ordinance. Uh effectively it would um

2:49:56focus uh some of the questions before on

2:50:00really those surfaces that are meant for

2:50:02movement, streets, bike lanes, and

2:50:05sidewalks. Uh kind of rather than focus

2:50:07on all public spaces as the prior

2:50:10iteration did. Um and then there going

2:50:12to be some homeless support updates

2:50:14coming both out of the resolution that

2:50:17this body approved as well as some

2:50:18operational changes that the manager is

2:50:20working on as well. Are they going to be

2:50:22posted to the um

2:50:25>> earlier?

2:50:26>> Absolutely. As soon as uh as as soon as

2:50:28those are final. Fortunately, we've got

2:50:30three weeks buffer between now and that

2:50:31meeting.

2:50:32>> Okay. Thanks.

2:50:33>> Motion to move.

2:50:36>> All in favor?

2:50:37>> Any opposed?

2:50:39>> Motion carries.

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