2026-09-15 - Planning Board

00:01the uh September 15th meet um meeting of

00:06the Westboro Planning Board. I'll remind

00:09people that in the back of the room are

00:10hearing

00:12um material for people who have trouble

00:15hearing to help them hear help yourself

00:17to those. Um the first order of business

00:21tonight and we are being recorded by

00:24Westbrow TV.

00:26The first order tonight is a public

00:29hearing for 64 Otis Street, which I will

00:33have to read

00:37the opening for.

00:39Pursuant to the rules and regulations

00:42relative to site plan review under

00:44section 3.1 of the town of Westboro

00:47zoning bylaw, the Westboro Planning

00:50Board will hold a public hearing on

00:52Tuesday, September 15, 2026 at 6:30 p.m.

00:57an application record number 26-02275

01:03requesting modification to the site plan

01:05approval

01:07number 21-049

01:10to launch Prime Air Amazon's drone

01:14delivery service from the SMA1 located

01:17at 64 OD Street Westboro Mass parcel

01:21ID25-3A-

01:25the proposed project will need to

01:27designate a prime air drone delivery

01:29center

01:32PA ADDC within the property boundaries.

01:36The P ADC is utilized as a secure

01:40launchpad for drones to conduct conduct

01:43customer deliveries using inventory from

01:46inside the existing fulfillment center.

01:49The public hearing will be held in the

01:51great hall at the Forbes Municipal

01:53Building, 45 West Main Street, Westboro,

01:56Mass. Please see the calendar on the

01:59Town of Westboro homepage posted 48

02:02hours prior to the public hearing for

02:04additional information. To access the

02:07application and any submitted documents,

02:10please go to our online permitting

02:12system permitpro

02:14https

02:16westbatriotperpro.com

02:19and search the above reference record

02:22number. Records are also available for

02:24view and the Westboro planning board

02:26office at 45 West Main Street Westboro

02:29Mass during regular business hours.

02:32Persons unable to attend may submit

02:34comments in writing to the Westboro

02:36Planning Board in advance of the public

02:38hearing. This was posted in the

02:42community advocate on August 21st and

02:45August 28th.

02:48And I believe we have somebody represent

02:50the applicant here. If you could

02:52introduce yourself, please.

03:00Thank you so much, Madame Chairwoman,

03:02members of the planning board. Great to

03:04be here tonight. My name is Tar Wii. I

03:07am on Amazon's economic development team

03:11and I get the pleasure of trying to plug

03:15this in

03:17and then introducing the concept of

03:19primary drone delivery conceptually and

03:22then of course getting into the site

03:24plan details um in a little bit greater

03:28detail for you all. But wanted to just

03:31start by uh letting you know where we've

03:33been and where we're headed. So, Primare

03:36was a concept as far back as 2013,

03:40uh, when Jeff Bezos himself came up with

03:42the idea, let's continue to deliver for

03:45our customers. Let's do that in a very

03:48fast and efficient and safe manner. And

03:51so, started exploring lots of different

03:53ways that we can do that. One of them

03:55being primary drone delivery. And it has

03:57taken that long for us to get to the

03:59point where we are today where we have

04:02more than a dozen sites in operation

04:04across the country. Um, a couple of

04:06sites launched in the UK and we are

04:10doing hundreds of thousands of drone

04:12deliveries this year alone in 2026 to

04:16our customer base. Um that's just a map

04:19of of places that we have either open or

04:22under construction. And we expect many

04:24more of these delivery locations to be

04:27underway uh by the end of this year for

04:30our our peak shopping season which is

04:33starting now that the leaves are

04:34changing. That's when people uh start

04:36the peak shopping season. So want to

04:40talk a little bit about the drone

04:42itself. Um this is designed and

04:45developed by Amazon. We manufacture our

04:49own drones uh just south of our

04:51headquarters in Seattle, Washington,

04:53where the company was founded. And why

04:56we do that is because we like to control

04:58all of the safety and privacy mechanisms

05:01that are built into this drone. You can

05:03see an image of it here. I hope someday

05:06you'll be able to see it up close um

05:08because it's absolutely astonishing and

05:11a fascinating piece of equipment. Um, it

05:14does stand about 5 1/2 ft tall and 5 ft

05:16wide. Why is it that size? We built in a

05:21redundant system with multiple

05:23propellers. Should any one of those six

05:25propellers fail, our drone can safely

05:28make it back to the station or perform a

05:30safe contingent landing. So, this comes

05:32after years of working with the FAA,

05:35years of testing at our site in Oregon,

05:39years of showing the FAA and other

05:41regulators that we have developed a safe

05:44drone to make these deliveries in a

05:46commercial way. Um, it weighs about 83

05:49pounds with the maximum payload and that

05:52payload is 5 lb or less. So, anything

05:56when you shop on Amazon.com and it's 5

06:00lbs or less and can fit into the size of

06:03about a shoe box, that is likely

06:06eligible for Primeare drone delivery.

06:08So, that happens to be about 60% of the

06:11product that we store in our SMA1

06:13facility and in most of our fulfillment

06:15centers across the country. Um, the

06:18drone itself can make deliveries up to 7

06:21and 12 miles from the facility. That

06:24facility is about two miles as the crow

06:27flies just northwest of where we sit

06:29tonight. Um, and I'll I'll give you more

06:32detail on on where it is and how that

06:34operation will take place in a couple of

06:36slides here. Um, it's fast. So, our goal

06:41with these drones is to get up into the

06:43sky as quickly as possible and then at a

06:45fast cruising speed of 60 to 74 miles

06:48per hour um, at a very high altitude as

06:52it makes its way to the customer's

06:53house. And we have figured out a way to

06:55do this across the country. We're

06:57looking in very cold regions uh about to

06:59open in in near Boise, Idaho. Um looking

07:03across the Mountain West. So we're doing

07:05cold, snowy temperatures. We're doing

07:07very hot in the Phoenix region uh where

07:10it gets to be well over 110 degrees

07:13every day. And our drone can withstand

07:15those types of temperatures. Moderate

07:17wind, moderate rain. Anything else would

07:20probably ground our fleet for the day

07:21until the weather clears. But these are

07:23autonomous vehicles, fully autonomous.

07:26There's nobody controlling the joystick

07:29or watching where the drone is going and

07:32looking at video feed from a drone or

07:34anything like that. These drones have a

07:37set predetermined path, make its way to

07:39that customer's home, drop the package,

07:42and then return to the station. 100%

07:44electric, zero emissions.

07:48some of the advanced features and a lot

07:50of the questions that we get about the

07:51drone. When I go back to this picture,

07:54you can see a couple of sensors and

07:56cameras on the front side of the drone.

07:57So, that's what it looks like in

07:59horizontal flight. Those cameras is part

08:03of our detect and avoid technology. So,

08:06there's a series of sensors and about

08:08six cameras on the drone that can scan

08:11the sky around it as it's flying to make

08:14sure that we can detect anything in the

08:16airspace and make a maneuver to avoid

08:19whatever it is in the in the airspace.

08:21And again, there's no pilot controlling

08:24the drone. The drone itself uses that

08:26technology much like you use a backup

08:29cam in your personal vehicle. It tells

08:32you beep beep beep, stop, stop backing

08:34up until you figure out how to get

08:36around the trash can, the human being on

08:38a bicycle, whatever that is. Our drone

08:40has similar technology built into it.

08:43Um, and we are very proud of that

08:45system. We've been able to deliver

08:47hundreds of thousands of packages safely

08:49to our customers because of that

08:51technology.

08:54So part of being able to operate

08:58commercial drone delivery means getting

09:00the approval from the Federal Aviation

09:02Administration. So anything that is in

09:05the air is controlled and regulated by

09:07the FAA as you well know. So um we have

09:11part 135 air carrier certificate from

09:14the FAA. That means that there is a

09:17special provision in their code that

09:19we're not a we're not an airport. We're

09:21not a helport. We are a specific type of

09:24carrier certificate by the FAA that

09:27allows us to do those commercial drone

09:28operations. That does not mean that we

09:32have cleared the local airspace uh for

09:35which has not yet been approved for

09:37delivering to every single portion

09:40within that 7 and 12 mile region. We are

09:42still underway looking at that and I'll

09:44show you what that looks like on paper

09:46here. As part of that approval process

09:48for the FAA, they looked at our drone.

09:52We flew it for them in person. They

09:54watched us develop this drone. This is

09:56not our first iteration of the drone

09:58either. Um, our current iteration of the

10:01drone is 50% quieter than our last

10:05version of the drone, which was also

10:06already approved by the FAA. We took it

10:09to the next level. We heard immediate

10:11feedback that we'd really like to get

10:13the noise level down on the drone. And

10:15so we did that by more than 50% with the

10:18Mark III drone. Um, well within and well

10:22under the limitations of the FAA, but

10:24they do their own analysis. So they

10:27study sensitive receptors, they study

10:29wildlife corridors, they study anything

10:32as part of these commercial drone

10:34operations that might be an impact to

10:37communities. And they do that through

10:39the National Environmental Protection

10:40Act process. when they issue that NEPA

10:43environmental analysis,

10:46then we can go forward with cleared

10:48airspace for drone delivery at each one

10:50of our new sites.

10:54Want to spend a little bit of time

10:56talking about the customer experience.

10:57So, if any of you in the room are

11:00current Amazon customers, thank you for

11:02that. We appreciate that. We want to

11:04continue to deliver for you. Um, this is

11:06an optional service. So, nobody is

11:09forcing you to receive packages by

11:12drone. If you order something the way

11:14you currently do, you're not all of a

11:15sudden going to receive a package by

11:17drone. You have to sign up. And by

11:20signing up for drone delivery, you go

11:22through the step-by-step process to

11:23confirm that you're within the delivery

11:25area, to confirm that you have given

11:28consent, and to identify, as you see at

11:30the the right of the screen here, areas

11:33on your property that are 18 ft clear

11:36where we could safely uh deliver a

11:40package within your private property.

11:43Many properties like this very nice one

11:45on the screen here have multiple areas

11:47where you could to deliver a drone uh

11:50package to. Some properties that are

11:52smaller might only have one and that's

11:54okay too. But you'll go through that

11:56verification process through Amazon

11:59Prime Air and you will be set up for

12:01drone delivery and next time you click

12:04order um you will receive by drone. You

12:08tell it which spot you'd like to have it

12:10delivered to. That package will be at

12:13your designated area in 60 minutes or

12:16less oftent times at about 30 minutes.

12:20So this is ultra fast delivery compared

12:23to what our customers are used to. It

12:26used to be you know 2 to 3 days and then

12:28it was next day and then it was same day

12:30and now our customers are really pushing

12:32us to the next level to get things

12:34delivered to them quickly. This is one

12:36of the um services that allow us to do

12:39that. When you click order, it

12:42immediately signals our SMA1 facility

12:45over at 64 Otus uh that somebody has

12:48ordered for delivery by drone. um an

12:51associate within our building would

12:53package that into the the drone specific

12:56shoe box size package that we use for

12:59this particular drone. And they would

13:01walk it physically out to the primary

13:03drone delivery center where it would be

13:06loaded onto a drone by another associate

13:09who is trained to be within our our

13:11primary drone delivery center. And that

13:14package would then go through a series

13:16of tests by our flight monitors who

13:19would then give it clearance for takeoff

13:21and make its way onto the customer's

13:23house.

13:25And here's just a graphic of what that

13:26looks like. Again, I mentioned we get as

13:29high into the air as quickly as

13:31possible. That's important from a

13:33nuisance and noise perspective. So, we

13:35get well over 100 ft right out of the

13:37gate from our site before we ever begin

13:40a transition into forward flight. And at

13:43that point, we're flying between 205 and

13:45370 ft in the air, making its way to the

13:49customer. And then we hover down to

13:51about 4 m or 13 ft and drop the package

13:56at the customer's designated location

13:58and then make our way back again at

14:01about 350 370 ft back to the station. If

14:05you imagine a cylinder of about 100 feet

14:09tall, 18 feet wide, that's what it takes

14:14for you to be able to receive a customer

14:16delivery at your home. So, we go

14:18straight up to that 100 foot mark. So,

14:20if there are cables or there's a tough

14:22shed or a trampoline or something else

14:24in the yard that would prevent us from

14:26making that safe delivery, uh you would

14:29have to select somewhere else or you

14:30would be ineligible for drone delivery.

14:34This is a graphic of just what that

14:36looks like um in real time here. Um this

14:40is the vertical descent to the

14:42customer's property. It gets to about 13

14:45ft, drops that package in the designated

14:47zone. Our detect and avoid technology.

14:50Those forward-facing cameras and

14:52rearfacing cameras are really important

14:54for our drone. They allow us to avoid

14:57things that are in the sky and deconlict

14:59the airspace. But we also when the drone

15:03flips to vertical and starts to descend

15:06to the customer's property, we have

15:08cameras there too that scan directly

15:10down on the ground. If a toddler or a

15:13burnadoodle or maybe even a snake,

15:16hopefully not, um, come into that

15:18delivery service area, those cameras

15:21will identify that and tell the drone it

15:23is unsafe to make a delivery. That drone

15:26then makes its own decision to go back

15:28to the station. it will abort the

15:30mission and that customer would not

15:32receive that drone delivery at that

15:34time. They would either receive another

15:36attempt later in the day by drone or

15:39they would receive just standard

15:41delivery by a personal vehicle uh that

15:43same day. But our drones are built to be

15:46safe and to be private. Do they have

15:49cameras? Yes. Nobody is viewing the

15:52cameras. It's not taking live feed

15:54footage as it flies uh forward flight to

15:57the customer's house. it is only using

15:59it for navigation purposes and to make

16:02sure that it can make a safe delivery.

16:04Um, all of that data is completely

16:08encrypted. So, if there were to be an

16:10incident and it detects a burnadoodle,

16:12I'm going to use that as an example.

16:14Then that would go back to the encrypted

16:17data source, only a handful of people in

16:19the company would have access to the

16:20vault where that encrypted data is

16:22stored to be able to review it and say,

16:24"What happened here?" Oh, it was a dog.

16:27And so let's fix that. So we use it for

16:30navigation. We use it for improving the

16:33customer experience and improving the

16:35quality of our drone um and the the

16:38overall experience of drone delivery. We

16:40do not sell data. We do not collect

16:43data. Privacy is just as important as

16:46safety to a company like Amazon. And so

16:49I just wanted to make that that very

16:50clear upfront.

16:53Um, people also ask a lot about the

16:56noise of the drone. And so I mentioned

16:59one way we avoid a lot of the noise is

17:01just by getting into the air as quickly

17:03as possible. So once we're up at that

17:06205 to 370 ft, that is most of the time

17:10imperceptible, especially if you're

17:12indoors. Um, it's this as it's making

17:15its landing or descent to the customer's

17:18property. And at takeoff, that's at its

17:20loudest point at about 65 dB. And that's

17:24about standard traffic down a

17:26residential street. If there were a

17:28garbage truck going down your

17:30residential street at the same time a

17:32drone delivery was taking place, you

17:33would not hear the drone. Um, when it

17:36goes up to that higher altitude and

17:38begins cruising and you're still

17:39standing outside, think of it as holding

17:42an electric toothbrush at arms length.

17:44It's going to be about that same decibel

17:46level. And the whole delivery experience

17:49is about 20 to 25 seconds from the point

17:52it descends, begins its descent, makes

17:55the delivery, and is back up at the

17:57cruising altitude. So, we do it fast. We

18:00do it very, very fast to get back up

18:02into the air quickly to minimize that

18:04impact. Um, but we're very proud of this

18:06iteration of our drone, which again is

18:0850% quieter, um, and allows us to be a

18:13good corporate steward.

18:22Is that better?

18:23>> Yes.

18:23>> Okay,

18:26>> moving right along. Um, want to talk

18:28about the review and approval process.

18:30Tonight is a big part of that approval

18:33process. So, it's a multi-pronged

18:35uh approach that we have to take before

18:38we can start flying drones. I mentioned

18:40briefly the FAA, they're currently

18:42reviewing the airspace. We have a whole

18:44team of airspace regulatory folks who

18:48used to work for the FAA. They were the

18:50people that sit in the flight control

18:52tower and look at the blips on the

18:54screen. Uh they used to fly Blackhawk

18:56helicopters for the army. So we have a

18:58great team with a lot of aviation

19:00experience that is helping us define the

19:03airspace and working with the FAA on

19:05those approvals. But ultimately I' I've

19:07just tried to simplify this. The FAA is

19:10deciding where can we fly our drones,

19:12when can we fly them, and how often can

19:15we fly them? And there are some

19:16limitations with our current carrier

19:19certificate. We can only deliver within

19:21that 7 1/2 mile radius. We can only

19:24deliver during civil twilight hours,

19:27which you can basically think of sunrise

19:29to sunset, so daylight hours. And we can

19:33only do a maximum of a thousand

19:35deliveries per day by drone.

19:39that we have never reached that number.

19:42Um that that's an aspirational goal for

19:45a company like Amazon in the next many

19:47many years. We wanted to be conservative

19:50when the FAA started its approach to

19:52doing the environmental assessment say

19:54assume we're someday going to be able to

19:57reach the capacity of a thousand

19:59deliveries per day. So that's what they

20:01use when they're basing the review for

20:03the environmental assessment. Um but

20:06again, we're going to start very small

20:09um and hopefully work our way up to that

20:11point uh after many many years. So

20:14that's part of it. The second prong is

20:17the host jurisdiction. So we're right

20:19here before you. We met with the select

20:21board last month. Uh we're meeting with

20:23you all tonight, the planning board, and

20:25that is the approval for where we are

20:28taking off and the equipment necessary

20:31in the middle of our parking lot to make

20:34this program work. I'll show you in

20:36detail on the site plan, some of the

20:39equipment that we'll have. It's about

20:408,000 square feet total in our existing

20:43parking lot that allows us to do drone

20:45deliveries. So, that is a land use and

20:47zoning component. So, that's why we're

20:49here tonight. And then there's a lot of

20:50other stakeholders that we've been

20:52meeting with. There's licensing and

20:54registration requirements with MASDOT

20:56through their aviation program. So,

20:58we've already been in contact with them.

21:00There are a lot of airports, a lot of

21:02other airport users. There's a lot of

21:05medical centers with helports. We have

21:07been on the ground running and talking

21:10with all of those additional airspace

21:12users to make sure that we're

21:14deconlicting the airspace. One thing

21:17that's important, another differentiator

21:19between airports and helports versus

21:21commercial drone operators, we're

21:23limited to 400 ft above ground level.

21:26So, we never fly above 400 ft. Um, that

21:29is for a reason because that would be in

21:32controlled airspace and we want to make

21:34sure that we're staying out of that and

21:36that's part of our requirement by the

21:37FAA. Um, and the the final component of

21:41the other stakeholders is our community

21:43engagement piece. And we do have a a big

21:45meeting next week at the Double Tree,

21:48um, where we'll be out hosting a similar

21:51presentation to this, but uh, community

21:53members will have the opport option to

21:55show up and talk to myself and my

21:58colleagues and some of the aerospace

21:59regulatory teams, some of the drone

22:01experts on our team, uh, for any and all

22:04questions that you might have. So, we

22:06encourage everybody to show up to that

22:07event as well.

22:10Let's talk about the Paddock or the

22:12primary drone delivery center. U we'll

22:15zoom in, but again, a couple miles from

22:17where we sit right now is our um SMA1.

22:21It's our same day fulfillment center in

22:23Westboro, and we're doing tens of

22:27thousands of deliveries out of this

22:29facility. the drone portion of that

22:32delivery program is not going to replace

22:35what we're doing in that building. It's

22:36an addition to. And so if you're

22:39currently receiving uh same day product

22:42uh by vehicle or by van, you're going to

22:44continue to receive products that way.

22:46But this is an additional service that

22:48is an option for customers. Again,

22:51certain items that would qualify for

22:53that. And for us to be able to do that,

22:55we need about 27 of our existing parking

22:59spaces. We're required by code to have

23:02114 parking spaces at this facility. We

23:05have 299.

23:08And so we're going to remove 27 of those

23:10parking spaces. Not actually remove them

23:12because we're not disturbing the ground

23:14for this facility, but we're going to

23:16take up the space of what is 27 parking

23:19spaces to do the following things. The

23:23yellow circles are are takeoff and

23:26landing pads. And so a drone will only

23:28take off from the takeoff circle. And

23:31that is um the launch circle at the the

23:35down the one at page down.

23:38Um and it will land on its way home from

23:41the customer's house. Um in the land

23:44circle up at the the top of the page

23:46there. The red circle is our divert pad.

23:49So if there were any issue in the field

23:52back to the Bernadoodle for any reason

23:55that drone has to make its way back to

23:57the station from an unsuccessful

23:59delivery, it's going to go straight to

24:00the divert pad um to see what was the

24:04issue. Why was there a problem? Let's

24:06give it the full inspection. And so that

24:09that's why we have a separate space for

24:10that. And it's larger just in case

24:12there's a problem uh with the drone. The

24:15green trailers are generators and our

24:18battery uh energy storage system. So

24:22these drones are fully electric. I

24:25mentioned that they they run on a

24:26lithium ion battery. We will have a few

24:29dozen of these batteries on site.

24:32They'll be stored in one of the the

24:33trailers in the middle there that is not

24:35highlighted. And to be able to power

24:40those batteries, to make sure that

24:42they're fully charged for the next

24:44delivery, we need power on site. And so

24:46we'll use a series of generators. Uh the

24:49two smaller ones for the batteries are

24:51uh almost fully electric themselves and

24:55are very quiet. And then we'll have a

24:56standard generator um on page left. The

25:00other trailers, the bottommost trailer

25:03stores the actual drones. So, we're

25:05going to start with about a dozen drones

25:06on site. Um, those will rotate through.

25:10Depends on customer demand and capacity

25:12and who all's ordering packages from us

25:14by drone, but a lot of that fleet may be

25:17in service in one particular day. Um,

25:20sometimes not. It's just going to depend

25:22on customer demand at the time, but

25:24they'll be safely stored because they

25:25are expensive equipment. And then that

25:27middle, the uppermost trailer, the one I

25:30have highlighted in blue, this is where

25:32we've created some really cool jobs. So,

25:36if you want to become a commercial drone

25:39operator, you can uh achieve your part

25:42107 FAA certificate. That means you are

25:45officially a commercial drone operator.

25:48Um, and that is through the FAA. We hire

25:52Part 107 certified operators to be our

25:56flight monitors. And again, they're not

25:58controlling the drone, but they're

26:00looking at the drone path, making sure

26:03it's on its intended path, checking the

26:05health and safety of the drones after

26:08each flight and during each flight. And

26:10so, it's important that we have several

26:11monitors either on-site or offsite to

26:14make sure that those deliveries are

26:16being made in a in a safe way. A couple

26:18years ago, we were approved by the FAA

26:20to go beyond visual line of sight. Prior

26:24to that, when we were still in the

26:26infancy of the program, we literally had

26:29uh people on top of uh cranes, cherry

26:33pickers, water towers across the towns.

26:36So, you always had your eyes on every

26:38single drone in the sky. Now, we've been

26:41cleared to not have that level of

26:43service. So, we have flight monitors

26:44instead because our our data allows us

26:46to do that.

26:48As an additional safety mechanism

26:50though, at each of our drone delivery

26:53sites, we still have every 3 hours

26:56individuals who go up to a high point on

26:59the site, oftentimes the roof of the

27:01building, and scan the entire perimeter

27:04just to see if cranes have gone up,

27:07things that weren't registered that were

27:08supposed to receive a permit. Cranes can

27:11go up overnight. We want to make sure we

27:13know where everything is as an

27:14additional safety precaution. We're not

27:17required to do that. We do that for our

27:18own safety and for your safety.

27:22Here's what that delivery service looks

27:24like um as a graphic. That's a 7 and a

27:28half mile radius. Again, pending uh

27:31approval and review and airspace

27:33analysis with our team and through the

27:35FAA. But we're touching a lot of

27:38different communities there. That's the

27:40highlight of of this slide here. And so

27:42that's why it was important for us to

27:44schedule something for next week because

27:46even though the land use approval sits

27:48with Westboro and the airspace approval

27:52sits with the FAA, we realize that we're

27:54going to be doing deliveries in a lot of

27:56other communities. So we want to have

27:58the chance to give this same

28:00presentation uh regionwide to those

28:02folks.

28:04And we start with that delivery service

28:06radius, but here's what it ends up

28:08looking like. Um, in once you go through

28:12the review process, this is an example

28:14from Arizona. Um, the yellow house

28:17looking thing is our fulfillment center

28:19in Talison, Arizona. The yellow

28:22rectangles are runways. So those are

28:25airports, commercial airports, private

28:28uh private airports. So we obviously

28:31have to apply no fly zones over those

28:34areas and and so we don't deliver

28:36anything through or over or beyond

28:38those. The green area we look at ADSB

28:42which is basically what all aircraft

28:46puts out digitally as it's making their

28:49flight paths. So helicopters mostly

28:52airplanes as well. We study that data

28:54for a year and say where is there just a

28:58lot of stuff in the sky that we would

29:01like to avoid. And we'll do that same

29:03thing here in Westboro. And we'll define

29:05no-fly zones which you see in green just

29:08based on how often are we seeing other

29:10low-flying aircraft in that region that

29:12we should stay away from it from those

29:14strict corridors. The purple line there

29:18that you see at the southern edge is

29:20balding eagle nesting habitat. And so

29:24that occurs from the months of December

29:26to March. And so that came out through

29:29the FAA's environmental assessment

29:31through NEPA where they said you cannot

29:34fly across or through that zone for the

29:37months of December to March in Talison,

29:40Arizona. It kind of cuts off a good

29:43portion of our customers there, but it

29:45it that it becomes a no-fly zone for

29:48four months out of the year. So, that's

29:50an important feature. You add all of

29:51those things up and then you get the

29:53blue lines. That is how we reach a

29:55customer from our fulfillment center on

29:59a autonomous flight path that's

30:01predetermined. So, there's no guessing,

30:04there's no joysticking the drone. Um, we

30:07know based on all of that data the best,

30:10quickest way to deconlict the sky and

30:14get to the customer as quickly and as

30:16safely as possible. Um, and so we go

30:19through that level of analysis. And if

30:21you're one of those lucky flight

30:22monitors, these are really cool jobs.

30:24We're seeing a lot of interest from

30:25existing employees within our warehouses

30:28that say, "I want to do that." And so we

30:31actually pay for them to get their Part

30:33107 certificate to get these jobs.

30:36They're looking at a number of things on

30:37the screen. Again, they're not looking

30:39at camera feed, video feed that doesn't

30:41exist. They're looking at blips on a

30:43line to see if it's on its intended

30:45path. They're seeing the health of the

30:48overall drone fleet. They're seeing the

30:50health of the particular drone making a

30:52single delivery. And then they're

30:54looking at the flight path and the

30:55trajectory.

30:58Um, I want to just wrap up here because

31:01I I know that was a lot, but it it's

31:02it's all important as it relates to the

31:04site plan here, but community engagement

31:07is a big part of what we do. We're not

31:09always required to do it. We think it's

31:11important. We learn a lot from our

31:13customers. It's the reason that we

31:15continue to innovate and develop

31:16products that better serve communities

31:19and better serve our existing customers.

31:22And if you're not a customer, we still

31:24see you as an important part of this

31:25process and we want to hear from you.

31:27So, we'd love to uh meet with you next

31:31Wednesday evening at the Double Tree,

31:335:00 to 7:00, 5 to 6, it'll just be

31:36walking around, hanging out with us,

31:38picking up some cool Prime Air branded

31:41uh swag, but then having one-on-one

31:44conversations or small group

31:45conversations, and then I'll I'll do a

31:47formal presentation at 6:00. Um and

31:50really hope to see you and your friends

31:52there. And that is it. I know that was

31:56many many slides but that context I hope

31:59is helpful to your overall review.

32:02>> Uh thank you very much. That really

32:04gives us some basic understandings of

32:06what Amazon's looking to do. I think

32:09obviously we as a board have some

32:11questions on this, but I think um we may

32:14have more questions after we you've had

32:16your presentation to the town next week

32:19or to the community next week and we'll

32:22get some more feedback at that time from

32:25them. So I but I think we probably all

32:27have some preliminary questions and I'm

32:30just going to kind of run them through

32:31the board here and see what kind of

32:34questions we had on that basis.

32:36Caroline, would you like to start on

32:39that?

32:39>> Sure. Um, you mentioned for the actual

32:44site where the drones and all the

32:45storage and everything is that the

32:47ground won't be disturbed. I'm just

32:49curious is like is this a raised

32:51platform or what does this look like?

32:54>> So, it is not a raised platform. We're

32:56not doing any um disturbance of the

32:59ground whatsoever. So, these are all

33:01trailers that are brought in to the

33:03existing

33:04>> on the parking lot surface. Okay.

33:06Exactly. And then there'll be a a fence.

33:08Uh we've got jersey barriers protecting

33:10all of that equipment around the

33:12perimeter. And then there'll be a kind

33:14of a a mesh topper on top of those just

33:18as an additional aesthetic screen.

33:20>> Okay. How tall is the fence?

33:22>> Uh will be less than six feet.

33:26>> I think we had an image of that in our

33:29materials as well in the the official

33:32packet.

33:37Carolyn, did you have anything? Um,

33:39>> no, not at this time. Sorry. Thank you.

33:41>> Yes.

33:42>> Um, yeah, I just have a couple of

33:43questions. Thank you for this. This was

33:45really helpful. Um, as well as the the

33:47presentation that you gave um to the

33:49select board. So, thank you. Definitely

33:51appreciate the um the outreach um and

33:54the opportunity for dialogue. So, I have

33:57a couple of questions. Um,

34:01uh, I know you talked about, so a

34:03thousand deliveries a day is kind of

34:06like I think 2031 is the year when

34:09that's expected. What types of numbers

34:12are you looking at in some of your other

34:14locations? Um, currently?

34:16>> Yeah, great question. So, again, I

34:18mentioned aspirationally, we would love

34:21to get to a thousand deliveries per day.

34:23Right now, at some of our busiest sites,

34:25we're in the five to 600 deliveries per

34:27day. Okay, that's helpful. Um, in a

34:32number of the uh current locations, uh

34:36there have been documented reports of

34:40noise complaints after the fact. I know

34:43that in some of the locations the time

34:46has been kind of truncated in terms of

34:48when exactly

34:50um you know you'll you'll be operating.

34:54what from those communities um have you

34:59uh looked at kind of adjusting to try

35:01and account for some of those uh earlier

35:04on in the process as you expand?

35:07>> Yeah, great question and we yes we have

35:10had some complaints but honestly very

35:14few complaints related to noise and

35:16flyover. Um, we're getting a lot of

35:19questions just about the drone itself

35:21and a lot of curiosity about it and a

35:24lot of interest in the program. How do I

35:26sign up? Out of hundreds of thousands of

35:29deliveries, it's a handful of questions

35:32of too many drones flying over my home

35:35or noise complaints. It is a very very

35:38small percentage. And so we do respond

35:41to those and we've had a couple of

35:43instances where enough people have

35:45reached out uh to where we've sent our

35:48team, our airspace team back on the

35:50regulatory side to say, can you

35:52investigate what's happening here? And

35:54so they can go in just like our flight

35:56monitors can do here. We have all of

35:59that data. And so we can go into the

36:02depth chart and the density chart and

36:04see how often are customers ordering at

36:07particular locations and how are we

36:09getting to those customers over time. In

36:12a very rare instance, we have adjusted,

36:16but that that would be an an extreme

36:18case where we've adjusted a flight path.

36:20Um there's a little bit of a whack-a-ole

36:23problem when you adjust flight paths in

36:26one area.

36:27>> Sure. you're actually causing a

36:28different issue somewhere else and so we

36:30take that notion very seriously too but

36:33we do investigate them.

36:35>> Okay. Thank you.

36:36>> Um

36:38other questions I have so I think

36:40Michigan in looking at the other

36:42locations believe there's one in

36:44Michigan.

36:44>> There is.

36:45>> That's probably I think you said Idaho

36:47is coming soon potentially. Michigan's

36:50probably the only other um comparable

36:53location where they have snow. Can you

36:56talk about um what this program looks

37:00like in um a New England winter?

37:06>> Dare I use a perfect example? Um

37:09>> I will be meeting with Syracuse very

37:11soon. My hometown. Okay, good. So, um

37:15there's a snow issue in Syracuse.

37:17There's a snow issue in Denver. We're

37:18looking at Denver. There's snow in

37:20Idaho. And so, we have found ways to be

37:23able to make deliveries. Um, it's not

37:26always going to be possible. And I think

37:27that's an important part of this program

37:29is that it's a supplemental option.

37:32There are going to be days when our

37:33drones can't fly for many reasons. Um,

37:37that could be that there's a fire on the

37:39other side of town and um or the police

37:41chief calls, Chief Manardi calls and

37:43says, "We have an issue. We need you to

37:45ground your fleet. We'll stop all the

37:47drones during that time, too." Um, but

37:50for cold weather and some light

37:52precipitation, we have figured out a way

37:54to to make these deliveries safe.

37:57>> Okay, that's helpful. I think arguably

37:59we have probably more than light

38:01precipitation u so does Syracuse, right,

38:03for a lot um a lot of the year. So I

38:06would love to hear a little bit more

38:07about um what that looks like in terms

38:11of can you not order that day? Like what

38:14is that um kind of what are the

38:15implications? So we we we'll have a

38:18weather station um as part of this

38:21development and we have a weather

38:22station with each of our drone delivery

38:25centers. So we are always actively

38:28monitoring the skies,

38:30>> right?

38:30>> Um continuously when we do drone

38:32operations. Sometimes we won't be able

38:33to fly, most times we will. And it was

38:37one of the initial checkpoints for us

38:38when we when we have a concept like

38:41primary drone delivery and we start

38:42looking around our network. Where would

38:44we like to do this? Customer reach of

38:46course is a big part of that. Where do

38:48we have Amazon customers that are

38:50demanding a lot of really fast delivery

38:52times? You have that. We would not have

38:55looked and gone this far down if we

38:58didn't think we could do it with the

38:59climate.

39:00>> Got it. Uh, another question for you.

39:02So, um, in terms of the flights getting

39:05rerouted because of, you know,

39:08burnadoodles, kids, squirrels, what have

39:11you, um, kind of what's that, uh, what

39:15is that percentage? And then when you

39:18have those uh instances, do you then

39:22count the actual delivery as a new

39:24flight or is that still like flight A in

39:29terms of like I'm thinking about like

39:30volumes if something

39:32>> pinging the thousand? Is that what

39:33you're getting at?

39:34>> Well, I'm getting at yes. So like when

39:36you're counting 500, is that 500

39:40attempts overall? Is that 500

39:43successful? But maybe they were 800 or

39:45900 because of um kind of interference.

39:48>> Oh no, there it's a it's very few

39:52flights that actually have an incident

39:54whatsoever that would have to return to

39:56station.

39:56>> Okay.

39:57>> So I don't have the exact percentage,

39:58but it's very very small to the multiple

40:01decibel or decimal point.

40:04>> So it's not going to be hundreds of

40:06flights per day. It might be one.

40:09>> Okay. Um, but I don't want to miswer

40:11that because I don't know how we would

40:13count it. Um, and I don't want to answer

40:16in the wrong way before I know for sure.

40:18>> Okay.

40:18>> But I will gather that.

40:19>> Okay. Thank you.

40:20>> Jonathan has jotted that down for me.

40:24>> Thank you, Jonathan. Um, so the um you

40:27talked about the FAA and the

40:29environmental analysis required um by

40:32the National Environmental Policy Act.

40:34Can you talk a little bit more about how

40:37that's done? Um, and the timeline ob the

40:40the Otis Street location is is um I

40:44believe a budding conservation, but Hoko

40:47uh Hokamo Pond, however you say that

40:49right, is like right behind it. Um, can

40:52you talk a little bit more about the

40:53environmental process?

40:55>> Yes,

40:55>> specifically to Westboro. Yeah, ideally

40:57we would have everything aligned to

40:59where we're we're pulling a building

41:01permit and the FAA approval comes in and

41:04it's all good to go within a week. It

41:06doesn't usually happen that way. So we

41:09have been working all of those channels

41:11concurrently with the hope that our FAA

41:14airspace approval would happen by the

41:17end of this year so that we would be

41:19able to begin operations if we also have

41:21approval from the planning board and

41:23then are issued a a building permit

41:25subsequently to be able to operate. It's

41:27underway. I don't know what the result

41:29is going to be. But what we have found

41:31um in those adjacency issues because you

41:34saw that in our our Talison example too.

41:37We're immediately abuing a major single

41:40family detached subdivision right behind

41:42the fulfillment center. Well, our drones

41:45go straight up into the air and then fly

41:47north at that facility. So, that was not

41:49an issue. Same thing with

41:51environmentally sensitive areas because

41:53we are vertically ascending rather than

41:55flying over like an airplane or some

41:58type of aircraft would do with manned

42:00systems. We go straight up before we

42:03begin forward flight. So it's usually

42:05not an impact and we would expect that

42:08to happen here too.

42:09>> Okay.

42:10Um my last question is on data.

42:14>> Yeah.

42:15>> So and data collection. I've heard from

42:17many many people in this town that while

42:20the noise is a concern, uh data and

42:24privacy is a huge concern. um including

42:26multiple people who have um mentioned to

42:30me that their home is blurred out on

42:32Google Maps because they just don't want

42:35um pictures of their house, their kids,

42:38etc. out there. Can you um talk a little

42:41bit more about expectations with data

42:45and then what is visible to us as um as

42:49a town and potential customers in terms

42:52of how data how images of our backyard

42:55may or may not be shared or stored. I I

42:59know that there's no intent um but there

43:02are within Massachusetts as I'm sure you

43:04know a lot um regulations around drone

43:08privacy

43:09um uh capturing of information. So uh

43:13kind of what are some of the

43:15reassurances other that are not you know

43:19we won't share um

43:21>> yeah well

43:24>> privacy is everything to us as a company

43:28as you can imagine we have millions of

43:30customers across the globe without the

43:33drones even in question we operate AWS

43:36which is our our data side of the system

43:39many very large companies depend on us

43:42to protect their privacy and their

43:44customers privacy as well. That is

43:46paramount to the success of every

43:48program that we do. Even more so in this

43:51particular instance. So just to

43:53reiterate again, and I get the

43:55sensitivity of it, there's a lot of this

43:58out there right now. There's cameras on

43:59a lot of things.

44:00>> Yeah,

44:01>> my home is blurred out because my

44:03neighbor blurred his out and it actually

44:04captured mine, too. So, we have a chat

44:07about that later. But um we do not

44:09collect images of anybody's backyards.

44:13We just don't. We're not taking

44:14pictures. The drone is using those

44:16cameras and sensors to navigate through

44:18the airspace so that it if it sees

44:21something, it will be able to navigate

44:24around and avoid potential conflict with

44:27that item. And then again as it's

44:29descending in that cylinder 18 feet wide

44:33to scan and make sure nothing is

44:34immediately under it, nothing is

44:37collected. And if that drone is

44:39delivered or the package is delivered

44:40safely, the next flight records right

44:43over that one. And so there is no

44:45storing of that data. If there was

44:47anything collected, again, no live video

44:50feed. It It's not taking pictures of

44:53people around it as it's making a

44:55delivery. It's not looking into your

44:56home. It's not doesn't have facial

44:59identifying um technology built into it.

45:02It's just scanning the ground to make

45:03sure nothing is in the way to deliver

45:05the package. If there is an incident,

45:08that's an encrypted file that goes into

45:10a vault. I'm not able to get into that

45:12vault. Very few people in the entire

45:14company can go in there and say, "What

45:17happened? And who do we need to share it

45:19with?" If it were a serious incident,

45:22let's say, that involved the NTSB,

45:25>> y

45:26>> then we would have to share that data

45:27with the NTSB so that they could

45:29complete their investigation. Barring

45:32that, it would be a serious discussion

45:33of whatever gets shared beyond that

45:36vault.

45:38>> Okay. Thank you. Those are all my

45:40questions.

45:42>> I I want to sorry, I I'm passionate

45:45about this, too. So,

45:47we've also been working with your

45:49emergency responders on this. We know

45:52that we're not the only ones who plan on

45:54using drones. Um, we're using them to

45:58deliver packages for our customers. A

46:00lot of emergency responders use them as

46:03um first response. They'll send out a

46:05drone and those do have cameras and

46:07those are looking for things. Our drones

46:10are not doing the same thing that those

46:12types of drones are, but we work very

46:14closely with those departments to make

46:17sure that we're deconlicting the

46:18airspace. So all again, safety, privacy

46:23paramount to everything that we do at

46:25the company and we're proud of where

46:27we've come over the the past decade in

46:30this program.

46:32>> Um, thank you. Just a few questions from

46:35me. Um could you go to the slide that I

46:39think it was um in Arizona kind of the

46:41flight path

46:42>> y

46:43>> um I thought that was an interesting

46:45slide. What what's the possibility of

46:48producing that for this area?

46:51>> We are producing this for this area

46:53>> before we make a decision. it it won't

46:57the FAA's review of the airspace will

46:59not be part of this decision and so this

47:03will likely lag behind until right

47:05before our operations and this is fluid

47:08I should mention too so I've been using

47:11this slide for several months at this

47:13point it's not accurate for the Talison

47:17case anymore because people build new

47:19helports and they build new runways and

47:22there more operators and different types

47:24of airspace constraints that might

47:26change that. So, it's very fluid and

47:28constantly evolving.

47:30>> And say if there's a new medical center,

47:33something that's built in town.

47:35>> Yep.

47:36>> You guys come after that, like you would

47:38have to change your flight path for

47:40that.

47:40>> Exactly. Yep. And so, the good thing

47:43about medical centers, and I didn't

47:45mention this, but the red circles are

47:47those helports. Um, those are important,

47:51but they're flying at a much higher

47:53altitude than the drones are flying

47:55typically. So, we stay away from a a

47:59smaller circle versus the runways where

48:01it takes them a long time to get up and

48:03down from the ground. So, we have a much

48:05bigger distance that we have to keep

48:06from those. But each time there's a new

48:08medical center, it's really important to

48:11have that open dialogue, which is why

48:13we're constantly going to be in

48:14communication with your emergency

48:16responders, your manager, everybody who

48:20knows on the ground who else we should

48:22be talking to and and we'll keep our

48:23finger on the pulse there.

48:25>> Um, tell me a little bit about the

48:27packaging.

48:28>> Right. So, you're dropping a package

48:31from 13 feet up, right? So, it's

48:34>> seems kind of crazy, right? If if any

48:37delivery driver threw a package at my

48:39front doorstep, I'd be like, "This is

48:41kind of insane." So

48:42>> So just so thinking like how

48:45>> how do you determine what goes into the

48:47package and then

48:50>> then how do you make sure it's,

48:52>> you know, doesn't cause a a hazard or it

48:55gets destroyed when it when it falls?

48:58>> Yeah. So this is one of the safest ways

49:01for us to do delivery to protect the

49:04items. Um, it all comes in the same box

49:07and so we know exactly how to pack that

49:09box and how to use paper wading around

49:11the items in that box to make sure that

49:13they are well protected versus

49:15everything else that you might get

49:16delivered by van or by vehicle. They're

49:18different shapes, different sizes. Some

49:21of them get thrown. We don't like to

49:22hear that or to see that, but it

49:24happens. um virtually when this package

49:28gets dropped from 13 feet, it finds its

49:30way to the ground almost immediately and

49:33we're delivering AirPods, iPads, glass

49:37bottles of salad dressing, things that

49:39you would never imagine could be dropped

49:41from 13 ft in the air and we're doing

49:43hundreds of thousands of those without

49:45incident at all.

49:47Sometimes you might see a ribbon on a

49:50box like let's say you order a package

49:52of stickers or something extremely light

49:55uh for a birthday party or something. We

49:57might put a ribbon on the box just to

49:59make sure it like comes to the ground

50:00straight without blowing away.

50:02>> Sure.

50:03>> But yeah, it it is surprising what we

50:05can deliver safely by drone. Um,

50:09one is probably going to put you on the

50:10spot here, but out of all the markets

50:14that you've deployed this, tell us like

50:17what has been the worst case scenario,

50:19worst incidents that you've had with the

50:21drones.

50:25>> That question does come up. I'm sure it

50:27does.

50:27>> Yeah. Um, so I

50:29>> because everything sounds cool and and

50:30amazing, right?

50:31>> It is cool. So it, as you can imagine,

50:33again, I'm going to go to that hundreds

50:35of thousands of deliveries this year

50:38alone with zero incident. There have

50:41been some recorded incidents. Um, I'll

50:43leave it to you to go online and and see

50:45some of those national stories that were

50:47out, but we have had some miscues on the

50:50delivery side where packages end up in

50:52um um recreation areas like your

50:56swimming pool. Um, that one's not that

50:58bad. It's it's interesting and it's it

51:01immediately sent our team back to the

51:03drawing board to say how did that

51:05happen? What are we doing about it to

51:07improve and make sure that it doesn't

51:08happen again? So it it wasn't something

51:11in its way. It was just a small area of

51:15a pool. Um we had another recordable

51:18incident actually in in this region

51:20that's on the screen here where there

51:23was a crane that had gone up overnight

51:26without a permit. So, if you know

51:28anything about the FAA, if you're

51:30putting up a crane to do any type of

51:32business, you have to get a permit um so

51:36that they can control the airspace.

51:38Well, it wasn't permitted and we didn't

51:40know about it and our drone was um made

51:43impact with one of the cranes and

51:46brought the crane to ground. Um our

51:49drone was impacted, people were not

51:51impacted, so we're very happy about

51:53that. Um, so people have not been hurt.

51:57Our drone continues to be improved from

51:59a safety standard standpoint. um and to

52:03avoid incidents like that. Um we're

52:05doing a heck of a job with a very strong

52:07team out at our manufacturing facility

52:10to make sure that even though those

52:12fraction of a percentage point of

52:15incidents out of the hundreds of

52:17thousands of deliveries have occurred

52:20and um that's not fun, but it it does

52:23push us to be better each time. And

52:26>> what does the quality control look like

52:28when you're manufacturing them, the

52:30drones?

52:32I would hope to bring you there someday

52:34and be able to to show you that whole

52:35process. It like any other manufacturing

52:38facility. Um we are making things um

52:42with a lot of care and feeding and

52:45research and development. In this case,

52:47more than a decade plus of research and

52:49development. So we care very deeply

52:52about this program. Um and that is

52:55evident. And if you haven't been into

52:56one of our facilities,

52:59it's much different from most warehouses

53:01that are also doing fulfillment. When

53:03you walk in, it is noticeable that

53:07they're meticulous about everything.

53:09Amazon, we care about everything down to

53:11the detail. Um, and that goes right into

53:14this program.

53:15>> Um, just two more. Um, one next week,

53:20um, will you demonstrate

53:23like a a just sending a drone up and

53:26bringing it down? Are you able to do

53:27that or is that not

53:28>> No, until we have clearance from the

53:30FAA, we cannot fly a drone.

53:32>> Um, and the last is do you partner with

53:35um municipality like the police

53:37department, fire department?

53:39>> Yes. Is there ways you guys can partner

53:43um providing I don't know maybe they

53:46need drones for some of their work. I

53:48don't know if that's stuff that you've

53:49done with other communities across the

53:51country.

53:52>> We don't partner in that way. Um but I

53:56will tell you that one of the first

53:57meetings we had was with Chief Manardi

53:59and the fire marshal at the time who was

54:01since retired. Um lucky him. But um we

54:05work very closely with them. Um, and our

54:08goal is to continue to hold that

54:10relationship dear to us. They're going

54:13to be issued an emergency contact number

54:15that is not publicly shared, but our

54:17site leader at our facility will have

54:20immediate access to them and they will

54:22have immediate access to our site leader

54:25so that if there's anything that either

54:27team needs, we can have it happen in

54:29seconds. We can ground the entire fleet

54:31in seconds

54:32>> and they can determine if it needs to be

54:35grounded.

54:35>> Yep. say like indefinitely if they find

54:38like there's some major safety hazard

54:40>> that that's that's your call, not our

54:41call. So, um maybe not indefinitely. We

54:44I mean the FAA controls the airspace,

54:46but if there's an incident somewhere in

54:49the community that needs to be avoided

54:51for a set period of time, then yeah,

54:53we're going to avoid that area and

54:55ground it immediately.

54:56>> Okay, go ahead.

54:58>> Thank you. Um I'm coming from sort of a

55:01different direction. Um the town of

55:04Westboro is very very proud of our green

55:07space and the ability of people to use

55:10outdoor activities. Um this includes

55:14soccer fields, um walking trails, etc.

55:18Um I've heard from a number of people in

55:20town that are concerned obviously about

55:23the peace and quiet which we enjoy when

55:26being outdoors um by having drones

55:30flying overhead. And it's not just the

55:32sound, it's the um it's the drone

55:36itself. I mean, it just takes your eye

55:39and catches. Um the other thing which is

55:42a personal problem that I deal with is

55:45the fact I happen to have a farm that

55:47has cows and cows get spooked by drones

55:52and as do horses. We also have horses

55:55here in town. And um are we as a

56:00community going to have any say over

56:04setting up some exclusionary zones where

56:07drones may not fly?

56:11>> That's a multifaceted question. So I'm

56:12going to try to remember them all and

56:14answer them in order. um your first

56:17question about the drone itself and

56:20people love the green space and they

56:22don't want to be bothered not just by

56:23the noise part of it but by the visual

56:25aspect of just having to see a drone.

56:29I'm going to go back to what I've

56:31reiterated here is that we get

56:33immediately up to cruising altitude as

56:35quickly as possible. So, if it passes

56:38over a soccer field, let's say, that's

56:40going to be 10 seconds maximum that it

56:43would go over that. And we're talking

56:45throughout the day, it would depend on

56:47our customers ordering from one

56:50particular area, several times in that

56:52same day to bring that drone over that

56:55soccer field repeatedly. That's just not

56:58what we've seen in our experience across

57:00all of the communities we're where we're

57:02delivering. So, yeah, you might see a

57:04drone if you're looking for it. Um, or

57:07if you're closer to the takeoff point or

57:09if you're close to a customer that is

57:11receiving a package, you might see it as

57:13it's descending, but you're not going to

57:15see it 350 ft in the air unless you're

57:18really looking for it. And you're

57:20certainly not going to hear it at that

57:21height, especially if you're at a soccer

57:23game. Um, so that's that part of it. For

57:27the agrarian part of it, we're

57:29delivering over very large portion of

57:33land within a seven and a half mile

57:35radius.

57:37If there's a customer that would require

57:39our drone to fly over that space that

57:42might contain animals of any sort, um

57:45we're going to be at a pretty high

57:46altitude at that point. And from our

57:48experience, there has not been issues.

57:50We had similar concerns um in Kansas

57:53City and other Missouri sites. We've had

57:55similar concerns in the Chicagoland land

57:56area of agrarian animals um being

58:00distracted or disturbed by the drones

58:02and we just haven't seen that play out

58:04in that way. So um we've had the same

58:08question about dogs as well and it's it

58:10has just been a non-issue. So we will

58:14continue monitoring that. What Amazon

58:16doesn't do, we we've got a saying that

58:18it's always day one at Amazon. And if we

58:22were to stop looking at how our drones

58:25are impacting communities or how uh we

58:28are delivering for our customers, then

58:29that would be a day two experience for

58:32for our full team and our program. So,

58:34we're constantly taking feedback, doing

58:38something with that feedback to make

58:39sure that each iteration is an

58:42improvement over the prior. And we have

58:44we have the same goals here.

58:47>> Well, I understand that, but I'd still

58:48at the same time, do we as a town or

58:51community have any control over areas in

58:55which we do not wish zone supply?

58:57>> I knew I would forget one of a

58:59multi-parter. So, my apologies there.

59:01So, will you have the ability to control

59:03where those no-fly zones are? That would

59:06be very rare for us to just apply nofly

59:11zones. um that airspace is controlled by

59:14the FAA. And so when we move a fly zone,

59:18let's say we establish like we did here

59:20in Talison based on the bald eagle

59:23nesting habitat, now a drone to reach

59:26some of those customers would have to go

59:28around a certain way. And in this case,

59:29they can't get there at all. But where

59:32you are establishing any no-fly zone,

59:35you're actually creating corridors in

59:38the process. So, if we were to respond

59:41in a way that just established no-fly

59:44zones because you didn't want drones

59:46flying over that airspace, um the

59:49program would not be able to function

59:51much like airliners would not be able to

59:54fly their passengers from city to city u

59:57because they they need the corridors.

1:00:00That's why that is controlled by the

1:00:01FAA.

1:00:02>> I mean, essentially, you're saying that

1:00:03we really don't have any control.

1:00:06I'm not saying that because there are

1:00:08there are certain instances where we

1:00:10have reviewed data and done our

1:00:12investigations and said look we are

1:00:14creating an unnecessary corridor here

1:00:17that we could use our system

1:00:21to reset the algorithm and and get to a

1:00:24a customer's house in a different way.

1:00:27But it would be very extremely rare for

1:00:30us to apply a no-fly zone in that

1:00:32instance.

1:00:36The one I'm hearing is we have no

1:00:38control.

1:00:38>> That's good.

1:00:40>> All right. Um is there any poss I this

1:00:45um the whole project I find difficult to

1:00:48come to terms with because a um you seem

1:00:52to be unable to demonstrate to us what

1:00:56it's going to sound like and what it's

1:00:58going to look like and it makes it very

1:01:01difficult for me to um come to grips

1:01:05with what this project how the effect of

1:01:08this project is going to be on the town

1:01:11when those are kind of two basic things

1:01:13that I have I I don't know about I

1:01:17cannot hear I cannot see

1:01:22I appreciate that feedback um I've shown

1:01:26you images at some point I would love

1:01:28for you to see our drones um I would

1:01:32love to for you to see one in action

1:01:34that is the only clear way to be able to

1:01:37see for yourself

1:01:40What does the drone look like and how

1:01:42what does it sound like as it's making a

1:01:44delivery? We just can't do that until we

1:01:46have clearance from the FAA to operate a

1:01:49drone here. So, I I can't show you. What

1:01:52I can talk to you about is our land use

1:01:55application for everything on the ground

1:01:56in our parking area that it's required

1:01:58to run this program.

1:02:00>> You know,

1:02:00>> I can talk about those things, but and I

1:02:02realize it's a bit nebulous, which is

1:02:04why we've done the sound study, why

1:02:06we've taken the the great care

1:02:09to reduce the sound by more than 50% on

1:02:12this particular drone. Um, and our last

1:02:15drone was approved by the FAA and we

1:02:17went beyond that.

1:02:19>> I know, but the thing is we're dealing

1:02:21with a community that would like to know

1:02:23what we're getting ourselves into. And I

1:02:26I really feel this is a you know,

1:02:29there's got to be some way that you

1:02:31should be able to demonstrate these

1:02:33things. I mean, it's it's a major thing

1:02:35in our community to put this kind of a

1:02:38facility in.

1:02:40>> Well, and not just our community, but

1:02:42we're talking about four or five other

1:02:44towns, and I have had information from

1:02:48other towns. They're also concerned

1:02:50about this.

1:02:52>> I would love for you to connect with the

1:02:54other communities where we're doing

1:02:55deliveries. I would love for you to

1:02:57visit our website. We have a YouTube

1:03:00channel as well where you can view the

1:03:03drone as it's making deliveries. Um, I

1:03:06think that's really an important part of

1:03:08the program. I understand there's some a

1:03:11little bit unsettled nature of something

1:03:14new. Um, but I will tell you that we're

1:03:18doing ful customer fulfillment in lots

1:03:21of different ways and many companies are

1:03:23doing customer fulfillment in lots of

1:03:25different ways. And what we didn't think

1:03:27possible 20 years ago is now possible.

1:03:30And so this is the next iteration of

1:03:33being able to deliver for our customers.

1:03:35That doesn't mean that it's not going to

1:03:38change over time and we're not going to

1:03:40continue to iterate, but right now we

1:03:43have to follow the process that is

1:03:45before us, which is that three-pronged

1:03:47approach. We're meeting with the

1:03:49stakeholders. We're meeting with the

1:03:51community members. We're meeting with

1:03:52the fire department, with the other

1:03:54emergency responders. We're coming to

1:03:56the select board and to the planning

1:03:58board for the land use component piece

1:03:59of it, and then we're going through the

1:04:02FAA for everything that takes place in

1:04:04the sky. And that took us more than a

1:04:07decade for this particular drone to be

1:04:11able to test and develop to where the

1:04:13FAA under the environmental regulation

1:04:15said, "Yes,

1:04:18this is a safe drone to be able to

1:04:20deliver for your customers across the

1:04:22network. Now go inside the seven and a

1:04:25half radius and figure out that

1:04:27particular airspace." So, I get it.

1:04:30There's there's some trust there.

1:04:35And that's really the end of my

1:04:36questions at the moment. Um, John, did

1:04:39you have anything further?

1:04:40>> Yeah. Um, I'm going to try and keep my

1:04:42questions light since I had to step out

1:04:44and don't want to ask questions again,

1:04:46but there are some things that I um

1:04:48wanted to just get some answers or at

1:04:50least bring up now. Um, that required

1:04:52sign up, is that going to be in

1:04:54perpetuity or is that something that's

1:04:55going to get sunseted and eventually

1:04:56that will just be the option that people

1:04:58will get their packages delivered from?

1:05:02always is always going to be something

1:05:03that you have to opt into

1:05:06>> this will be supplemental for the as far

1:05:09as I can tell for now that this you will

1:05:13have to sign up to be a drone now 10

1:05:15years from now I don't know but right

1:05:18now this is an optional service

1:05:20>> right um and then I guess the noise

1:05:24level is all you know in your NEPA and

1:05:27and other filings and stuff like that

1:05:30>> um and those are for the the what is it

1:05:32the Mark 30

1:05:33>> correct? That's our

1:05:34>> and that's a 5 lb max limit. I assume

1:05:38moving forward there's going to be ch uh

1:05:40plans to change that and carry heavier

1:05:43payloads and so you're going to require

1:05:45heavier and larger drones and the sound

1:05:48from those will be no they're they're

1:05:50going to not be louder.

1:05:51>> I'm not sure that that's a fair

1:05:52assumption. I I think what I mentioned

1:05:55was 60% of our product fits inside of

1:05:58that box and is 5 pounds or less.

1:06:01That's a lot of product within an Amazon

1:06:05fulfillment. So the need to go beyond

1:06:07that to deliver dog food or something,

1:06:10>> I don't think that's part of the program

1:06:11>> or multiple 5 lb packages, right? If

1:06:13somebody orders several things that are

1:06:152 or three lbs and then you get over 5

1:06:17lbs in that one delivery. We're not

1:06:18currently designing for a heavier.

1:06:20>> That's what I'm saying is you're not

1:06:21currently designing for that, but that

1:06:23may be an option in the future, which

1:06:25will then necessitate larger drones,

1:06:27which may be louder drones, and we won't

1:06:29have this process or have any uh

1:06:32association with the FAA filing to

1:06:34understand what's happening. So, these

1:06:36changes can happen without anyone really

1:06:38knowing they're happening.

1:06:40>> Well, is that a wrong assumption?

1:06:43>> I'm I'm not going to call you wrong. I'm

1:06:45I'm going to say that we have spent so

1:06:49much time reducing the sound of our

1:06:52current drone that to go the other way

1:06:54would not be beneficial for us.

1:06:56>> I'm not saying to go the other way. I'm

1:06:58saying you're going to have to scale up.

1:06:59You don't

1:07:00>> Sure.

1:07:00>> When you're delivering, you don't use

1:07:02short trucks all the time. Sometimes you

1:07:04have to use 53 foot tractor trailers to

1:07:07deliver things across country. So, as

1:07:08you scale up on things, you're going to

1:07:10need larger vehicles to deliver those

1:07:12things. And so if the demand is there,

1:07:16is it wrong to assume that the drones

1:07:18may get larger and the volume may get

1:07:20louder and things may change and are not

1:07:22part of this process and we and the

1:07:25residents won't have any knowledge that

1:07:26those types of improvements are actually

1:07:29happening.

1:07:30>> Well, we're we're very transparent as a

1:07:32company and so if we're making wholesale

1:07:36changes like that to an entire program,

1:07:38>> you know, I'm saying I'm saying

1:07:39>> then we we got the Mark 30, right, which

1:07:41carries 5 pounds.

1:07:42>> Sure. If for some reason you say, I

1:07:44think we can up that to give a a 10

1:07:46pound payload maximum for our customers,

1:07:49but the Mark III can't do that. We have

1:07:51to do the Mark 35. The Mark 35 is

1:07:53larger. And while the Mark III has 60

1:07:55decel limit, the Mark 35 has a 80 decel

1:07:59limit. Because it's so much larger, it

1:08:00needs bigger propellers. It's going to

1:08:02make more noise. It's not that you guys

1:08:04are going backwards. It's that you're

1:08:06>> increasing the size of the the vehicle.

1:08:08to to us scaling would be

1:08:11>> being able to deliver to more customers

1:08:13across our network

1:08:14>> than we're currently delivering to.

1:08:16>> But that doesn't answer my question.

1:08:17>> When when I think about drones, I'm

1:08:19going to get there. When when I think

1:08:21about the drone program in general,

1:08:23we're looking at dozens of sites across

1:08:25the country. We have many of them in

1:08:27operations today. The more of those we

1:08:29have, then we've completed the the hub

1:08:31and the spoke model we can deliver to

1:08:33those customers.

1:08:34Hypothetically, if we're saying, could

1:08:36there be a new design in the future

1:08:38that's different and sounds different

1:08:40and looks different? Sure. But there's a

1:08:42process that we would have to start over

1:08:45with through the FAA if we design a new

1:08:48drone to be cleared to offer drone

1:08:52delivery to our customers. So we would

1:08:54have to go through the FAA for

1:08:56>> So through that FBA filing, would you

1:08:58have to go back before the planning

1:08:59board?

1:09:00>> If we were to change the impacts of the

1:09:02land use and zoning component of that?

1:09:05Absolutely.

1:09:06>> So changing the size of the drone, would

1:09:08that change the land use component of

1:09:10>> I wouldn't say that would No, that's not

1:09:12a land use.

1:09:12>> So if you change the size of the drone,

1:09:14you wouldn't have to come back before

1:09:15the planning board. And so residents or

1:09:17community members just have to basically

1:09:19pay attention to the FAA filings to see

1:09:20if that ever happens and to see if these

1:09:22larger drones show up in their sky.

1:09:25>> That's fair.

1:09:26>> What I'm getting at, there's no way that

1:09:27residents are going to know that this

1:09:29happens that you scale up,

1:09:31>> right?

1:09:32>> Okay. Our our plan is to scale um this

1:09:35business. That's that's why we're here

1:09:37tonight.

1:09:38What the way we do this also like our

1:09:41entire fulfillment network is built on

1:09:45scaling each one of those programs. This

1:09:47is just one of those programs. So when

1:09:50we built our new like this facility

1:09:52where we're planning to um that that is

1:09:56under your remitt this evening. This is

1:09:58a same day delivery station in Westboro.

1:10:03We didn't have same day delivery

1:10:05stations in Westboro 10 years ago.

1:10:09So we didn't know that that was going to

1:10:11be the next iteration for our customers.

1:10:16Co showed us how to grow and scale as a

1:10:20company almost overnight. And so at that

1:10:23point we decided, okay, we need to

1:10:27massively scale a much different program

1:10:29that we weren't planning on. And we're

1:10:30going to have to go talk to a lot of

1:10:32planning boards and a lot of select

1:10:34boards and a lot of city councils and

1:10:36boards of supervisors around the country

1:10:38to make this work. And they're

1:10:40different. This is onetenth the size of

1:10:44some of our existing fulfillment centers

1:10:46because we have many fewer products, but

1:10:48we're doing many more deliveries out of

1:10:52this type of a fulfillment center

1:10:53because they want things the same day.

1:10:56So, it was different. It was new. It was

1:10:57innovative. It's a change. And we are

1:11:00very forthright about that change

1:11:02because obviously a land use component

1:11:05here. Should we go to some other

1:11:08iteration that would require review? Of

1:11:12course we're going to come back. If it

1:11:13didn't require review,

1:11:16we're still we have a relationship here

1:11:19with the town, right? Like I know Fred,

1:11:22the the planning director, we know the

1:11:23town manager. Jonathan lives right here

1:11:26in Massachusetts and he works economic

1:11:29development efforts across the state of

1:11:32Massachusetts. We're going to be

1:11:33transparent about those things. I get

1:11:36that. My point is if we approve a site

1:11:39plan, we're approving a site plan with

1:11:41the sale being it's a Mark 30, 5B max,

1:11:4560 dB,

1:11:47no one is going to know that that

1:11:49changes. And so in two years we could

1:11:52see larger larger drones above us. No

1:11:56one would know why. And then if we say,

1:11:58"Hey, they're getting too loud. Do

1:12:00something about it." You can say, "FA

1:12:02approved them. We can't really do much."

1:12:04So then the town is stuck with something

1:12:06that we approved based on some

1:12:09information that we had, not not really

1:12:12understanding or not knowing that things

1:12:13may get bigger and what those impacts

1:12:16would be in the future. And now we have

1:12:18no review process or no notification, no

1:12:22comments, nothing about that when that

1:12:24happens. That's my concern. And I I

1:12:28don't think anything you and it's not

1:12:30against you. I don't think anything you

1:12:31said answered that question aside from

1:12:33Yeah, we're not going to know because

1:12:35these changes aren't going to be land

1:12:36use based. If you were to

1:12:39>> I don't know if they would. I don't know

1:12:40if they would or not. wouldn't because I

1:12:41mean if you're changing the size of the

1:12:42drone to to carry larger larger

1:12:45payloads, you're not going to change

1:12:47>> the land use aspects.

1:12:48>> I I would have to change the design and

1:12:51layout of this to accommodate a

1:12:53different type of drone.

1:12:54>> But you're saying you you have

1:12:56iterations. You may um you know have

1:12:59technology that that works. Maybe you

1:13:01don't have to change that. Maybe you can

1:13:02use those same landing sites for larger

1:13:05drones. I I don't know. I hear what

1:13:07you're saying. I'm just trying to say

1:13:08it's it's a concern that things could

1:13:10change in the future and we may not know

1:13:12that things change and we're agreeing to

1:13:14something and that might not be what we

1:13:15get in five years.

1:13:19>> Thank you.

1:13:21>> All right. Um if there's no more

1:13:23question

1:13:24>> I have a comment.

1:13:24>> Sure.

1:13:25>> Um I guess for the board something to

1:13:27think about. So I know um when this went

1:13:31in front of the select board the

1:13:32discussion around like airports was

1:13:36discussed and we it was deemed that this

1:13:38doesn't qualify um as an airport. I do

1:13:41think almost similar to some of the

1:13:44conversations that are happening around

1:13:45data centers and like thinking about

1:13:47future thinking about um uh planning. I

1:13:51think, you know, today it's Amazon, but

1:13:54I would imagine that, you know,

1:13:56especially since a lot of these are

1:13:57pharmacy items, like CVS might have

1:14:00something or UPS or FedEx and then we

1:14:03have multiple companies having drones,

1:14:07right, that are technically allowed

1:14:09um flying over the town. I I think it's

1:14:12worth discussing and considering having

1:14:15a bylaw that's more specific to um to

1:14:19delivery drones in town.

1:14:22>> Good point.

1:14:22>> That's all.

1:14:25>> If there are no other questions from the

1:14:27board, this is a public hearing. Is

1:14:29there anyone in the audience who'd like

1:14:31to comment on this or ask a question?

1:14:33Um, and I would like to point out that

1:14:35their main um,

1:14:39presentation to the town is on the 23rd.

1:14:44So, be aware of that that um, you may

1:14:47get your questions answered um, better

1:14:52at that particular time. Though, we're

1:14:54very happy to listen to any questions

1:14:56tonight. Is there anyone here who would

1:14:58like to make a comment on this or have a

1:15:00question?

1:15:02Yes, ma'am. And if you could just give

1:15:04your name and your address.

1:15:09>> Yep. And hopefully that works. Try it

1:15:12and see.

1:15:15>> I don't think it's there's a switch.

1:15:22>> Okay. Sorry.

1:15:22>> There you go.

1:15:26>> I'm Jen Parent. Good live at 22 Flanner.

1:15:29So, I just have a few comments that I

1:15:31want the board to hear.

1:15:32>> Sure.

1:15:33>> Um, so I'm very well aware of this whole

1:15:36plan. Um, and I'm strongly against um,

1:15:40Amazon being here and the Prime

1:15:42Delivery. I'm a parent. I'm a teacher

1:15:46and um, this is not something I think we

1:15:49want in our town for several reasons.

1:15:52So, um, the risk does not match the

1:15:55want. We do not need 30 minute

1:15:57deliveries for any reason.

1:15:59I don't even know why we're questioning

1:16:01this. Um, so I'm requesting that the

1:16:05town ask a lot of questions, speak to

1:16:07the residents, and make sure the

1:16:09residents are all aware because I don't

1:16:10think a lot of people are aware of

1:16:12what's happening. Um, I also just wanted

1:16:14to bring up I did a lot of research

1:16:16while I was sitting and listening

1:16:19and um there are quite a few accidents

1:16:23that have happened um that you know I

1:16:27even looked it up before you mentioned

1:16:28it. Things like hitting internet cables

1:16:31and um electrical wires um and apartment

1:16:36buildings.

1:16:38Additionally, um I found this

1:16:41interesting that um there was a um

1:16:47recent this was like in the last 6 days

1:16:50um

1:16:52in Louisiana, there's been a lot of

1:16:56noise complaints happening in

1:16:57neighborhoods. The residents said that

1:17:01the first thing I thought was it was

1:17:02UFO. Um, and they said that, you know,

1:17:06initially I didn't think much of it, but

1:17:07now that I'm in the thought process of

1:17:10it, um, they're here all the time and

1:17:14what does this look like for the future,

1:17:16is mobile market going to start using

1:17:17them, Target, etc. Um, it's just a

1:17:21opinion of like the residents in

1:17:23Louisiana and what they're kind of going

1:17:25through. They're definitely loud enough

1:17:27for us to hear in the house over the AC

1:17:29and over the sound machine and whatever

1:17:32else is going on. You can hear it inside

1:17:34as well. Um, residents in the area

1:17:37estimated seeing a drone roughly every

1:17:38two to five minutes. Um, I know for

1:17:42myself when I see drones, I find it

1:17:44really annoying. Um, it's not something

1:17:46I want to see going across my skies all

1:17:48the time. So that's all. Um, actually I

1:17:52had one more comment. Just because we

1:17:55can do something or at this point in our

1:17:58human history with technology, just

1:17:59because we can do it doesn't mean we

1:18:01should do it. And I think that people

1:18:03need to really start standing up to the

1:18:06tech industries and look at what we

1:18:08value and what they value. Thank you.

1:18:11Thank you.

1:18:13Anyone else who'd like to speak to this?

1:18:17Yes, sir.

1:18:24>> I appreciate you being here. Brandon

1:18:26Height. I live on North Street. Um, I

1:18:28also have a son that lives on Bradish

1:18:29Lane, which is literally like right

1:18:31across the field from where the Amazon's

1:18:34proposed site will be. And I understand

1:18:36you're saying that the FAA can't

1:18:38determine flight path until everything's

1:18:40approved. But I just want to know from

1:18:43the board like what asurances we can get

1:18:46to make sure that if the town has an

1:18:47issue going forward, we need to be able

1:18:50to lock this down. I mean to the point

1:18:51of up to and including closure if they

1:18:54are not agreeing to changing flight path

1:18:56whether it's over farms or over school

1:18:58sites or whatever it is and it's you

1:19:00know you're spot on when you're saying

1:19:03you know the technology today is not

1:19:04what it's going to be heck two years

1:19:06from now and the ability to have a lot

1:19:10heavier bigger drones the FAA is not

1:19:13taking that into consideration when it

1:19:15says a flight path flight path is done

1:19:17so a couple things and again I

1:19:20appreciate the

1:19:21But uh just being able to I I don't know

1:19:25like can you guys just create like a

1:19:26sort of some some sort of simulation

1:19:28that actually gives an experience. I

1:19:30don't I I realize you're saying we can't

1:19:31fly you one up right now because we

1:19:32don't have the the approvals. I find it

1:19:35very hard to believe that you can't give

1:19:36me something to put on an Oculus that I

1:19:38could actually experience what it's

1:19:40going to be for my son or anybody else

1:19:41in the Westboro neighborhood uh that he

1:19:44lives in about the constant up to 1,000

1:19:47flights a day. that's a thousand feet

1:19:51from his house. I can't imagine it's

1:19:53going to be that quiet or that, you

1:19:55know, maybe if he's inside, sure. But if

1:19:56he steps outside or opens up a window,

1:19:58it's going to be a problem. So, that's

1:20:01all I got to say. Thanks.

1:20:02>> Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd

1:20:04like to comment on this project this

1:20:06time? Yes, sir.

1:20:16>> I think drones are cool. I own a couple.

1:20:18Um, and I would appreciate faster

1:20:22delivery time from Amazon. Um, but uh,

1:20:24my question is, do these drones have

1:20:26>> You just need your name in.

1:20:27>> Sure. Three long drive. Thank you,

1:20:29Antonabaya. I just wanted to ask from a

1:20:31privacy perspective, pretty sure these

1:20:33drones will have cameras on them. So if

1:20:36say my kids are outside, maybe in a

1:20:38yard, maybe they're not wearing clothes,

1:20:40that sort of thing, and other residents.

1:20:43What does the camera

1:20:45take pictures of? and how can we ensure

1:20:47that the you know where I'm going with

1:20:49that. Thanks.

1:20:52>> I think you did speak to that before.

1:20:55>> I did. Should I respond?

1:20:56>> Yeah, if you on that particular issue

1:20:58because I believe

1:21:00>> that was discussed earlier.

1:21:01>> It was. Yeah. Our our cameras are on

1:21:03board to make sure that we can navigate

1:21:05the sky properly and effectively and

1:21:08safely and make a delivery safely. So if

1:21:11your child is in the delivery zone where

1:21:14you have identified to receive that

1:21:15package within the hour, the drone would

1:21:18spot and detect that there is an object

1:21:21in that delivery zone and would abort

1:21:23the mission and go back. And again, any

1:21:25data collected from that is completely

1:21:28encrypted and goes into a vault and

1:21:30would not be stored, shared, looked at

1:21:34by any flight controller. There is no

1:21:36monitoring process. It's not taking

1:21:38images of your backyard. it is only

1:21:40making sure that that particular zone is

1:21:42clear as it's making the delivery. And

1:21:46then I want to go to the Oculus comment.

1:21:48Forgot who mentioned that's a great

1:21:50idea. And so I just want to make sure

1:21:53that this is why we host community

1:21:56engagement meetings too. We get a lot of

1:21:58good feedback and ideas from our

1:22:00customers that often turn into real

1:22:04tangible products. So I'm taking note of

1:22:07that. Thank you.

1:22:09There anyone else who has a question?

1:22:10Yes, ma'am.

1:22:18Thank you. Um Chris

1:22:22Christine Farmer 3 Joan drive. First of

1:22:24all, thank you for that excellent

1:22:25presentation. You did a wonderful job.

1:22:28Planning board. Excellent questions. I

1:22:30could applaud all of your concerns and I

1:22:33I encourage you and implore you to

1:22:35continue to ask those questions. I grew

1:22:37up in Winthrop, Massachusetts. We

1:22:40harbored Logan Airport, the prison and

1:22:44um the sewage treatment plant. So I

1:22:46understand what harboring like major

1:22:49community efforts are. So I just want to

1:22:53advise and and really just say um you

1:22:57open the door to this and more will

1:23:00come. So I implore that you continue to

1:23:03consider the sound and the visuals. I

1:23:06love to walk. We love the nature. We are

1:23:10not going to have that. If you have 600

1:23:13um deliveries in 12 hours, I think

1:23:17that's a delivery every every minute.

1:23:21So, it's that's a lot of 5 foot 83

1:23:26pound. We're talking about the size of a

1:23:28dog. That's a that's a big that's a big

1:23:32device that we're seeing propelled up

1:23:35into the sky. So, it's just a futuristic

1:23:38goal of Amazon to deliver um something

1:23:42that I think this lady had mentioned

1:23:45earlier that it's is it really worth the

1:23:47risk? Is it really what we want in this

1:23:50town? Um I that's a that's something

1:23:53that we have to discern and talk to our

1:23:55people, but I continue to applaud you

1:23:57and I really um thank you. I I'm a big

1:24:00Amazon customer, but I just don't want

1:24:02you in the skies, not near me. I've done

1:24:04that. That's why I moved here. Thank

1:24:07you.

1:24:08>> Thank you.

1:24:09>> Is there anyone else you'd like to

1:24:10comment in on this project at this

1:24:12moment?

1:24:18>> Uh good evening, Kevin Barry, 8 Indian

1:24:20Pound Road. Thank you again for the

1:24:21presentation. Second time I've seen it.

1:24:23Um couple quick comments or questions.

1:24:25Um some really good comments and

1:24:26questions by the board. So thank you for

1:24:28paying attention to this. My first

1:24:30question is one of your slides talked

1:24:31about other stakeholders. Um, on one of

1:24:34the slides I counted close to 15 towns

1:24:36with a seven and a half mile radius. Are

1:24:38they invited? Are they part of the

1:24:40process as far as letting them know what

1:24:42we're doing? I know Northboro I think

1:24:44select board already had a conversation

1:24:45about it. So is our town andor you

1:24:48including them in this presentation at

1:24:50the Hilton I guess next week.

1:24:53I guess quick question. Yes. No. Anybody

1:24:55>> that the question is for you

1:24:57>> procedurally? Do I answer him now or

1:24:59wait for his comments? Okay.

1:24:59>> Yeah, we can have a conversation.

1:25:01>> Yeah. So, um, sorry, each town is very

1:25:03different with the the protocol, so I

1:25:05want to make sure I'm following it. Um,

1:25:07yes. So,

1:25:10they have been invited to the meeting

1:25:12next week, but we have a separate

1:25:14meeting with town managers across the

1:25:16entire delivery radius that is happening

1:25:19separate from that event.

1:25:21>> Perfect. Um, the other thing I uh

1:25:24comment would be you've got Cold Harbor

1:25:26Brewery, which is your direct um uh

1:25:29neighbor, if you will. So they're right

1:25:30in with the 500 foot maximum noise level

1:25:34which is which is what 65 decel levels

1:25:36or whatever. Um concerned about them you

1:25:39know think of how many flights they're

1:25:40going to be and if you're a you know

1:25:42business andor you've got your guests

1:25:44that are there. It's going to be

1:25:45extremely loud noise I would imagine

1:25:47continuously right in his backyard or

1:25:49right in his front yard. Um the other

1:25:51thing is the generator. You spoke about

1:25:52the generator is that constantly going

1:25:54throughout the day. Obviously that has

1:25:55adds to the decibel levels and

1:25:57considering that it's right next to his

1:25:59fence and within the 500 foot radius. Is

1:26:02that a concern anybody's brought to

1:26:03anybody's attention?

1:26:05>> Um

1:26:06just a minute. Is that the end of

1:26:09essentially? Okay, fine. Um

1:26:13All right. the questions actually need

1:26:15to be asked through the board and um if

1:26:18you could go ahead and answer the

1:26:20question, but I just want to be careful

1:26:22that we're not a lot of back and forth

1:26:23at this time.

1:26:24>> Okay. I just then for you just as a

1:26:26concern that's all I have is generator

1:26:28that's been brought up. They're pretty

1:26:30substantially noise. We talked about

1:26:31that at the or that's been brought up at

1:26:33the RECCC and the generator that's in

1:26:35people's backyards on Philip Street. So,

1:26:38>> I think that actually is a um answer

1:26:41that you might want to give at the

1:26:42public forum next week. I mean, we're

1:26:45trying to get questions that you will

1:26:48then be able to um bring to the public

1:26:51forum to answer. If you got a short

1:26:54answer to this one, fine. But I think

1:26:56we're trying to just gather information

1:26:58at the moment.

1:26:59>> That is what we're trying to do.

1:27:00>> Thank you.

1:27:01>> I appreciate that. And I I will respond

1:27:03to the generator. We're in an industrial

1:27:05area. So the we've been doing thousands

1:27:08of deliveries out of this building. We

1:27:10located here because it's zoned for

1:27:12industrial fulfillment. We have trucks

1:27:15that are coming in and out of the

1:27:16facility all day. If one of those trucks

1:27:18is backing up, that's louder than a

1:27:21drone. So when those reverse beeps go

1:27:24on, that's louder than a drone. A

1:27:26generator operates at many industrial

1:27:28facilities, and this one is not on the

1:27:29fence line. It's in the middle of our

1:27:32primary drone delivery center that's on

1:27:34our property in our parking lot. It's

1:27:36not on the perimeter of the of the site

1:27:38at all. Um it won't be operating

1:27:40continuously. We're um delivering from

1:27:44civil twilight to hours about sunrise to

1:27:47sunset. Um it requires a permit through

1:27:51the township and so we will pull that

1:27:53separate permit for the generator as

1:27:55well.

1:27:56>> Thank you. Um, is there anyone else in

1:27:58the audience you'd like to comment?

1:28:02If not, um, I we will continue this

1:28:04matter till our next meeting, but also

1:28:06I'd like to point out to everyone that,

1:28:09uh, we as a planning board, um, I'm

1:28:11certainly planning to attend on the

1:28:1423rd, and I think most of our planning

1:28:16board is. Um, we are just in the in the

1:28:20gathering of information stage at this

1:28:22particular time. And so if people have

1:28:25questions or comments, please feel free

1:28:27to send them by email or call the build,

1:28:30call the uh planning department or send

1:28:33something in there because we're really

1:28:36interested to hear from the community on

1:28:38this project.

1:28:40>> Hazel, can I just also

1:28:41>> kind of describe to the the people here

1:28:44what our jurisdiction is because I don't

1:28:47want residents to think that we have

1:28:49like this all-encompassing ability to

1:28:51say no. Um, we're reviewing this based

1:28:55on the design of the site and basically

1:28:58the design of the site is what is in the

1:29:00property of Amazon and as long as it's

1:29:02safe, uh, people can drive and walk

1:29:05around it and that kind of stuff, we are

1:29:07almost required to approve it. The sound

1:29:10of drones elsewhere in town, we do not

1:29:13have control over as a planning board.

1:29:16That's an FAA thing um, or under some

1:29:19other ordinance. So we cannot control

1:29:21through site plan once the drones leave

1:29:24the site. That is not part of site plan.

1:29:27Um so we will have to look at the site

1:29:29design, the circulation of the site, the

1:29:32landscaping on the site, the um

1:29:34relationship of the buildings and the

1:29:36launch stuff, but we really cannot

1:29:38regulate the drones themselves. So I

1:29:40just want everyone to be clear about

1:29:42that.

1:29:46>> All right. Um I think we'll continue

1:29:47this matter to our next meeting. Uh,

1:29:49could I have a motion to continue this

1:29:51matter until our next meeting, which is

1:29:53October

1:29:557th, maybe?

1:29:56>> Sixth. Sixth. Sixth.

1:29:59>> October 6th.

1:30:02>> So moved.

1:30:03>> Is there a second?

1:30:04>> Second.

1:30:05>> All in favor?

1:30:07>> Thank you very much for your

1:30:08presentation.

1:30:09>> Thank you for your time. Appreciate you.

1:30:25got it elsewhere.

1:30:29All right. The next matter tonight is

1:30:33where's the agenda

1:30:38is is

1:30:39Silver Hollow Estates Homeowners

1:30:41Association

1:30:43to request the modification of form C

1:30:45definitive of a subdivision approval. In

1:30:48accordance with the provisions of MGL

1:30:51chapter 48 and the subdivision rules and

1:30:53regulations of the town of Westboro, the

1:30:56Westboro Planning Board will hold a

1:30:57public hearing on Tuesday, September

1:31:0015th at 6:30 p.m. on application record

1:31:03number 26-02446

1:31:08to consider the application for approval

1:31:10of the AD of the amendment to the

1:31:13definitive subdivision plan for Silver

1:31:16Hollow subdivision. The proposed project

1:31:19will provide a new 8 inch 440 foot long

1:31:24gravity sewer main to bypass the shared

1:31:28septic system and connect to the

1:31:30municipal sanitary sewer system and

1:31:33abandon the shared septic system for 20

1:31:37residential homes in the Silver Hollow

1:31:40Estates development. The public hearing

1:31:43will be held in the great hall of the

1:31:44for municipal building, 45 West Main

1:31:47Street, Westboro, Mass. Please see the

1:31:50calendar on the town of Westboro

1:31:52homepage posted 48 hours prior to the

1:31:55public hearing for additional

1:31:56information. To access the application

1:31:59and any submitted documents, please go

1:32:03to our online permitting system, Permit

1:32:06Pro, and search the above reference

1:32:08record number. Records are also

1:32:10available for review in the Westboro

1:32:12Planning Board office at 45 West Main

1:32:15Street, Westboro Mass during regular

1:32:17public, regular business hours. Persons

1:32:21unable to attend may submit comments in

1:32:24writing to the Westboro Planning Board

1:32:26in advance of the public hearing. This

1:32:29was noticed in the in Worcester Telegram

1:32:31and Gazette on 8:24 and 8:31.

1:32:36Just for clarification, essentially what

1:32:38this application is for is to take the

1:32:4320 houses

1:32:45in this subdivision

1:32:48and add them to the town sewer, taking

1:32:52them off their own septic system. It is

1:32:55a major change to the subdivision

1:32:58approval which they received for this

1:33:01original

1:33:03project. Is there someone here for this

1:33:06matter?

1:33:07>> Yes,

1:33:09>> Barry.

1:33:11>> Barry Aerson with WDA Design Group on

1:33:15behalf of Silver Hollow Estates and

1:33:17their homeowners association and the uh

1:33:20current owners. Um, as you just uh

1:33:25mentioned, they this development, Silver

1:33:28Hollow Estates, had 26 homes approved

1:33:31under the initial subdivision.

1:33:33They were allocated six to connect up to

1:33:37the existing municipality sewer system

1:33:39up on the uh

1:33:42top up in here.

1:33:46The rest of the 20 homes were collected

1:33:49by gravity sewer

1:33:51and come to a on-site shared wastewater

1:33:54treatment plant

1:33:56uh down in the corner over here. And

1:33:59through the planning, they also had put

1:34:02in some easements uh along the property.

1:34:06One of the easements came from the back

1:34:09of the property down here to an existing

1:34:12sewer down in this location.

1:34:17Since the uh development has been fully

1:34:20developed, they've been having some

1:34:22issues with the uh recirculating sand

1:34:25filter. the properties are within a

1:34:28nitrifying area zone. So they have a

1:34:32limit of uh certain uh nitrates that

1:34:36they can discharge. It has been slowly

1:34:39creeping up over the last couple of

1:34:41years and uh most recently uh it's

1:34:45gotten pretty high and it's because of

1:34:48the recirculating sand filter that is

1:34:52located here.

1:34:54Sorry.

1:34:56The box right there that I'm

1:34:58highlighting

1:35:00uh that recirculates the waste water uh

1:35:04back and forth, filters through some

1:35:06sand and some media and then a portion

1:35:09of it is then discharged out into the

1:35:12left hand uh side of the field. Barry

1:35:15was

1:35:17you're saying that there's a problem as

1:35:19far as the nitrogen

1:35:21re but that had something to do with the

1:35:24fact that there seemed to be a lack of

1:35:26maintenance that was done to deal with

1:35:28that problem which is what brought this

1:35:30kind of thing on. I am unaware of the uh

1:35:34lack of maintenance and different stuff.

1:35:36I know they have uh a maintenance

1:35:38company that's been there monitoring it

1:35:41uh regularly per their requirements.

1:35:44Um, but beyond that, I'm not sure of

1:35:49that rationale of why it's uh uh is it

1:35:52lack of maintenance? Is it um

1:35:56uh just the the system itself? I've

1:35:58heard both things that a few things

1:36:00weren't installed in the system. Um

1:36:04such as some shielding over some pipes,

1:36:06so the water has been squirting up and

1:36:09creating little fountains. Um,

1:36:12>> so that was a problem with the

1:36:13construction of the system which

1:36:16>> correct

1:36:16>> had to do with the development has

1:36:18nothing to do with the town.

1:36:20>> Correct. And nope. It's uh during the

1:36:23construction end of it some things were

1:36:25missed. Uh there's been a question of

1:36:27whether the filter media was appropriate

1:36:30for the sand filter. Um and then you've

1:36:35got on top of it some uh mulch that

1:36:38probably should be uh maintained.

1:36:41um that's getting I understand and hear

1:36:44hearsay on is that it's getting into

1:36:46some of the uh filter pipes and causing

1:36:49some backups. I know they're working on

1:36:51it as we speak. Could it be quicker?

1:36:54Maybe. But I think our ultimate goal

1:36:56here would be to uh since the town has

1:36:59some capacity now that the uh

1:37:04um moratorum was lifted and they got the

1:37:06ability the long-term and easiest

1:37:12shouldn't say easiest but uh for the

1:37:15long-term

1:37:17uh and probably the best thing for this

1:37:19development would be to connect up to

1:37:21the um existing municipality.

1:37:25Um the com

1:37:27multitude of times they would need to

1:37:31maintain or redo this filter.

1:37:35It's very large.

1:37:38There would be a lot of trucks and

1:37:40impacts to the neighborhood and down the

1:37:42streets to remove and replace that media

1:37:48um at a pretty good expense as well. So,

1:37:52it's the owners and the HOA would really

1:37:55like to get off of this

1:37:59potential

1:38:00issue that could keep coming up. There's

1:38:03no guarantees that uh if you rebuild it

1:38:06that you're going to have a 50-year life

1:38:09cycle like they uh initially planned.

1:38:13You may get a few more years if you

1:38:15build it correctly, but that's

1:38:18>> But one of the reasons that this this um

1:38:22subdivision was approved as a um

1:38:26the type of subdivision it was is

1:38:28because it was not going to take up um a

1:38:32significant amount of what was available

1:38:34through the town as far as sewer for

1:38:37subdivisions or single family homes. And

1:38:41the um whole purpose of this subdivision

1:38:45was that the six houses which are on the

1:38:49presently on town sewer were the six

1:38:52that were um allotted.

1:38:55>> They currently had a service connection

1:38:57allocated to them.

1:38:58>> That's correct. Um I mean I think the

1:39:01thing is that um just because there is

1:39:05capacity in the town to provide sewer to

1:39:10other places, we have to be careful as a

1:39:15planning board and as a town to make

1:39:18sure that the allocation is available

1:39:22and some sort of planning ahead in this.

1:39:25And this is one of those situations

1:39:27where um the septic system that was put

1:39:31in, if it was not put in correctly, that

1:39:34that is not an excuse for having to then

1:39:39take up town sewer. I mean, it it it

1:39:42concerns me about setting a precedent

1:39:45where if you've approved a site plan and

1:39:50and decided that X number of houses are

1:39:53going to have their own sewer system to

1:39:56then come back later and want to take up

1:39:59town sewer. Um, I'm concerned about

1:40:03other subdivisions in town feeling free

1:40:06that they can do the same kind of thing.

1:40:07and where are we going to be as a

1:40:09planning board on this kind of thing or

1:40:11as a planning within our community. We

1:40:14have a very limited amount of town sewer

1:40:18available. We have a number of projects

1:40:21recently which have been approved for

1:40:24town sewer. Um you know why is this a

1:40:30special case to change make a major

1:40:33change in a site plan or subdivision?

1:40:37um in this particular situation. So I

1:40:40have a lot of problems with this.

1:40:46Uh

1:40:49I get what you're saying. Um

1:40:53there is uh

1:40:57uh

1:41:01it was approved

1:41:04with

1:41:05the understanding that they would have

1:41:08this nitrifying

1:41:11filter in there and that it should last

1:41:14a while. It hasn't. Uh I was not there

1:41:18during the uh initial approval of this

1:41:22development.

1:41:23Um it shocks me that you had the

1:41:28availability at the time to connect

1:41:33to a municipality especially where it

1:41:36was in a zone 2 nitrifying

1:41:40area.

1:41:42Um

1:41:43and it's my understanding that the uh

1:41:48town while it wasn't under a moratorum

1:41:51at the time

1:41:52>> was

1:41:54>> I believe the powers to be knew that

1:41:57they had limited capacity at the time

1:42:00and then they went into a moratorum and

1:42:03have since come out of that. Um this has

1:42:08been discussed with through the DPW and

1:42:12uh engineer department and they do say

1:42:16that there is sufficient capacity in

1:42:18there to allow this but I get the point

1:42:21that they're

1:42:22>> just because there's sufficient capacity

1:42:25it's because sufficient capacity to

1:42:27build a new subdivision you know that

1:42:29wants sewer also I mean you know they're

1:42:33they're just answering the question is

1:42:36>> does this does the system at this time

1:42:38have capacity for an additional 20

1:42:41houses. Um I think the percentage

1:42:44actually is quite high of the amount of

1:42:48sewer it's going to take on what is left

1:42:50at the moment anyway. And that's why I'm

1:42:54concerned about

1:42:56um

1:42:57taking a subdivision which had agreed to

1:43:00have their own septic system and

1:43:04they are now coming and saying no

1:43:06they've decided they want to hook up

1:43:08with town sewer.

1:43:13>> Remind me when was this when was this

1:43:14built?

1:43:15>> 2016 was when the original subdivision

1:43:18site plan was approved.

1:43:20>> Wasn't that before the mortar? It was

1:43:22before the moratorum.

1:43:23>> But then when was construction

1:43:25completed?

1:43:27>> I mean I can't remember.

1:43:28>> When was construction completed?

1:43:30>> Two years ago.

1:43:32>> So the septic system failed in two

1:43:33years.

1:43:35>> Uh it's been active before that because

1:43:38of the start of the development, but

1:43:41essentially it's was built out and

1:43:44operating for two years. When did when

1:43:47did the developer turn over the HOA to

1:43:51the current owners?

1:43:52>> I don't think he has.

1:43:54>> Excuse me.

1:43:55>> Um Michael Lang is with the uh the owner

1:43:59and owners group.

1:44:00>> Right. So I'm Michael Lang. Um I work

1:44:02for Jos LLC which was the developer. Uh

1:44:05Jos LLC is still the trustee in charge

1:44:07of the HOA. It has not been turned over

1:44:09to

1:44:10>> turned over.

1:44:11>> Is there in dispute?

1:44:12>> Yeah.

1:44:14Um I just want to clarify the system is

1:44:17not failing due to a lack of

1:44:19maintenance. It's been maintained

1:44:20throughout the whole period of

1:44:22operation. Um we have the logs, the

1:44:24board of health has the logs. It's

1:44:26failing due to um seems to be the

1:44:29materials used or materials not used.

1:44:31We're still trying to figure out exactly

1:44:34who's responsible, but there's a lot of

1:44:35fingerpointing. Um we're in a situation

1:44:38right now where a decision needs to be

1:44:39made right away. Uh we just left the

1:44:41board of health meeting. We have their

1:44:43recommendation to convert to town sewer.

1:44:45Um I was always told that this project

1:44:48was originally approved during the

1:44:49moratorium and that's why we didn't get

1:44:51the 26 homes on the town sewer.

1:44:54>> No, it was approved prior to the port

1:44:56more

1:44:57>> prior to that. Yeah. Okay.

1:44:58>> Right. and they made the decision at

1:45:00that time

1:45:01>> and that was one of the things that I

1:45:04mean the planning board has encouraged

1:45:06situations where because we are trying

1:45:08to portion sewer um throughout the

1:45:11community and we need to look you know

1:45:1410 or 15 years down the road at this

1:45:16point and so one of the reasons that

1:45:20this was approved as the type of

1:45:22subdivision it was was that it was not

1:45:24going to use totally town sewer.

1:45:28Okay. Um I I do also understand that it

1:45:31when it was approved, there was a

1:45:33contingency plan put in place in case

1:45:35there was a situation where it failed um

1:45:38that it could convert or couldn't

1:45:40connect to town sewer and that is

1:45:42through the easement in the back of the

1:45:43subdivision.

1:45:44>> I have no knowledge of that.

1:45:46>> It's not part of

1:45:48>> that not part of the site plan approval.

1:45:50>> Yeah. So I think the easement would just

1:45:51be for future connections or emergency

1:45:54maintenance if necessary, but not as a

1:45:57precursor to connection. It's more of if

1:46:00that was going to be the case, you think

1:46:01it would be a condition and the decision

1:46:03rather than an easement on a plan.

1:46:04>> There's nothing in there,

1:46:05>> right? So um in the situation that we're

1:46:08at now, the whole filter needs to be

1:46:10rebuilt. That's what we're being told.

1:46:12Um there's no quick fix. Uh our experts

1:46:15told us it's a three to six month

1:46:16process um to do the construction,

1:46:20rebuild uh to remove what's there,

1:46:22rebuild it, and then let the proper

1:46:24biomass grow and organisms to lower the

1:46:27nitrogen levels.

1:46:29>> No, but the thing is it can be fixed. I

1:46:31mean, we're not in a situation where you

1:46:34are able to fix it,

1:46:35>> right? But if we're afraid if we fix it

1:46:37with the same material, we're going to

1:46:38have the same situation

1:46:41couple years down the road.

1:46:42>> Yeah. That's not

1:46:43>> why would you use the same material if

1:46:45you've identified that

1:46:46>> material that's how it was approved and

1:46:48that's how it was that's how it was

1:46:49designed and approved. Uh the whole

1:46:51system was it went through a rigorous

1:46:53approval process. It was signed off on

1:46:55put into use. Um and we're just having a

1:46:58major situation there with uh with

1:47:01what's h with

1:47:01>> Well, I know but it doesn't make sense

1:47:03to me if you say it was approved to be

1:47:05done that but it may not be working that

1:47:07way. Then why don't you change the

1:47:08system the way it's done? I mean, you

1:47:10can go back to the Department of Health

1:47:12and you can go back to the engineering

1:47:14department and engineer a new system

1:47:16that's going to work.

1:47:17>> Okay. Um, but we also have 20 homeowners

1:47:19that at this opport at this time they're

1:47:22kind of fed up with the septic system.

1:47:25>> But how long do you think it would take

1:47:26to put sewer in?

1:47:28>> Uh, much we're told much shorter than

1:47:30redesigning, rebuilding, and replacing

1:47:33the sand filter. John, can I ask what's

1:47:36the cost to connect to the sewer versus

1:47:39just replace the system that needs to be

1:47:41replaced?

1:47:42>> Uh, it's similar.

1:47:44>> So, we're talking similar costs on that.

1:47:48>> All right. And that includes all the

1:47:50work that would need to be done to put

1:47:52to do the connection with the town

1:47:54sewer.

1:47:55>> Yes. As well as

1:47:56>> plus the cost and fees to pay for

1:47:59connection.

1:48:00>> Right.

1:48:01>> So, they're similar costs is what you're

1:48:03telling me. And how long have you known

1:48:06this was an issue?

1:48:08>> Um, we started noticing in I believe

1:48:12uh Q4 of 2025.

1:48:16We couldn't we couldn't do any

1:48:18exploratory excavation because the

1:48:19ground was frozen in uh first quarter of

1:48:222026 and it became an issue in May of

1:48:252026.

1:48:28We've been working on this since June of

1:48:292026

1:48:31and here we are.

1:48:37I don't I mean my feeling is if it's

1:48:39something that can be fixed then you

1:48:41need to go ahead and fix it. I mean I I

1:48:43I really am not happy or do I really

1:48:47want to give up 20 houses worth of sewer

1:48:51because of problems that it seems to me

1:48:54that the developer and has incurred

1:48:57themselves. I mean this is not it's not

1:48:59a town problem.

1:49:01>> Okay. Um

1:49:04but what is it being saved for the sewer

1:49:07capacity

1:49:08>> development? Potential future

1:49:09development.

1:49:10>> Okay. So the but the homeowners that are

1:49:13there now that have like it's been told

1:49:15that we have the you have the capacity

1:49:16to allow 20 homes to connect.

1:49:18>> As I said we have the capacity to allow

1:49:20I don't know. I mean I could I'm not

1:49:22sure what it is. I noticed that our our

1:49:26Chris Pay is here tonight. I could ask

1:49:28him how much we have left, but we have

1:49:30an infinite amount of sewer capacity

1:49:34available in this town

1:49:37at this particular time. We have other

1:49:39subdivisions coming along, other people

1:49:42looking for sewers, sewer capacity, and

1:49:45to give away 20 when we don't need to.

1:49:49And to make um a significant change in

1:49:53the site plan approval really concerns

1:49:55me when it is something that

1:49:57unfortunately has happened

1:50:02not due to a town's problem but due to

1:50:04what went on when it was developed by

1:50:06the developer. So 20 houses I had heard

1:50:11a figure and I don't know whether I'm

1:50:12correct is this was 20% of what

1:50:15remained. Um, I don't know Chris can

1:50:18speak to that, but it is there is a it

1:50:21does take up a significant amount of

1:50:24what's left as far as our sewers go.

1:50:32Um, so this system was approved during

1:50:34title uh under title five regulations

1:50:36and in title five regulations it says

1:50:38that the septic system isn't a permanent

1:50:40solution and if there's an opportunity

1:50:42to connect in the future it should be

1:50:44opted upon. Uh we are under the title

1:50:46five section. We are in a zone two for

1:50:49limited nitrogen levels. If you allow us

1:50:51to connect, you'll never have to worry

1:50:52about the nitrogen again in this area

1:50:54which is close to your town. Well,

1:50:56that's what we just discussed for an

1:50:58hour with the board of health.

1:51:00>> Right.

1:51:01>> And we have their support or I'm sorry,

1:51:03recommendation to connect to town sewer.

1:51:06I I think we need to have some

1:51:08conversations with town staff and and

1:51:09other boards and figure out what's

1:51:12>> I mean I'm I need some more information

1:51:14on this. As I said, I am certainly

1:51:17opposed to this.

1:51:18>> Hazel.

1:51:18>> Yeah,

1:51:20>> Ray's here from board of health.

1:51:22>> Okay. Um you're do you have a comment

1:51:24from the board of health?

1:51:26>> Uh yes. Uh Ray Gothia, a sanitarian for

1:51:28the health department. Um we just had a

1:51:31meeting. The reason we had a meeting is

1:51:34normally under title five regulations if

1:51:37the system is in failure then we

1:51:40recommend that the system be attached to

1:51:42town sewer if town sewer is available.

1:51:45The system has not had a title 5

1:51:47inspection recently since these issues

1:51:49have come up. But right now as of the

1:51:51testing of last week they are at 68.2 2

1:51:55mg per liter of nitrogen and we're over

1:51:58a town well and it's supposed to be 25

1:52:00or lower usually 19 to 25. So the board

1:52:04gave the recommendation to hook up as

1:52:07they're trying to save the town well. Uh

1:52:10they want to make sure no more nitrogen.

1:52:11If the system can be repaired and they

1:52:14can stop the nitrogen from going in then

1:52:16that's that's your decision. But we just

1:52:19they just the board members made the

1:52:21decision themselves because of the fact

1:52:24that it would be quicker to get the

1:52:26nitrogen out of the soil if they attach

1:52:28a town sewer than if they took 6 months

1:52:31to repair the system or whatever. Um

1:52:34right now we are they made a decision

1:52:36that they have to seal the they're going

1:52:39to use almost like a tight tank where

1:52:41they're going to have to close it so

1:52:42nothing goes to the field and to the

1:52:44system. They're going to have to pump as

1:52:45many times as they need to to keep it

1:52:47empty. So that was the decision made by

1:52:49the board tonight.

1:52:51>> All right.

1:52:51>> Sounds like a decent temporary solution

1:52:54while you fix it.

1:52:56>> So in other words, what you're saying is

1:52:59that it can be repaired.

1:53:01>> Anything can be repaired.

1:53:02>> Okay. All right.

1:53:03>> It's just the cost.

1:53:05>> Well, if the cost is similar, he said

1:53:08the cost is similar between doing A or

1:53:10B.

1:53:12>> Well, the uh health department does not

1:53:13take costs into effect. So we just it

1:53:16doesn't matter to us what it costs as

1:53:17long as it's repaired and we don't get

1:53:19any um nitrogen more into the into the

1:53:22wells. You have a wellhead right there.

1:53:24Morse is what um the Morse Street well

1:53:27is right over there. We have areas of

1:53:29tributaries coming down. We don't want

1:53:31to see high nitrogen levels because that

1:53:33could cause sickness and babies and

1:53:35stuff like that. So we want So our thing

1:53:37is just to get it clear. We don't it

1:53:39doesn't matter. the board has supported

1:53:41them to get tied on, but if there is a

1:53:43repair availability, then that is also

1:53:47um under title five, we would repair.

1:53:50>> Okay.

1:53:50>> Okay. Thank you.

1:53:51>> Can I just ask a follow-up question? So,

1:53:53as of right now,

1:53:55>> is the solution that the board of health

1:53:57the temporary solution to use that tight

1:53:59tank like system, is that going to allow

1:54:03nitrogen to continue infiltrating into

1:54:06the soil or is that going to stop it

1:54:08kind of where it's at right now? a stop

1:54:09gap. So what happens is they have a

1:54:12tank, it pumps up to a recirculating

1:54:14sand filter that runs everything through

1:54:16just the liquid and then after it runs

1:54:19through it gets shipped up to the field

1:54:21and then it soaks in. So what ends up

1:54:23happening is if we p a tight tank,

1:54:25nothing is leaving the tank. Everything

1:54:28is going to get sucked out and it's like

1:54:3034 cents a gallon at 19,000 gallons um

1:54:33however many times they need to get it

1:54:35pumped. And they would have it's a stop

1:54:38gap. Our board was like, if you get to

1:54:40be on town sewer, you do this until you

1:54:43hook up. If not, then they have to come

1:54:45up with a plan of how they're going to

1:54:47repair. And they'd still have to do the

1:54:48stop gap until they repair the system.

1:54:51Right now, they did a um bypass. So,

1:54:54they they had a pooling on top of the

1:54:56recirculating sand filter and the

1:54:59pooling would cause odors and everything

1:55:00like that to the neighborhood in the

1:55:02community right around that area. So,

1:55:04the board we had said two weeks ago to

1:55:06stop the pooling. So they decided to do

1:55:08a um a bypass which doubled the amount

1:55:12of nitrogen going in the soil. So today

1:55:14at the board of health meeting they

1:55:15decided we don't want that nitrogen

1:55:17going in. So they did a stop gap, shut

1:55:19down the system, empty the system as

1:55:21many times it needs to keep it clean and

1:55:24until your board decides how you want

1:55:26them to proceed. If you allow them to uh

1:55:30attach the town sewer, then they'll do

1:55:32this until they get the town sewer

1:55:34hooked up and then they can stop and

1:55:36then do whatever they have to do to get

1:55:38rid of the field, get rid of the

1:55:39recirculating sand filter. They have to

1:55:41remove all that. They can't leave it

1:55:42there. Or if you say no, then they have

1:55:45to do that until they get the repairs

1:55:47completed and the field is back where it

1:55:49needs to be. So, so with that

1:55:52information, that puts the cost of

1:55:54repairs much higher than connecting to

1:55:55town sewer

1:55:56>> for you.

1:55:58>> Well, for the homeowners,

1:56:01>> well, the homeowners might have

1:56:03something to talk about with the HOA

1:56:05about how the thing was constructed,

1:56:08>> right? Which is going to I mean,

1:56:11as developers hired a qualified

1:56:13engineer, qualified installer, and we've

1:56:14had a qualified maintenance company for

1:56:16the past uh five years. Um

1:56:22the install uh the designer, the

1:56:24engineer won't return our calls because

1:56:26of possible pending litigation. The uh

1:56:29>> about this

1:56:30>> sorry

1:56:31>> about this

1:56:31>> about this um the builder won't return

1:56:35any of our calls. It's fingerpointing

1:56:36going back and forth. We're just out of

1:56:38time at this point and we're looking for

1:56:39the best long-term solution as well as

1:56:41the quickest route to rectify the

1:56:44problem and everything is pointing

1:56:45towards connecting to town sewer. There

1:56:47is the capacity. There was a contingency

1:56:50plan plan put in place from the

1:56:51beginning.

1:56:52>> No, and it's

1:56:54>> not according I mean we have nothing in

1:56:55our documentation tells us that.

1:56:58>> So I guess let me just put this in in

1:57:01perspective of how I'm thinking of it.

1:57:03So the development wasn't constructed

1:57:06properly. The septic system wasn't

1:57:08constructed properly. I understand that

1:57:10connecting to sewer is a better

1:57:11long-term solution. It's better for the

1:57:12residents. However, you're asking the

1:57:15town So hold on. You're asking the

1:57:17planning board to say, "Yeah, we screwed

1:57:19up, but let's take some capacity from

1:57:23potential future development because we

1:57:25need it more and we don't want to pay

1:57:26extra money or take extra time and it's

1:57:29a better long-term solution for us even

1:57:31though we didn't do things the right

1:57:32way. Let's take that from future

1:57:34development opportunities and serve us."

1:57:37So, I get it from your arguments side,

1:57:39but I don't get it from the townwide

1:57:41side. It seems like it's benefiting

1:57:44those residents and not benefiting or

1:57:47potentially being

1:57:49I don't want to say harmful, that's not

1:57:50the right term, but not helpful to

1:57:53future development potential in town,

1:57:55which benefits the town as a whole

1:57:57because of these errors of construction.

1:58:01>> So, uh, just to answer your first part,

1:58:03the

1:58:04it was certified and inspected and was

1:58:07said to be built the correct way. We're

1:58:10at a situation now where it's not

1:58:11working. Um, we don't we don't know. I'm

1:58:14not an expert at it. People that we

1:58:16spoke to said they don't know yet either

1:58:18until you take the whole thing apart and

1:58:20figure out what's going on. We know it's

1:58:22not working currently. to take it apart

1:58:24is going to require I think we

1:58:26>> right.

1:58:26>> So what I'm trying to get from you is

1:58:28why should the town as a whole dedicate

1:58:31this capacity that could benefit the

1:58:34town through future development to this

1:58:36already developed property that has a

1:58:39septic system that was not constructed

1:58:41properly can be fixed and may not need

1:58:43to take that capacity. What what is the

1:58:46benefit to Westboro by taking that

1:58:48route? So, um, as far as Westboro, I

1:58:51don't have an answer for that, but as

1:58:53far as, uh,

1:58:57helping 20 Westboro homeowner residents

1:59:01that are taxpayers as well, that

1:59:03>> But they could have a septic system that

1:59:04works if the

1:59:05>> But there's no guarantee that it won't

1:59:06fail in the future.

1:59:07>> Yeah, I know. But the thing is that for

1:59:09one thing, you told us the costs are

1:59:11going to be similar as to why if it

1:59:14doesn't work in the future, that's your

1:59:16problem. I mean, you know, if you Again,

1:59:18we thought this was going to work and

1:59:20it's not

1:59:21>> Yeah, but that's not our problem.

1:59:23>> Okay.

1:59:25>> Not that it's not our problem.

1:59:26>> I get what I get what you're saying, but

1:59:28it's it's it's not our problem to solve.

1:59:32It's the HOA's problem to solve because

1:59:34it was caused by the developer and not

1:59:37by it wasn't an error on the planning

1:59:39board's part of missing something. It

1:59:41wasn't I mean we're understanding it

1:59:42what may not have been an error in

1:59:44maintenance of the system but it was an

1:59:46error on the developer side that caused

1:59:48this and now you're asking the town

1:59:51>> to give that development

1:59:55resources that we were

1:59:56>> the developers out the developers out of

1:59:58this project.

2:00:00Okay. So the HOS I thought you said you

2:00:02were with the developers. still the

2:00:04trustee of the Jos LLC is still the

2:00:06trustee of the homeowners association,

2:00:09but all of the property has been

2:00:11transferred over to the to the HOA.

2:00:16>> So, do you have control of the HOA?

2:00:18>> We have control of the HOA as trustee,

2:00:20but not as a developer.

2:00:22>> Okay. So, so the trustee of the HOA,

2:00:26>> who was the developer at one point,

2:00:28>> right,

2:00:29>> is trying to get a benefit from the

2:00:30town.

2:00:33No, because because the developer is

2:00:35paying for it either way. The developer

2:00:37has stepped up and said they're going

2:00:39they will either pay the cost to repair

2:00:42or they will pay the cost to connect to

2:00:44town sewer.

2:00:45>> Okay.

2:00:46>> So there's no requirement. What's the

2:00:49cost to the residents?

2:00:51>> Sorry.

2:00:51>> What's the cost to the residents?

2:00:54>> The town connection fees.

2:00:58So, if there were no connection fees to

2:01:00a sewer, then the residents would pay

2:01:03nothing to have this septic system

2:01:04fixed.

2:01:08>> Correct.

2:01:10>> So, we're not actually impacting the

2:01:12residents if we say, "No, you have to

2:01:15stay with the septic system because

2:01:16they're not going to have any money out

2:01:17of their pockets because of this." No,

2:01:19but in the future if this happens again.

2:01:21>> Well, yeah, but in the future if the

2:01:23sewer main breaks and something else, I

2:01:25mean, we can't plan for that kind of

2:01:28stuff because that could happen

2:01:29anywhere.

2:01:31>> Okay. I I guess my question is I'm just

2:01:33not sure why an application from 20

2:01:36residents or HOA of 20 residents would

2:01:38not get the same consideration as a new

2:01:40application

2:01:41>> because they're in a septic system that

2:01:43can be repaired as well,

2:01:44>> but they're in a situation where the

2:01:45septic system is is failing.

2:01:47>> Yeah. But the thing is it's not just

2:01:49benefiting the 20 residents. It's the

2:01:52fact is that we have a a site plan which

2:01:54we've approved

2:01:56which took into consideration when it

2:01:59was done that the one of the benefits

2:02:02that we approved this on was based on

2:02:05the fact that it was only using six

2:02:09houses were going to be attached to the

2:02:10town sewer. The rest was going to be on

2:02:13their own sewer. That was one of the

2:02:15purposes of the approval when we

2:02:17approved this site plan. And so to make

2:02:20a major change like this when the thing

2:02:23could be repaired, that's where I find

2:02:25it difficult to come in and make a

2:02:28change to an existing site plan.

2:02:30>> And I understand what you're saying. Um

2:02:32it's just that we've been operating

2:02:33under the idea that this subdivision was

2:02:36approved during the moratorum when there

2:02:38wasn't an allocation allowed for the

2:02:39additional 20 homes. It was approved in

2:02:412016 prior to the sub prior to the

2:02:45moratorum.

2:02:48>> So why would a subdivision today be

2:02:50allowed to connect if a subdivision back

2:02:52then wasn't allowed?

2:02:52>> We don't know if they may or may not. It

2:02:55depends on the subdivision.

2:02:57>> We look at we look on each subdivision

2:02:59individually. It depends on what the the

2:03:03developer comes to us. I mean, sometimes

2:03:05developers come and say, "Look, as a

2:03:07concession for approval on something

2:03:10like this, we're not going to take

2:03:1340 individual houses that are going to

2:03:16tap into the town sewer.

2:03:20I mean, we have to look at each

2:03:21individual subdivision that comes and

2:03:24see what kind of services within the

2:03:27town it's going to be using."

2:03:29and sewer system. Our sewer capacity is

2:03:33something that we have a real problem

2:03:35with in this c town and we're being very

2:03:38careful about how we allocate it and how

2:03:41it's used so that we can continue

2:03:43forward with development in this town. I

2:03:46mean, otherwise we're going to reach a

2:03:47situation where we have a developer that

2:03:50comes in and wants to do something and

2:03:52we say, "Oh, sorry. We don't have any

2:03:55sewer capacity and there's nowhere you

2:03:57can put your own sewer." So, that's

2:04:00where our problem is.

2:04:03>> I'm sorry. I'm just still not

2:04:05understanding why a future subdivision

2:04:07would take priority over 20 existing

2:04:10homeowners that are in a situation

2:04:11>> because you have an option. You've got

2:04:13you've got an alternative,

2:04:15>> but it's not the best long-term option.

2:04:18>> Long-term has nothing to do with it.

2:04:20>> It's an enormous cost to the homeowners

2:04:22to run a a private septic system.

2:04:24>> That's correct. And when the homeowners

2:04:26originally this subdivision was set up,

2:04:29I hope someone told the homeowners when

2:04:31they moved in there that when you're

2:04:33running your own septic system, it's

2:04:35going to be expensive because that is a

2:04:37cost that came from day one when they

2:04:40bought their houses and knowing they

2:04:42were on a septic system and not on

2:04:45sewer.

2:04:47>> Okay. So, just to clarify, it's being

2:04:50reserved for future development. your

2:04:52septic allocation. I'm sorry, your sewer

2:04:54allocation.

2:04:54>> Not necessarily. In this situation, it's

2:04:56you have a septic system in place. It's

2:04:59not working because it was either

2:05:01designed wrong, constructed wrong,

2:05:03something was done wrong on the

2:05:05developer side of it.

2:05:06>> Right. So, you keep on referring to the

2:05:08developer, but the developer hired

2:05:11>> whoever whoever built the system. Okay.

2:05:14And the developer paid for it, right?

2:05:16>> Yes.

2:05:17>> Okay. So, it's the developer's

2:05:19responsibility going back because they

2:05:22built the system.

2:05:23>> Was the developer forced to choose this

2:05:25engineer to put the system and design

2:05:26the system in?

2:05:29>> I wasn't involved. I can't

2:05:30>> I can tell you they they weren't forced

2:05:31to do that because that's not how it

2:05:32works. So, they chose this engineer. So,

2:05:35they made the choice. If they got

2:05:37scammed, that's I'm sorry that sucks,

2:05:39right? And I understand and I also

2:05:41understand that the residents are

2:05:43dealing with something and you're

2:05:44dealing with something that's not a

2:05:45great situation.

2:05:47But if it's not something that the town

2:05:51caused and it's something that the

2:05:53developer and their subcontractors

2:05:56were not doing properly, now the

2:05:59solution is to take a sewer allocation

2:06:02that was not meant for this subdivision

2:06:05because they have a septic system and

2:06:06they still have a septic system. Why is

2:06:08it fair to take that allocation away

2:06:11from future development because a

2:06:14developer

2:06:16made the wrong choice on an engineer?

2:06:21Okay. Um again, I I see that it keeps on

2:06:25being pushed onto the developer, but at

2:06:26some point the engineer needs to take

2:06:28responsibility as well.

2:06:29>> Absolutely. As well,

2:06:30>> it's not the town's fault.

2:06:32>> The engineer

2:06:32>> I'm not saying it's the town's fault.

2:06:34We're here asking for connection for 20

2:06:37homeowners of your town to connect to

2:06:39town sewer, which is viable by an

2:06:42easement that was thought of and put in

2:06:44place when this subdivision was

2:06:47designed.

2:06:48>> And you're saying that you can't do that

2:06:51because you need to save it for possible

2:06:52future for future development. I mean,

2:06:54that's

2:06:55>> No, that's that's very simplified and

2:06:57and not full

2:06:59>> explanation of what we have been saying.

2:07:02you have a septic system

2:07:04>> that's failing

2:07:06>> because the engineer that the developer

2:07:09at the time hired to construct it did

2:07:13not do what they were supposed to do

2:07:15presumably.

2:07:17So if you hire somebody and they don't

2:07:20do what they're supposed to do, who's

2:07:22responsible for correcting that? Who's

2:07:24responsible for making them accountable

2:07:26for that error?

2:07:28>> Is it the town

2:07:29>> who hired them?

2:07:30>> Right. the developer,

2:07:31>> but we don't have the time to figure

2:07:33that out.

2:07:35>> I'm sorry.

2:07:37>> It's it's I think it's less time and you

2:07:39just don't want to pay the the cost.

2:07:41Honestly, at the end of the day, I'm I'm

2:07:43done with this one.

2:07:45>> You guys,

2:07:48I just I don't think it's fair to put

2:07:49this burden on the town and take

2:07:51resources that the town is trying to

2:07:53conserve for future development. Not

2:07:55saving for future development, but

2:07:56trying to conserve. If we needed to use

2:07:58this sewer capacity for this development

2:08:00because there was no septic system,

2:08:01something was failing, whatever, fine.

2:08:04But the fact that you have a sept septic

2:08:06system that can be fixed and solve this

2:08:08problem just at a higher cost or

2:08:10actually the same cost, not to the

2:08:11resident, by the way, because it's going

2:08:13to be paid by the owner. Why would we

2:08:17say, "Yeah, scrap the septic system and

2:08:20connect to sewer." And it doesn't make

2:08:22sense from my perspective. And as you

2:08:24said, if you connect to sewer, the

2:08:27homeowners are going to have to pay for

2:08:29that connection fee. So there's

2:08:31>> Well, he's also said the homeowner is

2:08:32going to pay for the maintenance of the

2:08:33septic system, which is understandable,

2:08:35but

2:08:36>> but you know that when you

2:08:36>> But to Hazel's point, that was a known

2:08:39>> John's uh statement before. You said

2:08:41it's it would like kind of implied that

2:08:43it would be cheaper. We're paying the

2:08:44same price either either way. It's not

2:08:47like we're trying to get out of paying.

2:08:48We're paying even though we don't have

2:08:50to, but the developer is just trying to

2:08:53do the right do the right thing at this

2:08:55point. It's out of their control.

2:08:56>> If you could choose the cheap the less

2:08:58expensive option, you would the

2:09:00developer would

2:09:02>> No, I can't say that with certainty.

2:09:04>> Okay.

2:09:06>> But that's that's

2:09:07>> we're trying to choose the best solution

2:09:10for long-term, especially considering

2:09:12the fact that it's in a zone two with

2:09:14sensitive nitrogen levels. connecting to

2:09:16town sewer just seems to be the best

2:09:20possible path forward.

2:09:23>> I don't disagree with you. I think

2:09:24connecting to the sewer would be the

2:09:25best long-term solution. I just don't

2:09:28think the situation that we're in with

2:09:30this subdivision warrants that jump this

2:09:34quickly because there's a lot of stuff

2:09:36that can be done to fix it and solve

2:09:38that problem and not take sewer which is

2:09:41an allocation that we are very

2:09:43conservative with because we have one

2:09:47sewer treatment facility. Um, and so

2:09:51it's not something that we can just give

2:09:53away because you say, "Oh, well, it

2:09:54failed and now we don't know what to do

2:09:56and we're running out of time." Like

2:09:57it's

2:09:59and especially when the the problems are

2:10:01caused because something on the

2:10:03construction side was the issue, not not

2:10:06operations, not maintenance, not

2:10:08something the town did, not something

2:10:09out of your control, right? And that's I

2:10:12think where I struggle with this.

2:10:15>> Okay. So, what what do we do next? I

2:10:18mean, the board of health

2:10:19>> I I would be open to continuing this to

2:10:21try and get some feedback from other

2:10:22town departments. Um, I don't I don't

2:10:26need to make a decision on this right

2:10:27now, but I don't know if you were

2:10:28looking to have a decision today or if

2:10:30you're okay with continuing either.

2:10:34>> Doesn't sound like we'll get a

2:10:37consensus tonight.

2:10:39>> Okay. I mean if if I hear personally if

2:10:41I hear from

2:10:43um DPW board of health I mean we already

2:10:45hear from board of health but if I hear

2:10:46from DPW and all the other town staff

2:10:48and say yeah sewer is the best option

2:10:50I'm inclined to trust them right

2:10:53>> well DPW has weighed in they've reviewed

2:10:56our plans we have comments from

2:10:57>> yeah but all right the DPW

2:11:01um they've said yes there is sewer

2:11:05capacity but they haven't said you know

2:11:08great go out

2:11:10use that po portion that's left for this

2:11:13development. All they're asked to do is

2:11:14whether you can you can put the sewer in

2:11:17there. It is available. It could be

2:11:19done. I mean, that's the question that

2:11:22was asked, I assume, at the DPW. Um,

2:11:24>> they've reviewed our full set of plans.

2:11:26>> I know, but that has nothing to do with

2:11:30just because they've reviewed the plans

2:11:32and they said, "Okay, the plans are fine

2:11:34and yes, you can connect to the sewer."

2:11:37That's not what we're grappling with

2:11:38here. What we're grappling with here is

2:11:41whether or not it is appropriate for the

2:11:45development to be connected to the sewer

2:11:48when there is other options. So that's

2:11:50what I'm saying is that just because

2:11:52they've reviewed the plans and said,

2:11:54"Yeah, the plans are fine." And yes,

2:11:55they could go and look at any house

2:11:57around here that is not on the sewer and

2:11:59they could look and someone could draw

2:12:01plans. They could look at them and say,

2:12:03"Yeah, this can be done, but that's not

2:12:05the question we're grappling with here.

2:12:11President, did you

2:12:12>> um there was a comment submitted uh by

2:12:15the town engineer just to make sure

2:12:17everybody saw that um that the DPW

2:12:23requests that the sewer main lines

2:12:25outside of the public way remain

2:12:27private. Um the town will be responsible

2:12:30from the manhole that they want to tie

2:12:32into, which is located in a town-owned

2:12:34easement off Old Connecticut Path. So,

2:12:38you know, they would be responsible from

2:12:40the manhole in the road, but the whole

2:12:43sewer line connection that was shown up

2:12:45there would be their responsibility to

2:12:46maintain,

2:12:47>> right?

2:12:49Yeah. So, as I said, that's not what

2:12:51we're grappling with. What we're

2:12:52grappling with is the use of the

2:12:55capacity from the city.

2:12:56>> And that's not even a recommendation

2:12:57from the DPW that it should connect.

2:12:59It's just if it were to connect, this

2:13:00would be our recommendation. So I would

2:13:02I would like to talk to staff and get a

2:13:04little bit more

2:13:06>> understanding as to what their

2:13:08>> I'm your reason as why we can't go ahead

2:13:10and adjourn it to the following till

2:13:13October meeting.

2:13:15>> I move that we continue the hearing for

2:13:18uh Silver Hollow Estates Zero Bard Owl

2:13:21Drive to October 6th 2026.

2:13:25>> Second.

2:13:25>> Second.

2:13:26>> All in favor?

2:13:29>> Thank you.

2:13:29>> All right.

2:13:32My understanding that you will have you

2:13:34have to work on it. I mean you are in

2:13:37the proc under the department department

2:13:39of health requirements at this point.

2:13:41You are having to do some work on it at

2:13:44the moment. Okay. So you're doing that

2:13:47anyway.

2:13:52>> Mike.

2:13:54Uh the next matter is 228 Ruggle Street.

2:13:57Um

2:14:01Barry, at this point um we've had I've

2:14:04had a request from two board members

2:14:06who've not had a chance to review the

2:14:09decision. I think since it's getting

2:14:11fairly late tonight, um I'd just like to

2:14:14adjourn this to or continue this to our

2:14:17next meeting.

2:14:19And I know there were a number of

2:14:20changes made. In the meantime, um,

2:14:23everyone will have a chance to review

2:14:25the decision, take a look at it. Any

2:14:27changes we as individuals have can be

2:14:31given to Kristen to change and go back

2:14:33and forth if needed.

2:14:36>> That's all right with you. I'd like to

2:14:37>> Can we just ask if Barry had any

2:14:39comments on the decision? Did you have a

2:14:40chance to review it?

2:14:42>> Uh, yes, I did.

2:14:43>> Yeah, there were a number of changes.

2:14:45>> Oh, you already submitted your comments.

2:14:46>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah,

2:14:47>> I missed those.

2:14:49>> That was the reason. Yeah.

2:14:52>> All right. So, if that's agreeable.

2:14:56>> Yes. I guess um we also got um some uh

2:15:00uh additional resident information today

2:15:03that I haven't had a full chance to

2:15:05review. Um I would like if since I would

2:15:09like to be able to review everything for

2:15:11next time, um I would ask that we keep

2:15:14the the hearing.

2:15:16>> Yeah.

2:15:17>> Perfect.

2:15:18Can I uh just add uh it's my

2:15:22understanding tonight that the um

2:15:24conservation commission has approved

2:15:26their uh their portion of it. So

2:15:29>> Oh, good. Well, then we will be able to

2:15:30get that prior to our next meeting,

2:15:32which will be good. And I also noticed

2:15:34there was a letter from the historical

2:15:35commission um that originally when this

2:15:39subdivision was looked at five six years

2:15:42ago um they

2:15:45had

2:15:47there's not a formal requirement in town

2:15:50but there is um a request that whenever

2:15:53there is a new road put in or a new

2:15:55street that they go to the historical

2:15:58commission for approval of the name. And

2:16:01there was at that time a name which had

2:16:04been suggested and approved for a road

2:16:07that would go into that and it was

2:16:09called to be called Libby Lane. And I

2:16:13noticed that on your drawings there is a

2:16:15another name there. So the developer

2:16:18needs to go to the historical commission

2:16:22to um work uh to get approval of a name

2:16:26on that particular road. Actually, that

2:16:28was from um writings, too. They had a

2:16:32couple different things on those

2:16:33minutes. So, Sarata Lane was the

2:16:36approved. Um

2:16:37>> Oh, I also read that it was

2:16:40>> No, I there was a letter from Christian

2:16:42on that said it was Libby Lane that was

2:16:44approved.

2:16:46>> Okay.

2:16:47>> I think it just came in. I saw that

2:16:51>> five o'clock came in today. Yeah,

2:16:53>> because we have that same name in

2:16:56>> the same thing.

2:16:57>> Yes,

2:16:58>> but that was dated, right? Maybe because

2:17:00it sounded like

2:17:02>> the name was um offered because of its

2:17:05historical significance. So, it might

2:17:07have just been taken in the time.

2:17:10>> It was a historical

2:17:12>> Yeah.

2:17:13>> name for that property. So anyway, I

2:17:16>> I think that was approved during the

2:17:17preliminary plan for the the name. So

2:17:22>> but that's not the name.

2:17:23>> Sarata Lane was what was approved.

2:17:26>> Something with Sarata, but I'd have to

2:17:27look it up again.

2:17:28>> Anyway, that's something that needs to

2:17:29be straightened out. It's not crucial as

2:17:32far as it subdivision, but I do know you

2:17:35made a number of changes. So, we've had

2:17:37a motion and a second, I believe, on

2:17:40this.

2:17:42We didn't make a motion yet. I guess I'm

2:17:44I'm asking before we move it if we have

2:17:47members of the public who want to

2:17:51>> if there's anything they want to speak

2:17:52on from anything that was submitted.

2:17:55>> All right. There haven't been any

2:17:56changes. Okay. Is there anyone here

2:17:58who'd like to speak in this matter? Um I

2:18:00would just like to caution you if there

2:18:03is um a repeat of information that we've

2:18:06heard over and over and over, it's not

2:18:08doing us any good. And I would like to

2:18:11move forward from those complaints that

2:18:14we've heard.

2:18:19>> Yes.

2:18:27I want to first say thank Oh, sorry,

2:18:29Antonia. Three long drive. I want to

2:18:31first say thank you for coming here to

2:18:33today and doing what you do. These

2:18:35meetings are super boring. You are

2:18:37heroes without capes. I think I've

2:18:39proven a few points since our last

2:18:41meeting. Kindly allow me to explain. Our

2:18:43coalition of a butters may yield time if

2:18:45madame chair is cool with it. I'm in a

2:18:48butter who had never attended a public

2:18:50hearing before this. I knew nothing

2:18:51about vernal pools and baby salamanders

2:18:54wetlands zoning bylaws, planning board

2:18:56versus concom jurisdiction, mass depth

2:18:59storm water bmps or FEMA zone A versus

2:19:03mass depth zone A. I do now. Yet, I

2:19:06found a very material zone A violation

2:19:10uh that that the town, Concom, and peer

2:19:12reviewers did not identify. Correct me

2:19:14if I'm mistaken. I'm not. But isn't the

2:19:17burden of proof on the applicant? I get

2:19:21three minutes. They've had months.

2:19:25At least 20 material defects remain

2:19:27unresolved. I focused only on one last

2:19:31week.

2:19:33CI still has not identified many others.

2:19:36I have. That is not my job, especially

2:19:39on a parcel more complicated and

2:19:41constrained than 50 Flanders Road. As

2:19:44228 Rugles permitting history proves,

2:19:48our last hearing respectfully, the

2:19:50assistant town planner said, "My cited

2:19:52regulations had been in extensively

2:19:55discussed and the design was agreeable.

2:19:58Before that, we heard everything was

2:20:00good." That concerns me in audit and

2:20:04assurance, governance, risk and

2:20:06compliance. We call that ineffective

2:20:08controls.

2:20:10I with no engineering experience had to

2:20:13annotate the plans myself. Why is that

2:20:16my job? Why is CI silent on this? Within

2:20:20days of my memo, WDA moved sewer lines

2:20:24and appertinances outside of zone A.

2:20:27Then last time I was here, I pointed out

2:20:29that they missed one. WDA did not

2:20:32directly an answer chairman Norse's

2:20:34request for a zone AP splaining memo.

2:20:38They again moved the sewer line. So does

2:20:41WDA understand these three binary

2:20:44regulations? Their actions suggest yes.

2:20:47Every time I identify a violation, they

2:20:49move it. So now I ask you to zoom all

2:20:53the way in. Using WDA's own plans,

2:20:56dimensions, and map ratios, lines in a

2:20:58pertinances they supposedly moved are

2:21:01still in zone A. Are there more sewer or

2:21:04storm water

2:21:07issues in or straddling zone A by feet

2:21:10or inches?

2:21:13So why wasn't mass depth zone A

2:21:15correctly identified on day one in

2:21:18January? I'm not accusing anyone. Draw

2:21:21your own conclusions.

2:21:22Once zone A was well established in

2:21:25April, why am I still identifying

2:21:28impertinances,

2:21:30misregulations, and Cadelier issues? Are

2:21:33we playing a game of where's Waldo?

2:21:37Now, the final and biggest point. WDA

2:21:40drew the zone A line on the map. That is

2:21:44not an impartial line. I do not trust it

2:21:47and neither should the planning board or

2:21:49the conservation commission without

2:21:51independent verification. Please look at

2:21:54the analogous shingle mill project in

2:21:56Rockland

2:21:58where mass depth field survey field

2:22:01survey the zone A- line itself. So

2:22:04please zoom all the way in. Tell the

2:22:08tell the tell the developer to identify

2:22:11every Waldo and its distance from an

2:22:14independent independently mass depth

2:22:16field survey zone A-line because I

2:22:18confess I already know where the Waldos

2:22:21are and I can release one Waldo at each

2:22:25continuence. Please don't choose that

2:22:27option. Thank you.

2:22:30>> Thank you.

2:22:33So through the chair, I think the

2:22:35discussion we had with gentleman was

2:22:36last time was that the applicability

2:22:39criteria for

2:22:42the zone A restriction did not apply.

2:22:46And so we asked uh WDA to submit a memo

2:22:51to the engineer or department of public

2:22:54works saying here's our stance. Please

2:22:57confirm or not confirm.

2:23:00This gentleman is now saying you changed

2:23:01the lines rather than that memo. Could

2:23:05you just give us an explanation as to

2:23:07what has happened since that last

2:23:08meeting?

2:23:09>> Sure. The uh

2:23:12lot to house

2:23:15for constructibility. we met the

2:23:18requirements in that um CMR to if we

2:23:23can't avoid it that they're suggested

2:23:25and recommendation that was witnessed by

2:23:28both of the uh gentlemen we talked to at

2:23:30D to make them waterproof. We did that.

2:23:34It still didn't meet uh the um concerns

2:23:38of the neighbors. So, we found an

2:23:41alternate route that came out the side

2:23:43of the building, which ultimately is not

2:23:45the best of construction. It's certainly

2:23:49going to be a little more difficult for

2:23:50the the builder of the house and so

2:23:52forth than normal construction, bringing

2:23:54a sewer out the front of the house.

2:23:56It'll come out the side of the house.

2:23:58So, it was easier for us to show it come

2:24:00out the side of the house and conform to

2:24:03nothing being within the zone A

2:24:06requirement.

2:24:08Do we have some confirmation from Lisa

2:24:11on this Kristen

2:24:14>> or from CEI? If you if you change the

2:24:16plans, has CI taken another look at it?

2:24:18>> Yes. Have they

2:24:19>> The last um peer review they did was

2:24:22August

2:24:2426th.

2:24:29They're aware of it come out the side as

2:24:31well as the town engineer,

2:24:35>> but CI hasn't given us a comment letter

2:24:38regarding that change, have they?

2:24:41>> They haven't addressed those changes in

2:24:42their comment letters. I don't think

2:24:44they had

2:24:48>> about the removal from the zone A alto

2:24:50together

2:24:52>> uh in um telephone conversation of hey

2:24:57we're going to move it outside the zone

2:24:58A. Okay.

2:25:04>> I mean the problem is that we as a

2:25:06planning board are not the you know

2:25:08we're not the experts in this area. So,

2:25:11we have to rely on town staff or

2:25:14consultants to make our decisions.

2:25:17And at the moment, I'm just not quite

2:25:20sure where I am. I mean, it

2:25:21>> Yeah, I think

2:25:22>> back and forth in this zone A. Yeah, I'm

2:25:25I'm concerned CI has not taken a look at

2:25:28these revised plans and given us

2:25:30feedback because if something else has

2:25:33changed,

2:25:33>> they they looked at them up to the point

2:25:35where the previous set of plans had a

2:25:38section of 30 or 40 feet of pipe that

2:25:41were going to go through the zone A and

2:25:43then they had

2:25:44>> and they were fine with that as well as

2:25:46the town engineer and the the rest of

2:25:48the departments were fine with that

2:25:51>> and then they removed it all together.

2:25:53And

2:25:53>> so the only change to the plans from the

2:25:56one that CI reviewed and the ones that

2:25:58we have now is that those orertinances

2:26:00have been relocated on lot two.

2:26:02>> Yes.

2:26:03>> And outside entirely of zone A. That's

2:26:06the only change to the plan.

2:26:08>> Correct.

2:26:11>> And the 10 and Lisa has seen these also.

2:26:14>> Yes.

2:26:17>> And we have something written that

2:26:19approved those.

2:26:21Um, I have a sign off in the portal.

2:26:24>> Okay.

2:26:25>> Um, I don't have a memo, an official

2:26:28memo.

2:26:30Um,

2:26:31>> that's I'm looking for the sign offs. I

2:26:33mean that, you know, as they said,

2:26:35>> if the town staff has signed off on

2:26:38>> on plans as they've been revised, then

2:26:42we as or myself as a

2:26:44>> member of the planning board, I have to

2:26:46use that as what I'm dealing with.

2:26:52Yes, sir.

2:26:54>> I just wanted to add that

2:26:57when I reviewed the last CI report from

2:26:59August 26, on the cover page, it says

2:27:02that the last documents they reviewed

2:27:04were June and July. It does appear

2:27:07though that there have been many

2:27:09revisions to the storm water and the

2:27:12definitive plan since uh start after CI

2:27:16reviewed it even though their report is

2:27:18dated August 26. Um I'm a little

2:27:21concerned to hear that it sounds kind of

2:27:24chummy between the developer and the

2:27:27independent peer reviewer. Um I'm not

2:27:30saying anything. I'm just it just sounds

2:27:32that way. And really my point here is

2:27:35that I haven't seen any of those those

2:27:38uh of that any of the updated CI reviews

2:27:41and and peer reviewers sign off on the

2:27:43portal. Uh I have a I have an alert that

2:27:46automatically tells

2:27:47>> I suggest that you go into the planning

2:27:50department and talk to Kristen. I mean

2:27:52if you've claimed you've not seen things

2:27:55I do know that you've made have you not

2:27:57made a record review request? It has not

2:28:00been produced related to the decision

2:28:02from

2:28:03>> I'm sorry. I don't think the town has

2:28:06not not produced them. I believe this is

2:28:09fairly recent and when you ask for reams

2:28:11and miles of paper, you don't expect to

2:28:14get them the next day.

2:28:15>> No, absolutely. I I submitted it over 10

2:28:18days ago. Um, my request was really

2:28:20limited to any and all communications

2:28:23that the assistant town planner said

2:28:25that they had regarding the approval of

2:28:28the sewer pertinance issue. And I don't

2:28:30think there was any, right? And so

2:28:32that's why the WDA moved the sewer

2:28:34pertinances that I brought up last week

2:28:36outside of zone A. And if you please

2:28:38just zoom in all the way, it's still

2:28:40touching zone A. And my point here, too,

2:28:43is that, you know, they drew the same

2:28:45zone A line on the map.

2:28:46>> All right. Well, I think the planning

2:28:47board's going to move forward as of our

2:28:49next meeting. Your op, you have a legal

2:28:52option. If you don't like what we do or

2:28:55don't agree with it, you this decision

2:28:58can always be appealed. There is time

2:29:00according to legal

2:29:02>> 20 days. We understand. Thank you.

2:29:04>> All right.

2:29:09>> Yes.

2:29:11>> Chris Payant, director of public works.

2:29:13Um, I just want to make one point of

2:29:15clarification. on process. So, um

2:29:19specifically about this sewer lateral,

2:29:22this line, the sewer line in the zone A,

2:29:25um it was identified that it was in the

2:29:27zone A. The developer or the the

2:29:30engineer changed his plan to move it out

2:29:33of the zone A. That plan was submitted.

2:29:36It was reviewed by us. We acknowledge

2:29:39that it was moved out of the zone A. Um,

2:29:42that's that's all there is to it in

2:29:44terms of our review. I'm not um how it's

2:29:49built and what happens beyond I I don't

2:29:52know. I'm just telling you a plan was

2:29:54submitted that showed

2:29:57the line was moved and we acknowledged

2:30:00that to Kristen um ultimately to you.

2:30:03So, I just want to be clear that there's

2:30:05no like that we decide

2:30:09um what goes to the peer reviewer and in

2:30:13in this particular case, we didn't think

2:30:16we needed to get the peer reviewer to

2:30:17tell us something that we saw on a plan.

2:30:20Um and I'm not I'm not advocating for

2:30:23any position here. I'm just telling you

2:30:24the process that we go through when we

2:30:26review these plans. Thank you.

2:30:28>> Thank you.

2:30:31>> All right. Is there anyone else who'd

2:30:32like to speak on this matter?

2:30:38>> Uh good evening. I'm uh Ramjit Singh

2:30:41Siddhu and I'm the resident of 218

2:30:44Ruggles. It's the adjoining house to

2:30:47this uh where the development is going

2:30:49to be. So I've sent out my letters.

2:30:51There are two things I wanted to talk

2:30:53about. One is about I request you to not

2:30:57approve at this time beyond the effect

2:30:59of my property. I joined with my

2:31:01neighbors in asking board not to close

2:31:04the public hearing and not grant

2:31:05approval this evening. Five things the

2:31:08board needs are not in the file and I

2:31:11will skip something because we talked

2:31:13about board a but first one is a special

2:31:15permit for common driveway

2:31:18required by a footnote M to zoning bylaw

2:31:225.4A 4A

2:31:25uh in all districts in town of

2:31:26Westboroough, common driveways serving

2:31:29two or more detached single family

2:31:32dwelling shall be required to receive a

2:31:35special permit from the planning board.

2:31:37In no case will a common driveway serve

2:31:39more than five detached single family

2:31:41dwelling. So the applicant has described

2:31:45this road as a common driveway. In its

2:31:47original filing on July 2nd, there was

2:31:52uh it was advised with the peer reviewer

2:31:56that the roadway is going to remain

2:31:57private. So I would say before the board

2:32:01votes, we ask it to state on record

2:32:03whether the sada lane is going to show

2:32:08on a definitive subdivision plan or a

2:32:10common driveway. If it's a common

2:32:12driveway where where the footnote is

2:32:15special permit so they got to go for a

2:32:17special permit.

2:32:19Uh the number two is uh the written DPW

2:32:23M memorandum on seage infrastructure

2:32:26with zone A and the applicants

2:32:29memorandum on whether 314 CR7 or 314 CR

2:32:3412.08 08 C14 C10

2:32:38CR22

2:32:40apply. Both were committed to on the

2:32:43record on September 3rd, 2026 hearing.

2:32:47Neither exist. The peer review letter on

2:32:50August 2026 does not address any of

2:32:53those three regulations.

2:32:56Thirdly, a a registered land surveyor

2:32:59certificate of the lot area footage and

2:33:03the lot width of each of the three

2:33:05proposed under the lot zoning by law

2:33:08bylaw 5.4A and footnote K lot one. It

2:33:13states that 50,882

2:33:17ft against 50,000 ft² minimum a margin

2:33:20of 1.7 and they say building commission

2:33:24wrote on 14th September 2026 that lot

2:33:28two width line must be moved to rear not

2:33:33through the middle of the proposed house

2:33:35and must be verified by surveyor. No

2:33:39such verification is on the records.

2:33:42Fourthly, a registered professional

2:33:45engineer certification of the 400 ft

2:33:49sight distance required by the section 4

2:33:52of the subdivision sub rules and

2:33:55regulation at the intersection with

2:33:57Rugle Street. On April 6, 2026, the

2:34:00director of planning confirmed in

2:34:03writing that this is the applicant's

2:34:05burden. it has never been produced.

2:34:09We uh we note the footnote independently

2:34:11requires a common driveway to meet the

2:34:14standard defined in those rules and

2:34:16regulation. And finally I do talk about

2:34:18what Anton did is written confirmation

2:34:21of how zone A boundary shown on the

2:34:24plans was derived including a 4 200 foot

2:34:29lateral distance from the bank of

2:34:32tributary and identification of specific

2:34:35regulation exception relied on every

2:34:38sever line and importance remaining in

2:34:41the zone A. Additionally, I want to

2:34:43state is the street light waiver was

2:34:46filed on the afternoon yesterday,

2:34:49September 14th for the evening hearing,

2:34:52leaving no opportunity for public to

2:34:54review.

2:34:56The fire department commence on July

2:34:5830th, 2026

2:35:01have not been answered and written. The

2:35:04historical commission has not yet been

2:35:06reviewed the 1946 dwelling proposal for

2:35:10demolition. Open space 5.8 sets the

2:35:15minimum open space of 40% and footnotes

2:35:18require that man-made retention and

2:35:20detention area shall not be considered

2:35:22open space.

2:35:23>> Um sir, your time is really up.

2:35:26>> Yeah, sure. I I'll just write I'll just

2:35:28wrap it up. But I've said all those

2:35:30things and I would also say is for these

2:35:32reasons I respectfully request the board

2:35:34committee the public hearing and the

2:35:37grant no approval at this time and uh if

2:35:40the board nonetheless prepared to act

2:35:43this evening I ask that the requested

2:35:46conditions submitted without joint

2:35:48objection be incorporated in any

2:35:51approval.

2:35:52>> All right. So these are the few things

2:35:53and then the other one which I'm not

2:35:55going to cover now is that if you guys

2:35:58go ahead and approve it then there is

2:36:00another request that I have sent across

2:36:02which is request for protective

2:36:04condition and mitigation.

2:36:07>> All right. Um I would appreciate it if

2:36:10you could um if you have something

2:36:13written if you could give it to our

2:36:16secretary um before you leave tonight.

2:36:19So we will then review the planning uh

2:36:22our planner will review this and see

2:36:25what your questions are.

2:36:26>> Surely thank you.

2:36:29>> Didn't understand the word.

2:36:35>> All right. Is there anyone else? Yes,

2:36:37sir.

2:36:38>> No, I'm sorry. I I was pointing

2:36:41gentleman behind you.

2:36:43>> I'll be fairly quick uh given the time.

2:36:45Um I just have a couple of things I want

2:36:47to mention. One is I live in 216 Ruggle

2:36:49Street which is right up on the top

2:36:50there. So you know I would like to

2:36:53understand

2:36:53>> Sir what's your name?

2:36:55>> We need name and address.

2:36:56>> I'm sorry. Gopy Sagopen 216 Ruggle

2:36:59Street.

2:37:00I would like to understand the tree

2:37:02buffering at the borders because my you

2:37:04know where this construction is going to

2:37:06happen. It's it's right across where my

2:37:08home is. Um I would like to preserve as

2:37:12much of that as possible or build

2:37:14additional whatever that is possible

2:37:16there. So what whatever that is going to

2:37:18be done I would like to know what that

2:37:20is going to be. That's one. The second

2:37:23is we had raised I had raised a concern

2:37:25I think on 4526 about the 400 ft

2:37:28regulation on the rugul street. I have

2:37:31not seen anything specific. I might have

2:37:33missed it in terms of that might have

2:37:34been addressed. I would like to

2:37:36understand how that is going to be

2:37:38addressed. That's essentially where the

2:37:40the lane intersects with Ruggle Street

2:37:42and then going towards Upton. uh the

2:37:46regulation demands there is going to be

2:37:47a 400 foot straight visibility there. I

2:37:51don't know whether that was addressed as

2:37:52part of any of the earlier uh you know

2:37:55communication that happened before.

2:37:58>> All right. Thank you.

2:38:01>> Yes sir. I'm I'm sorry I this gentleman

2:38:04over here was first.

2:38:06>> Brian Waterman specialist and associate

2:38:09with WA design group. Uh it's late. I

2:38:12will just address the zone A because

2:38:13that seems to be the hot button.

2:38:16We did the wetland delineation myself

2:38:18personally. It was reviewed by

2:38:20conservation commission. We did a

2:38:23topographic survey on this land. We

2:38:26located there's a culvert that comes out

2:38:27of the pond that feeds this intermittent

2:38:29stream. So the intermittent stream which

2:38:34uh associates the 200 foot zone A

2:38:37boundary. Barry, is that you zooming or

2:38:40can

2:38:40>> That's me. Yeah. Oh. um

2:38:44was determined, you know, you start with

2:38:46the mass GIS boundary, the 200 foot.

2:38:49It's mapped based on their GIS mapping

2:38:52uh 1 to 24,000, 1 to 25,000.

2:38:55Our line is based on our survey

2:38:59locations

2:39:00of where the culvert is and how the

2:39:02stream follows the topography.

2:39:04>> Let me just interrupt you a second. Um,

2:39:07why did you do that? In what capacity

2:39:10are you here tonight commenting?

2:39:12>> I was at the conservation commission

2:39:15meeting. I was asked to come down here

2:39:17and let Barry know what the commission

2:39:20>> All right. Thank you.

2:39:21>> So, I'm just outlining the zone A that

2:39:24>> our line is actually a little more

2:39:26restrictive because it's more accurate

2:39:27than what the mass GIS and D line is.

2:39:30That's all.

2:39:34>> What was the point of that?

2:39:37Yes, sir.

2:39:43Uh,

2:39:43>> Matthew Gunness, 230 Rugles. I'm the

2:39:45house um on the bottom of this proposed

2:39:48development. Um, just uh three very

2:39:50brief points. I appreciate the hour and

2:39:51thank you very much for your service.

2:39:53Um, the first point is that um I have

2:39:57asked and I've never really gotten a

2:39:58response. I've been coming since March.

2:40:00Um, I missed a couple meetings. I travel

2:40:01a lot for work, so I don't know if I'll

2:40:03be here for the October 6th meeting, but

2:40:05um one of the things I've asked for is

2:40:07is you're looking right now at 232. Um

2:40:10they also built the new house and they

2:40:12they ripped down these um you know,

2:40:14hundred years oak trees. Um they're now

2:40:17stumps. There's excavation there.

2:40:19There's dumpster and there's a building.

2:40:20It's been sitting there for two years.

2:40:21They ran out of money. Um this is also a

2:40:24private project. So, I've asked that the

2:40:26the town to make a condition that the

2:40:28lot release will be tied to the

2:40:30completion of the road because I don't

2:40:31want another construction site in my

2:40:33front yard. Um, but I also don't think

2:40:35it serves the town well that a project

2:40:37gets started and it doesn't get

2:40:38finished.

2:40:39>> Barry, can you zoom out?

2:40:43>> Yeah. So, unfortunately, I'm covered

2:40:45under that uh blowout. U Barry, can you

2:40:47show another picture?

2:40:48>> Yeah, you're Yeah.

2:40:49>> Okay.

2:40:50>> Which is his house?

2:40:51>> It's It's the one that's in the back.

2:40:54right there. You can see it there

2:40:57>> on the bottom.

2:40:58>> The bottom right now.

2:40:59>> Yeah.

2:40:59>> Yeah.

2:41:01>> So, Kristen, we have we usually do have

2:41:04the lot releases based on the completion

2:41:06of the road. No,

2:41:08>> correct.

2:41:09>> I believe that's in here as well in the

2:41:11it's in here on the notes that

2:41:15prior to that one.

2:41:16>> And then the second question I have um I

2:41:19understand now this is going to be the

2:41:20current family. Um I have pictures if

2:41:22you'd like. Um, their backyard right now

2:41:24consists of an a vehicle that's been

2:41:26there for four years. Um, just abandoned

2:41:28tires, etc. Um, I'd really, this is my

2:41:32front yard where where that lot three is

2:41:34going to be built. Um, that is I think

2:41:36the board appreciated this at the last

2:41:38one of the last meetings I attended.

2:41:40That's mature tree growth that's shown

2:41:42there. It's not privacy coverage. So, I

2:41:44really would ask it's 30 feet from my

2:41:46driveway and it's right in the front

2:41:48yard. So, I would ask for some sort of

2:41:50privacy barrier that the developer takes

2:41:52care of. And I know you have a zoom in

2:41:54there. Um, what does that look like? I

2:41:56don't really understand it.

2:41:58Um, and then the last thing is the

2:42:00easement issue, which I've sent you a

2:42:02detailed memo about. I just want to make

2:42:04sure I I appreciate everybody's best

2:42:06efforts here, but my understanding is to

2:42:08maintain this storm water infiltration

2:42:10system. This is going to be tens of

2:42:13thousands of dollars a year. And right

2:42:15now, it's just like, oh, there's going

2:42:16to be an HOA and they're going to take

2:42:17care of it. Well, I'm just thinking

2:42:19about the future when, you know, it's a

2:42:21private deal and they don't take care of

2:42:22it because it costs a lot of money. Um,

2:42:24and what the impact to the town is

2:42:26because again, you got the zone A, my

2:42:28well is right here. So, I just want to

2:42:30make sure the board really considers

2:42:31that issue and maybe there's a budget

2:42:33and a plan to maintain that system. So,

2:42:35we saw this sewer thing a little bit

2:42:37earlier today. It's not too hard to

2:42:39imagine that a couple years later if

2:42:40things aren't properly maintained, they

2:42:42fail. So,

2:42:43>> thank you.

2:42:44>> Thank you for your attention question.

2:42:45>> Right. Those are

2:42:48accidentalis. Is that Did I say that

2:42:49right?

2:42:50>> I believe so. Yes.

2:42:51>> Green giants. So if you're familiar with

2:42:53green giants, the very dense green

2:42:55pillar tree things.

2:42:58>> Harbor. Yeah. Sorry. Harbor.

2:43:00>> My study is in the corner of the house.

2:43:02And does that that only extends is it

2:43:04those kind of shrubby things? Could it

2:43:07be extended further all the way? Yeah,

2:43:08exactly. continued through that line

2:43:10because that's where my study is right

2:43:12there

2:43:13>> and that's line of sight is to the road

2:43:15>> leaving all that existing tree line

2:43:17>> but that that tree line is mature tree

2:43:19there's there really is nothing

2:43:21>> well I mean we didn't clear your

2:43:23>> all right we're not have no back and

2:43:24forth between

2:43:25>> okay yeah sorry thank you

2:43:26>> but yeah we we can

2:43:27>> the comment has been received

2:43:29>> all right thank you very much

2:43:37>> yeah later Chairman,

2:43:40>> there anybody else who wishes to speak?

2:43:43All right. I'm sorry. Will you wait?

2:43:46>> Yes, ma'am. You had something you wish

2:43:48to say in the back there?

2:44:01Good evening.

2:44:03Um, my name is Susan Purcell at Three

2:44:06Long Drive. Uh I'm one of the abutters.

2:44:09I'm above I not viewable in this view,

2:44:13but if you were to zoom in um to that

2:44:17tiny little corner picture, um my lot is

2:44:22basically touches the end of this lot.

2:44:25Um I listened to or I attended the last

2:44:29planning board meeting via Westboro TV.

2:44:33Um, and I listen to the planning board

2:44:38wonder where the abutters are and

2:44:42talk about how there's no issues from

2:44:45the abutters with um with treeine or

2:44:50views or privacy. So I wanted to make

2:44:53sure to come here today to represent

2:44:56that as we have been here in the past in

2:45:00the first meeting, there's been many

2:45:03meetings since, we haven't all been able

2:45:04to attend every meeting to repeat

2:45:06ourselves, but this is a very um

2:45:10important issue for all of the

2:45:13properties surrounding the locust here.

2:45:17Um, as brought up, the trees here are

2:45:21old growth trees. This is our tree line.

2:45:23This is our backyard that when we each

2:45:27purchased our properties, we knew we

2:45:30were abudding the woods. Um, and that's

2:45:33part of the reason for our current

2:45:35property values, the way it is, the way

2:45:38it looks outside. Um, and

2:45:42what and also

2:45:44when it becomes winter, it becomes very

2:45:46obvious that those trees are very

2:45:48important because as you can probably

2:45:50attest to if you have visited the site,

2:45:53there is a lot of noise pollution um

2:45:56from Interstate 90 which is very close

2:45:59by. Um, so I have two big concerns uh

2:46:04with this project as planned from uh a

2:46:09butter where and many of us have

2:46:11adjoining backyards. We're all going to

2:46:13have a similar situation where yeah,

2:46:15there might be 20 ft, 40 ft of trees,

2:46:19but their old growth, they're relatively

2:46:21sparse, and we really rely on a lot of

2:46:24those big tall pine trees that give that

2:46:28depth between us and the interstate

2:46:32um to allow us privacy and to, you know,

2:46:37reduce the noise that we would otherwise

2:46:39have. So for all of the surrounding

2:46:42properties, the change here will be very

2:46:44significant. Um I think it's not just a

2:46:47matter of the first few trees that are,

2:46:51you know, a few feet out from the edge

2:46:52of our property line, but the reality is

2:46:55when you start taking down these trees,

2:46:58there's going to be a huge clearing. it

2:47:00will will no longer have that protective

2:47:04layer and it's going to just we're going

2:47:06to see right through and we're now

2:47:08basically abing Interstate 90. Um, and

2:47:12I'm wondering if there's anything

2:47:15that the town can consider in this

2:47:17project that would help mitigate that

2:47:19situation to an extent that really would

2:47:24reduce the concern of this huge impact

2:47:27on what we thought we were buying into

2:47:29when we got our properties.

2:47:31>> Thank you very much.

2:47:32>> Thank you.

2:47:34>> Is there anyone else who'd like to speak

2:47:35on this project? Yes, ma'am.

2:47:44just picture of the tree.

2:47:47>> Oh, thank you.

2:47:49>> Okay,

2:47:52>> you pass that down to Christian.

2:47:56>> Good evening. My name is Romana Koreshi.

2:47:59I'm on one long drive uh and my main

2:48:03concern is the same as my neighbors. uh

2:48:06privacy and uh pollution from mass spike

2:48:09noise because when we bought the house

2:48:11we were under impression maybe we were

2:48:14wrong that this is area where nothing

2:48:17will be built and that is the view of

2:48:20the house all our backyards

2:48:23look into that uh wooded area and if you

2:48:27you know thin that out or I if I would

2:48:30request that as many trees as possible

2:48:34to keep them because if you cut those

2:48:37trees we'll look straight down all the

2:48:39light from the mass pike we can see at

2:48:41night.

2:48:43So our you know privacy and having such

2:48:47a beautiful backyard and then having a

2:48:49backyard with no trees

2:48:52and trees take a long time to grow. Even

2:48:55if they plant trees 50 60 years it will

2:48:59take them for trees to mature.

2:49:03Thank you very much.

2:49:04>> Thank you so much.

2:49:06>> Hazel, could I ask Barry a question?

2:49:08>> Sure.

2:49:09>> Barry, um, from the initial plan that

2:49:12you presented to us and the one that you

2:49:16have tonight, you guys scaled back the

2:49:18clearing, right? It it it's not as much

2:49:21as it was originally.

2:49:23>> Correct.

2:49:26Is

2:49:26>> there anyone else who'd like to speak on

2:49:28this? Yes, sir.

2:49:33Thank you. So the only reason I wanted

2:49:35another 30 second is uh one of the thing

2:49:38I have sent across uh as part of the

2:49:42request for protective conditions and

2:49:43mitigation is there is a undisturbed

2:49:4750-ft buffer strip at the property

2:49:50boundaries. My backyard is like one of

2:49:53the lot it just hits there like I would

2:49:55say it's 10 to 15t. So there should be

2:49:58at least like 50 foot buffer between my

2:50:01backyard and and whichever the boundary

2:50:03of the lot hits.

2:50:04>> All right. Thank you.

2:50:05>> So thank you.

2:50:07>> Is there anyone else who'd like to speak

2:50:09on this matter?

2:50:13>> If not, could I have a motion and

2:50:15continue this until our next meeting,

2:50:17which is October five,

2:50:20>> over sixth.

2:50:21>> Sixth. Sorry.

2:50:22>> So moved.

2:50:23>> Second. Any other comments? All in

2:50:27favor?

2:50:29This matter is continued till October

2:50:316th.

2:50:33The next matter on our agenda tonight is

2:50:3519 Gleon Street and there's been a

2:50:39request for a continuation

2:50:42to October 6th.

2:50:45Kristen, are there any comments on that?

2:50:47Are they waiting for

2:50:49>> Yeah. still? The applicant requested

2:50:51continuation because they're still

2:50:53waiting the answer from D on their

2:50:56permit.

2:50:57>> I move that we continue the hearing for

2:50:5919 Gleon Street to October 6, 2026.

2:51:03>> Second.

2:51:04>> All in favor.

2:51:06This matter will be continued to October

2:51:086th. Next matter is 165 Flanders Road,

2:51:13which is also

2:51:15requested a continuation to October 6th.

2:51:21Kristen, are they still missing plans on

2:51:22this?

2:51:24>> Uh, yes. I'm still waiting um to

2:51:26coordinate with Andy Platt from Bowler

2:51:28Engineering to update their application.

2:51:31Um, they need to provide a new updated

2:51:33narrative and plans.

2:51:37>> Could I have a motion?

2:51:38>> I move we continue 165 Flanders Road to

2:51:41the October 6, 2026 hearing.

2:51:44>> Second.

2:51:45>> All in favor?

2:51:48Thank you. Um administrative

2:51:52business um the

2:51:55two meetings ago um we did change the

2:51:58policy the open forum uh to move the um

2:52:03open forum to the end of our meeting. It

2:52:05was essentially done by consensus but it

2:52:08was pointed out to me that we needed to

2:52:12vote on this change of policy. Um, we

2:52:16have revised it and I can read it. Does

2:52:21everyone I sent it this afternoon? I

2:52:22think everyone said should have seen it.

2:52:24The only changes were under a open forum

2:52:28and guidance number one which reads now

2:52:33the 10 minutes will be set aside at the

2:52:36end of each agenda for the purpose of

2:52:38open forum to allow residents department

2:52:41heads or board committee commission

2:52:45members an opportunity to address the

2:52:47planning board. And the other change is

2:52:50number six under a same open forum forum

2:52:55and guidance which now reads if there

2:52:58are more residents that wish to comment

2:53:00than time allows open forum will be

2:53:03continued at the discretion of the

2:53:05chairman. Are there any further changes

2:53:08to the policy?

2:53:11If not, could I have a motion

2:53:13>> to approve the amended policy?

2:53:16>> So moved.

2:53:17>> Second. All in favor?

2:53:20>> I. This will now be

2:53:23posted on our website and will be

2:53:26available at the end or will be

2:53:29available on the desk of people coming

2:53:31in if they wish to see it.

2:53:32>> Just one comment, Hazel. I know I

2:53:34brought this up when we um made the

2:53:36change before, but just as a reminder

2:53:39that this was a recommendation from

2:53:41other planning boards that people if you

2:53:45had something to speak about as it

2:53:46related to any of the open hearings,

2:53:49you'd be able to do so. We'd be able to

2:53:50respond, but since we can't respond,

2:53:54which um is also the recommendation that

2:53:57um it made sense to move it to the end.

2:53:59>> Thank you.

2:54:00>> Y

2:54:01>> All right. planning department updates.

2:54:06Kristen,

2:54:09>> um, we don't have too many. The one

2:54:11thing I want to, um, point out is, uh, I

2:54:15put the flyer on the table, um, where

2:54:18people checked in today and I sent it to

2:54:20the board, the active transportation,

2:54:23um, plan. We're having that community

2:54:25workshop. Um, that'll be the first

2:54:28opportunity for the public to

2:54:29participate.

2:54:31um that will be at the end of the month

2:54:33on uh September 29th in the great hall

2:54:38um at 6:00. So, everyone's welcome to

2:54:41attend. Um there's also an opportunity

2:54:44um the 3rd of October is a bike

2:54:49audit. Um so they'll go out and they'll

2:54:52do a bike ride around town and get

2:54:54feedback that way. And then we have a

2:54:56walk audit on the 17th. Um the bike

2:54:59audit is starting um at the train

2:55:02station and the walk audit is starting

2:55:04at the high school. Um but if anybody

2:55:07has questions, they could just reach out

2:55:08to me.

2:55:09>> Great.

2:55:12>> Is that it?

2:55:13>> Hazel, I have one. Uh so we got a email

2:55:16from Bill or I got an email from Bill

2:55:18Laneine. Um says town management has two

2:55:21community engagement sessions left to

2:55:23hear for the community center. Um, and

2:55:26it's a presentation by the architect

2:55:27where you can ask questions. Those

2:55:28meetings are on Monday, which was

2:55:31yesterday, right?

2:55:32>> And, uh, September 21st. Both sessions

2:55:35are at the Forbes Hall here, uh, and

2:55:38start at 6:30. And he also asked us to

2:55:42let residents know that there's a new

2:55:43501c3 foundation in town called the

2:55:45Westbrook Community Center Foundation.

2:55:47Their goals are to raise both awareness

2:55:49and supplemental funds for both the

2:55:50renovation and long-term sustainability

2:55:52for the center. So if any residents are

2:55:54interested

2:55:56then and ask questions

2:55:59>> and then we also have the Amazon thing

2:56:01on the 23rd.

2:56:04Um so there are lots of meetings coming

2:56:06up.

2:56:08Um let's see t uh reports of board

2:56:11members and town committees in CMRPC. Um

2:56:15I was at a um

2:56:18design review board this morning um

2:56:21where we discussed property on West Main

2:56:25Street and um also the new

2:56:30emergency command center on Phillips

2:56:34which was the center Yeah. which they're

2:56:36finally getting to work on now.

2:56:39So, we approved a landscaping plan and

2:56:43the uh we're still waiting on some

2:56:45lighting to approve that. And also the

2:56:49other thing was kind of fun was that the

2:56:52new Civic Club Park between the town

2:56:54hall and the uh barbecue place.

2:56:58>> Cool. Yeah.

2:56:59>> There are blank windows along that wall

2:57:03on the west wall, the east wall. And so

2:57:08the women's club has

2:57:11offered to donate money to have an

2:57:14artist draw

2:57:16um the four seasons. There'll be one for

2:57:19each season.

2:57:20>> And it's the same artist who did the

2:57:23electrical boxes around town.

2:57:27>> So she's going to be um making murals in

2:57:30each of those four windows.

2:57:32>> Fun.

2:57:33>> It was a great idea.

2:57:35And that was the only meeting I was at.

2:57:37Any other meetings? How was the CMRPC

2:57:40dinner? Did that come off?

2:57:43>> Yes, Kristen and I were there. Um, and

2:57:45it was good. There was a lot of active

2:57:46transportation talk. So, you know,

2:57:48interesting to see what different towns

2:57:50have done and and you know, there's a

2:57:52panel that talked about plans and how

2:57:54they think about, you know, future um

2:57:57development. So, Oh, great.

2:57:59>> It was great. I think one of the

2:58:01important like one thing that I thought

2:58:02was kind of interesting, one of the

2:58:04women in the panel um worked for a

2:58:07nonprofit, a health organization, and

2:58:09she was just talking about how they are

2:58:12providing grants for active

2:58:14transportation because of the health

2:58:16impacts.

2:58:16>> Oh,

2:58:17>> so that's another avenue to get money.

2:58:20>> Yeah.

2:58:20>> Great.

2:58:23>> Okay. Um let's see. Um minutes 84 and 93

2:58:34>> of 84 August 4th.

2:58:41>> What do you mean this is from yesterday?

2:58:44>> Yesterday.

2:58:46>> Okay.

2:58:46>> From the third.

2:58:47>> Okay.

2:58:48>> Yeah. Has anyone read the minutes that

2:58:50Amarie sent for September 3rd?

2:58:52>> Yesterday.

2:58:52>> From yesterday.

2:58:54>> No. No.

2:58:55>> All right. So, we'll we'll hold off on

2:58:56these. Um, yeah. And then August 4th, we

2:58:59have minutes. Do we have those printed

2:59:00out? All right. We can sign them later.

2:59:03Everyone

2:59:05had a chance to look at those. I think

2:59:07we held off on the previous.

2:59:08>> Yeah, they were from last.

2:59:09>> All right. Um, can I have a motion to

2:59:11approve those minutes as written, unless

2:59:12there's comments to or edits?

2:59:16>> Second.

2:59:18>> All in favor?

2:59:20>> I have nothing.

2:59:21>> Okay. Um, upcoming meeting dates. Um, we

2:59:24did change some dates here. So, we have

2:59:26106

2:59:29and then we go to 11:10 because of the

2:59:32fact that we have we didn't want to meet

2:59:35the day after the town meeting. The next

2:59:39Tuesday was the Halloween party. The

2:59:42Tuesday after that was election day. And

2:59:46so, we then ended up in the 10th. And

2:59:49because um we decided to go ahead and do

2:59:53the 10th and the 17th in November.

2:59:56>> Makes sense.

2:59:58>> Um all right, let's see. Open forum. Is

3:00:01there anyone who wish to speak in open

3:00:02forum? Yes, ma'am. Um

3:00:08timer, please.

3:00:10Joanne, excuse me, Joanne Armeni, 7

3:00:13Meadow Road. Um, at the last meeting you

3:00:16all discussed the downtown improvement

3:00:17plan and the action because the final

3:00:20report was in and the action item was

3:00:23that um, Kristen was supposed to take

3:00:25all of that and mesh it together and you

3:00:28didn't discuss it tonight. It's not on

3:00:29the agenda. Wondering what's happening

3:00:31with that.

3:00:40Kevin Barry, 8 Indian Pond Road. Uh

3:00:43first uh two comments. First, as far as

3:00:45the open forum policy, totally disagree

3:00:47with what the statements were made.

3:00:49First and foremost, you violated your

3:00:50own policy. You never acknowledged that

3:00:53the decision was made behind closed

3:00:54doors. You came with that decision.

3:00:56There was no consensus. You obviously

3:00:57discussed it beforehand and made that

3:00:59decision and ultimately put it at the

3:01:00end of the meeting for this meeting as

3:01:02well as the next meeting. This is was in

3:01:03violation of the existing policy.

3:01:07Lastly on that topic is it discourages

3:01:10participation by putting at the end of

3:01:12meeting. So there are other meetings

3:01:14that actually put time frames on when

3:01:16they're meeting when the different

3:01:17topics are obviously a little bit

3:01:18difficult when you have hearings. Yes.

3:01:59at this meeting and you didn't. I think

3:02:01it's disrespectful to the select board

3:02:02that has made comments. They're waiting

3:02:04for your comments to figure out what

3:02:06their process is. They've already given

3:02:08yours. And also residents, you know,

3:02:11it's an overwhelming response and

3:02:14polarizing topic and you're dragging

3:02:16your heels on pursuing with this.

3:02:18There's no reason why you can't discuss

3:02:20this tonight. You decided not put on an

3:02:22agenda item for whatever reason. That's

3:02:24disrespectful to the residents. And

3:02:27lastly, but not is I'm tired of the

3:02:30arrogance when I'm here. I'm a resident.

3:02:33Okay, you don't have to like what I have

3:02:34to say, but the arrogance, the smirks,

3:02:36the looking down and not paying

3:02:37attention is ridiculous. I'm glad you're

3:02:40here to court attend. Thank you.

3:02:45>> Is there anything else?

3:02:46>> I move that we adjourn the meeting.

3:02:48>> Yeah. What?

3:02:48>> I move that we adjourn the meeting.

3:02:51>> Minute.

3:02:54>> We have nothing else.

3:02:55>> No, the open forum is still open because

3:02:58we have the 10 minutes and Joanne, you

3:03:00wish to say

3:03:01>> that is three minutes per person.

3:03:02>> What?

3:03:04>> What?

3:03:05>> What?

3:03:05>> If Joanna wants to say something,

3:03:14>> Joanne Aramini, Southern Mail Road. I

3:03:16would just like the public to know in

3:03:18case they don't that one of the goals

3:03:20for the select board is to review the

3:03:23town charter. And as we work through

3:03:25that process and it ultimately will end

3:03:28at town meeting, I would like the public

3:03:30to remember how you all act and how you

3:03:34make your decisions. Many come across as

3:03:37behind

3:03:38back doors

3:03:40and how you treat the public. Thank you.

3:03:43>> All right. Could I have a motion? I move

3:03:45that we adjourn the meeting.

3:03:46>> Second. All in favor?

3:03:48>> Yeah.

3:03:49>> Thank you.

3:03:50>> Have a good night everybody.

3:03:51>> Good night.