2026-11-05 - Policy Committee on Environmental and Natural Resource Management

00:42Hello, is someone there?

00:48>> Who's speaking?

00:49>> Who's speaking, please?

00:50>> Identify yourself.

00:54>> Oh, is somebody on Zoom?

00:57Yeah, we're about to start. Hold on.

01:58Good afternoon.

02:01Welcome the 11th session of the Policy

02:04Committee on Environmental and Natural

02:05Resource Management.

02:09Uh my name is Jen Kagiwada. I'll be the

02:11chair for today.

02:13Today is November 5th, 2026

02:16and the time is 12:38. We're here in the

02:22West Hawaii Civic Center and with me in

02:25chambers right now

02:27are council members Kimble,

02:30Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Korkowits,

02:34and Onishi.

02:36Uh council member

02:39Connie Lee Kleinfelder will be joining

02:42us shortly and council member Viegas is

02:46absent today.

02:48We just have the one item on our agenda

02:51today. So if we could, Mr. Clerk, get

02:55started with any public testimony,

02:58please.

02:59>> Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

03:01We have one certifier for you via Zoom.

03:04I believe it is Dell Otsuka.

03:06Dell, at this time, if you'd like to

03:07provide your testimony, you can unmute.

03:09I see you are calling in, so you'll have

03:11to hit star six on your phone to unmute.

03:16Introduce yourself and you'll have three

03:18minutes.

03:20>> Uh good afternoon. This is Dell Otsuka

03:22from Keaukaha.

03:24I'm calling in to oppose Bill 183 for

03:26many reasons.

03:28Um

03:31for the

03:32it's it's as if it's still not ready to

03:35be

03:36heard or even voted on

03:39because

03:41the 11th hour is just here

03:43and Bill 183 looks like from your

03:47agenda, official agenda, it's not ready.

03:50You know, communication 1022

03:53.7 from

03:55uh

03:56sorry, I'm just

03:58Anyway, um

04:01looking at

04:03explicitly

04:05transmitted by environmental director

04:07Girvin.

04:08Only on the 28th,

04:10just a few days ago, it tells me

04:12that there is no stable, verifiable

04:15data.

04:17Why does the administration still

04:18scrambling to patch holes, submit

04:20supplemental tax amendment

04:22under this communication 1022.4

04:26and transmitting any late stage director

04:28recommendations right up to the 11th are

04:31forcing a massive utility rate hike

04:33to spike

04:34standard residential sewer fees from $52

04:38to $125.

04:40And this year alone, the DEM has

04:43submitted many resolutions

04:45totaling over $3 million.

04:47There's three out of the six that just

04:49proposed this month

04:51that um

04:53is over $3 million and it's for

04:54equipment.

04:57They don't have

04:58staffing to operate.

05:00You know, I brought this up last year at

05:01the salary commission.

05:03This department had 195 vacancies in

05:06October 2025.

05:08I know they don't have drivers. They

05:10don't have operators. They don't have

05:11mechanics.

05:13So

05:14to go ahead and pass this with the

05:15request for this money is

05:17is unheard of.

05:19So I oppose that.

05:21And again, because it's too punitive

05:23and it's damaging for

05:26a lot of the residents. And I made note

05:28in my testimony too, when you compare it

05:31to the salaries

05:32that the council is getting paid,

05:35it's

05:36we're looking to we have money for the

05:38salaries. We have money for these

05:40requests, but we don't have money

05:43for the critical things that we need

05:44now. And we're

05:46actually going to

05:48impose these fees for the under bill

05:51147.

05:53>> 30 seconds, please.

05:55>> Yeah, thank you. So the correction I

05:57wanted to make because I just

05:59submit testimony was on the amount

06:01of the raises.

06:03It was $880,140

06:08I quoted for the month, but that's your

06:09salary for the year.

06:11And as of next year, July on the first

06:14the raises your total

06:16your total salaries will be 915,408

06:21and that's not with benefits. So I'm

06:23just saying with all the monies that

06:25were already

06:27>> Thank you so much for your testimony,

06:28Dell. Your three minutes are up, so

06:30we're going to have to move on.

06:32And with that, chair, those are all the

06:33testifiers you have.

06:35>> Thank you so much, Riley.

06:37Mr. Go ahead.

06:39>> Before I read the matter in, vice chair,

06:40just like to acknowledge that there in

06:41our are some errors on this agenda. It

06:44should not read that bill 183 draft two

06:47establishes a new service class rate for

06:50hotels

06:51because the amendments in 1022.4

06:54removed that. So that should also not be

06:56on the agenda. I just like to

06:58acknowledge that I'm error and apologize

07:00to the council for that. And should this

07:02matter move forward, of course, we will

07:04revise the summary to remove

07:07the reference to the service rates for

07:09hotels.

07:10With that, may I read in the item?

07:12>> Yes, please. Go ahead.

07:13>> Bill 183 draft to amend chapter one 21

07:15articles one and four of the Hawaii

07:17County Code 1983 2016 edition as amended

07:20relating to sewer service charges,

07:22increase wastewater service rates, and

07:24we have communication 1022.8

07:26from Environmental Management Director

07:28Daniel Gurbun dated up to October 28,

07:302026 transmitting comments and

07:32recommendations. And you do have a

07:34motion on the floor currently

07:36made by council member Hustus and

07:38seconded by council member Galimba to

07:41forward bill 183 to the council with a

07:43favorable recommendation.

07:45>> Thank you so much. Director Gurbun, if

07:47you and your staff want to come forward

07:48here, I will just state that

07:51in addition to requesting that director

07:55Gurbun weigh in on this bill, we had

07:58asked that the Environmental Management

08:01Committee also weigh in on this bill.

08:03They have not done so as of yet.

08:06Um, I know this was to the call of the

08:08Chair, so I don't know if the Chair

08:10wants to

08:11say why we're hearing this when we

08:12haven't heard back from the

08:14Environmental Management Committee yet

08:16or what the plan is there. I don't know

08:19um, yeah, what's going on. It just says

08:21they weren't able to reach quorum, but

08:23we are going ahead without their input.

08:26Um, do you want to Okay, go ahead Chair

08:28Inaba, go ahead.

08:29>> Thank you Chair. Um, we did re-agendize

08:32this. The the um, Environmental

08:35Management Commission currently doesn't

08:37have quorum to meet.

08:39Uh, and per our county code, we can

08:42continue with discussions on this bill.

08:45Uh, I do want to point out to the

08:46membership that should we make any kind

08:48of significant amendment, it would

08:51require us to re-refer both to the

08:53department and to the Environmental

08:55Management Commission. So

08:57uh, the 45-day timeline that is afforded

09:01to the department and the commission

09:03ends on November 20th.

09:06Uh, and after that time we can take

09:09final action, but again we're in

09:11committees right now, so if this body

09:13chooses we can move it forward um, such

09:16that

09:16it could pass during this council term.

09:19I'm happy to take any questions if there

09:21are any.

09:22>> Okay.

09:23Um,

09:24Director, uh, want to turn it over to

09:27you, but I just have a quick question.

09:28When we discussed moving this on to the

09:31Environmental Management Commission,

09:33were you aware that they did not have

09:35quorum and have not had quorum for

09:37several months?

09:39>> Uh, yes, I was aware of that.

09:41>> Okay. It would have been great if you

09:43had spoken up at that time so that we

09:45could uh, know what was going on here.

09:47Um, it sounds like the administration

09:50wasn't able to do anything to rectify

09:52that situation um, yet. I hope they're

09:56working on it, um, but yeah, it sounds

09:59like we we we did not get their input

10:03and and I guess you knew we probably

10:05wouldn't get their input at the time.

10:07So um, I I that you know, you can

10:09communicate with us in the future so

10:11that uh we don't waste our time like

10:12this. But yes, please go ahead. Um

10:16where do you want to take this at this

10:17time? Do you want to Is there anything

10:19you want to explain or do you want to

10:21share your communication?

10:27>> Well, I'm I'm sorry. I

10:29Uh you asking if I want to make a

10:32comment towards

10:33proceeding with the bill?

10:35>> Yeah. And you have communication 1022.8

10:39with your

10:40um very brief uh recommendations. I was

10:43just wondering if you wanted to share

10:45about that.

10:46>> I believe I've already shared some

10:48written testimony with regard to this.

10:51But yes, we would like to proceed every

10:53every month we go another month without

10:56being able to increase our rate

10:58structure

10:59is another month that we run deficit.

11:02So we would like to get moving towards

11:05uh catching up with that as soon as is

11:07possible.

11:09>> Okay.

11:10And that's all? All right. Um I'm

11:12wondering if you can provide I know in

11:15your comments that you said that you

11:16were okay with the the changes um but

11:21and that the uh general fund will take

11:23up the slack for whatever is not now

11:27being charged.

11:29Um do you have any feedback on that?

11:33How much that will be?

11:36>> I'm sorry. I'm having difficulty hearing

11:38you. I'd be happy to answer your

11:39question. I'm just trying to figure out

11:40what you asked.

11:42>> How much is the general fund going to be

11:44responsible for?

11:46>> Oh, in my opinion,

11:48uh the the

11:49department the division should be

11:52self-sustaining

11:54that we shouldn't be withdrawing any

11:56money at all from the general fund.

11:59>> Okay. I'm going to leave it up to the

12:01the body to ask questions or make

12:02comments and then we'll come back to

12:04that.

12:05Uh councilmember Onishi, please go

12:06ahead.

12:09>> [clears throat]

12:09>> So

12:11I just received a document.

12:15License agreement number 411.

12:19Do you folks have that in front of you?

12:24>> I'm sorry. No, we do not have that in

12:25front of us at this time.

12:27>> This came from you guys' office.

12:31>> Yes.

12:40>> Uh no, and I do not have it either.

12:42>> So how can and I got to bring up

12:44corporation council.

12:48>> I don't think any of us have this

12:49document, so if you can maybe just

12:51briefly explain what it is, that'd be

12:52great.

12:53>> It's an agreement between DOH

12:55and um and the county of Hawaii, which

12:58was dated in 1997.

13:15>> Good afternoon. Jay Yoshimoto, assistant

13:17corporation council.

13:18>> Thank you, Mr. Yoshimoto.

13:20So my question is

13:23the deputy for DEM

13:25the deputy for DEM

13:28didn't provide the director

13:31with this document.

13:33License number

13:35411.

13:36What

13:38I mean he doesn't even know about this.

13:40I mean what's so what's going on within

13:42the communication between your office

13:45and Environmental Management's office?

13:47>> Yeah, Ms. Melen Lacy has

13:49committee members know she advises

13:52uh Department of Environmental

13:53Management. I'm not sure what she

13:55communicated to

13:58Mr. Griven. So I can't answer that. I

14:00don't have any personal knowledge as to

14:01that. I do know that

14:02um

14:03this document was provided to me

14:05yesterday, which I sent to you

14:07>> Right.

14:08>> yesterday.

14:08>> And and so but then director just said

14:10he doesn't know nothing about it. So we

14:12know

14:13your deputy didn't

14:16relay any information to him.

14:19>> Yeah, I cannot answer that.

14:20>> [laughter]

14:20>> I know, I know, but but so I'm just

14:22saying

14:24Director, you have a comment?

14:27>> Oh, I didn't say I don't I know anything

14:29about it. I did say that I do not have

14:31it with me.

14:32>> Yeah, but you know about it then.

14:35Do you know about this document?

14:38>> I know about it, but I don't believe

14:39that it's pertinent to the

14:42to the rate structure that we're here to

14:43discuss today.

14:45>> But I look at it because of the previous

14:47agreements that was done within the

14:49department the different

14:51agencies.

14:53It does in one way

14:55pertain to some of these rate increases

14:57in certain areas.

15:02>> Can you address that?

15:05Uh, if the question is whether this

15:08license

15:10easement

15:11is

15:12relevant to the sewer

15:14the bill.

15:16My understanding is Mr. Girvin is saying

15:18that it's not relevant because the sewer

15:20the sewer bill is stands by itself.

15:22>> Yeah, no, I understand it. But okay, so

15:24we're doing a rate increase. That's what

15:26you asking the council to approve,

15:28right?

15:29But what happened is that

15:31right now

15:33there's a conflict of understanding

15:36within what is already happening.

15:39Right? And then there's now documents

15:41that are coming up legal documents with

15:43agreements

15:45right? That's not clear.

15:48Right? Because it's like

15:50we had a first document 1991, then the

15:52next document is 1997. This is 2026.

15:59So and and now we just getting this 1997

16:02documents like just yesterday.

16:05So this whole time

16:08I and I and I cannot

16:11I cannot

16:12put I guess the responsibility on the

16:15present administration because this was

16:18done in 1997 or 1991.

16:21So we don't know what the intent Well,

16:25in 1991, we know that

16:27the intent of what was agreed.

16:31Then supposedly or it is stating that it

16:34expired.

16:36But then now in 1997,

16:38they have a new document kind of the

16:41same

16:42relating to 1991

16:44but without certain conditions and so

16:46forth, right?

16:48But we don't know what was the intent

16:52when these documents was drawn up.

16:54I mean, like I'm saying in 1997,

16:57right? Because we were never there.

17:00So

17:01question is does the department through

17:04other records

17:05have any knowledge

17:08of what the intent was with 1997's

17:11agreement?

17:15>> Can Chair may I interrupt with a point

17:17of information?

17:18>> Sure. Go ahead.

17:19>> Mr. Onishi, did

17:21from whom did you get these documents?

17:23I'm I'd like to be following this

17:25conversation. I actually haven't seen

17:27them. Were they sent to all of the

17:28council members?

17:29>> No, this was just like I said I just got

17:31it from

17:32from the from Corporation company

17:34>> you Would you mind giving us a little

17:35bit of context about what they say so I

17:37can follow the discussion here?

17:38>> basically in 1991, it was an agreement

17:42between the county and DHHL in the

17:44writer entry to put in the sewer lines

17:48from Puhi pump station

17:51back to the new wastewater facility. And

17:53correct me if I'm wrong,

17:55director,

17:57if if I'm

17:58what you call

18:00if I make any mistake.

18:02So then the agreement was to expire one

18:05year after.

18:06But there was a condition in this

18:09agreement in 1991

18:12for the homesteaders in Kukuau

18:14won't get charged any sewer fees until

18:17the critical areas in Hilo is all hooked

18:20up.

18:22So, like I said, this document was

18:24expired in one year after 1991. So, in

18:271992 expired.

18:29But the critical areas in Hilo was never

18:32hooked up. Until today, they don't know

18:34the department

18:36what is the critical areas in Hilo.

18:38Cuz I've asked them multiple times.

18:41Okay?

18:43So, in the agreement, like I said, it

18:45was supposed to have the homesteaders

18:48waived of their sewer fees until this

18:50happens.

18:51So now,

18:53presently, they're all getting charged.

18:57Okay?

18:58Then

18:59looking back, we said, okay, is there

19:01any other documents, right?

19:04Until yesterday, we never had this 1997

19:07document, which is now it's the license

19:10agreement

19:12um number 411 which giving

19:15the Department of Public Works

19:16Wastewater Division

19:19the authority to go into the property to

19:21maintain and repair any sewer lines

19:26that is existing right now.

19:29Okay?

19:30But it doesn't

19:32also have like the conditions that they

19:34had in 1991.

19:38Okay? So that's why I'm asking

19:40what was the intent

19:42in 1997's document if it just covers

19:46where that write a entry, but now they

19:49give them a license instead of write a

19:51entry to come into the into the

19:53homestead to maintain and repair any

19:56sewer lines that gets damaged.

19:59So that's what we have right now. But

20:02now we're in 2026.

20:05Right? So this document too is kind of

20:07like an old document.

20:10So my question is and well goes back to

20:13the rates because now we're going to

20:14raise the rates.

20:16The homesteaders which had previously,

20:19many many years ago, had the the

20:22department made an agreement with the

20:23county that they're not going to be

20:24charged.

20:26And right now they are being charged and

20:28now with this rate increase, they're

20:30going to be charged more.

20:32So what [clears throat] I'm trying to

20:33find out is to clarify

20:37all these agreements that we had prior,

20:40right? Because some of the homesteaders

20:43are basing their

20:45I guess

20:47um

20:48fight against

20:50um the the increases

20:52is because of this agreement.

20:57Yeah.

20:58Until today, the departments that I've

21:02been dealing with

21:05have told me that the 1991 is expired,

21:09which it says in here, but then there's

21:11a 1997

21:13document we just found out.

21:17So for me,

21:19I don't want to see this moving forward

21:21until we get all this straightened out.

21:23And and

21:26my understanding is that

21:29even like in I don't know if Ms. Colimba

21:31knows or or whatever or she can give

21:33more information about with the new

21:36wastewater for Nali'i and Pāhala, right?

21:41Isn't there some discussion about the

21:43fees for them?

21:45Do you know anything about that?

21:48Chair, can I refer to Ms. Colimba?

21:53>> Councilmember Colimba, do you have an

21:54answer that you want to do for that?

21:57>> Oh, you're right.

21:58>> You need to do your mic.

22:00>> Could you explain um

22:02anything I don't understand what your

22:04question is.

22:04>> so so you know, once I guess it gets

22:08it gets working, the wastewater,

22:11they're going to be charged sewer fees.

22:13>> Right.

22:14>> Is there any any like negotiations or

22:17any talk about

22:19the charging of the sewer fees to to

22:21those residents?

22:23>> From what I've understood and how it's

22:25been communicated to the community

22:27they'll charged the regular

22:30sewer fee is the same as everyone else

22:32in the county.

22:33>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay, good.

22:35Okay.

22:36So that's so that's my discussion about

22:39why I want this sewer fees to be

22:43postponed or to move back to

22:47the commission.

22:48Cuz as Ms. Kagiwada Kagiwada mentioned

22:52about the 45 days

22:54and

22:56they they they supposedly what I

22:57understand supposed to be trying to get

22:59quorum cuz all they need is one more

23:01person because they have four but five

23:03vacancies

23:05and they need just one more person to

23:06have that

23:08commission to look over this and discuss

23:11of these these rates increases.

23:14Right?

23:15Now, another question to corporation

23:17council is do we need to move this

23:19forward out of committee or we cannot or

23:22we can like I said refer it back to the

23:25commission, have administration find

23:27that one more person

23:29so that they can have the discussion at

23:31the commission, right? Environmental

23:33commission.

23:34And then will it will it affect us

23:37moving forward after that with the new

23:39council?

23:41>> So there's a lot to unpack there. Let me

23:43start

23:44by trying to simplify it. So um

23:48do you have to move it forward? That's

23:50up to the committee and the council,

23:52right?

23:53Um the 45 day

23:55um

23:55expiration date as indicated by council

23:58chair Inaba

24:00is on or about November 20th, 21st

24:03thereabouts based on the information

24:04that we know.

24:06Um so the code provides that the council

24:08cannot take final action on until after

24:11the expiration of the 45 days or when

24:13the commission environmental management

24:15commission provides its input. So it

24:18looks like now for all practical

24:19purposes that

24:21the commission will not be able to

24:23render a recommendation due to quorum.

24:25>> Right.

24:26>> Right?

24:26Um

24:27[snorts] planning

24:30um looking at the council rules, the

24:33committees dissolve at the end of the

24:35council term. So it is our

24:37recommendation that for this bill to

24:39continue, um it should be passed up to

24:43council because then it belongs to the

24:45council. Council

24:47uh can then

24:48hold further hearings on it. There's no

24:49harm in moving it forward. This body

24:51knows that whether it's a positive or

24:53negative recommendation, it still moves

24:55forward to the county council. The

24:57danger in

24:59allowing it to stay in committee is that

25:01if the committee technically is

25:03dissolved at the end of the term,

25:05>> Right.

25:05>> then the committee no longer exists.

25:07Unless, of course, the council rules

25:09interprets interpretation is that it'll

25:11be assigned to whatever

25:14next appropriate committee would be. I

25:16don't know what the past practice has

25:18been as far as that is concerned.

25:20Therefore, the recommendation would be

25:21to move it to council because at that

25:23time, if the council wants to pass this

25:25measure during this term, there's

25:27sufficient time to do it in this term if

25:30it moves it forward today.

25:32>> Okay, you mentioned earlier if the if

25:35so it's supposed to be commit uh at the

25:37commission.

25:39Now, if the council

25:41makes any

25:43major

25:44>> substantial

25:45>> substantial. So if we pass it, is that

25:47substantial?

25:49>> No, because the bill is is has been

25:51already amended. That amended bill was

25:53sent to the commission for review. So as

25:56long as there's no substantial change, I

25:57think Cherry Knott had mentioned that,

25:59um

26:00then we're fine in moving forward. If

26:02there are substantial amendments, then

26:04of course that would have to go back to

26:05the commission.

26:06>> and then going backwards, so if

26:09we don't do anything with this right now

26:12and it goes to the new

26:15um

26:15council, right?

26:17Department or administration just got to

26:19reintroduce this again, correct?

26:22>> Well, I don't know about reintroduce it

26:23because the bill is still alive.

26:25>> No, if we go back to committee, like

26:27like we leave it here

26:30and we don't take action and then the

26:32term ends, the new council comes in,

26:35they're going to have to re- reintroduce

26:38this

26:39bill, this proposal to the new council,

26:41right? Committee.

26:43>> I wouldn't use the word reintroduce

26:45because I know they would explain

26:47because the new council members wouldn't

26:48have had the benefit of the council

26:50members that are continuing on,

26:51>> Right.

26:52>> right? So the answer is yes, they would

26:54have to

26:55um as part of their due diligence

26:56explain it to the new council members as

26:59well as the current council members that

27:00are continuing on.

27:01>> Council Council member Onishi, your time

27:03has expired. I'm going to go on and we

27:05can come back to you. Okay. Okay.

27:07Council member Inaba.

27:08>> Uh thank you. Just um to clarify I think

27:10your question council member Onishi

27:12regarding what happens if it's anywhere

27:15in the process beyond having been passed

27:18or a final action having been taken, it

27:20would continue into

27:22the next term. So it would just be put

27:24into the appropriate committee based on

27:26the new organization or at the next

27:29council reading if it's passed out of

27:31first reading let's say, it would be at

27:33second reading in the next council term.

27:35Thank you, chair.

27:36>> Thank you for that clarification, chair

27:38Inaba.

27:39Anybody else on this bill?

27:43Council member

27:47>> Okay. I think we had some questions the

27:49last

27:50meeting.

27:51We were very clear.

27:55Director of

27:57Oh we had we had questions at the last

27:59hearing [clears throat and cough] before

28:01this was sent to the EMC committee.

28:03>> Yes.

28:04>> What you got for me?

28:06>> Can we ask Robin to come up, please?

28:14>> I was worried about you Robin because

28:15you weren't here for the last hearing

28:17and I said you were on vacation but

28:19that's the second time that you were on

28:21vacation which we had a month-long

28:22vacation. So either a beautiful vacation

28:25or I was concerned I got to call your

28:27sister.

28:30>> I apologize for missing those meetings.

28:33Um

28:34so in response to your questions, we

28:37submitted um,

28:39communication 102 2.9.

28:43Um,

28:45and

28:46I'm hoping we addressed your questions

28:48there.

28:49Um,

28:50>> Okay.

28:51>> we provided attached to the memo

28:55is just kind of a recap. A lot of it is

28:59in the rate study, but just to kind of

29:01summarize it in one sheet.

29:03Um, it provides the um expenditures and

29:07revenues, the actuals from fiscal year

29:1024 25.

29:12Um, includes the preliminary

29:15um numbers for fiscal year 25 26 which

29:19were not available in the rate study.

29:22And then um it shows the projected

29:25expenses and revenues um for the future

29:28years for the five-year period covered

29:30by the rate study.

29:34>> Okay.

29:34So the rate study projection then

29:37shows a pretty big step up from 26 27 to

29:4027 28.

29:43And the sewer rates are in line. The

29:46sewer rates that are being proposed are

29:47in line with meeting this budget.

29:50>> Yes.

29:51>> Okay.

30:00>> These expenditures um

30:03you know include projected increases for

30:05salaries, inflation, um

30:08new positions for the new wastewater

30:11treatment plants that will be coming

30:12online in Pahala and Naalehu.

30:15Um, as well as increasing um

30:18the repairs to facilities

30:21uh to be able to do uh

30:24more repair projects um and

30:27you know try to reduce the strain on the

30:29general on the capital improvement

30:31program funding.

30:34>> What what is the less projected

30:37underspend category that was not existed

30:41in 2024-25 or this year,

30:44uh but is being pushed out as about 3

30:46million a year going forward.

30:49>> So um when the consultants did this rate

30:52study um that's something that they put

30:55in for us recognizing that

30:58we

30:59don't spend 100% of our budget every

31:02year. You know you can't really hit that

31:05nail right on the head. Um there's

31:07always

31:09going to be some vacancies um and other

31:11reasons

31:12we don't spend the full amount of the

31:15budget. So

31:16um

31:17the rate study acknowledges that and

31:21reduce the amount that

31:23the rates cover

31:25is the net amount um after factoring in

31:28that

31:29um underspend.

31:31>> Is that is that normal? Is did you see

31:33that in 2024-25 or 2025-26 this year

31:36that you're underspending on your total

31:37budget?

31:39>> Yes and the

31:402024-25 and 25-26 numbers are actual.

31:45So um whereas the future numbers are

31:48budgeted

31:51amounts. So we wouldn't have a

31:53um

31:55underspend listed.

32:02>> It's a big step up between your actuals

32:04in 2024-25 your projected

32:07for this budget year what we budgeted

32:09for this fiscal year in now

32:11uh 26-27 actually decreasing

32:15and then in 27-28 seeing a 7 million

32:18dollar increase. What what is the

32:23what am I not

32:25seeing here

32:26that's causing that spike and this is

32:29>> You're looking at

32:31FY 25-26 to 26-27.

32:34>> Well I'm looking at 26-27 which is a 21

32:37million dollar

32:38stream and then 27 28

32:44No, I'm sorry.

32:53No, I'm sorry. I'm looking at this

32:54backwards.

32:56>> Um

32:57what's not shown on here for 26 27 um

33:01the gap is made up by fund balance.

33:05There's an existing fund balance that

33:07was used um

33:10for fiscal year 26 27.

33:12>> Oh, okay.

33:16And with the re study projection that

33:18fund balance would not be needed?

33:23>> Yeah, I I guess you could look at the

33:25projected understand as the fund balance

33:28rolling forward from year to year.

33:31>> Okay.

33:35Okay, I need a minute to look this over.

33:38Thank you. Thank you for submitting

33:39this. Um thank you for right now, Thank

33:42you.

33:42>> Okay, thank you.

33:43Anybody else?

33:48No? Okay. I'll I'll ask a couple

33:51questions and then maybe if um

33:53council member Connie Lee Kleinfelter

33:55has a follow-up we can we can go back to

33:57them.

33:58So I just want to be clear um your

34:02transmittal communication 10228

34:07director

34:08that is

34:09you are responding to bill 183 draft to

34:13the amended version cuz it doesn't say

34:15that here. So I want to make that clear.

34:18>> That is correct.

34:19>> Okay. So you are saying that with the

34:22amended version that we made um that

34:26you support bill 183

34:29>> Correct.

34:30>> And that

34:3350% of the expense with the remainder

34:36being subsidized by the general fund and

34:39that's reflected here in this chart

34:41which is these

34:43these amounts that

34:45Council Member

34:46Kleinfelter was just pointing to the

34:49almost 4 million

34:51in 26 27 and the almost 7 million in 27

34:5428 coming from the general fund

34:57and then starting to decrease well 5

35:00million in 28 29

35:03a little over a million in 29 30 and

35:06then being self-sufficient by 30 31 is

35:10that correct and and onward from there?

35:13>> That is correct.

35:14>> Okay.

35:15All right. I just want to be clear about

35:16that.

35:19Yeah. Given given everything else that's

35:21going on right now we need to be very

35:24I think cautious about our

35:27commitments for these

35:29millions of dollars that we are

35:31spending.

35:33All right.

35:35Council members anybody else want a

35:37second go around Council Member

35:40Kleinfelter please go ahead.

35:41>> Thank you. Okay okay Ms. Bowlen. So I'm

35:43looking at this document okay so

35:45the top is

35:48expenses

35:50minus the less projected underspend so

35:53expenditures will be covered by the new

35:55rate structure.

35:57The bottom section is wastewater service

36:00revenue under existing rates

36:05and then revenues from projected rate

36:07increases but there's still a general

36:09fund transfer into in the rate study

36:12projections so we're not stepping away

36:14from the general fund transfer into the

36:18DEM

36:20sewer rate sewer fund correct?

36:23>> Not until fiscal year 30 31

36:29then then that's when

36:33we will not need the general funds

36:35transfer anymore.

36:38>> And then the

36:39thank you thank you thank you thank you.

36:40So the top part the equipment

36:42replacement fund repairs to facilities

36:46last year was $646,000

36:492627 is being projected at $4,385

36:54and then a

36:56a solid and consistent spend upwards.

36:59What is that

37:00what's that difference in the spend on

37:03repairs to facilities? Is that

37:05wastewater treatment? What is that?

37:08>> That is various repairs to all of our

37:10facilities

37:12including the collection system as part

37:15of the

37:17AOC. We need to

37:20assess our sewer lines and make the

37:22necessary repairs so

37:25that will help to fund some of those

37:27repairs

37:29and

37:31try to reduce the

37:33the drain on the capital improvement

37:35program funding.

37:39>> Okay, so if I compared 2627 to 24 and 25

37:48it's a huge step up from your actual

37:50expenditures for equipment replacement

37:53and fund repairs to facilities

37:56from $645,000

37:58to 400 and sorry, $4,385,000

38:05as well as equipment costs

38:08tripling

38:11for the comparison if I look back to

38:13last year and next year, next fiscal

38:16year.

38:18And so the projected rates

38:24it's just a little bit. It's a little

38:25bit all over the place as far as what

38:26we're projecting.

38:29>> What we're projecting

38:31is where we need to get to.

38:34the

38:36previous actuals are kind of, you know,

38:38where we're at now

38:40but we're

38:42working really hard. We've got

38:45procurement started for three million

38:48um

38:49in the equipment.

38:51And we've got a number of projects in

38:54the works that need to be done.

39:01Yeah, we can bring Kelly up to talk

39:03about the projects that are in the

39:04pipelines.

39:05>> Okay. Uh on on equipment

39:08uh a good part of the money that we are

39:10spending this year that we had not spent

39:13previously previously

39:15is for generators uh portable generators

39:19and portable pumps

39:21uh at our pump stations.

39:23Uh if we can't pump the water, the pump

39:25stations overflow and then we wind up

39:27with a spill.

39:29So we have

39:31um

39:33if if they lose electrical power,

39:35we have a group of portable electric

39:38generators that we bring in connect to

39:40the facility so the facility can operate

39:43with its normal pumps and keep keep the

39:46wastewater flowing.

39:48We had

39:50dwindled our supply of portable

39:52generators down to an absolute minimum

39:55and even the ones we had were not

39:57reliable.

39:58So we have this year

40:00uh ordered quite a few new generators

40:03and our generators typically cost

40:05between $300,000 and $500,000

40:09each.

40:11[clears throat] Uh in addition to that

40:14uh for our pump stations, if the pumps

40:17fail,

40:18then just supplying electricity doesn't

40:20solve that problem. So we also have to

40:23have portable pumps that can be brought

40:26in and temporarily hooked up to an

40:27individual pump station.

40:29And we have bought quite a few new

40:31portable pumps this year also and

40:35they're in the same price range of a

40:37quarter million dollars and up for some

40:39of these pumps. So that's where a lot of

40:41this money has gone this year

40:43that we had not spent in previous years

40:47and which allowed our to get

40:51obsolete, old, and unreliable. In

40:53addition to that, we are doing some

40:56projects this year which I will ask

40:58Kelly to address.

41:01>> Before we do

41:04So the equipment that we haven't the

41:07equipment funding we haven't spent in

41:09the past

41:16are we consistently

41:19running it about 10% of your total

41:21budget? Is that right?

41:24>> I'm sorry, something about 10%?

41:28The the question is

41:31>> Can you speak up a little? He can't hear

41:32you.

41:32>> Are are we consistently running it at

41:3410% underspend on your current budget?

41:38>> Well, no, there's

41:40>> Cuz we're stepping up

41:42about $2 million

41:43for your equipment.

41:45That's your projection.

41:47>> We don't plan to underspend at all.

41:50>> But you have in the past.

41:52>> What they have in the past.

41:53>> By how much?

41:55>> I'm sorry. I I can't I don't know the

41:57answer to that question, but our intent

41:59is

42:00that

42:01when we desperately need equipment,

42:03we're going to use what resources we

42:05have available to

42:06buy that equipment.

42:09>> Okay.

42:12>> Sure. Just to follow up on that

42:14question, um we're

42:16in the past we were not under a legal

42:19mandate to maintain and properly operate

42:22our infrastructure. And so the

42:25the game has changed um and we are under

42:28the administrative order on consent to

42:30implement an asset management program

42:34and this shifts us from reactive

42:36maintenance to preventative maintenance

42:38and we need a budget to support that.

42:41Um so speaking directly to procurements

42:45that are currently underway in regards

42:48to these projects, um one of the things

42:50to the asset management system we're

42:52we're required to do is um take an

42:54inventory of all of our facilities,

42:57review the condition of those assets,

43:01prioritize those assets, put together an

43:04implementation plan with a schedule that

43:06we will be beholden to complete. And so

43:10we're working towards that. Currently

43:13the projects with the procurement

43:14underway are the emergency procurement

43:18for the Popeye Cove wastewater treatment

43:20plan. We have to replace the clarifiers

43:22that have been broken for many years.

43:25We're working we're working on the Pua

43:28sewage pump station bypass. That's

43:31estimated at a quarter million dollars.

43:34Sorry, I should have said that the

43:35emergency the Popeye Cove was at around

43:38$1 million.

43:40The Pua underground storage tank removal

43:42is a quarter of a million dollars. The

43:45Kualai Mono and Popeye Cove headworks

43:47bar screen are both $800,000

43:51each.

43:52We have to start generating our own

43:56chlorine for disinfection. It's no

44:00longer going to be sold on the island.

44:02We're going to have to purchase multiple

44:03machines

44:05to produce it on site and transport it

44:07around to our other facilities. And

44:10we're looking at between $300,000 to

44:12$500,000

44:14for those machines. We're looking for

44:16grants for that for that money.

44:19We have the Kalaheo wastewater treatment

44:22plant effluent line repair at $50,000.

44:25The Kalaheo wastewater treatment plant

44:27effluent line repair at $50,000.

44:31We have the Banyan and Lani Hau sewer

44:34pump station auto transfer switches at

44:38between $80 and $100,000 each.

44:43We have the Paukaa roof replacement at

44:46$500,000.

44:47And that's just what we are currently

44:50active working on. Those are priority

44:52projects on deck. I would also like to

44:54remind you of the facility plan we

44:57brought before council that had, you

44:59know, extensive projects identified for

45:03the 20-year planning horizon. There's

45:06there's 48 small to medium-sized

45:09projects there that if we can increase

45:13our operations budget and do some of

45:15those projects in-house work, ultimately

45:18you're going to save the money Excuse

45:20me, the county money if we can build

45:22that capacity. But we have to start

45:24somewhere.

45:26So that's what we're trying to do today.

45:30I also wanted to just

45:32while I'm on a roll

45:35speak to how we're going to

45:37get this done. You know, I understand

45:39historically the department has under

45:42spent and as Director Girvin pointed

45:44out, that's not what we're planning to

45:46do, but how are we going to pull this

45:48off when maybe we have struggled in the

45:50past. So some positive things I wanted

45:53to share with the council is

45:55they've recently promoted

45:58Cisco Francisco Villa Villa

46:02to Deputy Chief of the Wastewater

46:05Division. And so he has been the

46:07long-time maintenance supervisor for all

46:10of the facilities.

46:11So I think that's one of the most

46:12positive things that we've done in a

46:14really long time is give the maintenance

46:16man the ability to spend the funds.

46:20I also wanted to share that we've hired

46:22three new engineers and an engineering

46:24support tech and so they will be

46:27supporting the facilities and these

46:29larger projects like the headworks and

46:31the clarifier, things that we can't do

46:33in-house.

46:35That has been a positive step forward.

46:38And again, we have the asset management

46:40system, the the full team right now

46:42who's running reports for us,

46:45identifying what the critical repairs

46:47are. We're meeting with the staff to

46:49prioritize those things on a on a budget

46:53year timeline

46:55Um we're reporting that information to

46:56the EPA who is here last week. And we

46:59spent three days going around in the

47:00facilities and talking about our

47:03improvements and the feedback was that

47:05it's night and day and we've got the

47:07right people in the right positions and

47:10um it's a very positive visit. So I

47:13think we're on the right path um but we

47:16also need the resources to to be

47:18successful.

47:21>> Council member Knight, since this is

47:22your second time around, can I get you

47:24to wrap it up and see if anybody else

47:26wants to join in here too?

47:28>> Yeah, yes. Um

47:31I like what you said

47:33at the very end.

47:36I click back to

47:41we've

47:42and and maybe I'm missing something.

47:46We've been underspending but now we're

47:48budgeting

47:49heavy to start spending.

47:53Is that Is that right?

47:56>> Yeah, the gap you're seeing is the 20

47:58years of deferred maintenance that have

48:00got us into the AOC in the first place

48:02and brought EPA to our door. And so

48:04we're pulling ourselves out of that hole

48:06with our giant capital budget. But in

48:08addition to we need to build a program

48:12that can maintain the infrastructure,

48:15the the billions of dollars that we're

48:16investing in our facilities.

48:20>> One One last question to the director.

48:23What

48:24what mechanism is in place to ensure

48:27that you're spending

48:29if we haven't been doing it in the past?

48:33>> Um

48:34to add to uh

48:36some of the information that Kelly just

48:38provided,

48:39when I came here in November

48:42approximately a year ago,

48:44we had uh 74 vacancies in um in DEM.

48:51[clears throat] As of today, I believe

48:52we have 36 vacancies.

48:55So we are filling in

48:57missing missing people that we had

48:59before. So, we have

49:01um more people to do this work.

49:05Uh another

49:07uh piece of information is that um

49:11we got 70 had 74 vacancies because

49:14people had gone to do other things.

49:17Uh in the in this last year we haven't

49:19lost one single person from the

49:21department to go do something else.

49:24So, we're we're not only bringing in new

49:26people, we're retaining the people that

49:28we already have.

49:30Um

49:32as far as uh

49:34how are we keeping track that we're

49:35going to spend this budget?

49:37Uh Robin is now creating a printout, a

49:40monthly printout

49:42which we distribute amongst the

49:44leadership of the um of the department.

49:48And it's

49:49uh what was the budget for this year and

49:52what is our current status on spending

49:55against that budget for this fiscal

49:57year?

49:58And we are monitoring that month by

50:00month.

50:01And of course the theoretical goal would

50:04be that all of those line items in that

50:07budget printout would be zero by the end

50:10of the fiscal year.

50:13[clears throat] We uh we obviously want

50:14to achieve that.

50:16But we are keeping track of where we are

50:18on what's available to fix some of these

50:21problems we have.

50:23And we're keeping track of it by the

50:24month basis to make sure that money's

50:26committed.

50:29>> I'd like to add um other quarterly

50:32meetings that we've put in place for the

50:35administration to have oversight on the

50:38critical repairs. So, since under the

50:40AOC we're required to assess 100% of our

50:44gravity enforcement mains, we have

50:46quarterly meetings with the line crew as

50:49well as the staff who puts those

50:52projects into contracts or delegates the

50:54repairs. And additionally um we do the

50:57same thing with our asset management

50:59group to make sure our reporting is um

51:02improving to the level where we can

51:04track you know critical repairs versus

51:08work completed versus you know work in

51:10progress um for our for our maintenance

51:13group. So across all facilities and the

51:17collection system we are tracking

51:21critical repairs and that the repairs

51:23are getting delegated, scheduled,

51:26prioritized.

51:28So that's the other thing we're doing.

51:30>> Okay. And director were you aware that

51:32the EMC didn't have quorum

51:35before we sent this to the EMC?

51:37I may have missed the answer to that.

51:39>> I'm I was was I aware of the AOC?

51:42>> The EM the EMC the committee did not

51:44have quorum

51:46when we sent this item to the EMC for

51:48review at the last hearing.

51:50>> before we sent this last correspondence

51:52in yes

51:54but um

51:57they I'm not sure just what the dates

51:59are but they lost the ability to have a

52:01quorum

52:03at about the same time we were beginning

52:05to submit this rate request.

52:08Uh we had been making some presentations

52:11to them

52:13uh so they they knew what we were

52:14talking about, they knew what the

52:16numbers were, they knew what was coming

52:18but then uh they they lost ability to do

52:22quorum and

52:23and um

52:25you know somewhere fairly on in

52:27fairly early on in the process of us

52:30presenting this rate request.

52:33>> Yeah. Thank you. Yield chair.

52:34>> Thank you.

52:35>> I could I add a little clarity to that

52:37because I want to

52:39I want to distinguish between temporary

52:41loss of quorum

52:43and currently there's more of a

52:45permanent loss of quorum [clears throat]

52:47and so they had five members for um up

52:52through September.

52:54Um and so for the meetings in September

52:57or August and September there was a

53:00temporary loss of quorum because people

53:02had to to the meeting that day or they

53:04couldn't make it, you know, before the

53:06meeting was scheduled. But but as of

53:09September 30th, there's more I would I

53:11would say a permanent loss of quorum

53:13where we only have four members.

53:17So that's the timeline on that.

53:20>> Thank you.

53:21Councilmember Rinaba, please go ahead.

53:22>> Just for the record,

53:24whether there was quorum or not, code

53:26required us to send it to the department

53:29and to the commission. So it doesn't

53:31matter. We needed to send it and if we

53:33don't hear back from 40 and 45 days,

53:36we can take final action. Thank you,

53:38Chair.

53:38>> Thank you. And you know, obviously it's

53:41more beneficial to have more information

53:43and we would have liked to have their

53:45input. I think the only thing that maybe

53:47we would have done differently is follow

53:49up with the administration to make sure

53:51they're really actively looking to

53:53replace

53:54some of those members there to make sure

53:56we get back into quorum. But it is up to

53:59them to do that. So we don't have any

54:01control over that.

54:02Thank you.

54:03Anybody else?

54:05Okay. We're going to go ahead and take a

54:07vote at this time

54:10about moving this forward to the full

54:13council with a favorable recommendation.

54:15Just to reiterate

54:18if we want there to be a chance for this

54:21to be

54:24heard with this current body all the way

54:27through,

54:28we need to pass this now and then

54:32if people decide they they don't want to

54:35pass it all the way, we still have

54:36opportunities. Councilmember Galimba,

54:38did you have something to add?

54:40Okay.

54:41All right. At this time, all those in

54:42favor of sending Bill 183 draft two

54:49to the full council with a favorable

54:51recommendation, please say aye.

54:53>> Aye.

54:54>> Any opposed?

54:55>> No.

54:56>> Okay. Roll call, please, Mr. Clerk.

54:58>> On the motion on the floor,

54:59Councilmember Galimba.

55:01>> Aye.

55:02>> Councilor Houstis.

55:03>> Aye.

55:05>> Councilor Rinaba.

55:07>> Aye.

55:09>> Councilor O'Connell Kleinfelter.

55:10>> No.

55:12>> Councilmember Kerkowits.

55:13>> Aye.

55:14>> Councilmember Campbell.

55:15>> Aye.

55:16>> Councilmember Onishi.

55:17>> No.

55:19>> Committee Chair Excuse me, Councilmember

55:21Villegas. Committee Chair Kagiwada.

55:23>> Aye.

55:24>> Committee Chair Kagiwada, you have six

55:25votes in favor with Councilmembers

55:27Connelly, Kleinfelder, and Onishi

55:29opposed, and

55:30Committee Member Villegas absent. The

55:33motion carries.

55:35>> Thank you very much. Thank you

55:36everybody. We will be adjourning and

55:39starting the next meeting in just a few

55:40minutes.

55:45For the record, the time is

55:471:31.

55:49Thank you.

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