2026-10-20 - Policy Committee on Planning Land Use and Economic Development

01:49Aloha and good morning. Welcome to the

01:5233rd session of the Policy Committee on

01:54Planning, Land Use, and Economic

01:56development. Today is Tuesday, October

01:5820th, 2026 and I'm calling this meeting

02:01to order at 10:00 a.m. The committee is

02:04meeting at the West Hawaii Civic Center.

02:07Um present for committee today are

02:08committee members Heather Kimball,

02:11Michelle Galimba, Rebecca Viegas, Matt

02:13Kaneali'i Klein Felder, Fresh Onishi,

02:17James Hustace, and Jennifer Kagiwada. Um

02:20Council Chair Holake Enapa will be

02:22joining us shortly. My name is Ashley

02:23Kirkwood, Chair and Presiding Officer.

02:26At this time, we will be taking

02:28statements from the public.

02:31>> Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Noting

02:33that we do not have testifiers in any of

02:35your remote sites or here

02:37in Kona. We do have a couple testifiers

02:39via Zoom. The first of which is Dwight

02:42Vicente testifying on Bill 204 to be

02:44followed by Layla Bynek.

02:46Dwight, when you're ready to begin, you

02:47can unmute your mic by hitting star six,

02:50introducing yourself, and you'll have 3

02:52minutes.

02:55>> Uh good morning. Dwight Vicente

02:56representing the Hawaiian Kingdom under

02:58the 18

03:0040 Hawaiian Kingdom Constitution and the

03:031848 Mahele.

03:05It's not clear as to what town you're

03:07talking about, but

03:10I would clarify that the scene

03:12Hilo is a port of entry town. It's the

03:15only town on Hawaii Island at this point

03:18in time.

03:20And since this uh

03:22port of entry, you need treaties

03:25to enter this port.

03:27And you also need a treaty if you're

03:29foreigner to be in the town of Hilo.

03:33So,

03:35clarification on the

03:37the uh town you're talking about because

03:40all the other

03:41towns you see around or

03:44settlements you see around the island

03:46are

03:48settlements created by the

03:50agricultural establishment, whether it

03:53the sugar

03:54plantation, Parker Ranch,

03:57and all the even Kona Village

04:00it was established by

04:01coffee.

04:04But it's not recognized under

04:06international law as a

04:08port of entry or as a town

04:12with a port of entry.

04:14So the uh

04:16money cannot be

04:18used to develop or

04:21and natural assistant to improve

04:24buildings and the area

04:26because it's under the Hawaiian Kingdom.

04:28It's not under the

04:30state of Hawaii which is illegitimate

04:32under the Northwest Ordinance of July

04:331787.

04:35And it's not a

04:38uh

04:39equal footing state as stated in the

04:421959 Admission Act

04:44under the Northwest Ordinance. There's

04:46only five equal footing state and

04:48there's no state of Hawaii nor is there

04:50any amendment to the Northwest Ordinance

04:53or to Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2 of

04:56the US Constitution which is limited to

04:59Indian lands prior to September 17 1787.

05:04There is no amendment to those two

05:06documents.

05:08And the Hawaiian Kingdom still exists

05:09today because if you read the history

05:12the ceded land

05:14was annexed as part of the Ohio River

05:16Valley.

05:18And there's over 2.2 million because

05:20there was under King Kalakaua 30-year

05:22lease contract which was not

05:25uh ceded in 1898 because it the lease is

05:28as from 1890 to 1920.

05:31>> 30 seconds, please.

05:32>> the lease has ended and the

05:35crown the government lands still fall

05:36under the jurisdiction of the Hawaiian

05:38Kingdom.

05:39Clarification on the ceded

05:42uh

05:43the Hawaiian

05:45Hawaiian Kingdom has jurisdiction to

05:46question whether the US and its citizens

05:49and other foreign nationals could get

05:51involved in a conspiracy to uh colonize

05:56those 1,750,000

05:58acres and place it under the Northwest

06:01Ordinance of July 1787.

06:03>> Thank you, Dwayne. Your 3 minutes are

06:05up.

06:06>> So, we're going to have to move on.

06:07Thank you for your testimony.

06:09Chair, your next testifier is Lyla

06:11Bynack testifying on Bill 204. Lyla,

06:14when you're ready to begin, please

06:15unmute yourself and you'll have 3

06:17minutes.

06:21>> Aloha County Council and Committee Chair

06:23Ashley Kirkwood. My name is Lyla Bynack.

06:26I live in Puna and I'm a senior at

06:28Hawaii Academy of Arts and Sciences.

06:30Furthermore, I'm an avid supporter of

06:33the town

06:34revitalization program proposed in Bill

06:37204.

06:40It turns out that when people live in

06:42overlooked places, they are more likely

06:44to commit violent crimes, according to

06:46USAfacts.org.

06:48The violent crime rate per 100,000

06:50residents decreased by more than 1,566%

06:55in towns that are highly maintained

06:57versus towns that are neglected.

06:59From my own experience, I find that

07:01walking through areas like downtown

07:03Hilo, which has community artwork and

07:06freshly freshly painted buildings, makes

07:09me feel calmer and more safe.

07:11I love seeing local shops thriving and

07:13people admiring our murals.

07:16People lose pride in their community

07:18whenever it is left unattended. Here in

07:20Hawaii, we want to embrace our buildings

07:22and local business owners.

07:24We want our sense of cultural character

07:26to thrive, and by investing in the

07:28beautification of our towns, we'll do

07:30exactly that. The town revitalization

07:33fund is promising in terms of attracting

07:36new small businesses and supporting

07:38existing local enterprises.

07:40Two matters that are more important than

07:42ever.

07:43I urge you council members to support

07:45this bill and embrace our community.

07:49>> Thank you so much for your testimony and

07:51with that chair, those are all the

07:52testifiers you have.

07:55>> Thank you. At this time, I will be

07:57passing the gavel to my committee vice

07:59chair, Michelle Galimba as the next

08:01couple of items are being generated from

08:04my office. So, let the record reflect

08:06that I have relinquished the

08:07chairmanship at 10:06 a.m.

08:10>> Thank you, Council member Kirkowitz.

08:14>> Um

08:16could we

08:17have communicate Sorry, I'm looking at

08:20the wrong

08:22Um no, could we have the communication

08:2463 be read in?

08:27>> Communication 63 request for formation

08:29of an ad hoc committee to develop policy

08:30recommendations and updates to chapter

08:3211 of the Hoy County code from

08:34Councilmember Ash Ela Kirkowitz dated

08:36December 18, 2024 and this matter is

08:39postponed January 7, 2025. And there's a

08:41motion on the floor by Councilmember

08:43Inouye second by Councilmember Kounis

08:44Clenfelter to close file on

08:45communication 63 and then communication

08:4763.1

08:49from Councilmember Ash Ela Kirkowitz

08:50dated October 2, 2026 transmitting the

08:53chapter 11 permitted action groups

08:55recommendations.

08:58>> Thank you, Councilmember Kirkowitz.

09:00>> Thank you and I just want to make sure I

09:01have procedure correct. Um Mr. Clerk, do

09:04I need to make a motion to close file on

09:06this subsequent communication or just

09:09close file on the entire communication

09:1163?

09:12>> Um neither. Um the motion to close file

09:14on communication 63 covers um all

09:16supplementer supplemental

09:18communications.

09:19So, your motion on the floor includes

09:2163.1.

09:22>> Excellent.

09:22>> Made by Mr. Inouye seconded by

09:25uh Mr. Kounis Clenfelter.

09:26>> Thank you. I just want to make sure that

09:27we're doing this procedural correctly.

09:30Um

09:31the supplemental uh communication before

09:34you is the final report and

09:35recommendation of our second ad hoc for

09:38chapter 11, which covers the affordable

09:41housing policy for our county. We are

09:43concluding nearly two years work worth

09:46of work to strengthen our county's

09:47affordable housing policies. The first

09:50ad hoc identified gaps in chapter 11 and

09:53recommended further work to translate

09:55those findings into actual legislation,

09:58and the work of the second ad hoc took

10:00on that assignment with great

10:02enthusiasm. Working closely with the

10:04office of housing and community

10:06development, corporation council,

10:08department of planning, other county

10:09departments, and housing and financial

10:11partners. During our time together, we

10:13examined financial barriers,

10:15infrastructure constraints, housing

10:17credits and the credit system,

10:19development incentives, affordability

10:21protections, and how chapter 11 is

10:23administered by OHCD.

10:26We also held two housing summits, one in

10:28Kona and another in Hilo. There was also

10:30an article in the paper inviting members

10:33of the public to join us for the Hilo

10:35convening. This was so that we could

10:37gather additional input from

10:39stakeholders and community members on

10:41what was what was being proposed with

10:43the chapter 11 rewrite. The results of

10:46this ad hoc's work is a comprehensive

10:48rewrite of chapter 11.

10:50The goal being to provide clear

10:52requirements, greater flexibility in how

10:55housing obligations are met, and

10:57stronger accountability, as well as more

11:00tools to support affordable housing

11:02production.

11:04I think what one thing that came became

11:06very clear to the ad hoc was that no

11:09single ordinance is going to be solving

11:11our housing crisis. We still need

11:14critical investments in infrastructure

11:16like water, wastewater, roads,

11:19and construction costs and financing

11:21continue to be significant challenges

11:23that developers face, but we can improve

11:26our policies by reducing unnecessary

11:28barriers and providing greater certainty

11:31and creating just better conditions for

11:33housing development here in the islands.

11:36Um I do want to thank my fellow council

11:38members, particularly Chair Annaba and

11:40Council Members Kagiwada and Hustace for

11:42all of their support. The Office of

11:45Housing and Community Development

11:47Corporation Counsel, LRB, and the many

11:49individuals that contributed their time

11:52and expertise over the last couple of

11:53years. It has been my honor to convene

11:56both of these ad hoc committees. This

11:58report um

11:59concludes our assignments.

12:02A an ordinance is going to be advanced

12:05at our next committee hearing so we can

12:07dive into further discussion and action

12:10of all of the work that's been done by

12:12the ad hoc. Thank you, Chair, for the

12:14opportunity. Yield.

12:16>> Thank you.

12:17Um Mr. Clerk, can we have discussion on

12:20this at this time or is this one of

12:22those cases where we need to

12:24uh

12:25>> Discussion will be limited to the

12:26process that um developed the findings

12:30and recommendations but not on any of

12:32the um

12:33interesting parts thereof.

12:35>> All right. That's what I thought. So

12:38then would anyone like to make any

12:40comments on the process?

12:43Councilmember Hustace.

12:44>> Thank you, Chair. And I first want to

12:45thank uh Councilmember Kirkwood uh for

12:47your leadership in the permanent action

12:48group and then working alongside my

12:50colleagues Councilmember Inaba,

12:52Councilmember uh Kagiwada

12:54really through this this effort and

12:55really all the partners that

12:56collaborated in the process.

12:58Uh really grateful to serve on the

12:59committee with all of you. So thank you

13:01for opening me.

13:03And then you know, really

13:04a lot of partners um outside of the

13:06Office of Housing and Community to

13:08really be a part of that conversation

13:09and really provide some insight

13:11into the work that can be done. So

13:13really grateful for those voices at the

13:15table.

13:16I also appreciate that the report

13:17recognizes some of the challenges that

13:19we face and the work that we've yet to

13:21kind of lift up and move forward and

13:23solve together. So really appreciate

13:25what you you know, brought together in

13:27that report there. So, thank you.

13:29Um and I I I believe it's really

13:30important that we kind of really

13:31maintain some of that flexibility and

13:32accountability through the process. So,

13:35grateful for this conversation and look

13:36forward to the future conversations.

13:38Mahalo.

13:42>> [snorts]

13:44>> Um so, [clears throat] at this time, um

13:46I wanted to get a temperature check. We

13:49could postpone this to the next meeting

13:51to have discussions on content. But,

13:55given the fact that we will actually

13:57have a bill to contemplate, um

14:01I'm seeing that

14:03there's no appetite for that. So,

14:05um I'm going to take a vote on closing

14:08file on communication 63. All those in

14:12favor, please say I.

14:14Any opposed?

14:16Okay.

14:17Communication

14:1863

14:20uh is closed with

14:23nine eyes. Um motion carries. Next item,

14:27please.

14:28>> Is there any additional testimony for

14:31bill 204?

14:36Hearing none, bill 204 amends chapter 2

14:38of the Waiawa County Code 1983-2016

14:41edition as amended relating to the

14:42establishment of a town revitalization

14:44program. Establishes a town

14:46revitalization program to provide up to

14:48$1 million in annually in grants and

14:50other financial assistance for

14:51improvements to eligible buildings and

14:53areas. Requires the director research

14:55and development to procure a non-profit

14:56organization to administer the grant

14:58program. Introduced by Councilmember

15:00Kerekewitz.

15:01>> Chair, motion to forward bill 204 to the

15:03council with a favorable recommendation.

15:05>> Second.

15:06>> It's been moved by Councilmember

15:08Kerekewitz, seconded by Councilmember

15:09Hustace, to forward bill 204 to the

15:12council with a favorable recommendation.

15:15Councilmember Kerekewitz.

15:16>> Thank you, Chair. Um

15:18it's really an opportunity and an honor

15:20to be um introducing this piece of

15:22legislation which looks to reinvest into

15:25the heartbeat of our local economies and

15:28those are our historic downtowns, our

15:29plantation towns, our village centers,

15:31and our commercial districts. I often

15:33think of places like Pahoa and Honoka'a

15:36and Hilo, Naalehu, Kailua-Kona, Hawi,

15:39and other communities around our island.

15:41This is places where generations of

15:44families have worked, they've shopped,

15:46they've gathered, and they've built

15:47community. And each of these communities

15:49have their own unique character and

15:51history and honestly tremendous

15:53potential.

15:54We also know that many of these areas

15:56have experienced years of disinvestment.

15:59Buildings are deteriorating, storefronts

16:02sit vacant, and property owners and

16:03small businesses often struggle to

16:05afford improvements. Sometimes a

16:08relatively modest investment can make a

16:10big difference.

16:12Um a few months ago, Council Member

16:14Kagiwada and I were invited to a

16:16presentation by the Historic Foundation.

16:20They have an annual grant-making program

16:23where they provide small grants, 10,

16:2520,000, up to 100,000, and the idea is

16:28to restore um storefronts, a repair a

16:32roof, improve lighting, um bring a

16:35vacant commercial space um

16:37back into use. And I was so taken by

16:44the incredible improvement that was

16:46happening not just from a physical

16:48environment standpoint, but the

16:50community pride and sense of belonging

16:52that was being cultivated by these

16:54investments. And sort of the application

16:57out into community where property

17:00owners, small business owners are

17:01finding out about the opportunity and

17:03wanted to learn more. Um with Historic

17:06Foundation, they are focused simply on

17:09historic

17:10buildings and districts.

17:13And I wanted to find a way for the

17:14county um to create a similar program

17:18and really show

17:20local communities and small businesses

17:23through this process, through our

17:24budget, through this program, that we

17:26care about them.

17:28Um and so that's what this bill is

17:30intended to do. It's to establish a town

17:33revitalization program housed within

17:35Department of Research and Development

17:38and it would provide for up to $1

17:40million a year um in grant funding.

17:43Projects that would be eligible include

17:45facade storefront improvements, historic

17:47preservation, building rehabilitation,

17:49accessibility upgrades, and technical

17:52assistance that could lead to physical

17:54improvements. There is a cap for what an

17:57applicant could ask for per project. Um

18:01this particular program would be

18:02administered by a qualified nonprofit

18:05that is selected through a competitive

18:07procurement process with oversight from

18:09R&D.

18:11This would allow us to lean on outside

18:14expertise. Um and I'm also looking this

18:16as an opportunity to leverage funding.

18:19How do we take $1 and turn that into $5,

18:23right? Could 1 million be turned into 5

18:25or 10 million if we think about using

18:28this fund to go after state, federal,

18:30philanthropic dollars?

18:33Think it's about maximizing that

18:35opportunity.

18:36Um I didn't want this particular program

18:39to just benefit one town

18:42or one type of town. So there are broad

18:45I think eligibility

18:47um

18:48notes here and it's intended to serve

18:50communities across the Hawaiian Islands.

18:53I also want to recognize that

18:56this kind of revitalization is more than

18:58just trying to make our buildings look

19:00nice. Again, it's about preserving the

19:02character of our communities, supporting

19:04local businesses, and creating places

19:07that people actually feel safe in and

19:09want to spend time in.

19:11One thing that I was really deliberate

19:13about here was um

19:15ensuring that there are guardrails and

19:18specific responsibilities articulated

19:21for the department and administering

19:22nonprofit partner. Um we've learned from

19:25things like the homeless and housing

19:27fund. If we don't set those guardrails,

19:30um we're leaving it to the departments

19:32to assume the intention and the idea

19:34that the council may have had. So, this

19:37affords the council the opportunity to

19:39direct um what we would want this

19:41program to look like.

19:43Um I do want to thank the Department of

19:45Research and Development Director Benson

19:47Medina and especially Deputy Director

19:49Dennis Lin um for working with my office

19:51to refine um this piece of legislation.

19:54I also did have a chance to meet with

19:56the mayor to present the idea and get

19:58his support. I know that Finance is

20:01standing by to answer questions that

20:03folks might have, and I'm happy to

20:05discuss different funding mechanisms. Um

20:07we don't just have to draw on the

20:09general fund. Um Councilmember Inaba and

20:12I were talking about and I'll I'll leave

20:13it to him to dive into the details, but

20:16if there are ways for us to

20:18um

20:19I just have one more point to make,

20:21Chair. Thank you. If there are ways in

20:23which we can leverage real property tax

20:26revenues from the various communities

20:28and use that to reinvest back into those

20:30communities. Separate from this piece of

20:32legislation, but again, just other

20:34creative ways in which we can finance

20:36the revitalization program. Thank you.

20:39>> Thank you, Councilmember Huestis.

20:41>> Thanks, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember

20:43Kikuchi, for bringing this legislation

20:44forward. I think it's quite quite unique

20:46in providing opportunity to support

20:48communities across the entire island.

20:50Definitely thinking about those

20:52communities in the district that I have

20:53an opportunity to represent.

20:55You know, many of those areas have older

20:56commercial buildings and opportunities

20:58to reinvest. So, it

21:00really really appreciate what you're

21:01bringing forward here. We're presenting

21:02kind of

21:03supporting that unique character of each

21:05of these communities. Um just had a

21:07question for

21:09the maker if that's all right, chair, on

21:11kind of just the scope

21:14and those eligible projects, you know,

21:16beyond the commercial buildings,

21:18is there an intent

21:21to also help with restoration or

21:23revitalization of more of the public

21:25facing or public access points,

21:27pedestrian access,

21:29or other public facing amenities in that

21:31same space, or is it only targeted

21:33towards that the commercial side in the

21:35the the private sector?

21:38>> Go ahead, council member.

21:40>> Thank you. I I'd like to say that it

21:42includes all of the above. And so, if

21:44there are

21:46um

21:47suggestions you have to be clear that it

21:50is beyond just the building, but

21:52includes that additional amenities that

21:54you're talking about, I'm happy to

21:56entertain an amendment.

21:58>> Thank you. Appreciate that.

22:00And then, deputy director, if I could

22:02[snorts] ask a couple questions to you.

22:11>> Good morning, Dennis Lynn, deputy

22:13director, Department of Research and

22:14Development.

22:15>> Thank you, deputy director. Appreciate

22:16you this morning. Um

22:19the bill lays out,

22:21>> [clears throat]

22:21>> you know,

22:22a kind of a a range of eligible areas um

22:26to really

22:27help ensure that our smaller communities

22:28are supported, our local businesses,

22:32you know, have an opportunity to

22:33participate. How how would the

22:34department How do you see

22:36kind of that eligibility list of

22:38communities and how would the department

22:39kind of go through that and determine

22:41how to prioritize, how to work with the

22:44nonprofit that's that that goes through

22:46the procurement side with some of these

22:48limited resources. How how do you make

22:49it kind of um equitable through the

22:51through the application process?

22:54>> Sure.

22:55Um

22:58I I would say, you know, there there's

23:00existing resources out there

23:02as of right now, right? So, there's the

23:03historic register that's managed by the

23:05state. So, we could first look at all

23:07the different areas within our island

23:09that already have a historic um

23:13type of uh situation where whether it be

23:15a building, whether it be a house, um

23:18we start there.

23:19Uh but then also looking at, you know,

23:21what are the corridors where people

23:24live, work, and play in that really need

23:27that kind of revitalization.

23:30Um so, towns like

23:32Pāhoa, town like Hōnaunau-Nāpoʻopoʻo, um

23:35I even think about the small towns in

23:37between like Pāpaʻaloa. I mean, there's

23:40a store there, but it's a historic

23:42building. Does it need any more type of

23:44revitalization in terms of

23:46access, you know, the those kind of

23:48things that would bring people

23:50back into those areas that may have been

23:54um

23:55you know, really vibrant when it was

23:57back in the plantation days with sugar,

23:59but now it hasn't uh really gotten the

24:01same kind of uh activity. Um we would

24:04start there. And then also looking into

24:07where are all the CDPs and how they

24:10align with our um

24:12our intention with this program. Um we

24:15have the CDPs as well as general plan

24:17and as well as the SEDs. So, there's a

24:19there has to be alignment. Um

24:22yeah, and and particularly based off of,

24:24you know, our our previous code um

24:26update to R&D

24:28that's a essential part of our

24:29department is to make sure that we're

24:30aligned with those plans to identify

24:33those those areas of economic

24:35revitalization.

24:36>> Thank you. I appreciate that. And I know

24:38your office works um

24:40you know, much through the grant making

24:41grant making efforts and working with

24:43community partners and nonprofits.

24:45Um how do you feel about taking on kind

24:47of that another one in that in that sort

24:48of space and working

24:50you know, with more private entities and

24:51businesses in community through a

24:53nonprofit. How does that play out? Any

24:55sort of challenges in your department to

24:57see that through?

24:59>> I think it'll all come down to the um

25:01when we do the solicitation for the

25:02procurement process and really laying

25:05out when we procure for this nonprofit

25:08what their qualifications are. Cuz it it

25:10it really when we

25:12partner with a nonprofit, we want to

25:14make sure that they have the qual- um

25:16qualifications and the capacity to do

25:18this kind of work.

25:19Uh particularly because a lot of this

25:22um

25:22as I was going through it is really

25:24construction work, providing that

25:26technical assistance, providing perhaps

25:29consultations or coordinating

25:31consultations with SHIPD or other state

25:33agencies on the work. Um so

25:37it really depends on how we write that

25:39uh RFP out and you know, my brain is

25:41already going through some of the

25:42conditions that we'll we'll have to

25:44have, right? Experience doing these kind

25:45of projects, those kind of things.

25:47>> Thank you. Appreciate that, Deputy. And

25:49just a question for finance, I think

25:50Councilmember Ryu said finance is on the

25:52call here.

26:02>> [clears throat]

26:02>> Maybe not. Um it's just a it's more of a

26:04question about um the funding mechanism.

26:07So I'm curious to kind of hear thoughts

26:09thoughts on that.

26:10Um and also

26:12kind of the annual appropriation and

26:13then also the carryover and what that

26:15what that may look like in terms of

26:17uh challenges there or making sure that

26:20those appropriations don't lapse for the

26:21programming.

26:23I'll leave it I'll leave it there.

26:24Thanks, Chair.

26:25>> Thank you.

26:27Finance, last chance.

26:31Seemingly not. Okay. Anyone else?

26:38>> [laughter]

26:40>> Councilmember Kimble.

26:41>> Thank you. Uh thank you, Councilmember

26:44Krekorian, for bringing this forward um

26:47for discussion. You've you've brought a

26:49lot of interesting legislation before us

26:51recently. Um

26:53this one though I am I'm afraid I'm not

26:55supportive of. Um, I do appreciate the

26:57intention and what you're trying to

26:59accomplish with it. Um, but for me in

27:02this one it's an example of

27:06a problem that I don't actually think

27:08the county is the best solution for.

27:11Um,

27:12the

27:16I I think where

27:18we potentially plug in to rural

27:20revitalization

27:22is more of an incentive model as opposed

27:25to a grant making model just um,

27:29thinking about our limited resources,

27:32paying for improvements on private

27:34property.

27:36Um, I

27:37and and the fact that we have other

27:40grant making mechanisms within the

27:42county that could support specific

27:44projects. Um, I'm reluctant although I

27:47love the concept. Um, I'm reluctant to

27:52designate another program within the

27:54county just because I think we we have

27:56the BID program as an example. Um,

27:58that's also an opportunity. I could see

28:01us for example leveraging

28:03um, a forgiveness period for you know,

28:06people do improvements on their private

28:08property. Um,

28:10you know, give them 15 years before

28:12their assessment adjusts or something

28:13like that so they get some future tax

28:15benefits to incentivize revitalization

28:18but

28:20with the constraints that we already

28:21have on the funding in the county, I'm

28:24reluctant to support a program that

28:26would

28:28go primarily towards private land

28:31owners. I think um,

28:34in this environment when you know,

28:37there's there's a whole community out

28:38there that is struggling economically.

28:40So, love the concept.

28:43Happy to kind of look at other

28:44revitalization strategies but for me

28:46this is not the right mechanism. So,

28:49thanks.

28:52>> Council member Kalan Legland of filter.

28:54>> Thank you, chair.

28:56Yeah, man. I had some questions for

28:57finance uh without them being here to

29:00this

29:02Oh, we do have a finance director.

29:05A deputy director.

29:14Good morning, Ms. Kekai.

29:17>> Morning.

29:23>> Sorry, I'm thinking.

29:24Um

29:25Okay, yeah. Have you read the bill, Ms.

29:27Kekai?

29:30>> Uh very briefly. Sorry, just last minute

29:33jumped on, but

29:36>> Have you Have you

29:38Do you unders- When did you get it?

29:39Let's ask that question.

29:42>> Um

29:43this morning. I I have been looking

29:45through it.

29:47>> Okay.

29:48Uh section 2B

29:51A an annual appropriation shall be made

29:53for available grant funding under the

29:55town revitalization program in amount

29:57not exceeding $1 million.

30:00Uh where does that come from and where

30:01does it go?

30:04>> Um my understanding is this would just

30:06be from the general fund.

30:08>> Okay.

30:10And where does it go?

30:13>> Um I'm guessing this is I mean, I'm not

30:15guessing. This is part of um R&D's

30:19budget, correct?

30:23>> I I don't know. Not sure. That's why I'm

30:25asking you.

30:27>> I would say would ask the maker then I

30:29That was my understanding is that R&D

30:30would be managing.

30:32>> I I'm guessing that that is

30:35the correct answer. Uh Mr. Lynn, will

30:37this sit in your budget?

30:39>> That's my understanding.

30:41>> Okay, to the maker, is that the Is that

30:43what I What I'm understanding?

30:46>> Yes, the money would go to R&D as

30:48they're managing the program.

30:49>> Okay, and where in the budget would it

30:51go?

30:54>> That would be something that we'd

30:56probably create a new line item for, or

30:58we sit it within our current um

31:01uh our

31:02uh other current expenses as a

31:04contractual service type of uh

31:06line item.

31:08So, we usually have that line item for

31:11um

31:12for grants that go out that are not

31:14necessarily a named program within our

31:18um

31:19budget programs. So,

31:23>> Okay.

31:27And then I just with the the 2B

31:30section 2B really has is the majority of

31:33it for me.

31:34The idea is interesting.

31:36Um see, the money shall not lapse, shall

31:38remain in the

31:40in the line item budget. Is that

31:41correct, Ms. Kekai?

31:45So, they'll accumulate, but they won't

31:46get returned if not used.

31:49>> That's what it states here, yes.

31:50>> Okay, and then we can increase that

31:52appropriation if we so

32:00>> Not exceed

32:01>> It shall be $1 million, yeah.

32:04>> Yeah, not exceeding $1 million.

32:06>> Okay, and then the another interesting

32:08piece of this was that the nonprofit

32:10that is described under 2C

32:13can take up to 20% of the appropriation.

32:18For some some reason I thought we were

32:19capped at a 10% max or a 15% max for

32:23nonprofits as far as using it for

32:25administrative expenses.

32:31>> [clears throat]

32:32>> Is that Is that a question? I would say

32:34that the the usual is 10% across many

32:38grant programs, even federal. It's

32:40usually a 10%, but if it is legislated

32:43to 20, um

32:45I don't know that. I would say that may

32:47be a curdle. I don't think that there's

32:48anything that prohibits it.

32:50>> Mr. Yoshimura, if you could, is 20% I I

32:53was under the understanding in our code

32:54that 10% was a maximum that we had set

32:57somewhere in our code. And if I'm wrong,

32:58just correct me.

33:08I don't know what specific code section

33:10that is, but I remember seeing it

33:11somewhere in in one of these years

33:14past.

33:17Well, Mr. Inouye with the code section.

33:22What is it, Mr. Inouye?

33:26Okay, Mr. Inouye is saying 2-138-B6.

33:32Is the code section for nonprofit.

33:37>> Uh good morning. Jerry Yoshimura,

33:39assistant corporation counsel. Um

33:41I don't have the code in front of me. If

33:43you could

33:44What does it

33:47What does it say? Sorry. [laughter]

33:50>> Counselor Inouye, would you like to read

33:52the

33:53relevant code?

33:55>> 2-138-B6.

33:58All funds awarded shall be restricted

34:00for the purposes stated in the

34:01application and approved by the council.

34:04No more than 10% of a grant may be

34:06awarded for administrative and overhead

34:08costs. And this comes under again 2-138,

34:12conditions for grant awards.

34:13>> Okay.

34:14>> Yeah.

34:15>> Is that Is that applicable to

34:17>> That would be That sounds like it would

34:18be applicable to this legislation, so

34:21that's something that I think would need

34:22to be amended.

34:24>> Yeah.

34:24>> I agree.

34:25>> Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr.

34:27Yoshimura.

34:28>> [clears throat]

34:29>> Now, Mr. Lynn, I'm thinking back to a

34:32few months ago, didn't we just put in a

34:34million dollars minimum to a grant

34:36program to revitalize businesses

34:40within R&D's items

34:42budget structure?

34:44>> That was a

34:45set in the code as a minimum of

34:47community

34:49economic grants that would be provided

34:52through our department.

34:54>> Similar in nature? Economic resiliency

34:57recovery

34:59>> necessarily similar

35:01in terms of the scope of this bill. It's

35:04similar in terms of economic

35:07focused grants.

35:10Yeah.

35:11>> Okay. Yeah.

35:12I also see this as similar to the CDBG

35:16CDBG CDBG

35:18>> [snorts]

35:18>> community development block grants

35:20available through ACD.

35:22I guess all in all I like the idea.

35:26As time has gone by, I think that we as

35:29a county are providing a

35:33getting to the point of excessive amount

35:35of funding to our nonprofits

35:37and that we have a

35:40duty as a council and as a government to

35:43support community, but we also need to

35:45make sure that we can support the normal

35:48functions of county government

35:50and be very careful and transparent

35:52about how we are subsidizing community,

35:55which parts of community we're

35:56subsidizing

35:57and to the tune of how much money.

36:00So, right now not in support of this for

36:02a few different reasons.

36:04Like the idea, but not in support of

36:07this bill at this time. Thank you.

36:11>> Councilwoman Kagawa. Thank you. Um

36:15yeah, I I

36:17get the intent. I totally support the

36:20intent. I'm I'm not sure

36:23if this vehicle is

36:25exactly

36:27what we should be doing as a county. I

36:29have questions for deputy director Lynn

36:32and Lynn and the ability of R&D

36:37to support this work. I remember just

36:40over a year ago you

36:43sitting here before us and telling us

36:44you couldn't even get out one grant to

36:48an organization for food security.

36:51Um

36:52now we are you've got more money and you

36:55have more grant oversight that you're

36:57already doing. You have the special

36:58events grants you just put out. You have

37:01this a million dollars for

37:04economic development grants. You have

37:07money that you and the mayor put in for

37:10some

37:11food security issues, I believe. Um

37:14there's money in there for [snorts]

37:17um trying to provide additional

37:21immigration support on the west side,

37:23which still has not been done, still has

37:26not gotten out the door. We still don't

37:27have any help on the west side.

37:30Um I know you're struggling a bit with

37:34the early childhood uh coordinator

37:36position

37:38um and you know, figuring out how to

37:41support that. So, I'm just concerned

37:43another big

37:45um

37:48grant that you would need to or contract

37:51potentially that you would need to

37:52manage given all that. What is your

37:56um

37:57staffing

37:59look like? Have you changed your

38:00staffing? Have you gotten a lot more

38:02staff in the last year? Is that what

38:04allowing you to do so much more of this

38:07that you were unable to do a small

38:09amount of a year ago?

38:11>> Yeah, thank you for the question,

38:12Council Member. Yeah, so since uh we

38:15came in in 2024, we have restructured

38:18and also

38:19uh we are basically at full capacity.

38:23All vacant positions in the department

38:25have been filled except for the energy

38:27position.

38:28We have filled all of our EDS twos,

38:30which are support positions for the EDS

38:32three, which are our program

38:33specialists. So that it has increased

38:35capacity in that terms.

38:37Uh we are also at the

38:39tail end of the grants that are have

38:43been carried over since we took over. So

38:45we are increasing capacity as we close

38:48out existing grants.

38:51>> Okay. So

38:55do you really feel like you have the

38:57capacity to do this kind of work given

38:59those other things that you're still

39:00struggling with and then have not been

39:02accomplished yet?

39:04>> Yeah, I would say

39:06I wouldn't I wouldn't lump all those

39:08things into one

39:10general um statement. It's all

39:13circumstantial based off of the

39:14processes that need to be done for those

39:17individual programs.

39:18Um for this one in particular, it's a

39:21little different because

39:24it's a partnership between a nonprofit

39:28and the department versus

39:31where just saying you do it.

39:34Tell us what the result is. This bill

39:37actively has the department

39:39participating in the process

39:41uh in terms of

39:43selection of the grantee, selection of

39:46the the location that is going to be

39:48impacted. Uh so there is that active

39:51involvement.

39:52>> So even more work on the department than

39:54a normal grant would have.

39:56>> I wouldn't say it's more work. It

39:58the nonprofit supplements our work.

40:02>> Okay.

40:03All right. Um

40:06I would love to see

40:08yeah, some movement on some of these

40:09other things that you're already

40:10committed to

40:12before putting another huge thing on

40:14your plate.

40:15Um

40:18yeah, on that. And as far as the actual

40:20work goes, I think, you know, something

40:22like this seems to be needed, but I

40:24don't know if the county and the county

40:26budget and the county taxpayer dollars

40:29um, should be the ones doing this. So,

40:33I love the creativity of it. I think

40:35there might I, you know, the pre- the

40:38presentation that Ashley mentioned that

40:40she and I went to for the historic

40:42society. That was amazing and I I can

40:44see the parallels, but I'm just

40:46wondering are there other

40:49places besides the county government

40:51that should be taking this up other than

40:53us? Um,

40:55maybe there's nothing out there that

40:57could do it.

40:58Um, I'm sure you've already looked.

41:00Uh,

41:02but yeah, I

41:03I do

41:05have my concerns.

41:06Um, but would love to keep talking about

41:09this and I think obviously the funding

41:11mechanisms that hopefully Council Member

41:13Novotny is going to talk about would

41:15would definitely, um,

41:18I think sway,

41:19potentially sway my my thoughts on this,

41:22um, if there are um,

41:25good

41:27alternatives

41:28to the general fund as uh, funding this.

41:32So, thanks. I look forward to having

41:34further discussions and hearing about

41:36the potential funding sources. I yield.

41:39>> Thank you, Council Member Novotny.

41:42>> Thank you, Chair. Um, and thank you,

41:43Council Member Berkowitz for bringing

41:45this legislation forward.

41:47Uh, I I really like

41:49what's being presented and I think there

41:51are different mechanisms that we

41:53currently have in cold for improvements

41:55to areas, whether it be business

41:57improvement, water improvement,

41:59facilities, districts, um,

42:02all with their own set of rules, um,

42:06but something I've tossed around in my

42:07head and even tried to run some numbers

42:10on is looking

42:11on the business improvement district

42:13side whether

42:15cuz right now we're doing special

42:16assessments, right? So, they pay their

42:18normal property tax based on their

42:20values and their

42:21their tax class and then

42:24via ordinance the council establishes a

42:26special assessment on top of that that

42:28goes into the business improvement

42:30district fund for their operation, but

42:33looking at whether as a county and

42:35specifically as a council we're going to

42:37make a policy decision on whether

42:40we just allow a certain percentage of

42:43the real property tax revenue generated

42:46from within a proposed or an existing

42:48business improvement district to go

42:49directly to that improvement district um

42:53because as we saw in Hilo and and I

42:55think I mentioned this our last Hilo

42:57meeting or a couple months ago, you

42:59know, one of the big pushbacks um from

43:01the Hilo downtown area was not wanting

43:04to have to pay more than they already

43:06are paying. Um so,

43:08that might be something that

43:11um it is something that my office will

43:13bring not during this term, but

43:15something that the next council uh will

43:18have the opportunity to kind of flush

43:19out a little bit more.

43:22I do like this since it isn't

43:23necessarily

43:25um

43:26focused on business um specifically

43:30um regarding the

43:3320% I I

43:36I want to assume that, you know, that

43:38was intentional Council Member Kūpuna

43:40and if um

43:42we need to maybe increase the maximum

43:46amount in the bill. I'm not sure how

43:48this is going to progress, but it might

43:49be better to keep it um at 10% in

43:53alignment with the rest of any of our

43:55county grant programs, but besides that,

43:58you know, I'm I'm in support for

44:00um

44:01for this bill and what it's trying to do

44:04um for some of these small communities

44:06and as Deputy Director pointed out, some

44:08of them, you know, we know those are big

44:10towns around it. Our big old towns, big

44:13old little towns around the island, but

44:15we do have those other small ones.

44:18Places like Holualoa here in Kona that,

44:21you know, are not necessarily

44:23maybe considered as often that this

44:25could very much help and a lot of times

44:27some of these small towns

44:30do have their own little

44:32business associations or neighborhood

44:36boards that would definitely I believe

44:38welcome

44:39something like this. So,

44:42I'll be in support. Thank you, Council

44:43Member Kirkwood.

44:46Council Member Eustace.

44:48Thanks, Chair. Just going Just going

44:49back to the program funding piece.

44:53You know, you you set Council Member

44:55Kirkwood, you kind of set the cap at

44:56about a million dollars.

44:59Curious if that is

45:02you know, I know it can be appropriation

45:03up to that point. I don't know if

45:05there's more of a mechanism to kind of

45:07pilot this program first, kind of

45:08figuring out maybe like um

45:10a figure that that the department would

45:12be comfortable kind of launching with

45:15the first year and seeing how the

45:16program runs.

45:18Um and even considering whether that cap

45:20should be lower. I I'm not sure what

45:22your thoughts were on

45:24the extent the funds, you know, would be

45:26out in community supporting I know a

45:28million dollars can go pretty far if

45:30you're spreading it across a lot of

45:32different communities and probably be

45:33consumed pretty quickly as well at the

45:35same time.

45:36But just curious how this might

45:38how we could maybe pilot the program

45:40first to kind of see what the

45:42effectiveness is, the ability for the

45:44department to take it on, and then

45:46really see the impact in community to

45:47then be able to then make a

45:48determination, okay, the cap needs to be

45:50a little higher or something like that.

45:52And I know it's it's up to that million,

45:54but trying to see if that that cap

45:56should be lowered to kind of initiate

45:57the program first. Something to

45:59consider. Thank you so much.

46:05>> Uh Councilmember Kagiwada,

46:07>> Yeah, um

46:09you know, listening to my colleagues

46:11here,

46:12um six of one, half a dozen of the other

46:14is kind of what it sounds like.

46:16Uh

46:17really appreciating the concept. I share

46:19some concerns about county

46:24taking on

46:26uh

46:28that fine line with private property,

46:31right? Private property ownership and

46:33their responsibility, um also human

46:37error, human elements of capacity,

46:40um also

46:42equity. I appreciate Councilmember

46:45Kagiwada Kagiwada's, um

46:48you know, bringing up some of the

46:51challenges that have been presented to

46:54legislation she's tried to bring forward

46:56to to allocate funds like this.

46:59Uh the capacity for R&D, um and I do

47:04appreciate Councilmember Eustace, your

47:07concept of a pilot, right? So, this

47:10doesn't become something that's

47:13indelibly,

47:14I mean, nothing in

47:16law or county is indelible, but a trial

47:21kind of opportunity. Um and as we

47:26continue through a time of fiscal

47:31you know, we've had some abundance,

47:32we've also had times of real

47:36um

47:37fear

47:38about uh the, you know, the funding that

47:41we have to do everything we need to. I

47:45also, you know,

47:48Kailua Village

47:50is suffering and struggling, and even

47:53though it's kind of a more urban

47:55corridor, Kailua-Kona, um

47:58Kona Inn Shopping Center, historic,

48:02dilapidating, falling apart.

48:04Um

48:06but I do believe that's

48:08predominantly the responsibility of the

48:10owners of that property, not necessarily

48:12for county to fix. Um I also recognize

48:16the challenges in Holualoa, our historic

48:19buildings.

48:21Um and as new people come in and you

48:24know, much of Holualoa town has been

48:27transitioned in ownership in the last

48:29few years.

48:31Um

48:33and they struggle with infrastructure

48:34and some people want sidewalks. That was

48:37originally a donkey trail. So, those

48:40buildings were built right up against

48:42the edge there and many were just

48:44garages. So, it's not feasible to put

48:47the infrastructure. I know I'm kind of

48:49talking in circles right now and I

48:51apologize. Um and thank you for your

48:53patience. I guess I um

48:56I really appreciate the concept and the

48:58intention cuz when I look at,

49:01you know,

49:03the buildings in downtown Honoka- uh

49:05that downstairs was the store and

49:08upstairs was the fact where the family

49:10lived

49:11and that functional utilization of work

49:15and home space

49:17uh and revitalization of that kind of

49:19opportunity, I think is imperative. I

49:21just don't know if this is the best

49:24avenue because

49:26there have been issues with trust

49:28with allocating funding and how does it

49:30actually get spent and does it just then

49:32if it doesn't get used cuz there's not a

49:34nonprofit or there isn't the

49:36organization or indeed just ends up

49:38sitting on this money?

49:40So, anyway, I'm talking in circles, but

49:42I'm trying to express my internal

49:45struggle and that's my inner dialogue

49:47right now on this. So, thank you. I

49:49yield.

49:50>> Thank you.

49:52Anyone else?

49:56>> Um

49:57Thank you. Uh Deputy Director, um

50:00the the recommendation was put out there

50:03about potentially piloting something

50:05before implementing a full-scale

50:07program. The the program of the funding

50:10that was um proposed earlier with the

50:12bill that the other bill that

50:13Councilmember Kirkwood introduced, would

50:15you be able to

50:17do a pilot of this nature under the

50:19construct of that funding program?

50:24>> As of right now, yes, we could.

50:25>> Yeah, I think I'd be more comfortable

50:27with that.

50:27>> It it'd probably be a

50:28a smaller scale. I mean, we don't have a

50:30million dollars

50:31>> the point of a pilot, right?

50:32>> additional million dollars. Yeah, we we

50:34we could definitely do a a pilot

50:36>> Yeah.

50:36>> under our current

50:38>> Okay, I I like that idea rather than

50:40um

50:41I mean, I I see I see the interest here,

50:43I really do. I I think

50:45I have like I said, concerns about this

50:47as being the right space for the county

50:49with the limited funding that we have to

50:51to invest taxpayer dollars, but if we

50:53can potentially do a pilot, I'd be

50:54supportive of that through the other

50:56funding. All right, thank you.

50:57>> Thank you.

51:00>> [snorts]

51:01>> Councilmember

51:03Kirkwood.

51:05>> Thank you for the robust discussion and

51:07really great feedback. Um I do want to

51:10point out that we don't have a

51:11Department of Human Services or

51:13Homelessness, yet we've spent nearly $30

51:15million

51:17supporting homeless response programs.

51:19We also adopted an ordinance to fund

51:22improvements to private roads. So, I ask

51:24my colleagues to keep an open mind and

51:27support communities in every single one

51:29of our districts that are floundering.

51:32And I don't think we can just say, "Oh,

51:34leave it to a nonprofit or somebody else

51:36to figure out." We have tools. We have

51:39funding. We have a responsibility to act

51:41on behalf of our communities.

51:44This may not be the perfect vehicle, but

51:45I do think it provides a really good

51:47foundation for at least creating a

51:50program

51:51to support organizations, property

51:54owners that are really struggling. It's

51:57very very difficult out there. And I

51:59think this is one small way that the

52:01county can show

52:03um some goodwill and that it is

52:05supportive of communities outside of

52:06Hilo and Kona, even though they do need

52:08a lot of help.

52:09Downtown Hilo is like super shameful

52:11right now.

52:12Um I am open for this to be a pilot

52:15project, similar to how uh there was a

52:18sunset date for the homeless and housing

52:20fund, setting a date for 3 to 5 years to

52:23um pilot this program. The benefit of

52:25this ordinance is everything is spelled

52:28out.

52:29Previous programs that were established

52:31by this body had absolutely no

52:34guardrails.

52:35So, I'm learning from

52:37past mistakes and trying to find a way

52:40to articulate the intention, the

52:43responsibility of the department, the

52:45expectation of any private partners, and

52:48what the community can

52:50um expect in terms of process

52:53um and benefit.

52:56I'm happy to put forward um an amendment

52:58at the next reading to

53:00move forward with some kind of pilot. Um

53:05I don't know actually. I mean

53:09I don't know if it's the most

53:11appropriate to use the R&D

53:14um

53:15impact grant vehicle. I do want to check

53:18with finance and corporation counsel on

53:19that because there's a very specific

53:22set of language in the code for how that

53:26funding can be used and who the

53:28recipient can be. So, I again, I just

53:31want to have folks keep an open mind

53:32about where the funding could come from.

53:35Um I am looking at perhaps $250,000

53:39to get started and we can leave it up to

53:41future councils to discern determine is

53:44this program successful and then make

53:46necessary code amendments or additional

53:49appropriations in the budget if the

53:51program is successful to

53:53keep it going and expand.

53:56On the administrative funding side, um

54:00happy to make some changes so that there

54:03is a bit more

54:05alignment within our code about the

54:07administrative fee that would be used to

54:10engage the nonprofit to administer this

54:12program.

54:14Um and then the final thing, Deputy, I

54:16just wanted to note that you had asked

54:18that there be an additional 15 days

54:21added to the calendar for your

54:23department to review the report um by

54:26the nonprofit before it is transmitted

54:28to Council, so there being a total of 90

54:30days um between the nonprofit and your

54:33office before the Council has a chance

54:35to review um the outcomes of the

54:39of the program.

54:40>> Yeah, if I may just to clarify that, um

54:43that's just to be in line with the R&D

54:45ordinance that was passed in the R&D

54:47code bill because the R&D code bill says

54:5190 days after the fiscal year end. So,

54:53for us to have a comprehensive

54:55uh report of all the grant activity that

54:58we our department has done, we want to

55:00just make sure that we can

55:02successfully put all the grants in one

55:05report

55:06and do at the same time.

55:09>> Thank you. Um and another question about

55:11oh, we shouldn't be investing in

55:14private properties. Again, we have an

55:16ordinance where we are investing in

55:17private roads, and I I do think that

55:20there is a greater public benefit when

55:22we invest in our downtown areas.

55:25We increase the property values by

55:28improving these buildings and the

55:30storefronts. The aesthetic appeal does

55:33increase real property tax revenue for

55:36the county so that we can continue to

55:38deliver essential services and reinvest

55:41back into programs like this that could

55:43honestly make all the difference for

55:45communities. So, if there are any other

55:48um

55:49comments that folks might have about how

55:51this legislation can improve beyond what

55:53was already shared, completely open so

55:56that I can advance a robust amendment.

55:58Thank you.

56:01>> Councilmember Kagiwada.

56:02>> Thank you. Um yeah, I'm interested in

56:05exploring further some of the things I

56:07guess that Councilmember Inaba brought

56:09up about potential funding that's not

56:11just directly coming straight off of our

56:15um

56:15general fund, if that's possible. I

56:18think that's a really good way to look

56:20at it. Especially funding that can come

56:22from these communities and then be

56:24funneled back into the communities.

56:27Um

56:30Deputy Director Lynn, are you Do you

56:33speak for the administration in support

56:35of this as far as

56:37even though we have so much um

56:40obligation in these wastewater projects

56:43and everything else, like Coconut

56:44Bridge, Coconut Island Bridge, all these

56:47things that we have to invest in, um

56:50this administration

56:51wants to see

56:53up to a million dollars a year to go

56:55towards this. Is that correct?

56:58>> Uh

56:59Thank you for your question. Uh

57:00I am here in my operational lens for the

57:03department. I cannot speak on behalf of

57:06the mayor or the director in terms of

57:08whether or not they support or do not

57:10support the program.

57:11>> sorry. I thought you were Okay. I'm

57:12sorry. Um to the maker, I think you said

57:14that you met with the mayor. Does the

57:16mayor um support of putting

57:19these tax dollars um

57:21towards this? I'm just interested so

57:23that we don't

57:25you know,

57:27go too far without that information.

57:32>> I'm happy to get a letter from him, but

57:34yes, we did meet on all of the

57:36initiatives I was advancing for the rest

57:38of my term, and he did confirm support

57:40for this program.

57:41>> Okay, so he wants to put that money into

57:42that. Okay. All right, thank you for

57:44that. Um yeah, I I really want to see

57:47more

57:48uh

57:49thought into how we generate the funds

57:51for this. I think that would be

57:52important given everything else that we

57:54currently have to pay for. Thanks.

57:58>> Councilmember Caniggia left the floor.

58:00>> Just just a last comment for everybody.

58:03Um so the 20% if we put a million

58:04dollars in, that means a nonprofit gets

58:06$200,000.

58:09This is beginning to sound a lot like

58:12we're supporting nonprofits,

58:14not community.

58:16If a nonprofit wants to do good in the

58:18community, do good in the community.

58:20Private businesses need help, everyone

58:22needs help.

58:23But if we're supporting

58:2620%

58:28of the total funding

58:31for a nonprofit,

58:33then we're bordering on the same thing

58:35we had issues with in the other funds,

58:37which is

58:38how much

58:40administrative expenses are being

58:41applied to programs and how much

58:43programmatic expenses are being applied.

58:46We start to cross the line of just

58:48supporting nonprofits for the sake of

58:50supporting a program,

58:52you got to ask yourself, who are we

58:53supporting?

58:55The nonprofits or the program? And this

58:58is I'm seeing this same thing come up

59:00again and again and again.

59:02To Ms. Kimble's point, these are private

59:05landowners who own buildings,

59:07who've let them go to crap, and we've

59:09seen that again and again. The Sun Sun

59:11Lau building,

59:13that owner let that building go to

59:17nothing,

59:19and then was happy to lease it to the

59:20county so we could put tens of millions

59:23of dollars into it, and then lease it

59:27from the owner to a fix an eyesore in

59:30Hilo.

59:34It's

59:35it's this ongoing

59:37thing that seems to occur in the

59:38community. If a private land owner wants

59:40to

59:41hold a building

59:43and let it go to crap until the county

59:45can bail them out

59:46after sitting on it for decades

59:49and not using equity or using any of the

59:51money that they have

59:53in their

59:55assets

59:57to improve their own properties and wait

59:59for the county to come back and say,

1:00:00"Hey, we need help fixing our property

1:00:02so we can make Hilo better." You

1:00:04shouldn't own the property.

1:00:07This is This is different from roads.

1:00:09Roads are

1:00:10owned by 4,000 units, you know, in some

1:00:13places or or 15,000 units and left to

1:00:16the people to fix.

1:00:18No other solution.

1:00:20Having a private building

1:00:23be sponsored through a nonprofit that

1:00:25takes 20% of the grand total that we put

1:00:29towards this program

1:00:32means it's stepping away from the whole

1:00:34idea of fixing it.

1:00:35I want to support the businesses.

1:00:37Support businesses. You already have

1:00:38that money in your budget.

1:00:40It's going this direction. This is

1:00:42slippery slope.

1:00:43So, I I still feel the same way then.

1:00:45Thank you.

1:00:47>> Council member Inouye-Walsh.

1:00:49>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

1:00:51Um Deputy Director Glenn

1:00:53would it is it possible for your

1:00:55department, your staffing to be the

1:00:59entity

1:01:00to receive all the requests,

1:01:03applications from business owners and

1:01:06then you folks do the dispersing of

1:01:08funding

1:01:10instead of a like a nonprofit like as

1:01:11Mr. um Mr. Kanuha-Klein Felder

1:01:14mentioned?

1:01:18>> In concept, yes. Um

1:01:22but how this bill is written would help

1:01:26with the technical aspect of it.

1:01:28Assessing the the actual need of what

1:01:31it's specifically they're requesting.

1:01:34So, you know, some of the examples here

1:01:36are like facades or

1:01:38um you know, storefront uh improvements.

1:01:43We don't want to be a department that uh

1:01:46starts consulting or starts advising

1:01:48people on construction, uh but we we are

1:01:51able to advise people on what the

1:01:54process would be.

1:01:56Um we would rely on the nonprofit for

1:01:57that technical expertise and that

1:02:00that that kind of support.

1:02:01>> But then do you you have do have a

1:02:03section in in your department for

1:02:05economic development?

1:02:06>> Correct.

1:02:07>> Yeah. So, I would think that would be

1:02:08the avenue, right, of the funding. You

1:02:11know, I like this idea, which is great

1:02:12cuz it's like we're investing

1:02:15into the business to get values up on

1:02:18the property tax.

1:02:20Last year I did talk to finance director

1:02:23Akagawa

1:02:24about having the county to give

1:02:27initiatives to the businesses to improve

1:02:30their buildings and giving them giving

1:02:33them breaks on their property tax.

1:02:36Right? And cuz in the long term

1:02:39we would have buildings being

1:02:41redone, like retrofitted, but also maybe

1:02:45in 5 years then we start collecting the

1:02:47big money, right?

1:02:50So, I kind of I like this, too,

1:02:52but I think there is certain places

1:02:54maybe we can tweak a little.

1:02:56And so, um

1:02:59I'm willing to hear more options that we

1:03:02you can provide. Yeah. Thank you. I

1:03:04yield.

1:03:09>> So, um seeing no other lights before we

1:03:13go to voting, I just wanted to

1:03:16um say a few things Um um

1:03:20I definitely in support of like the

1:03:22concept

1:03:24um

1:03:26of revitalization. It's It's kind of

1:03:29ironic though because um

1:03:33like for not like who it's so much

1:03:35beyond the facade repair. It's like the

1:03:39whole building is gone. So, that kind of

1:03:41thing I mean it I don't know if we could

1:03:45tweak this to include that. That seems

1:03:47like almost another level of um help

1:03:50that is needed.

1:03:52um

1:03:55And the other part of that I think is

1:03:58kind of following on and on Council

1:04:00member Council member Elders' comments.

1:04:03Um you know, some of the people that own

1:04:05buildings are very very wealthy and you

1:04:08would think that they would not

1:04:09necessarily take advantage of this but

1:04:12you get wealthy by taking advantage of

1:04:14everything. So, another possibility

1:04:17possible amendment might be and this

1:04:19would complicate things definitely but I

1:04:22think it would be

1:04:23valid would be to put in some kind of

1:04:27um

1:04:29income threshold

1:04:31for

1:04:33um applicants such that we're not you

1:04:36know, funding people who are already

1:04:38very wealthy.

1:04:40um

1:04:42So, I yeah, I I also really like the

1:04:45idea of tax credits um rather than a

1:04:49grant but I'm willing to

1:04:52um

1:04:53would like to have more conversation

1:04:55about this idea.

1:04:57So.

1:04:59>> Council Go ahead Council member Council

1:05:01>> Thank you.

1:05:02um

1:05:03I didn't put a financial test

1:05:06um in this piece of legislation because

1:05:08I know that some Council members are

1:05:10saying, "Oh, they're rich. they're

1:05:12property owners, um they're building

1:05:14owners, it's their fault." Um

1:05:16sometimes there could have been

1:05:18something personally that happened, some

1:05:20sort of economic situation that didn't

1:05:23allow them to invest in their building.

1:05:25There could be a family issue where

1:05:28certain siblings as part of a trust

1:05:29don't want to make investments. I I

1:05:31don't want to make any assumptions, but

1:05:33that might not always be the case. And

1:05:35there are people that are legitimately

1:05:37struggling just to get by.

1:05:39Um and so we have to think about

1:05:41everyone.

1:05:42Um I would be interested in putting a

1:05:45financial test in this legislation to

1:05:48see if there could be money from the

1:05:50property or business owner to be used as

1:05:53leverage

1:05:54to stretch the dollars of the program.

1:05:57So, I will definitely work on an

1:05:59amendment. I actually want to keep this

1:06:01in committee. We still have a little bit

1:06:02of time

1:06:04um to get it to first and second reading

1:06:06if that's the will of the body. So, if

1:06:08it's okay with you, Chair, I do want to

1:06:10make a motion to postpone bill 204 to

1:06:13the November 5th committee hearings.

1:06:15>> Second.

1:06:17>> It's been moved by council member

1:06:19Kirkwood, seconded by council member

1:06:20Houston to defer

1:06:23this measure to the

1:06:25November 5th meeting. All in favor,

1:06:27please say I.

1:06:30Any opposed?

1:06:32That's nine eyes in favor. Motion

1:06:35passes.

1:06:38Um and that brings us to the end of our

1:06:41agenda, and we are

1:06:43adjourned at 11:05.

1:06:46The next meeting will um happen at 12:00

1:06:50p.m.

1:07:08Okay.

1:07:29Huh?

1:07:29>> Thank you.

1:07:30>> You're welcome. Thank you.

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