2026-10-06 - Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions Committee

00:00the 32nd session of the committee of

00:02legislative approvals and acquisitions.

00:04We are located today here in the Hilo

00:06chambers. It is October 6 at 12:36 p.m.

00:11Apologies for studying a few minutes

00:12late here. In the room we have council

00:14members Galima, council members, council

00:16member, council member Kili Kleinfelder

00:19and chair and prior design residing

00:20officer council member Kimble. Um before

00:23we start the agenda, Mr. Clerk, do we

00:24have any testimonies from the public?

00:28Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

00:30[clears throat] We do have a number of

00:31testifiers here in the Hilo Chamber as

00:33well as via Zoom. So, what we'll do is

00:36we'll take our first two testifiers via

00:38Hilo, then we'll go to Zoom for our next

00:41two, and then we'll continue that

00:42rotation till we've completed all our

00:44testifiers. With that being said, our

00:46first testifiers are here in the Hilo

00:48Chamber. Bob Yunki to be followed by

00:50Matt Chalker testifying on bills 186 and

00:52187.

00:54Gentlemen, when you're ready to begin,

00:56you can hit the green button at the base

00:57of the mic. Introduce yourself and

00:59you'll have three minutes per agenda

01:00item if you can clearly transition. If

01:02not, it will be three minutes total.

01:09>> Thank you very much. Uh my name is Bob

01:11Yunki. I'm president of Walo Village and

01:14I'm here speaking on behalf of of

01:16wildfire safety advocates. Um you've

01:19heard from us before a couple weeks ago

01:21or a few weeks ago uh you heard our

01:24analysis of uh the study that the county

01:28had commissioned the evacue fire

01:31wildfire evacuation study which showed

01:35that at best it's going to take three

01:37and a half to four and a half hours to

01:39evacuate the village in the event of a

01:42wildfire and that the data that we saw

01:46uh from the Lahina incident report shows

01:50that the fire there under red flag

01:52conditions burned into the village or

01:54into the town 1.3 miles in the first 90

01:58minutes. So 90 minutes is really the

02:01window of opportunity that we have to

02:03evacuate the village when uh we end up

02:07with wet red flag conditions in in the

02:11Waloa area. And we have more frequent

02:14white red flag conditions in Waloa than

02:16any other place in the state. Which is

02:19why we are ranked not only uh in by this

02:23the attorney general as having the

02:25highest wild wildfire risk of any

02:28community in the state. Uh but we were

02:31also designated in the new general plan

02:33as a high risk wildfire hazard area.

02:38Now, what's particularly concerning to

02:40us is the fact that the new designation

02:44of W uh WO village as a a high-risk

02:48wildfire area was never discussed in any

02:52of the documentation for this decision

02:54in front of you. But chapter 25 requires

02:58that when a zoning request is made, the

03:01applicant for the zoning request is

03:03required to prepare an environmental

03:05report. The environmental report with

03:08this documentation

03:11uh says nothing about wildfire risk in

03:14Walo village.

03:17It is completely silent.

03:19And we wonder why that is the case given

03:23the fact that the community development

03:25plan for WLO village uh says that the

03:29highest risk for our community is

03:32exposure to wildfire and the likelihood

03:35of injuries and deaths from wildfire.

03:38And our community development plan

03:40called out the importance of

03:42>> 30 seconds, please.

03:43>> Thank you. uh the importance of having a

03:46second road in order to minimize that

03:48risk. And that was developed in 2008,

03:54but that none of that was mentioned in

03:57the report that was prepared by the

03:59applicant for this zoning change. And

04:02none of that was discussed in the report

04:05prepared by the planning department as

04:08part of the presentation for the

04:10planning commission. So when the

04:12planning commission I I will transition

04:14to the second item.

04:18When the planning commission uh

04:20considered this matter, none of those

04:22issues relating to wildfire risk and the

04:26hazards involved in trying to evacuate

04:28the village under red flag conditions

04:30was included in any of the

04:32documentation. Over a 100 pages of

04:35documentation from the planning

04:36department. Not one word was mentioned

04:40about uh any of these risks that we face

04:45and

04:47it it doesn't make any sense unless

04:50there's a cover up at work here. Uh you

04:54are required to to make a zoning

04:57decision in this case that complies with

05:00the general plan. The the new natural

05:03hazards program in the general plan

05:06calls out specifically for the council

05:10to adopt land use decisions that

05:13minimize risk from the wildfire hazard.

05:17This decision will increase our risk by

05:20increasing the population trying to

05:22escape under red flag conditions. So,

05:25you're in direct violation of the new

05:27policy that was adopted to protect us.

05:31And we're here to ask you to implement

05:34the policies that you adopted in the

05:37general plan. And and and the the fact

05:40that none of this was discussed in any

05:42of the documentation.

05:44Uh it's just

05:47the only inference we can draw from that

05:49is that there's some kind of cover up at

05:51work here that that the planning

05:54department and the applicant uh has

05:57intentionally avoided discussing any of

06:00these issues

06:02which seems totally unexplainable

06:05otherwise.

06:07So, what we're asking you to do is to

06:10actually implement the policies that you

06:12put into the general plan, which we very

06:15much appreciate because they protect our

06:17community. Um, but otherwise, if if you

06:20don't, then we're going to have to ask

06:22the courts to enforce the general plan.

06:26Uh, and and the other option is to stand

06:29in the way of the bulldozers to protect

06:31our lives uh and end up filling up the

06:34county jail. But that, you know, that's

06:37uh that's that's a bit down the road.

06:39We're counting on you to do your jobs

06:40first.

06:42Thank you.

06:45>> Thank you so much. Matt, you can go

06:46ahead and introduce yourself.

06:48>> Aloha, Chair Kimell, Vice Chair Onishi,

06:50members of the committee. I am Matt

06:51Shocker, executive director of Wildfire

06:53Safety Advocates, and I'm speaking on

06:55bills 186 and 187. Bill 186 asks you to

06:58move about 15 acres from agricultural to

07:00urban so the applicant can build 400

07:03multif family units. I want to show you

07:05what that land looked like earlier this

07:06summer. The green outline in this

07:08picture is the WOA green parcel. The

07:11black is the fire that occurred on July

07:1310th. I personally flew it 6 days later

07:16with my drone and stitched together

07:172,293

07:19drone images to map the whole thing. 1if

07:21of this parcel burnt.

07:24This is the burn alone. If you look at

07:26the top, it starts at the shoulder of

07:27Waloa Road, the only paved road in and

07:30out of our village. Here's what should

07:33worry everyone in this room. July 10th

07:35was an ordinary day. There was no red

07:38flag warning. The weather service called

07:41it a typical breezy summertime trade

07:43winds. That's a direct quote. The

07:45weather station less than a mile away

07:47recorded 22 mph winds and humidity right

07:49at the July average. About one summer

07:52day in four has winds like that. The

07:55Attorney General's Lahina report warned

07:57about this exact situation in Hawaii. It

07:59said, quote, "There is little difference

08:01between a normal summer day and a red

08:03flag day." [snorts] The same report

08:04found Waloa Village has a 100% higher

08:07risk than any other place in the United

08:08States. Your general plan already tells

08:11you what to do with land like this. Map

08:1233 rates Waloa as a high wildfire risk

08:16area. Policy 12.6 says to reduce

08:18development intensity in identified

08:20high-risisk hazard areas. Moving land

08:22from agricultural to urban does the

08:24opposite. The planning department's

08:26recommendation on this item evaluates

08:28flood, lava, tsunami on this parcel. It

08:31never evaluates wildfire, the hazard

08:33that burned it three months ago. Please

08:36don't move this land to the urban

08:37district until the planning department

08:39reconciles it with the general plans

08:40hazard policies. That was the land use

08:44question. The res the reszoning one

08:45covers the other 709 acres. And this

08:48next bit answers that. I'm transitioning

08:50to bill 187 right now.

08:54The reasonzoning in Bill 187 allows up

08:56to 777 homes and lots. Fuel brakes and

09:00trails are a central feature of the

09:01applicant's fire plan. Here is what a

09:04fire break did on July 10th. This is

09:07inside the parcel. It was a graded road

09:09about 30 ft wide across the wind. The

09:12fire burned up to it and then embers

09:14flew over the road and over 120 ft of

09:18unburnt grass and lit the far side.

09:21That's a 150 ft gap that it jumped on an

09:25ordinary afternoon. No trail system stop

09:28that. Oh, this is four. That's four.

09:31Yes. Sorry. [laughter] There's one road

09:33out. It's shared by the entire village

09:36and the applicants. When the fire does

09:38something like this, jumps 150 ft. You

09:41can't stop it. The only thing that you

09:42can do is to leave. Which brings me to

09:45the applicant's testimony from

09:46yesterday. It includes emails between

09:49the applicant and HD dot about the WLOA

09:51emergency evacuation route. That work is

09:54critical and we appreciate it. It is

09:57also a half measure. For 18 years, this

10:00village has asked for one thing, a

10:03two-lane road open to traffic 24/7.

10:06A single lane gated egresson route that

10:09does not does not meet the needs of the

10:11people who live here now, let alone up

10:13to 777 more households. And I'll say

10:16this plainly right now. We have been

10:18told more than once by government

10:20officials that this work could stop if

10:23we don't show enough gratitude. Offering

10:25a half measure on a vital public safety

10:28me uh uh uh infrastructure improvement

10:31and then demanding thanks for it is the

10:34opposite of public service. The

10:37amendments offered so far are the same.

10:39They're appreciated, but they're half

10:41measures. They don't touch the one thing

10:43this community needs the most, which is

10:45road access. We've heard it said that it

10:47isn't appropriate to require anything

10:49beyond this TMK on this application. We

10:52respectfully disagree. This is exactly

10:55how Waloa became a village of thousands

10:57on one road, one project at a time with

11:00each being told the road was someone

11:02else's job. We are not asking WLO

11:05agreeing to carry the entire world or

11:06the entire weight of this road on their

11:08backs. But we are asking that it carry

11:10its share and that the weight not follow

11:12only on the residents that are already

11:13here. There is a way to do this. A

11:16dedicated funding district for WLO road

11:18built as a true public private

11:20partnership. We would support we would

11:22support the residents paying a fair

11:23share. The county, the state, and the

11:25developers building here should also pay

11:27theirs starting with this one. Everyone

11:31who benefits from WL Cloa's growth

11:32should help pay for the road to make it

11:33safe. Why Cloa Green belongs at that

11:36table as a condition of approval, not

11:38excused from it. Please defer these

11:40bills and ask the planning uh department

11:42to return a recommendation that

11:43addresses wildfire and evacuation. The

11:45county now knows that this land will

11:47burn. Every legal claim that we've

11:49raised is preserved in our written

11:51testimony and we would much rather solve

11:53it here together today. Mahal.

11:57>> Thank you so much for your testimony.

11:59Chair, your next two testifiers will be

12:00via Zoom. Khalani Flores to be followed

12:03by Michelle Stfanic. Khani, when you're

12:05ready to begin, you can please introduce

12:07yourself and then you'll have three

12:09minutes per agenda item. If you can

12:11clearly transition.

12:13>> Hello, council members. I've been before

12:14you regarding this matter at least two

12:16other times. And so I would like to

12:19encompass my previous written testimony

12:23and oral testimony as well as what that

12:25was submitted for today's meeting with

12:28the only exception is that my previous

12:29meetings

12:32sorry before I go further. My name is E.

12:34Colani Flores representing myself and

12:36the Flores case Ohana. So in

12:40compensating my previous testimonies

12:41both written and oral including to and

12:44testimonies being submitted today. I

12:46just want to make one reference

12:48indifference to it. The previous

12:50testimonies asked for a deferral on

12:52these bills 186 and 187, but as the way

12:56things are going at this time, I'm

12:58asking to oppose and to vote no on bills

13:02186 and 187 because it appears there's s

13:07significant widespread

13:09community opposition to this project.

13:12There's only a handful of supporters for

13:14this project and they're either business

13:17associates or the consultants, paid

13:20consultants for the developer or friends

13:23or families of the developer as such and

13:25their consultants. But the overwhelming

13:28opposition to this project has outlined

13:29many of the issues and that has been

13:31spoken of regarding the wildfires. But

13:34I'm just going to highlight two areas

13:36from my testimony that was submitted for

13:39this meeting as such.

13:44This project should not go forward and

13:46it's very clear and simple.

13:48There's a number of things that need to

13:50be done. An environmental assessment for

13:52this project pursuant to chapter 343.

13:56A detailed analysis of how the

13:58developers consultants are determining

14:00the the projected water use and demand.

14:03an inventory of all existing pumping and

14:06authorized planning planned use

14:10of water demand water demand for this

14:12and why aquifer

14:18and there's a number of the things I've

14:20listed in in our previous testimony as

14:23well as this testimony.

14:25One of the things I just like I said two

14:27things I wanted to highlight. One of the

14:29things I wanted to highlight has to do

14:31with

14:34the requirement. According to Hawaii

14:37Revised Statutes, chapter 343,

14:41the Woloa Green LLC project triggers the

14:45required environmental assessment.

14:48>> 30 seconds, please.

14:50>> As you look at this, what would trigger

14:52it? Section 340. Section 343-5,

14:58applicability and requirements.

15:01Except as otherwise provided, an

15:03environmental assessment shall be

15:05required for the actions that quote

15:08number one propose the use of state or

15:11land or county lands. And it continues

15:15on that section. The other section

15:17that's relevant to this project that

15:19triggers the 343 environmental

15:21assessment is item number four. I

15:24apologize Colani but the three minutes

15:25are up. Are you transitioning or are we

15:28if so

15:28>> I'm going to transition to bill 187

15:30which is actually the perfect time here.

15:32>> Thank you.

15:32>> So bill 187 which talks about including

15:37and the the changes for the agricultural

15:42parcel the other large parcel I should

15:44say in that parcel

15:49let me go back. So also point four of

15:51the section 3435 says that number four

15:55propose any use within any historic site

15:58as designated in a national register or

16:00Hawaii register as provided in the

16:02national historic preservation act of

16:041996 public law 89-665

16:08or chapter 6E. So how does this trigger

16:13it? as noted in the the archeological

16:17field inventory or site visit field

16:20visit that was done by AMS consultants

16:24the archeological film I mean

16:25archeological firm they identified a

16:29trail that predates the highways act of

16:321892 that was further confirmed and

16:35tatach testimony was given by the nah

16:39nalah

16:41access trail program manager also

16:43affirmed that this land I should say

16:47this trail that runs through the project

16:50is government owned according to

16:52highways act 1892 and it's present state

16:54law it's government owned as such it's

16:57state property it's state land if it's

17:00state land that would trigger

17:03environmental assessment according to

17:04chapter 343

17:06as such and because it's an historic

17:09site in the capacity of under 6e E

17:13chapter 6E as such it was also trigger

17:16an environment assessment. The other

17:18point going further on is it has about

17:20the water.

17:23The WO consultants

17:26have been given misinformation

17:28convoluted everything that has about

17:30this water situation. It's not about a

17:33theory or what they think the water is

17:35like. No,

17:37the Commission on Water Resources

17:39Management has designated the Hawaii

17:41aquifers sustainable yield at 16 million

17:44gallons per day.

17:47Now, the the the figures is being close

17:50to what's being drawn. It is close to

17:52the sustainable yield, but that does not

17:54take even into account of all the

17:57authorized plan uses and other approvals

18:00that have been given for this area here.

18:02that's not even taken into account of

18:04what's already being drawn.

18:05>> 30 seconds, please.

18:07>> And what I just have to say is that the

18:10the the after this and issue was brought

18:14to light, then the consultants went and

18:16got another engineers report that

18:19drastically reduced it by 72% of what

18:21the water demand is. That's ridiculous.

18:24Somebody's wrong. How can one letter

18:27initially say it's this amount and then

18:29it's 72% less? What I'm saying is when I

18:32went to the records, when you look at

18:34the agricultural

18:36and data, I mean analyst, I mean the

18:40model.

18:40>> Thank you so much for your testimony,

18:41Colony. I'm sorry, but we're going to

18:43have to move on. Chair, your next

18:45testifier via Zoom is Michelle Stfanic

18:47testifying on bills 186 and 187 to be

18:50followed by Dwight Vicente. Michelle,

18:51when you're ready to begin, you can

18:52unmute your mic, introduce yourself, and

18:55you'll have three minutes per agenda

18:56item if you can clearly transition. If

18:58not, it's three minutes total.

19:00Okay. Can you hear me first?

19:02>> Yes, we can.

19:03>> Okay. Aloha, chair and council members.

19:06My name is Michelle Stefanic and I'm a

19:08resident of Waloa Village. I'm

19:09testifying in opposition to Bill 186.

19:12I'm not opposed to housing and I'm not

19:14opposed to Waloa Green simply because

19:17it's another development in the village.

19:19I understand this project will take

19:21years for residents to actually move in.

19:24That is exactly why now is the time to

19:26require the infrastructure that must be

19:28in place before occupancy occurs. I want

19:31to remind you once again that the

19:34county's own 2008 South Cohalla

19:36Community Development Plan identified a

19:39second access road for Waloa Village as

19:42a very high priority. 18 years later, we

19:45still do not have that permanent road,

19:48nor do we even know where it'll be. The

19:51recent completed evacuation traffic

19:53study estimated approximately four and a

19:56half hours for the last vehicle to

19:58evacuate under its model conditions. But

20:02I attended that meeting where those

20:04results were presented and the

20:06consultant specifically explained that

20:08this was not a wildfire evacuation

20:11study. The model assumed all roads

20:14remained available. Yet during previous

20:16fires, the upper portion of Waloa road

20:18headed Malca has been closed. So even

20:21that four and a half hour number does

20:24not tell us how long it would take to

20:25actually evacuate Waloa. The current

20:29with the current population during a

20:31wildfire. Let's not even think about how

20:34many more residents are going to be

20:35coming. And also remember that Lahina

20:38burned in 90 minutes. So we're well over

20:41that. Um, more importantly, we still do

20:44not have a cumulative wildfire

20:46evacuation study that evaluates what

20:49happens when you combine our current

20:50population with all of the additional

20:53developments now being proposed before

20:56we continue increasing the number of

20:58people who may someday need to evacuate

21:01this community at some time. We need to

21:03know whether they can actually get out

21:05or not. I understand it may seem unfair

21:08to place the burden on one developer

21:10when several developments have already

21:13moved forward, but at some point the

21:16council has to draw a line and say no

21:19more growth until infrastructure catches

21:21up. If every development is approved

21:23because it would be unfair for the

21:26particular developer to be told to wait,

21:29then no developer would ever be told to

21:31wait. I respectfully ask you to delay

21:34bill 186

21:35>> until cumulative wildfire evacuation

21:38study is completed and necessary

21:40infrastructure is identified. At an

21:43absolute minimum, require an enforcable

21:45condition that no occupancy resulting

21:47from this project can occur until the

21:50second road is fully functioning. Okay.

21:52Now, I'm going to transition to bill

21:54187. Um, is the timer reset?

21:57>> Yes, ma'am.

21:59>> Okay. For bill 187, I ask that you delay

22:02the approval until Waloa's critical

22:05infrastructure and wildfire evacuation

22:08capacities are adequately addressed.

22:11That the issue is not whether Waloya

22:13Greens is a good project considered by

22:15itself. The issue is a cumulative impact

22:19of continuing to approve development in

22:21a community that already has inadequate

22:25evacuation capacity. We currently have

22:28approximately 7,000 residents. We have

22:30multiple developments moving forward

22:32that could add thousands more to this

22:35community. Yet, where is the cumu

22:39cumulative wildfire evacuation study

22:42that evaluates all of those people

22:44evacuating together? And 4 and a half

22:47hour evacuation traffic study is not

22:50that study, the one that we just had. It

22:54did not model the actual wildfire

22:56evacuation. It assumed roads were

22:59available and from previous fires, we

23:02know that the upper road has already

23:03been closed. Before approving thousands

23:06of additional residents to live in

23:09Waloa, the council needs a wildfire

23:12evacuation study that studies the

23:15cumulative

23:17evacuation. The council has already

23:19appropriated 2.5 million towards

23:22planning and design for a second wala

23:24road. Yet our mayor has refused to spend

23:27those funds for the you for that use at

23:30this time. Mayor Alama has publicly

23:36characterized a full-time second road as

23:38being more about convenience than

23:40emergency. But when our existing

23:42evacuation traffic model already takes

23:45approximately 4 and a half hours and

23:48does not even model the conditions of an

23:50actual wildfire, I cannot accept that

23:53this is simply about convenience. As

23:56long as development continues to be

23:57approved without requiring the

23:59infrastructure to accompanying it, there

24:02is no deadline in forcing the

24:04infrastructure to finally be completed.

24:06So at what point do we stop and require

24:09the road first? I am not asking you to

24:12stop housing forever. Waloa Greens will

24:14not be occupied tomorrow. There is time

24:17to solve this problem. Use that time.

24:20Require the cumulative wildfire

24:22evacuation study to be completed prior

24:24to determine

24:26>> what infrastructure is actually needed.

24:29I respectfully ask Bill 187 to be either

24:33denied or at a minimum create an

24:36enforcable amendment so that no

24:38certificates of occupancy can be issued

24:41until a permanent second access road is

24:44completed, opened, and fully

24:46operational. The residents of Waloa have

24:49been asking for this road for decades,

24:51and the county itself called it a very

24:53high priority in 2008. Please protect

24:56both the people who live in Waloa today

24:58and the thousands of future res

25:00residents.

25:01>> Thank you so much for your testimony,

25:03Michelle. We're going to have to move

25:04on. Chair, your next testifier via Zoom

25:06is Dwight Vicente to be followed by Alen

25:09Chocol here in the Hilo Chamber. Dwight,

25:12when you're ready to begin, please

25:13unmute your mic by hitting star six,

25:15introducing yourself, and you'll have

25:17three minutes per agenda item if you

25:18clearly transition. If not, it's three

25:20minutes total.

25:22uh D which was sent to represent the

25:24Hang Kingdom under the 1840 H Kingdom

25:27constitution in the 1848 Mahel which is

25:30a Kanaka land trust lands became crown

25:33and government lands no longer was the

25:35leasing the land was going to be leased

25:38out under the king uh this probably

25:42white collo is all over it's it consists

25:45of over 2.2 2 million acres that King

25:48Kakao leased out from 1890 to 1920 and

25:52it's just leased out. It was never sold

25:55under the 1848 Mahel. Now to understand

25:59the land issues here in this kingdom,

26:02you got to look at what the Banana

26:03Republic did in 1894.

26:06did they took away the uh land trust

26:09over 1,750,000

26:11acres of crown and government lands they

26:13had no lease contract on

26:16uh King Kakawa did the 90 year I mean

26:20the 30-year lease contract from 1890 to

26:231920

26:25those leases ended in 1920 the less

26:29claimed today to own the land and how to

26:32get away with it in 1955 under 86 the

26:36state land use commission the state of

26:39Hawaii assumed jurisdiction which it was

26:41never these are not the seated lands now

26:44these are the lease lands and that's why

26:46they call it agriculture and the state

26:48land use commission was created in 1959

26:51for the purpose that in 1955

26:56so in 1959 the state could assume

26:59jurisdictional over the lands that

27:01weren't seated by the banana republic

27:03public

27:05and the planning commission was also

27:09created. And you notice they're using

27:11commissions to do where the constitution

27:14has no authority. That's because it's

27:16illegal. So what happened was uh state

27:20land use commission is making all these

27:22decisions over land. They have no

27:24jurisdiction over changing what was

27:27under King Calaka 30-year lease contract

27:30to giving them jurisdiction over the

27:31lease by claiming some foreigner owns

27:34the land today. That's that's a fraud.

27:38So that's why the state land use

27:40commission in is and is is involved

27:44187 the planning commission. Now the

27:47planning commission is another

27:48commission to usurp jurisdiction over

27:52lands that was not seated in 1898.

27:55That's they were created to develop

27:58these lands as an economic development

28:02knowing that the sugar plantation was

28:05going to lose the federal subsidy which

28:07they eventually lost in the 1980s.

28:11Uh New Orleans sued over the the

28:15subsidies and group. They won the the uh

28:18sugar plantation lost it subsidies. So

28:21they sold the lands as if they own the

28:23lands. They never owned the lands. And

28:25that's why we got all these problems

28:27now. People don't know the history. They

28:29don't know this. They're in the Hawaiian

28:30Kingdom. Kingdom Hawaiian kingdom's

28:32treaties ended in 1897. But they're

28:35here. They're here because the US is

28:37claiming jurisdiction

28:40under the uh 1875 reciprocity

28:44proclamation which put it the the US

28:47citizens here under protectorate stat

28:50which cannot do under the US

28:52constitution because the protectorate

28:54status is under the northwest ordinance

28:56of July 1787.

28:58So that is all the some of the illegal

29:01things that's going on and that's why

29:02there's all these people complaining

29:04because they don't know the history.

29:05They should go out there and read the

29:07history so they know why the problem is

29:09there. It's going to stay there as long

29:12as they don't go back and resolve the

29:14history. State of Hawaii is

29:16illegitimate. Same with the county

29:18illegitimate. It's created under the

29:20Northwest Ordinance of July 1787. That's

29:23the Ohio River Valley only. There's no

29:25amendment. So why apply that Indian law

29:28to the Hawaiian Kingdom? And that

29:31Northwest Ordinance go back to the

29:32Continental Congress 1776. That's how

29:35that that one started. But this is

29:38Hawaiian Kingdom. We're not under the

29:40Northwest Ordinance. It never was. And

29:42there's no amendment to put the Hawaiian

29:44Kingdom under that ordinance.

29:47So this uh land use uh the planning

29:51commission is trying to usurp

29:54jurisdiction over the lands that they

29:55don't have jurisdiction over and they

29:58cannot the county cannot get

29:59jurisdiction through that and through

30:01the planning commission uh planning

30:03department. What all they're doing is

30:05creating more fraud over fraud making it

30:08hard and the courts don't have

30:09jurisdiction. That's another problem. So

30:12a lot of these things got to be looked

30:14at and you have to question why doesn't

30:18have jurisdiction.

30:20>> Okay. With this I'll reserve the rights

30:22of his kingdom under the 1890

30:26uh 1893

30:27Queen's protest against US Minister

30:29Stevens. Nefarious US Minister Stevens.

30:33Thank you.

30:36>> Thank you for your testimony chair. Our

30:37next two testifiers are here in the Hilo

30:39Chamber. Alen Chalker to be followed by

30:43Kathleen Keane. Asyn when you're ready

30:45to begin, please introduce yourself and

30:46you'll have three minutes per agenda

30:48item if you can clearly transition.

30:50>> Okay. Aloha, Chair Kimble. Members of

30:52the committee, my name is Alen Chocker.

30:54I'm sure you guys are familiar with my

30:56husband at this point. Until recently,

30:59my family and I lived in Woa Village.

31:01This summer, we made the really

31:03difficult decision to move to a

31:05different part of South Kala. Frankly,

31:07we had to remove ourselves and our

31:09daughter from the wildfire risk that we

31:11know too much about at this point. I'm

31:15still here today because I love the

31:16community. My neighbors and my friends

31:19still live there. I'm testifying in

31:21opposition to Bill 186. You've heard the

31:23facts about water and infrastructure. I

31:25will not repeat them. Just in the last

31:27two hearings of these bills, the council

31:29received more than 100 letters of

31:31testimony in opposition, including mine,

31:33and I implore you to read them. You

31:36already have in front of you what the

31:38community who lives there wants. This

31:41project may look good for the area on

31:43paper, and maybe it is, but the people

31:45who live alongside of where this

31:47development is planned and share one

31:49road and one water system are telling

31:52you this is too much. This is an

31:54overburdened region with no plan to

31:57manage the growth that this council

31:59continues to approve. When this many

32:02residents speak up and say something, I

32:04believe that deserves more weight than

32:06any project summary. So my ask on bill

32:09186 is that you listen to the community.

32:11Please vote no and slow development in

32:13Walo Village until there is an actual

32:16approved plan and funding for the road

32:18and water infrastructure to support the

32:20people who already live there. Now I'm

32:23I'd like to speak on bill 187.

32:26I also oppose bill 187. Between the last

32:29hearing and today, Hawaii Water Service,

32:32the private company that services Woa

32:34Village, put Waloa under a mandatory

32:36water conservation advisory. So, four of

32:39the eight wells that serve the community

32:42right now are out of service. Repairs

32:45are expected to take 2 to 3 months.

32:47Every single household has been ordered

32:49to cut non-essential water by 25%.

32:52And this week, the county department of

32:54water supply issued a very strong

32:56essential use only notice for South

32:58Kohala coast from Kauhai to Mount Alani.

33:01And it is very hard for me to imagine

33:03adding hundreds of new residents to a

33:05water system that cannot fully support

33:07the ones it already has. I want to say

33:10one more thing as someone born and

33:12raised on Aahu who lived in Waloa for 10

33:14years.

33:15I often hear WO described as a place

33:18full of privileged people from the

33:20continent who complain too much and

33:22already have enough. That is not the

33:24Waloa I know. The median household

33:27income is $80,000 and one in eight

33:30residents live in poverty. My daughter's

33:32preschool class was full of parents who

33:34worked at the resorts, worked two jobs,

33:36struggled to buy groceries. We bought

33:38our home in 2015 because it was one of

33:40the few places we could afford as

33:42first-time home buyers. But I hear this

33:45idea enough, a community full of

33:47mainlanders, that I'm starting to think

33:49the idea has permeated into some of the

33:51brains of our decision makers. And maybe

33:54it's the reason why this community

33:55continues to feel neglected. Our mayor

33:58went on social media and said, "You guys

34:01have plenty. You have a new park. You

34:03got a you have a stoplight."

34:05Respectfully, that is not what this

34:07community has been asking for for 18

34:10years. We are not asking for nicities.

34:13The families of W Koa deserve to feel

34:16safe in their homes just like every

34:17family in your districts. My family

34:20stopped being safe feeling safe. And

34:22after three years of testifying, meeting

34:24with the mayor, the governor, state

34:27reps, federal reps, we realized we just

34:30had to leave. So yes, we need housing.

34:33But the people who already live in Waloa

34:35need to feel safe first. Approving more

34:37homes before a road and water are fixed

34:39are putting people in harm's way. Please

34:42do not repeat the mistakes of past

34:44councils. Please listen to the people in

34:46this room and slow down until Wo's Road

34:50and Water can keep its family safe.

34:51Mahalo.

34:53>> Thank you for your testimony. Chair, our

34:55next two testifiers are Kathleen Keane

34:57and Donald Elder. Please feel free for

34:59you both to come down to the testifier

35:00table. Kathleen, when you're ready to

35:03begin, please introduce yourself and

35:04you'll have three minutes per agenda

35:06item if you can clearly transition.

35:07>> Thank you. My name is Kathy Keane and

35:11I've lived in Waloa village for 20 years

35:14and I'm testifying in opposition to

35:16bills 186 and 187. When the Monaf fire

35:20happened in 2021, I sat in my car on

35:23Queen K Highway looking up at the

35:25village, fearing my home and my

35:28community would be totally destroyed. I

35:31was on Creek because I live on Hulu

35:34Street, yards away from the beginning of

35:37the evacuation road. It's the only

35:39reason I was able to get down there

35:41because many friends and neighbors were

35:43stranded on Walora Road, the only road

35:46out. The situation is worse now with the

35:50possibility of many, many more residents

35:52and the real fact that our

35:53infrastructure is not adequate to handle

35:56such an increase without additional

35:58support,

36:00including adequate water to fight such a

36:03fire. Enough water will likely not be

36:06available. You've already heard that

36:07four of the eight wells that cover Wyoa

36:10are inoperable and will take months to

36:12repair. And are you all aware that Waloa

36:15did not get any rain during the last

36:19storm? None.

36:22We are being asked, as you've heard, to

36:25limit water used to essential needs

36:27only, drinking,

36:29cooking, and personal hygiene. If Hiko

36:32initiates a power shut off due to winds

36:34which are part of life in Waloa, the

36:37remaining operable wells will also be

36:39losing power.

36:42With the likelihood of fire real

36:45current inadequate evacuation capa

36:47capability and now possibly not enough

36:49water to fight a fire, we are in real

36:52danger. If our community is asked to add

36:55thousands more residents without the

36:57proper environmental review of the known

36:59hazards and specific plans to address

37:02them, Walova needs more homes and

37:05especially affordable ones. The problem

37:08is that our infrastructure is not ready

37:10for this growth. We still, as you know,

37:13have one road out for over 7,000 people.

37:16In a wildfire, firefighters rely on a

37:19water system whose reliability during

37:21emergencies is still an open question at

37:23the Public Utilities Commission.

37:26More work needs to be done before these

37:28bills go forward. And I respectfully ask

37:30this committee not to advance bills 186

37:34and 187, which would increase

37:36development internal intensity in a high

37:39risk wildfire hazard area. Contrary to

37:43general plan policy 12.6, the

37:47environmental review required under HS

37:50chapter 343 should be completed,

37:53including a review of wildfire hazard

37:55and evacuation capacity. Such

37:58infrastructure must be a priority when

38:00major housing projects are being

38:02considered. And we are counting on you,

38:04our elected council members, to make

38:08this priority. Thank you for listening.

38:12Thank you for your testimony. Chair,

38:13your next testifier is Donald Elder to

38:15be followed by Serena Hernandez. Serena,

38:18please feel free to come down. Donald,

38:19when you're ready to begin, please hit

38:21that button to turn the mic on.

38:23Introduce yourself and you'll have three

38:24minutes per agenda item if you can

38:26clearly transition. Thank you.

38:27>> Hi, I'm I'm [clears throat] Donald

38:29Elder. I live in Waloa Village. Uh I'm

38:32here in opposition to 186 and 187. Uh I

38:36was a family physician. I'm a retired

38:38family physician who worked in Himea

38:40from 93 to98 and in North Kohala from

38:442014

38:45uh 2007 to 2014.

38:48I was uh had to vacate during the

38:51evacuation for the uh Mona Road fire in

38:542021. Uh I would like to point out that

38:57the evacuation order went out at noon on

39:00August the 1st uh and uh was by the time

39:04it was lifted 6 hours later there were

39:07still people stranded in gridlock trying

39:09to get out of the community. So, I mean

39:11the 4 and 1/2 hours for the current

39:13population is definitely not applicable

39:16cuz since then there's been at least 553

39:20housing units already approved and

39:23permitted to take place.

39:26Uh I would just like to emphasize the

39:28big picture. Um some would say there's a

39:32huge elephant in the room. I would say

39:35it's not an elephant. It's a fireb

39:37breathing Godzilla.

39:39And uh we all feel trapped already.

39:41Please don't make it worse.

39:44That's all.

39:46>> Thank you so much for your testimony,

39:48chair. Your next testifier is Serena

39:50Hernandez to be followed by Sean Elder.

39:52Sean, please feel free to come down.

39:54Serena, when you're ready to begin,

39:55please introduce yourself and you'll

39:56have three minutes per agenda item if

39:58you can clearly transition. Thank you.

40:00>> Mahalo. Um aloha, Chair Kimbo, Vice

40:02Chair Onishi, and members of this

40:04committee. My name is Serena Hernandez.

40:06I am a full-time resident in W Koa

40:08village. I was born and raised in Hawaii

40:10and returned in 2023 after spending

40:12almost two decades on the mainland for

40:14higher education and a successful career

40:16in tech. I testify in opposition of the

40:19bills being presented today. I won't be

40:21spending my limited time discussing

40:23wildfire. I hope that concern is coming

40:25through to you loud and clear from my

40:26fellow neighbors. Instead, I want to use

40:28my my very limited time to share what

40:30I've experienced firsthand as a

40:31full-time resident. Agriculture. I'm a

40:34member of the Waloa gardening community

40:36and I'm probably one of the few people

40:38in this room who's attempted to grow

40:39food in this village after purchasing a

40:42quarter gillot in Waloa. I designed a

40:44very substantial part of my outside

40:46dwelling around a very large garden. I

40:48see the value of growing food and the

40:50resilience it provides. Don't get me

40:52wrong, my family also shops at Costco. I

40:54eat the same cakey cuces and camoa

40:56tomatoes as half this island, but I've

40:59always aspired to have acorage of my own

41:01one day and feed my community. I've

41:03spent the last three years attempting to

41:05do that and have learned firsthand that

41:08it's nearly impossible in WoWa. For the

41:10sake of time, I'll narrow it down to my

41:12own lived experience. First, it's the

41:14earth itself. Woah has no lush soil. You

41:18cannot meaningfully grow food directly

41:20into the ground as you'll just hit

41:22endless lava rock. This is very

41:24different from Hamakua Coast, Haloa, and

41:27so forth. This has required me to pivot

41:29to a fully raised garden system. And on

41:31a monthly basis, I'm buying large

41:33quantities of soil and creating vertical

41:35trellis structures. I have spent years

41:38improving the soil quality of my garden,

41:40including composting every food scrap. I

41:43raise my own worms. I incorporate native

41:46and pollinator loving species. And

41:48despite everything I've learned, I

41:51struggle every day to grow food in this

41:53environment. Secondly is water. W Colo

41:56receives a fraction of rainfall compared

41:58to other parts of the island, making

42:00rain catchment an infeasible and

42:02unreliable option. I water at night so

42:05the sun doesn't evaporate everything I

42:07just used. I use my resource of water

42:09very wisely. And with the new water

42:11restrictions being put in place as of

42:13last week in WLOA, I will need to cut

42:15back on using water and gardening and

42:18watering my garden. This will cause more

42:20damage to my growing space and the food

42:22source that I'm trying to grow for my

42:24family. Now imagine the implications of

42:26future growers in this area at a much

42:29larger scale if this development were to

42:31proceed. This is

42:32>> 30 seconds please.

42:32>> This is the reality of a very limited

42:34water system. Lastly is wind. You know

42:36wind is an issue because we always talk

42:38about wildfire and the deep fear that

42:40this community has. I have built a

42:42six-foot rock wall around my property

42:44and still the daily winds of white cola

42:46harm my garden. I lost most of my garden

42:48to hurricane Lala and whatever was left

42:50was destroyed in Hurricane Nolo. I will

42:53rebuild. But my ask here is please do

42:54not be enthralled by the idea that this

42:56development has unearthed some sort of

42:59new magical agriculture source on the

43:01island. It hasn't. And to conclude, one

43:03of the target audiences of this planned

43:05development is to sell lots to

43:07multigenerational families. Me, I live

43:10in a multigenerational household. I am

43:13someone who has the financial and

43:14physical means to grow food. And

43:16however, let my lived experience be a

43:18cautionary tale. Mahal.

43:20>> Thank you so much for your testimony,

43:21Serena. chair. Our next testifier is

43:23Sean Elder, testifying on bills 186 and

43:26187. Sean, when you're ready to begin,

43:27please introduce yourself and you'll

43:28have three minutes if you can clearly

43:30transition between the items.

43:32>> Good afternoon, uh, Chair Kimell and

43:34other members of the committee. I am

43:37here in opposition of bills 186 and 187.

43:43My husband and I moved to the village in

43:452008 when the population was

43:48approximately 5,000, maybe a little

43:50less. And it wasn't until 2021 that we

43:54ever had to evacuate.

43:57We fled quickly once the siren sounded.

44:02It was just the two of us. We'd been

44:04watching the fire.

44:07We

44:09faced traffic getting out of the village

44:13onto Waloa Road. And we were probably

44:18uh 20 minutes after this siren sounded.

44:22And quite honestly, it was very scary.

44:26We didn't know where to go. We thought,

44:27"Okay, downhill. Let's go to the ocean."

44:30And we ended up at Monolani

44:33uh at a park there. And we could see the

44:39and we watched all afternoon as the the

44:42fire the black smoke came rolling down

44:45the mountain. Um,

44:48since then, since 2021,

44:52um, there have been

44:56over 500 new homes that have been

44:59approved and are in the process of being

45:02built.

45:04Um, the infrastructure of the village

45:08has changed a little. the school was

45:12able to get the kids out of uh portable

45:16buildings and into a new um new

45:22classrooms in 2020. There are over 700

45:25children that attend the Walleis school

45:28system. With all of the new um building

45:32and the families that will be here, I'm

45:34not sure that that's adequate. Um,

45:38we do have two more wells than what we

45:42did have when I first moved to um the

45:46village. Uh, we are now a population of

45:51half as many again as lived there when

45:54we first moved. Of our eight wells, um,

45:59we're four of them are down. Today, um,

46:04we were issued 30 seconds, please.

46:07>> Um,

46:09water instructions to just minimize use,

46:13just cooking and drinking and personal

46:16hygiene. Um,

46:20I want to emphasize that the new

46:23development, the 777

46:26homes that will be built, they're only

46:31their only way out is the same road that

46:34we use. Waloa road. I hope you have been

46:38to Waloa. I hope you have seen the land

46:42that is being proposed to be developed.

46:46Um,

46:49is that it?

46:51Okay. Thank you for your time and please

46:56do not pass these bills. Lives depend on

46:59it.

47:00>> Thank you so much for your testimony.

47:01And with that, chair, those are all the

47:03testifiers you have at this time.

47:06Thank you very much, Mr. Arselli. Mr.

47:08Clerk, if you could read in the agenda

47:11item.

47:13>> We'll start with 187

47:15body

47:17>> after it's both are read in or just

47:20read, please. Thank you.

47:21>> Okay. Bill 186 amends the state land use

47:23district boundaries map. I change

47:24district classification from

47:25agricultural to urban at Wala South Kala

47:28Hawaii. Covered by tax, excuse me,

47:30covered by portion of tax map key

47:3168002016.

47:33This matter was postponed September 1

47:35and 15, 2026. And there's a motion on

47:37the floor by council member Houston,

47:38seconded by council member Kirkways to

47:40recommend passage 186 and first reading.

47:43And we have bill7 draft 3 which amends

47:45section 25-8-14

47:48yoa village district zone map article 8

47:50chapter 25 of the Hawaii County code

47:522016 edition as amended by change of

47:54district classification residential and

47:56agriculture 1 acre and open to multiple

47:58family residential 1,500 ft family

48:01agriculture 1 acre agriculture 10 acres

48:04and open at wlua south kohala Hawaii

48:06covered by portion of tax map key

48:08680002016

48:10applicant wlua green LLC area 14.868 868

48:13acres. The plan commission forwards his

48:15favor recommendation for this amendment

48:17to the St. Luke's boundaries map for the

48:18requested change of Z and for the

48:20requested change of zone which allow the

48:21applicant to develop a 400 unit multi

48:24family housing complex with a couple

48:26house and related improvements

48:27properties located at the southeast side

48:29of Pua Millia Street approximately 810

48:31ft south of its intersection with white

48:33road. Both bills were introduced by

48:36request uh excuse me by council member

48:38Kimble by request. Um, this bill was

48:40also postponed September 1 and 15, 2026.

48:42And there's a motion on the floor by

48:44council member Huis, seconded by council

48:45member Kirkowish to recommend passage of

48:47bill7 on first reading. Madame chair,

48:50please declare which motion is on the

48:51floor.

48:52>> Uh, 187, please. Draft three. All right,

48:57moving forward. Um, before we begin, I

48:59just want to confirm that everybody on

49:00the dis has received the three

49:02communications that were requested last

49:04time. one from Hawaii Water Service, one

49:06from um Seaworm and one from our own

49:10Department of Water Supply with respect

49:12to usage and um usage that had been is

49:17allocated but not actually connected to

49:19at this point. Um I hope that we we just

49:22got the Seaworm one last night, but I do

49:24want to mention that the deputy director

49:26for Seaworm is on Zoom. I believe if

49:29somebody from the clerk's office can

49:30confirm that if we have any Oh, there

49:32you are. Thank you. um if we have any

49:34additional questions about that

49:36communication for them. Um everybody has

49:40the the three communications I

49:43mentioned. Yes. Okay. Um we also have

49:46the communication from Mr. Pippen on the

49:49application. Um Mr. Mr. Rippen, I will

49:51give you the option to take 10 minutes

49:53to go over that if you'd like or um we

49:57can just get into deliberations and you

49:59can refer. We do have hard copies of

50:01that here in front of us if um but I

50:04don't want to take more than 10 minutes

50:06on it before we get to the council

50:07conversation.

50:11Okay, come on up and you can cover that

50:14and I'll have Mr. Arselli come and bring

50:16it up on the laptop.

50:26We we do have the presentation both

50:28digitally and um as a hard copy here.

50:37>> Yes. 0.17. Thank you.

50:52>> [clears throat]

50:57>> Hello. Um, I guess we're intending to

51:00have John uh do a slide presentation,

51:02but I think you have that in front of

51:04you. Um, so uh if there's any questions

51:07about that presentation that's up on the

51:09board, uh, I'd ask you to ask John

51:11Pippen the questions. I think John and I

51:13are just going to do a little bit of a

51:15talk u about what we sort of what John

51:18was going to present.

51:19>> Mr. Popkin, if you could just introduce

51:20yourself for the record, please.

51:21>> I'm sorry. My name is Daniel Popkin. I'm

51:23a principal with White Kaloa Green. Um,

51:25excuse me. And um, so we're just going

51:28to go through a quick presentation. John

51:29Yoshimura and I and if there any

51:31questions, John Pippen's the one that

51:33provided you with all this documentation

51:35about the aquafer and the questions that

51:37were asked last time. So, thank you,

51:39Chair Anaba and Kimell, council members

51:42for welcoming us back and for the care

51:44that you have brought to this proposal.

51:46John and I are asking for your yes vote

51:48on White Kaloa Green's resoning so we

51:51can take the next step toward housing

51:52for working families with the

51:54protections that you have helped shape.

51:56After four years of work, we remain

51:57hopeful about what this project can give

52:00back to the community. We envision

52:02families living near jobs and everyday

52:04services, children walking and learning

52:06in community gardens. near near a food

52:08hub supporting local food production.

52:12Our more than 600 homes will only meet a

52:15small part of the island's housing need,

52:17but for the families who will live

52:18there, that opportunity could make a

52:20lasting difference. We carefully located

52:23the 400 rental homes within the new

52:25general plans urban density area near

52:28the shopping center, post office, and

52:30the signalized Waloa Road intersection.

52:33We [snorts] have also voluntarily

52:35committed to a rentto own program for

52:36these homes, creating another potential

52:39path toward ownership. Your questions

52:41have made this proposal stronger. Chair

52:44Nava's amendment ties our affordable

52:46housing obligations to market rate

52:48development, water conservation

52:50requirements, firewise measures, and

52:53drainage mitigation help put community

52:55needs into the project's conditions. We

52:58take evacuation concerns seriously. We

53:00have begun discussions with wildfire

53:02safety advocates, Councilman Hustus, and

53:05neighboring stakeholders about

53:07advocating for a connection to the

53:09proposed Saddle Road relief road. That

53:12is a future opportunity we will continue

53:14to pursue alongside the project's fire

53:16mitigation and education commitments. If

53:19successful, it would provide what I

53:22would call a fourth road out alongside

53:24Waloa Road, Hulu Road, and the soon to

53:28open Kamakoa road evacuation route. On

53:31water, our commitment is clear. No

53:34water, no development. Our September 1st

53:36will serve letter from Hawaii Water

53:39Service identifies our water needs all

53:41the way to full buildout based on their

53:44own letters additional capacity of about

53:472 million gallons a day at this time.

53:50And condition B requires phased

53:52approvals. We must secure the necessary

53:54allocations as the project advances

53:57advances. Without them, no certificates

53:59of occupancy can be issued. Also, as we

54:02have learned more about the Himea

54:04aquifer, and this was what John would

54:06have presented to you, but hopefully

54:07you've read that. Um, we we we learned a

54:10few things. I've certainly learned a lot

54:11about water in the last couple months,

54:13more than I ever expected to know about

54:15aquafers, particularly on the Big

54:17Island, which is a

54:19special place with the porest lava rock.

54:22Certainly different, I guess, from Maui.

54:24I've learned that the aquafer boundary

54:26on a map does not capture every source

54:28of water feeding it. It's not a

54:30hydraological determination but a

54:32geographic one. Of course, White Kaloa

54:34is dry and recharge is not limited to

54:37rain falling directly above our

54:38property. A lot of water also comes from

54:41wetter Malca areas where rainfall, fog,

54:44streams, and other sources contribute to

54:46the groundwater moving toward the coast.

54:48We talked the last time of the aquafer

54:50as a bank account. The wet mountains

54:53help make the deposits even where those

54:55recharge areas extend beyond the map

54:57boundary. our testimony and John's

55:00presentation that you have in front of

55:02you uh uh re uh accounts for

55:06understanding that there's more deposits

55:07than the current estimates recognize. As

55:11described in our testimony, Seaworm has

55:13acknowledged the possibility of

55:14revisiting the aquifer boundary and its

55:16sustainable yield. This gives us reason

55:19for optimism and a chance a reason to

55:21continue careful scientific for review.

55:24For example, Tom Nance, a hydraologist

55:27and geocchemist with an actual boots on

55:29the ground well testing record of these

55:31subject wells, estimates that including

55:34additional upgradient recharge from

55:35approximately 21 miles of North Kahala

55:38Mountain, not included in 2019 when

55:41Seaworm did the estimate could add an

55:43additional 10 to 20 million gallons per

55:45day to the recharge estimate.

55:48Steve Spangler's work uses more refined

55:50and accurate rainfall measurements which

55:52he's currently in the process of

55:54reporting on to help refine our

55:56understanding of Malcoa recharge.

55:58[snorts] USGS and Seaworm at that time

56:01didn't have the more accurate what he

56:02refers to as five minute timestep

56:04methods in 2011 when they did their test

56:0815 years ago. [snorts] Also, isotopic

56:10studies and other research offer

56:12evidence about where groundwater

56:14originates and how it moves.

56:16uh John Pippen's report uh had well

56:19monitoring evidence in it concerning

56:21salinity and chlorides. Effectively

56:24those graphs that are in the report show

56:26that salinity and chlorides have

56:27remained steady for I think at least 20

56:30years and the same with sustainable

56:32yield numbers or pumpage has stayed the

56:35same at that 14 million uh number for

56:3820ome years. Together, these findings

56:40support continued investigation of

56:42whether the current sustainable yield

56:44estimate should be revised. They give us

56:47hope. Seawworm will of course determine

56:48what changes, if any, are warranted.

56:51Also, at the last meeting, you heard

56:52that Seaworm may institute conservation

56:54goals to further strengthen that

56:56outlook. If that happens, and of course

56:58we believe it should, a robust water

57:00conservation program aquaferwide could

57:02save as much as 5 million gallons a day.

57:05But the most important protection does

57:07not depend on every expert estimate

57:09estimate proving correct. If additional

57:11water is not confirmed or climate change

57:14reduces recharge sooner than later, your

57:17condition B remains the safeguard. We

57:19must secure the necessary water

57:21approvals and allocations at each phase

57:24as it advances. Clearly stated, no

57:27water, no development. We're asking for

57:29the opportunity to move forward through

57:31that protected process to keep studying,

57:34conserve water, meet the required

57:36approvals, and work toward homes for

57:38Hawaii Islands working families. Thank

57:41you for helping us move this vision

57:42closer to reality. And I'll end with

57:44John.

57:45>> Thank you. Uh, you know, before I begin,

57:47I have very a very brief closing

57:49comments, about a minute. Um, I I

57:52learned how to debate in high school and

57:5550 years later I look back at that as a

57:58good thing and a bad thing, but it's

58:00almost like I can't let an allegation um

58:05Oh, I'm so sorry.

58:07>> My name's John Yoshimura. Uh, I'm one of

58:10the principles of Waloa Green. Uh, there

58:14are a couple of things that were said

58:16that I I I just need to correct. First

58:19of all, you know, we support the white

58:23uh the wildfire safety advocates.

58:26They're frustrated. They're scared. They

58:29thought something was going to happen.

58:31You know, it's been 18 years. That's a

58:33generation. We support them. I don't

58:36blame them for their frustration.

58:38They've got First Amendment rights. They

58:40They have all the right to come out here

58:41and oppose us. I would like to correct a

58:44couple things, though. Um Mr. Yonke

58:48suggested that because the planning

58:51department didn't put anything in the

58:53report to the planning commission about

58:56wildfire safety that nothing was said at

59:00the planning commission. There was a re

59:02a robust discussion of this very issue

59:06and despite that the planning commission

59:09voted unanimously to advance our

59:12project. Another thing that Mr. Yankee

59:15said really kind of uh

59:19was sort of a cheap shot. Um you know he

59:22suggested that there had been some sort

59:24of cover up between the planning

59:27department and us to kind of ignore

59:32the the wildfire safety issue.

59:36I I can assure you that there was no

59:39cover up. There was no coordination or

59:42idea to try to minimize this issue. And

59:45I'm really offended by this comment

59:48because we have worked in good faith

59:51with the wildfire safety associates to

59:54try to within our ability do things to

59:58minimize the risk of wildfire

1:00:01in Waloa.

1:00:03Mr. Chalker talked about 7779

1:00:06units. This is this is a more minor um

1:00:09correction. and we actually have 675

1:00:12units.

1:00:14With that, I'll start by saying, you

1:00:16know, let's try to see where we all have

1:00:18some common ground. Can we all agree

1:00:21that we need housing for Hawaii Island's

1:00:24working families?

1:00:26We need food sustainability and food

1:00:29security.

1:00:31I think the food bank noted that about

1:00:3447%

1:00:36of Hawaii Island families are actually

1:00:39food insecure.

1:00:41That is a really scary thing.

1:00:47We need to be energy self-reliant.

1:00:51We need to protect valuable open space

1:00:54and cultural resources.

1:00:56Wola green brings all these goals

1:00:59together. The conditions that you have

1:01:01shaped, have helped us shape, gives us a

1:01:06responsible path forward with continued

1:01:09review of water and safety.

1:01:14We respectfully ask for your yes vote on

1:01:17our resoning. Please give us the

1:01:19opportunity to turn these years of

1:01:21planning

1:01:23into homes and a community our working

1:01:26families can be proud of. Thank you very

1:01:29much.

1:01:30>> Thank you. And thank you all for staying

1:01:32within the requested time limit. Um with

1:01:35that, I will present it to the body to

1:01:38um ask any questions of either the

1:01:40department or the applicant or their

1:01:41representative. Council member Eustace,

1:01:43start off with you.

1:01:44>> Thanks, Chair. [clears throat] I first

1:01:46want to acknowledge, you know, the

1:01:48testimony uh and the engagement from the

1:01:51community throughout this process and

1:01:53it's it's been a difficult one and at

1:01:54times contentious uh within the white

1:01:57column community and community members

1:01:59from outside as well who have these you

1:02:01know have strongly held views on both

1:02:04sides and I really appreciate everyone

1:02:05taking the time to participate.

1:02:08You know for me the question has never

1:02:10simply about what what's you know

1:02:12whether we support growth or oppose

1:02:14growth. The question is really about

1:02:15growth and how work can occur

1:02:17responsibly addressing the impacts it

1:02:19creates and protecting the community

1:02:22that is already there. White Clo faces

1:02:25real infrastructure challenges. Wildfire

1:02:27risk and evacuation capacity are serious

1:02:30concerns. Water resources, drainage,

1:02:33roads, schools, and public services all

1:02:35matter in that conversation.

1:02:38At the same time, Wol faces other

1:02:39challenges. We have significant need for

1:02:41housing that working families can

1:02:43afford. We also have vacant commercial

1:02:45spaces and a need for a stronger, more

1:02:47sustainable local economy. And a healthy

1:02:50community needs housing, businesses,

1:02:51infrastructure, public services, and

1:02:54that economic activity kind of working

1:02:56all together there.

1:02:58I also think it's important to recognize

1:03:00how substantiated this proposal has been

1:03:02changed since it's come to council and

1:03:05through the council process. We added

1:03:07resilient wildfire resilience condition

1:03:09requiring that firewise USA principles

1:03:11or an equivalent county approved plan

1:03:12from the get-go. We strengthened

1:03:14drainage and flood mitigation

1:03:17uh requirements based on the the south

1:03:19flood study which the county brought

1:03:20forward and we added significant water

1:03:22conservation requirements and we also

1:03:25strengthened uh sequencing of affordable

1:03:27housing so it moves forward with an

1:03:29overall development and these are

1:03:31meaningful conditions. You know, other

1:03:33development occurring in Waloa in the

1:03:35Walor area does not necessarily carry

1:03:38any of these conditions whatsoever at

1:03:40the same level of wildfire, water

1:03:41conservation, drainage, or affordable

1:03:43housing. Something that the county is

1:03:45going to have to tackle at large in

1:03:47different spaces there.

1:03:49You know, this is not an argument for

1:03:50lowering the standard by any means. You

1:03:52know, I hope the work that we've done

1:03:54helps establish these these stronger

1:03:56expectations for development across the

1:03:58entire county. I also continue to

1:04:00believe that Wolo needs greater roadway

1:04:02uh redundancy. In the past, you know, I

1:04:05secured $2.5 million in our county

1:04:07appropriations and a capital funding for

1:04:08design and engineering for a future

1:04:10permanent arterial road. And I do

1:04:12continue to work with the administration

1:04:13to advance that project and that idea.

1:04:16And the state is separately advancing

1:04:18additional emergency egress routes for

1:04:20the community while continuing efforts

1:04:21on the Daniel Kenoi Highway extension.

1:04:23And there's always more work and

1:04:24collaboration doing all those projects.

1:04:27At the same time, as I've mentioned in

1:04:29the past, you know, I don't believe

1:04:31every long-standing infrastructure

1:04:33problem can be reasonably solved and

1:04:34assigned to one single property owner.

1:04:37This project, as any should be

1:04:39responsible for impacts attributed to

1:04:41that development and while the county

1:04:43and the state in partnership with our

1:04:44our private land owners continue

1:04:46addressing re larger regional needs,

1:04:49particularly in Walo community.

1:04:51Uh, chair, I just have a couple of

1:04:53questions just to kind of wrap up my

1:04:54time here. So, if I could have uh

1:04:56planning director come forward, I just

1:04:58have a couple questions for him.

1:05:16>> Thanks, director.

1:05:21Aloha. Uh Jeff Der with the planning

1:05:24department.

1:05:25>> Thanks director. Uh the first question

1:05:27you know given the amendments the

1:05:29conditions have been placed on the

1:05:30proposal and now incorporated into the

1:05:32measure here. Do you see any other

1:05:35planning deficiencies that would prevent

1:05:38any sort of action on this measure

1:05:40particularly regarding chapter 343?

1:05:43You know that's been come up in

1:05:44testimony and inconsistency with the

1:05:46general plan.

1:05:49uh

1:05:52the

1:05:54statements made regarding chapter 343 in

1:05:58regards to

1:06:00triggering uh the need for an

1:06:02environmental assessment or an

1:06:04environmental impact statement based on

1:06:07um subsection one which is the use of st

1:06:11state or county lands or funds or

1:06:14subsection four that it is triggered by

1:06:19um the

1:06:22um designated um archaeological site or

1:06:26historic site in either the state or the

1:06:29national register. I do not see that as

1:06:32a trigger at this point. there typically

1:06:36in this particular well what's being

1:06:39argued is this particular trail that's

1:06:42identified um is a trigger whether it's

1:06:47under one that it's state land um

1:06:51currently that hasn't been identified as

1:06:54state land there's um what what's

1:06:58happened in our process in the past is

1:07:01if um Naeli gets involved involved with

1:07:05a a particular trail, they will ask that

1:07:08the developer or the land owner separate

1:07:12it out, subdivide it, and separate it

1:07:15out as a separate lot. That could happen

1:07:18in this case. I think it's premature to

1:07:22um say there's a trigger at this point

1:07:24based on the information that's been uh

1:07:28provided as of now.

1:07:31>> Okay. Okay. In the relationship to the

1:07:32general plan,

1:07:35>> the overall it appears that

1:07:39>> so what what's being said is somehow um

1:07:42planning department didn't include

1:07:44anything in this particular application

1:07:47regarding the general plan. Uh obviously

1:07:50that's untrue because that's what we do.

1:07:53We review projects in relation to the

1:07:56general plan. When this particular

1:07:59application came forward, it was under

1:08:01the previous general plan. The new

1:08:04general plan, which was passed in late

1:08:07June, um has it. It appears that uh the

1:08:13amendments made by yourself, by uh

1:08:16council member Inaba and other council

1:08:19members have addressed uh those concerns

1:08:22that are brought up in the current

1:08:24general plan regarding firewise,

1:08:27regarding evacuation routes, regarding

1:08:30wildfire.

1:08:32So in speaking about those conditions

1:08:34you you feel that those adequately

1:08:36addressed. I mean it went through the

1:08:37planning department the review and the

1:08:39planning commission and planning

1:08:41commission attached an amendment

1:08:43regarding the reporting like an annual

1:08:45reporting aspect but when it came to us

1:08:48you know we had an opportunity to uh you

1:08:50know through the legislative process

1:08:51provide other amendments. Do you feel

1:08:53that those amendments, what we provide

1:08:54at the table here, adequately address

1:08:57traffic access, wildfire, drainage,

1:09:00water, those sort of considerations? I

1:09:03do. I mean, it's it's uh this particular

1:09:08uh change of zone application has uh

1:09:11extensive conditions uh that addresses

1:09:14impacts to uh the surrounding areas as

1:09:17well as the community. Um I'm sure

1:09:20there's going to be uh other discussions

1:09:23brought up but at this point um we can

1:09:27address those the impact fees the I mean

1:09:30the uh fair share uh the possible um

1:09:34impact fee for schools those kind of

1:09:36things and and with all those conditions

1:09:39and the ones we've we folded into the

1:09:40measure you know a number of them lay

1:09:44out a path about

1:09:46certain phases is um certain kind of uh

1:09:50touchstone points, benchmarks that have

1:09:51to be met. What what is that what does

1:09:54that kind of look like in terms of some

1:09:55of the questions have been about this

1:09:56certificate of occupancy and ability to

1:09:59actually occupy the space and the land

1:10:01going forward? There are some of those

1:10:03some of the conditions kind of are these

1:10:05roadblocks necessarily the right word

1:10:07but are kind of these uh requirements in

1:10:10terms of moving forward through the

1:10:12process. Um

1:10:15there are a number of them. How many

1:10:17would you say are kind of like in that

1:10:18sort of in that position to kind of be

1:10:21checkpoints for for development and any

1:10:24sort of impact associated with such?

1:10:27>> I I can't give you the exact number but

1:10:29throughout the um throughout the change

1:10:32of zone conditions. There are a number

1:10:36of what you call checkpoints. Um you

1:10:39cannot proceed until this occurs. Um

1:10:43there's also um annual reports required

1:10:46which is uh on these kind of larger

1:10:49projects is um is

1:10:54always put in there to help us

1:10:56understand where the project is in a

1:10:59given time period and how they're

1:11:01proceeding.

1:11:04>> Thank you director. I think I'm okay on

1:11:06questions for now. So thank you chair.

1:11:12All right. Anyone else? Council member.

1:11:14>> Yeah, thank you. Uh I just wanted to

1:11:15recognize deputy director um from

1:11:19Seaworm um Miss Kahane who has joined us

1:11:23via Zoom. Uh she did provide a letter

1:11:27from the commission on water resource

1:11:29management. This is communication

1:11:311025.20

1:11:34and deputy director. Just wanted to give

1:11:36you the opportunity

1:11:38um to shed some light on behalf of

1:11:41Seaworm.

1:11:44>> Aloha and thank you chair deputy

1:11:46director Kira Kohane from the commission

1:11:48on water resource management.

1:11:51I'm here by request of this council to

1:11:55provide a little bit more information

1:11:57about the aquifer and about sustainable

1:11:59yield. Um, if you have any specific

1:12:02questions for me, I'm happy to address

1:12:04them. I'll just briefly go over the

1:12:05content of the communication to council

1:12:08member Kimble so that that may prompt

1:12:11some questions from you all or perhaps

1:12:13not. Um, we were requested to provide

1:12:17figures on wells that are not reporting

1:12:20water use on the island of Hawaii as

1:12:23well as the current authorized planned

1:12:26use for the aquifer system. We went a

1:12:31step further and we looked at the

1:12:33non-reporting wells specifically within

1:12:35the way aquifer system. Um there are a

1:12:38number of non-reporting wells on Hawaii

1:12:40Island, but for this council's current

1:12:43purposes in assessing this development,

1:12:45I think the two most relevant are two

1:12:48production wells within Maya aquifer

1:12:50system that are not reporting. um they

1:12:55together have a total pumping capacity

1:12:57of approximately.1224

1:13:00million gallons a day. If that's added

1:13:03to the existing withdrawals from male

1:13:06aquifer of 14.458

1:13:08million gallons per day, that gives you

1:13:11approximately 91.1%

1:13:14of the current sustainable yield of 16

1:13:16million gallons per day.

1:13:18um this project we didn't receive

1:13:23specific information regarding the

1:13:26estimated water demand. So I'm I'm

1:13:28having to rely on external sources

1:13:30regarding the the water demand for this

1:13:32project. Um in future, you know, we

1:13:36would love the opportunity to provide

1:13:38that kind of information to staff. Um,

1:13:41and so what is really helpful to us is

1:13:44if a project is being proposed, if staff

1:13:48could provide information on the

1:13:50proposed groundwater source, the aquifer

1:13:52in which it's to be located, so that we

1:13:54can then provide information on the

1:13:57current withdrawals, as well as the

1:13:58non-reporting wells. That's something

1:14:00that we're happy to do. Um, regarding

1:14:03authorized planned use, as I discussed

1:14:06more fully in the letter, there's no

1:14:10current um

1:14:13consistently agreed upon definition of

1:14:15of authorized planned use beyond what is

1:14:17currently in the water code. Uh, the

1:14:19water code defines authorized planned

1:14:21use as the use or projected use of water

1:14:23by a development that has received the

1:14:25proper state land use designation and

1:14:27county development plan or community

1:14:28plan approvals. But when a development

1:14:31becomes sufficiently certain or when

1:14:34it's progressed to the point where we're

1:14:36able to accurately estimate water

1:14:38demand, that's never been consistently

1:14:40agreed upon. In 2015, as part of the

1:14:44county of Hawaii's proposed update to

1:14:46its water use and development plan for

1:14:48the Wayo aquifer system, the planning

1:14:51department contemplated that it would

1:14:52supply some updates and refinements of

1:14:55current planning information for the

1:14:57area to be studied and contemplated

1:15:00using the South Kala community

1:15:02development plan and available master

1:15:04plans to refine its water demand

1:15:06projections. Um, at this time there's no

1:15:11there was no update to the Himea water

1:15:15use and development plan. There's no

1:15:16currently accepted and approved water

1:15:19use and development plan that would

1:15:21better enable the commission and this

1:15:23county to determine what authorized

1:15:26planned use for actually is. Um, we can

1:15:31provide on our side water resource

1:15:33information like current withdrawals,

1:15:35sustainable yield, and any reservations

1:15:38for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands

1:15:40that exist within the aquifer. But in

1:15:43large part, we require the county's

1:15:45assistance to identify developments that

1:15:48are to be served by groundwater. Um,

1:15:51because this county administers many of

1:15:53the land use plans and approvals that

1:15:55are relevant to identifying those

1:15:57developments. So in future, we welcome

1:16:01the opportunity to work with staff to

1:16:03develop a workflow that would enable the

1:16:06county and commission to track

1:16:08authorized planned use for HA and for

1:16:11the entire island of Hawaii so that

1:16:13we're better able to understand um

1:16:17whether whether there's cause for um to

1:16:21look more closely at the availability of

1:16:23water in way. I will highlight something

1:16:26that was not included within my

1:16:28communication which is that we completed

1:16:30a deep monitor well located within the Y

1:16:33male aquifer fairly recently. A deep

1:16:35monitor well for those of you who may

1:16:37not be aware um it essentially is is

1:16:40deeper than a normal well. It penetrates

1:16:43all the way into the seawater that the

1:16:45freshwater aquafer lens is floating on

1:16:47top of and it allows commission staff to

1:16:50look more closely at indicators of

1:16:52aquafer health like the midpoint of the

1:16:55transition zone between fresh and salt

1:16:57water. So commission staff have been

1:17:01tracking that um have been monitoring

1:17:03that well starting from February of this

1:17:05year. I don't have a geologist with me

1:17:08right now or anyone from commission

1:17:10staff who would be able to provide a

1:17:12deeper scientific analysis of their

1:17:14findings. At present, we don't see any

1:17:18concerning changes in the midpoint of

1:17:20the transition zone. Um, but

1:17:23I want to emphasize that the sustainable

1:17:26yield of 16 million gallons a day is the

1:17:28approved and accepted standard by which

1:17:32commission staff is is going to

1:17:34determine whether withdrawals are are of

1:17:36concern within WA. Um,

1:17:40we don't currently have information

1:17:42based on our current information. We do

1:17:44not have cause for particular concern

1:17:47but that is given the current

1:17:49withdrawals within the way aquifer and

1:17:51the current amount of recharge. Um

1:17:55future developments you know may cause a

1:17:57change in those conditions and we will

1:18:00continue to evaluate whether or not the

1:18:03conditions are sufficient to cause us to

1:18:06um take action to designate as a

1:18:08groundwater management area. So with

1:18:10that um I'm available if you have any

1:18:13questions. Thank you very much, Deputy

1:18:15Director Kahane. Um, I'm going to ask a

1:18:18quick question of the planning

1:18:19department. I know you folks submitted

1:18:21communication 1025.16,

1:18:25which was the surrounding property owner

1:18:27report required in accordance with

1:18:30section 25-2-42C4

1:18:33of the code. Was this included in the

1:18:36original transmission of um the bills?

1:18:40>> It was not. It was overlooked. Uh, so it

1:18:42was brought up, I believe, by council

1:18:45member Connie Ali Kleinfelder and we put

1:18:48it together and submitted it to the

1:18:50council.

1:18:51>> Got it. Okay. Thank you. Um,

1:18:53>> thank you. And then

1:18:56just for the public and the council's

1:18:59awareness, I did reach out to the

1:19:01complex area superintendent for uh this

1:19:05district, Miss Janette Snelling at the

1:19:07DOE, and uh she did reply saying that

1:19:11the current enrollment at Walo

1:19:13Elementary Middle School is 725,

1:19:17capacity, 72.

1:19:20Um, she doesn't have I'll read it

1:19:23exactly. I do not have the exact number

1:19:25of additional students that can be

1:19:27accommodated before new infrastructure

1:19:29is needed. However, Principal Barber

1:19:32stated that at one time the school

1:19:33enrollment reached 800 with the existing

1:19:36structures. Of note, Principal Barber

1:19:39also reported that there is land that

1:19:41butts up to the school that was donated

1:19:43for the purpose of building a middle

1:19:44school. Hope this is what you need. So

1:19:47just wanted to provide that additional

1:19:48information regarding uh the school

1:19:51capacity in the area. I'll yield at this

1:19:54time.

1:19:55>> Thank you council. How about council?

1:19:59>> Thank you

1:20:02Miss Kohane. That was very um

1:20:05enlightening in a couple of different

1:20:08aspects.

1:20:12the water use development plan, that's

1:20:15the Hawaii County water use development

1:20:17plan you're referring to as far as not

1:20:19having good information.

1:20:22>> So, um, as far as not having good

1:20:24information, I think that's a matter of

1:20:26opinion. But, um, the essentially the

1:20:30last time that the county had a

1:20:33countywide water use and development

1:20:35plan update was back in 2010. It

1:20:38specifically identified Kohho and Himea

1:20:42as areas that needed more detailed

1:20:44planning. So then in February 2015, the

1:20:48Commission on Water Resource Management

1:20:49at the time approved a project

1:20:51description to do the updates of the

1:20:54water use and development plan specific

1:20:56to Koho and Way. Um, y male was supposed

1:21:00to be analyzed using the south kohala

1:21:02community development plan but no plan

1:21:06for yale was ever completed. There is no

1:21:08completed water use and development plan

1:21:10for the yale aquifer system.

1:21:15>> That's that's concerning on multiple

1:21:17levels and something we have brought to

1:21:19the uh water department's viewpoint

1:21:23again and again uh with limited

1:21:26response. So I appreciate you and it's

1:21:29very clear why you're the deputy

1:21:30director of Seaworm given your very

1:21:33clear responses that are very tactful.

1:21:36>> So thank you.

1:21:38>> Thank you. Um, one thing I wanted to

1:21:40highlight in your uh or in the

1:21:43correspondence we received from Seaworm

1:21:47uh was there this is the reporting wells

1:21:52draw and there's a note that there are

1:21:55720 unreporting

1:21:58wells or non-reported wells within the

1:22:01within your

1:22:03sorry for the entire island of Havi.

1:22:06Correct. That is correct.

1:22:09>> And then is it possible for the for

1:22:12seaworm to track how many wells are

1:22:15within the ya white where the kale and

1:22:18ya areas?

1:22:21>> Yes, I can provide that information to

1:22:22you quite readily. Um for Kaleho we have

1:22:25100% compliance right now. Everyone

1:22:28within Kho is reporting their pumping

1:22:31and that includes people I will note who

1:22:33report zero. We consider if someone

1:22:36reports to us affirmatively that they

1:22:38are pumping zero gallons from their well

1:22:41we take them at face value. Um so there

1:22:44are two that I had mentioned within

1:22:47aquifer that are not reporting those are

1:22:52comparatively pretty small wells um and

1:22:55our letter provides the exact capacity

1:22:59of the pumps that are installed in those

1:23:01two wells. So there's a well named Puco

1:23:043 that has an installed pump with a

1:23:06capacity of 60 gallons per minute. If we

1:23:09assume that that well is being pumped

1:23:1224/7, which most wells are not pumped 24

1:23:16hours a day, 7 days a week, but we're

1:23:17we're using the maximum assumption to

1:23:20ensure that we're as conservative as

1:23:22possible. Um then that well would have a

1:23:25capacity of approximately 0.86

1:23:29million gallons a day. We would add to

1:23:31that the other non-reporting well which

1:23:33is named MUI. It has an installed pump

1:23:35capacity of 25 gallons per minute. Uh if

1:23:38it was pumped 247, it would have a

1:23:42withdrawal of approximately 0.036

1:23:45million gallons a day. Adding those

1:23:47together with the current reported

1:23:50withdrawals, that's what gets us to

1:23:53approximately 91.1% of sustainable

1:23:56yield. And that's on that math is at the

1:23:58bottom of page one. in the top of page

1:24:00two of my communication.

1:24:02>> Thank you.

1:24:08And then the other component that I was

1:24:10interested in was

1:24:12you would be able to provide better

1:24:14information on planning decisions like

1:24:17this if there was more information

1:24:20provided to you folks from our planning

1:24:22department or staff as you said um

1:24:26regarding developments in the area

1:24:30or proposed developments. Is that

1:24:32correct?

1:24:34That is correct. I think there are two

1:24:37there are two things here that I would

1:24:38like to highlight. Um one is well

1:24:42they're both just an issue of workflow

1:24:44you know. Um, so I I consulted my

1:24:47planning my own planning staff um when

1:24:50we received an inquiry about this

1:24:52development and I was told that the

1:24:55communication that we received including

1:24:57the attached document did not identify

1:25:00the way male aquifer specifically as the

1:25:02source of the proposed withdrawals. Um,

1:25:05and I'm not singling out this planning

1:25:07department or this project. That is an

1:25:10issue that we come across pretty

1:25:11frequently actually as a commission

1:25:13which limits our ability to comment on

1:25:16the availability of water. Right? If we

1:25:18are not sure what the proposed source is

1:25:21um then we're not really able to provide

1:25:24information such as this aquifer is

1:25:27currently at 91.1% of sustainable yield.

1:25:30So having that specificity as to the

1:25:33amount of the withdrawal and the source

1:25:35of the proposed withdrawal really helps

1:25:37us to provide good information that's

1:25:39useful to decision-making bodies like

1:25:41yours. Um the second thing that I would

1:25:45just like to highlight and we have

1:25:46discussed this already with with

1:25:48planning department staff. They were

1:25:50very good about reaching out to us and

1:25:52I'm looking forward to continued

1:25:54communications with them going forward.

1:25:56is just that our ability to track

1:26:00authorized plan use is limited. Um, you

1:26:04know, we we have a relatively small

1:26:06staff. We're focused primarily on the

1:26:08water side of things. There is clearly

1:26:10an interaction between land use and

1:26:12water use. Um, on the land use side,

1:26:16when a body like yours makes a decision

1:26:18that approves a project going forward,

1:26:21um, or when water credits are given out

1:26:24for a project, we're not easily able to

1:26:27track that information and to make sure

1:26:29that we're updating our estimate of

1:26:31authorized planned use. So, there's

1:26:34clearly the the opportunity for greater

1:26:36communication there. Um, and it's

1:26:38something that we've we've tried to

1:26:40highlight with all of the various

1:26:42counties. So again, um, Hawaii County is

1:26:45not alone. This has been a long-standing

1:26:46issue um that has persisted for many

1:26:50years.

1:26:52>> Might be a good uh good object for HSAC

1:26:56to take up in their next session that

1:26:59Seaworm could work with HSAC on. Well, I

1:27:02I do I do appreciate you're actually

1:27:04very delightful and refreshing to hear

1:27:06from uh staff in one of our agencies

1:27:10bring this kind of information together

1:27:12and stress for more collaboration

1:27:14between uh state and county to ensure

1:27:17better land use decisions being made by

1:27:20local bodies uh and bridge the gap

1:27:22between the different players in the

1:27:25field. Was the was the information you

1:27:27were touching on was that provided by

1:27:29the applicant or by the planning

1:27:31department?

1:27:34>> Um,

1:27:34>> as far as the aquifer not being stated

1:27:36correctly,

1:27:38>> I'm not confident of the workflow. Um,

1:27:41so I I believe it's the the planning

1:27:43department transmitting information that

1:27:45is provided by the applicant, but I am

1:27:47absolutely subject to correction on that

1:27:49point.

1:27:50>> Okay. Thank you very much for your time.

1:27:53I appreciate uh what you sent over. And

1:27:57then just just to highlight, Mr. Inava

1:28:01passed a bill last I want to say last

1:28:03year, could have been before that. The

1:28:06bill that he passed uh requires the

1:28:09department to sub the planning

1:28:11department to submit.

1:28:16It's a list of proposed developments in

1:28:19the area.

1:28:24And so we are supposed to receive this

1:28:28document when we have a land use

1:28:30decision in front of us. And it provides

1:28:32the amount of lots or developments or

1:28:35projects in the surrounding area that

1:28:38weigh on the land use decision in front

1:28:41of us. This document may be of use to

1:28:45seaworm or to some portion of

1:28:48county water supply and planning

1:28:51department and seaworm to come together

1:28:54with some really good output as far as

1:28:55what would be acceptable in the area

1:28:57when we discuss water.

1:28:59I got to give Mr. Nava credit for that.

1:29:02Thank you. I'm going to yield for now

1:29:04chair. I'll come back.

1:29:05>> Thank you council member Connie Lee

1:29:06Clanfield or Mr. Anishi you are next.

1:29:08>> Thank you madam chair. Can I have the

1:29:11applicants to come up?

1:29:29>> So you guys can introduce yourselves

1:29:31again.

1:29:34John Pippen, consultant for the

1:29:35applicants.

1:29:37>> John Yoshimura, applicant. and Daniel

1:29:39Popkin, applicant. Okay. Um, we've been

1:29:43hearing about issues about the water and

1:29:45so forth, and I just want to kind of

1:29:47make it clear, I guess, you folks are

1:29:49purchasing this water from

1:29:53um

1:29:57from Hawaii Water Company.

1:29:58>> Yes.

1:29:59>> Right. So basically Hawaii water company

1:30:02you folks provide them the amount of

1:30:07gallons you folks need for your project

1:30:09and they will tell you guys if they're

1:30:11they can provide that or not right

1:30:14>> yes essentially

1:30:15>> you can on the mic please.

1:30:17>> Yes that's essentially correct you guys

1:30:18are not drilling your own wells correct

1:30:21yeah and so if anything with problems

1:30:25about the amount of gallons that need

1:30:27per day this

1:30:29water company would have to go to either

1:30:33Seaworm or whoever to get more permits

1:30:37to get more water. Is that correct?

1:30:39>> Exactly. Hawaii water service has stated

1:30:41that this is within their current

1:30:43capacity.

1:30:44>> So basically for the responsibility of

1:30:47getting the water for this project is

1:30:49not the applicant. Correct. Not you. You

1:30:52guys

1:30:54>> I mean because of not I mean why say

1:30:56drilling wells and so forth? you folks

1:30:59from a company that's providing like

1:31:00>> that is Hawaii water service.

1:31:02>> Correct. Okay. So, I just wanted to kind

1:31:03of make that clear because it seems like

1:31:06sometimes it's that it seems like you

1:31:09folks are the ones drilling and you guys

1:31:11are the ones going get needing this, you

1:31:14know, gallons of water which maybe the

1:31:16aquifer may may or may not be able to

1:31:20provide. But you folks are not that at

1:31:23that situation, right? You folks are

1:31:25just buying it. So, it's that company

1:31:26that needs to make sure that they have

1:31:30the amount of water that's needed for

1:31:32your project, right?

1:31:35>> Yes. Okay. Good. Good. Good. So, I hope

1:31:37that kind of clears up a lot of the

1:31:39issues about the water part, right?

1:31:42Because it's not like you folks got to

1:31:44go to serum to find out if you folks are

1:31:46allowed and to get permits, right? And

1:31:48so, just wanted to kind of clear all

1:31:50that up. Okay. So, that's good. Um I

1:31:55noticed in

1:31:57what the conditions

1:32:01in S

1:32:03it's like the your folks property was

1:32:07used as a defense site

1:32:11and so right now you folks haven't

1:32:13really explored the whole property on

1:32:17exploded ordinances. Correct.

1:32:19>> There there have been surveys. Um there

1:32:22has been a level of clearance on the

1:32:24site already

1:32:25>> certain areas

1:32:26>> the entire property

1:32:28>> entire so do already has approved it

1:32:32>> um whether it's do uh army corps this

1:32:36this private firm who does the clearing

1:32:39it it is it has been completed to a

1:32:41certain level yes

1:32:43>> oh okay okay because I I know do is the

1:32:47most hardest department

1:32:50to get the clearance

1:32:51because I've heard applicants trying to

1:32:54get that clearance. I mean, they did

1:32:56everything, the surveys, they did all

1:32:58everything, but do the doesn't want to

1:33:00sign off on it, right? So, in your

1:33:03situation, DO did then, and you folks

1:33:06are, that is my understanding. Yes. You

1:33:09know, we have our standard condition to

1:33:10comply with anything that remains. And

1:33:13as always, we we teach it to our kids in

1:33:15school to to recognize, retreat, and

1:33:18report. you know, that that goes without

1:33:19saying that it's still status quo. Um,

1:33:22but this this has gone through uh, you

1:33:25know, very carefully and and cleared any

1:33:27UXO that was found.

1:33:29>> Okay. Okay. That's good to hear that.

1:33:32Um, the other thing I I was looking at.

1:33:35Okay. So, it looks like if approved,

1:33:39you folks would have I guess 12 years to

1:33:43build out. Is that or at least partial

1:33:46>> about 20 for the third phase to be

1:33:49completed?

1:33:50>> Yeah.

1:33:50>> Yeah. 20 45.

1:33:51>> Okay. You know, because usually what

1:33:53happens is that I've seen where

1:33:55applicants come in, we approve it, then

1:33:58they got to come back in because they

1:34:00never did anything for 10 years and then

1:34:01coming back and went, okay, we need one

1:34:03extension. So, I'm hoping this will not

1:34:06happen with this project.

1:34:08>> Yeah. Yes. That's why we [clears throat]

1:34:11estimated as accurately as we could and

1:34:13and were a little conservative on the

1:34:15dates that we expected the the phases to

1:34:17be completed so as to not have to ask

1:34:20for extensions. Okay, good, good, good

1:34:23to hear that. [clears throat] My last

1:34:25thing is um it's me you folks mentioned

1:34:27about workforce housing.

1:34:29You know, I just was at this conference

1:34:33and we talked about workforce housing,

1:34:35right? And you folks talked about

1:34:36working families. I mean,

1:34:40is there a number that you folks can

1:34:43provide me and the council on what

1:34:47possible sale of a property would be?

1:34:53I'm going to punt.

1:34:55You know, that's the that's the $5

1:34:58million question. I guess the the issue

1:35:01I think you understand this process.

1:35:03We've John and I have been doing this

1:35:04for four years. We filed our application

1:35:06over a year ago. We're here tonight if

1:35:08we can get approval. We have a lot of

1:35:10hard work to do, Councilman. And and

1:35:13you're right. It's a long time to get

1:35:15this built, but we have to go next. And

1:35:17this project is on lava rock, hilly

1:35:20lands, has drainage issues. There's

1:35:22going to be a lot of engineering that

1:35:24has to be done to understand exactly how

1:35:26we're going to build this. I wish I

1:35:27could sit here today and tell you these

1:35:28would be less than a million dollars for

1:35:30a lot. I mean, of course, that would be

1:35:32fantastic to have these houses be under

1:35:34a million dollars.

1:35:36talking about multif family.

1:35:38>> I thought you were talking about sale

1:35:39for the multif family rentals. Was that

1:35:41the question?

1:35:41>> No, no, not rentals. I mean, I I love

1:35:43the rentals and I and I did mention that

1:35:45before that I guess for workforce

1:35:49housing rental in that area would make

1:35:52more sense. But then, you know, you

1:35:55cannot be renting out like $5,000 a unit

1:35:58because then that way a working family

1:36:00will not be able to afford it.

1:36:03>> So, it has to be reasonable. And there

1:36:05is a condition in chapter 11 about

1:36:08housing, right? Affordable housing.

1:36:09Yeah. Right.

1:36:10>> But if I'm not mistaken

1:36:13as a developer,

1:36:16you you are required to have X

1:36:19percentage of homes at these different

1:36:21levels, but then you're allowed up to

1:36:25like 180 days on the market, right? And

1:36:28if no one qualifies, then it can revert

1:36:31back to market value. Correct. as a

1:36:34developer.

1:36:35>> Yes.

1:36:36>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we we are going to

1:36:38comply with uh the affordable housing.

1:36:41>> I understand. But like I say, but after

1:36:44180 days, right,

1:36:46>> then it can revert back to market value.

1:36:48>> Yeah. What whatever chapter 11,

1:36:50>> right,

1:36:51>> spells out is is what we have to comply

1:36:53with.

1:36:53>> Okay. Good. Yeah. So, so you know a lot

1:36:56of times and like I said I just wasn't

1:36:58at one event um a conference and we

1:37:01talked about um workforce housing and

1:37:05one of the key expenses is about land

1:37:08and infrastructure

1:37:10right so if the houses single family

1:37:15homes that you folks build oh you would

1:37:18have to but you build at say you know

1:37:22700 to a million dollars is our average

1:37:26working families will not be able to

1:37:28afford that.

1:37:29>> You understand?

1:37:29>> Right. And so to me, you folks need to

1:37:32kind of look at how you folks going to

1:37:35be working

1:37:37to get those afford the working force

1:37:40houses

1:37:41to that certain level. Because if you

1:37:44look at that area,

1:37:46the workforce,

1:37:48what is their like minimum income

1:37:51and then base it on workforce housing?

1:37:55Okay, I'll this time.

1:37:57>> Council member Viegas, please.

1:38:00>> Yeah. Um, thank you, uh, Council Member

1:38:03Onishi for, um, your questions as they

1:38:06related to water. Um, I suppose I have

1:38:09some concerns about it. doesn't clear it

1:38:12up for me because um the developer is

1:38:17relying on Hawaii water service

1:38:21and what Hawaii water service is capable

1:38:24of saying is that their pumps can pump

1:38:27that much water

1:38:30but not they're not saying that the

1:38:32aquafer can provide that water that's

1:38:36what seaworm does and that's what we

1:38:38just heard from seaworm were figures

1:38:40that I find radically concerning.

1:38:43[clears throat] When we had uh

1:38:45presentations during our last meeting in

1:38:48which um we were all notified that in

1:38:50the greatest best case scenario in the

1:38:54next 70 years, we're looking at a 35%

1:38:57decrease

1:38:58in the recharge for our aquifers. And

1:39:01worst case scenario, a 50 some odd

1:39:04percent decrease in the recharge of our

1:39:06aquifers. And what we're hearing from

1:39:09Seaworm today is that they're already at

1:39:1291%.

1:39:17That doesn't leave us

1:39:20in a place to provide safe, healthy

1:39:24drinking water,

1:39:26agricultural water, any kind of water

1:39:29for our community. Um, let alone the

1:39:32water necessary to save people in times

1:39:35of fire.

1:39:36So, I I just need to clarify that and

1:39:39and and make sure there's no confusion

1:39:41by anybody sitting here

1:39:44that Hawaii Water does not have the

1:39:49authority nor the jurisdiction to say

1:39:51that they can pump that water from the

1:39:54aquafer. They're just saying their pumps

1:39:55could do it. Um

1:40:00I just feel like in in a lot of things

1:40:02in life having sat here actually I was

1:40:06away for my 50th when Lahina burned

1:40:10and um

1:40:13I was with friends I went to uh Manoa

1:40:15with and I had friends in Lahina that

1:40:18day that ran for their lives

1:40:21and I would not be able to live with

1:40:23myself

1:40:26even though I'll terming out.

1:40:29I'm sorry, gentlemen, but I won't be

1:40:30able to live with myself to approve of a

1:40:32development that would put people in

1:40:35jeopardy, in harm's way if or when

1:40:39something happened. And I would rather

1:40:42heir on the side of caution for the

1:40:44livelihoods

1:40:47and the lives of these people. This is a

1:40:52issue

1:40:54that's unfortunate for you and it's

1:40:56unfortunate for those of us who've been

1:40:58born and raised here. We have not had

1:41:01adequate investment in our

1:41:02infrastructure, whether that be roads,

1:41:05sewers,

1:41:07water,

1:41:09technologies to support the great people

1:41:12who are doing the best they can with

1:41:14what they have. But it's put us at a

1:41:17time and place when you add climate

1:41:19change, the increase in natural

1:41:22disasters,

1:41:24and kind of the changing of the paradigm

1:41:26and understanding of what's enough that

1:41:29leaves us all at risk. Even the school,

1:41:32not the school's already over capacity.

1:41:36Um so I can't support this and I will be

1:41:41um standing in alignment with um the

1:41:46scientists

1:41:48and the watchers and and guides for our

1:41:53natural resource management and um for

1:41:57those begging for us to make a decision

1:42:01for the long-term health, safety, and

1:42:04well-being of a community. that's

1:42:06already struggling and suffering and has

1:42:08been traumatized

1:42:10in times of evacuation with the lack of

1:42:13necessary infrastructure to ensure their

1:42:15safe a safe pathway to get out. I yield.

1:42:21>> Thank you, council member. Um I'll go to

1:42:23anyone else who hasn't spoken yet before

1:42:24uh council member Kuba.

1:42:26>> Thank you, chair. Um yeah, I'm

1:42:29struggling here. I want to get to a yes

1:42:31because I know this is a good project

1:42:33and um we really do need the the

1:42:37housing. Um you've added many community

1:42:40benefits that I think are very would be

1:42:43beneficial to our community. Um

1:42:48I

1:42:50know we can't hold one project um

1:42:53responsible for something like you know

1:42:58very expensive road that we need to put

1:43:01in as a county. So, I'm just trying to

1:43:04figure out

1:43:07what

1:43:09I don't I don't think it's uh reasonable

1:43:11to say that, you know, a road would be

1:43:13completely completed and all that before

1:43:15we would say yes to a project such as

1:43:17this either. Um, but I'm trying to see

1:43:20if there's some kind of It seems like

1:43:22this is a little bit of a leveraging

1:43:24point if I I'll just [clears throat] say

1:43:26with the county um to say we need to

1:43:29really get on this second road. Um, and

1:43:33so I can totally understand why the

1:43:35community and others are like this is

1:43:39this is a super super important issue

1:43:42right now.

1:43:44um you know, in a lot of ways, if I

1:43:46could trade your your project for some

1:43:48of the projects that were already um

1:43:50okay, I'd love to do that, but we can't

1:43:53do that. So, I'm just trying to figure

1:43:56out and maybe I'm going to ask

1:44:00Council Member Houston if he has any

1:44:02thoughts on

1:44:05um what we can do to support you and

1:44:09your community as far as

1:44:12getting this road

1:44:14on its way to being built. Um, what do

1:44:19you need

1:44:21from us, from the community,

1:44:24from developers? I mean,

1:44:27frankly, you know, if if this is a super

1:44:30important issue for you and you're

1:44:31building housing that could be affected

1:44:34by this, I mean, I don't know if you've

1:44:35had a time had time or ability to go

1:44:38talk to this administration and say,

1:44:41"Look, this road needs to be done. it's

1:44:44it's impacting it'll impact all the

1:44:47people that we want to put in homes.

1:44:50Um, so I'm just trying to figure out

1:44:54what if anything at this kind of point

1:44:58in time we can do to support

1:45:02getting this road on the way to being

1:45:05built for this community. at the same

1:45:08time not completely say no to this

1:45:11project whether it's a deferral while we

1:45:13get to to you know actually you know a

1:45:18plan or funding or what is it that we

1:45:21need to do to to make this a reality to

1:45:24to make it look like it's a reality and

1:45:26it's going forward. Um so I guess I'm I

1:45:29am asking a little bit. It's it's a

1:45:32little strange, I know, but I'm I am

1:45:33going to ask um Council Member Hustus,

1:45:36who represents this district, what what

1:45:39what do you see would be beneficial at

1:45:41this point?

1:45:43>> Council member

1:45:43>> Hust.

1:45:44>> Thanks, Sher. Uh thanks, Council Member

1:45:46Kaguato. It it really depends on which

1:45:49road you want to go down, pun intended.

1:45:54>> Um and which road we're talking about,

1:45:56too.

1:45:57Uh it's I think the community knows this

1:46:01is a very complicated issue too in terms

1:46:03of what they've been watching and

1:46:04tracking in this in that space

1:46:06because as I mentioned in my opening my

1:46:08remarks earlier that we have state

1:46:11highways doing multiple things in the

1:46:14vicinity of the Waloa area. You know

1:46:17they're working on an emergency egress

1:46:19road on the north side of the village

1:46:22which would be a duplicate road a

1:46:24duplicate emergency egress road. What

1:46:26the community has right now is Hulu

1:46:28Street egress road which is in more or

1:46:31less in the middle of White Glow Village

1:46:33that is a Malca is a Makai as a Malcoa

1:46:36to Makai only. It's a singular and

1:46:38egress road. Uh it's been improved upon

1:46:41by the county through the years. Um and

1:46:43it's not by any means a permanent road

1:46:45whatsoever. It is only there for

1:46:46emergency purposes. So at the moment the

1:46:48state is creating a a duplicate parallel

1:46:51road on the north side of uh Waloa kind

1:46:54of in the vicinity of our county

1:46:56properties the Kamakoa properties and

1:46:59the intent to connect in that space up

1:47:01there. So there would be a second egress

1:47:02road there [snorts]

1:47:04and the state has contracted that work

1:47:05out. The storms have uh recent storms

1:47:08and hurricanes have delayed some of that

1:47:10progress. I still think they're hoping

1:47:12to be to be finished with that uh second

1:47:15emergency grass road by the end of this

1:47:17calendar year. That's what I've been

1:47:18told. Um and on the other side on the

1:47:22south side the Kona side of Wolo village

1:47:24you have ongoing conversations about the

1:47:26Daniel Koi highway extension project and

1:47:30uh H dot department of transportation

1:47:32are going they're going through the that

1:47:35environmental assessment process the EIS

1:47:37process there with that uh that was

1:47:40sorry chair I'm kind of this is all

1:47:43going all over the place.

1:47:43>> I do believe it's relevant to the

1:47:45conversation so I'm allowing it.

1:47:46>> Sure. Well, I appreciate you giving me

1:47:47the latitude to kind of talk about all

1:47:49these different moving pieces here to

1:47:50kind of give you some a picture that the

1:47:52community is aware of as well. So, the

1:47:54the Daniel Koihigh extension that was

1:47:58paused many years ago, that's feels like

1:48:00many years ago now. Um because the state

1:48:04didn't feel that there was an

1:48:05opportunity to move forward with the

1:48:06construction phase. You know, maybe

1:48:09things have changed then in other

1:48:10conversations with uh Department of

1:48:13Defense. So, that's an ongoing

1:48:14conversation uh that's happening there.

1:48:16But our state legislators of the area

1:48:19have supported HOT to kind of at least

1:48:22keep the the EIS project going forward

1:48:25to identify the corridors. I mean a

1:48:27couple of corridors were already mapped

1:48:29out in those preliminary designs and

1:48:31study. Um but the we need to get to that

1:48:35final documentation, right? And so

1:48:37that's that's the that's the key piece

1:48:40that that I also see as kind of a a

1:48:42challenge for the appropriation that I

1:48:45brought forward. And I'm grateful for

1:48:46the support and bringing that

1:48:47appropriation forward in the previous

1:48:48fiscal year budget, you know, and

1:48:51working with the community to try and

1:48:52what are the what are these actions and

1:48:54these steps that we can take. So the the

1:48:56$2.5 million that we appropriated that

1:48:59still sit in our capital budget for a

1:49:01few more years

1:49:03really is that kicker in terms of really

1:49:04understanding the true cost of what a

1:49:06road might look like in in any capacity

1:49:09in anywhere in in the Wolo village. And

1:49:11I I had intended it to be on the on the

1:49:13north side of the village. I mean that

1:49:14was where I think it would serve the

1:49:16most need for the community uh and kind

1:49:19of delivering on that space um and

1:49:21access um emergency all these sort of

1:49:24things um and alleviating a lot of the

1:49:26strain and stress for traffic issues

1:49:28there. So there's that piece and not

1:49:32encumbering those funds and not really

1:49:33utilizing those funds puts us in this

1:49:35weird place where we don't know the true

1:49:37cost of the roads. We don't know the

1:49:39corridors, the cost, the archaeological

1:49:41studies, all the sort of different

1:49:42pieces. Now what makes it more

1:49:44complicated is that we have development

1:49:46happening all in the WA community and

1:49:49one of the properties on the north side

1:49:50of Waloa and then they've they intend to

1:49:52come to us at some point in the future

1:49:53to talk about uh special financing for

1:49:57uh infrastructure purposes.

1:49:59They have some obligation about a road,

1:50:02right? And it's in their conditions and

1:50:04our planning director can probably speak

1:50:06in more depth about this but in their

1:50:07planning and development they have

1:50:09conditions about a road one or the

1:50:11other. They were never tied to one road

1:50:14in particular, but their development has

1:50:16an option to do one road or the other.

1:50:18And they they vary in cost and scale and

1:50:21what the road would be. And that's a you

1:50:23know, that's a business thing that

1:50:24they'd have to make a decision on what

1:50:25they want to do and what they present to

1:50:26this body as well.

1:50:29Um,

1:50:30yeah. So, at at you know, at the end of

1:50:33the day, it's it's kind of this unknown

1:50:35space. And you know I I have other I've

1:50:38talked to community partners here in the

1:50:40space about other ideas that that are

1:50:42not I cannot mention right now in this

1:50:44space. It's not ready for for open

1:50:46discussion at the moment. But there are

1:50:48other opportunities that we can look at

1:50:51for regional infrastructure and working

1:50:53with community partners working with the

1:50:54developers and really connecting a lot

1:50:56of those pieces. Uh because that's

1:50:59that's what's been missing in W Koa. I

1:51:01mean, I think the community has been in

1:51:03this this outcry for many years with the

1:51:05CDP and in the community and in the

1:51:07community meetings with different

1:51:08administrations about this piece is

1:51:10really missing. All these developers

1:51:12have come and gone come and gone and

1:51:14this this one piece that and you you you

1:51:17look at just the Wolo village interior

1:51:19though the what exists now and the

1:51:21development that's been established

1:51:23through the years. some have fallen

1:51:25through on a lot of those commitments in

1:51:27terms of connectivity redundancy within

1:51:29Waloa village itself and that's that's

1:51:32kind of like this heartache and this

1:51:34pain for a lot of community members

1:51:36about this lack of infrastructure there

1:51:39um and that's a bigger conversation that

1:51:42we all need to have with the village

1:51:44association they are large land owners

1:51:46in the area too so that's the HOA that

1:51:50um represents

1:51:52um a a good good number not the not the

1:51:55all of the community members in Wo but a

1:51:56majority of the community members in W

1:51:58cola they are large land owners that

1:52:00surround the community and they're the

1:52:03county's done many road studies uh

1:52:05through a lot of those lands and none of

1:52:07them have really kind of moved forward

1:52:10more or less. So that's kind of all also

1:52:12at the this this this cross crossroads

1:52:15here pun intended.

1:52:18>> Thank you and we'll

1:52:20>> I hope that helps.

1:52:21>> Yeah. Um I I do want to keep us moving

1:52:23along because we are over time already.

1:52:25So back to you council member Kagiada

1:52:28then Mr. and then coming. All right,

1:52:31with all that, I'll just say that I

1:52:33would be in favor of deferring this

1:52:38vote on this project because I really

1:52:40don't want to vote it down until there's

1:52:43some metric met as far as moving along

1:52:48that would at least show the community

1:52:50that the county is very serious

1:52:54um about their safety and their lives.

1:52:58Um, I still don't know exactly what that

1:53:00metric is, but um I I do feel like we

1:53:04kind of owe it to these folks to not um

1:53:08keep placing

1:53:11um large um burdens on the area without

1:53:16at least showing some uh measure that we

1:53:19are going forward. So that's where I am

1:53:22right now. I yield. Um, council member,

1:53:25>> thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to

1:53:28clarify what I meant about the Hawaii

1:53:30Water Company is just that they go in to

1:53:34get their approvals or their permits to

1:53:38to uh guess get the resources of the

1:53:40water and I don't know if Seaworm can

1:53:44talk or they know about what is the

1:53:47yield that Hawaii water company is

1:53:50allowed to tap off of that aquifer.

1:53:57So because um council member Onishi,

1:54:01this is not a designated groundwater

1:54:04management area. Um we don't actually

1:54:07issue a permit for an amount of

1:54:09allocation. Like there's no permit

1:54:11saying you can withdraw x million

1:54:14gallons of water a day from the white

1:54:16male aquifer.

1:54:17>> The only constraint on Hawaii water

1:54:20service at this time is the capacity of

1:54:22the installed pump.

1:54:23>> Okay. A pump permit is like a building

1:54:25permit. You get it, you install your

1:54:26pump, and then

1:54:28>> Okay,

1:54:28>> no more permit.

1:54:29>> Got it.

1:54:30>> So essentially the pump that they were

1:54:33permitted to install has a given

1:54:34capacity. I do not have that figure in

1:54:37front of me right now.

1:54:38>> I just wanted to um you know give that

1:54:40opportunity, but then also I think they

1:54:42need to go to the PUC in order to get

1:54:45the requirements of how much gallons a

1:54:48day they can pump out. So, I just wanted

1:54:50to kind of clarify that that it's

1:54:53there's a there's I guess a government

1:54:55entity that does monitor the amount,

1:54:58right? And so, they kind of go over,

1:55:02right? But they could go under of what

1:55:04the use is. So, I just want to kind of

1:55:06clarify on that. And I recommend or I

1:55:09would ask if you folks at the next

1:55:12meeting to bring someone that represents

1:55:16the water company to answer some of the

1:55:18questions that some some of the members

1:55:20might have. Yeah, I think that would be

1:55:22great because then they are a separate

1:55:25entity from you folks, right? And you

1:55:28folks are buying from them. So they

1:55:29should be the ones answering about how

1:55:32much. Yes. Go ahead. I think I may be

1:55:33able to say on I think I may be able to

1:55:36answer that. Um because the Hawaii water

1:55:40company gave us a willserve letter which

1:55:42basically we put our use in it of

1:55:44exactly what we need and they said they

1:55:45have enough capacity to pump it.

1:55:47>> Right.

1:55:47>> It is true what Seaworm said that if

1:55:50Seaworm one day were to designate or ask

1:55:52for a management area like John put in

1:55:54his report then it would then there'd be

1:55:56a stop to all development right that

1:55:58they wouldn't be able to get one new

1:55:59even one meter approved for one drop of

1:56:01water. So right now, Hawaii Water

1:56:04Service has given us this letter. That's

1:56:06the requirement of our reszoning. And in

1:56:08the letter, it says the company

1:56:10currently has eight operational wells

1:56:12capable of producing 11.4 MGD, but uses

1:56:17the criteria of the two largest wells

1:56:19out of service to meet demand. So

1:56:20effective production is 8.3 mg.

1:56:23>> We understand.

1:56:24>> Anyway, they have enough. It's just that

1:56:27the concern about the aquifer, how much

1:56:30is being taken out and so forth, right?

1:56:32And

1:56:33>> basically, it's not it's not

1:56:35>> you're

1:56:35>> we can't control it.

1:56:36>> Yes. It's it's

1:56:37>> only seaworm can.

1:56:38>> Yeah. And plus, but it's also the water

1:56:40company. That's true. Right. Because

1:56:41they the ones did the application.

1:56:43They're the ones got the permit that

1:56:45being allowed to pump the water. Right.

1:56:47So I So I just would recommend that you

1:56:50folks do have someone at the next

1:56:51meeting. Go ahead, John, if you want.

1:56:54>> Um

1:56:57I think you know we we have uh revised

1:57:01our water usage numbers and I think if

1:57:04you take that number and you put it on

1:57:07top of the what's being pumped now you

1:57:10know you get very close to if not over

1:57:1290% which would trigger the special

1:57:14management area so potentially so um you

1:57:20know basically that's where we are we we

1:57:23have a number of of that that we believe

1:57:26is necessary for

1:57:28>> right we understand that but it's just

1:57:30saying that it's just that it's been

1:57:32brought up about the aquifer and that

1:57:34right and it's not really you guys the

1:57:36ones that going to be drilling into the

1:57:38ground tap off the oifer you folks are

1:57:41purchasing this water from another

1:57:43entity that is drilling into the well

1:57:46that has to has the requirements right

1:57:49>> and if I may uh for our part we've

1:57:52committed to go above and beyond uh

1:57:54reducing residential portable use by 30%

1:57:58or more and that's in condition B now.

1:58:00So we are mitigating what we can in

1:58:03terms of the use of our project.

1:58:06>> Yes.

1:58:06>> Okay. Thank you and I'll yield.

1:58:08>> Thank you. Back to you council member

1:58:09Kilter.

1:58:11>> Uh thank you.

1:58:14>> You guys did you guys painted a really

1:58:16pretty picture. I said that from the

1:58:17beginning. Renewable energy,

1:58:19agriculture.

1:58:21Um but I mean just

1:58:25If I strip all that away, county council

1:58:27considers land use. That's what we do.

1:58:29That's that's huge for development. And

1:58:30the more I' more I've sat in this chair,

1:58:33the more I realized how much everyone

1:58:35pushes for county council members who

1:58:36are prodeveloping.

1:58:38Why? Because it's a it's a whole lot of

1:58:41money out there to be done in

1:58:43development. That's fair. It is what it

1:58:45is. Um,

1:58:48from everything I've heard, we have

1:58:50water issues. Okay. It's going to get

1:58:53exacerbated in the future. I don't see

1:58:55water getting better in the future

1:58:57because it's getting drier.

1:58:59That's how I feel. That's the way the

1:59:01world's pointing. Um, we have fire

1:59:04issues. We had the hina that taught us a

1:59:07huge lesson. We've seen fires in Walo.

1:59:09We've seen fires in Kohala. I'm reminded

1:59:11of Chief Todd coming down here and

1:59:13saying, you know, during the Lina fires,

1:59:15we had our own fires. We didn't even

1:59:16bring it up because it didn't even hit a

1:59:19level we wanted to talk about as we

1:59:21consider what was happening in Maui. Um,

1:59:24and he came back with this whole slew of

1:59:26things he wanted to address as far as

1:59:29how we look at building codes and

1:59:31different things that we can do as a

1:59:33body and a government to make sure our

1:59:36communities are safe.

1:59:40Mr. Eustus touched on roads today. The

1:59:43more I think about the roads in W Koa, I

1:59:46think about the roads in Puna. We have

1:59:48one road in and one road out to get

1:59:50everyone in Puna, Volcano and Cau to

1:59:52Hilo. And we have one way out to

1:59:56Volcano. And the people in Caou have one

1:59:59highway in and one highway out. It's one

2:00:01lane. So I understand what Walo is

2:00:05asking for.

2:00:07Um,

2:00:09we have our own issues in Puna and I

2:00:11wish we had money to throw at the

2:00:13problem because I'd address them all.

2:00:15But, um, Miss Nakagaw would would kill

2:00:17me if I went for what I wanted.

2:00:20Um,

2:00:22so

2:00:25fire issues, water issues,

2:00:29road issues. When I look at the road

2:00:31issues, I really look back at past

2:00:32developments, things that this body, not

2:00:35these people, but this very body

2:00:38discussed and passed in previous

2:00:42administrations and previous councils

2:00:44that did not lend itself to making sure

2:00:47the community was safe after it was

2:00:49built.

2:00:51That's what this body is for.

2:00:54So, in a way, if you think about what

2:00:57we're being asked to do today

2:01:00and probably what was asked of the body

2:01:02previously was the same thing. Hey, this

2:01:05is good for the community. It creates

2:01:06housing. It's RPT income for the county.

2:01:11Blah blah blah blah blah. Make sure you

2:01:12pass the bill. We need five votes.

2:01:17But it lends us to 2026 where the

2:01:20community is now saying, "Hey, we're

2:01:21we're a community of I don't even I

2:01:24don't even know the population of WA.

2:01:25What is the population of Wala?

2:01:277,000. Okay. Well, unfortunately, seven,

2:01:31let's call it 10. We got 60,000 people

2:01:34in Puna who have one highway in and one

2:01:36highway out. 7,000. Let's call it 10,000

2:01:39people in like Kaloa. You have one road

2:01:40in and one way out.

2:01:44That was a dangerous situation. Is a

2:01:47dangerous situation that we created in

2:01:49the past and is now filled out to what

2:01:51it is now. It's bigger. It's a worse

2:01:54problem. Didn't get better. The roads

2:01:55haven't been built. So now here we are

2:01:58today with this new development need. I

2:02:02understand the picture you painted. It's

2:02:04beautiful.

2:02:05There's not enough room in the schools.

2:02:07We got road issues, water issues, road

2:02:10issues, fire issues.

2:02:14And if we get to affordable housing, I

2:02:16just I just read somewhere with the

2:02:18rates going up, interest rates, now it's

2:02:21becoming harder for Americans to buy

2:02:22affordable housing, which tells me two

2:02:25things.

2:02:27It's not just building homes that makes

2:02:30housing affordable. It's the entire

2:02:33market, which we always hear, hey, you

2:02:35guys got to build a more affordable

2:02:36housing to fix the situation for our

2:02:39community.

2:02:40can build all the houses we want, but if

2:02:42their interest rate goes up another half

2:02:44point, we're at 6 and a half percent,

2:02:466.25%

2:02:48minimum, 7, 8, 10% to buy a home and

2:02:52lock in a mortgage. That obviously kind

2:02:55of takes away the whole affordable

2:02:56housing crisis

2:02:59because it's it's bringing in the bigger

2:03:03picture. build as much affordable

2:03:04housing as you want, but the interest

2:03:07rates can detract more potential

2:03:10investors and the average home buyer

2:03:12than the amount of housing in the

2:03:14market.

2:03:17Ultimately, with all that on the table,

2:03:19I can think of a lot of political

2:03:21reasons to say yes. And I've heard

2:03:23impassion speeches to the effect of we

2:03:25need to pass this for different reasons.

2:03:28But gentlemen, if I was to say yes to

2:03:29this,

2:03:31I'd be doing no more good than the

2:03:33people who said yes to building all of

2:03:35Kaloa in the past with zero

2:03:36infrastructure to help people get out

2:03:38when the fires come true. So, I'm I'm

2:03:40going to say no because it it leans in

2:03:42on the county needing to make better

2:03:44decisions land use wise. As someone

2:03:46who's been in government, even if for a

2:03:48short time,

2:03:50if we don't make good decisions for the

2:03:51people, then we're not we're shying away

2:03:53from the very things that make public

2:03:55works mission statement and planning's

2:03:57mission statement useful.

2:04:00Make laws and and make decisions that

2:04:02are good for community and keep people

2:04:04safe in the public safety realm, which

2:04:06is our kana.

2:04:09So, um, I appreciate what you folks

2:04:12presented,

2:04:14but in this case, I'm going to say no

2:04:16for the reasons I've stated. Thank you.

2:04:18>> Thank you, council member. Any other

2:04:20questions, comments? I'm going to ask

2:04:22for a quick motion. We have a a

2:04:24housekeeping amendment at their request

2:04:26of the department to change the um the

2:04:29fee structure. So, if I can ask somebody

2:04:31to make a motion to amend 187 with the

2:04:34contents of communication 1025.1.

2:04:37>> So, moved.

2:04:39Motion by council member Houston,

2:04:40seconded by council member Galima to

2:04:42amend bill 187 with the contents of

2:04:44communication 1025.21

2:04:48for the applicant and their

2:04:49representatives. This is just the um

2:04:51fair share. Um any discussion on that

2:04:55council member Elite Cler keep a chart

2:04:57please

2:04:59>> uh whoever brought this for I know it's

2:05:01from your office but was this from

2:05:02planning?

2:05:03>> Planning planning submitted it for our

2:05:04office to complete. Yes.

2:05:06>> To the planning department. Thank you

2:05:07very much for uh rounding out those

2:05:09numbers and making them a little bit

2:05:11higher. Helps out on the county. If this

2:05:13was to pass, sorry, if the amendment

2:05:16passes, it would lend itself to more

2:05:18money in a fair share contribution

2:05:20account, which could help with things

2:05:21like infrastructure. Thank you.

2:05:24>> Any further discussion on the amendment?

2:05:26Seeing none, all those in favor, please

2:05:28say I. Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have

2:05:31eight eyes. Council member Kirkowit

2:05:33excused. Back to the main motion. Um

2:05:35we'll take a roll call vote at this

2:05:36time. Please, Mr. Clerk.

2:05:39>> On the motion to forward bill 187 draft

2:05:423 as amended to council with a favorable

2:05:44recommendation. Miss Kima,

2:05:46>> I

2:05:47>> Mr. Hust.

2:05:49>> Hi.

2:05:50>> Mr. Inaba

2:05:51>> Kodua.

2:05:53>> Miss Kagiada.

2:05:54>> No.

2:05:56>> Mr. Kylie Kleinfielder.

2:05:58>> No.

2:05:59>> Miss Kirkowitz.

2:06:01>> Mr. Onishi. Hi.

2:06:04>> Miss Viegas.

2:06:07Chair Kimble,

2:06:09>> no.

2:06:10>> Mr. Inaba,

2:06:12>> no.

2:06:14>> Chair, you have three votes in favor.

2:06:16Miss Kima, Mr. Houston, Mr. Onishi.

2:06:21Five votes uh in the negative and one

2:06:24absent, Miss Kirkowitz. The motion moves

2:06:26forward to council with unfavorable

2:06:28recommendation.

2:06:29>> Thank you, Mr. Clerk. If we can also um

2:06:32move to the motion that's on the floor

2:06:34with respect to 186 and take the roll

2:06:35call on that unless there's any further

2:06:37discussion on the companion bill.

2:06:38Council member county league clamp

2:06:40builder again keep it brief.

2:06:41>> Thank you. Um for the planning

2:06:43department in review of this application

2:06:46and this bill the amount of land listed

2:06:50is 14.89

2:06:52acres.

2:06:53U can you come up Mr. D?

2:07:11Thank you, director.

2:07:13Probably over it. I I hear you.

2:07:16>> We've been through a lot today.

2:07:17>> Rough day.

2:07:21>> Um, question for for you, sir.

2:07:25When I first began, the LUC had to

2:07:28decide uh land use changes when it hit

2:07:31and triggered a 15 acre mark.

2:07:33>> Over 15 acres.

2:07:35>> I thought that went out the door, but I

2:07:37was reminded that that law is still in

2:07:38effect and it didn't get killed.

2:07:41>> Yes, it's still in effect.

2:07:42>> Okay. I was I see. Is any of this land

2:07:45that's being requested here to move from

2:07:48is it agriculture?

2:07:50>> Correct.

2:07:50>> Was anything in conservation?

2:07:52>> No.

2:07:54And is this the entire ask or is this

2:07:57project as a whole

2:08:00should it be considered better land use

2:08:02commission because 14 14.89 acres is

2:08:06really close.

2:08:08>> We've had some higher than that.

2:08:12But it if it's 15 acres or under it

2:08:15remains with the county. the

2:08:17jurisdiction is the county.

2:08:23And I mean, for decades, we've had these

2:08:26similar types of requests.

2:08:29>> We have and I used to ask this question,

2:08:31but I thought the law had changed. And

2:08:32then I was reminded that it never

2:08:33changed. They try, but it hasn't changed

2:08:36yet. if if you know that the attempts

2:08:39that have been made more recently have

2:08:42been to increase the county's uh

2:08:44authority for a state land use boundary

2:08:47amendments if typically if it's

2:08:50connected with affordable housing or

2:08:52those kind of things.

2:08:54>> Okay. So in this case 14 is it was it

2:08:57clear is it clear 14.89 or is there was

2:09:00there some people because I saw some

2:09:01something in the document that said

2:09:0214.8989

2:09:04plus or minus

2:09:06Plus plus.1

2:09:08acre would put them into the 15

2:09:10category. So I'm just uh

2:09:11>> they have to remain under.

2:09:13>> Okay. And this that is why there's only

2:09:16this little triangular section in the

2:09:17middle of this project.

2:09:19>> That was their choice.

2:09:22>> Yeah.

2:09:22>> By the applicant.

2:09:23>> Correct.

2:09:24>> Okay. Thank you.

2:09:25>> Thank you.

2:09:26>> Thank you, Mr. D.

2:09:28>> All right. Thank you. Seeing no further

2:09:30comments, motions on the floor to

2:09:32forward bill 186 to council with a

2:09:35favorable recommendation. Mr. Clerk,

2:09:36roll call, please.

2:09:38>> On the motion to forward bill 186 to

2:09:41council with a favorable recommendation.

2:09:43Miss Kimba,

2:09:44>> I

2:09:45>> Mr. Eustace,

2:09:46>> I.

2:09:46>> Mr. Inaba,

2:09:48>> no.

2:09:48>> Miss Kagiada,

2:09:50>> no.

2:09:51>> Mr. Connie Kleinfelder,

2:09:52>> no.

2:09:54>> Miss Kirkowitz.

2:09:55>> Mr. Onishi,

2:09:56>> hi. Miss Viegas.

2:10:00>> Chair Kimell.

2:10:01>> No.

2:10:02>> Chair, you have three votes in favor,

2:10:04five nos and one absent. Miss Kirkowitz.

2:10:06>> Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Um, with that, I

2:10:08want to mahalo everybody for their

2:10:10attendance today. Um, thank you, Mrs.

2:10:12Kahakani, for um, staying on so long

2:10:15with us and answering our questions.

2:10:16Appreciate you being here. Um, with

2:10:18that, there is no further business on

2:10:20our agenda today. The time is 2:46 and

2:10:23we are adjourned. Mahalo.

2:10:35The policy committee on environmental

2:10:37and natural resource management will

2:10:39begin at 2:55

2:10:43p.m. I think we could take a minute to

2:10:46move our legs and um

2:10:50>> Yeah, exactly.

```*