2026-09-01 - Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions Committee

00:15Aloha. Good afternoon everyone.

00:19Uh first I just want to thank everybody

00:21for their patience today. I know we are

00:23significantly behind schedule so thank

00:25you for waiting for us to catch up. Um,

00:29welcome to the 30th session of the

00:31committee on legislative approvals and

00:32acquisitions. Today is September 1st and

00:35the time is 4:25.

00:38Here today in the Hilo chambers we have

00:40council member Kagiada, council member

00:41Kerowitz, council member Onishi, council

00:44member, council member Kanye

00:46Kleinfielder, council member Vgas,

00:48council member Galima, and council

00:51member Hustis hiding in the back.

00:56Um all right, we will just dive right

00:58in. Um Mr. Clerk, do we have any

01:01testimony um matters?

01:05>> Thank you so much, Madam [clears throat]

01:07Chair. We do have a couple testifiers

01:09for your meeting today. The first of

01:12which we will take in Hilo and then

01:14we'll go to our Zoom testifier and then

01:16we'll close out with our testifier in

01:18your Yimea uh remote site. So that our

01:22first testifier is Matt Chalker

01:24testifying on bills 186 and 187. Matt,

01:28when you're ready to begin, please turn

01:29the mic on by hitting that green button,

01:31introducing yourself, and if you can

01:33clearly transition between the two

01:34bills. It'll be three minutes per agenda

01:36item. If not, it will be three minutes

01:38total. Thank you.

01:40>> Aloha, Chair Kimble, uh, Vice Chair

01:42Onishi, uh, members of the committee.

01:44I'm Matt Chalker, executive director of

01:46Wildfire Safety Advocates, and I am

01:47speaking on behalf of our organization

01:49today. Um you've heard from me many

01:50times before about the wildfire risks in

01:53W Koa. Um and today we're talking about

01:55a new development that is coming in uh Y

01:57Cloa Green. I mean the first thing I

01:59want to say is these guys are sitting

02:00behind me and I like them. They're nice

02:02people. They came to visit with us and

02:03we talked to them and I respect them. Um

02:05they're thoughtful and they are without

02:07question the best developers in the Y

02:09Cloa region. Uh because they showed up

02:11um and they were thoughtful. We spent an

02:13entire morning with them. We gave them a

02:15tour of the village. Um it was a great

02:16day to do it. It was a very windy day.

02:18um so they could see the hazard

02:20firsthand. We drove around, spent

02:21several hours with them. Um and it was

02:23great. We were it was it was a good

02:25positive conversation. Um and quite

02:27frankly, I think that absent everything

02:29in a vacuum, their project is a good

02:31one. The problem is we are not in a

02:33vacuum. And being friends with someone

02:36does not mean that I think their project

02:38should go forward and is a good idea for

02:40our region. Um and the bottom line is we

02:44need firm commitments for fire safety

02:46and infrastructure in W Koa village

02:49until we get to that point until we have

02:52just a conversation. Up till now it's

02:54always been a conversation is going

02:55right but we don't have anything written

02:58down on paper. There are no firm

03:00commitments. the Leeward Planning

03:02Commission added um an additional uh

03:04requirement onto their uh onto their

03:07application to have an annual report of

03:10what the progress has been on the second

03:13road and on wildfire safety in the

03:15region. The problem is this isn't their

03:17responsibility though the second road

03:19and all of that that's outside of their

03:21application. So they've been assigned to

03:23be reporting on what other people are

03:26doing. This isn't going to move it

03:27forward. This is just going to be a

03:28status update every single year [snorts]

03:31and talking is good, but like I said, we

03:33need commitments and we need real

03:35progress.

03:36A few weeks ago, there was uh about a

03:39month ago now, actually, now I'm

03:40thinking about it, the evacuation study

03:42was released for WO village. I've got a

03:44lot of issues with the actual details in

03:46it, but the bottom line in that

03:48evacuation study is it says the village

03:50doesn't have enough time. says that it

03:52if at most approximately a third of the

03:56people in the community can escape in

03:58the time that it took the fire to go 1.3

04:00miles in Lahina. Sorry, that was

04:02backwards. I'm sorry. It took uh it took

04:0490 minutes for the fire in Lahina to go

04:061.3 miles. The village is approximately

04:10uh 1.3 miles across.

04:11>> 30 seconds, please.

04:13>> The uh I'm sorry, I'm getting

04:16distracted. It's been a very long day. I

04:18expected to testify two hours ago. I

04:19apologize for that. um this bill in

04:23doing so in adjusting the zoning you are

04:26actually authorizing you're giving an

04:28entitlement to WLOA green this is the

04:30third set of entitlements that have gone

04:32onto this exact property over the last

04:3440 years none of those have been built

04:36in the past within the CDP and the

04:38general plan uh documents that you have

04:40it says that approximately 298 units fit

04:43on this site however their overall

04:46zoning application change will

04:48accommodate a total of 7 77 units over

04:52time.

04:52>> Matt, I'm sorry to say, but the three

04:54minutes are up.

04:54>> Okay. I apologize. I didn't know if that

04:56wasn't a good enough transition. I

04:57apologize. Thank you uh uh for the time.

04:59Uh and uh we'll see you again in the

05:01future.

05:02>> Thank you so much for your testimony.

05:04And with that, we'll take our next

05:05testifier via Zoom, Colani Flores,

05:07testifying on the same items. Colani, if

05:10you could please unmute your mic and

05:12introduce yourself. Again, it is three

05:14minutes per agenda item. If you can

05:15clearly transition, if not, it will be

05:17three minutes total. Please introduce

05:18yourself.

05:20And first of all, just a clarification.

05:21I request the three minutes each for

05:24each of the bills and and as some of the

05:27testimony covers both of them as well,

05:29but I'll try to show where the let me

05:30know where the three minutes comes up

05:32and I'll continue on. But first of all,

05:34I'd like to also acknowledge and say

05:36aloha to the chair and council members

05:38today. I know it's been a long day for

05:40everyone. Uh my name is Eani Flores

05:44representing self and also representing

05:46the Flores case Ohana. First off, I just

05:48want to make a notice that my testimony,

05:51written testimony was submitted late and

05:53that had to do in part that the county

05:55website was not working this past couple

05:57days. And even up to yesterday, I

05:59couldn't pull documents, agendas, files

06:01from it. And so

06:04otherwise, I would have submitted a more

06:05thorough and more detailed and

06:09testimony, but I did have some bullet

06:11points. And basically what I'm asking

06:14regarding bills 186 and 187 asking the

06:17county council to defer action on these

06:19bills at this time and at this time

06:21until specific items can be completed.

06:25These items include one an inventory of

06:28all existing pumping and authorized

06:31planned use requiring groundwater from

06:34the Yame aquifer.

06:37Point two, a report from the Hawaii

06:41water service of any aggregated daily

06:44pumpage of their wells in the Waloa area

06:46over the last 12 months or the most

06:49recent 12-month period for which data is

06:51available to determine the overall

06:54groundwater pumping in this region.

06:57And number three in this particular

06:59matter is an analysis as to whether or

07:02not the proposed development in addition

07:05to existing pumping and authorized plan

07:08use would exceed the sustainable yield

07:11of the Yimir aquifer.

07:14Okay. So let me explain those three

07:16points there. What I'm really asking is

07:18like do does this project

07:21is there sufficient water for this

07:23particular project? This particular

07:25project is within the Yame aquifer

07:29and there is a map that it gave in my in

07:31my testimony as such. I know I can't see

07:34it here but it is in Y aquifer. The YL

07:37aquifer the sustainable yield is 16

07:40million gallons a day.

07:43Okay. Yes, the project did get a service

07:46notice from Hawaii water service saying

07:49they can provide water, but all they're

07:52saying is they can provide the

07:53infrastructure in the service to get the

07:56water to the project. But there's no

07:58explanation, there's no analysis as to

08:01how that would impact the 16 million

08:04gallons 16 million gallons a day

08:07sustainable yield.

08:10At the moment from estimates

08:13the yield at the moment the pumpage of

08:15existing pumpage at the 30 seconds

08:17aquifer

08:18>> 30 seconds

08:19>> thank you

08:20>> the the aquifer at this moment is over

08:2314 million gallons a day. So even though

08:26they say they can give this much amount

08:28of water, there's no explanation or

08:31analysis as to how that would impact the

08:33Yale aquifer. And so my concern as a

08:37resident of Pukapa Himea, we sit upon

08:40the Yale aquifer as well. So that's a

08:44significant part that hasn't been

08:45discussed or even brought out in in in

08:49the all the documents that we're able to

08:50look through. Other points,

08:52>> Colony, the first the three minutes are

08:54up. If you'd like to transition, this is

08:56your opportunity. But if not, those are

08:58your three minutes for your testimony.

08:59>> I'd like to to continue. Thank you so

09:01much. So, the other things asking for is

09:04an environment assessment of the project

09:06pursuant to HRS chapter 343. It's

09:10contended that they're subject to an

09:12environmental assessment based upon the

09:15following points. And this would also

09:17cover bill 196 186 as well. So, in

09:24When you look at chapter 343, there's

09:26there certain triggers for the

09:29development I mean which certain

09:31triggers for environmental assessment

09:33and it's contended that they trigger 345

09:36I mean 343-5A

09:39they trigger number one the proposed use

09:42of state land and you say well it's not

09:44state land but there is a possibility

09:47that the historic trail that runs

09:49through there from the Kokua co trail is

09:54is state property because it would come

09:56under the highways act of 1892. It would

09:59also be under point item four a propose

10:02any use within a historic site. And so

10:05we're saying that there is a potential

10:06that there is a historic site that has

10:08initially been identified with this

10:10particular trail. Point six, propose any

10:14amendments to existing county general

10:16plans, which we're seeing what's

10:17happening in this amendment here. And

10:19and lastly, point nine of the chapter

10:23343 says any proposal to for a power

10:27generating facility. In the proposal

10:29that I saw that was presented in a

10:32PowerPoint, it says that they're

10:34proposing a solar fac and power

10:37generating facility there. So I'm saying

10:39there should be a three there should be

10:41an environment assessment over and there

10:44should be also a robust robust kapa

10:47analysis. There should be a public

10:49access plan that addresses the trail.

10:51There should be an evacuation plan that

10:54that conforms that was the last speaker

10:56spoke about and there should be a

10:58communityformational

10:59meeting regarding this project to be

11:01held in Waloa village by the applicant

11:04that has not occurred. There should be a

11:06community meeting. This project is

11:07massive to give you the scale of it. the

11:11size of the project is close to the size

11:13not say the size of the property is

11:15close to the size of the existing W

11:18coloa village that's already been

11:19developed. If this project the

11:23households in white colo at the moment

11:24is like 2500 this project intends to put

11:28in like over 850 units. That's a 30%

11:33increase in the population for white

11:36coloa. A 30% increase.

11:38>> 30 seconds please.

11:40And so once again, I ask I call upon the

11:44real simply I ask the the county council

11:48to address these particular points and

11:50defer these bills until these matters

11:52can be addressed so that you can make an

11:54informed decision and that and the

11:57potential impacts on those items that

11:59listed. And at this time if there's any

12:04questions or inquiries, I'm free to

12:06answer any as such.

12:08Thank you for your testimony, chair. Our

12:10final testifier is in our Yimea remote

12:12site. So, if Kendra, if you could please

12:14close us out with our final testifier.

12:18>> Thank you, Rally. Good afternoon. In

12:20your W in your Yimea council office

12:22today, we have Bob Yunki testifying on

12:25bills 186 and 187. Mr. Yoni, you will

12:30have three minutes per agenda item.

12:32Please let me know when you transition

12:34so we can reset your time. And if you do

12:37not clearly transition, then you will

12:38have three minutes total. Please

12:40reintroduce yourself before you begin by

12:43stating your first and last name. And

12:45mahalo for your testimony today.

12:48>> Thank you, Kendra, and thank you uh uh

12:51Mr. Chairman and members of the

12:53committee. I appreciate uh the

12:55opportunity to testify on this matter

12:57today. As you all know, we've been very

13:00much uh concerned about the lack of

13:03adequate capacity to evacuate the

13:05village during wildfire. It's an issue

13:07that we brought up for years with with

13:10various officials, including testimony

13:13previously to council. We were very

13:15disturbed that that issue was not

13:18addressed at all by the planning

13:20department in the background report that

13:22was prepared for this project and made

13:25available to the Leard Planning

13:27Commission.

13:28None of the information uh regarding

13:31evacuation difficulties was addressed in

13:34that report. And so what we have done is

13:38to submit detailed testimony yesterday

13:41in comment written comments that uh

13:45report the specific information that has

13:48accumulated over a number of years about

13:51the difficulty with evacuation from the

13:54village during wildfire.

13:56Uh, and I want to walk you through some

13:59of the critical points in that testimony

14:02because what's really important here is

14:04to understand that this project, which

14:07will add roughly 1,900 residents to the

14:10village, uh, is is one of only four

14:14projects that all together are expected

14:17to add 6,000 residents to the village.

14:20We currently are 7,000 residents. So it

14:23will increase the population here over

14:25the next 10 years to 13,000

14:29and we already are lacking the uh the

14:33capacity needed to be able to evacuate.

14:36That was demonstrated back in 2021 when

14:38the mayor ordered an evacuation during

14:41the Monafire. Uh at that time people uh

14:45spent an hour simply traveling from the

14:49school to the traffic uh intersection at

14:54Walora Road. That normally is a 4-minute

14:57trip.

14:59But that hour uh of course was was not

15:03an hour for the whole village. It took

15:05many hours for for most of the village

15:07to evacuate.

15:09But what we've saw in in Lahina and this

15:12is really critical is that the fire once

15:15it being driven under red flag

15:18conditions that that's that's the key

15:20element here. You know white glow has

15:22red flag conditions many times a year

15:25because of the high winds that we have

15:28and when a fire starts here it moves

15:31fast. uh the police chief or the fire

15:34chief uh Todd last year before he passed

15:37came to the village and he spoke with us

15:39and he said we the fire department

15:42cannot stop a fire under those

15:44conditions. The only thing that the

15:47village can do to save lives is to be

15:50prepared to evacuate. So the question is

15:53how much can we evacuate? And that's

15:56where the evacuation study came into uh

15:58that that the county had been preparing

16:01for two years, the results of which

16:03became available just last month.

16:06Uh and when it's time, I'd like to

16:09transition for the second three minutes.

16:12Uh but the the um the critical point

16:15here is that the evacuation study shows

16:20that during the first hour

16:23uh after an evacuation is ordered, which

16:26is the time when people will likely be

16:28able to escape the flames before the

16:31flames reach into the village far enough

16:35uh to block Penniolo Drive. That first

16:39hour is only going to accommodate 2,000

16:42residents.

16:43If we have 13,000 instead of 7,000, that

16:47means that 5,000 are left behind now,

16:51but it'll be 11,000 who get stuck in the

16:55flames if we add all of these new

16:57developments without first putting in

17:00the road capacity that we need to get

17:02out.

17:03What we're talking about here is an

17:05inferno.

17:07It's a fern. We saw the inferno in

17:09Lahina. We know what it is. We've got to

17:12be able to escape to save lives. And if

17:16we simply keep getting more people and

17:17more people and more people without

17:20creating the capacity to evacuate, we're

17:23we're talking about increasing the the

17:26victim's list.

17:28You know, the Lina incident report

17:30prepared by the attorney general was

17:32really important information here. What

17:35that showed was that under the red flag

17:37conditions, the fire burned 1.3 miles

17:41into the town of Lahina in the first 90

17:45minutes.

17:471.3 miles is the entire width of Wollo

17:50village from Malca to Makai.

17:54That means that in the first 90 minutes

17:56of a fire coming into our community,

17:59it's going to burn through the community

18:01and it'll get to W to Paneolo Drive

18:04first easily within the first hour. So

18:07the first hour is is the best that we

18:10have for getting out

18:11>> one minute.

18:12>> And the first hour is the evacuation

18:15study is telling us we can only get

18:182,000 people out.

18:21So adding more population here without

18:25putting in the additional road capacity

18:29is irresponsible. It's putting this

18:32community at risk. And that's what we're

18:35asking for. That would these projects be

18:37delayed until the capacity we need to

18:40save lives is put in place.

18:44And what we're saying to you is when

18:47those fires come, are you as the council

18:50going to be able to ask yourselves, we

18:53did everything we could to save lives,

18:55or is there going to be blood on your

18:57hands?

18:59Thank you.

19:01>> Thank you.

19:04>> And with that, chair, those

19:06[clears throat] are all the testifiers

19:07you have at the beginning of your

19:08meeting. Sorry,

19:10>> Mr. Crook. Uh, if you would read in um

19:14resolution 632-26.

19:16>> Last chance. If anyone would like to

19:18testify in resolution 632-26,

19:21please speak up now.

19:24Hearing and seeing none. Resolution

19:25632-26

19:27authorizes the director of finance to

19:29enter into negotiations for the

19:30acquisition of lands or cons

19:32conservation easements for all or

19:34portion of properties identified as tax

19:36map keys 1-5- 088 009 010 011 012 and

19:44013. also known as Vayakahula village

19:48ocean access and tax map keys 1-5-063042

19:53and 043 also known as Vakahaya burial

19:57site 19014 and agriculture complex site

20:0119013 both situ s situated in the aua of

20:05vayakahayula district of puna using the

20:07public access open space and natural

20:09resources preservation fund the county

20:11seeks to acquire approximately 1505

20:14acres of land listed as the fifth and

20:16sixth highest priorities in the 2025

20:18annual report of the public access open

20:20space and natural resources preservation

20:22commission introduced by council member

20:23Kirkowitz.

20:25>> Chair motion to forward resolution

20:27632-26 to the council with a favorable

20:30recommendation.

20:31>> Motion by council member Kirkwitz,

20:33second by council member Hustus to

20:35forward resolution 632 to council with a

20:38favorable recommendation. Council member

20:39Kirkwitz.

20:40>> Thank you chair. It gives me great

20:42pleasure to bring this resolution

20:43forward. It is it is a required step in

20:46our process to introduce a resolution to

20:49authorize the finance director to begin

20:51negotiations for acquisition of punk

20:53nominated parcels. These two particular

20:56parcels as our clerk noted were listed

20:58as number five and six on the 2025 Pon

21:01Commission report. Um these particular

21:04parcels there is a sense of urgency to

21:06acquire. Um, one property owner has said

21:09that they will develop. Um, which is

21:10very concerning because there is a a

21:12damaged burial site on the property. Um,

21:15and there's been indication that not

21:17only will they build, but they would

21:18likely do a vacation rental. So, there

21:20is a sense of urgency to start having

21:23those conversations. Um there is another

21:25parcel that is adjacent to the um county

21:29park uh recently renamed as Wahi Ula

21:33that would be complimentary to all of

21:34the community efforts right now to

21:37steward that a pua. Um, so just you

21:40know, mahalanui to Noah O'Brien and John

21:44Marshall, constituents and community who

21:46have um really been strong advocates and

21:49voices in that area mobilizing petitions

21:52and testimony in support of this

21:54particular acquisition. Um, I know that

21:56our property manager, uh, Shannon Arola

21:59has been here many, many hours and can

22:01answer any questions folks might have

22:03about the process, but again, this is

22:05the necessary step that our finance

22:07director needs in order to begin the

22:09process of entering into negotiation.

22:11So, just looking for everyone's support.

22:13Thank you.

22:14>> Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else

22:16on this item? Seeing none, all those in

22:19favor, please say I.

22:20>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have nine

22:23eyes. Resolution 632 is forwarded to

22:26council with a favorable with a

22:27favorable recommendation. Next item,

22:29please.

22:30>> If anyone would like to testify in bill

22:32181, please speak up now. This is your

22:34last chance.

22:37hearing and seeing none. Bill 181 amends

22:39section 25-8-33

22:41city of Hilo district zone map article 8

22:44chapter 25 zoning code of the Hawaii

22:46County code 2016 edition as amended by

22:49changing the district classification

22:50from single family residential 15,000 ft

22:53RS15 to single family residential 10,000

22:56ft RS10 at Wakaya South Hilo Hawaii

22:59covered by tax map key 2-4-01416

23:03applicant Zack Iawa area 2100 792 square

23:08ft. The Winward Planning Commission

23:10forwards its favorable recommendation

23:11for this requested change of zone which

23:13would allow the applicant to subdivide

23:15the property into two lots. The property

23:17is located at 283 West Point Street

23:20introduced by council member Kimble by

23:21request and communication 105.1 from

23:25planning director Jeffrey W. Darrow

23:27dated July 28, 2026. Transmitting a

23:29PowerPoint presentation for bill 181.

23:32Chair

23:32>> motion to forward bill 181 to the

23:34council with a favorable recommendation.

23:37Motion by council member Kirkwood,

23:39seconded by council member Kagiada to

23:41forward bill 181 to council with a

23:43favorable recommendation. Director,

23:46>> thank you chair and members of the

23:50Hawaii County Council. Jeff Daryl with

23:52the planning department. This uh

23:55applicant is Zach Seto. He's requesting

23:58a change of zone.

24:01Uh this is located within the South Hilo

24:04District of Hawaii. more specifically

24:07identified with a red star.

24:10Uh the applicant is requesting a change

24:12of zone from single family residential

24:1515,000 square ft zoning district to a

24:18single family residential 10,000 ft RS10

24:23zoning district for 21,792

24:27square ft uh square foot parcel of land.

24:32Upon subdivision approval, the applicant

24:34intends to construct single family

24:37dwellings on the resulting lots for

24:39long-term residential rental purposes

24:42and for future estate planning. Uh this

24:46is our county zoning map. This

24:49identifies the uh area of the

24:53application

24:54situated within the single family uh

24:57residential 10 15,000 square ft

25:01identified with a mustard color. Uh

25:03you'll see the other colors that

25:05represent uh other zonings. The yellow

25:09is RS10 zoning and the purple is our

25:13university zoning. This is our state

25:16land use boundary designation map which

25:20identifies the area as urban. And this

25:23is our general plan identifying the area

25:27uh for low density uh urban uses.

25:33This is a submitted site plan for the

25:36subdivision.

25:38And this is uh aerial photos of the

25:41property which is apparently currently

25:44vacant.

25:46And this is some site photos identifying

25:49the property on West Point Poenico

25:52Street. We're facing south with the

25:54property on the right. And here are some

25:58more. Uh the one on the left is facing

26:01Mai

26:03with the property on the right. And this

26:05is facing Malco with the property on the

26:07left.

26:11At its July 2nd, 2026 meeting, the

26:15Winward Planning Commission voted to

26:17forward a favorable recommendation on

26:21this application to the county council

26:23based on the planning director's

26:25recommendation. Thank you.

26:29>> Thank you, director. Um is I don't

26:31believe the applicant

26:34oh right behind [laughter]

26:37the applicant the applicant

26:38representative wants to add any

26:42to the introduction please come to the

26:45table.

26:47>> Aloha chair Kimell members of the

26:50council thank you all for being here.

26:52Your your endurance and efficiency today

26:55is is appreciated. um very simple

26:57request in line with similar requests in

27:01the area uh not too long ago. This

27:03affects a

27:05an effective land use pattern in the

27:07area and promotes infill. Um if you have

27:11any questions, please, we're here to to

27:14do our best to answer them. Appreciate

27:16it.

27:18>> Any questions for the applicant and the

27:20director? Council member Kirkwitz.

27:22>> Uh no questions. I just want to extend

27:24my support. Um I know Mr. sites is a

27:26small business owner and so I saw him

27:28here for many hours today. I appreciate

27:30you just being here um on standby. I

27:33think this request is very simple and

27:35straightforward and as Mr. Pippen um

27:37mentioned it is in alignment with the

27:39general development of the area. So I'm

27:41happy to support the request today and

27:43the future estate planning purposes that

27:45you've articulated in the application.

27:47Thank you.

27:48>> Thank you council member for voice

27:49council member Connie Lee Kleiner. Thank

27:51you chair to the planning department.

27:53Just looking at the fair share

27:55contribution

27:58and I I'm gonna ask this question again

28:01some of the the later bills but this one

28:03was set for 19,000 per

28:06single family residential.

28:12I I am going to ask this on the next

28:14couple bills too because they're

28:15different. So the valuation on the Hilo

28:18homes in comparison with some of the

28:21other ones we'll be looking at later is

28:23going to be my question

28:26pointing out

28:28the fair share contribution for the lots

28:31in Hilo versus the ones we're going to

28:33be reviewing.

28:33>> Yeah, they should be the same. So that

28:35might be uh something on our part. I'll

28:38need to look at that um and see what the

28:41difference is.

28:42>> Thank you.

28:42>> Thank you. Yep. Council

28:46member Kaggy, just real quick, offering

28:48my support as well. I can see that many

28:51of the the lots in that neighborhood are

28:54um closer to the 10,000 square foot size

28:57and it makes a lot of sense to to add

29:00this density there. So, I'm I'm

29:01supportive. Thanks.

29:04>> Thank you. Anyone else?

29:06Seeing none,

29:08just under the wire. Council member V.

29:11Um, yeah, I fully honor the opinions of

29:14those that represent where this property

29:16is on the east side. I just have my own

29:19humble novice experience. Pinoico can be

29:22quite tricky with the amount of traffic

29:25on that road. Um, so hoping and trusting

29:29that those considerations will be taken

29:32when adding any traffic to that road. um

29:35because infill is necessary or it seems

29:38to be assigned and in alignment with the

29:42plans um there but uh yeah

29:47infrastructure needs for roads to ensure

29:49safety to the um public and whoever

29:53lives there as well. So I'll be in

29:55support today. Just a humble insight.

30:00Thank you.

30:01>> Thank you council member. Anyone else?

30:04Seeing none. All those in favor, please

30:05say I.

30:07>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have nine

30:09eyes. Bill 181 is forwarded. Council

30:11with a favorable recommendation item,

30:13please.

30:14>> Thank you, folks.

30:15>> If anyone would like to testify in bill

30:17185, please speak up now.

30:22>> Hearing and seeing none, bill 185 amends

30:24section 25-8-11.

30:26Lao Puapu District Zone Map, Article 8,

30:30Chapter 25, Zoning Code of the Hawaii

30:32County Code, 2016 edition. as amended by

30:34changing the district classification

30:36from agriculture 40 acres A40-

30:39family agriculture 1 acre FA-1A

30:43at Pu Capu Vit covered by tax map key

30:466-4-018030

30:49applicants Jacqueline Vizer Honlay Vizer

30:52and Gilbert Vizer area 2.397 acres the

30:55Libra planning commission forwards his

30:57favorable recommendation for this

30:58requested change of zone which allow the

31:00applicant to create two lot subdivision

31:02of 1 acre each. The property is located

31:04at 64-5091

31:07White Road. Introduced by council member

31:08Kimble by request and communication

31:111024.1 from planning director Jeffrey W.

31:14Darl dated July 27, 2026. Transmitting a

31:18PowerPoint presentation for bill 185.

31:21>> Chair motion to forward bill 185 to

31:23council with a positive recommendation.

31:26>> Motion by council member Ha, seconded by

31:28council member Galima to forward bill

31:30185 to council with a favorable

31:31recommendation. director if you'd like

31:33to give us an introduction.

31:36>> Sure. Thank you. Um Jeff Darl with the

31:40planning department. Um if I could

31:43direct your attention to our

31:44presentation. This is an application for

31:48Jacqueline Visser, Honlay Viser, and

31:51Gilbert Visser. They are requesting a

31:53change of zone. Uh the area of this

31:56application is if is within the South

31:59Kala district. More specifically, we're

32:01looking at the Yimea area identified

32:04with a red star. The applicant is

32:07requesting a change of zone from an

32:09agricultural 40 acres a 40 to a family a

32:14agricultural 1acre FA1 acre zoning

32:18district for 2.397 acres of land. If the

32:23requested land use entitlement change is

32:26approved, the applicants propose to

32:28subdivide the subject parcel into two

32:31lots consisting of a minimum of 1 acre

32:34each, allowing two family members to

32:37construct a single family dwelling on

32:40their respective lots.

32:42This is the county zoning map which

32:45identifies the zoning in the particular

32:48area. The light blue identifies

32:51agricultural 40 acre. The green to the

32:54right identifies agricultural 1 acre.

32:58This is our state land use boundary map.

33:01It identifies the area as state land use

33:05agricultural. And this is our uh general

33:09plan map and it identifies the area as

33:13important agricultural lands.

33:16Um this is the updated map. Uh this

33:22application came within that transition.

33:25So it identifies the new uh general plan

33:29designation as rural.

33:32Um this is the uh South Kohala map of um

33:39for the coming out of the South Kohala

33:42community development plan and the

33:45identified subject property has a red

33:48aerial pointing to it which identifies

33:50it as residential type uses.

33:55This is a

33:57uh map of the proposed subdivision. one

34:01uh property is smaller than the other.

34:05And this is an aerial photo identifying

34:08the property with a blue outline. And

34:11these are some site photos. uh one

34:14facing south on right road,

34:18White Road and the property is

34:22I believe this is on the left right?

34:32Yeah. Is the property on the right? I

34:34believe it's on the right.

34:36Maybe it's on the left.

34:39On the right. And then the um photo to

34:44the left uh the property is on the left.

34:47And again this is right road white road.

34:51And lastly this is um a view of the

34:54subject property facing southwest.

35:01The applicant I this is one of the

35:04proposed conditions. Um, condition B,

35:08the applicant shall construct necessary

35:10water system improvements as required by

35:13the Department of Water Supply, which

35:15may include but not be may not be

35:17limited to the installation of a fire

35:20hydrant spaced no more than 600 ft apart

35:25and within 300 ft from the driveway

35:27access uh or access to the lot.

35:34These are also proposed conditions. Um

35:38I'm not going to read them. Um but they

35:41are talking about the 10-ft future road

35:43widening uh on the property. It replaces

35:47uh our current condition D. And so these

35:51are proposed conditions.

35:55the at its June 18th, 2026 meeting, the

36:00Leeward Planning Commission voted to

36:02forward a favorable recommendation to

36:05the county council based on the planning

36:08director's recommendation along with the

36:11proposed amendments that we had read.

36:15That concludes our presentation.

36:17I can address council member Kane Lee

36:21Kleinfelder's

36:23question.

36:24So what happens is every year we get an

36:28updated fair share uh report. This

36:32particular application was submitted in

36:34April and it likely had the older um

36:39number and the previous was submitted in

36:43June and that's exactly the time we

36:46receive the updated report. Um and so

36:50that's the difference uh of that. It

36:52just happens to be timing. Every year

36:55when we receive that updated report, we

36:58update our fair share figures.

37:03>> Thank you.

37:05>> Thank you.

37:05>> All right. I'd like to invite the

37:07applicant and the applicant's

37:08representative up to

37:12>> add anything else.

37:19Aloha Kako U John Pippen again uh here

37:23representing and assisting Jacqueline

37:25Visser to my left on her application uh

37:28that would allow her to subdivide this

37:302.3 acre property into two lots greater

37:33than 1 acre each. Um we feel it's

37:36fitting with um other lots in the area.

37:38If you refer to the map uh attached to

37:41the the draft bill, there are

37:44approximately 1acre lots uh on the east

37:47side of White Road. um very near the the

37:50subject property. Um this does align

37:53with the new and improved uh general

37:55plan land use designation for rural um

37:59and it was actually also consistent with

38:02the the previous designation of

38:04important a land. Um we appreciate the

38:08work of the planning department um and

38:11bringing forward our proposed

38:13conditions. Um the requirement to

38:17install a fire hydrant uh is is

38:20expensive and difficult. Um and

38:23originally we had request to to delete

38:25that entirely, but uh we were happy in

38:27the in the middle ground to just change

38:29SHA to May. So we've got a little bit of

38:32wiggle room potentially to work with

38:34Department of Water Supply uh to maybe

38:36share that burden with with uh

38:38neighboring property owners. So, um,

38:41with that, if you have any questions,

38:42we're we're happy to address them. Uh, I

38:45appreciate your your support.

38:48>> Thank you. All right, Council Member

38:50Hust.

38:51>> Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Pippen.

38:52Mister, good to see you this evening.

38:54Um, the Department of Water Supply,

38:58where's the closest fire hydrant in

39:00relation to the property itself?

39:01>> It's much nearer the

39:04>> whole highway.

39:05>> Yeah, much nearer the highway off White

39:07Road. There is one on on White Road. Um,

39:09I wasn't able to actually locate it when

39:11driving down White Road. It may be

39:12obscured by vegetation, but I understand

39:15there may be one there in the bushes.

39:18>> And then, um, Director Der actually,

39:20probably a question for you on this one.

39:23Um,

39:26just in terms of the Department of

39:28Public Works and the setback there,

39:31what's your sense from public works and

39:33actually pursuing the widening of the

39:35road on for White Road? I I

39:40uh originally my thought would be better

39:44to widen the pavement. Uh but in

39:48discussing it with public works, they

39:50felt that um it's more appropriate for

39:53them to ask for the future road widening

39:56setback for any future road widening

39:59that they would do to be able to

40:02guesstimate as to what the likelihood

40:05that would be or when or uh I couldn't

40:08even tell you.

40:10>> Okay. Yeah. Um because that that setback

40:14I mean it's already a smaller parcel

40:16that's on that on the frontage side. So

40:19you already are going to lose some of

40:20that um acreage there on that side,

40:22right? That's that's been considered in

40:23the proposal.

40:25>> Okay.

40:27John, if you could just say that on the

40:28on the record here. Sorry.

40:31>> Yes. Thank you. Uh I reviewed with Miss

40:33Visser the proposed conditions including

40:35the future road widening setback and and

40:38we find them acceptable.

40:39>> Okay.

40:40>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate this.

40:42Um, yeah, I had a good conversation with

40:43a couple of the neighbors on White Road

40:45that didn't have any issues or concerns

40:47about the pro the project. So, thank

40:49you. Thanks, Sher.

40:51>> Thank you, Council Member Houston.

40:53Anyone else?

40:55Council member Confer.

40:57>> Thank you, Mr. Daryl.

41:01Thank you for looking at the fair share

41:03contribution numbers. Uh, the next one

41:06is coming through. So when we have

41:08applications come in at the at different

41:10times, the fair share fair share

41:13contributions maybe for one or two lots

41:16negligible for a bigger subdivision

41:19uh much more impactful

41:22in this case. Do the fair share

41:24contributions become even for just as

41:28they're coming to the council or they

41:30stay the same as when they were

41:31submitted to the planning department or

41:33to the county?

41:37Ironically, this is the first time that

41:40I've seen this happen.

41:41>> I've been here eight years and this is

41:43the first time you've ever seen this in

41:44your life.

41:46I mean to to see two applications with

41:49different uh fair share. And the reason

41:52why is because they came in at different

41:56times when that split happened cuz our

41:58our staff is really good at making sure

42:02they update the fair share requirements

42:05every year. But ironically this one one

42:09application was delayed longer than the

42:11other and so they came up with different

42:13fair share. It seems um it it doesn't

42:18seem right, you know, just thinking that

42:21two applications at the same time have

42:23such a difference on fair share. So, we

42:27definitely um when I get back, we'll

42:30talk with staff and figure out uh what

42:32we can do is possibly propose an

42:36adjustment. Um but it really it's a

42:40tough one whether you go up or whether

42:42you come down, right? It's it's still

42:44that fair share um timeline that we go

42:48by when we get the updated figures. What

42:51typically happens it says that um it's

42:54adjusted every once 3 years happens then

42:58if they don't do the project and they

43:02come in everything is adjusted by the uh

43:06Honolulu Consumer Price Index. So they

43:08look at it and then that seems to equal

43:11out the numbers at that point. Typically

43:14it does take people a while to be able

43:17to get that. But for a smaller project

43:19like this, they may get it done in a

43:22year or two and they will be stuck with

43:25the different uh prices. But if you're

43:29okay with that, we'll take a look at

43:30that when I get back and see if we can

43:33uh adjust it to make it somehow more

43:36reasonable.

43:38Uh yes yes please. And then if I

43:40remember correctly in previous directors

43:43having this discussion the fair share

43:45contribution number is a very much a

43:47roving number that we we do our best to

43:50put together based on the Honolulu price

43:52index.

43:55>> But it really is up to us. Uh

43:58>> yeah.

43:59>> Yeah, it's it's got its it's uh it's

44:03adjustable figures that are adjusted

44:06every year per that index. So it's it's

44:10it's not random. It's definitely based

44:13on that index.

44:16Take a look at it. And then I I mean

44:18just logically

44:20prices should be landing at the prices

44:24we're seeing in our environment.

44:26Inflation's crazy.

44:28>> We don't know what's going on with

44:29goods, oil, fertilizer, blah blah blah.

44:32So, we should be pricing these

44:35accordingly as the projects are landing,

44:38not based on something that's four years

44:39ago or three years ago or five years

44:41ago. That that makes more sense to me

44:43logically if we're looking to use fair

44:45share contributions

44:47to offset the impact of density and

44:50development in our communities. So, yes,

44:52please take a look at the numbers.

44:54>> Thank you. Thank you. And then as far as

44:56the road easement, uh I live on a road

44:58that actually is very similar to what's

45:01happening and I know you're laughing

45:02because you know it's true. Um, so

45:06having the 10- foot easement set aside

45:08is good because as we allow more things

45:12like this to happen and your neighbors

45:14start to do the same thing, which is

45:15what's going to happen, and then the

45:17neighborhood behind you or around you

45:19and you become interconnected, the more

45:21vehicles on the road mean you're going

45:23to need to widen that road or else

45:25you're all going to be pulling into each

45:26other's driveways and pulling off the

45:27road and someone will go in the ditch.

45:30It just it's important. So, thank you

45:32for clarifying that in this uh

45:35ordinance. I appreciate that. Thank you.

45:38I yield, chair.

45:40>> Thank you, council member. Any further

45:42questions from the body? All right,

45:44seeing none, all those in favor, please

45:46say I.

45:47>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven

45:51eyes. Council member Enava and Onishi

45:54absent.

45:55>> Thank you very much.

45:57>> Again, thank you for your patience

45:59today.

46:06If you don't mind, madam chair, I can

46:07read in both bill 1861 187 and then

46:10we'll take one motion at a time. Um, if

46:13anybody would like to testify on bill

46:15186 or 187, please speak up now.

46:21Hearing and seeing none. Bill 186 amends

46:23the state land use boundary district

46:25boundaries map by changing the district

46:27classification from agriculture to urban

46:29at white kaloa south kohala havi covered

46:32by tax map key 6-8-00002016

46:37and bill 187 amend section 25-8-14

46:41y koa village district zone map article

46:438 chapter 25 zoning code of the Hawaii

46:46county code 2016 edition as amended by

46:48changing the district classification

46:50from residential and agriculture 1 acre

46:52RA1A and open O to multiple family

46:56residential 1500 square ft RM1.5 family

47:00agriculture 1 acre FA1A agricultural 10

47:04acres A 10A and open O at W Koa South

47:08Kohala Hawaii covered by a portion of

47:09tax map key 6-8-00216

47:14applicant wala green LLC area 14.868 868

47:18acres. The Leeward Planning Commission

47:20forwards its favorable recommendation

47:21for this amendment to the state land use

47:23boundaries map for the requested change

47:25of zone which would allow the applicant

47:27to develop a 400 unit multiple family

47:29housing complex with a clubhouse and

47:31related improvements. The property is

47:33located on the southeast side of Puia

47:35Street approximately 810 ft south of its

47:38intersection with Wola Road. Introduced

47:40by council member Kimble by request and

47:42communication 1025.1

47:45from planning director Jeffrey W. Darrow

47:47dated July 27, 2026. Transmitting

47:49PowerPoint pre presentations for bills

47:52186 and 187.

47:55>> Have a motion to forward bill 186 to

47:58council with a positive recommendation.

48:00>> Motion by council member Husta, seconded

48:02by council member Kirkwitz to forward

48:04bill 186 to council with a favorable

48:06recommendation. Director,

48:10>> thank you chair. Uh thank you members of

48:14the Hawaii County Council. Jeff Darl

48:16with the planning department. Uh our

48:18next application is Walawoa Green LLC.

48:22They are requesting a state land use

48:24district boundary amendment as well as a

48:27change of zone.

48:29The area of this application is within

48:32the south Kohala district. More

48:34specifically, we're looking at the Waloa

48:38area identified with a red star.

48:42The applicant is requesting a state land

48:44use boundary amendment from an

48:46agricultural to an urban district for a

48:5014.868

48:51acre portion of a 716.63

48:57acre parcel of land. They are also

49:00requesting a change of zone from a

49:02residential and agricultural 1acre RA1

49:06acre and open zoning district to a

49:09multifamily

49:1015,000500

49:14square feet.

49:14>> Chair point of information

49:17the the presentation and the motion I

49:19have on the floor is specific to the

49:20state land use amendment.

49:22>> So I don't know how you want to handle

49:24that.

49:24>> We were just discussing that very

49:26matter. Um the presentation was

49:28presented with both bills and has been

49:31read in with both bills. We can only

49:35deal with one amendment at a time, but

49:37since they're inextricably linked, I'm

49:40going to allow the director to address

49:42both through the p the presentation at

49:44this time.

49:46>> Thanks, chair. It does cause some

49:48confusion, though.

49:49>> It it does now. It has many times

49:51before. um an improved process to do

49:54this is desirable, but for right now and

49:57for the sake of continuity, we'll

50:01continue to do it this way.

50:03>> Go ahead, director.

50:04>> Apologize.

50:06Uh the applicant is requesting a change

50:09of zone from residential and

50:11agricultural 1acre RA 1 acre and open

50:15zoning district to a multifamily

50:17residential 1500 square ft RM

50:221.5

50:24family agricultural 1acre FA1 acre

50:27agricultural 10 acres A 10 and open

50:31zoning districts for a 79

50:349.145

50:37acre portion of a 716.63

50:42acre parcel of land.

50:45Reasons for the request. The 14.868 868

50:49acre area to be redesated to urban will

50:53be reszoned to RM1.5

50:56to accommodate a 400 unit multifamily

51:00residential development including a

51:02clubhouse and associated improvements.

51:06The remainder of the property will

51:08retain its state land use agricultural

51:11designation and be reszoned as follows.

51:14320.024

51:16024 acres to family agricultural 1 acre

51:21to develops 275

51:24family agricultural lots.

51:27264.123

51:29acres to AG 10 to create 16 minimum

51:3410acre lots that may accommodate a food

51:37hub and potential solar energy

51:40infrastructure

51:42and a 110 9.967

51:47acres to open to support open space and

51:52public trail corridors.

51:56Note, two non-ontiguous portions of the

52:01parent parcel totaling 7.485

52:05acres have been excluded from change of

52:08zone request because they are subject to

52:11a separate sales agreement with

52:14different owners.

52:16Project phasing and cost. The project is

52:20planned to be developed through three

52:22phases and completed by 2045.

52:26Phase one to be completed in 2035.

52:31Approximately 400 multifamily units

52:35clubhouse 11 agricultural act 10 lots

52:39and the Mai project access road from

52:44Walawo road and the project roadway

52:47access from Pua Malia Street. Phase two

52:51to be completed in 2038.

52:54approximately 100 family agricultural

52:57lots.

52:59Phase three to be completed in 2045,

53:03approximately

53:04175 family agricultural lots and the

53:08Malca project driveway along Walo Road,

53:12remaining five agricultural 10 lots.

53:16Estimated construction cost is $30

53:19million.

53:21This is a site plan showing the county

53:24zoning of the area. The subject property

53:27is identified with a white a red

53:30outline. It is currently zoned RA1 acre

53:35which is the mustard colored and open

53:38zoning which is the green colored. Other

53:42surrounding zonings uh include open the

53:45dark green

53:47uh color. uh agricultural 5 acres which

53:51is the light green uh to the right of

53:54the screen and Waloa village which

53:57includes um some pink uh colors which

54:02include uh village commercial zoning uh

54:05some uh red coloring which identifies RM

54:10zoning and purple which identifies MCX

54:14zoning. This is our state land use uh

54:18district boundary map identifies the

54:21subject property in the agricultural

54:24district. The pink is outside of this

54:29project site is identified as urban. And

54:33this is our

54:35uh

54:3820

54:40uh 2005 general loop general plan loop

54:44map which identifies the area as meeting

54:48the same zoning our rural and open

54:53zoning. The 2045 brought it to extensive

54:59agricultural the green uh as well as

55:03medium density urban with a small

55:06portion of light industrial and again

55:09the subject property is identified with

55:11a red outline.

55:14This is the South Kohala

55:17uh CDP map and it identifies the project

55:20area uh identified as uh the proposed

55:25development back then.

55:27This is the Walawoa green conceptual

55:30master plan uh which identifies uh the

55:34layout of the lots as well as the uh

55:37multifamily

55:39uh proposed units uh along Pua Malia

55:43Street.

55:46This is a um conceptual plan of the

55:50RM1.5

55:53and 400 multifamily dwellings.

55:56And this is an aerial photo identifying

56:00the subject property in a red outline

56:03currently vacant

56:05and the surrounding land uses.

56:09These are some

56:11uh identified uh site photos. A view of

56:16the Makai access from Walawoa road and

56:21then a view of the Mala access from

56:23Waloa road to the upper right and on the

56:27lower left is a view of access from Pua

56:31Malia.

56:33These are additional site photos. Uh I

56:37won't go into too much detail. um it

56:40identifies the um different areas along

56:44the project site.

56:49At its June 18th, 2026 meeting, the

56:53Leeward Planning Commission voted to

56:56forward a favorable recommendation on

56:59the state land use boundary amendment

57:01application to the county council based

57:04on the planning director's

57:05recommendation.

57:07They also voted to forward a favorable

57:10recommendation on the change of zone

57:12application to the county council based

57:15on the planning director's

57:17recommendation with the following

57:19amendments. Correct a clerical oversight

57:22by properly lettering condition Y, the

57:26annual progress report, and relettered

57:29the remaining condition. Amend condition

57:32Y to add a requirement that the

57:35applicant provide updates on their

57:37efforts to address wildfire evacuation

57:40from the property.

57:43This concludes our presentation. Thank

57:45you.

57:46>> Thank you, Director Darl. And now I'll

57:49invite the applicant and their

57:50representatives come up.

57:56>> Please introduce yourself for the

57:57record, too.

58:07Aloha, Chair

58:09Kimbo, uh, Council Cherry Navo, and

58:12council members. My name is John

58:13Yoshimura. I'm one of the partners in

58:16this WoWa green development. And this

58:19is, uh, my partner, Danny Pockin.

58:22>> Introduce yourself.

58:22>> Danny Pin.

58:26>> Press the green button, please. Thank

58:27you.

58:27>> I'm sorry. Hello, everybody. My name is

58:29Danny Popkin and as John said, we've

58:31been working on this project together

58:33for four years.

58:35>> Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity to

58:37discuss our two zoning bills before you

58:40today. In a recent publication, uh my

58:44partner Danny and I were described as a

58:47New Jersey developer and a one-time

58:50Honolulu politician.

58:53I'd like to start by giving you a more

58:55complete description of who we are and

58:58what our dreams are for White Koa Green.

59:02I'd also like to touch on two issues

59:03that are very important to us. Fire

59:05safety and water availability.

59:09I've known Danny Popkin and his family

59:12who kindly took me in for on long

59:15weekends when it was impractical for me

59:17to travel back home to Maui. I've known

59:20him for nearly 50 years.

59:22Danny and I met as s as sophomores at

59:25Georgetown University. One summer, we

59:28drove across the US in an oatsmobile,

59:31ending up in California, where Danny and

59:34I flew to my home in Maui. Danny planned

59:37to stay a couple weeks. He ended up

59:39staying nearly a year. He worked at us

59:42as a bus boy, then a waiter at Tasty

59:44Crust in Wuku,

59:47where they still remember him.

59:50Most recently, I've been employed as a

59:52utility scale renewable energy

59:54consultant for companies like NG, Tesla,

59:58and Plus Power. My projects include the

1:00:02largest solar PV project at that time in

1:00:042013,

1:00:06the first utility solar plus battery

1:00:10system in the world on Kauaii with

1:00:13Kauaii Island Utility Co-op, and

1:00:16Hawaii's first standalone grid forming

1:00:18battery, Capo Energy Storage, which is

1:00:21operating in Capo on Aahu for Hawaii

1:00:25Electric.

1:00:27In 2019, I learned that the Wolo

1:00:29Highlands property was for sale. Three

1:00:32years later, Danny and I bought the

1:00:34property. Other than renewable energy,

1:00:37we had no set plans for what was now

1:00:40Walawa Green. We started an outreach

1:00:43campaign to learn what county leaders,

1:00:46Wawa residents, and other stakeholders

1:00:49believed were needed to complement and

1:00:52enhance the exa uh existing Wawa

1:00:54community.

1:00:56While we continued to do outreach and

1:00:58frankly will never stop, we heard

1:01:00several recurring themes that resulted

1:01:02in our conceptual master plan. Housing,

1:01:06workforce housing, affordable housing,

1:01:08and market housing, food sustainability,

1:01:13a community meeting place.

1:01:16Over time, we developed our general plan

1:01:20which is based on four pillars.

1:01:23housing,

1:01:24renewable energy, food sustainability,

1:01:28and an overall concept of developing

1:01:32this land to provide a Hawaiian sense of

1:01:35place.

1:01:36Now, on the issue of fire, we might not

1:01:39agree with the recommendations of the

1:01:41wildfire safety advocates, but we

1:01:44support their efforts to make WOA safe.

1:01:48I believe the best we can do, the the

1:01:51the greatest impact we can have is to be

1:01:55responsible land owners, responsible

1:01:57stewards of this property.

1:02:00On the issue of fire, you know, we've

1:02:02met with WSA and we've had some very

1:02:06good candid discussions with them. We

1:02:08worked with Hawaiian Electric to harden

1:02:10utility assets on our property. They're

1:02:13in process, I think, of replacing all of

1:02:16those old poles to make them, you know,

1:02:19more sturdy and and wildfire resistant.

1:02:21As you know, you know, one of the

1:02:23problems on in Lahina was utility poles

1:02:26went down and they determined that

1:02:28that's what started the fire.

1:02:30We worked with state DOT to expand and

1:02:34improve firereaks on our property. We

1:02:37worked with the Waloa dry forest

1:02:39initiative to create new firereaks. And

1:02:41we've been told that the fire bricks on

1:02:44our property helped prevent the spread

1:02:46of the most recent brush fire in Waloa.

1:02:50And just after our unanimous approval at

1:02:53the Leeward Planning Commission, we were

1:02:54happy to hear of a breakthrough allowing

1:02:57development of the Kamakoa egress toward

1:03:01completion.

1:03:03Regarding water availability

1:03:05availability, we can appreciate that

1:03:07concern.

1:03:09We believe we have access to sufficient

1:03:11water resources and I must stress that

1:03:14our development is phased. We're not

1:03:17going to have all of these people and

1:03:19homes there on day one, day two, even

1:03:21year five. Uh it's a it's a phase

1:03:24development that's going to take 20,

1:03:27maybe more than 20 years. Hopefully

1:03:29we'll still be around.

1:03:32I think that the um argument that our

1:03:37project will irreparably stress the

1:03:40aquifer is not accurate and we can

1:03:43discuss that

1:03:46at at length later today. We have

1:03:48several people who can address that

1:03:49issue.

1:03:51You know, at this time I'd like to turn

1:03:52it over to Danny for for some of his

1:03:54opening comments.

1:03:56>> Thank you, John, and thank you, council,

1:03:58for having us here today. My name is

1:04:00Danny Popkin. I'm from New Jersey. I had

1:04:02the pleasure of living with John

1:04:04Yoshimore's family on Maui for almost a

1:04:06year and gained a great respect for

1:04:09Hawaii and the people and the culture.

1:04:13And I sit here today humbly trying my

1:04:16best to be a good partner with John to

1:04:18develop this land in a proper way. Um

1:04:22what I've done at home for the last 30

1:04:25plus years, maybe longer, uh is

1:04:28sustainable adaptive reuse of uh factory

1:04:32buildings in New Jersey, which we have a

1:04:34lot of. So, uh, over years I bought

1:04:37large factory buildings that had no

1:04:40workers in them anymore, a lot of

1:04:42pigeons and problems, and over time

1:04:45developed these buildings into

1:04:46multi-tenant commercial buildings that

1:04:49I, I'm proud to say, created a lot of

1:04:51new small businesses and thousands of

1:04:54jobs over the years. And that's what

1:04:56I've done myself. I'm not a land

1:04:58developer uh, per se. I've done some new

1:05:01construction, but uh what I've done is

1:05:03that sustainable adaptive reuse. I've

1:05:05also done a lot of renewable energy. All

1:05:07of our roofs in our buildings in New

1:05:09Jersey are totally uh powered by solar.

1:05:12So, when John called me a while ago and

1:05:14talked about this white koala land, I

1:05:15was very excited about it, excited to

1:05:17work with my longtime great friend to

1:05:20try and bring something that is special

1:05:22to this community. Um and we're here

1:05:25today to answer any questions and thank

1:05:28you for your time. We think it's a great

1:05:29project and hope that we get approval

1:05:31today.

1:05:35>> All right, with that we'll open it up to

1:05:37the body. Any questions, comments?

1:05:40Starting with Council Member Hustes.

1:05:42>> All right, I guess I'll start us off

1:05:44here. Um, thank you, Mr. Popkin, Mr.

1:05:46Yoshimura. appreciate your presentation

1:05:48in front of us and your team behind as

1:05:50well. um engaging with the community

1:05:52here and trying to find solutions um for

1:05:56a community that is at risk as you know

1:05:57as you all know um and some of the stuff

1:06:00we can get into the other bill which I

1:06:03chair once again I'll issue that I have

1:06:05concerns about the order we kind of go

1:06:07through stuff here so it's hard to talk

1:06:08about amendments and those sort of

1:06:10things for our secondary bill but um

1:06:13wanted to since there we read them in

1:06:15together I just wanted to kind of dive

1:06:17into the question about water a little

1:06:19bit if that's today because there was an

1:06:21Environment Hawaii article that was

1:06:22published in the last couple of days

1:06:25too. Um, and there was a testifier that

1:06:27talked about water. So, if we could uh

1:06:30go into that just a little bit in terms

1:06:32of

1:06:33uh your relationship with um Hawaii

1:06:36Water Service um and their commitment to

1:06:38the community in the area and your

1:06:40understanding of their capacity um and

1:06:43their system as well as the investments

1:06:45that they make. So, if we just want to

1:06:47start there for a moment, then I'll

1:06:48follow up with another question.

1:06:51>> John, if you could turn your mic on

1:06:53there. Thank you.

1:06:53>> We rely on their expertise, and when we

1:06:56were um you just beginning to talk about

1:06:58what we could do with this property,

1:07:00that was one of the first um

1:07:02organizations that we contacted um and

1:07:05and we wanted to make sure that, you

1:07:08know, any kind of uh plans or ideas were

1:07:11going to be possible. And of course,

1:07:13that all depended on water. Um we have a

1:07:17couple of people on our team who are are

1:07:18very well-versed in these water issues.

1:07:21Uh of course our our planner John Pippen

1:07:24and uh Kanani Atan who um you know

1:07:28previously has worked for the board of

1:07:30water supply here in the county. And um

1:07:34while that article was very complete,

1:07:36there were some assumptions made that

1:07:39were not necessarily tied to um

1:07:45I think there's some some sort of

1:07:47discrepancy between, you know, what

1:07:50aquafer we're talking about and and um

1:07:54you know, they can talk about it a lot

1:07:56better than I can. Um but uh you know we

1:08:00really feel that because our development

1:08:02is a phase development um and because we

1:08:06have the only thing we can rely on

1:08:08really is the water company telling us

1:08:10that they have sufficient water to

1:08:12service us. Uh you know we we feel that

1:08:15um we feel that we we we have sufficient

1:08:19water to build out our project over 20

1:08:22years.

1:08:23>> Thank you. Mhm. if you wanted to you

1:08:25wanted to pass it off to your team to

1:08:26kind of speak a little bit more to that

1:08:27then.

1:08:35>> Aloha, Council Member Huis, thank you

1:08:37for the question. Uh John Pippen again

1:08:39here uh again helping Waloa Green with

1:08:42their application. Um we we did receive

1:08:46review uh this recent article by Miss

1:08:49Tummen's Environment Hawaii. um we we

1:08:53think there are some flawed assumptions,

1:08:56right? So it it refers to the commission

1:08:59of uh water resource management's 2019

1:09:02study, their plan um that states two

1:09:06different figures in two different

1:09:08places for the sustainable yield for the

1:09:10YA aquapur which uh Hawaii water service

1:09:13would draw the portable water to serve

1:09:16this project. Uh in some places it's 16

1:09:19million gallons per day and other places

1:09:21it's 24 million gallons per day. Um

1:09:24there was pretty robust discussion when

1:09:28Seaworm was putting forward this plan

1:09:31and these numbers for Yale. Um experts

1:09:35including Tom Nance testified that it

1:09:37was it was an under uh under quoting of

1:09:40the sustain sustainable yield of this

1:09:43aquifer. um that potentially 10 million

1:09:46gallons from Kohala wasn't accounted for

1:09:49per day. Um, additionally,

1:09:51>> that's a surface water primarily.

1:09:53Correct.

1:09:55>> I'm I'm not sure exactly if that was

1:09:58just counting the surface water that's

1:10:00captured from say Walo stream above.

1:10:04>> Um, but furthermore, the aquafers aren't

1:10:09necessarily

1:10:11uh exactly like they're drawn on the

1:10:13map. It's a it's a oversimplification.

1:10:15>> Those lines don't exist underground.

1:10:16>> Those lines don't exist underground. So

1:10:19just u to the south of this property

1:10:22lies the anhole aquifer and it has a

1:10:25much larger sustainable yield, something

1:10:27like 30 million gallons per day that's

1:10:29uh barely even tapped. Um and some

1:10:32studies, isotope studies have indicated

1:10:35that these aquifers are actually mixed.

1:10:38So they're not they're not segregated.

1:10:40They're not separate. um commission of

1:10:43water resource management and our state

1:10:46laws establish a process for which

1:10:50seaworm can designate an aquifer um as

1:10:55you know a critical water source that

1:10:57hasn't occurred here. There is a

1:11:00process. Um no one has sub submitted a

1:11:03petition. Um,

1:11:06we believe that should should that

1:11:08happen in the future, they would

1:11:10evaluate much more thoroughly and

1:11:12scientifically

1:11:13this actual sustainable yield of this

1:11:16aquifer and find that it's not not

1:11:18nearly as uh closely to its not nearly

1:11:23as close to its max sustainable yield as

1:11:26uh as she as Miss Thomas contends. Um,

1:11:31with that I I think I'll pass the paton

1:11:33to Miss Atan, which has she has much

1:11:36more experience in this in this realm

1:11:38than I do too.

1:11:40>> I mean, um, aloha mako, aloha chair

1:11:42Kimble, and everybody here. Um, I worked

1:11:45for Department of Water Supply right

1:11:47under the manager, chief engineer,

1:11:49Milton Pavao, and then his deputy,

1:11:51Kirino Antonio. Um and so he took me to

1:11:56every single cabinet meeting, every

1:11:58single community meeting that um talked

1:12:02about the water use and development plan

1:12:04as well as the business plan for the

1:12:06department of water supply because those

1:12:08um the business plan was part of my kana

1:12:11as public information and education

1:12:13specialist for the department. also ran

1:12:16the Kona water roundt for the potential

1:12:19designation of a nearby aquifer, Kaho

1:12:22aquifer and um we went through a

1:12:25community process in Kona that really

1:12:29looked at the claims of the national

1:12:31park

1:12:33um about the impact of and asking for a

1:12:37moratorium on well development. So I

1:12:40really came into a quarterly gathering

1:12:43of about a hundred stakeholders who um

1:12:47were all looking at water sustainable

1:12:50yield understanding that process um and

1:12:54so what I came away from understanding

1:12:56that is sustainable yield is based on a

1:13:00engineers calculation that's across all

1:13:04engineering and hydraology

1:13:06for Hawaii for our style our land

1:13:12formation.

1:13:13It's really hard to apply

1:13:18um textbook hydraology to um Havi's

1:13:24landscape. What I understand from Tom

1:13:26Nance and many of the other experts that

1:13:28presented over many years time, this

1:13:31question of what is sustainable yield,

1:13:34especially in these flagged aquifers, is

1:13:36that we have lava flow over lava flow

1:13:39from the different Mona and they overlap

1:13:42at times and when the water falls on

1:13:45different peaks and valleys and points.

1:13:48Um, what the water percolating down you

1:13:51might see an isotopic signature like you

1:13:53were talking

1:13:55that from a very high elevation like

1:13:57Monaca, Monaloa, Kohala, you might see

1:14:00actually those signatures in places that

1:14:02we actually from standard engineering

1:14:06um calculations not supposed to have

1:14:08water from

1:14:09>> from the summit of Mount Aaya. It should

1:14:12be within this peak and valley sort of

1:14:15structure. So that was a lot of the

1:14:17community discussion around how do we

1:14:19steward water well. And so not to make

1:14:22my story long, but just that um

1:14:28you know we we have a robust community

1:14:32of people like our testifiers, like

1:14:35those that are concerned, but we also as

1:14:37a community know how to collaborate and

1:14:39talk through those issues. Um it was a

1:14:43process of over five or six years with

1:14:45the commission on water resource

1:14:46management around the request for

1:14:49designation and in the end the aquafer

1:14:52of Koho was not designated because of

1:14:55this robust community of of stewardship

1:14:58and management. Now when it comes to

1:15:00what's happening in the water use and

1:15:02development plan for this particular

1:15:04aquifer and the one that's adjacent

1:15:07where we talk about millions of gallons

1:15:09per day of sustainable yield um one of

1:15:13the biggest things that I learned from

1:15:14Milton Paval my manager chief engineer

1:15:16was Kanani

1:15:18the sustainable yield is one portion of

1:15:21the entire aquifer the remainder of the

1:15:25aquifer outside of sustainable yield is

1:15:27where the general al flow of what what

1:15:31the environment needs to do for all of

1:15:35the land, all of the limu, all of the

1:15:37animals, all of the the the uphold of

1:15:40this aquifer itself. That's not the

1:15:42sustainable yield. The sustainable yield

1:15:44is a portion for human use of drinking

1:15:49water. And um that's what seaworm does

1:15:52is watch over that section.

1:15:55So um when we talk about this particular

1:15:59parcel, it's my understanding that it

1:16:01actually straddles the border

1:16:03>> of two aquifers.

1:16:05>> And if I'm not mistaken, Hawaii water

1:16:06service

1:16:08primarily draws from the wi aquifer, but

1:16:10I thought they also had wells in the

1:16:11Niho Malu aquifer as well. Is that am I

1:16:13mistaken in that?

1:16:15>> Sorry, Mr. Pippener.

1:16:17>> Yeah, I cannot confirm if if they do

1:16:19actually have wells.

1:16:20>> They are the service provider for that

1:16:22whole region though.

1:16:22>> Correct. Correct. Yeah. Okay.

1:16:25>> And some numbers on Hawaii water service

1:16:28capacity. I think you had uh asked about

1:16:30this in your initial question. They have

1:16:32their installed capacity permitted 11.4

1:16:36million gallons per day pumpage. Their

1:16:38firm capacity would be if two of those

1:16:41wells were out of service uh 8.3 million

1:16:44gallons per day. And present demand in

1:16:47the Hawaii water service uh system 5 to

1:16:50six million gallons per day.

1:16:52Um so so that that is their figures

1:16:55currently and again I'll I'll reiterate

1:16:58that that 16 million gallons per day

1:17:01sustainable yield of the Himea aquifer

1:17:04was noted in Seaworm's plan as

1:17:07preliminary until further notice.

1:17:10I I have enjoyed my conversation with

1:17:11Hawaii water service in terms of you

1:17:13know private private water structure but

1:17:15they make um you know clear investments

1:17:18in their systems to upkeep for the

1:17:20community and those sort of things. So

1:17:22they have been a good partner for the

1:17:23white colo uh community there. Um, so

1:17:26thank you for diving into water just a

1:17:27little bit. I know probably my

1:17:28colleagues have some questions on that

1:17:29as well, but I just wanted to pivot a

1:17:32little bit to um community engagement,

1:17:36community benefits,

1:17:38uh, community partnership because you

1:17:40have built a relationship um, with

1:17:42community members and conversations

1:17:44about wildfire mitigation, but also in

1:17:46terms of identifying needs in the

1:17:48community, uh, community spaces,

1:17:50community parks, community trails, and

1:17:52this partnership with Wolo Dryland

1:17:54Forest. if you could expand upon that a

1:17:57little bit in terms of what that

1:17:58relationship looks like not just with

1:18:00WDFI wo force initiative but also the

1:18:03community at large and what that means

1:18:05going forward too.

1:18:08>> Yeah, thank you. big big question there.

1:18:09But it kind of as a as a larger

1:18:12development proposed development trying

1:18:15to find, you know, you're trying to

1:18:16build these relationships, but uh

1:18:18identify the needs in the area and how

1:18:22how the larger community can can be a

1:18:24partner and benefit and grow together.

1:18:26>> Yeah.

1:18:26>> So, um you know, I'm going to ask

1:18:29>> Yeah. I'm gonna ask Danny to talk about

1:18:31our um work with the Waloa dry forest

1:18:34initiative. But um you know in our early

1:18:37outreach

1:18:38we thought the best organization to go

1:18:41talk to is the Wolo Village Association.

1:18:44So we attended many of their meetings.

1:18:46We um you know went and talked with the

1:18:49former I guess now uh general manager

1:18:52Roger Worshig and and he had some great

1:18:56ideas some great history you know he

1:18:59said when woa itself was developed back

1:19:02in the 60s and 70s by Boise Cascade you

1:19:05know that was prior to the time when you

1:19:08developed communities he said it was

1:19:10more like developing homes so he said

1:19:13one of the things we miss is like a

1:19:15community

1:19:16like uh you when people want to have

1:19:18weddings or graduation parties, a lot of

1:19:20times they're either going to have to go

1:19:21down to the hotels or they're going to

1:19:23have to you know go to somebody's garage

1:19:26and and you know like maybe get a couple

1:19:28homes so that they can accommodate all

1:19:30the people. So he said, "Hey, you know,

1:19:32we need a community meeting place." So

1:19:34that was one of the things we checked

1:19:35off and and looked at. Um when we talked

1:19:38to one of your predecessors um Senator

1:19:41Richards

1:19:43um you know he was telling us uh

1:19:47that

1:19:49you know in addition to to this

1:19:52community kind of thing there there was

1:19:53like um a need for a library. you know,

1:19:57there may be needs for for schools,

1:20:00maybe a high school because like, you

1:20:02know, um like kids in Waloa got to

1:20:05travel like an hour to go to high

1:20:07school, right?

1:20:08>> So, we took all of those things in and

1:20:10and in our in our um approval at the

1:20:14Leeward Planning Commission, I think

1:20:15they required us to to have a property

1:20:19like five acres that uh we would deed to

1:20:22the county at the upper part of our

1:20:24parcel. uh which you know could be used

1:20:27for um emergency

1:20:30um

1:20:32like you know like like like a like a

1:20:34place for people to to to to stay if

1:20:37there's like you know like uh some kind

1:20:39of emergency that they needed a shelter

1:20:42emergency shelter uh you know there's

1:20:44possibility I know that uh I've heard

1:20:46that uh you're looking into possibility

1:20:49of a gym in W Koa yes um you know I mean

1:20:52maybe maybe those two could kind of come

1:20:53together and serve the same purpose. So,

1:20:56you know, we um are very interested

1:20:59again in in having this development

1:21:03um complement and enhance

1:21:07the community that's already there. And

1:21:09that really was kind of uh you know, one

1:21:12of one of the guiding missions that we

1:21:14had. You know, if we're going to do

1:21:16something over here, let's ask the

1:21:17community to find out what it is that

1:21:19they need. and you know very possibly we

1:21:22could help out um either by making land

1:21:25available or you know some some other

1:21:28way. So anyway and Danny can talk to you

1:21:31he's worked really closely with Walo Dry

1:21:33Forest Initiative um for some time now.

1:21:37We've actually uh given them a

1:21:39conservation easement to solidify that

1:21:42commitment. And Danny, why don't you?

1:21:46>> Um, yeah, we we partnered with Waloa Dry

1:21:49Forest Initiative to take 111 of our

1:21:51acres and preserve them as a

1:21:54conservation easement. And Jen Lawson,

1:21:56who I'm sure you know, the executive

1:21:57director, is very excited to uh steward

1:22:01this land, plant droughtresistant, fire

1:22:05resistant, native plants in it. So, it

1:22:08uh preserves it. And also it's part of

1:22:10our trails plan where we'll have the

1:22:12ability to have people walk through it,

1:22:14hike, and it does connect up to what

1:22:17John talked about. We designated a 5

1:22:19acre, excuse me, 5 acre um parcel close

1:22:23to White Kaloa Road, which hopefully

1:22:24could be a community center, evacuation

1:22:26center, uh something that the county may

1:22:29designate based on that 5 acres. So,

1:22:31we're very careful to put it in a place

1:22:33where we think it would be a big benefit

1:22:34for the community.

1:22:36>> Thank you. I appreciate that response

1:22:37and trying to build relationship with

1:22:39community that's there and really

1:22:41understand the needs in the area. Um

1:22:44I'll I'll leave it there for right now.

1:22:45I may have another question or two, but

1:22:46I'd like to hear from my colleagues if

1:22:48they have any thoughts. Thank you.

1:22:49Thanks, Chair.

1:22:52>> Thank you, Council Member Eustace,

1:22:53Council Member Kagi. Thank you, chair.

1:22:56Thank you um for bringing this project

1:22:58forward. It does sound like there's a a

1:23:00lot of really fabulous pieces here. Um I

1:23:03do want to go back to the water issue. I

1:23:05did read the article by Pat Tums um in

1:23:09Environment Hawaii and um based on what

1:23:13I've heard today

1:23:15um what you seem to be saying as a team

1:23:19is

1:23:21yes, a lot of what she said was true,

1:23:24but maybe some of the assumptions

1:23:26weren't 100%

1:23:29uh for sure. Like there seem to be some

1:23:31questions still like this whole issue of

1:23:34a 16 million a 16 million gallon per day

1:23:39yield or 24 you know that kind of thing.

1:23:43But you don't know for sure that that's

1:23:47true either. The higher amount is true

1:23:49either it sounds like. So

1:23:52um it could be true. You're not debating

1:23:55that it it definitely isn't true. what

1:23:58she's presented here. Is that correct?

1:24:01>> You know, as

1:24:03as you know, kind of it's a little still

1:24:07foreign to me. I talked about myself as

1:24:09a developer, but as a developer, you

1:24:12know, um you know, we go through the na

1:24:16n natural process, right? So before we

1:24:20even thought about having homes on our

1:24:22site, you we got to find out whether we

1:24:24had water to to to, you know, service

1:24:27those homes. So one of the first things

1:24:29we did was,

1:24:32you know, uh write to the white uh

1:24:34Hawaii water service, tell them what we

1:24:36had planned or or what we would hope to

1:24:39plan, you know, and and get a will serve

1:24:42letter from them. and you know as as I

1:24:47mean that's that that we thought okay

1:24:49satisfied our requirement right but

1:24:52obviously you know there's other things

1:24:54involved with um water usage and yields

1:24:58and all of this kind of stuff right um

1:25:03but I I mean I think that's that was

1:25:05sort of outside of our

1:25:08>> yes

1:25:08>> um I don't want to say responsibility

1:25:11but you know it was not something that

1:25:12we thought oh Okay, we got to go and do

1:25:14a deep dive into the hydraulics and all

1:25:16of this kind of stuff. So,

1:25:18>> understood. And

1:25:18>> it sort of brought, you know, took us a

1:25:20little bit by surprise.

1:25:21>> Yeah, sure. Totally understood. You you

1:25:23followed the process. You got the okay

1:25:25on this. Um, like you said, it's not

1:25:28your But as far as us now, it's our job

1:25:31to question some of these things. So,

1:25:33that's what we're doing. Um, you I am

1:25:36not at all questioning the process you

1:25:37went through or that you didn't follow

1:25:39it correctly. I'm I'm just um looking at

1:25:42what could be either reaching the you

1:25:47know sustainable um daily amounts for

1:25:51this aquifer potentially and what that

1:25:54means for you know other development in

1:25:56the area that that might already be um

1:25:59planned or they aren't planned yet but

1:26:02they may want to do. Um and if you kind

1:26:05of top it out with this project,

1:26:08it doesn't mean that we say no, but we

1:26:10are thoughtful about it. We say okay,

1:26:12this is the project that should go

1:26:13forward for this amount of water and

1:26:16knowing very well that yeah, then there

1:26:18may not be water for other things.

1:26:20>> So we need to understand that as we we

1:26:22go forward.

1:26:23>> You know, interestingly enough,

1:26:25Kamani Atan isn't the only person who

1:26:27has worked for Border Water Supply. I

1:26:29actually work for Border Water Supply on

1:26:31Aahu as well. And prior to the time

1:26:35working there, you know, I I I I was a

1:26:37journalist for a little while. And so I

1:26:39did have an opportunity to, you know,

1:26:42interview all kinds of people. One of

1:26:43the people I remember talking to was

1:26:45Kazu Hayashida, who, you know, held

1:26:48other um uh, you know, offices,

1:26:52directorships in the state and in the

1:26:54county of Honolulu. and and you know

1:26:57there was a there was a um question as

1:27:00to hey how how many more homes can you

1:27:03develop on Aahu right so you know one of

1:27:06my questions to him as as a reporter at

1:27:09the time was hey you know um people are

1:27:13saying we don't have have enough water

1:27:15to support these new developments he

1:27:17told me you know John

1:27:19water

1:27:22we take the cheapest water available

1:27:25Okay, if we need more water and we need

1:27:28to look at things like del or reverse

1:27:31osmosis or what have you, right? Then

1:27:34the water gets a little bit more

1:27:35expensive. He said the water is there.

1:27:39It's just, you know, right now everybody

1:27:42uses the cheapest water available.

1:27:44That's why they just take it out of the

1:27:45aquifer. So I I think the lesson that I

1:27:48learned at that time was

1:27:52you know water is a very precious

1:27:53resource and we need to be very careful.

1:27:56I mean one of the big things that we did

1:27:58at the Honolulu border water supply was

1:28:00you know we had this this big

1:28:02conservation effort you know we had

1:28:04zeros escape gardens that we promoted.

1:28:06we had, you know, um, you know, stop

1:28:08leaks and all all that kind of stuff,

1:28:10right? But, um, I think the thing that I

1:28:13I re I learned was that, um, you know,

1:28:18water is available. It's just at what

1:28:22cost?

1:28:23>> You can get it. You can you can get

1:28:26portable water, but it's just a matter

1:28:28of, you know, if it's if it's how much

1:28:31are you going to have to pay for it,

1:28:32what's available. Okay. And

1:28:35>> I think one of the things

1:28:37>> I'm sorry. One other thing to add is

1:28:38that our project

1:28:40>> part of the report or the article from

1:28:42this morning was that you know it's as

1:28:44if it's going to happen on day one and

1:28:46it's not it's taking many years for us

1:28:48to develop this. So if that happens 5 10

1:28:5220 years from now where that where water

1:28:54becomes more critical then Seawwarm who

1:28:58gave the authorization for HWS to give

1:29:01us the will serve better way we'll have

1:29:03to start to look into those different

1:29:04alternatives including conservation gray

1:29:06water all all the kinds of things or

1:29:08tapping another aquifer we understand

1:29:11that that certainly could be something

1:29:12that happens one day but it certainly

1:29:15it's not going to happen with our

1:29:16numbers

1:29:17>> yeah we will We would hope that uh the

1:29:20water service would be proactive,

1:29:23>> you know, in uh in looking to see what's

1:29:25what's happening, what what kind of

1:29:27needs are are either increasing,

1:29:30decreasing, staying the same, or what

1:29:31have you. And then plan for the future

1:29:33because really um I mean that's kind of

1:29:37their responsibility, you know.

1:29:38>> Okay. And then just my last question on

1:29:41this is just um I know you have the

1:29:431acre uh a lots and the 10acre ad lots

1:29:47also planned. Do you when you factored

1:29:50in the water was it to do like actual

1:29:53like real a for those for all those lots

1:29:56or uh what was the water request for

1:30:00those parcels?

1:30:02You know, I I don't even know if we um

1:30:07>> did we request water for those sites as

1:30:09well? Yeah. Okay. You know, um I I'll

1:30:13toss it to them, but a lot of those um

1:30:16A10 lots,

1:30:18>> you know, some of that some of that

1:30:20property is is like for renewable

1:30:23energy, so solar. So, um, you know, it's

1:30:27not necessarily a a water something

1:30:31that's going to need water.

1:30:32>> Okay.

1:30:33>> Yeah. So, but anyway, John.

1:30:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, uh, Council

1:30:36Member Kagui for your question. Hawaii

1:30:39Water Service, uh, took a look at this.

1:30:41They came up with their own demand

1:30:43estimates for the land uses that we're

1:30:46requesting. Um, they took a very

1:30:49conservative look at their estimates. Um

1:30:52and they did count on the 10acre a lot,

1:30:5526 of them. Um multiple units per lot.

1:31:00And the total just for the 10 acre

1:31:02pieces is over 780,000 gallons per day,

1:31:08which is the vast majority of the entire

1:31:11uh project's water demand.

1:31:13>> Okay.

1:31:14I just wanted to check on that because

1:31:16yeah, I didn't know if they had been

1:31:18thinking there would be a lot of like

1:31:20single gentleman farmers on 10 acres not

1:31:23really needing much or if they had

1:31:26really looked at what the bigger

1:31:28possibilities are.

1:31:29>> Yeah, they they took a very conservative

1:31:31look for the sizing of their system to

1:31:33ensure that they can supply in worst

1:31:35case scenarios.

1:31:36>> Okay, great. Thank you so much. Um I'm

1:31:38gonna let my other colleagues uh jump in

1:31:40here, but thanks for answering my

1:31:42questions.

1:31:44Great to council member Viegas.

1:31:46>> Sure. Thank you. I want to start by

1:31:48saying thank you for meeting with me

1:31:49before this and um for the extra time

1:31:53and attention you have paid to meeting

1:31:56with community, talking to different

1:31:58organizations that are already uh very

1:32:01involved in the Waloa area. all I think

1:32:06right steps to take as a developer

1:32:08coming in um especially with a

1:32:11development of this size and magnitude

1:32:13and impact as one of the testifiers

1:32:16mentioned the potential to increase the

1:32:18population by 30% in Waloa

1:32:22um I also want to thank the testifier

1:32:25who came forward and talked about water

1:32:28um I myself am still very frustrated and

1:32:32disappoint disappointed

1:32:34um in perhaps its lack of funding. Uh I

1:32:38am being told that the department of

1:32:40water supply is coming into the 21st

1:32:42century when it comes to having uh

1:32:45scientifically accurate uh datadriven

1:32:49um technology

1:32:52forward authenticly

1:32:55accurate

1:32:57numbers on what the water is here. Um, I

1:33:02remain disappointed. I don't remember if

1:33:04it was in my first or second term that

1:33:06we had them here and we asked questions.

1:33:09We still don't have a water use

1:33:11development plan. One of the holds up

1:33:13there relates to uh impacts of aquafer

1:33:19uh tapping into aquafers and the way

1:33:22that that impacts our cultural

1:33:24practitioners and cultural sites those

1:33:28including ankaline ponds. So I'll humbly

1:33:32and honestly tell you that any concept

1:33:34of now tapping into the Anahou

1:33:37aquifer

1:33:39throws up a red flag for me. That area

1:33:42of the coastline is blessed with

1:33:44hundreds of ankaline ponds and

1:33:47ecosystems that are already inundated

1:33:50with stressors related to climate

1:33:52change, sea level rise, uh human

1:33:55impacts. Um so I I have, you know, water

1:34:00is is going to be

1:34:03the tipping point for me here. Um, I

1:34:07highly respect the uh testifier that

1:34:11came in and spoke about the aquafers and

1:34:15his vast knowledge uh cultural

1:34:18historical

1:34:21on the resources on this island. And um

1:34:25while talking about Aahu,

1:34:27glad you had that experience. Quite

1:34:30frankly, they get an F because nobody

1:34:32listened to the head of their water

1:34:34supply when he was saying the Navy was

1:34:36poisoning their aquifers. So maybe at

1:34:39one point they had enough water, but now

1:34:42they're in dire straits and they're

1:34:44being left with the price tag because

1:34:47the US military is not stepping up,

1:34:50leaning in, and paying not only the

1:34:52people but the cleanup. Um, I have

1:34:57serious concerns about our water here

1:35:00and everybody scrambling to get it, to

1:35:02secure it. Um, you can't live without

1:35:05it. It is identified as a resource

1:35:10protected by our constitution for

1:35:13everyone.

1:35:15Um, it also concerns me and I appreciate

1:35:18your honesty. Sure, if you got millions

1:35:21or billions, you can make water out of

1:35:23seawater,

1:35:25you can do all kinds of things. But the

1:35:28people in my district that just didn't

1:35:30even have water because our electricity

1:35:33was down and that runs our pumps.

1:35:37A woman friend of mine had just had a

1:35:39C-section. 9-year-old baby, I'm sorry,

1:35:429-day old baby. And she could do 5 days

1:35:45without electricity cuz she knows how to

1:35:47camp. But once there's no water, she's

1:35:50like, I can't, you know, she had to go

1:35:52stay with family. So these are really

1:35:55poignant issues to this place. And as we

1:35:58are looking at another right now, it's a

1:36:04for the hurricane

1:36:06headed in and we still don't know the

1:36:09potential of what's coming our way. So

1:36:12these are the reasons. I I know you're

1:36:14saying this is 20 years out. this is

1:36:17what not but I'm trying to hold myself

1:36:20personally accountable for the decisions

1:36:22we're making here affect

1:36:26and I feel responsible for seven

1:36:29generations out right and how that

1:36:33changes the footprint in W Koa so um I'm

1:36:38not sure where this is going to go I you

1:36:40know I do try to honor the council

1:36:42members and their districts but there

1:36:44are serious concerns about fire. I

1:36:47appreciate the statistics that was

1:36:49brought forward and the amount of time

1:36:50for the Lahina fire and how it spread in

1:36:53that small space and that being the

1:36:57whole space of Waloa village. Um, so

1:37:03we're in a we're in a quandry here and a

1:37:07tipping point. As much as we need

1:37:09housing, this is a massive project. So

1:37:12I'll yield at this time. just wanted to

1:37:14honestly share my concerns.

1:37:16>> Can can I address?

1:37:17>> Yes, you may.

1:37:17>> Council member Council member, thank

1:37:19you. Um, you know, those are very very

1:37:22important issues to us as well. Um and

1:37:27you know we want to be part of the

1:37:29solution which is why um you know a

1:37:34immediately after the leeward planning

1:37:37commission we went and sought out the

1:37:40WSA

1:37:42and and we said hey you know

1:37:46we agree with you. We know you oppose

1:37:49our project but we agree with you. How

1:37:52can we help? So, we met a week after

1:37:56that. They were great. They gave us a a

1:37:59terrific tour. You know, we talked a

1:38:02little bit about, you know, what we

1:38:04could do. Um,

1:38:07and although we haven't really talked

1:38:10much since, um, you know, that line of

1:38:13communication is still open and there's

1:38:14some goodwill between us. So, you know,

1:38:19if if if I think that's where it begins,

1:38:22you know, if um

1:38:24If there is a way we can be part of the

1:38:26solution, we definitely want to do that.

1:38:29Um, water as well. I mean, um, and and

1:38:33and I really like what you said about

1:38:36you're responsible for seven generations

1:38:38out. I never really thought of things

1:38:39that way and that that's really cool. I

1:38:42I like that. Um,

1:38:47you know, this this water issue is is

1:38:50for me a a little uh complex and

1:38:55technical. Uh, we rely on our experts

1:38:59and um, you know, I I I just wanted to

1:39:03say that I can appreciate what what you

1:39:05just said.

1:39:09>> Sure.

1:39:15So

1:39:16um in the discussions of the Kaho

1:39:20aquifer

1:39:22um what we learned was when we went down

1:39:25to the national park and helped to

1:39:29steward the lands by cleaning up,

1:39:31pulling weeds, um talking about how can

1:39:35we collaborate around best practices

1:39:39um of stewardship of of our resource. Uh

1:39:42we learned a lot in the discussion as we

1:39:45we labored together both the mayor's

1:39:48cabinet um seaworm came along. We

1:39:51invited them to come community members

1:39:54as well as we made sure that we were

1:39:55with the leaders of the national park

1:39:58and what we learned together was that

1:40:00national park could do some of their own

1:40:02stuff better. We as a community could

1:40:05also voice our understandings as well as

1:40:10ask practitioners you know where is your

1:40:13role in this um and the cultural role

1:40:16too. So there was just a lot of more

1:40:18enriched conversation that came of that

1:40:21when we look at this particular issue

1:40:23today that was just raised in the

1:40:25article.

1:40:26Um, when I was working with water

1:40:30supply, what we learned was that

1:40:32portable drinking water is a really

1:40:35specialized engineered product.

1:40:39E water is something that does not need

1:40:43a high that high level of engineering. I

1:40:47was talking with John Pippen saying, you

1:40:51know, the problem solving around these

1:40:54concerns

1:40:55means that we look at where those

1:40:58boundaries are of the of the aquifer.

1:41:02If there is a 24 million gallon per day

1:41:06boundary that our our property sits on

1:41:09on this side, could we do an egg well

1:41:13that could take the overall

1:41:16um 1.29 million gallons per day and say

1:41:21the drinking water would come from our

1:41:23drinking water purveyor of why water

1:41:26associates or whatever the pervying

1:41:27company is and the egg waters from a

1:41:32different aquifer but for very important

1:41:34use of food sustainability, the food

1:41:36hub, the community gardens, the all the

1:41:40efforts with the wild for wild um the

1:41:43forest initiative etc. But we be more

1:41:46aamite more in more intentional

1:41:50in where is our drinking water under

1:41:53domestic use or under roof and where are

1:41:56these egg waters coming and what kind of

1:41:58plants and or sustainable efforts can we

1:42:01be making in conservation campaigns

1:42:04educational campaigns in collaboration

1:42:06and understanding with the latest

1:42:08numbers no matter what the numbers are

1:42:10questions what do we have on the books

1:42:13um I think It's these richer

1:42:15conversations that come from a a

1:42:18stewardship mindset

1:42:20um embedded in the the way that we've

1:42:23always looked at our resources as

1:42:25practitioners and keepers of our

1:42:29our precious resources. I mean the first

1:42:33job that I had at water supply was

1:42:35change the motto from water brings

1:42:38progress. That was the old motto. Milton

1:42:41Paval said Kanani that's not what where

1:42:44we want to go anymore. We want to

1:42:46protect our resource and our our board

1:42:49chair wants to change the model and we

1:42:52completely agree. What I did was work

1:42:54with the people in the department, work

1:42:57with the community and the board and we

1:42:59changed it to water our most precious

1:43:01resource kavaya

1:43:04and we integrated the whole chant kavaya

1:43:07kane into that model for the department

1:43:09of water supply because government needs

1:43:12to become more sensitive to the wisdom

1:43:15that lives in the land and in the people

1:43:18and that's why I'm on this that's why

1:43:20I'm on this team is because My children

1:43:24live in Himea and Waloa. One was in his

1:43:27truck working out of the hotels at

1:43:30security for years, you know, and I

1:43:33really mean it. When we need workforce

1:43:35housing, we really I really mean it.

1:43:37When we need to have my granddaughter,

1:43:40my daughter, her Kane

1:43:43in affordable housing with access to

1:43:47community gardens

1:43:49and her Kane being a poke chef of

1:43:52incredible

1:43:53expertise at the Wolo Poke Shop. Um, you

1:43:58know, I really mean it. when when our

1:44:02people are ready to step up, our people

1:44:04are trying to work with and I'm trying

1:44:06to educate

1:44:08our development community to understand

1:44:12these this delicate balance, right? And

1:44:16so we are with you in um in all of these

1:44:21questions. We are tracking with you too.

1:44:25That's all I wanted to say.

1:44:28>> All right. Anything else? Council member

1:44:31Kanye Kleinfelder.

1:44:32>> Thank you. Miss Ton, I remember you from

1:44:36the White Coloa Land Company discussions

1:44:38when we were in here with the last big

1:44:40subdivision. You're very good at what

1:44:41you do.

1:44:43Um, sustainable yield. After many many

1:44:46years of listening to everyone come in

1:44:48and tell me there's plenty of room in an

1:44:49aquafer uh I had the pleasure of meeting

1:44:52with Jonathan Shore

1:44:55uh who's pretty much a genius in the

1:44:57whole discussion uh has written books on

1:45:00it and when you talk to him on a Zoom

1:45:02meeting he's got the equation for

1:45:03sustainable yield right behind his head

1:45:06u it's what he does uh he was in the

1:45:08discussions with Maui uh and he was on

1:45:12the I think the water board the state

1:45:15level. Correct.

1:45:18>> These are smart man.

1:45:19>> Um he basically broke it down and said

1:45:22no human being can actually break down

1:45:24sustainable yield because we just don't

1:45:26understand it well enough. So we can

1:45:28have the discussion all day long about

1:45:30sustainable yield, but reality is we do

1:45:32not understand what we're doing to the

1:45:34aquifers. We don't understand the

1:45:35aquifers and we can't actually see them

1:45:38until we do. So then we can have a real

1:45:40solid discussion about how much units of

1:45:43development can be sustained by the

1:45:46water usage in certain areas. And just

1:45:48logically when I look at areas like

1:45:50White Kaloa, I scratch my head because

1:45:52the land is just bone dry, but I hear we

1:45:55have the most portable water and

1:45:57aquifers under that area than anywhere

1:45:59else on the island, which just doesn't

1:46:02logically track at all. Then I get

1:46:05family who lives in Kyapa who can't get

1:46:09any county water or any water resources

1:46:12at all because DHHL can't do it or

1:46:15because every time they tap a well they

1:46:17get brackish water. So um appreciate the

1:46:21conversation

1:46:22but as you are here with the applicants

1:46:26I'm going to look at you as being a

1:46:28proponent of the applicants. So, if

1:46:30we're going to have sustainable yield

1:46:31discussions, we should probably have

1:46:32them with someone who is,

1:46:38you know, not part of the applicant's

1:46:41group, if you will. Um, how many units

1:46:44are we looking at here?

1:46:49>> Yeah. So we we planned in our master

1:46:53plan conceptual master plan 675

1:46:56units 400 of which are multif family 275

1:47:00are the family agriculture 1acre plus

1:47:03lots

1:47:05>> more times 675

1:47:06>> 675 400 is multif family and 275 are one

1:47:12acre or larger lots

1:47:14>> okay

1:47:16how many uh how much water does an

1:47:17average unit take So multif family is

1:47:20pinned at 400 gallons per day per unit.

1:47:25Hawaii water service applied 1,200

1:47:28gallons per day for the 1acre lots.

1:47:33So total

1:47:35>> total is 180,000 for the multif family,

1:47:38330,000

1:47:40for the 1acre lots.

1:47:43>> So about 510,000

1:47:46per day.

1:47:47>> Yes. for

1:47:49>> plus the 10acre agriculture lot

1:47:51>> 10acre a lots are 780,000 gallons per

1:47:55day grand total 1.29

1:47:58>> 1.29 29 million gallons a day. You got

1:48:01tapped it off for four.

1:48:03>> So again, this is a very conservative

1:48:06planning estimate by Hawaii Water

1:48:09Service. It represents their engineers

1:48:14worst case scenario,

1:48:16um if you look at what permitted

1:48:19capacity versus pumped use, they never

1:48:23come close to the permitted capacity.

1:48:27And that's what we're seeing here. We're

1:48:30not anticipating to ever use anything

1:48:32close to 1.29 million gallons per day,

1:48:36but this is what Hawaii Water Service

1:48:39has to use to be

1:48:43confident that their system is basically

1:48:46bombroof.

1:48:48Understood? That's right. Now with the

1:48:50plan, you're walking in the door.

1:48:52>> In 20 years, you could come in and say,

1:48:54"Hey, we want to build this out a little

1:48:56bit more.

1:48:57we want to come in for a reason. We're

1:48:59going to increase and then that, you

1:49:01know, that's up to a different council

1:49:02and probably different us because we

1:49:04won't be here. Um, but that's that's

1:49:06your right now plan. Correct.

1:49:08>> Correct.

1:49:08>> Okay. How much open land are we moving

1:49:12into

1:49:14uh residential style or buildout?

1:49:17>> So, open to residential. I would have to

1:49:21do some hard math because the Highlands

1:49:26map was very kind of uh lobular and

1:49:30convoluted.

1:49:31>> Um I I have that in my notes.

1:49:34>> Yeah, I have that in my notes. I don't

1:49:35have it on the top of my head. Um but

1:49:38but I can say that in our conceptual

1:49:41master plan and in the reszone before

1:49:43you 111 approximately acres are zoned as

1:49:47open. So that is official and it

1:49:50restricts the uses and it lines up with

1:49:52what we're partnering with the dry

1:49:54forest initiative and trails and dry

1:49:57forest restoration public uses open

1:50:00space.

1:50:02>> How much of the current project land

1:50:05is open

1:50:08>> currently?

1:50:08>> Yeah, zone open.

1:50:10>> Uh I I again would have to check my

1:50:12notes.

1:50:13>> Okay.

1:50:13>> I don't know off the top of my head.

1:50:14Another thing I picked up in eight

1:50:16years, anytime you're moving from open

1:50:18to developable, that is a huge change.

1:50:21It is not to be understated. Happened

1:50:23right across the street over here.

1:50:24That's a huge change. That's a big ask.

1:50:27And you go from open to multif family

1:50:29dwellings. That's big.

1:50:31>> So to come in for that ask, I mean, just

1:50:33noting that for this body, it's not a

1:50:36small ask. That's a big ask.

1:50:38Um I I heard so far we're moving towards

1:50:43renewable energy and he had me but as I

1:50:45listen to the story you know there's the

1:50:48story there's the concept and then

1:50:50there's the actual build what is the

1:50:52renewable component here and I I get 10

1:50:55years in solar specifically so I'm

1:50:57looking for something good I like the

1:50:59project you listed out in other areas

1:51:01but I'm trying to figure out what that

1:51:03means and how that ties into the project

1:51:05and why it's important to the project

1:51:07and getting a reszone on top of your

1:51:10state land use request.

1:51:12>> You know, actually,

1:51:14we we wouldn't have to reszone for

1:51:17solar. Yeah. I mean, like you could put

1:51:19solar on pretty much any land in Hawaii,

1:51:23right? But what we wanted to do was we

1:51:25wanted to include these areas because we

1:51:27didn't want to leave it with no zoning.

1:51:33You know, we've we've had to kind of

1:51:35clean up

1:51:37the the kind of one of the difficult

1:51:39part of our job when we bought this

1:51:40property was we had to clean up a lot of

1:51:43the mistakes that our predecessors

1:51:48made

1:51:50at one time. You know, this property was

1:51:54state designated rural

1:51:57from open and egg to state boundary

1:52:01rural. All right. And that

1:52:05that was to build a 400 one acre lot

1:52:11development. All right. And with a golf

1:52:14course. Now

1:52:17what happened was after the state

1:52:20redesated from egg to rural, the

1:52:23developers came, the land owners came to

1:52:25the council and said we want to go from

1:52:28I think it was A5 or A10 to RA1A rural

1:52:33eggots 1 acre. Yeah. So the council

1:52:36reszoned it to RA1A. Okay.

1:52:40Because a developer didn't satisfy state

1:52:44land use commission uh conditions,

1:52:48the state land use commission reverted

1:52:51their rural boundary designation and

1:52:54went back to what it was before egg and

1:52:57open. Okay. But we were stuck with the

1:53:01RA1A

1:53:03which does is is incompatible with egg.

1:53:07So you know we've had we had a lot of

1:53:10discussions over you know how do we move

1:53:12forward all right do we go to the land

1:53:15use commission no we didn't want to do

1:53:17that so we we we wanted to exist within

1:53:22the egg designation and that's why we

1:53:25needed to go from RA1A to FA1A

1:53:29and and so you know a a lot of the um

1:53:32things that we have been doing over the

1:53:34past couple of years um had to do with

1:53:38trying to figure out, okay, how do we

1:53:40get to a point where this property can

1:53:43can can

1:53:45be developed into anything, you know,

1:53:48whatever it is that the community came

1:53:51and said, you know, we need housing, we

1:53:53need this, we need that, we needed to

1:53:55find a way to get it reszoned, but how

1:53:58do we do that? So

1:54:01that's why we're here before you trying

1:54:04to get that RA1A. Yeah, RA1A

1:54:09reszone to FA because that's compatible

1:54:12with our current state land use, you

1:54:14know, boundary amendment. Um, with

1:54:17regard to the solar renewable energy

1:54:20stuff, as as you know, um, these grids

1:54:23scale projects

1:54:26have to go through an RFP process.

1:54:28The last RFP

1:54:31was more than like two or three years

1:54:33ago. So the you know we were waiting for

1:54:36a new RFP to come out and that new RFP

1:54:39just came out like I think about two

1:54:40weeks ago. So now you know people are

1:54:42like looking for land and that kind of

1:54:44thing. So we are in discussion with um

1:54:47some renewable energy developers to use

1:54:51um a certain portion of our property to

1:54:53build a solar plus battery storage

1:54:56project, you know, which is a very

1:54:58popular one now. Um but but then again,

1:55:01I mean, we don't have a firm commitment

1:55:02that they're going to build. They got to

1:55:04they got to win the RFP and and um

1:55:08>> we do have a firm we're in a we're in a

1:55:10letter of intent agreement with a solar

1:55:12developer that's going to apply for this

1:55:13next RFP for a 30 megawatt project on

1:55:17200 of our acres of

1:55:20>> they need that for sight site uh

1:55:22control.

1:55:23>> Is it for the development or is it for

1:55:26the feedback and the energy production

1:55:29and the income stream? I'm trying to

1:55:32correlate why you doing energy renewable

1:55:35>> with

1:55:35>> well basically you know um we as the

1:55:39land owner would you know enter into a

1:55:42lease with the developer

1:55:46um so that they could have site control

1:55:48over the over the um history of the

1:55:50project you know whether it be 20 20

1:55:52years plus maybe five year um

1:55:55opportunity to extend the contract

1:55:57>> renewable energy developer.

1:56:00>> Yes. Yes. We would just be the land land

1:56:02owners.

1:56:02>> To be clear, literally in the last few

1:56:04days, we've signed an agreement, a

1:56:07letter of intent to lease 200 of our

1:56:09acres to a solar developer to

1:56:12participate in this next RFP with HEO to

1:56:15tie into the grid.

1:56:17>> So, that's what we're doing. That's 200

1:56:18of our acres. Show you where it is, but

1:56:20it's designated.

1:56:21>> Thank you.

1:56:22>> Yeah,

1:56:22>> that makes sense.

1:56:26>> I Okay. Is that really my five minutes?

1:56:30No, just just me talking part.

1:56:34>> You know, we took up some for now. It

1:56:37come back to me though.

1:56:39>> Thank you. Anyone else? Council member

1:56:41Kirkwoods.

1:56:43>> Thank you. Um I just want to appreciate

1:56:46all the effort that's gone on to engage

1:56:49community and you know evolve the

1:56:51project that's come before us. Love

1:56:54everything that we've heard so far. the

1:56:56concept of a fully integrated community

1:56:58where there's the food security, there's

1:57:00the energy component, and John, you said

1:57:02it earlier, creating a sense of

1:57:04community, a sense of belonging. I think

1:57:06that's so important, and it's at a

1:57:08critical place where I know for many

1:57:10people that live on the east side, they

1:57:12travel Saddle Road daily to go work and

1:57:16serve on the west side because there's a

1:57:18huge kind of hospitality industry

1:57:20component there. Having housing closer

1:57:23to where folks work, I think is very

1:57:26important. I think what gives a lot of

1:57:29the members on this body pause is it's

1:57:32in a very dry area of our community. And

1:57:35you can refer to a will serve letter

1:57:37from Hawaii Water Service Company. You

1:57:40can tell us all day long you believe

1:57:41that there's going to be water there. I

1:57:43think it's really important that we have

1:57:45a third party as many of my colleagues

1:57:47have mentioned here today to come before

1:57:49the council so that we can ask questions

1:57:52of the individual maybe not at even at

1:57:55the Hawaii water service level but I'm

1:57:58curious if I don't know who their

1:57:59overseeing body is if it is Seaworm if

1:58:02it's PUC if they're sending out these

1:58:04world will serve letters who is doing

1:58:07that calculation to ensure that they

1:58:10haven't maxed the capacity of water

1:58:13commitments for the area. So, is that an

1:58:16answer that you guys can provide today?

1:58:18Who would be that kind of like oversight

1:58:22body on the state side that keeps the

1:58:24private water company accountable

1:58:28that we could ask questions of?

1:58:32>> So, the enforcer and overseer is the

1:58:34commission on water resource management

1:58:36and it's part of um a state water plan

1:58:39that has five components. one of which

1:58:41is water use and development plan that

1:58:43looks at um the the projections for each

1:58:48aquafer. So yeah, it would be the

1:58:50commission seaworm.

1:58:52>> Great. Is it something you can do is

1:58:54facilitate them being here at the next

1:58:56time this body convenes so we can ask

1:58:58questions?

1:58:59>> I'm not sure. John Pippen,

1:59:01>> we can certainly ask.

1:59:02>> Yeah.

1:59:03>> Or does the request need to come from

1:59:05the council?

1:59:06>> Maybe.

1:59:07>> Okay.

1:59:09I mean when we think about um egg use

1:59:12versus portable use which that

1:59:14engineered water from the the purveyor

1:59:16in Waloa

1:59:18we could we could look at the drinking

1:59:22water uses as 29 um mgd or million

1:59:27gallons per day. That's the under roof

1:59:29domestic use. the egg use could be in

1:59:33from the other aquifer that we're

1:59:35straddling at this point and use that

1:59:38water for the egg water use and not

1:59:42perving or drinking water use. I mean

1:59:44that's another strategy and what I mean

1:59:45is when we look at how we manage our

1:59:49resources from a community-based

1:59:51perspective and the best in what science

1:59:53has to offer.

1:59:55We from our side, we should be thinking

1:59:58harder about where is this water going

2:00:01to come from and why should it come from

2:00:03a red flagged, you know, 16 million

2:00:06gallons per day um bumping into possible

2:00:09sustainable yield when we can go to

2:00:11another right there that our property is

2:00:13sitting on the border of and do better

2:00:16by what are the egg water use needs. We

2:00:19could do that too and float that to the

2:00:22commission as well. Um because when you

2:00:24think about it, it's like two cups next

2:00:26to each other of water, right? And you

2:00:30put a straw in one, which is what Kaloa

2:00:34Water Service already has is their straw

2:00:36for their existing system. We could do

2:00:39an egg straw in the other aquifer and

2:00:43produce those egg water uses from there.

2:00:46That could be a possible solution.

2:00:50>> Yeah, you know, that sounds like a great

2:00:52solution. if

2:00:54you you were God, you know, and if you

2:00:57could run everything. But, you know,

2:00:58we're kind of at the mercy of Wala Water

2:01:02Service. Um, you know, we they're the

2:01:04ones that going to give us water. Um,

2:01:07you know, I I have asked, you know, do

2:01:10you have treated water that we could use

2:01:12as part of this take from you because we

2:01:15don't obviously need it to be all

2:01:18portable water,

2:01:19>> you know. Um and and and if there's a

2:01:21way that we can if you know like water

2:01:24service did provide um you know treated

2:01:28water then you know we could buy that

2:01:31instead um and and and make our um you

2:01:35know take from the potable water less

2:01:38but you know we we were kind of like at

2:01:41the mercy of of the company.

2:01:46Yeah, I can appreciate the difficult

2:01:49position you folks are in now, but I I

2:01:51think it's important for us to be able

2:01:52to talk to those um entities um at a

2:01:57later date.

2:01:58>> Um on the housing component,

2:02:02is there a specific calculation of the

2:02:05units that you are setting aside for

2:02:07affordable or workforce? I know that

2:02:09that was something in your opening

2:02:11comments that you said you want to make

2:02:12sure to prioritize. So I don't think I

2:02:14heard actual percentages or numbers. Is

2:02:16that something you you're prepared to

2:02:18share today?

2:02:20>> So the uh inclusionary requirement for

2:02:22this project is 20% affordable. So 20%

2:02:25of the entire 675 units would be the

2:02:29affordable credits that we're

2:02:31responsible for.

2:02:32>> That's 135.

2:02:33>> So about 135 credits affordable.

2:02:37>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for being

2:02:40here.

2:02:43Thank you, Council Member Kirkwitz.

2:02:45Coming back to Council Member Viegas,

2:02:47she was faster than you. Sorry.

2:02:49>> Just a quick question. You said 135

2:02:52units.

2:02:53>> Credits.

2:02:54>> It's credits.

2:02:55>> Okay. What I've learned is that doesn't

2:02:56mean 135 homes.

2:02:59And when it comes to credits, we have an

2:03:02unfortunate history on this island um

2:03:05related to affordable housing credits.

2:03:07and we currently have $9 million or some

2:03:11radical number in affordable housing

2:03:13credits out there. Um, [snorts]

2:03:18so I I guess my question would be is

2:03:20your intention to actually build these

2:03:23affordable housing units or to buy

2:03:25credits?

2:03:27>> So our intention is to well, it's a

2:03:30great question. Obviously, our dream is

2:03:33to take 400 of the multif family units

2:03:36and take within those 400 135 affordable

2:03:40units. However, as you know, Chapter 11

2:03:43does provide different alternatives. For

2:03:46example, we're talking right now with a

2:03:47nonprofit affordable housing developer

2:03:50who would love to do more than that.

2:03:52Take because we have a lot of extra land

2:03:54right next to this where you could maybe

2:03:56do another project where maybe we'd do

2:03:58that or donate it to the county or to a

2:04:00nonprofit. So, it's a little early.

2:04:02We're trying to get an approval so we

2:04:04can we have engineering. There's so much

2:04:06to do after this approval if we're lucky

2:04:08enough to get it. That that's going to

2:04:10be part of our process to figure that

2:04:12all out. But our intention certainly is

2:04:13to build it within the multif family

2:04:16units.

2:04:17>> Okay. Um all key questions.

2:04:20Unfortunately, historically sitting up

2:04:21here, I've seen a litany of um

2:04:25circumstances and developers that have

2:04:28given land to the county to build and

2:04:31that land was in a flood corridor or you

2:04:34know Waloa land gave hundreds of acres

2:04:38for affordable housing and they're still

2:04:40cleaning up unexloded ordinances and

2:04:42haven't been able to build affordable

2:04:44housing on that land for decades. So we

2:04:47unfortunately in our county um have a

2:04:50history of um

2:04:55you know just saying okay sure but we've

2:04:59been screwed and our people have which

2:05:03is one of the reasons we're in the

2:05:05positions we're in. So, thank you for

2:05:07your diligence and your patience and um

2:05:12sorry, thank you and you're welcome

2:05:15because seven generations from now. I

2:05:18also want to express my appreciation for

2:05:20Kanani and your listening to her wisdom

2:05:25and the um inclusion of cultural

2:05:29practices and honoring those things.

2:05:31that is a role that you get to dance um

2:05:35you know sometimes on a very very fine

2:05:37line. Um but my concern here because

2:05:41another thing I've witnessed people by

2:05:44big pieces of land come in with too good

2:05:47to be true beautiful telling us there's

2:05:49going to be solar there's going to be

2:05:51food hubs we're going to donate to this

2:05:53that and the other. As soon as they get

2:05:55the zoning changes, boom, that

2:05:58property's on sale and they can sell it

2:06:01for tens of millions of dollars over

2:06:06what they actually bought it for. So, I

2:06:09just have to sit here. That's why we're

2:06:11vetting you so heavily.

2:06:12>> Fair enough. Beautiful. Can I say one

2:06:14thing about that? I mean, listen, I what

2:06:15what's been so interesting to me I'm

2:06:17from New Jersey. We build a lot of

2:06:19housing, a lot of affordable housing. We

2:06:21have a great uh state finance agency

2:06:24that helps with incentives because

2:06:25affordable is very difficult to build.

2:06:27>> Thank you for your creativity.

2:06:29>> And and also what what blows my mind on

2:06:32the Big Island is you know when we came

2:06:34first met with Mayor Roth I think it was

2:06:3610,000 housing units short of local

2:06:38needed housing. This isn't people coming

2:06:40like people need 10,000 20,000 units the

2:06:43number we hear. But when you really get

2:06:45into the weeds of taking a property like

2:06:47this, particularly ours, which has all

2:06:51kinds of constraints, we have drainage

2:06:53issues where there's flooding at the at

2:06:55the pool Malay intersection, the new

2:06:56traffic light. We're going to have to

2:06:58fix that. That's part of it. We talked

2:06:59to Councilman Houston about that.

2:07:01>> We have it's a uh hilly site. Have to

2:07:06cut the roads and I mean there's there's

2:07:08a lot to do and then on top of it, you

2:07:10have an affordable requirement. So, it's

2:07:12it's a difficult project to develop and

2:07:15build. And that's why I believe it's so

2:07:18hard to get these housing units done.

2:07:20But at the end of the day, if you want

2:07:22more affordable housing,

2:07:23>> you have to create more supply of

2:07:25housing. I mean, that's literally a

2:07:27problem. I respect your

2:07:28environmentalism. I really do. And I

2:07:30understand it's a balance always. I'm

2:07:32from New Jersey, so I understand housing

2:07:35and how much housing can be, you know,

2:07:37detrimental to the environment and so

2:07:39forth. But in this case, I truly believe

2:07:42we're doing the best we can with the

2:07:44constraints to offer something to the

2:07:46community that's special, that's

2:07:49different, that we take to heart. To

2:07:51your point about the um water usage,

2:07:54what I meant was it's as it's built down

2:07:56the road, we wouldn't be able to build

2:07:58if there's no water. I mean, you know,

2:07:59at that point, you wouldn't be able to

2:08:00build the next hundred multif family

2:08:03units, let's say. So to me it means that

2:08:06as Seaworm and Hawaii Water Service

2:08:09continue to look at this issue

2:08:12>> and whether or not they designate water

2:08:14supplies down the road that are

2:08:15sensitive and running out of sustainable

2:08:17water. That's going to be what we're

2:08:20going to deal with. I mean we won't be

2:08:21able to build those units which is you

2:08:23know what what could happen. And that's

2:08:25not only for us. It's for the whole

2:08:26region. and do you then start

2:08:27conservation and gray water and

2:08:30designating water supply and all those

2:08:31things that a lot of people in the

2:08:33mainland have done in areas where you

2:08:34end up with low water. So, we appreciate

2:08:37that and understand that and we're just

2:08:39here to if we can try and help with this

2:08:42housing deficit. We're not going to make

2:08:45as big an impact as we could on the

2:08:47whole island, but it's a relatively

2:08:48small amount of housing in an area

2:08:49>> and I appreciate that. And just, you

2:08:52know, to explain from my side, it's not

2:08:54just in the environmental standpoint,

2:08:55it's the historical standpoint. We've

2:08:58been told for decades that we just have

2:08:59to build more houses in order to build

2:09:02ourselves out of this housing crisis.

2:09:04But the paradigm is that the homes are

2:09:06being built in and the way they're being

2:09:08purchased and then they get flipped and

2:09:10then they get flipped again and we just

2:09:12end up in the same scenario with more

2:09:14houses that aren't affordable to the

2:09:17people that live here. So that is the

2:09:19struggle that we're trying to navigate

2:09:21which is why the questions about are

2:09:23they just going to be affordable housing

2:09:25credits? Are they actually going to be

2:09:27units on the ground? How long do they

2:09:29stay within that? Because we face that

2:09:32and have to make a lot of decisions.

2:09:34Something staying affordable for 15

2:09:36years and then they can sell at market

2:09:38value. We end up in the same place 15

2:09:41years from now. So

2:09:43>> I I will add one thing to that. We've

2:09:45been working with Cheronaba to

2:09:48You know, he said to me when I talked to

2:09:50him about it, I he was point blank said,

2:09:52"We've been screwed before. People build

2:09:55all the market and then suddenly

2:09:56disappear." And we've been working on an

2:09:58amendment to

2:09:59>> have incremental saw that with market

2:10:02rate, which I think is a very fair

2:10:04alternative. If we build 10 units of

2:10:06market, we have to do two affordable.

2:10:08You build 100, you got to do 20. And and

2:10:10that's a fair approach to this because

2:10:13that would signify I say build, it might

2:10:15be credits, it might be build. Again, I

2:10:17don't know how it works out in the end

2:10:18depending on the plan, but

2:10:19>> Well, I would highly encourage you to

2:10:21build them.

2:10:21>> I understand. And that's certainly our

2:10:23>> credits are a dime a dozen right now.

2:10:25And um anyway, I'll yield at this point.

2:10:27It's late in the evening. You guys have

2:10:29taken taken a [laughter]

2:10:32>> Well, you guys are getting paid

2:10:33overtime, so thank you so much. I really

2:10:35we really appreciate it.

2:10:36>> All right. Thank you, gentlemen. I

2:10:38appreciate it.

2:10:38>> Thank you.

2:10:39>> All right. Back to you, Council Member

2:10:40County Execut.

2:10:42>> Thank you. This may be a question for

2:10:44you or for Director Daryl. Uh fair share

2:10:46contributions. What is your plan for

2:10:49fair share contributions?

2:10:52>> Pay it, right?

2:10:55>> To pay to pay it.

2:10:56>> You guys don't pay double. Yeah, we'll

2:10:57put that down in the notes. [laughter]

2:11:00>> Jeff, what what is the Did you review

2:11:02the fair share for theirs as well?

2:11:05>> Hope you got the right number.

2:11:06>> Yes, please.

2:11:14>> Okay.

2:11:31>> [clears throat]

2:11:31>> Thought you let you off. Easy idea.

2:11:33>> Almost.

2:11:40Craziest.

2:11:45and bounds of this.

2:12:07[clears throat]

2:12:09>> So your question I apologize

2:12:13>> fair contributions Uh like just like the

2:12:16last tree what I ran through all of them

2:12:17before we started but

2:12:19>> this one was done earlier so it has that

2:12:2317,000

2:12:25for the single family.

2:12:26>> I'm going to ask the same thing. Please

2:12:27review.

2:12:28>> Yeah.

2:12:28>> Okay.

2:12:29>> Um additionally this one applies both to

2:12:32the single family and to the multif

2:12:35family.

2:12:35>> So both apply. Thank you.

2:12:38>> Thank you. And then uh was there a

2:12:41was there a

2:12:44set contribution form land parks

2:12:49finances that's been discussed already?

2:12:52>> Uh I mean that's part of this as far as

2:12:56the fair share. Is that what you're

2:12:57asking?

2:12:58>> Fair share can be anything though.

2:12:59Correct. It can be a dollar amount or it

2:13:01can be contributed land.

2:13:02>> It could but it does need to come to you

2:13:04folks for approval on that. Okay. And

2:13:08then the last one which is heavy which I

2:13:10didn't ask about yet, the urban part.

2:13:12Urban allows for different things to

2:13:14happen. Right now they're in rural.

2:13:16Correct.

2:13:17>> They're in agriculture.

2:13:19>> Agricultural and moving into

2:13:23urban with land use amendment

2:13:25>> for a very small portion of 14.8

2:13:29acres

2:13:30>> for the multif family.

2:13:32>> For the multif family.

2:13:33>> Right.

2:13:33>> Okay. Okay. And that ADUs are allowable

2:13:35in that section. Then

2:13:37>> they could be, but you're doing multif

2:13:40family. Uh their multif family is super

2:13:43high density. So it's not going to uh

2:13:47it's their density is far greater than

2:13:50the ADUs.

2:13:52>> Okay. And then they couldn't do what

2:13:54they wanted to do without getting the

2:13:56urban classification for Latin state

2:13:58land use. Correct.

2:14:00They could not do multifamily without

2:14:03the urban.

2:14:04>> Okay.

2:14:06>> The density on the 400 units is

2:14:09approximately 10 buildings with 40 units

2:14:11each. So I don't think it'd be possible

2:14:13to do ADUs on that space is very tight.

2:14:16And there's a clubhouse too.

2:14:17>> Okay. And that doesn't apply to the one

2:14:20acre

2:14:22family egg.

2:14:23>> Correct.

2:14:25on state land use agriculture you cannot

2:14:27do any use

2:14:33there is the lingering question of the

2:14:35the fire

2:14:39I what I heard was we met with them we

2:14:41understand their concerns and we

2:14:43appreciate them

2:14:44>> you can explain that [laughter]

2:14:45>> so actually I don't want you to dig into

2:14:48it too much okay

2:14:49>> um what only thing I'd point out is

2:14:51>> whoever approved the existing town of

2:14:54Waloa

2:14:56approved a oneway in one way out town

2:15:00with a huge amount of density that's

2:15:02relying on the same aquifers that you

2:15:04folks are trying to tie into and

2:15:08never took care of it. And so I I

2:15:10appreciate you saying you're going to

2:15:12have two ways in,

2:15:15but I I just the questions that we bring

2:15:18forward are because we've learned the

2:15:20lessons and we we've learned them

2:15:22statewide.

2:15:23>> Yeah. So when we see the projects you're

2:15:25bringing in, if we're not if we don't

2:15:27ask the right questions and make sure

2:15:28that you're being held to the standard

2:15:30that we build into our code because we

2:15:32learned our mistakes, then we failed.

2:15:34>> Of course.

2:15:35>> So I I appreciate you saying we met with

2:15:37him and talked to him, but you guys

2:15:39really got to design that community

2:15:40well.

2:15:41>> Yeah.

2:15:41>> In order to not create like you spoke

2:15:44about Lahina.

2:15:45>> But I mean that the reality is White

2:15:47Kaloa is just waiting. That's why I

2:15:51forget your name. What is your name?

2:15:52>> John.

2:15:53Oh,

2:15:54>> Matt. That's a good name.

2:15:58>> That's why Matt is so like he's like

2:16:00he's like a one hit wonder. He's been in

2:16:02here for the last two years coming to

2:16:03bug us about the the fire safety net

2:16:07that we're supposed to be building. That

2:16:08that is our role as government and for

2:16:11what you're asking for, what you're

2:16:12going to build, where you're building

2:16:14it, and the density you're increasing by

2:16:16and what's already existing in the area.

2:16:19It there's a concern and that's what Mr.

2:16:22Houston brings up all the time and and

2:16:23Matt brings up. So you guys you guys got

2:16:26to address that. Well, not just we

2:16:27appreciate it. No,

2:16:28>> it's like that nice government answer.

2:16:30Yeah, we met with community. We

2:16:32appreciate their concerns.

2:16:34>> Sounds good.

2:16:35>> Yeah. No, I think you know like like I

2:16:37said, I think the best thing we can do

2:16:40for the wildfire issue is to be

2:16:42responsible stewards of our land and not

2:16:45make it so that our property

2:16:48is wildfire fuel. Okay. So, from day

2:16:53one, you know, we've been working on

2:16:55firereaks. We have a fire break up mala

2:16:58mala of our property. We had uh worked

2:17:01with DOT to widen those fire breaks.

2:17:04Subsequent to Laana, worked with WD uh

2:17:07DFI to create new firerekes on our

2:17:10property. Uh part of the Leeward

2:17:12Planning Commission's um conditions for

2:17:16our development is to put up another

2:17:18siren in that area. So there's more

2:17:21notice to people. So, you know,

2:17:26we don't have it within our wherewithal

2:17:28to go build a new road for the

2:17:31community. You know, I don't think

2:17:32anybody's asking us to do that. I think

2:17:35the best thing we can do again is to

2:17:37support their effort in whatever way we

2:17:40can and we we we hope to do so. You

2:17:42know, we try to do so. Um, but we really

2:17:46want to, you know, eliminate this

2:17:48property from being um something that

2:17:51could could catch fire. You know, right

2:17:54now it's dry. It's undeveloped. We want

2:17:56to put in, you know, roads that's going

2:17:59to like split up the property. So, the

2:18:02natural fire, you know, firereaks,

2:18:04um,

2:18:05>> CCRs,

2:18:06>> CCRs, you know, we we we uh village

2:18:10association.

2:18:11Village is a fires safe community.

2:18:14There's certain things that um come with

2:18:16that to get that designation and we want

2:18:19to do that. We've already pledged that

2:18:21you want to work and get that fires safe

2:18:24community label and and uh so you know

2:18:28yeah I mean

2:18:32we've kind of

2:18:34we've kind of done what we said we were

2:18:36going to do. Okay. If there's more we

2:18:39can do, let us know. We'll try to do it.

2:18:42>> Yeah, sorry. Thank you.

2:18:48>> Council member Hustus.

2:18:50>> Thanks, Sher. And thank you for the

2:18:52questions and I know it's and I

2:18:54appreciate the attendance from community

2:18:55members to kind of talk about this. And

2:18:57I've had this conversation with Mr.

2:18:58Pippen, Mr. Yoshimura and the team on

2:19:00this um kind of just that

2:19:04what's known on our leeward communities

2:19:06and the high risk of hiring and all of

2:19:08our leeward communities. Um I mean

2:19:10that's why in the previous budget cycle

2:19:13I put $2.5 million in the capital budget

2:19:15to go after a design study for arterial

2:19:20road for Walo village. It it hasn't

2:19:22happened. You know it's something I

2:19:23still have a conversation with with

2:19:24administration. I mean, that's why I

2:19:26also put I moved $2 million from our

2:19:29reserves into capital budgets to tackle

2:19:32some of these capital budgets we have

2:19:34just lingering and languishing on the

2:19:35list. Uh so it was important to me to

2:19:37take those community concerns and and

2:19:40drive it through our our budget cycle

2:19:42through policy those sort of things. Um

2:19:45the state is working on in partnership

2:19:48with Goodfellow Brothers on that second

2:19:50egress road for the north end of Wol

2:19:52village. That is something that is

2:19:53happening as we speak. You know, it's

2:19:56not the solution and that and all answer

2:19:58for the community because as the

2:20:00community grows, I mean, we have county

2:20:02properties on the north side of the

2:20:04village. We have, uh, Wol Heights is

2:20:06doing their thing on that side, which we

2:20:08will see again in this space. Um, but

2:20:11that's, you know, we're seeing

2:20:13development in that area. So that that's

2:20:15why I took that stance early on in in my

2:20:17in my role here in the seat next to all

2:20:19of you is that I saw that there was an

2:20:21issue and we need to drive it through

2:20:23our budget cycle and also through

2:20:24policy. Um and there's definitely more

2:20:27to come on that policy side. So I I

2:20:30chair, I don't know how you want to

2:20:31handle this um in terms of the

2:20:33discussion of amendments for the reszone

2:20:36application and that proposal with bill

2:20:39187 uh to have further conversations

2:20:41about some of these intricate pieces

2:20:42that we've been talking about uh

2:20:45regarding housing, affordable housing,

2:20:46wildfire preparedness, uh and another

2:20:49issue that as the consultant and and the

2:20:51team uh already know, the developer know

2:20:53and the land owners know about that I

2:20:55wanted to bring up as well. So chair,

2:20:58>> yes. So, um I kind of wanted to get a

2:21:00temperature check of where folks are if

2:21:01they want to continue working on this

2:21:03today. Um in which case I would suggest

2:21:06that we take we have a motion to table

2:21:09one

2:21:1186 move to 187 and then we can discuss

2:21:15those amendments or if there's a sense

2:21:18that we need to postpone we might as

2:21:20well just postpone and then postpone

2:21:22187.

2:21:22>> Motion to table

2:21:24>> about bill 186.

2:21:26Motion by council member Houston,

2:21:28seconded by council member Kirkwitz to

2:21:29table 186. All those in favor?

2:21:32>> I.

2:21:32>> Any opposed?

2:21:34Are you opposed to tableling?

2:21:36>> I have something to show just that you

2:21:39need to

2:21:39>> we're Yeah, we're already in the motion.

2:21:41Um so we have uh one, two, three, four,

2:21:45five, six. Are you a no on the tableing?

2:21:49>> Uh yeah.

2:21:51>> Okay. So we have six in favor and then

2:21:53we have one opposed and two absent. Um

2:21:56one opposed is council member Viegas,

2:21:58two absent are council member Onishi and

2:22:00council member Gimba. So 186 is tabled.

2:22:04Can I have a motion on 187 please?

2:22:07>> Chair motion to forward bill 187 to

2:22:09council with a favorable recommendation.

2:22:12>> Motion to move 187 to council with a

2:22:15favorable recommendation by council

2:22:17member Husta. Seconded by council member

2:22:19Kirkowitz. Uh, Council Member Eustace,

2:22:22go ahead. You have a

2:22:22>> Can I just quickly point of information?

2:22:25Um, we still have another committee and

2:22:27the person who's supposed to do that

2:22:29presentation has been waiting in Kona

2:22:32Chambers for hours. So, I just wanted to

2:22:34throw that out there as we move forward.

2:22:37Thank you. Thank you,

2:22:39>> Chair. At this time, I move to amend

2:22:41bill 187 with the contents of

2:22:43communication 1025.2.

2:22:47Motion by council member Houston,

2:22:49seconded by council member Kirkwitz to

2:22:52amend bill 187 with the contents of

2:22:55communication 1025.2.

2:22:57Council member Hustus on the amendment.

2:22:59>> Sure. Thank you, chair. First want to

2:23:01just once again acknowledge the

2:23:02testimony that we've received regarding

2:23:04wildfire risk, evacuation concerns in

2:23:06Wollo village. Uh these are not new

2:23:09issues. I think it's important that we

2:23:11take them seriously as we consider, you

2:23:12know, additional development in a lot of

2:23:15our leeward communities. Um there are

2:23:16num number of different issues that are

2:23:18being raised including evacuation

2:23:20capacity, the need for additional

2:23:22access, defensible spaces, vegetation

2:23:25management, and the ability of homes and

2:23:27neighborhoods themselves to better

2:23:29withstand wildfires.

2:23:31I do not believe that any of these

2:23:33measures, you know, stand alone, them

2:23:36stand alone is the answer. We need to

2:23:38work on all of these pieces at the same

2:23:40time. Uh so the amendment I'm bringing

2:23:42before you addresses one piece of that

2:23:44larger picture by establishing a

2:23:46stronger wildfire resilience expectation

2:23:48for the development. It would require

2:23:50the development achieve maintain

2:23:52compliance with the principles of the

2:23:54firewise USA program or an equivalent

2:23:56county approved wildfire resilience

2:23:58plan. So rather than relying solely on

2:24:01voluntary action as we've seen in other

2:24:03communities where it's it's taken up

2:24:05piece at a time particularly seen in the

2:24:07village association Walo village that

2:24:09voluntary action after homes have

2:24:11already been built. I believe we should

2:24:13be looking at opportunities to

2:24:14incorporate that wildfire mitigation

2:24:16into new development from the get-go and

2:24:18from the beginning. Uh there's an

2:24:20important distinction between asking

2:24:22families in existing homes to absorb the

2:24:24cost of retrofitting communities that

2:24:26were developed years ago whereas

2:24:27establishing appropriate fire safety

2:24:29expected when the new development is

2:24:31being planned and designed and thought

2:24:32out. I've discussed this measure and

2:24:35amendment uh with our Hawaii fire

2:24:37department prevention division which was

2:24:39they were supportive in incorporating

2:24:41fire wise principles into this project.

2:24:44And I also appreciate the developer and

2:24:45this agreement with this condition and

2:24:47recognizes the value of incorporating

2:24:49measures in their projects. Uh Hoy

2:24:52County does not yet have a comprehensive

2:24:54framework addressing wildfire resilience

2:24:57and the wildland urban interface

2:24:59development. This is something that I

2:25:00continue to work on. Uh but that work

2:25:02will take additional time and careful

2:25:04consideration and we need standards that

2:25:06are effective, legally sound, practical

2:25:09to administer and appropriate for the

2:25:11different levels of wildfire risk across

2:25:13our island. So in the meantime, when

2:25:15significant new development is being

2:25:17proposed within a community that we know

2:25:19faces substantial wildfire risk, I

2:25:21believe there's a a reasonable uh means

2:25:23to establish a higher expectation for

2:25:25resilience. Uh this amendment is not

2:25:28intended to suggest that fire wise

2:25:29principles, defensible space or home

2:25:32hardening eliminate the need to address

2:25:34evacuation infrastructure. Not by any

2:25:36means. They do not. Likewise, an

2:25:38additional evacuation route does not

2:25:40eliminate the need to reduce likelihood

2:25:41that homes will ignite and fire spreads

2:25:43through a neighborhood. So we need to

2:25:45once again work on these together. You

2:25:47know, and as we've been discussing here,

2:25:48Waloa has experienced significant

2:25:50wildfire threats and risk, and this

2:25:52project gives us an opportunity to build

2:25:54resilience into the community now rather

2:25:57than retrofitting later. So, my hope is

2:25:59that this condition can begin

2:26:00establishing a stronger expectation for

2:26:03new developments in the WO area while we

2:26:06continue that larger conversation and

2:26:07larger work about improving evacuation

2:26:09capacity and developing a more

2:26:11comprehensive wildfire resilience

2:26:12framework for Hawaii County. So, thank

2:26:15you for your consideration.

2:26:19>> Thank you, Council Member Custous.

2:26:21Anyone else on the amendment?

2:26:24>> Council member,

2:26:25>> just confirming verbal. Yes, you folks

2:26:27are not opposed to this

2:26:30>> one that we just received a little while

2:26:31ago.

2:26:32>> No one.

2:26:35>> Oh, I'm so sorry.

2:26:36>> All the firewise.

2:26:39>> Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

2:26:43>> All right. Anyone else? Um, I'd actually

2:26:46just like corporation council to confirm

2:26:49that we can do this and require the

2:26:53well, the one the wording I have is the

2:26:55approved um, sorry that I have concerned

2:26:57about the approved plan shall be binding

2:26:59upon the property owner and any

2:27:01successor owners association

2:27:04or other entity responsible for

2:27:06maintenance of the development. Can you

2:27:08just confirm that that's legally

2:27:10allowable?

2:27:31Rene show corporation council. Um we

2:27:33don't see any uh legal issue or

2:27:35impediment to that requirement

2:27:37>> and we it um

2:27:41we have the authority at this stage to

2:27:43make it legally binding to all future

2:27:45owners as this proposes.

2:27:48>> Yes.

2:27:49>> Okay. Just confirming. Thank you. All

2:27:51right. With that, any other discussion

2:27:52on the amendment?

2:27:56>> All those in favor, please say I.

2:27:58>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven

2:28:00eyes. Council members Unishi and Galima

2:28:03are absent and excused. Um,

2:28:08take the next one up.

2:28:09>> Yes. Thank you, chair. Uh, chair move to

2:28:11further amend bill 187 with the contents

2:28:13of communication 102

2:28:155.3.

2:28:18>> Motion by council member Houston,

2:28:20seconded by council member Kirkwitz to

2:28:22amend bill 187 with the contents of

2:28:24communication 1025.3.

2:28:28>> Thank you, chair. Uh this amendment

2:28:30relates to strengthening of condition K

2:28:32relating to drainage and flood

2:28:34mitigation. So as I've been reviewing

2:28:36this project, one important

2:28:37consideration is the recently completed

2:28:40South Kohala flood study. Uh that study

2:28:43identifies Waloa road and Puia area as

2:28:46what is called as area of concern number

2:28:48two in the flood study and confirms that

2:28:51there's significant runoff reaches this

2:28:52area from a much larger upstream

2:28:55watershed. Uh it also identifies that

2:28:58the lack of storm water infrastructure

2:29:00in this area is as a major is a major

2:29:02contributor to existing flooding along

2:29:04Puleia and Waloa road. Uh the existing

2:29:07condition K already requires that the

2:29:10applicant address development generated

2:29:12runoff and prepare drainage studies for

2:29:14each phase. And this amendment builds

2:29:16upon that requirement by calling out a

2:29:18more comprehensive approach that

2:29:20considers the findings in the flood

2:29:22study upstream uh and off-site runoff

2:29:25existing drainage patterns and potential

2:29:26downstream impacts. I also want to

2:29:28acknowledge that the developer has been

2:29:30engaged in this discussion and a support

2:29:32of the condition. Um, there's an

2:29:35agreement that flood issues identified

2:29:37on and around this property need to be

2:29:39addressed appropriately as the project

2:29:41moves forward and I appreciate their

2:29:42willingness to work towards a solution.

2:29:45The amendment does not prescribe any

2:29:46specific engineering outcome. It allows

2:29:49applicant and the department of public

2:29:51works to determine the appropriate

2:29:53drainage and flood mitigation meas

2:29:55measures based upon the best available

2:29:57information and those engineered

2:29:59analyses. Uh the intent is simply to

2:30:01make sure that we use this information

2:30:03that's now available to us with the

2:30:04South Paul flood study and address the

2:30:07known flood concerns associated within

2:30:09within and around this property and

2:30:11ensure that the future development does

2:30:12not worsen existing conditions in that

2:30:14area. Um and just some backstory on that

2:30:17the south flood study came out in the

2:30:19spring like it public works has been

2:30:22working on for a while and there are

2:30:24numerous areas in Waloa village

2:30:26specifically that have major kind of

2:30:28flooding concerns. uh from our Malcoa

2:30:31watersheds and the property in question

2:30:33here is between one of those two um

2:30:36branches of the Alaka Kua uh stream

2:30:40system there in that wershed in between

2:30:42two of the branches. So providing some

2:30:44context there. Thanks for your

2:30:45consideration.

2:30:46>> Thank you council member Houston.

2:30:48Council member Penner

2:30:50>> I I like this amendment question for the

2:30:53applicant. Uh does Brown and Caldwell

2:30:55work for you in any manner?

2:30:57>> No.

2:30:58>> Okay. Thank you. That's good. Um I

2:31:01really appreciate this amendment, Mr.

2:31:03Eustace.

2:31:05Uh we have the similar issues in Puno

2:31:07where we have basically we have ravines

2:31:09that fill with water, but they're not

2:31:11streams. But when they fill with water

2:31:14and it rains, it becomes a disaster. But

2:31:16because it's not an actual stream or

2:31:18river, it doesn't qualify as an actual

2:31:21water source. So no one views it that

2:31:24way and we just let things go until it

2:31:26becomes a problem which is what we see

2:31:28during uh

2:31:31events like the Konolo and Hurricane

2:31:32Lala and Hurricane Isel. I mean it just

2:31:35then we see it. So this is actually

2:31:37brilliant. Thank you. I I'll be

2:31:38supporting.

2:31:40>> Thank you council member. Anyone else?

2:31:43Saying none. Oh go ahead council member.

2:31:45Just briefly, we we were having

2:31:47discussions about phasing so that we

2:31:50couldn't figure out the phasing language

2:31:52for affordable housing. Yet, this

2:31:54amendment is using phases for grading.

2:31:57So, just if we can get a quick blurb as

2:32:00to what the phases indicate as it

2:32:03relates to grading and grubbing.

2:32:04>> Yeah. So, so thank you for the question,

2:32:06Council Member Inaba. Um, this phase

2:32:10language would just pertain to what is

2:32:13submitted in the grading application. So

2:32:15it doesn't specify number of units or

2:32:18area of the property. It's whatever the

2:32:21grading permit is talking about is the

2:32:23phase in this language.

2:32:26>> Okay. So if you submit one application

2:32:29then that would be phase one and then

2:32:32the subsequent

2:32:33>> application for a different area would

2:32:35be phase two.

2:32:36>> I wouldn't call it a capital P phase.

2:32:39No, but for the purposes of this

2:32:43amendment, that would be that phase of

2:32:46the grading work. Yes.

2:32:49>> Whatever was contained within an

2:32:51application. So is an application. The

2:32:54application would not apply for multiple

2:32:57phases. It would just be for one thing

2:32:59and that would be considered the phase.

2:33:02>> I think I can explain. So this

2:33:04particular area I think so we're talking

2:33:06about I think basically chapter 11 is

2:33:10very clear that you can't just dump

2:33:12water on a neighboring property. You

2:33:14need to handle it yourself. So this

2:33:16drainage requirement we'll look at

2:33:18internally about when we're building

2:33:20units that would be say flooded by

2:33:22water. So we'd have to divert water at

2:33:24that point which would be part of that

2:33:26phase. So I think that's John's point.

2:33:28It's not a big B. It's a little B. We'll

2:33:31get into the engineering study to

2:33:32understand, you know, at what point do

2:33:34we need to build that and how does it

2:33:36relate to the development that makes

2:33:39sense?

2:33:39>> Nothing to do with chapter 11 here, but

2:33:41I will follow up with council member

2:33:42Eustace on this after. Thank you.

2:33:46>> Thank you.

2:33:48Any further discussion on the amendment?

2:33:51All those in favor of amending bill 187

2:33:54with the contents of communication

2:33:581025.3, please say I. Any opposed? Mr.

2:34:02Crook, you have seven eyes. Council

2:34:04member Onishi and Galima are excused.

2:34:10>> Motion to further amend bill 187 with

2:34:12the contents of communication 1025.5.

2:34:18>> Motion by council member, seconded by

2:34:20council member Hues to amend bill 187

2:34:23with the contents of communication

2:34:251025.5.

2:34:26Council member.

2:34:27>> Uh, thank you, chair. I did have

2:34:30discussions with the applicant regarding

2:34:33um certain commitments to um affordable

2:34:37for sale lots. Um we weren't able to

2:34:41commit to some of those. So, we're not

2:34:44adding on to any of the affordable

2:34:46housing requirements beyond chapter 11,

2:34:48but this amendment does specify

2:34:51uh that within every 20% of the market

2:34:55rate, you cannot proceed on to the next

2:34:57set of 20 of market rate without um

2:34:59having earned 20% of the affordable

2:35:03housing requirement that was due in

2:35:06accordance with the first. And then for

2:35:09the last 20% you would need to have

2:35:12completed all of your affordable housing

2:35:14requirement prior to commencing the last

2:35:1620% of market rate development. Uh and

2:35:20this just this is something that I think

2:35:23we will be discussing as part of our um

2:35:27tweaks to chapter 11. We haven't done

2:35:29that yet, but we do know that um there

2:35:32were instances in Kona where we didn't

2:35:34get the affordable housing at all. So,

2:35:36this just ensures that we we get it and

2:35:38it doesn't preload them with having to

2:35:41do all of the affordable prior to the

2:35:43first market, but it does make sure that

2:35:45they cannot proceed past the 20% mark

2:35:49without us getting some affordable

2:35:51housing. So, um you folks have any

2:35:54comments or questions on this amendment?

2:35:57I did share it prior.

2:35:59>> No, we're fine with it. I think it makes

2:36:01a lot of sense. It's what I spoke to you

2:36:02about earlier. Absolutely.

2:36:03>> All right. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

2:36:05I ask for your support.

2:36:07>> Thank you. Any other conversation on the

2:36:09amendment?

2:36:12All right. Seeing none, all those in

2:36:14favor, please say I.

2:36:15>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven

2:36:18eyes. Council members Onishi and Galima

2:36:21excused. That brings us back to the main

2:36:25motion 187 as amended. Any further

2:36:28conversation about the main bill?

2:36:32Council member. Yeah, I do have a

2:36:34question. Being that this is a larger

2:36:36development, have you folks consulted

2:36:38with the Department of Education

2:36:40regarding um the ability of Waloa

2:36:43schools to accommodate additional

2:36:46students?

2:36:47>> No, not at this time formally. Have we

2:36:50had any DOE consultation?

2:36:52>> Okay. Yeah, let's get that done. Um I'm

2:36:56I'd like to postpone this so that we can

2:36:59have further discussion uh with perhaps

2:37:02somebody uh on the waterfront and then

2:37:05hopefully by that point we'll have a

2:37:08letter either from the complex area

2:37:10superintendent or the superintendent of

2:37:12the state regarding the ability of the

2:37:15white below school to accommodate this

2:37:18additional um students and we typically

2:37:21don't discuss that because we don't have

2:37:23huge projects But this is this is a

2:37:26project that would add significant um

2:37:30you know residential units there and I I

2:37:33personally don't know what the status is

2:37:35of um the school's capacity at this

2:37:37time.

2:37:39>> Thank you.

2:37:42>> We have a motion to postpone coming from

2:37:45someone.

2:37:46>> Motion to postpone.

2:37:47>> Oh wow. Can is there any way I could

2:37:49comment on that?

2:37:50>> Cry. Yes.

2:37:51>> I'm sorry. I

2:37:53I

2:37:55was really hoping that we could come out

2:37:56of here tonight with a vote and if

2:37:59there's something that we could do as a

2:38:01condition for the next reading, is it

2:38:03possible to do that so we could have a

2:38:05vote?

2:38:07>> Um, okay. That that I thought you were

2:38:10going to comment on the previous

2:38:11comment. Um, we need a motion on the

2:38:14floor regarding the postponement, I

2:38:15think, before you can contribute to that

2:38:17conversation. So, Council Member Inaba,

2:38:20uh,

2:38:22Did she make the motion or she's about

2:38:24>> I started to started to

2:38:25>> I guess let me just ask regarding

2:38:28I don't think you want to vote tonight

2:38:30because I don't think the body overall

2:38:32is is we have questions still regarding

2:38:34the water and now the school. I see.

2:38:37>> Um so not that it would die tonight but

2:38:40if we took a vote I'm not sure it would

2:38:42be favorable. So I think it might be

2:38:45better to have this and we with

2:38:48potential amendments we do like to

2:38:50figure these out in committee and not at

2:38:53council. So I don't know how long you

2:38:56folks would like and I think on our end

2:38:59my office will take charge and at least

2:39:01getting Mr. Shore um as a as a water

2:39:06resource person um to our next meeting.

2:39:09I'm not sure. I did tell him when it

2:39:11would be. Um, but is two weeks adequate

2:39:14for you folks to be able to get an

2:39:17answer regarding the schools and perhaps

2:39:21any of the other concerns that might

2:39:22have been expressed or brought up this

2:39:24evening and that would be for September

2:39:2715th. If not, the next committee meeting

2:39:30would be on October six. Both both of

2:39:32them being here in Hilo. Yeah, as you

2:39:35can imagine, I flew in and got postponed

2:39:38because of LA and I'm flown in this

2:39:40time, but if that's what you require of

2:39:41me, I'll be back in two weeks.

2:39:44>> You're free to join via Zoom as well. I

2:39:46hate to do that. Have your your partners

2:39:48here in

2:39:49>> It's important to be in person. I

2:39:50appreciate it. It's important to all of

2:39:51us.

2:39:52>> Okay. So, September 15th.

2:39:55>> Okay. Move to postpone. Uh can we Mr.

2:40:00Clerk, sorry, is that one at a time for

2:40:02each bill on postponements? We'll have

2:40:04to bring 186 off the table.

2:40:05>> Move to postpone bill 187 to the

2:40:09September 15th committee meeting.

2:40:11Second.

2:40:12>> Motion by council member Nava, seconded

2:40:13by council member Viegas to postpone

2:40:15bill 187 to the September 15th meeting.

2:40:18All those in favor, please say I.

2:40:20>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven

2:40:22eyes. Bill 187 is postponed to September

2:40:2515th.

2:40:27>> What's that?

2:40:29>> Oh, I'm sorry. Council members uh Onishi

2:40:31and Galima

2:40:32>> move to postpone bill 186.

2:40:35>> We'll have to re remove it from the

2:40:36table first.

2:40:37>> Oh yeah, sorry. Um move to remove move

2:40:40to remove move to

2:40:43remove bill 186 from the table.

2:40:47>> Motion by council member, second by

2:40:49council member Kirkwitz. All those in

2:40:51favor, please say I. Any opposed? You

2:40:54have seven eyes. Council members Onishi

2:40:57and Galima excused to remove that was um

2:41:01Kirk Witz.

2:41:05>> Okay. Motion to postpone bill 186 to the

2:41:09September 15th committee meeting.

2:41:10>> Second.

2:41:11>> Motion by council member Na seconded by

2:41:13council member Viegas to postpone 186 to

2:41:16the September 15th meeting. All those in

2:41:18favor please say I.

2:41:19>> Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven

2:41:22eyes. Council members Onishi and Viegas

2:41:24excused. With that, we have come to the

2:41:26end of our agenda. The time is 7:06. We

2:41:30are adjourned. Thank you everyone for

2:41:32your patience and getting started and

2:41:34your patience for the long discussions

2:41:36and we will see you again in two weeks.

2:41:38>> Thank you.

2:41:38>> Thank you.

2:41:40>> We will begin our final committee

2:41:42shortly. This is the communications

2:41:46reports

2:41:49and council oversight committee. Mahalo.

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