2026-09-17 - Committee on Recreation

00:11We're good.

00:25>> Good afternoon everybody. This is uh

00:27city councilman Jim McBride, the chair

00:29in the recreation committee meeting on

00:32uh se was it September? September 17th.

00:36Um we have

00:38the mayor uh Councilman Sheileely,

00:42myself, Councilwoman Scardarden uh is

00:45online and councilman Ben Dellesander is

00:47online as well.

00:50So let's take a moment for um Barry Hes

00:53in silence.

01:03Okay. Amen. Um, can I make a motion uh

01:06to approve the minutes from last

01:07meeting?

01:09>> Second.

01:12>> All right. Any uh

01:15we'll go and vote. Um, if in favor say

01:18I.

01:19>> I. I.

01:22>> Okay, it passes. Um,

01:25no public participation today. We're

01:27going to Any uh old business? Any

01:30comments from anybody of the committee

01:32members about old business from last

01:33meeting?

01:34>> Is there public participation?

01:37There's none. Okay.

01:39We put this on the agenda.

01:41>> No, no, no. Just maybe next month we

01:43might do it.

01:44>> Okay.

01:45>> Okay.

01:47>> Fair.

01:49Any comments for old business? If not,

01:52we will move to new business. Um, so

01:56item A,

01:58uh, requested by Councilwoman Scarden,

01:59review of the 2023 recreation bond

02:01referendum list and status of projects.

02:05>> I can take that one, Mr. Chairman. Um,

02:08we are pretty close. We have a draft

02:14u that is not quite finished that

02:18outlines

02:20um the status of every listed project on

02:22the 23 bond, what the funding um plan is

02:27for each one of them. And also we've

02:31included in this uh all the other work

02:34that has been done on projects outside

02:37the bond that is relevant for every

02:40every council member because it affects

02:41every one of their districts. So, uh,

02:44for example, if if, [snorts]

02:46um, Hazel Park or playground downtown

02:49was not specifically listed on the park

02:53wreck bond, but we through a public

02:56private partnership, uh, are doing

02:58pretty significant work there. Um, but

03:01the funding is not coming from the bond,

03:03it's coming from other sources. So,

03:05we're outlining the parks and wreck bond

03:08and where that money is going. And then

03:11we're uh highlighting all the other

03:14projects that have either been done or

03:16are being done or soon to start, if you

03:19will, uh related. And we'll have that

03:22package completed by the next WCK uh

03:26meeting. So, if any of the council

03:28members would like to see a draft of

03:30that beforehand, happy to provide it.

03:33Um, Hampton Logan is running point on

03:35it. Uh, and would love your input before

03:39it is finalized and and uh made public

03:43to the to the general population.

03:48>> Councilman Scott, any question,

03:50follow-up questions or comments?

03:52>> No, that's great. Thank you. I remember

03:54um you had shared that during council,

03:55so I was excited to see where that was

03:58going because I know there are a couple

04:00of James Island projects on there. So

04:02yes, if um you all are willing to share

04:04a copy before the next meeting, would

04:06love to take a peek and help in any way

04:08I can.

04:10>> Very good.

04:14Okay. So the next item, any last

04:17comments on item A?

04:19If not, the next item is

04:23my attempt to frame this discussion. Um

04:27so when we we and I'll just read it real

04:30quick. Sorry. the announcement um

04:32regarding

04:34discussion at the next month's the

04:36October recreation committee meeting

04:39related to regional and local rugby and

04:41lacrosse and other uh organizations

04:44practice and events and balancing with

04:47city recreation programming. Um so since

04:51I've been on the committee this short

04:52time uh I've been reached out to by Mr.

04:54Maloney of associated with the

04:57Charleston Rugby uh association

05:00several times and I know he had

05:02submitted um a proposal a year or so ago

05:05or maybe even further. Um so me being

05:08new it's taken a lot to just get my feet

05:10underneath me and understand kind of the

05:11history with this this uh proposal and

05:13and Coach Dan Chism Park usage and

05:17lacrosse etc etc etc. There's a lot to

05:20unwind there and when we've brought it

05:22up in previous recreation committee

05:23meetings, Lori Yarboro gave a great

05:26summary of all the the pros and cons and

05:28all the things that recreation committee

05:30has to deal with on a regular basis and

05:32then you have as well uh since then. And

05:35I'll be flatout honest, it is so much

05:37information and they do so much with so

05:40much programming in so many fields

05:41around the city of Charleston. It's

05:42impossible for I think anyone just to

05:45hear it to fully understand and digest

05:48what you all are dealing with on a

05:49regular basis to to me to to try to

05:52deconlict all the interests and manage

05:53all the interests. Um so I want to give

05:56due diligence to um Mr. Mr. Maloney as

06:01well as any other organizations and and

06:04the recreation committee to be able to

06:05explain next month to give time to

06:07prepare for next month having a very

06:09in-depth discussion um to be able to

06:11address uh all of Mr. Maloney's points,

06:14all of the lacrosse interest points and

06:16and everyone else. But I'll just go

06:18through a list here of kind of a a

06:20framework that I'm hoping to achieve

06:22between now and next month's um

06:26recreation committee meeting. uh

06:28understanding that there's a lot of

06:30competing interests that again I'm still

06:32trying to wrap my head around uh all the

06:34needs uh you know I think we we know

06:37there's a general we all wish there was

06:38more fields there was more recreation

06:40facilities you know there's making we're

06:41making some progress on that but the

06:43demand far exceeds what we have in the

06:46city right now so that's very

06:47challenging for the recreation um

06:50department to manage all that um so th

06:55this issue is as I've learned um talking

06:58to Robin is much more than just rugby

07:00versus lacrosse. It's it's balancing all

07:02the broader interests um with the

07:05Stanley uh coach Stanley Chism Park as

07:07well as all the other all the other

07:08fields

07:10um such as the College of Charleston,

07:12the Citadel um three different high

07:15schools, Wando, Lucy Beckham and

07:17Oceanside Collegiate,

07:19West Ashley, anticipated fall 2026

07:22usage, uh Charleston Youth Rugby, uh

07:26Blockade.

07:28So there's a lot that you're all trying

07:29to balance and I I fully rec recognize

07:31that and I'm trying to uh make sure that

07:33on October we can fully articulate all

07:35that you're trying to manage. So it

07:37doesn't appear to Mr. Maloney or any

07:39other interest that we're not giving

07:42them due diligence and fully, you know,

07:45um

07:46processing their their their uh

07:49requests. So that makes sense. Um

07:53there was a uh cusabo, is that right?

07:56That's how you say it. do um as a

07:58precedent um that no longer is in place

08:01and I'll allow you if you want to to

08:03talk about that now or next month, but

08:06there's some lessons learned from that

08:07experience. So just because the city had

08:10an MOU with another organization in the

08:11past doesn't mean that that's now a new

08:13precedent and in fact it may not have

08:15gone as as well as as was advertised

08:17when thatou was put in place.

08:21Um yes sir, go ahead.

08:23>> Yeah. Um it it did not go well. It was

08:26an experiment, a trial and didn't work.

08:30And I think it's important to note that

08:33this is not just an issue with Stanley

08:36Chisum, which is a very popular field,

08:38but probably one of the least used

08:41fields that we have. We have a lot of

08:44recreational fields. We have a ton of

08:49people, organizations very reputable,

08:52very compelling in their arguments,

08:55um, very passionate about their product

09:00that are always asking us to use our

09:05facilities and we want to let them, but

09:08we cannot lock in with any one group. I

09:13mean, it is proven to be an extreme

09:16problem. It sets a very dangerous

09:18precedent. Even one park, well, then

09:21you're going to have these seven people

09:23over here that want to use the park on

09:25John's Island saying, "Well, you did it

09:27there. Why won't you do it here?" And

09:30they're different circumstances for

09:32every field. Um, but bottom line is what

09:35is very consistent across all of it is

09:39that they're over booked.

09:42And so we sympathize and we understand

09:45the frustrations of these groups that

09:48come back time and time again and and

09:50don't want to hear that we cannot

09:52accommodate them. Um but the reality of

09:56it is we we have to be judicious. We

09:59have to be equitable. We cannot pick

10:01favorites one over the other. Not

10:04everybody's going to get it exactly the

10:06way they want it. And um I I I do give

10:12real accolades to staff for doing the

10:16best that they can. And it's not just

10:19scheduling. I want to be clear on this

10:20too. We have Beth and the Capital

10:23Projects team here as well. It's a huge

10:26amount of wear and tear on our fields.

10:29And I assure you, we do not get the

10:32money back in the fees that we charge.

10:36It costs us. And again, that's what

10:38they're there for. I get it. We want to

10:40use them as much as possible. And

10:42there's never a right balance on use

10:45versus wear and tear versus um getting

10:49everybody uh on the schedule that that

10:51wants to be on the schedule. But um you

10:55know I think we need to be very careful

10:58when we start zeroing in on one park or

11:02another park and a specific effort here

11:04and a specific effort there because

11:07it'll take that

11:09um already delicate balance and potent

11:12potentially just put it upside down in a

11:15ditch. So

11:19>> yeah, thank you chairman and I agree

11:21with the mayor. Um few years ago when I

11:24was chairing this, we had a similar

11:26situation except it was club soccer that

11:29was really coming at us hard saying you

11:31you need to give us some facilities. You

11:33need to give us some facilities. These

11:34are kids that live and in the city of

11:37Charleston, they just choose to play at

11:38a different level and we don't have the

11:40fields to accommodate them and so we

11:42need the city to help. So it it is more

11:45than more than rugby and lacrosse.

11:47There's other outside groups as as well

11:50um that that are asking for this and

11:52have asked in the past.

11:56>> Yeah. And one uh was sat next to Robin

11:59Cooper last week when you you all came

12:01down to uh John's Allen to talk about

12:03the recreation center. We had some time

12:05to talk afterwards and she gave a

12:07perspective that I hadn't thought of is

12:09that you know these city fields and

12:11facilities are for city residents

12:13primarily. That's obviously that's what

12:15it should be for. Allowing a group to

12:18come in and play teams from other areas

12:20and that kind of thing is cool. I think

12:22it's cool. It's having a rugby

12:23tournament in in Charleston would be

12:25awesome, but that's not the primary use

12:27of our fields. And I so I understand

12:29that perspective. I'm speaking for you

12:31here. You can correct me if I'm wrong,

12:33but uh so I'm not I'm not preloading a

12:36decision on this. I just want to kind of

12:37get it out there in the ether as to what

12:40a a bigger perspective on what the

12:41considerations are. And I think and

12:43hopefully in October we'll be able to

12:44kind of show with lists of all the

12:48community demands and interests and then

12:49all the fields related to this topic so

12:52the public has a better understanding of

12:54how challenging it is for you all to

12:55manage all the unbelievable demand on

12:58these fields and if there's any way to

13:00compromise that is beneficial to the

13:02city of Charleston then we'll talk about

13:03it but I don't want to steer either way.

13:06Go ahead.

13:06>> I think just one f last point Mr.

13:08chairman, if you will, is that I I do

13:10think it's also will be good to again

13:14highlight all of the nuances, all of the

13:17details, all of the logistics that staff

13:19deals with so that when you have those

13:22frustrated teams and players and

13:24parents,

13:25um these folks often take the brunt of

13:29it like and and and we owe it to our

13:34staff to I guess educate people and to

13:39make sure that they know that, you know,

13:42the staff would love to h let you have

13:45your game there, but you know, they're

13:48not going to pick and choose winners and

13:50losers here, and that's not their job,

13:53and and we cannot put them in an unfair

13:55position. So, u I think it's going to be

14:00important for let let people know. Um,

14:02and then, you know, I think we may want

14:05to look at looking at, you know, just

14:08making it very clear to the public writ

14:10large that this is not an option. I

14:13mean, if that's what we determine. Um,

14:16so, uh, I I'll I look forward to next

14:20next next month. Thank you, Mr.

14:23>> One quick comment and I'll turn on Mr.

14:25Sheileely. Um and to with all that

14:28demand and all those competing

14:30interests, my understanding is you guys

14:33have not denied Mr. Maloney

14:34>> correct

14:36>> any of the permit any of the requests

14:37that they've asked for. They they've

14:39done it. I think one of his desires is

14:42to have more of kind of long-term locked

14:44in agreement and I and I get that and

14:46we'll talk about that next next month.

14:48But to be fair, more than fair to you

14:50all because you've earned it is that you

14:51it's not that you've denied anything.

14:53It's so I I get that. Mr. Go ahead.

14:56>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I mean, a

14:57couple of things that we had discussed a

14:59few years ago when these things were

15:01coming up were as we try to improve

15:04fields, we take a look at artificial

15:06turf so that there's you you don't have

15:10the the maintenance that um that you

15:12have on the natural turf. Um and I used

15:14to be against artificial turf, but

15:16they've come a long way with with

15:17artificial turf and what they can do.

15:19you see Mount Pleasant and other

15:21municipalities now putting in artificial

15:23turf so that they can get more use out

15:25of those fields. Um, and the other thing

15:27that we've discussed in this committee

15:29is lights as well, you know, on on those

15:31fields. So, I mean, that's a couple of

15:33things that are long range that can

15:35really help this problem down the road.

15:40>> I want to turn over to this to the staff

15:42if you guys have any comments on on this

15:44going into this.

15:48I would just note that the issue isn't

15:50just the field itself, but it's the

15:52other improvements that go along with

15:53the field. Uh lack of sewer, lack of

15:56water that's to the field. So

15:58improvements need to be made if the

16:00route is to program this heavier than

16:03what we're doing right now. So we have

16:05temporary uh restrooms out there. We

16:07have portallettes that we pay for. We

16:10being the city, not capital projects. Uh

16:12we would have to do improved parking and

16:14other things. So in addition to the

16:16lights, the field itself, there'd be

16:17other structural improvements that would

16:19need to be made

16:20>> and pick up the garbage more freely.

16:22Like again, the more these things are

16:24there's just other

16:27consequences that are very relevant for

16:30the operation. But again, I want to be

16:31on record of saying we want them used as

16:34much as possible, but we have to balance

16:38it between all these other competing

16:40interests and uh and our capacity to to

16:44service them.

16:47>> Yeah. And I think everybody's hit on all

16:50the points and you know, we we do the

16:52best we can to give everybody something.

16:54I have for the most part been able to

16:56give everybody something of what they

16:59need. If somebody, you know, baseball

17:00team comes in and says, "I want four

17:01nights a week, 6:00." I'm not going to

17:03be able to give somebody four nights a

17:04week at 6:00. I can give you two nights

17:06a week at 5:00 and then somebody can

17:07come in at 7. Um, you know, depending

17:10again, as Mr. Sheileley said, the light

17:12situation, we just don't have enough

17:14fields with lights in a week or two.

17:16We're dead in the water. Um, you know,

17:18and we lost just lost another field um

17:21with McMahon. So now everything I've got

17:23programmed at McMahon now has to land on

17:25Harmon. So, I've got youth flag

17:28football, youth soccer, adult flag

17:30football, adult soccer, tackle football,

17:34um ultimate frisbee, and adult flag

17:36football all on really two fields, but

17:41we make them four. So, I mean, I've got

17:44a soccer field on top of a flag football

17:46field next to a flag football field next

17:48to a flag football field. Um, you know,

17:50parking becomes an issue as well. You

17:53know, we're Thank goodness Burke's right

17:54there because we can use Burke. So, it's

17:56parking, it's staffing, it's opening,

17:58it's closing, it's turning lights on,

17:59turning lights off. Lights at Chisel are

18:02going to be great. But if I have to now

18:03send a staff person down to turn lights

18:05on and turn lights off, then I'm having

18:07to charge that customer for that because

18:09we're not, you know, that's probably not

18:11a place that we will put a permanent

18:12staff person. Um, you know, John's

18:15Island's great. I got three fields. All

18:17three are being rented. Two of them I

18:19can do on a phone app. The third one, I

18:21have to send somebody out there to turn

18:22lights off and then send somebody out

18:24there to turn lights on. Mr. McBride

18:26lives on John's Island. Might give you a

18:28part-time job. [laughter]

18:29>> Yeah.

18:31>> Um, you know, so those are all things

18:33that staffing and that rest. We we give

18:35our fields no rest. No rest. And you

18:39know, Chisum is a little bit different.

18:40That's not our greatest turf field.

18:42We're not putting the money into it in

18:44the past just because of the nature of

18:46the field. There is no water. There is

18:48no irrigation. where we can't put

18:49fertilizer down because they can't water

18:50it in. So, um, you know, there's

18:53different levels. So, we have those

18:54satellite fields and Chisum is great

18:57that we're able to give, you know,

18:59Rugby, we've got, I think, eight permits

19:01scheduled. You know, Mr. Maloney has

19:03four and I think there's three or four

19:04other permits already scheduled out for

19:06for a hall for the fall. Um, you know,

19:09but again, in next week, two weeks from

19:11now, that feels no good. Come five

19:13o'clock in the afternoon. It's only good

19:15on Saturdays and Sundays.

19:17I just want to again say too that

19:20this is not a knock on any of the

19:21organizations, but M. Maloney, I think

19:24they take care of it. They they are good

19:26stewards of the of the field. I'm not,

19:29you know, in any way trying to suggest

19:30when I mention trash or anything like

19:32that that any of these folks um don't

19:35care about the fields or aren't good

19:36stewards. But, you know, just the

19:38reality of it is to to Robin's point,

19:40there's just a lot more that goes into

19:42it than uh the scheduling alone.

19:47Yeah, definitely. There's 25 people that

19:49I can just probably name right off the

19:51top that would get in line and say,

19:53"Okay, I want mine, too."

19:56>> So, a lot was said. My again, my goal in

19:58October is to is to be able to show this

20:00so it's it's crystal clear to everybody

20:01what all the things you're trying to

20:02balance, and we're not trying to be

20:03prejuditial against or for anybody.

20:05We're trying to be as fair as as can be.

20:07And just again in my limited experience,

20:10there's so much information that you all

20:11have, it's impossible to, you know, even

20:13if you just listed off a whole bunch of

20:14organizations that I'll forget 10

20:16minutes after I walk out of here. So, I

20:17think having it visually to kind of make

20:19it clear for everybody will help help

20:21the public a lot.

20:25>> Any comments from anyone else on the

20:26committee?

20:33>> All right. Uh hearing none. Everyone

20:35okay to return? We'll go and adjourn.

20:38Thanks everybody. Thank you.

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