2026-10-13 - Committee on Ordinances

00:00All right. Good evening everyone and

00:01welcome to committee on ordinance.

00:04The time is it's uh 5:48

00:08and today is October 13, 2026. Thank you

00:11all for being here. Uh especially to our

00:15city solicitor and to all our council

00:17members and to everyone that's here uh

00:19before us. Uh madame clerk, could you

00:22please call the role?

00:24>> Chairman Espino,

00:25>> present.

00:26>> Vice Chairwoman Peterson,

00:28>> present. Councilwoman Harris,

00:32>> Councilman Vargas,

00:34>> Councelor Royas,

00:36>> present,

00:36>> five present, no absent. You have a

00:38quorum.

00:40>> Thank you so much. Uh, I'll entertain a

00:42motion to take an item out of order.

00:47Motion is made by Councilman Vas, second

00:50by Council Peterson. All in favor? I

00:52>> oppose. The eyes have it. Thank you. Uh,

00:55madame clerk, item number two, please.

00:58Item two, petition from Jeffrey Mark

01:01Aet, owner of JC131 Realy LLC and

01:05president of EW A and Sons Inc.

01:08requesting to change the official zoning

01:10map of the city of Providence by

01:13changing the zoning district from

01:14various property from M-MU

01:18to M-1 and to change the language in

01:21section 1202.8

01:23of the zoning ordinance to add

01:26subsection 4 to as follow. A storage

01:29containers may be used for permanent

01:32storage. A storage container should not

01:34be stuck on on the site.

01:38>> Thank you, madame clerk. Uh I entered a

01:40motion to enter into the record

01:43additional testimonies that was

01:44received.

01:46>> Motion made by Councilman Peterson,

01:48second by Council Ba. All in favor? I

01:51oppose. The eyes have it. Okay. So the

01:53reason why I took this item out of order

01:55is because I know we have

01:56representatives here but uh this item

01:59has been requested to be continue and we

02:02are going to grant that. Uh yes sir.

02:08>> Absolutely.

02:14>> Can you state your name uh for the

02:16record?

02:19>> Attorney Dana Ardente for the applicant

02:21in this matter. Uh, council president, I

02:23would respectfully request uh that this

02:25matter not be continued. Uh, it was

02:27brought to my attention that the

02:28continuence was occurring probably about

02:31two hours or so ago. Um, there's no

02:33reason why this matter can't be heard

02:35tonight. All opposition has been

02:36submitted. Um, I believe the reason uh

02:39stated for why the continuence is

02:41occurring is that we as the applicant

02:43have not yet met with the abutters who

02:45presented testimony. Um, with all due

02:47respect to the council, that's what the

02:49purpose of public comment is during the

02:51council meeting. We'd be happy to

02:52address those uttered uh objections

02:55tonight and we're fully prepared to do

02:57so. Well, the request has been made by

02:59Councilwoman Harris who represent the

03:01area and we're prepared to grant that.

03:04Uh, Councilwoman Harris, would you like

03:05to respond to that?

03:17Is that okay? Thank you.

03:20I did speak to someone from the company

03:23and because of that area in the redist I

03:27ended up with most of that area there

03:30and within that area especially near the

03:34port in that area there there's a lot of

03:36concerns from the neighbors with quality

03:39air the quality of the air toxic you

03:42know waste and all that not that your

03:45company the company is a bad company or

03:48not that that company isn't important

03:50for our community. I respect the fact

03:53that this company has been around for

03:55many many years and we do respect and

03:58understand business and we want to be

04:00able to work very closely with business.

04:03But then when it comes to the neighbors

04:04and the concerns and the fears of the

04:06neighbors, we very much would like to

04:10respect the neighbors. I did ask the

04:12company to please uh get with some of

04:15your neighbors to be able to explain

04:17what you're doing there. And sometime

04:19that changes the dynamics. I've asked

04:21that a lot of times in in my

04:23neighborhood, especially in Ward 11, the

04:25neighborhood that I represent, people

04:28sometime gets very uh concerned

04:32about things that's changing in their

04:34own neighborhood and they have no

04:35control over it. They bring it to us and

04:38we have to balance it. I'm not saying

04:41that this is not going to go forward. I

04:45think you may be concerned probably you

04:48have to go back to court. I understand

04:50that. Right.

04:51>> Say that one more time.

04:52>> Do you have to go back to housing court?

04:55>> No,

04:55>> you don't. Okay. Um, I would like to

04:59have an opportunity to see a little bit

05:01more um, behavior of good neighbors in

05:06that neighborhood, which means that your

05:09neighbors that live round and about

05:12could understand exactly what's going

05:14on. And a better way they can understand

05:16is not from the council. And a lot of

05:19times they won't come out here, but they

05:21will push back on issues. And that has

05:24been the the just Since I took seat 12

05:28years ago, that has been the way award

05:3211 usually operate because of nothing to

05:37do with you, past history of how things

05:41have been just uh

05:45passed through the city without

05:47neighbors even having an understanding

05:49what's going on. I've asked that you be

05:52a good neighbor and try to get the the

05:55neighbors to understand that there is

05:56not going to be um

06:00over you know um the traffic that they

06:04complain about or toxic containers or or

06:07any of those things that they have

06:09complained to us about. And I understand

06:12the concerns. Uh, Miss Harris, I I

06:15think, however, in this case,

06:18the petition has been open through the

06:20summer and I believe in the summertime,

06:23so we're talking July or and August,

06:25there had been two objectors that had

06:27submitted objections, but a week prior

06:30or two weeks prior to the September

06:31meeting, I think three or four more

06:33objectors rolled in. So the purpose of

06:36these council meetings is so that

06:37objectors can come and voice their

06:39opinions and we can address those on the

06:41record. It becomes very difficult to

06:44near impossible to address each

06:46individual objector uh petition

06:50especially when they're coming in last

06:51minute. Right. And one of the issues

06:53too, and I just wanted to touch on

06:55something uh councilwoman Harris had had

06:57stated to try and see if we can work

06:59something out here, is that um I had

07:03offered a site visit for Miss uh the

07:05council woman to come to and see if we

07:07could uh work out, you know, something

07:10with the objectors to make everybody

07:11satisfied. That was back in in July. And

07:15I'm sure Councilwoman Harris is a very

07:17is a very busy woman. But uh you know,

07:20we have the applicant here tonight. We

07:22have me here tonight. He's they've been

07:24incurring my fees in order to come back

07:26and forth to this. They've incurred

07:28frustrations, too. And additionally, any

07:31concerns that the objectors might have

07:33regarding pollution, storage of toxic

07:35materials, or anything of that nature

07:37can be addressed tonight on the record,

07:39and we're prepared to address that as

07:40well. Um

07:43meeting with objectors prior to a

07:46petition uh and the hearing on before

07:48the actual ordinance committee is not

07:50grounds for a continuence. I understand

07:52that continuances are granted pretty

07:54liberally. Um but this has already been

07:56continued once. So now this is getting

07:59down to the prejudice of the applicant.

08:02>> The the uh reason why we continue it is

08:07because we appreciate your business, the

08:10business that you represent. Uh we

08:13appreciate the fact that they're in

08:14Providence and we're trying to

08:17accommodate this petition, but we also

08:20need to accommodate the needs of the

08:22community. So we're trying to find

08:24balanced. We don't just want to rush

08:26into a decision uh which

08:30might not be favorable to you or might

08:32not be favorable to the community. So I

08:35I rather take another 30 days than to

08:38make a ruling here that might not be

08:40favorable to you. So it it's all good

08:43for us to have an additional three or

08:45four weeks.

08:46>> And I understand that and I'm not trying

08:48to reverse the council's decision. What

08:50I want to do right now is first off ask

08:54the question as to what

08:55>> it's going to be continued to a date

08:57that is certain. So you'll leave here

08:59tonight knowing exactly what day you'll

09:02be coming back and at that time we will

09:04be making a decision on this.

09:06>> Understood. But I I want to make sure

09:08that it's not going to be continued

09:09again based on failure to meet with the

09:11objectors. And we're happy to meet with

09:12any objectors.

09:13>> I I understand that. But but believe me,

09:15on I'll tell you right now, it's going

09:18to get continued to November 9th at

09:205:30. And on that day, we will be making

09:23a decision.

09:24>> Understood.

09:25>> So it's it's will no longer be

09:27continued.

09:28>> Understood.

09:29>> All right.

09:29>> Thank you.

09:30>> Well, thank you so much.

09:33All right. So

09:35with that said, I'd entertain a motion

09:37to continue to a date that is certain

09:40which is November 9 at 5:30.

09:44>> So moved

09:44>> made by councelor Peterson.

09:46>> Second.

09:46>> Second by council member Vag. All in

09:48favor I oppose the eyes. So this item is

09:51continued to November 9 at 5:30.

09:55>> Madame clerk uh item number one please.

09:59Item one, petition from Dylan Conley

10:01Squire, Rhode Island, land use law of

10:04123 D Street, sweet 3B, Providence,

10:07Rhode Island 02903, requesting an

10:10amendment to the official zoning

10:12ordinance of the city of Providence by

10:14adding a new subsection to the text of

10:1820005 section F, billboard removal

10:22inventive.

10:24>> Thank you.

10:27All right. So, this is an item that we

10:28have had also for quite some time and

10:32it's been back and forth.

10:34Uh,

10:36I don't know if anybody signed up to

10:38speak on this. Uh, city sergeant, do we

10:41have anyone that signed up on item

10:43number one?

11:07Uh, Mr. Ron Crossen, please,

11:22>> Chairman, members of the committee.

11:24Thank you. uh for this hearing. And just

11:26following up, I just wanted to come in

11:27and just re um you know, thank you for

11:30the comments that were made at the end

11:32of the last meeting uh for continuing

11:35this uh especially made by uh Councilman

11:39Royas who indicated that um the work of

11:44the committee in digging into this and

11:46really understanding before it gets sent

11:47to the general counsel or the I should

11:51say the larger council uh is an

11:53important consideration. Uh, in addition

11:56to that, I I noted that Councilwoman

11:58Peterson uh you had um some questions

12:03uh that um I believe hopefully have been

12:06answered for you uh and the rest of the

12:08committee. Um one of the things that was

12:11brought up at the last meeting was

12:14concern about what the impact would be

12:16on community and the fact that that data

12:20had not been readily provided or was not

12:23available. So, I'm hoping that the

12:25committee has received that in the me

12:26interim and if not, um, you know, would

12:30would base your decision based on on

12:33that information. Councilwoman Harris,

12:35good to see you again. All right. And,

12:37uh, Councilman Vargas, thank you so

12:39much.

12:40>> Thank you.

12:44Uh, Linda Perry. And before Linda, I'll

12:48entertain a motion to enter into the

12:50record additional testimonies that were

12:52received.

12:54>> Motion is made by Council Peterson and

12:56second by Counc. All in favor? I oppose.

12:58The eyes have it. Thank you. Good

13:00evening, Linda.

13:02>> Good evening.

13:04My name is Linda Perry and I live in

13:07Ward 10 and I'm writing while I'm

13:12speaking about the uh billboard issue

13:16which is somehow resurrected

13:19again five years later after I thought

13:23it was put to bed but it's not.

13:27Um, you have all seen the picture of the

13:34electric billboard with two three family

13:37homes on either side that is on Elmwood

13:41on Cadillac Drive within a 100 ft

13:47that was presented at the last five

13:50years ago at council.

13:53The signs, the pictures, I think a

13:56picture is worth thousand words.

13:59You have received testimony from Scenic

14:03America, from various other people that

14:06are opposed to it for different reasons.

14:10I'm hoping that you all have read that.

14:14And in addition to what Ron just

14:18mentioned,

14:19the impact on the community is

14:23paramount.

14:26more so than the profits of one

14:31Louisiana company, which is a monopoly,

14:34and you know that. So, without beating a

14:39dead horse,

14:41I'm going to leave it at that. We're

14:43opposed to

14:46electronic billboards in Providence as

14:49well as

14:51Roger Williams Park.

14:54And now that DOT mowed down all the

14:56trees on either side of the park, that

15:01glow

15:02will happen.

15:05And

15:08well,

15:10you know how I feel in everybody.

15:14Thank you.

15:15>> Thank you, Linda.

15:20>> Has anybody else signed up to speak on

15:22item number one?

15:27Uh, it doesn't appear that way.

15:47>> Mr. Conley

15:55Conley on behalf of the applicant. Um,

15:58and I have with me the applicant

16:00themselves. Did you guys

16:03>> Mike Murphy?

16:05>> Good evening.

16:06>> Matt run into your real estate manager.

16:09>> Good evening.

16:11So, uh, the first thing I regrettably

16:16need to do, but it's just sort of been

16:18like the story of this project is, um,

16:21the billboard that was identified as the

16:24billboard that we're proposing to

16:26convert there images outside

16:29is is not the billboard.

16:32Uh, we are not looking to

16:35digitize a billboard anywhere near

16:37residential zone. In fact, the ordinance

16:39itself cares for that. But the best I

16:43can do for you live is to sort of show

16:47you

16:52>> if you're on 95 North.

16:53>> You want to come up a little bit? Thank

16:55you.

17:11Uh the billboard looks over the Rhode

17:13Island Energy Facility so you can see

17:15just how industrial that space is. We

17:18are not near the uh three family homes

17:22in the other image. I can that billboard

17:24is about over here on the map, but

17:27that's not the billboard that we're

17:28looking to digitize. I think that's

17:30important. That's important context and

17:32uh I appreciate the mic.

17:37>> Thank you

17:42before was what uh what the billboard

17:46removals might look like. So we

17:48submitted in advance

17:50>> uh a draft set of removals.

17:53>> Now the way these removals work is we

17:56usually have a lease associated with

17:58each billboard. So, we don't have

17:59unilateral control of which billboards

18:01we can take down when, but if we would

18:03be able to proceed in the near future,

18:06the leases that would be up uh and that

18:09we would likely take down are these

18:13addresses. You can see the square

18:15footage. You can see the square footage

18:16total. And we have the map as well. uh

18:20from a counselor ward perspective which

18:23was a point of interest at the previous

18:25meeting. I think somewhat interestingly

18:28the ward lines follow main commercial

18:31drags right main commercial roads. So

18:33you see that the billboards that we're

18:35looking to remove commonly fall on the

18:37border between a couple of wards. Uh so

18:40some of the wards that we've identified

18:43in our sheet the actual billboard might

18:46be in the adjacent ward. Uh but

18:48certainly each ward would have a benefit

18:51from those removals. Uh we provided the

18:54square footage in those locations to be

18:56illustrative. That's what the process

18:57would look like. Uh and I'm very happy

19:00to answer any questions about

19:03uh sort of the detailed history here. Uh

19:07in in the past, we've provided

19:09exhaustive materials on uh health and

19:12safety impacts. Uh quite frankly, I

19:15think that tends to get a little bit

19:16beyond the point. I think there's two

19:18primary points I want to make on that

19:20front. The first is state law is very

19:24highly regulatory when it comes to the

19:26safety of these images. It's a still

19:28image still image. There's no moving.

19:31There's no flashing. The way the

19:33lighting works is there's no glare. So,

19:36the lighting is actually more focused at

19:38the highway than what a standard vinyl

19:40billboard is. Vinyl billboard doesn't

19:43produce its own light. You shine light

19:45onto it. So when you're shining light

19:47onto vinyl, it reflects out, right? So

19:49the the light that these vinyl signs

19:51cast is greater in area. So you you

19:56probably have noticed it when you've

19:57driven past a digital billboard, how as

19:59you're going past it, it seems to go

20:01dark to your line of sight. That's

20:03because of how the lighting works. It's

20:05shielding, right? So if you're outside

20:07of the visual cone, there's no light at

20:09all. That's distinct from a current uh

20:12vinyl billboard.

20:14The other uh item that I think is

20:16relevant to safety is

20:19there is always a conversation about

20:21whether or not billboards are inherently

20:23unsafe.

20:25It gets lost in this debate that we are

20:28not looking to add a single billboard.

20:31No new billboards. We're taking one

20:33existing billboard and taking a vinyl

20:36face and turning it into a digital face.

20:38So, we're reducing sort of the light

20:40noise, if you will, from that billboard.

20:43Uh, and removing

20:47a list something like this.

20:51So to the extent that anyone argues that

20:54a billboard is an unsafe condition for

20:57some reason or another, that is proof

20:59positive that they should support this

21:01ordinance because we are removing

21:03billboards as a result of this

21:05ordinance. So, moving this ordinance

21:08forward gives us a chance to take

21:10billboards down and I think that's a a

21:13strong value point especially in the

21:16neighborhood locations outside of the

21:17highway which is where the removals come

21:19from. But I do have the Lamar team here

21:22if there was any other specific or more

21:25detailed questions that this uh

21:27committee wanted us to respond to.

21:30>> Thank you. Thank you so much. I believe

21:32Councilwoman Peterson has a question.

21:35Go ahead, Councilwoman.

21:37>> Thank you very much, and I appreciate

21:39you all being here. Um, I appreciate you

21:42giving us a list of the takedown of um

21:47the

21:49standalone or the vinyl uh billboards

21:52that are throughout the city. Um, I do

21:54want to point out that the takedown of

21:56all of these would encompass eight

21:58different wards. um not mine,

22:03but nevertheless, it's eight wards. Um

22:06so I I do want to thank you for that

22:08information. Um what I would like

22:11though, and this is maybe it might be a

22:13question for Lamar specifically, is um

22:16while I understand that you can't

22:18provide a concrete deadline for the

22:20removal of those, what I am wondering is

22:21like is it going to take us a year, is

22:24it going to take us two years, is it

22:25going to take us three years? because

22:26that all is um I think relevant to the

22:30conversation.

22:31>> So the the process for the application

22:34is just a building permit.

22:35>> Yeah.

22:36>> So if the ordinance is approved, we can

22:38move quickly. We don't go through

22:39another round of hearings.

22:40>> Uh we would be working directly with the

22:43administration.

22:44>> Uh but in terms of construction

22:46timeline, about how long do you think we

22:49are from application to removal?

22:56So out of the 18 locations,

23:01probably 17 will take 90 days.

23:04>> Okay.

23:05>> One of them might take a little longer

23:08due to it would have to be done by a

23:11contractor. I can't do it in house.

23:13>> Understood.

23:14>> Which is the one on the higher one, the

23:17672 ft. It's my hands are tied unless he

23:21can get here.

23:22>> That's understood and I appreciate that.

23:24Um, thank you for answering that

23:26particular question. The other the other

23:28question I have and um

23:32I I want to say I want to preface this

23:34by speaking on the way that I like to

23:38achieve goals that meet what you're

23:40looking for, but also um support the

23:43community in a way that I think is

23:45responsible and also productive. Um, I

23:49feel really strongly that while

23:52ordinances are meant to be updated and

23:54modernized and things, the impact of the

23:56things that we put forward, um, and the

23:59changes that are made are also relevant.

24:01They're relevant to the community.

24:02They're relevant to the people that live

24:03in these communities. Um, and they

24:05should be, um, heard and if there's

24:08feedback um, whenever possible, we

24:11should bring that opportunity forward to

24:13the community because it's relevant to

24:14the needs that they have. Um,

24:18I also understand and and take note that

24:22when there's an opportunity here to

24:25provide an additional community benefit,

24:27I think that we should push at the very

24:30most that we possibly can. And so I feel

24:35really strongly that when businesses

24:38come through for a variety of reasons to

24:40ask for something, I think that we as a

24:42community and as counselors specifically

24:45um should be making asks to benefit our

24:48communities as a whole. And so one of

24:52the questions that I had was if there is

24:55outside of the takedown project, which I

24:57think is also a community is is

24:59beneficial to the community. Um, is

25:02there an opportunity here to provide a

25:05benefit to the community at large? An

25:08example, just throwing something out

25:11there, and I'm putting this

25:12intentionally on record because if this

25:14is an opportunity, um, I I I would love

25:18to hear more about it. Um, having an

25:22opportunity where we have

25:25a wonderful amount of small businesses

25:28in our city. It's the thing that makes

25:31our city tick. It's our what makes our

25:33culture thrive in the city. But we uh we

25:36do have a

25:39issue where some of our small businesses

25:41are lagging and need additional support.

25:43They don't have the means um for a

25:47variety of reasons to dedicate

25:49advertising dollars to making and

25:52they're trying to create jobs but also

25:55maintain and sustain. Um

25:59is there an opportunity in your

26:02advertising to support the community by

26:06hosting some free localized advertising

26:10to our small businesses? Is there

26:12something that you could do in that way

26:14where we could see our small businesses

26:17on these really great big advertising

26:21spaces that they could not actually do

26:23on their own?

26:39>> So in Warwick

26:44multiple towns. Um I'm speaking to a

26:48separate project just a little lower on

26:5095 that uh I I worked on. We have 15

26:54hours a month uh which has uh sort of a

26:59public service announcement and the

27:01municipality requests you know that that

27:05sort of air time for some particular uh

27:08item that they're looking to advertise

27:10and I think that's probably what exists

27:14in in the field and something that is

27:16readily repeatable. Uh something that I

27:18think is supported by the law. Uh I

27:20think it's it also puts the city in

27:22control of what is the community message

27:24and the community debate that it may

27:26want to advertise. Uh so any particular

27:28events

27:30um sort of promotions for something

27:32going on within the city that would be

27:35basically your direction.

27:43[clears throat]

27:43>> Excuse me. If I can just expound a

27:44little bit on that, Dylan had said,

27:46>> um, things like job fairs, things like

27:49community events, um, blood drives, any

27:52of these things, it's not open-ended. or

27:54it's not closed to uh just certain

27:57things uh law enforcement or anything

28:00like that. Is it is anything that the

28:03city or municipality whether it's done

28:05through the community outreach

28:06department or through uh recreation or

28:10through the mayor's office uh it's

28:12typically done as a condition of

28:14approval. Um and 15 hours like as Dylan

28:18said is very standard um not just in the

28:22business but in our region. uh many

28:24towns uh in Massachusetts and in Rhode

28:27Island um take advantage of that time to

28:31uh you know really push and really bring

28:34uh positive uh messages to the

28:36community. And I think one one thing

28:38from last month's uh comments that stuck

28:42with me was, you know, talking about the

28:44creative capital. And one of the first

28:47things that popped into my head was if

28:49we were to utilize, you know, or make a

28:5115-hour agreement or some sort of thing

28:53like that, that could be a showcase for

28:57local artists and uh local creatives to

29:01put those messages out there for the

29:03city. Um, it doesn't have to be AI or

29:06just our company doing it. I mean, we

29:08work with our cities and municipalities

29:11very closely. So, that was another

29:13opportunity I just wanted to uh touch on

29:15real quick.

29:19>> Go ahead.

29:19>> Thank you. I just need to uh seek um I

29:24think a question from our law department

29:27to see if it's something that um

29:32Would it be able to be supported? And do

29:35we need to make an amendment on it? Like

29:36how how does that work?

29:40Does it needs to be added to this? I'm

29:43assuming

29:46>> does it need to be added to the

29:48ordinance?

29:50>> If if you wanted that to be part of the

29:52ordinance, then yes, it would need to be

29:54added to the ordinance. I'm sure that

29:56they would they would be happy to uh I

29:59don't doubt your commitment to the

30:00public, but you know, Well,

30:03>> that would be the important thing to do

30:04would be to add to the ordinance.

30:05>> I think I think uh tonight it's an open

30:08public hearing. I I believe we're still

30:10able to amend the ordinance as it sits

30:12in front of you. And I think we could

30:14just add the clause. Uh u any approved

30:18sign shall

30:20um have 15 hours per month of public

30:24service announcements as directed by the

30:27city.

30:45Sorry, I'm just trying to figure this

30:47out real time. Who would that sit under?

30:49Would that be the planning department

30:50that makes those decisions or the

30:53administration? Like who?

30:55>> The law department.

31:04For what it's worth, my suggestion would

31:05be just leaving at the word city so that

31:07the city can determine on its own. Um

31:13I certainly you could fix it tonight.

31:15>> Well, how how is it in other cities? How

31:18did you work that into it?

31:21So in most towns they just put it in the

31:24ordinance or the permit on condition

31:27that we that the city of Providence

31:31would receive 15 hours of public ser

31:34service announcements on this digital.

31:36Our other digital in Providence which

31:38has been up since ' 07 was not required.

31:41We've added this into this mix. And in

31:44most cities and towns, they make a

31:47decision.

31:49One town, the mayor's department

31:51controls it. Another is the economic

31:53development. There's one person usually

31:56that would contact our office.

31:59We're back and forth constantly with all

32:01these cities and towns, but the initial

32:05pro process is that the 15 hours uh is

32:09put into the ordinance as a condition of

32:12approval and then from that point if

32:15it's approved then we could work with

32:17whomever department in the city whatever

32:20department to move forward here.

32:23>> Thank you.

32:44Mr. Chair,

32:45>> Mr. Azar, please.

32:47>> Yes, Mr. Chair, members of the

32:49committee, uh, Robert Azar, deputy

32:51planning director. Um, I would say if if

32:54you were inclined to to add something

32:57like this, it might be appropriate to

32:59have the city's Department of Arts,

33:01Culture, and Tourism

33:03um be the the uh entity that that is the

33:10liaison to the sign company uh as they

33:14are the ones that oversee

33:16promotional events and and you know,

33:19tourism and art related events. Just a

33:22thought.

33:28>> Uh, Nicholas, solicitor, I would simply

33:30also suggest you could consider Puma.

33:33It's another option.

33:43>> That's my Roy, please.

33:46>> Thank you. Uh just a I don't know if

33:50this is a question for you Dylan or for

33:52uh the committee or for I guess I'll

33:54just ask this out loud. Um I really do

33:57appreciate you sending the list by the

33:59way. Um

34:02and I really appreciate hearing that

34:05looks like 18 signs could be taken could

34:08be taken down

34:10um in the city.

34:13I want to be sure that

34:16uh it's not just sort of a commitment,

34:20but it's it has some teeth to it. I know

34:23it would be probably overly prescriptive

34:26uh to try to get a specific time uh as

34:32councelor Peterson was saying, a

34:34timeline on these, but could we get a

34:38commitment in writing where we would put

34:41the number 18

34:43I don't know if that belongs in

34:44ordinance or something that is a bit

34:47more set in stone so that even if it

34:50takes two years for 18 signs to come

34:53down that we can be assured as a city

34:55that 18 would come down.

34:58>> No objection to adding a line that says

35:01a minimum of 18 signs must come down.

35:04And I will say that the the way the

35:06ordinance is constructed, the signs have

35:08to come down before it can become

35:11digital. So the the community will see

35:14the benefit of sign removal before we

35:17even begin the digital conversion.

35:20>> Perfect. And could I just ask one more

35:22question?

35:23>> Thank you, chair. I know the um I just

35:26want to get some clarity as a committee

35:30on if we are moving forward with the

35:33CPC's

35:3410 to1 ratio their recommendation in

35:38terms of the amendment. I think that was

35:40mentioned

35:42uh at the last meeting by Mr. Aar.

35:45>> We are we are requesting it stay at the

35:48uh original 2:1 ratio. The 2:1 is what

35:52represents the 18 signs. Uh, no.

35:59I apologize.

36:02More generous than I understood. You're

36:05looking at a 5 to1 ratio. You're looking

36:07at a commitment to more than double our

36:09original application in terms of

36:11removals.

36:13>> So, so what was what would that ratio

36:14be?

36:14>> This is a 5 to1 ratio.

36:16>> 5 to1.

36:28Council,

36:37>> sorry, I'm just uh processing that in my

36:39mind. Um,

36:41>> time.

36:42>> Yeah, let me let me loop back with a

36:44question.

36:52>> He does not.

36:55I I'm trying to map out what how that

36:58looks in practice from 5 to one compared

37:01to a 10 to one. Um and forgive me as I

37:05try to

37:07um think about this in real time.

37:11>> If I may counselor, it doesn't I don't

37:13know that it directly addresses your

37:14question. I don't know that 10 to one is

37:18possible for us.

37:21uh the amount of signs that that

37:23represents within a Providence is a

37:27pretty small footprint of a municipality

37:28in terms of total square miles, right?

37:31You go outside of Providence,

37:32municipalities get much larger, they

37:34have more highway, they have more

37:35signage. So, when we talk about the

37:38square footage being removed in one

37:40municipality versus another, it's really

37:42the percentage of signs, the percentage

37:44of square footage that you that you

37:46have, right? So a 10 to1 ratio in

37:49Providence is likely nonviable for us.

37:53We would probably just keep all the

37:54vinyl signs in place as is.

37:57>> Can you just elaborate on

38:01apologize if you were begin to say that,

38:03but why would it be viable?

38:05>> Sure. So it's the difference in cost. It

38:10is the number of leases that we have. We

38:12don't even necessarily have permission

38:14to take down all of our signs. So the

38:17runway to get to that amount of signs

38:19inside of Providence, this already

38:21represents, I believe, the removal of

38:23every single junior poster in the city,

38:25right? So at 5:1, we're completely

38:29eliminating one type of sign. Uh and

38:33basically the the amount of removal

38:36exceeds any interest we have relative to

38:39the digital conversion. So that I didn't

38:43I apologize that I did not bring

38:44attention to the five to one because I

38:47did not think five to one was viable

38:49based on my earlier conversations with

38:51my client

38:55>> Peterson.

38:57>> Sorry, I just wanted to make sure that

38:59um deputy director uh AAR had an

39:02opportunity to weigh in.

39:06>> Thank you, counselor. Um so that was

39:10news to me that that this table

39:13represented 5 to one. Um

39:17I [clears throat] would I would say that

39:20I I represented to you the position of

39:23the CPC uh that the removal rate should

39:27be 10 to one. So that that

39:31recommendation stands. Um, the only

39:34thing I want to point out to you is that

39:36uh I believe what's in your packet

39:40um on page nine and 10 is the

39:46substitution that you uh voted on last

39:50time. and that currently has all of the

39:55recommendations that were in the CPC's

39:58uh letter to you slightly reorganized,

40:01but they're all in there. but for that

40:05take down number. So you just want to

40:07make sure that if you are inclined to

40:11change that uh in paragraph G

40:16uh lowercase I

40:19uh or I guess ro Roman one. Um you want

40:23to make sure that you you uh further

40:26amend that before uh voting on it

40:28tonight.

40:39So, I think that brings our

40:42additional commitments this evening to a

40:44minimum of 18, a 5:1 ratio plus 15 hours

40:49of public service announcements.

40:52Uh, that's what's above and beyond what

40:54our initial application was.

40:58uh including all of the amendments

41:00requested by the CPC save the uh the one

41:04ratio change.

41:06Uh to the extent that it fills in sort

41:10of the community benefit, I do want to I

41:12do believe it's worth reiterating that

41:14we automatically on the digital

41:15billboards advertise things like Amber

41:18Amber alerts, FBI alerts, those sorts of

41:21things because we have the ability to

41:22change those live. So we do believe that

41:25that has a community benefit because of

41:26the instantaneous nature of critical

41:28information.

41:40>> Council Roy please.

41:42>> Thank you chair. Uh maybe just for Mr.

41:45Aar uh do you know where the CBC

41:50how they arrived to the 10 to1 ratio?

41:52like what's the

41:55quantitative

41:57calcula empirical calculation or is that

42:00something they just I don't want to say

42:03they came out came with got it from out

42:06of thin air but how did they arrive to

42:08that

42:08>> right uh that came from uh our staff we

42:12did some research of ordinances around

42:15the country uh and um interestingly

42:20since the last time that this was

42:22introduced to the council. There have

42:25been a number of ordinances that have

42:27passed. This seems to be kind of a

42:30standard practice

42:32uh um in the billboard industry where

42:36they're look the the billboard owners

42:38are looking to um replace the static

42:42faces with these digital signs and it

42:45has become sort of a standard practice

42:48uh in communities across the country to

42:51kind of negotiate this takeown ratio and

42:54it varies from town to town, city to

42:57city, county the county. Uh, and we saw

43:00numbers as high as 13 to1. Uh, and we

43:03felt that that we should drive a hard

43:06bargain here in Providence and and 10 to

43:09one felt like a like a good number.

43:13>> If I may,

43:14>> I have a I have a follow up on that for

43:16Bob.

43:19>> So, you said different cities, different

43:21communities throughout the country.

43:24Um, are they the size of Providence? Are

43:26they comparable with it comes to the

43:29population to the number of signage?

43:32>> Uh, good question. I don't have that

43:35information

43:36>> because I

43:38I I would think that the 10 to one or 13

43:42to one the size of the city the number

43:46of signage will have an impact on that.

43:48So I I kind of like

43:50>> Well, I I would say that that you know

43:53they are showing you um I apologize. Is

43:56it is it eight how many signs on this 18

44:00signs?

44:02There are many multiples of 18 uh

44:06billboards in in the city of Providence.

44:08Um I I

44:12don't know the full number, but you have

44:14the experts in the room here. I would I

44:17would say that there are many dozens if

44:20not hundreds of billboards in

44:23>> So am I understanding that

44:26>> this one digital sign would actually

44:29remove 3,426.9

44:33square feet. Is that am I reading this

44:36right?

44:36>> And that would be and that would be five

44:38times. So I'm guessing a digital sign is

44:41something on the order of 700 5 to1

44:43ratio

44:45>> 640

44:47600 said

44:51>> okay close to 700

44:54Yeah.

45:12>> Okay.

45:13>> And if I could, I just wanted to address

45:16um Mr. Azar's uh these are called cap

45:20and trade in our industry where we the

45:23trade is getting a digital. The cap is

45:25eliminating the signage. Um the higher

45:28numbers, the tens, uh and I don't know

45:31exactly where 13 is, but this is very

45:35popular in Florida, Georgia, uh the

45:39southern states, the Carolinas, and uh

45:41if anyone's driven 95 down there, um

45:45they're every 300 feet. So I I believe

45:48it's more of a um not only is there way

45:51more signage to be eliminated, but it's

45:54a problem really of their own making.

45:56These are con in most of these places,

45:58these are uh conforming signs that could

46:01be modified as right. Uh everything here

46:05in Providence is non-conforming.

46:07Um there can be no more built. Uh so

46:11we've seen the proliferation of cap and

46:13trade really addressing places where

46:17the ordinances themselves do not address

46:21uh signage. They do not make them

46:23non-conforming. They don't ban

46:24billboards. They don't ban new

46:26billboards. They don't uh cut down on

46:28the zones that they can be in. So

46:31they're really left using that as a last

46:34resort when they're trying to cut things

46:36down. here. It's we're already barred

46:40from anything new. Um, not just here,

46:42but almost anywhere in the state. So,

46:45it's kind of an apples and oranges

46:46thing, at least as as we see it in the

46:48business and in my knowledge uh with

46:50other offices and real estate managers

46:53throughout the country.

47:06I mean, well, sure. Uh, I believe we

47:08have [clears throat] 41 leases uh within

47:12the city. Um, that is considerably less

47:16than

47:18Buffalo comes to mind. That's where I'm

47:19from. And uh it's similar population

47:23Erie County and Buffalo is the same size

47:26as Rhode Island pretty much by square

47:28footage. It's got more road mileage uh

47:31in Erie County and they have far more

47:33signs than here. Now, New York isn't the

47:35wild west by any means. Uh Rochester

47:39similar. Um but at least I've seen and

47:43I've before I had this uh market, I

47:46managed our Harrisburg market and we had

47:49more signs there as well. It was just

47:52here it seemed like we already were at

47:54the finite number and since I came to

47:57work here and moved to Rhode Island for

47:59this position um we haven't added a

48:02single board in Providence and and in

48:04reality we took a bunch down during

48:06COVID um for economic purposes. So we

48:10have far more far far fewer uh boards in

48:14the city than uh we did in 2019. Um, and

48:18this would further reduce that. And we

48:21picked out these locations, as Dylan has

48:23said. These are cancelellable leases.

48:26These are ones where we have the right

48:28to terminate. We can remove the board as

48:31quickly as we want to. Uh, 90 days in

48:33this case is is pretty standard. So,

48:36that's those are kind of my thoughts on

48:38uh Providence versus other places that I

48:40have experience with.

48:45Councilman Vargas,

48:47>> thank you very much. Um, the sign that

48:50we have in Huntington Avenue on Route 10

48:54is being managed by

48:58by you two.

48:59>> We have two

49:00>> Huntington like when you go

49:05without

49:07>> That's an electric one.

49:09>> That's an electric.

49:11>> It's not electric sign.

49:16We only have one digital sign.

49:37>> The one that is on Wendy's Wendy's

49:39restaurant.

49:40>> That's That's in Cranston. That is ours.

49:43I'm talking about Providence. The city

49:45of Providence.

49:46>> That's Cranston. That is our sign.

49:49>> That's your sign, too. The question is

49:51is going to be looking like that one

49:53that that's the one that we talking

49:55about.

49:56>> That's that size.

49:58That size,

50:00>> I think that one's much lower, right?

50:03>> Yeah. This one is uh the height is 45

50:07ft.

50:09It's at it's located in the uh

50:12the uh parking lot of the old Herb

50:15Chambers lot. There's a Chinese

50:18restaurant supply store there,

50:20>> I believe. Um that's right in that lot.

50:26>> Thank you.

50:27Yeah, I just wanted to add on that real

50:29quick that uh

50:31>> the square footage is the same, but your

50:33distance to the road is significantly

50:36less as you know on the Huntington

50:38Avenue route 10 sign than this would be.

50:41Uh we'd be very far from the road, very

50:44far from any other uh businesses, any

50:47other uh lot lines. And again, this

50:49would be this board is significantly

50:51high in the air, too. So, it's much

50:53further from uh from the road itself.

51:01All right. So, um, any other question

51:04from my committee members? I don't think

51:07so.

51:09>> Well, thank you so much, uh, Dylan.

51:11>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

51:12>> Thank you.

51:13>> Thank you.

51:16>> All right. So uh

51:18this

51:21ordinance has been before us for quite

51:23some time and uh it has evolved. It has

51:26been amended a number of times and we

51:29have heard from the public. We heard

51:31from both sides from everyone that had

51:33an interest in this. Uh I'm not too sure

51:37that there's anything else that the

51:39committee on ordinance can can do about

51:41this. Um

51:45uh and I'll just signal that councelor

51:48Peterson and the public service

51:51announcement in the 15 hours

51:54uh that at some point from here to is

51:58heard. Uh we want to incorporate that

52:01but we want to give oursel a little bit

52:03of time so that we can put the proper

52:05language in there and and do it the

52:07right way. Uh but but I think that

52:10that's going to be it for our public uh

52:12hearing on this.

52:15So I will entertain a motion to close

52:18the public hearing.

52:20>> Mr. Chair,

52:21>> yes.

52:22>> I'm sorry for interrupting. If you are

52:24going to change this,

52:26you need to change it before the close

52:28of the public hearing. So if you if you

52:32want some time, I would advise that you

52:35continue the public hearing to a date

52:37certain figure out whatever changes you

52:39want to.

52:40>> So you're not be able to amend it on the

52:42floor or

52:43>> not with zoning. It's a it's a it's a

52:46quirk in in zoning law.

52:48>> You're correct. It is. All right. So let

52:50me uh let's send ease for a couple of

52:54minutes so that we can work the language

52:56for the public service announcement.

52:59Thank you.

53:07Director Asa, you want to come up here,

53:09please?

59:05All

59:15right, we're back in session. Thank you

59:17so much. All right, so after consulting

59:19with Mr. er and and my colleagues. Um I

59:22I think the best way forward is actually

59:26um to to continue it uh to the day that

59:29is certain just like we did the other

59:31one. Uh because we still need to work

59:34the uh amendment that we want to do and

59:37Mr. Asa still needs to have a

59:40conversation with the with with the

59:42proponents.

59:44So I will on number one entertain a

59:46motion to continue to November 9th at

59:505:30.

59:52It's made by

59:54>> councelor Peterson second by council

59:56vargas. All in favor I oppose. The eyes

59:59have it. Thank you. So item number one

1:00:01is continue. Thank you madame clerk.

1:00:04Item number three please. Item three,

1:00:07petition from Dylan Conley Squire, Rhode

1:00:10Island Land Use Law, 123 D Street, Sweet

1:00:143B, Providence, Rhode Island, 02903,

1:00:17requesting a zone change from the

1:00:19property located on Assessor's Plot 3,

1:00:22lots 518 and 88, 21, and 25 Douglas

1:00:26Avenue from R4 to C2.

1:00:30>> Thank you. Uh, so I have the CPC

1:00:33letters. I'll entertain a motion to

1:00:34enter into the record of CPC letter made

1:00:37by councelor Peterson second by council

1:00:39vas on f I oppose the I7. Thank you. Uh

1:00:44do I have anybody uh presented on number

1:00:47three? City sergeant can I get the

1:00:49signup sheet please?

1:00:57Mr. Connley, please

1:01:00Mr. Chair, excuse me, Mr. Chair.

1:01:03>> I'm I'm sorry. Uh Mr. Asa, please.

1:01:06>> Just a just a brief introduction.

1:01:08>> Yes. Thank you.

1:01:10>> Um Okay. So So uh this is uh petition to

1:01:16reszone two lots on Douglas Avenue. This

1:01:18is a uh commercial building. It's a law

1:01:22office. Uh it's currently in the R4

1:01:24zone. And uh as you know uh we have many

1:01:29um properties that are being used uh

1:01:33that are inconsistent with the

1:01:35underlying zoning. Um this is one of

1:01:38those and uh the petition is to reszone

1:01:42this to C2. Uh this would make it a

1:01:46legal conforming use. Um, and this is a

1:01:51a parcel of land that is in proximity to

1:01:55a highway exit, a house of worship, uh,

1:01:59highdensity housing, and a mix of uses.

1:02:03Uh, and it directly abotss the M1 zone

1:02:05to the rear. Uh, given the diversity of

1:02:08uses around the site, the CPC found that

1:02:11a resoning uh, would conform to the

1:02:14intent of the comprehensive plan um,

1:02:18which also uh calls for resonings uh as

1:02:23necessary to make um non-conforming uses

1:02:27conforming. So therefore uh their

1:02:30recommendation is that um the council

1:02:34approve this zoning change with two

1:02:37conditions that both lots be brought

1:02:39into conformance with the tree and

1:02:41landscaping requirements of the zoning

1:02:43ordinance. And number two, uh since um

1:02:48these lots are separate, uh there are

1:02:50two options to legalize the parking at

1:02:5225 Douglas Avenue. Uh one would be by

1:02:56merging the lots or the second would be

1:02:59by applying for a special use permit to

1:03:01operate a principal use parking lot.

1:03:04>> Thank you, Mr. H. Is there any question

1:03:06for Mr. Asa from my committee members?

1:03:10Hearing none. Thank you. Uh Mr. Connley,

1:03:13please.

1:03:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dylan Connley

1:03:21on behalf of the applicant. I actually

1:03:24think Mr. Azar might be mistaken. I

1:03:26understand this to be a proposal to

1:03:28build a billboard.

1:03:33Uh this is a pretty simple zone change.

1:03:36Uh we basically need to clean up some

1:03:38non-conformities. Though the irony is by

1:03:40moving into a commercial zone, it will

1:03:42be greener and cleaner. Uh you'll see

1:03:44more green there. We'll reorganize the

1:03:46site. We at this point don't have any um

1:03:50sort of thoughts on special use permit

1:03:52versus a merger of the lots. I don't

1:03:54think it would result in anything that

1:03:56was that that much different. We met

1:03:57with the counselor from the area. Uh I

1:04:00had a good conversation about uh the

1:04:02parking and flow in the space and the uh

1:04:04the value of the additional greenery and

1:04:07where we will coordinate um the trees

1:04:09with the city forester.

1:04:11>> All right, any questions?

1:04:14Hearing none. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

1:04:16Chairman.

1:04:16>> Sounds like we are getting somewhere

1:04:18here. [laughter]

1:04:21Okay, so that does it for this. I'll

1:04:24entertain a motion to close the public

1:04:26hearing on number three.

1:04:29made by councelor Peterson, second by

1:04:30council Vargas. All in favor? I oppos.

1:04:34This closes the public hearing. And with

1:04:36that said, I'll entertain a motion to

1:04:38approve.

1:04:40Made by councelor Peterson, second by

1:04:41council vargas. All in favor? I oppose.

1:04:45Number three is approved. Thank you,

1:04:47madame clerk. Uh number four, please.

1:04:49>> Item four, petition from Lindy R. Morel

1:04:52dated June 12th, 2026, requesting a zone

1:04:56change for the property located

1:04:58Assessor's plot 58 lot 287 1331 Eddie

1:05:03Street Proidence Rhode Island 02905 from

1:05:06R3 to R-P.

1:05:10>> Thank you. Uh and we also have a CPC

1:05:13letter. So I'll enter a motion to enter

1:05:15into the record CPC letter by councelor

1:05:18Peterson, second by council. All in

1:05:21favor I oppose. The eyes have it. Thank

1:05:24you. Uh Mr. Aser, please.

1:05:28Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, this uh piece

1:05:32of property, it's occupied currently by

1:05:34a single family dwelling. Uh, the

1:05:37petitioner intends to use this property

1:05:39for an office or a personal service

1:05:42establishment. Um, and that's the uh

1:05:46impetus behind this petition. Um, this

1:05:51happens to be in the 10th ward. Uh, and

1:05:54this little stretch of Eddie Street

1:05:56contains a number of commercial and

1:05:58mixeduse buildings in addition to

1:06:01housing. Um, so the uh comprehensive

1:06:06plan uh uh calls this an area where

1:06:11medium density residential uses are in

1:06:14proximity to neighborhood commercial and

1:06:16mixed use. And uh note that the RP zone

1:06:20is primarily a residential zone, but it

1:06:23also allows for a certain degree of very

1:06:26low intensity mixed use. Um so given

1:06:29that the CPC

1:06:32um thought that this would be an an

1:06:34appropriate zoning change uh and they

1:06:38voted to make a positive recommendation

1:06:40to the council to approve this zone

1:06:42change.

1:06:44>> Thank you, Mr. Asa. City Sergeant, do we

1:06:46have anybody that signed up to speak on

1:06:48item number four?

1:07:01Actually, we do not.

1:07:05Right. All right. So, uh this is

1:07:08actually my award and this isn't a main

1:07:11road. It's residential three uh family,

1:07:15but it's also commercial mixeduse. I

1:07:18really have no opposition whatsoever for

1:07:21this to go from R3 to RP residential

1:07:24professional. So, I'm I'm glad that um

1:07:29the proponent has taken a step to u

1:07:34to redo the zoning.

1:07:36Uh any questions?

1:07:39And that there's no questions. I'll

1:07:41entertain a motion to close the public

1:07:43hearing on number three. On number four,

1:07:45please by councelor Peterson, second by

1:07:48council bag. All in favor? I oppose. The

1:07:51eyes have it. This concludes this public

1:07:54hearing on item number four. And with

1:07:56that said, I'll entertain a motion to

1:07:57approve.

1:07:58>> So move

1:08:00um is made by council member Vargas and

1:08:02second by council Peterson. All in

1:08:04favor? I oppose. You guys have it. Item

1:08:08number four is approved and madame clerk

1:08:11being that there is no further business

1:08:12on the calendar I'll entertain a motion

1:08:14to adjurnn. So move made by council var

1:08:16second by councilman Peterson. All in

1:08:19favor I oppose the eyes have it. This

1:08:21meeting is adjourned. Thank you so much

1:08:23everyone.