2026-10-15 - Town Council Work Session

00:02Yeah.

00:08>> It's a good one.

00:08>> It's a good one.

12:18>> I ordered this. Wow. Okay.

12:22Good evening. At this time I will call

12:24to order the Morrisville Town Council

12:25work session for October 15th, 2026.

12:30Um at this time we are missing one

12:32council member and we expect to him to

12:34arrive shortly, hopefully.

12:36Um at this time I'd like to recognize

12:39council member Scroggins Johnson to

12:41address something about the agenda. Ms.

12:43Scroggins Johnson.

12:45>> Thank you, Mayor Collings. Um I would

12:48like to add an item that was previously

12:53removed from Tuesday night's agenda, um

12:55specifically the resolution adopting the

12:572027 Town Council meeting schedule,

13:01um and add that as the first item of

13:04tonight's agenda and consequently after

13:06adoption if we could repost the agenda

13:08for the public just so they're aware of

13:10that um

13:12change.

13:14>> Okay. Thank you very much. I'll look

13:16over to

13:17um

13:17do I actually need a motion to determine

13:19we're going to adopt this agenda? So

13:21what would be next steps to make that

13:23change?

13:24>> I think just acknowledge that there a

13:26change to the agenda and um I don't

13:29believe Council member Caramel is going

13:31to make it at this point. I can offer

13:33some more in a break.

13:34>> So, we'll be going forward with six.

13:36Does any Without objection, we're going

13:38to change the agenda in that way.

13:40Any objections?

13:42Hearing none,

13:43we now have an agenda that matches what

13:46we have before us.

13:47>> So, do we need to

13:49adopt with a vote then?

13:51>> No.

13:52Council staff has indicated we just need

13:54to acknowledge it.

13:57>> I'm not so sure.

13:58>> I apologize if if you interpreted that

14:01way. We needed to address it with a vote

14:04to adopt the agenda. Sorry.

14:06>> Sounds great.

14:07>> So, I'd like to make a motion to include

14:10resolution adopting the 2027 Town

14:13Council meeting schedule

14:15um as the first item for tonight's

14:16agenda in addition to the um already

14:19existing items.

14:21>> I'll second that.

14:22>> A motion from Council member

14:23Scruggs-Johnson and a second from

14:24Council member Scruggs-Johnson. All

14:25those in favor, please say aye.

14:27Any opposed? Hearing none, the carries

14:29unanimously 6-0. Thank you very much.

14:32This time we will enter into our

14:33discussion items. I'd like to recognize

14:36um

14:39Town Manager Zuidema to facilitate the

14:42first item, which is resolution adopting

14:44the 2027 Town Council meeting schedule.

14:46>> Thank you, Mayor. So, you have a draft

14:49schedule for 2027 in front of you. That

14:53schedule reflects what we had done.

14:56>> We don't have it.

14:58>> You will have.

15:00>> But, it's not electronic.

15:03It's not in the past meeting.

15:05Okay, sorry. There is no past Council

15:08meeting agendas last three months that I

15:10can see to pull up on Tuesday, so I

15:13can't pull it up electronically and it

15:15wasn't published for tonight's agenda.

15:18So, I'm not sure how to get a copy.

15:21>> We'll address We'll address that right

15:22now.

15:22>> Okay. If you could just send it to my

15:24email, that way I could read it on my

15:25screen. I'd appreciate it.

15:32>> [cough]

16:03>> It was in the meeting from Tuesday. If

16:06you can pull it from there.

16:07>> That was the link, but it was for some

16:08reason it's broken.

16:11>> [clears throat]

16:34>> Oh, no. I can send it.

16:35>> Send it to town council.

16:41So, while we're doing that, can I

16:44While doing that, can I make a comment?

16:47>> [laughter]

16:47>> Let's get the discussion going. Sure.

16:50>> So,

16:51because I was the one that brought this

16:52up on Tuesday night that I did not want

16:54to move forward with deciding before

16:57council had a discussion. In the past,

16:59council has

17:01typically had a discussion about the

17:04next year's calendar, and we agree on

17:07criteria for the calendar, and I really

17:10thought it was important that we

17:14number one have the discussion, number

17:16two verify the criteria or change of

17:18criteria. And most importantly, we have

17:21two new council members that have never

17:23been a part of this process about

17:25adopting a calendar for the next year.

17:27So, I thought it was important that they

17:29have the opportunity to weigh in and

17:31that we have the discussion.

17:39>> Thank you for that. We now have it up on

17:41the screen. Councilmember Patel, do you

17:43have something you wanted to share?

17:45I see you.

17:46Thing is up.

17:47>> Oh, no.

17:49>> Councilmember Johnson, do you have more

17:50that you want to share? Is that okay?

17:52>> I have I have other comments, but I just

17:54wanted to set the table, but

17:56>> That sounds good.

17:56>> Thank you.

18:01>> I think this is the the draft that you

18:03see. Again, as as I had started again,

18:05my apologies on not having it in the

18:07right packet. So, this follows generally

18:10the schedule you've had in the past,

18:12which is a normal meeting on the second

18:13and fourth Tuesday.

18:15Uh it does include work sessions

18:17typically on the Thursday following the

18:20second

18:21Tuesday meeting. Uh I think that's part

18:23of what the discussion will be tonight.

18:26Uh it also does not include a first

18:28meeting in July. We did that this year.

18:29We got positive feedback from council

18:31and staff. So, our intent would be to

18:33skip that meeting in 2027 as well. And

18:36then it also includes um

18:39the retreat on February 4th through 6th.

18:42>> [cough]

18:43>> Happy to answer any questions or I'll

18:45turn it back for discussion.

18:49And now discussion time. Uh

18:50Councilmember Espinoza Johnson followed

18:51by Councilmember Johnson twice.

18:54>> So, I first thing that

18:57um

18:58we should talk about

19:00ground rules or um general approaches to

19:04the calendar and it's mostly reflected

19:06here. So, I did like the change of the

19:11meeting schedule from this year with one

19:14uh

19:15meeting in July being the last

19:20or this fourth Thursday or fourth

19:23Tuesday of the month for and skipping

19:25that first July because we

19:27worked so hard on the budget. The budget

19:29has to be approved by June 30th and

19:32having a break for staff and for council

19:35and the public is

19:39really a good

19:41break.

19:42Also, only one meeting in December.

19:45We've done that for years and years. So,

19:48I think that policy is still good.

19:51The one thing that I noticed in the

19:53sequencing proposed for this schedule is

19:57that the work sessions are scheduled in

19:59the last Thursday of the month and I

20:01thought that we had wanted them to be

20:04the first

20:06Thursday or the

20:08when you have the second Tuesday, you

20:11have the

20:12second Thursday as well.

20:14The same week and we've somehow moved it

20:17to the end of the month. And it

20:20it just seems like in my head I had and

20:23then we switched up to the um

20:27second Thursday in September, the

20:29September 10th. That was like the first

20:31meeting of the month. So,

20:33I think it we need to be clear about

20:35when we're scheduling these work

20:37sessions, whether it's the

20:39you know, that first

20:41week of meetings or the second week of

20:43meetings because when we switched up

20:45this year in September, it seemed like

20:48we had always done it later and it it

20:52just Can we agree on a ground rule?

20:54Either it's the last week of the you

20:57know, month where we have meetings or if

20:59it's in the first week.

21:02Because

21:03we plan things around the calendar that

21:07way.

21:07So,

21:08that's all I have.

21:11Councilwoman Johnson and myself.

21:13>> So,

21:14um I I agree on

21:17the elimination of the first meeting in

21:20July. That did work out well this year

21:22and if we could and I was skeptical by

21:25the way cuz I thought it would load up

21:28other meetings and make them longer, but

21:31that seemed to work well.

21:32Um and that's so that I'll make that

21:34comment cuz that was a change to this

21:36year. Um

21:38the work sessions, whenever they are, I

21:42think

21:43and I've said this before over the

21:44years, I think the three-week breaks

21:47that we have um the couple of times a

21:50year between council meetings, I think

21:52those should be sacred. There should be

21:54no work session during that time. I

21:56think those are really important um

21:59to have a three-week break and not have

22:01even a work session in those three

22:03weeks. So, I think that's an important

22:05criteria and I would um

22:08I would suggest um

22:11that we move the work sessions maybe in

22:14the middle of the months to avoid that

22:16problem of hitting those three-week

22:18breaks. And I also um

22:21I would prefer the work sessions um not

22:24be in the same week as a council

22:26meeting. I would prefer them to be in a

22:30different week. Um

22:32personally, I never liked the council

22:34meeting and the work session in the same

22:35week and I've said that in years past

22:38and

22:38um I'm just going to say it again.

22:44>> Okay. Um

22:46I would just share that

22:48we get the we approve the

22:51schedule

22:52probably sooner rather than later and

22:54last year we approved it well in

22:55advance. So, I think it's on us that if

22:58it's not consistent the

23:00third Thursday or something like that.

23:03It's our schedule that we agreed so

23:07we shouldn't ever miss something because

23:09it wasn't the same as it was before. So

23:11I think it's good to be able to be

23:12flexible especially in the case that

23:14maybe if you want to retain those three

23:16weeks at the end

23:17>> [clears throat]

23:18>> we'll move some of the work sessions to

23:20an earlier week. So it's not always

23:22going to be consistent in that way.

23:24But um

23:25I'm up for trying to get to give some

23:28good direction to staff tonight. Have

23:30this come back

23:31in another week and a half

23:33so that we can approve it. Um

23:36So that's kind of my thoughts about

23:37this. I appreciate

23:39everything that you guys have said and I

23:41think that we're going to come to a good

23:42schedule that we're all going to be

23:43happy with. I just want to remind us

23:44that it was a couple of years ago where

23:47the work sessions

23:49um there was a lot about the travel for

23:51some of our members and didn't want to

23:53do something that's going to mess with

23:55travel. And if it still is, I think we

23:57need to share that with staff about why

24:00why that matters so that they can know

24:02that if that's still the case. Cuz we

24:05haven't really talked about that this

24:06time.

24:07>> Well, I haven't mentioned it but I will.

24:10>> I'm looking forward to that. Sounds

24:11great. Okay.

24:12>> So let me just answer that before you

24:14know

24:16I like the work sessions on the same

24:19week of a council meeting because it

24:20allows me to do business travel.

24:22>> Right.

24:23>> And if we start doing it three weeks a

24:25month, my business travel will be

24:27hindered and I don't know if that is

24:30consistent with other people that have

24:32business travel.

24:32>> so

24:33>> Yeah.

24:33>> I'll put mine down now.

24:35>> So that you know but it is a physical

24:37drain because you're 100% focused and

24:40we're we're giving a lot of uh intense

24:43energy to these meetings and I

24:44understand working full-time and

24:47focusing on these meetings during the

24:49same week twice is a lot of um

24:53you know um

24:54it it's hard physically and mentally but

24:58still it allows us to have a balance in

25:02the schedule and allows us to to balance

25:05the work life

25:06a little easier. That was my rational

25:09last year. I'd love to hear from the

25:11entire council on what their

25:14concerns are. Thanks.

25:15>> Okay. We did hear from one council

25:16member that is not in favor of that. I

25:18mean, you can sort of think of it as

25:20there's a two-week break

25:22usually unless we have it in that other

25:25week. But it ends up being just one and

25:26a half weeks. It's a Tuesday, Thursday

25:28the same week. Okay, you're not

25:30understanding that, so that's fine. I

25:31kind of went a little bit afield on

25:33that. Um so, first I'll recognize Mayor

25:35Pro Tem Rabadi, then Council Member

25:36Rabadi.

25:37Please.

25:38>> So, it it's really hard for me to do two

25:42meetings in the same week. You know, to

25:45to tell my team that I'm offline from

25:485:00 for the foreseeable future

25:51is very difficult. So,

25:54I support Council Member Johnson in

25:56saying that it'd be helpful for me if we

25:59spaced the meetings out. Like

26:03I don't think anybody's crazy about the

26:04fact that I go offline at 5:00 one night

26:06a week, you know,

26:08much less two. So,

26:12that's where

26:13I come down on this. I would be really

26:15interested to know if staff has a point

26:18of view on this. What what do you all

26:20prefer?

26:22>> We serve at the pleasure.

26:25So,

26:27I don't know that we have a preference

26:29per se. I mean, I think there is pros

26:31and cons. I think there is a pro in that

26:33you get two meetings out of the out of

26:35the way in the same week and leave the

26:37interim weeks open. Um but I also

26:39understand, you know, it is certainly a

26:41drain sometimes to have to come, you

26:43know, two nights and you're you're

26:45preparing for two meetings essentially

26:46at the same time. So, I don't mean to be

26:49noncommittal, but I I I don't think

26:50there's a clear answer for us either,

26:52quite honestly.

26:55>> Okay, that's helpful.

26:57Um

26:57>> [laughter]

27:02>> Okay, yeah, well then

27:04I'll just talk about me. This is

27:06it's very difficult for me to prepare

27:09effectively for a second meeting in the

27:12same week. So, I you know, I

27:17Yeah.

27:18That's all I'm saying.

27:22>> Councilmember Patel, please.

27:25>> So, this casually, I would prefer uh

27:29the work session is doing the same week

27:31as either first or second uh council

27:35meeting.

27:37One allows for work travel, and also

27:41if you're planning vacation now, it it

27:43becomes an issue because uh now you have

27:47three weeks that you have to worry about

27:49issue of three weeks.

27:51Uh vacations usually come once or twice

27:53a year, but uh work travel can come

27:55anytime, and because of that, I would

27:58prefer to

28:00have both in the same, at least

28:02uh

28:04in the same week as council meeting.

28:05>> [clears throat]

28:11>> And I'm kind

28:13I'm fine either way, and I'm flexible.

28:15Um Councilmember Johnson.

28:18>> So, I just want to ask a question

28:20because

28:22and I I know um

28:25the difference between being in person

28:28at a meeting and being remote, but

28:30>> [clears throat]

28:31>> we allow uh remote participation at work

28:34sessions because uh we typically don't

28:37make decisions, we give direction, but

28:40there's usually not a vote. Um and

28:43again, I just did it in September. I was

28:45remote for one of our work sessions, and

28:48it is difficult because you're not in

28:49the room, [clears throat] you can't read

28:50the room, you can't see what's going on.

28:52Um but does that factor into I just

28:55mentioned that to see if that factors

28:57into those that potentially could be on

29:00vacation or

29:02traveling for work. Um you have the

29:04ability to be remote.

29:06>> Uh yes, absolutely. Um

29:09I have considered that. I would rather

29:11be here in person when uh

29:15when those are also if I'm traveling for

29:16work, probably my work schedule won't

29:18even allow to

29:20attend the

29:21remote session, right?

29:22>> Cuz of dinners.

29:23>> Yeah.

29:24So.

29:25>> The other thing too is even though we

29:28could re-

29:29um remotely dial in, if there's a closed

29:32session and sometimes we have had closed

29:34sessions on work session nights, we're

29:36not able to participate remotely because

29:38that is one of the rules for closed

29:40sessions.

29:45>> Just the Just the business travel come

29:47up suddenly? Like is there Could we

29:50schedule the meetings on the off weeks

29:52and then if there's, you know, business

29:54travel, do we have enough notice where

29:56we could potentially change it to the on

29:59week?

30:00>> So I was the business travel doesn't

30:02come suddenly in in a week's notice

30:05where it doesn't come in advance for the

30:06entire year either, right?

30:09Right. Yeah, come.

30:12>> For me it doesn't

30:13>> Yeah, I mean it's different for me,

30:15right?

30:17>> Yeah, I have contracts, so it's a little

30:21less stable for me.

30:27>> So to quote Princess Bride, I think we

30:29are at an impasse.

30:31Unless uh

30:33Councilmember Garmella is not present.

30:35Councilmember Kestling, thoughts?

30:38>> So um

30:42I also care about travel. Um, I don't

30:45have as much uh

30:47work travel um

30:49as sounds like other folks do. Um, if I

30:51do, it is uh usually just a day trip. Um

30:56not even a day trip, just out there and

30:57there and back within a span of a a work

30:59day.

31:00Um,

31:01but I try to schedule those when

31:03there's not

31:05uh

31:05council sessions.

31:07Um, I did go through and identify where

31:10those three-week gaps were. Um, we have

31:13it between March and April and August

31:15and September. Um, the thing about those

31:17is that the uh

31:19work session begins that three-week gap.

31:23Um, so the uh

31:25March 25th uh meeting begins the the

31:28three-week gap and then the August 26th

31:30uh work session begins the three-week

31:32gap. Um, I think if the three-week gap

31:35started with the Tuesday meeting, that

31:37would be better.

31:38>> Mhm.

31:39>> Um

31:40I

31:46am torn between whether or not to have

31:48meeting

31:49the the the work session in the same

31:51meeting.

31:52Um, or in the same week as the regular

31:55meetings. Um, I can see uh the

31:59pros and cons to to to both. Um

32:06>> You and I

32:07I'm good.

32:09>> [cough]

32:11>> I don't have strong opinions either way

32:12on that one, I guess.

32:17>> How do you think we should try to

32:18proceed to try to

32:20>> We need a we need a seven votes.

32:25>> I'd just start off.

32:28To start off, does anyone not agree with

32:30Harrison's point about moving the work

32:32sessions at least to

32:35>> I like that.

32:36>> the off week could be the three week

32:39break should begin on a Tuesday. I

32:42agree.

32:42>> So if we move that meeting potentially

32:45to the 18th

32:48and the same with the September

32:51meeting. Just move it forward a week.

32:54Can we all agree on that?

33:00I'm good with that.

33:01>> Potentially when I still don't

33:03understand what what is being asked

33:04here.

33:05>> So the see where see in March

33:09>> Uh-huh.

33:09>> where there's the 23rd there's a regular

33:11meeting and then the 25th there's a work

33:13session. But that starts a three-week

33:16break. There's a three-week break

33:17between the 25th and April 13th.

33:20>> Yeah.

33:20>> So what we're saying is let's move that

33:23work session back to the 18th.

33:26Then the three-week break will start on

33:28the 23rd rather than the 25th.

33:30>> Yeah.

33:31Yeah, I agree with that.

33:33That's fine.

33:33>> So I'm hearing a couple things. One is

33:37our work sessions are on Thursdays. Are

33:39you saying to move the work sessions to

33:41a Tuesday?

33:42>> No.

33:43>> No, she That's a Thu-

33:44>> The 18th is a Thursday.

33:46>> Thursday date.

33:47>> March 18th is a Thursday.

33:49>> Oh, I was looking at September. Sorry.

33:51Okay, so it still would be the 23rd

33:54Thursday.

33:54>> During the week we don't have a council

33:56meeting, but at least we are starting

33:59that break sooner.

34:02>> And then we're splitting

34:04when these work sessions are occurring

34:06and it gives Anne some relief from her

34:10concern.

34:12And I think that's fair.

34:14>> And then

34:14>> That's two months out of 12.

34:15>> Well, yeah. I mean

34:17>> I'm trying, Anne.

34:18>> I appreciate you, Liz. I appreciate you.

34:20>> to move them all, but I'm not

34:22>> But it's a compromise.

34:24It's working towards a compromise.

34:28>> Would it be out of the question to have

34:30some months where the meetings are in

34:33the same week and some months where the

34:35meetings are staggered.

34:37>> But to the point,

34:39you don't know more than a month in

34:41advance in some roles whether you're

34:44going to I I've had that situation. I

34:46don't have it now. I now I know my

34:48travel for the whole year, but

34:49I've had a situation where travel would

34:51come up a month in advance. So, you

34:53don't you really

34:55I don't think that's really a great

34:57solution. It's the whole thing's kind of

34:59just a crap shoot if you do that.

35:01>> And that would be true whether or not

35:02it's in the same week or if it's

35:04staggered. You wouldn't know that.

35:07>> Right. No, I I'm not the one who's

35:09saying I need to travel,

35:10but

35:14I think their point is that if you tie

35:15up three weeks, it's more likely that

35:18you're going to run into some business

35:19travel.

35:20>> So, if I if I let's say that

35:23Well, at least in my case, and I'm sure

35:26some of the people's case that you don't

35:29you're not asked that you have to travel

35:31this particular week per se, but

35:34this month. So, you have to find now

35:37a week or what hour long you have to go

35:40in that that month. And if you have

35:43meetings three weeks out of that month,

35:46it makes that makes it difficult to

35:49travel or attend meetings the way you

35:51would like to.

35:53>> Okay, can we look at May

35:55in which we have two weeks in which

35:58there are two

36:01meetings per week.

36:03>> Correct.

36:04>> Can we move one of them to an off week?

36:10>> Then the whole month is blown.

36:13>> The whole month is blown anyway.

36:15>> Nobody goes anywhere.

36:17>> [laughter]

36:17>> Yeah, I mean,

36:18the whole month is blown anyway.

36:22If we move that 27th

36:25work session back to the 20th,

36:27I mean

36:29then we have one week with two meetings

36:31and two weeks with one week.

36:33>> It splits it out more.

36:39>> You know, and that last meeting is is

36:42needed. In the last couple of years we

36:44haven't needed it. We've canceled it. So

36:47>> Okay.

36:48>> I think that I think again that's fair

36:50compromise to move it.

36:53>> And we'll cancel it because we make

36:55decisions during the regular meeting. So

36:57we wouldn't know on the 20th whether or

36:59>> That's true, too.

37:00>> Well, if

37:01last meeting is needed then yeah, I mean

37:07leave it.

37:08>> But whether it's needed or not is

37:10decided

37:11what in during the

37:13council [cough] meeting.

37:14Uh

37:16>> What how about moving then how about

37:18moving the first work session back to

37:20the 6th?

37:22We need that one. We know that one.

37:24>> I am not going to be here. I think

37:26there's a league conference, too, by the

37:28way.

37:28>> Okay, well

37:29>> that week. The first week in May.

37:31>> Okay.

37:33Then I'm fine with the

37:35change to the

37:36three-week gaps.

37:42>> Do we want to try to change anything

37:44else in addition?

37:45>> Can we Can we

37:47get the city manager's input before this

37:50comes back to council and just make sure

37:52he's okay, too?

37:54>> Yeah.

37:54>> Yeah.

37:55>> So I think what I've heard is that you

37:57would like to move the March work

38:01session from the 25th to the 18th. That

38:04would not interrupt three weeks. You

38:06would like to move August 26th to August

38:0919th so as to not interrupt the three

38:11weeks.

38:12And then some discussion around May

38:15trying to move one of those

38:18um

38:19around. Now, the

38:23potential challenge with May, of course,

38:25that's budget season. So, right now

38:28we're scheduled to present budget the

38:2911th. Um so, normally the 25th would be

38:33the public hearing, and then the 27th is

38:36when you discuss anything we need to, if

38:38there is a need after the public

38:40hearing. That's the only challenge I

38:42think with moving the 27th is we really

38:45need to schedule a work session after

38:47the public hearing in case you hear

38:49anything that you know, we need to

38:50circle back and talk on before you would

38:53be asked Um the plan now would be to to

38:56have a vote on June 8th on the budget.

38:58That leaves you June 22nd as a backup

39:00date if needed. So,

39:02that would be the challenge of moving

39:04the 27th. I mean, I think we could move

39:08May 13th a little more easily and not

39:11disrupt budget schedule. So, that would

39:13take that back to

39:15what, May 6th?

39:17>> And that's the lead conference.

39:19>> Of course, we could

39:20>> Yes.

39:23All right, it's fine. I'm I'm okay with

39:25just the two changes.

39:27>> is going to be sworn in as the president

39:28of the league that week.

39:29>> Yeah, no, you're right.

39:31>> And we'll need to go.

39:33>> I forgot who we're to meet this year.

39:38>> Yeah, budget budget is a little tricky.

39:41Budget season is a little I get that.

39:43>> Well, the

39:44we could move the 13th to the 20th.

39:49That that is not necessarily a budget

39:51work session, that's a get some work

39:53done work session as it is. So, that

39:55could move to the 20th. That would leave

39:58you with just one week.

40:01>> With two meetings.

40:03That's a fair compromise, too.

40:09>> Fine with me.

40:12>> The

40:13one other option, I suppose, um since

40:15we're throwing things out, is that the

40:1727th

40:19could move to

40:21the following week, the first week of

40:23June. It puts us kind of tight to, you

40:26know, the what what potentially budget

40:29adoption on June 8th.

40:31Um

40:33So, I think moving the 13th to the 6th,

40:35if we if you want to avoid

40:38three weeks of meeting or to avoid two

40:40weeks of two meetings, that would be the

40:41staff preference would move that 13th

40:44May work session to the 6th.

40:49>> And the 6th is a week

40:50>> 13th to the 20th, I'm sorry.

40:52>> 20th.

40:53>> Sorry, I just

40:54said that.

40:54>> compromise.

40:57>> Do you know if any other body had a

40:59thought?

41:00>> Uh, no. Well, my thought is I'm tired of

41:02talking about this. So, let's just

41:06let's move the

41:08April and the

41:10April and August, which ones was it?

41:12>> March and August.

41:12>> March and August.

41:13>> Let's move March and August

41:15and

41:18call it a day. I mean, I'm the one with

41:19the problem, just deal with it.

41:23>> I'm the one with you.

41:25>> I will

41:25>> It's a problem for me, too. There's two

41:27of us, so it's okay.

41:28>> Of one other thing that I don't think

41:30will work, but we're here. You could

41:33consider an afternoon work session. I

41:35know that's challenging for folks that

41:36work. I'm just going to say that out

41:38loud knowing that I think it's

41:39challenging,

41:40>> bringing that up.

41:41>> I think it it's worth putting all the

41:42cards on the table, but I understand

41:44that may not be feasible.

41:46Um, you could also look at considering,

41:49you know, an occasional afternoon work

41:51session. Doesn't have to be every one.

41:53You know, that would just just

41:55things to consider.

42:00>> I'm afraid that would be more

42:01problematic, quite frankly.

42:03>> I'm sure it would. I just I like I said,

42:05I don't think it'll work, but

42:07>> especially with open

42:08>> No, you're thinking outside the box. We

42:09appreciate that, Amy.

42:11>> Okay, I think we have

42:14>> Will this be a meeting

42:15>> May 13th for our next meeting.

42:17>> Yeah, so we'll go March 18th, we'll go

42:20August 19th. You want to leave May

42:22alone, is that the consensus I heard, or

42:24do you want to move the 13th to the

42:2620th?

42:27>> I'd move it to the 20th.

42:28>> Okay, we'll do that.

42:29>> that's a fair compromise that helps some

42:32of us that wanted it that way, and that

42:36>> Okay, we'll do that, and I will

42:38touch base with Council Member Gamella

42:40to confirm that he feels that would be

42:42okay, and then we'll bring this back on

42:45the 27th. We'll put it on consent, but

42:47if it needs any discussion, it could

42:49certainly be pulled if that's the will

42:50of Council.

42:51>> So, which meeting are you going to, 20th

42:54or the one on 27th?

42:55>> May 13th.

42:56>> On 20th.

42:57>> So, May 13th will go to the 20th. We

42:59need the 27th to be [laughter] after the

43:01public hearing on the 25th.

43:03>> So, the first week of May will be the

43:05only one that doesn't have a meeting.

43:06>> So, we'll move three.

43:09>> Okay.

43:09>> So, that's three of eight.

43:13Okay.

43:14We got it, unless you have any other

43:16questions.

43:17>> Do we want to add another agenda item,

43:19or are we good?

43:20>> I'm sorry.

43:20>> That's my question.

43:22We're good.

43:22>> We're good.

43:23>> Okay.

43:25That only took 30 minutes, that's not

43:26bad.

43:27Okay, we're going to move on to item two

43:29B as in boy, financial stability through

43:32analytics presentation. I'd like to

43:34recognize Paul Hussey,

43:35Hussey,

43:36strategic performance manager at this

43:38time.

43:40>> Thank you, Mayor.

43:42Um, and thank you, Council.

43:44Uh, tonight I'd like to take some time

43:46to talk to you about

43:49uh, some of the tools in the town's kit

43:52for assisting us with

43:55um, analyzing where we are from a

43:58financial stability and health

43:59standpoint.

44:01Uh, some of the things we do to help us

44:03prepare

44:04for the future,

44:06and uh, consider a couple of options

44:08that were presented to us as potential

44:11expansions

44:12for our kids moving forward as well.

44:15Before we jump into

44:18things broad scale,

44:20I'd like to take a

44:22quick moment

44:24and this may be more of a slide for

44:27anyone watching public than for our

44:29council itself,

44:31but to talk just a little bit about why

44:33we care about the the concept of

44:35financial resiliency.

44:37So financial resiliency and stability in

44:40Mooresville

44:42is

44:43critically important for us and it ties

44:45back into our strategic plan and really

44:48all seven goals are affected by the

44:51financial stability of the town in some

44:53way. But there's three components that I

44:56believe are crucially impacted more so

44:58than than the other four.

45:00First one being organizational

45:02resiliency,

45:04both it and financial resiliency have

45:06resiliency in the name, so perhaps that

45:08one is

45:10maybe more obvious than than others, but

45:12Mooresville's ability to survive through

45:16and and continue to to serve its its

45:17residents at the highest level possible

45:20through unexpected events such as the

45:23large number of property tax revaluation

45:26appeals that we've had recently,

45:28such as the COVID-19 pandemic from 5

45:31years ago is impacted by how good of a

45:36job we are doing at making sure we are

45:38set up

45:40to insulate ourselves from financial

45:42shocks from the outside world.

45:44Economic prosperity is spoken to as well

45:48from the standpoint of our financial

45:50health.

45:51Mooresville's health

45:53financially as a community

45:55speaks to our ability to attract new

45:57businesses, to convince people that we

46:00are a a great place to come and work, to

46:03live, um to grow,

46:06uh and to uh continue to expand as as a

46:09community, um which all directly tie in

46:11with uh our ability to to drive

46:14ourselves forward economically.

46:16Um [clears throat] and then that also

46:18speaks to our ability to to grow as as a

46:20community. Um and I know the the term uh

46:24buildout has been thrown around um at

46:26times, but we are not there yet. Um and

46:30in whatever shape or form or fashion uh

46:32the

46:34and the

46:35remaining uh components of of growth for

46:37Morrisville takes,

46:38um that is also impacted by the

46:41financial health uh of this government

46:43and the community, um and how we

46:46determine uh

46:47what

46:48uh

46:50different pieces of land are are

46:51ultimately used for, um ultimately plays

46:54a a role and then is impacted by the the

46:56financial well-being um of the town.

47:01So, with that said, what I want to jump

47:02into the first uh the two tools uh that

47:06has been discussed um previously, uh

47:09which is geospatial analysis.

47:11Um geospatial analysis uh is um a a bit

47:16of a broad umbrella term uh

47:18and very generally it just means any any

47:21sort of maps, uh location data, or

47:24geographical information um that we use

47:27to try identify trends, um make

47:30projections, engage in analysis,

47:33um help inform decisions uh that we make

47:35for the town moving forward.

47:38This can take a number of different

47:39forms. Uh a few examples of how we have

47:41used this here in Morrisville in the

47:42past,

47:44uh

47:44be identifying the ideal spot for new

47:47public safety station. Um

47:49couple of factors that have helped

47:50inform decisions like these uh have been

47:52looking at travel times uh to uh

47:56different households and seeing which

47:58households are the furthest away from

48:00our current stations in play.

48:02Um incident frequency and looking at

48:05heat maps

48:06of where incidents are most likely to

48:08occur has been another component in

48:10geospatial analysis that has helped

48:12inform these decisions.

48:14Um another example would be projecting

48:17the track impact on closing a road for

48:20construction project

48:22and seeing what the likely impact would

48:24be on traffic being into other streets

48:28and how that would potentially impact

48:30congestion in the town.

48:33Determining optimal locations for public

48:35transit stops.

48:36Again, this can be determined a handful

48:39of ways depending on the assumptions put

48:40in play, but some of the ones we've used

48:42in the past

48:43are the ones that are most closely

48:45located to points of interest for the

48:48town as well as being the furthest away

48:49from other transit stops.

48:52And they can also assist and it has in

48:53the past with development of the land

48:55use plan and determining what

48:57Morrisville will look like moving

48:59forward.

49:02Some potential other uses geospatial

49:05analysis that we could incorporate

49:07moving forward would be to help support

49:10decisions behind investing in certain

49:12locations.

49:13Um so what type of land use makes sense

49:16for for certain areas moving forward um

49:18depending on what we intend to get out

49:20of it and visualizing that in a way that

49:23is easy and

49:25>> [clears throat]

49:25>> understand.

49:26Um sampling land use types in the past

49:29and what kind of revenue growth occurred

49:31over time.

49:32So showing how tax revenue might have

49:34changed in a particular location from

49:3720, let's say 20 2016 to 2026 today.

49:41Um conveying increases in tax revenue on

49:44the whole and displaying that uh from a

49:47map standpoint.

49:49And then since we'll be getting into uh

49:51Towns a little later in the

49:53presentation. Um value per acre analysis

49:56is a a measurement that has been put

49:58forward in uh Strong Towns um

50:01website. Uh geospatial analysis can

50:04enable us to visualize this beyond just

50:06the general tax revenue per acreage

50:09metric that is put online and show um

50:12different breakdowns of of revenue per

50:15acreage uh on different parts of the

50:17map.

50:20Um

50:21geospatial analysis uh is ultimately a

50:24tool uh like any other and there are

50:27limits um to what it can do for us.

50:30Um some of those uh revolve around what

50:33it can tell us for the future. Um so one

50:36thing that it cannot do particularly

50:38well is predict incoming development for

50:41us. Uh while we can use it to try and

50:44shape uh what land use might look like

50:46in the future, um what revenue we might

50:49expect it uh if we classify different

50:52pieces of land differently,

50:54um it cannot ultimately tell us what

50:56developer intentions will be. Uh it

50:58cannot tell us where developments

51:00developers might want to open businesses

51:02[cough]

51:02um or construct housing.

51:04Um it cannot communicate to us the the

51:07likelihood of people choosing to develop

51:11or not develop in a particular place

51:13without a heavy set of assumptions being

51:15put into play for it.

51:17Uh and similarly, it cannot forecast

51:19future tax revenue without making

51:21significant assumptions along those same

51:22lines as well. Um so while a geospatial

51:25analysis

51:26is often very useful for telling us how

51:28things are currently and how things

51:30compare to the past, there are heavy set

51:33of assumptions that we usually have to

51:34put in place to be able to trend data

51:36out in the future.

51:40Um if we wish to incorporate more

51:43geospatial analysis into uh more still

51:47financial analysis in the future.

51:50I believe it's important to consider

51:52some of the costs

51:53uh that may come along with it.

51:55Uh staff time is one big component of

51:58that. Um so, Rodney Watkins, our GIS

52:01analyst, uh has done a fantastic job

52:05with helping us develop uh maps and the

52:08visualizations that show the town.

52:11Um but for individuals who are not

52:14Rodney, uh there is likely a steep

52:16training and learning curve

52:19um to develop the necessary skill set uh

52:21and expertise around GIS and uh whatever

52:24softwares are are in play to um

52:27be able to to build this all at scale

52:29that Council may or may not desire.

52:32Uh

52:33there is uh time required in acquiring

52:36data sets if we do not have them

52:37currently, and the information necessary

52:40to project uh maps if that information

52:42is not already on hand in Morehead City.

52:45If that information is not available

52:47publicly, um there is also a significant

52:50time cost to potentially having to build

52:53out uh shape files or layers ourselves.

52:56Um as someone who built out a series of

53:00layers uh for their dissertation in

53:02college uh for Esri,

53:04I can attest that it is a very tedious

53:06and time-consuming process, um and that

53:08is something that is potentially worth

53:10considering from a staff load standpoint

53:13moving forward.

53:14Um running the models and verifying the

53:16results also can take a a significant

53:20portion of time um to make sure that

53:22things are being uh run through Esri or

53:25whatever software is used properly,

53:27>> [cough]

53:27>> uh and that [clears throat] the the

53:28results being displayed are ultimately

53:31accurate, and the recommendations we

53:32generate um are in line with uh the

53:35values that we have as a town.

53:38Um and in any case where any of these

53:40skill sets are not possible from a town

53:42standpoint, it will mean consultant

53:44time, Um which is time that is is

53:46potentially that we could spend being

53:48used elsewhere for other projects.

53:51Um resources that may be worth

53:53considering alongside that, um certain

53:55analysis tools uh require credit usage

53:58for GIS. Um while we do have a decent

54:01supply of GIS credits, um with heavy

54:04enough analysis load, uh those would

54:07expire and would potentially require um

54:10additional credit investment to continue

54:12um performing those types of analyses.

54:15And then if this were to go to a

54:17consultant, uh there would be

54:18potentially be fees associated with that

54:20as well.

54:24Um our staff recommendation Yeah, yeah,

54:27sorry.

54:29>> Are you going to pause after each

54:31section if we have questions because

54:33you've got a lot of intense information

54:36here, and I do have a question regarding

54:37this section.

54:38>> Uh certainly, when we get to the the end

54:40of the the GIS section, we can

54:42or the geospatial section, we can stop

54:45for questions.

54:47Um our staff recommendation uh would be

54:50to just keep in mind that this is uh one

54:54tool out of many in the kit. Um it's a

54:56tool that we do use uh currently um when

54:59the situation arises.

55:01Uh there are applications um

55:04as Moorestown has has already

55:06demonstrated and will likely continue to

55:08to demonstrate into the future.

55:10Um but it needs to be the right tool for

55:12the right job. And uh we need to

55:15identify a problem that it makes sense

55:17to solve um for implementing it to to

55:20solve that problem.

55:22Um so one thing that I would like to

55:25solicit some feedback from um at the end

55:27of of this component of the

55:30presentation, the geospatial component,

55:32um is to determine uh if there are

55:36certain problems uh or focused areas uh

55:39that council would like to receive

55:41information on.

55:43Um and that is something that we can

55:45communicate to staff and evaluate

55:48whether geospatial analysis makes sense

55:50for those problems and in what form that

55:53might take.

55:54Um or whether this is more of a general

55:57interest in seeing more financial data

56:01on display from a map visualization

56:02standpoint. Um if there is just more of

56:05a an interest in seeing

56:08uh

56:09geospatial analysis used to to help

56:12visualize some of the data that we may

56:13already have on hand um and whether

56:16there are applications that we can

56:18potentially use to to just communicate

56:20information that's already available um

56:23from maybe more of a a top-down

56:25Mooresville

56:26visualization standpoint.

56:29Um in line with some of that, uh one

56:32thing that we are working on developing

56:34into 2027 is an updated report.

56:38Uh

56:39this uh is similar to the demographic

56:41report that was uh released and

56:43presented in 2014.

56:46Um and displayed information on

56:49Mooresville's population characteristics

56:52um as well as workforce characteristics,

56:55uh where people live um what type of

56:58professions people are most heavily

57:00involved with um where Mooresville's

57:02population works, where the jobs

57:04located, then Mooresville are

57:05centralized, what are job inflow and

57:08outflow are.

57:09Um this could be an example of some of

57:12that financial data being displayed in a

57:14map form um and depending on what

57:17council is or is not interested in,

57:20uh may state some of that desire to see

57:22financial data displayed uh from a map

57:25standpoint.

57:28All right. Um so I'm going to to pause

57:31here and open this up for questions uh

57:34regarding

57:35geospatial analysis.

57:37There are anything that like

57:40something

57:41whatever questions we might have about

57:43what we've covered so far and potential

57:45applications for it.

57:48>> How would you like to call for questions

57:49or you want me to help you facilitate

57:50that?

57:51>> Yes, certainly so Council

57:54and Johnson's.

57:57>> Thank you for

57:58pausing cuz there's going to be quite a

58:00few questions I think throughout this

58:03session.

58:05I think before we kind of look at

58:08whether or not we want geospatial

58:10analysis, we have to understand the

58:12value of geospatial analysis. It's not

58:15just financial data or population data.

58:19There are algorithms that are associated

58:21with the allocation of sales tax for

58:23Wake County for each municipality that

58:26provides us with revenue generation. So

58:30several years ago we used geospatial

58:32analysis and demographics to understand

58:36the value of doing a special census in

58:39the town. That special census

58:42um

58:43was funded by the council and we were

58:47able to identify the fact that our

58:49growth rate was extremely significant

58:52over the estimated rate,

58:54reestablish our population and adjust it

58:58and therefore we were awarded more sales

59:01tax and more revenue to the town were

59:04versus having it 5 years later.

59:08We're in a state of

59:10approaching

59:12buildout

59:13both in a residential and a commercial

59:15sense so that rate of change of

59:19demographics is probably not significant

59:21like it was in years prior. But I see

59:24this area of geospatial analysis as

59:27being another opportunity to think about

59:30both revenue and investment.

59:33And it's not just a matter of

59:35demographics, but it's like

59:37what can we do because we know

59:40how big the town is going to be

59:42physically.

59:44We're looking at redevelopment.

59:46And what are some signals or some

59:49opportunities or some trends that are

59:51happening within the town?

59:54And then look outside and see trends

59:58for Wake County in the region.

1:00:00So, that is how I am looking at this

1:00:03um

1:00:04opportunity for geospatial. Now, as it

1:00:07goes to the way that

1:00:10you're sharing there's staff costs and

1:00:12everything, I am delighted that we have

1:00:16the capability of doing this in-house.

1:00:20A lot of our services we have to hire

1:00:23consultants. And then when they go away,

1:00:26that competency goes away. If we have

1:00:29the in-house expertise, then we can do

1:00:32this on a regular basis, whatever that

1:00:35is annually, quarterly, or or whatever

1:00:38is needed for the project that we've

1:00:40assigned to it. So,

1:00:43I think this is a good thing and

1:00:47I would hope that the council would look

1:00:49at this as an opportunity. Thank you.

1:00:53>> If if I may

1:00:55interject there just just briefly. While

1:00:57we we certainly do have

1:01:00I believe some capable staff members

1:01:02with GIS experience.

1:01:05I would um

1:01:07I think he'll overrule me if if he feels

1:01:09differently. Um

1:01:11just caution against saying that that we

1:01:13can certainly do anything in-house.

1:01:16There there may be certain tasks that

1:01:19that we are well equipped to to handle

1:01:21in-house and and there may be other ones

1:01:24that um we we may

1:01:25>> I didn't imply we can do it everything

1:01:27because we are a small town, but we do

1:01:30have competency here.

1:01:32And we we have done in the past and we

1:01:34have the same staff member here that

1:01:36probably could upskill to different

1:01:38things.

1:01:39So, I want to be a little excited here

1:01:42and you're being very um neutral and I

1:01:45appreciate that, but

1:01:48this is going to cost money in order to

1:01:50do this. So, we either have to be

1:01:52excited about it or not, you know, and I

1:01:54I personally want to make sure the town

1:01:57is really um

1:02:00embracing opportunities for growth and

1:02:03strength. And we have to get more data,

1:02:07otherwise we're guessing and we're

1:02:08blind. Thanks.

1:02:12>> Mayor Putney Rubottom.

1:02:16>> So,

1:02:18yes, and

1:02:20I'm not entirely sure that I understand

1:02:23the business objective

1:02:25that we're trying

1:02:28to align with here or the

1:02:30or the business problem that we're

1:02:32attempting to solve. Do we

1:02:34in

1:02:36I mean, I want to be excited about this,

1:02:37too.

1:02:39Are is there

1:02:43is there data that we

1:02:45that we

1:02:46can't get any other way? Is there is is

1:02:49someone asking

1:02:51for data that we don't currently have?

1:02:53Like, what's the

1:02:55what's exactly driving this?

1:02:58>> If you don't mind me asking, are you

1:03:00talking about the demographic report

1:03:02specifically or geospatial analysis as a

1:03:05a broad category?

1:03:05>> I'm talking about geospatial analysis as

1:03:07a broad category.

1:03:09>> Um so, I think the the idea of

1:03:12prominently behind that is that there

1:03:13are certain things that are challenging

1:03:16to to visualize um just by looking at

1:03:20numbers that become easier to do and

1:03:24conceptualize when when looking at a

1:03:26map. So to return to one of the previous

1:03:29examples which is identifying the

1:03:31optimal location for public safety

1:03:33station for instance.

1:03:35One of the ways that we can examine that

1:03:38problem that is more difficult to do

1:03:40just from a pure number standpoint or at

1:03:42least is is more challenging for humans

1:03:44to to look at from a pure number

1:03:45standpoint. Is by taking a essentially a

1:03:50route time analysis. And looking at all

1:03:53of the different households within our

1:03:55town borders and seeing from our current

1:03:58stations

1:04:00where the the largest group

1:04:03of households are that that are the

1:04:05furthest distance away essentially. And

1:04:08that serves as as kind of a

1:04:10guide point for this is a a potentially

1:04:13more vulnerable part of the community.

1:04:16And this this serves as a a potential

1:04:19location that would potentially make

1:04:21more sense to to

1:04:24institute a location.

1:04:25Kind of going along with that a heat map

1:04:28of of incidents. You can have like a

1:04:32series of addresses. But that can be

1:04:35difficult to to visualize if you're just

1:04:37seeing that there versus placing those

1:04:39on on a map and being able to

1:04:41>> Sure but we I remember that we we

1:04:44actually did that I remember the fire

1:04:46department whoever was the chief back

1:04:48then when we were deciding on the

1:04:49location for the new station they showed

1:04:52us the heat map.

1:04:53So

1:04:54I guess

1:04:56So is this new or this is something

1:04:58you're considering implementing or

1:05:01because it seems like

1:05:03it seems like we have some of that

1:05:04capability already.

1:05:06>> We do. So the that example and and the

1:05:08previous examples on the slide

1:05:11were

1:05:12examples of how we have already

1:05:14incorporated geospatial analysis in

1:05:16Morsel activities.

1:05:18Um, so the the primary purpose of of

1:05:22this portion of the presentation,

1:05:24geospatial analysis has been a a topic

1:05:27that has been

1:05:28um brought up at a previous round table

1:05:31as something that was indicated as

1:05:34potential interest for the town to

1:05:36investigate, um potentially

1:05:38incorporating further into its

1:05:41activities, particularly regarding

1:05:43financial analytics.

1:05:45Um, so this presentation is um a bit of

1:05:48a a reminder uh

1:05:51a catch up on on what geospatial

1:05:53analysis is,

1:05:55um what its applications have been for

1:05:57Morsel in the past, how some additional

1:05:59applications that we may not have used

1:06:01yet could be pulled into that financial

1:06:04world, um and then some of the the costs

1:06:07that that might come along with it.

1:06:09>> Okay, so if I'm following correctly,

1:06:13we've used geospatial analysis in the

1:06:15past. It's a a

1:06:18technology, a framework, a whatever that

1:06:21you're comfortable with and that

1:06:23delivers accurate results.

1:06:25And there are

1:06:27different applications of it

1:06:29that we could implement

1:06:31that might give us better information

1:06:34on the financial health of the town. Is

1:06:36that where we are?

1:06:37>> I I believe that there are there are

1:06:39certain problems that that can be aided

1:06:42in in the application of geospatial

1:06:45analysis if those problems are are what

1:06:47council indicates they're interested in

1:06:50us looking into, yes.

1:06:54I don't mean to to be dodging with with

1:06:56that answer, but I I think I think the

1:06:58the the broad

1:07:00conclusion that that I I guess I'm more

1:07:01trying to get to is

1:07:03I think it depends on on what council is

1:07:06is interested in in looking into.

1:07:08It It's It's It's a tool

1:07:11that can be applied to to a suite of

1:07:14problems and and depending on on what

1:07:16areas of interest

1:07:18we are part interested in in looking at,

1:07:22it can be a useful piece of analysis and

1:07:26maybe less so in in other areas.

1:07:28>> Okay.

1:07:30Could you provide a use case?

1:07:33Something that we might Like I don't

1:07:34actually I don't think I understand.

1:07:38I feel like I'm being asked a question

1:07:39that I don't know what that question is.

1:07:42Can you provide like a use case?

1:07:47I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt,

1:07:49but I want to be clear. Paul's here

1:07:51because we need to level set. He's here

1:07:53because we asked for this. He's not here

1:07:56promoting anything. We asked to

1:07:58understand how we are using this now and

1:08:02then what we can do in the future. But

1:08:05he has no clue what we wanted for. So

1:08:07that's why he's struggling and I'm not

1:08:09You're doing a fabulous job. Your

1:08:11presentation is fabulous, but I agree,

1:08:13Anne. I think that's the struggle here.

1:08:16He has no We have not indicated what

1:08:19what our concern is. That's why his

1:08:21slide nine is fabulous. What is

1:08:23council's interest? We never told him

1:08:25that. We just said this is a solution we

1:08:27want.

1:08:28>> Right. So that's why I'm asking for a

1:08:30use case. I'm saying if you

1:08:32>> agree.

1:08:32>> If you give me a use case, I'll tell you

1:08:34if I'm interested.

1:08:35Right now, I frankly I mean I The slides

1:08:38are lovely. You're doing a great job. I

1:08:40still don't know what this does.

1:08:43>> Um so some potential ways that this

1:08:45could be used to uh

1:08:49potentially further

1:08:51our

1:08:52financial understanding of more so I

1:08:54think

1:08:55could come through that demographic

1:08:58report on which we were talking about

1:08:59earlier. So

1:09:01one the that I think this this can be

1:09:03helpful in sort of understanding the

1:09:05financial landscape of the town,

1:09:08um, is by showing where, uh, most of our

1:09:10jobs are concentrated,

1:09:12um, where our population works, uh, our

1:09:15highest density in terms of both

1:09:18residents and where people are moving

1:09:20to.

1:09:21Um,

1:09:22and that can be used for a number of

1:09:24different applications, like potentially

1:09:26projecting where future tax revenue will

1:09:28be likely to come from, um, where

1:09:31potential needs might be for additional

1:09:33public transit stops in the future.

1:09:36Um,

1:09:37I I think there's there's a number of of

1:09:39different potential applications out

1:09:41there. Uh,

1:09:43it's it's it's

1:09:44I guess difficult to to articulate use

1:09:48in in some sense beyond just just kind

1:09:50of general ideas, um, with without

1:09:53something of a a direction to to to move

1:09:55towards.

1:09:57>> Okay. All right, thank you.

1:09:59>> Absolutely.

1:10:00>> I'm not trying to be difficult, really.

1:10:01You're doing a fabulous job.

1:10:08All right.

1:10:09>> Any other questions?

1:10:10>> I didn't want to say anything.

1:10:11>> [laughter]

1:10:12>> I just I had to get that out there.

1:10:15>> Council member Castaneda, you?

1:10:16>> So,

1:10:18>> um,

1:10:20this is something that I had mentioned

1:10:21back at the retreat, um,

1:10:23and what is, uh,

1:10:25generating this is, uh,

1:10:27um, that taxes are our largest revenue

1:10:31source, 57% of the budget, um, this year

1:10:34at least.

1:10:36Taxes are derived from property values.

1:10:38Property values are affected by land use

1:10:40decisions.

1:10:42We have limited land.

1:10:44We are, um,

1:10:46you know, tightening the belt a little

1:10:47bit this year. Um,

1:10:50revenue is is revenue growth is slowing,

1:10:52so the goal is to ensure that we are

1:10:55making efficient use of the limited land

1:10:57we have, not just targeting land use

1:11:00with a high value, but land use with a

1:11:02high value per acre, because our acres

1:11:04are limited. In addition to

1:11:06understanding the costs associated with

1:11:08different land use types,

1:11:10um utilizing uh

1:11:13geospatial analysis is one of the ways

1:11:15to do this in a way that is able to be

1:11:17more comprehended um and understood in a

1:11:20visual way.

1:11:22And an example of um

1:11:24what this might uh result in, um I just

1:11:27have a project sheet from uh

1:11:30something that was done in Wilson

1:11:31County, North Carolina, um that says

1:11:33this analysis examines how land use

1:11:35choices influence the fiscal health of

1:11:36communities. The aim of that project was

1:11:39to provide communities with a more

1:11:41complete financial understanding of the

1:11:42impact of their existing development

1:11:44patterns, and to provide information for

1:11:46future land use decisions. Key findings

1:11:48from that project for them was that the

1:11:51analysis revealed that mixed-use

1:11:52[clears throat] main street style

1:11:53properties generate the most value per

1:11:55acre. The entire region has a

1:11:57substantial opportunity to improve their

1:11:59productivity through infill development

1:12:00on their vacant land, and prioritizing

1:12:02compact, dense residential and

1:12:04commercial development will give the

1:12:06region the best chance at covering its

1:12:08infrastructure costs. So, the question

1:12:10is,

1:12:11what key findings would we find for

1:12:13Morrisville that would help us make um

1:12:17land use decisions in the future

1:12:20um that will put us on the strongest

1:12:21financial footing?

1:12:26>> That's helpful.

1:12:30>> So, how do we make land use decisions

1:12:32right now

1:12:34without this?

1:12:36>> You know.

1:12:37>> Mhm.

1:12:37>> No.

1:12:40>> So,

1:12:41your land use plan is the primary means

1:12:44by which you make land use decisions

1:12:46right now. Uh and then, you know, from

1:12:48the land use plan, which is not zoning,

1:12:50but is the guide that

1:12:52identified what the zoning could be and

1:12:55then the zoning may get updated as you

1:12:56go. So I think the TOD right now is

1:12:59probably one of the best examples of how

1:13:01you're using land use plan. You know, we

1:13:04have sub areas, we have the town centers

1:13:05and other really good example of that's

1:13:07a designated sub area for a purpose. TOD

1:13:10is also a designated sub area for a

1:13:12purpose. So right now you primarily do

1:13:14it by that. Now again, that's not always

1:13:17exclusively about necessarily maximizing

1:13:20the value and it doesn't necessarily

1:13:22completely evaluate, you know, the the

1:13:24cost of what might come there, but that

1:13:26is how you're your primary means right

1:13:28now controlling for what goes where and

1:13:30why.

1:13:33>> Thank you.

1:13:37All right. Any other questions

1:13:39surrounding special

1:13:41Sorry.

1:13:43>> So I

1:13:44um

1:13:45we're already using this

1:13:47or we have used this to make some land

1:13:49use decisions in the past.

1:13:52>> That is correct. So the the land use map

1:13:54um is listed on the

1:13:57applications that we've incorporated

1:13:59already.

1:14:00>> Yeah. So

1:14:04I don't I don't know what So I I guess

1:14:06I'm struggling like you are and I'm

1:14:08like, okay, what what it

1:14:10for me, so instead of talking about

1:14:14what what product, what system, or what

1:14:16method we're going to use, I think for

1:14:19me the conversation should be more about

1:14:22what is it this council wants to help us

1:14:25make decisions moving forward. And if

1:14:28it's

1:14:29What's that?

1:14:29>> It's a business objective.

1:14:30>> Correct. I'm with you I'm with you Ryan.

1:14:32I'm with you on this. So um

1:14:34so if if if this is appropriate, fine.

1:14:39If it's something else, even better.

1:14:42But I guess

1:14:43I I think I'm even I'm struggling at

1:14:46what is it that we all want? I will tell

1:14:48you what I want, but

1:14:50what is it we all want to tell Paul our

1:14:53our need is and we need moving forward

1:14:57making decisions. For me,

1:14:59not only is it land use, but is it it's

1:15:02the value of the decisions we're making,

1:15:05the financial impact to the town of

1:15:08Mooresville for its [clears throat]

1:15:10future resiliency and sustainability as

1:15:13an entity, as a as a great place to live

1:15:16and work and be affordable.

1:15:19Um that's what I want. Um and and if

1:15:23that's this is the answer, fabulous. If

1:15:25this isn't the answer, tell me what that

1:15:27is. Um but I think that's

1:15:30quite frankly the information he needs

1:15:32from us. Um

1:15:33cuz even I'm a little struggling a

1:15:36little bit on um

1:15:38And I think

1:15:40anyhow, yeah. That's all I'll say right

1:15:42now.

1:15:43>> Councilman Kusumi.

1:15:46With the

1:15:48the last uh

1:15:50bullet item there with the system with

1:15:51the development of the land use plan,

1:15:53did was fiscal productivity

1:15:56a part of that

1:15:58assistance?

1:15:59I thought that's a question.

1:16:03>> So yes, it was. I I remember that

1:16:06actually even a part of

1:16:11I remember it actually being a part of

1:16:13sub area plans. I mean you had to even

1:16:15go even farther to even visualize what

1:16:17would look [cough] like, but it also

1:16:18accounted for what was that uh impact in

1:16:22a revenue sense. I'm getting a nod from

1:16:24Michelle.

1:16:25Um I'm going to also take it a step

1:16:27farther back uh and I have Rodney here

1:16:30for a reason cuz he'll remember this.

1:16:32When we were even looking at

1:16:35redevelopment of the Androscoggin site

1:16:37which is now aka the Park West site, we

1:16:41did a very very in-depth analysis on

1:16:44what would be that revenue turnaround,

1:16:46that that impact to changing that use

1:16:49and the level of density. And so, it was

1:16:52back then, Michelle might was not

1:16:54actually here at the time, but it was a

1:16:56like a sub area plan evaluation. And it

1:16:59was mapping out with John Woods, who was

1:17:02your town manager, and with Rodney,

1:17:05really what was that impact going to

1:17:06look like, the density, the value per

1:17:09acre really was something we considered.

1:17:12Um, very, very conservative. And the

1:17:15outcomes far exceeded our analysis and

1:17:18our model at the time. But, it did help

1:17:20inform some decisions. But, that's very

1:17:23similar back then to what you saw what

1:17:25you have seen with Michelle's work and

1:17:27her team's work through the TOD. Um, and

1:17:31and even with town center to a certain

1:17:33extent.

1:17:35The McCribben Corridor was another one,

1:17:37yes.

1:17:40>> So, if we have used this kind of

1:17:42analysis before, then what are you

1:17:43proposing here?

1:17:44So,

1:17:46>> So, let me try and jump in if I can in

1:17:49there.

1:17:50>> Right.

1:17:50>> So, again, this this is primarily a

1:17:53response to a question that was raised

1:17:55at the retreat. Um, we've had, you know,

1:17:57geospatial

1:18:00brought up on a number of occasions in

1:18:02different meetings and different

1:18:03conversations. So, I think some of this

1:18:04is to show you that we are doing some

1:18:07geospatial. I think it's also to show

1:18:09you that there are some other

1:18:10opportunities that we would bring back

1:18:12to you when appropriate. I think one of

1:18:14the more significant opportunities is

1:18:16probably the next land use plan update.

1:18:19You know, so where it was 2019, so we're

1:18:21certainly coming up on that in the next

1:18:23two to three to four years, ish. I know,

1:18:26again, a conversation we had, but I

1:18:28think that would be, you know, when you

1:18:30may really look to this a little bit

1:18:32more as is this an emphasis more so than

1:18:34other things you might have considered

1:18:36in the past as how you develop that land

1:18:38use plan and how much does council want

1:18:42to make decisions based on things that

1:18:45you might find with geospatial that

1:18:47might be different from the way we've

1:18:49done things before and looking at you

1:18:51know, not just

1:18:53what do we want there, but what's you

1:18:55know, is it the highest and best use or

1:18:56you going to focus more around well,

1:18:58what's the cost of putting that there?

1:19:00You know, what's the cost now your fire

1:19:01department your police department and

1:19:03other things like that. I think that's

1:19:05some of what um the the sort of question

1:19:08was. So, I don't think we have a

1:19:09specific ask of you tonight. It's more

1:19:12of we want to share this information

1:19:13with you. We want to show you how it can

1:19:15be used and and sort of plant that seed

1:19:17for you so that as we come up on other

1:19:18projects, other decisions, you we're on

1:19:21the similar baseline as to what we're

1:19:23even talking about when you hear

1:19:24geospatial.

1:19:27>> Thank you.

1:19:32>> I'll just make one more comment. So, um

1:19:35thank you Brandon. That was helpful, but

1:19:37uh

1:19:37as we're looking uh to maybe like you

1:19:42you Paul talked about um you know,

1:19:44different applications or contractors,

1:19:47you know, whatever, consultants.

1:19:49I I don't care what what whatever that

1:19:52is and whatever that looks like going

1:19:54forward, there needs to be a a real um

1:19:59there needs to be some information there

1:20:00needs to be some cost justification. I'm

1:20:03I'm not I'm not interested in spending

1:20:04any money um just because we have a nice

1:20:07tool that will give us some nice

1:20:09information. It needs to be

1:20:12real specific about how we're going to

1:20:14use it and how we can justify the cost

1:20:17of it moving forward.

1:20:18>> The tool analogy is excellent. This is

1:20:20another tool in the toolbox. It's a tool

1:20:22that we've used to some extent in some

1:20:24circumstances. It could be used perhaps

1:20:27a little bit more as we move forward

1:20:29with some decision making.

1:20:30But excellent point. Thank

1:20:33Mayor Pro Tem Rabady.

1:20:36>> So, I'm just going to bottom line what I

1:20:39want,

1:20:39which is

1:20:41I want you to bring me

1:20:43the best information that's available

1:20:46to help me make a decision.

1:20:48I I want if it's

1:20:50the highest and best use, definitely

1:20:53bring me that. If it's some type of

1:20:55cost-benefit analysis, bring me that. I

1:20:59I don't

1:21:00I don't actually care how you get there

1:21:03as much as

1:21:04I don't even

1:21:06I don't even think I need to weigh in on

1:21:08how you get there.

1:21:10To me, as long as

1:21:14as long as you've looked at it every

1:21:16different way

1:21:18and you can show me

1:21:21the things

1:21:22that most guided your recommendations,

1:21:27then I'm happy.

1:21:28So, I I think that's where

1:21:30I'm coming down on the whole thing. If I

1:21:31mean, if this is it, then use it. Great,

1:21:33you know.

1:21:36Yeah.

1:21:39>> I'm Mayor Collins.

1:21:42Oh, my apologies, Councilman Wilson.

1:21:44>> Thank you, Councilman. Um

1:21:46So, yeah. I I like the idea. Just bring

1:21:49us the data that we need. I was thinking

1:21:50that this

1:21:53Um I've seen some graphs and stuff which

1:21:54were really cool, but how much can we

1:21:56actually move the needle at this point?

1:21:58What is our authority when it comes to

1:22:01the new land use plan whether or not we

1:22:03can actually say yes, that should be the

1:22:05highest and best use

1:22:06or when they redevelop, they're just

1:22:08going to build the same thing again,

1:22:09just one

1:22:10one floor higher. So, I think there's

1:22:12another layer here in so far as all the

1:22:15data is great and we would ideally like

1:22:17the town to be this,

1:22:20but we can't make that happen. The

1:22:21market has to make that happen and the

1:22:24legislature might be stopping us from

1:22:26even guiding the people in a certain

1:22:28direction. So,

1:22:29um

1:22:30this

1:22:32this data would have been great 15 years

1:22:34ago when there was a lot more building

1:22:36to be done, but right now I think it's

1:22:38going to be really helpful during

1:22:39redevelopment in so far as

1:22:42we know what we would hope our economic

1:22:45development department would be seeking

1:22:46to bring to us

1:22:48um

1:22:49to make it more likely for those

1:22:51investments to come into the town that

1:22:53make us more financially

1:22:56um fiscally stable

1:22:58going forward cuz as we know

1:22:59everything's getting tighter.

1:23:01So, I think this is just another tool

1:23:05and as we grow our expertise in this

1:23:06space, I think it's going to help us

1:23:08make better decisions

1:23:10as much as we're allowed to.

1:23:15>> What other program do you have there?

1:23:17>> I'm sorry.

1:23:22>> Any closing comments on geospatial

1:23:24analysis?

1:23:25>> We're good.

1:23:28>> All right.

1:23:30Um then we'll move on to the the second

1:23:33uh component uh the presentation um

1:23:35which surrounds more of our traditional

1:23:37uh financial reporting and Strong Towns

1:23:40financing tool.

1:23:42Um

1:23:44so uh

1:23:45currently we um incorporate uh a number

1:23:48of different uh mechanisms for um

1:23:50financial reporting.

1:23:52Um similar to geospatial analysis, uh we

1:23:55try to take an approach uh using the

1:23:57right tool for the right job.

1:23:59Um and making sure that the data that we

1:24:02put in place um is accurate and speaks

1:24:05to the measure that we are trying to to

1:24:07communicate forward. Um right tool wrong

1:24:10tool [cough and clears throat] in the

1:24:11the wrong situation uh can be dangerous

1:24:14and even if it's the right tool, um

1:24:16there can be challenges if the

1:24:17interpretations of that tool is is not

1:24:19being expressed properly.

1:24:22Some of the

1:24:23more consistent tools that we put in

1:24:25place currently, um

1:24:27I split these up into to three parts. Uh

1:24:30on the financial reporting side, um our

1:24:32annual comprehensive financial report,

1:24:34and then the quarterly financial reports

1:24:36that accompany them.

1:24:38Um we have our annual audit, of course,

1:24:40and then some of our financial health

1:24:41metrics uh that we report forward on our

1:24:43strategic planning dashboard.

1:24:46Uh efficiencies and revenues, um these

1:24:48are primarily ways that we seek to

1:24:50supplement the tax revenue that we

1:24:52receive and really work on this much

1:24:53farther.

1:24:55Uh grant applications, uh our town staff

1:24:57does an excellent job of looking for

1:24:59opportunities to to bring in um

1:25:01additional funding through grants

1:25:03without having to charge our citizens

1:25:04more.

1:25:05Uh collaboration projects, um like the

1:25:08Camel Lights, uh to make it uh easier

1:25:11for us to uh serve our community um

1:25:14without needing to expand um

1:25:17our our staff and and our seating

1:25:20capacities in different places.

1:25:22Uh and then also seeking process

1:25:23improvements where possible to address

1:25:26inefficiencies and and bottlenecks

1:25:28without needing to uh require additional

1:25:30funding or resources.

1:25:33And then lastly, uh under budgeting,

1:25:35um we we put metrics and performance

1:25:38elements into our budget request

1:25:41uh to try and tie it back and make sure

1:25:42that anything that we're requesting from

1:25:44a budget component is something that we

1:25:46have justified, we have run through the

1:25:49quantitative ringer. We've

1:25:51addressed it and made sure that there is

1:25:52a a need for it and we can show it

1:25:54through data.

1:25:55Um debt model planning, and then one

1:25:58element that I want to to highlight a

1:25:59little bit, um especially since this

1:26:02kind of came up in the discussions in

1:26:04the General Assembly um surrounding uh

1:26:07how these counties [clears throat] and

1:26:09local governments budget, um we do a

1:26:12heavy amount uh long-range financial

1:26:14planning to help project out where the

1:26:15town will be not just next year or the

1:26:19year after, but in future years. Um some

1:26:21comments were made during some of the

1:26:23discussion sessions regarding the

1:26:25property tax levy limit, um focusing on

1:26:28shortsightedness, uh local government

1:26:30budgeting, and how it tends to only

1:26:32center around um the next fiscal year.

1:26:34And while we do have budgets for next

1:26:37fiscal year, obviously, um we do project

1:26:40out where we will be um moving forward

1:26:42well beyond that uh to try and give our

1:26:45staff as best as possible um the

1:26:47resources that we have, how we need to

1:26:49plan accordingly, and be able to

1:26:51anticipate needs well in advance of when

1:26:54they arrive.

1:26:57Um another tool that has been uh

1:27:01requested for investigation by council

1:27:04to potentially add to this repertoire

1:27:07uh is the Strong Towns Finance Decoder.

1:27:10Um so Strong Towns is a an organization

1:27:14uh that is uh dedicated as a community

1:27:19analysis uh component um with the

1:27:21tagline to help understand whether your

1:27:23city is on track to keep its

1:27:25development, service, and growth

1:27:27promises. Um it operates under the

1:27:30belief that uh current urban planning is

1:27:33fundamentally broken, and uh that there

1:27:36needs to be a new approach um to how we

1:27:39view land use, uh and how we plan moving

1:27:43forward in order to ensure that our

1:27:45cities are lively,

1:27:48and care for our residents.

1:27:51Um the Finance Decoder is one tool in

1:27:54that uh that is designed from a finance

1:27:57uh accountability standpoint, um and it

1:28:00is a series of seven metrics uh that

1:28:03have its data pulled um from our annual

1:28:06comprehensive financial report.

1:28:10Um

1:28:11town staff uh has investigated the

1:28:14finance decoder tool.

1:28:16We have done our own extensive research

1:28:19on the metrics and the the background

1:28:22that they come from.

1:28:24Um we've engaged with a number of

1:28:26different organizations that have strong

1:28:28backing in North Carolina local

1:28:31government finance, including UNC School

1:28:33of Government,

1:28:35um

1:28:36the NCLM,

1:28:38and the GFOA.

1:28:40Uh we also had the opportunity to talk

1:28:43with a member of Strong Towns who

1:28:45oversees the finance decoder tool

1:28:47directly, um and had the ability to

1:28:50communicate and and ask some questions

1:28:52from him for how these these metrics are

1:28:54incorporated.

1:28:56Um Strong Towns staff member indicated

1:28:58that these metrics were recommended by

1:29:00the Canadian Association of Government

1:29:02Finance Officers.

1:29:04Um these metrics are put forward as kind

1:29:08of standard use by the GFOA and are

1:29:11relatively commonplace in

1:29:14assessing

1:29:16governments under that purview.

1:29:19Uh there are some concerns with applying

1:29:22those metrics to North Carolina

1:29:25local government finance. Um in many

1:29:28cases,

1:29:30discussions with the Strong Towns member

1:29:32indicated that there were certain

1:29:34components

1:29:36financial line items that are reported

1:29:39in the annual comprehensive financial

1:29:41report that were expected to be a

1:29:43component um that are not the case for

1:29:46North Carolina.

1:29:47Um so I'll jump into an example of it.

1:29:51I'm going to go through examples and

1:29:53then discuss in depth two out of the

1:29:55seven metrics here. Um the other five,

1:29:58if there are specific questions about

1:30:00them, we can return to them after the

1:30:01fact. Um but in the interest of time,

1:30:03we'll primarily be addressing two here.

1:30:06So the first is net book value to cost

1:30:10of capital assets.

1:30:12So, this is

1:30:14an attempt to examine the job that the

1:30:17city is doing at maintaining its

1:30:19infrastructure and physical assets.

1:30:22This metric is taken by

1:30:26looking at the

1:30:28components of the ACFR that looks at our

1:30:32net book value of capital assets and

1:30:35then compares them to current value of

1:30:38those assets

1:30:39in the year that the the report is

1:30:41listed.

1:30:43So, this includes new buildings, lands,

1:30:46and other elements that add value,

1:30:49which introduces

1:30:51one potential area concern.

1:30:54Land is is something for us that just

1:30:56appreciates in value and as much as I

1:31:01tend to support any metric that that

1:31:03makes us look better,

1:31:04that does tend to inflate our score,

1:31:07which is something that was acknowledged

1:31:09by the member of town staff that we

1:31:10spoke with.

1:31:12This does not include any operational

1:31:14assets that we might participate in

1:31:16maintenance on. So, anything under

1:31:18$5,000 is not included.

1:31:20And it does not include large-scale or

1:31:22maintenance on large-scale public assets

1:31:24like sidewalks and streets.

1:31:27And this is, I believe, particularly

1:31:29important

1:31:30because the member of Strong Towns that

1:31:32we talked to indicated that this is one

1:31:33of the primary elements that it is

1:31:35intended to measure.

1:31:37And this is an area that

1:31:39appears to be a component of that

1:31:42particular line item that is included in

1:31:46financial reports that they had looked

1:31:48at under the CAFR's purview

1:31:51that is not included in North Carolina

1:31:54financial reporting.

1:31:56So, attempting to apply those metrics

1:31:58here may present a a

1:32:01picture um or at least not the complete

1:32:04picture that is intended by Strong Towns

1:32:07of whether the city is falling behind on

1:32:09maintenance as as the metric um

1:32:11indicates.

1:32:13Uh another metric uh that we like to

1:32:15highlight is the government transfers to

1:32:18total revenue. Uh so this is essentially

1:32:21the percentage of our total revenue that

1:32:24is accounted for by state or federal aid

1:32:29um or

1:32:29>> [clears throat and cough]

1:32:29>> grants.

1:32:31This metric is primarily intended to

1:32:34represent um the degree of dependency

1:32:37that local governments have on revenue

1:32:40from state or local governments.

1:32:43Uh and any sort of grants um

1:32:47uh revenue that that is brought in

1:32:49uh from the state or federal governments

1:32:51from that year is is incorporated in

1:32:53here.

1:32:54A couple of concerns that that surround

1:32:57this metric um is that it does not

1:32:59necessarily separate uh dependency from

1:33:02things that are

1:33:04not unimportant but which we can

1:33:07probably survive without.

1:33:09Um so a significant portion of the

1:33:11grants that we apply for as a town

1:33:14uh are very beneficial to our residents

1:33:16and I do not mean in any way, shape, or

1:33:18form to diminish their importance.

1:33:20Um but they are probably things that we

1:33:23can survive without uh as a town if we

1:33:26needed to. They would not necessarily be

1:33:28critical to our our operational

1:33:30existence.

1:33:32Um these elements are are rolled up into

1:33:35this metric um and the the decrease that

1:33:38you see over time is probably more

1:33:41representative uh of how good of a job

1:33:44we have done uh in securing grant

1:33:46funding for a particular year for those

1:33:49quote unquote nice to haves um rather

1:33:51than a a pure metric of dependency. Um

1:33:55in in some cases there would think is a

1:33:57a reasonable argument to be made that a

1:33:59higher value represents a better outcome

1:34:02for us and that we have been more

1:34:04successful at securing grant fundings

1:34:06for some of these more nice-to-haves

1:34:09um than

1:34:11a measure of dependency.

1:34:14Um, in talking with Strong Towns, uh

1:34:16they confirmed this metric is generally

1:34:18more aimed at governments who are

1:34:20relying on large-scale external funding

1:34:23for very broad projects uh that would be

1:34:26very problematic for a community if

1:34:28funding were to cease for.

1:34:30Um, so large-scale facilities or like a

1:34:32wastewater treatment plant. Um,

1:34:35but even within these realms, uh there

1:34:38are some challenges with the the way

1:34:40that the the metric is presented. Um, so

1:34:44just to to go back to the the previous

1:34:46slide,

1:34:47um the the metric in and of itself is

1:34:49just the percentage of revenue for that

1:34:53year that is made up um from that

1:34:55funding from the state or federal

1:34:56government. Which means if a government

1:34:59were to hypothetically receive funding

1:35:01for a large-scale project and then that

1:35:04funding were to be pulled completely

1:35:07within the next year, that percentage

1:35:10would drop entirely, which by the

1:35:13metric's own

1:35:14assessment, by its own description,

1:35:17indicates that the government is

1:35:18becoming less reliant on external

1:35:20funding.

1:35:22In reality, the government has become no

1:35:24less reliant on external funding. It

1:35:26just means there's a big vacuum now that

1:35:29needs to be filled from somewhere and

1:35:31which will probably create huge issue

1:35:33for that that government.

1:35:35And in talking with the member of Strong

1:35:37Towns, uh he conceded that that was a a

1:35:40concern,

1:35:41um but argued that it was still a a

1:35:45worthwhile point of consideration

1:35:48um because it had the potential to start

1:35:50a conversation surrounding uh town

1:35:53finances and uh how money was was being

1:35:56allocated.

1:35:57And while I do agree that there is value

1:36:00in the the beginning of the

1:36:02conversation,

1:36:04I do want to stress what I believe is is

1:36:07the importance of providing for any tool

1:36:10that we might highlight or push forward

1:36:12to our residents,

1:36:13the importance of providing accurate and

1:36:16um

1:36:17reliable information to our residents.

1:36:21One just from a a standpoint of

1:36:24accountability and making sure that we

1:36:27are being honest and forthcoming with

1:36:29our residents to the greatest degree

1:36:31possible. But two also because

1:36:34inaccurate information can also result

1:36:37in questions and concerns being brought

1:36:40to staff, which can eat into their

1:36:44resources and time and and having to to

1:36:46answer and explain why

1:36:49certain data or certain metrics may not

1:36:51be as applicable as as the data or the

1:36:54descriptions might indicate they are.

1:37:02All right.

1:37:03So I'm going to skip through

1:37:06the rest and we can return to those

1:37:08specific metrics if there are particular

1:37:11concerns or questions about them.

1:37:14A couple final comments on

1:37:20The data that is input on Strong Towns

1:37:24is located

1:37:26on a publicly accessible Google Sheets

1:37:29file

1:37:30that you can access through a link on

1:37:32their website.

1:37:33>> Wait, what?

1:37:35>> Yep.

1:37:35>> Yep, so we can

1:37:40>> Anyone can can act edit this data.

1:37:44There has been confirmed by the the

1:37:47member that we talked with. Uh there is

1:37:49currently no process in place um to

1:37:52ensure that the data are accurate

1:37:55uh or that a a mistake has not been

1:37:57made.

1:37:58Um descriptions of the metrics are also

1:38:01similarly open to being changed at any

1:38:04time.

1:38:05And while I I do not necessarily believe

1:38:07that anyone in our community possesses

1:38:10malevolent or malicious intents to to

1:38:12try and and make us

1:38:14look bad. Um it it's tool that we might

1:38:18move forward to the public uh and have a

1:38:21large number of people

1:38:23uh engaged or involved with,

1:38:25I do believe is is vulnerable to

1:38:27accidental inputs or someone clicking in

1:38:31a a spot where they maybe shouldn't and

1:38:32and accidentally putting a number in

1:38:34there

1:38:35um and then that potentially generating

1:38:37a

1:38:38a very inaccurate picture uh of town

1:38:41finances and what that might potentially

1:38:43mean for us.

1:38:47Um so to uh

1:38:49conclude with um some staff

1:38:50recommendations, um similar to to

1:38:53geo-spatial analysis,

1:38:55um

1:38:56this is I think kind of a a two-part um

1:38:59component.

1:39:01Uh

1:39:02so we work with uh our different

1:39:04neighboring local governments um and

1:39:06again those third-party agencies that we

1:39:08mentioned earlier, GFOA, school

1:39:10governments, NCLM,

1:39:12um and some individual financial

1:39:13advisers,

1:39:15um to ensure that the metrics we use uh

1:39:18are relevant and and that they

1:39:19ultimately assess and uh relate to the

1:39:21issues that uh that are most relevant

1:39:23for for town financial health.

1:39:26Um we engage heavily with LGC's uh

1:39:29recommended financial metrics um and uh

1:39:32our audit process heavily involves um

1:39:35what the state uh believes is is

1:39:37important to evaluate ourselves on.

1:39:40Um

1:39:41so moving forward, uh if there is

1:39:43additional interest in more financial

1:39:46reporting, um,

1:39:49I believe it would be helpful to have

1:39:51some indication as to if there are

1:39:54certain topics or certain focused areas

1:39:58that there might be particular questions

1:39:59[laughter] around. Um, if there are

1:40:03particular areas of concern about town

1:40:06financial health and

1:40:08our ability to provide in certain areas

1:40:10in the future,

1:40:12please let us know.

1:40:13We can reach out to those agencies and

1:40:15our own staff to make sure that we

1:40:17address those concerns appropriately and

1:40:19we are providing you with the data you

1:40:21need to be able to evaluate those

1:40:23concerns accordingly.

1:40:25Um, if there is a desire for more um,

1:40:31simplified visualization heavy reporting

1:40:34similar to what Strong Towns provides,

1:40:37uh, that is something that we can also

1:40:39work to provide as well.

1:40:41Um, so a couple of options that may be

1:40:44in line to assist with that if there is

1:40:46interest in that direction,

1:40:48uh, we currently provide a quarterly

1:40:49financial report that is published

1:40:52online and presented to council each

1:40:54quarter.

1:40:55Uh, we could look to expand this to

1:40:57allow for additional topics that may

1:40:59interest council if there are particular

1:41:01focal points of interest, um, or provide

1:41:04additional visualizations to help make

1:41:06it easier to digest.

1:41:08We can also look to develop some sort of

1:41:10financial health portal that could speak

1:41:12to some of those LGC metrics that we

1:41:13talked about. Um, and this could serve

1:41:16more as that easy to digest

1:41:18visualization heavy tool um, that

1:41:21highlights some of the best practices

1:41:22that have been agreed upon by financial

1:41:24experts in the state and deliver more of

1:41:27that

1:41:28not oversimplified, but an easier to

1:41:31examine and and to to process overview

1:41:35of the town's financial health

1:41:37than something like the after might be.

1:41:43All right.

1:41:44That concludes the strong town

1:41:46components of the presentation. I'm open

1:41:48it up to questions once again.

1:41:52Uh Mayor Broken.

1:41:54>> Well, you were doing the Lord's work

1:41:56here tonight because I actually

1:41:57understood everything that you just

1:41:59said.

1:42:00Um

1:42:01so

1:42:02I like all of the options that you

1:42:04presented. I think and I think that

1:42:07that's really good information for the

1:42:09public to have, too. Especially if you

1:42:11could put together something and I I'm

1:42:14not speaking for the whole council, but

1:42:15I'm putting out this idea that if if you

1:42:17could tool the different the different

1:42:21revenue sources

1:42:22to understand like what what um

1:42:26what effect it's going to have if we

1:42:28have more apartments, what effect is it

1:42:29going to have, you know, like I think

1:42:31that that would be really helpful to the

1:42:33public. And I think that honestly any

1:42:36simplified visualization that shows the

1:42:39financial health of the town

1:42:42I would love that. Anything that you can

1:42:44do in that area, I would love.

1:42:46Um

1:42:47I do actually want to know

1:42:50I want to understand whether we're

1:42:52falling behind on maintenance, whether

1:42:53we're

1:42:54like

1:42:55what you said that the tool could

1:42:58provide, but I don't necessarily want to

1:43:01get it from tool that's freely editable

1:43:03by

1:43:05everyone. So, if we can make

1:43:09I think that if any strides that we can

1:43:12make in that area of understanding

1:43:15what effect our investments are having

1:43:18and where we're falling short and where

1:43:20we where we might be over investing in

1:43:22some things. Um I think that that would

1:43:24all be very beneficial.

1:43:26So, I I I really appreciate this

1:43:28particularly this section of the

1:43:29presentation because I I like the fact

1:43:33that

1:43:34you I mean I understand that the tool

1:43:37itself has some some

1:43:40data security issues which I take very

1:43:42seriously, but I like the fact that

1:43:45you've extrapolated from that what you

1:43:48could provide to us cuz I do think the

1:43:49information itself is very interesting

1:43:52and will help us make good decisions.

1:43:56>> So

1:43:58basically saying that we like the data

1:44:00but not using this tool and some other

1:44:02tool that's right.

1:44:04>> Well, yeah, I mean I don't necessarily

1:44:05want data out there that's really

1:44:07editable, but I think if we can do it in

1:44:09house, I'm all about that.

1:44:11>> Yeah, I I agree. I mean the data is

1:44:16data security

1:44:18policy that

1:44:20yeah, that's a non-starter for that

1:44:21particular tool, but if you can get

1:44:22similar similar data or visualizations

1:44:26a different way then that would be very

1:44:28valuable.

1:44:31>> Councilman Sprague's responses.

1:44:35>> Um yes they and

1:44:38no pun intended and

1:44:40um

1:44:41I like the idea of the Strong Towns

1:44:44analysis, but I am concerned about the

1:44:46fact that it's editable and that is

1:44:49something that

1:44:51could

1:44:52be confusing to um

1:44:55our public and our staff, you know,

1:44:58ultimately if there is something not

1:45:01controlled. Um

1:45:04if there are, you know,

1:45:08similar

1:45:10North Carolina specific metrics, then

1:45:13that could be construed into the portal

1:45:16or dashboard or or whatever label we

1:45:19give it. I think that is what we want to

1:45:21do and we might be

1:45:24um

1:45:26more innovative than some of the other

1:45:27towns and you know, we have done this

1:45:29before where we've kind of put it out

1:45:32there and then other towns are asking us

1:45:34how do you do that and stuff like that.

1:45:35So, there is some innovation, I think in

1:45:38this concept that could strengthen

1:45:42the public awareness and trade-offs of

1:45:46some of the decisions that we have. With

1:45:48that said,

1:45:50I know that we also have open data

1:45:52available on the website that hasn't

1:45:55necessarily been updated.

1:45:57So, this is different. This is a curated

1:46:01portal

1:46:02of information

1:46:04versus the open data is raw data that

1:46:08can be curated by a third party, you

1:46:11know.

1:46:12So, we haven't mentioned the open data

1:46:15in this presentation, but I just wanted

1:46:18to

1:46:19ask, are we still providing open data

1:46:23currently?

1:46:24I I kind of looked around and I am not

1:46:27an expert, you know, in understanding

1:46:30the website, but I did not see

1:46:33um data sets that I thought would have

1:46:35been more recent. So.

1:46:43>> I've got I've got Ron's email. Feel bad.

1:46:51>> We are still actively

1:46:54monitoring and updating the data when it

1:46:56does become more current.

1:47:00Um some data sets, land use plans, the

1:47:02spatial data more so.

1:47:04They don't change as frequently.

1:47:07Um I do know we do have uh an intern in

1:47:11our

1:47:12our fellow in our office and that is one

1:47:15of her tasks. She's working with Billy

1:47:17and Rick

1:47:19to

1:47:21figure out all the data sets that we do

1:47:23have, uh the best format to put those

1:47:26in,

1:47:27if it's current, if it's

1:47:29clean, if it's

1:47:31complete, etc. etc. So,

1:47:34we do anticipate over the next year or

1:47:37so, with the help of our fellow,

1:47:39improving that site and adding

1:47:41additional data sets.

1:47:43>> Very good.

1:47:45So, thank you for that clarification. Um

1:47:48So, just to be clear, the portal is a

1:47:52curated, visualized

1:47:55um

1:47:56representation [cough]

1:47:57[clears throat] of data.

1:47:58Open data is not is curated to the point

1:48:02that it it's either available or it's

1:48:03not, but it's not provided in a way

1:48:06that's visual. It It's raw, basically.

1:48:09Um

1:48:11Good.

1:48:12>> Yes, yes.

1:48:12>> Okay, very good. Thank you.

1:48:18>> I have a question. So,

1:48:20uh you mentioned that

1:48:22uh the data that uh

1:48:24with this this is Strong Towns, but data

1:48:26is stored in some type some sort of

1:48:28Google spreadsheet that

1:48:30you can just uh anybody can modify?

1:48:33>> Yes, the the data that is uh

1:48:36So, the if you go to the Strong Towns

1:48:38website, it will enter the finance

1:48:41stakeholder page. Um it will bring up a

1:48:43a map

1:48:45uh all the towns that I've added finance

1:48:47stakeholder data entered

1:48:50for them.

1:48:51If you scroll in on Morristown, uh you

1:48:54can click on it and it will give you a

1:48:56link to Morristown's individual finance

1:48:59stakeholder page, um which will bring

1:49:01you to a Google Sheet,

1:49:03uh which displays the charts that you

1:49:06just saw.

1:49:07And then, if you click on the input tab,

1:49:10um it will display all of the data that

1:49:12is feeding into those charts.

1:49:14Uh and we tested it um ourselves. We

1:49:17changed the data back afterwards, but

1:49:19uh, you can edit the data and it will

1:49:22adjust the the charts accordingly. Um,

1:49:24the descriptions can be edited as well.

1:49:27Uh, we

1:49:29talked with the the Strong Towns rep uh,

1:49:31that we had the chance to to engage with

1:49:35um, and asked if there was any sort of

1:49:37uh, after effect like oversight process

1:49:40um,

1:49:41if they did something similar to like

1:49:43Wikipedia where they look at recent

1:49:45edits and and make sure that they're

1:49:47um,

1:49:48you know, in in line with the

1:49:50or or not just

1:49:52basic changes.

1:49:53Uh, and they indicated that there there

1:49:55was no such um, procedure in place at

1:49:58the time.

1:49:59>> Okay. And that was not intentional of

1:50:01changing that, I'm assuming.

1:50:03>> And he did not mention that.

1:50:04>> Okay. Thank you.

1:50:10>> Oh, my apologies.

1:50:13>> That's okay. Um,

1:50:15just my only input is that um, pull I

1:50:18love the idea of having a a financial

1:50:20health portal um, that we can share this

1:50:23information with the public in a in a

1:50:26visual heavy manner or in a manner that

1:50:30um,

1:50:31um, is is good for the public. So, I

1:50:33love that idea.

1:50:35But I don't want you running off and

1:50:37doing a whole lot of work to create a

1:50:39whole lot of charts if it's not what we

1:50:41want. So, I'm not hearing specifically

1:50:43cuz we provide a lot of this stuff

1:50:45already. It's already out there. So, if

1:50:48we want to take what we're already doing

1:50:50and somehow put it in this financial

1:50:53health portal and

1:50:54that I'm I'm good with that. Um,

1:50:58but I'm not hearing we want more. I

1:51:00didn't hear anybody say I want a chart

1:51:02like this. I want this kind of

1:51:03information. And so, I'm throwing this

1:51:05out there to everybody. Um,

1:51:07don't run off and

1:51:09do more work than you have to cuz I'm

1:51:11not hearing that. Um, I like what we

1:51:14provide now. Um, and to be able to

1:51:17provide it in a manner, um, or in a

1:51:19place where the public can go easily and

1:51:23be able to digest it, I'm all for that.

1:51:25But, I don't don't run off and do all

1:51:28kinds of other stuff.

1:51:30Until we tell you to, I guess that's

1:51:32what I'm saying. [laughter]

1:51:35>> Councilman Kessinger.

1:51:37>> So,

1:51:43let's say our goal is to hang a picture.

1:51:46We want to hang a picture on the wall,

1:51:48right?

1:51:50Which hammer do we use to hang that

1:51:52picture on the wall?

1:51:53Doesn't really matter.

1:51:55The Strong Towns tool is a type of

1:51:57hammer, right? Um, it's the, I guess,

1:52:01the, um, community hammer. It's all beat

1:52:03up, it's whatnot, it could, you know,

1:52:05anything could have happened to it. Um,

1:52:07certainly I'm in favor of curating our

1:52:09own in-house, um, tool, uh, our own

1:52:12hammer to help us, you know, hang the

1:52:14picture of Morrisville that we want to

1:52:16hang.

1:52:17Um, the value that I see from

1:52:20uh,

1:52:21charts like this is that it provides,

1:52:23uh, long-term trend data,

1:52:26um, which I think would be useful and

1:52:27help Council in understanding how, uh,

1:52:30decisions compound over time.

1:52:32Um, one example of this is the, um, is

1:52:35our streets.

1:52:37Oh, and I

1:52:38I should add on to this that it could be

1:52:40applied to, uh, land use,

1:52:42infrastructure, parks, facilities,

1:52:43services, staffing, you know, all sorts

1:52:45of things. Um, any decision, really,

1:52:47that we make that has a financial

1:52:48component to it.

1:52:50Um,

1:52:51>> [clears throat]

1:52:52>> so, with our streets, and I would ask

1:52:54the Town Manager, um, to correct me if

1:52:56I'm wrong on this.

1:52:58Um, we are currently investing

1:53:00[clears throat] about a million, and

1:53:02this is coming from the economic, or the

1:53:03organizational resiliency report. Um,

1:53:07so, we're currently investing $1 million

1:53:08to $1.2 million annually in the base

1:53:10general fund

1:53:12for paving

1:53:13or from the base general fund for

1:53:15paving. Um,

1:53:17as well as we receive power bill funds.

1:53:19Should note that the gas tax has been

1:53:23um, suspended for for a bit and

1:53:26from that

1:53:28uh,

1:53:28from the report, there's note about a

1:53:30consultant doing a 20-year modeling

1:53:32report that that flat funding would not

1:53:35be enough to keep the town wide average

1:53:37pavement condition index

1:53:39above the council's goal of 83 2045.

1:53:44Um, and so to provide to prevent network

1:53:46degradation over the next two decades,

1:53:49you know, the annual allocation must

1:53:51increase.

1:53:52So, where I see something like this

1:53:55is [clears throat]

1:53:56we have our budget and we're having

1:53:58these competing priorities and we're

1:54:00deciding to pull money from one one

1:54:02bucket to put it in another bucket.

1:54:05So, understanding

1:54:07you know, let's say this is it's the

1:54:08decision is in front of us

1:54:10with withholding money from our paving

1:54:13fund or

1:54:17funding any of the other myriad of of

1:54:19options. It's not readily apparent to me

1:54:22what the effect of doing that would be

1:54:26in the future.

1:54:28And so I think

1:54:29uh, having something where we can

1:54:32we can understand the the

1:54:34um, the trends the historic trends but

1:54:37then also be able to

1:54:39you know, understand what effect the

1:54:41decisions that will have uh,

1:54:43what decisions that are what effects our

1:54:45decisions will have in the long term.

1:54:48I think that would be useful.

1:54:50And I I wrote down here probably more

1:54:52succinctly, when we're making financial

1:54:54decisions such as the budget and CIP,

1:54:56it'd be nice to know those long-term

1:54:58trends associated with making those

1:54:59decisions.

1:55:01I also want to add, um, as well,

1:55:04uh,

1:55:05the infrastructure assets project, um,

1:55:08from the, um, GASB. Uh, I did look into

1:55:11it. There's some new information on

1:55:12that, um, that, uh,

1:55:15government's required to report

1:55:17infrastructure condition assessments and

1:55:18tenure maintenance schedules

1:55:19disaggregated by specific network,

1:55:22separating roads from stormwater pipes

1:55:24and sidewalks, rather than lumping all

1:55:25public public assets together into one,

1:55:28um, big number.

1:55:30And then it must show 10 years of

1:55:31required versus actual maintenance

1:55:32spending for each distinct network. Um,

1:55:35so,

1:55:37certainly, um,

1:55:39data on,

1:55:42you know, our budget decisions or CIP

1:55:43decisions, kind of projecting it out

1:55:44kind of like how, uh, retirement tools

1:55:47would do that. If you invest $10 a month

1:55:50versus $20 a month, you know, what's the

1:55:52effect of that over time, uh, as well as

1:55:54specifically on,

1:55:56uh, the streets and street pavements,

1:55:58um, since that sounds like that,

1:56:00you know, the more we're spending on

1:56:02streets, the less we're able to spend on

1:56:04other stuff, or if we're not spending on

1:56:05the streets, the condition of the

1:56:07streets will, um, start to suffer.

1:56:09And so, just wanted to make sure that

1:56:10we're

1:56:12we have all the data

1:56:13that we can to make the best decision

1:56:15possible with a long-term approach.

1:56:19>> So, if if you all don't mind me just

1:56:21jumping in real quick, specifically

1:56:22about the, um,

1:56:28the, uh,

1:56:29the GASB infrastructure project. Um,

1:56:32just so you all are aware, they are in

1:56:34the process of, um, currently reviewing

1:56:37an exposure draft. Essentially, what

1:56:39that is is just the first draft that

1:56:41they sort of disseminate out to

1:56:43different members of the financial

1:56:45community, uh, you know, municipal

1:56:47government community, um, in order to

1:56:49just get feedback so that they know

1:56:51ultimately what the GASB pronouncement

1:56:53should be. Um, currently, they have not

1:56:55put out that GASB pronouncement.

1:56:58We do know typically whatever they do

1:57:00that and they go through that process it

1:57:01does change them.

1:57:04I just want to make sure that the

1:57:04council does understand. We don't want

1:57:06to

1:57:08ultimately implement something and start

1:57:10that process in the financial statements

1:57:11without fully knowing what that guy's

1:57:14been pronounced when it's going to be.

1:57:16So we do it is a little early

1:57:18to start to look at changing the

1:57:21financial statement and how we report

1:57:23our infrastructure numbers and our

1:57:25infrastructure totals in the capital

1:57:26asset roll forward.

1:57:28But ultimately once that pronouncement

1:57:30does come out, you know, it's something

1:57:31that not just us but our auditors will

1:57:33provide you some additional information

1:57:35on just so you're aware of sort of

1:57:37what's happening, where that's going to

1:57:39ultimately land and what that will look

1:57:41like in terms of the financial

1:57:42statements and the the necessary work in

1:57:44the timeline associated with it. So I

1:57:47just want to make sure that that we do

1:57:49sort of level set here and not try and

1:57:51get too far down the road of changing

1:57:54the way we report our infrastructure

1:57:56until we actually do know exactly what

1:57:58GASB is going to require of us.

1:58:06Any other questions?

1:58:09>> So

1:58:11So Harris, I I love your example of the

1:58:15you know, if we pulled back money from

1:58:16the street maintenance, what does that

1:58:18mean? I I I agree with you. I think the

1:58:21decisions we make like that when we're

1:58:25during budget season when we're

1:58:28moving money from when we did it this

1:58:30year, right? We we didn't fund all of

1:58:32our reserves fully like we did the year

1:58:35before.

1:58:37So whatever this scenario is, I think

1:58:41you are correct. I know you are correct

1:58:44that we need to understand the

1:58:46ramifications of those decisions. I

1:58:49guess I'm trying to figure out how that

1:58:52fits right here right now in this

1:58:54example. Um

1:58:56because that's something we should

1:58:57always be doing

1:58:59when we're making those decisions.

1:59:01Having that discussion at that time. So,

1:59:03I'm not sure how a

1:59:05And it maybe I'm missing it. I really

1:59:07apologize. But I'm not sure how a chart

1:59:10answers that question specifically. So,

1:59:13um

1:59:14trends 100% I get all that. But um when

1:59:18it comes to our

1:59:20our budget decision

1:59:22I want to have that information right

1:59:24there right then to understand. But

1:59:26anyhow,

1:59:26>> Yeah.

1:59:27So, all I was going to say is um to sort

1:59:30of separate that a little bit and we'll

1:59:32talk about the trends first. Um and just

1:59:35the nature of which tool we use and and

1:59:37the fact that there are multitude of

1:59:39tools to be able to use. Um the two that

1:59:41I look at that are most important for me

1:59:44and my staff um is the LGC's performance

1:59:47indicators of concern which come out

1:59:49with their audit and are a supplement to

1:59:52the audit and it helps them ultimately

1:59:54put together a list of municipalities in

1:59:57order to help determine what they look

1:59:59at

2:00:00exactly what it said, the areas of

2:00:01concern. Um areas that they look at in

2:00:04order to help identify whether or not a

2:00:07municipality is going to

2:00:09not necessarily just rise to a level of

2:00:11of being on their unit assistance list

2:00:13um or being taken over, but to start

2:00:16that process earlier so that they can

2:00:17help determine and identify um those

2:00:21those exact types of trends that you're

2:00:22talking about. If they start to see

2:00:24those trends go down, you know, they

2:00:26tend to let us know and let our auditors

2:00:28know so that we can either, you know,

2:00:30make the corrective actions and

2:00:31adjustments that are necessary or start

2:00:33to monitor those a lot closer so that we

2:00:35can um

2:00:36not have to make those adjustments. Uh

2:00:38the other area that I typically look at

2:00:41is uh our credit rating agencies. When

2:00:43we go through our bond ratings um

2:00:46whenever we get ready to issue new debt.

2:00:48Uh, they put out a lot of these same

2:00:50types of performance indicators, um, and

2:00:52they're a lot more specific to, uh, what

2:00:55what, um,

2:00:56you know,

2:00:57banks and and and bonds would ultimately

2:01:01sort of look at in order to help

2:01:02determine what our our credit rating is

2:01:04and and what our interest rates are

2:01:05going to be. And those are typically the

2:01:07ones that North Carolina is looking at

2:01:09because the credit rating agencies are

2:01:11heavily focused on, uh, the financial

2:01:14framework that North Carolina has put

2:01:15together. And that's the one benefit

2:01:17that we do have, uh, with the LGC.

2:01:20Yes, they are very taxing, uh, they're

2:01:23very demanding when it comes to the

2:01:25information that they need from us, but

2:01:26that's done for a reason. And that

2:01:28reason is the credit rating agencies

2:01:30feel very comfortable with the financial

2:01:32framework that we have in the state and

2:01:35that helps boost our credit rating and,

2:01:37you know, often times is the difference

2:01:39between one municipality in the exact

2:01:41same financial state that we're in in a

2:01:43different part of the state or another

2:01:45state having a, uh, lower credit rating

2:01:48than us simply because we have that

2:01:50financial framework in place. So, these

2:01:52are already sort of, um,

2:01:54metrics and different indicators that we

2:01:56do kind of look at. And while they might

2:01:59be a tad bit different or, um,

2:02:02you know, ultimately review something,

2:02:04maybe not the entire aspect of what's on

2:02:06Strong Towns, uh,

2:02:08within the financial statements, just a

2:02:09portion of it, um, it is something that

2:02:12that we do sort of consider there. So,

2:02:13uh, what I'm hearing from Council

2:02:15tonight is you all are ultimately

2:02:17interested in the data and what the data

2:02:19says. Now, I don't want to put words in

2:02:21your mouth, um, so certainly correct me

2:02:22if I'm wrong, um,

2:02:24but that is something that we can

2:02:25provide for you all and something that

2:02:27we do try and go through the process of

2:02:29gathering and providing either annually

2:02:31during our, uh, annual audit

2:02:33presentation, um, or whenever we go

2:02:35through that bond rating presentation.

2:02:37And if that's information that, as we go

2:02:39through those, if if we haven't been as

2:02:41transparent in terms of getting it to

2:02:43you, um that's certainly something that

2:02:45we can do.

2:02:50Any other comments

2:02:52or questions?

2:02:59>> Um I just wanted to say thank you to um

2:03:01you both for putting this

2:03:03uh presentation together. Um I know a

2:03:05lot of it was what I was um pushing for

2:03:07and asking for, and I appreciate that we

2:03:09were able to have this conversation here

2:03:11tonight. Um and thank you for the

2:03:13clarification on the infrastructure

2:03:14project. Um

2:03:17I know that it had recently uh changed

2:03:19after it had gone with the um

2:03:22uh gone to the uh to the exposure draft

2:03:25um

2:03:25through that that process.

2:03:27Um

2:03:28and some of the some of the meteor stuff

2:03:30>> [clears throat]

2:03:31>> Um I also wanted to I didn't emphasize

2:03:33this in my um

2:03:36uh

2:03:36previous comment, but um not not

2:03:40not only would it be useful, I think, um

2:03:43to understand these kind of trends and

2:03:45and whatnot in a more uh I

2:03:48how easy way to look at trends is

2:03:49through a chart like this. That's the

2:03:52That's the um the idea behind that. Um

2:03:54so certainly uh it would be nice to

2:03:57understand or see more of the data that

2:04:00you're talking about from uh

2:04:03um you know, our different uh uh

2:04:06resources that we have certainly in a

2:04:08more um

2:04:09visual way that can kind of show us how

2:04:12um and really transparency for the

2:04:14community, show the community

2:04:16um you know, where we are as as a town

2:04:20um cuz I know that there's there's

2:04:21people that you know

2:04:23ask certain questions, and it would be

2:04:25nice to have um

2:04:28you know, something to show that says,

2:04:29"Hey, um you know, this

2:04:31probably going to be able to understand

2:04:32this type of chart. Hey, this is what

2:04:35our town looks like right now." And

2:04:37certainly

2:04:38if it's tied with budget um

2:04:41conversations then, you know, I I feel

2:04:43that we might be able to bring more

2:04:45people into that those conversations. I

2:04:47think making the um the budget process

2:04:49is more transparent and more inclusive

2:04:51to um more people will only make

2:04:55Morrisville a stronger town.

2:05:01>> Yep, thank you both and the team. Um

2:05:04We already have a pretty strong

2:05:05dashboard with some good open data out

2:05:07there that's available to everybody. And

2:05:09if you all ever see things that you

2:05:10think the residents would benefit from

2:05:12seeing more of,

2:05:13I know that you're putting those out

2:05:14there for us on our behalf. So, let's

2:05:17keep on doing what you're doing. Thank

2:05:19you both very much. Appreciate it.

2:05:23Ready for

2:05:24>> Yes.

2:05:24>> 10 or 15?

2:05:26>> 15.

2:05:27>> Okay, let's please reconvene at 8:11.

2:05:30We're going to take a 15-minute break,

2:05:32everybody.

2:23:50>> Okay, welcome back to this session now.

2:23:52We're going to move on to item 2 C and

2:23:54then Charlie, capital investment program

2:23:56four-year major update. I'd recognize

2:23:58Genie Hooks and Mark Spagnola and Byron

2:24:00Hayes to help facilitate this.

2:24:03>> Okay, good evening everybody. Thank

2:24:05[cough and laughter] you for the time

2:24:06tonight for our team. We have Mark

2:24:08Spagnola, Byron Hayes in the back and we

2:24:10have really our CIP team here in support

2:24:14and I just want to express my thanks to

2:24:16this group. They're going to be doing,

2:24:18they have done and they will be doing

2:24:19lots of good work for you to get us

2:24:22right.

2:24:23So, we're here to talk about really the

2:24:25kickoff of your what is a major CIP

2:24:28update according to our policy for the

2:24:30new five-year picture of 20 eight

2:24:33through 32.

2:24:35Um, this this meeting is about [cough]

2:24:38setting the stage, starting the

2:24:40conversation and to help bring others up

2:24:43to level set on really what our policy

2:24:46is about in the CIP that you've adopted

2:24:48um, and put in place this this

2:24:50particular strategy. We'll go over those

2:24:52policy drivers.

2:24:54We're going to cover the process at a

2:24:55high level, allow opportunity for

2:24:58um, this is where I'm going to rely on

2:25:00actually seasoned council members who

2:25:02have been through this multiple times to

2:25:05help support those that are more

2:25:06unfamiliar with it and share experiences

2:25:10um, and and how it's worked for you or

2:25:12maybe how it's not. Um, we're going to

2:25:14cover some major influences and project

2:25:17that really help us build better project

2:25:19concepts to consider and what our major

2:25:21work is right now which is

2:25:22re-prioritization.

2:25:24Working to get to what are the projects,

2:25:27how do we re-prioritize them so that we

2:25:29can move into a much more detailed

2:25:31finite funding sustainability plan.

2:25:34And Councilmember Kessinger, you're

2:25:36going to love that part.

2:25:39>> [laughter]

2:25:40>> Uh, we got some good stuff for you with

2:25:41that.

2:25:43We need to talk about and separate the

2:25:45pool projects tonight if we can. I want

2:25:48to be able to move past what things we

2:25:50need to consider in a funding strategy

2:25:53that are not a part of your

2:25:54re-purchasation work, which is what

2:25:56we're going to be moving to, and what

2:25:59are the concepts that we're seeing right

2:26:02now that might be a part of that pool.

2:26:03So, Mark is here to and and the rest of

2:26:06the team to really help kind of talk

2:26:07through that. But, this is your open

2:26:09door. Somebody asked me the other

2:26:11evening, you know, is this where I can

2:26:13put some ideas out there? Absolutely,

2:26:15you can start thinking about outcomes

2:26:18and your

2:26:18>> [cough]

2:26:18>> interest or visioning that you're trying

2:26:21to prove something in the community.

2:26:23Don't focus on the solution. That's

2:26:25that's what we're here for to help you

2:26:27figure out how to get there.

2:26:28[clears throat] You give us the picture,

2:26:30the vision, and we'll figure out how to

2:26:33how to apply the resources and the tools

2:26:35to to get the picture and that's a

2:26:37realistic and fundable.

2:26:39So, most importantly, tonight it's not

2:26:41about making final decisions. So, I want

2:26:43to say that. We're going to take things

2:26:45at your pace because we have another

2:26:48work session on November 10th.

2:26:50Very strategically, cuz I've done this

2:26:52so many times with y'all. I know you

2:26:54need time to talk and you need you need

2:26:56time to absorb and process. And it just

2:26:59takes several meetings in order to

2:27:01build. So, we're Remember, we're

2:27:02building on each other's comments and

2:27:04layering on information to make good

2:27:06decisions. And it all starts with level

2:27:09setting on what is that bucket of

2:27:10projects we really need to be talking

2:27:12about.

2:27:13So,

2:27:15again, we're going to move this process

2:27:16forward and I'm going to I'll put in

2:27:18front of you This is ultimately I want

2:27:20you to see the picture. This is

2:27:22ultimately what we were looking for, a

2:27:24fundable plan in the end that we can all

2:27:27support. It's realistic. It's grounded

2:27:30in financial sustainability and we have

2:27:33people that we bring in to utilize and

2:27:35and do our financial modeling. But to

2:27:38get here, you have to first figure out

2:27:40what are we talking about, what's

2:27:42important, what are the priorities. That

2:27:45gives us the visual or the visualization

2:27:48from you, the ideals, and now we can do

2:27:50the hard work to help you figure out how

2:27:52to make it happen and become a reality.

2:27:56So I'm going to pause there.

2:27:58It is 8:19

2:28:00and I'm going to ask does council your

2:28:02This is your discussion.

2:28:04I'm here to help We're here to help

2:28:05facilitate. What do you need to know?

2:28:08Can we time box a check-in at

2:28:12an hour?

2:28:15Okay.

2:28:16And who's

2:28:18And who's going to help me remember

2:28:209:00?

2:28:21>> I will.

2:28:22>> You all will.

2:28:24>> You'll have plenty of

2:28:26>> [clears throat]

2:28:26>> I'm going to have to Well, I figured I

2:28:28would, but

2:28:29>> [laughter]

2:28:30>> All right. So tonight is not about

2:28:33really setting

2:28:35the making decision, but it is setting

2:28:37expectations with each other and

2:28:39understanding, especially for the new

2:28:41folks, what this CIP process is all

2:28:43about. That's grounded in your policy.

2:28:45You've given us the tool to work with.

2:28:48So it it's really intended to go

2:28:50across those two sessions. We're going

2:28:52to first reset refresh on the policies,

2:28:55going to look for some affirmation if

2:28:57possible so we can move things ahead.

2:29:00We're proposing what we've used before

2:29:03that has worked with you well. So you'll

2:29:05have to let me know if something works

2:29:07or doesn't.

2:29:09We're going to draw again on members

2:29:12that have done this before to share your

2:29:13experience. We're going to second look

2:29:15at the project concepts and this is

2:29:16where Mark's going to really chime in

2:29:19and tap others. And we're going to look

2:29:21at what are those influential factors

2:29:23that we need to be considering in a

2:29:24major update.

2:29:26There's some things that help us do our

2:29:28work better to build better the concepts

2:29:31to consider that align to your vision,

2:29:33to those ideals you're going to tell us

2:29:35about.

2:29:36Third, we're going to look for some

2:29:38feedback. I think it's important to

2:29:40ground on what are we going to be

2:29:43comfortable with or want to see in how

2:29:45we engage with the community. That's a

2:29:47very important part of

2:29:49capital investment planning.

2:29:52So, I just

2:29:54went through this introduction goals. Is

2:29:56everybody good with that? Okay.

2:30:03So, this next session before we start

2:30:05talking about projects, it's important

2:30:07that we really remind ourselves about,

2:30:09you know, what's a CIP supposed to do?

2:30:11You know, there's council's role, as I

2:30:13said, you're defining the big picture.

2:30:15What are the outcomes? Staff's role is

2:30:18to figure out how we can get you there,

2:30:20how we can responsibly implement it.

2:30:22We're going to look at things like

2:30:23timing, affordability once we have these

2:30:27priorities that you're going to provide

2:30:29us. We're going to bounce that against

2:30:31capacity and affordability, and we have

2:30:33resources that help us look not only at

2:30:36what we're doing today and then this

2:30:38five year, but what we look forward in a

2:30:40long-range picture and how we compare

2:30:42and are sustainable according to our

2:30:44metrics that we measure ourselves

2:30:46against. We're trying to create an

2:30:48actual plan. Remember, that's key here,

2:30:50not a pipe dream, not something that we

2:30:52sit on a shelf. And I will say more so

2:30:55than outstanding job over the years

2:30:58after we adopted a policy and put it in

2:31:00place. We have executed over

2:31:04Gosh, I should know this number number

2:31:06off the top of my head.

2:31:09>> [clears throat]

2:31:09>> We have 50 53 million planned in a CIP.

2:31:14We have executed over a hundred million

2:31:17dollars worth of investment,

2:31:18[cough and clears throat] and we have 98

2:31:20something in the pipeline active.

2:31:23That's because you stick to a plan, you

2:31:26you had your prioritization

2:31:28and you work at in new influences in

2:31:31each year or every two years, and you

2:31:34create something that is realistic,

2:31:36doable, and we put tangible things on

2:31:38the ground as a result. That's what

2:31:40people want to see for the resources

2:31:42they pay in.

2:31:44>> Genie, I'd really like to pause

2:31:45>> Mhm.

2:31:46>> I'd really like to pause for a second

2:31:49and acknowledge your role in the fact

2:31:51that we do that because I think that

2:31:54over the years

2:31:56>> [cough and clears throat]

2:31:56>> insights in your work and your your

2:32:00guidance have been invaluable. So, I

2:32:03think so I just want to pause and say

2:32:04that.

2:32:05>> Thank you. I I appreciate that. I take a

2:32:07lot of pride. CIP is just a really fun

2:32:09thing. He's going to tell me if I'm

2:32:11talking too much. Um you know I love it.

2:32:14But it has It takes a lot of people, and

2:32:16all of these people behind me and beside

2:32:18me are

2:32:21what helps me help you get there.

2:32:23They're They're part of this. So, I

2:32:24don't know who's side of that.

2:32:27>> [laughter]

2:32:28>> All right, policy drivers.

2:32:30Uh it's it's really built around three

2:32:32ideals, the three three things here in

2:32:35our CIP. What we want to focus on is

2:32:37first is What do I What do we want our

2:32:39investments to be, and how do they align

2:32:41to our community goals? We are governed,

2:32:43as Paul is in here, uh he would tell you

2:32:46he's going to hold me accountable, you

2:32:47accountable, to making sure that what we

2:32:49invest in or prioritize aligns to our

2:32:51strategic goals. That we're being able

2:32:54to

2:32:55um better that these projects are

2:32:59achieving something for that we ideally

2:33:02envisioned when we adopted that plan.

2:33:05Secondly, [clears throat] we're going to

2:33:06make sure that we're protecting the

2:33:08town's long-range financial health. And

2:33:11this is where we tap in our financial

2:33:12advisors, and they do an amazing job in

2:33:16working with the team here and giving

2:33:18you options once you get to that

2:33:20prioritization stage of of different

2:33:23scenarios that help you envision how you

2:33:26can bring forward a realistic plan that

2:33:28doesn't jeopardize the the future

2:33:31solvency of the town. And and that's

2:33:33been a very smart decision over the

2:33:35years that we utilize third-party as an

2:33:38unbiased resource to come in and give

2:33:41you a

2:33:43an expert opinion, an educated opinion

2:33:45in addition to your knowledgeable staff.

2:33:48Third, we're going to have

2:33:51the ability to be able to demonstrate a

2:33:53responsibility of capital planning is

2:33:55actually maintaining and improving the

2:33:57assets assets you already own. That's a

2:34:00really key part of recognizing the

2:34:02responsibility you hold as elected

2:34:04officials is being able to put that

2:34:06money back into the assets you developed

2:34:09as well as improving and in creating

2:34:11more that deliver those quality of life

2:34:14aspects you know people value in our

2:34:16community.

2:34:17The key is to build an achievable plan.

2:34:20It's not a wish list. I'm going to

2:34:22really hold you all accountable. You

2:34:25can't throw everything in the kitchen

2:34:26sink and when it comes to projects when

2:34:28you're doing this re-prioritization, we

2:34:30got to be intentional of what is that

2:34:32bucket because the picture and window

2:34:34we're looking at is five years.

2:34:38Not everything is doable in five years.

2:34:42Some things are not doable simply

2:34:44because you have partners or timing

2:34:46constraints or you might miss out on

2:34:48grant opportunities. So, being

2:34:50intentional and having that information

2:34:53that we're going to give you

2:34:55in a policy or a project concept nature,

2:34:58so we're going to give you those those

2:34:59critical details even how it impacts

2:35:03operations in the future. So, these are

2:35:05the things that are our grounding policy

2:35:08drivers that the CIP spells out.

2:35:14>> And if I can let me make sure

2:35:15>> in at

2:35:16>> So, when she talks about the things

2:35:19fitting within a 5-year window, what

2:35:20happens to us is that it really ideally

2:35:22would be that we need uh a year to do

2:35:25some initial project planning, and then

2:35:26another year to do design, and then the

2:35:29third year and beyond construction will

2:35:30take place. So, it's hard to get it all

2:35:32done, obviously, in 1 year.

2:35:33I'm just putting that in there.

2:35:35>> That's great. That's a great add, and it

2:35:37feeds right into here.

2:35:39>> [laughter]

2:35:39>> I One of the key things for for even

2:35:43season council members to reset yourself

2:35:46on is to differentiate between what when

2:35:49we're talking CIP

2:35:51that that we are not talking about

2:35:53annual operating expenses in the way of

2:35:55what the 5-year uh CIP plans out. Now,

2:36:00it does take into consideration when

2:36:02we're weighing projects that we need to

2:36:04know from Mark's team and the others

2:36:06that are helping build um

2:36:09solutions to your outcomes that you want

2:36:11us to create with projects is to

2:36:14estimate and anticipate what's that

2:36:16future ongoing impact to our operations.

2:36:19Very important for us to be able to

2:36:21project forward. Uh we we want to be

2:36:24able to see that that vision and be able

2:36:26to make good decisions. Is this the

2:36:28right project for us? We need to

2:36:31understand the cause and effect of doing

2:36:33that. So, so balancing knowing what's

2:36:36your one-time capital expense in your

2:36:38CIP is is is integrated back into your

2:36:43budget discussions by understanding what

2:36:45those operating impacts are with those

2:36:47project concepts.

2:36:49Capital projects that we're talking

2:36:50about for for everyone is to reset.

2:36:53These are big things. These are meaty,

2:36:56tangible things that we put on the

2:36:58ground that people can play on, that

2:37:00people can experience, that people can

2:37:04interact with or drive on. These are

2:37:06those improved assets that we already

2:37:08have or new assets because we're trying

2:37:11to expand programming or meet the needs

2:37:13the communities expressed that that they

2:37:16want more of this. Well, what is that is

2:37:18what we need to figure out. These are

2:37:20things that are have a life cycle

2:37:22greater than the five years. They tend

2:37:24to take in Morrisville is that they take

2:37:27at least 12 to 18 months to construct.

2:37:31They typically require debt and or

2:37:33Morrisville combination of use other

2:37:36capital reserves, those intentional

2:37:38resources that we put aside. And here is

2:37:40where when we start balancing the

2:37:43picture in the five-year which you give

2:37:44us priorities is we're starting to

2:37:46balance and weigh what are those

2:37:48resources and how can we project them

2:37:50forward to create a realistic funding

2:37:53plan solution.

2:37:55That's that's a critical step to get

2:37:57there. We got to talk about the

2:37:58prioritization of the budget to get.

2:38:01They are also things that we want to be

2:38:03able to project the potential for grant

2:38:07opportunities and I have Brett this

2:38:09behind and he's going to be telling you

2:38:11if we can show something that's related

2:38:14to what he works with DOT and other

2:38:16resources through the STIP. If we can

2:38:19show a project is meaningful and

2:38:20valuable to our community

2:38:23the STIP in working through CAMPO and

2:38:25other organizations that have this

2:38:27ability to provide us additional

2:38:29resources, it's going to matter and make

2:38:30a difference that we value that project

2:38:33in this plan. So, we want to make sure

2:38:35that we're giving that consideration

2:38:36when we evaluate projects is what are

2:38:39those opportunities that might come more

2:38:41with one project if it's on the list

2:38:43versus maybe not so much on the others.

2:38:46So, just distinguishing what we're

2:38:48talking about are one-time big projects

2:38:52and a difference here and I know several

2:38:55of you know this is we don't normally do

2:38:59large equipment, but it can be a part of

2:39:01a CIP. Morrisville made a decision a a

2:39:04while ago of creating a capital reserve

2:39:07specifically for a fire apparatus. Smart

2:39:09decision.

2:39:10And why is that? It's because you're

2:39:12able to leverage more of your dollars

2:39:14for your debt capacity for that for big

2:39:17things.

2:39:18And manage and and save up money

2:39:21incrementally over time so long-range

2:39:23planning. And and this is where we can

2:39:25see if we put aside, there's a return on

2:39:28that investment because now we can plan

2:39:31ahead and see 5 years from now, I would

2:39:33tell you even 10 years from now,

2:39:36a fire apparatus that has to be replaced

2:39:38because we know its life cycle, we know

2:39:40the maintenance of it. And we can plan

2:39:42how much we need to set aside and not

2:39:44have to take out debt capacity for that.

2:39:47So, we leave it for things we can put on

2:39:49the ground that people see and they can

2:39:51experience those big projects, parks,

2:39:53transportation improvements, and and

2:39:56facilities we need [clears throat] to

2:39:57upgrade.

2:39:59All right?

2:40:04>> What's that?

2:40:05>> So, the next slide is I'm not going to

2:40:08spend a lot of time on it, but I think

2:40:10it's important just to get a picture

2:40:12right now on the front end

2:40:14of really what I kind of envision as the

2:40:17timeline for you as we work through this

2:40:19prioritization process. And I think

2:40:21those of you that that done this before,

2:40:23this sort of feels similar, doesn't it?

2:40:24We sort of start around October,

2:40:26November and we get to retreat and we

2:40:28kind of wrap it up with a together a

2:40:31together moment where you're doing a

2:40:33final exercise and sharing and coming to

2:40:37a consensus together, a shared common

2:40:39interest giving staff what are those top

2:40:42priorities and and going through those

2:40:44tools.

2:40:46So, I'll pause there to see if there's

2:40:48any questions on the timeline, any

2:40:51concerns, or any questions really on the

2:40:54policy drivers right now.

2:40:58Yes.

2:41:01>> I'm concerned about December being the

2:41:03month of community engagement

2:41:06just because I feel like we lose half of

2:41:08that month to the holidays

2:41:10and

2:41:12people that people have

2:41:15just other things going on. It's a busy

2:41:17time of year. I'd like to see

2:41:20that

2:41:21community engagement in more of a

2:41:24December-January time frame or even

2:41:27January.

2:41:28>> Okay.

2:41:29>> And then ending up with the retreat in

2:41:31February.

2:41:34>> Good idea.

2:41:37>> So everybody generally okay with that? I

2:41:39I would say staff would be okay with

2:41:40that. I can still see that working.

2:41:43>> Okay. Yeah. General nods, good.

2:41:45Good point. Thank you.

2:41:47Any other questions on process or

2:41:49policy?

2:41:52>> Yes.

2:41:54>> Are we going to do like a budgetopia

2:41:56exercise?

2:41:58>> So we

2:41:58I said you you wrote that the other

2:42:00night and I said to you, "I have

2:42:01somebody [laughter] working on it. We're

2:42:02trying to give a chance and an

2:42:03opportunity with um

2:42:06uh

2:42:07Western Carolina University and he's

2:42:09been challenged and he's working with

2:42:11the budget team uh to develop a or

2:42:15provide recommendations for an updated

2:42:17interactive tool. So some of them of you

2:42:19have actually gone through budgetopia

2:42:21with me when it was back in Mars Hill

2:42:23101 and that was developed when

2:42:262010. I mean

2:42:28it's been a very long time, but it's

2:42:29stood the test of time. Uh we want to

2:42:32expand it, incorporate operational side

2:42:34of the house to make sure that it's

2:42:36encompassing that. Uh but the answer

2:42:38short answer is yes, but we're trying to

2:42:40give this student an opportunity to

2:42:43bring new ideas to the table and see

2:42:45what they come up with. We still have

2:42:47budgetopia there. I'm planning to do

2:42:49something when we get to the engagement

2:42:52slides, you'll see where budgetopia is

2:42:54mentioned in forms. I'll have it with

2:42:56Marisol 101 when that comes around and

2:43:00great

2:43:01exercise and educational tool, but also

2:43:03to use it on the forums to inform one of

2:43:06the community's interest. How did they

2:43:08experience how we do this work?

2:43:10>> So, just for the new council members,

2:43:12Budgetopia is an exercise

2:43:15>> [snorts]

2:43:15>> of

2:43:16a what if analysis with you putting in

2:43:20various projects in sequence over fiscal

2:43:23years and determining when you run out

2:43:25of money cuz you are going to run out of

2:43:27money. You can't do everything and it's

2:43:29a real life

2:43:30kind of scenario. And it really does

2:43:34help you understand the

2:43:38the dependencies also that are involved

2:43:40with these decisions. So, thank you for

2:43:42that explanation.

2:43:43>> No, thank you for sharing. I think

2:43:45that's exactly what I'm looking for.

2:43:46There's a been through this and

2:43:48experience these tools. It's very

2:43:50helpful as a reminder

2:43:52as for help for you to understand when

2:43:54we talk about Budgetopia, you're like,

2:43:56"What is that?"

2:43:57>> [laughter]

2:43:58>> All right, Mark's going to take over on

2:44:00this next slide for me.

2:44:01>> Before you go, I just have one more

2:44:02>> Oh, yes, sir.

2:44:03>> Uh

2:44:04do we go through this exercise every

2:44:06year? Every

2:44:08few years?

2:44:09>> Great question. So, let me Thank you for

2:44:12calling me on that. So, I So, to paint

2:44:14the picture for you in the policy,

2:44:16it it dictates that

2:44:18every 4 years, a 4-year or 5-year CIP

2:44:21that we develop,

2:44:23we want to do a major update. And that's

2:44:25when we do a significant

2:44:27re-vetting of projects all the way down,

2:44:30you know, to to Mark's team.

2:44:32Um and reassess the costs, reassess the

2:44:36modifiers and assumptions. Every 2

2:44:39years, we're going to come back with you

2:44:41cuz we you felt like you needed a

2:44:43refresh, an opportunity to say, "Hey,

2:44:45something really big's changed. I think

2:44:48I might want to try something uh, to

2:44:51move something around in that five-year

2:44:52picture. So, you've got a four-year

2:44:54major, you've got a two-year touchstone

2:44:57that's a refresh, depending on what

2:44:59those major influences are that are

2:45:01coming in the door. Say we got a,

2:45:03uh,

2:45:04earmark from, uh, one of the

2:45:06representatives for $10 million. That

2:45:09would be awesome, wouldn't it?

2:45:11>> [laughter]

2:45:12>> That's a big change that maybe we need

2:45:13to talk about, and that might cause you

2:45:15to want to talk with each other to

2:45:16reshuffle the deck in that five-year

2:45:18picture. It might pull the project

2:45:20forward. So, four years, two years, and

2:45:24you get to touch this every year. So, if

2:45:27Mark's team or the manager or senior

2:45:31leadership feels like something like

2:45:33that has happened, we're going to let

2:45:35you know that year. So, every year you

2:45:37get to touch it. Uh, but what you adopt

2:45:40every year is that year's capital budget

2:45:42appropriation. The planning years stay

2:45:45the same unless we want to move

2:45:46something around with influence in that

2:45:48year, but usually they stay the same in

2:45:50those one-year touchstones, unless

2:45:52there's big big things.

2:45:53>> And what we are doing today is the major

2:45:55update, right?

2:45:56>> That's right, we're doing the major

2:45:57update. And the major update includes

2:45:59the community engagement.

2:46:00>> Yes.

2:46:01>> we don't do every year, anyway.

2:46:03>> Great question. Thank you for asking

2:46:05that. All right, Mark, take it away.

2:46:07>> So, just to give you an insight on how

2:46:08we develop our project concepts and

2:46:10project sheets,

2:46:11uh, we obviously scope the project, and

2:46:13the more details we have the better. So,

2:46:15doing things like our parks master plan,

2:46:17our comprehensive transportation plan,

2:46:19and other types of master planning

2:46:21efforts help us develop more detailed

2:46:23scopes on on these projects that come

2:46:25out of them. For example, if we're going

2:46:26to do any park, like let's say walking

2:46:27through a park,

2:46:28uh,

2:46:29you know, right now we're we're not

2:46:30until the master plan gives us some more

2:46:32info, we would really would be kind of

2:46:33like shooting in the dark. So, the more

2:46:34information we have, the better our

2:46:36scope. Very important, that also heads

2:46:38in the direction of cost estimating, so

2:46:40it gives us more information as are we

2:46:42doing a baseball field or we doing

2:46:44basketball courts, and that helps us

2:46:46develop our cost estimates more

2:46:47appropriately, and we can work with our

2:46:48cost estimators to give them that

2:46:49information and help us verify those

2:46:51costs.

2:46:52Uh same thing for funding opportunities.

2:46:54Once we have some of that developed, we

2:46:55can start to determine, well, can we go

2:46:56after some grants? Can we work with

2:46:58CAMPO? What kind of opportunities do we

2:46:59have depending on the type of projects?

2:47:01And along the way, as we're as we're

2:47:03developing the project sheets, we are

2:47:04looking at operational impacts. We're

2:47:06looking at how many people does it need

2:47:08to operate this facility? Uh what kind

2:47:11of costs in terms of the electric costs,

2:47:13maintenance costs, uh long-term

2:47:15replacement costs of AC units, etc. So,

2:47:17that's all being built into the capital

2:47:19project sheets as we work on them. So,

2:47:21just to give you a little insight into

2:47:22how that works.

2:47:23>> Great.

2:47:26All right. So, the next one is really

2:47:28what's in our toolbox. And

2:47:30uh this is where, you know, other

2:47:32council members share your experiences

2:47:34as we go through these these particular

2:47:36tools. But, I will What I would say to

2:47:39you that no single tool tells us the

2:47:42story of what's the most important

2:47:44project that I've found over the year.

2:47:45What has worked is when you apply

2:47:48different perspective lenses with these

2:47:51tools. It's so It's kind of magical in

2:47:54how the real important things for you

2:47:57all really do float to the surface, and

2:47:59I can circle across all three of these

2:48:02tools, including the engagement, where

2:48:05there's this common theme, and that

2:48:08helps you focus not necessarily on that

2:48:11so much as where you have a difference,

2:48:14uh delta, between you all. And if

2:48:17something's important for you, you can

2:48:18bring it to the table at that point, and

2:48:20you know where your other council

2:48:22members sit. If you feel passionately

2:48:24about it, let's have that conversation.

2:48:26We If you can filter that, use these

2:48:28tools to do that, you've given us a lot

2:48:31of information at that point. And it's

2:48:33all about where do we need to spend our

2:48:35time talking? I think it's when where

2:48:38you don't have agreement that matters

2:48:40most, and how can you get to consensus

2:48:42at that point? Or not compromise.

2:48:46So, I'll go through these a little bit.

2:48:48Let me go to the next slide.

2:48:51Um a little explanation on this slide.

2:48:54It is policy driven and what I would say

2:48:57to you is you you've adopted these um

2:49:02these criteria. And you've seen this

2:49:04with Brett and through the the CTP is

2:49:07that we want to weight projects. Council

2:49:10actually went through and decided these

2:49:12were the important criteria that you

2:49:14wanted to dictate to kept to staff to

2:49:17use first. And you weighted those proj-

2:49:20those those elements for us to measure

2:49:22every project against. And that's that's

2:49:25helpful to minimize some of the

2:49:27subjectivity on our part by using your

2:49:31priorities, your weights, and what

2:49:34you've defined these elements to be. And

2:49:37it's a place to start. It doesn't define

2:49:40what's the

2:49:41really going to be the final top. It's

2:49:44just a place for us to start and we can

2:49:46give you that list of projects and how

2:49:49they scored out using the elements you

2:49:51said were most important to you. So,

2:49:53that's where this comes from. It's

2:49:55deeply rooted in more so and deeply

2:49:58rooted in um something that the School

2:50:01of Government actually helped me

2:50:03uh prepare um years ago is a critical

2:50:06thinking model.

2:50:07But it helps us think more from your

2:50:10lens of how we score these to get to a

2:50:13place to to begin.

2:50:18So, the next one is the other two uh

2:50:23exercises that we've learned have worked

2:50:26well from staff lens and I think I've

2:50:29heard several council members

2:50:32really say the same. So, if this still

2:50:34works for you, let's get to some

2:50:36affirmation. Paired comparison for those

2:50:39that that haven't done this is you it's

2:50:41independent. It it allows you as an

2:50:44independent person to have a voice.

2:50:46It does force you to really choose. By

2:50:52only having two projects side by side,

2:50:54it forces you to choose which one you

2:50:56value more than the other.

2:50:58And that repetition of bouncing all of

2:51:01these projects against each other

2:51:03miraculously miraculously

2:51:05filters out what's your common interest

2:51:08or filter out what is your personal

2:51:10preference that we can bring to the

2:51:12table and then see collectively together

2:51:15where are you the same and but where are

2:51:16you not. And so it's a first it it's the

2:51:19second step in the process. You get the

2:51:21criteria rating, you get the paired

2:51:23comparison as an independent exercise,

2:51:25and then we move you over to the

2:51:26Eisenhower exercise. And you all do so

2:51:29well at that when we're at retreats,

2:51:31usually at retreat.

2:51:32Where you get up, you you decide, "Okay,

2:51:35I'm going to put this in the quadrant of

2:51:36what's urgent, what's most important,

2:51:38what's not important." And then you have

2:51:40a conversation. And that's the last

2:51:43final step that that really vents out

2:51:45what is needs to be at the top from

2:51:48seven different people who can um

2:51:51congregate around one shared decision

2:51:54cuz that's what we need from you. We

2:51:56can't have seven individual priority

2:51:58list. We need to filter the list. We

2:52:01need you to tell us what your collective

2:52:03the collective entity's top priorities

2:52:05are. That's when we can start doing our

2:52:08work of what funding scenarios can we

2:52:11create that can be a five-year picture

2:52:13for you that that can do some great

2:52:16things for the community. And then

2:52:18what's our capacity? More so, we start

2:52:21talking about affordability at that

2:52:23time. That's a key piece that you're

2:52:25going to hear from our financial

2:52:26advisors of how we measure that. And

2:52:28that's when you decide do you leverage

2:52:30more resources? Do you use the resources

2:52:32you have, do you even slow down the

2:52:34process? That's a fair question at this

2:52:37particular time

2:52:39in a major CIP prioritization. I've seen

2:52:42them speed up and I've seen them

2:52:44purposely slow down. So, fair point, a

2:52:47fair philosophical question for you all

2:52:49to to to deal with.

2:52:51Um

2:52:52So, at this point

2:52:55I'm going to pause and I'm going to ask

2:52:57those that have been through this

2:52:58process, is there anything you'd like to

2:52:59share, what's worked well, what didn't?

2:53:02Is there just a general consensus this

2:53:05strategy works by using your criteria,

2:53:07going to the individual exercise that's

2:53:10online, and then to the Eisenhower

2:53:12approach and wrapping it up at retreat

2:53:14with each other?

2:53:17Mayor Pro Tem Broaddus, I believe you're

2:53:19first.

2:53:22>> So, I think that this

2:53:25this process works really well. And I

2:53:28think that having the

2:53:30for me,

2:53:32having the prioritization list based on

2:53:35the weights

2:53:36helps me to make decisions between

2:53:38project A and project B when I'm doing

2:53:41the Eisenhower thing. And then you

2:53:44coming back with

2:53:46the result of that

2:53:48prior to the retreat is very helpful

2:53:51because it helps us identify areas of

2:53:54consensus before we even get there. And

2:53:58I think that that's really important.

2:53:59Plus, you know, we all get our own color

2:54:01sticky notes. I

2:54:02love everything about the Eisenhower.

2:54:05Um

2:54:06Yeah, but I do think that there those

2:54:08are three separate, very valuable inputs

2:54:13into the CIP process.

2:54:17>> I believe Mayor Collier, were you next?

2:54:20Um

2:54:20There's a water jug in front of you,

2:54:22Council Member Scruggs Johnson, so I

2:54:24didn't see your yours.

2:54:25>> Yeah, I I I can just real quick? Um I

2:54:28agree. All these different pieces are

2:54:30useful and we also just have to keep in

2:54:33mind that certain projects are going

2:54:35forward and they're going forward. So,

2:54:37like the things in FY27 we're not really

2:54:39going to mess with those cuz those are

2:54:41really committed and stuff like that. Um

2:54:43so,

2:54:44that's just one thing I want to say is

2:54:45that

2:54:47we can move the needle as much as we

2:54:48want. We can stop anything at any time,

2:54:50but

2:54:51to be responsible to the taxpayer

2:54:53dollars and stuff, you don't want to

2:54:55necessarily

2:54:56directions a lot.

2:54:58So,

2:55:00just wanted to say that.

2:55:02>> We'll talk a little bit about that when

2:55:03we get to the projects cuz we're going

2:55:05to filter the bucket, that's what I call

2:55:07it.

2:55:08Comptroller Mr. Thompson.

2:55:10>> So, I think that to be fair to everybody

2:55:13level set,

2:55:14we need inputs and descriptions on each

2:55:19and every one of these

2:55:21um proposed

2:55:23um

2:55:24you know, capital project. We do have

2:55:28some information that's financial that's

2:55:30provided in this presentation, but I

2:55:32think we need to provide a scope and um

2:55:37and a proposed timeline and

2:55:39[clears throat]

2:55:40additional criteria, I guess. I was just

2:55:43jotting down if something um

2:55:46is time sensitive or not. Sometimes it

2:55:49was mentioned, sometimes it's not

2:55:51because it's associated with an ongoing

2:55:53effort. A lot of the school projects,

2:55:56you know, that we're supporting the

2:55:58school development um are time sensitive

2:56:01and some may or may not be already in

2:56:04play, but some are needing to be

2:56:06prioritized.

2:56:08I would like to know if

2:56:10something is

2:56:12and and this might be hard to describe

2:56:14this

2:56:15is

2:56:16within an area that's activated. So, if

2:56:19something is an orphan or you know,

2:56:21we're finally finishing something. Like,

2:56:24um

2:56:25if we want to look at town center and we

2:56:27haven't developed a project because we,

2:56:30um,

2:56:30right-size the thing. If we add this

2:56:34last thing, then it's a finished entity.

2:56:37And sometimes there's synergies and

2:56:38operational costs and so forth like

2:56:40that. I Hopefully that makes sense to

2:56:43you. Um

2:56:44Also, if it's a gap that we're filling.

2:56:47So, certain,

2:56:49um

2:56:50like arts is a commonly something that

2:56:53we're building up. We have murals, we

2:56:55have icons. And then an arts center is a

2:56:59gap right now. So, if we look at that as

2:57:02a new, um, ex-

2:57:05um, entity versus some of the greenway

2:57:08extensions are existing greenways with

2:57:11extensions. So, it's like new versus

2:57:14additional. Um, so those are some

2:57:17factors that I look at the description

2:57:21and for those factors to better

2:57:24understand how to prioritize in this

2:57:26exercise.

2:57:27So, just the titles themselves

2:57:30I

2:57:31it's always been a challenge and I know

2:57:33that

2:57:34there's a lot of information to collect,

2:57:36but I think we do have a lot of that

2:57:38information already. It's just about

2:57:41you're not going to have every bit of

2:57:42information about every project cuz

2:57:44they're in different life cycle stages,

2:57:46but as much as we can get so that we can

2:57:48have an informed analysis for that

2:57:51kickoff portion of it.

2:57:52>> Absolutely. When When we show this

2:57:54slide, we we did this Mark and I did

2:57:57this intentionally. Is these are the

2:57:59things that we want to give you before

2:58:01you get there. And I call it a project

2:58:04concept summary matrix.

2:58:06Um, I'm I'm proposing we need to expand

2:58:08that a little bit. And you You've

2:58:10actually touched on many of the things

2:58:12that we know we need to put in there.

2:58:13One in particular we know we've always

2:58:15needed to do better on is that future

2:58:18operating impact. But you you've

2:58:20mentioned some really interesting things

2:58:21knowing if there's a gap, you know, I

2:58:23think that's really important. Um

2:58:26if it's finishing a larger area that's

2:58:29there's cohesion.

2:58:31With adding that, yeah, yeah, that's

2:58:33what I think.

2:58:34>> I love that word.

2:58:35>> Yeah, yes.

2:58:36So so we're going to make sure that you

2:58:37have the right project information and

2:58:40and tools.

2:58:41>> [clears throat]

2:58:41>> We're going to make sure that we don't

2:58:43overload you at the same time because

2:58:45that bogs down this kind of process. But

2:58:47that's why we have Mark and that's why

2:58:49you have all these people behind us to

2:58:50be able to answer those questions to

2:58:52give you that detail. But we realize we

2:58:54need to expand that just a little bit

2:58:55more. I appreciate that.

2:58:56>> Thank

2:58:57>> Um Council member Patel, thank you.

2:59:02>> Thank you. Um

2:59:04So in addition to what uh

2:59:06Council member Kesling-Johnson asked

2:59:09and I'm I'm assuming this will be

2:59:11included but I'm not sure so I'm going

2:59:12to ask

2:59:14for funding source of this project.

2:59:16I know you have estimated cost here but

2:59:19something that cost $4 million but has

2:59:22a grant of $1 million that between the

2:59:25difference. So if we can have that

2:59:26information

2:59:27>> Yes.

2:59:27>> that would be helpful.

2:59:28>> Uh absolutely agree and what we know

2:59:31we're going to give you. If we don't

2:59:33know it, I don't want to assume it but I

2:59:36I want to paint a picture of where the

2:59:37opportunities like that are and what

2:59:40project they're associated with. You go

2:59:41and look at your your project criteria

2:59:44that you've given us to measure. You

2:59:45actually put importance on that. So

2:59:49uh in that weighted criteria when those

2:59:51opportunities exist. So we want to make

2:59:53sure that we spell that out and we'll do

2:59:54a better job with that, too. Thank you.

2:59:57>> Thank you.

2:59:58>> Uh

3:00:00Who's next? Oh, Council member Kesling?

3:00:03>> So if we can go back to the slide nine

3:00:06real quick.

3:00:09So I know that um in the strategic

3:00:12goals, uh strategic goals is 10%. The

3:00:16extent to which project advances

3:00:17initiatives and objectives. I know

3:00:19sustainability is one of our

3:00:21>> Yes, right.

3:00:22>> strategic goals, but I do think that

3:00:26having decarbonization

3:00:28as a criterion or strategic driver

3:00:32in the CIP

3:00:34explicitly

3:00:36would be I would appreciate seeing that.

3:00:42>> Okay. Can you keep going with your

3:00:45>> Can you explain that a little further?

3:00:46I'm not sure I'm

3:00:48So, projects that cut emissions

3:00:52you know, advance

3:00:53align emissions reductions goals and

3:00:56public investments.

3:00:58So, things like what we've already been

3:01:00doing with the solar panels and

3:01:02certainly greenway expansion and

3:01:06electric vehicle

3:01:08charging areas.

3:01:09Um

3:01:11just more of that.

3:01:13More of

3:01:15a

3:01:18at least explicitly

3:01:20you know, being a goal within the CIP.

3:01:23>> Okay. That would require our governing

3:01:25council to change your criteria.

3:01:29I will share with you staff actually had

3:01:32the conversation of how we fold

3:01:34sustainability into the picture so that

3:01:37with each project you know those

3:01:38details. And and we've been kind of

3:01:41talking to it almost in the sense of

3:01:43knowing and understanding what are the

3:01:46operational impacts is also is there

3:01:49something we need to share with you on

3:01:50what are the sustainability impacts.

3:01:53And I would say

3:01:54I might

3:01:55I might suggest trying that and seeing

3:01:59it if it's there or not there with each

3:02:01project

3:02:03and allow the scoring to work. Cuz it is

3:02:06folded in, actually, into there's

3:02:08definitions. It goes further into how

3:02:11Mark scores a project. There's a one to

3:02:13five criteria rating that's in there,

3:02:15and it spells out. And so, it's built

3:02:18into several of those. Um it's it's just

3:02:22maybe not as transparent here. I can I

3:02:24can work on that to make it more

3:02:26transparent to the community so they

3:02:27know what to look at.

3:02:29To add a criteria would require a vote

3:02:32of council to alter and then re-count

3:02:35like the weights here.

3:02:37If you're willing to try

3:02:39>> You're saying there's a sub-matrix that

3:02:41>> Yes, there is.

3:02:42>> So, they they have some visibility that

3:02:44I can't see.

3:02:45>> We can do that.

3:02:46>> But it's part of strategic goals,

3:02:47probably.

3:02:51>> And then allow us to try putting it with

3:02:53each project. And then and then, you

3:02:55know, we can always rework this if we

3:02:57need to as we go.

3:03:00But I I would offer that as a

3:03:01suggestion. Do I have

3:03:03>> Brandon's one

3:03:04>> Oh, Brandon, sorry.

3:03:05>> No, you're fine. Thank you.

3:03:06>> me. I give up.

3:03:07>> So,

3:03:08>> [laughter]

3:03:08>> I think you can certainly talk about

3:03:10sustainability as a criterion, you know,

3:03:12in terms of identifying specific

3:03:14projects. I think you'll see a lot of

3:03:15that in the sustainability master plan.

3:03:18And of course, that's coming back for it

3:03:19to be updated in the next few months

3:03:22over over the course of, you know, a

3:03:23year plus. But so, they start there.

3:03:26They live there to an extent as a

3:03:28concept. And then once they start to

3:03:30come into we might work on in this

3:03:32five-year window, then you'll see them

3:03:34come into the CIP piece. I think it's a

3:03:35split of the two.

3:03:37>> Thank you. That was helpful.

3:03:41Okay.

3:03:43Council member Patel, and then I'm going

3:03:44to go to Council member Johnson. Oh,

3:03:46Council member Johnson.

3:03:47>> Okay, no.

3:03:48I'll just give my two cents.

3:03:51I I do think this process works, and it

3:03:53works really well. And we have It's

3:03:56taken us a while to get to this point,

3:03:58too. It wasn't always like this. And so,

3:04:00kudos to you again, Jimmy, cuz you're

3:04:02the one that helped us get here. But

3:04:04yeah, I think it works and I think what

3:04:07um is always amazing to me is when we

3:04:10get the combined information, we're

3:04:12really so much more aligned than we are

3:04:15than than

3:04:16um maybe we thought or me anyhow. Um so,

3:04:20it it it really works well.

3:04:22>> Thank you. Let's don't go proving each

3:04:25other wrong on that this year now.

3:04:27>> [laughter]

3:04:27>> Councilor Member Guesslin.

3:04:28>> Um I just want to um share a resource

3:04:31that I've I was just kind of doing

3:04:34some uh um Google searching here and um

3:04:37the

3:04:38World Bank's Climate Informed Capital

3:04:41Investment Planning [clears throat]

3:04:42Guidebook. Um I'd love for staff to take

3:04:44a look at that either through this CIP

3:04:46process or with the Master

3:04:47Sustainability Plan update.

3:04:49>> You can certainly share that with the

3:04:50town manager and

3:04:51>> Yes.

3:04:55>> All right, I'm not hearing any

3:04:58indifference to the process. I'm hearing

3:05:00lots of okay, let's move this forward.

3:05:03So, I'm going to wrap it up there with

3:05:05some

3:05:06either no head nods or just no.

3:05:08>> [laughter]

3:05:09>> And we can move on.

3:05:12Yes. All right, so before we start

3:05:14talking about projects, I want Mark to

3:05:16walk through some things that are really

3:05:17influential. If we can at least through

3:05:19get through this particular stage before

3:05:22you all decide to call it or keep going,

3:05:24that's up to you.

3:05:25>> So, this is the um 9:00 time check just

3:05:29so you know.

3:05:29>> Yeah, 4 minutes early.

3:05:32>> [laughter]

3:05:34>> I I think we can make it through this

3:05:36one. I think this one's important.

3:05:37>> I think the next few slides will be

3:05:38relatively quick. We're not going to

3:05:40spend a lot of time on active projects

3:05:41because they're in our capital projects

3:05:43report. We talked about those every

3:05:44month and you can ask questions anytime,

3:05:46so I don't think we need to go over the

3:05:47details of every single one of those. Um

3:05:49but we're going to start off just

3:05:50talking quickly about some of the

3:05:51planning side projects that we're

3:05:52working on and some that are we like to

3:05:54consider. Obviously, you know with the

3:05:56Parks Master Plan that that's uh

3:05:58in progress right now. We've gotten

3:06:00updates to that coming at the second

3:06:02meeting in November, so you'll get to

3:06:03see a lot about that. That's going to

3:06:05inform us about a lot of future park

3:06:06projects and certainly help us inform

3:06:08projects for the capital plan.

3:06:10Our comprehensive transportation

3:06:12transportation plan, Brett spent to see

3:06:14you already. He's given you an update.

3:06:16That'll continue on through through the

3:06:17spring. That'll also inform us from from

3:06:20uh a transportation perspective on

3:06:21future projects. We have intersection

3:06:23and projects proposed in there that

3:06:25they're going to be doing reviews of, so

3:06:27that'll help us

3:06:28plan for the future on those.

3:06:30We'd like to consider a a town center

3:06:33district visioning uh plan, which we

3:06:36which we don't have ongoing right now uh

3:06:39to look at the town center district. We

3:06:41when we did our land use plan update and

3:06:44we had a subarea plan to that in 2021,

3:06:46talked a little bit about town center,

3:06:48but it didn't take it to the level of

3:06:49detail I think that we should start

3:06:51looking at as we vision the whole

3:06:52district into the future, economic

3:06:54development, new public-private

3:06:56partnerships, um architectural

3:06:58standards, and we what what should we do

3:07:00with the rest of it, community centers,

3:07:01and things like that. So, that's

3:07:02something that we'd like to propose.

3:07:05Next slide.

3:07:08So, other small area plans that we're

3:07:09we're working on, some are working on,

3:07:11some we'd like to consider.

3:07:13We're actually in the process of doing a

3:07:14sidewalk gap assessment. There's still

3:07:16some sidewalk gaps that have not been um

3:07:19identified. Well, we've identified them

3:07:21and planned for them, but they haven't

3:07:22been implemented into a project. Uh so,

3:07:24we're we're working on prioritization of

3:07:26that, and that will help us inform some

3:07:27of our capital prioritization.

3:07:30You know about our sustainability plan

3:07:312.0.

3:07:32Uh we've selected a consultant. We're in

3:07:34contract negotiations with them now, so

3:07:36that that process will go on for I don't

3:07:38know, probably a year or so.

3:07:39Um we're thinking we need to do a

3:07:41comprehensive space needs study for the

3:07:43town. Uh we've got

3:07:45office space, current needs, future

3:07:48needs. We've got half of public works

3:07:49building that's still vacant. We've got

3:07:51other properties that we we'd like to

3:07:53look at comprehensively, so we'd like to

3:07:55consider something like that.

3:07:57We own the Harris Mill property where

3:07:58fire station number three has been

3:08:00built, but we still have about two acres

3:08:01or so left over on that property that

3:08:03can still be developed into something.

3:08:05We'd like to look at maybe highest and

3:08:06best use. What could that be? Could it

3:08:08be a park? Could it be a formal housing?

3:08:10What could it be? So, we'd like to

3:08:11consider some of that.

3:08:13Um and then

3:08:15So, Town Hall Drive and Church is

3:08:16something new we've been thinking about

3:08:18uh with Airport Boulevard extension

3:08:20coming through, town center, schools

3:08:23that exist [clears throat] today, all

3:08:24these new pedestrian improvements,

3:08:26intersection improvements. We'd like to

3:08:27look at those corridors a little more

3:08:28depth once Airport Boulevard is is

3:08:30completed and see how all that works

3:08:32together for pedestrian safety,

3:08:33intersection improvements, and just

3:08:35overall mobility for pedestrians and

3:08:37vehicles.

3:08:38Next slide.

3:08:40And uh

3:08:41>> You want to keep going with the market

3:08:43construction market?

3:08:45>> right-hand side of the page here,

3:08:47you know, as you know, we've had a lot

3:08:48of construction costs increases. We've

3:08:50been talking about this for years. This

3:08:52this year is no different. Uh it was

3:08:54relatively stable. It was a small

3:08:55increase nationally.

3:08:58Um material prices have increased quite

3:08:59a bit. There's still a lot of difficulty

3:09:01with labor, getting labor workers in.

3:09:04Um we don't necessarily see any slowdown

3:09:06next year. There's still an anticipated

3:09:08increase

3:09:09uh for this upcoming year. So, just be

3:09:11aware that when we do our capital

3:09:13planning, we're also looking at

3:09:14increases each year, right? So, it's

3:09:16it's never going to be stagnant figures.

3:09:18Uh so, we take that into consideration

3:09:20when we're doing our capital planning.

3:09:22>> I'll touch just briefly on the the

3:09:24fiscal capital capacity and

3:09:26affordability and indicators. You're

3:09:28going to get uh I'm contemplating

3:09:30bringing our financial advisors in so

3:09:32they can actually talk to you when we

3:09:33get to the point of those scenarios.

3:09:36This is where they start to play a big

3:09:37role, but the key takeaway on these um

3:09:41indices is that we have some capacity

3:09:44that we've been able to identify. Now,

3:09:46it's general it's across from fiscal

3:09:48year '28 through

3:09:50What is that? '32? Gosh, I can't see

3:09:52that far. Uh

3:09:53and it has to be in at least two to

3:09:56three issuances. That's the key here.

3:09:58You can't do all 40 million at once.

3:10:00We've never been able to do the 37

3:10:02million that we got last time or the 20

3:10:04that we did the time before that. We've

3:10:06always had to break it up to be able to

3:10:08afford it uh and to balance our capacity

3:10:11because we measure what we decide to do

3:10:14in this 5-year picture to keep it

3:10:16realistic. We measure ourselves against

3:10:18all of those policy metrics that you've

3:10:21adopted, that you've said we have to

3:10:23measure to. Every one of them are

3:10:25showing capacity for us. Uh we'll pause

3:10:29and just say if you've got direct

3:10:30questions about that, I'm happy to

3:10:32address them. I will urge you to say

3:10:35that when we get to that conversation

3:10:37and you have something to look at in

3:10:39front of you that's a that it's a uh

3:10:41financial funding scenario, our

3:10:44financial advisors are going to walk you

3:10:45through in much greater detail. And this

3:10:48is where I think the the new folks,

3:10:50you're going to get a lot of good

3:10:51information.

3:10:52>> And when will that happen?

3:10:54>> That's going to happen when we get um

3:10:56past your final prioritization in

3:10:59January, February and it will follow

3:11:01into the March time period. That's

3:11:03usually when I've brought um funding

3:11:05models back to you.

3:11:09All right.

3:11:10I'm going to

3:11:10move us to Well, I'm going to say it's

3:11:13not a two.

3:11:14We're at the place right now where we

3:11:16can start talking about dividing the pot

3:11:18of projects. What What do we need to

3:11:21watch and keep an eye on because it's

3:11:24going to impact those funding funding

3:11:25model scenarios cuz

3:11:27things are working, they're active

3:11:29projects. From the the items that need

3:11:32to be project concepts that we're seeing

3:11:35right now, we're not saying it's the

3:11:36final list. We can pick that up if

3:11:40council's ready to move on and go to

3:11:43November 10th.

3:11:45This is a natural stopping point is what

3:11:47I'm offering to you. I would if it is

3:11:50your will, you want to pick it up this

3:11:52from this point forward on November

3:11:5410th. I would ask you to go back between

3:11:57now and then and start thinking about

3:11:59those vision ideas. You know, what do

3:12:02you want to improve? What outcomes do

3:12:04you want to change?

3:12:07Are the projects that Mark's team has

3:12:09put forth in in the you know, the list

3:12:12that we

3:12:13we certainly have provided to some of

3:12:14the information. Does any of that line

3:12:17up? Is there something missing that you

3:12:19feel like we need to address and let us

3:12:22know that November 10th. And in the

3:12:25meantime, I'm going to get you more

3:12:26detail on the project concepts that are

3:12:28already there that Mark and I

3:12:31have promised to give you.

3:12:33>> And will we get soft copy of this or do

3:12:35you already have it?

3:12:36>> So that's available online but I can

3:12:38make sure that we email it to you.

3:12:41This is well down in the book. Uh, Mayor

3:12:43Pro Tem Rabady.

3:12:45Uh,

3:12:46I have to be honest with you, I'm done.

3:12:48I don't know how everybody else feels. I

3:12:50I'm done.

3:12:52>> Yeah, I appreciate that.

3:12:55>> Can I just ask one quick question and

3:12:57then I'm done too.

3:12:58Um,

3:13:00what we have in front of us here does

3:13:02not take into account the conversation

3:13:04we just had on two or dozen or

3:13:07[clears throat] how does it affect this?

3:13:08The conversation we had on Tuesday about

3:13:11um,

3:13:13the additional funding needed for the

3:13:15cricket fields. How does it affect this

3:13:18what I'm holding in my hand?

3:13:19>> So that's your current CIP. It's

3:13:22projected at what we knew before we came

3:13:25to you the other night.

3:13:26>> Okay.

3:13:27>> Does that answer your question?

3:13:28>> Yes, it does.

3:13:29>> And and yes, there's some impact

3:13:32to the projects on that list and they

3:13:34would be your park projects that are in

3:13:36the window, which one you're designing

3:13:38right now.

3:13:41>> If I could add something, if you decide

3:13:43to end tonight, that's perfectly fine.

3:13:45Please look through 18 pages 18 and

3:13:48beyond because it's all the the project

3:13:50proposals that are kind of floating to

3:13:52help you, you know, sort of

3:13:54>> good stuff.

3:13:54>> Uh right, 16 and 2017 is more active

3:13:57projects. So, I just just trying to give

3:13:58that perspective. You want to take that

3:14:00home as homework, it's fine.

3:14:02>> Okay.

3:14:03Uh Council member

3:14:05>> No, just

3:14:06last question, seriously.

3:14:08Um

3:14:10I think Council member Johnson asked

3:14:12this question by email. I didn't

3:14:13understand the answer clearly, but uh if

3:14:15you go to uh slide number

3:14:19I think it's one or two slides

3:14:21below

3:14:21>> Before this one?

3:14:22>> This one. Uh the active projects list.

3:14:24>> Oh, yes.

3:14:25>> Oh, active project list.

3:14:26>> after it. Yeah. Yep. Yep, this one.

3:14:29So, here we have the the cricket field

3:14:31update. It it's 6 million latest cost

3:14:35that includes that 1 million additional.

3:14:37>> That latest projected cost does, but you

3:14:40see the funding sources are only five.

3:14:43>> Yes, and that's what I was going to

3:14:44Okay. Yeah.

3:14:46>> And what um

3:14:47>> And and these two slides 16 and 17 and

3:14:49these are all active committed projects.

3:14:52We make commitments, they're generally

3:14:54funded.

3:14:55Like, you know, with the exception of

3:14:56that one. So, they're they're all kind

3:14:57of in progress and things like that. So,

3:14:59these aren't ones to be looking at for

3:15:00like, oh, we're going to make major

3:15:01changes. You can cancel ones or already

3:15:04inside of it, but these are already in

3:15:06progress.

3:15:06>> That's kind of what I was saying

3:15:07earlier. These are the ones that we

3:15:09>> Correct.

3:15:11>> They're not really part of the five the

3:15:12five-year future funding years. They're

3:15:14they're already in in progress.

3:15:16>> Yeah.

3:15:18And we can talk more about that on

3:15:19November 10th. So, bring your questions

3:15:21November 10th that you need more clarity

3:15:24on when it comes to dividing that

3:15:26bucket, and we'll help you through that.

3:15:28And the the why behind we might be

3:15:30proposing it this way. There's some

3:15:32things that um in talking with Michelle

3:15:34obviously and with the work they're

3:15:35doing and Brett and with Mark. Uh, we've

3:15:39made commitments on some things that

3:15:41haven't yet come to a an appropriation

3:15:44window yet, but we've made commitments

3:15:46as a town and we need to honor those

3:15:48commitments. You don't need to

3:15:49re-prioritize those. So, we'll talk more

3:15:51about that on November 10th.

3:15:54>> So, you can divide the bucket with that

3:15:56term there.

3:15:56>> So, just recognize you have active

3:15:59projects, you have active projects that

3:16:01have things that are going to impact

3:16:02your funding capacity that we have to

3:16:04account for on one side and then you

3:16:07have projects, new things you want to

3:16:09bring into the window or put back in the

3:16:11window of the five-year picture that you

3:16:13want to propose to fund. And so, that's

3:16:16what you need to focus on to prioritize

3:16:18cuz you've already given us direction on

3:16:19the things that we're working on that

3:16:21are active. Make sense? Okay.

3:16:24All right, I'm getting

3:16:26the the the time to go home genie sign

3:16:29and everybody's face here. Council

3:16:31member Kesley. I'm sorry, it's behind

3:16:33the water bucket again. So.

3:16:35>> [laughter]

3:16:35>> No worries.

3:16:36So,

3:16:38I just wanted to throw out another

3:16:41Strong Towns idea,

3:16:43which is that of small bets,

3:16:45um.

3:16:45>> Say that one more time.

3:16:47>> Small bets, yeah. Um.

3:16:50And I want to preface all of that by

3:16:52saying, um.

3:16:55I think Morrisville, the town staff,

3:16:58previous council has done an excellent

3:17:00job moving things forward, um,

3:17:03but the the idea of small bets is, um.

3:17:06Uh, small, low-risk experimental

3:17:08investments that can be tried, learned

3:17:10from, and scaled, um.

3:17:12Spreading risk across small initiatives

3:17:14instead of putting all eggs in one

3:17:15basket. I think we have a lot of

3:17:18big eggs

3:17:19spread across, so I don't think that's

3:17:21uh, necessarily applies here. Um, the

3:17:23idea there is that if the small bet

3:17:24fails, the cost is minimal. If it

3:17:26succeeds, it can be duplicated

3:17:28elsewhere. And with the small bets,

3:17:29there is like sidewalk widening trials,

3:17:32crosswalk bump-outs, um wayfinding

3:17:34signs, just small things that improve

3:17:36the community. Just a little small thing

3:17:38here and there. Um

3:17:40so this is the it's a concept, it's an

3:17:42idea, um

3:17:43but I'm I'm looking forward to getting

3:17:45into um you know, some some uh larger

3:17:48projects. To throw out some of that

3:17:50vision, if I can,

3:17:52um certainly having a butterfly way

3:17:54station in the town center, especially

3:17:55if the town if blocks globe is changed

3:17:57to something butterfly related. Uh

3:17:59regular night market at town center, um

3:18:02that might be good for young people.

3:18:03That's something I saw in Taiwan and

3:18:05Asia.

3:18:06Um projects that cut emissions, projects

3:18:09that provide shade, um allow people to

3:18:11linger. Um so

3:18:13just throwing all that out there while I

3:18:15have it all written out tonight.

3:18:17>> Sounds great.

3:18:18All right, we'll wrap.

3:18:20>> I know I said last question.

3:18:21>> Oh, no, you got last one.

3:18:23>> [laughter]

3:18:24>> This is active projects. It has the cost

3:18:26estimate next to it, all of them.

3:18:29Uh

3:18:32am I to assume that these are all funded

3:18:34active projects or we still need to

3:18:36>> You talking about this worksheet?

3:18:39>> 16 and 17.

3:18:41>> 16 and 17. Yes, those have active

3:18:43planned funding associated with them.

3:18:46Um those are things that Mark's team's

3:18:49been working on, have been working on,

3:18:51or about to work on. And we're just

3:18:54recognizing there's factors we need to

3:18:55monitor for. And then the other group uh

3:19:00these are things that we know are going

3:19:01to have future impacts and we've tried

3:19:03to point out where these future impacts

3:19:05could be. Some of them positive, um

3:19:07potentially negative. But we need to

3:19:09account for that when I when I bring

3:19:11back I can't just look at your

3:19:12prioritized projects. If I'm going to

3:19:14create a fundable solution, I've got to

3:19:16step back and look at everything.

3:19:19Everything that's active, everything

3:19:20that has a potential to impact that

3:19:22capacity that impacts affordability. And

3:19:25then build in your prioritized projects

3:19:28as best we can.

3:19:31Okay, that's it.

3:19:33>> But I'm going to ask one last question.

3:19:34>> Okay, that's three times y'all I've

3:19:36tried to wrap this. So, just going on

3:19:37record.

3:19:38>> [laughter]

3:19:39>> How does the slowing of revenue growth

3:19:42impact the CIP?

3:19:44>> So, you'll get a lot more about that in

3:19:46the funding model. And and so, not to go

3:19:50into a lot of details cuz this one know

3:19:52I as I can.

3:19:53We measure specifically take new

3:19:56information data and re-up that

3:19:59information model, run through and test

3:20:03against the metrics we measure against.

3:20:05We look for other opportunities and

3:20:07resources to see how we can plan. So,

3:20:10we're all over that and that's where our

3:20:11financial advisors give us really good

3:20:14advice of when we go too far. And they

3:20:17actually then go far enough to compare

3:20:20us and using our metrics to to the to

3:20:23the regional level as well as the

3:20:25national level. So, we get to look at it

3:20:27from different lenses of how we fit. And

3:20:31are we fiscally responsible or we not?

3:20:35All right, that's it y'all. No more

3:20:36questions. Save them up, write them

3:20:38down. Thank you very much for affirming

3:20:40the process.

3:20:42>> Thank you.

3:20:43>> Thank you, Mark.

3:20:44>> [laughter]

3:20:45>> Thank you. It's about to get started.

3:20:50Uh Town Manager, is there anything for

3:20:51the good of the audience?

3:20:53>> No.

3:20:54>> I can entertain a motion to adjourn.

3:20:56>> Yes.

3:20:57>> I'll make that motion.

3:20:58>> Second. Motion by Mayor Pro Tem Vitale,

3:21:00second by Council Member Casting. All

3:21:02those in favor of the journey, please

3:21:03say

3:21:04Aye.

3:21:05>> Aye.

3:21:05>> Aye. Any opposed?

3:21:08Hearing none, that carries unanimously

3:21:096-0. We are adjourned. Thank you all

3:21:11very much.

3:21:42>> Mhm.