2026-07-30 - Town Council Work Session

17:59Good evening. I now call the Morrisville

18:01Town Council work session to order for

18:03July 30th, 2026.

18:06Um, first I'd like to recognize the town

18:08manager for request for an additional

18:10close session.

18:11>> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, you have one close

18:13session on the agenda tonight for a

18:15matter involving a contract or lease.

18:17I'd like to add a second brief uh close

18:19session relating to a personnel matter.

18:22Okay. Um do I just need head knots for

18:25that since we don't really adopt an

18:27agenda or should we appropriate? Okay.

18:30Is everyone okay with that? Go ahead and

18:32add that. Okay. Seeing head knots all

18:34around. Um we have two discussion items

18:37this evening. At first we would like to

18:39recognize um Britney Johnson, our

18:42planning manager to help us with a

18:43public art update. the icon initiative.

18:47We're very excited to talk about this

18:48tonight. Thank you, Britney.

18:51>> Good evening, mayor and council. Um, it

18:54is my pleasure to be here as well. Super

18:56excited about this item that we're

18:58taking a very major step forward. We're

19:00here to select our final icon

19:03installation locations and also select

19:06design.

19:08Let's see.

19:12So before we get into those two tasks,

19:14first we'll have a little bit of

19:15background. So on January 28th, town

19:18council selected the icon initiative as

19:21their second initiative to our public

19:23art program.

19:25On May 27th, an administrative update

19:28was shared with council outlining the

19:30proposed project out timeline as well as

19:33public engagement strategies and artist

19:35selection.

19:37On November 25th, staff presented the

19:40top three icons that were derived from

19:42public engagement efforts and the

19:44butterfly was selected as our official

19:46icon. On February 26, town council

19:49selected design details.

19:56On May 26, an administrative update was

19:58shared with council and the 3D draft was

20:01approved. On May 27th, 2026, staff

20:05presented the location options to the

20:07parks, recreation, and cultural

20:08resources advisory committee, and

20:10locations were prioritized. And lastly,

20:12on July 22nd, staff presented design

20:15submissions to the parks, recreation,

20:17and cultural resources advisory

20:18committee, and the top 10 design loca

20:21design selections were prioritized as

20:24well.

20:27So here, if you look closely, this is a

20:30rough uh version of our final icon. So

20:34you'll see the edging haven't been

20:36removed here, but that is super

20:38exciting.

20:40With the final size, it is about 4t 2 in

20:45in height and 3 feet 9 in in width.

20:54Just to briefly review our icon

20:56initiative flowchart. Step one was

20:58public engagement. We introduced the

21:00project and solicited feedback at four

21:02inerson events and also online. Step two

21:06was our icon fabrication. The icon was

21:09selected. Design details were finalized

21:11and the manufacturer was selected as

21:13well and a contract was executed. Step

21:15three was location prioritization.

21:18An online call for artists was issued

21:20and the parks rights and cultural

21:22resources advisory committee did

21:24prioritize locations and now here for

21:27council to consider.

21:33Step four, which is our current step, is

21:36our icon installation and that will

21:38entail again final design selection and

21:41installation location selection and

21:43lastly site preparation installation.

21:46Our fifth and final step, we will review

21:48and evaluate our process.

21:57So, uh again, your task for tonight

22:00first will be your final location

22:02selection followed by design selection.

22:05So, first we'll have the location

22:07selection. On May 27th, Parks and Rights

22:10did review a list of town properties and

22:14uh the total list is here listed for

22:16you, which consists of Morrisville

22:18Community Park, MAFC, Cedar Fort

22:20District Park, Indian Creek Trail Head,

22:23the Morrisville Dog Park, Northwest Park

22:25as an alternative, uh Fire Station at

22:29Harris Mill, Church Street Park, Town

22:32Center when completed, and Town Hall as

22:34well. So the parks and rats advisory

22:37committee did select five locations and

22:41also selected one alternate. So you'll

22:43see those five here with an asterisk and

22:45I'll read those again. That's

22:47Morrisville Community Park, MAFC, Cedar

22:50Fork District Park, Indian Creek Trail

22:52Head, the Morrisville dog park and again

22:54Northwest Park as an alternative.

23:04So multiple factors were considered when

23:07uh selecting these locations and areas

23:10within these locations. First existing

23:12features like lighting, hardscape and

23:15you know its overall visibility as well

23:18uh reviewing each for uh how well they

23:23will uh again be interfaced by the

23:25public in a pedestrian way.

23:30So I will go over all of the locations

23:32and then we'll open for discussion. So

23:34the first is Morrisville Community Park.

23:36There were two areas identified. So

23:39you'll see the overall part here. One

23:41location there is an area that is

23:43directly adjacent to the playground and

23:46the picnic shelter and then another that

23:49is by the restroom shelter that is

23:51further uh into the park. So those are

23:54two areas that have been identified for

23:56possible installation.

24:01The second location is MASC. You'll see

24:03here that it is adjacent. So in the

24:06larger floor, the larger aerial here,

24:09it's about this location. It's adjacent

24:11to the current uh smart shuttle node.

24:21Third is Fish is Cedar Fork District

24:24Park and there were two again there is a

24:26location where I think it's three or two

24:29two or three greenways that converge at

24:31one point and it's really a really nice

24:33area. I don't know if you've been back

24:34there but certainly uh could make that

24:38area even more special.

24:42Next we have Indian Creek trail head

24:44which is adjacent to Lake Morrisville

24:46our stormwater facility here as well has

24:49a high visibility from town hall drive.

24:51It is separated from the playground

24:53which will help discourage uh those that

24:55may think that it is designed to be

24:56played upon.

25:02Next we have Morris dog park and there

25:04are two prime locations for our

25:06installation and again the we would be

25:09selecting one of the areas. So in the

25:11aerial you'll see here both of them are

25:13directly outside of the uh play area and

25:16there's one this one is a little closer

25:18to the gate and this one is a little

25:19further away and closer to the parking

25:21area.

25:24And lastly, as an alternative, Northwest

25:26Park was selected. And if this location

25:29is selected, the area of installation

25:31would be here, which is right where the

25:35picnic shelter is here, playground, and

25:37also the walking trail.

25:43Now that we have reviewed all five of

25:45the locations,

25:47uh our first question here is is council

25:50comfortable with the five locations that

25:51have been prioritized by parks and

25:53reccks and I will open up for discussion

25:55before we move on to design selection.

26:00>> Do you want to help you or you want to

26:01do it yourself?

26:02>> Um

26:04okay, I'll go ahead and and do it

26:06myself. So, I'm going to go back to the

26:08slide where we are showing all of the

26:11locations listed so you can see them

26:13together. Um, again, uh, the asterric is

26:17a little small, but hopefully you can

26:19see that these are the five locations

26:21that have been prioritized in Northwest

26:23Park is our alternate. So, uh, I guess

26:27we will start

26:36Thank you very much for bringing this

26:38next milestone to us for consideration.

26:42Um I have a basic question about how the

26:45installation location

26:48um suggestions were um presented to the

26:52park and Rex committee. Um, did they

26:56spontaneously offer locations or were

26:58they given a specific list to select and

27:01prioritize?

27:03>> Yes, they were given this full list here

27:05that's present on this on the screen and

27:07then they selected the five that have

27:09the asterric.

27:11>> Okay. Well, thank you for that um

27:15detail. I actually think that we're

27:17missing an opportunity for a location

27:20that is not on this list. And I think

27:23that there are several of our greenways

27:27that have kind of a a melding together

27:31where you can go multiple directions in

27:34town. Um I am terrible with names, but

27:38there's one that connects um the Cedar

27:41Fork trailway system. It's it's kind of

27:44like there's an intersection that'll go

27:46towards Preston and then all also go

27:49it's it's you know

27:50>> it's a hatcher. the Hedrick Creek

27:52Greenway.

27:54>> Um, having an icon there gives a sense

27:58of place and um, it's an unexpected

28:02surprise kind of thing versus the Morris

28:06Aquatics and Fitness Center. And I'm not

28:08in favor of that, by the way. We already

28:11have a mural. So, we're trying to use

28:14the icons to expand the um, impact of

28:19art in our town. And if we put two of

28:21our um art installations at Morseville

28:25Aquatic Center, we're not really

28:27expanding. We're we're more or less

28:30cluttering. And I I don't feel I think

28:33we really need to embrace the murals and

28:36uh let them stand on their own and not

28:39have some have something novel in

28:41another location. So,

28:45um I would want to see some areas of the

28:50greenway system that are intersection

28:52kind of bringing us together because we

28:54always say live connected, live well.

28:57The icons could do something like that.

28:59Connecting the town. So,

29:03I'd like to maybe suggest we look at

29:05three sites tonight and hold on the um

29:08last two till we revisit the locations

29:12again.

29:14And um because I think that um you know,

29:19in the dog park, I'm not a real fan of

29:21putting something at the dog park right

29:23now because I think again that is pretty

29:25close to one of the murals which is the

29:27fire station. I want to have um more

29:32bringing in. So, community park, I can

29:35see that uh Cedar Fork District Park,

29:38but maybe that district park location is

29:40not at the park itself, but it's at the

29:43greenway adjacent to the park where

29:45there's intersections of greenway

29:47trails. So, that's just a different way

29:49of thinking about the Cedar Fork

29:51District Park and Indian Creek Trail Net

29:55is good. I I will give you a little

29:59preview. I am not in favor of putting an

30:02icon at the town center because we just

30:05went through an extensive branding kind

30:07of thing. We want to create a certain

30:09vibe. So, we can integrate the butterfly

30:13into the town center without having an

30:16icon there. It's like we have all these

30:18icons around the town and then in the

30:20town center we have a different way of

30:24presenting and integrating the the

30:27butterfly like you were suggesting. So

30:30that way we can even expand that art

30:32experience a little bit further and get

30:34more um for our money. So that's might

30:39be back on location. Thank you.

30:45Where are the three murals?

30:48>> So, the three murals currently uh reside

30:50at Shiloh Park uh Fire Admin, which is

30:53here at the corner, and then MFC.

31:02So, I would the same thing that Vicki

31:05raised uh Council Member Scargin raised

31:07about the uh

31:10uh the Cedar Fork District Park. I have

31:12the same thought about the Morrisville

31:14Community Park. I'd love to have a a

31:16butterfly there, but right behind the

31:18playground, there's a place where three

31:20trails converge and that gets tons of

31:24foot traffic and bike traffic. And I

31:27mean, I've never been there that it

31:28hasn't been super crowded. So, I think

31:30that would be a better location

31:33at the than the location proposed

31:36because that location is so close to the

31:38playground that I worry that there's

31:40just going to be kids climbing all the

31:42time. So, um

31:45and the dog park, I I wonder if the

31:49people that think we should have a

31:50butterfly there have never owned a dog

31:53because I my concern there would be that

31:56the paint would be

31:59terminated off the the butterfly.

32:03I mean,

32:05within I I don't know, my dog, I'd

32:07probably do it by himself in in a couple

32:09months. So, I'm not in favor of the dog

32:11park. Um,

32:14and

32:16I I I I'm not in favor of Marsville

32:20Aquatics and Fitness Center. Um, but I

32:22do think it'd be nice to have one at

32:24town hall. I actually think having one

32:26right out there would be really nice.

32:29The only thing is I mean we can't just

32:32have five butterflies and stop like

32:35we're going to have to do another round

32:37of butterflies because five butterflies

32:40in a 10 square mile town is not a lot of

32:44butterflies. So, you know, I just but

32:46for the first locations that would be my

32:49feedback would be I'd like the community

32:51park one to be in that greenway

32:53intersection. Um, I agree with Council

32:56Member Scar Johnson about the Cedar Fork

32:58District Park one. Um, and I'd like to

33:01see one at town hall. I don't think

33:03Church Street Park needs one. And I I I

33:07agree we don't need one at the town

33:08center.

33:22So I agree with both Mamm and Council

33:27Scish Johnson on

33:31on trails. Uh I would like to see one

33:35there. Now did you both say that you are

33:38in favor of or not in favor of one at

33:41Town Center?

33:42I wasn't an icon like this. Not in town

33:47center. We can still use the, you know,

33:50visual of a butterfly in different ways.

33:54>> Okay.

33:54>> And we have a whole scape of um the

33:59spritzers and stuff like that. I'm just

34:01con concerned there'll be too much.

34:03>> Yeah, I I agree with you. I just wasn't

34:05sure.

34:06>> Also, I think that we if we if the town

34:09center Well, I'm sorry. If [snorts] the

34:11town center's built and then we have a

34:14space that's just crying out for

34:16something, I say we get it with the

34:17second round of butterflies. Like I want

34:19these installed as soon as possible.

34:22So, I would be in favor of uh one uh at

34:28least one at one of the trails uh and

34:31then one at town hall uh instead of the

34:35dog park. Dog definitely. Yeah, I agree

34:37with you. That doesn't sound right. And

34:42also the aquatic center already.

34:47>> I'm sorry. What's the last location?

34:50Morrisville Republic Center and and Dog

34:53Park.

34:55>> Those are

34:56>> not in favor of those two.

34:58>> And you did say Morrisville Community

35:00Park, Town Hall, and what was the third?

35:02I think it was here.

35:03>> The uh No, the what was the trail that

35:07you mentioned?

35:08>> District.

35:09>> Cedar District. So there and uh uh town

35:13too.

35:17just pointed at the intersection of

35:28>> Um so I'd like to echo what I was um had

35:32mentioned at the Tuesday meeting. Um and

35:35I I'll get on to the location in a

35:37second, but certainly finding those

35:39locations where if the butterflies are

35:41actually pointing towards town center,

35:43um that would be really nice. One thing

35:44I'm noticing with the list so far um all

35:47the asterisk squans minus Northwest Park

35:50is that they're pretty much all along um

35:54kind of this center belt of town. Um so

35:57I would be interested in certainly

35:59getting more vertical distance between

36:02them as opposed to having them on I

36:03guess Morrisville's equator essentially.

36:05Um but I do like um actually one

36:09question. um

36:12what would happen if kids climbed on

36:14them.

36:15>> So, uh they are built to withstand some

36:18pressure. However, we will have signs

36:20that are posted. So, they are durable,

36:22but we just don't want, you know, for a

36:24child to kind of hang on them, complete

36:26body weight, that kind of thing.

36:27>> Yeah. I remember seeing one of the

36:28pictures had um that brick kind of

36:31seating around it and then the the

36:34putting it right in the middle of that

36:35and I was thinking I don't think that's

36:37a good idea having people hanging out

36:39there. Um but I do um I like the

36:43crossroads. I like uh I think um where

36:52where the se Cedar Fork District Park I

36:54do like that location. Um,

36:58I do like Morrisville Community Park.

37:01Um, I do like Northwest Park. Um, I

37:04think there's nothing there's nothing no

37:06art up there now. And that's kind of

37:08that's pretty far away from, you know,

37:09where all all the action is. Um,

37:16I'm not in favor of Morrisville Aquatics

37:17and Fitness Center. Um, a couple

37:20reasons. I think the way it would be

37:22placed wouldn't point towards town

37:24center, I'm sure. Uh but also I think

37:26yes with the other mural that's there.

37:28Um I was not I was not I was thinking oh

37:32the dog park would work because you

37:33could point it towards town center but I

37:37agree with the rest of my colleagues

37:39here about um uh one being too close to

37:42the uh fire admin as well as being

37:45around uh dogs. That might not be such a

37:47great idea. Um, I like the Indian Creek

37:51trail head with that one. That's kind of

37:53like it's not necessarily pointing to

37:55the town green, but it's pointing to,

37:56you know, what the future town center is

37:57going to be. Um, certainly if it's, you

37:59know, kind of dead centered on the on

38:02the pad there, I think that's a good

38:03location. Um, would Indian Creek Trail

38:07Head be too close to town hall to um to

38:11have one? I don't know. Um

38:15certainly if uh

38:19the Indian Creek trail head I'm assuming

38:21would probably last longer because the

38:23town hall area as the town center

38:25redevelops it'll be a little bit

38:28different in the future I'm sure. Um so

38:31just think about that. But I think

38:36I think that's five right? I like the

38:39Morrisville Community Park. I like Cedar

38:40Fork District Park or the um

38:44trail head or the um where trails meet.

38:47Uh

38:50Indian Creek Trail Head. I like that. I

38:52like Northwest Park. I guess I don't

38:53have a fifth one for you.

38:55>> Sounds good.

38:57>> How about the library?

39:00>> That's town center.

39:07books.

39:19>> You ready for me?

39:20>> Okay. [laughter]

39:21So, I'm on the same wavelength.

39:24I [clears throat]

39:25um I don't want it at the dog park or

39:28the aquatics and fitness center because

39:29there's already art mural that's in

39:32close proximity, especially at Quax and

39:34Fitness Center. So, I'd like to that

39:37this idea of spreading it out across

39:39town. I like that. I honestly would put

39:41them all on a greenway somewhere. I

39:44would put them at those intersections.

39:46I'm looking at the greenway map trying

39:48to um figure out five locations. But um

39:51I would I would put them where Ann

39:55talked about, you know, if you're going

39:56to put it in Morsville Community Park,

39:58I'd put it back at that intersection

40:00where where you come behind Georgina is

40:02that intersection of the greenway there.

40:04You're right. There are tons of people

40:06that walk by there all the time. The

40:08intersection at the Cedar Park District

40:10Park, I think that's a fabulous

40:11location, too. Um, I I I I do like this

40:16idea of spreading it to Northwest Park,

40:19although there's no greenway

40:20intersection there, but um

40:24>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um I don't that's

40:27besides the greenway. I I got nothing

40:30else for you. [laughter]

40:31>> And I I don't want to put one um too

40:34close to the town center either.

40:35Although I will tell you the one that's

40:37kind of blue there that might if we land

40:39on the color scheme that might work

40:42really well at the Indian Creek trail

40:44head but you know which is close

40:47proximity to the town center but um

40:49anyhow that's as much feedback I'm

40:51giving right now Britney. Thank you.

40:55>> So I like all this. This is going a lot

40:57differently than I expected. Um lots

41:00more feedback. I was thinking kind of

41:02more generally. I I I've seen the trolls

41:06and they're not really like statues to

41:08look at. They're more like things to

41:10find. So like being along greenways is

41:13kind of more what I'm thinking. Quick

41:14question to staff. How sturdy is the

41:18installation? Like how movable are they?

41:20because I asked because it'd be nice to

41:22start like at Morrisville Community Park

41:25near the two baseball fields and show it

41:28like a statue for a month or two and

41:30then move it to a different part of the

41:32park like the butterflies are flying to

41:34different places and then we can do

41:37scavenger hunts and try to introduce

41:39people to more of our greenways because

41:41Mil Spring Greenway and Grace Park

41:43Greenway, I'd imagine that maybe 5% of

41:45our town knows they exist.

41:48So, we could use this as a a theme. So,

41:51they don't be permanently at these spots

41:55within each park. So, I was just

41:57wondering if that's reasonable.

41:59>> That should be weighing.

42:01>> They're about 50 to 60 pounds.

42:04>> Yeah. So, they can be moved. These are

42:06designed to be temporary. They are

42:08certainly fixed and so they won't be

42:10moved until they are moved by public

42:13works. But uh certainly they can be can

42:16be moved and I think that's one thing

42:18when you're looking at the colors for

42:20town center or branding keeping in mind

42:22that you know once that is solidified

42:24once town center has been established

42:27then we can always uh respond with uh

42:31public art and uh I think that the other

42:34thing was how is it fixed but yeah it

42:36can be moved. Okay. So, I'd like us to

42:39sort of think about that that these are

42:40initial locations. Um, in which case, if

42:43we're starting off like as statues, I

42:46think a lot of locations that were shown

42:47before, like um even at that little

42:50place uh near the shelter at Morsville

42:52Community Park, even though it has a

42:53thing, a lot of people see it there. So,

42:56we have to decide, are we looking for

42:57places where everyone's going to see it?

42:59Um, or where people see it when they

43:01walk by and it's kind of like a a

43:03surprise discovery. Um, so I'm I'm

43:06pretty good with what everyone said. Um,

43:09and so for if we were to do the dog

43:11park, for example, you could put it down

43:12at that that stub that you were talking

43:15about of Hadrick Creek where that thing

43:18is. So it's still near the dog park and

43:19moving around. I don't think the dog

43:21park is too close to the fire station,

43:23for example. MFC and the mural might be

43:26that might be a little close,

43:27>> but

43:28>> I can see

43:29>> you can see from both.

43:31>> Um, so those are just kind of my my

43:33loose thoughts. Doesn't like we're

43:35giving final decisions now, but I think

43:37whatever you've gotten from the group,

43:39I'm good with those locations knowing

43:41that we might move them around a little

43:42bit and have some fun with it. And I'm

43:45all in favor of doing five more as soon

43:47as possible. Um, funding is pretty much

43:49the thing. So, if we want to really lean

43:52into doing things like this for our

43:54community, we just have to realize that

43:56the funding is the holdback. Um, so it's

43:59up to us to decide on that.

44:03>> All right. So now that everyone has had

44:05a chance to weigh in, councel,

44:07>> I just have one one question. If we go

44:10with both town hall and Indian Creek

44:14trail head, are they too close?

44:24>> And that's what I'm asking.

44:28>> You don't need I would go with Indian.

44:34We already have it in fair. So,

44:36>> let's all try to use our microphones

44:37more. I know I've been guilty about not

44:39doing that. You're doing it fine.

44:40>> Okay.

44:42>> So, if if we don't

44:45uh do it at town hall, then maybe we can

44:48put it at one of the other trail

44:51intersection instead of town hall.

44:55>> Yeah. All right. So, then we just need

44:57to identify that.

45:00>> Okay. So

45:01>> now I have another question because I

45:03now it makes me nervous that they're

45:05movable.

45:06>> So are they like are they bolted down

45:09because

45:10>> they are bolted down. It's movable in

45:12the same sense that a park bench is

45:15movable. So it's there but it can be

45:18removed.

45:19>> Okay. Because I don't want these to end

45:20up in college dorms.

45:23>> No. Um, and to summarize what I've

45:26heard, uh, I hear one majority certainly

45:29want adjacency to greenways. So, I think

45:32that Morrisville Community Park

45:34identifying the location that is closest

45:36to the greenway. Uh, let's see here. Uh,

45:39Cedar District Park and Indian Creek

45:42Trail Head because those three are

45:44located close to greenways. So, moving

45:46forward with those three locations. The

45:49other is that you want us to come back

45:51with additional options and I think the

45:53runner up for the fourth would have been

45:56Northwest Park.

45:58Okay.

46:07Um I guess along the lines with the um

46:11thinking about you know kids climbing on

46:13it. Certainly Northwest Park is a

46:15popular place for kids. So that's a

46:17consideration as well especially if it's

46:19very prominently located. Um, but I also

46:24um I like your suggestion uh Mayor Gali

46:27about um where are the places that are

46:31least popular

46:33and putting them there to be a treasure

46:35to find maybe encouraging people to you

46:37to go to these more underutilized areas

46:40um of recreation in town.

46:43I kind of like the principle. I don't

46:45know how well that'll

46:47that makes sense. What about that?

46:50>> Okay. I think that uh you do have three

46:53selected prominent locations there. So,

46:55I think that having when we come back uh

46:58staff will come back with a list of

47:00least prominent locations, those that we

47:02would, you know, inspire those to visit

47:04areas of town where they have not. So,

47:06we'll come back with that list and

47:08certainly maybe additional locations in

47:10Northwest Park as well.

47:18I love this conversation. One last thing

47:21made me think about um maybe popping

47:24them around to different shopping

47:25centers at some point too. Like one of

47:27them moves around town for different

47:30things. Maybe bring one to an event,

47:32things like that. They won't be ready

47:34for Smoresville, but definitely for

47:36something soon after that. Maybe.

47:39>> Since they're going to be bolted down,

47:41I'm assuming that you're going to have

47:42to have some type of pad everywhere you

47:45take. Right.

47:46>> That's true.

47:47Okay,

47:47>> that could be a way to do it, too. I'd

47:49like to recognize the town manager,

47:50please.

47:51>> Yeah, they they will be bolted down and

47:53on a pad, perhaps elevated. Um, so I

47:56think before we commit to too much

47:58mobility, we want to talk with public

48:00works and see what kind of commitment

48:02we're making and then we can certainly

48:03bring that back to you when it comes

48:05back.

48:06>> Yeah, they're pretty strong, but maybe

48:08not that strong.

48:10>> Well, I think it's just the question of

48:11how much is involved with pouring that

48:13pad. Do you have to pull the pad after

48:15you? I mean, there's there's factors

48:16that we just want to sort out. Make sure

48:17you're fully informed before we make a

48:19commitment to move something that maybe

48:22maybe not.

48:22>> If if I could just make a comment about

48:24the mobility, I think that where we

48:27install these should have a minimum of a

48:29year. If you're interested in having

48:32something here, something there, maybe

48:34we should have an icon on wheels that

48:37you could take to events, but I don't

48:39think once things are installed, they

48:41should be moved around. But maybe think

48:44about it in a different way of where can

48:46we have a mobile one and then that

48:49allows a lot more flexibility and public

48:51works will be happy and safety you know

48:55is a very important issue too so we can

48:58ensure safety

49:00>> and also another uh point is that you

49:02know this is our first round of

49:04installation so additional locations can

49:06be prioritized that we can uh look at

49:08for installation in the future

49:11>> and just

49:13And once the first five were installed,

49:16I'm quite sure that we'll hear from the

49:17public a lot more about where there

49:19should be others.

49:22>> Sure.

49:22>> And just one more comment on mobility is

49:25uh

49:27if we're going to have a pad, I'm I'm

49:31assuming that once we move it somewhere

49:34else that we would have to do something

49:37with the pad and not just otherwise it

49:39would look ugly, right? So we're going

49:41to have to something else there

49:44or we just leave it there or what do we

49:47do?

49:48>> Yeah, I don't like a pad in general. Um

49:51I think that's

49:52>> unnecessary. I mean the disc golf

49:54baskets are kind of bolted down

49:56somewhat.

49:57>> Yeah. So we just need to consider that.

49:59>> I think there's a a middle ground there.

50:04>> All right. Thank you all for that

50:06feedback. We'll move on to task number

50:08two for tonight, which is our design

50:10selection. So again, this is a super fun

50:13portion here. So uh let's see here. We

50:16will evaluate both the work samples as

50:18well uh that has been provided by each

50:20artist and also those will be indicative

50:24of their skill level. So we'll want to

50:26look at those closely first. Then we'll

50:28also review the proposals as well. And

50:30then following that you'll each be given

50:33uh five stickers, one with one, two,

50:36three, four, and five. And then you will

50:38circulate and rank them five being the

50:41highest. So that the five designs with

50:44the highest tally overall sum of points

50:47will be the five that will be installed.

51:13This is right there.

51:20>> Yes. Uh this is the information that we

51:21have before us. I wanted to go over it

51:23here at the table and then have an

51:25opportunity to walk around. So we have

51:28the top 10 designs that have been

51:30prioritized by Parks and Rex. So our

51:32first artist is Molly Choppin. She is

51:36local to Raleigh and all artists are

51:38local to North Carolina. So she is a

51:41painter and art educator and her artwork

51:44is her endeavor she endeavors to inspire

51:48uh love, healing and resiliency. Her

51:50work is also uh exhibited in galleries

51:54and and festivals all over the United

51:56States as well as internationally.

51:58She, if you'll look at her designs,

52:00you'll see that she has a strong sense

52:01of movement, texture, and also uh can

52:05be, you know, visually viewed from afar

52:07and up close because that's something

52:08that we'll want to uh evaluate as you're

52:11looking at the designs. So, this is her

52:14proposal here. Um, again, you'll see the

52:16sense of movement and that kind of

52:18contrast. And this is the front and that

52:22would be the kind of upward facing. And

52:24then the back, which is downward facing.

52:26I'm not going to spend a lot of time

52:27going over them because you all will

52:29look at them very closely, but just

52:31wanted to give you a little bit um of

52:33that. So, Molly's proposal again, the

52:35design reflects diversity, inclusivity,

52:37and also the creative spirit of

52:39Morrisville, and that is intended to

52:41uplift and inspire viewers.

52:46And I'll also note that these are in

52:48order um of the ranking for public that

52:51uh the Parks and Rights Board ranked.

52:53And the first three were all tied for

52:55first place. I'll also mention that as

52:57well. So our second artist is Sata

53:00Agaral. She is a resident of Morrisville

53:02and she has a passion for uh visual

53:04arts. Uh again she is the artist that

53:08completed the mural at MAFC. So we have

53:10an example of her work there. Uh these

53:12are also some examples that she has

53:14provided. Again, she has a strong detail

53:17oriented style, a very skilled execution

53:20and a strong usage of color and pattern

53:23as well, which is evident from her mural

53:26at MSC. This is her proposal. Uh this is

53:30of the columary

53:33uh that is the style and it is

53:36indigenous to India. the uh intricate

53:38flowers and the nature kind of depict

53:41the style that uh of depicts beauty,

53:44change and growth.

53:51So our third artist, again these were

53:54all three tied for first place. Uh this

53:56is Hassani uh a local artist to Kerry,

54:00North Carolina. Uh, Hassani is a student

54:03at UNCC Chapel Hill majoring in

54:05psychology and has done three large

54:07scale murals, two at Green Level High

54:10School. And you'll see uh their work

54:13samples. Uh, again,

54:15lots of great kind of painting

54:17technique, lots of blending, use of

54:19shadow and texture. So, you can see that

54:21and you'll be able to see that a little

54:22closely uh when you walk around and see

54:24the work samples adjacent to their

54:25offerings as well. So the proposal's

54:28artwork represents Morrisville and it's

54:30designed to showcase the four seasons

54:33that we experience through four flowers

54:35that are associated with North Carolina

54:37during all seasons. And this is the

54:41design. So again, this would be the

54:43front and the back. And that's labeled

54:44as if you walk around as well.

54:47Our

54:50fourth artist is Ruchi Ralph and this

54:54artist is native to Charlotte Charlotte,

54:57North Carolina. So Roocci is a mixed

55:00media artist. Her work is displayed in

55:03galleries in Charlotte. And again,

55:05you'll see that most of her examples are

55:07more of mixed media as well as some

55:09painting as well. Lots of good use of

55:12color and pattern. Uh certainly looking

55:15at lights beside darks to add that

55:18contrast. And again their proposal here

55:23represents uh these colors and vibrant

55:26uh patterns are representative of the

55:29growth, hope and community.

55:34Our next artist is uh Kelsey. her uh she

55:39has a good use of lights and darks again

55:42for contrast uh good blending techniques

55:45um shadow usage and light uh so those

55:48are some things highlighted in her work

55:49samples so that you can see those again

55:51if you're looking at the designs a

55:53little on her proposal the design seeks

55:56to invoke the comfort of community and

56:00so that viewers can see the are are

56:03filled with childlike wonder so again

56:05the design showcases several flowers

56:08that are native to Morrisville and

56:10commonly found around the town and near

56:12Lake Crackree.

56:16Our sixth artist is Cecilia Walker. She

56:19is a resident of Morrisville. She is

56:22experiments with lots of forms of art.

56:25You'll see some watercolor work as well

56:27as acrylics. um good again with lots of

56:31strong uh design details and diversity

56:34with uh texture as well as use of shadow

56:38um as well in her work. Uh you'll want

56:41to look at her design proposal here

56:44which she endeavors to showcase the

56:47179 different species of butterflies

56:49native to North Carolina. One thing as

56:51you're walking around and I think that

56:53you'll want to notice as you're here,

56:57try to imagine that these will be

56:59viewable from afar and up close. So keep

57:01that in mind. So as you're at the table,

57:04think about what you see when you're at

57:06the table versus how you experience it

57:08when you're close because that will be

57:09representative of how it will be in the

57:11built form as well.

57:13Our

57:15next artist is Kristen Owens who is

57:18local to Goldsboro. Her work

57:21exploration,

57:23connectivity, and relationship between

57:24people and nature. Uh her work is very

57:27symbolic and you'll see that she has a

57:29really good style of kind of bold

57:31colors, textures, and symbolism.

57:35So again this is her proposal and it is

57:38entitled rise together and it is uh

57:41designed to celebrate the beauty that

57:43emerges from different people ideas and

57:46cultures together and then the butterfly

57:48symbolizes transformation transformation

57:50hope and growth with one ring wing that

57:53has more cool colors and the other that

57:55has more of your warm colors and again

57:58these are representative of energy

58:00strength and new beginnings.

58:03Our

58:05eighth artist here is May. She is a

58:10multi-discipline artist and she is

58:13located in Durham, North Carolina. Her

58:16public art is centered around public

58:18engagement. And again, this is her

58:21proposal.

58:23Very experienced, very bold and rich

58:25color usage, lots of move movement and

58:28contrast. So that's something to keep in

58:29mind here. and her proposal is really

58:32designed to be vibrant, vibrant and

58:35flowing abstract forms that are outlined

58:38uh with gold and this creates a sense of

58:40movement and depth and connection.

58:46Our next artist is Kaji Doer who is

58:50local to Wendell, North Carolina. again

58:53a multi-disiplined artist who works with

58:56uh transforming memories into place and

58:59that is her style. Uh very strong usage

59:02of color, movement, shadow and contrast.

59:05You'll see in their work samples and

59:08going on to the proposal. So this design

59:12uses again bold color and floral imagery

59:14to celebrate the honeybee honeycomb

59:17patterns which you'll see here as well

59:19as bees that are and native grasses

59:22which are symbolic of the relationship

59:24between pollinators and the ecosystem

59:26that they sustain. The reverse side uh

59:29has a chrysantheinum which is uh a

59:32flower that is native. So uh that's a

59:34little on this design.

59:37And then lastly, we have Ivy Grace who

59:39is our last artist. These are some work

59:41samples which again you'll see very bold

59:44color usage, movement, texture, very

59:47easily understood uh from afar and all

59:51uh again uh very bold color uh again and

59:55so we'll go on to her design as well. So

59:58it is inspired by Indian culture, native

1:00:02patterns and representative of a folk

1:00:05art feeling. So the front of this one,

1:00:08the front and back are exactly alike. So

1:00:10that's a little bit on the designs here.

1:00:13So again, we are going to get up in a

1:00:15moment here. It is important that as you

1:00:17all are walking around one, look at the

1:00:20work samples, think about how they are

1:00:22able to execute those work samples

1:00:24because again that is indicative of how

1:00:26they will execute onto the the icon

1:00:29itself. And then the other thing again,

1:00:32think about how they appear from where

1:00:34you're seated. And then when you move

1:00:36closer because one we want them to be

1:00:38able to be uh understood in a way or at

1:00:42least colorful and vibrant from afar and

1:00:44then also when you're closer that there

1:00:46is detail that you are able to take in

1:00:48closely as well. Uh so that's something

1:00:50and then so I will go ahead and uh hand

1:00:53out your stickers again. Uh yeah I have

1:00:57a question here. I will hand out

1:00:58stickers um here in a moment as well.

1:01:01And so you will use the five that is

1:01:03your highest ranking and one being your

1:01:05least. So I'm going to answer question

1:01:08first and then we'll get up and

1:01:09circulate.

1:01:11>> So the first thing is we are going to

1:01:14have five unique butterflies and that's

1:01:17what we're voting at. Correct. It's not

1:01:19like all five are going to be the same.

1:01:22>> Yes. All five unique. And so you will be

1:01:26selecting five different designs.

1:01:28>> Okay. The other one's a little more

1:01:30sensitive question is um we have a

1:01:35fantastic mural at the MAFC and the

1:01:39artist is very talented but I see the

1:01:44icons as having opportunities for other

1:01:48artists to participate and there is the

1:01:50artists that did the MAFC mural did

1:01:53submit and beautiful designs but

1:01:57I I want to try to expand our, you know,

1:02:02artists that participate. So, everybody

1:02:06can vote how they want, but I just want

1:02:08to kind of bring that as an awareness

1:02:12that um if we want to um include

1:02:16additional artists, that might be a

1:02:18consideration towards your selection.

1:02:20>> Okay. And I'll also note that on the

1:02:22application, we didn't specify the

1:02:24artists could not resubmit. And so if

1:02:26that is something that we have a concern

1:02:28in the future as well, that can be

1:02:29something that can be specified,

1:02:31>> right? Yeah. I it's just for

1:02:33consideration. Thank you.

1:02:34>> Thank you.

1:02:36>> So Courtney, I have a question about

1:02:38this um

1:02:40option down here on the lower right.

1:02:43>> Yes.

1:02:44>> In the presentation you it showed a dark

1:02:47option and then this white option. So

1:02:49are you telling me that's the one we're

1:02:51voting on, not the darker option? I'm

1:02:53trying to figure out why there's a

1:02:55another option here on the presentation.

1:02:57>> Yes. So, the lighter option was

1:02:59preferred by parks and reccks and so

1:03:01that is the one that would be moving

1:03:02forward.

1:03:04>> Okay.

1:03:04>> Again, if this body chose to if that one

1:03:07is selected as one of the top five and

1:03:10you all want to consider the dark

1:03:12version, then that's something that we

1:03:13can do as well.

1:03:14>> Okay. Thank you.

1:03:16>> Um, of the 10 artists, how many of them

1:03:19are modest residents? I counted at least

1:03:22two.

1:03:24>> Let's see here.

1:03:27>> I think it was

1:03:32>> two Morrisville residents.

1:03:34>> And the one who did the mural at Morris

1:03:37Fitness Center. That's one of them.

1:03:40>> Yes.

1:03:40>> Okay.

1:03:44>> I had a question about the butterflies.

1:03:47I thought one the upward was dark and

1:03:50the other was light.

1:03:52>> No, it's the uh front and back.

1:03:56>> That That's what I mean. So, these are

1:03:58two white. I I thought the option was

1:04:01black on one side, white on the other

1:04:03side.

1:04:04>> No, it's not front and back white or

1:04:06front and back black.

1:04:08>> Now, I understand. Thank you.

1:04:13>> All right, I think that we're ready to

1:04:15circulate. I'm going to hand out the

1:04:19the stickers here and I will also be

1:04:21circulating so if there are additional

1:04:22questions but again uh five will be our

1:04:25highest vote

1:04:27>> five is best

1:04:29>> it's a weighted average

1:04:34>> yeah quick question was it communicated

1:04:38to the artists that um

1:04:43while there is a front and a back this

1:04:44is kind kind of a 3D piece of art where

1:04:47someone could walk all the way around

1:04:49it.

1:04:49>> Yes,

1:05:11>> high five.

1:05:21Thank you. You're welcome.

1:05:23>> So, okay.

1:06:06little wigs.

1:06:20Oh yeah. Yeah.

1:06:22>> Yeah.

1:07:12All the stickers.

1:07:24[snorts]

1:07:24Wait, you don't have

1:07:27>> Good luck reading all those numbers on

1:07:29the stickers. That's not coming up.

1:07:55people brought their own stickers.

1:07:57>> That's right.

1:08:20It's been interesting

1:08:23because there's numbers on the not just

1:08:27numbers on

1:08:38I didn't bother to

1:09:11isn't going to do it,

1:09:12>> right?

1:09:17>> I'll just let you keep that fantasy

1:09:19right here.

1:09:21At

1:09:21>> least put it in their top five, I guess.

1:09:25>> Put it in your top five.

1:10:0036 is a great number. 6* all the

1:10:03squares.

1:10:07T-shirt.

1:10:23We all come together.

1:10:25>> No, that's it. That was crossed out.

1:10:27>> Okay, I was looking close. Thank you.

1:10:38That's my piece.

1:12:04Let's see here. The five that have I'll

1:12:06be pointing to the five that have been

1:12:08selected and then the six that will be

1:12:09the

1:12:11[snorts] one has been selected.

1:12:13>> Hold on one second.

1:12:15>> Oh, I have it. I'm

1:12:19Okay. So, this one has been selected in

1:12:21the top five.

1:12:25Top five.

1:12:37Top five.

1:12:41Top five.

1:12:44And top five. Our ultimate

1:12:53is this.

1:12:57Can you please um give the name of the

1:12:59artist?

1:13:01>> Okay. So, our first artist is Potter

1:13:03Agal.

1:13:07Next would be Kelsey Ferrara.

1:13:15would be our third,

1:13:20Hassani would be our fourth,

1:13:23and Mali would be our fifth

1:13:26with Paji being our ultimate.

1:13:31Thank you all very much.

1:13:42I would just like to share that um I

1:13:44think Chopen

1:13:46some of her other work that was

1:13:48demonstrated. I would love to consider a

1:13:51way to enhance some of our storm water

1:13:54infrastructure like at Park Village, the

1:13:56raised sewers and things like that as

1:13:58were evidenced. I'm not sure what the

1:14:01next steps would be to start doing stuff

1:14:02like that around town, but Raleigh and

1:14:05other places um do things like that,

1:14:08especially in their downtown area,

1:14:09covering up unattractive utility boxes

1:14:12and stuff like that. I think that would

1:14:13be another really nice way to augment

1:14:16our art programs in some way.

1:14:20>> I'd like to recognize the town manager.

1:14:23So I think we can add that to the list

1:14:24but that would come after the icons

1:14:26likely in the next funding cycle when

1:14:28you would be discussing I think do we do

1:14:30additional mural mural murals do we do

1:14:33icons do we do something like that

1:14:37understood like I said it's about

1:14:39resources and timing and stuff like that

1:14:41so appreciate that um that clarification

1:14:47>> all right again just to sum up now that

1:14:49we have our designs selected thank you

1:14:51all very much for that staff will be

1:14:53back with additional locations.

1:14:58>> You don't need anything else from us at

1:15:00this time.

1:15:01>> Okay.

1:15:02>> Not at this time.

1:15:03>> So, it's 7 o'clock. I think it's good

1:15:04for us to just move right into the next

1:15:06one. So, at this time, we'll give uh

1:15:09Miss Johnson a moment to step away and

1:15:11we're going to ask Brett Martin and Ben

1:15:12Howell. Uh Brett is from town of

1:15:14Morrisville. Ben is from Campo, used to

1:15:17be from town of Morrisville to discuss

1:15:18Wake bus transit rapid transit western

1:15:22corridor extension update. If you guys

1:15:24gentlemen could please join us at the

1:15:26table.

1:15:42>> That's right. Yeah. Gosh, that gets me

1:15:45every time. Um, all right. Well, good

1:15:49evening, Mayor Collie and members of

1:15:50town council. Brett Martin here,

1:15:52transportation project manager with the

1:15:55town. And also joining us this evening

1:15:56is Ben Hal, who is the Wake Transit

1:15:58program manager with Capitol Area

1:16:00Metropolitan Planning Organization. And

1:16:03tonight we are bringing you an update on

1:16:05the planning work that has transpired

1:16:07over the past year or so to further

1:16:09develop the service concept and

1:16:11infrastructure needs for the wake bus

1:16:14rapid transit western corridor extension

1:16:17uh which is proposed to extend a core

1:16:20bus rapid transit service between

1:16:22downtown Raleigh and downtown Kerry

1:16:23westward through Morrisville to Research

1:16:27Triangle Park. And most recently, with

1:16:30active participation by the town uh by

1:16:33town staff and a small financial

1:16:34contribution from the town, Campo

1:16:36completed a concept of operations study

1:16:39that followed up on prior alternatives

1:16:41analysis work uh to better refine what

1:16:44the western extension would look like.

1:16:47And the Campo Executive Board will soon

1:16:51consider and lock in what is called a

1:16:53locally preferred alternative. You'll

1:16:54hear more about this later to carry

1:16:56forward for further development and

1:16:58implementation at its regular meeting in

1:17:01September. And so tonight we are going

1:17:04to cover

1:17:07uh we are going to cover some background

1:17:09for this project including some planning

1:17:11history and context what we have done

1:17:13over the past year or so uh with the

1:17:16concept of operations study and then we

1:17:18will take a bit we will talk a little

1:17:20bit more about the locally preferred

1:17:22alternative which will be on council's

1:17:24consent agenda for your August 11th

1:17:27meeting uh to consider adoption of a

1:17:30resolution to endorse the locally

1:17:31preferred alternative before it's

1:17:32considered by the Campo board. So really

1:17:35today um we'll walk through what you see

1:17:39on the screen. Um this is just

1:17:42anformational item. There aren't any

1:17:44decisions at this juncture in the

1:17:46planning process where town council

1:17:48needs to step in and and provide

1:17:50feedback and make and make a decision on

1:17:52anything. Uh while no specific feedback

1:17:55is being requested, you are encouraged

1:17:57to ask questions to better understand

1:17:58the proposed project. And we're also

1:18:01happy to take feedback that will be

1:18:03helpful for informing next steps as this

1:18:06moves into project development once a

1:18:08project sponsor takes over and and takes

1:18:11us into that stage. Um so just wanted to

1:18:14mention that. And so we'll just get into

1:18:17the background planning uh context and

1:18:19and the town of Morsville participation

1:18:21and what has been done. so far and of

1:18:24course you'll hear a little bit more

1:18:25about more town of Morrisville

1:18:27participation in later in the

1:18:28presentation but to set the stage for

1:18:31what we are talking about when we refer

1:18:33to the western bus rapid transit

1:18:34extension we're talking about there's a

1:18:37core western bus rapid transit corridor

1:18:41that was originally laid out in the 2027

1:18:43wake transit plan that was adopted back

1:18:45in late 2015

1:18:47uh which runs between downtown Raleigh

1:18:49and downtown Kerry and you see the

1:18:52routing for that, the locally preferred

1:18:53alternative for that was adopted several

1:18:56years ago actually. And so what you're

1:18:58seeing on the map there in that location

1:19:00is the locally preferred alternative for

1:19:01that and it is currently under

1:19:02development and design well on its way.

1:19:05Uh and then we're talking about when we

1:19:08talk about the Western BRT extension,

1:19:09we're talking about from downtown Kerry

1:19:11to research Triangle Park. And the line

1:19:13that you see on the map there is the

1:19:15recommended lowly preferred alternative.

1:19:17But it's not locked in yet because the

1:19:19campo board has to take action on it to

1:19:21lock it in. But uh what you see there is

1:19:23is that um so why are we spending money

1:19:28on this? Uh why why this investment?

1:19:31Well, BRT is really mostly it's all

1:19:35about speed enhancing and reliability

1:19:37enhancing infrastructure.

1:19:39We already have transit service between

1:19:41RTP and downtown Kerry. Uh the one fixed

1:19:45route service which is route 310 which

1:19:47comes through Morrisville pretty much

1:19:48stays on the east side of Morrisville.

1:19:51Um but really the reason is is that BRT

1:19:54provides reliable transit service and it

1:19:56would provide more reliable transit

1:19:58service between Kerry and Research

1:20:00Triangle Park by implementing that speed

1:20:02enhancing and reliability enhancing

1:20:04infrastructure to bypass congestion

1:20:06points and facilitate faster transit

1:20:08service. that is more competitive and

1:20:10improves the rider experience. Um, it

1:20:13also would accommodate existing and

1:20:15continued growth of the corridor's

1:20:16travel market and provide a competitive

1:20:18alternative mode to driving. Um, as

1:20:22western Wake County continues to

1:20:24develop, densify, there's going to be

1:20:26more trips. There's going to be more

1:20:28congestion, particularly on some of the

1:20:30roadways that we have that are hard to

1:20:32expand capacity, as you know. Um, and

1:20:35so, uh, as as we as we continue to grow

1:20:39and develop, this will become more

1:20:40important. I also wanted to note that

1:20:43the concept of the bus rapid transit

1:20:45between Raleigh and and RTP through

1:20:47Morrisville has been assumed and

1:20:50included in the regional transportation

1:20:52plans going back to 2018. Um, it was

1:20:55first included in the 2045 Campo

1:20:58Metropolitan Transportation Plan and was

1:21:00subsequently included in the 2050 and

1:21:032055 plans. 2055 plan was just adopted

1:21:06recently. Um, it's been included in the

1:21:102030 and 2035 Wake Transit plans as

1:21:13well, uh, which were completed in 2021

1:21:15and 2025, respectively. It's in the

1:21:19North Carolina statewide transportation

1:21:21improvement program with with

1:21:23construction funding programmed in 2030

1:21:25and it's been in there for a while. It

1:21:27was actually awarded that funding

1:21:28through the spot process. I can't

1:21:30remember if it was spot five or six, but

1:21:32one of those. And it's I will say it is

1:21:35not included in the town's comprehensive

1:21:37transportation plan currently that of

1:21:39course was adopted back in 2019, but it

1:21:42will certainly be in the new one, the

1:21:44updated one that uh the council will

1:21:47consider later this fall and and heading

1:21:49into the early winter. So, just wanted

1:21:52to provide that background there on with

1:21:55some of the planning and then um really

1:21:59going back to the 2021 2022 time frame

1:22:01following up from that kind of planning

1:22:04work that I laid out in partnership with

1:22:05local government jurisdictions that the

1:22:07BRT concept would rever would traverse.

1:22:10Campo carried out a major investment

1:22:12study for the corridor that assessed the

1:22:14existing and future conditions of the

1:22:16study area which included looking at the

1:22:18travel market, land use plans and other

1:22:20factors, evaluated a whole lot of

1:22:23different potential segments that could

1:22:25be used for the alignment of the

1:22:28corridor uh to develop a locally

1:22:30preferred alternative and then collected

1:22:32a lot of public and stakeholder feedback

1:22:34at that time. And then moving following

1:22:36up from that the concept of operation

1:22:37study which kicked off last year uh was

1:22:41really meant to refine and refine a lot

1:22:43of the technical details of what the MIS

1:22:46produced. Um so looked at things like

1:22:49trying to match it up really well with

1:22:51the core BRT corridor and the service

1:22:53planning for that. So that's what route

1:22:55interlining is really getting at. uh

1:22:57identifying a project sponsor operator.

1:23:00Looking at the appropriate service

1:23:01levels for the travel market and then

1:23:03what kind of fleet is needed and then

1:23:05also looking at station requirements

1:23:08other infrastructure requirements that

1:23:10are needed for speed enhancing

1:23:11infrastructure and confirming confirming

1:23:13the alignment stations and technology.

1:23:15There wasn't any uh public engagement

1:23:18that happened with that because it was a

1:23:21very technical exercise. Okay. And there

1:23:23was a whole lot of public and

1:23:24stakeholder feedback that was provided

1:23:26in the last phase which was the MIS. Now

1:23:29following up from that it will be

1:23:30heading into following Campo's

1:23:33consideration of the LPA design and

1:23:35engineering for each station and other

1:23:37investments and each Q jump and if

1:23:40there's ever if there's going to be any

1:23:42bus lanes or bus on shoulder that's used

1:23:44of course it would identify that as well

1:23:46and if there's any rideway acquisition

1:23:48or easement acquisition needed it would

1:23:50identify that. Um the town of Morsville

1:23:52participated in all of this very

1:23:54closely. Um on the core the town of

1:23:57Morsville staff participation was on

1:23:58they participated on the core technical

1:24:00team for this study for the MIS

1:24:02participated in the core technical team

1:24:04for the concept of operation study and

1:24:05of course it provides a partial funding

1:24:07contribution for the study. But I do

1:24:09want to note for the design and

1:24:11engineering and moving forward there is

1:24:13no town financial contribution necessary

1:24:16for project design or implementation for

1:24:18this. This is a project that it's not

1:24:21completely funded yet, but it pro it

1:24:23will be. Um, it's there's a few pieces

1:24:26left with it. Uh, so the town's not on

1:24:30the hook for anything here financially,

1:24:31but if if there's a desire to do town

1:24:33betterments, which we will I don't want

1:24:35to go down that rabbit hole tonight.

1:24:36There will be plenty of times where we

1:24:38come back to you and talk about the

1:24:40project, then of course you a financial

1:24:43contribution can be provided to do that.

1:24:44Okay? Okay. And it's similar to what we

1:24:46would do for an NC dot project um in the

1:24:49town. So now I'm going to turn over to

1:24:51Ben. He's going to walk us through the

1:24:52rest of this um and really kind of pick

1:24:55up with a little bit more on the MIS and

1:24:57then take us through the BRT concept of

1:24:59operation study that was just completed.

1:25:01I'm going to hand this over to him.

1:25:05>> All right.

1:25:07>> Thank you.

1:25:11>> All right.

1:25:13So the major investment study uh that

1:25:15was done back in 2021 through 2023

1:25:18consisted of three phases. BRT education

1:25:21and development of the evaluation

1:25:23framework, development and analysis of

1:25:25alternatives for each corridor and then

1:25:27presentation of findings and initial

1:25:29locally preferred alternative

1:25:30recommendations. The MIS uh began around

1:25:33May 2021 was completed and presented to

1:25:36the Wake Transit Tack and Campo boards

1:25:38in March of 2023.

1:25:45The MIS first divided the western

1:25:47corridor extension into segments

1:25:49identifying alignment alternatives for

1:25:50each segment and ultimately the

1:25:52corridors narrowed down to the three

1:25:54alignments shown on the screen and these

1:25:56alignments were then evaluated against

1:25:58the four criteria that are shown on the

1:26:00screen.

1:26:04After the evaluation, the alignment

1:26:06alternative 2 was selected in the MIS

1:26:09utilizing NC54 and Evans McCreman.

1:26:17And now um getting into the BRT

1:26:20extension concept of operation study

1:26:22that we just recently completed.

1:26:25The concept of operation study recently

1:26:27completed confirmed the locally

1:26:28preferred alternative from the MIS and

1:26:30developed detailed operating capital and

1:26:32funding implementation plans for the

1:26:34extension corridor. The CONOP study also

1:26:37developed updated BRT program design

1:26:40guidelines based on the work previously

1:26:41completed by Raleigh for the core BRT

1:26:43corridors.

1:26:49As for the design guidelines, city of

1:26:52Raleigh published draft BRT system

1:26:54standards in September 2021, primarily

1:26:57for their use at the time in designing

1:26:59the four core BRT corridors, Newburn,

1:27:01Southern, Western, and Northern. The

1:27:04components included standards for

1:27:05dedicated lanes, transit signal

1:27:07priority, frequent on-time service,

1:27:09offboard fair collection, enhanced

1:27:11station, specialized vehicles, and

1:27:13unique branding. And the document also

1:27:15included detailed standards for green

1:27:17stormwater infrastructure based on

1:27:19Raleigh standards and practices at the

1:27:21time. And so from the time Raleigh

1:27:24drafted and published those guidelines

1:27:26until we worked on them through this

1:27:28conops, they were just used for those

1:27:31core BRT corridors. But when we were

1:27:34scoping the con concept of operation

1:27:36study, we realized that we needed to

1:27:38update those standards. Um and

1:27:40ultimately we transitioned them to

1:27:42guidelines that could be used for

1:27:44development of any future BRT in Wake

1:27:47County under Wake under the Wake Transit

1:27:49Plan.

1:27:54So the guidelines include two BRT

1:27:56service types, urban BRT and arterial

1:27:58BRT. Urban BRT operates in at least 50%

1:28:02dedicated guideway with peak frequencies

1:28:04of 10 minutes, closely matching the

1:28:06requirements for federal uh capital

1:28:08investment grant funds. An arterial BRT

1:28:11generally operates in mixed traffic with

1:28:13pre peak frequencies of 15 to 30

1:28:15minutes, but both service types may

1:28:18include unique branding, specialized

1:28:19buses, and utilize transit signal

1:28:21priority and Q jumps.

1:28:26As you can see, the recommended

1:28:28frequency for arterial BRT may be up to

1:28:31twice or actually half that of urban

1:28:33BRT, 15 to 30 minutes versus 10 minutes

1:28:36in the peak hours

1:28:45and stations are proposed to have

1:28:46similar standards although flexibility

1:28:48is built in based on the type of vehicle

1:28:50used and land use context of the area.

1:28:53And that's the other thing I want to

1:28:54bring up too with these guidelines is

1:28:56and that's one of the reasons we rea we

1:28:58renamed them to guidelines is that we

1:29:00wanted to build in flexibility to really

1:29:03um be able to address the land use

1:29:05context of the areas that these BRTs are

1:29:08going in.

1:29:11And you see here station elements. Um

1:29:13again after a lot of discussion we ended

1:29:16up keeping the um station elements the

1:29:19same for both styles of BRT with

1:29:22flexibility depending on the context of

1:29:24whether um some of these uh elements may

1:29:28or may not be cons may or may not be

1:29:30able to be constructed in certain um

1:29:32stations. But generally speaking all the

1:29:35BRT stations should have a shelter with

1:29:37seating, trash and recycling

1:29:38receptacles, bike racks and lighting.

1:29:41And then we have recommended station

1:29:42elements below.

1:29:47Urban BRT is expected to use specialized

1:29:5060-foot buses with boarding doors on

1:29:52both sides while arterial BRT may use

1:29:55either standard 40ft buses or the

1:29:57specialized 60ft buses. And um you

1:30:00cannot believe the amount of

1:30:01conversation we had over buses and the

1:30:03different types of buses and whether 40

1:30:05foot buses are available with doors on

1:30:07both sides or one side and whether 40

1:30:09foot buses can do level boarding or not.

1:30:11Um but this is what we settled on for

1:30:14the guidelines.

1:30:18And then the biggest difference here uh

1:30:20for the intersection guideway treatments

1:30:22is that urban BRT is expected to have at

1:30:24least 50% dedicated guideway or bus

1:30:27lanes while arterial BRT will likely be

1:30:29completely in mixed traffic. Although

1:30:32where possible we would love to see

1:30:34arterial BRT have bus lanes.

1:30:39And then finally with the branding

1:30:41guidelines, the guidelines clarify that

1:30:43use of the Go Plus branding is generally

1:30:45reserved for Raleigh but may be used by

1:30:47other operators in coordination with

1:30:49Raleigh.

1:30:51One final note too I'll make on the

1:30:53guidelines is we talked a lot about the

1:30:56green stormwater infrastructure chapter

1:30:58that was in the standards and we

1:31:00ultimately ended up um I can't remember

1:31:02if we kept the kept it in or not but we

1:31:05loosened and added a lot more

1:31:07flexibility to that because the original

1:31:10um requirements and standards that were

1:31:12in there were solely based on Raleigh um

1:31:15Raleigh standards and their practices

1:31:17and they have found out through design

1:31:19and and beginning construction of the

1:31:21newborn BRT that some of those green

1:31:23storm water um infrastructure just does

1:31:26not work well with BRT.

1:31:30So next I'll review the scenarios that

1:31:33we um evaluated. So we evaluated four

1:31:37scenarios for the Western BRT extension.

1:31:39Two scenarios operated by Go Raleigh and

1:31:42two scenarios operated by Go Triangle Go

1:31:44Carry. We also considered two additional

1:31:47scenarios but um eliminated them early

1:31:49on due to either very being very similar

1:31:52to the other four scenarios or um for

1:31:55example the skip stop service just was

1:31:57going to be very very difficult to um

1:32:00plan and implement.

1:32:06During the development scenarios we um

1:32:09talked about and and considered four

1:32:11different station types. the core BRT

1:32:14stations that'll be developed as part of

1:32:16the western BRT project, the transit

1:32:19facility which is the Kerry multimodal

1:32:21center. Um and then the and then we for

1:32:24the extension itself, we looked at

1:32:26opening day stations and future infill

1:32:28stations. And as you can see on this

1:32:30next slide, um the western extension

1:32:34through Morsville only has one future

1:32:35infill station identified at this time

1:32:37and that would be Perimeter Park. Um and

1:32:40that we identified that as a future

1:32:42infill really to because it's dependent

1:32:44on future development in the area and

1:32:46other transit connections within

1:32:47perimeter park. As we started talking

1:32:50about stations, we um came to realize

1:32:54that the perimeter park station which

1:32:55was plant which is identified and has

1:32:58been identified out on Chapel Hill Road

1:33:00only serves a very small portion of that

1:33:02area. Um and so we decided to designate

1:33:06as future infill and see if there's um

1:33:09can be developed a future need for it

1:33:11with more connections into the park.

1:33:14>> Yeah.

1:33:15>> The other thing to mention about that is

1:33:18perimeter park where that would be in

1:33:20and wake tech are very very close

1:33:22together. Um which really kind of

1:33:25defeats the guidelines of the spacing

1:33:28that you would want to have for BRT.

1:33:30Keep in mind, the more stops you have on

1:33:32BRT, the more you're slowing it down.

1:33:34And so, it's a really, really delicate

1:33:37uh balance between access and speed um

1:33:40that you have to maintain. And um

1:33:43they're so close together, it's kind of

1:33:45like, well, if there's if there's a lot

1:33:47of demand at Perimeter Park or whatever

1:33:50demands at Perimeter Park now, it could

1:33:52very easily access that at Wake Tech.

1:33:54But if those conditions change such that

1:33:56perimeter park on its own would warrant

1:33:59such a such a future infill station,

1:34:01then that could be done. The the amount

1:34:04of access that we have to provide would

1:34:06have to be pretty significant for that

1:34:09to be done though. So thank you. You're

1:34:13welcome.

1:34:16So next we'll get into the actual

1:34:18evaluation of the scenarios. So the

1:34:21first goal used to evaluate the

1:34:22scenarios was access to destinations.

1:34:25How long it would take to travel on the

1:34:26service from different destinations. And

1:34:29as you can see on the screen there, the

1:34:30two go Raleigh operated scenarios had

1:34:32the shortest travel time um primarily

1:34:35due to not having to transfer between

1:34:37buses.

1:34:39But as you can see, we looked at um both

1:34:42midpoint travel points and then the

1:34:44entire corridor and just the extension

1:34:46itself. And so um for anyone once this

1:34:50is in operation, if anyone wants to come

1:34:52from Clayton all the way up to RTP, it

1:34:54would take about 134 minutes on the bus.

1:35:01Next, we evaluated the scenarios on

1:35:03access to transit services, specifically

1:35:06looking at transfer and wait times for

1:35:07each scenario. The last two scenarios

1:35:10include a transfer time due to switching

1:35:12buses, while the two goaly operating

1:35:14scenarios have no transfer time.

1:35:20And the um I realize that there the

1:35:22legend wasn't isn't on these slides, but

1:35:25there is a um legend for the little

1:35:28arrow and circle symbols. It was on the

1:35:30previous slide, but um the up arrow and

1:35:33it's rel and we scored the scenarios

1:35:37relative to each other. So the up arrow

1:35:40means that a scenario is is considered a

1:35:42little bit better compared to the

1:35:44others. Circle means it's neutral

1:35:46compared to others and then down arrow

1:35:47means it's a lower um score than the

1:35:50others.

1:35:56Then we evaluated the scenarios against

1:35:58the goal of productive and sustainable

1:35:59service. We evaluated this using

1:36:01operating cost and capital costs per

1:36:03ride. This slide here shows the

1:36:05estimated operating cost per rider for

1:36:07each scenario based on the operator's

1:36:09operating cost per hour and the number

1:36:11of hours that the extension service

1:36:12would operate. And so as you can see

1:36:14there um the scenario one is a higher

1:36:19cost than scenario two primarily because

1:36:22it would be every single extend every

1:36:24single BRT bus would be continuing on so

1:36:27it's more hours whereas scenario two um

1:36:30is the lowest cost scenario and then

1:36:34scenario three is again higher cost

1:36:36because go triangle has a higher cost

1:36:39per hour and then scenario four is a

1:36:41little bit lower due to the fact that go

1:36:43carry has a lower cost per hour, but

1:36:45then you have to build in that they have

1:36:47additional buses. You they'd have to

1:36:49purchase additional buses and it would

1:36:51have a lower ridership.

1:36:56This slot shows capital cost per rider

1:36:58and the primary variable here is the

1:37:00cost of the buses both in number and

1:37:02type. So as you can see here, scenario

1:37:04one, go Raleigh would have to purchase

1:37:06additional 60ft buses which are more

1:37:08expensive.

1:37:10um in scenario one and two, scenario

1:37:12one, they would have to purchase um more

1:37:15than in scenario two. And then in

1:37:18scenarios three and four, both those

1:37:20agencies would have to purchase

1:37:21additional 40 foot buses.

1:37:26Finally, we also looked at qualitative

1:37:29operational concerns under this goal.

1:37:31location and capacity of operations and

1:37:33maintenance facilities, whether the

1:37:34vehicles could allow for level boarding

1:37:36or not, layover and turnaround

1:37:38challenges, and reliable reliability

1:37:40challenges.

1:37:43So um and as you can see here the the

1:37:47dead head distance of the nearest

1:37:48terminus um is the same for scenarios

1:37:52one and two because it's going back to

1:37:53go raleigh station whereas um in

1:37:56scenarios three and four it would have

1:37:57to go to either Kerry multimmoal center

1:38:00or up by RTP. Um and then the for this

1:38:05particular extension, the facility

1:38:07location was not as big of a

1:38:09determinant. Um on the southern

1:38:11extension, it was much bigger because it

1:38:13the southern extension is further away

1:38:15from all the bus operations maintenance

1:38:17facilities. And then um we'll I'll talk

1:38:20a little bit more about root length

1:38:22reliability in a later slide. But um as

1:38:25you can see with 60footers, we believe

1:38:27level boarding is possible and we'll

1:38:29certainly aim for that. With um

1:38:32scenarios three and four and utilizing

1:38:3340 foot buses, it's a lot more difficult

1:38:35for level boarding.

1:38:43Okay. Um the last goal used to evaluate

1:38:46the scenarios was safety and

1:38:47compatibility with surrounding

1:38:48environment. This was evaluated by

1:38:51looking at land use types and densities

1:38:53in the area in 2035 and 2055 and

1:38:56comparing that to the level land use

1:38:58density could support. So as you can see

1:39:00here in 2035 the density in this area

1:39:03would support 15 to 30 minute service

1:39:06and by 2055 we do believe that full 10

1:39:09to 15 minute BRT service could be

1:39:11supported. Um, and the that was one of

1:39:14the other considerations we had as we

1:39:16were reviewing and evaluating these

1:39:18scenarios is that with scenario two, it

1:39:22would be very easy to go from scenario

1:39:25two to scenario one where every bus

1:39:27serves the entire way from downtown

1:39:30Raleigh all the way out to RTP. Whereas,

1:39:32if we went with scenarios three or four,

1:39:34it would be a much more difficult um it

1:39:37would be much more difficult to do. And

1:39:39so we do fully believe that opening day

1:39:43we'll probably be operating at the at

1:39:45the 15 to 30 minute service, but we

1:39:47could you could see um the higher level

1:39:51true BRT service here within a few years

1:39:53after opening depending on wrership.

1:40:02There we go. Uh, in summary, scenario 2

1:40:06performed the best on all the evaluation

1:40:08criteria and goals as you can see on

1:40:10this screen.

1:40:14Um so speaking about the reliability

1:40:16trade-offs um we did look at that

1:40:19through the study and um we determined

1:40:22that scenario 2 was still the best

1:40:24option for for providing the most

1:40:25service and meeting goals of Wake

1:40:27Transit in this area, Wake County with

1:40:30the understand that understanding that

1:40:32with it being a longer route, it does um

1:40:35it does per it does open up some

1:40:37potential reliability concerns um such

1:40:40as if something happens to one the to a

1:40:42us as it's on the further end of the

1:40:44route towards RTP. Um but you know there

1:40:47are things that there are ways that they

1:40:49can um Raleigh as the project sponsor

1:40:52will be able to set up their operations

1:40:54to sort of hopefully plan plan for that

1:40:56and and avoid that um chance that risk

1:41:00as much as possible.

1:41:06The recommended service scenario um is

1:41:09again approximately 20 minute frequency

1:41:12during the weekday peak hours dropping

1:41:14to 30 to 40 minute frequencies and off

1:41:17peak hours and weekends. Similar span to

1:41:20the similar service span to the western

1:41:21BRT route. Um it may and it may open on

1:41:26opening day. It may um either start a

1:41:29little bit later or end a little bit

1:41:30earlier than the core BRT route, but

1:41:32it'll it's very similar in the total

1:41:34number of hours. And then the um

1:41:37extension will utilize transit signal

1:41:39priority and Q jumps to ensure

1:41:41reliability and travel time.

1:41:46So, as you can see on this map here,

1:41:49every other western BRT bus will

1:41:50continue western carried to serve the

1:41:52extension. And we do expect that that

1:41:54will likely replace go triangle 310. And

1:41:57the map above um shows the proposed

1:42:00station locations that have been

1:42:02identified through the MIS and the

1:42:03concept of operations study.

1:42:10Then this map shows the intersections

1:42:12where transit signal priority and Q

1:42:15jumps are recommended. All the

1:42:16signalized intersections are recommended

1:42:18to have transit signal priority and 18

1:42:21intersections are recommended to have Q

1:42:22jumps. As part of the concept operation

1:42:25study, when it came to Q jumps, we

1:42:28analyzed intersections um and

1:42:31recommended Q jumps to be constructed

1:42:32intersections that had supporting

1:42:34infrastructure such as um already wide

1:42:37paved shoulders on either side of the

1:42:39intersection where they could be

1:42:41constructed um at a lower cost and more

1:42:44quickly. So we we did actually go

1:42:46through an exercise through the study

1:42:48for each of the um intersections when

1:42:51we're looking at Q jumps to to determine

1:42:53whether it was a low cost Q jump, medium

1:42:56cost Q jump or high cost Q jump. And we

1:42:58are only recommending the Q jumps at um

1:43:01low or medium cost.

1:43:04>> That Q jump is where on either side of

1:43:08an intersection there will be an extra

1:43:09essentially an extra lane that allows

1:43:11the bus to pull. It would be a bus only

1:43:13lane. So it would allow them to pull

1:43:15beside traffic and then the light

1:43:17through transit signal priority would

1:43:18generally turn green a few seconds ahead

1:43:20of the rest of the traffic allowing them

1:43:22to pass all the traffic stopped at the

1:43:25light and get back into the regular flow

1:43:27of traffic.

1:43:34So as you can see on this slide annual

1:43:36operating costs of both the core and

1:43:37extension service altogether expected to

1:43:40be about $9.4 4 million and require a

1:43:43total of 14 60 ft articulated buses. The

1:43:46capital cost is estimated to be $62.1

1:43:49million. Um, but we did note that there

1:43:52are several bus and road infrastructure

1:43:54projects may affect the final design

1:43:57such as the triangle mobility hub that

1:43:59Go Triangle is currently working on, the

1:44:00downtown Kerry multimmoal center, and

1:44:03then the road construction around

1:44:04McCreman Parkway and NC54 with the

1:44:07overpass and the widening.

1:44:16my mouse doesn't like me. Um, so and

1:44:19service could be open as early as 2032,

1:44:21but that is dependent on um, as Brett

1:44:24said, you know, we have to fill a

1:44:26funding gap. And then we also um it's

1:44:28dependent on the go Raleigh staff

1:44:30availability on their BRT team and the

1:44:32progress on the western BRT because this

1:44:35extension will not o will not and should

1:44:37not open before the western BRT itself

1:44:40is open.

1:44:46And then um finally just a slide on

1:44:48coordination local investments. Um so

1:44:51again we're you know from the campo side

1:44:54from the wake transit program um we want

1:44:56to see Garner Clayton Carrie Morseville

1:44:58RTP prioritizing pedestrian biking

1:45:00connections to the future BRT stations

1:45:04um also ensuring the local transit

1:45:06services uh should be well coordinated

1:45:09and with the proposed BRT service and

1:45:11stations and then um you know potential

1:45:14for new local transit services that

1:45:16could expand the reach of the BRT in

1:45:18Clayton and Garner and in here in uh

1:45:21Morrisville around Perimeter Park. And

1:45:24then um we're, you know, we'll obviously

1:45:27be closely coordinating with Morrisville

1:45:29staff and Brett to track future projects

1:45:31and developments. Um transit oriented

1:45:34development planning for municipality

1:45:36should continue to take the plan. BRT

1:45:38stations into consideration. And then um

1:45:41we should continue to you know ensure

1:45:43that we coordinate and that that your

1:45:45staff coordinate with NC do on roadway

1:45:48projects and expansion.

1:45:56And then the locally preferred

1:45:58alternative

1:46:01um is shown here and it's um similar to

1:46:03the previous maps you've seen just

1:46:05without the stations. Um, but this is

1:46:08the locally preferred alternative map

1:46:09that will be considered by the Campo

1:46:11Executive Board in September. And again,

1:46:13while we've identified potential

1:46:14stations, the liquid preferred

1:46:16alternative action is only approving the

1:46:19mode BRT alignment and termin.

1:46:30The um locally preferred alternative or

1:46:33LPA adoption is required by Campo for

1:46:36regionally significant projects. And um

1:46:39we are as Brett said the you are

1:46:42expected to take action on an

1:46:44endorsement on um potential endorsement

1:46:47on August 11th. Campo will open a public

1:46:50comment period um on the LPA on August

1:46:5317th and that'll run through September

1:46:5515th. We'll have a TCC presentation

1:46:58consideration on September 3rd and the

1:47:00executive board public hearing and

1:47:02consideration on September 16th. And

1:47:04then following the adoption, um we will

1:47:07officially hand the reigns over to the

1:47:08city of Raleigh and they will become the

1:47:10project sponsor and we'll manage the

1:47:12future phases for design, engineering,

1:47:14and rightaway and construction.

1:47:19And then um just a couple notes on

1:47:21implementation. So, as Brett said, we

1:47:23have funding in the adopted step for

1:47:25hund00 million, but it's for the entire

1:47:27corridor from RTP to Clayton. We've

1:47:30identified about $20 million for this

1:47:32particular section. Wake Transit has

1:47:35programmed approximately $18 million as

1:47:38well. So, we currently have a capital

1:47:40funding gap of approximately $24

1:47:42million. Um the step funding is is going

1:47:46to be available as early as 2030,

1:47:48possibly even a little bit earlier. Um

1:47:50with Wake Transit funding available as

1:47:52early as FY27.

1:47:54Um sorry, ST funding available in 2030,

1:47:58wake trans funding available in FY27,

1:48:00but a lot of that is still dependent on

1:48:03the funding is there, but when the work

1:48:05starts is going to be dependent on the

1:48:06city of Raleigh. They're still working

1:48:08through the agreement process with NC

1:48:10DOT as well as staffing up their BRT

1:48:13team. Um, and then town involvement

1:48:16moving forward. Um, of course you'll

1:48:18have coordination with Raleigh on sign

1:48:19and sharing phases, provide input as

1:48:21necessary as station location design

1:48:24gets underway. Um, help manage manage

1:48:27any required permitting for stations or

1:48:29infrastructure. And then as we get

1:48:31closer to actually getting the service

1:48:32in operation, hopefully the town will

1:48:34help with marketing.

1:48:38And with that, I'm happy to answer any

1:48:40questions you may have.

1:48:46I have a mix of questions and comments.

1:48:50So, first of all, this very

1:48:52comprehensive scoring and analysis done.

1:48:55I would expect nothing less from you,

1:48:57Ben. So, um, appreciate that. With that

1:49:03said, um I am very disappointed that

1:49:06option three is not the selected or

1:49:09recommended option because I feel like

1:49:12just looking at the map with the way the

1:49:14option two is,

1:49:16it goes around Morrisville, it does not

1:49:20include any residential areas.

1:49:25perimeter park which was an office park

1:49:28intended um to have a lot of business

1:49:33areas is not planned to be activated day

1:49:37one. Um we have done a lot of work on

1:49:41along Mcrimman. So it's nice to see that

1:49:44there is some mcrimin activity with

1:49:47weight competition center. Um

1:49:50but

1:49:52it it seems like it's bringing people

1:49:55from out of Morrisville through to RTP

1:49:59instead of benefiting the Morrisville

1:50:01population. So although the

1:50:05recommendation is not option three,

1:50:07which I think would benefit the

1:50:09residents and businesses of Morrisville

1:50:11the most, we don't have to pay for

1:50:14something that might not benefit the

1:50:16town as much directly for its residents.

1:50:21Um I I think about access for people

1:50:26that live in Morrisville. A lot of

1:50:29traffic is from out of the area into the

1:50:33Morrisville and it will the bus rapid

1:50:37transit

1:50:39reduce that traffic.

1:50:42The analysis says possibly but for

1:50:46Morrisville residents, we will still

1:50:49have to get in a car at this point. Our

1:50:52Morrisville shuttle does not service the

1:50:55areas where the bus rapid transit stops

1:50:58are today. We also have an ondemand

1:51:02uh scenario. So someone wanting to take

1:51:05a routed bus may or may not be able to

1:51:10take that on a regular basis to go to

1:51:12work like to Raleigh because you might

1:51:16not be able to get the shuttle when you

1:51:18want to get the shuttle. So Morrisville

1:51:21has

1:51:23some discussion about what that shuttle

1:51:27needs to be because we need to get

1:51:30people

1:51:31up to this route somehow so they can

1:51:35take advantage of it because today they

1:51:36can't that we don't really have the

1:51:39stops that intersect. Maybe Park West

1:51:42Village is about the only one that I see

1:51:44on this list.

1:51:46It concerns me that

1:51:50Morrisville doesn't have more of a

1:51:54connection through our town instead of

1:51:56outside of the town. I I I know that you

1:51:59move buses more efficiently when you go

1:52:01around Morrisville because we do have a

1:52:03railroad,

1:52:04but our our residents need to access

1:52:09this and it's just going to be very

1:52:12cumbersome and the costs of, you know,

1:52:16Go Triangle and Go Carry. Why why are

1:52:21aren't Go Carry and Go Triangle talking

1:52:23more together to try to make this even

1:52:26more integrated? Because this is a

1:52:29really great concept with the bus rapid

1:52:32transit, but I see a lot of barriers

1:52:35with the different systems and the

1:52:38Morsville shuttle just adds icing on the

1:52:40cake to that. Um, I'd like to know more

1:52:44about park and ride lots.

1:52:48If we're going to have bus rapid transit

1:52:51and we don't have the buses coming

1:52:54through the town.

1:52:57We're going to use our cars to go park

1:53:01to get on a bus so we don't have to ride

1:53:03to downtown Raleigh. So, we need not

1:53:07just the shuttle coordinated, but we

1:53:09need park and ride lots and that's real

1:53:12estate that's very expensive.

1:53:14Um,

1:53:16so

1:53:18to summarize. I really prefer option

1:53:21three. Um

1:53:23the morsville shuttle needs to be re

1:53:26considered as to prioritization and

1:53:29where the stops are. I want perimeter

1:53:31park to have a stop if we can. Um,

1:53:35and I think that

1:53:40we need to really understand more about

1:53:44why we're not,

1:53:47you know, including more of Morrisville

1:53:49instead of just the outskirts. Thanks.

1:53:55>> If if I can, just a couple of notes on

1:53:58that. um one the um that alternative

1:54:03three alignment using Davis Drive was

1:54:05screened out in the initial MIS. So um

1:54:08that was a decision that was made four

1:54:10or five years ago for one. Um but with

1:54:13that said, the other thing I did want to

1:54:15say is that there is another BRT planned

1:54:19and identified for that Davis Drive

1:54:22corridor that would run from Apex all

1:54:24the way up to RTP along that Davis Drive

1:54:26corridor. and we do anticipate that to

1:54:29be um in a MIS and studied here probably

1:54:33in the next two to three years.

1:54:36>> That's that's helpful. Thank you.

1:54:37>> Yeah, just to add to that um that'll be

1:54:41the BRT on Davis though will be pretty

1:54:44long term.

1:54:45>> It will be past 2032.

1:54:47>> But the right now

1:54:50I guess I don't know the news and notes

1:54:52have gone out yet, but but right now the

1:54:54wake bus plan is being prepared, right?

1:54:56is being developed 2035 and that is

1:54:59looking at bus fixed route bus services

1:55:01throughout the county and concepts for

1:55:03new routes, route realignments, route

1:55:06redesigns and a couple of routes are in

1:55:09there uh that would traverse

1:55:11Morrisville. One is Davis Drive oriented

1:55:14route um from High House and um well

1:55:19pretty much Davis and High House on up

1:55:21to the regional transit center. Okay.

1:55:24And there's another one that would be

1:55:26more more east west oriented that would

1:55:28be from Park West Village and it would

1:55:30kind of zigzag up to Parkside Town

1:55:33Commons. So, um we don't have fixed

1:55:37route service on Davis Drive now,

1:55:40>> but we we we've been through that,

1:55:42right? We need it. We want it,

1:55:44>> right?

1:55:44>> We're I'm trying to rahrh that. Um and

1:55:48you really really need that before you

1:55:50can do BRT because it's really really

1:55:52hard to just be like, "Oh, yeah. we're

1:55:53just going to do BRT and you haven't

1:55:55done any seating of the market. You

1:55:56haven't done any evaluation of where

1:55:58people really want to get on and and

1:56:00where they're going and origins and

1:56:01destinations. So, we really need to get

1:56:03that fixed route service going first. Um

1:56:07and then it can build up from there to

1:56:08BRT. Um I'll also say with smart with

1:56:11the smart shuttle uh stops um we

1:56:15actually do have a lot of collocation

1:56:18already with of smart shuttle stops

1:56:20where these vert station locations are

1:56:23proposed.

1:56:25One that we don't is Walmart, you know,

1:56:28in Shiloh Glenn, which later in the

1:56:30summer into the early fall, you'll hear

1:56:32more about our new prioritization and

1:56:34and selection for our expansion. But,

1:56:37you know, Perimeter Park, Wake Tech, we

1:56:40have it um uh competition center, um

1:56:45Park West Village. So they're

1:56:47colllocated quite a bit, but I can

1:56:49pretty much assure you that

1:56:53when the BRT is built and it's

1:56:55operational, we are totally going to

1:56:57make a recommendation that we have nodes

1:57:00at those locations as well. There's no

1:57:01reason not to. I mean, why would you

1:57:03even part well so much of our writership

1:57:06now is is all about getting to other

1:57:10services, other fixed route services,

1:57:12right? whether it's go carry or go

1:57:13triangle that's that's not going to

1:57:15change uh with BRT it's actually going

1:57:17to become more important with BRT so

1:57:20just wanted to wanted to note that

1:57:22>> very good I appreciate the update about

1:57:25the Apex route because that could help

1:57:30balance out you know the Davis Drive

1:57:33avenue because eventually Davis Drive I

1:57:36believe is going to be six lanes but

1:57:37right now it's currently four

1:57:40so I I think that's like 2050. But

1:57:44[laughter]

1:57:44>> well, the CTP recommendation right now

1:57:48is six lanes, but the the sixth lane or

1:57:51the third lane on each side is a bus

1:57:53lane.

1:57:54>> Okay.

1:57:54>> Not a regular open to traffic lane.

1:57:56>> Well, that's helpful. Thank you. And one

1:57:59more thing I was just going to say, um,

1:58:02if it makes you feel any better, you're

1:58:03not, you know, Clayton also mentioned,

1:58:05you know, Clayton staff had brought up

1:58:06some of the similar concerns and what we

1:58:09told them and what we talked through is,

1:58:12you know, again, this is stepping back

1:58:13several years back to the MIS, but when

1:58:15the MIS was originally done for this

1:58:18project for both the extensions, the

1:58:21purpose really of this BRT was it was

1:58:24not to provide the local service. it was

1:58:27more to provide that that um regional

1:58:30trans regional travel shed regional

1:58:33travel market. So I I understand your

1:58:36concerns, but the purpose of this BRT

1:58:38extension really was not to provide loc

1:58:40a lot of local service in Morsville. It

1:58:42was it was really meant to be able to

1:58:43get people from downtown Kerry to RTP or

1:58:46from downtown Raleigh to RTP um and not

1:58:49necessarily make a lot of stops or serve

1:58:52a large portion of Morrisville. And so

1:58:54that that went into some that was went

1:58:56into why it was routed the way it was.

1:58:59>> Understood. Thank you.

1:59:07>> Okay, I'm up next. So I think I'm up

1:59:10next. Um, so I am going to echo

1:59:13everything Vicki just said. So, uh,

1:59:15Council Member Scrog and Johnson is 100%

1:59:18correct. Um,

1:59:20I'm sorry, Ben. I'm gonna I You're

1:59:23You're the messenger. I get it.

1:59:25[laughter] You too, Brett. You're the

1:59:26messenger. But I am deeply disappointed,

1:59:29too. And I will tell you what I'm really

1:59:32disappointed in more than anything

1:59:34because you were clear, Brett, at the

1:59:36beginning. You said there's no input

1:59:38here. You're not looking for input from

1:59:40this council. This is a here you are. Um

1:59:44and I also heard that um the campa board

1:59:47has to vote. I get that. But, you know,

1:59:50I we all know how that works. So, um I I

1:59:55guess what I'm really again echoing

1:59:57everything Vicki just said, um what I'm

2:00:00really disappointed in is that there is

2:00:03a resolution here that is asking for our

2:00:05endorsement. I can't endorse this. Um if

2:00:08there was if there was even some uh um

2:00:16um some residential aspect to this where

2:00:21our residents benefited to some degree.

2:00:25I I might be able to support a

2:00:27resolution of endorsement, but there's

2:00:30not. Um, and I I um

2:00:34I what I would prefer is we send a

2:00:37letter to say we can endorse this and

2:00:39here's the reasons why. Um, and come

2:00:41back in 20 or 30 years when you're ready

2:00:44for Davis Drive and maybe that future

2:00:46council will will endorse endorse the

2:00:48next um plan. But this one um I I can't

2:00:53do that. Um and um so this can't be on

2:00:57consent if we're even thinking about um

2:01:00endorsing in a resolution um because I

2:01:03will definitely be a no. And that pains

2:01:06me because I have been a huge um transit

2:01:09supporter here in Wake County and I have

2:01:12um I have been supportive of commuter

2:01:15rail and everything we've called it. I

2:01:17have been supportive of BRT, but there

2:01:19needs to be a benefit to our residents

2:01:21and there's not.

2:01:23And I understand. I hear everything

2:01:25you're saying, Ben. I hear you. But I'm

2:01:27representing the residents of

2:01:28Morrisville. And so, um, for me to tell

2:01:31them I endorse this when there's no

2:01:33benefit to them. And I agree. I I I I

2:01:36hear that there's no financial, um,

2:01:39there's no ask of us. Our residents are

2:01:43paying. Our residents are paying for all

2:01:46of this. Um, and yet they are not

2:01:48getting benefit. And so um you know

2:01:52there's not an additional ask right now

2:01:54but we are all paying. So um

2:01:58and yes we have these smart shuttle

2:02:01connections. I hear you Brett. Um we're

2:02:04going to overlap with these station

2:02:06locations but the reality is our

2:02:10residents are not going to take a

2:02:11shuttle bus to go over to Perimeter Park

2:02:14or Wake Tech or Mccrimin airport and

2:02:18then get on another bus. they're gonna

2:02:19get in their car and drive because it's

2:02:21going to be a heck of a lot faster. Same

2:02:23with Clayton. I mean, to think that

2:02:25somebody's going to take a bus from

2:02:26Clayton for two hours, two hours plus,

2:02:29they're going to get in their car.

2:02:31Although, I know they have different

2:02:32they have a different I know that that

2:02:35part of the county has um huge

2:02:37congestion compared to us. Um huge. And

2:02:40maybe that is quicker for them in the

2:02:42end. I don't know. But um so um I'm I'm

2:02:46disappointed. Again, I know you you're

2:02:49the bearer. You're you're you're you're

2:02:51the messenger. But um I've got to stand

2:02:54up for our residents, too, that are

2:02:56paying

2:02:58their their money. They're they're being

2:03:00taxed now, and that's the money that's

2:03:02being used to fund this project. So,

2:03:05>> I will defend Ben.

2:03:08He did not put together that resolution.

2:03:10>> Yeah, we're mad at that.

2:03:11>> I did. [laughter]

2:03:12I put it together. It is very customary

2:03:15for

2:03:17when a Metropolitan Planning

2:03:19Organization is going to take action on

2:03:22a locally preferred alternative for some

2:03:24signal of endorsement for that to be

2:03:27made by the governing bodies of the

2:03:28impacted jurisdictions. It happens all

2:03:31throughout the country. It's a

2:03:32riskmanagement technique. Um well, I

2:03:34don't know if I want to call it a

2:03:35technique, but it is part part of a risk

2:03:38management program. It's okay if you

2:03:41don't want to support it because that

2:03:44also sends a message. I mean supporting

2:03:47the the resolution or adopting the

2:03:49resolution of endorsement sends a

2:03:50message but also not doing that sends a

2:03:54message as well. So um you know that was

2:03:58that was me. I wrote it. I put it

2:04:00together. Um and it was my idea. Um it's

2:04:05very accustomed for that to have to

2:04:06happen though. Um

2:04:09but you know whatever your message is

2:04:11will be conveyed to

2:04:14camp

2:04:15TCC executive board. Um and that's we'll

2:04:20just take that forward.

2:04:21>> Thank you. Appreciate it.

2:04:27>> Can we go back to

2:04:29>> Can we go back to slide seven, please?

2:04:33>> Slide seven.

2:04:34>> Yes.

2:04:36way back.

2:04:37>> That was

2:04:39a click.

2:04:40>> Yeah, now the mouse works.

2:04:42>> It likes going backwards and I don't

2:04:43like going forwards.

2:04:45>> So, um

2:04:48I had actually I was looking at slide

2:04:51four. We don't have to go there, but I

2:04:53was looking at slide four and I was

2:04:54looking at the dots on the map.

2:04:56Actually, let's go to slide four.

2:05:00I was looking at slide four and I was

2:05:02seeing where um you know, all of these

2:05:04amenities were. uh the um parks,

2:05:08recreation, the shopping, grocery, the

2:05:10medical facility, EMS. And I do see uh

2:05:14kind of echoing uh council member Scott

2:05:16Johnson and council member uh Johnson

2:05:18here. Um and I looking at this map, I

2:05:22was thinking, man, it'd be really nice

2:05:24if uh we had the bus rapid transit along

2:05:26Davis Drive. And I thought of a route

2:05:31to go um we can go back to slide seven.

2:05:35Um, but I'm I I'm curious to see that uh

2:05:38this was not one of the options listed.

2:05:41Um, to go from NC54 to Morrisville

2:05:45Parkway to Davis to McCreman Parkway and

2:05:49then to NC54.

2:05:56>> I can look at

2:05:58>> Yeah. So, right.

2:06:02>> They're not entertaining that. That's

2:06:04the Yeah,

2:06:04>> they're not entertaining that

2:06:07>> way beyond that.

2:06:08>> What you see is what you get.

2:06:09>> Yes,

2:06:10>> this is a regional effort.

2:06:13>> There's a lot of other decisions and

2:06:15others that have contributed to this

2:06:16that have a vote,

2:06:18>> right? That contributed this. There's

2:06:19also technical data that has to be used

2:06:22to,

2:06:24you know, determine like that points to

2:06:26here's your travel market, here's your

2:06:27who you're serving and where you need to

2:06:29be. Um, I totally get all of these

2:06:32concerns, but nothing can change with

2:06:35with [clears throat] the the alignment.

2:06:36This is a decision that was made, I

2:06:39mean, shoot, back in 2022.

2:06:42>> Yeah.

2:06:42>> Um, and every and and part of the reason

2:06:45why transportation projects may not get

2:06:47done or they're they can be problematic

2:06:49is because there's a lot of, well, we

2:06:51want this or we decisions are made and

2:06:53then, oh, no, we want to go back. Oh,

2:06:55no, we want to go back. And that's

2:06:58that's a huge risk to projects and I

2:07:01don't think it's a risk that the powers

2:07:03that be at the regional level are

2:07:04willing to entertain.

2:07:05>> So what I'm curious about is what

2:07:07contributed to

2:07:11an alignment not along not from Davis

2:07:14Drive to NC54 along Mcrimman Parkway.

2:07:18Why was that not considered?

2:07:22So, we have the um all of the different

2:07:25alignments that were You didn't get that

2:07:27slide. We have all kinds of other slides

2:07:29here.

2:07:30>> I originally gave Brett a 86 slide

2:07:32presentation. He didn't think y'all

2:07:33would quite

2:07:34>> No, thank you. Thank [laughter] you.

2:07:37>> But there it looks like there is Yeah,

2:07:40that sort of

2:07:43that sort of alignment. At least there

2:07:45was a segment in here that did that

2:07:47>> where it came in from Morrisville and

2:07:49then it went along.

2:07:51multiple options.

2:07:53>> I mean, there's

2:07:53>> multiple

2:07:55>> all of these that were laid out. There

2:07:56was a phase one of all the potential

2:07:59segments and then they were phased out

2:08:02from there.

2:08:05[laughter]

2:08:06>> I um I I'm going to take a look at this.

2:08:08Um

2:08:10the little dash yellow lines on here

2:08:12were those options.

2:08:15>> That's my understanding.

2:08:17>> That's my understanding.

2:08:18>> Okay.

2:08:19Um, yeah,

2:08:20>> I was. Yeah,

2:08:22>> that was also four years [laughter] ago.

2:08:24>> Yes.

2:08:24>> Yeah.

2:08:25>> So, Ben and I actually traded places. I

2:08:27did the MIS and he did the I used to

2:08:29work at camp. He has my old job at camp.

2:08:31>> So,

2:08:32>> you guys did that.

2:08:34>> Brett started the MIS. I was

2:08:35representing I started representing

2:08:36Morsville on the MIS and I went to

2:08:38Clayton representing Clayton on the MIS

2:08:40and then Brett left Campo and the MIS

2:08:43got finished up and

2:08:45>> now we're here.

2:08:47history [laughter]

2:08:52>> for our residents.

2:08:54>> So, um

2:08:56it's a shame that we don't have it going

2:08:58up Davis Drive. Um I like hearing that

2:09:01there's going to be a a future bus rapid

2:09:04transit um from Apex to um RTP along

2:09:08Davis Drive. That's going to um take a

2:09:10while. But you did say that um you don't

2:09:13put bus rapid transit where you don't

2:09:15have fixed route service currently. You

2:09:18don't um add that on. So the question is

2:09:21what would it take to get fixed route up

2:09:23Davis Drive?

2:09:26>> Uh it would need to be included in the

2:09:282035 wake bus plan.

2:09:32Um that is underway right now. it

2:09:35actually there the first phase of public

2:09:37engagement is open right now until

2:09:39midepptember

2:09:41um

2:09:43in news and notes actually I put a whole

2:09:45blurb in there on it so you can look for

2:09:47that when that goes out I guess that

2:09:48goes out tomorrow where you you there's

2:09:51a survey you can go in and look at the

2:09:53different route concepts but there's

2:09:56there is a fixed route concept on Davis

2:09:58Drive from High House up to the regional

2:10:01transit center

2:10:03>> is it um kosher for us to um

2:10:12share that survey with our residents.

2:10:14>> Oh, absolutely.

2:10:16>> As as staff share.

2:10:18>> Yeah. I mean, we we're going to put it

2:10:20we're putting it in news and notes or if

2:10:21we put it in news and notes, we're

2:10:22putting it in next week in Morrisville.

2:10:24>> We're trying to get it out as well.

2:10:26>> Um

2:10:27>> we have printed materials coming to you,

2:10:30too.

2:10:30>> Yeah. Yeah. We want we want you to send

2:10:32it out to have get as much participation

2:10:35as possible.

2:10:37>> Um,

2:10:41and I know that this is a lot tied to

2:10:43land use and I'm sure that to get fixed

2:10:47route on Davis Drive sooner rather than

2:10:49later, it would have to have a higher

2:10:50density. So the oxymoron that I'm seeing

2:10:55here I'm thinking about is for there to

2:10:58be a benefit to our residents, can it be

2:11:01stated that Davis Drive would have to

2:11:03increase significantly in density

2:11:09>> for

2:11:11you mean to be right for BRT investment

2:11:13for a BRT like investment

2:11:16>> both BRT and fixed drop? I mean, my

2:11:20opinion is is right for fixed route

2:11:22investment today.

2:11:23>> Today,

2:11:24>> that's my opinion. It's been my opinion.

2:11:26Um, I think town of Kerry has the same

2:11:30opinion.

2:11:31Maybe even the town of Apex. I don't

2:11:33know. But, you know, we are dealing in

2:11:34an environment where there's only so

2:11:37many resources. Um, and it's a whole lot

2:11:40more resources than we had 10 years ago,

2:11:43right?

2:11:43transit tax. We're bringing in $160

2:11:46million a year, but there's still a lot

2:11:48of resources left to be able to program

2:11:51out a lot of improvements. But when

2:11:53you're with when you're dealing with a

2:11:54financially constrained environment, and

2:11:56Wake County right now particularly has a

2:11:58lot of big expensive projects that

2:12:00they're trying to get they're actually

2:12:01trying to get done within the next few

2:12:03years.

2:12:05You know, it eats away at that. Um but

2:12:08yeah, yeah, I think it's been ready for

2:12:11that.

2:12:13um

2:12:15what would be the effect of us saying no

2:12:20>> or we're saying you know we don't

2:12:22endorse the resolution.

2:12:26>> There's uh my opinion and I can let

2:12:28[laughter]

2:12:29Ben speak. I mean, I I certainly think

2:12:31it would send a message and there would

2:12:33be a desire to follow up on the why, but

2:12:37I also think and there would be there

2:12:40would be concern, but I also think

2:12:42following up on the why or why not for

2:12:46alternative three,

2:12:48that question, I think the thinking is

2:12:51that question's probably already been

2:12:52answered and there's a lot of good

2:12:56reasons for that.

2:12:58um mainly because again it's a regional

2:13:02it's a regional investment rather than a

2:13:04local investment

2:13:05>> right

2:13:09>> I don't know if you have anything to add

2:13:11>> the only thing I would say is at the end

2:13:13of the day the you know the LPA

2:13:15designations is a it is a job and duty

2:13:19of the NPO and um I think from the NPO

2:13:22standpoint we have to look at every the

2:13:25entirety of the you know corridor and

2:13:27not us how one municipality feels.

2:13:30>> Um, with that said, like Brett said, I

2:13:32think there would be a lot of concern.

2:13:34We would certainly be reaching out and,

2:13:36you know, want to find out more. But,

2:13:38um, you know, alternatives at this point

2:13:41are, you know, if the LPA doesn't get

2:13:43adopted, then the project stops.

2:13:47>> It'll get adopted. It won't matter.

2:13:50>> That's what that's what is so sad to me

2:13:52in all of this. It won't matter,

2:13:54>> right? It's about the vote. It's not

2:13:56about

2:13:58Um, I will have an additional additional

2:14:01comment later, I think, but I want to

2:14:03hear everybody else's first.

2:14:08>> So, I'll be short and sweet because I

2:14:11the vibe is you're not you're not

2:14:13seeking my opinion or my input. I I mean

2:14:16this in the in the nicest way possible.

2:14:18You're not. Right.

2:14:19>> Right.

2:14:20>> Okay. I agree with everything Liz said.

2:14:22I wouldn't vote for it either and I

2:14:23don't want it on the consent agenda and

2:14:28Yeah, looking forward to when you come

2:14:30back with good news about Davis Drive.

2:14:32It's always nice to see you though, Ben.

2:14:34[laughter]

2:14:35>> I will ask, can we can we put it on the

2:14:37agenda and if you're gonna if it's if

2:14:39it's going to get voted down, I'd rather

2:14:42that be a thing than not, right? Like

2:14:45give your opinion as a council on it,

2:14:48right? Like

2:14:49>> it should not be on consent.

2:14:50>> Yeah, but we can take Yeah, take it

2:14:51offent.

2:14:52>> Yeah, that's what I said. I don't want

2:14:53no consent.

2:14:56It should be on the agenda. Yes.

2:14:58>> So I I would agree with that. I think

2:15:00also you you could I mean you're

2:15:02discussing this in an open session

2:15:04tonight. Um this can you know Campo I

2:15:06assume might want to watch this at some

2:15:08point and hear this feedback. So I think

2:15:10you could you know either let it be on

2:15:13the agenda for further discussion

2:15:14although respect I think you're you're

2:15:16having that discussion now. I think you

2:15:18could also direct staff not to bring it

2:15:21back for consideration for endorsement.

2:15:23You can you can do either way.

2:15:26>> We are missing sorry we are missing one

2:15:29council member that might want to

2:15:31express. So that's the reason we

2:15:33>> possibly put it on August 11.

2:15:35>> Just options.

2:15:36>> I I appreciate that. Thank you.

2:15:49>> So if we said no.

2:15:52>> Thank you.

2:15:53So if we say no, what happens to the the

2:15:56plan staff that you have on this page 23

2:16:01which says point of station locations?

2:16:03So basically it stops.

2:16:05>> No,

2:16:06>> no, it'll go forward.

2:16:08>> It'll go forward anyway.

2:16:09>> That's the reality. That's the reality.

2:16:12>> Okay.

2:16:13I will say I mean unless you know if

2:16:16Mayor Collie is your executive board

2:16:18member brings up the concern and the

2:16:21rest of the executive board agrees that

2:16:23you know with and wants to support

2:16:27Morrisville's concerns, the executive

2:16:29board could decide not to adopt the LPA.

2:16:31So I would I would not say it's not

2:16:33necessar it's necessarily definitively

2:16:36going to be passed but um I mean we have

2:16:39had the we have had it happen in the

2:16:42past on different things um I think you

2:16:44know years ago with 540 and the around

2:16:47Garner you know the executive board

2:16:50stopped that in its tracks for a little

2:16:51while um because Garner had serious

2:16:54concerns so it's it's not a it's not a

2:16:57for sure thing if if the if Morrisville

2:17:01represent presresentatives on the TCC

2:17:02and executive board bring up the

2:17:03concerns that the executive board will

2:17:06still, you know, just still vote in

2:17:09favor of it.

2:17:10>> Thank you, Ben. Thank you. I

2:17:12>> mean, so I agree with my colleagues

2:17:14concerns, but even if we have a route

2:17:18through Davis Drive, uh we're still

2:17:21going to have two two of the three

2:17:23largest neighborhoods in Morrisville,

2:17:25Pride Space and Kids Creek are on Church

2:17:27Street.

2:17:29Whether the stops are on Davis Drive or

2:17:32Chapel Hill, it won't make much of a

2:17:34difference to to those residents.

2:17:36They're still going to drive. Doesn't

2:17:38matter where the stops are.

2:17:41So, I mean that's is coming. So uh uh if

2:17:45they even if we I don't think that's

2:17:48going to happen but even if there is an

2:17:50agreement to add daily route to the

2:17:53route we're still not going to satisfy

2:17:57most of majority of the residents.

2:18:05>> Um oh grab this one. Um I just wanted to

2:18:09make a a quick comment. I think one of

2:18:11the reasons why um scenarios one and two

2:18:16um were looked at closely originally was

2:18:18because of the to site um and when you

2:18:21look at um other plans um that is

2:18:25designated as a transit hub um and

2:18:28station. So just want to know the

2:18:30correlation there

2:18:33and that future stop.

2:18:39>> I will also say you know there's a whole

2:18:41lot of different things that can happen

2:18:42if you say no um and how far it's taken.

2:18:46Um, I do think one risk that you run is

2:18:51Campo does take very seriously when a

2:18:54the governing body of a municipality

2:18:55that's impacted by such an invest in

2:18:57investment is not in favor of it. But I

2:19:02also think they may look at it as are

2:19:04you not in favor of the investment or do

2:19:06you just want it somewhere else and is

2:19:09this and between not having the

2:19:10investment and having the investment

2:19:12would you still support it? I think

2:19:15that's what you might want to think

2:19:17about because it the money that's

2:19:21allocated for this could totally be

2:19:22taken and put somewhere else

2:19:24>> right on other on other corridors that

2:19:27are part of that bigger alignment all

2:19:29the way from RTP to Clayton. So one of

2:19:32the risks that you could run is you just

2:19:34don't get anything anywhere.

2:19:37So I'd be care I would be careful with

2:19:39that.

2:19:39>> Thank you.

2:19:40>> That's what I was going that at least we

2:19:41have something right now. So,

2:19:48>> is it my turn?

2:19:50>> Let me just add one more comment that I

2:19:53I lived in Philadelphia when I went to

2:19:57college and I used to take bus and

2:19:59subway and train and even in cities like

2:20:02Philadelphia, I had to walk or I didn't

2:20:07have cars, so I had to walk mile to get

2:20:10to the bus stop. So, this is not unique

2:20:12problem to just us right you the public

2:20:17transportation is not going to be able

2:20:19to serve every resident

2:20:25>> if I can real quick just to echo

2:20:27Michelle's comment and you know again

2:20:30we're looking back in time to 2021 2022

2:20:332023 but that was you know that was a

2:20:37big reason why um the alternatives one

2:20:40and two and and alternative two was

2:20:41chosen

2:20:42was because of the TOD planning that

2:20:45Morrisville had. You know, Morsville has

2:20:48been planning for that to for since

2:20:52Yeah. 2010, 2008. So, um, you know, that

2:20:56was a big, you know, that was a big

2:20:58reason why I I do believe that that

2:21:01Michelle's right that that's probably

2:21:02one of the big reasons why that

2:21:04alternative three did get screened out

2:21:06is that it did not service this large

2:21:08TOD. And for a long time that the

2:21:11thought, you know, when we had commuter

2:21:12rail, there was going to be a large

2:21:14commuter rail lot, a parking lot there

2:21:16and and it was going to have a lot of

2:21:18synergy. The commuter rail may not be

2:21:20here now, but there's still

2:21:21opportunities to really have some some

2:21:24substantial to development if you can

2:21:26say that you you have you have BRT

2:21:28service there. So, just something to

2:21:30think about. I also think if you go back

2:21:32to when we talked about the alternative

2:21:34transit study and I talked about the

2:21:35circuitous of route the circuitousness

2:21:37of certain routing and how you lose

2:21:40ridership because it's no longer

2:21:42competitive there's no you know travel

2:21:43time takes them long that's also if I'm

2:21:45remembering back to the MIS that was

2:21:47also a concern with that Davis drive

2:21:49alignment because you're going the the

2:21:51travel market is really between RTP and

2:21:54Kerry or RTP and Raleigh and you're kind

2:21:55of going way out here and then up here

2:21:58you know a little bit particularly for

2:22:01something that's a BRT investment that's

2:22:03supposed to have really really sharp

2:22:05directness of travel. Otherwise, you're

2:22:07defeating the purpose of BRT in some

2:22:09regards.

2:22:10>> Express.

2:22:10>> Yes. So, that's part of it, too.

2:22:16>> Go up 54. That would be

2:22:19bigger a better express.

2:22:24So, and that's a great caveat or um

2:22:28segue because 54 is two lanes and that's

2:22:32not an express in any case.

2:22:33>> It's already part of it's already two

2:22:35lanes.

2:22:36>> Exactly. This alternative already does

2:22:38two lanes on 54.

2:22:40>> Right. So, we're kind of skipping that

2:22:41chunk in the middle to essentially

2:22:43create the frequency and the speed that

2:22:47brings you from one place to the other.

2:22:49So if you look at it going over to Evans

2:22:52and up Crimin it's kind of like just the

2:22:54mirror of Davis but Mccrim extension

2:22:59what we paid for is actually got a bus

2:23:01lane there now it's rare that there's so

2:23:04much traffic that you wouldn't have a

2:23:06dedicated bus lane there Davis will

2:23:08never be that case until we actually

2:23:09have six lanes on Davis. So the future

2:23:13when that is when those two bus lanes

2:23:15are there then that's the correct time

2:23:17to do that because this is a

2:23:20pointto-point this is really Raleigh to

2:23:22carry to RTP this isn't designed

2:23:25necessarily to be a local for our

2:23:28residents this is designed to take those

2:23:32other cars off our roads. So that is the

2:23:36benefit because we were all around well

2:23:38we were around when Mark Stman was our

2:23:40representative to the way county transit

2:23:42plan and the big thing about that plan

2:23:45is that even if people aren't on the

2:23:47buses they benefit because some people

2:23:50are on the buses so we're taking the

2:23:52cars off the roads so the main benefit

2:23:54for us is getting those non Morrisville

2:23:57residents and commuters off our roads so

2:24:01I understand your

2:24:03everyone's opinion actually that this

2:24:05doesn't really benefit us directly and

2:24:09it might not benefit me but it does

2:24:12benefit me in so far as I can get to

2:24:14where I want to go in Morrisville in a

2:24:16car faster because I don't have everyone

2:24:18else clogging our roads which are

2:24:22everyone's roads. So in that way it this

2:24:24is a regional solution and it's not

2:24:27ideal in some ways but the fact that we

2:24:30built Mcrimman extension makes that the

2:24:35BRT's

2:24:37dream because there are essentially

2:24:40dedicated bus lanes so people get

2:24:41through there faster. If they're going

2:24:42to go up 54 that's really slow. Davis

2:24:46probably nearly as slow um because it at

2:24:49least has two lanes so we could do

2:24:50something there. maybe some jump lanes,

2:24:52but I just want to say that I hear

2:24:55everything you said. Um,

2:24:58but looking at the regional lens,

2:25:01this will help us. Um, and it is our tax

2:25:04dollars, the way county transit plan,

2:25:06this is our money, and it it helps, but

2:25:09just not as directly as we would all

2:25:11like. So, I will vote whichever way you

2:25:14all want. I think writing a letter would

2:25:17be good, whatever you want. I think we

2:25:19should definitely think about writing a

2:25:21letter about the Davis Drive fixed route

2:25:24because that's a shorter term solution

2:25:25that helps us and gets us that BRT

2:25:28later. Um, but you guys all make great

2:25:31points and I just want to share the

2:25:33perspective from long-term regional

2:25:35planning. Um,

2:25:39from be even before when I was on the

2:25:40campo board.

2:25:43I think we'll Michelle Steel, our

2:25:46planning director.

2:25:48Thank you. I It's not like we're

2:25:49bringing this back. Um, it will likely

2:25:52be voted down. Um, but I did want to

2:25:55encourage,

2:25:57you know, we've been talking about this

2:25:58as being a regional system. It's not

2:26:00necessarily designed for computers. Um,

2:26:04but they will be a large user of this

2:26:07type of system. So, it's also designed

2:26:09around large employment centers and

2:26:11mccrimin is going to be a large

2:26:14employment center for Morsville. So by

2:26:17coming down your prim, you're going to

2:26:19be hitting a lot of the new industries

2:26:21that are being constructed in that area,

2:26:23which will provide more opportunities

2:26:26for people live that live in other

2:26:27communities to commute and transfer in

2:26:30and get to those jobs quickly. And then

2:26:32again, right after that, you're getting

2:26:34um the TOD before you head up and make a

2:26:36turn and start heading towards arts and

2:26:38beaches. So just wanted to keep that

2:26:40commuter um component in mind as well

2:26:42given that this is more of a regional um

2:26:46system.

2:26:54I I just want one comment that you know

2:26:58if you really think about the

2:27:03the big city transit system, we are a

2:27:06suburb of Raleigh and if you go to any

2:27:10metropolitan city and suburban areas

2:27:15probably people travel at least as much

2:27:17as we would end up traveling if we

2:27:20If we voted yes for this for that reason

2:27:24I'll probably vote yes

2:27:27>> quite understand

2:27:30>> so if you compare uh this transit plan

2:27:33to any metropolitan

2:27:36cities uh transit system

2:27:40uh suburban areas of big cities

2:27:44uh they have similar issue people living

2:27:46in suburbs don't have direct access

2:27:50buses and the transportation centers

2:27:53they have to drive right and doesn't

2:27:56matter.

2:28:02>> Oh, I was at the end I was gonna mention

2:28:06a letter the letter about the Davis

2:28:10Drive fixed route and ultimate

2:28:13condition of BRT. um if if I should do

2:28:17something with that, but there's more

2:28:19comments to be made. So,

2:28:22>> yes. Um

2:28:27I think one of the downsides of Davis

2:28:29Drive fixed route, especially if it's

2:28:31going RGP to um Apex, is that it

2:28:34wouldn't go to Raleigh. Don't know

2:28:36necessarily what you do about that. um

2:28:38be nice if it did,

2:28:41but uh I like the idea of a letter,

2:28:43writing a letter. Um I also wanted to

2:28:47echo Mayor TJ's comment about less

2:28:50people on the road as well as the

2:28:52benefit to um not only some current

2:28:55residents that are living um along this

2:28:58route um uh but also the future

2:29:00residents that we could get um you know

2:29:03with the other uh multif family that is

2:29:06developing in that area. Um, and I think

2:29:09it makes um, echoing Mayor TJ's comment

2:29:13um, even louder. What I'll wrap up with.

2:29:17Um, so I'm I'm I'm a strong yes. Um,

2:29:24just I'm a strong yes because I think we

2:29:26need it and you know, I know it's not

2:29:29ideal for us. um uh 100% ideal for us,

2:29:34but you know, I think that's us voting

2:29:35on everything where there's not

2:29:38agreement, right? Um but I think it's a

2:29:42it's a good regional um regional thing.

2:29:45And I was trying to think of an analogy

2:29:49for what I'm about to say. I've not come

2:29:51up with a good one, but I think of this

2:29:54is a land use issue. you know, we have

2:29:57land use that is a little bit hard to to

2:30:00to manage. Um, some of that um certainly

2:30:05is from uh

2:30:08development that has happened to the

2:30:10town um but also some maybe some

2:30:13decisions that have been made in um in

2:30:18the past. Um, and so I feel that uh kind

2:30:22of like a a child sticking their finger

2:30:25on a cactus or something uh similar to

2:30:29that. It's like, ow. Like, well, don't

2:30:32do that. Um, like I said, it wasn't a

2:30:35good analogy. But are there land use

2:30:37decisions that we're making in

2:30:39Morrisville that

2:30:42have been in the past that doesn't make

2:30:44the Davis Drive feasible? That wouldn't

2:30:46have made the Davis Davis Drive that

2:30:48that doesn't make the DAS drive

2:30:50feasible. Now, were there land use

2:30:51decisions that could have been made

2:30:54along um along the way such as um you

2:30:57know what I know that most residents

2:31:00don't like apartments and density and

2:31:02whatnot, but if you had that in the

2:31:06along Davis Drive,

2:31:09would we have the fixed route serving

2:31:11along that? And that's one of the

2:31:13downsides or that's that's the

2:31:15trade-off, right? if you want to have

2:31:17this type of um transportation, this

2:31:19type of mobility, then having some of

2:31:22that additional density in that area,

2:31:23which ideally came with commercial

2:31:25activity as well. Um so that's kind of

2:31:29the the the message of sending the no

2:31:31vote, I feel, is

2:31:35it's like no, we don't like it. It's

2:31:38like, okay, well, you've um this is how

2:31:42you've built Morrisville, and so this is

2:31:45the only option that makes sense for

2:31:47Morrisville.

2:31:49That's my um thinking

2:31:53at the moment.

2:31:58So is it accurate that if we had more a

2:32:03higher intensity on DT drive we would

2:32:05have had better chances of getting that

2:32:08route.

2:32:10So, so maybe yes because what um

2:32:14whenever the bus planning

2:32:18started after the weight transit plan

2:32:19was adopted, the first thing that we

2:32:22jumped to was a market analysis of where

2:32:25do we have a need here? What's where

2:32:28what travel markets are out there that

2:32:29need to be served? So, it's possible.

2:32:31Yes. And back then, Davis Drive has

2:32:33exploded since then. I mean, it really

2:32:35has. If you go 10 years ago, Davis Drive

2:32:37looks very different now. Um, so yeah, I

2:32:40mean based on market analysis back then

2:32:42that could have contributed to that. Um,

2:32:46and maybe having higher density land

2:32:48uses which would be higher sugar

2:32:51generating um, origins and destinations

2:32:54would have would have would have changed

2:32:57that. But

2:33:00there's another factor out there which

2:33:02has been affected for the past several

2:33:04years which is Raleigh first. Okay. And

2:33:08I'm not complaining. That's every the

2:33:12you know, every major city that has a a

2:33:15large transit system or transit network.

2:33:18The the real

2:33:20need is in the higher density areas in

2:33:23the core of the the central city. Okay.

2:33:26So Raleigh first was a big part of, you

2:33:29know, coming out of the way transit

2:33:30planning with bus planning and

2:33:31allocating resources. Um, but Raleigh's

2:33:34pretty they're in really good shape now

2:33:37in terms of being they I mean I know

2:33:39there's some more things that they need

2:33:40to do, but they're pretty built out with

2:33:42their fixed route transit system and

2:33:44it's doing really really well. Um, and

2:33:47so now it's kind of like well what else

2:33:49is there out in the suburban areas that

2:33:52is right for this type of investment? So

2:33:55I think some of it's been Raleigh first

2:33:57and some of it's just been

2:33:59the the market data has not registered

2:34:03yet because 10 years ago when bus

2:34:06planning first started with the weight

2:34:08transit plan it was very different but

2:34:10now we know that it is and one of the

2:34:12arguments that I've made Ben's heard it

2:34:16with the weight with the wake bus plan

2:34:17is there's only one route and well it's

2:34:23only just come back on NC55 that serves

2:34:27western a north south pattern in western

2:34:29Wake County which is route 311 and it's

2:34:32it's oriented on to NC55 because it it's

2:34:36more of an express type of service. It's

2:34:38a go triangle route. Um

2:34:41and the fact that Davis Drive doesn't

2:34:43have anything but NC55 does kills me.

2:34:48[laughter]

2:34:48It really does. It kills me. It's like

2:34:50what? But part of that's because Davis

2:34:53Drive is slower. It comes down to it

2:34:56comes down to actually run cutting for

2:34:57the service with buses. It's slower. So

2:35:00it takes more buses which takes more

2:35:02investment and and you know it's more

2:35:04expensive to run. NC55 is a lot faster

2:35:08and you can spread out the access points

2:35:10more um on NC55. So that's a little bit

2:35:14of

2:35:16>> but the comparison to like Davy's drive

2:35:19route versus the current route. Um

2:35:24does this route have higher density than

2:35:25Davy's drive?

2:35:28>> But I'm sorry

2:35:30>> the the current proposed route does it

2:35:32have higher density than Davis Drive?

2:35:34>> No,

2:35:35>> it does. So, so that's why I asked the

2:35:37question that if if the if we had higher

2:35:40density in Davies drive it would it make

2:35:43a difference because it it looks like

2:35:45it's

2:35:45>> not for the BRT. Probably not

2:35:47>> for BRT. It's not

2:35:48>> not for the BRT.

2:35:49>> Could Could you suggest that discussions

2:35:51of what might or might not make a

2:35:52difference on Davis Drive? I we're

2:35:55really wandering from the point. I I I

2:35:58really want to just get us back on task,

2:36:01which is the current proposal and

2:36:04whether or not we support it. And can I

2:36:06suggest that we table other discussions

2:36:09for other meetings when they're more

2:36:11relevant?

2:36:11>> I mean, we're discussing so I'm just

2:36:13adding my comment. I Yes, everybody

2:36:15wants to get done early. I actually have

2:36:17to go to work after this. So, we can

2:36:19stop. Thank you.

2:36:22So I just have a but to that point it's

2:36:25the density of commercial development

2:36:27that is ideal for why this loops the way

2:36:31it does. So it it does to Michelle's

2:36:34point to everyone's point the route

2:36:38serves as a destination but it still is

2:36:41not benefiting our residents. So I am

2:36:44still a hard no in this resolution if

2:36:46we're going to vote on a resolution.

2:36:48That's why I brought up the option. I

2:36:50would much prefer not to vote on a

2:36:52resolution. I would much prefer to put

2:36:55our thoughts in a letter and send a

2:36:57letter explaining

2:36:59how we feel. And um but that that that's

2:37:03me. Um and then let just one thing and I

2:37:08I hear this idea that it will take cars

2:37:11off the road. I've used that argument

2:37:13before myself, but I'm looking at your

2:37:15slide 25 where we talk about the time

2:37:19it's going to take to get from one

2:37:21location to another. And again, I'm a

2:37:24pragmatic. I I like to be pragmatic. I'm

2:37:27I I I'm a realist. Um the reality is it

2:37:31is still going to be faster to drive

2:37:33your car to get where you want to go.

2:37:37the only those that like Harrison that

2:37:40are truly invested are going to take

2:37:42more than an hour to take a bus or those

2:37:46that don't have a vehicle are going to

2:37:48take a bus for an hour. Everyone else is

2:37:50going to get in their car. So,

2:37:53and again, I I would prefer that we we

2:37:56send a letter quite frankly with our

2:37:58thoughts, but that again is only me.

2:38:04>> That's me too.

2:38:07I like the letter idea.

2:38:14>> I'm in favor of the letter and voting.

2:38:16Yes.

2:38:18>> So, let me ask this. Um,

2:38:20>> can I just say one thing?

2:38:22>> Oh, sure. If

2:38:23>> we could um have staff take a look back

2:38:25at our discussions in 2021 and 22. um

2:38:28because we we looked at these routes

2:38:31alto together and I think we ended up

2:38:34with the mcrimman we chose it as a

2:38:38group. Um so it's kind of make the an

2:38:42analogy I would use is there's a lot of

2:38:44people that don't like airport boulevard

2:38:45now but we're going forward with it for

2:38:48lots of different reasons. Um this is

2:38:51similar in that way. we made decisions

2:38:52back then as you mentioned if you change

2:38:54routes you lose funding you lose

2:38:56credibility as a planning body so I

2:39:00think that would help us to sort of

2:39:01understand that we as a group back then

2:39:05did that if we did I think we did but

2:39:07I'd love for staff to sort of dig in on

2:39:10that a little bit

2:39:11>> thank you sir

2:39:12>> yeah I can one of the biggest risks with

2:39:15this project is the LPA could have been

2:39:19adopted right after the MIS but it

2:39:21wasn't

2:39:22And so a certain amount of time since

2:39:232022 has gone by, councils turn over,

2:39:27things conditions change, we find out

2:39:30more about the commuter rail not going

2:39:31to move forward. Um and and how

2:39:35essential that might be for co-location

2:39:36with the BRT. Um and this is what sort

2:39:41of what can happen, right? Like opinions

2:39:43change on alignment or where where

2:39:46investment should be. So yeah, I mean I

2:39:48would have preferred for [laughter] for

2:39:50the LPA to have been done in 2022 if

2:39:53that was the signal from council at the

2:39:54time uh because then you would have that

2:39:57would have been a better riskmanagement

2:40:00strategy I think regionally to get local

2:40:03governments on board if they were

2:40:05certainly if they were on board then.

2:40:07But I wanted to ask

2:40:10for the resolution. So there is no

2:40:13language in this resolution about um

2:40:17anything that has to do with other

2:40:19alignments and opinions on other

2:40:21alignments

2:40:23that could be added. So let me I was

2:40:25going to here's where I'm really going

2:40:26with this. Would you adopt the

2:40:30resolution if there was language added

2:40:33to it that expressed

2:40:38this dissatisfaction

2:40:41for the alignment that is being

2:40:43considered over the other one the the

2:40:46the Davis Drive one but it said

2:40:50something to the effect of understanding

2:40:52the regional

2:40:54um market and purpose and need for this

2:40:58project being on the alignment that it

2:41:01is

2:41:03fine. We endorse that. Some of it is

2:41:06like how are you what are you

2:41:08communicating in the language of the

2:41:10endorse of the resolution that could

2:41:13potentially be a fixed or if you'd

2:41:15rather go with a letter that's fine too.

2:41:17I'm just saying there resolutions can

2:41:20say whatever they you want them to say.

2:41:23Um, but I'm trying to still maybe and I

2:41:26want, you know, council should do what

2:41:28the council feels is best, but I'm I'm

2:41:30sort of trying to point you in the

2:41:31direction of are you willing to have

2:41:34this or nothing at all? Like if it was a

2:41:37choice between this or nothing at all,

2:41:38what would your what would your choice

2:41:41be?

2:41:48>> My turn.

2:41:52We can go. That's fine.

2:41:54>> So,

2:41:56I think we want to be clear first. Is

2:41:58there any timeline on this letter of

2:42:01endorsement?

2:42:03>> Yeah. So, if you want it to be

2:42:05considered before the vote, the campaign

2:42:07executive board will be voting on

2:42:09September, I think it's 16th.

2:42:12>> Okay. So, we've got a little time if we

2:42:14need to. So I also want to clarify

2:42:17you're asking for some summary

2:42:18information from you know five and six

2:42:21years ago. Do you want that before a

2:42:24decision is made or do you want that

2:42:25just as information for council?

2:42:31>> I guess information for council before

2:42:33we vote or something. I'm not sure. I

2:42:36think it might help inform people um

2:42:41about why it was then

2:42:44there's some differences now, but I'm

2:42:47just going with the analogy of Airport

2:42:49Boulevard. Well, I I think I understand

2:42:52what you're saying about, you know, what

2:42:54was the scenario since I was on the

2:42:56council in 2022, but it's also relevant

2:43:01that certain things have changed since

2:43:032022, like we lost the the rail stuff.

2:43:07We, you know, the delay of mccrimin

2:43:11flyover. I mean there's just you know a

2:43:13few big milestone things that have

2:43:16happened to the ecosystem of the

2:43:18Morrisville

2:43:20um transit you know road projects and so

2:43:22forth. So it'd be great to have the 2022

2:43:25but also I'd like to know what has

2:43:28happened majorly to maybe influence our

2:43:31current situation

2:43:35>> because as was mentioned we do have some

2:43:36time now till September. So, I'm not

2:43:39sure how much we want to keep digging in

2:43:40on this to council member's member

2:43:44body's point.

2:43:45>> Well, I don't think it's a good idea.

2:43:47So, August 11th is just not going to

2:43:51work. [laughter]

2:43:52>> No, that's that's why I was asking about

2:43:54the timeline and the others. So, I think

2:43:57>> because and I'll I'll sidestep a little

2:44:00bit um in terms of the resolution. I

2:44:03think the resolution if you adopt it to

2:44:05endorse, you're endorsing. I mean, you

2:44:08could have other language in it, but

2:44:10you're still endorsing the plan. So, I

2:44:12think there needs to be a clear decision

2:44:13around whether that's what you intend to

2:44:15do or not. Um, and you could still send

2:44:19a letter um that could be separate from

2:44:22that or could be in lie of a resolution

2:44:25that express what some of your concerns

2:44:27and that might be a letter that includes

2:44:28some of that background data of what you

2:44:30previously expressed and what your

2:44:32concerns are with the decision that's

2:44:34been made now about the selected route.

2:44:37So I think it's probably probably one or

2:44:40the other would I think be my

2:44:42suggestion.

2:44:45So what I further suggest we do is let

2:44:47us circle back on this. Um and again to

2:44:51council member Scott Johnson point, we

2:44:53have a council member that's not here.

2:44:55Um so we can certainly communicate with

2:44:57him. I think if we could come back the

2:44:5925th if if there's time I need to look

2:45:01at the rolling calendar we can make time

2:45:03I think to bring this back and then

2:45:05worst case there's still a meeting after

2:45:08that if we needed to squeeze it in

2:45:10before the campo vote

2:45:13is that reasonable

2:45:15head

2:45:16>> not

2:45:18yes I have one just to be perfectly

2:45:21clear [laughter]

2:45:23>> again this is me

2:45:25I want to send a message

2:45:28And that's what's important to me. This

2:45:31resolution,

2:45:33the most important part is the now

2:45:35therefore be it resolved. The rest of it

2:45:38is it's not slopp. The rest of it is

2:45:41very important.

2:45:43The gist of any resolution and the first

2:45:45thing I look at at every resolution is

2:45:48that last paragraph. That's what we're

2:45:50going to do and act on. And it says

2:45:54endorses. And that is not the message I

2:45:57want to send.

2:45:59Knowing full well that this is a

2:46:01regional plan and there's lots of things

2:46:03at play. That is not lost on me. For me,

2:46:08I want to send a message that

2:46:11more. We have a population that's in in

2:46:15being taxed now and is not seeing a

2:46:17benefit. So that's what's important to

2:46:19me. In a letter, however we do that,

2:46:22that would be fine with me. But anyhow,

2:46:24and I do not need the history. It

2:46:27doesn't matter what happened five years

2:46:29ago, six years ago. What matters is

2:46:32today. So you don't need to go back for

2:46:34me. You don't need to go back and do all

2:46:36that work. Um because I'm not going to

2:46:38change my mind in my position. But

2:46:41that's just to be perfectly clear.

2:46:48Um, I think that

2:46:51the reason that the letter is preferable

2:46:53to me than a resolution, whether we

2:46:55voted up or down, is because we had the

2:46:57opportunity to provide exactly that

2:47:00context. We understand that this is a

2:47:02regional project. We understand that

2:47:05there were times in the past when we

2:47:07might have supported such a thing. Like,

2:47:08I don't really need you to go back and

2:47:09find that out. I remember the

2:47:11discussions back when we thought we were

2:47:12getting light rail.

2:47:15who cared what us, you know, but

2:47:20that's why I would prefer a letter is

2:47:23because we can lay out exactly what we

2:47:25are in support of, which I believe were

2:47:28united in support that we'd rather have

2:47:29this than nothing. But we, you know, we

2:47:34have a responsibility to our residents,

2:47:36too. And they, everyone that this is

2:47:39benefiting is coming through

2:47:40Morrisville. They they don't live here.

2:47:42Morrisville people to get onto mccrimin

2:47:45onto mccrimin extension are still gonna

2:47:48have to get in their cars or on their

2:47:50bikes.

2:47:56>> You gentlemen have what you need.

2:47:58>> I think so. [laughter] Well, Brandon

2:48:00doesn't think so.

2:48:01>> Okay.

2:48:03So I would like to know if there's

2:48:04consensus or not before I task staff

2:48:06with bringing back a lot of five and

2:48:08sixy old information if there's

2:48:10consensus around needing that or not.

2:48:12Respectfully I just I don't want to ask

2:48:14them to do that if there's not a

2:48:16consensus around needing that.

2:48:17>> I I don't need it. Um,

2:48:21but

2:48:23it would just highlights of maybe some

2:48:26things that have happened in the last

2:48:28five years like the delays of the road

2:48:31projects or some something like that. I

2:48:33mean, you don't have to

2:48:37what has been the transit milestones,

2:48:39you know, up and down maybe the top five

2:48:43impacts or something. So, a suggestion,

2:48:47um, if we're going to draft a letter, I

2:48:49think that's information we could

2:48:50include in a letter. Um, again, I think

2:48:52some of the highlights. So, if you're

2:48:53okay with that approach, let us start

2:48:55working on I say us, I mean them. Um,

2:48:59start drafting a letter that will

2:49:01address what your concerns are and we

2:49:03can hit some of the highlights of one of

2:49:05your concerns is that things have

2:49:06changed and and this may not align with

2:49:08what you would like to see.

2:49:12>> So, I would like that history But I'm

2:49:14not familiar with most of the council

2:49:16list. So whatever information you can

2:49:19provide

2:49:23>> I I think I I'm clear on what you're

2:49:27looking for here. So um but it won't be

2:49:30on your August 11th agenda.

2:49:33>> So maybe

2:49:38>> Oh, sorry.

2:49:40>> Harrison, did you have a thought? Sorry,

2:49:41council member counseling. Excuse me.

2:49:43Yes. Um,

2:49:45so

2:49:47I was not here five years ago. So I, uh,

2:49:52you know, the conversation that we're

2:49:53having now is on the wake VRT.

2:49:57I have I I have the benefit of,

2:50:02it's maybe not a benefit. Um, it's

2:50:04neutral maybe, but coming in, it's like,

2:50:06oh yeah, you got TOD, you got Mcrimin,

2:50:09of course BRT is going to go that way.

2:50:12But it was not the that was not what was

2:50:16being discussed

2:50:18when that was being developed. It was um

2:50:20the light rail, the um

2:50:23>> commuter rail, the commuter rail, um

2:50:26these road projects that were coming in.

2:50:28Um I I would like to have a bit more

2:50:31information um to council member Scargin

2:50:34Johnson points of um because Wake BR BRT

2:50:38was not discussed at that time. Correct.

2:50:43I think I think it was

2:50:46>> been on We chose the alternative end

2:50:51was

2:50:51>> it was

2:50:52>> this alternative.

2:50:53>> Okay.

2:50:54>> Okay. So if there was a BRT

2:50:59option uh that was discussed at that

2:51:02time it would have likely have been a

2:51:04different um alternative let's say or

2:51:07emphasize a different alternative might

2:51:09have influenced the land use plan 2019

2:51:12land use plan in a different way. Have

2:51:14we not had we known that the

2:51:18had we known that the light rail

2:51:20[clears throat]

2:51:20>> the sorry

2:51:22>> rail station is still in the plans it's

2:51:25still in the plans

2:51:26>> yeah had we known then that that was not

2:51:29coming I think the discussion would have

2:51:32gone differently that's why I'm saying

2:51:33that

2:51:37I'm I'm just not sure there was a lot of

2:51:39conversation the situation was very

2:51:42different from transit perspective

2:51:44So, you know, I'm just not I just am not

2:51:47sure that the additional context would

2:51:51elucidate this situation that much. It's

2:51:54it's because it's it's very different.

2:51:56>> I I feel though it is important to

2:51:58include in our letter.

2:52:00>> Agree.

2:52:01>> To say, you know, this is not what we

2:52:04were intending when we first when we,

2:52:07you know, developed this um land use. I

2:52:11think that's kind of the critical thing

2:52:12here. kind of the journey.

2:52:14[clears throat]

2:52:20>> I'm sure you have more than you need.

2:52:23>> No,

2:52:24I'm good. I mean, I'm still If you have

2:52:26more to say, happy to take it. Um,

2:52:30[laughter]

2:52:30>> but I I think I'm picking up what you're

2:52:33putting down.

2:52:35>> I would I would like more detail on

2:52:38that, but that doesn't have to come

2:52:39before this letter is written. on kind

2:52:44of what was decid what was what was

2:52:45desired at that time um and then some of

2:52:48those changes that have been made.

2:52:50>> I'd be happy to talk to you about my

2:52:52perspective um and some of my thinking

2:52:55and then you know you can um ask

2:52:58follow-up questions of staff based on

2:52:59that and I'm sure everybody who was on

2:53:02council is open to that as well.

2:53:04>> And if not this has all the minutes in

2:53:06her basement.

2:53:09>> [laughter]

2:53:10>> I got lots of

2:53:18>> I would get out when nobody has to do

2:53:20anything.

2:53:20>> All right. Good. [laughter]

2:53:22>> You're good to go, man. Go home.

2:53:24>> Very nice.

2:53:29>> Good presentation. [laughter]

2:53:30Don't worry about sending us all 86

2:53:32slides. This was just about right.

2:53:34>> Appreciate that. Um, okay. Anything for

2:53:38the good of the order before we go into

2:53:39close session? Well, we're going to go

2:53:41into a break first.

2:53:42>> Yes, let's go into close session.

2:53:45>> Which is the direction? Which way you do

2:53:47it first? Close session first and then

2:53:48we take break. That's right. Now I

2:53:49remember.

2:53:50>> Um, I'd entertain a motion to enter

2:53:52close session for two different items.

2:53:54One property um acquisition contract and

2:53:58the other for personnel. I make a motion

2:54:01that we go into close session pursuant

2:54:03to NCGS143-318-11

2:54:07A5 and

2:54:10and A6 to discuss the acquisition of

2:54:13real property and a personnel matter

2:54:16>> second

2:54:18motion from speaker

2:54:20>> Mayor Brutam Rabati and apparently

2:54:23council member Scaris Johnson is

2:54:24claiming the second so I'll give it to

2:54:26her. All those in favor entering close

2:54:27session please say I. I. Any opposed?

2:54:30Hearing none. That carries unanimously.

2:54:326. We are now in close session. Please

2:54:34clear the room of unnecessary uh not

2:54:38needed personnel. And we're going to

2:54:39take uh 15. Is that good for people? 15

2:54:44minute break. So, please come.

2:54:45>> 10.

2:54:46>> Okay. Come back at 8:43. Split the

2:54:49difference. Thank you very

2:54:52Thank you. Math.