2026-09-10 - Town Council Work Session

16:03Good evening. I call this Morrisville

16:05Town Council work session for September

16:0610th, 2026 to order. We have um

16:10discussion items and then a clo to be

16:12followed by close session this evening.

16:14And I want to note that council member

16:16Liz Johnson is participating with us

16:18remotely tonight. So, thank you for

16:20doing that. And council member Scraggy

16:22Johnson will be absent. At this time,

16:24I'd like to recognize

16:27um Paul Assard for a our first item 2A

16:322026 general assembly recap

16:34presentation. Sir,

16:37>> thank you, Mayor.

16:41So, this presentation is aimed at

16:44informing council um as to what has

16:47happened in the recent short session uh

16:50of our state general assembly. Um we'll

16:52be going through the different bills

16:54that were signed into law or passed via

16:57a veto override. um talk about some of

17:02the bills that may be on the horizon

17:04moving into the next session the

17:06following year uh with the new general

17:08assembly after the elections and then

17:10we'll finish up by discussing uh some of

17:13the constitutional amendments that are

17:14on the ballot this November and how all

17:16of these could potentially impact

17:18Morrisville. Before we get into that um

17:21just a little bit of brief uh overview

17:23for anyone who may not be familiar um

17:25with some of the terminology or how our

17:27state legislature works. The general

17:29assembly is a two-chamber legislature uh

17:32similar to our federal congress if

17:34you're familiar with that with a upper

17:36house the senate and a lower house the

17:38house. There are 120 members uh of the

17:41house and 50 of the senate. Um a veto

17:44proof uh majority is uh 72

17:48representatives in the house and 30 in

17:50the senators. So it's a three-fifth

17:51majority. Bills are passed in a manner

17:54similar to our federal congress. So they

17:56originate in either the house or the

17:58senate. They have to pass by a majority

18:01vote in both the House and the Senate uh

18:04to be sent to the governor who can then

18:06choose to either sign or veto the bill.

18:08If the bill is vetoed, that veto

18:10override majority is necessary in both

18:12chambers to override and have the bill

18:14become law. And then our uh general

18:18assembly does not operate year round

18:21like our federal congress. Um they

18:23operate in long and short sessions uh

18:25depending on the year. Uh we just

18:28finished a short session for 2026. Um

18:31that went on during the summer months

18:33and Congress or excuse me the general

18:35assembly is now officially in recess

18:37unless a short session or a a emergency

18:40session is called um which has the

18:43potential to happen depending on the

18:45results of the election uh this

18:46November.

18:49Um just as a quick refresh for some of

18:52the council legislative goals and some

18:53of the actions uh that um we do to

18:56support those goals. So the last set of

18:59council go legislative goals were

19:01outlined um in 2025. Uh these are

19:04resilient infrastructure, healthy

19:06finances, uplifting undeserved

19:08underserved communities, vibrant

19:10communities and neighborhoods and

19:12adaptive municipal ordinances. Town

19:14staff takes a number of actions to help

19:16keep uh ourselves informed and in

19:20support of these goals. Brandon is

19:23involved with a group of other town

19:25managers who consistently discuss the

19:27impacts of bills proposed in the general

19:29assembly and how they're likely to

19:31affect us and other local governments.

19:33Um you all may remember uh the letter

19:36that we proposed to you regarding the

19:38property tax amendment uh that will be

19:40on the ballot this November. Um, we

19:42contact legislators and uh inform them

19:46about our concerns uh with pieces of

19:48legislation. Uh, and then we also track

19:50and uh put forward updates regarding

19:53bills in the general assembly um to you

19:56and try to keep you informed on the

19:58impacts of them and how they will

19:59potentially impact our community if they

20:01are passed.

20:04Moving on, um this uh will jump into the

20:08bills that are now laws uh that were uh

20:11made into law during the short session.

20:14So these bills either passed and were

20:16signed into law by Governor Stein or

20:18they were vetoed and overwritten by

20:20supermajorities in both chambers.

20:23We'll start off with the biggest bill uh

20:26to come out of the general assembly this

20:28session and that is Senate Bill 257 uh

20:32budget. This is the first North Carolina

20:34budget since 2023 and it has a number of

20:38provisions that will impact

20:41local governments across the state and

20:43Morrisville in particular. Um, first one

20:45being that local government inspections

20:47departments are now required to collect

20:49fees for building permits and remit

20:52those fees to the state to fund a new

20:54building codes and inspections bureau

20:56along with listed permits that have been

20:58issued by type. This has the potential

21:00to increase our perity cost um because

21:03now we are assigned an additional fee to

21:05be supplemented along with them uh and

21:08will create more workload for staff uh

21:10when it comes to the process of

21:12compiling list of permits to be

21:13submitted as well as ensuring that the

21:15payments made uh to the state bureau are

21:17accurate.

21:19This bill also adds administrative

21:21decisions to the list of zoning

21:22decisions that may be appealed directly

21:24to court. So currently um or previously

21:29uh decisions uh that were made at the

21:32administrative level um regarding zoning

21:35permits uh had to be remitted to um the

21:38board of adjustment first and if a

21:41unfavorable outcome was reached there

21:43for the applicant. It could then be

21:45challenged in court. it can now be

21:47challenged directly in civil court

21:48without not going through the board of

21:50adjustment being viewed as a loss of

21:52pursuit um which has the potential to

21:55increase uh the number of zoning

21:57decisions being appealed um because

21:59there is one less step in that burden.

22:03Uh the final provision that uh has the

22:06potential to impact more so

22:07significantly um regards SNAP over

22:10expenditure penalties. So as a result of

22:13the one big beautiful bill act uh that

22:15was passed in 2025 by federal government

22:19uh states are now responsible for over

22:22expenditures for SNAP payments um

22:24reaching 15% or more uh for any given

22:27year. North Carolina has taken so has

22:30been so far the only state to take this

22:32step um has essentially remitted that

22:36responsibility to local governments um

22:38and counties in particular. So if our

22:42entire over expenditures for the entire

22:44state, it is not done locally or or by

22:47county. It's it's measured as a state of

22:49a whole reaches 15% or higher, then all

22:53counties will be on the hook for paying

22:55that whatever that gap is back and that

22:58will be taken out of sales tax which

23:00directly impacts the amount of local

23:02sales tax that we receive. Um, so this

23:04has the potential to impact the amount

23:06of revenue that we bring in as a

23:08government and then what we can fund

23:10accordingly.

23:13House bill 268 um goes in line with the

23:18uh budget. This is just um a series of

23:20adjustments that were made. Uh the

23:23primary uh element that impacts us here

23:27um involves local government commission.

23:29So, this would remove uh some of the

23:31appointees on the local government

23:33commission um specifically the secretary

23:35of state and the two appointees that are

23:38currently uh set by the governor and

23:40would replace them with three general

23:42assembly appointed members to the LGC's

23:45executive board. This has the potential

23:48to impact uh our finances. So, the LGC

23:52oversees a number of financial

23:53conditions for the town. um what types

23:56of loans we are allowed to qualify for,

23:58how frequently we're audited, what

24:00fiscal oversight measures are put in

24:02place. Uh some of these I think will be

24:05more specific to communities that have

24:08struggled financially in the past, at

24:10least much more so than than Moore still

24:12has. Uh some are potential realistic

24:14outcomes that could impact us. Um there

24:17have been some talks uh among members of

24:19the general assembly about wanting to

24:21increase audit frequency. That is

24:23something that with a a new political

24:26leaning in the LGC uh could come to

24:29fruition.

24:32House Bill 162 uh focuses on uh a number

24:37of zoning changes uh specifically

24:39related to Austri Parking and storm

24:41water. Um this would prohibit any sort

24:44of regulations requiring off street

24:46parking lots to meet a minimum number of

24:48parking spaces uh per development or

24:50structure.

24:52uh this uh will impact uh Morsville

24:56because we we do have those restrictions

24:57in place and will require us to amend

24:59our UDOS accordingly um before this goes

25:03into effect in January.

25:05Uh it also prevents new or increased

25:07retroactive storm water control mandates

25:09on existing builtupon areas during

25:11property redevelopment.

25:13Uh this could make water runoff an issue

25:16um and potentially contribute to some of

25:18those parking safety concerns uh that

25:19will also be impacted by parking lot

25:21restrictions.

25:23Um the final bullet points, I apologize,

25:26I was a little unclear with this. Um the

25:28reasonzoning component is specific to

25:30storm water. So the storm water

25:32restrictions most likely do not impact

25:34reszoning. The parking lot restrictions

25:37absolutely will. Um, so if a property

25:40goes through reszoning, um, then it is

25:43likely to to be impacted by any new

25:45storm water mandates that have gone into

25:47effect, uh, between those those time

25:50periods.

25:52>> Could you I'm sorry, could you say that

25:53again? So, um, the way that House Bill

25:57162 basically works is that if a, um, a

26:01redevelopment occurs on a a lot, um, and

26:08between the time uh, when that

26:10redevelopment occurs and when the

26:12building was last or when the building

26:14was was I guess last one through the

26:16process was built, um, any new mandates

26:21that have been put into place regarding

26:23storm water runoff uh do not apply to

26:27that redevelopment. So basically it's

26:29it's the old rules that still apply. Um

26:33this

26:34provision

26:36does likely not apply to reszoning. So

26:39if there has been a reasonzoning that

26:41has taken place in that time frame, that

26:43would apply to the new development and

26:44thus those new storm water rules would

26:46kick in.

26:52All right. Uh moving on to the last

26:55relevant bill that was passed in the

26:57short session. Um Senate Bill 445

27:00uh requires local governments to improve

27:02design for home power installations

27:04connected at 600 volts or less. Um it

27:08defines home power installation as any

27:11sort of electric generating or energy

27:13storage system, standby system, or

27:15associated equipment intended to provide

27:17electric power to a building or

27:19structure.

27:21It would require local governments to

27:22allow at least one accessory dwelling

27:25that conforms to the NC residential code

27:27uh for one and two family dwellings. And

27:30that it prohibits local government from

27:32taking certain actions when permitting

27:33accessory dwelling units um such as we

27:36cannot require them to uh take place

27:38within a conditional zoning district. We

27:40cannot place limitations on whether they

27:42are used for rental versus living

27:44purposes.

27:46Um and uh we cannot uh implement some

27:50and this is probably over by 162 but we

27:53cannot establish minimum parking uh lot

27:55requirements for those accessory

27:56dwelling units. Um this has the the

27:59potential to weaken uh our ability to

28:02plan out uh for our town effectively and

28:05impact our our local zoning authority

28:07negatively.

28:08>> What's an accessory dwelling unit? So an

28:11accessory dwelling unit is basically a

28:14um a building or or some sort of

28:16structure that is

28:20>> suit

28:27your backyard.

28:28>> Yeah, you can have.

28:29>> So it's it's basically any sort of

28:30structure where there is an attempt to

28:33to live in basically make it habitable.

28:41Moving on. Um, these bills did not make

28:43it into law during the session, uh, but

28:46had significant action taken on them

28:48and, uh, may be likely candidates to be

28:51moved forward into laws for the next

28:52session or attempts to override veto

28:55that occurred previously.

28:57Um, the first one, uh, is

29:02>> Vanna is slowing down over here.

29:04>> Uh, is House Bill 958. Um these uh this

29:09bill impacts uh some of the Yes.

29:12>> Yeah. Sorry. Um before we go into the

29:15other ones, there's one more bill that

29:18has not affected us currently, but it's

29:23going to be affected in the short

29:26session. And that is the bill where um

29:30state government like they're taking

29:32away the power of how to do the zoning

29:36because [clears throat] for the first

29:37time you know the governor the

29:40Republicans and the Democrats all are in

29:42the same for more housing. So right now

29:45the bill which has passed is any

29:47population more than 80,000 people

29:50you cannot the towns cannot enforce

29:54um restrictions like for example our

29:56macrian you said you have to have the

29:58commercial component and all those

30:00restrictions you can't do it Kerry

30:02cannot basically impose it so that is

30:05they set the threshold of 80,000

30:08I'm hearing the next session they're

30:10bringing down to 10,000

30:13so Which means more power u will be

30:16taken away and especially the planning

30:19and others it will be hard uh how we

30:23dictate you know what our vision is

30:26versus what you know the developers can

30:29come and do it

30:31just putting it out there I'll send you

30:34the bill number which is because they're

30:37they already started putting paperwork

30:39on

30:43Um moving to House Bill 958. Uh this is

30:47a series of changes um regarding

30:50election rules that apply to elections

30:52at all levels across the state. Uh the

30:55two big components that have the

30:57potential to impact Morrisville. Uh the

31:00first one is that it would limit early

31:02voting periods uh for towns for 10

31:04consecutive days before election day. Um

31:07so potentially limiting the uh room for

31:10for voter turnout uh for our community

31:14and then local and state boards of

31:15elections uh would not be able to make

31:17any sort of public statement encouraging

31:19voting even if it is not associated with

31:21a particular candidate. So that also

31:23limits uh the ability for um local

31:27officials to to get out vote um that's

31:30more the county level um but potentially

31:33decreases uh turnout in in elections.

31:43Senate Bill 992

31:45um would require local governments who

31:48wish to adopt a property tax greater

31:50than the revenue neutral tax rate

31:53specifically in property re-evaluation

31:55years um to provide public notice uh

31:59through a number of different formats to

32:01our residents. Uh the most pressing one

32:04is physical mail. So we would be

32:07required if this bill were to pass um to

32:10mail out a notification to every single

32:13household within our municipal borders

32:16informing them of our intention to

32:18pursue a tax rate greater than the

32:20revenue neutral rate uh in a property or

32:23excuse me in a property re-evaluation

32:25year. Um, we've done some preliminary

32:28estimates on the cost, uh, from just a a

32:31pure mailing, you know, writing,

32:34printing, writing, mailing things out

32:36standpoint. Um, we estimate this to to

32:39cost around $15,000

32:41uh, each time we do it.

32:44>> 155.

32:46Um, there are some discounts for

32:48largecale mailing from the post office

32:50which helps with that. Um, but this will

32:55cost the town time and and resources to

32:57to mail notifications if a a property

33:00tax increase beyond that revenue neutral

33:02rate is is desired.

33:07Um 9999

33:09uh is a a little bit of an ambiguous

33:12bill um but

33:16is one that I feel is is worth

33:18mentioning um because of some of the

33:20ambiguity in its text and and how it

33:21could potentially impact us. So the bill

33:24text itself states that it seeks to

33:27exempt local governments from extended

33:29review requirements in most areas and

33:31district zones for residential use.

33:34Given the backgrounds of the bill and

33:36what it speaks to, I believe it is

33:38trying to uh speak to environmental um

33:42timeline requirements here, uh the text

33:44of the bill is relatively ambiguous and

33:47this bill has not moved beyond uh the

33:50house or excuse me the senate where it

33:51was introduced initially. Um so my hope

33:54is that that becomes more clear uh as

33:57things move forward. Uh but that is is

33:59something that is has the potential to

34:02to impact us. It would also require

34:04local local housing authorities to

34:06create publicly available performance

34:07dashboards and to submit an annual

34:09report on program performance and funds

34:12allowed um which may just require some

34:14collaboration with our staff uh to

34:17ensure that the numbers that we provide

34:19are are up to date.

34:23>> And then a couple of bills um to to

34:25quickly watch. These ones have uh not

34:27advanced past the committee stage um but

34:30have the potential to to impact us uh

34:33moving forward if they do. Uh Senate

34:36Bill 7:30 would require a site

34:38assessment um anytime a local government

34:41wishes to pursue uh construction of a

34:44data center within its borders.

34:46House Bill 181, 1181, excuse me, um

34:50would lower the threshold required uh

34:53for qualification um for the uh

34:56homestead exclusion uh under property

34:59tax. Currently, the requirement is an

35:02income, household income of $38,000 or

35:05less. um this would change that to 70%

35:09of the area median income and then also

35:13enable a 115% over that amount um for

35:18individuals who are married. So unlike

35:21the the previous version or current

35:23version of the homestead exclusion which

35:26is a flat 38,000 for the entire house um

35:29this will make an adjustments uh based

35:31on marital status. Um this has the

35:34potential if it goes through to impact

35:36the amount of property tax that revenue

35:38that we bring in uh annually um and

35:41again diminish the the resources that we

35:43have to to work with to fund things. Uh

35:46and then lastly um Senate Bill 1047

35:50um has a number of requirements. Uh the

35:52most pressing one is that it establishes

35:55a week-long 7-day period um with which a

35:59local government has to determine

36:01whether either an application for

36:03amendment of the zoning map, an

36:05application for amendment of zoning

36:07regulations or an application for

36:09development approval is complete and we

36:12have to notify the applicant of either

36:14its completeness or incompleteness

36:16within that window. This extends the

36:19same 7-day window to any sort of

36:22applications for amended uh or

36:24supplemental information that may result

36:26as an occurrence of that. If we fail to

36:29notify within that 7-day window, the

36:32application is automatically viewed as

36:34completed, which has the potential to

36:38create significant stress on our um

36:42planning and and operations um and put

36:44them under uh a a continuous time

36:47pressure to make sure that nothing goes

36:49missed and that we are turning things

36:50around uh very quickly because if

36:53something does, it is automatically

36:54marked as complete.

37:00All right,

37:01>> moving forward. Um, these are the three

37:04uh amendments that have been put forward

37:07by the general assembly that will appear

37:09on the ballot this November. Uh, these

37:12amendments only need a 50% plus one uh

37:16majority to be approved. Um, so there is

37:19no 60% threshold like there is in in

37:22some states or or larger than that. It

37:24is just a simple majority.

37:27The first one uh is the amendment that

37:30uh you all have submitted a a letter for

37:33um earlier this year to the general

37:34assembly. Uh this would require the

37:37general assembly to implement some sort

37:40of cap on the amount that local

37:43governments can increase property tax by

37:45in any given year. There's a lot of

37:48ambiguity still left uh within this um

37:52restriction. uh it does not state when

37:55these restrictions would go into effect.

37:57It does not provide any detail as to

37:59what kind of cap it would be. So it

38:02makes no distinction as to whether it

38:03would be some kind of dollar amounts,

38:05whether it would be a percent. Um it

38:08just requires the general assembly to

38:09implement some sort of property tax

38:12increase cap.

38:15The next one uh would require a photo ID

38:19um for voters regardless of uh how they

38:22are submitting their votes. So currently

38:24in North Carolina, this is only required

38:26for inperson voting. Um this would

38:28extend it to mail in ballots as well. Um

38:32this has the potential to increase or

38:34decrease uh voter turnout um result in

38:37votes uh being cast out. Um, and for

38:40individuals who do not possess a photo

38:41ID, potentially make it more challenging

38:44uh for them to to vote accordingly.

38:46>> What's the actual requirement? Like a

38:50photo.

38:50>> Can you use your microphone?

38:54>> What's the actual requirement? Is it a

38:56photo copy of a government ID submitted

38:59with your ballot or

39:01>> the the [clears throat] amendment has

39:02has not made that particularly clear.

39:05Um, so that I would assume would would

39:07likely be hashed out in the general

39:09assembly assuming the amendment passes.

39:12Uh, but the the text of the amendment

39:14similar to the the property tax

39:16restrictions is is very vague on the the

39:19actual enforcement uh of this.

39:26Um, and then finally, uh, an amendment

39:29is on the ballot to cap, uh, income tax

39:32in the state of North Carolina at 3.5%.

39:35Um, the current constitutional cap is

39:387%. The current income tax rate at the

39:41state is 3.99%.

39:44Um, so this, if this goes into effect,

39:46uh, would drop, uh, the effective income

39:49tax rate for North Carolinians down to

39:513.5%.

39:53Um this currently uh does not directly

39:57impact Morrisville but may play out

40:00through several indirect effects um over

40:02the next few years um as the uh revenue

40:07pool um that has been brought in by the

40:09states uh continues to to shrink. Um, if

40:13that shrinks to a a particular point,

40:14the state may need to pursue other means

40:17of raising revenue, which would likely

40:19come through sales tax. Um, which in

40:21turn would potentially increase the cost

40:23of goods here and impact more so

40:25residents accordingly.

40:32Uh, all of these bills uh and future

40:34updates. Um obviously the the session is

40:37is over uh for 2026 but uh moving into

40:41the potential for um a emergency session

40:45being called in at the end of this year

40:47or the 277 session. Um we'll keep tabs

40:51uh and continue to update you weekly on

40:54updates that move forward with our our

40:56legislative dashboard. Um, so just as a

41:01>> Sorry, go back.

41:09>> Thank you.

41:12>> Sorry about that. [laughter]

41:14Um, this is viewable uh from the open

41:16data portal uh on Morsel's website. Um

41:20and uh we'll go into uh some detail

41:23regarding individual bills before, what

41:26their status is um colorcoded

41:28accordingly. Um where they are, what

41:30their their last update was, and then

41:32potential impacts on the town. Um so the

41:35the most recent updates within the last

41:38month or so are are highlighted on the

41:40front page. And then you can drill down

41:42further if you wish to see everything um

41:44by clicking into the all bills button.

41:47uh that will highlight every bill that

41:49has action had action taken on it um

41:51within this session that we we believe

41:53is is relevant to the town um regardless

41:56of of where it is in the process.

42:04Um just to close out uh if anyone uh has

42:08interest in contacting um their state

42:11representative and senator uh to

42:13advocate for policy change or to

42:15encourage them to vote one way or the

42:17other on a bill in the future. Um for

42:20our residents who live in Wake County,

42:23uh your representative is Maria Cervenia

42:26and your senator is Sydney Batch. Um

42:29they can be reached at the contact

42:30information above.

42:35>> [clears throat]

42:38>> And then for our residents who live in

42:39Durham County, uh your representative is

42:42Zach Hawkins and your senator is Natalie

42:45Murdoch. Um they can also be reached at

42:47the the contact information below.

42:56All right. Um that concludes uh the

42:59update on the general assembly. Um,

43:02there any questions?

43:03>> Yeah, the bill that I was talking is

43:05House Bill 1056. It's called relieving

43:08housing bottlenecks and it it's very

43:12clear. It says um it is the bill is

43:14entitled an act to allow residential

43:17development in all commercial zones to

43:19prohibit minimum parking requirements to

43:21require North Carolina Housing Finance

43:23Agency to establish a municipal housing

43:25approval acceleration program and to

43:28preserve single family ownership to

43:30establish workforce preconstruction

43:32revolving loan programs and to provide

43:35additional funding for North Carolina

43:36Housing Finance Agency. So they're like

43:39literally, you know, um

43:42going in saying that

43:45um you can't dictate to talks pretty

43:47much. You know, if it's residential, you

43:48have to kill it pretty much.

43:51>> That's at 80,000 or more.

43:53>> Yeah, this is 80,000. And then they are

43:55the same bill. They're trying to pull it

43:57down to 10,000.

44:00>> Mayor, I believe, were you first or was

44:03council member first? Okay.

44:06So, we're talking about all the election

44:08stuff. Um, and I just wanted to for

44:11transparency for our residents that

44:13there's also some bonds and there's a

44:15Wake Tech bond and a Wake County

44:18education bond. So, I just want to make

44:20sure that we're aware of that and that

44:23our residents are Raleigh has some other

44:24stuff that doesn't matter to us.

44:27So, will you be tracking that a little

44:29bit too and how that might affect us?

44:32>> Uh, we we certainly can. Um we're we're

44:35not doing so currently, but we can

44:36definitely incorporate that.

44:38>> That's the council's wish. Um so we can

44:41just give feedback to staff at some

44:42point, I guess.

44:44>> Is that agreeable to the group thumbs up

44:48to add this maybe to the list of

44:50tracking?

44:50>> So we're going to have um council member

44:52Patel and then council member Johnson is

44:55is want to ask question or make a

44:57comment.

45:00>> So thank you. Uh if we can go to slide

45:03number four uh SB 257

45:12>> slide four did you say council?

45:15>> Yes.

45:18>> So uh the first one uh inspections uh

45:24currently who's required to collect fees

45:26for the building?

45:27>> I beg your pardon. Current Currently who

45:31collects the fees?

45:32>> We do.

45:33>> We do. So I'm not sure it's a it says

45:38local government inspections department

45:39is required to collect fees for billing

45:41permit. So if you're already doing this

45:44>> Yes. So the the distinction there is

45:46that we are being required to collect

45:48additional fees to help fund the new

45:51Bureau of Make sure I'm getting the name

45:54right. Uh building codes and

45:57interpretations. um at the state level.

45:59So in theory we are are not at least to

46:04my knowledge we are not required to

46:06collect a fee. We could theoretically

46:10not charge [clears throat] anything for

46:11it but this would mandate that we

46:13require a state a fee that is

46:15essentially paid to the state um to to

46:18fund this new bureau.

46:19>> So we'll have to collect the fees and

46:21then somehow pay that to the state.

46:24>> That is correct.

46:26>> Understood. Thank you. And then the next

46:28item um I I I don't understand clearly

46:32adds administrative decision to list of

46:34zoning decisions that may be appealed.

46:40>> Can you give an example of

46:42administrative decisions?

46:43>> Sure. Um, so administrative decisions

46:46are are different from quasi judicial uh

46:50or or legislative decisions which are

46:52interpretations of of zoning laws that

46:54are brought forth by um usually either a

46:57court or uh the general assembly um or

47:02potentially even the the federal

47:04government. Um these are kind of your

47:06everyday decisions to enforce

47:08development ordinances, um zoning

47:11permits, notices of violation,

47:14um interpretations of like a zoning

47:16ordinance, uh something that that our

47:18staff would would do essentially.

47:24>> Okay. And u and then on the next page uh

47:31it talks about snap over expenditure

47:33penalties.

47:35Um what is snap over expenditure if you

47:38can explain. So, um when we

47:44when we issue SNAP payments um to

47:49individuals

47:50um sometimes we

47:54>> wait

47:56>> um sometimes states administer more

48:00money than they should. Um and this can

48:04be due to to a number of factors. Um, it

48:07can be, you know, someone uh picks up an

48:10extra shift at work and generates some

48:12additional income. Um, it can be that uh

48:16somebody reports their rent and

48:18utilities together instead of separately

48:20and that affects the amount of money

48:21that they they should be receiving.

48:24Um, and uh when the the state

48:29essentially pays more than than they are

48:31deemed to be owed, that is viewed as as

48:33an overexpenditure. So the the federal

48:36government remits the funding to the

48:38state and then if that percentage right

48:41um so the amount that that we should pay

48:44out versus the amount that we do pay out

48:46if that percentage goes beyond 15% the

48:49state is required to pay back the

48:51difference and North Carolina has taken

48:55so far the the first state to to take

48:57this step um is placing that burden on

49:00local governments to recover that cost.

49:03So pretty much it's the it's over

49:07expenditure due to their oversight but

49:09we are being asked to share the burden

49:13of it.

49:14>> Yes. So uh o oversight or or just um

49:19individuals failing to to update things

49:23properly. Um, so

49:26it it

49:30I would I would hesitate to say that

49:32that every single

49:34issue comes from from someone failing to

49:37to to do their their

49:40>> job. Yeah.

49:41>> Yeah.

49:41>> Okay.

49:43>> All right. Thank you for that. And then

49:45last question is on slide seven.

49:51Um the first item about off street

49:54parking lot uh does that only apply to

50:00uh reszoning?

50:02>> So it as as best we understand it it

50:04does. Yes.

50:07>> Okay. All right. That's all I have.

50:09>> Thank you council member Patel. We'll

50:11have council member Johnson and then

50:14Mayor Proati next.

50:18>> Um thank you Jamie. And thank you, Paul.

50:21Great presentation. Thank you for the

50:24overview and the update on these really

50:26important bills and how they affect

50:28Morrisville. I get I'm familiar with all

50:32of these except for the uh Senate Bill

50:35257 with the SNAP overexposure that um

50:40Council Member Patel was just talking

50:42about. Has there been any analysis

50:46to how this will affect local

50:49governments financially? Do we know and

50:52is there any data to back that backs

50:56this up?

50:57So to my best knowledge um the the

51:00current status is that NCLM is working

51:03on an estimate um for how much we would

51:06have been impacted or I guess local

51:09governments would have been impacted

51:10because it's it's spread out evenly um

51:12regardless of where the uh the

51:16overpayments occur. Um NCLM is is

51:19working on putting together an estimate

51:21for that. Uh they're also working on

51:23advocacy to uh encourage the general

51:25assembly to revisit um this provision

51:28before it goes into to law officially in

51:31October of next year. Um so hopefully

51:33we'll have some numbers to to share

51:36forward with how it it might potentially

51:38impact us uh in the coming months.

51:41>> Okay, good. So yeah, definitely one to

51:43follow and you're right, there's always

51:46tweaking of these laws. So, um, I

51:49appreciate you tracking that because

51:51that one kind of I don't I don't know. I

51:53don't even know how to understand the

51:56impact to us locally, but I guess more

51:58to come. Thank you,

52:01May.

52:05>> I'm sorry to say that I don't really

52:07understand

52:09the 257 budget bill at all. SNAP is a

52:13federal program.

52:15>> So I I guess I don't we don't pay out

52:21any money to SNAP.

52:23>> So yeah, so as a result of the one big

52:26beautiful bill that was passed in 2025.

52:29Um there are now requirements for states

52:32to pay back over expenditures

52:35um of federal funding for SNAP uh that

52:38are 15% beyond what the state should

52:40have paid out. So we would be

52:43responsible for the repayment of people

52:45in Morrisville who were

52:48>> I I just don't understand the premise.

52:51So, so the way it it works is that the

52:53entire state is is basically on the the

52:56book for the same amount of money. And

52:59the way that the general assembly has

53:01crafted this provision into the bill is

53:03that if the entire state goes over,

53:07basically every county is is

53:11equitably on on the book for the same

53:12amount. Um so it will get taken out of

53:15of sales tax uh for

53:18everywhere equally um regardless of

53:20where the overpayments occur.

53:22>> But that doesn't make any sense.

53:24>> I think that's what they have done. I

53:26think from talk uh answering Liz's

53:30question I think Wake County is around

53:3335 to $50 million um is the head that

53:37big has to bear the price for that. So

53:41if you equate

53:43it, you know, if money, you can push it

53:45down to the cities and towns. So

53:48everyone has to pay if it goes over the

53:51budget and

53:53>> sales taxes to

53:55>> so so so conte so bottom line conte will

53:58say is

54:00the sales tax comes from the cont side

54:02right

54:02>> it's distributed from the county.

54:04>> Yeah exactly. So uh they will they want

54:07to recoup that money. So where will they

54:09go? they have this part of sales tax and

54:11they'll hit that and that will be

54:14distributed based on the population that

54:16we have. Sales tax is by the population

54:18not by how much money and how much you

54:20spend in that area.

54:22>> So even if nobody in Morrisville, even

54:24if nobody in Wake County goes over on

54:27any SNAP provision, we will still be on

54:30the hook for whatever the

54:34assigned percentages.

54:35>> That is that is how the bill is is

54:37written or the law is written currently.

54:42Well, that's just a gift keeps on

54:43giving, isn't it?

54:44>> I'm going to correct myself. It's

54:46distributed from the state level, but

54:47the county has to report the

54:49information. We base ourselves taxes on

54:51all sales receipts

54:59in Wake County and we get our proportion

55:01share. So, it does impact us all.

55:06Another question.

55:09>> So how do they determine over

55:11expenditure? Apparently, if somebody say

55:15failed to report income

55:18and do the you know SNAP benefits that

55:21at a at federal level they're

55:23determining that

55:26I can so sorry I've read a lot about

55:29this [laughter] so that's the reason so

55:32as part of the uh one beautiful bill

55:37regularly um the federal government

55:40checks once a year you you know um like

55:43are you getting the benefits? Is there

55:45anything change in your you know house

55:47style you know are you getting more

55:48income you know and then they kind of

55:50adjust it now they put a new rule every

55:54six months they have to go and verify so

55:57that has pushed the whole burden on DHHS

56:02um and then DHHS is trying to basically

56:05find partners to do it um because um as

56:09he was mentioning on Tuesday I and Rose

56:14and Erin had like an hour conversation

56:16with the DHHS secretary uh regarding the

56:20same thing as to what you can do because

56:23they had a gap the DHS had a gap of $380

56:27million

56:28and the general assembly funded it uh

56:31because of this one beautiful bill and

56:34now the state government is saying okay

56:36we did this but we can't sustain this

56:39way so they're pushing it down to

56:41>> counties

56:43sales tax have been used historically in

56:45the past to bridge gaps of decision

56:47changes that extend down from from

56:50really bills that get adopted and and

56:51I've seen in Morrisville where they've

56:53taken sales tax and um it's been a

56:56surprise during or and even after a

56:59budget's adopted that you have this

57:00deficit that you have to work with at

57:02the local level but they're pushing down

57:04that burden as far as they can go to

57:06spread

57:08I guess economically in their opinion

57:10the burden all the way

57:12And it's never fair. It's never well

57:15informed half the time when we do get

57:18notified that we're going to be held

57:19harmful in this case, but it does happen

57:23and that's a vehicle that they have at

57:25their disposal for self because they

57:27possess the authority. We do not.

57:33>> Council member Kesling, I believe you're

57:35next, mayor. Okay. Thank you.

57:41appreciated this update and the uh the

57:43dashboard as well. Um

57:47we do this once a year

57:50>> this presentation.

57:51>> Yeah.

57:52>> Um that this is I think the the first

57:54time we've we've done this. So I guess

57:57>> we've done it twice a year I believe

57:59with Aaron in the past. Um an update to

58:02council depending on when the session is

58:04[clears throat] wrapping up.

58:05>> Yeah, I think that's correct. So

58:06sometimes it may have been an

58:08administrative report and then other

58:09times it may have been an in-person

58:10report depending on the scope of what

58:12was there and and whether that was just

58:14information sharing or or discussion

58:16needed to happen. I I like receiving

58:19this presentation as a work session um

58:24and uh you having all the having all the

58:28information one um you know that we can

58:31talk about collectively but then also

58:33let the public know as well. So, I'd

58:35like to keep that continued. Um, if this

58:38is the first time we're thinking about

58:39doing this in the future, I definitely

58:40would appreciate that. Um,

58:44how is the dashboard updated? Is it

58:47automatic or manual?

58:49>> Uh, so there's there's a bit of both.

58:51Um, so the the dashboard is designed to

58:54grab uh update text um from the North

58:58Carolina legislative website. Uh but

59:01there is a a manual component as well uh

59:04that's brought over just from writing

59:06out the impacts on Morrisville

59:08specifically and then obviously going

59:10through the the the bill on a an

59:13individual staff level um consulting

59:15with the the subject matter experts

59:17within our town. So, um, our planning

59:20director, inspections director, um,

59:25fire marshall, um, who whoever the bill

59:29is most closely aligned with and and

59:31bringing in their thoughts as to things

59:32as well,

59:36where possible,

59:38could we turn some of these summaries

59:41into infographics

59:43that visually depict um, kind of what

59:46the impacts might be? uh the one with

59:48the um the permitting fees for for

59:52example, you know, scenario one or or

59:55this is what it was um where the fees

59:58were coming to the town and this you

1:00:00know the way it is now with the law the

1:00:02fees are going to the state and you know

1:00:04like what the effect of that is. Um it's

1:00:06nice to have a presentation with a lot

1:00:08of detail and words but a picture speaks

1:00:10a thousand words.

1:00:12>> So are you talking about for

1:00:13presentations in the future or on the

1:00:15dashboard? Um

1:00:20I don't want to make this a huge burden

1:00:24necessarily. I think if it's possible in

1:00:27presentations I think that would be nice

1:00:28because we get we get kind of those

1:00:30infographic views on a lot of other

1:00:32presentations. Um and those are very

1:00:34informative for us and um be able to

1:00:36pick it apart much uh

1:00:42sometimes just more easily and quickly

1:00:43and that sort of thing. So, I think that

1:00:45that would might be nice um for us as

1:00:47we're as we're going through this. Um

1:00:50so,

1:00:52doesn't necessarily have to be on the

1:00:53dashboard, I suppose, but if we receive

1:00:55an updated presentation in the future,

1:00:57that would be nice. Um

1:01:01so, one thing that I was thinking about

1:01:02while we were talking was um

1:01:08I guess two things. Uh the first thing

1:01:12obviously a lot of these things are

1:01:14going to have um detrimental effects on

1:01:16our staff. So I'm particularly

1:01:20interested in tracking you know what

1:01:23those effects are. Um and certainly if

1:01:26there's if it's a bipartisan piece of

1:01:28legislation that is causing the um you

1:01:31know the issues with the staff, you

1:01:32know, collecting that information and

1:01:34then being able to um you know, both on

1:01:36the staff side and the council side to

1:01:38then um you know, advocate for uh some

1:01:42sort of reform or tweak to those um more

1:01:44bipartisan bills. I think there might be

1:01:48more appetite to um you know, it was it

1:01:52was really good. it had a couple of

1:01:54issues. You know, here's how we can

1:01:56here's here's here's what would make the

1:01:58law that you all passed better. Um

1:02:01especially for our our municipal staff.

1:02:02That's something that I'm thinking

1:02:03about. Um I don't necessarily need to

1:02:06get into the details on the dashboard

1:02:08necessarily. maybe more of an internal

1:02:10tracking of um you know

1:02:14not to say lowhanging fruit necessarily

1:02:17but I think an effort needs to be made

1:02:19to on all for all of us to figure out

1:02:23how can we um

1:02:26you know advocate for the things that we

1:02:28need as a town um and if it's something

1:02:30that the state is doing then and I'm you

1:02:33know working with NCLM

1:02:35then I think you know figuring out how

1:02:37we can maybe coordinate those efforts

1:02:39and definitely if there's I know we

1:02:41receive some uh you know here's the

1:02:43state law that is um that is going to be

1:02:47decided on but I think it's also good

1:02:50the laws that have already been decided

1:02:51on trying to figure out how can we um

1:02:58you know tell the tell our legislators

1:03:00that you know this law that was passed

1:03:02um you know at this time and whatnot

1:03:04it's really causing us issues and um you

1:03:08know, we'd like to to work on addressing

1:03:10those issues. Um that would be and

1:03:12that's something I think that all of us

1:03:14should um contribute to if we if we can

1:03:17in our in our own ways. Um

1:03:21related to this is um I was thinking

1:03:25about the No Child Left Behind Act um

1:03:28from the early 2000s and the idea of

1:03:30that is perverse incentives

1:03:33um so like teaching to the test and uh

1:03:36basically forcing states to lower their

1:03:38thresholds

1:03:40um for like academic excellence right so

1:03:42it just lowers the standard so that the

1:03:44funding can come in. So, a an interest

1:03:48here is what are what are all these

1:03:49state laws incentivizing us to do? Um,

1:03:53you know, what might be genuinely good

1:03:55things um that we're being incentivized

1:03:58to do and what might be creating those

1:04:00perverse incentives. And so certainly

1:04:02for those types of incentives um

1:04:05essentially that and bringing in the um

1:04:07you know the struggle piece of that um

1:04:10and figuring out how we can advocate for

1:04:13uh those reforms.

1:04:16Those are all of my thoughts on this

1:04:19presentation and I really appreciate it

1:04:20and I really appreciate having this

1:04:21discussion.

1:04:24>> Any other questions, comments?

1:04:29>> I just want to take uh take I'll let the

1:04:33town manager speak.

1:04:34>> Thank you. Um a couple things in

1:04:37reference to council member Kesley's

1:04:39comments. One on the infographics. Um, I

1:04:42think we want to make sure that we're

1:04:43getting this dash dashboard up and

1:04:45functioning and that it's meeting the

1:04:47needs of the council as well as the

1:04:49community and our staff. Everybody's

1:04:51going to use that. So, we'd ask for some

1:04:53time to do that and maybe even run it

1:04:55through the long session next year when

1:04:56it's going to be even more challenging

1:04:58to keep up. Uh, and then we can think

1:05:00about adding things to it after that. We

1:05:02can certainly look at perhaps some

1:05:04infographics if there's consensus

1:05:06amongst council when we do a

1:05:08presentation, you know, once or twice a

1:05:10year, but I'd ask we hold off on

1:05:12anything within the actual um dashboard.

1:05:15Uh and then I would just also comment,

1:05:18you know, in terms of tracking the

1:05:19impact and then sharing that, you know,

1:05:22we we can do that. It's important that

1:05:24we do that in the context of working

1:05:27with our partners um you know our other

1:05:29managers in this region certainly NCLM

1:05:32um because they're a very good read

1:05:34typically on are we going to be

1:05:36successful and I hate to say that but I

1:05:38mean that's honestly the way that it

1:05:39sometimes works is we can be fired up

1:05:42and and unhappy with something but if we

1:05:44don't have others that feel that way

1:05:46we're just not going to Morrisville

1:05:48alone unfortunately is not going to make

1:05:50an impact to change legislation. I think

1:05:53if we find something we feel strongly

1:05:55about, we can reach out to, you know,

1:05:57Representative Cervania or others that

1:05:59that we work with to ask for some of

1:06:01that to be introduced. But again, we've

1:06:02also got to find a sponsor as well if

1:06:05we're the person that's driving that.

1:06:06So, just want to put some context to

1:06:08that. Not saying we shouldn't do that,

1:06:10but want to make sure we don't expect to

1:06:12do that and every single thing that

1:06:13comes through that impacts us because

1:06:15there's a lot of unfunded mandates

1:06:17there. There's a lot of other things

1:06:18that I just don't think we're going to

1:06:20make a difference in necessarily. Thank

1:06:22you.

1:06:23>> Thank you, town manager.

1:06:26Mayor, do you have a last final comment?

1:06:28>> I I thought we were done, but I just had

1:06:30a thought that in the past we've

1:06:32contemplated some kind of local bills

1:06:34and those are only during long session.

1:06:36So, be interested to know if staff

1:06:38thinks that there's anything that might

1:06:39have any traction that might benefit us.

1:06:42Um, and you probably would have

1:06:44presented it if it was existed, but I

1:06:46just want to remind everyone because our

1:06:47new members might not be as aware with

1:06:49the local bill option.

1:06:52So,

1:06:53>> thank you. I just wanted to take a

1:06:56minute and um just thank Paul. This

1:06:58really is a lot of work that I think you

1:07:01can clearly hear in his skill that he

1:07:06has worked very hard to get up to speed

1:07:08on. What I would say is a really broad

1:07:11spectrum of of of items uh that impact

1:07:15our town, our other towns, local

1:07:18municipalities in general. I just

1:07:20appreciate that effort that he's jumped

1:07:22into something like this to give you all

1:07:25this level of conversation and how he

1:07:28has actually worked out and across this

1:07:30organization with folks like our

1:07:33planning director Michelle and her team

1:07:35um tapping those subject matter experts

1:07:38and then externally our partners like

1:07:41NCLM and and others through Wake County.

1:07:45And I just appreciate all that effort

1:07:47that's culminated into what was a really

1:07:49good conversation and I and I appreciate

1:07:51you recognizing that and thank you.

1:07:55>> I quote too because a data guy working

1:07:58on government stuff is kind of a boring

1:08:01I would say but it takes a lot of

1:08:04learning and I think you're pretty much

1:08:06the way you are explaining is pretty

1:08:08good

1:08:10>> and I'd like to say thank you as well

1:08:11and maybe throw one more thing up uh

1:08:14like sure the year before they were

1:08:16going to require us to allow like

1:08:19civilian

1:08:21crash traffic crash reconstructionist

1:08:24and stuff like that. I'd just be curious

1:08:25about how that has actually affected us

1:08:27because we weren't sure if that's

1:08:30actually happening and any of those

1:08:32other bills that we were concerned about

1:08:34that actually did pass. Were there any

1:08:36negative effects or how how did that end

1:08:39up? because then that can give us

1:08:40speaking points into the future reaching

1:08:42out to our legislators about what

1:08:44happened in the past and how how it

1:08:45affected us and that gives us a little

1:08:47bit more um credibility moving forward.

1:08:50>> Okay. Thank you. Any final questions or

1:08:54comments before we move to the next

1:08:56item?

1:08:58>> Final question. uh the changes in SNAP

1:09:02um also impacts the school program,

1:09:07right?

1:09:09Do you know how that impacts us? Well, I

1:09:11mean at county level, yes, it impacts

1:09:14it, but well, the the school meal

1:09:16program is is distributed through the

1:09:18county,

1:09:19>> right?

1:09:20>> So,

1:09:22in in theory, I suppose if there's

1:09:24overpayments on that front, it would

1:09:27probably come from

1:09:30to be out in in sales tax and how that's

1:09:33applied in the same way. Um, I haven't

1:09:36looked into that specifically, but I'm

1:09:38I'm happy to to try and dig into there's

1:09:41any unique impacts that that come from

1:09:43school side.

1:09:47>> I think that's it. Thank you very much.

1:09:50>> Okay. Thank you both. Really appreciate

1:09:51it. We're going to be moving on to item

1:09:53two, Diaz in Bravo. This is going to be

1:09:55a red redevelopment discussion with

1:09:57council. It will be led by Jelle

1:09:59Rodriguez, our deputy town manager. It

1:10:02will include Tiffany McNeel and Michelle

1:10:04Steig and Genie Hooks as well. So, we're

1:10:07going to crowd the table a little bit.

1:10:09Get cozy.

1:10:12>> This morning, clearly a team effort for

1:10:15sure.

1:10:38Okay. Well, uh, good evening, council.

1:10:40Um, I will kick us off with this red

1:10:43redevelopment, uh, conversation. This is

1:10:46the topic that was left pending from the

1:10:49retreat that um we had a few weeks ago

1:10:52and we decided to just postpone this one

1:10:56to be revisited later and and this is

1:10:59what we're going to do tonight. So the

1:11:02the conversation today the intent is to

1:11:05level set where we are for some time. We

1:11:09have been hearing we are nearing bailed

1:11:12out. We are at the point of

1:11:14redevelopment and the conversation

1:11:17tonight is going to help us understand

1:11:18exactly where we are so that we make

1:11:21sure that we are all on the same page

1:11:23and is going to help us to define what

1:11:25the future brings for us. Um, now how

1:11:29about

1:11:30redevelopment? We're going to level set

1:11:32into what that is so that we can all

1:11:35speak essentially the same terms as we

1:11:38continue to move forward. Um, at the at

1:11:42the end of the the presentation today, I

1:11:44hope that we will feel more um clear and

1:11:47level set having a greater understanding

1:11:49as to where we are. This presentation

1:11:52will have about uh 13 to 14 slides. So I

1:11:56will request that we wait for questions

1:11:58until the end. Um so that will be great.

1:12:02So on this slide that you have in front

1:12:05um let's first focus on the definition

1:12:08of redevelopment.

1:12:10And the definition that will essentially

1:12:13shed light into how we use this term as

1:12:15we continue in the presentation is that

1:12:17red development. It is the development

1:12:19or improvement of an area that was

1:12:22developed at some time in the past for

1:12:24uses that have become outdated as a

1:12:27result of changing social and market

1:12:29conditions. So that's the the

1:12:32essentially what we're going to focus on

1:12:35as we continue. Now, there's four

1:12:37metrics that I would like to highlight

1:12:40at the beginning and staff will go into

1:12:43more details into what this means. Land

1:12:45supply is definitely tightening. We have

1:12:48940 acres that remain for development or

1:12:52redevelopment and that 940 acres is

1:12:55combined and that equates to about 16%

1:12:58of the corporate uh limits.

1:13:02Non-residentidential opportunity exceeds

1:13:04the residential opportunities that we

1:13:06have. Out of the 940 acres, 625 acres

1:13:10are nonresidential.

1:13:13The commercial property represents 54%

1:13:16of our tax base and that equates to 5.2

1:13:20billion of assessed value. And our

1:13:22residential um is at 46% and that

1:13:26equates to 4.4 billion of assessed

1:13:28value. And Genie will go into more

1:13:30details into that as we go further into

1:13:33the presentation. And our land use plan

1:13:35is projecting that our population will

1:13:38reach about 47,000 by 2030. At this

1:13:41time, we all agree that the timeline is

1:13:45ambitious because 2030 uh it it's kind

1:13:49of pretty close. The timeline is

1:13:51ambitious, but we uh also believe that

1:13:54that number could be reached. Maybe not

1:13:56by 2030, maybe a little later, but the

1:13:5947,000 is not unattainable.

1:14:03Um, what are some of the takeaways that

1:14:05we hope

1:14:08that we can understand? Uh, as we

1:14:11continue in the presentation,

1:14:13Morrisville remaining opportunity is

1:14:15meaningful but finite. Land supply is

1:14:18really tightening and projects are

1:14:21smaller and definitely a lot more

1:14:23complex. Um, number two, commercial

1:14:26value is central to fiscal resilience.

1:14:29And you will see as we move along that

1:14:31commercial property is the fiscal engine

1:14:34contributing 54% of our tax base.

1:14:38Redevelopment is a proven path to value

1:14:41creation and that's very true for us.

1:14:45and site readiness is a competitive

1:14:47differentiator especially for economic

1:14:50development recruitment and Tiffany will

1:14:52go into more details about that. Um with

1:14:55that I would like to turn it over to

1:14:57Michelle who is going to go a little bit

1:15:00deeper into what do we really have

1:15:02available.

1:15:05>> All right. Thank you Jazelle. Um I'm

1:15:07going to dive into um some of the

1:15:10numbers. So, we took a look at the town

1:15:13really um in relation to where we are

1:15:16with respect to buildout. Um and we put

1:15:19that into two categories, residential

1:15:21and non-residential. And you could see

1:15:23that we broke it up even then further

1:15:25between vacant land and what we're

1:15:28calling um redevelopment potential. Um

1:15:32to follow up on what Jazelle said about

1:15:35redevelopment, this is land that we are

1:15:38seeing as ripe for redevelopment. So

1:15:41with that definition of redevelopment,

1:15:43um Morrisville historically had a lot of

1:15:46farmland. Converting that farmland into

1:15:48two or 300 home subdivision was

1:15:51redevelopment. Um so when we looked at

1:15:54the map, we looked at kind of those

1:15:56obvious examples of where um the land

1:16:00use plan, the zoning um didn't ali align

1:16:03with the land use. For example, there

1:16:05might be a single family home sitting on

1:16:08a number of acres that was zoned

1:16:10commercially. Um so we took a very

1:16:13conservative look at this and and we're

1:16:15considering that um both these these

1:16:18categories together really um

1:16:20representing what we have left until we

1:16:22reach full buildout um in that regard.

1:16:26So again we're looking at approximately

1:16:28940 acres um with 625 of that being

1:16:33non-residential development and 315

1:16:36being residential development.

1:16:39For purposes of this exercise, we did um

1:16:42include potential multifamily sites in

1:16:45the non-residential category because

1:16:48that is how those properties are taxed

1:16:51and this is really being done um for

1:16:54purposes of informing a budgetary

1:16:55discussion.

1:16:58Also wanted to note that because of the

1:17:01purpose and again this is really just to

1:17:03inform that discussion about budget and

1:17:05future budget impacts um a number of

1:17:08properties were excluded. So if we had

1:17:11properties that were already under

1:17:12development spark phase one of some of

1:17:14our larger multif family developments we

1:17:17did not include those and we did not

1:17:19include properties that we anticipate

1:17:22will be um developed with um taxexempt

1:17:26uses. So the park on Watkins Road,

1:17:29future Markham Park, the airport

1:17:31boulevard substation, the new middle

1:17:34school, the HSNC expansion. Um those

1:17:38projects are not reflected in these

1:17:40numbers.

1:17:43Can we go to the next slide?

1:17:52Um, so again, this is I think um, Deputy

1:17:56Manager Rodriguez used the term level

1:17:58setting, really trying to level set just

1:18:00where we're at today. Um, looking at how

1:18:03properties being utilized, what's highly

1:18:05underutilized. We did also take a look

1:18:07at where we're starting to see um, some

1:18:10people pick up and assemble some

1:18:12properties. Um, we looked at alignment

1:18:16with zoning, alignment with the land use

1:18:18plan, and also when we did the initial

1:18:21GIS exercise, we saw a lot of properties

1:18:24come back, particularly in the vacant

1:18:25category that were really HOA property

1:18:27that would never be built or that were

1:18:30set aside for parkland and those sorts

1:18:32of things. So um we excluded those from

1:18:35the analysis and and did do a little bit

1:18:37of a a lot by lot um evaluation and

1:18:40clean up of that data based on some of

1:18:42those things.

1:18:48So again, uh this is a copy of the map

1:18:50exercise that we went through and again

1:18:52what it does um is it level sets to just

1:18:55um try and quantify where we are in

1:18:58relation to build out um just to provide

1:19:01context for a discussion. It does not

1:19:04provide exact numbers. These are

1:19:06estimates. It is not intended for

1:19:09partial bypartial discussion of or

1:19:11evaluation of what we may see going

1:19:13where. that is what your land use plan

1:19:16is really for. Um and it does not

1:19:18account for uh future uh conditions or

1:19:21changes.

1:19:25Go to the this next slide um shows a

1:19:28little bit of um what we're seeing in

1:19:31the residential area. So just wanted to

1:19:33highlight um some of the sites um that

1:19:36you're seeing on the map. Um, so in

1:19:38terms of some significant redevelopment

1:19:41opportun or development opportunities

1:19:42that you still have left, um, there's

1:19:45some two parcels on Louis Stevens that

1:19:47are about 52 acres combined. Um, there's

1:19:51some property on K Creek Road. We expect

1:19:54the people that live on on those lots

1:19:56will probably live out the remainder of

1:19:58their lives there, but eventually um,

1:20:00see that about 27 acres um, being

1:20:03redeveloped at some point in the future.

1:20:05You have the Hamlet development um that

1:20:08I know council has some familiarity

1:20:09with. Um you have the Holly Creek Road

1:20:12area which is kind of a unique single

1:20:14family um neighborhood in Morrisville,

1:20:17but um there is a developer that has

1:20:20picked up a large number of those

1:20:21parcels and is continuing to purchase

1:20:23and start to combine those. And then

1:20:26another unique area in town um the

1:20:28Family Farm Road area kind of back

1:20:31behind Liberty Rose and Justice Walk. Um

1:20:34that area has always been challenged

1:20:36with utilities. It does not have

1:20:38utilities. Um but at some point in time,

1:20:40it's going to make sense for someone to

1:20:42pick up a cost to extend water and sewer

1:20:44into that area. Um and then on the north

1:20:48side of the village of the town, you're

1:20:50also uh Mason Farms, Everett Fields

1:20:52area. There are um quite a few vacant

1:20:55parcels in that area.

1:20:57All up and down Church Street, you are

1:20:59starting to see um people pick up and

1:21:02assemble different sites. So, we're

1:21:03expecting to see a number of five 10 lot

1:21:06subdivisions occurring really up and

1:21:08down Church Street. And then there are

1:21:09just various other properties

1:21:15on the nonresidential end. Um the

1:21:19significant hits that are yet to come,

1:21:20TOD East, to West, to South I think

1:21:24you're aware of all those as well as

1:21:25Town Center and the McCrimman extension.

1:21:29In terms of the Mcrimman extension,

1:21:31there are still about 26 acres left um

1:21:35on the Spark site that are unaccounted

1:21:37for. And in addition to that, probably

1:21:40about another 35 acres left um to be

1:21:43developed. Those are mostly south of the

1:21:46Wake Competition Center going all the

1:21:48way down to aviation.

1:21:51And then you can see we have a number of

1:21:52vacant properties in the Slater Road

1:21:54Airport Boulevard area. some vacant

1:21:56property um along Transair Drive. Um if

1:22:00you're going um along Airport Boulevard

1:22:03or on NC54 between Airport and Mccrimin,

1:22:06particularly on the west side of the

1:22:07road, there's still a lot of opportunity

1:22:09along there. Some opportunity on Davis.

1:22:13Um if you look across from Wegman's,

1:22:15there's some vacant property there. We

1:22:17have some property back behind Bethany

1:22:18Village. We still have an out lot

1:22:20available at Grace Park.

1:22:22again just various other opportunities

1:22:24as well.

1:22:31So all that being said, again we're at

1:22:34about 940 acres is what we're estimating

1:22:37before we reach buildout. Again, that

1:22:39includes all of those tax exempt

1:22:41parcels. Um and with 625 acres of

1:22:46non-residential and 315 acres of

1:22:48residential. So you're seeing um about

1:22:51two times more non-residential than

1:22:53residential opportunity moving forward.

1:22:55And that really aligns with what we've

1:22:57seen in the last uh few years with more

1:22:59non-residential projects um coming in.

1:23:03Um in terms of future growth, um we do

1:23:07expect to continue to see new

1:23:08development for some time. Um we've also

1:23:11started to see a lot of reinvestment.

1:23:14That reinvestment is not included in

1:23:16these numbers. I think that is something

1:23:17that Genie is going to hit on. But if

1:23:19you look at um properties like Southport

1:23:22Business Park and East Ridge, you're

1:23:24seeing a lot of reinvestment and

1:23:25renovation of existing buildings as

1:23:27well. And we expect that trend to

1:23:29continue. Um we do think projects are

1:23:32going to continue to get smaller, but

1:23:34again, you have a lot of big hits that

1:23:37are yet to come. If you just look at

1:23:38TOD, that's about 170 acres combined

1:23:42between TOD East, TOD West, and TOD

1:23:46South. Um, so each of those as they come

1:23:49online, um, will be a big hit. Um, as

1:23:52well as Town Center. And we expect those

1:23:55developments to be built out in phases.

1:23:57So it won't just be TOD West and you get

1:24:00a big influx. You're probably looking at

1:24:03phases with each of those areas being

1:24:05built out.

1:24:07Um, so that being said, I'm going to

1:24:10hand it over, I believe, to Jeie and

1:24:12then, um, Tiffany. They're going to talk

1:24:15about what all this means in terms of

1:24:17impact on economic development and tax

1:24:19base.

1:24:20>> All right, let's go and talk to you a

1:24:22little bit about why it matters with the

1:24:24tax base and and when we say commercial

1:24:27is really our fiscal engine moving

1:24:30forward, um, it's really always been in

1:24:33Morrisville's history, our fiscal

1:24:35engine. Um, we're the envy, I'll say

1:24:38this with a lot of pride,

1:24:40we are the envy of many, many

1:24:43municipalities around us because of our

1:24:44tax base mix. Um, when you're looking at

1:24:4854% commercial tax base and 46

1:24:52residential, you have a very good

1:24:54diverse portfolio for your economic

1:24:57engine. And when you consider the mix of

1:25:00what the commercial really represents,

1:25:03uh, you've done a lot through land use

1:25:05planning that has contributed over the

1:25:08many years that I've been in just

1:25:10Morrisville and seen how it's grown and

1:25:12changed. you have managed to hold on to.

1:25:15Even in the years that we were booming

1:25:17and Breen Road was coming through with a

1:25:19thousand houses and Weston Estates was

1:25:21coming through with the the large scale

1:25:24houses that they have, you still manage

1:25:26to hang on to what I believe is the the

1:25:29powerhouse and that is your tax base and

1:25:32commercial that a lot of municipalities

1:25:34are quite jealous of because it creates

1:25:36stability.

1:25:38When the housing market dips and we

1:25:40experienced that fluctuation before in

1:25:42our past, your commercial tax base is

1:25:45your steady component. When we went

1:25:48through um the recession in 2010, uh we

1:25:53were stable because we were redeveloping

1:25:56the site that was um bare into Park West

1:26:00and we went through that recession that

1:26:03was hurting other very harmful to other

1:26:05municipalities for the sake of our

1:26:07commercial aspect was growing. Some of

1:26:10the factors when I talk to um DFI for

1:26:13example about how do we maintain and

1:26:16sustain this or when I talk to our

1:26:18financial advisors and our credit rating

1:26:20agencies, they call out our our ability

1:26:23to be able to recognize and and

1:26:26visualize the future and be able to plan

1:26:29and show developers in our in our

1:26:32community or even interested developers

1:26:34that we have value here. And and I've

1:26:38heard you all I think uh council member

1:26:40Johnson has said this multiple times. We

1:26:43have benefited and continue to benefit

1:26:45into the future from our proximity and

1:26:49because we're able to show the community

1:26:52investment that gets this taxbased

1:26:55component mix that we have right now.

1:26:58So, we're strong for reasons of

1:27:00decisions, of visions of the past, the

1:27:02visions that we have now that are going

1:27:04to carry us well into the future, I

1:27:07believe, as we transition and continue

1:27:10to transition because we've been doing

1:27:12that. As Michelle says, we've already

1:27:14been experiencing redevelopment

1:27:16projects. We just didn't really see it

1:27:19in that as that. But when you change a

1:27:21farm to something that's commercial

1:27:24andor multi-use housing or single family

1:27:27housing, we've been migrating

1:27:29redevelopment all along.

1:27:32>> Sir,

1:27:33>> yeah, I got two questions. U when you

1:27:35say residential is

1:27:38go back to acreage slide.

1:27:40>> Acreage.

1:27:46>> Um yeah. So 315 right acres for

1:27:51residential acreage.

1:27:54Out of that what is it currently zone?

1:27:56Do we have like splits of it like you

1:27:59know 100 acres is lower density or you

1:28:03know commercial because um apartments

1:28:07can go under that. So did we like do a

1:28:11splits of that?

1:28:13>> Sure. So, I'll say anything that we

1:28:16thought would fall in the multifamily

1:28:19category was put under non-residential.

1:28:22>> Okay.

1:28:23>> All right.

1:28:24>> So, uh just to give you some context in

1:28:27your commercial tax base, remember um

1:28:30taxbased components, the split really is

1:28:33a signal to you on really where the

1:28:36burden's falling on providing services,

1:28:39that tax burden. And in Morsville, it's

1:28:42predominantly been the tax burden. In a

1:28:44large large part, it's really being

1:28:46carried in part by your commercial

1:28:48development. And so, you're you're able

1:28:50to effectively balance that burden

1:28:52because why, mayor, I've I've heard you

1:28:55say this before, is that you're not

1:28:58providing the exact same level of

1:28:59services to commercial properties in the

1:29:02same way that you are families or or

1:29:04housing or residential.

1:29:07Apartments fall in commercial for the

1:29:09same very reason. They're corporate.

1:29:11They are residents, so they do use our

1:29:13parks. But one very key factor is they

1:29:16don't have solid waste. That tax rate is

1:29:20actually paying for solid waste for

1:29:22single family homes, town homes, and

1:29:24condos.

1:29:26It's they're not receiving the same

1:29:28service in apartments because we don't

1:29:30pay or the tax base does not pay for

1:29:33that solid waste piece in apartments.

1:29:35They are corporately owned. So there's a

1:29:37benefit there. Even though that your tax

1:29:39base component for apartments in

1:29:42commercial represents really 30% of that

1:29:45value is coming from apartments, it's

1:29:47not the largest component. Your largest

1:29:50component is coming from your typical

1:29:53corporate, your industrial and your

1:29:56other flex warehouse spaces which we

1:29:58have. We have traditionally since the

1:30:0280s been building that stock that has

1:30:06been paying us back in dividends as

1:30:08we've been moving forward.

1:30:10Uh something that I would also say um

1:30:13commercial because it is our fiscal

1:30:16engine that we can rely on. It's allowed

1:30:18Morrisville in the time I've been here

1:30:21for you to maintain one of the lowest

1:30:24tax rates. So I went back and looked. We

1:30:26have predominantly been in the the

1:30:28bottom three in our tax rate for many

1:30:31years and the reason being is you have

1:30:34been leveraging your well diverse mix of

1:30:38tax base value and so I keep um focusing

1:30:41on how lucky and fortunate we are but

1:30:44that is that we should preserve that

1:30:46preserve what we already have and you've

1:30:48made great investments by investing in

1:30:50Tiffany or a team in an economic

1:30:52development and the planning department

1:30:54giving them additional resour resources

1:30:56because they're going to be able to um

1:30:58hang on to that, value it, and work with

1:31:01folks to identify how we're investing in

1:31:04the community that that we can show and

1:31:06demonstrate and bring people in and

1:31:08attract them to Morrisville to continue

1:31:11to invest new development because we

1:31:14still have space, but also to reinvest,

1:31:17and we're going to talk about that in a

1:31:19minute. That's been really key for

1:31:21Marsel and just how much value that

1:31:23we've been able to gain in our tax base

1:31:25as a result of people wanting to stay

1:31:27here.

1:31:31Okay.

1:31:39So we think about um I'm going to talk a

1:31:42little bit about econom from an economic

1:31:44development perspective about our

1:31:46ability to recruit. So market

1:31:48competitive competitiveness and as it

1:31:51relates to redevelopment

1:31:53um looking at our real estate um demands

1:31:58in 2025 44% of the projects that were

1:32:01received by in the state of North

1:32:03Carolina so that's by economic

1:32:04development partnership were lost um out

1:32:07of state out of North Carolina due to

1:32:09lack of build available buildings and so

1:32:13um that's not saying that we're not able

1:32:14to compete but it's just important to

1:32:16know that um the way economic

1:32:19recruitment is going that it's becoming

1:32:22more sight sensitive and more scale

1:32:24sensitive and that's important to note.

1:32:27You're starting to see um larger

1:32:29footprints particularly in advanced

1:32:31manufacturing and life science projects.

1:32:34They're requiring larger scale um and

1:32:36some de and development ready sites.

1:32:40Site readiness continues to be um

1:32:42extremely important. Um, I'm very proud

1:32:45to say that particularly in Morrisville,

1:32:47we have exceptional utilities. Um, we

1:32:51have a lot of sites that are up and

1:32:52ready to go. That's been a way that

1:32:54we've been able to be very

1:32:56competitiveness and competitive and our

1:32:59ability um to have increased speed of

1:33:01market. That's that's something that is

1:33:04setting us apart from others.

1:33:06Um, but I want to take a step back um,

1:33:10just before I get into a little bit of

1:33:11these real estate trends and just note

1:33:13that while buildings and sites are

1:33:16extremely important in order for us to

1:33:19compete, you know, that's not the only

1:33:21deciding factor. It's workforce, it's

1:33:23talent, it's site, it's location, it's

1:33:26speed to market, it's um, our ability to

1:33:29help reduce the risk to companies um,

1:33:32and our ability to work closely with the

1:33:34companies. So all of those things are

1:33:35important and as as we continue to

1:33:38recruit and look for new investment and

1:33:40continue to work with our existing

1:33:42businesses, this is becoming more and

1:33:44more extremely important.

1:33:47Um and continuing on to discuss just our

1:33:50real estate trends that we're seeing

1:33:52today. Um when we think about from a

1:33:55site perspective, the majority that

1:33:58we're seeing a lot of projects look for

1:34:00sites that are 21 to 100 acres. So those

1:34:04are um somewhat larger sites. And then

1:34:06from uh real estate demand interior,

1:34:09just looking at building space, we're

1:34:11seeing about 100,000 square feet to

1:34:14300,000 square feet in advanced

1:34:16manufacturing life sciences um across

1:34:18the board.

1:34:20And from a looking at ceiling height,

1:34:23you're looking at an average of a 27

1:34:25foot clear with other um requirements

1:34:28upward of 30 ft clear height.

1:34:38So think about economic development

1:34:40considerations for Morrisville in our

1:34:43next phase of growth. So, we're going to

1:34:45continue to um focus on recruitment

1:34:50and new investment while recognizing

1:34:52that sites and buildings and

1:34:53infrastructure requirements can

1:34:55increasingly influence the scale and

1:34:56type of projects. So, we're not we're

1:34:59continuing to focus on those target

1:35:01industries. Our target industries

1:35:03continue to be advanced manufacturing,

1:35:05life sciences and pharmaceuticals,

1:35:08um technology, as well as energy and

1:35:11professional and business services. It's

1:35:13not saying that we're not going to focus

1:35:14on those things. It's just saying that

1:35:16as the market adjusts, we have to be

1:35:20more intentional about the projects and

1:35:22make sure they align and they fit with

1:35:24Morrisville as we seek to recruit

1:35:26projects.

1:35:27And I think um Jeannie did a good job

1:35:30kind of alluding to this. New investment

1:35:32is important, but we also want to make

1:35:35sure that we intentionally continue to

1:35:37focus on the companies that we already

1:35:39have here. Um, that's one thing that I I

1:35:42love about Morrisville. We are we are

1:35:44built to scale. Even though we do have

1:35:46um as we talk about redevelopment and we

1:35:49talk about inventory, looking at

1:35:51inventory, if you think about let's say

1:35:53Southport,

1:35:54Southport Innovation Center has some

1:35:57larger spaces for R&D labs, but if you

1:36:00go to Pathway, you have available space

1:36:03that's available for these companies to

1:36:05grow. So that's one thing we want to

1:36:07continue to work with our existing

1:36:10industry so that we can identify their

1:36:13needs early on. That's why business

1:36:15engagement is extremely important. Going

1:36:17out meeting with the existing industry,

1:36:19knowing what their needs are um up front

1:36:23and close. Um I work very closely with

1:36:26Michelle and her team. We had some

1:36:28existing industry visits. um we we

1:36:30continue to have them to determine what

1:36:32those needs are early on so that we can

1:36:34identify additional space or if there

1:36:36may be zoning concerns so that we can

1:36:39help early on and make sure we can get

1:36:41ahead pro ahead of problems so they can

1:36:44have time to grow their business. So

1:36:46it's really important to not only invest

1:36:48in time and commitment into new

1:36:51investment but also into your existing

1:36:53industry.

1:36:55Um

1:36:57and then and that's that's the important

1:36:59of when we think about future economic

1:37:01opportunities. I think it's really

1:37:04important to um as we consider our

1:37:06development patterns, we want to support

1:37:09that balance of employment, commercial

1:37:11activity and business opportunities that

1:37:13become available as we identify um you

1:37:15know limited land.

1:37:20Okay. So, I absolutely love this slide

1:37:23[laughter]

1:37:24because I'm going to use this in the

1:37:26next credit rating. Uh, our credit

1:37:29rating agencies, they they love to um

1:37:32they have their measures and their

1:37:33measures are intentional because what

1:37:35they're trying to do when we borrow is

1:37:38to make sure that we can sustain

1:37:39ourselves, that we're fiscally solvent,

1:37:41not for the year that we're borrowing,

1:37:43but well beyond that. And when I'm able

1:37:46to provide and I have actually used

1:37:48Southport as the very example with

1:37:50credit rating agencies to demonstrate

1:37:53how um organizations that have been here

1:37:55for ages have reinvested in Morsel.

1:37:59They're committed to Morsel and that's

1:38:00able we're able to demonstrate our

1:38:02ability to afford our future when we

1:38:06have folks like this that are our older

1:38:08stock. Uh I think most of these are our

1:38:11older stock that have already

1:38:13demonstrated just between the year 2020

1:38:15to now uh greater than $60 million of

1:38:18capital investment that increased our

1:38:20tax base by that much and

1:38:24it has doubled in size for Southport and

1:38:27I think a little bit of that I think was

1:38:29some expansion as well. Um, I believe

1:38:32there was a an additional land site that

1:38:34they may have purchased in 2020 also

1:38:37that could be wrapped in here, but the

1:38:39majority of it was in the fact that they

1:38:41were recognizing that they needed to

1:38:43reposition themselves because the market

1:38:46was changing. And I think that's that's

1:38:49innovative. It's it's being committed to

1:38:53Morrisville. But perhaps what they saw

1:38:55was also Morrisville's commitment to

1:38:58support them to make sure that they were

1:39:02able to do as Tiffany was alluding is

1:39:04making sure that if they did do an upfit

1:39:07or if they did do some other site plan

1:39:10submitt to expand that we're able to

1:39:12move things through that that's time is

1:39:14money to to folks like this to get that

1:39:17reinvestment. They're working on the

1:39:18clock when they go to banks uh to be

1:39:21able to borrow this capital to to put

1:39:23this these expansions or these uh

1:39:26enhancements on the ground quickly so

1:39:28they can start realizing their

1:39:30investment the return on their

1:39:32investment. Um, Eastridge I think is

1:39:34another one very similar to Southport

1:39:37where they have uh expanded they

1:39:39recognized uh the market was shifting

1:39:42and so they've re started to reimagine

1:39:44themselves and that gave them the

1:39:46ability to maximize their investment of

1:39:50greater what I've been able to I think

1:39:52we've been able to find was at least

1:39:54right now greater than 10 million. They

1:39:56could have done more than that, but

1:39:57that's all I was able to qualify in some

1:40:00um searches. But that's another one

1:40:03that's been here, these have been here

1:40:05since the 80s, some of them in the early

1:40:0890s, and they've reinvented themselves.

1:40:11And this is the prime example of what

1:40:14we're going to see in our future. And it

1:40:16just shows the impact of how that

1:40:18creates some sustainability. And this is

1:40:21a perfect example to use when we stand

1:40:23up in front of our credit rating

1:40:25agencies that it's not just about the

1:40:28new development growth that that we

1:40:30still are able to substantiate to to

1:40:32those folks that we're going to continue

1:40:34to have some new development, but we're

1:40:36also able to substantiate um clear

1:40:38examples um quantifiable examples of how

1:40:43we're able to continue growing through

1:40:45redevelopment.

1:40:56Okay. So, this one's maybe looking

1:40:58forward and and in talking with um

1:41:01organizations like DFI when we had um

1:41:06COVID come through, we started being

1:41:08concerned about office u vacancies in

1:41:12that area. We we started talking about

1:41:14what are some of the ways in which we

1:41:15can influence

1:41:17um outcomes. One of the ways that I

1:41:21believe in Morrisville and how how smart

1:41:25they have been to invest in folks like

1:41:27Michelle and Tiffany is we've done very

1:41:31proactive things like um pulling

1:41:35together marketing strategies going out

1:41:37and and showcasing who we are, what is

1:41:40our stock, where can we um retap uh

1:41:43existing things or create new

1:41:46opportunities. But another key piece

1:41:49when if you're in a developer's shoe or

1:41:52even an owner's shoe is smaller plans.

1:41:56And why is that important? Because

1:42:00developers are able to or owners are

1:42:02able to see your vision. They're able to

1:42:05see through your eyes how confident you

1:42:09are in what your vision is for

1:42:11Morrisville's future. And that gives

1:42:14them something very substantial to be

1:42:16able to build on to to dream and vision

1:42:19and

1:42:21it sparks energy back in our community

1:42:24when we were going down the path with

1:42:26Town Center 10 years ago. We were all

1:42:29sitting around the table and we said if

1:42:33we started with phase one, if we

1:42:36assemble the land, it gives us an

1:42:38opportunity to do a public private uh

1:42:40partnership. if we build it phase one,

1:42:44they will come. We will start the

1:42:46energy. And that's really what's

1:42:49happening now with um actually getting

1:42:5210 years later, we're we're we've got a

1:42:56parking garage that's that you could see

1:42:58the dream is coming alive.

1:43:02Other people are seeing that. She's able

1:43:04to market that. People are seeing the

1:43:07ability for us to provide support

1:43:10entertainment. They see us adding

1:43:12sidewalks. They see us improving traffic

1:43:16um congestion. They see us investing in

1:43:19Morrisville. They're going to continue

1:43:21to come and invest in Morrisville. So,

1:43:23if you build it, if you offer

1:43:26opportunities to move through processes

1:43:29and leverage our proximity, we'll

1:43:31continue to have opportunities in the

1:43:33future. And these three plans when when

1:43:36we're looking Byron and I are looking at

1:43:38future revenue, these are very critical

1:43:42to us being able to say at least we can

1:43:45see even with the appeals impact we

1:43:48could potentially substantiate continue

1:43:49to grow at least at 2% or plus. Now in

1:43:53years past, I'll tell you in the boom

1:43:55days we were probably above 4% and then

1:43:59we averaged out at 3% at some point. our

1:44:02tax base is much larger and that that

1:44:05percentage growth is is larger as effect

1:44:07as our tax base has grown. Uh but this

1:44:11is a this is where we're able to say we

1:44:15can sustain ourselves in our long range

1:44:17picture at this time. It's not growing

1:44:20it's not growing like it used to. It's

1:44:23different and we have to recognize that

1:44:26residential is going to be smaller and

1:44:27slower as Michelle said, but we at least

1:44:30see and have the ability to project

1:44:32forward uh in in the short term, long

1:44:34term uh as as we look ahead.

1:44:39Um,

1:44:42other things that we've benefited from

1:44:44in these processes as we as we project

1:44:47out um are being able to have and

1:44:50maintain those those diverse uses across

1:44:53Marsville, but being able to help other

1:44:56entities respond to how the market's

1:44:59shifting and changing. So as Eastridge,

1:45:02I believe Southport, they they've all

1:45:05responded and they brought forward upfit

1:45:08changes that they've maximized u

1:45:11creating ready set lab sites, I guess,

1:45:14uh is what you would I would call them.

1:45:16I'm sure you all call them something a

1:45:18little different. [laughter]

1:45:20But this upfit

1:45:22um scenario or this upfit data that I've

1:45:26been looking at is is also really

1:45:29encouraging. The shifting to upfits

1:45:32we've seen since 2021

1:45:35and looking at the permit data a

1:45:37significant growth of 12% in upfit

1:45:42u related permits. So usually I've been

1:45:45all these years paying attention to new

1:45:47permits, new residential, new

1:45:49commercial. That's what I've been

1:45:50tracking. But I'm now learning, thanks

1:45:52to Shandandy and Michelle and Tiffany,

1:45:56we need to also be paying attention to

1:45:58how upfits permits are growing and

1:46:00changing because that's a key indicator

1:46:02of redevelopment. And so I'm I'm here to

1:46:05say that's a positive indicator, a

1:46:08positive trend. Now, does that mean that

1:46:1010 plus years from now that we would

1:46:12still be sustaining uh this level of

1:46:14growth? No. I think we'll still be going

1:46:16through potentially another type of

1:46:17shift in how we develop, but we would be

1:46:20responsive and proactive in a in being

1:46:23able to secure and be fiscally

1:46:26responsible as we project forward. And

1:46:29it starts with land use. It starts with

1:46:33how economic development takes care uh

1:46:36in preserving what we have. And then

1:46:38just good thoughtful budgeting.

1:46:45Um when you

1:46:48when you talk about shared like you know

1:46:51redevelopment and you have specified

1:46:53Southport and other areas

1:46:56what is your vision like are we

1:46:58basically

1:47:00there it's only a one-story building so

1:47:03you're thinking that they will demolish

1:47:05and make like a fourstory buildings

1:47:07there or because I'm I'm trying to

1:47:10envision because obviously they can

1:47:14utilize a lot of space there. All most

1:47:16of the Southwood is just a one-story

1:47:18building. Um so I just wanted to know

1:47:20what

1:47:21>> you want to

1:47:22>> how how is the zoning going to promote

1:47:24that or how how do we go about it?

1:47:27>> Yeah, what we've already seen in those

1:47:29areas is just renovation of the existing

1:47:32buildings that are out there. So um

1:47:36we've had a couple examples of tearowns

1:47:38and rebuilds. I think the town is a ways

1:47:41away from that being the norm. Um, but

1:47:45really gutting and investing a lot of

1:47:48money in existing buildings. Um, and as

1:47:53Jeannie indicated, that's happened um at

1:47:55several sites, Southport, Eastridge, and

1:47:58some others. Um, so that's upgrading the

1:48:02property, the site, the parking lot, the

1:48:04landscaping, gutting the insides of the

1:48:07building, putting in new equipment for

1:48:09new users, um, and really overhauling

1:48:12some of our larger campuses. Um, and

1:48:15that has helped them to attract some

1:48:17great new tenants as well.

1:48:20>> Yeah. But overall, the square footage is

1:48:23not increasing, right?

1:48:25>> We are not seeing building additions.

1:48:27We're not seeing

1:48:29what it is. So from a economic

1:48:31standpoint of view the I was thinking a

1:48:34redevelopment is started you know if it

1:48:37is 100,000 now you're putting 200,000 so

1:48:40that's a different dollar amount that

1:48:42comes in and I have seen Southwood they

1:48:44have done a lot of renovation

1:48:46>> but do you anticipate in the next 10

1:48:49years [snorts]

1:48:50that space you have to go up

1:48:52>> and I think um do does these buildings

1:48:56support two story or it's pretty much

1:48:59from town to town.

1:49:02>> Yeah, I I'll echo what Genie said. I

1:49:04don't know for sure, but I doubt it. Um

1:49:06I think you're still at least several

1:49:09years off before you're seeing a lot of

1:49:11what you're talking about. It's not that

1:49:12that won't come. Um and I think I

1:49:15referenced the X Pedex site at retreat.

1:49:18That is one site where we are seeing,

1:49:21you know, demolition of a substantial

1:49:24existing building being replaced with

1:49:27other uses. Um, but I I think it's still

1:49:30going to be a while before that becomes

1:49:32the norm. It eventually will.

1:49:34>> The movie theater was

1:49:36>> Yeah, correct.

1:49:37>> I want to roll back real quick just to

1:49:39the slide before this. I just want to

1:49:42call something out.

1:49:45So, I thought it was really interesting.

1:49:47You know, Primary Park's huge. It's over

1:49:49300,000 square feet, I think, and it has

1:49:52like three plus actual owners when you

1:49:55put it all together. I picked this

1:49:57corridor on the original Bremer Park

1:50:00Drive for a reason because it's the

1:50:01oldest stock in Morrisville. Um, I

1:50:04thought it was really interesting. While

1:50:06I can qualify uh in some research of

1:50:09greater than 35 million in upfits and

1:50:12rens since 2020, they've only increased

1:50:1614%. So it may be that their type of

1:50:20investment is more on the side of maybe

1:50:22equipment because we've seen equipment

1:50:24growing but exterior wise reimagining

1:50:29yourself to market yourself differently

1:50:31and maybe the different types of uses

1:50:33you see that clearly in Southport. So

1:50:36when I put perimeter park here, we

1:50:38agreed we wanted to put perimeter park

1:50:39here. Focusing on just that, that that

1:50:43seems to me maybe another the next place

1:50:46we we had talked about this last

1:50:48retreat. The next place we might see

1:50:50some energy and that um in that area of

1:50:54so hopefully I would see that percentage

1:50:56increase in its assessed value maybe

1:50:58grow and change. Uh but where we're

1:51:01seeing maybe change in equipment which

1:51:03has been highly impactful um where and

1:51:07and reimagining what they look like on

1:51:09on the outside aesthetically and the

1:51:10amenities that they offer. You're seeing

1:51:12that really in Eastridge and Southport.

1:51:15I'm not sure I see it the same level in

1:51:17perimeter, but maybe I'm wrong.

1:51:20>> Interior. Yeah. I just thought that was

1:51:23quite interesting. But I think it

1:51:24signals to us that's an area for us to

1:51:27pay attention to because other people

1:51:29may be paying attention to that.

1:51:47There you go.

1:51:49Okay.

1:51:51make sure we don't have any questions on

1:51:53the table. So, I'm gonna uh start us off

1:51:56in kind of wrapping us up. You know,

1:51:59tonight's uh really to demonstrate staff

1:52:02does a great deal of work behind the

1:52:04scenes when we bring information and

1:52:07data to the table. Um I'd say our

1:52:09partner that's not here at the table

1:52:11tonight is Rodney Watkins, who's our GIS

1:52:14manager. um he's been supporting us um

1:52:19greatly behind the scenes of trying to

1:52:22help us do this GIS map exercise, but

1:52:25tonight's all about really a first step

1:52:28towards establishing what do we mean

1:52:31when we say redevelopment and all

1:52:33getting kind of on the same page, how we

1:52:36define it, how you define it. Having

1:52:38that shared redevelopment vision is

1:52:40going to be important and that's what

1:52:41we're going to help you moving forward

1:52:43tonight.

1:52:45um finalizing our redevelopment

1:52:48inventory. So, so the team's been behind

1:52:51the scenes really working on what is

1:52:53this um redevelopment

1:52:55u hot zones or hotspots look like and

1:52:58what criteria do we use to to qualify

1:53:01should they or shouldn't they? That's

1:53:03been something that we're working on and

1:53:05continuing to refine. That's a really

1:53:07key step in in our next step processes

1:53:10is the redefining of what we've already

1:53:12internally done

1:53:15identifying from that then with

1:53:18Tiffany's help with council's help with

1:53:20the community's help business

1:53:22community's help even is where should we

1:53:25focusing be focusing our energies and

1:53:27priorities above what we already know

1:53:29based on the small area plans with TOD

1:53:31town center and mcrimic corridor where

1:53:34else should we be focusing our attention

1:53:36and how can we directly or indirectly

1:53:38support that?

1:53:41And that leads us to our next um step is

1:53:44really redefining or refining that

1:53:46toolbox and those marketing strategies,

1:53:48giving um Tiffany and Michelle tools to

1:53:52work with uh to be able to demonstrate

1:53:55and showcase who we are, what do we

1:53:56have, what do we have to work with, and

1:53:58how can we help you get there to to be

1:54:01able to benefit the community.

1:54:03>> Yes, sir.

1:54:06How I understand that redevelopment

1:54:10uh would be

1:54:14property owners

1:54:16uh initiative. How do we cope with that

1:54:20change in zoning?

1:54:22So that's that's

1:54:24>> Do you want to take it just from the

1:54:26land use perspective? And then I think

1:54:28Tiffany, you you've really already hit

1:54:30on that quite a bit about um marketing

1:54:33and reaching out knowing what you have.

1:54:36>> I want to build off of something that

1:54:38Jeanie said about the small area

1:54:40planning because I think another area

1:54:43that's a great example of that is the

1:54:45Mcrimman corridor. We did a small area

1:54:48plan for that corridor. reszone that

1:54:50corridor to implement the

1:54:52recommendations in that plan and we saw

1:54:55immediate investment happen. Um so we

1:54:59can signal what we want um clarity

1:55:04timing um are critical to the

1:55:07development community. So if we can um

1:55:10relay that we have a clear vision that

1:55:13our codes and ordinances are set up to

1:55:15implement that vision that is always a

1:55:18great first step in promoting what we

1:55:20want. Um so that starts um at the very

1:55:23beginning with your land use planning

1:55:25and your zoning. We are um our hands are

1:55:28a little tied with Senate Bill 382 on

1:55:30some of that. Um, but I still think

1:55:32we've been um very successful um in

1:55:36implementing a lot of what our land use

1:55:39plan has called for to date.

1:55:42>> And from a economic development

1:55:44perspective, working with developers

1:55:46after we've reached out to businesses

1:55:47and working with some of our other

1:55:49regional economic development partners,

1:55:50helping them understand what the

1:55:52industry needs and trends are. Um, so

1:55:55they can further know from a development

1:55:58perspective, what are companies looking

1:55:59for when it relates to size? what type

1:56:01of companies are looking to locate and

1:56:03expand here in our community. And it's

1:56:05not I think I I I missed out on it

1:56:07earlier, but it's not just, you know,

1:56:08the existing industry, but it's also our

1:56:11small businesses, our entrepreneurs that

1:56:13can further help contribute to our tax

1:56:15base.

1:56:16One more thing I will add to that is it

1:56:19also one of those things that we have a

1:56:21role in is that speed to market that

1:56:23Tiffany alluded to and that what that

1:56:26means is when a developer has an

1:56:28interest in Morris deal how fast we can

1:56:30get them to the process because for a

1:56:32developer time is money. So how fast can

1:56:35we get into a permitting process and a

1:56:37and a clear example of that was the win

1:56:40that we had about from no artist. We won

1:56:43that project particularly because of

1:56:45that. It was our ability to be able to

1:56:47get them through the process much faster

1:56:50and those are some of the things that we

1:56:52have control of that we are able to

1:56:54offer and secure that potential

1:56:57development and redevelopment in the

1:56:59future.

1:57:01I think we have a few other questions.

1:57:03Um, we have C uh, Council Member

1:57:06Johnson, we have uh, Mayor Pretend

1:57:09Braati. I would like to just let Jeie

1:57:12finish this real quick and then we will

1:57:14go ahead and open for questions for

1:57:16everybody if that's okay.

1:57:18>> So, I touched on

1:57:20So, I touched on refining that really

1:57:22defining what your toolbox is and

1:57:24identifying those things that we have

1:57:26and then refining our marketing

1:57:28strategies. So, so we can leverage those

1:57:31areas that we prioritize and identify

1:57:34through this GI GIS mapping that we base

1:57:36it on a set of criteria. Uh the next

1:57:40step and really important step is how we

1:57:42how we work to integrate and understand

1:57:45the fiscal impact assessment and how do

1:57:48we incorporate that incorporate that

1:57:50into our decision making processes. So I

1:57:53think um in 21 we we did test out a

1:57:58fiscal impact model. We're working to

1:58:00retest it to see if there are and

1:58:03working with our financial advisors to

1:58:05see if there's any uh other suggestions

1:58:07these days that might be more improved

1:58:10ways to guide us as we as we build um

1:58:14our path forward as we look at this. So

1:58:16we have a a reliable process that we can

1:58:20repeat uh over and over that benefits

1:58:24us. So So that was really it. I I'll

1:58:27look at Michelle and Tiffany. Any final

1:58:30thoughts as you look at this slide uh

1:58:32before we jump back into questions?

1:58:37Anything else? Nope.

1:58:39>> Okay.

1:58:40>> I think they're ready. So I'll go ahead

1:58:42and open it up for questions. We have

1:58:44Council Member Johnson first. Then we

1:58:46have mayor protraati. So we'll start

1:58:49with council member Johnson.

1:58:52>> Thank you Jazelle

1:58:54Jeie. I just have one question on slide

1:58:5712

1:58:58there under perimeter park. You have a

1:59:02comment about approximately 80.5%

1:59:06occupancy. Is that all of Perimeter P?

1:59:11>> That

1:59:11>> I'm gonna let Tiffany answer that

1:59:13question. She provided that data point.

1:59:15Yes, that is for the majority of

1:59:18perimeter part.

1:59:20>> Okay. Not that I would love to see that

1:59:23number even higher, but I I thought it

1:59:26was it had been lower. Is that Have we

1:59:29seen that percentage increasing

1:59:31recently?

1:59:32>> Yes, there's been a recent increase in

1:59:35occupancy. Um it's coming at like

1:59:38smaller square footage footprints, but

1:59:41there has definitely been an increase.

1:59:44Okay, that's great news. Okay. Um, and

1:59:48ladies, you did a phenomenal job. This

1:59:51was a great presentation. You know, I

1:59:54love this topic. And um, Jeanie's

1:59:58correct. We we're uh enviable in the in

2:00:02the region and gosh maybe

2:00:06across the state with the percentage or

2:00:10the or the mix rather of the uh

2:00:13commercial versus residential tax base

2:00:16we have here in town and it is because

2:00:19of our location. Most definitely. Um

2:00:24the this last slide about moving forward

2:00:27steps moving forward. Do we have a

2:00:29timeline on these five steps which I am

2:00:35uh 100% behind?

2:00:38>> I think that is what what the team's

2:00:40really working on as we wrap our heads

2:00:42around this inventory piece. U making

2:00:45sure that we develop the right criteria

2:00:48that works for Morrisville. What should

2:00:50we consider? what should we not be

2:00:53considering? I think it's really

2:00:55important for us to to take the time on

2:00:57that. So, I think once we get a little

2:01:00bit more handled on that, we can put

2:01:02more timeline around these next steps

2:01:05and and provide that information out.

2:01:07Are there any other different thoughts,

2:01:09group?

2:01:11Okay. That's just a really crucial step

2:01:14is to get that right. Um, and to do it

2:01:17right for the community and how we even

2:01:20project it forward because it is it is

2:01:22sensitive. We [clears throat] should be

2:01:23careful with that. I think Michelle

2:01:25touched on that earlier.

2:01:28>> Yeah. Thank Thank you.

2:01:30Um I just

2:01:33re

2:01:36um what whatever we can when we when we

2:01:39talk about this topic and the steps

2:01:41moving forward, whatever we can do as a

2:01:44town, whatever we have control over is

2:01:47going to be key to helping uh

2:01:52in this space redevelop

2:01:56um define it. But I'm 100% behind. So

2:02:01yeah, the markets con

2:02:03need to keep uh keep an eye on how

2:02:06things are changing and making sure that

2:02:09we are being nimble and being responsive

2:02:12to um to our community. But I know you

2:02:16all have said that. I just wanted to

2:02:18repeat it because that's really uh

2:02:20important in this conversation

2:02:23and the whole business engagement too.

2:02:25by the way, 100% um to make sure we're

2:02:28getting ahead of uh problems out there.

2:02:33So, that's all the comments I have right

2:02:35now. Thank you.

2:02:36>> Thank you, Council Member Johnson. May I

2:02:38Bobby?

2:02:41>> I agree philosophically with everything

2:02:43that's been said and I do think that

2:02:45this was a great presentation.

2:02:48It's not clear to me how much control we

2:02:50have though over literally any of this.

2:02:55because we mccrimin mccrimin the mcrim

2:03:00extension is a great example of a that

2:03:03was a green field so we could absolutely

2:03:07with zoning with udo improvements we we

2:03:12had a lot of control over what went

2:03:14there and we were able to really turn

2:03:16that into a revenue engine but in terms

2:03:18of redevelopment

2:03:21let's so let's just take for example a

2:03:24site that's zoned industrial and let's

2:03:27say that we decide that we'd rather see

2:03:30that be commercial, but someone owns

2:03:34that property. So,

2:03:37I don't really and and even the property

2:03:39that's just internal redevelopment,

2:03:42whatever the situation, I I don't see

2:03:45where we have a ton of control. I I get

2:03:49that we can, you know, that we can

2:03:51prepare,

2:03:52but it doesn't seem to me that we can

2:03:54drive the timeline or even predict very

2:03:59well what might happen.

2:04:03>> I I think those are good points and it's

2:04:06a combination. Um because private

2:04:09property owners have rights and some of

2:04:11it will be land assemblage that takes

2:04:13time. You know, if you go back and and

2:04:16look at some of our resources, you'll

2:04:18see some areas where people have been

2:04:20slowly picking up property for years.

2:04:22Um, and that's not necessarily always a

2:04:25quick process. So, the timing has to be

2:04:28right. Um, assembling and consolidating

2:04:31property takes time. The market

2:04:33conditions need to be right. Um, and

2:04:36there are some things that we'll be able

2:04:38to control and some things we aren't. Um

2:04:40I'll a um town center um may be a good

2:04:45example of something that look to as

2:04:47more kind of traditional redevelopment.

2:04:50Phase one is obviously under

2:04:51construction now. But if you look at

2:04:54your sub area plans, the ultimate

2:04:56buildout of town center includes

2:04:58considerably more property um than just

2:05:01phase one. But we have um developed

2:05:06plans. We have shown investment by the

2:05:10town which um signals a level of

2:05:14seriousness and commitment and you start

2:05:17to see the private um the market taking

2:05:20notice and other property owners then

2:05:22kind of looking around um that area um

2:05:27because town center is coming the area

2:05:30surrounding town center becomes more

2:05:32attractive for different reasons. So, I

2:05:34think there's some things we can

2:05:35influence and there are some things that

2:05:38um we're going to be more limited and

2:05:41you know your example of industrial

2:05:42commercial is a great example too of

2:05:45where Senate Bill 382 would not allow us

2:05:48without that property manage consent to

2:05:49change anything.

2:05:52I would also add like following that

2:05:55line, the the example of the town center

2:05:57is a prime example of things that we

2:05:58could control and that was the

2:06:01investment that the town made several

2:06:03years ago on going ahead and upfronting

2:06:06some of the infrastructure that was

2:06:07necessary for that project that made it

2:06:09more likely to have a private investment

2:06:12on that um part private private

2:06:14partnership because some of the

2:06:16infrastructure was already built. For

2:06:19example, the construction of the wetland

2:06:21was an investment that the town made

2:06:23that is serving for the storm water of

2:06:25the town center. That is an investment

2:06:28that was already constructed that is not

2:06:30on the private development to occur but

2:06:32it attracted them here. Um the other

2:06:35example is for example on the Mccrim

2:06:37extension that was a green field but

2:06:40being able to extend that road created

2:06:42that infrastructure that now made that

2:06:44green field available for for

2:06:47development that otherwise wouldn't have

2:06:49been or may have sat there for a little

2:06:50while. So infrastructure definitely is

2:06:54an area where uh municipalities often

2:06:57have a role and the other one is as I

2:07:00mentioned earlier is what barriers are

2:07:02there that we control that we are able

2:07:03to remove is it permitting processes is

2:07:07it the way we define what's allowed in a

2:07:09parcel and how can we help them maneuver

2:07:12through certain processes to make it

2:07:14more likely for them to locate here even

2:07:16though the investment might be primarily

2:07:19uh private.

2:07:22Michelle said something else I'll just

2:07:25ping back on if I can is is recognizing

2:07:28when we're seeing small assemblages

2:07:31happen. Um so it's just being aware,

2:07:35monitoring,

2:07:36looking for those opportunities and and

2:07:39that's a bit of an indicator. Uh it

2:07:41certainly was when we were assembling

2:07:43indicator 2 developments as Jazelle

2:07:45said, but it's also when we're seeing

2:07:47assemblages, small assemblages occur,

2:07:49it's it's sending a signal as you said.

2:07:52So I agree with that.

2:07:54I ju I guess I just want to make sure

2:07:56that that we're focusing on things that

2:08:01we can control that will maximally

2:08:05support redevelopment without I don't

2:08:09want to I don't want to spin our wheels

2:08:11and do a lot of work that

2:08:14relies on some outside force to to make

2:08:19it mean anything.

2:08:21>> Yep. Agreed. Thank you. I believe I saw

2:08:26Harrison uh Council Member Kling first

2:08:29and then Mayor Collie.

2:08:34[clears throat]

2:08:34>> Thank you for the presentation. Uh very

2:08:36thorough um going through it all. I

2:08:40certainly hope that I don't take up too

2:08:42much time. Um but I do have a lot of do

2:08:46I but I do have um I do have several

2:08:49thoughts. Um and hopefully they're a

2:08:52little bit scattered. Hopefully I can

2:08:53bring them land them all home uh in a in

2:08:57a organized way. Um

2:09:02so one area that I wanted to start with

2:09:04was that um we're drawing uh 1.43

2:09:08million uh dollars

2:09:11uh transfer from our general fund um

2:09:14reserves to uh balance our recurring

2:09:16everyday expenses. Um we uh delayed the

2:09:20uh um deferred uh vehicle app apparatus

2:09:25replacements. Um and then I was looking

2:09:28um I believe it was in the uh FY20 uh 27

2:09:31budget was um to continually maintain

2:09:34our our infrastructure. Our storm water

2:09:36fund reserves are projected to plunge

2:09:38from 1.05 million in fiscal year 27 to

2:09:43around 50,000 by fiscal year 31. Um, so

2:09:49a lot of that is telling me that

2:09:50something's got to give. Um, you know,

2:09:52very good presentation, a lot of really

2:09:54good stuff about the um, uh, you know,

2:09:58all the good things, all the good things

2:10:00that have been developed um, and

2:10:02[clears throat] you know, our revenue

2:10:03engine so to speak, but I'm also

2:10:06interested in understanding the cost

2:10:09engine side of that as well. Um

2:10:13I think the goals generally speaking

2:10:15that we have I think is um environmental

2:10:19protection, tax base stability, um you

2:10:23know economic development, uh protection

2:10:25of of public workers and our residents.

2:10:28Um and I think something that uh you

2:10:32know certainly it's it's an ever it's

2:10:34it's kind of at going to the top of the

2:10:36list is housing affordability. um you

2:10:38know and we probably all share that you

2:10:40know that is a concern. So I think those

2:10:42are a lot of things that I'm don't

2:10:45necessarily want to speak for the

2:10:46council. I think this is just my

2:10:48assessment of the conversations that

2:10:49we've had over time. Please uh my fellow

2:10:52council members you know contribute what

2:10:53your thoughts your thoughts are on that.

2:10:56Um,

2:11:00so with that, I've been thinking a lot

2:11:02about how do we develop in a way that

2:11:06will put ourselves set ourselves up for

2:11:08success. Um,

2:11:12I like that we look at the revenue and

2:11:14getting the revenue, but like I said

2:11:15earlier, um, looking at the costs. Um I

2:11:19appreciate the initial uh GIS analysis

2:11:24um of everything and

2:11:26>> monitoring costs or costs.

2:11:31>> So

2:11:35our storm water fee is $50 per unit.

2:11:42Yes.

2:11:44And um

2:11:46that would result if it's 100 if you

2:11:48have a development that's 100 erus

2:11:51that's uh $5,000 a year but you have to

2:11:55replace that culbert and that's you know

2:11:58a million dollars. So if my my math

2:12:01correct, that would take 200 years to

2:12:05pay back, right? And how many times

2:12:07would that have to that culvert have to

2:12:09be replaced over time? So that's that's

2:12:11where I'm talking about with the cost

2:12:13certainly with roads, streets, storm

2:12:15water. Um I don't know if uh water and

2:12:18sewer kind of factors into that as well.

2:12:19I know that's a carry um

2:12:22I don't know if it's maintained by

2:12:23Carrie. Assume it is. So they would have

2:12:26the cost on that. Um but I'm really

2:12:29And I'm I'll make this analogy about um

2:12:32maybe eating cheeseburgers.

2:12:35So I could go to McDonald's and I could

2:12:38eat [snorts] enough cheeseburgers

2:12:41to get my protein requirement. You know,

2:12:43it's about 125 grams of protein. Um and

2:12:47maybe I work out enough. Maybe I'm I'm

2:12:48I'm really fit as well. And uh I don't

2:12:52actually gain weight despite that. But

2:12:54then I go to the doctor and I see that

2:12:56my cholesterol is through the roof. It's

2:12:58it's been increasing. It's through the

2:12:59roof. You know, I'm getting this, you

2:13:03know, this good protein source, but at

2:13:06what cost?

2:13:08And I think there's a um

2:13:13this where the value per acre comes in

2:13:14that I know I know I've talked about. Um

2:13:18and I I had shared this I believe with

2:13:20uh might have been the town council

2:13:22email. So folks that are that received

2:13:24that would have gotten that. But if you

2:13:26look at um you know, let's say a Walmart

2:13:28that has a fairly high uh property tax

2:13:33or property um property value, let's

2:13:35say, versus a smaller maybe downtown

2:13:38kind of building, you know, a little

2:13:39taco shop. Uh the taco shop uh is a

2:13:43small building. It's on a smaller plot

2:13:44of land. It has more um

2:13:48it has a higher value per acre,

2:13:51presumably consumes less services. that

2:13:53has less infrastructure needs than the

2:13:54Walmart. Yes, the Walmart is a really

2:13:58big uh boost to the local economy, you

2:14:01know, jobs and revenue. Um but at what

2:14:05cost, right? Um and I think there's some

2:14:08additional costs outside of the fiscal

2:14:10costs of um the municipal budget and

2:14:13that's the traffic congestion and the um

2:14:17uh you know environmental impact of and

2:14:20car dependency. So I And what I would

2:14:23like to see and I think if you if you

2:14:26take the fiscal side of this, the

2:14:28environmental side of this, the

2:14:29transport side of transportation side of

2:14:31this, I think there is a synergy there

2:14:35where

2:14:37we can kind of accomplish all of these

2:14:38things if we play our cards right. If we

2:14:41develop in a way that that will increase

2:14:44our fiscal sustainability will and and

2:14:49not so much increase our fiscal

2:14:50sustainability but captures that

2:14:53infrastructure cost and the cost of

2:14:55services. Um, I know we have some

2:14:57residential areas that could be

2:14:58developed. If those are developed in a

2:15:01way where, you know, the cost for the

2:15:04infrastructure on those is so great

2:15:05that, you know, we'd need a bunch more

2:15:08of the commercial redevelopment

2:15:11um to to subsidize that basically. Um,

2:15:15you know, that might put us in a harder

2:15:17spot,

2:15:19medium amount of time. Um whereas if it

2:15:22was um I was thinking the Louiswis

2:15:24Stevens uh area that's zone for medium

2:15:27density residential, but what if it's

2:15:29and I'm not saying apartments, mixed

2:15:31use, anything like that, but what if it

2:15:33was uh commercial? What if it had coffee

2:15:36shops and restaurants? Same thing with

2:15:38the area in Kits Creek, right? To go to

2:15:40the coffee shop that's across the train

2:15:42tracks, you've got to get in your car,

2:15:43got to drive down to McCreman, and you

2:15:46got to go up, right? That's adding to

2:15:47the traffic congestion. Um

2:15:50and so can that can the area in can that

2:15:53area have some you know small commercial

2:15:56that residents will be able to benefit

2:15:58from which I presume would reduce our

2:16:01traffic congestion and um and also if we

2:16:05can not tear down green fields to do

2:16:07this if it was primarily residential or

2:16:09not residential uh redevelopment

2:16:12um might solve that right get those get

2:16:15those places instead of having something

2:16:17all the way out here get something a

2:16:18little bit closer to our communities and

2:16:21increase the walkability. Uh decrease

2:16:23the car dependence. Um which might go uh

2:16:28a small step towards you know resolving

2:16:30some of our traffic congestion. Car's

2:16:33going to keep developing and we're going

2:16:37to receive all that traffic congestion.

2:16:39So is there a way that we can um

2:16:42[clears throat] allow residents to live

2:16:43their life without relying on a personal

2:16:46vehicle? Um I my last um comment here is

2:16:53I think we probably need a little bit

2:16:55more granularity on the multif family.

2:16:58Um I mentioned affordable housing

2:17:00before, right? Uh home ownership,

2:17:03renting, you know, both of those things

2:17:05are really important for affordable

2:17:07housing. home.

2:17:11So I I you know I'm fine with including

2:17:13it in non-residential you know for the

2:17:14purposes of this development

2:17:16redevelopment conversation but I think

2:17:18having a you know a sub you know box on

2:17:20like what is the percentage that is

2:17:23renters or not renters but um the multif

2:17:26family versus the uh the non multif

2:17:29family residential um and what portion

2:17:31of the revenue are we receiving from

2:17:35those multif family and and kind of it I

2:17:39don't have a good analogy before it, but

2:17:40it's just like a a shift in the um

2:17:46the breakdown of it, I guess.

2:17:51So the short answer to the portion in

2:17:54our commercial tax base that represents

2:17:56multif family apartments is 30% and it's

2:17:59about um

2:18:111.5 billion

2:18:13is what it currently represents. Uh but

2:18:15we can we'll certainly make sure that we

2:18:18qualify that

2:18:21>> 50. So that was 30%

2:18:23>> 30% of the 5.2 million which is 1.5

2:18:26billion um that is represented as multif

2:18:29family commercial. But I'll make sure

2:18:31that there's nothing in there that's

2:18:33doesn't qualify as you described it um

2:18:37multifamily versus what might not be

2:18:39considered as um non multif family. It's

2:18:42just it's just a little extra little

2:18:43granularity kind of a little sidebar

2:18:46just just for information really just so

2:18:48you know

2:18:48>> but I figured that question would be

2:18:50asked so I capture that data point

2:18:57I have in this round

2:18:59>> thank you mayor

2:19:02>> so um I look at number five and I think

2:19:04of that as kind of what you've been

2:19:07talking about for the last month or two

2:19:10>> um and I think that'll be really helpful

2:19:11as we go and starting where you ended. I

2:19:15do like the ham cheeseburger analogy.

2:19:17It's kind of a good way to think about

2:19:19it. Um, you get what you need, you want

2:19:22a calorie deficit, but then there's

2:19:24still these ex external things that

2:19:27matter. Um, you also mentioned something

2:19:29about like coffee shop for Kits Creek.

2:19:32You had sent us something a long time

2:19:33ago about having like a coffee shop at

2:19:35the end of a neighborhood. So, it's kind

2:19:37of like a mixed kind of having like

2:19:40coffee shops or little um sandwich shops

2:19:44like near things like the Louiswis

2:19:46Stevens ends of Breenidge could benefit

2:19:47from something like that I think or Kids

2:19:50Creek having some kind of coffee shop so

2:19:51they don't have to go all the way down

2:19:52and all the way up. So, it's what we

2:19:55allow. So, you mentioned that as part of

2:19:57your things. It's what we allow that

2:19:59matters. The Priming Corridor was a big

2:20:01gamble. Um, and that gamble paid off a

2:20:04few years later than we expected, but I

2:20:07think everything that we're going to do,

2:20:08it's kind of going to be market driven.

2:20:10So, we just have to set the table and

2:20:12see what we can have happen for us. We

2:20:16um we're thinking about doing a small

2:20:18area plan for Perier Park. We that

2:20:19didn't make it into the budget. So, I'm

2:20:22interested when you're talking about

2:20:23small area plans and those are things

2:20:24that we can do to help um the business

2:20:28community know that we're supporting it.

2:20:30What can we do other than that? Um, what

2:20:32comes to mind to me is we have three

2:20:34great universities nearby. If we reach

2:20:36out to them and see if they have project

2:20:38teams of students who want to sort of

2:20:40take a look at us and throw new ideas at

2:20:42us. I know there's some effort that goes

2:20:45into that, but there might be some ideas

2:20:46that come out of that. Um, I do like the

2:20:49idea and like to hear that 80% of per

2:20:52your heart is now occupied. What do they

2:20:55need it to be to be viable and

2:20:58sustainable into the future? because my

2:21:00big concern is that they were going to

2:21:01start to say it's not this valuable. We

2:21:04want to be revaluated down. Um so I want

2:21:07to sort of keep an eye on that area

2:21:09because that's one of our prime drivers

2:21:12because that's a lot of office space. Um

2:21:14I've heard it called uh the largest um

2:21:18class A office space in the triangle. So

2:21:21I don't know if that's true, but if that

2:21:22is true, that's something that we can

2:21:24emphasize and market and try to use that

2:21:26as a good thing. Um,

2:21:30so how can we help our company

2:21:32successfully pursue upfits? So I

2:21:35listened to a podcast who's indicating

2:21:38like so you you're coming towards the

2:21:41end of the year the profits are not

2:21:43outside the profits are in your current

2:21:45customers. What can you upsell them? You

2:21:47already have a relationship with these

2:21:49businesses.

2:21:51What can you offer them that will help

2:21:54them grow? So, what can we offer

2:21:57ourselves to help them be more

2:22:00successful? How can we make sure that um

2:22:03like a local ice cream shop continues to

2:22:06stay in town to make sure that we're

2:22:08reaching out to them instead of going

2:22:10somewhere else just to do their

2:22:12manufacturing?

2:22:14I only know of a handful of companies

2:22:16that left the town. I know Fujifilm, if

2:22:19we had more land, they would still be

2:22:21here instead of Holly Springs, but we

2:22:22don't have the land. So, that's not

2:22:23something we can control. we can make

2:22:25sure that we are friendly and amendable.

2:22:27Um the criminal corridor we pivoted a

2:22:29couple of times and most recently to

2:22:32allow advanced manufacturing. So what as

2:22:35long as you're keeping your finger on

2:22:38the pulse of what is necessary and bring

2:22:40that to us and if it's reasonable, I

2:22:42think this is a reasonable council and

2:22:44we're looking to make sure that we're

2:22:45successful. Um, and we're only

2:22:47successful when our businesses are

2:22:49successful and that rolls down into our

2:22:50residents because we are arguably the

2:22:53best tax rate around. So, how do we make

2:22:56sure that we're leveraging that? Um,

2:23:02yeah. So, I I guess what do you need

2:23:06from us? what resources

2:23:08um can we help provide um to make sure

2:23:12that we're retaining what we have,

2:23:15growing that as much as possible because

2:23:17that's the most efficient way to do that

2:23:19because we always talk about small

2:23:20businesses being the real growth for the

2:23:23entire United States. So our existing

2:23:25businesses, many are small, helping we

2:23:27help them grow here. Um those are kind

2:23:31of my thoughts and we can leverage the

2:23:33airport some more too probably. Um, so

2:23:36that's just some thoughts. This has been

2:23:39everyone's been contributing some really

2:23:41good stuff to this because redevelopment

2:23:43is really where we're going to be

2:23:44heading. So I think if we keep on

2:23:47putting our heads together and um, you

2:23:50keep on doing a bangup job. I only hear

2:23:51great things about you, Miss McNeil. Um,

2:23:54let's just keep on being a leader in the

2:23:56region about making sure that we're

2:23:58supporting our current businesses. I

2:24:00think that would be a really good niche

2:24:01to have.

2:24:05Any other questions?

2:24:11>> Council member Kessler,

2:24:13>> I just wanted to um carry my uh

2:24:17cheeseburger analogy just a little bit

2:24:19further. Um

2:24:22>> so mentioned the cholesterol, the

2:24:24cholesterol going up, um you know,

2:24:26tracking um you know, take the blood,

2:24:28check the vitals, you know, all that

2:24:29kind of stuff. Um I do see the finance

2:24:31decoder as that kind of blood test

2:24:35basically you know um uh you know if if

2:24:39the numbers going up it's it you know

2:24:41maybe we should look at that the numbers

2:24:42going down maybe we should maybe we

2:24:44should look at you know where wherever

2:24:45it ends up um the geo the more the

2:24:49geospatial analysis the more parcel by

2:24:50parcel and looking at you know where is

2:24:53the where is the revenue coming from and

2:24:55what you know what's the biggest driver

2:24:56of the revenue um on a parcel by parcel

2:24:59basis is then also what's the what's the

2:25:01largest subsidy. I think of that um kind

2:25:03of as an MRI or a DEXA scan. Um so you

2:25:06know you go and you can see okay where

2:25:08is the where's the weight being carried

2:25:10where is the where's the impact um you

2:25:12know being felt. Um and then I also

2:25:15wanted to mention this uh North Falls uh

2:25:18lake area plan. It's something that was

2:25:20presented at Campo recently. Now it's a

2:25:23little bit different than what uh you

2:25:26know what we're experiencing. It's

2:25:27really um they are looking truly at the

2:25:29start of development um but they some

2:25:33key things there was um uh they had

2:25:36business as usual um an economic growth

2:25:38scenario wershed protection area and

2:25:40then one of the scenarios was uh strong

2:25:42towns um I know I've mentioned the

2:25:44strong town stuff it is an organization

2:25:46it's also a framework and philosophy as

2:25:49well they probably kickstart that

2:25:50philosophy but it is being used um to uh

2:25:55you know develop these land use plans

2:25:57and uh that was the strong the strong

2:25:59watershed protection was the most

2:26:01popular. The strong towns was the second

2:26:03most popular and the you know combining

2:26:06everything together was um you know what

2:26:08was the preferred plan but that might

2:26:10have some um

2:26:13uh you know latest and greatest kind of

2:26:15insights perhaps. Um so this I would

2:26:17think of this as like you know there's a

2:26:19healthy person and they want to start a

2:26:21fitness routine and this is their

2:26:22fitness plan. So they're doing that.

2:26:24Maybe we need a fitness plan of our own.

2:26:26Um, you know, considering that perhaps

2:26:28our cholesterol might not be as good as

2:26:30it we'd like it to be potentially. Um

2:26:33but we might be able to uh you know use

2:26:36this as a framework or at least pull

2:26:38some some insights from it to um you

2:26:41know understand concepts and um

2:26:44you know how

2:26:47perhaps how um

2:26:52I don't want to say zeitgeist but that's

2:26:55kind of um you know where is where are

2:26:57things headed certainly around the

2:26:58region um and how can we keep up with

2:27:01that with the challenges that we have of

2:27:03our with our land use and whatnot. Um,

2:27:05you know, if if they're developing in a

2:27:08way that would allow more walkability

2:27:09and transit and whatnot, and then we're

2:27:11still here and, you know, uh, being car

2:27:14dependent, um, you know, I'd like to get

2:27:15us

2:27:17on the on the path to, um, you know,

2:27:20reducing the car dependence and

2:27:21increasing the transit and all that kind

2:27:22of stuff, walkability.

2:27:27May I collect

2:27:30one other note that um Morrisville means

2:27:33business is a really great slogan. So

2:27:37can we have some kind of slogan about

2:27:38redevelopment? How we welcome it? We're

2:27:41open for redevelopment or something like

2:27:43that or how we treasure our current

2:27:45businesses.

2:27:47If that's kind of where we're trying to

2:27:48go, if we're aiming towards

2:27:50redevelopment, how do we market that and

2:27:53make people know

2:27:55that that's the case? Because you have

2:27:56to tell them seven times before they

2:27:58hear it. So, how are we going to tell

2:28:00people that

2:28:03just kind of a high level thought as we

2:28:06move forward?

2:28:11>> Thank you.

2:28:14>> See none other questions.

2:28:19I did have um a couple things with the

2:28:23fiscal impact modeling. I'm very happy

2:28:25that we're going to be looking at that.

2:28:27Um will that apply to economic

2:28:30development incentive projects um

2:28:33conditional resonings and future land

2:28:35use updates?

2:28:39>> What do you mean by that? to the extent

2:28:41that we ask it to.

2:28:43>> Um so we have the fiscal impact modeling

2:28:46um I suppose and we're having this

2:28:48conversation about redevelopment. Will

2:28:50that modeling be applied to uh you know

2:28:54all the different um facets of our

2:28:57redevelopment such as the um economic

2:29:00development you know the incentives that

2:29:02we offer and the our conditional

2:29:04resonings that um you that come before

2:29:06us. nothing that would you know buy

2:29:09right stuff I wouldn't imagine that we

2:29:11would mess with it on that front but

2:29:13certainly if we're if we're attracting

2:29:15business or we're having to side on a um

2:29:18you know a change in the land use uh

2:29:21such as the conditional resonings or a

2:29:23potential land use update in the future

2:29:26um incorporating that uh

2:29:29uh fiscal impact modeling in those

2:29:31conversations as well I think would be

2:29:33very important right because we have

2:29:35limited land so every acre counts and

2:29:38every all the things that we do on uh

2:29:40our limited land will affect us for many

2:29:43many year years. So

2:29:45>> we've done a little bit of that um as

2:29:47planning has brought certain types of

2:29:49projects forward. They've demonstrated

2:29:51what the impact would be uh in by way of

2:29:54maybe revenue assessment. Um, I will

2:29:59answer your question by saying it's

2:30:01going to depend on what model we develop

2:30:04as to what decisions it's best used to

2:30:07inform. It's not a one-sizefits-all.

2:30:10Um, it's highly dependent on what data

2:30:12sets or assumptions you build and what

2:30:14you build them for. So, I think that's

2:30:16to be determined as we assess uh first

2:30:19getting very grounded on what's our

2:30:21inventory and where are our priorities

2:30:23and what criteria do we base that on.

2:30:25And I think that will also help feed um

2:30:28how this fiscal impact model could

2:30:30potentially um inform those kinds of

2:30:33decisions that [clears throat] are

2:30:34related to those target areas.

2:30:41>> Council member Garland.

2:30:42>> Yeah, I saw one of the slides where you

2:30:44said 80% occupancy at the perimeter.

2:30:47How is the current trend with the like

2:30:51at one time there was a lot of rumbling

2:30:53around not able to fill up the perimeter

2:30:57uh park area or you know offices. Is it

2:31:00catching up or what's the trend look

2:31:02like?

2:31:03>> It's there's more interest in office.

2:31:07Sorry.

2:31:08>> There's increasing interest in office

2:31:11but you know in the previous years

2:31:13companies were looking at larger office

2:31:15space. Now you might see a company

2:31:16coming in that's looking at um smaller

2:31:19office space footprint. So it's 20

2:31:2130,000 square feet. So it's a slow

2:31:24incremental increase.

2:31:27>> Is the vacancy rate decreasing or

2:31:29>> no the vacancy rate was is averaging is

2:31:32averaging around 80.5. I'm sorry

2:31:36>> occupancy is 80.5. The vacancy rate has

2:31:40has decreased some. Yes.

2:31:42>> Yeah. Because at one time it was close

2:31:43to half. I think it was about 70%

2:31:47occupancy.

2:31:48>> Okay.

2:31:49>> Um last year.

2:31:50>> So So they're okay. You're not hearing

2:31:52anything that we need to do anything

2:31:54specific with from a zoning point of

2:31:56view to start that area.

2:31:57>> To be fair, I think the word okay is

2:32:00relative. If you're a developer, you

2:32:02want to be 100% occupied.

2:32:04>> We can we can office hotel if they want.

2:32:07>> So um

2:32:10they appreciate our partnership and our

2:32:12support. I I would say that. And the

2:32:13goal is for them to be 100% occupied, of

2:32:16course.

2:32:24>> One more thing. Uh 15minute city. Um

2:32:27that might be worth looking into.

2:32:29>> What did you say? Sorry.

2:32:31>> 15 minute city.

2:32:33>> Just a concept worth investigating.

2:32:38>> I wrote that towards parks. What is 15

2:32:41minute city? just in two sentences. Um,

2:32:45you can meet all your basic needs uh via

2:32:48a 15 minutee walk.

2:32:49>> Okay,

2:32:50>> that's my understanding of it.

2:32:51>> Good to know. That'd be nice.

2:32:53>> I could be. It's just coming based on

2:32:55memory, but I could be um slightly

2:32:58different.

2:33:00>> It's a nice aspirational thought.

2:33:02>> Either that or um walking, biking,

2:33:06transit, get to your needs within 15 15

2:33:08minutes.

2:33:10Well, thank you council for your um

2:33:13collaboration tonight. I think this has

2:33:14been a great uh level setting

2:33:16opportunity for us. Um thank you

2:33:18appreciate the rest of the team for

2:33:20working on this together. Um but this is

2:33:22a great step. We will definitely be back

2:33:25with more as we continue to expand onto

2:33:28this and thank you for your input

2:33:29tonight.

2:33:30>> Thank you all very much.

2:33:31>> Thank you all very much. Really, really

2:33:33appreciate it. Um anything further on

2:33:36your order, sir? are planning to take us

2:33:37into close session then take a quick

2:33:39break.

2:33:40>> Okay. Um I don't we have one close

2:33:43session this evening. We do not plan to

2:33:45conduct any business after that. So I at

2:33:48this time I'd entertain a motion to

2:33:49enter the closed session if someone

2:33:51wants to read those words.

2:33:52>> I make a motion that we enter close

2:33:54session pursuant to NCGS143-318.11A4

2:34:00to discuss a matter of economic

2:34:01development.

2:34:02>> I second that. I have a motion from

2:34:04Mayor Patra body, a second from council

2:34:06member Patel. All those in favor of

2:34:07going to close session, please say I.

2:34:10>> I. Any opposed? Hearing none, that

2:34:12carries unanimously. 6. It is 8:20. We

2:34:15are now in close session.