2026-09-14 - Board of County Commissioners Briefing

11:08Good afternoon and welcome to our

11:11Thursday meeting for our th for our our

11:15Monday meeting, I'm sorry, for our

11:17Thursday, September 17th meeting. And

11:20I'll remind you that that meeting will

11:23be at 6:00 in the evening. And thank

11:26you. I will turn it over to our county

11:28manager.

11:29>> Thank you, Madam Chair, and good

11:30afternoon, commissioner, staff, and

11:32guests. The items before you are for

11:34consideration for the September 17th

11:36meeting. Agenda item number one is a

11:38resolution recognized in September as

11:40National Infant Mortality Awareness

11:42Month in support of the 15th annual Walk

11:44them out to Save Our Babies in Forcy

11:46County and we'll have staff here on

11:48Thursday to receive that. Agenda item

11:50number two is a resolution declaring

11:52September as suicide prevention month in

11:54Forcy County and again we'll have staff

11:56there to present it. And then agenda

11:58item number three is a resolution

12:00commemorating the 50th anniversary of

12:01the Winston Salem Forcy County Utility

12:03Commission. There is a celebration on

12:06Wednesday where the proclamation will be

12:08read, but the board can vote on it

12:10officially on Thursday. Um, agenda item

12:12number four is approval of minutes for

12:14the meeting of August 27th. U, Madame

12:16Clark, have those been emailed?

12:18>> They have not, but the plan is to get

12:20them out today.

12:20>> Great. Thank you. Agenda [snorts] item

12:22number five is a resolution authorizing

12:24quantum marrow payment to North Carolina

12:26Association of County Commissioners.

12:28Kyle Wolf, our budget director, will

12:29brief this item.

12:30>> Good afternoon, commissioners. Um, this

12:32item authorizes a quantum meowit payment

12:34to the North Carolina Association of

12:36County Commissioners for its

12:37administration of the emergency medical

12:39services Medicaid cost settlement

12:41program. Under that program, the county

12:43can receive reimbursement of a portion

12:45of operational cost uh associated with

12:47our ambulance transports. There was a

12:50delay in the 23 and 24 reports being

12:52submitted uh as well as um also never

12:55having a formalized agreement for the

12:57service. Um it's so which made paying

13:01the um the invoices uh troublesome and

13:05then we have received that now uh so

13:08those will be paid more timely in the

13:10future. This um typically does average

13:13about $1.2 million of reimbursement uh

13:15each year uh from the county for this

13:18and so we just need to pay these

13:20invoices.

13:21>> Questions?

13:24Thank you, Kyle. Agenda item number six

13:26is an amendment to the education capital

13:28projects ordinance to approve a transfer

13:30of remaining 2016 bond proceeds and

13:32completed for scythe tech projects into

13:34the learning commons project. Kimberly

13:36Busy, our deputy budget director, will

13:37brief this item. Good afternoon,

13:39commissioners. In November of 2016,

13:42voters approved a bond referendum for

13:44for Scythe Tech Community College

13:46projects. Projects included the Oak

13:48Grove project, the Learning Commons

13:51Transportation Center Edition, and the

13:53Aviation Center. For Scythe Tech has

13:55completed all projects now except for

13:56the Learning Commons project, which has

13:58experienced budget increases due to

14:00inflation and rising construction costs.

14:03Forite Tech is now requesting approval

14:05to consolidate the remaining 2016 bond

14:08proceeds from completed projects into

14:10the Learning Commons project to be able

14:13to move forward with construction. The

14:15total consolidation amount is

14:16$5,319,331.

14:20After this transfer, it would make the

14:22total learning commons project budget

14:24from 2016 bond proceeds $22,519,900.

14:31Uh, FirstTech has also been able to

14:33leverage some skiff dollars for this

14:34project. Um, so that means the total

14:37project uh budget for learning commons,

14:39including our 2016 bond proceeds uh and

14:42our skiff dollars will be $35,925

14:46uh $925,419.

14:49Um, and you'll see that in your packet

14:51that that talks about their total uh

14:53funding um or construction costs and

14:56funding sources. Um, we have Scott Booth

14:58here as executive director of facilities

15:00for First Science Tech Community College

15:02if you have any questions about the

15:03project specifically, but I'll be happy

15:05to answer any questions you might have

15:06about the transfer.

15:07>> Questions?

15:09>> I have a just a couple of questions. One

15:10is a clarification. So, as I get to that

15:13almost 36 million, it looks like there

15:15was in addition to the skiff funds,

15:17there was another 8 million from the

15:19state.

15:20>> That's entirely possible. That might be

15:22a first science tech question.

15:25You'll also see an additional 2.3

15:27million listed as unidentified funds and

15:30we might have conversations about that.

15:31I think there might be a desire to use

15:33twothirds bonds money um that's slated

15:36for for scytheite um in the next fiscal

15:38year. So we might talk about that as we

15:40get into capital um development this

15:42fall. But

15:44>> the 8 million is the skiff money from

15:47the state.

15:48>> So there's 8 million skiff and then an

15:50additional 3.1 million skiff. Yes, we

15:55had some some leftover skiff, so we were

15:58able to add that to the project to bring

16:00it up

16:01>> from that. Um, do we have a deadline for

16:05using that skiff funding?

16:07>> Um, we do not at this point. Uh, we're

16:09expecting to get one, but as long as we

16:11have it allocated,

16:13we we understand that we're we're good.

16:16As long as we have it allocated, even if

16:17they set a deadline, we're still good.

16:20>> Okay.

16:21I would just want to confirm that

16:22because I know that the airport

16:23authority, they thought as long as they

16:25were working along on it and then they

16:27got a deadline of June 30th of next

16:29year, the project has to be completed

16:31and the money spent. So, we certainly

16:33don't want to jeopardize any of that

16:34skid funding.

16:35>> Right. Exactly.

16:36>> Thank you.

16:37>> Yes, sir.

16:38>> What does the learning commons include?

16:41>> It's it's a a new term for a library is

16:45what it's for or whatever. So that

16:47that's really it has more meeting rooms

16:50and a small gathering rooms and things

16:52than a than a traditional library. It's

16:55not it doesn't have to be quiet like a

16:58traditional library either. It's more

17:00interactive, got more technology in the

17:02building, things like that to make it a

17:05little more up to date.

17:09>> Further questions? Thank you.

17:13Agenda item number seven is an amendment

17:15to the fiscical year 27 budget ordinance

17:17to transfer funds to the county capital

17:19projects ordinance to pay cost of

17:20issuance related to the 2026 limited

17:22obligation bond and an associated

17:25amendment to the county capital projects

17:26ordinance to appropriate the transfer.

17:28Lee Plunkett, our deputy CFO, will brief

17:30this item.

17:31>> Thank you. Good afternoon,

17:32commissioners. On July 30th, you all

17:35approved uh a transfer from the general

17:37fund uh to the CPO, county CPO to pay

17:40cost of issuance in the amount of

17:41$135,000.

17:43Uh within that estimate, the cost of the

17:46bank's bond council was projected to be

17:4810,000. Um when we went through the RFP,

17:51it actually came in at $25,000. And so

17:53the additional $15,000 is needed to

17:55fully pay the bank's bond council. So

17:58the proposed amendments for your

17:59consideration ask that $15,000 from the

18:02general fund which is coming from

18:04expected savings that we had budgeted

18:07for the debt service related to this

18:08financing would be transferred over to

18:11the CPO to pay the full uh bank bond

18:13council fee and that uh PNC bank was the

18:17the winner of this and their bond

18:19council is WLED Bond Dickinson.

18:22>> Happy to answer any questions.

18:23>> Questions?

18:25>> Yeah.

18:26Is this is this normal to have that many

18:29legal fees?

18:30>> Yes, they are very expensive and

18:33historically um from what we've seen the

18:36average uh

18:39from all the other respondents within

18:42the RFP, uh there's quite a few that

18:45were at $25,000 for all the different

18:47banks,

18:48>> but we only budgeted 10, so that's

18:50another 15. So,

18:54>> okay.

18:57Thank you.

18:59>> Agenda item number eight is an amendment

19:01to the fiscical year 27 budget ordinance

19:03to appropriate funds from the North

19:04Carolina Department of Health and Human

19:06Services. Andrea Sheets from our budget

19:08department will brief this item.

19:13Good afternoon, commissioners. Today we

19:15have an amendment to the FY2627 budget

19:18to appropriate appropriate $8,647

19:22made available to the county department

19:23of public health women infant and

19:25children's program from the North

19:26Carolina Department of Health and Human

19:28Services. Nicole Pretty from our health

19:30department is also here if you have any

19:31questions,

19:32>> questions.

19:35>> Thank you. Agenda item number nine is a

19:37resolution authorizing execution of a

19:39revised second amendment to the

19:41agreement with Duke University to

19:42receive additional funds for the

19:43research study on the effectiveness of

19:45delivering automated external

19:47defibrillators by drone on cardiac 911

19:49calls and an associated amendment to the

19:51public safety grants projects ordinance

19:53to reduce the Duke University drone AED

19:56research project budget by $44,739.

19:59Steven Y from the sheriff's office will

20:01brief this item.

20:02>> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair,

20:04members of the board. This agenda item

20:06requests approval for a revised second

20:08amendment to the Duke University drone

20:09project agreement and an updated budget

20:11ordinance. In June 2026, the board

20:14approved an amendment increasing grant

20:16funding by $133,276

20:20to a total of $592,476

20:24to expand the study to a fourth drone

20:25base and enhanced drone platforms. The

20:28amendment was not fully executed by Duke

20:30University. Since then, Duke has

20:32requested the additional funding to be

20:33reduced to $88,537,

20:37resulting in a revised total grant

20:38amount of $547,737.

20:42The reduced budget remains sufficient to

20:44complete the project with drone operator

20:46coverage adjusted to accommodate the

20:48reduction. The the resolution and budget

20:51ordinance does authorize uh this

20:54contract change and budget adjustments.

20:56And just on a secondary note, at the

20:58June meeting, uh, prior chairman Martin

21:00did request that Dr. Sparks maybe come

21:02and do an update just to talk about the

21:04project. We have talked to her about

21:06that and she has agreed, but she would

21:08like to wait till the project's closer

21:09to its end.

21:11>> How how many have have you delivered

21:15to date?

21:16>> To date, I would have to check that, but

21:18it's been several. Yes, ma'am. We've had

21:19some success stories from that, but I

21:21would need to confirm those numbers.

21:22>> Okay, that would be interesting to know.

21:25Thank you. Yeah, I'd like to add as

21:27well, I attended the uh Sky Bond event

21:31this weekend at Maisie Woodruff and

21:33actually got to see what that drone

21:35looked like. And as a new resident now

21:38in Walkertown, I'm glad to that that um

21:41equipment is available and will access

21:44those Walkertown residents quickly. So,

21:47thank you.

21:47>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

21:49>> Thank you.

21:49>> And one Excuse me. Okay.

21:51>> One other question. Um,

21:54so a couple of years ago I was at the

21:56career center and they were having um

21:59training there for the high school

22:01students to learn how to use the drone

22:04technology for this specific uh use.

22:08C do you have any updates on that

22:10program and kind of how we're training

22:12the future operators of these AED

22:15drones?

22:16>> I'm not aware of that program, but I can

22:17check into it and get back to you. Yes,

22:19sir.

22:19>> Yeah. So maybe when the representative

22:21from Duke comes in, that would be great

22:23because I love to see that cooperation

22:25within our educational systems as well.

22:27>> Absolutely. Yes, sir.

22:30>> Thank you.

22:30>> Thank you.

22:31>> Agenda item number 10 is a resolution

22:33authorizing execution of an agreement

22:35with Granite Telecommunications LLC for

22:37the replacement of Plain Old Telephone

22:39Service or POTS Lines. Michaela

22:42Westbrook from our MIS department will

22:43brief this item.

22:45>> Good afternoon. This item seeks to award

22:47a three-year contract to grant it to

22:50telecommunications for the replacement

22:52of our traditional plain old telephone

22:54service lines to a secure digital

22:57platform. These lines support our life

22:59safety system such as fire and burglar

23:02alarms as well as elevator emergency

23:04phones. Uh the total cost of this

23:06contract is not to exceed $143,34720.

23:15Just curiosity, why do you call it plain

23:18old telephone service?

23:21>> Um, we do have our technology manager,

23:23[laughter] Jason Ring, here. He may be

23:26uh better suited to answer that

23:27question. [laughter]

23:29>> Actually, I can while he's coming up, I

23:31can shed a little bit of light. It's a

23:33uh it's an old term used in utilities um

23:36discussions uh that um

23:40in in the in the rush to make better

23:42service available for paying customers

23:45that could afford it. You wanted to keep

23:47something affordable that didn't do

23:49anything but let someone in in a in a

23:51rural home or, you know, a low-income

23:54urban neighborhood still pick up the

23:56phone and and dial for emergency. um or

23:59you know to call their mother or their

24:01grandchild. So anyway,

24:04>> absolutely. Yeah. Ba basically uh plain

24:07old telephone service is different from

24:09some of the new services that we have

24:10today such as highspeed internet and

24:12those kind of things.

24:13>> Oh,

24:13>> but it's traditional like the old copper

24:15phone lines. It was just a term that

24:17originated out of the industry itself to

24:19kind of define what those are.

24:21>> And we do have quite a few of them that

24:22are routed to elevators and burglar

24:24alarms and fire alarms. and we're just

24:26looking to modernize those services

24:28because the FCC has deregulated that

24:30that part of uh of the environment and

24:33uh the the providers are looking to get

24:35out of that legacy environment. So,

24:37they're accelerating the decommission of

24:39those lines. So, we're looking to move

24:40over something more modern and hopefully

24:42save some money in the intern.

24:44>> Thank you.

24:45>> Well, you said digital um but is this

24:49purely digital or is it still um

24:51maintaining uh analog services? It has

24:54two components. Uh it's a device that

24:57actually is ULlisted. Uh it's fire rated

25:00and fireproofed and it sits in our

25:02telecommunications rooms where those

25:04analog lines terminate or their demarks

25:06are at. And it basically uses our our

25:09precise county network as its primary

25:11source to phone home, but then as a

25:13backup service, it has a built-in SIM

25:15card that back up to a wireless service

25:17to call out if it failed on the regular

25:19network. It has a built-in backup

25:20battery with it as well. So, ET could

25:23use it then.

25:24>> Hopefully, hopefully. [laughter]

25:27>> And if I could indulge in one other uh

25:30comment uh that Commissioner Gray may

25:33appreciate, um Commissioner Wilson. Uh

25:37so, tying it back to the AEDs earlier,

25:40POTS also is an acronym for postural

25:44orthostatic tacardia syndrome. So, I

25:47think the acronym that we have here is a

25:49little bit easier to use. Thank you for

25:52that info. That's

25:55>> Thank you.

25:57>> Agenda item number 11 is a resolution

25:59authorizing execution of an agreement

26:01with information inc to provide hosting

26:03and maintenance services for II

26:05reception application. Nia Payne, our

26:07health and human services evaluation and

26:09planning manager will brief this item.

26:11>> Hello.

26:12>> Hello.

26:12>> Good afternoon, commissioners. This

26:14resolution is to request the execution

26:16of agreement with information inc to

26:19actually expand the use of their

26:20application

26:22um called II reception and we would

26:26expand it across the health and human

26:27service campus. Give you a little bit of

26:30background history. Social department of

26:32social services has been using this

26:34vendor since 2022. Started during COVID

26:36to help with lobby management system and

26:39the second phase of that rolled into a

26:41kiosk. This kiosk help with lobby

26:43management and to um excuse me and to

26:47outline the individuals as they're

26:49coming into the clinics. So we're able

26:51to see the visits and the appointments

26:54within social services and really give a

26:56a road map of what's happening within

26:58DSS. So we would like to expand that

27:01across the health and human services

27:04campus. The system will provide a

27:06centralized check-in kio lobby base or

27:09ki space system. It'll allow visitors to

27:13identify the purpose of their vis of

27:15their visit in English and also in

27:17Spanish. It'll be directed them to the

27:20appropriate program and service. The

27:22system will also provide data on service

27:24utilization. It'll include the types of

27:27visits and kind of that client journey

27:30and the and the deliver service delivery

27:32trends. The information will help health

27:35and human service understand the

27:37services that clients are assessing

27:40during the same time. Meaning when they

27:42come to our to our campus, we want to

27:45know what's happening while they're

27:46there so we can build a bigger picture.

27:49This ident this will identify

27:52opportunities to strengthen and

27:53coordinate wraparound services across

27:56HHS programs in the agencies supporting

28:00that whole person care approach and the

28:02operational planning as we continuously

28:05improve. Happy to answer any questions

28:08that you may have.

28:10>> Questions.

28:12>> Thank you.

28:13>> Thank you. Agenda item number 12 is a

28:16resolution authorizing the execution of

28:17an interlocal agreement between Forsight

28:19County and Winston Salem Transit

28:21Authority for provision of non-emergency

28:23medical related transportation services.

28:26Marissa Adams, our deputy social

28:27services director, will brief this item.

28:30>> Good afternoon.

28:32>> Good chairman, county commissioners,

28:34county manager. The board is being asked

28:36to approve a new resolution for

28:38transportation services because the

28:40county's not to exceed amount has

28:42increased from $500 in FY25 and 26 and

28:47we're requesting it be increased to

28:50$1,000 in FY27.

28:53This is for one-way transportation

28:56um to various appointments that are not

28:59covered by Medicaid

29:02um such as DDS determination trips. They

29:06are reimbursible after the trip is

29:09given, but in order to pay the vendor

29:11upfront, um the one-way trip has not

29:15increased. Um that rate is still at

29:18$2257

29:21per trip. However, our number of

29:24transportation

29:26requests to such appointments has

29:29increased. Um, our FY actual

29:32expenditures for FY26 was $631.

29:37by increasing to $1,000. This gives us

29:41the ability to sufficiently

29:43um assist approximately 44 one-way

29:46trips. Um

29:51maintaining the funds for these

29:52situations allows DSS to meet its

29:55transportation responsibilities while

29:57ensuring that the provider is

29:59compensated for authorized services that

30:03have already been delivered. Um the

30:06resolution would increase

30:07[clears throat] the max amount to

30:09$1,000.

30:11Um while transportation rates remain

30:14unchanged, additional authorization

30:16provides DSS with sufficient flexibility

30:20to pay for the limited number of

30:22necessary authorized trips

30:26and services that cannot be processed

30:28through normal Medicaid and NC tracks

30:32reimburseable processes.

30:34Thank you. Questions.

30:36>> So this would be uh basically u

30:39non-emergency use of an ambulance for

30:41transport of a um

30:44a patient to or from an appointment. No.

30:50>> No sir. This is um non-ambulatory

30:54transportation such as here to there um

30:57Providence to um particularly most often

31:01the DDS determination appointments that

31:04they have to go to in Raleigh. Um those

31:07type of instances

31:08>> say non-medical um uh transportation but

31:13limited mobility people

31:15>> not necessarily limited mobility. Okay.

31:17It's just anything that we cannot

31:19authorize. We cannot bill through NC

31:22tracks. That would be covered through

31:24non-emergency Medicaid transportation.

31:26>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

31:28>> And what percentage of those would be

31:30either disabled or impaired?

31:32>> Um for the disability determination

31:35appointments, all of those individuals

31:37are alleging disability. So, we're

31:40transporting them to those appointments

31:42for the state to determine whether

31:44they're disabil disabled or not.

31:47>> Okay. And that's what all of them are

31:48for.

31:50Yes.

31:51>> Okay.

31:51>> But there are some instances in which a

31:54individual may be have been determined

31:57eligible for a trip um transported and

32:00then something happens with their

32:02Medicaid determination. Their

32:04eligibility changes. We've already

32:06transported this individual. So that

32:10vendor rightfully needs to be paid.

32:14>> Well, yes. But if they're disabled, it

32:16doesn't matter what Medicare Medicaid

32:18thinks. I mean,

32:19>> some of these individuals are not

32:20disabled.

32:22>> Okay. And that was my question. Do you

32:24have a percentage estimate for that

32:26>> of how many are not disabled?

32:28>> Yes, ma'am.

32:29>> I will have to get that number for you,

32:30Commissioner Gray.

32:31>> That's all right.

32:31>> Wilson. Commissioner Wilson.

32:33>> Whatever. Thank [laughter] you.

32:37>> Other questions?

32:39Thank you.

32:40>> Thank you.

32:41Agenda item number 13 is a resolution

32:44authorizing execution of an agreement

32:45with I3 Verticals LLC for website and

32:48operating system administration and

32:50maintenance. William Fulbright, our

32:51budget analyst, will brief this item.

32:53>> Good afternoon, commissioners. The

32:55Forside County Register of Deeds

32:57contracts with I3 Verticals LLC for

32:59website and operating system

33:01administration and maintenance to

33:04provide the general public with online

33:05access to public documents. I3 Verticals

33:08LLC is the sole source provider of

33:11maintenance and product support for the

33:12operating system known as the registry.

33:15Approval of this agenda item is

33:17necessary as the cost of this service is

33:2068,578

33:22thou,000

33:24for fiscal year 2027.

33:28I'll be glad to answer any questions you

33:30may have.

33:32>> Questions?

33:34>> What What does this cover? This is a

33:36register of deeds, correct?

33:37>> Yes, sir.

33:38>> Okay. I can go online in five minutes

33:41and pull up any deed in the registry

33:43there. And these costs are for what?

33:45>> For the maintenance and the operating

33:47for the operating maintenance for this

33:49system that we use.

33:51>> Okay. Thank you.

33:53>> Thank you.

33:54>> Agenda item number 14 is Williams as

33:56well. It's a resolution ratifying a

33:58contract between Force County Department

34:00of Public Safety and Youth

34:01Collaborative, Inc. for youth intensive

34:03intervention services from project X and

34:05an associated amendment to the fiscical

34:07year 27 budget ordinance.

34:09>> Thank you. This amendment to the fiscal

34:11year 2627 budget ordinance is necessary

34:14to appropriate 123,296

34:17in intensive intervention funds that

34:20were awarded by the North Carolina

34:21Department of Public Safety to Youth

34:23Collaborative. Project X for you

34:25juvenile justice involve youth ages 13

34:28through 20 who are gang involved.

34:31Intensive intervention funds are

34:33different from annual JCPC funds in that

34:35they are reserved for court-referred

34:37youth who are level two, three, and one

34:41and have high needs or at high risk for

34:43recidividating. The funding decision for

34:45intensive intervention funds is made by

34:47the NCDPS community programs management

34:50team. The funds do not require a local

34:52match and are 100% pass through funds

34:55for monthly dispersements by the county

34:58to youth collaborative. Local

35:00monitoring, oversight, and

35:01administrative roles for this funding

35:03are however the same for the JCPC and

35:06the county as for annual JCPC funds.

35:11>> Questions?

35:12>> Thank you.

35:13>> Thank you. Agenda item number 15 is a

35:15resolution awarding and authorizing

35:17execution of an agreement for vehicle

35:19telematics and automated vehicle

35:20location system. Jonathan Markle, our

35:23fleet manager, will brief this item.

35:26>> Good afternoon, commissioners. Uh the

35:28item before you today is for vehicle

35:29telematics and automated vehicle

35:31location systems. Uh so this was bid

35:33through city county purchasing closing

35:35on August 19th. We had four responsive

35:37biders. Uh Kerasoft Technology

35:40Corporation was a low bid with their

35:41solution. Uh the solution they provided

35:43was Motive Technologies. So we are

35:45seeking a three-year contract with

35:47Motive through Kerasoft not to exceed

35:49$264,88710.

35:53This will cover the entire fleet of

35:54Foresight County vehicles. Happy to

35:57answer any questions.

35:58>> Questions.

36:00>> This this tells you where a vehicle is

36:02located.

36:03>> So it does a lot of things, but part of

36:04it is vehicle location services. Yes. So

36:06we know where where any vehicle is in

36:08our fleet. Additionally, it will also uh

36:11give us advanced telematics so we know

36:13if there's a problem going on with the

36:14vehicle. Somebody calls in and says a

36:16check engine light comes on, we can log

36:18into the system, tell them figure out

36:19what's going on, how immediate the need

36:21is, if it needs to pull over and be

36:22towed, if they can drive it safely over

36:24the fleet for it to be repaired. It

36:26gives us a lot of information about the

36:27vehicle itself.

36:28>> It can make that interrogation and

36:30decision remotely.

36:32Yes, it it will provide us the

36:34information of the from the computer of

36:35the vehicle to be able to tell us what

36:37the fault code is and give us some

36:39insights into what's going on with it.

36:41>> I'm almost afraid to ask why you need to

36:43know where every vehicle is every

36:44minute. So, I'll say this was one of the

36:48conversations we had during the budget

36:49workshop and it actually was an item

36:51that the board specifically approved and

36:54part of it is as we are really trying to

36:57um decipher who needs assigned vehicles,

37:00who needs take-home vehicles, what's the

37:03state of the vehicles right now, we just

37:05do not have a system that can help us to

37:07appropriately track and monitor. Um, so

37:10this was one of the items that the board

37:11specifically approved in this year's

37:13budget.

37:15I think that there was some discussion

37:18uh included of um knowing from the

37:22travel patterns whether it would be

37:24practical for a particular vehicle to

37:27stop in and use one of the uh the county

37:30facilities for fueling. Uh

37:33>> that was that was definitely part of it.

37:34There was some some fueling information

37:36and outside fueling usage that we were

37:39uh analyzing. Uh, but utilization is the

37:41biggest piece. Having having detailed

37:43information about the utilization of

37:45county vehicles is is is the biggest

37:47piece of information that we're missing

37:48right now.

37:49>> Just out of curiosity, does it include

37:50being able to tell you in real time what

37:53the speed of the vehicle is?

37:54>> It does.

37:55>> So,

37:56right.

37:59Thank you.

38:01>> Thank you.

38:01>> Thank you. Agenda item number 16 is a

38:04resolution declaring certain real

38:06property as surplus and authorizing

38:08publication of an offer to purchase

38:09county-owned real property by negotiated

38:11offer advertisement and upset bids

38:13procedure. Chelsea Swain, our deputy

38:14general services director, will brief

38:16this item.

38:18>> Good afternoon, Madam Chair and board.

38:20This item is to declare real property at

38:22Zero Williams Road as surplus as well as

38:25to authorize the publication of an offer

38:28to purchase this property for upset

38:29bids. A little background on the

38:31property is it's about 19.8 acres off

38:35Williams Road. It sits on the Yadkin

38:38River. Believe there's an aerial in your

38:39packet of that. The county acquired this

38:42property in the late 80s from the

38:44Shelton companies. At the time, um,

38:47looking back at some newspaper articles,

38:48it appeared that there were some

38:50discussions about developing a park on

38:53this property. And in the newspaper

38:55articles, it indicated that there might

38:57have been some community opposition to

38:58that as well as a lack of funding at the

39:01time. And we've just never used um

39:04developed the property for a park. I

39:07will note that there are no longer any

39:09LWCF restrictions on the property. There

39:12originally were and we those were

39:14converted to the CG Hill property in

39:16the9s and we um did get verification of

39:18that by North Carolina Department of

39:20Natural and Cultural Resources. So

39:22currently the property is is vacant and

39:24I have a picture here of it.

39:45There we go.

39:51Sorry about that. Um, you can see it's

39:53vacant. It's heavily wooded. Has a lot

39:55of undergrowth there. Has about 760 feet

39:59of river frontage on the Yadken River

40:01and then about another $450 ft of road

40:04frontage on Williams Road. It does kind

40:06of sit in a curve on the road. The

40:08listed tax value is $142,300

40:12and it is zoned Yadken River

40:16Conservation District. There are

40:18currently no operation county operations

40:20there. We don't have any maintenance

40:21requests for it. It truly does just sit

40:24as vacant. The offer we have received is

40:26from Jason's suite and it is in the

40:29amount of $142,300

40:32and he has indicated that he intends to

40:34make this his family home. He has made

40:37the deposit with the clerk as required

40:38by statute. Um, as we normally do, we

40:41did engage with the tax department to

40:43gauge their value or um, what they would

40:46think the property value would be on

40:47that. And they after looking at the

40:50flood zoning attributes and then the

40:52values of the neighboring unimproved

40:54lands, they indicated that perhaps a

40:57more equitable value of that would be

40:59$284,600.

41:02So to summarize again, this item would

41:05declare the property as surplus and

41:08would authorize the publication of this

41:10offer for upset bids. So if you were to

41:13approve today, we would then go into a

41:1410-day upset bid period where others

41:17could submit a bid for this property.

41:19And I believe the clerk has this

41:20publication scheduled to go out on

41:22September 19th if you all approve on

41:24Thursday. And then we would just

41:26continue that upset bid process until we

41:28received no more bids, at which time we

41:30would negotiate a purchase offer with

41:32the highest bidder and then bring that

41:34back to you all for consideration and

41:37approval if you so chose. Um, as always,

41:39you know, it's up to you all as to

41:41whether or not you want to declare this

41:42as surplus or if you want to hold on to

41:44it for potential future development.

41:46Happy to answer any questions you may

41:47have.

41:50>> I don't think all of it is, but a lot of

41:52it is.

41:58area

42:02>> I believe so I think yeah

42:05>> yeah there is I haven't actually run the

42:08numbers what would you say the total

42:09acreage was

42:10>> about 198

42:11>> yeah I would say probably 2/3 to 3/4 of

42:15it is within the flood plane but even at

42:17that that would leave four or four or

42:19five acres of area where you could build

42:21a

42:24So, it's about $7,000 an acre with the

42:27current offer.

42:28>> A little over. Yes, sir.

42:29>> Okay. Is there any compelling reason

42:31that we need to uh uh unload the

42:34property at this time?

42:37>> No. I mean, that would be my opinion.

42:39We're not spending any money on it. We

42:41don't spend staff time up there doing

42:43anything. So, I mean, that would just be

42:44at your discretion.

42:45>> It's under the under current market

42:47circumstances, that seems like a very

42:49low offer.

42:51Yeah, I'm I'm not inclined to jump at

42:54that even to start an upset bid process.

42:58Anyway, thank you.

42:59>> What was that number you call that?

43:02>> His offer is $142,300.

43:07>> It's 19 acres.

43:09>> I did. So after speaking with the tax

43:11department, they felt like a more

43:13equitable value would be $284,600

43:18>> was 28.

43:20I love giving this property.

43:22>> Other questions?

43:24>> I'm I'm not sure if this question was

43:26asked. Um who deeded this property to

43:29the county? It says it was deed to us.

43:32>> We got it from the Shelton companies. It

43:34was part of a land swap um back in the

43:37late 80s. They wanted some of the

43:39property of the acreage at the science

43:42center sideworks and we got this in

43:44return.

43:49>> Other questions?

44:01>> Yes, sir.

44:07Thank you. I

44:08>> I'm sorry. Um Chairwoman Wizen Hut, um

44:12I'll just ask the difficult question. Do

44:14you know approximately what the tax

44:16value would be? You may have said it and

44:18I missed it.

44:19>> The listed tax value is $142,300.

44:23>> Okay, fair enough. Thank you.

44:25>> Thank you.

44:35That was after um engaging with the tax

44:37department.

44:40>> So we don't spend any dollars keeping up

44:42the property?

44:44>> Not to my knowledge. No, ma'am.

44:47>> Must be just woods or something if

44:49you're not cutting.

44:50>> Okay.

44:50>> Thank you.

44:51>> Thank you.

44:53Agenda item number 17 is a resolution

44:55authorizing execution of an amendment to

44:57the lease agreement between Forers

44:58County and North Carolina Baptist

45:00Hospital for the lease of property

45:01located at 501 North Cleveland Avenue.

45:04Emily Monday, our property manager, will

45:05brief this item.

45:07>> Good afternoon. This item is for

45:09approval of an amendment to the lease

45:10agreement between Forsight County and

45:12North Carolina Baptist Hospital for

45:15lease of property located at 501 North

45:17Cleveland Avenue. Um, a little

45:19background is that the county has leased

45:22space since 2015 at 501 North Cleveland

45:26Avenue for the public health dental

45:27clinic and wick office. Um, the Wick

45:30office has recently relocated to a

45:32county-owned facility and there are

45:34plans for the relocation of the dental

45:36clinic as well. However, the public

45:38health department has continued need for

45:41the space to house the dental clinic

45:43while a new clinic is constructed. Um,

45:46when renovations of the space at AnnX1

45:49facility are complete, the public health

45:51dental clinic will relocate. Um, this

45:54amended lease for reduced space will end

45:57on June 30th, 2027, and the county

46:00retains the ability to terminate the

46:02lease with a 90-day written um, notice

46:06if the dental clinic should be relocated

46:09before the lease expiration. Um,

46:11therefore, staff recommends amending the

46:13lease with North Carolina Baptist

46:14Hospital to extend the term for seven

46:17months for the period beginning December

46:191st, 2026 through June 30th, 2027 for

46:242,862

46:26ft of space. Rent is $3,749

46:30per month for a total of $21,5243

46:35for the amended term. Happy to answer

46:38any questions if you may have.

46:41questions.

46:43Thank you.

46:43>> Thank you. Agenda item number 18 is an

46:46ordinance revising chapter 6 consisting

46:48of sections 6-19,

46:51646, 647, 648, and 651 of the Forcia

46:55County code entitled animals. Jamie

46:58Burton Bertman, our animal shelter

47:00director, will brief this item.

47:02>> Good afternoon. So this ordinance amends

47:05the current for county code in order to

47:07become compliant with North Carolina law

47:09concerning microchipping of animals and

47:12surrender of animals. Additionally,

47:14these changes update current language to

47:16reflect the 2022 discontinuation of pet

47:19licensing to authorize the issuance of

47:22spayneuter vouchers for animals adopted

47:24from the shelter when the shelter is

47:26unable to perform that procedure on

47:28site.

47:31>> Any questions I can answer for you?

47:33Thank you. Thank you.

47:36>> Agenda items 19 through 29 are our

47:40appointments and you all will handle

47:42those on Thursday. And that's all of our

47:46agenda items.

47:47>> I I do have a question about um I think

47:50it's the

47:52zoning adjustment board. Um, a citizen

47:57asked me today about the um,

47:59appointments for that board and um, I

48:03think that they were they they were

48:06unclear about I guess you know the

48:08application deadline. I I think the only

48:11one that I would, you know, ask for some

48:14leniency is the one that if you live

48:17outside of the city limits, only one

48:20person applied. And if that person um

48:24lives outside of the city limits, would

48:27we be willing to accept their

48:28application as a part of our

48:30consideration on Thursday?

48:33>> Well, the deadline has already passed.

48:36be a bit unfair to the other folks I

48:39think maybe

48:41>> yeah that's why I I wouldn't even ask

48:42for any consideration for the ones that

48:45that's not outside of the city limits

48:47because there are you know one two three

48:49four five people so I I do agree that it

48:52would be terribly unfair to accept any

48:56applications there because those folk

48:58you know put in their applications and

49:00we have enough to consider but I think

49:02one is very is a limited kind of

49:06decision ision um by the board to

49:09consider, but

49:12I don't know.

49:14I'm just asking.

49:15>> I'd rather just not start that practice

49:18if we could please.

49:23Um, the other piece that I would ask for

49:26consideration, and this may be a

49:28question for the um, county attorney, in

49:30light of um, issues around affordable

49:34housing, if the if the commissioners

49:38would consider um, in the future putting

49:42some kind of um, require, well, not

49:45requirement, but preference around at

49:47least one of the members that we appoint

49:51having some commitment around affordable

49:54housing so that we can try to um at

49:57least I think um um ideally

50:02um exercise lowhanging fruit around what

50:05we can do as a county in support of

50:07housing.

50:13>> I'm I'm not sure exactly what the

50:14question is.

50:15The question would be could we prefer um

50:18someone that we are appointing have some

50:21background with affordable housing?

50:24>> So I believe this particular appointment

50:27may be for the city of Winston Salem.

50:30>> Yeah, for that one. But I'm just saying

50:32in the future for the other ones. uh you

50:34know the board if if it's a board that

50:36is controlled by this board by you then

50:40you set the standards as to what type of

50:43position that is. So it it may be a

50:47possibility that's something we could

50:48certainly explore but

50:51>> it's it would generally be up to you but

50:53not not for this one because it's the

50:55zoning board of adjustment for Winston

50:57Salem.

50:59>> Thank you.

51:02Thank

51:05>> that is all of our agenda items and what

51:08we have is our data center discussion.

51:10Um Helena Fiori from our community

51:13economic development department is going

51:14to kick us off and we have individuals

51:17here from utilities planning um

51:21attorney's office.

51:23Um I think that's it maybe um that is

51:27going to be part of today's

51:28presentation.

51:31Thank you, madame manager, and good

51:34afternoon, commissioners.

51:36This agenda item is to discuss the topic

51:38of data centers.

51:42County staff, city, county planning

51:44staff, and city county utility staff

51:46have all prepared for this discussion.

51:49In time, each will come before you to

51:51share more about what data centers mean

51:55according to their specific department

51:57or location. Um these topics include a

52:01brief overview, demand of data centers

52:03in Foresight County and North Carolina,

52:06our current zoning framework, existing

52:09data centers in the county, our current

52:11water capacity, energy considerations,

52:14and legal considerations.

52:19To get us started, I'm going to do a

52:22definition. Uh so a data center is a

52:25physical facility that houses groups

52:28ofworked computers and computing

52:30infrastructure used to store, process

52:33and share digital information.

52:36Essentially data centers are the

52:38physical foundation of the internet.

52:44There are five primary types of data

52:47centers. I won't read every single

52:49definition out loud. These um

52:52definitions are displayed before you but

52:54I would like to call out that we have

52:57edge enterprise and colllocation data

53:00centers in our county currently.

53:03So the first three edge enterprise and

53:06collocation are here. We do not have a

53:09cloud data center or a hypers scale data

53:11center in foresight county.

53:15Is this an appropriate point for

53:16questions or uh should we wait till the

53:18end of uh each presentation?

53:21>> Anytime you need to ask a question.

53:24>> Um the um the cloud and hypers scale

53:27data centers that we don't currently

53:29have any here. Uh do you know when the

53:33uh current um reference and EDO to data

53:37centers was uh created whether

53:44there were uh hypers scale data centers

53:48as defined here um uh in process

53:52elsewhere.

53:54>> I'll let Kirk Ericson get into the

53:56current EDO um but no I do not think

54:01those existed when our current EDO

54:05classification of data center was

54:07formed.

54:08>> Thank you.

54:11Um and then

54:14final thought around the overview

54:17data centers really vary by size and

54:21power need. Uh so in front of you is the

54:25smallest to the largest. So an edge data

54:28center is going to be the smallest data

54:30center

54:32going down to enterprise collocation

54:34cloud and hypers scale. Um, and just

54:37because there's such a variety in size,

54:41power need, there's a lot that goes into

54:44the consideration for each type of data

54:45center facility. So,

54:49it's it's not a one-sizefits-all

54:51conversation always.

54:53>> Do you feel comfortable sharing um a

54:56couple names of an edge company already

55:00here in Winston Salem or for side

55:01county?

55:03Uh Kirk Kirk has that in his in his

55:06presentation that's going to be after

55:07Helena.

55:08>> Thank you.

55:10>> Um

55:12you'll be much more excited by Kirk's

55:14presentation. I promise.

55:16>> The we are seeing demand in data

55:19centers. As we know data centers are a

55:22huge topic of conversation. This is due

55:24to artificial intelligence, AI and cloud

55:28computing services driving data center

55:31growth. What we know is developers are

55:34seeking new locations that will support

55:36energy needs primarily in markets where

55:39energy capacity is growing.

55:42We are seeing a demand for data centers

55:44in North Carolina because our state has

55:47basic energy infrastructure and our

55:49state is growing its energy capacity.

55:53Um I'm going to end my overview with a

55:55map showing uh proposed data centers in

55:58North Carolina. I show this to share

56:01that Foresight County is not recruiting

56:04new data centers to our community. Um,

56:08but across the state we are seeing this

56:10type of demand.

56:12And now I'll let Kirk Ericson with City

56:14County Planning share more about our

56:16current zoning framework.

56:19>> Oh, more questions.

56:21>> Pass the the torch. Um

56:24are you at liberty to say whether there

56:28is a particular whether there's an

56:30estimate of number of

56:32large data center requests that have

56:35been um

56:39>> discussed in for South County?

56:44>> I don't know of a number

56:48that would be accurate.

56:51[clears throat]

56:51>> Okay. Thank you.

56:54>> I'll just say one thing that we've heard

56:56anecdotally. A lot of these are not

56:57going through the chamber or places like

56:59that. They're working directly with

57:01property owners. So, we don't really

57:02have a good number for what the interest

57:04is in for county. You know, we hear

57:06things. Um we hear things, but we don't

57:09have any data to to support that.

57:12>> Thank you.

57:13>> All right. Uh good afternoon, Chair

57:15Wesen, commissioners, county manager,

57:18and staff and guests. Hopefully I'll be

57:20able to fill in some of the blanks as

57:22regard to questions that you all were

57:24asking of Helena, but hopefully this

57:27will come out organically through the

57:28presentation and if not we can circle

57:30back. But to talk about the current

57:32zoning framework for data centers,

57:35planning and development staff has

57:37historically classified data centers as

57:39services. A as commissioner Bessie

57:42mentioned

57:44or inquired, this is a use. We made that

57:47determination before the concept of

57:50hypers scale data centers even existed.

57:53Now there's some legal ramifications

57:55that go along with that determination

57:57that we'll get into in a little bit. But

58:00this UDO services aid describes a

58:03variety of business types that provide a

58:06service to business and individuals. So

58:08this is a broad definition and we're

58:11going to see exactly how broad that is.

58:14But some examples of services a

58:16businesses are beauty salons and barber

58:18shops, dry cleaners, photography

58:21studios, nail salons, watch and jewelry

58:25repair. And there's a specific standard

58:28industrial classification code. The SIC

58:31is basically something that economic

58:33developers, business professionals, and

58:36government employees look to to classify

58:39what a business is in terms of its

58:41impacts and similar uh similar effects.

58:45SIC 737 is called computer programming,

58:48data processing and other computer

58:50related services. This is something when

58:54I go to the next slide here, you can see

58:56a screenshot of the existing services a

58:58definition in the UDO. Again, uh if I

59:02get my mouse here, you can see SIC 737

59:07right there. That is something when

59:10staff classified our first data center

59:12many years ago, we felt that was the

59:15best definition because again these are

59:17effectively computer related services,

59:19hosting data, things of that nature.

59:24When we go and look at the UDO for the

59:27permitted use table to see where

59:29services A is allowed, it is allowed in

59:33uh most non-residential districts. In

59:36fact, uh let's see, I have the number

59:38here. It's actually 14 zoning districts.

59:41And this use is allowed with no use

59:45specific standards. Some of the uses

59:47that come before you such as uh for

59:49example land clearing and inert debris,

59:52landfills or things like that, they have

59:54very specific additional standards for

59:57things like buffer yards and access and

1:00:01any number of use specific conditions.

1:00:04But because services A is allowed in

1:00:07districts as low intensity as our

1:00:09neighborhood business district, which is

1:00:12essentially things you might see at the

1:00:13corner of two streets in an older urban

1:00:16neighborhood,

1:00:17staff uh the framers of the original UDO

1:00:20in 1994 didn't feel that this use needed

1:00:23any specific conditions. Now, with that

1:00:26being said, there are the same basic

1:00:29requirements that every land use must

1:00:31comply with related to buffering,

1:00:34lighting, signage, parking, access. All

1:00:37of those things still must be met.

1:00:39There's just no additional hurdles that

1:00:42a services a use must cross.

1:00:47So staff is unable to filter all our

1:00:50existing services a zoning permits by

1:00:53those specific 20 or so business types

1:00:56that we saw a couple slides ago. That

1:00:59being said, we were able to go through

1:01:02and use our anecdotal knowledge, look

1:01:04through our permit history and a Google

1:01:07search, and it appears that there's four

1:01:10data centers that are kind of standalone

1:01:12uses of land in the county currently.

1:01:16All of those are actually within the

1:01:17Winston Salem zoning jurisdiction.

1:01:21And this is a map that I had our staff

1:01:23create that shows where all these are.

1:01:26But there's a Lowe's Hardware data

1:01:28center on University Parkway and the

1:01:30Madison Park office complex. There's the

1:01:33Wells Fargo data center on Sunnyol Court

1:01:36off of Silus Creek Parkway. Again, this

1:01:39is probably the one that most folks are

1:01:40familiar with if they're familiar with

1:01:42any. There's one that's existed downtown

1:01:45for a number of years, the West End data

1:01:48center close to the West End

1:01:49neighborhood on 4th and a half street.

1:01:52And there's one that we just became

1:01:54aware of through this analysis called

1:01:56the Segra data center which is in an

1:01:59industrial park on Old Lexington Road.

1:02:01And I'm going to walk you through uh a

1:02:04little detail on each of these so you

1:02:05can just see the breadth of the data

1:02:07centers that are currently in the

1:02:08community.

1:02:10So again, this is the Wells Fargo data

1:02:13center on Silus Creek Parkway.

1:02:15Uh you can see it's zoned general office

1:02:18special use. So it was zoned explicitly

1:02:21to be a data center a couple probably

1:02:25over three decades ago at this point.

1:02:27But again, it was explicitly laid out as

1:02:29a data center. Uh they really did a good

1:02:32job of uh doing some enhanced screening

1:02:37along the street which behind the

1:02:39screening is where their chillers and

1:02:41generators are and all the things that

1:02:43you remember from looking at the rural

1:02:45hall data center that were kind of

1:02:47internally oriented on that site. But

1:02:49this is an older facility. And you know,

1:02:52for what it's worth, we had some staff

1:02:54attend some training by the school of

1:02:56government uh last week, and this was

1:02:59the first facility that they showed as a

1:03:01potential good example of uh how you

1:03:03could basically make a data center fit

1:03:06in with its surroundings.

1:03:10This is the West End data center in

1:03:11downtown. I'm sorry, Commissioner.

1:03:13>> Before you go on to the other example,

1:03:15uh do you have any information on the uh

1:03:18power demand from this center or is that

1:03:20something that they consider proprietary

1:03:22information?

1:03:23>> That would be considered proprietary. Uh

1:03:25I'm not sure if one of the other

1:03:27speakers may mention uh anything related

1:03:30to conversations we've had with Duke

1:03:33Energy, but that's not something that

1:03:35planning staff is aware of.

1:03:36>> All right. Thank you.

1:03:38>> We wouldn't know the type of data

1:03:40center. Well, I can tell you this one is

1:03:43it would be an enterprise data center

1:03:45because it's a private facility owned by

1:03:47a single organization which is Wells

1:03:50Fargo.

1:03:52It would also probably be classified as

1:03:54an edge data center since it's one of a

1:03:57number of decentralized facilities they

1:03:59have to kind of supplement their online

1:04:01banking wealth management services

1:04:03across the country.

1:04:08So the next uh the next case study here

1:04:11is the West End data center. This was

1:04:14also a Wakovia and then later Wells

1:04:18Fargo facility. Again, it's in downtown

1:04:20Winston and it's currently uh there's a

1:04:24company out of Texas that recently

1:04:26acquired this. They're going through the

1:04:28process of upfitting it to be a private

1:04:30uh collocation data center where

1:04:33different companies could basically use

1:04:34their services. But again, it makes use

1:04:37of a pre-existing data center facility

1:04:40which is in this building right here

1:04:42which you can see on the slide. The site

1:04:45also comes with this large roof mounted

1:04:48parking lot on the other side of 4th and

1:04:51a half street. And these big items

1:04:54uh these structures right here along the

1:04:56street which you can see in this slide

1:04:59here that represents their uh their

1:05:02backup generators and other HVAC power

1:05:06type equipment that are necessary to

1:05:08keep this keep this use viable if

1:05:10there's outages or things of that

1:05:11nature.

1:05:14This is the third example that we

1:05:16mentioned which is the Lowe's hardware

1:05:19data center. It is actually this

1:05:21building right here within the Madison

1:05:24Park uh 1980s era office park

1:05:27development off of University Parkway.

1:05:30Highway 52 is just to the north of the

1:05:33slide and this is North for Scythe High

1:05:35School which is across the street. This

1:05:38this particular project is zone general

1:05:40business. And again, like most of these

1:05:44facilities, you wouldn't necessarily

1:05:46know that they're processing or hosting

1:05:49data just by looking at it from the

1:05:51outside.

1:05:54>> And sir, could I ask you a question?

1:05:56>> Yes, ma'am.

1:05:57>> Um, do you know if inspections receives

1:06:00complaints from these centers like noise

1:06:04and those those types of things? I will

1:06:08I'll let Chris respond if he is aware of

1:06:10any, but I am not aware of any in my

1:06:12tenure.

1:06:14>> I'm not aware of any.

1:06:15>> Okay. Thank you.

1:06:18>> So, the final local data center that

1:06:20we're aware of is the SegRA data center.

1:06:23This is a company that, full disclosure,

1:06:25I had to do a little bit of uh Google

1:06:26soouththing on after we found this one

1:06:29out there. Apparently, they own about

1:06:31half a dozen or so data centers in North

1:06:34Carolina with several in the Charlotte

1:06:36metro. And they are in uh this building

1:06:41house building complex that used to be

1:06:43the old Western Electric facility on Old

1:06:45Lexington Road. And they are in this

1:06:48small building towards the front of this

1:06:51larger multi-building complex. You can

1:06:55see it looks like they have some

1:06:57generators and other equipment that

1:07:00likely serve the data center that are

1:07:02right behind the building here. But from

1:07:05uh old Lexington Road, much as the

1:07:08previous examples, it looks like a large

1:07:10nondescript manufacturing/off

1:07:14type space.

1:07:17And they're zoned general industrial

1:07:19currently.

1:07:22So I know this is something that the

1:07:24commissioners are obviously concerned

1:07:26about is based on the number of

1:07:29districts that technically allow data

1:07:31centers. What is the possibility? How

1:07:34many of these could realistically locate

1:07:35in the community right now? So while the

1:07:38UDO theoretically allows data centers on

1:07:41many sites by right with staff approval,

1:07:44there's practical considerations that

1:07:46severely limit the potential for data

1:07:48centers on existing zoning. The first

1:07:51disease that you need in my estimation

1:07:55kind of looking at the uh the Wells

1:07:57Fargo data center on Silus Creek is a

1:07:59good example. You need about a 10acre

1:08:02site to accommodate a 100,000 plus

1:08:04square foot building by the time you add

1:08:06your storm water ponds, security

1:08:09consideration,

1:08:10buffering, uh parking areas, any of

1:08:13those things. So that knocks a lot of

1:08:16sites out of contention.

1:08:18You also have to look at your site

1:08:20assemblage. So the rural hall site just

1:08:23had a few land owners, which is really

1:08:25what you would need to make site

1:08:28assemblage easy because otherwise, you

1:08:31know, anytime you have to work with a

1:08:32number of investors and land owners,

1:08:34that makes the process more difficult

1:08:36for developers.

1:08:38In our conversations with other

1:08:40professionals in communities where these

1:08:42are more common and applicants, the

1:08:46number one need for a data center is to

1:08:48be located near a power substation

1:08:51or those high voltage 200 plus kilovolt

1:08:55electric transmission lines. And the

1:08:58final need is will be uh gotten into by

1:09:01city county utility staff after me is

1:09:04the need for public water and sewer

1:09:06access. Again, these are major uh

1:09:09utility users in the community. So, they

1:09:12can't go into kind of the urban fringe

1:09:14or areas that we would be served by

1:09:16septic systems and wellwater. So, we had

1:09:20our staff do kind of an exercise when

1:09:23you laid all these variables together.

1:09:26What kind of what kind of places are we

1:09:29looking at in Winston Salem and for

1:09:30Scythe County?

1:09:33So there were only four kind of broad

1:09:36areas that met all of those criteria of

1:09:39having existing zoning, large acreage

1:09:41and single ownership,

1:09:43utility access, and close proximity to

1:09:47those power needs. So you have some

1:09:50areas kind of along Highway 52, more

1:09:54towards the northern part of the

1:09:55community. You've got some areas kind of

1:09:58to the eastern part of Winston Salem uh

1:10:01towards kind of the edge of the

1:10:03Walkertown and Kernersville area where

1:10:05you know there's already some industrial

1:10:07zoning uh in that area kind of on the

1:10:09north side of Salem Lake. You have

1:10:12certainly downtown Winston Salem,

1:10:14although I'm not sure that

1:10:17this type of use would necessarily uh be

1:10:20willing to locate in such a heavily

1:10:22traveled environment or pay downtown uh

1:10:26lease rates, which are of course some of

1:10:27the highest in the community. and you

1:10:30had one uh kind of in the south side of

1:10:34town off of the south main Barnes Road

1:10:37uh that kind of area which again there's

1:10:39some existing large industrial

1:10:41facilities already in that area. So

1:10:45again, any any individual data center

1:10:49could certainly choose a site that's

1:10:51more complex in terms of needing to put

1:10:53together a lot of disperate owners or

1:10:56taking something that's zoned

1:10:58residential and coming to you all or the

1:11:00city of Winston Salem for a

1:11:02reasonzoning. But in terms of sites that

1:11:04are kind of ready to go, there doesn't

1:11:07appear to be too many that meet all the

1:11:09necessary criteria.

1:11:13One final point that I'll make is as a

1:11:16result of legal considerations, very few

1:11:18options exist to modify this current

1:11:21framework that I've mentioned for

1:11:22reviewing and permitting data centers.

1:11:25Since we've already kind of picked a

1:11:28strategy, so to speak, for classifying

1:11:29and regulating these in light of the

1:11:32downzoning prohibitions that the county

1:11:34attorney is going to talk through in his

1:11:36presentation, there's not very much we

1:11:39can do differently than what we're

1:11:40already doing. So, with that, I'm going

1:11:43to turn it over to uh Bill Brewer and

1:11:46Court.

1:11:47Commissioner Bessie.

1:11:48>> Thank you. Before you do, um I'm looking

1:11:50back at the U

1:11:53current zoning framework. The list of

1:11:55services a 737

1:11:58computer programming, data processing,

1:12:01and other computer related services

1:12:03perin except computer programming,

1:12:06prepackaged software, and computer

1:12:09system design.

1:12:11Is that the only place this is

1:12:12mentioned?

1:12:13>> Those are the only places that are

1:12:15accepted from being services. A

1:12:18>> all right. Um well, is there a place in

1:12:22the UDO where the words data center

1:12:25appear?

1:12:26>> No.

1:12:29>> Uh one of the exceptions is computer

1:12:32system design. Are you familiar with AI

1:12:35technology?

1:12:37you know, would that involve computer

1:12:39system design?

1:12:41>> The way that we took this to read, and

1:12:43certainly I'm open to alternative

1:12:46interpretations, but we saw that more as

1:12:50actual software

1:12:53engineering for operating systems or for

1:12:56the actual computer hardware and things

1:12:59of that nature as opposed to cloud

1:13:02hosting of data.

1:13:06Um,

1:13:08have you reviewed the mortorium

1:13:10ordinances of any of the as of the 9th

1:13:14of this month included 14 counties and

1:13:1720 municipalities?

1:13:18>> Mr. Watkins uh is going to talk about

1:13:20that in his presentation and I'll defer

1:13:23to to him a little bit later.

1:13:25>> Thank you.

1:13:26>> Yep. Uh all right. Well, we've got uh

1:13:27Bill Brewer and Courtney Driver from

1:13:30City County Utilities up next.

1:13:34>> Thank you. Let me get Good afternoon,

1:13:36commissioners.

1:13:38>> Hello. Let's see.

1:13:42Okay, here we are. Um, so anytime

1:13:45there's new development um in our

1:13:47system, we want to look at two different

1:13:49we want to look at both the water on the

1:13:51the demands on the water side and on the

1:13:53wastewater side. So, I'm going to talk

1:13:54through on the water side first. So, our

1:13:57permitted capacity um currently is 91

1:13:59million gallons per day. That's our

1:14:01permitted um system capacity. Currently,

1:14:04we're operating at 67 million gallons a

1:14:06day. And I want to talk through that.

1:14:08Our Neielson water treatment plant in

1:14:10Clemens is undergoing renovations. It's

1:14:13our largest plant. It's 48 million

1:14:15gallons a day. And as we renovate that

1:14:17plant, we've got half the plant out of

1:14:19service. Um so 24 million gallons out of

1:14:22service while we renovate the other

1:14:23side. And then when that side was

1:14:25completed, we put it back in service.

1:14:27And then now we're renovating the other

1:14:29um 24 million gallons a day. That

1:14:31project is set to be complete next year.

1:14:34So I just wanted to let you know that

1:14:36right now we are at 67, but in about a

1:14:38year we'll be back to our normal uh

1:14:40permitted capacity of 91. Our average uh

1:14:43demand uh for last fiscal year was 38.1

1:14:48million gallons a day and our max day

1:14:51demand for that same uh time period was

1:14:5350.6 million gallons a day. And you can

1:14:56see the little bar chart um at the

1:14:58bottom of the slide that that shows

1:15:00those percentages. So sufficient

1:15:03capacity does exist for data centers,

1:15:06but it can um but large data centers can

1:15:10create concentrated long-term demands on

1:15:12our system that must be evaluated

1:15:14through modeling. So and location is

1:15:17important. So our our treatment

1:15:19facilities are permitted and have the

1:15:21capacity, but there could be a location

1:15:24that um a developer for a data center

1:15:26wanted to go that did not have the

1:15:28sufficient, you know, the right size

1:15:30pipe at the location. You know, it could

1:15:32be undersized and there could be

1:15:33additional infrastructure that they may

1:15:35have to to increase to meet that demand

1:15:38at that certain location.

1:15:40Um, I know there was um some questions

1:15:43the last time I spoke about our water

1:15:46shortage response plan in uh light of

1:15:48the recent drought that we had over the

1:15:51summer and we had to um implement

1:15:53voluntary water restrictions. I know the

1:15:55question was well how what would a data

1:15:58center how would that impact those

1:16:00restrictions? So we we look at four

1:16:02different triggers when we're going um

1:16:04into um restrictions. We look at the

1:16:07drought status the of North Carolina

1:16:09drought status. Uh we look at system

1:16:11demand. So that's our overall system

1:16:13demand. And again right now we're at

1:16:1538%.

1:16:16Um or sorry 41.9%.

1:16:20Uh and then there's the level at

1:16:22Kurtcott Reservoir in Wils County and

1:16:25then the the flow in the Yaken River. So

1:16:27those are the four um triggers that we

1:16:30look at. Again demand would be one would

1:16:33would be the trigger that we look at. Of

1:16:35course, we have a lot of capacity, but

1:16:37as we grow and um continue to serve more

1:16:41and more infrastructure or more and more

1:16:42in the community, you know, that will

1:16:45that will reduce

1:16:49uh on the wastewater side. So, um under

1:16:52our sewer use policy, a data center

1:16:55would likely be classified as what we

1:16:56call a significant industrial user. And

1:16:59our s significant industrial user

1:17:01designation would require a permit

1:17:04industrial pre-treatment oversighted

1:17:07oversight which requires routine

1:17:09compliance monitoring. Sampling

1:17:11requirements would include uh

1:17:13contaminant monitoring including POS

1:17:16utility. The utility will review um

1:17:18would focus on wastewater volume,

1:17:20temperature, chemical usage, blowdown

1:17:23streams and potential impacts to the

1:17:24treatment process. So, we look at all

1:17:26that before we permit a new SIU. And if

1:17:29there are things that we um that would

1:17:32upset our treatment process, we would

1:17:34require on-site treatment before it ever

1:17:36gets discharged to our system.

1:17:39Um site specifics um hydraulics,

1:17:42treatment valuations, and overall

1:17:44available system capacity would would

1:17:46need to be evaluated as well. On the

1:17:48wastewater side, our um capacity, we

1:17:51don't have as much capacity as we do on

1:17:53the on the water side. Our average

1:17:55demand is around 31.5 million gallons a

1:17:58day. Uh the max day demand is around 56.

1:18:02Um and our our current system capacity

1:18:06for both plants because we have two

1:18:07water treatment wastewater treatment

1:18:08plants is around 51 million gallons a

1:18:11day. Um so that's that's where we're at

1:18:14as far as um the water and sewer um um

1:18:18capacity for the system. And I'm happy

1:18:20to answer any questions. And I do have

1:18:22Bill Brewer with me who is our deputy

1:18:24director over treatment if you have any

1:18:26technical questions.

1:18:28>> Commissioner Bassie,

1:18:29>> thank you. Um, reading back uh the 2526

1:18:33average demand in terms of the

1:18:35wastewater treatment

1:18:37>> was 31.5 million, but it says the

1:18:40maximum day demand was 56.1 million

1:18:43gallons a day

1:18:45>> and the current system capacity is 51

1:18:48million gallons. How did you deal with

1:18:49that? So we if we have wet weather

1:18:52events where we have a surge of of um

1:18:54demand from like a rain event, we have

1:18:57day tanks and ways to handle um surges

1:19:01like that on our property and so we can

1:19:02release the we hold the flow basically

1:19:04and release it through the plant at a at

1:19:07a slower rate so that we're not

1:19:08exceeding um the permitted.

1:19:11>> Do you have an approximate storage

1:19:13capacity for those uh

1:19:14>> I'm sorry.

1:19:15>> I'm sorry. Do you have an approximate

1:19:16storage capacity for those um tanks? Do

1:19:19you know how much the day tanks hold?

1:19:21>> No, I don't. We could find out for you.

1:19:23>> Right. But at least the raw numbers

1:19:25suggest that you're that there have been

1:19:27times that you've been over capacity uh

1:19:29in terms of the input to the system, at

1:19:32least on a surge basis.

1:19:34>> Yes. Good afternoon, Madame Chair and

1:19:37members of the commission. Courtney is

1:19:38absolutely right. The system is designed

1:19:41to pass a certain amount of flow in

1:19:43those surges, and that's what you're

1:19:45seeing in those numbers. Um but on a

1:19:48routine basis is what the state looks

1:19:50like as looks at it as far as regulatory

1:19:53basis goes.

1:19:55>> Well, they they also look at occasions

1:19:57where there overflows from the system

1:19:59too. So I know this is a pretty good

1:20:00system we have here thankfully. But um I

1:20:04I I've been in a state regulatory

1:20:08position when we were dealing with uh uh

1:20:11utilities that were routinely

1:20:12overflowing in there.

1:20:14Um I do want to um add to we are in our

1:20:19master planning effort we do on the

1:20:22wastewater side we are in the near

1:20:24future we are going to have to look at

1:20:25our capacity needs uh there there's the

1:20:28state looks at if we're at 80% at

1:20:31capacity we have to start planning and

1:20:34at 85 we have to start design and once

1:20:36we uh reach 90% we have to be under

1:20:39construction. So we're at 61 62 right

1:20:42now. So we are constantly evaluating

1:20:44that and then the next 10 years or so we

1:20:47will be looking um potentially at

1:20:49upgrading on the wastewater side our

1:20:51capacity.

1:20:52>> What's the rough picture of uh what a

1:20:54new uh

1:20:57wastewater you know

1:21:00domestic waste wastewater treatment

1:21:02facility would have. You know that off

1:21:04the top I don't know those numbers.

1:21:06Could you clarify the question, please?

1:21:08>> About how much would it cost to build

1:21:09one of the plants that we would be

1:21:10building?

1:21:12>> Um,

1:21:13I'm really reluctant to say, but it's

1:21:15going to be expensive. Um, we, as C

1:21:19Courtney mentioned, our our collection

1:21:21system master plan indicates that we

1:21:24need to make capacity increases around

1:21:262032.

1:21:29We've also got the High Rock Lake

1:21:31nutrient management plan coming which is

1:21:34going to dictate um how much of

1:21:36phosphorus and nitrogen we have to

1:21:38remove. So I'm very reluctant to say a

1:21:41number but it's it's going to be a

1:21:43significant number to make those two

1:21:45upgrades.

1:21:47>> Wild guess 20 million 30 million $50

1:21:50million.

1:21:51>> Uh I don't think you have enough zeros

1:21:53in those numbers. [laughter]

1:21:56>> Thank you. Um, a separate question if I

1:21:58may. Uh, you mentioned that, um, in the

1:22:00pre-treatment, uh, permits, um, one of

1:22:04the, uh, one of the things that you

1:22:06would be looking at would be, uh,

1:22:09chemicals such as PIFAs.

1:22:12>> Uh, currently uh, do we have uh,

1:22:16treatment plants for our domestic

1:22:18wastewater that have an effective

1:22:21removal system for PIFAs?

1:22:24At our current wastewater treatment

1:22:26plants, do we have The question is at

1:22:28our current wastewater treatment plant,

1:22:29do we have um

1:22:31>> are we effectively removing

1:22:32>> removing?

1:22:36>> Um so so currently our POS numbers on

1:22:39our discharge are fairly low.

1:22:42>> Um but our we do not have a treatment

1:22:45that effectively removes POS altogether.

1:22:48>> That's kind of a statewide problem, but

1:22:50actually it's a nationwide problem,

1:22:51isn't it?

1:22:52>> Yes, sir.

1:22:53Are you familiar with any of the hypers

1:22:56scale data center um water reuse systems

1:23:00that actually use PISA as a treatment

1:23:03for their water that they use for

1:23:05cooling?

1:23:06>> I personally am not other than doing

1:23:09some quick Google searches and um you

1:23:12know they show that some do depending on

1:23:15the type of treatment that they use

1:23:16within their facilities but I I do not.

1:23:19And that's the kind of question that

1:23:20we'd need more research time. But I just

1:23:23off the top of my head, I seem to recall

1:23:24that there was a a um a proprietary

1:23:27process that Apple was using in its new

1:23:29facilities that involved pas.

1:23:32>> Yeah, I'm not familiar.

1:23:33>> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

1:23:36>> Anything else?

1:23:37>> I do have a a question. Um on the first

1:23:40slide of the utilities portion, I think

1:23:42it's the fourth point. What does it mean

1:23:46um long-term demands that must be

1:23:50evaluated through modeling? What does

1:23:52evaluated through modeling mean?

1:23:55>> So, we have what we call a a water

1:23:58hydraulic model. And so anytime we have

1:24:00big users or a lot of demand on the

1:24:03system, we're going to run those

1:24:05scenarios through our model to tell to

1:24:08say what is it going to do at the point

1:24:10of entry all the way down to the plant

1:24:12and what what um you know infrastructure

1:24:15improvements do we need to make. So

1:24:17that's what that's what that's meant to

1:24:19say. And again, we have the permitted

1:24:21capacity. We have a lot of capacity on

1:24:23the water side as you can see. And

1:24:24that's one thing that we've really um um

1:24:28really bragged about I guess in our

1:24:29community. Uh but it location is

1:24:32important as far as where exactly the

1:24:35development would go and you've got to

1:24:37look at that model all the way through

1:24:38the system to those plants. So how do

1:24:40you get it from point A to point B and

1:24:43the infrastructure in between those you

1:24:45would have to be evaluated. Does that

1:24:47answer your question? Yes.

1:24:52about the questions.

1:24:54Okay, thank you.

1:25:06In preparing for this presentation, I

1:25:08reached out to Duke Energy to get their

1:25:10comments around energy infrastructure.

1:25:12They did not have any new comments to

1:25:14share. Um, so what is provided is

1:25:17information that has been given to us

1:25:19previously from Duke Energy. This is a

1:25:22summary of their statements.

1:25:26Um, next we will hear from the county

1:25:29attorney around legal considerations.

1:25:40Good afternoon, commissioners. Um, the

1:25:43UDO does have a definition for computer

1:25:45da computer data center. It's defined

1:25:47very broadly. Um it's defined as a

1:25:50category. The actual definition says a

1:25:53category of services business A. There's

1:25:56a separate statement that says services

1:25:59business A is now just called services

1:26:01A. So um it's a category of services A

1:26:05in which the primary service is data

1:26:07processing. This type of facility is

1:26:10primarily devoted for computers with

1:26:13minimal employment required for

1:26:15monitoring and servicing. So there's no

1:26:19size limitation in this definition.

1:26:22um which

1:26:24if if you're trying if you have a use

1:26:27what you do is you try to you have to

1:26:28fit it into the closest one in the UDO

1:26:32and since there is a definition with for

1:26:34data center any size of data center

1:26:37would fit this definition and the legal

1:26:40um principle is that a specific

1:26:43provision is generally going to govern

1:26:46over a more general provision. though

1:26:48because we do have a definition for a

1:26:51data computer data center and we say

1:26:53that fits in services A that's what we

1:26:56have to go with um

1:27:00so um

1:27:04so there many there are many zoning

1:27:06districts which do allow data centers um

1:27:08as uh Kirk was was showing us there

1:27:11several in the county already um and as

1:27:15he also stated that the decision ision

1:27:17to um within those districts the

1:27:20decision is an administrative decision

1:27:23made by staff. It's not based on their

1:27:25discretion.

1:27:28So um as as you're all aware under um

1:27:32NCGS uh 160D-107

1:27:36uh counties have a limited ability to

1:27:38issue moratoria.

1:27:40um a temporary moratorum may be um

1:27:44provided um but it's but it needs to be

1:27:47narrowly nar narrowly tailored. So it's

1:27:51um

1:27:53the duration and I've highlighted that

1:27:54the duration may not exceed the period

1:27:57of time necessary to correct modify or

1:27:59resolve such conditions which warrant

1:28:02the imposition of the moratorum.

1:28:06And specifically the moratorum must list

1:28:09these four um factors. They must list

1:28:12the problems necessitating the

1:28:13moratorium and why there is no

1:28:15alternative.

1:28:16Uh which two which developmental

1:28:19approvals are subject to the moratorum

1:28:21and how the moratorum will address the

1:28:23problems. Three the date of the

1:28:25moratorum termination and the reasons

1:28:27why the specific time period is

1:28:29necessary. And finally four the schedule

1:28:33of actions to be taken during the

1:28:35moratorum. So if the county were to go

1:28:38forward with some type of moratorum, it

1:28:40would have to, you know, do some

1:28:41research ahead of time to specifically

1:28:44define and meet these uh four factors.

1:28:49So So the problem is um is as I'm I'm

1:28:52I'm sure I'm a broken record, but

1:28:54downzoning, the prohibition of

1:28:55downzoning by government is what is

1:28:57holding us back from having much

1:28:59authority to make zoning changes. So

1:29:02downzoning has um within the last couple

1:29:06years been defined in 160D-601

1:29:10subp part D where it says without the

1:29:13consent of all property owners in

1:29:16identically zoned districts across the

1:29:18county. So that would mean if you're

1:29:21looking at say limited industrial, you'd

1:29:23have to look at every limited industrial

1:29:25zoning in for Scythe County and you'd

1:29:27have to get every property owner in

1:29:30every LI district to to sign and say

1:29:33yes, I agree to this change. So it

1:29:36without that the county may not amend

1:29:38its owner zoning regulations uh that do

1:29:41one of these three things. Uh decrease

1:29:45the density of development. So that

1:29:47would be in say increasing setbacks

1:29:51um or decreasing a building size that's

1:29:53going to decrease the density that you

1:29:54can develop. Uh number two is reduce a

1:29:58permitted use in a zoning district. So

1:30:01like banning an allowed use. So saying

1:30:03you no longer can have a data center in

1:30:07LI that would be reducing a use. And

1:30:10finally uh creating a nonconforming use.

1:30:13So that would be um saying something

1:30:15that already exists has to shut down. So

1:30:17you can't do any of those.

1:30:21So um you know I've been um talking to

1:30:25Chris and and other folks in planning

1:30:27and and other folks across the state and

1:30:29trying to figure out if there's any

1:30:32clever way to kind of get around this

1:30:34downzoning. Um and and the problem is in

1:30:37any clever way is really tends to be a

1:30:40restriction of use. And so I thought,

1:30:43you know, maybe we could, right now it's

1:30:45an administrative permit. Well, maybe we

1:30:47could change it to a special use permit.

1:30:50Well, that's a restriction because it's

1:30:52much much harder to get a special use

1:30:54permit than it is an administrative

1:30:57um permit. And also it would be

1:30:59practically

1:31:02impossible to do because

1:31:05you know we've gone through special use

1:31:07permit hearings and as I keep telling

1:31:08you um in those you're acting like a

1:31:12judge and so if if for example one of

1:31:14you went out and said something like I'm

1:31:16against um hypers scale data centers

1:31:19well then you're biased. So then then

1:31:21you can't be a judge and so that's not a

1:31:24good thing. and and I I certainly

1:31:26wouldn't want to tell you not to talk

1:31:27about data centers. Um, another change

1:31:31could be saying that it's not allowed

1:31:34unless you get a reszoning, but again,

1:31:36that's restricting the use because right

1:31:38now it's currently allowed just by

1:31:39getting an administrative uh permit. So,

1:31:43the problem with any of those planning

1:31:47things I've been able to to think up is

1:31:49is they they seem like they would be

1:31:52probably be considered a downzoning.

1:31:56So, um the challenge is um is that

1:31:59they're you know, as I've said, data

1:32:01centers are currently allowed in in

1:32:02certain zoning districts. Um any

1:32:04tightening or restriction could be

1:32:07considered downzoning. It could be

1:32:08considered illegal. and and and because

1:32:12of more recent changes by the state,

1:32:15uh someone has three years to challenge

1:32:17that. If if you make a change, they have

1:32:19a three-year statute of limitation. It

1:32:21used to be one year. Um

1:32:25so so a lot of a lot of what we would do

1:32:27a lot of what we might do to try to

1:32:30regulate a data center which might make

1:32:32sense uh might address the density

1:32:36um which would violate uh 601D1

1:32:40or it might forbid an allowable use

1:32:43which would violate uh probably violate

1:32:45601D2.

1:32:47Um and and as I stated in the

1:32:50highlighted language from the statute, a

1:32:52moratorium is allowed only for the time

1:32:54necessary to correct, modify or resolve

1:32:56such conditions necessitating the

1:32:58moratorum, but the state has restricted

1:33:01what we can do to to to address that. So

1:33:05even though it might make sense, it's

1:33:07it's difficult.

1:33:09Um finally, there there have been some

1:33:12proposed legislative actions and and

1:33:14I'll cut to the chase. None of these

1:33:16have become law, but um there was

1:33:19something the White House announced

1:33:21called the Federal Rate Payer Protection

1:33:24Pledge, and then some folks introduced

1:33:27it in the House and the Senate. So, it

1:33:28would be the same thing, but an act,

1:33:31which would bar utilities from raising

1:33:33rates based on the construction of a

1:33:35data center. Um, Congress hasn't passed

1:33:38anything and the pledge is voluntary.

1:33:40So, that really has no effect. um no no

1:33:44binding effect. Um there have been a

1:33:47couple of bills in North Carolina

1:33:50and um what's aggravating is that a bill

1:33:53can pass one house unanimously and the

1:33:56other house just not consider it. And so

1:33:58that's happened to both of these and

1:33:59they flip-flopped even though they're

1:34:00both Senate bills. Uh the Senate bill

1:34:03730 it keeps changing. The latest

1:34:07version looks pretty good in that it

1:34:09would give local governments the

1:34:11authority to determine sighting of data

1:34:14center based on, you know, whether it's

1:34:16consistent with their UDO, air quality,

1:34:18noise, environmental concerns. So, it

1:34:21passed the House, but that was not taken

1:34:23up by the Senate. Um, the last bill is

1:34:28um Senate Bill 587, which was an

1:34:32especially good bill. It was um getting

1:34:37rid of the prohibition on downzoning and

1:34:39it passed the House

1:34:42and then um I'm sorry, it passed the

1:34:44Senate. It passed the Senate and then it

1:34:46went to the House and it was it was

1:34:48subject to what they call a gut and

1:34:50replace. And so they take a bill that's

1:34:52passed, they take everything out of it

1:34:54and they replace the wording and so they

1:34:58replaced it with a bill about wake

1:35:00surfing. So anyhow, so that didn't go

1:35:04anywhere either. So there there are some

1:35:07good bills out there. They just haven't

1:35:09become law at this point. Um and and

1:35:11I've I've been saying this many many

1:35:14times. Um it's unfortunate that the

1:35:16state has kind of bent over backwards to

1:35:19take away a lot of your authority.

1:35:23So I'm happy to answer any questions or

1:35:25anyone else. I'm sure

1:35:27>> questions. got several, but let me let

1:35:30somebody else go first.

1:35:32>> Mine should be very easy. This is a

1:35:34great presentation. It was helpful

1:35:36definitely for me. This isn't a question

1:35:38for any of the presenters, but for our

1:35:40county manager and all of the

1:35:42presentation that happened today and um

1:35:45the roles and responsibilities of a

1:35:47commissioner is to evaluate the taxes. I

1:35:50did not see what the tax revenue was or

1:35:53did I miss that? Um, we did not put

1:35:56anything um in there about taxes. We um

1:36:00we certainly could. We were really

1:36:02trying to kind of start with the basics

1:36:04of just kind of what we currently um can

1:36:07and cannot do. But certainly if there um

1:36:10was a data center to come that would

1:36:13increase revenue um for our county. And

1:36:16I think it's important for me and the

1:36:19constituents that I served for them to

1:36:21know because it did appear that some of

1:36:23these centers are in district A. And in

1:36:26terms of what that tax revenue is

1:36:28bringing into the district,

1:36:30>> um we could definitely follow up with um

1:36:32trying to figure out the tax revenue of

1:36:35the current data centers. Um we'd be

1:36:38speculating on any new, but at the end

1:36:40of the day, I mean, any data center that

1:36:42comes will provide additional revenue. I

1:36:44do just also want to be clear, you know,

1:36:46we were really really careful on the

1:36:48staff side. We are not trying to take

1:36:50any position. We are just trying to

1:36:52provide education and so we were just

1:36:56>> Yes. But the money is

1:36:58important.

1:36:59>> It's relevant. Yes, ma'am.

1:37:00>> Very so. Thank you.

1:37:03>> Staff did a great job. I appreciate each

1:37:06of you what you did. Gordon, given your

1:37:10stature with the other county attorneys

1:37:12in the state, and I'm sure you must be

1:37:15familiar with we talked about bills and

1:37:17regulations, familiar with the class

1:37:19action lawsuits that have been filed

1:37:22against uh Alamance County. I think they

1:37:24threw Graham in Burlington in there as

1:37:27well. Um with regard to the unacceptable

1:37:30levels of the PAS, is that

1:37:33you have some information about that? I

1:37:36know our county apparently has very uh

1:37:39manageable or low levels in that regard.

1:37:42>> I I I don't know any spec as a mere down

1:37:46payment on what they're paying to clean

1:37:48up from POS contamination. Um it's this

1:37:52regulation of PEOS is a hot dispute at

1:37:54both the state and federal levels with

1:37:58no consensus in sight because it's so

1:38:01difficult to uh uh to filter these out

1:38:06of standard wastewater treatment at

1:38:09standard standard wastewater treatment

1:38:11plants. uh and the the colloquial name

1:38:15for the chemicals of which POS is a

1:38:17prominent category are for is forever

1:38:20chemicals. Basically, they do not break

1:38:21down in the environment and they

1:38:23bioaccumulate as well. Um but I had uh

1:38:28some questions uh for our attorney as an

1:38:31attorney. Um have you had a chance to

1:38:34review the um uh the moratorum that have

1:38:38been adopted? Uh now as of the 9th, this

1:38:44may have increased by one or two in the

1:38:45last few days, but 14 counties including

1:38:49Alamance, Durham, Orange, uh Yadkin,

1:38:53Davyy, Rowan, and Suriri counties.

1:38:57>> I I I've read several of them. Yes. How

1:39:00did they address the um the problems

1:39:02that uh that you referenced with regard

1:39:04to uh basically noting a a plan of

1:39:08attack on what we would be doing and how

1:39:10long we'd need to do it.

1:39:12>> They they didn't have great specifics.

1:39:15They just picked a time period and said

1:39:17they were going to address certain

1:39:18things, but I don't know what their

1:39:20UDO's look like. So I don't know whether

1:39:23they were faced with the same thing as

1:39:24us. I I have heard not officially, but

1:39:28I've heard from some of them that

1:39:30they're just kind of doing it even

1:39:32though they know it may not withstand

1:39:34legal challenge and there have been

1:39:35legal challenges against at least some

1:39:38of them. But

1:39:40um

1:39:42one provision that's pretty common uh in

1:39:46UDO changes is grandfather clause

1:39:50um

1:39:51where you say that existing facilities.

1:39:54Is there any reason you couldn't say

1:39:55existing locations that would be

1:39:58eligible for um uh construction of a uh

1:40:03of a data center under the present

1:40:05definition are exempted from this

1:40:07requirement. So, it's not a downzoning

1:40:09of any place.

1:40:10>> Well, that

1:40:13would that would not be a downzoning

1:40:15because you're not taking away any use,

1:40:17but that would mean you're still leaving

1:40:19a lot of property where a data center

1:40:22could be established immediately. But if

1:40:24if

1:40:25>> if it's not available now, then it would

1:40:28have to have a reasonzoning. And a

1:40:30resoning comes before you. And so

1:40:34that's not really

1:40:37I was going to say as part of our

1:40:39preparation when we met last week I

1:40:41speculated that there were probably

1:40:4210,000 parcels that were zoned one of

1:40:45the 15 categories within forcy county

1:40:48when we went back Kirk worked with our

1:40:50GIS team and they did an analysis of

1:40:53properties that are currently zoned one

1:40:56of the standard districts and also they

1:40:58threw in the ones that were also either

1:41:00limited or special use because a lot of

1:41:02those would have had services a because

1:41:04generally speaking that's not a highly

1:41:06objectionable use till you start

1:41:08thinking about data centers. I want to

1:41:09say the overall number of properties

1:41:12that were zoned either general use,

1:41:15limited use, or special use for those 15

1:41:17categories was 11,500 parcels. So that's

1:41:20what and as the attorney just said, if

1:41:23you exempted those parcels,

1:41:26then

1:41:27you know, someone theoretically could do

1:41:29it in one of those 11,500 parcels. And

1:41:32if you

1:41:34then had to reszone, it would be coming

1:41:35to the elected body anyway. Well, but we

1:41:39did have a report from staff today that

1:41:43there were probably only four places

1:41:46they were able to identify where there

1:41:48was a combination of sufficient property

1:41:51zoned appropriately

1:41:53um and access to uh the uh water and

1:41:57sewer and and power um facilities

1:42:01necessary to do it without reszoning.

1:42:04Yeah, I think I think that may be good

1:42:06news or bad news depending on how you

1:42:09come down on this issue. There may not

1:42:11be good locations outside of municipal

1:42:16property to to put a data center. Uh I I

1:42:18mean we you see some counties that are

1:42:22doing things that may sound good, but

1:42:25you you know like in Yadkin County, they

1:42:27passed a moratorum. Well, there's a

1:42:30proposal to put two data centers in

1:42:32Yadkinville,

1:42:33which is in Yadkin County, but it's not

1:42:35subject to the jurisdiction of the

1:42:37county board of commissioners. So, I'm

1:42:39not really sure what they accomplished

1:42:40there, but

1:42:42um at any rate though, I mean, we we can

1:42:45discuss back and forth uh whether

1:42:48there's a value in it. I would suggest

1:42:50that there is. uh and um and still agree

1:42:55that there are things we could legally

1:42:58do that would affect as a practical

1:43:02matter the locations that uh someone's

1:43:05going to bother to come to us with a

1:43:06reasonzoning request. We already say,

1:43:08well, um, we're we're considering the

1:43:12property that's not already zoned to

1:43:14allow this

1:43:16uh as inappropriate unless it's in

1:43:20say general industrial category.

1:43:26>> Well, it's um I mean right now there are

1:43:2815 categories that it could go in, not

1:43:30just general industrial.

1:43:32>> Exactly. And so if we say all right uh

1:43:35from the effective date of this change

1:43:38to the UDO

1:43:40uh we are going to adopt

1:43:43uh a definition separate from the

1:43:46current services a definition of what

1:43:49constitutes a hypers scale data center

1:43:52>> and say that those

1:43:55um

1:43:56are only going to be allowed in

1:44:00properties uh zone GI

1:44:03and that any properties that um would be

1:44:07prohibited by state law from uh the down

1:44:11from a downzoning provision relevant to

1:44:14hypers scale data centers or to data

1:44:16centers as currently defined in the

1:44:18ordinance. They're exempted from that.

1:44:20>> Yeah. And that's something we could

1:44:22explore if the board's interested.

1:44:28>> Questions?

1:44:30>> Thank you. Thank you, Gordon.

1:44:33>> I'm sure I have some comments if I may.

1:44:35>> I'm sure you do. Go.

1:44:36>> All right. Thanks very much. I

1:44:38appreciate your indulgence. Thank you

1:44:39for putting the staff report on current

1:44:43information they had on today's um

1:44:47today's agenda. I I think it's probably

1:44:48pretty clear that

1:44:50uh this is a good start on information,

1:44:54but not nearly the breadth of

1:44:57information that we would want before

1:44:59taking action on this matter. Uh and we

1:45:03know that more proposals are coming uh

1:45:06probably in for Scythe County and

1:45:09probably soon. Um,

1:45:12I'm suggesting that we need a pause on

1:45:15new hypers scale data center development

1:45:17here in order to give us the time we

1:45:20need to consider these questions, look

1:45:23at alternatives, look at appropriate

1:45:25standards uh, and act. Uh I think that

1:45:30the the natural tool that we have for

1:45:32that is one that has already been used

1:45:35by 14 counties uh in North Carolina of a

1:45:38wide, you know, population range. Uh and

1:45:42other, you know, nearby cities including

1:45:45Greensboro and Charlotte. Um and I would

1:45:49like to see this put on our agenda for

1:45:52discussion as a possibility

1:45:54on the 28th.

1:45:57Um, I know that we don't take binding

1:46:00votes uh at our um our briefings, but

1:46:06I've been suggesting this for a few

1:46:08weeks now and you not making much

1:46:11headway on informal suggestion. I would

1:46:14appreciate the opportunity to have a

1:46:15show of hands to folks here today who

1:46:17would like to see this set on the 28th

1:46:20for discussion.

1:46:23use the uh

1:46:25let's just have a little more

1:46:27discussion. Um

1:46:30what do you mean by the word pause?

1:46:33>> Pause means a moratorum on approvals. Um

1:46:37and it would be for the specified period

1:46:39set. Um the the the periods range from

1:46:44uh 150 days in Charlotte that they are

1:46:47considering, you know, uh extending for

1:46:51a full year after that, but would

1:46:53require an additional vote to a year uh

1:46:56in other locations. Uh we could set the

1:47:00time limit and I think it would be

1:47:01meaningful to do one as short as six

1:47:03months. Well, is are you using the word

1:47:08pause instead of moratorum?

1:47:10>> Actually, I'm just using the word pause

1:47:12to define what a moratorum means. For

1:47:15the lay audience listening out there,

1:47:18what do we mean by moratorium? Mortorium

1:47:20doesn't mean you don't ever allow this.

1:47:22It means you have a time period

1:47:25that you don't allow it during. And the

1:47:28the purpose of the time period of the

1:47:31pause of the moratorum is to give you

1:47:33chance uh time to do the research you

1:47:37need to determine do we have a problem?

1:47:41What could we do to fix it? Uh and to

1:47:44move forward with that that plan. Um and

1:47:47that's what I'm encouraging us to do.

1:47:52>> Uh Commissioner Bessie, I understand

1:47:55what you're saying. Um, and I understand

1:47:57that you're an attorney also. Um, but I

1:48:01have a lot of faith in our attorney and

1:48:04I think he uh has already talked to us

1:48:08several times about moratoriums and

1:48:12downzoning and whatnot. Um,

1:48:16I believe in property rights and I think

1:48:18there may be folks out there right now

1:48:21who are already in a zoned area. Um, and

1:48:26for us to do a moratorum would interfere

1:48:29with their property rights. So, I I'm

1:48:32not going to vote for uh your your

1:48:36suggestion.

1:48:37>> I I absolutely respect that. Madam

1:48:39Chair, may I get a show of hands with

1:48:41folks who would vote for it?

1:48:42>> Before we get the show of hands, can I

1:48:45get a um sort of a concise request? So,

1:48:48are you asking Well, let me Could you

1:48:51just reiterate a concise request of what

1:48:53you're asking the commissioners? I'm

1:48:54asking us to put on our agenda for the

1:48:57meeting of September 28th the question

1:48:59of whether we wish to adopt a moratorum

1:49:03on the location of new hypers scale data

1:49:06centers uh in for county.

1:49:09>> And if I could um Commissioner Bessie

1:49:13asks Commissioner Lynville was he having

1:49:16pause

1:49:18because of the word pause or moratorum?

1:49:22Well, I'm trying to

1:49:27[sighs]

1:49:29I got my own ideas and I'll just we'll

1:49:33see where we go from uh here. I I'll

1:49:36just say this. [snorts]

1:49:39I don't know where it clarified any or

1:49:41not. [clears throat]

1:49:42when you uh mention about uh

1:49:50just the straw pole so to speak

1:49:53of [clears throat]

1:49:56to discuss a matter as you're talking

1:49:58about the next meeting I believe

1:50:01uh

1:50:03then to um

1:50:07if your vote now is well yeah go along

1:50:11with uh pause, but then the uh motion is

1:50:18going to come up

1:50:20for vote on a moratorum. And I've done

1:50:24Yeah, I've been here a few days longer

1:50:27than the rest of you. And I have done

1:50:30seen if if you uh agree on certain

1:50:35things to get more information

1:50:38to some you're automatically committing

1:50:41yourself to that. I'm not going to do

1:50:43that. Not going to commit that way. But

1:50:47now

1:50:49at the same time we discussed this

1:50:52couple the same day. Uh, Commissioner

1:50:56Woodbury wanted information similar to

1:50:59what we got today. I don't know

1:51:01specifically if that covered, but the

1:51:04kind of stuff we got today. Now,

1:51:08uh, I'm open for any information that

1:51:13uh,

1:51:14comes along or that can be found,

1:51:19but I'm not going to go along with the

1:51:21uh, pause of the moratorum. I'm I'm not

1:51:24going to get in the same

1:51:27I don't intend to get on in a trap. I

1:51:29might, but I'm not intending to.

1:51:32>> So, with that being said, Commissioner

1:51:34Bessie, I'm going to support you.

1:51:36However, I think we just need to clarify

1:51:39what the pause

1:51:42is and the time frame and that would be

1:51:46helpful for us

1:51:47>> and and that would all have to be ready

1:51:49by our discussion meeting on the 28th.

1:51:52so that it would be a clear time frame

1:51:55uh and plan of action.

1:51:57>> So essentially this is

1:51:59um an agenda item that would ask for a

1:52:03vote by the commissioners to support a

1:52:06moratorial that um the county attorney

1:52:11would propose to us based on what our

1:52:15authority is to put in place a

1:52:18moratorum. I would not want us to vote

1:52:21on anything that our attorney told us

1:52:23was illegal.

1:52:25>> Okay. Yeah, I I can support that.

1:52:29>> Well, out of deference to um our county

1:52:32attorney, uh and also I think in an

1:52:36effort to be somewhat consistent with

1:52:38what I thought I heard from Commissioner

1:52:41Lynville, um these data centers are

1:52:44problematic. You got zoning, land use,

1:52:47environmental, utility considerations,

1:52:50noise ordinances, conditional use

1:52:53permitting. I would be more comfortable

1:52:56addressing a specific set of project

1:53:00conditions which we don't have in front

1:53:02of us now.

1:53:06I think that's a reasonable objection

1:53:07and I would want to include in our

1:53:10exploration during a defined moratorum

1:53:13period alternatives such as

1:53:16strengthening the noise ordinance to

1:53:18appropriately um and strengthening

1:53:21requirements for acceptance of

1:53:24pre-treatment um discharges over a

1:53:28certain does

1:53:36>> and I would kind of defer back to what

1:53:41um our county attorney has said. Uh I

1:53:44would, you know, we all took an oath of

1:53:46office about upholding the laws of North

1:53:49Carolina. So, and Commissioner Bessie,

1:53:52you just mentioned that. So my only

1:53:55concern is I don't want to go down a

1:53:57path that's going to trap us. I do want

1:54:00to make sure that we do uphold what the

1:54:02legislature has directed us to do and

1:54:04what the laws of North Carolina have

1:54:06directed us to do. Not opposed to a

1:54:09moratorum. I just want to make sure that

1:54:12we take the guidance that is given so we

1:54:16do not set ourselves up as a board to

1:54:20any type of lawsuit or legal issues.

1:54:23Fair.

1:54:25>> Correct.

1:54:26>> Commissioner Messi, do you have in mind

1:54:28um the pause period?

1:54:31>> Um my preference would be one year, but

1:54:35uh I think that we could at least do a

1:54:38halfway decent job with six months.

1:54:40>> Fair enough. Thank you.

1:54:42And as you mentioned the um

1:54:45that period I think from the a legal

1:54:48standpoint we would have to have

1:54:50reasoning and we would have to have

1:54:53milestones.

1:54:55Now I would understand if if we were to

1:54:58have a moratorum and we ended up having

1:55:00to extend it because those milestones

1:55:03and reasoning were not met. But I think

1:55:06the staff is going to really need to

1:55:08come up with what those milestones are

1:55:12and what those parameters are because I

1:55:15wouldn't want us just to say 6 months

1:55:17because another county has done that. I

1:55:19would want to make sure that if we said

1:55:21three months or six months or or

1:55:24whatever that is is that the staff feels

1:55:27like they are going to be able to

1:55:28deliver something back to us so we can

1:55:32make an informed decision.

1:55:34>> I feel very confident and um some of the

1:55:37suggestions that Commissioner Gray has

1:55:39already presented and these are two

1:55:41legal eagles. I think that them two

1:55:43getting together and making sure that

1:55:45the appropriate language is given to

1:55:47Gordon and we're following the law that

1:55:51we should be fine for about 6 months.

1:55:53>> I would say on the staff side, we are

1:55:55going to need serious clarification. Um

1:55:57because our attorney is essentially

1:55:59saying we're limited in what we can do.

1:56:02He does not believe it that we legally

1:56:04can because of downzoning. And so if the

1:56:07moratorum must list the problems

1:56:09necessitating it, the developmental

1:56:11approvals, the date, the schedule of

1:56:13actions, like we are going to need to

1:56:15hear from the commissioners what you

1:56:17expect us to do because any of our

1:56:19recommendations would be restrictions.

1:56:22And we're not legally allowed to do

1:56:24those restrictions because of

1:56:25downzoning. And so I we are we are going

1:56:28to need clarification from the board on

1:56:31what you would like to see.

1:56:32>> I keep hearing the word moratorum versus

1:56:35the Paul. So, I think that that's a

1:56:36language that we should maybe explore.

1:56:40>> I madame county manager, I I assure you

1:56:43that I and Gray, if he's willing, can

1:56:47work with uh with our attorney uh and

1:56:50our appropriate departmental heads to

1:56:52put forward something that would meet

1:56:55the letter of the law for consideration.

1:56:59And I don't believe we can satisfy our

1:57:01county attorney without providing

1:57:03specific project conditions.

1:57:06Very good. What what I've heard is is

1:57:10and maybe I'm not listening well, but

1:57:12what I've heard is talking about um

1:57:16a moratorum

1:57:18outside of the zoning districts in which

1:57:22it's currently allowed.

1:57:26Now, now maybe I didn't hear that

1:57:27correctly, but that's what I heard.

1:57:29>> You, if I may, you heard that, sir, as

1:57:31um a suggestion for me as one

1:57:34possibility that could be adopted that

1:57:36would meet the letter of state law. I

1:57:38think other possibilities that could be

1:57:40adopted would be uh nonzoning

1:57:43um uh uh paths such as uh beefed up uh

1:57:49uh noise control ordinance specifics or

1:57:53uh additional requirements on acceptance

1:57:55of pre-treatment discharges uh that met

1:57:59certain criteria

1:58:01and and I would just say that noise is

1:58:04very very difficult to regulate and that

1:58:08might deter other manufacturing.

1:58:15>> Madame Chair, just let me be clear about

1:58:18one thing. I'm open for information,

1:58:22but

1:58:25I don't intend to go down Mr. Bess's

1:58:28path to get there. we can get it we can

1:58:30get information without doing that but

1:58:33there's uh

1:58:36so I'm just that's it I'm open for

1:58:39information we can continue to do do

1:58:42that from

1:58:44to keep on uh working on that but I'm

1:58:47just

1:58:48>> well commissioner

1:58:50let me say this to you if you raise your

1:58:53hand you're raising for a moratorum

1:58:56so that's all I'm saying to

1:58:58>> [laughter]

1:58:59>> you you're misunderstanding what I'm

1:59:02saying. I think we'll just wait and see.

1:59:04>> Madam Chair, what I'm suggesting, what

1:59:06I'm asking for is a vote to be scheduled

1:59:09uh on the 28th uh on a moratorum. A a

1:59:14raised hand today would not vote for a

1:59:16moratorum. It would vote for putting

1:59:18that on.

1:59:18>> It would vote for a moratorum. Mr.

1:59:20Bessie, I know how long you've talked

1:59:23about moratorums and I know what you're

1:59:26what what we're headed for.

1:59:28>> Well, as I

1:59:29>> It is the campaign season, so let's get

1:59:32it going.

1:59:33>> Gloria, you are out of order for that.

1:59:35>> No, I'm not. You are.

1:59:36>> I am telling the truth.

1:59:37>> You are out of order for that.

1:59:39>> No, I'm not.

1:59:40>> Madam Chair, may I call the question and

1:59:42have a show of hands?

1:59:43>> Absolutely.

1:59:44>> All right. And let me restate the motion

1:59:47if I may. The motion is to schedule for

1:59:50September 28 discussion uh on and

1:59:54potential action on a proposal for a

1:59:56moratorum

1:59:58um of six months duration uh including

2:00:01in the resolution the um uh the

2:00:05necessaries to meet the legal

2:00:07requirements.

2:00:13>> Oh is this did you get a second? I guess

2:00:16>> yeah second. Okay. Oh, now we in

2:00:20>> Can we Can we

2:00:21>> So, now we're in discussion.

2:00:23>> No.

2:00:24>> Okay. Because before we take the vote, I

2:00:26just wanted to I and I appreciate

2:00:29Chairwoman's

2:00:30Wizard Hunt's interpretation of where we

2:00:33are. But I'm not voting on a morator. I

2:00:36am voting to get it put on the agenda.

2:00:40This is my perspective. to get a

2:00:43moratorial put on our agenda for

2:00:46consideration.

2:00:48I think we all have said that based on

2:00:52what um what the our county attorney is

2:00:56proposing that's going to weigh heavily.

2:00:59It looks like we you know to you know to

2:01:02chair Wizzen Hunt's point it it may be a

2:01:05resolved issue because I think we have

2:01:07already heard from the attorney where we

2:01:10are but I think in with due

2:01:12consideration of my colleague to put it

2:01:15for the question formally. I am, you

2:01:18know, absolutely um willing to support

2:01:22putting it on our agenda to get a formal

2:01:27um moratorial put out here for us to

2:01:30vote on. That's how I interpret it. I

2:01:32may be wrong.

2:01:33>> That's exactly what I'm asking.

2:01:36>> And I'll have to echo somewhat what

2:01:39Commissioner Woodbury said on this. And

2:01:42I'll also have to echo that I'm going to

2:01:44have to have a lot of difference to our

2:01:47county attorney, especially based on the

2:01:50presentation that we have had today. I'm

2:01:53all for information and I know there's a

2:01:55lot of concerns out in this community

2:01:57about hyper data centers that are out

2:02:00there. But um like Commissioner

2:02:02Lynville, I want to listen. And I want

2:02:04to get more information

2:02:07uh about this,

2:02:09but I also want to get what legally that

2:02:12we can do. So getting more information,

2:02:16I'm going to say if if we've got to do

2:02:18what we got to do to get that, but that

2:02:20is not necessarily a vote on a moratorum

2:02:25without hearing what the legal

2:02:26ramifications of that are for our

2:02:28county.

2:02:31>> I think we heard that today.

2:02:35But we'll hear it again. Madam

2:02:37>> chair, can we have a vote? I

2:02:39>> It's your It's your desire

2:02:43on the motion to schedule

2:02:45>> not a motion. It's not a motion. It's

2:02:48just a straw vote.

2:02:49>> Oh, okay.

2:02:50>> Straw vote. Okay. All in favor of

2:02:51putting something on the agenda that as

2:02:53we discussed on the 28th.

2:02:57>> I think we counted four votes, Madam

2:02:59Chair.

2:03:00>> Fine. Okay. Do we have uh we have a

2:03:03close session?

2:03:05>> We do have three close sessions. Um I

2:03:08need to ask the board to consider a

2:03:09motion to go into close session to

2:03:10discuss three matters. One matter to

2:03:12consult with an attorney employed or

2:03:13retained by the public body in order to

2:03:15preserve the attorney client privilege

2:03:17between the attorney and the public

2:03:18body. Which privilege is hereby

2:03:20acknowledged pursuant to the provisions

2:03:21of North Carolina General Statutes

2:03:23143-318.11a3.

2:03:26and two matters relating to the location

2:03:28or expansion of industries or other

2:03:29businesses in the area served by the

2:03:31public body, including agreement on a

2:03:33tentative list of economic development

2:03:35incentives that may be offered by the

2:03:36public body and negotiations pursuant to

2:03:39the provisions of North Carolina General

2:03:40Statutes 143-318.1184.

2:03:43And since there's no other business to

2:03:45come before the board at this meeting,

2:03:46following the close session, the meeting

2:03:47will be adjourned.

2:03:48>> Move approval.

2:03:49>> Second.

2:03:51All in faith.