2026-08-27 - Board of County Commissioners

10:55meeting. uh persons who wish to speak

10:58concerning items on this agenda or who

11:01wish to speak about a matter relating to

11:04county government, we have two options

11:07to voice your opinion. In person

11:10attendees should complete a speaker card

11:13and deliver it to the clerk of the board

11:15before the meeting begins. Comments are

11:19also accepted by calling 336-4221200.

11:25On the day of the meeting, you will be

11:27placed on hold and recognized to speak

11:30in the order your call was received. The

11:33public comment period will be limited to

11:3730 minutes in its entirety. The maximum

11:40time allowed to each speaker shall be

11:43three minutes. If there are a large

11:45number of speakers supporting or

11:48opposing the same position, they should

11:51appoint a spokesperson.

11:53It is in its discretion the board may

11:56vote to extend the length of the public

11:58committee com comment period or to

12:01change the time allowed to each speaker.

12:04It's expected that speakers shall behave

12:07in a manner in keeping with the quorum

12:10of a formal meeting. speakers or

12:12audience members who disturb the meeting

12:14will be required to leave. If you're

12:17here to speak about zoning case F1671,

12:22you do not need to fill out a speaker

12:24card. The public hearing for this is in

12:27the is the second item on the agenda. We

12:31will begin this meeting with an

12:33invocation from Reverend Samuel Doyle,

12:36First Baptist Church, followed by the

12:39Pledge of Allegiance led by Commissioner

12:41Parker. Please stand if you're able.

12:53Shall we pray?

12:55Oh Lord, our Lord, how excellent is your

12:58name. How awesome are your ways. How

13:01great is your glory. How inclusive is

13:03your peace in all the earth. We give you

13:06thanks for your manifold blessings that

13:09have enabled us to gather as fellow

13:11citizens, free men and women, neighbors

13:14from all walks of life, convening to

13:16deliberate on how to live well together.

13:19I pray for this body, the board of

13:21county commissioners. Crown their heads

13:24with wisdom to lead well. Adorn their

13:27hearts with compassion to serve well. We

13:29pray for our county. Remembering the

13:32words of the psalmist who says, "Unless

13:34the Lord builds the house, they labor in

13:37vain in vain that build it. Unless the

13:40Lord keeps the city, the watchman

13:42waketh, but in vain. Lord, use our

13:45efforts to keep us safe, secure, and

13:48free. For your glory, to your honor, and

13:52in your name we pray." Amen.

13:54>> Amen.

13:56I pledge algiance to the flag of the

13:59United States of America and to the

14:02republic for which it stands. One nation

14:06under God, indivisible, with liberty and

14:10justice for all.

14:19There may be individuals in attendance

14:22uh regarding the proposed asphalt plant

14:25at 6010

14:27Gun Gun Club Road. This matter is not on

14:31the agenda. Kyle Haney, deputy county

14:34manager, will provide the board with a

14:37brief update on the process and next

14:40steps. Mr. Hane.

14:41>> Absolutely. Good evening, Madam Chair

14:43and commissioners. Um, as I know this

14:45subject is of the potential asphalt plan

14:47Clemens has generated a lot of

14:48attention, I want to provide some

14:50clarity to the board and audience

14:52members on Foresight County's role in

14:54the approval process for that project.

14:56I'll just start with the bottom line.

14:58The board of county commissioners have

14:59no legal role or authority in that

15:01process. As a matter of zoning, the

15:04parcel resides in the municipal limits

15:06of the village of Clemens and therefore

15:08they have all zoning authority. However,

15:10that parcel is already zone zone GI and

15:12allows the proposed use by right. As the

15:15as the asphalt plant use does require an

15:18air permit, county staff does have an

15:21administrative role in the air

15:22permitting process, but has no legal

15:24discretion in that decision. Air pering

15:27air permitting for emissions is required

15:29under the federal clean air act. The

15:31federal government has delegated the

15:32rules and laws that oversee that

15:34permitting process to the states.

15:36Therefore, those rules and laws are

15:38established by the state of North

15:39Carolina. And in 97 counties of North

15:41Carolina, that process of air permit

15:43application review, approval, and

15:44monitoring rests with the state. That

15:46administrative process rests with the

15:48state. However, Forsight County is one

15:50of three counties in North Carolina that

15:52has our own air pering and monitoring at

15:54a local level. Um, however, those the

15:56rules that guide that process are the

15:58state's rules and laws. The county does

16:00not have its own rules and laws for

16:02that. We do this through the office of

16:05environmental uh assistance and

16:06protection. That office must review the

16:08air permit application in accordance

16:10with the rules of the state of North

16:11Carolina. Um after after verifying that

16:14the applicant has de demonstrated the

16:15ability to operate their facility within

16:17all applicable laws and regulation, they

16:20have no discretion in whether or not to

16:21issue that permit. Put more simply, if

16:23the application meets the state's rules,

16:25our staff must issue the permit.

16:27Just to reiterate, no item will come

16:29before the board of commissioners for

16:30approval as the board of county

16:32commissioners have no legal authority in

16:33this situation. County staff is merely

16:36performing an administrative function of

16:37the state and the permit will be issued

16:39or denied in accordance with the state's

16:41rules and laws.

16:43I can quickly mention the rest of the

16:44process. The Office of Environmental

16:46Assistance and Protection is in the

16:47process of reviewing that application.

16:49When that is completed, they will issue

16:50a statement of basis and a draft permit.

16:52that will start a public comment period

16:54which will be advertised and at the time

16:56the office of environmental assistance

16:58and protection will schedule a date and

17:00location for a public hearing with

17:01county staff and just to clarify that is

17:03a public hearing with staff not the

17:05board of commissioners it's not before

17:06the board of commissioners so I am um

17:09happy to clarify the county's role in

17:11the process and and happy to answer any

17:12questions

17:13>> are there questions

17:17Parker

17:18>> thank you um so Mr. Mr. Haney, I've got

17:22a couple of questions just for

17:23understanding being the new guy on the

17:25block. Um, do we know the size of the

17:29plant and does that have any impact on

17:32the air quality study?

17:34>> So, I'm going to ask Mer Barnett, who's

17:36our director at the office of

17:37environmental system protection, to come

17:39up and speak to any specific questions

17:41on on

17:41>> air quality. Thank you.

17:47>> Could you repeat the question, please?

17:49Do we know the size of the plant and

17:51does that have any impact on the air

17:53quality study?

17:56>> I don't know the square footage of the

17:58physical footprint of the any buildings

18:02and components, but we do know the

18:06throughput of the processes that they

18:09will use to manufacture

18:11um the asphalt product. And the we and

18:14we do have a good handle on the quantity

18:17and types of emissions that will be

18:19generated from that process.

18:22>> Okay. And do we have any discretion to

18:27make stricter standards than what the

18:30federal EPA clean air act has for this

18:33type of company usage.

18:38So the

18:40authority from the EPA is delegated to

18:43the states nationwide

18:45and then in North Carolina the delegated

18:48authority flows through the state and

18:51through the appointed environmental

18:53management commission um that you know

18:56through enabling legislation empowers

18:58three counties to have a local program

19:01and we're one of those three counties

19:04and if we have a need in Forsythe County

19:06to have more protective regulatory

19:09requirements than the other 99 counties

19:12in the state. And that that is our

19:14professional opinion. It would require

19:16an action by the Environmental

19:18Management Commission to approve us

19:20being able to adopt into our enforceable

19:23code more stringent requirements than

19:25are applicable in the rest of the state.

19:27Our rules have to be at least as

19:29protective as the state rules and can be

19:32more protective, but only with

19:33Environmental Management Commission

19:35approval.

19:37Okay. And it from several of the emails

19:41that I've been getting, it seems like

19:44there is concerns that it there's a

19:46large spread area that they're concerned

19:48about even going as far as Tangle Wood.

19:51Now, I don't understand all the details

19:53on that. But when you have an area that

19:56large, does that suddenly become under

19:58the discretion of the county versus the

20:00village of Clemens?

20:04So, did you just say that there's a

20:06perception that a

20:10area of impact could be as large as to

20:13extend to Tanglewood?

20:14>> Correct.

20:16>> Um,

20:19that is not

20:21likely

20:23due to the distance and the way that air

20:26pollution dispersion occurs over time

20:29and distance. You know, it's a complex

20:33um

20:35scenario to analyze because of all the

20:39factors in the equation with

20:42the atmospheric conditions and

20:44topographical conditions and other

20:46things that influence the way air

20:48dispersion of air pollutants occurs.

20:51But given

20:53the

20:55types of pollutants and the

20:57concentrations that are anticipated

21:01after some complex modeling has been

21:03completed,

21:05I would be surprised to see an impact of

21:07Tanglewood.

21:09>> Okay. So, as part of your study, which

21:11is still ongoing and we should get a

21:13report from that in a number of weeks,

21:16you would be able to make a

21:18determination on that.

21:22we would be able to share the

21:25um most reliable estimations available

21:28through the some of the most

21:30sophisticating computer modeling that's

21:32available to be performed and that's

21:34what's being used um to assess this

21:37project

21:38>> from that. Okay, thank you. And this

21:40next question may involve co Mr. Haney

21:43um if there was to be a change in the

21:48air standards as Mr. Barnett said would

21:50be a rather difficult process. Would

21:52that be considered a downzoning?

21:56>> Uh I I don't believe that would be um a

21:59downzoning as it would not necessarily

22:00restrict the land use. It's really more

22:02about our regulation of air emissions.

22:05So I don't think it would have an impact

22:06on the zoning

22:07>> air quality. Yes, sir.

22:09>> Okay. Thank you all.

22:10>> Thank you.

22:11>> Commissioner Bessie,

22:13>> if I may, just a couple more questions.

22:16Um

22:18uh

22:19like most lawyers I think I already know

22:21the answers but I think it's important

22:22for the public to understand. Um

22:26I don't want it to be mispersceived uh

22:29that the for

22:33environmental protection uh entity is

22:37acting as a rubber stamp. um you do your

22:41own independent modeling of what the

22:45regulated air pollutants

22:48would be at the fence line of the

22:50property, don't you?

22:52>> That is correct. Um, so you are looking

22:55at the standards that the EPA and the

23:00state of North Carolina have established

23:02for these pollutants, uh, including, uh,

23:06you know, particulates, soot, uh, from

23:09the plant, um, sulfur dioxide emissions,

23:13uh, and designated toxic air pollutants

23:16included. uh and the those standards

23:19would apply to whatever got to the fence

23:22line of the property. Am I correct in my

23:25understanding there?

23:27>> That is correct.

23:28>> Right. Um so what they're saying when

23:31when uh when Mr. Haney says you don't

23:34have any discretion, that means if your

23:38studies and analysis show that they will

23:41meet those standards, then you have to

23:44give the permit. That is correct. And we

23:47are thoroughly analyzing

23:51the six criteria pollutants, 188

23:54hazardous air pollutants and 97 toxic

23:56air pollutants. But that is not to imply

23:59that any facility in the state of North

24:00Carolina emits all those different

24:02pollutants. But we're but we're not

24:05ruling out anything in the the

24:06assessment is as thorough as it can

24:08possibly be. And I will mention that we

24:11have I have a sta I have a lot of

24:12amazing staff members with a lot of

24:14years of experience including one who is

24:17known regionally and nationally as being

24:19a very skilled and talented modeler.

24:22He's been modeling running these models

24:23for over 24 years and he's one of the

24:26best in the business and he's and he's

24:28actively engaged on this project.

24:30>> Now a couple of questions about process.

24:33Uh, as has been noted, your agency, your

24:37department will hold a public hearing.

24:40Uh, and if folks want to be notified of

24:43that hearing, they can send an email to

24:47your staff and get on the list for

24:49notification.

24:51>> Absolutely. Certainly. Uh and if they

24:54believe that they have um relevant

24:58evidence on the emissions from the plant

25:02from whatever source, they can offer

25:04that evidence either in writing or

25:07orally at the public hearing. Is that

25:09correct?

25:09>> Yes, sir. Absolutely. Every comment is

25:11going to receive thoughtful

25:12consideration. We're going to put a lot

25:14of time and due diligence into reviewing

25:16all those comments and consider giving

25:19them consideration. And finally, if

25:21there is anyone who is dissatisfied with

25:24the decision by the department to either

25:28issue uh the permit or if if the facts

25:32justify this, deny the permit or issue

25:34it with conditions, they have a a route

25:37of appeal to and I understand from our

25:41count from our council that their route

25:43of appeal would be to a hearing before

25:45an administrative law judge with the

25:48administrative office of the courts in

25:49North line.

25:50>> So, it might first go to our advisory

25:53board for a recommendation and then if

25:55the appealing party was still not

25:59satisfied with the outcome after

26:02a decisions made considering the

26:04advisory board's recommendation, it

26:06would go to that next level um in front

26:09of a judge.

26:09>> All right. Thank you. And then of

26:11course, just to hit again on the one of

26:15the main points that Mr. Haney mentioned

26:17this board has no legal authority in the

26:20matter. We can't review or change the

26:24recommendation uh for issuance, denial,

26:27etc. of of the permit.

26:29>> That's correct.

26:30>> All right. Thank you.

26:31>> Are there further questions or comments?

26:36>> Okay. Okay.

26:37>> Thank you.

26:38Uh before agenda items are addressed,

26:41the board would like to recognize staff

26:44who have been uh recently who have

26:47recently won awards and our deputy um

26:51county manager Denise Price will

26:53introduce these recipients.

26:57>> Good afternoon, commissioners. Two

26:59foresight county programs were

27:00recognized at the annual North Carolina

27:03Association of County Commissioners

27:05conference in Durham just last Thursday.

27:08These programs are representative of

27:10impactful work done each day across our

27:12foresight county departments. The first

27:15health and human services recreation

27:18health was recognized with a civic award

27:21in partnership with the Winston Salem

27:23transit authority and the city of

27:24Winston Salem parks and recck

27:26department. Health fairs are held every

27:28second Tuesday of the month at rotating

27:30recreation centers and the Winston Salem

27:33Transit Authority. Community partners

27:36join us to share information about

27:37services and supports that are available

27:40throughout our community. Additionally,

27:42a number of other supports may be

27:44available such as vaccines and benefit

27:46enrollment. The following Tuesday after

27:50the the fairs, a nocost Narcan training

27:53is held at the same rec center where

27:55participants learn how to administer the

27:57life-saving opioid overdose reversal

27:59medication and are provided with Narcan

28:02so they are prepared to assist if

28:04needed. The second program, Cooperative

28:07Extension, was recognized as a runner up

28:10for the county partnership award. The

28:12team was honored for their outstanding

28:14commitment, collaboration, and support

28:17of extension programs through the year.

28:20The team also assisted with the first

28:22night event showcasing the vast array of

28:25services available through our local

28:27extension offices.

28:30Thank you. I'd like to invite them up so

28:32that we can see these great folks that

28:34are doing this great work. And I believe

28:36we may also have some community partners

28:38here tonight. We'd like to invite them

28:40up as well. We couldn't do it without

28:41him.

28:42>> Please do.

28:44[applause]

29:02They're holding their awards so you can

29:04see it really happened. And we are so

29:06proud of y'all. Thank you so much for

29:07your hard work. Those

29:20[applause]

29:26of us who attended the conference in

29:29Durham, we were so proud that afternoon

29:31when our folks were given awards and

29:34thank you again for all you do.

29:37The next recognition is for our county

29:40attorney, Gordon Watkins. He was

29:43recently named president of the North

29:45Carolina Association of County Attorneys

29:49for 2026 through 2027.

29:52Gordon has represented for county in

29:55numerous capacities. National

29:58Association of CE Civil Attorneys

30:01President Niko Board of Directors and

30:05Finance Committee sounding founding

30:08member of the Government Council and

30:10Election Official Network. North

30:13Carolina Association of County

30:15Commissioners Parliamentarian

30:18and member of the Rapid Response Team to

30:22advise the association on pending bills.

30:25chair of the North Carolina Opioid

30:27Settlement Group, 2021 County Attorney

30:32of the Year Award, and 2021 Presidential

30:36Award from the North Carolina

30:38Associations of County Commissioners.

30:41Thank you for your hard work, Gordon,

30:43and we are we are so proud of you and

30:46your excellent representation. Thank

30:49you. [applause]

30:56The first item on the agenda is a public

30:58hearing to consider for Scythe County's

31:01participation in the commercial property

31:04asset capital expenditure program.

31:10Miss uh Helena Florura is our community

31:14and economic development program

31:16administrator and will give a brief

31:18overview of the request.

31:21Thank you.

31:24Good evening, Madam Chair and county

31:25commissioners. It's good to be with you

31:27tonight. Today, I'd like to share more

31:29about the CPACE program and discuss next

31:33steps for our involvement in the

31:34program, as well as answer any questions

31:37you have about this before the public

31:39hearing.

31:44CPACE stands for commercial property

31:47assessed capital expenditure. It is a

31:50mouthful.

31:52This title represents both the name of

31:55the statewide program that North

31:57Carolina counties opt into and the title

32:00is a very specific type of private

32:02financing. Opting into this program

32:06makes CPACE financing available to

32:08commercial property owners and banks in

32:11our county.

32:16If Foresight County opts into the CPACE

32:19program, we allow a new financing tool

32:21for commercial property owners to

32:23improve their property with a CPACE

32:25loan. A CPACE loan is between the

32:28property owner and the bank. It is

32:31secured by a senior lean on the property

32:33allowing an owner to pay back the

32:35funding over a longer period of time.

32:39Local governments record this lean in

32:41the register of deeds office. Local

32:44governments are not responsible for loan

32:46collection in any way. There is no

32:49financial liability or legal liability

32:52for a local government in this program.

32:57Opting into CPACE supports the

33:00renovation and upgrade of our commercial

33:02property stock. This in turn could

33:04support increases to our tax base.

33:08Are there any questions about the

33:10program or a CPACE loan before I

33:15>> questions?

33:17Thank you.

33:18>> Yeah, [clears throat]

33:18>> this is a public hearing. Speakers will

33:21have up to 15 minutes total to speak in

33:24favor of this request and up to 15

33:26minutes total to speak in opposition. Is

33:30there anyone wishing to speak in favor

33:32of this petition?

33:37Please come forward and state your name

33:39and address for the record.

33:44Good evening, Madam Chair,

33:45commissioners. My name is Will Elely.

33:47I'm the green economy program director

33:49at Pedmont Environmental Alliance and I

33:51reside at 120 East Devonshshire Street,

33:54Winston Salem, North Carolina. Um, I

33:57wanted to to thank the commissioners for

33:58their consideration of this resolution

34:00and especially a deep um um expression

34:03of gratitude to Helena Fior from uh

34:05County Community Economic Development.

34:07Um her sincerity and time and expertise

34:10and sincerity of her due diligence has

34:12been um really helpful and and

34:14reinvigorating. We're really excited to

34:16this resolution passed to work with

34:17community partners to make this very

34:19real to the positive impact of of the

34:22county as a whole. I just wonder I'm

34:23here on behalf of 35 organizations that

34:26signed on in support their local and

34:29statewide financial institutions,

34:30nonprofits, developers, um, and small

34:34businesses. We think that CPACE is right

34:36for Foresight County for the following

34:38reasons. As Helena had already

34:39reiterated, it attracts private capital

34:41into our city and county and creates

34:43good paying future proof jobs in

34:45construction, engineering, and clean

34:47energy without using any public funds.

34:49Um just as additionally as Selena

34:51mentioned many of our downtown buildings

34:54and ultimately to to keep um a lot of

34:57momentum going with adaptive reuse

34:58projects in Winston Salem and the county

35:00as a whole um CPACE would could provide

35:03long-term flow interest financing for

35:05these aging structures making them more

35:07energy efficient and attractive to

35:09investors and future tenants alike. Um

35:11certainly by reducing energy and water

35:13consumption, our local businesses,

35:15nonprofits, and affordable houses can

35:17significantly lower their overhead,

35:18allowing them to reinvest those savings

35:20back into their employees, tenants, and

35:22our local economy. Um ultimately,

35:25because this is zero risk to taxpayers

35:27as it is voluntary program, it doesn't

35:29impact the city or county's general

35:31funds or debt capacities. Uh we do think

35:33this is invaluable moving forward. It

35:35certainly shows um its effects uh

35:38nationwide. has been shown to increase

35:39property values and decrease rates of

35:41foreclosure and additionally with all

35:42the job creation mechanisms. Um, that's

35:45certainly all I have to say about about

35:47that, but thank you so much for your

35:49consideration.

35:50>> Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing

35:53to speak in favor of this petition?

35:58Is there anyone wishing to speak in

36:00opposition to this petition?

36:06I declare the public hearing closed. Do

36:09I have a motion? Move

36:10>> approval.

36:11>> Second.

36:12>> Move approval by Commissioner Bessie and

36:14second by Commissioner Parker. All in

36:17favor say I.

36:19>> I.

36:19>> Opposed. That is unanimous.

36:26Okay. The second item on the agenda is a

36:29public hearing and a consideration of a

36:32special use permit requested by Robert

36:35David um Mikum for a land clearing and

36:40invert debris debris LCID landfill for

36:45property located on the west side of

36:47Salem Chapel Road and south of West Road

36:52zoning dock at F1671.

36:56Kirk Echerson will now uh give us a a

37:01report on this and he has to be sworn in

37:03by our clerk.

37:17>> All right. Uh good evening, Chair

37:19Wizenhunt and county commissioners and

37:22uh guests. Uh, as was mentioned, this is

37:25zoning case F-1671.

37:28The petitioner is Robert David Mikum.

37:30The site is uh approximately 102 acres

37:33located on the west side of Salem Chapel

37:36Road, south of West Road. And this

37:38request is an elected body special

37:41permit for the development of a land

37:43clearing and inert debris commonly known

37:45as an LCID landfill greater than 2 acres

37:49in an agricultural zoning district.

37:52Since this involves a qua judicial uh

37:54special use permit process, I'm going to

37:57uh defer to the county attorney to just

38:00give the board a brief uh presentation

38:02on the process we're going to use.

38:05>> Thank you, Kirk. U madam chair, members

38:07of the board, um as you're aware, this

38:10is a quasi judicial hearing. It is um

38:13you as a board are um effectively as

38:16acting as a judge in this case. So, this

38:18will be based on sworn testimony. Um

38:22there was were no communications with um

38:26people outside of the hearing. What

38:27lawyers would call exparte

38:29communication. Uh the testimony must be

38:31based on relevant facts and some

38:34testimony such as traffic projections or

38:37property valuations need to be based on

38:40expert opinion, expert testimony. So the

38:44four required findings of fact to

38:47approve this would be one that the use

38:50will not materially endanger the public

38:52health or safety if located where

38:55proposed and developed according to the

38:57application and plan as submitted and

39:00approved. Two, that the use meets all

39:04required conditions and specifications.

39:07Three, that the use will not

39:09substantially injure the value of a

39:12joining or abudding property or that the

39:15use is a public necessity. And finally,

39:17four, that the location and character of

39:20the use, if developed according to the

39:22application and plan submitted and

39:23approved, will be in harmony with the

39:26area in which it is to be located and in

39:28general conformity with the forward 2045

39:31comprehensive plan. Once the proponent

39:35has offered evidence to these four

39:38findings, the burden will shift to the

39:40opposition to produ produce specific

39:43evidence that at least one of these four

39:46findings has not been met.

39:49Um

39:51you you will obviously hear the

39:52testimony today. Um, I will prepare the

39:58finalized version of the special use

40:00permit which will be included in your

40:03minutes at the next meeting for you to

40:05approve. But but you'll still have the

40:07motion today and then we'll have the

40:09final the final order. After that, I'm

40:12happy to answer any questions anyone has

40:14about that

40:16>> questions.

40:18Thank you.

40:20The board shall not be limited to

40:23consideration of such evidence as would

40:25be admissible in a court of law.

40:28Discussion and deliberation among the

40:31board shall occur in open session and

40:34the board may ask questions as witness.

40:37All evidence must be presented prior to

40:40the board rendering a decision. the

40:44process of approving an issue of a

40:46special use permit as a quasi judicial

40:49hearing which requires speakers for this

40:52item to speak under oath. The board

40:55requests that both proponents and

40:57opponents refrain from making repetitive

41:00statements or asking repetitive

41:03questions. Each side should consider

41:06appointing a spokesperson if possible to

41:09conduct crossexamination.

41:11The board will allow both sides to

41:13present their views and to crossexam

41:16examine witnesses. Anyone who intends to

41:20present an argument in favor for this

41:23matter, please come forward to be sworn

41:25in.

41:27I

41:28>> think well, Madam Chair, we may want to

41:30let uh Kirk finish his presentation

41:32first.

41:33>> Okay.

41:35Excuse me, Kurt.

41:36>> All right. Um well, thank you again. Uh

41:39I'm just going to give a little

41:40background on this case uh before we

41:43have the public hearing. So this is the

41:45forward 2045 growth management map

41:48showing uh the location of the property

41:50in growth management area 5, the rural

41:53area and you can see it's directly north

41:56of the town of Walkertown, very close to

41:58the Stokes County line.

42:01This is a location map showing the

42:03zoning for the property and the

42:05surrounding context. Again, as

42:07mentioned, this property and most of its

42:09neighbors to the north, west, and east

42:10are zoned agriculture, and the neighbors

42:13to the south are zoned RS40, which is

42:16residential with a minimum acre lot

42:18size.

42:20This is an aerial image showing the

42:22conditions of the subject property. You

42:25can see there's some roads that have

42:27been cleared through uh the site. This

42:29was to facilitate some logging,

42:32timbering, which took place on the site

42:33in recent years. That being said,

42:36there's still a significant amount of

42:38vegetation that exists along the edges

42:40of the property that could be useful for

42:42screening the LCID operation.

42:47And this is the area plan map showing

42:50the uh recommendation land use for the

42:53area. This property is in an area

42:55northeast of the county where we haven't

42:57had formal land uh land use based area

43:01plans in the past. It was in the 2012

43:04Northeast Rural Area Study and that

43:07study basically recommend that

43:09properties retain their existing land

43:11use and existing zoning unless there's

43:14evidence to the contrary. But again,

43:16this request would utilize the existing

43:19AG agriculture zoning.

43:23Just to go through some site photos

43:25briefly, this is looking north along

43:27Salem Chapel Road. The subject property

43:30is immediately to the left of the road.

43:34This is turning the other direction

43:35looking south along Salem Chapel Road.

43:38Subject property is to the right.

43:41This is looking west into the subject

43:43property from Salem Chapel Road. Again,

43:46you can see some of the areas that have

43:48been cleared and some of the vegetation

43:50that has come back to take the place of

43:52the larger trees.

43:56And one last photo. This is looking

43:57north from the subject property along

43:59Salem Chapel Road towards uh Stokes

44:02County.

44:04Just to briefly go over the proposed

44:06site plan, uh hopefully you all can see

44:09my cursor here, but there's two areas in

44:12green that are in the center of the

44:14site. Those are the actual LCID land

44:17clearing and inert debris landfill

44:19cells. There's a stream, a tributary of

44:23Leak Creek that basically divides the

44:26divides the two cells. Uh if you look to

44:30the northwest on the SE site, you'll see

44:32a borrow area where dirt will be taken

44:34from and uh provide layers over uh the

44:38different elevation points that are

44:40being buried in that landfill and also

44:43could be used to ultimately cap the

44:45landfill when its life expectancy is

44:47complete. To the northeast, you can see

44:50a recycling and recovery area, which is

44:52where the operators can reuse some

44:55materials like brick or if they screen

44:59uh and kind of clean up the dirt and

45:00things of that nature that might be

45:02coming in, they could resell some of

45:04those items. And uh lastly, you'll see

45:08this area here has an existing well, a

45:11proposed septic area and repair area,

45:14and a 50x 80 foot maintenance and

45:17operations building. And this kind of

45:20thicker line here, which has tree

45:23symbols that you all probably can't see

45:25on your monitors, is some additional

45:27screening that the property owner is

45:29providing to try and enhance the

45:31appearance of their facility from uh

45:34from the right of way.

45:38As uh attorney Watkins mentioned, the

45:41board will have to affirmatively make

45:43four findings to approve this request.

45:46The staff is prepared to offer uh our

45:48recommendations for each of those

45:50findings. Again, the first finding is

45:53that the use will not material endanger

45:55the public health or safety if located

45:57were proposed and developed according to

45:59the application and plan is submitted

46:01and approved. Staff believes that this

46:03site incorporates stream buffers, storm

46:06water management, and grading controls

46:08that will minimize the impacts on

46:10natural resources, balance operating

46:12needs with environmental protection, and

46:15the presumption that a use is permitted

46:17in the zoning district, and is not a

46:20threat to public health or safety unless

46:22proven otherwise.

46:24Uh the second finding is that the use

46:26meets all required conditions and

46:28specifications of the UDO and staff

46:31affirms that this request does meet all

46:33the minimum requirements for LCID

46:35landfills.

46:38Third, the use will not substantially

46:40injure the property value of adjoining

46:42or abuing properties and that the use is

46:44a public necessity. In this regard,

46:47staff does not have the expertise to

46:49make property value determinations. So

46:51we don't have an official position on

46:53this one. And the final finding is that

46:56the location and character of the use,

46:58if developed according to the

47:00application and plan submitted and

47:01approved, will be in harmony in with the

47:04area in which it is to be located and in

47:06general conformity with forward 2045,

47:09the county's comprehensive plan. And on

47:12this finding, staff believes that due to

47:14the impacts LCIDs can have on

47:16neighboring properties, this use is well

47:18suited for large tracks of land where

47:21topography and the size can limit its

47:23effect on surrounding property.

47:25Furthermore, the applicant is adding

47:27additional screening along Salem Chapel

47:29Road to minimize its visual impacts and

47:33the presumption that is if a use is

47:35permitted in the zoning district, it is

47:37therefore in harmony with the area

47:39unless proven otherwise.

47:43With all of that being said, the

47:45development of a land clearing an inert

47:47debris landfill of greater than two

47:49acres in the A zoning district does

47:52require the issuance of a special use

47:53permit from the board of commissioners

47:56following a site plan review by the

47:57planning board. That planning board

48:00review happened in June 11th and the

48:02board determined that the site plan

48:04meets all of the UDO requirements uh on

48:06a unanimous vote. At this time, I'll

48:09turn over uh the floor to the county

48:12clerk to swear in the folks who would

48:14like to speak in the public hearing.

48:18I'm glad to answer any questions you

48:19have.

48:20>> Questions?

48:22Thank you.

48:26Anyone who intends to uh speak in favor,

48:30please come forward to be sworn in.

48:40How are you?

48:41>> Would you swear or

48:47do you swear that the testimony shall

48:48give to the board of commissioners shall

48:50be the truth, the whole truth, and

48:51nothing but the truth? So, help.

48:53>> I do.

48:54>> Thank you.

48:56>> This is a public hearing. The first

48:58speaker will be the applicant or their

49:00representative.

49:01and come forward and state your name and

49:04address for the record, please.

49:06>> Eric Dolan, 2520 Dyer Lane, Winston

49:09Salem.

49:12>> Good evening, Madam Chair and members of

49:14the board. I'm here tonight on behalf of

49:16Robert David Mikum, the petitioner, and

49:19Langguard LLC, the proposed operator of

49:21the facility. I'm the owner and operator

49:24of Languard, a land clearing, grading,

49:26and excavation company based here in

49:28Forcy County. I'd like to thank the

49:30board for your time and for the

49:31responsibility you have in hearing this

49:33application. I also want to thank

49:35everyone who took the time to be here

49:37tonight, members of the community, our

49:39professional team, planning staff, and

49:42industry professionals who recognize the

49:43need for LCID disposal options in the

49:46area. Once the decision was made to

49:48petition the governing body for a

49:50special use permit, we made every effort

49:52to establish an open line of

49:54communication with the neighboring

49:55community. our post. We posted our

49:58contact information at the property and

49:59mailed out approximately 120 letters to

50:03the nearest residences explaining the

50:05proposal and inviting feedback. That

50:07line of communication remains open.

50:10[clears throat] Copies of our community

50:12letter and the information posted at the

50:14property are available to the board

50:16tonight for the record. During this

50:19quasi judicial hearing, we will provide

50:21competent evidence through the plans,

50:22professional evaluations, and testimony

50:25to demonstrate that each of the four

50:26findings for approval of this special

50:29use permit has been met.

50:31Planning staff concluded in its staff

50:33report that findings one, two, and four

50:35were satisfied. Finding three includes

50:37the question of property values, which

50:39require specialized evidence. We are

50:42providing that evidence tonight through

50:43an independent professional evaluation.

50:46We began this project by bringing in

50:48qualified professionals who identify

50:50characteristics of the property and the

50:52protections that would be necessary to

50:54protect the public health and safety. We

50:56retained Philip May with Inenver

50:57Environmental Consulting. Phil evaluated

51:00the environmental characteristics of the

51:02property so that the necessary

51:03protections could be incorporated into

51:05the preliminary design. Phil is here

51:08tonight and will speak more specifically

51:10about his evaluation and findings. That

51:13environmental work was incorporated into

51:15the engineered site plan for uh prepared

51:18by Stacy Smith, principal engineer at

51:20Smith and Garner. Stacy will speak more

51:22in detail about the engineering

51:24regulatory requirements and design of

51:26this facility. The property is zoned

51:28agricultural and the site has been

51:30designed around the UDO and the

51:32additional state requirements applicable

51:34to an LCID. The plan provides the

51:37required perimeter setbacks,

51:39environmental protections, controlled

51:41entrances, internal access, and

51:44emergency accessibility.

51:46We have also voluntarily added

51:48vegetative screening and fencing along

51:50Salem Chapel Road to further reduce

51:53visual and noise impacts. There are

51:55three available approaches to this area,

51:57providing multiple available routes, and

52:00the site itself has two proposed access

52:02points connected internally. Before the

52:05facility can operate, we must obtain an

52:06NC DOT driveway permit and complete any

52:09improvements required through that

52:11additional review. The facility will

52:13operate under written policies and

52:16procedures and will remain subject to

52:18NCDEQ permitting inspection and

52:20continued regulatory oversight. Landfill

52:23footprint was divided into two separate

52:25areas and only 41 acres total of the 102

52:29acre track are [clears throat] proposed

52:30for the fill area boundaries. Our

52:33eventual goal is to return this property

52:35to productive agricultural acreage. The

52:37future use will be addressed through the

52:40final closure plan and required review

52:42and approval process. We retain Kirkland

52:45appraisals to independently evaluate

52:48the potential effect of this facility on

52:50adjoining properties. [clears throat]

52:53Nick Kirkland is here tonight and will

52:54explain their methodology and

52:56conclusions in detail. Current state and

52:59facility records also demonstrate a need

53:01for a permitted LCID serving this part

53:03of Forsythe County.

53:05The county is approximately 408 square

53:07miles and currently only has one

53:09permitted LCID landfill.

53:12Additionally, the former system of

53:14smaller LCID notified sites in North

53:16Carolina ended January 1st of 2026.

53:20[clears throat]

53:21That includes Box Mountain Road

53:22landfill,

53:24which was one of the closest disposal

53:26options to the area. Greater disposal

53:28distances mean additional truck miles,

53:31travel time, fuel, and operating costs.

53:34Additionally, planning staff noted as a

53:36positive aspect of this proposal that it

53:40would provide a convenient disposal

53:41location for land clearing debris in

53:44northeastern forces county,

53:45[clears throat] excuse me.

53:47Finally, considering this proposal in

53:49the context of the area in which it

53:51actually operates being [snorts] on a

53:53large agricultural tract in rural

53:55northeastern force county, the

53:57surrounding area includes agricultural

53:59land, wooded and open acreage, large

54:02tracks and large residential tracks.

54:07Land clearing and grading hauling are

54:10not unfamiliar to the area and LCID

54:12notified sites historically operated

54:15nearby before the recent change in state

54:17requirements. The surrounding rural area

54:19continues to include agricultural

54:21operations involving trucks and heavy

54:23equipment while any additional truck

54:25traffic will be well below the NC DOT

54:27thresholds for further analysis.

54:30Planning staff determined that the the

54:32proposed LCID is in conformance with

54:35Forward 20 245 being located on a large

54:38track at a readily accessible location.

54:42Throughout this process, we have

54:43approached this project responsibly and

54:46brought qualified professionals to

54:47design around the characteristics of the

54:49property and comply with the

54:50requirements placed upon us.

54:53We have prepared a formal statement of

54:54intent for your consideration

54:57and to be placed in the record along

54:59with a detailed outline of relevant

55:01experience and background for the

55:04petitioner and myself. We believe the

55:06evidence will demonstrate that all four

55:08required findings have been met. With

55:10that, I'd like to turn it over to the

55:11professionals for their testimony,

55:14and I can provide that that those

55:16documents whenever whenever anybody

55:19wants them. If you want them now, we if

55:20you need them,

55:22>> you might.

55:24>> Thank you.

55:31>> So, Madam Chair, before before the next

55:34witness starts, there there may be some

55:36folks who want to cross-examine the

55:37first witness.

55:38>> Okay. Are there any opponents who wish

55:41to cross-examine the speaker?

55:46>> I don't see any.

55:53Good evening.

55:54>> Good evening.

55:55>> My name is Stacy Smith and I am senior

55:57engineer with the firm Smith Gardener.

56:00Uh my office is located at 14 North

56:02Bolan uh Avenue, Raleigh, North

56:04Carolina. I'm a licensed professional

56:06engineer in the state of North Carolina

56:08among other states. I hold a bachelor's

56:11and master's degree in civil engineering

56:12from NC State University. Uh my area of

56:16practice is in solid waste related

56:18engineering, permitting, design,

56:19construction and operations for over 30

56:22years.

56:24The applicant land guard engaged our

56:25firm to investigate the area subject uh

56:29site and we prepared a plan for

56:31development of a land clearing and inert

56:33debris facility in compliance with

56:34local, state and federal rules. Our site

56:38plan development is included through the

56:40online submittal process to force county

56:43and as a matter of information.

56:46This uh local planning approval is the

56:48initial element of permits and approvals

56:50necessary to obtain an NCDEQ solid waste

56:54permit whereby multiple agencies at the

56:56local state and federal levels will

56:58conduct review of comprehensive

57:00application.

57:02As uh we describe uh again there's

57:05there's a number of people that touch

57:07see and uh review the site to make sure

57:11that uh it is you know uh we regulated

57:15will be uh in a good environmental

57:17steward and it's responsible use of the

57:19property for this need of LCID

57:22um within our site plan which I think we

57:26have it here don't me.

57:31There we go. Okay. So, within our site

57:34plan, our evaluation included flood

57:36plane restrictions, cultural resources,

57:39natural and historic preserves,

57:40endangered and threatened species, clean

57:43water act restrictions, waste buffers

57:45and setbacks, emergency access,

57:48groundwater buffers, storm water

57:50management, operations, uh closure and

57:53postclosure. It is our opinion the

57:56proposed site plan and development

57:57complies with the required regulations

57:59and standards if operated in accordance

58:01with the proper permits and will not

58:03materally endanger the public health,

58:05safety or general welfare. Um, I have

58:09copies of my report that I can share and

58:13uh and then available for any questions.

58:16>> Are there any opponents who wish to

58:18cross-examine this speaker?

58:23Not seeing any.

58:25>> Thank you.

58:43>> Hi. I actually also have a report, so I

58:45was just going to hand this up also.

58:48>> Yes. Would you give us your name and

58:49address for the record, please?

58:51>> Sure. My name is Nick Kirkland with

58:53Kirkland Appraisals. My address is 9408

58:56Northfield Court, Raleigh, North

58:58Carolina.

58:59>> Okay. Thank you.

59:14>> If you'd like, I can wait until you all

59:16have a copy.

59:26Thank you.

59:30>> You can you can go ahead and begin,

59:32please.

59:33>> Okay. Sure. My name is Nick Kirkland

59:35with Kirkland Appraisals. I'm a state

59:37certified general appraiser in the state

59:39of North Carolina as well as seven other

59:40states. I've been accepted as an expert

59:43in property value impacts for proposed

59:45uses both for and against and multiple

59:48states uh in total something like three

59:50or 400 times. Um I'm here to present the

59:53Kirkland appraisal's impact study where

59:55we looked at whether or not the proposed

59:56LCID use would have an impact and if so

59:59what that impact would look like um to

1:00:02the adjoining or nearby property values

1:00:03and also whether or not it would be in

1:00:05harmony where it's proposed. So just to

1:00:08begin with, the methodology that we

1:00:10utilize is called a matched pair or

1:00:12paired sales analysis. Uh this is where

1:00:15we look at a a property that's sold

1:00:17directly next to an existing LCID that's

1:00:19already approved, already allowed,

1:00:21already operating, and we look for other

1:00:23nearby sales that someone interested in

1:00:25that property that sold right next door

1:00:27would have had the opportunity to go and

1:00:29look at. The idea is if there's an

1:00:31impact to the uh adjoining or nearby

1:00:33property values, we would expect to be

1:00:35able to measure that from market

1:00:37participant activity. So this is very

1:00:40similar if you've ever had your house or

1:00:41your land appraised. That appraiser is

1:00:43going to identify your property and the

1:00:45size, where it's located, those

1:00:48important features. Then they're going

1:00:49to find nearby comparables and say based

1:00:51on these comparables, we think your

1:00:53property is worth this much. We're doing

1:00:55a very similar analysis. We identify a

1:00:57property that sold right next to an LCID

1:00:59use. Then we look for nearby comparables

1:01:02and say based on those comparables, we

1:01:04think the one next to the LCD should

1:01:05have sold for about this much. Now the

1:01:07question is, did it sell for more than

1:01:09that or less than that or about the

1:01:10same? And this provides an indication of

1:01:12impact or a lack of impact. So the

1:01:17analysis that we've done, we've got 21

1:01:19of these examples of matched pairs or

1:01:21paired sales within the impact study.

1:01:23And these have a range of impacts for

1:01:27being adjacent to the facility from

1:01:29negative4% to the adjoining property

1:01:30value to positive 23% though excluding

1:01:34the the high outlier on the top end it

1:01:36goes from neg4 to positive 7%. The

1:01:39overall average uh is positive 2% and

1:01:42the median is 0%. Um this is a strong

1:01:45indication of no impact to adjoining

1:01:47property values. Uh, additionally, it's

1:01:50important to follow up with, well,

1:01:52that's nice, but what if that adjoining

1:01:53sale is half a mile away? It just

1:01:55happens to adjoin on a very large tract.

1:01:57So, what we do is we also look at the

1:01:59proximity in terms of the closest active

1:02:01area of the LCD use to the actual

1:02:04structure of the adjoining dwelling. And

1:02:06those ranges from the match pairs that

1:02:08we have are 100 ft from dwelling to

1:02:11active area up to 525 ft. So in general

1:02:15uh the average of that is 200 ft and the

1:02:17median is 135 but much closer than

1:02:19what's proposed here. So uh based on

1:02:22this it's my professional opinion that

1:02:24the proposed LCID use will not have uh

1:02:28will not substantially injure the value

1:02:30of adjoining or abuing properties and

1:02:32this is based on the setbacks to the

1:02:33adjoining properties which also uh

1:02:36support that if those adjoining

1:02:38agricultural uses were later to be

1:02:39developed with residential uses there's

1:02:41enough of a setback that the adjoining

1:02:43uses would not have a negative impact on

1:02:45their residences were they to be

1:02:47developed. Additionally, this applies to

1:02:50um whether or not anyone is looking to

1:02:52sell their property. You would not based

1:02:54on this analysis, you would not expect

1:02:56to sell it for less, list it for less,

1:02:58or expect less from the open market

1:03:01based on the LCID being adjacent. And

1:03:03briefly to discuss the harmony, we've

1:03:05looked at um 19 other LCID sites uh

1:03:08across the state. And what we found is

1:03:11this is a very typical location as to

1:03:12where one of these would be located. It

1:03:14is not uncommon for them to adjoin a

1:03:16residential use but be in a rural area.

1:03:19And it is also not uncommon for

1:03:21residential uses to be one of the most

1:03:24common adjoining uses. Um there's new

1:03:26subdivisions that do get developed next

1:03:27to LCID uses and there's no impact to

1:03:30value that we've been able to measure

1:03:32for that. Um so it's my professional

1:03:34opinion that the proposed use will be in

1:03:36harmony where it's proposed to be

1:03:37located. And that's all I have. I'd be

1:03:39happy to answer any questions.

1:03:43Thank you. Are there any opponents who

1:03:45wish to crossexamine the speaker?

1:03:50Please come forward. Give us your name

1:03:52and address.

1:03:59My name is Cindy Cook. I live at 7075

1:04:02West Road. That is just below where this

1:04:04proposal is. How many of those places

1:04:07are in the country? And how many of them

1:04:10have um live on country roads or or most

1:04:14of the things that you looked at the

1:04:16LCIDs and how many of them are greater

1:04:21than 2 acres? Are they all 100 acres of

1:04:25land that is being uh evaluated?

1:04:31>> That is a good question. Um

1:04:34let me hold that up.

1:04:42So the acreage that we look at for the

1:04:44facilities, the 19 facilities range from

1:04:469 acres to 276. The average is 85 acres.

1:04:51Um, and these range from suburban areas

1:04:55to very rural areas. Um, and in some

1:04:58cases, I know we have at least one

1:04:59example where it's such a rural area

1:05:01that it has a shared driveway with some

1:05:03of the adjoining residential uses. Um,

1:05:06and for each of these to ensure that

1:05:08we've uh correctly identified the the

1:05:13proposed area and to make sure that the

1:05:15actual sales data we have is applicable,

1:05:17we've looked at nearby um median income

1:05:19as well as average home values to ensure

1:05:21that this area may be unique. The actual

1:05:25sales that we've looked at may not

1:05:26apply. However, the um within one mile

1:05:30and three miles, the median income as

1:05:33well as average home values are very

1:05:35close to the average and median of the

1:05:36overall uh data set that we looked at.

1:05:39So, this is a very typical area and

1:05:42provides support that the the

1:05:44conclusions are

1:05:47supported and it's applicable to utilize

1:05:49those comparables for this.

1:05:53I'm sorry for give us your name and

1:05:55address, please.

1:05:57name is Steve Walton, live at 8080 West

1:06:00Road.

1:06:02Um, and she addressed part of my

1:06:04question right there was, did you

1:06:05compare these? I like you saying, not

1:06:09all these sites are the same size. And

1:06:12the larger the site, the more traffic

1:06:15you get in, the more truck traffic is

1:06:17coming in there. And that's what my

1:06:19question was is how do you compare one

1:06:22site to this one with the truck traffic

1:06:26has got to uh be a problem for people

1:06:29that live around it. You know, if you've

1:06:30got 10 trucks coming a day, that's not a

1:06:33big deal. You you can live with that. If

1:06:35it's 50 trucks a day, that's got to be a

1:06:39difference right there when you're

1:06:40valuing the property or how it's going

1:06:42to devalue the property by the amount of

1:06:44trucks that are coming in and out of

1:06:46there.

1:06:48Is there a specific question that I can

1:06:50answer? Uh

1:06:51>> trying to get to that. U how do you

1:06:54compare it with the truck traffic that

1:06:57this site is expecting right there? I

1:06:59don't know if he's addressed it yet. Uh

1:07:01how much truck traffic he is expecting

1:07:03in here?

1:07:05>> So,

1:07:05>> but do you know the truck traffic that

1:07:07he is expecting in here? I reckon that's

1:07:09the question. First,

1:07:11>> I'm not a traffic engineer. I I I can't

1:07:13speak to truck traffic. Um that's but

1:07:16what we do is we're looking at are

1:07:17people paying less to live next to uses

1:07:20just like this.

1:07:20>> Right. But do you know the amount of

1:07:23trucks that are going to be traveling in

1:07:24and out that facility on a daily basis?

1:07:27>> I do not.

1:07:28>> And how can you base how it's going to

1:07:30devalue the property when you don't know

1:07:32if it's going to be 10 trucks or 100

1:07:34trucks coming in? Do you think that if

1:07:36it was a there would be a difference in

1:07:3910 trucks and 100 trucks? I would say

1:07:42that if there was a difference, what we

1:07:44would expect is that homes that are

1:07:45closer to the active areas would see a

1:07:49bigger impact. And we're not seeing

1:07:50that. We've got homes that are much

1:07:52closer than the proposed closest house

1:07:54to this that are showing no impact. And

1:07:57we do have sites that are much bigger

1:07:59than this that have a lot more people

1:08:01living much closer.

1:08:03>> All right. But I still don't see how you

1:08:04can determine

1:08:08how the value of the property is going

1:08:09to be affected if you don't know what

1:08:13the uh the truck traffic is going to be

1:08:15on that. I don't see how you can make a

1:08:17determination without having that

1:08:19information.

1:08:20>> Yeah, that's not something that an

1:08:21appraiser is typically looking at. What

1:08:23we're we're not looking at exactly how

1:08:25many vehicles are driving by any one

1:08:27site on any one day. What we're trying

1:08:28to see is are people paying less to live

1:08:31next to this? If they are, then we need

1:08:33to understand why. If they're not, then

1:08:35it could be related to truck traffic. It

1:08:37could be related to buffering. It it

1:08:39doesn't really matter why they're not,

1:08:41but we've not measured that there is an

1:08:43impact provided that you're greater than

1:08:45100 ft. But don't you think that

1:08:48that it is going to impact

1:08:51a uh the sale of a house if if I'm

1:08:54trying to sell my house and I'm in an

1:08:56area next to an LDIC that has 10 trucks

1:08:59a day coming in there and now I'm trying

1:09:02to sell one next to one. It's got a 100

1:09:03trucks a day and somebody's coming out

1:09:06looking at this house and they see a 100

1:09:08trucks coming by there. You don't think

1:09:10that's going to impact them any

1:09:12different than if you just see truck

1:09:13thin trucks come by?

1:09:15>> Based on the market data we've looked

1:09:16at, there's no basis for an impact to

1:09:18the adjoining property values? No, sir.

1:09:19>> And how did you determine that?

1:09:23>> We we determined that by looking at

1:09:25examples where people had

1:09:26[clears throat] options to buy right

1:09:27next to the LCD versus other nearby

1:09:29homes and they did not pay less to buy

1:09:31the one next to the LCD.

1:09:33>> Thanks for your time. I don't think

1:09:34we're getting anywhere here. Okay. Thank

1:09:36you.

1:09:39Please state your name and address for

1:09:40the record.

1:09:41>> Todd, excuse [clears throat] me, Todd

1:09:43Swain, 7120 West Road. Uh, one of my

1:09:47questions, can you repeat the the

1:09:51percent you said plus and minus?

1:09:53>> Uh, yes. It ranges from negative 4% to

1:09:55positive 23%. The the top end one is a

1:09:58bit of an outlier, so negative4% to

1:10:00positive 7%.

1:10:02>> Have Have you ever

1:10:04seen or visited one of those sites? Yes.

1:10:07Okay.

1:10:08>> Multiple times.

1:10:10>> Would you buy a house next to one?

1:10:13>> Yes,

1:10:14>> you would.

1:10:14>> Yes.

1:10:17>> Please, please refrain from

1:10:20>> at what percent plus or minus would you

1:10:23buy?

1:10:24>> I would say that anything within plus or

1:10:26minus 5% is too close to uh market value

1:10:31to measure. Um, real estate's an

1:10:33imperfect market. If you take two cookie

1:10:35cutter homes, same tract, same same

1:10:37neighborhood, a developer selling them.

1:10:39If one sells for 190,000 and the next

1:10:42sells for 205, which one is market

1:10:44value? Real estate's imperfect. It could

1:10:47be very uh reasonable that both are

1:10:49representative of market value. So, I

1:10:52mean, personally, I would not pay less

1:10:54to live next to one of these. I wouldn't

1:10:55pay more. I would just pay whatever it

1:10:57appraised for provided that there was no

1:10:59impact associated with

1:11:00>> for that study that you do for it to be

1:11:05legit or valid the property you have to

1:11:08have property sales to study. Correct.

1:11:11>> That is correct.

1:11:12>> So there's no evidence that a a home or

1:11:15property rural property a farm

1:11:18property's value would go down or up

1:11:21unless it's sold.

1:11:24You're asking whether or not there's a

1:11:25way to measure the impact without a

1:11:27sale. We're not able to do that.

1:11:30However, we do have sales which we've

1:11:33looked at comparable sites based on

1:11:36median income and um average home values

1:11:40to ensure that it is reasonable to

1:11:41compare even though not all the

1:11:43adjoining properties next to this or one

1:11:45down the road would have sold.

1:11:46>> Right? So if if the property adjoining

1:11:50an existing LCID or even

1:11:53uh a proposed LCID doesn't sell, then

1:11:56there's no way to study the the loss of

1:11:58the property value.

1:12:01If no one's interested in buying the

1:12:03property, there's no way to study if the

1:12:05property dropped in value. It's not to

1:12:07say that there would be no impact. It's

1:12:10what I'm what I'm saying is that there's

1:12:12no basis for what you're saying to

1:12:14happen. Essentially, you should not

1:12:16market it for less. You shouldn't list

1:12:18it for less. It's just a non-factor

1:12:20based on other market conditions that

1:12:23>> Right. But but if the property doesn't

1:12:25sell, there's no way to to to put a

1:12:28number on the the amount of loss or gain

1:12:30compared to the actual property value.

1:12:33>> I mean, that's very hypothetical. I

1:12:35mean, if I list something worth a dollar

1:12:37for 5 million, I can't claim that I've

1:12:39been impacted because it didn't sell

1:12:41what it was listed at. What I'm what I'm

1:12:43getting to is if the if if a neighbor

1:12:45here and I know these neighbors if these

1:12:48neighbors if this thing passes, if they

1:12:51were to to decide they're going to sell

1:12:53until that property sales, there's no

1:12:55way for you to report a property loss.

1:12:58What I'm saying is that there will not

1:13:00be an impact from this based on many

1:13:02other sites that many other sites have

1:13:05been constructed. Sales have occurred

1:13:06right next door both residential

1:13:09dwellings as well as vacant land and

1:13:11they are not selling for less. So

1:13:12there's no basis for this to have any

1:13:14impact on adjoining uses.

1:13:15>> So so back to my first question. You

1:13:17would buy a house directly adjoining an

1:13:20LCID

1:13:22knowing how it operates with a concrete

1:13:24crusher.

1:13:25>> You have asked that question sir. Ma'am,

1:13:27you've already asked that question once.

1:13:29>> I got you. And to answer that question.

1:13:31>> Yes.

1:13:32>> Okay. Thank you'all.

1:13:33>> Thank you.

1:13:35Come forward, please.

1:13:42>> Take me a minute, but I'll be there.

1:13:44[clears throat]

1:13:51>> My name is uh Dane Mlau. I live at 6205

1:13:58uh Salem Chapel Road.

1:14:01Are you aware that every home in that

1:14:03area

1:14:04as wells for water for no public water.

1:14:09>> I'm willing to believe that. I did not

1:14:10know that, but I'm willing to believe

1:14:11that.

1:14:12>> Well, believe it. Uh

1:14:15if as in note number 11 on their map,

1:14:19they're supposed to have done a study of

1:14:23the wetlands and streams and the effect

1:14:27of this dump on those aspects of the

1:14:31groundwater.

1:14:33If in fact any of this pollutes any of

1:14:36the groundwater in our area, would that

1:14:39affect the the salailability of my

1:14:42house?

1:14:43>> I'm not the environmental expert.

1:14:45>> I'm not asking you that. I'm asking you

1:14:47as an expert in evaluation.

1:14:50>> If a well is it contaminated or the

1:14:54groundwater is contaminated,

1:14:57does that affect the saleability of a

1:15:00house? I

1:15:00>> I don't know the answer to that. What I

1:15:02can tell you is that

1:15:04>> we base this impact study based on best

1:15:07practices and following all the state

1:15:08rules. So if they did not follow all the

1:15:10state rules, then that would be on the

1:15:12owner operator.

1:15:13>> Otherwise, if my house had a polluted

1:15:15well, you no have no worry whatsoever to

1:15:18buy it then, right?

1:15:21>> Again, this is based on all best

1:15:23practices being followed and all sorts

1:15:25being followed.

1:15:26>> Give me your card. I'll sell it to you

1:15:28when we're polluted.

1:15:30>> Thank you.

1:15:34Thank you. Anyone who intends to present

1:15:36an argument in opposition to this

1:15:39manner, please come forward to be sworn

1:15:41in.

1:15:41>> There was one more.

1:15:42>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.

1:15:57>> Good evening. I am the last one. So,

1:15:59>> okay. My name is Philip May

1:16:01>> and uh I am the owner and senior

1:16:04consultant with Inenver Environmental

1:16:05Consulting. I'm a water resource natural

1:16:07resource professional been practicing in

1:16:09North Carolina adjacent states for over

1:16:1130 years. My area of expertise is waters

1:16:15to the US wetlands streams other surface

1:16:17waters assessment permitting things like

1:16:19that as well as endangered species. Um I

1:16:23was requested to do a review of the site

1:16:25for the really two purposes. One is are

1:16:29there any fatal flaws under those rules

1:16:30that would prevent the development of

1:16:31the site as planned? There are none.

1:16:35Secondly, to identify constraints that

1:16:37the engineer would use to develop the

1:16:39site plan that you have before you. So

1:16:43the

1:16:45wetlands and streams shown on site are

1:16:47pretty typical for northern forest

1:16:48height county. You've got a couple of

1:16:50drainages, couple of streams having a

1:16:53northwest, one bisects the property.

1:16:55They discharge to Lit Creek. Lake

1:16:57Creek's a class C freshwater stream.

1:16:59Class C just means it's a standard

1:17:01stream. It does not have any special

1:17:02protections or sensitivities. The state

1:17:04uses standard rules to apply for that

1:17:06stream.

1:17:08There are several small drainages you

1:17:10can see on site containing streams,

1:17:11wetlands. Most of those have been

1:17:13avoided. The ones that are within the

1:17:16site plan, several of them would not be

1:17:18considered waters of the US because they

1:17:20don't have what's called continuous

1:17:21surface connection to downstream waters.

1:17:24That's my opinion. I will have to get

1:17:26that vetted out by the core of

1:17:28engineers. We will perform a full

1:17:29delineation documentation. They have to

1:17:32approve that before any development in

1:17:33those areas occurs. There's a couple of

1:17:36other small features the wet and fingers

1:17:38that would be potentially impacted. We

1:17:41would have to justify those. Get permits

1:17:44from the core of engineers, a pretty

1:17:46standardized permitting process as well

1:17:47as a water quality certification from

1:17:49the division of water resources.

1:17:51Those permits weren't issued. we'd have

1:17:53to adjust the site plan a little bit and

1:17:55and but it' be a minor adjustment.

1:17:58So, no real issues associated with

1:18:00waters of the US Clean Water Act

1:18:01permitting. Um the solid waste rules do

1:18:05require us to look at endangered species

1:18:06as Mr. Smith said earlier. We use a fish

1:18:10and wildlife database to determine what

1:18:11could occur in the area and then analyze

1:18:14the site for habitat. There's my report

1:18:17does state there is habitat on site for

1:18:19one listed species and I stand by that

1:18:21but I also stand by the fact that it's

1:18:23not a problem for the site. The species

1:18:26happens to be a species called Schwinus

1:18:28the sunflower. It found from about pilot

1:18:31mountain down to Charlotte and it's only

1:18:33place it grows anymore is power line

1:18:34rideways and roadsides because it needs

1:18:36competition swept out the way. So we

1:18:39have a power line on the site and we

1:18:40have a roadside. So I have to state in

1:18:43my report there is habitat. If it was

1:18:46found under every power line, it

1:18:47wouldn't be on the endangered species

1:18:48list. So if we have to perform surveys,

1:18:51we'll do so, but it's not an issue. The

1:18:54they're staying out of the power line to

1:18:55start with. That's west of the

1:18:57development. So

1:18:59So again, no issues as far as I can see

1:19:01on the site plan. We do have to have our

1:19:03steps to go through to get approvals.

1:19:05>> Okay. Thank you.

1:19:06>> Thank you. Again, if there's anyone who

1:19:09intends to present an argument in

1:19:12opposition to this ma matter, please

1:19:14come forward to be sworn in.

1:19:23Our clerk will swear you in.

1:19:30Is [clears throat] there anyone

1:19:44testimony shall give the board

1:19:45commissioner.

1:19:50>> Thank you.

1:19:54[clears throat]

1:19:57>> Madam chair, with your permission, uh we

1:20:00have some documents that could be

1:20:01distributed with your permission,

1:20:03please. Okay.

1:20:07[clears throat]

1:20:25There are two documents. The first is a

1:20:28series of tabs, six tabs, information

1:20:31that each of us will address as to

1:20:34findings one, three, and four. The

1:20:37second is a packet of over 500

1:20:41signatures from our community opposing

1:20:45this.

1:20:49I I'll just add that the board can't

1:20:51consider um the um petition. They they

1:20:54just have to consider the evidence

1:20:56that's presented today in this hearing.

1:20:59And I'm sorry, did you state your name?

1:21:02>> My name is Gary Kaufman. I reside at

1:21:047001 West Road, Walnut Cove.

1:21:09>> Madame Chair and commissioners, I thank

1:21:11you for the opportunity to communicate

1:21:13the facts relating to this petition. My

1:21:16wife Carol and I moved to this area for

1:21:18employment 14 years ago and found this

1:21:20community to be the perfect place to

1:21:23reside because the beauty of the area,

1:21:25low traffic, virtually no noise, and

1:21:28wonderful neighbors. All of this would

1:21:31be destroyed for our community should

1:21:33this site be approved. I want to

1:21:36specifically address findings one,

1:21:38three, and four and share the facts.

1:21:41Finding number one, that the use will

1:21:44not materially endanger the public

1:21:46health or safety.

1:21:48As you can see in the document before

1:21:50you, page after page after page pictures

1:21:55from the community members showing that

1:21:57the site is dangerous for vehicles, for

1:22:00walkers, bicyclists because of the

1:22:03scurves, the lack of shoulders, and

1:22:06extremely limited line of sight.

1:22:10Unlike the Tucker LCID which expansion

1:22:12which you approved last month that is

1:22:15served by routes 66 and 74 and sits on a

1:22:20full asphalt road. Our roads are tar and

1:22:23gravel.

1:22:25Tab one includes many pictures of the

1:22:27degradation of these country roads with

1:22:30very limited traffic. These rural

1:22:33country roads will be damaged constantly

1:22:35by massive trucks weighing anywhere from

1:22:3726,000 lbs to 80,000 lbs and require

1:22:42money that could be spent better for our

1:22:44county. Finding three that the use will

1:22:48not substantially injure the value of

1:22:50adjoining or abuing property or that the

1:22:52use is a public necessity. Realators are

1:22:55required to disclose any industrial or

1:22:57commercial operations and these include

1:23:01noise, odor, smoke, other nuisance from

1:23:04commercial or industrial sources that

1:23:07impact the property. Regarding public

1:23:10necessity, we all agreed we need LCIDs,

1:23:14but they need to be located where it's

1:23:16safe and there's infrastructure. Our

1:23:19community relies on wells and the county

1:23:21has no plans to extend municipal water

1:23:24to this rural area. As is noted in tabs

1:23:27four and five, the water to regularly

1:23:30spray the materials dumped on this site

1:23:32will require well water and our

1:23:34community is concerned about losing our

1:23:36wells.

1:23:38The massive fire that broke out just on

1:23:40Sunday at the Vich LCID in northern

1:23:43Davidson County reveals the serious fire

1:23:46threat to our community.

1:23:48Finding number four, harmony with the

1:23:51area and forward 2045.

1:23:54Our community is rural, not commercial,

1:23:57not industrial. This site is

1:23:59inconsistent with forward 2045 that

1:24:02prioritizes preserving rural areas.

1:24:06It's also inconsistent with the

1:24:07foresight county board of commissioners

1:24:09priority goal summary that you can see

1:24:12in tab three. It's also inconsistent

1:24:15with the northeast rural area study in

1:24:17tab 4, page 11 that defines what rural

1:24:21is.

1:24:23As our commissioners, we ask you to

1:24:25protect us and preserve our peaceful

1:24:27rural community. And madam chair, with

1:24:30your permission, I would like all those

1:24:32in opposition in this room and in the

1:24:35overflow room to stand.

1:24:38This is our community.

1:24:42We live here.

1:24:44>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

1:24:45>> Thank you.

1:24:47>> Are there any proponents who wish to

1:24:49crossexamine the speaker?

1:24:58>> I just have two questions.

1:24:59>> Sure.

1:25:02[clears throat]

1:25:04>> Uh, have you conducted or obtained a

1:25:07traffic study for this proposal?

1:25:14Yeah.

1:25:16No. Indeed, no traffic study was needed

1:25:18because the volume on these roads is so

1:25:20low. They're rural back country roads.

1:25:25The traffic we get, three of our senior

1:25:28citizens bicycle a 20-mi route on Salem

1:25:32Chapel Road and West Road. on weekdays

1:25:35between nine and three. You know how

1:25:38many vehicles they see? At most four.

1:25:42You don't have to do a traffic study on

1:25:45a backcountry road to know it's a

1:25:48backcountry road.

1:25:56Second question would be uh do you have

1:25:58testing or professional evaluation

1:26:01showing that this proposal or this

1:26:04proposed facility would cause the

1:26:06environmental impacts that you

1:26:07described?

1:26:13I reread it. Realators are required to

1:26:16disclose any industrial or commercial

1:26:18operations. And these include noise,

1:26:20odor, smoke, and other nuisance from

1:26:22commercial or industrial support sources

1:26:25impacting this property.

1:26:28When we worked with a realer to look at

1:26:30our house,

1:26:32she would have to disclose that this

1:26:34commercial or industrial business is

1:26:37there. And then it's buyer beware.

1:26:41We would not have moved here if this

1:26:44were in place. That's the facts.

1:26:50>> That's all.

1:26:51>> Thank you. Does the proponent wish to

1:26:54present a rebuttal? And if so, allow

1:26:57proponent to speak and allow op

1:27:03there may be some more who want to

1:27:05testify in opposition.

1:27:07>> Okay.

1:27:13I didn't mean to leave you out. I'm

1:27:15sorry. [laughter]

1:27:16>> That's okay. Thank you, though. Uh, good

1:27:19evening, Madame Chair, vice chair,

1:27:20esteemed commissioners, and staff. My

1:27:23name is Carrie Venable II. I live at

1:27:256925

1:27:27Venable Farm Road in Blues Creek. I

1:27:30stand before you tonight not only as not

1:27:32only as a concerned citizen but also as

1:27:36a licensed realtor and contractor in the

1:27:39state of North Carolina. Deeply invested

1:27:41in the fabric of this Salem Chapel

1:27:43community. My family and I own three

1:27:46properties along Salem Chapel Road, one

1:27:48of which is situated a mere 450 ft from

1:27:52the proposed landfill site.

1:27:55Earlier this year, my family and I made

1:27:58a significant financial and personal

1:28:01investment in this area.

1:28:04Our decision was pr profoundly

1:28:06influenced by the community's

1:28:09serene character, minimal traffic, and

1:28:12the evident dedication of its

1:28:14longstanding residents who have clearly

1:28:17chosen to establish their forever homes

1:28:20here. a quality increasingly rare and

1:28:24valuable in today's worlds.

1:28:27Currently, c excuse me, crucially, at

1:28:30the time of our sub substantial

1:28:33financial investment, we were entirely

1:28:36unaware of any plans for a proposed

1:28:38landfill. Had this information been

1:28:41available, I can unequivocally state

1:28:43that our investment decision would have

1:28:45been guided elsewhere. Our family's

1:28:48intention was to become a contributing

1:28:51member to the community committ and

1:28:54committed to enhancing the value and

1:28:56preserving its unique charm.

1:28:59The immediate and chilling effect of

1:29:02this proposal has been palpable. We have

1:29:05already experienced two instances within

1:29:08the past three months where prospective

1:29:11buyers upon upon learning of a potential

1:29:15100 acre landfill merely 450 ft from one

1:29:19of our properties have withdrawn their

1:29:21offers. This is not a speculative

1:29:25concern. This is a direct quantifiable

1:29:29impact on property liquidity and value.

1:29:33As a licensed realtor, I choose to

1:29:36practice mainly in the northeastern part

1:29:39of forcy county, Blues Creek, Salem,

1:29:41Chapel, and Walkertown. That is my

1:29:43particular area of expertise.

1:29:46>> [gasps]

1:29:46>> My professional code of ethics coupled

1:29:49with a fundamental commitment to

1:29:51transparency compels me to disclose this

1:29:55significant and unsettling even the

1:29:57possibility of a landfill to potential

1:30:00buyers.

1:30:04[cough]

1:30:06Um this situation clearly demonstrates a

1:30:10precipitous devaluation of our property.

1:30:13While precise figures are still being

1:30:16modeled, our diligent research

1:30:20informed by market trends, comparable

1:30:23scenarios indicates that approval of

1:30:25this landfill would likely result in a

1:30:28minimum 30% reduction in our initial

1:30:32property assessments.

1:30:34So, what we thought we were going to

1:30:36market ours for, we're expecting to

1:30:38decrease that by 30%. Now, this is what

1:30:42some people would say live action in

1:30:45terms of we're, as the crow flies, as

1:30:47they say in Blues Creek, 450 ft away.

1:30:51And I don't know how you can quantify,

1:30:53but we had two ready to go under

1:30:56contract and just to be clear

1:30:59specifically, when the potential buyers

1:31:01learned of the landfill,

1:31:03thank you very much, we're not

1:31:05interested. And that was the what they

1:31:07told me directly out of their mouth.

1:31:09They were nervous, which is quite

1:31:11understandable. [sighs and gasps]

1:31:13Um,

1:31:15for a small family business like ours, a

1:31:18significant and unforeseen financial

1:31:20blow is just simply unsustainable and

1:31:23threatens the very foundation of our

1:31:24investment.

1:31:26Beyond financial concerns, I must

1:31:29urgently highlight the severe public

1:31:31safety implications.

1:31:33In my prof professional experience,

1:31:36particularly in oper operating large

1:31:38work vehicles on Salem Chapel Road

1:31:41throughout this past year, has

1:31:43unequivocally demonstrated that the

1:31:46existing infrastructure is woefully

1:31:49inadequate to safely accommodate the

1:31:51anticipated volume of heavy truck

1:31:54traffic this landfill would generate.

1:31:56I have personally en encountered

1:31:59situations where an oncoming garbage

1:32:02truck met me when I was in one of our

1:32:05larger trucks and we both had to

1:32:07decelerate rapidly and move over to the

1:32:09shoulders of the road so our mirrors

1:32:12wouldn't hit one another. And that was

1:32:14kind of a rare instance and it was just

1:32:17a garbage truck. I can only imagine if

1:32:19it was several however many trucks they

1:32:22anticipate to come on a daily basis.

1:32:27Um

1:32:32the anecdotal evidence with personal

1:32:35underscores a broader systemic risk.

1:32:39Introducing consistent heavy industrial

1:32:42traffic would not merely be an

1:32:44inconvenience. It would materially

1:32:46endanger residents, particularly

1:32:49children, pedestrians, and all motorists

1:32:51using this road. Fundamental

1:32:54fundamentally compromising the public

1:32:56safety of the Salem Chapel community.

1:33:01Commissioners, I want to be very clear

1:33:03that my concerns are not rooted in

1:33:06personal animosity towards the

1:33:08petitioners.

1:33:09Rather, it stems from a deep conviction

1:33:12supported by direct experience and

1:33:15tangible evidence that Salem Chapel Road

1:33:18is an entirely inappropriate location

1:33:21for a landfill of this magnitude.

1:33:24The cumulative adverse impacts on

1:33:27property values, community car

1:33:30character, and most critically the

1:33:32undeniable threat to public safety are

1:33:35simply too profound to ignore. I

1:33:39sincerely thank you for your time and

1:33:43your diligent consideration of this

1:33:44critical matter and for the challenging

1:33:47public service that you all provide. I

1:33:50understand the complexity of your roles

1:33:52and I urge you to weigh these severe

1:33:54consequences heavily in your decisionm.

1:33:57Thank you and I can answer any questions

1:33:59you might have.

1:34:01>> Are there any proponents who wish to

1:34:03crossexamine the speaker?

1:34:05>> I just have two question.

1:34:07[clears throat]

1:34:09>> [laughter]

1:34:10>> Uh I I I couldn't understand the the

1:34:12first part. We're sitting back.

1:34:15>> So my first question would be are you a

1:34:17licensed real estate appraiser?

1:34:19>> Yes. A real estate appraiser? No, sir.

1:34:21No realtor. Realtor.

1:34:23>> Okay. Agent. Oh, realtor. Okay. Yes.

1:34:25Okay.

1:34:26>> And can you point me to any specific

1:34:29market data that supports your

1:34:31conclusion that property values will be

1:34:33negatively affected?

1:34:34>> Yes, sir. um approximately, like I said,

1:34:37450 ft from your proposed landfill. I

1:34:41mean, you can math this however you'd

1:34:44like to math it, but I felt strong. I

1:34:46had a a sold property and it went from

1:34:50sold to Thank you very much. So, from

1:34:52100% to 0%. So

1:34:56>> but with no LCID there

1:34:57>> with no LCID with the understanding

1:35:00there was no LCD and then when

1:35:03>> that got brought up it was thank you

1:35:04very much. [laughter]

1:35:05>> Okay. Um

1:35:08um do you have any evidence that you

1:35:12could provide or an engine engineering

1:35:14study accident analysis or any other

1:35:16professional evaluation concluding that

1:35:19that this proposal uh would create an

1:35:22unsafe traffic condition? No sir, I'm

1:35:24not engineer. All I can give you is is

1:35:27my personal evidence of me driving the

1:35:29big truck. I mean not from Raleigh. I'm

1:35:31from here. So you

1:35:33>> But I thank you for your time.

1:35:34>> Absolutely. Thank you.

1:35:35>> Thank you.

1:35:39>> Come forward.

1:35:44>> Madam Chair, commissioners.

1:35:46Um my name is Hunter Bogs. I live at

1:35:496500 Salem Chapel Road. on the uh

1:35:52picture is the uh entirety of the

1:35:54southern side, the yellow line of this

1:35:57the uh site plan. Um,

1:36:02and as I stated, my name is Hunter Bogs

1:36:04and I live at 6500 Salem Chapel Road,

1:36:06which you can see in your packets in tab

1:36:08one, page four for an updated photo

1:36:11um, of the [snorts] actual property of

1:36:13the LCD that borders the proposed LCD

1:36:16that borders my own property, um, which

1:36:18does consist of 121 acres that borders

1:36:21that proposed LCD. Um, I have lived in

1:36:25this rural agricultural community my

1:36:27entire life and I'm here tonight because

1:36:29this community has come together to

1:36:30oppose the proposed LCID on Salem Chapel

1:36:34Road. I want to address findings 1,

1:36:36three, and four that must be considered

1:36:38in this decision. First, the public

1:36:40safety. This proposal is inappropriate

1:36:43for this location because of the safety

1:36:45risk created by the road for the

1:36:46surrounding community. Sal Road is a tar

1:36:49and gravel, narrow, winding, hilly rule

1:36:52road with significant curves and limited

1:36:55sight distance. It is used every day by

1:36:58residents walking, children riding

1:37:00bikes, and families traveling to and

1:37:02from their homes. Putting a high volume

1:37:04commercial operation at this location

1:37:06means adding traffic onto a road that

1:37:09was never designed for this type of use.

1:37:12The entrance and exit of this proposed

1:37:14and possible exit of this proposed

1:37:16landfill crusher is positioned along a

1:37:19particularly difficult portion of Salem

1:37:21Chapel Road, which you can also see in

1:37:23photos in Tab One. Adding large

1:37:26[clears throat] commercial vehicles to

1:37:27these curves and limited sight lines

1:37:29creates an entire entirely different

1:37:31level of risk for the people who live

1:37:33here and use this road every day. There

1:37:36is also no municipal water along Sail

1:37:38Chapel Road at any point. My property

1:37:41borders this proposed site, including a

1:37:43significant area of hardwoods.

1:37:45Introducing industrial equipment and

1:37:47large-scale activity next to the

1:37:48neighboring wooded prop wooded

1:37:50properties creates additional fire and

1:37:52emergency emergency response concerns.

1:37:56Third, injury to adjoining and aboding

1:37:58properties. My family has invested in

1:38:01our property and our future here. Our

1:38:04neighbors have done the same. We chose

1:38:06this area because of its rural

1:38:07character, peace, privacy, and

1:38:10agricultural surroundings. Introducing

1:38:12heavy commercial traffic, industrial

1:38:14activity, noise, dust, visual impacts,

1:38:18and the constant presence of large

1:38:19trucks direct directly beside

1:38:21residential and agricultural properties

1:38:24has the potential to substantially

1:38:26change the character and desiraability

1:38:27of these properties. There are multiple

1:38:30other LCIDs already in the county,

1:38:33including the Watkins Forward Road

1:38:34extension passed here July 30 July 30th

1:38:37last month.

1:38:39Fourth, Harmony with the area and

1:38:41forward 2045. This is perhaps the

1:38:44clearest conflict. This is a rural

1:38:46community. The surrounding land uses are

1:38:48residential, agricultural, not

1:38:50commercial or industrial.

1:38:52425 calls for preserving rural areas and

1:38:55natural landscapes, prioritizing

1:38:57development where infrastructure already

1:39:00exists, and creating compatible

1:39:02transitions between land uses. A

1:39:04large-scale commercial operation

1:39:06surrounded by rural homes and

1:39:07agricultural land is not a compatible

1:39:10transition. It fundamentally changes the

1:39:13character of this area. Commissioners, I

1:39:15know these decisions are difficult and

1:39:17require strong deliberation. The

1:39:20question from our community is not if

1:39:21this LC LCID proposal belongs to Scythe

1:39:24County. The question is whether it

1:39:26belongs here. We we believe the facts

1:39:28show that it does not. For the safety of

1:39:31the people who live on Salem Chapel

1:39:33Road, for the protection of our homes

1:39:34and property, for the preservation of

1:39:37this rural community, and because this

1:39:39proposal is not in harmony with the

1:39:41vision established by forward 2045, I

1:39:44respectfully ask you to deny case

1:39:46F-1671.

1:39:48Thank you.

1:39:50>> Are there any proponents who wish to

1:39:53crossexamine the speaker?

1:39:59>> Just have one question.

1:40:00>> Uh are are you aware that uh an LCD

1:40:04greater than two acres is an allowed use

1:40:07on this particular track?

1:40:08>> I'm under the uh after reading the UDO,

1:40:11I do understand that any uh greater than

1:40:132 acre LCD has to apply for the special

1:40:16use permit when in agricultural zoning.

1:40:18Yes sir.

1:40:18>> Um I'm also aware that the UDO also

1:40:21lists uh LCIDs greater than 2 acres as

1:40:25generally industrial and commercial

1:40:27operations

1:40:29>> as listed in the own UDO of this

1:40:31commission.

1:40:39[applause]

1:40:44>> My name is Dan Weiss. I live at six

1:40:48Yeah, it was all right. 6972 Salem

1:40:50Chapel Road. I am to the north north

1:40:53side of the recycling recovery area is

1:40:56my 23 acres that we bought a year ago.

1:41:00My wife was following me for the 40

1:41:02years while I was in the military. And

1:41:05uh now it's my turn to follow her. She

1:41:08wanted to come home and we came home to

1:41:11North Carolina cuz she missed the

1:41:12southern hospitality. We lived in Texas.

1:41:15Imagine that. [laughter]

1:41:16Uh

1:41:19our nephew is the one who actually found

1:41:20this property for us. He went online or

1:41:23he found it, drove up to it against the

1:41:26realtor's uh uh what do you call it?

1:41:30advice, talked to the owner, and him and

1:41:32the owner sat down and drove around the

1:41:34property, looked at at things, found out

1:41:37everything about it, and then facetimed

1:41:39us once in the morning and once in the

1:41:41evening to show us how quiet and

1:41:44peaceful the the property is. I could

1:41:46turn on my speakers right now for my

1:41:49cameras out in my back door and you'll

1:41:51hear birds and that's all you hear.

1:41:54That is why that is why we bought this

1:41:56place is to be close to family and to

1:41:58also start a generational farm because

1:42:02I'm a disabled vet. I can't do much. I

1:42:04had to stop working. I thought, let me

1:42:06see what I can do on a small farm and my

1:42:08nephew will be there to help. Well, as

1:42:11soon as his new grandbab, my new great

1:42:13niece can walk, that'll get his hands

1:42:16back.

1:42:21the area zoned is zoned agricultural.

1:42:24Putting

1:42:26putting something that's not

1:42:27agricultural in the area, uh especially

1:42:30the small little little area that it is.

1:42:33And if this thing works,

1:42:36is everybody turned on?

1:42:39Hey,

1:42:41how do you zoom out

1:42:44other way

1:42:47to get to get a better understanding of

1:42:48of where this is located? Pineh Hall

1:42:51Road goes straight, I guess, as you're

1:42:54looking at it, north and south. West and

1:42:57Salem Chapel is a loop. There is no

1:43:00other reason to drive on this road

1:43:02unless you're visiting a friend going

1:43:05home or you or or you have a farm.

1:43:09And the same thing, it's got a little

1:43:11tail going out to the other side where

1:43:12you cross railroad tracks before you get

1:43:14to 311.

1:43:17Back over here is a little uh housing

1:43:21area where all houses are closer

1:43:23together.

1:43:25Down this way is Walkertown and that's

1:43:27more housing area.

1:43:30So no matter over here is housing area

1:43:32also. So no matter where you go really,

1:43:34you've got to pass somebody's

1:43:38more housing development where the roads

1:43:40and houses are closer to the street. My

1:43:42neighbor itself, he's puts up a little

1:43:45kid crossing sign every time his kids go

1:43:48go out and play on the driveway just so

1:43:51everybody will slow down because it's

1:43:52technically a 55 mph road.

1:43:57Um, I just wanted to make sure you've

1:43:58got an idea of exactly it's not just

1:44:01this one little space that that we're

1:44:04talking about. It's there's no reason to

1:44:06go down that space unless you have a

1:44:09purpose like living there.

1:44:13Thank you.

1:44:15>> Are there any proponents who wish to

1:44:17cross-examine the speaker?

1:44:20Okay.

1:44:23Okay. Does the proponent wish to present

1:44:26a rebuttal? If so,

1:44:30>> I am so sorry.

1:44:35>> This is my first time to be a judge.

1:44:38You're going to have to be have

1:44:40patience.

1:44:41>> I don't find myself in courtrooms very

1:44:43often. Another trick.

1:44:45>> He does.

1:44:47>> In prepar My name is David Peeler. I'm

1:44:49the pastor of Bethlehem United Methodist

1:44:51Church and I live at 105 Ridge Road in

1:44:53Walnut Cove.

1:44:56In preparation for tonight's

1:44:57proceedings, I came across a word that's

1:44:59fallen out of fashion in the arena of

1:45:01governance. That word is common wheel.

1:45:04It's old English and it refers to the

1:45:06general well-being of the people in a

1:45:08community. It comes it comes to us from

1:45:12old English and the more common word the

1:45:15more familiar word is common wealth

1:45:17which itself has nothing to do with

1:45:19money but comes from a time when wealth

1:45:21and health meant the same thing. It's

1:45:24the nature of human language that some

1:45:25words will fall out of use. Other words

1:45:28like common wheel, a word that reminds

1:45:30us we are responsible for the health and

1:45:32well-being of our community. Those are

1:45:34words that we can't afford to lose.

1:45:37Methodism has a long history in the

1:45:39community we we've come here to discuss.

1:45:41I'm the latest in a line of United

1:45:43Methodist ministers that goes back over

1:45:45200 years. My role tonight is different

1:45:48than that of my fellow speakers. Their

1:45:50task has been to present facts and

1:45:52figures that demonstrate that the

1:45:53proposed landfill is not a good fit for

1:45:55our community and does not in fact meet

1:45:57the guidelines set forth by this body.

1:46:00My task is the same as a century of

1:46:02pastors before me to remind us of the

1:46:05common wheel. Every Sunday morning

1:46:08before worship, the members of

1:46:09Bethlehem's choir take their seats at

1:46:11the front of the sanctuary. More often

1:46:13than not, the pre-worship discussion is

1:46:15an exchange of bird sightings.

1:46:17Hummingbirds are a particular favorite.

1:46:21Several days a week, members of my

1:46:23congregation along with other members of

1:46:25the community

1:46:27gather to bike and ebike for exercise

1:46:29along roads that they find to be safe.

1:46:33Along Salem Chapel Road in the creeks in

1:46:36our area, children play and make

1:46:38memories that will last a lifetime.

1:46:40Those same children wait on weekday

1:46:42mornings for the school bus in the

1:46:44safety of low traffic roads. Those

1:46:47things and more are all part of the

1:46:48common wheel, the community health that

1:46:51like the word itself, we cannot afford

1:46:53to lose. I want to make one more thing

1:46:55clear before I close my remarks tonight.

1:46:58It's been said in previous discussions

1:47:00that this group is just against

1:47:02landfills. I don't believe that's true.

1:47:05The members of this group are not

1:47:06against business concerns in general. In

1:47:09fact, there's a long history of mutual

1:47:11support for small business in our

1:47:13community. The truth is that the people

1:47:16gathered here tonight are not against

1:47:17anything. They're here because they love

1:47:20the rural character of their community

1:47:22and want to maintain that character. Out

1:47:25of fashion, though it may be, they are

1:47:27for the common wheel, the good of all. I

1:47:31respectfully ask that you support us in

1:47:33that sacred task. Thank you.

1:47:35>> Thank you. [applause]

1:47:41>> Have I missed anyone?

1:47:45Are there any proponents who wish to

1:47:48crossexamine the speaker?

1:47:51>> I speak.

1:47:54[clears throat]

1:47:54>> Were you sworn in, sir?

1:47:55>> Yes, ma'am.

1:47:57>> Thank you.

1:47:57>> Um, I'm a resident of Salem Chapel area,

1:48:0235 years. George Hoffing, 4653 Georgia

1:48:06Farm Road. I have five grandchildren

1:48:08that live right there. They walk up and

1:48:10down Salem Chapel Road to cousins back

1:48:12and forth. I drive my tractor up there.

1:48:15[clears throat] I'm a professional truck

1:48:17driver. I know what big rigs do to

1:48:19tractor or roads. That road cannot

1:48:22handle that type of traffic. Two trucks

1:48:25meeting each other. It would be very

1:48:27unsafe. This blind curves and Mr. Venal

1:48:32mentioned [clears throat] that it is

1:48:34very true what he said. It It's very

1:48:36unsafe for two trucks to meet each other

1:48:38on that road. I appreciate it. Thank

1:48:41you.

1:48:43That it

1:48:45[applause]

1:48:49I'm going to try this one more time.

1:48:52Are there any proponents who wish to

1:48:55crossexamine the last two speakers? No.

1:48:58Okay.

1:49:02Does the proponent wish to present a

1:49:04rebuttal? If so, allow proponent to

1:49:07speak and allow opponents to

1:49:09crossexamine or respond.

1:49:14>> Pardon?

1:49:14>> I do have a short.

1:49:17>> What did he say?

1:49:18>> Yes. Yes.

1:49:19>> Okay.

1:49:22>> Maybe maybe I misunderstood.

1:49:25>> Do you wish to present a reput rebuttal?

1:49:28>> Yes, ma'am.

1:49:29>> In general. Yes. And if and if so then

1:49:31it we will allow the proponent to speak

1:49:35and allow the opponent to cross-examine

1:49:38or respond. Okay.

1:49:40>> Yes ma'am.

1:49:40>> Okay.

1:49:43>> Again thank you for your time and

1:49:44consideration. Uh we've taken this

1:49:46problem seriously. I mean this project

1:49:48seriously. We've uh

1:49:51we we we brought forward professional

1:49:53studies, regulatory review, and

1:49:55technical analysis to address every

1:49:58required finding with competent sight

1:50:00specific evidence. We've put forth uh we

1:50:04we have put our property, our

1:50:05professional plans and testimonies

1:50:07before you for a transparent review. We

1:50:09ask in return that this application be

1:50:11decided under the legal standards

1:50:12governing governing a North Carolina WAI

1:50:15judicial hearing and on the competent

1:50:17evidence contained in the record. Uh

1:50:20again, thank you for time. That's all I

1:50:22have.

1:50:23>> Thank you.

1:50:26>> Did the opponents wish to crossexamine?

1:50:33>> Okay, I will declare the public hearing

1:50:35closed.

1:50:37Chair Want, we have someone in the back

1:50:38who raised their hand.

1:50:41>> Have you been sworn in, sir?

1:50:44>> Okay, come forward.

1:50:47[clears throat]

1:51:06The truth is the truth.

1:51:13>> [clears throat]

1:51:17>> I would like to ask if any any of the

1:51:23companies LCD or whatever it is, have

1:51:27you personally went to any neighborhood

1:51:31door, knocked on their door, introduced

1:51:34yourself to them, talked with them?

1:51:37Have you done any of that?

1:51:40>> Not door to door. Um, we sent out

1:51:4320 community letters which has been put

1:51:46on the record explaining the project and

1:51:48if you'd like you know we can give you

1:51:50one tonight. Uh but I didn't catch your

1:51:53address is

1:51:54>> so um my name is Bobby Anderson and I

1:51:58live at 6 6610 Salem Chapel Road.

1:52:01>> Okay. You you should have received a

1:52:03letter.

1:52:03>> I never received a letter. Never

1:52:05received.

1:52:06>> We can check the mailers but if so we

1:52:09apologize. And we also have a sign

1:52:10posted at the property with my

1:52:12information on it uh reaching out for

1:52:15you know feedback.

1:52:16>> Yeah. So uh so the the whole reason of

1:52:20this that I feel of coming forward is

1:52:23just because I moved there 10 years ago

1:52:27starting my own life. I recently got

1:52:29married six years ago. So

1:52:32>> that's a newly part of it. But

1:52:36I'm a simple guy and you know like I've

1:52:39I've lived with these neighbors and the

1:52:42only thing that I can say is that you

1:52:46know from a business standpoint I

1:52:47understand where he's coming from but as

1:52:50far as me

1:52:52I just enjoy the simple life and you

1:52:55know like I said I never received a

1:52:58letter never had a phone call never knew

1:53:01anything about the project until I was

1:53:03coming home from work cuz I work up in

1:53:05Mayadan and I drive on that road every

1:53:09day at 3:30 in the morning. I go up to

1:53:11work and come home. So, I've seen all

1:53:15kinds of wildlife, uh, bear, deer, uh,

1:53:19possum, even horses walking up and down

1:53:22the road. Uh, you know, odd things

1:53:26happen at night on a old country road.

1:53:29But, you know, I was never I never knew

1:53:32about the project, never knitted

1:53:34anything until my neighbor texted me and

1:53:35said, "This is what's happening." And it

1:53:38was like kind of like a blindsided. And

1:53:40ever since the last three months, four

1:53:43months, you know, when sites go up and

1:53:45stuff like that, signs go up. Never,

1:53:47like I said, never got an email, never

1:53:50got a letter in the mail, never even had

1:53:52someone one onone to come and talk to me

1:53:55to even say

1:53:55>> So, are you on the pineal side? I'm on

1:53:58well I'm on Walnut Cove so it's on the

1:54:01yeah the my address actually I have two

1:54:04acres of land that I rent from. So the

1:54:07cut off part of where the land for my

1:54:12property is actually like not even a 100

1:54:15yards and then the site's right there.

1:54:17So I'm literally right next door to it.

1:54:21Uh 6610 Salem Chapel Road.

1:54:25I'm not familiar with the exact address,

1:54:27but we can check the mailing list

1:54:29>> there. The if you go back to the slide,

1:54:31the one picture you have up there, I can

1:54:33actually I'm not

1:54:35>> I don't know slides. I hope I hope I

1:54:37answered your question.

1:54:38>> Yeah, you Yeah, you answered my

1:54:40question. It's just I the

1:54:41>> is it I mean is there you got any other

1:54:44questions or

1:54:45>> the only like I said the only concern I

1:54:47had is the fact that he ne nobody from

1:54:50the company ever I mean he said

1:54:53something about the

1:54:54>> I mean there's a sign posted at the

1:54:56property. Yeah.

1:54:57>> With the same information that was sent

1:54:59basically on the letter. So you know

1:55:02encouraging uh you know feedback from

1:55:04the community. So and we'll check the

1:55:06letter. Uh I I I don't know how many

1:55:09people did not get a letter, but we

1:55:11mailed 120

1:55:14off of a map. So

1:55:15>> Okay.

1:55:15>> Well, I appreciate that.

1:55:17>> Thank you.

1:55:18>> Thank you.

1:55:18>> Thank you. Okay. Okay. You can ask now.

1:55:22>> That's

1:55:25I have a have a question.

1:55:28Uh unless unless this is testimony. I

1:55:30don't want to interrupt testimony.

1:55:32>> Okay. I don't want to interrupt

1:55:34testimony. Is this additional testimony

1:55:36for the hearing? Okay. Um, let let me

1:55:39ask direct the question to our council.

1:55:41Um, are commissioners allowed before the

1:55:45the public hearing closes

1:55:48to address questions to uh sworn uh

1:55:54witnesses and to our staff, including

1:55:57our our staff.

1:55:59>> You you may ask questions. Yes.

1:56:02>> Okay. Do you have questions?

1:56:04>> Um, yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

1:56:06Commissioner Bessie

1:56:10>> had some different areas. Um

1:56:19let me start with the uh proponents. Uh,

1:56:22and I had a question with regard to the

1:56:27environmental study

1:56:30uh, and the um,

1:56:34the proposed borrow area. Um,

1:56:38not sure if that question would be

1:56:41better directed to um,

1:56:44uh,

1:56:48Mr. Dolan or to Mr. May.

1:56:54All right. Well, Mr. May, um the um

1:57:02the plan indicates a borrow area uh in

1:57:06near the northwestern edge. Uh the

1:57:12borrow area is flush up against

1:57:16um

1:57:17I believe categorical wetlands. Um

1:57:21uh and it's yes um

1:57:27the um

1:57:31the plan refers to storm water and

1:57:34erosion and sedimentation control. Uh

1:57:36prevention of sedimentation will be

1:57:38completed by directing site runoff to

1:57:41on-site sediment ponds.

1:57:44Um,

1:57:46however, that area does not drain to any

1:57:48on-site sediment pods. Um,

1:57:52>> I'm going to let the engineer who who

1:57:53would design that borrow area speak to

1:57:55that more than I I can from the Okay.

1:57:57From the wetland stand.

1:57:58>> So, can you discuss how sedimentation

1:58:01and erosion uh will be controlled from

1:58:04this part of the property?

1:58:06>> Yes. Uh again

1:58:09upon approval of this we would begin to

1:58:11engage discussions with uh forcy county

1:58:15Winston Salem erosion control and this

1:58:18plan would go into greater detail until

1:58:21we satisfy uh all of the necessary

1:58:24erosion controls. Now although we did

1:58:26not show a basin in the borrow area uh

1:58:29the extent of that uh you know

1:58:32excavation whatnot uh we would look into

1:58:35that a little bit deeper under next

1:58:37level review and there would be a basin

1:58:40there and there would be channels there

1:58:42and all of that would be designed to uh

1:58:45fit the area that may be impacted by

1:58:47that borrow area if needed. Okay, this

1:58:50could be very late in the process

1:58:52because uh again we have shown the

1:58:55maximum extent of the landfill but it's

1:58:57it's progressively developed over a

1:58:59period of time. So uh there may be a

1:59:02number of areas at the very front of the

1:59:04site that gets developed going to the

1:59:06initial basins and it would grow over

1:59:08time and all the controls would be um

1:59:11implemented over that period of time

1:59:14while working through the approvals with

1:59:16uh your own department.

1:59:17>> All right. Thank you.

1:59:18>> Okay.

1:59:20question [clears throat] for the um

1:59:21opponents. Uh and u

1:59:25whomever is uh has addressed this area

1:59:29um

1:59:31uh would be welcome to come forward and

1:59:33respond to this. you have suggested that

1:59:37um

1:59:39uh contrary to the staff's

1:59:41recommendation that the um

1:59:45uh proposal is not in keeping with the

1:59:48uh Ford 2045 or the small area plans.

1:59:52Can you identify the specific provisions

1:59:56uh in those plans that uh uh is

1:59:59contradicted by the proposal?

2:00:09I read the entire plan. It's fantastic.

2:00:12I didn't make copies for everyone, but

2:00:13you turn to tab five. Add to the title

2:00:17page 2045.

2:00:21Educate the community about

2:00:22agricultural's connections to

2:00:24resiliency, jobs, local food system.

2:00:26develop policies that prioritize farming

2:00:29activities and protect agricultural land

2:00:33from incompatible

2:00:35development.

2:00:38Next page, encourage conservation of

2:00:41undeveloped land in rural area, which is

2:00:44GMA 5. And just for reference, if I can,

2:00:47I know we've got a lot of pages here

2:00:48because a lot of facts to support each

2:00:51of this.

2:00:53If you turn to the next page,

2:00:56when making land use res uh

2:00:58recommendations, GMA5 rural area is

2:01:02located at the fringes of forcythe

2:01:04county and is beyond the area that can

2:01:06be provided with public sewer and other

2:01:09services in a cost effective manner.

2:01:14[clears throat]

2:01:17How does that affect this site since

2:01:19it's not um seeking to uh

2:01:23uh to hook on to public water and sewer

2:01:27fire mitigation?

2:01:29Give you an example. You approved Tucker

2:01:31LCID

2:01:34asphalt road

2:01:36sandwiched between Route 66 and 74

2:01:40municipal water and fire hydrants. This

2:01:43site has none of that.

2:01:46Well, water, backcountry roads. You look

2:01:49at pages 12 through 18 and 19 and 20.

2:01:52The size of the vehicles on the road,

2:01:54the degradation,

2:01:56no shoulders.

2:02:00Tucker family, LCID managed uh as an

2:02:03extension of a property. They've done

2:02:05pretty well from what I heard at the

2:02:07meeting last month.

2:02:09They live there. The family lives there.

2:02:13And I heard the individual say, "We're

2:02:16going to continue to farm that land.

2:02:20The owner doesn't live here.

2:02:22Land owner doesn't live here. We do.

2:02:26The owner manager doesn't live here. We

2:02:30do."

2:02:33>> Thank [clears throat] you. Um

2:02:35let me ask uh again the uh proponents a

2:02:40question regarding compatible uses. Um

2:02:45unlike the previous case that this board

2:02:48heard and decided which included an

2:02:51existing

2:02:52LCID that for which expansion was

2:02:55proposed.

2:02:57Is there an existing LC ID in in this

2:03:02location? No.

2:03:04>> Okay.

2:03:05>> Um,

2:03:07thank you.

2:03:08>> Yes. If if it's if it's allowed, I would

2:03:11like to comment on something there or

2:03:13>> Yeah. U typically we we do not use water

2:03:18to extinguish fires. So, so we we

2:03:21smother them with with soil cover. Um

2:03:25there and Stacy can probably elaborate a

2:03:28little bit on that, but we do water is

2:03:30going to do have the opposite effect of

2:03:32what you want it to have. We want to

2:03:35cover it with soil depleted of oxygen

2:03:37and get it extinguished.

2:03:41>> I just heard the you know a little bit

2:03:43about the water. We don't we don't

2:03:46require a lot of water to to for fire.

2:03:49>> Okay. And and I think similar to the

2:03:51other landfill that you're referencing,

2:03:53uh that site operates on well and

2:03:55septic. And uh and again, whenever we

2:03:59have the potential for fire, there's

2:04:01usually soil around. That's the primary

2:04:04mitigation method. Um if you add water

2:04:07to LCIDs, it'll tend to drive up the

2:04:10decomposition process more. So we try to

2:04:13avoid water uh you know, certainly in

2:04:16saturating conditions or whatever. and

2:04:18uh and you you'll pull apart if you had

2:04:21a potential fire, you pull apart it and

2:04:22you smother it with soil and that's how

2:04:24you get it out.

2:04:25>> Okay. Thank you. No more questions.

2:04:28>> Ask a question.

2:04:29>> No, ma'am.

2:04:32Are there other questions of the board?

2:04:34>> Madame Chair, yes, I do have a question

2:04:36and maybe I can get some guidance from

2:04:39our county attorney relative to

2:04:41communication.

2:04:42So, I've heard the testimony today that

2:04:47approximately

2:04:49120 letters were sent out, but then we

2:04:52have testimony of individuals here

2:04:54saying that they were not contacted.

2:04:58I can count approximately

2:05:01100 plus

2:05:04here and in our overflow.

2:05:06And if I could do a visual straw poll to

2:05:11ask those individuals to raise their

2:05:13hands if they were notified with a

2:05:14letter, that would be helpful for me. My

2:05:17visual

2:05:19if that's if that's possible.

2:05:21>> You could certainly do that. Um I don't

2:05:23know if Kirk wants to weigh in about

2:05:25what the required um notice area was

2:05:28because it may be some of these folks

2:05:30are outside of that area.

2:05:31>> Thank you, Gordon. Uh again, uh

2:05:33Commissioner McDaniel, uh this the

2:05:36notification requirements for a elected

2:05:38body special use permit are the same as

2:05:41for a reasonzoning case in your

2:05:42jurisdiction. And what that would

2:05:44require is if you take the perimeter of

2:05:47the site, which is this green area

2:05:49that's shown uh on this image here, and

2:05:52extend that polygon 500 ft in any

2:05:56direction,

2:05:57that would be the in fact, actually,

2:06:00I've got a slide showing the

2:06:01notification area.

2:06:05So, this green area right here shows the

2:06:07notification area. Uh, in in looking up

2:06:11the gentleman who spoke uh most recently

2:06:14in the opposition, I believe he resides

2:06:17at this property right here. And it

2:06:20sounds like it was a transposition error

2:06:23in the numbers, the address numbers that

2:06:26the proponent sent out uh as part of

2:06:29their outreach. So again, it sounds like

2:06:32they might have mixed up some of the

2:06:34numbers in that address, but generally

2:06:38this green polygon shows,

2:06:41and just looking at this here, it's

2:06:42clearly less than 100 properties that

2:06:44are in that 500 ft notification that's

2:06:47required from the unified development

2:06:49ordinance. Now certainly a petitioner is

2:06:52welcome to go beyond that but I would

2:06:56say it's probably less than 20

2:06:58properties that would have actually been

2:07:00required to be notified as part of the

2:07:02UDO

2:07:03>> less than 20. Okay.

2:07:05>> Again just looking at the image here in

2:07:07the property lines.

2:07:09>> All right. Thank you. would the um

2:07:13with what the break [clears throat] the

2:07:16regulation is as far as planning

2:07:20did this person the best you can tell

2:07:23did they get a letter from the planning

2:07:26now I can understand where's possibility

2:07:28that the the uh uh petitioners

2:07:33could have missed something but also

2:07:37it did the

2:07:39it's not going to change anything I

2:07:41don't guess but did the uh planning did

2:07:43they

2:07:44was it missed by planning also

2:07:47>> so commissioner Lynville our policy with

2:07:50uh special use permits is different than

2:07:52with resonings since the planning board

2:07:55does not allow folks to speak on uh

2:07:58special use permits since that would be

2:08:00considered exparte communication and

2:08:03would be inadmissible into the record

2:08:05for you all to consider. We didn't want

2:08:08folks to again make them aware of

2:08:11something that they didn't have an

2:08:12opportunity to participate in. However,

2:08:15I believe the clerk would have sent the

2:08:17folks in that radius uh notification of

2:08:20this public hearing.

2:08:26>> If you'll give me just a moment, I can

2:08:27look through my folder.

2:08:29>> Don't put it off on the clerk.

2:08:33No need looking. Um,

2:08:37[sighs]

2:08:38Mr. Attorney, he he u

2:08:43um I was asking questions and

2:08:48and then he

2:08:51politely as he could told me that things

2:08:53that I was asking was out of bounds.

2:08:58And

2:09:00somehow another the uh

2:09:04And you mentioned the planning board not

2:09:07allowing certain things to keep

2:09:11conversation from going on.

2:09:14And so

2:09:16what I have here and what the others u

2:09:20do. I didn't get to

2:09:23u ask the questions then. I don't guess

2:09:26it's a point in um trying to now.

2:09:31But we've got uh five documents

2:09:34excluding the uh

2:09:38signatures that people signed given to

2:09:41us tonight.

2:09:44And

2:09:46if we and and we didn't get uh we didn't

2:09:50get material until Monday the

2:09:54information

2:09:56detailed information Monday of this week

2:10:00and you know with what we got tonight

2:10:04you know how are you to go through all

2:10:07that stuff. So not your fault either.

2:10:11attorney just he's just advising me of

2:10:14what the law is because he knows that I

2:10:17sometimes tend to get out of bounds on

2:10:20it as far as asking questions, not doing

2:10:23something wrong.

2:10:26So

2:10:28>> Kurt, while you're still there, it's

2:10:30been a while since you spoke. Uh could

2:10:33you go back over the findings that the

2:10:36planning board approved?

2:10:41Yes, ma'am. And just to be clear, these

2:10:44the planning board did not have to make

2:10:46these findings. This is the staff's

2:10:48opinion regarding these findings because

2:10:51again, the planning board, they're they

2:10:53effectively are ensuring providing a a

2:10:57secondary check against staff to say

2:10:59that this site plan does meet the UDO

2:11:01requirements.

2:11:03But what the what the staff affirmed

2:11:06again the first finding the use will not

2:11:08materially endanger the public health or

2:11:10safety if located where proposed and

2:11:13developed according to the application

2:11:15and plan as submitted and approved. It's

2:11:18the staff's belief again based on the

2:11:20site plan that the site incorporates

2:11:22stream buffers, storm water management,

2:11:25grading controls that minimize the

2:11:28impacts on natural resources. The site

2:11:30plan balances operational needs with

2:11:32environmental protection. And as was

2:11:36mentioned previously, the presumption in

2:11:39the UDO based on the fact that this use

2:11:41is allowed in the zoning district is

2:11:44that it's not a threat to public health

2:11:46or safety unless there's information

2:11:48that proves that to be otherwise.

2:11:51The second finding is the use meets all

2:11:53required conditions and specifications.

2:11:56Again, that's staff looking at the UDO

2:11:59for the use specific standards for

2:12:01landfills, all other requirements of

2:12:03other departments and agencies. And

2:12:06based on what we were seeing, what was

2:12:08submitted to us with the recognition

2:12:10that they're still going to have to go

2:12:12through some state permitting, Army

2:12:14Corps of Engineer, and some other

2:12:16things, which would have to be submitted

2:12:18before we could actually issue any

2:12:20building permits on the site. We believe

2:12:23that what we've seen so far meets the

2:12:25minimum requirements of the UDO

2:12:29chair.

2:12:30>> Are there further [clears throat]

2:12:30questions?

2:12:31>> I I do. If you don't mind, before we

2:12:34move forward, could you go back to

2:12:36number one where you talk about the

2:12:39public health and safety or proven

2:12:42otherwise? And we just talked about

2:12:44fire. I just need um them to explain the

2:12:48process if you could. If you're not

2:12:50using water, how do you use I think he

2:12:54said this dirt or soil to

2:12:59>> Commissioner McDaniel, I will I would

2:13:01turn to the proponent obviously as a

2:13:04zoning inspections and planning

2:13:06professional. I do not have a background

2:13:07in fire suppression. But if if if at

2:13:11this time you'd like to hear from them

2:13:13or if you'd like me to continue going

2:13:14through the

2:13:15>> Yes, I I just need you to stop right

2:13:16there if it's if it pleases the chair.

2:13:19Thank you.

2:13:20>> Yeah. So, your qu your question is about

2:13:22fire suppression, correct? It's hard to

2:13:24hear when somebody's standing, right? No

2:13:26problem. Um,

2:13:27>> so imagine um you snuffing out a candle,

2:13:32you know, you you smother it, you

2:13:35deplete it of oxygen. Sure.

2:13:36>> And it and it smothers.

2:13:38>> When you put water on a fire on

2:13:41decomposing material that's deep, um it

2:13:45has the opposite effect. it um it

2:13:49increases the decomposition of the

2:13:51material and it generates more heat and

2:13:53when you have more heat and oxygen fire

2:13:57so we want to smother it like putting

2:13:59out a candle.

2:14:00>> Could you walk me a little bit through

2:14:02what that might look like?

2:14:04>> Yeah. So again, Stacy mentioned that

2:14:07this and there may be some misconception

2:14:10here. This is a phased project. So we

2:14:12don't we don't open up more than a few

2:14:15acres at a time to fill. Once it's

2:14:18achieved its grade that we're happy

2:14:21with, we move.

2:14:24So in theory, you excavate out. You fill

2:14:27[snorts] the cell. You cover it monthly.

2:14:31We have to cover monthly. Uh if it if

2:14:33it's untouched for more than three

2:14:35months, it's it's a foot, I believe,

2:14:37Stacy. Is that is that correct?

2:14:40>> Yeah.

2:14:40>> Foot at the end.

2:14:41>> Yeah. Foot. Yeah. that um and as you

2:14:44move you're borrowing soil from adjacent

2:14:48the adjacent cell. So there's soil cover

2:14:51readily available at each motion in that

2:14:55as you move the landfill around.

2:14:57>> Sure. So how do you react to um a warm

2:15:00day maybe 90 or 100 degrees

2:15:04>> and something just transpires?

2:15:07Uh

2:15:09you you mean as far as uh heat and and

2:15:12and fire

2:15:13>> a flame? Yes.

2:15:15>> Yeah.

2:15:16>> So there in in an operations manual that

2:15:19Stacy provides.

2:15:20>> Okay.

2:15:21>> Later on once once the facility has been

2:15:23designed through NCDQ through all the

2:15:26state permitting, we have an operations

2:15:29manual and it tra it trains you to

2:15:32identify different types of fires. Um,

2:15:37steam is is common. You know, it's

2:15:39decomposing material. So, you'll see

2:15:41steam and some people uh mistake that

2:15:44for smoke. There's certain ways to

2:15:46identify that smoke. Okay?

2:15:47>> And once you identify the smoke, then

2:15:50you can investigate

2:15:52what what is actually happening. Once

2:15:54you establish that, then you can uh

2:16:00pick your way of putting out the fire.

2:16:01Let's just be simple, you Looks like

2:16:03[laughter]

2:16:04>> but typically we would commission I

2:16:06think he has a followup.

2:16:08>> I'm just curious. You mentioned the fire

2:16:10at another landfill. Was that accidental

2:16:12or incendiary?

2:16:13>> I I don't know. Um I'm familiar with the

2:16:16with the uh facility. Uh and this looks

2:16:20this is just my opinion. Um I I feel

2:16:23that uh Davidson County and and you

2:16:26can't compare Davidson County to force

2:16:28county. Um,

2:16:30but there I I feel like their uh

2:16:33regulatory uh inspections, so to speak,

2:16:36may be a little lesser than than for

2:16:38Scythe County or or state.

2:16:43>> Uh, you know, I I'm familiar with the

2:16:44site. Uh, I've hauled material to that

2:16:47site and I just I can't speak to I don't

2:16:51know. Um that question comes up a lot

2:16:54though especially on a landfill you know

2:16:58purposely said or maybe said by someone

2:17:00I don't know but you know nobody wants

2:17:02that.

2:17:02>> Thank you. Thank you.

2:17:06>> All right. Uh if I may continue

2:17:07answering your question uh commissioner

2:17:09chair whizzen hunt. The third finding

2:17:12effect is that this use will not

2:17:14substantially injure the value of a

2:17:16joining or a budding property or that

2:17:18the use is a public necessity. Again,

2:17:21planning staff does not have the

2:17:23expertise to make property value

2:17:25determinations since we're not licensed

2:17:27appraisers. And the final finding is

2:17:29that the location and character of the

2:17:31use, if developed according to the

2:17:33application and plan submitted and

2:17:35approved, will be in harmony with the

2:17:38area in which it is to be located and in

2:17:40general conformity with forward 2045,

2:17:42the comprehensive plan. In staff's

2:17:45opinion, due to the impacts large LCIDs

2:17:49can have on neighboring properties, this

2:17:51use is well situated for large tracks of

2:17:53land where the topography and size of

2:17:56the site can limit its effects on

2:17:58surrounding properties. Furthermore, the

2:18:01applicant has added additional screening

2:18:03along Salem Chapel Road to minimize

2:18:06future visual impacts. And as stated

2:18:09previously, the presumption is that if a

2:18:11use is permitted in the zoning district,

2:18:14it's in harmony with the area until

2:18:16proven otherwise.

2:18:17>> Okay. Thank you. I'll permit one more

2:18:20from Commissioner Woodbury and then I'm

2:18:22going to declare close session. Close.

2:18:25>> Thank you, Chair Wizen Hunts. Oh,

2:18:28try to lose some of this stuff.

2:18:31Good information though, and I'm doing

2:18:33my best to try to review it as quickly

2:18:34as possible. Um, but what did catch my

2:18:39attention and this may be you're Mr.

2:18:41Dolan? This may be for you. Um, I'm

2:18:44sorry I couldn't get it before he kind

2:18:46of finalized the point. I'm looking at

2:18:48the statement of intent for the special

2:18:51special use permit so that we're on the

2:18:53same page. And there is an indication

2:18:56around an impact of the new state rules

2:19:00effective January 1st of this year,

2:19:02which is one of the reasons why you're

2:19:05trying to ask for this special permit

2:19:08um to the need for land clearing and

2:19:12inert debris management. Could you

2:19:15specify um the new state rule that has

2:19:19kind of generated this interest to um

2:19:23create um this you know addition to your

2:19:26business?

2:19:27>> Yeah. So, in the past, uh, the state

2:19:29would recognize what they call notified

2:19:31sites, less than two acres,

2:19:33>> and typically they were, um, they were

2:19:37for,

2:19:38uh, let's say contractors to use to

2:19:41dispose,

2:19:43um, of material for their own project.

2:19:46>> So, you I am in the land clearing and

2:19:49grading business. So I would um take the

2:19:52material that I

2:19:53>> uh take take off the job sites and take

2:19:55it to that location. Um I think what

2:19:58happened was is the people started uh

2:20:02accepting money for those materials is

2:20:06one reason. And so the state uh I guess

2:20:10they

2:20:12changed the rules to where those smaller

2:20:14notified sites had to comply with the

2:20:18same process that we're going through

2:20:20here and the permitting that going

2:20:21through here. it would they all they had

2:20:23to do was notify uh that they were there

2:20:26with the register D I believe is that

2:20:29correct?

2:20:29>> Yeah. And the state.

2:20:30>> Yeah. In the state. Yeah.

2:20:31>> I guess one of the things it was it was

2:20:33somewhat of a a smaller exemption that

2:20:36uh that happened for small sites. And so

2:20:39then what uh began to happen was people

2:20:41would subdivide their parcels

2:20:44>> into two acre pieces. And there were

2:20:47numerous sites that may had five and six

2:20:49LCID landfills on a parcel. And uh and I

2:20:53don't know what the total number, but

2:20:54there could have been a thousand of

2:20:56these across North Carolina. Um and they

2:21:00had a hard time managing them. Um it was

2:21:03hard to keep up with uh again, you know,

2:21:06them getting approved so forth. So they

2:21:08finally sunset that rule and that

2:21:11happened at the end of last year. And

2:21:13again, all of those notified sites uh

2:21:16had to close or get permitted.

2:21:19>> Okay. So, you're responding to a new

2:21:21state rule to try to really sustain your

2:21:25business model. Is is that another way

2:21:27of saying it or am I missing?

2:21:30>> I was saying that in other words, you're

2:21:33trying to you need a special permit to

2:21:36try to sustain the business that you

2:21:39have as it relates to No. Well, I mean

2:21:43obviously, but it's, you know, it's a

2:21:45it's a big facility and it's it's we

2:21:48take material from every every

2:21:50but we have to we have, you know, we

2:21:53have to have that special permit to

2:21:55proceed.

2:21:56>> It's not just for my business, I guess,

2:21:58>> helps your business and others.

2:22:01>> Yeah. So other

2:22:03>> Yes.

2:22:05Every can can bring material into this

2:22:07site. So before you had this site where

2:22:10you would take it somewhere.

2:22:12>> Yeah. I mean there's only one in force

2:22:14county and I guess I think you guys

2:22:16heard that case last Okay. Last month

2:22:19and

2:22:21that's it. All the notified sites have

2:22:24either been closed because of the

2:22:26permitting requirement that we're here

2:22:29tonight for or they're at capacity.

2:22:32They're small sites. Two acres, you

2:22:34know, wouldn't take long to fill that.

2:22:36And and I'll add that at this point

2:22:38moving to the permitted site, it moves

2:22:41to a more robust process in permitting

2:22:45for the state to be able to better

2:22:47manage debris. And you know, as we know,

2:22:49debris uh will be in advance of

2:22:52development, clearing, uh then once uh

2:22:55development happens, then it'll again

2:22:57continue to be the maintenance of

2:22:58properties and so forth. Uh again, the

2:23:02materials that go in it are non-painted,

2:23:04non-treated,

2:23:06brick, block, concrete, uh clearing

2:23:08debris, and yard waste.

2:23:13>> Thank you. I declare the public hearing

2:23:16closed. I will entertain a motion.

2:23:23Do I have a motion?

2:23:27Right. I have a motion.

2:23:35Okay. Are you going?

2:23:39>> Huh?

2:23:42What?

2:23:47>> I ask a question.

2:23:48>> No, sir. The public hearing is closed.

2:23:57>> Yes. We need a motion before we have

2:23:59discussion.

2:24:00>> Correct.

2:24:02>> All right. Well, I move that the board

2:24:04of commissioners find that the proponent

2:24:06has proved the four required findings of

2:24:07fact based upon testimony presented in

2:24:09the hearing on August 27, 2026 and that

2:24:12the special use permit be approved.

2:24:17>> Is there a second?

2:24:20>> I will second that. Sir, please, please,

2:24:24sir,

2:24:25>> could you please leave? It is over. The

2:24:28public hearing is over. We're going to

2:24:30vote. There's been a motion by

2:24:33Commissioner Vice Chair Wilson and

2:24:36second by myself. All in, we'll have

2:24:39discussion.

2:24:40>> Discussion.

2:24:41Um

2:24:44yeah, I think that that generally the

2:24:46proponents done a a good job of their

2:24:48environmental studies uh and their

2:24:51design. I I do have specific concerns

2:24:55about the compatibility with uh with

2:25:00adjoining uses and in particular with

2:25:04the safety question.

2:25:07Um uh as

2:25:10uh evidenced by the the photographs in

2:25:14the record of the narrow lanes and the

2:25:20limited sight lines

2:25:23uh and uh the proposed location

2:25:28uh of the entrance exit. Um

2:25:34I would welcome discussion though

2:25:37>> there further discussion.

2:25:38>> Yes,

2:25:39>> Commissioner Limbo.

2:25:46>> I would say that well

2:25:50I'll keep it short as I can.

2:25:54I visited this area again yesterday,

2:26:01which it had been

2:26:04quite a while. I'd gone through the

2:26:06area. So, I I do know the

2:26:08[clears throat] area. I just go through

2:26:10through there from time to time, but it

2:26:12it' been quite a while since I'd uh

2:26:17been through there. So what I did, I

2:26:19came off of Pine Hall Road on Salem

2:26:21Chapel Road and uh

2:26:27I don't know that I mention saw

2:26:30u or met a vehicle uh going down. I got

2:26:33on down to the site where the sign was

2:26:35and I I just stopped and

2:26:39u visualized it. I didn't get out.

2:26:42There's a little null there. I think if

2:26:44I'd have walked up on it, I could have

2:26:46saw the topo

2:26:48uh

2:26:50better, but I know generally uh what it

2:26:55is in that

2:26:57general area. So then I um

2:27:01it talks about

2:27:03dense trees. I guess depending on um

2:27:07what you call dense is whether that was

2:27:10dense or not. the uh it's been logged at

2:27:13some period of time and I don't think

2:27:16just recently could have been two three

2:27:19years ago might have been longer some

2:27:22regrowth and I proceeded on down to

2:27:26where um Salem Chapel makes a hard left

2:27:31turn and where rest uh West Road u

2:27:36starts

2:27:38and so uh followed pursued on down Salem

2:27:44Chapel down the hill and up the hill and

2:27:48around the real sharp curve. It goes by

2:27:50the railroad track and I went out there

2:27:52and went down 311 a little ways and

2:27:55turned around came back because I want

2:27:58to go down. It' been really a long time

2:28:00since I'd been down through West Road.

2:28:04And

2:28:06so I went down the hill and around the

2:28:09curve and

2:28:11up some other slight hills I guess you

2:28:14would u call it and come out again over

2:28:18there on um Pine Hall Road. So I just

2:28:24wanted to reacquaint myself and from the

2:28:28particular West Road

2:28:31from the time I'd been through it before

2:28:34there had been some um

2:28:37uh changes. So

2:28:41[sighs]

2:28:42well as much I could say but it's not

2:28:44too much point going further. It would

2:28:47uh

2:28:50when we get ready to I think we are

2:28:53getting close to being ready to vote.

2:28:58I myself

2:29:00uh find it difficult to find in the

2:29:03firmity for all four of them.

2:29:09Uh number one partially it talks about

2:29:12public health and the the the site

2:29:15itself

2:29:17the field if it was done

2:29:20like u is intended to be and regulations

2:29:25to be

2:29:27I don't see that but I'm not a um

2:29:33one that investigates

2:29:36uh streams but I know about

2:29:40streams

2:29:42where I farm. They're all around.

2:29:46Do the best protection I uh can cuz one

2:29:49day somebody's going to put the hammer

2:29:51down on me for something. I don't know

2:29:54what it'll be, but uh some kind of a

2:29:58regulation or we got plenty of that. So,

2:30:04and we were all would [clears throat]

2:30:08um

2:30:10we talk about traffic. People ask me

2:30:13about traffic situation. I said, "Yes,

2:30:16traffic situation going to get more in

2:30:18for size county, not going to get less."

2:30:20Well, why is it? It's because all of the

2:30:23things that's here. And a few months

2:30:26ago, I asked I'd always want wondered

2:30:29for some period of time, how many jobs

2:30:31is it related to health care and for

2:30:35South County hospitals, all of these uh

2:30:39uh doctor's offices and other things.

2:30:41And I I just had a guess in my mind and

2:30:45the um person that was here making some

2:30:49presentations to us about something

2:30:51else. I asked the person I knew they

2:30:53could get the information and by the

2:30:56next day they they had it. I think they

2:30:58sent it to all of us. It was u 40,000

2:31:02people.

2:31:04All of them don't live here. Some of

2:31:05them drive 50 miles. So

2:31:10that's that's why we've got a lot of u u

2:31:14traffic and all of us that drives cars,

2:31:18anything will drive. we are part just a

2:31:22fraction of the um traffic situation.

2:31:28So,

2:31:32but I do find it hard. Me personally,

2:31:36I uh if if there is um

2:31:41uh

2:31:43any danger in regard to all of this, it

2:31:46would seem to me it could occur on

2:31:50roads. And I think attorney said that I

2:31:53couldn't talk about roads, but some of

2:31:54the rest of them have. And so is road

2:31:57one of the things not supposed to talk

2:31:59about Mr. Attorney?

2:32:02Is it not relevant? If it's not

2:32:03relevant,

2:32:04>> I would say generally the the road would

2:32:06be a a NC DOT issue.

2:32:09>> Okay.

2:32:12Can't ask questions that I'd like to

2:32:15because of way the laws are. And uh the

2:32:19number three that says about uh uh

2:32:24injury to u a joining and uh a budding

2:32:29property and uh we only had one that

2:32:34said that they actually adjoined it. But

2:32:38does

2:32:40does that number three just indicate to

2:32:43a budding property?

2:32:45Does it not go any further than that? Is

2:32:48that where it stops?

2:32:53>> Gen generally that's true, but there

2:32:55there was testimony um from both parties

2:32:58about um either there being

2:33:03um an injury to the adjoining properties

2:33:06or they're not. There was testimony from

2:33:09both sides about that.

2:33:12>> Okay, that's all I have. I've had plenty

2:33:14more but

2:33:15>> other discussion

2:33:17I would like to um add that um

2:33:22I am um absolutely excited to see so

2:33:26many of our citizens in here tonight to

2:33:28express your commitment and concerns

2:33:31around for county and to have a voice

2:33:34and participate in this process. Um, so

2:33:38I I want to start off by saying that I

2:33:42also want to um let you know that as um

2:33:45for myself as a foray county

2:33:47commissioner, I absolutely appreciate

2:33:50the hard work and dedication of staff to

2:33:53provide recommendations to us because

2:33:56they do a lot of the work to help us to

2:34:00make sound decisions which I will tell

2:34:03you does not um appease everyone. and we

2:34:07have had to learn to do the best that we

2:34:10can based on the information that we

2:34:13have in order to, you know, vote um on

2:34:16your behalf, if you will. Um and like I

2:34:19said, you know, even with the

2:34:21information that we get, it doesn't

2:34:23always satisfy everyone. In addition

2:34:26though to our staff, we also have a city

2:34:30county planning board. And I think that

2:34:34that board was also um highlighted

2:34:37tonight as a group of citizens that um

2:34:41are um um appointed by way of their

2:34:44application processes if um if my

2:34:47understanding is correct how that board

2:34:49is chosen. So they you know apply

2:34:51because they're interested in hearing

2:34:53these issues and then giving also their

2:34:56feedback. And there is um you know

2:34:59everyone on the city county planning

2:35:01board voted in the affirmation to

2:35:04support this project too. And I think

2:35:08that um with those kinds of um kind of

2:35:11feedback coming to at least for myself

2:35:13as a county commissioner, I start to um

2:35:18agree with what the recommendation you

2:35:21know is. But what I will tell you is

2:35:23that I am, you know, um, very cognizant

2:35:26that the citizens of Fory County in this

2:35:30area have concerns about, you know, this

2:35:33project and I hope, however this turns

2:35:36out, that you all will um, work together

2:35:39to move forward to the to the best of

2:35:41your ability. Thank you.

2:35:43>> All in favor of the motion, please say

2:35:46I.

2:35:47>> I.

2:35:50opposed.

2:35:51>> No.

2:35:52>> No.

2:35:53>> Okay. That is uh it is denied uh with

2:35:59four to three vote.

2:36:01>> Chair Wizzen Hunt, I did not catch that

2:36:03vote. Do you do you mind asking again?

2:36:05>> Yes, please.

2:36:06>> Let's do it by hand. All in favor,

2:36:08please raise your hand.

2:36:11>> All opposed.

2:36:14Board three den.

2:36:20>> [applause]

2:36:25>> I can I can make a motion. [applause]

2:36:27>> There's no need to. It's been [snorts]

2:36:29denied.

2:36:31>> There's no need to have.

2:36:32>> We We will need a motion to deny.

2:36:34>> You do?

2:36:35>> Yes, we do need a motion.

2:36:36>> Okay. Go ahead,

2:36:38>> sir. Could you all please leave and

2:36:41settle down so we can finish the

2:36:42meeting?

2:36:44>> Please. We have another motion to make.

2:36:47Please settle down.

2:36:50>> There there is another motion required.

2:36:53Um uh I and honestly I f found this to

2:36:57be a close call.

2:36:58>> Please be quiet,

2:37:00>> which is why I didn't make a motion

2:37:02initially. I wanted to go into

2:37:03discussion.

2:37:05Um but I move that the board of

2:37:06commissioners find that the required

2:37:08findings of fact to grant a special use

2:37:10permit have not been provided as

2:37:13follows. Um I can't um support uh

2:37:18finding number one that the use will not

2:37:21material endanger the public health or

2:37:24safety if located where proposed and

2:37:26developed according to the application

2:37:28and plan as submitted.

2:37:30Um uh and that is due to the

2:37:36uh

2:37:38the narrow and uh narrow lanes and um

2:37:42difficult sight lines that um the site

2:37:47the the access way to the site appears

2:37:51to be incompatible with um multiple

2:37:55large truck traffic. Okay. uh and

2:38:00um

2:38:02can't support finding number four that

2:38:04the location and character of the use if

2:38:06developed according to the application

2:38:08and plan submitted and approved will be

2:38:10in harmony with the area in which is be

2:38:12located and in general conformity with

2:38:14Ford 2045 in that uh I find that it

2:38:19fails to protect agricultural lands from

2:38:22incompatible development since there is

2:38:24presently no other commercial or

2:38:27industrial use uh in the area.

2:38:33>> You might want to raise finding three

2:38:35also. I'm sorry. Uh and finding three

2:38:38that the use will not substantially

2:38:41uh injure the value or of joining or

2:38:43budding property or if the use is a

2:38:45public necessity. uh in that there was

2:38:48conflicting testimony regarding

2:38:50potential impacts on the uh value of a

2:38:54joining or budding property and

2:38:55therefore uh they're not being uh the

2:39:00greater weight of the evidence clearly

2:39:01in favor of uh of

2:39:05the [snorts] affirmative finding that

2:39:06the site that the use will not

2:39:08substantially injure the value of

2:39:10adjoining or budding property fails. uh

2:39:13and for these reasons.

2:39:16Therefore, based upon these findings of

2:39:18fact, I move the special use permit be

2:39:20denied.

2:39:22>> Second.

2:39:23[applause]

2:39:24>> All in all in favor of the motion,

2:39:27please raise your hand.

2:39:30Two, three, four. All opposed.

2:39:34Okay, the motion passes four to three.

2:39:42We're going to take a five minute break.

2:39:48It could.

2:44:08Please calm down. We're going to finish

2:44:10our meeting. The next item on the agenda

2:44:13is a resolution confirming for county

2:44:16board of commissioners received and

2:44:18reviewed the Winston Salem Forsight

2:44:20County school long range plan for school

2:44:23facil facility needs. Uh I need a

2:44:27motion.

2:44:29Approval.

2:44:30>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

2:44:33Second, second by Commissioner uh

2:44:35McDaniel. All in favor say I.

2:44:38>> I.

2:44:38>> Opposed.

2:44:41>> The next item on the agenda is a

2:44:44resolution authorizing removal of a

2:44:46certain fees for the fee schedule for

2:44:49the Forers County Department of Public

2:44:51Health. Is there a motion?

2:44:54>> Move to approve.

2:44:56>> Move. Move to approve by Commissioner

2:44:59uh McDaniel and second by Commissioner

2:45:02Bessie. Is there discussion?

2:45:06All in favor say I.

2:45:08>> I.

2:45:08>> Opposed? That's unanimous.

2:45:14The next item on the agenda is a public

2:45:16session. Madame clerk, do we have cards

2:45:19or a call?

2:45:23Madam Chair, we don't have any callers,

2:45:25but we do have speaker cards.

2:45:27>> How many?

2:45:28>> 14.

2:45:29>> 14.

2:45:29>> Yes, ma'am.

2:45:31>> Are any of them on

2:45:33>> I don't think we did the um approval of

2:45:35the minutes.

2:45:39>> Okay, let's do that then. Uh approval of

2:45:42our minutes from the special meeting of

2:45:45August 10th, 2026 and regular meeting of

2:45:49August 13th. Need a motion.

2:45:53>> Move to approve. Commissioner Woodbury.

2:45:56Second, Commissioner Bessie. Is there

2:45:58discussion? All in favor say I.

2:46:01>> I.

2:46:03>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Thank you.

2:46:07Okay. Um,

2:46:10we will start the public session.

2:46:14The first speaker is Deborah Demsky.

2:46:16Please come forward. State your name and

2:46:17address for the record.

2:46:22Good evening. I'm Deborah Demsky,

2:46:261722 Princeton Street, Winston Salem, 27

2:46:31103.

2:46:32>> Okay. And you have three minutes.

2:46:34>> Uh I'm coming to you tonight as chair of

2:46:37the Foothills Group of the North

2:46:38Carolina Sierra Club representing over a

2:46:41thousand members across Davidson Davyy

2:46:43for Scythe, Stoke, Surrey, and Yaken

2:46:45counties.

2:46:47Congratulation, Chair Weisen Hunt, for

2:46:50your election and welcome to the board,

2:46:52Mr. Parker. Uh, I want to thank you for

2:46:56the no data center rural hall

2:46:59uh for denying that project irons for

2:47:02reasonzoning request. That action

2:47:04protects for scythe businesses,

2:47:06residents, and resources. We appreciate

2:47:09your willingness to engage with experts

2:47:13for a deeper understanding of how hypers

2:47:15scale data centers impact local

2:47:17communities. More applications are

2:47:20coming and as evidenced from your

2:47:22discussion on uh the me the briefing

2:47:26earlier this week. You know that it's

2:47:27important to have zoning regulations

2:47:30that will help determine appropriate

2:47:32environments for hypers scale data

2:47:34centers. We need standards for how they

2:47:37should be built and how they should

2:47:39operate within our county. We need

2:47:41guarantees that companies will be

2:47:43required to create the infrastructure

2:47:45and pay for the resources that are going

2:47:48to be necessary for the buildout and

2:47:50maintenance of these businesses. These

2:47:53costs should not be shifted to

2:47:55residents.

2:47:58Also in Foothills, we do support the

2:48:00Clemens residents opposition to the

2:48:02asphalt plant plan for their

2:48:04neighborhoods. it's too close to the

2:48:06homes and schools. We hope that the

2:48:08results of the environmental assistance

2:48:11actions uh will prevent pollution in the

2:48:14community. We understand that this

2:48:17board's role is limited and we thank you

2:48:20for listening to your residents

2:48:22concerns.

2:48:24Thank you for participating in CPACE to

2:48:26make electrification more affordable and

2:48:29for denying the LCID permit tonight. And

2:48:34once again, thank you for having evening

2:48:36meetings. I know this makes it go late,

2:48:38but thank you all so much.

2:48:40>> Thank you,

2:48:45>> Madam Chair. I misspoke misspoke

2:48:48earlier. It's only 13 cards.

2:48:50>> Okay.

2:48:50>> Okay. So, the next speaker

2:48:52>> That makes me feel better.

2:48:54>> It's one less.

2:48:56The next speaker is Lee Everage. Please

2:48:58come forward. State your name and

2:48:59address for the record.

2:49:08>> [clears throat]

2:49:10>> Hi, I'm Lee Lee Everage. My address is

2:49:124200 Lake Cliff Drive in Clemens.

2:49:16Madam Chair and member commissioners,

2:49:19I have lived, worked, and raised

2:49:21children in Clemens for 26 years. This

2:49:24is my home, and it's because I care so

2:49:26deeply about our community that I'm

2:49:28standing here today. I'm asking you

2:49:31[clears throat] to use every lawful

2:49:32county authority to pause approvals for

2:49:35the proposed May asphalt plant at 6010

2:49:39Gun Club Road until the public receives

2:49:42a complete independent review of the

2:49:44site.

2:49:46To be clear, my neighbors and I are not

2:49:48here to argue that all asphalt plants

2:49:50are unacceptable. We're here because

2:49:53this specific location combines too many

2:49:56avoidable risks.

2:49:58First, consider the air pollution or air

2:50:00quality for the surrounding area. The

2:50:03EPA's own materials explicitly identify

2:50:06the dangers of hot mix asphalt

2:50:08production,

2:50:09including particulate matter, volatile

2:50:12organic compounds, and hazardous air

2:50:15pollutants.

2:50:16These emissions don't just stay in a

2:50:18controlled stack. The EPA notes they

2:50:22escape during silo filling, truck

2:50:24loading, and transport.

2:50:27This is exactly why the North Carolina

2:50:30DEEQ requires applications to address

2:50:33criteria pollutants and 97 different

2:50:35state toxic air pollutants. The EPA

2:50:39warns that children, older adults, and

2:50:42people with heart or lung disease are

2:50:44especially vulnerable to this particle

2:50:48pollution. Furthermore, with diesel

2:50:50exhaust from the added truck traffic is

2:50:53classified by the World Health

2:50:54Organization's cancer agency as

2:50:57carcinogenic to humans.

2:51:00Second, consider the daily traffic

2:51:02impact on our families. Kinnaman Road is

2:51:05a two-lane corridor cutting straight

2:51:07through residential areas where citizens

2:51:10live.

2:51:11According to Clemen's own February 2026

2:51:14minutes, the 60-year-old Kinnaman Road

2:51:17bridge over I40 is scheduled for an

2:51:20approximate $12 million replacement.

2:51:23Construction is planned for 2028,

2:51:26meaning an 18-month closure and detour.

2:51:29Before approving a truck inensive use

2:51:32here, the public deserves verified daily

2:51:35and peak truck counts, routes, turning

2:51:38analyses, crash history, school bus

2:51:41conflicts, and emergency access plan for

2:51:44that closure. Third, and lastly, look at

2:51:47the water and the flooding risks. Public

2:51:50property data identifies this 5.49

2:51:54acre parcel as FEMA zone AE.

2:51:58FEMA defines this as a high-risk 1%

2:52:01annual chance flood plane. This means

2:52:03like over 30 years, it translate to a

2:52:0626% chance flood event. Building a

2:52:09hazardous industrial plant right in a

2:52:11flood zone threatens our entire

2:52:14community's water.

2:52:16>> Ma'am,

2:52:18that was it. Thank you. You have a fact

2:52:20sheet there. I passed it out.

2:52:22>> Thank you.

2:52:29The next speaker is Andrea. Please come

2:52:32forward. State your name and address for

2:52:33the record, please.

2:52:38Hello. Hello everybody. Thank you for

2:52:41being here and for your time. My name is

2:52:43Andrea Vale. I live at um 4370 Bridal

2:52:48Path um Winston Salem address in

2:52:51Clemens. I had a perfectly timed talk

2:52:54about air pollution, traffic, water, and

2:52:56flooding. It's all very, very important.

2:52:59Um, but sitting here, I rewrote the

2:53:02whole thing. Um, EPA says children,

2:53:05older adults, and people with heart or

2:53:07lung disease are especially vulnerable

2:53:09to particle pollution. Um, so to Mr.

2:53:13Barnett's point about the effects of an

2:53:16asphalt plant placed in our community

2:53:18not reaching as far as Tanglewood, which

2:53:21is only 2.6 miles away. Could you

2:53:25describe Well, I'm asking for um I guess

2:53:28the research and data to also

2:53:32um consider

2:53:34um the radius of impact for a plant like

2:53:38this. Um what's the effect at one mile?

2:53:42Um, what about two miles that radius

2:53:45around our community?

2:53:47What about the air quality um on the

2:53:50just on just the other side of the fence

2:53:53line um where neighbors on Cockill live

2:53:57right there? There's a neighborhood just

2:53:59on the other side of that fence. Um are

2:54:03the nearby schools being considered?

2:54:05What about preschools? There are a lot

2:54:07around us. Um my daughter who's 5 years

2:54:10old, she goes to one. In fact, we moved

2:54:12here just over a year ago so that she

2:54:14could be part of that school system. Um,

2:54:17we estimate over 5,000 young boys and

2:54:21girls will be exposed.

2:54:23And finally, the asphalt plant on

2:54:26Cloverleaf is only 2.7 miles away as the

2:54:29crow flies um

2:54:33from 60 um 10 Gun Club Road. So will

2:54:38those emissions also intermingle with

2:54:40the proposed site? Um is that data being

2:54:44considered and will um that modeling

2:54:47allow for those um for those markers? Um

2:54:53thank you very much for your time. I

2:54:55really appreciate you. Um and yeah,

2:54:59thanks for listening. And may I say we

2:55:01appreciate everybody being here, but as

2:55:04we've explained, we will never be voting

2:55:08>> on that issue. It's it's we do not have

2:55:11the authority to do so. And I I

2:55:14appreciate you all being here, but I

2:55:16just I just don't want anybody to leave

2:55:18and think that in the future we'll be

2:55:20voting on it because we will not. Thank

2:55:23you.

2:55:29The next speaker is Doug Guyger. Please

2:55:32come forward. State your name and

2:55:33address for the record.

2:55:44My name is um Doug Guyger and I live at

2:55:47uh 4682

2:55:49Greenale Way. We understand that um

2:55:53you're not going to vote on this. We

2:55:55just it's important for us to have our

2:55:57voices heard.

2:55:59um on a number of different aspects

2:56:01concerning this. I'm here tonight to

2:56:04urge this board to protect our community

2:56:07and our natural [clears throat]

2:56:08infrastructure

2:56:10by actively opposing the proposed May

2:56:12asphalt plant.

2:56:15This is not your standard industrial

2:56:17project. This high [clears throat]

2:56:19emission facility is slated for a small

2:56:225.49 49 acre site positioned directly

2:56:27along the fragile border of the Muddy

2:56:29Creek repairarian corridor. We are

2:56:33facing an irreversible threat to our

2:56:35local environment, our native wildlife

2:56:39and the physical health of thousands of

2:56:41local families. An asphalt plant at this

2:56:44low elevation basis will trap and

2:56:48release toxic vol organic compounds like

2:56:51benzene and formaldahhide

2:56:54[clears throat] alongside fine partic

2:56:57particulate matter. Um these emissions

2:57:00are known to be carcinogen.

2:57:03They will drift directly into dense

2:57:06residential neighborhoods and has been

2:57:09mentioned local hospitals, schools and

2:57:12children's athletic facilities. We are

2:57:16talking about a lot of health risks for

2:57:18both the children and senior citizens.

2:57:21Furthermore, this location threatens a

2:57:24vital ecological highway. It is the

2:57:27[clears throat] lifeblood for highly

2:57:29vulnerable species including the state

2:57:31indentured

2:57:33bat, the threatened bog turtle and

2:57:36protected raptors like bald eagle and

2:57:39the list list goes on and on. And if

2:57:42this plant is built, industrial storm

2:57:45water runoff

2:57:47carrying [clears throat] petroleum uh

2:57:49residues and stone dust will inevitably

2:57:52leech into muddy creek, clouding the

2:57:55waters, choking aquatic life and

2:57:58poisoning the food chain from the bottom

2:58:00up. While the land may carry an

2:58:03industrial zone label, its geographic

2:58:06reality dictates that it is

2:58:08fundamentally incompatible

2:58:10with a high heat, high pollution

2:58:12operation. We cannot allow short-term

2:58:16industrial placement

2:58:19to destroy [clears throat] a permanent

2:58:20ecological treasure and endanger

2:58:23adjacent neighboring food processing

2:58:25businesses like Golding Farms and Joyce

2:58:29Farms. Commissioners,

2:58:31>> sir, could you wrap it up, please?

2:58:33>> Yes. Yes, ma'am. Um, you we know that

2:58:36you have a duty to the public interest,

2:58:38and we urge that you cooperate with the

2:58:41uh appropriate agencies um to enforce

2:58:44the highest standards uh of review in

2:58:47order to stand with the thousands of

2:58:49residents who call this area their home.

2:58:53>> Thank you.

2:58:54>> Thank you for your time.

2:58:57[applause]

2:59:02The next speaker is JC Church. Please

2:59:05come forward. State your name and

2:59:06address for the record.

2:59:18Good evening. My name is JC Church. I

2:59:21live at 4771

2:59:23Bridal Path in Winston Salem.

2:59:27I had a statement prepared and and ready

2:59:30to cover everything and it was basically

2:59:32the to talk about Kenan Road the the the

2:59:34only access to this asphalt plant. Um

2:59:39but you know after hearing uh I think it

2:59:41was somewhat covered but you know the

2:59:43the thing that

2:59:46I struggle with is you know when I when

2:59:49I look at the mission statements for the

2:59:52environmental protection it talks about

2:59:54protecting people talks about protecting

2:59:56environment that talk about asphalt

2:59:59plants that has used a loophole in the

3:00:04zoning to move to our area right in the

3:00:08middle of an industrial area.

3:00:11I understand, you know, what as far as

3:00:14the process with this permit that um

3:00:19all the information that's input, all

3:00:21the experts that are looking at it, what

3:00:23information are they inputting? They're

3:00:25inputting information that comes from

3:00:27Maymade,

3:00:29they've got the answers to the test.

3:00:32They have consultants, they have

3:00:34lawyers. They put a lot of money into

3:00:37this.

3:00:38And it's beyond my belief is that when

3:00:42we put all their information in, of

3:00:45course, it's going to be within the

3:00:46tolerances, isn't that's what they're

3:00:50paying the people for, but I think it's

3:00:52about time for somebody to protect the

3:00:54people.

3:00:57I know that you don't you don't vote on

3:00:59it, but I hope that you have some

3:01:00concern and can

3:01:03make some recommendations or talk to

3:01:04some people and talk some sense into

3:01:06this. I don't understand what's going

3:01:08on.

3:01:11Thank you.

3:01:16[applause]

3:01:21>> The next speaker is Jeff Banks. Please

3:01:24come forward. State your name and

3:01:25address for the record.

3:01:33>> Good afternoon. Uh or good evening. My

3:01:37name is Jeff Banks. I live at 175 Cog

3:01:40Hill Drive, Winston Salem, North

3:01:42Carolina. My property is approximately

3:01:44622 ft from the proposed plant. We live

3:01:50directly off of Gun Club Road and we're

3:01:52right there

3:01:54at the creek behind that runs from

3:01:57Kinnaman up to Lewisville Clemens all

3:02:00the way to Muddy Creek. So you got Muddy

3:02:03Creek on the south and you have the

3:02:05creek that runs from Lewisville Clemens

3:02:08that runs down by our property. So the

3:02:11property that we're talking about is on

3:02:13the hill here on Gun Club Road. The only

3:02:17place that the water has to go is down.

3:02:19It's either going to go into the creek

3:02:21that we're live that is down the hill

3:02:23from it or Muddy Creek if it that's the

3:02:27only way it can go. Um, I'm going to put

3:02:29into what we're asking for. Routine

3:02:33analytical monitoring mainly covers

3:02:36suspended soil and under certain

3:02:38maintenance conditions, oil and grease.

3:02:41Sampling is quarterly and is not

3:02:43required during adverse weather. The

3:02:46permit also benchmarks exceedence or

3:02:49management triggers not themselves

3:02:52permit vi violations. Extreme rain and

3:02:55flooding are exact when contaminant and

3:02:58drainage systems face their hardest

3:03:00test. Potential sources include

3:03:02sediments, and aggreate fines, fuels,

3:03:05motor and hydraulic oil, asphalt, cement

3:03:08additives, maintenance chemicals, and

3:03:10recycled asphalt material. NCDQ

3:03:14also identifies polyitic aromic

3:03:18compounds, metals, and other toxic

3:03:20pollutants associated with asphalt

3:03:22plants. I am asking the applicant must

3:03:25prove before construction that these

3:03:29materials cannot reach the creek during

3:03:31ordinary storms, equipment failures or

3:03:34floods, not just convenient quarterly

3:03:37checks.

3:03:38Please require a sealed flood plane and

3:03:41floodway survey hydraulic hydraologic

3:03:44and hydraulic modeling all tanks, stock

3:03:46piles and chemicals outside the floodway

3:03:49and above the required protection

3:03:51elevation containment size for the

3:03:54largest vessels plus rainfall. A flood

3:03:58shut shutdown and spill response plan. a

3:04:01baseline upstream and downstream water

3:04:04sediment testing followed by the

3:04:07eventbased monitoring also require an

3:04:09independent review public access to the

3:04:11storm water plan and enforceful shutdown

3:04:14triggers. A general permit sets a floor.

3:04:17It does not establish that a small creek

3:04:19adjacent flood plane parcel is a wise

3:04:22location.

3:04:24And I did a simple Google search and the

3:04:27uh Muddy Creek and flows into the Yaken

3:04:31River which supplies

3:04:34uh over 30 municipalities and 21

3:04:37counties with drinking water.

3:04:39>> Sir, your time has expired.

3:04:40>> All right. Thank you, your honor. Or

3:04:46>> that's the way it feels.

3:04:49[laughter]

3:04:52The next speaker is Scott Couch. Please

3:04:54come forward. State your name and

3:04:56address for the record.

3:04:59>> My name is Scott Couch. We own the

3:05:01property at 4641 Kinnaman Road. So, it

3:05:04is the uh road that will access um this

3:05:07facility. You know, um you aren't able

3:05:11to vote on this and we understand, but

3:05:13you do have the ability to make some

3:05:15recommendations. I prepared for you a

3:05:17little folder that you have in front of

3:05:18you. And actually, if you want to cut to

3:05:20the chase, you can take that back page

3:05:22out of that folder and it'll show you

3:05:24some recommendations that we would like

3:05:26to see happen. It's not um declining the

3:05:29permit. It's not saying that uh they

3:05:31can't build their plant there, but what

3:05:33it does do is makes um some reasonable

3:05:36concessions to know that our community

3:05:38will be safe. It talks about water. It

3:05:41talks about the road. It talks about the

3:05:43bridge. It talks about air quality. It

3:05:45talks about all of those areas and

3:05:47reasonable testing that we would like to

3:05:49see happen. Beyond that, there's another

3:05:52aspect to it and and that is actually is

3:05:55this in the correct jurisdiction? Um I'm

3:05:59asking right now, can you verify or have

3:06:03one of your teams verify the

3:06:05jurisdiction of this actual property?

3:06:07And the reason I say that is it's a

3:06:08Clemens mailing address, but it doesn't

3:06:10prove that it is in the Clemens

3:06:14jurisdiction.

3:06:16Uh planning needs to do a written

3:06:18determination and record uh who actually

3:06:22has the correct zoning authority there.

3:06:24And and why that's important? Well, if

3:06:26it is the UDO of Winston Salem covered

3:06:30under section 5.29, 29. Um there are a

3:06:33lot of very specific regulations as far

3:06:36as setbacks. Uh we can look at some of

3:06:38those setbacks and know that there's a

3:06:40many a minimum of 50 um undisturbed feet

3:06:44around the entire perimeter. That's one.

3:06:46There's at least 500 ft from any type of

3:06:49heavy activity. and heavy activity. This

3:06:53provision expressly describes operations

3:06:55uh like movements of vehicles, storage

3:06:57of materials and other things. With a

3:06:595.9 acre site and with the required

3:07:03setbacks,

3:07:05it won't work. They don't have enough

3:07:07room. And so, we're asking for a sealed

3:07:11plan based on the correct jurisdiction,

3:07:15which may solve the whole problem.

3:07:16Because the reality is if you look at

3:07:18the property and you do the setbacks,

3:07:19the amount of land that they have to

3:07:21work with is very small and it won't be

3:07:24financially viable. I'm a general

3:07:26contractor. I um I was a realer um and I

3:07:29can understand, you know, the desire to

3:07:32develop and complete. But if you'll take

3:07:34a look at our recommendations, um

3:07:36there's a lot of things that you can do.

3:07:39There's a lot of recommendations that

3:07:40you can make without voting yay or nay

3:07:43on the actual project. So we ask that

3:07:45you consider them carefully. Thank you

3:07:47very much.

3:07:47>> Thank you.

3:07:50[applause]

3:07:56>> I believe this next speaker has left.

3:07:58Will Elely.

3:08:03Okay.

3:08:05Next speaker is Tom Sloon. Please come

3:08:08forward. State your name and address for

3:08:10the record.

3:08:12Okay.

3:08:14I believe Tom's left.

3:08:17>> Cindy Huffman,

3:08:20please come forward. State your name and

3:08:22address for the record.

3:08:27And my name is Cindy Huffman and I live

3:08:29at 210 Cog Hill Drive.

3:08:32I believe with all of my heart that

3:08:34everyone that is put in authority or

3:08:36leadership is put there by God because

3:08:38that's what his word says. And so I want

3:08:41to thank you for taking a role of

3:08:43authority and leadership because we

3:08:44understand your job is not easy and it's

3:08:47not glorious. Um a lot of the times we

3:08:50understand that you cannot vote but I

3:08:52want to ask you for two things. The

3:08:53first thing is I want you to pray about

3:08:55this situation. There are many of us

3:08:58that are already praying about it

3:08:59praying over the land. We wish no ill

3:09:01upon may need but the people that you

3:09:05represent are hurting. And so I want you

3:09:07to ask God to give you wisdom. That's

3:09:10the first thing I want to ask. And even

3:09:11though you don't vote, our God is big

3:09:14and very creative. And so I want you to

3:09:17ask him, how can I help the people that

3:09:19I represent that are hurting? And the

3:09:22second thing is I want to invite you to

3:09:23come to Cogill Drive where we live. I

3:09:25want to show you how close it is and I

3:09:27want to show you how every time I walk

3:09:30out my front door, I'm going to be

3:09:32breathing in toxins for the rest of my

3:09:34life. I've lost two parents to cancer

3:09:37and I would rather not go, you know, die

3:09:39from cancer myself. And so I'm asking

3:09:42you guys to pray and come see it and let

3:09:44us show you why we're hurting. Thank

3:09:46you.

3:09:46>> Thank you. [applause]

3:09:54>> The next speaker is Mike Besi.

3:09:57Please come forward. State your name and

3:09:58address for the record.

3:10:02[clears throat]

3:10:02>> My name is Mike Besi. I leave at 3331

3:10:06Healey Drive. I didn't know this was

3:10:08going on. Okay. Um I came here to

3:10:11address uh Commissioner Parker and

3:10:14welcome him into the uh

3:10:18the chair. Um we've we've met before. I

3:10:21don't know if you relate. Okay. Um I was

3:10:25the one that was um passionate about my

3:10:28speeches. I'm not sure you know. Um,

3:10:33I'm here to say that I represent you. I

3:10:37I I

3:10:39um

3:10:41I'm happy to be here for you like all

3:10:46the other um commissioners. They've

3:10:49heard my speech before and I support

3:10:51you.

3:10:53And there's a lot of people like me that

3:10:57support you. And I would like you to um

3:11:01make our um

3:11:05uh party proud.

3:11:08And I'm sure you will. And if you see

3:11:10anything that is not going right with

3:11:15our party, I want you to say it because

3:11:19there's there was something that I've

3:11:21seen that was not right for my party

3:11:27and I reported it to you, sir.

3:11:34Somebody said something about you that I

3:11:36didn't like my own party

3:11:39and I reported it to you. I felt that um

3:11:43that was the right thing to do.

3:11:46Right.

3:11:48Please um do as I do. Make our party

3:11:53proud.

3:11:55Thank you.

3:12:00The next speaker is Marcy West. Please

3:12:03come forward. State your name and

3:12:04address for the record.

3:12:09Thank you, commissioners, county manager

3:12:12Marcy West. Um, a couple of things that

3:12:14I wanted to bring up that are related to

3:12:15your actual agenda tonight. Uh, number

3:12:1829, Memorial Drive. Um, there I I I'm

3:12:22not a lawyer, so I couldn't tell, but uh

3:12:24it says that there's a trailer on the

3:12:25property. It doesn't say whether that

3:12:27trailer goes with the property or not

3:12:29goes with with the property. If it

3:12:30doesn't go with the property, please

3:12:32make sure that you're making them remove

3:12:33it before you settle that. Um, just

3:12:36because that doesn't make any sense that

3:12:38we would have to pay for it. Um, the

3:12:41other thing I wanted to talk about is

3:12:42the data center moratorum and there's a

3:12:45real need for that. You can see we've

3:12:47had so many people in here. I've never

3:12:49seen so many people in here between this

3:12:51and the last zoning thing about about

3:12:54having people in here and for hyperscale

3:12:57data centers. We do not have any

3:12:59definition on those. We have not done

3:13:02the analysis that we need to do and we

3:13:04need to have a moratorum which gives us

3:13:06that chance to look at the data to get

3:13:08the experts in. So do that now so you

3:13:11don't have another one come up that you

3:13:13have to then be trying to fight with the

3:13:15zoning. What we really need within our

3:13:17zoning ordinances are really good and

3:13:20correct definitions of what is in there.

3:13:23And when I was on a zoning board before,

3:13:26we spent months on our definitions to

3:13:28make sure we weren't losing things or

3:13:30missing things. So, it's a that's a very

3:13:33important thing. Um, I also wanted to

3:13:35say, um, on the on the court expenses on

3:13:39number 27 on your agenda, I'm just

3:13:43concerned that things kind of changed

3:13:45from when we heard them come in here and

3:13:46talk. Originally, there were going to be

3:13:48two two systems that were going to be

3:13:50moved to other courtrooms and they had

3:13:52to be moved. Now, it's that they're

3:13:54going to be upgraded. There's a new one

3:13:55that's being upgraded. We're going to

3:13:56have this um, you know, WebEx. We're

3:13:59buying furniture. Really, furniture was

3:14:01not mentioned before. There are no

3:14:03lockers being mentioned. We have Faraday

3:14:06pouches. Maybe that's better. Maybe it's

3:14:07not. I don't know. But it's a lot less

3:14:09money. Are we going to make sure that

3:14:11they get included before other things

3:14:13get bounced off? And the other thing is

3:14:16when I was here, I was concerned because

3:14:18the comment was there will be Faraday

3:14:20houses for certain people who qualify to

3:14:23get them. So what's going to happen for

3:14:26someone who comes with a with a cell

3:14:27phone and and doesn't have the

3:14:29qualifications on that? Um, I think we

3:14:32should know who's going to be monitoring

3:14:34those cell phone cases, who gets them,

3:14:37how you make sure that they don't walk

3:14:39out at the end because that's $10,000 of

3:14:41our money right there. And so I think

3:14:44that's just important to be talked

3:14:45about. Um, the budget already is over 33

3:14:50$330,000.

3:14:51They've already said it's going to be

3:14:52more than what's in there. So the

3:14:54likelihood it's going to be more than

3:14:56$350,000

3:14:58that was allocated. So, I'd like us to

3:15:00just be careful about what's being

3:15:01prioritized and what we're doing there.

3:15:04Um, and I just had a final question, uh,

3:15:06which is that as we had all of these

3:15:09issues with the school, one of the

3:15:11things that the commissioners wanted, if

3:15:13you can just give me one minute, you

3:15:15started before you did others.

3:15:16>> 30 seconds.

3:15:17>> Okay. Are you getting monthly financial

3:15:20reports from the Winston Salem for

3:15:22Scythe County Schools? Now, I don't see

3:15:24them in the packet, so I don't know

3:15:25about that. That was something that was

3:15:27asked for and requested about a year ago

3:15:30and I would suggest that you follow up

3:15:31and find out why we're not getting those

3:15:33because I think it's important that you

3:15:35were looking at that in addition to the

3:15:37school board. Thank you.

3:15:38>> Thank you.

3:15:43>> The last speaker is a gentleman in the

3:15:45black hat. I don't have your name. Okay.

3:15:48You can if you will state your name and

3:15:50address, please. Thank you.

3:15:58Hello, my name is Benjamin Gaither and

3:16:01my address is 281 Village Creek Circle

3:16:04Winston Salem.

3:16:07Do any of you know officer Edward Burn?

3:16:12He is the person who was memorialized in

3:16:15the grant that you use to install FA

3:16:17cameras in Axon Fus

3:16:21in the Foresight uh County Sheriff's

3:16:24Office's

3:16:26Realtime Intelligence Center.

3:16:29But who is he?

3:16:32In 1988, Officer Burn was shot while in

3:16:36a car

3:16:37um keeping an eye on a Ga uh immigrant

3:16:43who was worried about crime in their

3:16:45neighborhood.

3:16:47The Edward Burn Memorial Jag Grant was

3:16:52named after him because of this

3:16:54incident.

3:16:56He gave his life protecting and serving

3:16:58his community because he did his job and

3:17:02for no other reason.

3:17:05Uh, Robocop came out a year prior in

3:17:081987.

3:17:10Um,

3:17:12the entire premise of the movie was

3:17:14about human beings being involved in law

3:17:17enforcement.

3:17:21Police officers

3:17:23uh and first responders willingly uh

3:17:26accept the risks associated with their

3:17:29professions.

3:17:30They do so in a line of duty to protect

3:17:33the citizens from being harmed or taken

3:17:36advantage of.

3:17:38My grandfather was a police officer in

3:17:40Minnesota.

3:17:43I was talking to my mother today and she

3:17:46told me about how he would handle new

3:17:48technologies.

3:17:50He would see the potential good but

3:17:54consider the potential abuses that come

3:17:58with them.

3:18:00Uh he worked to educate other officers

3:18:03on how to use the technology effectively

3:18:06and ethically.

3:18:08He died in 2020.

3:18:12We keep asking what can we gain from

3:18:16these technologies,

3:18:18but do we ask what do we lose?

3:18:22Cameras won't stop bullets. And people

3:18:26looking at a computer screen all day

3:18:28won't be there when a crime happens.

3:18:31We keep predicting results instead of

3:18:34reacting to the situations.

3:18:37Cameras won't effectively make our

3:18:40streets safer. More officers will. A

3:18:43grant meant to help officers is being

3:18:47used to outmode them at the expense of

3:18:50our real safety.

3:18:52So I asked this board, what safeguard

3:18:55safeguards will this technology have and

3:18:58how will it help our officers?

3:19:01>> Sir, your time's expired. Thank you.

3:19:05Madame County Manager, please continue

3:19:07with the remainder of the agenda.

3:19:10>> Thank you, Madam Chair, and good

3:19:11evening, Commissioner, staff, and

3:19:12guests. The agenda items before you have

3:19:14been briefed and hopefully questions

3:19:15answered. Agenda item number seven is an

3:19:17amendment to the fiscical year 27 budget

3:19:19ordinance to appropriate adoption

3:19:21promotion program incentive funds to the

3:19:23foray county department of social

3:19:24services in the amount of $100,939

3:19:28to be used to enhance recruitment of

3:19:30adoptive families pre-adoption training

3:19:32postplacement support and facilitation

3:19:34of legal procedures.

3:19:36>> Is there a motion?

3:19:37>> So moved.

3:19:39>> Second.

3:19:40>> Second motion by Commissioner Parker.

3:19:43Second by Commissioner McDaniel. Is

3:19:45there discussion?

3:19:47All in favor say I.

3:19:49>> I.

3:19:49>> I.

3:19:50>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:19:52>> Agenda item number eight is an amendment

3:19:54to the fiscical year 27 budget ordinance

3:19:56to transfer funds from contingency to

3:19:58forythet community college in the amount

3:20:00of $40,000 to assist with funding salary

3:20:03increases for sworn law enforcement

3:20:05officers due to the state budget.

3:20:08>> Is there a motion?

3:20:09>> So moved.

3:20:10>> So moved by Commissioner Parker.

3:20:12>> Second. Second by Commissioner McDaniel.

3:20:14Is there discussion?

3:20:16>> All in favor say I.

3:20:18>> I.

3:20:19>> That's unanimous.

3:20:20>> Agenda item number nine is an amendment

3:20:22to the fiscical year 27 budget ordinance

3:20:23to correct the fire tax district special

3:20:26revenue fund and appropriate additional

3:20:28revenues and expenditures. We did have

3:20:30to make a an update to this item which

3:20:32is in front of you in order to make sure

3:20:34we provided revenues to Walkertown Fire

3:20:36Department. I'm going to ask our deputy

3:20:38county manager Kyle Haney to provide a

3:20:40brief update.

3:20:41>> Uh good evening commissioners. And so,

3:20:42um, this item made several changes or

3:20:45several modifications to the fire tax

3:20:47district budget, um, just to make some

3:20:49corrections. There was one that was

3:20:50omitted from that original submission.

3:20:52Um, and that is that the town of

3:20:54Walkertown provides um, they are not in

3:20:56the countywide overlay, but they do have

3:20:58a contract to pay us that amount from

3:21:00their residence. Um, that was not

3:21:02included in the FY27 budget. So, this

3:21:04does amend that. It increases the

3:21:06revenues and the expenditures by

3:21:07$860,461

3:21:10to accept those funds and appropriates

3:21:12those to the Walkertown Fire Department

3:21:14to provide fire suppression. So that is

3:21:16the modification that was made on here.

3:21:17>> There questions.

3:21:20>> Move approval of the amended motion.

3:21:22>> Move approval of the amended motion by

3:21:25Commissioner Bessie.

3:21:27>> Second by Commissioner McDaniel and Vice

3:21:30Chair uh Wilson. All in favor say I.

3:21:35>> I.

3:21:35>> Opposed.

3:21:38>> That's unanimous.

3:21:39>> Agenda item number 10 is an amendment to

3:21:40the county capital projects ordinance

3:21:42for a technical revision to the fiscical

3:21:44year 27 adopted budget ordinance.

3:21:46Section 9 of the fiscical year 27

3:21:48adopted budget ordinance listed all

3:21:49planned county capital revenues

3:21:51including $2.5 million in transfer from

3:21:54general fund cash project savings

3:21:56interest earnings. The intent of the

3:21:58funding remains the same. But at the

3:21:59time of budget adoption, part of these

3:22:01project savings and interest earnings

3:22:03were already appropriated into the

3:22:05capital projects ordinance by the

3:22:06finance department, meaning that the

3:22:08transfer from the general fund listed in

3:22:10the budget ordinance was duplicative. So

3:22:12this item is necessary to correct the

3:22:14duplication by reducing the county

3:22:15capital budget ordinance expenditures

3:22:17and revenues by $2.5 million, correcting

3:22:20the funding sources and project element

3:22:22allocations.

3:22:25>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:22:28Second.

3:22:29>> Second by Commissioner McDaniels. There

3:22:31discussion.

3:22:33All in favor say I.

3:22:35>> I.

3:22:35>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:22:38number 11 is an amendment to the

3:22:40community development grants projects

3:22:41ordinance in the amount of $165,000

3:22:44to appropriate funds from the North

3:22:45Carolina Housing Finance Agency to

3:22:48support the housing urgent re repair

3:22:50program.

3:22:52>> Move approval by Commissioner Bessie.

3:22:54>> Second.

3:22:54>> Second by Commissioner McDonald.

3:22:57McDaniel. Is there It's been a long day.

3:23:01[laughter] Um, is there discussion?

3:23:04[snorts] All in favor, please say I.

3:23:06>> I.

3:23:07>> Opposed? It's is unanimous.

3:23:09>> Agenda item number 12 is a resolution

3:23:11awarding and authorizing the execution

3:23:13of a purchase order with Craig's

3:23:14Firearms Supply, Inc. for the purchase

3:23:16of 309 new duty weapons and a purchase

3:23:19order to Dana Safety Supply, Inc. for

3:23:21the purchase of 309 weapon lights for

3:23:23the Forsight County Sheriff's Office.

3:23:25Correct. Firearms supply would be in the

3:23:27amount not to exceed $249,363

3:23:31and Dana safety supply would be in the

3:23:33amount not to exceed $45,19125.

3:23:37>> Move approval.

3:23:38>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:23:41Second by Vice Chair Wilson. Discussion.

3:23:46All in favor, please say I.

3:23:48>> I.

3:23:48>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:23:51number 13 is a resolution authorizing

3:23:53execution of an amendment to the

3:23:54agreement with the FMRT Group LLC to

3:23:57include A1C testing requirements for the

3:23:59Force County Sheriff's Office. This

3:24:01would be at a cost of $30 per test to

3:24:03ensure the sheriff's office remains

3:24:05compliant with the updated medical

3:24:06screening standards and all other terms

3:24:08and conditions of the existing agreement

3:24:10remains unchanged.

3:24:13There a motion

3:24:17>> move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:24:20>> Second.

3:24:21>> Second by Commissioner McDaniel. Uh is

3:24:24there discussion?

3:24:25>> Yes. I just wanted to say that um I was

3:24:28very grateful to the department for

3:24:31providing me with information about the

3:24:34um guidelines for this uh HDA1C testing

3:24:37and I'm still not convinced that it's

3:24:39appropriate, but I was assured it would

3:24:41have nothing to do with uh recruitment

3:24:44um or hiring such that there would be no

3:24:46ADA

3:24:48uh complications. Therefore, I would

3:24:50support the motion while still

3:24:52questioning its necessity, especially

3:24:54with other available testing that might

3:24:55be much cheaper and provide uh uh just

3:25:00as acceptable screening.

3:25:02>> Further discussion?

3:25:04All in favor say I.

3:25:06>> I.

3:25:07>> Opposed? That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:25:10number 14 is a resolution ratifying and

3:25:12authorizing execution of an interlocal

3:25:14agreement between Forsight County and

3:25:15the city of Winston Salem regarding the

3:25:17shared use of the North Carolina

3:25:19Governor's Highway Safety Program

3:25:20Traffic Safety Project Grant Award for

3:25:22the continuation of the Forcy County DWI

3:25:24joint task force. The grant provides a

3:25:26total of $47,297

3:25:29to the city of Winston Salem with

3:25:30$25,922

3:25:33representing Forcy County Share. The

3:25:35required local match is $141,890

3:25:38of which for Scythe County's portion is

3:25:39$77,765.

3:25:42The funding will support the continued

3:25:43operation of the DWI joint task force

3:25:46from October 1st, 2026 through September

3:25:4830th, 2027.

3:25:51>> Discussion.

3:25:53Is there a motion?

3:25:54>> Move to approve.

3:25:55>> Move to approve by Commissioner

3:25:57McDaniel.

3:25:59>> There a second.

3:26:01>> Second.

3:26:01>> Second by Commissioner Woodbury. All in

3:26:04favor say I.

3:26:05>> I.

3:26:06>> I.

3:26:06>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:26:08>> Agenda item number 15 is a resolution

3:26:10ratifying and authorizing execution of

3:26:12an interlocal agreement between Forsight

3:26:14County and the city of Winston Salem

3:26:15regarding the shared use of fiscal year

3:26:1725 Edward Burn Memorial justice

3:26:20assistance grant funds which is the JAG

3:26:22funds and associated amendment to the

3:26:23justice assistance grant projects

3:26:25ordinance to appropriate the 2025 JAG

3:26:28grant funds. The sheriff's office in

3:26:29Winston Salem PD have been allocated

3:26:31$249,47

3:26:34in fiscal year 25 for the JAG funds from

3:26:36the US Department of Justice Bureau of

3:26:38Justice Assistance. The grant funds will

3:26:40be shared equally between Fory County

3:26:42and the city of Winston Salem with each

3:26:44agency receiving $124,523.50.

3:26:49>> Move approval.

3:26:50>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:26:52Second.

3:26:53>> Second by Commissioner Bessie. All in

3:26:56favor say I. I.

3:26:57>> I. opposed. [clears throat]

3:27:00That's unanimous.

3:27:01>> Agenda item number 16 is a resolution

3:27:03authorizing execution of an agreement

3:27:05with Laboratory Corporation of America

3:27:07Holdings to provide offsite testing for

3:27:09the Department of Public Health. This is

3:27:10for testing that cannot be completed at

3:27:12the public health in-house lab in an

3:27:14amount not to exceed $71,000 for fiscal

3:27:16year 27.

3:27:19>> There a motion

3:27:20>> to move.

3:27:22Motion to approve by [snorts]

3:27:24uh Commissioner Limble, second by

3:27:26Commissioner Bessie. All in favor say I.

3:27:29>> I.

3:27:30>> Opposed? That's unanimous.

3:27:32>> Agenda item number 17 is a resolution

3:27:34authorizing the purchase of

3:27:35contraceptive devices and

3:27:37pharmaceuticals with Title X Family

3:27:38Planning Services funding under Medicaid

3:27:41340B pricing in an amount not to exceed

3:27:44$125,000.

3:27:47>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:27:50>> Second. Second by Commissioner McDaniel.

3:27:52All in favor say I.

3:27:55>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:27:57>> Agenda item number 18 is a resolution

3:27:59authorizing execution of a software

3:28:01service and subscription agreement

3:28:02between Forsythe County and Kerasoft

3:28:04Technology Corporation to provide Prisma

3:28:06Security Access for our IT department.

3:28:09This is a three-year contract in an

3:28:10amount not to exceed $188,368.74.

3:28:17>> Motion to approve.

3:28:20to approve.

3:28:21>> Move to approve by Commissioner

3:28:22McDaniel.

3:28:24>> Second by Commissioner Bessie. All in

3:28:27favor, please say I.

3:28:28>> I.

3:28:29>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:28:31>> Agenda item number 19 is a resolution

3:28:32ratifying and authorizing execution of

3:28:34an interlocal agreement between Forsight

3:28:36County and the city of Winston Salem for

3:28:38technical assistance and services to

3:28:40support transportation planning for the

3:28:41Winston Salem urbanized area. Our office

3:28:44of environmental assistance and

3:28:45protection performs technical air

3:28:47quality and emissions analysis for

3:28:49proposed transportation projects and

3:28:51actively participates on the

3:28:52transportation advisory committee and

3:28:54technical coordinating committee. We are

3:28:56reimbursed for actual staff hours spent

3:28:58plus 15% overhead.

3:29:01>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:29:03>> Second.

3:29:04>> Second by Vice Chair Wilson. All in

3:29:06favor say I.

3:29:08>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:29:11number 20 is a resolution authorizing

3:29:13execution of an agreement with OLC Inc.

3:29:16to provide cataloging and metadata

3:29:18subscriptions, Worldshare Inter Library

3:29:20Loan Services, and WebDue annual

3:29:22subscription for all for county library

3:29:24branches at a total amount not to exceed

3:29:26$176,420.85

3:29:29over a three-year contract period.

3:29:33>> Move approval.

3:29:34>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:29:38>> Second. Second by Commissioner Limble.

3:29:40All in favor, please say I.

3:29:43>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:29:45>> Agenda item number 21 is a resolution

3:29:47authorizing execution of an agreement

3:29:48with Mcnotton, a division of Broadart

3:29:50Company, to provide the public library

3:29:52with leased books. This is a three-year

3:29:54contract in a total amount not to exceed

3:29:56$727,320.

3:30:00>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:30:03>> Second.

3:30:03>> Second by Commissioner McDaniel. All in

3:30:06favor, please say I. I

3:30:08>> opposed. That's unanimous.

3:30:10>> Agenda item number 22 is a resolution

3:30:12acknowledging notice from Walkertown

3:30:14Fire Department Incorporated of its

3:30:16intent to purchase capital property

3:30:17valued at over $10,000 and approving

3:30:20this purchase pursuant to section 14 of

3:30:22the July 1st, 2026 agreement between

3:30:24Foray County and the Walkertown Fire

3:30:26Department Incorporated. Walkertown Fire

3:30:28Department has submitted a request to

3:30:29replace its 1990 Chevrolet brush truck,

3:30:32which is currently out of service. They

3:30:34are requesting to purchase a new truck

3:30:35at a total amount not to exceed $275,000

3:30:38which will be paid from the fire

3:30:39department savings.

3:30:41>> Move approval.

3:30:43>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:30:45>> Second.

3:30:46>> Second by Commissioner Lynville. All in

3:30:48favor, please say I.

3:30:49>> I.

3:30:50>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:30:53number 23 is a resolution authorizing

3:30:54execution of an agreement with Hartford

3:30:56Technology Rental Company LLC to provide

3:30:59laptop computers with e- polebook system

3:31:01for the force county board of elections.

3:31:03This will provide laptops and related

3:31:05equipment for all elections in fiscal

3:31:07year 27 in an amount not to exceed

3:31:09$52,281.

3:31:12>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:31:14>> Second.

3:31:15>> Second by Commissioner McDaniel. All in

3:31:18favor, please say I.

3:31:20>> Opposed? That's unanimous.

3:31:21>> Agenda item number 24 is a resolution

3:31:23authorizing execution of an agreement

3:31:25with Salem 1, Inc. to provide poll book

3:31:27printing and packaging services. This

3:31:29will also be used for all elections in

3:31:31fiscal year 27 in an amount not to

3:31:33exceed 62,74366.

3:31:38>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:31:40>> Second.

3:31:41>> Second by Commissioner McDaniel.

3:31:44>> All in favor, please say I.

3:31:46>> I.

3:31:46>> Opposed? That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:31:49number 25 is a resolution awarding a

3:31:51contract for the replacement of a

3:31:52chiller, cooling tower, and boilers

3:31:54serving the Department of Social

3:31:55Services and Public Health facilities.

3:31:57This will award a contract to Sylvester

3:31:59and Cochram LLC in an amount not to

3:32:01exceed $893,889

3:32:05and authorize the county manager to

3:32:06execute change orders in an amount not

3:32:08to exceed $40,000.

3:32:10>> Move approval.

3:32:11>> Second.

3:32:12>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker

3:32:14and second by Vice Chair Wilson. all in

3:32:17favor.

3:32:17>> I do have sorry a couple questions. Um

3:32:21so first I would like to um recognize

3:32:24that Sylvester and Cochram is actually

3:32:26located in Winston Salem. So that was

3:32:28very um attractive especially for me.

3:32:32The other question though, well I guess

3:32:35the question I have is did we have to

3:32:37solicit MWB for this project?

3:32:42I'm I'm going to let our county attorney

3:32:43because I I think you may have missed

3:32:45our the legislative update on this.

3:32:48>> The um the state budget got rid of MWBE

3:32:52[snorts] um consideration except for um

3:32:56sending out um RFQS for architect

3:33:02construction manager risk. So, we no

3:33:04longer are allowed to consider that and

3:33:06so we don't do the 10% goal anymore

3:33:09because those statutes were repealed.

3:33:15>> Um, I guess my question would be if is

3:33:19that based on like state funded

3:33:21projects? Does that pre preclude

3:33:24counties and cities from having a um

3:33:29goal of MWB? We we are no no one is no

3:33:33local government is allowed to have

3:33:35those goals anymore.

3:33:36>> Okay. I just wanted to be clear and have

3:33:39it put on record. Okay.

3:33:40>> All in favor say I.

3:33:42>> I.

3:33:43>> Opposed.

3:33:44>> That's unanimous.

3:33:46>> Agenda item number 26 is a resolution

3:33:48authorizing execution of an amendment to

3:33:50the agreement with Quality Refrigeration

3:33:51Concepts Inc. for on call HVAC

3:33:54maintenance services for various forite

3:33:56county locations. This is necessary for

3:33:58maintenance of repair of HVAC equipment

3:34:00at the public safety center and will

3:34:01also set aside funds for other on call

3:34:03HVAC services at other county locations

3:34:06and a total amount not to exceed

3:34:07$150,000.

3:34:09>> Move to approve.

3:34:11>> Move to approve by Commissioner Limbble.

3:34:13>> Second.

3:34:13>> Second by Commissioner Bessie.

3:34:16Discussion. All in favor say I.

3:34:19>> I.

3:34:21>> That's unanimous. Agenda item number 27

3:34:24is a resolution authorizing execution of

3:34:26a memorandum of agreement with the North

3:34:28Carolina Administrative Office of the

3:34:30Courts and approving procurement of

3:34:31various items for the Forite County

3:34:33Courthouse. This authorizes a not to

3:34:35exceed amount of $350,000 for the

3:34:37requested technology needs as well as

3:34:39the cell phone pouches.

3:34:44>> Move approval.

3:34:46>> Move approval by Vice Chair Wilson.

3:34:50I will second that. All in favor say I.

3:34:53>> I.

3:34:55>> I just wanted to just say that um

3:34:58>> I know that there was some conversation

3:34:59about the pouches and I received an

3:35:02extensive report relative to the pouches

3:35:05and the use that I was satisfied with

3:35:08because the um the judges they listened

3:35:12so I'm I'm okay with what they've

3:35:15decided.

3:35:16>> Thank you. All in favor say I. I.

3:35:19>> Opposed. That's unanimous. Agenda item

3:35:22number 28 is a resolution authorizing

3:35:23the grant and execution of a temporary

3:35:25construction easement to VNC Land

3:35:27Company LLC across a portion of Forcy

3:35:30County owned real property. They are

3:35:32requesting an additional 5100 square ft

3:35:34to complete additional land grading

3:35:36requirements and installation of

3:35:37landscaping associated with construction

3:35:39activities at 5580 Sturmer Park Circle

3:35:42and they will pay the county $10,000.

3:35:46>> I'll move approval. Um, I did ask a

3:35:48question about this during the briefing

3:35:51and was assured that their their

3:35:54photograph was illustrative of only of

3:35:56the journal area and that they were not

3:35:59in fact planning to take down those

3:36:01trees on the county's land.

3:36:05>> Correct.

3:36:07All in favor, please say I.

3:36:09>> Yes, we need a second.

3:36:10>> Pardon?

3:36:10>> Need a second. I think

3:36:11>> I thought you got a second.

3:36:13>> Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't hear one.

3:36:14>> Second. Second. Okay. Motion and a

3:36:17second. All in favor, please say I.

3:36:20>> I.

3:36:21>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:36:23>> Agenda item number 29 is a resolution

3:36:25authorizing the purchase of real

3:36:26property at 2830 Memorial Industrial

3:36:29School Road pursuant to a right of first

3:36:31refusal agreement. The property is

3:36:32adjacent to Horizon's Park. So, we are

3:36:34requesting to exercise our right of

3:36:36first refusal and would purchase the

3:36:38property for $41,000 and an additional

3:36:40not to exceed amount of $3,000 for

3:36:43closing cost.

3:36:45Move approval.

3:36:46>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:36:52>> I'll second.

3:36:52>> Second by Commissioner Bessie. All in

3:36:55favor, please say I.

3:36:57>> I.

3:36:57>> Opposed? That's unanimous.

3:36:59>> Agenda item number 30 is a resolution

3:37:01acknowledging notice from the Clemens

3:37:02Fire Department, Inc. of its intent to

3:37:04convey real property located in Forsythe

3:37:06County valued at over $10,000 and

3:37:08approving the conveyance pursuant to the

3:37:10section 14 of the July 1st, 2026

3:37:12agreement between Forcy County and the

3:37:14Clemens Fire Department, Inc. and a

3:37:16resolution acknowledging notice from the

3:37:17Clemens Fire Department, Inc. of its

3:37:19intent to acquire real property located

3:37:21in Forcy County valued at over $10,000

3:37:23and approving the sale pursuant to

3:37:25section 14 of the July 1st, 2026

3:37:27agreement between Forsight County and

3:37:28the Clemens Fire Department, Inc. This

3:37:30would allow Clemens Fire Department to

3:37:31dispose of capital property located at

3:37:334840 Hampton Road. That property will

3:37:36either revert to the original owner per

3:37:38their purchase agreement or if the owner

3:37:40releases them from the obligation,

3:37:41they'll sell it at fair market value.

3:37:43And secondly, this authorizes them to

3:37:44purchase property located at Zero

3:37:46Hampton Road in a purchase price of

3:37:48$320,000.

3:37:49>> Move approval.

3:37:50>> Move to approve by Commissioner Parker.

3:37:55>> Second.

3:37:55>> Second by Commissioner Bessie. All in

3:37:58favor, please say I.

3:38:00>> I.

3:38:00>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:38:02>> We can take agenda items 31 and 32

3:38:04together. 31 is the order of the Force

3:38:06County Board of Commissioners in

3:38:07accordance with general statutes 105-321

3:38:10and general statutes 153A-156

3:38:13and general statutes 168-215.2

3:38:16for the collection of 2026 taxes which

3:38:19would authorize the tax assessor

3:38:21collector to collect the taxes. and 32

3:38:22is the order for site county board of

3:38:24commissioners in accordance with general

3:38:25statutes 105-373

3:38:27and 105-321

3:38:30105-330A-156

3:38:34160A-215.2

3:38:36two for the collection of 2025 and prior

3:38:38years taxes. This will author authorize

3:38:40the collection of taxes.

3:38:43>> Move to approve.

3:38:44>> Move to approve by Commissioner Limble.

3:38:47>> Second.

3:38:47>> Second by Commissioner Parker. All in

3:38:50favor, please say I.

3:38:51>> I.

3:38:52>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:38:54>> And we can take 33 and 34 together. 33

3:38:56is a resolution approving refunds by the

3:38:58tax assessor collector in the amount of

3:38:59$983.68.

3:39:02and 34 is approving refunds by the tax

3:39:04assessor collector in the amount of

3:39:05$21,855.78.

3:39:10>> Move approval.

3:39:11>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:39:13>> Second.

3:39:13>> Second by Commissioner Limville. All in

3:39:16favor, please say I.

3:39:17>> I.

3:39:18>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:39:20>> Agenda items 35 and 36 are our reports.

3:39:2235 is the July contributionbased benefit

3:39:25cap report and 36 is the July financial

3:39:28report.

3:39:29>> Approval. Move approval by Commissioner

3:39:31Bessie.

3:39:32>> Second.

3:39:32>> Second by Commissioner Limbo. All in

3:39:35favor, please say. Excuse me.

3:39:37>> Just a comment. I wanted to say thank

3:39:38you for the expenditure report that

3:39:41we're getting now. So, thank you.

3:39:44>> Okay.

3:39:45>> All in favor, please say I.

3:39:47>> I.

3:39:48>> Opposed. That's unanimous.

3:39:51>> We have one one more agenda item. It's

3:39:53an added item based on a conversations

3:39:55from our last meeting. And it's a

3:39:57resolution authorizing the purchase of

3:39:58CO 19 vaccines using the MCAP infused

3:40:01group purchasing organization in an

3:40:03amount not to exceed $39,000 to be used

3:40:06for forite county residents who are

3:40:08uninsured or underinsured. Contingency

3:40:11funds will be used to cover the cost.

3:40:13>> Move approval.

3:40:15>> Move to approve by Commissioner Bessie.

3:40:17>> Second with the understanding that this

3:40:19is Madna is a manufacturer.

3:40:22second.

3:40:23>> Can I share some information? As the

3:40:26resolution is written, it does not say

3:40:28Madna specifically. That is because we

3:40:30do not yet know what the compilations of

3:40:32these vaccines are going to be. We would

3:40:35move forward with Madna assuming that

3:40:37all things are the same as last year.

3:40:39And the reason for that is because Madna

3:40:42can be given to anyone individuals aged

3:40:45six months and older. So, it's one

3:40:47vaccine for all ages. So that would be

3:40:49our preference, but we don't yet know

3:40:51that that is going to be the way that it

3:40:53is available.

3:40:54>> Understood. And I still support the

3:40:56motion as written.

3:40:59>> That was second by Vice Chair Wilson.

3:41:01All in favor, please say I. I.

3:41:04>> Opposed. That's unanimous. And could I

3:41:07please say quickly for the folks who are

3:41:10in the room, not many of you that aren't

3:41:13staffed, uh, and the folks who may be

3:41:16watching on TV, we it may look like that

3:41:19we went through this very hurdly and

3:41:21just approved everything, but we have a

3:41:24briefing on Mondays where the staff

3:41:26comes and presents the uh, the items and

3:41:29gives us lots of information. So that's

3:41:32why we approved everything quickly.

3:41:34Thank you all for your time here