2026-10-14 - Safety Committee

13:49I've had some confusion this morning with some issues, so some of our colleagues, one of those mornings, says I'm coming to that position.

14:04>> Yeah, we'll go to operations.

14:07>> Start with operations, to that.

14:10>> Yeah, we'll go with the, yeah, we'll go, I want to start with, I want to start with House of Corrections, we'll get that out of the way.

14:20>> House of Corrections, let's go.

14:28>> We do have some questions on House of Corrections, let's say the least.

14:33>> Madame Clerk, you want to ring us in?

14:42>> Public Safety Committee, please come to order.

14:52Madame Clerk, would you call the roll for those of us that are here, present.

15:01There are some of our colleagues that have been caught in some outside activities today as you're aware of the gun violence pledge today.

15:12So some of our colleagues, why they set it up the same day as the Safety Committee is beyond me.

15:17But some of our colleagues are at some of the schools, I would like to have been at some of the schools in my own neighborhood this morning.

15:23I could not be there.

15:25So, okay, we're going to go into operations and we're going to deal with the House of Corrections down to the viewing public.

15:33Those of you who pay attention to these meetings and also the budget.

15:38When we discuss the budget, we talk about operations to some extent as well.

15:43But after our dialogue among the members of the body and the council president,

15:49he wanted us to drill down on some of the operations of the various departments.

15:56So we're going to start that process in the Public Safety Committee.

16:00So we're going to be looking at EMS today.

16:04We're going to be looking at the House of Corrections and also the Inspector General's Office, correct?

16:11>> Yes, sir.

16:11>> Okay, so we're going to start and we have two pieces of legislation.

16:15We'll deal with those when some of our other colleagues arrive.

16:19So director, we're here to deal with the House of Corrections.

16:22Would you like to open up?

16:24>> Yes, sir, thank you and good morning.

16:26>> Can I identify your team for your help?

16:28>> Sure, I was going to do just that, thank you.

16:30Good morning to the committee, thank you for holding these operational hearings.

16:35With me at the table to my right is Michael Gelman, he's a fiscal manager.

16:41To my left is Assistant Director Jason Schachner and also to his left is Lisa Scavitti, she's the manager of corrections.

16:48Lisa will walk the committee through the brief PowerPoint presentation.

16:55Then we will open the floor for questions that the committee may have.

17:00>> Thank you.

17:01>> Lisa, the floor is yours and please talk into the microphone.

17:05>> Good morning.

17:06So as you know, eight years ago we entered into agreement with the Cuyahoga County.

17:11So at this point, they book process, house, the DNA, fingerprints, they do everything.

17:22All the post-booking medical is the responsibility of the county.

17:26So everything that we used to do at CPU or the house corrections is now done by the county.

17:32So in our eighth year, so as you know the per diem went up from $99 to 143 at the beginning of this year.

17:42But we also modified some of the processes with the Cleveland Division of Police.

17:47So with that, that saved us about 52,000 this year.

17:52So the costs have decreased even though the per diem has gone up.

17:58So the county is responsible for all the minimum state standards of the state of Ohio.

18:05So we monitor that, make sure everybody's moving through the process as they should.

18:09And then we're responsible for that per diem cost.

18:12So we make sure that we're paying for only those folks that are City of Cleveland prisoners.

18:20>> Go on.

18:23>> That's pretty much it.

18:23I mean, we only have two light items in the budget, so we're not a very big division.

18:28We have three people, one that handles the pre-booking medical.

18:33And then one that handles the per diem cost.

18:36>> It's small to the chair, it's a small division, but it's very mighty.

18:41Lisa and her team are doing a fabulous job of saving the city quite a bit of money.

18:47Again, our per diem has gone up from $99 to 143, so it went up a substantial amount.

18:56But again, overall, our overall cost has decreased.

19:00>> Okay, so at this point, and of course when we turned over the jail to the county, the city jail.

19:10Did we have to give them any equipment?

19:13Was there any transfer of any equipment?

19:15>> To the chair, no, there was no equipment.

19:17We had some residual stuff from the RNC, some mats and stuff like that that we transferred to them.

19:22But no, we didn't give them any equipment.

19:24>> Okay, so then looking at your budget, I had staff look at the budget.

19:28Is there anything out of the ordinary that we need to take a look at?

19:31>> There is nothing.

19:32We have two line items, like I said, the per diem and the pre-booking medical.

19:37>> Okay, so total of three employees?

19:41>> To the chair, yes, that's great.

19:42>> So some of the internal discussion we've had.

19:48We know that the jail is going to be moved out to Garfield Heights,

19:53which is again a decision, which I think is a terrible decision.

19:58And why, again, why the mayor supported that is beyond me.

20:05I can't for the life of me figure that one out, but nonetheless, the jail is going to Garfield Heights.

20:10And speaking to some of the judges in the Court of Common Pleas,

20:16they indicated that obviously the county as a result of this is going to have to operate a bus service for

20:24bringing prisoners back on every day for hearings.

20:30Not only in the Court of Common Pleas, but in Muny Court as well.

20:34Who's going to pay for that transportation?

20:37>> To the chair, once the county accepts the individual, we don't pay anything outside of the per diem.

20:44So there is no additional cost.

20:46If somebody has to move back and forth to court, that is the county's responsibility.

20:50>> But what about the Muny Court prisoners?

20:53>> It is still the county's responsibility.

20:54>> So we're not going to have to pay, on top of the 143, we're not going to have to pay for the transport of the prisoner?

21:00>> Through the chair, that's correct, that's correct.

21:04Our responsibility is the per diem, which is what we're paying for.

21:07So yeah, that's not going to be part of our responsibility, that will be solely the responsibility of the county.

21:13>> Okay, so what's the average number of prisoners we have per day?

21:21>> Currently, to the chair, our average daily population for the population that we pay for is about 43.

21:28>> 43, is that up or down?

21:30>> That's down.

21:32>> So that would be per day?

21:35>> To the chair, that's correct.

21:43>> Yes, sir, wait a minute, I'm just going to ask some other questions, 43 prisoners per day, okay.

21:48>> Mr. Chair, just to be clear, there is an additional population in the county jail, but

21:52sometimes they have parole violations, county holds, other things that supersede what we would pay for.

21:59So while they still go, they're still Cleveland prisoners per se, because they're still going to Cleveland Municipal Court, they have other cases, so we don't pay for those.

22:07>> Okay, so besides, so I want to get that clear again, besides, because I'm looking at your budget as well here.

22:14So besides 143 per prisoner, are there any other additional costs?

22:21>> To the chair, not to the county, the only thing that we pay is pre-booking medical.

22:26So anything, any medical necessity prior to booking at the county jail is our responsibility.

22:32>> And where would that be, would that be under, what would that be under in your budget?

22:37I'm looking here at it, would that be under your expenditures?

22:45>> Yeah, so there's going to be, so it's contractual.

22:49>> Okay, so I see total for the department, House of Corrections, it was $4,500,000, that's correct.

23:00>> To the chair, yes, that's correct.

23:01>> Okay, so that's what we're paying, the 143 is a part of that number.

23:09>> To the chair, yes, that is correct.

23:11>> Okay, okay, let me stop there.

23:13Questions of the committee?

23:15Yes, Councilman Jones, you had a question.

23:18>> Well, I'm looking at it, because I wanted to get the correspondence of employees, but I guess it's on two different presentations, not all on one line item, or is it?

23:35>> The chair, I'm sorry, Councilman Jones, what's the question?

23:38Councilman, what are you referring to, you guys?

23:40>> I guess I'm looking at this information that we have in the notepad.

23:46>> Yes. >> And it talks about the office supplies, it gives a breakdown.

23:50But I was looking for the number of employees, and I presume it's in another presentation.

23:54>> It's right behind it too, yes, in the PowerPoint presentation.

23:57We have a total of three full-time employees with the Division of Corrections.

24:07>> Other questions of the committee to, yes, Councilwoman Hudson.

24:13>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, just trying to figure out the per diem charges.

24:18So if we were to, through the chair, if we were to divide the budget total by 365 days by an average of 43 inmates per day,

24:30it comes to about $290 per inmate, does that math work, is that accurate?

24:39>> Through the chair to the Councilman, so not necessarily because some prisoners stay 30 days, where others stay a day and a half.

24:47So I mean, if we were looking at an average of what that population is, we'd have to look at that and then the cost per inmate.

24:53But again, it's their length of stay, it varies.

24:56>> Is there, and through the chair, is there an actual dollar amount per day per inmate that you can share with us?

25:03>> Through the chair to the Council, yes, it's $143, that is the cost per prisoner per day.

25:11>> Okay, and exclusive of medical?

25:18>> Through the chair, yes, that is correct, so pre-booking medical is our responsibility.

25:23So anything prior to booking at the county, the city is responsible for.

25:27Any post-medical, once they've accepted them in the county, that is part of the per diem, so we don't pay any additional costs.

25:34>> Okay, and then through the chair, I've heard some, I'm sure lots of us have heard

25:41different concerns about the conditions at the county jail, at the Justice Center.

25:47I've even heard from folks in the housing court, for example,

25:52that the city housing court facilities look very different than the county prosecutors floor.

25:58Issues with rats and insects and things like that.

26:02Does the city keep track of or keep an eye on the conditions of the city jail at the Justice Center?

26:09>> Through the chair to the Council, so we do look at their jail, their state jail inspections.

26:14We have no authority over their inspections, that's what the state does.

26:18So as long as the state is doing what they're responsible for, anything that's brought to our attention,

26:24we do address it with the county, but again, we have no direct oversight over the county's jail conditions.

26:31>> And then with the move to new location for the jail.

26:38How is that going to affect the city's corrections operations?

26:43>> Through the chairs to the council, so about six months prior to them opening, we are going to sit down and discuss operations.

26:49But as far as the per diem goes, that should not affect the per diem, but we have not discussed operations at this point.

26:56>> Through the chair to Councilwoman Hudson, really good question.

27:00Again, that's something we're working through.

27:02I think as far as the per diem, that doesn't change anything.

27:05For us, it's a matter of working out transportation, because obviously our officers will have to transport our prisoners outside the city and so forth.

27:15So that's how it may affect our operations.

27:18But as far as the per diem, that doesn't change, but we're working through those things.

27:23>> Okay, and through the chair to the council, it wouldn't affect the division of correction, because everything we do is remote.

27:28So we work here at City Hall, and we have access to their system remotely.

27:32So we log into all of the court systems, the county system remote.

27:35It doesn't affect our division.

27:37>> Okay, thank you.

27:38And then I have another question through the chair, and I'm not sure how much the city is involved in this.

27:45But it has been brought to my attention that sometimes there will be, and I believe it's the county that prisoners when they're released are dropped off in certain locations in my ward.

28:04Not just released to downtown or Lakeside Avenue where the Justice Center is.

28:12That they have been specifically dropped off in one particular neighborhood.

28:18And just recently, a couple weeks ago, there's a church in my ward that provides meals to people who are unhoused.

28:27And a group of 11 women showed up one night, they had just been released from jail.

28:38And they told the volunteer coordinator there that they were referred there, couldn't say who.

28:46Do you know if there's a practice at the county of transporting newly released prisoners away from downtown and into our neighborhoods?

28:57>> Through the chair to the councilwoman, I have not heard that.

29:00I know that there is a big push like to get them mental health, they give them a backpack with resources in it.

29:06They try to hook them up with medical insurance and things of that nature, but I have never heard of them dropping them off.

29:14>> Through the chair, councilwoman, and same thing, I have not heard that.

29:18I don't believe that's a practice that's taking place in the county.

29:23Generally, when the inmates are released, they're released from the justice center with the backpack that Lisa just talked about.

29:31And then they may be recommending, advising individuals to go to different locations for help.

29:37But I have not heard of the county dropping anyone off.

29:41>> Okay, thank you.

29:41And our newly released inmates provided with bus fare, bus pass, anything like that, or just let out under the street.

29:50>> Through the chair, they do try to assist them with resources.

29:53I don't know what all that consists of in the backpack, but they do try to, when they come in,

29:59they identify those folks so that way, on their way out, they give them what they need.

30:04>> Okay, thank you.

30:05That's all, Mr. Chair.

30:06>> Thank you.

30:07So just follow up on the council lady's line of questioning, which probably you can hear that.

30:14Is there a protocol as to when someone is released, what happens?

30:18>> Through the chair to councilman, that's not going to the chair.

30:20That's, again, that's what are protocols that the county may have.

30:24I'm not quite sure, but as Lisa just talked about, they do release the inmates with a backpack with resources.

30:30And I would think part of that is advising, especially those that may be homeless.

30:36Different shelters that's in the area, but I have not heard of.

30:40Or have I received any complaints in my office relative to the sheriff department of the county dropping individuals off in different areas in our community?

30:48Do we happen to know, to Lisa, you happen to know how many people that from Cleveland are being dropped off,

30:56are being released that are identified as homeless?

30:59Do we know that?

31:01>> Through the chair, I don't know that number.

31:04>> So they don't have to report to us, the city, as to where those individuals are being dropped off at?

31:10>> The chair, no.

31:11Again, we don't have any report that are dropping anyone off.

31:13We know that they're releasing individual, well, once they're done, they release them.

31:17We don't have any information about who they're releasing, if they're homeless.

31:21We don't have any of that information, nor are they required to give that information to us.

31:26>> Okay.

31:26>> And through the chair, just to elaborate on that a little bit, there are what they call pink slips.

31:30So there are folks that are released on their charges.

31:33And prior to them being released, they may have a crisis intervention.

31:36So they'll drop them off to a mental health facility.

31:40>> Yes, okay.

31:41Well, I think, obviously, we want to make sure that if someone is homeless, I'd like to know where they're taking them to or dropping them off to.

31:52And then the other question would be, and which I'll pose to you at this time to the director.

31:59We know that the courts have informed most including county prosecutor's office.

32:12They're not leaving the justice center, they're staying.

32:16And now we're hearing that there's going to be a cost associated with the renovation of the courts,

32:28both Common Pleas Muni Court and the clerk's office.

32:33We were alleged to believe that, again, the jail was leaving going to Garfield Heights, which we know that's going to be the case.

32:43But we're under the impression that there would be another facility constructed or renovated, whatever it may be.

32:54This is we're doing the police headquarters, the county would do that.

32:58Now we're hearing, and the number I'm hearing is $150 million to redo the courts.

33:08And what I'm trying to figure out from who from the administration, if you can, who from administrations engaged in those discussions?

33:16Do we know?

33:17>> Through the chair, and that's been done through obviously the mayor's administration.

33:21I know that Director King is part of those conversations, is leading those conversations on behalf of the city.

33:27>> Okay, because I spoke to the council president.

33:33No one has talked to the council about having to come up with the money to do our portion of the courts.

33:43The city's portion of the courts, Muni court and the clerk of court's office.

33:46No one's talked to us.

33:47And to figure that we keep hearing, in fact, the council president and I spoke on this on Monday.

33:52The number we keep hearing is $50 million, that the city's going to have to kick in 50 million to renovate the court's portion.

34:04And no one has talked to the council president, no one's talked to the council.

34:10Again, so this $1 billion jail that we all heard about the move to Garfield Heights.

34:20And now, is it going to be at least $1.150 billion, if not more?

34:27And then the issue with the courts, so I'm hoping, if anyone's watching this from the county,

34:35I'm hoping that someone talks to the council president because this is something.

34:40We're going into the budget and we cannot get, we can't get dumped on us at the 11th hour.

34:47We're going to request for tens of millions of dollars, because we have other priorities, council has other priorities.

34:55Because no one ever talked to us about this, in fact,

35:00we never had a real discussion about the jail moving to Garfield Heights.

35:05I'll tell you that right now, because had it been, it would have been a really interesting discussion at this table.

35:10I can assure you, because there was a lot of us opposed to the jail being moved to Garfield Heights, the city jail.

35:17It impacts our city, it affects businesses downtown.

35:22There's approximately, I'm told, over 400 employees that we're losing.

35:31That we're losing their income tax, their support for local businesses.

35:35In fact, I think it's much more than 400, might be closer to 700, I'm thinking about it.

35:41Yeah, so and then this whole issue with transport of the prisoners back and forth from Garfield Heights.

35:49So I don't know if they're going to run like an RTA bus service or what here.

35:53But there's a lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered as we go forward toward a budget session.

35:59So again, I would ask, go ahead, councilman, you got a question?

36:03>> For clarification, I haven't heard that at all.

36:05So what are we saying that, are we, Mr. Chairman, to the director, have you, if we're looking to pay 50 million into this?

36:13>> We don't know, we don't- >> I just wanted to ask you.

36:15>> Yeah, through the chair, I'm not quite sure about dollar amounts.

36:18And I can tell you through the chair, Councilman Jones, is that Director Keene is the lead for the division, for Director Keene.

36:26Martin Keene is the director that's leading the conversations with the county.

36:33Dollar amounts, I don't believe have been discussed.

36:36So we have no dollar amount to bring to City Council.

36:39Again, those discussions are taking place as we speak.

36:47>> Chairman, I just am concerned about keeping it here, and I'm not sure of the historical perspective because someone give me,

37:10Mr. Chairman, what happened while we couldn't keep it here in the first place.

37:14I comment that if they had to put it somewhere, I would be open to looking at it.

37:20Not to see something like this move from the city of Cleveland and its impact economically on our economy.

37:29I'm really concerned now that we're looking at what, did you say 50 million, I want to make sure I heard that right.

37:34>> Figure that we've, excuse me, figure that the council president and

37:39I have heard being kicked around to renovate the existing common police court,

37:45muni court, and the clerk of court's office, the number that's being, we're hearing,

37:50there's been no official presentation, it's 150 million.

37:54>> Wow.

37:55>> And that the city would have to pick up muni court portion and a clerk's office.

38:03Again, no one has spoken to the council president, because we spoke on this on Monday.

38:11And again, to figure that we were hearing again, which again, there's just rumors at this point

38:17that the council would be asked for 50 million to renovate our portion of the justice center.

38:27Which again, now is obviously going to stay there in light of all this other stuff.

38:36I don't know if, director, I don't even know if you can, can you comment, because I don't think you were involved.

38:40>> Your Chair, no, I can't comment on the, those are rumors, speculations about the city's portion of it again.

38:46There are negotiations taking place, that I can tell you, and again, Director Keene is directing those, or leading those conversations.

38:55>> Councilman, if not, other questions of the committee?

39:00If not, we are going to, Lisa, is there anything else you want to say?

39:05On your screen, the yellow portion, I think it shows up as yellow on this, I'm looking at hard copy.

39:12That is what has been spent, bottom view, 3.5 years spent to date in their operations.

39:36Again, we're looking at all that per section and what has been spent to date.

39:43And then the percentage to the right of that is, again, what percentage of that has been spent to date.

39:51>> And this is for three employees, Mr. Chairman?

39:53>> Yes, Director, or Lisa?

39:58>> Mr. Chair, there are three employees, but that also includes the pre-booking medical and the per diem cost.

40:03>> Yes, the pre-booking medical.

40:06>> Pre-booking medical and the per diem cost, the cost to house prisoners at the county jail.

40:11>> Okay, so it's a combined, it's not just all?

40:13>> Yeah.

40:14>> Mr. Chairman?

40:15>> Yes, Councilman.

40:17>> Are they planning to spend that money out there already start spending the dollars right now?

40:24>> Through the Chair, Councilman Conwell, the money, the $3 million, that's what's been spent so far.

40:29>> $3 million?

40:29>> Yes, sir.

40:30>> And so, you brought this to us to show us what you've done through the Chair, and you need to do a budget breakdown?

40:38>> Through the Chair, to Councilman Conwell, we're going to go through that.

40:42This is operation, just the operations of the various divisions under the Department of Public Safety.

40:48And we're going to get into the budget next year once we have the budget hearings.

40:52But we're here, we can answer questions relative to the budget you have.

40:57We're not, we don't have all the information, but if you have questions relative to the budget, we certainly can answer that relative to corrections.

41:06>> To you right now, this question, that's sorry right there, that's terrible.

41:16You know, you're telling me, 2026 budget, headcount, three full-time employment.

41:22I can read that on September 30, 26, three, current vacancy, zero.

41:28You're not telling us the positions, you're not telling me how much it costs per person.

41:33You're not adding up to the budget, you'll cost the labor, I don't understand that right there.

41:38I mean, why would you bring something like that, you're not narrating it through the Chair, to the Safety Director.

41:44>> Through the Chair, to the Councilman, we were asked to present on, as an organizational overview.

41:52We were not given guidelines of, or questions to answer.

41:57We just, this, if we're looking at the past two years ago, when we did organizational reviews.

42:05This was the practice, all that other information is provided during budget hearings.

42:11If the council members would have liked, or in the future, organizational reviews would like a breakdown of the budget.

42:19We're more than welcome to ask for that information, but we were asked to do an overview of the operations.

42:25>> Yeah, just the request was made of the, to the director and to the administration with just operational review.

42:32Because we're going to get into the budget, obviously, after the first of the year.

42:37But they, the council president wanted a presentation as to their operations.

42:42Tell us about the operations of each of these departments and sections.

42:46>> So Mr. Chairman, I'm like my colleague at the other end of the table here.

42:49If, you know, one of the things is, we're having a snapshot right now of what the operations look for, is that right, Mr. Chairman?

42:55>> Yes, sir.

42:57>> And so since we have a snapshot here, we're sure, because what we're doing is we're trying to forward, move forward.

43:02And then, but yet, we're here in the back.

43:04So unless we're going to have the same presentation during the budget hearings,

43:09you know, it puts us at a disadvantage of knowing, this just gives us a snapshot here.

43:15And then, it's more confusing to try to pull from here.

43:19And then who would be, Mr. Chairman, when it comes to the safety?

43:23Would it be then based upon, I think a couple of years ago, it just seemed backwards to me,

43:28that we would try to change these processes and then just spend all of this goo goo goop time.

43:34And then when we get to the budget hearings, these numbers, these figures have changed.

43:38There's other pieces that may be needed to be added into a department.

43:43And it's just really confusing, Mr. Chairman, that we would do something like this.

43:50Now, unless we're going to come back during the budget time, and then really lay the presentations down like we did in years past.

43:56>> Of course, to my honorable colleague and to all my colleagues, the charter is very clear.

44:02When the budget comes to us, we have to have it by February 1st.

44:07And then it's the mayor's estimate.

44:10Once it comes to us, then it's the people's budget.

44:13So then we're going to look at that time.

44:15We're going to look at specifically the operation, the numbers for the operation at the department, how many employees they have.

44:23The concerns that we might have as pertains to not having enough employees or wanting more employees.

44:29That's the time that we will address that.

44:33>> And will they also, Mr. Chairman, talk about, because here's where it comes in.

44:38The various, not this department may not have it, but the various different programs,

44:43how successful those programs have been, a snapshot of where they're going to be in the year, the reason why we're approving the budget.

44:51So it's always been, each director comes to the table and talk about the production of their departments and

44:58how successful they were within that last calendar year, and they give to the council the information that's needed.

45:03One, and then two, they talk about and project where they're going to be in this year if they receive these funds.

45:11So getting this snapshot here is cool with me by me if we're going to do double work.

45:16But what I would say, Mr. Chairman, this double work.

45:19So Mr. Chairman, the issue would be then, because it's more appropriate at that time than it would be here.

45:26And so I would say, Mr. Chairman, because I've had this conversation with the director,

45:33there was a time when I sat here at this table during the budget hearings and all we listened to was the CFO talk about these programs.

45:41And I thought that even though he did his best, he's no longer with us, he's in another company somewhere.

45:48The issue is that the director themselves should be at the table talking about their department,

45:55how their department is run, as well as talk about the various different programs and the grants and all those kinds of things at that time.

46:04So if we're sitting here right now doing double work and we're going to have to come back and

46:09ask this director or some CFO who really doesn't know his own department, or have someone else try to represent.

46:15>> That is true.

46:17>> If they're aging when they're dealing with accounting, that doesn't work for you, Mr. Chairman, sitting here at the table.

46:24That's the reason why we have budget time, budget hearings.

46:27So if this is some made up stuff to kind of rush us through the budget, we don't need to be rushing through the budget.

46:35We need to be taking our time, because the people sent us down here to take our time to go through this,

46:40vet through this, and then make sure that we understand what the directors and the commissioners are saying.

46:45We understand the goals of the administration, and then we can make an informed decision if we are going to support and

46:51then negotiate what we want and what we want to do within that calendar year.

46:56So that's my two cent.

46:57>> Okay.

46:58>> And I think that if we're going to do it that way, Mr. Chairman, I'm cool with how you're doing it this way.

47:02And we're going to come back and do it the same way when the budget time is, but I don't want to be cheated.

47:07>> Listen up.

47:08>> I don't want to be cheated, Mr. Chairman, sitting here at the table and then having to list to somebody else who's not the head of their own department,

47:14to talk about the department, so I want to see those people who are running these departments talking about,

47:20we're talking about over $600 million, so we ought to see these directors and we want to hear what they've done.

47:26>> Well, you're looking at a director right now at the table.

47:29>> I know we are, but I'm talking about doing budget hearing when these numbers are going to change.

47:34And he may have expectations, he may bring on a fourth person.

47:37>> Now, listen up, everybody.

47:41When we get into the budget hearings, we're going to be looking at staffing levels.

47:45We're going to be looking at the actual cost, as we're looking at now, of each department and division.

47:52This was our opportunity to look at the operations of the department or the division.

47:59And then if there's any specific request that you might have for

48:03each section to make those requests now, staff is here to hear those requests.

48:10So when we go into the budget hearings, we're not doing twice the work.

48:15We want to get a picture snapshot of each department, each division, each section.

48:20So if you have specific questions, the time to remake those requests or

48:24now give them an opportunity to prepare what they need to prepare going into the budget hearings.

48:30The concern of the council president was we get into budget hearings and

48:34then we get into operations of each department, each division.

48:37>> As has always been.

48:39>> Well, but we're trying, he's trying, where we can get advanced information.

48:44We don't have to do it at the 11th hour, we're getting advanced now.

48:48So if there's questions that you have now, requests that you have now, make those officially to the staff.

48:56And they can start to put that data together for us.

48:58So when we get into the budget hearings, we're going to be ahead of the curve rather than behind it.

49:04Because you all know, we make requests at the budget hearings.

49:07>> You don't get it.

49:08>> Then we get it months after the fact, because they're trying to document everything they can for us, put stuff together.

49:16Sometimes it's difficult for them to do that.

49:19So here's your opportunity.

49:20Every member of this committee and the other committees that are going to do operations to make your request now.

49:26We've got three people assigned to this section, House of Corrections.

49:30You have their budget in front of them, in front of each of you have their budget.

49:35Are there any specific requests that any member has pertaining to the House of Corrections?

49:41>> Mr. Chairman, I just guess in the area of process.

49:44So I hear exactly what you're saying, so I don't have no unreadiness with what you just laid down.

49:49My issue is both ways, on both sides here.

49:53Is that if this director of safety is sitting here,

49:58I don't want to see the CFO sitting here trying to explain his department when we start going through the budget process like we did that one year.

50:06Because when I started asking questions, they didn't have the in-depth responses.

50:11So I guess my suggestion, Mr. Chairman, if this is just for the purpose of gathering information so we'll be more prepared during the budget process, that's fine.

50:19>> Okay. >> I guess the issue is, is I don't want to have the safety director I'm looking at right now.

50:25I want to see what his programs and progresses have been up to that snapshot.

50:30And same kind of presentations of years in have been made at the budget hearings.

50:36I want that to be the same, and if this is just a preview to getting to the budget hearings, I don't have no problems on unreadiness of it.

50:43>> Thank you. >> But I just don't want to see, Mr. Chairman, somebody else who's not running the department, not giving us any information.

50:50And I've said here, and I've asked for information at this table, and I still haven't received it.

50:56So I get what you're saying, so I'm on the same page with you, and I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.

51:00>> Do you have any, but so does anyone have any specific requests through staff for the House of Corrections?

51:07>> I'll answer them and start.

51:08>> Put me down.

51:09>> Okay. >> Thank you, Chair.

51:11One of the things that I definitely, when I look at the House, the Division of Correction,

51:17one of the key focuses that I ask, and I was just having discussion and thinking last night and previous weeks regarding the Division of Correction.

51:26From our standpoint, from a proactive standpoint, or not even that, even from the Division of Correction,

51:32do we have any type of program set up with mentorship, guidance, or anything?

51:38Do we have to help out with individuals who possibly be at risk within the Division of Correction?

51:44How do we really make sure we are reducing recidivism as a key factor in the work that we're doing,

51:50and the amount of dollars that we are putting towards Division of Correction?

51:53Do we have any data or any information on that?

51:56>> Director, who would care to take a jab at that one?

51:58>> Through the Chair, the Councilman Starks, thanks for the question.

52:01The Division of Corrections, we have three full-time employees in there.

52:05Lisa Scavitti is the manager.

52:07They deal strictly with the pain of the per diem for prisoners that's housed by the county, and also the pre-medical expenses.

52:19That's the extent of our involvement with the county and the pain for

52:26the inmates that are taking to the county.

52:30>> And then with those inmates or those residents that are housed there,

52:34when you talk about the medical component, who is the medical provider for all the services that's needed?

52:41>> Through the Chair, Councilman Starks, the prisoners are taken,

52:45and the prisoners are taken, inmates, are taken to, they're seeing three booking.

52:50This is for, they're actually housed at the county.

52:52They're taken to Metro, and then the bills are sent to the city of Cleveland.

52:59And Lisa Scavitti can answer that more specifically.

53:01>> Introduce yourself again, because some members came in after the fact, introduce yourself again.

53:06>> Good afternoon, I'm Lisa Scavitti, the manager of the Division of Corrections, I'm the liaison between the city and the county.

53:11>> Thank you.

53:12>> So all of the medical, through the chairs of the councilmen, all of the medical that we pay is all pre-booking medical.

53:18So when an arrestee goes to the hospital prior to, so it's always the nearest hospital, so not necessarily always Metro.

53:24Sometimes it could be Cleveland Clinic, sometimes it's UH, so we deal with those providers.

53:30We have an outside vendor to validate all that billing.

53:35So anything that's pre-booking medical is our responsibility.

53:38>> All right, and then from pre-booking to actual booking, that when a person is housed at our correctional facility,

53:46all the medical support that they need is done through one provider, or is it multiple providers that give medicine assessments?

53:53Who is that provider?

53:54>> Through the chairs of the councilmen, the county contracts with Metro Health.

53:59So they do have Metro Health inside the jail, and then they take them to Metro Hospital.

54:03But everything at that point is done by the county.

54:05We're not responsible for any additional medical.

54:08>> All right, and then from that standpoint, from Division of Correction, how does Division of Correction all work with juvenile?

54:15Is there any type of partnership, no collaborations or anything?

54:19>> Through the chair, there is no, we don't deal with juveniles.

54:24Through the chair to the councilmen, just as an overview of what the Department of Corrections does within the city of Cleveland.

54:30Since we have contracted the housing of inmates to the county, really, they're more of an auditing service.

54:38So what our Lisa Scafidi and the rest of the staff do is they look at the list, they look at who's in the jail.

54:47They determine, okay, are they charging us properly for each inmate?

54:51For instance, we're only responsible for when we bring them in and they're facing the misdemeanor charges, or prior to them being bound over to the felony court.

55:00Once they get to the court of common pleas, they're the county's responsibility.

55:04Or if they have a parole hold, or they have some other holds due to felony charges, they're the county's responsibility.

55:09Also the pre-booking medical, we have to make sure that we're getting charged the right amount from the medical facilities.

55:16Working with Medicaid and all the sorts of things that were being reversed properly, that they're being charged properly.

55:22So it's really an accounting issue.

55:23All the things that have to do with working with juveniles or for release or re-entry programs, those are outside of public safety.

55:33There are other division departments within the city that assist with re-entry.

55:37Also that is primarily a county, has a lot of resources and they work with re-entry because they have the jails, they have the common pleas courts.

55:46But our responsibility within the city is to make sure we're being charged the right amount and we're not paying more than we're responsible for.

55:53And that is our corrections responsibility here within the city.

55:58>> Thank you, so thank you so much.

56:01And then just from just getting that clarification, obviously one of the things definitely I would say to the chair to the team.

56:08When we talk about safety, I mentioned juvenile just for the sake of what we're dealing with.

56:15Sometimes you can look at the fact that we know that historically

56:21it has been viewed that most of these prisons are built on test scores of young people in third or

56:28fourth grades to be able to determine what the need may need be in the future.

56:33So from a proactive standpoint, I'm trying to figure out how do we do some different alignments and

56:38be proactive on our approach to be able to see what the guidance.

56:41I think one of the biggest challenges that we often don't discuss is the fact that we have lack of parents from fatherhoods,

56:50mentors in our community helping with our young people.

56:53I was raised by a single mother, she did the best she can, but she did something that was very instrumental in my upbringing.

57:00She put me around different organizations to provide that void in which my father was incarcerated.

57:06I wish he provided me with mentors, programs, outreach, support to make sure that I did not go down that path of potentially ending up in prison.

57:17So what I'm trying to think from a city standpoint and a collaboration standpoint,

57:22it's sad to me that I cannot pinpoint or name right now who is the top youth service agency in Cleveland.

57:32We have different organizations doing some type of work, but there used to be a point where you say,

57:37this organization is doing X, Y, and Z with our babies.

57:41This is what actual mentorship looks like, and this is how it happened.

57:44We cannot police our way out of this.

57:47We have to be more proactive on utilizing the funds that we do have available and make some tough decisions.

57:53Because we need to make sure we have people who are not just grabbing our young people and locking them up.

57:58We need to make sure we got a mentor program where they actually are working.

58:02And that makes me think, do we even do anything with our pal anymore in the city of Cleveland?

58:07Are they still active in the neighborhoods?

58:10So many different things.

58:11So when I'm thinking about the vision of correction, I know we could go on about this for a while.

58:15And I do not want to belabor and have all the time of this.

58:19So offline, I definitely would like to work with the safety department to see exactly what we are doing.

58:27And how can we be proactive to get more groups in our neighborhoods that's doing the work outside of what we see on TV to be able to help our community.

58:37>> Thank you.

58:38>> Comments on that?

58:41>> Yeah, through Chair, Councilman Starwood, we'd love to work with you.

58:44We have Tiffany Scruggs who's doing a great job and through PIO, her office and

58:49all the things that they're doing with juveniles giving them opportunities and so forth.

58:53So the city has a system in place to help the youth in our community.

58:58Again, I would love to sit down with you, along with Tiffany Scruggs, and talk through some of those things that we're doing currently.

59:05>> Yeah, I'm of the opinion until we have a real school system in our neighborhoods,

59:10especially on the east side, that can really hook and

59:15help many of our students who need help.

59:21And have skills and have, there's nothing to hook them, there's nothing to engage them.

59:27I see it every day, it concerns me greatly.

59:30And we've got to have a system, because if you're not, I'm on a Board of Ginn Academy.

59:35And Ted tells me all the time, I'm a disciple of Ted Ginn, that you've got to hook the fish of these young men.

59:41You've got to get them in something, you've got to wrap your arms around them, you need more teachers, you need more wraparound services.

59:49And I think that's what you're talking about, we need to provide those opportunities.

59:53And unless we do that, then all we do is build jails in Ohio and see gun violence.

1:00:00And it's not happening as of this point. Any other questions on the House of Corrections?

1:00:11Excuse me, Councilman. I apologize. Go ahead.

1:00:16You know what, Mr. Chairman? We were discussing this earlier with Councilmember Joe Jones.

1:00:29What I don't like with the budget, and I never like it, because you guys have, and I always talk about strategic plans,

1:00:42the safety director and assistant safety director, they know which direction they're going into ahead of time.

1:00:50They're not just coming here. It's not a free-for-all.

1:00:52And what I don't understand, when you do a budget, they correlate it, because he gets to the chair, he gets strategy reviews.

1:01:00So sometime the budget is not etched in stone, he might go in a different direction than he might have to switch and go into,

1:01:09saying that when they give budgets to us, they should have a strategic plan correlated to the budget.

1:01:16And it's telling us about the correction house, what they plan to do, what direction they think they need to go into,

1:01:22what shifts or changes, because the budget isn't just etched in stone.

1:01:27And I don't know why the safety director, I don't know why you guys don't do that.

1:01:30You just give us a budget, we look at it, we look at the equipment, we look at the supplies,

1:01:37we look at your staffing, you talk about people, and you talk about money.

1:01:41Those are four things for a budget that you narrate to us, but you don't give us a strategic plan

1:01:47or a strategy review that is correlated to the budget, and I don't understand that at all.

1:01:52You keep it for yourself. And one of the reasons you do, you show us this finance budget because you have another budget in there.

1:01:58It's your accounting budgets, how you do fund transfers, and how you do your other operations,

1:02:05your real operations in the budget, which is correlated to that financial budget.

1:02:10And I want to wait for the safety director to respond to that, as well as the former councilman.

1:02:19He can respond to that as well, through the chair.

1:02:23Whoever can respond.

1:02:26Through the chair, Councilman Conville, thanks for the question.

1:02:29Before we put our budget together, we have our meeting as a team with our fiscal manager as well as the finance department.

1:02:37And through that, we talk about the needs, our strategic plan, or what we need for our respective divisions,

1:02:46whether it's in this particular case we're talking about division corrections.

1:02:50We know what the needs are based on our per diem.

1:02:57Again, we're talking about the division of corrections.

1:03:01We know what the per diem are.

1:03:04We have three full-time employees that are responsible to make sure that the city of Cleveland is paying the appropriate amount for the per diem.

1:03:16So they're doing a responsibility.

1:03:18Our strategic plan overall in the division of corrections is to make sure that the city of Cleveland is paying the proper amount for the inmates that are being housed in the corrections department for the county.

1:03:36So that's our strategic plan to make sure we're not paying more than what we're supposed to for the inmates in the county.

1:03:44>> Yeah, so why don't you do the chair, not nitpicking, because I have to go back and I talk with you and ask you questions.

1:03:52Every time you talk about a department, Mr. Chair, this you have, and I ask Doctor, well I don't want to ask another question, just come up with our chair.

1:04:03It correlates with the budget, but we don't bring that or a piece of paper to show it to council members how it correlates with the budget.

1:04:11It will help us to understand it better, and even some footnotes in there when you change it.

1:04:17I'm not quite sure I understand your question, Councilman.

1:04:20>> Well, you could bring your strategic plan that you just narrated to us because it correlates with the budget that you just delivered to us.

1:04:28That's what I'm saying.

1:04:29They correlate.

1:04:30If you can't do anything without that budget.

1:04:31>> Yeah, and to the chair, to Councilman Conwell, we haven't actually presented the budget.

1:04:38I know that I believe you guys have some information about what we've spent so far, but we actually actually provided our full budget.

1:04:46I just wanted to present, as requested by the safety chair,

1:04:50to present an overview of our operations for, at least today, for public safety,

1:04:56Inspector General, the Division of Correction, as well as EMS, and that's what we're prepared for.

1:05:02>> But you know, because you meet, how often you guys meet through the chair?

1:05:06Is it quarterly for your reviews, or do you meet semiannually?

1:05:11But I know you meet-

1:05:12>> Through the chair to the-

1:05:13>> In the ninth quarter, I mean in the third quarter.

1:05:15>> Through the chair to Councilman, I meet weekly with the heads of the various divisions.

1:05:20We meet weekly and we talk about various things.

1:05:23The needs of the divisions, some of it relates to budget, not always.

1:05:28Some of the things operationally that they may need and we talk through to make sure, again,

1:05:33they have what they need, the resources, the equipment to be successful in providing the services to our citizens.

1:05:39I have our fiscal manager here that we talk through.

1:05:42And then we get together relative to the budget itself as it gets closer.

1:05:46We start talking about the budget and make sure that we have our information together

1:05:51so we can be ready for the presentation that we have around the first of the year for the budget.

1:05:57>> Right, so is this young man your fiscal manager?

1:06:02>> Yes, he is.

1:06:03That's Michael Gellman.

1:06:04He's the fiscal manager for the Department of Public Safety.

1:06:06>> You know what I'm talking about because when you do your fiscal and you hand it off to us,

1:06:16you also look at your accounting.

1:06:18What's going on?

1:06:19Because the accounting and the finance are two different things.

1:06:22They're related.

1:06:24And you know what I'm talking about because you constantly look at the accounting when you sit back.

1:06:29That's the other side of it.

1:06:30And you talk with the safety director, through the chair to Michael, your last name?

1:06:36>> Matt Gellman.

1:06:37>> Matt Gellman, you know what I'm talking about with that.

1:06:42And they don't bring it to the table, never ever.

1:06:44>> Through the director, through the chair, to the councilman, we don't have two budgets.

1:06:48We only have the budget that is passed by council.

1:06:51I think what you're referring to when we make adjustments is if we have an operational need

1:06:56that we didn't anticipate during the year, then we do need to accommodate that.

1:07:00Then we have to take that out of something that you did budget us for.

1:07:04So we have -- yeah, it's going to be a flexible budget in that manner.

1:07:10But if it's something that's much larger than what we can handle, then we would have to go out to other resources to get that.

1:07:18>> What I'm talking about through the chair, you have -- you talk with us through the chair, finance.

1:07:24Then that department has an accounting budget, debits and credits.

1:07:28You have that when you do your T accounts and those kind of things.

1:07:32And then you let that drop into the finance budget.

1:07:35You have that.

1:07:36You're looking at cost of labor.

1:07:39You're looking at the training dollars that you're using.

1:07:41You're looking at equipment that you're purchasing.

1:07:44You're budgeting that inside of its own budget.

1:07:48And I forgot what you called that to the chair, to the finance director.

1:07:53>> Whoever can answer that.

1:07:54>> Through the director, through the chair, to the councilman, the accounting budget that you're referring to

1:07:58directly correlates with the budget that is passed by council.

1:08:02So it's not a separate budget.

1:08:05It's a separate budget, but you have that as well.

1:08:09And I'm not.

1:08:11>> Through the -- because I read it before.

1:08:13Sometime I stop by.

1:08:15The director is discussing sharing too much.

1:08:17I look at the budgets.

1:08:19Everything I don't look at at the table.

1:08:21I enjoy reading budgets.

1:08:23I actually enjoy reading that stuff.

1:08:25>> Through the director, through the chair, to the councilman, every expenditure that we make flows through our accounting system.

1:08:31>> Right.

1:08:32>> Those are directly correlated with the budget that is provided to us, that's passed by council.

1:08:40And that is entered into our accounting system.

1:08:42We cannot exceed that budget by appropriation lines, but not by overall.

1:08:48We have to stay within that budget.

1:08:50>> So what do you call -- I'm trying to think of what you call that.

1:08:54You do your purchasing and procurement because you have to order equipment and supplies.

1:09:00Pay people, payroll, but we give you -- we say okay with the finance.

1:09:06And you switch over to the accounting on that.

1:09:09What do you call that?

1:09:10And it's in every department.

1:09:11And you can do fund transfers if I'm going nine yards.

1:09:14And you do it on a daily -- you do it on a daily -- you do it every day.

1:09:22Because you got the finance here that we say okay.

1:09:26And then you have that.

1:09:27I can bring in the book and I can show it to you.

1:09:30I'll go down and talk with you about it.

1:09:32>> I don't know much as you do about it through the chair, but I've seen it and I've read it.

1:09:37It might not even have a copy of it at home.

1:09:39>> Through the chair, if we can just get inquiry and we can respond accordingly to what the council is referring to.

1:09:46>> Mr. Chairman, I can bring to safety director what I'm talking about because I have it at the house and then I'll bring it to you.

1:09:54And then if you could bring it to council, I'll bring it to you tomorrow or later today because I have to step out of my house and I'll grab it.

1:10:01>> I think one of the things we all have to realize is sometimes I think we've all forgotten it over the years.

1:10:07I know at times that the charter is clear.

1:10:11Council cannot hire.

1:10:12We cannot fire.

1:10:13We cannot deploy.

1:10:14We cannot administer.

1:10:15We don't set the budget.

1:10:18The budget is set by the administration.

1:10:20It's the mayor's estimate.

1:10:22But when it comes to us, as I said earlier, when we opened up, then it becomes the people's budget.

1:10:28So then we can decide what dollar amount we allocate for each department, each division.

1:10:36Obviously, we have never engaged in telling a department you're going to have X number of people.

1:10:45That's not our role.

1:10:47That's not our role.

1:10:49We look at the budget and on this amount, because I have a follow-up question for the administration.

1:10:55I want to make sure you're through with your line of questioning.

1:10:57>> You know, I'll bring, Mr. Chairman, the book.

1:11:02And then I'll talk with the safety director all the time.

1:11:05We can talk here.

1:11:06And I leave.

1:11:07He welcomes me to the office.

1:11:10You do need that strategic plan and should be there with the budget to correlate with it.

1:11:14I just don't look at the budget every day like you guys do, because you're the expert opinion.

1:11:18However, I understand it and I enjoy reading it.

1:11:23>> Okay.

1:11:24Thank you, Councilman.

1:11:25Just one follow-up before we move on to the other sections.

1:11:29You've only spent, according to the documents that's been provided to us by our staff, you've only spent 20% of your book.

1:11:36Is it the county has not billed?

1:11:39Does that bill this?

1:11:41>> To the chair.

1:11:46So we are paid up through August 31st for the per diem.

1:11:51But we still have some medical expenses that we're in the process of.

1:11:55>> Okay.

1:11:56So within the budget that we allocated, you're fine.

1:11:58>> To the chair, yes, that's correct.

1:12:01>> Okay.

1:12:02And the three employees that you have, that's a fit.

1:12:06>> Yes.

1:12:09Obviously, we go into the budget hearings.

1:12:11We're going to make sure that we have enough people assigned in the budget that we allocated was sufficient.

1:12:17That's what we're hearing at the table.

1:12:19>> To the chair, yes, it is sufficient.

1:12:20>> Yes.

1:12:21To the chair, that's absolutely the three full-time employees are sufficient for operations.

1:12:25>> Is there any other questions before we move on?

1:12:27House of Corrections.

1:12:28Yes, sir.

1:12:31>> When the Vice Chair was discussing youth programs, there's a program that you guys could get dollars from the county.

1:12:41Inside, outside, dads.

1:12:44And to work with those fathers.

1:12:46We know this.

1:12:47When a father, even when they're incarcerated, and they keep the relationship with their children on the outside, when they get out, they don't want to go back in because they have that relationship with their children.

1:12:59And it's called Inside, Outside, Dads.

1:13:02And you can get a curriculum from that, from the National Fatherhood Initiative.

1:13:08Thank you.

1:13:11>> Thank you.

1:13:12Any member who has additional questions on the House of Corrections that they would like to submit.

1:13:18Please submit those to our staff or UBACUN.

1:13:21So we have everything well in advance going into the budget here.

1:13:27So, okay, we are moving on to the Public Safety Inspector General.

1:13:32Public Safety Inspector General, please come to the table and identify yourself, sir.

1:13:38>> Speak into the mic.

1:13:46>> Speak right into the mic.

1:13:49>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

1:13:50My name's James Morrison.

1:13:51I'm Acting Inspector General.

1:13:52>> Say your name.

1:13:53>> Speak right here.

1:13:54>> Sorry.

1:13:55James Morrison.

1:13:56>> James Morrison?

1:13:57>> Yes, sir.

1:13:58>> Okay.

1:14:00Okay.

1:14:02>> That's pretty cool.

1:14:03>> Go ahead, sir.

1:14:10Who's going to make it?

1:14:11>> Yes.

1:14:12Good morning, Chair and Council members.

1:14:15Right now we're going to go into the Public Safety Inspector General at the table with me.

1:14:21To my left is Assistant Director Shachner.

1:14:24Where and also to his left is the Acting Inspector General James Morrison.

1:14:32Mr. Morrison will lead the presentation and then have any questions for you.

1:14:39Right now it's the Office of One.

1:14:41We are currently in the process of hiring a Public Safety Inspector General.

1:14:49Once we get that finalized, we'll make the notification to Council and others.

1:14:55But presently we have one employee and then we'll go into the presentation then have questions.

1:15:01Answer any questions?

1:15:02>> Well, let's -- we're going to start it this way.

1:15:05Explain to the viewing public what the Inspector General does.

1:15:10Because this was set up as a result of --

1:15:14>> The consent decree.

1:15:15>> Right, the consent decree, part of police oversight, so the viewing public.

1:15:20Tell us what the Inspector General does.

1:15:22>> Thank you, Chair.

1:15:23That's what the Inspector General is going to do right now.

1:15:25That's part of his presentation to get into the overview of what the office does and the reason why it came into existence,

1:15:33like you just talked about, was through the consent decree that was entered into with settlement agreement,

1:15:38which was entered into the city of Cleveland and the Department of Justice.

1:15:44>> Mr. Morrison, the floor is yours, sir.

1:15:47>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1:15:48The Inspector General is, as was discussed, is a product of the settlement agreement from the consent decree.

1:15:56Specifically, it's required to review policies of the Cleveland Division of Police.

1:16:01That's the first bullet point in the presentation.

1:16:05Both policies and practices for compliance with standards.

1:16:09It's obligated to perform policy compliance reviews, performance audits, and other inquiries.

1:16:17The office is obligated to conduct investigation and inquiries regarding trends

1:16:24and making recommendations for reform concerning division policies, procedures, practices, and training.

1:16:31We are obligated to analyze those investigations conducted by the Office of Professional Standards,

1:16:40which is the Community Police Review Board, and we analyze disciplinary trends within the Division of Police.

1:16:47You're aware to the director, to the acting, what would be your official title?

1:17:00>> Acting.

1:17:01>> Inspector General, Acting Inspector General.

1:17:03>> Yes.

1:17:04>> You're aware that as it pertains to the DOJ and to the office was clearly cited in the past,

1:17:18that one of the areas that we were deficient is that the police inspector general position was unfilled for a long period of time.

1:17:28So what assurances do we have that we're going to get this as an official person and you're going to fill the remaining staff?

1:17:37Because that's been one of the areas that they pointed to, one of our deficiencies, the feds.

1:17:42>> Yeah, through the chair, Councilman, we're in the process now of filling the head role, Inspector General.

1:17:49Again, we're close.

1:17:50We have a candidate that has been identified, have gone through the vetting process.

1:17:55We're in the process now of doing the background checks and so forth, and once that's done,

1:18:00and we're formally through that process and the person's onboarded, then we'll make the notifications.

1:18:07We're in that process now.

1:18:09We are really close.

1:18:10And once that person comes onboard, then we'll have a staff of two, and then we'll move from there.

1:18:17>> Got it.

1:18:19Continue, and then we'll open up for questions.

1:18:20>> Yeah, gotcha.

1:18:23>> Go ahead, sir.

1:18:24>> So, Mr. Chairman, the core initiatives in the 2026 progress in an acting capacity,

1:18:32the office doesn't need to overreach pending mayoral appointment of a permanent IG.

1:18:37But having said that, progress has been made with some fundamental foundational elements,

1:18:42like standard operating procedure, prioritization framework.

1:18:47An office of two only has so many hours available to work on different projects.

1:18:52So a prioritization framework had to be established.

1:18:56Likewise, office of two is not panoptic.

1:19:00It can't see everything, which means we've created a format for a working group of stakeholders

1:19:07to identify priorities.

1:19:11We've closed out some existing inquiries and made progress there.

1:19:17We've made commentary on general police order 10607 relating to this one,

1:19:24which is another consent decree paragraph stipulation.

1:19:32The independent monitoring, the feds, as you say, the independent monitoring team

1:19:38has a specific assessment for the IG in addition to division police and other elements of city government.

1:19:46In that case, the seven paragraphs that we were responsible for,

1:19:50we made significant improvements on their scoring rubric.

1:19:56So we're moving forward as to full compliance in that regard,

1:20:01and we've reset and advanced professional relationships with the stakeholders.

1:20:06I believe that's all I have, sir.

1:20:13Again, in an active capacity, the 2027 initiatives are to onboard a permanent inspector general,

1:20:23continuing with the advancement of the work plan for priorities, initiate review of CDP data analysis,

1:20:33which is a specific section within the division of police, and monitor ongoing inquiries.

1:20:39And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer as best I can.

1:20:42Okay. Who do you report to?

1:20:46To the chair, Director Drummond.

1:20:49I said it again?

1:20:50To the Director of Public Safety.

1:20:52So you do not report to the feds at all?

1:20:54No, sir.

1:20:56Why don't you just apply no documentation to that?

1:20:58Provide documentation.

1:21:02Everything we do is public.

1:21:04Okay, okay.

1:21:06Director, do you have any comments?

1:21:09No, we do provide documents for when you're in choir,

1:21:13but that's stated by the IG.

1:21:16Everything that they do is public.

1:21:18So you expect to wind up with how many staff people come budget time?

1:21:25We're approved for three positions.

1:21:29Like you said, we're awaiting mayoral appointment of the permanent.

1:21:32Yeah, so we should -- sorry, James.

1:21:34We should -- when we come to you, it's going to be -- we have three.

1:21:37We're approved for three.

1:21:39We will have two during the budget process.

1:21:41And then once the inspector general is on board,

1:21:45I'm sure she'll work in earnest to get the third person hired.

1:21:49Why does it take so long to fill these positions?

1:21:56Through the chair, the councilmen, and the councilmembers,

1:21:58we want to make sure that we do our due diligence to get the right person in place.

1:22:04And that takes time.

1:22:06We have an interview process, a vetting process.

1:22:08And we did have an inspector general in place,

1:22:11and that particular person decided to move on to move on.

1:22:15So which started a process, obviously, to try to hire another inspector general.

1:22:22Again, we're very close going through that process now.

1:22:25So we want to make sure we take our time, do our due diligence,

1:22:29to make sure we have the right person in place to lead this important office.

1:22:32So, Mr. Morrison, how long have you been on the job?

1:22:36Since December 2025.

1:22:41In the Department of Public Safety?

1:22:42December 2025.

1:22:44Okay. And prior to that, what did you do?

1:22:50For 20 years, I was with the Department of Criminal Justice Training in Kentucky,

1:22:54Statewide Law Enforcement Academy.

1:22:57Okay, thank you.

1:22:59I have down Star Jones's life gone well.

1:23:03Okay.

1:23:05If I can real quick, I have some questions.

1:23:09And we were remiss to it.

1:23:11The CPC is involved in the selection of the IG,

1:23:15just to make sure that you understand they're part of the process

1:23:18to vet the incoming IG and make recommendations to the mayor as well.

1:23:27Councilman Star.

1:23:28And I'm going to, again, ask everybody to be indulgent for 10 minutes,

1:23:32and then if you have to go back on, we'll put you back on.

1:23:35Councilman Star.

1:23:37No.

1:23:38I just want to get some clarifications.

1:23:40So, the Inspector General, Public Safety Inspector General,

1:23:45what is your role and responsibility within this current role?

1:23:49What is the role of your division or your department?

1:23:54The Office of the Inspector General is a requirement

1:24:01of a consent decree settlement agreement,

1:24:03and it's obligated to review policies for compliance

1:24:08and best practices for the Division of Police.

1:24:11Sir.

1:24:13So, within your role and responsibility to hold the Division of Police

1:24:20accountable and expect different incidents that may occur,

1:24:24how are you reporting to the safety director?

1:24:27Like, that's a conflict of interest.

1:24:33Before I ask that question, I'm telling you,

1:24:35that is a conflict of interest.

1:24:37You're going to report to the safety director,

1:24:40and if his name is viewed or come up with a case file that hit your desk,

1:24:45how are you going to inspect your supervisor and inspect something to get done?

1:24:48Through the chair.

1:24:49I just want to make sure I get that clear.

1:24:54Like, you're the Office of Public Safety Inspector General,

1:24:59whose job is to do any inspection, investigative work,

1:25:04look into any file that may come across your desk,

1:25:07and if the director has to come across your desk,

1:25:10how can you inspect your boss?

1:25:12You know, how does that work in a line of public safety?

1:25:16And also possibly to you,

1:25:19what other office is set up that does this type of thing in the city,

1:25:25or in the country, rather?

1:25:27Through the chair, Councillor Star, thanks for the question.

1:25:30The Office of Inspector General,

1:25:32as part of the consent decree that was set up,

1:25:35the responsibility of that office and the individuals in the office

1:25:40is to, again, analyze trends and policies for the division of police.

1:25:45The structure was set up based on the consent decree.

1:25:48That's how the structure was set up.

1:25:50The Inspector General, again, based on the structure,

1:25:54was set up through the consent decree, which is a federal government.

1:25:59There's a reporting mechanism.

1:26:01The Inspector General reports to me,

1:26:03but all the reports that are made or come from the Office

1:26:07of the Inspector General's public record,

1:26:10all my responsibility is to make sure that reports are done.

1:26:14The analyst, when they analyze reports and so forth

1:26:20and give their reports, that information is public.

1:26:23It is going to go out regardless of what the outcomes may be.

1:26:27The Office of the Inspector General,

1:26:29they do not investigate the department of my office or myself.

1:26:34Their responsibility is near charged with analyzing trends,

1:26:38policies, and bringing out reports relative to the division of police.

1:26:43And through the Chair to the Councilman,

1:26:45if you look at the federal system of Inspector General's offices

1:26:48and Inspector Generals that are part of the Department of Education

1:26:51or Labor or Homeland Security,

1:26:54they all report to the director of that department.

1:27:00That's how Inspector Generals are set up.

1:27:02There were some protections in there,

1:27:06but in terms of their job protection,

1:27:11but those were more of norms, as we've seen the past year.

1:27:16But these Inspector Generals historically have been reporting

1:27:21to the director of the organization in which they're embedded.

1:27:25And thank you.

1:27:26From that standpoint, is the Office of the Inspector General set up

1:27:30because of the consent decree currently?

1:27:32Through the Chair to the Councilman Star, that's correct.

1:27:34Now, we know that the administration,

1:27:36as well as some members on Council,

1:27:40wants the consent decree to be gone, right?

1:27:44Now, if the consent decree leaves tomorrow,

1:27:47does the Office Inspector General still exist?

1:27:50Through the Chair, through the Chair to the Councilman Star, yes.

1:27:55And then we will still have it set up where they will work through

1:27:58and report under the Safety Director, right?

1:28:00Through the Chair.

1:28:01Based on the Charter Amendment.

1:28:02Through the Chair.

1:28:04Through the Chair.

1:28:05Based on the consent decree, yes.

1:28:07So from a standpoint, who gives the Office of Inspector General

1:28:15the authority or assignments on what to investigate?

1:28:18Through the Chair, Councilman.

1:28:20The Inspector General has the autonomy to initiate investigations.

1:28:25They can inspect the General in this particular time, Mr. Morrison.

1:28:30He has the authority and the autonomy to conduct or start an investigation

1:28:36or analyze trends or policies.

1:28:39He can do that without coming through me.

1:28:44He sees something that's brought to his attention

1:28:47or he sees something that he wants to take a look at and evaluate.

1:28:50He can do that.

1:28:51So what happened there was some issues dealing with you and your leadership.

1:28:54How can he inspect?

1:28:57Say, for instance, this Council has some real concerns

1:29:00of what's going on in the Division of Safety, in the Department of Safety.

1:29:04And we need someone to investigate and inspect.

1:29:08The Council has got to ask you to inspect yourself.

1:29:10How can we get the Inspector General to have an unbiased opinion

1:29:13and to do their job without having a fear of retaliation

1:29:17or any whistleblower protection?

1:29:19What do we have in line to ensure that they can do their job?

1:29:22Through the Chair.

1:29:23The current process that's set in place within Inspector General

1:29:29is not to investigate the Director of Public Safety.

1:29:35The requirements are very specific in the consent decree

1:29:42of the requirements of the Inspector General.

1:29:45If there is some kind of complaint or actions

1:29:49that need to be investigated relative to my office,

1:29:52I believe there are other mechanisms in place to do that.

1:29:55The Inspector General, again, is in place to investigate,

1:29:59to analyze trends and policies within the Division of Police.

1:30:04But there are other mechanisms in place to investigate other offices

1:30:09outside of the Division of Police.

1:30:11And more specifically, if it's for the Department of Public Safety

1:30:14and me in general, there are other mechanisms in place for that.

1:30:17Thank you.

1:30:18And I've got you. I know.

1:30:20I'm going to let them get in.

1:30:21I want to make sure I don't run over my time

1:30:23because this is a very important topic.

1:30:25And when you're talking about the Office, Inspector General Office, rather,

1:30:30I believe this needs to be independent.

1:30:33This Department needs to be independent,

1:30:36and they need to be able to do what Baltimore does,

1:30:39Chicago does, L.A. does,

1:30:41to be able to give them autonomy to do everything

1:30:44that they need to do in their job.

1:30:46I don't think we have effectively utilized this office

1:30:49to do everything that is needed due to the fact that they report to the--

1:30:53I mean, report to the Safety Director.

1:30:55If I report to somebody, it's hard for me to go in depth

1:30:58on what I need to do or decide on how to investigate.

1:31:01And if he also reports to you, and you report to the Mayor,

1:31:05so if there's some valuable concerns

1:31:08that is brought to our attention on Council,

1:31:10how can we actually get him or the Office of Inspector General

1:31:15to investigate things that is a top priority from citizens?

1:31:19Cities? Cleveland?

1:31:21And also, I will ask from the standpoint,

1:31:23I know I receive, and some of my colleagues receive,

1:31:26a lot of information from people from anonymous emails

1:31:29about concerns that they have in different departments.

1:31:31I know we've received information about some concerns

1:31:35in building a housing department.

1:31:37So how can we get the Inspector--

1:31:39the Office of Inspector General to investigate anything

1:31:43or look into anything?

1:31:44How does that work?

1:31:45Mr. Morrison.

1:31:46And what I mean by that is, if we're asking him to do it,

1:31:50but his boss is saying he ain't got to do it,

1:31:52then how is it actually investigated?

1:31:55Through the Chair, I know that the Inspector General

1:31:58has some comments, so I'm going to let him answer in a second,

1:32:01but you're bringing up some good points.

1:32:05I do not direct the--

1:32:09I do have oversight of the Inspector General in the Office.

1:32:13However, the Inspector General has the autonomy

1:32:17and the independence to conduct investigations,

1:32:21regardless of my position.

1:32:24And his reports, analysis of the Department of--

1:32:30I'm sorry, Division of Police is what it is.

1:32:34If it's good, it's good.

1:32:35If it's negative, then it's negative,

1:32:37and all that information will go out regardless.

1:32:40So one conversation I had with the prior Inspector General,

1:32:44one of the first conversations that I had with her

1:32:47was to make sure that she understood

1:32:49that she had the autonomy and the independence

1:32:52to conduct the investigations into the Division of Police,

1:32:56analyze, and then whatever the outcome is, it is.

1:33:00It's going to go out publicly.

1:33:01I made that very clear.

1:33:02Same conversation I had with Mr. Morrison.

1:33:05Again, whatever investigation, whatever audits,

1:33:10whatever it leads to, it is what it is, so to speak,

1:33:14to use that term, and that information will go out regardless.

1:33:18So through the standpoint of that,

1:33:20this Inspector General is mainly for just public safety, correct?

1:33:24For specifically the Division of Police.

1:33:28But we do not have-- put just the Division of Police,

1:33:32nothing else.

1:33:33Through the Chair of the Councilman, that's correct.

1:33:35And that was written because of the consent decree, or no?

1:33:39It was a consent decree, or was it--

1:33:42This was set up through the settlement agreement.

1:33:44Through the settlement agreement, okay.

1:33:46So therefore-- I'm sorry, Chair.

1:33:47That's all right.

1:33:48Give me two seconds.

1:33:49So we do not have just a general office inspector

1:33:55for all departments.

1:33:57Through the Chair, the Councilman Snider is correct.

1:33:59And other cities have that set up.

1:34:03We try to believe so.

1:34:04Baltimore, Chicago, LA, they don't just have one department.

1:34:08So yeah, I'm going to work on this.

1:34:09I definitely believe we need to lean towards an independent office.

1:34:13I hear you, Director.

1:34:16I hear you, Assistant Director, as well.

1:34:18But there's no way a human being possibly can do their oversight

1:34:24of investigation into just one department,

1:34:27say, for instance, the police department,

1:34:29and conduct an investigation.

1:34:31So I would say I would ask for my request

1:34:33that I would put out in our wrap-up chair is,

1:34:36I would like to put a request out since 2022.

1:34:40How many investigations have the Office--

1:34:46the Public Safety Inspector General Office--

1:34:50have conducted investigations?

1:34:52And also, with each investigation since 2022,

1:34:56what was the outcomes of those investigations?

1:35:00To see if there are a high value of investigations,

1:35:06what prompted the Office of Inspector General

1:35:09to actually investigate those?

1:35:11And then also, I would like to look into the Charter, obviously,

1:35:14amendment to allow this office to be under Public Safety.

1:35:17And then also, I will put a note,

1:35:20the staff that I'm going to work with,

1:35:22to figure out how do we establish our own Office of Independence,

1:35:27Office of General Inspector,

1:35:29that is not just tiered to one department,

1:35:32but to all departments and making it independent,

1:35:34where the mayor don't have oversight,

1:35:36the safety director don't have oversight,

1:35:38the council don't have oversight.

1:35:39This person, this office should be able to do the work of the good

1:35:43on will of the people without having to worry about retaliation,

1:35:47because it happens.

1:35:48If it's something that we needed to investigate it

1:35:50and we bring it to the office,

1:35:51the office should have the full autonomy

1:35:53without having to worry about any retaliation or anything like that,

1:35:57I yield chair.

1:35:58>> Councilman Jones.

1:35:59>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1:36:01My colleague done a great job on some of his questioning

1:36:05about this police inspector general.

1:36:10If we would turn, Mr. Chairman, to the last page of the budget,

1:36:18it says total department police inspector general.

1:36:23Can you tell me what that is, that allocation?

1:36:27>> Do you ever can answer that question?

1:36:30>> Through the chair, which page are you referring to?

1:36:32>> The last item.

1:36:37>> We don't have what you have in front of you.

1:36:41We have our PowerPoint presentation.

1:36:42I'm not quite sure what you're --

1:36:44>> Financials.

1:36:45>> We have the financials.

1:36:46>> They were put together by council, staff council.

1:36:49>> So, you know, let me just say this.

1:36:51If that's the case, then the issue is, Mr. Chairman, then --

1:36:55now, this is what's important, Mr. Chairman.

1:36:57We've got our people who put the stuff together,

1:37:01and we should have them bringing their finances together, too.

1:37:04So it makes no sense, Mr. Chairman,

1:37:06and it goes right back to our presentation.

1:37:08I thought that this piece that we have in front of us

1:37:12was the piece that would have come from the administration.

1:37:16And though we may have our piece,

1:37:18I think, Mr. Chairman, the administration

1:37:20needs to have their budget breakdown,

1:37:22and they need to tell us all of what they have,

1:37:26just like we've got it itemized here.

1:37:28They should bring their itemization down

1:37:30and bring it to us just like if we're going to talk about asking questions.

1:37:34>> Councilman, this is from --

1:37:36this is right out of the administration,

1:37:37right out of the Department of Finance.

1:37:39>> Okay.

1:37:40>> Our staff --

1:37:41>> But they don't have it, though.

1:37:43See what I'm saying?

1:37:44So if I'm going to ask questions about this particular document,

1:37:48and we produced a document,

1:37:50and they're not giving us the financials,

1:37:52it don't make no sense for no overview,

1:37:54because what we've got --

1:37:56they may give something totally different from what we would prepare.

1:37:59So, Mr. Chairman, I would suggest

1:38:03that if we're going to do a real serious overview,

1:38:06then that they do this serious overview

1:38:08by bringing their numbers and bringing them to the table.

1:38:11How many employees, how much it costs,

1:38:13what's the contractual, the entire breakdown,

1:38:16because their numbers may be different from our numbers, Mr. Chairman,

1:38:21and then if they make mistakes on the numbers,

1:38:24and so we make mistakes on the numbers,

1:38:26and the numbers are not right, and their numbers are not right,

1:38:28it makes no sense to bring and ask these questions,

1:38:30and even going to the full look at this during budget hearings.

1:38:37So I would suggest, Mr. Chairman,

1:38:39that if we're going to do an office overview

1:38:42or a review of the different departments,

1:38:46they bring the whole shebang,

1:38:48and then that way I get my full capacity

1:38:51to understand their department.

1:38:53Mr. Chairman, how many employees,

1:38:56what their contractuals are,

1:38:58what the estimated contractuals would be.

1:39:01Mr. Chairman, it just, you know, makes more sense that way.

1:39:04Okay, Councilman.

1:39:07So can we do that, Mr. Chairman?

1:39:08Well, Mr. Chairman --

1:39:09Moving forward.

1:39:10I mean, right now, we are where we are,

1:39:13so I get that right, Mr. Chairman.

1:39:15We're looking at operations.

1:39:16So if we're going to look at operations,

1:39:18they need to bring the operational whole proposition to the table,

1:39:21and we should, if we have our own cheat sheet on the side

1:39:25to challenge it, that's one thing,

1:39:27but they don't even have the paperwork we got,

1:39:29and so they need to bring their own paperwork,

1:39:32and so, Mr. Chairman, I would suggest moving forward

1:39:35that each department has a criteria

1:39:38that if we're setting up to have these operational reviews,

1:39:41there should be a full, thorough piece given to the administration

1:39:47just like it would be if we're going to say

1:39:49we're going to shortchange having our budget meetings and next year.

1:39:55If we're going to shortchange it or short-circuit it,

1:39:57then the proposition of overview should be full-throttled here,

1:40:01and so, Mr. Chairman, if the Director has the sheet in front of him,

1:40:06if he can tell me what it is,

1:40:08and if he agrees with it.

1:40:11Through you, Chair, I'm going to respond,

1:40:14but I want to make sure it's clear,

1:40:17because I don't want there to be a perception to the viewing public

1:40:22and others that the Division of--

1:40:25that Department of Public Safety did not have documentation

1:40:29and was not prepared for this.

1:40:32We were notified last week--

1:40:35last week, end of the week last week, or midweek,

1:40:40that we were going to have operational hearings.

1:40:44So, at that particular time,

1:40:47I notified my staff to be prepared for the operational hearings.

1:40:53So, we prepared for that,

1:40:55which basically is the overview of the various divisions.

1:40:58In this particular case is the Public Safety Inspector General,

1:41:02Office of Division Corrections,

1:41:04as well as EMS, who's coming up next.

1:41:07So, that's what we came prepared for.

1:41:09We did not bring information for the budget,

1:41:12because we knew that we were going to have budget hearings

1:41:15in the early part of 2027.

1:41:18So, we prepared for the overview of the operations

1:41:24of the various divisions that you're going to hear today.

1:41:27So, again, I just don't want that perception out there.

1:41:29I do have the document that you just mentioned,

1:41:33Councilman Jones, that was just handed to me by the Safety Chair.

1:41:37And if you can, please forgive me, can you repeat the question

1:41:40so I can answer it?

1:41:42Again, I want to just say what I repeated earlier.

1:41:45Between now and February 1st, I don't know,

1:41:49I don't think anyone knows around this table,

1:41:51what the actual headcount will be in the Department of Public Safety

1:41:56in each division.

1:41:58That's up to you to make that call.

1:42:00That's correct.

1:42:01We don't make that call.

1:42:02That's correct.

1:42:03When it comes to us, we will look at the numbers.

1:42:05So, I want to say this to my colleagues,

1:42:06again, we're talking operations.

1:42:08There could be staff changes, there could be internal changes.

1:42:11We'll get that come February 1st.

1:42:15So, to start drilling down on specific personnel numbers

1:42:21is very premature.

1:42:24So, what we're asking for again today

1:42:27is for you to make a presentation on the operations

1:42:30of the areas that we have asked you to present to us.

1:42:35There'll be other departments and divisions coming before us.

1:42:38In fact, EMS will be after this.

1:42:41Any of my colleagues who have a specific request

1:42:44of the Administration, please make that to our Council staff

1:42:49and we'll make those requests

1:42:51so we have that in our possession leading up to the budget.

1:42:55Okay, respond to Councilman Jones.

1:42:57No, Mr. Chairman, first we have to define what is--

1:43:02because this is the big problem right now.

1:43:04This is a show.

1:43:05We have to find out first what is the definition

1:43:10of operational review.

1:43:11So, there needs to be a criteria established by our staff

1:43:15if we're going to have the Administration

1:43:17give us an operational review.

1:43:19Now, in any operational review, Mr. Chairman, that I do,

1:43:23it's all about the financial situations

1:43:25and the performance of the department

1:43:26with a snapshot at the moment.

1:43:28And so, right now we don't have any of that here.

1:43:31All we have is just a general concept

1:43:33and some words strung together,

1:43:34not even some of them complete sentences.

1:43:37And so, what I'm sharing with you, Mr. Chairman,

1:43:40is that if this department is going to give us

1:43:42an operational overview,

1:43:44then it needs to tell us exactly what the department has done,

1:43:47what has this production has been,

1:43:49you know, what has it done up to this space and time

1:43:52since our general has been here,

1:43:55and what does that look like for Council,

1:43:58and then what are the financial situation

1:44:00of what we've spent so far in this particular department

1:44:03and in terms of a screenshot?

1:44:05You have that in your possession.

1:44:06You have that.

1:44:07There's one person working there, Councilman.

1:44:09But what I'm sharing, Mr. Chairman,

1:44:11is that if we're going to ask the Administration

1:44:13to do an overview, we need to have--

1:44:15this Council needs to put in place what those requirements are

1:44:20and what we're asking for,

1:44:22and it needs to be detail-oriented

1:44:24so that when they come in here to the table,

1:44:26they know exactly what we're asking them for.

1:44:28It is an actual snapshot of pretty much

1:44:31what they've done in this calendar year,

1:44:33and we don't have any of that here at this table.

1:44:36We're just, like, you know--

1:44:39You've got one person working in this section,

1:44:41one person working here,

1:44:43and the guy is sitting right there.

1:44:46But that's not the point, Mr. Chairman.

1:44:47The point is that it doesn't depend

1:44:49if this department or any other departments,

1:44:52if we're having operational review of a department,

1:44:56we need to have the guidelines of information

1:44:59that we're asking them to come to the table.

1:45:01One of those guidelines, Mr. Chairman, that we have--

1:45:05and this is something we might have to go back and caucus on.

1:45:07One of those guidelines, Mr. Chairman,

1:45:10would be they would have their finances, their financials.

1:45:13If they don't have their own financials,

1:45:15the snapshot of where they are,

1:45:17what they've been doing, how they've been doing it,

1:45:20giving us a breakdown, how successful they've been,

1:45:23what, you know, in this particular instance,

1:45:26you know, how many inspections have been made,

1:45:29what is the framework of what you've been doing thus far,

1:45:33how much--you know, what is your projection

1:45:37of what you will do in terms of caseload, workload,

1:45:41all of that is important.

1:45:43It gives us a better idea, Mr. Chairman,

1:45:45so when we're sitting here and we need to make decisions

1:45:47on if we're going to cut a department, cut funds,

1:45:50or if we see that it's a relevant or a good department,

1:45:54we can do that.

1:45:56So our Vice President, Mr. Chairman,

1:45:59our Vice Chairman has laid out about, you know,

1:46:02other cities and how they work and how those departments

1:46:06are independent, Mr. Chairman.

1:46:08So right now, this doesn't give me a framework

1:46:11that I need to have to really successfully,

1:46:14Mr. Chairman, have an overview of what an overview really is.

1:46:19And we have staff, Mr. Chairman, that could have put this together for us.

1:46:22We've got all this staff that we're paying all this money for,

1:46:25and they could have did a better job in giving and detailing

1:46:28and putting together a thorough piece to give to the Administration

1:46:31and tell them exactly what we're looking for for a snapshot.

1:46:33And so with that, I ask the question, Mr. Chairman, at the bottom,

1:46:37what was that figure and what was it--what's the purpose of it?

1:46:40Do you have a comment?

1:46:43Because that's what we got from the Department of Finance.

1:46:45Through the Chair of the Councilman, Jones,

1:46:48you're talking about the $200,000?

1:46:50$269,994.98.

1:46:55Through the Director, through the Chair, to the Councilperson,

1:47:03the $269,994.88 is the total unobligated budget

1:47:08of the Inspector General's office as of the date this report was made.

1:47:12So where does that money go?

1:47:13I mean, who is for it?

1:47:16How is it spent?

1:47:18Through the Director, through the Chair, to the Councilperson,

1:47:22the budget is specified within the full time, the benefits,

1:47:29and then all of the appropriate line items.

1:47:32If you go down that column, that will show you the amounts

1:47:35that are unobligated for each of those items.

1:47:37The question that I ask is, who is it for?

1:47:41How is it spent?

1:47:42Through the Director, through the Chair, to the Councilperson.

1:47:44Who is this for? Is this salary for one person?

1:47:46No, this is the full budget.

1:47:48This is the full budget for the full department.

1:47:51So the whole department is to--Mr. Chairman, division rather, sorry.

1:47:55This whole division is $269,000.

1:48:00No, no, no.

1:48:02That's the amount that's available in the unobligated budget.

1:48:05In full time, they haven't used the full amount.

1:48:07In benefits, they haven't used the full amount.

1:48:11And all the other line items they haven't used the full amount

1:48:14because it wasn't fully staffed for the year.

1:48:16And we also had an employee leave mid-year, roughly.

1:48:20So I'm just going to ask this.

1:48:23What's the department budget for the total budget?

1:48:26Is this the number?

1:48:27Through the Chair, the number that's there is not the total budget,

1:48:32so that's a line item for the budget.

1:48:35No, it's not the $269,000.

1:48:37What's been spent so far?

1:48:40This is what we've expended so far, Mr. Chairman.

1:48:42The full budget amount for the year,

1:48:44for the division of the Public Safety Inspector General,

1:48:49is $515,579.

1:48:52The amount that is spent to date is $245,584.12.

1:48:57The unobligated amount available in their current budget

1:49:00is $269,994.88.

1:49:05I see.

1:49:06And so this is pretty much who's going to be utilized for staff,

1:49:09Mr. Chairman, through the Director.

1:49:12Through the Director, through the Chair, to the Councilperson, no.

1:49:18The staff, we only have one person on staff right now.

1:49:21If we do hire an Inspector General before the end of the year,

1:49:24then, yes, that salary will come out of --

1:49:27the salaries and the benefits will come out of that part.

1:49:29The rest of the budget is for the specific line items

1:49:32related to travel, training, office supplies,

1:49:36things of that nature.

1:49:37So we will have some money left over, Mr. Chairman,

1:49:41since this is October and we've got two months left.

1:49:44So we're going to have money left over in this budget.

1:49:47Through the Director, to the --

1:49:48through the Director, to the Chair, to the Councilperson.

1:49:50That's correct.

1:49:51And do we know what that looks like?

1:49:53What will that be?

1:49:54Through the Chair, to the Councilman Jones and I,

1:49:56at this particular time,

1:49:57we're in the process of hiring an Inspector General.

1:49:59So their salary will come out of that.

1:50:02So we don't know exactly the amount,

1:50:04but we will have money left over.

1:50:06In the operational review, Mr. Chairman,

1:50:10we have the framework that the City has been giving us.

1:50:13And I guess, you know, you're given less than a week

1:50:16to put this together.

1:50:17It just has so many -- you have to ask you so many questions here.

1:50:22And I'm just going to just ask you

1:50:25the CPC Disciplinary Review Inquiry.

1:50:28Can you explain that?

1:50:39Thank you.

1:50:41To the Chair, Council Member.

1:50:44The CPC Community Police Commission Disciplinary Inquiry

1:50:47concerned a request from the Police Commission

1:50:50about the disciplinary process that was used.

1:50:55That's it.

1:50:56Just one inquiry.

1:50:57That's it.

1:50:58That's that one.

1:50:59Yes, sir.

1:51:00Okay.

1:51:01So, Mr. Chairman, it would be good to have, like,

1:51:03what would help me is exactly what you do.

1:51:05You know, a breakdown of, you know,

1:51:08so you receive so many inquiries.

1:51:10Sure.

1:51:11You've had to do so many investigations.

1:51:13So on the same line of my colleague, Richard Starr,

1:51:17a really breakdown of production.

1:51:19And, Mr. Chairman, to the Director,

1:51:21because I know you have other departments

1:51:23you're going to bring in here.

1:51:24So it really -- to give me an overview of the success

1:51:27of what this helped me as the Councilman

1:51:29to understand the productivity of the department

1:51:32and how efficient and effective it has been.

1:51:34And this helps the public to understand

1:51:36what you really fundamentally do.

1:51:38Thank you, Councilman.

1:51:39Councilman Slaife.

1:51:41Thank you.

1:51:43So prior to the passage of issue 24, now chapter 115,

1:51:48my understanding is that the Cleveland Police Commission,

1:51:53which was also constituted as a requirement

1:51:56of the consent decree,

1:51:58would have sunsetted had the consent decree --

1:52:02upon the end of the consent decree,

1:52:04which obviously hasn't happened yet,

1:52:05and that the purpose of issue 24 was to ensure

1:52:07that the Community Police Commission

1:52:09would survive beyond the consent decree.

1:52:12Is that a correct characterization, Chief?

1:52:14Through the Chair of the Councilman Slaife, yes.

1:52:17Okay, thank you.

1:52:18And I think that that is understandable

1:52:21and something that I've always been supportive of.

1:52:24But I will say, and I will continue to say,

1:52:26and not back down from saying,

1:52:28that the reason I opposed issue 24 specifically

1:52:32was not because I opposed the continuation

1:52:35of the Cleveland Police Commission

1:52:39beyond the tenure of the consent decree.

1:52:42It's because it was poorly written,

1:52:44and I think that the idea was good,

1:52:46but the execution was bad.

1:52:49Basically, it was us give the paper a C

1:52:54because we are now having to contend

1:52:57with these seemingly conflicts

1:53:00in all of the different entities

1:53:02that currently exist surrounding police accountability.

1:53:06And as someone, I'm not saying I'm the smartest person here,

1:53:10but I guess I do wear glasses.

1:53:14I struggle, I struggle to understand the difference,

1:53:20but the specific unique role of the police inspector general

1:53:26relative to the Community Police Commission

1:53:30and the police accountability team.

1:53:32There appears to me an engaged layperson

1:53:38to be such a high degree of overlap

1:53:43that we have created beyond the requirements

1:53:47of the federal government

1:53:50that the entire system spends more time arguing with itself

1:53:54than actually achieving metrics.

1:53:58I'm a little nervous to ask for your specific commentary on that

1:54:05because as the mayor's predecessor would say,

1:54:08kind of it is what it is, this is where we are.

1:54:13Can someone explain to me and the public

1:54:17what the specific role of the inspector general is

1:54:22and how it is different and frankly independently necessary

1:54:28from the Community Police Commission

1:54:30and police accountability team?

1:54:31Because before you answer,

1:54:33my hunch is that the limitation right now

1:54:36is when issue 24 passed,

1:54:39the federal government should have said

1:54:41we no longer need this aspect of the consent decree

1:54:44because it is covered by other regulatory bodies

1:54:47as they've evolved.

1:54:50The chair, I'm going to turn it off to assistant director Shachna.

1:54:54We just had a brief conversation about the specific requirements

1:54:59from the consent decree and settlement agreement

1:55:02relative to the responsibilities of the Office of Inspector General.

1:55:07So we're going to read verbatim from the consent decree

1:55:11and it's completely different from the responsibilities

1:55:15of the CPC as well as the PAT, Police Accountability Team.

1:55:19Okay, go ahead.

1:55:20Who's ever going to do that?

1:55:21Through the chair to the councilman.

1:55:23Issue 24 also put in the charter,

1:55:29Office of Professional Standards,

1:55:32Community Police or Citizens Police Review Board

1:55:36along with the Cleveland Police Commission.

1:55:43So they had several oversight roles

1:55:46that were put into the charter that had to do with OPS

1:55:50and CPRB have to do with discipline.

1:55:54Cleveland Police Commission also has discipline

1:55:57along with a plethora of other responsibilities

1:56:00that were put in the charter.

1:56:03The police inspector general and his title police inspector general

1:56:07in the amended settlement agreement

1:56:10which was amended after issue 24

1:56:12because they had to remove CPC.

1:56:16They had to change their roles.

1:56:19It's in paragraph 253 and it specifically outlines the duties.

1:56:26It's the duties of the police inspector general

1:56:30will include authority to do the following.

1:56:33Review CDP policies and practices to determine

1:56:36compliance with state and federal law effectiveness,

1:56:39consistency with principles of bias free

1:56:42and community policing and procedural justice

1:56:44whether they promote public and officer safety

1:56:47and whether they are achieving the goals of this agreement.

1:56:51B, audit compliance with policies and procedures.

1:56:54C, conduct investigations.

1:56:57D, analyze trends.

1:57:00E, develop specific recommendations for reform

1:57:03concerning policies, procedures, practices,

1:57:06trainings and equipment to improve police services

1:57:09and accountability.

1:57:11F, analyze investigations conducted by OPS

1:57:15to determine whether they are timely, complete, thorough

1:57:18and whether recommended dispositions are supported

1:57:21by the preponderance of the evidence.

1:57:23G, collect and analyze all sustained findings

1:57:26in the discipline imposed including the use

1:57:29of mitigating and aggravating factors

1:57:31to assess disciplinary trends and determine

1:57:34whether discipline is consistently applied, fair

1:57:37and based on the nature of the allegation.

1:57:40And H, make reports and recommendations

1:57:43for reform publicly available.

1:57:46So in short, I know we're all talking about

1:57:51how we would like to see the police inspector general

1:57:55or inspector generals in the city generally.

1:57:58But this was created as a direct result

1:58:02of the settlement agreement and we have to comply

1:58:04with the settlement agreement, the words

1:58:06of the settlement agreement in order

1:58:08to reach compliance with the decree, right?

1:58:12So we don't want to deviate from that, the authority.

1:58:16So things that are outside of that authority,

1:58:19not necessarily within the purview

1:58:21of the inspector general.

1:58:22And as you notice, it doesn't say to investigate

1:58:27mayoral decisions regarding division of police

1:58:30or investigate director of public safety

1:58:32or the division of fire or what have you.

1:58:35It's those specific things in there.

1:58:38And that is the role as set up by the settlement agreement.

1:58:41- And I hope that that helps as very clearly defined

1:58:44and it's separate from what the responsibilities

1:58:46of Pat meant also CPC as well.

1:58:50- And I would add that it is, we get a lot

1:58:53of comments especially from applicants applying

1:58:56to the inspector general that this is typically not

1:59:00what an inspector, it's called an inspector general,

1:59:02but it's not typically what an inspector general does.

1:59:05So this is really a role created

1:59:09and we are following what the settlement agreement says

1:59:12and what it titled it.

1:59:14- Councilman.

1:59:16- Thank you.

1:59:17And I wrote down all of those A through H points.

1:59:21So that's what's written, that we can refer back to that.

1:59:25I guess I'm not gonna ask you point blank

1:59:29if you believe that the community police commission

1:59:32understands the difference between their body

1:59:36and your office, that's too loaded of a question.

1:59:40But I guess this at risk of bringing up flock cameras.

1:59:46I believe we are receiving a resolution

1:59:50from the police commission expressing their belief

1:59:54that flock, they have the ability to dictate policy.

2:00:00policies on flat cameras and they are advocating that flat cameras or ALPRs, whatever, want

2:00:07to use the formal or the informal lingo, we should cease using those as they come up with

2:00:12a policy.

2:00:13But I'm hearing from your definition of what the inspector general does that the inspector

2:00:18general reviews policies and practices.

2:00:22So using that as a specific example, who has oversight of this or is this maybe to use

2:00:31an analogy, like this is a bicameral legislature and the answer is both?

2:00:35>> Director.

2:00:36>> And assistant director.

2:00:37>> Through the chair, to make sure I understand your question, Councilman Slyfe, it's about

2:00:41who has oversight over the ALPRs?

2:00:43>> The policies around ALPRs.

2:00:46>> Through the chair, Councilman?

2:00:50>> It's both.

2:00:51>> Yeah.

2:00:52>> Equal.

2:00:53>> The CPC says they have final authority over policies and procedures of the division

2:01:01of police.

2:01:03It is the responsibility and the settlement agreement for the inspector general to review

2:01:06policies and procedures to determine their efficacy and provide recommendations.

2:01:14It is still up for interpretation of whether or not that resolution is --

2:01:20>> How much more time do I have?

2:01:21>> I'm not going to talk about the form that they took in dictating that they're creating

2:01:25a policy or not.

2:01:27That is something for the law department to review, not me as assistant director.

2:01:32>> Okay.

2:01:33So I'm going to try to, because I probably don't have much time left, what I am hearing

2:01:37is that the inspector general may be a resource potentially to the community police commission.

2:01:45And I'm just going to share my anecdote.

2:01:47I believe that a lot of the inability for that body in the previous years to achieve

2:01:55things has been because they put too much on their plates.

2:01:57They expect to do everything at public meetings and just the scope of their work is too great

2:02:04for the time that they have allotted.

2:02:06So I will ask to Mr. Morrison if he could very briefly characterize his interaction

2:02:14with the police commission.

2:02:15I'm curious if they are availing themselves of the opportunity for you to review policies

2:02:23and practices so that they can advise on final determinations per charter 150.

2:02:28>> Who can answer that?

2:02:29>> Through the chair, I'll turn it over to Mr. Morrison in a second.

2:02:35In the charter under 115.5 --

2:02:37>> It's 115.

2:02:40>> It's four.

2:02:43But there is a procedure in there that says that they can provide a referral to an inspector

2:02:51general but not directly to an inspector general.

2:02:53They had to do it through the I believe the mayor's office I think in the charter or the

2:02:57director of public safety.

2:02:59But there is a procedure to do that within the charter of 155 under the CPC.

2:03:07>> To the chair, Councilman, I meet regularly or I have met regularly since I've been acting

2:03:14since June with the executive director of the CPC and the co-chairs.

2:03:19There's a good bit of dialogue about their process for policy review.

2:03:23And it's productive.

2:03:24To answer your question, yes.

2:03:30>> Dave, just through the councilman?

2:03:32Yeah.

2:03:33Okay.

2:03:34But there is a -- does the division of police have a policy on the LPRs?

2:03:41>> Through the chair.

2:03:42Yes.

2:03:43>> Okay.

2:03:44That's what I figured.

2:03:46Okay.

2:03:47I have councilman Conwell.

2:03:48He's not here.

2:03:49>> He's not here.

2:03:51>> Okay.

2:03:52And come to the table, brother, so we can get moving here.

2:03:56Okay.

2:03:59>> As a matter of fact, I went and got the book because I knew I wasn't going crazy.

2:04:07I said, you must be going crazy.

2:04:09And I brought the book and we'll see if I can discuss it.

2:04:14>> The clock's running.

2:04:15Keep going.

2:04:16>> Well, I'll sit back and listen to everybody.

2:04:18>> Okay.

2:04:19>> I'm not going to just throw some other stuff in, so I'll yield.

2:04:23>> Thank you, councilman.

2:04:24>> All right.

2:04:25>> Kind of you.

2:04:26Okay.

2:04:27Councilwoman Hudson.

2:04:29>> Thank you, chair.

2:04:30Thank you to my colleagues.

2:04:33Several of my questions have already been asked and answered.

2:04:38So through the chair, you mentioned that you regularly meet with the chair and the

2:04:47co-chair of the CPC.

2:04:50Can you kind of differentiate what the inspector general does regarding policy review as opposed

2:05:01to what the CPC does specifically regarding, you know, technology like block, shot spotter,

2:05:10use of drones.

2:05:11>> Whoever can answer.

2:05:14>> Okay.

2:05:16>> To the chair, to the councilman, or councilwoman, sorry, pardon me.

2:05:21There's redundancy, but it's also contributes to be more thorough.

2:05:26It's a different range of experience and it's a different orientation on the review.

2:05:30So in OIG's case, we look at it in the context of how does this fit alongside other statutory

2:05:39obligations?

2:05:40How does this fit in terms of specific language in the consent decree, the settlement agreement

2:05:46that addresses officer safety and public safety?

2:05:51And it's a different -- it's a different voice.

2:05:54>> Okay.

2:05:55And through the chair, specifically, you mentioned earlier that, you know, you had 20 year history

2:06:02working in the Department of Criminal Justice.

2:06:07And so, do you -- are you adding that expertise in reviewing these policies?

2:06:19>> To the chair, to the councilman, I certainly hope so.

2:06:23>> And then that is my understanding from councilman's life sign of questioning that

2:06:29you are providing that expertise on a regular basis to the CPC?

2:06:34>> Correct.

2:06:36>> Okay.

2:06:37Did you review CPD's, you know, policy around floc cameras?

2:06:47>> To the chair, to the councilmember, yes.

2:06:52As an acting role, I individually am not trying -- I'm trying very hard not to commit

2:06:58the office to a priority or a project that we have an office of one.

2:07:05We soon will have an office of two.

2:07:08So my focus has been on trying to lay the foundation for a mention of prioritization

2:07:14framework.

2:07:15That framework takes most of our resources and devotes them to the Division of Police

2:07:20and OPS inquiries, rather than instigating a specific inquiry that could take several

2:07:26months, which, with one FTE, that's a huge commitment.

2:07:33>> Through the director -- or through the chair, to the -- how many people here?

2:07:37House member.

2:07:38>> I would also add that CPC in October of 2025 also reviewed and approved the current

2:07:47LPR policy and was also approved by DOJ.

2:07:50>> Okay.

2:07:52And I know you mentioned through the chair that you've been part of the team since 2025.

2:07:58Who previously held this position since the inception of the consent decree?

2:08:03>> Through the chair, councilmember was Shailene Agowal.

2:08:07>> And prior to that, it was Christopher -- >> Christopher Weiland.

2:08:10>> Okay.

2:08:11>> But there was a two-year gap in appointments.

2:08:15>> That's correct.

2:08:16>> Which was pointed out to repeatedly by the federal monitor as a deficiency, and that's

2:08:24why when I said earlier, I don't understand why it took so long to fill those positions.

2:08:30>> Through the chair, is there a reason why it was so difficult to find a competent individual

2:08:35to hold this position?

2:08:36>> Through the chair, councilmember, really good question as we're going through the process

2:08:41of trying to hire an inspector general again, Christopher Weiland, who is the -- my assistant

2:08:49general was the first inspector general.

2:08:52Once he resigned and took another position, we did go through the process of trying to

2:08:59find another inspector general.

2:09:02We had one or two that were good candidates.

2:09:06They dropped off the process, which we had to start the process over.

2:09:10So it's been challenging, quite honestly, to find the proper person.

2:09:15Again, we did send an offer to Shailene Narglewall.

2:09:19She accepted.

2:09:20She was here for a short period.

2:09:21She resigned.

2:09:22Then now we're in the process of hiring another inspector general, and we're really close.

2:09:28We're going through the background checks for the next inspector general.

2:09:32>> Okay.

2:09:33And thank you.

2:09:34Did an inspector general review CPD's policy around shot spotter?

2:09:42>> Whoever can answer.

2:09:44>> Through the chair, that was not one that I believe that was done, not to my knowledge

2:09:50at least.

2:09:51I'm not quite sure if it was done under Christopher Weiland, what is still the police inspector

2:09:55general, and that particular office actually reported to the chief of police.

2:09:59I'm not quite sure.

2:10:00>> Okay.

2:10:01And then a similar question.

2:10:02Did the inspector general review CPD's use of drones?

2:10:08>> Through the chair, no, they did not.

2:10:11>> Is it too late?

2:10:14>> Whoever can answer that?

2:10:15>> Through the chair to the councilmember, there's an inquiry draft regarding UAS technology

2:10:21that, again, trying not to commit a newly appointed IG to significant utilization resources.

2:10:32There's been a draft for it, yes.

2:10:37>> Don't forget, we have two separate drones.

2:10:40We have CPD, and then we have fire and EMS.

2:10:45>> Yeah, department public safety drone program first respond.

2:10:47>> That are separate policies, one for each department?

2:10:51>> Yes, correct.

2:10:52>> Okay.

2:10:53Thank you.

2:10:54I also, you know, just have to back up what my colleague Councilman Starr said.

2:11:01Other cities have inspector generals that are, you know, have a broader focus than

2:11:06just the division of police.

2:11:08Chicago, for example, their inspector general is to promote economy effectiveness, efficiency,

2:11:15and integrity by identifying corruption, waste, and mismanagement by city government.

2:11:20I, you know, have to agree that we could use, you know, a broad focus to inspector

2:11:27general in the city of Cleveland.

2:11:29It could really help inform council to, you know, how things operate and what needs to

2:11:36be changed.

2:11:37That's all.

2:11:38>> Thank you.

2:11:39Thank you for keeping your time.

2:11:41I have Councilwoman House Jones.

2:11:47>> I guess my basic question, because a lot of questions have already been asked.

2:11:53So I know we've continued to have this debate about issue 26 and inspector general's office.

2:12:04Has the administration worked with Cleveland City Council to outline a more effective

2:12:18and/or clean rules that will guide the overall direction of public safety?

2:12:25>> Who can answer that?

2:12:29>> So if we say it for clearly, have we brought together the administration and Cleveland

2:12:36City Council to put forth a revised issue 26?

2:12:41>> Not the chair or council member, not to my knowledge.

2:12:47>> Okay.

2:12:48So to the chair of the committee, has Cleveland City Council put forth a written plan to improve

2:12:55issue 26?

2:12:56>> 26?

2:12:59>> Yes.

2:13:00>> 24?

2:13:01>> 24, I'm sorry.

2:13:0224, I'm sorry.

2:13:03>> No, because it's a charter change.

2:13:06>> Right, right.

2:13:07>> So the next charter change is coming up -- >> I'm going to tell you --

2:13:18>> Through the chair to the Councilwoman, I believe 2028 is the next charter review

2:13:23commission.

2:13:24However, council can put a charter change on the ballot at any time.

2:13:28>> On the ballot.

2:13:29Again, I'm -- >> I know you know.

2:13:31>> Exactly.

2:13:32I do know that.

2:13:33And so I'm asking this question and putting it up and really everyone is indicated -- well,

2:13:40I'm saying not everyone.

2:13:41There are people that talk about -- no, I would say everybody think, no, we got a problem

2:13:45going on, right?

2:13:47And so I would offer to this committee in particular that we take some time to actually

2:13:55work through what we believe as legislators who write the law should put forth a plan

2:14:02of improvements to get to the end goal for consideration of residents in the city of

2:14:08Cleveland in 2027.

2:14:11That is my suggestion, I will be willing to work with whoever so that we don't consistently

2:14:16have this conversation.

2:14:17I've been in this body now that's going on my fifth year, and we are not getting anywhere

2:14:23to me of a level of productivity and being able to deliver based on the interest and

2:14:28the desires of Clevelanders, right?

2:14:31The average Clevelander, they are not legislators, but they know the end goal.

2:14:35So it would make sense that those who have the authority would then be a guide and a

2:14:43helpmate to Clevelanders to get the end goal.

2:14:47So you know, and I don't know if that is the purview or the thought process of this

2:14:53committee, but I would offer it and think that that could be our work to actually just

2:14:58start having working meetings in the safety committee to put forth a plan for actual charters

2:15:04so that the Clevelanders can get to the end goal in 2027.

2:15:09Thank you.

2:15:10Okay, no, can I get at least can we get some input like because again, I've offered many

2:15:16things like this over the years.

2:15:18And so I would like to know through the chairman to my colleagues, if this is a real doable

2:15:24thing, at least just from the interest of the people who are on this committee, and

2:15:29then we can work with leadership because if people say no, I'm not interested, and that's

2:15:33a different, but if people on this committee think that is a worthwhile engagement, then

2:15:39we can go to leadership.

2:15:41So I would like to get here from input from my colleagues.

2:15:44So this is the only opportunity to actually have a conversation.

2:15:47So I'm just trying to get some clarification.

2:15:49You're proposing that we sit down collectively to talk about how to change issue 24 our

2:15:55charter section 115.

2:15:58Yes, and don't just leave it there, and any other things that are that people have believed

2:16:05will improve overall public safety, and how we actually work together to support together,

2:16:11not having duplication if that's what people feel to get to the end goal of an improved

2:16:18comprehensive public safety approach and service here in the city of Cleveland.

2:16:23I myself, I've always believed discussion is healthy, dialogue is healthy.

2:16:27So I would have no problem sitting down and discussing any thoughts, ideas, recommendations

2:16:33that any member would have, and I'm sure, I haven't talked to the council president,

2:16:37I don't know if you've posed that to him, but I myself would have no problem sitting

2:16:41down and discussing anything.

2:16:43I mean, I think anytime we can improve the operations of city government, we need to

2:16:49discuss that and look at it.

2:16:50Yeah, and I think beyond a conversation is to actually look at the rules and provide

2:16:55suggestions to then think if it's worth to have a charter thing.

2:17:00That's what I'm asking.

2:17:01Thank you.

2:17:02Can I ask you a question?

2:17:03Wait a minute.

2:17:04Is it constantly still?

2:17:05Are you?

2:17:06Okay.

2:17:07Councilman Conwell?

2:17:08Through the chair to the councilwoman, to your question to council members to say yes

2:17:15or no, are you going to set that meeting up and bring us the information of why, and

2:17:21you're going to champion it if you bring me your issues and concerns and say even though

2:17:28you change things, how are you going to make sure that it gets to its objective through

2:17:35the chair to the councilwoman?

2:17:37So no, I would not necessarily be the whole heart responsibility.

2:17:43I'm saying this isn't something that was a desire from Clevelanders, right?

2:17:48Right.

2:17:49Who said they wanted to get an improved public safety system.

2:17:51They did see that.

2:17:52And in the last four and a half years, I have heard the commentary from colleagues.

2:17:59We have also seen how the unfolding just with the Cleveland police commission.

2:18:03We have seen how that has unfolded.

2:18:05We have seen the gaps in the inspector general's office.

2:18:08There is a problem and leaders should be willing to step up to the plate to provide a solution.

2:18:14That's what I'm saying.

2:18:15I am willing to take a role in it, but I would also expect there will be others to

2:18:20say, hey, you know what?

2:18:21I think I should add to this because we see the problem.

2:18:24We know the problem.

2:18:25So no, I'm not going to wholeheartedly take this responsibility of myself, but I'm trying

2:18:30to understand who else in this body, A, acknowledges there may be some problems and B, will be

2:18:37willing to use their expertise, their skillset to bring to the table so that we can put

2:18:42something comprehensive that we as a city can be proud of.

2:18:45Because right now I don't think we are necessarily, I wouldn't say that I would be proud of what

2:18:50we are, the lack of cohesion that is in the city.

2:18:56When it comes specifically around public safety, I think there needs to be much more intentional

2:19:02partnership with the Cleveland police commission, which I am going to propose that to the leadership

2:19:07team beginning in 2027.

2:19:10You cannot expect people on a part time basis to give insight and input on something that's

2:19:17a 24/7 operation.

2:19:18That's true.

2:19:19That's true.

2:19:21So, but when we sit down to the chair, I'll sit down and talk with you about this over

2:19:25coffee.

2:19:26I mean, it doesn't have to be you.

2:19:27I would, I'm just going to be clarification, I actually believe this needs to be committee

2:19:32work.

2:19:33No, no, no.

2:19:34That is what I'm saying, committee work.

2:19:35You and I are why.

2:19:36Okay.

2:19:37We will, I think we need, this is an issue we should discuss in a caucus with the council

2:19:41president.

2:19:42Yeah, we're doing it in a caucus.

2:19:43This is going to be his ultimate call as to what, um, again, again, respectfully,

2:19:51I do think that this is something that each, every member of Cleveland city council needs

2:19:56to say yay or nay to.

2:19:58And if the majority of members think this is a direction we need to go on, that's what

2:20:02we need to work on because this is a problem and we are failing Clevelanders in this area.

2:20:08But I'm also where the protocol, the council president is in charge of the body.

2:20:13And there are rules that dictate if they are council members that would like to do something

2:20:16else they can do that as well.

2:20:17I'll work through the chair, um, and discuss this and I would say to the administration

2:20:22as well.

2:20:23Um, I'm assuming you have your own thoughts and recommendations or ideas of how you think

2:20:30charter section one, one five could be better improved upon.

2:20:34Correct.

2:20:35Mm hmm.

2:20:37The chair would work with law department, though it's, we can have those conversations.

2:20:40Yeah.

2:20:41Because we see, we see the flaws, we see the breakdown, um, where things are not happening

2:20:47correctly.

2:20:48Uh, I think we have a, um, a good director of the CPC who's trying to work with people.

2:20:57That's been an improvement.

2:20:58There's no doubt about that one, in my opinion, uh, miss Williams is a, is a breath of fresh

2:21:03air up to this point and compared to what we had.

2:21:07So again, any ideas you thoughts that you folks have is how to, we can improve things.

2:21:13I'm more than willing to sit down and talk with anybody, but again, let's make it very

2:21:17clear this would necessitate a charter change, charter change.

2:21:24And that might be a whole different, um, that's going to be a heavy lift that will be a heavy

2:21:28lift.

2:21:29Real heavy lift.

2:21:30Yep.

2:21:31So again, any other questions on Mr. Chair?

2:21:33Yes, Councilman.

2:21:34You could push just like you passed policy and you got to have a wheel and you have

2:21:40to know who is going to support.

2:21:42I supported you 24, but if they don't want to support it, the chair to the council woman

2:21:49and people might just say it, then all things fall apart.

2:21:53And that's with any legislation, any law, anything like that.

2:21:58We have to be able to, uh, not only put it on paper, but to monitor and control what

2:22:04we're, what we're talking about to the chair, to the council and I'll yield to Mr. Chair.

2:22:09Yes.

2:22:10We don't forget we have legislation and EMS to do and Mr. Chairman, I'm still on back.

2:22:18Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:22:19Um, I just would like to express my willingness to participate in this discussion and then

2:22:24I also want to just be clear through the, through the chair to the council woman, um,

2:22:30your intention is to also bring community voices into this discussion, um, because

2:22:35I have heard, um, myself from community members who were involved in getting issue 24 passed,

2:22:42um, about their frustration with how things have been going.

2:22:45And so I think it's important to bring, um, you know, their voices to the table as well

2:22:50as, um, other, other stakeholders in this process and Mr. Chair, just, I will say the

2:22:56last thing as we close this up, um, yes, um, at least from my section, um, even though

2:23:05something may be hard, um, that is the word, you know, us than them, that does not mean

2:23:11that we should not go to a toward a path to undertaking it.

2:23:15That's one of the things if we work together and the quote always says, many hands make

2:23:19light work far too often.

2:23:23People are going at things alone.

2:23:25This is, this, this work is too important to go at it alone.

2:23:29And if we actually took the time, we could bring something forward for the, you know,

2:23:35the citizens of Cleveland to say, yeah, or nay to, and that's, this is not just the

2:23:39only thing other communities are bringing forth charter amendments.

2:23:43It's the county got about five of them this year.

2:23:46You know, there's nothing stopping us as a city from bringing forth charter amendments

2:23:51as we deem necessary.

2:23:53I haven't seen that one since I've been here and no, I'm talking, I'm talking, and this

2:23:59is my fifth year.

2:24:00Now we haven't brought not one.

2:24:03We need to like that.

2:24:04This is our responsibility.

2:24:05And so I just think, like I said, there's an opportunity in 20, 27 and beyond.

2:24:10Thank you.

2:24:11Councilman Jones.

2:24:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2:24:13Thank you.

2:24:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2:24:15I'm going right back to the overall operation hearings.

2:24:19I know we got into, uh, Charlie's life got us into talking about the commission because,

2:24:23you know, he never liked it and no, and no, have any of some of the other council members

2:24:28ever liked it neither.

2:24:30And so, um, at the end of the day, I would caution the council on this particular subject

2:24:37matter because this was a subject matter that was brought by the people and the will

2:24:42of the city.

2:24:43And so, uh, if you want to go into trying to change it, again, we have staff people.

2:24:49So who do we assign to it?

2:24:52How do we make it?

2:24:53And then how do we bring the community engaged in it?

2:24:56And I would say, uh, you would probably want to include the original stakeholders.

2:25:00And that's the end of that because it has nothing to do with this man sitting over here

2:25:04and talking about the attorney general.

2:25:06So now we're going to get back to what I was talking about and how poorly this is and

2:25:12how it leads us down to other topic matters we don't need to be talking about.

2:25:16What we need to be talking about, uh, is the production of this department here that's

2:25:20in front of us.

2:25:22And I got a problem, Mr. Chairman, and the issue is, is that we need to put together

2:25:27the proper outline because when I go through this, I just, it got too many questions.

2:25:32Like if we start on page one, we're serious review division policies and practices, compliances

2:25:39with all relevant standards to determine the impacts on officers and public safety.

2:25:44Then you got perform policy compliance reviews.

2:25:47How many, and this is what we talk about the production of the department, Mr. Chairman,

2:25:51as an example, how many compliance reviews have been done in this department?

2:25:57How many performance audits have been done, Mr. Chairman, in this department?

2:26:02And what are some of the inquiries and how many inquiries have you gotten in this department?

2:26:07Can you tell us that now?

2:26:08Are you prepared to have that information?

2:26:14I'm keeping Mr. Jones to 10 minutes because we've got other legislation.

2:26:18Well, Mr. Chairman, you're using too much of my time now then.

2:26:20No, I did not open my mouth twice.

2:26:22Continue.

2:26:23All right.

2:26:24All right.

2:26:25So now, now what, because see the issue is, and I'm making a point here, if we're going

2:26:29to sit here and you're going to be spending a lot of time on operation reviews and carrying

2:26:34on, then we need to have the production of the department.

2:26:37We need to have the finances of the department.

2:26:40That information needs to be laid out by the administration or this is just a farce.

2:26:44And so then when we get to the actual budget, then we're going to have somebody else that's

2:26:50not the head of the department trying to explain about what the department is doing.

2:26:53And that's not going to work for me sitting here at this table.

2:26:56Not sitting here at this table all the time I've been sitting here at this table from

2:27:00the last time and this time, because it does a real, it doesn't do the kind of justice

2:27:05necessary to talk about the snapshot of where the department is from a whole calendar year

2:27:11all the way up until now.

2:27:13So can you tell me, sir?

2:27:15To the chair, to the councilman, since June of 2026 to present, we've concluded an HR

2:27:24audit after reviewing all the material that had been accumulated.

2:27:29We've provided a commentary.

2:27:30Let me repeat the question, Mr. Chairman.

2:27:33Performs policy compliance reviews, performs audits, and other inquiries.

2:27:38So how many, I'm just asking for a number.

2:27:41How many performance policy compliance reviews have you done?

2:27:46And then how many audits have you done?

2:27:48And how many inquiries have you received?

2:27:51Mr. Morrison?

2:27:53To the chair, to the council member, inquiry isn't an inquiry from the public.

2:27:59Inquiry is just a term of art for a review of a specific topic.

2:28:04So you haven't done that.

2:28:05That's just flowery words in here.

2:28:06No, sir.

2:28:07So then how many compliance reviews have you done, Mr. Chairman?

2:28:11To the chair, to the council member, compliance review has been one.

2:28:15One compliance review?

2:28:16Since June?

2:28:17And then how many audits have you performed?

2:28:19Again, to the chair, to the council member, one HR audit was concluded.

2:28:24So you've done one compliance review and one audit?

2:28:28Okay.

2:28:29Now-

2:28:30To the chair, to the council member, I'm going to be quick.

2:28:32These-

2:28:33No, no, no, Mr. Chairman.

2:28:34I'm going to be really quick.

2:28:35I know you have your time.

2:28:36No, no, no, Mr. Chairman.

2:28:37I've never said my time.

2:28:38These really take a long time.

2:28:39Mr. Chairman, I rescind my time because I know where the director is going here.

2:28:43So I rescind my time.

2:28:44I had a direct question here.

2:28:46He answered the question.

2:28:47I want to go to the next one.

2:28:48Okay.

2:28:49Answer you next question.

2:28:50I'm going to go to the filibuster and then lose my time because you are already impatient.

2:28:56It says analyze investigations conducted by the Office of Professional Standards.

2:29:00How many?

2:29:02To the chair, to the council member, I don't have the number off the top of my head, but

2:29:06I think it's about 12.

2:29:0812, analyze and access disciplinary trends within the division.

2:29:11How many?

2:29:14To the chair, to the council member, that's ongoing for topics.

2:29:18It's not just-

2:29:19Do we know if we got one or just maybe or is just flowery words right sitting in here?

2:29:22No, sir, it's specific to the settlement agreement as a requirement and division of police data

2:29:28analysis have been forthcoming with it.

2:29:32Councilman.

2:29:33Okay.

2:29:34So now you come back now here and you says concluded or substantially advanced HR audit

2:29:40of CDP member complaints.

2:29:43How many audits of the member complaints have you done?

2:29:47Mr. Morrison.

2:29:49To the chair, to the council member, that was a specific audit that was ongoing with

2:29:55the departure of the previous IG, and this was a conclusion of that.

2:29:58And what was that complaint, Mr. Chairman?

2:30:02To the chair, to the council member.

2:30:03It wasn't more than one, but you got it, it appears to be more than one because you

2:30:07said CDP member complaints with an S. So it was a complaint, it was one complaint.

2:30:13What was that?

2:30:14It was a series of complaints that had gone stagnant with the division of police.

2:30:19Okay.

2:30:20So how many complaints?

2:30:22I don't have the number in front of him, sir.

2:30:24Can we get that information that I'm asking for if, Mr. Chairman, if the staff.

2:30:28I want to make sure the staff hears that request.

2:30:32So the gentleman, Mr. Chairman, doesn't have the answer to the questions I'm asking.

2:30:37So if he doesn't know the numbers, Mr. Chairman, if our staff can put this down to get us

2:30:44the information later, then we can ask the kind of information moving forward down the

2:30:49road when it comes to budget hearings.

2:30:54You said independent monitoring team assessment OIG materially improved assessment towards

2:31:00full compliance.

2:31:01What does that mean?

2:31:03Mr. Morrison?

2:31:05To the chair, to the council member.

2:31:06That's the specific paragraphs of the settlement agreement as amended in 2022 that are assessed

2:31:16by the federal monitor.

2:31:18Those are obligations of the inspector general to perform.

2:31:23The federal monitoring team creates a methodology to assess whether or not the OIG is performing.

2:31:29And on those seven paragraphs, I don't have it in front of me, but I believe this is

2:31:34for me.

2:31:35Can you bring that to us, Mr. Chairman, so I can understand that because it's going

2:31:37to seem like it's more than meets the eye for you to kind of explain what that, so

2:31:41if you can do that, Mr. Chairman, to the distinguished gentleman.

2:31:45To the chair, to the council member.

2:31:46Supply the council with whatever you can.

2:31:48You got down here, advanced professional relationship with stakeholders.

2:31:51Who is that?

2:31:52To the chair, to the council member, that's the division of police, that's the office

2:31:58of professional standards, that's the community police review board, that's the citizens

2:32:02police review board, that's the community police commission, and other elements within

2:32:09the department of public safety.

2:32:10So is that kind of like meeting them and talking to them, shaking their hand, having

2:32:12a coffee?

2:32:14Yes, a little bit more than that.

2:32:15Okay.

2:32:16All right.

2:32:17So then when we get back here to 2027 core initiatives, I think that's in the back.

2:32:23It says develop 2027 work plan with stakeholder involvement.

2:32:29How is that going on?

2:32:30What is that, and what does that mean?

2:32:33To the chair, to the council member, the development of a working group to come up

2:32:38with a working plan, limited resources, and trying to marshal those in the best way possible

2:32:42to be effective, OIG would convene a group of stakeholders to discuss what priorities

2:32:51should be addressed, and that would include...

2:32:54Okay.

2:32:55Sir, you got to speak louder.

2:32:56Sorry.

2:32:57They're saying that they're not picking you up.

2:32:58Sorry.

2:32:59Just pull that right in front and speak louder.

2:33:02That working group would be composed of various stakeholders that have concerns and interest

2:33:08in the consent decree.

2:33:11Okay.

2:33:12And so, you understand where I'm coming from, I hope, Mr. Chairman, it says monitoring

2:33:20ongoing inquiries.

2:33:21What's ongoing inquiries, for an example, and how many are you monitoring?

2:33:29To the chair, to the council member, ongoing inquiries, that's an obligation of the OIG

2:33:34following Green Book standards for inspectors general.

2:33:39We're obligated to follow up with what we've reported on, and monitor progress, and whatever

2:33:45recommendations are being made.

2:33:46And Mr. Chairman, I would suggest, and I did this as an example to show you how this

2:33:51is just hodgepodge thrown together, and then the gentleman couldn't ask none of the questions

2:33:57you got down here on the paper.

2:34:00And so, what I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, is that when we're talking about operational

2:34:04overview, moving forward, Mr. Chairman, and I know the director can do a good job, because

2:34:10I've sat here long enough at the table, and I saw the projection of the department, where

2:34:16it was going, how many employees it was, the breakdown of the work that was done.

2:34:24There was organization, it gave us a snapshot, Mr. Chairman, of exactly what the production

2:34:29of the department was in terms of the overview.

2:34:33And then a thorough presentation by the director, Mr. Chairman, in years past gave us a breakdown

2:34:38also of the personnel of the employees in the whole nine yards.

2:34:43When we started this here, on this particular piece here, we talked about why we budgeted

2:34:53for so many employees, and we still don't have it, and we're already a full calendar

2:34:57year around on this proposition.

2:35:00So Mr. Chairman, with that, I would just suggest that maybe we go back to our staff.

2:35:06We got some competent, capable staff people.

2:35:09They should be helping us here with making sure that we are putting together the kind

2:35:16of questions needed for each department, and there's a professional package that we have

2:35:20direction.

2:35:21If the council is going to be doing this, and given the administration, or we're going

2:35:25to allow the administration, Mr. Chairman, in years past, to give us a complete snapshot

2:35:32of production, where they are, where their financial snapshots are, and it helps us,

2:35:38Mr. Chairman, to have an intelligent look at the department, and it doesn't lead us

2:35:43to all of this conflict, talking about other issues and topics that have nothing to do

2:35:47with the oversight review process.

2:35:49Thank you.

2:35:50So whatever request members of staff, members of council have, please get those to the

2:35:54staff, because, again, going up to the budget round, we want to make sure all requests

2:36:01are in wait and advance to the administration, so we can have a better idea.

2:36:06So we're done, except --

2:36:08I have --

2:36:09No, we're going to go to EMS.

2:36:11Right.

2:36:12Right.

2:36:13But I have --

2:36:14You're going to come --

2:36:15Just want to --

2:36:16Wait a minute.

2:36:17I want to get this clear.

2:36:18So you're going to have -- you're going to have -- going into the budget round,

2:36:19you're going to have two people, one other person you're bringing on, correct?

2:36:22Through the chair, that's through my office, and, yes, we should have the inspector general,

2:36:27and Mr. Morrison will be the deputy inspector general, which is --

2:36:31Okay.

2:36:32So you'll have two people going into the budget?

2:36:34That is correct.

2:36:35Okay.

2:36:36Yes, sir.

2:36:37Okay.

2:36:38So I need a note.

2:36:39Yeah.

2:36:40And just for points of clarification, when we initially -- Mr. Morrison was giving the

2:36:42presentation, it's an overview of what the office did, which is one PowerPoint slide.

2:36:48It's just an overview.

2:36:49And then specifically the investigations, the audits, the analysis that he does, those,

2:36:57to be very fair, they take time to get -- gather all information and not to make excuses.

2:37:04He is an office of one.

2:37:05He's doing a really good job for an office of one to actually take the time, gather the

2:37:11information, and be very deliberate and thoughtful in what he's producing, and it takes time.

2:37:19Sometimes these investigations, if you give the inspector general the time and the resources

2:37:24necessary, they can take a year, they can take two years, just depending on the extent

2:37:30of the investigations of what I'm trying to say.

2:37:32So he's doing what he's supposed to do.

2:37:35The inquirers that come in, he's handling it as they come in.

2:37:38Yeah.

2:37:39Supply us what you can, and we're not here to compromise any investigation.

2:37:42I want to make that clear.

2:37:45So whatever you can provide to us based on a request made at the table, please do so.

2:37:50Okay.

2:37:51We're going to go into EMS.

2:37:53EMS is up.

2:37:54Thank you, Mr. Morrison.

2:37:55In fact, let me do this.

2:38:06I'm going to -- Councilman Conwell, don't go away.

2:38:10I'm going to knock out these two pieces of legislation because I'm -- yes, because I'm

2:38:16concerned -- I mean, we can't have it both ways at this table.

2:38:19I'm going to make it clear.

2:38:20You can't come in late and then leave early.

2:38:24I'm not talking to you, Kev.

2:38:26You can't come in late to these meetings and then leave early and then leave us where

2:38:29we have to have a concern about whether we're going to have a quorum or not.

2:38:32We get paid to be here.

2:38:34Get paid to be here.

2:38:35Okay.

2:38:37Okay.

2:38:38Let's move on.

2:38:39Can I make a suggestion, Mr. Chairman?

2:38:40What's your suggestion, Councilman?

2:38:41If we have, you know, pieces of legislation and we're going to be doing overview or oversight

2:38:47of the different departments, if we could just do the legislation first.

2:38:53And then -- Councilman, we didn't have a quorum.

2:38:56We didn't have a quorum.

2:38:58That's why we went into the presentations.

2:38:59That's okay, Mr. Chairman.

2:39:00I get you.

2:39:01Don't get upset with me now.

2:39:02I'm getting upset because people want to -- you've got to be here at time.

2:39:05I get you.

2:39:06So I get you.

2:39:07I'm on the page.

2:39:08But when we do have a quorum, Mr. Chairman, the suggestion is that we should do the

2:39:11legislation.

2:39:12Thank you.

2:39:13That's all.

2:39:14Okay.

2:39:15Thank you.

2:39:16My humble suggestion to the distinguished gentlemen, I don't mean to get you upset

2:39:17because you're a good chairman.

2:39:18Thank you.

2:39:19So I don't want you to have a little pressure upset.

2:39:20And I appreciate you being at the table.

2:39:22Thank you.

2:39:23It's number 116-2026 by Councilmembers Polencic and Griffin by Department of Requests, an

2:39:30emergency ordinance authorizing the Director of Public Safety to enter into an agreement

2:39:35with the Cogger County, with Cogger County, in a regional forensic science laboratory

2:39:41of Cogger County Medical Examiner's Office to provide law enforcement-related scientific

2:39:47testing services for a period of one year with one-year option to renew excisorable

2:39:53by the Director of Public Safety.

2:39:56First time reading was September 21st, 2026, approved by the Director of Public Safety,

2:40:01approved by the Director of Finance, approved by the Director of Law, came at the Council

2:40:09Committee September 30th, 2026.

2:40:13Director and your team.

2:40:15Yes, sir.

2:40:16To the Chair, this ordinance number, which is 1116-2026, it's a legislative summary,

2:40:25it's legislation authorized to enter into a contract or contracts with Cogger County

2:40:30for law enforcement-related scientific forensic testing services through the regional forensic

2:40:35laboratory of the Cogger County Medical Examiner's Office for a period of one year with one-year

2:40:43option to renew excisorable by the Director of Public Safety.

2:40:47Another one of the contract is for the term of January 1st, 2026 through December 31st

2:40:55of 2026, an amount not to exceed $500,000.

2:40:58The one-year option would be for the term from January 27th through December 31st,

2:41:072027, an amount not to exceed $522,500, subject to annual appropriation.

2:41:15These amounts would be paid from the Division of Police Operating Budget.

2:41:19And we're here for questions.

2:41:24Questions of the Committee to the Director.

2:41:27Yes.

2:41:30Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:41:31Through the Chair to the Director, how are these charges allocated to the City of Cleveland

2:41:37versus other cities in the county?

2:41:42So I see that the cost of the agreement is $500,000 next year, not to exceed $522,500.

2:41:53Is the City solely paying for charges that are related to incidents in the City of Cleveland?

2:42:03Through the Chair to the Councilmember, great question.

2:42:05Yes, this is for what the forensic laboratory is testing for the Division of Police?

2:42:11Yes, ma'am.

2:42:13So who determines what is the City of Cleveland, what is Lakewood, Shaker Heights, different

2:42:20cities like that?

2:42:21Through the Chair, that information comes from the county.

2:42:26We know what we, the Division of Police, know what we send to the county to be tested,

2:42:30and then we are billed for those specific tests.

2:42:34Okay.

2:42:35Thank you.

2:42:36Welcome.

2:42:37Thank you, Councilwoman.

2:42:38The Chair recognizes Councilman Joe Jobs.

2:42:40Through the Chair and the Councilman, it's $500,000 from January of this year through

2:42:52December 2026, and then we are exercising one year option would be from January 1st

2:42:59of 2027 through December 31st, 2027.

2:43:04That would be an amount of, not to exceed, $522,500.

2:43:16That's not to exceed, that's not to exceed $522,500 for this year.

2:43:28That's through the Chair, to Councilman Jones, that's correct.

2:43:37So the request is, through the Chair, Councilman, we are asking for $500,000 for this year,

2:43:47and then next year is not to exceed $522,000.

2:43:50Yes, sir.

2:43:52Through the Chair, not sure.

2:43:59We're just not going to exceed the $522,000.

2:44:02Through the Chair, the Councilman, the Division of Police uses that daily.

2:44:26We send evidence over to be tested whether it's drugs, blood, whatever case might be

2:44:33so it's used on a regular basis, and this is the charge for the testing of those items.

2:44:43Thank you.

2:44:44Mr. Chairman, how many tests do we actually do here on an annual basis?

2:44:50Give us an idea of why we spend the money, and the audience probably would want to know

2:44:54too.

2:44:56Sure.

2:44:57I can get that, provide that information for you.

2:44:58But we don't know.

2:44:59Through the Chair, I don't have that in front of me, but I can get that information for

2:45:02you, and possibly I can get that information before I leave the table.

2:45:06Okay.

2:45:07How much is the, Mr. Chairman, the actual charge?

2:45:09Does it vary based upon what the situation is?

2:45:13Through the Chair, the actual charge itself, again, this is what we submit, and we'll

2:45:20get the information for you, and this is the actual cost associated with what's submitted

2:45:24and tested, actually tested, by the laboratory.

2:45:28So we don't know that name.

2:45:29I don't have that information right in front of me.

2:45:30Do you have any example you can give us?

2:45:34Examples of what's tested?

2:45:35Yeah, what you would test and what that would normally cost.

2:45:38The actual cost per item is what you're asking for.

2:45:40Right, give me an item, something you know about, something will cost.

2:45:44And I don't have that in front of me.

2:45:45I would have to actually look at the documents and the cost for the actual testing of certain

2:45:48items.

2:45:49So it would be good to understand how all that works, because we do do that every year.

2:45:54This is, Mr. Chairman, to the Director, just a boilerplate item, correct?

2:45:57We do this all the time.

2:46:00This contract?

2:46:01Yes.

2:46:02The laboratory test for us on a regular basis, yes, sir.

2:46:07The contract is a renewal.

2:46:10This is a renewal for the contract?

2:46:11Yeah, this is just general legislation we always perform, correct?

2:46:16We do perform this, yes, sir, when the contract is going to expire, yes.

2:46:21No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

2:46:23Thank you.

2:46:27Any other members, any other questions?

2:46:29Questions?

2:46:30Okay.

2:46:31Without objection, ordinance number 1116-2026 is approved as read.

2:46:37Please sign it up.

2:46:38Thank you all.

2:46:39Ordinance number 1165-2026 by Councilmembers Palencic and Griffith by Departmental Request

2:46:45and Emergency Ordinance authorizing Director of Public Safety to exercise the option to

2:46:50renew contract number CT-6002-PS-2024-2021 with TMT Consolidated LLC doing business

2:47:03as Cleveland Vehicle Detention Center, where the storage of non-commercial impound vehicles

2:47:10and motor vehicles and one-stop impound services for the Department of Public Safety came to

2:47:16the City Council was read for the first time September 28th, 2026, approved by Director

2:47:22of Public Safety, approved by Director of Finance.

2:47:25There's no legal objection by the Law Department.

2:47:27Director, tell us what this is.

2:47:30Yes, sir.

2:47:31To the Chair and Councilmembers joining me at the table, to my far right, Sergeant Donegan

2:47:36from the impound unit and to my far left next to Assistant Director Schachner is Commander

2:47:42Schram who's in charge of that.

2:47:44So they're here to answer any questions and the ordinance number is 1165-2026 as you

2:47:49stated.

2:47:50This is just trying to exercise the option to renew the contract with who you mentioned

2:47:56before, which is TMT Consolidated LLC doing business as Cleveland Vehicle Detention Center

2:48:02for the one-stop impound services.

2:48:05We're just trying to exercise that to continue with the contract and both the Commander

2:48:09and the Sergeant are here to answer questions relative to the operations of the lot, impound,

2:48:16one-stop and also any other questions that they may have.

2:48:19Thank you.

2:48:20Are any of the fees changing?

2:48:21Because I see nothing in here.

2:48:28To the Chair, no, sir.

2:48:31Since the updates from recent legislation, they are not projected to be increasing or

2:48:36changing.

2:48:37Okay.

2:48:38So the operator has to maintain a lot, has to make sure because there were some issues

2:48:44in the past about the lot being over, I don't know if this was the Latin question, it was

2:48:49overgrown and unmaintained.

2:48:51Was that the one?

2:48:52Through the Chair, you're talking about a lot, too?

2:48:54Which is totally different.

2:48:55That's a process.

2:48:56That's the process in a lot.

2:48:57This is a different lot.

2:48:58We don't have that issue there and we no longer have the issue of the lot, too, as

2:49:01well.

2:49:02That was taken care of.

2:49:03But the contractor here has to maintain this lot to certain standards, correct?

2:49:07To the Chair, yes, sir, they do.

2:49:09So the vehicles that are processed through here are what?

2:49:14These are non-commercial vehicles that have been towed by the City of Cleveland for either

2:49:19arrests, recovered stolons, vehicles that are found in parking violation or any such

2:49:28thing in accidents.

2:49:30Okay.

2:49:31Okay.

2:49:33Questions of the Committee?

2:49:35Questions of the Committee?

2:49:36Without further ado, Ordinance-

2:49:38Mr. Chairman.

2:49:39Yes, sir.

2:49:40I have a question.

2:49:41Yes, Councilman Jones.

2:49:42Now, this here contract, how much did you say it was again?

2:49:46There is no dollar amount.

2:49:47There is no dollar amount here.

2:49:48Wait a minute.

2:49:49Madam Clerk, could you please close the doors so we can have-

2:49:52Through the Chair, or through the Councilman, they are paid based on the fees that are

2:49:58collected.

2:49:59So the City isn't expending any amount to the requirements contract.

2:50:05So all of this is all funds that's coming from the fees, from the impounding.

2:50:09How much does the City make, Mr. Chairman?

2:50:12I mean, after, you know, what you make and what's after expenses you take into account?

2:50:18Through the Chair, to the Councilman, the City's cut of the funds collected is a thirty

2:50:25dollar impound fee for every vehicle that's towed for either parking arrest or an accident.

2:50:33The City receives ten dollars from every vehicle that's towed as the result of a stolen

2:50:39recovery or suspected stolen recovery.

2:50:43Is that per day?

2:50:44No.

2:50:45That is a one-time fee per each vehicle.

2:50:47Okay.

2:50:48Thank you, Councilman Jones.

2:50:49Do you receive?

2:50:50That is all the City receives.

2:50:51And then what is the total annual that you receive?

2:50:54To the Director or whoever can come in.

2:50:57I do not have that figure.

2:50:58Through the Chair, to the Councilman, we'll get that figure for you.

2:51:01Okay.

2:51:02So then, what I would ask is how much do you get, right?

2:51:07Because all of that comes in and then, I mean, when we get this, do we take this money

2:51:12then, Mr. Chairman, and put it back into the General Fund?

2:51:15Through the Chair, Councilman, that's correct.

2:51:16Okay.

2:51:17So we don't use it for any other purposes?

2:51:19Through the Chair, that goes right into the General Fund.

2:51:22Okay.

2:51:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2:51:24Thank you, Councilman Jones.

2:51:25Yes.

2:51:28Ms. Hudson?

2:51:29Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:51:30I just want to clarify what TMT Consolidated LLC does.

2:51:37Through the Chair, is my understanding, so this is the Quigley Road lot?

2:51:41Through the Chair, Councilwoman, that's correct.

2:51:44And is that property owned by the City of Cleveland?

2:51:47If I may.

2:51:50Through the Chair to the Councilwoman, know that property is owned by TMT Consolidated.

2:51:55Okay.

2:51:57So is this contract through the Chair is, I believe it said one-stop shop, one-stop

2:52:04impound services?

2:52:05So it's for leasing the property?

2:52:08No.

2:52:10Okay.

2:52:11The City doesn't lease the property.

2:52:13The contractor, as part of their contract, provides the facilities, which includes the

2:52:19storage lot, as well as providing us office space and their own space to conduct business.

2:52:31And through the Chair, is there a reason why we do this on someone else's property and

2:52:35not City of Cleveland property?

2:52:37Through the Chair to the Councilperson, this is, I believe, the theory was at one point,

2:52:44the process of claiming your vehicle involved a customer going downtown, getting the information,

2:52:53possibly then traveling to the individual lot, which were between seven and nine scattered

2:52:59throughout the City of Cleveland to retrieve your paperwork, your ID, your registration

2:53:05that may be in your vehicle, then going back downtown to the Justice Center, paying those

2:53:11fees after presenting those documents, and then traveling one more time to the individual

2:53:18lot where it was stored to get your vehicle back.

2:53:25The idea behind the one stop was to have the police and the clerk of courts and the

2:53:32vehicles all in one area to be more convenient to the customers.

2:53:38So as in the name, it's a one stop.

2:53:41You only have to go to one location to retrieve your documents, pay your fees, and get your

2:53:47vehicle back.

2:53:48Okay.

2:53:50Thank you for explaining that.

2:53:51How long has the City been operating it in this manner?

2:53:54According to my understanding, they've been at that location since 2013.

2:54:00Okay.

2:54:01Thank you very much.

2:54:02That's all.

2:54:03Thank you.

2:54:05Okay.

2:54:06Okay.

2:54:07Without any further ado with legislation, ordinance number 1165-2026 is approved as

2:54:10read.

2:54:11Please sign it up.

2:54:12EMS, you're up.

2:54:14Add or up?

2:54:16Please sign it up.

2:54:18This will be our last oversight overview before we go into budget hearings with EMS.

2:54:25Commissioner, welcome to the table, introduce yourself for the viewing public.

2:54:37Commissioner Orlando Wheeler, Cleveland Emergency Medical Service.

2:54:44Okay.

2:54:50Christopher Chapin, Deputy Commissioner Cleveland EMS.

2:54:54Thank you.

2:54:55Yes.

2:54:56Okay.

2:54:58Council chair and safety chair and council members, we're here to get an overview of

2:55:03the division of EMS.

2:55:05It's stated that we have Commissioner Wheeler as well as Deputy Commissioner Chapin here

2:55:12at the table.

2:55:13They'll go through the presentation here.

2:55:15Again, this is going to be a division overview, the core initiatives and the 2026 progress

2:55:21and also the goals for 2027 and then we'll finish off with the current staff and levels

2:55:28and the class that we have in.

2:55:30Again, we'll have the commissioner and the deputy commissioner Chapin go through the

2:55:35presentation then we'll be happy to answer any questions that the group may have.

2:55:39Thank you.

2:55:43Are you going to do a Chapin?

2:55:52This afternoon, right?

2:55:54Yeah.

2:55:56Good afternoon.

2:55:57I'm going to go over the departmental overview.

2:56:00It starts with our pledge to the community.

2:56:04Our goals going into 2026 were to expand the whole blood program, establish the community

2:56:09crisis response bureau in conjunction with Tanisha's law and maintain current staffing

2:56:15levels and improve wellness within the division of EMS.

2:56:21With those core initiatives beginning with whole blood, we did expand this program to

2:56:32include medical issues resulting in hypovolemia and to date the whole blood program has administered

2:56:40blood to over 100 patients.

2:56:46We established the community crisis response bureau.

2:56:51Commissioner Malave was hired in June of 2026 and is currently establishing response

2:56:56plans for the community crisis response and they have also begun making contact with individuals

2:57:02in the community.

2:57:05We worked hard to maintain current staffing levels, reach full staffing in 2026 and we

2:57:12hired a class of lateral transfers that began in September and these replaced attrition

2:57:19and some other people who have left the division.

2:57:22One of the things I'll say is the division of EMS is now 50 years old and we're experiencing

2:57:27something we haven't experienced in the past and that is retirees.

2:57:32We've had about eight people retire this year which is very unusual for us so we are compensating

2:57:40for that.

2:57:41We worked to improve employee wellness.

2:57:45Father Doug Brown who is with the police and fire divisions has also become our official

2:57:50chaplain and we also were in the process of implementing wellness and training processes.

2:57:58For 2027 our goals are to continue to change the way division responds to 911 calls.

2:58:06We started a pilot program for nurse navigator that started October 1st and will run through

2:58:12December which is a program with Metro Health where we transfer lower priority calls to

2:58:19a telehealth operator who is a registered nurse.

2:58:24They further triage the individual and if needed they send them back to EMS or they

2:58:31can handle it on their end.

2:58:33That program, like I said, it just started a couple weeks ago but it has proven to be

2:58:37pretty beneficial to this point.

2:58:41We continue to expand our community crisis response bureau and grow that program.

2:58:47We want to continue to enhance and utilize our whole blood program and expand our training

2:58:54initiatives which is treatment and employee wellness.

2:58:59As of -- this is our current head count.

2:59:04We are budgeted for 315.

2:59:06We currently have 305 employees.

2:59:09We are short two captains.

2:59:11Those are due to retirees, three EMTs and paramedics and five emergency medical dispatchers.

2:59:21Thank you.

2:59:22>> Director, do you have any comment?

2:59:27>> This EMS and what they are doing is under the leadership of Commissioner Will and Commissioner

2:59:35Will is amazing, the initiatives they started, telehealth is one in particular, whole blood

2:59:41and several other initiatives that are making the unit or the division very efficient and

2:59:48with the service they are providing to our citizens, being very innovative in what he

2:59:53is doing and that is helping our citizens which is the primary goal to find the best.

3:00:00To the Chair, I want to state that with some of the initiatives that we have started here at the division,

3:00:41this is not about reducing call volume. It's not about turfing off emergency calls.

3:00:49It's about providing the best resources we can for the citizens.

3:00:54Commissioner, let me say this. The viewing public might not know this, but I do, because I came here right after.

3:01:04It was City Council who set up EMS that was working with the administration at that time due to the fact that we were unable to respond to calls for service.

3:01:16They would throw people in the back of police station wagons and hope that you got to the hospital in time.

3:01:26And some folks didn't, and then we all know the situation with former Councilman Mike Zone who died as a result of a heart attack and questions about response to his home.

3:01:41And then we saw other situations. So it was that, and then we did a lot of work over the years.

3:01:47We did the white paper, and I want to thank our former employee, John James, who worked with me very closely in the '80s to develop the white paper for EMS.

3:01:54I want to thank the white administration for accepting many of the recommendations that we made with regards to the numbers of units, the types of ambulances we were buying and purchasing.

3:02:07So I'm going to just ask you a few questions, and then open up, and I have Councilman Jones.

3:02:11Where's the councilman starting, Councilman Jones?

3:02:13You indicated you're down two captains, two EMTs, paramedics, and five emergency commandal dispatchers. The three EMTs, paramedics, and five dispatchers are critical.

3:02:27As you come to us with your new budget, are you making an effort to fill those positions?

3:02:33To the Chair, that's correct. After this current class of '19, graduate late December, we plan on having another class of lateral transfers or EMTs that will start the first quarter of '27.

3:02:52Okay.

3:02:53Along with filling the five EMTs, we currently are in the process of getting that approved through civil service.

3:03:01Okay. I appreciate the work you do, Commissioner, and your Deputy Commissioner.

3:03:08I am very supportive of EMS. I know the importance of it. Council is very supportive as well, my colleagues are.

3:03:15There's no more important thing that we do here than protecting life and liberty.

3:03:21And I can't think of any more important response that we have and responsibility that we have making sure that EMS is functioning.

3:03:29With regard to your rolling stock, your vehicles, how are you?

3:03:34To the Chair, we are pretty good with our vehicles. We are in the best shape since my, what, 33 years here with the division.

3:03:43That's what I want to hear, brother, because we, you know, we saw the junk we had that we had in EMS, and that's why we did the white paper and some of the other actions that we took.

3:03:58And so again, to hear that we're in the best condition in 33 years, we want to stay there. I want to say this to the Director.

3:04:07So vehicle repair, maintenance, procurement of vehicles when needed. How many units are you running now?

3:04:15To the Chair, we are running. The goal is 25 during the day, 21 at night.

3:04:20We've been averaging 23 currently during the day and 20 at night.

3:04:28And is that because of the staffing levels?

3:04:31Well, it's various reasons that go into that, but primarily, you know, it's a combination between staffing and, you know, benefit time, but we have strived to make sure that we keep those units operating.

3:04:49Okay, Director, you know what our concerns are. You know, we want to fill those positions. We want as many units running as possible.

3:04:56We also want to make sure as it pertains to their stations, to where their units are deployed at, we want to make sure that their conditions-

3:05:08Yes, sir.

3:05:09Are just as important in firefighters conditions, the condition of their houses, their stations, the condition of the vehicles.

3:05:21I can't say enough. We put more money in your budget last year, as you know. We wanted to make sure you were able to fill those positions.

3:05:31And so we're going to take whatever action we need to make sure these critical positions are filled.

3:05:40EMS is part of that consideration as we repair, renew these stations. EMS is taking consideration, so we make sure that their house-

3:06:04And future graduation classes. Please consider using the Council Chamber. We've offered that in the past.

3:06:12It's already equipped for Channel 20, the lighting, the PA system. It's easy for people to park.

3:06:20Please, I've said this to the Director. All you have to do is contact the Clerk and she will accommodate your graduations here.

3:06:29We've offered the same for police and fire, and they have not taken us up on it. But I'm going to say that again, Director.

3:06:36Do not lick the gift horse in the mouth, okay?

3:06:40Understood.

3:06:41We're offering-

3:06:42Understood.

3:06:43I'm offering our space to you free of charge, and people in Cleveland like the word free, okay?

3:06:49So we're giving it to you free of charge. Use the Council Chamber.

3:06:54Okay, understood.

3:06:55We have Councilman Starr and then Councilman Jones. You're good? Okay, Councilman Jones.

3:07:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And that's, you know, one of the things is, and I think you hit on some of the subject matter that we don't have here.

3:07:09So as we, again, I'm going to say how we improve the overall ask in terms of overall operational review.

3:07:18And when I look at what we just, the ABC123 presentation we have, we have a number of employees who are here.

3:07:34Do we have a breakdown, Mr. Chairman, to the director of the ethnicity of those employees?

3:07:39Through Chair, we do have a breakdown of that. It's not in that presentation, but we have a breakdown. We can get that to you today.

3:07:46And so, Mr. Chairman, see, we might not, and I don't know how you guys got it organized and what deals you're cutting.

3:07:54And so when it comes to me sitting here at this table, as council people, it's our responsibility to have the oversight.

3:08:05And so having those breakdowns gives us a better idea because there was a one time when, you know, I didn't want to see a certain merger because, and I've said this, and I continue to beat the table on it.

3:08:16Because we digressed, is that all of our department should look like the citizens we represent.

3:08:24So if we have 300 employees, we have 305 employees right now, is that correct, Mr. Chairman, to the director?

3:08:36It's on the back page.

3:08:37I know I'm looking at it now. That's why I'm asking.

3:08:39Through the chair.

3:08:40Because sometimes I ask about these numbers, Mr. Chairman, they haven't been correct in the past.

3:08:44Through the chair, as a councilman, that's correct.

3:08:46So I want to make sure he, I'm confirming what he got written down.

3:08:49So Mr. Chairman, the question is, how many African Americans are in the department?

3:08:58Can anybody give that to the report to provide that to us?

3:09:06Through the chair, we have a total of 80 African Americans employed in the division of EMS.

3:09:15But I just think it'll work, Mr. Chairman.

3:09:17When we used to have half that, the African American population, you know, we're half the city.

3:09:25Why don't we have half this number here?

3:09:28And what's the problem with recruiting African American candidates for this job?

3:09:32There is no.

3:09:35And we have a relationship, Mr. Chairman, with Tri-C Community College, don't we?

3:09:39Through the chair to councilman, we do have a relationship with Tri-C and other EMS training programs.

3:09:50And we actively recruit as many minorities and females as possible.

3:09:59And those numbers that you see are based on the position.

3:10:07So we still actively recruit as many minorities as possible.

3:10:15And through our civilian EMT program, that's also our goal.

3:10:21This is the lowest I've ever seen it, Mr. Chairman, to the commissioner or to the director.

3:10:25This is the lowest number we've ever had in this department of African Americans.

3:10:29And, you know, Mr. Chairman, I'm really concerned, and we got a problem with recruitment.

3:10:33We still don't have enough police.

3:10:35And so I don't know what's going on with our recruitment, but we were promised here, Mr. Chairman, on the safety committee,

3:10:42through the previous director that if we purchased and bought this school and this facility,

3:10:48that they would increase minority participation in these programs.

3:10:51And now here we are five years down the line, and we ain't got nothing, and the numbers keep on going down.

3:10:58And I pretty soon will have one minority in the EMS department, and then we'll say we've been still trying to recruit them.

3:11:04So I don't know what the problem is.

3:11:06Where is the disconnect, Mr. Chairman, to the commissioner where our numbers continue to go down

3:11:10when we represent 50% of the population in the city of Cleveland?

3:11:13Commissioner, but first of all, are the numbers really that far down?

3:11:19See, I'm not aware of that.

3:11:21Through the chair to the councilman, they're a little down, but they're not drastically down from where they were.

3:11:28And I have to say that we still employ more African American, Hispanics, and females than our counterpart.

3:11:42So Mr. Chairman, getting a full breakdown here, because this is far worse than it's ever been when I was here.

3:11:48And Mike White was the mayor of the city of Cleveland.

3:11:50It was half.

3:11:51And it was one of the reasons, Mr. Chairman, to the commissioner that I didn't want to see a merger between EMS and fire, because fire didn't represent that.

3:12:04At that time, fire had less than 8% minorities on the entire team.

3:12:09And so when they started talking about that, I suggested to them that they increase their population to represent the city.

3:12:15And I represent a neighborhood that's bulk majority African American, and I represent a people who are looking for jobs, Mr. Chairman.

3:12:23So I don't mind, and I've made this overture and fell out on the table about how can I work with you, Mr. Director, the safety director,

3:12:33to talk about how we can combine and become a team and start hiring some of the folks in my neighborhood.

3:12:39Because it just seems to me that if we continue to go down this route, we'll have two African Americans in the entire EMS department.

3:12:46And that just ain't going to suffice with this council member sitting over here at this table.

3:12:49I don't know what to say how you're going to do this, but Mr. Chairman, it's a problem.

3:12:54So moving on, Mr. Chairman, let me just say this.

3:12:58I'd like to see a full breakdown, Mr. Chairman, to the director of these declines and these numbers.

3:13:04I'm quite sure we got a historical perspective on this.

3:13:07And then, Mr. Chairman, the next question is, there's production.

3:13:10See, if we're going to do oversight, what is the production?

3:13:13What is our time, our call time?

3:13:15How fast do we get to a call?

3:13:18Through the chair to councilman, it's a few points I want to clear up.

3:13:24I was here during my--

3:13:26Mr. Chairman, I'm asking a question, and a distinguished gentleman can have his time.

3:13:30You can give him miscellaneous time.

3:13:32I'm moving on because I don't have that much time, and this is not to be mean to the distinguished gentleman.

3:13:36But I'm on a time limit, and I want to stay with the chairman because he already went off earlier.

3:13:41And so I ain't going to have him going off again.

3:13:43So I ask the question, what is our response time when those phone calls come in?

3:13:48Through the chair to the councilman.

3:13:50To our priority one calls, our response time last week was 7 minutes and 41 seconds, which is well below the national average.

3:14:02For our priority two, our response time was 8 minutes and 58 seconds, which is still below the national average.

3:14:12And see, Mr. Chairman, that's the kind of stuff that we need to have here at the table.

3:14:16We need to have those response times.

3:14:18And if it's below the national level, let me commend the commissioner for a job well done in terms of being able to respond to 7 to 8 minutes.

3:14:28And what is the national response time, Mr. Chairman?

3:14:30Through the chair to the councilman, the national average is 8 minutes, 59 seconds for priority one call.

3:14:38Are we beating everybody right now in Ohio?

3:14:41Through the chair to the councilman, I can't speak for the rest of the divisions, well, for the rest of the state, but for our region and for the city of Cleveland,

3:14:54our response times for priority one calls are probably better than most.

3:14:59Oh, that's exceptional.

3:15:00And Mr. Chairman, you talked about new vehicles and trucks and maintenance and stuff like that.

3:15:06And I know I've been one, been at this table talking about making sure we get the equipment out there.

3:15:13How is our fleet, Mr. Chairman, to the commissioner?

3:15:16Through the chair to the councilman, our fleet is the best it's been in 33 years.

3:15:22I see.

3:15:23And then, Mr. Chairman, to the director, I'd like to know what that means.

3:15:26Through the chair to the councilman, it means that, on average, we receive two new ambulances per year.

3:15:36And our average mileage on our frontline vehicles are below 100,000 miles.

3:15:43So if I get injured or get hurt or need to get in one of them ambulances, it's going to be a smooth ride.

3:15:50It's going to be bumpity bump.

3:15:52Through the chair to the councilman, our ambulances aren't built for comfort, it's built for durability and for productivity.

3:16:05Well, I want to say, I've been in your new one and I've been in an old one.

3:16:08And the old one broke my back.

3:16:10And the new one didn't.

3:16:11So that's the reason why I said to you, you know, I get what you're saying.

3:16:16I know the newer ones ride much more better, new tires, new suspension systems.

3:16:21You're not riding on one of them old ones that you hit, you feel every shock.

3:16:25Through the chair to the councilman, some of them still, you still feel every bump.

3:16:33But as far as the overall comfort, I'm sure it's more comfortable because we have better cots.

3:16:40So some of that shock is taken away.

3:16:43And Mr. Chairman, moving to the budget here, what is our overall budget for expenditure at this point?

3:16:55How much have we spent? And then, Mr. Chairman, will we have any leftover or do we need more money?

3:17:02You have it on your level.

3:17:04I know, but I want to hear what they got to say because this is what our staff have given us.

3:17:07And I want to hear what they got to say because they got the right numbers.

3:17:10Through the chair to the councilman, overall, for salaries, appropriation, we're roughly at about 81%.

3:17:19Are you looking at our paperwork?

3:17:25Through the chair, I'm looking at the paperwork that's most accurate, and that's my paperwork.

3:17:29Oh, that's your paperwork?

3:17:30Correct.

3:17:31Well, I want to say thank you, Mr. Chairman, that the Commissioner brought his own paperwork.

3:17:36So can you go through your paperwork, Mr. Chairman?

3:17:38Just tell us what the report is.

3:17:41Through the chair to the councilman, our employee benefits are roughly at 80%.

3:17:52Training, professional services, we're roughly at 30%.

3:17:58For our utilities, we're at 99%.

3:18:04For our contractual services, we're roughly 50%.

3:18:14And for our medical supplies and equipment, we are roughly 53%.

3:18:22And for our maintenance, we're at 66%.

3:18:28Mr. Chairman, as relates to injury, have we had a number of injuries reported in the Division of Emergency Medical Services?

3:18:40Through the chair to the councilman, our injuries remain roughly the same as the previous year, so there's not been an increase with that.

3:18:50And overtime, Mr. Chairman, how much overtime do we have?

3:18:53Are we over budget on our overtime?

3:18:55Through the chair to the councilman, we are over budget with our overtime, but it's several factors that go into play with that.

3:19:05We're at 108%.

3:19:08You had 108% over the budget?

3:19:13We're 8% over the budget.

3:19:14You said 8%?

3:19:15Correct.

3:19:16And Mr. Chairman, within the remaining of this year, do you think will that number go down or go up?

3:19:27Through the chair to the councilman, the number will definitely go up because some of our overtime,

3:19:35well, most of our overtime is equated to the 12-hour shift overtime and that's something that we cannot mitigate.

3:19:46And in conclusion, Mr. Chairman, because this is, I don't want to belabor the point, that 8%, what does it represent?

3:19:56Budget was?

3:19:57Through the chair to the councilman, I don't really get what the question is.

3:20:05Right, so if we're over the budget by 8%, right, would that represent 148,000?

3:20:11Would that represent 1 million?

3:20:14Is it 2 million over the budget, 3 million or a million?

3:20:17Through the chair to the councilman, that's roughly based on our $4.3 million.

3:20:24That's almost 10%, so that would represent almost 400,000.

3:20:32$400,000.

3:20:33So, Mr. Chairman, you see how our numbers are different?

3:20:41Well, I'd have to, Tina's not here, but I think she crunched these last week.

3:20:47Yeah, but you see the difference?

3:20:48Yeah, but there's not much difference.

3:20:50Yeah, it's a huge difference.

3:20:51Well, we're going to talk about it offline.

3:20:55Yeah, wait a minute, go ahead.

3:20:57When we run these reports, both of these are taken from advantage.

3:21:02Right.

3:21:03So, they're going to be accurate as of the day you ran them.

3:21:05Yeah.

3:21:06So, if you ran these last week, I ran these last night.

3:21:08Yeah.

3:21:09So, there's going to be a discrepancy.

3:21:11It's not going to be huge, but it is going to show, if you guys ran these a week ago, it's going to show a week's worth of activity that's occurred since then.

3:21:20What the gentleman just said, well, we're showing here, shouldn't be that big of a difference.

3:21:24What line item again, Joe?

3:21:26We're talking about over budget in terms of overtime.

3:21:30The exact number on our report is $370,101.02.

3:21:34I'm sorry, what was that?

3:21:35$370,101.02.

3:21:38Yeah, I know, but we don't have that figure at all over here.

3:21:41It would be the negative amount of the unobligated balance.

3:21:45See, and that's the reason why, Mr. Chairman, it's important for them to have them just make the presentation.

3:21:51And if we can have our snapshot here too, but it'd be important for them to bring the numbers, Mr. Chairman.

3:21:58So, because when I'm looking at this here, if I'm believing what I'm seeing here now for overtime and it's this big of a discrepancy, that's the issue.

3:22:06Michael, would you care to explain that?

3:22:08Yeah.

3:22:09Through the Director and the Chair, the reason that overtime has changed, there was probably a payroll that was processed between the time you ran your report.

3:22:15Yeah.

3:22:16And this report was run.

3:22:17Yes, you're showing a discrepancy.

3:22:21Do you see that picture?

3:22:22Do you see what we have, Mr. Chairman?

3:22:23Do you have ours?

3:22:24Yes, I'm looking at it now.

3:22:25Okay.

3:22:26You guys, you have an overtime variance is $148,866.63, which shows a 3.46% overage.

3:22:36We're showing $370,101.02, which is an 8.61% overage.

3:22:43So, I think it's a timing thing from when the last payroll was processed.

3:22:48So, it just, you know, it's a difference.

3:22:52And so, if it's just a payroll thing, so I guess this whole lot just wasn't calculated in, is what you're saying?

3:22:59That's correct.

3:23:02It wouldn't have been not calculated.

3:23:04It wouldn't have hit the advantage of because that payroll hadn't been processed when you ran the report.

3:23:08I see.

3:23:09So then, if we go over here, Mr. Chairman, then, to print it materials, and if you, the budget that the Chairman gave you, there's some highlights on the side, and it breaks that down.

3:23:21And I didn't know if you want to go through some of that maybe just to give us a review, because I know the Chairman has been very busy here on this.

3:23:29But why not from the print shop, was printed on 476?

3:23:33If you look at item 476, where it says the top, it didn't have no numbers on the page, but it says 640 materials and supplies at the top.

3:23:43And if you go down there, where it says 476.

3:23:45Excuse me a moment, because I'm looking at what they just texted me.

3:23:50We took these numbers as of September 30th.

3:23:53Oh, so these are old numbers, September 30th.

3:23:55It makes sense then.

3:23:57I'm here thinking this was yesterday.

3:23:59All right, so, and, you know, some, well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:24:04It makes a difference.

3:24:05Yeah, it does.

3:24:06So, for the print shop, if you see that, can you talk about that?

3:24:10Why aren't we using the print shop?

3:24:12It makes no sense.

3:24:14And, Mr. Chairman, we had the gentleman over here from the print shop, and we're paying him all this money to be an advisor to two people who've been there for over 20-some years.

3:24:24It didn't make sense to me.

3:24:25And if they've been there for 20 years, they should know how to run the shop, and, hell, they shouldn't have to have an advisor to help them run the shop.

3:24:34And that's the reason why I said, Mr. Chairman, I suggested that, you know, why don't we just bring someone else totally in with new ideals and concepts?

3:24:42Because this year, we're going out for print it to print somewhere else.

3:24:47Why aren't we printing in-house?

3:24:49Whoever can answer that?

3:24:53Through the Chair to Councilman, it's my knowledge we are still utilizing the print shop.

3:24:59As you can see, for the year, the budget amount was $50,000.

3:25:04Is this the print shop?

3:25:05This is the print shop.

3:25:06Is it printed material?

3:25:07So why do we put it on there?

3:25:09Why not from the city print shop, Mr. Chairman?

3:25:15Through the Director to the Chair, the charges from printed reproduction are under appropriation 670.

3:25:21It should be on the last page of your report.

3:25:24It's object 6830.

3:25:27We spent $10,815.46.

3:25:31That's what we have sent to the print shop this year.

3:25:34How much?

3:25:35$10,815.46.

3:25:39So this year, is this accurate what we're looking at right now?

3:25:42Looking at printed materials, that would be stuff that is outside of the print shop.

3:25:49Probably the material shop is unable to do spend the print shop.

3:26:01Only we've sent $10,000 on the outside to outside vendors?

3:26:05No, we spent $10,000 on the inside.

3:26:09For printed material, outside of the print shop, it's approximately $9,078.14.

3:26:30And the material that's being printed outside of the print shop is a copyrighted material that the print shop cannot produce.

3:26:41Mr. Chairman, no further questions.

3:26:45Thank you, Councilman.

3:26:46Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:26:53Through the chair, what is the operational plan for the Division of Community Crisis Response?

3:27:00And is the plan budget looking to increase based on the phased plan that was outlined by Council members during the last term?

3:27:08Can I answer that?

3:27:11Through the chair to Councilwoman, the original plan for Community Crisis Response was to respond to individuals in crisis follow-up and also incorporate the frequent utilizers and substance abuse program all into one.

3:27:30So that mission hasn't changed.

3:27:34And when do you expect the Community Crisis Response team to go into service?

3:27:43Through the chair to the Councilwoman, they have been operating even before it was called the Community Crisis Response.

3:27:51So there are certain things that they're doing currently and things that will be ramping up in the future.

3:28:00So they've always been operating, but we look to expand that and have a more robust program into 27.

3:28:12Thank you. And through the chair, when do you expect those services to be made available by calling 911?

3:28:20Through the chair to the Councilwoman, that timeline is going to be based on a few factors.

3:28:29And one is getting some of the clinicians in the dispatch.

3:28:36And I don't have a timeline on that, maybe by first quarter of next year, but that's based on some other contractual things that need to be ironed out.

3:28:49Okay. Thank you.

3:28:50And through the chair, will the 2027 proposed budget include enough money to fund this new part of this new service provided by EMS or a continuation and expansion of this service provided by EMS?

3:29:09I'm sorry. I missed the first part. I apologize.

3:29:13That's okay.

3:29:14Through the chair to Councilmember, I missed the first part of your question.

3:29:16Do you plan for the 2027 budget to include enough money to pay for the expansion of the Community Crisis Response Team?

3:29:29Through the chair, Councilmember, that's a good question.

3:29:34What we're doing through the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner Malave is to see what the budget will look like, preparing a budget to make sure that it's appropriate, and then hopefully be able to present that in the 2027 ask.

3:29:49Okay. Thank you.

3:29:50And can you briefly explain how recruitment works for the Division of EMS?

3:30:00Through the chair, I'll let the Commissioner chime in.

3:30:02The Division of EMS -- well, let me back up.

3:30:07The Department of Public Safety did have a recruitment unit, which is called the Department of Public Safety Recruitment.

3:30:14Those responsibilities were placed back under the respective divisions, police, fire, and EMS.

3:30:22And the Commissioner is in the process of making sure that his unit is up and running, which they are, and going out and recruiting qualified individuals to become EMTs or paramedics.

3:30:36Through the chair to the Councilwoman.

3:30:40So currently, a recruitment staff, they go to the area schools, area paramedic programs, and EMT programs, and let them know that when we are hiring and to look out for the civil service posting, they also attend community events at schools within the Cleveland area.

3:31:08And this includes high schools, middle schoolers, so that's all part of the recruitment process.

3:31:16Thank you.

3:31:17And through the chair at CMSD schools?

3:31:21That's correct.

3:31:22And through the chair, are there any investments planned in recruitment for 2027?

3:31:31Through the chair to the Councilwoman, the major, it's not a monetary investment, but it's to possibly create a pipeline through our civilian EMT program without the promise of a position, but to train them under Cleveland EMS so that if we are, we do experience a shortage that we have individuals that we can pull from for recruitment.

3:32:04Thank you.

3:32:05And through the chair, I know you mentioned that there were eight retirees in 2026, which isn't something the divisions used to.

3:32:14Do you know how many people are planning to retire in 2027?

3:32:19Through the chair to the Councilwoman, we have about five individuals that would be eligible to retire, that's including myself.

3:32:34I hope that doesn't happen through the chair.

3:32:36But as far as if they will retire or not, that's hard to say, but we have about five to seven individuals that are eligible to retire within the division.

3:32:49They have the obligations to tell us, but they're eligible, just like the commission here, but he's not going anywhere.

3:32:54Okay, thank you.

3:32:55Good to hear.

3:32:57Can you say how many EMS employees were hired in 2026?

3:33:01How many of you hired?

3:33:02Through the chair to the Councilwoman, I don't have the exact number, but based on the previous classes, I can remember of classes.

3:33:15We've hired roughly 37 EMTs and paramedics, and we've hired roughly nine EMDs, the emergency medical dispatchers.

3:33:28And we currently have three emergency medical dispatchers and training currently.

3:33:35Okay, thank you.

3:33:40And do you have, and you can get this information if you don't have it right here at the table, how many EMS employees departed during their probationary period in 2026?

3:33:52I'm sorry, go ahead.

3:33:53Through the chair to the Councilwoman, I do not have how many departed, but for the last two classes of EMTs and paramedics, there were less than 10%.

3:34:12That left each class, so I want to say roughly about seven total for the entire year for the EMTs and paramedics.

3:34:22And it's been roughly about six for the emergency medical dispatchers.

3:34:30Okay, thank you.

3:34:31And I don't expect you to have this information here at the table, but could you also get us the demographic information for the folks who left during their probationary period?

3:34:40Okay, next question. Can you discuss the enforcement of House Bill 20, which establishes the 15-foot buffer zone around safety workers and what that looks like in real life?

3:34:56I believe it just went into effect in October? Is that right?

3:34:59I believe so.

3:35:01The question is the effects of it. Well, my hopes are that it's socialized to the general public to understand that. And then your question is about the enforcement of it.

3:35:15It makes for that. Individuals know that there has to be a 15-foot buffer for emergency first responders to operate and do their jobs. And then the enforcement aspect of it is obviously through the division of police.

3:35:33We have complaints and then take the requisite enforcement action based on the House Bill to enforce that. So right now we have not had any issues with that.

3:35:45But if we get complaints, obviously from the EMS or the Fire Division, we'll make sure that we take again the requisite enforcement actions.

3:35:51But so far we've had no complaints relative to the 15-foot buffer.

3:35:56And then can you describe where we are with EMS billing? I know last year when we discussed it, it was the first year that we went with the outside service or collection agency and we had a lot of back billing.

3:36:15So it's my understanding this is the first "normal" year. And so I'm wondering what that looks like since it's -- Through the chair to Councilwoman, we are still doing better with EMS billing through the outside agency than when we had it in house.

3:36:36And I still estimate to come in roughly about -- I want to say roughly about $20 million, $18 million to $20 million this year, which is exponentially higher than it's been in the past.

3:36:53That's fantastic. Does that go into the general fund? Through the chair?

3:36:58Through the chair, through the degree of EMS. Yes, ma'am.

3:37:04Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I apologize. I have just one more question.

3:37:08Sure. Go ahead.

3:37:09I met with you and I appreciate you meeting with me and we talked about the new potential headquarter move for EMS.

3:37:17And you described, you know, the plan for supplies. Can you briefly, you know, for the viewing public describe what that supply replenishment would look like?

3:37:30And then is there a timeline for the move? And are any -- what would -- how would special events staffing be affected by that?

3:37:44Right. That's right.

3:37:47Yeah, so yeah, that's -- through the chair to Councilwoman, yeah, that hasn't been improved.

3:37:50So I can't give you a timeline. We have to obviously get it approved and then there are some remodeling that we have to do -- a remodeling we have to do to the facility.

3:38:01The actual property and supplies. I'll let the commission into the operations of how that's going to work out.

3:38:09Through the chair to Councilwoman, we currently -- we have outfitted -- well, we have plans to outfit a specific van for supply delivery.

3:38:23And that would include having someone who is going to be dedicated to deliver supplies throughout the city for the units that need replenishment.

3:38:36And as far as special events, special events would go on the same way it goes on now.

3:38:41They would arrive to EMS headquarters, pick up their equipment, then be deployed to their special events. That's not going to change.

3:38:50Okay. Thank you.

3:38:52Thank you.

3:38:53Commissioner and Director.

3:38:54You are welcome.

3:38:55Just real quick, Chair, in terms of -- I just got news about the clinicians dispatch that that was just recently approved and there should be legislation becoming before Council to authorize that contract.

3:39:10Thank you. Councilman Starr, then you're up -- you're the last to add it up.

3:39:15No problem. I have 130, so I'll be quick.

3:39:18One thing I would just say from the recruitment standpoint, over the years, I've had the honor of partnering with the Recruitment Division Department, the staff, and over there.

3:39:29And this summer, I've seen it was not as visible within the community.

3:39:35What is going on with the Safety Department Recruitment Team?

3:39:38Why aren't they -- there's so many staff members in there.

3:39:41It seems as if there's one or two people doing the recruitment now, as opposed to years previously when there were multiple people in each area of recruitment focusing on EMS, focusing on police, focusing on on fire.

3:39:55What is going on with our actual Recruitment Team?

3:39:59Through the Chair to Councilman Starr, the respective recruitment teams have gone back to the respective divisions.

3:40:08The Division of Police, that was last year, they went back to the Division of Police.

3:40:13This year, they went back to EMS specifically, as well as fire conduct recruitment, so it was decentralized.

3:40:21It's no longer under the Department of Public Safety, so the Fire Department will have their Recruitment Unit.

3:40:27EMS will have their Recruitment Unit.

3:40:29Basically, the same individuals that were in the Recruitment Unit is now decentralized and back in their respective divisions.

3:40:38So before it became centralized, it was decentralized and it was in each division, right?

3:40:44Yes, sir.

3:40:45And then for what reason did we bring it to make it centralized?

3:40:48That was not -- that was, I believe, centralized under, I want to say, I think it was under McGrath, Director McGrath, a couple of directors ago was centralized under him.

3:41:01I'm not quite sure what his rationale and reason was that he brought them all together.

3:41:05So through the Chair, what is your reason for you not keeping it centralized and making it go back to that way?

3:41:12Well, for me, it was a couple reasons that I made the decision.

3:41:16Again, the decision was not made in the vacuum, it was with the teams and also talking with the respective division chiefs and so forth.

3:41:24But the Division of Fire for me was not necessarily a recruitment issue for me.

3:41:31The issue with the Division of Fire was a diversity.

3:41:36They don't have issues with recruiting folks.

3:41:41Their issue is having a diverse work group, minorities, females and so forth.

3:41:46So their concentration is going to be for diversity.

3:41:52The Division of Police, they were doing a robust job of recruiting folks, bringing folks in.

3:42:01The hiring event and so forth, so again, they were doing a really good job.

3:42:04So I sent them back to their respective shops.

3:42:06And then just recently, an EMS, they went back to EMS to conduct their recruitment strictly under the Wattsville Eye of Commissioner Whaler.

3:42:19Thank you for that understanding of your reasoning.

3:42:23But it's alarming to me because now we used to see the recruitment teams as a collective all in our neighborhoods, in these community events and partnering.

3:42:34Then when you send them and split them out and now they're tasked with individuals trying to get to each department to get them out of stuff,

3:42:42it's not able to get the recruitment in a way to be able to set you.

3:42:46When there used to be a point, you reach out to one person on the recruitment team, you could find every different division.

3:42:52Now you got to reach out to each division to get that recruitment person in there.

3:42:57And I just think that is not going to help us.

3:42:59And I know you just brought up some lack of diversity.

3:43:03And I know we talked earlier this year in February regarding some of my concerns.

3:43:07So are we looking to bring in another fire class?

3:43:10To the Chair, to the Councilman Starr, yes.

3:43:13When are we expected for that class to possibly start and where they are at in that process?

3:43:17Through the Chair, to the Councilman Starr, we anticipate starting the class in the first quarter of 2027.

3:43:24So the process is ongoing now.

3:43:26And then from that standpoint, the process and the policy that exists are still the same.

3:43:32Policies and recruitment is the same thing for fire as it has been.

3:43:39Through the Chair, the policies that were in existence, still are in existence. Yes, sir.

3:43:44And when were the last time we list that we, and for the fire, have we did any assessments or overview of the policy related to testing scores,

3:43:53the way people are tested, the way people are graded, the actual obstacle course and those different things.

3:44:00And also what have we done with accountability measurements to make sure that those Clevelanders are actually residents that live in Cleveland to get those extra points for the test.

3:44:10And how are we actually doing evaluation or actually checking to see if that is true?

3:44:18Through the Chair, to the Councilman Starr, really good points and questions that you're bringing up.

3:44:23The process that you're talking about is done through civil service.

3:44:27That's part of their process, the testing, because as you know, it's a civil service examination.

3:44:33Then the firefighter miles is established in the Division of Fire to make sure that's fair.

3:44:39Those things, again, are the requirements of the civil service as far as the testing, the policies, and so forth, again, are through the divisions of civil service.

3:44:50So through that standpoint, from a policy standpoint, I know you say you're bringing in another class, and I'm just going to say it on record.

3:44:57If I see another class come in here that lacks diversity, female, minority, Hispanic, or firefighters, I'm going to go on a campaign of my own.

3:45:11And my campaign is not going to be anything nice.

3:45:15We have a black mayor, a black council president, and we're figuring out all the ways that we can't figure out how to get minorities to be firefighters.

3:45:24That is unexcusable.

3:45:26That is one of the -- firefighter is one of the great careers that you can make an honest, earned living.

3:45:31And then you're telling me that there's no African-Americans, diverse community members in the community that has a desire to be a firefighter.

3:45:43And then also, I mean about the assessment of what we're doing with firefighters, because I've had people who told me 10 years ago when they tested and how they were kicked out, and they were getting denied letters after they had passed a physical, or they were talking about how they received some different type of hazing treatment in fire.

3:46:07It only shows me that we still got some issues that we have yet to vet.

3:46:14So I'm going to be looking just for your regulation from a legislative standpoint to put some policies in place and requirements to make sure that it's in our policy that the council is going to make sure that we do something different.

3:46:30But we can't keep trying to say we're going to put together these classes, and we're not being able to offer those jobs to everyone.

3:46:38People -- there doesn't make no sense that we're talking about in the fire division. We have a lack of diversity, but when we were under a consent decree in the fire, we figured out every way to be able to do what was right and diversify our fire.

3:46:54That's the only division. We don't have no problem with police. We don't have no problem with EMS.

3:46:59But then you talking about the good old boys group? Are you talking about those long-timers who've been grandfathered in? Only thing we can have is just white firefighters here as a predominantly division of the police?

3:47:15That is a problem, and that is just showing me that we have a major concern.

3:47:20So I know you said in the first quarter, that mean I got some work to do before the end of this month, because I refuse to be a member of Cleveland City Council, and we continue to graduate a predominantly all-white class of firefighters.

3:47:33And we can't diversify that, but we can diversify our police. We can diversify EMS, and we can have representation of our entire city for those two divisions, but when it comes to fire, we just can't figure it out.

3:47:45It's crazy.

3:47:46But we can figure it out when we're under a consent decree. But when we left it, as soon as the consent decree ended, we went back to our best practices, and that's been going on since the early 2000, and this is 2026.

3:47:57So I just want to make sure I put it on record to the chair, that if you come through, Director, and you're selecting, because you're at a final stop, when you go through all this vetting process, and you select in, and we have an actual selection process that goes through on, and it only telling us that only white folks is eligible or the most viewed ask.

3:48:22Mr. Chairman, can you put me down, too?

3:48:27They are the most --

3:48:28On the back end, I want to talk about this, because we were about to get ready.

3:48:32But if you're telling me that only people that are most qualified to be a firefighter is only white folks in the city of Cleveland that's predominantly black, then I know we're doing something in-house that is incorrectly done.

3:48:48And it ain't about no just test scores. It ain't about all those different things that we're doing.

3:48:53So I'm telling you, from our legislative authority, and to the chair, director, I'm writing up policy, and I'm going to legislate some changes, because it will make no sense for us to have a black mayor and a black council president, and we can't figure out how to get blacks involved in becoming a firefighter career.

3:49:09And I yield.

3:49:10Thank you.

3:49:11And Mr. Chairman, I just want to add, I won't be long.

3:49:13I just want to add to that, because we're going to have fire coming up next, right?

3:49:17We're going to have, so I'm making everybody aware, because I think everyone, because we've been here a long time, on the 28th, we will have operations review.

3:49:30We will have Department of Public Safety, Police, Fire, Animal Care and Control, and DOJ.

3:49:36And we will let the director know, based on some of the requests that were made today, we'll give you advance notification as soon as possible as to what we're going to ask of you.

3:49:47We need more, obviously, more figures on staffing levels and those kind of things.

3:49:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:49:52But I appreciate, and I look forward to talking with Councilman Starr and some of my other colleagues about his concerns as well.

3:49:58We want all of our departments to be reflective of the city.

3:50:02Right.

3:50:03That's something I'm passionate about, as all of my colleagues are.

3:50:06So I appreciate the questions that were asked today.

3:50:09You know where we're going.

3:50:11We want to see operations, but we know, based on today's line of questioning, we know we need some additional information.

3:50:18And so that's where we're at.

3:50:20So I know we all, I've got to get into a meeting at 1 o'clock.

3:50:23Real quickly, Mr. Chairman, I want to just take the opportunity to thank the commissioner for doing a good job in EMS.

3:50:30I would be, and I saw him coming through the door.

3:50:34I remember when we used to have all kinds of issues going on.

3:50:37And so I told him he's doing a good job.

3:50:39And also, Mr. Chairman, just so that my colleague, just so that the public and the audience can really fundamentally understand it from a different perspective, too,

3:50:50is that we represent populations that when we have these community meetings, it does reflect upon us in terms of being elected officials to ask these types of questions.

3:51:03And it's not asking these questions to be facetious, Mr. Chairman. It's asking these questions because we as the council as a body have declared that racism is a health issue.

3:51:16And part of the health issue is not being able to find a quality job.

3:51:20And when we talk about the fire department or we talk about these other departments, we do want to see a reflection, Mr. Chairman, where it represents all the population.

3:51:31And it's a reflection on the mayor as being a black mayor.

3:51:35It's a reflection on you, safety director as being a black safety director.

3:51:39And it's a reflection on the commissioner being a black commissioner.

3:51:42It's a reflection on Blaine Griffin being the president of Cleveland City Council.

3:51:46When we sit here at this table, we've been fighting on these issues, Mr. Mike Polinski, and you know this, almost 33 years ago.

3:51:54So it just seems like some things seem to stay baked in, and it's like one of those situations where it's institutionalized.

3:52:01So I commend my colleague on it, and I want to say to you too, Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate your leadership, and I want you to be getting mad at me.

3:52:11>> Thank you.

3:52:12>> All right, bye-bye.

3:52:13>> You get on my nerves at times, but I understand the concerns that people have around the table.

3:52:18Believe me, we all have concerns.

3:52:19We all have growing frustrations in this city today.

3:52:23Believe me when I tell you.

3:52:24So without any further ado, we'll get you what we were going to request for the other departments and divisions.

3:52:29I want to thank everyone who stayed here today at the committee through this operations review.

3:52:35Thank you very much.

3:52:36Committee stands adjourned.