2026-10-07 - Transportation and Mobility Committee

09:48Good morning, everybody. Call this meeting of Transportation Mobility Committee to order.

09:54Clerk, could you please call the roll? Present?

09:59Present.

10:04Thank you. So we have a busy agenda today. There is one piece of legislation. It pertains

10:11to the IX Center. So if you are here for the second half of the meeting, which is the portion

10:18where we'll be speaking about proponents of Burke Airport remaining as an airport, I'd

10:23guess you have at least 45 minutes before you're here. So feel free to wander and get

10:27a coffee or something. If the administration could please come forward, though, for Ordinance

10:321042-2026 by Councilmembers, Slyfe and Griffin by departmental request, an emergency ordinance

10:39authorizing the Director of Port Control to enter into an amended lease agreement with

10:43IX Center Corporation or wholly owned subsidiary or successor in interest to incorporate a

10:50payroll credit provision into the original lease. Good morning, everybody. To my colleagues,

10:56I emailed out a summary of this yesterday. There's also a hard copy in your mailboxes.

11:00I have a couple here, if you'd like, in addition to the presentation that Chief McNair and

11:05the team for the administration and the IRG will give. I will turn it over to you, Chief

11:09McNair. Good morning, and thank you to everybody for allowing us to start just a half an hour

11:14early so that we can get through all of this today.

11:17Good morning, Chairman Slyfe, members of the committee, joined here today by Austin Samarajan

11:23and Chris Samarajan, who are representative of the owner group for our Master Operator

11:29of the IX Center, as well as Jennifer Scheel, our Executive for Business Attraction for

11:35the City of Cleveland, Bryant Francis and Scott Carr from Port Control, and here today

11:42to talk about an IX Center lease extension. I think many of you may know that it was probably

11:48about a year, nine months or so ago, legislation was passed to enable potential lease extension

11:54for a deal that was moving forward. That really set in motion a lot of things in the

11:59work that we did with Brook Park to untangle this property and move it forward. And, you

12:05know, as we have continued to work with our partners who are operating the IX Center and

12:11the airport and different opportunities that are in front of us, we started looking at

12:16what is the right things that we need to do to make this building the asset that it

12:21can be for the City of Cleveland, which brings some new legislation before us. But I think

12:26starting, you know, why do we need a lease extension at the IX Center? And ultimately,

12:33I think a little bit of context, as you may recall, on the IX Center. So this was built

12:37in 1942, is the Cleveland Bomber Plant. It is a 2.2 million square foot building. It

12:44has 55 feet to 77 foot ceiling heights, 16 foot thick concrete floors, a variety of

12:52overhead bridge cranes. This was a building that was built for heavy manufacturing, and

12:57a big part of Cleveland has a 25 megawatt substation attached to it, right? And through

13:04a lot of oddities over the course of time, eventually, it became a place where Ray Park

13:09used for to bring in a variety of trade shows, the IX Indoor Amusement Park. It's, you know,

13:15a building that I think many of us have been to in terms of great many purposes. And that

13:21current lease goes through January 31st of 2039 that goes on there. And, you know, again,

13:27the trade shows are an important part of what happens in Northeast Ohio. As you know,

13:32they do have a lease extension now that runs through the next three years. But, again,

13:37how do we position this facility so that it can bring in more income tax as a city, Cleveland,

13:42high quality jobs for Clevelanders? And those aren't mutually exclusive things, right?

13:47So with that, I want to give it over to Jennifer for a minute to kind of talk about some of

13:53the work that we've been doing on the attraction front, how we view this from a national perspective,

13:58and then we'll go from there. >> Okay. So for the IX Center, we are really

14:09focusing on its ability to provide large employers, large manufacturing employers with significant

14:15machinery and equipment investment because it can handle the floor depth, can handle

14:21the large machinery and equipment. It also demonstrates commitment, right? They're not

14:25leaving soon because they're not going to be lifting up all that machinery. They aren't

14:28going to move it all and ship it all there and then move in two years. So they usually

14:32have longer leases. Additionally, we have noticed in the last two years of engaging

14:40with manufacturing employers that the time is shortening, that they want to get to market

14:50because AI is shortening everything, but so is just tech development in general. Now,

14:56I'm not saying we're targeting anyone that needs to be developing AI. It's just that

14:59time to market is shortening. So they're in a really competitive market right now,

15:05and they want to get to market in six months. And I'm talking about international developers

15:08as well. They want to get to market in six months, and if we can't get to market in

15:13six months, they move on. So the IX Center is one of our best assets to help our manufacturers

15:20meet that deadline. And we're competing with cities right now that are a little bit more

15:25nimble than us because they have deeper pockets, bigger revenue streams. And this is one of

15:33the ways that we actually have a competitive advantage is a built building with this manufacturing

15:39heritage that's heavy manufacturing. This isn't just a white box with six-inch floors.

15:45This is 12, 16-inch floors that can handle that heavy machinery, and we can get to market

15:50now. And by the way, we have the power. So these manufacturers that we're looking for

15:55are heavy power users, and that power substation is an incredible asset. And our master lessee

16:02and developer here with the ICP and IERG have done a great job in starting those load

16:06studies early so that we can sort of demonstrate to these manufacturers that we've got the

16:11power and we can scale with them. And that's the other really big competitive advantage

16:16we have in the IX Center is that they can scale and grow, and we can have multiple

16:21in 2.2 million square feet. So we're seeing companies that need 100,000 square feet, 500,000

16:27square feet, and 900,000 square feet, and we can take all of them.

16:33And I would say the other thing that we've seen is we've looked across the country.

16:37It is really interesting. So this is a city-owned facility that has a master operator. That

16:41is not unique, but there are a lot of different ways that people do this nationally. Also,

16:46as we've looked, there are some municipalities, counties that will do things like pass income

16:51tax increase specifically to raise capital to build buildings like this for the sheer

16:56effect of essentially giving them away rent free to bring in the types of large scale

17:02companies that they were looking at. Now, because FAA rules dictate that we need

17:08to get fair market value, we thought, well, how do we get creative around this and give

17:12us some flexibility in ways that enable us to write down the costs of the lease? Simultaneously,

17:21how do we enable our partners to be able to invest private capital in the building since

17:25we're not the ones that are going to be doing that? And so that necessitates a longer-term

17:30lease extension, right? So the lease extension that we're looking at is 49 years. Again,

17:36not unusual even within Cleveland. The West Side Market has a 60-year ground lease to

17:41the Cleveland Public Market Corporation. The main reason for that is that they are raising

17:45$70-plus million to invest in that facility. And many of those lending institution and

17:52tools that they utilize necessitate that longer-term lease thing. Banks and other

17:57people are looking for things that are what they call tantamount to ownership, right?

18:00This accomplishes that objective and allows our partner to make the investments necessary,

18:05but also through a creative way that we'll talk about in a little bit is going to enable

18:09us to help write down the cost of this lease to go out and get the types of companies

18:13that Jennifer was talking about that we think can be so beneficial to Cleveland.

18:17And with that, I do want to hand it over to our partners from ICP IRG to talk a little

18:22bit about who they are, what they do, and why we think that they are the right fit

18:26for this property.

18:27Here we go. Okay. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Chris Samarjan. I'm the owner

18:40of Industrial Commercial Properties. We're a partner with IRG on the IX Center, my son

18:46Austin, who is responsible for some of our leasing. ICP is basically an industrial redeveloper.

18:54We've redeveloped over 60 million square feet. Our primary markets, we're based here in

18:59Greater Cleveland. Our primary markets are Ohio, Michigan, and we have St. Louis, Missouri,

19:07Kentucky and other states, but our predominant holdings are within Ohio and the Greater

19:11Cleveland area. Some light type projects that we've done. We took the American Greetings

19:17Facility, which is over 1.6 million square feet and over 150 acres and have redeveloped

19:25that site. And I think we have over 13 companies and over 2,000 people working at that facility.

19:32We also did Randall Park Mall, which you're aware of, and that was kind of a horrible

19:38boat anchor around Greater Cleveland's neck, and we bought that property. It took us three

19:42years to acquire it all, and we had no idea but got very lucky, and we brought in Amazon

19:49and pipeline packaging and have, again, over 2,000 people working at the site, and it's

19:54been a great success. We're also in the process of right now we bought the Sherwin-Williams

20:00facility, the laboratory, and we're tearing that down, and our plan is to put new facilities

20:05there. It's nowhere near this size. It doesn't compete with this project, but we love taking

20:10older industrial buildings. We've bought several Ford plants. I think we're on our

20:14fifth Ford acquisition. We've bought at least a half dozen General Motors plants, and we've

20:19retooled those buildings to work for modern day industry. All industrial companies want

20:25to work in a very antiseptic environment. They all want hospital-like conditions, epoxy

20:32floors, bright buildings, high light level. The things that we couldn't give away 20

20:37years ago when we started buying these properties, everybody wants today. People need power.

20:42People need parking. People need infrastructure, and all the big distribution centers that

20:47you see today that are out there, they're just big boxes. Those are meant to store products.

20:52They're really not meant to build anything in of any magnitude, so to take one of those

20:57generic big boxes and put the power, and put the parking, and put the gas, it's not

21:02even ... That's the right word. It's not even that feasible. Most of these projects

21:07that you see are greenfield type projects. They take years to come out of the ground,

21:12and candidly, the IX Center is perfect for it. God bless Ray Park and what their family

21:18did at the site. I think it was fantastic for a while while Cleveland didn't need something

21:22like this to be manufacturing, but today, it's perfect. You couldn't build a building

21:27like this today. What we'd like to do, we haven't had mortgageability on the site.

21:32We have over 30 million of cash invested today, which is very unusual for a commercial

21:37transaction that you don't have any debt. We need to make the next level of investment

21:42to make this thing perfect. Today, it looks like the old IX Center, both in and out.

21:46It can't look like that. It's got to look like somebody just landed a spaceship in Cleveland.

21:51I'm not trying to play around with any of the issues. Anyways, so we're very excited.

21:58We think it's a great project. We need a few things to get done, but we've had more

22:02million square foot showings in the last 12 months than I've had in a 30 year career.

22:08That's what's happening. Again, back in the day, nobody really wanted these big infrastructure

22:13pieces today, and industry was shrinking in the Midwest. We were buying these facilities

22:19as we had less of an industrial base. Today, we're actually getting European manufacturers

22:25in expansion within the country, and they need these types of buildings. So now's the

22:29time we've kept the shows just on a very temporary basis to try to kind of bridge

22:34the community and not turn off that positive momentum. At the same time, we have flexibility

22:40with the shows. So as we put these industrial companies in the building, the shows will

22:44adjust, and ultimately, the shows won't be at the site. Sorry to say. Any questions for us?

22:51Well, we'll hold that before we get through the...

22:52Good. Sure.

22:53Do you want to talk about your national tenant network?

22:58Yeah. I mean, we have from Fortune 50 to a mom and pop watch supply company. We have

23:06a beautiful mutual fund of national corporations that are tenants of ours. We work very closely

23:12with the manufacturers. We don't expect them. We actually have a prospect that we're working

23:17with Jennifer and Tom and the team right now. They're a manufacturer from the West

23:22Coast. We're actually working very closely with them to lay them out in the building.

23:27We're not looking for them to solve their own problems. We're in there with them hand

23:30in hand trying to make sure that the building works and lay them out that's the most efficient.

23:36Because it's easy to start with a clean piece of paper. It's more challenging to lay yourselves

23:43out in existing buildings if you don't know the capabilities of the buildings. Again,

23:49this is the American Greeting Project. Basically, American Greetings Left went to West Lake

23:53Ohio and subsequently we have 13 businesses here and we built a new facility on the extra

24:00land.

24:02Go ahead.

24:04All right. So I want to talk through, again, we have been discussing this with Chris and

24:10their team for some time, some of the deal points of the framework that we're putting

24:14in place for the extension. Then I want to talk through with the Legislative Authority

24:174, which is that financial incentive for the lease which goes on. So a couple of the

24:24key frameworks there, again, just to be clear, ICP IRG, the company that is the operator

24:30here has a current lease that lasts for the next 12 years and three months, right, that

24:35they could operate with today. The new lease that we're talking about would be a 49-year

24:41lease extension, but that would start from the time of execution. So it doesn't come

24:45at the end of the 12-plus years, right, it would start upon execution that goes on.

24:51As a part of this, and not speaking for Director Francis or his team, but very important to

24:58the airport is that there is roughly 50 acres of land that you can see there that is kind

25:03of to, I think that is the west of the IAC center that would be given up, that is in

25:08the current leasehold that would come back to the airport. Again, still determining exactly

25:12where that boundary line is and where that falls might actually be closer to 47 acres,

25:16but it's a substantial piece of land for a lockdown airport and I know that they have

25:21a lot of ideas of how that might be able to be utilized, what's in there. Also, again,

25:28just important consideration and a reminder, because this facility is actually owned by

25:33port control and FAA money was used to help acquire it, right, all the leasehold interest,

25:40rent goes to the airport on this. Also, there is a provision that we are working through

25:46in here that gives DPC early termination rights on the property. So, important again, this

25:54is a facility that needs to be operated that we are talking to large-scale tenants, so

25:58for a period of a minimum of 10 years, they would not be able to exercise that, but after

26:03which if there is ever a point that the airport feels that they need this property, right,

26:08there is a mechanism that four years notice, right, it has to be a part of the airline

26:13master plan, but we're making sure that we're not ever going to have a situation like existed

26:18with the IX Center 30 years ago. There is a well-defined pathway of how we would acquire

26:24that property that goes through. Also, some of the things that we have talked

26:29through, and again, these are kind of agreed to in basic principle, though we're obviously

26:34working through a lot of language and making sure everyone is comfortable with it. The

26:39preferred industries clause, as we explained to our partners, was important to us for

26:44a couple of reasons. One, we now have real skin in the game with the payment that goes

26:49to Brook Park, right, and so we need to ensure that we are getting high-quality, high-payroll

26:56tenants that come through here, and so trying to ensure that we have a fail safe against

27:02a very low-payroll kind of, we'll say, warehouse storage type operator that doesn't help us

27:10pay our bills, right, that's not why we went through all this. So really looking at T-Neo,

27:15what are the core industries in Northeast Ohio that are growing, people that are making

27:20things, companies that typically have higher payrolls. We also don't want to constrain

27:23our partner, so trying to be pretty broad here, but there are preferred industries

27:28related to manufacturing and advanced manufacturing, right, aerospace and defense, which is growing

27:34rapidly in Northeast Ohio. I believe throughout, what's the stat, Jennifer? It's like 80%

27:41of the supply chain in aerospace and defense domestically. The Cleveland area produces

27:53components that fill 80% of that supply chain. So it is a significant part of it, and it's

27:59a growing part of our economy, right? So looking to capitalize on that, obviously,

28:05aircraft manufacturing, ground vehicle components manufacturing, these are all things that

28:08the building was built for, aviation maintenance, MROs that fit in with the airport, microelectronics,

28:15semiconductors, again, these are core Northeast Ohio industries that are growing, these are

28:19people that make things, these are companies that typically come with higher paying jobs,

28:24which is good for Clevelanders, right? Other industries, and there are a variety of reasons

28:30why they may be a good fit. We're very open to, we're just looking for a level of sign-off

28:37on there that would be administrative approval to move those through quickly. The master

28:46operator cannot assign the master lease to this, right? Part of this was happened when

28:51we just kind of found out that ICP, no offense ICP, I think this is working out very well,

28:56but there was no knowledge to the city because that was not included in the lease, so that

28:59is something that we're talking about. Also something that I know we've talked about

29:03a great deal with this body. On-premise parking is limited to the tenants within the building

29:11and events that are happening on that property. Any other parking that would take place there

29:16cannot happen without the express written consent of the City of Cleveland through

29:20the form of a license agreement, so if there is a facility built in the area and people

29:26would want parking, if that is going to happen, that would be a decision that is made by

29:29the City of Cleveland, not by others, right? Then as we get into some of the lease incentives,

29:37and again, this is where we started to get a little bit creative, right? We looked at

29:43what are the types of facilities around the country that are getting the types of tenants

29:47that we want to see here. Again, I mentioned that there are a variety of municipalities

29:52and counties that own building like this. They probably weren't acquired by FAA dollars.

29:57They have the ability to send the rent, therefore, leases that can go on. That's not quite the

30:03reality here. Then we did find a variety of examples throughout the country of places

30:09that are either municipal or county-owned facilities that have quality master operators

30:14that do the day-to-day work and can help fill the building. How do we incentivize

30:18them to go out and get these high payroll clients that we want? There are lots of things

30:24around payroll credits, which is a path we went on. There are some people that look at

30:28job credits. There are some people that have bonuses for square footage filled, but we

30:33thought this was the easiest way for us to get what we wanted, which is high payroll,

30:40high job clients coming into this building, which is good for everyone. Walking through

30:45this in a way, trying to make this as simple as possible, so this is just in a vacuum.

30:50This is what you see in the legislation, right? Through the Brook Park deal, which we'll

30:56talk about in a little bit, we have created this subfund, fund 60 SF001, where all revenues

31:03from the IX Center and all revenues from the Emerald Park, right? We are going to give

31:10payroll credits based on the total payroll for the entire DIX Center. It doesn't matter

31:16if there are one tenant in there or 12. This is based on the total payroll in the full

31:22building. If they are under $25 million in total payroll, there is no credit. They will

31:28pay the full lease rate, and again, that lease has to be fair market value based on

31:35an appraisal that is being done by the airport. If the payroll of companies adds up to between

31:41$25 million and just under $50 million, we will reduce the total rent that they have

31:48to pay to the airport by 10%. That will be made up by the income taxes that come in.

31:55If it is between $50 and $75 million, that is a 15% reduction in rent. If they achieve

32:02$75 plus million or more of payroll in the building, we will reduce the rent by 20%.

32:08Now you're going to start to see what that looks like in practicality, right? So this

32:13is, again, looking at it just in a vacuum without all the other parts. We'll get to

32:17that. And we have based this on a hypothetical $2 million in rent. That number didn't come

32:25out of thin air, right? There was an appraisal that was done a couple of years ago for this,

32:30and it will say, "Well, it was around $2 million." So for purposes of conversation,

32:34this is somewhat realistic, right? So if the master operator owes $2 million in rent

32:42to the airport, right, again, if it's under $25 million, there is no rent credit. Depending

32:50on the size of the companies and payrolls in there, we would get somewhere between

32:55$0 and $625,000 in income taxes coming in. Again, that does not include property taxes,

33:01all those such things. We'll show you that in another slide. If they are between $25

33:06and $50 million, right, they get a 10 percent rent credit. That amounts to about $200,000,

33:14which means with the income tax that we would collect on that level, we would end up a

33:19net positive, even with the rent credit, of somewhere between $425,000 and $1.05 million

33:26in income taxes. Again, as you continue to step up at that $50,000 to $75,000, that

33:32would translate to 15 percent off or a roughly $300,000 rent credit on an annualized basis.

33:39Again, even with that credit being taken out, that would come to a net positive of

33:44between $950,000 and $1.575 million. And then the last one, if we achieve $75 plus

33:52million dollars or more in payroll, that's a 20 percent credit, again, roughly $400,000,

33:58net positive $1.475 million that is flowing in. Again, in terms of protections, if the

34:06payroll isn't there, there is no credit, right? This is actually one of the advantages of

34:11having your taxing agency kind of a part of the city, right? These are just real numbers

34:16that we see that come in. All these monies, because of the Brook Park deal, are kind

34:20of going into this sub-fund holding tank, where they're easy to see. So again, if they

34:24don't reach the threshold, there is no credit, so we're protected there. But again, full

34:30transparency here, this does not take into account the Brook Park deal that we did.

34:34So what does this start to look like? And again, as a quick reminder on the settlement

34:38agreement and the relevant component to that, you may recall there is that area up top

34:45to the pink, that is the Emerald Park former Joint Economic Development Zone Agreement,

34:51where we were splitting taxes 50/50 with Brook Park. That has been abolished. So we were

34:58each getting $305,000. Again, because we now have that in totality, there's 40 acres of

35:03developable land there. Again, if you look at the blue area, that is the IX Center property.

35:09Again, we are abolishing tax sharing there. Because of the agreement with Brook Park,

35:15we will now collect all revenues that come in that property. Reminder, we will talk

35:19about this again in the next couple of slides. In 2024, we made a total of $228,000 on that

35:27property. But both of those end tax sharing those. We are now getting all that revenue.

35:33However, what we always have to remember is that for the next 33 years, we must pay

35:39Brook Park $650,000. And I always say, guys, this is just math. The math has to make sense.

35:47We have to look at it. We have to know what's coming in, what we owe. And you know, you

35:52can see what we were making there before. So we should always be making more money

35:55than we were before, even with the payment we have to go. And we always want to have

35:59more high quality jobs for Clevelanders, right? So what does that actually look like?

36:06And I've tried to do my best little visual representation here. I'm very proud of myself

36:12for using Emerald City for the Emerald Parkway as an icon. I thought that was kind of fun.

36:19But you can see up at the top there, that square, that is representative of the IX center.

36:24I divided it into four quadrants, mainly because right now the trade shows occupy

36:30500,000 square feet, right, which is about a quarter of the building. If you see in

36:35that box, again, in 2024, all revenues that the city generated, that was revenues from

36:41the trade shows, that was what we got out of the parking, that was property taxes, everything.

36:46City of Cleveland made $228,000. If the old Brook Park deal, now with the new Brook Park

36:52deal, if we just use those 2024 numbers, that means we're immediately making $475,000,

36:58right? So we've walked through a different level of scenarios on here. So this one will

37:03say there's $20 million of payroll in the whole building, right? $20 million of payroll

37:09just translates to about $500,000 of income taxes, which is why you can see the line

37:15from the IX center. That means there's now $975,000 of revenue that is coming out of

37:21that facility. Again, if we go up to Emerald Parkway, prior to the, you know, the tax

37:27sharing of Brook Park, we were only getting $305,000. Now, great news, we are getting

37:33610,000, right, because we get all of that. So both of those come down. All the revenue

37:39from IX, all the revenue from Emerald Parkway are going into the sub fund. So you can see

37:44in there, we're getting $475,000 roughly from the trade shows. There would be about

37:49$500,000 in new income taxes based on the payroll. That does not take into account anything

37:57being built on the 50 acres adjacent to this. If and when things are built there, that

38:01will mean more revenues, but we're being conservative. We're not showing that, right?

38:07$10,000 coming from Emerald Parkway, right? We know that that's coming in there. That

38:11does not take into account anything being built on the 40 acres adjacent to there.

38:16If and when anything is built there, that will mean more money coming in, which means

38:20there's a total of about $1.7 million of revenue in this scenario. And again, it's

38:26below the threshold. So there is no rent credit whatsoever. Thank you very much for

38:30doing your job. We've got some good tenants in there. It's working. We still owe Brook

38:36Park $650,000. That means we are up $935,000, right? Again, if you go back to that previous

38:45slide, we made $228,000 on the IX Center in 24 years. So again, this deal works. This

38:55is a $35 million payroll scenario. So all things are the same. And you can see that's

39:01about $875,000 in income taxes and the new payroll that comes in. You know, again, we're

39:07showing it in one quadrant because, like, not all these companies are coming in looking

39:11for 1.5 million square feet right away, right? I think we have a scenario where somebody

39:16could come in starting with 500,000 square feet and grow or bring other tenants, right?

39:21So -- but again, in this scenario, there's $35 million of total payroll. That's $1.35

39:28million of total revenue from the IX paired with the Emerald Parkway. But what you're

39:33going to see in this one for the first time is that we are using revenues that are coming

39:37in to this sub-fund to keep the airport whole because we have to, because of the FAA, right?

39:45They have to receive fair market value for the lease. So we're sending those $200,000

39:49in credits up to the airport. That reduces the amount of rent that ICP has to pay, which

39:56enables them to make better deals to get the types of tenants that we want to come

39:59in here, right? And in that scenario, we're net positive of $1.1 million. Again, we made

40:06$228,000 in total. Still not showing anything on the 50 acres either. Still not showing

40:11-- yes. Something's going to pop. Correct, correct. And the more high quality tenants

40:16that we can put in there, the more marketable that land has become. And frankly, we know

40:20talking with the airport team, they've already had multiple conversations with folks that

40:24are looking at how they could utilize that land, right? We get up to $60 million in payroll.

40:30Now you're seeing that's $1.975 million in total revenue for the IX Center, right? So

40:36even with a $300,000 rent credit that goes in with the $650,000 to book park, that's

40:44$1.635 million. And here's an $80 million payroll scenario. This would end up with

40:54a net positive of over $2 million. And I will read it again. In 2024, we made $228,000

41:01on this facility. And this is not pie in the sky, right? Like we're having real conversations

41:08right now with a company that could land in here and doesn't even fill up the entirety

41:14of the facility, right? And I always keep coming back to you, like when we end up long

41:20from now, when all this is said and done, and people analyze all the saga that went

41:25on between the IX Center and the ins and outs of this, it came down to we traded NASA Glenn,

41:32which currently has $3.5 million in income taxes coming into the city of Brook Park

41:37for this facility, right? And it is incumbent upon us to set this facility up for success

41:45in a way that we can provide high quality jobs for Clevelanders, and that the city

41:49of Cleveland can financially benefit from that, right? And what we are trying to do

41:54is provide the tools to our master operator so that they can, A, make the investments

41:59they need to make this a highly attractive facility that can look very different from

42:03the way it looks today, but also so that we have a mechanism that when the right tenants

42:09are out there, it allows them to write down the cost of the lease, right, which is a

42:14huge piece of the tool that goes on to get those tenants here.

42:18Let's be clear. That's going to go to the, even though it's a credit off rent, that

42:22gets passed through to a reduction to the tenant. That's the incentive. It's not coming

42:28to us. I mean, it's reducing our cost, but goes to them.

42:32And the last thing that I will say, again, full transparency, I've had this conversation

42:36with several of you. Does this mean that we might not otherwise incentivize a potential

42:41tenant? No, we might incentivize a potential tenant, but this is the math we need to show

42:47you, right? Every deal that we would bring forward for an individual company, if we are

42:52offering them other incentives, we need to show not just here is the incentive for that

42:58company, but what does that do to the dollars that we're collecting? What does that mean

43:02to the monies that we owe to Brooke Park? Where are we at with any development that

43:07may occur in these undeveloped lands, right? But we've tried to get creative to solve

43:13a problem of how do we become more nationally competitive with large scale tenants in here

43:21through kind of a creative financial incentive that, again, we have the right and a good

43:25partner in this, but again, solves a problem, can move this forward and have tried to put

43:30the right checks and balances in at several levels that protect the city of Cleveland

43:35and protect our finances. That's it. I'll leave that up there.

43:43Okay. Thank you. So for those who joined as the presentation began, we have this piece

43:49of legislation and then we are pivoting over to the presentation about Burke Airport.

43:54So it's a dense day. So what I'm going to do is we're going to try to stick to ten

43:58minutes each on this. I will begin and hold myself to that. And then I have Councilman

44:03Jones, if you'd like to go next, followed by Councilman Polencic and start shouting

44:08out to me if you'd like to be on the list. The things that I would like to go over as

44:12I see them are, and frankly, as we've dealt with the Brooke Park settlement and various

44:19other things in and around the airport, I think it's become very clear to everybody

44:22that the city of Cleveland in the '90s negotiated these agreements that were very disadvantageous

44:28to the city of Cleveland, and we perhaps did that intentionally under this assumption that

44:33it was all going to be moot in five to ten years because we would build a runway. And

44:37when we didn't build the runway, we have this albatross that we are now having to unravel.

44:46So as I see it, some key components that are being brought to the table that are more

44:50appealing than what we have right now are termination rights. We have no termination

44:55rights in the existing contract that last through 2039. When it comes to assigning,

45:01basically what happened, and again, welcome to the table. Nothing personal. This is a

45:05great arranged marriage. But Park, Ohio, who was the longtime operator of the IX Center,

45:11the previous owner that we bought the facility from, assigned the lease to ICP IRG without

45:18needing any not just authorization but communication to the city of Cleveland. We basically were

45:24told on a Monday that we had a new operator. This prevents that from happening going forward

45:29and allows us to have a more oversight of the building that we own, the city of Cleveland

45:36taxpayers own. The other thing that I'd like for you to comment on a little bit more because

45:40I know there's been a lot of anxiety around the future Brown Stadium, across the highway.

45:47Could you go back to the point about parking for offsite parking? Whomever that is, because

45:54you may not know about Fairview Hospital actually parks at the IX Center right now because

45:58there's not enough parking at the campus in Cam's Corner. So it's not exclusively

46:02the Browns. But if there were an interest in this being a parking site for Browns games,

46:11how would that work? And how would the revenues work if it were approved?

46:16So through the chair, so again, language that we're working on that's still being refined,

46:21right as we go through it, we're on premise parking is limited to the tenants of the property

46:26and events that are being held at the property. Anything outside of that can't happen without

46:31express written consent of the city of Cleveland through a license agreement. That is not

46:36unique to how the city of Cleveland handles these things. We actually have license agreements

46:41that we utilize. You mentioned the Cleveland Clinic. The Cleveland Clinic has used the

46:45municipal lot on several occasions. We enter into a license agreement. There's a payment

46:49for that. They move along. I think great example of Fairview Hospital. Those are the

46:55types of tenants that we want to help with there. So there is an opportunity. I think

46:59if somebody approaches our master operator, they bring it to the city. Again, we have

47:04a process for this. We've done it before. If there is a dome facility that is built

47:08across the street, again, if they want to bring to us that people want to have parking

47:13there, that is a conversation that we can have. At that point, the city of Cleveland

47:18would have the ability to enter into a license agreement. So any price structure thing would

47:22be up to the city of Cleveland. >> Go ahead. Into the microphone, please,

47:27just for the science at all. >> Yes. The other thing is we are going

47:30to have the shows there now. We're talking about something maybe in what, three to five

47:34years from now that you would contemplate. And candidly, by giving the 47 acres back,

47:40we're not going to have a lot of excess parking because the manufacturers on site are going

47:44to be needing it. So I don't really see it as a practical issue in your, whenever that

47:50thing comes out of the ground, I just, the sites being adjusted accordingly.

47:56>> Sure. And thank you. I think that's a great point because ultimately this property

48:01and its needs come first. >> And thank you. And I think many of us

48:07would be, are happy to hear that optimism. But for sake of discussion, let's just like,

48:13assume for a second that there were a request for this to be Browns parking. What I am

48:20hearing from you, Chief, is not, is that, well, two things. One, we would be able through

48:24that license to negotiate the economics of whatever that would be, one. And two, we would

48:30receive the net proceeds from all of that in a way that prior to the passage of the

48:362026 Brook Park settlement, we would not have that money, would have actually all gone

48:40to Brook Park now. So whether you want it or not, at least if you don't like it, at

48:45least we get the revenue from it. Is that a way to characterize it?

48:48>> That is accurate and also accurate through the very strange tax sharing arraignment that

48:53was in place. All parking proceeds went to Brook Park previous to the settlement agreement.

48:59>> Thank you. The other thing that I recognize through this, and to use an anecdote that's

49:06entirely separate from the IX center, because, so this is not the only property the city

49:12of Cleveland owns that is tied up with FAA dollars because of how they were acquired.

49:17I was approached by an athletic group looking at vacant land near the airport for a potential

49:23athletic facility. This is to my colleagues. And they were looking for 10 acres near the

49:27airport. And because the FAA must approve the appraisal, it came down, I think it was

49:34about $225,000 per acre. And they wanted 10 acres. And they looked at me and they said,

49:41we could get 10 acres in Avon for $225,000. In what world would we pay that for an athletic

49:48facility in Cleveland near the airport? We don't care that it's near the airport. We

49:52care that it's developed or that it's vacant land. And I use that to demonstrate what

49:57I see is that the IX center is an industrial facility owned by an airport, but it's not

50:03really an airport facility. And what I've observed over the years is that the FAA approved

50:11appraisals treat it as an airport facility and appraise it as such in comparison to

50:17airports across the country and not in comparison to the local Cleveland market. So we're talking

50:23a lot about how the IX center is this gem across the country, but we're also, it exists

50:29within a localized real estate market. And because the FAA doesn't allow us to negotiate

50:36rent to attract tenants in the same way that say the Ford plan in Walton Hills could because

50:41it's not tied up by the FAA, we get people basically laughing in our face at what we

50:45want to charge for rent because they can get more for less somewhere else. It's an

50:51obstacle that we have to overcome. And the rent credit achieves two things. It allows

50:57us to begin to be more meeting the market in a way that can actually land end users

51:04without having to take that income stream away from the airport because frankly we cannot.

51:10It would be a violation of the FAA to reduce the money coming to the airport. But recognizing

51:16that in the peak scenario, 80% of the rent is still paid by the operator and the operator's

51:24sub tenants and a maximum of 20% is paid for through the general fund. However, the general

51:32fund still nets a very significant increase than it we have seen in years past is why

51:39I do find this deal intriguing. I know it's complex and if for those who did come in,

51:45I did do a kind of my own little write up of all of this that I've emailed and put

51:48into your inboxes to try to lay out the facts as I see them. But the big thing that I really

51:54want to hammer home to the audience is the fact that the rents are essentially dictated

52:03by the FAA is a challenge in attracting investment. And I agree as a former industrial site selector,

52:12everybody wants a building. Everybody wants to move in tomorrow. The IX Center offers

52:16that opportunity, but it doesn't currently offer that opportunity at a price point that's

52:21actually going to get people in. We've got to solve for that. I don't know if you have

52:23any quick comment on that before I turn it over to Councilman Jones. I think you're spot

52:31on. You have an industrial facility sitting very tight inside the airport and you got

52:36to mentally separate that and get it into the marketplace. And I think this structure

52:40helps us do that. Thank you. Councilman Jones, would you like to go next or later? I will

52:48do 10 minutes everybody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to sit back on this one. There's

52:53a lot of information to go through and just in the presentation that was made by the

52:58distinguished lady earlier. And then the presentation that has been made here. And I want to kind

53:04of like hear what my colleagues have to say on this. I kind of got an ideal of the deal.

53:09It's a sweetheart deal. And want to see what else is going to be said before I ask my

53:15questions. Sure thing. So I will go to Councilman Palacic followed by Councilman Casey. Thank

53:20you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, my colleagues and to the presenters and the administration.

53:26What is the difference between ICP and IRG? ICP is a company wholly owned by me and IRG

53:34is a company wholly owned by my partner Stuart Litter. And they have the lease on the IAC

53:40Center. Collectively. It's a joint venture. So the proposal that is before us is to extend

53:47the lease 49 years. At present, who maintains the building? We do. So is it a triple net

53:56analysis? Yes. Which I think is not characterized in any of the numbers that you see. Well,

54:01I want to make sure so I have a better understanding. So you maintain the structure. And at present,

54:08the building is 2.2 million square feet. That's a gross square footage. The footprint

54:13of the building is 1.2 million square feet. Then there's a 600,000, I'm sorry, 400,000

54:20square foot second floor. And then the balance is lower level basement. Just to be factual.

54:27Okay. So of the whatever square footage you've just outlined, what is leased up right now?

54:34The only thing that's leased right now is the shows operate in a 400,000 to 500,000

54:40square foot footprint. And then there's a storage company, kind of a short term overflow

54:45warehouse in 150,000. So who has the lease for the shows now? Well, we have the company.

54:55Basically we lease it and then an operator operates the show. Those revenues come to

55:02us. Okay. So the 500 square feet where the shows are at present and you vindicated what

55:12should go on for another three years. You are, in essence, you are the tenant for that

55:19500. That is correct. Okay. So there's nobody outside that has that. No. Okay. And you

55:25indicate again that after three years, the shows would go by. Well, let me restate that.

55:29Is there a separate tenant now or not? With the new situation, is there a separate tenant?

55:34Yeah, the same operator. Historically, we had the lease. Now there is a new operator,

55:40same operator, different company with the lease. And who is that? Do we know? Do we

55:45know who that is? Yeah. You can't tell us now who that is? Okay. Yes. In addition,

55:55we do have a termination option on that with a very quick termination so they can be out

56:01in about six months, I believe. So we can do our manufacturing. Okay. So there was

56:07legislation before which there was supposed to be an operator going in there. Nobody

56:15would tell us at the table who they were. That's what prompted myself to vote against

56:20the legislation. Got it. I wasn't going to vote for a stealth company. No, of course

56:26not. Okay. And so, so again, we were told all these grand things were going to happen

56:33and it didn't happen. So here we are now. You want a 49 year lease extension on top

56:40of what you have already? I think that's a total of 49 years, am I correct? Yes. Yes.

56:45But we have no indication of who might go in there. Well, no, this is, first of all,

56:51we do this all over. Okay. You have to prep. I'm talking about an industrial conversion.

56:55The shows are temporary. Oh, I understand. Okay. Just to be clear. And again, that shows

57:00can last for three years. The shows could last for six months. But we thought it was

57:05in the best interest of the community to keep the shows alive while we were getting the

57:10building prepped for industrial companies. We're working with a real manufacturer right

57:14now out of California that would start in maybe 400,000 square feet and potentially

57:19take up to 900,000 square feet. We met with the CEO. They've been on site. They've met

57:24with Jobs Ohio. They've met with the part of the team here. And I mean, they're a real

57:30company doing real planning. We had a showing last week or earlier this week. Okay. Yeah.

57:35Last week for how much? For 500,000 square feet. We have to get that building back in

57:41the game right now. It's okay. Ray Park's IX center. I was here. So I'm very much aware

57:48of what we went through at the time. Through the chair, if I may also in that I do think

57:55that that is an important thing that you pointed out. We are not doing this on the auspices

58:02of one tenant. There's a great tenant they're all working towards. But like we are trying

58:06to set the building up for long term success. And through a lot of conversation, I think

58:12that came down to two pieces. Really one is mortgage ability, which allows our operator

58:19to make substantial investments in the property. The second part of which this lease extension

58:26gives both the city real protections that we don't currently have and simultaneously

58:34gives incentives to the operator to go out and get the types of tenants that we want

58:39to see, whoever they need. Okay. But again, 49 years is a heavy lift. Okay. And so you

58:48made the comparison with the West Side Market. West Side Market, obviously we own it, but

58:54we're also dealing with a nonprofit group. And the reason why we gave them that extension

59:00is because we wanted to be guaranteed there'd be a market there for the foreseeable future.

59:06That was the action we took. I don't see any comparison with this site from the standpoint

59:15of comparing it to the West Side Market. Well, maybe not in a micro level, no, but

59:18macro. Think about General Motors. If they're going to come lay down on a site and put

59:26all their capital equipment, do they want to know that somebody isn't going to be there?

59:30And by the way, 49 year leases, we own the former Emory Air Freight facility at the

59:34Dayton International Airport. They all do it. It's the only way to get number one mortgage

59:39ability, which is great for us in the short term, but you're not going to get a real company

59:43to come in and make the commitment if they think that all of a sudden that facility

59:46could go back to them. So it's really twofold. It's showing the marketplace that you want

59:52this building to be leased by industrial companies. So there's one important point that I also

59:59want to add there.

1:00:00I hear you and you're right on the nonprofit status, but there is a common through line there.

1:00:05So yes, the Westside Market, that lease goes to a nonprofit corporation. Their mission is

1:00:10the betterment of the Westside Market, keeping it there. Because they're a nonprofit, they're

1:00:16able to raise the 70 plus million dollars they're putting into that through a variety

1:00:19of different sources. Philanthropy, right? Like there's things that they're able to do

1:00:24to bring that money to bear. Philanthropy is not going to invest in a manufacturing

1:00:28center by the airport. And that requires, unless the city of Cleveland wants to put

1:00:34it forward, private capital will come in. And for the operators to go to banks or other

1:00:40lenders to bring in that type of private capital to invest, the similarity is that either way,

1:00:47if you want to get that type of capital put into your facility, you need a longer-term

1:00:52lease. Okay. You indicated about the outside parking use. That would be controlled. There

1:01:01would have to be any additional outside vendor operator business that wanted to utilize the

1:01:07parking within, supposedly within this lease document, is that you'd have to get the approval

1:01:14of the city. Is that approval of the administration or approval of city council?

1:01:20So through the chair to Councilman Polentic, again, there is a process for this that currently

1:01:24exists that exists within the administration, right? License agreements, and that is how

1:01:28we've handled all standard parking agreements on city-owned property.

1:01:32Okay. Well, I would raise that with the chair because I believe the council should have

1:01:38input into that part of it. Let me just touch on a few other points here. The rent that

1:01:45is being paid now, assuming goes to port, but I still want to call port control. What

1:01:50is the amount being paid right now on the present lease?

1:02:00Through the chair to the council member, it's $2.7 million in the current fiscal year.

1:02:05Per year? That's correct, $2.7 million.

1:02:10And the occupant is current with their rent? That is correct.

1:02:14Okay. Plus, we pay 100% of the operating expenses

1:02:18at the site, which is dramatically more. Right. Obviously, the IX Center is an iconic

1:02:25building, and it's been indicated by others, including you, that you cannot duplicate

1:02:30this building. I was one of the members of the body at the time that was opposed to

1:02:35the demolition of IX Center, because I always thought it was just something, the largest

1:02:42building between New York and Chicago. And so to eliminate it, because I was here through

1:02:47all those discussions, God knows, 20-plus years ago, 25 years ago. So do we want it

1:02:54occupied? Yes. Do we want it utilized? Yes. Do we want businesses in there? Of course

1:02:59we do. I'm going to have to weigh what's being proposed, because again, I'm going

1:03:04back to the previous legislation. We were told this, this, this, and it didn't happen.

1:03:13It did not happen. So again, I can go back to Mr. Chairman and my colleagues. The 49-year

1:03:19lift is something that I have to figure out myself. So with the rent at 2.2, what would

1:03:28be the new rent to the administration? Through the chair to the council member, just a quick

1:03:39point of clarification. Yes. The current rent is 2.7 million. 2.7 million. Okay. What

1:03:43would be the new rent? The new rent would be based on appraisal. We just received that

1:03:47appraisal and are currently reviewing it. So we don't have that number today, but we

1:03:51are working through the appraisal to establish that. But you can tell us it's not going

1:03:56to drop below 2.7, correct? We do not anticipate it would drop below 2.7 for the totality

1:04:02of the site. However, since we are pulling out 47 acres, the rent will probably be decreased

1:04:09below 2.7, but that will account for the additional acreage that's coming back to

1:04:13the airport. Okay. But you can't give us that figure today. I don't have that today.

1:04:18It's not finalized. We're still working through it. Well, I'm hoping before it gets the finance,

1:04:22we're going to have that number. Okay. And my last, I don't know how much time I have

1:04:27left, Mr. Chairman. Okay. I just want to, okay, to the, to the gentleman here. Do you,

1:04:32you don't have the former Gould plant off Euclid Avenue, do you? Or the former TRW plant

1:04:39off of, um, in the Northeast side of the city as well? The only TRW plant we have

1:04:45is the one on Euclid Avenue, not the one on Redwood that I think you're talking about.

1:04:50Right. No. And ours is full with major manufacturers. Okay. But you don't have the former Gould

1:04:57Porpedo plant. No, I do not. 17,000 St. Clair? Yeah. No, the one behind it. No, we do. Okay.

1:05:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Councilman Casey followed by, uh, Davison Starr. Thank

1:05:10you, Mr. Chairman. He told me Starr. Okay. Nevermind. Not Starr. He's a star's afraid

1:05:18of it. Councilman Casey, Mr. Chairman, um, to, uh, our friends over at the airport,

1:05:27uh, first of all, Mr. Chairman, to the director, are you good? Yeah. This is a piece of legislation

1:05:35extending the lease, the current lease. I don't know, at least I haven't seen a copy

1:05:42of the lease and I don't know if the chairman has seen a copy of the lease, but are you

1:05:46asking the council to extend the lease that we haven't seen? Through, through the, uh,

1:05:57chair to councilman Casey, I have, I'll ask my colleagues over here, have we shared the

1:06:02existing IX on our lease council? I believe that we have in the past, um, we have a copy

1:06:08of it and be happy to share it again. All right. So if you could get that to the clerk

1:06:13so that we can take a look at it, because I'm not comfortable voting on a piece of legislation

1:06:18that extends a lease that I haven't seen the lease. Um, none of the rent, Mr. Chairman,

1:06:25to the director, um, benefits the city's general fund then, right? All the rent money

1:06:30goes to the airport. Correct? So through the chair to councilman Casey, I believe the sub

1:06:36fund is technically a part of the general fund, right? But that sub fund is directed

1:06:40specifically for the airport. Do you know the answer to that? I think, I think if I

1:06:50could, if I could try to tag in, cause I think I understand the question. Rent goes

1:06:54to the airport, income tax comes at the general fund under this arrangement, a portion of

1:06:59the rent to the airport could come from the general fund proceeds, but the totality of

1:07:05the rent still goes to the airport. The income tax comes to the sub fund with most of it

1:07:10still being available for city service is my understanding. And that is also the place.

1:07:15And the reason that there is a separate sub fund created out of that is because it acts

1:07:19almost as a holding tank because we need to pay Brooke park. My understanding through

1:07:23finance is that this is a part of the general fund. Okay. So Mr. Chairman, to the director,

1:07:27so the income tax that comes through goes to the sub fund for the general and for the

1:07:34general fund, none of the rent proceeds benefit the general fund. That is correct. All right.

1:07:43Mr. Chairman, to our Austin and Chris, our friends over at ICG, I think Councilman Palensic

1:07:51kind of hinted around it, but I'm going to be just a little bit more direct and that

1:07:55you have a new Lisi for the IX center, a sub Lisi, a sub whoever, whatever. I don't know.

1:08:05We're talking about the temporary show extension. So yes. Yes. My question to you is there

1:08:10is an entity I want to be absolutely since I will get you the name and the ownership

1:08:16of that entity. Okay. I'm just going to ask you, is it the Haslam sports group? Well,

1:08:20they're part of it. Okay. So because we were going to shut the shows down. No, I, I, I

1:08:27know. I just want to give you the back. I know this. I know the story. Right. So currently

1:08:33you guys partnered with a group is part of the Haslam sports group is part of that group,

1:08:41whatever they're calling this entity now, but it's the Haslam sports group. Okay. You

1:08:46have, in my opinion, jumped in bed with individuals who I have no desire whatsoever to ever have

1:08:57any dealings with in the city of Cleveland. Just please. Okay. That doesn't sit very

1:09:04well with me with your reputation for operating of the IX center. Okay. It's just, it's just

1:09:13what it is. So there's, there's no getting around it. It's something that happened. We

1:09:16have to live with it. Right. Um, to me, that wasn't, uh, optic wise was not a, a good move

1:09:25on, on your behalf when we're dealing with individuals of that magnitude, uh, who have

1:09:33done nothing, but in my opinion, hurt the city of Cleveland. And then here we do continue

1:09:39to have individuals who want to work with the city of Cleveland still engaging with,

1:09:46with that entity, knowing that the bottom line is for them to take those shows out

1:09:51of the city of Cleveland and move them to Brook park. And I understand that people,

1:09:56there's a good faction of people that don't want them to leave the IX center. You've been

1:10:01on record, as you just said today, that those shows are going. And the only person who has

1:10:05the authority to make sure that those shows are going as you, because you could keep those

1:10:11shows potentially hang on at the IX center, at least for now. Right. Because all we hear

1:10:21is pie in the sky for years, since I've said on this council, I have heard that we're

1:10:28talking to somebody, somebody's out there. We've got this potential tenant coming in.

1:10:36I can tell you that I'm talking to miss October, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to date

1:10:40her. Right. That's kind of how, so there's no, in my opinion, there's no trust because

1:10:47everything is, it could happen. It could happen. It could happen. And how long, how

1:10:55long has it been, Mr. Chairman to, to, um, Mr. Samaritan, Samaritan, how long have you

1:11:02had the, the, uh, IX center? Uh, probably I'd say close to five years, Austin. Okay.

1:11:08And then that five years, how many tenants have you brought in? Uh, probably too short

1:11:13term because we don't have a lease extension. So if I can, Mr. Casey, I appreciate all your

1:11:18comments and they're, first of all, I didn't want to leave downtown either. So to be candid,

1:11:23I'll go on record. I believe that. I believe that. I don't think it's going to, God bless

1:11:28them all, but I don't think it's going to do a hill beans. Okay. So let that go. We

1:11:33got a lot of, no, no, no, no, no, you let it go. So let me just say that, that the

1:11:39only reason that we kept, we were getting pressure from a lot of community people relative

1:11:44to the shows. So we have over 32 million of personal cash invested into the property.

1:11:50We pay you 2.7 a year plus all the operating expenses, which was probably pushing close

1:11:56to 4 million bucks a year. The shows bring in maybe a million and a half, $2 million.

1:12:01So we're our spleen is let in public and you're telling me you don't trust me. I'm

1:12:07and I've been waiting from the previous administration to get a lease extension. So here I am putting

1:12:13money in check, you know, hand and fist into the facility to keep it going and paying you

1:12:17got, you know, paying everybody here, getting the airport, what they're supposed to get.

1:12:21And yet I'm the bad guy because I've been waiting for a lease extension so I can go

1:12:25out and do my normal business and I'll take you to all my industrial facilities and show

1:12:29you how I fill them up chapter and verse, just like I say. But right now you have handcuffs

1:12:34on me want me to go through the world blindfolded hopping on one leg because you're not giving

1:12:39me what we need to make this thing productive. So I'm not trying to be at any time and I

1:12:44can appreciate that. But nobody forced you to come in when you bought, when you got

1:12:48it from my heart. But we're so you knew what you were getting into. No, we did. All right.

1:12:52Previous administration. I wanted us to come in. Okay, I understand. Okay. So Mr. Chairman

1:12:57to the director, right? You kept saying the parking is with an agreement with the city,

1:13:07right? Director, are you paying attention? Yeah, I'm taking notes. Okay. You said that

1:13:12the that the parking if if there was potential outside parking, right, that that would be

1:13:17an agreement with the city of Cleveland. Who with the city of Cleveland? So through the

1:13:25chair, and again, have dealt with this a couple of times, though, it's not in my world, it

1:13:29kind of comes through the operations side of things. But we do do license agreements.

1:13:36And again, I've seen it happen directly with Cleveland Clinic, which is currently leasing

1:13:39out spaces for the Muny lot. Right, but Mr. Chairman is the director and the lease it's

1:13:44got a you you we had plenty of off table conversations about this pause you'd ask

1:13:49a specific question to port control is the Cleveland Clinic Fairview parking arrangement

1:13:57on the other side on the west side of the IX Center license with port control. It's

1:14:04at least it's at least through you. That is correct. Again, through and through the

1:14:08chair to Councilman Casey on that side, these are some of the things that we are trying

1:14:12to clean up from the old lease, which essentially gave the operator freedom to do most anything

1:14:17that they wanted with entirety of the property. Right. I do not. It's killing me. I'm trying

1:14:22to go through my head, which department it is actually handles. I'm assuming this happens

1:14:27to like mayor's office of capital. Okay. So again, I'm going to go back to the piece

1:14:31of the actual piece of legislation, which is extending the lease, which is why we're

1:14:35here today. Right. And you can't even answer that question that you brought up twice.

1:14:40So we through the chair. So the legislation actually looks at the financial incentive.

1:14:45That's a part of this. I you know, this is part of the lease negotiation, which is being

1:14:51worked on by various members of the law department as well as the lawyers for ICP. So Mr. Chairman's

1:14:59of the director, you want us to pass a piece of legislation that extends the lease that

1:15:03the lease is not even completed yet on your on the administration side. So through the

1:15:10chair to Councilman Casey, the previous legislation that was passed gave authorization to the

1:15:15administration to negotiate a lease. We are coming back for legislative authority to add

1:15:22a financial incentive to that lease. Okay. So will there will there be another piece

1:15:27of legislation that will come before the council to actually accept the lease or anything

1:15:31like that? Or are we giving that to you today? Because I don't even even our friends over

1:15:35at ICP you do not have Mr. Chairman to Chris, right? I'll just do that to Chris. You do

1:15:43not have a lease that you're ready to sign right now today, right? Right? So so that's

1:15:48still being that's still being worked through. So Mr. Chairman, to the director, wouldn't

1:15:54you want all that stuff in place prior to coming to us for the extension? So through

1:16:01the chair to Councilman Casey, again, legislative approval before I stepped into this position

1:16:06had been given to negotiate a lease extension. And that is currently where we are at and

1:16:11what we're doing. I think what we are sharing with you today are the deal points that have

1:16:16been kind of generally agreed to by all parties that we need to work through the language

1:16:21on that. I am certain that when that happens, that the you know, Mr. McGrawry, who is who

1:16:29is the lawyer on the city's behalf, will make sure that we have the appropriate department

1:16:33listed in that. So Mr. Chairman, to the director, what I'm hearing is that you want us to pass

1:16:38a piece of legislation extending a lease that you're that nobody either I see, I see pee

1:16:45or the administration has finalized, correct? That's that's correct. So through the chair

1:16:52to Councilman Casey, no, the the body has already legislated approval for the administration

1:17:00to negotiate a lease, which is happening, right? What we are asking for you today is

1:17:04to legislate authority to add a finite financial incentive into those negotiations. All right.

1:17:12And then, and I'm wrapping up. I know my time is up. Mr. Chairman, to the director,

1:17:17we had just gone through the last year and a half about a lease agreement across this

1:17:23across the the Shoreway here, right? And then a number of my colleagues are like, I can't

1:17:28believe it's, you know, it's 30 years, it's 30 years, it's 30 years. And utilities we

1:17:33deal with, with, you know, and AMP and everything else. And the deals that were cut in the

1:17:38early 90s, you know, 50 year leases that we can't get out of an agreements and all

1:17:43that other stuff. How long is the current lease, Mr. Chairman to the director, it ends

1:17:48in 2039. And how long was it for? So through the chair to Councilman Casey, I believe the

1:17:55initial lease took place in 1999, it was extended once, and it runs through 2039. I would additionally

1:18:03say that again, the reason that we are looking at a longer term extension is to allow our

1:18:08master operator to make a variety of investments in the property. There are other ways that

1:18:13we can do this. If we want to have shorter term leases, that would likely necessitate

1:18:17that the city of Cleveland be responsible for making the types of investments that

1:18:21we're looking to see. Or otherwise, we would not get the types of tenants that we're looking

1:18:25for. So you say, all right, Mr. Chairman, my last question, Mr. Chairman, to, to ICP

1:18:31or to Chris, I'm glad you find it comical, because I don't, but I've tried over the

1:18:37last three months to get a tour of the IX center. And I keep, and I keep, but I keep

1:18:42getting turned away somewhere, right? So I'm glad you're here. So if you could set something

1:18:47up, so that either as a group, the council can tour the IX center, or individually give

1:18:54us tours of the IX center, we'd love to, we'd love to see it. Okay. All right, thank you.

1:18:59Thank you, councilman Casey. I can work with, uh, Ibukun to set that up in a way that we

1:19:03did for our tours of Burke. Uh, just before I turn it over to councilman Davis, just to

1:19:08clarify the existing authority that the administration has, is it to negotiate a lease or to negotiate

1:19:15and enter into a lease? I believe it's to negotiate and enter into a lease. So, but

1:19:20for the, the rent credit is what makes this different. You could sign a lease today without

1:19:24the rent credit. You could not sign a lease with the rent credit. You don't have authorization

1:19:27for that. Okay. Councilman Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Chairman to the assembly

1:19:33here, that was going to be my first line of questioning. So just to clarify for the body

1:19:37here, so I can understand it myself. Cause I walked in with one thoughts and now I'm

1:19:41confused. The legislative summary we received says that as of November 18th, 24, the department

1:19:48had the right to extend the term of the lease and incorporate other modifications as we

1:19:53deem necessary. And so in the legislation before us today has actually nothing to do

1:19:57with terms, right? It's just, it's just the rent incentive that we have here. I just want

1:20:02to make sure I know what I'm voting on. It's just the rent incentive, right? Through the

1:20:04chair councilman Davis that is accurate. However, we felt given there are a lot of

1:20:11different factors going on here that it was prudent and important to share with you kind

1:20:15of the major deal points that we're looking on that are different, um, than the current

1:20:19lease that exists out there. Okay. But just to say it again, there's the, the length

1:20:23of term is already that that power was granted in 24 and today the only thing, the only power

1:20:28I have to vote on is yes or no over the rent incentive. Is that right? Okay. Great. Okay.

1:20:34That is clarifies how we're going to work on this. Um, real quick. I'm not familiar

1:20:38with FAA regulations around rent. Is it right that rent is somehow limited that we can't

1:20:45control what rent to be charged for the IAC center. It's based on some sort of FAA appraisal

1:20:49to the chair or through the chair through the chair to the council member, um, FAA

1:20:55states that we have to or requires that we have to obtain fair market value. We do that

1:20:59through fair market value appraisals, uh, that are typically conducted every five years.

1:21:03Okay. And, uh, I feel like I should know this. I'm sorry. I don't, why is the FAA

1:21:08control the rent for this facility? So this facility was purchased with airline funds

1:21:13back when it was bought. Um, and it is on our exhibit a property map for our airport

1:21:20layout plan. Uh, therefore that's why it applies, um, to FAA regulations. It's good

1:21:26to go down the rabbit hole for just one more second. Like, would there be any advantage

1:21:28to buying out there are, I don't know, buying out the airport funds were used to buy the

1:21:33building in the first place and therefore be able to charge our own rents. I think

1:21:37that's a different discussion, uh, than, uh, it's being discussed today. Um, there's

1:21:41always options that are on the table. Okay. Do the, do the chair director, do you have

1:21:47a thought on that? No, to be frank, that is a conversation that we had very early

1:21:53on in the process. It's frankly, it was a conversation that we had as we were having

1:21:57discussions with Brooke park. Uh, you know, there were a couple of different ways that

1:22:01this could have come into the city's, uh, total control, uh, one of which was demolishing

1:22:07the building that would have involved buying out the lease of ICP IRG and a fairly substantial

1:22:13cost to demolish it, at which point that would have all come back under our jurisdiction.

1:22:17Uh, that did not seem financially feasible. I think as we also began to look at it, again,

1:22:23this is a property that would cost an astronaut, astronomical amount to build again today.

1:22:28It's a unique asset. And so while we did look at roughly what it might cost to, uh,

1:22:34look at a buyout and repurpose it for other uses, this seems to be the path that is best

1:22:39for everyone. This gets roughly 50 acres of land back in the hand of the airport to be

1:22:43able to move forward with. It also takes an asset that we believe that we can maximize

1:22:47for high paying jobs. Beautiful. No, it's just worth explaining how the rent systems

1:22:52your work, uh, through the chair to the director, you mentioned very early on that other cities

1:22:56have more nimble forms of incentives and I'd love to know a little bit more about what

1:23:00we're not doing. If it's just the overall dollar amount, that's one thing. But if there's

1:23:04mechanisms that we haven't, well, as legislators, we haven't passed. I'd love to start having

1:23:08that conversation through the chair to, uh, the councilman. I think that was my point

1:23:14and that's because I've seen us lose early deals because, um, some other cities with

1:23:19deeper pockets that have had longer revenue streams than we have and larger can just

1:23:23write checks or they've got, they purchased their, their buildings, um, and, uh, they're

1:23:28giving them for free. So we were approached by site selector saying, can you get anything

1:23:32for a dollar square foot? Can you get, give us anything for nothing? And that's the incentive.

1:23:37And we lost early deals because of that. Um, so that's, that's what I mean by a little

1:23:41bit more nimble right now. And this is, you know, we really have to lean, we do have,

1:23:45Cleveland has a lot of unique assets. We just have to sort of lean into them and be

1:23:49a little bit more creative and we can compete. And this is one of those ways.

1:23:53Oh, that makes sense. So it's, it is a dollar amount. I mean, that's, that's fair. It's

1:23:57tough to be us. I'll share it. Just a quick thought. And then I'll yield, uh, someone

1:24:00explained to me recently, Seattle's equivalent of our downtown lakefront development plans,

1:24:05North coast connector, Seattle was able to pay in cash because they just have the money

1:24:09on hand and we have to do federal grants and bonding authorities in a tip district

1:24:13because if we're going to compete with Seattle, we don't have the cash, which is complicated.

1:24:17So thank you for your time. Um, thank you, councilman Davis years ago, when I worked

1:24:21for the previous administration, I was sent to a presentation by someone from Toronto

1:24:25to learn about how they did their, uh, lakefront development. And the answer I got back was

1:24:29to get a blank check from the provincial government. So I realized that probably wasn't

1:24:34a good option for us, but you know, here we go. Uh, uh, councilman Jones asked to

1:24:39go last. Is there anyone who would like to ask questions prior to councilman Jones?

1:24:44Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Um, Mr. Chairman, um, just wanted to go down. I just received

1:24:52the lease agreement and you know, it would be really important, Mr. Chairman, when we're

1:24:58having these meetings to make sure that if we're talking about a subject matter, we have

1:25:03all that information ahead of time so that we can do our due diligence, understand the

1:25:07deal a little bit better. And, um, and what kind of like through me, uh, was, uh, the

1:25:15presentations opening about the whole overall. So I understand why the, the Mr. Chairman

1:25:20and director did that to give us a overview of what we, what we're doing here and what

1:25:26that could potentially mean. And then I just want to thank the chairman for having a little

1:25:30bit more deeper inside about, um, the concept of, uh, who owns the particular property

1:25:37and what its value is. And so, um, with that being said, there's still so much here that

1:25:44needs to go through and we need to really fundamentally understand where the WAN really

1:25:50fundamentally is. And, and as, uh, Mr. Austin Davis stated earlier, your presentation, uh,

1:25:56gave us the, the, the, the, uh, look at, we were at a disadvantage compared to other

1:26:04cities. And so you kind of went into a little bit more deeper than this, the, the, the,

1:26:09when he asked a question, um, you didn't, you didn't, you just talked about what you

1:26:14had dealt with here. What I would like to see Mr. Chairman is what is the practices

1:26:19of other cities and what are the real incentives that these other cities may have so that

1:26:25we can develop the twos to bring in development into the city of Cleveland. And then we should

1:26:32take our time with these kinds of deals because Mr. Chairman, to the director, we're talking

1:26:37about a longer, uh, look here and we don't understand what that fundamentally means,

1:26:43especially when we don't have the, the, the, the leases to compare and contrast. And so

1:26:47we don't have that here in front of us. So I guess the first thing I would like to ask

1:26:51the question, Mr. Chairman, to the distinguished gentleman, Mr. Chris?

1:26:56Samaritan.

1:26:57Samaritan?

1:26:58Yes.

1:26:59Okay. I got it right the first time, didn't I?

1:27:00Nice job.

1:27:01Appreciate it. So sometimes I mess it up. It's okay. So Mr. Chairman, to Chris Samaritan,

1:27:06what you talk, it was talked about your company developing a number of sites. Can you, can

1:27:12you give us an example? You talked about, uh, um, the, the site located in, um, Randall

1:27:20Park. Can you tell us about how you were able to get that deal and, and what has been the

1:27:25profit there?

1:27:26Well, yeah, here, here's the, first of all, Mr. Jones, thank you very much. I think part

1:27:32of the issue that we're missing is that the property is currently not set up in a winning

1:27:37strategy. We don't have the ability today to go do a deal with any of those companies

1:27:43we've done in our portfolio or some of the other cities that were competitive cities,

1:27:47because they already have a facility that's got the right economic model. And we're still,

1:27:53to Mr. Casey's point, I've been hearing stuff for years. The reason he's been hearing it

1:27:58for years is because we're not done with this basic deal yet. So once this basic deal

1:28:02gets done, it gives us the building blocks to go paint the entire facility, give it

1:28:07a whole new image. So somebody in 2027 wants to be there, not from 1947 wants to be there.

1:28:14You see what I mean? It's just not, so the basic premise of the transaction isn't baked

1:28:18yet. So we got to get there first. I'll go to Randall now. We bought, when we bought

1:28:24Randall Park mall, we bought the interior of the mall on a tax foreclosure. So we bought

1:28:29the donut hole. We didn't even get the donut. And it took us three years to go by the Macy's,

1:28:35the Dillard's, the Sears. We had to go all the way around the mall because it's, imagine

1:28:40taking a China plate and dropping it on the ground. That's how fragmented all the properties

1:28:45are at a regional mall. And when we got it, we were just planning to do a basic industrial

1:28:50park. And what ended up happening, that's right about the time where Amazon came out

1:28:55and started growing in these communities. And they came in and we had to scrape the

1:28:59entire, well most of the site, everything but the Sears. And we brought them in to

1:29:03build their, what is it, a million square foot facility with 2,500 people working there.

1:29:10Believe it or not, it was close to, it was a little smaller than the mall originally

1:29:13was and it had more people than ever worked at the mall and had a higher payroll than

1:29:18the mall ever did. So from 1976, fast forward to 2014, that's just to give you the order

1:29:28of magnitude there. So very, very, very good for Amazon, good for Randall. You can call

1:29:33Mayor Smith. He's obviously went from one position to another relative to their community.

1:29:39And then we built another facility on the site. So back to Tom's point, the big driver

1:29:44is one thing, but it's also a multiplier effect. So when you, activity breeds activity.

1:29:50So just getting the first person, whether they come in at 300,000 or 500,000 or 900,000,

1:29:55that's one thing. But it's going to generate airport revenue, it's going to generate more

1:29:59users on that 40 acres and Emerald Park. It's going to be a ripple effect for the area on

1:30:06an industrial basis. And that's what happened at our American Greetings Project. I mean,

1:30:11Katie Gallagher cried to me when American Greetings left. What are we going to do? I

1:30:14mean, she went from, you know, what, 2,500, 2,000 headquarters company to empty and painstakingly

1:30:21over the years, we bought it for X amount of dollars. We probably put three to four

1:30:25times our purchase price into renovating the building to get it to be modern. And

1:30:29now we have 13, we have progressive insurance, we have a TRG, we have a Navage, the Neti

1:30:36Pi. I saw the people who you have. Right. So my point is that they didn't all come

1:30:42in day one. They built on each other because we had an asset worth coming to. And that

1:30:47wasn't the case when we bought it. So I would just urge we need to get our deal done. We

1:30:51need to get that property set in the right way. The good news is we actually have process,

1:30:56unlike when I started in the business, we had to go scratch and claw. Now there's like

1:31:01a pipeline for industrial companies that want to be in good industrial facilities to

1:31:06tear down the building, to start from a piece of land. It's crazy. We already have a great

1:31:13lure on the end of our hook. Now we just got to reel them in.

1:31:16And can I just add to the foundational deal, if I may?

1:31:20Well, just give me a second. And then if on the back end, Mr. Chairman, if you can

1:31:24have the distinguished lady add on to it just for the sake of time. And then if there's

1:31:30no others, maybe put me on the back end because this is really, I'm really impressed with

1:31:36Mr. Chris Emergent with finding out that you did the Randall Park moral deal as it

1:31:42neighbors against our community. And, you know, it sat there and languished for quite

1:31:49some time. And it was horrible to see such an icon be, have been allowed to deteriorate

1:31:59over time as it was. And so just talking about this particular deal, the type of businesses

1:32:06is, the City of Cleveland right now is going through the proposition of trying to get

1:32:13a handle and vet out how we're going to deal with data centers. And it's a complicated

1:32:21situation. Given the fact, Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Chris

1:32:26Emergent, are you looking to put any kind of data centers at that site facility given

1:32:33the fact that it's uniquely different from all other properties, probably within the

1:32:38entire region, because it has its own power plant?

1:32:42Right. So we have many, when you buy former auto factories, you get huge infrastructure.

1:32:48IX Center was more of a tank plant, aircraft and tank facility, so be it. Would it work

1:32:55for a data center? Probably. That's not our driver. Our driver is putting high quality

1:33:02manufacturers in the site. If there's a corner, a little corner of the building after it's

1:33:07all done that makes some sense, that generates revenue for the city, great. We wouldn't exclude

1:33:13it, but that is not our, it won't happen there as a primary use.

1:33:18And there was testimony earlier, Mr. Chairman, about output. What is the actual output of

1:33:26this power plant?

1:33:27May I give that to my son? He knows the specifics.

1:33:30I'm sorry, what's your name?

1:33:34Austin.

1:33:35Nice to meet you.

1:33:36It's my pleasure.

1:33:37So currently we have 25 megawatts available on site with the ability to pretty easily

1:33:42ramp that up to 50 megawatts. We have worked with First Energy on a load study, which

1:33:49we've spent a few hundred thousand dollars on, to study the ability to increase that

1:33:56over 100 megawatts. The manufacturing users we've been talking to would absorb a fair

1:34:02amount of that through their first couple phases.

1:34:06And would you be responsible, I mean, how would that work in terms of charging? Would

1:34:10you charge for electricity to the different, how does that work and how would that work

1:34:16into the long term plan here?

1:34:18Sure. With a large user, they would contract directly with the power company and pay those

1:34:23bills directly.

1:34:27And that is First Energy?

1:34:31And we've been working with them very well on making sure we have the right power for

1:34:36our users.

1:34:37And Mr. Chairman, if the director could make available something that we don't have, is

1:34:47seeing the entire deal of the lease. Do we have the entire deal of lease, the comparison

1:34:51and contrast?

1:34:56So through the Chair, Councilman, again, I think we're happy to share, has been shared

1:35:01in the past, but happy to share again the existing lease of the IAC Center.

1:35:06We don't have it here, we're talking about it.

1:35:08Yes.

1:35:09And just, and that was what I said earlier, because it's really, you know, this is a great

1:35:14deal potentially for the city of Cleveland, or it could be a bang or a bust. The issue

1:35:18is we won't be able to fundamentally understand that. If we're here fundamentally talking

1:35:23about the lease agreement, we should be talking about taking a look at both and giving the

1:35:29fair comparison. It gives, it respects us as council members to be able to get all

1:35:35the information in order to make the right decisions.

1:35:37And we won't know what those right decisions are, Mr. Chairman, if this council hasn't

1:35:42been afforded that in this discussion, to talk about this deal.

1:35:46So though it may, Mr. Chairman, no disrespect to you, Director, it's not here at the table

1:35:51right now, with the exception that I asked for, but I don't have, in 10 minutes, Mr.

1:35:56Chairman, doesn't give me the opportunity to really vet through the deal adequately

1:36:01like it should have been done. And it's important, Mr. Chairman, and I just wanted, and this

1:36:07is just not a direction to you, Director, but this is to all of the commissioners and

1:36:12directors that sit on this side of the table. You should, when we're talking about the

1:36:18business of the city, have and be prepared to have that information given to us. It

1:36:24is a disrespect for us on this side not to be able to get that information, but to try

1:36:29to pull or ask for it. And I'm not singing you out because you've been a good chairman,

1:36:34and you've done a wonderful job, and I'm appreciative of this deal here that you're

1:36:37trying to put together, but I just want to signal to the administration that when we're

1:36:42talking about the business of our city, this council member takes it seriously, as all

1:36:47of us do, and it respects us when you bring the information to us so that we can really

1:36:53fundamentally look at it, we can really vet it out, we can really understand it, and then

1:36:58we don't confuse it with a lot of other parts and pieces. If it is talking about the deal,

1:37:03then we should have that paperwork in front of us, and so I don't have that Mr. Chairman

1:37:08in front of me, and I don't know why we didn't have it, but as we move forward with any

1:37:14business of the city of Cleveland, and if we have it ahead of time, that would help

1:37:17us versus getting it just this week, or just getting it just yesterday. So with that being

1:37:24said Mr. Chairman, it really fundamentally, I can't make a decision yes and no, because

1:37:30I haven't really fundamentally vetted it out. Now, I love what Mr. Chris Samaritan

1:37:37has done with North Randall. I remember what it used to be. I remember being a kid going

1:37:44to Randall Park Mall. I remember the great days in 1978 when it was the wonder of America

1:37:50at one point, and I appreciate the fact that he was able to come back there at that location

1:37:56and do that, and I believe that given the fact he will do a great job here at the IX

1:38:00Center, but you have to Mr. Chairman to the director, give us the information so we can

1:38:05see that greatness evolve. And with that being said, that would probably gentlemen

1:38:10be my uneasiness here, not being able to have all the material in front of me.

1:38:15So how about this Councilman Jones, if I could work with our policy staff to take

1:38:21that very thick binder and kind of break it, not denying anybody the pleasure of reading

1:38:27the lease in its entirety, but work to come up with an easier to digest summary of that

1:38:34compared to what is being presented as the finite points of what would be a new lease

1:38:40so that we can sort of make that apples to apples comparison. A couple quick things.

1:38:46One, there had just to settle this rumor, there had been a potential end user a number

1:38:53of months ago that seems to have not come to pass. That happens in economic development

1:38:57sometimes. A blogger picked up that it was a data center. Was it a data center?

1:39:01Absolutely not.

1:39:02Thank you. Please stop calling me about that.

1:39:04May I go into that any further, please? Just to settle the whole-

1:39:08Very briefly.

1:39:09Yes. So we had a major company with over 300 people that wanted to utilize the entire

1:39:15footprint of the building to support their operation. Based on challenges in the EV world,

1:39:23they decided to pull the plug on the requirement. We did complete planning, costing the entire

1:39:29bit. In the meantime, we're trying to negotiate that while we're trying to get our base extension.

1:39:34Very tough thing to do. Set us up to succeed. Thank you.

1:39:39Thank you. Mr. Scheel, was there anything you wanted to add on the back end of Councilman

1:39:45Jones' comments? Into the microphone, please.

1:39:50I have a loud voice. I think Chris made a great point and wrapped it up just there at

1:39:55the end. I think one of the issues that we have, as you guys know, we've been touring

1:40:02a couple companies, one very mature deal that we've been engaged with since April.

1:40:11When we talk to these users and these parties that are interested in why you keep hearing

1:40:16about things that aren't being executed, their lease with us, the master lease, is

1:40:23shorter than the lease that they would want. So they can't sign. And so this is really

1:40:29critical that we get this done. And they've been super patient. And all of the points

1:40:33that were made today I heard, but I just wanted to reiterate that that is a core part

1:40:38of this, is we need to get this deal done. And this helps us influence those types of

1:40:44customers that we want, which we already have on the line. So. Thank you. Councilman

1:40:49Casey had a brief question. Just since we touched on it was the data center stuff, Mr.

1:40:55Chairman. How many current megawatts does it take to power the IX center? I mean, to

1:41:03turn lights and heat on? Virtually nothing. Because there's nobody in there, right? No,

1:41:08just because lights and heat aren't the driver. It's the electrical power for manufacturing.

1:41:12Well, I know that. Oh, okay. What's the capacity right now? Do you know how many megawatts

1:41:18you guys have there? He Austin said that earlier. There's, I believe there's 25 that

1:41:22the site is set up today for 25 megawatts. Okay. All right. Then that's that's what

1:41:27I was asking. Only because the data center stuff and I know Councilman's life and myself

1:41:34try to dispel all the rumors, right, about data centers. And it's a hot topic right

1:41:40now. Yes, sir. And I'm glad you said that you have no immediate intention of moving

1:41:46any type of data center into the IX center. We're correct in saying that because it's

1:41:53going to start. It's going to start over again. Okay. And then the station that powers

1:42:00the IX center, is it the same one that powers the airport or are they separate? We have

1:42:08our own substation. Okay. I think the overall lines from first energy, there might be some

1:42:14connectivity there, but it's not the same. So, right. You there, there's two separate

1:42:18substations out there, right? The one for the airport, one for the X center. There's

1:42:21a one on the north one south to specifically power the airport. Yeah. Okay. Right. But

1:42:28you guys are on your own separate one. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to clarify,

1:42:37the airport has one or two exclusive substations too. And then a third substation adjacent

1:42:42to the IX center. Okay. Thank you. Councilman Jones, did you want to come back on? You

1:42:47know, Mr. Chairman, I, you know, I've asked for the information, so I don't know. This,

1:42:51this is going, are we looking to move it out of the committee today? My hope was to move

1:42:55this towards finance, knowing that we are looking for additional information as it

1:43:00comes to finance specific to the lease. And, and also I think there's some other discussions

1:43:05I would like to have with members about what the discussion would be at finance. But I

1:43:09think from the airport or the transportation mobility committee perspective, my hope was

1:43:14to move this forward towards finance. So those discussions could be had. Well, what

1:43:18I would share, Mr. Chairman, is just, you know, I know that when this deal at the IX

1:43:23center, I just want to make sure I'm clear because I don't want to say anything that

1:43:26I'm not sure. Basically, this deal that the IX center was, was done when you initially

1:43:33get engaged on speculation. Is that correct? The current lease that we have was something

1:43:38that we acquired from the previous owner. Okay. With strong inducement from the previous

1:43:44administration to come and take this over and renovate it and make it a facility. Obviously

1:43:50things change and things take longer and we're here today. Okay. So, so just what

1:43:56I would, what would make it easy for me is, is seeing the entire deal, the entire lease,

1:44:02you know, seeing in comparison and contrast, I don't care if it's 20 books. Then I want

1:44:07to see all 20 books. If it's 200 books, I want to see all 200 books. I don't have

1:44:13a problem, Mr. Chairman, with the volume. We'll jump right on into it and kind of get

1:44:17an idea. And if this is the go to finance, I presume Monday. I don't, I don't, that

1:44:23would ultimately be up to the council president. So, I don't know. As you, as you, Mr. Chairman,

1:44:26you might have 20 books director and now you see, now you've been tied up my entire

1:44:30weekend trying to get this. So, so hopefully, Mr. Chairman, in the future, if you could

1:44:36have this information ahead of time, I would be appreciative. This councilman would be

1:44:40appreciative of being able to vet through it. And, and, and I just want to say to Mrs.

1:44:47Merrigan, thank you for the work that you do do. I look forward to you, to taking you

1:44:53up on going to, I think you offered one of the council members, I don't know if it's

1:44:58Mr. Austin Davis or Mr. Brian Casey, but I'd like to go and take a look at your other

1:45:04facilities, see what they look like. And then for the record, I'm open to understanding

1:45:11data centers even a little bit more better. And then maybe how the city of Cleveland

1:45:16might be able to utilize this as a, as a boom versus as bang. And, and so I'm not sure

1:45:23about the data centers. I know that in some ways in which they operate, but we, when

1:45:28I'm, we're still gathering these big, huge centers and their negative impacts on the

1:45:33environment, but I'm still gathering the information. I think that the city of Cleveland

1:45:38needs to do everything she can do to position herself to be viability strong economically.

1:45:44So I'm not opposed to this based upon the director's presentation. It does show that

1:45:50we, we will be able to profit after a long period of time, not having any profitability

1:45:56at this location. Thank you, councilman Jones. If chief McNair

1:46:02in a future presentation, could you include sort of a compare and contrast slide to help

1:46:08us do a, do a comparison of the two leases. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership.

1:46:13Thank you. Hearing no other questions. Could the clerk please call the roll on 10 42 26?

1:46:19Yes. Yes. Yes. No. Okay. Thank you. Please sign up the legislation.

1:46:36It will move towards finance. Thank you for your time today. If you could please take

1:46:40any meetings after the meeting down the hall because it can get noisy. Sometimes that

1:46:45ends the legislative portion of the meeting. As we transition, I'm going to kind of cue

1:46:51us up for the next portion by reading something. What time is it? Good morning. We weren't

1:46:59sure how long that was going to take everyone, but we started a half hour early. All right.

1:47:03Thank you chief. So approximately one year ago, mayor Bibbon County executive Ronane

1:47:08penned a joint letter to federal leaders expressing their shared interest. Tell them

1:47:12everyone quietly please expressing their shared interest in an eventual closure of the city

1:47:16owned Burke lakefront airport and the repurposing of that land for development and public access

1:47:21to the lakefront through a series of four meetings, Cleveland city council and the

1:47:24public heard presentations on expenses and obstacles to developing Cleveland's lakefront

1:47:29broadly, including, but not limited to Burke Burke's financial position within the department

1:47:33of port control and the distinction between enterprise funds and the city's general fund

1:47:37federal and local processes that would be required to close Burke. And finally redevelopment

1:47:42concepts, not plans, but concepts from the bib administration and the north coast waterfront

1:47:47development corporation demonstrating how they believe Burke could be reimagined. The

1:47:51purpose of those hearings was to provide a deeper context to mayor Bibbon executive

1:47:54Ronane's advocacy for Burke's closure. To that end, I believe the hearings were useful

1:47:58and successful. Admittedly, however, the hearings caused many to question Burke's closure entirely

1:48:04and inquire as to how the city could further leverage Burke as an airport to benefit the

1:48:08city. For some, these questions and inquiries are a null hypothesis, a responsible examination

1:48:13of existing conditions to learn if they're preferable to change. For others, questions

1:48:18and inquiries have been more directly tied to lived experience as users of Burke or

1:48:21industry experts who wonder if Burke's underperformance to characterize it is inevitable or manufactured.

1:48:28Today, in this hearing, we will hear the perspectives of industry experts users of

1:48:33Burke, the manager of Detroit's version of Burke, Detroit city airport and others.

1:48:38Take you to our guests, my colleagues in attendance and to the public for your participation

1:48:42and interest. Before we get going, I want to underscore two items. One, mayor Bibb's

1:48:48administration and leadership of the north coast waterfront development corporation are

1:48:51not participating in today's hearings. This was my decision. I appreciate chief Travis

1:48:56Anno, director Francis, Mr. Skinner, and all others who participated in the previous

1:49:00hearings and outlined in detail their perspective. The purpose of today is to explore an alternative

1:49:06perspective, not to engage in a back and forth debate. For this reason, and with my discretion

1:49:11as chairman of the committee, I did not invite them to participate today. Two, today's hearing,

1:49:17like the for proceeding it is purely conceptual. Formalizing a closure of Burke would require

1:49:23some form of federal action as well as authorizing legislation passed by this body. I am aware

1:49:28of no finite plan from the BIBB administration to seek Burke's closure and this body has

1:49:33not received any legislation for consideration of the same. The purpose of this hearing

1:49:38is to equip members of council and the public with information so that, in the event that

1:49:43a closure were pursued by the BIBB administration or any other administration through formal

1:49:47channels, a responsible and informed decision could be made. Thank you. And with that,

1:49:52if I could ask Mr. Lewis and our other presenters to come forward to the table, I can read

1:49:58you off. There's definitely a Mr. Pancake. Oh, man. Welcome. Middle school must have

1:50:07been fun. So I have on my list Mr. Kyle Lewis, Christian Pancake, George Kacikis, Josh Herman,

1:50:17Drew Ferguson and Alex Gertson. To your left is Mrs. Jimenez, the clerk. If you are interested

1:50:24in public comment, you can sign up with her and we can give a few minutes for public comment

1:50:28on the other side of this. I will turn it over to you, Mr. Lewis, if you would like

1:50:32to introduce yourself and allow others to introduce themselves as well. To turn the

1:50:36microphones on, you push the button that says push. Sometimes, to use colloquialism

1:50:42from my southern childhood, you've got to mash it real good. But once it turns green,

1:50:46you're good. Sometimes, you have to use your outside voice inside. This is for people

1:50:51that are watching on TV and online as much as it is to amplify in the room. Mr. Lewis,

1:50:57you've got to mash it harder. There you go. There we go. The green light's on. Good morning.

1:51:04First of all, thank you, Chairman Slyfe, committee members for hearing us today. I think this

1:51:10has been a long time coming. Luckily, I've had the pleasure to meet many of you on some

1:51:15tours at Burke Airport. I know you've met other members of the LAPP. So a quick introduction

1:51:21about myself for those that don't know. Kyle Lewis, regional manager of the Great Lakes

1:51:26Region for Airports and State Advocacy, Aircraft Owners and Piles Association. AOPA was one

1:51:32of the founding members of the Lakefront Airport Preservation Partnership, who we have represented

1:51:37here at this table today, and some members here in the gallery. So I will turn it over

1:51:41to George to introduce himself as we get the first slides up.

1:51:49Good morning. George Katsikas, founder and president and CEO of Atherosaviation, a current

1:51:56tenant at Burke Lakefront, and one of the medical providers of air transportation.

1:52:02I'm privileged to be here today. Thank you, Chairman, Vice Chair and distinguished colleagues

1:52:07of the committee. If you want to continue down the line.

1:52:15Thank you for the opportunity. Alex Kurtzen, Senior Director, Airport Advocacy at the National

1:52:20Business Aviation Association in Washington, DC. We represent businesses, companies, individuals

1:52:28who use their aircraft as part of their business, as well as the greater industry who supports

1:52:33all of those members. Mr. Alex, can you please say your last name again?

1:52:38Absolutely, Gertzen, G-E-R-T-S-E-N. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Kirshen.

1:52:47Good morning. Thank you, Chairman, and to the council members for having us. My name

1:52:51is, as we have established, Christian Pancake. That is really my last name. I'm with the

1:52:57Ohio Regional Business Aviation Association, and I'm also an owner and a family business

1:53:05TAS Aviation based here in Ohio. We represent a bit of a similar crowd to the National Business

1:53:11Aviation Association, but very regionally here in Ohio, so businesses and users of

1:53:15airports and people who conduct business within the aviation community.

1:53:22Good morning. My name is Josh Herman. I'm the General Manager of Signature Aviation

1:53:25at Burke Lakefront, so if you're unfamiliar, Signature Aviation is the FBO, so the sole

1:53:30service provider at Burke Lakefront Airport, so we do all the handling of the aircraft

1:53:35to fly in. Good morning. My name is Samuel Vega. I'm

1:53:42a senior at Benjamin O. Davis Junior High School and training to become a pilot. Can

1:53:47you repeat your name again, please? Yes, Samuel Vega.

1:53:49Good morning. My name is Captain Drew Ferguson. I'm the CEO of the Cleveland based nonprofit

1:53:59Argonaut. We created and opened the Davis Aerospace and Maritime High School in 2017

1:54:05with the City of Cleveland. My title is CEO. My role here today is I'm the executive

1:54:11assistant to the two gentlemen that are sitting on my left and right. My job is to support

1:54:17them, guide and support their leadership, and remove all hurdles that we here in Cleveland

1:54:25like to place in front of our kids quite often, so we appreciate this time.

1:54:33Hello. My name is Edward Satello. I'm a sophomore at Benjamin O. Davis Junior High

1:54:38School and I am working towards becoming an aircraft mechanic.

1:54:47Thank you, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for your patience. Also, I will turn it over

1:54:51to you and let you go through the presentation, and after that, I will turn it over to colleagues

1:54:57so we can ask questions and have a discussion. Thank you again.

1:55:00Thank you, Chairman. So we're going to start off. So who we are as the LAPP. You heard

1:55:07from some of those here at the table, but also we have the Cleveland National Air Show

1:55:12as part of the LAPP, the Experimental Aircraft Association based in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, GAMA,

1:55:19which is the General Aviation Manufacturers Association, ICAS, which is the International

1:55:23Council of Air Shows, NATA, National Air Transportation Association, represents on-airport businesses

1:55:30like FBOs, like Signature, NBAA, who is here, also the Northeast Ohio Pilot Association,

1:55:37Signature Aviation, and then Zone Aviation. They could not be here today, but it is one

1:55:41of the flight schools very active on Burke Airport. So we will get right into this. This

1:55:48is a short video that we put together to kind of do an explainer on how Burke fits

1:55:53into the national picture. So take it away. You know, have you ever looked at a local

1:55:59airport and wondered how it actually fits into the grand scheme of things? Well, welcome

1:56:03to this explainer. Today, we're diving into the systemic power of Burke Lakefront Airport,

1:56:08or BKL, right there in Cleveland, Ohio. We're going to see how local aviation infrastructure

1:56:13isn't just an isolated runway. It's actually a heavily integrated piece of a massive national

1:56:18puzzle. Okay, let's dive right into this. We're taking a macro to micro journey today.

1:56:23We'll start with the national airport system, move into FAA funding and planning, check

1:56:28out the Ohio Aviation Economic Impact, run through Burke Lakefront by the numbers, and

1:56:32finish up with its role as a gateway to the community, the national airport system. Because

1:56:38to understand one single airport, we really have to understand the whole federal system

1:56:42first. So the Federal Aviation Administration, they rely on this foundational blueprint called

1:56:47the NPAIS. That stands for the National Plan of Integrated Airport Systems. Basically,

1:56:54this master plan meticulously identifies exactly which public use airports are part

1:56:58of the national system and what specific roles they serve. It's absolutely crucial

1:57:03for keeping our sky safe, efficient, and of course, capable of handling capacity. And

1:57:08get this, the NPAIS identifies nearly 3,300 public use airports working together as a

1:57:14cohesive national network. BKL isn't just a random strip of pavement on a lakefront.

1:57:19No way. It's an active node in a highly planned network of 3,300 facilities, keeping the entire

1:57:25continent connected. FAA funding and planning. So the crucial point is how the FAA actually

1:57:32uses this plan. The NPAIS dictates the specific roles of airports in the network, their eligible

1:57:38development amounts, and exactly how federal funding gets distributed through the Airport

1:57:42Improvement Program, or AIP. The FAA uses all of this to systematically allocate and

1:57:47publish five-year estimates of eligible development. It's all about systematically prioritizing

1:57:51long-term capacity, safety, and infrastructure. Now, the system is exclusive, but it's really

1:57:57diverse. It includes commercial service airports, relievers, and selected public-owned general

1:58:02aviation hubs. BKL fits perfectly in here. It boasts the extensive runway length and

1:58:08the sophisticated instrument approaches that are literally required to relieve congestion

1:58:12from major commercial hubs and efficiently support heavy business aviation.

1:58:16All right, Section 3, Ohio Aviation Economic Impact. Let's shift from that macro-federal

1:58:22level down to the state level. Now, what's really interesting about this is how Ohio

1:58:27engages in its own statewide planning with the Department of Transportation. If you look

1:58:32at the dashboard mapping out Ohio, it beautifully tracks the economic lifeblood flowing through

1:58:36these local hubs. It shows exactly how aviation directly supports state businesses and local

1:58:42communities. And the ODOT airport system tracks this economic impact across 104 different

1:58:48airports in the state. That establishes a highly competitive context, right? So, out

1:58:52of these 104 airports acting as economic engines for Ohio, we want to see exactly how

1:58:58our specific focus today, Burke Lakefront in Cuyahoga County, performs in the mix.

1:59:03Burke Lakefront by the numbers. Right off the bat, ODOT classifies Burke Lakefront

1:59:08as a system plan level one airport. In the whole hierarchy of state aviation planning,

1:59:14this is a top tier designation. And this high rank isn't just driven by corporate travel.

1:59:19Actually, it's heavily driven by its vital role in providing immediate life-saving emergency

1:59:24access and critical medevac capabilities to the area. Think about operations for places

1:59:29like the world-renowned Cleveland Clinic. And looking at the 2024 ODOT data, total employment

1:59:35at BKL sits at a robust 664 people. That's over 600 local jobs directly supported by

1:59:41this single transportation note, anchoring families and really supporting the local tax

1:59:45base. Plus, those jobs generate some serious substantial income. The total payroll stands

1:59:51at an incredible $58.5 million. I mean, that is real money flowing directly into the pockets

1:59:57of the local workforce.

1:59:58Now let this human...

2:00:00To put it all into perspective, Burke Lakefront generates nearly 195 million dollars in total

2:00:07output for the economy. Nearly 195 million. It's not just an aviation facility. It is

2:00:14a massive economic engine hiding in plain sight, right there on the Cleveland Lakefront.

2:00:19Finally, Section 5. Gateway to the community. Because, you know, economic output doesn't

2:00:24just happen in a vacuum. It requires physical connectivity. And this brilliantly illustrates

2:00:30exactly what we mean by a gateway. If you check out the dense blue clusters over the

2:00:35Midwest and East Coast, every single dot represents active flight paths coming and going. And

2:00:41this volume isn't just business aviation. It represents critical high-frequency medevac

2:00:45flights for those healthcare institutions we talked about. It's a literal web, connecting

2:00:50Cleveland all across the U.S., stretching up into Canada, and reaching way down into

2:00:54the Caribbean. It absolutely proves that BKL's specialized infrastructure is working exactly

2:01:00as that integrated national system we defined at the start intended. Seamlessly facilitating

2:01:05global business and critical emergency access. So, as we wrap up this explainer, I want

2:01:10to leave you with this thought. How is your local economy quietly powered by the integrated

2:01:15aviation network working behind the scenes? The next time you drive past a local runway?

2:01:20Remember, the massive unseen infrastructure, the critical emergency access, and the incredible

2:01:25economic power it truly represents. Thanks so much for joining me today.

2:01:28Okay, so we're going to dig in to some of that information a little deeper as we go

2:01:35through the next few slides. Previously, there's been four other hearings that the administration

2:01:42was able to present at earlier in the year, so we're going to go through kind of a refresher

2:01:46on some things that were said. I would love to go point by point and dismiss some of those.

2:01:51However, we're going to take the big points and talk about those. The actual use of the

2:01:55airport isn't really costing money to the taxpayer. Defining what a reliever airport

2:02:01is, there was some confusion about that early on. And then the path forward, what would

2:02:06be some corrective action? And that's why we have some folks here at the table that

2:02:10are going to share some really good information with you shortly.

2:02:16So I want to point out, first of all, where this information comes from. This is a third-party

2:02:21vendor. It's called Airport Data Monitoring Systems. They track airport usage via a system

2:02:30called ADS-B, Automatic Data Surveillance Broadcast. And for aircraft that are operating

2:02:36in the Cleveland Class B airspace, the airspace around Cleveland, this technology is required

2:02:42on all aircraft. It is satellite-based, and it's also ground station GPS-based. It ties

2:02:49in with the aircraft's transponder, so it's always on. And airport data monitoring provides

2:02:55this service to airports to track flights, operations on the ground, et cetera. We have

2:03:01this information to count operations at Burke. Burke is trending to 50,000 operations per

2:03:07year. For comparison, in northeast Ohio, with control-towered airports, meaning they

2:03:13have a physical control tower on the property. Akron Canton is at 38,000 on average per

2:03:19year, Mansfield at 18, Youngstown at 24,800. These other airports may not have this technology,

2:03:28so these are based on tower counts from the control towers reported to the FAA. We're

2:03:35averaging at Burke almost 4,000 operations per month. If you talk to the staff at Burke,

2:03:43they'll tell you that this year it's trending towards 60,000 operations. And the timeline

2:03:48I built was January 1st of 2025 to just last week, so to build that trending numbers on

2:03:56the operations.

2:03:57>> Mr. Lewis, just to clarify real quick, the Akron Canton is the Akron Canton Airport.

2:04:01There are its passenger, commercial passengers, so this is exclusive of Hopkins as a towered

2:04:07airport, northeast Ohio, which is presumably far above these numbers.

2:04:09>> Oh, yeah, Hopkins is around the 90,000 range. Yes. But Akron Canton, the majority

2:04:14of their operations are general aviation, like Burke Lakefront. The big number you

2:04:20see at the bottom with the red arrow, that is 82,500, which is approximating. That's

2:04:25from January 1st of 2025 to current as of last week. And these numbers are all real

2:04:32numbers based on this data. We wanted to capture that long-term trend to get the significance

2:04:39of these operations. And of course, the blue map on the right, you're hitting all lower

2:04:4548 states and international as far as flights to or from the airport. So again, this is

2:04:51not just a bubble around Cleveland with local flights. This is a national airport.

2:04:57Okay, about the cost, the money tree, right? That's always fun to talk about. So how is

2:05:06Burke funded? This came up in the previous hearings, but I wanted to make sure we revisit

2:05:11that and get a clear picture so there's an understanding as we go forward today. It's

2:05:16an enterprise fund, meaning the revenues on the airport system, both Hopkins and Burke,

2:05:23stay in the airport system. It's supported by its own revenue, the broader system revenue

2:05:29and federal funding. Unfortunately, there have not been grants accepted for Burke-Lakefront

2:05:35since 2019. There's been a lot of money left on the table since 2019, potentially $50

2:05:42million left on the table for infrastructure upgrades, pavement rehabilitations, et cetera.

2:05:50But that is the big picture on how the airport is funded. The cost to the airport system,

2:05:57and these are City of Cleveland numbers, a port control audit from 2024. You can take

2:06:02a look at the numbers there, but Burke is only 2.9% of that total operating cost of

2:06:08the system. The average support from the system, not the general fund, is $900,000

2:06:15per year. In 2018, it was low as $158,000. It is not a deficit to the taxpayers that

2:06:22the administration has been carrying. And again, these slides will be available. So

2:06:28if you want to look at those numbers closer, you are more than welcome.

2:06:34So what does Cleveland subsidize from the general fund? That was a big point of discussion

2:06:38in one of the hearings. There is listed everything from the city. What's not on that list?

2:06:45Burke Airport. There's been no transfers from the general fund to Burke Airport. Again,

2:06:51it's supported by the system of Hopkins and Burke.

2:06:54Clarification, Mr. Chairman. Just want to make sure I hear the distinguished gentleman.

2:07:01You're saying that there has been no zero dollars from the general fund going over to

2:07:06Burke Lake Airport? Through the Chairman of the Council, and that is correct. And these

2:07:09numbers are from the City of Cleveland in your 2026 budget book.

2:07:13Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So again, the mayor has proposed a park to be put on the facility.

2:07:22You can see that number on the right-hand side, that you're already subsidizing parks

2:07:25at $40.14 million in the general fund. So I'm not sure you want to add another park

2:07:31to that, that would cost more money to the city.

2:07:38Let's talk about Cleveland Hopkins. Heavily commercial service, it also lost money in

2:07:44recent history. This is directly from FAA numbers that Cleveland Hopkins reports to

2:07:49the FAA. 2020 obviously is kind of the outlier with COVID. But moving forward, there's been

2:07:54a couple of years where Cleveland has also been in the red, so to speak. And again,

2:08:00that's from the FAA activity tracking, public airports report for Cleveland. These are

2:08:05all public, publicly found numbers in compliance with advisory circular 150-5100-190. So, do

2:08:11we have any questions on this before we move on?

2:08:18Yes.

2:08:19One question and then let's get through the whole presentation.

2:08:21Yes.

2:08:22Is there a comparison to your airport? Did you lose any money?

2:08:27Which specific airport?

2:08:28I mean, I'm talking about our airport. Thank you.

2:08:30As compared to Burke?

2:08:31Yes.

2:08:32So Burke is being supported by the system on an average of $900,000 per year.

2:08:39Do we have any losses?

2:08:41So Burke does not report the same way as a commercial service airport reports. I can

2:08:47go back a couple slides. This is Burke's cost to the Cleveland airport system.

2:08:53One of the things we've been trying to figure out, Councilman Jones, in the budget, when

2:08:58we get the budget annually, we get the Department of Port Control, which is inclusive of, it's

2:09:03not like there's Department of Public Works Administration and then each Division of Public

2:09:06Works. We don't get airport administration and then a separate budget for Hopkins and

2:09:12a separate budget for Burke. I'm not so much advocating that it should be presented as

2:09:15such in the budget book as much as it would be easier to understand if we were able to

2:09:19break out, you know, kind of separate this from that to understand how they would look

2:09:28if they were individualized. But that's an ongoing conversation with the administration

2:09:33finance to understand that's something Councilman Palazzi has actually requested. How can we

2:09:37understand Burke's finances in a vacuum?

2:09:41Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that clarification.

2:09:43Kyle, I think it's important.

2:09:44That makes a lot of sense.

2:09:46On that slide, there's a $1.3 million that's being generated in revenue by the airport

2:09:52and has a lot more potential to generate additional funds to be completely self-sustaining

2:09:58if managed and operated properly, which we'll get into further in the hearing some of the

2:10:02ideas and opportunities that the airport has.

2:10:08So in that video, you saw some numbers presented of the economic impact through ODOT. ODOT

2:10:14just wrapped up the state airport system plan, SASP. They used data from 2024 and 2025.

2:10:22They worked with a contracting firm called AECOM and also Ohio State University Economics

2:10:28that built out the modeling for economic output. These are the big numbers for Burke. Again,

2:10:34it was in the video, but that total output for economic impact is nearly $195 million.

2:10:41In the 2014 study, it was at $78 million. So again, just in the last decade, that number

2:10:50has more than doubled. And that's with minimal investment into the airport. I want to make

2:10:55that clear.

2:10:56So the airport is performing well as far as economic output is concerned. It could be

2:11:01a lot better. And we're going to get into a case study shortly to speak more about that.

2:11:08What is a reliever airport? It does not mean that airlines come to Burke in bad weather.

2:11:16It is not specifically an emergency landing strip for Cleveland Hopkins. The role of

2:11:21a reliever airport is to reduce congestion at busy commercial service airports, meaning

2:11:28they don't want the slower airplanes and helicopters mixed in with scheduled airline

2:11:33service. Those aircraft are more than welcome to operate at Burke, at Cleveland Hopkins.

2:11:39But it can cause airline delays, ground delays, et cetera, especially with flight training,

2:11:45which is you have actually two busy flight schools at Burke, a lot of medevac helicopter

2:11:51traffic that is better suited for a reliever airport like Burke. Again, general aviation

2:11:59is everything outside of commercial airlines and military. And that is the purpose of

2:12:04Burke airport is to support those operations.

2:12:11What is the path forward? And that's what we're going to talk about for the rest of

2:12:15our presentations. The very first step that the administration and this body should look

2:12:21at is a master plan prescribed by the FAA. They take into account the current and future

2:12:30needs of the facility. They will look at airport layouts. They will look at current users.

2:12:37They even look at your leasing programs. They look at compatible land use. It's a

2:12:42very inclusive and transparent process with the FAA. It allows public comment, allows

2:12:48industry to have input on the plan. And again, develop alternatives. This might be the most

2:12:55important part is they will present alternative layouts for the airport that might be more

2:13:02economically viable, could be more efficient for the airport. And we'll talk about a case

2:13:08study here shortly. But this is the beginning of the path forward is to start the master

2:13:15plan for the airport. And just so you know, the FAA will pay for master plans would not

2:13:21come out of the city at all. The FAA is happy to pay for master plans through the airport

2:13:27improvement program, the FAA funding. So how do we fix Burke airport? Not that it needs

2:13:38a lot of fixing, so to speak, but how do we move forward? Again, the master plan is

2:13:43a big part of that long-term leasing. Just had a very lively discussion about the IX

2:13:49center and a long-term lease for the IX center. So I think it's all understood that for private

2:13:54entities to make investment with public bodies, they need a long-term lease. Unfortunately,

2:14:00at Burke, it seems to have been an engineered destruction of the airport by not offering

2:14:05long-term leasing. So I have folks here with me today that are willing to actually put

2:14:10money on the table and show what they want to invest in Burke and how they want to invest

2:14:15in the airport. So I'm going to I think this is the end of my presentation. And next will

2:14:21be Mr. Kacikis with a Ferris. So she has to turn off my presentation there. So I'll

2:14:28hand all that over to you.

2:14:29Again, thank you for the opportunity to present before the body. As I mentioned, I'm here

2:14:51representing a Ferris aviation group. A Ferris aviation group has been operating at Burke

2:14:57Lake Front for the past 20 years. Our principal core business is Medivac. That is the transportation

2:15:06of organs and patients regionally, nationally, and internationally 24/7, 375 days a year.

2:15:15I also would like to thank the committee for taking the time to examine the future of Burke

2:15:19Lake Front Airport thoughtfully and objectively. I know public discussion about Burke has become

2:15:27increasingly emotional and understandably so. It is one of Cleveland's most visible

2:15:31and recognizable assets. However, as important decisions are considered and decisions that

2:15:38could potentially impact generations of the city going forward, I think it's critical

2:15:44that the decisions are based on not assumptions but facts. Over the past several years, some

2:15:51of the public conversation has focused on Cleveland's potential gain from closing Burke

2:15:56Lake Front and a lot less about what that would mean if Burke is lost. So I'm here

2:16:04today to sort of perhaps give perspective to the latter. Burke is often described as

2:16:11an airport. In reality, it is much more than that. It is the health care infrastructure,

2:16:18and I'll expand upon this in the presentation, that supports the movement of donor organs,

2:16:23critical ill patients, and medical teams. It is an economic infrastructure that supports

2:16:29businesses, attracts investment, and sustains highly skilled jobs. In the transportation

2:16:38infrastructure, it serves as previously noted here as the federal designated reliever airport

2:16:44supporting a very critical component for safe operations within our air traffic system.

2:16:50So again, if we consider the health care infrastructure component of it, economic infrastructure,

2:16:55the transportation infrastructure, these are distinctive matters that really need to

2:17:00be considered and not just looking at a piece of pavement we call a runway at an airport.

2:17:07First, as already been stated, Burke is not paid for by the general fund. It is part of

2:17:15the bigger enterprise system, not subsidized by taxpayers as it's been indicated in the

2:17:21past. It is self-sustaining and generating as part of an enterprise separately outside

2:17:27of the general fund. I think that is very critical for us to understand so there's

2:17:30make decisions going forward how that impacts the taxpayers of this community.

2:17:36Second, Burke values cannot be solely a matter of crunching numbers in terms of our aircraft

2:17:43operations. I think we've demonstrated so far that Burke is within average to above

2:17:48average when compared to other comparable airports in the area. But the true reality

2:17:53here that I would like to present is that what Burke does is not about operations and

2:18:00moving passengers, it's ability to do the following. And again, that's in the scope

2:18:05of health care, that's in the scope of business activity, that's in aviation employment,

2:18:10that's in emergency readiness, that's in tourism, that's in special events like the

2:18:14Cleveland Air Show and in private investment. The value of Burke is not, again, the runway

2:18:20itself, but it is what that runway allows us to do, the possibilities that it brings

2:18:26as being part of an integral part of our community. Finally, the discussion should

2:18:31not be simply about land, which again, it seems like that's what we focused on. The

2:18:36discussion should be about infrastructure. Before I think we decide what might it look

2:18:41like replacing Burke, we should fully understand the value of the infrastructure that we currently

2:18:46have and how that has impacted us again in terms of our health care system, the business

2:18:52and the aviation ecosystem that we have currently at Cleveland, which is very distinct when

2:18:58you're looking at other big cities. And if we were to consider cities like Chicago,

2:19:04Toronto, San Diego and others, I think we would learn a lot how the city and the community

2:19:10has embraced the asset that they have along the shoreline and merged the two together

2:19:17and really have done some phenomenal things for the community. I also would like to pose

2:19:24the questions of what does it support, meaning, you know, what does the Burke Lake Front

2:19:29Airport really support? I think there's a lot of misunderstanding as to what that is.

2:19:33What does it enable us to do as a community being an ambassador and a gateway to the world?

2:19:40And I think what I would like to do today through my presentation is give you just a

2:19:44small sampling of what we as the theorists have done in conjunction with the city and

2:19:51Burke Lake Front, what it has enabled us to do, bringing the values that I've talked

2:19:54about, but putting it more in a concrete context. Before I begin the presentation,

2:20:04actually, there's a little video that I -- it's a one-minute video that I'd like to present

2:20:08that might give a little perspective of who we are, what we do and summarize perhaps

2:20:15my presentation. Thank you.

2:20:17The point there is that as many other local aviation companies, we have started in Cleveland,

2:21:40we grew in Cleveland, we've remained in Cleveland, in our case, 20-plus years, and we've used

2:21:45Cleveland and the opportunities that it's availed to us to span out in a very global

2:21:52setting. So in my example of what Burke Lake Front enables, let me kind of take you through

2:22:02what, as an owner, as an entrepreneur, I have experienced here in the last 40 years that

2:22:10I have called Burke Lake Front a home. I started here as a flight instructor while

2:22:15still at university. I eventually established a flight school that involved into even a

2:22:23nonprofit foundation where, at the time, the Congressman Stokes, the Tuskegee Airmen,

2:22:29and the Icarus Foundation reached out to the city school system of Cleveland and brought

2:22:35forth opportunities for aviation and higher education pursuits for students who would

2:22:42otherwise never have that possibility. Eventually, by 2005, with some happenstance and being

2:22:49at the right place at the right time, I found out there's aviation where we then developed

2:22:54what is today's Cleveland Clinics Fix-Wing program. That did not happen, but for any

2:23:01other reason in my mind is because I chose to call Cleveland home. I chose to cultivate

2:23:08the opportunities that this city and this airport enabled me to do the proximity to

2:23:13the renowned hospital systems that we all know and appreciate, such as the Cleveland

2:23:18Clinic, University Hospital, and Metro. All of those kind of came together at a perfect

2:23:24time and it gave me the opportunity to understand and appreciate what I have now made a lifelong

2:23:30commitment and a 24/7 life of saving lives, one patient at a time, one organ at a time.

2:23:37This is something that I think needs to be understood because I am just but one of hundreds

2:23:44of such stories that this body and this city should really appreciate and understand the

2:23:49asset that we have before us. As we go forward here, I would like for Council members to

2:23:59keep one thing in mind. Again, this is the critical part. Why is Harris and Burke create

2:24:05measurable value to the city of Cleveland? So today I'm not going to discuss about necessarily

2:24:11airplanes. This is a discussion about what jobs we can create, what investment we can

2:24:17make, what healthcare infrastructure we can complement to the health systems that we have

2:24:24within our community, and about why Lakefront matters to Cleveland's economic future. That

2:24:30is something that I think has been undervalued and not really brought to light. Because

2:24:36of the story of Harris is an ultimate Cleveland success story, it is very personal to me as

2:24:41I said because of the evolution of what brought me to this chamber today. Specifically, when

2:24:53you look at this map, you see that we operate throughout the United States currently, the

2:25:00Caribbean, and even beyond. But what I want you to really focus on is Cleveland. Every

2:25:06mission is coordinated from Cleveland. Every aircraft is supported from Cleveland. Aircraft

2:25:12depart from Cleveland. Missions originate from Cleveland. Dispatch is centered in Cleveland.

2:25:19Our maintenance is headquartered here in Cleveland. Revenues return to Cleveland.

2:25:23That means when our network expands, Cleveland benefits. And yes, today we may operate out

2:25:28of Rochester, Minnesota, Virginia, Atlanta, and half other cities, including recently

2:25:35opening in San Juan. But all that is focused and the central nervous system of our operation

2:25:41is here at Burke Lakefront Airport. That equates to jobs not being taken away from

2:25:50Cleveland but actually being created in Cleveland. And these jobs are high paying, professional

2:25:55jobs. Many people are surprised to learn that one of the world's most capable air

2:26:03medical transportation company is headquartered here in the Lakefront Airport. Our aircraft

2:26:10have operated across all six continents and have transversed over 180 countries. But

2:26:17the expertise behind the missions remains in Cleveland. Every mission represents Cleveland

2:26:23pilots, Cleveland maintenance technicians, Cleveland dispatch professionals, Cleveland

2:26:28operational leaders. When someone around the world uses our services, they are purchasing

2:26:34expertise that was built at Burke Lakefront Airport. I cannot underscore that. This economic,

2:26:41this is, I'm sorry, economic development. This is what I believe, again, means that

2:26:47we're not exporting or what we are exporting is a Cleveland based service on a global

2:26:51market. We are representing Cleveland in such a way that is very unique. We are the ambassadors

2:26:58of goodwill, expanding throughout the whole globe. And just for edification here, Atherosaviation

2:27:10itself, we are one of, there's hundreds of Medevac companies, but we are in the top five

2:27:15in terms of our capabilities with global authority with a safety management system.

2:27:22Back in 2008, the FA enacted a voluntary program. At that time, there was close to

2:27:28300 of us that are participating. By 2018, 10 years into it, there's only 16 still standing.

2:27:35That year, we were the only, the first and only Medevac company to achieve active conformance.

2:27:42Today, it will be mandated that by May of 2027, every airport, sorry, every air charter

2:27:48operator will have to have this SMS program. On the medical side, we have one of the highest

2:27:55accreditations and recognitions through NAMTA. On our operational side, flight side, we have

2:28:01Argus Platinum, which again, is a distinguished rating that we've held now for a consecutive

2:28:0614 years. And then of course, besides our operations that are based here out of the

2:28:11Cleveland Flight Standard District Office, we operate a full Part 135 operation, but

2:28:16also at Burke Lakefront, we maintain all of our airplanes through an FA approved 145

2:28:24repair station facility, also known as an MRO. By the numbers, the numbers on this

2:28:34slide represent more than aviation statistics. Yes, we have flown more than 140,000 flight

2:28:40hours. That's around, I think, 2,300 trips around the globe, about 12 flights, round

2:28:49trip flights to the Moon and back. Yes, we have transversed 15 million nautical miles,

2:28:54accident and incident free. And yes, we have touched about 180 countries. But behind each

2:29:00of those numbers are Cleveland jobs, Cleveland payroll, Cleveland vendors, Cleveland investment.

2:29:06For more than two decades, the business activity has originated from Burke Lakefront Airport.

2:29:16Every number on this slide represents a patient, a transplant recipient and a family facing

2:29:22very high medical crisis. To me, that is what pursued, pushed me in this endeavor.

2:29:29I am blessed and honored every day to take this responsibility in executing and delivering

2:29:35patients to destinations and organs to their recipients, where we make a difference in

2:29:40lives. When a donor organ needs to be moved across the country, when a critically ill

2:29:45patient needs special transport, when time literally means life, Burke Lakefront allows

2:29:52those missions to happen quickly and efficiently. I know there have been comments about, well,

2:29:59if we transplant what we do out of Lakefront to some other airport, what would that look

2:30:04like? It would not be plausible. Organs have a shelf life. It's known as ischemic time.

2:30:11By every minute, every second is vital to the successful outcome of the transplant and

2:30:19also to the viability of the organ getting to the patient. If we were to go to Lorain

2:30:24County, Cuyahoga County, Akron Canton, there's been suggestions by the administration, even

2:30:30Cleveland Hopkins, that will compromise and make difference in life and death in some

2:30:37or many instances. That is one of the unique things that we have here at Cleveland, as

2:30:42you saw. Within a matter of minutes, we can be at UH, Cleveland Clinic or Metro, depending

2:30:49if it's a trauma patient or what it is. Burke allows those missions to happen quickly and

2:30:55efficiently. That is why I often say that Burke is more than an aviation infrastructure.

2:31:02It is a healthcare infrastructure. By the way, the 45,000 lives that we've impacted,

2:31:11it does not take into account the totality of the families, the spouses, the children

2:31:15and the generations of family members that are impacted by those individuals that were

2:31:21under our care. Now, the economic impact. You recall, if you remember any slide, and

2:31:32I did leave for the members a little synopsis of my presentation, but if you will remember

2:31:39anything from what I've said today, I think this is one of those slides that should bring

2:31:44some consequence. Over the last two decades, Atheris has generated more than $64 million

2:31:50in direct economic contributions, vis-a-vis payroll, fuel, investment in the airport and

2:31:59facilities and lease payments that we make to the city. That is something that, again,

2:32:07a lot of folks out there don't even know that we exist, but that is a consequential

2:32:11contribution that we have made to the city, and that is jobs that are here in Cleveland.

2:32:19Those dollars were also engaged and spent here in Cleveland. Every aircraft movement

2:32:24creates economic activity. Every mission supports jobs, and every expansion produces additional

2:32:30investment that we are willing and continue to commit to Cleveland. So, what does the

2:32:37long-term investment look like for us? Assuming we have the privilege of continuing to be

2:32:43at Burke Lake Front for another 20 years and more, we are proposing to -- and I guess

2:32:53the way that I look at this is, we are not testing Cleveland. We have chosen Cleveland.

2:33:00We've invested in Cleveland, and Cleveland is our home. So, when we make these long-term

2:33:03commitments, it is not rhetoric. It is something that we can stand behind, decades of proof,

2:33:11and that we are ready to do when we are given the green light and at the support of the

2:33:15city, the council, and the administration. The jobs supported by our organization are

2:33:20highly skilled. They include pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, medical professionals, operational

2:33:26personnel. All of those folks have a demand at high salary, and that is where our payroll

2:33:35comes into play. These are exactly the type of jobs that I think any city would want

2:33:39to attract and retain. To summarize it, if we were able to stay here, we would construct

2:33:45new facilities, we would continue hiring professionals, we would enhance the emergent services that

2:33:52are needed that support the Cleveland Clinic and other systems in our community, and we

2:33:57will continue to have the commitment that we've been here for 20 years and we will

2:34:02continue to stay here for another 20. Now, the concept. This is where dreams are realized.

2:34:12Again, as a first-generation immigrant, a parent of an immigrant, started this business

2:34:20with a vision, $25,000 in my pocket, and a lot to lose. To me, this is now a much more

2:34:27bigger reality than what I've come to at this point. My vision of what we would like

2:34:33to see happen at Lakefront if we are given the opportunity is to build facilities to

2:34:39support technology, meet fleet modernization, infrastructure, and workflow development.

2:34:45In our plan, our goal would be to be LEED certified in terms of being eco-friendly.

2:34:51The fuel system that we would support our aircraft would be based on a SAF certified

2:34:58fuel farm, which is sustainable aviation fuel, which helps to be conscious in terms

2:35:04of lowering carbon emissions. We would expand our footprint with our maintenance capabilities

2:35:10and what we want to realize, what we call our Air Medical Control and Command Center.

2:35:16These are things that we're willing to do, but we need to have the support of the administration.

2:35:22By the way, I'm not here seeking investment. I'm willing to make that investment. What

2:35:27I'm here seeking is a commitment and appreciation and to work collectively, because again, I

2:35:32see this as a partnership. Cleveland and Ethereus and Burke Lakefront is what has

2:35:38made that possible, and I need to underscore that. This is not about you and us, about

2:35:43the administration and Burke Lakefront. It is the collective and what we can do moving

2:35:47forward to realize the asset that we have before us. Again, many people see Burke as

2:35:56just simply an airport. We see it as a critical infrastructure, where healthcare comes into

2:36:02place, transportation comes into place, economic infrastructure comes into place. What I also

2:36:08encourage the committee to think about is this question. What would happen? What would

2:36:12be the true cost in losing Burke Lakefront? Because of the loss of Burke Lakefront does

2:36:18not mean just simply removing a runway that's 6,000 feet. It would relate to loss in jobs,

2:36:26loss investment, lease revenues, relocating specialized services like what we perform

2:36:31that would have to go somewhere else or not exist, not to support the community. It could

2:36:35mean losing future economic opportunities that otherwise would remain in Cleveland and,

2:36:41as importantly, losing the integrity and compromising the safety of our national air traffic system

2:36:48as a reliever airport. That is a very consequential part when we're looking to the future. I think

2:36:52the FAA administrator recently has made his opinion known as it relates to that. So,

2:37:04I want to, again, underscore we are founded in Cleveland, we're ready to serve the world

2:37:09here, and how are we going to do this? For the last 20 years, the FAARS has been enabled

2:37:15to grow because Cleveland and Burke Lakefront. This has brought jobs are here, investment

2:37:21is here, maintenance is here, dispatch is here, our operational leadership is here,

2:37:25so therefore what we are simply asking is the opportunity to continue to grow and scale

2:37:30this to the next level as part of the community. The FAARS has proudly called Burke Lakefront

2:37:39home for 20 years. We'd like to believe that we can be here and be an asset to the community

2:37:46for 20 more years. With that, I will leave, except with one parting question, one comment

2:37:54that I think may even summarize this most appropriately. As I travel, find myself traveling

2:38:01to and from Cleveland, I have the opportunity to go through Lakefront, I mean, sorry, to

2:38:05go through Hopkins. And as you're going down the concourses, both the airport director

2:38:10and the mayor welcomes us back to Cleveland, highlights the benefits of being in Cleveland.

2:38:15But one of the most things that has really struck me and is a profound statement, and

2:38:19I quote the mayor, he says that airports, and I quote, "are gateways to the world,

2:38:26to innovation and discovery." So I would like to ask the question before the panel

2:38:30and the administration, if that is true, which I could not disagree at all, why would

2:38:36we take a bulldozer or wrecking ball and destroy the opportunity that we have and the asset

2:38:41that we have to the future of our community by destroying the gateway to the world, innovation

2:38:48and discovery? I mean, that is a contradiction that I just would like a clarification on.

2:38:53With that, I yield my time and thank you for the opportunity to come here today.

2:39:07Thank you, George. Next, we're going to go with Josh with Signature Aviation.

2:39:15Thank you, guys. Thank you for the opportunity. Again, my name is Josh Herman. I'm the general

2:39:19manager of Signature Aviation at Burke Lake Front. Signature operates the world's largest

2:39:23network of private aviation terminals with more than 200 locations globally and 122 in

2:39:29the United States alone. We serve business in general aviation aircraft as well as airlines,

2:39:34government agencies, and military operations. All of those two go through Burke Lake Front.

2:39:40That network gives us a broad view of what successful general aviation airports look

2:39:44like, what customers expect and what makes them choose one airport and one community

2:39:49over another. Signature opened our current Burke facility in 2016 following an approximately

2:39:56$9 million investment. Since then, we've invested another approximate $3.4 million,

2:40:03bringing our total investment since 2016 to more than $12 million. Today, we currently

2:40:09employ 18 people at our Burke Lake Front facility. We support more than 5,300 aircraft

2:40:16operations annually, and then we have 17 years remaining on our lease. Our operations are

2:40:24tracked a little bit different than the FAA, so the number is going to show a little bit

2:40:27different for the airport. We look at a landing and then take off as one operation rather

2:40:32than two separate ones. That's why that number is skewed a little bit. We have a significant

2:40:36stake in Burke's future. We also believe there is room to increase our presence, serve

2:40:41more customers, and invest further at this airport. Burke provides full service general

2:40:47aviation access just minutes from downtown Cleveland. For many of the customers we serve,

2:40:50our terminal is their point of entry for the city. They can quickly reach Cleveland's

2:40:55businesses, hospitals, hotels, restaurants, cultural institutions, and other downtown

2:41:00destinations. The economic activity associated with these flights extends beyond the airport.

2:41:05Our customers are doing business in Cleveland, staying in its hotels, visiting its institutions,

2:41:10and spending money in the community. We support more than just business travel. It's general

2:41:17charter travel, medical and other time-sensitive missions, government activity, tourism, and

2:41:22visitors attending major events in Cleveland. A very good example would be Brown's Football

2:41:26Sunday. Things along that line. We also have flight training and flight schools at Burke,

2:41:32and we also support those. Medical activity, as you'll hear a lot today, is particularly

2:41:37important at this location. So far, this year's signature has handled 2,119 verified medical

2:41:43flights. These missions can include transplant teams, organs, physicians, and other time-sensitive

2:41:48travel where proximity matters. This number does not include or represent the many flights

2:41:53the airport sees that are transporting passengers to Cleveland to visit those local hospitals

2:41:57or institutions. We recognize Hopkins and Cuyahoga County offer comparable accommodation

2:42:02for aircraft visiting Cleveland. But each of Signature's customers have made a choice

2:42:07about which airport is right for their visit. For the more than 5,300 operations we support

2:42:11each year, that choice is Burke. Customers and operators make that decision based on

2:42:16the needs of their trip, where they need to go, and the experience they receive when

2:42:19they arrive. Signature is a part of that choice. Operators know us from airports across

2:42:24the country and around the world, and they know the experience and professionalism that

2:42:28they can expect when they arrive at our facilities. When you combine Signature's experience and

2:42:33professionalism with Burke's unparalleled access to downtown Cleveland, the airport

2:42:37offers a potent competitive advantage. And we believe there is room to grow and improve

2:42:41and invest further at Burke. We appreciate Council looking at what more can be done

2:42:46with this airport. Signature has already demonstrated our willingness to invest here.

2:42:50We have invested more than $12 million at Burke since 2016, and we believe there is

2:42:54an opportunity to build on that investment. That could mean a few different things. It

2:42:57could be additional hangar capacity, more based aircraft for the airport, additional

2:43:02aviation businesses and services, greater use of Burke by companies and visitors coming

2:43:06to Cleveland, further investment in our facilities and customer experience, along with the additional

2:43:11employment for operational demand and facility management. More aircraft, additional facilities,

2:43:17and greater activity also create opportunities to grow employment and aviation careers here

2:43:21in Cleveland. As the largest aviation business on the field, Signature wants to help lead

2:43:27the conversation and work with the city and other airport stakeholders on Burke's future.

2:43:31Now if we look ahead, growth goes beyond addressing demand today. It also means envisioning

2:43:35our future and beginning the work to get there. This is an exciting time for aviation

2:43:40and the emergence of electric aircraft in a category of transportation broadly known

2:43:45as Advanced Air Mobility, or AAM as you'll hear. These aircraft are being developed

2:43:49with lower noise and no direct operating emissions and have the potential to create new connections

2:43:54between communities. Many of these aircraft also benefit from operating at existing airports.

2:44:00With aircraft capable of conventional takeoff, a runway can help preserve battery capacity,

2:44:07existing terminals, ramp space, and trained employees can serve passengers and help turn

2:44:11aircraft for their next flight. Signature is already working with many of these large

2:44:16manufacturers developing these aircraft, including Joby, Beta, Archer, Electra, even WISC as

2:44:22they prepare for their entry into service. Four Signature locations in the US have already

2:44:27installed electric aircraft chargers with more locations expected to follow as these

2:44:32aircraft move closer to broader commercial service. We as Signature are looking forward

2:44:38to readying our FBO at Burke for these new types of aircraft. Signature has already held

2:44:43discussions with the industry about bringing AAM to Burke. The first step is studying

2:44:47the airport and our FBO, looking at the facility and identifying an appropriate location for

2:44:53electric aircraft charging infrastructure. From there we will establish the commercial

2:44:57merits of the market by modeling potential demand and engaging operators that are evaluating

2:45:02how AAM aircraft may serve Cleveland and Northeast Ohio. That work will help us understand

2:45:09what infrastructure is needed specifically and where it should be located and how Burke

2:45:14could fit into that discussion with AAM. Over the next decade we expect electric aircraft

2:45:19to transition from the prototypes being tested today to an increasingly familiar presence

2:45:24at airports like Burke. Signature intends to be at the forefront of turning that transition

2:45:29into reality and we want Cleveland to be a part of that. Now our position is not that

2:45:36Burke should remain exactly how it is today. Cleveland has an aviation asset and a location

2:45:40that very few cities can replicate and establish a base of customers and businesses and tenants

2:45:47that see opportunities to grow. Signature has invested again more than $12 million

2:45:51at Burke since 2016. We've built a team here, support thousands of aircraft operations

2:45:55each year and believe there's an opportunity to build on that investment. We are ready

2:46:00to work with the city, the council and the FAA and our fellow airport tenants on a long-term

2:46:05plan that supports additional private investment, more aviation activity, employment growth

2:46:10and new technology at Burke. We see a future for Signature at Burke and we are invested

2:46:15in seeing what comes next. Thank you guys for your time and I appreciate it.

2:46:21Mr. Chairman, if it's okay with the distinguished gentleman here right now, can we get a copy

2:46:30of your statements so that we could also review that? Some of it is really good information

2:46:34and it's not presented here in the slides. Can we make those copies? Can I get a copy

2:46:38of your statement as well? Yeah, it actually included a summary of the comments I've been

2:46:44sending. Highlights? Is this it? Yeah, there was an insert. If we could get a copy that

2:46:50would help us tremendously. Because you did a good job. The clerk can help with anybody

2:46:54who might need her to make some Xeroxes, but I sense that there are some others who would

2:46:58be premature for her to pull them away. Mr. Lewis.

2:47:01Yeah, thank you, Josh. We're going to go with Drew and company with Argonaut. So Drew,

2:47:08take it away. Can we make a copy of that? Thank you, George.

2:47:12Good afternoon once again. I do have the pleasure of this opportunity to once again sit in

2:47:18front of this group and address the council advocating on behalf of the young people

2:47:23here in Cleveland. I do not have any slides. I don't have any prepared statement. What

2:47:29I do have is two students I'd like to start with their story. As we talk about shutting

2:47:34down an airport, I want you to first understand who's using it. And then I'll talk a little

2:47:41bit more about what that impact is and why this particular environment is so critical

2:47:47to the success of our kids. We'll start with Edward.

2:47:55Hello, my name is Edward Satello. I am a sophomore at Benjamin O. Davis Junior High School. When

2:48:01I finished high school, I aspire to be an aircraft mechanic in my time in the Argonaut

2:48:06programs such as their aviation club and many others. It has helped me to refine my

2:48:11passion for aviation and assure me that this is a career I want to pursue. The Cleveland

2:48:16Burke Lakefront Airport has played a part in my decision to pursue said career from

2:48:21field trips to community events. The airport has always been a hub for aviation since its

2:48:27grand opening on August 25, 1947, hosting events such as the Cleveland National Air

2:48:33Show since 1964. The Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport functions as a host and supports a

2:48:40hands-on learning environment for students such as myself. The airport has played an

2:48:46important role in developing my interest and my goal of becoming an aircraft mechanic.

2:48:52Through spending time down at the airport, community events, and seeing the different

2:48:57types of aircraft at the airport, I have been able to experience aviation up close.

2:49:04The airport is more than just a place where planes take off and land. It's a place where

2:49:09people can learn about aviation and discover careers in the industry. Because of my experiences

2:49:16at the Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport, it has helped me to realize that aviation

2:49:21is the career path I want to pursue and has motivated me to continue learning and working

2:49:27towards my future goals. That's all. Good afternoon. My name is Sam, or Samuel. I'm

2:49:44a senior at Benjamin O. Davis Junior High School, formerly Davis Aerospace Maritime.

2:49:49I started in 23-24 year and I originally came to this school with the intentions of

2:49:54graduating with my pilot's license with the help of Argonaut as my flight school. I'm

2:50:00currently training with a bunch of wonderful individuals. We have our own little plane

2:50:05down at the airport with a hangar. But coming from younger people, when just the opportunity

2:50:13to have something that close, because there's not a lot of airports near schools to begin

2:50:19with and even though we are across the highway in an ideal world, we'd be on the airport

2:50:24itself in an actual building on campus. But there's just not a lot of opportunities for

2:50:32young individuals to get close with aviation. A lot of people don't even know or understand

2:50:38it. A lot of people haven't even been to the air show that's held every year. I talk

2:50:41to people all the time and they're like, "I've never been. I just hear them practicing."

2:50:46It's just a lot of opportunities for people of all ages to use that airport. I just think

2:50:52that's important.

2:51:00And so as I mentioned before, I left my career in aviation as a chief pilot, Metro Life

2:51:08Flight. I flew for the Cleveland Clinic, did Air Medical for years, because part of

2:51:13my job was recruiting people to fill the many jobs in aerospace and aviation here

2:51:17in Cleveland, and not once did I hire someone from Cleveland. These jobs, we had to recruit

2:51:23people from other states, other cities, and it's such an epic miss. We have more than

2:51:29200 companies just here in Keio County, Northeast Ohio that serve aerospace and maritime industry.

2:51:36Ohio is the number one supplier of components and parts. We don't build the bowings and

2:51:42the air buses here, but we provide all the parts, more so than any other state in the

2:51:45United States. And the classroom where a child will prosper in getting into aerospace is

2:51:55not our traditional classroom. We're in a very challenging time where public school

2:52:01funding is being cut. We can fight that. We are fighting that. However, we can't sacrifice

2:52:08our current generation of kids to say, "Well, the money's not there. We're going to give

2:52:12you a second rate. We're going to give you the next best thing. We're going to put 50

2:52:16kids in a classroom with a dry erase board and say, "Let's dream about flight." That

2:52:21is a lack of fulfillment of a promise. It's a lack of fulfillment of obligation. Anytime

2:52:27we talk about Cleveland schools and Cleveland, we always say, "Well, we're underserved.

2:52:31Kids are underserved." We don't want that label. These are aerospace professionals.

2:52:38How many people in this room can fly an airplane? All right, we got one? This dude

2:52:44flies an airplane, right? This is a kid in CMSD. We've got kids now who graduated many

2:52:49years ago that are flying at United Airlines who've moved on in just four to five years.

2:52:55We're talking about salaries, $75,000 and up. All right, this is transformational.

2:53:04I was not a great student. I always cause trouble as a child. I still do as an adult.

2:53:13However, I recognize that my success to go into aviation, to become a mariner was through

2:53:24good support, but also real world experiences. I did not learn in a classroom. Put me in

2:53:32a plane. Put me in a helicopter. I was top of my class. Upon graduation, I went to Tri-C,

2:53:39finished as a top of my class firefighter. There's certain youth that are definitely

2:53:45in the city and all around that engage in more high exciting career aspirations.

2:53:52Argonaut fulfills the role. First, we go out into the community. We reach out to community

2:53:57organizations. We work with younger kids. We talk about dreaming. You have to aspire.

2:54:05The very first thing we define ourselves is we build adventurers. This isn't a jobs

2:54:10program. We don't say, hey, if you work this job, you get this amount of money. The kids

2:54:14like me, the types of kids I know will be successful, they don't want to be taught

2:54:18a job. They want to find their job. When you set up a classroom on an airport where

2:54:25jets are taken off, where in the middle of your lecture, you got to stop for 40 seconds

2:54:32because there's an F-18 taking off or coming in, and then you smell it. You feel the vibration.

2:54:38You smell the jet fuel, right? Everyone clears out of the classroom, looks out the window

2:54:43and sees the jet. That's not a failure. We are in the right place. Sam, Edward, this

2:54:48is what their motivation is. So as they grow passionate and they say, you know, this is

2:54:54something I didn't know about or this is something I knew about, but now I love this. I want

2:54:59to be in this industry. Help me find where I'm going to go. These guys have everything

2:55:05at Tasteway Successful. We are not creating success. All we are doing is setting an environment

2:55:11in which our successful students that live in this city and surrounding suburbs can

2:55:16be successful. They can identify what their future is and be passionate about it from

2:55:22ninth grade for 20 years, 25 years, 30 years. This city did a good job with the original

2:55:29Aviation High School, which now sits as a monument. Starting in 1976, the Aviation High

2:55:36School produced the aerospace industry. We have folks now retiring from leadership positions

2:55:41at NASA here in Cleveland, CMSD graduates, Benjamin O. Davis High School. We have folks

2:55:48at the FAA who now, when I have to go get an airplane registered, I call them up and

2:55:52say, hey, can you help me get this through? You know, yay, Benjamin O. Davis, right?

2:55:56I've got to find these alumni that are out there, but we have demonstrated the success

2:56:01of a thriving airport, of thriving educations on this airport. And what we're asking now

2:56:07is, you know, I've literally just walked away from a deal. We were going to build some

2:56:13new facilities off the airport, but after speaking to some council people, after speaking

2:56:17to other folks, we're pausing. You know, we have 10 to $20 million to invest in a facility

2:56:24that will be tuition-free, public, high school education, connecting kids to jobs, $75,000

2:56:34and up, keeping them here, getting them more money, and having them be happy, passionate

2:56:42residents of this town. So what I truly ask, and I know that there isn't anything on the

2:56:50table to close the airport currently, but having been here for the last 16 years fighting

2:56:56for the school, we don't normally get notification. We get told when something's already happened

2:57:01and then asked to make it right. And so we have to go into this eyes wide open. There

2:57:08are powers that be that are still hell bent on shutting this airport down. We've got

2:57:14lots of parks. We've only got one airport. The day you remove an airport from Cleveland

2:57:19and you remove access during a school day from our students and say, "Well, you got

2:57:24to go an hour away," that no longer becomes viable for our students. And we say, "You

2:57:28know what? Aerospace isn't for you. In Cleveland, you got to work one of these jobs that's

2:57:33local." So I thank you for your time. I do look forward to question and answer. These

2:57:39two gentlemen are ready to go. I think, what an amazing speech, a sophomore. He's a way

2:57:45better student than I was and I really, I want you guys to understand just what we have

2:57:52here and how our kids are already demonstrating on such a small scale what success is. If

2:57:58we did this right, if we got an investment in this airport, we moved the campus onto

2:58:03the airport. What could we do? How could we change this town? Thank you.

2:58:08Thank you, Mr. Ferguson and Sam and Edward. You're both very impressive students. I think

2:58:12you're going to go far. Councilman Jones, to my right, is a graduation of the Aviation

2:58:16High School, so let this be a warning. If you go left when you meant to go right, you

2:58:20could end up a politician. So eye on the prize, guys. Eye on the prize. I'll turn

2:58:26it back to Mr. Lewis. I sense we have a couple more presentations if we could get through

2:58:29them moderately quickly because I know people are very eager for questions as well.

2:58:32Yes. So next will be Mr. Alex Gertson with NBAA and I'll let him take it away.

2:58:37Again, thank you for the opportunity to present. I would like to tell you a tale of an airport.

2:58:47It will start sounding very familiar to what we are dealing with today and you'll see

2:58:54a very positive ending and hopefully we can write that same ending for Berkley Front Airport.

2:59:01When I first saw this airport about eight years ago, I saw a very historic terminal

2:59:09that has greatly deteriorated but was still struggling to be used. As you can see, windows

2:59:15boarded up inside. They had a pipe burst and it destroyed the insides of this beautiful

2:59:23historic building. When I went out on the airfield with the airport manager, I saw

2:59:28signs that were broken, overgrown with grass. Hanger doors, as you can see, rusted. Some

2:59:34of them don't even open and many of the hangers weren't occupied and not able to receive

2:59:41revenue for the airport because the doors were either broken or rusted in.

2:59:46In its heyday, about 100 years ago, this airport now called Coleman A. Young International

2:59:53Airport in Detroit, just across the lake here, about a 30-minute flight.

3:00:00This was the gem of Detroit and served the city similar to Burke but a little bit further away from downtown, it is a key business aviation hub.

3:00:14And as I started working with the advocates, with the users of that airport, I was drawn to this headline in the Detroit News, "Cities Airport Future May Not Involve Flying."

3:00:29Sounds very familiar. This is a lot of the headlines we see in the news here today in Cleveland.

3:00:36We all came together, Kyle's group, AOPA, NBAA, a number of other groups that were mentioned during the opening statement.

3:00:46And of course, very importantly, all of the local interests, all of the local users, very similar to the representation here.

3:00:53So many similar interests who so deeply care about aviation, about the airport, and most importantly, about Detroit's future.

3:01:04The mayor and city council made it happen. They made a 180 degree turn.

3:01:10They saw that there was value investing in the airport and growing the airport and building the airport and strategically thinking about its future as an airport,

3:01:22as an incredible asset that their predecessors have invested so hard and worked so hard to protect, preserve, and grow to this day.

3:01:33It is so precious to be entering into the 2020s as a major city with an airport downtown or so close to downtown.

3:01:42As you know, if you look around, there is no place to build a new airport that would be so close.

3:01:48And so many cities are now envious of this. Josh spoke about advanced air mobility, about all of these opportunities of electric aircraft and new ways to connect downtown to downtown, downtown to the world.

3:02:02And we have that here in Cleveland just like they recognized they had that in Detroit.

3:02:08So what they did was they started investing.

3:02:12They went to outflight, which is a fixed space operator, very similar to Signature. They worked with them to sign a 30 year lease so that they could create a new facility.

3:02:26And ultimately, this is the headline, cutting a ribbon on a new facility, first one in 60 years.

3:02:34So that airport had the opportunity to overcome that. We can do that here in Cleveland as well.

3:02:40This is the contrast. The new this was just built and opened earlier this year.

3:02:47This flight hangar and facility and the old historic terminal. Isn't that amazing?

3:02:53This is the rendering of of what the facility is, a ground side where you have parking opportunity to arrive, a hangar that stores aircraft, a beautiful terminal.

3:03:06There's another new facility that is being built as the result of redevelopment and just open in July.

3:03:14This is my flight. It's a helicopter facility.

3:03:16And if you walk in, you would see so many Detroiters coming in to take a flight on the helicopter.

3:03:23And you may think, well, taking a flight on the helicopter, that's really costly.

3:03:28How are all these people here? Because they don't look like they're taking out lots of cash.

3:03:34Well, the proximity of the airport to downtown, it only takes a couple of minutes for the helicopter to get downtown.

3:03:41And then it takes just three to four minutes to to do the helicopter tour to really get your senses overwhelmed.

3:03:48So in in about seven minutes or so, you can have this amazing experience and therefore it's so affordable.

3:03:55Again, proximity, the value of that Burke brings as well.

3:04:00Of course, we talk about the Benjamin Davis High School here.

3:04:05They have a Benjamin Davis High School as well.

3:04:09And they have just moved in to the airport, the old terminal where the fixed space operator was once the new facility was built.

3:04:18Now that is transitioning to the high school. Very similar to the opportunities here.

3:04:25They were operating out of the old terminal that the ski gearman.

3:04:28They also have this this hangar where you can see classroom facilities.

3:04:32They have an amazing stem lab that the ski gear presence there is very strong.

3:04:37It's very special to see so many underprivileged kids who are able to be welcomed onto the airport to find friends who are lifting them literally.

3:04:49They get to they get to fly rather than falling prey to drugs and other negative influences.

3:04:58The airport can play that really important role.

3:05:02The way that they did that is they planned.

3:05:05Kyle talked about the master planning process. Detroit went through what's called an A.L.P., an airport layout plan.

3:05:11It was a little bit of a shorter process, but nonetheless, you have very capable staff in the in the airport system that can guide that.

3:05:20And again, that's all funded through the FAA.

3:05:23So no city funds potential need to be expanded.

3:05:27Then the certainty and leases enabled them to have investment and to have pathway to public capital as well as private capital connecting education and the community.

3:05:43So, again, long term leases are a very important.

3:05:47George, if I were to ask you, how long is your lease currently annually?

3:05:54And we only have one more extension.

3:05:56So we have after 2008, I mean, 2028 at the current situation, just wait and see.

3:06:04For many of you who have run businesses, you know that if you're trying to get a loan, if you're trying to plan,

3:06:09if you're trying to fix a leak in the roof and you know that you may only be there for a year, how do you invest to do a comprehensive repair?

3:06:17How do you maintain your building?

3:06:18How do you tell the employees that there is certainty?

3:06:21That is all very critical.

3:06:23And that is something that all of us collectively need to work on.

3:06:27We mentioned the education.

3:06:29That is such a critical component.

3:06:32We have so much opportunity in aviation as 100 years ago when aviation was was just starting out.

3:06:39It was exciting. Well, guess what?

3:06:41It is even more exciting now.

3:06:42We have all of these great technologies.

3:06:44If you look inside an aircraft, it is glass cockpits.

3:06:49We have electronic displays.

3:06:51The future is is in aviation.

3:06:54We're launching things to the moon.

3:06:55Those things don't start after college.

3:06:58They start before you get to high school.

3:07:01They start by being able to go to the air show here and get inspired.

3:07:04They start with high school education that allows you to then pursue these jobs and start early on.

3:07:14Wanted to close with a bit of a personal story.

3:07:18I have the privilege, as many of us do in aviation, to channel my passion to be a pilot,

3:07:22to be also a charter captain where I get to participate in Oregon flights and other flights.

3:07:31This was me flying in yesterday.

3:07:32As you can see, it was a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

3:07:37You have an amazing runway here, a runway 24R.

3:07:42That's what brought me here.

3:07:44Just steps from City Hall where we're sitting today.

3:07:48This is what the airport looked like arriving last night around 630.

3:07:53I wanted to share this because I know this is not the site that you often get to see, but us pilots.

3:07:59This is the world that we get to see.

3:08:00We get to see a runway.

3:08:02We get to see downtown.

3:08:03We get to see hospital.

3:08:04We get to see businesses all literally steps away.

3:08:08We can walk from here and get on a flight and go anywhere in the world.

3:08:14That is the gem that you have here.

3:08:18Many times I have come here and this picture is taken at night because a lot of you will know

3:08:24a lot of the Oregon transport flights happen at night.

3:08:27So in my charter pilot capacity, I've had a chance to fly in on this small jet, the

3:08:32vision jet, bringing in organs or actually picking organs up and taking them to people

3:08:39in other places to save lives.

3:08:42This was a recent trip that I took.

3:08:44This was a surgeon with a heart.

3:08:46We're picking up a heart that was just driven in.

3:08:49Again, the drive time is very important that we're able to preserve with Burke.

3:08:54This gets put on the plane, the two pilots are working in unison so that as the organ

3:08:59is arriving, we are running all the checklists as soon as the organ is placed on the aircraft.

3:09:06We close the doors.

3:09:07We're taxiing.

3:09:08The tower works with us so that we're airborne as quickly as possible.

3:09:12Every minute, every second matters.

3:09:15To think about extending the drive, to think about creating additional distance between

3:09:23the lifeline that makes this organ viable to get to a person by air is not a smart idea.

3:09:33You might be familiar, one of the other times I came here was 2020.

3:09:38Very familiar sight.

3:09:39We're all wearing those COVID masks, but there was a relay that took place.

3:09:46There was a torch that was flown by pilots.

3:09:49Many AOPA members and private pilots all teamed up across the country and they all flew this

3:09:56torch from San Diego all the way to Washington, D.C.

3:10:00I was privileged just by happy stance to be assigned to pick up the torch here in Cleveland

3:10:04and we took the photos with the medical professionals right in front of the terminal at Burke.

3:10:09I flew it to Buffalo to hand it off to the next pilot.

3:10:17As we look at this beautiful airport, this photo was taken departing Burke.

3:10:21As you may know, when you depart Burke, you get a turn right over the lake and you climb

3:10:25over the lake and then you come back and you see this amazing sight where you see a

3:10:30city with an airport right there, this beautiful portal, this amazing opportunity to take off

3:10:39of that runway, runway 24R or 6L that has a customs facility there and it's truly connected

3:10:47to the world.

3:10:49Flights can take off from there, go anywhere in the globe or return and come into Cleveland

3:10:56right there as well.

3:10:58So as I close, I want to make sure that as we work together, we secure the future of

3:11:03aviation in Cleveland and preserve this waterfront, a beautiful downtown with an amazing, powerful

3:11:10airport.

3:11:12This airport has a very unique superpower by being so close to downtown.

3:11:16Let's acknowledge it.

3:11:17Let's preserve it.

3:11:18Let's work together.

3:11:24Yeah.

3:11:25Christian, go ahead and follow on.

3:11:26Yep.

3:11:27I will do my best to be brief.

3:11:28I appreciate everybody's time.

3:11:30Thank you guys for the opportunity to speak.

3:11:33Really quick, I'm going to go a little off script to talk about something that's somewhat

3:11:35personal to me about this.

3:11:37My family business, TAS Aviation, we're from rural northwest Ohio.

3:11:43I always say that I'm the grandson of really poor farmers who had not a lot and made something

3:11:48out of their life because they like machinery and got to work on airplanes.

3:11:53So one of the reasons I kind of jokingly always say that I was even able to go to college,

3:11:58I'm a Kent State alum, so northeast Ohio is sort of a second home for me, is because

3:12:03of Burke Lakefront.

3:12:04So we had a small contract that kind of gave us literally any kind of money to move on

3:12:09the business.

3:12:10And we flew in and out of here every night doing cargo operations, Federal Reserve operations

3:12:14out of Detroit City and over to Burke every night from all over the Great Lakes.

3:12:19So I spent a lot of time listening to my uncle and my grandfather and my mother talk about

3:12:24the many, many, many stories of Burke Lakefront and it always resonated fondly with me.

3:12:29So for what that is worth, I thought I would say that.

3:12:32But onto the business aviation side of things, as I mentioned with Ohio Regional Business

3:12:35Aviation Association, our organization represents the business aviation community throughout

3:12:40Ohio including aircraft operators, flight departments, fixed space operators like Signature

3:12:46and so on.

3:12:47Our perspective is inherently a regional one.

3:12:50We work with business aviation businesses and airport stakeholders across Ohio to interact

3:12:55with the broader aviation community throughout the Great Lakes region.

3:12:58That gives us a perspective that extends beyond just this airport or one specific municipality.

3:13:03So from our perspective, one thing is very clear.

3:13:06Airports do not operate in isolation, I believe someone else mentioned that as well.

3:13:10They're a part of a greater connected system that moves people and businesses, medical

3:13:14resources, workers and investment throughout Ohio, across the Great Lakes and ultimately

3:13:19throughout the United States and the world.

3:13:21A change of one airport can affect the airports around it.

3:13:24Businesses make decisions about where to base aircraft, operators determine where they can

3:13:27efficiently serve customers, flight schools and aviation businesses consider where infrastructure

3:13:32and workforce are available.

3:13:34This is why Burke Lakefront matters.

3:13:37Burke is important for business in Cleveland and beyond the city limits.

3:13:40Burke is a Cleveland airport but is also a piece of that aviation infrastructure that

3:13:44I mentioned.

3:13:45As the final speaker today, I have the benefit of hearing the testimony that came before

3:13:49me.

3:13:50Rather than repeat what you've already heard, I'm sure I'll kind of cover some of those

3:13:53topics, I want to take a step back and connect the points that have been made today because

3:13:57I think they tell a much bigger story about the airport.

3:13:59You've heard directly from businesses and operators who have made investments at Burke

3:14:03and who depend on the airport to conduct their business.

3:14:06You've heard about the aircraft and the employees and the leases and services that make up

3:14:10the airport's existing ecosystem.

3:14:12You've heard about medical transportation, workforce development and flight training

3:14:15and you've heard the role that Burke plays in the community here in Northeast Ohio.

3:14:19Burke's done that since 1947 and has federally and state obligated to continue to stay open

3:14:24and operate safely through at least 2039.

3:14:27The city as the airport sponsor has made these commitments to the government and has made

3:14:31least commitments to its tenants into the 2040s.

3:14:34The FAA and the senators here from Ohio have all spoken and are standing up to protect

3:14:39Burke's future.

3:14:40We have to keep this in mind.

3:14:42Today we do not have a binary choice to decide if Burke is to close or to remain open.

3:14:47Our focus should be on the growth and investment into one of Cleveland's most valuable assets

3:14:51as Alex just discussed.

3:14:53So many cities are envious of Cleveland, having the early vision to build a downtown airport,

3:14:59something that really could not have happened now.

3:15:02Again, the testimony you've heard today demonstrates something important.

3:15:05Burke is not an abstract piece of waterfront property, it's an infrastructure that people

3:15:09are actively using and investing in today and it starts with that investment.

3:15:14Airports require sustained investment, sustained investment.

3:15:17Some of that investment comes from the public sector through infrastructure and facilities

3:15:20but significant amounts come from the private sector as we already heard from Atheris.

3:15:26Businesses invest in all of this infrastructure and operators invest in aircraft and employees

3:15:30and service providers like our company invest in facilities and capabilities.

3:15:35Those decisions are made with the expectation that infrastructure they depend on will remain

3:15:39available long enough to justify the investment.

3:15:43That is where certainty becomes so important.

3:15:45A business is unlikely to make a significant long-term investment when it does not have

3:15:48a reasonable understanding of whether the underlying infrastructure will still be there.

3:15:53In other words, there's time and there is an opportunity to determine what the success

3:15:58for the future of Burke Lakefront will look like.

3:16:02And that begins with, I'm sorry, and that brings back to the real users of the airport.

3:16:09The testimony today has demonstrated that these are not hypothetical users.

3:16:13Businesses are operating at Burke right now.

3:16:15Operators are serving customers right now and students are learning there right now

3:16:19and employees are working there right now.

3:16:22From an operator's perspective, the question isn't simply whether Burke can continue

3:16:25doing exactly what it does today.

3:16:27The more productive question is what conditions would allow those businesses to invest more,

3:16:31attract new users, and grow.

3:16:33That's where the airport's regional business value becomes particularly important.

3:16:37Business aviation is ultimately about connectivity.

3:16:41Companies use airports because access to aviation helps them conduct their businesses

3:16:44more efficiently.

3:16:46Burke's location just steps from downtown Cleveland, gives Northeast Ohio something

3:16:50that is difficult to recreate somewhere else.

3:16:53Direct aviation access to the region's business, medical, and institutional and cultural center,

3:16:58and that matters beyond Cleveland.

3:17:00Northeast Ohio is a part of a larger economic network that stretches throughout Ohio and

3:17:04the Great Lakes.

3:17:06Aviation helps bring those markets, those investments, and those jobs to Cleveland.

3:17:10Burke provides another point of access in this regional economy.

3:17:13The state's recent economic analysis, which Kyle touched on, estimated approximately

3:17:18$195 million in direct annual economic activity associated with Burke and 650 direct jobs.

3:17:24But the economic value of an airport is not limited to the activity that occurs on the

3:17:28airport itself.

3:17:30Aviation infrastructure connects businesses to customers, companies to employees, communities

3:17:34to medical resources, and Ohio to the broader national and international economy.

3:17:40That regional connectivity is why ORBA believes Burke deserves to be considered not simply

3:17:44as a Cleveland asset, but as part of the broader aviation infrastructure supporting

3:17:48Northeast Ohio, the state of Ohio, and the Great Lakes region.

3:17:51I want to read a quick testimony from one of our members, business members, Owens Corning,

3:17:57who had this to say of Burke.

3:17:58Owens Corning is an Ohio-based company that has operated in the state for more than 70

3:18:03years.

3:18:04With 10 Ohio locations and approximately 2,500 employees, the company also spent more

3:18:08than $736 million in Ohio suppliers, with Ohio suppliers, in 2025.

3:18:14Owens Corning values transportation infrastructure that supports our operations, employees, customers,

3:18:19and business partners.

3:18:21Access to efficient air transportation helps connect our business to customers and operations

3:18:25throughout the region and across the country, and it contributes to the ease of doing business

3:18:29in Ohio.

3:18:30The operators who have testified today also give us an important perspective on what is

3:18:33required for that infrastructure to succeed.

3:18:37They understand the practical realities of operating an airport.

3:18:39They know what their customers need, where infrastructure needs to improve, and what

3:18:44kind of certainty would make additional investment possible.

3:18:48That experience should be a part of the city's conversation about Burke's future, and the

3:18:52value of that conversation extends beyond business aviation.

3:18:56We've heard about medical transportation, flight training, and workforce development.

3:19:00Those uses demonstrate that Burke is part of that larger community ecosystem.

3:19:06An airport can be a place where someone begins an aviation career, where a patient is transported

3:19:10for critical medical care, where a business reaches a customer, and where a new aviation

3:19:14professional receives their first opportunity in the industry.

3:19:17These workforce and health care connections are regional as well.

3:19:20The people who train at Burke don't necessarily live in Cleveland.

3:19:23The patients transported through the airport don't necessarily come from Cleveland.

3:19:27The businesses using the airports certainly do not operate only within Cleveland.

3:19:32That is precisely why regional aviation infrastructure matters.

3:19:35We also saw evidence of that broader community connection during this year's Cleveland Air

3:19:38Show, National Air Show.

3:19:41Supporters of Burke collected more than 1,300 signatures from members of the public in support

3:19:45of keeping the airport open.

3:19:47As you know, the Air Show will cease to exist without Burke.

3:19:51These people were not necessarily tenants or pilots.

3:19:53They were members of the public who recognized Burke as part of Cleveland's lakefront,

3:19:57its aviation heritage, and its community.

3:19:59That is another important reminder that the value of an airport cannot always be measured

3:20:03in the number of passengers who walk through the terminal, or the number of takeoffs and

3:20:08landings its runway facilitate.

3:20:10Sometimes it's measured by the medical flights that get a patient where they need to go.

3:20:14Sometimes it's measured in the student that gets their first aviation experience.

3:20:17Sometimes it's measured in the employee whose career began at an airport or a child who's

3:20:20inspired by STEM at the Cleveland Air Show.

3:20:23Sometimes it's simply measured by people taking the time to say that the infrastructure

3:20:26matters to their community.

3:20:29That brings me to what I believe is the most important part of the discussion, which is

3:20:32the opportunity.

3:20:33There's been a lot of talk about this, but the future of Burke does not have to mean

3:20:36simply maintaining the airport exactly as it operates today.

3:20:40Aviation is rapidly changing, and Cleveland has an opportunity to think about what its

3:20:44infrastructure could support in the future.

3:20:47One example is an Advanced Air Mobility, or AAM.

3:20:50The FAA is already planning for the integration, as Signature mentioned, new electric and highly

3:20:55automated aircraft, and recognizes that early AAM operations may leverage existing airports

3:21:00and heliports with the modifications where necessary alongside new infrastructures such

3:21:05as vertiports.

3:21:06That is very significant for Burke because the airport already has many of the features,

3:21:11many of the things that the future aviation infrastructure would otherwise have to establish

3:21:15from the ground up.

3:21:16Runways, taxiways, airspace, businesses, train personnel, the list goes on.

3:21:22This raises a broader question.

3:21:24What opportunities could Cleveland create by modernizing and leveraging the aviation

3:21:27infrastructure it already has, rather than assuming that the future of aviation needs

3:21:31will require starting from scratch, like many other cities will have to do?

3:21:36Perhaps that means expanding existing operations.

3:21:38Perhaps it means attracting new aviation businesses.

3:21:41Perhaps it means investing in infrastructure that encourages private capital.

3:21:45As Burke is part of the regional aviation system, the benefits of that investment could

3:21:48extend well beyond Cleveland.

3:21:50Stronger Burke could mean more connectivity for Northeast Ohio businesses, more opportunities

3:21:54for aviation companies, more workforce development, and a stronger platform for emerging aviation

3:21:59technologies throughout Ohio and the Great Lakes region.

3:22:02We don't know exactly what aviation will look like in 2035 or 2040 to recognize the

3:22:08value of preserving the infrastructure that gives Cleveland, Ohio and the Great Lakes

3:22:11region the ability to participate in the future.

3:22:14That ultimately is what the testimony has demonstrated.

3:22:17Investments require certainty, where certainty makes it possible for real users to commit

3:22:21capital.

3:22:22From ORBA's perspective, the last point is very essential.

3:22:26When one airport changes, the effects do not necessarily stop at the airport fence.

3:22:31Businesses adjust where they base aircraft, operators adjust the routes and destinations

3:22:35that they choose, workforce opportunities shift, and medical and emergency aviation

3:22:39has to consider alternatives.

3:22:41Other airports may have to absorb additional demand.

3:22:44That is why decisions about significant infrastructure should be considered not only in terms of

3:22:48the property in and of itself here in Cleveland, but in terms of the regional system that

3:22:52it supports.

3:22:53Cleveland already has this foundation.

3:22:54It has an airport, existing operators and businesses, aviation infrastructure in a

3:23:00strategic downtown location, and a significant public and private investment already in place.

3:23:04It also has an opportunity to determine what that infrastructure can become.

3:23:09ORBA is not here to suggest that Burke has no challenges, nor are we suggesting that

3:23:13the airport's future should be simply frozen in place.

3:23:16We are asking the city to approach these challenges as an investment in economic development

3:23:21question.

3:23:22What would happen if Cleveland created greater certainty for aviation businesses?

3:23:26What would happen if infrastructure investment were paired with private sector investment?

3:23:30What would happen if the city worked with the businesses already committed to Burke

3:23:34to identify the opportunity for additional growth, like we heard earlier?

3:23:38What would happen if Cleveland planned not only for the aviation economy of today, but

3:23:42for the aviation economy of 2035, 2040, and beyond?

3:23:46If you'd like to see a little bit more about what the coalition of businesses and operators

3:23:50and community voices that have signed up to participate in support of Burke, you could

3:23:54check out saveberklakefront.org, which is a website that the MBWA has created to capture

3:24:00those things with our participation.

3:24:02Because ultimately the decision that Cleveland has, Cleveland is about more than 450 acres

3:24:07of waterfront.

3:24:08It's about whether Cleveland wants to retain the aviation infrastructure that gives this

3:24:12city, this region, and in this state, options for business, healthcare, workforce development,

3:24:18emerging technologies, and future investment.

3:24:20And in aviation, options have value.

3:24:23The message to be taken away from this hearing is simple.

3:24:26Preserve and develop Cleveland-Burke Lakefront Airport, prioritize connectivity and economic

3:24:31opportunity and protect Cleveland's future.

3:24:33I appreciate your time.

3:24:34Thank you so much.

3:24:36Thank you.

3:24:38And thank you to everyone who has presented.

3:24:40Before we jump over to questions, we have one per cal if you want to come up.

3:24:43We have one person signed up for public comment if you go to the end.

3:24:47To those on council and listening, Halid Bahur is a former city employee that worked

3:24:53for many years for the Department of Port Control, including as Commissioner of Burke

3:24:57Airport.

3:24:58Cal, we normally give three minutes for public comment.

3:25:03Use that as a, I'm not going to be hyper-specific out of respect, and since there's only one

3:25:07person.

3:25:08But I think we are eager to get to questions though, so don't push it.

3:25:10Absolutely.

3:25:11Thank you, Mr. Chairman and distinguished committee.

3:25:14It's good to be back home.

3:25:16As Drew mentioned, as he mentioned about himself, I'm also a graduate of the Cleveland

3:25:21School District, and I was always in trouble as well.

3:25:24So here we go.

3:25:27One of the things that I'd like to highlight about Burke Lakefront Airport is you can't

3:25:32separate the airport from Hopkins.

3:25:36Burke Airport is an extension of Hopkins Airport.

3:25:38It is designated as a reliever airport, which basically means that we want GA traffic outside

3:25:45of the Hopkins airspace.

3:25:46That airspace is so valuable, and the integrity of that airspace is so valuable, that you

3:25:52don't want these types of helicopters and small planes mixed in with the high performance

3:25:57aircraft at Hopkins Airport.

3:25:59Because what it ends up doing, it ends up separations on the ground, extended separations

3:26:05in the air, and it also will, the airlines will question, "Wait a minute, do I want

3:26:10to continue growing at Hopkins Airport because now we have helicopters and small aircraft

3:26:15and all these things going on at that airport?"

3:26:18The airlines will reevaluate.

3:26:21One of the things, misconceptions about Burke Lakefront Airport, the airfield is a very

3:26:24sophisticated airfield.

3:26:26There's been significant investments made in the airfield over the past number of years,

3:26:30from all-weather runways to extensions of the runways, extensions of taxiways.

3:26:37The airport has an active master plan, and so the master plan, what it would allow you

3:26:43to do, it's basically a blueprint of what the airport could look like or should look

3:26:47like.

3:26:49You can re-prioritize the master plan.

3:26:51There's a lot of development real estate at Burke Lakefront Airport for mixed-use

3:26:55development.

3:26:56A number of years ago, I was able to attract software developers to incubate at the airport.

3:27:02If you remember Lean Dog and a number of other tech companies in the terminal, so the

3:27:08terminal was completely leased out.

3:27:11What does one airplane operation at Burke Airport, what does it mean?

3:27:16If you remember Ultimate Air Shuttle, Ultimate Air Shuttle was flying from Cleveland to

3:27:20Cincinnati.

3:27:22We went from just the one Ultimate Air Shuttle, 15,000 passengers a year, from $150,000

3:27:28in entitlement dollars to approximately $750,000 in entitlement dollars to the airport.

3:27:36The air show, there are communities around the country and around the world that would

3:27:40salivate to have an air show, to have an active air show at their airport.

3:27:46I get that all the time.

3:27:48Really, we presented a plan a number of years ago, and we've had a significant interest

3:27:54from airlines that want to do business at Burke Lakefront Airport, that want to bring

3:27:59large aircraft.

3:28:00This specific organization wanted to redeploy three 737 MAX aircraft to Burke Lakefront

3:28:07Airport and fly to underserved markets.

3:28:12There's a lot of discussion, "Well, Burke Lakefront Airport serves billionaires and

3:28:15millionaires."

3:28:16Well, so does Hopkins.

3:28:18It's breaking news.

3:28:20It's not as simple as that.

3:28:23You have to look at the entire airport and its totality as to how it fits into the grand

3:28:28scheme of things.

3:28:30It's not just a, "Let's kill Burke Lakefront Airport by 1,000 cuts."

3:28:35At the rate we're going, yeah, it will die.

3:28:38I get calls all the time, "Hey, is Burke still open?

3:28:41Well, I don't work there anymore," but it's still open.

3:28:45I hope that, and I know to reassure my friends here at this side of the table, you are in

3:28:51good hands with this City Council.

3:28:54We have an amazing council president.

3:28:55We have an amazing chair and a very distinguished group here.

3:28:59They're going to evaluate and make the right decisions.

3:29:02Thank you.

3:29:04Thank you, Cal.

3:29:05It's good to see you.

3:29:06Thank you all again for coming, and I have said throughout this entire process to borrow

3:29:12your words.

3:29:13I'm not personally bringing a lot of emotion to this.

3:29:17It's not just because I'm emotionally dead inside, but to me, I think there's a universal

3:29:23agreement, it sounds like, that Burke, as it currently operates, is not the highest

3:29:28and best use for the City of Cleveland.

3:29:31The question of, "Is that highest best use an elevated airport or an entirely different

3:29:39land use?" is where the conversation gets interesting, and all along, I've been looking

3:29:45at and trying to maintain along the idealism to pragmatism continuum, what I want, maybe

3:29:54in hindsight, what I build an airport along the lakefront in the year 2026, perhaps not,

3:29:59but I feel compelled to be more pragmatic than I want to be sometimes and recognize

3:30:05that there's a need to understand how to play the best hand based on the cards you

3:30:10have, not the cards you want.

3:30:12To me, this is all about a learning experience, and if a decision were to come, feeling that

3:30:17I have gone and done my due diligence to make an educated decision.

3:30:22When I only ask one question, I don't want you to think that I'm reducing this all to

3:30:25one question.

3:30:26Really, it's out of an abundance of respect for my colleagues who I know are eager to

3:30:32ask their own, but I would like to understand, and I'm going to look at you, Kyle, but you

3:30:37can punt it to whomever, trying to understand the specific regulations around a reliever

3:30:43airport.

3:30:44Because one of the arguments has been that whatever happens at Burke today could easily

3:30:48shift towards Hopkins County or elsewhere, and I guess what I would like to understand

3:30:55is one, what requirements are there for what a reliever airport is, and frankly right now

3:31:04does a county meet that definition?

3:31:06I just think that that's a useful thing to know.

3:31:09And then also, I'm trying to understand, I think we've all had the experience of getting

3:31:15a 10 p.m. flight out of Charlotte and waiting in line with 5,000 other American Airlines

3:31:22jets trying to take off for the evening rush.

3:31:25It's very understandable why you would want a reliever airport at Charlotte, right?

3:31:28Because you don't want small Cessnas mucking up that line of commercial traffic.

3:31:33I've also flown very often in a previous life into Johnson City, Tennessee.

3:31:38There's absolutely no reason why American Airlines and Cessnas can't co-mingle there

3:31:42because it's a much quieter airport.

3:31:44So I'm trying to understand in addition to what are the requirements for what is a reliever

3:31:49airport, when does an airport like Hopkins begin to require, or I guess there's need

3:31:58and require a reliever airport because of the volume of commercial traffic?

3:32:03And we're trying to understand as we grow Hopkins, do we want to and are we able to

3:32:09incorporate additional uses from Burke?

3:32:14Is that ideal?

3:32:15I'm assuming you're going to say no, I'm also interested in is it feasible and is

3:32:22it practical?

3:32:23Is it allowable?

3:32:25So through the chair, I'm going to deflect, not deflect, but delegate to Cal since he

3:32:30has expertise in reliever airports in the Cleveland system, explain perhaps why Burke

3:32:36is a designated reliever for Hopkins.

3:32:39And then if you want, maybe we can talk about smaller airports like Johnson City, Tennessee,

3:32:43you know, O'Clare, Wisconsin, that has essential air service that doesn't have a reliever.

3:32:47So we can maybe tag team that question, but go ahead.

3:32:55Thank you, Kyle.

3:32:56I mean, it's important to understand that Cleveland, Hopkins, the airspace over Cleveland

3:33:00is the busiest airspace in the country, if not most of the world.

3:33:04And the ground, the surface at Hopkins airport is very valuable and the airspace above Hopkins

3:33:11is very valuable.

3:33:13And the objective of a reliever airport in this situation, in this case, is to take that

3:33:18traffic outside of the Hopkins mix and bring it to Burke Lakefront Airport.

3:33:23If you were to close Burke today, I would suspect that the FAA would require the city

3:33:28or the Hopkins to conduct another master plan to compensate for the closure and to

3:33:36see what impact it will have at Hopkins.

3:33:39The impact could possibly potentially be, well, you know what, now we have to build

3:33:43new facilities that we didn't have planned or we haven't budgeted for.

3:33:47And so those facilities will have to go back and be constructed.

3:33:51And as you know, aviation assets are very expensive to construct.

3:33:56So just in a nutshell, I think that's the essence of the concept, is to take that.

3:34:04And if you remember recently in Washington where a helicopter ran into an aircraft arriving

3:34:11at, in Washington, that's what we want to avoid in this situation because it becomes

3:34:15a very, you know, the airport has two or three different environments, right?

3:34:20It has the daytime flying, it has a nighttime flying and it has weather flying and all

3:34:25three are very different and, you know, and that's what you want.

3:34:29You don't want that at Hopkins airport.

3:34:35So to provide some further context with that, we do have a letter from Natka, which is

3:34:40the National Association of Air Traffic Controllers.

3:34:43They could not be here today to present a person, but we do have some more context

3:34:45around that.

3:34:48If I could just take two minutes to read that.

3:34:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:34:51Dear Chairman Slife, the Natka Air Traffic Controllers Association, Natka, strongly

3:34:57supports preserving aviation surfaces at Burke Lake Front Airport and respectfully

3:35:02requests that this letter be read into the record during the upcoming hearing of the

3:35:06Transportation and Mobility Committee today.

3:35:09Natka joins the many additional aviation stakeholders who have also taken public positions

3:35:15opposing the closure of Burke Lake Front Airport, including the National Business

3:35:19Aviation Association, which represents thousands of members who rely on general aviation aircraft

3:35:24to successfully run their businesses.

3:35:26Natka also strongly supports U.S. Senators Bernie Moreno and John Husted in their opposition

3:35:31to closing Burke.

3:35:33Natka believes that closing Burke would have significant negative effects on air traffic

3:35:38operations both in and around Cleveland, throughout Northeast Ohio, and across the National Air

3:35:44Space System, the NAS.

3:35:46As the primary reliever airport for Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport, BKL supports many different

3:35:52types of aircraft such as general aviation, business aviation, recreational aviation,

3:35:57Medevac flights, private charter operations, and flight-cool training, among others.

3:36:03As a result, shuttering BKL would disrupt air traffic operations by increasing the

3:36:08volume and complexity of those operations at CLE and the other nearby airports.

3:36:13In particular, CLE would also need to absorb this unique mix of air traffic operations

3:36:19and safely integrate it with its existing high-capacity commercial aviation services.

3:36:25This combination alone would result in increased taxi times, flight delays, and operational

3:36:30costs for major airlines, all of which would negatively affect the flying public.

3:36:36And as we have witnessed in recent years, when air traffic operations are stretched

3:36:40to the limit at major airports across the country, those inefficiencies and delays have

3:36:45cascading negative effects at many airports across the National Air Space System.

3:36:51As a result, closing BKL would not be the best interest of aviation safety, NAS efficiency,

3:36:57capacity, or the American flying public, and Natka urges every member of the Transportation

3:37:02Mobility Committee to vote to keep BKL open.

3:37:06And this is signed by Dean von Alman, Natka Great Lakes Regional Vice President.

3:37:11Thank you, Alex.

3:37:12And to summarize the reliever, the FAA does use a matrix to quantify reliever status

3:37:18as part of the NIPIS, that N-P-I-A-S designation.

3:37:22It could come with capacity of both the reliever-designated airport and the primary airport, like Hopkins.

3:37:29It could be based on runway lengths, number of operations per hour at Hopkins.

3:37:35So it's more of a, I don't want to say nebulous, but it's a matrix the FAA uses to designate

3:37:40reliever airports.

3:37:41If you go to Johnson City, Tennessee, Eau Claire, Wisconsin, you know, Manistee, Michigan,

3:37:46for example, they have commercial service, but they're primarily a general aviation

3:37:51airport already.

3:37:52They're not seeing the number of flights that Cleveland-Hopkins would see.

3:37:55They're seeing one or two per day, which is not a huge impact on the system.

3:37:58Sure.

3:37:59Thank you.

3:38:00Joe, quick follow-up.

3:38:01I could just follow up, so the FAA uses different designations to designate airports, depending

3:38:08on the number of enplaned passengers.

3:38:10And so Cleveland-Hopkins is a large hub airport by the number of passengers that they enplain.

3:38:18And therefore, it requires a reliever airport.

3:38:21And if we look at Cuyahoga County or some of the other airports, they are already busy

3:38:25with the traffic.

3:38:26They don't have the runway length or the capacity that Burke has.

3:38:30And so to move all those operations there would just overstretch that system even more

3:38:36if that helps.

3:38:37Okay.

3:38:38Thank you.

3:38:39And if you could pass on, thank you for reading that letter.

3:38:40If you could pass on to them again that there's no imminent vote about this, this is all purely

3:38:45informative.

3:38:46I just want to hammer that home as much as we can.

3:38:48And also to comment, thank you, Cal, I have also always heard that Cleveland's airspace

3:38:53is the busiest in the country.

3:38:54It's worth passing on to people that that's because of also the number of flights flying

3:38:58across the country, not necessarily people flying directly into the Cleveland market,

3:39:04although apparently Taylor Swift might add into that now, ruin our air quality designation.

3:39:11My wife's going to be angry at me for that.

3:39:14Thank you.

3:39:15That's helpful.

3:39:16Before I kick it over, I will just say one of my points of interest has been in a world

3:39:22where we made a decision to close Burke today, but knowing that there's still federal grant

3:39:29obligations, there's a scenario where we would have to basically wind down operations,

3:39:35maintain the airport to meet our grant requirements, but also understand we can't take on additional

3:39:42federal dollars if we were wanting to close the airport, and what is the math behind

3:39:46all that.

3:39:47I think something that is abstract and unanswerable right now, but worth kind of putting on the

3:39:52table and thinking through is if Burke were no longer a reliever airport, would there

3:39:57be costs on the other side of that decision to fulfill improvements to Hopkins or county

3:40:06or elsewhere, and how would those be born?

3:40:08So that's something that I hadn't thought about previously, so it's useful to bring

3:40:12up.

3:40:13With that, Councilman Polensik, would you like me to cue up your at-bat music?

3:40:17I'd be first batter up, man, okay.

3:40:23First of all, I want to thank the Chairman and the committee for hosting this event and

3:40:29bringing everyone to the table who were in support of Burke Airport.

3:40:33I'm glad to see Commissioner Cal here as an outstanding commissioner at Burke Airport.

3:40:38In fact, I've had two of the previous commissioners prior to Commissioner Cal call me as well

3:40:43to indicate he couldn't be here today, but he strongly supports maintaining Burke Airport.

3:40:49Let me just say this to my brothers and sisters and those of you at the table.

3:40:53I can't for the life of me, I support Burke Airport.

3:40:57I've always supported Burke Airport.

3:40:59I can't understand for the life of me who's advising the mayor.

3:41:03I'm becoming more and more concerned not only about this but other issues in the city

3:41:10where he's getting his advice from, who's advising him, and I'm becoming more concerned

3:41:15that he might be advising himself.

3:41:17That really concerns me.

3:41:19When you look at Burke Airport and you look at the possibilities, the $17.9 million of

3:41:24economic impact, the 2.3 million in tax revenue, the fact that we still owe, we'd have to

3:41:31pay back 7.1 million to the feds just on the most recent dollars that we have received.

3:41:41So I'm looking at it from a standpoint as what a major developer just said to me recently.

3:41:46He said, Councilman, what you need to understand and your colleagues need to understand, we

3:41:52need job creation in the City of Cleveland.

3:41:55If you have a job, you can buy a home.

3:41:58You can lease a home.

3:42:00You can buy a car.

3:42:01You can lease a car.

3:42:03You can provide opportunities for your family.

3:42:06And then with that comes other investment and retail investment in your neighborhoods.

3:42:12And so he said, I mean, look at the suburbs, the suburbs that have retail, have development.

3:42:19What's the common denominator in all those suburbs?

3:42:22They have jobs.

3:42:23The people who live there have jobs.

3:42:25We have got to get back to the point in this city where we realize that job creation is

3:42:31the most important thing that we need to do.

3:42:33I remind my colleagues, I came in with our 33 Councilmen, now they're 15 due to the population

3:42:39loss.

3:42:40There's been a major shift out of the city.

3:42:42We heard at the earlier committee right here, chaired by Councilman Slice, and again I

3:42:47appreciate that discussion.

3:42:50What did they say at this table?

3:42:52They need a 49-year lease, because that's the only way they can attract businesses to

3:43:00the IX Center.

3:43:03This administration will not extend leases at Burke Airport, doesn't want to get any

3:43:08investment at Burke Airport, which is mind-boggling to me.

3:43:13I was here when they created Aviation High School.

3:43:15I was going to ask these young men, where is it at now?

3:43:20Where is it at?

3:43:27I believe it's 14th and Lakeside.

3:43:3014th and Lakeside.

3:43:32Across the street from the airport, when it should be in the airport, that was our vision

3:43:39and our goal to link academic excellence to aviation excellence here.

3:43:46That was what we wanted here.

3:43:48That's why I was named after Benjamin O. Davis, a great man from what we call the

3:43:55Red Tails.

3:43:59That's right, baby.

3:44:00I read all about them, because they played a major role in defending this country from

3:44:05fascism.

3:44:08When they came back to this country, we're not treated as true Americans.

3:44:12I look at Burke Airport as being an economic engine, an economic engine.

3:44:19When I asked the administration at this very table with their demolition by neglect plan,

3:44:26because that's what it is, let's just be honest about it.

3:44:29It's the same thing we've seen with the schools in the city.

3:44:31You don't invest in them, you don't put anything in them, and then you say, "Well,

3:44:34we've got to close them," because nobody wants to come to the school.

3:44:37Same thing at Burke Airport.

3:44:39Do not provide any opportunities for investment or expansion.

3:44:43"Well, no one's using Burke, no one's using Burke.

3:44:47We've got to get rid of it."

3:44:49When I asked at the table, "What would the park cost?"

3:44:54The park with the two golf courses and the other things that they want to put down.

3:44:58In fact, we've got a golf course now that we can't make work now with the city, which

3:45:02we have to subsidize, but nobody wants to talk about that one.

3:45:06We subsidized the convention center across street, but I don't see them talking about

3:45:10closing the convention center.

3:45:13That cost was $607 million.6 million to redevelop Burke Airport.

3:45:20My comment to them was, when I asked again to expand upon it, and where's that money

3:45:27going to come from, and to represent a mayor's set at the table, it's going to come from

3:45:31the private sector.

3:45:33My comment, if you go back and look, and I said, "If you believe in that, you believe

3:45:37in the Easter Bunny."

3:45:40Nobody in the private sector is going to put $600 million on the lakefront.

3:45:46We're struggling with downtown.

3:45:48We're told at the table 33 buildings are either in foreclosure or facing foreclosure

3:45:54in the downtown area.

3:45:57The business community is going to step up and plow that in?

3:45:59No, it's not going to happen.

3:46:01You know that, and I know.

3:46:02Whatever would go down there, we would have to subsidize the living hell out of it.

3:46:07And I'm not about to do that.

3:46:09So this is what I want to state for the record and for those of you here.

3:46:13The council has never voted to kill Burke Airport.

3:46:17There's no piece of legislation pending before us.

3:46:20We've never voted.

3:46:21And that's why I find it so troubling and disturbing is the senior member of this body

3:46:24at the mayor's in Washington, and he has Jimmy Haslund in Washington trying to kill

3:46:29the airport.

3:46:31Now figure that one out for the life of me.

3:46:33I don't know if this was part of the two Cokes and Bratton Hall at his house, part

3:46:37of that deal.

3:46:40We don't know, but we know he's in Washington lobbying to kill Burke Airport.

3:46:45We know that for a fact.

3:46:47So does the Haslund group, are they supposed to get a piece of the airport, a piece of

3:46:52the airport property?

3:46:53I don't know.

3:46:54Burke Airport can be an economic engine.

3:46:59The late Pat Parker, God bless his soul, he wanted to build hangers down there in the

3:47:05day and they wouldn't let him do it.

3:47:08They wouldn't let him do it.

3:47:10For what reason, I don't know.

3:47:12But Burke Airport needs to be enhanced.

3:47:15We need to invest in Burke Airport.

3:47:17We need to create jobs.

3:47:18We need to link those jobs to our kids in the city of Cleveland.

3:47:24Aviation High School needs to be back at Burke Airport.

3:47:26I mean, for the life of me, I don't understand who's making these decisions and the path

3:47:32that we're on in this city because we keep losing and we're losing.

3:47:36And I look at the gentleman across the hall who's worried about, I don't worry, was this

3:47:41week maybe about climate change or somewhere.

3:47:45I don't get it.

3:47:48Our residents need jobs.

3:47:50Look at the population.

3:47:51Look at the disinvestment.

3:47:53Look at the poverty levels.

3:47:56The congressional district is the poorest congressional district in the state of Ohio.

3:48:04The poorest congressional district in the state of Ohio here that we sit in at this

3:48:08very moment.

3:48:10I don't know what I can say more to my colleagues and to the general public and to those of

3:48:16you here.

3:48:17We've got to make it clear to the administration we're not going to give up Burke Airport.

3:48:20We want investment.

3:48:22We want job creation.

3:48:24We have the ability to do parks elsewhere.

3:48:27When you have a job and you have opportunities, then you can have your parks.

3:48:32But maybe they think that, well, let's, you know, everybody can ride a bike because they

3:48:37won't have a job, okay?

3:48:39Put everybody on a bike so they don't have a job, okay?

3:48:43That's the way the mindset around here.

3:48:46I'm here to support Burke.

3:48:47I'm here to lobby for Burke Airport to keep it open.

3:48:49And I've asked officially during the budget, and I'm going to restate for this committee

3:48:54and for the leadership, that Burke Airport be segregated out.

3:48:58We need to see how the finance is on Burke because we're told that Burke loses all this

3:49:04money and we know that's not correct because it doesn't come out of the general fund at

3:49:07all, not a nickel to my knowledge comes out of the general fund.

3:49:10So we need to see how Burke stands alone.

3:49:13We segregated out the Westside Market and other city facilities over the years, the

3:49:18golf course and other things, so we could see the council could see for ourselves what

3:49:23the real costs are, what the revenue streams are, what the costs are.

3:49:28We have a right to know that.

3:49:29And again, I made that request to the council president and our staff.

3:49:35My friends and neighbors, something's wrong here.

3:49:41We need growth.

3:49:42We need jobs.

3:49:43With jobs come taxes, and we have taxes, we can do things in our neighborhoods.

3:49:48And if we can grow Burke Airport properly, then we're all going to benefit.

3:49:53I rest my case, my honorable colleagues, and again, thank all of you, and I'm going to

3:49:57really thank Commissioner Cal for coming down because he was an outstanding commissioner.

3:50:02And we need to listen to people who have the knowledge.

3:50:06Thank you very much.

3:50:09Thank you, Councilman Palencic.

3:50:10You have 30 seconds left.

3:50:12Go Burke.

3:50:13Okay.

3:50:14All right, I have next on the list Councilman Kasey, followed by Harsh.

3:50:19Is there anyone else who would like on that, Davis, maybe?

3:50:24Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:50:25Mr. Chairman, either Cal or any of our presenters here today, does anybody know if the airlines

3:50:31are supportive of closing Burke?

3:50:34We were informed that the airlines were in fact supportive of closing Burke.

3:50:38Do you have any other information aside from what we were told?

3:50:44I mean, I'll take a stab at that.

3:50:47From conversations we've had across the industry, there is no support for closing Burke Airport,

3:50:53including from the airlines because as stated, Cal stated, and from the letters that we've

3:50:59read, would create congestion and issues at Hopkins.

3:51:04So no, there is no support in the aviation industry for closing Burke.

3:51:08In fact, it was stated publicly, I think, in Crain's business magazine that Avello

3:51:13Airlines still wants to look at leasing space at Burke to operate.

3:51:18So there's an airline interested in Burke.

3:51:20So Cal, you probably answered this one.

3:51:22So when the administration says at the table, the airlines are in favor of supporting the

3:51:29closing of Burke.

3:51:32When we say the airlines, who are the airlines?

3:51:36Who would that be?

3:51:37Would that be the FAA or would that be maybe each individual airline themselves?

3:51:44Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, if it's the FAA, I know for a fact the FAA is opposed

3:51:51to closing the airport throughout their entire system.

3:51:55So I know it's not the FAA.

3:51:57And if it is the airlines, it would probably be the individual airlines that currently

3:52:01operate in and out of Hopkins Airport.

3:52:04I have talked to a couple of them and they are opposed to closing the airport for the

3:52:10reason stated, the creation of congestion and other assets that would have to be constructed

3:52:15at the airport.

3:52:16All right.

3:52:18Thanks, Cal.

3:52:19Does anybody know if Burke has an active airport layout plan?

3:52:26Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, yes.

3:52:29When I left, Burke had an active airport layout plan and an active master plan, which

3:52:34basically lays out and the FAA requires you to have an active master plan.

3:52:41I believe it's every five years, four or five years.

3:52:43And that master plan gives you somewhat of a blueprint of what the airport needs will

3:52:48be in the short term and in the future.

3:52:51What we presented was a mixed use development master plan, which basically would have some

3:52:56development around the edges along the water.

3:52:59And you could re-prioritize a master plan because what ends up happening, the closer

3:53:03you are to the runway, the shorter the buildings become.

3:53:06And what we could do or could have been done was to decommission that taxiway and the

3:53:13buildings get higher.

3:53:14And then you can develop in the parking lot.

3:53:16So there's a lot of stuff in the master plan.

3:53:19More than just being an airport could be down at Burke.

3:53:23You can put restaurants, a micro hotel, some low level buildings in front of the terminal

3:53:29building.

3:53:30You can have a coffee shop.

3:53:32There was interest by a national franchise to put a coffee shop at the Burke parking

3:53:38lot, not only to cater to the airport, but to cater to downtown.

3:53:43And it would kind of be like tucked away.

3:53:44People can come down, do their business.

3:53:47Do we know what year that master plan or that layout plan was?

3:53:53I don't know the exact date, but there's a thing when you try to kill an airport.

3:54:01Let's do another master plan.

3:54:02Let's do another master plan.

3:54:03Well, the master plan, you can do a master plan, and then you can update the master

3:54:07plan as needed.

3:54:10But to my knowledge, there is an active master plan that basically identifies all of the

3:54:17things that we talked about today.

3:54:18And do we know having a master plan, because we know one of the options is just to let

3:54:23all the grants run out so that we owe no money back to Burke.

3:54:28When you do a master plan, is that included in that?

3:54:31Is that a gift, or is that something that the airport, I guess it would be the airlines

3:54:36paying for it?

3:54:37So if you do a master plan, somebody has to pay for it, correct?

3:54:41Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, typically the FAA will provide you grant money to conduct

3:54:45a master plan, a pretty comprehensive master plan.

3:54:49It's a very prescribed process that the FAA requires, not just something, well, you know,

3:54:54we're going to do a master plan, call a few people.

3:54:56It's a very prescribed process that takes a look at the entire aviation asset, but

3:55:02also takes a look at other airports around the area as well.

3:55:06And so it's very comprehensive.

3:55:07All right, Mr. Chairman, to Sir, I didn't catch your name, so I apologize to Mr. Kancikas.

3:55:16You indicated that the administration will not extend your lease past a year or two.

3:55:24And I think you said that your current lease ends in 2028, is that what you said?

3:55:28Correct.

3:55:29It's currently under an annual lease, it'll be used every August.

3:55:33And that goes up until 2028.

3:55:37So we are on our second to last lease.

3:55:42The administration has not expressed any interest in discussing what will happen beyond 2028,

3:55:48but that is correct.

3:55:49So right now you're operating.

3:55:50How long have you been on an annual lease?

3:55:54For I think about five years now.

3:55:56So since this current administration came in, right?

3:55:58A long time.

3:55:59All right.

3:56:00And then when you go to sign that lease, are you given a reason as to why they won't

3:56:06sign the long term lease?

3:56:08There's no specific reason given.

3:56:12All right.

3:56:13Well, listen, in the mindset of I'm very supportive of not closing Burke, I do not

3:56:20want to close Burke.

3:56:22I think that because I personally feel that we're getting backdoored by the administration

3:56:29over the Burke situation, that we're going to wake up one day, and it's going to be

3:56:34a Chicago, right?

3:56:35It's going to be just, it's going to be bulldozed.

3:56:38And I think that those kind of thoughts are on the administration's mind.

3:56:43And that's exactly where they're going.

3:56:46And I do believe it's time for the council as a whole to have the conversation about

3:56:50where we see Burke in the future and make that known to people who also make that decision.

3:56:58Obviously, in Washington and not here.

3:57:02And now that I've learned today that it's for the kids, right?

3:57:06We never threw that aspect into it, and who doesn't like kids aside from me?

3:57:13But some of my colleagues love kids, right?

3:57:16And now I get to say to them, hey, it's for the kids too now, right?

3:57:20And I never took that, I never, I mean, I never looked at it from that perspective.

3:57:24So YouTube being here today made an impact, whether you believe it or not, right, Star?

3:57:30Yes, they do.

3:57:32Yeah, okay.

3:57:33So again, anything I can do to be supportive of keeping Burke open, I don't, you know,

3:57:38again, we just went through two hours of a boondoggle situation that's occurring out

3:57:45by Burke Park, and we need 49 years and we don't want to invest in something in the inner

3:57:50core of our city.

3:57:52That just is mind boggling to me, that the administration is so far right on one situation

3:57:58and then so far left on another situation, where this is the one I think that really

3:58:03matters.

3:58:05This could be an economic engine to the city.

3:58:09Somebody had a vision a long time ago to put the airport there, and they were right

3:58:14at the time, yeah, Burke, right.

3:58:19You know, and there's a reason it's there, and there's a reason that it's unique to

3:58:25the country, right, to have to have an airport in your downtown on a lake.

3:58:31And I just think we need to further invest in it and move it the other way as opposed

3:58:35to closing it.

3:58:36So that's my two cents.

3:58:37Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:58:38Thank you, Councilman Casey, Councilman Harsh.

3:58:42Thank you, Chairman.

3:58:43I'll try to be brief.

3:58:45As I say a lot, the three legged stool of any city is housing, education and jobs.

3:58:51Those are the three things you need to have to build a city.

3:58:54I asked a former council person a couple of years ago what they thought was the biggest

3:58:58untapped economic engine in northeast Ohio, someone I respect, and without hesitation

3:59:04they said aerospace.

3:59:06We have NASA, we have facilities around the big airport, and we have Burke on the front,

3:59:13on the lakefront, that we don't tap into enough for an economic engine and for job

3:59:17creation and growth.

3:59:18It seems from this presentation, Mr. Chair, that the worst thing you can say about Burke

3:59:22is that it loses $900,000 a year, which has also been pointed out as exactly how much

3:59:28Highland Golf Course loses.

3:59:30I like to pick on Highland because it's not in the city of Cleveland at all.

3:59:35And Highland is subsidized through the general fund.

3:59:37Actual taxpayers who pay taxes to the city of Cleveland see some of that money go to

3:59:41a golf course that sits a few suburbs east of our border.

3:59:45However, Burke is not subsidized by taxpayers.

3:59:47It's not subsidized by the general fund.

3:59:49It's actually subsidized by the airline industry, our customers down at Hopkins, which means

3:59:54that it is a zero loss for the taxpayers of Cleveland and we cannot fail to state

3:59:59that.

4:00:00Clearly, people in Cleveland need to know that they are not paying for any lack of revenue coming out of Burke.

4:00:07But as an economic engine, I think everybody gets an opportunity in this city to dream and to talk about the riches and wonders that lie ahead of us if we were to do their plans.

4:00:18So my question for the panel, whoever wants to jump in and answer this, I only have two questions. This is the first.

4:00:23With sufficient long-term leasing, with sufficient coordination with the FAA for a master plan, for a terminal update, and for control tower improvements, what is the potential economic impact of Burke?

4:00:40In a realistic scenario, if we were to do these couple of steps that are within our power to do, I'm looking at some of the revenue projections here on one of the earlier slides.

4:00:50What do you all think is the potential for economic development? 660 jobs now? Where could we go?

4:00:59I hate to go on the record and forecast I should be doing a different job.

4:01:08But the reality, so I can speak from history, not being a procrastinator of what could be.

4:01:15But I can tell you, I've been at this airport for 40 years. I have seen its potential.

4:01:22I am a prodigy of this airport. As I said, I started a vision and nothing more but $25,000, and today we are a multimillion-dollar global enterprise, all headquartered here in Cleveland.

4:01:35The personnel that we have here today account for probably a little bit over five, six percent of the total employment that's at the airport.

4:01:44We alone as a theorist, if we were to truly be allowed to have certainty to expand our operation, to invest as we need to, to expand going forward, we could very easily more than double plus our operations.

4:02:03So in the last 20 years, we contributed, say, 50 million or 65 million to the general economic engine of this community. Let's do the math.

4:02:16It's not consequential. We're not IBM. We're not Starbucks. But these are high professional jobs.

4:02:26These are jobs that new generation folks are looking to do here in Cleveland.

4:02:31That was the whole concept that we did with the Tuskegee Airmen and Congressman Stokes.

4:02:35We as aviators, there's something about us that connects us all. It is that ambition, it's that dream of what is beyond the horizon.

4:02:46And let me tell you, one of the most gratifying things that I was able to do is to go to East Tech High School where kids couldn't even make it to downtown and have a car or whatever.

4:03:00So we would coordinate how they would get to Lakefront and they would solo and go on their own on cross-country throughout the Ohio and have opportunities going forward.

4:03:09And through the chair, that's one company out of how many that operated Burke? You represent one company. There are other independent operators as well.

4:03:22Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, every aircraft that flies in and out of Burke is an independent business, if you will.

4:03:29You have a signature that invested a ton of money at Burke Lakefront Airport and then you have other assets that feed into the airport as independent businesses.

4:03:40You make an excellent point. Burke Airport, at a minimum, can be self-sustaining. At the best case scenario, it's making a ton of money.

4:03:52It's employing a lot of people and you're bringing world-class businesses to Cleveland. Just on one point, the concept of losing money and making money,

4:04:04the airport system is a residual airport, which basically means the airlines fund to the amount that you need.

4:04:11If it goes under budget, they give the money back to the airlines. If it goes above budget, the airlines put money in.

4:04:19So that the concept of losing money is somewhat subjective. That's the business model, the financial model at Hopkins Airport.

4:04:29So the concept of losing money, it's not losing money because no one's coming. We're losing money because it's by choice.

4:04:36And again, it's something that we've done ourselves.

4:04:43It works, I promise. There you go, Green.

4:04:48>> Go ahead, Drew. >> Through the chair to the Councilman. We talk a lot about speculation. I'm a terrible numbers guy.

4:04:55But I can tell you today there are 600 to 1,000 open aerospace jobs in Cuyahoga County.

4:05:01We have Airmen, we have Howmet, we have Eaton, we have Peru Dev Tech doing wheels and brakes.

4:05:10GE Aerospace is talking about expanding air. We're actually building parts of the spacecraft that are NASA's future to the moon.

4:05:17So we talk about Burke being the gate front to the world. It's actually the gate front to Cleveland.

4:05:23We are not connecting our kids, our community, their family members to these high paying jobs that are already here.

4:05:32And this is the portal. It is almost insulting to get people excited and say, "Oh yeah, you're opening an aviation high school again."

4:05:38Everyone thinks we're on the airport. We're not on the airport.

4:05:41They put us across the street, across a railroad, across a highway from the airport.

4:05:48And until we really commit and say, "You know what, we really do want our young people."

4:05:52And again, Argonaut doesn't just do the high school. We're doing post-secondary training now.

4:05:57We're talking about grades 13, 14 because these jobs are already here and these companies want to grow.

4:06:02So, you know, for me, it's not just what's happening and then the financial product in the airport.

4:06:09But it's best utilizing the airport, the space that's there to connect our community to those things.

4:06:15And air shows and kids having real access, build a small park on the airport where people can go sit and watch planes come and go.

4:06:23Building that passion, building that connection to this industry that is the second largest industry is important.

4:06:28Yeah, I appreciate you kind of got ahead of my question.

4:06:30I want to be clear through the Chair, the potential to increase the economic activity and the economic impact of Burke is very much available to us in this world.

4:06:40We can extend leases, we can do long-term, we can engage with the FAA and we can see job growth and economic development down there as it is right now.

4:06:49Everybody's nodding their heads yes.

4:06:51Correct.

4:06:52So, Mr. Chair, my second question was going to actually lead right into this.

4:06:55So, I was happy to join the students of Davis Maritime Aviation High School last year.

4:07:00They were the only high school that protested CMSD's cutting of school hours.

4:07:05CMSD wanted to put everybody on the same calendar and that actually reduced their academic day.

4:07:09And these students went down to the school board to protest.

4:07:13They wanted to stay in school longer.

4:07:15They wanted to have that longer day because they love what they're doing in this school so much.

4:07:19It means so much to these students.

4:07:21And I was glad that I was able to go down there and join them because I talked to a number of students at Davis.

4:07:25One student, and he's going to work in boats, but he is going from 18 years old high school graduation, a Cleveland Eastside kid, straight into an $80,000 a year job.

4:07:38The jobs that we are preparing students for down at Davis are real life changing middle class jobs.

4:07:44This is absolutely the dream that we had when we put together Davis Aerospace Maritime School many years ago.

4:07:54And I cringe that we throw this opportunity away to have that high school right on the airport itself when we've got the building.

4:08:02I see it all the time.

4:08:03So through the chair, my next question is, what does the future of aerospace look like in terms of like,

4:08:09and I know we're not here to rub crystal balls.

4:08:11We're not here to like, you know, get to science fictiony.

4:08:16But what are the future potential job growth in the aerospace industry if we really embrace the asset and start training kids to do this work?

4:08:24Obviously, we know we can fly a plane and we can fix a plane.

4:08:26That's cool.

4:08:27We'll do that right now.

4:08:28But what is the future of this industry?

4:08:30So I think I'll start out through the chair of the councilman.

4:08:34So Urban Air Mobility, AAM, Advanced Air Mobility is the electrification of aircraft.

4:08:39Think helicopters or a drone that can carry people.

4:08:43Right.

4:08:44This is already happening across the nation.

4:08:47These aircraft are working towards certification with the FAA,

4:08:50which is a very long process, very long and expensive process with the FAA.

4:08:55These manufacturers and they were mentioned earlier, Joby, Wisk, Archer.

4:09:01There's a slew.

4:09:01There's a slew of these right now that are that are going through certification.

4:09:05They're they're projecting Medivac operations, you know, inner city hospital to hospital drone delivery transporting of people Medivac or otherwise think Uber the skies.

4:09:17Right. That's getting a little bit further out.

4:09:19But they need facilities to operate these.

4:09:22You know, this is not go land in the parking lot behind, you know, McDonald's.

4:09:26This is they need facilities to maintain, which goes to the jobs.

4:09:30Right. You have to have the facilities to operate them.

4:09:33Signature in their testimony mentioned that they're willing to invest in charging stations into other infrastructure that's going to be required in the future for these aircraft.

4:09:43And it's going to be a different kind of technician.

4:09:46Right. The legacy aviation systems of piston aircraft and even turbine aircraft do not apply to these newer technologies.

4:09:55And Cleveland is positioned with the opportunity to be at the tip of the spear into this if there were investments made.

4:10:04Anybody else go ahead to the chair here to the councilman.

4:10:10I as a how do I put this representing the aviation business community who are the hires right of the future workforce but also being one of those aviation businesses, particularly in the maintenance side of things.

4:10:23I want to obviously we all are seemingly on the same page about the importance of that and what the Davis School is doing here and training that workforce.

4:10:32But I can't emphasize that enough because, you know, we talk about a you're going to still have to work on these airplanes comply with federal aviation mandates.

4:10:40But as Kyle just said, you know, there's going to be like the electrification of it.

4:10:44Right now you learn about a reciprocating engine, a turbine engine, the core concept of these.

4:10:50You know, right now our company is sitting in various meetings talking about what is aviation?

4:10:54Aviation maintenance look like in the future.

4:10:56It's electrification, it's electronics, it's all those types of things that we're seeing throughout the entire economy in different ways.

4:11:02But that I think is a future area when it comes to workforce.

4:11:05And I can't emphasize enough more that, you know, I recently read a statistic that don't quote me on this exactly, but it was something like 80 percent of the current AMP certified technicians will be retired in the next 2030, I think.

4:11:19Now we're replacing some of those, but we're at a huge deficit.

4:11:22So whether it's just the traditional jobs in aviation that we're trying to replace with this or if it's the future need for that, whatever that may look like, I can't emphasize enough again.

4:11:31Pilots are important, too.

4:11:32But from my seat, I think that's another area because you also need those certifications for building components.

4:11:38There's other areas that you need these kinds of certifications for.

4:11:42Well, well said. I think looking at technology, it's going to be everywhere inside the aircraft as part of avionics.

4:11:49So being able to be an electrical engineer is going to be really important.

4:11:55Ultimately, when we talk about advanced mobility, all of those companies, except for a few who are talking about autonomy, are talking about staffing them with pilots.

4:12:05And so these aircraft are going to be small.

4:12:07They're going to carry four to five people.

4:12:10That's a lot of pilots to transport those.

4:12:12If you think of Uber in the sky, I think that's a good analogy.

4:12:15Think of how many Uber drivers there are there.

4:12:17We're going to need that many more pilots.

4:12:19But ultimately, as Kylie very articulately pointed out, we're going to continue to need airports.

4:12:26The vertiports are going to be small.

4:12:28They're going to be used for takeoff and landing, picking up, dropping off passengers.

4:12:32Those aircraft will then need to go to a larger place where they can be serviced, where there are hangers, where there are parts and abilities to service them.

4:12:41But most importantly, it's all about connectivity.

4:12:44Those aircraft will go a short distance.

4:12:46We're going to continue to see fixed wing aircraft, the traditional aircraft, for many decades to come.

4:12:52And that is going to come together at a place like Burke.

4:12:55And to give you, you know, if you want a real world example, one of the manufacturers is investing Hawthorne, California, their airport.

4:13:06They signed a long term lease, obviously, but, you know, four hundred million dollars worth of investment at the Hawthorne, California airport specifically to support their their mission.

4:13:18As a centralized hub where they're going to be doing their testing, they're actually rolling out an FBO service and to support these aircraft.

4:13:26So the investments are being made currently by this new technology.

4:13:30And there's a lot of money behind it.

4:13:33So this isn't all pie in the sky.

4:13:35A lot of some of these things are further down the road, but the investments are happening now.

4:13:39Thank you.

4:13:41Thank you, Councilman Harsh.

4:13:42We have Councilman Starr, then Davis, and then I think Jones to take us home.

4:13:52Thank you, Chairman, for having this in depth conversation today. I think it's very important.

4:13:57And I think it's always important for us as a council to do our due diligence and learn the facts.

4:14:03One thing for certain, you learn the politics.

4:14:05You do not need to trust what others who are politicians say, because oftentimes you get half a story.

4:14:11And my mom and my grandparents will say, tell a half of the story.

4:14:14I mean, you tell them a lie.

4:14:16So when it comes to the Burke Airport is a very hot topic that has been going on for the last couple of years and months now, especially this year.

4:14:26One of the biggest questions that I often ask is prior to 2022, when it comes to the actual data,

4:14:35do we have data that shows that Burke was turning over a profit through the chair?

4:14:40And if so, how was that profit or how was that dollar amount for us to say, prior to this current administration, we've seen things that were in place

4:14:50that allowed the Burke Airport to actually turn over profit as opposed to becoming now subsidized with everyone to talk about today to the chair.

4:14:59Mr. Chair, to the councilman, unfortunately, we had a pandemic and we were on the trajectory with Ultimate Air Shuttle

4:15:11and a couple of other institutions to actually rapidly grow.

4:15:16At the time, Ultimate Air Shuttle was flying to Cincinnati.

4:15:21They were going to add two, I believe it was two more aircraft to Morristown, New Jersey and to somewhere in Chicago.

4:15:29And that would have been an amazing opportunity for Berkeley for an airport.

4:15:35Unfortunately, the pandemic hit and as you know, things went south really quick.

4:15:42Again, the discussion of closed Burke, keep Burke open, that's been going on for the 33 years that I've been with the airport system.

4:15:52And it doesn't help when it's a two year lease and you're talking to an investor that wants to bring in twenty, thirty million dollars worth of investment.

4:16:02And you tell them you have to advertise that over twenty twenty four month period. It's not going to happen.

4:16:07And so, you know, the airport, again, has struggled with that question.

4:16:14And I think once you put that question to bed, I think you're going to see opportunities as George alluded to.

4:16:20I know George has been George has wanted to develop his property for a number of years now.

4:16:26And I think once, you know, that happens, you're going to see some real some real development at the airport.

4:16:32It's not from lack of of people that want to do it. It's that hesitancy.

4:16:37Is it going to be an airport? Is it not going to be an airport?

4:16:40And one of the one of the one of the things that you can add at the airport, you can add ops centers.

4:16:45For example, you have organizations like Flight Options, a fractional ownership of aircraft.

4:16:50They take up space and they need ops centers and they need facilities to prepare.

4:16:56You know, there was also a time to talk to the Cleveland Clinic of putting a small little clinic at the airport.

4:17:03So when when you do have organs that come in, you can process, you know, the patients if immediately right there if needed.

4:17:11So there's a lot of things that can be done. And I think the limits are endless if we really put our minds to it and really push together to get this done.

4:17:22So basically, in a summary is there are opportunities for us to be able to be able to create a strategy to ensure that BERT can actually turn a profit and then be subsidized through the chair.

4:17:37To the chair, to the councilman, absolutely. I believe that if you, you know, once it's rolled out, I think you're going to have not only a lot of interest.

4:17:47I mean, you're going to have to go out and market, right? It's not going to.

4:17:50They're not going to just, you know, all of a sudden start knocking on our doors.

4:17:53We have to go market to them, develop a comprehensive marketing plan in conjunction with the city of Cleveland and the airport system and then in the region.

4:18:03Right? And so you would take that and you'd start marketing to other aviation assets, not only in Cuyahoga County, but throughout the country and throughout the world.

4:18:13Because don't forget, you have a number of international guests that come to the clinic all year, you know, all the time.

4:18:20And they're always looking for the best way to come in and out of the city, whether it's Berkeley for an airport or Cleveland Hopkins Airport.

4:18:27And to provide that additional amenity to the flying public, I think it would go a long way. But it's going to take a marketing plan, a universal marketing plan by the entire team to get this done.

4:18:39Yes. And then obviously, previously until this administration, do we have any record or data that shows the amount of grants and events that the city wants we're doing at the airport?

4:18:50And then do we have any information to determine why those things have stopped through the chair?

4:18:55To the Councilman? Yeah, there's a lot of documentation related to events that used to happen at Berkeley for an airport.

4:19:02One of the main events was the Cleveland Grand Prix.

4:19:05And the reason the Cleveland Grand Prix went away is because the two organizations, when they split, they decided to do their own thing.

4:19:11And then when they came back together, they decided to take, I believe they went to Oklahoma.

4:19:17And there has been discussion over the past number of years with other race car organizations that want to come to Cleveland.

4:19:25Whether it's a champ car or Indy or one of these types of operations.

4:19:31But that's something that's going to take a lot of coordination with the entire community to get stuff like that done again.

4:19:38All right. And to the standpoint from what is currently has occurred with the Burke Airport, how do we actually solicit those events to come back?

4:19:52You know, in a perfect world, what do we need to do to be able to get those events to be here?

4:19:57Meaning, is it something that we need to do from the administration standpoint to say that we're open for these events, putting our bids in?

4:20:05Or has it been a swift change in which what you used to be able to do from the NASCAR days and those opportunities just went away because we're not allowed to apply for those or ask for those or get in there?

4:20:18What is the what has suddenly changed to make it become this way?

4:20:23Mr. Chairman, to the Councilman, you hit the nail right on the head.

4:20:26It takes a community to bring venues like that to the city, whether it's Taylor Swift or race car racing.

4:20:36So there are there are a number of assets or venues that you can bring back to the airport to the city of Cleveland and to Berkeley for an airport.

4:20:44But it is going to take a coordinated effort by not only the city, but obviously the council and the general community as well to go out and bid for these things to bring.

4:20:54It's like bidding for the RNC or the DNC, you know, you have to provide, you know, bids.

4:21:01OK, so in a picture perfect world right now where we currently have Burke Airport, a couple of things I would like to ask.

4:21:10If somebody wanted to rent out the Burke Airport, possibly host any event there, what is the actual process looks like?

4:21:19Mr. Chairman, to the Councilman, I don't work for the city anymore.

4:21:23But based on my knowledge, you would send basically send a request to the airport director and the airport director would give it to his leasing people.

4:21:34And then they would provide you a cost sheet and move moving forward.

4:21:39So, yeah, I believe they still do some type of events there, but that's that would be the process as I remember it.

4:21:45All right. And then to do that standpoint, it just kind of odd to me because obviously you pointed out that over the last few years, we've seen the fact that the general fund has been able to help subsidize some of the shortages from the Burke Airport.

4:22:05And then obviously we heard from today is there used to be grants.

4:22:09There used to be events that we used to be it for and we used to bring to the city annually that we no longer have been able to bid for them for, as if the administration is saying that they telling you not to or they're not allowing the airport operations to do those type of things, which shows that it's easy to say that you need subsidies when you're not allowed to go out and make a profit or turn a profit on your different things to the chair.

4:22:36Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, the just a clarification, the city of Cleveland, the airport does not take general fund money nor tax dollars.

4:22:45We actually contribute to the tax base, both from Hopkins and from Berkeley for an airport.

4:22:51But, yeah, again, it would require a comprehensive marketing plan and a significant push by the entire community to bring assets like that back to back to Cleveland because it would it would take a heavy lift.

4:23:02All right. And then so therefore we can really do some things.

4:23:06That's that's all I want to make sure I understand, because one of the things I've learned sitting here at this table is whatever people want to do to change things or say they bring it to Cleveland, it's sometimes nonsense.

4:23:22And what I mean by that is I can't imagine us and as a council, that's agreed to shut down Burke Airport, where we don't even get three point five billion dollars to reinvest in all these four hundred acres of land or however much land is in place.

4:23:42It's just odd to me. It will shut it down and then, as you know, we'll see that it won't get the proper maintenance.

4:23:47It won't be up kept. We get all these promises that private investment is going to do X, Y and Z.

4:23:53There may be a deal that is struck privately already that we don't know of, but definitely could happen.

4:23:59But therefore, I just don't like I just don't like the assumption that something is going to happen after we did this when we really don't have no ecosystem or no actual plan to actually do that other than nice drawings.

4:24:11You know, the problem, the biggest issue I have is it seems as if the administration and others, they put so much effort into trying to close Burke and get government dollars and private dollars to help support this, this, this development if it's in the future.

4:24:31But when it comes to just the basic needs of Cleveland, we don't have that same type of energy from the administration.

4:24:37There's no reason that a central neighborhood, a North Collin neighborhood parts of on the southeast are going out, going each and every day without grocery store operators.

4:24:48There's no reason that we got CVSs, Walgreens closing in our neighborhoods each and every day, but we don't have no actual plan to be able to stand front lines and enough is enough.

4:24:59There is no reason to keep saying that we're going to just give a tax break, tax break as if that's going to do something when an operator may be losing dollars because they just don't have the partnership or the relationships with the current city of Cleveland.

4:25:12And what I mean, the city of Cleveland that starts with the administration doing what we possibly asked them to do from a council to enforce these things.

4:25:19So getting behind saying close Burke Airport and then we just have once again something sit vacant for year after year because we don't have no actual strategy to raise those dollars just sound like a foolish idea to do.

4:25:33Everybody can make a dream. They can make social media posts. They can do videos. They can do drawings.

4:25:39All this stuff sounds cute and pretty.

4:25:41But the reality is we don't got no money to redevelop Burke and this is our land.

4:25:46So us expecting others to go and do it and we don't really have that much dollars to put up.

4:25:51I would just say once again, it's just dreams, dreams and nightmares.

4:25:55And then when you just hear from these young children who are taking full advantage of the opportunities that Burke offer for them to get them into careers, jobs, it just shows once again the city do not understand the importance of making sure our young people are top priority.

4:26:13And what I mean by that is you're bitching about East Tech. East Tech ain't got now one technical program in their school right now, not one.

4:26:21I have heard nobody from that administration lobby to the district. Put those tech programs in.

4:26:28They call it a whole building by future initiative. Took away these school, these kids out of school time.

4:26:34You know how many principals are reaching out to me because they need resources for their children and they build a ton of them.

4:26:40I have not heard now one body from that administration or from the school district that said they're going to do everything.

4:26:46But what I do see the writers on the wall is that they're trying to kill and destroy all the progress that we have on the east side and just say they're going to look up and it's going to be three, maybe four high schools on the east side.

4:27:00And guess what? We're going to be looking like what the kids don't have nothing to do.

4:27:03It's problematic when you got kids coming from North Collinwood, central neighborhood, traveling all the way across to the west side just to get programs that they all should have in their neighborhood.

4:27:14You can't have a school called East Technical, but you don't got no trade programs, no nothing.

4:27:20Don't tell me you're doing a small robotics program.

4:27:23Don't just tell me that you're doing on culinary arts, which is great, but it's East Technical High School.

4:27:29Carl and Lewis Stokes went there and was participants and learning about the trades.

4:27:35So many other leaders have done that.

4:27:38But now we're going to say that is OK to take away programs that our children, our children here today said is great for them because we're mad.

4:27:46They got a problem with subsidizing nine hundred thousand dollars that the administration intentionally made it lose profit because they have not get everything to turn over profit with this.

4:27:56So I just want to tell my colleagues that if Burke Airport comes up for a vote from me, it is a super no because it sounds it just sounds like dreams and nightmares of nothingness and a promise of hope that we're not going to do.

4:28:12I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not satisfied with just the cute social media pictures and articles of how brilliant this is.

4:28:21If we haven't been able to figure out to find the money for the last 60 years, you tell me we're going to find it now.

4:28:27Give me a break. Make it make sense.

4:28:30This don't even this don't even this don't even solve anything that we need to do.

4:28:35We have so many other issues that we need to be putting our efforts to of the day to day operations from our youth, our job creation, our opportunities to make sure that our people are being treated.

4:28:49People don't have grocery stores in their neighborhood development is not happening.

4:28:53We have more vacant lots than anything.

4:28:55And we want to turn Burke Airport into another vacant lot.

4:28:58That is the problem. And that's why if that's why to my colleagues, I am not foreclosing Burke Airport, especially when we don't get three billion dollars in the bank row ready to do something.

4:29:12Now, if we had three billion dollars written, I explore opportunity to see what we can do to build upon the land on Burke, as opposed to just saying shut it down because because we don't like who uses it.

4:29:27And I'm never afraid to say that those who use it and those who are opportunity who may may may and meet for themselves, why should I try to punish them for your lives or something?

4:29:37And also, I think we have not talked about a lot of different people use the airport from the sports teams that come in town, from the actual students that come in town.

4:29:46It's so much that goes on on Burke Airport that we don't get preview to learn until you go over there yourself to find out through a tour.

4:29:54So I just want to make sure I reiterate it's all for me to say I agree with closing Burke Airport when the city of Cleveland don't have three point five billion dollars themselves to be able to redevelop this land that they are.

4:30:07Thank you. Thank you, Councilman. We have Councilman Davis next.

4:30:11Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through the chair to the assembly here, thank you so much for joining us.

4:30:16You may know I've been probably the most outspoken person on the committee in favor of closing Burke.

4:30:21But of course, that's conceptual more than reality. And I really do appreciate bringing the reality to bear for this committee here.

4:30:28Particularly, I want to thank the students joining us today, Mr. Tom, Mr. Vega, for explaining your experience at Burke Airport, the you guys with the future of the city and the rest of these guys don't matter.

4:30:38You do. So thank you. It really maybe just double down on that.

4:30:41Could I get a show of hands to see who is a resident of the city of Cleveland? I mean, this is great.

4:30:48One more time. That's great. We'd love to see it. It's important to me. It's important to all of us.

4:30:52Just helpful to understand the context of it's the people's airport at the end of the day.

4:30:56And if you're the people, that means a lot to us. I am disappointed the air show wasn't able to be here.

4:31:03I had some questions about that. I understand. Let me let me pause you. Oh, great.

4:31:08Let me let me pause you. I if you would like the air show to come up if you have specific questions, that's fine.

4:31:14There was the professional organizations and there's been so much talk about the air show publicly that I made the decision for them to sit back.

4:31:24And be called up if they were needed. So that's on me. Would you like them to come up? If you don't mind.

4:31:28I have just a couple quick questions. Someone's going to have to go back to the dugout. I do apologize for this.

4:31:34I have you. I have you paused. Thank you, sir. To me. So the questions of how do you how do you double down on Burke?

4:31:46And this is not anything cynical about the air show, but it's sort of like it's like an on or off or pass or fail, right?

4:31:52So so that's that's on me. We can you could find me in the hallway and yell me. So I know where you live.

4:31:58I'm starting your time again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And to the chairman, I mean, it makes sense.

4:32:02It's just the air show is probably the biggest thing that residents experience at Burke, both conceptually in the air when it wakes up my baby sleeping that week.

4:32:11Sorry about that. It's it's a genuine issue. Maybe you could tell us more about my understanding is the air show is a nonprofit organization, not a military entity.

4:32:19And more to the point that there's other nonprofits that can provide similar services if they were contracted at our airport.

4:32:24Can you tell us if that's true? Yes, that is 100 percent true.

4:32:27OK, first of all, my name is Nick DeVito. I don't speak. I am a board member of the Cleveland National Air Show and executive committee member.

4:32:35The executive we didn't know we were going to speak. So yes, Kim, who should have speak for me?

4:32:40But 100 percent true. I am a third generation board member of the Cleveland National Air Show.

4:32:46My I went to school with that kid right there, a university school, just so you know, and we were both bad kids.

4:32:51But my dad was on this air show board since 1970. The air show has been running since 1964.

4:32:58He passed away. My oldest brother was on the air show board. He unfortunately passed away.

4:33:02I have just 10 minutes. We got to get to the I'm so sorry to answer your question.

4:33:06100 percent. We are a nonprofit organization. We do not take any money from anyone.

4:33:09We are self sufficient. Is there an RFP? The city pits out and then you apply for that.

4:33:14How does your relationship begin with the city? And again, it's more to understand.

4:33:19Is this the only organization that can provide the air show services or are there others?

4:33:23When we hear the air show can't run in Cleveland, if Burke closes, is that just your organization or is that any air show ever?

4:33:29And that's the question. I think there's probably you got to start with the things on the ground pay for the things in the air.

4:33:37So if you can't sell tickets to the air show, you're not going to have anything fly.

4:33:43Chicago loses a couple million dollars a year in their air show other place.

4:33:46There are people that can come in and try to do this. The board that's been in place now since the 60s, since we started this,

4:33:52has still some of these people have still been around. One's 92 years old, a board member.

4:33:56So to answer your question, you can't just say, OK, you someone else come in from another state and run the air show in Cleveland.

4:34:03It cannot happen. It can. By the way, we also generate, I think, two point three million dollars in three days to the city.

4:34:10No one generates that. No one generates that over the weekend.

4:34:14The air show weekend generates about two point three million in tax dollars and that's all public.

4:34:18And then just to dive in again for a second. So it's your contention that no other organization could ever run the air show.

4:34:23It's just this one here. I mean, can another are there other air show organizations in the world?

4:34:28Yes, there are. But it's very hard to do it on this platform.

4:34:32We've been doing it here consecutively since 1964.

4:34:35And then just to clear up maybe a potential misconception the public has, do planes during the air show land and take off at Burke?

4:34:42Or are they where are they landing and taking probably ninety nine percent of them?

4:34:46OK, some do take off, for instance, the Thunderbirds.

4:34:51Thank you. Do not take off from Burke. They only take off from Hopkins.

4:34:55The F-22 this year, for security reasons, will land at Burke.

4:35:00Excuse me, at Hopkins instead of Burke. Just sometimes some planes, but ninety nine percent of the air show all comes into Burke.

4:35:06It's flying in the air and then landing using Burke as a runway.

4:35:09Correct. Those flyovers you see on Labor Day weekend from the Indians all took off from Burke to fly over the Indians all came from Burke.

4:35:19It's helpful to understand. That's all I have for the air show. I'm just going to be moving quickly here.

4:35:23Appreciate the budget questions. I mean, you did emphasize, of course, that Burke is not taxpayer funded.

4:35:29I want to dive into that for a moment as well. My understanding is that, yes, there's two airports under one budget.

4:35:34It's an enterprise fund here at the city that funding for that joint budget comes from the airlines.

4:35:40The airlines are not altruistic entities. They're making a buck here.

4:35:46And when Burke costs more money than it makes, that Delta comes up from somewhere.

4:35:51I mean, they pass on the airlines, pay for it and pass on the expenses, presumably to Hopkins travelers.

4:35:57And so while taxpayers may not be implicated, a whole bunch of taxpayers fly through Hopkins.

4:36:01And really, just to point it out, why am I paying every time I fly out of Hopkins for Burke in my misunderstanding the budget through the chair?

4:36:10Yeah, through the chair to the councilman. So there's multiple revenue sources.

4:36:13It's not just specifically the airlines. There's also the fuel sales that happen at both airports.

4:36:19There's fuel flowage fees that signature pays. There's fuel flowage fees that the FBO at Hopkins pays.

4:36:25If you want to dive into the specifics of, you know, when you break down an airline ticket, what you're paying for.

4:36:30You're paying for a lot of things on that airline ticket count.

4:36:34Do you happen to know what the breakdown would be just on an average year of?

4:36:38Well, I can even through the chair, I can break this down a little bit better when Burke is short a almost million dollars last year.

4:36:46That money comes from Hopkins Travelers. Does it not? Yes or no.

4:36:50It comes from the system. So it's a combination of Burke dollars and Hopkins dollars.

4:36:55Cal, can you go into maybe some detail on that?

4:36:58Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, it comes from the airlines. The shortfall comes from the airlines.

4:37:06And so it's cheaper for the airlines to subsidize Burke to the tune of eight hundred nine hundred thousand dollars than it is for them to assume a billion dollar runway.

4:37:17If Burke was to close and that traffic would have to go to Hopkins.

4:37:21And it would be cheaper for the airlines to subsidize Burke at eight nine hundred thousand dollars a year.

4:37:29And not because Burke loses money by by design.

4:37:32Burke loses money because it's a death by a thousand cuts.

4:37:36And so that's that's basically why the airlines subsidize the the airport to that level,

4:37:44because they don't want that G.A. traffic mixed in with their aircraft at Hopkins Airport.

4:37:48I mean, they could easily say, no, we're not going to subsidize it anymore.

4:37:52That's a great segue to maybe my next thought process here.

4:37:54When I had I had a great opportunity to take a tour of Burke recently.

4:37:58We watched the Cubs land at their 747 for a game at the Guardians.

4:38:02That raised a lot of questions for me. Is the Cubs 747 landing at Hopkins?

4:38:08I'm sorry, landing at Burke the highest and best use of that land.

4:38:11They can land at Hopkins. It's a 20 minute drive.

4:38:14It's a 10 minute drive from Burke down to the Guardians field.

4:38:16I mean, what was solved by having this large albatross on the lake when that 747 can land just the same at other airports.

4:38:25And so, I mean, how how much of our business at Burke is just catering to things that could easily be moved to Hopkins?

4:38:30And let me dive in for one second more.

4:38:32I am thrilled to hear about the success of the Davis Aerospace High School, but it's not at the airport.

4:38:38It's across the railroad tracks, across the freeway.

4:38:41And I keep wondering, why not put it at the real airport, the one that we all use,

4:38:46not the one that only the Cubs are using that's not like there.

4:38:50So what can we move to Hopkins like the Cubs like the high school without really losing any regional concern?

4:38:57Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, the I believe you're referring to a 737.

4:39:02I'm sorry, I'm 47. Yeah, it's the 730.

4:39:06So when the athletes fly into the airport, it's a whole network of events that have to happen at the airport.

4:39:13It's security to secure the team because they're coming into a hostile environment if they're winning.

4:39:21You have a number of buses that have to come onto the airfield.

4:39:26You probably have 200 plus passengers on the airplane.

4:39:31And so all that happens on the ramp.

4:39:33It doesn't happen on the jet bridge.

4:39:34It doesn't happen in the concourse.

4:39:36And so, again, you want that traffic.

4:39:39You don't want to cause delays on the ground.

4:39:43By having that activity at the commercial airport, you want to move that to the airport.

4:39:49And that's typically why they do it at at Berkeley for an airport.

4:39:54And the other thing, too, is the stadium is less than a mile away.

4:39:58So the two or three or four buses that are transporting the players are going one mile into the hotel and or the stadium.

4:40:06And they're not you know, they're not traveling 1920 miles from Hopkins Airport to Burke.

4:40:11I mean, to the stadium.

4:40:12So that, in essence, it just kind of gives you a little idea of why they do the same thing.

4:40:19Let me just add real quick.

4:40:19It's a 15 minute drive that the Cubs can wait an extra five minutes, in my opinion, but understood that that's the the pitch to the wealthy interests that maybe are more interesting for the community here.

4:40:29Go ahead, sir.

4:40:30Through the chair to the to the councilman, I beg to differ with you, Councilman, because I think we're talking about apples and oranges here.

4:40:37I think you you do not appreciate the true value of what we're talking about here.

4:40:42We're not that's that is the perception that we're trying to rectify here.

4:40:47Burke Lakefront is not for the one percenters, the rich and famous or the Cubs.

4:40:51I beg to differ with you.

4:40:53I've resided at Burke and I welcome you to come down and take a tour of our facility as well for the last 40 years.

4:40:58And I can tell you that that is the exception rather than what happens at Burke on a daily basis.

4:41:04We heard today over 2000 plus missions, medical missions occur at Lakefront Airport.

4:41:10That isn't the one percenters.

4:41:11We don't we don't gauge somebody.

4:41:14So so I take exception to the inference and we're trying to set the record straight here.

4:41:19So the and the occasion when these events take place, they bring revenue to the city.

4:41:26And the reason why they're coming here is because we have this asset versus through the chart.

4:41:30I am so sorry. About 30 seconds left.

4:41:32So I'm going to end with just one thought. No, the mission.

4:41:36I'm sorry, Mr. Kitzigus, that you've devoted your life to his admiral will be on belief in any changes that would occur to Burke.

4:41:43And none are contemplated as we discussed here would have to preserve that essential life saving mission that you're part of.

4:41:48I will say the fact that none of the hospital systems have spoken out on Burke speaks volumes to me that that there's just simply they aren't here at the table.

4:41:56The clinic chooses not to have that conversation.

4:41:58Moreover, I am actually I'm going to go on a limb here, which is going to be a pun in a second and say that I'm probably the only person on city council who has been in a medevac flight.

4:42:06When I I was in a terrible train accident in Alexandria, Egypt and lost both my legs above the knee when I was medevaced out on an ICU Learjet from Alexandria to the Czech Republic to Iceland to Canada and to Cleveland.

4:42:19I was on that exact kind of flight that you're talking about.

4:42:22And I went into Hopkins because Burke isn't that important when you are having a medical emergency.

4:42:28Hopkins is around the corner that Burke is not.

4:42:31We're talking like we only have one airport in the city and it's just Burke.

4:42:34No, the flights of Chicago can be out of Hopkins.

4:42:37The flights for Learjets are apparently happening at Hopkins every day.

4:42:41I don't know what to say other than I've experienced this and I was so disappointed to not land at Burke because that was going to be one opportunity.

4:42:47But Mr. Chairman, is there time for just response to that?

4:42:50Go ahead. Thank you, sir.

4:42:51Through the chairman to the council.

4:42:54I don't know the specifics of what happened, but the reason why you didn't come to Lakefront, I can't speak to.

4:43:00But you were also waiting probably life and death critical minutes that most of these, you know, missions that we do depend on.

4:43:09But beyond that, Councilman, the reality of the matter here is looking at we're not suggesting here that we keep the status quo.

4:43:18What we are suggesting here is that there is an opportunity for both to coexist.

4:43:24And what we are suggesting here is let the city flourish with what it has rather than rhetorically hypothesizing on what it could be.

4:43:35And I couldn't agree with your councilman more that we remove with both those Burke today.

4:43:41You will see what's happening on the ice 55th where you have meth and you have all kinds of other elements that are attractive because it fosters that when it's abandoned.

4:43:53Is that what we want to do?

4:43:55Through the chair, if we end up looking like Chicago, my job here is done.

4:43:58I'll leave you with this.

4:43:59I find it personally offensive that we had a Gemini presentation here before Council, that the idea that we had an AI generated voice speaking to me is incredibly disrespectful to this body.

4:44:07We're human beings.

4:44:08If you have something to say, you should say it yourself instead of making subjecting me to a presentation with mutant airplanes.

4:44:13I don't even have two wings on them.

4:44:15Did you see the actual presentation that was before you?

4:44:17It's mind boggling, especially with children in the audience as they have to pursue a career in this world that you would have this generative AI.

4:44:26The terminology is slop before us.

4:44:27If you take this seriously, I would hope to see a serious presentation and not airplanes that don't have two wings, not the Sydney Opera House in the middle of the Cleveland skyline.

4:44:37What are we doing here?

4:44:38So I'll conclude with that, Mr. Chairman.

4:44:40Thank you very much for your time.

4:44:40Thank you, Councilman Davis.

4:44:43We have Councilwoman Gray followed by Councilman Jones.

4:44:54I support Berke Lake Airport.

4:45:01I understand that we need to coexist with a lot of things now in the city of Cleveland because we have lost a lot of things, too.

4:45:11So we have to think for the long term of what more we can have, not only for us in the place that we got familiar with, a chair to everybody.

4:45:22We are we hold on to familiarity when sometimes I think sometimes when I think that the older elders don't want change.

4:45:351950, I wasn't living.

4:45:38But my great grandparents and my parents were.

4:45:42And when they lived in that era, everything accommodated them.

4:45:48Nothing can accommodate me now from 1950 to now.

4:45:53But some things are hysterical that still here, you know, you know, that has been maintained for us to live by and live for.

4:46:05So time change as as the world evolves.

4:46:11Nothing stays the same.

4:46:14So things are changing and we got to let go.

4:46:19We hold on to, you know, to so much myth that is not real anymore.

4:46:26It's not sustainable. So I support late.

4:46:30You know, the labor airport because for the futurist of our children and the next folks who can make the change and difference.

4:46:40I'm not going to be here probably for all the excitement of things to come, but other folks will.

4:46:48And they would like to see something different than what we already have not been able to maintain and keep structural.

4:46:58You know, for us to enjoy. So everybody got their opinion.

4:47:02So I just want to say that as I was sitting here listening, I brought up some the history.

4:47:09I don't know much about a Berkeley front, but I know I toured it twice and I never seen what I seen when I toured twice twice.

4:47:17And what I seen was the aviation classes that these young men and women, you know, participate in.

4:47:25And I see them out there working on the planes and enjoying themselves.

4:47:31I've never seen that before, but it's for them. Let's keep that.

4:47:36That got to be kept for our kids, as we know, our past, past once a past, past principal who committed suicide in one of the aviation schools years ago.

4:47:50And that blew the entire city mine. Why would he have blown his?

4:47:56I don't know, but you know what I'm talking about. He didn't do it. What happened?

4:48:02OK, so either way and stuff either way, you know, you know, either way, either way, you know, that's where he was found, correct?

4:48:11That's where he was found. And and that was devastating also to the school system.

4:48:21But to see these young people when I was there twice was to see these young to see these young students there working on the planes

4:48:29and learning something that they are gifted to learn and to do for the future for them.

4:48:35I think that was outstanding that our kids want to learn how to do that.

4:48:41And to sit here and I'm learning about a lot about, you know, but Burke Lake Front.

4:48:46And I brought up some history and it stays here. I'm not going to read it all because we got 10 minutes.

4:48:52But it says since since since the interception nearly a century ago, Cleveland, Burke Lake Front Airport has been the region premier business airport

4:49:05providing travelers with safe, enjoyable and hassle free transportation.

4:49:10It goes back to 1927. City manager William Hopkins announced the idea of Lake Front Airport as a part of a larger vision

4:49:23for the city of Cleveland. Then it goes to 1946, 1947, 1950, 57, 57 to 68, 70, 79, 1993, 1997, 1998, 2007 to 2008, 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16.

4:49:44So everything evolved from 27, 1927 to 1916, I mean, 2016 and it's still evolving. We have a whole different conversation from the first conception of Burke Lake Front being created in 1927.

4:50:06The conversation is still going on. So so it's worth something. It's worth something because it's because it's still evolving with this conversation at the table today.

4:50:19So we have to say some we have to say some of our historical buildings and things that will help help help people to enjoy, help our kids learn from, you know,

4:50:41just brainstorm to see how things can be, how things can involve to, you know, involve to help the next generation to experience things that, you know, they have never experienced.

4:51:01But I just want to make a couple of comments before I'm on 10 minutes of the Mr. George Cassie. Yeah. Your presentation due to where Cleveland connects critical care to the world.

4:51:19This may be a eye, but it's a pretty eye. I was going to say that it's a pretty eye, but it has a lot of information on it. And what I want to ask is about a new air medical campus.

4:51:36Is that something chair to chair to the team? Is that something that that you're bringing to renovate or build on on Lake Front property?

4:51:52Through the chair, to the chair, to the councilwoman. Absolutely, ma'am. That's why I'm here today to tell you that, you know, I'm putting behind us 20 years of coexisting at Lake at Lake Front, evolving from note.

4:52:05I was just as young as those students are here and living the dream and today establishing a global medevac company that was in is there every day for for folks that have a need for us.

4:52:20And what we're saying is we want to expand our facilities that we took over in 2013 need to be probably raised. The other thing that we don't appreciate is there's a landfill.

4:52:32So if you would come to our facilities, you will physically see how the building that we are existing in is sinking because of the landfill that's below us.

4:52:44So we would like to raise the building. We would like to open up new operations, expand the scope of what we do here because we command all our satellite bases through Lake Front.

4:52:56What we were talking about, perhaps working with the hospital systems like the clinic and others to the reason why organs are harvested on the backside of the clock, meaning during the hours, usually between 11 o'clock at night and six o'clock in the morning is because that's when the hours are available at hospitals during the day.

4:53:15Normal surgeries occur. So what would it be like instead of having to go to the hospital, which adds to the ischemic time to build an actual or clinic where we can do the harvesting, not only for the clinic for anybody that's coming inbound to harvest, to take organs back or vice versa.

4:53:32So there's all kinds of things that we can do that will enhance our operations and enhance the capability of our of our hospital systems as we know them today.

4:53:42All we need is opportunity and assurances and the ability to dream. Okay. Thank you for that.

4:53:50And this and this investment, as you spoke earlier, the gentleman next to you here to the team, you know, will be coming out of your investment funding and nothing from the city.

4:54:02Since you are correct, I'm not here today, as I mentioned in my presentation, to ask for funding from the city, it'll be privately funded, private funding. Yes. But we can't do that on a 24 month lease that we are currently still under.

4:54:16We need to have the assurance and the opportunity to make such an investment. Okay. Thank you for that.

4:54:22And also this this plan that you have is totally chair to the team. This plan that you have is totally different from what the mayor of what the mayor of plan that he put out that he would like for a bird late front look like.

4:54:41It's totally two different plans. Correct. Chair to the team. Have you seen his plan via the chair to the councilman? Honestly, I've seen a couple versions of what the mayor hypothetically has.

4:54:53But I don't think any of us council or the citizens and I've been to town hall meetings that he said it's all vague.

4:55:01It's all nebulous. And I don't know. So I real ideal in reality. I and I and I welcome the opportunity to have a discussion where we can sit down and evolve.

4:55:11So it doesn't be it doesn't have to be either or it can be both. And how can we do how can we bring that to the forefront?

4:55:18So my plan is not different. It is just based on reality. 20 years of history and where I see us going forward. Okay. Thank you.

4:55:26All right. Thank you. That's about it. Because we just saying that just to close that we are dealing with change and we have to evolve with change at the end of the day.

4:55:36So I I'm going to stand to what I believe. And I believe that we should keep Lakeburg Airport just as well as F.A.A. and just as well as our was our senator and F.A.A.

4:55:49was standing out there saying that it will not close. They had the final say. So I was pretty elated to hear that. So thank you, Chair.

4:55:58Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilman Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I am the closer. I waited all the way down to the end here.

4:56:05And first, I just want to thank you for your leadership and giving diversity and and showing there's a different perspective as relates to the airport.

4:56:21And I had a chance to go out and visit and take a tour on the airport and and I was broken hearted and I was broken hearted for a number of reasons.

4:56:41The very first reason why I was broken hearted was I had an opportunity to go to my old school aviation high school.

4:56:48And I saw how they had torn things down and gutted it out. And so I guess the first question I would ask if someone knows the answer to this is who owns the aviation high school currently now?

4:57:05Cal could probably answer that as well, but it is the city of Cleveland, the airport system, correct? And it is being utilized to store airport equipment as well as the city of some city of Cleveland police department.

4:57:16That's correct, Mr. Chairman. Councilman.

4:57:18Council, I just want to hear you. I know I heard him, but I want to hear you now because you might add something more to it.

4:57:25The current the current hangar is owned by the city of Cleveland, the airport, and it's currently used as a as a maintenance facility.

4:57:37It houses no equipment. The equipment that's housed in there so is very valuable and requires to be indoors.

4:57:44So they've that's where basically the entire maintenance operation happens now.

4:57:49I see. And so at any time that CMSD own that property, Mr. Chairman, to the councilman, yes.

4:57:55OK, and so how did how did it unravel where CMSD would give that property to the city?

4:58:03Mr. Chairman, once the school system closed the school, innovation high school, as you alluded to, the former superintendent was found deceased in the building.

4:58:15And I believe it happened shortly thereafter. The building became vacant for a number of years.

4:58:21It was I don't remember how long it was vacant before something was done there, but it was vacant for a long time.

4:58:26So let me say I've heard about that. So but it's the Dr.

4:58:31Holliday was the just so the listening audience can can hear this and know the history was a great superintendent at Cleveland Public Schools.

4:58:41In fact, I was a student at then Newton D. Baker, which are going to demolition now at that particular period of time.

4:58:51And I think it was in 1984 or 83, somewhere around that period.

4:58:55And I can remember being a student in the Cleveland Public Schools and him taking over as a superintendent.

4:59:01And there was like a change, a sea change of a feeling of his leadership and how,

4:59:11as you may have heard my colleague earlier, talk about academic excellence.

4:59:16There was a sea change with his leadership. I know that there was a battle that ensued about funding.

4:59:21And I know that, you know, I'm not accusing anyone.

4:59:26I know the battle was with the unions and so on, et cetera. And and then unfortunately, there was this claim that,

4:59:35you know, and there that he committed suicide and students were pretty bright and smart.

4:59:43The later classes of the 90s came in and and we deducted just from our listening to some of the facts.

4:59:52How could he would have done that? Right. So so we decided that at least in our, you know, untrained minds.

5:00:00I think it's important to us to know that there are a few things that are going on here.

5:00:07One of the things that I want to talk about is about investigations. We just didn't feel he did that.

5:00:14We felt that something else nefarious happened there.

5:00:18And that was just based upon how everything was put in play and just how we enacted that whole process out as students.

5:00:25I think it's important to know that there are a few things that are going on here.

5:00:30I think it's important to know that there are two things that are going on here.

5:00:35The first one is that there are two things that are going on here.

5:00:39One is that there are two things that are going on here.

5:00:43One is that there are two things that are going on here.

5:00:46One is that there are two things that are going on here.

5:00:50It's good to see that we got that history there. Now what I would suggest since we're here and batting us home run in here is that this administration is not the first administration.

5:01:01It's not going to be the last administration. It's not the first council. It's not going to be the last council.

5:01:06And so though we sit here today with just a breath of reprieve, the issue is that the next council may not be supporting the airport.

5:01:16The next administration may support or may not support. And we've sat here for quite some time and we have a school facility, Mr. Chairman.

5:01:28I would suggest that we open up that school at Aviation High School because it still has good bones, Mr. Chairman, that we do open that facility up.

5:01:38And if you're talking about a $20 million potential investment, I think that's what I heard in your testimony.

5:01:44And I want to just take this moment to take this opportunity to say thank you to all you who've been here because you've been here.

5:01:53I've seen you in the audience since 930 a.m.

5:01:56And now we're looking at 230, hopefully wrapping it up by that period.

5:02:01And I would suggest to you, Mr. Chairman, that we have a consultant added on to the council's process and may be working with you or whoever will be the group here would that be the leadership to talk about that $20 million investment.

5:02:20What could it potentially mean to open that school back up, to talk about the new aeronautics and the various different changing technologies that are impacting us on a global level.

5:02:33If you look at Dubai and all the things that they're doing there, it is just absolutely amazing in terms of the new technologies that are on the market space that we haven't even been able to explore in the United States yet.

5:02:48So I would suggest, and I want to say to those who live in the city of Cleveland, thank you for living in the city of Cleveland, so I'm a rock that.

5:02:57So I would say thank you for those who are invested, but as my colleague was stating earlier and what has unfortunately been the discussion about Burke Lake Airport or the perception about Burke Lake Airport is that it's a bunch of rich guys.

5:03:16And so I just think that at the end of the day, after going into the facility, I didn't see that.

5:03:25What I saw was mode. I smelled mode. I walked through the airport. I thought it was really bad and it didn't just happen in this last four years of this administration.

5:03:36So apparently there has been deterioration for quite some time. I remember when I was a youngster and I had met Kyle and I went down there to the airport.

5:03:46And it was a much better condition than what it is today. So I would suggest that we really start talking about next steps, how we really can improve the airport, talk about the possibilities of bringing an investment.

5:03:58I think you're going to have to take the leadership. You can't sit back like what has happened. I'm not saying that you did. I'm not understanding the politics here, but we can't sit back on this asset and we have to move it forward.

5:04:11And that means taking the leadership and working with the council and the council can work with you because in years past, the council has had consultants dealing with a number of topics and issues to help to navigate not only the council, but also to help shape policy and then get administrative support.

5:04:32I'm for the airport. I'm for building a new school down there if necessary or building a new hangar and working with the retrofitting of that. I'm interested in knowing about the potential investments that could be made there in the facility, how we can drive more.

5:04:47I am impressed with the presentations that talk about we have 50,000 flights coming out compared to other airports within Ohio and want to see what are the next steps from here because I was impressed with some of the conversation.

5:05:03But I also want to say that one of the things council has a rule and one of the rules that council has and has always unspoken rule is we really don't get involved with their affairs of our colleagues territories.

5:05:18And so one of the things that I would suggest which is really important is is being able to come up with your plan, talk about the future. I appreciate that I would be one of those votes. If you can show that we're getting the investments coming in here.

5:05:34We really actually fundamentally creating the jobs and we're doing something that's going to going to make the difference and then I want to thank those who are operating the medical facilities and a medical vax.

5:05:44I had an opportunity to go down there. I want to just thank you for the lives that you I think it was 38 was a 38,000 flights or 38. I saw that number. I'm not sure for us.

5:05:55Correct. Yeah, 45,000 lives impacted about 19,000 or so missions exactly about 14,000 organs and just a little bit over 5,000 patients and what span of time since I found it.

5:06:12So I just want to say thank you for those lives that have been saved those people who have been impacted and want to see some real plan put here. Mr. Chairman, thank you Councilman Jones with that.

5:06:27That is the end of our list of questions. I do really want to genuinely thank all of you and all of you in the audience, whoever's listening at home. Thank you for participating today.

5:06:38My goal throughout all of these hearings has been to just demonstrate that, you know, ideas are always more complex things are always more complex than they may seem and that this body has an obligation to help sort of unravel all of the parts so that people can either.

5:06:56Maybe they change their mind, maybe they become more affirmed in their opinion, but they're coming at their decision from, you know, based on information and facts and analysis.

5:07:09And then I hope that people feel that we're achieving that today. I also want to take a special moment to thank Ibuku and Odie Martins from our policy staff for hanging with us all day, helping to organize all of this.

5:07:21We wouldn't have gotten here without you, so thank you. Hopefully you can go home.

5:07:27And with that, that's all I had for the agenda today. Thank you to my colleagues again, and that will conclude this hearing of transportation and mobility.

5:07:35Thank you.