2026-10-12 - Municipal Services and Properties Committee

08:39with the

09:36a little bit in Evston, Illinois. Jesus

09:38Christ, the problems. Okay. It was

09:39filmed all over the place, but mostly

09:41mobile.

09:46I liked the uh did you see the the memes

09:48about uh garden Luther instead of Martin

09:52Luther

09:53>> since the pope was on Chicago's side

09:56Martin Luther and uh

10:12good morning Um, I'm calling the

10:14Municipal Services and Properties

10:16Committee to order. Today is Monday,

10:19October 12th, 2026. Madame Clerk, can

10:22you please call a role

10:24>> here?

10:28>> Present.

10:32[clears throat]

10:32>> All right. Madam Clerk, can you please

10:33excuse uh Councilwoman Gray and

10:36Councilman Taname Shaw?

10:39>> Okay. Uh, first I'm going to start off

10:41with uh Commissioner Green.

10:52So, we've heard this piece in uh

10:55department uh development planning and

10:57sustainability, right, Commissioner?

11:00All right. So, this is going to be kind

11:01of a refresher for some folks

11:03>> to the chair. Yes.

11:04>> Uh ordinance number uh 1034

11:082026. This is by council me me me me me

11:10me me me me me me me me me me me me me

11:10me me members Pinsic Santana Bishop and

11:12Griffin. This is a departmental request

11:14an emergency ordinance authorizing the

11:16director of community development to

11:18lease the fivepoint building, also known

11:21as Colin Woods Community Center located

11:25at 813 East 152 Street to the Famikos

11:30Foundation to operate and provide a

11:32range of social services and to maintain

11:35the Five Points building for a period of

11:38two years with one 2year option to

11:41renew. Okay, Commissioner.

11:43>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of

11:45the committee. I'm joined by John

11:47Analifo, who is the executive director

11:49at Famikos in case there are any

11:51questions regarding uh the facility and

11:53programs operating out of there. Uh

11:56currently, uh I I'll go quickly since it

11:58it was heard before DPNS.

12:01So, just sort of to orient you to where

12:03the location of the building is, it's on

12:05East 157 East 152nd Street in

12:09Cottonwood, uh, between Aspen Wall to

12:11the north and Plato to the south. And

12:14more specifically, on an extended basis,

12:16uh, I90 is to the north and St. Clair

12:20uh, to the south.

12:22This is the building uh, as it sits

12:24today. Um, it's used for social

12:27services, operated by Famicos. We're

12:30renewing the lease with them. Uh this is

12:33uh art art that was done on the side of

12:35the building by national uh artist

12:39and the programs that are currently

12:41operating out of the facility. There are

12:43eight programs uh that include meal

12:45programs, um senior citizen programs, uh

12:49afterchool youth programs, and uh what's

12:51not showing on the list, they're also

12:53operating a farmers uh uh summer sprout

12:56garden uh uh to the um uh adjacent uh

13:00lot uh where they uh provide education

13:03uh on those uh on that lot.

13:08So the uh the uh proposal is to lease

13:11the building. is just for a dollar a

13:12year uh so that Famikos is able to

13:15continue to provide the services uh in

13:18that facility. There are some

13:20maintenance needs to the building which

13:22we will address as the city and Famikos

13:24will help uh steer uh some of those and

13:28uh we will uh work out the details of

13:30the leads with Famicos.

13:32>> Okay. Commissioner. Um so I guess that's

13:34my first line of question is that um how

13:36first how long has been Famiko has been

13:38in this building? Quite a few quite a

13:40long time.

13:43quite a long time, sir. Um, we have been

13:46there since uh Eugene Miller was a

13:49council person.

13:50>> Okay. So, the So, if something happens

13:53to the furnace, who who's responsible?

13:55Is that the city or is that flamingos?

13:57>> That's the city. The lease would uh

14:00provide um uh recommendations for uh uh

14:04repairs that are under a certain dollar

14:06amount. a a furnace, a boiler, those

14:09sorts of things are considered major

14:10repairs and the city would take.

14:12>> Okay. So, minor repairs for Mikos

14:13handles.

14:14>> Yes.

14:14>> Major repairs the city handles

14:17>> to the chair. Yes.

14:18>> Is that spelled out in the lease or it's

14:20just a dollar amount?

14:21>> It will be spelled out in the lease to

14:23the chair uh with a dollar amount.

14:25>> Dollar amount. Okay. Is there any

14:27questions from the committee?

14:29>> Councilman Kazy.

14:30>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,

14:32to the commissioner, who actually owns

14:34the building? Does the city of Cleveland

14:35own the building?

14:37to the councilman through the chair. The

14:38city owns the building. Uh it is under

14:41the jurisdiction of the department of

14:42community development.

14:44>> All right. And then it's a dollar a

14:46dollar a year.

14:47>> To the councilman through the chair.

14:48Yes.

14:48>> And then Mr. Chairman, to the

14:50commissioner, can we get what the city

14:52has spent in the last five years for

14:54maintenance and upkeep on the building?

14:56>> To the councilman to the chair. We can

14:58pull that together.

14:59>> Okay. And then are there any other

15:00tenants? Is Fikos the only tenant in the

15:03building?

15:04>> Yes, sir. We are.

15:05>> Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr.

15:06Chairman.

15:07>> All right. Is there any other questions?

15:08Councilwoman Hudson.

15:10>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um,

15:14through the chair, um, what was this

15:16building previously? Has it always been

15:18a community center?

15:20>> Through the chair to the council woman?

15:22Yes. It's always been a community

15:24center. There's been different, uh,

15:25CDC's that have operated from there.

15:28>> And so, um, through the chair, do do you

15:31know how long it's been owned by the

15:32city of Cleveland? Has it always been

15:35owned by the city of Cleveland?

15:36>> It was put in service by former

15:39Councilwoman Coats.

15:41So, yeah, that's that's how long it has

15:44run around.

15:45>> Okay. Thank you.

15:47>> All right. All right. Thank you,

15:48Councilwoman. Any other questions? C

15:51Councilman Harsh.

15:52>> Thank you. Um, Mr. Chair, to the guests,

15:55what um is has the building been vacant

15:58for a while or have you previous you've

16:00already been occupying it?

16:03it it's preoccupied by CDC's that we are

16:08serving that neighborhood.

16:10>> Okay. Um so through the chair, I know

16:12that there's been discussion about some

16:13investment that needs to go into this

16:14building. I believe uh Councilman

16:16Haristen was uh trying to invest some

16:19funds in this building. Uh through the

16:21chair, are the necessary repairs

16:23extensive uh or is it just a good

16:26measure investment that was being

16:27discussed or is there a problem at this

16:29building that really needs to be

16:30addressed?

16:33through the chair, to the councilman. Uh

16:35there are an array of uh repairs that

16:38are needed. Uh specifically, the more

16:40expensive ones are to the HVAC system

16:42and the restrooms that are in the

16:44building. Uh other needs are more

16:46maintenance needs and and so we uh we

16:50actually have pulled together a list of

16:52repairs that are needed and and uh staff

16:55there has also pulled together a list.

16:57And so we will uh combine those and and

17:00work on the funding to get all of that

17:01taken care of.

17:02>> And so my question is those repairs

17:05through the chair, would they require

17:06the building to be emptied in order to

17:08make the repairs or can can they be done

17:11while the building is occupied?

17:14>> So it will be done while the building is

17:16occupied.

17:17>> It can be done while occupied. The work

17:20that is needed

17:21>> through the chair to the councilman. Uh

17:23I believe so. We'll we'll we'll make

17:26sure as uh the HVAC is probably the

17:28larger concern. Uh but uh outside of

17:32that, everything else can be done uh

17:33while it's occupied.

17:35>> Okay. No further questions. Thank you.

17:37>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Harris.

17:38Uh one last question. Does community

17:40development own any other city

17:43buildings? Do they lease out to any

17:45other CDC's?

17:47>> Uh to the chair, yes. Uh currently the

17:51uh North Point uh building 1550 Superior

17:54Avenue which was being used for

17:57transitional housing.

17:58>> Okay. Can you get us a list of that in

18:00the terms and I Okay. Can you submit

18:02submit that to our staff?

18:05>> Yes. To the chair.

18:06>> All right. Any other questions? Seeing

18:08no further questions. Ordinance number

18:101037 2026.

18:13No, I'm sorry.

18:171034 2026 is approved. Please sign it.

18:21>> Thank you, sir.

18:21>> Thank you.

18:22>> Thank you.

18:23>> Uh,

18:24Chief Kane.

18:36>> Did I I'm sorry. Uh, did I direct you um

18:40properly? Chief, you are chief or you

18:42director?

18:44>> Both. Chairman. [laughter] Thank you.

18:47>> All right. All right. Ordinance number

18:49103 10372026.

18:51This one is as amended.

18:55Um ordinance uh by council members Kazy,

18:58Bishop Griffin by departmental request

19:00an emergency ordinance to amend section

19:03129.22 22 of the Codified Ordinances of

19:06Cleveland, Ohio 1976

19:09as amended by ordinance number 1548-84

19:14pass October 8th 1984 relating to

19:18easement acquisition

19:21and let me read the

19:24amendment. There is no legal objections

19:25to this legislation if amended as

19:27follows. And number one in section one

19:30amend at amended section 129.22

19:35last line strike

19:38as determined by the board of control.

19:42Okay. All right chief can you explain

19:44what's happening with this piece?

19:46>> Thank you chairman and members of the

19:47committee. the department of public

19:48utilities and the director of the

19:50department of public utilities has

19:51authority to grant easements. Uh whereas

19:55a uh access to the underground utility

19:58infrastructure is imperative. It's

20:00critical. The uh threshold established

20:03in 1984 on codified ordinance section

20:0512922 was $3,500. We're seeking to

20:09remove that. Obviously uh everything has

20:11changed since 1984. Yet, these easements

20:14remain critical to us to the delivery of

20:17the services that we provide to our

20:19customers. So, we're looking to lift

20:20that threshold um and and rest that

20:23authority with the director of public

20:25utilities to continue on these important

20:27capital improvements.

20:29>> Okay. So, um Chief, the um fees would be

20:33at your discretion or you you would

20:35determine the fees at this point if if

20:37this is passed. Correct.

20:38>> Chairman, it would be fair market value.

20:40fair market value

20:40>> with in coordination with MOAP and the

20:43division of real estate uh to determine

20:45the fair market value primarily through

20:47uh an appraisal. So an appraisal is

20:49completed, fair market value is

20:51established and the director of public

20:52utilities would have the authority to

20:54execute that easement.

20:55>> Okay. All right. This piece was heard in

20:57the utilities committee. Councilman um

20:59Kazy.

21:00>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It was uh duly

21:02vetted and recommended for passage out

21:04of utilities as amended. Correct.

21:06>> Right. As amended.

21:07>> All right.

21:08>> All right. Is there any questions on

21:10ordinance number 10372026

21:13as amended?

21:15>> Councilman Harsh,

21:18>> Mr. Chair, through to the chief, what um

21:20was the $3,500 cap preventing projects

21:23from moving forward because people

21:24wouldn't sell for that amount. What was

21:25the problem with the 3500? chairman to

21:27the council members. So, in recent

21:29years, we have had instances where a

21:32designed capital improvement of a new

21:34distribution main or a sewer main uh

21:36would encroach on private property,

21:39right?

21:39>> And we would have to negotiate with the

21:41property owner. And in yes, in instances

21:44we have realized that that $3,500 cap

21:47precluded us from doing it. Either we

21:49would come and get legislative authority

21:51to continue with the project or we would

21:54redesign to try to and we always try to

21:56remain in the right of way the public's

21:58domain as much as we can. In certain

22:00instances, you just can't avoid it. Um,

22:02so what we're trying to do is just to

22:04allow the project to to continue as

22:07designed and there still could be

22:08instances of redesign or anything. But,

22:11uh, the quick answer to your question is

22:13yes. We have run into instances where

22:15the $3,500 cap was um was an impediment

22:19to the continuation of the project

22:21>> because the through the chair though the

22:24property owner where the easement is

22:26needed has to uh consent to the easement

22:29and at a financial price that they find

22:31appropriate. chairman of the councilman.

22:33That's correct. Or had issues with the

22:35appraisal to determine the fair market

22:37value and that property, the private

22:39property owner uh wouldn't agree to the

22:42appraised amount which was greater than

22:44$3,500. So, we would still have to come

22:46back and get legislation and try to

22:49typically we would redesign if I'm being

22:52honest, but in certain instances the

22:53$3,500 cap has um inhibited our ability

22:57to deliver the project.

22:58>> Okay. Thank you.

23:00>> All right. Is there any other questions?

23:01Councilman Jones.

23:03>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, even if you

23:05get Mr. Chairman to the chief um this

23:08particular piece of legislation, how

23:10would that really remedy the issue if

23:13say the appraisal on your side comes

23:16back higher?

23:17>> Chairman of the council member, as

23:19proposed in the legislation, we would be

23:21able to execute that easement

23:23>> anyway regardless.

23:25>> Chairman of the council member, that's

23:26correct. If it were over the $3,500. I

23:29see. Who pays the difference?

23:32>> Chairman, to the councilman, it would be

23:34the Department of Public Utilities.

23:35>> Okay. So, this will allow for the

23:37department to actually pay for whatever

23:40that fair market price would be

23:43>> for that easement chairman of the

23:44councilman. That's correct.

23:45>> And is most easements, Mr. Chairman, um

23:48to the chief this cost here or is it

23:50higher?

23:53chairman of the councilman, there's so

23:55many easements that we perform that um

23:58it's hard to put a average on it. Most I

24:02would say still come below because we're

24:04just encroaching on that corner or that

24:07small piece of a parcel that is very

24:09close to the right of way. So therefore,

24:11it would it wouldn't lend itself to any

24:13development of any kind. So, um, it's a

24:17mixed bag, but as everybody knows,

24:19prices have gone up exponentially, and,

24:22uh, the $3,500, as I, as I testified,

24:25has has in certain circumstances been,

24:29um, has affected a project.

24:31>> So, Mr. Chairman, on average, just out

24:33of curiosity, how many easements do we

24:35pay for u on an annual basis, and what

24:38does that look like in terms of

24:40budgeting?

24:42chairman of the council member. Um I

24:45mean it's it's weekly that we execute

24:48easements um from $1,000 up up to 3500

24:53where we would come back to council. So

24:55council has seen the prices and

24:57understood the fair market value of

24:59these easements but it is weekly not

25:01only in the city of Cleveland but

25:02throughout our on the water side

25:04throughout the distribution network.

25:06>> It would be interesting Mr. Chairman to

25:08to know how many easements we have on an

25:10annual basis. So I if the director could

25:13give me a general shot of that and then

25:15Mr. chairman to the director just for

25:18our sake of understanding how much is

25:20that on average costing the city of

25:22Cleveland on the annual basis and given

25:24that we will approve this here today um

25:28like you said the prices could be higher

25:33>> so we just don't know and then and just

25:35help me to kind of like understand this

25:38um a little bit better if if we go fair

25:40market price for this and it's higher

25:42than the 3000 I mean why go fair market

25:45price. Why why look at increasing the

25:48cost?

25:49>> Chairman of the council member. So that

25:50would be the fair market value as

25:52determined by an independent third party

25:54appraisal. So it it's still necessary

25:57for the project in many instances. As

25:59you know, pipes don't necessarily make

26:01right turns with with intersections. So

26:04there are certain circumstances where we

26:06would take a corner uh of private

26:09property. And again, it is an

26:11underground easement. We just say you

26:12can't build anything over it. and if it

26:14breaks, we need the ability to respond

26:15and fix. So, um there's all types of

26:19scenarios. Happy to get you that

26:20information. It shouldn't be a problem

26:22at all. I I appreciate it. Maybe I'm

26:24missing something here. Um and the

26:26reason why I say that is that if we're

26:28talking about um you know, making it

26:31fair market. Um [clears throat] it it it

26:36I don't know why we make it fair market.

26:37Seems like our cost would be higher. You

26:39know, it seems like this was a set price

26:40for a purpose that there was there was

26:42an intention to put this price here and

26:46I I don't understand how this gives

26:49value to us in making this decision to

26:51remove this to go with fair market

26:53pricing. So, can you kind of like

26:54clarify that so I can understand it

26:56because it doesn't make sense to me.

26:58>> Chairman of the council member, the 3500

27:01is the ceiling. That's the cap. So, it's

27:03always been fair market value.

27:04>> Okay. It's just that the director had

27:06standing authority for easements below

27:08$3,500 and now we're seeing more and

27:11more that these uh easements cost uh

27:14more than that.

27:15>> I see. No further questions, Mr.

27:17Chairman.

27:18>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Jones.

27:19Uh so, Director, this has been in place

27:21since 1984.

27:22>> Chairman, that's correct.

27:24>> Okay. So, all right. Uh any other

27:26questions

27:28on ordinance

27:3210372026

27:33as amended? Seeing no further questions,

27:35ordinance number 1037,

27:382026 as amended is approved. Please sign

27:41it.

27:42>> Thank you, chairman.

27:51Okay. Uh, commissioner

27:54in the back, Brown, come up.

27:59He only has one piece, director, right?

28:01>> Okay. I'm going to get him back to work.

28:06All right. Ordinance number 1137206.

28:10This is

28:14by Ordinance number 1137206

28:17by council members Bishop and Griffin.

28:19Department of Request an emergency

28:21ordinance authorizing the purchase by

28:23one or more standard and requirements

28:26contracts for the purchase lease or

28:28lease with options to purchase of

28:30various on-road vehicles apparatus

28:33and off-road equipment, cabs, bodies,

28:36and accessories. equipment and other

28:38aftermarket items necessary to equip

28:41vehicles authorized for the intended

28:43purposes including vehicle

28:45rehabilitation,

28:46training and inspections as needed for

28:49the department of public works. Okay,

28:51director.

28:52>> Thank you, chair. Uh this piece will uh

28:54passage of this legislation is necessary

28:56to ensure the replacement of city

28:59vehicles and equipment in the enterprise

29:01um area that will have outlived their

29:04useful life and are too expensive to

29:07continue or to maintain. So this is for

29:09vehicles that we will purchase for the

29:11department the division of water water

29:12pollution control and CPP typically the

29:15uh the utilities here. I have with me

29:16Commissioner Brown to answer any

29:18questions specifically that you may have

29:20about the piece.

29:21>> Okay. So this is director. This is out

29:23of enterprise.

29:24>> Yeah, that is correct.

29:25>> Enterprise funds.

29:27>> Okay. All right. Um All right. So we do

29:30this every year.

29:31>> Yes, that's that is correct.

29:33>> And we do it the same way, correct? Out

29:35of enterprise

29:35>> through Yes, that is correct.

29:37>> And this is is this is not a part of

29:39CIP.

29:41>> Uh no, this is not the same because it's

29:44enterprise enterprise

29:45>> funds. Okay. All right. Is there any

29:47questions or or on ordinance number

29:501137206?

29:53Councilman Harsh, I'm come back to you,

29:55Council Gay.

29:56>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is one of the

29:57reasons I was looking forward to this

29:58committee. I haven't had a chance to go

30:00over these issues in detail yet. So, I'm

30:02just curious um through the chair. Is

30:04the 10 million about our average annual

30:06expenditure for vehicle uh replacement?

30:09Is that pretty normal around here? Uh

30:11through the chair to the councilman for

30:12the enterprise fund, it typically ranges

30:14anywhere from 9 to 12 million per year.

30:17>> 9 to 12. Okay. And through the chair,

30:19why do we have to explain the I I know

30:22what an enterprise fund is? It's a

30:25self uh refills itself. But what

30:27enterprise fund specifically did these

30:29funds come from?

30:30>> Through the chair today, Councilman, the

30:32this legislation is for uh the division

30:35of water uh water pollution control and

30:38clean public power. I see. I see. So,

30:41they're uh through the chair, they're um

30:44utilizing your department to purchase

30:45the vehicles for them and they pay for

30:47it

30:47>> through the chair to the council. That's

30:49correct.

30:49>> Makes sense. Okay. Um and then last

30:52question. Uh the grand total on the um

30:54uh description of equipment is 13

30:57million uh 13.3 actually, but then the

31:00legislation is a uh is the u 10 million.

31:04So, through the chair, what's the

31:06difference there? through the chair to

31:08the councilman. Uh there is a line item

31:10on uh under WPC the sewer cleaning

31:13equipment that is uh that we actually

31:17utilize a grant through the Northeast

31:20Ohio Sewer District.

31:21>> So they reimburse us for the cost of

31:24that unit, although the the legislation

31:27has to be in place for the grant to be

31:29issued. Okay.

31:30>> So, you're seeing the difference between

31:32the cost of that unit and and what would

31:35be reimbursed for the grant.

31:37>> Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it.

31:39No more questions.

31:40>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Harris.

31:42Councilman Kazy.

31:44>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,

31:46to uh the director or the or the

31:49commissioner, why in and in and water do

31:52they need full-size vans and then cargo

31:55vans? And if I'm not mistaken, I

31:58remember I seeing those in previous

32:01years as well. So, how many do we have

32:04and what are the current conditions of

32:06the ones that we have

32:08>> through the chair to the councilman? So,

32:10there's actually three categories of of

32:13cargo vans for the division of water.

32:15And if you look at the uh where they're

32:17broken down 150, 250, that's different

32:19GVW. So, they're used for different

32:21operations. There are smaller vans like

32:24the 150s that are used for the meter

32:26reading operations. And then there are

32:27larger vans, the 250s and the 350s that

32:30actually uh go out in in are assigned to

32:34different parts of the pipe repair. So

32:37they carry more equipment.

32:39>> All right. I guess my my question would

32:41be Mr. Chairman to the commissioner,

32:43okay, what's do we know what the current

32:46condition of the fleet for water is? I I

32:50mean I'm understanding needing dump

32:52trucks and repair trucks and axle dumps

32:55and all that other stuff, right? I I get

32:56that, but I'm just wondering about these

32:58actually the cargo vans and the pickups

33:00when it seems like every year these are

33:03on the wish list, right? We don't need a

33:06new cargo van every year, right? And I'm

33:10just wondering

33:14what's the current condition and why the

33:17ask

33:18uh especially, you know, we're looking

33:21at seven new F-150 pickup trucks, right?

33:26We have no F-150 pickup trucks

33:28>> through the chair to the councilman.

33:30This is uh a replacement cycle. So we

33:33have the uh units at each location of

33:37water which are I want to say there's

33:39probably six or seven different

33:41locations and this is a a replacement

33:44cycle replace none of these are

33:46increasing the fleet size. This is all

33:49replacing what is already there. So

33:52units that have reached a certain

33:53mileage or certain condition they're

33:55being removed from service and replaced

33:57with these. I don't have the specific

34:00numbers of how many vans and pickup

34:02trucks are in the uh division of water

34:04fleet right now, but I certainly can

34:06provide that to you.

34:07>> Okay. I and I don't want to hold this

34:08up, Mr. Chairman, but what my request is

34:10going to be if we could please get the

34:13current inventory of all trucks through

34:17the Department of Public Utilities

34:18condition, mileage. Um, it just seems

34:21like we're this ask and I don't know if

34:24we actually do it, but the ask is here

34:25every year to replace these these trucks

34:28and I don't know how long a truck will

34:31last us, right? But, you know, I just

34:34think it's it's time that we just do,

34:36you know, our own due diligence to just

34:38get, you know, this information so that

34:41we make sure that we're not just

34:43replacing trucks to replace trucks. And

34:45I understand it's enterprise and all

34:46that other stuff, but that sometimes

34:47makes it even worse, right? Um, but if

34:49we could get that information, we'd

34:51appreciate it. Thank you.

34:52>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Kazy.

34:54Is there any other questions? Uh,

34:57Councilwoman Hudson. [clears throat]

34:59>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, through the

35:01chair, do is there like a standard

35:04mileage? Um, what determines when these

35:07vehicles are replaced?

35:09>> Uh, through the chair, to the council

35:10woman. Uh, there is not a standard

35:13mileage. There's a a we utilize what we

35:16call a point system in our fleet data

35:17management system. So it takes into

35:20consideration the mileage, the year, and

35:23the amount of of of life cycle cost of

35:26the vehicle. So over the over the course

35:28of the vehicle's life, how much how much

35:30u uh money has been put into it for

35:33repairs, what it was purchased for, and

35:35and what we would project it would cost

35:38to maintain it for another year. So

35:41those are the factors that

35:42>> so through the if I could add also uh to

35:44the council person you know some

35:45vehicles take a a lot more um a lot some

35:49vehicles are constantly running so

35:51they're like even though there may not

35:53be a lot of miles there may be a lot of

35:55work being done with that vehicle so it

35:56may take a lot more use than a vehicle

35:59that you know that is um not being for

36:03instance our waste collection trucks

36:05those are going to take a lot more than

36:06maybe a pickup truck that I use for our

36:08vacant properties. So it really does

36:09depend on the type of work that this

36:11this crew is doing, the amount that that

36:13that vehicle has to idle, if it has

36:16other pieces of equipment on it that it

36:17uses, hydraulics, things like that. So

36:18it really does depend on the type of

36:20work and the nature of work that that

36:22piece of equipment is being used to do.

36:24>> Okay. Thank you. So there's a through

36:26the chair a a formula that determines

36:28which vehicles are taken out of service

36:31>> through the chair to the counciloman.

36:32Absolutely. uh that is kind of what

36:34generates this ask based on when we do

36:38the review which you would see in the uh

36:40condition report in the inventory you

36:42would see the the rating of it and

36:44that's what generates this ask

36:46>> through thank you and through the chair

36:48is that done by um MVM motor vehicle

36:50maintenance or is that done by your

36:52department

36:53>> through the chair to the councilwoman

36:54that's in conjunction with the

36:56department of public utilities uh

36:58personnel

36:59>> okay thank you and then one final

37:00question um what happens to the vehicles

37:02that are decommissioned.

37:04>> Uh typically they are they are evaluated

37:07and determined whether or not they have

37:09any secondary use. Typically they don't.

37:11Uh then they are auctioned as surplus

37:14salvage vehicles. But through the chair

37:16uh to the council if if they do have

37:18some kind of life other divisions can

37:20use them and have used them. There are

37:22cases where vacant properties where

37:24we've used some of those for our

37:26seasonal people. So if there's a life

37:28that we can get out of that vehicle then

37:30we we try to do that. Otherwise, if not,

37:32again, we don't want to put our

37:33employees in danger. In some cases, some

37:35of these vehicles just aren't worth

37:37trying to put more work into because

37:38they they just may not be safe. But we

37:41try to I want to say one thing about the

37:43commissioner is that he will he will um

37:46squeeze every bit of life out of those

37:48vehicles that he can until it's not safe

37:49anymore. Right. And then once we get to

37:51that point, we have to move on.

37:53>> Okay. Thank you. That's all.

37:55>> All right. I'm gonna go to Councilman

37:56Kazy.

37:57>> Just to Mr. Chairman, just to follow up

37:58on that question. If those vehicles that

38:02are decommissioned go to another

38:04department, are they sold to the other

38:06department?

38:07>> Uh through the uh uh chairman to the

38:11council when uh vehicles coming out of

38:13DPU are not sold. The the only vehicles

38:16that come out of any division that would

38:19be sold are vehicles coming out of port

38:21control because they are typically

38:23bought with uh money from either the FHA

38:25or other types of grants. So there's a

38:27requirement there that they be sold,

38:29>> right? But if we're decommissioning

38:31something for DPU, right, which was paid

38:34for by rateayers dollars,

38:38we're not just taking that vehicle and

38:39giving it to another department for use,

38:42are we?

38:44The department has to get the the rate

38:46payers who paid for that vehicle have to

38:49be compensated somehow. I I I don't

38:53really know how to answer that question

38:55because typically there is a a life

38:58cycle that is associated with any

39:00vehicle once it meets that minimum life

39:03cycle. I don't know if there is a

39:05requirement that that vehicle uh that to

39:07be reimbursed to that division but I I I

39:10can't speak on that for sure.

39:12>> Okay. But if if the life cycle is done

39:14for DPU,

39:17>> right,

39:18but then we're giving it to another

39:20department,

39:22the life cycle is technically not done

39:24on that vehicle, right? I mean, we're

39:26still saying, "Oh, it's not good enough

39:28for water, but now parks can have it."

39:30You know what I'm saying?

39:31>> I I understand.

39:32>> So, some I'd like to know somehow, you

39:36know, what we do. And that's a great

39:38point that Councilwoman Hudson made. you

39:39know, what do we do with the

39:40decommissioned? And because they're paid

39:43for by rateayers dollars, somehow

39:45they've got to be reimbursed if if that

39:48vehicle is being passed on and not being

39:51used for DPU anymore. Thank you, Mr.

39:55Chairman.

39:56>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Kase,

39:58Councilman Jones.

39:59>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I see how

40:01that that kind of like works out in a

40:03sense from one department to the next

40:05department. And um I guess my question

40:08is if if the director could elaborate on

40:11the the auction process the you know

40:14what happens you know how how does it

40:16get to that how does it you know how

40:18does that entire process works through

40:20the chair to the councilman uh typically

40:22what happens is when the vehicle is

40:24turned in we do an evaluation on it and

40:27once it's determined that there's is no

40:29other useful life in it uh we uh go

40:32through the division of purchasing

40:34supplies it's determined that it is a

40:36salvage vehicle. And then typically uh

40:39we utilize a a um um operation called

40:43govdees.com.

40:45>> Govdealss.com.

40:47>> Govdealss.com. Go

40:49>> deals. Yes. And that is a a national

40:53site and that that is what they do. They

40:56auction off vehicles typically from

40:59municipalities uh state and federal

41:01government entities. And it's a it's a

41:03national auction. It's online and uh the

41:06vehicles are auctioned off in that

41:08manner. Uh you get a a very very w it's

41:11open to the public. It's open to anyone.

41:14Uh but we've seen that we have gotten

41:16the largest return for our vehicles

41:19utilizing that process because it brings

41:21the largest amount of of bidders in. We

41:23we have biders from all over the world

41:25bidding on this equipment. And we get uh

41:28we set reserves if we feel it's worth a

41:30certain amount of money and uh the

41:32vehicle's auctioned off, paid for, and

41:34picked up.

41:35>> I see. And when did we start doing that?

41:38>> Uh through the councilman or through the

41:40chair to the councilman. Uh we've been

41:41utilizing gub deals for I want to say

41:44about six, seven years.

41:49>> No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

41:51>> All right. Thank Councilman uh Jones.

41:53Any other questions on ordinance number

41:561137 2026?

41:59Seeing no further questions, ordinance

42:01number 1137206

42:03is approved. Please sign it.

42:05>> Thank you.

42:06>> All right, director, you done, right?

42:07>> No, I got

42:08>> Oh, you got to stay with them. Okay. All

42:10right. So, we're going to bring up next

42:11we're going to bring up our mocap.

42:30Good morning, director.

42:31>> Hey.

42:38All right, we're going to start off with

42:39uh ordinance number

42:44uh 1175 2026 by council members house

42:48Jones Conwell, Bishop Slife and Griffin

42:50is department of request

42:52um giving consent of the city of

42:56Cleveland to the director of

42:58transportation of the state of Ohio to

43:00construct the improvement of resurfacing

43:02way park Avenue from East 66 6 to East

43:05118 Street authorizing agreements and

43:08causing payment to the state with the

43:11city share of the improvements. Okay.

43:13Director.

43:14>> Uh Mr. Chairman. So, first of all, I'd

43:16like to um we all know uh Rex Fatowski,

43:19the manager of engineering and and uh

43:21construction to my right. To my left is

43:24uh Veronica Newsome. She's our section

43:26chief of design for ENC. And then uh to

43:30her left is Cameron Roberts and he's our

43:32vision zero coordinator.

43:34um also in engineering and construction.

43:37Um so this first ordinance um Rick is

43:39going to go through for us, but it is uh

43:41granting consent to ODOT for the

43:44improvement of Wade Park Avenue and

43:46that's between East 66th Street and East

43:49118th Street.

43:54You go

43:58everybody. Uh this project is on um Way

44:01Park. It's from East 66th Street to East

44:03118th Street.

44:06Uh the project information is a roadway

44:08improvement, asphalt resurfacing, base

44:10repairs, installation of five mini

44:12roundabouts and medium islands on Wade

44:15Park. Over 90% of the cars travel over

44:18the speed limit and installing mini

44:20roundabouts is a very effective way of

44:22reducing that. Uh the roundabouts have

44:24reduced crashes by about 60 to 80% in

44:27other locations. In Cleveland, uh,

44:29speeding has decreased significantly

44:30with percentage of drivers traveling

44:32over 25 miles per hour, dropping from

44:3467% to 17. And the many roundabouts are

44:39designed with a traversible center

44:40island to accommodate large trucks and

44:42buses and delivery trucks.

44:48Uh the project itself will have new

44:50protected bike lanes with the hel with

44:52with delineators and bike islands at

44:54intersections. Installing 88 compliant

44:56ramps and curb extensions. Repair of

44:58curb sidewalks, drive aprons, sidewalk

45:01deping along the corridor to increase

45:03greenery, pavement removal on anel road

45:06will eliminate unused roadway connection

45:08with no residential access. Simplifying

45:10the intersection, creating additional

45:12green space and accommodating

45:13construction of the roundabouts. signal

45:16removals and upgrades and updating

45:18signage and pavement markings.

45:20Oops. Thank you.

45:23Wrong way.

45:25Here you go. The funding for this

45:27project is we have uh Noaka STBG funding

45:31at 4.6 million. ODOT safety solicitation

45:34funding. Those are for the roundabouts

45:36that was 3.3. Doppick issue one 4.25.

45:40And our local match is $165,000 for a

45:43total of about $12 million.

45:49Uh the advertising date for this project

45:52is March of 2027.

45:54Construction will be May 2027 with

45:56completion in June 2028.

46:00Any questions?

46:02>> Uh yes. Uh where are these mini

46:04roundabouts going to be uh constructed?

46:07>> I'll tell you in a second. I've got that

46:08information here. Uh they're at weight

46:11park and get on weight park at Giddings

46:14and East 71st Street East 82nd and Anel

46:17East 108th and East 115th. I think I

46:21missed one.

46:22>> Is it going to be three?

46:23>> Five.

46:24>> Five.

46:25>> Check that again. I'm sorry.

46:29I think I said four.

46:32And I will say that part of what we

46:33heard from the community was that um the

46:37that while the community is in support

46:40of the mini roundabouts to reduce the

46:42speeds, they didn't want as many

46:44roundabouts as what you see on Franklin

46:45Avenue. Um so these were put in at the

46:48locations where they were most needed.

46:51>> So how many on Franklin?

46:53>> Seven on Franklin.

46:54>> Seven on Franklin. So we're going to do

46:55five over here.

46:56>> Yes, sir.

46:57>> Okay.

46:58Um, is there any questions on ordinance

47:01number

47:0311752026?

47:08>> Uh, Councilman Harsh.

47:15>> Do you have a cheat sheet?

47:18>> Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I just

47:21have a question about the funding

47:22source. I understand that we're putting

47:25a small amount to um capitalize on some

47:30available funds. Uh this is was part of

47:33the 2026 CIP list for the chair.

47:36>> Uh this should be um so you you saw

47:40design on the CIP list. Um and then

47:42construction uh should be on uh the 2027

47:46CIP list.

47:48>> Okay. Um because my question is about

47:50whether it's 2026 or 27. Um

47:54why was including it on the 2026 CIP

47:56list not inclusive of the entire project

47:59or is that just design?

48:00>> Uh uh through the chairman of the

48:02councilman because city council put a

48:03restriction on us that um through the

48:06capital improvement plan legislation

48:08that you have to spend uh that year's

48:11bond funds on the project. So

48:14>> I understand that. But shouldn't that

48:15shouldn't the 2026 bond funds be spent

48:17on this project?

48:19>> Uh so for design, yes, but ODOT will not

48:22give us an invoice for the amount that

48:24we need to pay them to um to have the

48:27full funding for the project until they

48:29bid the project. And that bidding won't

48:31occur until next year.

48:34>> But through the chair, we already know

48:36our estimated cost is 164763,

48:38right?

48:39>> That's correct. So through the chair, is

48:41that available in the 2026 bond?

48:43>> Um due to restrictions by your your

48:46colleagues, no, we can't do it that way.

48:48But we would very much like those

48:50restrictions to be lifted so that we

48:52could use uh the current bond year or

48:54the or the next bond year for uh capital

48:57projects.

48:59>> I guess I'm just confused, Mr. Chair,

49:01about how we schedule the payments on

49:03these. So, we included this in the

49:05capital improvement project for 2026,

49:08but it's the director's statement that

49:10only the uh the

49:14what what you call it the the design

49:15funds.

49:16>> The design funds was all that we could

49:18expend. So, wouldn't this then just be

49:20couched in the 2027 CIP request?

49:24>> Why is this a standalone then? I guess.

49:26>> Oh, through the chairman of the

49:27councilman. If Yes. So, if the question

49:29is why do we even need this legislation?

49:32It's to allow um ODOT to construct

49:35improvements in our right of way. So all

49:38of the legislation that you see today is

49:40giving consent to ODOT to construct on

49:44city of Cleveland right of way.

49:45>> I think I understand that part. I mean I

49:46I do get that we have to give them

49:48permission and that's fine. But I guess

49:49the question I'm asking, Mr. Chair, is

49:51why is this not why is why is the 2027

49:55designation of funding [clears throat]

49:57from bonds included in this legislation?

50:00uh through the chairman of the

50:01councilman. So, you're also going to see

50:03this on the 2027 CIP. Um so, we we

50:09always include the uh budgeted amounts

50:12in consent legislation to show council

50:16how much of our local dollars will be

50:18put into a project, but this doesn't um

50:21mean that it will not also be on the

50:232020 2027 CIP. I'm not sure if there's a

50:27better way to

50:28>> Well, I guess I guess so. the on so Mr.

50:31share on in in section 12 we have the

50:34amount that can be payable from funds

50:35and then we rattle off 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

50:4110 11 12 13 14 different fund uh uh fund

50:47numbers. Uh and then we say from the

50:49funds or funds to which are credited the

50:51proceeds from the sale of 2027 road and

50:54bridge bonds which haven't even been

50:56done yet and future road and bridge

50:58bonds that include this purpose. I guess

51:00what I'm trying to get at is through the

51:02chair, why aren't 14 [music] funding

51:04sources adequate to cover $167,000?

51:07Why do we have to go into the future in

51:09an unmarked territory?

51:12>> Um, so through the chairman of the

51:14councilman, I would have to look into

51:16what those uh separate funds are for.

51:18So, I can't answer that question uh

51:20right here at the table, but I can tell

51:23you that the $164,763

51:29um the the the the practice would be

51:34that you budget for a project in the

51:36year that you need the funds. Since we

51:38don't need the funds in 2026, we're not

51:41currently budgeting for the the local

51:44funds that are needed for this project.

51:46since they're needed in 2027. We

51:48reference that there'll be 2027 bond

51:50funds and then we budget for those bond

51:52funds in the CIP in 2027.

51:56>> Okay. So

51:59um

52:02then through the chair if we were to put

52:05a period on the end of and from the

52:07funds or funds to which are credited the

52:08proceeds from the sale of 2027 road and

52:10bridge bonds period

52:13that would cover the expense in the 2027

52:18CIP

52:19>> through the chairman Councilman. Yes.

52:21So, if you want to be sure that the

52:23project is not delayed, um, and that we

52:26would, if the project was delayed, we

52:28would have to come back to council to

52:30explain that the project was delayed and

52:33we're now seeking 2028 bond funds for

52:35that project, which is exactly what

52:37council does with the CIP each year.

52:43>> Yeah. So, I Okay. So, so it's an

52:45expenditure issue because we have to

52:47spend old modern funds first and and I

52:50guess what what was I I I don't

52:52understand and and I want to understand

52:54is why we don't have 167,000 in these 15

52:57cited sources and we want to include

52:59future revenue as well. If we've got to

53:01use the old revenue and this is a small

53:02dollar amount I think in terms of like

53:04the scale of projects 167,000 is not a

53:08lot for a for a history project. Why

53:10wouldn't we just leave it at the old uh

53:12money that still needs to be spent?

53:16>> Um maybe there's a disconnect. I don't

53:18know. What am I missing?

53:19>> Uh through the chairman council and each

53:21time you ask the question a little bit

53:22differently. So this time you're asking

53:24why we don't have $167,000 just sitting

53:27around to be spent on this project. And

53:29really the answer is because we put any

53:32excess funds we have into roadway

53:34resurfacings

53:35um or into project overruns. If ODOT

53:38bids a project and it comes in over

53:40budget, then we have to put in

53:42additional funds as this ordinance

53:44allows to um meet the um ODOT's uh bid

53:49amount for the project. Or we could tell

53:51ODOT that we choose not to move forward

53:53with the project. But typically we use

53:55our excess funds to either pay for um

53:58projects that come in over budget or to

54:00do certain repavings that are um you

54:04know this year we had to put some money

54:05into Rocky River Road because the

54:07condition was was so bad that was an

54:09unplanned um expenditure that was needed

54:13by the community. So we put money into

54:15for instance Rocky River Road.

54:20>> Okay, that's fine.

54:25It's still not working. So,

54:30we have emergencies that pop up. I get

54:32that. And if we allocate 15 different

54:35revenue sources and 2027,

54:40you then think we still need to also

54:41include and future road and bridge bonds

54:43that include this purpose

54:45uh through the chairman of the

54:46councilman. That's our typical language.

54:48If council wishes to amend it, you may

54:50do so, but that is our typical language.

54:52Yes.

54:53Well, Mr. Chair, there's there's a

54:55proposal here for an amendment to remove

54:58uh on line 12 um the what is that two?

55:04>> The seventh sentence onward and just put

55:07a period after 20 SF729.

55:10>> Okay.

55:10>> Um and so the the proposal, Mr. chair is

55:14that we remove uh strike and from the

55:17funer funds to which are credited the

55:18proceeds from the sale of the 2027 road

55:20and bridge bonds and future road and

55:23bridge bonds that include this purpose.

55:24>> Okay. All right. Director, would that um

55:28would that ruffle the feathers of

55:31>> uh Mr. Chairman? Um we we don't have

55:35this money sitting around right now. So

55:37we do plan to put this in the CIP for

55:392027.

55:40>> Okay. So, I'm not sure why council would

55:42not want us to use the next year's bond

55:44funds, but um we could um we would have

55:47to come back to the table next year um

55:50when the CIP is is uh brought before um

55:55you know, I I'm not sure. It just it's

55:57just not the way we do things.

55:59>> So, if we put it up to that amount, that

56:02would be fine. Director.

56:04>> Uh no, sir. So, Rick, if you could

56:06explain the bidding process. We've

56:08explained this at the table a couple

56:09times about how it works with ODOT

56:11>> to the chair. The way ODOT does their uh

56:13sales their project is that we grant

56:16them consent and in this consent they

56:18also tell us about what the cost is

56:20going to be. So that sits there until

56:22the project is sold and this project's

56:25selling

56:27see the date again March 2027th. So

56:30probably January, March, February, we'll

56:32get an invoice from them. And until we

56:34get that invoice, we can't do anything

56:35with the funds. Can't certify them yet

56:38until we have their invoice, then we

56:39certify the funds. So that's why they're

56:41in 2027 at this point.

56:43>> Okay.

56:44>> And if we if that language within the

56:47ordinance in in 12, it says the

56:49estimated amount. The problem is if the

56:51amount comes over, we have no other

56:53funds beside that set number. If that

56:55estimate's taken off, if it comes in

56:57high by 5%, we have to have 5% of

57:00additional funds, say 175,000.

57:03>> Okay.

57:03>> But that how much time?

57:05>> Right. Within 4 days.

57:07>> Okay.

57:07>> So, we can't come back to the table.

57:09>> Okay. All right. Councilman Harsh.

57:12>> So, Mr. Chair, I'll withdraw the

57:13amendment proposal and I'll propose a

57:16new amendment on the last line. Um,

57:19after road and bridge bonds, insert a

57:22period and strike and future road and

57:25bridge bonds that include this purpose.

57:28So, 2027's included.

57:31>> All right. All right. Councilman Harsh

57:32has an amendment on the table. Uh, is

57:35there a second?

57:36>> Second.

57:37>> Councilman Kazy seconds it. Uh, is there

57:40any discussion?

57:42Um, all in favor of the amendment say I.

57:46>> I. All opposed. The eyes have it. All

57:50right. Any other questions on ordinance

57:52number? Uh, Councilman Councilwoman

57:56Hudson.

57:58>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, through the

58:00chair to um

58:02I think Director D. Roza.

58:04>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, are we

58:07finished with the amendment?

58:08>> We did. Yes.

58:09>> All right. The amendment carries. Okay.

58:10All right. Go ahead, council.

58:12>> Okay. Thank you. um through the chair to

58:15the director who does um the

58:18installation, you know, the actual

58:20construction of um traffic calming

58:23projects like this. Is there a special

58:25department in the city or is it the

58:27same? Do you contract it out?

58:31>> So, uh through the chairman of the

58:32council woman. So, this is um this is a

58:35roadway resurfacing project that also

58:38includes safety elements. Um all of our

58:41projects are um bid out by ODOT. They

58:45hire a contractor and that contractor

58:47performs the construction work. So that

58:49includes the resurfacing and any safety

58:51elements in here. If it was a standalone

58:54safety project that was done with um

58:58city resources, then it most likely

59:01would be handled by the Department of

59:02Public Works, the Division of Traffic

59:04Engineering.

59:05>> Okay. Thank you. Um and through the

59:08chair um to Mr. Swatski,

59:13do does the division of traffic

59:15engineering um design and and um you

59:20know build these

59:23projects

59:24>> to the chair to the council woman. Uh

59:26traffic we work closely with traffic

59:28engineering. Basically, they tell us

59:30what safety items they want to see put

59:32in place on our projects and then we

59:34construct them and in the manner they

59:36wish to see them as long as we have a

59:37budget for them. But stuff like speed

59:40tables, those are all done by division

59:42of streets with traffic engineering's

59:44help.

59:44>> Okay. So, through the through the chair

59:46are speed tables the only traffic

59:48calming projects that are done by the

59:50division of um streets.

59:53I

59:56>> director.

59:58>> Oh, he's gone.

59:59>> Okay.

1:00:00>> I I I don't know enough about it to say

1:00:02that and limit him to just one. They may

1:00:04do others. I don't know.

1:00:05>> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out um

1:00:07you know, through the chair,

1:00:11you know, the timeline, the if if all of

1:00:14these traffic calming projects are um

1:00:17you know, contracted out or if any of

1:00:20them are done inhouse.

1:00:23uh through the chairman of the council

1:00:24woman. So all the ordinances you hear

1:00:26today are through MOAP and they're all

1:00:28contracted out by ODOT. Um so um but

1:00:32there are um there are safety measures

1:00:36whether they be um um you know certain

1:00:40signals, crosswalks, um speed tables,

1:00:44striping that are done inhouse by the

1:00:47Department of Public Works.

1:00:50>> Okay. And is there a backlog or um is

1:00:53like what's the timeline for getting a

1:00:54project like this

1:00:56>> started

1:00:57>> through the chairman of the council when

1:00:58it's not our department so I really

1:01:00don't know.

1:01:03>> So that would be a question for the

1:01:05division of public works.

1:01:06>> It'd be for the department of public

1:01:08works. If you're asking about if they

1:01:10have a backlog I can't answer that

1:01:12question. So you'd have to ask that

1:01:14department.

1:01:15>> Okay. I'm just trying to place, you

1:01:17know, where certain projects are, you

1:01:20know, not resurfacing projects, but

1:01:22other um larger uh traffic calming

1:01:25projects such as this uh speed t I'm

1:01:28sorry, uh roundabout project

1:01:32>> uh through the chairman of the

1:01:33councilman. Are you speaking about this

1:01:34roundabout project?

1:01:36>> This project? Yes.

1:01:37>> So, this project is a mocap project.

1:01:39We've received uh federal and state

1:01:41funding for it. Therefore, it must be

1:01:44bid out by ODOT for the construction.

1:01:47It's not a project that we would handle

1:01:48in-house. Anytime that we have federal

1:01:51or state funding, we uh work with ODOT

1:01:55to uh put that construction project out

1:01:58on the street for a bid and hire a

1:02:00contractor through ODOT. Okay?

1:02:02>> This is not something that we would

1:02:03handle in house.

1:02:04>> Okay. So, it's the through the chair.

1:02:06It's the um federal and state money is

1:02:10what triggers MOAP's involvement.

1:02:13Uh, it's the scale of the through the

1:02:15councilman to the through the chairman

1:02:17person to the councilwoman. It's really

1:02:18the scale of the project. This

1:02:20multi-million dollar project is too

1:02:22large to be done in-houseed by the

1:02:24division of streets.

1:02:26>> Okay. So, MOAP handles larger projects.

1:02:30Correct. And then um smaller projects

1:02:32such as side street resurfacing and

1:02:34speed tables are handled in-house by the

1:02:37department of public works and the

1:02:38division of streets.

1:02:39>> That is correct.

1:02:40>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Sure.

1:02:42>> All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh,

1:02:44Councilwoman, is that is that that clear

1:02:46everything up for you?

1:02:47>> I think so.

1:02:48>> Okay. It's complicated. So,

1:02:50>> but yeah, thank you for the questions.

1:02:52Uh, get some understanding. All right.

1:02:54Is there any other questions on

1:02:55ordinance 1175 2026? Seeing no further

1:02:59questions. Ordinance 1175

1:03:032026 is approved as amended.

1:03:13All right. Ordinance. Uh, director, is

1:03:15there any one you want to do first?

1:03:17>> Uh, no, sir.

1:03:18>> All right. Ordinance number 1174 2026 by

1:03:22council member House Jones, Conwell,

1:03:24Palencic, Bishop, Slife, and Griffin by

1:03:26departmental request. an emergency

1:03:29ordinance giving the consent of the city

1:03:31of Cleveland to the director of

1:03:33transportation of the state of Ohio to

1:03:35construct the target speed pilot project

1:03:39counter measures on a portion of St.

1:03:41Clair Avenue authorizing agreements and

1:03:44causing payments to the state for the

1:03:45city share of the improvement.

1:03:48All right, director.

1:03:49>> Mr. chairman. So, this this ordinance

1:03:51again is what we call consent

1:03:53legislation which authorizes the

1:03:56Department of Transportation to make

1:03:58improvements to city streets. Um, this

1:04:00consent is for an improvement called the

1:04:03St. Clair Avenue target speed project,

1:04:06which is between East 101st Street and

1:04:08East 151st Street. This is um a 56

1:04:14East 156th Street, excuse me. Um this

1:04:18project is um one of many projects

1:04:22coming for St. Clair Avenue um because

1:04:24St. Clair Avenue is a high crash

1:04:27corridor and so the city over multiple

1:04:29years and multiple projects is going to

1:04:32uh address um the pavement conditions

1:04:35and um

1:04:38the um the reasons why we've identified

1:04:41crashes are happening so frequently on

1:04:43the corridor. So Rick is going to go

1:04:45through a presentation here to go

1:04:46through that. Um the most important

1:04:49piece about this too is that we did um

1:04:51go after highway safety improvement

1:04:53program funds which is a special pot of

1:04:56funding for safety improvements.

1:04:59>> Okay. Director, before we um have Mr.

1:05:02Spowski of the presentation, the dollar

1:05:05amount for this uh project is 1.6

1:05:08million to the city share. Uh, the city

1:05:11share should be 2.1 million.

1:05:14>> 1.628.

1:05:15>> Oh, okay. You guys got a different

1:05:17number.

1:05:18>> Okay. Because we got two different

1:05:19figures here, director. We just want to

1:05:21clarify. We got um 2.1 and then we got

1:05:241.6.

1:05:26>> That's the 14.

1:05:27>> I'll defer to Rick on this question.

1:05:31>> Legislation has 1.628

1:05:34>> 1.628.

1:05:36>> Okay. So, in our summaries, in our

1:05:38executive summaries, it was 2.1 million.

1:05:40Is that correct?

1:05:41>> That's correct.

1:05:42>> So that's that's erroneous, right?

1:05:44>> That is incorrect number sir.

1:05:46>> Okay. So um

1:05:48>> be shown as in section 12 of of the um

1:05:51organs.

1:05:52>> So in the legislation it's 1.6 million.

1:05:54>> Yes sir.

1:05:55>> So do we have to correct your ex

1:05:57executive summary for the record? Do we

1:05:58have to correct that?

1:06:00>> We'll we'll provide you with the revised

1:06:02>> Okay. All right.

1:06:03>> All right. Mr. Swattowski, you can go

1:06:05ahead with your presentation.

1:06:07>> Sure. Thank you. uh to the charted

1:06:09committee. These this project is a

1:06:11target speed project along St. uh Clare

1:06:13from East 101st to East 156th Street.

1:06:16Again, we'll correct that uh in the

1:06:19legislative brief. It has East 51st. Uh

1:06:23this project was funded by ODOT. ODOT

1:06:26goes out throughout the state. Would a

1:06:28$20 million bucket of money to look at

1:06:30what corridors were the most unsafe in

1:06:32the state and St. declared was one of

1:06:34the top ones if I if I believe it is the

1:06:36top uh corridor for uh not being safe

1:06:39and excessive car crashes. This

1:06:42particular ODOT project uses roadway

1:06:44design to encourage 25 mph speeds and

1:06:46improves safety for all users. Uh it

1:06:49implements proven speed management,

1:06:51pedestrian safety improvements

1:06:52consistent with ODOT design standards.

1:06:54I'm sorry.

1:06:55>> Yeah, I'll flip it. Yeah, thank you.

1:06:59You go to the next one.

1:07:03I'm going to turn it over to Cameron

1:07:05Rogers. He's our vision zero

1:07:06coordinator. Maybe to pick it up from

1:07:08here and lend some insight into the

1:07:09target speed program.

1:07:15>> Sure. Thank you. Uh and good morning,

1:07:16council members. Uh so, as Mr. Wasowski

1:07:19was saying uh this project is funded

1:07:21through a uh specific program that ODOT

1:07:24put together to target uh corridors in

1:07:27the state that are identified as the

1:07:29most unsafe corridors based off of the

1:07:32number of fatal and serious injury

1:07:33crashes that are happening. Um and St.

1:07:36Clair um is one of those uh top most

1:07:39dangerous deadly corridors. Uh in fact

1:07:42there is a specific one half mile

1:07:43segment within this project extent that

1:07:46ranks number one in the entire state of

1:07:48Ohio based off those numbers of fatal

1:07:49and serious injury crashes that are

1:07:50happening. Uh so the top goal of this

1:07:53program is uh to um it's called the

1:07:56target speed program. So it's focused on

1:07:59reducing speeds. We know that there's a

1:08:01direct correlation between speed and

1:08:03severity of crashes. The higher that

1:08:05people are going or faster that people

1:08:06are going the more likely that crash is

1:08:08going to be more severe. Uh so the goal

1:08:12here is to target trying to get drivers

1:08:14to go between 20 to 30 miles per hour.

1:08:16Uh that's one of the u metrics that

1:08:18they're going to be using to measure

1:08:20success. Um and then from the safety

1:08:22perspective um looking to observe

1:08:25reductions in these injury related and

1:08:28fatal and serious injury crashes that

1:08:30are occurring.

1:08:32Uh next slide please.

1:08:36Uh so this project includes um a number

1:08:39of roadway improvements. Um so uh this

1:08:41is also a resurfacing project. So it

1:08:44will include a full resurfacing of the

1:08:45roadway. Um making all of the curb ramps

1:08:48ADA compliant. Um updating all the

1:08:51signage and and um paint markings as

1:08:54well as some traffic signal um upgrades.

1:08:57Uh but the specific safety improvements

1:08:59include um adding uh buffered on street

1:09:03bike lanes, adding raised medians,

1:09:06um adding some floating bus stops, which

1:09:09essentially allows someone um that's

1:09:12looking to go to the bus to be able to

1:09:13go out to the drive lane rather than the

1:09:15bus having to encroach into the bike

1:09:17lane to get to the people waiting at the

1:09:18curb. Um it also include a road diet, so

1:09:22reducing the number of lanes. Right now,

1:09:24St. declares two lanes in each

1:09:26direction. It will um as part of this

1:09:28project be one lane in each direction

1:09:30with a center lane which allows the

1:09:32excess space to be used for the

1:09:33separated bike lanes. Um and then also

1:09:36enhancing some crosswalks, making some

1:09:38high visibility and also adding a few

1:09:40raised crossings as well.

1:09:44Uh so the entire construction cost

1:09:46estimate is $7.3 million. Um this is

1:09:50funded through um both federal and local

1:09:53funding. So, the federal share is a

1:09:55little over 5.6 million. Um, and the

1:09:58local share is 1,628,937.

1:10:07Uh, for the schedule, uh, this project

1:10:09will be um bid out in April of 2027. Uh,

1:10:13construction is anticipated to start in

1:10:15June of 2027 and be complete by October

1:10:18of 2027.

1:10:22>> All right. Thank you for that. Um, are

1:10:24you done?

1:10:25>> Yes.

1:10:26>> So, is this going to be just on a

1:10:28portion of St. Clair? What what what

1:10:29what part of St. Clair will this will

1:10:32this um

1:10:35this target speed pilot project counter

1:10:37measures uh be placed on?

1:10:41>> Uh, Mr. Chairman, I did put a map up on

1:10:43the screen. So, it's St. Clair between

1:10:45East 101st Street to East 156th Street.

1:10:50>> Okay. All right. All right.

1:10:51>> 101 to 156.

1:10:53>> Okay. All right. Is there any questions

1:10:54on ordinance 1174 2026?

1:10:58Councilman Kazy.

1:11:00>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,

1:11:01to the director, um when you were doing

1:11:04the study or to to Cam, whoever can

1:11:07answer, when you're doing the study,

1:11:08what was the um ratio of bikes to

1:11:12vehicles in that area? See, and you're

1:11:15putting protected bike lanes in,

1:11:17correct? So, what is the what was the

1:11:19use for bikes uh along St. Clair?

1:11:25>> Uh through the chair to the council

1:11:26member. Uh I don't have that exact data

1:11:28on hand right now. Um I would imagine it

1:11:31is quite low um just based off of the

1:11:33current conditions of the corridor. Um

1:11:35you know, it's a uh unsafe corridor.

1:11:38When we looked at the crash data right

1:11:39now, there's a lot of these very severe

1:11:41crashes happening. uh which in turn I

1:11:43would guess makes it feel very unsafe

1:11:45and uncomfortable for someone to bike

1:11:47right now. So it's almost like this

1:11:48chicken and egg scenario where you know

1:11:50people um aren't biking on the street

1:11:52because they don't feel safe right now.

1:11:54Um so we really have to improve that

1:11:56like comfortability comfortability and

1:11:59safety uh before people would even be

1:12:01willing to use the corridor for that

1:12:03purpose.

1:12:03>> All right, Mr. Chairman, to the

1:12:04director, in [laughter] in the study

1:12:06that was done, how many um fatalities

1:12:09did we have with bikes over there?

1:12:13through the chair. I want to clarify

1:12:16with the word study. Um, ODOT selected,

1:12:19they got together at the state level to

1:12:22look at the corridors that are the most

1:12:25problematic throughout the state and

1:12:28they set aside $20 million. They reached

1:12:31out to the city of Cleveland and

1:12:33notified us that the St. Clair corridor

1:12:35was their number one and four statewide.

1:12:39and they asked our team to work on a

1:12:43program and they wanted to look

1:12:48throughout the state

1:12:51at the proposed treatments so that they

1:12:54could carry these statewide.

1:12:58So you'll see that they want to reduce

1:13:00speeds, improve safety, and inform

1:13:03future ODOT practices statewide. Um, so

1:13:06I don't

1:13:09I just want to be clear that the words

1:13:11that they use are target speed program

1:13:14pilot. Um, when they say study, this is

1:13:18one of those 10 that they wish to study

1:13:21to

1:13:23um impact their statewide practices.

1:13:28Well,

1:13:28>> Mr. Chairman, to the presenter, I I

1:13:31understand that. I'm I'm not I'm not

1:13:33knocking the study. I I'm just I'm

1:13:35asking questions because that's my job,

1:13:38right? And I want to assure that if this

1:13:41is the most dangerous section of

1:13:44transportation in the state of Ohio,

1:13:46that we're not going to do something to

1:13:49put more individuals

1:13:51uh at risk by including the bike lanes

1:13:55that aren't there anymore. if it's if

1:13:58it's that dangerous, right? I don't want

1:14:00anybody to be put in harm more in more

1:14:03of a harm's way. Hoping maybe if it's

1:14:06not used as if if it's not used for

1:14:09bicycle transportation right now, right?

1:14:12And we know that it's that dangerous and

1:14:14we're putting access for bike lanes in

1:14:16and I'm for bike lanes, do not get me

1:14:18wrong. I'm just I'm just questioning or

1:14:20asking and that's my job so I'm entitled

1:14:23to do that. I'm asking if this is if

1:14:26this is an appropriate area because of

1:14:29the danger. Now hopefully with the

1:14:32improvements it would, you know, bring

1:14:35that risk of somebody getting hurt or

1:14:38even a fatality down, but I'm just and I

1:14:43understand the concept of it all, but I

1:14:45I just want to make sure that we're not

1:14:47putting if it's that dangerous the worst

1:14:51in the state of Ohio that we're not

1:14:54doing anything that's going to put

1:14:56anybody else at more risk by by using by

1:14:59utilizing bike lanes. Again, I'm for the

1:15:02bike lanes. I just I'm just I think I'm

1:15:04just asking is this is this the

1:15:05appropriate place for them or could it

1:15:09just be that we calm the traffic there

1:15:12then add bike lanes right once once we

1:15:14bring that safety factor to a much lower

1:15:18level. Um Councilman through chairman it

1:15:21great question. Um we we certainly don't

1:15:25want to bring people into a dangerous

1:15:28city situation. Um we also at the city

1:15:32have um you know a perspective that

1:15:34every road doesn't need to have bike

1:15:36lanes. You could have bike lanes on

1:15:38parallel streets provide what the

1:15:40community needs without um providing the

1:15:43same um functionality of every single

1:15:45street. So great question Cameron. Could

1:15:49you speak to how um the bike lanes are

1:15:53going to be treated? If it's through um

1:15:56hardscaping or striping or how how we're

1:16:00going to protect um bikes and how this

1:16:02is intended to be constructed.

1:16:04>> Yes. Um so through the chair to the

1:16:06councilman, um I think maybe the key

1:16:08point to bring up here is that the bike

1:16:11lanes are just one of a multitude of

1:16:13safety elements that are included in

1:16:14this project. Um, so there are many

1:16:17elements put in place that are going to

1:16:18be helping to reduce the speeds that

1:16:20we're seeing right now, which is why

1:16:22we're seeing a lot of these very severe

1:16:23crashes happening. Uh, so things like

1:16:25the raised crossings, which almost

1:16:27function like a speed table in a way,

1:16:29uh, as a way to slow down uh, vehicles

1:16:31on the corridor. We're going to be

1:16:33adding in uh, medians in the center of

1:16:35the road. Uh we know through roadway

1:16:38safety research that there is a

1:16:39correlation between when a road feels

1:16:42really wide, people tend to drive faster

1:16:44even unc like subconsciously. And so by

1:16:47making the road feel more narrow, um

1:16:48that's automatically going to cause

1:16:51drivers to feel a little uncomfortable

1:16:52and then drive slower as a result. And

1:16:54so um both the medians that we're adding

1:16:57as well as the separation for the bike

1:16:59lanes through those vertical delineators

1:17:01are going to help uh create that sort of

1:17:03feeling of a more narrow street. Uh so

1:17:06you know the the goal is that all of

1:17:08these things combined will contribute to

1:17:09the slower speeds which when all working

1:17:12together will therefore make the road

1:17:14safer for people biking.

1:17:17>> All right, Mr. Chairman to the director.

1:17:18I just want to make sure that that if

1:17:20we're putting these bike lanes in that

1:17:22the bicyclists are are well protected.

1:17:24um

1:17:25>> knowing that we know already that this

1:17:28is the worst

1:17:31>> corridor in the state of Ohio that we're

1:17:34not putting anybody at risk by adding

1:17:37the by adding the bike lanes into

1:17:39something dangerous and it's not

1:17:40something we couldn't do later once we

1:17:42calm the traffic down. Thank you, Mr.

1:17:44Chairman.

1:17:44>> All right. Thank you, Council Gra. Uh

1:17:46great line of questioning. I'm going to

1:17:47go to Councilwoman Hudson.

1:17:51>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um and along those

1:17:54lines, um you mentioned that the uh

1:17:56through the chair that the bike lanes

1:17:58are buffered with vertical delineators.

1:18:01Um

1:18:02did you explore using some other type of

1:18:05separation um such as you know a

1:18:07concrete barrier or something like that?

1:18:13>> Uh through the chair to the council

1:18:14woman. Um I I don't believe so. I think

1:18:17uh the delineators were sort of seen as

1:18:19the most coste effective um treatment

1:18:22for us to implement here just based off

1:18:24of the funding that was available for

1:18:26the project.

1:18:26>> And will there be um a bike lane on each

1:18:29side of the road or is it just on one

1:18:31side?

1:18:31>> It will be um a bike lane on each side

1:18:33of the road. So both an eastbound and a

1:18:34westbound bike lane.

1:18:36>> Okay. And um you mentioned the uh raised

1:18:40crosswalks. How many of those are part

1:18:42of this project?

1:18:44uh through the chair to the council

1:18:46woman. Um I don't know the exact

1:18:47quantity off the top of my head, but

1:18:49that's certainly information that we

1:18:51could get and send out to the committee.

1:18:53>> Yeah, I'm I'm curious about um you know,

1:18:55how many raised crosswalks there are and

1:18:58uh the location of the raised crosswalks

1:19:00like is every crosswalk on this corridor

1:19:03of raised crosswalk or are there certain

1:19:05streets that were prioritized

1:19:07>> through the chair? It's it's not every

1:19:09crosswalk crosswalk. So there were

1:19:10certain ones that were prioritized for

1:19:12that treatment. I I'm also, you know, I

1:19:13do share C councilman Kazy's concern

1:19:17about the bike lanes and the the safety

1:19:19of those. Um, you know, ideally it would

1:19:22be separated with something other than

1:19:24uh delineators. Um, but I understand

1:19:27there's, you know, a cost involved. Um,

1:19:31do you know, um, how many pedestrian or

1:19:35traffic fatalities have um, occurred in

1:19:38this corridor?

1:19:43Uh so through the chair to the the

1:19:44council woman um looking at crash data

1:19:47between 2020 to 2024 so a 5-year period

1:19:52there were 14 people killed and 79

1:19:55people who were seriously injured uh

1:19:56through this section of St. Clair.

1:19:59>> In through the chair in um vehicle

1:20:02[clears throat] crashes

1:20:03>> correct? Yeah.

1:20:04>> Does that include pedestrian fatalities?

1:20:07That would include um any mode,

1:20:09transportation mode that was involved in

1:20:11some type of vehicle crash. Yes.

1:20:13>> So it would also include um bike,

1:20:16>> pedestrians, bikes, uh wheelchair users,

1:20:19so on, scooters. Yes.

1:20:20>> Okay. Thank you. Um

1:20:27and through the chair are the raised

1:20:30crosswalks

1:20:32um is that the only type of you know

1:20:37speed table or um element like that as

1:20:40part of this project

1:20:42>> through the chair to the council woman.

1:20:44um that would be the only type of safety

1:20:47element to that effect where um we call

1:20:48it like vertical deflection is the the

1:20:51term essentially something that requires

1:20:53a vehicle to be raised up and have to

1:20:55slow down as a result. Yes.

1:20:56>> Okay. So um would it be fair through the

1:20:59chair to say that the you know that's

1:21:02the main or there's there's multiple

1:21:05mechanisms that you're that you're using

1:21:07to try and slow traffic down. Um you

1:21:10through the chair you said um

1:21:13centerline hardening was part of it,

1:21:17road diet and then these raised

1:21:20crosswalks.

1:21:23>> Yeah. Through the chairman and the

1:21:24council woman. There's a there's a list

1:21:26of different elements there. Um and and

1:21:29I think the thing to um highlight here

1:21:32is that because of this specific safety

1:21:34grant, we were able to explore many more

1:21:38different options than is typical on a

1:21:41roadway that doesn't have such big

1:21:42safety concerns. So that's why you see

1:21:45such a wide range of um safety elements

1:21:48added to this project.

1:21:50>> And so through the chair, you said it

1:21:52was a pilot program for the state.

1:21:54And so, um, is there a way to measure or

1:21:58are you do you plan to study, um, the

1:22:01the change in, um, vehicle speeds and

1:22:06crash data associated

1:22:08after the project is

1:22:10>> through the chair, the council woman?

1:22:11Absolutely. Yeah. So, data has already

1:22:13been collected uh, you know, prior to

1:22:15construction related to the speeds that

1:22:16we're seeing right now. So we will be

1:22:18able to go in after implementation and

1:22:20see whether um you know measure the

1:22:22effectiveness of this project and

1:22:25similarly we will continue to look at

1:22:26the crash data as well and see how that

1:22:28changes.

1:22:28>> Thank you. And through the chair then

1:22:30will this I I understand that this is a

1:22:32state pilot project but then um would

1:22:35the city also be um you know considering

1:22:38more of these traffic calming elements

1:22:40on other corridors as well? uh through

1:22:43the chairman, the councilman, we we are

1:22:45currently um using um the the

1:22:48appropriate safety intervention, if you

1:22:51will, at different streets around the

1:22:54city. So, it's not a one-sizefititall

1:22:57approach as as you can understand. Um

1:22:59there's different considerations for

1:23:01different streets, but yes, we are

1:23:03utilizing and some were already in the

1:23:06system. Some are being first installed

1:23:09through this program and and ODOT's

1:23:13measure of success is on this slide

1:23:15right there. So there will be um a post

1:23:19construction

1:23:20um data collection to see if this is

1:23:23successful that will inform us and ODOT.

1:23:27>> Okay. Thank you. and through the chair.

1:23:29Are these the first raised crosswalks

1:23:31that will be installed through the city

1:23:32or do we already have some?

1:23:34>> Through the chair to the councilwoman. I

1:23:36believe these will be the first raised

1:23:37crosswalks in the city.

1:23:38>> Okay. Thank you. I just spent the

1:23:40weekend in Cincinnati visiting my

1:23:42daughter for parents weekend. Cincinnati

1:23:44has raised crosswalks all over the

1:23:46place.

1:23:47>> Um it's very hilly. Um they seem to be

1:23:50successful in in calming down traffic. I

1:23:53also noticed they use um

1:23:57not sure if they they call them speed

1:23:58humps, but it's like a speed cushion

1:24:00where um vehicles with uh larger axles

1:24:04can um proceed across, you know, like an

1:24:06ambulance or a fire truck without having

1:24:09to actually go over the the speed table

1:24:12itself on main corridors because I know

1:24:14right now um the city of Cleveland

1:24:16doesn't use um well, up until now um the

1:24:21sorry, I forget the term that you use,

1:24:23but the the vertical

1:24:25>> um

1:24:25>> defction

1:24:26>> deflection. Thank you. The vertical

1:24:28deflection on main corridors. So, um on

1:24:32a street like St. Clair, um Detroit,

1:24:34Superior, streets like that where um

1:24:38it's there's heavy use by emergency

1:24:40vehicles. Um it's I'm excited to see

1:24:44this and I'd like to see more of it.

1:24:48That's all.

1:24:49>> All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh

1:24:50Councilman Jones.

1:24:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you uh to

1:24:55the director and your team. Um I think

1:24:57that you know since the time I've been

1:24:59here, you you've done a good job and um

1:25:02I really appreciate this project. I want

1:25:05to ask start out by asking a question

1:25:07and it's along the same line of

1:25:09questions but a different thought um

1:25:11than my colleague uh Councilman Kazy and

1:25:14also my colleague uh Nikki Hudson

1:25:16[clears throat]

1:25:17um as relates to the traffic here on

1:25:19this particular street. H what is your

1:25:22traffic volume on this street on an

1:25:24average day?

1:25:27>> Do you know okay?

1:25:30>> Um Mr. Chairman, the councilman, I'm not

1:25:33sure that we have that right on us, but

1:25:34we can get that for you.

1:25:36>> Well, we certainly would love to have it

1:25:38given the fact that there's 14 deaths

1:25:40that's happened on this road in 5 years

1:25:42and 79 um injuries. And so I thought

1:25:47that that would be the first thing you

1:25:48would have, right? Um here here's my

1:25:51thought, Mr. Chairman. Um because this

1:25:53is really important. Um and I'm seeing a

1:25:56lot of this and I I started dealing with

1:25:58it in my own community when I first got

1:26:00back into public office in 2018. I met

1:26:02with Mr. Richard Swistoski to talk about

1:26:05Miles Road and receiving funds from the

1:26:07state of Ohio in order to do those roads

1:26:10came with um conditions and if we wanted

1:26:14the money we had to follow those

1:26:16conditions that the state had uh put

1:26:19down on us. uh and I I didn't too much

1:26:23like it and um and the reasons why I did

1:26:26not like uh having conditions from the

1:26:29state because you know I understand my

1:26:31neighborhood really well and um and one

1:26:34of my concerns, Mr. Chairman, to the

1:26:36director when we're receiving certain

1:26:38funds, we should still keep some some

1:26:41level of of control. Um and and here's

1:26:44what I mean by that, Mr. Chairman. uh to

1:26:46the director. We had brisk traffic

1:26:50coming down Miles Avenue and um and one

1:26:54of the things that are of concern to me

1:26:55and I want to, you know, uh preface this

1:26:58to the administration to always keep in

1:27:00mind is not killing our economy, not

1:27:03killing the economics. And when you put

1:27:06these strangle holds on the street,

1:27:09those businesses won't be successful,

1:27:11Mr. Chairman, to um the director. And

1:27:13we've seen that in a number of instances

1:27:15throughout this city. And one of my

1:27:18concerns, Mr. Chairman, is that in the

1:27:20east side of the city of Cleveland,

1:27:21we're already struggling. And so when

1:27:24you you put these situations in place,

1:27:26we we have to find some kind of way to

1:27:30to to reach the middle ground where

1:27:32there's some level of compromise. And so

1:27:35since when you cut that road down, a lot

1:27:37of the businesses along that corridor

1:27:39has suffered. And um and it's obvious

1:27:43because you can see the blight. We've

1:27:44had a number of stores closed down in

1:27:46that zone. Um we also have not have

1:27:49experienced um the same level of

1:27:52traffic, but what we have seen is that

1:27:54they're crossing over and we've had this

1:27:56conversation. They're crossing over the

1:27:58medium medium boundary because you what

1:28:01you went down to was four lanes to one

1:28:03lane each way and now you have all that

1:28:05space in the middle. And so what's

1:28:07happening is this traffic is these

1:28:09people are going around the traffic. Uh

1:28:12they're causing incidents, accidents.

1:28:14It's it's absolutely insane. Uh and we

1:28:16have a school now that's there and it

1:28:19doesn't help our situation. Um we are

1:28:21also talking about how we deal with the

1:28:23application of Lee Road. Um we don't

1:28:26want to to strangle hold our economy. I

1:28:29mean mess up the opportunity for future

1:28:32opportunities for businesses to flourish

1:28:34and grow in our communities. So if we

1:28:36kill off this pipeline, it's like you

1:28:38can you can make it akin, Mr. Chairman,

1:28:40to the director like arteries in the

1:28:42vein. And if you kill off a certain

1:28:45space, then that arm ain't going to work

1:28:47anymore. That leg is not going to

1:28:48function anymore. And so right now, we

1:28:51can't in situations where we have robust

1:28:54traffic, cut and kill that traffic in

1:28:56African-American communities. And um now

1:28:59I will say, Mr. chairman to the director

1:29:02that this is a road uh certainly that

1:29:04needs to be improved. Um but knowing

1:29:07exactly you know what that volume is

1:29:09would be significantly important and

1:29:11then you know Mr. Chairman we should

1:29:13take under consideration what will that

1:29:15economic impact be on those businesses

1:29:17because we also know Mr. determined that

1:29:19if we don't have viable, strong

1:29:21businesses in the city of Cleveland,

1:29:23then we don't have uh the resources uh

1:29:27to continue to provide services. And so

1:29:29that's another issue, Mr. Chairman, to

1:29:31the director is always protecting, you

1:29:34know, um our our resources uh that we

1:29:38already have and talk about bringing in

1:29:40new businesses. So, I just want to keep

1:29:41that as a as a marker there. Uh I would

1:29:44like to know what that traffic pattern

1:29:46is. I do travel up and down that road. I

1:29:48do know that there's a lot of traffic

1:29:50that goes back and forth. So, it would

1:29:52be cons, you know, something that we

1:29:54should look at when we make these

1:29:56decisions. You know, look at it a year,

1:29:58two years, three years, four years down

1:30:00the line and see how much traffic flow

1:30:03is now happening. And I would like to

1:30:05know that, Mr. Chairman, on Miles

1:30:06Avenue. Um, so we we started this nine

1:30:10years ago. So we do do we have a a

1:30:13traffic study that was done then and can

1:30:16we perform a traffic study now to see

1:30:18what the loss of the volume of the

1:30:19traffic is. And as we as we make these

1:30:23decisions we have to make them also

1:30:25understanding that we have to to keep

1:30:27business flowing not only for the moment

1:30:30of now but also for future generations

1:30:32who are not here sitting at this table.

1:30:34So, I encourage the administration to

1:30:36think about that when they're making

1:30:37these types of decisions in terms of of

1:30:39of encumbering us to ruse regulations

1:30:42and policies of people who do not live

1:30:44in the city of Cleveland. So, with that

1:30:46being said, Mr. Chairman, I yield the

1:30:48floor. Thank you.

1:30:50>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Jones.

1:30:51I'm going to go to Councilman Harsh.

1:30:55>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, speed bumps on

1:30:58a main road through the chair. How does

1:30:59fire and EMS feel about that?

1:31:04Okay. Uh through the chairman, the

1:31:07councilman. So, we have had

1:31:08conversations with uh public safety

1:31:11about the use of the raised crosswalks.

1:31:15Um so, I'll defer to the those that were

1:31:17in the room to speak to those uh

1:31:19discussions

1:31:21>> uh through the chair to the councilman.

1:31:23Um I know that there have been

1:31:24conversations with EMS and fire related

1:31:27to these race crossing treatments. Um I

1:31:29myself have not been in those

1:31:31conversations so I can't speak exactly

1:31:33to this project. Uh but I have been in

1:31:36general conversations uh between uh city

1:31:39staff working with EMS fire to think

1:31:40about um you know uh speed tables

1:31:43currently are in residential streets. as

1:31:45we think about whether they could be um

1:31:47you know safety treatments to use on um

1:31:50our like collector streets or streets

1:31:51that kind of go beyond just our

1:31:52residential uh we have been having close

1:31:55conversations of EMS and fire and uh my

1:31:58understanding is it really just comes

1:31:59down to a case by case basis uh whether

1:32:02it's a corridor that they are using very

1:32:04frequently for their

1:32:06>> well measure St. CLA gets used quite

1:32:08frequently.

1:32:11>> So I I'm sorry. I just I I I hear what

1:32:14you're saying and the answer is is you

1:32:15don't know. Um through the chair that

1:32:18the last communication this body got

1:32:20from EMS, I don't remember if it was the

1:32:22union or the official was that they're

1:32:23nervous about installing too many speed

1:32:25bumps because if you have somebody in

1:32:26the back of an ambulance has ribs or

1:32:28internal organ issues, you don't want to

1:32:30go up and down. You don't want to play

1:32:31bounce house in an ambulance on the way

1:32:33to the hospital. So smooth roads are

1:32:36good roads. Um it's a different issue

1:32:38for potholes, but uh you can kind of,

1:32:40you know, dodge those. Um and that was

1:32:44the last communication I got from EMS. I

1:32:46don't know if they updated any of that.

1:32:48I certainly haven't heard anything, but

1:32:50I have a massive problem in my

1:32:51neighborhood where I have 250 individual

1:32:54blocks from intersection to

1:32:55intersection. Old Brooklyn, there are

1:32:57250 blocks. And on every single one of

1:32:59those blocks is a person who wants a

1:33:01speed bump. and they want a speed bump

1:33:03for all the reasons that you can imagine

1:33:05to save children's lives, to protect

1:33:07home values, to encourage everything,

1:33:09all the good things. Uh, but we cannot

1:33:11put 250 speed bumps in on every single

1:33:14block in Old Brooklyn. Fire trucks would

1:33:16never get to a fire. Ambulances would

1:33:18never get to the hospital. It would be

1:33:20chaos. Um, and one of the things that

1:33:22I've been telling folks is that the city

1:33:24will not permit speed bumps on uh major

1:33:27thoroughares. So in old Brooklyn it's

1:33:29state it's bit off it's you know pearl

1:33:32um and here we are uh putting speed

1:33:35bumps on m thoroughares which is going

1:33:37to open up another can of worms as

1:33:38everybody asks for all the speed bumps

1:33:40up and down Pearl Road State Road Bid

1:33:42off Broadview all these are now open for

1:33:45speed bumps as well and I'm just curious

1:33:47you know how much forethought we're

1:33:48putting into this um as you know this

1:33:51new future as we jump into it seemingly

1:33:53blindly

1:33:55>> uh through the chairman of the council.

1:33:57So certainly we're not jumping into this

1:33:59blindly. Um there's a whole mobility

1:34:01team at the city of Cleveland that

1:34:03involves folks from uh city planning,

1:34:06capital projects, um public works,

1:34:08includes traffic engineering, and they

1:34:11do vet all the there there's lots of

1:34:14different treatments all around the

1:34:15world that um are possibilities for

1:34:18slowing down traffic. And those um the

1:34:22the elements that are part of this

1:34:24project were not just plunked down from

1:34:25ODOT. They are a result of a design

1:34:29process that includes all these

1:34:30different departments to determine

1:34:32what's best for our community. Um, as I

1:34:35understand it, raised crosswalks are

1:34:37different than speed bumps because it

1:34:38has the flat middle so that you're not

1:34:41um having an EMS trunk um sort of like

1:34:44popping over it and having somebody in a

1:34:47bed like you know um startled or

1:34:51whatnot. So there is a reason why this

1:34:53treatment works on larger streets and a

1:34:56speed bump would not work on a St. Clair

1:34:58or any of the variety of streets that

1:35:00you you referenced.

1:35:01>> I'm sorry. Through the chair. The

1:35:03special sidewalks is that they're

1:35:05raised, right?

1:35:06>> Uh that's correct. Uh through the

1:35:08chairman, the councilman. So if you

1:35:10think about there's um there it raises

1:35:13up, it flattens off, and then it raises

1:35:16back down versus a speed bump where you

1:35:18basically just have a hill. It still

1:35:20causes the vehicle to go up and back

1:35:21down.

1:35:22>> It sure does.

1:35:23>> That's why it slows down traffic, right?

1:35:24So, it slows down ambulances and it

1:35:26slows down fire trucks and it slows down

1:35:28garbage trucks and it slows down plows

1:35:31and any heavy equipment that has to go

1:35:32over this has to slow down quite a bit

1:35:34because, you know, axles and shocks,

1:35:36right, and wear and tear on that. So, it

1:35:38slows down bigger vehicles even more

1:35:40than it slows down the the smaller

1:35:41vehicles. And it doesn't stop the

1:35:42motorcycles at all. They just go around.

1:35:44Um or they they do in my neighborhood.

1:35:47Um, so I don't it it worries me because

1:35:51I mean look, I'm not going to object to

1:35:53taking ODOT money to fix St. Clair. I I

1:35:56understand that. But it does worry me

1:35:57that uh we're breaking another barrier

1:35:59that's going to create another round of

1:36:00problems and answering these questions

1:36:02holistically for the neighbors. Um, and

1:36:05by the way, you know, there's a guy I

1:36:07look, I'm sorry to take time. I I'll try

1:36:09to wrap this up. Chair

1:36:12>> Cook Avenue from Broad View to West 14th

1:36:14is the longest interrupted stretch of

1:36:16road in Old Brooklyn. It is like when

1:36:19you look at it on a map, there is no

1:36:20intersection between Broadview and 14th.

1:36:23It's the longest stretch except for

1:36:24Flowerdale, which is made of brick and

1:36:26is like a washboard. Nobody speeds down

1:36:28Flower. Anyway, it's so bad a lady got

1:36:31up like 80 miles an hour, rolled her

1:36:33car, and died in my neighbor's front

1:36:34yard on a straight road of of of

1:36:37residential street. And it was really

1:36:39tragic. It was very very sad. Um, so the

1:36:41city when we were repaving Cook anyway,

1:36:44we had some extra funds to put in a

1:36:45couple speed tables and we did. I got a

1:36:47call from my neighbor. I hadn't thought

1:36:49about this. His wife is in a wheelchair,

1:36:51has been for decades. They have a

1:36:52specialized van. He literally cannot get

1:36:54over these in his van without scraping

1:36:57the bottom of his van. A very expensive

1:36:58piece of equipment. And he is now penned

1:37:00in, right? He is now penned in on either

1:37:03side of his house by speed tables that

1:37:05he can't get around. he has to drive up

1:37:08over the curb or else he runs the risk

1:37:09of ripping off the bottom of his van

1:37:11which is again a wheelchair lift. I just

1:37:14I wonder how many of these scenarios

1:37:16we're not thinking through as we you

1:37:19know sort of celebrate the the the

1:37:22success of speed bumps slowing down

1:37:24vehicles on that street. And every time

1:37:25we put speed bumps in, people on the

1:37:26next street over complain because their

1:37:28their traffic goes up more, right? You

1:37:30put speed bumps on 58th and everybody on

1:37:3257th complains. You put them on Oak Park

1:37:34and everybody on Portman complains. the

1:37:36people that want to speed just find new

1:37:38routes, right? They're they're they're

1:37:39not going to slow down for the speed

1:37:40bump. They're going to figure out a new

1:37:42street to go down and and and it So, I'm

1:37:45very curious what the vision zero data

1:37:46is for streets that, you know, uh get

1:37:49installations, do the crashes on

1:37:51neighboring streets go up as a result? I

1:37:52would assume that they do. Um the

1:37:54problem here is human behavior. Uh and

1:37:56and we're not ticketing people, so we're

1:37:58not trying to address that. And putting

1:38:00them on, look, I'm going to I'm going to

1:38:02support this, but I'm just going to

1:38:03support this with a with a caution flag.

1:38:05I I'm really worried that I'm going to

1:38:06start getting endless calls about speed

1:38:08bumps on every single main street in in

1:38:10old Brooklyn and in the city of

1:38:11Cleveland. And I don't know where we go

1:38:13with that. I don't I don't know where it

1:38:14ends or or where we decide that we've

1:38:15done what we can and we need to actually

1:38:17start ticketing people for their for

1:38:19their indiscretions.

1:38:20Mr. Chair, that's all I have to say on

1:38:22my soap box. Thank you for indulging me.

1:38:25Uh I do have an amendment when you're

1:38:26ready for it.

1:38:27>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Harris.

1:38:29I'm go to Councilman Slife.

1:38:31>> Uh thank you. Uh I'm not on the

1:38:33committee so I'll keep it very brief but

1:38:35I I know this is being referred to the

1:38:37transportation committee. So something I

1:38:39would like to get a deeper sense of

1:38:41between kind of now and if you're able

1:38:43to bring it to transportation. So the

1:38:46reason there's speeding on Cleveland

1:38:48streets is cuz our streets were built

1:38:50for a million people prior to the

1:38:51interstate era. Right. So like Lraine

1:38:53Avenue

1:38:55you feel like you're supposed to go 50

1:38:56even though it's 25. And I think you

1:38:58know St. Clair was the only way to get

1:39:00to Lake County prior to I90. So now

1:39:03we're having to deal with wide roads and

1:39:04very little traffic. in in my kind of my

1:39:09anecdotal experience is that

1:39:13sometimes when we try to improve safety

1:39:16by like like I see people running red

1:39:19lights all the time on public square

1:39:22because it's oversalized and you got to

1:39:25wait for the bus lane and then the this

1:39:26lane and people are just like ah I'm

1:39:27going to go you know and and what I've

1:39:30noticed with some of our road diets is

1:39:34there's so little traffic that people

1:39:36just do what they want anyway. So,

1:39:38they're like speeding like it what used

1:39:40to be a four-lane road, but now is a one

1:39:42lane road in each direction with the

1:39:43turning lane. Like people pass on Rocky

1:39:46River Drive in the turning lane. They

1:39:48don't care. And and they don't they're

1:39:50they're people who are going to go 80 m

1:39:52hour to 25 I don't think care that a

1:39:55piece of paint now wants them to do

1:39:57something else. And I've even seen

1:39:58people driving in the bike lane. So, so

1:40:00I guess I want to understand

1:40:03is there any and and as someone who is

1:40:06very pro- road diet, speedts, all of

1:40:09this stuff, I want to understand if

1:40:11there's ways that we could almost create

1:40:14more unintended consequences by trying

1:40:17to resolve the issue and how are we

1:40:19checking against that because we just

1:40:21don't have the volume of traffic on our

1:40:23streets that other cities have and and

1:40:25that allows people to drive erratically.

1:40:28Um, so if you if I I I I think the the

1:40:31comment is clear, but I'd like to be

1:40:33able to discuss more with the

1:40:34transportation committee like how can

1:40:36some of these measures almost backfire

1:40:38on us and what are we doing to cut

1:40:40against that?

1:40:43>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Life.

1:40:45Is there any other questions on uh I'm

1:40:47going to go back to Councilwoman Hut.

1:40:51>> Thank you.

1:40:53>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a

1:40:55quick followup. um through the chair is

1:40:58is an effort being made to um you know

1:41:02as my colleagues pointed out to direct

1:41:04vehicles along certain routes so that

1:41:07certain routes in the city um emergency

1:41:10vehicles can use and you know are would

1:41:13retain the ability to um carry higher

1:41:17traffic volumes and direct them away

1:41:19from other streets

1:41:25>> uh through the chairman of the council

1:41:26woman. So there are um recommendation in

1:41:30the Cleveland Moves plan with regard to

1:41:33where to um create um low stress bike

1:41:37facilities versus where to um keep

1:41:41vehicles only. If you think about

1:41:43Carnegie Avenue, which is under

1:41:44construction right now, we're not adding

1:41:46bike lanes on Carnegie Avenue because

1:41:49there's for instance Uklid Avenue, a

1:41:51parallel lane, low stress that gives you

1:41:53service east west. So we we we are

1:41:57following recommendations of Cleveland

1:42:00Moves as far as where the bike

1:42:02facilities are intended in in having um

1:42:06bikers directed to those um roadways.

1:42:10>> Okay. Thank you. and through the chair.

1:42:11Then these trafficcoming elements are

1:42:14being um directed to um corridors that

1:42:18are, you know, meant for

1:42:21bicycles and pedestrians as opposed to

1:42:24vehicular traffic. um through the

1:42:27chairman of the councilwoman. Yes. But

1:42:28it's not a perfect situation that we

1:42:30have right now because we have certain

1:42:33um longer term plans that um there may

1:42:36be gaps in um a particular bike facility

1:42:40that um we hope to fill with a future

1:42:42project. So it's certainly not perfect.

1:42:44I think that all cities around the world

1:42:46are it's it's an iterative process. you

1:42:48you put in a certain treatment and you

1:42:50find that it works or it doesn't work

1:42:52and you either make enhancements or you

1:42:54decide, you know what, it it it's really

1:42:56better to direct folks, you know, one

1:42:58block away onto that street. Um, but we

1:43:02do work interdep departmentally. Just to

1:43:04emphasize that again, it's um traffic

1:43:07engineering, it's city planning, it's

1:43:09capital projects, and and um when we go

1:43:12to transportation committee uh with

1:43:14Councilman's Life, we're happy to bring

1:43:15some of those folks to talk about the

1:43:17the science and the the strategy behind

1:43:20this because it it really is a um it

1:43:24it's a it's a different analysis for

1:43:26each street. It's not a

1:43:27one-sizefits-all. Every street doesn't

1:43:29get the same treatment.

1:43:31>> No, thank you. I mean and it's it is

1:43:33important to think about um you know

1:43:35where safety vehicles you know could

1:43:38reach different places you know the most

1:43:41quickly and effectively and then

1:43:43likewise um have certain corridors you

1:43:46know we have a lot of parallel streets

1:43:47in Cleveland um two-way traffic and so

1:43:52um you know as a cyclist if you're

1:43:54familiar with the city then you know

1:43:55which streets to take and which streets

1:43:57not to take and I'm assuming also that

1:44:00uh safety department would also So, um,

1:44:02know full well which streets to take and

1:44:05which streets not to take.

1:44:08That's all.

1:44:10>> All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. All

1:44:12right. Any other questions on 1174 2026?

1:44:16>> Uh, Councilman Harsh.

1:44:17>> Thank the following amendment in section

1:44:2012 line 8 after road and bridges bonds

1:44:24insert a period and then strike and

1:44:26future road and bridge bonds that

1:44:27include this purpose.

1:44:30>> Okay. All right. Councilman Harsh has a

1:44:33amendment on the floor. Is there a

1:44:34second?

1:44:36>> Second.

1:44:37>> Councilman Casey seconds it.

1:44:40Um, is there any discussion?

1:44:44Director.

1:44:46>> I'm fine.

1:44:48>> All right. Is there any other

1:44:50discussion? All right. All in favor of

1:44:52the amendment say I.

1:44:54>> I. All opposed. The eyes have it. The

1:44:57amendment carries. Okay. Ordinance

1:45:00number 1174 20226 as amended is

1:45:04approved. Please sign it.

1:45:08All right. Director. Uh we're going to

1:45:10move to the next piece. Ordinance number

1:45:121169

1:45:142026 by council members house Jones

1:45:16Bishop Slife and Griffin. Departmental

1:45:19request emergency ordinance giving

1:45:20consent of the city of Cleveland to the

1:45:23director of transportation of the state

1:45:24of Ohio to resurface Stokes Boulevard

1:45:27from Martin Luther King Jr. drive to

1:45:29Chester Avenue authorizing agreements

1:45:32and causing payment to the state for the

1:45:35sh city share of the improvement. Okay,

1:45:38director.

1:45:39>> So, Mr. Chairman, this again is consent

1:45:41legislation to allow ODOT to make

1:45:44improvements in city rightway and this

1:45:46is for Stokesville Boulevard between

1:45:49Martin Luther King Jr. Drive to Chester

1:45:52Avenue.

1:45:53Um Rick's going to go through the

1:45:55PowerPoint. I'll do the slides for you,

1:45:57Rick.

1:46:01Thank you. Um as you see on the map with

1:46:03for this project Stokes Chester to MLK

1:46:06about 1.1 miles to go to the next slide

1:46:10please. Uh the entire roadway will be

1:46:13resurfaced full and partial base repairs

1:46:15complete asphalt resurfacing as I

1:46:17mentioned. New sidewalk curbs and ramps

1:46:20where they're needed utility casting

1:46:22adjustments. pavement markings two uh

1:46:25two two direction bike facility on the

1:46:27east side of the roadway from Chester to

1:46:29Amler Park where at that point at Amler

1:46:32Park it connects to the Harrison Dillard

1:46:34bikeway.

1:46:36Next slide please.

1:46:39The existing traffic pattern is one way

1:46:41southbound from Chester Avenue to MLK

1:46:43Drive four lanes. The road diet reducing

1:46:46the number of lanes from four to two

1:46:48with turn lanes at each intersection. Uh

1:46:51it's up to Chester to Amler with the

1:46:53two-way bike way also at in those

1:46:56limits. After construction, two-way

1:46:58traffic will be implemented between

1:47:00Chester and Uclid Avenues. Post

1:47:02construction, three southbound lanes

1:47:04from Amler Park to MLK Junior Drive.

1:47:10Construction costs $4.7 million total.

1:47:133.8 million from Noaka STPG funding and

1:47:170.9 million in local bonds.

1:47:20The advertising estimated advertising

1:47:22for bids is April 2027, construction May

1:47:262027, and construction July 28.

1:47:30Thank you.

1:47:33All right. Um, I'm going to open it up

1:47:35for questions on ordinance number 1169,

1:47:372026.

1:47:41No questions on ordinance 1169.

1:47:43Councilwoman Hudson.

1:47:44>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um through the

1:47:46chair I see that there's a you two two

1:47:48direction bike facility. What separates

1:47:51that from the rest of the road?

1:47:55>> Uh through the chair that did a council

1:47:56woman uh similar to the Sinclair

1:47:58project. This would be a a buffered

1:48:00striped lane with vertical delineator

1:48:02post.

1:48:02>> Okay. And again um

1:48:05is this the first two direction um

1:48:09bikeway in the city

1:48:11>> through the chair? I believe so.

1:48:16Pay Avenue is parking protected but it's

1:48:19one lane in each direction. So yes, I

1:48:20believe this would be the first um like

1:48:22birectional bike lane in the city.

1:48:24>> Okay. And again, have you explored using

1:48:26another material besides vertical

1:48:29delineators?

1:48:32>> Uh through the chair, not to my

1:48:34knowledge for this project.

1:48:35>> Is it cost prohibitive?

1:48:36>> Um through the chairman and

1:48:37councilwoman. So there are certain

1:48:39projects where we're considering um

1:48:41concrete um separations, but um all it

1:48:46it's just not feasible to do concrete uh

1:48:48separations

1:48:50all around the city for a couple

1:48:52reasons. Financially, it's a lot more

1:48:54expensive. And number two, it's costly

1:48:57to change our mind later if we figure

1:49:00out that it is having negative impacts

1:49:03on traffic.

1:49:04>> Okay.

1:49:05>> Utilities, too.

1:49:06>> Yeah.

1:49:08So through sorry there's also when you

1:49:11start putting concrete in a roadway you

1:49:14see about six inches of it below another

1:49:1612 in. So I always have to be worried

1:49:18about utilities in the roadway too where

1:49:20with the lineators there really is no uh

1:49:22cause for concern with utilities.

1:49:24>> Okay. Do we have any through the chair?

1:49:26Do we have any um data on um you know

1:49:30the effectiveness of delineators as the

1:49:33the mechanism of separation?

1:49:36>> Uh through the chairman of the council

1:49:37woman, we can provide that for you.

1:49:39There's a lot of white papers that are

1:49:42um published on different um uh traffic

1:49:46calming or protection elements and the

1:49:48the um success rates for those. So we

1:49:51can provide you with some of that

1:49:52detail.

1:49:53>> Okay. Thank you. That's all.

1:49:55>> All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Any

1:49:56other questions on ordinance uh 1169?

1:50:01>> Uh, Councilman Harsh.

1:50:03>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, same as the

1:50:05last few in section 12, line 8 after

1:50:09road and bridges bonds, insert a period,

1:50:12and then strike and future road and

1:50:14bridge bonds that include this purpose.

1:50:16>> All right. Councilman Harsh has an

1:50:17amendment on the floor. Is there a

1:50:19second?

1:50:21>> Councilman Kazy seconds. Is there any

1:50:23discussion? Director, you want to

1:50:25comment on it, y'all? Okay. Um,

1:50:28those in favor of the U amendment say I.

1:50:32>> I. Those opposed? The eyes have it.

1:50:36Ordinance number 1169206

1:50:39is approved as amended. Please sign it.

1:50:42>> I have a question before I move on.

1:50:43>> All right. Uh, Councilman Casey.

1:50:45>> Um, Mr. Mr. Chairman, to the director,

1:50:46those pieces of legislation that we just

1:50:48heard, were those asks of the city or

1:50:52was this ODAK coming to the city saying

1:50:54we'd like to do these?

1:50:55>> Uh, so two two of these were are city

1:51:01projects that we applied for funding

1:51:03through Noaka for so that would be

1:51:05Stokes and Wade Park.

1:51:07>> So the the safety improvement on St.

1:51:10Clair, it was kind of a joint project

1:51:12with us and ODOT. They offered us the

1:51:14funds, but this is from east city limits

1:51:18all the way to 55th Street. Is it a

1:51:20priority for the city to re resurface

1:51:22clear? Thank you.

1:51:23>> Yes.

1:51:23>> All right. Ordinance number 1168 2026.

1:51:27That's is by council member Slife,

1:51:29Bishop Griffin by departmental request.

1:51:32an emergency ordinance giving consent of

1:51:34the city of Cleveland to the director of

1:51:36transportation of the state of Ohio to

1:51:38replace the deck of the Warren Road

1:51:41bridge over uh IR90

1:51:45and authorizing agreements. All right,

1:51:48director. Um Mr. Chairman, so this again

1:51:53is consent legislation to allow ODOT to

1:51:55make improvements of on in city

1:51:58roadways. The difference here and to

1:52:00Councilman Kazy's previous question is

1:52:02that ODOT came to us to say we have

1:52:05identified a need in your system. We're

1:52:08going to pay for all of these

1:52:09improvements. We need your permission to

1:52:11move forward with the project. Um so

1:52:14we'll go through the funding, but this

1:52:15is 100% ODOT funded to replace the deck

1:52:19on Warren Road Bridge.

1:52:23Uh thank you. You can see the bridge in

1:52:25the green little vertical stripe there

1:52:27about middle lower part of the middle

1:52:29portion of the map over there. It is the

1:52:32bridge does belong to ODOT and it's

1:52:34their responsibility to do the major

1:52:35repairs. That's why they proposed this

1:52:37work to be done. The improvements will

1:52:39Next one please.

1:52:40>> Mhm.

1:52:41>> The improvements will replace the deck

1:52:43on Warren Road bridge over IR90.

1:52:46Warren Road northbound will keep two

1:52:48lanes of traffic open. Warren Road

1:52:50southbound be tooured to uh

1:52:54Alga Road, Alger Road. Uh funding for

1:52:58this construction is about 7.115

1:53:01million. Schedule is October 27th to

1:53:04sell it, start construction in April of

1:53:0628 and end construction in October of

1:53:0929.

1:53:12Any questions?

1:53:13>> All right. So, director, to reiterate,

1:53:15no dollars from the city is uh the city

1:53:18doesn't have to cough up any dough,

1:53:19right?

1:53:20>> That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

1:53:21>> All right. I'm going to open up to the

1:53:23committee. Uh Councilman Kazy.

1:53:25>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,

1:53:26to the commissioner, when you say deck,

1:53:28do you mean the bridge?

1:53:30>> The actual bridge to the actual bridge

1:53:32itself.

1:53:32>> Yes. The the whole deck on top of the

1:53:34superructure that replaced

1:53:36>> and in this project, I90 has been a

1:53:39wreck, right? um for the last year, year

1:53:44and a half. Um and we're we're treading

1:53:47through it. Correct.

1:53:50This is project isn't going to happen

1:53:52until 2028 2029. It will not affect um

1:53:59the traffic along 90 because we can see

1:54:01the light at the end of the tunnel

1:54:03>> on 90. This exit 140th is closed now. uh

1:54:09you know, West Boulevard is closed and

1:54:11if you have traveled 90 from the west,

1:54:15it's almost like a jigsaw puzzle trying

1:54:17to get through it, right? Talk about

1:54:19needing traffic calming. Um and will

1:54:22this because hopefully 90 will be done

1:54:25by I think it was April of 2028, right?

1:54:29And that all those entrance and exit

1:54:32ramps will be open by then. This will

1:54:34not affect the traffic flow along 90,

1:54:37will it?

1:54:38No. Uh to the chair, to the councilman.

1:54:40Uh I live in North Rton and the Wallings

1:54:43Road bridge was replaced in a similar

1:54:45manner. There's basically no impact to

1:54:47the traffic on 77.

1:54:48>> Okay. And then a year and a half.

1:54:52>> Yes, sir.

1:54:52>> To do this. Is Is that about right?

1:54:54>> Um they're the experts at putting the

1:54:56bridges together. If they want that, I

1:54:58think they're they they know what they

1:54:59need.

1:54:59>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

1:55:01>> All right. Uh this is in Councilman

1:55:03Slice Ward. Councilman Slay,

1:55:06>> I'm not looking forward to it, but it

1:55:08needs to be done.

1:55:10>> Okay. All right. Is there any other

1:55:12questions on ordinance 1168 2026?

1:55:16Is there any objections to ordinance

1:55:18number 1168 2026?

1:55:22No objections.

1:55:31Okay. All right. Seeing no further

1:55:33questions, ordinance number 1168 2026 is

1:55:37approved. Please sign it.

1:55:40All right. Ordinance number

1:55:43uh 1167 2026 by council member Slife

1:55:47Bishop Griffin by departmental request

1:55:49an emergency ordinance giving consent of

1:55:51the city of Cleveland to the director of

1:55:53transportation of the state of Ohio to

1:55:55repair and reconstruct three ramps along

1:55:58I interstate route 480 aton road and

1:56:03west 150th and authorizing agreements.

1:56:07All right, director.

1:56:08>> Uh Mr. Mr. Chairman, so this is very

1:56:11similar to the ordinance that we just

1:56:13heard wherein ODOC came to us. They saw

1:56:16a need in in our system um for roadway

1:56:20work that is under their uh

1:56:22responsibility and they'll be funding

1:56:25this project 100% with ODOT funds. They

1:56:27need consent to do the improvements in

1:56:29the city of Cleveland. And uh we'll go

1:56:32through the PowerPoint here and answer

1:56:34questions.

1:56:36>> Thank you. Once again, uh, on this map,

1:56:38we can see the locations of the three,

1:56:40um, ramp areas that'll be repaired. Left

1:56:43to right is the one at Greatton Road,

1:56:45which is in Ward 15. In the center is

1:56:47West 150th and Ward 13. Then on West

1:56:51139th Street, which is in Brook Park

1:56:53Road. And this this ramp project is

1:56:57actually a continuation. They did the

1:56:58Ridge Road ramps not too long ago, so

1:57:00they're just progressing with other

1:57:01ramps that need to be done. The ramp uh

1:57:04pro improvements include repair or

1:57:07reconstruction of the five along I480.

1:57:10City of Cleveland has three ramps. The

1:57:12westbound ramps at Greatton Road, the

1:57:14westbound off-ramp at West 150th, and in

1:57:17the city of Brook Park, two ramps at

1:57:19West 139th Street. ramp traffic will be

1:57:22maintained at all times except for

1:57:24separate 30-day closures for each of

1:57:26them when they have to get some very uh

1:57:29difficult work done and they can't have

1:57:31traffic uh on the roadway.

1:57:34This funding is construction cost of 3.7

1:57:37million all by the state estimated adver

1:57:39advertising date March 2027

1:57:42construction start April 2027 and

1:57:45construction completion in October 2028

1:57:49>> all right thank you Mr. Swattowski. All

1:57:52right. Um, director, any other comments?

1:57:54>> Um,

1:57:56no other comments.

1:57:57>> All right. This is in Councilman Kazy's

1:57:59ward. Councilman Kazy.

1:58:01>> Well, it's Councilman Slife and myself,

1:58:03but one of one of these is a

1:58:05>> Mr. Chairman, to the director, you

1:58:06indicated that ODAK came to us and said

1:58:08that there was a need to reconstruct

1:58:10these. I'm going to specifically talk

1:58:12about the West 150th Street One since

1:58:16it's in my ward and I don't want to

1:58:17overstep on any other council member. So

1:58:19what exactly is that need from ODOT?

1:58:22>> Um through the chairman the councilman.

1:58:24So why do they need to reconstruct the

1:58:25ramps?

1:58:26>> So it says it says here repair or

1:58:29reconstruct.

1:58:30>> Mhm.

1:58:30>> So if there if ODAC came to us, I'd like

1:58:34to know what the repair is

1:58:36>> and or the reconstruct. Is it a repair

1:58:38or is it a reconstruct?

1:58:40>> Uh do you have to share it to the

1:58:43council? We'll get you that information

1:58:45quickly.

1:58:48So, Mr. Chairman, to the director, we

1:58:51don't even know what it is that ODOT

1:58:53wants to do at that specific exit ramp

1:58:57right now.

1:58:57>> Uh, through the chairman of the

1:58:58councilman. So, we have emails, we have

1:59:00documentation, but it it I don't have it

1:59:03and it appears that Rick doesn't have it

1:59:04with us.

1:59:09>> Mr. chairman to to to the director.

1:59:12I really wish that that information

1:59:14would have been readily available. We

1:59:17knew the St. Clair corridor. We knew

1:59:19exactly what was happening there, right?

1:59:21>> Um and then I this one here,

1:59:26we have no idea. We just want to give

1:59:28ODOT permission to just come in and do

1:59:30exactly what it is that they're that

1:59:32they're doing, right? Or they or they

1:59:35want to do.

1:59:36>> Correct. And I have some issues with

1:59:38some of the wording in in the

1:59:40legislation.

1:59:41Um

1:59:43particularly

1:59:45section 3 line seven where it says the

1:59:47city further agrees to pay 100% of the

1:59:49costs of those uh features requested by

1:59:52the city which are determined by the

1:59:54state and federal highway administration

1:59:56to be ineligible or unnecessary for the

1:59:59improvement.

2:00:00>> Do we know what those are?

2:00:02>> Uh through the chairman of the

2:00:03councilman. We have no special requests

2:00:05for this project. If for instance,

2:00:07somebody wanted to have a welcome to

2:00:09Cleveland sign at the on-ramp, that

2:00:11would be something that ODOT would say,

2:00:13sure, we'll build it for you, but you

2:00:15have to provide the funding for it. In

2:00:18section four, paragraph two, it says,

2:00:22"Upon request to vote out, the director

2:00:23of capital projects is also empowered to

2:00:26execute any appropriate documents to

2:00:28affect the assignments of all rights,

2:00:31title, and interests of the city to ODOT

2:00:34arising from any agreement with its

2:00:37consultant in order to allow ODOT to

2:00:39direct additional or corrective work,

2:00:41recover damages due to errors or

2:00:43emissions, and to exercise all other

2:00:46contractual rights and remedies is

2:00:47afforded by law to the equity. Um,

2:00:52who is the consultant in that paragraph?

2:00:56>> So, this is um typical language for ODOT

2:00:59and I'm going to have uh Mr. Suttowski

2:01:02um elaborate

2:01:04>> to the through the chair to the

2:01:05councilman. Again, this is boilerplate

2:01:07language that is in the consent

2:01:09legislation that we have in all of our

2:01:11ODOT uh contracts. It basically gives

2:01:14ODOT the ability to run the project

2:01:16exclusively. The city really does not

2:01:19have any decision-m powers in the in the

2:01:22execution or the construction of the

2:01:24work as ODOT is doing it entirely. They

2:01:27can even at the point chase the designer

2:01:29if there's problems for errors and

2:01:31emissions.

2:01:34So the consultant is who

2:01:42>> uh I'm sorry I didn't catch that part to

2:01:45the chair to the councilman. The

2:01:46consultant is ODOT's consultant that

2:01:48they would then use and we Mr. Chairman

2:01:50to the to the director

2:01:53[laughter]

2:01:53>> whatever your title is Rick. Um we don't

2:01:55know who that consultant is correct.

2:01:57>> No sir.

2:01:57>> All right. Under section five it says

2:02:00utility costs right. Um, the city agrees

2:02:04that all utility accommodation,

2:02:06relocation, and reimbursement will

2:02:08comply with the current provisions of 23

2:02:11CFR 645 in the ODOT utilities manual. Do

2:02:14we know what that is? I've never

2:02:16personally read the ODOT utilities

2:02:18manual

2:02:19>> to to the chair to the councilman. Um,

2:02:21for any project that ODOT does, the

2:02:23local municipality is responsible for

2:02:25any utility relocation

2:02:27>> and [clears throat] that it is done in

2:02:29accordance with ODOT's utility manual.

2:02:31We do all all our work with ODOT is in

2:02:33concordance with their manuals like the

2:02:34L & D and anything else that they use

2:02:37for their design process. All right. And

2:02:39then I have a whole issue with all of

2:02:42section 7 which just uh gives the

2:02:45director of capital projects

2:02:48the right to just about do anything in

2:02:50regards to this project. But Mr.

2:02:52Chairman to the director, let me let me

2:02:54ask you this. The city of Cleveland did

2:02:57not approach ODOT in regards to

2:03:01this this project. Correct. ODOT ODOT

2:03:04came to us

2:03:05>> through the chairman [clears throat] of

2:03:06the councilman. That's correct. ODOT

2:03:07came to us

2:03:08>> and currently we do not know of any

2:03:12issues with the traffic, excuse me,

2:03:14[clears throat] with the traffic pattern

2:03:15at West 150th in Brook Park right there.

2:03:19Um either the on or the the entrance or

2:03:22the exit ramp right there. Do we

2:03:25>> uh through the chairman of the

2:03:26councilman? I'm not sure that this

2:03:27relates to the traffic pattern. It might

2:03:29relate to the condition of the ramp.

2:03:31>> Right. But I mean I we ODOT has not come

2:03:33to us and said look this this is falling

2:03:36apart. We want to revamp it or

2:03:38reconstruct it. Correct. Because we

2:03:39don't you don't admittedly you don't

2:03:41know what they're going to do there.

2:03:43>> That's what this legislation does. It

2:03:45allows them to which I know we're not

2:03:47specifying whether it's a repair or

2:03:49reconstruct but this is how they

2:03:51identified the problem and came to us

2:03:53with a solution.

2:03:54>> Okay. But

2:03:56>> in advance

2:03:56>> so ODOT came to us with the problem

2:03:58correct?

2:03:59>> Yes.

2:03:59>> What is that problem?

2:04:01>> Uh I think that's what I was trying to

2:04:04get at. What what's the problem here of

2:04:06why we have to do this?

2:04:07>> So um is it field conditions?

2:04:10through to the chair, through the

2:04:12council member. ODOT has done their

2:04:14analysis of the condition rating of

2:04:16these ramps and as they've done it along

2:04:18480 in the past, they have a program

2:04:21going where developing the uh

2:04:23reconstructing or uh repairing the ramps

2:04:27basically going to the west. So this is

2:04:29a continuation of that. So it's B as we

2:04:31do anything looking at pavement

2:04:32condition ratings or other ratings as to

2:04:34the structural capability of that

2:04:36roadway or that ramp. you make a

2:04:38decision of what you want to do. You may

2:04:39not want that ramp to go so so bad that

2:04:42you totally have to reconstruct it. You

2:04:43can catch it in the repair mode, which

2:04:45they're trying to do also.

2:04:46>> Well, Mr. Chairman, to to Rick, that's

2:04:48that's hypothetical speaking and what

2:04:51has been done in the past, but I'm

2:04:52talking specifically for this project,

2:04:54right? I I believe that ODOT would have

2:04:56to come to us and say, "Hey, look, like

2:04:58they did with the I90 bridge, this needs

2:05:00to be replaced." They can't just come in

2:05:02here and say, "Hey, listen. We we just

2:05:04we just want to do this because we all

2:05:06know what this is about. Correct. And

2:05:08I'm not supportive of this this project.

2:05:11100% not supportive whatsoever. There is

2:05:14nothing wrong with that exit ramp. We

2:05:16know why they want to reconstruct it. We

2:05:18know why they want to revamp it. And I

2:05:20have no want, need, or desire to be any

2:05:23part of helping the entities that really

2:05:26want this project done.

2:05:30And that's the bottom line, right? I

2:05:32understand that this went in front of

2:05:34NOWKA as well. I do not believe the

2:05:37traffic studies that came out of NAKa. I

2:05:40do not believe the traffic studies that

2:05:42have been provided by the entity that

2:05:45wants this project completed.

2:05:48I do not believe that if it wasn't for

2:05:52something occurring in a different city

2:05:54that they would be coming to the city of

2:05:56Cleveland saying, "Hey, listen. We

2:05:58really want to redo one of your exits. I

2:06:01have no want desire to be a part of it.

2:06:04And Mr. Chairman, this is not going to

2:06:05be without objection because uh this is

2:06:08in my ward and uh I I need to do what's

2:06:12best for me. I've I've I've kept a

2:06:13stance on this project from day one and

2:06:16I'm not going to cater just because the

2:06:18state wants to come in and say, "Hey,

2:06:20we're going to give you however many

2:06:23millions to redo an exit that doesn't

2:06:26need to be redone so that uh so that it

2:06:29could better accommodate something from

2:06:31from to another city." Um I don't know

2:06:34if I need to be any clearer uh with

2:06:37this. We all know what this is about.

2:06:39This is about Hasslam Sports Group down

2:06:42in Columbus paying the state off in

2:06:44order to to reconstruct um a number of

2:06:48projects in the city of Cleveland. And I

2:06:50have no desire. There's nothing wrong

2:06:51with this entrance and exit ramp right

2:06:53now. Currently, nothing. And I don't

2:06:55think we need to be wasting $3 million

2:06:59to accommodate 10 days 10 days a year

2:07:01because somebody wants to to to move

2:07:04something or move people quicker through

2:07:06through the city of Cleveland. That's

2:07:08where I stand on this one, Mr. Chairman.

2:07:09It will not be without objection, and I

2:07:11am not in favor. I don't want to speak

2:07:13for the projects in anybody else's ward,

2:07:15but I am not going to be in favor of of

2:07:18this. And director, Mr. Chairman, to the

2:07:20director, we've had a number of

2:07:21conversations with this. Does not come

2:07:23as a surprise to you. I was very vocal

2:07:26over at Noaka um when when this was

2:07:29discussed over there. I was not in favor

2:07:31of over there

2:07:33>> and and I'm not going to be in favor of

2:07:35it here. And this is the only

2:07:36opportunity that the city of Cleveland

2:07:39has

2:07:40to actually say no, right, to something.

2:07:43Uh, and I understand that the

2:07:45administration has done their due

2:07:47diligence in the past and they're okay

2:07:49with this project moving to Brook Park,

2:07:50but I don't want to be supportive of it

2:07:53in any way, shape, or form. And

2:07:55therefore, I I take my stance and this

2:07:56will not be without objection, Mr.

2:07:58Chairman. Thank you.

2:07:59>> All right. Thank Councilman Kazy. Uh,

2:08:01director, will does this mean that um

2:08:05the state of Ohio can um erect any kind

2:08:09of signage or any kind of verbiage on

2:08:12these ramps or on this stretch that they

2:08:15want to without the city's consent?

2:08:17>> Uh, not through to the chairman, not to

2:08:20my knowledge. We would have review of

2:08:23all their plans. Um, and as far as I

2:08:26know, there's been no indication that

2:08:28there's any signage included in this.

2:08:31>> Are you aware? Yeah.

2:08:32>> So, they will have to come back to the

2:08:34city if they want to put up a a sign.

2:08:37Say for instance, you know, they want to

2:08:39put up a sign saying, "Okay, this is the

2:08:42staging area for, you know, whatever

2:08:45like the staging area for

2:08:47this exit." So, they would have would

2:08:49they have to come back to us for that

2:08:51>> through the chairman of the councilman?

2:08:53So, if it's a if it's a sign on the

2:08:55freeway,

2:08:57they don't get permission from us to put

2:08:59directional signage or speed signs up on

2:09:01a on a freeway. If it's decorative

2:09:04signage at the on-ramp that isn't

2:09:06related to

2:09:08um typical roadway purposes, then they

2:09:12would have to come to us.

2:09:14>> They would have to come. if it's

2:09:15something decorative, but if it's just a

2:09:17a a sign that says that um you know

2:09:20there's a gas station at this exit, they

2:09:22don't they don't come to us for that

2:09:23permission.

2:09:25>> Okay. All right. Is there any questions

2:09:28um on this? Uh Councilman Slife, this is

2:09:30part of your award.

2:09:32>> I I have nothing to add.

2:09:33>> I'm coming.

2:09:35>> Pardon me.

2:09:37>> Okay. All right. I'm go to Councilman

2:09:38Star.

2:09:41No, my question is um if this is taking

2:09:44place in Councilman Kay's ward and he's

2:09:47not in support of it, why are we

2:09:48bringing it to committee? That would

2:09:50just be my question.

2:09:55>> Okay. So, um from that standpoint, it's

2:09:58hard for me to support. So, is this

2:10:00mainly majority and is it is it split

2:10:02between um two ws through the chair and

2:10:05which are those again

2:10:08>> through the chairman like council man?

2:10:09So, it's W 15 and W 13. So, if you if

2:10:13you look at the map here, uh the one on

2:10:16the far left is W 15 and the one in the

2:10:19middle is W 13, which is the 150th

2:10:23um that Council K Councilman Kazy spoke

2:10:25of.

2:10:28>> All right. Um I just want to make sure I

2:10:29understand the context. I definitely

2:10:32want to talk to my colleagues for the

2:10:33support when it comes to a vote.

2:10:35>> So, what exit is in war 15?

2:10:38So, uh, this this slide here shows that

2:10:42there's two ramps at W 15. So, ODOT's

2:10:46bid package is going to have five ramps

2:10:49total,

2:10:49>> right?

2:10:50>> There'll be um three in the city of

2:10:52Cleveland, two in Brook Park. Of the

2:10:55three that are in the city of Cleveland,

2:10:57two are Ward 15 which are at Greatton

2:11:01Road and one it's just the offramp at 15

2:11:0550th Street which would be W 13. So of

2:11:08the five ramps, one is related to

2:11:11Councilman Casey's ward.

2:11:12>> Okay. All right. There any other

2:11:14questions on ordinance or Councilman

2:11:17Harsh?

2:11:21>> Thank you, Chair. Um yeah, and I mean I

2:11:23I I understand that council members

2:11:24don't have individual veto power when it

2:11:26comes to bringing an ordinance to the

2:11:27table, but I do take the councilman's uh

2:11:29objections very seriously and thinking

2:11:31about this. Um through the chair, to the

2:11:34director, is there any chance that these

2:11:35projects could widen or expand the

2:11:38vehicle capacity for these ramps?

2:11:42>> To the chair, the councilman. It's just

2:11:45replacing what's there. But through the

2:11:47chair, there is language in here that

2:11:48allows the uh there's language in here

2:11:50that seems to indicate that they could

2:11:52actually change the actual footprint of

2:11:54the ramp if they wanted to say add an

2:11:56extra lane to it or something.

2:12:00>> Uh through the chairman, the councilman.

2:12:02So, um

2:12:05I don't I don't know. We could ask ODOT

2:12:06if they intend to widen the ramps. I'm

2:12:09not aware of them, but could they?

2:12:11Probably. it's ODOT uh responsibility to

2:12:14provide proper egress and you know eress

2:12:17and ingress off of the freeways,

2:12:19>> right? So so part of what I'm trying to

2:12:20get at is if ODOT decides that they want

2:12:22to add capacity to these ramps by

2:12:24expanding them or widening them. Um and

2:12:26this legislation seems to be that we're

2:12:28giving up the ability to say no to that.

2:12:31uh we're authorizing the department your

2:12:34department to enter into agreements with

2:12:35them that could potentially expand the

2:12:38the shape and size of these ramps

2:12:40>> uh through the chairman. That's that's

2:12:42correct. Typically highway projects is

2:12:44at the purview of ODOT.

2:12:45>> Yeah. Right. Right. So uh that's a bit

2:12:48of a concern of mine because it plays

2:12:49into the same thing that Councilman

2:12:50Casey was asking about um with you know

2:12:53exercise all other contractual rights

2:12:55and remedies afforded by law or equity.

2:12:57Uh which is like just shockingly vague

2:12:59language, right? It's just kind of in

2:13:00there to sort of it's a CYA language

2:13:03that you just throw into things and and

2:13:05make sure that you know whatever

2:13:06decisions you make later on down the

2:13:07line were already approved in the past

2:13:09through very vague language. Uh it is a

2:13:11a reason for concern. I'm glad the

2:13:13councilman brought it up because um you

2:13:15know I I might come around to proposing

2:13:17that we just strike that that paragraph.

2:13:18I'm not sure what we're trying to

2:13:20accomplish there. But to my other

2:13:23question, um, in section three, uh, and

2:13:29and and council McKay, you also brought

2:13:31this one up. So when it says the city

2:13:34further agrees to pay 100% of the cost

2:13:36of these features requested by the city,

2:13:38which are determined by the state and

2:13:40federal highway administration to be

2:13:41ineligible for or unnecessary through

2:13:44the chair, could were were there any

2:13:46examples of what that could be?

2:13:48>> Uh, yes, sir. So, I'll I'll give one

2:13:51example and then Rick can give one

2:13:53related to utilities um that's pretty

2:13:56common. But the example I would give

2:13:58would be when a truck took out the

2:14:00pedestrian bridge that crossed um um the

2:14:06the um I guess it's Route 90 in

2:14:10Colinwood. There was a there's a

2:14:12pedestrian bridge that crosses. Um,

2:14:15Councilman uh wanted to have Noddingham

2:14:19Village andor Colinwood as as um signage

2:14:23on that pedestrian bridge to identify

2:14:25the neighborhoods that it connected.

2:14:27ODOT said that's fine, but you have to

2:14:30pay the cost of that. That's not related

2:14:32to our project, but if you want an

2:14:34enhancement, you can pay for that. So,

2:14:36if um ODOT were to say

2:14:41we want to widen the exit ramp at 150th

2:14:44and make it I think right now it's a

2:14:46two-lane exit ramp and they want to make

2:14:48it a threelane exit ramp or or something

2:14:50like that. Um but they determine that uh

2:14:54it's actually unnecessary. They just

2:14:56want to do it. Could they then foot the

2:14:58city with that bill?

2:15:00>> Uh no. That doesn't fit the fact pattern

2:15:03of an example that I gave you. So, no.

2:15:05Um, there is another example Rick can

2:15:07give about about pipes for utility work.

2:15:10Um,

2:15:12>> I I'm not I guess I'm not looking for

2:15:14those sort of

2:15:16past experience. What here here's the

2:15:18problem.

2:15:20What we're looking at here is a proposal

2:15:22that could potentially get Cleveland

2:15:24taxpayers to sign on for facilitating

2:15:25the exit of the of of the Cleveland

2:15:27Browns from Cleveland. And that's like

2:15:29the fear that I have. People all the

2:15:31time in my neighborhood say, "I don't

2:15:32want to put a single penny towards them

2:15:33leaving the city." and and and my

2:15:35concern has always been there are these

2:15:36little nickel and dime projects that pop

2:15:38up around our edges where ODOT wants to

2:15:41come in and they do these ramps. And I

2:15:43will say because it's it's it's it's

2:15:44true in factual ODOT has been

2:15:46resurfacing exit ramps up and down 480.

2:15:48They've done three in my ward in the

2:15:50last I don't know three years they did

2:15:52uh I think State Road or Ridge Road just

2:15:54got done. Um, and I think they did some

2:15:57work up on state and I know that they

2:15:58have been doing exit ramp work, but now

2:16:01comes the time where we start to worry

2:16:02about whether or not anything we do down

2:16:05here is going to cause Cleveland

2:16:06taxpayers to pay for the vanity project

2:16:09in Brook Park. Um, and that's what I

2:16:11think everybody's worried about. I don't

2:16:13know if we're not just spelling if we're

2:16:15not spelling it out [clears throat]

2:16:17clearly enough, but uh that is my

2:16:19concern regarding this project that this

2:16:21could just be used to facilitate, you

2:16:22know, economic decline in downtown

2:16:24Cleveland. And I don't think that's

2:16:25anything Cleveland residents ever should

2:16:26be asked to pay for. If we're going to

2:16:28take a hit to our bottom line in the

2:16:30city of Cleveland and we're going to

2:16:31take a financial dive downtown and we're

2:16:33going to close up businesses because of

2:16:35a billionaire's decision to move his

2:16:37little pet project outside of the city,

2:16:39then I don't want a single penny in

2:16:40Cleveland tax dollars going to

2:16:41facilitate that decision. I think that's

2:16:43just like a very understandable

2:16:44position. I should not represent people

2:16:46that have to pay for this blow to our uh

2:16:51integrity as a city. So that's why I'm

2:16:53asking these questions, not about

2:16:54whether or not there was a pipe

2:16:55underground a couple years ago that

2:16:56needed, you know, some some some work

2:16:58done and and and that's not what I'm

2:17:00getting at. Through the chair, to the

2:17:03director, what reassurance do we have

2:17:05that any of these projects won't be used

2:17:06to simply uh that won't cost Cleveland

2:17:09taxpayers any money?

2:17:12uh through the chairman of the

2:17:13councilman. The city of Cleveland is not

2:17:15going to request any items that would

2:17:18require the city to pay for additional

2:17:21work in this project. We're not making

2:17:23any requests for this project. So, there

2:17:25will be no costs that come to the city.

2:17:28If we ask for something that is not part

2:17:31of the scope of the project, then it

2:17:32would be our responsible to pay for

2:17:34that. We're not going to ask for

2:17:36anything that's not part of the scope of

2:17:37this project.

2:17:42Okay.

2:17:44Um,

2:17:46Mr. Chair, I'm looking to see if this

2:17:47has the same language about this is not

2:17:49this is just pure ODOT. Mr. Chair, I

2:17:51didn't have any objections obviously

2:17:52with the Warren Road Bridge because it's

2:17:53it's up on 90 and it's a it's a bridge

2:17:55over a highway and and I understand that

2:17:57a lot more. I I have concerns about this

2:17:59one. Um, I appreciate the director's,

2:18:02you know, verbal reassurance. I always

2:18:05worry about, you know, death by a

2:18:06thousand cuts when it comes to issues

2:18:07like this. Um, I I'll I'll give back my

2:18:10time. Um, thank you.

2:18:13>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Harsh.

2:18:14Uh, Councilman Star.

2:18:17>> Thank you, Chairman. I would just want

2:18:18to reiterate and add to it. Um, when it

2:18:20comes to war five, I just want to make

2:18:23sure I stand record to all my

2:18:24colleagues, no matter the committee or

2:18:26not. If I'm not okay with it, please do

2:18:29not bring it to a committee. Um, with

2:18:31all due respect for WAR five, um, I do

2:18:33not want to fall out with any person,

2:18:35any leadership, but if it's in war five,

2:18:37if I'm not in support of it, please do

2:18:40not bring it to a committee. Even if I

2:18:42tell you at the table that I'm not in

2:18:44support of it, I will recommend that

2:18:45chairperson actually hold till um, I

2:18:48bring it to your attention that I am in

2:18:50support of something. If it's happening

2:18:52in W five, I just want to make sure I

2:18:54put that on record. Um and also um chair

2:18:57from from the conversation that I'm

2:19:00hearing from the comments of Councilman

2:19:02Kazy is like it's hard for me as a

2:19:04colleague to want to support something

2:19:05when my colleague is not in support of

2:19:08it as they should. I know it splits in

2:19:10between different wards. I think there

2:19:12should be an opportunity for a happy

2:19:14medium or discussion and figure out how

2:19:16to garner the support of the actual both

2:19:19council members to be able to get this

2:19:20project on. So until I hear recommend um

2:19:23any type of resolution from both

2:19:25colleagues that they would like to

2:19:26support, then it's kind of hard for me

2:19:28to put myself in a situation to go

2:19:30against it.

2:19:34>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Start.

2:19:35Um is there any other questions on

2:19:38ordinance number

2:19:401167 2026?

2:19:45All right. Madam Madame Clerk, can you

2:19:47please call the row?

2:19:51Yes.

2:19:52>> Yes.

2:19:58>> No.

2:20:01>> No.

2:20:06>> How many could you repeat that?

2:20:11>> All right. All right. Is there any other

2:20:14uh comments uh before we before we move

2:20:17on to um to our waste

2:20:21presentation?

2:20:23All right. Thank you very much,

2:20:25director.

2:20:34All right. Can we have the uh public

2:20:36works um people up, please?

2:20:56We sign

2:21:05>> Yeah.

2:21:11All right, director. Uh, welcome to the

2:21:14table back.

2:21:15>> Thank you.

2:21:16>> And, uh, you want to kick us off?

2:21:18>> Absolutely. Thank you, chair and

2:21:20committee. Uh, we wanted to make sure

2:21:24that we, um, talk about uh, the changes

2:21:28that we were proposing to make to

2:21:30ordinance 551. This is the ordinance for

2:21:32way citation. Um, after [clears throat]

2:21:36a long string of just doing the

2:21:38citations, trying to be as faithful to

2:21:40the ordinance as we possibly could, we

2:21:41realized that there are some things that

2:21:43should could change. And so we we uh put

2:21:46some proposed some recommendations to

2:21:48make changes to this ordinance for it to

2:21:50be able uh to work more effectively in

2:21:53our mind to be more um I guess to be

2:21:56more fair to our citizens, but at the

2:21:58same time keep the balance of keeping

2:22:01the city clean. Um, uh, waste collection

2:22:04is, um, about keeping the city clean and

2:22:07safe. And so we, uh, we have sat down a

2:22:10few times with the council chair to go

2:22:12through what our proposed ideas were for

2:22:13this. We wanted to present these changes

2:22:15to you. And, uh, I wanted to make sure

2:22:17that we have full and fair discussion

2:22:19about this because it could impact, you

2:22:22know, your citizen, your citizens. So,

2:22:24we just want to make sure that everybody

2:22:25understands the thoughts that we have.

2:22:26Again, this is an ordinance that this

2:22:28body passed. We did our best to try to

2:22:31execute it as it was passed and we just

2:22:33as we got through it, we saw that maybe

2:22:35there's some things we could tweak uh to

2:22:37make it more effective. So with that, I

2:22:38I'll have the commissioner uh um here um

2:22:43the assistant commissioner. Just a

2:22:45minute, director. So this piece um uh

2:22:48legislation is not being voted on today.

2:22:51>> The waste collection is um just merely

2:22:53giving us a presentation today. So,

2:22:56we're going to take uh we're going to

2:22:58look at the presentation and we're going

2:22:59to take questions to the to the um to to

2:23:02our waist officials. Uh but we're not

2:23:04going to vote on this piece today,

2:23:06Councilman Kazy. So, I'm not exactly

2:23:08sure if that helps, but this number is

2:23:10591. Uh

2:23:13uh just a second. Director, can you um

2:23:16kind of identify everybody's at the

2:23:18table? We might have a few members that

2:23:20may not know who everyone is.

2:23:21>> To my left is assistant director Patrick

2:23:24Dugan. uh assistant director was has

2:23:27been with us since April. To my right is

2:23:29commissioner Terrell Puit, the

2:23:31commissioner of the division. Uh next to

2:23:33him is Crystal Patterson who's the

2:23:35assistant commissioner of waste

2:23:37collection and next to her is Natasha

2:23:38Brewster who is administrative manager

2:23:41in the division of waste. Uh we're all

2:23:44here because in some way, shape or form,

2:23:45we will play a part in how this uh how

2:23:48we activate this.

2:23:49>> Okay. All right. Go ahead.

2:23:50>> Okay. So I I think maybe it makes sense

2:23:52to allow commissioner to really talk

2:23:54about the changes here, but um if you

2:23:56want me to be the person who runs the

2:23:58slide, you can do the talking if you

2:23:59want to do that. Sure. Okay. All right.

2:24:00So we'll go to the first slide.

2:24:06>> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, uh for taking

2:24:08the time to uh listen uh to our

2:24:11recommendations. Uh the legislation, the

2:24:13reason it is long because we want to

2:24:15update the entire chapter. Uh this

2:24:17chapter governs everything that we do.

2:24:20uh primarily in the division of waste

2:24:22and there's some legacy things that

2:24:24needed to be updated to match uh the

2:24:2621st century. Uh there's a number of uh

2:24:29uh sections in here which changes

2:24:32language from public sector or public

2:24:34service department of public service to

2:24:36public works. We also took the time as

2:24:39you look on the first uh slide to really

2:24:42update definitions and be clear uh what

2:24:45when we are communicating what we do and

2:24:48what we're referring to. So for example,

2:24:51we first identified what is uh household

2:24:54uh was what is municipal solid waste. Uh

2:24:57we very clear on that language that was

2:24:59something that was that we needed to be

2:25:02um that need to be updated. We also talk

2:25:04about what's acceptable containers. Uh

2:25:08right now we are an automated system or

2:25:10no longer uh do we allow for individuals

2:25:14to put out private waste containers. And

2:25:16then another key item that need to be

2:25:18updated is what is bulk items? Uh folks

2:25:21often get confused when we uh talk about

2:25:24what is a bulk item, a bulk item weeks,

2:25:26what is what is acceptable, what is a

2:25:28bulk item versus what is construction

2:25:30material which we do not accept for

2:25:32curbside collection.

2:25:34Next slide.

2:25:37There's a couple things that we needed

2:25:38to update that makes us a little bit

2:25:41more efficient. One of the key things is

2:25:44uh is wrapping a story of trash. Uh one

2:25:48of the uh one this is very important to

2:25:50protect not only our workforce but also

2:25:52keep the city of Cleveland clean. uh

2:25:55often times our uh collectors and our

2:25:58drivers come across uh

2:26:01uh collection stops that are hazard to

2:26:03their health. So we wanted to be clear

2:26:05that it is illegal to uh place uh loose

2:26:09um trash such as feces and things of

2:26:11that nature. And this is all done in a

2:26:13in a in an effort to keep them safe. And

2:26:16also this gives us this legislation will

2:26:18give us authority to be able to actually

2:26:21write citations

2:26:24uh for illegal dumping as well as for

2:26:26litter. Uh often uh currently uh litter

2:26:30and uh legal dumping is a criminal

2:26:32offense only. Uh is something that now

2:26:36allows us to be able to write a civil

2:26:38citation and issue tickets for uh when

2:26:40we detect uh dumping and also litter.

2:26:45Uh next slide please.

2:26:48One of the key things that often cause a

2:26:50lot of uh questions is the penalties. Uh

2:26:54so right now most of the penalties were

2:26:56set at only two uh uh at only $2 amounts

2:27:01either $100 or $350. And we wanted to

2:27:04make it more uh realistic for so that

2:27:08way the penalty matches uh the crime.

2:27:11So, for example, you see that our

2:27:14current uh for uh for leaving your

2:27:16garbage cans out too long was $100 no

2:27:18matter what. Now, it's 20 $25 per

2:27:20incident. Where folks who put out uh

2:27:23trash outside of the cart, no matter if

2:27:26it was one garbage bag or one pizza box

2:27:29outside the garbage can, it was $100.

2:27:32Now, we it's a it is a range of $25 per

2:27:37item up to four. Anything more than

2:27:40four, five to 10 would be $200 and

2:27:44anything more than 10 when you set

2:27:46everything out on the tree line to be

2:27:47$350.

2:27:49We also wanted to give individuals more

2:27:52time to pay. Uh it was only a 20-day uh

2:27:56window for an individual to contest the

2:27:58citation. We extended that to 60 days

2:28:02and also we're taking that process

2:28:05inhouse. often we have outsourced the uh

2:28:09cit the contest the the ability to

2:28:12contest the citation through the croos.

2:28:15Uh we are bringing that process in house

2:28:17in 2027 and that's the reason why we

2:28:20also brought Mrs. Natasha Brewster down.

2:28:22She's uh taking over all uh protest and

2:28:26uh um for high grass as well as anyway

2:28:29citations uh for this division of for

2:28:32the department of public works.

2:28:35Next slide.

2:28:39Uh we added uh as as stated before uh we

2:28:42have identified penalties. We made uh

2:28:46identified penalty for things that were

2:28:48purely a criminal nature wrapping and

2:28:50storing of trash. It is now a $100 fine

2:28:54versus just being a a a criminal

2:28:57citation. Illegal dumping. As mentioned

2:29:00before, this legislation gives us the

2:29:01ability to write a $1,000 citation when

2:29:04we detect illegal dumping and as well as

2:29:08to be able to not only write a citation

2:29:11for the property owner or but also if we

2:29:14detect that a vehicle is in use, we can

2:29:18we can find out the owner of the vehicle

2:29:20and issue them a citation as well.

2:29:23Uh, next slide.

2:29:28Uh there's some other things that need

2:29:29to be updated in the 21st century. Uh

2:29:33what we do is we license and approve

2:29:36waste haulers in the city of Cleveland,

2:29:38which is labor laboratorious

2:29:41um task. We updated that that uh we

2:29:46updated the amount they pay to um $1,000

2:29:50for their fleet as well as we changed

2:29:53the waste hauling fee to $150. I think

2:29:56the previous it was 7 uh 700. It was

2:29:59$75.

2:30:02And then the last

2:30:06and the last uh slide just talks about

2:30:09Oh, was it one more? Yes. Or so the

2:30:11second to the last slide just talks

2:30:12about some of the minor changes. These

2:30:14are language changes throughout the

2:30:16legislation that changes uh things from

2:30:19uh public service to public works. So,

2:30:21they're all listed throughout the um all

2:30:23listed uh in the ordinance, but it gives

2:30:26you a list of what uh amendments you'll

2:30:29see uh in the legislation.

2:30:33And then finally is our plan, how we

2:30:36want to communicate that. Uh this is a

2:30:38new change for some folks. Uh way

2:30:41citation can cause often some um drama.

2:30:46So, we want to be very clear and

2:30:48transparent when we communicate some of

2:30:50these changes to the community uh prior

2:30:53to us just uh going out and writing

2:30:55citations.

2:30:57Uh with that being said, um we open up

2:31:01uh to any type of question that you or

2:31:02your committee members may have. Okay.

2:31:05All right. Thank you, Commissioner. Uh

2:31:07so the second to the last slide where

2:31:08you where you listed all the amendments.

2:31:11So these will all be amendments to the

2:31:15current legislation. Each one of these

2:31:17>> correct

2:31:18>> and that's how many? That's about how

2:31:20many? 25 30.

2:31:22>> Yes. And like like I said, these are

2:31:23minor change. These are language

2:31:24changes. They're not substantive

2:31:26changes.

2:31:27>> Okay. But the but the other stuff that

2:31:29you went over were major changes to

2:31:33uh penalizing uh folks, time to pay uh

2:31:37and then your authority to be able to

2:31:39site folks.

2:31:40>> Correct. Okay. Correct. All right. I'm

2:31:42going to open it up to uh the committee

2:31:45um for questions.

2:31:47Anybody wants want to go first?

2:31:50>> I'm going to go Councilwoman Hudson.

2:31:55>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so I see that

2:31:59the the penalties

2:32:02um are are you know now $100 or will be

2:32:06$100 and then for 551.08 and 551.26 26

2:32:10$1,000. What are the penalties

2:32:12currently?

2:32:13>> Uh through the chair to the council

2:32:15woman, they're all criminal. There is we

2:32:17don't have the authority to write a

2:32:19citation for those. This legislation

2:32:21will give us ability to write citations.

2:32:26>> Oh. So, so what happens now through the

2:32:29chair? Um you know, you have an illegal

2:32:31or I'm sorry, improper setout. Um what

2:32:34happens? What happens now if somebody um

2:32:37you know leaves their card out longer

2:32:39than they're supposed to or you know

2:32:42puts bulk items out on a day that

2:32:44they're not allowed to. Uh go to the

2:32:46slide before this uh through the chair

2:32:48to the councilwoman for legal setouts

2:32:51there that currently you get a $100 uh

2:32:54citation that is we do have authority to

2:32:56write citations for those. Uh the

2:32:58legislation allows us to continue to

2:33:01write citations for those instances, but

2:33:04we have reduced the amount that we

2:33:06charge per um based on the make the

2:33:10crime fit the um what we asked folks to

2:33:13pay. So for example, it was $100 no

2:33:16matter if you put one item, one bag of

2:33:18trash out. We want to reduce that to $25

2:33:21per item up to four. And then if you put

2:33:25out five to 10, it's $200 and anything

2:33:28more than that is $350.

2:33:31>> Okay. And then um thank you for

2:33:33explaining that. Um through the chair,

2:33:35I'm you know, I've been really focused

2:33:39lately on illegal dumping. Um so can you

2:33:42explain the change

2:33:45um between what how how um illegal

2:33:49dumping is um cited or penalized now and

2:33:53then and then what change this would

2:33:54bring.

2:33:55>> Uh through the chair to the uh council

2:33:56woman. Uh currently illegal dumping is a

2:33:59criminal only. It's a misdemeanor. Uh

2:34:02you either need a um commissioned police

2:34:05officer or a special police officer to

2:34:07write a citation for legal dumping. Uh

2:34:11this gives us the ability to write a

2:34:14civil citation bas it's just the same

2:34:17individual that will write a ticket for

2:34:19uh leaving your car too long. We can now

2:34:22write a ticket for legal dumping and it

2:34:24incentivize we have more

2:34:27>> uh the uh you may you're I'm sure you're

2:34:30aware of the illegal um um crimes legal

2:34:33dumping uh comm um

2:34:35>> the environmental crimes task force

2:34:36>> environmental crimes task force. What

2:34:38this does, it allows us in the division

2:34:41of waste and actually employees in

2:34:42public works gives us the authority to

2:34:45be in a right uh civil citations which

2:34:47increases the amount of employees that

2:34:49can go out and do some enforcement to

2:34:52>> so through to the chair to the

2:34:53counciloman today if we do work on um a

2:34:57vacant lot to uh clean up you know

2:35:00illegal dumping um ordinance 209 gives

2:35:03us some amount of authority to do some

2:35:05things grass cutting noxious weed But

2:35:08when you get into the heavier things, we

2:35:10we really don't have a response for

2:35:12that. So in being able for us to be able

2:35:14to site um is going to help us. I mean,

2:35:17you know, Muriel was probably the the

2:35:19the bane of your existence. So it's sit

2:35:22situations like that where you're kind

2:35:23of we're kind of in the middle of what

2:35:25do we do here? I I got I have authority

2:35:27to do this and I have to somebody else

2:35:30has authority to do that, but it's kind

2:35:31of this gray area. So for us, illegal

2:35:33dumping is one of the areas that we want

2:35:35to be able to try to attack harder. And

2:35:37so this is one of the ways that we feel

2:35:39like we can do that if we we're able to

2:35:40site.

2:35:41>> Okay. Thank you for explaining that. And

2:35:43um so would you and you know

2:35:46particularly egregious situation um

2:35:49through the chair, would you also

2:35:50involve the environmental crimes task

2:35:52force

2:35:53>> through the chair to the uh to the

2:35:55council? Yes, we would. and um through

2:35:57the chair um in particular, I know that

2:35:59the there the one ordinance specifically

2:36:02targets

2:36:04um vehicles used in illegal dumping. So

2:36:07would you involve you know the the

2:36:09police or environmental crimes task

2:36:11force in order to you know utilize the

2:36:14license plate information and track down

2:36:16those individuals

2:36:17>> uh through the chair to the councilman.

2:36:19Uh we don't necessarily have to. what it

2:36:21does, it incentivize us to be able to

2:36:23purchase and and uh and erect our own

2:36:26cameras.

2:36:26>> Okay?

2:36:27>> So that way if we have hot spots

2:36:29throughout the city that we know that or

2:36:31corridors, we know that we have

2:36:32significant amount of legal dumping, uh

2:36:34then now it's it makes sense for us to

2:36:36invest and if we are able to capture any

2:36:39type of evidence that ties a particular

2:36:42vehicle to a dump site, then we just

2:36:44issue a citation to whoever registers

2:36:46that vehicle.

2:36:47>> Okay. Thank you. Um and you know through

2:36:50the chair I just want to give an

2:36:51example. So what happens if um you know

2:36:55illegal dumping happens on somebody's

2:36:57property

2:36:59um

2:37:01and they you know for maybe they're an

2:37:04absentee owner or maybe they just um you

2:37:07know aren't at the property often enough

2:37:10to know what's going on there. Um what

2:37:13what happens in that situation? Do you

2:37:14cite the property owner as well as the

2:37:16person doing the dumping and whose

2:37:18responsibility is it for cleanup?

2:37:19>> So through the chair uh to I will say

2:37:22under 209 we have always cited the

2:37:25property owner um even if the property

2:37:27owner was not involved in the dumping um

2:37:30through this citation. That's why we

2:37:32want to be able to try to if we can get

2:37:34license plates that way we can try to

2:37:35get the offender but ultimately um if we

2:37:40are if we are going to site and we don't

2:37:41have an offender we're going to site the

2:37:43property owner through the chair.

2:37:44>> Okay. Thank you. So, so just to be clear

2:37:47through the chair, um this um this new

2:37:52um version of the amendment of the

2:37:54ordinance will allow

2:37:57the Department of Public Works to um

2:38:03site

2:38:04the person doing the dumping in addition

2:38:07to the property owner when currently you

2:38:09can only site the property owner. So

2:38:11through the chair, through the council,

2:38:12we we cannot cite um the property owner.

2:38:16What we can do is abate the nuisance and

2:38:18send an invoice. Um what we want to try

2:38:21to be able to do is have a little bit

2:38:22more teeth through citation.

2:38:24>> Okay.

2:38:25>> Okay. Thank you.

2:38:26>> That's all.

2:38:28>> All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh

2:38:30next I'm going to go to Councilman Star.

2:38:33[clears throat]

2:38:34>> Thank you, Chair. I'll be real brief.

2:38:35Um, one of the things I will ask from a

2:38:38standpoint, how are we going to be able

2:38:40to market and get the message out of

2:38:41these changes? Do we have anything

2:38:43within the budget that we would like to

2:38:45include to ensure that we have dollars

2:38:47to get the message out of these changes?

2:38:49One of the things I know from our

2:38:51current program where we site for trash

2:38:54cans, one of the ones who been cited the

2:38:56most is our seniors who sometimes be

2:38:59like 90 some years old and they're like,

2:39:01"Well, I just forgot to keep my cans or

2:39:03they didn't get somebody to get it out."

2:39:05Um, so within this new changes, what

2:39:07type of marketing or strategy um are we

2:39:10actually looking to perform to make sure

2:39:12we get the messaging out to residents in

2:39:14Cleveland of these changes if they pass

2:39:16through the chair?

2:39:22to the chair, to the councilman. So, we

2:39:23have an extensive outreach plan where we

2:39:25want to work with the residents. Not

2:39:27only um we're we're looking into doing

2:39:30flyers within their utility bill, we're

2:39:32also doing marketing campaigns um

2:39:35through our internal sources here as

2:39:37well. So, we want to make sure that they

2:39:38get plenty of outreach to the residents

2:39:40before any of this takes place.

2:39:43>> Yes. And then also, I know we spoke a

2:39:45little bit about um technology usage,

2:39:47trying to get more cameras, especially

2:39:49in those places where it seem as if a

2:39:52few people illegally dump every other

2:39:55week. Um within our strategy, have we

2:39:58made a list to understand which is our

2:40:01most prone areas that continues to get

2:40:03the legal dumping and have we also

2:40:05explored how to add technology tools to

2:40:08those areas to ensure that we have some

2:40:10data because obviously we we hear from

2:40:13some people that's in close proximity

2:40:14who tells us what the car may look like,

2:40:17what it may happen or who did what. But

2:40:19then when it comes down for us to being

2:40:21able to enforce anything, what are we

2:40:23doing to be able to add those technology

2:40:25tools that we just spoke about to those

2:40:27areas to make sure we do it? One thing

2:40:29will fire it off. Um they do a lot of

2:40:31great work, but then everyone wants to

2:40:33try to illegal dump on 83rd off in a

2:40:36corner which is a blind spot. Most

2:40:39people are not there. So if you're not

2:40:40riding by and capping and snapping a

2:40:42picture, you probably won't know. Or

2:40:44they do it in the we hours of the

2:40:46evening and the morning. So is there

2:40:48anything from our strategy obviously

2:40:50with the changes for us to be able to

2:40:52add more technology tools to help

2:40:55support us in this effort to um enforce

2:40:57the rules that we are trying to set

2:40:58forth through the chair.

2:40:59>> So I was going to say to the chair to

2:41:01the councilman. So part of your first

2:41:04answer there is our illegal dumping team

2:41:06does a lot of data tracking. So they

2:41:08know they are able to identify hotspots

2:41:10within the city because they they

2:41:12maintain like very accurate records. So,

2:41:14first of all, they do a systematic

2:41:15approach where they drive street by

2:41:17street, but a lot of it is complaint

2:41:18driven. So, they do track all those

2:41:20illegal dumping hotspots. Um, and

2:41:23currently we get environmental crimes

2:41:25involved when we want to put up cameras

2:41:27and and to try to catch certain people.

2:41:29Um, it has its pluses and minuses. So,

2:41:31we have been able to catch individuals,

2:41:33but sometimes it takes uh we have to let

2:41:36the dumping happen. Uh, they ask us to

2:41:38not pick up the dumping so that we can

2:41:40catch individuals as well. Um, but this

2:41:42gives the authority more to ways to be

2:41:44able to use our own internal cameras to

2:41:46hopefully uh catch people faster.

2:41:48Commissioner,

2:41:49>> yeah, through the chair of the council,

2:41:51what this does, it incentivizes us to

2:41:53invest in that type of technology. Uh,

2:41:55without the authority to be able to

2:41:56enforce anything, there was no, it

2:41:58doesn't make any sense to use resources

2:42:00for something we couldn't use.

2:42:03>> Yes. And then my last one I would ask um

2:42:06from our strategy for those who um who

2:42:09have high grass and don't maintain their

2:42:11private property. Um I know obviously

2:42:13when we go through grass cutting and the

2:42:15weather breaks I know the first cycle we

2:42:17try to hit and cut everything to get

2:42:19everything um level setting. Um I would

2:42:22ask for the for the standpoint after you

2:42:24do the first cut what enforcement

2:42:26mechanism or tools will we have in place

2:42:28to actually site those property owners

2:42:30as well? Do we have everything

2:42:32strengthened enough for us to do that or

2:42:34do we need to change anything through

2:42:35the chair?

2:42:36>> Uh through the chair to the council. If

2:42:38we're talking specifically grass

2:42:39cutting, um the for vacant properties,

2:42:42we we don't have the authority get into

2:42:44site. We just have the ability to abate

2:42:47bait the nuisance and then we send out

2:42:48an invoice to the person we've done the

2:42:50work with. Is there if that's something

2:42:52worth um changing where we can try

2:42:54possibly do some citation because one of

2:42:56the things happens is you have some that

2:42:59you know have some residents that are in

2:43:00compliance. They do whatever we have

2:43:01they get into all of our programs um as

2:43:04well as keeping their their you know

2:43:07their property maintained. Um what I

2:43:09mean by that is I have uh right off of

2:43:1155th right next to Alexander um tool

2:43:14shop.

2:43:16It's just this boat and all this grass

2:43:18stuff and it's

2:43:19>> it's registered to somebody that's

2:43:21obviously not here. Um, and we keep

2:43:24trying to figure out ways to get it

2:43:25clean, but I don't think there any

2:43:27notification is going to the actual

2:43:29property owner um in a timely manner to

2:43:32make sure they understand that we want

2:43:33them to clean their stuff up or if

2:43:35there's a way to say, "Hey, um, if we

2:43:38did clean it up, how do we actually get,

2:43:42you know, get something attached to them

2:43:43for us to get our money back in the long

2:43:45run?" And I know sometimes when people

2:43:46issue different speeding tickets,

2:43:48obviously it get attached to their

2:43:50license and when they want to renew it,

2:43:51you got to pay that. Is there anything

2:43:53or any tools similar to that that we can

2:43:55utilize for those properties that people

2:43:58need to cut? Because what happens is

2:44:00residents say, "Hey, my property value

2:44:01is going down. They won't keep up.

2:44:03They're maintaining their property that

2:44:05grass is all over."

2:44:06>> Then as you know,

2:44:08>> we we are be chasing around trying to

2:44:10figure out who responsible. Meanwhile,

2:44:11it continues to be just a eyes or

2:44:14anything. So, is there a way that we can

2:44:16say um if we did cut it and we have

2:44:19obligations to make sure we keep it up,

2:44:22how do we get our money back on the back

2:44:23end from those individuals as well or

2:44:25any type of program?

2:44:26>> So, through that, so I first of all,

2:44:28I'll say through the charity to

2:44:29councilman, I'm I am completely open to

2:44:31finding out discovering ways that we can

2:44:34do this better because uh right now I

2:44:36think we're um it it could be a lot

2:44:40better. But I will say that when we do

2:44:42abate a property, if they don't pay, we

2:44:43can lean it to the property right now

2:44:45according to 209. So a person we send

2:44:48you an invoice, you don't pay it. We

2:44:49send it to the county, the county leans

2:44:51the property. So if anything ever

2:44:52happens with the transaction of that

2:44:54land, that has to get paid first. That

2:44:56that is about as much power as we have

2:44:59right now with that. But I'll be very

2:45:01honest with you, I'm willing to sit down

2:45:02and talk about if if people have ideas

2:45:05about what we can do that is within our

2:45:08jurisdiction to be able to do. I know

2:45:09some things with like the boat that's a

2:45:11public safety thing. We have to go

2:45:13through them because of the property

2:45:14issue and all that, but um we are I'm

2:45:17completely open to you know we we're

2:45:19actually creating a group now um keep

2:45:21Cleveland beautiful. I think we came

2:45:23before this council before to start that

2:45:25process. That's one of the venues that

2:45:27we want to try to use uh to try to

2:45:29attack the whole vacant property thing

2:45:31because in our mind it's bigger than

2:45:32just grass cutting. It's like the

2:45:34quality of life issues that you're

2:45:36talking about. So we are we are

2:45:37absolutely open to talk about how we

2:45:39could do this better. So

2:45:40>> Yep. Thank you, Chair.

2:45:43>> All right. Thank you, um, Councilman

2:45:44Star. Uh, Councilman Hirs.

2:45:48>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, you know, I

2:45:50understand uh the sort of the big

2:45:53picture issues. We have, you know, all

2:45:55around town we have slum lords who will

2:45:57evict somebody and just throw everything

2:45:58on the curb and all of a sudden we've

2:46:00got a massive pile of trash and uh

2:46:02eventually enough people complain

2:46:04somebody comes and gets it and it feels

2:46:05like justice wasn't served if the slum

2:46:07lord isn't actually being held

2:46:09responsible for those you know eviction

2:46:11cleanouts. Um, and then of course, you

2:46:14know, we have just, you know, good

2:46:15old-fashioned dumping where people just

2:46:17show up on our streets and just unload

2:46:19trucks and, um, we want to do our best

2:46:22to try to hold those people accountable.

2:46:23And I do appreciate, you know, the, uh,

2:46:24some teeth being put in here to address

2:46:26some of those. On the other end of the

2:46:28spectrum, we don't want Aunt Mildred to

2:46:29get caught in the crossfires because she

2:46:31put her couch out and didn't know that

2:46:32she had to wrap it and got her grandson

2:46:35from, you know, Garfield to come in and

2:46:37do it and he didn't know the rules and

2:46:38he just set it out there for grand aunt

2:46:40Mildred and um we don't want her

2:46:42getting, you know, excessively fined as

2:46:44a result of this. It's a uh a narrow

2:46:47path you have to walk.

2:46:49>> Um so through the chair, uh how many

2:46:51people work in the enforcement division

2:46:53within the Department of Waste? How many

2:46:54people are there that actually go out

2:46:56there and check on these things and can

2:46:58follow up?

2:46:58>> Uh through the chair to the councilman.

2:47:00There's we have nine districts we which

2:47:02we operate.

2:47:03>> Mhm.

2:47:04>> And each district has a foreman

2:47:06>> and those foreman they had the

2:47:07responsibility to uh inspect and write

2:47:10citations in their district daily.

2:47:14>> Okay. So nine districts each one has a

2:47:16foreman who is tasked with the

2:47:18responsibility. So through the chair,

2:47:19would that same foreman then just have

2:47:20these extra um uh civil options

2:47:24available to them or would there be more

2:47:25people brought in to try to address

2:47:27these issues?

2:47:28>> Uh through the chair, yes, they will

2:47:29have they'll have new teeth, but also

2:47:31the way the legislation is written uh

2:47:33gives authority to any uh employee in

2:47:36this in public works.

2:47:38>> So we can actually uh when we discuss

2:47:40with the directors about actually adding

2:47:43uh more individuals if necessary. for

2:47:45example.

2:47:46>> Yeah,

2:47:47>> our division is not uh the the lead when

2:47:49it comes to legal dumping,

2:47:51>> but now it also will allow for the folks

2:47:54who who abate illegal dumping, they have

2:47:56the authority to write citations as

2:47:58well.

2:47:58>> So through the chair, uh I guess I'm the

2:48:00chair. Um through myself, uh

2:48:05commissioner, um [clears throat] would

2:48:08the language currently draft, and I know

2:48:10we're not here to vote today, so we're

2:48:11just here to have a discussion. Would

2:48:12the language currently drafted allow

2:48:13literally anybody in your department to

2:48:14issue a civil certificate? It's like the

2:48:16the guy's on the truck sees something,

2:48:18he wants to write the ticket, he can and

2:48:20just slap it on the on the bin and just

2:48:21keep moving.

2:48:22>> Uh yes, it gives authority for any uh

2:48:25for anyone to write citation, but we do

2:48:28limit the folks who are trained and

2:48:30authorized to write citations. Yeah, I

2:48:32was going to say because I remember when

2:48:33I was at the CDC getting uh uh the HUD

2:48:36ruling that I wasn't an author I wasn't

2:48:38a state certified housing inspector so I

2:48:40couldn't isn't issue a I couldn't do

2:48:41code enforcement even if it wasn't a

2:48:42violation I know you have to be

2:48:43certified by the state to write a

2:48:45violation no what is what is the

2:48:47language on that if the civil ticket

2:48:49does the state of Ohio have regulations

2:48:50on who can actually write them

2:48:52>> no uh through um through the chair to

2:48:54the councilman no that's not required

2:48:56for this letter say it's not required uh

2:48:59what it but what we do do is we make

2:49:01sure We train individuals because some

2:49:03of this stuff could be nuanced.

2:49:04>> Yeah.

2:49:04>> And we want to make sure that we also

2:49:06hold individuals responsible for what

2:49:08they write.

2:49:09>> So through the Okay, back. Thank you for

2:49:11back through the chair. Um, so it

2:49:13wouldn't be anybody in your department

2:49:15would be able to issue. It' be anybody

2:49:17that you

2:49:18>> choose to send through training and to

2:49:20be leveled up to this would now have

2:49:23that. It wouldn't just be Jack and Jill

2:49:25and everybody in the department can all

2:49:26of a sudden write tickets and have fun

2:49:28>> uh through the chair. That's correct.

2:49:30>> Okay. Um uh so through the chair my next

2:49:34big question is I I was looking through

2:49:35these uh is it order this list of of

2:49:39issues and uh I I I like every council

2:49:42member looks for my pet peeve first. Um

2:49:45my pet peeve as you know commissioner is

2:49:47people that don't take their trash cans

2:49:48behind their house and instead leave

2:49:51them

2:49:52>> week round month round in the front of

2:49:54the house usually next to the porch. Um,

2:49:56and I know that I believe it was

2:49:57actually Councilman Jones that passed

2:49:59that changed that ordinance about 20

2:50:01years ago, um, that made it so that you

2:50:03could no longer keep your trash cans in

2:50:04the front. You had to take them back.

2:50:06And I I remember and and trying to

2:50:08address some of this, I think it was on

2:50:09Nachez, was a it's a copycat crime. So

2:50:12once one person sees somebody keep their

2:50:13trash can by their porch, they're like,

2:50:15"Well, I'm going to keep my trash can by

2:50:16my porch because they can do it, right?"

2:50:17And all of a sudden, you got Nachez and

2:50:19you've got like 20 houses keeping their

2:50:21trash cans in front of the porch. If you

2:50:23put your trash in the front, your

2:50:24neighborhood will look trashy, right?

2:50:26So, I kept I was door knocking and

2:50:28trying to talk to people about getting

2:50:30it back there. And I think I I requested

2:50:31some ticketing and I think we ended up

2:50:33with like uh early setout was getting

2:50:35ticketed because it was uh but not the

2:50:38placement uh of and I'm just wondering

2:50:40the placement of the trash cans. Could

2:50:42we address that real quick through the

2:50:43ch uh to the commissioner? Um, do those

2:50:47have the same ticketing capacity for

2:50:49people that don't take the trash cans to

2:50:50the rear of the house as as uh Early set

2:50:53out and leaving it out too late?

2:50:54>> Uh, through the chair. That's correct.

2:50:56Uh, it's it's the it is it is it is a

2:50:59civil um infraction. We do have the

2:51:02ability to write citations for those.

2:51:04Often times that is complaint driven.

2:51:07>> Uh the reason for that is those uh

2:51:09foremen that are are in the districts,

2:51:12they move with the trash day, right? And

2:51:14often time those uh violations either

2:51:17happen before or after the trash day. So

2:51:19once we so once we get the service

2:51:21request or get a a request to write a

2:51:25citation, that's when we send those

2:51:26individuals to those particular

2:51:28neighborhoods to write those citations.

2:51:30>> Yeah. Know this is like by definition

2:51:31something you can't catch on collection

2:51:33day because the trash cans aren't

2:51:35supposed to be back at the house yet,

2:51:36right? So you have to go there on a you

2:51:38know three days later, four days later.

2:51:39Where in this uh in in this uh what is

2:51:41this? 591 551 where in 551 does it

2:51:45address the uh the storage location of

2:51:47the bins themselves aside from set out?

2:51:50Uh uh one second.

2:52:10>> Oh, go ahead.

2:52:17>> Through the chair. It's um 55104 C. No

2:52:21person shall set out solid waste for

2:52:23collection at any place other than the

2:52:25tree line in front of the property or or

2:52:27at any other designated place for waste

2:52:30collection as defined in the division of

2:52:32this section.

2:52:33>> Okay. I'm I see D and E. I'm on page six

2:52:37of the ordinance under uh 551. Um that's

2:52:41where I see what what page are you on so

2:52:43that I can get on the same page.

2:52:44>> Okay, that was on three.

2:52:45>> That's on page three. So, uh, through

2:52:47the chair to the councilman, I I don't

2:52:49think that it's part of this

2:52:50legislation. The reason for it is

2:52:52because we didn't need to change

2:52:53anything. So, it was already, uh, a

2:52:56civil violation. So, therefore, we

2:52:58didn't need to update or change

2:53:00anything. So, therefore, I don't think

2:53:01it's part of the legislation because we

2:53:03didn't amend it.

2:53:04>> So, I'm sorry, that that was for set out

2:53:07though.

2:53:07>> Correct. So, through uh through the

2:53:08church of the councilman for the storage

2:53:11since it's already illegal. It's a civil

2:53:14um civil.

2:53:14>> So through I I understand what you're

2:53:16saying. I got you. I got you. Sorry.

2:53:18Through the chair. Are you requesting CI

2:53:20permit uh changes to allow civil

2:53:23citations for storage? Cuz that wouldn't

2:53:26that have to be in here?

2:53:27>> Uh through the chair. It's already we

2:53:28already have the authority

2:53:29>> for civil infraction.

2:53:31>> Yes.

2:53:31>> Oh, I thought you had no civil

2:53:33infraction authority.

2:53:34>> Uh through the chair we do. So for

2:53:36example, somebody leaves their trash can

2:53:37in front of their house.

2:53:38>> Uhhuh.

2:53:39>> Uh we can write a citation for $100.

2:53:42>> Okay. Uh but as I as I said it's

2:53:44generally right now we currently don't

2:53:47proactively look.

2:53:48>> Yeah.

2:53:49>> It is a um it's it's by request

2:53:53>> or or service request and then we go

2:53:55back and we write

2:53:56>> I I apologize. I thought the big deal

2:53:58here was that we were giving your

2:53:59department civil authority for the first

2:54:02time ever.

2:54:03>> Uh no through the chair to the

2:54:04councilman. We're getting first time

2:54:06ever civil authority for illegal

2:54:08dumping, littering, and wrapping and

2:54:11storage. Okay.

2:54:12>> And the wrapping and storage is we we

2:54:15encounter on a weekly basis uh folks who

2:54:18will fill up their uh garbage cans with

2:54:21feces.

2:54:22>> Sure.

2:54:22>> And which is which is very dangerous for

2:54:24our employees.

2:54:25>> Okay. I I I thought this I didn't know

2:54:27you had pre-existing civil authority for

2:54:29the storage. Okay. Sorry about that line

2:54:31of question. Um last question and

2:54:33Councilman Hudson started on this and I

2:54:35just want to make sure I understood it.

2:54:36Uh the ticket you said uh through the

2:54:38chair always goes to the property owner.

2:54:41Um so through the chair if the property

2:54:42owner and the person whose name and I

2:54:44believe you use the water department's

2:54:46billing um for waste collections on the

2:54:49water department if the if the owner and

2:54:52the name on the uh account are different

2:54:55um does it always go to the owner or

2:54:57will it sometimes default to the account

2:54:58holder

2:54:59>> uh through the through the chair? It

2:55:00always goes through whoever is listed by

2:55:03the county registar

2:55:04>> as the property owner.

2:55:06>> Correct.

2:55:06>> Okay.

2:55:11Okay. And so in cases where they're out

2:55:13of town or they're LLC's, we just find

2:55:15do the best we can to issue those

2:55:17tickets to the

2:55:18>> So through the chair, we issue a ticket

2:55:20and we just put in the name, it'll be

2:55:21the LLC.

2:55:22>> So they re they will receive a citation.

2:55:25>> Uh often times like they have a chance

2:55:28to contest. If they if they don't

2:55:29contest and they don't if the 60-day

2:55:32window um passes, then we go ahead and

2:55:34send it for collections.

2:55:37>> Okay.

2:55:39Okay. So, okay, I get it. Um,

2:55:44I got five seconds. Mr. Chair, I've I've

2:55:46always been fascinated in revisiting

2:55:48whether or not uh property owners should

2:55:49be allowed to put water in uh the name

2:55:52of anybody but the property owner. And I

2:55:54think it was because complications that

2:55:56came from trying to track down

2:55:57delinquent uh landlords. Um, and because

2:56:00water is also waste um for the billing

2:56:03purposes. Uh it's not an issue for

2:56:05today, but I I say it out loud so I

2:56:07don't forget about it some other day. Uh

2:56:08that's all I have. Thank you, Chairman.

2:56:11>> All right. Thank you, uh Councilman

2:56:12Harsh. I'm going to go to Councilman

2:56:14Jones.

2:56:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's a bit

2:56:19there's a lot here to consume and um I

2:56:22appreciate the fact that through your

2:56:24leadership, Mr. Chairman, you're holding

2:56:26this u piece of legislation today and

2:56:28not looking to pass it. Um we do I I

2:56:31presume in the presentation that we have

2:56:34here uh the current and proposed

2:56:39um are some of the biggest items I

2:56:43presume we're dealing with within this

2:56:45legislation. Is that correct, Mr.

2:56:47Chairman? To the director

2:56:50>> uh through the chair to yes the the

2:56:52larger items we did. I want to make sure

2:56:53we highlighted those in the

2:56:54presentation.

2:56:56>> And and Mr. Chairman, there's quite a

2:56:57bit, you know, in terms of change. I

2:56:59remember a time when um waste is just

2:57:03waste and the whole purpose and

2:57:05proposition of a city is to make sure

2:57:07that it secures the health of of of

2:57:10doing away with waste. And um I remember

2:57:14we used to have you know uh 40ft front

2:57:18in my case a little bit bigger and I

2:57:20remember back in 2000 um when I had to

2:57:24um get rid of my waist we didn't have

2:57:25those containers um so I was able to put

2:57:29you know um 100 foot of of debris on the

2:57:33on the tree line and the city would come

2:57:36and pick it up. In fact they were so

2:57:38good Mr. chairman that um all of the

2:57:41trash and debris would be picked up uh

2:57:44starting at the morning time and then to

2:57:45about 2:00. I think some of the trash

2:57:48people during that period of time was

2:57:50was was if they were finished early they

2:57:52leave early and you probably recall

2:57:54those days maybe and so they were

2:57:57finished with all their collections by

2:57:582:00 maybe 3:00 too late and there 4:00

2:58:01I I think that was really late. um we've

2:58:04seen a sea change in terms of the

2:58:06collection process now it's like we're

2:58:09limiting you now at this space

2:58:11everything. So let me just you know

2:58:14start out by uh asking the question you

2:58:18know [music] we we gave the citizens you

2:58:20know um a um a fee um back in 2013 and

2:58:27it was something that I didn't

2:58:29particularly care for. I felt that then

2:58:31the administration who was running on

2:58:33fiscal responsibility should have made

2:58:35that a part of their presentation when

2:58:37they were running and they didn't do it

2:58:39and I remember having a conversation

2:58:41with now um the d uh commissioner of

2:58:44waste you know why didn't may then the

2:58:47mayor come out and talk about him

2:58:49increasing um taxing the citizens in

2:58:52terms of removal of their waste and so

2:58:55it brings us to this moment here at the

2:58:57table where Um um we have this fee. How

2:59:02much money are we collecting annually

2:59:04from the citizens of the city of

2:59:05Cleveland?

2:59:06>> Uh through the chair of the council

2:59:07about roughly $13 million.

2:59:09>> So we get 13 million each year now.

2:59:14And then they have a limitation on how

2:59:16much they can put out there. Is that

2:59:17correct?

2:59:18>> Uh through the chair. Yes. We are

2:59:19automated system. Uh we issue uh a

2:59:2396gallon waste collection cart.

2:59:25>> Mhm.

2:59:25>> Uh 64gallon cart for recycling. Mhm.

2:59:29>> And we allow uh three bulk items per

2:59:31week.

2:59:32>> Right. So So Mr. Chairman, if I want to

2:59:35put um according to what you have here,

2:59:38and maybe you can correct me, uh if I

2:59:41want to put um garbage in my container,

2:59:45um it's it can't weigh no more than

2:59:47maybe a suitcase that you take to

2:59:49airport.

2:59:50>> Uh how many pounds can be in a cart now?

2:59:53>> Uh through the chair of the council.

2:59:54There's no limitation on what's As long

2:59:56as everything fits in the cart, you can

2:59:58put whatever is necessary in the cart.

2:59:59>> So, what if it weighs over 70 lb?

3:00:02>> Uh, there's no violation for that.

3:00:03>> There's no violation. I was reading this

3:00:05and it said anything over 70 lbs in the

3:00:08cart

3:00:09um is not allowable. Maybe I'm reading

3:00:12it wrong. Maybe I'm reading the wrong

3:00:14information.

3:00:15>> Uh, yes. Uh, through the chair, there's

3:00:17no limitation for the cart. The only

3:00:19limitation that we have that we place is

3:00:22for yard waste. a yard waste is bagged.

3:00:25We don't want the yard waste so heavy

3:00:27that it tears or it's unable for uh one

3:00:31employee to be able to pick up.

3:00:33>> Now, when you say each time you come out

3:00:35there, just for for me to have

3:00:37clarification, so we don't do the very

3:00:39first of the month, you know, you put

3:00:41out bulk. We can now put out bulk every

3:00:43single time we put out garbage. Can you

3:00:46explain that?

3:00:47>> Uh through the chair. Uh bulk is every

3:00:49first week of the month. Mhm.

3:00:51>> But if a resident wants additional bulk

3:00:54set out, they are allowed to do that.

3:00:57But first, they must contact 311 and and

3:01:01uh and put a uh schedule service request

3:01:04for additional bulk items.

3:01:05>> And if they put those bulk items out

3:01:07there uh and it's not scheduled, it

3:01:09won't be picked up

3:01:10>> uh through the chair. It will be picked

3:01:12up, but they are subject to a citation.

3:01:14>> So, they'll get a ticket. And And how

3:01:16much is the ticket, if I may ask? Uh

3:01:18currently the ticket is $350.

3:01:21Uh with the legislation, it allows us to

3:01:24um it'll be $25 per item. Up to up to

3:01:28four

3:01:29>> up to 400

3:01:30>> up to four items.

3:01:32Five or more $200 and more than 10.

3:01:36Five. Five to 10 is $200 and more to 10

3:01:39is be 350.

3:01:40>> Be 350. So it get up to 350. Um, and so

3:01:45I see the the penalty changes here. So

3:01:48it seems like you're decreasing the

3:01:49penalties. Let me ask why the proposed

3:01:51decrease. Uh, through the chair, to the

3:01:53councilman, just to make it more

3:01:54proportional. Uh, we're not looking to

3:01:57generate revenue. What we're looking for

3:01:59is compliance. Uh, folks make mistakes.

3:02:03Uh, so therefore, we want to be more

3:02:05benevolent and also be more

3:02:07understanding. You put you put

3:02:09additional bag out because it wouldn't

3:02:11fit in your your trash can. you

3:02:12shouldn't you shouldn't have to pay

3:02:14$100. So therefore, we wanted to reduce

3:02:17it so it kind of fits.

3:02:20>> So So how much do we charge now with

3:02:23with when people who um set their carts

3:02:26out uh and leave them out? They set them

3:02:29out ahead of time and then leave them

3:02:30out for a whole week

3:02:32>> uh through the chair. It's $100

3:02:33>> and and that's right now currently.

3:02:35>> Yes. And would this legislation allow us

3:02:37to reduce for $25 per incident?

3:02:40>> I see. And um you know I would probably

3:02:44be opposed to that that particular piece

3:02:46there. And here's why. Uh we have we

3:02:50have sent out to our people. We've had

3:02:52community meetings. We've talked about

3:02:53this and we have and I've had

3:02:56conversations with with you director and

3:02:59I've had conversations with you

3:03:01commissioner. Um if we have like these

3:03:03different foremans that's supposed to be

3:03:05out there are they the ones who would go

3:03:07out and write these tickets Mr.

3:03:09determined to the director

3:03:11>> uh through the chair. That's correct. Uh

3:03:12for early setouts or late setouts, it's

3:03:15by request only

3:03:17>> uh because they move with the day's

3:03:19collection. So therefore, if it's a

3:03:21particular address or location that

3:03:24leave their carts out too late or put

3:03:25them out too early, uh then once we get

3:03:27the request, we then go out there and

3:03:29write the citation.

3:03:30>> Who is the former Mr. Chairman to the

3:03:32commissioner for Ward One?

3:03:34>> Uh there are multiple foreman. They work

3:03:35for a particular station. uh they work

3:03:38for um your trash is collected out of

3:03:40the car station and there's uh multiple

3:03:43foremen to work out of there. There are

3:03:44three that are assigned on a daily

3:03:46basis.

3:03:46>> And and who are they, Mr. Chairman, to

3:03:48the commissioner?

3:03:50>> Um I I don't I don't have the names off

3:03:52the top of my head.

3:03:54>> And are they and what are their

3:03:55responsibilities other than just writing

3:03:57tickets?

3:03:58>> Uh their primary responsibilities to

3:04:00make sure that the day's collection is

3:04:02completed. uh make sure that they keep

3:04:05their employees safe and then make sure

3:04:07that uh just basically uh make sure good

3:04:10just make sure that they uh execute the

3:04:13um the SOP of the division of waste.

3:04:15>> What is that again? Can you explain?

3:04:17>> Execute the the standard operation

3:04:19procedure of the division of waste. They

3:04:21make sure that the trash is collected on

3:04:22a daily basis.

3:04:23>> I see. And and so here here's here's

3:04:26where I got a real problem in this and

3:04:28and hopefully we can work it out. Uh we

3:04:31haven't done a good job thus far. Um

3:04:33there's a couple of things that are

3:04:34happening and I my colleague uh Chris

3:04:36Harsh brought it out. Um and

3:04:40uh it is people who are um moving in the

3:04:44neighborhood, they're renters

3:04:47um and and maybe others um and they're

3:04:51setting their trash cans out. Those

3:04:53trash cans sometimes, Mr. chairman to

3:04:55the commissioner out there for 24 hours,

3:04:597 days a week, an entire month, an

3:05:02entire year. And there's one particular

3:05:04property I've called on because I see it

3:05:07all the time at the end of my street and

3:05:09I've called on it several times. They

3:05:11leave their garbage out all the time.

3:05:13And um you know I would I would say that

3:05:17maybe on the issue of of penalties that

3:05:20it should be a step up if you do have

3:05:22the penalties where you have people who

3:05:23don't know 25 and having a sense of

3:05:26benevolency for that. I'm not opposed to

3:05:28having a heart. What I am opposed to is

3:05:31when people who don't who are renters

3:05:33and we have property owners who have to

3:05:36live by people who leave their garbage

3:05:38out 24 hours and don't care and they can

3:05:41smell the stench of the garbage. Uh to

3:05:44the people uh Mr. Chairman who again are

3:05:47renters or or or um this new Airbnb

3:05:52things that's going on. We have some of

3:05:54those in the neighborhood. That's the

3:05:55one particular house I'm talking about

3:05:56up the street. Uh and then just people

3:05:59who just don't care u because they don't

3:06:02see the city doing anything. And so then

3:06:04now you had one or two garbage cans

3:06:07being set out. Now you got a whole bunch

3:06:08of them being set out. Everybody's doing

3:06:10it. And so what what the citizens have

3:06:14constantly complained to me about is how

3:06:16do we deal with this issue?

3:06:19And so I need to know who I can talk to

3:06:21there uh in your department. And I know

3:06:23I can't whoever is responsible for

3:06:26riding around should ride around. Um and

3:06:28I would have presumed that all three of

3:06:30these people do they when they finish

3:06:33with garbage day collection for an

3:06:34example if Monday is our garbage day

3:06:36collection what happened to these three

3:06:38employees? Do they stay in the

3:06:39neighborhood and write tickets or do

3:06:41they have to go to the next location?

3:06:43How does that work?

3:06:44>> Uh through the church of the councilman.

3:06:45What's unique about your community is

3:06:47since your garbage day is on Monday, uh

3:06:50from April Fool's Day to Halloween, we

3:06:52actually work on Saturdays. So what

3:06:54happens is in addition to what they're

3:06:56do what the form doing on Saturdays,

3:06:59they do write tickets because it's

3:07:00obvious that if you got a garbage can

3:07:02out on a Saturday, it's either late or

3:07:05it's too early. So they do write tickets

3:07:07on Saturday. So they they are able to

3:07:09catch a lot of enforcement on on

3:07:12Saturdays as well, but during the week

3:07:14they are focused on that day's

3:07:15collection. Their primary responsibility

3:07:17is to make sure all the trash collected

3:07:19for that day.

3:07:21>> Well, I just want to, you know, Mr.

3:07:22Chairman, um, you know, work with you

3:07:25to, you know, get out there more often.

3:07:28We have another issue, too, where we

3:07:29have people, property, you know,

3:07:31unfortunately the city of Cleveland is

3:07:34turning into My thing went down. Can you

3:07:37get me another one? Can I get an

3:07:38extended time, Mr. Chairman? I don't

3:07:41know why these books don't seem to work

3:07:42all the time, but I seem you seem to

3:07:45give me the ooie one all the time.

3:07:50Thank you.

3:07:54>> It doesn't work.

3:07:57>> Thank you.

3:08:02>> So, so Mr. Chairman, I wanted to look at

3:08:05the the piece when she gets it back

3:08:07because I wanted to ask some questions

3:08:08on it. Thank you. Yeah, that'd be fine.

3:08:11Appreciate you.

3:08:13>> Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:08:15Um my you know what what I want to do in

3:08:18my neighborhood is really do

3:08:20enforcement.

3:08:21>> Okay. Um, we don't, our people are very

3:08:25upset and angry, the ones who own homes.

3:08:28And we know that the city of Cleveland

3:08:29is turning into a renters's

3:08:32city right now. It seems like the

3:08:34investors and the banks and financial

3:08:37institutions seem to want to lend to

3:08:39people who more often developers who

3:08:41will turn these properties and homes in

3:08:43our communities as rental properties.

3:08:45I'm absolutely opposed to it. I think

3:08:47that the administration and and and this

3:08:49body needs to look at ways and means to

3:08:51limit it um the proposition of turning

3:08:54our our our city into a total rental

3:08:57system. And so in part the property

3:09:00owners who live in war one um have

3:09:02grievances with people who are doing

3:09:04these trash outs these all of these

3:09:06trash outs. And I just first want to

3:09:08take the opportunity, Mr. Chairman,

3:09:09thank the commissioner for uh getting

3:09:11his crew out. We had had a a situation,

3:09:14Mr. chairman where um calls were made by

3:09:18the citizens that all of this debris was

3:09:20out there on the lawn. It was really

3:09:22nasty. It was really smelly. Uh the

3:09:24people did a trash out. And I'm when I

3:09:26tell you it was horrible. It was

3:09:27horrible. And the person who was doing

3:09:29the trash out told the neighbors that

3:09:31the councilman had given him permission

3:09:33to do it. And by the time I went, you

3:09:36know how it is. By the time I went out

3:09:38there to the site location, uh the one

3:09:41of the uh homeowners was driving in and

3:09:44he made that comment. He says, "That's

3:09:45the man that said you said he could put

3:09:47it out there, Joe Jones." And I told

3:09:50them at the time, "No, I I didn't give

3:09:52nobody no permission to put anything out

3:09:54here like this. He's just straight

3:09:56lying. He's a liar because I don't give

3:09:58nobody no permission to put that kind of

3:10:00debris out there." He had filled up the

3:10:02entire uh Mr. Chairman, the entire front

3:10:04of his lawn all the way to the tree

3:10:05line. sidewalk was covered, people

3:10:07couldn't get past and it was all a mess.

3:10:10So, I called up the commissioner.

3:10:11Commissioner came out there. I think it

3:10:13was the next day and and removed all of

3:10:17the debris from the site. So, I want to

3:10:19thank you. And then we found out, Mr.

3:10:21Chairman, that this was a scam artist.

3:10:23He would wait into senior citizens who

3:10:24are passed and then he would go down and

3:10:27try to take title of their homes. And

3:10:29so, we were able to uh catch this person

3:10:32and put him in jail. And so what's

3:10:35important, Mr. Chairman, um to the

3:10:38director and to the commissioner is, you

3:10:40know, we want our fines to stay the

3:10:42same. If if their stuff is out there and

3:10:46um and they got those garbage cans out

3:10:48there, we want that $100 fine. And and

3:10:51in those cases where, Mr. Chairman, it's

3:10:52a senior citizen, you know, and they're

3:10:55homeowner, then I would say yes, you can

3:10:57have some flexibility. Um but Mr.

3:10:59chairman or or at least discretion up to

3:11:02the commissioner or to the director. But

3:11:04right now, our people are very upset and

3:11:06angry about the fact that those garbage

3:11:09containers are staying out there 24

3:11:11hours, 7 days out of a week, and they

3:11:13are calling on those issues and they're

3:11:15not getting any resolve. The other

3:11:17issue, Mr. Chairman, to the director and

3:11:19the commissioner, is the issue that you

3:11:22have those garbage containers that are

3:11:24at their front doors

3:11:26in their front places. and I go and I

3:11:29knock on the doors and tell them you

3:11:30can't put your stuff out here like this.

3:11:32This is a rule of regulations. You got

3:11:34to put that behind your house. And um

3:11:38some folks listen and some folks don't.

3:11:40They still have it to this day that

3:11:41stuff out there. Yes, Mr. Chairman, to

3:11:43the commissioner.

3:11:44>> Uh through the chair of the councilman,

3:11:46what we'll do is we we hear the the

3:11:48concern. uh not only you make the

3:11:50concern but also Councilman Harsh, what

3:11:52we'll do is we'll cut some we'll add

3:11:54additional people to be a little bit

3:11:56more proactive to work off garbage days

3:11:59to write more of these citations and

3:12:02we'll do it systematically throughout

3:12:03the city so we're not targeting anybody.

3:12:05Uh so what we'll do is we'll identify a

3:12:07couple more employees that specifically

3:12:10have responsibly to write citations on

3:12:12non-garbage days to catch illegal uh

3:12:14catch uh folks who set them out too

3:12:16early, set them up bring them back too

3:12:18late and also don't store them correctly

3:12:20and and and that would really help us uh

3:12:22Mr. chairman and I still think that the

3:12:25fines should stay the same and and maybe

3:12:28in this particular instance, you know,

3:12:30if you want to have benevolency on some,

3:12:32you can um that deserve to have some

3:12:35benevolency, but on some other ones, Mr.

3:12:37Chairman, I don't have no mercy for

3:12:39them. Uh our people out there in that

3:12:41neighborhood know that they're not

3:12:42supposed to put their containers out

3:12:43there. They don't want to smell somebody

3:12:45else's garbage for the entire week. And

3:12:47some of these folks are on section 8.

3:12:49Some of them are halfway houses. And

3:12:51then some of them are businesses and

3:12:53they're continuing to be egregious in my

3:12:55neighborhood. Uh and they have no

3:12:57respect even after the fact, Mr.

3:12:59Chairman, uh to the commissioner, to the

3:13:01director. I've knocked on their doors.

3:13:03I've talked to them. I've sent them

3:13:04letters. I've done everything I need to

3:13:06do. I've had my local development

3:13:08corporation trying to talk to them. And

3:13:10there's nobody's more benevolent and

3:13:11merciful than me sitting here at the end

3:13:13of this table. And so at the end of the

3:13:15day, when I didn't talk to you until I'm

3:13:16blew in the face and you still leave the

3:13:18stuff out, I have on my street alone

3:13:20three three three housings, three houses

3:13:23that constantly do it. And I've already

3:13:26went down the street. I've talked to

3:13:27them. I gave them apple pies. I've given

3:13:29them uh six packs of Pepsis. I've tried

3:13:32to be their friend. You know, please,

3:13:34pretty please, you know, put it in. And

3:13:36and Mr. Chairman, I'll tell you, it just

3:13:38fallen on deaf ears. And so the only

3:13:40thing I need your help and assistance is

3:13:43enforcement.

3:13:44>> Yes, through the chair, we hear you. We

3:13:46understand. Uh what we'll do is we'll uh

3:13:48identify more employees citywide and

3:13:51then we'll we'll be very um diligent on

3:13:54trying to increase the amount of um

3:13:56enforcement.

3:13:57>> And so then now the next question is

3:13:59refrigerators and stuff like that.

3:14:01What's the scoop on that? Mr. Chairman,

3:14:03can we

3:14:03>> through the chair? Uh refrigerators and

3:14:05appliance are allowed for bulk item.

3:14:07>> Okay. So they are allowed to be placed

3:14:09out currently and in the future.

3:14:11>> What about toilets?

3:14:12>> Toilets are uh through the chair. No,

3:14:14toilets not allowed because they are

3:14:16considered construction material and

3:14:17it's dangerous for our employees. Plus,

3:14:19when you place into a packer and you

3:14:21crush it, it it sends fra or sends

3:14:24porcelain flying through the air.

3:14:26>> So if if there's something that you can

3:14:28do to to break this down, because that's

3:14:31going to be another challenge, Mr.

3:14:32chairman is is trying to um um educate

3:14:37the the public the dos and the don'ts.

3:14:39So if you have a listing cuz I see this

3:14:42here this this legislation here is quite

3:14:44a bit of change here. And so what I need

3:14:46to have Mr. Chairman that would help me

3:14:48go through this better is comparison and

3:14:50contrast. So where is this comparison

3:14:53and contrast? Because some of the stuff

3:14:55that I do want to talk about is not on

3:14:56your major pieces and I don't want to

3:14:58spend too much time but it'll give me an

3:15:00ideal because you're going back to

3:15:01legislation. Mr. Chairman, that goes to

3:15:031981. So, whatever that original

3:15:05language was being proposed to the the

3:15:08the the language that we have right now.

3:15:10>> Okay. Uh through the chair, that's

3:15:12correct. And also, it's on the uh second

3:15:13page for bulk items. So, we have

3:15:16identified we wanted to clearly identify

3:15:19what is a bulk item. So, we listed it's

3:15:21on the second page is of ordinance

3:15:24551-05.

3:15:27We wanted to list out clearly what is a

3:15:29bulk item.

3:15:32Okay, Mr. Chairman, I have no more um

3:15:34questions. If if it's once we because

3:15:36this is a big piece of legislation, if

3:15:38we could show what is actually being is

3:15:41not allowed, that would help me

3:15:42tremendously so I can educate my

3:15:44population.

3:15:44>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Jones.

3:15:46Let me go to Councilman Sly.

3:15:48>> Uh thank you. Um

3:15:51I'm assuming I'm keeping everyone from

3:15:52lunch.

3:15:53>> Whatever. We'll get through it. Um thank

3:15:56you. And and I'm not on the committee,

3:15:58but we've talked a lot about this, so I

3:15:59wanted to just kind of swing by. Um,

3:16:01shortly after joining council, uh, the

3:16:04first person I ever made cry was a woman

3:16:08who was moving out of the neighborhood,

3:16:10she was renting. She called me with a

3:16:12Saab story about how she just had like

3:16:14one chest of drawers to pick up and they

3:16:16wouldn't take it cuz it wasn't bulk

3:16:17week. And it turned out that she had

3:16:19just put the entire contents of the

3:16:21house on the front lawn. And I yelled at

3:16:24her and she was like, "I'm not this kind

3:16:25of person." And I was like, "Well,

3:16:27apparently you are this kind of person

3:16:28because you did it." Anyway, uh I I

3:16:31start there because I there we all know

3:16:33that there's issues with people abusing

3:16:36this city service and we unfortunately

3:16:39have to be in the business of having

3:16:41rules and enforcement of those rules

3:16:44otherwise things can spiral out of

3:16:45control. But a lot of what we've talked

3:16:48about is trying to understand the

3:16:50difference between that and an arguably

3:16:53innocent uh or ignorant uh violation of

3:16:57the rules. people not knowing what they

3:16:59are and how we can it's some are very

3:17:01obvious but where is that sort of

3:17:03tipping point where this goes from

3:17:04something that we can sort of turn a

3:17:06blind eye to to something that we have

3:17:08to enforce. Um could you toggle back

3:17:10over to the the the list of all the kind

3:17:13of the outreach ideas?

3:17:16>> There was a uh

3:17:19there was the slide that said like the

3:17:20social media and all that kind of stuff.

3:17:23Um

3:17:24yeah. Um, so one one that I would like

3:17:28for us to weigh is if we could when

3:17:32people have to get their certificate of

3:17:35disclosure because they're purchasing a

3:17:37home in the city of Cleveland, whether

3:17:38it's owner occupied or renting, that we

3:17:40can include in that the waste

3:17:43guidelines. Uh cuz I think uh some of

3:17:46the instances that I encountered were

3:17:48people who were very new homeowners. And

3:17:51uh I'm not going to say it's going to be

3:17:52a cure all, but if doesn't line up

3:17:54easily with the uh annual outreach or

3:17:59social media post or something like

3:18:00that, maybe that's just a way that we

3:18:01can say like, well, you can't fully

3:18:03feain ignorance because like we gave it

3:18:05to you when you purchased the house. Um

3:18:08I had also in when uh to through the

3:18:10chair when we had discussed a lot of

3:18:12this previously um I'm interested still

3:18:15in understanding if there's any

3:18:17mechanisms for warnings. Um my office

3:18:22had prepared a kind of like a door

3:18:24hanger of of common uh quality of life

3:18:28things like you can't park on the front

3:18:29lawn, garbage cans have to go back to

3:18:31the back of your house, that kind of

3:18:32stuff. So, if we were just driving

3:18:34around the neighborhood, we could pull

3:18:35one of these out, check the box, put it

3:18:37on someone's door as like a, hey, before

3:18:39someone notices this, you know, and I

3:18:41I'm wondering if there's a way that we

3:18:43could do something similar to even just

3:18:44put on people's cans about like just a

3:18:47reminder of what the rules are, whether

3:18:48or not they're getting a ticket, just so

3:18:49we can kind But I I I guess the question

3:18:51would be, is there any warning mechanism

3:18:54in anything that's being proposed? Um,

3:18:56and then my next questions will be about

3:18:58contesting uh which I believe will be

3:19:00with you, Miss Brewster.

3:19:02through the chair to the councilman. I

3:19:03think one of the things that we wanted

3:19:04to try to do um if this legislation is

3:19:08passed as is is that was part of the

3:19:10communication was to include that

3:19:11warning those warnings through that

3:19:14>> to be able to have a mechanism for

3:19:15understand hey you did this normally you

3:19:19get a ticket for it. Um but you know

3:19:22that's kind of what we would have had in

3:19:23mind with the education piece.

3:19:25>> Okay. And and and just to clarify, for

3:19:27me at least, speaking personally, to me,

3:19:30that's something that can be used for a

3:19:32a minor like, hey, the week starts on

3:19:34Sunday. It's actually not bulk week.

3:19:36Just but not like I'm not looking for

3:19:38people who are putting the entire

3:19:39contents of a house

3:19:40>> on the tree lawn expecting us to pick it

3:19:43up to get like a a one-time warning. I

3:19:45think that that would be an

3:19:45overcorrection. Um the um

3:19:50can uh I think this was touched on

3:19:52before I Well, let's go there. Um, if

3:19:55someone gets a ticket, uh, can you I've

3:19:58understood the contesting portion has

3:20:00been through the clerk of courts because

3:20:01it was assigned over to the clerk of

3:20:03courts. Can you just let us know what

3:20:05the process is? If that's being done

3:20:06in-house, how do people contest? What

3:20:08are the timelines with that? What's kind

3:20:10of the points of consideration for

3:20:12whether or not something could be waved

3:20:14just just so we have that information?

3:20:16>> Uh, through the chair of the councilman,

3:20:17what we'll do is we'll take that process

3:20:19in house. Uh, that's a Mrs. Brewster, so

3:20:21that's is her responsibility. What we'll

3:20:24do is uh we extended the amount of time

3:20:26for a person to be able to file their um

3:20:29to contest from 20 days to 60 days. And

3:20:33we also want to make it more convenient.

3:20:35We'll do a virtual uh way that you can

3:20:38you can set your hearing virtually and

3:20:41we will do by monthly uh a uh in person

3:20:45at a recer on the west side and a recer

3:20:47on the east side. So that way if a

3:20:49person doesn't want to navigate a

3:20:51virtual hearing uh they can they can

3:20:53contest their uh citation in person and

3:20:55we'll do that once a month on twice a

3:20:58month on each side of town.

3:20:59>> Okay. Thank you. So through the chair

3:21:01the the mechanism will be a a virtual or

3:21:03in-person hearing. So I could I could

3:21:05log on and say sorry I thought the week

3:21:07started on Monday and it was bulk week.

3:21:09My bad. And and then that that's

3:21:11essentially the discretion of the

3:21:13division as to whether or not the uh

3:21:15fine is enforced.

3:21:16>> I threw the chair that's correct. Okay.

3:21:18Um,

3:21:20uh, through the chair, uh, one of my

3:21:23concerns has been and, uh, just we

3:21:25don't, so I have five members of my

3:21:28household and we get the same amount of

3:21:30real estate for garbage collection as

3:21:32say Councilman Star does. Um, can we

3:21:35just publicly since people are

3:21:36listening, uh, kind of reiterate what

3:21:38people can do if they what if they

3:21:40should need kind of an extra can? And

3:21:42I'm talking about they need an extra can

3:21:43cuz I got got a a resident who is the

3:21:48size of a linebacker and his four sons

3:21:50are all linebackers in high school and

3:21:51they they have like probably could

3:21:53easily fill up four garbage cans every

3:21:55week because these these boys, you know,

3:21:57eat like it's the end of the world. Uh

3:21:59so in circumstances like that, not that

3:22:01it's just a one-off thing, but what do

3:22:03people do if they need more garbage cans

3:22:06so that they're not having to leave

3:22:07things outside of the container? uh

3:22:08through the chair uh we encourage

3:22:10everybody to recycle but al ultimately

3:22:12they can place a reserves request uh

3:22:14through 311 and we will issue a uh

3:22:17second cart uh 64gallon cart. Okay.

3:22:20Thank you. Um through the chair, have

3:22:23there been any changes to the Ridge Road

3:22:25hours? I I only asked because someone

3:22:27called and and there could be a for

3:22:30whatever reason short staffing something

3:22:32happened. It was closed at a given time,

3:22:33but I want to make sure I I think

3:22:35anecdotally, so Councilman Kazy and I do

3:22:38our twice annual joint West Park

3:22:40dumpster day. Very successful. People

3:22:43love it. Uh, but I always kind of

3:22:45chuckle because people will drive

3:22:47something to the dumpster at Gunning Rec

3:22:49Center, but there's this like West Park

3:22:51mindset that like Ridge Road is like 4

3:22:54hours drive away when it's really only

3:22:5510 minutes down the road. Um, I've

3:22:58thought about doing like a PSA with you

3:23:00guys about like I'm taking my toilet to

3:23:03Ridge Road and like like you pull in,

3:23:05you pull up to here, you drive around,

3:23:06it's that easy. So, I don't know if

3:23:07that's something we could maybe kind of

3:23:08partner on. Um, but Ridge Road, could

3:23:11you just clarify the hours for

3:23:12everybody?

3:23:13>> Uh, through the chair, uh, Ridge Road is

3:23:15available for residential drop off. Each

3:23:18resident has the ability to to to drop

3:23:21off stuff at Rididge Road four times a

3:23:23year, uh, Monday through Saturday. Uh

3:23:26the hours are was it 8:00? I think 8 to

3:23:294. However, just we are very strict. Uh

3:23:34we do uh check IDs and we do also check

3:23:37um your vehicle. Uh for example, we we

3:23:41had we found we detect a significant

3:23:43amount of abuse. We have residents of

3:23:46the city of Cleveland who also operate

3:23:48commercial um businesses and they'll

3:23:51come in with Joe's roofing and dropping

3:23:53off roofing. The reason for the

3:23:55residential drop off is just for

3:23:57instance like you stated a person's

3:23:59doing a rehab project on their house or

3:24:01or they want to clean out a garage or

3:24:03clean out their parents uh house is not

3:24:05for any type of commercial operation.

3:24:07We're very strict on that. Our transfer

3:24:09station is probably the heart and the

3:24:11key of our operation. If we lose that,

3:24:13we won't be able to service residents.

3:24:16>> Okay. And and I'll I'll [snorts] we've

3:24:18talked about this, but something I've

3:24:19worried about is if you know someone

3:24:21drives a uh Ford Festiva, it's hard

3:24:24difficult for them to get the mattress

3:24:26into the Ford Fest Diva, so they might

3:24:28be for very reasonable reasons uh

3:24:31relying on a friend's pickup truck, but

3:24:33the you know, the the the pickup truck's

3:24:35not registered in Cleveland. Uh, some I

3:24:37maybe a compromise that I've mentioned

3:24:38that I'll follow back up with you on is

3:24:40figuring out and I don't I don't know if

3:24:41this would be broadly applicable across

3:24:42a city, but I know like the development

3:24:44corporation that serves the ward I

3:24:47represent has sort of like a branded

3:24:49truck and can we come up with like a uh

3:24:52a partnership program where people can

3:24:54make sure if it's a if it's a burden to

3:24:56get something to ridge road or two

3:24:58gunning for a dumpster day, can we kind

3:25:00of find something that's not going to

3:25:01open up the floodgates and allow now

3:25:03every roofer to be like, h it's I'm just

3:25:06borrowing this truck. I promise you. I

3:25:07live in the city of Cleveland. Um I can

3:25:09follow up with you on that offline if

3:25:10you

3:25:10>> through the chair. We do that currently.

3:25:12Uh so we have a partnerships with not

3:25:14for profofits throughout the city. Uh

3:25:16what happens is that not for profofit

3:25:18that often doing um clean up for the

3:25:21public. Uh we register the employees

3:25:23that they want to send and the vehicles.

3:25:25So they already have an account. So we

3:25:27already know who they are and they come

3:25:29as necessary and we keep track of them.

3:25:31>> Okay. Okay. Uh in the purpose of the the

3:25:33we do allow pickup trucks, but we do not

3:25:35allow any pickup trucks to have any

3:25:37commercial marking on them. And we also

3:25:40allow trailers, but the trailers need to

3:25:41be four uh 4 foot or smaller.

3:25:44>> Okay, perfect. Yeah, I'll follow up with

3:25:45you then to make sure I understand how

3:25:48to guide people towards that program. Um

3:25:50my last kind of comment and and maybe it

3:25:53forms into a question. Um, and I only

3:25:56bring it up because when people get a

3:25:59there were a number of times where

3:26:00people would get a citation and they're

3:26:01like, you know, the city's going to find

3:26:03me for this, but there's like garbage in

3:26:04the street from pickup day. This is my

3:26:07my theory is when we moved over to the

3:26:10automated collections and especially

3:26:12with all the recyclables having to be

3:26:14loose, uh, we end up with what I kind of

3:26:16call incidental litter, like nobody

3:26:18threw the piece of paper. It just sort

3:26:19of like got caught in the wind. And I

3:26:22know when I I walk my kids to and from

3:26:23school and I'll take like a little

3:26:25garbage grabber on Wednesdays usually

3:26:27and just sort of like pick up a couple

3:26:28things here and there. Uh is is there

3:26:31it's so it's something that I'd like to

3:26:34figure out and discuss cuz I have

3:26:35noticed that sometimes there is stuff

3:26:37left behind when the crews leave and if

3:26:40uh fortunately a lot of residents that

3:26:43I've noticed sort of just take it upon

3:26:45themselves to go get something. But, uh,

3:26:47I don't know what the rules are and what

3:26:49the protocols are are for the crews, but

3:26:51I I want to make sure that if people are

3:26:54putting something in the can, we're

3:26:55doing everything we can to get it into

3:26:56the truck knowing that there's wind and

3:26:58and elements and all of these things.

3:27:00But, um, but I recogn I don't think it's

3:27:03happening maliciously. I think it's just

3:27:05sort of happening because the can flies

3:27:08up and then a gust of wind comes and it

3:27:10grabs something and, you know, blows it

3:27:12down the street. Um, but thank you for

3:27:14bringing all this forward. But I know

3:27:15that this is something that we've been

3:27:16in uh a lot of discussion about and I

3:27:20appreciate all of your time and energy

3:27:22on it.

3:27:23>> Thank you.

3:27:26>> All right. Thank you, Councilman Slife.

3:27:28Um is there any other questions for the

3:27:30waste officials while we have them here?

3:27:34Um director, I want to appreciate you uh

3:27:37having your um team here and

3:27:40commissioner. Uh likewise, I really

3:27:42appreciate you having your team. Um,

3:27:44seeing no further questions, I hereby

3:27:46adjourn the municipal services property

3:27:48committee to the next call of the chair.

3:27:59[music]

3:28:06[music]

3:28:12>> [music]

3:28:19[music]

3:28:23>> It's your immigration status. Um for for

3:28:25work requirements, um you know, it's the

3:28:27same thing. Open that mail, you know,

3:28:29let's see what it's telling