2026-10-27 - Finance and Administration Committee

00:01We will call the meeting of the Finance and

00:05Administration Committee to order. Ms. Carter, would you please call the roll?

00:11Adeyasti.

00:12Here.

00:13Horton.

00:14Here.

00:15Osmer.

00:17Schrog.

00:17Here.

00:19Jensen.

00:19Here.

00:21All right, perfect. Thank you. Just a note, thank you to the members of the

00:24community that are here. For any folks that are

00:28watching online, either in real time or watch this later,

00:33there are opportunities to provide written feedback and comments to the committee

00:36on the work that we do, and those can be directed to the city clerk's office, and

00:40she'll ensure those are distributed to us appropriately.

00:45We will start with approval of the September 8th,

00:482026, minutes. I will note that I

00:52identified one correction that needed to be made to the minutes, and

00:56have informed the city clerk's office of that.

00:59So,

01:00were there any other comments or

01:03amendments that were necessary,

01:07or do I have a motion to approve?

01:10So moved.

01:11All right. Motion from Councilman Adeyasti. Is there a second?

01:14Second.

01:15Second from Councilman Horton. Ms. Carter, would you please call the roll?

01:19Horton.

01:20Aye.

01:21Osmer.

01:22Schrog.

01:23Aye.

01:24Adeyasti. Aye. Jensen.

01:26Aye. All right. The minutes stand approve as

01:29amended. So,

01:31we have a group of very distinguished folks here to share

01:35the perspectives on transit from the business community.

01:39So, Mr. Jones, I'll pass it over to you.

01:42Okay, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming out, too.

01:45So, if you would step over,

01:48Ben Vickers from the Chamber, Bob Newell,

01:51Erland Group, and Tyler Hart, correct?

01:54Yes.

01:54All right. Thank you.

01:57Tell us a little bit about yourselves.

01:59We've got some prepared questions for you as well, and just give us a brief

02:03update on what you're doing and...

02:05My name is Ben Vickers, and I'm the manager of business development for the

02:08Springfield Area Chamber of Commerce.

02:10I work projects, and I do business attraction, so site selection

02:14relationships,

02:15and relationships with businesses that are looking to expand in the community.

02:20Our team communicates with between 100 and 200 businesses on

02:24an annual basis to look for opportunities for them to grow, talk through issues

02:28that they're seeing in the community, and work with our partners at the city, City

02:31Utilities, and Greene County to eliminate any barriers to that growth.

02:36All right.

02:36I'm Bob Newell, executive vice president for the Erland Group.

02:39If you don't know who the Erland Group is, most people know who the Springfield

02:41Underground is. That's our flagship company.

02:45We also own the Frisco building

02:47there on East Chestnut. We're also in the quarrying business.

02:50So we own Radix Quarries, which our big quarry in town is on the west side of

02:54town now. We're also in Joplin and in Berryville, Arkansas.

02:58So we're not manufacturers

03:02per se, but we certainly support the manufacturing facility all through the

03:05Springfield Underground, and then we're also in Cold Zone.

03:07So we handle all the eggs for Happy Ake and for Vital Farms,

03:11the biggest facility that we have being over in Pic West.

03:14So that's a snapshot of who we are.

03:17I'm Tyler Hart. I'm the general manager of the Hilton Garden Inn there at Farmers

03:20Park.

03:21I've worked in hospitality for 25 years,

03:25and Hilton Garden Inn is part of the O'Reilly Hospitality portfolio of

03:28properties in this area.

03:31Okay, awesome. Well, I appreciate all three of you for being

03:35here today. I think Seth has done a really good job of preparing a panel

03:39that includes a pretty broad business interest, but

03:43a focus on manufacturing, distribution, and warehousing, and then

03:46retail, which are all three major components of our local economy.

03:50So,

03:51hopefully, you received a copy of the medium-term

03:55plan of ConnectSGF.

03:58I don't want to waste anyone's time.

04:00Do you all feel relatively comfortable with that, or would you like an overview

04:04of the content?

04:06I think I'm good with it.

04:07Awesome. Okay. Well, so then as Deputy Manager Jones noted,

04:11we have a list of questions that were developed by

04:14city staff with feedback from City Utilities. We'll run through those.

04:19Appreciate any and all thoughts that you have.

04:21And then I would just note for committee members, you're more than welcome if there

04:25are any

04:26tag-along questions or questions that come to mind that aren't

04:30listed here, please absolutely feel free to ask them.

04:34So,

04:36we'll just start with a high-level question, and then

04:40I'll open it up to the floor if any council members want to ask any

04:44specific question. But from each of your perspectives,

04:47what aspects of Springfield's current transit system are working well for your

04:51employees or employees of the organizations you represent, and

04:55do you see any gaps or challenges?

04:59You want me to start?

05:01Go ahead.

05:01So, selfishly, we got a stop added on Le Compte Road at

05:05the Springfield Underground, which was very much appreciated.

05:08So I think from that standpoint, it's a good thing.

05:10The fact that you're serving Pic East is a good thing.

05:14There's a couple things I think are lacking.

05:18In the manufacturing world, not everybody, but so many because of

05:22staffing shortages and whatnot, scheduling challenges, trying to attract workforce,

05:26we've moved to three 12s, okay? So when you've done that,

05:30most of those shifts go from 6:00 to 6:00, right?

05:33So,

05:35at least the schedule I found online is that the first bus starts rolling at 6:12

05:39a.m. So you're missing that early shift, and

05:42there's a lot of employers that have moved to that.

05:44I'm pretty sure McCormick has, EnerSys has.

05:47We certainly have in Cold Zone. So that's one big thing, just from a flat

05:50timing standpoint, you're missing that early shift.

05:53But for us, I think the biggest miss or

05:58gap in the system is the fact that PIC East is

06:02served but PIC West is not.

06:05So we're talking about, we have 220 employees in our organization, so

06:09I'm going to speak from my experience.

06:11A hundred of those employees work in PIC West.

06:14Those also happen to be the most vulnerable people in our population who,

06:18for whatever reason, have challenges with transportation, whether it be a criminal

06:22record that keeps them from driving

06:25or

06:25they're just not in a financial position to have it.

06:28Those are the folks that would rely on the transit system, and they don't have that

06:31option to be dropped off anywhere in PIC West.

06:36For better or worse, the county jail is also right across the street from us.

06:40It seems that there should be a stop in that area,

06:45simply for those folks who, we see it a lot where those folks get released,

06:49and then they literally just start walking.

06:52So

06:53it seems like there's an opportunity there for me.

06:54But from a workforce standpoint, I will say to me that's the biggest miss, is that

06:58we're not serving

07:00Partnership Industrial West.

07:01That was my main takeaway as well, and I would just dovetail into that.

07:06We are very appreciative that there is a bus route into PIC East.

07:08We get a lot of feedback from the manufacturing community in that

07:12park that they are grateful that it is there and also that it does

07:16not run at adequate times. As Bob touched on this a little bit, but the

07:21three 12 shifts we've seen a lot of, but we've also seen one

07:25manufacturer do three 12s, four 10s, and then

07:29also a weekend shift, and then a standard eight-hour

07:33workday

07:34all in the same plant, and that's basically three or four different shift types

07:37that they have available to their workers.

07:40And so

07:42I understand that it's difficult to receive a critical mass to justify a bus

07:46route, but we are seeing that in both PIC and PIC West.

07:50PIC West especially, I think whenever that transit study was completed

07:54in early 2024,

07:57that was before we had sold an additional 200 acres, and

08:01we've since had, I think, eight expansion projects in the park,

08:05probably adding 500 to 800 employees, including

08:08Coldzone as one of those projects.

08:10We've also had several expansions within the park, and

08:14I think whenever that study would've been completed, PIC West probably had

08:181,000 employees, and we're pushing 2,000 with some additional

08:22expansions on the pipeline. In addition,

08:25we've heard specifically from, and I

08:28want to be hesitant to call out specific employers, but

08:32Expedia specifically has 1,000 employees at the old airport

08:36terminal, which is just up the road.

08:38And they noticed a marked difference in their recruitment abilities for

08:42folks within their-- They have a 300-person call center

08:45that they like to recruit into as a

08:49starting point into the organization,

08:51and they have had several challenges with getting people to apply because there's

08:55no bus service out there. So just between Expedia and PIC

08:59West, which is not inclusive of all of the employers and all of the jobs

09:03in that region, in that node of town, we have over 3,000

09:07employees

09:08that

09:10don't currently have any access. The jail is also a problem.

09:14Excuse me. The jail also presents a different set of issues

09:18for the community.

09:21Just being in that district, there's a lot of walkers along Division,

09:24specifically walking back towards the core of Springfield,

09:28which creates safety issues. We've heard from

09:32several employers that the people will be released

09:36from the jail, and then will show up on the property and just kind of hang out

09:39until they can find a ride. So having more

09:43access through that component would also probably be

09:46helpful in our opinion.

09:48And I'll just jump in here real quick, Tyler.

09:50Also, keep in mind, we are real estate developers.

09:53I think you know we're working on the east side of town to develop the

09:57surface. But

09:58probably everyone knows in the room as well that the most desirable

10:02land within the city for industrial development is what we call Moonlight, which is

10:06west of Airport Boulevard. So we have 186 acres right now,

10:11and we are actively trying to purchase more land to the west,

10:15that we hope, anyway, will be the next industrial destination.

10:18So as you start planning towards the west,

10:22there's going to be more industrial development out that way.

10:26Sure. Our challenge in hospitality and well, retail too,

10:30is we have a lot of nights and

10:33weekends team members that are seeking

10:37access.

10:39In our particular case at the Hilton Garden Inn, we're on the

10:43southeast corner of the city on Glenstone and Republic, where the roundabout is.

10:46The closest stop is the Independence Walmart.

10:51So it's that last mile issue for my team members.

10:55We did have one that used the bus. She doesn't work with us anymore.

11:00But

11:03she wound up getting another job,

11:07because when talking to her, she explained just her

11:10journey from the Walmart to the hotel, and there's not

11:14good sidewalks on that area of town.

11:16You have to walk over the

11:1860 highway overpass.

11:21No sidewalks there either,

11:23and then getting across that roundabout and then down the hill to the hotel.

11:28So

11:31our hotel has about 63 employees. I did a little informal survey,

11:35and 13 team members that we have are non-drivers, so that's

11:39about 20%. Now, I can't say that

11:42speaks for the whole industry, but that's a good

11:45percentage. And in asking those team members, "Would you consider riding the

11:49bus?" They said it was that walk

11:52To the next stop. There's another stop on National and

11:56Republic, but it's even further.

11:58And then they also had issue with just the way the

12:02lines run. They said, "Is it going to take me all over the place

12:06before I need to get to where I need to go?"

12:09I have a lot of team members that work on the north side of town that are trying to

12:12get to the south side of town. So the

12:15diversions on the routes, they take issue with.

12:22Well, thank you. Your comments touched on several of the questions, so

12:26I'll open it up to my fellow committee members.

12:28Are there any of these questions or others that you'd like to dig into more?

12:34I don't have any specific ones, no.

12:37So I would have-- So

12:39the meat of this is how we would pay for any expansion.

12:43And as you may know,

12:45about 95% of the money-ish that goes into

12:49transit comes from non-transit sources, federal,

12:53state,

12:55enhanced utility rates. What do you think is the most

12:58palatable tax increase or revenue increase or

13:03fee increase that businesses would want to pay

13:07in order to have

13:09an enhanced service?

13:11Where would you direct us to?

13:14I don't have any specifics as to what I believe a

13:20rate increase should be. I just am not knowledgeable enough on that.

13:23But I would say that if you look at a market like Kansas City

13:27and what they've done with the streetcar, which is a free service, for example,

13:31a lot of that is federally funded. They also have a port

13:35authority that drives a lot of their economic development,

13:39and a lot of their extra revenues from that port authority are

13:43directed back into the streetcar.

13:44They also receive specific revenues for their downtown district,

13:48that type of thing. So I think that there are funding mechanisms I think that

13:53other communities use very successfully, and it makes sense.

13:57Springfield,

13:58I think our barrier is going to get back to the critical mass

14:02necessary in terms of

14:06the employment density, the population density, and trying to

14:09balance those things out. What I can tell you is that currently the

14:13alternative for employers who are looking to attract a segment of their

14:17population that currently does not have access to

14:21vehicles on a

14:23household basis to get to those employment opportunities

14:27is to figure out commuting patterns.

14:30And employers, their only alternative is to--

14:35For example, I think Enterprise has a commuter system

14:39that employers can sign up for that either they or the employees

14:43can pay for, where they will map out a commuter

14:46path where they will basically rent a van from Enterprise to go and

14:50pick up all the employees and then take them to the employer, which can cost

14:54hundreds of dollars a month per employee, depending on how it's

14:58structured.

15:00I think that that's a lot of logistics for an employer to go

15:03through for something that their employees might not buy that.

15:06It also does not solve the immediate

15:09barrier to participating in the workforce that is access to

15:13transportation. I think

15:16it is an ideal situation to have access to

15:20an employment opportunity by perhaps taking the bus, and then within the first

15:2430 days, in their first paycheck, they're able to move towards purchasing a vehicle

15:27and being more independent, and we can see more

15:31upward mobility from those employees.

15:33But right now, the alternative is

15:37a lot of case-by-case basis, out-of-pocket costs for the

15:41employer on things that might not even work and don't really benefit the

15:45community at large.

15:47As far as specific rate increases, can't speak to that.

15:50Yeah, I'm not sure I can either, Mayor Schrog.

15:52I

15:53think we all know there's sensitivity to tax increases in this community.

15:57I

15:59think it goes without saying this is a really difficult subject.

16:02I think you read a little bit, you know what the budget deficit is on this.

16:06So

16:07I joke, the first thing that popped in my head was a joke is like, "We're here to

16:10tell you what the problems are, not give you solutions." No, I'm just kidding.

16:14It's hard. This is hard stuff. But I do think

16:19the alternative, there's a safety component here, too.

16:22We have several employees that are riding bikes to work or scooters.

16:26I mean, several. Not just a few, we have several.

16:28So I think there's a safety component I failed to mention in my opening talks as

16:32well,

16:33but I'm sorry, I can't really answer your

16:36rate question.

16:39I unfortunately cannot either.

16:42As

16:43a follow along from that, I'm curious, Ben, you talked a little bit about this,

16:47but

16:48do you all have any sense of

16:52at what scale employers are having to carry

16:56costs to solve transportation issues to respond to their

17:00workforce needs,

17:02either anecdotal-

17:03Yeah

17:04... or sort of systemic analysis?

17:10It is such a case-by-case basis to employer, it would be really difficult to--

17:14A lot of employers have mentioned the

17:17Enterprise

17:23commuter program as a mechanism to try to get employees to work, but

17:26it's so difficult to sustain, they don't end up having

17:30interest in it.

17:33I think a lot of them have said, "We are having trouble."

17:38In Pic West and with employers in that area, they noticed

17:42a steep decline in their ability to try to recruit workers,

17:46specifically when the bus line to that part of town was removed.

17:51And that is the extent of their complaints.

17:56Yes, Councilman Adegbiyi.

17:58So maybe not necessarily for the panel, maybe a question for staff.

18:01I just did a little map of what the areas of town we're talking about, and

18:05we're way on the southeast, way on the northeast, way on the west side,

18:10and

18:11you guys articulated some of the

18:14issues that we are facing in those areas of town specifically, which

18:19completely understandable. My question maybe to Maurice

18:23and staff is,

18:25have we talked to, or do we have any panelists, or do we have any further anecdotal

18:29information, and back to Mayor Schrog's question, other employers that are

18:33maybe more centrally located within town or within our city that

18:37have similar employment scenarios, but maybe

18:41aren't as far reaching as the geographics that we just talked about?

18:45There are other panels planned.

18:46Okay. And within those panels, I think you're going to have a diversified group that will

18:49give you something more centrally located.

18:51Okay.

18:51And maybe they can answer that question.

18:52Thank you.

18:54To build on that a little further, maybe a hypothetical.

18:58So,

18:59transportation development districts are a pretty common tool that our

19:02community uses,

19:04not necessarily to fund transit services.

19:07If,

19:08for example, there was a really strong desire to

19:13resume service to Pic West, do you think there might be an

19:17opportunity to explore establishing

19:20a TDD or something like that as an overlay for that area,

19:24the revenues of which would help support that specific transit

19:28line?

19:30My understanding of TDD is that it functions best

19:34whenever there's a retail component that can generate sales tax to go back into the

19:38fund.

19:40And I think

19:42from

19:43the district of Pic West, and there's not enough

19:47retail in that district to sustain that.

19:50I think you would need to

19:51cast a much larger net to try to loop in some of the existing retail

19:56within that

19:58quadrant of the community,

20:00which we don't traditionally have a lot of.

20:02But I do think that there are probably opportunities in terms of our

20:06long-term economic development

20:09goals as a community, not

20:11in terms of driving retail and hotel development, and that type of thing, that

20:15could be leveraged if we had a broader strategy.

20:19Okay.

20:20I

20:22don't think the employers would

20:24immediately say no at face value. I think that that's something that in the

20:28long term, it would benefit their recruitment issues, and it would

20:32provide more people access to jobs.

20:34I would agree with that.

20:35Okay.

20:36And I can just speak to the recruitment issue, being hospitality, we struggle to

20:40find talent.

20:41Ever since the pandemic, right, it's just been an issue.

20:46So removing those barriers, if transit is an issue for people

20:50to get to work.

20:52I met with the International Institute of Southwest Missouri to try to partner

20:56with them. They partner with another one of our hotels on Kearney and

21:00Glenstone for job placement for people.

21:03Works out great. I wanted to do it at the Hilton Garden Inn, and they told me right

21:06out of the gate, "This is not a good location because of the lack of bus access."

21:10So,

21:11that tells me that I'm missing opportunities for new

21:15talent, just because of this

21:18issue.

21:20Could I ask a-

21:21Yes, Mayor Schrog

21:21... question? I don't know enough about the funding mechanism of a

21:25transportation district. Could it not be property tax based?

21:29Yeah, it could be.

21:30So it could be an enhanced property tax,

21:34the funding of which would go to pay for

21:38whatever you want to call it, transportation services.

21:41That is a mechanism.

21:43Does it require a vote of the property owners?

21:46Is that what it requires?

21:48Yeah. Basically, yeah.

21:50And then, so the airport, though, being owned by the city,

21:55Expedia wouldn't be participating in that unless they volun-- gave,

21:59like, a payment in lieu of taxes or volunteer contribution.

22:03That would-

22:04Am I thinking about that right?

22:05That would be my understanding. I would say

22:09property taxes depreciate quickly, and

22:12if that is your sole

22:16funding stream, that it might not be as stable

22:20in the long term without additional reinvestment.

22:22Okay.

22:24Which is part of the reason that retail is usually a successful

22:27aspect of any of these district types because it can generate

22:31sales tax on that additional retail.

22:34And I'll note, it may be helpful for you folks to understand,

22:39I absolutely appreciate you are not expected to provide

22:42solutions here. I'll note, in January,

22:46staff will be doing presentations to this body of all of the different

22:51options available for generating revenue to fund these

22:55types of activities. So,

22:57I'm sure TDDs will be discussed in both the benefits and the drawbacks

23:01that exist with utilizing those.

23:06I

23:08want to go back to some comments you made, Ben,

23:12and I think all three of you will have really good input on this.

23:16One of the critical elements, as you noted, and I think we're all aware of,

23:20is that there is that critical mass that's

23:23necessary for a transit line, especially a

23:27high-frequency transit line, to be successful and see the types of ridership

23:31that they need, whether that's residential units or hospitality

23:36locations and amenities.

23:39I'm curious what you see as opportunities for

23:43the city to leverage public-private partnerships to

23:46incentivize

23:49greater amounts of density of those types of developments

23:53along potential transit corridors.

24:00I think

24:02there's so many directions that that solution could go, right?

24:06I think that's the challenge.

24:08In some communities, for example, whenever a new

24:12employer is recruited, there will be a community benefit agreement

24:16that is put into place where the employer makes a contribution to a 501

24:20[c] [3] dedicated to a certain purpose.

24:23I assume that in this case, it would be transit-related.

24:27But in other communities, for example, that could be something along the lines of a

24:31daycare facility or the Downtown Association or whatever it is

24:35that has a community benefit component.

24:39I think that if in a public-private setting,

24:43if there is a, for example, a private landowner

24:46or a nonprofit that could help be the bridge between public and

24:50private,

24:51there would probably be a scenario where

24:54the city works alongside the nonprofit to work with the private

24:58landowner or the private developers who are taking on whatever project

25:02to try to figure out what the critical mass needs to be.

25:06And instead of facilitating only

25:09industrial use or only office use or only housing use, that we

25:14work together to find a more mixed-use component that could

25:17try to get to that critical mass if that's the problem that we're trying to solve

25:20for. And I think in this scenario, there's a lot

25:24of opportunities in the west side of town where we've got several

25:28properties that would be prime for development to understand what a

25:32mixed-use type of development that would help

25:35pull that critical mass in that direction and make ends meet

25:39for any kind of system would be a beneficial

25:43aspect.

25:45Yeah, he's going to answer that way better than I can.

25:48But I will say this,

25:50when I looked at the-- I forget the terminology.

25:53It was medium plan and then the long-range plan.

25:55Mm-hmm.

25:56And this is one man's opinion, and take that for what it's worth.

25:59But to me, when you're looking at expanding into Nixa,

26:02Ozark, to me, I'm not sure that makes sense.

26:05And when I think about that,

26:08when I think about a transit system, it should handle the urban core.

26:11And for as much of that is in our community, the urban core,

26:15to me, the direction should be way more about facilitating the workforce

26:20that is residing here in our city. To me, those are bedroom communities, and for

26:24the most part, you make a choice to live in one of those communities.

26:27And

26:28I'm just not sure expanding out 10, 15 miles away from

26:32our urban core makes sense for a bus transit. That's what I'd say.

26:36I would agree with that, and I think that it

26:39depends on the community that we're talking about.

26:42If we've got several employers who've moved to the 312s

26:46specifically because they have an easier time recruiting in rural communities,

26:50farmers who, for example, have a farm that they want to work on four days a week,

26:54and so three days a week, they spend in the factory, and they basically have two

26:57jobs in that component. And so you have a lot of workers who are commuting 45

27:01minutes or an hour into Springfield on

27:04that three-day basis. And so you're going to have a difficult time meeting that

27:08critical mass from that

27:10aspect of just finding enough people in, let's say, Monett,

27:15who are coming into Springfield on a daily basis to try to do that.

27:19I do think you would be better off to promote a higher density

27:23in

27:24corridors that already have transportation routes, and then connect those

27:27corridors to the employment centers that we have in Pic-West and

27:31others.

27:34Okay. Yeah, and I think just getting the ridership increased,

27:38I think if what we're talking about on the medium term and long term,

27:42I'm an advocate of the grid system, of the, I believe it was one of the

27:46ones in there,

27:48modified grid,

27:50that it's more bi-directional routes, so

27:53it's not as confusing to the rider.

27:56They should be able to go straight down Glenstone.

27:58If they stop at Division, they can change onto the Division bus and go down

28:01Division, right? So the more it becomes

28:05clean, I believe ridership will increase.

28:08And beyond everything else,

28:11a lot of the problems that are solved already in the plan is something I think

28:15that would be good is a sort of a marketing campaign on the buses.

28:19I've seen this in other cities where they demonstrate the environmental impact

28:23of riding the bus,

28:25the cost savings of riding the bus versus being a

28:29vehicle driver. So it becomes more attractive as sort of

28:33the right thing to do

28:35to take public transportation.

28:37Yeah.

28:37Thank you.

28:37If gas prices keep going up, we're going to all be riding the bus.

28:42Councilman Adi Yazi.

28:44Following up on the conversation about alpine communities.

28:49I live close enough to the urban core not to have to

28:54see that every day, but I've had the opportunity in the last, oh, three or four

28:57months to be out on the perimeter of our city at

29:01early

29:02and evening and otherwise. And it just seems to me

29:06that,

29:07yesterday I was coming... Where was I headed?

29:10I was headed

29:11east on Jane Road Freeway

29:15from

29:17way out west, and

29:20National Avenue

29:21at,

29:23what time was it? It was probably closer to 8:00, 7:45.

29:28There had to have been at least 100 cars backed up

29:32wanting to get off at National.

29:34Mm-hmm.

29:34Right.

29:35And I see that also coming in and out of Republic

29:40in the evening or the morning.

29:43But

29:44I get that those people choose to live where they go, and I get that we are a core

29:48community, we serve that, and that's part of our economy for them to come into

29:51town, right?

29:52I'm just wondering if there's a happy medium to that, and not necessarily reaching

29:56all the way out to that community, but maybe there's a conversation about

30:01the commuter lots that you get to a certain point, and from there

30:05you can then get into that urban core and make your way around.

30:09I just feel like there's maybe a happy medium between reaching all the way out 10

30:13or 15 miles versus finding a medium component of

30:17that.

30:17You could definitely be onto something there.

30:19The commuter lots make a lot of sense.

30:20I

30:22lived in Kansas City for nine years, and I lived in Liberty and Parkville, and I

30:25don't remember public transit coming all the way out to those communities to get

30:28folks downtown. So, I guess that's where I'm getting to.

30:32There were certainly commuter lots, and commutes were a lot longer in a larger city

30:36like that, too. But-

30:37If we did that and then didn't spend all the money that we're probably going to

30:41end up spending

30:43accommodating all the vehicles that continue to come in, and there's money that we

30:46spend on accommodating all those vehicles to make it more palatable,

30:50for sure. And so...

30:52Yeah.

30:54I think that's a good point. The Connect SGF, I'm sure you all

30:58picked up on this, was pretty clear that regional service is going to depend

31:02on the willingness and interest of those communities-

31:05Exactly

31:06... to participate and fund-

31:08Yeah

31:08... those services.

31:10But to Councilman Adelpiasi's point, maybe blending with some of

31:14your comments, if we look at some of those major employment centers, like the

31:17industrial growth at Republic, seeing the new industrial growth in

31:21Stratford, perhaps it makes sense to ensure those locations are connected within

31:25the system so that

31:27Springfield employees have access, or Springfield workers have

31:31opportunities to become employees there if they so

31:34desire.

31:36Going back to

31:38partnerships and funding, I want to throw out a

31:42hypothetical and see your interest.

31:45So last night, council heard

31:48a bill that was related to how the

31:52parking garages downtown were funded as a public-private partnership

31:55supporting development,

31:58not requiring on-site parking spaces in exchange for

32:01helping to fund the construction of the parking

32:05garages. Do you think that same sort of model could help

32:09support

32:11if there are improvements along the line?

32:13So

32:15this is a long question, I'm sorry.

32:16But

32:18one of the main items from medium-term Connect SGF

32:22is to establish a 15-minute bus line that serves the

32:25core of the community and sort of acts as a backbone for a lot of

32:29these other routes.

32:32That would necessarily come with some capital

32:36improvements that would need to be made to roadways.

32:38Could you see that same type of partnership where

32:42there's reduced

32:45development requirements, perhaps fewer parking spots or some others,

32:49in exchange for helping to fund the cost of those

32:53streetscape improvements?

32:57At face value, I would say yes. I think it depends on how the value

33:00proposition is presented to the employer.

33:03One approach that I could see working is if you do the

33:07math on a parking spot, each individual surface parking spot

33:11costs between 25 and $35,000.

33:15If you eliminate or reduce the parking minimum for an employer

33:19by X number of parking spots,

33:22that adds up very quickly. But I think that you would need to have a mechanism

33:26in place that would allow them to immediately turn around and see that

33:29there's value in investing in this component as well.

33:32At the same time,

33:36I had a city manager in my first job tell me that land's the one thing God

33:40ain't making no more of. So whenever we talk about

33:43maximizing the potential acreage of

33:46187-acre site out by the airport,

33:51if that site can accommodate

33:53X tens of thousands more square feet of industrial space,

33:57that allows somebody to create more jobs, but they do not have to take

34:01up that acreage with massive amounts of parking for each one

34:05of their employees. If that equation can be changed, and

34:09then employers like Bob can see the value.

34:11Now, as a quarry guy and somebody who's selling limestone, I don't know if Bob's

34:15going to like my response.

34:16Yeah.

34:17But less parking lots. But by the same token, I think

34:21the value proposition matters,

34:24and I think that the way that approach is brought to the employers

34:28would be the determining factor.

34:30It seems like that would be difficult to enforce just because of the different

34:33uses.

34:35I think there are certain businesses that their employees are going to drive no

34:38matter what, and then there's certain others that may be hospitality and

34:41healthcare, maybe you have a group that would use the public transit a little

34:45bit more. But

34:48to use O'Reilly Auto Parts, for example, just because it popped in my head, I just

34:52think

34:5399% of their employees are going to drive their vehicles.

34:57So

34:58I just think that'd be difficult to enforce, I guess.

35:01Or to adjudicate-

35:03Okay

35:04... for lack of the right term.

35:09The only thing I can say to that is sure, better access and

35:13higher frequency to get

35:15patrons to our hotels and restaurants is going to be an attractive thing to us.

35:20Okay.

35:22So do you see any benefits

35:25on the-- So we've focused a lot as a community on

35:30economic development opportunities related to tourism and bringing in

35:34external folks to spend dollars and support our economy.

35:37Do you see any benefits to an enhanced

35:41transit system as serving

35:44that tourism interest in any way?

35:47I think so, and that's a good point because as tourism increases, we

35:51have a lot of great people working very hard to bring as many people to this

35:55community as we can. We have a lot of great amenities here.

36:00If someone's staying downtown and wants to get to Bass Pro, yet they flew

36:04in,

36:06they could take the bus.

36:09So,

36:11it would be a benefit, I think, not only for the workforce, but to

36:15all the tourists that are coming in as well. Just another option.

36:18Whenever I travel to cities that have a transportation

36:22system, I utilize it.

36:24I don't want to spend all the money on Ubers and everything else. I get on the bus.

36:28It's just what I do. So,

36:31I can say the same about many of the tourists coming in.

36:35It's almost something you might expect whenever you're visiting a community.

36:39Sure.

36:39Yeah. Okay.

36:41Well, we are at 12:40.

36:44Are there any other questions from committee members?

36:51No, thank you.

36:52Okay. Then I might just wrap up with

36:55one last one.

36:57After reviewing the ConnectSGF medium-term

37:00recommendations,

37:02which of the proposals appear likely to address the

37:06needs that your company or your industry

37:10has? And do you have any questions or concerns that would

37:14remain?

37:17On the medium-term phase,

37:20there were

37:22five or six different maps in there, and so I'm having trouble visualizing.

37:25I want to make sure that I'm referencing the right one.

37:28I think at least in the long-term map, one of the aspects that it did show was a

37:32Kearney route that basically only connected Pick and

37:36Pick West by bus with several

37:39nodes in the middle

37:42around Commercial Street, I believe, and at the National intersection

37:46of... But basically, the route went along Kearney.

37:48I think that

37:50route alone is something that stood out to me as a,

37:54"Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. This mirrors what we had before,

37:58and it's where the employment hubs are going to." So I really liked that aspect of

38:02the plan. I'm not sure if that route was included in the

38:05medium-phase plan, but that was

38:08something that stood out to me as that is something that we absolutely need.

38:12A lot of the other routes that as I was mapping

38:16it out in my head

38:18of what is entailed in those neighborhoods, a lot of them are, it

38:22seemed to be residential to residential with some pockets of employment.

38:26But none of those pockets stood out to me as large of employment hubs

38:30as what you have in Pick and Pick West, candidly.

38:33I would echo it. That's still the one thing I

38:37think is missing, is

38:38Partnership Industrial West service there.

38:42I would also add the

38:43addition to everything east of 65 at the

38:47intersection of 65 and Chestnut with Costco and

38:51Menards and some of the retail development that we've seen out there, and some of

38:55the potential for office space. And

38:58I'm going to say this because Bob can't.

38:59But

39:00for example, the Frisco building, it's one of our largest office

39:04spaces in the community. It, I believe, previously had bus service.

39:08It does not currently, which I believe would limit any potential

39:11future

39:13employers that might occupy that space.

39:17I think it would limit their capacity to hire as well.

39:20But that district as a whole includes

39:243M, the Frisco building is one, but there's hundreds of employees

39:28at Menards, Frisco, excuse me, at Menards, Costco-

39:31Costco

39:32... and there's a lot of retail development headed in that direction.

39:34That's one area I would love the community to explore.

39:39Sure. There's the new Route 1 that goes right in front of the hotel, so that's

39:42great.

39:43But in looking at that, it goes straight

39:47downtown. Right? It diverts over to National and goes downtown.

39:51So again, while we'll have, if implemented, a

39:55better stop right in front of us,

39:58they'll still have to, let's say again, team members coming from the northeast side

40:02of Springfield to the southeast, they'll have to go all the

40:06way downtown, transfer at the station, then get all the way over to

40:10there. So there's not a direct line

40:14still.

40:15Okay.

40:16Well, thank you all. I guess any questions you have for

40:20us or feedback for us as we move through the next few months of

40:24this process?

40:26I'd just say what I said again. This is a tough subject.

40:28I don't envy what you guys are doing, but I appreciate what you guys are trying to

40:31do, truly. It's tough. Not an easy subject.

40:35I would echo that. Thank you so much for including us and for inviting us to speak

40:39on this. We are always happy to

40:42speak on any of these topics as long as we are continuing

40:46to eliminate barriers to workforce participation and promote a

40:50local environment that promotes job creation and investment and makes it

40:54easier for employers and for residences.

40:57Well said.

40:59I just want to thank everybody for their hard work that they've put into this so

41:03far. It does not go unnoticed.

41:05Thank you.

41:06Yeah. Thank you.

41:08That will conclude our panel. You folks are welcome to stick around if you

41:12would like to as we talk about some next steps, but appreciate your

41:16participation.

41:17If you'd like to eat.

41:18Thank you.

41:18Thank you.

41:21Okay.

41:23So, the next item we have is a

41:26follow-up on the city utilities

41:30request

41:32that we made at our previous meeting.

41:35So,

41:37I think the city clerk's office did a really good job of capturing all of

41:41the requests that we had made.

41:45I have a list here. I was going to run through just everything.

41:49Well, I might take a minute because I've lost quorum.

41:54I'll do a thing.

41:55Okay.

41:57Staff did a really good job of making a summary of the data

42:01requests that we had

42:04made of city utilities at the previous committee meeting.

42:08I want to walk through those, but

42:11first just

42:13refer back to the committee referral request form that put

42:17this topic in front of us.

42:20There have been some concerns raised by city

42:23utility staff that we may be exceeding the scope of that referral.

42:27So,

42:29I want to first walk through the referral itself, then walk through

42:33the list of requests that we made, and then have a discussion about

42:37if we need to modify or eliminate any of those requests

42:41or discuss how they may or may not

42:45align with the committee referral.

42:47So,

42:48the language in the referral request form, it has really

42:52two main charges for our committee.

42:56The first is to review the policy implications of the white paper that's

42:59being prepared,

43:01including community development thresholds, transit investment

43:05triggers, and broader neighborhood and environment

43:08considerations,

43:10with the end goal of developing a formal recommendation for council consideration.

43:14So, that's looking at

43:16really the policy environment in which the recommendations

43:20from the white paper

43:22are coming from. And then the second is evaluation of

43:26funding mechanisms and fiscal impacts necessary to implement the

43:30committee's recommendations.

43:32So, those are the two main charges that I

43:36saw from the committee referral request form.

43:39I want to make sure, are we in agreement

43:42on that section?

43:46Okay.

43:46Sounds good.

43:47So then, the items, and I apologize, I

43:51probably should have asked that a copy of this be made.

43:54But the items we requested from City Utilities at our last

43:58meeting

43:59was

44:01some more detailed cost estimates for the medium-term

44:05plan on the operations side,

44:09clarification on the micro transit cost,

44:14a better understanding of the capital costs and bus replacements.

44:18So, that was related to

44:20whether the bus replacement costs included in the medium-term

44:24plan included some already budgeted and

44:28planned for bus replacement cycles or if those were all new costs related

44:32to the medium-term plan.

44:36A chart that demonstrates the current deficit that the transit

44:40system is operating under.

44:44An overview of the federal and state funding

44:47programs that the programs currently rely on,

44:51or that the transit system currently relies on, and an understanding of

44:55how those may or may not be changing with

44:59state and federal administration priorities.

45:04Regional service exploration.

45:07The private micro mobility partnership discussion.

45:11So that was if we could co-locate

45:15scooters, bikes, that sort of thing at bus stops.

45:19And then feedback from bus operators, either existing

45:22information that CU staff could share with us or

45:26if they would be willing to facilitate a roundtable or that sort of thing.

45:32So,

45:34staff did a good job of summarizing those and sending

45:38those requests over to City Utilities.

45:41And then as I noted,

45:44City Utilities responded back with concerns

45:48that

45:49these data requests had exceeded the scope

45:53of that committee referral authority.

45:56So, looking at the policy environment and then under

46:00evaluation of funding mechanisms and the fiscal impacts

46:03of the medium-term plan.

46:06So, I want to open the floor up first to

46:11really just a discussion if we feel any of these

46:15requests were inconsistent or whether

46:18they're truly necessary to the work that we're

46:22charged with doing.

46:24Go ahead.

46:25Councilwoman Horton.

46:26So, most of the questions that

46:30the data request side

46:34pertains to the second

46:37request in the referral, which is evaluation of

46:41funding mechanisms. You won't be able to have that conversation

46:45unless you have the data.

46:47And so if we know what our

46:50baseline is,

46:52then

46:54we'll know where our starting point is and where perhaps we need

46:58to go. How will we know what we need to

47:01structure in terms of a funding mechanism if we don't have the

47:05baseline, which is...

47:08Let's see, one, two, three, four. Looks like it's about seven of those

47:11data points that we don't have, and if we don't know

47:15that,

47:17and

47:18we're not able to acquire that information, I don't know how

47:22we can fulfill the second part of the

47:25request of the referral.

47:28Okay.

47:30Yes, Councilman Adubisi.

47:32I would echo that. But I would also say

47:36that I think

47:38one of the conversations we had was reaching a little bit further into our

47:42stakeholder group, which is the bus drivers.

47:47That may be something that may or may not be necessary for

47:52this effort, this discussion. It'd be nice to have their feedback as to

47:56what works and what doesn't work, but maybe that is really more of a direct

48:00City Utilities operational scenario versus the need for us

48:04to know that. Although I see them as one of the stakeholders in this

48:07conversation, but maybe that's

48:09something we don't need.

48:14Okay.

48:17You mentioned to our panel earlier

48:20that staff will be making a presentation in

48:25January, and honestly,

48:28this CU request seems to be what would be a part of that

48:32presentation. What else could it be?

48:36Maybe I should ask staff, but I don't know what else we would be talking

48:40about unless we're talking about a baseline, unless we're talking about

48:44what already exists and understanding the numbers and the cost as they

48:48exist today on each of these measures.

48:52So again, what will staff be presenting if they're not

48:55presenting on the data request that we requested from CU?

49:00Yeah, I think

49:02from my perspective, that's a good question.

49:05The idea when we worked to lay out this timeline

49:09was first to establish,

49:14hear from interested parties who would be impacted

49:18by this, always trying to center ourselves in who we're

49:22serving. But then

49:24really work to understand where we're at right now, what are the

49:28cost drivers and the revenue sources, and then

49:32through the white paper work, look at

49:36medium term, what are we looking at costs and revenue

49:40sources so we can understand the deltas between all

49:44of that.

49:45With the idea that in January, staff would be

49:49presenting at a high level, not recommendations for how to

49:53fill those deltas if the time is ready for that,

49:58but rather to gain an understanding of here are all of the tools, whether

50:01it's a transportation development district, a public-private partnership,

50:05a sales or property tax increase. Here are all of the available

50:09options that you could use to chip away at that difference.

50:13And then set us up in February and March

50:17to complete the committee referral, make recommendations

50:21of which, if any, of the medium-term

50:24recommendations we would suggest implementing, and then also

50:28providing

50:30a recommended funding mechanism.

50:33So that was really the intention of how we

50:37staged this work. I guess,

50:40Mr. Jones, I might ask,

50:43I didn't see the concerns from CU directly.

50:47Were there any specific elements of these data requests that they pointed

50:51to as overly burdensome or

50:54incongruent? Oh, sorry, before I ask you that-

50:57Sure

50:57... Mayor Schrock.

50:59So

51:02my perspective differs. I believe that the meat of the

51:05research should come from the white paper.

51:09Now, I only received the white paper this morning, and I don't know if that's been

51:12received by everyone.

51:14It was just recently distributed.

51:16Just received. So I looked at it this morning.

51:19I had another meeting, so I haven't gone through it, but I felt like it did

51:22provide the numbers.

51:26But again, I haven't

51:28looked at it in detail. But in my opinion, the

51:31only items on this sheet that are within the referral

51:35are two, six, seven, 13, and 14.

51:39And it is my opinion the rest of them sit outside.

51:45That the referral is the review of the policy implications of the white paper,

51:49and then to look at funding mechanisms.

51:54But I say that, I want to say it as respectfully as possible, I have not

51:58studied the white paper to see if there are things that are missing

52:03in the white paper to determine how much

52:07funding gap is.

52:10That'd be my opinion.

52:16Thank you for that. Before we go on, I might

52:20reiterate my question. Were there any elements that were of particular

52:24concern to CU staff?

52:25No, I'm not speaking for City Utilities, but reading

52:29some of the response, it seems as though there's a lack of clarity.

52:33That you're looking for just a little more

52:36specific ideas about what you're looking for

52:40and what you want to accomplish.

52:44There's a lot of information there.

52:45We plan to present to you in January data to help you make an

52:49informed decision on coming up with some strategies around transit.

52:54I'm not certain that that's necessarily in line with the

52:57questions from what I can ascertain.

53:00I don't know that's a question really geared towards them, but from what I

53:04have read, it seems like there's a lack of clarity around what the ultimate goal

53:07is.

53:10That's just an opinion from me.

53:12Okay.

53:12So it's not them.

53:14No, thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for. Councilman Adel Yasi.

53:17Chair, I don't have a copy of what you guys are looking at with those numbers, but

53:21that's okay.

53:23If you could circulate that with the things that you believe are within the

53:27scope, that would be very, very helpful. Thank you.

53:29We'll circulate it as well, but I just wanted-

53:30Just the same thing?

53:31Oh, that's the only thing I have. Is that-

53:34I was looking at this

53:35That was not something you sent me as

53:38part of this. It's the appendix A that you sent to City Utilities'

53:42staff detailing the specific data requests.

53:45But responding to Mr. Jones's question or comment that City Utilities

53:49seems to be thinking about is

53:51whether or not, what's our ultimate goal?

53:54I believe the ultimate goal seemed fairly clear,

53:57which was back last year when Councilman

54:01Jensen spent some time on the dais discussing

54:05this particular issue was, as we reviewed and approved their

54:09budget last year.

54:12The goal was to build a community effort to solve

54:16the issue and not to put this all on City Utilities as a

54:20responsibility. This is a community issue to solve,

54:23and that the issue that we want to solve is the medium-term plan

54:27I think, am I mistaken? Is the goal of this to

54:32basically find a way to execute some version of the medium-term plan?

54:36Well, under the committee referral, it does talk about

54:41the implementation of Connect SGF.

54:44To the mayor's point, it talks

54:48specifically about,

54:50from my understanding, if and I misunderstand it, please correct me, but taking

54:54that medium-term plan, applying the transit white

54:58paper findings of

55:00those threshold triggers-

55:02Right

55:03... and then based off of that,

55:05making formal recommendations and then

55:10evaluation of funding mechanisms and fiscal impacts necessary to

55:14implement that. So I would maybe just caution that it's not-

55:18Not necessarily

55:18... implementing the medium-term plan-

55:21Got you. Yeah

55:21... implementing what is feasible.

55:23Feasible within that.

55:24And so,

55:25that's my understanding. Is that what you would say?

55:29Yeah, based on the triggers.

55:31Mm-hmm.

55:31Yes.

55:32So, I guess back to Mr. Jones, it just seems like

55:36that's fairly clear end goal. If they're not sure what

55:40that end goal is, that's pretty clear end goal.

55:45I respectfully say, but you just demonstrated that it's not very clear.

55:48Yeah.

55:48Because there's a misunderstanding there, and I think that's what they're trying to

55:52do. They want to provide you with the best information possible.

55:54But the question is, what is that information?

55:57And how does it help inform your making a decision?

56:00Again, I am not city utility, so I'm not speaking for

56:02them. I get it. Thank you.

56:04At some point, I'd love to just make a suggestion.

56:06Please.

56:07What if the committee were to thoroughly go through the

56:11white paper

56:13and see what of these things or enough of these things can be

56:16answered from the work done by the consultant in the white paper, and

56:20that would be basically a starting point

56:24to look at anything else because the white paper does list the

56:28delta, this is what's coming in, this is what this would cost.

56:32And so that would give

56:35some ideas. I don't know what a transportation district

56:39would yield every year.

56:42I don't know the difficulty of getting the landowners to sign up for

56:46that, but

56:50that would help. So I thought one of the best things that came out of the first

56:53meeting when I read the minutes was the notion of taxing rental

56:57cars at the airport to pay for a route to the airport.

57:01Now, what I don't know is how many cars get rented at the airport, what

57:05a route would cost. If it's $5 a

57:09car or $350 a car to pay that, I don't know.

57:14But those were the types of things that I think were,

57:18at least in my opinion, to come out of this is what are the different funding

57:22mechanisms? Is it a fee on every household in Springfield through

57:26the utility as a transit fee? Is it some kind of a

57:30fee on business? Is it take a sales tax vote to

57:34the public? Is it a property tax? What are the

57:38measures that would yield the money?

57:40Yeah.

57:40And what is the most palatable?

57:44That's what I believe the meat is because every time I talk to people about

57:47transit, and I always say to them, "Well, what service should we cut?"

57:51Or "What tax should we add to pay for that?" And they always say the same thing,

57:55"I don't know."

57:57Yeah.

57:57"You need to figure it out. I don't know." Just like they were very honest.

58:00Yeah.

58:00"I don't know."

58:01Yeah.

58:02That truly is the task before us.

58:05I guess maybe I

58:08would be interested

58:10if

58:12there are parts of this data request that

58:15are going to be included in the final white paper that we receive

58:19or that have been wrapped into it. I would be fine if

58:23CU would just say, "This will be included in the white paper."

58:29And then just noting any additional items that

58:33aren't within the scope of the white paper, but are a formal inquiry

58:37that this committee has submitted to them to answer.

58:40So some of the things about current operating and

58:43capital costs and expenditures

58:47may not be covered in the white paper, but are, to

58:51Councilwoman Horton's point, critical for us to understand where are we spending

58:54money right now

58:56within the system and how is it being spent, so we can know

59:01if we're looking at expanding service or

59:05adding new buses, we can understand the delta between

59:08now and in the future, which then necessarily

59:12informs the types of funding mechanisms we might look at

59:15exploring. Does that make sense?

59:21Are there any concerns with that? So, just requesting CU

59:24first go through this appendix and identify what's going to be

59:28included in the white paper, and then, thank you,

59:32providing a response back to us, and

59:35then we can discuss anything that isn't

59:38going to be covered and talk about whether it's necessary.

59:45Yeah.

59:45If I may.

59:46Yeah, please, Mr. Mayor.

59:47So,

59:49there's a couple things that I don't think are

59:53in CU's purview, and yet also in here.

59:56For example-

59:57Okay

59:58... number nine, regional service exploration.

60:01I can't find that in the referral,

60:05and that's not a responsibility of city utilities.

60:10So I don't know.

60:14Yeah, and I will note on that topic,

60:19when we discussed it with City Utilities, they presented it because one of the

60:22medium-term recommendations is that regional service.

60:26I had suggested that perhaps that work would

60:30be better as an elected official to elected official to start the

60:34conversation, and they seemed to offer some

60:38concerns that maybe cart before the horse, and had said that's

60:41something that we can go back and look into.

60:44So,

60:46I wouldn't necessarily mind if that wasn't something that

60:49was placed on their

60:52plates. But if it was something if I-

60:56remember the conversation and read the minutes properly, something they had kind of

60:59asked to hold and explore.

61:02Dishey, I know that micro mobility was brought up in the white

61:06paper, but the bus operator feedback would seem to me

61:10also to... I can't find anywhere in here where this would be

61:14something, and they couldn't say it was included in the white paper because I don't

61:17believe it's in the referral.

61:19Okay.

61:21Yeah. We just included them as a stakeholder in the group conversation.

61:25To hear from, thinking they might have good feedback.

61:27But we can certainly walk that back as well.

61:31Is it possible to keep the request that if they have any

61:34existing surveys or feedback or

61:37information that they could share that with us?

61:44My goal would be to get as many off their plate.

61:47Yeah.

61:48That was the purpose of the consultant

61:50was to be respectful of

61:54staff time.

61:57The City Utilities board participation,

62:01City Utilities staff couldn't say that or answer

62:05that.

62:06Mm-hmm.

62:07And the same thing with 15 and 16. So

62:11those things I would think would

62:13fall in the middle in between what's on the white paper and CU just saying

62:17it's on the white paper, and yet being something we want them to

62:22participate and answer.

62:23Maybe I might revise my request so that it's only if they're identified as a

62:27responsible party

62:29that

62:30they provide a response back. Because for council lunch

62:34timing, that

62:36is identified as something that is under our purview to take care of.

62:45So then maybe the only other

62:49three items that are outstanding that we'd requested, we've not talked about

62:53specifically is that item... I'm going to just scoot over

62:57here so you guys can see this as well.

63:00That item number three, the medium-term operating cost

63:04detail.

63:06So I imagine that's going to be covered in the white paper.

63:12So maybe we keep that in until we hear back from them.

63:16Item number five, that capital costs and bus replacement review.

63:21Again, I think that will be covered because it's talking about medium term.

63:27Number eight was a...

63:30I don't know if there's necessarily work they need to do on that, but that

63:34arose from a conversation about there's a proposed line in

63:38the medium-term plan for Grand to have a

63:42line along it east, west. And they had noted

63:46that

63:47the route proposed in the plan,

63:52current streetscapes don't allow for buses to turn

63:55appropriately along the route that they identified.

63:58So that was more just of a request of as they're looking

64:03at future

64:04transit lines or planning farther out into the future, if there could be

64:08greater coordination with public work staff to make sure we're

64:12incorporating those sort of design criteria into future

64:15streetscape projects. So that could probably be taken

64:19off unless anybody has a specific concern with it.

64:23No.

64:23I think it's taken off of this list, but still something that should

64:27be

64:29future-proofing as we move forward.

64:31Yeah.

64:37Okay. So then, yeah, I think that takes care.

64:40So we would keep

64:42items that have CU request two,

64:45three,

64:47five, six,

64:49seven,

64:5310, 13, and 14.

65:08Any-

65:09Seems a little bit different than what the mayor is requesting

65:13here. Look like

65:15three, five, and 10 are additions.

65:19But I guess, this to me, it just speaks to

65:27looking at the comparison of

65:31the benefit of having

65:35the mechanism that was proposed before this went to

65:38committee,

65:40how we incorporate

65:43the community

65:45into this conversation because to the extent that

65:49buy-in from our community

65:52for additional

65:54revenue streams for transit,

65:58to the extent that that buy-in is there, will sort of determine whether or

66:02not a lot of these middle-level

66:05recommendations get done. And so I don't know

66:08if

66:10you feel as though the committee

66:12mechanism is necessarily the most effective, or should we be

66:16steering

66:18in the direction to, or overlapping and bringing in more

66:22of the original proposal in terms of

66:26inviting more of the stakeholders to be a part of this

66:30conversation just like we have today.

66:32It's just one

66:34format, but multiple formats that

66:37allow for folks to come in, such as our

66:41employers and then others who are coming in to give feedback

66:45so that we can even take the temperature as to

66:51how successful we think we will be in terms of

66:55whatever the funding mechanism would be recommended

67:00I don't know if this work is needed first before we go

67:05to

67:07generate what public interest would be.

67:10I know the feedback that we get in terms of we need this, and we

67:14need that, and we need that. But the appetite is really

67:18who has the appetite to

67:21pay a higher fee or pay a higher tax.

67:24So that's something that I guess will come in another phase.

67:29This is the phase that we need to do the groundwork on

67:33perhaps, and then looking at

67:36how we can get a little bit more robust community

67:40engagement involved in this planning process

67:44as well.

67:45Yeah.

67:47My thoughts and understanding are that

67:50this is the referral request and the authority that we

67:54have.

67:56And

67:57I think

67:59we've built out

68:02a timeline of work

68:05that stays within this referral,

68:09while engaging some voices early on

68:13to get some initial information.

68:17To the mayor's point that you made

68:20earlier,

68:25when we're talking with folks in the community,

68:28perhaps without having a clear proposal

68:32of here's what we're wanting to do, here's how we would

68:36propose doing it, it's perhaps difficult to do

68:40that public engagement.

68:41Mm-hmm.

68:41Because everybody always wants something until you

68:45identify the cost associated with it, and then the conversation gets harder.

68:49So

68:50I can't answer which approach is better,

68:53engage as much of the community as early as possible and

68:57help them develop the solution or develop a

69:01solution and then rally the community around that.

69:05I don't know which one would yield better results.

69:10But I think we've laid out a good pathway to

69:15come up with a solution that is feasible,

69:20and then ideally could be taken to the community

69:24to build support, dependent on council support of moving that

69:28forward. I don't know if any other council members have

69:32thoughts about that.

69:33I mean, as long as we stay within the scope of the referral and just

69:37kind of seeing

69:40what type of end product

69:43or recommendation or what have you would come from there.

69:47Doing the background work I think is really, really important.

69:51But having the data, if we don't have the data, we don't have nothing.

69:55Yeah.

69:56Yeah. I mean, as I see it, we are completely in the fact-finding

70:00stage.

70:00Mm-hmm.

70:01And fact-finding includes hearing from businesses.

70:04I think

70:05to the city manager's comment,

70:08which one, early engagement, late engagement, I would say yes and,

70:13in that we just need to hear from the community as to what they think their needs

70:16are, much like the business community gave us some of the ridership

70:20issues that we may have. I mean, not bring in solutions, just, "Hey,

70:24can you tell us how it's working for you, how it's not working for you?"

70:29Fact-finding now,

70:31then

70:32I do think sitting down and having a productive work session on

70:37what are these options for, A, the routes, or B, the funding and all that.

70:41And then we go back out to the community and say, "Here's what we've determined.

70:44We found this information from here. We've got this information here.

70:47Here's what we're recommending," and kind of get some buy-in after that then.

70:51So I do think this is currently a fact-finding mission, not solution-driving.

70:55Yeah.

70:58Any other thoughts, comments?

71:05Then I suppose the last thing I would note,

71:09I think we've ended up at a good place on the data request.

71:13Hopefully, that gives some additional clarity, removes some of the burden from

71:17city utility staff

71:20to respond to our

71:22inquiries. The one thing I just want to note for the

71:25record is that I, along with Council

71:29Member Lee, sit on the board of the Ozarks Transportation

71:33Organization,

71:35and each year we adopt a unified planning

71:39and work program.

71:41And I took a look at that, and

71:45City Utilities is allocated $210,000

71:49a year for transit planning

71:52specifically,

71:54and some of the elements included within that are operational

71:58planning,

71:59transit fixed route and regional service analysis

72:02implementation, service planning, financial

72:06planning, and data collection and analysis.

72:10So

72:12I'm hopeful that that funding allows

72:16them to be responsive to the inquiries that we submit as

72:20a committee

72:22related to implementing the

72:27fiscally constrained and community responsive medium-term plan.

72:31So

72:34any final questions or comments?

72:37What is the anticipated deadline to getting information back

72:40from City Utility? Um-

72:43I didn't see that here, but it may be somewhere else.

72:46So it's not in here.

72:49It would really be helpful by our second meeting in

72:52January. That's when we had planned to start discuss...

72:56So the first meeting in January,

72:58we have tentatively scheduled to be

73:02a presentation of all the possible funding mechanisms.

73:06The second meeting in January was intended to be Okay,

73:10how do we align some of these

73:14options with the deltas that we know

73:17about?

73:20Obviously, the schedule we've built out anticipates a

73:24referral

73:26or a

73:27response from the committee going to the full council by the end of March.

73:33So it's an artificially imposed deadline, just trying to complete it this

73:36legislative session.

73:39If City Utilities identifies that they need additional time, we can

73:43certainly accommodate that and push out some of the work.

73:48So,

73:50I'd maybe ask them what is a reasonable deadline with this

73:53reduced list of data requests. What's a reasonable

73:57turnaround time?

73:59Unless anyone else has other thoughts.

74:02Do we have a panel again in November and December, or

74:06December-

74:06Yes ...

74:07is a no?

74:08November is going to be transit riders.

74:13And then December is

74:16scheduled to be that generations perspective.

74:19So seeking college

74:21or young adults,

74:23as well as elderly folks. Two groups that are very likely to

74:27participate in transit system, and who our community is seeing

74:31growing numbers of.

74:34And I guess maybe one final thought.

74:36I was thinking about this the other day in the shower, as I often

74:39do.

74:41And I realized we have a model

74:44of

74:46high-frequency bus service in our community, which is

74:50the Bearline that MSU operates. It's a 5 to 10-minute

74:54frequency,

74:56covers a large section of our downtown, and has

74:59incredible ridership numbers. So,

75:02I think that could potentially be

75:05not necessarily a model for how our system works, but could

75:08show what a fast, frequent, reliable

75:12transit service can mean in terms of utilization.

75:15So-

75:16Well, you could also use

75:18their geographic boundary,

75:21how many square miles or acres or whatever,

75:25and what's the cost, right? Just do a cost per acre or per

75:29mile of transit, just to see what

75:34their system is costing them. Essentially it is a contracted service that

75:38they procure.

75:39Yeah.

75:40And so, it'd be interesting to see what that level of service and that

75:44geographic boundary might look like cost-wise.

75:47Yeah. Mayor Schrog, I'm curious,

75:50would you see any value in potentially inviting

75:54somebody from MSU who oversees their Bearline operations

75:58to either speak with the committee or facilitate a

76:02discussion with CU staff or the city about

76:06how they run?

76:09Off the top of my head, no.

76:14In these conversations, these panels, I'm always nervous about

76:19getting people's expectation and hopes up, only to dash them with, "Now how do you

76:23think we should pay for it?"

76:24Yeah.

76:24I always feel like having those two things go together, almost as if they're

76:28yoked-

76:29Mm-hmm

76:29... is would you like this if it cost you this?

76:32Would you propose this would be paid by this?

76:36I

76:37just always fear that prospect of getting people to think, oh,

76:41if we talk about this, and we envision this, we can do this

76:44without any expectation of what it's going to cost.

76:47Mm-hmm.

76:48So I always caution that on something like a panel

76:51or

76:52a community feedback. Two

76:55things I will say to you.

77:00The only place in Springfield, Missouri where parking is

77:04paid is on the campus of Missouri State University.

77:07Mm-hmm.

77:07So that in and of itself sets an unrealistic expectation that

77:11anything they do

77:14can be transferable anywhere outside the bounds of campus,

77:18where parking is free and abundant everywhere.

77:20So I don't know the

77:25how well that would transfer. I think it's an apples to oranges

77:29thing. Just my opinion.

77:32Okay.

77:35On that note,

77:38for me, I wasn't thinking about the actual numbers of ridership as much as

77:42there's a fixed cost to run that system,

77:45and what does that fixed cost look like?

77:48Just to have some

77:50anecdotal understanding. It wasn't so much about the riders, the number of

77:54riders, or the usage or frequency, but just what does that

77:59kind of system run per mile per day, per year.

78:02Yeah. And they're a fare-free model.

78:04Yeah.

78:05So-

78:06There's a cost somewhere that could be easily discerned.

78:10I'll see if I can look into their budget

78:13and have that information disseminated to council.

78:20It could-

78:21It's a cost

78:23... it could be a student fee that they bear,

78:27which is separate from university expenditures, and I

78:30don't know where student fees land in the

78:33open records thing. I'm sure it's not a closed record, but just

78:37it could actually be very easy as it could be just...

78:40I don't know.

78:41Or it couldn't be.

78:42Yeah. I don't know.

78:44Okay. That's a good point. Thank you.

78:47Okay, any other

78:49topics to come before the council?

78:52Were we going to talk about the next meeting? November 3rd.

78:55It's November 10th.

78:56November 10th.

78:57Yes, and you should have already received a cancellation and a new

79:01meeting invite scheduled.

79:04So,

79:05all right. Well, with no other topics-

79:08Right alongside a Missouri State Lady Bears basketball game.

79:12Heck yeah. Let's go.

79:15Can I get a motion to adjourn?

79:17So moved.

79:18All right. Got a motion. Is there a second?

79:20Second.

79:20Second from Mayor Schrog. Ms. Carter, would you please call the roll?

79:25Cordon?

79:26Yes.

79:27Osmer?

79:28Schrog?

79:30No, on behalf of Councilman Hogg.

79:32Debiezi? Aye. And Jensen.

79:35Aye. All right. We are adjourned. Thank you, folks.