2026-09-08 - Finance and Administration Committee

00:04.41] Okay.

00:06.95] We will call this meeting to order at 12:02. Ms. Carter call the roll.

00:12.93] Horton? Hosmer?

00:15.81] Here.

00:15.83] Adegbayi? Here. Jensen?

00:18.00] Here.

00:19.66] All right. Before we start, I just, as usual, want to thank everybody for

00:23.31] attending. Thank you to our guest speakers.

00:26.22] Excited for what you have to share with us, and then members of the media, thank

00:30.33] you for being here. So,

00:32.70] just a note for anybody that's watching online, we do always offer opportunities

00:37.98] for comment at our committee meetings through written formats, either on comment

00:42.84] cards here in the meeting room, or you can send an email to

00:47.43] [email protected], and that information will get shared over to us.

00:52.14] And then, this will be the last time that I do it, but please know that my

00:56.04] gratitude continues. Thank you to the city clerk's office and the PIO office for

01:00.12] streaming and recording these meetings.

01:02.31] Since we hold these during the day, it's oftentimes hard for folks who may care

01:06.45] about an issue to attend our committee meetings, so it's a meaningful opportunity

01:10.77] for them to stay informed. So with that, we have consideration of the August 4th

01:16.50] 2026 minutes, which were shared with us previously, and a copy of which are

01:20.97] provided at our seats. Is there any discussion or amendments

01:27.36] on the minutes as presented or a motion to approve?

01:32.70] Motion to approve.

01:33.96] I have a motion to approve from Councilman Adegbayi. Second from Hosmer.

01:38.46] Any discussion? Ms. Carter, please call the roll.

01:41.55] Hosmer?

01:42.21] Aye.

01:42.63] Adegbayi? Aye. Horton? Jensen?

01:45.84] Aye. The minutes are approved. All right.

01:48.66] With that, we'll get straight into the meat of it. Deputy State Manager Jones.

01:52.47] Absolutely. Thank you. Good afternoon or good morning to you.

01:56.55] For our next topic is going to be the Connect SGF Transit Study Medium Term

02:00.21] Recommendation presentations. I'm going to turn it over to Kelly Turner-

02:03.30] Sure

02:03.51] ... director of Transit for City Utilities to kind of walk us through.

02:09.87] Thank you. So,

02:12.48] we were asked last week to make some time to come over and visit with you all today

02:17.67] regarding the medium-term scenario presented in the Connect SGF study.

02:24.18] And so by way of introductions, I'm Kelly Turner.

02:27.69] I'm our vice president of Customer Operations and Communications at City Utilities.

02:32.07] Formerly, I was the transit director at City Utilities, and so I have that

02:35.67] background. I have with me here today Matt Crawford, who's our current director of

02:39.84] Transit. I think you all know him. Maybe he was with you even last month, for the

02:43.17] same committee. So, thank you for having us here with you today.

02:48.57] I'm going to kick us off a little bit, and then I'm going to turn it over to Matt

02:51.27] for some of the technical aspects of it, and then I'll wrap us up at the end.

02:57.24] So Connect SGF, that was really

03:01.11] part of our response to the cities for SGF

03:06.81] plan and endeavor that you all undertook.

03:10.05] And so as you all looked at a new comprehensive plan, it had been some time since

03:14.76] we had really done a service analysis and look at future scenario, future state

03:20.67] of the transit system. So we worked with a consultant.

03:24.72] We began that effort in September of 2022, so it's a little bit dated

03:30.63] even yet. We worked through the remainder of '22, all of

03:36.00] '23, and then really wrapped it up by the end of 2023, and then had our

03:40.65] presentations at the beginning of 2024.

03:43.65] We did present to our board and to city council, the

03:49.50] results of that study, of that plan.

03:53.70] You may remember, and Matt will talk about this a little bit, the plan did have

03:58.05] some near-term or short-term scenario recommendations.

04:02.64] And Matt will talk about what we've been able to incorporate from those

04:05.73] recommendations and even beyond some of those recommendations.

04:09.12] I think it's always important when we talk about this effort that we talk about the

04:12.90] public engagement effort, that it wasn't just developed in a vacuum, that there was

04:17.43] a pretty robust public engagement effort that went along with it.

04:21.18] We had open houses, we had community surveys, stakeholder interviews.

04:26.95] We had a steering committee that had several meetings, and then we had a public

04:31.71] open house effort when we actually implemented those near-term changes.

04:37.59] So that kind of sets the stage for what Connect SGF was.

04:41.74] And then I'm going to let Matt talk about the improvements and implementations that

04:46.35] we've made in the near term and then also the medium-term recommendations.

04:52.89] Kelly, thank you, council, for having us over.

04:57.84] So when we got the study back and we put it through

05:02.40] a review with the board and with council,

05:07.59] we were trying to stay true to the vision.

05:09.30] There were seven vision statements in that, and the first and really the only one

05:13.99] that had priority above all the others was that we continue to provide service for

05:18.15] those who had come to rely on transit.

05:22.29] In doing so, one of the things that was brought forward in the study is how we

05:27.99] aligned our routes. Transit can be difficult to understand, and it can be difficult

05:33.51] to use. It takes a little bit to learn how to use transit.

05:37.92] But when you look at the map, it's a little bit easier if you go out on one

05:43.83] line and you come back in on the same line.

05:46.26] So if we go out on Glenstone, we come back on Glenstone, and we call the line the

05:50.10] Glenstone Line 5, Glenstone Blue, it makes a little more sense.

05:54.75] So route alignment was really important, and we took the time following the study

05:58.89] to get routes aligned more appropriately.

06:03.57] We also looked at our service hours, and we looked at areas where we didn't have

06:08.43] much ridership. And really, the last hour of the day,

06:13.23] between 10:00 to 11:00, we had very little ridership.

06:16.44] On some routes, we commonly didn't have any passengers on that very last trip

06:21.93] throughout the week. And so we used to go to 11:00, and we pulled back that end of

06:27.27] day to 10:00. It allowed us to recover a few hours to redistribute on the system.

06:33.54] We also looked at Sunday, and we had very low ridership on Sunday, in particular

06:37.83] after 3:00, with one very specific exception.

06:42.90] But we had very low ridership after 3:00 on Sundays.

06:45.78] We were able to pull some service back, shorten our day to 8:00 to 5:00 on four

06:50.49] routes, and then we were able to redistribute some of those hours of service as

06:54.63] well.

06:59.06] So

07:02.37] one of the main things that we were able to get out of this, the utility agreed to

07:07.32] increase our service deployment by 29 hours a week, and that is not insignificant.

07:13.85] That's adding another bus operator to the system.

07:19.95] It shows an investment in our service.

07:25.29] What we were able to do with the hours of service then, we were able to take the

07:29.43] service that we run on Monday through Friday, and we were able to put those same

07:35.43] routes in service on Saturday. So now our service,

07:41.25] kind of towards one of the vision statements of the study, is to

07:46.89] make the service look the same in terms of the routes being provided from Monday

07:50.94] through Saturday.

07:54.27] And in those additional 29 hours of service in the short term

07:59.43] scenario, it had a recommendation of adding 30-minute service to the Line 3.

08:05.52] The Line 3 only ran at the top of the hour.

08:08.70] We had a second line, the Line 9, that ran at the bottom side of the hour.

08:13.14] And so we were able to take the additional service and the hours that we were

08:18.15] distributing to other portions of the system, and we were able to take the

08:23.10] frequency of those two lines and get them up to 30-minute service, which I think

08:27.42] was a huge

08:30.06] improvement on our system. It makes everything line up at the transit center.

08:34.92] It puts the services distributed equally across the town, across the

08:40.02] community, and it

08:43.53] did one more really great thing for us, and I love to tell people this: It made our

08:48.15] system scalable. When everything is equal at the transit center, and the

08:54.27] services that don't touch the transit center are also equal to themselves,

08:57.99] everything is scalable. So We know what we have going on Monday through Friday

09:04.02] with 30-minute service. We know that on Saturday we have hourly service, and then

09:09.06] Sunday has a weekend service. And if there were ever an opportunity to do

09:15.06] something with that, we know what that looks like.

09:17.85] It looks like what our Saturday service currently looks like.

09:20.73] So there are opportunities to scale the system the way it's designed now, and I

09:24.90] don't think it was really as possible in the previous setup before

09:30.66] November of 2024.

09:36.69] So the system has more route efficiency and intuitiveness.

09:40.20] We've got a standard service timeframe from

09:47.22] Monday through Saturday. And then one of the things that we did for recruitment,

09:53.46] at my request, was we changed our service on Christmas and Thanksgiving.

09:57.90] We actually, for the first time in anybody's recollection, we do not provide

10:02.55] service on those days. That was one thing that just made it nearly impossible to

10:08.13] hire bus operators. It was so hard to say, "We can't guarantee you any particular

10:13.86] holiday off in a year."

10:18.63] Additional to the short-term, we reduced our fares.

10:22.32] There were several considerations on the table.

10:25.08] We reduced our fares by roughly 20%.

10:29.46] We also took the opportunity to implement some new technology, and that

10:35.16] technology allows our customers better access to an app.

10:39.48] It looks very similar to our website, and it allows our paratransit customers

10:44.10] access to a customer portal, which allows them better scheduling availability on

10:49.86] the paratransit system.

10:54.63] So in the medium-term scenario,

10:58.47] the study

11:02.16] recommends-- So we talked a little bit what our previous system looked like, and

11:07.20] we've expanded the Line 9 to 30-minute service, which is something that came out of

11:13.23] the medium-term scenario. It was one of those

11:17.76] grabs that we just thought was necessary. Like I said, it made the system scalable.

11:25.35] The medium-term scenario also asked us to combine the Line 2 and the Line 12 and

11:30.57] create a short headway in the middle of it, creating 15-minute

11:35.16] service.

11:38.52] We had to sit down and really study this and take a look at it.

11:42.60] It reconfigures the Line 2 and shortens it on the north side, and it extends

11:48.45] out the Line 12 on the south side, creating more of a 40-minute segment on

11:54.48] the north side and an over 60-minute, probably close to 80-minute segment on the

12:00.27] south side. So offsetting the time at the transit center from the rest of the

12:04.29] routes, but also adding a shortened line that would go somewhere around Mercy on

12:10.11] National and then up to Boonville and Commercial.

12:15.18] And then we would run that on the offsetting half hour, and that would create a

12:20.49] 15-minute headway. That would involve adding a couple more buses.

12:26.46] It also suggests that we run our weekday routes on Saturday and Sunday.

12:30.72] We've already been running the weekday routes on Saturday.

12:34.38] But then to make the system

12:36.96] seem very cohesive and all in one, adding our weekday route on Sunday, that would

12:41.16] be,

12:42.78] at minimum, doubling the service that we have on Sunday, potentially quadrupling

12:46.86] the service that we have on Sunday currently, just to run the buses one hour for

12:50.61] the full slate of time.

12:53.85] There's also a new Grand Street route that is recommended, and that would have

12:59.61] some straight line that connects at the transit center, east to west arterial,

13:04.65] using Grand Street as the main trunk.

13:07.62] And then there are the much-discussed regional-type services to connect Springfield

13:12.96] to Republic, Nixa, and Ozark, which would obviously involve some form of funding

13:17.94] from those communities.

13:25.17] To kind of address something in this list,

13:28.38] the scenario has combining Lines

13:34.35] 2 and 12. Since we've made changes in November of 2024 to current date,

13:40.41] ridership patterns have changed since then.

13:44.73] Our Line 2, prior to the study, throughout the study, was very strong.

13:50.76] Ridership is always the strongest, but it is waning, and our Line 14 is increasing.

13:56.70] Our Line 3 is exploding. Line 3 serves OTC and the eastern

14:03.12] portion of the community. Line 2 serves the northeast, but more

14:08.91] through the Boonville corridor, if you just draw a straight line to Kearney, it

14:13.41] serves that area, and up north in Norton, or on Norton, just north of I-44.

14:20.97] And if we think about that, the ridership has changed.

14:26.31] We really ought to be looking at combining Line

14:29.40] 3 with the 12 instead of the Line 2. So there have already been some ridership

14:34.14] changes. Also, when we look at Grand Street, there are a few things

14:39.69] that our consultant has put in the plan,

14:44.61] and the first thing that I'm thinking is you cannot make that maneuver driving a

14:50.25] 35-foot bus with the

14:54.03] intersection and some of the traffic-calming things that we have going on.

14:57.63] I think all those things are great.

14:59.09] We just have to really get in and design routes that are drivable for a fixed-route

15:05.07] bus that is 128 inches wide mirror to mirror, or over 108 inches,

15:11.01] or right at 108 inches wide. So we really have to think about a lot of those

15:15.90] things. We also have to consider ADA accessibility and public right-of-way

15:20.97] accessibility guidelines, or PROWAG.

15:23.43] So there's a lot of things that go into the routing of a new line,

15:29.40] and then also changing current routes that we have.

15:35.40] Also noted in the medium-term scenario is that there would be

15:41.16] new services deployed. Microtransit is still

15:46.62] considered a fad effort in transit.

15:49.89] It's still, in terms of how transit is operated, considered to be in its infancy.

15:55.41] Microtransit is a premium

16:00.03] on-demand service. It is something that is, you call and schedule your ride.

16:05.70] It is dispatched.

16:08.64] You pay a premium for the service. You charge extra for the service.

16:14.76] And typically, the way it was designed in the study and how it's handled in

16:20.43] many communities, you'd put the city into quadrants, and you would

16:26.13] geocode or geofence those quadrants, and a customer that lives in those

16:31.92] quadrants could call up and ask for an on-demand microtransit ride, and they would

16:37.38] get that ride either somewhere else within that quadrant

16:42.42] or to the fixed-route system. That fixed-route system would allow them access to

16:47.40] all the services across the city. That would be a first-mile scenario, and then the

16:53.19] last mile would be, I could pick up

16:56.73] microtransit on the other side of the system and get where I'm going if it's not

17:01.29] readily accessible in the system.

17:04.74] Not everybody our size is doing microtransit.

17:08.04] As a matter of fact, speaking with

17:11.79] our regional FTA office last week, if we were to consider microtransit, we would

17:17.76] be one of the smallest agencies actually implementing that kind of service.

17:25.29] For us, that would involve buying

17:29.40] at least four more vehicles. Anytime you buy three or more vehicles, you're always

17:33.63] looking to buy one additional so that you have a

17:39.69] spare ratio of vehicles. So there's additional cost there.

17:44.73] We also would look at if we were to consider microtransit, we would have to

17:48.93] consider some kind of contract service. We would want to look at that.

17:53.25] We could handle it with our staff. We have the capabilities.

17:56.67] We'd have to hire up a little bit in terms of bus operators and our supervisory

18:02.28] staff. We'd have to invest in a little bit of technology, but it is capable.

18:06.94] It's something that we can do. But we'd also want to consider what a contract

18:11.85] service for this might look like. In the past, we've considered contract services

18:15.93] with taxis, with taxi services, with OATS, with Missouri State, what any of those

18:20.97] things look like. And we would continue to look at those kind of options.

18:26.13] But None of those have panned out for us to date, but not outside the

18:31.87] realm of possibilities specifically for this kind of service.

18:35.29] And also one of the key achievements in a medium-term would be that we would

18:40.30] improve travel times. A lot of people want to see transit

18:45.64] compete on travel time with driving a vehicle.

18:50.17] I just don't know that I personally believe in Springfield that that is going to be

18:53.95] possible. But we can make improvements by having...

18:57.52] If we had more frequent service or it was designed in such a way you could do

19:03.37] that, there are some connection points that could be made out on the system that

19:08.17] might increase those travel times, but we'd have to look at

19:11.71] the options that would help with that.

19:14.02] There are also in the study some comments to

19:19.78] streamline line six and line three that would help improve some of those.

19:26.08] I believe I'm going to hand it back to you, sir.

19:27.41] Great.

19:29.02] Thanks, Matt. You have a question?

19:31.45] Yeah, before you switch off-

19:32.65] Yeah

19:33.05] ... if I may, Chair.

19:34.52] Yeah.

19:36.40] I think you... Did you skip the regional discussion,

19:40.15] or is that coming up later?

19:41.56] That's pretty much all we have on the regional discussion.

19:45.04] I'd be happy to field whatever question you might have.

19:48.52] Okay.

19:50.53] And then on the micro mobility, I mean, it just sure seems that over time and as

19:56.53] time further passes, that may or may not be able to be used by the subscription

20:02.20] base or ride-share types of

20:05.47] com- That just didn't exist in its prevalency early on.

20:09.55] So I didn't know if that's a transition you guys are seeing or the industry's

20:12.37] seeing, or is that still a separate system altogether?

20:16.06] They're

20:18.28] kind of melting together in a lot of agencies.

20:20.92] I know Kansas City is committed to continuing to provide micro transit, but

20:26.29] they've had it in two or three different forms, I believe, since I've been in

20:32.29] the transit realm. But they're trying to keep it going, but there's not nearly the

20:37.54] discussion around it right now as there was 10 years ago even.

20:43.06] The interest in micro transit seems to be waning.

20:47.23] Yeah, whenever Uber first came on the scene, there were several agencies that were

20:52.24] having discussions with how could they partner with Uber to provide

20:58.12] that, and then that kind of faded. I think that there were some

21:05.14] issues with accessibility and ensuring that every vehicle might have proper

21:09.67] accessibility for persons that were disabled and things like that, and so that kind

21:15.13] of went away. And then, like Matt said, we've seen...

21:19.54] I just read about a community in North Carolina that was trying to go full micro

21:24.19] transit and eliminate their fixed route.

21:26.00] And so I think a lot of it is still test bed type stuff right now.

21:31.90] Thank you.

21:33.76] So, we want to talk a little about cost, and these were the cost projections that

21:39.69] the consultant provided

21:42.69] back during the study. So these are not current numbers now even.

21:48.19] But

21:49.72] there is certainly an additional cost to this midterm scenario.

21:56.71] And really what we asked for in this study was a medium-term scenario that

22:02.68] was kind of a step change, more transit service than we have now, and then a

22:07.69] long-term scenario that was even a greater step change.

22:11.65] And so

22:13.33] I think roughly, and some of this depends on the deployment of micro transit,

22:17.35] depends on what regional service might actually look like, but roughly the midterm

22:21.83] was about 50% more service than what we currently have.

22:26.14] So as you looked at

22:28.93] additional routes, as you looked at greater frequency, combining some routes, and

22:33.88] then perhaps micro transit and a regional service.

22:36.52] And so, of course, there's more cost.

22:39.76] To give you some perspective just where we've come from, the 2022 numbers

22:45.52] until now. So our 2026,

22:49.78] so the deficit from funding that CU locally funds was right at $10 million, and

22:55.75] we're projecting that again for 2027.

22:58.39] So going to the medium-term right now, as the best information we have, we would

23:02.83] estimate about another $8 or $9 million in local funds that would have to make up

23:08.47] that gap.

23:13.60] So, kind of in conclusion, like we said, this provided a picture of a step change

23:18.73] in service beyond what we currently provide.

23:22.78] To the question about regional transit,

23:26.41] I think that's so hard to figure out.

23:28.99] Without further investigation, it's really hard to figure out what each individual

23:32.98] community that we might provide that service to wants it to look like.

23:37.15] What kind of vehicle? What kind of frequency?

23:41.02] Is that seven days a week? Is it five days a week?

23:44.44] Certain times of the day. So I think that there's a big unknown on that end of it

23:49.69] that we would have to dig into further.

23:52.42] So as we look at where we might go from here, we feel really good about the

23:57.88] short-term recommendation or the short-term changes that we implemented.

24:01.91] We like the performance that that's provided for us.

24:05.65] We've heard good things from our customers, and we think that when you look at

24:10.21] communities like ours, our system stacks up really well, and we're proud of the

24:14.86] service we provide. But like we've always said,

24:20.17] if this community prioritizes more transit service, different transit service, as

24:26.20] long as there's a funding solution for that, we stand ready to support whatever

24:31.99] level of transit service that the community prioritizes.

24:34.78] And so this is essentially a picture of what that might look like,

24:40.93] a step change in service from what we heard from all that public engagement that we

24:46.24] talked about at the beginning, those community surveys, those focus groups, those

24:50.86] stakeholder groups. This is a picture of what it might look like.

24:54.01] I don't think we should look at it necessarily as a prescriptive solution

25:00.61] of when that time comes, what it might look like, but it's more directionally

25:05.14] correct and things that we should consider as we would look at the future of

25:09.94] additional transit investments.

25:11.30] And then that leads to really the last bullet is, as you all well know, we are

25:15.91] currently partnering together with a consultant to look at an abbreviated study or

25:21.82] a white paper on what are those

25:27.55] community fundamentals, community characteristics

25:32.44] that would then say, as a community, we should revisit if it's time for additional

25:38.11] transit investment, transit expansion.

25:40.39] And so that's something I think that's come out of some of the discussions that you

25:44.50] all had, and as we visited with the city about how we can come up with that

25:50.68] document, that kind of list of, I think one word that was used was trigger points,

25:55.18] that would say, "Oh, when our community looks like this, then logically we should

25:59.83] look at whether that's time to revisit the idea for additional transit investment."

26:05.59] I think that really summarizes then

26:08.86] what we understood you want us to visit about today, and like I said, we're happy

26:12.16] to answer questions as time allows.

26:15.58] Thank you. I have several questions, but I'll first open it up to

26:21.55] the committee members for any discussion that you might have.

26:27.82] Yes, Councilman Abiasi.

26:29.44] So, thanks for the update. I think a lot of times you have to step back and look

26:35.38] at where we've been before you could actually take those steps to move forward.

26:40.69] And I'll continue to reference some work that Better Block has done in our

26:45.61] community to forward this entire conversation through a workshop

26:51.55] that they held in 2023, which opened...

26:55.12] I've been involved with the community of transit, bicycling, and all that for

27:01.00] decades. So understanding how to do it on a bicycle, right?

27:06.22] And people kind of get afraid of that relative how that works within our city, and

27:10.15] it takes a while to learn, as you pointed out, Matt, to how to use the system in

27:14.86] order... You don't want to ride your bike on Glenstone, right?

27:17.26] You want to find a bike route or find another alternative street that might work

27:20.77] for you. So you do have to make those decisions and concessions, and I think part

27:26.08] of it is, back to that Better Block conversation-

27:31.37] Realizing that there is another option.

27:33.71] I think a lot of people get in their habit of doing what they do every day, and so

27:37.22] a bit of a mindset shift. And also the ridership needs to be higher,

27:44.42] which means we need to find better ways to create demand.

27:48.36] And part of it is

27:51.38] the people where they are now, and part of it is how do we create some higher

27:55.76] density to create that demand, right?

27:57.47] I think it's a lockstep approach, and so it's going to take some time.

28:03.50] But my question really is,

28:07.07] I realize that this report seems like a huge step for...

28:12.98] But having this conversation will facilitate

28:17.93] other conversations within the community, whether it's with businesses or whether

28:21.47] it's with

28:23.93] city staff and planning, whether it's with council.

28:26.93] I think understanding those are all somewhat inextricably tied together.

28:32.00] I use that word a lot because a lot of our city services are inextricably tied to

28:36.32] one another. You can't just work on one without working on some of the others.

28:39.95] So, I think this is a first step in that process and reaching back to this process

28:45.83] is appreciated. Presentation. Thanks.

28:50.18] Thank you.

28:51.98] So,

28:53.48] several questions, and I'll try to be mindful of your time.

28:55.55] I know you have somewhere to be.

28:57.28] Sure.

28:57.50] I guess just to start off with Councilman Abiasi's comments.

29:02.39] So,

29:04.01] we frame the white paper work as metrics to justify whether we

29:10.01] do expansion of our transit system, and I suppose that kind of brings us to this

29:14.84] fundamental question of chicken and the egg.

29:17.36] Absolutely.

29:18.11] And so the ideal solution, in my mind, and what we're hopefully planning to work

29:23.69] on, is an integrated solution that says, okay, we are actively creating the

29:28.94] situation that justifies expansion.

29:31.16] So changing land use development patterns in key areas that would support some of

29:36.47] these medium-term plan recommendations.

29:39.36] But those can't necessarily happen without implementing the plan.

29:43.97] And so, we're really working to integrate those two, as you guys know, both the

29:48.23] land use, the incentive framework, and a funding mechanism to support this while

29:53.21] that's coming on board.

29:57.41] You had noted that transit can't compete with personal travel time and probably

30:02.09] never will. I don't think achieving parity is our goal, and even the plan says

30:07.19] that's not the goal. But reducing it from 45 minutes to an hour plus

30:12.47] longer via transit than it takes,

30:16.13] the plan talks about if you can get that to within 30 minutes more, folks are much

30:20.63] more likely to use the transit system.

30:22.49] And that's really the feedback that I hear from folks who want to use transit, but

30:27.83] it

30:29.36] doesn't function the way that they need it to.

30:31.48] And so, we've got sort of this false dichotomy of we have to design,

30:37.58] and please tell me if this is wrong, but we have, in my mind, this false dichotomy

30:43.58] of we have to keep a system that serves the individuals who need it most, which is

30:49.61] almost

30:52.13] in opposition to creating a system that provides better service for

30:57.89] choice transit riders. When really, I see if we are making a system that serves

31:03.89] choice transit riders, that almost necessarily means that it's a better functioning

31:09.05] system that those who rely on it will also be able to use.

31:13.19] So I guess I might caveat that-

31:15.23] Yeah

31:15.52] ... by saying that,

31:18.44] indeed, if we could take the system we have now that has good geographic coverage

31:23.69] across the whole city, and if there was a funding source that would allow us to

31:29.33] say, "We'll just double it. So instead of having 30-minute frequency, we'll have

31:34.13] 15-minute frequency." So if that was viable, then certainly everyone that relies on

31:39.71] it now would have more service and more frequency of service, and then those that

31:45.80] have maybe been reluctant transit riders as choice riders, they would

31:51.32] have a more convenient service.

31:53.74] Mm-hmm.

31:53.78] No argument that if you could just double it.

31:56.24] That's a significant cost increase.

32:01.19] So when we talk about, there's this analogy of like, you've got so much peanut

32:06.41] butter, you've got this piece of bread.

32:08.53] Do we spread it evenly across the whole bread, the whole territory, so that if

32:12.05] you're out on the southeast, you have service, if you're out on the northwest, you

32:17.96] have service? Or do you put that peanut butter a little thicker just in the middle,

32:24.23] and so you have more service in a more compact area?

32:29.45] Maybe you'd have more density in that area.

32:31.86] Maybe you have a situation where you have more housing, you have more employment,

32:36.80] you have more of those things that riders would need.

32:40.97] And so then you can make different decisions about how you're allocating those

32:44.39] dollars. You can allocate more service without just truly doubling

32:50.33] your cost if you did in a smaller area.

32:52.94] So I think we're kind of saying the same thing.

32:56.27] But it's just hard to say, "Well, let's just double the whole service."

32:59.54] Yeah. Well, and I know that, I mean, that's not even what medium-term plan

33:03.26] recommends, but I think

33:05.69] when we implement, I'm not going to say if, but when we implement the medium-term

33:09.41] plan, that sort of provides the demonstrated return on value that we can then use

33:15.38] to justify further expansion. So as we're going through this, I

33:21.71] still hear you all sort of with a concern about funding, and that's very

33:26.36] reasonable, but

33:29.54] the goal of this is for the operator to change its mindset and

33:35.03] believe that we are going to be increasing the amount of peanut butter that's

33:39.14] available to spread. That is the purpose of this effort.

33:42.05] And so, rather than approaching it with all these

33:47.61] hesitations and caveats, I think they're realistic, but also recognizing that we

33:52.58] are working to increase the amount of resources that are available.

33:58.31] When you had said that this isn't a per-- this is more just a comment for council,

34:02.24] but you all had mentioned that this isn't a prescriptive timeframe for

34:06.32] implementation. I would just say that both the CU board and city

34:12.14] council adopted these documents, and it outlines these are the timeframes that we

34:17.18] can reasonably expect to implement each of these recommendations.

34:21.89] There are always changing circumstances, but this is what we told our community is

34:27.23] our plan for moving transit forward.

34:29.39] And so I think we should be holding ourselves to that standard.

34:35.39] Earlier on when you were talking about service hour changes, you had noted that

34:38.90] there was low Sunday ridership with one exception. What was that one exception?

34:43.97] There is a

34:46.04] church on the northeast side of town that pays people to

34:52.01] attend, and that ridership bloats during

34:57.98] the going and coming of that church.

35:00.50] Okay.

35:01.53] It is very difficult to meet the need.

35:04.79] Okay. Interesting.

35:10.04] So when you were talking about the Grand Street route, you had noted that street

35:14.99] design is a barrier for what the medium-term plan recommends.

35:19.01] Have you communicated to staff where those specific pain points are?

35:23.11] No, we haven't talked about a specific route.

35:25.40] When we presented this, one of the discussions was this is the general idea.

35:31.11] That it wasn't a, "This is the absolute route that you would put out." But when we

35:35.90] get to the discussion of route design, we would be close to those corridors.

35:39.95] But we've not had specific discussions about a specific route.

35:44.48] Okay.

35:44.96] But we make-

35:45.62] It's not uncommon that we make deviations off of the core route.

35:50.93] We have a route that runs south on National, but it deviates off, I think, at

35:56.24] Bennett and over at Fremont. So, I mean, there perhaps could be those locations

36:00.95] that there might be a different

36:03.38] parallel street alternative as opposed to a corridor redesign.

36:07.40] But I think as we would move forward, we want to have those discussions with public

36:10.43] works.

36:11.18] Yeah. That was exactly going to be my question is when we talk about the need to

36:15.62] better integrate city utilities operations and City of Springfield operations,

36:20.39] that's a really big opportunity for efficiency is folding.

36:24.41] If there's a turn radius that doesn't work for you all, if we can be folding those

36:29.42] types of things into our CIP planning process, and that may or may not, it sounds

36:35.24] like that may not be happening now, but it's a good opportunity for efficiency.

36:40.46] I do think our communication with public works has been very good on these matters.

36:45.03] Where there are things that happen, we talk.

36:48.68] We-

36:50.59] Southbound Glenstone to westbound, uh, Vivion has been a pain point for us.

36:56.86] We've worked with them to change the striping and widen after there were some

37:02.14] pedestrian improvements made. Like, we need a little bit of that back.

37:06.04] So we've worked with them on those things, and then as we've moved forward from

37:10.21] those projects, we're involved in more of those conversations as well, especially

37:14.59] when transit is on the corridor that they're working on.

37:18.82] Okay. Well, and that's great. I'm thinking also forward-looking.

37:23.71] So if we know we're planning route changes, whenever you have those preferred,

37:28.72] like-- I guess my request is rather than planning routes around

37:34.51] existing infrastructure that potentially add deviations that add time to the

37:39.13] overall service, like if there could be a more formal back and forth to say,

37:44.54] "Here's the route that we're planning to expand.

37:47.17] We have proposed this may not be exactly what we do, but to try and stay as close

37:52.81] to this, here are some changes the city should be looking at to make it possible."

37:56.89] Sure. We can include that. We can include that in our next conversation we have

38:01.81] through the OTO with MODOT with the city.

38:04.58] We have a coordination meeting at least every six months.

38:07.09] We can make sure that they're aware of these are out there.

38:11.47] Okay, awesome.

38:14.98] Okay, so the plan itself,

38:18.10] the conversation about regional services, I know, you had said that that's not

38:23.11] really gone anywhere. I guess, what is a helpful next step to at least

38:28.78] explore that? So for your awareness, we're planning a series of panel discussions.

38:34.18] Would it be helpful to invite legislators from surrounding communities to come have

38:38.62] a roundtable at one of these meetings about who's interested in transit service,

38:43.00] what resources can you bring to at least get some clarity on where that

38:48.64] moves? We've also talked about this at OTO as well.

38:52.57] Yeah, I think OTO can be a good convener for that.

38:57.34] It seems like maybe understanding,

39:02.98] I don't want to get the cart before the horse and engaging elected officials if

39:07.93] before we have a discussion with the staff, I want the staff to be aware and then

39:12.31] maybe figure out what the right arrangement is.

39:14.80] I can't speak for how each individual municipality would want to do that.

39:19.99] But the OTO, I think, might be a good convener since a lot of those, I mean, the

39:23.14] three we talked about, they have representation on

39:26.77] that body.

39:27.55] Okay. That's good food for thought.

39:30.01] I guess I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I know that sometimes

39:34.69] just like with this effort we're in right now, it sometimes takes legislator

39:39.67] engagement to get that conversation happening.

39:44.38] When we talk about microtransit, I heard--

39:49.99] So when I read the plan, it was my understanding that microtransit makes it

39:55.57] possible to do some of these route changes within the fiscal constraints.

39:59.65] So I guess I'm curious if you're saying we may not be interested in

40:05.11] microtransit. Like that makes really significant alterations to both the

40:10.51] medium-term and long-term plan that we may not even be able to act on this.

40:15.76] So I guess, can you help me understand that?

40:18.28] Yeah. So I can talk a little bit if you have additional information to share.

40:22.51] It's a totally new concept for us. It's not something that we have familiarity

40:27.16] with.

40:28.81] We, I think, are trying to find the example maybe of who is

40:34.72] like us that's doing it well. I mean, we can't recreate what Kansas City is

40:40.60] doing, and I think they're, and Matt's talked most recently to them.

40:43.75] I don't know that they're thrilled with their microtransit experience.

40:46.36] And so,

40:48.64] I think we need to figure out what's a good model for it to look like.

40:54.70] But so I think if we find that, I don't know that

40:58.75] we would say it's not worthwhile. And I think that that is oftentimes what you hear

41:03.79] is a struggle for transit is that first mile, last mile.

41:07.15] It's I live

41:11.11] three-quarters of a mile down here.

41:12.79] I don't have great mobility, and it takes me that long to get-- It takes me-- It's

41:18.55] not reasonable for me to get to the fixed route system.

41:20.51] And we certainly have the Access Express for folks like that.

41:24.40] But something that was a little more on-demand, a little more frequent, in that

41:28.39] quadrant might be really helpful and could allow you to have more trunk lines, as

41:33.73] opposed to trying to have as much geographic coverage.

41:36.31] Certainly, it opens up those opportunities.

41:38.65] I just don't know that we have seen,

41:41.65] and Matt's very involved with the Missouri Public Transit Association,

41:46.06] industry organizations. I just don't know that we've seen an agency that's

41:50.02] implemented that really well, that fits like us.

41:52.84] But we will continue to investigate.

41:54.91] Okay. A potential model I'd be interested in your thoughts on.

41:58.24] I was just in Montreal over the weekend.

42:01.15] I know it's very different, but, a potential solution, I'm not sure

42:07.03] if there's been discussions, is the co-location of e-bikes and scooter rentals

42:12.76] at transit stops. So when I was there, I mean, they were co-located with each

42:17.98] other, and folks I saw using them to get to those transit facilities.

42:22.54] Has there been any?

42:23.89] Yeah.

42:24.01] I know we have an active e-bike, and I'm not sure if scooter is as popular as it

42:29.44] once was, but-

42:30.91] Yeah. So we've had the scooters in town before.

42:33.14] But not co-located.

42:34.33] Right. And I know there was, it's been some years ago, but there was a company that

42:39.10] was looking at investing in bike share

42:45.13] program, and I think we did have conversations about perhaps having one of those

42:49.30] stations like at the transit center.

42:51.46] So I think,

42:54.31] I don't know that

42:57.40] City Utilities wants to be in the e-bike or e-scooter business.

43:01.09] No, this was a private company.

43:02.74] But certainly if there is that service that's out there, I

43:08.50] think we'd be open to conversations about having them have a facility that would

43:13.69] make it easy for those individuals to access transit. Yeah.

43:17.29] So as the contractor's working on sort of this white paper, would it be possible

43:23.14] for them to include just a consideration if they were partnering with a private

43:27.70] entity that operated those micro-mobility

43:33.40] options? Just what that might look like in terms of-- I know they're limited more

43:38.62] to cost. So what would be the cost the city would need to, or

43:44.71] we would need to provide to make those types of co-locations with a private company

43:49.03] possible?

43:50.95] Yeah.

43:51.37] Is that beyond the scope?

43:52.15] Well, so

43:54.04] my understanding of the scope is that it's really

43:59.11] what should--

44:02.38] When traffic congestion gets to a certain level, then we should

44:08.36] look more at transit reinvest or additional transit investment.

44:12.64] When

44:16.03] density in an area gets to a certain level, we should look at additional transit

44:19.60] investment. So I'm not exactly sure how that fits in there, but-

44:23.44] Well, that threshold analysis is one of five tasks, so the three of the

44:29.41] others are looking at ridership and cost revenue modeling.

44:35.23] So, I mean, this would play into ridership modeling if we're providing a first and

44:40.72] last mile. So I guess my question is just if you could take that back and explore

44:45.43] if that's a possibility.

44:48.01] If I might.

44:48.76] Yeah.

44:49.42] I feel like at one point we basically agreed with the

44:55.27] city that we could place a parking lot

44:59.14] green striped-

45:00.94] Yeah

45:01.30] ... area at the transit center. We had an agreement on that, but I feel like

45:04.84] whatever service that was contracted

45:09.79] stopped servicing Springfield, and the need was not there before that parking lot

45:15.79] could be installed, if you will, to turn this.

45:18.29] So I feel like we have had an agreement to provide those, to allow

45:23.71] those services on the

45:26.89] street side of the property.

45:28.22] Okay.

45:28.94] So I would imagine that we'd be willing to do that again if there's a contract in

45:33.22] place.

45:33.49] So your ask is that the consultant look at what are the costs associated with that

45:38.98] type of microtransit model that we would need to bear to allow a private company

45:44.92] to provide that type of service. And I guess we would, the city or you all, I'm not

45:50.50] sure, as a future next step, would need to work on what does recruitment of that

45:54.67] type of private service provider look like.

45:57.34] Because I hear you, we wouldn't operate that. We don't want to.

46:00.88] Yeah.

46:01.84] So how do we get that type of service?

46:04.63] But you and I talked about that.

46:06.26] Okay.

46:06.73] See what we can come up with.

46:08.69] Did you have a comment or a question?

46:11.09] When you are complete with yours.

46:12.98] Okay. So then talking about cost, that's all on the implementation measures.

46:19.76] In the plan, it talks about operating costs and says the primary driver is

46:25.37] labor, but then there are also other associated costs.

46:29.51] Would it be possible to get a breakout of what those operational costs

46:35.36] look like? Like what component of the

46:39.23] $18.9 million

46:45.62] is labor and staff versus fuel and that

46:51.47] sort of component?

46:52.61] So we can go back and if that's not included in the details in the study, we can

46:56.99] ask the consultant to provide what they base their projections on.

47:01.69] Okay.

47:01.73] It would be

47:03.47] a bigger lift for us to try to derive that out of what it might look

47:09.50] like. I'm not sure what you're asking for.

47:11.99] I guess just a look at your budget for the operations costs, what component is

47:17.87] salary and fringe, what component is fuel, tire, replace, all that.

47:22.13] So our budget or this projection? Because we've not-

47:25.00] This

47:25.00] ... put together a budget for this projection.

47:26.72] This is what the consultant provided.

47:28.43] I'd say your current budget would be a helpful place at least for us to start.

47:32.09] We'll talk to our finance-

47:33.50] Okay

47:34.46] ... team about that.

47:35.81] On the operating cost estimates, it wasn't clear to me, it breaks out several of

47:40.86] the different elements. It wasn't clear to me which one was related to the micro

47:45.03] transit service. I hear you saying that that would be a pretty heavy cost.

47:49.70] I wasn't sure if that was the coverage routes line. It's about 2.1 million.

47:55.53] Yeah, we can look at it.

47:57.03] Okay. Yeah, if you could just clarify that.

47:59.36] Now that you've done these-

48:00.71] Yeah.

48:00.82] I just want to make sure we get these.

48:03.56] I can... I'll get those back to you.

48:05.42] Okay.

48:06.73] Okay.

48:07.22] And then for the capital cost estimates, about half of that is bus replacements,

48:12.83] and right underneath the table, it notes that that's for that bus replacement

48:18.56] cost is over the life of that term of the plan.

48:23.15] So it seems like those are costs you would already be likely incurring as

48:28.34] you're switching out buses. So I guess I'm just curious, it estimates about

48:34.43] 7.5 million for the medium-term plan in terms of bus replacements.

48:39.59] How much of that 7.5 are costs you're already programming and budgeting for?

48:45.83] Yeah.

48:45.92] Because it has new buses as a separate line item.

48:49.36] I think,

48:52.73] we started putting this together Friday, and then I think we're happy to give you

48:58.16] those answers. We probably can't speak in detail to-

49:00.43] No, that's fine

49:01.25] ... specific elements of the study today.

49:03.38] Yeah.

49:04.91] My last... No, I guess it's not my

49:10.79] last. I can skip those.

49:17.09] I guess, can you give us, as a body, just since we're working on funding,

49:23.57] there are significant changes coming down on the federal and state funding levels.

49:28.46] The plan talks about several federal programs that are in operation,

49:33.65] and then Matt, you and I have had conversations about state funding.

49:37.40] Can you just give us kind of an overview of what those look like?

49:42.17] Yeah.

49:42.31] Because as we're having to put dollar amounts to this and say, "Okay.

49:47.96] If we're going to do this, we need to have capital financing available of X

49:53.90] amount and make sure that we're providing an operational subsidy of X amount," we

49:58.49] need to know how much can we rely on these federal and state programs versus how

50:02.90] much should we be doing locally.

50:05.15] Yeah. When this study was prepared, we were still in the midst of some COVID

50:11.00] ARPA era dollars that have largely gone away and will continue to be done away

50:16.88] with.

50:19.53] Federal Department of Transportation is looking at a reauthorization of the

50:24.47] transportation bill, so I think there is some uncertainty of what federal transit

50:29.93] investment is going to look like.

50:32.48] I think that we reasonably think it's going to look similar to how it has.

50:36.65] Those

50:39.08] core funding, formula funding strategies, but we don't know for sure.

50:45.08] That's

50:46.67] up to US Congress to decide.

50:50.26] State level, I think we continue to try to combat erosion of that funding

50:56.24] every year. We did have, a few years ago, an increase in that, but then that's

51:01.91] been kind of eroded away. And that's, in orders of magnitude wise, that's

51:06.74] significantly less than, roughly $100,000.

51:11.00] We're $200,000 from a couple of years ago.

51:13.28] So,

51:14.96] in terms of magnitude of what the federal government provides and then what

51:20.18] CU

51:22.91] utility customers provide, the state's a pretty small-

51:27.29] Okay

51:27.50] ... component of that.

51:29.75] So I think that we...

51:33.05] The mayor asked me one time what a benefit of the

51:38.72] utility operating the transit operation would be, and it's that we, I think,

51:43.43] provide some stability to it, that whenever you have funding changes in other

51:48.89] agencies, sometimes they have to cut service, or sometimes they trim back hours of

51:52.97] service, or they cut a route. And so we've been able to provide some level of

51:56.78] stability. But that only goes so far-

52:00.62] Mm-hmm

52:00.66] ... with our current funding structure.

52:02.48] Yeah. So in March, the timeline we'll be talking through after this discussion,

52:08.33] March is when we're

52:10.67] hoping to have a financing package on both the capital and operational costs

52:15.92] prepared for the full council's consideration.

52:20.03] So I guess between now and then, there just needs to be some coordination of these

52:25.67] 5300 programs through the federal government. They're an 80/20 match.

52:31.13] If we anticipate that match to change or a program to be eliminated, we need to

52:37.13] know that so we can know what the local support is going to have to be.

52:41.69] Yeah. And so a lot of the 80/20 is on capital-

52:44.18] Right

52:44.35] ... and 50/50 for operations.

52:46.27] Correct.

52:46.32] And then still yet, we are only allocated a certain amount through the

52:52.22] formula funding that we have to bank before we have enough to actually

52:58.25] use it to buy a bus. And then the rest of the bus funding

53:03.47] is through a discretionary or competitive grants, which are highly competitive.

53:09.41] So those are just going to be things that you'll need to be coordinating with our

53:13.07] EV and our finance folks as we get closer to of what can we reliably

53:18.98] count on, and then what are the discretionary opportunities that we may have to

53:24.83] finance this.

53:30.17] I have something on financing-

53:31.04] Yeah.

53:31.85] Unless you're going to another topic.

53:33.80] No, please.

53:35.36] So could we back up just a little bit and

53:40.67] understand the funding source? So is 100%

53:46.58] of the transit budget subsidized through electric customers

53:52.34] currently?

53:53.78] Sure. So-

53:55.32] I'm just curious about that, and I feel like that is a baseline for us that-

54:00.19] Yeah

54:00.19] ... we should be seeing up on the screen in whatever presentation it is that you

54:05.07] have and how that feeds into conversations for financing-

54:10.38] Mm-hmm

54:10.45] ... and springboarding from there.

54:11.60] Because, again, you're going to answer the question as far as what percentage of

54:16.88] the transit budget is subsidized through electric customers.

54:22.88] So

54:24.71] for the deficit in 2026, about a little

54:30.59] over 65% of that was funded by electric rates, electric

54:36.59] customers.

54:37.28] That means

54:39.20] industrial, commercial, and residential-

54:41.93] That's right

54:43.16] ... users in our electric bills, we are already subsidizing

54:49.10] transit to the tune of like 65% of the total budget.

54:53.39] Of the deficit. So it's about-

54:54.92] Of the deficit.

54:55.64] Right. So about a $10 million deficit from… So if you take away the other operating

55:00.17] cost, you take away what the passenger fares make up-

55:05.09] Okay

55:05.36] ... and then you take away state funding, you take away federal funding-

55:08.84] Okay

55:09.03] ... that left about $10 million in 2026.

55:11.60] Of that $10 million, about a little over 65% is from electric

55:17.57] customers

55:18.85] About 23% is from natural gas, about 11% is from water customers to make up that

55:24.49] deficit.

55:25.54] Can we have a chart of that? I just feel like that is a starting point for us that

55:30.58] we visually always need to have presented before us in terms

55:35.86] of the fact that we are operating at a deficit and that everyone

55:41.77] who's paying an electric bill, or natural gas, as you say, and you say water as

55:47.14] well, they are paying for the deficit that we already have with

55:53.20] our transit system. And it seems as though if we're talking about local funding,

55:59.59] additional funding for transit, then those three areas

56:05.44] seem like that's the area where you would have the conversation around,

56:11.98] I don't know if it's fares, increase the fares, or I don't know if it's looking at

56:17.89] electric, water, and natural gas bills, in addition to what you say in terms of

56:23.56] state and federal funding. But I'm just trying to think practically, where-- I

56:29.05] mean, is it a tax? What is it? And we don't know, and that's why I think from

56:35.08] the beginning when you mentioned the ad hoc committee, that

56:40.12] could've been a mechanism to where you're kind of feeling out what is the

56:45.43] appetite of individuals from these various opportunities to say,

56:51.43] "Hey, we need to create more revenue if we want more service."

56:56.32] Absolutely. Yeah, I would say that's going to be our January meetings where we're

57:01.06] talking about the different financing mechanisms.

57:03.46] So, some of the examples of local funding sources

57:09.39] are transportation development districts.

57:12.88] Right now, they're basically used just to support individual projects.

57:17.05] But the purpose of them is to create a larger

57:22.78] district that funds transportation development within that area.

57:27.55] So if we're talking about a 15-minute corridor, it could be a district

57:33.19] along that corridor that helps pay for those operations and those capital expenses.

57:38.44] But staff are going to be bringing a more robust overview of all of the potential

57:43.06] financing mechanisms. Also, not to forget, there are private funding opportunities,

57:48.73] so public-private partnerships that can be contemplated.

57:53.40] And I can send you the info from the plan on that.

57:56.71] Councilman Housner.

57:57.61] Kelly, just for my-- the 65, 23, 11%, that's just based upon the

58:02.65] total revenues that the city utilities has coming in. There's no formula.

58:08.91] It's the way that-

58:12.10] Total revenue

58:12.73] ... we rate. Yeah.

58:15.22] So 65% of the total revenue for city utilities is from electric-

58:20.65] I-

58:21.31] 23 roughly

58:21.91] ... we believe that is correct, yes.

58:23.16] And so the deficit is just paid for pro rata?

58:26.41] Yes.

58:26.95] Okay.

58:27.70] Okay.

58:30.19] So my last two questions. I appreciate you all being here.

58:33.61] The first is that we've talked about you did a lot of community engagement, and so,

58:39.82] as we talk about panel discussions, it's not going to be focused on what should we

58:43.93] do, but working to understand what would the value of this be for

58:51.37] business owners, for riders to implement these medium-term plans that's going to

58:56.08] help with some messaging and potentially financing options.

59:00.49] One of the groups we had expressed interest in hearing from were the bus drivers

59:05.17] themselves. As I've thought over it, I'm not sure how

59:10.39] many employees would be willing to come to this type of meeting and share

59:16.21] here my concerns or the opportunities that I would

59:22.21] see as a bus driver if we made these types of changes.

59:24.88] So I guess I'm curious if you all have any preexisting engagement or

59:30.91] feedback information from your drivers, if it would be possible to share that with

59:35.47] us, or if you have a sense would a panel make sense?

59:39.79] So I would want to have further discussions about panel.

59:44.26] But I can assure you that our drivers are never shy about sharing with us their

59:50.14] thoughts on, "Hey, this route might work better here," or, "We pick up people here

59:54.34] that are really trying to go over here, and that would help out." And so we get

59:57.16] that feedback on the regular, and we note that and actually

60:02.68] informs

60:05.08] these recommendations that we've made or these changes that we've made.

60:08.74] We also have periodic bus operator roundtable time, and so that might be something

60:13.72] that might be-- and we say roundtable, it tends to be more they stop in and they

60:18.76] kind of share some thoughts about something.

60:20.68] And that might be something good that Matt could do is at one of the next

60:25.21] roundtable times

60:28.21] really make them know the focus of this would be, and you give us the prompt,

60:34.99] and then he can have those conversations, and we can report back some of the

60:39.13] feedback. I think that might be a better option.

60:42.13] Okay.

60:43.15] That's what I figured is as I was thinking through it, I was like, as an employee,

60:46.54] I would feel kind of weird.

60:47.65] Yeah.

60:48.19] So, okay.

60:52.27] Then my last question, not really a question, just a request.

60:55.99] As you can tell,

60:58.66] we're going to be doing some pretty thorough work that's going to potentially

61:03.13] impact both of our organizations.

61:05.02] I'd like to make sure there's a formal invitation to the CU board for

61:10.78] someone to regularly attend these meetings and actively participate in the

61:15.70] discussion and get feedback from the utilities perspective as well.

61:20.08] I think that'll be important, especially as we get into the work of the new year.

61:26.08] So if you could just extend that invitation.

61:28.48] Yeah, and I might recommend that whether-- I don't know what the appropriate-- I

61:33.16] don't know if it'd be better for the mayor to talk to Chairman Leonard from our

61:36.52] board, or if it'd be better for city manager to talk to Dwayne and coordinate that,

61:41.68] but that might be the best. I mean, I can certainly pass it along, but as far as

61:46.93] just making sure that we get it all documented and details on the proper channels,

61:51.76] that might be better.

61:53.86] Okay. Well, yeah, I'll-

61:55.96] Sure

61:55.99] ... draft up a request to send to the chairman.

62:00.76] And I think, Councilman Housman, as you indicated about the businesses, and their

62:05.05] impacts, and another just kind of to frame the funding discussion,

62:11.20] our largest electric customers, of course, fund the largest

62:17.26] part of that deficit. And so,

62:21.58] our 10 largest electric customers, they cover about 10%

62:28.90] of the transit subsidies. So that just kind of gives you that when you start

62:33.70] talking about

62:36.40] their impact on these kind of changes, it can be pretty significant for some of our

62:41.95] largest electric customers if you had those additional expenses.

62:46.96] Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. Any other questions from-

62:50.98] Yes

62:51.16] ... Councilman Advincia?

62:52.48] Just follow up on a couple of things you mentioned and that they mentioned.

62:55.90] Just the verbiage about not possible to compete with personal vehicles, I think we

63:00.76] just need to set that aside as we have these conversations.

63:04.81] You mentioned one of the trigger points is when congestion gets to a point,

63:10.39] and our next step would be what? Widen the roads, make bigger roads, make more

63:15.91] lanes, and we need to find a way to--

63:18.79] I mean, if we could take that money that we would have used to maybe widen or do

63:24.25] some better physical street construction and apply it towards these kinds of

63:29.59] things, I think we would be way far ahead in lots of those conversations.

63:34.72] And I would say if that's what the community were to prioritize-

63:37.78] Yeah.

63:38.11] Absolutely.

63:40.69] Just to comment back from the Better Block thing that I missed earlier, and we

63:44.38] talked about microtransit and the geographic reasons, but I also think microtransit

63:49.33] in a functional standpoint, what I heard from several folks was, "Hey, take me to

63:53.62] the park. I want to go from my apartment where I don't own a car to get to a park."

63:59.86] Versus, and sometimes that park means I got to take my bike, and we have that sort

64:03.55] of option, but what if I want to take my kayak up to Fellows Lake or Lake

64:06.40] Springfield or something? Thinking about the microtransit, not just in the

64:10.36] geographic sense, but in the functional sense.

64:13.99] And my last question is really for the chair.

64:15.82] You got the plan there in front of you.

64:17.17] What was the medium-term timeframe that was established back with the plan?

64:26.16] It kind of varied. In a couple of places, it

64:31.04] used the verbiage of three to five years.

64:34.63] Mm-hmm.

64:34.64] Yeah. So on page eight four, it talks about a three-to-five year horizon, but then

64:40.19] it also says a five-to-10 year horizon.

64:42.50] Okay.

64:42.71] So we're-

64:43.91] Somewhere in that range now.

64:45.14] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, sir.

64:47.93] Do the sewer bills also offset the deficit?

64:52.91] And why is that? Because it comes back to the city?

64:57.38] Yeah, as you know, we bill on behalf of the city for sanitary

65:03.23] sewer, but sanitary sewer is not one of the services that City Utilities provides,

65:07.49] so that's not a mechanism for us to recover the deficit.

65:12.68] And last time we met with City Utilities, I asked for the information about what

65:17.51] the surcharge, if we did the same surcharge on sewer that's provided outside the

65:22.64] city of Springfield, would that generate. Do we have any idea on that?

65:27.50] I don't, and I don't remember if we were going to find that or if your folks were

65:33.05] going to find that. I'm not sure.

65:34.32] Okay. Because if

65:36.59] I remember right, it's 10% for... Is it electric?

65:42.05] Yes. I believe that's correct.

65:47.03] I don't know if we can find it, but we've been talking about that for a long time,

65:50.96] that that might be a source of revenue that, I think it should be the same.

65:55.90] I don't know why we subsidize other people who live outside the city of Springfield

66:01.43] on the rate fares here in the city of Springfield.

66:03.82] But if we look at what that dollar value would be with the same surcharge that we

66:09.83] have for either-- Lowest surcharge we have for

66:14.69] water, electric, gas, on sewer

66:20.36] services outside the city of Springfield. I'd like to find that out.

66:25.46] Good point. Any other questions or comments?

66:28.79] I had one comment about-

66:30.01] Yeah.

66:30.80] So I've only been living here since 2013, and I talked to individuals who,

66:37.64] of course, have been living here way longer than me.

66:40.01] And they talk about a time when transit went from

66:45.57] somewhere within the city to the airport.

66:48.57] And there are those who bemoan and really yes or year.

66:55.58] Can you describe what that relationship used to be like? Did it exist?

66:59.29] Yes.

66:59.30] How did it exist-

67:00.25] Sure

67:00.68] ... in terms of transit to the airport and the airport into the city?

67:04.13] So that was even before my arrival on the scene.

67:08.09] But

67:09.80] my understanding is it never had much ridership.

67:13.58] That was pretty low use for people to go to the airport.

67:18.35] And if you think about all those miles, so when you're talking about resource

67:24.05] deployment, basically, that distance on out to the airport, there's not a lot of

67:29.09] development between here and there.

67:30.97] Mm-hmm.

67:30.97] And so there wasn't a lot of other reasons.

67:34.10] And so it ended up being just simply a resource decision that we could better

67:40.04] use that time, those hours to provide better coverage somewhere else.

67:45.92] I know it's lucrative, though, in terms of ridership from the airport into

67:51.89] the city because of the

67:55.76] car rentals. So I think that is lucrative, I know, for the

68:01.55] airport. And so

68:04.53] are we just saying that it's better off as an enterprise versus public transit?

68:10.79] Yeah. So certainly the fare that we would charge would be

68:16.28] significantly less than what a rideshare would charge.

68:19.79] And so they're operating at a cost that will give them a margin,

68:26.12] a profit, whereas we are operating at a cost that gives us a deficit.

68:30.41] So I think that's one aspect, and then the rental car aspect, I think, is I

68:37.28] don't think it would be unreasonable to say that most people that are renting a

68:40.88] car, they want to have that car available.

68:43.13] Which then would go back to your conversation, of course, about what if they didn't

68:46.07] have to.

68:46.70] Yeah.

68:48.65] That may be a good opportunity when we get to the end of this as a referral to the

68:53.27] airport board to look at,

68:56.06] could they explore having a fee-for-service on those

69:01.88] car rentals to subsidize a transit line

69:07.88] to the airport. So, that's certainly something we could refer over to them to take

69:12.95] a look at. So, well, I want to thank you both.

69:16.19] I know we've kept you 40 minutes over time.

69:20.60] I just want you to know that I

69:23.69] assume I speak for council, but tell me if I don't, that we really appreciate the

69:29.21] work that you guys did to put the plan together.

69:32.90] And just reiterate that we are wanting to be partners in bringing that plan to a

69:38.54] reality, and we fully recognize City Utilities cannot and will not do it

69:44.21] alone. And so the whole purpose of this is to make sure that we are coming

69:48.92] alongside you to support the transit service that our community needs.

69:53.21] So I'm going to give you each a copy of the timeline that we're using, and also

69:57.44] make sure that this goes to Chairman Leonard as well, just so you can understand

70:03.35] what we're planning on covering over the next several months and figure out with

70:08.00] your internal work-

70:09.01] Sure

70:09.32] ... the timing that needs to happen.

70:12.68] Okay.

70:12.74] Thank you both.

70:13.52] All right. Thank you.

70:14.24] Thank you.

70:14.38] Thank you.

70:17.72] Okay.

70:20.30] So the second part of this discussion, you all should have a copy

70:26.21] of the proposed timeline in front of you.

70:29.39] I wanted to just walk through this, make sure you're all aware.

70:32.75] And I've got an extra copy, yeah, if you need it.

70:36.56] But just walk through this, make sure you're aware of the different types of

70:40.73] information that we're going to be working through and determine if we need to make

70:44.93] any modifications.

70:48.20] So September meeting, we've covered this.

70:52.31] It is the presentation from CU. For our October meeting, we're planning on the

70:58.34] first of our panel discussions. Staff are still working on coordinating that, and

71:04.31] that coordination is really going to be dependent upon which group is available to

71:10.22] come to that time. So whether it's the business employee owners, the riders

71:16.25] panel, or the generations panel that we've discussed.

71:20.96] So neither of which are here, but staff will

71:27.29] be letting us know, I assume, relatively soon, which panel group that's going to be

71:32.54] so that you can start to formulate some questions.

71:35.93] I'll start off with just a very brief overview of the medium-term recommendations

71:41.03] and make sure that we're aligning the questions to what would the impact of

71:46.25] implementing this be for business owners or for riders.

71:50.66] So making sure that we get that feedback from them.

71:54.62] The November meeting is going to be the

71:59.21] second presentation of that. We also anticipate having the

72:04.13] contractors' white paper prepared and presented to us at that meeting, as well as

72:10.31] holding that initial committee discussion of, okay, we know potential cost

72:15.89] estimates, we know the thresholds.

72:18.23] Which of these recommendations do we want to move forward with microtransit?

72:24.71] Deciding which ones to move forward within this recommendation.

72:30.29] After we have that discussion, the goal is to have this

72:36.29] come to a council lunch and say, "Here's our initial findings." Really just getting

72:41.12] a gut check from the full council of these are what we're going to be asking staff

72:46.61] to prepare a potential financing mechanism for, preparing communication plans for,

72:52.40] and just getting a gut check.

72:55.49] And feel free to stop me as we go through this if you have any feedback or changes.

73:00.47] December is anticipated to be the last of our three panel discussions.

73:06.08] January is where staff will be bringing forward to us an overview

73:12.02] of the current funding structure, what it really looks like.

73:15.50] A lot of the questions we asked today, overviewing what the medium-term

73:21.38] cost estimates are from the contractor for the ones that we elect to move forward

73:26.63] with, and then also providing that overview of here are potential funding

73:30.86] mechanisms, whether it's those transportation development districts, public-private

73:35.63] partnerships, or other tools.

73:38.76] I anticipate we'll need a second committee meeting in January to continue that

73:44.43] discussion. That's going to be a pretty hefty presentation from staff.

73:48.96] So, we will be adding a second committee meeting in

73:54.24] January to finalize what financing mechanisms

74:00.54] we recommend moving forward. February is going to be a discussion of land

74:06.45] use, whether a corridor plan is appropriate,

74:12.27] and how we might change the zoning code or recommend certain incentive structures

74:18.12] within the areas that are going to receive improved transit.

74:24.00] And then

74:26.58] March will be our final buttoning up of all of the work.

74:31.11] So ideally, by that time, we will have identified a funding mechanism.

74:36.21] If it requires a council action or a public vote, we would be preparing that

74:42.24] to send to the full council for a recommendation.

74:45.18] If there are any referrals to other entities like the airport board or others, we

74:50.46] would discuss that at that time to have fully prepared to move forward for

74:56.43] a full council consideration in April.

75:00.93] So, any feedback on this timeline? Any concerns that you all have?

75:08.34] Do you believe that

75:10.89] in February 2027, the discussion related

75:16.92] to incentive structures and possibly identifying the corridor, do you anticipate

75:22.65] that it will overlap with what's going on in the Community Involvement Committee in

75:26.97] terms of the economic incentives package?

75:31.38] Are you anticipating that it will be concurrent?

75:34.92] I can't guarantee it's going to be concurrent.

75:38.19] I've communicated to Councilwoman Carroll that we're doing this work in the

75:42.36] timeframe that we would anticipate those recommendations coming forward.

75:46.31] And then I'm going to be meeting with her just to make sure she stays aware as we

75:51.39] move through this, sort of what the council work looks like.

75:54.90] I've also made her aware of the LIHTC funding recommendations that we've made in

76:00.57] our previous meetings to ensure those are folded in as well.

76:05.34] Okay. Thank you.

76:06.96] Yeah. Councilman Abney.

76:08.64] As I was going through the panel discussions, I'm like, "Okay, what happened to

76:13.80] panel number three?" But I see it got pushed down to December.

76:17.01] Is there any specific rationale for the council lunch happening prior to panel

76:22.02] three, or can those be flip-flopped?

76:24.70] Um-

76:25.08] So that we come to council with a full three-panel report.

76:29.19] Yeah. No, that's a great point. We have not finalized that potential council lunch

76:33.63] date. So, I can certainly do that. The intent

76:39.39] was just to make sure that before that January 2nd meeting,

76:45.56] that we have kind of a gut check from council on the direction that we're

76:51.03] going. So-

76:52.98] So priority is make sure we have it, and if it happens to be before panel number

76:56.94] three, that's okay. I'm just curious-

76:58.44] Yeah

76:58.62] ... if there was a rationale. Thank you.

76:59.94] Yeah, no, we had planned on having the panels be this month, next month, and

77:04.05] November.

77:05.22] Right.

77:05.28] But they needed to shift back a month.

77:07.61] Right. So, thanks.

77:08.67] Yeah. Any other questions or feedback?

77:13.89] All right. Well then, make sure that you keep this, as I'm sure you noted.

77:19.11] Each of these have suggested committee prep work for you to do in advance of our

77:23.34] finance and admin committee meeting.

77:27.81] So feel free to do that or not. It's up to you, but I appreciate you guys.

77:32.85] It's going to be

77:34.80] a busy next few months, just as it has been for the last several months.

77:39.26] So, I appreciate your time.

77:41.33] With that-

77:42.00] Yeah.

77:42.69] Just as a kind of a closing comment.

77:44.40] You're giving us some homework here, and at the Sustain Conference last week,

77:50.34] you gave out some other homework-

77:52.03] Yeah

77:52.38] ... that I think might be beneficial to this group as well, or maybe some of the

77:55.20] audience members.

77:56.10] Oh, sure. Yeah, so I just asked everybody, I presented on sustainable

78:01.38] transportation, so sidewalks, trails, and transit.

78:05.58] And I left everyone with a challenge to make one

78:08.61] trip by foot and one trip by transit.

78:14.94] Note your experiences and share it with a friend, and share it with council. So...

78:19.41] Done.

78:20.34] Awesome. So yeah, good call. Thank you.

78:24.75] All right. With that, any final comments or a motion to adjourn?

78:30.96] Motion to adjourn.

78:32.07] I have a motion. Do I have a second?

78:35.04] Second. Second from Councilman Hosmer. Any discussion? Ms.

78:39.51] Scott, please call the roll.

78:41.16] Adeyosi.

78:41.88] Aye.

78:42.75] Borton.

78:43.50] Aye.

78:44.16] Hosmer.

78:45.42] Aye.

78:45.45] Jensen.

78:45.96] Aye. We are adjourned. Aye. Thank you.

78:48.33] He said aye.

78:49.38] Yeah,

78:52.65] I know.