2026-10-13 - Planning Commission

00:28[clears throat] the members of the dur.

00:30Yikes.

00:37>> The members

00:39>> disconnect audio.

00:41>> It's already out.

00:43>> Turn your sound off.

00:51>> All right,

00:53let's try again. Good evening and

00:55welcome to the Durham Planning

00:56Commission. The members of the Durham

00:58Planning Commission are appointed by

01:00city council and the Durham County Board

01:03of Commissioners to make recommendations

01:06to the elected officials. We emphasize

01:09that the elected officials have the

01:10final say on any issue before us

01:12tonight. If you are intending in person

01:14and wish to speak on a particular agenda

01:17item, please register on the signup

01:19sheets located on the table to my left.

01:23You will be called upon to make your

01:24comments at the appropriate time. You

01:27may also call in during the meeting by

01:29592.

01:31If you call in during the meeting, you

01:32will need to wait until the particular

01:34public hearing you are interested in

01:36starts. After all of the pre-registered

01:39speakers have shared their comments, I

01:41will ask if there is anyone else wishing

01:43to speak. At that point, you will need

01:46to digitally raise your hand by pressing

01:48star9 on your phone. When recognized,

01:52state your name and address address

01:55before making your comments. The

01:57applicant has a total of 10 minutes for

01:59their presentation.

02:01Each speaker after the applicant has two

02:03minutes to speak. Commissioners will be

02:06given five minutes for Q&A. Please keep

02:09your comments succinct. Commissioners,

02:12as a reminder, after the public hearing

02:14is closed, you obtain the floor by being

02:17recognized by the chair. The time to

02:19make all public statements is before

02:21motions are made. All motions are stated

02:24in the affirmative. So if a motion fails

02:26or ties, the recommendation is for

02:29denial.

02:30After the case you are here for ends,

02:32please exit the chambers quietly and

02:35pursue further discussion in the lobby

02:37as the commission continues its meeting.

02:40Finally, I ask everyone here and on the

02:42Zoom, the commission members, the staff,

02:45and the public to conduct themselves in

02:47a courteous and respectful manner. If

02:50someone fails to act in that manner, the

02:52chair will ask the offending person or

02:54persons to be muted on the Zoom or asked

02:57to leave the council chambers until such

03:00time they can regain personal control.

03:03If decorum fails to be restored, the

03:05chair will recess the meeting until a

03:07genuine commitment to act respectful and

03:10courteous is observed.

03:12May we have the roll call, please.

03:22>> Chair Shagaras

03:23>> here.

03:24>> Vice Chair Cameron

03:26>> here.

03:27>> Commissioner Bailey

03:28>> here.

03:31Commissioner Capers,

03:33Commissioner Clemens [snorts]

03:34>> here,

03:36>> Commissioner Chicowski

03:37>> here,

03:38>> Commissioner Hunter,

03:41Commissioner Huarez Maldonado

03:44>> here,

03:45>> Commissioner Montes,

03:48Commissioner Ninker,

03:51Commissioner Pionek

03:52>> here,

03:54>> Commissioner Richie,

03:57Commissioner Wen

03:59>> here,

04:00I'm sorry.

04:01>> I'm sorry. That was Wen [laughter]

04:04>> here.

04:06>> Commissioner Woke

04:07>> also here.

04:08>> We're going to have to get used to that.

04:10So, I understand that Commissioners

04:12Richie and Hunter are on their way. Um,

04:14they will be able to participate in any

04:17item for which they are here for the

04:18opening presentation. Um, but we do have

04:21a quorum.

04:25>> Item number three, adjustments to the

04:27agenda. There are no adjustments to the

04:30agenda.

04:32Item number four, approval of the

04:34minutes and consistency statements.

04:38Madame Chair, I move to approve the

04:40minutes and consistency statements from

04:42August 11th, 2026.

04:45>> A second.

04:47>> It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

04:49and seconded by Commissioner Bailey to

04:52approve the minutes and consistency

04:54statements. All in favor, please say I.

04:57I

04:59>> any nays? Nope. The eyes have it. Item

05:04number five on the agenda, public

05:07hearings, text amendments, omnibus 20

05:10TC26 quadruple 03. May we have the staff

05:14report, please?

05:30All right, while the presentation is

05:32getting pulled up, I'm just going to

05:33start. Uh, good evening. My name is

05:35Robin Schultz. Um, before I begin, all

05:39planning public hearing items have been

05:42heard and noticed in accordance with

05:44state law and affidavit of such are in

05:46record of the planning department. I

05:48haven't said that in a minute, so if any

05:49of that is incorrect, um, you can find

05:51me personally. But we should be good.

05:54Uh, we did notice everything. Anyway, my

05:57name is Robin Schultz. I'm presenting to

05:59you all tonight on TC26 quadruple03

06:02omnimous 20 um here at the planning

06:05commission tonight.

06:09Uh so as a reminder an omnibus is a

06:12specific type of text amendment is

06:13intended to provide clarifications,

06:16corrections, technical revisions and

06:18updates to the ordinance as uh

06:22essentially mandated through legislative

06:23updates. Um larger policy shifts go

06:26through a different process. Um

06:28generally they have you know more

06:29engagement um things of that nature. Uh

06:33and so this is more of a hey these are

06:35changes that we need to make either to

06:37clarify the ordinance um or to ensure

06:40that the UDO is in compliance with all

06:42state uh uh regulations.

06:47So Omnivis 20 makes updates to 10 of the

06:50articles within the UDO. Majority of

06:52those are technical revisions or

06:53response to legislative updates. Um

06:56there are quite a few things that have

06:58popped up. Um the appropriations act.

07:01So, we finally got a budget uh which

07:03altered the process of appeals for

07:05administrative decisions uh no impact

07:08homebased businesses. So, removed our

07:10ability to uh require permitting for

07:13most homebased businesses uh and the

07:16regulatory reform act uh which limits

07:18the amount of glazing so windows uh uh

07:22that local governments can require on

07:24commercial or multif family structures.

07:27And I did just want to note that there

07:28were some other changes uh but those

07:31required updates to our processes um

07:34things around permit choice and free

07:35transparency. So you will not see those

07:38in the omnibus 20 document. Those are

07:40administrative.

07:44Uh and staff is available to answer any

07:45questions.

07:55Are there any

07:58The chair is now opening the public

07:59hearing. We've already had the

08:01applicant, but community members in

08:04person,

08:05Mimi Kesler.

08:12[snorts]

08:23Good evening, commissioners. My name is

08:25Mimi Kesler and I live in Durham. I

08:28always call these omnibus text

08:30amendments ominous because they are very

08:33tricky. I sent you an email this

08:36afternoon when I realized that whatever

08:38time I would be allotted would not be

08:41sufficient for me to go through my

08:43concerns. As stated in the cover letter

08:46for these amendments, it is to clarify

08:48language, correct inconsistency, and

08:51reflect legislative updates.

08:54As I read the law and the document being

08:57edited, I do not think that this draft

09:00reaches that goal. Some of it removes

09:03access to the public and the law does

09:06not require the narrowing of the notice

09:08provision already in 3.1.5.

09:14The statute does not expressly require

09:16Durham to eliminate other

09:18interpretations

09:19procedures or restrict all requests for

09:23interpretation to the people under

09:26subsection B1.

09:29The proposed changes to 3.1.5

09:33raise additional questions about how the

09:35city is incorporating the new statutory

09:38requirements.

09:403.1.5 does not expressly address the

09:44statute's written notice requirement.

09:47The proposed amendment narrows that

09:49language to the newly defined official

09:53interpretation,

09:54potentially reducing the scope of

09:57Durham's existing public notice

09:59requirements rather than merely

10:02implementing the new state law.

10:05These distinctions matter because

10:07subsection B already governs

10:10administrative determinations and is

10:12expressly

10:14referenced in Durham's existing

10:16interpretation procedure.

10:19It does not expressly require Durham to

10:22narrow the notice provisions already

10:24established under 3.1.5.

10:30I have more to say, but [laughter] but I

10:32respectfully ask that you continue this

10:36for one cycle at least until we can get

10:40these questions answered. Thank you.

10:42>> Thank you.

10:45>> Is there a response from the applicant?

10:48>> Sure. So, this was drafted in

10:52coordination with the city attorney's

10:53office. Um essentially state law did not

10:57give broad authority to or it was uh

11:00much there was not direct uh direction

11:05to the planning and development director

11:06on how to provide those interpretations

11:09beforehand and it actually reduced the

11:11amount u that she is able to provide. Um

11:15so essentially what it's done is it says

11:17that you can no longer ask the planning

11:19and development director for large broad

11:22interpretations. So you cannot ask the

11:25the the director how does this work in

11:27every situation. What you can do is

11:30submit uh for an official interpretation

11:33of how a certain uh administrative

11:35decision affected a certain site. So she

11:38can make uh determinations and

11:40interpretations on a case-byase basis

11:42that are specific to a site. Um and then

11:45those can be then appealed through that

11:48administrative decisions uh process. Um,

11:52so that that is the the the real change

11:55in the shift. However, this was written

11:57uh like I said with the city attorney's

11:59office. We it's not our intent to change

12:01any recordkeeping, any uh changes of

12:04notice, anything along those lines. Um

12:07the planning director does have the

12:08authority to make determinations um

12:10which are not constructed and noticed

12:12right in the sort of everyday manner

12:15that uh departments function. So that is

12:18not changing. Essentially what is

12:19changing is making it very clear what

12:21Sarah or the planning and development

12:23director can interpret at what time and

12:25then how it is um how it can be

12:28appealed. Though I will say we will take

12:31this um and those concerns and speak

12:34with the city attorney's office to

12:36double check and make sure that we are

12:38not creating a situation in which we are

12:41providing less notice um or keeping

12:43records in a different fashion.

12:48Thank you. Is there anybody on the Zoom

12:50that wishes to speak on this item?

12:52Please

12:53raise your hand. Use the raise your hand

12:56function.

13:05Nope. Anybody?

13:07Oh, Malora McCall.

13:25Hi, can you hear me?

13:27>> Yes.

13:29>> Oh, hi. Thank you. Um, my name is Mor

13:31McCall. I also had some similar

13:34questions. Um, and I emailed you just

13:36shortly before this meeting that I think

13:37have also more than I will be able to

13:38say tonight. But I think my central

13:41concern is that the public and the

13:42voting body hasn't provided the

13:44sufficient information to meaningfully

13:46understand these amendments. The staff

13:48memorandum cites 39.5A of the session

13:52law concerning the administrative

13:54appeals. But section 3.1 has to do with

13:57section 39.5E

13:59which is establishes that new

14:01requirement for written binding

14:03interpretive determinations.

14:05Um, so I understand that the new law

14:07established as an additional statutory

14:09interpretive determination procedure,

14:11but it didn't require Durham to go

14:13restrict its existing interpretation

14:16procedures. Um, so the UDO already

14:19provided for that interpretation

14:20authority for written requests and

14:22responses. Um, I'll note that the new

14:26language says a proposed uh language,

14:30sorry, the interpreter may only issue an

14:32official interpretation for

14:33administrative decisions, which is also

14:35in the new title, but the statute

14:37requires written binding determinations

14:40concerning how development regulations

14:41apply to a given set of facts. It does

14:44not require a prior administrative

14:46decision. So, I wonder about this

14:48proposed ordinance language um kind of

14:51imposing that limitation.

14:54Um the constructive notice language I

14:57also noted kind of narrowed from an

14:59interpretation to only an official

15:01interpretation.

15:03And I think it's hard to sus out what

15:05changes were legally required under this

15:08new session law versus what's

15:10discretionary policy changes being

15:12introduced um you know kind of as these

15:15technical amendments. Um so I do think

15:17there are some substantive questions

15:19about how things work today and what's

15:24being reduced by calling them all

15:26official interpretations. Um while the

15:29director maintains the ability to

15:31interpret the ordinance which is written

15:33in the proposed language and current

15:34language but the ability to appeal or be

15:38noticed or written record is reduced

15:40down to the official interpretations

15:43only. So I think it should also be

15:45deferred for more clarification. Thank

15:47you.

15:50>> Thank you. Is there anybody else

15:53[clears throat] on the Zoom wishing to

15:54speak on this item?

15:58Please raise your hand

16:00or press star 9 if you're on the phone.

16:12Going once, going twice,

16:17gone. The chair is now

16:21No.

16:23Yes. Do you have any response to those

16:26questions or are they the same concerns?

16:28>> Those sound to me to be the same

16:30concerns. However, I have not seen what

16:34um Miss McCall has sent. Um, so like I

16:37said before, I'm happy to take this back

16:40to the city attorney's office before it

16:42moves forward to ensure that it is in

16:44line with state law without reducing any

16:46of the uh notice or recordkeeping

16:49capacity and ensuring that it still is

16:52holding true to what the state says that

16:54Sarah can issue an official

16:56interpretation for.

16:59>> Thank you.

17:02>> All right. Now the public hearing is

17:04closed or open for commissioner

17:06discussion. Do the commissioners have

17:07any questions or comments?

17:10>> Yes.

17:12Is there any reason not

17:13>> Commissioner Clemens?

17:15>> Yes.

17:16>> Thank you. Is there any reason to not

17:19continue it for further public comment

17:22and review?

17:23>> You have the ability to uh provide that.

17:27You have the ability to continue at any

17:29point. Um, and I don't want to advise

17:31you on that. Um, but I will say that I

17:35feel confident that we can speak with

17:36the city attorney's office and provide

17:39that as a followup within the next memo

17:41for city council sort of detailing those

17:43concerns. But like I said, um, I have

17:46not seen that email or read those

17:50concerns. So, um, but given what I've

17:53heard, um, I feel confident that we can,

17:57uh, speak with the city attorney's

17:58office. However, like I said, um, I

18:01don't want to advise you on your action.

18:02I'm just letting you know, um, either

18:04path forward would work for the planning

18:06and development department.

18:12>> Okay. Can we request that it be

18:15continued

18:17before the public comment and review?

18:22uh Boinsky plan development. I would

18:24just add the to your to your question

18:26about any um there are other portions of

18:28the honor text amendment that currently

18:30aren't in align with the new

18:32legislation. So we certainly do have uh

18:36an interest in moving forward with these

18:38changes so that our uh our local

18:40ordinance aligns with state statute.

18:45>> I have a few questions. Are there any

18:47other commissioners? Nobody over here.

18:51>> D Commissioner Chicowski.

18:53>> Thank you. Yeah, just a a quick comment.

18:56I think [clears throat] a thing that is

18:57under discussed in my opinion here and

18:59and and municipal governments broadly is

19:01the cost of moving slowly. There is a

19:03real cost to delaying. And so I think

19:05for that reason I would I would like us

19:06to move forward kind of based on the the

19:08comments from from staff. Um if that's

19:10something that folks would be open to.

19:15>> Thank you. Any other commissioner

19:17comments? I'm going to ask my questions.

19:19They're a little bit simpler. In article

19:22three, there is no notice sent out to

19:24renters. It's just a property owners.

19:28Is there any way we could get the

19:29renters included so they know what's

19:32going on?

19:34>> Yes.

19:35>> Even if that's not part of the North

19:36Carolina General Statute, I don't think

19:38it would be against the law. I can

19:40definitely look into seeing if we can

19:42incorporate that into the draft before

19:44it goes to the governing bodies for

19:46sure. We have a precedent for that in

19:48other parts of the ordinance.

19:50>> All right. And on article five, just to

19:52prove that I actually read it that

19:55refers to domestic chickens.

19:57>> Can is that wise or should we say hens

20:00because I don't think people want

20:01roosters running around, but if you want

20:03chickens that's fine also.

20:06>> Yes. So

20:08it's currently called domestic chickens

20:10right now because that's what it's

20:11called in that actual section of the

20:13ordinance lower. So we've just altered

20:16it from limited agriculture city only to

20:18domestic chickens so that it matches the

20:20other ordinance title which does state

20:23that you can't have roosters within the

20:25city limits. Um

20:28I see your point about semantics and

20:30that's something that we can definitely

20:31consider. Um it would just require

20:33bringing in that other section and just

20:34calling it hins as well.

20:37Thank you. That's all my questions. Um,

20:41uh, Commissioner Clemens, if you wanted

20:43to make a motion to

20:46postpone this, you can make a motion.

20:48Then it would have to be seconded and

20:50then we would have to vote on it.

20:53I'm personally in favor of moving

20:55forward on this this evening and having

20:59uh, city staff communicate with the

21:02attorney's office on the feedback we've

21:04received here tonight.

21:10Madame Chair, I would like to offer a

21:12motion that we continue this for further

21:14public comment and review.

21:18If I may, staff would ask that you uh

21:21post if you are going to postpone to

21:22postpone to a date certain

21:25um so that everyone knows what the date

21:27is that it would come back and we would

21:29not have to readvertise.

21:34Would that date be the next planning

21:35commission meeting?

21:37>> Would that date be the next planning

21:38commission meeting?

21:41>> It it could certainly be the next

21:42planning commission. You would just uh

21:44postpone it to or you would your motion

21:46would be to postpone to the November 10,

21:48I believe.

21:51>> Yes, the November 10th meeting.

21:54>> Okay. So, do I need to redo my motion?

21:58I'd like to make a motion to postpone

22:01this item until the November

22:0610th

22:07>> November 10th meeting before the

22:09commission.

22:11Commissioner Clemens has made a motion

22:14to postpone or delay this item for one

22:17cycle until the November 10th meeting.

22:19Is there a second?

22:27Seeing no second, the motion fails and

22:30we

22:32can now move to vote on the item as

22:35presented.

22:37>> Chair, regarding case

22:40omnibus 20ct

22:4326 quadruple 03. I move that we forward

22:48this case to city council with a

22:50favorable recommendation for approval.

22:53A second.

22:56>> It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

22:58and seconded by Commissioner Bailey to

23:00move this case TC26

23:04quadruple 03 omnibus 20 forward with a

23:07favorable recommendation. Please open

23:09the electronic voting.

23:27The motion passes 8 to one.

23:32Next item on the agenda, 6A, public

23:36hearings, zoning map changes, Thompson

23:40Village Z25026.

23:44May we have the staff report, please?

23:56Good evening, Chair Shagaras, Vice Chair

23:58Cameron, and planning commissioners. My

24:00name is Payton Burgess, and I am here

24:01tonight to present Z250026

24:05Thompson Village.

24:09The proposal requests to reszone seven

24:11parcels of land totaling approximately 4

24:13and a half acres from residential

24:15suburban 20 to plan development

24:17residential 4.161.

24:19This request was continued at the August

24:22planning commission meeting where the

24:24applicant was previously requesting to

24:25be reszoned to residential suburban

24:27multifamily with a development plan that

24:30would have allowed for up to 80 units.

24:32The newly requested PDR 4.161 zoning

24:36would allow for up to 19 dwelling units

24:38to either be single family detached,

24:40attached, townhouse, detached rowhouse,

24:43or duplexes.

24:47Again, the updated request is to reszone

24:49the existing residential suburban 20 to

24:51plan development residential 4.161.

24:54The site is currently surrounded by

24:56residential suburban 20.

25:00The aerial map shows the general

25:02location of the project.

25:08The property is designated mixed

25:09residential neighborhood on the place

25:11type map. The proposal was found to be

25:13consistent with the designated place

25:15type.

25:18The textual development plan has a

25:20variety of commitments that were heard

25:21at the August meeting. Since this case

25:23was last heard by the planning

25:24commission, the applicant has added

25:26commitments regarding yard minimums,

25:28garage setbacks, additional grading

25:30limitations, and remove the commitment

25:32to 5% tree coverage.

25:36The applicant held neighborhood meetings

25:38on March 11th, 2026 and July 27th, 2026.

25:42No community members attended the first

25:44and one attended the second. There have

25:46been two comments against this proposal

25:48received on the Durham Reszoning

25:49Explorer.

25:52The proposal is consistent with the

25:54designated place type map of mixed

25:55residential neighborhood and with 13 of

25:5821 applicable comprehensive plan

25:59policies. Though it should be noted that

26:02three of the policies are to be

26:03determined as the fiscal impact analysis

26:05and utility extension agreement are

26:07being completed. Thank you. Staff and

26:09the applicant are available to answer

26:11any questions.

26:13>> Thank you. The chair is now opening the

26:15public hearing. May we have the

26:16applicant, please?

26:28Good evening, Madame Chair and Planning

26:30Commission. My name is Lee Lambert. I

26:32live at 505 Yorktown Court, Chapel Hill,

26:35NC. I have extensive history of Durham.

26:39In fact, over 60 years ago, my

26:41grandfather helped my aunt buy this

26:43property. And I remember as about a

26:465-year-old a little while later helping

26:49build the house that's on the corner.

26:51[clears throat] I've met with neighbors.

26:53Um we actually had a third meeting and

26:56we've had three people come had did have

26:58three people come to that meeting.

27:01Um, I have listened to the concerns that

27:04were presented to you last time and we

27:07have made dramat dramatic or drastic

27:09reductions in potential zoning and

27:11potential densities, cutting it down to

27:1417 to 19 units. Uh, so it's much much

27:17much smaller, much uh more much less

27:21dense and I I think it will fit in with

27:24the community over there very well. I've

27:26been there all of my life and I think

27:28this will work and I'm trying to do

27:30something that Durham would be proud of,

27:32that I would be proud of, that my

27:34grandfather and my aunt would also be

27:37proud of.

27:48Thank you.

27:52There are no other community members.

27:55Are there any other community members

27:57that nobody signed up? Anybody else

27:59wishing to speak on this in the

28:01audience? Anybody on the Zoom wishing to

28:04speak on this item?

28:09I saw a hand raised at the back. Do you

28:12wish to speak on this item? Ma'am,

28:18>> please step to the podium and state your

28:20name and address.

28:32My name is Joyce Gregory and uh I live

28:35at 3904 Mary Martin Road which would be

28:38across from which the area he wants to

28:42develop. I uh have no objective to him

28:46developing it the way as long as they

28:50don't extend us into the city limits.

28:53That bothers me a lot because uh I've

28:57been in the county and I've had to pay

29:00to have my water ran and everything

29:02else. So, I don't want any added expense

29:05at this time in my life to just live it.

29:08[laughter]

29:09Uh so and most of the people around

29:11there near me are the same in the same

29:14boat. We have lived there 50 years. So

29:18that's my only uh thing about it is not

29:22putting more expense on us for we don't

29:24need it. when we uh

29:27[snorts and clears throat]

29:28and it's to be honest with you, Durham

29:30has turned into a mess. And I I'm sorry

29:35to say that, but it has. And it I don't

29:38see any anything changing at this time.

29:42But as far as him wanting to build

29:44those, yes, he did change that. And I

29:47agree that that's better than But I

29:50don't want to pay for sewer. I don't

29:51want to pay for more crap running down

29:54my road because there's enough traffic

29:56out there to for the uh they're going to

29:59build like 200 apartments out there and

30:02it just it's just ridiculous. I mean,

30:06there comes a time you have to put the

30:09uh

30:11horse before the cart. I mean, it's just

30:14I don't understand any of what they're

30:17trying to accomplish because these

30:20aren't lowincome housing places. If it

30:23was that, I might be more considerate

30:27there. If there's so many lowincome

30:29housing, how come there's people living

30:32on the tents and streets?

30:35So, I wish y'all would take that in

30:37consideration.

30:39Uh, but that's all. I don't care about

30:41the rest of it. If he wants to build

30:44those houses, that's fine. At least they

30:46can use a weed whacker.

30:52Thank you. And just as a matter of

30:55policy, the city does not do involuntary

30:58annexations. And so if they did approve

31:01this and annex it, it would not annex

31:05any of the adjacent

31:08properties unless they wanted to be

31:10annexed.

31:14Anybody on the Zoom wishing to speak on

31:17this item, Thompson Village, please

31:20raise your hand [clears throat] or if

31:22you're on a cell phone, star9.

31:30Nobody going once.

31:36Going twice. Gone.

31:39The public hearing is now closed. We are

31:42ready for commissioner discussion. Any

31:44commissioners have questions or

31:46comments.

31:52I have a question. We saw this one and

31:55you have come down from the houses and

31:57we wanted a specific number of houses

31:59and you have given us that number now.

32:01Thank you. Um, have you worked out the

32:04road? Because I believe at the last

32:07meeting there was no point of entry

32:10figured out and some of the concern was

32:13that the

32:15roads connecting to this would be small

32:18or insufficient. I just, you know, I'm

32:21more worried about uh emergency vehicles

32:24and EMS and stuff like that being able

32:27to access.

32:29>> Yes, ma'am. the my engineer is here and

32:32if and if I say anything wrong you just

32:34raise your hand and tell me but the road

32:36that is in Mary Martin road was paved

32:40five six seven eight year 10 years ago I

32:42don't know Miss Gregory will know um and

32:45it is of sufficient width it is a city

32:47street it meets um DOT standards um

32:50there everything that we do will be DOT

32:54approved and there with a vastly reduced

32:57number of homes there'll probably be one

32:59entrance I don't know exactly what the

33:01design will be, but we will certainly

33:03make it uh to be approved by the fire

33:06department, by emergency police,

33:09everything will be done. We're very

33:10close to a police substation. We're

33:12close to the um EMS and the school

33:16that's down the streets where my

33:18grandmother and my mother went and it's

33:19a good school.

33:24>> Okay. Thank you. Yes.

33:26>> Any other questions or comments on this

33:28case?

33:29>> We're all good. Okay. May I have a

33:31motion to move case Z25

33:35triple026

33:38Thompson Village forward with a

33:40favorable recommendation.

33:42Chair, regarding case

33:46Z250026

33:48Thompson Village, I move that we forward

33:50this case to the city council with a

33:52favorable recommendation for approval.

33:56I second.

33:58It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

34:01and seconded by Commissioner Bailey to

34:03move this case forward with a favorable

34:05recommendation. May we have the

34:07electronic voting, please?

34:22The motion passes 9 to zero.

34:30Next item on the agenda, Glenn School

34:33Road mixed juice Z25

34:36triple024.

34:38May we have the staff report, please?

34:41>> Thank you, Chair Shagarus. As you said,

34:43this item is Z 2500024

34:47Glen School Road mixed use.

34:54This site is located in the northwest

34:56quadrant of Glenn School Road and I 85.

34:59It is in the suburban tier and is

35:01pending annexation which is part of the

35:03application. The site is just over 180

35:06acres and is currently zoned

35:08residential, rural, and commercial

35:10neighborhood. The proposed zoning is

35:12industrial light with a textual devel

35:15I'm sorry with a development plan

35:17development residential 3.345

35:20and commercial neighborhood with a

35:22development plan. The place type is

35:25mixeduse neighborhood and staff is not

35:28recommending a change.

35:30The uh there are the FJB and MTC I85

35:36overlay zones on the site and the

35:39proposal is for 825,000

35:41ft of light industrial uses up to 235

35:45town houses and up to 20,000 ft of

35:48commercial uses.

35:52As you can see, the the site is

35:55predominantly rural residential at this

35:57time with a small portion of commercial

36:00neighborhood to the south of the site.

36:04The you can see where the locations of

36:06the [laughter]

36:09you can see where the locations of the

36:10three different districts are. The blue

36:12is the prian development residential

36:15which is where the town houses would be.

36:17The light purple is the industrial light

36:20area to the east closest to I 85. And

36:23then close to the interchange of Glen

36:25School Road and I 85 would be the

36:27commercial section in that red area.

36:33The aerial map shows the location uh

36:35with some residential uses to the west.

36:37As you can see, I 85 to the east of the

36:40site.

36:44As mentioned before, the place type

36:45designation would not change. This is

36:47mixeduse neighborhood on the place type

36:49map with some recreation and open space

36:52uh accommodating for flood plane on the

36:54site. [snorts]

36:57There are a number of commitments on the

37:01site and these are mostly segregated by

37:04zoning district, proposed zoning

37:06district. There are a handful of

37:08commitments that would apply to the

37:09entire site. You can see these here.

37:13And then on the next slide, we will see

37:15the

37:17on the next slide you will see the uh

37:19commitments that are given for or

37:22proposed for each of the three districts

37:26that would be on the site.

37:32The northern half of the site, as I

37:33mentioned, it's just over 180 acres, so

37:35it is sizable. Uh this is the northern

37:38half of the site. That red line is

37:40separating the PDR, the residential area

37:44from the ILD, the light industrial area

37:47to the east. The building and uh parking

37:51envelope does stay outside of the flood

37:54plane that is indicated on the site.

37:59Uh this is the southern half with the

38:01interchange with I 85 and Glenn School

38:04Road with the commercial shown. One

38:06other thing you can also see is that

38:08intercross road would be realigned to be

38:13intersect with Glenn School farther up

38:15uh farther from the interchange for

38:18safety uh purposes.

38:22Neighborhood meetings were held in

38:24accordance with the neighborhood meeting

38:25guidelines on August 27th, 2025 and

38:28September 22nd, 2026. There were 15

38:31attendees at each meeting. Three

38:34comments have been uh submitted to the

38:36dorm resoning explorer for this case.

38:38All of them against the proposal.

38:42As mentioned before, the proposal is

38:43consistent with the place type

38:44designations of mixeduse neighborhood

38:47and recreation and open space and is

38:49consistent with 16 of 24 applicable

38:52comprehensive plan policies. Staff and

38:54the applicant are here to answer any

38:56questions.

38:59>> Thank you. The chair is now opening the

39:01public hearing. May we have the

39:02applicant, please?

39:11>> Good evening, Chairwoman Shagaras, Vice

39:12Chair Cameron, members of the planning

39:14commission. I'm Patrick Biker. I live at

39:162614 Stewart Drive. I'm an attorney with

39:19Morning Star Law Group, and I'm here

39:20tonight representing Smith Douglas, a

39:22fine townhouse builder and Traml Crow

39:25Company, a class A light industrial

39:27developer. In the top right corner of

39:29this slide, you can see a building Traml

39:31Crow Company recently built outside of

39:33Charlotte to see the type of quality we

39:35wish to build at Glen School Road. It

39:37has been a pleasure to represent these

39:39two outstanding companies collaborating

39:42on this mixeduse development. With me

39:45tonight are Caroline Cheese, our traffic

39:47engineer with DRMP, Preston Royster, our

39:50civil engineer with Thomas and Hutton,

39:52our townhouse leader with Smith Douglas,

39:54is Tyler Gould. And we also have Michael

39:56Lewis with Traml Crow Company, our

39:59business park developer.

40:02I first want to address the mixeduse

40:03neighborhood place type that governs the

40:05ballpark 180 acres we're discussing

40:07tonight.

40:09While I think this community did a great

40:11job moving forward with the adoption of

40:13our comprehensive plan three years ago,

40:15I would have to say the mixeduse

40:17neighborhood place type is probably the

40:18most difficult place type to comply with

40:20fully.

40:22and I think this project complies with

40:24it very very well. Our team has been

40:27working together for many months and it

40:29is rare that I can present a development

40:31plan that implements three uses

40:33industrial, commercial and residential

40:35like this one does. Out of that 180

40:38acres, about 100 acres are proposed to

40:40be industrial light zoning in order to

40:42create a class A business park. It is

40:46very important for Durham's economic

40:47development to maintain a steady supply

40:50of class A and light industrial space so

40:52Durham can attract new jobs and perhaps

40:54even more important provide space for

40:56our local businesses to thrive and

40:59expand. It's been my privilege over the

41:01past few years to work on the Scanel

41:03properties 200 acre 1.2 million square

41:06foot business park located at Junction

41:08Road and Feral Road and that is about

41:10one mile south of tonight's Glen School

41:12Road development. I also greatly enjoyed

41:14working on Welcome Venture Park on

41:16Hamlin Road which has 160 acres and 1.2

41:19million square feet and that's about 2

41:21miles northwest of tonight's Glen School

41:24Road proposal. I mention this because

41:26Scanel and Welcome Venture Park are very

41:28successful, but they probably will be

41:30fully built out in a couple more years.

41:32And so it would be a solid community

41:34benefit for the Glen School Road

41:36Business Park to becoming online at that

41:38time to to provide growth opportunities

41:41in order to keep our local economy

41:43strong.

41:45I'd like to briefly address why this 180

41:48acres lays out so well with the

41:49development plan we are looking at

41:51tonight. The stream that divides the

41:53Traml Crow Company Business Park from

41:55the Smith Douglas town homes creates a

41:57200 foot buffer between these two uses.

42:00I want I want to contrast that 200 foot

42:02buffer with a project I worked on over

42:0420 years ago when I was the attorney for

42:07Keystone Development. Over 20 years ago,

42:10we brought forward an infill residential

42:12neighborhood of town houses and small

42:14single lot family detached called

42:16Keystone Crossing located between

42:18Keystone Business Park along Davis Drive

42:20and the railroad tracks south of Hopson

42:22Road close to RTP. As you can see on

42:25this slide, the spacing between the

42:26industrial buildings that were built

42:28first at Keystone and the new homes in

42:30Keystone Crossing that came second, that

42:33spacing is only about 90 ft. Keystone

42:36Crossing has been very successful and we

42:38have more than double that spacing you

42:40see here between the light industrial

42:42and the residential at Glen School Road.

42:46Next, a major community benefit if we

42:49are fortunate to have this resoning

42:50approved will be the realignment of

42:52Intercross Road so that it no longer

42:54crosses the off-ramp of Interstate 85,

42:57which you can see on this slide. Our TIA

43:00was reviewed for quite a few months by

43:02NC DOT and NC DOT has approved the

43:05realignment of Intercross Road shown on

43:08this slide. Accordingly, approval of

43:11this resoning will create much safer

43:13traffic conditions than exist today. And

43:16it's important to look at the traffic

43:18volumes in this area. On page seven of

43:19your staff report, you can see both

43:21Glenn Road and Glenn School Road are

43:24under capacity.

43:26Last, I want to touch on the retail and

43:28the residential. Our 10 acres of retail

43:30is owned by a group of older Durham

43:32families who are very longtime property

43:33owners. They have not identified any

43:35endusers at this time, but we think that

43:3810 acres of retail close to I 85 is

43:40another benefit for the community and

43:42the new town houses that we have

43:44proposed in this development.

43:46And now to close, I want to talk about

43:48the what I think is incredible text

43:52commitment Smith Douglas has made about

43:53the price point of every one of the more

43:56than 200 town homes that will be built

43:59here. Every townhouse, no exceptions,

44:03will be available at a sales price that

44:05is affordable to folks making 80% of our

44:07area median income. I recall about seven

44:11or eight years ago when Durham was first

44:13starting to grapple with our affordable

44:14housing problem that I was in a meeting

44:16with former deputy city attorney Don Oul

44:19who said to me that developers could

44:21address the affordability problem with a

44:23tax commitment that would lock in a

44:24certain price.

44:27I told Don that would never happen

44:29because it takes so long to get through

44:31the entitlements process that no home

44:33builder could figure out how to price a

44:35townhouse that would not be built for

44:37another couple of years given how

44:39unpredictable building costs and

44:40interest rates are. Well, I was wrong.

44:44It wasn't the first time. And so despite

44:46today's volatility of building costs,

44:49fuel costs, and interest rates, Smith

44:51Douglas has put forward a tax commitment

44:53in this development plan so that every

44:55single townhouse sold, be it in 2028 or

44:582029, will be affordable to people

45:00earning 80% of our area median income.

45:03Today, that translates to a price point

45:05in the low to mid300s. It is important

45:08to recognize that you could live in

45:09affordable housing your whole life and

45:11never create any generational wealth.

45:15And you can see that putting these town

45:17houses next to a business park where

45:20maybe some townhouse residents could

45:22walk to work along with an elementary

45:24school that's nearby, shopping that's

45:25nearby, and other community assets. We

45:28can build what I think is the best

45:31project I've ever worked on in my 32

45:33years to create generational wealth for

45:36Durm residents. For all these reasons,

45:38we respectfully ask for your

45:39recommendation of approval. Our team

45:41will be happy to answer any questions.

45:43Thank you. like to reserve the balance

45:44of my time.

45:49>> Thank you.

45:53Community members in person wishing to

45:56speak on this item. Jose

46:00Martinez.

46:24Hello everyone.

46:25[cough and clears throat] Hello

46:26everyone. My name is Jose Martinez Mahia

46:28and I live at 641 North Hardy Street.

46:31For those who have for those of us who

46:33have lived and or have called Durham our

46:36home for the last 20 years, we know the

46:38hard truth. There just haven't been many

46:40affordable new town homes built for

46:42sale. The shortage has made the shortage

46:44has made it really tough for young

46:46people like me become homeowners in a

46:48city we love. We I grew up right here in

46:50Durham. I graduated from Southern High

46:52School in 2018. I've been working in

46:54residential construction for several

46:56years now, swinging a hammer and

46:58learning the trade every day. I have

47:00been carefully saving my hard-earned

47:02money because I have one clear goal, to

47:04put down roots and finally buy a home of

47:06my own and my glorious city of Durham.

47:09These new town homes along Glenn School

47:11Road are exactly the kind of opportunity

47:12young people like me need. They're

47:14affordable, they're close to jobs, and

47:16they're right by a grocery store. For

47:18someone like me, that location makes

47:19home ownership actually possible and

47:21convenient. More than anything, I want

47:23to stay in the city I grew up in, close

47:25to my family and the friends who have

47:26been with me through everything. So, I'm

47:28asking all of you tonight, please go the

47:29extra mile. Support this mixeduse

47:32project. Give you residents a real

47:34chance to become Durham homeowners just

47:36like so many of you have been just like

47:39so many of you have been able to do.

47:41Thank you for your time.

47:45>> Thank you. Any other in person? Nobody

47:48else has signed up wishing to speak on

47:50this item? No. Anybody on the Zoom

47:53wishing to speak on this item?

47:56Marshall Boon,

48:03>> can you hear me, madam?

48:05>> Yes, please state your address for the

48:08record.

48:09>> My address at this point is 2406 Turtle

48:13Bay Drive in Newburn.

48:16Uh, I've have been a property owner on

48:19Glenn School Road since the early 1980s.

48:23Yes. 40 years. And the property west of

48:28I5 on Glenn School Road is essentially

48:31unchanged for those 40 years. Has been

48:34no development to speak of whatsoever.

48:37Now, it looks like Snook Douglas is

48:39going to finally make it happen. I want

48:42to express my strong support for this

48:45zoning map change so this project can

48:48move forward. I don't know of any losers

48:51in this project. To me, it sounds like a

48:55win-win, but I thank you for the

48:57opportunity to make my comments this

48:59afternoon and I wish you well.

49:04>> Thank you,

49:06Eveise Vargas.

49:18Hi there. Can you hear me? All right.

49:21>> Yes. Please state your address for the

49:23record.

49:24>> Great. Thank you. My name's Eve Vargas.

49:26I'm at 11-11 Merlin Street. So, just

49:28south of this development. Um uh and at

49:33this new development called Griffin

49:34Place, so just just south of that site

49:36off of East Gear Street. not here to uh

49:39to oppose the project. Uh was just

49:41thinking of some things that could maybe

49:43improve kind of the development as uh

49:45the iterations come. Uh because I think

49:48jobs next to ownership housing is is

49:50awesome and the right idea for this

49:52corridor. Mostly just asking to think

49:54about a few commitments and thoughts. Um

49:57one of those is just wondering if there

49:59if it would be possible for the

50:00industrial half to make a community

50:02contribution. I know that there are no

50:05tenants currently. Um, but I also know

50:07that some of the other developments in

50:09the area have been able to achieve and

50:12receive greater contributions um than I

50:14think this one. I think this one has a

50:16$25,000 school contribution and I think

50:18the the Lee VA the Lee Village and

50:22Picket Road one uh received uh you know

50:25community contributions in the hundreds

50:27of thousands of dollars. Um, and then

50:29the fourth piece is, um, I know the

50:32gentleman who spoke before me had

50:33mentioned a a supermarket. Um, and that

50:36was one of the things that we discussed

50:37on the meeting, uh, in September. So, I

50:39was just curious kind of if there could

50:41be some more inquiries into the kinds of

50:44businesses that would come into the

50:4520,000 square feet of commercial space.

50:48Um, because I do think a supermarket of

50:49some sort would be awesome um, if it

50:51could be built there. Um yeah, those are

50:54really my comments, but um you know,

50:55supportive and and have appreciated uh

50:58the way the the team has uh engaged with

51:00us uh as community members. So, thank

51:02you.

51:05Thank you. Anybody else on the Zoom

51:07wishing to speak? Please

51:11raise your hand or press a star 9 if

51:13you're on a cell phone.

51:201 562 3741341

51:26please state your name and address.

51:32>> Hi there. Uh can you repeat what you

51:35said? Um I have my phone muted.

51:39>> Yes, we can hear you. Please state your

51:41name and address for the record.

51:44>> Uh yes, my name is Cindy. I am at 305

51:48Long Drive. Um, I just received notice.

51:52Uh, we're I I was able to make to the

51:54September notice and then I'm here on

51:57for this notice. I do just have a

51:59concern. I live in the new Glenn uh

52:02crossing development um town home

52:05development and I did see on the

52:07planning that there would be access uh

52:10public access through Pino Road. Um, but

52:15I'm just kind of concerned on that piece

52:18because there's another public access

52:20entrance on Glenn Road. So, I'm just I'm

52:23just questioning why they would need to

52:25kind of go through the Glen Crossing

52:27neighborhood.

52:29Um, yeah, I just kind of wanted that

52:31clarified. Um, thank you.

52:36Thank you. Anybody else on the Zoom,

52:40please raise your hand

52:43or star nine if you're on a cell phone?

52:52Nope. Nobody. Going once,

52:56[clears throat] going twice.

53:00Okay. Could the applicant please respond

53:02to some of these concerns?

53:04>> Yes, certainly. Um, I do want to draw

53:06the

53:08planning commission's attention to the

53:10number of uses that have been eliminated

53:13from the commercial and industrial so

53:15that any noxious uses [snorts] are

53:18struck off. And I do want to um clarify

53:20one point in regards to policy 88 that

53:23was mentioned in your staff report. U we

53:26wish to profer a text commitment that no

53:28uses requiring a special use permit

53:31shall be allowed in the aisle district.

53:33So that means no uh auto repair auto

53:36salvage yards would be allowed within

53:38this development in order to be a good

53:40neighbor. I also want to emphasize um a

53:44profer on to address policy 80. Uh that

53:47is we will provide a 20 foot.04 opacity

53:50buffer along the northern property line

53:52of REID 169415 and that's adjacent to

53:56the LB Creek WHED association parcel so

53:59that we comply with policy 80. Uh in

54:02regards to uh the concern about Glen

54:04Crossing, I was the attorney for that uh

54:07the infrastructure uh issues with that

54:10neighborhood and all the connections

54:12that are being uh shown on our

54:14development plan are required by the

54:15UDO. Uh we need to build grid systems uh

54:18for our streets. Uh we should not be

54:20having culde-sacs any anymore to the

54:23extent possible. And so we certainly

54:26appreciate the concern, but everything

54:27that uh we're connecting to was laid out

54:30with the Glenn Crossing neighborhood uh

54:32back when I worked on it. And then I

54:34want to uh also emphasize something else

54:36about Smith Douglas um um in terms of

54:40sustainability. Uh they have a great

54:42track record as a Duke Energy hero and

54:44show that that will be how we comply

54:46with policy 49. So uh I realize there

54:49are no perfect projects, but I think

54:51this one checks about as many boxes as

54:53you can. uh for a mixeduse neighborhood

54:56that's uh again has a lot of

54:58prescriptive elements in our

55:00comprehensive plan that our team has

55:01worked on very diligently and again we

55:04respectfully ask your approval. Our team

55:05will be happy to answer any further

55:07questions. Thank you.

55:10>> Thank you. The public [clears throat]

55:11hearing is now closed. We're open for

55:13commissioner discussion. Are there

55:15questions or comments from the

55:17commissioners? Commissioner W.

55:20>> Thank you. I So I'm sorry I didn't hear

55:24um for the um policy 80, how big of a

55:29buffer did you just proper? What was the

55:31buffer?

55:31>> Yeah. Yeah. Um if I could show you the

55:33slide, Commissioner W, let me show you.

55:37Um

55:38yeah, here it is. Uh if you look at the

55:41top of the yellow um uh PDR zoning, uh

55:45the very top where the yellow and the

55:47purple come together, uh that parcel to

55:49the north of us is a uh is owned by the

55:52Elerby Creek and so we are committing to

55:54a 20 foot uh point4 opacity buffer along

55:59that common property line

56:01and that will comply with policy 80.

56:05>> Um sorry I have another question. So

56:08policy 82 um requests a 600 foot stream

56:13buffer

56:15and I know that that is not

56:17>> yeah that would be our entire PDR site.

56:19So we wouldn't be able to be a mixeduse

56:21project if we had a 300 foot buffer

56:23there.

56:24>> And you know I'm gonna ask this 50%

56:27natives. Can we go up?

56:29>> Preston, do you have any thoughts on

56:31that?

56:35>> Yeah, we we'll certainly investigate it

56:37before city council, but we haven't had

56:38a chance to evaluate that.

56:40>> Thank you.

56:44>> Any other commissioners

56:46questions or comments?

56:50Nope. I have uh the the staff report

56:53says the development plan does not

56:55include additional protections adjacent

56:58to the Ellerby Creek wershed association

57:00managed area, but it's a different REID

57:03number 168861.

57:06Does that have to do

57:07>> that's the one adjacent to it. Our pro

57:09our site that we can commit to is

57:11169415. So we'll word smith that with

57:14Mr. Kane later this week, but we agree

57:16with that and we'll address it with a 20

57:18foot 0.04 opacity buffer. Good.

57:21>> So there will be additional protections

57:24>> correct

57:24>> for this

57:26>> right above what the UDO requires.

57:28That's correct.

57:28>> An additional stream buffer widths

57:30across the perennial streams any extra

57:33possible. No, we're we're comfortable

57:36with the 200 foot that'll be in place as

57:38the appropriate uh separation between

57:41the PDR and the and the IL. And that

57:44again is based on the case I worked on

57:46over 20 years ago that I shared with the

57:48commission.

57:50>> Okay. Do we need those profers written

57:52down or do you already have those Aaron?

57:56>> I have those and I discussed those with

57:58Patrick prior to the meeting so we're

58:00aware.

58:03>> Excellent. Thank you.

58:04>> Okay.

58:06May I have a motion to move case Z25

58:10triple024 Glenn School Road mixed

58:13forward with the favorable

58:14recommendation.

58:17Chair regarding case Z25 Triple024 Glenn

58:22School Road mixeduse. I move that we

58:25forward this case forward to the city

58:26council with a favorable recommendation

58:29for approval.

58:34Second.

58:37It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

58:40and seconded by Commissioner

58:46Pontac

58:48to move this case forward with a

58:49favorable recommendation. May we have

58:51the electronic voting, please?

59:07The motion passes 8 to one.

59:10>> Thank you very much. We appreciate your

59:12time.

59:15>> Next item on the agenda is

59:19Mosby Bragtown Z25047.

59:24May we have the staff report, please?

59:36Good evening, Chair Shakaris, Vice Chair

59:38Cameron, and Planning Commissioners.

59:40Pton Burgess here again tonight to

59:42present Z250047

59:45Mosby Bragtown.

59:51The request is to reszone approximately

59:5313.3 acres located at 200 and 500 Berwin

59:57Avenue, 320 and 606 Belvin Avenue, and

1:00:013200 Dominion Street from residential

1:00:03urban 5 to plan development residential

1:00:0622.414

1:00:08to allow for up to 299 apartment units.

1:00:14Again, the existing zoning is

1:00:16residential urban 5 and the request is

1:00:18for plan development residential 22.414.

1:00:21The site is surrounded by mostly

1:00:23residential urban 5 with some commercial

1:00:25neighborhood, residential suburban 8 and

1:00:27commercial general also adjacent to the

1:00:29site.

1:00:32The aerial map shows the general

1:00:33location of the project which is in the

1:00:35Bragtown area.

1:00:39The property is primarily designated

1:00:41mixed residential neighborhood on the

1:00:43place type map and the proposal was

1:00:45found to be consistent with the

1:00:47designated place type. Also, I said it's

1:00:49primarily it is all designated mixed

1:00:51residential neighborhood on the place

1:00:52type map. Sorry about that.

1:00:55The application profers a variety of

1:00:57commitments including 5% of the units

1:01:00affordable at 80% AMI for 30 years, a

1:01:03minimum street yards, a maximum of 60 ft

1:01:06and building height, a maximum of 60%

1:01:09impervious surface, a minimum of 10%

1:01:11tree coverage, all required plantings to

1:01:14be native species. Buildings with four

1:01:16or more stories must have an elevator.

1:01:19Um, a publicly accessible recreation

1:01:21amenity. $4,000 to Durham public schools

1:01:24and off-site sidewalk.

1:01:28The applicant held neighborhood meetings

1:01:29on April 2nd, 2026 and September 3rd,

1:01:322026. Eight community members attended

1:01:35the first and two attended the second.

1:01:38There have been no comments regarding

1:01:39this proposal received on the Dur Durham

1:01:42reszoning explorer.

1:01:44The proposal is consistent with the

1:01:46designation of mixed residential

1:01:47neighborhood and with 12 of 16

1:01:49applicable comprehensive plan policies.

1:01:51I do want to note that this is different

1:01:53than your staff reports because policy

1:01:5682, which is about additional buffering

1:01:58for perennial streams, is currently

1:02:00listed as not being met. The applicant

1:02:02has provided documentation that the

1:02:04stream on site is intermittent, so this

1:02:06policy is instead not applicable.

1:02:08Thank you. Staff and the applicant are

1:02:10available to answer any questions.

1:02:15>> Thank you. May we have the applicant,

1:02:18please?

1:02:23The chair is now opening the public

1:02:24hearing. Applicant, please.

1:02:26>> Thank you, Miss Burge, for your

1:02:28presentation. And good evening, Chair

1:02:29Shagaras, Vice Chair Cameron, members of

1:02:31the planning commission. I'm Neil Go, an

1:02:33attorney with the Morning Star Law Group

1:02:35at 700 West Main Street here in Durham.

1:02:37And I'm pleased to be joined by Mr.

1:02:38Preston Royster with Thomas and Hutton

1:02:40and our representation of the property

1:02:42owners for this Mosby Bracktown project.

1:02:46Before I begin, I do want to ask Mr.

1:02:48Singh from the ownership group to say a

1:02:50few words about his family's history

1:02:51here in Durham and their vision for this

1:02:53project. Mr. Singh.

1:02:56>> Thank you. Good evening chair and

1:02:59commissioners. My name is Sai Paul Singh

1:03:02and I represent Prairie Shore Partners,

1:03:04the property owner and my family in

1:03:07support of Mosby Bragtown.

1:03:11Looking at me, you would never guess I'm

1:03:13a fourth generation US citizen on both

1:03:15sides of my family.

1:03:17Our family's connection to Braggtown

1:03:20goes back almost 40 years. My

1:03:24grandparents Dr. Manone Singh and Ji

1:03:27Singh who are here with us tonight

1:03:31came to this country America in 1967

1:03:35with $26 in their pockets and a

1:03:39determination to build a life through

1:03:41medicine and selfless service, a tenant

1:03:44of our sick faith.

1:03:46My grandparents still live in the home

1:03:48that they built 50 years ago. For me, it

1:03:52holds a lifetime of happy family

1:03:54memories.

1:03:56But when they built that life in

1:03:58Smithfield, just two miles from their

1:04:01home, stood a Ku Klux Clan billboard

1:04:04that said, "Welcome to Smithfield. This

1:04:07is clan country. Love it or leave it."

1:04:10Imagine caring for the community sick

1:04:13and injured, raising your children

1:04:15there,

1:04:17and passing a sign each day that

1:04:19reminded you you're just now welcome and

1:04:22you don't belong. My grandparents recall

1:04:26how in 1982 at a restaurant near their

1:04:29home, our family and sick friends were

1:04:32badly harassed inside a restaurant by

1:04:35local clansmen. Those men's those men

1:04:38even took the far extent of shooting

1:04:41shots from a gun

1:04:43at my grandfather's car. My

1:04:46grandparents, you know, believe it or

1:04:48not, that same night along with their

1:04:51local friends and family decided the

1:04:54idea to build the gudoir outside of

1:04:57Johnston County, our sheik temple. This

1:05:00encounter with the KKK shaped their

1:05:02determination to establish a place where

1:05:05they could worship, gather, and feel

1:05:08safe. Durham became that place. Bragtown

1:05:12became that place. My grandparents

1:05:15established with two families and have

1:05:19built and sustained our gdwara, the seek

1:05:22temple here in Braggtown for the last 40

1:05:25years. Four generations of my family on

1:05:28both sides have worshiped at that

1:05:31Braggtown Goodwa. For our family, it

1:05:35made us feel that finally we belonged. I

1:05:38speak for our family tonight. I share

1:05:41the history because it explains why

1:05:43Bragg means so much to us. But more

1:05:46importantly, it also reminds me that our

1:05:49story is not the only story that matters

1:05:51here.

1:05:52Bragtown's long-standing residents have

1:05:55built their own lives, memories, and

1:05:57institutions here. Its rich black

1:05:59history, its churches, and other places

1:06:02of worship, and the neighbors who have

1:06:04worked to sustain this community deserve

1:06:07respect. Our connection to this

1:06:09community deepens our responsibility to

1:06:11listen. Questions about traffic,

1:06:14drainage, construction, and children's

1:06:16safety deserves clear, substantive

1:06:19answers. Our [snorts]

1:06:23family's history cannot substitute for

1:06:25those answers. This application should

1:06:27be judged on its merits.

1:06:30We also want to be straightforward and

1:06:32truthful about our interest. This is a

1:06:35private investment and we want it to

1:06:37succeed.

1:06:39For us, success should include good

1:06:41housing and being a good, responsible

1:06:45neighbor who uplifts the community with

1:06:47us. Mosby Bragtown proposes additional

1:06:50homes, including affordable homes. An

1:06:53older person could have the opportunity

1:06:55to live closer to family and worship.

1:06:58Someone working nearby could live closer

1:07:00to work. A young adult could find a

1:07:03place to begin an independent life.

1:07:06Those possibilities extend across

1:07:09faiths, generations, and beliefs, and

1:07:12backgrounds.

1:07:14In his final speech, the great Dr.

1:07:16Martin Luther King Jr. said, "All we can

1:07:20say to America is be true to what you

1:07:24said on paper." I take those words

1:07:26literally and as a reminder of our own

1:07:29responsibilities. Our commitment should

1:07:31be clear. Our answers should be honest

1:07:34and the promises made in this process

1:07:36should be honored. We recognize that not

1:07:39everyone agrees with this proposal. We

1:07:41remain willing to meet, listen, and work

1:07:44through concerns. My grandfather came

1:07:47here for an opportunity. I have grown up

1:07:50benefiting from the life he and my

1:07:52grandmother worked so hard to build. I

1:07:56feel a responsibility to use that

1:07:57opportunity for good. We hope to

1:08:00contribute to Braggtown through homes

1:08:03that serve people, an investment that

1:08:05strengthens the neighborhood, and a

1:08:07continuing relationship with a community

1:08:09that has melt meant so much to my

1:08:11family. We respectfully request a

1:08:13favorable recommendation on Mosby

1:08:15Bragtown and I thank you for your time

1:08:17this evening.

1:08:20>> Thank you, Mr. Singh. Little longer than

1:08:22two minutes we talked about. I'll try to

1:08:24get through through what I've got here.

1:08:26Um,

1:08:27>> so I hope you'll bear with me because

1:08:28there is a lot to cover and we have a

1:08:30fair number of changes as well. Some of

1:08:31these are due to some more recent

1:08:32changes that were adopted by the city

1:08:34council uh with respect to the

1:08:36application and language of comp plan

1:08:38policies. Uh and other changes are

1:08:40driven by extensive community engagement

1:08:42we've conducted around this project. In

1:08:44addition to the two required

1:08:45neighborhood meetings, we've had several

1:08:46in-person and virtual meetings and email

1:08:48exchanges with members of the Bragtown

1:08:50community uh and the Gurudara. Um we

1:08:54also have been actively engaged in the

1:08:55city small area planning efforts uh for

1:08:57Btown community. So I'll start with some

1:08:59of the great commitments that are

1:09:00already in the application. On the

1:09:02environmental front, we have a

1:09:04commitment that limits the impervious to

1:09:05no more than 60%. We also have a

1:09:07commitment to using native plants. And

1:09:09we've committed to coverage, tree

1:09:11coverage that is in excess of UDO

1:09:13requirements. But perhaps most

1:09:14importantly on the environmental front

1:09:16is our commitment to handle the existing

1:09:18contamination on the site. Evidently,

1:09:20when the site was used as a school, um

1:09:22there was an on-site underground storage

1:09:24tank for heating oil which leaked. It

1:09:27was actually my clients who discovered

1:09:29the contamination and reported to DEEQ.

1:09:32The state has a program um that monitors

1:09:35this type of contamination. So, the

1:09:38contamination will be subject to that

1:09:39program. As part of this project, we're

1:09:41going to deal with the contamination as

1:09:43provided for within the state program.

1:09:45And I think we can all agree that

1:09:47cleaning up past environmental

1:09:49contamination is always a good thing.

1:09:51Now, I'll touch on some of the things

1:09:52that are changing. Uh I guess I can

1:09:54stick on the environmental theme for

1:09:55now. We already have a commitment

1:09:57related to green building techniques,

1:09:59specifically committing to utilizing the

1:10:00Energy Star multifamily new construction

1:10:02program, but recent guidance from the

1:10:05planning department suggests that this

1:10:06commitment may not be enforceable by the

1:10:08planning department uh as a zoning

1:10:11condition because of uh the the timing

1:10:14of the certification.

1:10:16So, that being the case, we're going to

1:10:17remove that commitment as a zoning

1:10:19condition and replace it with something

1:10:21that planning can enforce. Uh we're

1:10:23committing to providing a minimum of 10

1:10:25publicly accessible level two or higher

1:10:27EV charging spaces within the community

1:10:30and I think that's probably the

1:10:31strongest EV charging commitment I've

1:10:32seen on a res resoning. Additionally, we

1:10:35are also making commitment to locate

1:10:37some amount of open space or tree

1:10:38coverage contiguous with environmentally

1:10:40sensitive areas on the property which

1:10:43speaks to specific guidance in the comp

1:10:45plan. We also will commit to at least

1:10:47one green storm water measure in our

1:10:48initial site plan. that might be a green

1:10:51roof, bio swell, rain garden, bio

1:10:53retention pond, perable paver, something

1:10:55like that. Uh we haven't quite figured

1:10:57out, but we will make that commitment

1:10:58tonight as well. Um and that's being

1:11:01responsive to changes uh to the comp

1:11:04plan language for policy 108. And we

1:11:07have a commitment, we will add a

1:11:08commitment to handle the 100red-year

1:11:09storm. And then I finally, I want to

1:11:11touch on some things that are already in

1:11:13the application but need some

1:11:14adjustment. I think one of the strongest

1:11:16commitments we have here um is the

1:11:18commitment to provide a publicly

1:11:20accessible amenity on the property. The

1:11:22way that condition is written, it would

1:11:23be for a pickle ball court. The latest

1:11:25feedback we received from the community

1:11:27on this is that publicly accessible

1:11:29amenity would be a positive, but pickle

1:11:31ball ain't it. So, we want to adjust the

1:11:34condition just to take out any reference

1:11:36to pickle ball. We'll keep the existing

1:11:38dimensional requirements and that type

1:11:39of thing, but rather than call it pickle

1:11:41ball, we'll just not as being a publicly

1:11:42accessible amenity. We also want to

1:11:44increase our commitment to DPS from

1:11:464,000 to 7,000. And just to clarify some

1:11:49of the language on the multi-use path

1:11:51going to make sure that for Burwin that

1:11:53multi-use path will be provided where we

1:11:55are improving Burwin along our frontage.

1:11:58Uh and additionally there was a

1:12:00commitment that we added from a BPAC

1:12:02suggestion about sidewalks remaining

1:12:03flush across the driveway. The staff

1:12:06report has it correct. We meant all

1:12:07driveways but the condition is written

1:12:09in a way that suggests it's only for one

1:12:10driveway. We meant any. And that was

1:12:12just a typo on our on our part. And

1:12:14finally, we're changing our affordable

1:12:16housing commitment from what it

1:12:17currently says to the UDO definition of

1:12:19affordable housing. 5% of the units will

1:12:22be offered as affordable units under the

1:12:24UDO definition. So on a rental project

1:12:26like this, that means 60% AMI. Uh I know

1:12:29that's a lot to digest in a short amount

1:12:31of time, but I'm out.

1:12:37>> Thank you. Community members in person.

1:12:41Uh, Matt, we'll start with number one,

1:12:43Matt Palm.

1:12:51>> Uh, good evening everyone. My name is

1:12:52Matt Palm. I live at 2920 Chapel Hill

1:12:56Road in Hope Valley. Uh, I'm also a

1:12:58professor of city planning at UNCC

1:13:00Chapel Hill. I teach a graduate course

1:13:02where students provide technical

1:13:04assistance to community- based

1:13:05organizations in small towns. And this

1:13:08semester, four of our lovely students

1:13:09had the opport the privilege to work

1:13:11with the BCA, the Bragtown Community

1:13:13Association, to document residents

1:13:16concerns about this resoning and

1:13:17investigate relevant data. And they've

1:13:19prepared a memo that I shared with

1:13:21someone over there who said, "Yes, thank

1:13:23you." Oh, yay. Okay. Thank you. Um,

1:13:26however, my comments uh tonight in

1:13:28person are my own. Um, you know, as a

1:13:3130-some who still doesn't own own a home

1:13:33yet, I very much understand that Durham

1:13:35needs housing and I understand that

1:13:38growth can bring new neighbors and new

1:13:40investment and new opportunities. Um,

1:13:42but growth also makes long-standing

1:13:44unmet infrastructure needs just much

1:13:47much much more apparent. Um, so for

1:13:50example, using city data, uh, I've

1:13:52calculated that Durham has about a half

1:13:54mile of sidewalk for every mile of

1:13:56roadway in the city. But in Braggtown

1:13:59that neighborhood or um in Braggtown

1:14:01that uh ratio is just.3. So about a

1:14:04third of a mile of sidewalk per mile of

1:14:06roadway. And um I haven't investigated

1:14:10but I would imagine that there are other

1:14:12disparities in terms of the

1:14:13infrastructure that's been provided to

1:14:14Bragtown as opposed to other

1:14:16communities. And so these gaps are not

1:14:19new and neither are residents concerns

1:14:21about safety uh traffic safety in

1:14:23particular.

1:14:24Um, and my main concern is that Bragtown

1:14:27is uh frequently being asked to

1:14:29accommodate substantial growth while its

1:14:32long-standing infrastructure needs

1:14:33remain unmet. And I understand that that

1:14:36is much bigger than this particular

1:14:38conversation. Uh so I hope the

1:14:39commission will consider uh not only

1:14:41whether the proposal satisfies existing

1:14:43requirements but how we can ensure that

1:14:46growth makes Braggtown safer, more

1:14:48connected and more livable uh for both

1:14:52current residents and newcomers and

1:14:54future residents as well. So thank you.

1:14:57>> Thank you. Constance right.

1:15:14Good evening. My name is Constance

1:15:16Wright and I live in the Red Maple Park

1:15:18community of Bragtown and I'm here to

1:15:21ask you to deny the approval of the

1:15:23reszoning for the Mosby um Braggtown

1:15:26Apartments, 299 apartments um in the

1:15:30Belvin Street area. uh in addition to

1:15:33approximately 654 apartments and houses

1:15:37that have been built or will be built um

1:15:41are SK I'm sorry that have been built

1:15:44which is S Kofa Landing or will

1:15:46scheduled to be built uh will cause

1:15:49apartment overload

1:15:51in a less than one mile radius beginning

1:15:54at Roxboro Road and continuing down old

1:15:57Oxford Merryweather Dearbornne Berwin

1:16:00Belvin in in that area. If all the

1:16:03apartments and houses in that area

1:16:05become occupied and each household

1:16:07occupies two to four residents, which is

1:16:10the average household size, if all the

1:16:12new residents are filled, all the new

1:16:14apartments are filled, that would be

1:16:17approximately 1,97

1:16:19to 3,695

1:16:22new people living within that one mile

1:16:25radius. Picture that disaster waiting to

1:16:27happen. Others have already spoken or

1:16:30will speak on the extreme increase in

1:16:33traffic infrastructure and nightmares

1:16:35that will um because of bursting pipes,

1:16:39uh lack of walkability, the lack of safe

1:16:41spaces, and because of the new

1:16:43residents, but I want to speak on the

1:16:45lack of recreation also that will be in

1:16:48the area. One pickle ball court won't

1:16:51cut it, although it's been ro withdrawn,

1:16:54so that's a good thing. But there needs

1:16:56to be a recreation center built in the

1:16:58Bragtown community, preferably in the

1:17:00Red Maple Park area. There's already a

1:17:04great deal of crime in our city. Idle

1:17:06Mines will find something to entertain

1:17:08themselves, good or bad, mostly bad.

1:17:11With so many new people moving to the

1:17:13Bragtown area on top of the each other

1:17:17and mixed with the people who already

1:17:19live in the Bracktown area. Uh, okay.

1:17:24that you okay living in the Btown area

1:17:27on top of each other.

1:17:29>> Thank you.

1:17:30>> Okay.

1:17:32Anyway,

1:17:33>> so I'm asking you to um not approve it.

1:17:37>> Donna

1:17:38Frederick Friedrich.

1:17:47>> Good evening and thank you, Commission.

1:17:49My name is Donna Frederick and I live in

1:17:50Bracktown and I've lived there over 30

1:17:53years. Um, I'm coming to you. Uh, we've

1:17:57heard a lot about the transportation

1:17:59issue along the corridor and the

1:18:01transportation that will ensue with

1:18:04adding extra additional apartments. The

1:18:06key is that the 299 I know is the

1:18:09maximum that they can use according to

1:18:12the resoning of this particular parcel.

1:18:15But if you look around the residential

1:18:17area, the gridlock that would occur

1:18:20that's happening right now, it is very

1:18:22hard to get out on Roxboro Road from the

1:18:25four churches that are on the corridor

1:18:27or saw the apartments on Old Oxford

1:18:29Highway. We did submit to you some maps.

1:18:32We've been talking like for more than a

1:18:34year. Right now, it's very very

1:18:38difficult to move within that spaces.

1:18:41And if we have an emergency, can the EMS

1:18:44get in to serve the 299

1:18:47plus the 500 coming down the road? It's

1:18:50really a compact area. DOT has made some

1:18:54adjustments for sidewalk, but that is

1:18:56not impacting the the the volume that

1:18:59will come there. I think, you know, we

1:19:02need some more housing. I don't know if

1:19:05apartments

1:19:06at this rate is what we need right now

1:19:08in Bragtown. We need to have some

1:19:10residential people can grow. That's what

1:19:13we need for wealth. Thank you so much.

1:19:17>> Thank you, Vanessa Evans.

1:19:28>> Good evening everyone. I'm Vanessa Mason

1:19:30Evans. I stay at 3223 Dearborn Drive. My

1:19:34concerns would be that they have changed

1:19:36the um EMI to 60, which was what we were

1:19:41asking for. But at the same time, we

1:19:43would like to know if we could have it a

1:19:4630-year instead of a 30-year, a 60-year

1:19:48plan for those people that will be

1:19:49staying in those apartments because the

1:19:53the way things are changing in Durham as

1:19:55well as the income status, the the the

1:19:59rates are going up, but the income is

1:20:01not changing. In the data that we've

1:20:03gotten from three years ago, it was

1:20:05saying that people in Durham should be

1:20:07making 35 to $45 an hour. That's just

1:20:10people coming out of high school. So, a

1:20:11person coming from out of college should

1:20:13be making 50. I would like to say two

1:20:16when it comes down to the area of um

1:20:21which they're building. It started out

1:20:23at 160, but now it's at 299. So, I'm

1:20:26hoping that maybe they can lure some of

1:20:28it if they don't want to change it to

1:20:30housing instead of apartments because it

1:20:33is going to be a lot of traffic in that

1:20:34area. The other thing is I would like to

1:20:37see the school with Durham Tech. We've

1:20:40been doing a lot of work with Durham

1:20:41Tech and sending students from uh Lake

1:20:44View School and Northern High School. It

1:20:47takes $2,000 per student to go to Durham

1:20:51Tech. So, we would prefer that money

1:20:53going to Durham Tech so it can help

1:20:54people to get living wage jobs. So,

1:20:57we're asking for 50,000. Not saying

1:20:59we're going to get it, but what this

1:21:02what they're willing to give us right

1:21:03now is not going to put that many kids

1:21:05in school. And not just kids. We're

1:21:07hoping that it'll help adults be able to

1:21:09go to school as well in Braggtown and

1:21:11other surrounding areas of Durham. Thank

1:21:13you for your time.

1:21:16>> Thank you,

1:21:17Pat. Pat James.

1:21:22>> Hi, I'm Pat James. I'm in the Red Maple

1:21:25area. The proposal named three schools,

1:21:29Cub Boulevard, Brogden, and Riverside.

1:21:31None are in our district. According to

1:21:33the proposal, the one time 4,000 is for

1:21:35all the Durham public schools. The

1:21:37Durham public school students already

1:21:39don't have what they need for daily

1:21:40operations, and that would be adding 299

1:21:44apartments and lord knows how many more

1:21:46students. They offered the community

1:21:484,000 for the Durham public schools and

1:21:50as you heard the pickle ball court was

1:21:52shot down. We have had our share of

1:21:56projects adding to the problem and it's

1:21:58time for solutions and recent and really

1:22:01supporting our community. They also

1:22:03mentioned Red Maple Park which I open

1:22:05and close daily. There is no completed

1:22:07sidewalks leading from Red Maple Park to

1:22:10the new development for public to access

1:22:12safely. Supporting this project would

1:22:14not benefit

1:22:17our area because of all the other

1:22:19apartments and housing being built that

1:22:21created the traffic issues and increased

1:22:24property taxes we're already facing.

1:22:26Please vote against this apartment

1:22:28project building, especially that many

1:22:30apartments. Thank you.

1:22:35>> Thank you, Raj Rajinder Sanju.

1:22:40I probably butchered

1:22:46Good evening commissioners. My name is

1:22:48Raj Bender Singh and I'm serving as the

1:22:51president of the Sik Gardara Temple of

1:22:53North Carolina which is located at 3214

1:22:56Banner Street. I speak on behalf of our

1:22:59board and our congregation. Many of our

1:23:02members are here tonight and if you

1:23:05permit I ask them to stand.

1:23:11Thank you.

1:23:13So our guro is next door to this site.

1:23:16We have worshiped there since 1985.

1:23:20About 250 to 300 people come every

1:23:22Sunday. Many are elders, many are

1:23:25children. Goodw also holds weekday

1:23:28evening classes for the youth. I want to

1:23:31be clear on behalf of the congregation

1:23:33about what we are not saying. We are not

1:23:35against the housing or the affordable

1:23:37housing. We are not against the people

1:23:39who will live in these apartments. Our

1:23:42faith teaches us to welcome and to feed

1:23:44anyone who walks through our door and we

1:23:47will welcome them. Our objection to this

1:23:50application as it is written. I it asks

1:23:53you for 299 apartments 60 ft tall with

1:23:58buildings allowed 5 feet from the

1:24:00property line. The staff report runs

1:24:03many pages but it does not mention the

1:24:05guro ones.

1:24:07We have sent a letter to growth

1:24:11durhamnc.gov. So I was surprised that it

1:24:13mentioned that no comments have been

1:24:15received. Um

1:24:18that report was immediately shared with

1:24:20the uh the applicant's regal

1:24:22representative. We had highlighted eight

1:24:25specific commitments that would address

1:24:27these concerns. They are reasonable.

1:24:30They cover the driveway location,

1:24:32Bourban Avenue, a Sunday traffic count,

1:24:35a real setback and buffer, storm water,

1:24:38construction, lighting, and the

1:24:41petroleum cleanup. Uh we are willing to

1:24:43meet with the applicant and we are doing

1:24:45so in good faith. But tonight, none of

1:24:48those commitments are in the plan. So we

1:24:51ask you to recommend denial unless they

1:24:54are added before the case reaches the

1:24:56city council. Thank you.

1:25:01Thank you,

1:25:04Jasine. Joseline Core Core.

1:25:16>> Good evening, council members. My name

1:25:18is Justine Carr and I serve on the board

1:25:20of directors and the board of trustees

1:25:22of the sick curdoir of North Carolina

1:25:24which is located off of Banner Street

1:25:26and has a shared boundary with the south

1:25:29side of the proposed development. I was

1:25:31also able to review the staff report

1:25:34about the proposed zoning change and the

1:25:36traffic analysis section seems to have

1:25:40overlooked completely overlooked the

1:25:41traffic impact on Banner Street and

1:25:44based on what we were told by the

1:25:46attorney representing the proposed

1:25:48development will have an opening

1:25:49vehicular opening on Berwin and Banner

1:25:51Street. So three according to you know

1:25:54my knives estimates 300 apartments could

1:25:56be like 600 cars and a lot of the

1:25:59drivers would need to go to downtown and

1:26:02which makes them very likely to prefer

1:26:04the shorter uh least resistance without

1:26:06traffic lights route through Banner

1:26:08Street. Now if you've ever driven on the

1:26:10street it's a thin one-way street that

1:26:13just cannot handle that amount of

1:26:14traffic load especially during peak

1:26:16hours. Hence, I request that this zoning

1:26:19change be considered only after a

1:26:21thorough traffic analysis and impact on

1:26:23the south side of the development is

1:26:25also considered. In my opinion, at the

1:26:29very least, Berwin Avenue, the small

1:26:31street right along the boundary of this

1:26:33development, needs to be converted to a

1:26:34proper two-way traffic if there's going

1:26:36to be vehicular access there. And a

1:26:38traffic light should be added at at its

1:26:41intersection with Roxboro. That second

1:26:43part I really hope uh you know you all

1:26:46are able to understand because I

1:26:48personally visit the gard you know

1:26:50anywhere from up to four times a week

1:26:52because my kids also do classes there

1:26:54and turning on to Roxboro already feels

1:26:57like I'm waiting you know for so long to

1:26:59get onto perhaps a congested Manhattan

1:27:02bridge and finally when I do get to the

1:27:04head of the line I kind of feel like Tom

1:27:06Cruz trying to turn onto the traffic

1:27:08without getting into an accident and I

1:27:10don't have the sports car that Tom Cruz

1:27:12owns. and I have kids sitting in my car.

1:27:14So this is as a mother I feel guilty

1:27:17about this risky thing I have to do

1:27:18pretty much weekly. So I last sentence

1:27:21I'll stop after this. I believe with

1:27:23respectful conversations there are ways

1:27:25to mitigate these issues and you know we

1:27:27hope that future communications with the

1:27:29developers will lead to those but as of

1:27:31now there's nothing in the plan to

1:27:32address this. Thank you. Thank you

1:27:36Herman Kal.

1:27:51Hello, my name is Harman Kor Bupal and I

1:27:54am a member of the board of trustees of

1:27:55the Sik Gordara of North Carolina

1:27:58located on Banner Street adjacent to the

1:28:00property being discussed. My family and

1:28:02I have been a part of the congregation

1:28:03there since 1999, which has meant that

1:28:06we come to the Gordara regularly,

1:28:08meaning at least once per week,

1:28:10sometimes up to even three to four times

1:28:12per week over the last 25 plus years. We

1:28:15visit on Sundays and during the week,

1:28:18both during high traffic times like rush

1:28:20hour and on off- peak traffic times,

1:28:22although these days I don't know what

1:28:23off- peak would really look like. Um, I

1:28:26respectfully ask this council to

1:28:27carefully consider the traffic

1:28:29implications of the project being

1:28:30discussed. The intersection with Roxboro

1:28:33Street when arriving or leaving the

1:28:34Gorda is congested as it already is and

1:28:37will only get worse with more cars

1:28:39frequenting it and driving through the

1:28:41area. Due to high traffic, turning onto

1:28:44and off of Roxboro can be a lengthy and

1:28:46sometimes stressful part of the drive.

1:28:47As you have already heard, a long line

1:28:49of cars can build up because it takes so

1:28:51long for each car to turn without a

1:28:53street light. This increases the chances

1:28:55of being rearended and other safety

1:28:57issues. And I myself have witnessed near

1:29:00incidents of road rage trying to turn at

1:29:02that intersection. I have heard the same

1:29:04concerns from several others in the

1:29:06congregation who aren't able to be here

1:29:08tonight to speak to their experiences.

1:29:10And I have also heard these concerns

1:29:12from non-drivers, particularly those who

1:29:14may walk up to the Gorda or take public

1:29:16transit and then walk the last part. I

1:29:19have no ill will towards the project,

1:29:20but I am asking the city to consider its

1:29:22implication on the community that

1:29:24already exists there. Up to 300 more

1:29:27apartments means hundreds more cars on

1:29:29the road. And I asked the council to

1:29:31require a traffic study or otherwise

1:29:33fully evaluate the impact of increased

1:29:35traffic on the community that already

1:29:37lives and worships near this property to

1:29:39see if a street light, a turn lane, or

1:29:42other protected crosswalk or other

1:29:43options could address these community

1:29:45concerns. I feel that these needs are

1:29:47important before moving forward with the

1:29:49project because they will impact

1:29:51hundreds if not a thousand plus people

1:29:53that already live and worship in this

1:29:55area regularly. Thank you.

1:30:01>> Thank you. That is the inperson people

1:30:05who have signed up. Anybody else in the

1:30:12Please step to the podium and state your

1:30:14name and address.

1:30:16And then

1:30:19that man

1:30:24good evening uh respected chair and uh

1:30:26commissioner members I want to begin by

1:30:29recognizing and sincerely appreciating

1:30:31the contributions of Dr. Mon Singh to

1:30:33the guruara but my comments are today

1:30:36are not about the contribution I'm

1:30:38speaking as a member of SGNC

1:30:40because I have the serious concerns

1:30:42about the traffic and public safety

1:30:44during the Sunday congregation we

1:30:46already experienced significant vehicle

1:30:48and pedestrian traffic particularly with

1:30:50the worshippers that walking to and fro

1:30:53from the adjacent uh church as well. Our

1:30:57biggest concerns is exiting the area and

1:31:00making the left turn on the Roxboro Pro

1:31:02Street [snorts] without protection of

1:31:04the traffic signals. We often face very

1:31:07very significant long times while trying

1:31:10to make a left turn on the Roxboro Pro

1:31:11Street and I personally escaped two

1:31:14times narrowly escaped the collisions on

1:31:16on that street. So adding this 300 uh

1:31:20additional apartments is only going to

1:31:22make the matters worse uh especially for

1:31:24the traffic.

1:31:26So I respectfully request comprehensive

1:31:29traffic impact and uh safety analysis

1:31:31particularly attention to the entry and

1:31:33exit points on the banner street and the

1:31:35Berwin street and left turn movements

1:31:38onto the Roxro street pedestrian safety

1:31:41and whether additional traffic control

1:31:43measures are needed. We support uh

1:31:46responsible development

1:31:49but we also want to make sure the growth

1:31:50does not come at the expense of safety

1:31:53and accessibility of our congregation

1:31:55and the surrounding community. Thank you

1:31:58for your time.

1:32:00>> Thank you.

1:32:10>> All right. [clears throat]

1:32:12Good evening, Planning Commission. Uh,

1:32:14hundreds of folks in the audience who

1:32:16care about democracy and the millions of

1:32:17folks online. Um, I'm here tonight to

1:32:20speak.

1:32:20>> Can you please state your name and

1:32:21address for the

1:32:22>> Freedman address on file with the board

1:32:24of elections? I'm here tonight to speak

1:32:26to this specific development. Um, and

1:32:29specifically, I really enjoy reading the

1:32:30planning commission's comments. Um,

1:32:32lately the city council has set the

1:32:34expectation around development projects

1:32:37that profers to the school system should

1:32:39be pegged at roughly $1,000 per pupil.

1:32:42And so I'd like to really encourage

1:32:43planning commissioners to make sure

1:32:44they're holding developers to that

1:32:46expectation moving forward. I do thank

1:32:48the development project for increasing

1:32:50that profer. Also in this community,

1:32:53there's also been a unique partnership

1:32:54that's been developed with Durham Tech

1:32:56and I'd like the planning commission to

1:32:58continue to uphold that sort of special

1:33:00arrangement. Uh you heard comments from

1:33:02somebody earlier around a offer for

1:33:05Durham Tech and I think for this

1:33:07community um that's something that's

1:33:08been established before and I'd like the

1:33:10planning commission to honor that

1:33:12separately. Um as you've noticed

1:33:14recently in the reports that go to city

1:33:16council, there's been a lot more data

1:33:18around paramedic services. And so you've

1:33:21seen some development projects give

1:33:22offers around first responders because

1:33:25we have situations here in Durham where

1:33:27if you call for EMS, you may get an

1:33:29ESTAT mode and you won't get an

1:33:30ambulance. And so I think it's really

1:33:32important if we're going to add 600

1:33:34units, we're adequately um measuring the

1:33:37cost to build first responders and

1:33:41making sure that we're holding

1:33:42developers to that standard or making

1:33:45sure that as part of the process they're

1:33:46making these commitments. Lastly, I'd

1:33:48encourage the planning commission to

1:33:50review some of the analysis that

1:33:52attorney Katie Ross has put together.

1:33:54Um, even by the most favorable

1:33:56estimates, Durham has reached in very

1:33:58short time the amount of housing we'll

1:34:00need for the next 30 years. Why that's

1:34:02important is because I think the

1:34:03planning commission has an opportunity

1:34:04to hold developers to a higher

1:34:06expectation to what development should

1:34:09be, and I'd encourage all of you to do

1:34:10that moving forward. Thank you.

1:34:16>> Thank you. Is there anybody on the Zoom

1:34:19wishing to speak? Emmy Grace.

1:34:27Hello. Uh, my name is Emmy Grace. I live

1:34:29at 2717 Highland in Northgate Park,

1:34:33about 3/4 of a mile from the site. I'd

1:34:36like to thank everyone involved in this

1:34:38process. I appreciate that the applicant

1:34:41has gone above some of the UDO

1:34:44requirements, but I really think this is

1:34:45an opportunity to do more, especially at

1:34:48such an important location. This is at

1:34:51the edge of the urban development tier.

1:34:53So, we really do not need any more car

1:34:55oriented development in Durham,

1:34:57especially in this place. So, I'd like

1:34:59to echo some of the recommendations for

1:35:01some better bike ped

1:35:05um safety and considerations.

1:35:08Additionally, on the note of the

1:35:09schools, if I'm understanding correctly,

1:35:11the report indicated that there'd be a

1:35:15net seven increase of students, and they

1:35:18estimate that the per student annual

1:35:20cost is $5,374.

1:35:24So, a contribution of $7,000 would only

1:35:27cover one and a half students for a

1:35:30single year. So, the school

1:35:32contribution, whether that's through DPS

1:35:34or through Durham Tech, really ought to

1:35:37be at least $40,000 minimum.

1:35:40Um, at the last community meeting, um,

1:35:43Mr. Do also indicated that there could

1:35:45be a possibility to incre

1:35:49um, affordable housing to boost that

1:35:51number. So, I'd really like to see the

1:35:53applicant consider a higher percentage

1:35:55of affordable units. Uh, thank you all

1:35:58so much and I hope you consider some of

1:36:00these um suggestions as you make your

1:36:02decision this evening.

1:36:06>> Thank you.

1:36:08Anybody else on the Zoom wishing to

1:36:10speak on this item? Please raise your

1:36:12hand or if you're on a cell phone, star

1:36:15nine.

1:36:24Going once,

1:36:26going twice,

1:36:29gone. The chair is now closing the

1:36:31public hearing and we are open for

1:36:33commissioner

1:36:36Oh,

1:36:38applicant, would you like to respond to

1:36:39some of these concerns?

1:36:47>> Uh, sure. Um, so I'll just say we've

1:36:51heard a lot of uh uh from from the

1:36:54community and and as as I've mentioned,

1:36:55we've been involved in some, in my

1:36:59opinion, fairly robust community

1:37:00engagement with various meetings.

1:37:02Traffic has emerged as the number one

1:37:04concern in this area. Now, your staff

1:37:07report, you know, it it shows or it has

1:37:09its own analysis from the professional

1:37:12staff here in the city uh related to the

1:37:15expected traffic impacts. It's true that

1:37:18a uh traffic impact analysis was not

1:37:20required and that's probably not that

1:37:23surprising given that uh as compared to

1:37:26the current zoning designation

1:37:29uh our proposed development would result

1:37:32in a reduction of 120 trips daily

1:37:35including a reduction 35 trips in the

1:37:37PMP hour and only an additional two

1:37:40trips in the AM power based off what

1:37:42could currently be built. So I don't I

1:37:46don't

1:37:47I think you heard from some of the

1:37:49speakers, there are several uh places of

1:37:51worship in this corridor.

1:37:53And I am certain that there is a lot of

1:37:55traffic if they're all in session at the

1:37:57same time. Uh I live I personally live

1:38:00across the street from a school. I can

1:38:01set my watch to the traffic at that

1:38:03school. We have traffic every day, every

1:38:05school day, I should say, at that

1:38:06school. And I'm sure there is traffic,

1:38:08but I think the staff report bears out

1:38:10the numbers on the the uh on on the

1:38:14traffic in this area. Another thing I

1:38:16want to point out is that one of the

1:38:17things that makes this a great site for

1:38:20uh an apartment community is in fact its

1:38:23access to transit. Uh there are very

1:38:27nearby there are uh transit stops which

1:38:31you can walk to. A couple of which uh at

1:38:34least one of which I think two are being

1:38:36improved either through the city's own

1:38:38investment in sidewalk projects or from

1:38:41other private developments. And you can

1:38:42walk to those safely from here. We have

1:38:44commitments to to include sidewalk uh

1:38:47including off-site sidewalk to make sure

1:38:49that you can actually walk to a bus

1:38:51stop. So the the comment about there

1:38:55needing to be less uh car centric

1:38:58development. I mean I think we agree

1:38:59with that. I think the reality is people

1:39:02do need a car to get around Durham, but

1:39:03this is a great location primarily

1:39:05because of its access to transit. Thank

1:39:07you.

1:39:12Okay, the chair is now closing the

1:39:14public hearing. Is there any

1:39:16commissioner questions or comments?

1:39:22Commissioner

1:39:24>> Huarez.

1:39:27Hi everyone. Um well, first thing I want

1:39:30to know is like thank you for sharing

1:39:31your story. I know that was very

1:39:33important for you. I come from immigrant

1:39:34parents as well. Um, but I also grew up

1:39:37here in Durham and I cross and I drive

1:39:39through Roxboro Street all the time. And

1:39:42let me tell you, growing up here, I've

1:39:44seen the increased amount of traffic in

1:39:46that area. I mean, El Superior is right

1:39:49there and that's where a lot of Latino

1:39:51goes to buy groceries and all that

1:39:53stuff. And so, when I hear a lot of the

1:39:55public um concerns on traffic, I agree,

1:39:59right? Because there's so much,

1:40:01especially how narrow the street is when

1:40:03you're driving by. people don't go 35 an

1:40:06hour and I I can tell you that for sure.

1:40:09And as well as even though it is um a

1:40:12good spot, I feel like there still needs

1:40:14to be an infrastructure built there for

1:40:16folks to truly be able to navigate their

1:40:19day-to-day life because again, people

1:40:21are there to transport as well through

1:40:23that street. And if we continue to see

1:40:25these types of traffics, it's kind of

1:40:27hard to um yeah, envision how that's

1:40:32going to look like if there's not an

1:40:33infrastructure ready for for the 299

1:40:36units that y'all want to bring. And you

1:40:39can imagine that's not just going to

1:40:40include one person. It includes multiple

1:40:43people sometimes in those units. So, um

1:40:46I hope my folks here can consider that

1:40:49as well. Um, and that I hear a lot of

1:40:52the folks who came here and I'm just so

1:40:54thankful for everyone who spoke up here

1:40:56today.

1:40:59>> Thank you. Other commissioner comments,

1:41:01questions,

1:41:04Commissioner Woke.

1:41:06>> Um, yes. And so I'm I also have concerns

1:41:11with the traffic. Um, and but also I

1:41:15appreciate that the affordability went

1:41:17down to 60% AMI. That's awesome. But I

1:41:20do also think that 15 units seems very

1:41:23low and I'm hearing that a lot also from

1:41:25the community and um from the

1:41:28neighborhood meetings in that and I just

1:41:30was wondering if there was any um if

1:41:34that if you would consider increasing

1:41:36that in any way.

1:41:43>> I mean we're definitely considering it

1:41:45but we're not in a position to make the

1:41:46commitment tonight. We we we take our

1:41:49commitment seriously. Uh and we just

1:41:51don't know that we'll be able to hit a

1:41:53higher number, but it's our goal to do

1:41:55that. Um but you know, to answer your

1:41:57question, I can't make that commitment

1:41:59tonight.

1:42:05Any other commissioner questions,

1:42:07comments?

1:42:09Do I have a question for the applicant?

1:42:11So, where is your connection going to

1:42:13be? Is it going to be just on Banner

1:42:15Street or are you going to be connecting

1:42:16to Bellevin Avenue?

1:42:19>> Yeah, the the um so we don't have direct

1:42:23access to Banner. The site is bounded

1:42:27between Bellevin and Berwin and then

1:42:30Banner intersects with Berwin. So there

1:42:33will be points of access off of Bellevin

1:42:36which is to our north. Um and the site

1:42:39does have frontage on Berwin. Um

1:42:44something we've been uh trying to figure

1:42:46out is whether we actually need to have

1:42:48a vehicular access to Burwin. Um and you

1:42:52know we we are open to the idea of not

1:42:55having a vehicular access off Berwin

1:42:57because we do have access to Bellevin.

1:43:04>> Okay. Thank you. And also this area is

1:43:08under I guess is part of the small area

1:43:11planning for the Braggtown community. Is

1:43:14this part of that plan

1:43:17>> or is this

1:43:18>> I think your question is is this

1:43:20property within the plan district for

1:43:22the small area plan? It is.

1:43:24>> Yes.

1:43:26>> Yes.

1:43:27>> Okay. Thank you.

1:43:31Any other questions or comments? I'd

1:43:34also like to I travel down Roxboro Road

1:43:37and I would like to echo Commissioner

1:43:40Huarez's one. It is

1:43:45uh

1:43:46an obstacle course

1:43:49and Rock Roxboro Road. I mean, it is it

1:43:53the infrastructure there needs some

1:43:55serious improvement before additional

1:43:58traffic is added. So, it'd be nice to

1:44:01get some profers about

1:44:04uh more sidewalks or a commitment to

1:44:10bus shelters or

1:44:12>> So, we do have commitments to more

1:44:13sidewalk including off-site sidewalk and

1:44:15the bus shelters

1:44:17while

1:44:18>> or anything that would promote less

1:44:20traffic going on.

1:44:21>> They're getting improved. The the bus

1:44:22shelters, one is getting improved

1:44:24through a city uh sidewalk program. the

1:44:27other one. None of these bus stops are

1:44:29are directly adjacent to our site. We

1:44:31don't have a bus stop in front of our

1:44:33assemblage, but they're just they're

1:44:34very close by, less than tenth of a mile

1:44:37if I remember correctly. And and those

1:44:39bus stops are getting improved. One by

1:44:41the city and then if I remember

1:44:43correctly, one by the Bragtown Walk

1:44:44project as well, but you can walk to

1:44:46those bus stops from this development.

1:44:50>> Okay, Commissioner Bailey.

1:44:53>> Okay. So, I just want to make sure I

1:44:54heard you correctly. You just said you

1:44:55there's no access. If I'm looking at

1:44:57this map correctly, through Bellevin

1:45:00and so the only access is Berwin

1:45:03outside.

1:45:03>> No, no, the so the property has frontage

1:45:07on both Berwin and Bellevin. What I said

1:45:09is we don't have direct access to

1:45:11Banner.

1:45:12>> Okay.

1:45:12>> Um which which is a street that

1:45:14intersects with Burwin and it goes

1:45:17>> roughly north south. I think Banner goes

1:45:19north south

1:45:20>> which is where um the uh Gdoara has

1:45:24their access. Right. So that was the

1:45:26street that was the the subject of a lot

1:45:28of the comments you heard. We don't have

1:45:30direct access to Banner, but we do have

1:45:33direct access to Berwin. I think the

1:45:35concern is that if we have vehicular

1:45:37access on Berwin, people will exit our

1:45:40site, go to Berwin, and then go to

1:45:42Banner. And what I was suggesting is our

1:45:45team,

1:45:46I haven't talked to planning about it,

1:45:48so I don't know if there are some

1:45:49impediments, but our team is open to the

1:45:51idea of not having a vehicular access on

1:45:53Berwin, which would then limit our

1:45:56vehicular access essentially only to

1:45:57Belvin. So, would it be possible to,

1:46:02and I heard you say that the traffic

1:46:04analysis was not a requirement? Um, but

1:46:09as you're hearing the comments from the

1:46:11public, is that something that you would

1:46:13consider doing as you move forward, if

1:46:15if the project were to move move

1:46:17forward, so you can help

1:46:20kind of mitigate or alleviate some of

1:46:21those concerns that folks are having

1:46:24because the traffic is an issue. I don't

1:46:25go down Roxboro Road for this very

1:46:27reason because it's a lot. Um, and I'm

1:46:29looking at how this exit is going to be.

1:46:32And if you're wanting a project of this

1:46:34magnitude, while it is a a solid project

1:46:37itself, the traffic analysis would be

1:46:39something that would be helpful to help

1:46:41comfort the residents and those people

1:46:43in the community that are going to be

1:46:44there.

1:46:45>> So, I don't know if we I couple things I

1:46:48want to say about that. There was I

1:46:50think a couple of people mentioned that

1:46:51they would like to see a stoplight at

1:46:54the intersection of Burwin and Roxboro.

1:46:57Now the issue with that is NCDOT is

1:47:00never going to allow a stoplight in that

1:47:02location because there's already a

1:47:03stoplight just up the street. So they

1:47:05have a spacing requirement for stop

1:47:07lightss and as I understand it the you

1:47:10just don't meet the spacing. There isn't

1:47:11going to be a stoplight there. Um, so I

1:47:14I want to be clear that regardless of

1:47:16any, you know, if a traffic uh analysis

1:47:19is done, that to my understanding is not

1:47:22possible just based off of the uh

1:47:25spacing requirements that NC DOT has for

1:47:27their roads for for traffic signals. Um,

1:47:31I I I don't know that we that I can make

1:47:34the commitment tonight to to do a

1:47:35traffic impact analysis, but we have

1:47:37heard that feedback. I mean, I I I've

1:47:39heard what the community said about

1:47:40traffic, and as I said, we're we've been

1:47:42thinking about the best way to address

1:47:44that. One of the ideas we came up with

1:47:46is, well, what if we just didn't have a

1:47:49vehicular access on Berwin, right?

1:47:51Because that going south, going across

1:47:53banner, that's where we're hearing the

1:47:55most about traffic concerns. Roxboro

1:47:57also a traffic concern, but I can't

1:47:58avoid Roxboro on this side. I just can't

1:48:00do that.

1:48:05Uh, Vice Chair Cameron.

1:48:07>> So, um,

1:48:10how much environmental cleanup do you

1:48:12have to do on this site?

1:48:15>> So, the the actual area, there's

1:48:17actually a recorded, um, uh, documents

1:48:20called a notice of residual petroleum

1:48:22that's on the site and it actually has a

1:48:24map. Uh, I don't know if that map is in

1:48:27your packet. I don't think it is. Um the

1:48:30contamination area is is a very small

1:48:32area where the tank was. It's actually

1:48:35to my understanding it wasn't the tank

1:48:37that leaked. It was that when the tank

1:48:39was removed some of the uh components

1:48:42were left behind

1:48:43>> like the spot uh was kind of left behind

1:48:46and that's what the contamination stems

1:48:48from. So it is a small area but it is

1:48:51contamination nonetheless. We don't know

1:48:54uh what will need to be done uh to

1:48:58address that contamination, but as you

1:49:00see, we have a zoning commitment to

1:49:01address that before we have any

1:49:03residential development in that area. Um

1:49:06and

1:49:08I will just say the state has DEQ has a

1:49:11program that monitors this stuff and

1:49:12they have I guess I'll say multiple

1:49:14avenues on how this could be addressed

1:49:17depending on the extent and the actual

1:49:20uh contaminant. And as I had mentioned,

1:49:22I think uh this was like a a storage

1:49:26tank for oil for heating that the school

1:49:29had.

1:49:30>> So at the most you may have to do some

1:49:31soil remediation going on,

1:49:33>> soil remediation, soil management,

1:49:35something like that. In some instances,

1:49:37you can cap that contamination.

1:49:39Obviously

1:49:41it's also possible that it would require

1:49:43a complete removal, although I don't

1:49:44think that's that's probably not the

1:49:46case in this location. For what it's

1:49:47worth, the site already has a no further

1:49:51action notice from DEEQ for

1:49:54non-residential development.

1:49:55>> For non-resident,

1:49:56>> but residential development is held to a

1:49:57higher standard for obvious reasons.

1:49:59>> Will you uh be able to qualify for

1:50:02brownfield funding on that or no?

1:50:04>> You know, we haven't looked into into

1:50:06the brownfield. It's also I will say

1:50:08it's such a small area. I don't know

1:50:10that it would even be worth the headache

1:50:11even if we could.

1:50:12>> Got it. Thank you.

1:50:16Any other questions or comments?

1:50:20Nope, we're good. All right. May I have

1:50:22a motion to move case Z25 triple0

1:50:2847 Mosby Bragtown forward with a

1:50:32favorable recommendation.

1:50:34Chair regarding case Z25047

1:50:40Mosby Bragtown. I move that we forward

1:50:44this case to city council with a

1:50:46favorable recommendation for approval.

1:50:52>> Second.

1:50:54>> It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

1:50:56and seconded by Commissioner Pionek to

1:50:59move this case forward with a favorable

1:51:01recommendation. May we have the

1:51:03electronic voting, please?

1:51:21The motion fails 6 to three.

1:51:27Thank you. Next item on the agenda.

1:51:29Shannon at Old Hap Chapel Hill Road Text

1:51:33Modification

1:51:35Z26 A triple01

1:51:38one.

1:51:42Yes, please. Please exit quietly.

1:51:53[clears throat]

1:51:58>> [clears throat]

1:52:17>> May we have the staff report, please?

1:52:20>> Um, good evening, Chair Shagaras, Vice

1:52:22Chair Cameron, planning commissioners.

1:52:24I'm Javar Jones. I'm here to present

1:52:27case Z26000

1:52:3211 Shannon at Old Chapel Hill text

1:52:34modification.

1:52:38The proposal includes amending an

1:52:40existing development plan for Shannon at

1:52:43Old Chapel Hill located at 3638 Old

1:52:46Chapel Hill Road and 3641 Shannon Road.

1:52:50The existing zoning is commercial

1:52:52general with a development plan and

1:52:54residential compact with a development

1:52:57plan. The applicant proposes to keep the

1:53:00current zoning designations while

1:53:02amending the existing development plan

1:53:05to allow for more townouses to be built

1:53:07on the site. The current development

1:53:09plan was approved for the development of

1:53:1143 town houses and 17 multif family

1:53:14units. The applicant seeks to develop an

1:53:17additional 17 townhouse units in lie of

1:53:20the previously approved multif family

1:53:22units. This proposal would allow for up

1:53:25to 60 townhouse units to be developed on

1:53:27the site.

1:53:32The aerial map shows the general

1:53:33location of the project along Shannon

1:53:35Road and Old Chapel Hill Road. You can

1:53:37see there just to the west of Shannon

1:53:40Road is the Hope Valley Square Shopping

1:53:43Center.

1:53:47So the amended development plan with the

1:53:49updated housing type is graphically

1:53:51depicted within a bubble and has been

1:53:53updated under the land use section of

1:53:55sheet three of attachment D.

1:53:58Additionally, the amendment has been

1:53:59notated on sheet one under text

1:54:01commitments.

1:54:13Okay. Uh, neighborhood meetings were

1:54:15held on June 9th, 2026 and September

1:54:1815th, 2026. There were 14 attendees at

1:54:22the first meeting and seven attendees at

1:54:24the second meeting. Additionally, one

1:54:26neutral comment has been received for

1:54:28this proposal on the Durham Reszoning

1:54:30Explorer.

1:54:35The proposal would amend the existing

1:54:38graphic development plan to allow for

1:54:40the development of 17 additional

1:54:42townhouse units to replace the

1:54:43previously approved 17 apartment units

1:54:46located on the southern end within the

1:54:48CGD commercial general with the

1:54:51development plan zone portion of the

1:54:53site. Again, this proposed amendment is

1:54:56not requesting to change the previously

1:54:58approved zoning districts. Due to the

1:55:01limited nature of the request, the

1:55:04proposal was not reviewed against the

1:55:06policies of the comprehensive plan.

1:55:08Thank you. Staff and the applicant are

1:55:10available for any questions.

1:55:13>> Thank you. The chair is now opening the

1:55:15public hearing. May we have the

1:55:17applicant, please?

1:55:21>> Good evening, commissioners, chair, vice

1:55:22chair. My name is Scott Harmon. I'm the

1:55:24applicant of this project. Uh I'm a uh

1:55:28one of the founders of Center Studio

1:55:29here in downtown Durham. Um I wanted to

1:55:34um we are uh simply we're not changing

1:55:40the density. We're not changing any of

1:55:42the other commitments that we worked and

1:55:43negotiated very carefully with the

1:55:45adjacent neighborhoods and the our

1:55:47neighbors the Markhamm Street uh Baptist

1:55:50Church. Um, and we're simply, um, we

1:55:54originally had planned to do a mixeduse

1:55:57vertical building on the corner that had

1:55:59ground level commercial and retail with

1:56:0217 flats above. That kind of a building

1:56:06has become too expensive to construct at

1:56:09that small of a scale. The people who

1:56:12are building 200 and 300 unit apartments

1:56:14can still afford to build those because

1:56:16of the scale that they're working at.

1:56:17But the small infill stuff that we're

1:56:19known for, have done a lot of downtown,

1:56:22those with the rise in interest rates,

1:56:25those kind of buildings are just

1:56:26prohibitively expensive. Uh town homes

1:56:29remain a viable economic option there.

1:56:31So, we just simply wanted to change it

1:56:33from apartments, 17 apartments for phase

1:56:362 to 17 town homes. All of our

1:56:38commitments on affordability, all the

1:56:40access uh storm water commitments that

1:56:43we've made remain in effect. Um if we

1:56:47had actually used the word multif family

1:56:49in our original zoning application, uh

1:56:52we could do either apartments or town

1:56:53homes, but because we specifically said

1:56:55apartments for that one building type,

1:56:57staff said we really did need to come

1:56:59back before you uh to edit that. I want

1:57:02to point out just a couple things.

1:57:05Um uh we did very robust community

1:57:09engagement on this project. We uh always

1:57:11mailed to 1,000 ft instead of the

1:57:13minimum 60 600 ft. We mail to every

1:57:16resident, not just the owners. We mail

1:57:18to every apartment dweller uh within

1:57:20that area. This is something we just do

1:57:22on principle. Uh we have a very close

1:57:25relationship that we maintain with the

1:57:27Markham Chapel Baptist Church, our

1:57:29immediate neighbor. Our property

1:57:31literally surrounds their their church.

1:57:33That congregation is historic and has

1:57:35been in that location more or less since

1:57:37the late 1800s. Dr. Richard McM McMillan

1:57:40says hello and is looking forward to

1:57:42meeting his new neighbors. Um, I also

1:57:46want to just mention that our original

1:57:47zoning case in 2023 was unanimously

1:57:50approved by the planning commission and

1:57:53uh it was approved by the council 5 to

1:57:55one. I know this is a different body of

1:57:58different people and you should all have

1:57:59your own opinions about these matters

1:58:01but I think the uh the example that we

1:58:04set back in 23 23 is important uh

1:58:07context for what we're asking for today.

1:58:09We're almost done with the first phase

1:58:11of construction and vertical townhouse

1:58:13construction would be beginning

1:58:14hopefully before the end of the year.

1:58:16And I'm happy to answer any questions

1:58:18y'all have.

1:58:22>> Thank you.

1:58:24[clears throat]

1:58:25have any uh community other community

1:58:27members? Only the applicant has signed

1:58:29up in person.

1:58:33Nope. Anybody on the Zoom, please raise

1:58:35your hand or star nine if you're on a

1:58:40cell phone if you're wishing to speak on

1:58:42this item.

1:58:46Nope. Going once.

1:58:49Going twice. Gone. Chair is now closing

1:58:52the public hearing and we're open for

1:58:54commissioner questions or comments.

1:58:57Any questions, comments on this one?

1:59:01Nope. That's easy. Okay. May I have a

1:59:04motion to move case Z26011

1:59:08Shannon at Old Chapel Hill Road text

1:59:10modification forward with a favorable

1:59:13recommendation.

1:59:14chair regarding case

1:59:18Z2601

1:59:21Shannon at Old Chapel Hill Road text

1:59:24modification. I move that we forward

1:59:27this case to city council with a

1:59:29favorable recommendation for approval.

1:59:33>> Second [clears throat] second.

1:59:36>> It has been moved by Vice Chair Cameron

1:59:38and seconded by Commissioner Richie to

1:59:40move this case forward with a favorable

1:59:41recommendation. May we have the

1:59:43electronic voting, please?

1:59:56>> The motion passes 11 to zero. Y'all are

1:59:59awesome. Thank you. Hope you're not

2:00:00right here all night.

2:00:03>> Thank you. Next item on the agenda, uh,

2:00:06item number seven, small area plans

2:00:08update, Lakewood West, and Lion Park

2:00:12small area plan.

2:00:16Good evening, planning commission chair,

2:00:18vice chair, and um, the entire planning

2:00:21commission in public. My name is Sarah

2:00:23Long, and I am a project manager for the

2:00:25Lakewood, Weston, and Lion Park small

2:00:27area plan. And tonight, I will be

2:00:29sharing with you an overview of the

2:00:30draft small area plan.

2:00:33So, as a reminder, small area plans, um,

2:00:36it's an initiative that engages

2:00:38community members in identifying the

2:00:40needs of a specific area. They're a way

2:00:43for us to implement the adopted derm

2:00:45durm comprehensive plan by making

2:00:47recommendations to guide future

2:00:48development and public investment in the

2:00:51area.

2:00:54So, as a brief overview of the project,

2:00:56we chose this location for our second

2:00:58small air plan because of the potential

2:00:59redevelopment of shops at Lakewood. The

2:01:022023 comprehensive plan identifies the

2:01:04shopping center as a transit opportunity

2:01:06area. So that's an area with the

2:01:08potential for transitoriented infill

2:01:10development and we recognize that this

2:01:13transitoriented development would impact

2:01:15not only the shopping center but the

2:01:16commercial corridor along Chapel Hill

2:01:18Road and nearby neighborhoods. So we

2:01:21included the Weston and Lion Park

2:01:22neighborhoods because these historically

2:01:24disinvested areas um could use a look in

2:01:27terms of determining what their needs

2:01:29are and assessing those needs for any

2:01:31future development.

2:01:34So our work over the past year can be

2:01:36divi broken down into five main phases

2:01:39starting with the preliminary research

2:01:40in the late spring and summer of 2025.

2:01:44The phase one began with the project

2:01:47launch in August of 2025 after which we

2:01:49identified the project topic topic areas

2:01:51for engagement.

2:01:53In phase two, we conducted engagement

2:01:55from December to June of this year. And

2:01:58at the same time, we drafted plan

2:02:00recommendations based on that community

2:02:02input and staff analysis. In July of

2:02:04this year, we entered the stage of

2:02:05finalizing the draft recommendations and

2:02:07the community engagement on the draft

2:02:09plan, which wrapped up in September. And

2:02:11this meeting is beginning our adoption

2:02:13process.

2:02:17The project methods can be broken down

2:02:19into two main areas. Um, we had our land

2:02:21use analysis and research that was

2:02:24conducted by staff and the incorporation

2:02:25of community input. For our land

2:02:28analysis, we looked at unused city-owned

2:02:30parcels, paper streets or unbuilt

2:02:32dedicated rightway, vacant properties,

2:02:35and we also looked at potential changes

2:02:36for zoning districts and place type

2:02:38designations as well as infrastructure

2:02:41work that was planned or scheduled in

2:02:42the area. Our second approach was

2:02:45incorporating community input and that

2:02:47process included um started working with

2:02:50community members to identify concerns

2:02:52or requests for improvements,

2:02:53verification of those concerns which

2:02:55usually included a site visit,

2:02:57coordination with respective

2:02:58departments. Um and for the shops at

2:03:01Lakewood engagement specifically, we

2:03:03focused on um design ideation exercise

2:03:06to help with visual visualization of

2:03:08what um the community vision would be

2:03:10for that shopping center.

2:03:14Just briefly our engagement highlights

2:03:16again the project was launched in August

2:03:18of 2025. Um in December we held an

2:03:21engagement on transportation which

2:03:23allowed participants to identify areas

2:03:25on a map where they recognize safety

2:03:27concerns or mobility barriers. We also

2:03:30had transportation staff collect um

2:03:32feedback for the equitable green

2:03:34infrastructure traffic calming project

2:03:36in the area. In April, we held an

2:03:38engagement on parks, open space and

2:03:40connectivity. And there was a similar

2:03:42method used where participants could

2:03:44identify on a map um what open spaces

2:03:46they use and parks that they use and how

2:03:48they get to those locations. For the

2:03:50shops at Lakewood engagement, we held um

2:03:52three different engagement

2:03:53opportunities. One was the map based and

2:03:55design engagement I mentioned before, a

2:03:57virtual engagement where participants

2:03:59gave feedback on height preferences and

2:04:01an online survey.

2:04:06So in terms of the plan structure itself

2:04:08is organized into five chapters

2:04:10including um background information,

2:04:12existing conditions, the overall

2:04:13planning process um and we get into the

2:04:16policy re policy recommendations um and

2:04:18action recommendations in chapters three

2:04:20and four. In chapter five we have an

2:04:23implementation schedule.

2:04:29So for the specific planning um

2:04:31recommendations

2:04:33in transportation um we listed

2:04:36improvements uh requested for sidewalks

2:04:39um improvements to traffic calming

2:04:41measures like the image you can see the

2:04:43Morehead and Chapel Hill Road

2:04:45intersection um recommendations for

2:04:47transit stop improvements um

2:04:49particularly along um Chapel Hill Street

2:04:52and also Chapel Hill Road as well as

2:04:55improving bike and pedestrian access to

2:04:57Lion Park and Wrightwood park. And for

2:05:00parks, um we also included

2:05:01recommendations for improved park

2:05:03amenities for the Carol Street park and

2:05:05a and shade infrastructure for Maplewood

2:05:07Park.

2:05:11For recommendations for public land, we

2:05:14noted the potential use of vacant

2:05:15property along Wrightwood Park to

2:05:17improve that bike and ped pedestrian

2:05:19connection. Um there are also two

2:05:21historical black cemeteries in the area,

2:05:24the Fitzgerald and Henderson cemeteries.

2:05:26The plan recommends expansion of the use

2:05:28of um ground penetrating radar surveys

2:05:30to identify potentially potential

2:05:32unmarked graves and for further recogniz

2:05:35recognition and preservation of these

2:05:37cemeteries.

2:05:39Our analysis of the paper streets and

2:05:41alleyways um included recommendations

2:05:43for exploring the feasibility of bike

2:05:45and pedestrian access along the Norwood

2:05:47and Dean Street paper streets as well as

2:05:50a potential uh street or agreement

2:05:52access along Proctor Street.

2:05:58terms of place type and zoning, there

2:05:59was just one area just south of Morehead

2:06:02Avenue, which is in the center of the

2:06:03map there, where we noted um that there

2:06:06was existing residential and one or two

2:06:08story commercial um uses that were zone

2:06:10as office and institutional, which

2:06:12typically allows for higher intensity

2:06:14that is that we see in the current area

2:06:16we expect to be in that area. So we

2:06:18recommended instead a mixed use zoning

2:06:20district that aligns with the res

2:06:23residential and commercial character of

2:06:24the area and our zoning recommendation

2:06:27um would be addressed by the new UDO

2:06:32project. So should that be restarted or

2:06:34through a separate reszoning process. So

2:06:36in this so for this plan itself we are

2:06:38not calling for resoning.

2:06:40In terms of historic preservation, we

2:06:41identified the Weston and Lion Park

2:06:43neighborhoods as potential heritage

2:06:44communities which would allow for

2:06:46archiving and recognition of those

2:06:48areas.

2:06:51And at the moment, um the housing and

2:06:53neighborhood service services department

2:06:55is in the process of developing an

2:06:57affordable housing plan for the city. So

2:06:59with that in mind, our recommendations

2:07:00emphasize working with that department

2:07:02on neighborhood stab stabilization

2:07:04efforts. Um, we also noted and

2:07:06emphasized this the comprehensive plan

2:07:08uh has guidance for new housing

2:07:10developments in TOAS. Shops at Lakewood

2:07:13that would include a minimum of 20%

2:07:15affordable residential units for new um

2:07:18residential development.

2:07:22So that brings me to the guidance for

2:07:24the shops at Lakewood. As I mentioned

2:07:27before, um this is designated as a

2:07:29transit opportunity area and

2:07:33transit opportunity areas prioritize or

2:07:35intended to prioritize moving people

2:07:37safely. Um they should include buildings

2:07:40that are located close together and in

2:07:42general areas that provide a mix of uses

2:07:44that serve the daily needs of the

2:07:46community.

2:07:53So based on the community input and the

2:07:55comprehensive plan guidance, we wrote

2:07:56the following recommendations for the

2:07:58shops at Lakewood um in terms of

2:08:00connectivity and transportation,

2:08:02prioritizing non-vehicular modes of

2:08:03movement throughout the shopping center

2:08:05should include safe paths for

2:08:07pedestrians and cyclists and designated

2:08:09automobile access points that prioritize

2:08:11visibility and safety. We also uh

2:08:14recommended an expansion of green space

2:08:16as well as expanding the tree canopy

2:08:18throughout the parking lot.

2:08:24For public services, we recommended

2:08:26prioritizing services such as such as

2:08:28trash receptacles, water filling

2:08:30stations, and a public restroom as well

2:08:32as an improved transit stops um by the

2:08:36shops at Liquid. For mix of uses, we are

2:08:38recommending both commercial and

2:08:40residential uses within the shopping

2:08:42center. And again, at least 20% of all

2:08:44new residential units being affordable

2:08:47for massing. Um the building massing

2:08:49recommend recommendations

2:08:52provide height guidance on existing

2:08:54commercial buildings um based height

2:08:56guidance based on the existing

2:08:57commercial buildings and nearby

2:08:59residential areas. So we're talking

2:09:00about recommendations for five to three

2:09:03stories for new buildings.

2:09:05And we emphasized that this additional

2:09:08density is intended to promote more

2:09:10affordable housing in the area.

2:09:13In terms of infill, we noted a couple of

2:09:15opportunities for small-scale affordable

2:09:17commercial spaces in the vacant

2:09:19buildings.

2:09:22So here we have a diagram that

2:09:23summarizes the ideas that are laid out

2:09:25in the staff recommendations and we show

2:09:28areas for additional green space. In

2:09:30blue we have potential areas for new

2:09:31building locations. So, these aren't

2:09:33building footprints themselves. They're

2:09:34just areas that where we could break up

2:09:36the shopping center with additional

2:09:37building info. And we also identified

2:09:40ideal entry points for vehic vehicles

2:09:42versus bicycle and pedestrian movement.

2:09:47And as I mentioned, we included an

2:09:49implementation table and that

2:09:52categorizes the recommendations as

2:09:54discrete actions or ongoing policies. It

2:09:57also provides details on the

2:09:58responsibility um of these

2:10:00recommendations, the timeline and the

2:10:02associated plans related to each of the

2:10:04recommendations.

2:10:08So the next three images um include a or

2:10:12a visual representation of the recommend

2:10:14recommendations

2:10:15and here we can see potential new

2:10:18building footprints um and then new

2:10:20building heights relative to existing

2:10:22structure. We also see a redesigned

2:10:24parking area and expanding green space.

2:10:34And again, this these are additional

2:10:36images um different views of the shops

2:10:38at Liquid area. And these images give us

2:10:40an idea of the scale of what the

2:10:42additional building height would look

2:10:44like in comparison to existing

2:10:45buildings. And it really served the

2:10:47purposes of of providing um a more

2:10:49accessible way of seeing what is in the

2:10:51text of the small area plan.

2:11:00I just wanted to note we had an open

2:11:02survey that ended um right before this

2:11:05presentation and we had a bit more

2:11:07feedback from residents. Um some of the

2:11:09things that were noted were was further

2:11:11emphasizing the or asking for additional

2:11:14or stronger language around affordable

2:11:15housing for shops at Lakewood. Um there

2:11:18was emphasis on um environmentally

2:11:21friendly lighting um concerns and in

2:11:24interest around um infrastructure within

2:11:27shops at Lakewood that would address

2:11:29concerns around safety.

2:11:31Um, and there were there were questions

2:11:34and concerns around parking availability

2:11:36in the shops at Lakewood.

2:11:39And that's addressed through our

2:11:40recommendations for structured parking.

2:11:44Right. After tonight's hearing, we will

2:11:47respond to your recommendations and our

2:11:48next steps are the city council work

2:11:50session on November 5th and the December

2:11:5221st city council public hearing. Thank

2:11:55you. And we're available for your

2:11:57questions and comments.

2:12:00Thank you. Are there any questions or

2:12:02comments?

2:12:06Oh, opening the public hearing.

2:12:10>> Is there a signup sheet for this one?

2:12:12>> Yes.

2:12:24>> Okay. Dan Juel.

2:12:33>> Good evening, commissioners. I'm Dan

2:12:34Juel. I live at 1025 Gloria Avenue. Been

2:12:37practicing as a professional landscape

2:12:39architect here in Durham for over 40

2:12:41years. Partially here at the request of

2:12:43my long-term client, Brody Co, but also

2:12:45as someone who's been a consultant and a

2:12:48customer at the shops of Lakewood for

2:12:49more than 35 years. members of the

2:12:52Birdie Crow team and I attended most if

2:12:54not all of the in-person sessions uh

2:12:57since last year. There was much

2:12:59enthusiasm among the community members.

2:13:01We applaud and support the community

2:13:03input process that was followed.

2:13:05However, some of the recommendations put

2:13:08forth particularly in chapter 4 of the

2:13:09draft plan are actually conjecture by

2:13:12the planning department and were not

2:13:14produced as part of the community

2:13:16workshops. Specifically, we think that

2:13:19the relatively abbreviated time allotted

2:13:21for workshop exercises in no way

2:13:24supports the level of design uh that you

2:13:27saw here a second ago. To say that our

2:13:30group was surprised that the city would

2:13:32expend the effort to put together what

2:13:34people in my industry would describe as

2:13:36schematic design is an understatement.

2:13:39The drawings in the plan are what we

2:13:41would expect from a design cheret, not

2:13:43from the workshops that were actually

2:13:45held. Workshops result in a narrative

2:13:48that captures aspirational ideas

2:13:50gathered from community input. They do

2:13:52not result in designs. Design cherettes

2:13:55on the other hand pull experienced

2:13:57design professionals, owners and experts

2:13:59together for anywhere from a few days to

2:14:01a week of intensive analysis drawing

2:14:03feed feedback. For point of privilege, I

2:14:06know how to run workshops, how to run

2:14:08design cherettes. As co-founder of the

2:14:10Dermary Designers Group, I have

2:14:12organized and facilitated dozens of

2:14:14these exercises over the last 25 years.

2:14:17The detailed drawings therefore should

2:14:19not be part of this plan. And this is a

2:14:23critically important distinction because

2:14:25once adopted, this plan will become a

2:14:27future guiding document for zoning

2:14:29decisions down the road. And even though

2:14:31staff has said these are uh

2:14:34illustrative, we know that will not

2:14:37happen. the council will use this as uh

2:14:40verbatim. In closing, I would say in my

2:14:42professional opinion, this plan is not

2:14:44yet ready to be acted on and should be

2:14:47sent back to the planning department for

2:14:49revisions. Thank you.

2:14:52>> Thank you, Neil Gosh.

2:14:59>> Thank you. I'm Neil Gos, attorney with

2:15:01the Morning Star Law Group at 700 West

2:15:02Main Street. As Dan mentioned, he and I

2:15:05have been consulting with Brody Co,

2:15:06which owns about half of the acreage

2:15:07that makes up the existing shops at

2:15:09Lakewood. I think it's also important

2:15:11for me to mention that I was very

2:15:12involved in the small area plan process

2:15:14for the Walltown community and my

2:15:16clients in that case ultimately

2:15:17supported the adoption of the small area

2:15:19plan and ultimately I think that's our

2:15:22goal here. We want to be in a position

2:15:23to support the Lakewood small area plan.

2:15:25Unfortunately, as it's currently

2:15:26drafted, we're not in a position to do

2:15:28so in large part because of some of the

2:15:30things that Dan already mentioned. Uh

2:15:32while we recognize the utility of having

2:15:34visual aids or diagrams within the plan,

2:15:37uh we're very concerned that the images

2:15:39used create a false sense of feasibility

2:15:41without really acknowledging the many

2:15:42challenges any such redevelopment would

2:15:45face. For example, there is no mention

2:15:47in the plan about the existing

2:15:49declarations and restrictions that

2:15:52govern the property, which would in

2:15:53large part make the development uh make

2:15:56any development consistent with the

2:15:57renderings a sheer impossibility. uh

2:16:00leaving any discussion of those existing

2:16:02limitations out of the plan entirely I

2:16:05think is a disservice to the community.

2:16:07Uh one should be able to read the plan

2:16:08and get an understanding of what it is

2:16:10the community desires and the challenges

2:16:13associated with achieving that vision.

2:16:15It should not be acceptable that the

2:16:17response we got back when we asked how

2:16:19the various public spaces envisioned in

2:16:21the plan will be implemented is that the

2:16:23recommendations in the plan were

2:16:25garnered from community feedback with an

2:16:27understanding that the funding and

2:16:29maintenance of any of those potential

2:16:30services will need to be further

2:16:32explored to determine feasibility. In

2:16:34other words, the small area plan does

2:16:36not have a plan for that.

2:16:38uh in my opinion the strength of a small

2:16:40area plan is not necessarily in its

2:16:43feasibility but instead in providing a

2:16:45complete picture of the path forward and

2:16:48I don't think that this plan does that

2:16:50yet. So for this reason we're

2:16:52respectfully asking the planning

2:16:53commission to continue this item to a

2:16:55later date to allow time for some of

2:16:57these items to be addressed in

2:16:58consultation with the property owners.

2:17:00Thank you for your time.

2:17:04Thank you. Ruby

2:17:06Sinrich Sinrich Senrich.

2:17:12Hello, Planning Commission. My name is

2:17:14Ruby Senich and I live in the um area

2:17:18being studied here uh on Rosedale Avenue

2:17:20at the corner with Halley. Um I did

2:17:24participate in the small area plan

2:17:26meetings. I'm that kind of nerd as Dan

2:17:28knows.

2:17:29Um, I

2:17:32did not actually read through the plan

2:17:33until this week when I realized this

2:17:35meeting was coming up. Um, and I think

2:17:38that speaks to the fact that, um,

2:17:40although there was a lot of thought that

2:17:42went into the community parts of the

2:17:44process, there was also a lot of

2:17:46information that we didn't have. Um, a

2:17:49lot of it which I only just saw when I

2:17:51read the plan and I could have read it

2:17:52before, but we didn't get a reminder and

2:17:54I reminded myself. Um, I will say I love

2:17:58the proposals. I love both section three

2:18:00and four. A lot of them, again, I went

2:18:03to lots of meetings and didn't see any

2:18:04of those details until I actually read

2:18:06the plan, but once I read it, I was

2:18:07like, "Oh my god, I love this. We need a

2:18:09sidewalk over here." I love all the

2:18:12vision in there. Um, I know from

2:18:14experience that it's very hard to get

2:18:16people involved in local government uh

2:18:19stuff like this. Uh and I would

2:18:21recommend that this be taken as a

2:18:23learning point since I think this is the

2:18:24first small area plan since the

2:18:26comprehensive plan was adopted, the

2:18:28current one. Um so let's look at this

2:18:30and see what worked and what didn't

2:18:31work. Um some of these engagements were

2:18:34very abstract and difficult to to

2:18:38understand. Um they tried to separate

2:18:40things out that were very connected. And

2:18:42if you read through the report, you'll

2:18:44see that the demographics of those of us

2:18:46that were at those meetings don't really

2:18:48accurately reflect the demographics of

2:18:50our neighborhood. And that's really

2:18:51important. Again, not an easy problem to

2:18:53solve, but it's something that we do

2:18:55have to work on. Um, I also noted in the

2:18:59plan that it mentions that the shape of

2:19:01this neighborhood is very much defined

2:19:03by where the trolley car used to go

2:19:06right out to the Lakewood Amusement

2:19:08Park, also to serve Lion Park, which was

2:19:10workforce housing where people were

2:19:12taking the trolley to go downtown to

2:19:13work. And now that I feel like we've

2:19:16come back around full circle, um, I'm

2:19:18looking to see how much time. Okay. um

2:19:20because now we're making these decisions

2:19:22again that are going to shape the

2:19:24community for a long time to come as

2:19:26fixed guideway transit does and and a

2:19:28lot of transportation decisions do. So,

2:19:30I would recommend adopting this, but I

2:19:32also don't oppose um holding it off for

2:19:35longer because we clearly do need some

2:19:36more neighborhood input.

2:19:41Thank you. Anybody [clears throat] on

2:19:44the Zoom wishing to speak on this item,

2:19:47please raise your hand or if you're on a

2:19:49cell phone, star nine.

2:20:04Okay. Would the applicant like to

2:20:07respond to some of the

2:20:12>> Sure. Um, with respect to the

2:20:15visualization, I do want to emphasize

2:20:17that the intention of this was not um

2:20:20was not actually creating a design that

2:20:23we would use to follow redevelopment.

2:20:25The idea is to get um community ideas on

2:20:28paper and also to combine those

2:20:31community ideas of what is stated in the

2:20:33comprehensive plan and transit

2:20:34opportunity areas.

2:20:36We can um add additional language that

2:20:41notes that any redevelopment is subject

2:20:43to existing e easements. Um, but we also

2:20:46wanted to make sure that we showed

2:20:47something that could represent not

2:20:49what's going to happen in the next two

2:20:51or three years, but in the future based

2:20:52on what the the TOA designation is.

2:21:00>> Thank you. [clears throat] Public

2:21:02hearing is now closed. We have

2:21:03commissioner comments or discussion.

2:21:05Commissioner Richie,

2:21:07>> I just wanted to follow up on that

2:21:08point. Um,

2:21:11is the current are the renderings is

2:21:14there currently built in um possible

2:21:16under the current UDO?

2:21:20>> Under the current UDO the renderings are

2:21:30>> the Rinsky plan development uh with the

2:21:32low level of detail that's shown on the

2:21:34renderings, right? Like they're really

2:21:35just showing the scale. I can't confirm,

2:21:38you know, it's not the level of a site

2:21:40plan or building permit. Um, but

2:21:43residential uses would be allowed in the

2:21:45current CC district. Uh, up to 50 feet

2:21:48would be allowed in the current um

2:21:50district for the Shaman Center. Um, so a

2:21:54similar development

2:21:56I think could be allowed. Maybe not in

2:21:58that location. There may be other uh

2:22:00restrictions such as easements or

2:22:02private agreements. Um so yeah but but

2:22:05with the low level detail shown on the

2:22:06rendering I can't you know definitively

2:22:08say that.

2:22:10>> Great. I think just this is a follow-up

2:22:12question um with a comment which is that

2:22:16I think this is an excellent plan. Thank

2:22:18you so much staff for putting it

2:22:19together. It is reflective of all the

2:22:21things that we want in Durham. Um and my

2:22:24concern with it is that if we

2:22:26communicate things that we want that

2:22:27aren't actually possible that we're sort

2:22:29of setting ourselves up for failure. Um,

2:22:32and so I think an opportunity and maybe

2:22:34this is a request is that we communicate

2:22:37specifically like right now we actually

2:22:39could not do these things in the plan.

2:22:41Things have to change. And I think being

2:22:43as specific about that as possible is

2:22:45like tomorrow if we tried to make these

2:22:48investments and if there was enough

2:22:49money and enough buy in uh it still

2:22:52actually wouldn't be possible. I want to

2:22:54make sure that we set that expectation

2:22:56because like you said this is a five to

2:22:5810 year goal. Um, and I really really

2:23:00hope we achieve it. But I think

2:23:02expectation setting is a challenge we've

2:23:03had with small area plans in the past

2:23:05and is an opportunity we have for this

2:23:07one to get it right because again I

2:23:09think this is excellent, but I do want

2:23:11to make sure that we're setting

2:23:12expectations as clearly as possible. So

2:23:13I guess I would ask if it is possible

2:23:15for us to put in specific language

2:23:17stating that under the current

2:23:19restrictions or whatever, uh, this is

2:23:22not technically possible and things

2:23:23would have to change.

2:23:26we can put in language that clarifies

2:23:28what is possible at this stage and what

2:23:30isn't and we want to emphasize that even

2:23:33with the toas the considerations of that

2:23:36these are iterative processes right so

2:23:39some areas that are have existing

2:23:40shopping centers the expectation is

2:23:42they're not going to change overnight or

2:23:44even within a couple of years um so we

2:23:46can be more clear with that language

2:23:48>> thank you

2:23:52>> commissioner Chakowski

2:23:54>> uh thank you chair here. [clears throat]

2:23:55I just wanted to start by acknowledging

2:23:57the immense amount of time, energy, and

2:23:59care that that went into this from both

2:24:01staff and and the community. But I do

2:24:02have a couple of quick questions. And so

2:24:04I'd love to know actually a little bit

2:24:06more about the history of small area

2:24:08plans in Durham. And this is I believe

2:24:09the second one that's come to us since

2:24:10I've been uh on on the planning

2:24:12commission. And so how did this get

2:24:14started and sort of what's the why

2:24:15behind small area planning? And this is

2:24:18also for me, but I think hopefully for

2:24:19some folks at home that that might be

2:24:20wondering and wanting to learn more.

2:24:31So B's going to give a bit more

2:24:33information about historically what's

2:24:34been happening. But for the the purposes

2:24:36of these small smaller plans, so

2:24:38starting with Walltown and this small

2:24:39area plan, the intention was to

2:24:42implement the comprehensive plan. So

2:24:44even with the history of what happened

2:24:45before, these are sort of a new

2:24:47approaches to that because of the

2:24:48comprehensive plan and because of our

2:24:50intention um and the intentions that

2:24:52were set for set forth in that plan.

2:24:54>> Yeah. And I think my uh my next question

2:24:57is, you know, do we have any data that

2:24:58we can point to for folks that ask that

2:25:00that show that small area plans are are

2:25:02leading to better outcomes for for

2:25:03Durham, but also surrounding communities

2:25:05as well?

2:25:09Yeah, I think we've got um previous

2:25:11examples uh of long range plans that

2:25:15have been adopted that have resulted in

2:25:16uh zoning changes or um potentially

2:25:19public investment. Uh don't have data in

2:25:22terms of you know quantitative studies

2:25:24across jurisdictions that that I'm aware

2:25:26of.

2:25:27That's something that would would love

2:25:28to see and I think might be beneficial

2:25:30for council to see of of what the

2:25:32benefits are because I think you know

2:25:33the amount of time that went into this.

2:25:35It it's substantial staff staff time and

2:25:37that's one of the most valuable

2:25:38resources the city has and so want to

2:25:40make sure that the outcomes are are

2:25:41yielding us at least what what's going

2:25:43into it. I'd also you know we might not

2:25:45be at the right stage of the process yet

2:25:46but do we have a rough cost for the

2:25:49things that the city of Durham would be

2:25:50owning uh under this plan and and yeah

2:25:53and how much of a cost? So we don't have

2:25:55a rough cost of everything that's in the

2:25:58plan. It would have to be broken up

2:26:00piece-wise recommendation by

2:26:01recommendation and we would need to work

2:26:03with specific departments to determine

2:26:05what those costs would be. So for the

2:26:07spec specific actions for example some

2:26:08of those things are already stated in

2:26:11other departments plans for example the

2:26:14draft bikew walk plan um and they have

2:26:16estimates for what that would be for the

2:26:18area. um and others are things that we

2:26:20recommend be prioritized and that would

2:26:22be th those cost estimates would be

2:26:25determined um prior to the CIP process.

2:26:28>> Okay. And would it be possible for us to

2:26:30get any any rough estimations earlier

2:26:32because I think we're voting on a plan

2:26:35without a price tag, right? We're voting

2:26:36on an aspirational thing and to make a

2:26:38recommendation and I and it feels like

2:26:40we are making an incomplete

2:26:41recommendation without some of those

2:26:43those numbers.

2:26:46And so in

2:26:48in a lot of these cases the so for

2:26:50example if if it goes through the CIP

2:26:52process that will be a part of the

2:26:54budgeting process um within the city and

2:26:57other um other elements of the plan will

2:26:59be addressed through let's say resonings

2:27:02that have that have its own process and

2:27:04have its own um information that's

2:27:06provided in terms of feasibility and

2:27:08thank you

2:27:10>> um I'll just add to I definitely

2:27:12recognize that it is tough um it is also

2:27:15tough for us to come up with cost

2:27:16estimates as the price of construction

2:27:19changes uh and in just generally

2:27:21increases right over time and this is a

2:27:23long range plan so a lot of these things

2:27:25we don't expect to happen tomorrow as

2:27:27Sarah said so predicting the cost of

2:27:30construction over the next however many

2:27:33years is um can be a bit misleading as

2:27:37well right so most of what we want to do

2:27:39is make sure that we are communicating

2:27:42uh what we've heard from residents and

2:27:45ensuring that once we have opportunities

2:27:47to include things within the budget

2:27:49through the CIP or other processes that

2:27:52we have a document which sort of already

2:27:55um outlines those asks. Um I definitely

2:27:58hear you on the cost but I I do just

2:28:00want to be honest that that is that's

2:28:02pretty tough.

2:28:03>> You know that that totally makes sense

2:28:04that that sounds like a mighty tough

2:28:06thing to project. So so understood. Um

2:28:08and I just want to say again thank you

2:28:09all so much for the amount of time and

2:28:10love and effort that went in went into

2:28:12this process. It definitely shows in the

2:28:14document. Um I do think that there we

2:28:17would benefit from delaying and and kind

2:28:18of going back to well on a couple of

2:28:20things uh for my fellow commissioners,

2:28:21but that I'll shut up.

2:28:26>> Uh any other questions, comments?

2:28:29Commissioner Huarez Maldonado.

2:28:33>> Yeah. Um, I just wanted to highlight I

2:28:36think one of the speakers um mentioned

2:28:38the demographics that showed up um

2:28:41weren't really representing of the

2:28:43community. So, I'm wondering if delaying

2:28:46this can help give an opportunity to

2:28:48really talk to community members and and

2:28:50maybe seeing a different approach to

2:28:52outreach um to really get their input.

2:28:55Maybe it could be showing the current

2:28:57map and explaining a little bit more

2:28:59about what you know they like about it

2:29:01and what they would change. So you're

2:29:04not taking away all the work that y'all

2:29:05did, which I'm very appreciative of

2:29:08because I believe a lot in co-governance

2:29:10and bringing community in these spaces,

2:29:13especially when they're the ones who

2:29:15live there. So um yeah, I'm open to also

2:29:18delaying this to ensure that uh people

2:29:20are well represented in that community

2:29:23area.

2:29:27Any other questions, comments?

2:29:32Commissioner Musu Clemens.

2:29:36>> Yes. I echo Commissioner's comments

2:29:39about the input rep the representational

2:29:44um

2:29:46input of the community. I raised I

2:29:48attended many of these community

2:29:50engagement meetings because I live in

2:29:52Lakewood Park and I at each meeting I

2:29:55raised the question of demographics.

2:29:59Yes, community engagement was done, but

2:30:03no, the demographic didn't reflect the

2:30:05community. And in the in the in the

2:30:08draft, it states an effort to recognize

2:30:12the historic African-American

2:30:14neighborhoods in in in the small area

2:30:16plan. That did not happen.

2:30:19I am not sure how the city decides how

2:30:23to hold community engagement, but it did

2:30:25not reach those populations. And that's

2:30:27a tough tough thing to do. I know that.

2:30:29I've done that work. It's not easy. But

2:30:34this is this this plan will impact those

2:30:36neighborhoods and the views of those

2:30:38communities should be reflected and we

2:30:40need to do a better job in how we reach

2:30:42them. Uh the second thing

2:30:46um I'd like to comment on, you know, I

2:30:49love some of the things that we came up

2:30:52with.

2:30:53uh not having any clue as to cost.

2:30:57You we're we're being asked to improve

2:30:59something. It's aspirational and that's

2:31:01fine, but are we setting ourselves up

2:31:03for failure? I don't know.

2:31:07And maybe this is how these things are

2:31:08done. You you you get the views that you

2:31:11can get and then you figure out how to

2:31:13how to cost it out later. But maybe the

2:31:14community knew how much it would cost.

2:31:16They would not be willing. I don't know.

2:31:18But yes, I agree that the demographics

2:31:20of of the neighborhoods don't reflect

2:31:22that. The third thing I'd like to add,

2:31:24Lakewood Park is uh still closed due to

2:31:30lead contamination. And nowhere in the

2:31:32plan does it mention that. What are we

2:31:34going what are we going to do about Lion

2:31:35Park? I mean, Lion Park. Um that's

2:31:39that's the critical piece for me. We we

2:31:41don't talk about that. We talk about

2:31:43Carol Street and the other two, but

2:31:44there was a major park in that

2:31:46neighborhood that served the

2:31:47African-American communities and then

2:31:49those communities around in the small

2:31:52area plan, but there's no mention of

2:31:53what what's going to happen with that.

2:31:55And to me, that's a major failing. So, I

2:31:58appreciate the work that that was done.

2:32:00As I said, I participated in many of

2:32:01those community engagement sessions, so

2:32:04I know what I'm talking about. Thank

2:32:05you.

2:32:08>> Thank you. Any other comments?

2:32:12Vice Chair Cameron.

2:32:14>> Good evening everyone and again thank

2:32:16you to city staff for all this work.

2:32:18Again echoing all my fellow

2:32:20commissioners. One I'm just wondering

2:32:22why all those three neighborhoods were

2:32:24put together because to me Lakewood and

2:32:26the Lakewood Shopping Center is almost

2:32:29its own monster so to speak by itself.

2:32:33Um and then the you know the other

2:32:35neighborhoods I think of more just

2:32:37strictly residential. So, I'm just

2:32:39wondering why, don't have to answer it,

2:32:41just wondering why all three of these

2:32:43neighborhoods were put together for a

2:32:45neighborhood plan when we look at other

2:32:47neighborhoods and it's just that kind of

2:32:48one neighborhood. Um, two, echoing my

2:32:53fellow commissioners too again about uh

2:32:56community engagement um and the myth

2:32:58that black and brown people don't come

2:33:00out. We we do come out. we you just have

2:33:02to have some type of personal handshake,

2:33:05personal invitation sometimes to get

2:33:08them to come out. Um and uh depending

2:33:12upon the type what time of day, the day

2:33:15of the week, all those different type of

2:33:17techniques, get folks out. I've done

2:33:19this as well. Um engaging community

2:33:21advisory committees and getting people

2:33:22to come out to give their input on

2:33:25things. Um and then

2:33:29the other thing is um great we got

2:33:32community input but um there are owners

2:33:36of this shopping center two different

2:33:38owners and long-term leases retail

2:33:41leases. Did we engage the owners and

2:33:44these uh holders of these long tail long

2:33:46long-term leases to get their input in

2:33:50this process as well? They are the

2:33:52owners and part of the community and

2:33:54help shape the community. And again,

2:33:56this is why I think Lakewood is is its

2:33:59own monster by itself. Um, and then just

2:34:03reading through the policy and the

2:34:05recommendations and the guidance, there

2:34:07was a lot of should shoulds, it should

2:34:10do this. And um, it kind of reminds me

2:34:13of shall. And I'm wondering how many of

2:34:15those shoulds could be maze. Um because

2:34:18again we could tie ourselves up into

2:34:20something that really could not happen

2:34:22and set ourselves up for disappointment

2:34:24and things that don't work um for uh

2:34:28financing of redevelopments and how long

2:34:31it may take for city improvements. Um so

2:34:34with all that I think that some of these

2:34:36things should be considered and I'm uh

2:34:39for uh delaying this for a little bit as

2:34:41well.

2:34:44[snorts]

2:34:44>> All right. Anybody else have any input?

2:34:49All right. May I have a motion to

2:34:54I just had a couple of comments. Um so

2:34:57with respect to Lion Park, we don't have

2:35:00a specific recommendation in there, but

2:35:02we do mention that they're undergoing um

2:35:05analysis by DEQ. So as a part of this

2:35:08plan, we actually are not able to make

2:35:09decisions on that. That's going to be um

2:35:12after we get the after we get the

2:35:13information BEQ working with the parks

2:35:16and recreation department, they'll

2:35:17determine based on the level of

2:35:18contamination what should be done moving

2:35:21forward. And there's also a process of

2:35:23funding for that. So that's why we

2:35:25didn't include in this specific plan

2:35:27because there are too many aspects that

2:35:28are outside of um the purview of what

2:35:30we're doing at this point.

2:35:33And I did want to say um in terms of

2:35:35terms of engagement and outreach, we

2:35:38intentionally held our engagements at

2:35:41the Community Family Life and Recreation

2:35:43Center at Lion Park. Um went to several

2:35:45events at um the Community Family Life

2:35:48and and Recreation Center at Lion Park

2:35:50as well as several community events

2:35:52flying letting people know that this

2:35:54event is happening. I do recognize that

2:35:56the numbers do not reflect um do not

2:35:59reflect what the the neighborhood looks

2:36:00like. I also want to do I also want to

2:36:02say that um the numbers are also fairly

2:36:05skewed from the online surveys and

2:36:07online surveys tend to um lend

2:36:10themselves more to flu folks who are

2:36:12more affluent and white. Um so that also

2:36:15impacts the overall numbers. Um the

2:36:18numbers looked a little bit different in

2:36:19terms of what was happening in person.

2:36:22And I do want to note um that the

2:36:25decision to include uh Lion Park and the

2:36:29West End was because we didn't want to

2:36:31solely focus on a commercial area

2:36:32without recognizing that there are

2:36:34impacts um in terms of what happens in

2:36:36that shopping center and how it impacts

2:36:38other communities. So we wanted to look

2:36:39at what investment is happening in those

2:36:42neighborhoods and what can be improved

2:36:44before something like this um a

2:36:45redevelopment like this happens.

2:36:50Thank you for that response. Any other

2:36:53questions from the commissioners?

2:36:56Any discussion?

2:36:59>> Yes, Commissioner Richie.

2:37:01This is kind of to fellow commissioners,

2:37:04so I'm not really sure how this question

2:37:05sits, but I am curious what we're

2:37:06asking. Um, you know, we've seen the

2:37:10history of small area plans in Durham,

2:37:12and some are very positive, some are

2:37:14challenging. I think that um one of the

2:37:17questions I would ask is is what we are

2:37:19asking specifically of staff here. Is it

2:37:22to do a whole another engagement

2:37:23process? Um is it to do things to change

2:37:26those numbers? I think that those are

2:37:28very very legitimate concerns. The

2:37:30[clears throat] concern I have on the

2:37:31other side is that um the

2:37:37challenges that we've had in the past is

2:37:38that delay has led to really poor

2:37:40outcomes. Um I think Northgate is a

2:37:42great example of that. I don't think

2:37:44that anyone got what they wanted there.

2:37:46Um, and that's not to say that either

2:37:50[sighs]

2:37:51that that would change here, but I do I

2:37:53want to make sure that we are very clear

2:37:54about what we're asking and that we're

2:37:56putting in a time round that staff can

2:37:57actually work with because I agree that

2:37:59these numbers are not reflective of what

2:38:01we want in terms of demographics. But I

2:38:03also worry um about a year-long process

2:38:06becoming a fiveyearong process and that

2:38:08leading to the types of development that

2:38:10we definitely don't want in Lakewood

2:38:11moving forward. Um, so wanted to add

2:38:14that as a note and just clarify the ask

2:38:16before we sort of let this sit. Can

2:38:19someone clarify what the ask is to staff

2:38:21in terms of further engagement?

2:38:28If I may,

2:38:29>> Commissioner Clemens,

2:38:30>> I I would say uh

2:38:36we need a different kind of outreach

2:38:40so that we really can feel at the end of

2:38:42the day we have community input that

2:38:44reflects these three neighborhoods.

2:38:47Um and

2:38:49I am not always certain that's faster is

2:38:52better.

2:38:54And so I I don't know

2:38:57Hey, I'm I'm not sure faster is better.

2:39:00I would rather slow the process and feel

2:39:04at the end of the day we really

2:39:05understand what the community wants. How

2:39:08do we balance community needs and

2:39:10expectations against what is doable in

2:39:13Durham and financially sometimes that we

2:39:16will be able to balance other times we

2:39:17will not be. But right now we couldn't

2:39:19answer those kinds of questions and so I

2:39:21think we need to give it some more time.

2:39:26Commission, Vice Chair Cameron,

2:39:28>> and I so and with that what's doable and

2:39:31not I I just think that because Lakewood

2:39:34and having the two owners is so funky

2:39:37and you have um a longtime retail client

2:39:40there, really understanding that whole

2:39:44um

2:39:47layout and what's doable and what's not,

2:39:50I think is really important, especially

2:39:52if we're um showing some uh elevation.

2:39:57And um so and I you know I don't know

2:40:00how long those leases go but I do know

2:40:02retail leases kind of go 40 years

2:40:04sometimes. So um when we when we're

2:40:07talking about 10 years out in the future

2:40:10still may not be doable 10 years out in

2:40:12the future. So just having a a good

2:40:15understanding of that um and engaging

2:40:18those two owners would be great.

2:40:23I think everybody knows the scrap

2:40:24exchange is one owner and then some

2:40:26other people are other owners of

2:40:28Lakewood if you're not clear of what I'm

2:40:29talking about.

2:40:34Yes, thank you. Um, Commissioner Richie,

2:40:37to your point about the Northgate

2:40:38project, I don't know that I know the

2:40:42small area plan there

2:40:45was

2:40:46not it was based on the comprehensive

2:40:49plan and that is not an enforcable

2:40:52ordinance. Um, so if this is according

2:40:58to the comprehensive plan or the current

2:41:01UDO which is being rewritten or redone,

2:41:05it would be enforcable under a different

2:41:09maybe better for Durham

2:41:11policy. Um,

2:41:17whether that would have happened or not,

2:41:19I don't know that. Yeah, that that that

2:41:21outcome may still have been the same on

2:41:23the Northgate plan. I don't know. But

2:41:26anyway, so

2:41:29what I'm hearing here is we need more

2:41:32time on this project and better

2:41:34community engagement. I don't know how

2:41:37well to get the people out, make it not

2:41:39online, go out to talk to the people and

2:41:43get input and maybe by the time we get

2:41:45the actual input and from the proper

2:41:48demographics that represent the people

2:41:51that are there,

2:41:53then it would be but what's within our

2:41:56power tonight, I believe, is to delay

2:41:59for three cycles at the maximum.

2:42:03Is that correct?

2:42:11Sorry, holding up. Yeah, I I just wanted

2:42:14to ask that obviously uh as you all are

2:42:16familiar um delay to a day certain um

2:42:20for notification purposes. Um and I

2:42:23wanted to uh clarify obviously we can

2:42:27you know continue to try to uh engage

2:42:30with community members certainly um in

2:42:32the interest of more representative um

2:42:35participation but in those 90 days we

2:42:38would not be able to provide um accurate

2:42:41uh cost information for the entire

2:42:44implementation of the plan. So, I just

2:42:45wanted to really um be upfront about uh

2:42:49expectations for you all and and what we

2:42:51were able to accomplish in that time

2:42:52frame.

2:42:59>> Yes. Uh Commissioner Huarez, um I'm I'm

2:43:03curious about the outreach.

2:43:05Um I do organizing as well and I think

2:43:08one of the most effective ways of

2:43:10outreach is door knockocking because

2:43:12then you get to the actual residents who

2:43:13are in that community. Um, has that been

2:43:17done uh as part of like community

2:43:19engagement?

2:43:21Um,

2:43:22and maybe it could help uh in, you know,

2:43:26getting people who are engaged or maybe

2:43:27even the schools that are nearby um the

2:43:30churches that are nearby um and really

2:43:33gathering the people who live there. Um

2:43:38yeah, I'm just wondering maybe or I

2:43:40don't know if it's more of a comment on

2:43:42like maybe we could do door knocking.

2:43:45um to get a better response and actually

2:43:49perspectives of the folks that live

2:43:50there.

2:43:52>> For the engagement launch, we sent out

2:43:54notices to all um residential and

2:43:58commercial properties in the area. Um we

2:44:03for so small for smaller plans um and

2:44:06sort of based on the amount of staffing

2:44:08we have um knocking on residential doors

2:44:11isn't an option but we were able to um

2:44:14visit locations commercial um businesses

2:44:17around shops at Lakewood and knock on

2:44:19doors and let them know that the project

2:44:21was going on and invite them to events.

2:44:23Um we did have extens extensive um

2:44:26communication with both the Strap

2:44:28Exchange and Brody Co. Um,

2:44:31and in terms of reaching out to

2:44:34residences, we we primarily work with

2:44:38the neighborhood associations

2:44:40um because they have a list of folks

2:44:42that that they're in communication with

2:44:44already. Um, and we rely on them to

2:44:46bring to bring people out when we can.

2:44:48Um, and then we also go to neighborhood

2:44:51events and do tableabling to try to get

2:44:53folks to be as involved as possible. Um,

2:44:56but we were not able to do uh

2:44:58door-to-door knocking for this.

2:45:06All right. Anybody else? Any more

2:45:08questions, comments? No.

2:45:12[sighs]

2:45:13May I have a motion

2:45:16to

2:45:19delay this item for three cycles?

2:45:28If you decide to make that motion, we

2:45:30would uh ask that you move that to a

2:45:32date certain rather than just three

2:45:34cycles. Uh three cycles from now would

2:45:37be January 12th following your normal

2:45:41uh second Tuesday of the uh of the

2:45:45month. You have not adopted your meeting

2:45:48calendar yet. Um that will happen next

2:45:51month. um that a proposed meeting

2:45:54calendar will be brought to you next

2:45:56month. Um so the only the only wrinkle

2:45:59here could be if you move it to January

2:46:0112th and then for whatever reason you

2:46:04decide not to meet on January 12th, we

2:46:06could end up with a problem. Just want

2:46:07to throw that out there.

2:46:09>> Yes. And I don't know, three months for

2:46:12community engagement, I guess it's

2:46:14better than nothing,

2:46:16especially over the holiday season. But

2:46:18>> and again again that's fine. just um

2:46:22just just so it's been said that uh

2:46:24we're we're assuming your meeting on

2:46:26January 12th even though we have not

2:46:27adopted that yet.

2:46:30Okay,

2:46:30>> chair. I'm ready. Make a motion. Chair,

2:46:34regarding case.

2:46:35>> Oh, I did I didn't want to offer um we

2:46:38could extend this for 60 days, which

2:46:40would send us to December 10th. It would

2:46:42allow some engagement prior to the

2:46:44holiday season. Um particularly because

2:46:47after that date, it would be fairly hard

2:46:48to engage with people um in late

2:46:51December and early January.

2:46:53>> And I just want to say engage the owners

2:46:55too. not just the community but the

2:46:57owners of Lakewood Shopping Center.

2:46:59>> So December 10th and then if it doesn't

2:47:01come out we do another month until

2:47:03January.

2:47:05>> Just to clarify it would be December 8th

2:47:06and obviously if that it's up to you all

2:47:09it's up to you all. We just wanted to

2:47:11offer that option that you know um we

2:47:13would obviously be jumping on

2:47:15>> J.

2:47:25December.

2:47:27>> Okay.

2:47:30>> We have to say this out loud.

2:47:31>> Do you Okay. I'm sure. I want to make

2:47:34sure we're before I make the motion. 90

2:47:37or 60. [clears throat]

2:47:39>> So, for me, if we're meeting on December

2:47:428th,

2:47:42>> yes.

2:47:43>> When the staff reports need to be out a

2:47:44couple weeks, I mean, is that enough

2:47:46time to do

2:47:50Let's do January 12th.

2:47:52>> Yeah.

2:47:53>> Okay. And if they get it done faster,

2:47:54right, they can come faster, right?

2:47:57Yeah. Okay. Chair, in regards to

2:48:01small area updates,

2:48:05Lakewood West End, Lion Park, and small

2:48:07area plan. I move that we delay um

2:48:12hearing um moving.

2:48:14>> Excuse me. It's going to be a move to

2:48:16continue. Move to Okay. Move to Thank

2:48:19you. I'm trying to get the wording

2:48:20right. Move to continue this case or

2:48:24this plan um until January 12th, 2027

2:48:32to allow for the concerns of the

2:48:34planning commission to be addressed.

2:48:40>> Second.

2:48:42It has the move to continue has been

2:48:45moved by Vice Chair Cameron and seconded

2:48:49by Commissioner Bailey to have this on

2:48:54January 12th.

2:48:57Do we do an electronic vote or just an

2:49:02uh we'll have an electronic vote,

2:49:04please? Thank you.

2:49:30The motion passes 11 to zero.

2:49:35>> Okay.

2:49:37Next item on the agenda number eight,

2:49:39committee updates.

2:49:42I don't believe there's any committee

2:49:43updates.

2:49:45Um,

2:49:46so we move to item number nine, new

2:49:48business, election of officers.

2:49:51>> Yes. So, uh, normally you elect your

2:49:54officers in September, but we had our,

2:49:57um, retreat last month, so we will be

2:50:00doing it this month. Um, just as a

2:50:02reminder, uh, Chair Shagaras can serve a

2:50:05second term. Um,

2:50:09but if you do decide to go with somebody

2:50:11other than Chair Shagaras as the chair,

2:50:14you would need to bring you would have

2:50:16to be a city appointee. And then if you

2:50:19do that, if Chair Shagaras is reelected,

2:50:22uh, you would need to have a city

2:50:24appointee be the vice chair. If Chair

2:50:26Shagaras is not reelected, you would

2:50:28need to have a city appointee be the

2:50:30chair and then a county appointee be the

2:50:33vice chair. With that, I will turn it

2:50:35over to you.

2:50:37>> I make a motion that we have I would

2:50:40like to nominate Vice Chair Cameron to

2:50:42be chair.

2:50:46>> Second.

2:50:50>> Do we electronically vote or do we just

2:50:52say yes or no?

2:50:55>> Please.

2:50:57All in favor?

2:50:59I

2:51:02the there are the eyes have it.

2:51:06My god.

2:51:12I move that um I nominate um Chair

2:51:17Shagares as vice chair.

2:51:21>> Second.

2:51:24>> All in favor?

2:51:27I. The eyes have it. There are no nays.

2:51:32>> All right, staff announcements.

2:51:34>> Yes, I just have one staff announcement

2:51:36that I'm very sad to make. Um, he's not

2:51:39here to say goodbye because his last day

2:51:41was Friday. Andy Lester is no longer

2:51:43with Durham Planning and Development. He

2:51:45has taken a position in another

2:51:47jurisdiction. So, uh, please bear with

2:51:50the rest of us that remain. uh we may be

2:51:53a little bit slower getting back to you

2:51:55and we're going to be looking to fulfill

2:51:57fill that position as soon as we can.

2:52:03>> All right, Andy, we'll miss you. Have

2:52:05fun in Burlington. Uh item number 11,

2:52:09adjournment 8:22 p.m.

2:52:12We're journed.