2026-10-08 - City Council Work Session

00:10Hey,

00:22hey, hey.

00:38Good afternoon everyone. I'm going to go

00:39ahead and call us to order at 1 PM. Um,

00:45>> okay. Thank you. I'm being told can't be

00:47heard. Is that better? Okay. Thank you.

00:49Um, Madame Clerk, could you please call

00:51the role?

00:52>> Good afternoon. Um, Mayor Williams has

00:55an excused absence. Oh,

00:57>> we have to do the excused absence, but

00:58thank you.

00:59>> You're welcome.

01:00>> Um, Mayor Pro Cavier

01:02>> here.

01:03>> Council member Baker

01:04>> here.

01:04>> Council member Bur

01:05>> here.

01:06>> Council member Cook

01:07>> here.

01:08>> Council member Copac

01:09>> here.

01:10>> And Council Member Rys has an excused

01:11absence.

01:12>> Thank you. Um, could I please get an

01:14excused absence for Mayor Williams?

01:16>> I'll make a motion for that absence.

01:18>> Can I have a second, please?

01:19>> Second.

01:19>> I have a motion, a second. All in favor?

01:22>> Any opposed? Okay, that motion carries.

01:24Mayor Williams also has an excused

01:26absence for today. Um,

01:29we have a ceremonial item today. Um, so

01:33our our day is going to look a little

01:34different. So, we have a ceremonial

01:35item. Um, I'm just going to read it uh

01:38from here, but I I do want to invite

01:40those who are being honored today for

01:42digital inclusion week proclamation to

01:45go ahead and come to the mic so that

01:47when um when it's your opportunity to

01:50provide us with some words that you're

01:52you're here. Thank you.

02:01Um whereas the city of Durham promotes

02:03digital inclusion to ensure all

02:05residents have the technology needed to

02:07achieve their health, education and

02:09economic goals, access to reliable and

02:11affordable internet, access to internet

02:13enabled devices that meet the needs of

02:15the user and access to dig digital

02:17literacy and training are basic elements

02:20for digital inclusion. And whereas the

02:22Durham City Council has approved the

02:23digital equity plan developed by Digital

02:25Durham for the city of Durham and Durham

02:27County. And whereas the city of Durham

02:29in collaboration with Durham County,

02:31Craden Institute, Digital Durham, Friday

02:33Institute and other partners has

02:35implemented programs to close the

02:36digital divide through device

02:38distribution and digital literacy. And

02:40whereas the city of Durham is partnering

02:42with digital brilliance hour to provide

02:44technology education, game development,

02:46and music produ production to students,

02:48the city of Durham is partnering with

02:51local internet service providers to

02:53offer affordable internet options to

02:55low-wealth households. And whereas the

02:56city of Durham's efforts to make digital

02:58inclusion a reality has been recognized

03:00by the National Dig Digital Inclusion

03:02Alliance with the highest honor as a

03:04visionary digital inclusion trailblazer.

03:06Now therefore, I, Leonardo Williams,

03:08mayor of the city of Durham, North

03:09Carolina, do hereby proclaim October 4th

03:11through 10th, 2026 as digital inclusion

03:14week in Durham and hereby urge all

03:16residents to recognize that access to to

03:18technology is not merely a convenience

03:20or a privilege, but it is fundamental to

03:21the success and good quality of life of

03:24all our residents. Witness my hand and

03:26the corporate seal of the city of

03:27Durham, North Carolina, this 8th day of

03:29October, 2026. Leonardo Williams, mayor.

03:37Thank you so much for being with us

03:39today.

03:39>> Yes. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim, um,

03:42esteemed members of the city council and

03:44everyone present today. My name is

03:47Patrice Carol and I'm honored to stand

03:49before you as the digital inclusion

03:51program manager for the city of Durl to

03:53accept the proclamation for digital

03:56inclusion week. Together, we are

03:58dedicated partner digital Durl. We are

04:01truly grateful for the recognition and

04:03support of our efforts to promote

04:06digital equity in our community.

04:09This proclamation represents more than

04:11just a week of observance. It symbolizes

04:14our collective commitment to ensuring

04:16that every individual in Durham has

04:19access to the tools and resources

04:21necessary for success in our

04:23increasingly

04:25digital world. Digital inclusion is not

04:28just about technology. It is about

04:30empowering people to achieve their

04:33health, educational and economic goals

04:36to collaborate and to participate fully

04:39in society. It is about equipping

04:42individuals with the knowledge and

04:44skills to utilize these resources

04:46effectively. Throughout the week, we

04:48will highlight the initiatives and

04:51programs aimed at providing digital

04:53literacy.

04:55and we encourage everyone to join us in

04:58fostering a community where no one is

05:00left behind in our digital age. Let us

05:03continue to work together towards a

05:05future where digital equity is the norm

05:08and not the exception. Thank you.

05:11>> Thank you so much.

05:16>> Thank you, Mayor Prom and the members of

05:19the city council, everyone here today.

05:21Um I'm Jenna Bryant. I'm honored to

05:23support this proclamation recognizing

05:25digital inclusion week. Um, and I'm

05:29supporting on behalf of Digital Derm,

05:31where I have the privilege of serving as

05:32the vice chair of the board. At Digital

05:34Derm, we're proud to work along this

05:36alongside the city um, and many of our

05:40community partners to make digital

05:41opportunity accessible to everyone

05:43regardless of age, income, or

05:45neighborhood. Thank you for recognizing

05:47general uh digital inclusion week and

05:49for your continued commitment to

05:51eliminating the digital divide. Thank

05:54you.

05:55>> Thank you. And before you all leave, let

05:56me walk up and

06:15thank you. Next up, um we're going to go

06:17a little out of order and I'm going to

06:18give uh Manager Ferguson an opportunity

06:20to provide us some uh updates um from uh

06:24earlier events from today.

06:29>> Thank you, Madame Mayor Prom, members of

06:31council. Um it is with uh gravity and

06:36grief that that I repeat the news that I

06:39know uh you all received this morning

06:40and most of our community have heard at

06:42this point that a city of Durham

06:45employee, a firefighter um was uh lost

06:49in the line of duty this morning uh uh

06:52and uh two other firefighters were

06:54injured. Uh let me just read you a

06:57little bit of information from uh a

07:00press release that that uh Chief Zoldos

07:03uh read to the media about an hour ago

07:05on site. Um

07:08the a call for service uh came in this

07:11morning, a 911 call at 410 Marley Drive

07:14in Durham. This is actually this

07:16location is uh in Durham County, but

07:19it's right off of Miami Boulevard. This

07:21is in a section of Durham County that

07:23that the Durham Fire Department protects

07:25as part of your ILA uh and as a uh a

07:29result of the uh absorption of what used

07:33to be the Bethesda and Parkwood fire

07:35department. So, it's in that service

07:37area, but it is our it we are the

07:39primary uh service provider. Um the

07:42first fire truck arrived on scene at

07:44321. Uh the the structure was visibly

07:48involved. Smoke and flames were uh

07:50coming from the structure. Firefighters

07:52began their attack and additional units

07:55were in route. Um it is a multi-story

07:58structure. Right now we're describing it

08:00as a commercial building, but there was

08:02an apartment in the building and there

08:04were uh a number of residences in the

08:07building. They uh they it is now

08:10confirmed um that they were all able to

08:12get out safely from the building. Uh

08:14firefighters made entry into the

08:16building and began their um began their

08:19attack. At 3:31 a.m. a portion of the

08:22building's roof collapsed and that

08:24caused the second floor to collapse as

08:27well. There were firefighters on the

08:29roof. There were also firefighters

08:30inside on the first floor during the

08:32collapse. Um several firefighters were

08:35trapped by that collapse and issued a

08:37mayday. As a result, one of the

08:39firefighters was killed in the line of

08:41duty and two others were injured. The

08:43two injured were taken to Duke Medical

08:45Center for treatment. Uh all occupants,

08:48as I said earlier, the occupants of the

08:50building, it is now determined were

08:51definitely out uh of the building. Uh so

08:55no one else was injured. Um uh I have uh

08:59since uh been able to to see the uh the

09:02the two employees, they've been released

09:04from Duke Hospital and they actually

09:05came back out on the scene. Um, Chief

09:09Zeldos uh went to Burlington uh this

09:12morning to notify uh the family in

09:15person of the passing of uh their uh

09:19their family member. Um at their uh at

09:23their request, the family did come on

09:24scene um uh about two hours ago. I was

09:28able to meet with the family along with

09:30Chief Zoldos to uh share our condolences

09:33on behalf of the entire city of Durham.

09:35Uh, and uh, I know the family

09:37appreciated that support. I do want to

09:39just highlight that um, the lead

09:42investigation will will be the the

09:44investigation will be led by the SBI,

09:47but I want to make clear that doesn't

09:48imply anything unusual about the nature

09:50of the fire. That is uh, standard uh,

09:53practice. We invited the FBI in. Uh,

09:56it's a thorough investigation has to

09:58happen when you've had a line of duty

10:00death. And so the SBI will be leading it

10:03and therefore the SBI is uh in charge of

10:06decisions about the release of any

10:07additional information. Uh we are not

10:10immediately releasing the name of the

10:13deceased employee, but that information

10:14will go out shortly. Uh we just wanted

10:17to give the family members a chance to

10:19share um that news with loved ones. Uh I

10:23just want to share my appreciation for

10:26the uh tremendous support and and

10:29outreach I I have been contacted by uh

10:32directly by uh organizations across

10:35North Carolina uh representatives of

10:38government inside and outside of

10:39government. The fire department has been

10:41inundated with offers of support. Uh the

10:44police department was fully engaged this

10:47morning in uh providing support. uh the

10:51uh you know I'd ask folks to remember uh

10:53the 911 telecommunicators who took the

10:55call and had to respond to the Mayday.

10:57It's an extremely emotional and uh and

11:00difficult situation and one in which

11:02they performed uh extremely well. Uh

11:05Durham County Sheriff's Office, EMS,

11:07Durham City County Emergency Management,

11:09all on site this morning. The SBI, North

11:12Carolina Emergency Management, and a

11:13number of other agencies. I'm sure that

11:15I will uh forget to name all of them.

11:18Um, but I just want to in these early

11:21hours appreciate that that sense of

11:23partnership. I know that uh I know that

11:26I appreciate the condolences that

11:28council has sent this morning and and

11:30Mayor Williams, I know he is out of

11:31town, but he has called me and uh

11:34expressed his deep sympathy and support.

11:36Uh we will uh obviously we have uh

11:39extended uh full support resources to um

11:44the uh to all of our staff uh both

11:47targeted in the fire department but also

11:49in uh 911 and and we have EAP resources

11:54for our our whole city employee family

11:56uh and their dependent. Uh we will uh

11:59have uh tremendous amount of support for

12:02the family of our deceased firefighter.

12:04Uh and uh as as uh time passes, we'll

12:08we'll share whatever details we can

12:10around that. I think those are all the

12:12comments. Want to want to thank the city

12:14attorney's office this morning, they

12:15came on scene to also offer uh support

12:18to our staff uh in in being interviewed

12:20by the SBI and so appreciate their

12:22support as well. Um, I think that is all

12:25the information I have to share at this

12:27time. I again want to thank the council

12:29for their expressions of support and

12:31thank the community. Uh, this is a

12:33extremely uh dark day for the Durham

12:36Fire Department, but I am also uh

12:38extremely proud to have seen the

12:39professionalism and the uh uh and the

12:43the uh dedication to duty that I that I

12:46witnessed all morning on scene. So,

12:48thank you madam man.

12:50>> Thank you colleagues. folks are open to

12:52it. I would like to actually have a

12:53moment of silence at this time uh for

12:55that uh firefighter and um their family

12:58and for the fire department and everyone

13:00uh in our um emergency services

13:03emergency services realm. Uh, I know

13:05that it has been a trying day for them.

13:26Thank you. Um, at this time uh I would

13:29like colleagues if they would like to

13:31have any announcements. I will request

13:32for folks. I know that we are have this

13:34at top of mind and my only other um

13:36request today is if we can just keep our

13:38comments to any pertinent business that

13:40is in front of us today. I feel like the

13:42the moment calls for that. Um so, uh

13:48no. Okay. Uh Council Member Cook, thank

13:50you. I No. Council member Burrus,

13:53Council Member Copek.

13:57Um

13:58we're going to address the issue this

14:00issue first if anyone wanted to offer

14:02any comments about um the tragedy this

14:04morning and then uh take up any

14:06pertinent business that we need to take

14:08up today. We we'll do that after. I just

14:11want to give folks the opportunity if

14:12they wanted to express any words.

14:15>> Go ahead, Council Member Baker. Sorry.

14:17>> Thank you. Um yeah, some [clears throat]

14:25>> manager Ferguson, thank you so much for

14:26that update. Um and uh we will it's been

14:31it this is a hard day for our community.

14:33Um

14:36Council Member Copek, I do think you had

14:37something that um we do need to take up

14:39today and I don't know if you want to do

14:40that at this time or if we can take it

14:42up if you need a moment later on in the

14:43agenda.

14:50We can handle it at the end of the

14:51meeting under other items as well if

14:53folks would rather do that.

14:54>> Okay.

14:56>> Okay. So, I will just need a reminder at

14:59the end of the meeting to take it up. Um

15:00because I might forget. I'm just being

15:02honest. Um but it seems like we all are

15:04in um a hard moment and I want to honor

15:07that. So, um I'm going to keep us moving

15:10forward.

15:16Um,

15:20thank you. Um,

15:24Manager Ferguson, do you have any

15:25priority items?

15:30>> Good afternoon, Mayor Prom, members of

15:32council. The city manager's office does

15:34have two brief priority items. The first

15:36is that for agenda item number 11,

15:38construction services contract with the

15:41Daniel Company LLC for the Durham City

15:43Hall reconfiguration project. There is a

15:45short presentation for this item. Then

15:48for agenda item number 21, which was

15:51under GBA, consolidated annexation

15:53courtyards at Leville. This item has

15:55been referred back to staff at the

15:57request of the applicant. Those are the

15:59city manager's office priority items.

16:02>> Thank you so much. Um, madame attorney,

16:04do you have any priority items?

16:09>> Madame Mayor Pertim, I do not have any

16:11priority items, but if the council is

16:13okay, I would like to um make a brief

16:16introduction.

16:17Okay. Um, the UNCC School of Government

16:21has founded a new fellowship program in

16:23honor of Judith Wgner, who was a leading

16:27scholar in our state, specialist in

16:28state and local government law, longtime

16:31professor at UNCC law school, and the

16:34first female dean of the law school. Um,

16:37and the fellowship is a one-year

16:41fellowship in partnership with the

16:43school of government that places a

16:47recent law school graduate and bar

16:50admittee um, in an office to work with a

16:53city, a local government. And I'm proud

16:56and happy to say that the city of Durham

16:58was selected as the first city uh, to

17:01host a UNC SOG Judith Wgner fellow. and

17:05I wanted to introduce that person. Um,

17:07Lucas Lawrence, did you come up?

17:11>> So, Lucas has joined the city attorney's

17:13office as the Wagner Fellow. Um, Lucas

17:17will be with us for one year uh just as

17:20a member of our team. Count count Lucas

17:22count him as an additional attorney in

17:24the office and uh you'll be seeing Lucas

17:27around. Did you want to say anything?

17:29>> Nope. Okay. [laughter]

17:31Thank you.

17:32>> Thank you so much. Welcome to the Bull

17:34City. We know you're going to do

17:35excellent work.

17:38>> Madame Clerk, do we have any priority

17:40items?

17:41>> Good afternoon, Mayor Bim and council

17:44members. Um, no. The city clerk's office

17:46does not have any priority items, but I

17:48do have the BCCT report. Um, Durham

17:52Convention and Visitor Bureau. Um, L.

17:56Douglas Pender has been appointed for

17:58lodging and full services.

18:00>> Thank you so much.

18:01>> Welcome. And now I'm going to go to our

18:03public comment period. We have several

18:05folks uh signed up for public comment.

18:07I'm going to go with the one the person

18:08who is published on our agenda, then

18:10move on to those folks who are online

18:12and then move on to those folks who are

18:13here in person. So um I have Karen

18:16Boswell.

18:24>> Yes, ma'am.

18:26>> Good afternoon. Thank you for being with

18:28us. You have three minutes.

18:30>> Yes, ma'am. Good afternoon uh to mayor,

18:32city council, and city manager and

18:34everyone in the room. First, I just want

18:36to do a moment of silence, just two

18:37seconds for the firefighter this morning

18:40for Durham that lost his life. My name

18:42is Karen Boswell, a Durham resident, LLC

18:45owner, and a licensed pending North

18:47Carolina private investigator. At my

18:49last public comment, the chief of police

18:51had the audacity to dismiss actual human

18:54trafficking as a conspiracy. Let's talk

18:58about reality. A mother and her sister

19:00were criminally charged here in Durham

19:02for sex trafficking a 13 and 14 year old

19:04little girl for money and drugs while

19:06they sat aside. If you look up Antinet

19:09Lambertson or Sonia Morales. So that's

19:12not really a conspiracy. That's just

19:15typical for DPD behavior. Refusing to be

19:17transparent, sweeping horrific crimes

19:20under the rug. The police memo issued

19:23under this leadership tries to paint my

19:25safety concerns as a statistical burden,

19:28claiming

19:30numerous reports, records requests, but

19:32official reports are inaccurate. And if

19:36leadership deliberately manufactures and

19:38peru per perpetuates over [snorts] time

19:41inaccuracies to match their own

19:43failures, then the leadership itself is

19:45inaccurate and desperately needs to be

19:49investigated. When an agency's command

19:51structure is fundamentally broken and

19:54corrupt, it must be dismantled. No

19:56individual should ever have to endure

19:58the system where abusers can weaponize

20:01up to 10 exparte 50b protection orders

20:05in a year, manufacture false charges out

20:08of malice, and manipulate involuntary

20:11commitment frameworks while police look

20:14the other way. We see the deep-seated

20:17conflicts and civil rights violations

20:19every day. They're ignored where due

20:21process is denied. Family ties within

20:24the department, especially my ex, Robert

20:26Harris, protect members and are allowed

20:29to harass, threaten, lie under oath

20:31without consequences. While victims who

20:34speak truth to power are gas lit, and

20:38patholicized. Yet, if a citizen's single

20:41statement were proven false, they were

20:43instantly locked away. We are not equal

20:46under this current administration.

20:48Considering the shape of this city and

20:50the defense leaders, defensive

20:52leadership running our police

20:53department, an independent investigation

20:55into the Durham Police Department

20:57command is long overdue. Please stop

21:00gaslighting the public to deflect from

21:02reality. Stop dismissing child

21:03exploitation as a conspiracy. Start

21:06demanding real accountability. And I'll

21:08see you guys next week if I'm able to to

21:10kind of let y'all know what's going on

21:12in the city. And I thank you so much for

21:13your time. And please look into

21:15narcissistic abuse. It is not domestic

21:18violence and I don't want to be a

21:20Netflix documentary like Michael Miller

21:23before I'm heard. Thank you so much. God

21:26bless everyone.

21:28Thank you.

21:29The next virtual speaker I have is Emily

21:31Sutton.

21:42Good afternoon, Miss Sutton.

21:51Miss, I'm not sure if you're on mute on

21:53your end.

21:55Okay.

21:57>> Hello. Can you can you hear me?

21:58>> Yes, ma'am. We can. Good afternoon.

22:00Thank you for being with us. You have

22:02three minutes.

22:02>> Oh, I can't hear you. Okay. Um, I'm just

22:04gonna

22:05>> me now.

22:06>> Read my comment. Thank you. U, my name

22:09is Emily Sutton. I'm the executive

22:11director and Haw River keeper at Haw

22:13River Assembly and I'm speaking for our

22:16members in Durham and across the

22:17watershed. I'm asking the city council

22:20to deny city water connections to new

22:22data centers in Durham County starting

22:24with project Lloyd. I'm also asking the

22:27city and county planning department to

22:29stop accepting data center applications

22:31filed as industrial light use. Project

22:34Lloyd would be 88,200

22:36square feet and 50 megawws with a 21,000

22:40square foot substation and 20 natural

22:42gas generators. That is a heavy

22:45industrial facility with heavy impacts

22:47and it should not carry a light

22:49industrial label. Durham is in drought

22:51conditions. We have not seen how much

22:54water project Lloyd would use and

22:57residents deserve to know before anyone

22:59signs a water agreement. This is our

23:01shared water supply and we should have a

23:03say in how it's spent. Rateers have

23:06already asked for this. We're paying a

23:0912% increase in water utility rates and

23:12part of that money brings tier quarry

23:14online as an emergency water source

23:16because of the drought. Part of it

23:19upgrades our treatment systems to filter

23:21out PAS and perloral alkal substances

23:24which are carcinogenic and you and we

23:27know that data centers use these

23:29heavily. So asking families to pay for

23:32emergency water and PAS treatment while

23:35approving an industry that strains the

23:37supply and adds to the contamination is

23:39unfair to Durham residents. We refuse to

23:42pay for more infrastructure and cleanup

23:44for private industries that cause harm.

23:47The water problem reaches well past the

23:49property line. Soaring electricity

23:51demand from data centers like this one

23:53is the primary driver of new Duke Energy

23:56and Inbridge fossil fuel plants. Those

23:58plants use immense amounts of water and

24:01they poison our air, water, and land.

24:03Communities downstream and downwind pay

24:06that price. We know that more

24:08applications are coming. County

24:10commissioners shared on August 24th that

24:12two more projects are nearly ready to

24:14file and the moratorum loopholes exempt

24:17the data centers that are up to 100,000

24:20square feet which can use 100 megawws.

24:24So, city council can act right now by

24:26denying the water utility extension

24:28agreements these projects need. After

24:30that, I'm asking you to work with Durham

24:32communities and experts to write

24:34long-term policy protections without

24:36loopholes so we're kept safe from the

24:39harms of local AI and data centers. Hall

24:41River Assembly is more than willing to

24:44help with that work. Thank you.

24:47>> Thank you.

24:50[applause]

24:54Thank you.

24:56Um, I have many folks signed up for

24:58public comment. Who are the I don't know

25:02if folks want to be in a certain order,

25:03so I'm just going to call you up. If

25:05you're on a certain theme and you want

25:06to be in a certain order, then you're

25:07going to have to kind of organize

25:09yourselves. Um, the first person I have,

25:12um, I'm going to call the first five

25:13names. You don't have to come up, but

25:15just know the order. Um, I have Miss

25:18Jacqueline Wagstaff, Chris Pearlstein,

25:20Leslie Sandre, Emily Wilks, and James

25:23Kenny. Those are the first five folks

25:24I've got signed up in person here.

25:29>> Good afternoon.

25:30>> Good afternoon.

25:31>> Um,

25:32>> and I'm sorry, Miss Wagstaff. Everyone

25:33will have three minutes, so I just don't

25:34have to repeat that every time. Um, all

25:37speakers will have three minutes this

25:38afternoon. Thank you. Good afternoon.

25:40>> Um, I I the clerk, did you give them my

25:44information? Okay. So, let me start off

25:47by saying that for someone that's been

25:50in this community since 1981 advocating

25:53for the least of our people, and I'm a

25:56strong advocate because I see people in

25:57here that that came under our

25:59mentorship. I just want to say thank you

26:02both for your part in helping out

26:05Precinct 42, Fable Street Corridor. And

26:08also I'm going to give a thanks to our

26:11new police chief because actually what

26:14she said she would do she did it and

26:17that's what I like to see. Now let me

26:20get down to my issues. My issue is I

26:22have now raised this issue about Fable

26:26Street at least three times at your work

26:30session

26:32because the pattern is important and

26:34it's been ignored. There's been a

26:36growing unsanctioned See, I'm going over

26:38some stuff now that I don't have to go

26:40over, but I wrote this before this was

26:43taken care of. So, I'm going to just

26:44read it out. Uh, there is a growing

26:47unsanctioned homeless encampment on

26:50city- owned property land on P Street

26:52and Fable Street, less than 50 ft from

26:56an elementary school. And the city has

26:59still not responded with the urgency

27:02this situation demanded. Meanwhile, when

27:05a similar concern came from a Oakwood

27:07Park resident, the city quickly found

27:10$2.2 million in flexible housing funds.

27:16>> That kind of uneven response sends a

27:19message that this city has a two-party

27:23system and that system is the halves and

27:26have nots. And what I'm proposing today

27:29is that

27:30this council gets together with your

27:34attorney and draft an ordinance, not a

27:37resolution. A resolution is just the

27:40papers written on it ceremonial. I would

27:42like to see an ordinance that can be

27:45adopted by this board that would address

27:48these encampments in a fair and

27:50equitable manner. Um, this is a bigger

27:54it's bigger than one block. It is about

27:57whether Durham will treat residents

27:59fairly no matter what their zip code is,

28:01income level or political influence, or

28:04whether unhoused people will be met with

28:06real solutions instead of inconsistent

28:08crisis management. I'm calling on the

28:11Durham City Council to adopt an

28:13ordinance that enforces equal citywide

28:16standards for responding to unsanctioned

28:19encampments in our city, whether it be

28:22on public land or whether it be on

28:24private land. If Durham can move quickly

28:27in one part of the city, it must move

28:30quickly in every part of the city. That

28:32means clean, clear responses and

28:36expectations. Transparency is key. We

28:40want to make sure just like I said, I've

28:42heard

28:44Well, you got my you got my um you can

28:47finish reading it, but I stand in

28:49support of fair and equitable camp.

28:53>> Thank you.

28:55>> [applause]

28:57>> Um Chris Prolistine.

29:00>> Good afternoon.

29:01>> Good afternoon, city council members. Um

29:03I just kind of want to briefly talk

29:05about what happened at the last city

29:06council meeting. U got a little bit of

29:07bone pick. Uh the we didn't follow the

29:10rules uh for hearings and we did this

29:13setup that allows the opposition to go

29:15way overtime. And what I want to do is

29:17just address kind of why I think that's

29:19a problem and give you all something to

29:21chew on to think about that. I actually

29:22think that case could have been a

29:24wonderful 70-0 unanimous case if all of

29:27the time uh given to the opposition

29:29could have been even partly given to the

29:31folks that were in support of it. There

29:33was a lot of benefits there and I think

29:35we're we're all worse off for it. I

29:37actually am reminded of what u one of my

29:39neighbors Pablo Freriedman said u which

29:41is that we speak in progressive sonnet

29:42sometimes but we govern uh

29:44conservatively and I don't think that's

29:45on purpose. I think that's just bad

29:47habits and muscle memory um from years

29:49of how we do this. And so, you know, I

29:52didn't talk about greenway projects

29:54nearby, which are on the city's plan. I

29:56didn't get to go into detail about how

29:58the resoning case was actually going to

30:00result in better flood mitigations than

30:02would happen by right, uh, as it was

30:04beforehand. Um, I didn't get to talk

30:07about how, you know, on the meeting that

30:09we're having, uh, proclamation for

30:10disability awareness month, there was

30:12going to be 15% of these units were

30:14going to be disability accessible. Um,

30:16which is kind of an interesting uh,

30:18profer that I hadn't seen before. Uh and

30:20so I think a lot of y'all would have

30:21come around and we would have had uh

30:23more unanimous uh support. I think even

30:27some of the folks that were in

30:28opposition might have changed their mind

30:29if they heard all the details and had

30:31that opportunity. Uh so you know my

30:34proposal for for you um especially the

30:38mayor when he hopefully gets a chance to

30:40hear this is to think about how we're

30:42applying these rules and for whose

30:43benefit is it to conserve an existing

30:45system that disadvantages

30:48uh the folks who aren't already baked in

30:50and have homes, have land, are already

30:52established, right? or are we tr truly

30:56trying to get to a a democratic uh and

30:58and representative uh way of moving

31:02forward? And so I think what we can do

31:03is and I totally understand why the

31:05mayor does what he does, right? There's

31:06a lot of folks that will come out in

31:07opposition. He doesn't want to look like

31:08he's silencing them. So he says, "Okay,

31:10we're going to do three minutes even if

31:11they go way over." Right? My proposal

31:14for you is that in these situations,

31:16let's at least follow the spirit of

31:17those rules and allow folks to request

31:19extra time when one side or the other

31:21goes way over. Right? even if it's not

31:23the full 15 minutes that are allotted

31:25under the rules, two minutes more, three

31:28minutes more may make a big difference

31:29when somebody comes prepared to really

31:31truly argue for this. So that's my

31:33proposal number one to to to consider

31:34for moving forward. Um proposal number

31:37two is that when somebody does make a

31:38genuine request in that situation, uh

31:41that their time can be reset because I

31:43lost roughly a minute 45 seconds talking

31:45about that and that was time that I

31:46couldn't talk about the details uh that

31:48I had. So I there's a lot of upcoming

31:51cases that I think are very interesting

31:52and I think the full detailed account is

31:55important for you all to receive. Thank

31:56you for your time.

31:58>> Thank you.

32:00>> Um good afternoon.

32:02>> Hi.

32:07>> Hello. I'm Leslie St. Dre and I'm here

32:10today with uh Community Land and Power

32:12and the Stop Data Centers in Durham

32:15Coalition to speak on two points. So,

32:18first I will uh add to Emily Sutton's

32:21comment in that we are calling on y'all

32:24to use your power to stop new Durham

32:26County data centers. Um there is one

32:31coming up supposedly called Project

32:33Lloyd. There is questions about that uh

32:36which I've talked to uh our director of

32:39planning about. Um it seems it might be

32:41a an expansion instead of a whole new

32:44project. It's 72,000 square ft

32:47expansion. 72,000 square ft is enough to

32:50run 72 megawws worth of energy to run

32:54that data center. 72 megawws is enough

32:57for like 60,000 to 72,000 homes worth of

33:01energy. Um, and we know that data

33:04centers use PFAS. We're already forcing

33:06residents to pay for the 15 million$16

33:09million facility to address the PFA

33:11problem in our water already. Um, and so

33:14we're asking you to use your power to

33:16deny water connections to any new Durham

33:19County data center. Um, and we're asking

33:22planning for anyone coming in, any one

33:24of them coming in under light industrial

33:26use. Data centers should not be

33:28considered light industrial use. Um,

33:30anything use at Home Depot, for example,

33:33uh, uses 0.5 megawatts of energy. So

33:37these data centers using 50 72 uh that

33:41the loophole that the county passed all

33:43excluding uh commissioner alum allows

33:46for 100 megawws 100,000 square feet is

33:49enough to run a 100 megawatt hyperscale

33:52data center. So they have a fake

33:53moratorium in the county um and that's

33:56really severe. So we need the city to uh

33:59work with us on permanent protections

34:00and do what you can in the meantime to

34:02stop the ones that will be applying

34:05today. The next issue I want to talk to

34:07you about is stopping the sweeps. Sweeps

34:10drive people further into homelessness.

34:13We need to be addressing homelessness

34:15like the emergency crisis that it is by

34:19providing housing and solutions that

34:20people will accept. Uh stealing their

34:23belongings, trashing their belongings

34:25pushes people further into poverty. This

34:27is their IDs. This is any any family

34:30heirloom, any most beloved item uh that

34:33they have uh is is theirs to keep under

34:36the Fourth Amendment rights of illegal

34:37search and seizures. So, we need to make

34:40sure they're able to keep their things.

34:42Um so, I ask you to please have a heart

34:47and our neighbors, our homeless

34:50neighbors should be the ones that are

34:51coming up with the solutions of how to

34:53house them and how to keep them safe.

34:55So, they should be at the forefront of

34:57any conversation around that. Uh, so I

35:00want to thank every member of the NC

35:03Homeless Union for being here uh today

35:06and for the time they're going to put in

35:07trying to make sure that y'all know

35:09their lives matter.

35:10>> Thank you. [applause]

35:17>> Good afternoon.

35:19>> Good afternoon, members of city council.

35:21My name is Emily Wilks and I'm the

35:22associate pastor for public witness at

35:24Trinity Avenue Presbyterian Church. And

35:27I'm here also because of my concern

35:29around recent sweeps. And I thank

35:32Council Member Baker for putting people

35:34experiencing homelessness in the front

35:36in front of these conversations for

35:38soliciting community voices to draft a

35:40resolution regarding Durham's

35:42encampments. I believe if the city is to

35:44live into its values and commitment to

35:46making homelessness brief and rare, then

35:50a resolution like this is necessary. We

35:53need to create more systems of

35:54accountability for how the city engages

35:56with unhoused residents, which is the

35:59beginning of infusing some dignity into

36:00a situation that residents shouldn't

36:03have had to be in in the first place.

36:05I'm also speaking on behalf of Durham

36:07Congregations in action who upon

36:09speaking with unhoused neighbors on

36:11multiple occasions along with Hart and

36:13witnessing three encampment removals

36:16while intervening in one to provide

36:18services that should have already been

36:20available. We strongly encourage the

36:22city council to review this proposed

36:24resolution from council member Baker.

36:26This would theoretically address

36:27concerns that DCIA's 60 plus

36:30congregations have over short and

36:32long-term care for our neighbors and

36:34would be more humane than current

36:36implementation of the city and county's

36:38removal processes. A resolution should

36:40be in line with best practices that

36:42center the people involved and with the

36:45NASW code of ethics. There are ways to

36:47protect and help our neighbors while

36:49protecting the safety of everyone and

36:51our unhoused neighbors resources and

36:53dignity. And as the season is beginning

36:55to cool, we feel that the time to act is

36:58now. Thank you.

37:01>> Thank you.

37:03[applause]

37:04Mr. Kenny, before you speak, I'm going

37:06to go ahead and call up the next folks.

37:07I have Barbara Lions, Amanda Wallace,

37:10Caitlyn Carpenter, Victoria Peterson,

37:13Raina Rousenco. Those are the next five

37:16folks.

37:17>> Thank you, Mr. Kenny. Go ahead. Good

37:18afternoon.

37:19>> Good afternoon. My name is Jim Kenny, a

37:22resident of North Durham, and I'm here

37:25today as a member of Trinity Avenue

37:27Presbyterian Church to support the

37:29resolution that Emily Wilks just

37:31described to you regarding the

37:33dissolution of homeless encampments.

37:37I have supported efforts to end

37:39homelessness in Durham for several years

37:40and have served as a board member both

37:43of Families Moving Forward and StepUp

37:45Durham, two agencies of vital importance

37:48in addressing the homelessness crisis.

37:52Earlier this year, the council heard a

37:54presentation by Director of Community

37:57Safety Ryan Smith describing the new

38:01strategic plan to end homelessness. You

38:05learned that encampments were one of the

38:07issues addressed by the plan and the

38:11project hope teams are already actively

38:15engaged in the process of eliminating

38:17encampments.

38:19While there is some urgency in rooting

38:21out criminal elements present in

38:23encampments, forcefully closing them

38:26down and sweeping them clean is not a

38:29viable solution. Today you are being

38:33asked to consider a resolution that will

38:36endorse the process being employed by

38:39project hope that will result in a more

38:42effective and lasting solution to this

38:45issue. I urge you to support the

38:47resolution to end encampments in a

38:50humane positive way that is in keeping

38:54with it with the strategic plan you

38:57endorsed earlier this year. Thank you.

39:04Thank you, Barbara Lions.

39:08>> First and foremost, before I start, I'd

39:10like to ask for some extra time because

39:13I've been sick in and out of the

39:14hospital most of September. So, I

39:17brought my discharge papers with me and

39:19I have a couple of things I need to say.

39:22I'm going try to get them out as fast as

39:23I can.

39:26First and

39:27>> I'm sorry, we need to add another

39:28minute. There's Okay, we're we're doing

39:31three minutes. I'm sorry, ma'am. We have

39:32a lot of speakers today.

39:33>> That's cool. I'm gonna say what I need

39:34to say, though. I only speak once a

39:36year. I came to speak to the mayor, but

39:37he's not present, so hopefully he'll get

39:39a drift of this. Capitalism and money do

39:42not care.

39:44You can only ignore the cries and the

39:46suffering of the oppressed for so long

39:48before the system breaks. Understand

39:50that. And I will say this about myself.

39:54You can only erase the forest. You can't

39:56erase the forest by cutting down the

39:58trees. I'm a lions. I'm the living

40:00breathing fruit of a heavy legacy. I got

40:03three bullet points to just run over

40:05right quick. DHA is not working. It's

40:10failing. I've been a DHA for 31 years by

40:13choice. I could have moved out and paid

40:15all this rent, but I've been talking

40:17about this lighting. They came and cut

40:19down all the bushes in Cornwallis. They

40:21wanted to look deserted, dead, and

40:24depressed like McDougall. Anything that

40:25don't work or not renting or whatever,

40:27they've been not renting, they bought it

40:29up. I stayed in 125C. Now, last year or

40:33whenever it was when they came out with

40:35this 1.2 billion that nobody paid their

40:38rent on, I came down here and spoke to

40:39that man. That man allotted 1.2 million

40:42to pay that debt. Now, we're supposed to

40:44pay 30%. What are they doing with that

40:4670%. Why is nobody giving them an audit

40:50or holding them accountable for anything

40:52this year? I promise you when they have

40:54their audit or say they need some money,

40:56they're going to say Corn Wallace owed

40:57them about $50 million and that's not

40:59fair. But I went down there after I got

41:01out the hospital the first time and said

41:03there's no lights. I called Duke Power

41:06now anywhere they have a light if it's

41:08broken. Even when you own land and you

41:11having to put a light out there, you pay

41:1220 or 30 or whatever they charging this

41:14month. When you call them and tell them

41:15fix a light,

41:18when you call them and tell them fix the

41:20light, they're supposed to come out and

41:21repair that light. I called them, they

41:22said, "No, no,

41:24they do that in McDougall now because

41:26McDougall about to be closed down or to

41:28down or whatever. Y'all know what's

41:29going on." HUD or DHA won't show up

41:31nowhere for a meeting to talk about

41:32what's going on. They continue to do

41:34what they do. It's my second time coming

41:36down here speaking on this. I was going

41:37to ask the mayor to help me this time

41:40because when he paid that 1.2 million,

41:42DHA say, "Not your little black ass.

41:45Excuse my French." They left me out.

41:47They still harass me. Every time they

41:49send a letter to my door, I ask them

41:51nicely cuz I used to work for DHA. I got

41:54all my proof here. That book bag got

41:55everything in there from 90 something to

41:57now. I keep all my receipts. That's why

41:59they won't mess with me. Let me show you

42:01the letter

42:03and I'll show you. I'll show you the um

42:07where is it? I'll show you the rent

42:09receipt today. Now, when I went down

42:10there, they made me fill out a

42:11reasonable accommodation. When such when

42:14do you have to have I'm disabled and I'm

42:1755 or better. So that considers me a

42:18senior. When do you have to ask for

42:21reasonable accommodation when there's no

42:22lights? They cut down all the bushes,

42:25which was the only defense we have. My

42:27neighbor, I ain't going to mention her

42:28name, but all that lady does, she's old.

42:31She was there before I got there, is get

42:32picked up by the ambulance. And when

42:34they show up, they got to shine a police

42:35light. The third time they came pick me

42:37up to go to the hospital. I had to crawl

42:39to the door and say, "I'm right here."

42:40The lady on the end, I don't care about

42:42that. The lady on the end, she's a cat

42:44lady. She come out, feed the cats, take

42:45a trash. We all scared. It's dark. I had

42:48to go down there. You know what they

42:49made me do?

42:50>> Straight out the hospital. Look at this.

42:52I had to fill it out front.

42:53>> Thank you.

42:54>> And back. No, wait a minute. I'm sorry.

42:56Call the police. I'm mentally ill. Call

42:58hard. Tell them to drag me out of here.

42:59I'm not finished. I got three more

43:01things to say real quick. Okay.

43:02>> I had to fill it out. They sent me the

43:04paper the next day and then the manager

43:05came up there tried to inspect my

43:06apartment. Tell me about it was dirty.

43:07Why you coming up here waking me up

43:09first thing in the morning? You know you

43:10can cause me a seizure, which is on

43:11record. Okay. That and then y'all got

43:13these homeless people out here. I'm

43:14almost homeless. Y'all don't care

43:16nothing about me. That's not fair. I

43:18came to ask the mayor today to help me

43:20with my situation with DHA and all this

43:23other messages going on.

43:24>> Thank you. Thank you so much.

43:25>> Y'all going to keep ignoring poor people

43:26and what's going on and capitalism,

43:29capitalism and it richness and y'all

43:31sitting here judging and doing stuff to

43:35appreciate. We're good.

43:36>> Call hard.

43:37>> Ma'am,

43:38>> y'all gonna end up paying now. My blood

43:40pressure is please because I need to

43:42come check my blood pressure, but I'm

43:44probably about to pass out. But I don't

43:46want to have to come down here every

43:47year, once a year begging for help. DHA

43:49is wrong in what they're doing. And I'm

43:51just saying this on record. On record so

43:54I know cuz they gonna come and try to

43:56put me out after they get through

43:57sticking these notes in my door. I'm

43:59tired of it.

44:00>> Thank you, ma'am.

44:03[applause]

44:08[cheering]

44:12>> Emanuel.

44:15I got to go back home and pass out and

44:17almost die.

44:19>> Can we please get her contact

44:20information and have staff follow up?

44:22Thank you.

44:23>> I asked to be a part of this crime crime

44:26prevention. I'm right there with that

44:27boy got shot and that man never called

44:29me back.

44:30>> I called and asked to be a part of that

44:32initiative.

44:33>> Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate you. But

44:35we do have other speakers. Thank you.

44:38>> And I live right there. I heard the

44:40shots. That boy ran past my door. Nobody

44:42let me be a part of it. I'm up in my

44:44apartment dying. Look, I broke my face

44:48on their wall, but they want to put me

44:50out.

44:52You want to call the police, PUT ME OUT?

44:54CALL HARD cuz I'm mentally ill because

44:55of them. And you cannot chase me. It's

44:57against the law. Cuz I had seizure.

45:02I don't give a damn what I look like

45:03right now.

45:04>> Thank you.

45:05>> To fight. This all I got. my voice.

45:09[applause]

45:10Y'all wrong. The news won't even come

45:12see me. I want the news to show up and

45:14talk to me and I won't have to come down

45:16here. THESE MY MENTORS, JACKIE W, VICKY

45:20PETERSON, I'm sorry I show my ass, but

45:23this all I'm going back home and I won't

45:25be back next year.

45:26>> Thank you.

45:30Um,

45:36please.

45:42>> Thank you. You have three minutes and I

45:44will be firm with the rest of the time.

45:46We do have a long agenda today. Thank

45:48you.

45:51>> Go ahead. Okay. So, my name is Amanda

45:54Wallace and I hate being here coming up

45:56here and talking to y'all. I say that

45:58every time. Um, but like Miss Barbara

46:00just said, our voice is one of our most

46:02lethal weapons. And so that's why I'm

46:04here. And I want to use my time to speak

46:07about the force removal of people from

46:10um who had built a community at 495 East

46:13Pilot Street. And before we even get to

46:17the force removal, we have to think

46:19about like how we got here. And the the

46:22last time I was here, it was because

46:23there was this narrative that was

46:25building that painted the people there

46:27as criminals. And you might ask, well,

46:30why does that have to happen? And it's

46:31because of what happened at Oakwood

46:33Park, right? The city, like y'all put

46:36these facts out like y'all only did two

46:38sweeps and and two removals, but in

46:40reality, y'all are out here kicking

46:42people out of places that are building

46:44community almost every day. And so what

46:47you had to do was again paint people as

46:50criminals. And unfortunately it's people

46:53that I respect that was also helping

46:54with this narrative. But the reality is

46:57unfortunately capitalism and colonialism

47:00has this way of making us point fingers

47:02at each other instead of the system

47:04that's responsible. And so here we are.

47:07And so you had to justify the level of

47:10police force that it took. You had to

47:12justify the taxpayer dollars that went

47:15for trucks to be sitting for an hour

47:17waiting for Operation Safe Passage to

47:19run up in their golf carts to to remove

47:21tents.

47:23And so, but again, the questions that we

47:26really need to be asking, right? We

47:28can't talk about drug use without

47:30talking about how drugs got into the

47:32community in the first place. And not

47:35about 2026, how drugs got in there, but

47:37a historical understanding of how drugs

47:40got into the community. And then also

47:42when we talk about drugs, are we just

47:44talking about people who use drugs

47:45outside that are criminals or are people

47:47who use drugs inside their house also

47:49criminals? Because if so, some people on

47:51the das might be criminals too. So what

47:53are we really talking about? And then we

47:56we this other issue that keeps coming up

47:59is this issue about the school and that

48:01we got to protect the children that are

48:03right up the street. But but are we

48:06really asking the right questions?

48:08Because these children will also become

48:10adults. Even the people that you

48:12forcefully remove, they were once

48:14children. And so, are we fighting for

48:16the conditions that these children when

48:18they grow up, they won't also be

48:20unhoused?

48:21Are we fighting? Because right now, a

48:23one-bedroom studio apartment 12, 13, 14,

48:26$1,500. What will those children pay?

48:30And so we're sitting here talking about

48:31we care about the children, but what are

48:34we doing to ensure that they will have

48:36different conditions?

48:38And so in conclusion,

48:41we the question that always comes up is

48:43what's the solution? What's the

48:45solution? I just want to be clear that I

48:47don't believe none of y'all can come up

48:49with the solution because you represent

48:50the institution that creates the

48:52conditions that people are living in.

48:54You create band-aids.

48:56>> The people have the solution. Y'all just

48:59need to give up the money.

49:01>> Thank you,

49:06[applause]

49:08>> Caitlyn Carpenter.

49:12>> Good afternoon.

49:13>> Good afternoon. Um, I'm here as a city

49:15resident and a member of Triangle DSA.

49:17And the sentiments I'm going to share

49:19are those um, also echoed by members of

49:22the Stop Data Centers in Durham

49:24Coalition. And also before I start, I

49:26just want to emphasize support for all

49:27that was just said before me and uh for

49:29the folks here from the National Union

49:31of the Homeless. So I'm here today to

49:34urge you um like those before me to deny

49:36water utility extension agreements to

49:38any Durham County data centers um and

49:40any expansions now and into the future

49:42forever more. Residents deserve

49:44transparency and a say when regarding

49:46the usage of our shared water resources,

49:49who has access to them, and what that

49:51access makes possible. If you approve

49:54water connections for new data centers

49:56or expansion, you condone development

49:57that will harm our water quality, raise

49:59our water and electricity bills, and

50:01ultimately prioritize Duke Energy and

50:03large tech corporations over your

50:05constituents. Durham residents were

50:07forced to pay a 12% water utility

50:10increase this year. Some of that

50:11increase is driven by the need to bring

50:13Tier Corey online as an emergency water

50:15source due to ongoing drought

50:17conditions. These data centers and their

50:19expansions use a lot of water. That is

50:20not a surprise. Even closed loop systems

50:23like those required in the mortorium in

50:25the name of conserving potable water

50:27often require significantly more power

50:29generation which severely implicates

50:31water usage. So when the drought worsens

50:33from new data center expansion and

50:35expansion of the electric electricity

50:37generation facilities required to power

50:38them, so will our bills. As others have

50:42mentioned, the recent water rate

50:43increase was also partially driven by

50:45the need to upgrade our systems to

50:46filter out carcinogenic PAS forever

50:48chemicals. Data centers also use these

50:50chemicals. Additionally, this closed

50:53loop cooling systems require regular

50:55flushing uh using even more dangerous

50:57chemicals which should not be in our

50:59water supply and which we will pay to

51:01remove. By providing water to the new

51:03centers and expansions, the city would

51:05further intensify a problem that Durham

51:07residents will pay for in our bills and

51:09in our bodies. And I haven't even gotten

51:11to talking about electricity bill demand

51:13impacts. Demands for electricity to feed

51:16new data centers drive Duke Energy and

51:18Embridge fossil fuel plant development.

51:20And while Duke Energy took in over1

51:22billion dollars of profits last quarter,

51:24profits that come from capital

51:25expenditures like the infrastructure

51:27buildout required when these expansions

51:28happen, we will forever pay for

51:31electricity rate increases.

51:34And finally, may I remind you that you

51:36emphasize climate commitments in both

51:37your strategic plan and your

51:38comprehensive plan. And how would

51:40supporting any amount of data center

51:43expansion fall in line with those

51:45principles? If you approve new water

51:47permits now or at any point in the

51:49future, you serve Duke Energy large tech

51:51corporations and their CEOs and

51:53shareholders rather than folks in

51:55Durham. You put our land, resources, and

51:57pocketbooks on the line. I urge you to

52:00use your position as city council to

52:01deny new water permits to these

52:03facilities and to work with folks in

52:05Durham and experts to draft long-term

52:07policy protections that do not have

52:09loopholes. Thank you.

52:10>> Thank you.

52:13[applause]

52:17>> Victoria Peter Peterson is who I have

52:19next. And then I have Raina Reenco,

52:21Abigail Johnson and Abby Johnson.

52:24And actually Abigail Johnson and Abby

52:25Johnson are the same. It's okay. Okay, I

52:27just realized that with the phone

52:28numbers. Um, are are you speaking today,

52:32Miss Johnson? Okay, so I have Victoria

52:34Peterson, then Raina Rousenko, and then

52:35Abigail Johnson.

52:41>> Yes, I'm Mrs. Peterson, and I'm very

52:43concerned about um what I've heard

52:48today.

52:49And some of it has just been downright

52:52dishonest.

52:53Some of us was involved with the pilot

52:56in Fedville Street street street issue.

53:00I'm a person of color and I can speak

53:03for thousands and thousands of

53:06African-Americans that live in this

53:07city. We are tired of the crap. We're

53:12tired of these tents all over the place

53:16talking about we have to find places for

53:18homeless people.

53:20Okay.

53:23But you're going to tell me that these

53:25camps can have drugs, prostitution,

53:29gangs. That area that we're speaking

53:32about across the street from the school,

53:36five deaths,

53:39three murders

53:43of overjo

53:50murders. Five deaths where children and

53:54kids can see. Some folks need to get

53:57their act together. We are tired of it

54:00in the African-American community. This

54:03is what I would like the city to do.

54:05Lincoln Apartments, that property over

54:09there by Meduka Terrace has been donated

54:12and given to public housing.

54:16That property has been sitting there

54:18somewhere between 10 to 15 years vacant

54:24and y'all need to go over there. You

54:26should see the trash. The trash. I have

54:29pictures of it. Let's put some folks

54:33together. I have the I have one of the

54:36proposals that they have here for public

54:38housing. They're saying it's 150ome

54:42units

54:44that's been sitting vacant.

54:47somewhere between 10 to 15 years in this

54:51city. And we're talking about allowing

54:54people to live in tents and we have

54:58property and land that all we need to do

55:01is fix it up and allow people to become

55:06so they won't be homeless. Come on.

55:09There is something terribly, terribly

55:11going on in this community. This is not

55:14a poor city. The city and the county and

55:18the state.

55:20We heard that the city manager, and I

55:23thank the city manager and the and the

55:25um and the attorney's office as well as

55:29the police department for helping us.

55:32But we're not going to stop dealing with

55:34the pilot and Favville Street. We've got

55:38to clean up this problem in this

55:40community. And I want this I want the

55:42citizens that are listening. This city

55:45has plenty of monies and we're going to

55:47clean up this

55:48>> this issue that's going on talking about

55:51homelessness.

55:52>> Thank you.

55:53>> And thank you

55:55plenty of land, plenty of property and

55:58plenty of money.

55:59>> The next speaker I have is

56:01>> not

56:05>> Hi, good afternoon. My name is Raina

56:07Rousenko. I'm a sociologist of

56:09homelessness and public policy. I'm here

56:12to speak about Operation Safe Passage

56:14launched by the Durham Police Department

56:16last week. There has been a harmful

56:18deliberate conflation of encampments

56:21with criminal activity in media reports

56:23and the police chief's own statements.

56:25The naming safe passage itself suggests

56:27to the public that the encampment

56:29threatened passers by. I want to call

56:32attention to what this operation was. It

56:34was a reprehensible targeting and

56:36vilification of the most vulnerable

56:38people in our city and also cruy

56:40orchestrated to dehumanize its victims

56:43and be celebrated as if it were a

56:45victory. These actions do not bring

56:47safety. Durham spent an embarrassing

56:50amount of money sending in cranes and

56:52trucks to tear down and cart away what

56:54people with close to nothing had carried

56:56in and tended to with their own hands.

56:59enacting violence on people with the

57:00least and making a spectacle of their

57:02persecution does not quote improve

57:05safety and support well-being end quote

57:07as the police chief claimed. The

57:10materials that police cited as evidence

57:12of criminal activity are nothing

57:13compared to what they could find if they

57:15were to crack down on your average

57:17drugdeing college student or white

57:19collar criminal. Nonetheless, the city

57:22has used this vague assertion of

57:24criminal activity as a basis for

57:25violently clearing an encampment. That

57:28is, after DPD arrested suspects for said

57:32activity, the city went and expelled

57:34other people not charged with a crime,

57:36destroying their property. This looks

57:39like collective punishment and sets a

57:41dangerous precedent. Unhoused people are

57:44disproportionately black, indigenous,

57:46and persons of color. They are

57:48disproportionately LGBTQ and

57:50disproportionately disabled. They are

57:53extremely marginalized and more likely

57:55to be victims of a crime than

57:56perpetrators. They are also regularly

57:58criminalized, which the city of Durham

58:00is fueling by casting aspersions to

58:03criminal activity so that it can exploit

58:05public prejudice to grant it a free

58:07license to violently throw people out.

58:10Clearances should not be tolerated in

58:12Durham. It is not okay to violently

58:14remove people whether or not they were

58:16offered a shelter bed, a weight list, or

58:18an apartment. Studies show that

58:20homelessness resolves itself when people

58:22have resources and better options. In

58:25all of our lifetimes, homelessness has

58:27gotten worse, and that's all the more

58:29reason we can make it better in our

58:31lifetimes. When people have the economic

58:34and social security they need, we won't

58:36be seeing encampments. So, we must be

58:38providing that security upfront, not

58:40only to people in tents, but also people

58:42sleeping on benches, in cars, and in

58:45friends homes. Operation Safe Passage

58:48and the rhetoric it encourages

58:50conflating encampments with criminality

58:53makes public scapegoats of unhoused

58:55folks and leads us collectively down a

58:58very dangerous path. We need to stop

59:00punching down and instead actually

59:02invest in people to ensure we all have

59:05safe housing, living wages, medical

59:07care, and more.

59:08>> Thank you,

59:10[applause]

59:16>> Abigail Johnson.

59:20Hi, my name is Abigail or Abby Johnson

59:23and I feel like I'm growing into public

59:25speaking, so I'd appreciate any grace. I

59:27pull up my laptop here. I'm also with

59:29the stop data centers coalition. Um

59:32generally though I'm yeah I guess just

59:34like a young person in this in this

59:35community who like yeah everything

59:38that's been said has been really

59:39powerful and something um I think about

59:42a lot um was this like quote from yeah

59:46like I I just graduated from Duke and I

59:48was studying political science which was

59:49so yeah that was a lot of

59:51disillusionment there but I think of

59:53this quote of like we don't need more

59:54good we need less evil and I feel like

59:57to me like why someone would want to

1:00:02work in public policy is because there's

1:00:04some type of like noble calling. Like we

1:00:07feel like we can make an impact. But I

1:00:10feel like a lot of what I was taught and

1:00:12like a lot of, you know, white

1:00:14supremacy, colonialism, neoliberal

1:00:16politics, like forces us to think that

1:00:18if we just protect ourselves and keep

1:00:21hoarding things that we can come up with

1:00:23better solutions than what all of these

1:00:25people who have been working here for so

1:00:27hard, for so long, have like always

1:00:29tried to share with you. So I feel like,

1:00:31you know, we're living in a crazy time

1:00:32where we're living in these old systems

1:00:34and building new ones. But I just want

1:00:36to emphasize that like centering, you

1:00:38know, the community and like all these

1:00:40grassroots organizers who are not paid

1:00:41to do this labor, nonprofit people who

1:00:43are not being paid enough to do any of

1:00:45this, like these people have the

1:00:46solutions, not bad faith corporate

1:00:48actors. But yeah, I'm here to talk about

1:00:49data centers. So the context, the

1:00:51loophole that was given to us was an

1:00:53absolute failure except for Nitto and

1:00:55also I really like Nate Baker just from

1:00:58just Yeah, I Yeah, we like you. At least

1:01:01that's how I feel as a young person. And

1:01:03this loophole was terrible. Well, the

1:01:05purpose of the moratorum is to actually

1:01:06pause development so we can do research.

1:01:09Um, but the loophole is still going to

1:01:11allow like new ones to be built. Uh, so

1:01:14our two demands, what we actually have

1:01:16power over since you all passed like a

1:01:18really terrible loophole is to one deny

1:01:21city water connections to any new Durham

1:01:23County data centers and two deny those

1:01:26applications that might be filed under

1:01:28industrial light land uses because they

1:01:31should not be considered like light

1:01:33industrial use if corporations are

1:01:36trying to frame it that way. That's like

1:01:37a gross abuse of the definition. Um, I

1:01:41don't have a lot more to be said that's

1:01:44hasn't been said already, but I would

1:01:46just emphasize like working with people

1:01:48in the community who've been doing this

1:01:50for the longest is always going to be

1:01:51better than like um capitulating and

1:01:54collaborating with corporations. So,

1:01:56thank you.

1:01:57>> Thank you,

1:02:01>> Madam Cler. Those are all the folks I

1:02:03have signed up to speak. Is that

1:02:04correct?

1:02:05>> Thank you.

1:02:07>> We signed up to speak on the agenda.

1:02:12I do not have you registered.

1:02:18>> Is it for um Ellie?

1:02:20>> Yes.

1:02:20>> Uh Ellie and Gary.

1:02:22>> Yes, that's right.

1:02:23>> Um so the city manager's office had

1:02:25emailed us and said that they had signed

1:02:27up after the agenda deadline. Okay.

1:02:29>> Um and that if it was basically up to to

1:02:32you if you

1:02:32>> How many folks are there here to speak?

1:02:34>> Just two of us.

1:02:36>> Okay. I'm going to allow it. We have And

1:02:39I'm I'm I'm going to lecture folks for

1:02:41just a second. Y'all are young. You

1:02:42don't know the process. We have some of

1:02:43the most flexible public speaking rules

1:02:47in the state of North Carolina. I know

1:02:49folks don't like our rules. They think

1:02:50they're draconian, etc., etc., but we

1:02:53actually did a very thorough analysis of

1:02:56across the state and we designed our

1:02:58rules based on that. So, I'm going to

1:03:01allow it today, but I'm going to say it.

1:03:03You have to sign up on time. The reason

1:03:05you have to sign up on time is because

1:03:06we run hybrid meetings. The reason we

1:03:09run hybrid meetings is to allow more

1:03:11folks to participate. When you put tech

1:03:14in there, it creates a huge burden for

1:03:16staff to maintain it. That is the grace

1:03:19that we're asking for folks to extend

1:03:22our staff.

1:03:23So, I'm going to say it again. Please

1:03:25follow the rules because it does

1:03:27actually allow for more. Since y'all are

1:03:30new, I'm going to allow it today.

1:03:37Good afternoon. Thank you. You have

1:03:39three minutes.

1:03:40>> My name is Ellie. I am a proud member of

1:03:43the National You of the Homeless here in

1:03:44Durham. Um, I just want to say that we

1:03:47are not props of anyone. Uh, we as a

1:03:51union will never endorse policy that

1:03:54sweeps encampments because that's

1:03:56violent. Poor and homeless people, we

1:03:58can think for ourselves, act for

1:04:00themselves. We can leave for ourselves,

1:04:01ourselves and the rest of this country.

1:04:03So, I just want to say that um

1:04:07yeah, I'm here to underscore that sweeps

1:04:09are violent. There is no safe

1:04:11alternative shelter right now for folks.

1:04:13The shelter is not safe. And my question

1:04:15for the council is, what are you doing

1:04:17about the 13,000 empty apartments in

1:04:20Durham right now that are growing every

1:04:22day? Why is Durham and this country the

1:04:25richest it's ever been in history? And

1:04:27we have 13,000 empty apartments. What

1:04:29are you doing? Why are we talking about

1:04:31sweeping encampments? Why is that what

1:04:33we're talking about?

1:04:36Like I'm not crazy, right? There's

1:04:38enough houses for everybody. The real

1:04:40crime's going on in the shelters. It's

1:04:42going on this level of of of vacant

1:04:45ownership of all these units. People

1:04:47aren't going to the shelter because um

1:04:51the folks in there uh you know are going

1:04:53through substance use recovery and don't

1:04:54want to be around people who are using

1:04:56drugs or they tell us that uh staff are

1:04:58having shelter with the women who are

1:05:00staying there. That's unacceptable.

1:05:02Unacceptable. The real crime is being

1:05:05painted as being regular people. People

1:05:08I've met who are nurses, who are

1:05:10security guards, who are your grocery

1:05:11clerk, people who are just trying to

1:05:13make it by every day. Like 90% of this

1:05:15country who has to wake up and make a

1:05:17living just to get by. It's the same

1:05:20people that are living outside right now

1:05:21in their cars in these encampments that

1:05:23people u are trying to paint as

1:05:25criminals, which is crazy.

1:05:35It makes me angry. And I know that our

1:05:37resources here are limited. Somebody

1:05:39pointed out to me recently that the

1:05:40money that we get from HUD is less than

1:05:43a tomahawk missile. The price of a

1:05:45tomahawk missile.

1:05:47Goes to show the priorities our country

1:05:49has for human rights. Um,

1:05:53but yeah, another thing about the

1:05:55shelter that we should make note of is

1:05:57that each shelter bed that they're

1:05:58paying for, you know, not including cost

1:06:00for counselors and job programs, costs

1:06:02three times the median rent in Durham.

1:06:06Each shelter bed costs three times the

1:06:08median rent in Durham.

1:06:13We can put people in our houses today.

1:06:16All right, I yield my time. Thank you.

1:06:18>> Thank you. [applause]

1:06:20And then for the folks who are just

1:06:21joining us, please make sure to um sign

1:06:23up with this with the clerk's office if

1:06:25you have not already. Go ahead. Thank

1:06:27you. Good afternoon. You have three

1:06:28minutes.

1:06:29>> Hey, I'm I'm Gary Bumgardner and I'm

1:06:31with the homeless union and I'm also a

1:06:34resident of Durham for 50 52 years. Um

1:06:40I've been here in Trinity Park. I grew

1:06:42up there. Went to school at Durham High.

1:06:45I I became homeless. Um, luckily

1:06:48somebody helped me out in the process. I

1:06:51pulled myself up with the help, got out

1:06:54and I'm still trying to help others. I

1:06:57don't think with Durham having all the

1:06:59money that they have, they gave a

1:07:02million plus dollars to Urban Ministries

1:07:04who opened a day shelter who only serves

1:07:0720 people a day with some phone

1:07:10chargers. What sense does that make?

1:07:14Um, if you really want to help the

1:07:16homeless, think about the homeless. Get

1:07:18the homeless involved.

1:07:20Hear their side. Hear what they have to

1:07:23say. What intrigues them? What makes

1:07:26them keep getting up every day and

1:07:28fighting a world that gives a damn about

1:07:30them that don't give a damn about them,

1:07:33but they still show up every single day.

1:07:36Um,

1:07:37I I hate to be angry, but I am angry.

1:07:41We've got plenty of property. Dharma's

1:07:43rich. We've got the police station

1:07:45that's been vacant for years. We've got

1:07:48Northgate Mall that's been vacant for

1:07:50years. We still have homeless

1:07:52encampments that y'all are worried about

1:07:54tearing us up and tearing us apart. Um

1:07:57figure out how to put us in some of

1:07:59these places you have and use us as

1:08:02members of working that that encampment.

1:08:06That would give us a responsibility.

1:08:09That would help us out. that would

1:08:11intrigue the people that hate us.

1:08:14That's all I got to say. Y'all will hear

1:08:17more from me.

1:08:17>> Thank you. [applause and cheering]

1:08:22>> Those are all the speakers I have uh

1:08:24signed up today. I'm going to move us on

1:08:26to the next part of our agenda.

1:08:30Uh under administrative consent items

1:08:33under the city clerk's office, I have

1:08:34item number two, Durham. Item number

1:08:37two, Durham Convention and Visitor

1:08:39Bureaus. Visitors Bureau Discover Durham

1:08:42appointment. Item number three, approval

1:08:44of city council minutes. Under

1:08:46departmental items under budget and

1:08:48management services department I have

1:08:49item number four request to carry over

1:08:52funding from fiscal year 2025 2026 to

1:08:55fiscal year 202627 to amend the fiscal

1:08:58year 2026 27 budget capital improvement

1:09:01plan CIP ordinance and the internal

1:09:03service funds spending plans

1:09:08under community safety department item

1:09:10number five US department of housing and

1:09:12urban development HUD 2025 continuum of

1:09:15care planning grant grant uh project

1:09:18ordinance. I have um a speaker on this.

1:09:21So that item is getting pulled. Under

1:09:23item number six, US Department of

1:09:25Housing and Urban Development HUD 2026

1:09:28Emergency Solutions Grant Grant Project

1:09:30ordinance. I have a speaker signed up

1:09:31for this item. So that item is getting

1:09:33pulled. under environmental and street

1:09:35services department. Item number seven,

1:09:36amendment number two to professional

1:09:38services contract SW-52D

1:09:41Lasal Street Pedestrian Improvements TIP

1:09:44uh number EB-5703

1:09:48under amendment number excuse me under

1:09:50item number eight amendment number four

1:09:51to professional services contract SW-45D

1:09:55Cornwallis road bike and pedestrians

1:09:57facil facilities project tip number

1:10:00U-4724

1:10:02under item number nine amendment number

1:10:05one Contract SD-202601

1:10:08Hunting Ridge and West Lavender

1:10:10stormwater infrastructure improvements

1:10:13under the general services department.

1:10:14Item number 10, environmental and

1:10:17geotechnical professional services

1:10:18design contract with A1 Consulting

1:10:20Group, Inc. for pre-regulatory landfill

1:10:23parks project.

1:10:24>> Pull this one, please.

1:10:25>> Uh, council members Cook and Baker have

1:10:27pul both pulled that. I'm assuming

1:10:28probably everybody wants to pull that

1:10:30one. Um, that's item number 10.

1:10:35>> [clears throat]

1:10:36>> Item number 11, construction services

1:10:38contract with Danielle Company LLC for

1:10:40the Durham City Hall reconfiguration

1:10:42project. That's a presentation, so we'll

1:10:44take that at the end. Um, under planning

1:10:48and development department,

1:10:50item number 12, agenda item, objection

1:10:52after assessment role, confirmation for

1:10:54curb, gutter, and paving on Amber Place

1:10:58under transportation under the

1:10:59transportation department. Item number

1:11:0013, first amendment to contract number

1:11:0221588,

1:11:04supplemental agreement number six to

1:11:06master agreement number 18908 with

1:11:08Kimley Horn and Associates, Inc. for the

1:11:10for design of multimmoal improvements

1:11:12and state maintained streets. Item

1:11:14number 14, supplemental agreement number

1:11:16four to governing agreement number 21549

1:11:19with KDston and Associates, Inc. for

1:11:21design of Duke Gregson corridor

1:11:23improvements. I do not want to pull it,

1:11:25but I'm glad to see it. underwater water

1:11:28management department.

1:11:30Number 15, construction award to

1:11:33Carolina Civil Works, Inc. for the Duke

1:11:34University Road North Driver Street

1:11:36waterline replacement.

1:11:38Under item number 16, professional

1:11:40services contract with CDM Smith, Inc.

1:11:42for the Brownwater Treatment Plant

1:11:44Filtrate and Lagoon decant discharge

1:11:47upgrades. Item number 17, amendment

1:11:50number one to contract number 21869 with

1:11:53McKim and Creed, Inc. for the South

1:11:54Durham Water Reclamation Facility

1:11:56Tertiary Filter Replacement and

1:11:59Miscellaneous Process Rehabilitation

1:12:00Items Project. That was a mouthful. And

1:12:04then uh to be taken up at our next uh

1:12:06Monday evening meeting under public

1:12:08hearings, I have um number item number

1:12:11under planning and development

1:12:12department item number 18, many

1:12:14assessment roles for curb, gutter, and

1:12:16paving and water and sewer sewer

1:12:18laterals on Chalmer's Street. Item

1:12:21number 19,

1:12:23confirmation of assessment roles for

1:12:25ribbon paving walder wall water main

1:12:27water and sewer laterals on Lang Street

1:12:30from Gleno Road east to east property

1:12:31line of REI 164518.

1:12:36Item number 20, landmark designation

1:12:38report, Cranford Wanaker House.

1:12:42Item number 21, consolidated

1:12:44consolidated annexation courtyards at

1:12:46Leville. That item has been referred

1:12:48back to staff per the applicant.

1:12:52Item number 22, consolidated annexation

1:12:54508 olive branch. And that is all I have

1:12:58uh for our agenda today.

1:13:00>> I didn't catch it, but can I also pull

1:13:02number two?

1:13:08>> Oh, the appointment.

1:13:09>> Yes.

1:13:10>> Okay.

1:13:13>> Okay. Okay. Uh, Manager Ferguson, I have

1:13:15items 2, 10, and five, and six. Those

1:13:18were pulled by the public. I'm sorry. Go

1:13:20ahead, Council Member Kobec.

1:13:21>> Just um, Mayor Pert just was going to

1:13:23ask when to add the agenda fine to have

1:13:25it at the end, the resolution.

1:13:27>> Yeah, we'll just take it under the very

1:13:28like we'll get through everything

1:13:29including the presentation and then

1:13:31we'll do it other I think other items or

1:13:33supplemental items.

1:13:34>> Yeah, other matters. Thank you.

1:13:38So, we'll settle the agenda and then

1:13:40take that up. And that's both for

1:13:42council member Copek's item and council

1:13:44member Baker's items. Um, Manager

1:13:47Ferguson, I have items number two and 10

1:13:50pulled by council and then items number

1:13:51five and six pulled by the public and

1:13:53then presentation number 11. Um, I'm

1:13:56going to go ahead and if folks are okay,

1:13:57go ahead and let go to items five and

1:13:59six and take the public comment and then

1:14:01come back to item two and then 10.

1:14:04Miss Peterson, you're up. Good

1:14:06afternoon. You've pulled items number

1:14:08five and six.

1:14:09>> Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Um and

1:14:12I'll

1:14:16and by the community talking about

1:14:19dollars and and monies for the homeless.

1:14:21This is a very good example now and and

1:14:24I would like some clarity here. Um and

1:14:27the city uh manager may be able to help.

1:14:30So it looks like this is a federal grant

1:14:32from HUD. Uh, I'm going to round it off

1:14:35to about $160ome,000

1:14:38and it looks like a $31,000

1:14:41that the city has to match. Uh, and

1:14:44basically same thing with number six.

1:14:48So, if the city is getting federal funds

1:14:52that you can use for housing,

1:14:54let's seriously try to set some of these

1:14:58dollars, a lot of these dollars aside to

1:15:02really fix up

1:15:04the Lincoln Apartments. It's no longer

1:15:06my understanding

1:15:08uh for those who represent me in my area

1:15:12that land has been given to public

1:15:14housing.

1:15:16That's what I've been told. If that is

1:15:19true, we're speaking aboutund

1:15:23I'm going to round it off to about about

1:15:25160ome apartments.

1:15:28We're speaking about nine acres of land

1:15:31that is sitting on the other side of

1:15:33Durham public housing sitting on the

1:15:35other side I'm sorry of a of muka

1:15:38terrace. That's a lot of property that

1:15:42can be turned and used for homeless

1:15:44folks and for and for the working poor.

1:15:49I really think and we need to start and

1:15:52I want to I'm I'm planning to get up

1:15:54with the city manager. Over the last

1:15:57three or four or five years, this city

1:15:59has been getting monies from the feds.

1:16:03Also, this city has been giving monies

1:16:06to help the homeless.

1:16:08There was a statement that was made

1:16:10earlier about $2 million to help a group

1:16:14of folks that that were living in tents.

1:16:17Okay. To me, it sounds like that we're

1:16:20just throwing money here, throwing money

1:16:21there. We need to bring a group of

1:16:24people and developers together to

1:16:28seriously work on this issue. So these

1:16:31dollars for number five and I can also

1:16:34madam chairwoman if you don't mind I I I

1:16:36would also like to speak on number six

1:16:38too at the same time.

1:16:39>> Go ahead.

1:16:40>> Those dollars. So So now number six

1:16:43we're speaking about $350,000.

1:16:46Okay. So my question to this city

1:16:50council, if we are really serious about

1:16:53addressing the homeless the homeless

1:16:57situation, I'm asking that you get a

1:17:00hold of Durham public housing and ask

1:17:04them to turn that property over really

1:17:08to a group of people who can get that

1:17:11property, the Lincoln Apartments that's

1:17:14now under the umbrella of the Durham

1:17:17public housing,

1:17:19ask them to give up that property and

1:17:23let we who want to bring folks together

1:17:26to develop that land for the homeless

1:17:29and for the working poor. We are

1:17:31speaking about about nine acres of land.

1:17:34That property has been sitting there

1:17:36somewhere between 10 to 15 years vacant.

1:17:42And matter of fact,

1:17:44the city council really needs to go over

1:17:47and take a drive through there and see

1:17:49all of the trash, the furniture. It has

1:17:53become a dumping ground. Not for the

1:17:55people who live there because ain't

1:17:57nobody living in there. But companies

1:17:59and businesses in the community, Madame

1:18:02Chairwoman, they're dumping trash and

1:18:06garbage. And matter of fact, I actually

1:18:07have pictures. So, I'm also asking the

1:18:11city attorney and you've you have some

1:18:13very good people working there in your

1:18:14office. I' I've been by. I'm glad you're

1:18:16back. I'm glad you're back. But we

1:18:18really need to look into this situation.

1:18:21If we really want to address the

1:18:23homeless, here's a good example. Nine

1:18:26acres of land just sitting there. We

1:18:30have I'm sorry. I'm I don't I don't mean

1:18:31to put folks out there on the ledge out

1:18:35here, but I want to say this. We have

1:18:36Duke Medical Center, Duke University,

1:18:39that does not pay a dime to this

1:18:42community. They don't pay any taxes.

1:18:44They have a community program now over

1:18:47in the uh uh um over in the North

1:18:50Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Building.

1:18:53We need to get up with them. Somebody

1:18:55needs to contact them because I'm going

1:18:57to tell you a little story that very few

1:19:00people know.

1:19:04There are people that go over to Duke

1:19:06emergency

1:19:08and stay there at night.

1:19:11I want to say that again.

1:19:13There are people in this community that

1:19:18go to Duke and stay there at night cuz

1:19:22they don't have a place to stay.

1:19:26Duke doesn't even know that's even

1:19:27probably going on. I do because I've

1:19:31spoken to an individual that that is one

1:19:34of the persons that do that.

1:19:37We can do better. We can bring people to

1:19:41the table. You folks are very very busy.

1:19:44But there are other persons like me,

1:19:47Miss Jackie, some of the other folks in

1:19:49this community who are willing to put

1:19:52our time in to fix this problem and fix

1:19:56it for good. that it it needs to stop

1:20:01raising its head when you have five

1:20:03people that have died in this community

1:20:06from drug overdose three and two have

1:20:10been murdered over there on that Pilot

1:20:12and Favville Street. We've got to do

1:20:14better.

1:20:15>> Thank you, Miss Peterson. That's all

1:20:16your time today. Thank you.

1:20:17>> Yes, ma'am. And we're going to do

1:20:19better.

1:20:20>> Thank you,

1:20:26>> Council Member Cook. Um, you pulled item

1:20:28number two.

1:20:31>> I did. Um, and and I've already spoken

1:20:34briefly, but I'm just curious about why

1:20:36we didn't have a um an attendance report

1:20:38with that item since it was someone who

1:20:40was getting reappointed and um if we're

1:20:43missing any other documents from um

1:20:46Discover Durham.

1:20:49>> Oh, I'm sorry. Before Ashley answers, I

1:20:51had texted you, but it was the incorrect

1:20:53information. So, I'm going to let Ashley

1:20:54explain.

1:20:54>> Great. Maybe then you can fill in the

1:20:56correct information for me. Thanks.

1:20:58>> Hello. Um so um Mr. Dub Pender was

1:21:02appointed to take over a resignation

1:21:06after the um attendance report was

1:21:08submitted in December. So he was

1:21:11appointed initially December 16th, 2025

1:21:15um as a resignation. So he's not on the

1:21:17attendance report as of last year.

1:21:21>> And so when we get the attendance

1:21:22reports, they are only from the prior

1:21:24year because I feel like usually they

1:21:25are coming up more recently. So I mean

1:21:27we're in October and I feel like we

1:21:30usually do see at least some attendance

1:21:32reports for the year that we're in or

1:21:34like not more than 10 months behind.

1:21:37>> So um when uh city council changed their

1:21:40uh procedures at the procedures

1:21:41committee when um we did attachment A

1:21:43for boards, we used to submit attendance

1:21:46reports on both an annual and a fiscal

1:21:48year basis. And in that um procedural

1:21:51change, we change it to only a calendar

1:21:53year basis now.

1:21:54>> Okay. Thank you.

1:21:56>> And that's how we pay out our statements

1:21:57as well.

1:21:58>> Okay. So everything that was requested

1:22:00of them, they have reported.

1:22:02>> Yes.

1:22:02>> Okay. Thanks so much. That's

1:22:05>> Thank you. Uh item number 10, uh Council

1:22:07Member Cook and Baker. But that I'm

1:22:10going to let Council Member go Baker

1:22:11first since you just um had the previous

1:22:14item.

1:22:15Good afternoon, Council Chris Lisa,

1:22:17general services. I've got a lot of

1:22:19people here to help support depending on

1:22:21where this goes.

1:22:22>> Awesome. Um, I'm just starting with some

1:22:25some general some general uh questions

1:22:28and comments because this is this is an

1:22:31item that um we've all been waiting for

1:22:33for a very long time. Um, and there's a

1:22:37lot of different moving pieces. There's

1:22:38a lot of information that has changed.

1:22:40there has been

1:22:43communication challenges between us and

1:22:44and DEEQ. So, um so first of all, I do

1:22:49want to say that I'm excited to see um

1:22:52this item. I hope I I think I'm excited

1:22:55to see this item. I'm excited to see us

1:22:57moving forward and being proactive

1:22:59before we have gotten all the test

1:23:01results because um because we know that

1:23:04we want to be able to hit the ground

1:23:05running and so this is going to set us

1:23:06up to be able to do that. So, u my

1:23:08questions are, um, if you could, um, go

1:23:12into a little bit of, uh, detail and and

1:23:15you know, some of this is in the memo,

1:23:16but just if you can elaborate a little

1:23:18bit more on community involvement and

1:23:22what that is, um, anticipated um, to

1:23:25look like because I know that there have

1:23:26been uh, a few there's been a group,

1:23:30maybe a couple groups, but there's been

1:23:32at least a group of residents um, some

1:23:36nonprofit um experts in this area who've

1:23:39been um deeply involved and very

1:23:40interested in and regularly meeting. Um

1:23:43if you could go into timeline a little

1:23:45bit um what we're looking at in terms of

1:23:48timeline if you could give us the status

1:23:50of DEEQ testing

1:23:53um provide some next steps and I'll go

1:23:56back through this and then I'm I'm cur

1:23:59I'll be curious um just to confirm the

1:24:03money that we have already put into the

1:24:05CIP which I believe is $12 million now I

1:24:07think it was seven and five um just to

1:24:10confirm that that is in fact going

1:24:12towards this and what we think in terms

1:24:14of how much that will cover and maybe we

1:24:18don't know that yet. So if we can start

1:24:20just with the um community involvement.

1:24:23>> All right. So the community involvement

1:24:25um so yes we the the plan will be in

1:24:27collaboration with DPR A1 our consultant

1:24:29that we're bringing on board and members

1:24:31of toxics free uh North Carolina North

1:24:33Carolina environmental justice network

1:24:35and other community leaders and

1:24:36advocates.

1:24:38>> What was the second part of your

1:24:40question? Second question, um timeline.

1:24:43>> Timeline. So, we're looking at four to

1:24:45six months to get A1 and their team on

1:24:48to u provide us with a menu of options

1:24:50for the four parks. Um the the that's

1:24:53Lions Park, Lion Park, Walltown,

1:24:55Northgate, and East Durham. As you all

1:24:57know, East End is already part of the

1:25:00the park redevelopment. Um so, we

1:25:02already have some that in process. Um,

1:25:05but we're looking at four to six months

1:25:06to provide us with a menu of options

1:25:08alternative to what DEEQ is doing.

1:25:10>> So that's the full span of this contract

1:25:12is very intensive work over the next

1:25:14four to six months.

1:25:15>> Correct. Yes.

1:25:16>> Okay. That's a lot of Okay, that's fast.

1:25:18All right.

1:25:18>> And we we're asking to move quickly

1:25:20because we understand the priority that

1:25:22the city and the community is looking

1:25:23for solutions.

1:25:24>> Perfect. Um, and then if you if you know

1:25:28um the the status of DEQ.

1:25:31>> Yes. So, DEEQ has provided four rounds

1:25:34of reports for all five parks to date.

1:25:37Um, they are currently developing wraps

1:25:40for two parks, Lions, Lion Park and

1:25:42Walltown. Those wraps are in progress

1:25:44right now. We have yet to see them. I'm

1:25:46expecting them anytime uh this month.

1:25:48>> What's a wrap?

1:25:49>> Uh I'm sorry, a wrap remedial action

1:25:51plan. Um and we're expecting those this

1:25:54month as well as they're just getting

1:25:55started on East End's uh remedial action

1:25:58plan as well.

1:26:04Maybe you said what was the timeline for

1:26:05that?

1:26:06>> So, we're expecting them, we've been

1:26:08expecting a wrap for a while to be fully

1:26:11transparent. They've uh

1:26:12>> we initially thought it would be at the

1:26:13end of last year, right?

1:26:15>> Oh, yeah. Yes. Um so, they have, like I

1:26:18said, they have progressed um those two

1:26:20sites, Lionstown and Walltown.

1:26:22Currently, they are in the process and

1:26:24I'm expecting it this month. Um, but

1:26:28we've expected things before and and and

1:26:30it hasn't come true. So, we'll continue

1:26:33to keep you updated.

1:26:34>> Okay. And then, um,

1:26:37>> and I guess I'm going to elaborate. Once

1:26:40you get the rap, we have to vet it

1:26:42internally, right? And and comment

1:26:44before it actually goes out to a public.

1:26:46And

1:26:47>> okay. And then how long would that take?

1:26:51to be determined because I think part of

1:26:53our review is looking at al the

1:26:56alternative remedies which is why we're

1:26:57bringing on A1 and their team is because

1:27:00the the DEEQ's remedy may not be the

1:27:03preferred option of the city and the

1:27:05community.

1:27:06>> So we have to have somebody else in our

1:27:08corner giving us those other

1:27:09alternatives to evaluate against. So

1:27:12it's going to take some time.

1:27:13>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And then

1:27:16the [clears throat] last two questions

1:27:17um if you could just talk about the next

1:27:20steps. What is the what are we going to

1:27:22be hearing coming out of this? Um what

1:27:26what what do next steps look like over

1:27:28the next four to six months and then

1:27:29potentially following that?

1:27:32>> So we'll get those menu of options from

1:27:34our team. We will have to vet that and

1:27:37and review that internally with uh city

1:27:40manager's office and and and whatnot to

1:27:42determine what uh process needs to move

1:27:46forward, what funding needs to be um

1:27:49allocated to support this. You asked

1:27:52about funding. Um we currently have $12

1:27:54million that has been set aside for

1:27:56remediation. Um we we're spending a

1:28:00portion of that on this contract and

1:28:02then um the rest will be kind of waiting

1:28:05for what remedy we we and the community

1:28:08choose for one or five parks. Um

1:28:13we can't afford all all parks currently.

1:28:17So the city will have to be strategic in

1:28:20in deciding you know what what they want

1:28:23to do.

1:28:25>> Okay. Okay. So That's that's useful. So,

1:28:28um so this is coming out of the 12

1:28:30million from the CIP. So, we're going to

1:28:32be at a little under 11 and a half

1:28:36million after this

1:28:37>> 5%

1:28:38>> to work with. Okay. And then um and we

1:28:42that that won't be enough. So, we will

1:28:43we will be constrained by the amount

1:28:46that we have allocated thus far

1:28:49at that point.

1:28:52>> Correct. And I I'm looking at you both.

1:28:56>> Yes. So I I would I would like to So um

1:29:01yes, financial constraints are are

1:29:03obviously going to be um you know how

1:29:07much money we've set aside. However, I

1:29:09think we've always presumed that gi

1:29:12given sort of the wide openen nature of

1:29:14of what the assessments might show and

1:29:16what the uh the outcomes might be. I

1:29:19think we've not been able to put an

1:29:21estimate on that. I think the other

1:29:22thing I want to uh reiterate uh for

1:29:26anyone who is listening is the state has

1:29:28a a funding source uh that they can make

1:29:32available for this program. I think the

1:29:34council put it on one of their

1:29:36legislative priorities with your state

1:29:37lobbyists to help us figure out the best

1:29:41way. And so there may be the the

1:29:43potential for assistance, potentially

1:29:45substantial assistance from the state.

1:29:47So, I think the the 12 million that we

1:29:49have set aside was always intended to be

1:29:51a bit of a placeholder and that we never

1:29:54really could [snorts]

1:29:55presume sort of what a full budget would

1:29:57look like and and I think this is going

1:29:58to help be an important step in moving

1:30:00in that direction.

1:30:02>> Okay, I appreciate that. Um

1:30:05[clears throat]

1:30:06and then at sorry and then at that point

1:30:10um six months down the road we've got uh

1:30:14you know we got the results from from

1:30:15the work that's being done under this

1:30:17contract. We'll have a much better we'll

1:30:19have hopefully the DEQ testing which

1:30:22potentially after DEQ testing that might

1:30:24already open up some some

1:30:27>> So you already have the DQ DEQ testing

1:30:29you're waiting on the DEQ wraps the

1:30:31remedial action plans. That's what we're

1:30:33waiting on.

1:30:33>> Okay. Okay.

1:30:34>> And then [clears throat] um and then at

1:30:36that point we'll have to evaluate if we

1:30:38have currently allocated enough um in

1:30:41the CIP, see if we can get money from

1:30:43the state and see if we need to put more

1:30:46money into the CIP during the budget

1:30:48process or

1:30:50issue a bond or something like that.

1:30:52>> That is correct. And I believe DPR will

1:30:55be putting forward a CIP request

1:30:57regardless.

1:30:58>> Okay.

1:30:59>> Those are all my qu Thank you so much.

1:31:00Thank you. looking forward to this.

1:31:02>> I think one more scope piece of that

1:31:03that I that I'd offer is, you know, I

1:31:06applaud uh DPR and general services that

1:31:09from the beginning of the process, you

1:31:11know, we have considered both

1:31:13remediation but also remediation and

1:31:15improvement that if we're going to be

1:31:16doing substantial work in these parks,

1:31:18one of the conversations that is

1:31:20underway, but really can't proceed

1:31:22without the the consulting work that we

1:31:24have is, you know, hey, if we're going

1:31:26into these parks, especially these parks

1:31:28that have been closed for a number of

1:31:29years, let's try and leave them better

1:31:31than we found them, not just reopen

1:31:33them. But the ability to do that, the

1:31:35scale at which we could do that will

1:31:37certainly be funding dependent. So, I do

1:31:39think there may be a range of options

1:31:41that council will need to consider for

1:31:43all of the parks that [snorts] start

1:31:45with maybe basic remediation, reopen it

1:31:47the way it was, but also considers ideas

1:31:49for bringing it forward. And I think uh

1:31:51across all five parks, you know, it's

1:31:53our desire to at least consider options.

1:31:56Again, affordability is going to be a

1:31:58critical factor.

1:32:00Thank you, Council Member Cook.

1:32:02>> Thank you. Um, and thank you, Council

1:32:04Member Baker, because that really took

1:32:05care of most of what I wanted to know.

1:32:08Um, I am just curious one question about

1:32:10the timing, which is that if we are, it

1:32:14sounds like our consultants are going to

1:32:15be helping us go through the wrap.

1:32:18Is that correct?

1:32:19>> They're going to be helping us develop

1:32:21menu options. So whether that's the

1:32:24capping cover that DEQ is is

1:32:26recommending, whether that's a full

1:32:27source removal, whether that's a

1:32:28targeted removal, partial removal,

1:32:30partial uh relocation, um that's what

1:32:33they're going to help us develop those

1:32:35options, uh cost estimate those options

1:32:37and evaluate our risks and the pros and

1:32:40cons to each of those options for you

1:32:42all to make the informed decision on

1:32:44what is best to move forward.

1:32:46>> Okay. And I mean, obviously you all have

1:32:49been waiting on D, we've all been

1:32:50waiting on DEQ quite a lot. has slowed

1:32:52the process down quite substantially.

1:32:54Um, and so I understand wanting to do it

1:32:56in the next six months and I certainly

1:32:57don't want to delay it. But I am curious

1:32:59if we don't get these wraps in like and

1:33:01we start this contract, are we going to

1:33:04be taking time on our contract? Is there

1:33:07are we have any concerns about having

1:33:08the consultants but them not being able

1:33:10to sort of finalize their

1:33:12recommendations if we don't get the

1:33:13stuff we need from DEEQ?

1:33:16>> No, I mean we're because they can they

1:33:18can develop their own cap and cover.

1:33:21Okay. Regardless,

1:33:21>> this is this is complimentary to DEQ.

1:33:24DEQ is going to do their process

1:33:26regardless of what we're doing.

1:33:27>> Okay.

1:33:27>> Um it's just whether or not we choose to

1:33:30adopt their recommendation.

1:33:33>> Um which comes with the funding

1:33:35certainty that they will put up forth

1:33:37for that recommendation or or not. Um

1:33:40that recommendation may not be favorable

1:33:42to the city for the reasons that city

1:33:44manager just alluded to in terms of

1:33:46redevelopment and

1:33:47>> future use.

1:33:48>> Sure. And so when you say that the 12

1:33:50million isn't going to be enough, that's

1:33:51even if we chose the cap and cover for

1:33:54all four of the parks, it would not even

1:33:55cover that.

1:33:56>> So correct. So

1:33:58>> full transparency, DEQ has already

1:34:00provided a budget for remediation at all

1:34:04five parks if under their program. I

1:34:06mean, it's in excess of $25 million.

1:34:08>> Okay.

1:34:09>> So

1:34:09>> that's I mean, it's helpful to kind of

1:34:11know like how far away we are from that

1:34:13baseline.

1:34:13>> So we're halfway.

1:34:14>> Yeah, I hear you. Okay. Um, thank you.

1:34:17Yeah, I really appreciate this. And um

1:34:19it's interesting. I was preparing for my

1:34:22uh class that I was teaching on Durham

1:34:24housing and racial covenants and

1:34:27redlinining. And I pulled up the map

1:34:30that was used to base all of the red

1:34:31lining off in Durham. Um, and so you can

1:34:34see sort of the the black designated

1:34:36areas, the white designated areas, and

1:34:38you can see exactly how they mapped it

1:34:40on to um, as we what we know of red

1:34:43lining, but how exactly they mapped it

1:34:44on to most desirable to least desirable

1:34:46neighborhoods. And on that map that they

1:34:48used for their mapping, you can see all

1:34:50of these um, uh, now I'm blanking on the

1:34:54word, but the incinerator sites, you can

1:34:56see them on the map. So, we've like got

1:34:58them on these maps going back like the

1:35:00early 1900s. It's pretty wild to see and

1:35:03to like feel the impacts of those like

1:35:05so many years later. Um just an

1:35:07important thing to think about that

1:35:08we're see we're feeling the impacts like

1:35:10not only of this redlinining which has

1:35:12totally devastated some of our

1:35:13neighborhoods in Durham, right? And and

1:35:15um and allowed wealth to be hoarded in

1:35:17other neighborhoods. We see it in this

1:35:18like economic passing down, but we also

1:35:21see it in like very real health

1:35:23consequences and that's been passed down

1:35:24too. So, um, yeah. Anyway, I appreciate

1:35:27the work on this and, uh, thank you for

1:35:29being so prepared with all those answers

1:35:31that you knew were questions that were

1:35:33coming. So, thanks so much.

1:35:34>> Thank you, Council Member Copek.

1:35:36>> Yep. Thank you. And thanks to my

1:35:38colleagues for the questions and

1:35:39comments, which um, took a lot of what I

1:35:41had in mind. Want to associate myself

1:35:42with that. So, thank you all. Um, I

1:35:46would just want to reiterate

1:35:48what you said about

1:35:52it including four of the parks because

1:35:55the fifth park is included in the east

1:35:57end plan. And just to make sure I'm

1:36:00clear that that's because

1:36:02because A1 is coming with the the the

1:36:07the um kind of the ideas the scenarios

1:36:09for how to to address the issues in the

1:36:12parks because the EEN plan is doing that

1:36:16for for for that park. That's why it is

1:36:19not does not need to be in scope. But

1:36:21it's not like a budgetary question. It's

1:36:22just about like the from a

1:36:25>> just an efficiency just an efficiency

1:36:27and that development. So that park

1:36:30development is separate. It relies on

1:36:33the the remediation of that park for the

1:36:37east end development to um advance

1:36:40forward. So it's just efficiencies that

1:36:43we already have an environmental

1:36:44consultant on that team that we um that

1:36:47we like that we have been working with

1:36:49and um they're helping us with that

1:36:52solution based remedy for that park. no

1:36:55different than A13 will be doing.

1:36:57>> And then in the memo we got as a

1:36:59followup to our last work session about

1:37:01the East End plan, if I'm correct, it

1:37:04stated that the pre-regulatory

1:37:06mitigation for that park alone was

1:37:08estimated to be $10.8 million. Is that

1:37:11correct?

1:37:11>> That is correct. So we've already

1:37:12received some preliminary cost uh

1:37:15estimating from our team for that

1:37:16project. Um and that number that you

1:37:19have read off is the latest projection.

1:37:22>> Okay. And so originally the $25 million

1:37:26estimate from DEEQ to do cap uncover for

1:37:29the five parks

1:37:32um you know that would sort of presume

1:37:34you know I know every park is different

1:37:36and they will need different approaches

1:37:38but you know is that sort of higher than

1:37:41maybe we would have thought at the time

1:37:42when we got the initial DEEQ?

1:37:45>> Yeah so the the 10.8 made estimate is a

1:37:47targeted removal remedy solution that

1:37:51our team has provided for that park. The

1:37:54the DQ's remedy solution for the park is

1:37:58a cap and cover

1:38:00>> that does not support redevelopment um

1:38:02in our future planned use and that's a

1:38:06$4.5 million price tag currently

1:38:08according to them. So

1:38:10>> okay,

1:38:11>> there's that delta there. It's a

1:38:12completely two different remedies.

1:38:14>> Okay, great. Thank you. And then to the

1:38:16manager's point, I mean, it seems like

1:38:17Eastston's almost the reverse. It's like

1:38:19we were going to redevelop the park and

1:38:20so we had the opportunity to do

1:38:22mitigation at the same time. In the

1:38:23other parks, it's more we need to do

1:38:25mitigation and so there's an opportunity

1:38:27for improvement. Um, and so I imagine

1:38:30will that be part of DPR's budget

1:38:31request as well about potential cost of

1:38:34improvement on top of what we're

1:38:36estimating for mitigation?

1:38:39>> I'm so I I believe so. So, I mean, part

1:38:42of what we're looking at in the remedy

1:38:44is how can we utilize park features to

1:38:49serve as the remedy solution as in the

1:38:52in the form of a cap and cover. Um, you

1:38:56know, relocating some of the waste if

1:38:57needed to put underneath a basketball

1:39:01court or, you know, some other play

1:39:02feature. So that is part of the future

1:39:07scoping that we're looking at for these

1:39:08parks and and would very much be

1:39:10included as part of our CIP request

1:39:13whenever that comes forth to you all.

1:39:15>> Okay. Thank you.

1:39:18>> Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Thank you

1:39:21so much.

1:39:22>> Thank you.

1:39:23Um the last item I have um besides our

1:39:27under other matters or whatever it's

1:39:29called on the work session agendas um is

1:39:32uh as a presentation item number 11.

1:39:50>> Yeah.

1:41:00Do you folks want to take a quick break

1:41:01while they get this going? Okay, we're

1:41:03going to take a five minute break

1:41:06um just to let them Yep.

1:41:32I thought I had it figured out.

1:41:38>> Um, we were in southern Africa. We

1:41:40started in South Africa on the Western

1:41:42Cape. Then we went east to the coast,

1:41:47then up to Safari, then up to Zimbabwe.

1:41:50It was amazing.

1:41:53I dreamt about it

1:44:32Good afternoon. This is the Spanish

1:44:33interpreter. Can you hear me?

1:48:42Okay, good afternoon. I'm going to go

1:48:43ahead and kick us back off. Uh my

1:48:45understanding is we're having a little

1:48:45bit of a technical difficulty. So,

1:48:47council members, please just use your

1:48:49presentation on your in your granicus

1:48:51and then uh I think it's may it's part

1:48:54of the agenda so the public can see it

1:48:55there. We're just not gonna have it on

1:48:57our big screens, but I want to keep us

1:48:59rolling. So, go ahead. Thank you.

1:49:02>> Great. Thank you. And good afternoon.

1:49:04Uh, I'm John Pas Wilds. I'm a senior

1:49:06project manager at the general services

1:49:08department. And with me today is, uh,

1:49:10Drew Tedman from Array Architects. We're

1:49:13presenting on the city hall improvements

1:49:15project.

1:49:16>> Excellent.

1:49:18>> And John, I will ask you uh, tell

1:49:20council members what slide you're on

1:49:22since they're all using that. Just when

1:49:24you advance a slide, tell them We're

1:49:26going to slide two.

1:49:26>> We'll do. Okay, we're on slide two.

1:49:28Thank you. Uh, this construction project

1:49:30will relocate the development services

1:49:32center functions from the ground floor

1:49:34of city hall up to the first floor lobby

1:49:37area. Um, it'll also create a security

1:49:39operations suite and a family toilet

1:49:41room and it'll add a wall and secure

1:49:43door to close off private city offices

1:49:46on the east side of the first floor.

1:49:48This is all based on a 2022 security

1:49:50risk assessment that recommends

1:49:53consolidation of public access uh to

1:49:55city hall by relocating all the public

1:49:57facing services from various locations

1:49:59within the building into the lobby area.

1:50:01This proposed change is intended to

1:50:03increase customer service by improving

1:50:05ease of access to city uh services to

1:50:07visitors and also enhance security for

1:50:10the city hall campus. Um the

1:50:13construction contract with the Danielle

1:50:14Company is on the October 19th agenda

1:50:16which does require your vote. Um and

1:50:19then also a few important notes. Uh

1:50:21temporary water billing services will be

1:50:23relocated

1:50:25uh to the ground floor um to colllocate

1:50:28where Durham ser uh de development

1:50:31services center currently is during

1:50:33construction. Uh construction is

1:50:35anticipated between January and late

1:50:37March of next year and this will require

1:50:40communication to the public for the

1:50:41temporary water billing location as well

1:50:43as the new location for development

1:50:45services once they move upstairs in the

1:50:48spring.

1:50:49Slide three and then I'm going to pass

1:50:51it over to Drew for this one.

1:50:57>> Hey everyone. Um so I'm one of the

1:51:00architects from Marray Architects that

1:51:02worked on this project. Um, I want to

1:51:04start off by kind of outlining why we

1:51:07think these changes are needed. Um, as

1:51:09John mentioned, um, the 2022 physical

1:51:14security assessment, um, recommended

1:51:17some of these changes,

1:51:19um, we think it'll be really nice to

1:51:21consolidate um, all of the public facing

1:51:24activities in city hall um, to the lobby

1:51:27space um, so people aren't guessing

1:51:29where to go. They're not wandering the

1:51:31halls. Um,

1:51:33And we think this will improve

1:51:34wayfinding um and improve the visitor

1:51:37experience overall. Um and I also just

1:51:41want to point out the there's a photo of

1:51:42the existing security office on here.

1:51:45It's like a closet. So So um we're going

1:51:49to give the security um department much

1:51:51more room. Next slide. This is slide

1:51:55four. Um, and this just gives you kind

1:51:58of an overview um of the areas that

1:52:00would be renovated under this project.

1:52:03Next slide.

1:52:05So, this is slide five. And um here are

1:52:08some of the things that we are um that

1:52:11will be new under this renovation. So,

1:52:16thanks. Thanks.

1:52:18So, there's going to be a new security

1:52:20operations suite um with upgraded HVAC

1:52:24controls. um that would match the rest

1:52:26of city hall. Um there would be some new

1:52:30housekeeping spaces, um an improved

1:52:32water billing desk,

1:52:35um a relocated development services

1:52:37center that's coming up from the

1:52:39basement floor, um to the lobby area. Um

1:52:45there would be a an improved lactation

1:52:47room for staff of city hall. um a new

1:52:50touchdown office for visitors um at city

1:52:53hall. Um and there would be a new

1:52:57inclusive family restroom off of the

1:52:59lobby. Um and also a controlled access

1:53:02door that would separate the um the

1:53:06lobby area from the um the staff offices

1:53:09in city hall. Next slide. Um so this is

1:53:13slide six. And um here's just a more

1:53:16granular look at the areas that we're

1:53:19renovating. Um you can see the security

1:53:23operations suite. Um it includes a

1:53:25little badging desk, um a smaller

1:53:29conference room, a break room, and a

1:53:32much larger um security monitoring um

1:53:35area. Um and to the right of that is the

1:53:39new development services center. Um

1:53:42there's a pretty large um waiting area

1:53:45along with three private offices um and

1:53:49one smaller conference room.

1:53:52Um and then you can see the water

1:53:54billing suite. It's in its existing

1:53:56location. Um it's just a little more

1:53:59optimized and we've added um some

1:54:01acoustic panels um for some like sense

1:54:04of privacy um for visitors that are at

1:54:06that water billing station. Um, and then

1:54:10on the right side of the screen, you can

1:54:11see the new lactation room, the new

1:54:14private office, and the new family

1:54:17restroom. Next slide.

1:54:22Um, and so this is slide seven. Um, and

1:54:24so we really think this will create a

1:54:26more resident focused floor. Um,

1:54:30as I said before, it really keeps people

1:54:32from wondering the halls and um, it

1:54:34keeps them from guessing where the

1:54:35services that they need are.

1:54:38um wayfinding will be improved and it'll

1:54:41feel way more intuitive when you um

1:54:43enter city hall to access these

1:54:45services.

1:54:48Next slide.

1:54:50Um and so this is slide eight. Um and so

1:54:54this also makes city hall a more safer

1:54:57place for for um visitors and for city

1:55:01hall employees. um having that uh that

1:55:05badge access wall um that'll um just add

1:55:11another layer of protection for um city

1:55:15hall employees. Um

1:55:18and then the new security operations

1:55:20suite goes without saying. Um that'll

1:55:23really add security capacity um to that

1:55:27department.

1:55:29Next slide.

1:55:31Um, and so this is slide nine, and we

1:55:34just want to uh outline a little of what

1:55:37to expect during construction. Um, the

1:55:40anticipated timeline would be January

1:55:432027 to March 2027.

1:55:46Um, and so there will be some areas um

1:55:50around the renovation that'll be closed.

1:55:54Um you can see on your screen there's a

1:55:56a blue like line um where the current

1:56:00water billing station is. That will be a

1:56:03temporary construction barrier um during

1:56:06construction. Um and that means that

1:56:09there will be uh an exit kind of down

1:56:12that corridor that will be blocked off

1:56:14during construction. Um, and we will

1:56:18have signage kind of at that barrier

1:56:20that um that just notes where the um the

1:56:24other exits in city hall are. There are

1:56:26a lot of exits um off the lobby, so this

1:56:29shouldn't be an issue. Um, and we've

1:56:31talked to the fire marshall and he's

1:56:33confirmed that this is all okay. Um,

1:56:38and so one thing that'll happen during

1:56:41construction is the water billing um,

1:56:45suite will be moving downstairs to the

1:56:47um, existing

1:56:50um, development services area. Um, and

1:56:54so we'll have adequate signage just to

1:56:56direct visitors um, during construction

1:56:59of where that is. Um and we will of

1:57:02course communicate with um employees of

1:57:04city hall as things come up. Next slide.

1:57:10Um and so this is slide 10 and this is

1:57:12just a little more granular look at

1:57:14that. Um

1:57:17so you can kind of see the exit that'll

1:57:19be closed off in the bottom left hand

1:57:20corner of your screen. Um

1:57:24and there will be some after hours work.

1:57:27Um, we don't want construction to

1:57:28interrupt any of the city hall

1:57:30functions. Um, so anything that will

1:57:34impede

1:57:36uh visitors like access to certain

1:57:39spaces will happen after hours. Um, that

1:57:41includes the construction of the barrier

1:57:45um that'll separate the lobby from the

1:57:47staff offices and some tile work that'll

1:57:50happen around that water billing desk.

1:57:53Next slide.

1:57:56And so just in summary, we think that

1:57:58all of these changes will really make a

1:58:00safer, easier to navigate, visitor

1:58:02focused and more functional city hall

1:58:05for everyone, visitors and um city

1:58:07staff. So I'm going to let John take

1:58:10back over.

1:58:12Thanks, Tre.

1:58:15Okay, slide 12. The construction

1:58:17contract on the agenda is for 547,698.

1:58:22Um along with the contingency, that's a

1:58:24total authorization of uh just over

1:58:26$630,000.

1:58:28Uh please note, this is part of a larger

1:58:30two 2.6 million city hall

1:58:32reconfiguration CIP project, which also

1:58:35includes furniture, security, AV

1:58:37relocation expenses, and other other

1:58:39project costs. Um all related to the the

1:58:42larger city reorganization.

1:58:45Um, and as I've mentioned, construction

1:58:47is anticipated to begin in early January

1:58:49once permitting is complete and wrap up

1:58:52toward the end of March of next year.

1:58:55Slide 13. So, in conclusion, council

1:58:57action is needed to award the

1:58:59construction contract to the Danielle

1:59:00Company in the amount of 547,698

1:59:03with the math maximum authorization of

1:59:0663698.

1:59:08And we can entertain any questions you

1:59:09have.

1:59:18Go ahead. Go ahead, Council Member

1:59:19Baker.

1:59:20>> All right. Thank you. Um, so

1:59:22[clears throat]

1:59:24this is um bringing some some things and

1:59:27consolidating them. So um what

1:59:31what happens to so like for example the

1:59:34development services center. So what

1:59:35happens to the the existing development

1:59:37services center? So there is also

1:59:39another project underway that Rey is

1:59:41also helping with. It's a larger space

1:59:43planning exercise for the building

1:59:45looking at all the departments um

1:59:47accounting for future growth and what

1:59:49what we can do to to maximize some of

1:59:51those these available spaces. Um that

1:59:54that area is one of them as well as the

1:59:56third floor uh once once uh

1:59:58environmental services vacates third

2:00:00floor.

2:00:00>> Okay. Thank you.

2:00:02>> Thank you. Anyone else?

2:00:05I have a couple questions.

2:00:08when you walk in. I'm having a hard time

2:00:10imagining, you know, we have the lobby

2:00:11area where you sit. That will stay or

2:00:13that's going away.

2:00:15>> The um where water billing is in the

2:00:17lobby.

2:00:18>> Yeah, that's to the left. I'm talking

2:00:19about where like the little TV that's

2:00:21all stays the same. And then the space

2:00:23when you walk up the stairs to chambers

2:00:24where

2:00:25>> that all stays the same as well.

2:00:26>> Okay. I just want to make sure because

2:00:28we use that space for community

2:00:29gatherings and we don't want to lose it.

2:00:30Nope.

2:00:30>> Okay. And then can we look into because

2:00:33the part that is going to be public

2:00:35facing around developmental services is

2:00:36going to be upstairs.

2:00:38>> So can we think about putting a security

2:00:40door where the elevators are too because

2:00:42at the end of the day there really

2:00:44shouldn't be if folks have an

2:00:46appointment or something they can be

2:00:47upstairs. We've had issues where folks

2:00:49are up on the second floor where they

2:00:52really shouldn't be. They're not getting

2:00:54stopped by security. And if we're going

2:00:56to be adding a door on the other

2:00:58hallway, we should potentially be

2:01:00thinking about adding a door where the

2:01:02elevators are because right now we can't

2:01:04do that because folks have to go

2:01:05downstairs. There is publicly facing

2:01:07work downstairs, but

2:01:08>> that is a loop and we have to we have

2:01:11access to the bathrooms to get to the

2:01:14bathrooms.

2:01:15>> Um

2:01:15>> is it possible you unlock the door? I

2:01:17just

2:01:17>> Well, the um I don't know Yvon Scoggins

2:01:20is here. She might be able to talk to

2:01:22the security aspect a little bit.

2:01:29Good afternoon, Yvon Scoggins, General

2:01:31Services. Um, so you may have noticed

2:01:33that we have installed cameras in the

2:01:35elevators as part of a larger larger

2:01:37security project. There are badge

2:01:40readers that are also installed in the

2:01:42elevators as part of the reconfiguration

2:01:45project. Um, those elevators will come

2:01:48online where you will need a city badge

2:01:50to badge up to a floor. And the doors at

2:01:52the elevators that are now unlocked and

2:01:55free flow, those will also get locked

2:01:56down as this project comes together.

2:01:58>> Okay. At all times because I know after

2:02:00right now it's after 5 PM.

2:02:01>> Yes. Okay.

2:02:02>> They will be online all the time. You

2:02:04will need a badge to get through the

2:02:06menu.

2:02:06>> Thank you. That answer my question.

2:02:08>> Thank uh Mayor Prom, if I may. the the

2:02:12um we had a conversation in a mayor

2:02:15mayor prom manager meeting where it

2:02:17would be helpful um I think for staff to

2:02:20hear from the council just to ensure

2:02:23that we're in alignment with your

2:02:25thoughts on on public access to the

2:02:27second floor as obviously with this room

2:02:31uh and currently there is public access

2:02:34allowed and presumed to be allowed we do

2:02:36not restrict access up to the second

2:02:38floor um I hear in your comments and

2:02:40it's a desire to do so and we certainly

2:02:42can work to do that and and as Miss

2:02:45Gagogan said, you know, we we are

2:02:47prepared and we have infrastructure to

2:02:49do that. At some point it'd be great for

2:02:52uh for council either in a retreat

2:02:53setting or through the procedures

2:02:55committee perhaps to just have a

2:02:56conversation about that. Um and we can

2:02:58follow council's direction on that. uh

2:03:00you we we clearly as as you're

2:03:02indicating we are clearly trying to

2:03:05concentrate as much public safety facing

2:03:07as possible in the first level but

2:03:09obviously we want the council suite to

2:03:12be at the discretion of council how much

2:03:14or how little access you want the public

2:03:16to be able to have

2:03:16>> thank you and I understand we do our

2:03:18work sessions here on Thursdays but that

2:03:19is at a published time right and that's

2:03:22different so um go ahead coun council

2:03:24member Burrus

2:03:25>> but thinking about that and the new

2:03:26security features that are elevated how

2:03:27does that work in preventing like

2:03:29accessibility for folks like that if you

2:03:30have to badge into the elevator at all

2:03:32points if it becomes secure at that

2:03:33point then you have how do you remedy

2:03:35that on Thursdays are you gonna have a

2:03:36moment where you don't have people

2:03:37badging with the elevator

2:03:40>> I didn't make the decision on the

2:03:41elevator so I would be I would assume

2:03:43that the days where there's actual

2:03:45public meetings there's a different time

2:03:46because even even our committee meetings

2:03:49dos meets in this building many

2:03:50commission and comm open meetings but

2:03:52those are scheduled times and so I'm

2:03:54assuming there's going to be um

2:03:56opportunities I understand that I can't

2:03:59who remember who else but there's lots

2:04:00of community meetings that happen in the

2:04:02evenings here but that's those are all

2:04:04published I'm talking about when there

2:04:06is not a published thing we have had

2:04:08folks wandering the second floor in a

2:04:10manner that I don't think is appropriate

2:04:13>> so we are still working through the

2:04:14logistics of how the security will be

2:04:17implemented and we will be handing that

2:04:19off to leadership to make it the

2:04:21decisions about how much access there is

2:04:23to certain areas and we have security

2:04:25staff that can escort people for

2:04:28meetings that are not on a large scale.

2:04:33>> Thank you. Thank you. Um Manager

2:04:34Ferguson Manager Ferguson said just so

2:04:37the public can hear um that they'll

2:04:39bring back recommendations on that.

2:04:43>> I think those are all the questions we

2:04:45have. Thank you so much.

2:04:46>> Thank you,

2:04:50>> Manager Ferguson. Let's go ahead and

2:04:52settle the agenda and then we'll do

2:04:53other matters.

2:04:55Thank you uh Madame Mayor Prom. Uh for

2:04:58the settlement of the agenda, I have on

2:05:00consent items 2 through 17. For GBA

2:05:03public hearings, we have items 18

2:05:05through 20 and 22. And as a reminder,

2:05:08item 21 was referred back to staff.

2:05:12>> Thank you. Can I get a motion to settle?

2:05:15Wait. Thank you. All in favor?

2:05:18>> Any opposed? Thanks. Okay. Um, Council

2:05:22Member Copac, I'm going to call on you

2:05:24first because you brought this to our

2:05:26attention on Monday. Okay,

2:05:31>> I'm fine with that. I also know we have

2:05:33folks from the public for the other

2:05:34item. I think council member did I

2:05:36should go. Okay. All righty. So,

2:05:43my notes here. So, uh, you know, I sent

2:05:46across, um, the language for the

2:05:48resolution and mentioned it Monday night

2:05:50during our our GBA. Um, but but you

2:05:53know, very simply, it's a resolution

2:05:55that states the council's opposition to

2:05:57the three proposed amendments to the

2:05:59state constitution and calls on the

2:06:02public to also vote against them. Um it

2:06:05draws upon extensive community advocacy

2:06:08I think many of us have heard uh as well

2:06:11as um borrows from the resolution

2:06:13language put forth by the board of

2:06:15education in past but adapted to be

2:06:17relevant to the needs of the city versus

2:06:20a school system. Um I believe the the

2:06:22board of education resolution only

2:06:24referenced the the tax amendments. This

2:06:26one also references the uh voter ID

2:06:28amendment. And so I'm uh asking for

2:06:32support of my colleagues to place this

2:06:34on our October 19th GBA um to pass it on

2:06:38that agenda uh in time before the

2:06:40election um to help kind of lift up the

2:06:43advocacy uh around this this issue. And

2:06:47so just very briefly, um the amendments

2:06:49seek to put in the constitution a lower

2:06:52maximum uh income tax rate to require

2:06:56the legislature to enact laws limiting

2:06:57property tax levies by local

2:06:59governments. Um and third, a photo ID

2:07:02requirement for all voting. All of these

2:07:03in the state constitution and the

2:07:06consequences of those would be to lead

2:07:09the the risk of even further cuts to

2:07:11municipalities like Durham uh for

2:07:12important services that we need to

2:07:14provide our residents would benefit the

2:07:15richest North Carolinians and largest

2:07:17corporations in our state and uh would

2:07:20attempt to make voting harder without

2:07:21making it safer or or more secure. So um

2:07:24I have the resolation resolution

2:07:26language before you. Um, I will follow

2:07:28your guidance in terms of if it's enough

2:07:30that the council's reviewed it or if it

2:07:32needs to be read. Um, but I would

2:07:34appreciate my colleagues u u

2:07:36consideration for this resolution.

2:07:38>> Thank you. And then per council

2:07:40procedures um the mayor is not here so

2:07:42I'm going to ask you were you able to

2:07:43consult with him before it seemed like

2:07:44that on Monday but I just want to be

2:07:46clear. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

2:07:47>> Um council it is uh before us. The draft

2:07:51uh language has been provided to us. Uh

2:07:53the mayor was consulted ahead of time as

2:07:55per uh council procedures. Uh and so it

2:07:59is uh it is up to in front of us as to

2:08:01whether we would like uh to add this to

2:08:04our I'm sorry, council member Copek,

2:08:06which our next October

2:08:08>> October 19th.

2:08:08>> Thank you. October 19th meeting.

2:08:10>> Go ahead, Council Member Baker.

2:08:12>> Yeah. Um I don't think this is

2:08:14controversial. I support it. Do we need

2:08:16to wave the rules to put it on October

2:08:1819th?

2:08:22Okay.

2:08:23>> Yeah. If we're voting during work

2:08:25session,

2:08:26>> I absolutely think it should go to the

2:08:2719th. So, yeah.

2:08:28>> Okay. So, can anybody else just can we

2:08:29just do a thumbs up if we're okay with

2:08:31going to October 19th?

2:08:33>> Okay. Thank you. And um so this will be

2:08:38Would you like it on GBA or consent?

2:08:41Council member Copac

2:08:43>> like to hear from my colleagues on that

2:08:47>> GBA. It should be on GBA so you can read

2:08:49it out loud.

2:08:50>> Read it out loud and then folks can

2:08:51comment if they want. So, okay, that

2:08:52sounds good. Thank you.

2:08:53>> Thank you for a reminder of that. It

2:08:55goes before it used to be a

2:08:56conversation. Um [laughter]

2:08:59so, uh the resolution will be on uh RGBA

2:09:01agenda. Um the resolution is res

2:09:04resolution regarding the impact of the

2:09:062026 constitutional amendments on

2:09:08Durham. Thank you, Council Member Copac.

2:09:10Uh Council Member Baker,

2:09:13>> mine is equally as easy. Um colleagues,

2:09:16some of you recall that in uh May the

2:09:19city manager asked us for clear

2:09:21direction um of uh how to manage um

2:09:25current encampments on city property. Uh

2:09:27and then um two weeks ago I mentioned

2:09:30that I had been working on a policy and

2:09:32we'd be bringing it today. So um as

2:09:36promised uh I'm proposing to introduce a

2:09:39new homeless encampment policy for the

2:09:40city of Durham. Um the title is

2:09:43currently a resolution of the Durham

2:09:45City Council establishing a policy for

2:09:46accountability of encampment responses.

2:09:49Uh we all know that um the federal

2:09:52government could end homelessness

2:09:53tomorrow if they wanted to and it

2:09:55homelessness is is a is a federal uh is

2:10:00is really created by the federal

2:10:01government. Um it's the responsibility

2:10:04of all of us, the federal, the state,

2:10:05and the local. Uh but the federal

2:10:07government obviously has all of the

2:10:09resources. I think it was alluded to

2:10:10earlier that the amount that we've

2:10:12received to go towards homelessness here

2:10:15in Durham from the federal government is

2:10:16less than the cost of a single tomahawk

2:10:19missile uh for for a single year. Um so

2:10:23uh this policy was crafted over several

2:10:26months. Um I worked with a wide uh range

2:10:29of stakeholders

2:10:31and I don't want to oversimplify uh

2:10:34what's in it because it is several

2:10:36pages. I do want to um lift up what I

2:10:39think are some of the key points. Again,

2:10:41there's more in here than what I'm about

2:10:43to say, but I want to lift up what I

2:10:44think some of the key points are. Um

2:10:47number one, uh it states that unhouse

2:10:49neighbors um cannot be moved unless uh

2:10:52and until there is a shelter option of

2:10:55uh that is appropriate to them. Uh

2:10:57number two, the city must provide

2:10:59adequate outreach and notice to unhoused

2:11:02residents. Um, number three, that there

2:11:04be a plan of action that's created uh

2:11:06with residents um before engaging. Um

2:11:10four, the city must protect residents

2:11:13personal belongings and store them.

2:11:15These are the ones that they want to

2:11:16keep. Um we know that they don't always

2:11:18want to keep all of their possessions um

2:11:21and then make them accessible for free

2:11:23within a period of time.

2:11:26Uh number five, the city um would ensure

2:11:30residents can access key services to the

2:11:33extent that we are capable um within our

2:11:36budget um particularly around health and

2:11:39safety. Um number six, um there needs to

2:11:42be a method for uh unhoused community

2:11:45members to file complaints and seek a

2:11:48resolution um when there when there are

2:11:50issues. Um there are also um some

2:11:53detailed and stringent provisions um in

2:11:56cases of emergency uh where the city

2:11:58does need to move quickly um to protect

2:12:01health and safety. And of course, none

2:12:02of this impacts

2:12:05uh the other laws that we we implement.

2:12:06If there's there's a fire, you put out

2:12:09the fire. If there's um lawb breaking,

2:12:13you you can address that. None of this

2:12:14affects any anything like that. Um and

2:12:19then um I think it's important that we

2:12:23acknowledge what is looming over all of

2:12:25this which is uh the state of North

2:12:27Carolina. Um, of course we have had

2:12:29conversations up here about HP437

2:12:33um the bill um passed by uh the House

2:12:38and the Senate uh vetoed um by the

2:12:42governor and then um Republican

2:12:44leadership have have publicly stated

2:12:47that they do plan to

2:12:50um override the veto. Um and of course

2:12:52HB437

2:12:54is intended to criminalize homelessness

2:12:57and would at complicating matters. Um I

2:13:00think if that is if that does happen, if

2:13:03the veto is overridden, uh I don't think

2:13:06that would render this null and void. We

2:13:08would have to change some of the some of

2:13:11the language um in order to uh be more

2:13:14in compliance with that. Um

2:13:18I don't want to rush this. I want to get

2:13:20it right. And so I would um not to not

2:13:23propose to put it on our next work

2:13:25session. I would propose that uh we put

2:13:27it on one of our November work sessions

2:13:30to give everyone here, city attorney's

2:13:33office, city manager's office, um

2:13:35members of the community um time to to

2:13:39review, comment, provide input. Um we

2:13:42could also consider sending this to one

2:13:44of our uh boards or committees um for

2:13:47their review uh and input. Um and um

2:13:52yeah, look forward to hearing what you

2:13:54all think.

2:13:56>> Thank you, council members. Go ahead,

2:13:58Council Member Burrus.

2:14:01>> Thank you. Um I'm going to try to get

2:14:03through this as levelhead as I possibly

2:14:05can. I think there's a level of

2:14:07irresponsibility here to perpetuate the

2:14:11standard that we are targeting

2:14:14encampments when it's simply not the

2:14:16case from our city staff. And as a

2:14:18council member, I think that is

2:14:19irresponsible to perpetuate that and the

2:14:22harm that it has done into our community

2:14:24in our streets. We are not out here just

2:14:28going to just raid encampments. To my

2:14:32knowledge, that's not what's happening

2:14:33in the city or the community. The camp

2:14:35encampments that I know of were drug

2:14:37hubs. The one that I witnessed with my

2:14:40very own eyes and saw able-bodied people

2:14:43posted in the tent selling poison to

2:14:45their own people.

2:14:47That's what I witnessed. It was not that

2:14:49the city was just we went we got bored

2:14:52one day and decided to go to an

2:14:54encampment. Similar circumstances with

2:14:56the encampment on Fagetville Street in

2:14:58Pilot Street where you have people

2:15:02because I want to know what's dignified

2:15:03about people who look like me who are

2:15:07sleeping in tents on the ground who have

2:15:11nowhere to to bathe

2:15:14who have nowhere to use a restroom. So

2:15:16it's all in the same spot and then to

2:15:19sit here and and insinuate that what

2:15:22we're doing is just getting bored one

2:15:24day and saying you can't be here to sit

2:15:26here and and to overlook what the

2:15:28children see that's happening across the

2:15:30street. Would you want your child

2:15:31exposed to that? I I'm not a parent. I'm

2:15:34only an auntie. But I wouldn't want

2:15:35anyone any child in my family to see.

2:15:38We're normalizing that daily basis.

2:15:39Drugs on a daily basis. You drive down

2:15:42the street, see somebody slumped over,

2:15:43you don't know if they're dead or alive.

2:15:45people trafficking their bodies and to

2:15:48sit here and to to act like we're just

2:15:51targeting people and not trying to we

2:15:54people have been offered housing and we

2:15:56do not have the resources I understand

2:15:58to completely address the issues and we

2:16:01our city staff is trying to their best

2:16:03their their capabilities to provide

2:16:05those resources. The real thing happens

2:16:07is when you encounter someone who is

2:16:09suffering from illness or addiction,

2:16:11they're being it's just culture right

2:16:13now in Durham where people are being

2:16:15exploited by every end. The drug dealer

2:16:17exploiting them, the people who who care

2:16:20who claim to care about the issues but

2:16:22not really fully understand the root

2:16:23causes and trying to and denying their

2:16:26voices and advocacy about what they

2:16:27need. And you go out and help someone if

2:16:30you have to have a camera and on them

2:16:32when you're helping them. Are you doing

2:16:33that for your to serve them? or you

2:16:36doing it to serve yourself and your own

2:16:37soul? And that's where I'm at with this

2:16:39is that we're not trying to criminalize

2:16:42God knows I'm not because I've had some

2:16:44scary situations in my life where I've

2:16:45been housing insecure even as a child. I

2:16:48would never do that. So to sit here and

2:16:50have to come and have people attack you

2:16:52when you're meeting with constituents,

2:16:54to post things online about you when

2:16:56you're simply trying to do your job,

2:16:58when you attack our city staff and you

2:17:00perpetuate that, that's so offensive to

2:17:01me and it's so performative. So I want a

2:17:04real policy that we provide to directly

2:17:07to staff to address this issue and that

2:17:09we bring sides together and everything

2:17:12is not about theatrical performance or I

2:17:15understand folks are campaigning but

2:17:16this is real life for some of us and it

2:17:17hurt is breaking my heart that we

2:17:20reducing people down to say that you

2:17:23your life is worth living in these

2:17:24conditions and that we're not trying to

2:17:26find a reasonable way. So that's just my

2:17:28what my observation is. I apologize, but

2:17:31I am really frustrated with this because

2:17:34it comes back out to our daily lives

2:17:35where people are assuming that you are

2:17:37doing harm to people and that's not the

2:17:39case by any means. People are not just

2:17:41in encampments. People are sleeping in

2:17:42their cars. People are couch surfing

2:17:46like you see all across. So I want to

2:17:48have a comprehensive plan to where we

2:17:50can address the issues, but we've got to

2:17:52start by telling the truth. And it's not

2:17:54that we just got up one, I keep saying

2:17:56it, but no one got up one day and

2:17:58decided to go out and target people. The

2:18:00real question comes along with what

2:18:02happens when someone doesn't want to

2:18:04take the help that we give them. What do

2:18:05we do then?

2:18:07What what happens to those neighbors in

2:18:09those moments? You got to hear all the

2:18:11sides. But you cannot move forward in a

2:18:14way to where we only tell one side of

2:18:16the story to the side that makes us look

2:18:17good. That's not okay. As a city council

2:18:20person, you took an oath. I got to go

2:18:21oath. We got to be honest about it and

2:18:24make sure that we're telling the truth

2:18:25about what's happening here and not

2:18:26perpetuate stories that are simply

2:18:28untrue.

2:18:32>> Thank you, Council Member Baker. I

2:18:33appreciate the hand. I just want to make

2:18:35sure that anyone else who wants to

2:18:36speak. I appreciate you're I have a

2:18:40feeling you're going to have some

2:18:41information back. Um, Council Member

2:18:43Copek or Council Member Cook.

2:18:47>> Okay. Sorry, I missed your hand. Council

2:18:48member um Thank you. Yes. So, um I hear

2:18:52what you're saying and I I think that

2:18:55um

2:18:57there's a lot going on and the reason

2:18:58that we're seeing this in front of us

2:19:01now is sort of a a culmination of a lot

2:19:04of events that have happened, but it's

2:19:06also like the culmination of a lot of

2:19:07things that have been going on behind

2:19:08the scenes for several years. I know

2:19:11that folks have been talking about

2:19:12encampment policies. We've been talking

2:19:15about this at HSAC, for example, um,

2:19:17since I got on, which has been almost

2:19:19three years ago. Um, it was wrapped up

2:19:22in other conversations because those

2:19:23things were feeling like more poignant,

2:19:25I think, at the time. So, I'm

2:19:27specifically thinking back to last

2:19:28winter when we were like having a real

2:19:30intensive conversation about whether we

2:19:32were going to hand out tents and there

2:19:33was a lot of debate around that. Um and

2:19:38but this has this has always been the

2:19:40encampment issue and and not having a

2:19:42clear policy to direct staff has always

2:19:45been sort of an undercurrent issue. Um

2:19:48and I know that uh the city manager had

2:19:51this conversation with us publicly and

2:19:53also probably privately. Um uh manager

2:19:56Paige also had this issue which is like

2:19:59the discretion falls on someone to make

2:20:01a decision at some point in time and

2:20:03without any clear directive um it's hard

2:20:06to communicate like what factors went

2:20:09into making that decision and so I

2:20:11understand and appreciate the need for

2:20:12this policy um and I also want to

2:20:14appreciate that I seems like quite a lot

2:20:16of work has gone in because this has

2:20:18changed significantly um since I think

2:20:20you talked about it has been probably

2:20:23two two months ago. that you set brought

2:20:25it up the first time. Um, and it's got a

2:20:29lot of really good information in it.

2:20:30Um, I think we've also recently passed a

2:20:32strategic plan and so we have given some

2:20:35guidance to staff that we do want to

2:20:38address homelessness and again as you

2:20:41stated and council member I think this

2:20:42is a good point like homelessness is not

2:20:44limited to encampments. This is like

2:20:47probably a small proportion of people

2:20:48who are living unhoused. U we have lots

2:20:50and lots of people who are uh bumped up.

2:20:53We have people who are uh in cars, in

2:20:55vehicles. I know lots of folks who are

2:20:58unfortunately living in those situations

2:20:59in lots of folks who were living in um

2:21:02hotels and that sort of thing which I

2:21:04don't I don't consider being housed. Um

2:21:06and so of course we need

2:21:11we need the strategic plan is going to

2:21:13have to be so broad and it's going to be

2:21:15have to be so also like tailored to

2:21:17specific people's experiences. Um, but

2:21:20for this specific thing, I think that

2:21:22it's we've been hearing a lot from folks

2:21:24who are unhappy about the way that we

2:21:26have approached

2:21:28encampments both directions, right? Some

2:21:31folks are unhappy that we have cleared

2:21:33encampments. Some people are unhappy

2:21:34that we have only cleared some

2:21:36encampments and not others. They feel

2:21:37that the that because there is, as

2:21:40they're correct, no policy that that

2:21:42we're sort of applying things um and

2:21:45they don't see the reason behind them.

2:21:46So for me, it feels really important to

2:21:48have that direction and it also feels

2:21:51important for us to like protect our

2:21:52staff and give them that direction too.

2:21:55Like that feels an very important piece

2:21:56to me. I don't want people out flailing

2:21:59making decisions trying to interpret

2:22:01what we're saying up here and then like

2:22:03doing something and getting the backlash

2:22:04of the public either direction. So, um,

2:22:07for me, this is, um, I think

2:22:12it's very it's very thorough. Um, and

2:22:16and I do feel like it is it is very, um,

2:22:19tailored to

2:22:22appreciating the dignity and and

2:22:24hardship and vulnerability of folks who

2:22:26are living unhoused, which I think is

2:22:27something that we as a council have

2:22:29talked about in the past being a

2:22:31priority of ours. Um, and so I am happy

2:22:35to Sounds like council member you're

2:22:38open for it to come up in a few weeks.

2:22:43Um, after some other we've had an

2:22:46opportunity to sort of hear from our

2:22:48staff um, from both the city manager and

2:22:51city attorney's office. Um, I think that

2:22:53the folks at HSAC, which is not called

2:22:55HSAC anymore, and I should know what

2:22:57it's now called since I'm on it, but um,

2:22:59that would probably like to take a look

2:23:01at it and provide comments to um, and so

2:23:04I would support moving forward with this

2:23:07as a as a good guidance for us getting

2:23:10started. So, um, yeah. Anyway, those are

2:23:14my comments for now.

2:23:15>> Thank you, Council Member Copac.

2:23:18>> And then, Council Member Baker.

2:23:20>> Yeah, thank you. So, I've only been able

2:23:22to briefly scan the language uh since I

2:23:24got it last night. It was a a busy

2:23:26morning, but I appreciate the work and

2:23:28residents who have given input. Um, I

2:23:31also appreciate the outreach that

2:23:33Council Member Burrus has done um with

2:23:35deep community engagement on the issue.

2:23:37I know the mayor's reached out. I know

2:23:38Council Member Cook thinks deeply about

2:23:40these issues. I've been speaking with

2:23:42residents and staff and the manager uh

2:23:44for months to educate myself and also

2:23:47think about what is the the best way

2:23:49forward to meet the needs of of of

2:23:52residents and a complex issue. As I've

2:23:54shared with Council Member Baker uh at

2:23:56first glance, I'm not um completely sure

2:23:58why it's coming before us as a

2:24:00resolution.

2:24:02Um but for me I instead view this as an

2:24:05an input based on council member Baker's

2:24:08work um into a process where all council

2:24:12members and other you know residents can

2:24:14give input into ultimately asking staff

2:24:19to develop an encampment policy that

2:24:22takes into account all of that input.

2:24:24And so that's how I view this not

2:24:25necessarily as a you know as a policy to

2:24:28respond to. Um but I will review and

2:24:31give comment but as an input into a

2:24:34staffled process. Um so I I don't think

2:24:37we need a policy to direct staff. I just

2:24:39think we need all of us to say we need

2:24:41staff to come to us with a policy that

2:24:44that that covers all the issues at play

2:24:46here. And I think then that would come

2:24:47to a work session and then you know

2:24:50after it's been kind of vetted evaluated

2:24:52and then it would be put on the next GBA

2:24:54is how I would think this process would

2:24:56would work in in in my view. And I think

2:24:58it's possible to come up with a policy

2:25:00that's that's compassionate and and also

2:25:03allow staff to address when there are,

2:25:06you know, real um, you know, community

2:25:08safety issues at play. Uh, and to give,

2:25:11you know, flexibility also with our our

2:25:13our staff who who I do think have done a

2:25:17lot to show us um the the care and

2:25:20compassion that they try and approach us

2:25:21with. just like I feel like the nuance

2:25:23that we hear from a lot of community

2:25:24members who desperately want to help our

2:25:26most vulnerable residents and also um

2:25:29have concerns about what they

2:25:31experience. And so I feel like we can

2:25:33get to a place where uh we can get a

2:25:36policy that that serves those needs and

2:25:38and I'd like to see it come from staff

2:25:40with input like this and input from

2:25:42others like Council Member Burrus, you

2:25:43know, who have brought in voices and and

2:25:45given input. And so that's what I would

2:25:47look for going forward. And so I I

2:25:49wouldn't um support

2:25:52you know, this edited going on a

2:25:54November GBA, but I would support it as

2:25:57an input into a process that I think

2:26:00should be approached with some some

2:26:01urgency.

2:26:03>> Thank you, Council Member Copart,

2:26:05Council Member Baker.

2:26:06>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you all for for

2:26:08your comments. Um, first I just want to

2:26:11address um, Council Member Burrus and

2:26:13and I apologize if if I came across as

2:26:17um, kind of blaming, you know, our staff

2:26:20or anyone who's who's gone out. Um, that

2:26:23wasn't my intent. Um,

2:26:26this is something that is written. Uh,

2:26:30they're they're words on a page.

2:26:33Much of this stuff has already been

2:26:36done. Uh, is is already I think put into

2:26:40practice um by by staff and in this way

2:26:44we're just putting it down on on paper

2:26:46so that everyone can see so that there

2:26:49can be some tr trust building or trust

2:26:52maintenance. Um we have almost 200

2:26:56encampments in our city. Um, obviously

2:26:59there have been a few more high-profile

2:27:02uh engagements with encampments um over

2:27:05the past couple months. Um, and this has

2:27:09risen as something that uh that that

2:27:12seems that seems necessary and also um

2:27:16was was requested of us. Um, I put a a a

2:27:20lot of uh thought and work into this.

2:27:23This is what I am proposing. Um but um

2:27:26to council member Copak's point, there

2:27:28are five of us. Um we can only move as

2:27:32as quickly as as everybody and and

2:27:35through the method that everybody wants

2:27:36to to move. Um and so uh you know, if if

2:27:41a majority of us here would rather uh a

2:27:45different process or no process at all,

2:27:47obviously that is on the table. Um, I am

2:27:50putting forward what I see as what I

2:27:53think is uh

2:27:55reflective of of my values um and um

2:27:59something that I think would work. Um

2:28:02and I have spoken with a variety of

2:28:05stakeholders and um and staff and

2:28:08received input and made some edits and

2:28:10not made others um along the way over

2:28:13the past couple months. Um and so so

2:28:16that's that's where we are here is that

2:28:18um this is about um protecting to the

2:28:23greatest I mean all of this is we are

2:28:26not in a good situation in this country.

2:28:28This the homelessness issue is not a

2:28:30Durham issue. It is a n national issue.

2:28:33Um back in the 20s we we knew that

2:28:36because people called them Hoovervilles

2:28:38named after the the president at the

2:28:40time. Um people recognized that it was

2:28:42because of terrible federal policy. Um,

2:28:44we know it's federal policy, state

2:28:46policy, and we are down here with very

2:28:50limited resources trying to address the

2:28:53issue in the most humane way possible,

2:28:55even though none of this is is actually

2:28:58humane. Um and so this attempts to

2:29:03protect some civil rights uh of of folks

2:29:08without precluding um you know necessary

2:29:12necessary involvement from the city.

2:29:16>> Thank you. Any other council members?

2:29:19>> Okay. Um so uh first off I just from the

2:29:23from the beginning we are missing two

2:29:26two council members and we are missing

2:29:27our mayor today. So, from just that

2:29:29position, I would not feel comfortable

2:29:30moving anything forward. I do feel like

2:29:32this is a full council conversation. Um,

2:29:36I also just want to say that I

2:29:38appreciate all the work, Council Member

2:29:39Baker, but a very long document got sent

2:29:42into our inboxes pretty late on a

2:29:44Wednesday, which the week of a council,

2:29:47at least for me, the week of a council

2:29:49meeting weeks are busy weeks for all of

2:29:51us. And so, I have not gotten through

2:29:53the document. Um,

2:29:56I think that you are correct and that a

2:29:58policy does need to be drafted. I think

2:30:00it needs to be a pretty full and

2:30:01substantive conversation and I think

2:30:03we're all coming at this from very

2:30:04different positions. Um, I know all of

2:30:07us approach this work very differently

2:30:09from one another. Um, and and so

2:30:13it seems like you have given this draft

2:30:15to lots of staff members. Um,

2:30:19go. I'm sorry. I I guess I'm assuming

2:30:23the community safety department has this

2:30:24draft.

2:30:29>> Two people uh uh manager Ferguson and uh

2:30:34city attorney Reeberg have it. Okay. The

2:30:37community safety saw an earlier version

2:30:40>> that incorporated comments.

2:30:41>> Okay. Um thank you. So I think what

2:30:43would be helpful um and based on you

2:30:47know how we've approached the work in in

2:30:50previous years previous cycles is I

2:30:52think we all have a draft now I think

2:30:53the work is robust I think that what we

2:30:56could do which is what's happened in

2:30:58earlier councils is that sometimes a

2:31:00subcommittee so

2:31:02um many years ago the first iteration

2:31:05around tenants rights there was a

2:31:06subcommittee created I think many years

2:31:08ago when we were trying to do a bag fee

2:31:10ordinance a subcommittee was created

2:31:12that is kind how we've done that work um

2:31:15when it's a very substantive policy

2:31:17issue and there's not clear direction on

2:31:20how we move and we're trying to get to

2:31:22consensus as a body. So I am not the

2:31:24mayor. I'm the mayor prom. It is really

2:31:26up to the mayor uh to really think

2:31:29through that process to assign council

2:31:31members to that subcommittee. Um I would

2:31:34think that um I would support you being

2:31:36one member on that subcommittee. We try

2:31:37and keep it to three council members so

2:31:39we're not at quorum. Um, so after today,

2:31:42I'm happy I'm sure the mayor's either

2:31:44watching. He's at Metro Mayors, which is

2:31:46just the the statewide organization of

2:31:48large mayors. Um, so happy to um I'm

2:31:53sure he's watching, sit down with him,

2:31:55and then figure out what that

2:31:57subcommittee process could look like,

2:31:59uh, take the document that's been

2:32:00drafted, and I'm going to let the mayor

2:32:04have that privilege of assigning other

2:32:06council members. Sometimes we just let

2:32:08folks self- select because they've

2:32:10already been working with organizations,

2:32:11but because we're missing him today, I

2:32:13don't feel confident in that in in doing

2:32:15that without consultation with him. So,

2:32:17I think that that's probably our next

2:32:19step. Um um I'm going to be done in just

2:32:22a second. Um and this is a really good

2:32:25kind of template to move from. It could

2:32:27be that in years past the subcommittee

2:32:29has had one-on- ones with each council

2:32:32member to kind of get their temperature

2:32:33check of where are they? uh how do we

2:32:36incorporate their feedback? It can be

2:32:38brought to staff, relevant staff, and it

2:32:40can really be fully vetted. And so it is

2:32:42then a policy that represents all of our

2:32:44views to the best of our ability.

2:32:48>> Uh Council Member Baker, then Council

2:32:50Member Copac.

2:32:51>> All right. Um, so Council Member Copak

2:32:54suggested putting this back to staff and

2:32:57staff takes the lead and you're

2:32:59suggesting

2:33:00maybe we bring this back at the next

2:33:02work session, discuss it, deliberate and

2:33:05and see how we want to move forward that

2:33:07way.

2:33:08>> I think

2:33:09um I don't feel comfortable bringing

2:33:11this back in November.

2:33:13>> No, no, not this, but the topic.

2:33:16>> Oh. Um,

2:33:17>> of how to proceed.

2:33:19>> We could do that. Um,

2:33:21>> I mean that that's what I that's what I

2:33:23took away from your comments.

2:33:24>> Sorry, I was not being clear. I'm just

2:33:26saying

2:33:26>> when council member wrist and yeah the

2:33:28mayor

2:33:28>> I'm just trying to reflect back on how

2:33:30we have approached kind of more

2:33:32substantive policy issues as a council

2:33:34when um obviously staff input. So I'm

2:33:37just thinking of the bag fee ordinance

2:33:39city attorney's office was very involved

2:33:41in that. Worked very closely with

2:33:43stakeholders worked with school of

2:33:45government because we had I mean we

2:33:46ended up not getting to do it because

2:33:48they put it in their budget. Um but uh

2:33:50at the last I think we were talking

2:33:52about at that work session but that was

2:33:54kind of the approach. So it's almost

2:33:55like a hybrid. The subcommittee works

2:33:56very closely with staff but it is a kind

2:33:59of together process which it seems like

2:34:02council really wants to be involved in

2:34:04that. And so um if if

2:34:08uh city manager has anything to add in

2:34:12this at all around uh staff commitment

2:34:15priority and timeline that would be

2:34:16helpful. I also just want to say finally

2:34:18like we adopted a plan. We all voted on

2:34:21it. It was unanimous. A lot of resources

2:34:24were put into that. It is brand new.

2:34:28We have a community safety department

2:34:30that is one year into doing street

2:34:31outreach. And we have to have a lot of

2:34:33patience and grace for these folks.

2:34:36We also have to have a lot of patience

2:34:38and grace for the folks who are

2:34:39surviving their their living, right? But

2:34:42we can't do this work with ego, y'all.

2:34:45Like, I'm sorry. We all have really

2:34:47strong opinions about this, but we have

2:34:48to decenter what we want and work

2:34:51collaboratively with one another. Um,

2:34:56I'm going to say one last thing and then

2:34:58I'm going to stop talking. This reminds

2:34:59me

2:35:01when George Floyd happened and there was

2:35:04an outcry and and rightfully so, when he

2:35:08was murdered, there was an outcry and

2:35:10urgency around how we should move.

2:35:14And there were a lot of cities that

2:35:16moved with an urgency and a defunding

2:35:19um kind of lens. That was what activists

2:35:23in our community called for. And I still

2:35:25stand by the fact that if I had been up

2:35:27for election in 2020 instead of 2019, I

2:35:30would have lost my seat because the

2:35:32folks who were my constituents really

2:35:34wanted a 10% reduction in the police

2:35:37force. That was absolutely the wrong

2:35:39position because how people feel, how

2:35:42constituents feel in a moment is not how

2:35:45they're going to feel long term.

2:35:48And so what we did was really respond,

2:35:51dig into the data, look at what we

2:35:54needed in Durham. And we knew it was

2:35:56going to be slower and it was going to

2:35:58be with a lot more caution that what

2:36:01Portland was doing than what Minneapolis

2:36:03was doing. And I will look at Portland

2:36:05and I'll look at Minneapolis now and I

2:36:07will say that we've been infinitely more

2:36:09successful. But that's because the

2:36:11leaders in that moment

2:36:14were able to really dig deep and realize

2:36:17that we're going to have to tell some of

2:36:19our closest friends

2:36:22to take it down a notch and let the

2:36:24staff who in my opinion are incredibly

2:36:27competent and compassionate do their

2:36:30jobs. And so that is what I'm asking

2:36:34council and that's what I'm asking

2:36:35community to do in this moment. Um and

2:36:38I'll leave it at that.

2:36:41Yes, manager Ferguson.

2:36:43I'm sorry, Council Member Copac and then

2:36:45Manager Ferguson.

2:36:46>> Thank you. Um so I I think that having a

2:36:50subcommittee is a could be a good way to

2:36:52go. Um you know, I heard you say we need

2:36:54input from the mayor on how to proceed

2:36:55and that makes total sense from a

2:36:57process standpoint. Um, you know, I

2:36:59think for me, um, I would really like to

2:37:02see, um, you know, and I don't know the

2:37:05other resolutions we've done, whether we

2:37:07already have kind of departments and

2:37:09plans that are explicitly working on

2:37:10those things or if it's sort of like

2:37:12something important but kind of like

2:37:14adjacent. Uh, this feels like something

2:37:16where it's very central. You know, we

2:37:18have a framework. We have a great staff

2:37:20team. And so I just think from a process

2:37:23standpoint, I'd like to see it um kind

2:37:25of emanate from the work of staff with

2:37:26the input of council with this and other

2:37:29information as important inputs into it.

2:37:32But that's just me. Uh and of course I

2:37:34would follow the recommendations of of

2:37:36you and the mayor and how to proceed. So

2:37:38>> thank you, Council Member Copac, Manager

2:37:40Ferguson. I'm going to let uh Council

2:37:41Member Bis go.

2:37:44>> Sure. Right. Um no just really quickly

2:37:49um if we go to subcommittee route which

2:37:50I am amendable to going the subcommittee

2:37:52route I do think that the um human

2:37:54relations commission which I'm the

2:37:55leazison for should have representation

2:37:57there as they're studying deep dive in

2:37:58this issue as well. So I just wanted to

2:38:00add that.

2:38:01>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um I'm

2:38:04going to let manager Ferguson go and

2:38:05then maybe we can just do some kind of

2:38:06immediate next steps and then maybe

2:38:08it'll be a topic at a subsequent work

2:38:10session. Thank you.

2:38:13>> Thank you Mayor Prom. Members of

2:38:15council, I want to first state that uh I

2:38:18have had conversations with all seven of

2:38:20you where I uh where you have expressed

2:38:23uh the importance and urgency of this

2:38:26issue. Um I actually while while I

2:38:30acknowledge that there are some

2:38:31differences uh there's uh mostly in

2:38:34those conversations a great deal of

2:38:36alignment amongst council members about

2:38:38uh the critical nature of this issue and

2:38:40and mostly how to approach it. Um my

2:38:43comments are primarily to focus on the

2:38:45fact that I I want to tell you what we

2:38:48will do independent of council direction

2:38:52uh so that you can decide if additional

2:38:53council direction is necessary. Uh

2:38:56council adopted the strategic framework

2:38:58that we brought forward. We have polic

2:39:00we have strong policy guidance from the

2:39:02council and uh while I do not have that

2:39:05plan in front of me, I I believe that

2:39:07that plan does give fairly fairly strong

2:39:11guidance about how we approach

2:39:13encampments, about how we approach um

2:39:16the options that need to be available uh

2:39:19that we would like to be available. Um

2:39:22but I understand it is not an encampment

2:39:24policy. So, uh, in independent I'm let

2:39:28me say it until a policy is brought

2:39:32forward. Um, I still believe we have

2:39:35strong policy guidance from council and

2:39:37and I'm very comfortable asserting and I

2:39:40know there are differences of opinion on

2:39:41this that that we have to the best of

2:39:44our ability with the realities of all

2:39:46the situations that we have approached,

2:39:48we have applied those values to to the

2:39:50best extent possible. I know people

2:39:52differ on whether or not we achieve that

2:39:54but but that's my assertion on behalf of

2:39:56the administration. I would then go on

2:39:58to say that in the absence of any

2:40:00direction from council we will bring an

2:40:03encampment policy forward. The reason

2:40:05why uh we have not brought it forward

2:40:08and I want to be just as transparent as

2:40:10I can be is I I believe that until we

2:40:13are able to build out some of the

2:40:14elements of the framework that were

2:40:17called for by council in adopting the

2:40:19plan that we will not have some of the

2:40:21tools that will be necessary to make an

2:40:24encampment policy um 100% consistent and

2:40:29effective. Uh I do not believe those are

2:40:31in place yet. I think we are working

2:40:33very hard to put those into place. Um

2:40:36but the lack of some of that capacity

2:40:39that I think we are building means that

2:40:42right now um I if we were handed a very

2:40:47specific policy and I want to be clear I

2:40:49have not read Council Member Baker's uh

2:40:52uh proposal and therefore I'm not saying

2:40:54that's what that is. But if we were

2:40:56handed a very specific policy, it it

2:40:58might be challenging for us to comply or

2:41:01at least it it would certainly drive a

2:41:04very uh you know it would drive a very

2:41:07formulaic response to the extent that if

2:41:10we do not have capacity, we are deacto

2:41:12going to leave any encampment in place

2:41:15but for any any exceptions that may be

2:41:18there and I know as in the previous

2:41:20conversation the council member Baker

2:41:22was considering certain exceptions. um

2:41:25as we determine the ability to expand

2:41:30interim capacity

2:41:32uh in and I've talked with a number of

2:41:34you about what that might look like. I

2:41:36believe it becomes much more feasible

2:41:38for us to have a very prescriptive

2:41:40policy that describes what we do with

2:41:42that. Uh and so my timeline

2:41:45if we do not receive additional

2:41:47direction from council uh would be based

2:41:49on that. Um, as I am always careful to

2:41:52say to all seven of you, you that may

2:41:55not be sufficient for you and you may

2:41:57determine as a council that you would

2:41:59like to accelerate that and we will

2:42:01always follow uh the directives of

2:42:03council. But I wanted to make clear that

2:42:06in the absence of any action from

2:42:08council, you we will bring forward a an

2:42:11encampment policy and we will bring it

2:42:13on a timeline that I think is

2:42:15commensurate with when we think we can

2:42:17effectively implement that policy. So, I

2:42:19want to say that and again reiterate

2:42:21that should council choose in any form

2:42:23to give us policy direction before that,

2:42:25we will we will do everything we can to

2:42:27both inform and advise on that policy

2:42:30and then follow whatever the the uh the

2:42:33wishes of of council uh um as they are

2:42:36stated by council. Thank you.

2:42:37>> Thank you, manager Ferguson. Council

2:42:39member Cook.

2:42:41>> Thank you. Yeah. Um,

2:42:44I don't I don't have necessarily any

2:42:46thoughts about the procedure in this

2:42:47moment, but I just want to raise a

2:42:49couple of things that I just want us to

2:42:52be thinking of. The first one is that we

2:42:54we have a house bill that's going to

2:42:55make this conversation irrelevant. And

2:42:57so, do how much do we want to get ahead

2:43:00of that? I think is is just a question

2:43:01that we need to sort of grapple with on

2:43:03this council because um having

2:43:07uh working groups potentially waiting

2:43:10for staff to come with a solution in a

2:43:12way that they think they can actually

2:43:13implement it like those things are going

2:43:15to take a lot of time. So um

2:43:18yeah, where do where do we want to

2:43:20stand? Like do we want to come out in

2:43:21front of this? Um I think that there's

2:43:23good reason to do that. um do we want to

2:43:27have our hands tied by the state

2:43:29legislature? I don't know. It's just

2:43:31some things to think about. Um that bill

2:43:33is is pretty restrictive. So, um

2:43:35something just to to keep in mind. And

2:43:37then I guess the other piece of it is um

2:43:42regardless of where it comes from,

2:43:44whether from staff or from a working

2:43:45group, I want to ensure that we are um

2:43:49that's only the second time I've spoken,

2:43:50so I don't know what's going on. All

2:43:51right. um that I want to show that we

2:43:53are um that we are centering folks

2:43:57voices that don't often get heard in

2:43:59these conversations and and having like

2:44:01really intent a lot of intentionality

2:44:03around um centering those voices.

2:44:07Um and I yeah I I'm thinking a lot about

2:44:10it's funny that you brought up the the

2:44:12plastic uh example because I'm thinking

2:44:15a lot about what it looked like to pour

2:44:16all of that time and resources. is I

2:44:18wasn't on council at this time, but I I

2:44:19watched it very closely to pour all of

2:44:21the time and resources into something

2:44:22that then got preempted and also kind of

2:44:24got preempted because it was a

2:44:26conversation, right? Like that was part

2:44:28of the reason that it got preempted is

2:44:29because it got on a radar somewhere and

2:44:31and got preempted. And so

2:44:33yeah, and and it was other other

2:44:35communities were working on it. So we

2:44:37will not Durham will not take the blame,

2:44:38but um I do think it's like it's

2:44:40something important to think about like

2:44:42where where we're sort of going to take

2:44:44a stand. And um we've talked a lot about

2:44:47what the state looks like right now and

2:44:49how unfriendly it is to um I think the

2:44:52values that the city of Durham purports

2:44:55to hold. And so uh what does it look

2:44:57like and and how quickly do we want to

2:44:59move? So just some things that I'm

2:45:01thinking about. Um, I feel like the

2:45:04strategic plan, though I I'm was a huge

2:45:07proponent of it and still support it,

2:45:09um, does not actually really have a lot

2:45:11of stuff about what happens to folks

2:45:14before we move them into housing, right?

2:45:15Like the strategic and it's and is in

2:45:17fact not that detailed at all, I should

2:45:19say. Like no, no step along the way in

2:45:21the strategic plan is that detailed. And

2:45:22we left it vague on purpose because we

2:45:24wanted to see how things would would

2:45:26happen um and to and to allow like space

2:45:28and and individ independent experiences.

2:45:31Um, but there is not a lot of like harm

2:45:33immediate harm reduction and like

2:45:36community care that is part of that. And

2:45:38so I do I do worry that if we sort of

2:45:40wait until we have fixed the solution

2:45:43part on like getting people housed that

2:45:45we will miss the opportunity to um do

2:45:48some good policym for the the sort of

2:45:51like what happens in the interim. So

2:45:53just some thoughts.

2:45:55>> Thank you. Council member Cook. Um did

2:45:57you have your hands up hand up? Council

2:45:58member Baker go ahead. Yeah, I'll just

2:46:01um say that HP437 is terrible. Um the

2:46:05silver lining could be that it is it

2:46:10pushes us to move quickly and with

2:46:12urgency to set up to uh manager

2:46:16Ferguson's point set up the options the

2:46:20array of options that that could be made

2:46:22available to people using the resources

2:46:24that we historic investment that we that

2:46:26we put in in this budget and hopefully

2:46:28in the next budget. Um,

2:46:32and yeah, that's all I was gonna say.

2:46:34>> Thank you. Um, I Oh, go ahead, Council

2:46:37Member Bur.

2:46:38>> I'll just note that, and I understand I

2:46:39appreciate my colleagues for the

2:46:40comments. I'll note that yes, there will

2:46:43be like, you know, the House bill is

2:46:44terrible and if it whatever they're out

2:46:46of session, right? They only came back

2:46:47to do that gas thing, right? And then

2:46:49they went back.

2:46:50>> I think they didn't formally adjourn,

2:46:51though. So, I think they can come back

2:46:52whenever.

2:46:53Here's the thing though, like that we're

2:46:55going have to figure out implementation

2:46:56regardless of how that moves forward

2:46:57because like through the bill is telling

2:46:59you that you cannot have encampments on

2:47:00public parks and all that. So, we're

2:47:02going to figure it out. So, do you want

2:47:03to be right or do you want to win?

2:47:04That's where I'm just trying to figure

2:47:05it out. Like if we rush this thing, I

2:47:08think that it's going to have Yeah,

2:47:10we're setting stuff up for failure by

2:47:11trying to rush it. So, we need to really

2:47:12be intentional and figure out because

2:47:14we're going to have this looming issue

2:47:15whenever it happens. They're going to

2:47:17preempt us about the encampment piece

2:47:18and if people are on public property, I

2:47:20think it now become or within a certain

2:47:21amount of from a school. I think it's

2:47:23like calls for automatic. You can't have

2:47:25that nest of criminalization part. So I

2:47:27think we need to work through like

2:47:28either way it goes. We have to figure

2:47:30out how we're going to move forward with

2:47:31this bill moves for becoming law if it

2:47:33becomes law.

2:47:35>> Thank you. Okay. So I think

2:47:39this is where I think we are for

2:47:40immediate next steps. Um I'm just

2:47:42looking I do not believe we will all be

2:47:45together again, all of us, for a work

2:47:48session until the first work session of

2:47:49December. I'm just saying that. Um, so I

2:47:55I'm just giving the timeline if we're

2:47:57going to have a full council discussion.

2:47:58I I have two um people's schedules in

2:48:03front of me. Um [laughter]

2:48:06uh well that's October and we were

2:48:08saying at least November. Yeah. So

2:48:12um well I was just saying do we want to

2:48:13bring this conversation back? There was

2:48:15a question around do we bring it back to

2:48:17the full when all seven of us are here

2:48:19and the next opportunity where all seven

2:48:21of us are here at least my understanding

2:48:24is the first uh work session in December

2:48:26which is um December 10th is that

2:48:31correct? Yes, December 10th. So just

2:48:33from that standpoint, um

2:48:37that is the next time all seven of us

2:48:39will um be together um unless something

2:48:44changes. So that's one. Two, I

2:48:47definitely want to have a conversation

2:48:48with the mayor to see if um I hear

2:48:50certain council colleagues saying they

2:48:52would like to move forward ahead of what

2:48:55staff is is um sharing that they need a

2:48:58little bit more time before they can

2:48:59really bring a policy uh forward to us.

2:49:02I'm hearing two council members saying

2:49:05maybe we move ahead. Uh council member

2:49:07Copek, you're looking at me like maybe

2:49:08you want to say something, but I'm not

2:49:10sure. Okay, go ahead.

2:49:14I was curious uh wanted to ask the

2:49:16manager about reasonable timing because

2:49:20I wouldn't want to bring it back to have

2:49:22a process conversation, but I'm

2:49:23wondering is early December within the

2:49:25realm of reason to come back with a

2:49:27draft policy so then we're responding to

2:49:31something that's coming from staff that

2:49:32has our input that you've collected over

2:49:34time.

2:49:36>> Early would want to uh uh discuss with

2:49:39staff. Uh I have not I don't have uh

2:49:42input from the staff who'd have to

2:49:43develop that policy. I believe we have

2:49:45at least at least do two departments,

2:49:47but but probably many more than that

2:49:49that we'd want to convene. So while I'd

2:49:51be happy to get you a a proposed

2:49:54timeline on when that would look like,

2:49:56um I do not I can't answer that today.

2:50:02Are folks comfortable with manager

2:50:05Ferguson going and having a conversation

2:50:07with staff and then maybe just sending

2:50:09us an email with a potential time that

2:50:11they feel they could come back and then

2:50:13that at least lets us realize that okay

2:50:16we might be having this conversation in

2:50:18early December anyway because of what

2:50:20staff is saying are folks at least

2:50:21comfortable with that.

2:50:24Can I get a thumbs up or down? Or if you

2:50:27want to speak, go ahead council.

2:50:28>> Timeline on when we would get that email

2:50:31when

2:50:33[laughter]

2:50:33>> I don't know that either

2:50:35>> until I ask, you know, so just for the

2:50:37issues I raised today, I I think there's

2:50:40really two two things I need to find

2:50:42out. one. So I I do not as I indicated I

2:50:47don't think it is the the workload of

2:50:49creating a policy that that is really

2:50:52the the

2:50:54um uncertainty that I have. It is the

2:50:57the ability to implement the policy. So

2:50:59to my previous comments, you know, my

2:51:01main concern right now is I believe we

2:51:04are still building the plane that we

2:51:06want to fly. Uh and that you guys are

2:51:08going to look at a policy that you want

2:51:10to fly and I want to make sure the plane

2:51:12can can can fly in the direction you

2:51:15want it to. So the questions I need to

2:51:17ask staff are not just how long does it

2:51:19take to to draft a policy, which I

2:51:21suspect could happen fairly quickly, but

2:51:24should we work on a certain timeline to

2:51:26bring that forward? Are we do we think

2:51:28we will be in a place at that point in

2:51:30the implementation of the master plan in

2:51:32the capacity development areas that

2:51:34we're working on to to be able to commit

2:51:37to that policy should council move

2:51:39quickly. So those are the questions I

2:51:41need to ask which is why to council

2:51:42member Cook's question I I I I I suspect

2:51:46I can get an answer to those questions

2:51:49and some high level thinking in a short

2:51:52order in in you know within the next

2:51:54three or four working days I could get a

2:51:57response to council and then that

2:51:59response may or may not be a short or a

2:52:03a moderate time frame. So thank you

2:52:06>> council member Baker and then council

2:52:08member Copac. Do we just want to add

2:52:11some time to the next work session? And

2:52:13and will everyone be here at the next

2:52:15work session?

2:52:16>> I'm looking right now.

2:52:17>> I I don't have I haven't heard any from

2:52:18anybody that there's going to be an

2:52:20absence. No, I know.